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00:23:39 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 00:30:12 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:14 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499F0B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:31:55 *** jez [galactic@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 00:51:31 * peter1138 mumbles as Exchange grinds to a half. 00:51:35 <peter1138> Er, a halt. 00:57:56 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB457B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 00:58:23 *** Leviath [~thomas@vdburgt.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:47 <Ammller> hmm, client desyncs if I try to build rivers on a server which is not patched :( 01:10:17 <SmatZ> :-) 01:10:39 <SmatZ> OTTD is protected against hacked clients 01:10:50 <Ammller> if (p2 != 0 && _game_mode != GM_EDITOR) return CMD_ERROR; <-- I feat, that line is quilty 01:11:48 <Ammller> SmatZ: well, devs, said, they don't include things, because it uses more cpu usage 01:13:03 <SmatZ> Ammller: like building of rivers is disabled in an active game because it would use more CPU? 01:13:54 <Ammller> yeah, that must be the reason, isn't? 01:13:56 <SmatZ> I think it is a bit unrealistic to "build" river (I would even disable bulldozing it) 01:14:21 <SmatZ> one can use canals / locks instead 01:14:44 <Ammller> well, that depense only of people 01:14:50 <Ammller> of goverment 01:15:10 <Ammller> in our country is almost impossible to build canals, today 01:15:47 <Ammller> its other way you bulldoze canals and build rivers, but I know, you see it other way 01:15:48 <glx> but you can build rivers? 01:16:36 <Ammller> maybe you can just set a mulitplicator for rivers of 10 or so? 01:17:47 <Ammller> could you at least remove that "hacker" prevention? 01:18:21 <Ammller> well, maybe after release of 0.6.0 :-) 01:19:00 <SmatZ> I think there can be changes regarding lakes/rivers/canals after 0.6.0, yes :) 01:19:06 <SmatZ> but sure not now 01:19:27 <Ammller> oh, of course, I see companies planting trees all the time here... 01:20:25 <SmatZ> planting a tree is something different that routing a water source to your place 01:20:46 <Ammller> we call it "Renaturalisieren" 01:20:56 <Ammller> don't know a english word for that 01:21:36 <SmatZ> there has to be water source somewhere... 01:21:47 <Ammller> snow? 01:21:48 <SmatZ> it is in the hands of "god", the creator of scenario 01:21:53 <SmatZ> maybe... 01:22:13 <Ammller> well, what happen with snow? 01:22:18 <SmatZ> but during the game, it would be strange if players could start a river anywhere in the map 01:22:20 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:22:30 <SmatZ> snow sublimates :-P 01:22:40 <Ammller> well, think about MP mode 01:22:59 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 01:23:00 <Ammller> in sp mode you can quickly switch to scenario editor and play god 01:23:13 <Ammller> but its even harder to do that in MP mode 01:23:14 <dih> Ammler? 01:23:19 <dih> what nees restricting? 01:23:42 <Ammller> dih: I alredy changed 01:23:46 <dih> ah - ok 01:24:12 <Ammller> well, is it possible to restrict anonymous access to revsions less then rX? 01:24:22 <dih> revisions - no 01:24:27 <dih> paths - yes 01:24:41 <dih> perhaps with svn 1.5 01:24:43 <dih> :_) 01:24:43 <Ammller> I changed anonymous access to tags only 01:24:50 <dih> oh? 01:25:03 <dih> why is that? 01:25:17 <Ammller> because you shouldn't checkout a old grf 01:25:48 <dih> why not? 01:26:01 <Ammller> thats why GRFs authors don't like if you host their GRFs 01:26:05 <dih> if i have access to tags i have access to older revisions 01:26:16 <Ammller> they like to have only newest releases around... 01:26:41 <Ammller> well, we have to discuss it further 01:26:45 *** Zuu [~leif@c-363c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:26:58 <Ammller> It might need to restrict it for old tags too later 01:27:08 <dih> well - in worse case tags will not be ok then either 01:27:13 <dih> but 01:27:17 <dih> in all honesty 01:27:25 <Ammller> of course, the newest one 01:27:34 <dih> i am not entierly sure they can restrict usage of their grf's like that 01:28:02 <Ammller> well, its not question if the can do it, they like to do it 01:28:10 <Ammller> thats enough, we have to respect that 01:28:19 <dih> but then they like to see their grfs spread also 01:28:36 <SmatZ> can GRF author forbid using his GRF in openttdcoop GRF pack? if so, then it is better not to make him upset :) 01:28:57 <dih> you could see it both ways 01:29:06 <SmatZ> dih: true 01:29:10 <dih> i.e. openttdcoop on the more desperate side 01:29:16 <dih> in need of grfs 01:29:33 <dih> or the auther in need of having people using his/her/its grfs 01:29:47 <dih> and thus in need of openttdcoop's grfpack 01:29:53 <SmatZ> it is about "supply and demand" of grfs :) 01:30:00 <dih> as a source of making his/her/its work more popular 01:30:16 <dih> it would have to be a really really good one 01:30:18 <Ammller> well, its not that we deleted old grfs 01:30:21 <dih> to make me desperate ^^ 01:30:31 <dih> it's in svn 01:30:41 <dih> we cannot delete 01:30:46 <Ammller> :) 01:30:52 <Ammller> well, you can... 01:30:55 <dih> no 01:30:57 <dih> you cannot 01:31:06 <dih> you can break the database 01:31:18 <dih> but you cannot decently remove a file from svn 01:31:26 <Ammller> hmm, there is something like a clean repo 01:31:53 <Ammller> which you can let them remove deleted files older then something, not? 01:32:13 <Ammller> I thought, I did read that somewhere 01:32:47 <Fujitsu> dih: You can dump it, manually remove any trace of the file, then reimport it, which is properly removing it, albeit an unnoticeable hack. 01:32:57 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 01:33:16 <Ammller> Fujitsu: I guess, there is a "simple" svn command for doing that 01:33:38 <Fujitsu> I don't know of one. 01:33:55 <Fujitsu> I doubt they'd want to make it easy, as it is very evil. 01:34:17 <glx> the goal of a version control system is to keep trace of all changes 01:34:21 <Fujitsu> Exactly. 01:34:32 *** dih [~dihedral@dslb-088-066-135-075.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:35:30 <Fujitsu> If you don't want to keep track of changes to the GRFs, what were they doing in a VCS in the first place? 01:35:54 <Ammller> who said that? 01:36:29 <Fujitsu> You're wanting to remove access to old versions, aren't you? 01:36:37 <Ammller> access for anonymous 01:36:47 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd 01:36:56 <Ammller> I still need old revisions for making update packs 01:36:57 <Fujitsu> Whatever happened to being open? 01:36:59 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:38:35 <Ammller> Fujitsu: some GRF Authors don't like it, if you use old grfs with bugs or glitches or whatever 01:38:48 <Fujitsu> I'd say that's their problem... 01:39:08 *** dih [~dihedral@dslb-088-066-150-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 01:39:21 <Ammller> no, I don't like to annoy them 01:39:38 <dih> TrueBrain and i just setup a CS:S server and had some very funny games 01:39:53 <Ammller> counterstrike? 01:39:54 <Fujitsu> So we need non-free GRFs to play the most open multiplayer game of an open source game? 01:40:13 <dih> most open? 01:40:24 <dih> and we do not net non-free grfs atm? 01:40:32 <Ammller> well, the most GRFs arei indeed not GPL'd 01:40:46 <dih> what are they? 01:40:53 <Fujitsu> I'd say the no old versions restriction is a nasty restriction on distribution. 01:41:00 <Ammller> they are just hmm, they are just 01:41:06 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 01:41:12 <dih> yes? 01:41:19 <Ammller> yes, they are 01:41:31 <dih> gpl? 01:41:36 <Ammller> even not 01:41:51 <dih> 'eben nicht' 01:41:57 <Ammller> I know the usset and jpset, which are 01:41:59 <dih> does not really translate that way ^^ 01:42:25 <dih> that is quite imporant 01:42:34 <Ammller> you can see it in GRF_Table at our page, which are 01:43:07 <Ammller> most GRFs are more closed then the original grfs :P 01:43:45 <Ammller> (no, it isn't that bad) 01:44:14 <dih> why do we support that? 01:44:27 <Fujitsu> I am wondering the same. 01:45:02 <dih> for another thing: are there no loopholes? 01:45:04 <Ammller> well, you won't use dbsetxl? 01:45:34 <dih> worst case scenario 01:45:35 <dih> ok 01:45:41 <dih> but we can make pressure 01:45:58 <Ammller> well, try it 01:46:07 <dih> i.e. either grfpack, or restricted license 01:46:09 <dih> authors choice 01:46:15 <Ammller> force all to make their GRFs opensource 01:46:21 <dih> no 01:46:41 <dih> force all to not restrict in a way that limits our distribution 01:46:54 <Ammller> nobody does that... 01:47:03 <dih> then whats wrong with old versions? 01:47:13 <Ammller> I know only one GRF, which I we not allowed to distribute 01:47:25 <dih> which one? 01:47:33 <Ammller> Oskars Bridge 01:47:35 *** Dominik [~Dominik@dslb-084-063-079-179.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:41 <Ammller> well, he might have more grfs... 01:47:46 <Diabolic-Angel> Thats quite a sad tendency.. 01:48:09 <Ammller> huh? 01:48:09 <dih> so all other grf's have no issues with us having old versions? 01:48:23 <dih> gtf athors rather 01:48:37 <Ammller> of couse, I guess, everyone would 01:49:22 <dih> then we dont need to fobit anon access to trunk/ of the grfpack 01:49:23 <Ammller> all have no problems with distributing as long as we only distribute the current one, which would also be downloadalbe from their pages 01:49:40 <dih> that is what i just asked about 01:50:07 <dih> that is what limits the distribution 01:50:12 <Ammller> but why should you need the possibitly to download a old version of a grf? 01:50:23 <dih> save games? 01:50:27 <Ammller> what does that help us? 01:50:41 <Ammller> no the grfs are backwards compatible, mostly 01:50:45 <Fujitsu> Ammller: Why should you need to modify OpenTTD? 01:50:48 <dih> our old published save games 01:50:50 <Fujitsu> Should modification be banned? 01:51:08 <dih> ? 01:51:12 <Ammller> ? 01:51:47 <Ammller> go to the devs and complain about a bug in openttd 0.4.8 01:51:51 <Fujitsu> Ammller: YOu suggest that because you shouldn't need to download old versions of a GRF, you shouldn't be able to. 01:52:07 * SmatZ thinks about "no copy&paste in openttdcoop games" restriction... everyone has restrictions... 01:52:31 <Ammller> SmatZ: we have much more 01:52:31 <dih> nono 01:52:41 <dih> that is clearly against the usage of pasting junktions 01:52:45 <Ammller> every 2. tile a signal 01:52:48 <Ammller> etc.... 01:52:57 <dih> those are building guide lines 01:53:18 <dih> dont mix the style of building with the distribution of software 01:53:57 <dih> 2 diff things 01:54:26 <Ammller> dih: try to download suse 5.0 01:54:38 <dih> i have it at home 01:54:50 <Ammller> or go to a shop to buy windows 3.1 01:55:15 <Ammller> or soon windows xp 01:55:28 <dih> again 01:55:28 <Gonozal_VIII> xp is better than vista 01:55:38 <Fujitsu> And *nobody* *anywhere* has complained that Windows XP is vanishing. Of course not. 01:55:41 <SmatZ> well... you can buy "used" windows 01:55:41 <dih> buying software from a reseller aint = buying software 01:56:12 <Ammller> there are many reasons not to distribute old versions 01:56:34 <Ammller> most important is to reduce support because of using it 01:56:59 <dih> being available in svn does not mean supported 01:57:46 <Ammller> well, as I said, I didn't delete it 01:58:47 <dih> well - you cannot ^^ 01:58:51 <Fujitsu> You just effectively tried to delete it. 01:59:02 <Ammller> SmatZ: do you know, how openttd does store the svn repo? 01:59:06 <Ammller> in fs or db? 01:59:43 <dih> Ammller: i would advise not mucking around in either of svn repository types 02:00:04 <SmatZ> Ammller: I have no clue 02:00:20 <Ammller> :D 02:00:30 <Ammller> I was just wondering 02:01:20 <Ammller> I don't have that much faith in dbs... :-) 02:01:53 <SmatZ> neither do I :) 02:02:07 <dih> well - berkely - no 02:02:09 <SmatZ> I would guess db would be slower 02:02:12 <dih> fsfs is pretty good 02:02:20 <SmatZ> but... who knows (I don't) 02:02:34 <dih> there is a comparison on the svn book 02:02:37 <Ammller> but we use berkley, don't we? 02:03:44 <dih> nope 02:03:45 <dih> fsfs 02:04:09 <dih> default setting 02:05:41 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485BE2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:06:53 <Ammller> I guess, I had that in mind, as I thought about "cleaning": Purging unused Berkeley DB logfiles 02:07:36 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-81-173-178-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:08:10 <Fujitsu> The logs are DB binary logs. They very probably don't store the Subversion history. 02:08:51 <dih> if it were that simple 02:09:01 <dih> deleting revisions files and whatnot 02:09:05 <dih> from a svn repository 02:09:13 <dih> theey probably would have implemented it 02:09:24 <dih> dont you think? 02:09:30 <Fujitsu> Why would they implement it? 02:09:40 <Fujitsu> It defies the point of any VCS. 02:09:45 <Ammller> for saving space? 02:10:41 <Fujitsu> You want to cull history just to save space? That's a very restricted use case. 02:10:51 <Ammller> after 10000 revision, you don't need every single revsion below 1000 anymore 02:10:58 <Fujitsu> Why not? 02:11:06 <dih> read their docs 02:11:08 <Fujitsu> I saw a fix for r3xxx a few days ago. 02:11:17 <dih> you will be given at least one scenario where it is of use 02:11:38 <SmatZ> sure you need with OTTD 02:12:21 <SmatZ> @commit 12166 02:12:23 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by smatz :: r12166 /trunk/src (4 files) (2008-02-17 12:21:05 UTC) 02:12:24 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix [FS#337]: when drag&drop mode was cancelled by keyboard input, depot/group window wasn't updated (original patch by GrimRC) 02:12:39 *** fjb [~frank@p5485DCB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:12:44 <SmatZ> errr 02:12:57 <Ammller> :-) 02:13:57 <Ammller> same as with backups, after sometime you keep only monthly or yearly backups 02:14:05 <SmatZ> @commit 12097 02:14:05 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by glx :: r12097 trunk/src/vehicle.cpp (2008-02-10 05:21:08 UTC) 02:14:06 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r654, r1525): loading old, pre savegame version 2, savegames. 02:14:22 <SmatZ> fixing two bugs in revisions older than 10000 :) 02:14:31 <Ammller> @commit 654 02:14:31 <DorpsGek> Ammller: Commit by tron :: r654 /trunk (13 files) (2004-11-17 08:52:47 UTC) 02:14:32 <DorpsGek> Ammller: Hopefully complete support for randomized variational spritegroups (i.e. the cars transporter in DBSetXL gets different cars each time) (pasky) 02:15:08 <Gonozal_VIII> action 2 for action a? 02:15:15 <Ammller> and why was it helpful to keep that revision? 02:15:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 02:15:21 <Gonozal_VIII> ah 02:15:36 <Gonozal_VIII> old... 02:15:36 <SmatZ> to see what else was changed in that revision 02:15:47 <Fujitsu> Ammller: The same reason you have it for any other revision. 02:15:59 <Ammller> Fujitsu: which is? 02:16:12 <SmatZ> @commit 11982 02:16:12 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by frosch :: r11982 trunk/src/oldloader.cpp (2008-01-25 13:54:27 UTC) 02:16:13 <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Revert (r8738): Now we have shores in corners. No need to remove them from TTDP games. 02:16:29 <dih> if you could just dump old data like that to save space, suggest to the devs to make a new svn repo starting at r10000 :-D 02:16:31 <SmatZ> reverting 3000 old revision 02:16:52 <Ammller> SmatZ: how did you revert 02:16:54 <Ammller> ? 02:16:56 <Fujitsu> Ammller: So I can see why some change was introduced. So I can see who introduced it. So I can see what it was changed from. 02:17:18 <Fujitsu> So I can revert to the revision before and see that it was, in fact, that revision that blew up the world. 02:17:21 <Ammller> well, its another thing when you work with code 02:17:30 <SmatZ> Ammller: I don't know, maybe taking the diff and applying it with -N or so... 02:17:46 <glx> svn merge -c -rev 02:17:46 <Ammller> not merge? 02:17:52 <Ammller> :-) 02:18:07 <Sacro> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=52.390897,-0.549204&spn=0.002115,0.006904&t=k&z=18 02:18:08 <Ammller> merge doesn't work with files 02:18:13 * SmatZ has no skills whatsoever 02:18:41 <glx> Ammller: how do you think we sync branches? 02:19:08 <SmatZ> people driving on the left road side, scary :-/ 02:19:31 <Fujitsu> SmatZ: Most sane countries do that, I'm afraid. 02:19:33 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 02:19:39 <Ammller> well, I don't think its taht easy :) 02:19:58 <dih> read the svn book ^^ 02:20:31 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> oxygen.oftc.net quits: +michi_cc 02:20:36 <glx> svn merge svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk -r rev:HEAD 02:20:43 <glx> very easy 02:20:47 <Sacro> SmatZ: we do drive on the left here 02:21:05 <glx> the right side is the right side :) 02:21:08 <Ammller> new files will be added, old one deleted and modified modified? 02:21:14 <glx> yes 02:21:32 <glx> you can even get conflicts to resolve 02:21:41 <Ammller> hmm, I will try it again, but it didn't work 02:22:04 <Ammller> and I am sure, I tried it that way 02:22:09 <Ammller> because you told me 02:22:12 <Ammller> :-) 02:23:02 <Ammller> I had files lilke merge.before and .after or soemthing like that 02:23:25 <glx> looks like a conflict 02:24:11 <Ammller> I made a export then 02:26:29 <dih> yes - that is a conflict 02:26:39 <dih> lol 02:26:51 <dih> Ammller: if in doubt, read the svn book 02:26:58 <dih> like everybody else does ;D 02:26:59 <Ammller> that will happen with binaries everytime? 02:27:08 <dih> no 02:28:16 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 02:28:31 <dih> conflicts mainly occure when e.g. you have rev 1 - modify file, Osai co's rev 1 modifies same file - ci to rev 2 and you then try to ci :-) 02:28:45 <dih> i.e. svn does not know what to (correctly) do 02:29:08 <Ammller> well I reverted a version 10 revsions back 02:29:10 <dih> and only conflicts if lines changed touch the lines you have changed 02:29:46 <dih> bed time 02:29:51 <dih> night 02:30:13 <Ammller> as far as I know, its not possible with svn 02:30:27 <Ammller> you would need git then or something like that 02:32:23 <Ammller> glx, do you also not change tags? 02:32:51 <Ammller> just use it as "links" to special revisions? 02:32:57 <dih> Ammller: seriously - read the svn book 02:33:17 <dih> because you are asking questions that are mentioned in that book 02:33:36 <glx> tags are made with svn cp 02:33:46 <Ammller> and never changed after? 02:33:53 <glx> and they are meant to be unmodified 02:33:59 <Sacro> http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bottles99graphvizdotus6.png 02:33:59 <dih> if changed, it defeats the purpose of a tag 02:34:03 <Sacro> isn't graphviz cool 02:34:21 <dih> anyhow - bed is calling 02:34:23 <dih> good night 02:34:25 *** dih [~dihedral@dslb-088-066-150-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:34 *** michi_cc [9fe4bd22f1@dude.icosahedron.de] has joined #openttd 02:34:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ 02:35:49 <Ammller> I ask that, because as I told rubidum, that I just svn up to the same revision as the tag is, he said, Its not good 02:36:29 <glx> tags are tags 02:36:32 <Ammller> then I thought, its possible that you make (minor) changes to tags 02:36:53 <glx> we apply some changes when taging 02:37:04 <Ammller> to trunk 02:37:18 <glx> when commiting the tag 02:37:28 <glx> like fixing revision string 02:37:34 <Ammller> but they are in trunk too? 02:37:37 <glx> no 02:38:02 <Ammller> yeah, so you make changes 02:38:36 <glx> when doing the tag yes, but once it's tagged, it never change 02:38:45 <Ammller> I would like to do that too, but dih sais only read the book :) 02:39:02 <glx> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/To_do_for_releases 02:40:05 <Ammller> those points needs manual work? 02:40:13 <glx> yes 02:40:42 <glx> but only if you need to change things before taging 02:41:00 <glx> else you can just do svn cp source dest 02:42:28 <Ammller> well, but you wouldn't add files to tag on tagging? 02:42:50 <Ammller> like readme or remove something, like todo 02:43:03 <glx> readme is in trunk :) 02:46:24 *** Poopsmith [~poop@202.180.121.90] has joined #openttd 02:49:21 <Ammller> releases are done by hand, not by compilefarm? 02:49:40 <Ammller> why is that? 02:50:07 <glx> because MSVC is way better for releases 02:50:40 <glx> and we make installers too 02:51:54 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:44 <Ammller> glx: did gonozal ask if it is possible to use your compilefarm for his patchpack? 03:02:14 <glx> he should ask TB 03:02:26 <Ammller> well, I spoke about that with TB 03:02:26 <glx> I know nothing about the compile farm 03:02:52 <Ammller> he told he can do such things, but he won't until we ask the "official" devs 03:03:57 <Ammller> the compilefarm can automatically checkout a revision and fetch the patch from a given url, patch it and compile... 03:04:31 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 03:05:28 <Belugas> i do not like the idea 03:06:22 <Belugas> unless if it is for one shot only, like the WWOTTDG or whatever compilation 03:06:27 <Belugas> personnaly 03:06:35 <Ammller> because every self patcher will use that then? 03:07:30 <Ammller> !s/will/want/ 03:08:33 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:09:07 <Ammller> its just you have sometimes guys in the forums speak about pbs or something like that and want also use it 03:09:15 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F32DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 03:09:26 <Ammller> but they use OSX and noone has a bin for him. 03:10:18 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 03:10:36 <glx> any osx user can compile, it's way easier than on windows 03:10:38 <glx> I think 03:11:12 <Ammller> well, windows can use BOTTD 03:11:27 <glx> not for vista 03:11:36 <Ammller> oh 03:12:03 <Belugas> Ammller, not at all. It's because of the confusion that will come out of it. As an example, when miniIN was been produced by compile farm, there were a lot of users who tough that we are launching an experimental branch 03:12:08 <Belugas> which was not the case 03:12:17 <Belugas> And i do fear the same will happen 03:12:20 <Belugas> again 03:12:31 <Ammller> yeah, I read that many times in forums 03:13:28 <glx> and we did many miniin sync ourselves because richk didn't understand the changes 03:13:37 <Belugas> yup 03:13:55 <glx> and syncing miniin was a hell 03:14:07 <Ammller> well, that would be needed here 03:14:18 <Ammller> not a branch, just a url to the patch 03:14:18 <glx> (mainly because subsidiaries ;) ) 03:14:46 <Belugas> it's nothing against Gonozal_VIII's work. it is admirable and recommandable. 03:14:57 <Gonozal_VIII> huh, highlight 03:15:43 <Gonozal_VIII> ah.. 03:16:20 <glx> oh and compile farm is known to make not runnable osx 10.5 intel binaries 03:16:57 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm 03:18:43 <Gonozal_VIII> most people that don't know how to compile are using win32 and forked is hosting binaries for that... 03:18:57 <Gonozal_VIII> so i guess it's ok 03:19:06 <Ammller> or OSX 03:19:45 <Ammller> I even can't use the linux bins 03:20:21 <Ammller> on client and on server, both has a missing lib 03:20:51 <Gonozal_VIII> hmm 03:21:05 <Ammller> not urs 03:21:07 <Ammller> yours 03:21:13 <glx> is it not a wrong version? 03:21:26 <Ammller> glx: yeah 03:21:56 <glx> the best way on linux is to compile yourself :) 03:22:07 <Ammller> well, long time ago, I tried it last time, was while svn was down 03:22:21 <Ammller> and Truelight in vacation 03:23:59 <Ammller> how big would a static linux bin be? 03:24:11 <Ammller> (or how is it called?) 03:24:23 <Ammller> a independent bin 03:29:19 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:30:47 *** gfldex [~dex@dslb-088-074-137-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:32:40 *** gfldex_ [~dex@dslb-088-074-174-006.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:40:53 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@89.246.176.213] has joined #openttd 03:41:14 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:47:20 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.189.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:50:16 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 03:50:19 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 03:50:26 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 03:52:51 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 03:52:54 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 03:54:39 <Belugas> night gyus, need to rest 03:57:16 <Poopsmith> night Belugas 04:00:13 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB5C8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:11:52 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:15:43 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:23 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB5C8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Osai] 05:01:18 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:02:05 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 05:08:28 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-235-235.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 05:30:35 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N932P012.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:31:15 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N880P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 05:41:23 *** Jortuny [~octernion@r253186120.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:52:11 *** Poopsmith [~poop@202.180.121.90] has quit [Quit: Poopsmith] 05:53:48 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm41.epsilon124.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 06:07:09 *** xerxes [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has joined #openttd 06:07:10 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:07:11 *** xerxes is now known as shodan 06:15:13 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BE2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:05 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N880P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:17:24 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N880P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 06:44:17 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:58:51 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-151-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 07:01:58 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 07:01:59 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:30 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-172-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:04:31 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 07:13:09 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Quit: The ending changes tone & is actually quite sad - but it involves a scene of necrophilia, so that's just another plus in my book.....] 07:22:35 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 07:47:35 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 08:12:19 *** Poopsmith [~poop@124-197-37-77.callplus.net.nz] has joined #openttd 08:13:05 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-150-170.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:15:53 *** Poopsmith [~poop@124-197-37-77.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:21:21 *** Poopsmith [~poop@124-197-37-77.callplus.net.nz] has joined #openttd 08:23:38 *** Poopsmith [~poop@124-197-37-77.callplus.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:57 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host44-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 08:39:09 <Wolf01> hello 08:39:11 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:40 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:39:52 <yorick> hello 08:40:37 <Gonozal_VIII> nobody here 08:44:27 <yorick> nope 08:45:32 <Gekz> OH GOD A DOUBLE NEGATIVE 08:45:40 <Gekz> 2 - 3 = negative fnu 08:45:41 <Gekz> fun 08:46:03 <yorick> -1 08:46:32 <Gekz> no kid. 08:46:59 <yorick> -2? 08:47:10 <Gekz> 0 = -1 08:47:48 <Gonozal_VIII> ~0 08:48:32 <Gonozal_VIII> or something like that^^ 08:49:20 <Gekz> lol 08:49:34 <Gonozal_VIII> 0 = -1 is obviously wrong^^ 08:49:44 <Gekz> no. 08:49:50 <Gekz> the test was wrong 08:49:52 <Gekz> :D 08:50:00 <Gekz> they put the x's in the wrong place 08:50:03 <Gekz> so I cancelled them out 08:50:34 <Gonozal_VIII> 0 = -1 is wrong becaus you can't call a variable "0" :-) 08:50:54 <yorick> NULL 08:51:00 <Gonozal_VIII> therefore you can't give that variable the value -1 08:51:18 <yorick> -ONE 08:51:52 <Gonozal_VIII> fyi, null is german for 0 08:52:03 <Gonozal_VIII> that's where that comes from ;-) 08:53:06 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 08:53:11 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 08:53:18 <yorick> hello Purno 08:53:30 <Purno> ey 08:53:39 <Gonozal_VIII> hi 08:56:38 <yorick> I'm modifying the move patch so it it is desync-proof 09:00:08 *** yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK 09:00:17 <ln-> Yorick|AFK: NO AWAY NICKS 09:01:41 *** Zuu [~leif@c-363c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 09:16:42 *** Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick 09:16:57 <Yorick> ln- where exactly is that in the rules? 09:17:36 <hylje> unwritten 09:17:39 <hylje> common courtesy 09:17:40 <ln-> common sense 09:18:05 <Yorick> *sheep* *baaah* 09:18:20 <hylje> rams are awesomer than sheep 09:18:43 <Yorick> more awesome* 09:19:04 <hylje> nitpicking 09:19:05 <Yorick> I do not believe in common sense 09:19:30 <ln-> Yorick: the IRC protocol has the away functionality, use that one. 09:20:23 * Yorick ignores ln- 09:20:25 <ln-> Yorick: no one cares if you are AFK or eating or showering or sleeping or in the toilet. no need to publicly announce those. 09:21:12 <Prof_Frink> And a good client will automagically mark you as away when you detach or lock its screen session 09:21:38 <Yorick> automagically?! 09:21:49 <Prof_Frink> yes. 09:22:02 <Prof_Frink> Automatically, with magic. 09:22:22 <Yorick> aha 09:23:42 *** reldred [~reldred@d58-104-48-175.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 09:24:14 <ln-> Yorick: you aren't really ignoring me, are you? 09:24:21 <Yorick> ignoring who? 09:37:40 <Gonozal_VIII> let's all ignore everybody, that will be fun :D 09:39:35 <Gonozal_VIII> yay ignoring fungame 09:39:54 <Yorick> yay 09:42:43 * Gonozal_VIII has lots of fun 09:46:42 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm41.epsilon124.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [] 10:03:37 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:03:37 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:04 <Yorick> @base 16 10 0xFF 10:08:04 <DorpsGek> Yorick: 255 10:08:26 <Yorick> why does INVALID_PLAYER equal PLAYER_SPECTATOR? 10:08:28 <Gonozal_VIII> you really needed dorpsgek for that? 10:08:57 <Yorick> to check 10:09:05 * Yorick isn't nfo coder 10:09:07 <Gonozal_VIII> spectator can't own anything 10:09:42 <Yorick> ok, using PLAYER_INVALID as NOT_BEING_MOVED value isn't gonna work that way 10:10:41 <Yorick> but what should I use then? 10:12:11 <Yorick> 9? 10:12:19 <Gonozal_VIII> not being moved? 10:12:24 <Gonozal_VIII> negative stuff sucks 10:12:31 <Gonozal_VIII> bad style :P 10:12:47 <Yorick> you always need a default value... 10:13:19 <ln-> why? 10:13:33 <Gonozal_VIII> default = the rest 10:14:10 <Yorick> if a client is being moved, the server asks for a confirmation to the client, meanwhile, it stores the company in being_moved_to 10:14:52 <Gonozal_VIII> then why would you need a not being moved thingy? 10:15:14 <Yorick> because rule #1, never trust the client 10:15:19 <Gonozal_VIII> every player that's not in being moved to doesn't get moved 10:15:38 <Yorick> no, but he could send a false confirmation 10:15:58 <Gonozal_VIII> then he will desync some time later 10:16:34 <Yorick> no, if he sends a false confirmation, the server has to have a way to know if it has send a request to the client 10:16:56 <Gonozal_VIII> huh? 10:19:54 <Gonozal_VIII> in your system server saves player id, sends request to that player, gets confirmation, compares confirmation with stored player id and then moves... i see no need for any not being moved stuff ther 10:19:56 <Gonozal_VIII> e 10:20:14 <Gonozal_VIII> or did i misunderstand it? 10:21:00 <Yorick> but if client sends confirmation without server sending request, server can't know it and tries to move client 10:21:35 <Yorick> now I think of it, clients have no problem with being moved to spectator when false confirmation 10:22:02 <Gonozal_VIII> why? it just has to look if the player id is the one it saved before 10:22:10 <Yorick> yes 10:22:13 <Yorick> but after that 10:22:24 <Yorick> the client could send another confirmation 10:22:32 <Gonozal_VIII> ah, spectators don't have an id 10:23:02 <Gonozal_VIII> anyways... why should they confirm it? 10:23:22 <Gonozal_VIII> they don't confirm a kick either^^ 10:25:11 <Yorick> no, but moving is different 10:25:37 <Gonozal_VIII> why? 10:25:45 <Yorick> if the client sends a command between the change on the server and the change on the client, the server thinks the client is cheating 10:25:55 <Yorick> because it has a different playerid with the docommand 10:26:28 *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 10:26:50 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think that matters 10:27:03 <Yorick> it does 10:27:07 <Gonozal_VIII> that's some split seconds 10:27:13 <Yorick> it does 10:27:19 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 10:27:30 <Yorick> in theory, it could let all other clients desync 10:27:43 <Yorick> which is bad 10:27:47 <Gonozal_VIII> if the client built something in that time it will just appear in the old company 10:27:47 <LordAzamath> hloe 10:28:02 <Yorick> no, Gonozal 10:28:11 <Yorick> it won't 10:28:25 <Yorick> because the server has checks to prevent clients from building in other companies 10:28:57 <Yorick> and if a command gets executed on the client, but not on the server, you get different amounts of random usage 10:29:08 <Gonozal_VIII> well... then don't build when you're moved 10:29:12 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 10:29:28 <Yorick> moving can happan against will 10:29:32 <Yorick> happen* 10:29:36 <Gonozal_VIII> i think the chance is very low 10:30:06 <Gonozal_VIII> and if it happens, the client desyncs and has to join again... not that much of a problem 10:30:10 <Yorick> with slow connections... 10:30:29 <Vikthor> Yorick: Can't you send info before you actually move that client? 10:30:41 <Yorick> thats the way how I do it now 10:30:56 <Gonozal_VIII> or pause the game 10:31:15 <Yorick> Gonozal_VIII: but, if the server has already queued the commands, and then sends them to the clients, while they're invalid... 10:31:46 <Yorick> all clients will refuse to execute that command while the server has already done it, which results in a desync for all clients 10:32:31 <Gonozal_VIII> then drop queued commands of a client if you move it 10:32:48 <Yorick> will result in that client desyncs 10:32:59 <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: I am afraid that will affect Random 10:33:01 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, but won't affect the others 10:33:13 <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: But that's bad design 10:33:41 <Yorick> keeping random things in mind is very difficult, because it's very...random 10:34:08 <Gonozal_VIII> in what situations would you move clients around? 10:34:19 <Gonozal_VIII> without telling them first 10:34:21 <Yorick> in situations where they sabotage companies 10:34:28 <Yorick> cheat 10:34:38 <Gonozal_VIII> and is it really that bad if they desync then? 10:34:51 <Yorick> no, but it is if other clients will 10:35:02 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 10:35:11 <Gonozal_VIII> others won't, if you drop the commands of that client 10:35:44 <Vikthor> Gonozal_VIII: But then there is now need for moving, you can kick him riht away 10:35:53 <Yorick> that could affect random 10:36:07 <Yorick> because, AFAIK, the commands are already executed on the server 10:36:29 <Gonozal_VIII> the chance that he really sent something in those split seconds is very low imho 10:36:40 <Yorick> it doesn't have to be split seconds 10:37:13 <Yorick> if I was a sabotager that wanted to desync other clients while being moved, I would make auto-bribe-on-move 10:37:57 <LordAzamath> is tyhere any special reason why in TTDP signals face the other way than in OpenTTD? 10:38:12 <Yorick> because you can ajust it in ottd 10:38:14 <Gonozal_VIII> how should he know when he will be moved? he only knows that after it happened 10:38:43 <Gonozal_VIII> what do you mean face the other way la? 10:38:46 <Yorick> Gonozal_VIII: just before the client is moved, he recieves a PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE 10:38:57 <Yorick> for him to disable buttons asap 10:38:57 <Vikthor> Yorick: Just send to the client "you are being moved", wait for him to acknowledge it, procces any commands you got meanwhile and the move him 10:39:13 <Yorick> that is how I do it now 10:39:49 <Vikthor> And where is the problem? 10:39:56 <peter1138> LordAzamath, 'face the other way'? What? 10:40:11 <Yorick> with my new one, there isn't 10:40:20 <LordAzamath> Gonozal_VIII, the signal which is faced to me is on the other side of rail in TTDP and OTTD 10:40:24 <Yorick> with the old implementation, there is what I just described 10:40:32 <Vikthor> aha 10:40:44 <Gonozal_VIII> there's a signals on driver side patch setting 10:41:00 <LordAzamath> ok.. didn't know :P 10:41:13 <LordAzamath> and it's default in open? 10:41:38 <peter1138> Ah, 'face the other way' is not quite the same is 'on the opposite side' 10:41:57 <LordAzamath> well.. peter1138 signals on one side of rail face the other side :P 10:42:02 <LordAzamath> way** 10:42:23 <SpComb> move who where? :o 10:42:28 <peter1138> Yes, that's not what you said originally ;) 10:42:28 <LordAzamath> you there 10:42:33 <peter1138> The patch option defaults on. 10:42:41 <peter1138> And makes no difference if your drive-side is left. 10:42:45 <peter1138> As it should be. 10:43:01 <Gonozal_VIII> should not 10:43:08 <Yorick> now, there is a problem with my implementation 10:43:08 <Prof_Frink> should too 10:43:13 <peter1138> Also, I've been robbed. My boss gave me his old wireless mouse but the scroll wheel doesn't work properly. 10:43:19 <Gonozal_VIII> only crater people drive left 10:43:36 <Prof_Frink> *greater 10:43:42 <Gonozal_VIII> crater :P 10:43:44 <Yorick> the problem is that clients can choose NOT to send a confirmation 10:43:48 <Yorick> so they can't be moved 10:43:54 <Prof_Frink> Gonozal_VIII: You are wrong. 10:44:26 <Gonozal_VIII> yesyes, i know... some strange misleaded other people drive left too 10:44:26 <Vikthor> Yorick: Then set some timeout, after which confirmation is implied 10:44:27 <Prof_Frink> We are English, and therefore right about *everything*. 10:44:55 <SpComb> peter1138: sue him 10:45:06 <peter1138> I shalL! 10:45:12 <Vikthor> Prof_Frink: Would you care to prove it? 10:45:19 <Prof_Frink> I don't need to. 10:45:57 <peter1138> Hmm, maybe setting up a road tranfer from a farm to the nearest station wasn't such a good idea. 10:46:11 <peter1138> The frequent loading has caused the farm's output to explode :o 10:48:01 <Gonozal_VIII> strange, usually trucks have lower rating 10:48:10 <Yorick> Vikthos: how do I set one? 10:49:35 <Vikthor> honestly I do not know, I would have to take deeper look on the protocol 10:50:13 <Yorick> I don't even think its possible 10:50:28 <Yorick> without hacking into loops 10:52:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C979.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:22 <LordAzamath> euck.. I hate when TTDPatch gives me crashes 11:05:37 * LordAzamath stays to OpenTTD :P 11:08:53 <peter1138> with 11:09:25 <peter1138> Gonozal_VIII, it's a short run, so they're calling often. A train would sit there waiting a while for full-load. 11:09:46 <Gonozal_VIII> rating goes up while loading too 11:12:27 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:14:28 <Forked> meep 11:14:41 <Yorick> meep 11:15:40 <Gonozal_VIII> you're meeping 11:18:11 <SpComb> Bjarni! 11:18:23 <Gonozal_VIII> there's no bjarni 11:19:14 <SpComb> that's no reason not to.... Bjarni! 11:19:28 <Gonozal_VIII> there is! 11:19:34 <Yorick> Bjarni! 11:19:35 <Gonozal_VIII> you're violating my copyright 11:20:44 <SpComb> do you mean to say that "Bjarni!" constitutes a copyrightable work? 11:20:58 <SpComb> it's more of a trademark, and afaik nobody has registered it 11:21:02 * SpComb ponders doing so 11:24:32 * peter1138 ponders banning it. 11:24:44 <Yorick> peter1138! 11:24:49 <peter1138> Yes? 11:25:07 <Yorick> please don't 11:25:14 <Yorick> you coudl ban Gonozal_VIII with that 11:25:21 <Gonozal_VIII> :P 11:25:33 <Gonozal_VIII> it's my invention! 11:25:43 <Yorick> havily used on #? 11:27:07 <peter1138> I 11:27:15 <peter1138> I'd only ban annoying people. 11:27:32 <Yorick> am I annoying people 11:27:33 <Yorick> ? 11:29:58 <Gonozal_VIII> only while you're here, the rest of the time you're ok :-) 11:30:25 <Yorick> how do you know? 11:30:47 <Gonozal_VIII> because nobody can see you then :-) 11:34:09 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-150-170.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 11:42:54 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 11:58:40 *** SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has joined #openttd 11:59:58 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B82836.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:00:59 *** ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c122-108-43-0.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing] 12:01:27 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8036E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:01:31 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:03:02 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: - nbs-irc 2.36 - www.nbs-irc.net -] 12:07:54 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E01.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 12:14:01 <Yorick> hmm...what shall I set as inactivity limit 12:14:55 <Ammller> devs, I have an idea, how it would be possible to allow rivers. 12:15:33 <Yorick> did you already check the lively rivers draft? 12:15:53 <Ammller> Yorick: do you think that will be in 0.6? 12:16:21 <Gonozal_VIII> i don't think there will be any new feature in 0.6 12:16:37 <Ammller> well rivers is nre, its just buggy 12:16:55 <Yorick> anyone has to make a patch for it first 12:17:06 <Gonozal_VIII> not really buggy... just incomplete 12:17:16 <Ammller> you could make it depense on town names 12:17:39 <peter1138> Ammller: bugs.openttd.org 12:17:41 <Gonozal_VIII> town names? i don't understand what you mean 12:17:44 <Ammller> if you choose "Swiss", its allowed to build rivers. 12:17:52 <Yorick> :o? 12:17:57 <Gonozal_VIII> wtf^^ 12:18:17 <Ammller> because reason, why they didn't inlcude it, is "unrealistic". 12:18:34 <Ammller> in our country, its unrealistic to build canals 12:18:53 <Gonozal_VIII> oh... i thought you were german 12:18:53 <Yorick> and it isn't unrealistic to build rivers, you say? 12:19:16 <Gonozal_VIII> sorry for that 12:19:39 <Ammller> Gonozal_VIII: :) 12:21:58 <SmatZ> [13:17:44] <Ammller> if you choose "Swiss", its allowed to build rivers. <- :-D 12:22:32 <Ammller> hmm, maybe there are other countries? 12:23:00 <Ammller> I know only Holland and German isn't. 12:26:01 <Gonozal_VIII> a lot of rivers here were turned into canals to get more room... 12:26:44 * peter1138 still wonders what the bugs referred to are... 12:26:57 <Gonozal_VIII> that you can't build rivers ingame 12:27:03 <peter1138> Well that's not a bug. 12:27:09 <Gonozal_VIII> i think that's what he was talking about 12:28:55 <Gonozal_VIII> btw ammler, how do you talk if you talk to germans? 12:29:09 <Ammller> english or german, why? 12:29:40 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E01.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:29:41 <Ammller> same as you, I assume :-) 12:29:57 <Gonozal_VIII> well... i guess they could understand 90% or something anyways... just leave out the weird words^^ 12:30:28 <Ammller> its not only words 12:31:42 <Gonozal_VIII> what else? 12:31:52 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E01.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 12:32:11 <Ammller> grammer, but mine isn't documented 12:32:40 <Ammller> I guess, its only possible to lear zÃŒri-swiss-german 12:32:45 <Ammller> learn 12:32:50 <Gonozal_VIII> grammar isn't very important to understand the meaning 12:33:20 <Ammller> well, maybe they just don't want understand us :-) 12:33:28 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 12:33:37 <Yorick> its the difference between man eats dog and dog eats man! 12:33:40 <Gonozal_VIII> it's funny to see swiss tv with german subtitles 12:34:16 <Ammller> well for austria tis nearly able to understand swiss german 12:34:43 <Ammller> at least for "Voralberg" 12:34:45 <Gonozal_VIII> they talk almost the same in the western part 12:34:52 <Gonozal_VIII> yes 12:35:14 <peter1138> "I helped my uncle Jack off the horse." 12:35:15 <Ammller> you aren't from there, then? 12:35:56 <Yorick> nah, not original, peter1138 12:36:00 <Gonozal_VIII> nope, if you draw a rectangular box around austria, i would be almost exactly in the middle^^ 12:36:11 <Gekz> peter1138: you cant help but corrupt our minds 12:36:48 <Gonozal_VIII> you shouldn't use uppercase there peter 12:37:30 <Ammller> hehe KitzbÃŒhl? 12:37:38 <Gonozal_VIII> hmmm not really^^ 12:37:58 <Gonozal_VIII> maybe the box thingy is wrong... did never actually check that 12:38:19 <Ammller> oh, I didn't either 12:38:44 <Ammller> but we drove through there many times in past 12:38:56 <Ammller> to go to Lainach (Mölltal) 12:39:19 <Ammller> almost yearly 12:40:07 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:12 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@90.209.238.10] has joined #openttd 12:43:14 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@90.209.238.10] has quit [Quit: uh oh] 12:43:14 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 12:44:00 <Gonozal_VIII> checked the rectangle stuff now^^ 12:44:29 <Gonozal_VIII> the middle is in salzburg, so a little bit too far west 12:44:32 *** Greysc[a]le [bnc@81.171.136.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:46 <Gonozal_VIII> and north 12:45:13 <Gonozal_VIII> but not much :-) 12:45:33 <Ammller> Austria is country of openttd INs :-P 12:46:04 <Gonozal_VIII> it's not Gonozal_VIIIIN :P 12:46:46 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:50:35 <Ammller> well, we wait for RC to fix that river bug ;-) 12:50:49 <Yorick> what river bug 12:51:14 <Prof_Frink> *that* river bug. 12:51:15 <Ammller> I am the onlyone, see it that way. 12:51:39 <Ammller> so, I have no chance to have that fixed :-) 12:53:25 <Gonozal_VIII> you have 12:53:29 <Gonozal_VIII> write a patch 12:53:39 <LordAzamath> :o 12:53:48 <Gonozal_VIII> and while you're at it, write the whole lively river stuff ;-) 12:53:51 <Ammller> well, it will not be commited before branch for 0.6 is made 12:53:58 <Prof_Frink> Or, continually annoy peter1138 until it's done. 12:54:13 <Gonozal_VIII> nooooo bad idea 12:54:21 <Gonozal_VIII> that would delay 0.6 12:54:36 <Prof_Frink> peter1138! NewRelease! 12:55:07 <Gekz> SEX 12:55:12 <Ammller> well, not sure what more annoying, asking for fixing a bug or for release :P 12:55:17 <Prof_Frink> That's what she said. 12:55:20 <Gonozal_VIII> yes, bug him about working faster on the release instead 12:55:37 <Vikthor> Ammller: It's not bug it's lack of features 12:55:56 <Ammller> Vikthor: well, its not lack, its too much feature :-) 12:56:48 <Vikthor> Than you see, it's not a bug it's feature :D 12:57:04 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 12:58:07 *** Osai [~Osai@pD9EB6072.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:59:07 <Forked> hmm 12:59:32 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-203-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 12:59:53 <Prof_Frink> Oh no, a Llobster! 13:00:51 <Forked> just not used to having hilight triggered here.. 13:01:49 * peter1138 tescoinates 13:02:06 <Prof_Frink> TESCO 13:08:56 <Ammller> LordAzamath: did you get Feedback about opengfx from current ps game? 13:09:19 <Yorick> oh noes 13:09:22 <Yorick> a nobster 13:09:25 <Yorick> lobster* 13:10:05 <Yorick> that one should take m out of his quit message 13:10:23 <Yorick> me 13:11:13 <LordAzamath> Ammller, well.. One thing to the thread :P 13:11:32 <LordAzamath> the snow 13:11:44 <LordAzamath> and I don't remember the others :P 13:12:16 <LordAzamath> is it possible to check vehicle speed with var2? 13:12:29 <LordAzamath> actually, make decision based on speed 13:12:33 <LordAzamath> vehicle speed* 13:13:22 <peter1138> Course it is 13:13:30 <peter1138> Assuming you mean varaction 2 13:13:55 <LordAzamath> yes 13:14:03 <LordAzamath> I didn't find it from vehicle info 13:14:08 <peter1138> property 0xB4 13:14:33 <LordAzamath> argh 13:14:42 * LordAzamath never looks to that table 13:15:32 <Patrick`> hmmph 13:22:46 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 13:28:13 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N880P023.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:20 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:29:22 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:33:20 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 13:40:50 *** Greysc[a]le [bnc@81.171.136.146] has joined #openttd 14:03:22 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F032B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:05:14 *** ProfFrink [~proffrink@90.209.238.10] has joined #openttd 14:10:44 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@90.209.238.10] has quit [Quit: sploing] 14:10:44 *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink 14:11:21 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 14:12:41 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:14:43 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 14:14:45 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 14:30:36 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:30:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ 14:30:52 *** glx is now known as Guest731 14:30:52 *** glx|away is now known as glx 14:37:45 *** Guest731 [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:46:05 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has joined #openttd 14:46:23 *** LordAzamath [~LAlord]@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Now with extra fish!] 14:48:04 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 14:51:31 *** Zr40 [~zr40@2001:960:786:0:21b:63ff:fe9e:ab24] has quit [Quit: Zr40] 14:51:49 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:58:25 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489BF19.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:31 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:19 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 15:01:23 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@137.81.113.87] has quit [Quit: The Rise and Fall of the Heavens themselves is dependant upon Humanity's belief and disbelief.] 15:02:30 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-139-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:05:53 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:11:38 *** dih [~dihedral@dslb-088-066-150-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:11:54 <dih> :-) 15:12:26 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 15:13:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76E28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:13:13 <Yorick> hello dih 15:13:42 <dih> hi 15:13:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76E28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:13 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76E28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:15:58 <Yorick> I've worked out the PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ and PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK things, only thing I need now is a timeout 15:16:15 *** Jortuny [~octernion@r253186120.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #openttd 15:19:01 <Yorick> I could for example check, if a DoCommand executing frame is higher than the time the PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ has been sent 15:19:44 <Yorick> or a sync... 15:20:40 <Vikthor> Can't you set the timeout for say 10 frames, or somthing like that? 15:20:47 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76E28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:07 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76E28.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:21:15 <Yorick> if you tell me how 15:21:58 <dih> Yorick: what do you do on the client 15:22:12 <dih> send a PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK right after it moved itself? 15:22:16 <Yorick> yes 15:22:21 <dih> nice 15:22:31 <dih> so - what if i dont send that packet? 15:22:43 <Yorick> ..., only thing I need now is a timeout.... 15:22:44 <dih> what happens if i 'timeout' 15:23:02 <Yorick> the move will be sent to the other clients and executed on the server 15:23:33 <dih> after timeout? 15:23:36 <Yorick> yes 15:23:49 <dih> then set timeout to the amount of frames a client may be slow 15:24:08 <Yorick> I do not even know how to set the timeout 15:24:34 <Yorick> something with the frameloop 15:24:38 <Yorick> probably ^^ 15:27:47 <Yorick> I'll find out ^^ 15:29:13 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:00 <Yorick> pff...I need to know how to count from 1 to 10 in chinese before tomorrow 15:32:20 <Gonozal_VIII> that's easy 15:32:34 <Yorick> is it? 15:32:35 <Gonozal_VIII> you start at the chinese 1 and stop at the chinese 10 15:32:47 <Gonozal_VIII> :-) 15:33:04 <Yorick> I need to know how to write and say all numbers in a range from 1 to 10 15:33:21 <Gonozal_VIII> pff google it 15:33:42 <SmatZ> yeah 15:33:47 <Yorick> I have it in front of me 15:33:54 <Gonozal_VIII> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_numerals 15:33:59 <Yorick> I only need to write them now 15:34:50 <Yorick> ? :o 15:35:21 <Yorick> I can't copy them :( 15:35:48 <Gonozal_VIII> there's even an animation how to draw it 15:36:29 <Yorick> I know how to draw them, but remembering it is something totaly else when you're not chinese 15:38:10 <Yorick> %E6%8D%8C :o 15:46:14 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-108-75.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 15:47:33 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 15:47:56 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:48:21 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd 15:49:16 <dih> CS:S players here? 15:49:45 <Gonozal_VIII> [16:46:44] <Gonozal_VIII> anyways, japanese is way cooler than chinese 15:49:47 <Yorick> that is a dangerous question 15:50:02 <Yorick> I now have a satanic version of me hunting me 15:50:17 <Yorick> no its not, Gonozal_VIII 15:50:22 <Gonozal_VIII> is too! 15:50:45 <Gonozal_VIII> all those anime are in japanese! 15:50:52 <Yorick> true 15:51:01 <Yorick> Chinese don't make stupid anime 15:51:17 <Gonozal_VIII> stupid :O 15:51:25 <SmatZ> chinese make fine cloathes 15:51:30 <Yorick> ok, say some anime that is not stupid 15:52:22 <Gonozal_VIII> megami-sama :D 15:52:41 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BE2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:52:44 <dih> stupid 15:52:46 <fjb> Hello 15:52:50 <SpComb> Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd 15:52:50 <fjb> !logs 15:52:52 <dih> :-) 15:53:03 <Gonozal_VIII> naaaaaah belldandy ftw! 15:54:59 <fjb> <sing> I like chinese, they only grow up to your knees </sing> 15:55:21 <Yorick> true 15:55:34 <Patrick`> mmm 15:55:46 <Yorick> the longest people on earth compared to the shortest :) 15:55:59 <Yorick> its like a sea of black hair 15:57:15 <fjb> Hm, the train reversing (push / pull service) has a big design flaw. :-( 16:04:09 <glx> fjb: it is newgrf dependant 16:04:53 <Ammller> hoja, does that already work in ottd? 16:05:13 *** Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N774P027.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:05:17 <fjb> Has the grf the ability to reverse the whole train? I thought it can only exchange the sprites of the first and last vehicle in a train. 16:05:28 <fjb> Ammller: It does. 16:05:33 <Yorick> :o 16:05:38 <Yorick> since? 16:05:49 <Ammller> so you have a "hacked" canadian set? 16:05:59 <fjb> No. 16:05:59 <Ammller> or is there an other set? 16:06:02 <fjb> Yes. 16:06:04 <glx> the grf can do that if it tests the right things 16:06:15 <Yorick> since? 16:06:23 <Ammller> fjb: and which one :-) 16:06:36 <glx> Yorick: since var FE bit 8 is implemented 16:06:37 <fjb> The UKRS exchanges first and last vehicle and turns that vehicles around. 16:06:51 <Yorick> oh, that one 16:07:23 <fjb> But the wagons beside the first and the last in the train still reverse. 16:09:50 <fjb> A push/pull train entering a terminal station with the locomotive first leaves it with the locomotive last and the driving wagon first. But the other wagons in the train still behave like the not push pull trains. At least that is the behavioour of UKRS. 16:11:46 <fjb> Put a wagon with a different color in the train, not as the first or last wagon, but also not as the middle of the train, so that the train looks asymetrical. You see that onle locomotive and driving wagon exchange places. 16:12:29 <fjb> A different colored wagon in the last part of the train jumps to the first part of the train then. 16:12:53 *** dih [~dihedral@dslb-088-066-150-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:14:16 <fjb> Can the GRF fix that? Or is that a flaw of the of the var FE bit 8 specification? 16:22:07 *** dih [~dihedral@dslb-088-066-150-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 16:24:25 *** Jortuny [~octernion@r253186120.resnet.cornell.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> it should be done totally different 16:26:40 <Eddi|zuHause> most natural way would be a negative speed... 16:27:54 *** Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d042d73.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #openttd 16:28:48 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, the game urgently needs to get rid of the concept of a "front engine" 16:30:07 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a "front" and an "engine", they don't need to coincide 16:31:34 <glx> <fjb> Can the GRF fix that? Or is that a flaw of the of the var FE bit 8 specification? <-- a grf can fix it I think, like it does for the first and last 16:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but it is horribly complicated 16:32:26 <glx> lot of action 2 :) 16:35:17 <Eddi|zuHause> the purpose of a grf is for the designer not to need to know about the implementation... this feature totally fails that design principle 16:35:46 *** Jortuny [~octernion@rrdhcp62-139.redrover.cornell.edu] has joined #openttd 16:35:51 *** UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.106.185] has joined #openttd 16:36:50 <Ammller> fjb: maybe you should "hack" canada train set and look how it works on openttd 16:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> what the grf feature really needs is a flag "this vehicle can be at the front of a train" and "this vehicle has speed limit X when driving forwards, and Y when driving backwards" 16:38:05 <Ammller> "this vehicle can be at the front of a train" <-- is that needed? 16:38:24 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you cannot drive a train backwards unless it has a steering wagon at the other end 16:39:10 <Eddi|zuHause> the next natural extension would be a flag "this engine has shunting ability" [removing the requirement of the steering engine, but possibly reduced speed and different signalling rules] 16:39:19 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@134.102.236.219] has joined #openttd 16:40:27 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:16 *** LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 16:53:36 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:28 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 17:03:00 <Slowpoke> if I play whith some ECS-VEctor-grfs, what trainset is best to use? (eg. for transporting automobiles etc.) 17:03:28 <LordAzamath> DBset with ECS extension I guess 17:04:19 <Patrick`> yo 17:04:31 <Patrick`> any cheese monkeys here? 17:04:31 <Slowpoke> okay thanks 17:04:34 <Patrick`> it seems like the most european of my channels 17:04:56 <Patrick`> vivre la vie francais, "live the french life". I know what it literally means, but is it a phrase that means something else? 17:06:47 <LordAzamath> hmm.. Is there any special reason why the original terrain generator gives exactly one half of map above snowline and the other half below? (diagonally.. snow line height set to 7) 17:07:24 <LordAzamath> I know that it uses that method in sub-tropical to make a desert/river/rainforest area.. 17:07:30 <LordAzamath> but why in arctic? 17:07:33 <Yorick> because exactly half of the map is above 7? 17:07:50 <Yorick> because arctic is set to mountainious? 17:08:52 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAzamath: forests may only appear above snow line, this method was used to ensure that there was significant area of snow 17:09:05 <LordAzamath> hmm.. 17:09:10 <LordAzamath> it looks reallly weird 17:09:21 <LordAzamath> I set it to 13 now 17:09:31 <Yorick> that's why we have terragenisis? 17:09:37 <Patrick`> it's over 9000! 17:09:42 * LordAzamath wanted original :P 17:10:12 <Eddi|zuHause> LordAzamath: it is inherited from the original game 17:10:25 <Patrick`> mmm, francais 17:10:34 <LordAzamath> k 17:10:51 <LordAzamath> in that case I didn't want original :P 17:10:57 <Eddi|zuHause> so if you want a real reason (instead of my, let's call it "edjucated guess"), you have to ask chris sawyer 17:12:06 *** Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:15:06 <LordAzamath> Eddi|zuHause: Yeah.. Perhaps he can submit a fix to it.. //ironic 17:16:33 <Patrick`> does the man himself actually know we exist? 17:16:41 <Patrick`> ... does he idle on IRC? 17:17:01 <Eddi|zuHause> i am pretty certain he does 17:17:32 <Eddi|zuHause> if by "we" you mean "the openttd project" 17:17:47 <LordAzamath> Patrick`: I'm pretty sure he knows approximatly how many people exist, so maybe he doesn't know you to exist.. But some of us for certain 17:18:58 <LordAzamath> sry for too much TTDP activity, but I'm not in a mood for compiling today :P.. And I didn't get answer from #tycoon 17:19:00 <LordAzamath> > what is the switch in ttdpatchw.cfg to allow building on steep slopes? 17:19:13 <Yorick> building_on_slopes? 17:19:17 <Yorick> but is it possible? 17:19:40 <Yorick> ctrl-f trpe slopes 17:19:40 <LordAzamath> I thought so.. 17:20:17 <LordAzamath> autoslope 17:20:21 <LordAzamath> buildonslope 17:20:44 <LordAzamath> but neither of the allows to build on steep slopes.. 17:20:56 <Yorick> who said anything about steep? 17:21:50 <Yorick> dih: I'm wondering, where should I store the temporary moving data? 17:22:29 <fjb> Ammller: Sorry, I was away from the computer. The licence of the Canadian Set explicitly forbids hacking the set. 17:23:12 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] 17:24:40 <fjb> Slowpoke: DBset + ECS extension has some disadvatages. UKRS has better ECS compatibility, so does the Serbian Set. 17:26:34 * hylje thinks fjb is a slowpoke :-) 17:26:52 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493CDDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:26:53 <LordAzamath> slow...poke indeed 17:27:20 * fjb wasn't at the computer the last hour and is still catching up the channel. 17:27:39 <hylje> hence 17:28:47 *** Diabolic1Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-233-35.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd 17:29:04 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-235-235.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:15 <Yorick> "if (!ci->being_moved) return; /* The client was never about to be moved;client is a cheetah; so ignore him */" 17:35:21 <Ammller> fjb: well, hacking and distribut 17:36:02 <Ammller> but you need just to remove the action which does make error because of openttd and use it for yourself 17:36:18 <Ammller> dalestand self mentioned somethng like that 17:37:26 <Ammller> you can hack everything as long ans noeone else does catch you ;-) 17:38:44 <Yorick> experience? 17:39:04 <Ammller> buh, no, I am a user :) 17:39:19 <Ammller> "only" 17:42:16 <Yorick> I still don't get, you have a nice and shiny client_lang, next to fill it with NETLANG_ANY for every client :( 17:44:10 *** McHawk [~hawk@p5489BF27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:44:47 *** Diabolic1Angel is now known as Diabolic-Angel 17:45:47 <peter1138> 16:36 Eddi|zuHause> yes, you cannot drive a train backwards unless it has a steering wagon at the other end 17:45:53 <peter1138> Trains need *steering*? 17:46:44 <fjb> I could hack it, but I think even hacking without distribution is explicitly forbidden. 17:47:27 <Yorick> nope 17:47:28 <fjb> And why should I use a set when the creator doesn't want me to use it? There are many other nice sets around. 17:48:12 * fjb has seen trains getting pushed with out a steering wagon. 17:48:35 <Yorick> what is the problem with keeping STATUS_INACTIVE sometimes? 17:51:56 <fjb> Ammller: Modifications to code (NFO) is not permitted. 17:52:58 <peter1138> You can modify OpenTTD though... 17:54:12 <fjb> Hm, modify OpenTTD to disguise as TTDP? :-) 17:54:23 <Ammller> fjb: should I do it for you? 17:55:00 <fjb> Ammller: No, I respect the authors wish and don't want to play that set. 17:55:12 <Ammller> ah, was a joke 17:55:44 <Ammller> would be too complicated for me anyway 17:56:48 <fjb> I don't think is would be that coplicated. You only have to do advanced pattern matching. The way I'm patching OpenTTD without understanding the source code. :-) 17:57:10 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 17:58:30 <Ammller> yeah, Dalestan already explained it at the canada set 17:58:33 <Ammller> thread 17:59:31 <Yorick> dih: could you give me some help? 18:01:01 <Yorick> [19:00] <@dih> !password <-- I take that as a no :) 18:01:10 <dih> what you need? 18:01:36 <Yorick> I wonder: 1.where I should store the moving timeout 18:01:43 <Yorick> 2.how much it should be 18:02:02 <Yorick> _frame_counter + NetworkCalculateLag(NetworkFindClientStateFromIndex(client_index)) is not enough, I think 18:02:13 <dih> Yorick: cannot help you there 18:02:27 <Yorick> :( 18:03:12 <Yorick> I'll make it "lag * 3" 18:04:28 * LordAzamath does some homework now.. cu 18:04:50 <Yorick> cu 18:04:57 <Yorick> have fun :p 18:08:45 <fjb> Can anybody invent drive through railway depots, please? 18:09:44 <Tefad> i really like the pocket universe in depots 18:10:09 <Tefad> where'd those to 100 car trains go? ohhh they're both in this depot 18:10:14 <Prof_Frink> Someone should make a GRF where the depots are blue 18:10:19 <Prof_Frink> With a light on top 18:10:35 <Prof_Frink> And "POLICE CALL BOX" on the side 18:10:38 <Tefad> also i meant to type two. 18:10:58 <LordAzamath> Prof_Frink: Gimme graphics :P 18:11:08 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46a96.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 18:11:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ 18:11:09 <LordAzamath> ooh.. I had to do homework :O 18:11:14 <LordAzamath> Bjarni! 18:11:21 <fjb> That is kind of a problem actually. I have a depot which likes to "eat" trains. Trains arriving at the depot are keeping the others trains from leaving that depot. 18:11:22 <Yorick> bjarni! 18:13:12 <Bjarni> anybody in here admitting to being Swedish? 18:13:29 <dih> hey there 18:15:08 <Sacro> Bjarni! 18:15:18 <Bjarni> ... 18:15:20 <Sacro> i was swedish yesterday 18:15:26 <Bjarni> do you admit to being Swedish? 18:15:40 <Sacro> http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd/view/2008-03-08~221#goto 18:15:42 <Sacro> Ja 18:16:11 <Bjarni> fint... jeg skal bruge en svensk telefonbog. Har du et link? 18:17:33 *** Jortuny [~octernion@rrdhcp62-139.redrover.cornell.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:17:35 <Yorick> :) 18:17:44 <Yorick> the move patch timeout finally works 18:17:46 <peter1138> SacrÞ 18:17:53 <Bjarni> no reply... 18:20:07 <Bjarni> dammit 18:20:40 <Bjarni> one of the rare occasions where I need this channel to give some info then nobody can say anything useful :( 18:23:38 <Yorick> http://electricpotential.net/ircstats/openttd2.html <-- :O at quote #8 for dutch people 18:25:42 <LordAzamath> haha Yorick You are the last there :P 18:25:45 <Bjarni> it would appear that I'm talking about a picture of a steam locomotive 18:25:52 <Yorick> at least I'm in there 18:26:11 <Yorick> to* ^^ 18:27:58 <LordAzamath> Yorick: I'm in there too... In the next table :P 18:28:44 <guru3> well i'll be 18:28:53 <guru3> people do check those pages 18:29:12 <Yorick> some 18:29:17 <Yorick> !stats 18:29:22 <Yorick> no stats 18:29:33 <peter1138> Bjarni, sorry, we're OpenTTD players, not steam buffs... 18:29:38 <glx> @stats 18:29:38 <DorpsGek> glx: I have 6 registered users with 6 registered hostmasks; 1 owner and 0 admins. 18:29:47 <Yorick> make stats appear there, and all will visit that page 18:29:50 <Yorick> @channel stats 18:29:50 <DorpsGek> Yorick: Error: 'supybot.stats' is not a valid configuration variable. 18:30:13 <Yorick> @config search stats 18:30:13 <DorpsGek> Yorick: supybot.plugins.ChannelStats, supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.public, supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.selfStats, supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.smileys, and supybot.plugins.ChannelStats.frowns 18:30:22 <Bjarni> peter1138: there is a fair chance that I'm replying to a picture somebody else posted 18:30:32 <Roujin> lol, "patch" is place 10 on most used words ^^ 18:30:43 <Yorick> @config plugins.ChannelStats 18:30:43 <DorpsGek> Yorick: True 18:31:04 <LordAzamath> Roujin: Look at the persons who used that word :P 18:31:12 <Yorick> poor I :( 18:31:26 <LordAzamath> glx, dih, ammler..... those words* 18:31:46 <dih> wtf? 18:31:49 <LordAzamath> sorry for highlightnign 18:32:02 <Yorick> dih: while you're here, the timeout works :) 18:32:03 <dih> ^^ 18:32:09 <dih> good 18:32:18 <Yorick> I'll upload a screen 18:32:55 <Yorick> http://img221.imageshack.us/my.php?image=geennaam2jan1960nm9.png 18:33:59 <Bjarni> moving on when it gets a timeout? 18:34:10 <Bjarni> isn't that usually a "don't do this"? 18:34:16 <Yorick> no 18:34:27 <Yorick> because clients could then block moving 18:35:57 <Bjarni> what is it that timesout? 18:37:32 <Yorick> the patch sends a PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ to the client, client moves self, sends PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK, server moves client for every other client 18:37:53 <Yorick> but, if client ignore PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ, client fails to be moved 18:37:55 <SmatZ> Yorick: why do you need to confirm it by client? 18:38:10 <Yorick> because otherwise clients could desync 18:38:39 <SmatZ> are you sure about it? 18:38:40 <Yorick> long story, d1h knows how to explain :) 18:38:48 <Bjarni> then wouldn't you have the desync issue on timeout? 18:39:00 <Yorick> yes 18:39:15 <dih> lol - this is cute 18:39:23 <Bjarni> cute? 18:39:29 <Yorick> have to run for dinner now 18:39:32 <Yorick> cya :) 18:39:34 <peter1138> So they can desync or they can desync? Hmm 18:39:39 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:54 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:40:05 <dih> no 18:40:19 <dih> his idea was that a client gets a move request 18:40:25 <dih> and the server a move confirmation 18:40:41 <dih> so that there is time to process any docommands in between 18:40:48 <dih> (which i am not sure is a good idea) 18:41:24 <dih> move is move - if client likes it or not 18:41:46 <dih> just that if the server does a move, and the client a docommand 18:41:52 <dih> before the client was updated 18:41:59 <dih> -> out 18:42:05 <dih> kick for invalid packet :-P 18:42:15 <Bjarni> wouldn't it be better to make the server make a command telling the clients to move the client at tick X? 18:42:50 <dih> would be better yes 18:42:58 <dih> but docommands address companies, not clients 18:44:09 <ln-> Bjarni!! 18:44:43 <LordAzamath> ln-: You are VERY late... 18:45:01 <ln-> LordAzamath: i know, i was watching a documentary of the Wright brothers 18:45:41 <LordAzamath> those guys who made the plane? 18:45:56 <fjb> Bye 18:46:01 *** fjb [~frank@p5485BE2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:02 <LordAzamath> cu 18:46:46 <ln-> the ones 18:47:36 <ln-> now watching: Eesti Televisioon 18:47:36 *** dih [~dihedral@dslb-088-066-150-074.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:59 <LordAzamath> ln-: What comes there? 18:48:26 <ln-> some show that looks exactly like the finnish Uutisvuoto. 18:48:48 * LordAzamath checks www.kava.ee 18:49:02 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-151-230.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:05 <LordAzamath> oo.. teletaip :P 18:49:13 *** Frostregen [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-124-057.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 18:51:02 <LordAzamath> generally, I don't watch ETV... 18:51:16 <LordAzamath> only some cultural programs mostly 18:51:19 <LordAzamath> are there 18:51:41 <ln-> generally, I don't either, because generally it's not visible. 18:52:24 <LordAzamath> hehe 18:52:41 <LordAzamath> it has the srrongest signal in Estonia though 18:52:52 <ln-> it's on cable here 18:52:52 <LordAzamath> so I guess parts of Finland can reach it 18:53:06 <LordAzamath> k 18:55:16 <LordAzamath> mai gaawd... /me has yet to have completed some homework.. 18:55:28 <LordAzamath> and I totally forgot it 18:55:31 <LordAzamath> now 18:55:50 <LordAzamath> :( 18:56:11 <LordAzamath> one A4 page full of some russian text to retell :o 18:56:44 * Slowpoke has to write a poem :( 18:56:56 *** Arie^ [asdfsadf@villabadmuts.adsl.utwente.nl] has joined #openttd 18:57:27 <LordAzamath> /me would usually laugh over Slowpoke but won't do it today, because shares the same fate of awful homework 18:57:34 <LordAzamath> :O 18:57:36 <Slowpoke> do I have to do something special to get the serbian trainset? 18:57:48 <LordAzamath> yea.. 18:57:57 <LordAzamath> download it, install it.. 18:57:59 <Roujin> yes, stand on your head and sing a lullaby 18:58:20 <LordAzamath> lullaby lullaboo lull... Ouch.. I fell 18:58:26 <Slowpoke> I ment something special compared to other grfs 18:58:30 <Roujin> shush LA, don't make fun of people by telling them nonsensical instructions >:( 18:58:51 <Slowpoke> since it shows a empty warning all the time 18:59:11 <LordAzamath> shush Roujin, don't give them right instructions 18:59:28 <LordAzamath> x( 19:00:26 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F548E3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 19:00:38 *** Arie- [asdfsadf@villabadmuts.adsl.utwente.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:00:41 * Slowpoke tried that stand-on-head-thing but failed, now uses UKRS 19:01:19 <LordAzamath> You have to have a full triangle between your hands, shoulders and head... 19:01:37 <LordAzamath> It's way easier to stand on head that way;P 19:01:42 <ln-> mÀrtsi pommittamisest 64 aastat, hmm 19:01:47 <LordAzamath> true 19:01:59 <LordAzamath> one t though 19:02:05 <LordAzamath> :P 19:05:23 <ln-> eesti geoloogiakeskuse geoloog 19:05:42 <LordAzamath> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23546098/ 19:05:55 <LordAzamath> :O 19:06:16 <LordAzamath> ln-: ? 19:06:20 *** Gonozal_VIII [Gonozal_VI@90.146.202.98] has joined #openttd 19:06:28 <ln-> watching news 19:06:36 <Gonozal_VIII> nope 19:06:44 <ln-> yes 19:06:49 <Gonozal_VIII> am not! 19:06:55 <ln-> objection! 19:07:02 <ln-> am yes 19:07:02 <Prof_Frink> overruled! 19:07:09 <Gonozal_VIII> hehe 19:07:30 <LordAzamath> :O 19:07:39 <LordAzamath> how come you are not invited? 19:08:03 <LordAzamath> now better 19:08:14 <Patrick`> ln is argentinian? 19:08:18 <LordAzamath> yes 19:08:28 <LordAzamath> aren't you? 19:08:32 <LordAzamath> :) 19:08:33 <Gonozal_VIII> northern part 19:08:52 <ln-> saksa soturit 19:09:05 <ln-> sounds funny 19:09:13 <LordAzamath> sõdurid not soturit 19:09:33 <LordAzamath> or sõdurit.. depends on context 19:09:48 <Gonozal_VIII> Saksan sotureita: Hermann Göring 19:09:49 <Patrick`> mmm, prawns 19:09:51 <Gonozal_VIII> huh 19:11:00 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:20:55 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:22 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 19:33:44 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 19:34:53 *** Jortuny [~octernion@rrdhcp62-469.redrover.cornell.edu] has joined #openttd 19:37:24 <Yorick> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1363#comment3626 19:37:49 <Yorick> now let the comments arrive! 19:38:05 <Yorick> dev's seem to have a highlight on "dev's" :) 19:39:06 <Gonozal_VIII> gepauzeerd^^ what a strange word 19:39:30 * Sacro slaps Yorick for apostrophe abuse 19:39:46 <Yorick> grr 19:41:01 <Yorick> translation fo' paused 19:41:14 <peter1138> Quite. 19:41:17 * Vikthor slaps Sacro for slap abuse 19:41:28 <Sacro> :( 19:41:49 <Yorick> Quite what? 19:42:41 <peter1138> Apostrophe abuse. 19:42:51 <Sacro> A BUG A BUG A BUG 19:43:12 <Sacro> peter1138: can you check your pbs server 19:43:31 <Sacro> 0x97B3 onwards is a tram route 19:43:32 <Yorick> you all seem to notice my apotsroph abuse, but not my patch:( 19:43:34 <Sacro> but nobody owns it 19:44:14 * peter1138 moves to other machine... 19:44:30 <Sacro> i must have gone bankrupt, but my tramlines still exist 19:44:31 *** LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]] 19:44:32 <peter1138> Yarly, this one. 19:44:34 <Sacro> can other companies use them? 19:44:41 <Sacro> i must admit 19:44:50 <Sacro> Hull still has 100 year old tram tracks from years gone by 19:45:00 <Sacro> but they did remove the catenary ;) 19:46:01 * Yorick needs attention 19:46:23 *** Haxonic [~octernion@hermes.mae.cornell.edu] has joined #openttd 19:46:34 <peter1138> Hmm. 19:47:57 <Yorick> I am not entirely sure about "generic action chat message" 19:48:11 *** Jortuny [~octernion@rrdhcp62-469.redrover.cornell.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:49:18 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:49:25 <peter1138> Sacro, they can be shared, apparently. 19:53:27 *** UFO64 [~UFO64@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 19:53:39 <Sacro> peter1138: really? :o 19:54:02 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 20:04:17 *** Gekz [~brendan@CPE-58-167-79-173.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:55 *** Haxonic [~octernion@hermes.mae.cornell.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:11:51 <peter1138> Hmm 20:12:05 <Yorick> . 20:12:59 *** caladan [~caladan@161-bem-18.acn.waw.pl] has joined #openttd 20:12:59 <Bjarni> good point 20:15:13 <Yorick> Bjarni: can't you take a look at it, and include it, crediting dih and me? 20:15:13 <ln-> Bjarni: what about this one: · 20:15:20 <Yorick> '! 20:15:36 <Yorick> .·'! 20:15:38 <Bjarni> take a look at what? 20:15:41 <Bjarni> your '? 20:15:47 <Yorick> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1363#comment3626 20:16:54 <Yorick> .·'/.·'/'·.\'·.\'·. 20:17:19 <Bjarni> are you making a parody of perl or something? 20:17:28 <Yorick> uh? 20:17:53 <Prof_Frink> parody? 20:17:57 <Yorick> perl? 20:19:23 <Yorick> why? 20:19:34 <Bjarni> one-word-sentences? 20:19:49 <Yorick> where? 20:19:56 <Bjarni> here 20:20:22 <Yorick> where-here? 20:20:30 <Prof_Frink> ban? 20:20:49 <Bjarni> ok 20:21:03 <Prof_Frink> bugger. 20:21:04 <Yorick> no 20:24:58 *** Yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember nothing.] 20:25:14 *** bumblebee [~nnscript@ti0117a340-0253.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 20:27:28 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 20:32:05 <ln-> i'm sensing a local maximum point in the quality of discussion. 20:33:36 <hylje> you imply you can derive the discussion 20:34:09 <Bjarni> discussion? 20:34:20 <Bjarni> where? 20:34:40 *** UFO64 [~UFO64@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:41:19 *** Jortuny [~octernion@hermes.mae.cornell.edu] has joined #openttd 20:42:30 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:07 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 20:49:10 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:03 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@134.102.236.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:14 <Wolf01> 'night 20:56:18 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host44-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:57:25 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 21:04:28 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76E28.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:07:08 *** Jortuny [~octernion@hermes.mae.cornell.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:10:41 *** glx|away [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 21:10:44 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx|away] by ChanServ 21:11:06 *** glx is now known as Guest757 21:11:06 *** glx|away is now known as glx 21:17:05 *** Guest757 [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:19:42 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:20:35 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-64-31.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #openttd 21:21:28 <Chrill> Hey! I've got a simple question. What font is it in the OpenTTD main screen? ( http://www.holarse-linuxgaming.de/h2006/space/Transport%20Tycoon/Transport-Tycoon_2.jpeg ) / Is it downloable anywhere? :) 21:21:50 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B772B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:22:02 *** jp [~Miranda@dslb-088-067-252-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 21:22:10 <glx> Chrill: they are sprites 21:22:47 <Chrill> Ah, okay. Thanks :) 21:25:36 <peter1138> Hmm, an old shot that still says that long title... 21:26:17 <Bjarni> and no mentioning of the version either 21:26:28 *** Diabolic-Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-233-35.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:30 <Eddi|zuHause> aaaaargh... jpeg!! 21:28:47 *** Roujin [~Roujin@mnch-4d042d73.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 21:30:08 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B772B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:29 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B772B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:31:58 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:33:50 <Chrill> Bjarni and peter1138, i just googled xD 21:34:31 <Bjarni> should that make it better? 21:34:54 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F548E3.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:36:42 <ln-> mr. zuHause is right, jpeg is not for screenshots! 21:37:53 <Sacro> nor is your mum 21:38:22 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 21:38:42 <Patrick`> custom font 21:46:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B772B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:20 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B772B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:48:29 *** jp [~Miranda@dslb-088-067-252-024.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: jp] 21:57:35 <Chrill> Bjarni, it doesn't make it better, it just makes it easier to blame Sacro for something he never actually did 21:59:36 <Sacro> ? 21:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> why would you go through all that trouble when you could just blame sacro for anything he did 22:00:00 <Sacro> :( 22:01:10 <Bjarni> Chrill: why would you blame Sacro for that jpg? 22:01:27 <Bjarni> for once I actually side with Sacro 22:01:36 <Bjarni> your statement makes no sense 22:01:53 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E01.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:01:55 <Bjarni> if we blame Sacro for something then it should make sense to blame Sacro 22:05:18 <Chrill> Bjarni, check out the bug report I just.. reported.. in the bugs.. 22:05:21 <Chrill> thing.. 22:06:35 <Chrill> I can recreate that without even having to think, really 22:11:03 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:11:54 <glx> Chrill: please provide the crash.dmp too 22:13:16 *** markmc [~me@h240n1fls304o1036.telia.com] has joined #openttd 22:14:23 <SmatZ> ah, Chrill is here 22:14:25 <SmatZ> :-x 22:14:46 <Chrill> the crash.dmp is auto-generated, yes? 22:14:57 <glx> yes 22:15:01 <Chrill> kk, one sec 22:16:00 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-150-170.adslplus.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:16:45 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-58-114.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 22:17:12 <ln-> http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1093/28820nn9.jpg 22:17:32 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B74FE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:17:37 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:48 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B772B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:22:15 <Chrill> There we go, glx 22:23:21 <SmatZ> hmm it can have something to do with your custom title screen 22:23:31 <SmatZ> btw, pngs are way better than jpgs 22:23:33 <glx> what's wrong with ctrl-s? 22:24:00 <Chrill> SmatZ, the pic quality is due to me shrinking it, not due to jpg use 22:24:04 <SmatZ> doesn't work in title screen 22:24:14 <Chrill> and yes, that 22:24:28 <Bjarni> goodnight 22:24:30 *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a46a96.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:24:30 <SmatZ> and it is still 1,2MB in size :) 22:24:36 <Chrill> buttcrap 22:24:39 <glx> open console and type "screenshot no_con" IIRC 22:24:40 <Chrill> i mean.. oh 22:24:57 <Chrill> Well I was not aware of that, sorry. Let me try and recreate it without the title screen 22:25:06 <Chrill> Can i simply remove opntitle.dat? 22:25:29 <SmatZ> you can (but backup your current file :) 22:25:38 <Chrill> Hm... I think I encountered another problem 22:25:42 <Chrill> Or rather 22:25:47 <Chrill> the bug being something else than reported 22:26:13 <Chrill> Someone get an opntitle.dat using NewGRFs.. Then open the NewGRF list, anywhere, in title screen too.. When closing, it will crash 22:26:25 <Chrill> as it would (in older versions) simply remove all GRFs from the title screen 22:26:55 <glx> known, don't use newgrfs in intro 22:29:38 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 22:31:55 <glx> and your bug is related to that 22:32:10 <Chrill> Yeah, exactly 22:32:37 <glx> when you close the window, the current (as in the one in your cfg) grf list is restored 22:33:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 22:33:37 *** llugo [~lugo@p4FD5EE59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:34:12 <Chrill> yeah, and that's where the crash occurs now (did not in pre-0.6.0) 22:34:34 <glx> pre-0.6.0 didn't have action F support 22:34:50 <Chrill> not that I know what Action F is but you're the expert, im just the player :P 22:34:52 <glx> and action F support needs loading grfs in intro 22:35:04 <glx> action F is townname 22:35:08 <Chrill> ooh 22:36:00 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DD74.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 22:36:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> but there should be a newgrf sandbox for the title screen game... 22:36:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> or the main menu 22:38:16 <Chrill> Crash is not occuring when using an opntitle.dat without NewGRFs :P 22:40:21 <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: very hard to do as grfs are loaded globally 22:40:29 *** lugo [~lugo@p4FD5DDAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:42:02 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 22:43:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, the game could use a general overhaul of global variables... [i.e. pass references instead] 22:46:25 <Eddi|zuHause2> with that, you could quite easily generate a new "game environment" 22:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> without destroying the existing one 22:49:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> it would also remove the need of some... "hacks"... (like the existance of "_patches" and "_patches_newgame") 22:51:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> you could instead have "running_game.patches", "new_game.patches" and "title_game.patches" 22:51:26 <peter1138> instead of two, have three! 22:51:48 <peter1138> no need for title_game 22:51:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, they could be the same, just called differently 22:52:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the fun with passing references, you can call them differently in each function 22:52:42 * SmatZ references -> pointers :) 22:53:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> "pointers" [in the C++ sense] are just an implementation of "references" [in the abstract sense] 22:54:05 <SmatZ> how do you call "void f(int &x)" then? 22:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> "references in the C++ sense?" 22:55:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> [as opposed to the abstract concept] 22:56:02 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:56:44 <SmatZ> that's not really practical :-x 22:56:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> the only difference is that one makes it possible to get low-level access to the representation of the reference [which might not be a good idea in all cases] 22:57:04 <peter1138> Neither is passing pointers around everywhere. 22:59:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> i just wanted to say that global variables are bad... not that the other ways would be better in all cases 23:00:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> and that having references to an environment would make it quite trivial to create sandbox environments 23:02:31 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: I do not agree with you, but you are free to try to rewrite OTTD to use references / pointers instead of global variables ... then we can measure the speed of program and the code readability 23:04:08 *** bumblebee [~nnscript@ti0117a340-0253.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:07:14 *** bumblebee [~nnscript@ti0117a340-0253.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 23:09:26 *** Nemesis [~Nemesis@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 23:11:34 <Chrill> Well im off 23:11:44 <Chrill> cya lot, thanks for the help with finding the problem, glx 23:12:05 *** hal [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has joined #openttd 23:12:14 *** Chrill [~chrischri@c80-216-64-31.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Once Upon a time in XeryusTC's pants] 23:12:16 *** shodan [user@xerxes.foocode.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:12:16 *** hal is now known as shodan 23:12:48 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:13:11 *** caladan [~caladan@161-bem-18.acn.waw.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:15:23 *** bumblebee [~nnscript@ti0117a340-0253.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:15:33 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:16:23 *** Zealotus [~Nemesis@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:21:23 *** NukeBuster|laptop [~opera@82-169-117-23.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 23:30:40 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 23:42:46 *** Slowpoke_ [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-225-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:03 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-203-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:50:38 *** Dr_Jekyll [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0D82D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:50:54 <Dr_Jekyll> hi... 23:51:04 <Dr_Jekyll> i'm a bit confused 23:51:35 <Dr_Jekyll> i was searchin the forum for a while but i can't find a answer for my question 23:51:47 <glx> just ask here 23:52:26 <Dr_Jekyll> is there a "set up daylength option" for the current beta 0.6.0b5? 23:53:00 <glx> no 23:53:09 <glx> you need to apply a patch and compile 23:53:38 <Dr_Jekyll> hm...grml...my coding knowldge is as worst as my english 23:54:22 <Dr_Jekyll> but there is a posibility to get this option back, do i understand right? 23:56:15 <glx> this option never been in openttd 23:56:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> Dr_Jekyll: there is a custom build of Gonozal_VIII, including this patch 23:59:02 <Dr_Jekyll> hm not in openttd? i'm not sure which version it was i just remember that an option like this "exists" 23:59:20 <glx> miniin had it IIRC