Log for #openttd on 20th February 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> "blaugrau" != "blau"
00:01:06  <fjb> blaugrau = stahlblau
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00:01:50  <fjb>
00:02:22  <Eddi|zuHause2>
00:03:00  <michi_cc> for your further enjoyment:
00:03:04  <michi_cc> and I'm off to sleep
00:05:03  <fjb> Hm, another kind of blue. Never knew that. And the green could be a special color scheme for taking pictures. Like the color scheme for steam engines.
00:05:52  <Gonozal_VIII> oh nice
00:06:08  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess i'll have to update my patchpack again too then
00:06:34  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm not now.. tomorrow
00:07:46  <fjb> Ah, miche fixed the self locking bug.
00:07:55  <fjb> michi
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00:08:55  <fjb> I'm going to bake a new binary now. :-)
00:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: like i said, the blue was an invention of the 1950s
00:09:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> at the same time as the introduction of the E10
00:09:24  <fjb> The earlier blue looked almost the same.
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00:18:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a distinct lack of good diesel engines...
00:20:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> the V160 is too weak for heavy passenger trains, and the BR 232 is too slow for express passenger trains
00:20:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> so i don't have diesel engines for heavy express passenger trains
00:22:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm rotating my V200 right now
00:24:28  <fjb> Why do you not electrify that line?
00:25:06  <fjb> Or you could use 2 V160.
00:26:12  <SpComb> hmm... broadcast is difficult
00:26:58  <fjb> That did change a bit in v6.
00:28:06  <SpComb> but I've managed to break IPv4 broadcast as well, even though linux's AF_INET6 sockets should be backwards-compatible with AF_INET
00:28:45  <SpComb> a packet sent from an AF_INET6 socket to an IPv4 broadcast address doesn't seem to arrive at the destination socket, regardless of if that's AF_INET or AF_INET6
00:29:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> 2 V160? i have never seen such a train ;)
00:29:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i don't like electrifying the whole network
00:30:48  <fjb> Hm, maybe that is an oddity of the Linux networking stack. They had a strange v6 implementation at first. Maybe they didn't correct everything yet.
00:31:04  <fjb> 2 V160 were used sometimes.
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00:31:35  <fjb> And a line with heavy express passenger trains is a main line.
00:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, yes, but with very few towns, practically every line is a main line
00:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> it wouldn't be such an issue, if i had engine switching...
00:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> a V160 is fine in flat land, but on the hilly routes (that are already electrified) i'd rather use a BR 180 or something
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00:34:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> 181
00:35:15  <fjb> You could implement shunting.
00:35:29  <fjb> You would definitly be my hero then.
00:35:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> now that is a huge project ;)
00:36:22  <fjb> Well worth a hero.
00:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> but afaik, some of the ludmillas were built for 140km/h
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00:42:43  <Morloth> nn :)
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00:47:59  <SpComb> hmm... it seems that SO_BROADCAST doesn't get set on the server's UDP socket? How does it receive the LAN server-queries?
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00:56:45  <SpComb> I mean, does the LAN-server-discovery thing work in the stable versions?
00:57:57  * fjb doesn't know.
00:58:13  <SpComb> hmm, it does, in 0.5.2
00:58:38  <fjb> I like the bridges over many things feature:
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01:04:19  <Gonozal_VIII> such a long distance without signals...
01:05:09  <fjb> Why should there be any signals?
01:05:21  <Gonozal_VIII> for lots and lots and lots of trains
01:06:15  <fjb> I'm just making the trains longer.
01:06:37  <Gonozal_VIII> not helping
01:06:53  <fjb> Then your trains are still too short.
01:06:53  <Gonozal_VIII> much...
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01:07:42  <fjb> One signal every twenty tiles is enough.
01:08:01  <Gonozal_VIII> that means twenty tiles distance between the trains
01:08:11  <Gonozal_VIII> way too much
01:08:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have signal distance around the train length
01:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. 7 tiles
01:11:07  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: How many thousand tonnes do your industries generate?
01:11:32  <Gonozal_VIII> lots of industries use the same line
01:13:26  <fjb> The industries are randomly scattered around the whole map in my games. Using the same line for many industries is prefered, but often not possible.
01:14:13  <Gonozal_VIII> sometimes i have a feeder system with small lines dropping stuff at a hub
01:15:04  <fjb> That is ok when everything has the same destination.
01:16:24  <Gonozal_VIII> even with different destinations
01:16:46  <Gonozal_VIII> just let some more small vehicles pick it up from a second hub
01:16:49  <fjb> That can be really inefficient.
01:17:34  <Gonozal_VIII> maximum profit is with direct point to point connections... but that's boring
01:17:46  <fjb> But I'm also using feeder systems sometimes:
01:18:31  <fjb> Yes, that is boring. But the feeder system have to be in balance. Putting everything on the same line isn't the best idea.
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01:20:57  <Gonozal_VIII> if you have for example 3 power plants that want coal (station A, B and C) and the dropoff hub D, you can use vehicle orders like that: D, A, D, B, D, C
01:21:10  <fjb> Hm, that looks a bit different now. And I need more trucks...
01:21:30  <Gonozal_VIII> balances just fine then
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01:22:21  <fjb> Yes, but that is only useful if the power plants are located in the same area of the map.
01:25:01  <SpComb> right, seems I had some other irrelevant bug that I somehow managed to fix, it works now
01:25:19  <fjb> Self fixing bugs are the best.
01:27:12  <Gonozal_VIII> of course same area of the map, the hub is only for that area :-)
01:28:01  <fjb> Then it is useful.
01:28:55  <fjb> But I usually find the power plants at very different parts of the map. I'm usually playing randomly generated maps.
01:29:05  <Gonozal_VIII> me too
01:29:17  <Gonozal_VIII> but there are a lot of industries, even with very low
01:31:32  <fjb> Yes, but at least the ECS industries tend to die very quick.
01:31:47  <Gonozal_VIII> yes...
01:32:13  <Gonozal_VIII> would be better to start with less and have more appearing instead
01:32:22  <fjb> So there are very fast very few industies.
01:32:39  <fjb> That would be better.
01:33:47  <fjb> Maybe we could implement a setting that influences the random generation of new industries.
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01:34:56  <Gonozal_VIII> would be nice... and also better settings for the number of industries at the beginning
01:36:56  <fjb> Yes. The next Gonozal patch project. :-)
01:37:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> <fjb> Yes, but that is only useful if the power plants are located in the same area of the map. <- power plants should be one per city, and required for growth beyond a certain size, similar to water towers in desert
01:37:29  <fjb> Great idea.
01:37:58  <Gonozal_VIII> there's the whole city growth ruleset thingy somewhere
01:38:25  <fjb> But I fear it gets voted against for being to realistic and making the game to hard to play for most people.
01:38:53  <fjb> to = too
01:39:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> why hard? you can play perfectly fine with towns < 2000 people
01:40:31  <fjb> I can. But look into the different forums where people are complaining that TTD is hard to play.
01:40:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> town growth should depend on power and goods supply
01:40:43  <Fujitsu> TTD is hard?
01:40:52  <Fujitsu> I'd welcome changes to make it less trivial.
01:40:56  <fjb> Fujitsu: Don't ask...
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01:41:35  <fjb> I have seen people run out of money in a flat tropic world.
01:42:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> like without food up to 2000, without goods and power up to 5000 or something
01:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> and then more or less linearly with amount of power generated
01:42:35  <fjb> With breakdowns disabled ofcourse, else it would have been unplayable for them.
01:43:15  <Gonozal_VIII> advanced tab for the difficulty settings :-)
01:43:23  <fjb> How is the town growth working right now? I have to look at the source.
01:43:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> basically based on the amount of stations serviced
01:44:10  * Fujitsu hasn't poked around that part of the source.
01:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> which is stupid, because one big station is counted less than 5 bus stops
01:44:45  <fjb> 5 bus stops is a sure way to grow a town out of bounds right now.
01:45:01  <fjb> But what does a town do when it decides to grow?
01:45:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> it walks from the center tile along the roads until it hits a free spot, then tries to build a house or a road there
01:45:54  <fjb> Could a town grf implement the requirement for goods?
01:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no idea
01:46:19  <fjb> But it sometimes trashes houses to build bigger ones.
01:47:12  <fjb> What happens if the grf denies every possible building?
01:47:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have a station that was once inmidst of houses at the rim of the city, now most houses around that station are gone
01:48:06  <fjb> What kind of station is that? :-)
01:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think it has anything to do with the station ;)
01:49:23  <fjb> Does delivery of goods trigger any event? A callback in the town grf?
01:54:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm afraid you'll have to look that up on your own
01:56:40  <fjb> Is DaleStan still awake?
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02:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd take that as a no ;)
02:08:59  <Gonozal_VIII> i'd take that as a yes, but won't answer n00b questions right now
02:09:02  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
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02:16:52  <fjb> I should be sleeping anyway.
02:20:22  <fjb> Good night.
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03:02:42  <UFO64> Anyone know of some good diagrams for some station load balancing?
03:02:59  <Gonozal_VIII> pathfinder does that on its own
03:04:37  <UFO64> Yeah, but my current set up keeps ending up with a secondary bottleneck, and trying to eliminate that seems to end up in jams. I get the feeling I can single this way better, but my atemps seem to be getting worse rather then better
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03:05:09  <Gonozal_VIII> screenshot...
03:06:08  <Gonozal_VIII> there's also a difference if it's a loading or unloading station, unloading stations work best without any presignals
03:06:09  <UFO64> fair enough
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03:14:20  <UFO64> Here ->
03:15:21  <Gonozal_VIII> bah, jpg, awful quality
03:15:30  <Gonozal_VIII> what kind of signals are that?
03:15:56  <UFO64> Well, picasa felt like being agry with png, and i didn't feel like registering to a more usefull service, so it worked
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03:16:01  <Gonozal_VIII> should work fine with pbs
03:16:18  <UFO64> PBS, I have heard about it, but not read a lot into it
03:16:26  <UFO64> Path Based Signals, right?
03:16:30  <Gonozal_VIII> yes...
03:16:47  <Gonozal_VIII> don't let all lines cross
03:16:58  <Gonozal_VIII> they are all blocked if a train is on one of them
03:17:33  <UFO64> Aye, thus my problem
03:18:21  <UFO64> Isn't the point of load balancing the extrence to a station to spread the trains across the entrences?
03:18:39  <Gonozal_VIII> but not without signals between the lines
03:19:26  <Gonozal_VIII> three lines connected that way have the same capacity as one single line
03:19:37  <UFO64> Aye, I noticed
03:20:18  <UFO64> The only way my current set up has any advantage is if the 5 stations are full and trains are waiting at the presignals to enter
03:20:38  <UFO64> Then they can Que up in those bays, but beyond that, your corrent. Its almost like there is just one
03:21:45  <Gonozal_VIII> you can leave more space between the lines and place signals on the connections
03:29:04  <Tefad> transport tycoon music is up next.
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03:29:12  <Tefad> i rq'd it : D
03:31:25  <Tefad> playing now
03:31:26  <Tefad> woo
03:32:02  <Tefad> needs a bit of practice, but he's a cool guy : D
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03:41:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> UFO64:,%204.%20Jun%201965.png <- an old station of mine with separated entrances
03:42:00  <Gonozal_VIII> one of your escher stations again^^
03:42:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> "again"?
03:43:21  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
03:43:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> man, 3 tile stations look much tinier than 10 years ago...
03:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> that was the first situation when i said "i could reall use flexible brige ramps here"
03:45:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think that was my first openttd game
03:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> that was long before i ever came here
03:46:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't remember which version it was, though
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03:48:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> i wouldn't ever build like that anymore
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05:11:19  <UFO64> Thatnks for th example
05:12:02  <UFO64> I'm gonna keep working at it. I'd like to ha ve a better queing system overall for it. Allowing every train to each every loading area while being able to load them at the same time
05:12:09  <UFO64> Take care al
05:12:11  <UFO64> all*
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09:23:25  <zeroc> âñåì ïðÚâåò ÿ Úç ðîññÚÚ !!! ÿ òóò ïåðâûé ðàç )) õî÷ó íàéòÚ ÀåâóÞêó ñåáå Úç Àðóãîé ñòðàíû ))
09:23:25  <zeroc> All greetings I from Russia!!! I here first time)) wish to find the girl to myself from other country))
09:23:26  <zeroc> Badly I do not know your language translate through the program
09:23:28  <zeroc> &&
09:23:57  <ln-> use UTF-8.
09:24:23  <zeroc> Why everyone are silent
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09:24:51  <zeroc> ln- »  ??
09:24:57  <zeroc> íå ïîíÿë
09:25:39  <zeroc> Why everyone are silent Why everyone are silent
09:26:02  <ln-> you only arrived 2 minutes ago.
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09:26:26  <zeroc> The coding should be replaced to me yes??
09:26:54  <ln-> da.
09:28:00  <peter1138> :o
09:28:11  <peter1138> Even then, not many of us here will understand it ;)
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09:28:35  <zeroc> ln- »   ooo!!  very good
09:28:35  <zeroc> I from Russia let's talk
09:28:44  <zeroc> ln- » You are class Russian knows??
09:29:12  <peter1138> Do you... wish to find the girl to yourself from other country, or wish to talk about TTD-related subjects?
09:30:32  <ln-> or find a TTD-playing girl here?
09:30:45  <zeroc> I rich also search to myself for the wife not from Russia to me 20 years
09:30:58  <ln-> this can get entertaining...
09:31:35  <zeroc> I ñîîáÞåíÚÿ to you are clear? The coding normal I through the program translate
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09:36:23  <Morloth> Good morning everyone :)
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09:38:41  <ln-> zeroc: do you know what is OpenTTD?
09:40:39  <peter1138> 'is' goes after 'OpenTTD'
09:42:17  <ln-> damn, you're right.
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09:45:37  <mikl> Syntax error, unexpected noun 'OpenTTD' in line 1 ;)
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09:47:21  <mikl> expected adjective ;)
10:02:10  <keyweed> use nostrict;
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10:21:20  <Morloth> Is there btw an easy way to replace, say, all vehicles older then 13 years? I now have to find them all by hand and replace then manually, there must be a better way right?
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10:28:21  <Ammler> morning all, is beta new name for monthly? ;-)
10:39:09  <SmatZ> hello Ammler :) it is a coincidence ;)
10:39:28  <SmatZ> wow, 3 months since beta1
10:39:39  <Ammler> yeah, every month one more
10:40:51  <Ammler> what is the main missing feature for final?
10:40:56  <Ammler> plane speed?
10:41:14  <Ammler> or rivers for running game?
10:41:47  <SmatZ> plane speed for sure, and bug fixes
10:43:14  <Ammler> well bug fixes could also be made with RCs
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10:44:16  <peter1138> plane speed indeed...
10:44:28  <Ammler> the rivers?
10:44:44  <peter1138> Are only available in the scenario editor...
10:45:01  <Ammler> but that will change, or is that wanted that way?
10:45:24  <Gonozal_VIII> nobody coded automatic river generation yet
10:45:31  <SmatZ> :-)
10:45:43  <Gonozal_VIII> but i don't think they should be buildable by players...
10:45:55  <SmatZ> you can build locks and canals...
10:46:02  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
10:46:25  <Gonozal_VIII> that's what people do... but nobody builds rivers...
10:46:30  <SmatZ> :-)
10:47:09  <peter1138> Ideally rivers should created automatically and be immutable, but that makes no sense when you can raise and flatten mountains...
10:47:22  * SmatZ thinks should be non-bulldozable
10:47:26  <SmatZ> *rivers
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10:51:09  <Noldo> just make springs and floodfill from there :)
10:51:35  <Gonozal_VIII> lively rivers!
10:53:54  <Ammler> its no problem to switch so scenario editor in single player mode
10:54:09  <Ammler> but we mostly play MP
10:54:57  <Gonozal_VIII> look in the wiki for lively rivers
10:54:58  <Ammler> I think. it doesn't hurt, if you can build rivers in running mode
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10:55:56  <Noldo> are the river tiles just like canal tiles but different graphics?
10:58:28  <Gonozal_VIII> sloped tiles can't be passed by ships
10:58:34  <Forked> meep meep
10:58:44  <Gonozal_VIII> hi forked
10:58:47  <Forked> heya :)
11:00:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12188 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1782]: do not check twice for correct rail owner (patch by Vikthor)
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11:06:03  <SpComb> <-- broadcast works \o/
11:06:29  <Noldo> 404 - Not Found
11:06:38  <SpComb> hmm
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11:07:16  <SpComb>
11:07:49  <SmatZ> good
11:08:25  <peter1138> :D
11:08:36  <Gekz> ipv6 ottd.
11:08:39  <Gekz> that's a milestone
11:08:44  <SpComb> the server just gets listed twice because it gets both the IPv4 and IPv6 broadcast reply
11:08:47  <peter1138> we need to change the network protocol to handle ipv4 & ipv6 together :o
11:08:53  <SpComb> yeah, the masterserver's next
11:09:22  <SpComb> well, specifically, after lunch and four hours of lectures, for I must remember that I need to study as well :<
11:09:32  <peter1138> No, now!
11:09:50  *** DJGummikuh [~joey@ip3198.saw.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #openttd
11:09:50  <peter1138> What OS is that?
11:09:53  <DJGummikuh> -Fix: Enable YAPF to start searching inside a wormhole [FS#1704] (r12056)
11:09:55  <DJGummikuh> wtf?
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11:10:11  <SpComb> <-- the code's avilable there, in case someone wants to review it/give feedback on it, it probably needs a fair amount of work/#ifdefs to be usable in trunk
11:10:21  <SpComb> linux, ubuntu 7.10, amd64
11:10:45  <peter1138> Then what's the theme? ;)
11:11:03  <DJGummikuh> what is a "wormhole" in your terminology?
11:11:11  <SpComb> xgl/compiz/emerald
11:11:13  <peter1138> DJGummikuh, portal
11:11:21  <DJGummikuh> and what is that?
11:11:21  <Gonozal_VIII> tunnels and bridges
11:11:25  <DJGummikuh> ah ok
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11:11:43  <DJGummikuh> I just wondered what cool extensions yo were planning for openttd ^^
11:11:51  <DJGummikuh> Stargates and such :))
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11:12:21  <keyweed> teleporters would take the fun out of it, i think
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11:12:54  <DJGummikuh> keyweed: it's all a matter of implementation :) I would love to teleport some players on my server to another world or dimension :)
11:13:38  <SmatZ> DJGummikuh: you can use "kick"
11:13:49  <DJGummikuh> now where's the fun in that? :)
11:14:04  <SmatZ> :-D
11:14:19  <SmatZ> you will teleport them out of your server
11:14:28  <DJGummikuh> yeah and onto someone's else
11:14:30  <peter1138> SpComb, hmm, hardy doesn't seem to support that very well :(
11:14:42  <SpComb> emerald?
11:14:47  <peter1138> Yeah
11:15:03  <SpComb> I need to change it or something, though, because compiz doesn't support dual monitors very well
11:15:22  <SpComb> no windowsnap on the monitor boundary, and maximzed windows span both monitors, which is very annoying
11:15:33  <SpComb> particularly with websites that insist on resizing your browser window
11:15:44  <peter1138> Seems to work for me, using nvidia's implementation...
11:15:58  <keyweed> kill the webdesigners. websites should never resize browsers.
11:16:04  <SpComb> windowsnap on monitor edges with compiz?
11:16:23  <peter1138> Yeah
11:16:31  <SpComb> hmm... need to look into that then
11:17:21  <peter1138> My panel's don't work :(
11:17:27  <peter1138> No menu is shown
11:17:36  * Fujitsu puts on his Ubuntu dev hat.
11:17:48  <Fujitsu> peter1138: Do you have panels at all?
11:17:56  <peter1138> ... yes
11:19:20  <peter1138> Ok, it's emerald doing that
11:19:25  <peter1138> oh
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11:28:34  * SpComb wonder how many people who play OpenTTD have IPv6 connectivity
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11:30:41  <SpComb> well, they don't even hazve IPv4 connectivity ^^
11:35:39  <Noldo> :)
11:38:07  <peter1138> I did, but then BT stopped their tunnel service :o
11:41:01  <SpComb> what kind of tunnel was it?
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11:47:20  <peter1138> A regular IPv6 over IPv4 tunnel...
11:48:48  <SpComb> there's several different kinds
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12:07:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12189 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: mark some functions in train_cmd.cpp inline (called once or very short)
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12:31:44  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12190 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_base.hpp: -Fix [FS#1786](r8080): YAPF always shows 0ms PF time in debug for debug level 2 (patch by IguannaB)
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13:42:37  <brazuca> hi guys
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13:42:45  <Morloth> Hi brazuca
13:43:05  <brazuca> i trying to create my own server dedicated but im struggling
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13:45:23  <brazuca> anyone could help me?
13:45:48  <Morloth> I've never done such a thing before, I'm sorry
13:47:17  <brazuca> k tks
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13:51:57  <DJ-Nekkid> !seen thgergo
13:54:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Morloth> Is there btw an easy way to replace, say, all vehicles older then 13 years? I now have to find them all by hand and replace then manually, there must be a better way right? <- you can move these vehicles to a vehiclegroup, and then autoreplace only in that group
13:54:28  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
13:54:32  <fjb> Hello
13:55:44  <frosch123> moin
13:56:36  <fjb> Moin frosch123
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14:02:06  <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: K, thanks. I'll try that :)
14:08:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12191 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Do not start overtaking if the RV reaches wrong-way one-way-road in the next tiles.
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14:26:03  <debian__> How can I move something from an train to an ship?
14:26:40  <Gonozal_VIII> transfer
14:26:57  <glx> with joined dock and station
14:28:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> "transfer and unload"
14:29:08  <Gonozal_VIII> unload alone is enough if the station doesn't accept that stuff
14:29:34  <Gonozal_VIII> but using transfer is safer, if a new industry happens to pop up right there...
14:30:04  <glx> Gonozal_VIII: transfer is needed if you don't want to lose money
14:30:30  <Gonozal_VIII> really? but the result looks the same with unload
14:31:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12192 /trunk/src/ (core/math_func.hpp newgrf_town.cpp): -Fix: clamp various town variables to 16bit prior to returning the value
14:31:41  <glx> yes, but the unloader vehicle is always in red
14:32:10  <glx> and that's bad for the score
14:32:28  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't care about score^^
14:34:50  <Belugas> mmmh...
14:35:11  <Belugas> m2 for bridges is already in part used...
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14:38:59  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- that could free bits ;-)
14:39:17  <Morloth> Does someone knows how the running costs are calculated internly?
14:39:39  <Morloth> I have no idea what Vehicle.GetRunningCost() returns
14:40:08  <Morloth> I see the actual cost is calculated by dont a 8 bit shifts !?
14:40:11  <Morloth> *doing
14:40:55  <Gonozal_VIII> that's not the calculation, that's some strange bitmagic
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14:42:03  <Morloth>  Money GetDisplayRunningCost() const { return (this->GetRunningCost() >> 8);  << Don't think so ;)
14:42:28  <Gonozal_VIII> look at getrunningcost :P
14:42:29  <brazuca> could any of you guys do me a favor
14:42:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> Morloth: replace these shifts by multiplications/divisions
14:42:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> >> 8 is the same as /256
14:42:51  <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: I know how bitshifts work :)
14:42:57  <glx> and it's just for display
14:43:07  <Morloth> Eddi|zuHause3: I just wonder how I can calculate the running cost per year for a vehicle
14:43:13  <brazuca> could you check if !![HARDCORE].BRAZUCA is in the server list
14:43:15  <glx> there is a fract part
14:43:21  <brazuca> if it is available
14:43:28  <glx> brazuca:
14:43:42  <glx> if you see it there, it's ok
14:44:23  <brazuca> it is... tks
14:44:32  <brazuca> cya
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14:45:37  <Morloth> Balogh Armored Truck Running cost: 108090 and max age: 5490 << I get these values. max age is OK it's calculated in years. But the I can't trace back the value 108090. The running cost / year is displayed as: 844
14:45:48  <Morloth> 108090 >> 8 = 422
14:45:52  <Belugas> a good question for anyone playing MP : on a 2048*2048 map, at game's end, how many bridges, any bridges, do tyou think there should be, at the most
14:46:08  <Morloth> But I don't see the *2 anywhere in the code ?
14:46:20  <saati> Belugas: few thousand
14:46:41  <SmatZ> Morloth: do you use Pounds?
14:46:52  <Morloth> SmatZ: yes?
14:47:16  <SmatZ> Morloth: yes?
14:47:37  <Morloth> Don't tell me all values are mulitplied by 2 if you use pounds? :)
14:47:43  <SmatZ> no :)
14:47:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> Belugas: bridge usage should increase if flexible bridges are introduced
14:48:05  <Belugas> not the answer i wanted to hear
14:48:08  <Morloth> Oh, in fact I use Euros
14:48:11  <SmatZ> Morloth: Pounds are the base - if you use Euros, you will have prices multiplied by two
14:48:17  <Morloth> Ah...
14:48:51  <Belugas> a few thousands... that's the best estimate so far
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14:49:17  <Morloth> I had something similar with speeds, but I guess that's the same convertion problem miles <-> km ?
14:49:31  <debian__> Autorenew failed on train 13(money limit), why?
14:49:42  <Gonozal_VIII> what do you think?
14:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> on my practically empty 2kx1k map, i estimate around 200 existing bridges
14:50:51  <SmatZ> Morloth: probably :) but maybe the base for RVs is multiplied by 2 ... or so... I don't know
14:51:02  <Gonozal_VIII> what you should think is that the autorenew failed because of the money limit ;-)
14:51:13  <Belugas> where is dihedral when you need him :S
14:51:29  <Belugas> Any server admins in here??
14:51:35  <Morloth> SmatZ: It is ;)
14:51:50  <Gonozal_VIII> coop guys are extreme.. look at one of their finished maps
14:52:36  <Belugas> Gonozal_VIII, yuo're familiar with them?
14:52:58  <Gonozal_VIII> looked at one of them some time ago
14:53:33  <Gonozal_VIII> anyways.. limits are bad
14:53:35  <Belugas> answer is thus "no" :)
14:54:06  <Belugas> limits are bad, true.  but no-limit stuff has a price to pay too
14:54:24  <Belugas> so, it is a matter of balancing the pros and the cons to come up to a good compromise
14:54:41  <Gonozal_VIII> allocate the same size again when the first is full :-)
14:54:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> 640k ought to be enough for anyone?
14:55:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> or why not specify the limit in the .cfg, like for vehicles?
14:56:27  <glx> .cfg is the soft limit, there are still a hard limit for vehicles
14:56:37  <glx> s/are/is/
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14:57:02  <DJ-Nekkid> Belugas: u might wanna check out opencoop game #80 ... that were a 1k^2 map...
14:57:13  <DJ-Nekkid> count them and multiply by 4 or 5 :)
14:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> then i vote for a limit like 64k
14:58:09  <Belugas> spot me one with the most bridges on it, if you can
14:58:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> afaik it's the same as for the vehicles
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14:58:46  <SpComb> Linking ottd_master
14:58:46  <SpComb> shared/network/core/udp.o: In function `NetworkUDPSocketHandler::Recv_NetworkGameInfo(Packet*, NetworkGameInfo*)':
14:58:46  <SpComb> udp.cpp:(.text+0x6d3): undefined reference to `MallocError(unsigned long)'
14:58:49  <DJ-Nekkid> not sure if that one has the most bridges, but it's the largest opencoop game so far afaik
14:58:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> my bridges usually appear in pairs
14:58:51  <SpComb> it's broken! It doesn't work!
14:58:57  <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause3, that's the point of my query.  I want tio be sure 64k will be enough
14:59:05  <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: What money limit? And in beta 4 the popups that tell ho. much an train have lost is wrong.
14:59:12  <debian__> how*
14:59:17  <SpComb> and that's the unmodified svn:// source
14:59:46  <Gonozal_VIII> oh... so those wrong profit messages are not the fault of my patchpack
15:00:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i can't see me reaching that limit, but i don't play MP
15:00:19  <DJ-Nekkid> Belugas: 64000 bridges?
15:00:33  <Belugas> roughly, yes
15:00:46  <Gonozal_VIII> you should take some time to read and test all the patch settings debian
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15:01:06  <Belugas> 65535, to be precise
15:01:10  <peter1138> Belugas, you can always divide that into map areas...
15:01:15  <DJ-Nekkid> unless u make HUGE maps available (16kx16k or even bigger) any time soon that should be sufficient...
15:01:17  <glx> SpComb: really?
15:01:31  <SpComb> yes
15:01:35  <glx> bad
15:01:40  <DJ-Nekkid> <-- opencoop game 80
15:01:59  <Gonozal_VIII> if you want to be on the safe side... 2^21 is the absolute limit
15:02:21  <debian__> How many can play an mulitplayer game?
15:02:22  <SpComb>
15:02:32  <Gonozal_VIII> that's a 2'2k map completely covered in minimum size bridges
15:03:09  <DJ-Nekkid> debian__: 11 (or is that 12) atm, a patch have made it to 55 (or prolly 55 and 8 spectators plus the server)
15:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> SpComb: afaik it links to some code from the openttd source, have you included that?
15:03:32  <glx> SpComb: oh it's the same error we had with strgen
15:03:33  <SpComb> well, the externals, yes
15:03:54  <SpComb> MallocError is in src/core/alloc_func.{h,c}pp
15:04:20  <SpComb> but there's no core anything in objs/release/shared/
15:04:44  <glx> I have core in shared
15:04:59  <glx> but source.list may need updating :)
15:05:12  <SpComb>
15:05:26  <debian__> So only 12 players?
15:05:35  <SpComb> indeed, source.list doesn't include the core dir
15:05:57  <glx> shared/network/core/core.cpp
15:05:58  <glx> shared/network/core/packet.cpp
15:05:58  <glx> shared/network/core/udp.cpp
15:06:06  <glx> it does but only for some files
15:06:08  * SmatZ is sure he put core/alloc_func.cpp into source.list
15:06:21  <debian__> DJ-Nekkid: Where do I find that patch? Do I need an induvidual server?
15:06:26  <glx> SmatZ: not in updater :)
15:06:35  <SpComb> added them in and it works
15:06:42  <SmatZ> :-x
15:07:04  <SpComb> <-- have a diff
15:07:38  <glx> thanks (I can't compile it, don't have mysql dev stuff)
15:08:05  <Belugas> 741K ?  There musst be something wrong...
15:08:07  <glx> are all files needed?
15:09:48  <glx> SpComb: only alloc_func.cpp is needed I think
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15:13:56  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12193 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Rename a magic variable, give it a decent type, and remove a 'goto'.
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15:15:17  <glx> SpComb: can you try with only alloc_func.cpp ?
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15:18:08  <Morloth> Hmmz... I think there is an error in AIEngine->GetMaxSpeed. For trains it gives the correct values, for boats and vehicles the double value and for aircraft it's 2 km/h off the mark...
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15:18:37  <LordAzamath> hello
15:18:46  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12194 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: apply coding style on enum TrainSubtype
15:19:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> debian__: you do not want that patch
15:21:43  <debian__> Eddi|zuHause3: Why not?
15:21:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> trust me...
15:22:02  <debian__> I'm going to an lan, so I need to be able to play with a lot of people...
15:25:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> the limit is 11 players in 8 companies, you'll have to live with that
15:25:42  <LordAzamath> what patch?
15:28:29  <Morloth> Can someone explain these differences?
15:28:37  <Morloth> aircraft.h:     int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 16; }
15:28:43  <Morloth> roadveh.h:      int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 32; }
15:28:48  <Morloth> ship.h: int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->max_speed * 10 / 32; }
15:28:54  <Morloth> train.h:        int GetDisplayMaxSpeed() const { return this->u.rail.cached_max_speed * 10 / 16; }
15:29:41  <Morloth> If I call AIEngine.GetMaxSpeed, I have to devide the value by 2 for road vehicles and ships. Think it's related to these calculations
15:30:12  <Morloth> I can understand that 10 / 16 is the transformation from km -> miles, but I don't understand what's up with 10 / 32
15:30:47  <debian__> Eddi|zuHause3: So some players have to be in the same companies?
15:31:21  <glx> Morloth: internal speed don't use the same scale for all vehicle types
15:31:55  <glx> and 1/32 = 1/16/2
15:32:18  <Morloth> no its 1/ 16 * 2 ;)
15:32:25  <Morloth> of 1 / (16 * 2 )
15:32:36  <glx> (1/16)/2 :)
15:32:44  <Morloth> :P
15:34:06  <Morloth> ok, in that case there is an error in AIEngine
15:34:26  * Morloth puts his white gloves on and goes fixing :)
15:39:18  <Morloth> glx: Should I post patches at Or open a new task for them. I'm asking because the fixed I did are depended on the make_static patch
15:39:34  <glx> just show the diff here :)
15:39:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> arithmetic operators are left associative
15:39:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> so 1/16*2 is wrong
15:39:56  <glx> yes 1/16/2 was right :)
15:40:53  <Morloth>  Eddi|zuHause3: I corrected myself! :P
15:42:31  <Ammler> fjb: around?
15:42:41  <fjb> Me?
15:42:48  <Gonozal_VIII> no the other fjb
15:42:54  <fjb> Ah, ok.
15:43:04  <Ammler> yeah, you seems a little bit experienced with using ECS
15:43:12  <fjb> A bit.
15:43:20  <Ammler> I am packing a new coop pack
15:43:40  <Ammler> what do I need to know about ECS, about orders to other GRFs
15:43:55  <Morloth> diff -x .svn -r /home/bram/src_now/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp src/ai/api/ai_engine.cpp
15:43:56  <Morloth> 103c103
15:43:56  <Morloth> <                       return vi->max_speed;
15:43:56  <Morloth> ---
15:43:56  <Morloth> >                       return vi->max_speed / 2;               // Internal speed representation is in km/h * 2
15:43:56  <Ammler> I know, that ECS self needs to be like the IDs
15:43:57  <Morloth> 113c113
15:43:57  <Morloth> <                       return vi->max_speed;
15:43:59  <Morloth> ---
15:43:59  <Morloth> >                       return vi->max_speed / 2;               // Internal speed representation is in km/h * 2
15:44:10  <Ammler> Morloth:
15:44:13  <Morloth> Oh... :P
15:44:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> Morloth: pa... what he said
15:44:20  <fjb> Put the ECS grfs first, every other grf later. Put them before any town or vehicle grf.
15:44:41  <Morloth>
15:44:49  <Ammler> but after landscape or doesn't that matter?
15:45:06  <fjb> And order the ECS grfs according their grf id. But I guess you knew that.
15:45:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> Morloth: try "diff -u"
15:45:21  <fjb> Landscape doesn't matter.
15:45:43  <Ammler> ok, we have it after TTRS now, I need to fix that
15:45:51  <glx> Morloth: or just svn diff ;)
15:46:17  <fjb> TTRS will lose the tourists when it is before the ECS grfs.
15:46:33  <Ammler> fjb: no, TTRS is after, but the infrastructure GRF are before
15:46:54  <Ammler> I sorted the GRFs like GRFCrawler Categories
15:46:56  <Morloth> glx: Problem is that I have written several lines of code and try maintain like 3 different 'branches': The main branch, the branch with patches not yet in the main branch, and an other working copy :P
15:47:01  <Ammler> but backwards
15:47:25  <fjb> That is or. Landscape -> ECS -> TTRS -> Vehicles
15:47:29  <glx> Morloth: try using git or mercurial for your local developpement ;)
15:47:48  <Morloth> glx: Yeah... was thinking about something like that ;)
15:47:53  <Gonozal_VIII> action a stuff can be placed anywhere
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15:48:07  <Morloth> glx: or you could give me svn access ;)
15:48:20  <fjb> ECS has to be loaded before any other grfs that deals with new cargos. Stations also have to be loaded after ECS.
15:48:29  <Ammler> fjb: landscape - infrstructure - industries - buildings- stations -vehicles
15:48:42  <fjb> That sounds ok.
15:48:51  <Ammler> well, then I am lucky
15:48:58  <Ammler> :)
15:49:06  <Ammler> I don't need to change it then
15:49:41  <fjb> Newbridges should go after TTRS if you want to use them. And TTRS bridges have to be disabled then. Newbridges with parameter 2 gives TTRS road compatible bridges.
15:50:24  <Ammler> hmm, are you sure, I had problems with using newbridges after roadsets
15:50:36  <fjb> It you are using TTRS streets and DBset XL you should disable the road crossings of DBset XL.
15:50:50  <fjb> I'm sure.
15:51:32  <fjb> Enable the TTRS roads, but disable TTRS bridges. Load Newbridges after it and use parameter 2.
15:51:50  <peter1138> Yeah, DBSetXL has loads of options
15:52:08  <fjb> But they are easy to understand.
15:52:19  <Ammler> you can enable TTRS and bridges separate?
15:52:38  <Ammler> TTRS streets and bridges I meant..
15:52:41  <fjb> TTRS road and bridges are separate.
15:53:17  <Ammler>
15:53:21  <Ammler> parameter 3
15:53:28  <peter1138> Morloth, btw, internal representation is not km/h
15:53:35  <fjb>
15:53:42  <fjb> Oh, you were faster.
15:53:48  <peter1138> As mph/km/h is 1.609, not 1.6...
15:53:59  <Ammler> set it to 1?
15:54:19  <Morloth> peter1138: I know, but I think the internal calculations are simplified
15:54:29  <peter1138> The TTDPatch people were pedantic enough to insist that it is not 1.6 :o
15:54:33  <Gonozal_VIII> the grf defines km/h, so km/h are right but mph are wrong
15:54:44  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, no, grf does not define km/h
15:54:51  <Gonozal_VIII> sure does
15:54:57  <SpComb> <-- what did I managed to break here?
15:55:10  <peter1138> Speed (09)
15:55:10  <peter1138> Train speed is in units of mph*1.6, i.e. approximately km/h.
15:55:10  <fjb> ttrs3w.GRF = 0 0 1 1
15:55:18  *** raimar2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:55:21  <peter1138> approximately... the specification states it is mph*1.6..
15:55:22  <SpComb> network/core/core.h defines an enum with the same name that network/network_data.h typedefs to
15:55:49  <Gonozal_VIII> it's exactly km/h and the mph are wrong! because i say so!
15:55:58  <Morloth> I think Gonozal_VIII is right
15:56:05  <DaleStan> No, it's mph*1.56. Which is not kph.
15:56:14  <DaleStan> Erm... No, it's mph*1.6. Which is not kph.
15:56:16  <Gonozal_VIII> 1,6
15:56:18  <Morloth> the value of *VehInfo->max_sped is in km/h
15:56:31  <peter1138> no it's not
15:56:34  <Ammler> fjb: you should somewhere write down your experience with GRFs
15:56:52  <fjb> Hm, I should.
15:56:55  <Gonozal_VIII> but grf authors want it to be km/h
15:57:25  <Ammler> there are readmes for every single grf, but nothing for how to combine them
15:57:26  <DaleStan> No, they don't. They want it to be what it has been for years before OpenTTD was ever released.
15:57:29  <Morloth> If I compare the output of *VehInfo->max_speed with what I see on my screen in the vehicle info dialog it shows the same values in km/h
15:57:46  <Ammler> at least not much :)
15:57:57  <fjb> Ok, I'm back in about half an hour.
15:58:03  <peter1138> Morloth, not for high values it doesn't
15:58:08  <Gonozal_VIII> then mb wants his transrapid to have 502 km/h top speed?
15:58:39  <Morloth> peter1138: I noticed, the value for airplanes is 2 km/h off the mark as I remarked ^^
15:58:50  <Gonozal_VIII> and lots of other vehicles that are slightly above rl values...
16:00:51  <Morloth> peter1138: But it could be that internally the value is translated from km/h -> mhp by * 10 / 16. And if the value needs to displayed in screen it is again translated but this time by the correct value from mph -> km/h
16:01:24  <Morloth> But that would be very messy programming =)
16:01:41  <Gonozal_VIII> it's integer calculation, lots of rounding involved
16:02:04  <Morloth> that too...
16:02:23  <Gonozal_VIII> 5/2=2
16:03:34  *** Singaporekid [] has quit []
16:04:56  <DaleStan> If 502 is what MB coded, then 502 is what MB wanted. If he wanted 500, he could reduce the property by 2.
16:05:30  <Gonozal_VIII> some km/h values can't be reached
16:05:36  <DaleStan> Or maybe 3; there's got to be a few locations where an increase of one does not change the displayed speed.
16:06:49  <Gonozal_VIII> and it's 2, i changed it some time ago
16:06:58  <DaleStan> Which values?
16:07:11  <Gonozal_VIII> i think it was 200
16:07:24  <DaleStan> Oh, wait. Nevermind. that is the way it goes.
16:07:30  <Gonozal_VIII> goes directly from 199 to 201
16:07:51  <Gonozal_VIII> or something like that
16:07:57  <Gonozal_VIII> it was a multiple of 10
16:08:55  <peter1138> well, you are actually wrong. it was changed to be km/h internally once, but there were a load of complaints from grf authors so it was changed back...
16:09:32  <Gonozal_VIII> who complained?
16:10:24  <peter1138> can't remember off hand
16:10:30  <Gonozal_VIII> anyways... if they want to have mph, then why is it mph * 1,6?
16:10:40  <peter1138> and no doubt one of the complainants was DaleStan :D
16:11:27  <DaleStan> I don't think I said much. I do remember Pikka complaining that his trains were suddenly going the wrong speeds.
16:12:56  <Gonozal_VIII> mph or km/h would make sense... but a strange unit like mph*1,6?
16:14:27  *** DJ-Nekk|d [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:15:24  <DaleStan> Because that is what the docs say. I seriously doubt patchman invented a new unit just to mess with us; I expect that's TTD
16:15:50  <DaleStan> 's internal value. (Maybe CS got lazy?)
16:16:11  *** HerzogDeXtEr [] has joined #openttd
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16:16:27  <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. from ttd... didn't think of that
16:23:36  <Morloth> Date is such a tricky problem as well ;)
16:23:51  <Morloth> Some classes think a year has 366 days, others 365 :)
16:24:09  <Gonozal_VIII> 364 for running cost :-)
16:25:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12195 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1787](r12100): there can be oil rigs at map borders, do not set water class for them
16:25:30  <Morloth> there you go :P
16:26:17  <SmatZ> I suppose it is because of rounding
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16:27:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12196 /extra/masterserver_updater/source.list: [MSU] -Fix: compilation due to some changes in trunk
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16:52:10  <SpComb> <-- MySQL \o/
16:56:34  <yorick> ?
16:56:50  <yorick> are you rewriting the master server or something?
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17:01:55  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
17:02:37  *** Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
17:02:55  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02:55  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
17:02:56  *** UFO64 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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17:07:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12197 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
17:07:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1788](r12134): show correct last year profit when the train had negative income
17:07:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use GetDisplayProfitThisYear() to convert vehicle profit to readable form
17:09:52  *** Morloth is now known as Morloth|Dancing
17:09:55  <Morloth|Dancing> cya later!
17:11:34  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
17:12:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12198 /trunk/src/main_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#1789]: "Transparent buildings" now only toggles buildings, so show tick when buildings are transparent.
17:13:37  <frosch123> bugs have a very short life today
17:17:50  <SmatZ> yeah
17:18:33  <SpComb> yorick: adding IPv6 support
17:18:48  <SpComb> hmm, MasterServer::GetServerListPacket's max_count doesn't seem to take the version byte into account
17:20:09  *** nzvip [~svip@] has joined #openttd
17:20:16  <nzvip> :o
17:20:23  <nzvip> Anyone in here knows anything about threads?
17:21:28  <saati> you sew thing from them
17:21:39  <frosch123> general-, delphi- and java- thingies: yes
17:21:40  <nzvip> :P Not those threads!
17:21:42  <nzvip> Threads in C!
17:21:52  * frosch123 never used them in C
17:21:57  <nzvip> Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
17:21:57  <nzvip> [Switching to Thread -1209721968 (LWP 10765)]
17:21:57  <nzvip> 0xb7fa4550 in pthread_mutex_lock () from /lib/tls/i686/cmov/
17:22:00  <saati> that depends on the platform
17:22:02  <nzvip> This error makes no sense to me!
17:22:13  <nzvip> Why will it segfault at mutex_lock()?
17:22:55  <frosch123> Do you have to allocate a mutex-class, -handle or something like that?
17:23:06  <nzvip> I have allocated that.
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17:36:05  <toet> test
17:36:38  <toet> test
17:37:05  <peter1138> ...
17:37:50  <Gonozal_VIII> failed
17:41:57  *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
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17:50:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12199 /trunk/src/ (30 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: Remove magic around the results of GetTileTrackStatus().
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17:56:48  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12200 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix: force AI to build rail or road instead of bridges if possible, so it doesn't build bridges everywhere
17:57:38  <Belugas> SmatZ to the rescue of poor simple minded AI :D
17:57:48  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
17:57:51  <SmatZ> :-D
17:58:20  <Belugas> and Frostregen doing high intelligence exercises on trackbit stuff!
17:58:28  <Belugas> Frosch :S
17:58:33  <Belugas> not Frostregen
17:58:36  <Belugas> gaaaa
17:58:46  <SmatZ> lol
17:58:58  <SmatZ> yeah, it was really nice cleanup
18:01:16  <debian__> How do I bould aeroplanes?
18:01:32  <Gonozal_VIII> you already asked for trains and ships :P
18:01:40  <Gonozal_VIII> figure that one out on your own
18:01:49  <debian__> Found out
18:01:53  <Gonozal_VIII> see
18:02:01  <debian__> But witch one is the bombing plane?
18:02:07  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
18:02:15  <debian__> Please tell me
18:02:23  <debian__> My friend bombed my railroad
18:02:31  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
18:03:16  <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: How to bomb him back?
18:03:46  * LordAzamath just woke up
18:03:54  <Gonozal_VIII> sorry, couldn't type, laughing...
18:03:58  <LordAzamath> /and it's 8PM
18:04:00  <Gonozal_VIII> that wasn
18:04:03  <Gonozal_VIII> t him
18:04:15  <debian__> Who was it?
18:04:29  <debian__> And why did I get payd for it?
18:04:36  <Gonozal_VIII> an ufo has landed on your rails, random disaster
18:04:56  <Gonozal_VIII> you got money for that?
18:05:10  <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: Yes, and my railroad houses also dissapeared...
18:05:45  * LordAzamath wants to bomb his opponents' rail as often as possible
18:06:19  <debian__> I got payd for the railroad, not the houses...
18:07:06  *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
18:07:09  <Prof_Frink> debian__: Do you have a password on your company?
18:07:15  <debian__> Prof_Frink: Nope
18:07:23  <LordAzamath> check players list
18:07:27  <debian__> Where?
18:07:34  <Gonozal_VIII> guy with black hat
18:07:53  <LordAzamath> hold down the company manager button.. The first menu item
18:07:54  <debian__> No more than us now...
18:11:43  *** a1270 [] has joined #openttd
18:14:48  <debian__> How does shares work?
18:15:07  <debian__> Can I own the other company? Would my friend loose control of it then?
18:15:39  <debian__> !ping
18:15:49  <peter1138> no
18:16:11  <debian__> No I cant own it, or no he wont loose control?
18:16:53  <ln-> "lose" is spelled with one o.
18:17:31  <globester> unless it's loose controll
18:17:34  <globester> control :o
18:19:26  <Belugas> # Ground Control to Major Tom
18:20:09  <Gonozal_VIII> take your protein pills and put your helmet on
18:21:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you have loose control, you better fix it
18:21:10  <Belugas> # lift off
18:23:03  <LordAzamath> aaeeeaaaaeaea
18:23:34  *** LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
18:23:54  <peter1138> # it's been a long long time
18:24:22  <peter1138> # hasn't it
18:24:36  <Gonozal_VIII> what's up with that # stuff?
18:24:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> # vööööllliiiig schweeherelooos
18:25:13  <Gonozal_VIII> peter euro
18:25:50  <peter1138> # i know a farmer who looks after the farm
18:26:02  <peter1138> # with water here he cares for his harvest
18:28:28  <debian__> # peter1138 ?
18:28:47  <peter1138> # bang bang bang!
18:28:56  <peter1138> # and they're giving me a wonderful potion
18:29:08  <peter1138> # cos i cannot contain my emotion
18:30:13  <Prof_Frink> [  ]                          :)
18:30:23  * Belugas cries... it's not available on my system :(
18:30:23  <Prof_Frink> I cannot contain my emoticon.
18:30:26  <debian__> I want to win this game, what is hidden in the source code?
18:30:42  <Prof_Frink> The secret of eternal youth.
18:30:47  <Gonozal_VIII> the hidden secret is that you can't win
18:31:44  <peter1138> Belugas, can you youtube?
18:31:45  <Gonozal_VIII> no matter what you do and how long you play, there's always more to do
18:32:39  <Belugas> "they" kinda forbide it, and "kinda" disabled it :S
18:33:07  <Gonozal_VIII> "they" again! it's always "them"!
18:33:46  <peter1138> :(
18:33:55  <peter1138> can you voip? hehe
18:34:02  <Belugas> lol
18:34:14  <Belugas> neither ;)
18:34:16  <Belugas> but thanks
18:34:26  <peter1138> :(
18:34:28  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: A block shouldn't stop someone 1337 like you
18:34:52  * Belugas knows not much on network wizardy
18:35:06  <Belugas> eitherway, i've got some Mogwai going on
18:35:20  <Belugas> so.. it's better than nothing ;)
18:35:35  <Gonozal_VIII> oh noes! don't get water on them or feed them after midnight!
18:36:09  <Belugas> not a chance
18:36:19  <Belugas> at midnight, my headset willnot play
18:47:42  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
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18:55:34  * SpComb shizzles
18:55:52  <SpComb> a dual-stack IPv6 server supports IPv4 and IPv6, so what do you stick into the master server?
18:56:20  <peter1138> needs to be both
18:56:32  <SpComb> trying to stick both, but there's something weird about it sending the packet over IPv6 even though I have an IPv4 socket bound to an IPv4 adddress and sent to an IPv4 address
18:57:16  <peter1138> hmm, an IPv6 socket should still be reachable via IPv4...
18:57:37  <peter1138> sort of
18:57:49  <peter1138> well it works for :::22 ;)
19:03:39  <SpComb> indeed, but I didn't think the kernel would be able to automatically convert to 2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9
19:03:43  <SpComb>
19:05:21  <Yorick> hmm...I get my livebox configuration screen if I go to
19:06:46  <Yorick> it resolves to
19:08:51  <peter1138> yes, and?
19:09:12  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
19:09:34  <Wolf01> hello
19:10:02  <Yorick> hello
19:10:17  <Yorick> should it resolve to publicly?
19:11:04  <peter1138> well it's only a test environment
19:11:11  <peter1138> you'll need your own master server
19:13:33  *** mad_ is now known as farnsworth
19:13:53  *** farnsworth is now known as mad_
19:14:28  <SpComb> indeed
19:14:44  <NukeBuster> Peter1138, what kind of build system does openttd use?
19:14:48  <SpComb> the IPv6 one should work though
19:15:01  <Sacro> Yorick: wtf
19:15:05  <Sacro> it resolvse to .1.1 here
19:15:22  <debian__> I want an train to bring and take stuff, how?
19:16:53  <SpComb> and now it doesn't resolve at all
19:17:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> debian__: won't work with transfer
19:17:26  <SpComb> and yeah, I figured out what was wrong... it was, not >_<
19:17:42  <SpComb> so it was sending the UDP packet to my router, and I'd just miscounted the IPv6 retries
19:17:46  <SpComb> spent two hours on that...
19:18:14  <Yorick> you should thank me
19:18:54  <Yorick> "Bezig met het traceren van de route naar []"
19:21:16  <Yorick> :-P
19:21:18  <peter1138> NukeBuster, build system? Depends where it's being compiled...
19:21:53  <NukeBuster> If I compiled it in a linux environment?
19:21:58  <peter1138> VS8 project, VS9 project, or makefile ...
19:22:07  <NukeBuster> makefile
19:22:19  <Belugas>  <-- good.. I have the lyrics.  Now i need to SING them
19:22:21  <Belugas> ho boy...
19:22:34  <peter1138> they have lyrics? :o
19:22:53  <Belugas> i THINK this is icelandic
19:22:59  <Belugas> not hopelandic
19:23:03  <peter1138> heh
19:23:22  <Belugas> hopelandic, lost hope...
19:25:37  <peter1138> NukeBuster, so what's the question?
19:27:22  <NukeBuster> well I'm trying out the GNU buildsystem, with autoconf and automake... but while doing that I was wondering what openttd uses
19:28:00  <NukeBuster> (to get your configure script and makefile updated)
19:28:15  <Prof_Frink> How was it that arstechnica described autoconf/automake?
19:28:19  <Yorick> the configure script updates the makefile
19:29:08  <NukeBuster> Yorick, but the configure scripts has to be made from something.... or do you type the whole thing yourself?
19:29:40  <Yorick> I thought they did
19:30:05  <NukeBuster> with autoconf, autoconf generates a configure script
19:30:13  <NukeBuster> but it's quite a hassle...
19:30:17  <Prof_Frink> "KDE's build system was previously based on Autotools, an intractably arcane and grotesquely anachronistic cesspool of ineffable complexity that makes even seasoned programmers nauseous."
19:30:36  <NukeBuster> Yeah it isn't pretty
19:30:49  <NukeBuster> Documentation doesn't tell everything either
19:31:15  <peter1138> NukeBuster, ours is totally custom
19:31:52  <NukeBuster> Ok, thanks. Already wondered how you set it up like that.
19:32:40  <peter1138> It also sucks apparently, some people say, though without pointing specific reasons or parts that suck...
19:33:12  <peter1138> ln- is good at that though
19:33:33  <NukeBuster> Hmm, at the moment I like the way you made it. Because I don't want makefiles all over the place
19:34:10  <ln-> thanks
19:34:39  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: It sucks because it's software, and all software sucks.
19:34:45  <Prof_Frink> Some just sucks less.
19:35:06  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12201 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12060): compilation warnings - uninitialized variable when compiling with assert disabled
19:35:18  *** UFO64 [] has joined #openttd
19:35:52  <SpComb> <-- updated
19:35:52  <ln-> peter1138: it doesn't work with distcc the normal way, and the location of the actual binary is hidden behind "make run".
19:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> someone needs to branch 0.6, and then include YAPP...
19:36:17  <SpComb> terom@marttila:~$ traceroute6
19:36:17  <SpComb> traceroute to (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 (2002:5282:1012::1)  55.784 ms  55.915 ms  56.131 ms 2 (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9)  57.645 ms  57.787 ms  57.860 ms
19:36:21  <SpComb> hmm, smelly
19:36:44  <SpComb> terom@marttila:~$ traceroute6
19:36:44  <SpComb> traceroute to (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
19:36:44  <SpComb> 1 (2002:5282:1012::1)  55.784 ms  55.915 ms  56.131 ms
19:36:44  <SpComb> 2 (2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9)  57.645 ms  57.787 ms  57.860 ms
19:37:13  <peter1138> ln-, no, it's in bin/openttd
19:37:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12202 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Fix: When loading a savegame fails, don't start creating a new game, just go straight back to the intro screen.
19:37:19  <peter1138> that's not hidden
19:37:32  <peter1138> make run is some stupid shortcut that i never use...
19:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> Unable to connect to 2002:5282:1012:1234:250:8dff:fed5:c0b9: Network is unreachable
19:37:51  <SmatZ> I use "make run" very often
19:37:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r12203 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12199): Make trains pay attention to signals again.
19:38:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't use "make run", i always do b[PgUp]
19:38:42  <peter1138> b[PgUp] just beeps
19:38:50  <SmatZ> lol @ r12203
19:39:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> string[PgUp] cycles through the history of all commands starting with string
19:39:40  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
19:39:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> where the last command starting with b is usually bin/openttd &
19:40:09  <peter1138> not with my shell
19:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> occasionally it's bg
19:40:24  <peter1138> which appears to be bash
19:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> but not much else starts with b
19:40:28  <peter1138> also known for sucking
19:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i have bash
19:41:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> i found that it does not work in cygwin
19:41:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> so probably it has to be configured somewhere
19:42:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r12204 /trunk/src/core/math_func.hpp: -Fix (r12192): using UINT16_MAX broke compilation on many targets
19:42:26  <Digitalfox> If i set in messages settings, "Open/close of industries = OFF" and set "Production changes of industries served by the player = Full", will i be notified about my industries closing?
19:42:38  <Yorick> no
19:43:08  <Digitalfox> My objective is that i only know if my industries close not every industry in the map..
19:44:35  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
19:46:11  <Digitalfox> What does "company information" inform?
19:46:30  <Digitalfox> Bankrupt info/annual finances?
19:46:31  <Yorick> companies getting closd by autoclear etc
19:47:45  <debian__> Do I loose stuff stored in train stations?
19:47:53  <Yorick> tes
19:48:00  <peter1138> lose
19:48:10  <Yorick> yes*
19:51:42  <peter1138> HEATHCLIFF
19:51:49  <peter1138> # it's me i'm cathy
19:52:04  <peter1138> # i've come home and i'm so cold let me inna your window
19:52:35  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
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19:59:37  *** UFO64 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20:05:29  <Belugas> # Sheeeeee is susceptible
20:05:34  <Belugas> # heeeeeee is impossible
20:05:42  <Belugas> # Theeeeeeey have their crosses to share
20:05:48  <Belugas> # three of a perfect pair
20:06:06  <Sacro> <- Er lebt!
20:06:51  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:06:51  <Prof_Frink> I take it that translates to "He lives!"
20:06:55  <Sacro> yes!
20:07:10  <Prof_Frink> Ja!
20:07:29  <Sacro> Да!
20:07:41  <Prof_Frink> Oui!
20:07:52  <Sacro> Si!
20:09:10  <Prof_Frink> はい
20:10:21  <peter1138> # i love to watch things on teeee veeee
20:11:32  <SpComb> <-- topic
20:12:59  <Prof_Frink> 0.5.3, 0.6.0-beta4 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, NightlyArchive: archive, WIKI: wiki, SVN mailinglist: maillist, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 is mandatory <-- topic
20:13:40  <Belugas> # Heeeee has his contradictive views
20:13:50  <Belugas> # sheeee has her cyclotimic mood
20:13:59  <Belugas> # They make a study in despair
20:14:06  <Belugas> # three of a perfect pair
20:14:13  <Belugas> <--- lyrics
20:14:16  <Belugas> lol!
20:14:25  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
20:14:36  <Prof_Frink> # Before the leaves have fallen, before we lock the doors, there must be the third and last dance, this one will last forever
20:16:34  *** UFO64 [] has joined #openttd
20:17:07  <Belugas> # On this harvest moooooooooon
20:20:04  <Sacro> Belugas: spammah
20:21:40  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: hamtouchah
20:23:26  <Belugas> Sacro, singah!
20:23:26  *** Zaviori [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:25:02  * Prof_Frink queues up 6DOIT
20:25:04  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
20:25:13  *** Zavior [] has joined #openttd
20:25:21  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: It's your fault.
20:28:04  *** NukeBuster [] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12]
20:28:08  * Belugas whistles innocently
20:28:33  <Prof_Frink> (Music about insanity ftw)
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20:30:49  <debian__> When does the company start selling shares?
20:31:20  <Vikthor> after being 5 years in bussines or so
20:32:49  <debian__> Ok
20:33:03  <debian__> Is that so it will be wotrth something?
20:33:23  <debian__> And can someone point me in the direction of the shares wiki page?
20:36:13  <blathijs> Shares?
20:36:15  <Belugas>
20:36:43  <Belugas>
20:36:46  <Belugas> choose!
20:37:09  <Belugas> and SEARCH! :D
20:39:50  *** Born_Acorn [~bornacorn@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:40:29  *** Yorick [] has quit [Quit:  Always remember you're unique, your quit message is not.]
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20:53:06  <debian__> Belugas: It was small
20:53:17  <debian__>
20:53:32  <debian__> Make it more informative so I'll know.,
20:55:36  <LordAzamath> do static grfs have priority over dynamic grfs?
20:55:49  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:56:44  <Belugas> debian__, there are two ways of finding stuff.  One is following a direction to where those things are, the other is to know/learn how to get it yourself.
20:56:53  <Belugas> the latter has the advantage to be faster
20:57:01  <Belugas> altough it requires work
20:57:05  <Belugas> as in do it your self ;)
20:57:12  <Belugas> but it pays on the long run :D
20:57:18  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12205 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: rename RailVehicleInfo::running_cost_base to running_cost, inline with other vehicle types (It is the factor, not the base)
20:57:53  <fjb> And it doesn't annoy other people.
20:58:42  <Belugas> hey.. i did not said that
20:58:51  <fjb> But I did.
20:58:57  <Prof_Frink> But you were thinking it loudly.
21:00:30  <Belugas> LordAzamath, i cannot answer that one.  I don't know what you mean by priority
21:01:08  <LordAzamath> if I have two grfs modifying the same thing, which one will be showed, static or non-static?
21:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> LordAzamath: by default, static grfs are loaded last
21:01:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> but you can change the order in the newgrf window
21:01:31  <LordAzamath> hmm ok
21:01:44  <LordAzamath> but in cfg file?
21:01:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
21:02:07  <LordAzamath> just put [newgrf-static] before [newgrf]
21:02:08  <LordAzamath> ?
21:02:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think that will have any effect
21:02:26  <glx> won't change anything
21:02:36  <Ammler> hmm, is there a reason why they are loaded after?
21:02:54  <Ammler> not better they would be loaded first?
21:02:54  <LordAzamath> I had always the idea that static things run in background and others run over them
21:03:18  <LordAzamath> run (space) over * :D
21:04:28  *** UFO64 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:06:24  *** Zealotus [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
21:06:39  *** Zealotus [] has joined #openttd
21:06:41  <LordAzamath> gnight
21:06:48  *** LordAzamath [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 :]
21:08:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12206 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: A comma is not a rare resource. Do not hesitate to use it when needed.
21:09:34  <Prof_Frink> # I'm alive again, the darkness far behind me, I'm invincible, despair will never find me
21:13:08  <fjb> Belugas: Can I have that commit message?
21:13:35  * Belugas granted
21:13:55  <fjb> Thank you. It is widely applicable outside the OpenTTD source.
21:14:37  <Prof_Frink> As, Tony Blair, will, happily demonstrate.
21:15:48  <fjb> Does he never use a comma when speaking?
21:16:26  <Prof_Frink> # Deception of fame, vengeance of war, lives torn apart, losing oneself, spiralling down, feeling the walls closing in. A journey to find, the answers inside, our illusive mind!
21:17:45  <Prof_Frink> fjb: It's more a case of, he will pause, at random points, in the sentence.
21:18:32  <Belugas> instrumental songs are bad for singing, would I say
21:18:33  <fjb> Oh, not good for a politician. They should learn how to speak.
21:18:55  <fjb> Akapella...
21:19:39  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Only the overture is instumental ;)
21:20:14  <Belugas> # the holy city breaths like a dying man
21:20:43  <Belugas> Prof_Frink, try singing Mike Oldfield - Taurus1 ;)
21:23:34  *** Osai^work is now known as Osai
21:26:50  <Wolf01> 'night
21:26:55  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:27:03  <fjb> He is always too fast...
21:29:13  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Bye]
21:29:44  *** Morloth|Dancing is now known as Morloth
21:31:01  <Sacro> <- i want :(
21:32:52  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: But what would you /do/ with it?
21:32:57  <Prof_Frink> Apart from heat the house
21:33:02  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: compete with zernebok
21:33:10  <Sacro> run a shedload of openttd servers...
21:33:21  <Prof_Frink> shedload = 64?
21:33:55  <Sacro> yes :D
21:34:07  <Sacro> might even be able to run YAPF on ships
21:35:00  <Gonozal_VIII> with 400mhz processors? nowai
21:36:14  <debian__> Can ottd run on 400mhz cpu?
21:36:20  <Prof_Frink> Yes.
21:36:24  *** lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM]
21:36:45  <Prof_Frink> openttd has been known to run on a P166 w/ 32MB RAM
21:36:46  <peter1138> So, debian__, are you etch, sarge, woody or potato?
21:36:54  <Sacro> YOUR NAMING 2.2 POTATO?
21:36:56  <Prof_Frink> or lenny or sid?
21:37:20  * Prof_Frink is now known as kubuntu__
21:37:29  <Gonozal_VIII> not with shipyapf prof
21:37:47  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: No, this would have been when I had X on my libretto
21:38:00  <ln-> Prof_Frink: ClosedTTD has been known to run on a 486/33 w/ 8MB RAM.
21:38:13  <Prof_Frink> True dat.
21:38:19  <Gonozal_VIII> but that thingy should be able to run 64 normal openttd servers just fine
21:38:35  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [Leaving]
21:38:39  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:38:51  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: It could also host your irssi session
21:38:53  <Sacro> CIA censoredyst Jack Ryan is drawn into an illegal war fought by the US government against a Colombian drug cartel.
21:39:02  <Gonozal_VIII> way too much ram for that...
21:39:04  * Sacro wonders what a censoredist is
21:39:05  <Belugas> for what it's worth, i did not kicked Sacro
21:39:11  <Belugas> he did it himself!
21:39:15  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: I have an irssi host
21:39:15  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Arse splitting.
21:39:27  <Sacro> but when i press ^I it detaches the x-chat window
21:39:30  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has left #openttd [Leaving]
21:39:32  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
21:39:35  <Sacro> like that ><
21:39:41  <Sacro> and i have to close and reopen to attach it
21:39:43  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: So do I! It's the P166 w/32MB RAM I mentioned before!
21:40:09  <peter1138> Sacro, er, pressing ^I again reattaches it
21:40:13  *** ThePizzaKing [] has joined #openttd
21:40:24  <Sacro> peter1138: well whaddaya know!
21:40:30  <Prof_Frink> silly Sacro.
21:40:31  <Sacro> it does ^^
21:40:41  <Prof_Frink> c-a d detaches the window
21:41:43  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Can you imagine what that site would make of a cocklepicker analyst from Scunthorpe?
21:41:51  <Sacro> indeed
21:41:55  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:42:04  <Sacro> i suppose it's clbuttic regex abuse
21:42:42  <Prof_Frink> *cldonkeyic
21:42:49  <fjb> Belugas: It is Bjarni's job to kick Sacro.
21:43:31  <Belugas> Bjarni finds it amusing to kick a lot of people lately
21:43:50  * fjb knows...
21:44:00  <fjb> At least he kicked himself once.
21:45:55  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:47:33  <debian__> I'm a genious in this game... I hvae 1.300.000
21:48:02  <fjb> How great.
21:48:26  <Gonozal_VIII> profit per day?
21:48:40  <Sacro>     #define _________ }
21:48:40  <Sacro>     #define ________ putchar
21:48:40  <Sacro>     #define _______ main
21:48:40  <Sacro>     #define _(a) ________(a);
21:48:42  <Sacro>     #define ______ _______(){
21:48:42  <Sacro>     #define __ ______ _(0x48)_(0x65)_(0x6C)_(0x6C)
21:48:44  <Sacro>     #define ___ _(0x6F)_(0x2C)_(0x20)_(0x77)_(0x6F)
21:48:45  <Sacro>     #define ____ _(0x72)_(0x6C)_(0x64)_(0x21)
21:48:46  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: That was evel...
21:48:47  <Sacro>     #define _____ __ ___ ____ _________
21:48:47  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: You should see my horribly broken ttdpatch game
21:48:49  <Sacro>     #include<stdio.h>
21:48:54  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: *cough*
21:49:08  <Gonozal_VIII> wtf is sacro doing
21:49:17  <Sacro> that's some lovely code there lou
21:49:53  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: I was hitting the £2Gi overflow every day
21:50:06  <Gonozal_VIII> ^^
21:50:40  * fjb is playing with passenger destinations and ECS to not hit that overflow.
21:51:06  <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: Per day? I only see yeer
21:51:21  <debian__> ~400.000 an year
21:53:10  <fjb> I'm making about 9000000 after expeses a year in my actual game.
21:53:54  <Gonozal_VIII> i remember single trains doing that^^
21:54:24  <fjb> Yes, but it is not that easy to handle ECS. Much experimenting nedded...
21:54:24  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: I have ships making a loss on each journey
21:54:35  <Gonozal_VIII> that's strange
21:54:49  <Prof_Frink> Again, this is TTDPatch
21:54:50  <Gonozal_VIII> my ships always made profit.. not much but no loss
21:55:03  <Gonozal_VIII> is that so much different?
21:55:23  <Prof_Frink> No overflow-protect
21:56:46  <Gonozal_VIII> oveflowing ships :S
21:57:33  <debian__> I buy every computer that came along
21:57:42  <debian__> so I dont actualy do any building
21:58:31  <fjb> Buying computers in the game? You are sure you are playing OpenTTD?
22:02:45  <debian__> fjb: The AI's
22:02:57  <debian__> I'm buying them through shares...
22:03:07  <Eddi|zuHause3>  <Sacro> that's some lovely code there lou <- you did not show any code yet
22:03:08  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
22:03:27  <debian__> Gonozal_VIII: Then they can build for me...
22:03:44  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think, that's such a good idea^^
22:04:44  <debian__> Can I turn off the siund effects?
22:04:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> my current profit is 230.000.000 per year
22:05:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> debian__: yes, click on the notes icon on the right of the main toolbar
22:05:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> then turn the sound effects volume to 0
22:07:09  <debian__> That was nice
22:07:34  <debian__> The music is nice, but the constant train noise was annoying.
22:08:30  * glx plays without music, but likes the train noise
22:08:53  <fjb> Hm, is digging tunnels under oil wells a good idea...?
22:09:16  * fjb didn't get music working yet.
22:10:28  <debian__> Why does the AI's borrow so much money?
22:11:39  <fjb> Because it fails to make profit.
22:12:37  <debian__> I'm making profit, and I only buy AI's!
22:12:49  <peter1138> debian__, so have you considered a more suitable nickname for IRC?
22:12:59  <Sacro> like root!
22:13:23  <fjb> peter1138: Maybe his real name is Deborah Ian...
22:13:29  <Gonozal_VIII> how about "/quit"
22:13:31  <Sacro> haha
22:14:00  <debian__> Is this better?
22:14:15  <Gonozal_VIII> "this"?
22:14:18  *** debian__ is now known as IRC-Nick
22:14:21  <IRC-Nick> Now?
22:14:31  <Prof_Frink> not really :/
22:14:49  * fjb thinks that IRC-Nick is a very creative guy.
22:15:03  *** IRC-Nick is now known as yzaLyzarC
22:15:07  <yzaLyzarC> This?
22:15:16  <peter1138> CrazyLazy? heh
22:15:29  <yzaLyzarC> peter1138: Is it suitabole for me?
22:15:49  <peter1138> I don't know you well enough :p
22:15:59  <yzaLyzarC> From what you've seen today!
22:16:11  <fjb> How about: vqvbg :-)
22:16:31  <peter1138> :o
22:16:45  <Gonozal_VIII> he's letting the ai build for him
22:16:51  <Gonozal_VIII> i think the nick is fitting
22:18:22  <yzaLyzarC> Gonozal_VIII: Thank you!
22:18:37  <peter1138> heh
22:20:10  <yzaLyzarC> I have a company value of: ~8.800.000
22:20:29  <yzaLyzarC> Year 1976
22:23:09  * fjb has a company value of 34597818 in August 1951.
22:23:47  <yzaLyzarC> If I tell it to automagicaly change from diesel to electrical, will it update the rails?
22:24:03  <fjb> No
22:24:35  <yzaLyzarC> I think it did, or the elektronic train is driving on diesles tracks
22:26:02  <Sacro> diesles?
22:26:16  <Prof_Frink> diseasels.
22:26:17  <yzaLyzarC> Disel?
22:26:36  <peter1138> Prof_Frink is a Dieselist
22:26:43  <yzaLyzarC> And as far as I can see it updates the tracks!
22:27:40  <yzaLyzarC> Or else it is an bug...
22:28:52  <fjb> Was the track build by the ai? It usually builds electrified tracks.
22:29:10  <yzaLyzarC> fjb: Maybe...
22:29:14  <ln-> is there a cheap (USB or PCI) soundcard that can output AC3?
22:29:24  <Sacro> wow, that was good
22:29:28  <Sacro> ln-: you mean undecoded?
22:29:40  <yzaLyzarC> Can I upgrade railways?
22:30:10  <ln-> Sacro: no, i want AC3 verbatim in coaxial form.
22:30:10  * Sacro has a soundcard that outputs dts amd dolby digital
22:30:19  <Sacro> ln-: yes, creative ones can
22:30:39  <Sacro> actually, onboard ones might too
22:31:04  <ln-> i've got SPDIF out integrated on my motherboard, but it's unfortunately unable to output AC3 properly under linux.
22:31:20  <Sacro> hmm :s
22:31:22  *** NukeBuster [] has quit [Quit: using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.3.12]
22:31:25  <Sacro> linux support is a puzzler
22:31:31  <Sacro> maybe an emu10k1 card would be better
22:31:54  *** NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
22:31:56  <Sacro> <- that'd be good
22:32:02  <Sacro> but i think that is emu20k1
22:32:05  <Sacro> or 10k2
22:32:06  <ln-> depending on the decoder in the amplifier, there is either sound or no sound. it doesn't properly set some AC3 bit on, but some decoders ignore that.
22:32:08  <Sacro> i can never recall
22:32:27  <ln-> says internet.
22:33:13  <fjb> yzaLyzarC: That is what the upgrade button is for.
22:33:49  *** fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
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22:35:58  <fjb_> yzaLyzarC: Did you ever try to find out any function of the game by your own?
22:35:58  <yzaLyzarC> I found it
22:36:20  <yzaLyzarC> fjb_: I managed to open the game, and install almost without help...
22:36:55  <fjb_> And now the rest of the world is there to tell you what you have to do?
22:38:20  <yzaLyzarC> fjb_: No, only a few guys on irc
22:40:02  <fjb_> I guess that guys will stop to answer your questions if you are to lazy to read the manual or even the tooltips.
22:40:14  * Sacro tests LOTR:FOTR in surround
22:40:20  <Sacro> errr. no
22:40:24  <Sacro> that's Juno
22:41:14  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:41:47  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
22:47:23  <yzaLyzarC> This might seam like a stupid question but, where is the manual?
22:47:29  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: The soviets! Tanks incom...]
22:48:57  <peter1138> i think
22:49:25  <peter1138> g'night
22:49:26  *** peter1138 [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
22:53:03  *** XeryusTC [] has quit [Quit: May the ducttape be with you]
22:53:47  <yzaLyzarC> Is the person who made this game here?
22:54:03  <yzaLyzarC> The person who open-sourced it!
22:54:34  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
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22:55:16  <Sacro> yzaLyzarC: no, yes
22:55:48  <Sacro> @seen ludde
22:55:49  <DorpsGek> Sacro: ludde was last seen in #openttd 6 weeks, 1 day, 2 hours, 32 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <ludde> :)
22:56:46  <yzaLyzarC> Is ludde the person who open-sourced this game?
22:57:00  <ln-> "open-sourced"...
22:57:04  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit []
22:57:15  <ln-> no, the game was never open-sourced.
22:57:45  <fjb> Oh, somebody exorcized our ghost... :-(
22:58:12  <Prof_Frink> ln-: Well, when it only existed on ludde's hard drive it was effectively closed source
22:58:18  <yzaLyzarC> ln-: Definition on the word open-sourcED, bavaward engeenering to get the source code of something.
22:58:29  <Sacro> yzaLyzarC: no, orudge did that
22:58:35  <Sacro> well...
22:58:39  <ln-> "bavaward engeenering"...
22:58:49  <Sacro> ludde owned the copyright, so techincally he "open sourced"
22:58:56  <Sacro> but orudge released it to the hounds
22:59:00  <Sacro> err s/hounds/world/
22:59:43  <yzaLyzarC> So ludde made the original game? He didnt backward engeneer anything?
23:00:22  <Prof_Frink> Chris Sawyer made Transport Tycoon.
23:00:25  <Sacro> no, Chris Sawyer made the original game
23:00:30  <Sacro> and ludde backwards engineered fit
23:00:50  <fjb> Reengeneering never opens the source. You get an alternate source that leads to that executable.
23:01:17  <yzaLyzarC> fjb: To the ecsact same executable?
23:01:23  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: With reference to Marcin's internals that were done for TTDPatch
23:01:31  <Sacro> ?
23:01:44  <fjb> yzaLyzarC: Ofcourse. Start thinking.
23:01:46  <Sacro> fjb: that word requires an i ;)
23:02:04  <yzaLyzarC> fjb: Can it be done with any executaboles?
23:02:12  <Sacro> yep
23:02:22  <fjb> Sacro: Ok, then I buy an i.
23:03:11  <Sacro> can i have an i please bob?
23:03:37  <ln-> 00:58 < yzaLyzarC> ln-: Definition on the word open-sourcED, bavaward engeenering to get the source code of something.  <--- this is YOUR definition of it, but not a commonly accepted definition.
23:05:14  <yzaLyzarC> Open-sourced means to release the source-code, agreed?
23:06:09  <ln-> of something you have the source to.
23:06:26  <ln-> and you own the source.
23:06:56  <ln-> neither of those were true in this case, except on the ludde-orudge scale.
23:07:31  <yzaLyzarC> You dont have to own it, only in some way be able to release it to the general public!
23:07:56  <ln-> that is not the commonly accepted definition, i claim.
23:08:01  <fjb> Ludde never had the TTD source code.
23:09:20  <yzaLyzarC> fjb: He made it from assembely, why dont people still code assembely?!
23:09:47  <fjb> Do you still do it?
23:10:01  <Prof_Frink> yzaLyzarC: People do.
23:10:07  <Prof_Frink> patchman for one.
23:10:45  <fjb> People do it in special cases for special reasons.
23:22:57  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:24:48  <yzaLyzarC> I would love to manually put bits on my hd with an magnet
23:25:24  <fjb> Buy a magnet and do it.
23:25:45  <Prof_Frink> yzaLyzarC: Magnet? Pfft. Use a butterfly.
23:26:00  *** peter1138 [~petern@] has joined #openttd
23:26:03  *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ
23:26:19  <yzaLyzarC> Can openttd be run in an ssh console?
23:28:25  <fjb> The dedicated server can without question. The version with the X interface can if you enable X forwarding in ssh.
23:28:42  <peter1138> fjb, and if you like it slow...
23:29:01  <ln-> morning, peter
23:29:38  <glx> lol
23:29:40  <fjb> peter1138: He didn't aks for speed. And I don't think speed is important for somebody who wants to manipulate bits on his hard disk using a magnet.
23:29:47  *** divo [] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
23:30:38  <Sacro> heh, i've done x-forwarding ottd before
23:30:50  <Sacro> hmm, i just realised i left my laptop next to a 380W subwoofer
23:31:15  <Gonozal_VIII> hehehe
23:31:21  <fjb> Sacro: That shouldn't harm it.
23:31:24  <Gonozal_VIII> better chech the hd then
23:31:29  <Gonozal_VIII> -h+k
23:31:50  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: Better use an unified diff.
23:31:58  <Sacro> fjb: it came with a note saying "DO NOT PLACE THIS SUBWOOFER WITHIN 60cm (2 foot) OF ANY PC/MONITOR/TV"
23:32:19  <Sacro> and the box has a "WARNING: MAGNETIC CONTENTS INSIDE" sticker
23:32:39  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Does it warp the fabric of thyme and space?
23:32:44  <fjb> It would influence the display tube.
23:33:16  <Gonozal_VIII> indeed it does prof, any matter does that
23:33:17  <fjb> But I doubt that it will have any influence on your hd.
23:33:56  *** NukeBuster [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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23:35:53  <Sacro> hmm
23:36:55  *** Tekky [] has joined #openttd
23:37:05  <Sacro> any chance of an L shaped openttd window?
23:37:07  <Sacro> hey Tekky
23:37:14  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
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23:40:49  <Tekky> hi :)
23:41:25  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
23:41:39  <Tekky> I've just been testing the new version of YAPP, I'm impressed :)
23:42:09  <peter1138> Another new one? :o
23:42:24  <fjb> Hi Tekky
23:42:51  <Tekky> peter1138: I've only tested YAPP version 4 today, although it has been already released 3 days ago.
23:43:49  <peter1138> Ah right...
23:43:51  <fjb> 4.3 is great.
23:44:31  <Tekky> automatic train reversal is a pain in version 4 though, if you mix traditional and PBS signals.
23:44:44  <fjb> You can switch that off.
23:44:49  <peter1138> Isn't it, Sacro :D
23:45:22  <Sacro> peter1138: what?
23:45:25  <ben_goodger> yapp?
23:45:37  <fjb> wait_for_pbs_path = 255
23:45:53  <Tekky> ben_goodger: YAPP = Yet Another PBS Patch
23:46:07  <fjb> ben_goodger:
23:46:12  <ben_goodger> thank you
23:46:17  <ben_goodger> I ask only because the wiki lies bereft
23:46:20  <Sacro> Police in the Czech republic are trying to find out who stole a 4 tonne railway bridge from the border town of Cheb.
23:46:20  <Sacro> The company which was responsible for looking after the bridge raised the alarm when, ever alert, they noticed that the bridge wasn't there any more.
23:46:34  <ben_goodger> heh
23:47:21  <Sacro> how does someone steal a bridge :\
23:47:32  <peter1138> Sacro, is it the same organisation that keeps losing CDs?
23:47:39  <Tekky> fjb: you can only switch off trains waiting for a PBS paths, but you can't switch off waiting time in front of standard signals. And michi_cc added a feature which prevents trains from moving after reversing in blocks with PBS signals. This causes trains to deadlock in PBS areas when reversing in front of a non-PBS signal.
23:47:40  <fjb> A steel mill disappeared in China about 30 years ago.
23:47:43  <Sacro> peter1138: possibly
23:48:11  <Morloth> peter1138: I though you went to bed? ;)
23:48:21  <fjb> Tekky: Ah, ok.
23:48:52  <Gonozal_VIII> steal mills disappear ingame all the time
23:49:18  <fjb> Where is the chinese rail set?
23:49:39  <Prof_Frink> chinrail!
23:50:18  <fjb> Lots of steam engines and the transrapid.
23:50:20  <Vikthor> Sacro:  If you were living here, in Czech republic such news couldn't surprise you anymore
23:50:40  <Tekky> that newGRF railset does not allow any multiplayer, though, because all transportation is monopolized by the state company :)
23:50:55  <ben_goodger> hmm, looks good
23:50:59  <fjb> :-)
23:51:13  <fjb> Perfect for the coop guys.
23:51:18  <Tekky> hehe
23:51:47  <peter1138> right
23:51:51  <peter1138> g'night again
23:51:53  <fjb> left
23:51:58  *** peter1138 [~petern@] has quit [Quit: bwaaahahaha, te eeeh eeehee boingk!]
23:52:11  <fjb> Oh, he really left.
23:53:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... something is wrong... there is a wagon missing...
23:53:30  <fjb> It got stolen.
23:53:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> i did not get the 120km/h gondola wagon
23:54:07  <fjb> In which year are you?
23:54:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> 1986, i got all the other wagons a while ago
23:54:40  <fjb> It comes really late.
23:54:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, that is the self discharging wagon that comes in 1990
23:55:00  *** phryx [] has joined #openttd
23:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> but the gondola wagon should come with the others
23:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> DB Hochbordwagen   rotbraun   1970   30 t   Getreide   Kohle, Eisenerz, Waren
23:56:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> DB Selbstentladewagen   rotbraun verkehrsrot   1990  1997   120   Eisenerz   Kohle, Getreide
23:56:07  <fjb> Hm, strange.
23:56:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> they are different wagons
23:56:21  <fjb> I thought about the later.
23:56:51  <fjb> You probably were not nice to MB and this is his revenge.
23:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah. sure. :p
23:57:40  <fjb> Do you have any other grf loaded which could cause a conflict?
23:59:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> not that i know of

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