Log for #openttd on 15th February 2008:
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00:07:35  <dragonhorseboy> fjb how come if I may ask?
00:08:11  <fjb> Slow trains to one track, fast trains to the other.
00:08:40  <fjb> Or passenger trains to passenger platforms and freight trains to the freight platforms.
00:10:20  <dragonhorseboy> why bother mixing them in first place anyhow?
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00:11:11  <Axamentia> i use waypoints to split, traffic
00:11:22  <Axamentia> i also use waypoint to assign platforms
00:11:48  <Axamentia> Like at some stations where i have an express or through platform, and local or terminating platfroms
00:12:03  <dragonhorseboy> meh
00:12:04  <fjb> Building railways is expensive, so use them with as amny trains as possible.
00:12:52  <dragonhorseboy> I just somewhat follow a KISS thing and have all platforms either end or through - no mixing ... and freights stay on their own lines unless they're at same top speed to mingle (sometimes even with a mixed train if the factory is right next to city)
00:13:10  <dragonhorseboy> ^_^
00:14:23  <fjb> dragonhorseboy: Are you playing on flat land or in the montains?
00:14:29  <fjb> mountains
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00:16:17  <dragonhorseboy> fjb.... hilly with some waters
00:16:32  <dragonhorseboy> thats what I always use
00:16:45  <Axamentia> do you play big maps dragon?
00:17:40  <dragonhorseboy> 512x512 often (thats ttdp's fixed size too) and at times 2048x256 when I can get to the other computer for re openttd
00:19:55  <glx> 512x512 is openttd only
00:20:24  <Axamentia> ahh i usually play big maps but with openttd, but im a fan of making metro, local and express lines and have mixed traffic at stations
00:21:22  <fjb> Mixed local and express passenger traffic is the only way to go with the passenger destinations patch.
00:21:24  <dragonhorseboy> glx..huh...what was ttdp's size again?
00:21:25  <dragonhorseboy> <forgot now
00:21:29  <glx> 256
00:21:34  <dragonhorseboy> oh duh heh
00:22:00  <Axamentia> fjb ive got to get round installing the Pax patch
00:22:37  <Axamentia> I think gonzola did a patch group that intrested me Pax and PBS to off the features i really want
00:22:38  <fjb> it is fun to play with it. The last version is quite stable.
00:22:46  <dragonhorseboy> either way I don't like to destory nature too much (well trees ASIDE!) so explains why I have frequent single routes with the bout of directional ones there and there at times (but its rare that the two run parallel to each others except by coastline or on sections of flat land)
00:23:06  <fjb> I did my own Pax + YAPP patch.
00:23:20  <dragonhorseboy> so sometimes yeah one north-heading train could be far away from the south-heading train even although both have same platform ends in their orders
00:24:10  <Axamentia> gotta look that up and install it
00:24:27  <dragonhorseboy> or...there's also the case where one line was thrown on cheap on short $ (hugging around mountain too basically) then as traffic finally can get enough to want a second line... the second line is a dark tunnel straight underneath the very mountain in much shorter length
00:24:32  <fjb> With YAPP bidirectinal single track lines become usefull.
00:24:45  <Sacro> fjb: indeed they doe
00:24:57  <dragonhorseboy> so eg the loaded train just blasts into tunnel fast and straight but the empties have to claw it hard up and around the peak back
00:24:59  <Axamentia> fjb is there a built version? or am i going to have to compile myself?
00:25:12  <Sacro> Axamentia: check the topic
00:25:15  <dragonhorseboy> if anyone know what I'm saying anyhow
00:25:22  <Axamentia> will do sacro
00:25:55  <Sacro> you won't do sacro ><
00:26:03  <Axamentia> lol
00:26:03  <fjb> I compiled it myself. Don't know if there is a precompiled version.
00:26:21  <fjb> dragonhorseboy: Yes.
00:26:37  <dragonhorseboy> ty fjb
00:27:20  <dragonhorseboy> fjb...tunnels always cost quite $ so sometimes the route stays like that for several years before I finally build the second tunnel and then just leave the old original rails to rust (no..seriously heh)
00:27:48  <dragonhorseboy> usually de-signal it by then tho (aside to one single signal near either end as to not trip false red's)
00:28:37  <dragonhorseboy> hm now that I think about it...I think one time one of my coal train was almost a headache from the start (and it was the first route too no less) hehe....
00:29:09  <fjb> I'm building bidirectional single track or double track lines. Single track first, double track when there are more trains on that line.
00:32:01  <Axamentia> You most of the time i tend to double track on lines construction, to save the pain of double tracking after
00:33:18  <dragonhorseboy> many slopes...several tight snaking curves .. two deep bridges ... many foundations ... and it (oh boy) sure took three BR75 to battle 260 tonnes of coal over the freaking thing
00:33:31  <fjb> Double tracking isn't that much pain when you are thinking about it when you lay the single track. But why building a single track when you know that you will nedd e second track beforehand.
00:33:48  <dragonhorseboy> eventually the $ from first profit let me ease one critical curved slope a bit but otherwise still a battle
00:34:19  <fjb> dragonhorseboy: Maybe you should electrify that line.
00:34:53  <dragonhorseboy> eventually I was able to get it a bit more straightened out enough to decrease the train to 215 tonnes but only two BR75 needed (third one was stored in depot in case) ....
00:35:09  <dragonhorseboy> fjb...would had gone over the $$ I had
00:35:48  <dragonhorseboy> three BR75 costed half of what two E62 would had (neverminding the rails themself)
00:36:42  <guru3>
00:36:44  <guru3> BUILDINGS :D
00:36:55  <dragonhorseboy> but anyway...the third BR75 eventually got joined by a new one as I had managed to stuff a second line through and was finally happy with two 215 tonnes from a busy coal mine supply :)
00:38:13  <dragonhorseboy> eventually I was able to fix some of the route into being less difficult but still kept the trains as they were (but if the firemens were for real they'll had been glad..lot less backbreak shovelling on angled cab floors!)
00:38:18  <fjb> You could use an E52 instead of 2 BR75.
00:38:35  <dragonhorseboy> would had taken two E62 to be able to haul the same
00:38:37  <fjb> guru3: nice
00:39:00  <guru3> once again proving i have too much free time
00:39:01  <dragonhorseboy> and then yet the E62 are only 59km/h
00:40:03  <fjb> BR75 is good until the E52 comes out two years later.
00:41:09  <fjb> Nothing beats electric locomotives for heavy trains in the mountains.
00:42:05  <dragonhorseboy> heh well when I was finally able to get out of the deep interests (4% on a huge loan) .. guess where I went?
00:44:01  <fjb> Electrified?
00:45:44  <dragonhorseboy> two single BR75 trains of grain&livestock mixed trains (single platform at farm) and one lone E62 for a small farm not far from factory anyhow (cheaper than rv still) .. and the goods train was...well...don't get a heart attack...
00:46:15  *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
00:49:59  <dragonhorseboy> one BR75 with probably eight-ten 80km/h goods van on it .. to a nearby city on almost flat route
00:51:13  <fjb> BR 75 is ok for short trains like that.
00:51:34  <fjb> At least on a flat route.
00:51:44  <dragonhorseboy> heh well having three BR75 was the only one single time I've ever done it .. out of "damn so little $ left already!" complication
00:53:03  <dragonhorseboy> I eventually had the $ to fix up the original route a bit more and eventually retired six BR75's into one depot (near mine) to two BR144 as they seem reliable enough
00:53:06  <fjb> Try 20 or more hoppers full of coal in the mountains...
00:53:29  <dragonhorseboy> fjb... 260 tonnes *was* a lot of 15 tonnes low side wagons
00:53:35  <fjb> BR 144 is very reliable.
00:53:57  <dragonhorseboy> I still reused these old cars with the BR144 because that had my $ almost flatlined again :">
00:56:49  <dragonhorseboy> eventually got around to rebuilding the train with smaller total capacity of gondola's and moved three BR75s in one run to the powerplant to temporately cross them over onto a new route for a 96 tonnes coal mine up another peak
00:56:58  <dragonhorseboy> sold the other three off as wasn't going to need them anymore
00:57:43  *** Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le
00:59:46  <dragonhorseboy> fjb...and which of..after that coal battle and the small 2-farms business...I expanded into passengers mountain-style again (good grief, bloody map!) ...
01:01:09  <fjb> Passengers are good for making lots of money.
01:01:16  <dragonhorseboy> two BR 05's and they almost had it easy running 160km/h most of the times... except for really getting slapped by a 5-tiles slope right after a sharp curve (then a gentle right curve then down 2 tiles before being near city)
01:03:23  <dragonhorseboy> nothing worser than wishing you could add helpers just on this one stretch..maybe either BR144 or if money permitted then BR194
01:03:49  <dragonhorseboy> I'm sure these could had pushed the 05 up that one stretch easily....till I had the $ to make a long skirt after filling in some water
01:03:52  <fjb> BR05 is not the best in the mountains. And it is only short living.
01:04:15  <dragonhorseboy> fjb....yeah well I had a lot of almost-flat running for it was just this *one* stubborn section that was too expensive to try bypass yet
01:05:14  <fjb> You should really try the E16.
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01:07:03  <dragonhorseboy> eventually I had to add a third train for sake of station load .. and finally '57 I decided to just bite it a bit hard and I rebuilt a new line to bypass the difficult-located city for another one and this time the BR05 didn't have to sag down hard anymore
01:07:24  <dragonhorseboy> (yes I did abandon the entire station and unused rails then planted some trees in place)
01:08:53  <fjb> Hm, 1957 and you are still buying an old BR05?
01:09:23  <dragonhorseboy> no...just changed the route to end at a different second city
01:09:36  <dragonhorseboy> the third 05 was several years earlier
01:09:51  <dragonhorseboy> (and I was able to add two more coaches to each trains with the much easier line finally heh)
01:10:00  <fjb> Ah, ok, E10 comes out between 1956 an 1958.
01:10:25  <fjb> And it beats the BR05 in any way.
01:10:29  <dragonhorseboy> eventually made a different line (lot of tight snaking but little grade thankgod) that was served by VT-11's with four coaches each
01:11:00  <dragonhorseboy> they kept 140km/h almost all the times except in one weird hard curve (blame a transmitter tower for one piece of it) where it dropped speed then suddenly hit one upslope altogether
01:11:07  <fjb> VT-11 are nice when it is not too hilly.
01:11:13  <dragonhorseboy> true that
01:11:41  <fjb> But the E10 has a top speed of 160km/h.
01:11:56  <fjb> And it has much more power and TE.
01:13:14  <dragonhorseboy> the leftover BR75's by late 60's had finally been decided all total scrapped ... by BR144 thanks to dropping reliability and having the incomes to advance electrification for that reason
01:13:30  <dragonhorseboy> E10?
01:14:01  <dragonhorseboy> only see a ET11 otherwise nothing close to that in list
01:14:42  <fjb> E10 = BR110
01:15:04  <fjb> E = Elektro
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01:15:46  <fjb> E got replaced by 1 when the DB got computers that could only handle numbers.
01:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> the replacement E -> 1, V -> 2 was done in the late '60s
01:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i think ET -> 4, VT -> 6
01:17:21  <dragonhorseboy> oh...was leaving it alone due to reliability and the huge pricetag for quite a long time
01:17:36  <fjb> E10 = BR110, E44 = BR144, E94 = BR194, V100 = BR212, V200 = BR 220.
01:17:42  <dragonhorseboy> but I did eventually kill the BR05 at some point finally (they held reliability too well for too long..!)
01:18:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> and the E10 has 150km/h
01:18:21  <fjb> You can use the BR110 up to the year 2000.
01:19:00  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause3: You are right, 150, not 160 as I wrote.
01:19:00  <dragonhorseboy> was four BR110 (cities had grown by then) with slight longer trains .. but I kept the BR05s in the depot for no real reason
01:19:27  <fjb> BR05 are getting useless and unreliable soon.
01:19:59  <dragonhorseboy> fjb..well..they were still holding 80+% reliability when I finally quietly told them to unload their train at one city then head to depot
01:20:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> the BR 05 is only nice when the track is completely free, it doesn't accelerate very fast
01:20:35  <dragonhorseboy> 40+ years of service that is
01:21:07  <fjb> When the BR103 comes out you should really electrify your mainlines.
01:22:10  <dragonhorseboy> I did eventually join all three together and send them to the other depot and reworked them on a new seperate line serving this city [was getting too fat for the four BR110 to empty out quickly enough] to another new town
01:24:39  <dragonhorseboy> I did finally pull them out of service for complete good (as they were going to like 30-40% average reliability, ouch) several years later and parked all three into a little section of tracks at a different small town (couldn't just sell them off)
01:25:47  <dragonhorseboy> renamed front one as "proudly did harsh service.." second one as "..for over 60 years.." and the last one as "..and finally laid to rest"
01:26:06  <dragonhorseboy> some special 'park' that town got to keep for its entire life till I finally had enough with the map :p
01:27:16  <dragonhorseboy> and yes I did eventually make an actual station (on other side of town from this 'park' tho) served by two ET-11 flipping back and forth
01:27:53  <dragonhorseboy> heh imagine if the passengers were riding the ET-11 to this town all just to walk down the street to see the parked BR05's :p
01:30:35  <dragonhorseboy> otherwise re all trains (of any type) I had eventually just done with a mix of BR110 and BR120's ... save these mix of ET-11 and VT-11 for smaller short express services
01:32:11  <dragonhorseboy> and it kinda stayed that way for a long time till I poked with three long routes (originally multiply BR120's) being tested by transrapid 09's (service set to a tight 90 days, only 52-57% reliability meh)
01:33:10  <dragonhorseboy> eventually any passenger BR's left over got replaced by ICE1
01:33:47  <dragonhorseboy> and the rest..I slowly docked them to the BR182 as I could afford the total pricetag it finally came to
01:34:12  <dragonhorseboy> eventually just several years of minor route corrections and consist balancing till 2050 and I stopped there
01:34:26  <dragonhorseboy> hope you're still there fjb hehe
01:34:36  <fjb> In the end only BR182, ICE 3 and the Blue Tiger are left.
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01:35:33  <dragonhorseboy> well I had tried ICE3 but it seem to slow down a bit more rapidly so thats why I decided to just utilize the ICE1's instead as they could hold somewhat better rough average speed throughly
01:35:54  <fjb> And there will not be more modern locomotives in DBsetXL 0.9.
01:36:18  <fjb> But the ICE 3 becomes unreliable soon.
01:36:25  <fjb> The ICE 1 I mean.
01:36:26  <dragonhorseboy> talk about the ICE1 having twice traction of ICE3 (and hp? well...lets not bother arguing :p)
01:36:52  <fjb> ICE 1 gets too unreliable after 2020.
01:37:23  <dragonhorseboy> actually the ICE1 still could hold 70+% reliability into the 2050's and I wasn't sending them on any long routes so they could service somewhat frequently anyhow
01:38:26  <fjb> Ok, you are using the reliabiloty at the easy level...
01:39:21  <dragonhorseboy> the transrapid 09's? lets just say I eventually folded and just split the remaining three long routes to several shorter ones for the BR182 to handle themself
01:39:38  <dragonhorseboy> they just kept blowing out too often (can you say black smoke?) between station halts X_X
01:39:52  <dragonhorseboy> wasn't a bad experinment but a bit shortlived should we say
01:40:21  <Phantasm> It is nonsense that reliability of old technology goes down. Sure maintenance costs might go up but there is no reason whatsoever for the technology to be any less reliable than it used to be.
01:40:51  <dragonhorseboy> phantasm...heh well some engines get worn out quickly than others too .. there's the reliability decay thing ;)
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01:41:21  <fjb> And try to get replacement parts...
01:41:29  <dragonhorseboy> fjb....heh
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01:41:38  <dragonhorseboy> I still couldn't believe what I did to these BR05's but go figure
01:41:55  <dragonhorseboy> this was the only one time I got a map that was cursed with weird tall mountains all over it
01:42:14  <dragonhorseboy> most maps I got were somewhat easy with just one or two big peaks but just rolling valleys everywhere else otherwise
01:42:19  <Phantasm> dragonhorseboy: Of course the reliability of old engine goes worse, but a new engine of old technology should not have low reliability.
01:42:32  <dragonhorseboy> true on that
01:43:25  <dragonhorseboy> I never could figure out how to use these V100's at all they always seem quite expensive early on then aren't much of use later on with the BR1xx classes well out
01:43:33  <dragonhorseboy> but hm what do I really know
01:44:04  <fjb> V100 are nice for short lines with low traffic.
01:44:08  <Phantasm> fjb: That is why the maintenance costs might go higher later on.
01:44:10  <fjb> They are cheap to run.
01:45:11  <fjb> Phantasm: You just don't get any spare parts. You could try to hire peole to build single spare parts, but nobody does that. Only a museum might do that.
01:46:34  <Phantasm> fjb: That is why the maintenance goes up. But buying a train when it is still being sold, you can expect to be able to run it reliably for its life.
01:46:48  <dragonhorseboy> hm well I sometimes wondered about these VT-11.5's in real life
01:47:01  <dragonhorseboy> the way they were for express but then got knocked down into local service
01:47:56  <dragonhorseboy> but hm thats the way a lot of late era express steam ended up as in usa ... one year it was a long string of fresh heavyweights then next year its suddenly an easy old four branchline coaches on a quiet mainline
01:48:01  * fjb has senn them in local service.
01:48:22  <Phantasm> And there could also be some slider for maintenance cost versus reliability.
01:48:53  <Phantasm> So, putting more money into maintenance would make the train be more reliable (for longer time).
01:49:51  <Phantasm> On some routes, the break downs that occur with normal breakdowns can cause a lot of slowdown.
01:49:54  <dragonhorseboy> know..
01:50:48  <dragonhorseboy> that was what happened with one particular excursions-used steam ran several years before eventually it was sidelined for good due to being too worn out in many places .. eventually a fundraising battle finally got it fully repaired for good and back into service to today so far .. but who knows much about its life yet
01:53:10  <Phantasm> It would also be good if setting 5% service interval was possible from the patch configuration.
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02:00:48  <dragonhorseboy> either way this (I think..need to find box to check anyhow) is what I own here :p
02:02:08  <dragonhorseboy> there's a small 3-axle diesel shunter in darker green with a yellow strip thats chipped off in several places but its one of these old red&blue box for it - and I don't recall the # right now
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02:02:44  <fjb> Ah, the famour prusiian P8, later BR38.
02:04:00  <fjb> Green with yellow could be dutch or a private railway.
02:04:02  <dragonhorseboy> heh I kinda liked the prussian green paintjob but the locomotives in this manner are rather priced a bit steep so meh
02:04:31  <dragonhorseboy> same likewise for any BR 05 in red :p (I might be willing to trade the BR38 on it anyhow)
02:04:33  <fjb> You could try to find older models at ebay.
02:04:42  <dragonhorseboy> thats where I got these two engines ^_^
02:04:57  <dragonhorseboy> but now well still waiting for another seller to decide to list something quite nice but yet cheap
02:05:51  <dragonhorseboy> have a mixed list of several different wagons.. eg DR express dining car, two old tin 2-axle branchline coaches, random 2-axle freights, etc
02:05:52  <fjb> I was lucky to get an BR216 last year. It is in a very good condition and was cheap. Somehow nobody wated it.
02:07:13  <fjb> You know ?
02:09:22  <dragonhorseboy> here's one anyhow (but not sure about seller having all-caps shorty description tho)
02:09:27  <dragonhorseboy> that kind of price is nice :p
02:10:29  <dragonhorseboy> yeah I've used the english expanded search at times but it rarely lists old items (like these that comes in the red&blue boxes instead of the current white ones)
02:10:40  <dragonhorseboy> so its not quite always useful to me ^_^
02:12:54  <fjb> Be carefull if you can see all sides of the model. Some boxes have a plastic inlay which tends to wear out the color of the models.
02:13:35  <fjb> The box of that electric shunter is also a modern white one.
02:13:54  <fjb> You would have more luck on
02:14:44  <dragonhorseboy> this is the kind of 'yet cheap' I'm really talking about now hehe
02:15:40  <dragonhorseboy> they just don't come around that much (re sub-0 for large engines)
02:16:14  <fjb> That BR01 is an really old model.
02:16:53  <fjb> You should really start to learn german if you are into MÀrklin models.
02:17:46  <fjb> The BR 01 is from the 70s.
02:18:15  <dragonhorseboy> this is kinda a bit like what mine looks like (just not same colour and some exterior details)
02:23:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have one of those:
02:24:03  * fjb too.
02:24:33  <fjb> Oh, I meant the V60.
02:24:38  <dragonhorseboy> but either way I packed away the small set I had because I just can't keep reusing that old lionel ac transformer from father all the times but I yet have to find a 120v-origin (not the 240v, duh heh) marklin controller yet
02:25:08  <dragonhorseboy> so hmm yeah some more cars (maybe a more uniform passenger train too heh) and a good transformer then I'm probably set
02:25:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> but mine has a different number plate...
02:25:23  <fjb> MÀrlin should have 120V transformers.
02:25:29  <dragonhorseboy> hm nice
02:25:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> mine has 118 177-1
02:25:42  <dragonhorseboy> fjb...true..its just they're not easier to find
02:25:57  <dragonhorseboy> there's one funny thing if you would tho...
02:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> my models are quite old
02:26:15  <fjb> They are selling their models in the US, so there must be 120V transformers.
02:26:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> except an ICE 1 i have only pre "Change" models
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02:27:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> <- one of these i have also
02:28:15  <dragonhorseboy> hm sorry..maybe not funny but...there's one older (I've had it for some time as shelf display usually but tried it with the BR38 once) DR wagon that I've never been able to track down online well at all
02:28:53  <dragonhorseboy> its one of these saschenwagen (how was that box spelled again?) doubledeck 2-car set in blue/cream paintjob with light gray roof
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02:29:11  <dragonhorseboy> has a cheap folding paper for the diagrams in middle tho (beats me why but meh you can't see it much at all so)
02:30:02  <dragonhorseboy> I only could find conventional coaches in same paintjob but otherwise I never could find anything online that matched what I have oddly but I'm sure this is a real model as it even has some technical details (weight too) in small letterings on the side
02:30:14  <Eddi|zuHause2>!_W0QQitemZ280200091725QQcmdZViewItem <- i have also one of those, but the pantograph is missing
02:30:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's probably the cutest engine i have ;)
02:31:05  <dragonhorseboy> ah it was Sachsenmodelle I was thinking of duh....but anyway...
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02:32:35  <dragonhorseboy> about same but not the roof colour I think
02:33:04  <dragonhorseboy> its only listed as "Set Of 2 Lend-Out Coaches" which does not even help my search to track down elusive info of these 2-car doubledecker I got
02:33:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have never seen blue DR wagons...
02:34:48  <dragonhorseboy> might be my memory re another car I had too..let me see if I can still find some older photos I took of the entire collection I had once...
02:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> wagons have either been green (local), cream/green (long distance) or cream/orange ("StÀdteexpress")
02:36:48  <dragonhorseboy> *pokes more folders*
02:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> <- i also have two of these
02:38:46  <dragonhorseboy> nice :p
02:39:02  <dragonhorseboy> ah hm found one of my old forum post instead...
02:40:21  <dragonhorseboy> the diesel is actually #3149 which is not even in maerklin's database as it is now like I was saying
02:40:44  <dragonhorseboy> here's one photo of someone else's tho (mine looks lot more dull yellow or it must be the camera flash there)
02:41:01  <dragonhorseboy> mine even can't complete the 'Z' on one side due to too much chipping there already
02:41:43  <dragonhorseboy> funny how the yellow is chipped in several places but none on the green otherwise - a bit suspicious but what do I really know
02:44:31  <dragonhorseboy> anyway sorry about all the talking ^_^
02:45:25  <fjb> dragonhorseboy: That is the belgium version of the V60.
02:47:45  <dragonhorseboy> only if they weren't somewhat collectible I'll have had liked one of these NYC or Rio Grande A-A diesel set :p
02:47:50  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: S-Bahn Leipzig had blue / cream color:
02:47:55  <dragonhorseboy> usa diesels on ac tracks ^_^
02:48:14  <fjb> :-)
02:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: yes, S-Bahn was done in city-colours, but only for a very short time... i have never seen those
02:50:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> at "my time", S-Bahn used these
02:50:17  <dragonhorseboy>'s a crazy photo: thats an expensive collection especially an ac Big Boy too 0_o
02:50:41  <dragonhorseboy> but the gray two diesels are the NYC A-A unit sets I'll love to have
02:50:42  <dragonhorseboy> :p
02:51:12  <fjb> That is looking expensive.
02:51:45  <fjb> But MÀrklin isn't the best choice for US locomotives.
02:52:15  <dragonhorseboy> well but to run them on the same layout? ^_^
02:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> typical east german long distance trains looked like this
02:54:36  * fjb loves Piko models, especially the freight wagons.
02:55:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a few different freight wagons
02:55:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> all old...
02:56:42  <dragonhorseboy> hrm still wondering where these old photos were
03:01:39  <dragonhorseboy> oh well can't find them but I'm going to bed :/
03:01:40  <dragonhorseboy> bye
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03:09:47  * fjb should also go to bed.
03:11:33  <fjb> Good night.
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06:50:58  <Forked> Gonozal_VIII: compiled :)
06:51:10  <Gonozal_VIII> yay :-)
06:52:00  <Gonozal_VIII> first post updated
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08:42:11  <Morloth> Morning :)
08:42:19  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
08:46:02  <Morloth> Finally found the right IRC channel :)
08:46:23  <Morloth> there is one too at, but there are only like 4 people :P
08:46:58  <Gonozal_VIII> it says oftc on the website ;-)
08:47:02  <Forked> meep meep
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08:51:14  <globester> woopwoop
08:51:35  <DJ-Nekkid> nts nts
08:53:41  <Gonozal_VIII> ntfs ntfs
08:54:30  <globester> you're fat :(
08:54:52  <Gonozal_VIII> i'm not!!!!11111132
08:56:34  <globester> yes you are!!01100110 01100001 01110100 01101101 01100001 01101110 00001101 00001010
08:57:51  <Morloth> definitely the correct channel ;)
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08:58:53  <Gonozal_VIII> hi to the peter
08:59:39  <peter1138> Yes, for I am back.
08:59:56  <peter1138> With some kind of vengeance!
09:00:10  <Gonozal_VIII> :O
09:00:19  <peter1138> Oh, alright, maybe not...
09:00:36  <Morloth> Btw, does any one know how to split code into several files using squirrel? I've read something about a require() method, but I don't know how to make this work
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09:01:34  <Gonozal_VIII> you're making a new ai?
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09:01:45  <Morloth> Yeah
09:02:20  <Gonozal_VIII> that uses trains?
09:02:57  <Morloth> No, not yet :). I'm competing in a programming contest where I'm only allowed to build roads
09:04:49  <Gonozal_VIII> i've read about that contest... can't help you with your problem, i don't have the slightest idea about squirrel
09:05:30  <Morloth> But I'd like to include trains once I've finished road vehicles, but it's 100 times harder :)
09:05:47  <Gonozal_VIII> i know^^
09:06:04  <Gonozal_VIII> original ai sucks terribly at that part
09:07:42  <Morloth> It's a hard problem to solve :)
09:07:57  <globester>
09:07:58  <globester> :P
09:09:32  <Morloth> I couldn't find a lot of AI's on the forms, are there any notable AI's out there besides of Wright's AI ?
09:11:45  <Gonozal_VIII> ethan as a father O_o
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09:23:07  <peter1138> "To draw 32bpp graphics for OpenTTD you need to know how to model in 3D"
09:23:09  <peter1138> *sigh*
09:23:17  <peter1138> Wrong, wrong, and wrong...
09:24:13  <Gonozal_VIII> well.. i wouldn't start drawing 32bpp stuff pixel by pixel.. or 8bpp with a 3d app...
09:24:57  <peter1138> You wouldn't, but there is no rule that says it needs to be done with a 3D modeller...
09:26:54  <peter1138> Conversely, Pikka's av8 was done with a 3D modeller...
09:27:17  <Gonozal_VIII> well.. then change "you need" to "it helps" ;-)
09:27:33  <peter1138> No, I like to have a good moan now and then ;)
09:28:15  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think any automatic generated 8bpp stuff can look really good without manually fixing some pixels...
09:29:38  <Gonozal_VIII> well ok... it can.. but that's luck then
09:37:43  <Forked> note to self: water should not try to enter lungs when you drink
09:37:57  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
09:44:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Gonozal_VIII> that uses trains? <- afaik the API does not allow trains
09:44:33  <Gonozal_VIII> bad api
09:44:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, improve it ;)
09:52:30  <Morloth> Well, you can work around the NoAI API, it's not mandatory to use it ;)
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10:52:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12142 /trunk/src/newgrf_cargo.cpp: -Fix [FS#1766]: Callback 0x3D always gets a cargobit in var 0x18, independent of grf version.
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11:03:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12143 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine.h oldloader.cpp): -Fix (r8038): Engine::preview_player does not contain a Player ID. Rename this to preview_player_rank and change back to a uint8 to avoid confusion.
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11:28:51  <foe> Am I mute?
11:29:04  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
11:29:18  <foe> Goddamn
11:29:50  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
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12:38:07  <guru3>
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12:40:11  <Gonozal_VIII> can't be more than 1 tile height difference between two tiles
12:42:33  <peter1138> There can... if you like artefacts :D
12:43:02  <Gonozal_VIII> i know there can be from map array side... but there are no sprites for that
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12:47:29  <Gonozal_VIII> oh, that's generated live?
12:50:26  <Noldo> what is?
12:51:50  <Gonozal_VIII> the link guru3 posted
12:52:06  <Gonozal_VIII> reloaded it and got a diferent landscape
12:53:24  <Noldo> so it seems
12:55:13  <Gekz> I've had enough of homework
12:55:21  <Gekz> and I'm only in my third week of year 11 lol
12:55:29  <Gekz> this is not a good attitude.
13:00:30  <guru3> yes it's generated live
13:01:13  <Gonozal_VIII> guru, you can't just drop a link like that here and don't write anything about it^^
13:01:23  <guru3> ok
13:01:50  <guru3> <--- check out the script i wrote to generate random landscapes complete with mini-towns
13:01:57  <guru3> (trees and water in planning stages!)
13:02:27  <Gonozal_VIII> is that for openttd or some other game?
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13:02:34  <dragonhorseboy> hey
13:02:37  <guru3> it's for fun really
13:02:45  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
13:02:48  <guru3> i haven't thought of any other application for it yet
13:03:11  <guru3> i just can't really see wanting to play openttd with such a rough landscape
13:03:23  * guru3 's smoothing algorithm doesn't work very well
13:03:51  <Gonozal_VIII> could you scale everything up?
13:03:56  <guru3> yes
13:04:04  <guru3> it could be really massive if so desired
13:04:09  <guru3> (line thickness doesn't scale though)
13:04:28  <guru3> refresh
13:04:44  <dragonhorseboy> rough landscape?
13:05:01  <guru3> <--- check out the script i wrote to generate random landscapes complete with mini-towns (trees and water in planning stages!)
13:05:12  <peter1138> hh
13:05:22  <peter1138> It's so slow ;(
13:05:29  <Gonozal_VIII> ah now i know what it reminds me of
13:05:30  <guru3> cause it's a 3900x2340 image
13:05:38  <guru3> even as a gif that's a MB or two
13:05:39  <Gonozal_VIII> that's like the lots in sims
13:05:45  <guru3> and it's only a 40/50KB/s upload
13:06:06  <guru3> actually generation of a map this size is only a few seconds
13:06:15  <peter1138> Sloped roads!
13:06:24  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe yes
13:06:34  <guru3> it's more like massive cheating on how roads are drawn
13:07:02  <Gonozal_VIII> grey tile with a yellow line along the middle...
13:07:10  <guru3> yeah
13:07:21  <guru3> if you look carefully that doesn't quite work graphically
13:08:03  <guru3> which goes with all the problems im having trying to figure out water
13:08:06  <Gonozal_VIII> sim city... sims... they have maps exactly like that
13:08:18  <guru3> yup
13:08:27  <guru3> if i made the tiles really massive and textured them
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13:08:31  <guru3> it'd be exactly like openttd
13:09:09  <guru3> should i take some of the new buildings and slap them on?
13:09:09  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm textures instead of terrain sprites
13:09:10  <guru3> xD
13:09:23  <Gonozal_VIII> could be worth a try^^
13:09:45  <guru3> do let me point out
13:09:52  <guru3> that this would be a terrible rendering engine to use for a game
13:10:19  <Gonozal_VIII> more like a proof of concept
13:10:20  <guru3> watching step by step animation of the generation is pretty cool though
13:10:44  <guru3> massive files though
13:11:06  <guru3> <--- animation of a few versions back
13:12:17  <Tefad> ack, my firefox is .. dying
13:12:19  <Tefad> ok back.
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13:14:04  <Gonozal_VIII> do you notice the grid?
13:14:07  <remaxim> hi Belugas
13:14:12  <Gonozal_VIII> somehow not really random
13:14:51  <guru3> in the animation or already generated maps?
13:14:52  <Gonozal_VIII> generates a grid of ridges
13:14:57  <Gonozal_VIII> both
13:15:07  <guru3> well yeah
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13:15:15  <guru3> there's also random cliffs
13:15:41  <guru3> as "rand" as it gets is rand()
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13:16:22  <guru3> part of that could also be the only partial smoothing of the map that i do
13:16:39  <guru3> i like a combination of rolling hills and rough terrain
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13:18:16  <Gonozal_VIII> ridges seem ok... but that they run along both axis, crossing each other doesn't seem right
13:18:49  <guru3> if the ridges were probably randomly distributed
13:18:57  <guru3> they could be between you and things like the towns
13:19:04  <guru3> and would look very odd
13:19:10  <guru3> so i restricted them to one corner
13:19:30  <guru3> or really, i didn't write the code for the other corner
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13:28:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12144 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp:
13:28:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Adjust aircraft slowing algorithm so that very fast
13:28:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: aircraft slow down more rapidly than slower aircraft. This prevents them
13:28:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: from reaching the end of the runway at high speed, and also stops slow
13:28:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: aircraft from slowing down too much at the start of the runway.
13:29:48  <peter1138> essay :o
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13:30:35  <Noldo> was the negative acceleration constant earlier?
13:30:50  <peter1138> No
13:31:03  <peter1138> it was current speed / 48
13:31:11  <peter1138> well
13:31:16  <Noldo> ok
13:31:33  <peter1138> what happened was the max speed is limited to current speed - (current speed / 48)
13:32:13  <peter1138> it worked but not for very fast planes, because the limit is calculated once per tick
13:32:27  <peter1138> and by then it's already moved n pixels...
13:32:53  <dragonhorseboy> peter...yeah true...too fast for typical ticks :p
13:32:57  <peter1138> so slower planes slowed down more rapidly because they travelled less distance and had more time to slow down
13:33:06  <peter1138> err, that explains it badly, but i know what i mean ;)
13:33:10  <Noldo> yes
13:33:12  <dragonhorseboy> seriously I always wondered why the default openttd planespeed was too fast :p
13:33:17  <SmatZ> peter1138: nice change
13:33:18  <Noldo> discrete simulation is a bitch
13:33:24  <peter1138> dragonhorseboy, i've not adjusted the plane speed, but that is coming...
13:33:33  <dragonhorseboy> can't *even* see your own sonic jet for more than a blink of eye >_<
13:33:37  <Gonozal_VIII> huh?
13:33:51  <Gonozal_VIII> you'll change the planespeed to unrealistic again?
13:34:12  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, patch option of course
13:34:25  <Gonozal_VIII> well... it's unrealistic anyways but i think it's a good thing that it's now in scale with the other vehicles
13:34:29  <peter1138> SmatZ, notice there is no mention of physics or realistic in there ;)
13:34:43  <dragonhorseboy> gonozal...if that means I can actually be able to click on the plane, yes -_-
13:34:56  <keyweed> we *can* change the laws of physics!
13:34:56  <Gonozal_VIII> just open the vehicle list...
13:35:01  <dragonhorseboy> otherwise as its been I often have to hope to catch it inside the airport (where its only crawling) or try find where it is in the vehicle list
13:35:16  <dragonhorseboy> gonozal..doesn't work with the way numberings disappear when you use custom name somehow
13:35:32  <peter1138> now, do i make this plane_speed option a divisor, so that 1 is fastest, or a multiplier, so that it works like ttdpatch...
13:35:38  <peter1138> the former is simpler
13:35:43  <Gonozal_VIII> numberings disappear?
13:35:45  <peter1138> and who cares about confusing ttdpatch players ;)
13:35:52  <dragonhorseboy> peter.... I'll say the multiplier for sure
13:36:17  <dragonhorseboy> gonozal...yeah when I rename a plane its suddenly not able to sort right in the list for some reason and so needs some hunting to find it (in the tiny print no less)
13:36:49  <Gonozal_VIII> why didn't you report that then?
13:37:33  <dragonhorseboy> did mention it a long time ago but seem that in several betas they're not bothering yet
13:37:41  <peter1138> dragonhorseboy,
13:37:55  <peter1138> if it's not on there, then it will be forgotten about.
13:38:11  <peter1138> (if it is on there, it may just get ignored, but at least you can complain ;))
13:38:46  <Gonozal_VIII> and i would say divisor
13:39:01  <Gonozal_VIII> no floaty point stuff...
13:39:32  <dragonhorseboy> but either way I've rather been using planes more toward remote freight services these days tho (thanks a lot xussrplaneset :p ) as trying to get different planes to migate into a busy airport is just stressful enough to want to just use rails+ships alone instead at times hehe
13:39:43  <dragonhorseboy> (for re cities that is)
13:40:10  <Gonozal_VIII> planes didn't get any balancing when their speed was fixed...
13:40:28  <Gonozal_VIII> income should be lowered
13:40:54  <peter1138> problem is income is only done on distance and time,
13:41:02  <peter1138> which doesn't happen in real life
13:43:28  <Gonozal_VIII> what else? adjustable ticket prices?
13:43:48  <Noldo> suply/demand based pricing
13:45:02  <dragonhorseboy> would that work? a town of 1600 accepts goods just like a city of 21000 would
13:45:27  <Gonozal_VIII> houses need stockpiling, i wrote that a lot
13:45:49  <dragonhorseboy> I'm not so sure about that
13:45:58  <Gonozal_VIII> stockpiling rocks
13:46:32  <dragonhorseboy> how am I supposed to connect this large city station to a small town without having too much passengers sitting (and so killing the rating) at the city one? ;)
13:46:37  <peter1138> actually i think cargo income can be adjusted by newgrf...
13:46:47  <peter1138> in a dynamic "let the newgrf do the calculation" way
13:47:10  <Noldo> interesting
13:47:25  <peter1138> mmm, yes it can
13:47:52  <peter1138> Hmm, but it doesn't actually say anything about the transportation method...
13:47:53  <Gonozal_VIII> connect the big one to multiple small ones or something like that
13:48:17  <peter1138> just distance, time and amount of cargo
13:48:20  <dragonhorseboy> gonozal...doesn't really work when you're used to having towns:low in difficulty settings
13:48:51  <Gonozal_VIII> big city should be happy with its only connection to a small town?
13:49:43  <dragonhorseboy> gonozal..if thats what it takes to keep the station low or empty on loads then yes ^_^  (sometimes the trains only earn well one direction then barely cover their own expense on way back...especially in tropical too)
13:53:26  <dragonhorseboy> anyway be back in a moment
13:54:48  <peter1138> Heeeee, really slow planes :o
13:54:57  <peter1138> I guess I've got used to fast aircraft.
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13:58:53  <dih> :-)
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14:02:55  <SpComb> :-(
14:03:08  <Gonozal_VIII> :-|
14:03:31  <glx> :/
14:03:32  <SpComb> =|:D-|->
14:03:33  <peter1138> Š¬|
14:03:56  <dih> at least now i know how everybody is doing :-P
14:06:06  <SpComb> 'tis nice weather, and excellent *potential* for a good day
14:06:20  <dih> hehe
14:06:34  <dih> the potential is not dependant on the weather though :-P
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14:07:50  <SpComb> well, the weather adds on to it
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14:08:10  <SpComb> but just about every potential good-day-aspect failed
14:08:21  <dih> LOL
14:08:28  <dih> poor Progman
14:08:59  <dih> or did you mean the weather spoiled it?
14:09:02  <keyweed> good day? someone invested 100 milion in SCO. this is not a good day.
14:09:28  <keyweed> unless you're a lawyer
14:09:48  <dih> or are on either side of that investment
14:10:39  <Progman> dih: what?
14:10:40  <keyweed> i don't think investing in SCO will make a profit. it will just make other peoples life miserable. i don't even think they want to make a profit, they just want to attack linux.
14:10:55  <dih> [15:08]  * Progman ( has joined #openttd
14:10:55  <dih> [15:08]  <SpComb> but just about every potential good-day-aspect failed
14:11:49  <SpComb> heh, that as well
14:12:02  <Forked> invested in sco? sounds like a sure way to lose it all
14:13:21  <SpComb> "This significant financial backing is positive news for SCO's customers, partners and resellers who continue to request upgrades and rely upon SCO's UNIX services to drive their business forward," he said.
14:13:38  <keyweed>
14:13:39  <Progman> dih: dont get it
14:13:43  <SpComb> "who continue to request [...] rely upon SCO's UNIX services to drive their business"
14:13:50  <SpComb> I meant, "who continue to [...] rely upon SCO's UNIX services to drive their business"
14:14:12  <dih> Progman: you joined the channel, and all of SpComb's outlooks for a good day vanish...
14:14:12  <keyweed> who continue to rely upon SCO to sue their businesses?
14:14:36  <SpComb> would you seriously want to invest 100M into a company that has *those kind of people* as customers?
14:14:49  *** Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale
14:15:50  <dragonhorseboy> back
14:17:52  <dih> dragonhorseboyback?
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14:18:25  <Gonozal_VIII> dragonhorseboywhowasawaybutisnowback
14:18:39  <dragonhorseboy> dih..I was afk :p
14:19:08  <dih> AuF Klo
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14:26:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> :p
14:26:41  <dragonhorseboy> so how're you eddi? ;)
14:26:54  <dih> he is afk :-D
14:27:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that's a good idea actually ;)
14:27:36  <dragonhorseboy> hehe
14:27:43  <dih> lol
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14:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> better ;)
14:29:47  <dih> thanks for the details
14:29:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's your fault ;)
14:30:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> i would never have mentioned anything ;)
14:32:38  <dih> perhaps you should register the nick Eddi|aufKlo2 too
14:32:47  <dragonhorseboy> ^_^
14:32:51  <dragonhorseboy> well what both of you doing now?
14:33:32  <dih> i am mainly chatting with TB
14:33:41  <dih> and having a bigger pbs game
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14:34:35  <dragonhorseboy> dih...pbs game?
14:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i am uploading,%2017.%20Okt%201981.png
14:34:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> (60%)
14:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> then i'm going to watch skins
14:35:28  <dih> a game with pbs
14:35:30  <dih> yapp?
14:35:52  <dragonhorseboy> ah hm that 0.6.3-3 or something else?
14:36:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> no PBS signals there... wasn't high priority
14:36:20  <yorick> dragonhorseboy: you mean yapp?
14:36:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> could make use of them, but the station works alright how it is
14:36:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> should be 100% now
14:37:09  <dih> 12062 with the yapp patch
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14:37:14  <dragonhorseboy> dih..oh ok
14:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have 12066
14:37:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> i win ;)
14:37:32  <dih> is there a new yapp version out?
14:37:50  <dragonhorseboy> <only has either 0.6.3-beta3 and the last ever MiniIn builds here
14:38:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> Tekky said michi_cc announced one for yesterday
14:38:08  <dragonhorseboy> and then yet I might be stopping using both soon since its a bit tiring trying to keep borrowing the windows pc
14:38:20  <Gonozal_VIII> but there wasn't one :-(
14:39:09  <Belugas> 0.6.3 beta3 ?? wow... i've really been asleep for a long time !
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14:40:20  <dragonhorseboy> belugas...what? :p hehe
14:40:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> how does everybody like the picture?
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14:41:20  <keyweed> looks good
14:41:35  <Gonozal_VIII> well... missed the whole 0.6.0 release... then branchification and update to 0.6.1 and 0.6.2...
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14:41:49  <keyweed> i had to reload it three times to get the bottom part form some odd reason but very sexy S curve
14:42:10  <Gonozal_VIII> yep, only upper half loaded
14:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeahm because i was not done uploading
14:42:32  <keyweed> ah. good reason.
14:43:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> s/m/,/
14:43:26  <peter1138> There is no 0.6.3 beta 3...
14:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> the keys are like next to each other
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14:43:44  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, that joke only works when they're not :o
14:44:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's why i brought it up ;)
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14:44:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's reverse irony ;)
14:44:42  <Gonozal_VIII> so normal statements are funny now because they are not wrong?
14:45:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, because they got taken so out of context that they are already back in the right context ;)
14:45:42  <dih> what is actually wrong with the nightly page?
14:46:12  <peter1138> dih, we added code to it... "if ($remote_user == "dih") exit()"
14:47:45  <dih> yeah right!
14:48:35  <keyweed> $remote_user ne 'dih' || die;
14:48:45  * keyweed ponders.
14:49:01  <murray> throw new dihException()
14:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's german, it's "die Bart" ;)
14:49:37  <keyweed> only if Bart is a girl
14:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's a simpsons quote
14:49:59  <keyweed> hm. i don't watch cartoons.
14:50:16  <keyweed> i only know one simpsons quote. 'doh'
14:51:01  <DJ-Nekkid> hmm, why isnt this code working? it dont give any warnings or errors in nforenum ...
14:51:01  <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0	 02 00 00 81 40 00 FF 01 AA 00 00 00 AB 00 //<-- if first entity, use AA, else use AB
14:51:01  <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0	 02 00 01 81 10 00 FF 01 18 80 01 01 FF 80 //<-- the 18 is VehID
14:51:01  <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0	 02 00 02 81 0C 00 FF 01 00 00 16 16 01 00 //<-- Articulation
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14:51:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> sure it shouldn't be "00 00 AA 00"?
14:52:03  <DJ-Nekkid> nope :)
14:52:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> if between '00' and '00', use 'AA 00'
14:52:48  <DJ-Nekkid> as in FF 01 00 00 AA 00 AB 00 ?
14:53:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
14:53:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> but don't take my word for it
14:53:16  <DJ-Nekkid> ill try
14:53:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> same reversal for the other ones, of course
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14:54:41  <DJ-Nekkid> //!!Error (62): Offset 8: ID 00 has not been defined.
14:54:48  <DJ-Nekkid> so i guess not, but brb
14:55:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> fine
14:55:37  <peter1138> It is right...
14:55:50  <peter1138> Group (W), Low (B), High (B)
14:58:55  <Eddi|zuHause2>         01 00 16 16 //Goto Set 01 wenn Callback zwischen 16 und 16
14:58:56  <Eddi|zuHause2>         00 00 //Sonst Goto Set 00
14:59:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think that one you got reversed
15:03:40  <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes, german comments
15:03:58  <dragonhorseboy> :)
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15:06:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> have i ever mentioned that i dislike programming in assembler? ;)
15:06:51  * dragonhorseboy pokes eddi with ASM links ;p
15:06:52  <dragonhorseboy> hehehehe
15:07:16  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: how is you NFO compiler ? ;)
15:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> i haven't had time for it lately
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15:18:46  <DJ-Nekkid> back btw
15:19:01  <dragonhorseboy> ;)
15:21:27  <DJ-Nekkid> btw, the symptome is that i only get the orignial sprite (SH40 sprite), and only one of them when i build the train
15:21:47  <DJ-Nekkid> but; this way instead u mean?
15:21:47  <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0 02 00 02 81 0C 00 FF 01 00 00 16 16 01 00 //<-- Articulation
15:21:47  <DJ-Nekkid> -1 * 0	 02 00 02 81 0C 00 FF 01 01 00 16 16 00 00 //<-- Articulation
15:22:32  <DJ-Nekkid> but yea! that worked!
15:22:46  <glx> it uses 0001 for cb 16
15:22:54  <glx> 0000 for others
15:23:53  <DJ-Nekkid> hey
15:23:54  <DJ-Nekkid> ehm
15:23:55  <DJ-Nekkid> yey!
15:24:25  <DJ-Nekkid> now i "know" articulation :)
15:24:51  <DJ-Nekkid> now the next trick would be callback 36 and the "additional info" callback
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17:38:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12145 /trunk/src/ (rail_cmd.cpp table/track_land.h):
17:38:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: includes should be at the top of the source file
17:38:31  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: undefine a defined macro once work is finished, just in case
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18:00:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12146 /trunk/src/table/ (road_land.h station_land.h unmovable_land.h): -Codechange: Use macros to build DrawTileSeqStruct-tables in station_land and unmovable_land.
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18:15:02  <Wolf01> evening
18:16:48  <peter1138> Hi.
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18:21:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12147 /trunk/src/table/ (station_land.h unmovable_land.h): -Codechange: Use macros to build DrawTileSprites-tables in station_land and unmovable_land.
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18:34:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12148 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Merge 'image' and 'pal' of DrawTileSeqStruct into one PalSpriteID
18:35:17  <Noldo> I wonder if it would be worth it to make facade objects for the different pathfinders
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18:40:19  <peter1138> What is a façade object in relation to a pathfinder?
18:40:44  <Gonozal_VIII> strange question :S
18:40:51  * blathijs has never heard of the term
18:41:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12149 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Merge 'ground_sprite' and 'ground_pal' of DrawTileSprites into one PalSpriteID
18:41:12  <yorick> what's that?
18:41:13  <Gonozal_VIII> and the c is broken
18:41:14  <peter1138> The context is "<Noldo> I wonder if it would be worth it to make facade objects for the different pathfinders"
18:41:31  <yorick> what's facade objects?
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18:42:04  <Gonozal_VIII> abstract class or interface (java stuff)?
18:42:11  <Noldo> object that has the interface to use a bigger contruct that is hidden behind it
18:42:40  <hylje> interface
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18:42:56  <hylje> high-level interface*
18:43:09  <hylje> makes a large complex thing a small black box
18:43:22  <Belugas> ho... i undestand Noldo's point
18:43:36  <Belugas> and they will become kinda pluggable devices
18:43:52  <Gonozal_VIII> same methods are called no matter what pathfinder is in use...
18:43:56  <Belugas> since they all have the same entry in the system, same singature and such
18:43:59  <Gonozal_VIII> basic oo stuff
18:44:06  <peter1138> Like the blitters and drivers...
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18:48:28  * Belugas nods
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19:10:33  <ln-> hmm, a lesbian kiss in DS9.
19:11:41  <Belugas> so?  lesbians cannot kiss too?
19:12:03  <Gonozal_VIII> they can
19:12:11  <Gonozal_VIII> and they should do it a lot^^
19:12:26  <ln-> i doubt the actresses are really lesbians.
19:13:45  <Prof_Frink> Mmm, lesbians
19:14:29  <Belugas> i doubt the actresses are really in space ;D
19:14:37  <Noldo> :D
19:15:42  <Prof_Frink> Mmm, lesbians in space
19:17:48  <Sacro> zero g boobs
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19:20:17  <Prof_Frink> Can I say... rule 34?
19:21:23  <Gonozal_VIII> for lesbians in space? are you kidding?
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19:24:01  <Noldo> hmm, RoadFindPathToStop doesn't have any code for OPF
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19:55:42  <Noldo> why on earth is that done with a goto
19:56:22  <peter1138> why not? heh
19:56:43  <Noldo> :)
19:57:08  <Noldo> RoadFindPathToDest functione
19:57:12  <Noldo> -e
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20:04:00  <ln-> Belugas: of course they are not in space, they'd suffocate. they are on the space station.
20:04:20  <Noldo> Maybe rvs aren't the best choice to do proof of consept on
20:04:40  <Gonozal_VIII> unless they're vampire space lesbians, vampires don't breath
20:05:13  <ln-> Gonozal_VIII: +e
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20:05:40  *** Gonozal_VIII is now known as Gonozal_VIIIe
20:06:42  <Belugas> hooo.. vampires.... me love!
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20:18:04  <guru3> <--- it's got lakes now!
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20:24:33  <SpComb> blockylegolandmassivegifimagethatloadsreallyslowly!
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20:24:47  * guru3 mutters about slow connection
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20:25:23  <dih> hello Belugas
20:25:38  <Prof_Frink> Mmm, lesbian vampires in space
20:26:09  <Noldo> guru3: so the generating doesn't take time?
20:26:16  <guru3> not near as much as the time to load
20:26:30  <peter1138> Bah, original aircraft speeds are too slow
20:27:04  <Gonozal_VIIIe> yep they are
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20:27:58  <Belugas> hey dih
20:28:19  <dih> how are you?
20:28:22  <peter1138> Which makes implementing a plane speed patch awkward...
20:28:51  <guru3> a 1024x1024 map took about 4.5 minutes then crashed because it ate all my memory trying to draw the image
20:28:52  <guru3> not exactly aimed at massive maps
20:28:55  <guru3> but theoretically possible
20:31:10  <Belugas> working like a *****
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20:39:19  <dih> any outlook towards more calm working days?
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20:42:54  <dragonhorseboy> hey
20:44:34  <Bjarni> hello Canadian dragon guy :)
20:44:50  <Belugas> ben oui, gar
20:44:52  <Belugas> don ca
20:45:13  <Belugas> hello Bjarni, danish deb
20:45:17  <Belugas> -b+v
20:45:20  <Belugas> o_O
20:45:25  * Belugas goes away
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20:47:26  <dragonhorseboy> so either way what both of you doing now?
20:47:55  <Belugas> me? going away and working like a horse, at work
20:48:01  <Belugas> him? canot say
20:48:04  <Belugas> +n
20:48:26  * Bjarni reminds Belugas that OSX and debian aren't the same thing
20:48:28  <dragonhorseboy> heh
20:48:37  <dih> lol
20:49:12  <Belugas> i should have said Bjarni OSX ??
20:49:24  <Gonozal_VIIIe> bjarni?
20:49:27  <Gonozal_VIIIe> bjarni!
20:49:39  <Bjarni> Belugas: now that would be something
20:49:41  <Bjarni> however
20:49:45  <Bjarni> what would it mean? :)
20:49:54  <Prof_Frink> danish deb? aptitude install bacon-sarnie?
20:50:49  <Belugas> pffff.... me and my typos :S
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20:52:17  <Bjarni> bacon?
20:52:21  <hylje> ill kill you
20:52:23  <hylje> TO DEATH
20:52:25  <Bjarni> are you saying that I'm fat?
20:52:26  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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20:53:14  *** hylje was kicked from #openttd by Bjarni [self defence]
20:54:35  *** De_Ghost [] has joined #openttd
20:55:43  * SpComb summons chanop powers from the almighty ChanServ
20:56:05  <dragonhorseboy> heh
20:56:09  * dragonhorseboy wonders what to do now
20:56:27  * Prof_Frink summons recover powers from the amighty NickServ
20:57:22  <Bjarni> dragonhorseboy: how about coding something unexpected and really nice?
20:57:31  <dragonhorseboy> what you mean?
20:57:42  <Bjarni> some great feature for OpenTTD
20:57:43  * SpComb patches openttd to replace all climates with toyland
20:57:55  <Bjarni> something so great that nobody thought of it yet
20:58:09  * Bjarni slaps SpComb
20:58:22  <SpComb> enforced five-minute play breaks every 10 minutes?
20:58:27  <Bjarni> it would be great, not a great disappointment
20:58:40  <Bjarni> SpComb: now that would be something
20:58:49  <SpComb> serial port connection for multiplayer?
20:58:52  <Bjarni> in addition to the warning about being too close to the screen
20:59:04  <Gonozal_VIIIe> built in time machine
20:59:13  <Bjarni> in fact it would use the webcam to verify that the user keeps a distance
20:59:14  <Gonozal_VIIIe> that allows playing multiplayer with yourself
20:59:15  <SpComb> a "go backwards" button next to the fast-forward one
20:59:38  <dragonhorseboy> not my kind of coding but ty bjarni :p
20:59:44  *** dih_ [] has joined #openttd
20:59:57  <SpComb> a tool that costs ,000,000 to use, and nukes a random tile on the map, irregardless of what's on it (your stuff, other player's stuff, town, factory, etc)
20:59:58  <Bjarni> dragonhorseboy: maybe this wasn't really what I had in mind in the first place :P
21:00:06  *** dih is now known as Guest181
21:00:06  *** dih_ is now known as dih
21:01:46  <Bjarni> <Xikaze> I believe my mom finally realized that calling my brother a son of a bitch was fairly stupid on her part <--- hahaha
21:02:38  <dih> LOL
21:04:21  *** Guest181 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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21:05:35  <dragonhorseboy> bjarni heh
21:05:37  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
21:05:52  <dragonhorseboy> there is one thing I do wish someone from ttdpatch would code but meh as if
21:06:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12150 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Fix (r12143): compiler warnings - possible use of uninitialised variable
21:06:10  <peter1138> MEH AS IF
21:08:06  * dragonhorseboy pokes peter to let me be able to add 'stationgui.old on' to the cfg file
21:08:11  <dragonhorseboy> :p
21:08:31  <Morloth> Any Squirrel gurus around!? :)
21:08:58  <peter1138> You can add that if you like.
21:09:25  <dragonhorseboy> peter...I dunno how to code these ttdp lines tho so
21:09:30  <Prof_Frink> Squirrels! With tits!
21:09:35  <dragonhorseboy> I took a look at the source+svn once and got lost quickly
21:09:49  <Bjarni> looks like Prof_Frink is possessed with Sacro o_O
21:10:10  <Morloth> You think I can safely approach him?
21:10:10  <Bjarni> next he will start talking about lesbian squirrels
21:10:38  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: No, just JJ
21:11:02  <Bjarni> JJ?
21:11:17  <Bjarni> lesbian JJ letters?
21:11:26  <Prof_Frink> JollyJack, a b3ta member
21:11:51  <Bjarni> leet is banned in here
21:11:57  <dih> what you want to do with squirrel Morloth?
21:12:20  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Well, b3ta is spelled b3ta
21:12:41  <Bjarni> what is b3ta?
21:12:50  <Bjarni> besides spelled in a stupid way
21:13:09  <Prof_Frink> It's a website and newsletter
21:13:19  <Prof_Frink> (And used to be a radio show too)
21:13:20  <dih> after 4lph4 and before 3psilon
21:13:27  <Morloth> dih: I read something about a 'require()' function. But I have no idea how to use it
21:13:44  <Morloth> I want to split my main.nut into multiple files
21:13:50  <dragonhorseboy> other than wanting ttdp to feature that parameter .. I guess I can't think of much else other than fully working ARVs, some ship routing tweak, and just a few misc craps :p
21:13:58  <dih> did you check the squirrel website for docs?
21:14:14  <glx> we have our own require()
21:14:24  <dih> i would expect require("file");
21:14:35  <glx> that's how it works :)
21:14:39  <dih> glx: i think he is refering to within the *.nut files
21:14:53  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: A sample of JJ's art:
21:14:55  <Morloth> dih: It's not in the squirrel reference manual
21:14:56  <dragonhorseboy> dih hehe
21:15:11  <glx> Morloth: of course, we added it in NoAI
21:15:21  <Morloth> glx: Thought so :)
21:15:46  <Morloth> glx: But how to use it? If I try require('pathfinding.nut') the program crashes....
21:16:28  <dih> heh
21:16:34  <dih> and with "" instead of ''
21:16:40  <glx> can you give me your .nut so I can try (and fix the problem if any) ?
21:16:58  <dih> glx wants Morloth's nuts :-D
21:17:01  * dih giggles
21:17:02  <Morloth> lol :)
21:17:15  <glx> @op
21:17:18  *** mode/#openttd [+o glx] by DorpsGek
21:17:23  <Morloth> glx: I've removed all require operations and put everything in one big main.nut file
21:17:46  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:17:59  <dragonhorseboy> about these files? crazy.nut am_a.nut the.nut
21:18:00  <dragonhorseboy> :p
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21:18:27  <glx> dragonhorseboy: you can give them any name, you just need a main.nut
21:18:36  <dragonhorseboy> ^_^
21:18:49  <peter1138> "<dragonhorseboy> other than wanting ttdp to feature that parameter" <-- PS, we're #openttd here...
21:18:51  <Morloth> glx: But you don't know what the semantics are? I mean, do I need to use require("filename.nut") | require("filename") | require('filename') | require('path/to/filename') | ???
21:19:08  * glx checks
21:20:12  <dragonhorseboy> peter..I was just poking at bjarni re "coding" ^_^
21:20:20  <dragonhorseboy> heh
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21:25:21  <glx> require() works for me
21:25:41  <glx> used require("test.nut");
21:26:05  <Morloth> glx: Ok... And you put this where? In you start function or in the global scope?
21:26:16  <glx> global scope
21:26:30  <Morloth> hmmz... ok. Thought the wiki warned about that... Let me try :)
21:26:31  <glx> begining of main.nut
21:26:59  <Morloth> K, would be nice if I could split the file. It's getting quite large :)
21:31:01  <glx> it works when I put it in Start() too
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21:31:59  <Morloth> that's weird...
21:32:19  <Morloth> Oh well, I'll try it later on. Thanks for your help!
21:32:58  <glx> works in constructor too ;)
21:33:36  <glx> maybe you split it wrong
21:34:05  <Morloth> lol :)
21:34:15  <Morloth> Well I split at classes
21:34:28  <Morloth> So each class gets its own file
21:34:36  <Morloth> *every
21:36:00  <ln-> Blu-ray seems to be winning.
21:36:13  <glx> Morloth: <-- that's how I did
21:36:14  <Sacro> ln-: HDDVD is dead
21:37:16  <Morloth> glx: Hmmz... seems easy enough :)
21:37:35  <glx> was just a quick test
21:37:42  <ln-> has anyone tried OTTD in Full HD?
21:37:53  <Sacro> ln-: yes :)
21:38:15  <ln-> great
21:38:22  * Sacro has 1920x1200
21:39:07  <ln-> i want one too
21:39:09  * Belugas has 2560*1024
21:39:23  * SpComb too
21:39:32  <Morloth> glx: Thx for your help. I'll get back to you if it still refuses to work :P
21:39:40  <SpComb> and yes, HD-DVD is dead
21:39:51  <Forked> 1920x1200 <3
21:39:59  <glx> I hope you use latest build Morloth (as we fixed potential crash)
21:40:36  <Morloth> I downloaded the latest noai binary 5 days ago
21:40:39  <dih> off to bed - good night
21:40:43  <Morloth> Guess that's the latest
21:40:45  <Morloth> nn dih
21:40:53  * Belugas loves his dual head display
21:41:05  *** dih [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:41:39  <dragonhorseboy> spcomb....I don't think so but then meh :p
21:42:14  <glx> Morloth: it's the latest :)
21:42:30  <glx> no recent changes
21:42:50  <Morloth> good :)
21:43:22  <Morloth> Btw, if you want to commit changes to the NoAI Api you must get access to the svn / cvs server I guess?
21:43:48  <glx> if you want yes :)
21:44:08  <Morloth> Good, to who do I talk for that? :)
21:44:45  <glx> submit patches in (NoAI category)
21:44:57  <Morloth> ok :)
21:45:48  <glx> and don't forgot to put doxygen comments if you add stuff (it's used to write noai api docs
21:46:13  <glx> indeed follow the style ;)
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21:46:30  <Morloth> yeah yeah yeah :P
21:47:10  <glx> anyway any addition is welcome (if we like it)
21:48:01  <Morloth> You're one of the devs on NoAI?
21:48:29  <glx> I made some things for it yes
21:49:15  <Morloth> nice :). I like the abstraction layer, it's only a little inconsistent; Some methods I'd make static instead of member functions. But overal a nice implementation :)
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21:49:48  <Morloth> To bad it doesn't include anything but 'StupidPathfinding' :P
21:49:53  <glx> thanks TrueBrain for that, he did most of the api
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21:50:54  <Belugas> not called Brain for nothing
21:51:27  <Morloth> It's a nice and intuitive stepstone to develop an AI. But I'm working on an AI implementation at the moment, so I guess I'll be posting some patches :)
21:52:11  <glx> we like when AI writers add things they need in API :)
21:52:25  <glx> instead asking us to add them
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21:53:44  * Belugas 's day is over , finally!
21:53:53  <glx> bye Belugas
21:53:57  <Belugas> i wish all a good evening :)
21:54:04  <Belugas> bye glx :)
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21:57:59  <Morloth> bb
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22:01:37  *** markmc [] has joined #openttd
22:02:11  <markmc> Haise guise, how do I get up the "cheating"-window?
22:02:14  <markmc> I forgot :o
22:02:29  <glx> ctrl alt c
22:02:41  <markmc> thx :)
22:02:45  <glx> or ctrl alt win c if the previous failed
22:02:52  <markmc> It worked :)
22:03:56  <markmc> Playing some old saves and want to change company ^^
22:04:13  <markmc> But thanks :)
22:05:22  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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22:14:02  <remaxim> hi Belugas
22:14:46  <glx> he's gone
22:14:52  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
22:16:21  <remaxim> glx, thx... I have to reach him sometime!
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22:31:38  <Morloth> Arg, I don't get it... I make changes to the source of NoAI, compile it... Then I want to use the new functions I created in Squirrel, but it complains it can't find those functions!?
22:31:55  <Morloth> I checked the doxygen and they are documented there
22:32:14  <Morloth> Is there some extra step I need to take in order for Squirrel to use these new functions?
22:32:33  <glx> you need to run in src\ai\api
22:32:40  <Morloth> ah, ok :)
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22:43:17  <Morloth> Whoohooo!!! All hail my powerfull AI! :)
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23:07:36  <glx> Morloth: you're lucky the function has not been removed with old AI ;)
23:08:05  *** XeryusTC [] has joined #openttd
23:10:25  <Morloth> glx: Yeah :)
23:17:57  <glx> hmm the @return seems wrong :)
23:19:44  <Morloth> ?
23:19:55  <Morloth> damn, letme fix :)
23:20:07  <Morloth> or do you fix it yourself?
23:20:13  <glx> I'll fix it
23:20:15  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:20:44  <Morloth> k, thx :)
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23:24:01  <SmatZ> hmmm malloc() won't let me allocate 10GB of RAM ... even on 64bit machine :-/
23:24:34  <glx> Morloth: I also noticed some type errors in return values in ai_tile.cpp
23:27:05  <Morloth> glx: type errors?
23:27:16  <Morloth> I didn't get any
23:27:21  <glx> int32 bla, return false
23:27:31  <glx> these kind of things :)
23:28:50  <Morloth> hmmz... didn't notice it :X. I'll check it better next time :)
23:32:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12151 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: use the correct types for returned values
23:33:18  <Morloth> cool, thx :)
23:33:32  <glx> now your patch :)
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23:36:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12152 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.cpp ai_tile.hpp ai_tile.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add [FS#1772]: add AITile.GetCargoProduction() function (Morloth)
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23:37:36  <SmatZ> hmm, ~8GB is limit for me :-x
23:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's a weird limit
23:38:13  <SmatZ> maybe it is sizeof(RAM) + sizeof(SWAP) :)
23:38:29  <Morloth> glx: Thx :)
23:42:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... i'm lost...
23:42:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12153 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_station.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: unmodified catchment radius is 4 not 3
23:42:53  <glx> Morloth: I noticed another little error ;)
23:43:17  <Morloth> Damned! :P
23:44:01  <Morloth> glx: I'll pay closer attention to my next patches :)
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23:57:08  <Morloth> I'm off to bed, cya later !
23:57:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12154 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: removed a magic number
23:58:46  <Wolf01|AWAY> 'night
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