Log for #openttd on 28th December 2007:
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00:00:09  <Gonozal_VIII> sorry^^
00:00:19  <Bjarni> sorry?
00:00:22  <Bjarni> but I blame Sacro
00:00:38  <Bjarni> NL is to the south
00:00:42  <Bjarni> of me
00:00:45  <Sacro> Bjarni used to be netherlandian
00:00:46  <Sacro> :(
00:00:54  <Bjarni> no I didn't :P
00:01:02  <Sacro> he was nice back then
00:01:04  <Gonozal_VIII> dutch is nl :S
00:01:04  <Bjarni> you made that up
00:01:09  <Sacro> but he moved to denmark
00:01:12  <Sacro> and now is evil :(
00:01:12  <Gonozal_VIII> that's strange
00:01:33  <Bjarni> The country's real name is "The Netherlands"
00:01:42  <Gonozal_VIII> i know that
00:01:54  <Bjarni> we tend to call it "Holland" (which is only like 1/5 of the country)
00:02:03  <Bjarni> I don't know why the language is called Dutch though
00:02:10  <Gonozal_VIII> holland and niederlande...
00:02:38  <qball> holland?
00:02:39  <Bjarni> but I guess there is a historical link to Deutsch
00:02:50  <qball> that's where the crazy dutch live
00:03:04  <Bjarni> yeah
00:03:13  <Bjarni> they use DC in their catenary
00:03:17  <Bjarni> so they have to be crazy
00:03:29  <Bjarni> but that goes for the rest of the Dutch as well :P
00:03:40  <qball> atleast they don't have problems with blind-power
00:03:54  <Bjarni> blind-power?
00:04:18  <qball> yes.. you get that with AC and imaginary impedance
00:04:36  <Bjarni> ahh... you mean when the power factor isn't 1
00:04:44  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought dutch was for denmark.. fits better than netherlands
00:05:02  <qball> also the next high-voltage power line under the sea from norway is going to be DC too..   DC->dc and DC->AC is good now
00:05:06  <Bjarni> so did the Czech translator
00:05:19  <qball> don't need trafo's anymore
00:05:27  <qball> anyway 1.5kV is crazy
00:05:29  <Bjarni> so yes I found an error in czech.txt
00:05:52  <Bjarni> we use 25 kV
00:05:53  <qball> yet the crazy people manage the most trains/km rail
00:05:58  <qball> in the world
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00:06:10  <qball> 25kV is more sane yes
00:06:19  <Gonozal_VIII> i read somewhere that dc is better for long distance because of lower power loss percentage
00:06:29  <qball> it is
00:06:40  <Bjarni> that's both correct and incorrect at the same time
00:07:04  <Bjarni> using an ideal line (copper without insulation) it shouldn't matter
00:07:06  <qball> now that we can efficient transfor low voltage to high voltage
00:07:08  <Gonozal_VIII> and they want to build large solar parks in africa and dc cables to supply europe with that power
00:07:24  <qball> Bjarni: if the world was ideal..
00:07:31  <Bjarni> in reality there are always a bit of capacity and capacity is power loss for AC, but not DC
00:07:56  <qball> why do you think your processor gets so darn hot
00:08:05  <qball> parasites
00:08:33  <Bjarni> because for every clock pulse there is a short circuit
00:08:46  <Gonozal_VIII> the processor gets hot when you look at too much p0rn
00:09:07  <qball> you need to charge/uncharge all the parasite capacitances all the damn time
00:09:12  <qball> at very high speed
00:10:42  <qball> say every transistor has a 1pF capacitance, you need to charge/discharge every clock cycle (say 3.2 Ghz)
00:10:45  <qball> do the math
00:10:54  <Bjarni> think of it like this: there is a pin and it can either have 0 V or 3,3 V. It has two transistors (one for each voltage). Now we have say 0 and we switch to 3,3. Because the transistors open a bit faster than they close they will have a very brief moment where both are open and you have a direct connection between 0V and 3,3V power supply (only though two transistors)
00:11:06  <qball> aah no-perfect matching
00:11:07  <qball> also fun
00:11:15  <Bjarni> yeah
00:11:24  <Bjarni> that actually matters more than capacity
00:11:47  <qball> I dunno what is worse now-a-days
00:12:05  <qball> I can imagine with voltage dropping and with smaller transistors
00:12:10  <qball> the capacitances are less trouble some
00:12:13  <qball> on the other hand
00:12:16  <qball> your lines
00:12:20  <qball> don't get shorter
00:13:01  <qball> a well in a few years, we all use pig-brains in our computer
00:13:31  <Gonozal_VIII> or human brains
00:13:32  <Bjarni> I read not long ago that somebody actually found a way to make the matching better and that the chip manufactures are investing in maturing the idea into a production stage. This would mean way lower power usage and way lower heat production and since the biggest issue for increasing CPU speed is the heat then it would mean faster CPUs
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00:14:12  <Bjarni> and less noise from fans cooling the CPUs
00:14:30  * Sacro hums
00:15:00  <qball> would be nice for audio devices too..  cheaper high-quality amps
00:15:23  <Bjarni> I don't think it works that way
00:15:36  <Bjarni> it's based on chip design
00:15:40  <qball> owh
00:15:41  <qball> damn
00:15:46  <Sacro> tum te tum
00:15:53  <Sacro> Bjarni: how was your christmas?
00:15:57  <Bjarni> so it's only on very little scale
00:16:02  <qball> because its one of the things that make good amps expensive, buying matched transistors
00:16:05  <qball> for the push-pull
00:16:26  <qball> still good matching is very very important in DA-AD converters
00:16:36  <qball> so maby intel can make soundcards that go above 14bits
00:16:53  <qball> stupid HDA things
00:16:58  <Bjarni> but if you use a digital amp then it might matter... however the digital part isn't the major heat producing part so I don't think it will matter much
00:17:12  <qball> wasn't talking about heat here
00:17:16  <Bjarni> Sacro: <--- was?
00:17:24  <Bjarni> Christmas is more than just Christmas eve
00:17:30  <qball> and digi amp is mostly juck.
00:17:56  <qball> you need a bad-ass filter to get rid off high-frequenties
00:18:25  <Bjarni> many companies makes poor digital amps and it gives a bad name to the few who actually makes good ones
00:18:59  <qball> there are good ones, but that aint cheap to build either
00:19:14  <Bjarni> I know
00:19:31  <Bjarni> but they are relatively small compared to what they can do
00:19:47  <Bjarni> smaller than analogue amps of the same quality
00:19:50  <Bjarni> and power
00:19:51  <qball> yes
00:20:01  <qball> 80% efficientie, try that with analog
00:20:16  <Bjarni> I wouldn't even try
00:20:33  <qball> well better matching of transister will make your class B more efficient.. but not even close
00:21:14  <qball> anyway, night time is the right time
00:21:17  <qball> for sleep
00:21:43  <Bjarni> the inventor of the real digital amp told that when they tested it on a record company one guy thought that he could hear an error on a specific place so they tried the same tape with a professional analogue amp and the error was gone.... not good
00:22:08  <Bjarni> turned out that there was an error on the tape but the analogue amp lacked precision to make it reach the speakers
00:22:44  <qball> he lol
00:23:00  <Bjarni> he is actually a nice guy
00:23:06  * qball still needs the room for electrostats.
00:23:12  <qball> or how you spell that
00:23:17  <Bjarni> met him once
00:23:38  <Bjarni> at uni
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00:32:40  <Gonozal_VIII> there are many copies
00:32:44  <Gonozal_VIII> and they have a plan
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00:48:40  <Bjarni> huh?
00:48:42  <Bjarni> copies?
00:48:44  <Bjarni> plan?
00:48:49  <Bjarni> you plan to copy me?
00:49:04  <Gonozal_VIII> not me
00:49:07  <Gonozal_VIII> the cylons
00:49:26  <Bjarni> ???
00:49:36  <Bjarni> are we speaking the same language?
00:49:39  <Gonozal_VIII> battlestar galactica :-)
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00:51:18  <Bjarni> never seen it
00:51:25  <Gonozal_VIII> you should
00:52:22  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:54:54  <Belugas> what kind of amps where you talking about?
00:55:07  <Gonozal_VIII> winamp
00:55:42  <Belugas> i know, from live experience, that an all tube amp for guitar is far better than a transistor one
00:55:53  <Belugas> ho... winamp... no se
00:59:02  <TX> hi all
00:59:42  <TX> maybe anyone speaks russian?
01:00:57  <Bjarni> TX: there might be a fair change that you do ;)
01:01:20  <Bjarni>  <Belugas> what kind of amps where you talking about? <-- different kinds... kind of like all kinds
01:01:23  <TX> ))
01:01:39  <TX> can anyone help me?... my game lags on bigger maps, especially if i have a lot of objects   or it hangs some times so much, that i even can't move my mouse cursore smothely
01:01:43  <TX> is it ok?
01:02:05  <Bjarni> err
01:02:15  <Bjarni> considering you can't play like that then no
01:02:28  <TX> 99% cpu
01:02:52  <Bjarni> sounds like you play on a too big map for your CPU to handle
01:02:53  <Gonozal_VIII> do you use ships?
01:03:02  <TX> 2048x2048
01:03:13  <TX> I'm on making scenario
01:03:16  <Gonozal_VIII> yapf pathfinder for ships can suck a lot of cpu
01:03:19  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
01:03:28  <Gonozal_VIII> no vehicles?
01:03:29  <TX> but when I try to start  it lugs
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01:03:36  <Bjarni> how fast is your CPU?
01:03:38  <TX> just on starting
01:03:48  <TX> celeron 2.7
01:03:49  <Gonozal_VIII> 99% cpu on 2048^2 without vehicles is strange
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01:04:35  <TX> when I'm in edition scenario  everything OK  but when try to start this scenario  I get 99%
01:04:53  <Bjarni> you shouldn't do that
01:05:01  <Bjarni> hmm
01:05:17  <TX> I did random industries..  without them I get fast start   with them - I get 99%
01:05:24  <TX> ecs
01:05:26  <Gonozal_VIII> aaah
01:05:28  <Bjarni> so you get this on a 2048x2048 map with no vehicles at all?
01:05:29  <Gonozal_VIII> that's normal
01:05:41  <Gonozal_VIII> industry generation with ecs takes very, very long
01:05:48  <TX> just on starting 1920 I get cpu 99
01:06:01  <TX> yes and it makes me a lot of them ))
01:06:12  <Bjarni> are you talking about map generation or actually playing?
01:06:23  <TX>
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01:06:55  <Gonozal_VIII> you can read that?
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01:07:27  <TX> when I tried to start playing I get 99% cpu    when  i'm editing scenario - ok
01:07:35  <Gonozal_VIII> you have way too many industries there
01:08:38  <Gonozal_VIII> but they are ecs, so most of them will close down soon anyways... keep on playing some more years and the game should become faster
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01:09:11  <TX> ok even I remove them  then playin I reach that amount of objects (with trains, vehicles) anâ 99% I get again some time later?
01:09:28  <TX> any way
01:09:40  <Gonozal_VIII> you can use a smaller map
01:09:57  <TX> maybe there is any trics or graphic patch for this situation?
01:10:29  <Gonozal_VIII> it's not the graphic's fault, it's all the background calculations
01:10:40  <TX> ??
01:11:06  <Gonozal_VIII> the industries calculate their production, supply, closedown chance and things like that
01:12:14  <Gonozal_VIII> and lots of random stuff going on with trees and in the cities
01:12:34  <TX> hm.. so small game and requires so much of cpu ))
01:14:08  <Gonozal_VIII> 2048^2 is huge.. that's over 4 million tiles that have to be calculated about 30 times per second
01:14:31  <TX> I guessed that's a common problem and everybody faces it someday  and maybe it requies patch or new program engine with new algoritme?
01:15:27  <Gonozal_VIII> just think about it... would you ever be able to connect everything on that map? do you really need so much?
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01:27:18  <Gonozal_VIII> and back...
01:28:55  <TX> I didn't understand your question 'bout overlap
01:29:25  <TX>  here now
01:29:27  <Gonozal_VIII> the text in your screenshot
01:29:46  <Gonozal_VIII> in the industry map
01:30:03  <TX> ))
01:30:25  <TX> yep it is a problem  cause a lot of industries
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01:31:16  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: nothing seems 'wrong' about the fontsize, he has just adjusted it in his openttd.cfg
01:31:41  <Gonozal_VIII> ah, that's not the default, i see
01:34:13  <TX> hm )) I removed 50 fishing from seas (in scenario) and already get 90%cpu (not 99)))) when started game
01:34:33  <Gonozal_VIII> that's better
01:34:34  <TX> i'm in right direction )
01:35:07  <Gonozal_VIII> with ecs industries that are not serviced will close down after some years
01:35:28  <Gonozal_VIII> they are protected for the first 5-10 years but after that most of them will close down
01:36:44  <TX> )) cource 2048 map I cannot reach to all industries at once )
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01:37:37  <Gonozal_VIII> that's not a problem, there will be new ones at random and you can connect them as they show up
01:37:44  <TX> would be any problems to multiplay this scenario using server?
01:37:59  <Gonozal_VIII> yes it would be
01:38:23  <TX> ((
01:38:26  <Gonozal_VIII> if not all players can keep up with the speed there will be desyncs
01:38:58  <Gonozal_VIII> and it's also a lot of data that has to be downloaded in order to join
01:39:06  <TX> speed? connection?
01:39:15  <Gonozal_VIII> cpu speed
01:39:20  <TX> desyncs?
01:39:32  <TX> discon?
01:39:56  <Gonozal_VIII> if the game state is different on the server and a client, the client is out of sync and disconnects
01:40:30  <Gonozal_VIII> that could happen if the cpu is not fast enough
01:40:59  <TX> server's cpu or clients? or each?
01:41:05  <Gonozal_VIII> each
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01:41:36  <Gonozal_VIII> every cpu has to be able to run the game at the intended speed
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01:42:55  <TX> and what happens  when one has core2duo, other like me just celeron 2.7 ?
01:43:18  <Gonozal_VIII> dual core doesn't help, openttd only uses one core
01:43:32  <TX> mmm )
01:43:43  <TX> so we'll be equal ))
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01:44:19  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: desyncs are NOT caused by too slow computers
01:44:31  <Rubidium> desyncs will never be caused by too slow computers
01:44:45  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm
01:44:46  <Rubidium> that the client gets disconnected is something completely different
01:44:49  <glx> but the too slow client will be kicked
01:44:58  <glx> that's all
01:45:43  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, desync is the random seed stuff... but it doesn't really matter too slow cpu doesn't work
01:46:02  <Rubidium> a desync only happens when the game state at frame X at the server differs from the game state at frame X at the clients, even though the clients might reach frame X seconds after several seconds
01:46:27  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: the problem is that too slow CPUs must not be intermingled with desyncs
01:46:48  <Gonozal_VIII> ok sorry... forget what i said
01:47:13  <Rubidium> because desyncs == bug in OpenTTD (or memory corruptions) and disconnects caused by a too slow computer are something we (OpenTTD developers) can do nothing about
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01:47:58  <strstrep> glx: Is there anything I can still help you with on FS#1561 — desync when building primary industry?
01:48:40  <Bjarni> blaming disconnects caused by a too slow connection/computer on the developers would be like blaming a taxi driver for arriving late during a traffic jam
01:48:44  <glx> strstrep: I still fail to build openttd in pearpc (with OpenDarwin)
01:48:45  <Bjarni> he can't do shit about it
01:49:49  <Gonozal_VIII> anyways, 2048^2 map on multiplayer could work... but only with fast pcs for all clients and i wouldn't do it because you could get problems when the game is the most fun and have to start over then
01:50:22  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: just put the slower as server
01:50:31  <Bjarni> generally big maps on their own shouldn't need more network traffic than small maps
01:50:39  <Gonozal_VIII> then everything runs slow and laggy and not nice...
01:50:51  <Bjarni> but nobody will disconnect
01:51:12  <Gonozal_VIII> i wasn't thinking about network traffic but about cpu usage
01:52:10  <Gonozal_VIII> he runs at >90% cpu on a new map without vehicles, i wouldn't play multiplayer that way
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01:55:32  <Bjarni> I wouldn't play that way at all
01:55:53  <Bjarni> imagine what it will be like if 10% of the industries are connected by railroad
01:55:59  <Bjarni> anyway
01:56:01  <Bjarni> time for bed
01:56:02  <Bjarni> goodnight
01:56:20  <Gonozal_VIII> on singleplayer you can switch on fast forward and the game will run slower^^
01:56:41  <Bjarni> huh?
01:56:45  <Bjarni> slower?
01:57:06  <Gonozal_VIII> yes... i had that when cpu was at full load
01:57:20  <Gonozal_VIII> fast forward... slower game
01:57:21  <Bjarni> the game runs a single loop and then waits for the time to pass to start the next loop. Fast Forward just skips the waiting time
01:57:26  <Bjarni> shouldn't slow down anything at all
01:58:17  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know... maybe it started the next loop before last was finished or something
01:58:26  <TX> anyone remember since what year appears big airports?
01:58:27  <Bjarni> the game is single threaded
01:58:36  <Bjarni> no actions can overtake each other
01:58:56  <Bjarni> anyway I'm heading for bed
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01:59:38  <Gonozal_VIII> no tx but a fast way to find out various introduction dates is to start a new singleplayer game and cheat the time up until what you're waiting for is available
02:00:54  <TX> I just wanna know  cause when I make scenario  I make some place near the cities to place then airports
02:01:11  <TX> ))
02:01:37  <strstrep> glx: Actually, you might be able to reproduce the problem on the same architecture with different optimization levels.
02:02:04  <strstrep> glx: Or a different compiler: icc and gcc.
02:02:16  <glx> I have gcc and msvc
02:02:38  <strstrep> glx: And it doesn't cause a desync between them?
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02:04:43  <TX> what can cause this signs "??"
02:05:21  <glx> grf conflict most likely
02:06:25  <Gonozal_VIII> you've got lots of bridge grfs there
02:07:08  <Gonozal_VIII> more isn't always better
02:08:33  <TX> I don't know what to get from this grf  to have bigger choice
02:08:50  <TX> can U suggest yours?
02:09:23  <Gonozal_VIII> mine...
02:09:25  <Gonozal_VIII>
02:09:33  <Gonozal_VIII> those are the grfs i use
02:11:28  <Gonozal_VIII> only newbridgesW for bridges there
02:11:48  <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. viaduct
02:15:09  <glx> strstrep: nice I can get desync locally \o/
02:15:20  <SmatZ> glx: impressive
02:15:40  <glx> msvc release vs gcc debug level 3
02:16:15  <TX> pb_bridg.grf  bad?
02:16:16  <SmatZ> glx: when you disassemble the code, are the calls to Random() in different order?
02:16:29  <glx> didn't check yet
02:16:51  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know tx
02:17:22  <Gonozal_VIII> but the pb stuff is usually not bad
02:19:05  <Gonozal_VIII> it took me a long time of experimenting to find the right combination of grfs that work together without problems and look good in my opinion
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02:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> Gonozal_VIII: btw. 3 quotes define a multi-line string, not a comment
02:37:23  <Gonozal_VIII> what's the difference?
02:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> strings are part of the resulting program
02:37:41  <Gonozal_VIII> ah i see
02:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> comments are stripped in the parsing phase
02:38:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you look at
02:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have provided an example file
02:38:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> there i use a multi-line string for the GRF-description
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02:43:19  <Gonozal_VIII> it's a good start
02:44:11  <Gonozal_VIII> the huge ammont of keywords needs an interface
02:45:41  <Gonozal_VIII> well... or a good documentation
02:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have the file ;)
02:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> btw. from a programming language point of view, only "class" is a reserved word, the others are all identifiers
02:47:54  <Gonozal_VIII> i could probably write a java thingy that reads the .py file and extracts the keywords and hex stuff and generates buttons/tabs/dropdowns out of that..
02:48:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> or you could write a python thingie that just imports the file and accesses...
02:48:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> or you can use python bindings for java ;)
02:48:47  <Gonozal_VIII> no because i can't pythonify^^
02:49:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> java is bad anyway
02:49:50  <Gonozal_VIII> but but but.. java...
02:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> what's cool about python is the string-literals, list-literals and dictionary-literals
02:50:28  <Gonozal_VIII> why is it bad? seems to be ideal for that task... doesn't need installation and runs everywhere
02:51:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> python is ideal for rapid prototyping
02:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> which is what i do here
02:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> java is really bloaty when it comes to "just write up a small script"
02:52:19  <Gonozal_VIII> i only know java so i can't compare that
02:53:08  <Gonozal_VIII> and i have no idea how to compile or use python
02:53:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> download python, open a command line, run the command i wrote
02:54:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> python is usually interpreted, not compiled
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03:01:19  * kyevan laughs at the page on Kid Icarus music
03:01:23  <kyevan> "In terms of music, I think the most memorable themes for players were the Grim Reaper theme and the Game Over theme." <- The former because the REapers are so annoying, the latter because you hear it so damn often >_>
03:01:35  <kyevan> Eh, wrongchan, but still true
03:10:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no idea what this is about...
03:10:29  <Gonozal_VIII> some game
03:15:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11713 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Move some declarations and definitions in a more logical disposition
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03:45:48  <Belugas> is it possible to start a game by loading a scenario in console mode?
03:46:09  <glx> openttd -g
03:47:58  <kyevan> openttd needs a nethack renderer :P
03:48:03  <Belugas> no, sorry... i mean in ottd, in the consol mode, the ~ state
03:48:18  <Belugas> a command stuff...
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03:48:46  <glx> load should do it IIRC
03:48:58  <Belugas> ok
03:49:15  <Belugas> and -g only load games, cannot load scenarios, right?
03:50:46  <Belugas> "load" command does not seems to be able to load a scenario
03:50:53  <Gonozal_VIII> rename it
03:50:54  <Belugas> that's nice :)
03:53:00  <kyevan> I want scripted scenarios
03:53:15  <kyevan> So disasters and other events can occur at whatever random times are needed.
03:54:03  <Gonozal_VIII> sounds like an addition to noai branch
03:54:40  <glx> -g can load everything
03:54:55  <glx> try openttd -g data/opntitle.dat
03:55:30  <kyevan> openttd -g /dev/urandom
03:55:46  <glx> not a valid "savegame"
03:56:06  <Gonozal_VIII> could be^^
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03:56:21  <kyevan> glx: It's random, it could be :P
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03:57:19  <Eddi|zuHause> err... what was that...
03:57:21  <Belugas> :(
03:57:32  <Gonozal_VIII> [04:56:06] *** Eddi|zuHause2 has signed off IRC (Remote host closed the connection).
03:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, my x server crashed
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04:01:15  <kyevan> They do that disturbingly often
04:01:27  <Belugas> i cannot handle -g :(
04:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause> my x rarely crashes...
04:03:45  <kyevan> Sure, but take a sample of 50 random users, you're going to get at least 1 or two crashes a day.
04:04:52  <Eddi|zuHause> that equals one crash every 50 days, so that is not really often...
04:05:31  <kyevan> For such a centeral bit of software, it feels like it is.
04:05:56  <kyevan> Then again, on windows, you get more. I dunno why you feel like it should be less on unixoids running x, but it does
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04:21:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11714 /trunk/src/ (fios.h misc_gui.cpp network/network_gui.cpp openttd.cpp):
04:21:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix[FS#1569]: Do not allow player inauguration date on scenarios to be bigger than current year.
04:21:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: This will not (yet) be true if you are loading a scenario with the "-g" command line option.
04:25:17  * Belugas goes to sleep
04:25:26  * Belugas is tired
04:25:37  <Gonozal_VIII> me too
04:25:45  <Gonozal_VIII> night
04:26:06  <Gonozal_VIII> (me too for the tired thing)
04:26:08  <Eddi|zuHause> but... it's not even 5:30 AM
04:26:16  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm not going to sleep yet
04:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause>
04:27:16  <Gonozal_VIII> yay xkcd
04:27:31  <Eddi|zuHause> this one is so great :p
04:27:50  <Gonozal_VIII> one of the best comics i know
04:30:25  <murray> ^^
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05:51:11  <Gonozal_VIII> is it late yet?
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07:32:15  <caibrenden> hello?
07:32:54  <caibrenden> anyone a dev?
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09:50:59  <LA[Lord]> hey dih
09:52:29  <dihedral> :-)
09:52:34  <dihedral> allo
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09:56:57  <LA[Lord]> I won't ask THAT question right now because I seem to know answer :D
09:59:12  <qball> don't believe it
10:00:51  <LA[Lord]> don't believe what?
10:01:01  <qball> that you know the answer
10:01:38  <LA[Lord]> I know it because I have asked it already twice from dihedral :P
10:01:57  <LA[Lord]> and he has answered both times
10:03:06  <dihedral> sounds like that is about wwottdgd :-P
10:03:07  <qball> the fact that you know something real feels wrong
10:03:28  <LA[Lord]> dih, I told you I won't ask ::P
10:03:47  <LA[Lord]> qball, I'm a man of mysteries :P
10:04:07  <dihedral> at least he's a man :-P
10:04:27  <qball> well an empty ton that is closed, so you cannot look into it can be mysteries too
10:04:28  <dihedral> but the 'of mysteries' part sounds like a touch of feminin genes are around
10:04:35  <LA[Lord]> :D'
10:04:38  <qball> if somebody suggest there might be something in there
10:05:03  <dihedral> qball: there is a story behind my nick.... uh.... mystery
10:05:13  <LA[Lord]> not so much
10:05:18  <LA[Lord]> I know it :P
10:05:22  <dihedral> :-P
10:05:49  * LA[Lord] slaps daihiiiiidrel
10:06:13  * qball check his care-o-meter, it points to -1
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10:49:42  <pavel1269> hi
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12:17:21  <qball> wth.. pre-signalling is failing
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12:17:54  <qball> Bjarni: odd problem
12:18:30  <qball> where are ingame screenshots stored?
12:18:48  <Bjarni> ~/Documents/OpenTTD/
12:18:59  <Bjarni> at least that is where I intend to place them ;)
12:19:01  <qball> that does not consist
12:19:14  <qball> what is the default for openttd
12:19:20  <peter__> ~/.openttd/
12:19:30  <Bjarni> next to openttd.cfg
12:19:44  <dihedral> Bjarni: check the poll :-)
12:19:45  <Bjarni> are you saying that you want me to test this right away?
12:19:59  <Bjarni> dihedral: I just replied in it so I guess I read it ;)
12:20:11  * Bjarni wonders if the poll was a mistake
12:20:14  <qball> Transport%2c 12th Apr 1971.png <-- train tries to enter first platform
12:20:17  <qball> yet signals are ok
12:20:29  <dihedral> Bjarni: why?
12:20:38  <Bjarni> there are around 25% votes on each option (nobody agrees)
12:20:55  <dihedral> yeah - just wait a little longer :-P
12:20:56  <Bjarni> and people reply that they want to make the file handling system more complex than it already is
12:21:10  <dihedral> yes - they are missing the point of the question
12:21:19  <dihedral> as it's about the OpenTTD folder and not it's subfolders
12:22:28  <qball> WTF do the train want to enter a full platform
12:22:51  <Belugas> Bjarni, wait at least a week ;)
12:23:41  <qball> can anybody look at above screenshot and tell me what is wrong
12:23:50  <dihedral> qball: are all rails there electric
12:24:06  <dihedral> and all station platforms?
12:24:13  <qball> that could be.. hard to see
12:24:16  <qball> let me try
12:24:22  <Bjarni> qball: you need two way signals on the entrance side
12:24:24  <dihedral> use the 'convert' tool
12:24:27  <qball> Bjarni: no
12:24:33  <qball> Bjarni: it was the elec
12:24:35  <qball> so hard to see
12:24:56  <dihedral> Bjarni: you dont really, as it should use the next free possible option, unless it is not supposed to service that station
12:25:27  <Bjarni> we fixed that issue?
12:25:31  <Bjarni> cool
12:25:39  <peter__> qball, especially when it's transparent...
12:26:06  <qball> withouth it, it's hard to see in stations too
12:26:18  <roboboy> the doubles were fixed with NPF and maybe NTP
12:27:28  <dihedral> Bjarni: if you do that for say tunnels or bridges, then you will need 2 way :-)
12:31:25  <roboboy> wheres this thread you guys were talking about with the poll by the way
12:32:00  <Eddi|zuHause> in the forum :p
12:32:59  <SmatZ> qball: has the train that station in orders?
12:33:20  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: he already solved it, missing electric tile
12:33:21  <SmatZ> what pathfinder are you using?
12:33:23  <SmatZ> aha
12:33:25  <SmatZ> ok :)
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12:35:58  <roboboy> whats the title and which openttd forum
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12:49:12  <Smoky555> hi all :)
12:50:23  <Smoky555> did riversw.grf (by michael blunck) work in OpenTTD?
12:50:48  <Eddi|zuHause> unlikely...
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12:59:35  <dihedral> roboboy: just LOOK in the forums for OpenTTD
12:59:40  <dihedral> it's pretty much at the top
12:59:47  <roboboy> ok
13:00:09  <roboboy> found it
13:00:33  * dihedral claps his hands
13:00:41  <dihedral> well done!
13:00:42  <roboboy> Bjarn just posted in it (typo to not highlight)
13:01:10  <dihedral> whats wrong with highlighting Bjarni ?
13:01:13  <dihedral> :-P
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13:07:50  <dihedral> thanks Bjarni
13:07:59  <dihedral> really appreciate that :-)
13:08:12  <roboboy> youl get kicked if you highlight him
13:08:13  <dihedral> TrueBrain was the last one to kick me from here for fun
13:08:16  <Bjarni> I do what I can to spread happiness
13:08:23  <dihedral> :-)
13:08:28  *** dihedral was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [looks like this is an easy way to do it]
13:08:33  *** dihedral [] has joined #openttd
13:08:43  * roboboy laughs
13:08:52  * dihedral slaps roboboy
13:08:55  <dihedral> :-P
13:09:01  <Bjarni> he said he liked it in his own weird way
13:09:01  * roboboy runs
13:09:15  <dihedral> i get kicked, roboboy gets slapped
13:09:16  <dihedral> :-P
13:09:24  <roboboy> lol
13:09:28  <roboboy> !stats
13:09:36  <dihedral>
13:09:42  <dihedral> :-P
13:09:49  <roboboy> are there stats for in here
13:09:54  <Bjarni> hmm
13:09:54  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
13:09:54  <dihedral> !logs
13:10:11  <Bjarni> imagine making a script that kicks everybody who says lol
13:10:13  <dihedral> but there are no direct stats if i am not mistaken
13:10:19  <dihedral> lol
13:10:28  *** dihedral was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [testing script]
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13:10:36  * dihedral slaps roboboy
13:10:45  <dihedral> sorry roboboy
13:10:45  <Bjarni> there is a stats page
13:10:56  <dihedral> but i cannot slap Bjarni
13:11:03  <pavel1269> :D
13:11:04  <Bjarni> the question is.... what is the URL?
13:11:13  <roboboy> truebrain used to do them if I remember corectly
13:11:16  <dihedral>
13:11:41  <Bjarni> but we have two pages
13:11:47  <Bjarni> one for each person making the stats
13:12:21  <dihedral> google for openttd stats
13:12:33  <dihedral>
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13:13:11  <Bjarni> yeah
13:13:14  <roboboy> freenode not OFTC dihedral
13:13:15  <Bjarni> I'm first
13:13:31  <Bjarni> talking about porting OpenTTD
13:13:35  <dihedral> roboboy: that is a title, that has not been changed
13:13:47  <dihedral> nothing else
13:13:48  <roboboy> laughs out loud twice
13:13:55  <roboboy> I know that
13:13:58  * dihedral slaps roboboy - twice
13:14:10  <dihedral> :-P
13:14:16  <roboboy> what I avoided being kicked by the l o l script
13:14:18  <Bjarni> Most referenced nick
13:14:19  <Bjarni> i
13:14:36  <dihedral> Bjarni: you want to op me temporarily so i can...
13:14:39  <dihedral> spread some joy?
13:14:41  <Bjarni> looks like somebody decided to be named i and the script thinks that we talk about him all the time
13:14:51  <Bjarni> dihedral: no
13:14:57  <dihedral> spoil sport :-P
13:15:07  <Bjarni> totally :D
13:15:21  <dihedral> @kick roboboy
13:15:32  *** dihedral was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [you aren't allowed to say that]
13:15:58  <glx> Bjarni: you did it IIRC
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13:16:13  <Bjarni> did what?
13:16:16  * roboboy is smart
13:16:20  <glx> rename to I
13:16:27  <Bjarni> oh
13:16:28  <Bjarni> right
13:16:32  <Bjarni> I think I did
13:16:34  <Bjarni> once
13:16:38  <Bjarni> for a minute or so
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13:16:47  <Bjarni> stupid script :P
13:16:49  * roboboy laughs out loud
13:17:03  <dihedral> stuffes a sock down roboboy throat
13:17:17  <Bjarni> get a room you to
13:17:19  * roboboy spits it out at dihedral
13:17:20  <Bjarni> *two
13:17:26  <dihedral> shush :-P
13:17:29  <Bjarni> arggh
13:17:31  * roboboy shuts up
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13:17:44  <Bjarni> I don't want to know about your fetishes >_<
13:17:51  * dihedral smiles at Bjarni
13:18:00  <Sacro> mmm fetishes
13:18:04  <dihedral> read yesterdays logs to find out about your own
13:18:04  * Bjarni runs away
13:18:05  <Bjarni> bbl
13:18:08  <Bjarni> (maybe)
13:18:17  * dihedral ties Bjarni to a lantern
13:18:30  <Bjarni> I had a fetish yesterday?
13:18:56  <roboboy> this is the most lively ive seen this channel
13:19:02  <qball> Bjarni: yes, we did have a good time
13:19:23  <Bjarni> I think you guys are pulling my leg
13:19:42  <dihedral> 09:56<@Bjarni>I still don't want to get a room with him
13:19:49  <dihedral> that was yesterday at 9.56
13:20:04  <Bjarni> haha
13:20:07  <qball> Bjarni: hmmm you liked getting your legg pulled yesterday
13:20:08  <Bjarni> I was offline at that time
13:20:10  <Bjarni> :P
13:20:12  <dihedral>
13:20:40  <dihedral> qball: i dont want to know what you and Bjarni did
13:20:46  <Bjarni> wtf
13:20:53  <dihedral> 14:20 < qball> Bjarni: hmmm you liked getting your legg pulled yesterday
13:21:02  <Bjarni> wasn't it yesterday where I didn't join until after lunch?
13:21:12  <dihedral> does not look like it
13:21:28  <Bjarni> who tempered with the logs?
13:21:37  * dihedral GRINS
13:21:40  <roboboy> lol
13:21:46  <dihedral> ^ kick
13:21:58  <hylje> NO LOL
13:21:59  <Bjarni> ohh
13:22:02  * roboboy laughs out loud
13:22:07  *** roboboy [] has left #openttd []
13:22:07  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
13:22:07  <dihedral> where we would be back to the leg topic
13:22:08  <Bjarni> now I remember
13:22:15  * hylje pulls Bjarni's leg again
13:22:19  <Bjarni> that wasn't a fetish
13:22:23  <dihedral> careful hylje
13:22:29  <Bjarni> I was trying to get money out of qball
13:22:35  <dihedral> you never know what kind of 'reaction' you'll get out of that
13:22:41  <dihedral> bitch
13:22:43  <dihedral> :-D
13:23:08  *** dihedral was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [big nose smilies are banned]
13:23:19  <Bjarni> new rule ;)
13:23:29  <hylje> how curiously arbitrary
13:23:52  *** dihedral [] has joined #openttd
13:23:58  <Bjarni> bbl
13:24:02  <qball> :^)
13:24:31  * dihedral wonders if Bjarni will leave the channel so he can gossip more about him
13:24:54  * roboboy laughs out loud
13:24:56  <qball> no, he is gettin g
13:25:00  <qball> champange
13:25:05  <qball> for tnoight
13:25:10  <qball> and pink-wine for himself
13:26:10  <dihedral> and will get ready to get his leg pulled
13:26:19  <dihedral> uh - dont want to know about that
13:26:34  <qball> he does not jerk around
13:26:39  <dihedral> or will he tatoo ~/Library/OpenTTD onto his leg?
13:27:01  <dihedral> or ~/Documents/OpenTTD forever
13:27:06  <dihedral> and a heart around it :-P
13:27:15  * dihedral expects a kick...
13:27:37  <qball> he prefers a spank
13:28:24  * dihedral does not want to know why qball knows all this stuff
13:28:44  <qball> Bjarni has a cute sister.
13:28:49  <dihedral> qball: could you repeat that statement but quote the nick rather than using 'he'?
13:29:25  <qball> from what I heard last night, bjarni prefers a spank above a kick.
13:29:32  <qball> atleast, that is what he shouted to his bf
13:30:18  <dihedral> bf?
13:30:23  <dihedral> and who told you?
13:30:30  <qball> well I was with his sis.
13:30:36  <qball> you must keep up
13:30:41  <qball> she did
13:30:57  <dihedral> continue
13:34:54  <dihedral> Bjarni will be really excited to come back and read these lines :-(
13:36:05  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*qball@*] by Bjarni
13:36:13  <Bjarni> you are full of shit
13:36:21  <Bjarni> I don't have a bf
13:36:27  <Bjarni> and you were not with my sister
13:36:57  *** qball [] has left #openttd []
13:36:59  <Bjarni> and you just crossed the line between fun and mighty stupid
13:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause> <dihedral> <- even guru3 's stats think i'm schitzophrenic... i am starting to believe that i really am...
13:38:59  * dihedral apologizes to Bjarni
13:39:12  <guru3> people actually look at the stats :o omg
13:39:16  * guru3 had no idea
13:39:17  <Bjarni> can anybody explain wtf qball was up to?
13:39:31  <dihedral> i think he was just trying to be funny
13:39:39  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe ;)
13:39:41  <dihedral> /trying/
13:39:54  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, it seems to merge Eddi|zuHause and Eddi|zuHause2, but not Eddi|zuHause3
13:40:21  <Bjarni> well... he failed horribly
13:40:33  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, i was being serious
13:40:36  <guru3> i have to add all of those manually
13:40:46  <Bjarni> qball failed at being funny
13:40:48  <guru3> i don't check for high profile double nics very often
13:41:29  <dihedral> Bjarni: i apologize because i beleive to have to some extent triggert that
13:42:29  <Bjarni> maybe
13:42:37  <Bjarni> but he were the stupid part
13:42:52  <Bjarni> your statements could be considered funny
13:42:55  <Bjarni> he was just mean
13:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "triggert" <- is that your german half showing through?
13:43:14  <dihedral> :-)
13:43:19  <dihedral> yep
13:43:21  <dihedral> :-P
13:43:50  <guru3> Eddi|zuHause: on the next update it should take 3 into account
13:43:52  <Bjarni> not to mention that if he really tried to do anything with my sister he would be jailed and/or killed
13:44:25  <Bjarni> most likely beaten up in jail
13:44:31  <dihedral> and first by you?
13:44:33  <dihedral> :-P
13:44:54  <Bjarni> no
13:45:06  <Bjarni> I'm too clever to get myself into problems like that
13:45:10  <Eddi|zuHause> what i find interesting is, that 2 and 3 should be distributed easily, and i only occasionally have no number (e.g. when i restarted), but 3 has not even half the lines
13:46:01  <Bjarni> I will just tell everybody in jail that he is a pedophile.... that's a sure way to be beaten into an unrecoverable state or killed
13:46:19  *** fcs [] has joined #openttd
13:46:32  <guru3> Eddi|zuHause: i have no idea what you're talking about now
13:46:40  *** fcs [] has quit []
13:46:46  <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry
13:47:02  <guru3> ok
13:47:05  <Eddi|zuHause> s/easily/evenly/
13:47:32  <guru3> i do feel a bit sad that i'm no longer in the top 25 of #openttd since it moved to oftc
13:47:40  <guru3> at the same time that can be viewed as a good thing
13:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't remember you speaking during the last year
13:48:22  <guru3> haven't got a lot to say here really -_-
13:48:28  <dihedral> i never knew you were here :-P
13:48:35  <guru3> mostly when people mention the ircstats i pop up
13:48:36  <guru3> if i notice
13:49:12  <guru3> in general though i'm not very good at going out of my way to talk on irc
13:49:18  <Eddi|zuHause> when i saw that link above, i asked myself "what? he is still here?"
13:49:30  <guru3> but if my nic gets hilighted i'll take a look and join in for a bit
13:49:42  <guru3> openttd is a great game, of course i'm her
13:49:44  <guru3> *here
13:49:53  <guru3> it's been what... 3 years now? 4?
13:50:13  <guru3> 4 D:
13:50:26  <guru3> 3.5
13:50:29  <guru3> *phew*
13:50:33  <guru3> (not much better though)
13:51:17  <Bjarni> I knew all the time that you were still here
13:51:24  <Bjarni> I noticed stuff like that
13:51:32  <guru3> finished checking the logs. 3.5 years since i first joined in and 3 years since i've been here pretty much all the time
13:51:36  <Bjarni> like a user list
13:51:37  <guru3> with the advent of 0.3.5
13:51:41  <guru3> i think it was
13:51:50  <guru3> and networked gameplay
13:52:00  <Bjarni> I joined around 0.1.2 or 0.1.3
13:52:07  <Bjarni> finished my port in time for 0.1.4
13:52:20  <Bjarni> and then I just sort of stayed here
13:52:31  <Bjarni> hmm
13:52:32  <guru3> a port... and that's why Bjarni is an op and i'm the guy no one knows who i am
13:52:52  <Bjarni> not true
13:52:56  <Bjarni> I know who you are
13:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a "" from 29 Dez 2005
13:53:00  *** peter__ [~petern@] has joined #openttd
13:53:03  <guru3> who am i? :>
13:53:09  <Bjarni> guru3
13:53:15  <guru3> what did i do?
13:53:41  <Bjarni> you made this fine page where we can track down all the stupid stuff we say in here
13:53:51  <hylje> dezember
13:53:53  * guru3 cries
13:54:00  <Bjarni> but actually I think you did more than that
13:54:04  <Bjarni> but it was a while ago
13:54:05  <guru3> yes... yes...
13:54:11  <guru3> remember!
13:54:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i must have older OTTD than that...
13:54:40  <Bjarni> I think it had something to do with helicopters
13:54:48  <guru3> no... no...
13:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> this was around when i first joined this channel
13:54:56  <Bjarni> then you just talked about it
13:54:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but i had OTTD before
13:55:19  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause> i must have older OTTD than that... <-- I have a checkout of rev 121 of the old svn server... beat that
13:55:28  <guru3> i actually don't remember anything to do with helicopters... ever
13:55:30  <Bjarni> and it was head revision when I checked it out
13:55:41  <Bjarni> hmm
13:55:45  <dihedral> guru3: what did you do then?
13:55:56  * dihedral is curious
13:56:03  <guru3> i... wrote the rcon patch :)
13:56:12  <guru3> (and the banning patch)
13:56:27  <guru3> i wrote a few pages on the wiki about networking
13:56:36  <hylje> in truth you just wanted to ban punks but needed a way to not let just anyone do that
13:56:45  <guru3> and helped found openttdcoop
13:56:53  <dihedral> oh - nice
13:57:02  <guru3> and that's why i'm still here
13:57:09  <guru3> because i had two glorious patches
13:57:10  <hylje> (i have the current ottdc game open)
13:57:18  <guru3> that and the game is awesome
13:57:33  <dihedral> guru3 you still do some coding?
13:57:38  <guru3> not c really
13:57:43  <hylje> what then
13:57:47  <guru3> mostly php now
13:57:48  <Bjarni> hehe... speaking of networking... reminds me of why the server list failed for me and worked for everybody else
13:57:59  <hylje> it hated you?
13:58:02  <hylje> guru3: ow
13:58:13  <guru3> oh yeah has anyone ever used all the stats being collected from the network games to do anything yet?
13:58:19  <Bjarni> turned out that nobody checked endianess in IPs so if the address were my computer tried to connect to
13:58:33  *** prologic [] has joined #openttd
13:58:46  *** prologic [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
13:58:52  <Bjarni> naturally that address didn't respond in the correct way
13:59:10  <Bjarni> kind of annoying until we figured out why and fixed it
13:59:13  <hylje> :o
13:59:19  <guru3> yes, minor issues
13:59:28  <hylje> so is that why there's the silly mixed endianness in that one master server "packet"
13:59:39  <dihedral> guru3: have you seen OpenTTDLib :-P
14:00:03  <guru3> no...
14:00:08  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
14:00:17  <Bjarni> hylje: I don't remember how it was fixed but it ended up working :)
14:00:23  <Bjarni> hmm
14:00:28  <Bjarni> maybe I should unban qball
14:00:38  <Bjarni> I think he got the message by now
14:00:57  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*qball@*] by Bjarni
14:01:46  <guru3> dihedral: nifty
14:01:53  <guru3> i did something in java that did that
14:01:58  <guru3> even gave you the details on all the companies
14:02:00  <Bjarni> java...
14:02:03  <guru3> then promptly lost it
14:02:12  <guru3> well, i'm sure i've got it _somewhere_
14:02:16  <guru3> just i don't know where
14:02:25  <guru3> Bjarni: sue me. I was into java at the time.
14:02:33  <dihedral> click on any of the servers listed in the right hand side bar
14:02:35  <Bjarni> dammit
14:02:42  <Bjarni> can you stop talking about weird fetishes
14:02:47  <guru3> lol\
14:02:50  <guru3> dihedral: i have
14:03:11  <guru3> ohhh you do have the info
14:03:17  <guru3> gotta click on one with companies
14:03:23  <dihedral> :-)
14:03:27  <guru3> 0 of 55 players?
14:03:29  <guru3> is that right?
14:03:47  <dihedral> yep
14:03:49  <dihedral> wwottdgd
14:03:55  <dihedral> dirty patched version
14:03:58  <guru3> that's very interesting
14:03:59  <dihedral> but did the job
14:04:07  <dihedral>
14:04:11  <guru3> what would be fun and impossible would be to send trains across servers
14:04:15  <dihedral> we had an awsome game
14:04:34  <dihedral> have 10 servers that make up ONE map? ;-P
14:04:46  <dihedral> and you 'join' other servers if you 'cross the border' :-P
14:04:49  <guru3> something like that
14:05:02  <dihedral> what also would be fun, would be a honeypot for the spoil sport gamers :-D
14:05:12  <SpComb> or one server with a map ten times as large
14:05:23  <guru3> one computer would have trouble with that
14:05:25  <dihedral> too much load
14:05:37  <guru3> need to go with (god forbid) the second life model
14:05:38  <dihedral> what i would _really_ be after
14:05:40  <SpComb> get more computer :P
14:05:56  <dihedral> is to get a really unique id per game that has started
14:05:58  <roboboy> gnight people
14:06:05  <dihedral> so that with OpenTTDLib one could generate stats
14:06:11  <SpComb> distributiing a game server would be difficult
14:06:14  <dihedral> and one know's if it's a different game or not
14:06:16  <guru3> there are unique IDs per client
14:06:19  <guru3> so you can track by player
14:06:29  <guru3> SpComb: hence why i said impossible
14:06:31  <dihedral> yes - but not gather stats per game played
14:06:37  <dihedral> :-)
14:06:37  <Bjarni> it would be cool to distribute the game server
14:06:38  <SpComb> MyOTTD tracks game IDs by how it starts/stops/loads/saves
14:06:50  <Bjarni> but I don't see how we could do that with our current code
14:07:00  <SpComb> not impossible to split the server load across several nodes, but very difficult
14:07:05  <dihedral> SpComb: but then that is because myottd starts/etc the server
14:07:17  <roboboy> bye
14:07:19  <guru3> Bjarni: if i was going to suggest anything i would suggest a bridge that just goes off the map
14:07:28  <guru3> the train drives down the bridge and dissapears
14:07:29  <Bjarni> even locally it would be a good move.... would make dualcore computers a bit more useful
14:07:40  *** dihedral is now known as JJ
14:07:44  <guru3> send a packet to the next server with all the details of the train
14:07:52  <SpComb> keeping them seperate is slightly more feasible
14:08:01  <SpComb> but, why, really? :/
14:08:10  <guru3> no reason
14:08:13  <SpComb> would it work in terms of gameplay? Make sense?
14:08:14  <Bjarni> lowering the CPU load
14:08:16  <guru3> i just thought it'd be cool
14:08:19  <Bjarni> but gaining overhead
14:08:40  <guru3> i have an even simpler idea
14:08:50  <guru3> special stations along the edge of each map
14:08:54  <guru3> that are like buoys
14:09:15  <guru3> they can correspond directly to stations on the edge of the map on another server
14:09:23  <guru3> the train on this end drops stuff off there
14:09:29  <guru3> and you can pick it up with a train on the other server
14:10:43  *** JJ is now known as dihedral
14:11:00  <guru3> anyway, that's my one brilliant idea for this year
14:11:26  <Bjarni> if we were to make this useful then we should split the map(s) up into say 256x256 pieces. Each server should then be able to handle x map parts (faster servers can get more than slow ones). Clients would then only be aware of the map parts that matters to it and we can in theory have gigantic maps
14:11:42  <Bjarni> but
14:11:49  <Bjarni> I have no idea on how to code this
14:12:24  <SpComb> and then if one server explodes, the other servers take over those map parts and nobody even notices what happaned
14:12:31  <SpComb> there's your design requirements
14:12:39  <dihedral> guru3: if you worked on the rcon stuff
14:12:51  <Bjarni> but it would make cluster servers and servers with multiple cores useful
14:12:52  <dihedral> would you be interested in splitting all rcon related stuff of to another port?
14:13:13  <Bjarni> dihedral: why should we do that?
14:13:17  <SpComb> dihedral: port as in socket?
14:13:38  <guru3> the idea would be so that you don't have to be in game to mess with it
14:13:55  <SpComb> I've considered moving my inary API thing froom stdin/out to a seperate socket, bu not sure how the networking core could handle that socket
14:14:00  <Bjarni> <SpComb> and then if one server explodes, the other servers take over those map parts and nobody even notices what happaned <-- but this would mean that all servers should be aware of the entire map... kind of spoils the distributed idea
14:14:16  <guru3> they can have autosaves of the other sections
14:14:22  <guru3> if they detect a missing section load the autosave
14:14:29  <SpComb> Bjarni: you could have two servers handle each tile, primary and backup
14:14:39  <guru3> since they're not directly connected you could... deal with the slight misalignment
14:15:03  <guru3> dihedral: i have no idea if it's possible to split the rcon off to a seperate socket
14:15:11  <Bjarni> also what if say a company has enough money to autoreplace one vehicle and two map parts replace the vehicle due to lag then what?
14:15:32  <SpComb> how possible would it be to hack in my own socket with my own protocol into OpenTTD's select loop?
14:16:17  <Bjarni> <SpComb> Bjarni: you could have two servers handle each tile, primary and backup <-- this is only a good idea if we have enough servers... using two or 3 servers wouldn't do us any good
14:16:33  <guru3> you know how you can give money to clients? each map maintains a seperate budget under the same company id, but you can send money to yourself on other servers from one server
14:16:37  <SpComb> it wasn't an entirely serious suggestion
14:16:49  <guru3> then auto replace only depends on the money directly available to that section of the company on that server
14:16:56  <SpComb> doing automatic failover isn't fun
14:17:27  <guru3> dihedral: i have no idea if it's possible to split the rcon off to a seperate socket, right now it uses a special packet type
14:17:36  <guru3> that is if it works like how i originall wrote it
14:17:52  <guru3> then it marks the function to return output to the client that sent it rather than to the regular server console
14:18:33  <guru3> you'd have to handle a whole new set of tcp connections, pass it into the place that it gets passed from the client, mark it as going back to a tcp connection, collect it at the right point and handle the tcp
14:18:44  <guru3> the big issue is probably actually setting up the second socket and handling all of that
14:20:55  <dihedral> i would help :-P
14:21:20  <dihedral> yes - the idea would be to have the option of doing rcon stuff without actually having to be in the game
14:21:39  <guru3> i could picture it as a hack, but i don't know about integrating it properly into the source
14:21:40  *** G_ [] has joined #openttd
14:21:48  <Bjarni> dihedral: spyware?
14:22:14  <Bjarni> why not look for credit card numbers while you are at it?
14:22:37  <Belugas> i can do that!
14:22:38  <dihedral> ?
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14:22:46  <dihedral> look at other games ;-)
14:23:01  <Bjarni> ...
14:23:03  <Belugas> it is done on other games?
14:23:10  <Bjarni> now why didn't I think of Belugas for this idea...
14:23:26  <Belugas> lol
14:23:28  *** G [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:23:53  <Bjarni> other games copies your credit card info without you knowing it?
14:24:29  <dihedral> other games use a separate rcon port/socket
14:25:03  *** Hendikins [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
14:25:04  <Belugas> good reason for us to not do it
14:25:08  <Belugas> WE ARE ALL CLONES!
14:25:11  <Belugas> burk...
14:25:23  <Bjarni> quit copying me >_<
14:25:24  <dihedral> if that was done, OpenTTDLib would not be limited to the data provided with the udp stuff
14:25:31  <Belugas> hey! other games are in 3D! Let's do it too!
14:25:39  <dihedral> lol
14:25:46  <dihedral> no
14:25:50  <Bjarni> other games costs money
14:25:57  <Bjarni> let's copy that as well
14:25:57  <dihedral> it would just open a few possibilites
14:26:10  <dihedral> such as websites that can send rcon to servers
14:26:11  <Bjarni> you mean personal backdoors?
14:26:46  <dihedral> and it would be nice to write a rcon app :-)
14:27:03  <dihedral> that would let you kick ban players, pause unpause, etc
14:27:19  <dihedral> and if my move clients patch ever made it further than sitting in
14:27:24  <dihedral> it could do that too :-P
14:27:38  <dihedral> with a neat gui :-P
14:28:15  <Belugas>
14:28:32  <hylje> what a patch
14:28:38  <dihedral> basically one could write a client that was not in the need of providing seeds, etc
14:28:45  <dihedral> Belugas: LOL
14:29:01  <dihedral> i am not asking _you_ to do it :-P
14:29:14  <Bjarni> no but that's what you mean
14:29:21  <dihedral> nope
14:29:30  <dihedral> that is not what i mean
14:29:39  <Bjarni> the more you deny the less trustworthy you end up being
14:30:11  <dihedral> if you wanted _you_ to do it, i would not have asked guru3 for help :-)
14:30:39  <Bjarni> you want everybody to code what you ask for
14:30:42  <Bjarni> just admit it
14:30:45  <dihedral> nope
14:30:59  <dihedral> i just want to do something that will be useful :-)
14:31:19  <guru3> it could be useful
14:31:24  <dihedral> and the 'move clients' patch had it's moment of glory in wwottdgd as far as i can tell
14:32:09  <dihedral> the relaod config patch is server side only - so i dont mind having to patch my servers every time :-)
14:32:26  <Belugas> the point is, if it was that much usefull, it might eventually come to trunk
14:32:31  <Belugas> but right now,
14:32:37  <Belugas> we try to deal with real issues
14:32:39  <Belugas> like bugs
14:32:48  <guru3> so deal with them, by all means
14:32:48  <Belugas> and code reorganisation
14:33:04  <Belugas> that's what we try to do
14:33:05  <dihedral> Belugas: i never asked any of the devs to give me a hand with it
14:33:14  <guru3> asked poor old ignored guru3
14:33:18  <Belugas> nope, you did not, i agree
14:33:34  <Belugas> and, if i recall, you still have some work to do on it
14:33:39  <Belugas> like coding style
14:34:04  <dihedral> i just dont know what needs to be changed
14:34:21  <Bjarni> everything
14:34:30  <Belugas> link was provided to you
14:34:30  <Bjarni> we need to start over to make this work :P
14:34:40  <dihedral> Bjarni: admit it, you never even look at it :-)
14:34:53  <Belugas> open the link, look at the style, look at the resulting patch, find what is wrong wiht it
14:35:11  <guru3> yeah i'm gonna eat now so um
14:35:19  <guru3> dihedral: if you want to try and do something later, pm me
14:35:27  <dihedral> will do - thank you
14:35:46  <dihedral> if i knew what needed changing i would have done it by now!
14:36:07  <dihedral> if there was a coding style guidline that i could follow, where no dev sais it's outdated
14:36:11  <dihedral> i would have followed that
14:36:15  <Belugas> do you have an editor who can display tabs?
14:36:38  <dihedral> what i did in the move clients patch was mostly copying the style of code that was surrounding it
14:36:52  <dihedral> sure do?
14:37:04  <Belugas> look at the tabs on unneeded places
14:37:06  <Belugas> TONS OF
14:38:06  <Belugas> and give me some breathing room...  it's almost all a pack of closed lines each another
14:38:23  <Belugas> commented code on your own code is a baaaaaaaaaad stuff
14:39:44  <Belugas> forget that last one... but still, the code i'm reading is NOT following code style regarding comments
14:40:16  <Belugas> so, you have an awfull lot of cleaning to do.  One of the reasons it is sitting on FS ;)
14:40:34  <Belugas> people almost NEVER read their patches once they are done
14:40:45  <Belugas> Hey! the code works, it's ready to trunk...
14:40:51  <Belugas> Please....
14:41:31  <dihedral> i am more happy if someone points those things out to me, as i know of myself that i can miss things like that
14:41:44  <dihedral> not that i want to say that i dont look at my own code
14:42:10  <dihedral> but even though i do look at my own code, i tend to miss things at times
14:42:30  <dihedral> if i am unsure about style - i look at functions around that i can copy what i find there
14:42:39  <Belugas> dihedral, i just gave you tons of stuff to do.  read my lines, read the patch itself, and at least try to find yourself the offending spots
14:42:52  <dihedral> will do :-)
14:42:55  <dihedral> thank you :-)
14:43:07  <Belugas> we have not yet had the time to change all the coding style of all the files,
14:43:17  <Belugas> so of course there are some dark sport here and there
14:43:36  <Belugas> the older the code, the more likely the code stylke was not used at that time
14:43:54  <Belugas> but newer codes are QUITE compliant
14:45:46  <dihedral> thanks :-)
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14:59:25  * dihedral waves to Belugas
15:00:34  <Belugas> sorry, i'm back at work.  But you can type, i'll catch up later
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15:19:25  * Belugas waves at dihedral, hoping it willbe fast
15:23:02  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i was about to do action 2/3 support, but then someone made me read :(
15:23:56  <valhallasw> why is there no free, portable, useable multi-messenger client for windows? :(
15:24:31  <dihedral> trillian?
15:24:40  <valhallasw> oh, wait, trillian is semi-free these days
15:24:48  <glx> pidgin (gaim)
15:25:07  <valhallasw> pidgin is slow, bloated and unintuitive :P
15:26:11  <valhallasw> I'll check out trillian again.. has been some time since I have used it
15:26:34  <valhallasw> it had the nice support of two accounts on one protocol.. as long as the user lists were the same -_-
15:26:38  <pv2b> trillian isn't really portable
15:26:53  <pv2b> it's only windows afaik
15:27:23  <valhallasw> I meant portable in 'put on an usb stick and go'
15:27:26  <pv2b> ah
15:27:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11715 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not use GetTrackBits() for depots and waypoints while converting railtype
15:30:14  <valhallasw> yuck, 'free' toolbars
15:30:14  <valhallasw> :X
15:31:53  <pv2b> free, as in really freaking annoying
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15:53:00  <pavel1269> error
15:53:01  <pavel1269> Generating polish language file
15:53:01  <pavel1269> d:\Games\OpenTTD\zdroj - cistej\src\lang\polish.txt(3007): FATAL: invalid argidx -1
15:53:01  <pavel1269> Project : error PRJ0019: A tool returned an error code from "Generating polish language file"
15:53:01  <pavel1269> Build log was saved at "file://d:\Games\OpenTTD\zdroj - cistej\objs\langs\BuildLog.htm"
15:53:02  <pavel1269> langs - 1 error(s), 0 warning(s)
15:53:13  <pavel1269> clear 11714
15:53:17  <glx> pavel1269: known
15:53:21  <pavel1269> ok
15:53:33  <glx> but doesn't stop compilation of openttd
15:53:49  <pavel1269> it does not compile any other language
15:53:57  <glx> not a problem
15:54:24  <pavel1269> sure? :(
15:54:26  <pavel1269> *:)
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15:54:47  <Belugas> unless you're polish, of course ;)
15:54:58  <pavel1269> i dont have theer english/czech ...
15:55:15  <glx> you'll just miss latest lang updates
15:55:20  <pavel1269> it just generated languages from bottom :/
15:55:30  <pavel1269> glx: if i add my own patches to that?
15:55:43  <pavel1269> dont it will miss sth?
15:56:20  <glx> added string in english.txt?
15:56:31  <pavel1269> yup
15:56:47  <glx> only english will work probably
15:57:12  <pavel1269> if it will not genereate english language?
15:57:25  <glx> it will generate it
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15:57:40  <glx> it is done before compiling other languages
15:57:58  <pavel1269> Generating strings.h
15:57:58  <pavel1269> Generating ukrainian language file
15:58:11  <pavel1269> sure? :)
15:58:15  <glx> yes
15:58:34  <pavel1269> no
15:58:40  *** LA[Lord] is now known as LA
15:58:45  <pavel1269> i dont have english.lng in bin/lang
15:58:53  <glx> it doesn't regenerate english each time if there's no change since latest compile
15:59:11  <pavel1269> i dont have it there anyway
15:59:17  *** LA is now known as Guest1478
15:59:26  *** Guest1478 is now known as LordAzamath
15:59:29  <glx> you can remove polish.txt if you want
15:59:37  *** LordAzamath is now known as LordAzamath[I
15:59:48  <pavel1269> it will skit error, not solve ;)
15:59:50  <Sacro> LordAzamath[I: stop spamming :p
15:59:52  <Eddi|zuHause> pavel1269: did you check in objs/release/lang or something?
16:00:00  <LordAzamath[I> why can't I have spaces in my name...:(
16:00:06  <pavel1269> Eddi|zuHause: yes ... bin/lang
16:00:14  <LordAzamath[I> I didn't want to spam, sorry
16:00:17  <Eddi|zuHause> not bin, objs
16:00:42  <Eddi|zuHause> files are generated in objs, and later copied to bin
16:00:47  <pavel1269> in objs no lang file at all
16:01:35  <pavel1269> Eddi|zuHause: it's generated to din/lang :)
16:01:38  <pavel1269> *bin
16:01:49  <LordAzamath[I> ok..I'll change my nick for the last time now...I figuered out the right way :P
16:01:57  <Eddi|zuHause> in objs there should be directories like "release" and "debug"
16:02:08  *** LordAzamath[I is now known as LA[I_want_Orange_Box]
16:02:09  <pavel1269> no debug but yes, release
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16:02:45  <pavel1269> objs/Win32/Release
16:02:56  <pavel1269> only BuildLog.htm
16:03:15  <Eddi|zuHause> weird
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16:03:30  <pavel1269> i am sure now, english is not first compiled language
16:03:55  <glx> but it is, because it needs to have english complied to compile others
16:03:58  <pavel1269> and i am sure, that langs are in bin/lang at least, for MSVS 2005
16:04:25  <glx> anyway removing polish.txt fixes it
16:05:02  <pavel1269> i dont know about compiling languages, but english is not first ^^
16:05:19  <hylje>
16:05:25  <hylje> is this magleV?
16:05:44  <LA[I_want_Orange_Box]> hehe
16:05:51  <Belugas> nope... this is fantasy
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16:07:25  <pavel1269>
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16:11:57  <hylje> you have a directory called "lol"
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16:20:42  <Sacro> "Who still does not leave the fingers of the set-up, for that one here comes a short
16:20:42  <Sacro> overview of the most important set possibilities
16:20:42  <Sacro> REV"
16:20:44  <Sacro> wtf
16:20:49  <Sacro> stupid germans
16:21:08  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm?
16:21:34  <Sacro> "The standard REV limit is near 10.400 U/min. The setting range ranges from 10.200
16:21:34  <Sacro> U/min to 10.500 U/min.
16:21:34  <Sacro> More than 10.400 U/min go on the durability of the engine and lead inavitably to an
16:21:34  <Sacro> engine failure."
16:21:41  <Sacro> wtf is "U"
16:21:48  <Sacro> and "inavitability"
16:21:54  <Gonozal_VIII> rpm
16:22:11  <Sacro> yes, i figured that
16:22:12  <pv2b> Sacro: inevitably i bet  they mean.
16:22:17  <Sacro> pv2b: i reckon so
16:22:26  <Gonozal_VIII> then why do you ask?
16:22:26  <pv2b> U/min is probably german for rpm
16:22:28  <Sacro> "If you notice while driving, that the oil temperature is beyond the normal range of
16:22:29  <Sacro> more than 103 degrees,"
16:22:32  <Sacro> degrees what?
16:22:33  <pv2b> U = "um---sometihng"
16:22:34  <Gonozal_VIII> is my nick guestsomething?
16:22:44  <Sacro> GuestSomething: yes
16:22:46  <pv2b> Sacro: probably centrigrade, since they're germans
16:22:56  <Sacro> centigrade
16:23:17  <peter__> celcius!
16:23:36  <peter__> er, Celsius?
16:23:38  <pv2b> celcius actually invented a different scale, with water boilingat 0 degrees
16:23:43  <pv2b> and freezing at 100
16:24:03  <Gonozal_VIII> what?
16:24:31  <Sacro> celsius = centigrade
16:25:09  <Gonozal_VIII> [17:22:33] pv2b: U = "um---sometihng" Umdrehungen btw
16:25:12  <Sacro>  = kelvin + 273.15
16:25:14  <pv2b> centigrade... latin or something for one hundred degrees.
16:25:35  <Gonozal_VIII> centi is 1/100
16:25:44  <pv2b> celcius, the name of a swedish astronomer who invented something very similar to the contemporary centigrade scale.
16:25:51  <pv2b> in 1742 i think
16:26:39  <pv2b> the way the temperature scale is today is due to linnaeus, who put it the right way up
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16:28:04  <Gonozal_VIII> Anders Celsius bezeichnete ursprÌnglich, umgekehrt wie heute Ìblich, die Gefrierpunktstemperatur mit 100° und die Siedepunktstemperatur mit 0°. Kurz nach seinem Tod wurden jedoch die Temperaturwerte der beiden Fixpunkte getauscht
16:28:14  <peter__> yeah, pv2b is making stuff up
16:28:18  <Gonozal_VIII> was changed shortly after his death
16:28:41  <pv2b> peter__: what i make up tends to be pretty close to the truth. i'm uncanny that way *<:-)
16:29:04  <pv2b> anyway, point is. modern temperatures. we had them first here in sweden.
16:29:12  <Gonozal_VIII> the worst kind of lies are those close to the truth ;-)
16:29:23  <pv2b> fahrenheit can die in a fire or something.
16:29:36  <Belugas> [11:34] <pv2b> ... i'm uncanny that way *<:-)  <--- hehehe and still look like a clown!!!
16:29:54  <Gonozal_VIII> but he wouldn't know the right temperature of the fire
16:30:33  <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: exactly. trapped in a burning building with the only available thermometer displaying values in centigrade.
16:31:11  <Belugas> "The Celsius scale is the centigrade scale with one change. Defined in 1954 at the 10th General Conference of Weights and Measures, temperature on the Celsius scale is the temperature on the Kelvin scale minus 273.15. This definition makes values on the Celsius and centigrade scale agree within less than 0.1 degree.  For everyday purposes, the scales are identical.  One reason for doing away with the word “centigrade,” was that it might be confused with one
16:31:14  <Belugas>
16:31:35  <Belugas> so... Celsius for now on :)
16:31:59  <Gonozal_VIII> Fahrenheit wÀhlte als Nullpunkt seiner Temperaturskala die tiefste Temperatur des strengen Winters 1708/1709 in seiner Heimatstadt Danzig <-- wtf that sucks... fahrenheit zero is based on the lowest temperature in danzig in the winter of 1708
16:32:30  <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: other sources say it's based on a mixture of ammonium something and water.
16:32:34  <pv2b> can't remember exactly.
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16:33:35  <Gonozal_VIII> wiki states re reproduced that temperature with that mixture later
16:33:36  <peter__> heh... ℃
16:33:59  <peter__> is there anything unicode doesn't have? heh
16:35:48  <pv2b> ℃ soudns kinda redundant to me. i can just type °C directly on my keyboard.
16:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause> <Gonozal_VIII> Fahrenheit wÀhlte als Nullpunkt seiner Temperaturskala die tiefste Temperatur des strengen Winters 1708/1709 in seiner Heimatstadt Danzig <-- wtf that sucks... fahrenheit zero is based on the lowest temperature in danzig in the winter of 1708 <- you didn't know that? he took the lowest temperature he knew that was ever measured
16:36:04  <pv2b> but then, unicode has lots of silly stuff in it
16:36:44  <glx> you can draw with unicode
16:36:45  <Gonozal_VIII> -17,8 °C is the lowest temperature ever measured? we have colder winters
16:36:57  <Eddi|zuHause> "he knew"
16:37:12  <pv2b> ☃
16:37:22  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: use ℃ next time ;)
16:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause> that snowman looks evil
16:37:37  <pv2b> glx: i prefer these for temperatures: ☀☁☂☃
16:37:42  <Gonozal_VIII> i can't, i don't know what that's supposed to be :P
16:38:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: you should get rid of your ancient technology
16:38:17  <Gonozal_VIII> my precious!
16:38:25  <glx> and stop writing squares
16:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause> s/s/sssss/
16:38:33  <pv2b> ☺
16:38:39  <Gonozal_VIII> squares
16:38:42  <Gonozal_VIII> squares
16:38:43  <Gonozal_VIII> :P
16:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause> there are no squares
16:39:03  <pv2b> ♙♙♙♙♙♙♙♙
16:39:04  <pv2b> ♖♘♗♕♔♗♘♖
16:39:09  <glx> "-17,8 square C" is not good
16:39:20  <Gonozal_VIII> ° is a square?
16:39:24  <glx> yes
16:39:29  <pv2b> if ° is a squre your font is deficient
16:39:38  <Eddi|zuHause> there are really chess figures in unicode?!?
16:39:41  <Gonozal_VIII> that's the thing below esc + shift
16:39:51  <pv2b> Eddi|zuHause: yeah. white and black ones *<:D
16:40:06  <Eddi|zuHause> insane :p
16:40:13  <pv2b> together with irc inverse video you could make an irc chess game
16:40:15  <Belugas> i cannot see nothing but squares :(
16:40:43  <Gonozal_VIII> i saw some a with ^ ontop and tm signs
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16:41:19  <Gonozal_VIII> trademark thing
16:41:21  <pv2b> ♻ <--- black universal recycling symbol.
16:41:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't find them...
16:41:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i only have 200 pages of chinese symbols
16:41:47  <pv2b> Eddi|zuHause: i'll give you the fcode point. just a sec.
16:41:48  <Eddi|zuHause> half of them not defined in my font
16:41:54  <Gonozal_VIII> that's a with the ^ ontop, tm and two right arrows
16:42:09  <pv2b> Eddi|zuHause: they start at U+2654
16:42:25  <glx> U+2654 -> U+265F
16:42:41  <glx> and they are in arial unicode
16:43:02  <pv2b> pity there arent any good monospaced fonts.
16:43:05  <pv2b> for unicode that is
16:43:25  <pv2b> once you get to the wacker characters my terminal half craps out
16:43:32  <glx> yes, I want an unicode font with as many symbols as in arial unicode
16:43:34  <Gonozal_VIII> how do you type that U+something stuff?
16:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the one i currently have is quite good
16:43:47  <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: on a mac you just fidn the character in the character pallette.
16:43:57  <glx> same on windows
16:44:02  <peter__> ⌹
16:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: afaik in windows you have Alt+Number for ascii, and Alt+0+Number for unicode
16:44:38  <pv2b> peter__: hah.  had to paste that somewhere and enlarge it
16:44:43  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: not true
16:44:47  <Eddi|zuHause> peter__: i can't identify what that is
16:45:12  <pv2b> peter__: i don't think i have any font wit hthat code point in it
16:45:15  <Gonozal_VIII> how can i hold down alt and 0 at the same time and type in a number while doing that?
16:45:15  <pv2b> all i see is "misc technical"
16:45:22  <pv2b> Gonozal_VIII: i dunno if that works for unicode
16:45:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Gonozal_VIII: Alt+(0,Number)
16:45:59  <Tefad> wow, that's a snowman?
16:46:21  <pv2b> oh btw. anyone need some arrows? ➔➘➙➚➛➜➝➞➟➠➡➢➣➀➥➊➧➩➚➪➫➬➭➮➯➱➲➳➎➵➶➷➞➹➺➻➌➜➟
16:46:23  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:46:25  <Tefad> also unicode has solid and hollow chess pieces
16:46:29  <Gonozal_VIII> i get an error sound with every number
16:46:30  <Tefad> so you don't need inverted.
16:46:36  <pv2b> Tefad: for hte chess board.
16:46:57  <peter__> ☄☠☢☣☭⚅⚢
16:47:11  * glx increases font size
16:47:15  <Tefad> again.. why do you need inversion? ; )
16:47:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that last one is not in my font
16:47:23  <pv2b> Tefad: just a moment.
16:47:42  <glx> I miss the 2 last
16:47:42  <Tefad> pv2b: i know what you're saying, but it's rather superficial
16:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause> Tefad: for the white figures on a black field
16:48:14  <Belugas> haaa....  now i see :)
16:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause> you take a black figure on a white field, and invert that
16:48:50  <Belugas> Arial Unicode MS (or something like that)of course, Fixedsys does not provide much unicode stuff ^_^
16:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause> the pre-last one is a dice showing 6 dots
16:49:17  <Tefad> Belugas: there's fixedsys excelsior for that
16:49:31  <Tefad> the author died though, so it won't be updated any time soon
16:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> arrows you said? ⟲⟎⟶⟹⟿⟷⟺
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16:58:20  <peter__> gordon's alive?
16:59:01  <thomas001> hi is there any reason why a train from "Wegpunkt Kornstadt" to "Wegpunkt Nuernheim #3" does not take the obvious route,but heads back to the station,goes on the mainline to the left and turns somewhere down the track?
16:59:52  <Belugas> thanks Tefad
17:00:41  <peter__> thomas001, yeah, looks like you're missing a bit of elrail in the last bit of track to nuernhiem 3
17:00:44  <Eddi|zuHause> while the picture loads, i'd guess missing electrification
17:00:51  <peter__> *nod*
17:01:01  <peter__> as indicated by the pylons being on the other side for a bit
17:01:54  <pavel1269> btw, why that complex big station for that small transport? :)
17:02:31  <pavel1269> ahh reminds me i wanted to upload some pictures .P
17:02:45  <thomas001> peter__, oh thx i really missed that,sorry
17:03:08  <thomas001> is there a more reliable way of electrifcation that dragging big boxes over my tracks? ;-)
17:03:23  <pavel1269> no
17:03:33  <Sacro> cht:upgradetracks
17:03:33  <Eddi|zuHause> where is the guy with the tile highlighting? why has that not been finished?
17:03:55  <pv2b> it should be easier to see diff between elrails and normal rails *<:-/
17:04:23  <Eddi|zuHause> tile highlighting could draw coloured squares around different tiles
17:04:30  <Eddi|zuHause> it would be ideal to mark track type
17:05:01  <pavel1269> i turn off el rails :) they just make train not visible well :)
17:05:33  <pv2b> yeah, i don't really like how elrails look either, but then again i don't really know how to draw them better myself so i tend to stfu about them *<:-)
17:05:58  <glx> you can use another catenary set
17:06:11  <pv2b> haven't messed with newgrfs at all
17:06:20  <pv2b> does that owrk in multiplayer btw?
17:06:26  <dihedral> Bjarni: you live in sweden right?
17:06:37  <pavel1269> pv2b: there is way to: yes :)
17:06:48  <pv2b> dihedral: i live in sweden
17:06:50  <glx> yes if you put them by hand in [newgrf-static]
17:07:05  <dihedral> pv2b: i am asking Bjarni :-)
17:07:08  <pavel1269> if that grf don't change some game mechanism, then put it to newgrf-static
17:07:29  <pavel1269> dihedral: and? :P
17:08:37  <dihedral> pavel1269: means i am not really interested in other responses :-)
17:08:55  <pavel1269> 18:06 <dihedral> Bjarni: you live in sweden right? --- no i live in czech rep ^^
17:08:58  <pavel1269> :D
17:09:14  * dihedral slaps pavel1269
17:09:26  * pavel1269 smiles at dihedral
17:09:30  * dihedral slaps pavel1269
17:09:31  <Belugas> dihedral, i'm from Canada
17:09:39  * pavel1269 laught at dihedral
17:09:39  <dihedral> where are you from Belugas
17:09:47  <dihedral> ah - you beat me to it Belugas
17:09:50  <Belugas> the sea?
17:09:52  <pavel1269> :D
17:10:00  <pavel1269> good boy Belugas :)
17:10:07  <dihedral> boy?
17:10:10  <pavel1269> man?
17:10:21  <dihedral> he could be your dad - be a little more respectful
17:10:22  <pavel1269> <- dont speak english very well
17:10:23  <dihedral> :-P
17:10:23  <Belugas> naaa...  a MALE!
17:10:49  <pavel1269> affirmative
17:11:31  <pavel1269> dihedral: and you will not slap him? :))
17:12:11  <dihedral> i would never dare to slap him
17:12:23  <pavel1269> and me yes :(
17:12:29  *** gege [] has joined #openttd
17:12:33  <gege> hello
17:13:28  <Digitalfox> hello
17:13:31  <pavel1269> ello
17:22:37  <gege> i have a game with some negativ profit train what i dont understand
17:23:50  <Bjarni>  <dihedral> Bjarni: you live in sweden right? <--- what did I do to you to get insulted like that?
17:24:19  <pavel1269> lol
17:24:29  <gege> :)
17:24:39  <Belugas> gege, try to find out if you have transfer orders for those trains
17:24:49  <gege> i see it about an hour
17:25:02  <gege> and i dont understand why
17:25:11  <pavel1269> do you use transfers?
17:25:24  <gege> yes i can send you the save game
17:25:41  <pavel1269> read it again :-/
17:25:43  <Belugas> not needed.  just check if yu have transfers
17:25:59  <gege> yes i have 2 line
17:26:12  <gege> one A fulload and B transfer
17:26:20  <Belugas> there you go
17:26:26  <gege> And one to B fulload and C unload
17:26:27  <Belugas> tranfers do not bring in monay
17:26:42  <gege> but the second line what make negativ:)
17:26:46  <Belugas> C is the only one paying
17:26:50  <gege> not the transfer line
17:27:15  <gege> A to B transerf make profit
17:27:44  <Bjarni> and now dihedral will not even dare to answer my question?
17:27:47  <gege> at B to C some train make about 9 million euro deicit
17:27:52  <Bjarni> what is wrong with this channel today?
17:28:34  <pavel1269> Bjarni: :D
17:28:45  <pavel1269> Reset();
17:28:56  <gege> Bjarni: There are not enough Danish user
17:28:57  <Bjarni> that's called mkick in IRC
17:29:11  <pavel1269> Bjarni: no :)
17:30:02  <Bjarni> are you denying my statement?
17:31:03  <pavel1269> i am not sure now ^^
17:31:06  * pavel1269 hides
17:33:13  *** AKiS [~AKiS@] has joined #openttd
17:33:20  <AKiS> hi all
17:33:30  <AKiS> anyone can help me?
17:33:49  <AKiS> where i can report a ottd crash?
17:34:56  <AKiS> help please!!
17:35:11  <pv2b> AKiS:
17:36:23  <AKiS> i have another problem with ottd
17:36:33  <AKiS> the autosave is not working
17:36:45  <glx> give more details
17:36:55  <Bjarni> it fails to load?
17:37:00  <Bjarni> it fails to save?
17:37:09  <AKiS> no it's not saving
17:37:09  <glx> you fail to find the files?
17:37:12  <pv2b> what platform?
17:37:13  <AKiS> yes
17:37:18  <AKiS> windows xp sp2
17:37:20  <SmatZ> do you have autosave on?
17:37:24  <AKiS> yes
17:37:30  <AKiS> at 6 months
17:37:33  <Bjarni> do you have write permission to the directory in question?
17:37:37  <pv2b> does it come up once in a while to say "autosaving"?
17:37:38  <AKiS> yes
17:37:38  <dihedral> i was not here Bjarni sorry
17:37:40  <glx> check My documents\OpenTTD\save\autosave
17:37:51  <AKiS> nothing there
17:37:57  <AKiS> no autosave
17:37:58  <Bjarni> dihedral: and now you make up weird excuses too
17:37:59  <AKiS> no file
17:38:09  <dihedral> i was installing gibraltar
17:38:18  <Bjarni> o_O
17:38:19  <dihedral> anyhow
17:38:24  <dihedral>
17:38:25  <Belugas> AKiS, try the search function of windows, search for "*.sav"
17:38:28  <glx> and in All Users ?
17:38:34  <dihedral> i just thought you lived in sweden
17:38:42  <dihedral> anyhow - i am on me way home now
17:38:42  <Bjarni> maybe I should install Panama
17:38:48  <AKiS> i tried but no file but my manual saves
17:38:51  <dihedral> see you in a bit
17:38:58  <Bjarni> hey
17:39:01  <dihedral> yes?
17:39:10  <Bjarni> we aren't simple enough to be stored in a bit
17:39:15  <Bjarni> you might be but we aren't
17:39:20  <dihedral> lol
17:39:26  <dihedral> see you in a jiffy :-P
17:39:44  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:39:54  <Wolf01> hello
17:40:02  <Bjarni> hi Wolf01
17:45:00  <AKiS> anyone can help me... the autosave problem..?
17:45:41  <gege> Akis: you dont found autosaves?
17:45:45  <gege> network game?
17:46:13  <AKiS> no single
17:46:46  <AKiS> and the same problem i have with screenshots
17:46:48  <glx> where is your openttd.cfg?
17:47:02  <AKiS> i dont have
17:47:10  <AKiS> i can't find it
17:47:33  <pavel1269> ^^
17:47:38  <glx> OpenTTD version?
17:47:48  <AKiS> 0.6 beta 2
17:48:00  <glx> installed in program files?
17:48:07  <AKiS> no
17:48:22  <glx> (shouldn't matter anyway)
17:48:51  <glx> but if you started openttd you should have an openttd.cfg
17:49:00  <AKiS> i know
17:49:04  <SmatZ> it must be created somewhere
17:49:12  <AKiS> it should be in data folder?
17:49:28  <glx> no
17:49:40  <AKiS> in the main folder?
17:49:53  <glx> by default it is created in My documents\OpenTTD
17:50:00  <AKiS> it's not in any
17:50:10  <AKiS> ...
17:50:52  <SmatZ> AKiS: does it remember your setting, for example when you change your language?
17:51:02  <AKiS> yes
17:51:10  <glx> then you have one
17:51:16  <SmatZ> then search for it
17:51:36  <AKiS> i am from Romania and i used romanian and it really sucks
17:52:15  <AKiS> i have ? to the most of the chars
17:52:35  <glx> because you didn't specify a font
17:52:54  <glx> you must do it in openttd.cfg
17:53:01  <AKiS> and how?
17:53:33  <pavel1269> just search it
17:54:04  <AKiS> ok if i'll find it how do i change my font?
17:54:07  <kbrooks> question
17:54:24  <kbrooks> why was openttd created
17:54:33  <glx>
17:54:41  <kbrooks> and are there any magnificient plans for 0.7.0
17:54:53  <glx> kbrooks: first wait for 0
17:54:56  <glx> 0.6.0
17:55:16  <kbrooks> then ask that, you mean?
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17:59:55  <AKiS> ok i solved the problem
18:00:03  <glx> what was it?
18:00:06  <AKiS> the autosaves were in my docs
18:00:07  <SmatZ> did you find your savegames?
18:00:21  <SmatZ> AKiS: how is it possible you searched for them and didn't find them?
18:00:32  <pavel1269> :D
18:00:43  <SmatZ> [18:38:30] <Belugas> AKiS, try the search function of windows, search for "*.sav"
18:00:45  <SmatZ> [18:38:53] <AKiS> i tried but no file but my manual saves
18:01:04  <AKiS> i searched only D: and not C: where the windows is installed
18:01:23  <AKiS> sorry 4 bothering u
18:01:27  <glx> [18:37:45] <+glx> check My documents\OpenTTD\save\autosave
18:01:37  <glx> I told you where to look ;)
18:01:46  <AKiS> yeah
18:02:00  <AKiS> i had also a crash
18:02:07  <AKiS> and that isnt my fault
18:02:16  <pavel1269> sure?
18:02:17  <SmatZ> AKiS: at least you didn't fill a bugreport with this :-p
18:02:20  <SmatZ> lol @ pavel1269
18:02:44  <glx> just tell it here (maybe we already know about it)
18:03:00  <glx> and if we don't know about it, report it in the bug tracker
18:03:09  <AKiS> when i tried to build a tram road it crashed
18:03:32  <AKiS> i had a message like " !disconnected road vehicle"
18:03:37  <SmatZ> AKiS: any newgrfs?
18:03:41  <AKiS> yes
18:03:43  <SmatZ> eg. which newgrf :)
18:03:44  <glx> you added grfs in a running game
18:03:52  <AKiS> no
18:03:55  <AKiS> in main menu\
18:05:45  <SmatZ> AKiS: can you reproduce it? eg. you start new game again and it wil lagain crash?
18:06:26  <AKiS> no i built some tram road and when a tram stuck i tried to build a tram road near him
18:06:34  <AKiS> then the game crashed
18:07:01  <AKiS> i better give the crash.log to the bugtracker?
18:07:18  <glx> will need a way to reproduce it
18:08:14  *** LA[lord] [~LAlord]] has joined #openttd
18:08:25  <LA[lord]> hay everybody
18:08:31  <AKiS> i have to go now
18:08:51  <AKiS> i'll give u the crash.log tomorrow
18:09:00  <AKiS> @ glx
18:09:11  <LA[lord]> is here anyone finnish? I need some assistance :)
18:09:17  <LA[lord]> for translation
18:09:23  <glx> AKiS: give crash.dmp too
18:09:30  <AKiS> ok
18:09:41  <AKiS> where can i find u?
18:09:55  <glx> near crash.log
18:10:08  <AKiS> no the file , you
18:10:28  <glx> create a bug report :)
18:10:46  <LA[lord]>
18:10:54  <AKiS> ok
18:10:57  *** Ondalf_Stardust [ondalf@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:11:10  <AKiS> bye thanx for your time
18:11:14  *** AKiS [~AKiS@] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
18:19:39  *** LA[lord] [~LAlord]] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
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18:27:29  * dihedral greets the bit Bjarni :-P
18:29:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11717 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp openttd.cpp players.cpp): -Fix [FS#1590]: make sure invalid players have all shares owned by PLAYER_SPECTATOR
18:29:16  <hylje> what a curious fix
18:29:36  <SmatZ> it was possible to cheat :)
18:31:56  <Belugas> [13:34] <hylje> what a curious fix  <--- yeah... curious fixes for curious users...
18:31:58  <pv2b> SmatZ: was it actually expolitable?
18:32:00  <pv2b> *<;-)
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18:32:38  <Belugas> too late :)  it's fixed !
18:33:49  <SmatZ> pv2b: yes :-) with a dedicated server, join as first to have ID=0, repay loan to bankrupt soon... then join as second company, buy shares of first company and wait until it bankrupts
18:33:53  <pv2b> Belugas: it's ok, i got to enjoy it once *<;-)
18:34:09  <pv2b> SmatZ: ooh *<:-)
18:34:11  <SmatZ> pv2b: thanks for report ;-)
18:34:14  <hylje> SmatZ: involves being the first player (e.g. host)
18:34:24  <pv2b> except you have to wait for a few years
18:34:27  <pv2b> so that the company is tradable
18:34:40  <SmatZ> true
18:35:46  <dihedral> play a savegame :-)
18:35:58  <dihedral> does not have to be a new random one
18:36:04  <SmatZ> hylje: on a dedicated server?
18:36:22  <hylje> yes
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18:36:47  <SmatZ> client and player(company) is something different
18:37:16  <hylje> fine
18:37:58  *** DeGhost [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:39:19  <pavel1269> client is player and player is company right? :)
18:39:40  <SmatZ> yes
18:40:12  <pv2b> it's confusing *<:)
18:40:18  <glx> not really
18:40:28  <pv2b> especially when the default for new clients is ... player
18:40:30  <glx> you can have multiple client for 1 player
18:40:42  <pv2b> default name that is
18:40:50  <SmatZ> like in openttdcoop
18:40:57  <pv2b> i mean, iit's not confusing to *me*
18:41:03  <pv2b> but it's still confusing
18:41:39  <SmatZ> :)
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19:00:00  <Bjarni> dihedral: would you please stop talking in binary
19:00:24  *** Farden [] has joined #openttd
19:00:32  <Bjarni> it's not making me happy and if I should read that as a boolean then it's bad for you ;)
19:01:55  <pavel1269> bool, where?
19:02:17  *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@] has joined #openttd
19:02:35  <roboboy> are you lot still argeung and being silly
19:05:10  *** Pikita [~qwertypop@] has joined #openttd
19:07:21  <dihedral> Bjarni resolves bit Bjarni to false :-P
19:07:22  <dihedral> haha
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19:20:02  <LA[lord]> is there anyone who is in need of 8bpp sprites? I would like to excercise a bit but I don't know what to draw..And if I draw something good, then maybe it would be useful to smb too..So is there anyone who is in need of 8bpp sprites?
19:21:47  <Belugas> yeah :) I need a lighthouse!
19:22:29  <LA[lord]> and what would you do with it?
19:22:32  <LA[lord]> :P
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19:22:45  <peter__> house a light
19:23:18  <LA[lord]> how can a..light...ok whatever
19:23:34  <LA[lord]> Something more cubic woould be better I guess :D
19:23:34  *** BigBB [] has quit []
19:23:41  <Belugas> lol
19:24:17  *** BigBB [] has joined #openttd
19:26:09  <LA[lord]> but if it's the only request, then....
19:26:36  * LA[lord] restarts failing to draw a proper lighthouse
19:27:37  <Belugas> it was a joke, LA[lord]...
19:27:51  <LA[lord]> I guessed so ;)
19:29:29  <LA[lord]> btw, belugas were you the one who suggested me to take lessons from skidd?
19:29:47  <Belugas> i think so yes :)
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19:54:57  <ln->
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20:15:33  <dih> any os x users here?
20:16:13  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:18:26  <dih> dont shout all at once :-P
20:18:42  <Eddi|zuHause> <- i finished action1/2/3 support
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20:23:45  <laz0r> can i somehow verify that my server is working correctly?
20:24:14  <laz0r> that is, can i check if anyone from outside would be able to join?
20:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> if you are listed on the masterserver, then you are accessable
20:24:38  <Eddi|zuHause>
20:24:47  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
20:25:03  <laz0r> i get alot of 'Queried from' messages
20:25:08  <laz0r> does that mean it works?
20:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause> probably
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20:27:42  <peter__> wtf, argentina changed its timezone
20:27:48  <peter__> in the space of a week
20:29:30  <thomas001> peter__, url?
20:31:33  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
20:32:11  <peter__> hmm, no authoritative source, was reading it on planetdebian (like a good sad geek)
20:32:14  *** dih [] has left #openttd [Leaving]
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20:32:47  <thomas001> i heard of venezuela,but argentina?
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20:33:50  <LA[lord]> I guess it was Venezuela too, poor Chaves didn't want to be in same time-zone with USA
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20:36:00  <peter__>
20:36:01  <peter__> heh
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20:57:26  <pv2b> i like the new drive through truck stops *<:-)
20:57:36  <Belugas> wb DaleStan
20:57:52  <pv2b> it's so... efficient
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20:58:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "new", aren't they almost a year old now?
20:58:47  <pv2b> Eddi|zuHause: i don't play nightlies, i only play point release, so for me they're new
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21:00:38  <Belugas> pssstttt... don't tell anyone... the 0.6 betas are actually disguised nightlies...
21:00:59  <pv2b> true, but because they're actually given a version number there are actually mp serverrs that run those revs
21:01:39  * Belugas rolls eyes...
21:02:19  <Belugas> and this is not a good attitude.  You do not need to update your servers every day with nightlies
21:02:28  <Belugas> once a week, even once a month
21:02:48  <Belugas> and THAT would HELP a lot on releasing versions
21:02:55  <laz0r> when im joined to my own server, and have the rcon pw set in the .cfg, should i be able to use the fast forward button?
21:03:12  <laz0r> because, im just wondering that i can actually use it...
21:03:22  <Ammller> we really need more clients :)
21:03:32  <Belugas> have you tried it, laz0r?
21:03:38  <laz0r> yes, i have
21:03:42  <Belugas> and?
21:03:44  <laz0r> i can fast forward my game
21:03:53  <Belugas> there you go :)
21:04:13  <laz0r> yeah, but should that be possible in a multiplayer game?
21:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: and i thought exactly that issue was being addressed with the beta release
21:04:23  <laz0r> i think maybe my server is setup wrong
21:04:36  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause, what do you mean?
21:05:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that people who refrain from using nightlies, because they think they have to be up to date, use beta releases
21:05:16  <pv2b> exactly
21:05:20  <laz0r> i dont have a client list too, but it seems i am joined to my own server
21:05:21  <pv2b> also it means lots of people run the same version
21:05:25  <Eddi|zuHause> as not-so-frequent nightlies
21:05:28  <pv2b> which is good
21:06:02  <Belugas> true.  but it has a nasty side effect too.  And it was discovered afterward
21:06:13  <Belugas> a lot of ...let say... new comers
21:06:26  <pv2b> what about them?
21:06:27  <Belugas> are playing the game, complaining about this or that as being bugs
21:06:58  <Belugas> now... it takes a lot of time to try to find if it is behind the keyboard or a real bug.
21:07:06  <Belugas> and then, since it is nighlies,
21:07:19  <Belugas> we finx them on nighlies when they are really bugs
21:08:00  <Belugas> but people keep on coming whit the same bugs since they only play "stables" or "official versions"
21:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause> so... release betas more often ;)
21:09:22  <Belugas> could be...
21:09:22  <LA[lord]> or for just nightlys, not even near a RC, alphas
21:09:30  <pv2b> exactly. hell, maybe once a week *<:-)
21:09:34  <pv2b> or once every two weeks
21:09:41  <Belugas> nightlies ARE alphas
21:10:07  <LA[lord]> just though of that :D
21:10:09  <pv2b> anyway, the reason i don't use nightlies is because i don't run a mp server, and very very few mp servers run any nightly revision
21:10:18  <Belugas> it's just up to the users to say... Hey, THIS nightly is good for THIW week
21:10:23  <pv2b> sure
21:10:26  <Eddi|zuHause> well, a "real" beta each month, and a "bugfix" beta a few days later ;)
21:10:30  <LA[lord]> lot's of people don't trust nightlys...
21:10:33  <pv2b> so then everyone chooses a "different" one
21:10:38  <glx> laz0r: you can't fast forward in multiplayer for a good reason
21:10:39  <pv2b> and nobody can play with the others
21:11:15  <laz0r> glx: ah ok thanks, then something is wrong here
21:11:19  <pv2b> you can't expect all the users to suddenly agree on "hey, let's all play THIS nightly"
21:11:51  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the server has to "agree" with himself, and the users have to be flexible enough to switch back and forth
21:12:02  <LA[lord]> except for Trauma's lair srver :D
21:12:04  <Belugas> why not?  you just advertise yourself, if they want ot play, they'll get the according nightly
21:12:20  <pv2b> Belugas: if i see a red dot i just move on to another server that's running the same version i have open
21:12:33  <glx> laz0r: no it is disabled in multiplayer, because it is "use as much CPU as you can" and usually clients have a very different speed in fast forward
21:13:01  <pv2b> maybe this is can be solved in software. i've been thinking about making an external game browser for openttd with filtering and stuff
21:13:14  <Belugas> pv2b, when all the dots are red, maybe you'll chose the most used version of nightly...
21:13:25  <pv2b> if the game browser could download and launch the correct nightly whenever you connect somewhere.
21:13:50  <pv2b> that'd be awesome. and the reason people'd get it is to get proper searching for stuff. maybe. we'll see if i ever get round to it.
21:14:52  <Belugas> don't count on us for that...
21:15:26  <pv2b> i'm not. i said it's something i might work on if i ever get around on it.
21:15:36  <pv2b> but i think it would solve that problem
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21:16:16  <Belugas> true
21:16:32  <pv2b> it could even download newgrfs for you *<:-)
21:16:47  <pv2b> or something. i dunno.
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21:18:19  <Belugas> bye
21:18:21  <Belugas> good night
21:19:28  <pavel1269> gn
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21:20:16  <dih> Bjarni: which irc client do you use?
21:22:14  <Bjarni> ...
21:22:24  <Bjarni> are you a fan or me or something?
21:22:42  <Bjarni> I mean why would you care?
21:22:58  <Bjarni> I write stuff on the channel... should it matter to you how I do it? :)
21:23:24  <Eddi|zuHause> what happened to /ctcp version?
21:23:35  * Bjarni decides to watch out for stalkers
21:23:46  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: firewall
21:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> [2007-12-28 22:23] [CTCP] Sende CTCP-VERSION-Anfrage an Bjarni.
21:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> [2007-12-28 22:23] [CTCP] CTCP-VERSION-Antwort von Bjarni empfangen: X-Chat Aqua 0.16.0 (xchat 2.6.1) Darwin 8.11.1 [i386/2.00GHz/SMP]
21:24:17  <Bjarni> interesting
21:24:32  <Bjarni> I'm only blocking this ability when I try to do it to other people...
21:24:42  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :)
21:24:47  <pv2b> lol
21:24:50  <pv2b> "oops" *<:D
21:25:14  <pv2b> kinda like the berlin wall i guess
21:25:22  <pv2b> how it was supposed to keep western spies out
21:25:32  <pv2b> then why are all the traps etc pointed the wrong way?
21:26:02  * Bjarni wonders how this happened
21:26:16  <Bjarni> not to mention: how to fix it
21:29:25  <dih> Bjarni: i am asking because i am looking for a client that will perhaps support certificate based authentication
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21:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause> now i get random requests from everybody? :p
21:31:28  <Bjarni> great
21:31:45  <Bjarni> is there somebody out there trying something funny with my IP?
21:32:05  <Bjarni> I can't find the blocked version package in all the rejected packages
21:32:25  <Bjarni> the router rejects like 2-3 packages every sec
21:36:20  <LA[lord]> ok guys goodnight, I'm off now
21:36:46  *** LA[lord] [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
21:36:47  <dih> night LA
21:36:52  * dih was too late
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21:46:15  <Bjarni> what port does version use?
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21:49:10  <alexboom> hello
21:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea
21:50:15  <alexboom> i have a question regarding newgrf interactions, would anyone be so kind to help me?
21:50:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought all this IRC stuff just used the open connection to the server
21:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> alexboom: not before you actually state your problem
21:51:05  <alexboom> oops, of course!
21:51:58  <alexboom> well, i'd like to use TTRS and DBset XL, but I met an ugly graphical "bug":
21:52:15  <Bjarni> gif?
21:52:22  <Bjarni> why not png?
21:52:25  <alexboom> it's just a small screenshot
21:52:33  <alexboom> you are an ayatollah of png :P
21:52:51  <Bjarni> ...
21:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause> alexboom: try reversing the order of DBSetXL and TTRS3
21:52:59  <Bjarni> I'm a fan of the buildin screenshot feature
21:53:34  <glx> I'm sure dbsetxl has some params to prevent that
21:54:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i always disabled the roads of TTRS3
21:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i find them ugly
21:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause> and all other roadsets i used had a compatibility mode for DBSet crossings
21:54:53  <alexboom> ok, i am stupid, i just solved the problem
21:55:00  <glx> anyway they both have params to do what you want
21:55:11  <alexboom> i reversed the order of dbsetxl and ttrs3 like Eddi|zuHause suggested, it worked
21:55:46  <alexboom> i always though the first one was the most important, guess it's the opposite
21:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> generally, the dbset is older than ttrs3, put the newer one below, it is more likely to have a compatibility mode
21:56:19  <glx> latest can overwrite
21:56:39  <alexboom> yup, the latest overwrites, i just discovered that :p
21:56:55  <Eddi|zuHause> grfs are loaded from top to bottom
21:57:04  <alexboom> it's obvious indeed
21:58:36  <alexboom> thanks for your help
21:58:38  <SpComb> Bjarni: CTCP is not a seperate connection
21:58:57  <SpComb> DCC is, but CTCP isn't, it's carried in normal IRC PRIVMSG/NOTICE commands
21:59:24  <Bjarni> then why is I'm blocking it while I'm not blocking IRC?
21:59:37  <SpComb> how are you blocking it?
21:59:43  <Bjarni> it's not working
21:59:49  <Bjarni> when I try to get it from somebody else
21:59:51  <SpComb> I certainly get CTCP replies from you
21:59:56  <Bjarni> people can get mine
22:00:24  <Bjarni> kind of like a firewall that's turned the wrong way
22:01:11  <Bjarni> google didn't really help me :(
22:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably a client setting
22:01:51  <Bjarni> it used to work
22:01:59  <Bjarni> then the router died and I put up a new one
22:02:05  <Bjarni> then it stopped working
22:02:25  <Bjarni> that's why I presume it to be a port forward issue
22:03:06  <alexboom> i can play heartlighted now, thanks for your help and goodbye!
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22:26:48  <pavel1269> i have a question to anyone who understand this(c/c++) ... how can be called function without any parameters, but still that function have 3 parameters??
22:27:17  <pavel1269> i am talking about npf.cpp line 713 and so on
22:27:34  * Bjarni tries to decrypt that question
22:27:38  <murray> im no guru on c/c++ but from other langs i'd guess that there exists a function with the same name that takes no parameters
22:27:48  <pavel1269> false :)
22:28:05  <SmatZ> default parameter values?
22:28:10  <pavel1269> no
22:28:11  <Bjarni> that's one possibility. Another one is default values
22:28:18  <pavel1269> _npf_aystar.FoundEndNode = NPFSaveTargetData;
22:28:27  <pavel1269> static void NPFSaveTargetData(AyStar* as, OpenListNode* current)
22:28:36  *** CIA-1 [~CIA@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28:43  <pavel1269> is there defaul values?
22:28:52  <SmatZ> no
22:28:57  <Bjarni> not in this one
22:29:01  <SmatZ> you are storing function pointer
22:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no function call
22:29:08  <SmatZ> you are not calling the function
22:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> a function call would need ()
22:29:16  <pavel1269> hmm
22:29:30  <pavel1269> so whats this?
22:29:31  <pavel1269> _npf_aystar.FoundEndNode = NPFSaveTargetData;
22:29:34  <Bjarni> static void NPFSaveTargetData(AyStar* as = NULL, OpenListNode* current = NULL) <-- this is what default values look like (but I think it wouldn't make sense in this function)
22:29:54  <SmatZ> storing some callback function
22:29:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you store the position of NPFSaveTargetData in _npf_aystar.FoundEndNode
22:30:05  <SmatZ> that will be callend when end node is found
22:30:26  <pavel1269> :-/
22:30:30  <Eddi|zuHause> so when you call "_npf_aystar.FoundEndNode(params)", you actually call "NPFSaveTargetData(params)"
22:30:46  <pavel1269> Eddi|zuHause: i can't find it anywhere
22:30:58  <Bjarni> pointers to functions... a cool tool that can easily be confusing ;)
22:31:29  <pavel1269> i am totaly confused
22:31:39  <pavel1269> and i am lost in code :X
22:31:42  <Bjarni> then they are totally cool
22:32:09  <Bjarni> do you know what a pointer to a function is?
22:32:12  <pavel1269> no
22:32:13  <pavel1269> :)
22:32:13  <SmatZ> when member functions are not worked with, they are cool
22:32:39  <Bjarni> ok..
22:32:43  <Eddi|zuHause> src/aystar.cpp:165:                     aystar->FoundEndNode(aystar, current);
22:32:44  <pavel1269> i need to add to one function one parameter and ... i cant found where it have specified parameters :))
22:33:34  <Eddi|zuHause> there is your function call
22:33:55  <Bjarni> say we have two functions (A and B). We also have a function pointer (P). If we set P = *A then P() will do the same as A() and if we set P = *B, then P() will do the same as B()
22:33:56  <pavel1269> Eddi|zuHause: taht was example, i am searching .. AyStar_CalculateG
22:34:06  <glx> why do you need to add a parameter?
22:34:17  <Bjarni> this means that we can have a line saying P() and what it does depends on what we set P to be earlier
22:34:40  <Bjarni> P can even be a function argument if you like
22:34:51  <pavel1269> glx: because i am creating a patch which nead that?
22:35:06  <SmatZ> (this->*(fce))(PA_NONE, NULL, NULL); // this is ugly
22:35:09  <pavel1269> :'(
22:35:19  <Bjarni> pavel1269: did you understand my explanation?
22:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> pavel1269: so, the function call has 2 arguments, and the function definition takes 2 arguments, what is your problem?
22:35:35  * pavel1269 erading from start
22:35:38  <Bjarni> SmatZ: at least it's commented :P
22:35:48  <SmatZ> void (PluginPing::*fce)(ParTyp, ParData*, char*) = (_argtab[x].o); // this is fce
22:35:49  <SmatZ> :-)
22:36:02  <SmatZ> dereferencing member functions is ugly :-x
22:36:42  <pavel1269> Bjarni: yes :)
22:36:58  <pavel1269> thats interesting :)
22:37:08  <murray> lol
22:37:16  <pavel1269> Eddi|zuHause: my problem is, i need to add one argument
22:37:21  <Bjarni> murray: what evil deed did you do this time?
22:37:25  <glx> AyStar_CalculateG is not a function, it's a type
22:37:34  <Bjarni> it looks like it was successful since you are laughing
22:37:52  <hylje> glx: how descriptive a name
22:38:07  <pavel1269> glx: _npf_aystar.CalculateG = NPFRailPathCost;  break;
22:38:10  <murray> i watched you dereference a member function and did nothing about it :o
22:38:14  <pavel1269> NPFRailPathCost is a function
22:38:25  <glx> yes
22:38:33  <pavel1269> AyStar_CalculateG *CalculateG; so here is function
22:38:46  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a variable declaration
22:38:58  <glx> CalculateG is a pointer to a function
22:39:01  <pavel1269> i see it :) g8
22:39:12  <pavel1269> thank you very much
22:39:30  <glx> anyway I don't see the need to modify aystar framework
22:39:56  <SmatZ> :-)
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22:41:26  <pavel1269> i am making(trying to make) programable signals and i need for that in this function  NPFRailPathCost Vehicle to define it's properties
22:41:43  <pavel1269> atm i am working on NPF
22:44:16  <Gonozal_VIII> why npf?
22:44:33  <Eddi|zuHause> because YAPF is even more confusing? :p
22:45:36  <pavel1269> Gonozal_VIII, Eddi|zuHause: i want to do both
22:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause> but as glx indicated, if you want to modify core functions of aystar, you are probably approaching this the wrong way
22:46:13  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think many people still use npf
22:47:08  <Eddi|zuHause> pavel1269: have you studied the way PBS changed the behaviour of NPF?
22:47:22  <pavel1269> no
22:47:34  <pavel1269> how can i and where? :)
22:47:37  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you should do that first ;)
22:47:48  <Eddi|zuHause> branches/PBS
22:48:04  <pavel1269> btw, if i want to add that i must do it in this function: NPFRailPathCost
22:48:08  <Eddi|zuHause> especially the branch point, which provides a pure PBS diff
22:49:19  <pavel1269> i dont see anything like PBS
22:50:13  <pavel1269> sounds like ... i will try Yapf first :)
22:50:35  <glx> use user_target to pass anything you want
22:51:00  <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd log 3472
22:51:15  <pavel1269> user_target?
22:51:19  <glx> look how it's done in AyStar_AiPathFinder_CalculateG
22:51:40  <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 3472
22:51:41  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by Darkvater :: r3472 /trunk (52 files in 5 dirs) (2006-01-29 18:57:26 UTC)
22:51:42  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - [PBS] Remove from trunk. Anyone interested can still find it in branch/pbs. This reverts revisions r3158, r3140, r3075, r2977, r2674, r2625, r2621, r2529, r2528, r2525, r2524, r2519, r2517, r2516, r2507, r2499. (in conjunction with Tron)
22:51:43  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: - The only change is that the nsignalsw.grf file is kept and that existing nightlies with PBS signals get those signals converted to combo-signals.
22:52:34  <glx> aystar is a very nice framework
22:52:57  <pavel1269> but it works only woth NPF right?
22:54:45  <Eddi|zuHause> YAPF has similar structure to NPF, only uses different programming structures (optimised for execution speed)
22:55:03  <pavel1269> btw, AI have there PathNode start_node; so i can get Vehicle from that true?
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23:23:37  <pavel1269> gn
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