Log for #openttd on 9th March 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:23:39  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
00:30:12  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
00:31:14  *** dR3x4cK [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:31:55  *** jez [] has quit []
00:51:31  * peter1138 mumbles as Exchange grinds to a half.
00:51:35  <peter1138> Er, a halt.
00:57:56  *** Osai [] has quit [Quit: Osai]
00:58:23  *** Leviath [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:09:47  <Ammller> hmm, client desyncs if I try to build rivers on a server which is not patched :(
01:10:17  <SmatZ> :-)
01:10:39  <SmatZ> OTTD is protected against hacked clients
01:10:50  <Ammller> if (p2 != 0 && _game_mode != GM_EDITOR) return CMD_ERROR; <-- I feat, that line is quilty
01:11:48  <Ammller> SmatZ: well, devs, said, they don't include things, because it uses more cpu usage
01:13:03  <SmatZ> Ammller: like building of rivers is disabled in an active game because it would use more CPU?
01:13:54  <Ammller> yeah, that must be the reason, isn't?
01:13:56  <SmatZ> I think it is a bit unrealistic to "build" river (I would even disable bulldozing it)
01:14:21  <SmatZ> one can use canals / locks instead
01:14:44  <Ammller> well, that depense only of people
01:14:50  <Ammller> of goverment
01:15:10  <Ammller> in our country is almost impossible to build canals, today
01:15:47  <Ammller> its other way you bulldoze canals and build rivers, but I know, you see it other way
01:15:48  <glx> but you can build rivers?
01:16:36  <Ammller> maybe you can just set a mulitplicator for rivers of 10 or so?
01:17:47  <Ammller> could you at least remove that "hacker" prevention?
01:18:21  <Ammller> well, maybe after release of 0.6.0 :-)
01:19:00  <SmatZ> I think there can be changes regarding lakes/rivers/canals after 0.6.0, yes :)
01:19:06  <SmatZ> but sure not now
01:19:27  <Ammller> oh, of course, I see companies planting trees all the time here...
01:20:25  <SmatZ> planting a tree is something different that routing a water source to your place
01:20:46  <Ammller> we call it "Renaturalisieren"
01:20:56  <Ammller> don't know a english word for that
01:21:36  <SmatZ> there has to be water source somewhere...
01:21:47  <Ammller> snow?
01:21:48  <SmatZ> it is in the hands of "god", the creator of scenario
01:21:53  <SmatZ> maybe...
01:22:13  <Ammller> well, what happen with snow?
01:22:18  <SmatZ> but during the game, it would be strange if players could start a river anywhere in the map
01:22:20  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
01:22:30  <SmatZ> snow sublimates :-P
01:22:40  <Ammller> well, think about MP mode
01:22:59  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
01:23:00  <Ammller> in sp mode you can quickly switch to scenario editor and play god
01:23:13  <Ammller> but its even harder to do that in MP mode
01:23:14  <dih> Ammler?
01:23:19  <dih> what nees restricting?
01:23:42  <Ammller> dih: I alredy changed
01:23:46  <dih> ah - ok
01:24:12  <Ammller> well, is it possible to restrict anonymous access to revsions less then rX?
01:24:22  <dih> revisions - no
01:24:27  <dih> paths - yes
01:24:41  <dih> perhaps with svn 1.5
01:24:43  <dih> :_)
01:24:43  <Ammller> I changed anonymous access to tags only
01:24:50  <dih> oh?
01:25:03  <dih> why is that?
01:25:17  <Ammller> because you shouldn't checkout a old grf
01:25:48  <dih> why not?
01:26:01  <Ammller> thats why GRFs authors don't like if you host their GRFs
01:26:05  <dih> if i have access to tags i have access to older revisions
01:26:16  <Ammller> they like to have only newest releases around...
01:26:41  <Ammller> well, we have to discuss it further
01:26:45  *** Zuu [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:26:58  <Ammller> It might need to restrict it for old tags too later
01:27:08  <dih> well - in worse case tags will not be ok then either
01:27:13  <dih> but
01:27:17  <dih> in all honesty
01:27:25  <Ammller> of course, the newest one
01:27:34  <dih> i am not entierly sure they can restrict usage of their grf's like that
01:28:02  <Ammller> well, its not question if the can do it, they like to do it
01:28:10  <Ammller> thats enough, we have to respect that
01:28:19  <dih> but then they like to see their grfs spread also
01:28:36  <SmatZ> can GRF author forbid using his GRF in openttdcoop GRF pack? if so, then it is better not to make him upset :)
01:28:57  <dih> you could see it both ways
01:29:06  <SmatZ> dih: true
01:29:10  <dih> i.e. openttdcoop on the more desperate side
01:29:16  <dih> in need of grfs
01:29:33  <dih> or the auther in need of having people using his/her/its grfs
01:29:47  <dih> and thus in need of openttdcoop's grfpack
01:29:53  <SmatZ> it is about "supply and demand" of grfs :)
01:30:00  <dih> as a source of making his/her/its work more popular
01:30:16  <dih> it would have to be a really really good one
01:30:18  <Ammller> well, its not that we deleted old grfs
01:30:21  <dih> to make me desperate ^^
01:30:31  <dih> it's in svn
01:30:41  <dih> we cannot delete
01:30:46  <Ammller> :)
01:30:52  <Ammller> well, you can...
01:30:55  <dih> no
01:30:57  <dih> you cannot
01:31:06  <dih> you can break the database
01:31:18  <dih> but you cannot decently remove a file from svn
01:31:26  <Ammller> hmm, there is something like a clean repo
01:31:53  <Ammller> which you can let them remove deleted files older then something, not?
01:32:13  <Ammller> I thought, I did read that somewhere
01:32:47  <Fujitsu> dih: You can dump it, manually remove any trace of the file, then reimport it, which is properly removing it, albeit an unnoticeable hack.
01:32:57  *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40]
01:33:16  <Ammller> Fujitsu: I guess, there is a "simple" svn command for doing that
01:33:38  <Fujitsu> I don't know of one.
01:33:55  <Fujitsu> I doubt they'd want to make it easy, as it is very evil.
01:34:17  <glx> the goal of a version control system is to keep trace of all changes
01:34:21  <Fujitsu> Exactly.
01:34:32  *** dih [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
01:35:30  <Fujitsu> If you don't want to keep track of changes to the GRFs, what were they doing in a VCS in the first place?
01:35:54  <Ammller> who said that?
01:36:29  <Fujitsu> You're wanting to remove access to old versions, aren't you?
01:36:37  <Ammller> access for anonymous
01:36:47  *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd
01:36:56  <Ammller> I still need old revisions for making update packs
01:36:57  <Fujitsu> Whatever happened to being open?
01:36:59  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
01:38:35  <Ammller> Fujitsu: some GRF Authors don't like it, if you use old grfs with bugs or glitches or whatever
01:38:48  <Fujitsu> I'd say that's their problem...
01:39:08  *** dih [] has joined #openttd
01:39:21  <Ammller> no, I don't like to annoy them
01:39:38  <dih> TrueBrain and i just setup a CS:S server and had some very funny games
01:39:53  <Ammller> counterstrike?
01:39:54  <Fujitsu> So we need non-free GRFs to play the most open multiplayer game of an open source game?
01:40:13  <dih> most open?
01:40:24  <dih> and we do not net non-free grfs atm?
01:40:32  <Ammller> well, the most GRFs arei indeed not GPL'd
01:40:46  <dih> what are they?
01:40:53  <Fujitsu> I'd say the no old versions restriction is a nasty restriction on distribution.
01:41:00  <Ammller> they are just hmm, they are just
01:41:06  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
01:41:12  <dih> yes?
01:41:19  <Ammller> yes, they are
01:41:31  <dih> gpl?
01:41:36  <Ammller> even not
01:41:51  <dih> 'eben nicht'
01:41:57  <Ammller> I know the usset and jpset, which are
01:41:59  <dih> does not really translate that way ^^
01:42:25  <dih> that is quite imporant
01:42:34  <Ammller> you can see it in GRF_Table at our page, which are
01:43:07  <Ammller> most GRFs are more closed then the original grfs :P
01:43:45  <Ammller> (no, it isn't that bad)
01:44:14  <dih> why do we support that?
01:44:27  <Fujitsu> I am wondering the same.
01:45:02  <dih> for another thing: are there no loopholes?
01:45:04  <Ammller> well, you won't use dbsetxl?
01:45:34  <dih> worst case scenario
01:45:35  <dih> ok
01:45:41  <dih> but we can make pressure
01:45:58  <Ammller> well, try it
01:46:07  <dih> i.e. either grfpack, or restricted license
01:46:09  <dih> authors choice
01:46:15  <Ammller> force all to make their GRFs opensource
01:46:21  <dih> no
01:46:41  <dih> force all to not restrict in a way that limits our distribution
01:46:54  <Ammller> nobody does that...
01:47:03  <dih> then whats wrong with old versions?
01:47:13  <Ammller> I know only one GRF, which I we not allowed to distribute
01:47:25  <dih> which one?
01:47:33  <Ammller> Oskars Bridge
01:47:35  *** Dominik [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:47:41  <Ammller> well, he might have more grfs...
01:47:46  <Diabolic-Angel> Thats quite a sad tendency..
01:48:09  <Ammller> huh?
01:48:09  <dih> so all other grf's have no issues with us having old versions?
01:48:23  <dih> gtf athors rather
01:48:37  <Ammller> of couse, I guess, everyone would
01:49:22  <dih> then we dont need to fobit anon access to trunk/ of the grfpack
01:49:23  <Ammller> all have no problems with distributing as long as we only distribute the current one, which would also be downloadalbe from their pages
01:49:40  <dih> that is what i just asked about
01:50:07  <dih> that is what limits the distribution
01:50:12  <Ammller> but why should you need the possibitly to download a old version of a grf?
01:50:23  <dih> save games?
01:50:27  <Ammller> what does that help us?
01:50:41  <Ammller> no the grfs are backwards compatible, mostly
01:50:45  <Fujitsu> Ammller: Why should you need to modify OpenTTD?
01:50:48  <dih> our old published save games
01:50:50  <Fujitsu> Should modification be banned?
01:51:08  <dih> ?
01:51:12  <Ammller> ?
01:51:47  <Ammller> go to the devs and complain about a bug in openttd 0.4.8
01:51:51  <Fujitsu> Ammller: YOu suggest that because you shouldn't need to download old versions of a GRF, you shouldn't be able to.
01:52:07  * SmatZ thinks about "no copy&paste in openttdcoop games" restriction... everyone has restrictions...
01:52:31  <Ammller> SmatZ: we have much more
01:52:31  <dih> nono
01:52:41  <dih> that is clearly against the usage of pasting junktions
01:52:45  <Ammller> every 2. tile a signal
01:52:48  <Ammller> etc....
01:52:57  <dih> those are building guide lines
01:53:18  <dih> dont mix the style of building with the distribution of software
01:53:57  <dih> 2 diff things
01:54:26  <Ammller> dih: try to download suse 5.0
01:54:38  <dih> i have it at home
01:54:50  <Ammller> or go to a shop to buy windows 3.1
01:55:15  <Ammller> or soon windows xp
01:55:28  <dih> again
01:55:28  <Gonozal_VIII> xp is better than vista
01:55:38  <Fujitsu> And *nobody* *anywhere* has complained that Windows XP is vanishing. Of course not.
01:55:41  <SmatZ> well... you can buy "used" windows
01:55:41  <dih> buying software from a reseller aint = buying software
01:56:12  <Ammller> there are many reasons not to distribute old versions
01:56:34  <Ammller> most important is to reduce support because of using it
01:56:59  <dih> being available in svn does not mean supported
01:57:46  <Ammller> well, as I said, I didn't delete it
01:58:47  <dih> well - you cannot ^^
01:58:51  <Fujitsu> You just effectively tried to delete it.
01:59:02  <Ammller> SmatZ: do you know, how openttd does store the svn repo?
01:59:06  <Ammller> in fs or db?
01:59:43  <dih> Ammller: i would advise not mucking around in either of svn repository types
02:00:04  <SmatZ> Ammller: I have no clue
02:00:20  <Ammller> :D
02:00:30  <Ammller> I was just wondering
02:01:20  <Ammller> I don't have that much faith in dbs... :-)
02:01:53  <SmatZ> neither do I :)
02:02:07  <dih> well - berkely - no
02:02:09  <SmatZ> I would guess db would be slower
02:02:12  <dih> fsfs is pretty good
02:02:20  <SmatZ> but... who knows  (I don't)
02:02:34  <dih> there is a comparison on the svn book
02:02:37  <Ammller> but we use berkley, don't we?
02:03:44  <dih> nope
02:03:45  <dih> fsfs
02:04:09  <dih> default setting
02:05:41  *** fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
02:06:53  <Ammller> I guess, I had that in mind, as I thought about "cleaning": Purging unused Berkeley DB logfiles
02:07:36  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
02:08:10  <Fujitsu> The logs are DB binary logs. They very probably don't store the Subversion history.
02:08:51  <dih> if it were that simple
02:09:01  <dih> deleting revisions files and whatnot
02:09:05  <dih> from a svn repository
02:09:13  <dih> theey probably would have implemented it
02:09:24  <dih> dont you think?
02:09:30  <Fujitsu> Why would they implement it?
02:09:40  <Fujitsu> It defies the point of any VCS.
02:09:45  <Ammller> for saving space?
02:10:41  <Fujitsu> You want to cull history just to save space? That's a very restricted use case.
02:10:51  <Ammller> after 10000 revision, you don't need every single revsion below 1000 anymore
02:10:58  <Fujitsu> Why not?
02:11:06  <dih> read their docs
02:11:08  <Fujitsu> I saw a fix for r3xxx a few days ago.
02:11:17  <dih> you will be given at least one scenario where it is of use
02:11:38  <SmatZ> sure you need with OTTD
02:12:21  <SmatZ> @commit 12166
02:12:23  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r12166 /trunk/src (4 files) (2008-02-17 12:21:05 UTC)
02:12:24  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix [FS#337]: when drag&drop mode was cancelled by keyboard input, depot/group window wasn't updated (original patch by GrimRC)
02:12:39  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:12:44  <SmatZ> errr
02:12:57  <Ammller> :-)
02:13:57  <Ammller> same as with backups, after sometime you keep only monthly or yearly backups
02:14:05  <SmatZ> @commit 12097
02:14:05  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by glx :: r12097 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2008-02-10 05:21:08 UTC)
02:14:06  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r654, r1525): loading old, pre savegame version 2, savegames.
02:14:22  <SmatZ> fixing two bugs in revisions older than 10000 :)
02:14:31  <Ammller> @commit 654
02:14:31  <DorpsGek> Ammller: Commit by tron :: r654 /trunk (13 files) (2004-11-17 08:52:47 UTC)
02:14:32  <DorpsGek> Ammller: Hopefully complete support for randomized variational spritegroups (i.e. the cars transporter in DBSetXL gets different cars each time) (pasky)
02:15:08  <Gonozal_VIII> action 2 for action a?
02:15:15  <Ammller> and why was it helpful to keep that revision?
02:15:18  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
02:15:21  <Gonozal_VIII> ah
02:15:36  <Gonozal_VIII> old...
02:15:36  <SmatZ> to see what else was changed in that revision
02:15:47  <Fujitsu> Ammller: The same reason you have it for any other revision.
02:15:59  <Ammller> Fujitsu: which is?
02:16:12  <SmatZ> @commit 11982
02:16:12  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by frosch :: r11982 trunk/src/oldloader.cpp (2008-01-25 13:54:27 UTC)
02:16:13  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Revert (r8738): Now we have shores in corners. No need to remove them from TTDP games.
02:16:29  <dih> if you could just dump old data like that to save space, suggest to the devs to make a new svn repo starting at r10000 :-D
02:16:31  <SmatZ> reverting 3000 old revision
02:16:52  <Ammller> SmatZ: how did you revert
02:16:54  <Ammller> ?
02:16:56  <Fujitsu> Ammller: So I can see why some change was introduced. So I can see who introduced it. So I can see what it was changed from.
02:17:18  <Fujitsu> So I can revert to the revision before and see that it was, in fact, that revision that blew up the world.
02:17:21  <Ammller> well, its another thing when you work with code
02:17:30  <SmatZ> Ammller: I don't know, maybe taking the diff and applying it with -N or so...
02:17:46  <glx> svn merge -c -rev
02:17:46  <Ammller> not merge?
02:17:52  <Ammller> :-)
02:18:07  <Sacro>,-0.549204&spn=0.002115,0.006904&t=k&z=18
02:18:08  <Ammller> merge doesn't work with files
02:18:13  * SmatZ has no skills whatsoever
02:18:41  <glx> Ammller: how do you think we sync branches?
02:19:08  <SmatZ> people driving on the left road side, scary :-/
02:19:31  <Fujitsu> SmatZ: Most sane countries do that, I'm afraid.
02:19:33  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
02:19:39  <Ammller> well, I don't think its taht easy :)
02:19:58  <dih> read the svn book ^^
02:20:31  *** Netsplit <-> quits: +michi_cc
02:20:36  <glx> svn merge svn:// -r rev:HEAD
02:20:43  <glx> very easy
02:20:47  <Sacro> SmatZ: we do drive on the left here
02:21:05  <glx> the right side is the right side :)
02:21:08  <Ammller> new files will be added, old one deleted and modified modified?
02:21:14  <glx> yes
02:21:32  <glx> you can even get conflicts to resolve
02:21:41  <Ammller> hmm, I will try it again, but it didn't work
02:22:04  <Ammller> and I am sure, I tried it that way
02:22:09  <Ammller> because you told me
02:22:12  <Ammller> :-)
02:23:02  <Ammller> I had files lilke merge.before and .after or soemthing like that
02:23:25  <glx> looks like a conflict
02:24:11  <Ammller> I made a export then
02:26:29  <dih> yes - that is a conflict
02:26:39  <dih> lol
02:26:51  <dih> Ammller: if in doubt, read the svn book
02:26:58  <dih> like everybody else does ;D
02:26:59  <Ammller> that will happen with binaries everytime?
02:27:08  <dih> no
02:28:16  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
02:28:31  <dih> conflicts mainly occure when e.g. you have rev 1 - modify file, Osai co's rev 1 modifies same file - ci to rev 2 and you then try to ci :-)
02:28:45  <dih> i.e. svn does not know what to (correctly) do
02:29:08  <Ammller> well I reverted a version 10 revsions back
02:29:10  <dih> and only conflicts if lines changed touch the lines you have changed
02:29:46  <dih> bed time
02:29:51  <dih> night
02:30:13  <Ammller> as far as I know, its not possible with svn
02:30:27  <Ammller> you would need git then or something like that
02:32:23  <Ammller> glx, do you also not change tags?
02:32:51  <Ammller> just use it as "links" to special revisions?
02:32:57  <dih> Ammller: seriously - read the svn book
02:33:17  <dih> because you are asking questions that are mentioned in that book
02:33:36  <glx> tags are made with svn cp
02:33:46  <Ammller> and never changed after?
02:33:53  <glx> and they are meant to be unmodified
02:33:59  <Sacro>
02:33:59  <dih> if changed, it defeats the purpose of a tag
02:34:03  <Sacro> isn't graphviz cool
02:34:21  <dih> anyhow - bed is calling
02:34:23  <dih> good night
02:34:25  *** dih [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
02:34:34  *** michi_cc [] has joined #openttd
02:34:37  *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ
02:35:49  <Ammller> I ask that, because as I told rubidum, that I just svn up to the same revision as the tag is, he said, Its not good
02:36:29  <glx> tags are tags
02:36:32  <Ammller> then I thought, its possible that you make (minor) changes to tags
02:36:53  <glx> we apply some changes when taging
02:37:04  <Ammller> to trunk
02:37:18  <glx> when commiting the tag
02:37:28  <glx> like fixing revision string
02:37:34  <Ammller> but they are in trunk too?
02:37:37  <glx> no
02:38:02  <Ammller> yeah, so you make changes
02:38:36  <glx> when doing the tag yes, but once it's tagged, it never change
02:38:45  <Ammller> I would like to do that too, but dih sais only read the book :)
02:39:02  <glx>
02:40:05  <Ammller> those points needs manual work?
02:40:13  <glx> yes
02:40:42  <glx> but only if you need to change things before taging
02:41:00  <glx> else you can just do svn cp source dest
02:42:28  <Ammller> well, but you wouldn't add files to tag on tagging?
02:42:50  <Ammller> like readme or remove something, like todo
02:43:03  <glx> readme is in trunk :)
02:46:24  *** Poopsmith [~poop@] has joined #openttd
02:49:21  <Ammller> releases are done by hand, not by compilefarm?
02:49:40  <Ammller> why is that?
02:50:07  <glx> because MSVC is way better for releases
02:50:40  <glx> and we make installers too
02:51:54  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
03:01:44  <Ammller> glx: did gonozal ask if it is possible to use your compilefarm for his patchpack?
03:02:14  <glx> he should ask TB
03:02:26  <Ammller> well, I spoke about that with TB
03:02:26  <glx> I know nothing about the compile farm
03:02:52  <Ammller> he told he can do such things, but he won't until we ask the "official" devs
03:03:57  <Ammller> the compilefarm can automatically checkout a revision and fetch the patch from a given url, patch it and compile...
03:04:31  *** NukeBuster [] has left #openttd []
03:05:28  <Belugas> i do not like the idea
03:06:22  <Belugas> unless if it is for one shot only, like the WWOTTDG or whatever compilation
03:06:27  <Belugas> personnaly
03:06:35  <Ammller> because every self patcher will use that then?
03:07:30  <Ammller> !s/will/want/
03:08:33  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:09:07  <Ammller> its just you have sometimes guys in the forums speak about pbs or something like that and want also use it
03:09:15  *** Zahl [] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
03:09:26  <Ammller> but they use OSX and noone has a bin for him.
03:10:18  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
03:10:36  <glx> any osx user can compile, it's way easier than on windows
03:10:38  <glx> I think
03:11:12  <Ammller> well, windows can use BOTTD
03:11:27  <glx> not for vista
03:11:36  <Ammller> oh
03:12:03  <Belugas> Ammller, not at all.  It's because of the confusion that will come out of it.  As an example, when miniIN was been produced by compile farm, there were a lot of users who tough that we are launching an experimental branch
03:12:08  <Belugas> which was not the case
03:12:17  <Belugas> And i do fear the same will happen
03:12:20  <Belugas> again
03:12:31  <Ammller> yeah, I read that many times in forums
03:13:28  <glx> and we did many miniin sync ourselves because richk didn't understand the changes
03:13:37  <Belugas> yup
03:13:55  <glx> and syncing miniin was a hell
03:14:07  <Ammller> well, that would be needed here
03:14:18  <Ammller> not a branch, just a url to the patch
03:14:18  <glx> (mainly because subsidiaries ;) )
03:14:46  <Belugas> it's nothing against Gonozal_VIII's work.  it is admirable and recommandable.
03:14:57  <Gonozal_VIII> huh, highlight
03:15:43  <Gonozal_VIII> ah..
03:16:20  <glx> oh and compile farm is known to make not runnable osx 10.5 intel binaries
03:16:57  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
03:18:43  <Gonozal_VIII> most people that don't know how to compile are using win32 and forked is hosting binaries for that...
03:18:57  <Gonozal_VIII> so i guess it's ok
03:19:06  <Ammller> or OSX
03:19:45  <Ammller> I even can't use the linux bins
03:20:21  <Ammller> on client and on server, both has a missing lib
03:20:51  <Gonozal_VIII> hmm
03:21:05  <Ammller> not urs
03:21:07  <Ammller> yours
03:21:13  <glx> is it not a wrong version?
03:21:26  <Ammller> glx: yeah
03:21:56  <glx> the best way on linux is to compile yourself :)
03:22:07  <Ammller> well, long time ago, I tried it last time, was while svn was down
03:22:21  <Ammller> and Truelight in vacation
03:23:59  <Ammller> how big would a static linux bin be?
03:24:11  <Ammller> (or how is it called?)
03:24:23  <Ammller> a independent bin
03:29:19  *** divo [] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
03:30:47  *** gfldex [] has joined #openttd
03:32:40  *** gfldex_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:40:53  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
03:41:14  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
03:47:20  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
03:50:16  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
03:50:19  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
03:50:26  *** glx [] has quit []
03:52:51  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
03:52:54  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
03:54:39  <Belugas> night gyus, need to rest
03:57:16  <Poopsmith> night Belugas
04:00:13  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
04:11:52  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
04:15:43  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
04:44:23  *** Osai [] has quit [Quit: Osai]
05:01:18  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:02:05  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
05:08:28  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has joined #openttd
05:30:35  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:31:15  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
05:41:23  *** Jortuny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
05:52:11  *** Poopsmith [~poop@] has quit [Quit: Poopsmith]
05:53:48  *** Singaporekid [] has joined #openttd
06:07:09  *** xerxes [] has joined #openttd
06:07:10  *** shodan [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
06:07:11  *** xerxes is now known as shodan
06:15:13  *** fjb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
06:16:05  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
06:17:24  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
06:44:17  *** dR3x4cK [] has joined #openttd
06:58:51  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
07:01:58  *** roboman [] has joined #openttd
07:01:59  *** roboboy [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
07:04:30  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
07:04:31  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
07:13:09  *** a1270 [] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....]
07:22:35  *** a1270 [] has joined #openttd
07:47:35  *** yorick [] has joined #openttd
08:12:19  *** Poopsmith [] has joined #openttd
08:13:05  *** Ammller [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
08:15:53  *** Poopsmith [] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
08:21:21  *** Poopsmith [] has joined #openttd
08:23:38  *** Poopsmith [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:38:57  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
08:39:09  <Wolf01> hello
08:39:11  *** dR3x4cK [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
08:39:40  *** dR3x4cK [] has joined #openttd
08:39:52  <yorick> hello
08:40:37  <Gonozal_VIII> nobody here
08:44:27  <yorick> nope
08:45:40  <Gekz> 2 - 3 = negative fnu
08:45:41  <Gekz> fun
08:46:03  <yorick> -1
08:46:32  <Gekz> no kid.
08:46:59  <yorick> -2?
08:47:10  <Gekz> 0 = -1
08:47:48  <Gonozal_VIII> ~0
08:48:32  <Gonozal_VIII> or something like that^^
08:49:20  <Gekz> lol
08:49:34  <Gonozal_VIII> 0 = -1 is obviously wrong^^
08:49:44  <Gekz> no.
08:49:50  <Gekz> the test was wrong
08:49:52  <Gekz> :D
08:50:00  <Gekz> they put the x's in the wrong place
08:50:03  <Gekz> so I cancelled them out
08:50:34  <Gonozal_VIII> 0 = -1 is wrong becaus you can't call a variable "0" :-)
08:50:54  <yorick> NULL
08:51:00  <Gonozal_VIII> therefore you can't give that variable the value -1
08:51:18  <yorick> -ONE
08:51:52  <Gonozal_VIII> fyi, null is german for 0
08:52:03  <Gonozal_VIII> that's where that comes from ;-)
08:53:06  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
08:53:11  *** Purno [] has joined #openttd
08:53:18  <yorick> hello Purno
08:53:30  <Purno> ey
08:53:39  <Gonozal_VIII> hi
08:56:38  <yorick> I'm modifying the move patch so it it is desync-proof
09:00:08  *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK
09:00:17  <ln-> Yorick|AFK: NO AWAY NICKS
09:01:41  *** Zuu [] has joined #openttd
09:16:42  *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick
09:16:57  <Yorick> ln- where exactly is that in the rules?
09:17:36  <hylje> unwritten
09:17:39  <hylje> common courtesy
09:17:40  <ln-> common sense
09:18:05  <Yorick> *sheep* *baaah*
09:18:20  <hylje> rams are awesomer than sheep
09:18:43  <Yorick> more awesome*
09:19:04  <hylje> nitpicking
09:19:05  <Yorick> I do not believe in common sense
09:19:30  <ln-> Yorick: the IRC protocol has the away functionality, use that one.
09:20:23  * Yorick ignores ln-
09:20:25  <ln-> Yorick: no one cares if you are AFK or eating or showering or sleeping or in the toilet. no need to publicly announce those.
09:21:12  <Prof_Frink> And a good client will automagically mark you as away when you detach or lock its screen session
09:21:38  <Yorick> automagically?!
09:21:49  <Prof_Frink> yes.
09:22:02  <Prof_Frink> Automatically, with magic.
09:22:22  <Yorick> aha
09:23:42  *** reldred [] has joined #openttd
09:24:14  <ln-> Yorick: you aren't really ignoring me, are you?
09:24:21  <Yorick> ignoring who?
09:37:40  <Gonozal_VIII> let's all ignore everybody, that will be fun :D
09:39:35  <Gonozal_VIII> yay ignoring fungame
09:39:54  <Yorick> yay
09:42:43  * Gonozal_VIII has lots of fun
09:46:42  *** Singaporekid [] has quit []
10:03:37  *** roboboy [] has joined #openttd
10:03:37  *** roboman [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
10:08:04  <Yorick> @base 16 10 0xFF
10:08:04  <DorpsGek> Yorick: 255
10:08:26  <Yorick> why does INVALID_PLAYER equal PLAYER_SPECTATOR?
10:08:28  <Gonozal_VIII> you really needed dorpsgek for that?
10:08:57  <Yorick> to check
10:09:05  * Yorick isn't nfo coder
10:09:07  <Gonozal_VIII> spectator can't own anything
10:09:42  <Yorick> ok, using PLAYER_INVALID as NOT_BEING_MOVED value isn't gonna work that way
10:10:41  <Yorick> but what should I use then?
10:12:11  <Yorick> 9?
10:12:19  <Gonozal_VIII> not being moved?
10:12:24  <Gonozal_VIII> negative stuff sucks
10:12:31  <Gonozal_VIII> bad style :P
10:12:47  <Yorick> you always need a default value...
10:13:19  <ln-> why?
10:13:33  <Gonozal_VIII> default = the rest
10:14:10  <Yorick> if a client is being moved, the server asks for a confirmation to the client, meanwhile, it stores the company in being_moved_to
10:14:52  <Gonozal_VIII> then why would you need a not being moved thingy?
10:15:14  <Yorick> because rule #1, never trust the client
10:15:19  <Gonozal_VIII> every player that's not in being moved to doesn't get moved
10:15:38  <Yorick> no, but he could send a false confirmation
10:15:58  <Gonozal_VIII> then he will desync some time later
10:16:34  <Yorick> no, if he sends a false confirmation, the server has to have a way to know if it has send a request to the client
10:16:56  <Gonozal_VIII> huh?
10:19:54  <Gonozal_VIII> in your system server saves player id, sends request to that player, gets confirmation, compares confirmation with stored player id and then moves... i see no need for any not being moved stuff ther
10:19:56  <Gonozal_VIII> e
10:20:14  <Gonozal_VIII> or did i misunderstand it?
10:21:00  <Yorick> but if client sends confirmation without server sending request, server can't know it and tries to move client
10:21:35  <Yorick> now I think of it, clients have no problem with being moved to spectator when false confirmation
10:22:02  <Gonozal_VIII> why? it just has to look if the player id is the one it saved before
10:22:10  <Yorick> yes
10:22:13  <Yorick> but after that
10:22:24  <Yorick> the client could send another confirmation
10:22:32  <Gonozal_VIII> ah, spectators don't have an id
10:23:02  <Gonozal_VIII> anyways... why should they confirm it?
10:23:22  <Gonozal_VIII> they don't confirm a kick either^^
10:25:11  <Yorick> no, but moving is different
10:25:37  <Gonozal_VIII> why?
10:25:45  <Yorick> if the client sends a command between the change on the server and the change on the client, the server thinks the client is cheating
10:25:55  <Yorick> because it has a different playerid with the docommand
10:26:28  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has joined #openttd
10:26:50  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think that matters
10:27:03  <Yorick> it does
10:27:07  <Gonozal_VIII> that's some split seconds
10:27:13  <Yorick> it does
10:27:19  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
10:27:30  <Yorick> in theory, it could let all other clients desync
10:27:43  <Yorick> which is bad
10:27:47  <Gonozal_VIII> if the client built something in that time it will just appear in the old company
10:27:47  <LordAzamath> hloe
10:28:02  <Yorick> no, Gonozal
10:28:11  <Yorick> it won't
10:28:25  <Yorick> because the server has checks to prevent clients from building in other companies
10:28:57  <Yorick> and if a command gets executed on the client, but not on the server, you get different amounts of random usage
10:29:08  <Gonozal_VIII> well... then don't build when you're moved
10:29:12  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
10:29:28  <Yorick> moving can happan against will
10:29:32  <Yorick> happen*
10:29:36  <Gonozal_VIII> i think the chance is very low
10:30:06  <Gonozal_VIII> and if it happens, the client desyncs and has to join again... not that much of a problem
10:30:10  <Yorick> with slow connections...
10:30:29  <Vikthor> Yorick: Can't you send info before you actually move that client?
10:30:41  <Yorick> thats the way how I do it now
10:30:56  <Gonozal_VIII> or pause the game
10:31:15  <Yorick> Gonozal_VIII: but, if the server has already queued the commands, and then sends them to the clients, while they're invalid...
10:31:46  <Yorick> all clients will refuse to execute that command while the server has already done it, which results in a desync for all clients
10:32:31  <Gonozal_VIII> then drop queued commands of a client if you move it
10:32:48  <Yorick> will result in that client desyncs
10:32:59  <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: I am afraid that will affect Random
10:33:01  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, but won't affect the others
10:33:13  <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: But that's bad design
10:33:41  <Yorick> keeping random things in mind is very difficult, because it's very...random
10:34:08  <Gonozal_VIII> in what situations would you move clients around?
10:34:19  <Gonozal_VIII> without telling them first
10:34:21  <Yorick> in situations where they sabotage companies
10:34:28  <Yorick> cheat
10:34:38  <Gonozal_VIII> and is it really that bad if they desync then?
10:34:51  <Yorick> no, but it is if other clients will
10:35:02  *** divo [] has joined #openttd
10:35:11  <Gonozal_VIII> others won't, if you drop the commands of that client
10:35:44  <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: But then there is now need for moving, you can kick him riht away
10:35:53  <Yorick> that could affect random
10:36:07  <Yorick> because, AFAIK, the commands are already executed on the server
10:36:29  <Gonozal_VIII> the chance that he really sent something in those split seconds is very low imho
10:36:40  <Yorick> it doesn't have to be split seconds
10:37:13  <Yorick> if I was a sabotager that wanted to desync other clients while being moved, I would make auto-bribe-on-move
10:37:57  <LordAzamath> is tyhere any special reason why in TTDP signals face the other way than in OpenTTD?
10:38:12  <Yorick> because you can ajust it in ottd
10:38:14  <Gonozal_VIII> how should he know when he will be moved? he only knows that after it happened
10:38:43  <Gonozal_VIII> what do you mean face the other way la?
10:38:46  <Yorick> Gonozal_VIII: just before the client is moved, he recieves a PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE
10:38:57  <Yorick> for him to disable buttons asap
10:38:57  <Vikthor> Yorick: Just send to the client "you are being moved", wait for him to acknowledge it, procces any commands you got meanwhile and the move him
10:39:13  <Yorick> that is how I do it now
10:39:49  <Vikthor> And where is the problem?
10:39:56  <peter1138> LordAzamath, 'face the other way'? What?
10:40:11  <Yorick> with my new one, there isn't
10:40:20  <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII, the signal which is faced to me is on the other side of rail in TTDP and OTTD
10:40:24  <Yorick> with the old implementation, there is what I just described
10:40:32  <Vikthor> aha
10:40:44  <Gonozal_VIII> there's a signals on driver side patch setting
10:41:00  <LordAzamath> ok.. didn't know :P
10:41:13  <LordAzamath> and it's default in open?
10:41:38  <peter1138> Ah, 'face the other way' is not quite the same is 'on the opposite side'
10:41:57  <LordAzamath> well.. peter1138 signals on one side of rail face the other side :P
10:42:02  <LordAzamath> way**
10:42:23  <SpComb> move who where? :o
10:42:28  <peter1138> Yes, that's not what you said originally ;)
10:42:28  <LordAzamath> you there
10:42:33  <peter1138> The patch option defaults on.
10:42:41  <peter1138> And makes no difference if your drive-side is left.
10:42:45  <peter1138> As it should be.
10:43:01  <Gonozal_VIII> should not
10:43:08  <Yorick> now, there is a problem with my implementation
10:43:08  <Prof_Frink> should too
10:43:13  <peter1138> Also, I've been robbed. My boss gave me his old wireless mouse but the scroll wheel doesn't work properly.
10:43:19  <Gonozal_VIII> only crater people drive left
10:43:36  <Prof_Frink> *greater
10:43:42  <Gonozal_VIII> crater :P
10:43:44  <Yorick> the problem is that clients can choose NOT to send a confirmation
10:43:48  <Yorick> so they can't be moved
10:43:54  <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: You are wrong.
10:44:26  <Gonozal_VIII> yesyes, i know... some strange misleaded other people drive left too
10:44:26  <Vikthor> Yorick: Then set some timeout, after which confirmation is implied
10:44:27  <Prof_Frink> We are English, and therefore right about *everything*.
10:44:55  <SpComb> peter1138: sue him
10:45:06  <peter1138> I shalL!
10:45:12  <Vikthor> Prof_Frink: Would you care to prove it?
10:45:19  <Prof_Frink> I don't need to.
10:45:57  <peter1138> Hmm, maybe setting up a road tranfer from a farm to the nearest station wasn't such a good idea.
10:46:11  <peter1138> The frequent loading has caused the farm's output to explode :o
10:48:01  <Gonozal_VIII> strange, usually trucks have lower rating
10:48:10  <Yorick> Vikthos: how do I set one?
10:49:35  <Vikthor> honestly I do not know, I would have to take deeper look on the protocol
10:50:13  <Yorick> I don't even think its possible
10:50:28  <Yorick> without hacking into loops
10:52:16  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
11:05:22  <LordAzamath> euck.. I hate when TTDPatch gives me crashes
11:05:37  * LordAzamath stays to OpenTTD :P
11:08:53  <peter1138> with
11:09:25  <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, it's a short run, so they're calling often. A train would sit there waiting a while for full-load.
11:09:46  <Gonozal_VIII> rating goes up while loading too
11:12:27  *** roboboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:14:28  <Forked> meep
11:14:41  <Yorick> meep
11:15:40  <Gonozal_VIII> you're meeping
11:18:11  <SpComb> Bjarni!
11:18:23  <Gonozal_VIII> there's no bjarni
11:19:14  <SpComb> that's no reason not to.... Bjarni!
11:19:28  <Gonozal_VIII> there is!
11:19:34  <Yorick> Bjarni!
11:19:35  <Gonozal_VIII> you're violating my copyright
11:20:44  <SpComb> do you mean to say that "Bjarni!" constitutes a copyrightable work?
11:20:58  <SpComb> it's more of a trademark, and afaik nobody has registered it
11:21:02  * SpComb ponders doing so
11:24:32  * peter1138 ponders banning it.
11:24:44  <Yorick> peter1138!
11:24:49  <peter1138> Yes?
11:25:07  <Yorick> please don't
11:25:14  <Yorick> you coudl ban Gonozal_VIII with that
11:25:21  <Gonozal_VIII> :P
11:25:33  <Gonozal_VIII> it's my invention!
11:25:43  <Yorick> havily used on #?
11:27:07  <peter1138> I
11:27:15  <peter1138> I'd only ban annoying people.
11:27:32  <Yorick> am I annoying people
11:27:33  <Yorick> ?
11:29:58  <Gonozal_VIII> only while you're here, the rest of the time you're ok :-)
11:30:25  <Yorick> how do you know?
11:30:47  <Gonozal_VIII> because nobody can see you then :-)
11:34:09  *** Ammller [] has joined #openttd
11:42:54  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
11:58:40  *** SmatZ [] has joined #openttd
11:59:58  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:00:59  *** ThePizzaKing [] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
12:01:27  *** tokai [] has joined #openttd
12:01:31  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
12:03:02  *** Aerandir [] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - -]
12:07:54  *** thgergo [] has joined #openttd
12:14:01  <Yorick> hmm...what shall I set as inactivity limit
12:14:55  <Ammller> devs, I have an idea, how it would be possible to allow rivers.
12:15:33  <Yorick> did you already check the lively rivers draft?
12:15:53  <Ammller> Yorick: do you think that will be in 0.6?
12:16:21  <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think there will be any new feature in 0.6
12:16:37  <Ammller> well rivers is nre, its just buggy
12:16:55  <Yorick> anyone has to make a patch for it first
12:17:06  <Gonozal_VIII> not really buggy... just incomplete
12:17:16  <Ammller> you could make it depense on town names
12:17:39  <peter1138> Ammller:
12:17:41  <Gonozal_VIII> town names? i don't understand what you mean
12:17:44  <Ammller> if you choose "Swiss", its allowed to build rivers.
12:17:52  <Yorick> :o?
12:17:57  <Gonozal_VIII> wtf^^
12:18:17  <Ammller> because reason, why they didn't inlcude it, is "unrealistic".
12:18:34  <Ammller> in our country, its unrealistic to build canals
12:18:53  <Gonozal_VIII> oh... i thought you were german
12:18:53  <Yorick> and it isn't unrealistic to build rivers, you say?
12:19:16  <Gonozal_VIII> sorry for that
12:19:39  <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: :)
12:21:58  <SmatZ> [13:17:44] <Ammller> if you choose "Swiss", its allowed to build rivers. <- :-D
12:22:32  <Ammller> hmm, maybe there are other countries?
12:23:00  <Ammller> I know only Holland and German isn't.
12:26:01  <Gonozal_VIII> a lot of rivers here were turned into canals to get more room...
12:26:44  * peter1138 still wonders what the bugs referred to are...
12:26:57  <Gonozal_VIII> that you can't build rivers ingame
12:27:03  <peter1138> Well that's not a bug.
12:27:09  <Gonozal_VIII> i think that's what he was talking about
12:28:55  <Gonozal_VIII> btw ammler, how do you talk if you talk to germans?
12:29:09  <Ammller> english or german, why?
12:29:40  *** thgergo [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
12:29:41  <Ammller> same as you, I assume :-)
12:29:57  <Gonozal_VIII> well... i guess they could understand 90% or something anyways... just leave out the weird words^^
12:30:28  <Ammller> its not only words
12:31:42  <Gonozal_VIII> what else?
12:31:52  *** thgergo [] has joined #openttd
12:32:11  <Ammller> grammer, but mine isn't documented
12:32:40  <Ammller> I guess, its only possible to lear zÃŒri-swiss-german
12:32:45  <Ammller> learn
12:32:50  <Gonozal_VIII> grammar isn't very important to understand the meaning
12:33:20  <Ammller> well, maybe they just don't want understand us :-)
12:33:28  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
12:33:37  <Yorick> its the difference between man eats dog and dog eats man!
12:33:40  <Gonozal_VIII> it's funny to see swiss tv with german subtitles
12:34:16  <Ammller> well for austria  tis nearly able to understand swiss german
12:34:43  <Ammller> at least for "Voralberg"
12:34:45  <Gonozal_VIII> they talk almost the same in the western part
12:34:52  <Gonozal_VIII> yes
12:35:14  <peter1138> "I helped my uncle Jack off the horse."
12:35:15  <Ammller> you aren't from there, then?
12:35:56  <Yorick> nah, not original, peter1138
12:36:00  <Gonozal_VIII> nope, if you draw a rectangular box around austria, i would be almost exactly in the middle^^
12:36:11  <Gekz> peter1138: you cant help but corrupt our minds
12:36:48  <Gonozal_VIII> you shouldn't use uppercase there peter
12:37:30  <Ammller> hehe KitzbÃŒhl?
12:37:38  <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm not really^^
12:37:58  <Gonozal_VIII> maybe the box thingy is wrong... did never actually check that
12:38:19  <Ammller> oh, I didn't either
12:38:44  <Ammller> but we drove through there many times in past
12:38:56  <Ammller> to go to Lainach (Mölltal)
12:39:19  <Ammller> almost yearly
12:40:07  *** Mark [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
12:41:12  *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@] has joined #openttd
12:43:14  *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@] has quit [Quit: uh oh]
12:43:14  *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
12:44:00  <Gonozal_VIII> checked the rectangle stuff now^^
12:44:29  <Gonozal_VIII> the middle is in salzburg, so a little bit too far west
12:44:32  *** Greysc[a]le [bnc@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
12:44:46  <Gonozal_VIII> and north
12:45:13  <Gonozal_VIII> but not much :-)
12:45:33  <Ammller> Austria is country of openttd INs :-P
12:46:04  <Gonozal_VIII> it's not Gonozal_VIIIIN :P
12:46:46  *** Mark [] has joined #openttd
12:50:35  <Ammller> well, we wait for RC to fix that river bug ;-)
12:50:49  <Yorick> what river bug
12:51:14  <Prof_Frink> *that* river bug.
12:51:15  <Ammller> I am the onlyone, see it that way.
12:51:39  <Ammller> so, I have no chance to have that fixed :-)
12:53:25  <Gonozal_VIII> you have
12:53:29  <Gonozal_VIII> write a patch
12:53:39  <LordAzamath> :o
12:53:48  <Gonozal_VIII> and while you're at it, write the whole lively river stuff ;-)
12:53:51  <Ammller> well, it will not be commited before branch for 0.6 is made
12:53:58  <Prof_Frink> Or, continually annoy peter1138 until it's done.
12:54:13  <Gonozal_VIII> nooooo bad idea
12:54:21  <Gonozal_VIII> that would delay 0.6
12:54:36  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! NewRelease!
12:55:07  <Gekz> SEX
12:55:12  <Ammller> well, not sure what more annoying, asking for fixing a bug or for release :P
12:55:17  <Prof_Frink> That's what she said.
12:55:20  <Gonozal_VIII> yes, bug him about working faster on the release instead
12:55:37  <Vikthor> Ammller: It's not bug it's lack of features
12:55:56  <Ammller> Vikthor: well, its not lack, its too much feature :-)
12:56:48  <Vikthor> Than you see, it's not a bug it's feature :D
12:57:04  *** NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
12:58:07  *** Osai [] has joined #openttd
12:59:07  <Forked> hmm
12:59:32  *** Slowpoke [] has joined #openttd
12:59:53  <Prof_Frink> Oh no, a Llobster!
13:00:51  <Forked> just not used to having hilight triggered here..
13:01:49  * peter1138 tescoinates
13:02:06  <Prof_Frink> TESCO
13:08:56  <Ammller> LordAzamath: did you get Feedback about opengfx from current ps game?
13:09:19  <Yorick> oh noes
13:09:22  <Yorick> a nobster
13:09:25  <Yorick> lobster*
13:10:05  <Yorick> that one should take m out of his quit message
13:10:23  <Yorick> me
13:11:13  <LordAzamath> Ammller, well.. One thing to the thread :P
13:11:32  <LordAzamath> the snow
13:11:44  <LordAzamath> and I don't remember the others :P
13:12:16  <LordAzamath> is it possible to check vehicle speed with var2?
13:12:29  <LordAzamath> actually, make decision based on speed
13:12:33  <LordAzamath> vehicle speed*
13:13:22  <peter1138> Course it is
13:13:30  <peter1138> Assuming you mean varaction 2
13:13:55  <LordAzamath> yes
13:14:03  <LordAzamath> I didn't find it from vehicle info
13:14:08  <peter1138> property 0xB4
13:14:33  <LordAzamath> argh
13:14:42  * LordAzamath never looks to that table
13:15:32  <Patrick`> hmmph
13:22:46  *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40]
13:28:13  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:29:20  *** glx [] has joined #openttd
13:29:22  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
13:33:20  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
13:40:50  *** Greysc[a]le [bnc@] has joined #openttd
14:03:22  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
14:05:14  *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@] has joined #openttd
14:10:44  *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@] has quit [Quit: sploing]
14:10:44  *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
14:11:21  *** Aerandir [] has joined #openttd
14:12:41  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:14:43  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
14:14:45  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
14:30:36  *** glx|away [] has joined #openttd
14:30:39  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ
14:30:52  *** glx is now known as Guest731
14:30:52  *** glx|away is now known as glx
14:37:45  *** Guest731 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:46:05  *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd
14:46:23  *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- Now with extra fish!]
14:48:04  *** UserError [] has joined #openttd
14:51:31  *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40]
14:51:49  *** UserErr0r [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:58:25  *** McHawk [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:59:31  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:01:19  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
15:01:23  *** Ridayah [~ridayah@] has quit [Quit: The Rise and Fall of the Heavens themselves is dependant upon Humanity's belief and disbelief.]
15:02:30  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
15:05:53  *** divo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:11:38  *** dih [] has joined #openttd
15:11:54  <dih> :-)
15:12:26  *** divo [] has joined #openttd
15:13:08  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
15:13:13  <Yorick> hello dih
15:13:42  <dih> hi
15:13:59  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:14:13  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
15:15:58  <Yorick> I've worked out the PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ and PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK things, only thing I need now is a timeout
15:16:15  *** Jortuny [] has joined #openttd
15:19:01  <Yorick> I could for example check, if a DoCommand executing frame is higher than the time the PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ has been sent
15:19:44  <Yorick> or a sync...
15:20:40  <Vikthor> Can't you set the timeout for say 10 frames, or somthing like that?
15:20:47  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:21:07  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
15:21:15  <Yorick> if you tell me how
15:21:58  <dih> Yorick: what do you do on the client
15:22:12  <dih> send a PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK right after it moved itself?
15:22:16  <Yorick> yes
15:22:21  <dih> nice
15:22:31  <dih> so - what if i dont send that packet?
15:22:43  <Yorick> ..., only thing I need now is a timeout....
15:22:44  <dih> what happens if i 'timeout'
15:23:02  <Yorick> the move will be sent to the other clients and executed on the server
15:23:33  <dih> after timeout?
15:23:36  <Yorick> yes
15:23:49  <dih> then set timeout to the amount of frames a client may be slow
15:24:08  <Yorick> I do not even know how to set the timeout
15:24:34  <Yorick> something with the frameloop
15:24:38  <Yorick> probably ^^
15:27:47  <Yorick> I'll find out ^^
15:29:13  *** UserError [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
15:32:00  <Yorick> pff...I need to know how to count from 1 to 10 in chinese before tomorrow
15:32:20  <Gonozal_VIII> that's easy
15:32:34  <Yorick> is it?
15:32:35  <Gonozal_VIII> you start at the chinese 1 and stop at the chinese 10
15:32:47  <Gonozal_VIII> :-)
15:33:04  <Yorick> I need to know how to write and say all numbers in a range from 1 to 10
15:33:21  <Gonozal_VIII> pff google it
15:33:42  <SmatZ> yeah
15:33:47  <Yorick> I have it in front of me
15:33:54  <Gonozal_VIII>
15:33:59  <Yorick> I only need to write them now
15:34:50  <Yorick> ? :o
15:35:21  <Yorick> I can't copy them :(
15:35:48  <Gonozal_VIII> there's even an animation how to draw it
15:36:29  <Yorick> I know how to draw them, but remembering it is something totaly else when you're not chinese
15:38:10  <Yorick> %E6%8D%8C :o
15:46:14  *** Wezz6400 [] has joined #openttd
15:47:33  *** UserError [] has joined #openttd
15:47:56  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:48:21  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has joined #openttd
15:49:16  <dih> CS:S players here?
15:49:45  <Gonozal_VIII> [16:46:44] <Gonozal_VIII> anyways, japanese is way cooler than chinese
15:49:47  <Yorick> that is a dangerous question
15:50:02  <Yorick> I now have a satanic version of me hunting me
15:50:17  <Yorick> no its not, Gonozal_VIII
15:50:22  <Gonozal_VIII> is too!
15:50:45  <Gonozal_VIII> all those anime are in japanese!
15:50:52  <Yorick> true
15:51:01  <Yorick> Chinese don't make stupid anime
15:51:17  <Gonozal_VIII> stupid :O
15:51:25  <SmatZ> chinese make fine cloathes
15:51:30  <Yorick> ok, say some anime that is not stupid
15:52:22  <Gonozal_VIII> megami-sama :D
15:52:41  *** fjb [] has joined #openttd
15:52:44  <dih> stupid
15:52:46  <fjb> Hello
15:52:50  <SpComb> Logs:
15:52:50  <fjb> !logs
15:52:52  <dih> :-)
15:53:03  <Gonozal_VIII> naaaaaah belldandy ftw!
15:54:59  <fjb> <sing> I like chinese, they only grow up to your knees </sing>
15:55:21  <Yorick> true
15:55:34  <Patrick`> mmm
15:55:46  <Yorick> the longest people on earth compared to the shortest :)
15:55:59  <Yorick> its like a sea of black hair
15:57:15  <fjb> Hm, the train reversing (push / pull service) has a big design flaw. :-(
16:04:09  <glx> fjb: it is newgrf dependant
16:04:53  <Ammller> hoja, does that already work in ottd?
16:05:13  *** Gonozal_VIII [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:05:17  <fjb> Has the grf the ability to reverse the whole train? I thought it can only exchange the sprites of the first and last vehicle in a train.
16:05:28  <fjb> Ammller: It does.
16:05:33  <Yorick> :o
16:05:38  <Yorick> since?
16:05:49  <Ammller> so you have a "hacked" canadian set?
16:05:59  <fjb> No.
16:05:59  <Ammller> or is there an other set?
16:06:02  <fjb> Yes.
16:06:04  <glx> the grf can do that if it tests the right things
16:06:15  <Yorick> since?
16:06:23  <Ammller> fjb: and which one :-)
16:06:36  <glx> Yorick: since var FE bit 8 is implemented
16:06:37  <fjb> The UKRS exchanges first and last vehicle and turns that vehicles around.
16:06:51  <Yorick> oh, that one
16:07:23  <fjb> But the wagons beside the first and the last in the train still reverse.
16:09:50  <fjb> A push/pull train entering a terminal station with the locomotive first leaves it with the locomotive last and the driving wagon first. But the other wagons in the train still behave like the not push pull trains. At least that is the behavioour of UKRS.
16:11:46  <fjb> Put a wagon with a different color in the train, not as the first or last wagon, but also not as the middle of the train, so that the train looks asymetrical. You see that onle locomotive and driving wagon exchange places.
16:12:29  <fjb> A different colored wagon in the last part of the train jumps to the first part of the train then.
16:12:53  *** dih [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
16:14:16  <fjb> Can the GRF fix that? Or is that a flaw of the of the var FE bit 8 specification?
16:22:07  *** dih [] has joined #openttd
16:24:25  *** Jortuny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:26:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it should be done totally different
16:26:40  <Eddi|zuHause> most natural way would be a negative speed...
16:27:54  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
16:28:48  *** lolman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the game urgently needs to get rid of the concept of a "front engine"
16:30:07  <Eddi|zuHause> there is a "front" and an "engine", they don't need to coincide
16:31:34  <glx> <fjb> Can the GRF fix that? Or is that a flaw of the of the var FE bit 8 specification? <-- a grf can fix it I think, like it does for the first and last
16:31:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it is horribly complicated
16:32:26  <glx> lot of action 2 :)
16:35:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the purpose of a grf is for the designer not to need to know about the implementation... this feature totally fails that design principle
16:35:46  *** Jortuny [] has joined #openttd
16:35:51  *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
16:36:50  <Ammller> fjb: maybe you should "hack" canada train set and look how it works on openttd
16:36:54  <Eddi|zuHause> what the grf feature really needs is a flag "this vehicle can be at the front of a train" and "this vehicle has speed limit X when driving forwards, and Y when driving backwards"
16:38:05  <Ammller> "this vehicle can be at the front of a train" <-- is that needed?
16:38:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you cannot drive a train backwards unless it has a steering wagon at the other end
16:39:10  <Eddi|zuHause> the next natural extension would be a flag "this engine has shunting ability" [removing the requirement of the steering engine, but possibly reduced speed and different signalling rules]
16:39:19  *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
16:40:27  *** Mark [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:41:16  *** LordAzamath [] has joined #openttd
16:53:36  *** NukeBuster [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
16:57:28  *** NukeBuster [] has joined #openttd
17:03:00  <Slowpoke> if I play whith some ECS-VEctor-grfs, what trainset is best to use? (eg. for transporting automobiles etc.)
17:03:28  <LordAzamath> DBset with ECS extension I guess
17:04:19  <Patrick`> yo
17:04:31  <Patrick`> any cheese monkeys here?
17:04:31  <Slowpoke> okay thanks
17:04:34  <Patrick`> it seems like the most european of my channels
17:04:56  <Patrick`> vivre la vie francais, "live the french life". I know what it literally means, but is it a phrase that means something else?
17:06:47  <LordAzamath> hmm.. Is there any special reason why the original terrain generator gives exactly one half of map above snowline and the other half below? (diagonally.. snow line height set to 7)
17:07:24  <LordAzamath> I know that it uses that method in sub-tropical to make a desert/river/rainforest area..
17:07:30  <LordAzamath> but why in arctic?
17:07:33  <Yorick> because exactly half of the map is above 7?
17:07:50  <Yorick> because arctic is set to mountainious?
17:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAzamath: forests may only appear above snow line, this method was used to ensure that there was significant area of snow
17:09:05  <LordAzamath> hmm..
17:09:10  <LordAzamath> it looks reallly weird
17:09:21  <LordAzamath> I set it to 13 now
17:09:31  <Yorick> that's why we have terragenisis?
17:09:37  <Patrick`> it's over 9000!
17:09:42  * LordAzamath wanted original :P
17:10:12  <Eddi|zuHause> LordAzamath: it is inherited from the original game
17:10:25  <Patrick`> mmm, francais
17:10:34  <LordAzamath> k
17:10:51  <LordAzamath> in that case I didn't want original :P
17:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> so if you want a real reason (instead of my, let's call it "edjucated guess"), you have to ask chris sawyer
17:12:06  *** Mark [] has joined #openttd
17:15:06  <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah.. Perhaps he can submit a fix to it.. //ironic
17:16:33  <Patrick`> does the man himself actually know we exist?
17:16:41  <Patrick`> ... does he idle on IRC?
17:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i am pretty certain he does
17:17:32  <Eddi|zuHause> if by "we" you mean "the openttd project"
17:17:47  <LordAzamath> Patrick`: I'm pretty sure he knows approximatly how many people exist, so maybe he doesn't know you to exist.. But some of us for certain
17:18:58  <LordAzamath> sry for too much TTDP activity, but I'm not in a mood for compiling today :P.. And I didn't get answer from #tycoon
17:19:00  <LordAzamath> >	what is the switch in ttdpatchw.cfg to allow building on steep slopes?
17:19:13  <Yorick> building_on_slopes?
17:19:17  <Yorick> but is it possible?
17:19:40  <Yorick> ctrl-f trpe slopes
17:19:40  <LordAzamath> I thought so..
17:20:17  <LordAzamath> autoslope
17:20:21  <LordAzamath> buildonslope
17:20:44  <LordAzamath> but neither of the allows to build on steep slopes..
17:20:56  <Yorick> who said anything about steep?
17:21:50  <Yorick> dih: I'm wondering, where should I store the temporary moving data?
17:22:29  <fjb> Ammller: Sorry, I was away from the computer. The licence of the Canadian Set explicitly forbids hacking the set.
17:23:12  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
17:24:40  <fjb> Slowpoke: DBset + ECS extension has some disadvatages. UKRS has better ECS compatibility, so does the Serbian Set.
17:26:34  * hylje thinks fjb is a slowpoke :-)
17:26:52  *** Tekky [] has joined #openttd
17:26:53  <LordAzamath> slow...poke indeed
17:27:20  * fjb wasn't at the computer the last hour and is still catching up the channel.
17:27:39  <hylje> hence
17:28:47  *** Diabolic1Angel [] has joined #openttd
17:29:04  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:32:15  <Yorick> "if (!ci->being_moved) return; /* The client was never about to be moved;client is a cheetah; so ignore him */"
17:35:21  <Ammller> fjb: well, hacking and distribut
17:36:02  <Ammller> but you need just to remove the action which does make error because of openttd and use it for yourself
17:36:18  <Ammller> dalestand self mentioned somethng like that
17:37:26  <Ammller> you can hack everything as long ans noeone else does catch you ;-)
17:38:44  <Yorick> experience?
17:39:04  <Ammller> buh, no, I am a user :)
17:39:19  <Ammller> "only"
17:42:16  <Yorick> I still don't get, you have a nice and shiny client_lang, next to fill it with NETLANG_ANY for every client :(
17:44:10  *** McHawk [] has joined #openttd
17:44:47  *** Diabolic1Angel is now known as Diabolic-Angel
17:45:47  <peter1138> 16:36  Eddi|zuHause> yes, you cannot drive a train backwards unless it has a  steering wagon at the other end
17:45:53  <peter1138> Trains need *steering*?
17:46:44  <fjb> I could hack it, but I think even hacking without distribution is explicitly forbidden.
17:47:27  <Yorick> nope
17:47:28  <fjb> And why should I use a set when the creator doesn't want me to use it? There are many other nice sets around.
17:48:12  * fjb has seen trains getting pushed with out a steering wagon.
17:48:35  <Yorick> what is the problem with keeping STATUS_INACTIVE sometimes?
17:51:56  <fjb> Ammller: Modifications to code (NFO) is not permitted.
17:52:58  <peter1138> You can modify OpenTTD though...
17:54:12  <fjb> Hm, modify OpenTTD to disguise as TTDP? :-)
17:54:23  <Ammller> fjb: should I do it for you?
17:55:00  <fjb> Ammller: No, I respect the authors wish and don't want to play that set.
17:55:12  <Ammller> ah, was a joke
17:55:44  <Ammller> would be too complicated for me anyway
17:56:48  <fjb> I don't think is would be that coplicated. You only have to do advanced pattern matching. The way I'm patching OpenTTD without understanding the source code. :-)
17:57:10  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
17:58:30  <Ammller> yeah, Dalestan already explained it at the canada set
17:58:33  <Ammller> thread
17:59:31  <Yorick> dih: could you give me some help?
18:01:01  <Yorick> [19:00] <@dih> !password <-- I take that as a no :)
18:01:10  <dih> what you need?
18:01:36  <Yorick> I wonder: 1.where I should store the moving timeout
18:01:43  <Yorick> much it should be
18:02:02  <Yorick> _frame_counter + NetworkCalculateLag(NetworkFindClientStateFromIndex(client_index)) is not enough, I think
18:02:13  <dih> Yorick: cannot help you there
18:02:27  <Yorick> :(
18:03:12  <Yorick> I'll make it "lag * 3"
18:04:28  * LordAzamath does some homework now.. cu
18:04:50  <Yorick> cu
18:04:57  <Yorick> have fun :p
18:08:45  <fjb> Can anybody invent drive through railway depots, please?
18:09:44  <Tefad> i really like the pocket universe in depots
18:10:09  <Tefad> where'd those to 100 car trains go? ohhh they're both in this depot
18:10:14  <Prof_Frink> Someone should make a GRF where the depots are blue
18:10:19  <Prof_Frink> With a light on top
18:10:35  <Prof_Frink> And "POLICE CALL BOX" on the side
18:10:38  <Tefad> also i meant to type two.
18:10:58  <LordAzamath> Prof_Frink: Gimme graphics :P
18:11:08  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
18:11:09  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
18:11:09  <LordAzamath> ooh.. I had to do homework :O
18:11:14  <LordAzamath> Bjarni!
18:11:21  <fjb> That is kind of a problem actually. I have a depot which likes to "eat" trains. Trains arriving at the depot are keeping the others trains from leaving that depot.
18:11:22  <Yorick> bjarni!
18:13:12  <Bjarni> anybody in here admitting to being Swedish?
18:13:29  <dih> hey there
18:15:08  <Sacro> Bjarni!
18:15:18  <Bjarni> ...
18:15:20  <Sacro> i was swedish yesterday
18:15:26  <Bjarni> do you admit to being Swedish?
18:15:40  <Sacro>
18:15:42  <Sacro> Ja
18:16:11  <Bjarni> fint... jeg skal bruge en svensk telefonbog. Har du et link?
18:17:33  *** Jortuny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:17:35  <Yorick> :)
18:17:44  <Yorick> the move patch timeout finally works
18:17:46  <peter1138> SacrÞ
18:17:53  <Bjarni> no reply...
18:20:07  <Bjarni> dammit
18:20:40  <Bjarni> one of the rare occasions where I need this channel to give some info then nobody can say anything useful :(
18:23:38  <Yorick> <-- :O at quote #8 for dutch people
18:25:42  <LordAzamath> haha Yorick  You are the last there :P
18:25:45  <Bjarni> it would appear that I'm talking about a picture of a steam locomotive
18:25:52  <Yorick> at least I'm in there
18:26:11  <Yorick> to* ^^
18:27:58  <LordAzamath> Yorick: I'm in there too... In the next table :P
18:28:44  <guru3> well i'll be
18:28:53  <guru3> people do check those pages
18:29:12  <Yorick> some
18:29:17  <Yorick> !stats
18:29:22  <Yorick> no stats
18:29:33  <peter1138> Bjarni, sorry, we're OpenTTD players, not steam buffs...
18:29:38  <glx> @stats
18:29:38  <DorpsGek> glx: I have 6 registered users with 6 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins.
18:29:47  <Yorick> make stats appear there, and all will visit that page
18:29:50  <Yorick> @channel stats
18:29:50  <DorpsGek> Yorick: Error: 'supybot.stats' is not a valid configuration variable.
18:30:13  <Yorick> @config search stats
18:30:13  <DorpsGek> Yorick: supybot.plugins.ChannelStats, supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.public, supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.selfStats, supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.smileys, and supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.frowns
18:30:22  <Bjarni> peter1138: there is a fair chance that I'm replying to a picture somebody else posted
18:30:32  <Roujin> lol, "patch" is place 10 on most used words ^^
18:30:43  <Yorick> @config plugins.ChannelStats
18:30:43  <DorpsGek> Yorick: True
18:31:04  <LordAzamath> Roujin: Look at the persons who used that word :P
18:31:12  <Yorick> poor I :(
18:31:26  <LordAzamath> glx, dih, ammler..... those words*
18:31:46  <dih> wtf?
18:31:49  <LordAzamath> sorry for highlightnign
18:32:02  <Yorick> dih: while you're here, the timeout works :)
18:32:03  <dih> ^^
18:32:09  <dih> good
18:32:18  <Yorick> I'll upload a screen
18:32:55  <Yorick>
18:33:59  <Bjarni> moving on when it gets a timeout?
18:34:10  <Bjarni> isn't that usually a "don't do this"?
18:34:16  <Yorick> no
18:34:27  <Yorick> because clients could then block moving
18:35:57  <Bjarni> what is it that timesout?
18:37:32  <Yorick> the patch sends a PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ to the client, client moves self, sends PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK, server moves client for every other client
18:37:53  <Yorick> but, if client ignore PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ, client fails to be moved
18:37:55  <SmatZ> Yorick: why do you need to confirm it by client?
18:38:10  <Yorick> because otherwise clients could desync
18:38:39  <SmatZ> are you sure about it?
18:38:40  <Yorick> long story, d1h knows how to explain :)
18:38:48  <Bjarni> then wouldn't you have the desync issue on timeout?
18:39:00  <Yorick> yes
18:39:15  <dih> lol - this is cute
18:39:23  <Bjarni> cute?
18:39:29  <Yorick> have to run for dinner now
18:39:32  <Yorick> cya :)
18:39:34  <peter1138> So they can desync or they can desync? Hmm
18:39:39  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:39:54  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:40:05  <dih> no
18:40:19  <dih> his idea was that a client gets a move request
18:40:25  <dih> and the server a move confirmation
18:40:41  <dih> so that there is time to process any docommands in between
18:40:48  <dih> (which i am not sure is a good idea)
18:41:24  <dih> move is move - if client likes it or not
18:41:46  <dih> just that if the server does a move, and the client a docommand
18:41:52  <dih> before the client was updated
18:41:59  <dih> -> out
18:42:05  <dih> kick for invalid packet :-P
18:42:15  <Bjarni> wouldn't it be better to make the server make a command telling the clients to move the client at tick X?
18:42:50  <dih> would be better yes
18:42:58  <dih> but docommands address companies, not clients
18:44:09  <ln-> Bjarni!!
18:44:43  <LordAzamath> ln-: You are VERY late...
18:45:01  <ln-> LordAzamath: i know, i was watching a documentary of the Wright brothers
18:45:41  <LordAzamath> those guys who made the plane?
18:45:56  <fjb> Bye
18:46:01  *** fjb [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:46:02  <LordAzamath> cu
18:46:46  <ln-> the ones
18:47:36  <ln-> now watching: Eesti Televisioon
18:47:36  *** dih [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:47:59  <LordAzamath> ln-: What comes there?
18:48:26  <ln-> some show that looks exactly like the finnish Uutisvuoto.
18:48:48  * LordAzamath checks
18:49:02  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:49:05  <LordAzamath> oo.. teletaip :P
18:49:13  *** Frostregen [] has joined #openttd
18:51:02  <LordAzamath> generally, I don't watch ETV...
18:51:16  <LordAzamath> only some cultural programs mostly
18:51:19  <LordAzamath> are there
18:51:41  <ln-> generally, I don't either, because generally it's not visible.
18:52:24  <LordAzamath> hehe
18:52:41  <LordAzamath> it has the srrongest signal in Estonia though
18:52:52  <ln-> it's on cable here
18:52:52  <LordAzamath> so I guess parts of Finland can reach it
18:53:06  <LordAzamath> k
18:55:16  <LordAzamath> mai gaawd... /me has yet to have completed some homework..
18:55:28  <LordAzamath> and I totally forgot it
18:55:31  <LordAzamath> now
18:55:50  <LordAzamath> :(
18:56:11  <LordAzamath> one A4 page full of some russian text to retell :o
18:56:44  * Slowpoke has to write a poem :(
18:56:56  *** Arie^ [] has joined #openttd
18:57:27  <LordAzamath>   /me would usually laugh over Slowpoke but won't do it today, because shares the same fate of awful homework
18:57:34  <LordAzamath> :O
18:57:36  <Slowpoke> do I have to do something special to get the serbian trainset?
18:57:48  <LordAzamath> yea..
18:57:57  <LordAzamath> download it, install it..
18:57:59  <Roujin> yes, stand on your head and sing a lullaby
18:58:20  <LordAzamath> lullaby lullaboo lull... Ouch.. I fell
18:58:26  <Slowpoke> I ment something special compared to other grfs
18:58:30  <Roujin> shush LA, don't make fun of people by telling them nonsensical instructions >:(
18:58:51  <Slowpoke> since it shows a empty warning all the time
18:59:11  <LordAzamath> shush Roujin, don't give them right instructions
18:59:28  <LordAzamath> x(
19:00:26  *** TinoM [] has joined #openttd
19:00:38  *** Arie- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:00:41  * Slowpoke tried that stand-on-head-thing but failed, now uses UKRS
19:01:19  <LordAzamath> You have to have a full triangle between your hands, shoulders and head...
19:01:37  <LordAzamath> It's way easier to stand on head that way;P
19:01:42  <ln-> mÀrtsi pommittamisest 64 aastat, hmm
19:01:47  <LordAzamath> true
19:01:59  <LordAzamath> one t though
19:02:05  <LordAzamath> :P
19:05:23  <ln-> eesti geoloogiakeskuse geoloog
19:05:42  <LordAzamath>
19:05:55  <LordAzamath> :O
19:06:16  <LordAzamath> ln-: ?
19:06:20  *** Gonozal_VIII [Gonozal_VI@] has joined #openttd
19:06:28  <ln-> watching news
19:06:36  <Gonozal_VIII> nope
19:06:44  <ln-> yes
19:06:49  <Gonozal_VIII> am not!
19:06:55  <ln-> objection!
19:07:02  <ln-> am yes
19:07:02  <Prof_Frink> overruled!
19:07:09  <Gonozal_VIII> hehe
19:07:30  <LordAzamath> :O
19:07:39  <LordAzamath> how come you are not invited?
19:08:03  <LordAzamath> now better
19:08:14  <Patrick`> ln is argentinian?
19:08:18  <LordAzamath> yes
19:08:28  <LordAzamath> aren't you?
19:08:32  <LordAzamath> :)
19:08:33  <Gonozal_VIII> northern part
19:08:52  <ln-> saksa soturit
19:09:05  <ln-> sounds funny
19:09:13  <LordAzamath> sõdurid not soturit
19:09:33  <LordAzamath> or sõdurit.. depends on context
19:09:48  <Gonozal_VIII> Saksan sotureita: Hermann Göring
19:09:49  <Patrick`> mmm, prawns
19:09:51  <Gonozal_VIII> huh
19:11:00  *** lolman [] has joined #openttd
19:20:55  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:21:22  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
19:33:44  *** dR3x4cK [] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
19:34:53  *** Jortuny [] has joined #openttd
19:37:24  <Yorick>
19:37:49  <Yorick> now let the comments arrive!
19:38:05  <Yorick> dev's seem to have a highlight on "dev's" :)
19:39:06  <Gonozal_VIII> gepauzeerd^^ what a strange word
19:39:30  * Sacro slaps Yorick for apostrophe abuse
19:39:46  <Yorick> grr
19:41:01  <Yorick> translation fo' paused
19:41:14  <peter1138> Quite.
19:41:17  * Vikthor slaps Sacro for slap abuse
19:41:28  <Sacro> :(
19:41:49  <Yorick> Quite what?
19:42:41  <peter1138> Apostrophe abuse.
19:42:51  <Sacro> A BUG A BUG A BUG
19:43:12  <Sacro> peter1138: can you check your pbs server
19:43:31  <Sacro> 0x97B3 onwards is a tram route
19:43:32  <Yorick> you all seem to notice my apotsroph abuse, but not my patch:(
19:43:34  <Sacro> but nobody owns it
19:44:14  * peter1138 moves to other machine...
19:44:30  <Sacro> i must have gone bankrupt, but my tramlines still exist
19:44:31  *** LordAzamath [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox]]
19:44:32  <peter1138> Yarly, this one.
19:44:34  <Sacro> can other companies use them?
19:44:41  <Sacro> i must admit
19:44:50  <Sacro> Hull still has 100 year old tram tracks from years gone by
19:45:00  <Sacro> but they did remove the catenary ;)
19:46:01  * Yorick needs attention
19:46:23  *** Haxonic [] has joined #openttd
19:46:34  <peter1138> Hmm.
19:47:57  <Yorick> I am not entirely sure about "generic action chat message"
19:48:11  *** Jortuny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:49:18  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:49:25  <peter1138> Sacro, they can be shared, apparently.
19:53:27  *** UFO64 [] has joined #openttd
19:53:39  <Sacro> peter1138: really? :o
19:54:02  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
20:04:17  *** Gekz [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:09:55  *** Haxonic [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:11:51  <peter1138> Hmm
20:12:05  <Yorick> .
20:12:59  *** caladan [] has joined #openttd
20:12:59  <Bjarni> good point
20:15:13  <Yorick> Bjarni: can't you take a look at it, and include it, crediting dih and me?
20:15:13  <ln-> Bjarni: what about this one: ·
20:15:20  <Yorick> '!
20:15:36  <Yorick> .·'!
20:15:38  <Bjarni> take a look at what?
20:15:41  <Bjarni> your '?
20:15:47  <Yorick>
20:16:54  <Yorick> .·'/.·'/'·.\'·.\'·.
20:17:19  <Bjarni> are you making a parody of perl or something?
20:17:28  <Yorick> uh?
20:17:53  <Prof_Frink> parody?
20:17:57  <Yorick> perl?
20:19:23  <Yorick> why?
20:19:34  <Bjarni> one-word-sentences?
20:19:49  <Yorick> where?
20:19:56  <Bjarni> here
20:20:22  <Yorick> where-here?
20:20:30  <Prof_Frink> ban?
20:20:49  <Bjarni> ok
20:21:03  <Prof_Frink> bugger.
20:21:04  <Yorick> no
20:24:58  *** Yorick [] has quit [Quit:  Always remember nothing.]
20:25:14  *** bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
20:27:28  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
20:32:05  <ln-> i'm sensing a local maximum point in the quality of discussion.
20:33:36  <hylje> you imply you can derive the discussion
20:34:09  <Bjarni> discussion?
20:34:20  <Bjarni> where?
20:34:40  *** UFO64 [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:41:19  *** Jortuny [] has joined #openttd
20:42:30  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:47:07  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
20:49:10  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:54:03  *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:56:14  <Wolf01> 'night
20:56:18  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:57:25  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
21:04:28  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07:08  *** Jortuny [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:10:41  *** glx|away [] has joined #openttd
21:10:44  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ
21:11:06  *** glx is now known as Guest757
21:11:06  *** glx|away is now known as glx
21:17:05  *** Guest757 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:19:42  *** dR3x4cK [] has joined #openttd
21:20:35  *** Chrill [] has joined #openttd
21:21:28  <Chrill> Hey! I've got a simple question. What font is it in the OpenTTD main screen? ( ) / Is it downloable anywhere? :)
21:21:50  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
21:22:02  *** jp [] has joined #openttd
21:22:10  <glx> Chrill: they are sprites
21:22:47  <Chrill> Ah, okay. Thanks :)
21:25:36  <peter1138> Hmm, an old shot that still says that long title...
21:26:17  <Bjarni> and no mentioning of the version either
21:26:28  *** Diabolic-Angel [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
21:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause> aaaaargh... jpeg!!
21:28:47  *** Roujin [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- It'll be on slashdot one day...]
21:30:08  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:30:29  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
21:31:58  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:33:50  <Chrill> Bjarni and peter1138, i just googled xD
21:34:31  <Bjarni> should that make it better?
21:34:54  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:36:42  <ln-> mr. zuHause is right, jpeg is not for screenshots!
21:37:53  <Sacro> nor is your mum
21:38:22  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
21:38:42  <Patrick`> custom font
21:46:10  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:46:20  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
21:48:29  *** jp [] has quit [Quit: jp]
21:57:35  <Chrill> Bjarni, it doesn't make it better, it just makes it easier to blame Sacro for something he never actually did
21:59:36  <Sacro> ?
21:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you go through all that trouble when you could just blame sacro for anything he did
22:00:00  <Sacro> :(
22:01:10  <Bjarni> Chrill: why would you blame Sacro for that jpg?
22:01:27  <Bjarni> for once I actually side with Sacro
22:01:36  <Bjarni> your statement makes no sense
22:01:53  *** thgergo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:01:55  <Bjarni> if we blame Sacro for something then it should make sense to blame Sacro
22:05:18  <Chrill> Bjarni, check out the bug report I just.. reported.. in the bugs..
22:05:21  <Chrill> thing..
22:06:35  <Chrill> I can recreate that without even having to think, really
22:11:03  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:11:54  <glx> Chrill: please provide the crash.dmp too
22:13:16  *** markmc [] has joined #openttd
22:14:23  <SmatZ> ah, Chrill is here
22:14:25  <SmatZ> :-x
22:14:46  <Chrill> the crash.dmp is auto-generated, yes?
22:14:57  <glx> yes
22:15:01  <Chrill> kk, one sec
22:16:00  *** Ammller [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:16:45  *** Ammller [] has joined #openttd
22:17:12  <ln->
22:17:32  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
22:17:37  *** a1270 [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:19:48  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:22:15  <Chrill> There we go, glx
22:23:21  <SmatZ> hmm it can have something to do with your custom title screen
22:23:31  <SmatZ> btw, pngs are way better than jpgs
22:23:33  <glx> what's wrong with ctrl-s?
22:24:00  <Chrill> SmatZ, the pic quality is due to me shrinking it, not due to jpg use
22:24:04  <SmatZ> doesn't work in title screen
22:24:14  <Chrill> and yes, that
22:24:28  <Bjarni> goodnight
22:24:30  *** Bjarni [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
22:24:30  <SmatZ> and it is still 1,2MB in size :)
22:24:36  <Chrill> buttcrap
22:24:39  <glx> open console and type "screenshot no_con" IIRC
22:24:40  <Chrill> i mean.. oh
22:24:57  <Chrill> Well I was not aware of that, sorry. Let me try and recreate it without the title screen
22:25:06  <Chrill> Can i simply remove opntitle.dat?
22:25:29  <SmatZ> you can (but backup your current file :)
22:25:38  <Chrill> Hm... I think I encountered another problem
22:25:42  <Chrill> Or rather
22:25:47  <Chrill> the bug being something else than reported
22:26:13  <Chrill> Someone get an opntitle.dat using NewGRFs.. Then open the NewGRF list, anywhere, in title screen too.. When closing, it will crash
22:26:25  <Chrill> as it would (in older versions) simply remove all GRFs from the title screen
22:26:55  <glx> known, don't use newgrfs in intro
22:29:38  *** a1270 [] has joined #openttd
22:31:55  <glx> and your bug is related to that
22:32:10  <Chrill> Yeah, exactly
22:32:37  <glx> when you close the window, the current (as in the one in your cfg) grf list is restored
22:33:29  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
22:33:37  *** llugo [] has joined #openttd
22:34:12  <Chrill> yeah, and that's where the crash occurs now (did not in pre-0.6.0)
22:34:34  <glx> pre-0.6.0 didn't have action F support
22:34:50  <Chrill> not that I know what Action F is but you're the expert, im just the player :P
22:34:52  <glx> and action F support needs loading grfs in intro
22:35:04  <glx> action F is townname
22:35:08  <Chrill> ooh
22:36:00  *** dR3x4cK [] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
22:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> but there should be a newgrf sandbox for the title screen game...
22:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> or the main menu
22:38:16  <Chrill> Crash is not occuring when using an opntitle.dat without NewGRFs :P
22:40:21  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: very hard to do as grfs are loaded globally
22:40:29  *** lugo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:42:02  *** divo [] has quit [Quit: Quitting]
22:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, the game could use a general overhaul of global variables... [i.e. pass references instead]
22:46:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> with that, you could quite easily generate a new "game environment"
22:46:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> without destroying the existing one
22:49:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> it would also remove the need of some... "hacks"... (like the existance of "_patches" and "_patches_newgame")
22:51:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> you could instead have "running_game.patches", "new_game.patches" and "title_game.patches"
22:51:26  <peter1138> instead of two, have three!
22:51:48  <peter1138> no need for title_game
22:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, they could be the same, just called differently
22:52:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the fun with passing references, you can call them differently in each function
22:52:42  * SmatZ references -> pointers :)
22:53:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> "pointers" [in the C++ sense] are just an implementation of "references" [in the abstract sense]
22:54:05  <SmatZ> how do you call "void f(int &x)" then?
22:55:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> "references in the C++ sense?"
22:55:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> [as opposed to the abstract concept]
22:56:02  *** Zavior [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
22:56:44  <SmatZ> that's not really practical :-x
22:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> the only difference is that one makes it possible to get low-level access to the representation of the reference [which might not be a good idea in all cases]
22:57:04  <peter1138> Neither is passing pointers around everywhere.
22:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> i just wanted to say that global variables are bad... not that the other ways would be better in all cases
23:00:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> and that having references to an environment would make it quite trivial to create sandbox environments
23:02:31  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: I do not agree with you, but you are free to try to rewrite OTTD to use references / pointers instead of global variables ... then we can measure the speed of program and the code readability
23:04:08  *** bumblebee [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:07:14  *** bumblebee [] has joined #openttd
23:09:26  *** Nemesis [] has joined #openttd
23:11:34  <Chrill> Well im off
23:11:44  <Chrill> cya lot, thanks for the help with finding the problem, glx
23:12:05  *** hal [] has joined #openttd
23:12:14  *** Chrill [] has quit [Quit: Once Upon a time in XeryusTC's pants]
23:12:16  *** shodan [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:12:16  *** hal is now known as shodan
23:12:48  *** lolman [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
23:13:11  *** caladan [] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:15:23  *** bumblebee [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:15:33  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:16:23  *** Zealotus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:21:23  *** NukeBuster|laptop [] has joined #openttd
23:30:40  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
23:42:46  *** Slowpoke_ [] has joined #openttd
23:50:03  *** Slowpoke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:50:38  *** Dr_Jekyll [] has joined #openttd
23:50:54  <Dr_Jekyll> hi...
23:51:04  <Dr_Jekyll> i'm a bit confused
23:51:35  <Dr_Jekyll> i was searchin the forum for a while but i can't find a answer for my question
23:51:47  <glx> just ask here
23:52:26  <Dr_Jekyll> is there a "set up daylength option" for the current beta 0.6.0b5?
23:53:00  <glx> no
23:53:09  <glx> you need to apply a patch and compile
23:53:38  <Dr_Jekyll> coding knowldge is as worst as my english
23:54:22  <Dr_Jekyll> but there is a posibility to get this option back, do i understand right?
23:56:15  <glx> this option never been in openttd
23:56:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> Dr_Jekyll: there is a custom build of Gonozal_VIII, including this patch
23:59:02  <Dr_Jekyll> hm not in openttd? i'm not sure which version it was i just remember that an option like this "exists"
23:59:20  <glx> miniin had it IIRC

Powered by YARRSTE version: svn-trunk