Log for #openttd on 8th March 2008:
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00:02:31  <Gonozal_VIII> liar
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00:10:45  <Poopsmith> sup yo?
00:13:34  <Gonozal_VIII> a lot!
00:13:40  <Gonozal_VIII> a lot of nothing
00:13:44  <lolman> The sky, usually
00:14:44  <Poopsmith> lolman: true. true.
00:15:23  <Poopsmith> Gonozal_VIII: same. a bit sick so i'm avoiding doing anything that feels remotely like work ;)
00:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't see any sky
00:17:54  <Gonozal_VIII> going around upside down all the time sounds like work to me...
00:21:14  <Gonozal_VIII> why the hell would somebody remove the sound from a subbed video
00:21:35  <Poopsmith> o_O
00:22:58  <Gonozal_VIII> <-- watching anime again
00:23:08  <Gonozal_VIII> japanese with english subtitles
00:23:12  <Gonozal_VIII> dub sucks
00:23:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> so why not japanese with german subtitles?
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00:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> or japanese with japanese subtitles ;)
00:24:28  <Gonozal_VIII> there are not many of those and the german subtitles are usually lower quality
00:24:36  <Gonozal_VIII> makes a lot of sense^^
00:24:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, a lot of people view stuff in english with english subtitles ;)
00:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> reading is usually easier than listening
00:25:42  <Gonozal_VIII> english, french, spanish and italian are the most common subtitle languages
00:26:25  <Gonozal_VIII> at least for the stuff i found so far
00:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> i was under the impression there was quite a big german subbing community for anime
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00:29:06  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe that veohtv thingy just doesn't search in the right places
00:29:20  <Gonozal_VIII> but i prefer english anyways
00:30:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> when you view it translated anyway, there is not much sense to prefer english over german
00:31:23  <Gonozal_VIII> i guess that's not the case everywhere but i watched some stuff with both english and german subs and the english made more sense
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01:13:06  <Sacro> ahh admiral ackbar
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01:28:52  <Sacro> Как прПпатчОть KDE2 пПЎ FreeBSD?
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01:47:16  <Wolf01|AWAY> night
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02:03:13  <UFO64> eavning all
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02:38:48  <Belugas> compile farm ? devs?  what about them?
02:49:39  <Gekz>
02:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume he is talking about his patch pack
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03:04:54  <Belugas> and he wold like to have it compiled on a regular basis?
03:04:56  <Belugas> mmmh...
03:05:20  <Belugas> last time a xIN patch was done this way, people got really confused
03:05:35  <Belugas> i'm not too sure it is a good idea
03:05:44  <Belugas> but i'm not alone in the deciseion
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03:29:22  <Belugas> yeah!!!
03:29:26  <Belugas> it works :D
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03:34:26  * Belugas goes to sleep happy camper :D
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04:46:52  <Rubidium> why is it always so quiet when I look at IRC?
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07:12:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> why is it quiet in IRC at 5:45? hm... leave me a few minutes to think...
07:12:48  <peter1138> Well, that was a weird dream.
07:13:22  <peter1138> I dreamt I had branched 0.6 already.
07:13:40  <peter1138> Then I woke up, and I *had* branched 0.6.
07:13:52  <peter1138> Then I woke up for real...
07:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> how do you know you are actually awake now?
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07:22:09  <Gekz> lol
07:22:18  * Gekz hears peter1138 yell out 'son of a bitch'
07:23:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i gtg
07:23:30  <Gekz> you do that
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07:42:25  <LordAzamath> hello
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09:42:18  <aleex> Gonozal_VIII, ;)
09:42:30  <aleex> Gonozal_VIII, why not monitoring the price?
09:42:32  <Gonozal_VIII> who where?
09:42:34  <Gonozal_VIII> ah^^
09:43:22  <Gonozal_VIII> because you can't influence it anyways?
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10:29:55  <Roujin> ping
10:30:22  <Gonozal_VIII> pong
10:30:33  <Roujin> nice latency there...
10:31:18  <Roujin> sorry. i was bored ><
10:31:26  <Roujin> *yawn*
10:33:59  <Roujin> isn't "show supplied cargo" in your pack gono?
10:34:20  <Gonozal_VIII> patchpack is in... why?
10:35:07  <Roujin> i reckon quite a few people are playing with your pack, so why the heck has nobody ever complained that the supplied cargo line is waaaay off for the newgrf rail station build window? ><
10:35:44  <Gonozal_VIII> don't ask me...
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10:35:57  <Roujin> nobody playing with newstations nowadays, or everyone just too lazy to report a bug? :P
10:36:10  <Wolf01> buon giorno!
10:36:15  <Gonozal_VIII> i would vote for lazyness
10:36:18  <Roujin> hello there wolf
10:36:22  <Gonozal_VIII> john porno
10:37:56  <Roujin> depressing to find a bug in your own code that you know about 251 people have probably spotted it before, but noone reported ><
10:38:32  <hylje> :p
10:38:42  <peter1138> When to software development.
10:39:23  <Gonozal_VIII> when you fixed it, can you please tell me how then because i did a lot of changifications
10:39:37  <peter1138> It’s also fun when someone makes some remark that a bug is “widely known” but has never reported.
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10:40:17  <Roujin> gono: sure, it's just one line that needs changing
10:40:24  <peter1138> Oh, coincidence :D
10:42:16  <Roujin> theres an offset of 90 pixels if there are newgrf stations loaded (because of the selecting stuff), unfortunately I added the offset another time for the "Supplied Cargo: ..." line:P
10:42:50  <Roujin> and seems I only tested without any newgrfs loaded back when I made it x_x
10:43:05  <peter1138> Pah, useless things anyway.
10:43:25  <Roujin> what, offsets? newgrfs? stations?
10:49:46  <Gonozal_VIII> everything spanish and french and italian and no english or at least german :-/
10:57:43  <Roujin> gonozal: apart from that little fix, i'm doing some cleanup/remove unneeded stuff atm... if you want to update it, i reckon it's easier to throw out the old one and include the new one once i've posted it in the forum..
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10:58:15  <Gonozal_VIII> cleanup and removing unneeded stuff are the changifications i did...
10:58:58  <Gonozal_VIII> directly inside the patch file
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11:02:59  <Roujin> well i now also removed the changes done to initial window size - they're actually not needed anymore because it's resized anyways to the exactly fitting size (since resizing was introduced in trunk)
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11:05:18  <Roujin> just compiling now to see if it really works like it's supposed to...
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11:16:47  * LordAzamath greets
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11:32:02  <LordAzamath> how does one make an industry which behaves as a station with newgrfs.. Like the oil rig..
11:33:04  <Roujin> maybe it's only possible for industries on water for now?
11:33:41  <LordAzamath> hmm
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11:34:04  <LordAzamath> I was having a thought about underground stations...
11:34:05  <LordAzamath> :P
11:34:21  <Roujin> george should know something about that.. he's done fishing grounds in ecs...
11:34:30  <Roujin> heh, underground stations
11:34:42  <Roujin> funny guy you are :P
11:34:49  <LordAzamath> I can do it just eyecandy with normal grfs too
11:35:14  <LordAzamath> but then the houses on top of the stations won't produce anything
11:36:04  <Roujin> I'd like to see a nice newgrf for that.. but not with normal houses but some sort of station bulding on top
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11:43:10  <LordAzamath> Roujin,
11:43:27  <LordAzamath> closed top and some buildings on it
11:48:11  <Roujin> yes, this with closed top and some sort of station building would be very nice
11:48:17  <Roujin> imo
11:48:35  <Roujin> is what you posted an existing newgrf or a mockup?
11:48:59  <LordAzamath> canadian stations set
11:49:18  <Gonozal_VIII> what would be the point of an underground station if it has a station building on top?
11:49:33  <LordAzamath> but the idea of an industry came when I thought that the houses on it should generate pax too..
11:49:35  <LordAzamath> :P
11:51:45  <peter1138> Feh, you just need *real* underground stuff :o
11:52:32  <LordAzamath> peter1138, I didn't want to upset you devs again with the "An awesome new idea!!!!! Underground stations" thingie :P
11:53:06  <LordAzamath> and then get pointed to numerous suggestion threads
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11:53:12  <Gekz> peter1138: is creating an underground layer even possible?
11:53:43  <Gonozal_VIII> why should it be impossible?
11:53:56  <LordAzamath> well... you need another ui for that :P
11:54:41  <Gonozal_VIII> transparency switch for the top layer :-)
11:54:59  <LordAzamath> and what will it show on the bottom layer?
11:55:04  <LordAzamath> needs sprites
11:55:07  <LordAzamath> or void
11:55:18  <Gonozal_VIII> bare land sprites
11:55:46  <Gonozal_VIII> void is replaced with water for me^^
11:55:46  <LordAzamath> how would you deal with slopes iunderground?
11:55:53  <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII, me too :P
11:56:22  <Gonozal_VIII> no slopes underground..
11:56:58  <LordAzamath> but you have to have height differences nonetheless...
11:57:29  <Gonozal_VIII> cut through the landscape layer by layer...
11:57:46  <LordAzamath> now how many is the max height ?
11:58:01  <Gonozal_VIII> you can choose which layer to view with ctrl - and ctrl + :-)
11:58:07  <LordAzamath> ok..
11:58:09  <LordAzamath> make a patch
11:58:11  <Gonozal_VIII> 15 is max height
11:58:18  <LordAzamath> ^^
11:59:25  <Roujin> current design of map array doesn't allow underground stuff
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12:00:03  <LordAzamath> new map array :O !!
12:00:04  <Gonozal_VIII> if you don't care about size, you could have 16 layers of the current array...
12:00:36  <Roujin> forget thinking about the ui or cosmetical stuff as long as there's no way to store the necessary information somewhere ;)
12:00:40  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm i guess it could be compressed a lot if most of it is empty
12:00:42  <peter1138> And at 256x256, that's the same 'size' as a 1024x1024 map...
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12:03:06  <LordAzamath> which leads to my current question about making your life easier and having a newgrf :P
12:03:40  <LordAzamath> :O
12:12:12  <LordAzamath> but I'll deal with it later
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12:15:39  <yorick> <yorick> dih: I've been tinking about the moving-clients patch, what about sending a command to the client first, and only change the value on the server if a confirmation is recieved? <-- why is that a bad idea?
12:17:27  <yorick> "move client company" _> PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ(company)  _> PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_CONF _> PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO to all clients (all packets have normal priority)
12:20:34  <dih> and what if i patch my client to never send a confirm?
12:21:07  <dih> important rule: dont trust clients :-)
12:21:12  <yorick> I know
12:21:25  <yorick> if move doesn't work, server admins can always kick people
12:21:26  <dih> then a confirmation packet is the wrong approach
12:21:44  <dih> the whole point of move is so that people dont _have_ to be kicked
12:21:55  <yorick> if a client doesn't agree with a move the way it is now, it will kick it on the next docommand too
12:22:38  <dih> nope
12:22:42  <dih> clients cannot disagree
12:22:52  <dih> they can only not support it
12:23:08  <dih> which is not the same
12:23:24  <yorick> if I patch my client to ignore the PACKET_SERVER_MOVE, wouldn't that do the same?
12:23:35  <yorick> and PACKET_SERVER_CLIENT_INFO
12:23:53  <dih> nope
12:24:00  <dih> you would send invalid data to the server
12:24:02  <dih> and get kicked
12:24:18  <dih> but not because you ignored the move
12:24:34  <dih> only because you sent wrong details in your packets
12:24:54  <yorick> ignoring the move is the first cause of kicking
12:25:20  <dih> nope
12:25:30  <dih> you can stay connected as long as you dont do anything
12:25:39  <yorick> ...
12:26:00  * LordAzamath heads to ttdpatch wiki
12:26:57  <yorick> I still think the correct way to do it is from the client, because clients send the commands, and the server only recieves them from the client. You could also temporarily accept both players to execute commands to, so you could detect when the client has executed the move.
12:27:36  <yorick> Or you could make the confirmation time out, so the server would execute the move anyway after a number of seconds
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12:50:25  <yorick> what happens if a client recieves a command it doesn't know
12:51:13  <yorick> packet*
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12:55:43  <Ammller> Heya, someone around who does translate openttd in his language?
12:55:58  <yorick> try on openttd.wt2
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13:00:18  <yorick> hmm...the join command format is pretty strange: ip#company:port
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13:02:25  <Wolf01> indeed, it should be ip:port#address,telephone'company
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13:09:54  <dih> did you try writing it any other way?
13:10:25  <yorick> writing what?
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13:16:12  <dih> ip:port#company
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13:30:28  <jez> Hmm
13:30:41  <jez> Are there any plans to integrate the copy/paste track feature into the main OpenTTD?
13:30:41  <yorick> hmm?
13:30:45  <yorick> no
13:30:50  <jez> i'm finding myself wanting it a lot though :-)
13:30:58  <jez> having to manually build cloverleafs is annoying
13:31:01  <yorick> some see it as a cheat
13:31:04  <jez> heh
13:31:07  <yorick> cloverleafs are bad!
13:31:10  <jez> ?
13:31:26  <Gonozal_VIII> yep, very bad
13:32:09  <jez> seem like a pretty efficient way of connecting my network together
13:32:15  <yorick> they arent
13:32:20  <yorick> they jam easily
13:32:50  <Gonozal_VIII>
13:33:11  <jez> slight problem with that is it takes up a mile of space
13:33:19  <jez> cloverleafs are nice and compact
13:33:29  <Gonozal_VIII> and slow...
13:33:36  <yorick> and unifficient
13:33:57  <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: you know the code well now. :-)
13:34:04  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, uniffecoint
13:34:13  <yorick> unefficient*
13:34:23  <Ammller> how hard would it be to change gui so it would be possible to build rivers in playmode
13:34:25  <Gonozal_VIII> inefficient ;-)
13:34:31  <yorick> not very
13:34:32  <Ammller> unit the framework is done?
13:34:56  <yorick> removing check and adding button, I think
13:35:04  <Ammller> rivers is quite useless for mp mode at the moment
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13:35:14  <fjb> Hello
13:35:20  <jez> it's silly to see copy/paste as a cheat.  any competent AI is going to be able to construct these things very quickly
13:35:26  <jez> humans should have the same ability
13:35:41  <fjb> Ai is cheating.
13:35:47  <yorick> AI's have delays too
13:35:50  <Ammller> jez: who said, is cheating?
13:35:56  <Gonozal_VIII>
13:35:57  <fjb> But ai is braindead.
13:35:58  <jez> Ammller: some people, apparently
13:36:26  * yorick raises hand
13:36:42  <Gonozal_VIII> nah, copy paste is not cheating
13:36:43  <yorick> fjb appears to be one of them
13:36:49  <fjb> We should allow humans to cheat in the same way as the ai does if the human player proofs that he is as braindead as the ai is.
13:36:56  <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: yes, I mean that, but unit that will be done, we need something to have rivers
13:37:04  <jez> fjb: i said a competent AI, something implemented into the noAI
13:37:07  <yorick> fjb: AI's can terraform for free
13:37:39  <fjb> yorick: Every player as braindead as the ai is should be allowed to terraform for free.
13:37:45  <yorick> :D
13:37:56  <yorick> terraforming for free is a bad idea
13:38:15  <yorick> in MP, especially
13:38:25  * yorick imagines flooding for free
13:38:29  <fjb> But that players would be too braindead to breath. So that case is hypothetical.
13:39:07  <jez> if you could terraform for free i'd removal all land
13:39:08  <jez> :-)
13:40:01  <fjb> Me imagines eight players each using mass copied stations all over the map. The one with the faster connection wins.
13:40:24  <Gonozal_VIII> it doesn't work that way
13:40:40  <yorick> shouldn't client_lang be updated with SERVER_PACKET_CLIENT_INFO?
13:40:56  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: How does it work?
13:41:11  <Gonozal_VIII> paste speed is a server setting and the same for every client
13:41:29  <yorick> client_lang is not sent to the clients right now, is it?
13:41:35  <fjb> You can not limit paste speed without side effects on other players.
13:41:35  <Gonozal_VIII> it's not instant pasting as in single player
13:41:44  <Gonozal_VIII> you can
13:42:19  <yorick> (lets see how flags would suit the client list :))
13:42:43  <fjb> How? Imagine a bottleneck in the network that suddenly comes free. IP packets jam at the the bottleneck and then reach the server all at the same tuime.
13:42:47  <fjb> time
13:43:10  <Gonozal_VIII> just try it in a mp game
13:43:13  <dih> there is a server side patch for copy&pate
13:43:40  <yorick> but, wouldn't the patch value sent in the savegame get invalid chunk size on unpatched clients?
13:43:49  <fjb> That can not reliably work when packets are ariving out of order or in case of network jams.
13:44:30  <yorick> TCP makes sure that packets will arrive in order
13:44:32  <dih> packets dont arrive out of order
13:45:02  <fjb> TCP caches packets until they are in order and then gives them to the upper layer all at once.
13:45:12  <jez> copy/paste should involve functionality to tell the server to build all the pieces of the paste at once
13:45:13  <jez> not in order
13:45:21  <yorick> then you need a patched server
13:45:30  <dih> nono
13:45:36  <jez> well just a server running an appropriate version of openTTD (that has paste functionality)
13:45:40  <dih> pasting is done tile by tile
13:45:45  <jez> currently it is
13:45:49  <jez> but it doesnt need to be
13:45:50  <yorick> but that is not the way how copy&paste works (dih said that)
13:45:53  <fjb> yorick: That is a feature of the network stack, not a feature of any user space program.
13:46:35  <yorick> copy&paste works by doing DoCommandP's for each tile
13:46:42  <dih> and the reason for the limit is to not block other players docommands
13:46:58  <jez> i think we've had quite a long period of MP games with no copy/paste functionality and spaghetti networks everywhere.  now it would be nice to have some MP games with well-constructed networks, and genuine competition between players, ie. who can build the most efficient network :-)
13:47:20  <dih> pasting junctions is silly
13:47:20  <jez> there could be a server switch to enable/disable copy paste anyway
13:47:26  <jez> silly?
13:47:27  <dih> how often do you need the same junction?
13:47:32  <jez> very regularly?
13:47:37  <fjb> On flat land...
13:47:42  <dih> then you dont build well :-D
13:47:43  <yorick> nope, custom junctions everywhere!
13:48:04  <Gonozal_VIII> [14:47:19] <jez> there could be a server switch to enable/disable copy paste anyway <-- there is
13:48:07  <jez> copy/pasting ensures you dont screw up a signal or something :-)
13:48:19  <jez> Gonozal_VIII: how can there be, copy/paste isnt build into the client
13:48:27  <jez> unless you're talking about miniIN servers
13:48:30  <dih> then you build even worse if you have the tendency to screw up
13:48:50  <jez> dih: shrug, i get bored with building the same stuff
13:48:55  <Gonozal_VIII> copy paste speed on the server set to 255 is off
13:48:57  <fjb> The server side can not work without side effects on ordinary users, as I explained above.
13:48:57  <jez> as the brain should :-)
13:49:19  <jez> please explain how you can copy/paste when the client doesnt have it built in
13:49:44  <Gonozal_VIII> it's composed of normal game actions
13:49:48  *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
13:50:23  <fjb> Gonozal_VIII: When it is composed of normal game actions, how does a copy paste detection work?
13:50:33  <dih> jez: if you always build the same stuff - how boring must it get?
13:50:50  <jez> in terms of joining junctions, i build the same stuff
13:50:54  <jez> in terms of the network, obviously not
13:51:03  <jez> but yes after a while i guess TTD gets boring, but it is a long while :-)
13:51:18  <jez> and you come back to it again and again, even if you are copy/pasting junctions
13:51:25  <jez> it's a whole lot more boring rebuilding the same track
13:51:26  <dih> how about never building a junction twice?
13:51:37  <dih> using hilly landscapes
13:51:41  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
13:51:41  <jez> how about, there is 1 or 2 junction designs that are just better and you have to build them twice?
13:51:44  <dih> and having a bit more of a challenge
13:51:49  <jez> because i want an efficient network?
13:52:00  <jez> and dont want to waste building time when i could be adding to the network
13:52:09  <dih> check out openttdcoop's junctionary :-)
13:52:13  <Gonozal_VIII> besides copy&paste is not only for building the same junctions over and over again
13:52:15  <jez> my challenge is connecting the whole map up, not spaghetti tracks
13:52:52  <dih> challenge is building that all, and not on flat terrains and not terraforming anything
13:52:56  <Gonozal_VIII> you could for example copy and save the shape of the terrain and fix it if somebody (like the ai) messed it up
13:53:17  <jez> not sure id bother with that :-)
13:53:20  *** NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
13:53:31  <jez> however the other thing very useful to copy/paste would be stations
13:53:34  <dih> you play with the ai? ^^
13:53:49  <jez> i have great fun using it in the miniIN, i just wish it were in the main client
13:53:54  <Gonozal_VIII> i tried a few times^^
13:54:04  <jez> i'd like the noAI and copy/paste in the main client, then i'd pretty much want no other features
13:54:08  <dih> how boring must that be
13:54:15  <dih> all stations looking the same :-(
13:54:22  <jez> if you dont want copy/paste, dont use it anyway.  why do you have a problem with it
13:54:27  <jez> people who want to use it can do
13:54:29  <dih> jez: you have no creativity :-)
13:54:51  <jez> yes i do, i've just been using it too much for years in openTTD :-)
13:54:58  <dih> i know people who use it for things thatin 70% of the cases look the same
13:55:04  <jez> tired of horrid looking networks, i want a game where i have one really well-designed network
13:55:18  <Gonozal_VIII> you could also paste some basic track layout to get things running faster and then optimise that...
13:55:29  <Ammller> jez, look at copy&paste thead, there are "main" clients compiled with c&p
13:55:37  <dih> if you track layout is 64^2
13:55:42  <jez> Ammller: not really, not downloadable on the openttd site
13:55:45  <Ammller> but never join #openttdcoop with it
13:55:47  <jez> it should be in the trunk imho :-)
13:56:00  <dih> juck
13:56:01  <jez> with a server switch to turn it off
13:56:07  <Gonozal_VIII> 256^2
13:56:11  <Ammller> jetz, it has already
13:56:13  <jez> then the server admin can decide on whether to allow c&p[
13:56:23  <jez> no, it hasnt, it's not in the main openttd client
13:56:25  <jez> on
13:56:27  <fjb> There is no possible server side switch which doesn't affect other players.
13:56:28  <dih> the server admin can controll the speed of pasting
13:56:30  <Ammller> you can adjust the speed for building with c&p
13:56:39  <dih> fjb: there is
13:57:25  <dih> funny thing is
13:57:27  <fjb> How does that switch differntiate betwenn pasting and the actions of a usual player arriving at the server all at the same time?
13:57:36  <dih> if i set the paste speed to 200
13:57:45  <dih> then you paste one docommand every 200 ticks :-)
13:57:50  <dih> and you cannot cancle the action :-P
13:57:54  <LordAzamath> :O
13:57:57  <dih> until you disconnect :-D
13:58:17  <LordAzamath> that makes it quite slow, doesn't it?
13:58:21  <dih> fjb: it does not work that way
13:58:24  <jez> i dont understand, if there is a way to 'disable' copy/pasting on the server, what is the problem with having it in the main client?
13:58:35  <fjb> dih: How is it working?
13:58:37  <jez> those who want to use it can use it, it's an extra feature
13:58:45  <dih> fjb: can you keep a secret?
13:58:54  <fjb> dih: Yes. :-)
13:58:58  <dih> so can i
13:59:00  <LordAzamath> jez> that's why they are patches.. If you want to use them, compile them :)
13:59:09  <dih> nice one LA
13:59:11  <dih> :)
13:59:21  <LordAzamath> :)
13:59:22  <jez> LordAzamath: i mean why isnt it in the default set of patches?
13:59:45  <dih> why does everybody what their fav patch in trunk?
14:00:01  <jez> name another fav patch that is so unproblematic to implement
14:00:14  <dih> move clients :-D
14:00:17  <LordAzamath> :D
14:00:21  <jez> huh?
14:00:29  * LordAzamath wants move clients into trunk....
14:00:32  <LordAzamath> :P
14:00:33  <dih> server talks mouve patch
14:00:49  <dih> now that is a nice thing
14:00:54  <dih> useful on openttdcoop
14:01:03  <dih> then all chat from irc has a different color
14:01:19  <jez> hmm
14:01:20  <dih> and you can distinguish between spec chat, irc chat and company chat
14:01:23  <jez> does the latest miniIN have noAI?:
14:01:36  <LordAzamath> miniIN is WAAY old
14:01:44  <jez> hmm
14:01:48  <LordAzamath> and NoAI is only a framework
14:02:11  <LordAzamath> latest miniIN came out about a year ago... I had not even joined then :P
14:02:15  <dih> noai has noai
14:02:18  <dih> nnothing else does
14:02:18  <jez> i just think copy/paste is a major feature that makes a lot of sense, and is worthy of the trunk :-)
14:02:19  <LordAzamath> true
14:02:27  <jez> as is noAI
14:02:31  <LordAzamath> jez, good that you think so
14:02:33  <jez> (once it has some sensible AIs made)
14:02:37  <dih> jez: play chrisIN
14:02:56  <dih> btw:
14:03:00  <LordAzamath> and noAI can only cope with road vehicles atm..
14:03:14  <dih>
14:03:14  <LordAzamath> server tlaks mauve??
14:03:18  <LordAzamath> typos ftw
14:03:22  <jez> lord: road, airplane, and boats actually
14:03:47  <LordAzamath> wadeva
14:04:25  <dih> and by the way
14:04:38  <dih> the reload cfg patch was also an easy one
14:04:45  <dih> but that is server only :-P
14:06:44  <jez> why chrisIN
14:06:46  <dih> yes - tb has been doing some work on noai
14:06:49  <jez> it doesnt seem to have noAI or copy/paste
14:06:51  <dih> chrisin has c&p
14:07:00  <jez> ah
14:07:03  <dih> at least i thought it did
14:07:09  <jez> PDF doesnt say so
14:07:10  <dih> and no - it will not have noai
14:07:16  <dih> then it does not
14:07:22  <dih> then ask for inclusion
14:07:41  <jez> no actually it was added later
14:07:48  <jez> why wont it have noAI?
14:07:58  <LordAzamath> why should it have noAI?
14:08:00  <dih> because noai aint ready
14:08:06  <jez> maybe he should branch it
14:08:08  <jez> have a noai build
14:08:25  <jez> one day there will be good AIs :-)
14:08:29  <jez> you can sit and watch them fight
14:09:22  <LordAzamath> jez, maybe he should, but that's all him to decide.. They have real life too and sometimes not enough time to even update things (the patch collectors :P)
14:09:40  <LordAzamath> btw and you can get noAI binaries
14:09:47  <jez> does chrisAI have savegame compat with openttd 0.6.0-beta4?
14:09:57  <jez> i've compiled noAI myself
14:10:03  <jez> just be nice to have a ready-compiled one
14:10:14  <LordAzamath> well.. there is one :P
14:10:20  <LordAzamath> at the link I sent you
14:10:21  <jez> but with c/p and stuff
14:10:30  <LordAzamath> arghhh
14:10:48  <LordAzamath> and who should compile and update it?
14:11:08  <LordAzamath> you can apply multiple patches yourself too
14:11:19  <dih> jeez... your a pain ^^
14:11:30  * LordAzamath agrees with dih
14:12:09  <dih> like a little kid wanting to be fed by mummy all the time
14:12:35  <LordAzamath> Belugas, where was the hungry birds picture?
14:12:51  <LordAzamath> Somewhere in your namespace in
14:12:52  <dih> LOLOLOLOL
14:13:01  <dih> gimmemore.jpg
14:13:04  <LordAzamath> yes
14:13:58  *** Draakon [] has joined #openttd
14:14:04  <Draakon> hi
14:14:08  <LordAzamath> helllo
14:15:48  <dih> is that 3rd l a typo?
14:16:22  <Draakon> ?
14:16:47  <LordAzamath> dih: no
14:16:56  <dih> hehe
14:17:01  * LordAzamath never typos
14:17:05  <LordAzamath> :
14:17:06  <LordAzamath> P
14:17:07  <dih> i.e. hell lo
14:17:12  <dih> lo as in (hel)lo
14:17:20  <Draakon> lol
14:17:22  <Draakon> i get it
14:17:23  <LordAzamath> hell no
14:17:25  <dih> why not hell!lo
14:17:28  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:17:59  <Draakon> LordAzamath; you just had extra l in your hello, so a typo
14:18:02  <LordAzamath> dih, it's just I like to write helllo :P
14:18:06  <LordAzamath> aka hello
14:18:20  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
14:18:21  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
14:18:21  <dih> oh
14:18:29  <dih> i though you were refering to hell :-D
14:18:30  *** Ridayah [~ridayah@] has joined #openttd
14:18:37  <LordAzamath> :O gl[tab] joined :O
14:18:57  <Draakon> dih: why did you think that?
14:19:18  <dih> because of the third l
14:19:53  <jez> well, the trunk of openTTD is being updated regularly...
14:19:58  <Draakon> k
14:20:08  <jez> how is it decided how it will be updated?  if putting new patches in the trunk is not good, why does it get updated at all?
14:20:15  <LordAzamath> agh
14:20:20  <Draakon> bugfixes
14:20:23  <Draakon> duh
14:20:30  <glx> many of them :)
14:20:32  <jez> ive not encountered any bugs for ages
14:20:52  <LordAzamath> well that doesn't mean they don't exist
14:21:26  <Draakon> jez: a similar question to you then: why do you go to school if the stuff you learn there is not good?
14:21:44  <glx> I can crash any beta3 and beta4 servers
14:21:49  <jez> erm, that's a totally unsimilar question
14:21:53  <jez> not even analogous
14:21:54  <LordAzamath> glx, but beta5?
14:22:15  <glx> no killer bug for beta5 AFAIK
14:22:18  <LordAzamath> probably with patched client, you can :P
14:22:43  <LordAzamath> glx, where can I get todays changelog?
14:22:50  <glx> yes that should be possible, but beta3 and beta4 are with unpatched clients
14:23:09  <glx> on nightlies page
14:23:12  <Draakon> no
14:23:20  <Draakon>
14:23:33  <jez> i have another question; is there a patch that changes the rating of your services?  i think that's kind of a bug in the main trunk.  you can only only usually get your rating up to about 75%, no matter what
14:23:35  <LordAzamath> ty draakon
14:23:45  <jez> this doesnt allow you to complete properly with competitors, you should be able to get up to 100%
14:23:51  <LordAzamath> jez, it's not a bug
14:23:53  <Draakon> jez: its not a bug and no, there isnt
14:23:58  <jez> not a bug?
14:24:00  <Draakon> yes
14:24:05  <LordAzamath> it means you are not servicing it well enough
14:24:06  <glx> with a statue you can get 100%
14:24:15  <LordAzamath> w/o statue you cant
14:24:22  <Draakon> yes
14:24:23  <jez> lol a statue?
14:24:25  <LordAzamath> and your vehicles have to be new
14:24:28  <jez> that... doesnt make sense
14:24:33  <Draakon> it does
14:24:36  <LordAzamath> yes it does
14:24:38  <glx> and always waiting
14:24:47  <glx> and fast
14:24:48  <jez> so like bribing the local authority with a statue
14:24:53  <LordAzamath> no
14:24:55  <jez> i thought the game was based on service quality
14:25:00  <Draakon> it is
14:25:14  <jez> a statue has nothing to do with that
14:25:21  <Draakon> it does
14:25:24  <jez> what?
14:25:34  <LordAzamath> a statue raises your.. reputation
14:26:03  <Draakon> statues can make a lot of things then just sitting in the empty cold street
14:26:29  <LordAzamath> and you can also make advertizing campaigns..
14:26:40  <Draakon>
14:26:43  <Draakon> read this
14:26:52  <Draakon> and you should get your answers
14:27:03  <LordAzamath> nobody has said that getting ALL productios as a monopoly should be easy
14:28:01  <Draakon> true even in the real life
14:28:28  <jez> perhaps it should be possible, if you are supreme, to prevent the opposition getting anything.  perhaps all the ratings combined should have to add up to 100% (ie. they represent the % of the goods you get), so it's possible to push the competitors into loss.  at the moment, competitors can usually get some profit even with a measly 50% rating
14:28:40  <jez> which they get even with occasional pickups
14:28:48  <Draakon> erm
14:28:51  <jez> if you have a train waiting permenantly, and work hard to give excellent service, they should get nothin
14:28:51  <jez> g
14:28:53  <Draakon> this would be unrealistic
14:28:54  <jez> or very little
14:29:02  *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
14:29:18  * Yorick wonders how the client list would look with some nice and shiny flags in it
14:29:26  <jez> not really; competition frequently puts competitors out of business. it sucks if you cant do that, that's the point of competition :-)
14:29:35  <Draakon> jez: why dont you like the current raiting mecanism
14:29:42  <jez> the mechanism is good
14:29:51  <Draakon> so why do you complain?
14:29:55  <jez> the problem is how that affects the amount of cargo you get
14:30:05  <dih> jez is just of that complaining nature
14:30:19  <jez> it should be possible i think to make a competitor that is performing OK take a loss
14:30:56  * LordAzamath again agrees with dih
14:30:56  <fjb> jez: You can already put oponents out of business with the current game.
14:31:11  <jez> only if they're braindead ai opponents :-)
14:31:18  <jez> if they're decent human opponents you pretty much cant
14:31:27  <jez> they setup a station and do OK, they will not make a loss
14:31:30  <jez> even if your service is perfect
14:31:34  <fjb> jez: I did with human opponents.
14:31:51  <LordAzamath> well.. if they are decent opponents, why should you want to not play with them?
14:31:54  <jez> how?  did you stop them getting ANY product?
14:32:00  <LordAzamath> it is possible
14:32:04  <fjb> When my service is perfect they get that little that they are making a huge loss.
14:32:25  <jez> ultimately im thinking of having proper competition with a good computer opponent, hence noAI and the ability to prevent the competitor getting products
14:32:31  <fjb> No, they still got some products, but not enough to get profit.
14:32:33  <LordAzamath> and especially when you have two stations at one place of which ratings are both better than the other guys
14:32:41  * dih ignore jez
14:32:50  * jez is happy
14:32:54  * dih enjoys the peace
14:33:05  <jez> why are you in a chatroom if you want peace, idiot?
14:33:10  <jez> go outside
14:33:37  <dih> what a wonderful day this could be :-P
14:33:40  <jez> i love people who come on IRC and say 'shut up, i want to idle in here'
14:33:45  <LordAzamath> jez, why should you want a newAI when you only want to make them bankrupt...
14:33:46  <Yorick> why are you in a chatroom if you want a discussion, idiot?
14:33:50  <Yorick> go to forums
14:33:55  <jez> LordAzamath: i want one i can compete with :-)
14:34:07  * Yorick ignore jez
14:34:09  <LordAzamath> then learn squirrel and write on
14:34:10  <jez> Yorick: a chatroom is for discussion :-)
14:34:14  * LordAzamath ignore jez
14:34:22  * Yorick enjoys the peace
14:34:32  * LordAzamath enjoys the peace
14:34:47  <Draakon> ok what i have missed?
14:34:49  <Draakon> :OP
14:34:51  <Draakon> :P
14:34:57  <dih> the peace :-D
14:34:58  <Yorick> you should ignore jez too
14:35:26  <LordAzamath> hmm.. I didn't know that /me ignore jez really gets him ignored :P..
14:35:35  <LordAzamath> or he just hasn't written
14:35:42  <Draakon> jez: the problem is how that affects the amount of cargo you get<---- would you give some gold for transportation if there is no security on the train and it can break anytime?
14:36:03  <jez> how what affects it?
14:36:08  <LordAzamath> :OOOOO
14:36:17  <Yorick> :s
14:36:19  <Draakon> raitings dude, raitings!
14:36:32  <dih> oh bother
14:36:33  <Draakon> more raitings=more people trust you
14:36:44  <Draakon> *sigh*
14:36:59  <jez> i dont understand your point about security on the train :-)
14:37:05  <dih> there
14:37:09  <LordAzamath> here?
14:37:22  <dih> Hostmask                  PRIV NOTI CHAN CTCP DCC  INVI UNIG
14:37:23  <dih> [15:37]    jez!noisier@* YES  YES  YES  YES  YES  YES  NO
14:37:24  <dih> ^^
14:37:43  <Yorick> 1) jez (jez!*@*) Network: All Networks Channels: "" Options: IGNORINGCHANNELLIST
14:37:48  <Yorick> :)
14:37:48  <Draakon> jez: you want your gold stolen on that train? ok i will steal it, and no-one can stop me
14:38:02  <Yorick> Draakon: /ignore +jez please
14:38:14  <LordAzamath> :)
14:38:19  <LordAzamath> [16:38] Ignoring "jez"
14:38:20  <Draakon> good idea, hes "noob" anyway
14:38:29  <jez> Draakon: um, there isnt a mechanism for transporting your gold on the trains
14:38:32  <jez> you just get it immediately
14:38:33  <Yorick> :)
14:38:41  <jez> oh you're talking about the arid climate gold mines?
14:38:47  <LordAzamath> and if we really want to know what he said..
14:38:49  <Yorick> finally, we could have a nice discussion :)
14:38:50  <SpComb> Logs:
14:38:50  <LordAzamath> !logs
14:39:03  <Ammller> well, if you don't like companies to build rivers, you shouldn't allow them to build trees, too.
14:39:22  <dih> Yorick: flaming aint nice :-)
14:39:23  <Draakon> erm
14:39:34  <Draakon> ammller: they can do both
14:39:34  <dih> draakon is old enough to know if he wants to igrnoe or not :P
14:39:46  <Draakon> ignore*
14:39:51  <LordAzamath> draakon is younger than me..
14:39:56  <dih> yes :-P
14:39:59  <Ammller> Draakon: how do you bild rivers as a company?
14:40:02  <dih> LA - i could be your father
14:40:02  <Draakon> i might be:
14:40:08  <dih> Ammler could be mine
14:40:12  <jez> maybe you could have a rating % and then, in brackets, a value showing what % of cargo your station gets?
14:40:14  <dih> and Belugas could be Ammlers
14:40:16  <LordAzamath> dih, and you are?
14:40:17  <jez> it would be useful
14:40:18  <Draakon> ammller: not in OpenTTD but in real life
14:40:21  <dih> 25
14:40:28  <dih> we were all premature :-D
14:40:28  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
14:40:36  <LordAzamath> 10year old father :O
14:40:48  <LordAzamath> whoa
14:40:49  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
14:40:56  <LordAzamath> you.. started early..
14:41:19  <SpComb> Logs:
14:41:19  <Draakon> !logs
14:41:46  <jez> and, you should be able to get your competitors' percentage down to zero if they don't provide an excellent service
14:41:57  <Draakon> lol
14:41:59  <jez> so they'd show something like coal 56% (0%)
14:42:06  <Draakon> i think jez is talking to himself
14:42:20  <dih> he talking?
14:42:21  <jez> you 'think'?
14:42:40  <LordAzamath> 16:41:19 < Draakon> !logs
14:42:40  <LordAzamath> 16:41:46 < jez> and, you should be able to get your competitors' percentage down to zero if they don't provide an excellent service
14:42:40  <LordAzamath> 16:41:57 < Draakon> lol
14:42:40  <LordAzamath> 16:41:59 < jez> so they'd show something like coal 56% (0%)
14:42:41  <LordAzamath> 16:42:06 < Draakon> i think jez is talking to himself
14:42:41  <LordAzamath> 16:42:20 < dih> he talking?
14:42:42  <LordAzamath> 16:42:21 < jez> you 'think'?
14:42:45  <LordAzamath> from logs
14:42:48  <jez> lol
14:42:48  <Draakon> erm
14:42:51  <LordAzamath> [16:41] <Draakon> !logs
14:42:51  <LordAzamath> [16:41] <SpComb> Logs:
14:42:51  <LordAzamath> [16:41] <Draakon> lol
14:42:51  <LordAzamath> [16:41] <Draakon> i think jez is talking to himself
14:42:52  <LordAzamath> [16:42] <dih> he talking?
14:42:55  <jez> looks like im talking to you through logs now!
14:42:57  <LordAzamath> from IRC client :P
14:43:00  <jez> thanks for the relay
14:43:11  <Ammller> LordAzamath: use :P
14:43:14  <jez> please keep relaying
14:43:21  <dih> hehe
14:43:23  <Gekz> lol
14:43:23  <LordAzamath> Ammller, aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
14:43:35  <Draakon> LordAzamath: that proves nothing
14:43:40  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has left #openttd [aaaaaaaa]
14:43:45  <Ammller> :)
14:43:47  <Draakon> lol
14:43:51  *** Ammller [~Ammler@] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!]
14:43:57  <Yorick> pfff...he should always use paste, for code
14:44:10  <Draakon> beware! spammer lurks there
14:44:20  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has joined #openttd
14:44:34  <Yorick> you should always use for code ;)
14:44:37  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has joined #openttd
14:44:40  <LordAzamath> I saw it
14:44:48  <LordAzamath> but it wasn't code
14:44:54  <Draakon> spammers should burn in hell
14:44:56  <Yorick> yes it was
14:45:05  <LordAzamath> it's a quote
14:45:26  <LordAzamath> even tt-forums have different templates for code and quotes
14:45:32  <LordAzamath> (phpbb thing)
14:46:04  <jez> yeah, but they talk about stuff on tt-forums
14:46:07  <Yorick> yes, it was quoted code :)
14:46:08  <jez> not like here, you just idle here
14:46:15  <LordAzamath> me is no spammer :'(
14:46:37  <LordAzamath> so you are coding intesivly now?
14:46:42  * Yorick is
14:46:45  <LordAzamath> :o
14:46:47  <Draakon> no i dint talk you were a spammer
14:46:49  <LordAzamath> at irc?
14:46:55  <Yorick> I'm getting flags to the client list :)
14:47:04  * dih ignores all but self :-P
14:47:08  <Draakon> but the guy who posts stupid things on is
14:47:20  <Yorick> spammerbot alert!
14:47:32  <dih> or simply join #worldofdih
14:47:35  * Yorick thinks dih will have fun times
14:47:43  <LordAzamath> has been spammed for over a week now...
14:47:43  <dih> lol
14:47:56  <Yorick> TB wished the spammers good luck a week ago
14:47:59  <Draakon> the guy is dead meat if we know who is :P
14:48:05  <Yorick> nothing they're gonna do about it
14:48:07  <LordAzamath> dih, what happened with #dihedrals.bitches ?
14:48:11  <Draakon> who he is*
14:48:25  <LordAzamath> Yorick, nothing can be done
14:48:27  <dih> i still have the logs if that is what you mean
14:48:29  <LordAzamath> I asked already
14:48:37  <Draakon> that place is for hes bitches but worldofdih is hes world?
14:48:37  <LordAzamath> nooo
14:48:50  <LordAzamath> isn't bitches all his world?
14:48:50  <Yorick> we always have #? :0
14:48:50  <Draakon> k brb
14:48:55  <Yorick> :)*
14:51:31  <Yorick> const NetworkClientInfo *ci; (network_server.cpp:849) <-- why is it a const?
14:54:30  <jez> i think LordAzamath is a spammer
14:55:32  <Draakon> k im back
14:56:08  <Draakon> LordAzamath: isn't bitches all his world?<---- whos world?
14:56:21  <dih> does anybody here play CS:S?
14:56:33  <jez> dih: fuck off, this isnt a CS channel
14:56:39  <jez> we sit here and talk about NOTHING
14:56:41  <Draakon> ewwww
14:56:44  <Rubidium> Yorick: because nothing writes to that struct
14:56:45  <Draakon> that sucks
14:57:14  <dih>
14:57:40  <Draakon> dih: i play something new instead
14:57:55  <dih> that is a hide and seek mod
14:58:08  <dih> one team is transformed into objects that are commonly found on the map
14:58:13  <dih> then they hide
14:58:15  <Draakon> no i dint mean the mod, i mean the general gaming
14:58:16  <dih> ther others seek :-D
14:58:25  <dih> css is nice
14:58:36  <Draakon> SOF 2 is better
14:58:40  <dih> i refuse to pay 50 euros for a game
14:58:56  <dih> and i dont run to mummy so that she buys me a game either :-P
14:58:56  <LordAzamath> dih.. CounterStrike:Source?
14:59:00  <dih> yes
14:59:13  <Draakon> dih: that game is cheap
14:59:21  *** Snurglewozzle [] has joined #openttd
15:00:03  <Snurglewozzle> dih: fuck off, this isnt a CS channel
15:00:07  <Snurglewozzle> ih: fuck off, this isnt a CS channel
15:00:12  <Yorick> p->Send_uint8 (NETLANG_ANY);          // Language <-- OMG
15:00:17  <Snurglewozzle> we sit here and talk about NOTHING
15:00:24  <dih> Snurglewoozle: you wanna run that by me again?
15:00:31  <Yorick> now that is a dirty hack!
15:00:31  <dih> though use a bit better langauge next time
15:00:43  <Draakon> snurglewozzel: stfu and we talk about OpenTTS
15:00:47  <Draakon> OpenTTD*
15:00:51  <Snurglewozzle> i'm tired of your whinging about stuff, you're getting in the way of my ability to watch this blank scren
15:00:58  <Snurglewozzle> so shut up or i will ignore you
15:01:10  * Yorick ignores Snurglewozzle
15:01:15  <dih> and you think you harm any of us here?
15:01:18  <Snurglewozzle> talk about openttd?  haha, no you dont, you tell people who suggest stuff to shut up
15:01:24  <Draakon> omg
15:01:25  <dih> just get used to a more friendly language please
15:01:25  <Snurglewozzle> fuck you
15:01:32  <Draakon> you are the wierdy here
15:01:41  <Draakon> so fuck off or i will fuck you off
15:01:52  * Yorick enjoys peace
15:01:59  <Snurglewozzle> like i did you your mom?
15:02:03  *** Snurglewozzle was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [TrueBrain]
15:02:08  <Draakon> thank you
15:02:17  <Gekz> fuck?
15:02:19  <Gekz> >_>
15:02:33  <Yorick> TB is not even on this channel
15:02:43  <Draakon> wtf?
15:03:06  <Draakon> chanserver might have a custom name?
15:03:19  <Draakon> ogh
15:03:21  <Draakon> oh
15:03:22  <Draakon> nvm
15:03:45  <Yorick> any of the devs here?
15:03:45  <Draakon> yorick:it was dorpsgek who did that
15:03:50  <Yorick> yes
15:03:55  <Yorick> dorpsgek is a bot
15:04:18  <Draakon> yorick: i see 3 online currently
15:04:20  <Yorick> the one who gave the command is in the message
15:04:34  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
15:04:42  <dih> @help kick
15:04:42  <DorpsGek> dih: (kick [<channel>] <nick> [<reason>]) -- Kicks <nick> from <channel> for <reason>. If <reason> isn't given, uses the nick of the person making the command as the reason. <channel> is only necessary if the message isn't sent in the channel itself.
15:04:56  <dih> so if either specifies the reason TrueBrain :-)
15:05:01  <Yorick> ...if there is no reason given
15:05:11  <Yorick> and who would specify the reason TrueBrain?
15:05:14  <Draakon> lol
15:05:49  <Yorick> [16:05] lol no such nick/channel
15:06:04  <Draakon> ?
15:06:04  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [I would]
15:06:05  <dih> ?
15:06:10  <Draakon> wtf?
15:06:15  <jez> hahahaha
15:06:15  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
15:06:15  <dih> ROFL
15:06:21  <Draakon> LMAO
15:06:29  <peter1138> You guys need to get out more.
15:06:30  <dih> LOLOLOLOL
15:06:34  <Yorick> :D
15:06:37  <LordAzamath> I still can't get one thing..
15:06:52  <Yorick> I thought only TrueBrain liked kicking me :)
15:06:56  <jez> peter1138: that much is self-evident.  anyone who sits here and tells people to shut up so they can have 'peace' is retarded.
15:07:07  <LordAzamath> that snurglewozzle is somebody who was already here...
15:07:09  <LordAzamath> befpre
15:07:16  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Really?]
15:07:17  <LordAzamath> and just joined with another nick
15:07:26  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
15:07:29  <Draakon> rofl
15:07:29  <dih> this is sooo good
15:07:39  <Yorick> I may think what I think, can't I?
15:08:01  * Draakon thinks that dropsgek isnt a bot, hes a evil one instead!
15:08:15  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [You are an exception to the rule: you are not allowed to think; it is not good for peopls health]
15:08:25  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
15:08:31  <Yorick> ah, I thought so
15:08:32  <Draakon> rofl
15:08:32  <dih> :-P
15:08:43  <Draakon> poor yorick
15:08:50  <peter1138> Alas, poor yorick :o
15:08:56  <LordAzamath> ... how on earth did he know that dih was talking about CS?
15:09:00  <Yorick> if I think, I think too much, don't I?
15:09:22  <LordAzamath> leave thinking to smarter ones and just obey, would you?
15:09:28  <Yorick> [16:08] <@TrueBrain> poor poor Yorick :)
15:09:28  <Yorick> [16:09] <Yorick> grr
15:09:28  <Yorick> [16:09] * @TrueBrain hugs Yorick :)
15:09:30  <Yorick> :D
15:09:50  <Draakon> LordAzamath: thats a good question, dedective
15:10:13  <Yorick> LordAzamath: I AM the smarter ones :>)
15:10:38  <Draakon> yorick; you do want yourself get banned? :P
15:10:40  <LordAzamath> ?kick Yorick
15:10:42  <LordAzamath> :P
15:12:05  <Yorick> Draakon: I have no reason to believe they'll ban me
15:12:16  <LordAzamath> Yorick, why not
15:12:22  <LordAzamath> I got banned here once
15:12:29  <Draakon> you have been booted 3 times in row
15:12:35  <dih> yes
15:12:38  <Yorick> yes, but TB likes doing that
15:12:40  <dih> but that is just humor
15:12:45  <dih> yes
15:12:49  <Draakon> okey
15:12:51  <dih> TB used to boot me a bunch also
15:12:56  <Draakon> lol
15:13:00  <Yorick> you don't get banned for thinking :P
15:13:12  <Draakon> that will make some people kill him if they do that alot
15:13:15  <Draakon> :P
15:13:23  <LordAzamath> so good that I started to come IRCing when TB was less active...
15:13:30  <Draakon> brb
15:13:32  *** Slowpoke [] has joined #openttd
15:13:57  <Yorick> LA: he's not on this channel, but listening using DorpsGek, and banning when needed :_
15:14:06  <Yorick> or when totaly not needed
15:14:25  <dih> why would he listen throught the bot?
15:14:33  <Yorick> well...he does
15:14:48  <Yorick> *don't ask me*
15:15:09  <LordAzamath> ... yorick hasn't still seen that I left #?...
15:15:14  <Yorick> I have
15:15:38  <Yorick> I invited you a couple of times
15:15:51  <Draakon> k back
15:15:57  <LordAzamath> Yorick, oo
15:16:01  <LordAzamath> I didn't see
15:16:16  <Yorick> dev's: you _really_ need to send client lang
15:16:18  <LordAzamath> or.. I got debug messages
15:16:33  <glx> Yorick: why?
15:16:50  <dih> hehe
15:16:55  <peter1138> dev's what?
15:16:56  <Draakon> but it is possible to talk trough bot if it is not intergraded one with the network
15:17:03  <dih> only join a server that has your local language setting or LANGAUGE_ANY
15:17:06  <dih> ^^
15:17:39  <Yorick> made a client_lang, so please use it :)
15:17:56  <dih> it's used in the udp packets :-)
15:18:01  <LordAzamath> peter1138, dev has rights :P
15:18:03  <dih> and correctly
15:18:23  <Yorick> PACKET_CLIENT_JOIN contains it too
15:18:34  <Yorick> I assumed it was used
15:19:10  *** yorickSatan [] has joined #openttd
15:19:14  <Draakon> lol
15:19:23  <Yorick> ...
15:19:30  <yorickSatan> I am here to stop you getting PEACE, yorick.  muhahahah!  fuck you and your MOM!!!
15:19:31  <Draakon> its the satan! run for you lives
15:19:35  <Yorick> someone may now ban that crazy version of me
15:19:43  <yorickSatan> you cant sit and watch the blank IRC window!
15:19:44  <LordAzamath> [17:19] Yorick is Yorick
15:19:44  <yorickSatan> hahahaha
15:19:46  <yorickSatan> fucker
15:19:52  *** yorickSatan [] has quit []
15:19:54  <Yorick> oh noes!
15:21:09  <Yorick> I can safely ignore him :)
15:21:47  <LordAzamath> Yorick, not when he joins with different nick
15:22:02  <Yorick> hydrairc doesn't support hostmark ignoring :(
15:22:11  <Yorick> I'm waiting for him to annoy me again :)
15:22:30  <Draakon> i will kill him then :P
15:22:36  <Yorick> I do not even believe in satanic things
15:22:40  <Slowpoke> obiviously hydrairc sucks
15:22:50  * Yorick is using HydraIRC v0.3.160 (4/May/2007) - Grab it from
15:22:52  <Draakon> mirc is good
15:22:56  <Yorick> no its not
15:23:01  <Draakon> yes it is
15:23:09  <dih> flame wars
15:23:11  <Slowpoke> xchat is goodest!
15:23:17  <Draakon> fully customizable
15:23:19  <dih> xchat aqua here :-P
15:23:33  <Draakon> mac?
15:23:52  <Draakon> Mac OS IRC client i mean,?
15:23:58  <dih> yep
15:24:06  <dih> os x
15:24:10  <LordAzamath> Flammable war please now too...
15:24:11  <LordAzamath> :)
15:24:11  *** jez [] has left #openttd []
15:24:30  * Yorick unignores Jez
15:24:30  <SpComb> Logs:
15:24:30  <Draakon> !logs
15:25:15  <Draakon> LordAzamath>	isn't bitches all his world?
15:25:16  <Yorick> <yorickSatan> you cant sit and watch the blank IRC window! <-- is that what he meant with stopping me from getting peace?
15:25:17  <Draakon> ups
15:25:20  <Draakon> wrong person
15:25:22  <Draakon> no
15:25:26  <Draakon> copy&paste
15:25:31  <Draakon> 16:42:55 < jez> looks like im talking to you through logs now!
15:25:33  <Draakon> wow
15:25:34  <peter1138> Damn, I forgot how slow this PC is :(
15:25:36  * Yorick thinks...thinks...can't have peace because of thinking too hard!
15:26:05  <peter1138> 9 minutes to compile a debug build :o
15:26:09  * LordAzamath (~LAlord] left (Ping timeout: 540s)
15:26:16  <Draakon> 16:56:33 < jez> dih: fuck off, this isnt a CS channel
15:26:17  <Draakon> 16:56:39 < jez> we sit here and talk about NOTHING
15:26:24  <Draakon> wow
15:27:02  <Draakon> ah
15:27:04  <Draakon> i get it
15:27:13  <Yorick> LordAzamath: I generally don't believe purple messages
15:27:24  <Draakon> Snurglewozzle was jez
15:27:30  <dih> well - just need to think he is like 12 or 13 - i treat him like a younger brother and all is fine
15:27:43  <Draakon> only way he could know if dih talked about CS:S
15:27:54  <Yorick> we have a coop usual suspect that is around 10
15:28:13  <Yorick> try checking hostmask
15:28:41  <LordAzamath> Yorick, I generally don't believi in Ping timeout 540 seconds :P
15:29:00  <Draakon> yorick: no match :(
15:29:25  <peter1138> (Got a light?)
15:29:56  <LordAzamath> dih, younger... I'm still 14 for a few days more... And he isn't like me :P
15:30:06  <LordAzamath> peter1138 has a light
15:31:02  <dih> Draakon: the logs :-)
15:31:19  <Draakon> dih: what about them?
15:31:41  <dih> [16:27]  <Draakon> only way he could know if dih talked about CS:S
15:32:14  <LordAzamath> why should one just aimlessly watch logs of #openttd?
15:32:18  <Yorick> dih: what LA just said
15:32:26  <Draakon> still how did Snurglewozzle knew you were talking about CS:S even when he wasn't here when you asked about it
15:32:27  <Yorick> I've done that before
15:32:38  <peter1138> 15:25  Draakon> Snurglewozzle was jez
15:32:43  <LordAzamath> :)
15:32:45  <Draakon> IP doesnt match
15:32:49  <Draakon> peter
15:32:50  <peter1138> So?
15:33:02  <peter1138> Neither did yorickSatan.
15:33:09  <Draakon> Snurglewozzle couldn't be jez
15:33:11  <LordAzamath> maybe connected to another wifi :P
15:33:20  <Yorick> he didn't talk about CS, peter
15:33:39  <LordAzamath> I have here several free wifi networks available
15:33:49  <peter1138> Sure was. Jez is known to be antisocial and probably has access to a few compromised machines...
15:34:12  <Yorick> ^^
15:34:33  <Draakon> LordAzamath: wifi good only at bars and restaurants, not for gome
15:34:38  <peter1138> And damn it, it's still compiling :(
15:34:43  <LordAzamath> LordAzamath, depends..
15:34:49  <Draakon> lol
15:34:56  <LordAzamath> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
15:35:01  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has left #openttd [aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa]
15:35:04  <Draakon> why did you add your name in the beginning?
15:35:07  <Draakon> :S
15:35:18  *** Draakon [] has left #openttd []
15:35:20  *** Draakon [] has joined #openttd
15:35:37  <dih> Draakon: ever heared of web clients?
15:35:42  <Draakon> yes
15:35:44  <dih> i.e. irc-cgi
15:35:46  <peter1138> I didn't think the slow 1.6GHz P4 laptop would be much faster than the 1.25GHz Athlon...
15:35:51  <Draakon> i have, dih
15:35:52  <dih> guess what ip they use
15:36:00  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has joined #openttd
15:36:40  <dih> i have a vpn server, if i connect to the vpn guess what my hostmask will be...
15:36:45  <Draakon> a guy like jez couldn't think about that, could he? He even dint get the point of the game rating mechanism as it is same as in real life
15:37:24  <Draakon> anyway, lets dump this, shall we? he just a guy from planet Mars
15:37:46  <Draakon> and i for one, hate its citizens who come to Earth
15:38:01  <LordAzamath> *cough* planet toyland because he doesn't know mars grf *cough*
15:38:28  <Draakon> generally, jez is from another planet
15:38:38  <LordAzamath> yeah
15:39:15  * LordAzamath awaits for two PMs in the forums
15:39:41  <Draakon> what PMs?
15:39:54  <dih> click on my signature
15:40:00  <dih> pllleeeaaassseeee
15:40:08  <dih> better yet - register a domain there
15:40:32  <Draakon> ?
15:40:39  <Draakon> where is it?
15:41:54  <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII, I forgot to say who am I waiting the PMs from
15:42:01  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
15:42:24  <LordAzamath> one is pikkabird and other is dragonhorseboy
15:42:40  <Gonozal_VIII> manbearpig!
15:42:41  <LordAzamath> oh.. And then of course sapphire united
15:42:51  <Yorick> nooo
15:42:58  <LordAzamath> noo?
15:43:05  <Yorick> Sapphire united is evil
15:43:08  <LordAzamath> yes
15:43:17  <Draakon> Gonozal_VIII: Have you thinking about that adding some kind of patch that disables closure of industries and opening?
15:43:21  <LordAzamath> he bumped like two old topics
15:43:31  <Yorick> not only that
15:43:42  <LordAzamath> and when I disagreed with that he sent me a flaming pm :P
15:43:43  <Yorick> he is a known helper of Kirk Douglas for me :)
15:43:50  <Gonozal_VIII> that's grf stuff draakon
15:44:07  <Draakon> Gonozal_VIII: coding wise too
15:44:21  <LordAzamath> which I sent him reply... He hasn't even read it..
15:44:43  <LordAzamath> and of Kirk Douglas... Haven't had very much experience with him :P
15:44:50  <Yorick> I have
15:45:11  <Yorick> he revealed about his true intentions about the server he sometimes runs
15:45:22  <LordAzamath> I have seen him posting..
15:45:25  <Yorick> but, as he's banned on his favorite sabotaging spot...
15:45:34  <LordAzamath> and sapphire ranted about him..
15:45:36  <Yorick> Maarten finally found out his IP's
15:45:46  <LordAzamath> I know
15:45:49  <Yorick> and had to ban some 84.000 germans with him
15:45:55  <LordAzamath> he banned the whole range
15:46:42  <Yorick> his true intentions about the server he sometimes runs is stealing passwordsm which isn't possible anymore since beta2
15:47:17  <LordAzamath> he stole your PW?
15:47:25  <Yorick> no
15:47:31  <LordAzamath> tried?
15:47:45  <Yorick> he accidentally mentioned about the fact when I spoke to him
15:48:08  <Yorick> he tried to steal passwords from every user that joined his server
15:48:12  <Yorick> but he couldn't
15:48:19  <Yorick> he failed to patch a server
15:48:26  <Draakon> ok, what are you guys talking about?
15:49:17  <LordAzamath> Draakon, about one... guy
15:49:22  <Yorick> Sapphire United and Kirk Douglas
15:49:41  <dih>
15:49:41  <LordAzamath> as long as I remember sapphire was a victim of him
15:49:52  <Draakon> one of them had hes own server
15:50:05  <Draakon> and they posted screenshots in the same thread
15:50:06  <LordAzamath> but sapphire sabotages too.. other guys
15:50:09  <Yorick> spamming!
15:50:27  <Draakon> dih: why did you post that?
15:51:00  <dih> that was the sig :-P
15:51:24  <Draakon> too bad i can build in one style
15:51:26  <Draakon> only
15:53:49  <Draakon> Gonozal_VIII i meaed this by coding wise:
15:54:11  <Draakon> meaned*
15:54:31  <Draakon> stupid spellchecker
15:54:43  <Yorick> meant?
15:54:59  <Draakon> yes
15:55:10  <Yorick> :D
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15:59:45  <Draakon> i hunger for..........FOOD!
15:59:52  *** Draakon [] has quit [Quit: Bye all!]
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16:31:48  <LordAzamath> @base 10 16 1161
16:31:48  <DorpsGek> LordAzamath: 489
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16:46:23  <Nazcafan> hello
16:47:54  <Nazcafan> I am trying out the deb version of openttd (must be 5.3) but I noticed that fonts are not antialiased. From what I found, since a certain build, it is now possible to use antialiased fonts when activating the 32bpp glitter
16:48:32  <blathijs> Nazcafan: I think that's not yet in 0.5.
16:49:00  <Nazcafan> blathijs: I can download the latest 0.6 deb package, right ?
16:49:32  <Nazcafan> blathijs: or should I compile the source code with particular options ?
16:49:32  <blathijs> Yeah, you there is a package for the latest beta
16:49:47  <blathijs> Nazcafan: Try the precompiled version first, AFAIK that should work
16:49:59  <blathijs> if not, I should fix the package so that it works :-)
16:50:11  <Nazcafan> blathijs: how do I activate the 32bpp blitter ?
16:50:24  <LordAzamath> via cfg
16:50:47  <LordAzamath> blitter = 32bpp-optimized under [misc] tab
16:50:59  <LordAzamath> it currently should be 8bpp-optimized
16:51:31  <Nazcafan> LordAzamath: oh, now there is an "optimized" version for 32bpp ?
16:51:41  <Nazcafan> cool
16:56:57  <Nazcafan> LordAzamath: installed 0.6 beta, launched openttd again and quit, but could not find any line on my cfg containing blitter ... in which section should I add it ?
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16:57:14  <Yorick> [misc]
16:58:13  <Nazcafan> the position in the section does not matter, right ? (can I just add it at the end ?)
16:59:09  <mrfrenzy> in the future, are there any plans to increase the size of the sprites? making it possible to zoom closer and make it look better on huge screens
17:00:25  <Ammller> the planespeed has still no influence to the running costs and income?
17:00:25  <Nazcafan> seems to work, at least I did not get any error when launching openttd
17:02:39  <LordAzamath> mrfrenzy, try GeekToo's patch
17:03:42  <mrfrenzy> aah nice ;)
17:04:18  <Ammller> hmm, is it possible to lower the income over grf too?
17:04:28  <Ammller> like rising the running costs
17:04:29  <Yorick> yes
17:04:36  <Yorick> base costs mode does that
17:04:48  <Ammller> Yorick: well, I made that one :-)
17:04:50  <Yorick> mod*
17:04:59  <LordAzamath> Ammller, you don't ask me don't you :o
17:05:00  <Yorick> why do you ask?
17:05:27  <Ammller> because that grf doesn't lower the income
17:05:38  <Ammller> it just rised the running costs
17:05:40  <Yorick> <Ammller> like rising the running costs
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17:06:39  <Ammller> LordAzamath: if you know it, please anser :)
17:06:47  <LordAzamath> Ammller, doesn't say anything about incomes...
17:07:01  <LordAzamath> and I doubt there is something else what can be done...
17:07:18  <LordAzamath> so just rise the costs and make another currency perhaps
17:07:29  <Ammller> LordAzamath: thats maybe the only page I know well at that page :-)
17:08:07  <LordAzamath> hehe
17:09:12  <Nazcafan> ha ha ! it works !!
17:09:36  <Nazcafan> Thanks everybody
17:10:35  <Ammller> I let 2 planes fly for a year, that costs 8k and brings 300k with normal speed
17:11:05  <LordAzamath> Ammller, rise the running costs and change currency :P
17:11:06  <Ammller> if you let them run with 1/4 speed, it costs the same and brings 150k
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17:13:29  <Ammller> I think rising the running costs isn't the soloution
17:14:10  <Ammller> (you need a factor 32 or something like that)
17:14:16  <LordAzamath> hmm
17:14:52  <mrfrenzy> yeah the planes are way too good compared to reality
17:15:13  <Ammller> mrfrenzy: I don't compare to realiz
17:15:16  <Ammller> reality
17:15:19  <LordAzamath> Ammller, the profit will be less
17:15:23  <Ammller> I compare to 1/4 speed
17:16:10  <Ammller> I think, it would be easier for devs just to recuce the income the same way
17:16:45  <LordAzamath> in the same way as ships have different rating system?
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17:22:21  <SmatZ> Yorick: have you ever heard about a profiler? :-P
17:22:32  <Yorick> huh?
17:22:43  <SmatZ> ok :)
17:24:03  <Yorick> nope
17:24:08  <SmatZ> Yorick: do you play with enabled animation?
17:24:20  <Yorick> yes
17:24:25  <SmatZ> turn it off
17:24:29  <SmatZ> does it help?
17:24:36  <Yorick> trying
17:24:38  <glx> using 8bpp blitter?
17:25:26  <Yorick> no difference
17:25:33  <Yorick> en 8bbp blitter on
17:25:58  <Yorick> and*
17:26:16  <glx> oh, lot of new industries
17:26:49  <SmatZ> most likely caused by slow TileLoop...
17:26:59  <Yorick> how to fix?
17:27:11  <Yorick> are you saying that newindustries are the problem?
17:27:23  <Yorick> why wasn't it a problem in 0.6.0-beta3 then?
17:27:31  <SmatZ> hmm
17:28:31  <SmatZ> are you really sure it didn't happen in beta3?
17:28:34  <Yorick> yes
17:28:48  <SmatZ> can you provide a beta3 savegame?
17:28:53  <Yorick> in beta4, it happened, but less
17:31:12  <SmatZ> Yorick: your savegame doesn't cause any higher CPU usage than normal 2048x2048 game without any newgrfs for me
17:31:29  <Yorick> without any newgrfs
17:31:36  <SmatZ> yes
17:31:36  <Yorick> the save is using pbi
17:32:00  <SmatZ> I say, the newgrfs used do nto have significant effect on the game speed for me
17:32:22  <Yorick> in beta3, the cpu use is 6%, in 4, it is 20%, and in 5, it is 40%
17:32:26  <Yorick> the same save
17:33:03  <SmatZ> you didn't provide beta3 compatible savegame, so I can't reproduce it...
17:33:15  <SmatZ> I got ~30%
17:33:17  <Yorick> I'm doing
17:33:42  <Yorick> isn't that too much
17:33:54  <glx> not for a big map
17:34:05  <Yorick> but the same save uses 6% on beta3
17:34:12  <SmatZ> you can have more powerfull CPU or a version compiled with better optimisation settings
17:34:13  <Yorick>
17:34:33  <Yorick> I compiled both with the same compiler
17:34:45  <Yorick> the beta4 version is from
17:35:26  <Ammller> betas from openttd might have debug mode enabled?
17:35:50  <Yorick> trying in beta5 from, it is the same cpu use
17:35:52  <glx> only asserts
17:36:04  <Yorick> still 40%
17:36:15  <glx> try the win9x version
17:36:26  <Yorick> :o
17:36:28  <glx> asserts are disabled in it
17:37:03  <Yorick> I'll try
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17:38:21  <Yorick> 47%
17:47:07  <SmatZ> trunk: 23% beta5: 24% beta4: 24% beta3: 17%
17:47:17  <SmatZ> with the same compiler settings
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17:48:58  <Yorick> isn't that far too much?
17:56:29  <Yorick> what is client_lang currently used for?
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18:07:47  *** Yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
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18:26:27  <SmatZ> Yorick|AFK: you bug will be fixed soon :)
18:27:17  <dih> yorick is a bug?
18:27:19  <Vikthor> Yorick|AFK is a bug?
18:32:33  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12350 /trunk/src/water_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1836](r11947): do not try ti flood water tile (performance increase)
18:32:45  <SmatZ> yes
18:32:56  <SmatZ> :-D
18:33:03  <SmatZ> not anymore :)
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18:39:26  *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
18:39:37  <Yorick> thanks glx!
18:40:13  <glx> well SmatZ did the fix, I just searched the cause :)
18:41:10  <Yorick> !openttd commit 11947
18:41:23  <Yorick> @openttd commit 11947
18:41:23  <DorpsGek> Yorick: Commit by frosch :: r11947 /trunk/src (6 files) (2008-01-22 17:48:08 UTC)
18:41:24  <DorpsGek> Yorick: -Feature: Make use of new sprites added by Action5 type 0D.
18:41:25  <DorpsGek> Yorick:   Tiles which only consist of shore do not flood anymore, instead they get removed if they are no longer connected to flooding water.
18:41:43  <Yorick> oh, that one
18:41:54  <ln-> countries yet?
18:42:07  <Yorick> huh?
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18:42:32  <Yorick> it appears that the language isn't even sent to the server
18:43:01  <Yorick> 12350 doesn't affect any behavior, does it?
18:43:11  <Yorick> except cpu use
18:44:02  <SmatZ> it shouldn't affect anything :)
18:44:25  <Yorick> so I can patch a server with it :)
18:44:44  <SmatZ> yes
18:45:12  * Yorick does so and hopes that performance issue is fixed
18:45:28  <SmatZ> if you get many desyncs, then there is something wrong with the patch :-P
18:49:00  <Yorick> I found out that diagonal slopes try to get flooded aswell(the ones that are 1 tile above the half-water-tiles, 1 tile north to)(disabling height-limit)
18:50:21  <SmatZ> can you give an example?
18:51:19  <Yorick> would ascci art do?
18:52:00  <SmatZ> who knows?
18:54:15  <Yorick> t . t . t . t . t . t . t .   t=tries to get flooded
18:54:15  <Yorick> h f h f h f h f h f h f h     f=full shore tile, h=half shore, half water
18:54:15  <Yorick>   w   w   w   w   w   w   w   w=water
18:54:28  <ln-> doesn't sound like countries.
18:54:37  <Yorick> how do you mean, kn?
18:54:41  <Yorick> ln-*
18:55:01  <SmatZ> Yorick: are you sure?
18:55:09  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
18:55:14  <Yorick> when disabling height flooding limits
18:55:45  <SmatZ> why are you talking about "disabling height flooding limits"?
18:56:01  <Yorick> because its mee
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18:57:20  <Yorick> commenting out line 1041
18:57:40  <SmatZ> well.. do not comment it out then
18:57:54  <Yorick> that means it tries to flood it
18:58:18  <glx> I didn't touch this line
18:58:23  <Yorick> nope
18:58:26  <Yorick> it was there before
18:59:04  <Yorick> but, if you try to do that, it shows pretty strange behavior that was introduced in r11947
18:59:34  <SmatZ> Yorick: maybe that is the reason why that line is there :-P
18:59:45  <Yorick> I don\ n
18:59:51  <SmatZ> if you removed one line from any patch in OTTD
18:59:51  <Yorick> I do not like that line
18:59:57  <SmatZ> then it would behave really strange
19:00:04  <SmatZ> after almost every patch
19:00:09  <SmatZ> so I don't get your point :)
19:01:18  <Yorick> that patch appears to have solved my problem
19:01:21  <Yorick> :)
19:01:58  <SmatZ> ah... but the r12350 patch solves it and doesn't introduce any new bugs :)
19:02:02  <Yorick> it took the cpu use from 40% to 1%
19:06:38  <Yorick> you should rerelease beta5 with this patch, because it doesn't involve any MP incompatibilities
19:06:59  <Yorick> and gives dramatic cpu improvements
19:09:36  <SmatZ> only on maps with a lot of water
19:10:09  <peter1138> 1%? So better then before...
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19:12:30  <Yorick> loads of betterness!
19:13:14  <ln-> how many Bjarnis are required to guarantee a 24/7 Bjarni service?
19:13:33  <SmatZ> roughly 40
19:13:54  <SmatZ> maybe even more
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19:16:04  <Draakon> hello
19:16:30  <SmatZ> hello Draakon
19:16:34  <Yorick> hello
19:16:46  <ln-> hello chatzilla
19:16:51  <Draakon> ?
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19:18:55  <Draakon> hmm, feature freeze in trunk?
19:19:11  <SmatZ> sure
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19:23:23  <ln-> how about countries?
19:23:30  <Yorick> WHAT COUNTRIES?
19:24:07  <ln-> Yorick: MY POINT EXACTLY.
19:24:29  <Yorick> tell me what do you mean by "countries"?
19:25:48  <ln-> 3. The territory or land of a nation; usually an independent state, or a region once independent and still distinct in race, language, institutions, or historical memories, as England, Scotland, and Ireland, in the United Kingdom, etc.  [Oxford English Dictionary]
19:26:28  <Draakon> we know what it is but what countries and where?
19:26:47  <ln-> in OpenTTD, of course. this is #openttd.
19:27:01  <Yorick> Countries in openttd.
19:27:08  <Draakon> not good idea
19:27:10  <Yorick> How about being more descriptive?
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19:27:58  <Draakon> the game is about transportation, not politics
19:28:08  <ln-> who said anything about politics.
19:28:15  <Draakon> you did
19:28:38  <ln-> no, it was you.
19:28:51  <Draakon> no
19:29:11  <Draakon> if you add countries, you add politics too
19:29:14  <ln-> 21:27 < Draakon> the game is about transportation, not politics
19:29:52  <ln-> not true
19:30:04  <Draakon> this sentance looks like that you said it first
19:30:10  <Draakon> shows*
19:30:37  <Yorick> <ln-> how about countries?
19:30:43  <ln-> sentence
19:30:56  <Draakon> no politics means no countries
19:31:06  <ln-> i didn't say anything about politics, though. you made that up.
19:31:22  <Draakon> oeh
19:31:25  <Draakon> you dont get it
19:31:32  <Yorick> this is about openttd, not about countries
19:31:42  <ln-> no politics means no transportation, yet still we have a nice transportation game by chris sawyer.
19:31:56  <ln-> without politics.
19:32:37  <Draakon> transportation doesn't need politics
19:32:59  <ln-> of course it does.
19:33:19  <ln-> it does not work very well in anarchy.
19:33:58  <Draakon> ok, if we chop some wood down in forest, load it and then deliver it to our home, is that transportation?
19:34:26  <ln-> not very commercial transport.
19:36:06  <Draakon> it can be and it can not be, but you don't need politics for that transportation which means you don't need politics for transportation
19:37:28  <ln-> not for countries either.
19:38:46  <Draakon> you need because you need to vote for president, prime ministers and so on, and you need politics to make rules for voteing
19:38:58  <Draakon> voting*
19:39:31  <ln-> e.g. sweden and denmark don't have a president, yet still they are countries.
19:39:47  <Draakon> who they have instead presidents?
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19:40:18  <ln-> you did?
19:40:44  <Draakon> besides, in every country it has laws and rules which the citizens must follow, no-one can make them or edit them with out politics
19:41:44  <ln-> of course someone can, haven't you heard of dictators?
19:42:35  <Draakon> In political geography and international politics, a country is a political division of a geographical entity, a sovereign territory, most commonly associated with the notions of state or nation and government.
19:42:40  <Draakon> from
19:42:48  <Draakon> read it and you see that your wrong
19:43:31  <ln-> my wrong is what?
19:44:25  <Draakon> that you dont need politics for countries
19:44:28  <ln-> btw, i was not suggesting declaring a new independent country in real life, but rather having countries in a computer game.
19:44:41  <Draakon> not in OpenTTD
19:45:10  <ln-> yes in OpenTTD
19:45:19  <Draakon> no
19:45:28  <Draakon> its about transportation
19:45:39  <Draakon> not some fancy countries and economy bullshit
19:45:47  <ln-> exactly.
19:45:59  <Draakon> so no countries in OpenTTD!
19:46:04  <ln-> although actually it is about ecomony, too.
19:46:23  <ln-> but there will be no additional economy bullshit.
19:46:30  <Draakon> there will
19:46:39  <ln-> there will not
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19:47:11  <Yorick> oh_!
19:47:15  <oh> :O
19:47:33  <oh> long time no see ^^
19:47:36  <Draakon> ok, the game might be have little economy needed(industry and city vise only) but countries will add more of it which make the game itself then bullshit
19:47:48  <Yorick> long time no see oh_
19:48:32  <oh> I'm contemplating firing up my own openttd server complete with a fascist admin regime
19:49:04  <ln-> Draakon: how do you know before trying?
19:49:05  <Draakon> In-: you should also read this
19:49:09  <Yorick> :)
19:49:14  <oh> not a game without land-flatteners, company wreckers, blockers or just plain annoying people anymore :S
19:49:24  <Draakon> In-: because im not stupit
19:49:30  <ln-> Draakon: who is In-?
19:49:31  <Yorick> stupid
19:49:51  <Draakon> ln-*
19:51:19  <ln-> Draakon: you don't even know what kind of countries i'm proposing.
19:51:31  <oh> what are you two talkinga bout?
19:51:36  <Draakon> ln-: still whole wide no!
19:51:47  <Yorick> ln- is talking about countries
19:51:54  <oh> anyone happen to have a compiled nightly compatible with openttdcoop and leopard btw?
19:52:09  <Draakon> leopard? whats that?
19:52:18  <oh> os X
19:52:30  <Draakon> k
19:53:08  <oh> something broke with nightlies and leopard, and I can't for the life of me get the bloody thing compiled and working :S
19:53:39  <Draakon> download the libaries then
19:53:44  <ln-> Draakon: the idea of introducing countries to OpenTTD has been labeled as "interesting" by Celestar.
19:53:57  <oh> it seems xorg is the main breaking point :S
19:53:58  <Yorick> and Celestar is not here anymore
19:53:58  <ln-> (argumentum ad auctoritatem)
19:54:05  <ln-> Yorick: so?
19:54:21  <Yorick> goodluck convincing other dev;s
19:54:25  <Yorick> dev's*
19:54:27  <Draakon> ln-: still its about transportation, not goverments, countries and this kind of shit
19:54:30  <ln-> devs*
19:55:13  <ln-> Draakon: when did you become the one to decide about the OTTD development roadmap?
19:55:47  <Draakon> i dont but what i am saying its not fitting the game
19:56:11  <ln-> it completely fits the game.
19:56:16  <Draakon> no
19:56:22  <ln-> yes
19:56:25  <oh> heh
19:56:26  <Draakon> no
19:56:29  <ln-> yes
19:56:29  <Yorick> ln-, go making a patch if you think so
19:56:31  <Draakon> no
19:56:32  <Yorick> no
19:56:34  <Draakon> no
19:56:34  <oh> snap out of it you two :S
19:56:39  <Yorick> yes
19:56:44  <Draakon> no
19:56:54  <Yorick> yes you should
19:56:55  <ln-> oh: we're having a conversation.
19:56:56  <Draakon> no
19:57:06  <oh> a productive one aswell I see
19:57:16  <ln-> yes
19:57:20  <Draakon> no
19:57:29  <Draakon> :P
19:57:51  <Yorick> no-yes-heh-no-yes-snap out of it you two!-no-yes-no-:p
19:58:01  <Draakon> no
19:58:24  <Yorick> yes
19:58:37  <Draakon> no
19:58:52  <Yorick> another bot!
19:58:55  <Draakon> no
19:58:59  <Yorick> ...
19:59:09  * Yorick waits for no
19:59:14  <Draakon> why do you think im bot?
19:59:33  <Yorick> because you say no after everything
19:59:36  <ln-> Draakon: use the apostrophe properly.
19:59:50  <Draakon> yorick: so?
19:59:56  <Yorick> no
20:00:08  <Draakon> your the bot instead
20:00:40  <Draakon> ln-: grammacaster *sigh*
20:01:31  <ln-> using the apostrophe is more like on the level of orthography.
20:02:17  <Draakon> this here is a irc chat, not book of science
20:02:22  *** Ammller [~Ammler@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20:02:52  <ln-> Draakon: which doesn't mean people should not pay any attention to their text.
20:03:22  <ln-> Draakon: it's an insult towards the reader.
20:04:03  <Draakon> ln-: for you yes, rest, not, but orthography doesnt need so much attention in irc channell
20:05:14  * Draakon ignores ln- now
20:05:21  <SpComb> Logs:
20:05:21  <Draakon> !logs
20:05:35  <Yorick> he hasn't sayed anything
20:05:35  <oh> it's bad practice to drop proper writing in any medium
20:05:41  <ln-> Draakon: it's impolite to write badly and assume the 200 readers spend time trying to figure out what you were saying.
20:05:58  <Yorick> 105
20:06:11  <ln-> 95 people read only the logs.
20:07:13  <Draakon> ln-: In science book, you write the way that you need to write, in IRC, it doesnt matter so much, except l337 language
20:07:17  <oh> now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to break my tv into half a million pieces
20:07:26  <Draakon> oh: why?
20:07:27  <oh> american idol on three channels.
20:07:36  <oh> it needs to stop. now.
20:07:49  <Draakon> ban it from your network
20:07:55  <glx> Yorick: since when to say is not irregular?
20:07:58  <oh> breaking my tv is more satisfying
20:08:08  <ln-> Draakon: så den spelar ingen roll om man skriver t.ex på svenska?
20:08:33  <Draakon> ln-; This is English channel
20:08:43  *** Zavior [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:08:49  <Draakon> not any other
20:09:13  <oh> and yet you propose english grammar be dropped because this is not a channel devoted to a scientific subject :P
20:09:47  <ln-> Draakon: in IRC, it [the language] doesn't matter so much, except l337 language.
20:10:00  <ln-> Draakon: and clearly that wasn't l337 language, was it?
20:10:23  <ln-> oh: exactly.
20:10:37  <Draakon> you want to see what l337 aka Leet language is?
20:10:48  <ln-> definitely not.
20:10:50  * Yorick ignores Draakon
20:11:00  * Yorick enjoys peace
20:11:25  <SpComb> Logs:
20:11:25  <Yorick> !logs
20:11:32  <Draakon> oh: no i dint but people who use IRC channels understand everyway of speaking, except leet language
20:11:50  <Yorick> they don't understand chinese
20:11:51  <glx> please use your browser bookmarks
20:12:18  <oh> you can't expect random person X to understand a defunct version of a language
20:12:26  <Draakon> because they are not chineese and this is english channel where it is forbidden anyway
20:12:33  <ln-> Draakon: yet you didn't understand the swedish everyway of speaking?
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20:13:08  <ln-> Draakon: and you think anything that is written in "english" (in someone's opinion of english) is understandable to everyone?
20:13:09  <Draakon> *sigh*
20:13:21  <oh> there are thousands of examples of how subtle grammatical variations can vastly alter the message you put across
20:13:32  <oh> which is why precision is vital to any form of written communication
20:13:46  <oh> more so in a medium such as IRC than discussion among scholars, actually
20:14:23  *** Draakon [] has quit [Quit: it is useless to fight whit a idiot and run with a calf]
20:14:59  <oh> interesting argumentation :S
20:15:02  <ln-> haha
20:15:38  <Yorick> an idiot
20:15:48  <oh> with*
20:16:16  <oh> excuse me for not knowing how to add bold text ;>
20:16:31  <Yorick> try ctrl-b to switch between normal and bold
20:16:47  <Yorick> ctrl-bctrl-bctrl-bctrl-b
20:17:01  <oh> no luck
20:17:15  <Yorick> you don't see it when typing
20:17:22  <oh> my client isnt exactly the most advanced
20:18:08  <oh> it does have a button for easy access to smilies though!
20:18:36  <oh> not to mention encoding, since utf-8 is evil
20:18:38  <ln-> glx: perhaps !logs could be added to the list of DorpsGek's kick words?
20:19:04  <oh> I think "oh" should be added aswell
20:19:09  <Yorick> oh
20:19:15  <oh> just to see how that'd affect yoricks daily irc life
20:19:22  <Yorick> nooooooh_
20:20:38  <glx> ln-: well !logs is not really a problem, but once you used it, you should bookmark the url
20:21:46  <ln-> glx: yeah.. well, allowed once per year per nick? :)
20:22:03  <Yorick> per tick?
20:22:18  <Yorick> 74 times a-day?
20:22:31  <ln-> i've heard of d-day, but not a-day.
20:22:36  <glx> and DorpsGek's kick words are in my client only
20:22:36  <Yorick> a'day
20:22:46  <ln-> never head of a'day either.
20:22:58  <Yorick> thats why it doesn't work when glx is away
20:23:21  <glx> when I'm not online
20:24:12  <Yorick> have to go now
20:24:15  <Yorick> bye!
20:24:24  *** Yorick [] has quit [Quit:  Always remember you're unique. Your quit message doesn't undergo the same faith.]
20:27:20  <ln-> something odd happened today, i woke up at about 0750, an hour before my alarm clock.
20:27:45  <ln-> and now i feel like i could go sleep, which is also very odd at this time.
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20:37:27  *** oh [] has quit [Quit: oh]
20:45:29  <SmatZ> odd
20:45:31  <Slowpoke> propably you are pregnant
20:45:47  <SmatZ> :-D
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21:18:38  <peter1138> Hmm, so...
21:18:52  <peter1138> I wish my alarm clock was set to 08:50...
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21:29:58  <Roujin> @seen ammler
21:29:58  <DorpsGek> Roujin: ammler was last seen in #openttd 1 day, 7 hours, 59 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <Ammler> but that would be amazing:
21:30:12  <Ammler> :-)
21:30:30  <Roujin> one day ago? oO
21:30:51  <Roujin> something is wrong here
21:30:54  <Ammler> the bot is case sensitiv :-)
21:31:04  <Roujin> @seen Ammler
21:31:04  <DorpsGek> Roujin: Ammler was last seen in #openttd 9 seconds ago: <Ammler> the bot is case sensitiv :-)
21:31:15  <Roujin> oh, okay...
21:31:25  <Roujin> well i made the patch
21:31:26  <peter1138> +e
21:31:34  <Sacro> 3========D
21:31:39  <Ammler> cool
21:31:54  <Roujin> without gui changes atm
21:32:02  <Ammler> hmm?
21:32:02  <Roujin> just holding ctrl while building canal
21:32:17  <Ammler> well, that sounds ok, too
21:32:47  <Ammler> do you know, which developer included the river patch?
21:32:47  <Roujin> not tested in multiplayer yet.. but should work
21:32:55  <Roujin> hmm
21:33:35  <Ammler> I guess, its a fine alternative until there is livery_river is impelmented
21:33:44  <Roujin> peter1138
21:33:55  <Ammler> :)
21:34:24  <Ammler> peter1138: do you mind to include a nice addon to rivers?
21:34:34  <Roujin> @commit 11926
21:34:35  <DorpsGek> Roujin: Commit by peter1138 :: r11926 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2008-01-19 17:00:54 UTC)
21:34:36  <DorpsGek> Roujin: -Feature: Rivers. Graphics must be provided by NewGRF else rivers are drawn as canals. Rivers can currently only be placed with-in the scenario editor.
21:34:53  <Ammler> possibility to build rivers in playing mode
21:35:34  <Roujin> i have to go afk for a bit.. will give the patch to you later ammler...
21:36:22  <Ammler> well, I really would like it
21:36:48  <Ammler> at least we need it at #openttdcoop memberzone
21:38:01  <Ammler> thanks very much Roujin
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21:40:14  <peter1138> Not really.
21:40:33  <peter1138> Rivers deserve better than some company just placing them in-game.
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21:54:55  <Ammler> peter1138: its the same with trees
21:55:05  <Ammler> then you should also not allow to place trees
21:55:46  <Ammler> rivers should not only be allowed, they should also rise the rating like trees
21:55:58  <Ammler> at least its in our country
22:04:04  <Ammler> peter1138: rivers is quite useless for MP mode as it is now
22:07:45  <Ammler> [22:40] <peter1138> Rivers deserve better than some company just placing them in-game. <-- well, I know, you hate patch switches, so this is also no option :(
22:07:48  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:12:44  <Ammller> and our goverment would never allow a company do build canals, but something like rivers are welcome
22:12:49  <XeryusTC> Ammller: a river is a natural thing that comes from melt/rain water
22:12:56  <XeryusTC> trees can be planted by humans
22:12:59  <XeryusTC> but rivers cannot
22:13:25  <Ammller> well, 20 years ago, you are right
22:13:47  <Ammller> but time has changed, now, be bulldoze canals and build rivers
22:14:13  <XeryusTC> all man made water things are called canals
22:16:24  <Ammller> well, not in my language/country
22:17:08  <Ammller> if you can bulldoze a whole mountain
22:17:23  <Ammller> why not allow to build a small nice river?
22:18:13  <mrfrenzy> I agree, you can't build a river
22:18:13  <XeryusTC> because it is a canal if it is made by man
22:18:26  <mrfrenzy> rivers are made by water eroding the land
22:19:18  <XeryusTC> A river is a natural waterway that transports water through a landscape from higher to lower elevations. A river is a component of the water cycle. The water within a river is generally collected from precipitation through surface runoff, groundwater recharge (as seen at baseflow conditions / during periods of lack of precipitation) and release of stored water in natural reservoirs, such as a glacier.
22:19:20  <XeryusTC> from wikipedia
22:19:27  <XeryusTC> note the first sentence
22:20:03  <mrfrenzy> thing is, since there is no rain in openttd, there can never be rivers ;)
22:20:24  <XeryusTC> rivers can also come from meltwater from mountains
22:20:36  <XeryusTC> although the snow/ice has to be supplied too somehow
22:21:12  <Ammller> well, fact is that we don't have maps with rivers
22:21:20  <Ammller> so it should be able to build them self
22:21:30  <mrfrenzy> no, but there are maps with canals
22:21:43  <mrfrenzy> you can't build a river in openttd, not even in the scenario editor
22:21:49  <mrfrenzy> since it won't let there be water on high ground
22:21:57  <XeryusTC> you can in the nightlies
22:22:00  <mrfrenzy> there is only the sea which seeps through some places
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22:22:09  <mrfrenzy> o rly?
22:22:13  <XeryusTC> @commit 11926
22:22:14  <DorpsGek> XeryusTC: Commit by peter1138 :: r11926 /trunk/src (7 files in 2 dirs) (2008-01-19 17:00:54 UTC)
22:22:15  <DorpsGek> XeryusTC: -Feature: Rivers. Graphics must be provided by NewGRF else rivers are drawn as canals. Rivers can currently only be placed with-in the scenario editor.
22:22:23  <mrfrenzy> aha
22:22:38  <XeryusTC> they're somewhat the same as canals, but you cannot place them yourself
22:22:42  <XeryusTC> have different graphics
22:22:53  <XeryusTC> but there are barely scenarios with rivers :(
22:23:00  <Ammller> you need to switch from scenario to play mode all the time
22:23:16  <Ammller> thats possible in SP but really hard in MP
22:23:23  <XeryusTC> RichK had an idea about making rivers feel "alive"
22:23:26  <mrfrenzy> where in the scenario editor do you find that?
22:23:37  <mrfrenzy> I can only  make canals, and only on flat ground
22:23:38  <XeryusTC> where rivers take account of flow
22:23:40  <Ammller> mrfrenzy: have you nightly instaled?
22:23:50  <mrfrenzy> 12328
22:23:51  <XeryusTC> so they actually change course when you terraform in their area
22:23:51  <peter1138> beta5
22:23:56  <peter1138> (or)
22:24:04  <Ammller> check in scenario mode
22:24:09  <mrfrenzy> yes I'm there
22:24:15  <Ammller> its just right of canals
22:24:33  <mrfrenzy> there is rocks
22:24:44  <mrfrenzy> aah you mean that
22:24:50  <mrfrenzy> "place rivers"
22:24:51  <Ammller> well, I don't know betas
22:25:07  <Ammller> :)
22:25:26  <mrfrenzy> lol
22:25:30  <mrfrenzy> I probably found a bug
22:25:44  <mrfrenzy> until I drew a canal anywhere on the map, the river tool only worked on flat ground
22:25:54  <Ammller> [23:23] <XeryusTC> so they actually change course when you terraform in their area <-- we need something to bridge the time to that
22:26:18  <XeryusTC> Ammller: flow per day :P
22:26:27  <mrfrenzy> well now sleep ;)
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22:26:34  <Ammller> night
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22:36:58  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:42:15  <Ammller> well we will see, if the patch is out, if I am really the onlyone looking for such a feature
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23:34:34  <jez> Don't suppose there are any C++ gurus in here? :-)
23:34:41  <jez> I'm having trouble compiling the copy/paste patch
23:35:05  <fjb> :-) :-) :-P
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