Log for #openttd on 4th January 2008:
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00:00:32  <pv2b> glx: hey, is that code in progress so that shift-click predition of costs takes into account town ratings? :-)
00:01:14  <glx> not for shift click
00:01:36  <glx> but the dry run before the real execution
00:01:46  <glx> related to FS#1616
00:02:19  <pv2b> ah
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00:12:31  <pv2b> what does tractive effort mean in the new realistic train acceleration anyway? how is the tractive effort different from raw power?
00:13:09  <Gonozal_VIII> you can't accelerate when your wheels slip
00:13:28  <pv2b> ah, i understand
00:13:32  <pv2b> larger weight->more t.e.
00:13:44  <pv2b> which is why a diesel even though it has more power, has a lower tractive effort
00:14:14  <Eddi|zuHause> also: only driven axles count for t.e.
00:14:18  <Gonozal_VIII> depends on more factors i guess... shape of the wheels, number of wheels, metal that the wheels are made of...
00:15:03  <Eddi|zuHause> a 2'C1' engine usually has lower TE than a D or E engine
00:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but probably behaves better on high speeds
00:16:30  <pv2b> F = ma, P = Fv.... hmm. :-)
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00:19:47  <Gonozal_VIII> a 75ps tractor can pull more logs through the forrest than a 300ps sports car :-)
00:20:49  <Gonozal_VIII> (don't try this at home kids)
00:20:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why you put 2'C1' engines in front of passenger trains and E engines in front of wood trains :p
00:21:32  <Tekky> has anyone tested hertogjan's physics patch? His description sounds interesting to me:
00:21:35  <pv2b> damn, this should be easy
00:21:42  <Tekky> However, I don't know if the patch itself is good.
00:21:52  <Eddi|zuHause> modern engines mostly have Bo'Bo'
00:21:56  <pv2b> i mean, it's just simple kinematics, but i'm kinda having a hard time understanding this right now. i'm going to have to mess around with the numbers a bit :-)
00:22:09  <pv2b> was a few years since i studied that.
00:22:51  <Eddi|zuHause> which physics patch do we actually have in the game?
00:25:24  <Tekky> good question :) I have no idea....
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00:27:25  <Arbitrary> <-- this any use?
00:28:54  <Rubidium> Tekky: very interesting that you can run a steam engine at way above their designed maximum speed, but is that realistic?
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00:32:13  <Tekky> well, if it is downhill, it seems certainly realistic :)
00:32:32  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think that would be good for the engine
00:32:56  <Eddi|zuHause> think Back to the Future III ;)
00:33:22  <Tekky> hehe, I forgot what exactly happened there... I remember only very vaguely.
00:33:45  <Tekky> they used a speeding steam engine to trigger the time machine or something like that :)
00:33:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah ;)
00:34:18  <Sacro> zomg, 88mph
00:34:25  * Sacro grabs teh flux capacitor
00:34:33  <Gonozal_VIII> that's nice, you could arrive before you even started
00:34:48  <Eddi|zuHause> 88mph is not even a high speed...
00:35:08  <Tekky> ah, yes, I remember now :) The time machine only worked at that speed :)
00:37:58  <Tekky> As far as I know, acceleration with the current realistic acceleration patch is a constant force. In reality, however, trains start accelerating faster and then stop accelerating gradually, before they reach their maximum speed. This is similar to a car.
00:39:17  <Gonozal_VIII> no it's not constant
00:40:29  <Gonozal_VIII> when you overload a train, you can see that
00:41:03  <Gonozal_VIII> it slowly reaches a point below its max speed where it can't accelerate anymore
00:42:54  <Sacro> and then engages the warp drives
00:43:01  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
00:44:19  <Gonozal_VIII> transition drive
00:44:27  <Gonozal_VIII> or linear :-)
00:47:10  <Gonozal_VIII> linear drive puts you in a bubble where normal physics don't apply and you can reach a million times the speed of light :-)
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00:48:39  <Tekky> aha, maybe I don't observe these effects because I am using Leviathan 4 trains.
00:49:01  <Tekky> that is the best maglev train.
00:49:31  <Tekky> I guess the acceleration is near constant with these trains, even if I have a train length of 24 (12 tiles long)
00:49:40  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: bloody germans, shutting down our motorways
00:50:02  <Gonozal_VIII> maglev trains can accelerate linear
00:50:37  <Gonozal_VIII> you can just put more energy through the track when the air resistance increases
00:50:37  <Tekky> aha, that's why....
00:52:10  <Gonozal_VIII> your only limit with accelerating a maglev train is the safety of the passengers :-)
00:53:40  <Gonozal_VIII> but in the game the maglev engines have horsepower... so they should also accelerate slower if you overload them
00:54:46  <pv2b> it's reasonable for maglev engines to have horsepower
00:54:53  <pv2b> there's a limit to how many amps you can feed
00:55:11  <Sacro> 1.21 JIGGAWATTS?
00:55:25  <pv2b> jigga-what?
00:55:29  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
00:55:56  <Sacro> someone knows :p
00:56:28  <ln-> Sacro: are you talking about jigowatts?
00:56:33  <Sacro> ln-: possibly
00:56:43  <ln-> even probably
00:57:11  <Sacro> for those who don't udnerstand ( and yes it is on topic )
00:57:27  <Belugas> hehe
00:57:37  <Belugas> i have not done a thing, Sacro ;)
00:57:54  <Sacro> Belugas: makes a change...
00:58:24  <Belugas> lol
00:58:35  <ln-> Sacro: they have mis-spelled jigo
00:58:57  <Sacro> ln-: tis technically gigawatt
00:59:04  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- hehe
00:59:07  <pv2b> giga pronounced as "jiga" actually isn't wrong, it's archaic but not wrong :-)
00:59:30  <ln-> Sacro: it was "jigowatt" in the script of the movie, i've been told.
00:59:41  <Sacro> yes, true
01:00:03  <ln-> this looks interesting, and the comments are funny:
01:00:28  <pv2b> ln-: probably quite illegal too :-)
01:01:05  <Sacro> well the UK has followed the germans
01:01:11  <Sacro> most software on my laptop will soon be illegal
01:06:20  <Gonozal_VIII> ?
01:07:11  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: See el reg
01:10:20  <Sacro> ooh
01:10:22  <Sacro> le reg!
01:11:39  <UnderBuilder> le reg?
01:11:42  <Gonozal_VIII> wasn't hard to find out what el reg was supposed to mean but there are hundreds of articles
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02:00:06  <bumblebee> hello, can someone tell me were to find the list over the hot keys? :)
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02:03:53  <Gonozal_VIII>
02:04:04  <Gonozal_VIII> google is your friend ;-)
02:04:20  <bumblebee> ah, sorry, ofc is it :P
02:04:30  <bumblebee> ty
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02:33:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11751 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Enumify some widgets (and others) and while at it, apply some code style
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03:04:33  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11752 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix(r11745): Silence a MSVC warning (glx)
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03:11:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11753 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp:
03:11:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: re-indent the switch case structures, as to be more code style oriented.
03:11:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Hoping it makes the whole file easier to follow/read
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03:31:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11754 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Fix(r11753): One too much command separator (;). Thanks glx for spotting
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07:47:13  <dih> good (?:(?:morn|even)ing|afternoon)
07:48:22  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
07:48:30  <Gonozal_VIII> abend ;-)
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07:51:24  <dih> :-P
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07:57:57  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm does somebody know what the maglev version of sprite 2437 is? (and the following 7 sprites)
07:58:21  <Gonozal_VIII> trg1r
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08:00:20  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm i think i found it... 4366
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09:08:27  <Gonozal_VIII> the maglev depot button and cursor are not in trg1r.grf :S
09:08:54  <peter_> re
09:09:03  <peter_> hmm?
09:09:21  <Gonozal_VIII> can't find them
09:10:36  <Gonozal_VIII> been looking through those 5k sprites 3 times now...
09:11:25  <peter_> they're in the openttd base grf
09:12:03  <Gonozal_VIII> really? that's strange
09:12:18  <Gonozal_VIII> the other maglev stuff is in trg1r
09:15:01  <Gonozal_VIII> but you're right... found them
09:15:27  <Gonozal_VIII> thanks... but how can i replace sprites from the openttd.grf with a newgrf?
09:15:46  <DaleStan> Actions 5 and/or A.
09:16:07  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
09:16:07  <DaleStan> But which and how is poorly documented at best. Ask your devs to elaborate.
09:18:08  <Gonozal_VIII> thanks for the info
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09:48:17  <Rubidium> using action 5 is the safest way to do it (won't work on 0.5.3 and less though)
09:49:04  <Rubidium> on the other hand the offsets for action A would differ between 0.5.3 and the current versions too and might get changed in the future too, though the action 5 offsets will remain stable
09:49:59  <Gonozal_VIII> it doesn't have to work with old versions
09:50:57  <Rubidium> then use action 5
09:51:16  <Gonozal_VIII> i'll try, thanks :-)
09:51:19  <peter_> is there a document list of offsets?
09:51:20  <peter_> +ed
09:53:21  <Rubidium> no(t yet)
09:55:59  <peter_> sounds like a job for Gonozal_VIII on the wiki ;)
09:56:47  <Gonozal_VIII> that would require that i figure it out myself first^^
09:57:50  <Rubidium> Gonozal_VIII: svn co svn:// && gimp split/openttdgui.pcx
09:58:34  <Rubidium> and there they are, and all have the correct number except the last two (they don't have a number yet)
10:00:46  <Rubidium> <sprite-number> * <length> 05 95 01 \b74
10:00:50  <Rubidium> <real sprite>
10:01:16  <Rubidium> would replace the maglev depot cursor (IIRC)
10:02:19  <Gonozal_VIII> :S
10:02:57  <Gonozal_VIII> somehow my grf disables maglev, yay^^
10:05:09  <Gonozal_VIII> and i messed up some town houses and most of the bridge ramps face in the wrong direction..
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10:10:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11755 /trunk/src/debug.cpp: -Fix: Debug level string buffer was not long enough to contain all debug levels.
10:12:09  <Gonozal_VIII> ok, the mess is not too bad...
10:14:55  <Gonozal_VIII> what is \b74? 74 in hex?
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10:18:49  <Gonozal_VIII> yay depot cursor works
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10:27:21  <Gonozal_VIII> how did you get that 74?
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10:40:35  <peter_> probably from SPR_CURSOR_MAGLEV_DEPOT   = SPR_OPENTTD_BASE + 74,
10:40:52  <Gonozal_VIII> ah... makes sense
10:40:59  <peter_> in src/table/sprites.h
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10:49:59  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe all the problems i had with the bridges and houses were the fault of a single wrong offset
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11:16:50  <Gonozal_VIII> yay, got all cursors and buttons right
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12:36:14  <sanitarium> Is anyone around that can help me with a specific compile issue with r11748? (hi, by the way! Nice to meet you hehe)
12:38:35  <Gonozal_VIII> not if you don't write what the compile issue is (i can't help anyways) [why do i know your nick?]
12:39:41  <peter_>
12:40:11  <sanitarium> sorry :p the last person I asked was a windows user lol... anyway, I noticed with this nightly it has set my default data directory to home/me/.openttd  instead of /openttd/bin/data   and I have never seen this before.   Is there any way to get it to save my games etc.. in the /bin/data directory like normal or am I stuck with it this way?
12:41:01  <sanitarium> I had to specify the revision number in this compile (which I don't usually do) because I recently started using trams newgrf's in my games. Would this have something to do with why it changed the /data location?
12:41:10  <peter_> check the ./configure options
12:41:19  <peter_> there's a section on paths
12:42:13  <Gonozal_VIII> there was a lot of talk about default path stuff for macs
12:44:00  <sanitarium> thanks peter, checking now :)
12:44:18  <sanitarium> Gonozal_VIII: was it changed recently?
12:44:53  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't know... they talked about it a lot
12:45:29  <sanitarium> Ah! You know what I think would be GREAT? I wish we could have a click and drag buy land tool....its so anoying to have to buy it once square at a time
12:45:51  <Gonozal_VIII> you have that in singleplayer
12:46:08  <Gonozal_VIII> disabled in multi because it's annoying
12:46:29  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
12:46:54  <Gonozal_VIII> should be server setting
12:47:30  <sanitarium> it worked!!! peter thanks so much!
12:47:43  <sanitarium> yes, I am very surprised because I am not used to messing with options :D
12:47:50  <sanitarium> <--- is not vry technically minded hehe
12:48:27  <sanitarium> Gonozal_VIII: I cannot click and drag to buy there a key combination to do it?
12:48:36  <sanitarium> (sorry for all the dumb questions)
12:48:59  <Gonozal_VIII> strange..
12:49:03  <Gonozal_VIII> that used to work
12:49:38  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess that was miniin or chrisin
12:50:08  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't buy land often
12:50:10  <sanitarium> ah thats alright.... this game is great anyway.. i remember when I had only TTD on a 486...I'd literally  walk away from my computer for years at a time waiting for something to happen hehe
12:50:40  <sanitarium> neither do I...but everytime I do, I think "man that would be a GREAT feature"
12:51:42  <sanitarium> Before when I ran the game from konsole it would use the correct /bin/data directory, whereas a shortcut on my desktop would use the .openttd/ directory... I had thought I was doing something wrong.
12:51:48  <sanitarium> Anyway, thanks for your help guys I really appreciate it :)
12:52:50  <Gonozal_VIII> ouch, it's 2pm already and i didn't get any sleep yet
12:53:59  <sanitarium> its only 11:56pm here
12:54:28  <Gonozal_VIII> where are you?
12:54:34  <sanitarium> Victoria, Australia
12:54:39  <sanitarium> you?
12:54:40  <Gonozal_VIII> ah i see
12:54:44  <Gonozal_VIII> austria
12:54:59  <sanitarium> ohhh whats the weather like? I got lots of crappy summer heat to swap if you want it?
12:55:16  <sanitarium> In fact I will send it free :D :D (there has to be an IRC option here somewhere...!)
12:55:31  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe, you can have our -11° and half meter snow
12:55:50  <sanitarium> awwww we NEVER get snow :(
12:56:07  <sanitarium> and yes I'd love to...although I'd probably be complaining about the darn cold in about 1/2 hour
12:56:48  <sanitarium> Anyway, its late (and cooler finally!) so I must be off...although I'm pretty inept at this computer don't be surprised if I come bother you guys again!
12:56:58  <Gonozal_VIII> never snow, really? even in summer?
12:57:25  <sanitarium> no, no snow EVER....well except some in the mountains in our country...although most of THAT is man made snow
12:58:19  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought there would be some snow in the south...
12:59:10  <sanitarium> Victoria is South-East Australia and we don't have any... Victoria is of course, the coolest state (temperature wise)
12:59:46  <sanitarium> Anyway, I really must be off (sorry) got some pesky housework to do!
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13:15:19  <fjb> Moin
13:15:25  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
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13:16:00  <Brianetta> Dudes, I got a segv when I try to play my 0.5 game
13:16:11  <Brianetta> I have it halted in gdb right now (:
13:16:19  <Brianetta> 0.6beta2
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13:17:53  <Rubidium> can you post the backtrace on
13:18:33  <peter_> assuming it's a debug build, heh
13:18:40  <Brianetta>
13:18:54  <Brianetta> it isn't, but I can build one
13:19:05  <Brianetta> I do have an unstripped binary
13:19:14  <peter_> ok, unstripped build, heh
13:19:30  <Brianetta> It's a newgrf-heavy game
13:19:42  <Brianetta> I can provide all relevant wossnames
13:19:59  <peter_> a savegame might be useful
13:20:05  <Brianetta> I haev a few
13:20:12  <Brianetta> they're the same game, but years apart
13:20:27  <Brianetta> I was going to show it to my boss, but it kept dumping
13:20:39  <Brianetta> so I rebuilt it with stripping disabled
13:20:44  <Brianetta> and got gdb to run it
13:21:26  <Gonozal_VIII> to your boss?
13:21:42  <Brianetta> yeah
13:21:47  <peter_> Gonozal_VIII, he clearly wants to get sacked :D
13:21:57  <Brianetta> He was just showing me glist!
13:22:12  <Brianetta> Recounting tales of how he beat his six-year-old-son, and then got trounced in teh rematch
13:22:42  <peter_> dishwasher tablets?
13:23:30  <Brianetta> glist is a free RTS
13:23:41  <Brianetta> I think that's its name
13:24:11  <peter_> doesn't appear in google
13:24:19  <Gonozal_VIII> and rts is like glist where you have to pay
13:24:29  <Gonozal_VIII> perfectly logical
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13:24:51  <Brianetta> ah
13:24:51  <Brianetta> glest
13:24:57  <Brianetta> I knew it was something like that
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13:25:21  <Brianetta>
13:25:34  <Brianetta> Rubidium: That's the saved game
13:25:47  <Brianetta> If you need any of the newgrfs, let me know the md5sum
13:26:10  <peter_> heh, still using old pgs
13:26:38  <Brianetta> Stations?
13:26:44  <Brianetta> There's a reason for old stations
13:26:44  <peter_> yeah
13:26:49  <peter_> license probably
13:26:51  <Brianetta> unambiguous licensing
13:27:37  <peter_> old ukrs too
13:27:40  <peter_> hmm
13:27:49  <Brianetta> It is?
13:27:54  <Brianetta> Shouldn't be too old
13:28:08  <peter_> ooh, bug
13:28:13  <Brianetta> You saw it?
13:28:20  <peter_> different bug
13:28:23  <Brianetta> oh
13:28:30  <peter_> when you load a game with incompatible grfs, the game starts paused
13:28:40  <Brianetta> Mine started fine
13:28:56  <Brianetta> I think it found the relevant old versions around the place
13:28:58  <peter_> if you try to load a game, it then unpauses it instead of (keeping it) paused
13:28:59  <Gonozal_VIII> why is that a bug? sounds like a feature
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13:29:41  <peter_>  = (const SpriteGroup *) 0x1d
13:29:45  <peter_> not a good pointer value...
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13:32:37  <Wolf01> hello
13:34:09  <peter_> (gdb) print set
13:34:09  <peter_>  = 5
13:34:09  <peter_> (gdb) print totalsets
13:34:09  <peter_>  = 4
13:34:11  <peter_> pom te pom?
13:35:08  <peter_> gdb) print v->cargo.Count()
13:35:08  <peter_>  = 50
13:35:08  <peter_> (gdb) print v->cargo_cap
13:35:08  <peter_>  = 25
13:35:12  <peter_> hmmz indeed
13:36:07  <peter_> i guess some callback was implemented
13:36:55  <peter_> or that might be cos my grfs are different... heh
13:37:09  <peter_> it's a segfault at the right place though
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13:40:37  <Brianetta> (:
13:40:37  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:40:42  <Brianetta> I found a bug (:
13:40:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11756 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: Out of bounds access caused if a vehicle's cargo amount was higher than its capacity when resolving sprite groups.
13:41:24  <peter_> well that was easy
13:41:29  <Brianetta> Best kind.
13:41:36  <peter_> assuming it's the same bug, heh
13:41:50  <Gonozal_VIII> aaaaah you're peter1138
13:41:59  <Brianetta> haha
13:42:28  <peter_> do you still have the zip of the grfs (assuming it's the same ones) ?
13:42:33  <peter_> Gonozal_VIII, er, yeah
13:42:58  <Brianetta> peter_: Not so much The Zip as a damned huge folder with loads of grfs in
13:43:02  <Gonozal_VIII> i thought you were a random new peter^^
13:43:31  <Brianetta> including subfolders containing earlier versions
13:43:41  <peter_> hmm, i have a 24MB folder of grfs
13:43:59  <peter_> 4MB of pikka's stuff
13:49:12  <peter_> well i guess you can just try the latest revision
13:50:08  <peter_> also
13:50:14  <peter_> i need a non-debug build to run this map
13:50:20  <peter_> even on my 5600+...
13:50:27  <peter_> (silly dualcore obsession)
13:52:32  <peter_> heh, white has stuck trains due to an inability to use presignals properly
13:57:03  <Brianetta> (:
13:57:11  <Brianetta> I was brown
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13:57:42  <hylje> no more brown?
13:57:58  <Wolf01> [14:42:00] <Gonozal_VIII> aaaaah you're peter1138 <- he is disguised to hide from me, but don't tell him i know his deceit :P
13:58:18  <hylje> that's fairly meta, you know
13:59:04  <Wolf01> [14:57:21] <Brianetta> I was brown <- eeek Michael Jackson
13:59:31  <SmatZ> hello
13:59:38  <Wolf01> hi SmatZ
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14:00:01  <SmatZ> hello Wolf01
14:00:02  <peter_> damn it
14:00:08  <peter_> i should've got Brianetta to post it to flyspray
14:00:14  <peter_> would look better in the bugs-fixed stats ;)
14:00:24  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
14:01:05  <Brianetta> I never managed to get a flyspray account working.
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14:01:22  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
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14:01:24  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:01:50  <Gonozal_VIII> tokai is a glx clone?
14:02:08  <Wolf01> no
14:02:26  <Wolf01> Joins: tokai (
14:02:26  <Wolf01> Joins: glx (
14:02:54  <Gonozal_VIII> tokai is a german glx clone?
14:02:59  <Digitalfox_> lol
14:03:00  <Wolf01> coincidence
14:03:01  <glx> stop that now
14:03:35  * Gonozal_VIII stops that now
14:05:43  <tokai> 'zup?
14:06:00  <Gonozal_VIII> not much, not much
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14:06:55  <peter_> hmmmm
14:07:08  <peter_> "Please read the following license agreement carefully."
14:07:16  <peter_> "I accept the terms in the license agreement ... ..."
14:07:19  <peter_> useful :p
14:07:24  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
14:07:43  *** divo [] has quit []
14:07:46  <Gonozal_VIII> it's written in white fonts size 0
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14:12:56  <pavel1269> hi
14:13:00  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
14:13:01  <Wolf01> hi
14:23:27  <peter_> hi
14:28:44  <SmatZ> hi
14:28:51  <Brianetta> hi
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14:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Gonozal_VIII> you have that in singleplayer <- that was a user patch, it is not in trunk
14:50:05  <Gonozal_VIII> i realised that some time later
14:50:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> although i don't really know the reason why it isn't
14:50:56  <pavel1269> !loga
14:50:57  <SpComb> Logs: (old: )
14:50:57  <pavel1269> !logs
14:51:28  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't like to buy land in singleplayer because it looks ugly
14:51:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> Gonozal_VIII: you are kinda slow in realising things, could that be? ;)
14:52:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, buying land should only mark it, not clear it immediately
14:52:34  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, but i make up for that with my ability to forget anything important fast
14:54:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> ok, then it's all right ;)
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15:11:14  <Gonozal_VIII> what's the trick with action 4?
15:14:02  <Gonozal_VIII> bah... tired.. sleeping... night
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15:20:06  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: what do you mean?
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15:36:28  <dih> !seen Bjarni
15:36:33  <dih> @seen Bjarni
15:36:33  <DorpsGek> dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 21 hours, 22 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: actually I was thinking about human beings
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15:39:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r11757 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf.h):
15:39:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix(r11727): Don't use a function's default parameter when the value can be (more adequately, even better) computed from another source.
15:39:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Thanks peter1138.
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15:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> how many of my "default value" issues is that going to fix?
15:44:04  <Belugas> only ine, the one i introduced
15:44:09  <Belugas> "my" ?
15:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> well... i have had a few newgrf issues, which i believe they are of "default value" nature
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15:47:34  <Belugas> could you explain a little more, i'm totally lost...
15:48:27  <peter_> bugs of the unreported variety, maybe?
15:49:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> most have been resolved, i believe
15:49:57  <Belugas> most?  which ones are remaining?
15:50:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> e.g. BR 01 wagon override set loading speed to 0 was resolved
15:50:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> ore does not count as freight in DBSetXL/Alpine, that was not resolved, afaik
15:51:05  <Belugas> does it count as freigh in ttdp?
15:51:13  <Belugas> can you re-check in ottd?
15:51:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i tested it, and it did in ttdp
15:53:11  <Belugas> you mean "Bulk freight (Coal,Grain etc.,Ore,Fruit)"  ? as in Cargo Classes, prop 28,29?
15:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> as in, the freight multiplier does not apply
15:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> i rechecked TTDP, it works there
15:56:56  <Belugas> fun... i do not know what property/action to check... none seems to refer toyour wording :(
15:57:31  <Belugas> unless it's a callback or something alike
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15:59:34  <Belugas> ha... there is a patch option... ok...
15:59:36  <Belugas> that's a start
16:00:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> in openttd, it works correctly in temperate, but not in alpine (arctic)
16:00:40  <Belugas> and it's linked to the cargo...
16:00:58  <peter_> ,...,..., 0x15: /* Freight status */
16:00:58  <peter_> ,...,...,...,...cs->is_freight = (grf_load_byte(&buf) != 0);
16:00:58  <peter_> ,...,...,...,...break;
16:01:04  <peter_> check for that property, heh
16:01:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> so i would assume it to be somewhere in the newindustries part of alpine grf
16:01:29  <peter_> although alpine is probably pre-freight status
16:01:35  <Belugas> newgrf.cpp:1645, yes
16:02:48  <Belugas> my impression is that there is a problem with cargo loading in arctic.  would not be the first time...
16:03:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> i am pretty sure i mentioned that together with the loading speed problem back then
16:03:28  <Belugas> vehicle.cpp:2580 and train_cmd.cpp:62
16:03:40  <Belugas> gaaaaaah....
16:04:54  <Belugas> vehicle.cpp is meaningless to the problem, i think
16:05:54  <peter_> the grf doesn't set freight status
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16:07:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, so it magically fetches a default value in ttdp so it works?
16:07:32  <Belugas> undocumented feature?
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16:14:19  <peter_> ah, i think i can guess
16:15:00  <dih>
16:15:04  <peter_> the grf should really set the parameter though
16:15:09  <dih> planes landing on rv's could be a funny idea :-P
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16:39:46  <chb> hi
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16:50:42  <peter_> Eddi|zuHause3, do you compile?
16:50:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes?
16:52:06  <chb> I've got a question about gameplay - when do oil rigs appear ... is this set to a specific year or does it depend on water level?
16:53:29  <peter_> does alpine add any vehicles to use the new cargos?
16:53:35  <peter_> chb, it's a fixed year
16:53:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i never played alpine with default vehicles...
16:53:58  <chb> peter_»  i see .. when? ;-)
16:54:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume it enables the temperate vehicles in arctic
16:54:44  <peter_> - 0 tonnes of iron ore (40 tonnes) (x4)
16:54:46  <peter_> seems good
16:54:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> except for the - ;)
16:55:51  <peter_> it was the total list
16:55:53  <peter_> :p
16:56:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, but that - is still odd... passengers don't have it
16:56:36  <peter_> yeah they do
16:57:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> then it is missing in the german string?
16:57:27  <peter_> possibly so
16:57:37  <peter_> i guess it's in the string with (x...)
16:57:40  <peter_> but not the other one
16:58:15  <Belugas> chb: after 1960
16:58:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> STR_013F_TOTAL_CAPACITY                                         :{LTBLUE}{CARGO} ({SHORTCARGO})
16:58:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> STR_TOTAL_CAPACITY_MULT                                         :{LTBLUE}- {CARGO} ({SHORTCARGO}) (x{NUM})
16:58:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> there's not even anything to translate in there...
16:59:17  <chb> Belugas»  thanks ..
17:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> how does one report translation errors?
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17:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, i think the - is bad, because it looks like a negative number
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17:26:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11758 /trunk/src/ (cargotype.cpp table/cargo_const.h):
17:26:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix(ette): Populate 'void' cargo slots (unused slots in temperate and arctic)
17:26:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: with default data as per pre-newcargo support. These slots are still disabled by
17:26:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: default, but some NewGRFs (erroneously?) expect the default data.
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17:31:35  <peter_> god the bodges we have to do :p
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17:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> \o/
17:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> "fixette" :p
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18:03:43  <LA[lord]> hay
18:07:07  <pavel1269> hi
18:09:18  <LA[lord]> so...what's been up here lately...I just discovered that tt-forums have built-in IRC client, so I can chat :D
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18:18:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11759 /trunk/src/ (clear_cmd.cpp gui.h main_gui.cpp terraform_gui.cpp): -Feature: Add drag-n-drop support to the raise/lower land tools. Land is raised/lowered at the start and the rest of the area levelled to match. Patch by Roujin.
18:21:18  <UnderBuilder> yay :D
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18:21:36  <dih> a commit by peter?
18:21:45  <dih> well _hello_ there
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18:22:48  <peter__> right
18:22:55  <peter__> that's our user-supplied patch of the year...
18:23:42  <LA[lord]> hmm...of this year?
18:23:53  <dih> LOL
18:24:15  <peter__> an in-joke ;)
18:24:45  <LA[lord]> peter, you were faster than me in replying..:(
18:24:58  <LA[lord]> although both are 20:22
18:25:11  <peter__> hmm?
18:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> your clock is wrong
18:25:18  <LA[lord]> no
18:25:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
18:25:30  <Belugas> 60 seconds in a minute.... lots can be done :)
18:25:31  <LA[lord]> how wrong is it now?
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18:25:57  <LA[lord]> currently it's 20:25 here
18:26:09  <peter__> see
18:26:10  <Belugas> 13:31 in here
18:26:12  <peter__> it's two hours out
18:26:16  <peter__> 18:26 mine says
18:26:29  <LA[lord]> mine is 20:26 now too :D
18:26:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> and mine is 19:26
18:26:41  <Wolf01> 19.26 :)
18:26:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> must be a conspiracy
18:26:49  * LA[lord] laughs at belugas' clock
18:27:00  <peter__> do we have anyone on any of those crazy 15/30/45 zones?
18:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: are you always 5 minutes off?
18:27:17  <Belugas> always
18:27:20  <Belugas> dunno why
18:27:20  <LA[lord]> it's his personal timezone
18:27:24  <peter__> Eddi|zuHause3, he gets to go home five minute early :)
18:27:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, right ;)
18:27:47  <Belugas> hehe
18:28:16  <LA[lord]> think of it, Belugas is only person in the whole world who has his personal time-zone :D weee
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18:28:45  <Belugas> i did not kicked him, i swear!
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18:29:32  <LA[lord]> hmm...back button is wrong one :P
18:29:44  *** dih [] has joined #openttd
18:29:44  <LA[lord]> it disconnects :(
18:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> only when you use silly clients...
18:31:07  <LA[lord]> yes like the tt-forums integrated chat room
18:31:32  <LA[lord]> because this laptop isn't mine and I don't want to install any software here
18:31:50  <peter__> telnet exists :D
18:32:48  <pavel1269> 19:26 <Belugas> 13:31 in here ......... personal timezone ......... :D
18:32:58  <LA[lord]> hmmm...anyway, one post by Roujin some time ago gave me this thought/question..What was the last feature you implemented based on a post in OpenTTD Suggestions?
18:33:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> we do not read openttd suggestion thread ;)
18:34:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> ore wagons work great now, btw ;)
18:34:53  <LA[lord]> ""Unfortunately I have the impression that the suggestions forum is just there to give the normal players the *feeling* that someone listens to their ideas - and not really a base for devs and patch devs to look for ideas.""
18:34:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> now i have only one issue left
18:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> or two
18:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> or five
18:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> or ...
18:35:12  <LA[lord]> so to say, lot's of issues
18:35:18  <peter__> Eddi|zuHause3, next time :p
18:37:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> peter__: i knew i mentioned it:
18:38:51  <peter__> that's not the iron ore/freight trains one
18:39:10  <peter__> well, it's mentioned, but unrelated, heh
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18:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, if you insist, i will put a feature request for PBS on there ;)
18:41:32  <peter__> haha
18:41:39  <peter__>   Major opcode of failed request:  135 (XFree86-VidModeExtension)
18:41:39  <peter__>   Minor opcode of failed request:  10 (XF86VidModeSwitchToMode)
18:41:41  <peter__> BAH
18:41:51  <peter__> making ottd switch from fullscreen to windowed failing :(
18:42:02  <peter__> wondering what's wrong with this laptop
18:42:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> i never play full screen...
18:42:11  <peter__> it works perfectly well on my desktop
18:42:21  <peter__> same os...
18:43:59  <Belugas> not same hardware capability :)
18:44:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> passenger wagons are way too short...
18:44:43  <Belugas> ChangeDisplaySettings (in Win32) needs better param values, i think
18:44:44  <pavel1269> hmm i play always full screen when not testing
18:45:04  <LA[lord]> I don't
18:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> i always play maximised window
18:45:16  <peter__> i'm on linux
18:45:28  <LA[lord]> I hava 'always' lot's of things opened in taskbar
18:46:40  <pavel1269> but i have one mouse so i can control only one thing :P
18:47:21  <LA[lord]> so full-screen is a nono...Gotta pack three mice and four rats next time pavel :)
18:47:21  <Belugas> linux?   well...  obviously not a win32 problem :)
18:47:39  <pavel1269> lol
18:49:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> "XFree86" usually does not point to windows ;)
18:50:57  <pavel1269> somehow is v->max_speed changing ... where is then stored max train speed?
18:52:25  <Belugas> in the vehicle specs
18:53:34  <pavel1269> hmmmm .... v->u.rail.cached_max_speed?
18:53:46  <pavel1269> is train max speed all time there?
18:53:51  <pavel1269> or it's changing too?
18:55:27  <Belugas> have you checked in table\engines.h:366 ?
18:55:40  <Belugas> or you're not talking about the same thing at all...
18:55:47  <LA[lord]> hmm...Are betas builded on top of trunk? So in 0.6 stable the Roujin's patch will be in?
18:55:59  <Belugas> yup
18:56:04  <LA[lord]> yee
18:56:51  <LA[lord]> but RCs don't add features as such so they will be bugfixes of previous RCs?
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18:59:23  <Belugas> betas are not RCs
18:59:33  <LA[lord]> I know
18:59:38  <peter__> betas are pre-branch
18:59:42  <peter__> RCs are post-branch
19:00:00  <Belugas> when we'll release 0.6 rcs, they will follow the same pattern as other RCs
19:00:03  <peter__> for us, anyway :)
19:00:19  <peter__> i'm not quite sure of the point of those betas, heh
19:00:34  <peter__> possibly to get more testing of new feature
19:00:35  <peter__> +s
19:00:48  <peter__> (duh, that's the point of a beta)
19:01:17  <LA[lord]> maybe a unified point revision for multi
19:01:18  <pavel1269> Belugas: yes about this ... :/
19:01:25  <pavel1269> i hope :D
19:02:30  <Belugas> what i've shown yu are the default datas.
19:02:40  <Rubidium> the ideas of betas is to get lots of extra tester that would otherwise use RCs. The advantage of this is that we do not have to backport fixes made between betas whereas we have to do that for RCs
19:03:08  <Rubidium> i.e. less work for us, meaning we can effectively do more
19:03:14  <pavel1269> Belugas: but ... they must be stored in Vehicle or not? or the original value is taken from there??
19:03:50  <Belugas> taken from there
19:04:00  <Belugas> or supplied by grf files
19:04:16  <pavel1269> so i get it by engine id ...
19:04:27  *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
19:04:49  <pavel1269> i will search a bit in source, ty
19:05:32  <Belugas> engines.h might help yu
19:06:01  <pavel1269> no :)
19:06:09  <pavel1269> v->u.rail.cached_max_speed ...
19:06:16  <pavel1269> is what i wanted ;)
19:06:34  <pavel1269> it doesn't changed like max_speed did
19:23:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> there peter__ ... like that?
19:24:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i should have removed some irrelevant grfs...
19:29:35  <peter__> yeah
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19:29:46  <peter__> i knew about that bug
19:29:51  <peter__> of course, i always forgot about it, heh
19:30:00  <peter__> hi Roujin
19:30:09  <Roujin> hello
19:30:16  <Roujin> thanks for including my patch :)
19:30:22  <Roujin> nice surprise ^^
19:30:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i also knew about it, and i also forgot about it every time ;)
19:31:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> but now it's on flyspray, there's no excuse anymore ;)
19:31:08  <peter__> Roujin, no problem ;)
19:31:13  <peter__> Eddi|zuHause3, yeah, thanks, heh
19:31:17  <peter__> i know why it happens too
19:31:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume it's in the gradual loading handler
19:31:49  <peter__> yeah
19:31:56  <Roujin> what bug are you talking about?
19:32:09  <peter__> gradual loading sends the "you've got new cargo" event, rightly, and the grf triggers change the whole lot :o
19:32:13  <peter__> Roujin, and old newgrf one
19:32:22  <peter__> -d
19:33:21  <Roujin> oh ok, thought it was about something else when eddi mentioned gradual loading..
19:33:29  <Roujin> so nvm..
19:38:55  <Roujin> sooo.. reason why i actually bumped my area terraform patch is because i started working on a new patch
19:39:14  <Roujin> but i cant figure something out :/
19:41:17  <peter__> i think that was probably the first patch i haven't tweaked at all, heh
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19:45:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r11760 /trunk/src/ (6 files):
19:45:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: unify the way how other end of a tunnel/bridge is determined at some places
19:45:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: adding road/tram to tram/road bridge was cheaper by one tile
19:46:53  <hylje> ooh, exploit fix!
19:47:02  <hylje> (not really an exploit but .. EXAGGERATION)
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19:55:22  <Noldo> if I have function that returns CommandCost can actually return anything that can be casted to thet with constructors?
19:57:54  <SmatZ> :)
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20:23:31  <LA[lord]> hmm...I'm about to edit wiki, but I need to know for sure, 100% rating in stations decrease the output of an industry, yes?
20:24:04  <peter__> i shouldn't think so
20:24:18  <LA[lord]> ?
20:24:39  <LA[lord]> As I have understood about 80% is the best
20:24:50  <Noldo> that's what I have heard too
20:25:35  <LA[lord]> because 100% often decreases production...and not only on oil wells :P
20:25:58  <Noldo> ask the #openttdcoop people
20:26:36  <LA[lord]> in it says that 100% cargo transfer results in a 3.8% chance for output to grow, but it decreases
20:26:56  <LA[lord]> Noldo, I play #coop myself too, though not member :D
20:27:16  <Belugas> LA[lord], depends of the economic model, of the grf (if any)
20:27:19  <Belugas> and more, i'm sure...
20:27:52  <LA[lord]> but if I ain't got any grfs, this still "works"
20:29:13  <peter__> i don't remember there being any direct links between station rating and industry production
20:30:10  <LA[lord]> indusrty delivered percent depends on station rating doesn't it
20:30:26  <LA[lord]>
20:30:53  <LA[lord]> and this states what happens when production changes
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20:56:56  <Wolf01> 64x64 maps with all the ECS sets loaded are very cool
20:59:41  <glx> is there free space to build tracks?
20:59:51  <hylje> tracks are overrated
21:00:46  <Belugas> yeah, use road!
21:00:49  <peter__> you just need two bus stops
21:00:59  <peter__> with a large catchment area
21:06:42  *** Mucht [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
21:08:05  <Ailure> so
21:08:17  <Ailure> between 0.6 (beta) and the nightly
21:08:25  <Ailure> have there been anything intresting new stuff?
21:08:36  <Ailure> Been absent :)
21:09:06  <SmatZ> Ailure: raise/lower land with dragging ability
21:09:09  <SmatZ> commited just today :)
21:09:26  <Belugas> a good bunch of fixes
21:09:36  <Belugas> but we all kow fixes are boring
21:09:40  <Belugas> know
21:10:01  <Ailure> boring, but important
21:10:10  <Ailure> buggy software is not fun
21:10:14  *** peter__ [~petern@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:10:26  <Ailure> and nice, read about that patch on the forums earlier
21:15:58  <Wolf01> uh, i just wanted to try the new feature, when i clicked on the "create new scenario" button, i found that the images of the climates are changed ò_O
21:17:18  <DaleStan> Wolf01: You didn't happen to load any ECS GRFs, did you?
21:17:26  <Wolf01> yes i did
21:17:37  <Roujin> sneaky George :P
21:17:40  <DaleStan> Then unload them, and the changed climates will disappear.
21:17:41  <Wolf01> eheh
21:17:48  *** Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
21:18:33  <Wolf01> now... how can i use the new feature?
21:18:51  <Roujin> actually i wonder how a >patch< with a few lines of code should generate new icons ^^
21:19:10  <Wolf01> grfs maybe
21:19:54  <glx> Wolf01: ECSTown IIRC
21:20:22  <Roujin> just drag and drop somewhere with the raise or lower land tool selected
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21:20:36  <Wolf01> doesn't work :/
21:20:57  <Wolf01> in the editor
21:21:11  <Wolf01> where this feature is extremely useful
21:21:38  <Roujin> oooo but the editor has this adjustable size thingy already
21:23:51  <Wolf01> but behaves slightly differently
21:23:56  <Roujin> ok, it's not really the same... maybe drag and drop could also be enabled in the editor if the size is set to one
21:25:22  <Wolf01> Roujin, maybe i already asked you, but do you think is possible to have a tool to raise the land by keeping pressed the mouse button and move the mouse up and down?
21:28:17  <Wolf01> this way you can make pyramids very quicly, and bigger is the brush, bigger is the pyramid
21:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause3>,%2028.%20Aug%201948.png <- now the master question, how do i prevent the steam train from taking the middle exit without using a waypont on the right (train view) exit?
21:29:05  <hylje> use a waypoint as penalty
21:29:21  <hylje> pathfinder penalty
21:30:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> but that is not implemented, afaik
21:31:10  <hylje> it is
21:33:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't see adjustable penalty for it...
21:33:39  <Roujin> Wolf01: I'm afraid that would be too complicated for me.. that would require a whole new kind of drag-and-drop
21:35:54  <Roujin> I don't think there is anything that has such a kind of control yet in OpenTTD. Honestly I would not know how to do that :(
21:36:51  <hylje> now that's a goal ;)
21:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> there's drag&drop in the depot window
21:38:05  <Roujin> but it only needs to do something when you click or release
21:38:08  <Roujin> not inbetween
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21:39:20  <peter__> re
21:39:22  <Roujin> nah, that's not a project for me... I'll stick to little things i can actually manage ;)
21:39:25  <peter__> laptop suspended :o
21:39:30  <Belugas> oups...
21:39:36  <hylje> oops!
21:39:43  <Belugas> speaking of projects...
21:39:50  <peter__> keyboard didn't work when it came back
21:39:50  <Belugas>
21:40:13  <hylje> :o
21:40:19  <Roujin> maybe someone else is interested in that, so
21:40:23  <Roujin> HOLY CRAP
21:40:28  <hylje> i take that is *not* the well-engineered thing the other day
21:40:50  <Roujin> I'M OFF TESTING
21:40:59  <peter__> hmm
21:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> hylje: it doesn't work
21:43:11  <Belugas> does not seems to be a rewrite of the old pbs, the hackykid one
21:43:53  <Roujin> hmm can't apply it either
21:44:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> "This is not the official PBS! For that look in the other thread." <- maybe it is less official than he thinks it is :p
21:44:17  <Roujin> dang, now i crapped my pants for nothing :(
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21:44:28  <Belugas> it's a git diff
21:44:32  <peter__> it's a git diff
21:44:33  <peter__> er
21:44:36  <Belugas> lol
21:44:37  <peter__> damn it
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21:46:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> how does one convert that to a "real" diff?
21:46:30  <peter__> it is a real diff
21:47:05  <glx> use -p1 to apply that's all
21:47:16  <LA[lord]> Good night!
21:47:27  <Belugas> good idea, LA[lord], good idea...
21:47:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that did it ;)
21:47:32  <Belugas> Good night all!
21:47:35  <hylje> hivemind
21:47:54  <Wolf01> night
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21:51:33  <Roujin> good night belugas
21:53:11  <Roujin> ah worked for me now aswell... ooooh excitement :P
21:55:37  <peter__> meh
21:55:41  * peter__ waits 5 million years
21:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh hell is that slow...
21:58:26  * Roujin starts to faint as the compiler is currently at the letter m
22:00:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's very noisy on the console
22:03:36  <peter__> lol
22:03:44  <peter__> i get loads of train crashes on the title map
22:04:01  <Roujin> he said that in the forum thread :P
22:04:11  <glx> peter__: what did you do?
22:04:22  <glx> the new pbs?
22:04:58  <peter__> yeah, just loaded it
22:05:00  <peter__> now it's locked up :(
22:05:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> my trains are locked up, too...
22:05:34  <peter__> ah, and recovered. hm.
22:05:59  <Roujin> hehe maybe he wrote and tested it on a supercomputer only :P
22:06:02  <peter__> hmm, all signals are pbs
22:06:37  <peter__> ah
22:06:44  <peter__> seems to be junction based
22:07:09  <Roujin> tell us more :O
22:07:37  <Roujin> us being the poor people still compiling xD
22:09:36  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
22:09:47  <peter__> heh
22:10:14  <peter__> Eddi|zuHause3, if you can run it without a console window it runs much faster
22:10:32  <peter__> (^Z "bg", etc)
22:10:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, i figured that ;)
22:10:50  <peter__> that just means your trains crash/lock up quicker
22:10:51  <peter__> shame :(
22:11:39  <peter__> from what i can see
22:11:49  <peter__> only signals and junction tiles are actually reserved
22:11:58  <peter__> that may just be what's visible though
22:12:12  <peter__> but if not, that makes finding a crossing path harder
22:14:09  * peter__ reverts
22:14:19  <peter__> tis not quite ready yet, heh
22:14:53  <Roujin> lol
22:15:12  <Roujin> they ignore signals that point the other way?
22:15:41  <Roujin> i can't build one way lanes with that...?
22:16:11  <peter__> i didn't get that far
22:16:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> why harder? crossing paths must cross at a switch or crossing
22:16:59  <reto> hmm
22:17:12  <reto> is there a patch which allows to see how much traffic is on which rails?
22:17:21  <reto> like trains-passes/yearh
22:17:25  <peter__> Eddi|zuHause3, point :p
22:17:33  <reto> transparent = < 10, green < 20, orange.. etc.
22:17:43  <peter__> maybe it just doesn't see some touching paths as colliding
22:18:18  <reto> or avg/speed last year: full speed transparent, 75% speed orange (useful for jam detection
22:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> reto: there was a waypoint-statistics patch
22:20:38  <reto> Eddi|zuHause3: my idea would be for all tiles, not just for wayoints
22:20:51  <reto> kinda overlay the user could acitvate
22:21:22  <ln->  (barcodes)
22:21:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> i haven't had any problems in a new game yet...
22:22:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> someone should teach him how to do debug output ;)
22:24:52  <peter__> heh
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22:25:54  <Roujin> hm
22:26:27  <Roujin> either this patch does something very wrong, or i have understood something very wrong in terms of pbs signalling
22:26:58  <Bjarni> or both
22:27:06  <Roujin> trains are not supposed to go on a track which has one way signals facing AWAY from that train, or are they?
22:27:19  <peter__> well
22:27:25  <peter__> the driver had no red signal...
22:27:43  <Roujin> ...
22:27:53  *** Ailure [Cat@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:28:31  <pavel1269> Roujin: you are right
22:28:39  <pavel1269> but i know that only with YAPF
22:28:52  <pavel1269> NPF ... i retire from getting to it :D
22:30:48  <Bjarni> <peter__> the driver had no red signal... <-- well... that's real life. I think he meant inside the game
22:31:24  <Bjarni> but talking about real life signals whenever somebody shows up with an OTTD signal problem sounds like a good idea
22:31:51  <Bjarni> I guess I can do that without any problems :D
22:34:52  *** Lonestar79 [] has joined #openttd
22:35:27  <Lonestar79> Hello?
22:35:37  <Lonestar79> someone here?
22:35:53  <Roujin> yes, look at the list on the right
22:36:02  <Lonestar79> thx
22:36:13  <Roujin> these people are all here :P
22:36:18  <Lonestar79> just wanted to be sure someone really reads this
22:36:32  <Lonestar79> at least they  are logged in
22:36:44  <Lonestar79> but now to my question
22:37:23  *** Zothar [] has joined #openttd
22:37:47  <Lonestar79> I played TTD and TTD Patch in SP .. the AI was not really smart, but at least able to build up a working company..
22:38:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> don't finish that sentence :p
22:38:50  <Lonestar79> in OpenTTD all AI Players are hardly doing anything...
22:38:53  <Bjarni>  <Lonestar79> but now to my question <-- you already asked one at this time
22:39:06  <Bjarni> there is a 1 question for every 10th minute limit in here
22:39:12  <Bjarni> :P
22:39:17  <Lonestar79> D'oh
22:39:25  <Lonestar79> Ill wait
22:39:30  <Lonestar79> ;-)
22:39:31  <Bjarni> hahaha
22:39:38  <Bjarni> I just made up that rule :D
22:39:45  <Lonestar79> i know
22:40:12  <Bjarni> but the point is that questions like "can I ask a question?" is rather pointless.... just ask the question right away
22:40:38  <Lonestar79> i searched the forum for that thing ... but found nothing.
22:40:49  <Lonestar79> I didnt ask to ask a question
22:41:05  <Lonestar79> I just said that I will ask my question ;-)
22:42:08  <Lonestar79> I cannot believe that the AI behaves the same at other players and no one writes something about it
22:42:12  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:43:00  <peter__> you didn't search very well
22:43:15  <Bjarni> you searched the wrong one :P
22:43:18  <Lonestar79> I couldnt search for 'AI' :(
22:43:19  <Bjarni> or something
22:43:21  <SmatZ> Lonestar79: there are often bugreports about AI, and they are often closed very soon
22:43:31  <Lonestar79> hrm
22:43:46  <SmatZ> because old/new AI is not maintainted
22:44:19  <Lonestar79> I dont complain about the original TTD / TTDPatch AI ... it was not really good, but it wasnt that bad, too
22:44:55  <Lonestar79> so Open TTD got a complete different AI than TTD?
22:45:08  <SmatZ> Lonestar79:
22:45:33  <SmatZ> Lonestar79: no, but OTTD has many new features, and AI may be confused because of it
22:45:47  <Vikthor> Roujin: Actually I think that wolfc may have intended, that trains drive trough one way signals from back.
22:46:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> this is nice and all, but then there definitely needs to be a "never pass here" signal
22:47:09  <Lonestar79> maybe I should ask in another way:
22:47:59  <Lonestar79> who of you ( who plays SP) thinks ther is nearly NO difference wether play with AI or without?
22:48:22  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause3: Well it does seem like WIP. May be that is also planned
22:50:19  <Roujin> @eddi: agree
22:51:05  <Roujin> lonestar: i don't play with AI, but maybe that is because AI is not bright
22:51:43  <Lonestar79> all topics about bad AI I can see implicate that there IS an AI
22:51:51  <Roujin> but, there is a branch called noAI which aims to create a completely new AI
22:52:24  <Lonestar79> when I play I feel as if there is no AI at all... I dont feel AI isnt bright... I feel like AI is just nothing
22:52:39  <Roujin> currently that new AI works only with road vehicles though
22:52:55  <Lonestar79> hum ... I read about
22:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have not played with AI long before i started with TTD
22:53:38  <Lonestar79> I just wondered because of the signifficand drop of AI from TTD / TTDPatch to OpenTTD
22:53:53  <Lonestar79> Eddi: was?
22:55:41  <Lonestar79> however.... got to go to bed. my wife is just going and I got to go to work tomorrow
22:55:50  <Lonestar79> bye!
22:55:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> i meant i played without AI in TT (original)
22:56:03  <Bjarni> work tomorrow?
22:56:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> before i even found out TTD existed
22:56:08  <Bjarni> during the weekend?
22:56:31  <Lonestar79> yep ... I got to work 4 hours saturdays
22:56:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm. the depot finding does not take these reverse signals into account
22:57:00  <Lonestar79> bye... my girl is calling :-)
22:57:11  <Lonestar79> maybe I am on again...
22:57:24  <Bjarni> you do it that quick?
22:57:28  *** Lonestar79 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:04:45  <Roujin> hmm i asked in his thread about the signal issue
23:05:06  <Roujin> he answered "it is not a bug, it is a feature (TM)"
23:05:47  <Roujin> ok, seems i haven't gotten the hang out of pbs yet
23:06:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it's incomplete...
23:06:13  <UnderBuilder> what should I do?
23:07:01  <ln-> Bjarni: do you know Cocoa?
23:07:18  <Bjarni> err
23:07:21  <Bjarni> I know what it is
23:07:26  <Bjarni> but coding it.... tricky
23:07:30  <Roujin> bang, just managed to crash my first trains in my pbs test game :D
23:07:55  <Bjarni> Roujin: it's only a simulation... nobody died in real life
23:08:07  <Bjarni> at least that's what we keep telling ourselves about accidents like that
23:08:29  <Roujin> we're only telling ourselves that? O__O
23:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> we are not schitzophrenic
23:09:59  <Bjarni> either am I
23:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh this screws up so heavily with old savegames...
23:10:05  <Bjarni> but I might be
23:10:07  <Bjarni> :P
23:10:27  <Bjarni> me too
23:10:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> not even stop all and then release one train after another works right...
23:10:43  <Bjarni> anyway I read the strangest thing the other day
23:10:46  <Roujin> dang, the crashed trains left their pbs reservation
23:10:53  <Bjarni> Apple is getting sued for making a monopoly
23:11:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> Roujin: that is an improvement over the old version :p
23:11:09  *** Dark_Link- [] has joined #openttd
23:11:22  <Bjarni> because they are NOT using MS's wma in iTune store
23:11:23  <Roujin> no i mean they left... it there where it was
23:11:37  *** Dark_Link^ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:11:41  <Roujin> in what sense would that be an improvement? oO
23:11:49  <Bjarni> how can you be sued for making a monopoly because you are NOT using a Microsoft product???
23:12:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> Roujin: the old version removed them before the trains were fully removed :p
23:13:32  <Bjarni> heh
23:15:22  <Bjarni> how about implementing a system where a train drives slow enough to stop in front of any danger?
23:15:46  *** Zothar [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.79 [Firefox]]
23:16:15  <Bjarni> could be useful to enter a block with broken trains
23:16:34  <Bjarni> hmm
23:16:48  <Bjarni> that would likely need more CPU power than this feature is worth
23:16:56  <egladil> ln-: what do you want to do with cocoa?
23:17:11  <Bjarni> that's actually a good question :)
23:18:10  <ln-> well, as we all know, FTE is the best text editor on the planet -- see e.g.
23:18:34  <ln-> and it doesn't have a Cocoa port, so...
23:18:42  <ln-> nor any other Mac port besides X11
23:20:00  <ln-> so, the actual question is whether Cocoa provides something that can easily be used as the text area, i.e. fixed-width font, 16 colors
23:21:22  <egladil> it should
23:22:21  <egladil>
23:22:45  <egladil> that should cover it :)
23:23:42  <Bjarni> guys do you have any idea to why *something* just deleted everything inside ~/Library ?
23:24:02  <Bjarni> luckily I wasn't my account but it scared the hell out of me just the thought of losing everything
23:24:18  *** chb [] has quit [Quit: chb]
23:24:30  <egladil> huh?!? that wouldn't be fun at all
23:24:33  <Bjarni> it didn't look like the computer was attacked by any malware or anything
23:25:09  <ln-> egladil: but the point is not to use something like NSTextView, but to handle colors, input events and stuff within the program, and make the thing look like the one in screenshot.
23:25:10  <Bjarni> I spent a great deal of time looking at the computer and couldn't find anything wrong
23:25:17  <Bjarni> besides all the settings were gone
23:25:26  <ln-> sounds... interesting
23:25:45  <Bjarni> I searched the net too without any luck
23:26:07  <Bjarni> to be honest I'm at a loss to what happened.... meaning I have no way of preventing it from happening again
23:26:10  <ln-> Bjarni: try #macdev@freenode? (although it's not strictly a developmental question)
23:26:44  <Bjarni> how is this even considered to be a developer question at all?
23:26:58  <egladil> i bet you could get a NSTextView to look like in the screenshot by using a fixed width font and changing char colors
23:27:40  <Bjarni> it wasn't full disk or anything else like that one might suspect
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23:29:46  <pavel1269> gn
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23:32:07  <pv2b> Bjarni: very strange
23:32:14  <pv2b> but it's ok, you keep backups, right? :-)
23:32:19  <ln-> Bjarni: anyway, there are some people on #macdev who know something about mac stuff. (abuse them.)
23:32:46  <peter__> nini
23:32:59  *** peter__ [~petern@] has quit [Quit: peter__]
23:33:37  <Bjarni> <pv2b> but it's ok, you keep backups, right? :-) <-- wasn't my computer... I was told to come and take a look because it made no sense to the owner
23:34:38  <Bjarni> ok
23:34:44  <Bjarni> people of #macdev beware
23:34:50  <Bjarni> tomorrow I will come :P
23:35:19  <ln-> only tomorrow?
23:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> grmbl... i hate deadlocks...
23:35:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> i need a combo signal that does not behave like a presignal
23:35:53  <Bjarni> yeah tomorrow
23:36:15  <Bjarni> right now I'm not paying enough attention to IRC to ask strangers ;)
23:36:28  * Bjarni has something to prepare for tomorrow
23:36:38  <Bjarni> you see... I have to attend a meeting
23:36:45  <ln-> you're going on a date?
23:36:47  <dih> hello Bjarni
23:37:11  <Bjarni> <ln-> you're going on a date? <-- I sure hope not.... AFAIK no females will show up
23:37:24  <Bjarni> hi dih
23:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> not even the locomotive is female?
23:37:57  <dih> a sheloc :-P
23:38:08  <Bjarni> but there will not be any locomotives present either
23:38:11  <Bjarni> it's a meeting
23:38:18  <Bjarni> talk and paperwork
23:38:27  <dih> covet covet covet - NOT
23:38:31  <pv2b> -Feature: Add drag-n-drop support to the raise/lower land tools. Land is raised/
23:38:33  <pv2b> lowered at the start and the rest of the area levelled to match. Patch by Roujin
23:38:36  <pv2b> .
23:38:38  <pv2b> hmmm... sounds great. thanks :-)
23:39:21  <dih> try it - should be in the last nightly if i am not mistaken
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23:46:24  <Roujin> @pv2b it is not in the scenario editor tho
23:46:34  <Roujin> only in game
23:47:51  <GT> Hi Guys, first time on IRC, hope I'm not interrupting any discussion
23:49:55  <Bjarni> not more than everybody else
23:50:08  <Bjarni> and welcome to a complete waste of time :P
23:50:47  <pv2b> Roujin: that's ok, i don't use the scenario editor. would be nice if it were there too.
23:50:54  <pv2b> i'll have to try it in a while :-)
23:52:04  <GT> "welcome to a complete waste of time"
23:52:12  <GT> Sound promising...
23:54:33  *** Tlustoch [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
23:55:29  <Roujin> wasn't there once a film or something called complete waste of time?
23:55:58  <Roujin> ah no it was a game
23:56:06  <dih> hehe - ironic :-P
23:56:36  <Roujin> Monty Python's Complete Waste of Time
23:57:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> "This schedule takes 8700 ticks to complete"
23:57:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> "This vehicle is 60784 ticks late"
23:58:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> someone should really introduce a modulo there...
23:58:13  <Roujin> took a shortcut?
23:58:26  <Bjarni> ohh... btw did I tell you about the guy flaming linux during our robot presentation in mid December?
23:58:39  <Bjarni> (this is a good story :D )
23:58:49  <dih> shoot
23:58:52  <Roujin> anything with robots in it is a good story...
23:59:16  <Bjarni> well... we use linux in the lab
23:59:21  <Bjarni> most of us anyway
23:59:28  <Bjarni> the computers are dual boot
23:59:40  <Bjarni> one guy insisted that it was best to boot in windows
23:59:55  <Bjarni> and flamed linux loudly for doing stupid stff
23:59:58  <Bjarni> *stuff

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