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00:00:58 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 00:02:55 <Zuu> Eddi|zuHause4: Nothing realy wrong. I like how explicit the language is. 00:03:22 <Eddi|zuHause4> i still have no idea what you are referring to... 00:04:48 <Zuu> I was refering to that if you have an if-then-else statement the true-block do not have an ending ;, but the false block should have a ;. 00:05:51 *** jez9999 [pinout@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 00:06:29 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:07:11 <Zuu> One thing it lacks though in explicitnes is that you don't have do declare that a method throws exceptions as you must in Java. Which is a good thing. 00:10:05 <Eddi|zuHause4> you got that wrong... ; separates statements, but if-then-else is one single statement, so it does not have ; inbetween, only at the end 00:11:33 <Eddi|zuHause4> the ; does not belong to the statement itself 00:11:49 <Eddi|zuHause4> it is a separator for sequences of statements 00:12:02 <Eddi|zuHause4> which is why you can leave out the ; before "end" 00:12:50 <Eddi|zuHause4> "end" is not a statement, so it does not need to be separated from the previous statement 00:14:29 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-45-130.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 00:16:46 <Zuu> Okay, yea kind of what my mental idea was, but I would not have expressed it that clear. Thanks :) 00:18:26 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:55 <nicfer> one question... the town growth in temperate is determined by the amount of passengers transported or by the amount of active stations? 00:26:28 <Eddi|zuHause4> yes 00:33:23 *** Nemesis [~Nemesis@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:23 <nicfer> yes? 00:35:30 <nicfer> yes to what? 00:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause4> ;) 00:36:16 <Eddi|zuHause4> the second, actually ;) 00:36:49 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fccfa.f.ppp-pool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:38:26 <nicfer> hmmm okay... would be more fun for making cities grow if it was the first way 00:38:34 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B788E5.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-143-201.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:38:53 <Eddi|zuHause4> feel free to provide a patch ;) 00:39:03 *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off 00:40:47 *** Zealotus [~Nemesis@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 00:41:18 <nicfer> and also while most big is the city, it should require other cargos, example at 500 mail and at 1000 goods 00:53:17 <nicfer> something like in the spinoff 01:01:05 *** f_yOu [hitas@client-87-247-92-170.inturbo.lt] has quit [Quit: dwj] 01:02:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1CA6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:03:16 *** nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has left #openttd [] 01:06:09 *** Zuu [~Zuu__@c-363c71d5.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:19:49 *** bonghits4jesus [~bonghit@2.9.354a.static.theplanet.com] has joined #openttd 01:21:58 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:30:56 *** bonghits4jesus [~bonghit@2.9.354a.static.theplanet.com] has quit [autokilled: This host has violated network policy. Mail support@oftc.net with questions (2008-03-23 01:30:56)] 01:33:32 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 01:35:47 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B760D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 01:42:15 *** Eddi|zuHause4 [~johekr@p54B7529F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:43:26 *** De_Ghosty [~s@cpe0050ba8caf2c-cm0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:55:54 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: <:] 02:41:47 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-45-130.adslplus.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:24 <Digitalfox> OMFG 0.6 Branch =0 02:48:17 <Digitalfox> I go to the disco to celebrate my 2 years of relationship with my girlfriend and find the 0.6 branch.. Nice Work guys =0 02:48:34 <Digitalfox> I have to go more times to the disco lol 02:50:41 <DaleStan> Maybe then we'll get more 0.6 branches? 02:50:57 <a1270> Discos still exist? I thought for sure they were banned. 02:52:02 <Digitalfox> well in portugal we call it "discoteca" so i thought the translation would be disco.. 02:52:16 <Digitalfox> maybe i'm wrong 02:54:03 <Digitalfox> I guess Nightclub is a better translation =0 02:54:11 <a1270> ah 02:55:24 <Digitalfox> The strange thing is that i have 24 and on over 1000 folks i think i was the older one :\ 03:03:43 <Eddi|zuHause2> it gets worse ;) 03:19:23 *** vip [Raggaman@77.38.169.14] has joined #openttd 03:22:30 *** vip [Raggaman@77.38.169.14] has quit [] 03:23:16 <Sacro> Digitalfox: Discoteque i think 03:23:56 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 03:23:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> surely not with 'th'? 03:24:07 <Sacro> theque? 03:24:22 <Sacro> DiscothÚque :p 03:25:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's spoken the same way in german 03:26:53 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:27:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> like the nordic god of thunder (Thor) is spoken the same as the football goal (Tor) 03:29:50 <Eddi|zuHause2> you know what's worse than people who quote the entire post to just say "thanks"? 03:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> people who make that a double-post :p 03:39:32 *** gfldex_ [~dex@dslb-088-074-155-099.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 03:41:24 *** gfldex [~dex@dslb-088-074-164-032.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:58:56 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 04:00:13 *** Osai^zZz`off is now known as Osai 04:05:07 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 04:13:45 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 04:14:42 *** De_Ghosty [~s@CPE0050ba8caf2c-CM0011aec4b06a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 04:21:44 *** RamboRonny [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 04:22:15 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B760D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:22:18 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B760D7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 04:22:39 *** Aerandir [magic.powe@90-230-201-111-no37.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:39 *** RamboRonny is now known as Aerandir 04:27:43 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 04:28:34 *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@89.246.174.237] has joined #openttd 04:33:07 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 04:35:11 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.191.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:05:48 *** UFO64 [~UFO64@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 05:10:46 *** UFO64 [~UFO64@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [] 05:38:16 <Eddi|zuHause2> haha, it's completely white outside ;) 05:40:20 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 05:47:47 *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-76-30-125-86.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:16 *** Nitehawk [~nitehawk@c-76-30-125-86.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 05:48:31 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:36 *** DorpsGek [truelight@openttd.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:48 *** DorpsGek [truelight@81.171.98.110] has joined #openttd 05:54:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 06:22:48 *** Digitalfox_ [~Digitalfo@bl7-185-94.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 06:22:54 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-185-94.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:23:19 *** a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd 06:28:12 *** UserErr0r [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 06:31:56 *** UserError [~User@c-98-202-77-105.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:56:56 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12397 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange [FS#1856]: enumify widget number for time tables. Patch by Phil Sophus. 07:34:20 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host220-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 07:34:25 <Wolf01> hello 07:35:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12398 /trunk/ (8 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange [FS#1770]: Move toolbar related code to it's own little neighbourhood. Based on a patch by Dominik. 07:35:55 <peter1138> Hee 07:38:28 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcf06.f.ppp-pool.de] has joined #openttd 07:40:59 <Wolf01> OMG O_O http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36764 07:44:19 <mrfrenzy> hi wolf01 07:44:33 <mrfrenzy> If you like it I suggest you do some encouraging in the thread 07:44:57 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F56531.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:45:20 * Rubidium gives it a 10% chance to succeed (and that's probably even too optimistic) 07:46:14 <Wolf01> that guy is a legend... if only he can finish all his good patches 07:47:54 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-45-130.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 07:52:12 <peter1138> Hmm, proper snow :o 07:52:17 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 07:52:33 <yorick> hello 07:55:16 <Wolf01> hi 08:16:44 *** jez [andreis@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 08:16:47 *** jez is now known as jez9999 08:16:49 <jez9999> @seen Bjarni 08:16:50 <DorpsGek> jez9999: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 11 hours, 28 minutes, and 20 seconds ago: <Bjarni> lol 08:16:55 <yorick> hello 08:16:58 <yorick> oh noes 08:25:22 <jez9999> hmm 08:25:33 <jez9999> what is the purpose of INVALID_STRING_ID? 08:25:42 <yorick> being invalid 08:26:16 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11DF0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 08:26:18 <jez9999> seems like it gets passed to things like ShowErrorMessage 08:26:23 <yorick> all these things have an INVALID type, so they added one to STRING_ID aswell 08:27:45 <jez9999> i cant seem to find a string in english.txt that matches up with it 08:27:48 <jez9999> so im wondering what it prints out 08:27:56 <yorick> nothing 08:30:51 <yorick> or maybe it asserts 08:33:10 <jez9999> hmm 08:33:14 <jez9999> does seem to just cause a blank error 08:33:16 <jez9999> curious 08:49:21 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11DF0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 08:50:51 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 08:53:40 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 08:54:24 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F56531.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:54:45 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC 09:12:35 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has joined #openttd 09:17:49 *** planetmaker is now known as pm_away 09:30:12 *** mikl [~mikl@gw.imtnet.dk] has joined #openttd 09:33:08 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 09:36:50 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1FAD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:45 *** einKarl [~einKarl@p549928E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 09:46:06 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-45-130.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:53:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@77-103-231-158.cable.ubr05.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 09:59:31 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 10:01:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1D8A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 10:15:00 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:52 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 10:23:35 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-45-130.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 10:24:50 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:29:27 <yorick> !seen LordAzamath 10:29:33 <yorick> @seen LordAzamath 10:29:33 <DorpsGek> yorick: LordAzamath was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 22 hours, 6 minutes, and 17 seconds ago: <LordAzamath> (::)::(::) 10:31:04 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1FAD5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:11 <jez9999> hi 10:38:24 <jez9999> i need to create a dynamic array for an OpenTTD patch i'm developing 10:38:34 <jez9999> i'm going do be, during a loop, adding certain entries to it 10:38:53 <jez9999> i'm not going to be able to know how many entries there will be, so i need to be able to keep adding to it dynamically 10:39:00 <yorick> oh 10:39:02 <jez9999> what's the standard way of doing this in Openttd? 10:39:18 <jez9999> do we have some dynamic array class we use in C++? is there some example dynamic array code you can point me to? 10:39:20 <yorick> using a c++ way 10:39:23 <Maedhros> std::list, probably 10:39:35 <jez9999> is that typically used in the openttd codebase? 10:39:42 <jez9999> im wanting to stick to the openttd coding style 10:40:04 <Tefad> http://adrinael.net/containerchoice.png 10:40:23 <Maedhros> it's used in a few places, yes 10:40:33 <Maedhros> but then so is malloc / realloc 10:41:55 <jez9999> Tefad: hmm interesting 10:42:04 <jez9999> i come out with vector or deque, for that 10:42:41 <jez9999> i guess it might be easier to get help on list, tho 10:42:45 <jez9999> more people are likely to use it 10:43:29 <Tefad> list is a doubly linked array 10:43:39 <Tefad> it's good for when you're processing arbitrary amounts of data 10:44:02 <Tefad> say.. you query a database and you could have 5 results come back.. or 5000... 10:44:14 <Tefad> list is good for that 10:44:20 <jez9999> or... someone drags over a matrix of 4 squares... or 400 10:44:42 <Tefad> perhaps.. 10:45:16 <Tefad> if you know the size of the area before you populate memory, you should use something like deque or vector 10:45:36 <Rubidium> use a pool 10:45:47 <jez9999> not really, because im not storing info on every square 10:45:55 <jez9999> only squares that fulfil a certain criterion 10:46:09 <jez9999> im building that store up as i go along 10:46:20 <Rubidium> then you want a map of some sort and not a list/array/vector 10:47:08 <jez9999> that assumes i need to find an element by key 10:47:13 <jez9999> do i? 10:47:29 <Rubidium> well, if you can't use a pool then yes 10:47:39 <jez9999> why cant i use a pool? 10:48:07 <Rubidium> you said "not really" after I said to use a pool 10:48:07 <Tefad> key or index? 10:48:18 <jez9999> i was responding to Tefad 10:48:23 <jez9999> <Tefad> if you know the size of the area before you populate memory,... 10:48:37 <Tefad> if you're building something by hand and you don't know how many you're going to end up with, use list as intermediate 10:48:43 <Tefad> then you can pass it as whatever you want 10:48:56 <jez9999> i must confess ive never heard of a deque 10:48:58 <jez9999> what is that? 10:49:43 <Tefad> double ended queue 10:51:24 <jez9999> might that be better than a list for this purpose 10:51:33 <jez9999> i think in C#, the List<> basically is a deque 10:51:49 <jez9999> in fact im not sure what the difference between a list and queue is; i always thought List preserved order too 10:51:49 <Tefad> lists have great use of pointers 10:52:01 <Tefad> deque/vector usually allocated contiguous memory 10:52:19 <jez9999> ok i'll go for a std::list then 10:52:27 <jez9999> next thing: in C#, i happily dont worry about this 10:52:33 <Tefad> lists have more memory overhead 10:52:39 <jez9999> in c++; do i need to worry about memory management when using std::list? 10:52:50 <Tefad> vectors/deques suck when you keep growing your memory size. 10:52:50 <jez9999> what's the process of using it 10:52:56 <jez9999> yeah i'll use a list 10:52:58 <Tefad> (lists allocate each element separately) 10:53:26 <jez9999> what's the c++ overall process 10:53:29 <Tefad> jez9999: you can use a list just like you would use a vector, it's transparent 10:53:35 <jez9999> in C# it's basically new List<>... add stuff... then forget 10:53:46 <Tefad> it's a basic container 10:53:51 <jez9999> in c++ is there a destructor or something you must call? 10:54:26 <Tefad> not unless you're doing fancy stuff 10:54:33 <jez9999> fancy stuff? 10:54:50 <jez9999> i always thought in C++ you had to manually dispose of objects to avoid mem leaks 10:56:52 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 10:58:49 <jez9999> anyone? 11:00:58 <Maedhros> if you allocate them with new, then you have to delete them 11:01:36 <Maedhros> in the case of things like containers, the memory they allocate will be freed when the container goes out of scope and the destructor is called 11:01:57 *** Keir [~blah@thespinneys.plus.com] has joined #openttd 11:04:18 <Keir> hey 11:04:26 <Keir> does anyone know where I can rent an openttd server from? 11:06:27 <jez9999> i'll rent you one 11:06:29 <jez9999> 0/mo 11:06:30 <Keir> ooo 11:06:31 <Keir> ah 11:06:37 <jez9999> :-) 11:06:40 <Keir> i'm sure i can find one cheaper :P 11:06:42 <jez9999> /mo 11:06:55 <Keir> and u got a deal :P 11:07:05 <jez9999> paypal's fees will be that much :-) 11:07:14 <jez9999> god i hate paypal 11:07:19 <Keir> lol no they wont 11:07:30 <jez9999> what do you want it for anyway 11:07:40 <Keir> umm 11:07:45 <Keir> to host an openttd server with :) 11:08:00 <jez9999> i know but do you have a bunch of people who definitely wanna play on it? 11:08:06 <jez9999> or are you gonna put it online and hope for the best? :-) 11:08:23 <Keir> well there's me and a mate who play regularaly and other than that, to hope for the best :) 11:09:04 <jez9999> hmm 11:09:14 <jez9999> i wonder whether anyone's gotten the openttd server working on CentOS... 11:09:46 <mrfrenzy> why should it not 11:10:22 *** Keir [~blah@thespinneys.plus.com] has quit [] 11:11:13 <jez9999> there's no downloadable RPM build of openttd 11:11:14 <jez9999> :-( 11:11:18 <jez9999> just a horrid .deb 11:11:28 *** Keir [~blah@thespinneys.plus.com] has joined #openttd 11:11:31 <Keir> i hate irc 11:11:34 <Keir> so can u rent one? 11:11:45 <jez9999> im just investigating, Keir 11:11:47 <Keir> ah ok thnx 11:11:50 <jez9999> i'll need to install it on CentOS 11:11:58 <jez9999> wonder if anyone's done it 11:12:02 <jez9999> what version of the server do you want 11:12:09 <Keir> 0.6.0 beta 5 preferably 11:12:15 <jez9999> hmm that'll need compiling 11:12:20 <jez9999> hmmm 11:12:30 <mrfrenzy> jez9999: just compile it, it's a breeze 11:12:43 <jez9999> on 'doze, i had to download tons of stuff to compile it :-) 11:12:49 <Rubidium> jez9999: that's because nobody ever has been bothered enough to make rpms 11:12:50 <jez9999> not sure about ni 11:12:51 <jez9999> nix 11:13:23 <mrfrenzy> atleast on debian you would only need to install the build-essential package and you have all tools needed to build it 11:15:56 <Maedhros> Keir: i'm sure you could get a good deal from orudge (zernebok.com) :) 11:16:50 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:16:50 *** roboboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:56 <yorick> keir: you know about FREE server hosting services, myottd.net? 11:19:50 <Keir> nope? lol 11:20:01 <yorick> now you do :-) 11:20:06 <Keir> the site doesnt load lol 11:20:20 <Keir> oh wait it does 11:20:31 <yorick> but it's laggy 11:20:40 <yorick> its the same server where the ottd runs upon 11:20:40 <jez9999> does it let you run whatever build you want? 11:20:50 <yorick> dunno 11:22:02 <Keir> it doesnt have beta5 :( 11:22:25 <yorick> hmm...jez is very cheap aswell :) 11:49:26 *** pm_away is now known as planetmaker 11:51:19 <jez9999> weird 11:51:23 <jez9999> my server is online 11:51:26 <jez9999> i can connect to it via telnet 11:51:39 <jez9999> yet openttd just says 'SEVRER OFFLINE', seems to make no attempt to connect when i add it 11:52:46 <yorick> firewall? 11:53:26 <jez9999> i enabled it, and can connect to other servers 11:56:02 <jez9999> i dont get it 11:56:17 <jez9999> it's made apparently no attempt to connect to it 11:56:23 <jez9999> the server is accepting connections just fine 11:56:43 <jez9999> does my server need to be in the list that openTTD gets its "Find servers" from before it will connect to a server? 11:58:13 <yorick> no 11:58:36 <yorick> only when server_advertise is on 12:05:07 <jez9999> according to Wireshark, it's not even sending out a UDP packet! 12:05:11 <jez9999> when i click on refresh server 12:05:21 <jez9999> i wonder if that whole 'add server' functionality is kaput 12:09:29 <yorick> maybe company_info is done using a tcp packet? 12:12:16 *** Volley [~worf@84.119.67.68] has joined #openttd 12:13:04 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:18:11 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 12:18:19 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:24 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-180-83.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 12:25:05 *** Wolf01|AWAY [~wolf01@host220-173-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:26 <jez9999> how often is the master server list refreshed 12:25:28 <jez9999> for openttd? 12:26:44 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host61-236-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 12:28:39 <Rubidium> in what sense? 12:29:31 <Rubidium> new servers: immediatelly, servers going away that notify the ms: immediatelly, servers going away without telling it: within 5 minutes, updating the game stats: every 5 minutes. 12:29:41 *** Osai is now known as Osai`off 12:29:58 <Rubidium> client rerequesting the server list: whenever the user clicks the button (or opens the window) 12:48:26 * yorick wants to see extra flags so he can go on with flags in client list 12:48:40 <yorick> :) 12:52:47 *** Osai`off is now known as Osai 13:00:11 <yorick> I would say that [FS# 1868] is a feature request instead of a bug 13:07:05 <yorick> Jez9999: was it you that was working on the train-tracktype-upgrade? 13:08:19 <yorick> I said something like it was already done, didn't I? 13:08:24 <yorick> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1859 <-- there is your proof 13:09:25 *** einKarl [~einKarl@p549928E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:40 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:09:41 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:10:09 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F56531.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 13:13:26 <yorick> the difficulty options window lacks a close button 13:16:55 <Volley> i just tested "Timetable based separation patch" ( needed some manual merging with my YAPP patched version), played around, had fun, but basically i think all this seperation stuff could go way more easily... shouldn't a "wait until full loaded or other train of shared order list arrives"- option in the train orders do? 13:17:19 <glx> yorick: there's a cancel button 13:17:37 <yorick> which isn't on the top left, while I like buttons to be on the top left 13:17:46 <yorick> its just...consistency that's missing 13:17:51 *** Digitalfox_ [~Digitalfo@bl7-185-94.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:18:05 <glx> there was a close button, but it has been removed because it confused many players 13:18:15 <yorick> every other window has a close button 13:18:20 *** Digitalfox [~Digitalfo@bl7-185-94.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd 13:18:50 <glx> no you have an explicit apply or dismiss 13:19:35 <yorick> then remove the cancel button and readd the close button 13:20:15 <yorick> even confirmation windows have a close button ;) 13:21:02 *** Scotch [~Scotch@d83-182-168-42.cust.tele2.be] has joined #openttd 13:21:15 <yorick> don't you have an explicit apply or dismiss on confirmation windows? 13:24:42 *** LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 13:25:17 <yorick> LordAzamath! You've returned! 13:25:27 <LordAzamath> almost 13:25:40 * yorick goes celebrating and dancing 13:25:52 <LordAzamath> ALMOST 13:26:31 * yorick presses pause button for music 13:26:40 <yorick> how do you mean, 'almost'? 13:28:48 *** llugo [lugo@p4FD5F5B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:33:39 *** LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: So much of my here-being] 13:35:50 *** lugo [lugo@p4FD5C771.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:41:36 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-29-175.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:00:11 *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:01:49 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F56531.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 14:08:31 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1D7F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:08:33 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:10:07 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E6C.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 14:12:27 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 14:37:34 *** Pinchiukas [~lox@212.122.90.186] has joined #openttd 14:38:11 <Pinchiukas> I tell a truck to go to a lorry station near a sawmill that produces goods, load up some boxes, go to a town and unload them, but it doesn't get any money for that, what gives? 14:39:00 <yorick> have you set overload? 14:39:07 <yorick> err...transfer* 14:39:15 <yorick> darn translations 14:39:37 <Pinchiukas> set what? 14:40:04 <yorick> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Orders 14:45:07 <shodan> Pinchiukas: easiest thing is not to set 'unload' 14:47:59 <Pinchiukas> ok now everything seems fine, but there is a bunch of goods standing in the station 14:48:15 <yorick> which means your station didn't accept goods 14:50:37 *** Volley [~worf@84.119.67.68] has quit [] 14:57:05 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-218-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 15:02:50 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:03:48 <Pinchiukas> yorick: why? 15:04:29 <Maedhros> because you don't have any houses near the station that accept goods 15:09:46 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:09:59 <Pinchiukas> ok, why would the local authority not allow me to build a bus station or a lorry station? 15:12:21 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:51 *** Sacro` [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 15:14:20 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:15:21 *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:15:49 <yorick> hmm....we need official openttd MP servers! 15:17:19 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:19:06 <Pinchiukas> yep 15:23:36 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:29:22 *** lestat_spanish [~Mesias7.4@87.223.193.135] has joined #openttd 15:29:28 <lestat_spanish> hi all 15:29:31 <lestat_spanish> hola a todos 15:30:12 <yorick> and now you appear here? 15:30:44 <yorick> yes, people can remove parts that connect stations to make them appear joined afterwards 15:31:04 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:31:17 <yorick> btw, this channel is english only 15:31:38 <ln> yes, and may i also say that this channel is ENGLISH ONLY 15:31:45 *** RichK67 [~RichK67@194.164.100.143] has joined #openttd 15:32:45 <RichK67> hi 15:33:18 <yorick> hello RichK 15:33:32 <yorick> I've looked at the bits for houses 15:34:05 <RichK67> i would guess i could steal bit 15 of m2... since i cant see there being > 32768 towns 15:34:30 <yorick> @calc 2048*2048/32768 15:34:30 <DorpsGek> yorick: 128 15:34:36 <yorick> @calc 2048*2048 15:34:36 <DorpsGek> yorick: 4194304 15:34:48 <yorick> ah yeah, it would probably fit 15:35:35 <yorick> lets see, m6 bit 2 is free if newhouses is activated 15:35:35 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:42 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 15:35:50 <RichK67> but ill do whatever Rubidium suggests, since otherwise ill get complaints - heck, i get them anyway 15:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> <yorick> @calc 2048*2048/32768 <- what exactly should this calculation yield? "average 'square tiles' per town"? 15:35:59 <yorick> if not activated, m7 bits 7..4 are free 15:36:17 <RichK67> cant assume its not activated 15:36:17 <yorick> probably 15:36:30 <yorick> m6 bit 2 is free if newhouses is activated 15:36:43 <yorick> you only need one? 15:37:02 <RichK67> yup, and m6 bit 2 would be very nice (its the one im using elsewhere) 15:37:40 <RichK67> if newhouse.... bits 7..2 : Current animation frame (bits 5..0); bit 6 in m3 15:37:51 <RichK67> m6 bit 2 used 15:38:03 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-167.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:38:12 <yorick> you could use 2 different bits? 15:38:28 <lestat_spanish> 15:38:28 <lestat_spanish> As a question can I do to have two separate stations late the same station? 15:38:34 <RichK67> yeah - id just switch which bit to look at based on tile type 15:38:49 <yorick> lestat_spanish: I already answered it to you 15:39:13 <RichK67> slightly ugly, but my philosophy is prove it works first, then make it pretty 15:39:35 <yorick> but, can't you switch between m6 bit 2 if newhouses is activated and m7 bit 4 if not? 15:40:04 <RichK67> m6 bit 2 is *used* when newhouses in use 15:40:10 <lestat_spanish> 15:40:11 <lestat_spanish> Forgiveness was in the bathroom and was not English 15:40:37 <lestat_spanish> I am using the translator google 15:40:51 <yorick> ah, ignored that lestat guy, now, m6 bit 2 is not, landscape.html says 15:41:14 <yorick> m6 :* If newhouses is activated 15:41:14 <yorick> o bits 7..3 : Current animation frame 15:41:14 <yorick> o bit 2 : free 15:41:45 <RichK67> not in the docs im looking at... (ex-trunk) 15:41:57 <yorick> you might want to try trunk 15:42:44 <lestat_spanish> ~yorick~ Do not be so wrong 15:42:58 <RichK67> just synced to trunk... here is the quote: 15:42:59 <RichK67> m6 : 15:42:59 <RichK67> 15:42:59 <RichK67> * If newhouses is activated 15:42:59 <RichK67> o bits 7..2 : Current animation frame (bits 5..0); bit 6 in m3 15:42:59 <RichK67> * Standard behaviour 15:43:01 <RichK67> o bits 7..2 : lift position (for houses type 04 and 05) 15:43:01 <RichK67> * bits 1..0 : tropic zone specifier 15:43:15 <lestat_spanish> It does good 15:43:15 <yorick> wait-yes-animation frames got extended 15:43:42 <lestat_spanish> Someone throws a game? 15:44:56 <yorick> @openttd commit 12347 15:44:57 <DorpsGek> yorick: Commit by frosch :: r12347 /trunk (5 files in 2 dirs) (2008-03-06 14:21:10 UTC) 15:44:58 <DorpsGek> yorick: -Feature(ette): Increase house animation frame number from 32 to 128. 15:45:23 <yorick> grr 15:48:10 <yorick> which basically means nothing is free when newhouses are enabled 15:48:34 <RichK67> yup, although i am sure that m2 bit 15 wont exactly be missed for a very very long time 15:49:20 <yorick> but it is possible to build that many towns on a 2048 map 15:50:31 <yorick> and what if it will go being missed? 15:50:50 <RichK67> possible, but highly improbable... as you showed, you would have to have only 128 tiles per town ie 16x8 max. call it 11 squared: minimum separation is more than that 15:51:07 <lestat_spanish> 87.223.193.135 15:51:12 <RichK67> and that assumes no space lost to edge tiles, etc 15:51:15 <lestat_spanish> Someone throws a game? 15:51:54 <yorick> hmm...yes 15:52:03 <yorick> and with the extra large maps patch? 15:52:13 <yorick> **future** 15:52:32 <RichK67> doesnt increase the surface area beyond 2kx2k 15:52:46 <yorick> I think it does 15:53:10 <yorick> it makes 4096*4096 possible 15:54:17 <RichK67> there are two versions. One with "reasonable" limits (max 8192 map, max 4 Mi tiles (2^22)) that aims for trunk 15:55:00 <yorick> and that makes 8192x8192 possible 15:55:09 <RichK67> no - work it out 15:55:19 <yorick> weren't you saying something about thinking about future? 15:55:21 <RichK67> 2^22 = 2048x2048 15:55:25 <RichK67> yeah 15:55:27 <RichK67> i know 15:55:39 <yorick> be carefull 15:55:40 <RichK67> its obviously not an adequate solution 15:57:19 <Wolf01> hi RichK67, I noticed the screens of your new work, really nice, congratulations, I hope you'll finish it :D 15:57:51 <RichK67> its an experiment - it might not fly 15:58:03 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 15:58:14 <RichK67> but it does look seriously cool though ;) :) 15:58:29 <RichK67> just breaks a lot of things ;) 15:58:33 <yorick> m3 bits 5432 seem exploitable 15:58:48 <lestat_spanish> bye 15:58:56 <yorick> bye 15:58:58 *** lestat_spanish [~Mesias7.4@87.223.193.135] has quit [Quit: MESIAS 7.4 by: Lois & JAP- http://www.lois.infierno.org] 15:59:22 <RichK67> once a house is complete, m3 is fully used for date of build 15:59:39 <RichK67> bah 15:59:40 <RichK67> m5 16:00:03 <yorick> I don't know how, but landscape #2 says "bit is accessed, but does not really have a meaning (e.g. owner of clear land is always OWNER_NONE)" 16:00:08 <RichK67> m3 bit 5 : bit 6 of current animation frame (see m6) 16:00:25 <RichK67> m3 bits 4..0 : triggers activated (newhouses) 16:00:57 <yorick> maybe the triggers could be compressed? 16:01:39 <yorick> I don't know though 16:03:27 <yorick> you could decrease animation counter to 49 16:04:50 <RichK67> i would rather add m8, than damage someone else's developments 16:06:02 <yorick> then m8 would be a bool? 16:06:45 <RichK67> nah add a full byte, and then i would probably relocate all snow/desert related bits into it, so m8 represents all climate related info 16:06:47 *** Tefad [~tefad@c-71-63-29-175.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:07:01 <yorick> how does ttdpatch cope with extra bits needed? 16:07:31 <RichK67> this is not for patch... and wont work on it 16:07:50 <yorick> that's right, but I'm just curious 16:08:26 <RichK67> afaik, patch cannot load any OTTD game, so it cant handle what we have already 16:09:25 <yorick> no, I mean, I guess ttdpatch needs map array bits aswell someway, how do they do it, also by extending the map array someway? 16:10:14 <RichK67> no idea... ive never really paid much/any attention to their internals. its enough hassle trying to cope with the mess of newgrf 16:11:32 <Eddi|zuHause2> my "educated guess" is that [savegame wise] new data is stored in new chunks, to keep upwards compatibility for old versions that cannot understand this chunk 16:12:34 <yorick> I guess adding m8 would solve most of the problems RickK has 16:13:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> what are you trying to do anyway? 16:13:29 <yorick> then relocate density, ground type in it 16:13:40 <yorick> he's finding a free bit for houses 16:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i figured that, but why? 16:14:06 <yorick> to have tropical, arctic, temperate in one map 16:14:07 <RichK67> yeah - as i say, there is climate info splattered all over the place - eg. snow is m4 bit 3..0=C in rails, m5 bit 4..2=4 in clear, m3 bit 7 in roads, etc 16:14:48 <RichK67> Eddi|zuHause2: i have a prototype working, but houses are a pain, as they use all bits 16:14:52 <yorick> we could have snow-aware default towns aswell 16:15:03 <RichK67> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36764 16:15:55 <yorick> and m6 bits 1..0 16:16:17 <yorick> I would say: go for m8! 16:17:02 <RichK67> my experiment expands the tropiczone to m6 0..2, where 0=temperate, 1=arctic, 3=toyland, 4=tropic normal, 5=tropic desert, 6=tropic rain 16:17:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/openttd/terrain.png <- have you considered these? 16:18:17 <yorick> do you need 3 bits for that? 16:18:48 <RichK67> that looks nice 16:19:09 *** Maedhros [~jc@i-195-137-43-74.freedom2surf.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:46 <RichK67> its an experiment - i needed a way to store more climate info, and we already had 4 states available using the common-to-all tropiczone, so i just added one bit and redefined it 16:20:15 <RichK67> m8 would be nice, and using that 8 bit version would be cool 16:20:52 <RichK67> i could then make old and new entirely switchable: use old settings, or use m8 16:22:22 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:22:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure what a switch like this should achieve 16:23:20 <yorick> I'm going for m8 16:24:21 <RichK67> keeping some people happy? one side effect of the all-climate terrain is that some newgrfs that are climate dependant will get broken by it, as the TTDP newgrf wont be able to query the new climate settings correctly 16:24:25 <yorick> we could extend to toyland aswell 16:24:40 <yorick> hmm 16:24:47 <yorick> OpenGFX does so 16:24:49 <RichK67> yeah, i noticed that - have climate as 0..2, with 4=toyland 16:25:20 <RichK67> opengfx does sprite replacement globally, i have to keep all graphics in memory at the same time 16:25:31 <yorick> grf's should be able to define 2 versions of the snow sprite: one to be used for temperate, other one for arctic snow 16:25:52 <RichK67> its already got temperate snow working 16:26:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> apo'strophe's 'should not be abu'sed 16:26:15 <yorick> I'm used to it 16:26:26 <RichK67> pedants untie 16:27:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> it has nothing to do with "pedants"... it's occasionally a big problem for non-native speakers to do on-the-fly error-compensation 16:27:17 <yorick> another problem: what industries should go where? what cargo should towns accept? which vehicles could be used where? 16:28:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: all newgrf 16:29:00 <yorick> should water & food be available anywhere? or only to be built at depots in tropic or arctic zone? 16:29:04 <RichK67> yup, my current compromise is that you get the buildings and industries of whatever is the "base" climate you select - so you either get a temperate/arctic/tropic industry set.... or, someone nice could actually produce an all-climates-industries newgrf :) 16:29:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: the default climates should not be changed, only the possibility of a combination opened 16:29:34 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:30:13 <yorick> that 2 answers can't really be combined ^^ 16:30:34 <yorick> one is talking about base climate, other about "mixed" climate 16:30:41 <RichK67> i did once ask in the TTDP forum, but they werent too receptive to something that would only work in OTTD 16:30:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> hihi ;) 16:31:07 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F3361.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 16:31:57 <RichK67> the "base" climate is the one you select when you generate.... it then creates the world with that climate's attributes, but with the map painted in the other climates' terrain as appropriate 16:32:07 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:32:12 <RichK67> its just an experiment, so anything is up for change though 16:32:33 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:58 <RichK67> my preference would be to have all climates available, all houses of all climate available, all industries, etc... but one step at a time 16:33:49 <RichK67> and then, once it is working, you can always restrict the map back to one climate if desired 16:34:30 <RichK67> ie. the current climate selections are a subset of the whole world climate 16:35:42 <yorick> and how are maps supposed to be generated? 16:35:49 <yorick> what zone should go where? 16:35:55 <yorick> north-to-south? 16:36:03 <RichK67> have you looked at my screenshots? 16:36:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: those are map generator options, they should all be user-adjustable 16:36:59 <yorick> the North pole is arctic, Northen hemisphere is temperate, the southern one is desert, and the south pole is a secret toyland pinguing utopia? 16:37:01 <RichK67> ive generated the climate zones using the perlin random noise algorithms, but done in large swathes, rather than the finer terrain detail 16:37:25 <RichK67> no toyland in the auto generator 16:37:35 <yorick> hehe 16:38:01 <Eddi|zuHause2> civ has a lot of generators for climate zones 16:38:15 <RichK67> its more a concept of concentric rings - it doesnt make sense to have arctic next to tropic without some temperate inbetween, so thats what ive created 16:38:36 <RichK67> but look at the screens 16:38:48 <yorick> I did 16:40:32 <RichK67> ok, ill just generate another random one, and post it 16:42:34 <RichK67> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=88309 16:43:02 <yorick> hmm 16:43:15 <yorick> snow agains tropical 16:43:39 <RichK67> snow in temperate against tropical ... a problem not yet resolved 16:43:46 <RichK67> its not arctic snow 16:44:08 <yorick> like desert against temperate 16:44:21 <RichK67> yup, there are missing "transitions" 16:44:51 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:44:55 <RichK67> NB as i said earlier, its experimental (grrr... why do ppl expect completeness on prototypes!) 16:45:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> i see no real problem with snow in tropical (assuming you get transition graphics at a later point) 16:45:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe with different snow lines (-1 for arctic, +1 for tropic) 16:45:42 <yorick> think real 16:46:00 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 16:46:07 <RichK67> already have that changing snowline - snowline in temperate is +1 relative to arctic 16:46:18 <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i noticed ;) 16:46:39 <RichK67> yorick: my kilamanjaro has permanent icecap on the equator - its tropical 16:46:56 <RichK67> mt not my 16:49:02 <yorick> there is a tropical thing inbetween desert and rainforest, isn't there? 16:49:10 <RichK67> personally, i would like to have arctic deserts (eg. Gobi), temperate deserts (Asian steppe in summer) 16:49:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: that is calculated on-the-fly 16:49:31 <RichK67> yes, TROPIC_NORMAL - ie grass 16:50:14 <Eddi|zuHause2> (if you mean the grass-desert transition) 16:50:46 <yorick> yes 16:50:47 <RichK67> grass-desert transition is only 1 tile of "mixed" 16:50:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: well, with 3 bits you have 8 terrain types at your disposal ;) 16:51:43 *** LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 16:51:53 <RichK67> LA! 16:51:59 <yorick> for a momen 16:52:00 <yorick> t 16:52:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: also allow for newgrfs to specify what terrain number should mean something 16:52:05 <yorick> he's taking a break 16:52:25 <LordAzamath> a break.. gotchya 16:52:43 <RichK67> Eddi|zuHause2: ? sorry what do you mean? 16:53:12 <LordAzamath> RichK67: Did you get help from Zephyris? 16:53:13 <yorick> bare rocks, do they exist? 16:53:19 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:53:24 <yorick> rocks have no density? ok, thanks 16:53:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: i mean for newgrfs to redefine terrain types 16:53:41 <Eddi|zuHause2> to mean something other than desert, for example 16:53:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> like swampland or something 16:54:07 <DaleStan> <yorick> no, I mean, I guess ttdpatch needs map array bits aswell someway, how do they do it <-- We allocate the various new arrays (L6, L7, L8) at runtime, if the config calls for it. And then use some magic I don't quite understand so all accesses to them are as fast and as efficient as if they were compile-time allocated. 16:54:19 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:48 <yorick> :D 16:55:03 * LordAzamath got confuzzad 16:55:08 <yorick> you have 8 arrays aswell? 16:55:55 <RichK67> LA: check out the screenies :) Zephyris came up trumps http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=36764 16:57:15 <DaleStan> Yep. L8 doesn't do much yet, though. 16:57:19 *** nzvip [~svip@0x573cf317.hknxx5.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:57:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: we only have two arrays 16:57:37 <Eddi|zuHause2> the names m1..m7 are hysterical 16:57:48 <yorick> 6 and 7 added 16:57:49 <RichK67> Eddi|zuHause2: this will probably not allow newgrfs to redefine anything terrain wise, as they are all geared to overwriting the core terrain graphics, not staying separately resident at the same time 16:58:02 <LordAzamath> aaaaa... 16:58:13 <LordAzamath> RichK67: Any full zoom screenies? 16:58:26 <LordAzamath> I'm interested in transition sprites :P 16:58:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: i know, i mean the far future... 16:58:28 <RichK67> yeah, but they dont show much 16:58:49 <Eddi|zuHause2> once upon a time, in a galaxy far far away... 16:59:10 <RichK67> Eddi|zuHause2: i would have to trap the attempted relocation, and then map over my load of the newterrain sprites 17:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: well, the main idea is to have anything you design now already as newgrf, to not have to add a second logic for newgrf terrains 17:01:42 <Eddi|zuHause2> a newgrf would then provide a number of available terrains, terrain graphics for each terrain number, transition graphics, and maybe a few flags how the terrain should behave (do towns need food? water? etc.) 17:01:55 <RichK67> no go. it will NOT be newgrf... it is and will be a specially prepared (and thus logically organised) sprite set... i need a strict, and predictable sprite order. newgrf does not provide that 17:03:34 <LordAzamath> cu someday 17:03:39 *** LordAzamath [~questionm@ip52.cab21.ltln.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: cu] 17:03:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> why sprite order? you have n terrain sprites, and n/2*(n-1) transition sprites [nxn-triangular matrix] 17:05:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> then some house magic to figure out the proper ground sprite for each house type, and wether it is allowed on this terrain (e.g. swampland might not support skyscrapers) 17:05:19 <yorick> http://pastebin.com/m1614d48 17:06:08 <RichK67> because normally tropical or arctic sprites are loaded in over the temperate tiles. i need to keep all 3 sets active at the same time. to ensure that i can do a simple relocation, i can just multiply the climate 0,1,2,3 by the number of sprites in the set... i dont have to go hunting through the mishmash of newgrf junk to find what i need 17:07:00 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 17:08:02 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't see the problem with that, you can still address the terrain sprites by the terrain index 17:08:11 <yorick> it even allows for another rough/rocks ground thing 17:09:15 <Eddi|zuHause2> what i am trying to say, is, if you design such a complex feature, make it as flexible as you can 17:09:51 <RichK67> my point is that my design *is* simple... its newgrf that is the complicated, and not very useful thing here 17:10:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't see the advantage of hardcoding sprite numbers into the algorithm 17:10:41 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 17:10:44 <RichK67> and i cant wait for the whines from the TTDP side of "this doesnt work with my XYZ newgrf" ... tough, sometimes for progress, the old things must be sacrificed 17:11:37 <RichK67> ok, Eddi|zuHause2, off you go and code your version then... the terrain sprites are hardcoded currently... so nothing changes 17:12:13 <Eddi|zuHause2> solution to that is very simple: only add new terrain types if a newgrf specifies them, if someone wants to add a no-terrain-type-aware grf in the intended way, he can limit it to the climate it was designed for 17:12:15 <RichK67> just take 1 look at sprites.h to see all the current hardcodign 17:12:38 <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think i will do any kind of coding like that ;) 17:12:53 <RichK67> getting other people's hypothetical newgrfs working is the lowest of priorities 17:12:54 * yorick feels like not getting payed attention to 17:13:30 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: it doesn't have to be a priority. if the design is "right", it will "just work" 17:14:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> i just want to point your attention to the fact that people WILL request this at some point 17:15:16 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:15:38 <RichK67> Eddi|zuHause2: noted. and known prior. personally i dont believe in overcomplicating designs just to try to prevent something becoming obsolete 17:16:26 <RichK67> the simple approach here is to say... create an entirely new terrain system first... then worry about how old features can interface with it 17:16:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> the transition: have only default climates -> allow all climates on the same map -> allow to chose to not have all but only few climates -> allow to add my own climate ... is not that far fetched 17:16:52 <RichK67> yorick: nice m8 idea... copied to my notes, thanks 17:16:57 <Eddi|zuHause2> i am not talking about old features... i am talking about next generation features 17:16:58 <yorick> :) 17:17:39 <RichK67> supporting old newgrfs that dont understand the new terrain system is not next gen 17:18:10 <Eddi|zuHause2> no, but creating own terrain types is 17:18:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> and creating new newgrfs that understand the new terrain system 17:19:56 <yorick> newgrfs are further down the implementation list 17:20:08 <RichK67> well, that should actually already work... the new terrain graphics are loaded as ordinary sprites below the newgrf boundary, so you should be able to do normal replacements of them.... adding attributes i dont know - eg. your swamp under skyscraper thing... that may be a loooong way down the list 17:20:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, i am thinking at least 3 steps in advance ;) 17:21:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> i occasionally have problems with people not able to follow me ;) 17:21:16 <RichK67> but the (my) core terrain graphics will not be loaded as newgrf... i need to be 100% sure where they are to make display of them predictable - that is how the existing system works 17:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause2> but what is the problem with a "dynamic" lookup table? 17:21:57 <yorick> waaay down the list 17:22:19 <RichK67> for the moment it overcomplicates it when there is currently no need/demand 17:22:31 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, when you touch the code anyway, you can "do it right" 17:22:50 <yorick> one has to have a base to build upon 17:23:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> instead of leaving it like it is, and when later dynamicising(?) the code, you maybe miss a few instances 17:23:09 <RichK67> i dislike this "do it right"... the only thing "right" at the mo, is anything that works 17:23:51 <yorick> Eddi: do you have any coding experience? If not: then shut up about that waay down the list dynamic stuff :) 17:23:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> well, yes, the first prototype is always to find out "how to _not_ do it" 17:23:59 <RichK67> who is to say what is "right" anyway? 17:23:59 <yorick> thank you ;) 17:25:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: well, probably not me, i just give opinions that you should already have considered yourself 17:25:18 <RichK67> its proof of concept, so it can be a bit of a dogs breakfast... .so far ive proved you can create a terrain that zones nicely, and all the graphics can be displayed at the same time 17:25:22 *** jez [eidos@client-82-27-242-119.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 17:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: yes, but at some point, you have to step out of the prototype phase 17:26:10 <yorick> which is not now 17:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause2> at that point, you should be certain what is "right", not start to think about what is "right" 17:27:01 <yorick> Eddi: do you have any coding experience? If not: then shut up about what is "right" :) 17:27:04 <RichK67> newgrf is always an irritating issue, and i have little truck with newgrf coders who whine that their precious newgrf is broken by a new development... dont whine, update it ;) 17:27:05 <yorick> Thank you ;). 17:27:06 <jez> anyone know when Bjrani might be on? 17:27:06 <Eddi|zuHause2> the prototype phase is about getting "all" ways, and separating out the ones that are "wrong"... 17:27:09 <jez> Bjarni 17:27:17 <yorick> bjarni! where? 17:27:23 <Eddi|zuHause2> all that is left must be "right" 17:27:37 <yorick> @seen Bjarni 17:27:37 <DorpsGek> yorick: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 20 hours, 39 minutes, and 7 seconds ago: <Bjarni> lol 17:27:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> jez: he's probably on some kind of holidays 17:28:09 <Eddi|zuHause2> considering it's easter and stuff ;) 17:28:21 <RichK67> Eddi|zuHause2: if it was up to me, i would scrap the whole terrain system and start afresh; but i want some life, and have better things to do 17:28:22 <jez> hm 17:28:35 <jez> also my openttd server has been set up 17:28:36 <RichK67> apart from that, it would break everything 17:28:50 <jez> but it isnt appearing in the openttd servers list (even tho it is set to advertise) 17:28:52 <jez> any ideas why? 17:29:13 <yorick> forwarded ports? 17:29:15 <yorick> firewall? 17:29:16 <jez> ? 17:29:20 <Eddi|zuHause2> RichK67: it's always an option when doing rewrites: 17:29:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> screw the old system at first 17:29:29 <yorick> provider disables server-ing? 17:29:33 <jez> it doesnt seem to be outputting any errors about advertising 17:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause2> and then reimplement the old system on top of the new system 17:29:40 <yorick> no, thats right 17:29:40 <jez> i have my own dedicated server 17:29:42 <Ammler> is there somewhere a howto for hacking the save? 17:29:42 <yorick> it doesn't 17:29:44 <yorick> forwarded ports? 17:29:47 <jez> and you can connet to and play on it 17:29:48 <yorick> yes 17:29:51 <RichK67> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, i dont believe anything is sacrosanct 17:29:54 <Ammler> for fixing industry bugs 17:29:59 <yorick> there is 17:30:02 <yorick> but not for ottd 17:30:23 <jez> who administers the master openttd server list? 17:30:23 <yorick> ottd saves are compressed and such 17:30:27 <yorick> TrueBrain 17:30:30 <yorick> and he isn't here 17:30:39 <Eddi|zuHause2> jez: then you did forward TCP, but not UDP 17:30:51 <jez> im not forwarding anything 17:30:54 <jez> why would i be forwarding 17:31:01 *** mikl [~mikl@gw.imtnet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:02 <Ammler> yorick: well, uncompressing would be easy 17:31:13 <Ammler> how about the other things? 17:31:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> "forward" meaning "open the firewall port, an make sure the packet arrives at the destination" 17:31:31 <jez> ok 17:31:39 <jez> i opened up all UDP ports for egress 17:31:52 <jez> hence you can connect to and play on the server 17:31:54 <RichK67> ok - im off.... cya 17:31:58 <yorick> and forwarded at router? 17:32:08 <jez> why wouldnt the router forward it? 17:32:14 <yorick> maybe only locals can play when not forwarded 17:32:14 *** RichK67 [~RichK67@194.164.100.143] has quit [Quit: RichK67] 17:32:17 <Eddi|zuHause2> jez: UDP is not used for the game 17:32:21 <Eddi|zuHause2> only for advertising 17:32:22 <yorick> because it's incoming, not outgoing 17:32:51 <jez> i have no reason to believe the router wouldnt be forwarding my udp packets 17:32:59 <jez> although im not sure it's possible to be sure either way 17:33:07 <yorick> if you haven't set it so, it doesn't 17:33:16 <jez> im not in control of the router upstream 17:33:30 <yorick> no, but your home network? 17:33:42 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:33:45 <jez> i have a dedicated server, hosted in a professional dataserver. it runs CentOS. 17:33:55 <yorick> oh 17:34:08 <yorick> have you forwarded 3979 to that pc? 17:34:16 <jez> forwarded? 17:35:08 <Eddi|zuHause2> jez: if playing is possible, but advertising not, then the problem MUST be UDP 17:35:18 <jez> mmm 17:35:27 <jez> how can i debug the problem tho 17:35:37 <yorick> forward UPD 17:35:45 <yorick> port 3978? 17:35:53 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F3361.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:35:58 <Eddi|zuHause2> @openttd ports 17:35:59 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause2: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound) 17:36:29 <Ammler> a dedicated server should have its own ip, so no forwarding needed, I assume 17:36:53 <Eddi|zuHause2> but still the firewall must be set up properly 17:36:55 <Ammler> but you might open the firewall of the server itself 17:37:22 <Ammler> I would disable the firewall for testing... 17:38:01 *** raimar3 [~hawk@p5489E4FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:38:25 <jez> 3978? hmm 17:38:31 <yorick> ..and get the virusses in 17:40:09 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F3361.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 17:42:26 <jez> i had only opened 3979 for ingress UDP 17:42:31 <jez> i'll try also opening 3978 17:44:58 *** raimar2 [~hawk@p5489F264.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:51 <Eddi|zuHause2> PS: yorick: i'm not saying "i have 50 years of coding experience", but there are a few fundamental ground rules that i had quite some success with 17:46:01 <jez> i get: 17:46:02 <jez> dbg: [net] [NET] Resolved master.openttd.org to 81.171.98.111 17:46:02 <jez> dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server 17:46:12 <jez> am i supposed to see something like 'got response from master server;? 17:46:28 <Eddi|zuHause2> like: if a feature takes more than 5 lines, maybe you should spend more time on infrastructure instead 17:47:11 <Eddi|zuHause2> a well designed infrastructure allowes a lot of features with little effort 17:48:40 <Eddi|zuHause2> jez: i can only say what i said before, your UDP port is not open 17:50:52 <jez> but what am i meant to see as output from openttd? 17:51:13 <yorick> exactly that, only "Recieved confirmation from master server", I think 17:53:40 <jez> weird 17:53:43 <glx> [udp] advertising on master server successful 17:53:46 <jez> even when i disable my firewall i dont get that 17:54:04 <jez> just repeatedly 17:54:04 <jez> dbg: [net] [NET] Resolved master.openttd.org to 81.171.98.111 17:54:04 <jez> dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server 17:54:22 <glx> then it can't reach master server 17:54:48 <jez> ah 17:54:51 <jez> it works when i try as root 17:54:56 <jez> so why when im logged in as a user doesnt it 17:55:19 <glx> your user doesn't have rights to go outside maybe 17:55:43 <jez> elinks www.google.com works 17:56:12 <glx> www.google.com doesn't use UDP 17:56:16 <glx> it uses TCP 17:56:35 <jez> i cant think what would be stopping the user's account receiving udp 17:56:44 <jez> iptables is ampty 17:56:48 <jez> empty 17:56:53 <glx> it's not receiving, it's sending 17:57:08 <jez> sending then 18:01:02 *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-218-001.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:08:49 <Pinchiukas> so what makes a bus service profitable? 18:09:24 <Pinchiukas> I've joined a server, blew all my money on an incomplete railway, managed to build two stations in a town and a bus, and it's not profitable! :( 18:12:05 <yorick> oh 18:16:00 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:22:53 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:22:59 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:25:23 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:25:51 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:36:28 *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY 18:40:53 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:40:53 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:41:04 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:41:09 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:59:23 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:59:23 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:07:38 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcf06.f.ppp-pool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:17:36 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 19:20:59 *** Frostregen_ [SADDAM@dslb-084-058-177-183.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 19:23:10 <peter1138> Busy 19:24:18 <ln> Bjarni! 19:24:27 <ln> is not here 19:24:59 <hylje> clever, ln 19:25:05 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcf06.f.ppp-pool.de] has joined #openttd 19:26:41 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-116-182.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:27:09 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 19:29:27 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 19:32:19 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:36:49 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:26 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:39:56 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@e28236.upc-e.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:41:04 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:44:27 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [] 19:44:31 <Pinchiukas> ah, so openttd is something like dopewars :) 19:47:58 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 19:50:21 <Pinchiukas> that's boring :( 19:52:04 <Pinchiukas> what's the point in playing it anyway :( 19:52:45 <peter1138> Hmm? 19:54:29 <Eddi|zuHause2> what's the point in playing? www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%1939.png 19:54:56 *** Zavior [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:00 <mrfrenzy> that url is really fucked up eddi|zuhause2 19:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause2> www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2012.%20Mai%201939.png 19:55:31 <hylje> 300 Multiple Choices 19:55:33 <Eddi|zuHause2> typo 19:55:35 <mrfrenzy> that's better 19:56:43 <Pinchiukas> Eddi|zuHause2: well playing should be fun 19:56:48 <Eddi|zuHause2> it is 19:56:52 <Eddi|zuHause2> big time 19:56:56 <Pinchiukas> not for me :/ 19:57:26 <Pinchiukas> and you pretty much have to wait until the round ends and the server restarts to be able to win 19:58:44 <Eddi|zuHause2> you win in the end, what should be the problem with that? 19:58:59 <jez> Pinchiukas: that's why NoAI will be so good once it's finished and some good AIs are made. ;-) 19:59:20 <Pinchiukas> what's NoAI? 19:59:43 *** Zaviori [~zavior@d195-237-7-156.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:00:07 <Eddi|zuHause2> AI is a computer player 20:00:24 <Eddi|zuHause2> they are really bad, so NoAI is a rewrite of the AI 20:00:53 <Pinchiukas> yeah, I noticed they do some weird shit 20:00:59 <Eddi|zuHause2> it's called NoAI because the first step of implementing a new AI is ripping out all evidence that there ever an AI existed 20:02:28 <jez> what will be cool is we can have an aggressive ai 20:02:39 <jez> and their president photo can be some guy with sunglasses 20:02:42 <jez> then a tentative AI 20:02:51 <jez> and their photo can be some woman looking timid 20:02:52 <jez> haha 20:04:40 <Pinchiukas> well basically openttd sucks cause the time is limited, I'd like the game to continue until there is no place to build anything or something like that 20:05:19 <peter1138> Time is limited?? 20:05:29 <glx> you can play for as long as you want 20:06:24 <Pinchiukas> well the server restarts 20:06:30 <Pinchiukas> doesn't it? :) 20:06:49 <glx> that's a server setting 20:06:59 <glx> it can be changed by server admin 20:07:04 <Pinchiukas> so you can play until the year 9000? 20:07:23 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC 20:07:32 <glx> ~2000000 20:07:43 <glx> year is an int32 value 20:08:18 <Pinchiukas> but with years some technical achievements show up, right? 20:12:36 <Eddi|zuHause2> only if you have designed some, default vehicles stop changing after 2050 20:18:15 *** jez [eidos@client-82-27-242-119.glfd.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [] 20:21:05 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 20:29:13 *** ben_goodger [~ben@host81-153-69-88.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:35:15 *** UFO64 [~UFO64@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #openttd 20:42:29 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 20:51:35 *** elmex [~elmex@p57B1D7F2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:44 *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01 20:58:50 *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F3361.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 21:04:56 *** nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.106.158] has joined #openttd 21:10:36 *** UFO64 [~UFO64@cpe-24-31-128-172.maine.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:13:07 <henkie> is there a way to automatic remove the "void order"? 21:18:14 <planetmaker> hi 21:18:45 <planetmaker> Does anyone know how I can easily tell a savegame or scenario tell to use a certain config file? 21:18:57 <planetmaker> e.g. replace the existing configuration which comes with it? 21:19:02 <Rubidium> you can't 21:19:26 <planetmaker> That's sad to hear :(. So I've to activate all grf by hand? 21:19:57 <glx> modifying grfs in an existing game can lead to crashs 21:20:02 <Ammler> planetmaker: there is patch 21:20:57 <jez9999> what port(s) does openttd use when it's acting as a server 21:21:01 <jez9999> all ports, all protocols; a list 21:21:13 <glx> @openttd ports 21:21:13 <DorpsGek> glx: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound) 21:21:21 <glx> that's all 21:21:25 <Ammler> planetmaker: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35001&hilit=newgrf+window 21:21:40 <Ammler> that should make it easier 21:21:49 <planetmaker> glx: I don't plan to modify a running game. I've created a map and want to change before start 21:22:07 <jez9999> so it DEFINITELY doesnt use any ports under 1024? 21:22:20 <jez9999> because when i run it as a user, it cant seem to advertise to the master server 21:22:22 <jez9999> im stumped by this 21:22:24 <planetmaker> Ammler: right. That looks nice :). I hope for that to make it into trunk 21:22:27 <jez9999> it's ok as root but buggered as user 21:22:44 <Ammler> planetmaker: can't you build it self? 21:23:26 <Rubidium> jez9999: *unless* you for the port to be different in the config files... 21:26:39 *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Wibbly Wobbly IRC] 21:28:55 <Eddi|zuHause2> <planetmaker> glx: I don't plan to modify a running game. I've created a map and want to change before start <- that may still cause trouble, especially with newindustries there have been problems 21:29:07 <jez9999> Rubidium: netstat says it is binding UDP port 3979 21:29:10 <jez9999> :-s 21:29:32 <jez9999> altho not 2978 21:29:33 <jez9999> 3978 21:30:12 <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not recieve on 3978, why should it bind that port? 21:30:58 <Ammler> hmm, newgrf GUI is too old for current trunk 21:31:02 <jez9999> ok 21:31:06 <jez9999> but it has bound udp port 3979 21:31:11 <jez9999> so why the heck isnt it working? 21:31:12 <jez9999> :-( 21:31:35 <jez9999> i just get 21:31:35 <jez9999> dbg: [net] [NET] Resolved master.openttd.org to 81.171.98.111 21:31:35 <jez9999> dbg: [net] [udp] advertising to master server 21:31:48 <jez9999> would it give me an error if it couldnt send? 21:31:55 <jez9999> can i assume that it's failing to receive, not send? 21:32:06 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12399 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Fix: some old DOS savegame didn't load properly due to 'garbage' that was sprinkled in some places. 21:33:23 *** lolman [~John@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:34:25 <jez9999> why do we use UDP, anyway/ 21:34:32 <jez9999> wouldnt tcp be better? udp seems to cause problems 21:37:19 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11C656.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:37:39 <Rubidium> something with windows servers not being able to handle lots of tcp connections... 21:38:01 <Rubidium> and udp being far more efficient resource wise for the masterserver than tcp 21:38:25 <jez9999> who really knows about networking stuff in the openttd team? 21:38:28 <jez9999> i need a word with them 21:38:34 <jez9999> someone needs to help me diagnose the problem 21:40:35 <glx> and udp is the best thing for master server communication 21:41:28 <jez9999> not when linux boxes have problems allowing users to access udp! 21:41:35 <jez9999> it's uttely useless then 21:41:57 <glx> others have no problem with that 21:42:06 <Rubidium> well... if users are not allowed to have udp connections then your system is totally and utterly screwed 21:43:09 <Rubidium> 9 21:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12400 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/completeness.sh: [NoAI] -Fix: reduce the number of false positives in the regression test completeness check script. 21:45:45 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493C67F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:50:45 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11C656.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK] 21:53:15 <Wolf01> hmhmhmhmmh somebody changed the main toolbar? seem that I'm unable to see competitors company info (the dropdown menu doesn't appear) 21:53:21 *** Lillefix [~Hakon@062016172110.customer.alfanett.no] has joined #openttd 21:53:28 <Lillefix> Hello 21:54:09 <Lillefix> I was just wondering, do you have any solutions with the nightly-troubles that comes with leopard? 21:55:30 <jez9999> argh 21:55:40 <jez9999> now i cant even advertise successfully to the master server as root 21:56:39 <Lillefix> No solutions for leopard and nightly? 21:57:33 *** nicfer [~chatzilla@168.226.106.158] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.12/2008020121]] 21:58:51 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11C656.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:59:37 <Digitalfox> Lillefix could you mention the problems you have with leopard? 21:59:51 <Lillefix> Certainly... 22:00:07 *** nicfer [~nicfer@cm187107.red91-117.mundo-r.com] has joined #openttd 22:00:16 <Lillefix> Firefly mentions that the X11 that comes with Leopard is broken 22:00:36 <Lillefix> The app just won`t open 22:00:43 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:44 <glx> Lillefix: many options :) use the ppc version, or compile it yourself 22:00:52 *** helb [~helb@62.240.176.23] has joined #openttd 22:00:55 <Lillefix> trying to compile now... 22:01:08 <Lillefix> I can`t use the ppc version on my macbook...? 22:01:17 <Patrick`> nope. 22:01:23 <Patrick`> well, it would run through rosetta I guess 22:01:27 *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5B11C656.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 22:01:35 <Patrick`> I don't actually know the answer to your question, please ignore me 22:02:06 <Lillefix> Yeah, but rosetta is such an hassle 22:02:56 <Patrick`> there should be universal binaries 22:03:02 <henkie> will there also be newmusic? to complement the newgrfs? 22:03:18 <glx> Patrick`: hard to do when not on a mac 22:03:19 <henkie> will be hard to replace the awesome midi's 22:05:47 <jez9999> im not too fond of those new graphics 22:05:49 <jez9999> the hi-res ones 22:06:07 <jez9999> frankly, unless you want to zoom in to 1000% i see no point in them, and they're not as cute as the normal ttd ones 22:07:33 <Patrick`> well, the new ones are Free To Redistribute 22:07:48 <Patrick`> so with a full set plus free sounds we can finally get a working standalone downloadable product 22:08:01 <Patrick`> and not something nichely-legal like freedoom or UQM 22:12:24 <jez9999> how can i get really verbose debug output from the openttd linux commandline server? 22:12:28 <jez9999> i need network info 22:12:32 <jez9999> like if calls are failing 22:12:38 <henkie> can i still register my server even when it is behind nat? 22:13:00 <glx> henkie: yes if ports are forwarded 22:13:03 <henkie> it now shows as offline 22:13:30 <henkie> glx, only 3978? 22:13:34 <henkie> tcp / udp 22:13:58 <glx> 3979 udp/tcp 22:14:07 <jez9999> DAMNit 22:14:10 <jez9999> i cannot figure this out 22:14:15 <jez9999> even with debuglevel set to 9 22:14:20 <glx> 3978 is the port used to contact master server 22:14:24 <jez9999> it just says that it's advertising to master server, and nothing more 22:14:35 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl5402B358.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd 22:15:05 <henkie> glx, yes my bad, i have the right ports forwarded 22:15:18 <jez9999> the openttd daemon needs more useful output 22:15:20 <henkie> and i can join from an external location 22:15:25 *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc 22:15:27 <jez9999> that's the other problem with udp. you can't easily diagnose the problem 22:15:31 <henkie> still it shows as offline 22:15:34 <jez9999> i mean it just fires off a packet and that's it 22:15:41 <jez9999> how am i meant to diagnose why it isnt working? 22:16:40 <henkie> does it also ping my connection? cause that could be disabled 22:17:13 *** thgergo [~Administr@dsl51B60E6C.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:17:34 <Lillefix> excuse me, but where do I find the config-file in which I am supposed to set the font? 22:18:26 <henkie> i am btw 130.89.163.214 in the server list 22:22:46 <glx> Lillefix: do see questionmarks in intro ? 22:22:52 <glx> *you 22:22:53 <Lillefix> yep 22:23:02 <Lillefix> seems like I am missing openttdw.grf 22:23:06 <glx> version detection failed 22:23:15 <Lillefix> yes 22:23:25 <Lillefix> What did I do wrong? 22:24:23 <glx> latest nightly or pre-r12396 ? 22:24:35 <Lillefix> pre.. it is 12368 22:24:42 <Lillefix> planned to play online 22:24:45 *** xerxes [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 22:25:04 <glx> ok so you need to do ./configure --revision=r12368 22:26:06 <Lillefix> trying as we speak 22:28:36 <henkie> ah, must be because i am behind the same NAT 22:28:55 <henkie> is there a mechanism to transfer the newgrf from the server to the clients? 22:29:11 <glx> no, and there will never 22:29:28 <henkie> cause of possible copyright or virii? 22:29:38 <glx> copyrights 22:29:45 <henkie> k, fair enough 22:30:04 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:30:04 *** xerxes is now known as shodan 22:30:32 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:33:44 <DaleStan> Newgrf virus shouldn't be possible. Doesn't mean "isn't", of course, but TTDPatch, at least, never uses stack buffers for newgrf data, and all code is before the buffer, so any overflow won't hit code either. 22:36:08 *** Sacro` is now known as Sacro 22:36:27 <henkie> it's kinda troublesome to find the right mix of newgrf for me :) 22:38:02 <Lillefix> glx: Thanks, I got it now 22:42:18 *** cyber [~chatzilla@85.138.146.180] has joined #openttd 22:43:10 <cyber> whats openttd ? 22:43:36 <Sacro> whats cyber? 22:46:02 <cyber> well i can tell sacro is the nick of an imbecil ... 22:46:10 <glx> lol 22:48:05 <Sacro> imbecile 22:48:45 <henkie> snap! 22:48:57 *** thgerg1 [~Administr@dsl5402B358.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:19 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:57 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 22:52:49 * Lillefix snaps to! 22:55:50 <cyber> do i need the tt original files to play ? 22:57:27 <Sacro> yep 22:58:09 *** lolman [~john@cpc3-leds2-0-0-cust55.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 22:58:31 <glx> ttd not tt 22:58:55 <henkie> is the game still for sale btw? 22:59:33 <valhallasw> transport tycoon deluxe? no 22:59:58 <lolman> eBay would be best bet for getting a copy of TTD, I would assume 23:00:08 <Sacro> or the other Bay 23:00:18 <lolman> Or that, yes 23:00:21 <henkie> p* ? :) 23:00:26 <lolman> That's of questioned legality though 23:00:31 <Sacro> henkie: yarr 23:01:09 <henkie> :P 23:02:43 *** xerxes [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has joined #openttd 23:03:32 <Wolf01> 'night 23:03:36 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host61-236-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 23:04:15 <henkie> btw, what can i do with the "timetable" feature? or is it just for stats? 23:04:55 <glx> you can use it to force your trains to wait at stations without using "full load" 23:06:06 <henkie> ah i see, but when it states a train is "late", that's just for my info? 23:06:26 <henkie> *info for me 23:06:31 <glx> yes 23:06:32 <henkie> getting late i see 23:06:35 <henkie> k, tnx 23:06:59 <glx> but that be caused by a traffic jam 23:07:04 <glx> may 23:07:21 <henkie> yeah, the bad kind of jam :) 23:07:32 <cyber> i hate transport just because theres no sea faring 23:07:46 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 23:07:59 <cyber> its all about trains 23:08:00 <henkie> then may i suggest another game :) 23:08:20 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:24 <henkie> trains kinda rule 23:08:30 <henkie> planes are way to easy 23:08:51 <cyber> but you cant beat a ship 23:09:00 <henkie> busses are ok, when you have like 2 dollar 23:09:41 <henkie> ships dont run on track, so i dont really dig them 23:10:02 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:10 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 23:10:20 <cyber> well that the fun thing about ships and that they carry lots of goods 23:11:09 <Born_Acorn> Ships aren't fun! They're serious pieces of maritime equipment! 23:11:10 <henkie> yeah, but placing signs and all is fun 23:11:32 <cyber> im no expert but i think boats and trains are the best energy efficients transport means 23:11:59 *** Pinchiukas [~lox@212.122.90.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:13:14 <cyber> mainly for heavy loads 23:21:42 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 23:21:43 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:22:27 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:24:14 *** divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 23:24:14 *** divoafx [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:29 *** Ammller [~Ammler@adsl-84-226-10-64.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd 23:30:25 *** Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-62-167-45-130.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:42:48 *** robotboy [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:42:49 *** roboman [~Leo@c211-30-60-34.carlnfd4.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 23:48:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-180-83.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54:06 *** jez9999 [andreis@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 23:56:01 *** planetmaker_ [~chatzilla@Fcf06.f.ppp-pool.de] has joined #openttd 23:56:18 *** planetmaker [~chatzilla@Fcf06.f.ppp-pool.de] has quit [Quit: bye!] 23:56:28 *** planetmaker_ is now known as planetmaker 23:57:44 *** Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC