Log for #openttd on 27th March 2008:
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00:00:54  <Progman> coop \o/, now we got edekas...
00:01:19  <Roujin> well 80s is before my time I guess :P
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00:09:19  <Spkka> hey all
00:09:31  <Spkka> short question how do i save a dedicated server game?
00:09:53  <Zuu> Try type help and see what you get
00:11:26  <Spkka> ?
00:11:59  <Zuu> Your dedicated server have a console/shell.
00:12:17  <Spkka> i run it wiht -D
00:12:26  <Zuu> if you type help there you get a list of commands if I recall correctly.
00:12:28  <Progman> then use rcon
00:12:35  <Spkka> oh ok nvm
00:12:36  <Spkka> thnx
00:13:04  <Roujin> ok, updated all my 5 pending patches
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00:13:09  <dragonhorseboy> hey
00:13:30  <dragonhorseboy> fugas again :/
00:13:30  <Roujin> patchpack later or tomorrow
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00:15:47  <Spkka> kk thanks for help man \m/
00:15:59  <Spkka> see ya later and have a nice night and all that!
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00:41:57  <fjb> Good night
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01:16:13  <Roujin> night
01:17:26  <SmatZ> right
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01:23:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> fight
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01:29:17  <SmatZ> light
01:29:21  <SmatZ> eight
01:29:28  <SmatZ> tight
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02:38:55  <_Ben_> Hi, would somebody being able to elaborate on what exactly this means? : Feature: Increase house animation frame number from 32 to 128 (r12347)
02:39:16  <_Ben_> great to see the next release out by the way, thanks to all who have worked on that
02:39:28  <_Ben_> being/be
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02:47:35  <SmatZ> _Ben_: it would mean something for GRF coders I think
02:47:51  <SmatZ> though I don't know what are GRF spec requirements there...
02:51:17  <_Ben_> SmatZ: hmm ok cheers.  It sounded interesting, like giving some more options to artists.  I imagin it will become clear in time if it is
02:53:26  <SmatZ> _Ben_: well, I don't know 'anything' about houses GRF coding, sorry :-(
02:53:58  <_Ben_> ok cheers, guess most people are sleeping, I'll try finding out more later
02:53:59  <_Ben_> bye
02:54:06  <SmatZ> bye _Ben_
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05:15:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12437 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: functions to get the current date and to determine the year/month/day from that date.
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07:43:18  <Celestar> morning
07:44:17  <peter1138> hi
07:44:37  <Celestar> whats new?
07:44:53  <Celestar> did anything break? :P
07:45:32  <peter1138> hmm?
07:45:39  <peter1138> i know nothing
07:46:31  <Celestar> at least Endeavour landed safely (=
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08:07:18  <TheJosh> hey all
08:07:18  <Tekky> but the Endeavour had two big flames coming out of it after landing :)
08:07:49  <Tekky> hi Josh
08:07:59  <TheJosh> whos josh?
08:08:32  <Tekky> the one and only Josh, you :)
08:09:07  <TheJosh> ung how did you manage to decipher my nickname to determine my real name?
08:10:26  <TheJosh> so is it worth downloading rc1?
08:11:46  <Celestar> Tekky: two fmales?
08:11:47  <Tekky> no idea, I am using the nighty build with the PBS patch.
08:12:05  <Tekky> yes, did you not see the video?
08:12:32  <Tekky> it looked quite spectactular, like the shuttle was on fire :)
08:12:43  <Tekky> spectactular = spectacular
08:13:10  <Tekky> however, it was no real concern, it just looked spectacular :)]
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08:14:43  <Celestar> I have yet to watch the video
08:15:16  <Celestar> it happened in the middle of the night, as the first landing attempt on Orbit 248 was scrubbed due to weather concerns at the SLF
08:16:13  <Tekky> yes, because of it being night, the flames were very visible and they looked dangerous :)
08:17:00  <Celestar> what was it? St. Elmo's fire?
08:18:08  <TheJosh> I have updated my shares patch to the latest OpenTTD rev
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08:21:58  <Celestar> Tekky: 2 months till the next mission :(
08:22:24  <Rubidium> they have to retile it ;)
08:22:44  <Tekky> I'm afraid I don't know much about the shuttle itself or the mission, I just happened to see the video on the news.
08:22:54  <Gekz> RC1
08:22:55  <Gekz> gasp
08:23:08  <Gekz> how many bugs were fixed last night lol
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08:25:57  <Celestar> Rubidium: the one that's going to fly (Discovery) is already retiled, as it's been the rescue vehicle should something gone wrong with Endeavour
08:26:07  <Celestar> Tekky: about 10 shuttle missions left before they get mothballed.
08:26:24  <Tekky> mothballed? What does that mean?
08:26:34  <Celestar> Tekky: put out of service
08:26:51  <Tekky> hehe, I've never heard that expression before :)
08:26:57  <Celestar> well :)
08:28:05  <Celestar> some ISS mission and one hubble mission
08:31:08  <Tekky> I think we should add Space Shuttles to OpenTTD as a faster version of planes :)
08:31:14  <Celestar> ergh
08:31:20  <Tekky> just kidding :)
08:31:26  <Celestar> they're the most inefficient mode of transportation known to mankind :P
08:32:07  <TheJosh> anyway im off
08:32:07  * Celestar wants the Saturn V booster back
08:32:13  <TheJosh> have a good night everyone
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08:33:03  <Tekky> hehe, yes.... but the passengers pay millions :)
08:33:25  <Celestar> Tekky: around 30 million, yeah
08:36:02  <Tekky> I think the Flight Simulator X-Plane allows you to fly Shuttles and also fly and land planes on Mars :)
08:36:23  <Celestar> he ... awesome landing on TV :)
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08:38:44  <Tekky> you just saw the video?
08:38:58  <Celestar> ay
08:41:21  <peter1138> pom te pom
08:41:27  <Forked> meep meep..
08:42:26  <Noldo> flip
08:49:18  <larsemil> this guy that made the NSB train set, is he here?
08:51:07  <peter1138> Who made it?
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09:33:45  <Celestar> hm
09:33:54  <Celestar> why do Phenom X4's suck so badly :(
09:35:46  <peter1138> Cos AMD's having a bad time.
09:37:53  <Celestar> pretty, yeah
09:38:08  <larsemil> peter1138: som norwegian. like tor something
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09:39:13  <peter1138> Celestar: so i'm thinking a C2D 3GHz for my PC...
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09:41:44  <Celestar> peter1138: Core 2 Quad 9300 is a cool CPU
09:41:45  <Celestar> ;)
09:41:55  <Celestar> get the 45nm parts no matter what ..
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09:48:09  <peter1138> Yes, C2D E8400 I was going for
09:48:27  <peter1138> Quad won't offer any advantage to ottd ;)
09:48:37  <Celestar> :P
09:49:27  <peter1138> the 45nm parts are cheaper anyway
09:49:32  <peter1138> just there seems to be stock shortage
09:49:39  <Celestar> yes
09:49:52  <Celestar> Intel has apparently some problem with the 45nm process, at least the ramping up to volume
09:50:32  <peter1138> E8400 is £140 quid, E6850 is £168
09:50:59  <peter1138> Both 3 GHz
09:55:12  <Gekz> someone
09:55:18  <Gekz> I needs a cheap mini-itx
09:56:22  <larsemil> Gekz: you bricked your eee or what? :D
09:56:34  <Gekz> no, I need a small server
09:57:05  <larsemil> i want a mini-itx sitting in the livingroom, connected to the tv and the stereo. and then a M E G A file-server in the closet.. :D
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09:58:32  <Celestar> larsemil: that's about what I'm putting up
09:58:39  <Celestar> some TB file server
09:59:35  <larsemil> For that you dont need a c2d do you?
09:59:41  <Celestar> nope
09:59:55  <Celestar> it'll be a Duron 900 or something, something I have lying around
10:00:02  <larsemil> same here.
10:00:13  <larsemil> bricked my 1400 the other day..
10:00:17  <peter1138> Hmm
10:00:19  <larsemil> my computer is so OLD
10:00:33  <peter1138> but the "media center" type programs are all cpu hungry
10:00:36  <Gekz> I want my server to have teh rams
10:01:38  <Gekz>
10:01:39  <Gekz> I want one
10:01:59  <larsemil> peter1138: well then you hope tha mini-itx has a kick as cpu. :D :D :D
10:02:48  <peter1138> there are C2D mini-itx boards
10:03:13  <larsemil> ah didnt know
10:07:18  <Celestar> I'd go mobile C2D if I were you
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11:31:17  * peter1138 ponders 'wasting' 1KB
11:31:27  <Noldo> where?
11:31:37  <peter1138> moving some arrays
11:31:38  <Gekz> in his yard
11:31:40  <Gekz> with a weapon
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11:33:04  <Ammler> heya
11:33:20  <Ammler> how big would a nightly be, if you would make a static build?
11:34:12  <peter1138> Big/
11:34:57  <Noldo> try it
11:35:07  <Ammler> how do I make that?
11:35:25  <Ammler> just my suse can't use the nightly bins
11:35:37  <Ammler> "./openttd: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
11:35:45  <peter1138> So, install it?
11:36:01  <Ammler> I am on it...
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11:36:23  <Ammler> but why don't I need that on self compiled versions?
11:38:21  <Ammler> I had a newer version. I thought that is more complicated :-)
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11:40:03  <Celestar> @openttd bugs
11:40:04  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Open Bugs: 19; Not assigned: 13; Closed this week: 8; Opened this week: 8
11:41:21  <Celestar> hm.
11:41:33  <Celestar> peter1138: FS#1877 is a good find
11:41:38  <Progman> whatever you do there will be always new bugs *g*
11:44:17  <Celestar> who is familar with the house/growth code?
11:44:20  <Celestar> Maedhros: you?
11:48:14  * dih still waits with the 'command + v' pasting bug before he reports it in
11:49:24  <Celestar> ?
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11:50:20  <Maedhros> Celestar: not so much, any more
11:50:30  <Maedhros> i think Smatz is working on it though
11:50:32  <Celestar> Maedhros: your opinions on 1877?
11:52:00  <Maedhros> Celestar: that Smatz and skidd13 know more about it than i do ;)
11:52:11  <Celestar> ok ;)
11:53:03  * Celestar waits for Smatz to poke him (=
11:53:50  <Ammler> I checked the client limit patch for wwottdgd, there is a very small glitch still in trunk: (the row has changed to around 620)
11:55:12  <Ammler> not worth for FS... ;-)
11:55:47  <dih> no - you just need to update your diff!!
11:56:04  <Ammler> hmm?
11:56:16  <dih> if you have a chunk offset
11:56:28  <ln> zomfg, i'll be getting my new core2quad today.
11:56:36  * Celestar is kinda bored today
11:56:39  <dih> then your diff is out of date, and not trunk needing a fix!
11:57:01  <dih> Celestar: you can do my work :-P
11:57:11  <Ammler> well, would be easier to commit that to trunk, my question was just, if I need to post it in FS
11:57:14  <Celestar> dih: I have TONS of work here, but I dunno where to start
11:57:42  <dih> Celestar: what's your point?
11:57:43  <dih> ^^
11:58:12  <Celestar> I got kind of an internet overwork protection. The more work I have, the lazier I get :P
11:58:20  <dih> lol
11:58:24  <dih> anyhow - i have to run
11:58:27  <dih> lunch break is over
11:58:28  <dih> enjoy
11:58:42  <Ammler> run?
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12:05:33  <Celestar> hm
12:06:49  <Celestar> we always have WAY more servers than clients :P
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12:07:51  <larsemil> Celestar: well i can take one.
12:08:20  <Celestar> and people really seem to like 0.5.3 :)
12:08:25  <Zuu> So we should have AI-servers that play on all 24/7 dedicated servers so that they get used? :)
12:08:35  <Celestar> Zuu: YAY!
12:10:20  <Zuu> Perhaps they should prefere servers that are empty/few playes so that those servers attract more players. :p
12:10:28  <Celestar> Users browsing this forum: Celestar, Google Adsense [Bot] and 4 guests
12:10:46  <Celestar> stupid Adsense :P
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12:15:51  <Celestar> I off for a quick lunch break
12:16:19  <Celestar> does any of you guys play FFXI?
12:16:24  <aleex> hm, how about the debian/ubuntu file for rc1?
12:17:41  <Maedhros> aleex: it's on sourceforge
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12:18:59  <blathijs> aleex: I forgot to link to the .deb from the download page, but it was already on SF
12:19:01  <aleex> ah ;)
12:19:11  <aleex> yeah got it
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13:38:47  <Celestar> .oO(patching FFVII to get it working properly on XP is more difficult than the actual game)
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13:40:43  <larsemil> well the game is not so difficult at all
13:41:30  <Celestar> that's right. but still great
13:41:49  <Celestar> nevertheless, I'm one of the few who likes FFVIII better apparently (=
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13:43:04  <larsemil> Celestar: i dont even know what ffviii is
13:43:19  <Celestar> Final Fantasy VIII? :P
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13:43:55  <larsemil> aha i meant ttd is not so difficult. :D
13:44:05  <larsemil> Celestar: allthough i like FF VII
13:44:33  <Celestar> I really like it too. Would like it even better if it worked :P
13:45:18  <Belugas> ho shooo....  i though that FFVII was an acronym of an OTTD functionnailty you worked on :P
13:45:20  <Belugas> booo!
13:45:49  <Celestar> Belugas: lol
13:45:50  <Celestar> (=
13:46:11  <Celestar> what are the requested/planned features for 0.7 anyway? do we have a list?
13:46:33  <larsemil> convert to monorail with train inside depot? please. :D
13:46:39  <larsemil> new airplanes after 2020. :D
13:47:08  <Digitalfox> larsemil use newgrf for having new planes after 2020
13:47:12  <Celestar> 1) possible. 2) newgrf
13:47:39  <Celestar> we need some cross-railtype autoreplace :P
13:47:47  * Celestar smirks
13:47:58  <Digitalfox> 0.7 new airports now that rocks :)
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13:48:17  <Celestar> Digitalfox: newgrf airports will be in
13:48:18  <Celestar> ;)
13:48:35  <Belugas> 1) possible but stinks a whole lot.  way too lazy .  Laziness sucks
13:48:36  <Digitalfox> Celestar if the branch is finished :\
13:49:19  <Belugas> therefor, i vote for no 1)
13:49:20  <Celestar> Digitalfox: the branch is mostly finished.
13:49:42  <Celestar> Belugas: for 1) the user would need to set up a 1:1 replacement map
13:50:03  <Celestar> Digitalfox: some cleanups, and some animation problem
13:50:09  <Digitalfox> There are so many cool stuff waiting to come to trunk :)
13:50:22  <Digitalfox> Celestar station animation right?
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13:52:17  <Rubidium> newgrf airports is currently only proof-of-concept, which is a *very* far from 'finished'
13:52:48  <Celestar> Digitalfox: yah
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13:53:28  <Digitalfox> Well peter has a patch ( doesn't he always have one ;) ) so i guess it's up to him when he feels it's ready :)
13:54:34  <Digitalfox> And to be honest i would love see new ports for ships and road vehicles more than airports.. But one step at a time :)
13:55:11  <larsemil> Digitalfox: hahathe stonedock does its job. :D
13:55:45  <Digitalfox> larsemil wait and see how new ship ports rocks ;)
13:55:56  <Digitalfox> So many possibilities
13:56:04  <larsemil> Digitalfox: screenshot? plz
13:56:51  <Digitalfox> I don't have any.. And don't think there are any.. But see the newports branch and what can be done :)
13:57:34  <Digitalfox> If you see the new airports and even the way planes now behave you will see what i mean
13:58:48  <Digitalfox> But like Rubidium said it's a proof-of-concept so let's wait for what happens ;)
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14:00:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12438 /trunk/src/core/math_func.hpp: -Fix-ish: typo spotted by Biblo.
14:01:02  <Maedhros> aah, the irony ;)
14:01:26  <Rubidium> you just wanted to fix that too?
14:01:35  <peter1138> "Biblo"
14:01:40  <Celestar> (=
14:02:03  <Rubidium> the b is just very close to the l ;)
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14:10:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12439 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix [FS#1871]: do not 'disable' the drawing of autorail overlays when the tile is 'error'-marked (red pulsating selection). Patch by Icosikai.
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14:14:30  <Celestar> @openttd bugs
14:14:31  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Open Bugs: 19; Not assigned: 13; Closed this week: 8; Opened this week: 8
14:14:35  <Celestar> :P
14:19:33  <Digitalfox> Any progress/solution found for FS119?
14:19:55  <Rubidium> if there would be it would be fixed I guess
14:21:12  <Celestar> there has been some minor progress I heard, but I dunno
14:21:53  <Rubidium> well, parts are solved, but not all
14:22:15  <Digitalfox> While is not a big thing, it's annoying since I have it in all my games :\
14:22:53  <Digitalfox> At first i thought it was some newgrf i was using, but it turns out is really a bug..
14:24:12  <Rubidium> the clipping problems could be worsened by the newgrfs
14:24:39  <Rubidium> George's long vehicles is one of those (and that can't be fixed by the way)
14:26:33  <Digitalfox> Maybe v5 using articulated parts could help in this issue.. But he says that open and patch don't support what he wants so...
14:26:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r12440 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp road_map.h):
14:26:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1694]: Make the road building and road removing conditions more union
14:26:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature: Allow to build/remove more road-piece combinations directly
14:28:24  <Rubidium> he basically wants us to support bounding boxes that we are 110% certain of to give an enormous amount of glitches like FS#119. And because we then 'support' those larger bounding boxes it becomes out problem that the sprites overflow instead of his problem.
14:28:37  <Rubidium> ergo, it's not going to happen on our side.
14:29:13  <peter1138> Same problem with the 32bpp artists who think that 32bpp should include the ability to have longer vehicles.
14:31:12  <Digitalfox> And if he doesn't use bounding boxes, couldn't he have a v5 with articulated parts with no gliches?
14:31:40  <Digitalfox> *couldn't=could
14:31:46  <Rubidium> he wants the articulated parts to be longer than the current bounding box
14:32:34  <Digitalfox> So it's more of a personal choice than a limitation..
14:33:03  <Rubidium> yup
14:33:34  <glx> peter1138: not artits, mainly athanasios ;)
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14:34:19  <Rubidium> it is something like TTDP doesn't support small enough bounding boxes and OpenTTD won't support larger bounding boxes.
14:34:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12441 /trunk/src/ (gui.h lang/english.txt timetable_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Feature: open the time table when pressing the order button while pressing the CTRL key. Patch by Phil Sophus.
14:35:18  <Digitalfox> Well i think lv4 vehicles size is huge in comparison of others vehicles.. So i would prefer smaller vehicles articulated.. But i guess he won't do it..
14:37:00  <peter1138> glx, well a whole group of people thought that "32bpp" == "totally new game mechanics, including all objects to scale, smooth curves, longer vehicles, etc..."
14:37:25  *** MarkAway is now known as Mark
14:37:39  <Celestar> er .. that's a new game, not new game mechanics :P
14:37:53  <peter1138> Quite.
14:41:35  *** Osai^zZz`off is now known as Osai
14:42:26  <peter1138>
14:42:54  <Celestar> peter1138: :) is that a first step towards destinations? ;)
14:42:55  <hylje> yet more peter-vapurware
14:42:56  <hylje> +o
14:45:25  <Celestar> peter1138: that looks good. +/- are buttons I assume?
14:45:54  <peter1138> actually
14:46:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r12442 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Feature: Allow build leveled roads on slopes for the old ai
14:46:42  <Celestar> they might want a frame?
14:47:19  <peter1138> there was a problem with big lists
14:47:22  <peter1138> but i can't remember where it was
14:48:45  <peter1138> must've been on the forums
14:50:20  <peter1138> it's not to do wtih destinations
14:50:45  <peter1138>
14:51:02  <peter1138> See the "current nightly" shot
14:51:17  <peter1138> My change just makes it not show transfers unless you want it to
14:51:47  <Celestar> but since when are multiple transfers listed?!
14:51:48  <peter1138> Since... I added the feature a while back.
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14:52:07  <Roujin> g'day
14:52:11  <Celestar> any idea when, peter1138 ?
14:52:12  <Celestar> hi Roujin
14:52:21  <peter1138> r11990
14:52:31  <Celestar> @commit 11990
14:52:32  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Commit by peter1138 :: r11990 /trunk/src (3 files in 2 dirs) (2008-01-26 22:15:39 UTC)
14:52:33  <DorpsGek> Celestar: -Codechange: Show all cargo sources (en-route from) in the station view
14:52:34  <DorpsGek> Celestar: cargo waiting list instead of just one. The station view window is now
14:52:35  <DorpsGek> Celestar: resizable to cope with the extra information.
14:52:38  <peter1138> Multiple transfers have been kept track of since cargo packets
14:52:43  <peter1138> Just the gui showed it the old way
14:52:46  <Celestar> peter1138: I see
14:52:48  <peter1138> So I ... fixed it.
14:52:56  <Celestar> .oO(when were cargopackets added?) :P
14:53:36  <peter1138> A while ago ;)
14:53:49  <Celestar> it seems I've been out of the loop for a while :P
14:54:26  <peter1138> 10266
14:54:46  <peter1138> June ;P
14:55:07  <Celestar> @commit 10266
14:55:07  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Commit by rubidium :: r10266 /trunk (31 files in 4 dirs) (2007-06-22 11:58:59 UTC)
14:55:08  <DorpsGek> Celestar: -Codechange: keep track of the origin, time of travel and accumulated feeder share (transfers) of individual pieces of cargo. This means that cargo isn't thrown on a big pile when it's put in a station or unloaded at a station, however the GUI does not reflect these changes yet so you will not actually see it.
14:56:00  <Celestar> so why do we still have a cargo-packets branch?
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14:57:40  <Rubidium> because the cargo-packets branch is a superset of what cargo packets there's in trunk now?
14:58:24  <nicfer> chrisIN or gonozalIN?
14:58:44  <Celestar> Rubidium: the last commit in cargo-packets wasin r5361
14:58:56  <Celestar> so I *think* that branch is out-of-date
14:59:16  <Rubidium> so 0.4 and 0.5 should go to and map
15:00:04  <Celestar> is there are theoretical possibility that 0.4 and 0.5 will see another release?
15:01:27  <Celestar> or is the policy that a 0.n release supercedes all 0.(n-1) releases?
15:02:18  <Rubidium> there is no policy
15:02:22  <Celestar> :P
15:02:58  *** jez [] has joined #openttd
15:04:03  <Celestar> 0.n should remain until we officially cease to "support" 0.n. Whatever that means ...
15:04:03  <jez> Any devs; code reviews of my patch v0.2 at would be greatly appreciated.  :-)  I've tried to stick to the OpenTTD coding conventions, but might obviously have made 1 or 2 mistakes so I'd like a list of what I need to touch up.  This is strictly coding syntax and style; I'm aware that a lot of the code still needs to be split into separate functions.
15:04:26  *** jez [] has quit []
15:04:35  <peter1138> Yet another host.
15:04:42  <Celestar> host?
15:04:54  <peter1138> I will not trust Jez until he stops using an anonymizer to connect to IRC.
15:05:17  <peter1138> So his code can FOAD...
15:05:18  <Celestar> bbl. trouble
15:07:01  *** murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::cafe] has quit [Quit: leaving]
15:07:13  <Belugas> "I've tried to stick to the OpenTTD coding conventions, but might obviously have made 1 or 2 mistakes"  As far as I can see, the numer is quite bigger then that...
15:08:00  <Belugas> dunno where he took "our" convention, but surely not at the place it is sitting right now :P
15:09:26  <Rubidium> jez... I looked at the diff and yes, there is only one mistake... it doesn't follow the coding style at all :)
15:10:01  <Belugas> plus, do we ever want that functionality? Personally, i'd say no
15:11:08  <Celestar> Belugas: Rubidium: _if_ the user sets up a replacement scheme that maps every vehicle of one railtype to a vehicle of the other railtype, that it's possible.
15:11:16  <Celestar> just by $.02
15:11:25  <Celestar> my even
15:11:36  <Dominik> i think i remember that we decided against it back in the days when the convert track tool got implemented
15:11:40  <Rubidium> you dollar cents are completely worthless
15:11:53  <Rubidium> s/you/your/
15:12:05  <Celestar> well, then it'S my EUR0.02 :P
15:12:16  <Celestar> betta?
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15:13:10  <skidd13> Hi all
15:13:18  <Rubidium> even those are fairly worthless because you can generally only use them at the Aldi and Lidl
15:13:19  <Celestar> heyo :)
15:13:26  <Rubidium> *or* I have to go to Germany
15:13:45  <Digitalfox> The road dollar is taking someday 1€ is like 7 or 8 dollars.. Good for importations.. Bad for exportations
15:13:46  <Rubidium> which is... well... at least 15 minutes by bike
15:14:02  <Belugas> i wonder when a user will propose a patch with a big button saying "Press to play" and that button will lay down the network, wil buy the trains, will give the orders and all...  that would be sooo nifty :S
15:14:25  <Celestar> Belugas: we have that. It's called AI
15:14:43  <Digitalfox> Celestar big lol
15:16:08  <Digitalfox> By the way congratulations Portugal are tax just passed from 21% to 20%.. Now i can spend a 1€ for month on my ISP :p
15:16:22  <nicfer> chrisIN or gonozalIN?
15:16:42  <Digitalfox> *just passed to... *One less €
15:16:43  <skidd13> Belugas: Wasn't there a patch out there who helped you with rail placement... I remember something that some kind of AI avoided to have to much incline in a straight...
15:19:24  <Rubidium> nicfer: none of them
15:19:46  <Belugas> dunno, skidd13.  Bad memory and not paying big attention on what happens in forums, lately, to be honest
15:19:51  <nicfer> what useful response....
15:20:07  <Rubidium> well, the question is as useful
15:20:10  <nicfer> I want to know which one is better
15:20:33  <skidd13> Belugas: well... me nither... but It was a longer time ago... I think at least 3 month or so
15:21:39  <skidd13> nicfer: plain trunk... cause you got daily fresh bug fixes and new features :D
15:22:09  <Rubidium> and you do not have to ask for them to compile a binary for you
15:22:15  <skidd13> the INs are generaly a bit off date
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15:26:27  <peter1138> So, the diff...
15:28:17  <Belugas> plus, nicfer, bare in mind the INs are very good candidates to run your games havoc, and you cannot use them with trunk.  so, you're pretty much screwed
15:29:06  <Rubidium> peter1138: I guess that diff needs some cleaning ;)
15:29:24  <peter1138> Hmm, crap :p
15:29:32  <peter1138> Yes, ignore the railtype stuff :)
15:29:45  <Celestar> ?
15:29:49  <Celestar> ah
15:29:53  <Celestar> I was asking myself .. :P
15:30:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12443 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp settings.cpp): -Add: OpenTTDs version to openttd.cfg, just so we do not need to keep to ask people for their version number because it's likely they give you the wrong answer anyway.
15:30:10  <peter1138> Otherwise...?
15:30:40  <Celestar> lol @ commit message
15:31:24  <Celestar> peter1138: why "jt" as a variable name and not something like "current_cargo"?
15:31:53  <hylje> shrt nms r btfl
15:32:17  * skidd13 needs a babelfish :D
15:32:26  <Celestar> work.complete
15:32:27  <peter1138> I can't remember... that's not this diff ;)
15:32:36  <Celestar> ffvii.continue
15:32:46  <peter1138> I think it's 'cos we use it for iterator, and it's a sub-iterator...
15:33:16  <Celestar> rest looks nice
15:37:15  <nicfer> hmmm what new features are in trunk that are not in the new RC?
15:37:27  <Rubidium> OSK
15:38:29  <Celestar> OSK for PC as well? :P
15:38:34  <Rubidium> yup
15:38:47  <Rubidium> just click the editbox
15:39:16  <Celestar> oh (=
15:39:21  <Celestar> useful (=
15:40:16  <nicfer> OSK?
15:40:47  <hylje> osk?!
15:40:56  <skidd13> On Screen Keyboard
15:41:17  <hylje> is this a precursor for an iPhone port?
15:41:29  <skidd13> and since a few minutes a bit nicer way of building and removing road-pieces :D
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15:46:53  <hylje> :o
15:46:55  <Dominik> hylje: in fact it's for the NDS port but I hope the iPhone port will use it as well
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15:47:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12444 /trunk/src/misc_gui.cpp: -Fix: A little typo
15:47:31  <hylje> Dominik: great
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15:48:21  <Dominik> <advertisement> </advertisement>
15:48:52  <yorick> helllo
15:49:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12445 /trunk/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp newgrf_gui.cpp signs_gui.cpp): -Fix: Add missing compile asserts for window data structs
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15:49:08  <yorick> committing rapidly :)
15:49:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> we had worse times than that ;)
15:49:48  <Celestar> yeah
15:49:58  <nicfer> one question, why there are no nightly servers?
15:50:07  * yorick is curious what glx thinks about FS#1866, but is not going to ask becouse he feels he has bugged glx too much lately
15:50:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> because people are too lazy to update
15:50:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> especially if "update" means going back 5 nightlies because the server was not updated yet
15:51:17  <yorick> and server admins are too lazy aswell
15:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12446 /trunk/src/station_gui.cpp: -Feature: Add +/- toggle buttons to station cargo waiting list to show/hide the detailed transferred cargo information.
15:51:26  <yorick> ah...stop committing that much :)
15:51:45  <yorick> is it always like this after branching?
15:51:55  <Celestar> sometimes, yeah 80
15:52:00  <nicfer> how do I access the OSK?
15:52:04  <skidd13> yorick: expect not the end... :D
15:52:27  <yorick> click a input bar, nicfer
15:52:36  <yorick> and it's not in RC1 ;)
15:53:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: yeah, directly after the branch it gets mostly out of date immediately
15:54:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> like after 0.5 branch there was the bridges commit
15:54:17  <Celestar> peter1138: so about the station animation thingy ...
15:54:21  <peter1138> Yeah?
15:54:25  <peter1138> My patch is at home...
15:54:32  <yorick> and you aren't?
15:54:35  <peter1138> No :p
15:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> ssh?
15:54:48  <peter1138> I don't leave my PC on.
15:54:50  <nicfer> it is cool, but would be better one that works in all the programs
15:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> home is where the shell is ;)
15:54:54  <Celestar> peter1138: what does it actually do or where is the problem that needs to be fixed? :)
15:55:13  <glx> IIRC it worked :)
15:55:14  <yorick> not like station animation is supported in openttd ;)
15:55:16  <peter1138> Celestar, er, it's an unimplemented NewGRF feature.
15:55:21  <peter1138> The patch implements it.
15:55:23  <Celestar> peter1138: oh I see ;)
15:55:47  <Celestar> peter1138: that sounds good. I'll dive into newgrf_ports and see what needs cleaning/updating/testing
15:55:59  <nicfer> bug in the OSK: it doesn't work for the console
15:56:06  <yorick> true
15:56:06  *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
15:56:07  <enkoopa> My station has iron waiting for some reason even though no trains pickup iron frmo that station.. how long will it take to go away?
15:56:28  <Rubidium> nicfer: you can't reach the console anyway without a keyboard
15:56:32  <yorick> portable devices don't really use the console, do they?
15:56:34  <Rubidium> (which is by design)
15:56:46  <yorick> Rubidium, try pressing that questionmark button
15:56:56  <yorick> and select "Toggle console"
15:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> enkoopa: long... but it won't have any disadvantages that it is waiting there
15:57:11  <Rubidium> lol ;)
15:57:19  <Dominik> hmm, i didn't consider the console as it's not being used on the nds
15:57:35  <enkoopa> Thanks.
15:57:41  <enkoopa> I'm cleaning out a virus of a mistake... it's brutal.
15:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> enkoopa: there is a patch setting "do not accept cargo before a train picked some up"
15:59:01  <yorick> is it called like that?
15:59:08  <enkoopa> Eddi|zuHause2: Hmm. Let me run this by you, maybe it's a known issue... it's a little confusing
15:59:42  <enkoopa> Alright, I have a 10 track station that accepts Iron Ore from all over the place for the steel factory.
16:00:08  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12447 /trunk/src/table/ (road_land.h station_land.h): -Add: company colours to hangars and road depots; train depots already have them.
16:00:24  <enkoopa> I expanded it to 12 tracks. After a while I noticed the trains were not fully unloading. I cursed a lot. Then I realized, those extra 2 tracks, were now making it overlap witha  nearby Iron ore mine. So my trains were picking up Iron Ore mine from that station.
16:00:48  <enkoopa> So they would still do their pickups but at very limited capacity since they had all this "virus" ore.
16:01:02  <enkoopa> I fixed the statino, and now I have to check each train by hand to see if it has any virus ore left over.
16:01:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> ah, then put "unload" orders on the trains
16:01:32  <yorick> the "yeah, directly after the branch it gets mostly out of date immediately" is true! I expected an up-to-date stable version finally, but even before release it's out of date ;(
16:01:43  <enkoopa> I think the problem is, the other trains will just pickup the virus ore that another train just dropped off :(
16:02:02  <peter1138> hence unload orders
16:02:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> "unload" means "don't pick anything up under any circumstances"
16:02:22  <enkoopa> But it doesn't solve the virus ore.. it just lives on... what I've been doing is finding a train with it, sending to depot, cloning, and selling.
16:02:42  <enkoopa> Ahhh so ALL trains would need unload...
16:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> cargo slowly disappears if it does not get picked up
16:03:00  <yorick> enkoopa, and you could consider shared orders
16:03:07  <enkoopa> Yeah they all have shared orders.
16:03:13  <enkoopa> Problem is there's like.. 6-7 routes going to that station :)
16:04:07  <enkoopa> Although that might be what's needed to fix it up.. although I think goign through by hand has fixed it.
16:04:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> easy, click on each loading station, click the train icon in that window, you get a list of trains that service that station, select one, put the unload order
16:05:23  <enkoopa> Nice. My mines are slowly getting back up there.
16:05:26  <yorick> noobs that keep dev's from devving! :p get out! hehe
16:07:46  *** skidd13 [] has left #openttd [Ping timeout: resistance is futile.]
16:09:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12448 /trunk/os/ (mandrake/ rpm/ rpm/openttd.spec suse/): -Change: add a spec file for RPMs. The spec file replaces the SuSE and Mandrake versions as these distributions are also supported by the new spec file. New spec file by Denis Burlaka.
16:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> what a big luck that i am not a dev ;)
16:12:04  <nicfer> is better playing in multiplayer than in singleplayer?
16:13:07  <Belugas> personnal choice
16:14:28  <nicfer> so... both modes are fun right?
16:14:58  <Belugas> depending of your personality indeed
16:15:19  <Belugas> i, perosnally, do not like playing against others
16:15:27  <Belugas> i like dong stuff alone
16:15:34  <Belugas> not a competition guy
16:15:54  <Belugas> just go as you feel, in other words
16:15:56  <Belugas> try both
16:16:01  <Belugas> and judge for yourself
16:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> i like slow paced games, where i can just sit there and watch the trains moving or not
16:16:19  * Rubidium agrees with Eddi|zuHause2
16:16:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> not really suitible for network
16:16:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> plus, my connection sucks ;)
16:16:53  <Belugas> :)
16:16:55  * Belugas nods
16:17:17  <Belugas> well... i have no opinion on your connection, should I say :P
16:17:27  <peter1138> I once played co-op with Sacro
16:17:31  <peter1138> That was quite good.
16:17:38  <Belugas> but i agree with yourUPDATE CASHUNITS SET CARDPROCESSOR=
16:17:39  <Belugas> 'SWIPER_TYPE=2
16:17:39  <Belugas> AUTHO_ON_REFUNDS=Y
16:17:39  <Belugas> USER=User1
16:17:39  <Belugas> PATHPROCESSOR=
16:17:39  <Belugas> TIMEOUT=45
16:17:41  <Belugas> TIMEOUT_PIN=45
16:17:41  <Belugas> CREDITPROCESSOR=HPTS
16:17:43  <Belugas> DEBITPROCESSOR=HPTS
16:17:43  <Belugas> TCPIP=
16:17:45  <Belugas> IP_PORT=31419
16:17:45  <Belugas> PINPAD=NONE'
16:17:45  <peter1138> (Not openttdcoop style, of course)
16:17:47  <Belugas> WHERE CASHID='0302';
16:17:47  <Belugas> shit...
16:17:49  <Belugas> sorry
16:17:57  <peter1138> Damn, private IP address ;)
16:18:14  *** ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
16:18:18  <Rubidium> lets DDOS that IP :)
16:18:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, that totally overruns my connection already ;)
16:19:06  <yorick> oh noes, flood!
16:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm sure that is confidential company information and gets him fired anyway ;)
16:19:34  <Belugas> well...
16:19:40  <Belugas> nothing really armfull there..
16:20:24  * Rubidium sees a French twist in that :)
16:20:24  <Belugas> and if ever they fire me, they'l have at least a 6 months lag on installations, and 1 year at least n developpement :P
16:20:40  <Belugas> ? at Rubidium ?
16:21:26  <peter1138> harmful
16:21:28  <Rubidium> (h)armfull (not pronouncing the h as in l'hotel)
16:21:38  <Rubidium> or even not writing it down
16:22:11  <Belugas> ho...
16:22:13  <Belugas> right
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16:25:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> afaik some english dialects like to leave out "h" also
16:26:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> or "t"
16:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> especially in the middle of words
16:27:21  <peter1138> the wa'er in maajorka don' taste like wot i' ough'a
16:27:26  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Quit: You just lost the game]
16:27:28  <peter1138> tas'e, maybe
16:28:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Eimersaufen!" ;)
16:29:51  <yorick> provide a translation?
16:30:23  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
16:30:31  <Ammler> wow, openSUSE has already RC1 in the repo...
16:30:57  <Ammler> he is really fast :-)
16:31:14  <Sacro> Ammler: i'll flag the arch package
16:31:43  <Ammler> does mean?
16:31:59  <Celestar> oh man
16:32:05  <Ammler> is that a automatic process?
16:32:07  <Celestar> Syncing Newgrf_ports is a pita
16:32:07  <Sacro> ArchLinux, it has openttd, openttd-beta and openttd-svn
16:32:09  <Celestar> a REAL pita
16:32:12  <Sacro> hey Celestar
16:32:16  <Celestar> hey Sacro
16:32:24  <Celestar> cuz I got conflicts in grf files :S
16:33:07  <glx> Celestar: yes RichK doesn't understand our new openttd[dw].grf stuff
16:33:18  <Celestar> ?
16:33:22  <Celestar> what'S the deal
16:33:45  <glx> he doesn't use extra/ottd_grf to update the grf
16:34:07  <glx> it decodes and update the grfs in trunk
16:34:08  <yorick> even I do :)
16:34:31  <Celestar> ?
16:34:49  <Celestar> I'm quite lost
16:34:53  <peter1138> The source to the grfs is in a separate directory
16:35:12  <peter1138> In there it's split up logically.
16:35:26  <glx> and easier to maintain
16:36:30  <Celestar> ok what do you recommend?
16:36:50  <peter1138> restart ;)
16:37:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> the first prototype you throw away anyway ;)
16:39:27  <Celestar> so why do we have the data files anyway and don't compile them on demand from?
16:39:29  <Celestar> extra
16:39:39  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, i did with newstations ;)
16:39:46  <peter1138> Celestar, that i don't know :)
16:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> include grfcodec like strgen?
16:40:11  <peter1138> i think we could easily move it to trunk
16:40:20  <peter1138> hmm, true, it has external dependencies.
16:40:23  <peter1138> :o
16:41:08  <Celestar> helb: yeah, something like that
16:41:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, grfcodec could be included similar to squirrel
16:41:55  *** Osai`off is now known as Osai
16:42:11  <DaleStan> External dependencies being boost? I doubt you're using the the date escapes in Open's GRF files. Or Perl?
16:42:39  <peter1138> what?
16:42:42  <yorick> grfcodec needs perl to compile
16:42:46  <peter1138> no, i meant the external dependency being grfcodec
16:43:44  <Celestar> ok forget that I said anything :P
16:43:49  <peter1138> :D
16:44:11  * Celestar could use some assistance bringing newgrf_ports up to scratch
16:44:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> what exactly do you need perl for?
16:44:27  <yorick> pallets
16:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> ?
16:44:55  <yorick> but with other counts of l
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16:45:04  <DaleStan> And also to generate .rev, but that could probably be done with shell scripting.
16:45:27  <yorick> openttd does it with a VBS and a shell script
16:45:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> last time i checked, ottd got the rev with some awk magic
16:46:10  <peter1138> not for msvc
16:46:18  <glx> vbs magic
16:47:01  <Celestar> going home
16:47:19  <Celestar> I'll try to deal with the grf problem tomorrow. if anyone would like to help... go ahead (=
16:49:47  <glx> anyway it seems newgrf_ports uses "standard" openttd grfs
16:49:47  <glx> so these are not a problem
16:49:47  * peter1138 ponders allowed_cargo/disallowed_cargo
16:49:47  <peter1138> maybe reallocating the array'll do
16:51:08  * Belugas ponders commiting action 7/9/D var 22/A2 difficulty level for george's request
16:51:33  * yorick ponders Belugas to do it, whatever that means
16:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> action 7/9 are conditional jumps
16:52:28  * Belugas sends yorick to read on ttdpatch's wiki about newgrf
16:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> action D are parameter accesses, i believe
16:52:44  <Belugas>
16:52:50  <yorick> why is newgrf in hex anyway?
16:53:08  <Belugas> right. it shold have been in alphabetic...
16:53:10  <DaleStan> Because you haven't designed a better way to do it.
16:53:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> because it is easy to "compile"
16:53:18  <Dominik> newgrf is such a big ugly hack. i wish openttd would just have used an own format
16:53:32  <Belugas> ho ho...
16:53:37  * Belugas runs away
16:53:40  <yorick> it is big...and ugly...but not a hack!
16:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> actually, i have, but i don't have the time to really develop it
16:53:58  <Dominik> it has "HACK" written all over it
16:54:12  <yorick> you can't write the H and K...
16:54:22  <yorick> it only reaches from 0 to F!
16:54:38  <DaleStan> In big letters, followed promptly by "Designed by an x86 assembly programmer".
16:54:51  <DaleStan> It also has "WORKS" in equally big letters.
16:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: actually strings are part of the NFO "standard"
16:56:36  <Dominik> no one with any sane mind would come up with such a screwed extension for a multi-platform program in a high-level programming language like OpenTTD
16:56:41  <DaleStan> Belugas: Difficulty level? Just easy/medium/hard/custom?
16:56:50  <Belugas> yes
16:56:53  <yorick> I would have liked an own standard for openttd
16:56:59  <yorick> GRL works...
16:57:17  <Belugas> DaleStan: it does not seems that George requires anything more, right now
16:57:34  <Belugas> so, 0..3
16:57:58  <Dominik> it serves its purpose for TTDpatch and it's internals, but not for OpenTTD
16:58:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: but who in his right mind uses default difficulty levels?
16:58:22  <Belugas> there are peoples who do
16:58:26  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, quite :)
16:58:33  <glx> Celestar: ok after examining openttdw.grf with grf2html I know what to do :)
16:58:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> if only to disable the AI
16:58:42  <Belugas> mostly cuase they do not care about exploring the settings
16:58:50  <Belugas> laziness kills a lot
16:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> also, changing the map options in the new game window
16:59:36  <Belugas> DaleStan, are yu happy with that?  or do you think about something else?
16:59:40  <DaleStan> Dominik: I won't speculate on Patchman's saninty, but NFO was not designed for a multi-platform program in a high-level programming language. It was designed for a single-platform self-modifying program in assembly-language.
17:00:36  *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
17:00:57  <Belugas> DaleStan : quite an easy one anyway :
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17:01:18  <Dominik> DaleStan: yes, that's what i mean. and i wasn't referring to Patchman either. just pointing out that no one would have done it the way it is if it'd been written purely for OpenTTD
17:01:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, they'd have chosen XML!!!! :p
17:02:04  <Belugas> yeah right....
17:02:09  <Belugas> of course :P
17:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> XML is such a pain...
17:04:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> <YouHaveSoLongTagNamesThatYouNeverSpotTheActualValueInbetween><AndNestedToInfinity>0</AndNestedToInfinity></YouHaveSoLongTagNamesThatYouNeverSpotTheActualValueInbetween>
17:05:11  <glx> and you need to parse it too
17:05:34  <glx> and action2 in XML are not easy
17:05:55  <peter1138> ini files!
17:06:01  *** Phoenix_the_II [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:06:02  <DaleStan> Belugas: Looks good.
17:06:09  *** Slowpoke_ [] has joined #openttd
17:06:12  <Belugas> so there it goes
17:06:50  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
17:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> a total rewrite of the difficulty system is needed
17:06:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: belugas * r12449 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Feature[newGRF]: Add support for var A2/22 for action 7/9/D: Diificulty level
17:07:13  <DaleStan> Just had to find it in TTD, first.
17:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> typoday?
17:07:28  <Belugas> yeah :D
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17:09:57  <Belugas> DaleStan, i've started editing the wiki.  Are you going to commit it on your side? I'l add both revisions then
17:10:13  <DaleStan> Belugas: 22? TTDPatch doesn't have a 21.
17:10:36  <Belugas> should be Openttd version
17:11:02  <Belugas> or you could read it as A1 and A2
17:11:12  <Belugas> on wiki, it is A1 and A2 anyway
17:11:24  <Belugas> internall to open, it is 21 and 22
17:12:09  <yorick> <-- replacement to XML, lightweight, most important: array support!
17:12:53  *** Slowpoke [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:12:54  <DaleStan> Ah. OK. Both going in as soon as I figure out what happens if I put a null pointer in for 21/A1. If that breaks, it'll probably be an alias for 1A in Patch.
17:13:31  <yorick> and why do grf's need to be "compiled" anyway?
17:13:45  <yorick> it might be a good 32bpp-style-info
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17:13:54  <DaleStan> Do you want to compress the sprite data by hand?
17:14:28  <yorick> does 32bpp compress sprite data?
17:15:03  <yorick> png is also compressed
17:16:51  <Belugas> yorick, let DaleStan works, he has more important stuff to do ;)
17:17:14  <yorick> I responds, I don't require him to
17:17:16  <yorick> he*
17:17:37  <DaleStan> I neither know nor care how 32bpp works. GRF doesn't do 32bpp, and therefore 32bpp is completely irrelevant.
17:17:50  <yorick> it isn't for openttd grf format
17:18:57  <peter1138> ...
17:19:24  <DaleStan> GRF doesn't do 32 bpp. 32bpp is extra files that are not part of the GRF.
17:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> which i'm not sure is a good design decision
17:20:08  <yorick> "yet"
17:21:08  <DaleStan> Well, come back and talk about yet after yet actually happens. Until then 32bpp is still irrelevant.
17:23:02  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: I think it's a good design decision because it means that no-one is forced to use 32bpp to join some random server
17:23:56  <yorick> FS#1866, any thoughts? *is addicted to coding and wants to continiue*
17:24:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, yes, but the same can be said about the 8bpp pictures
17:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, the pictures being in the grf does not mean they have to be used
17:25:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> it just looks a tiny bit inconsistent to me...
17:25:39  <yorick> Eddi, there is such a thing as "[newgrf-static]"
17:25:40  <Rubidium> it's only that the GRFs' size explodes
17:25:52  <Rubidium> if you add 32bpp sprites
17:26:34  <DaleStan> <Eddi|zuHause2> which i'm not sure is a good design decision <-- I'm quite sure it's a bad decision. Sprite number change every time you so so much as look at NFO sideways.
17:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but again, you can also say that you should split out the 8bpp pictures from the grf
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17:27:08  <peter1138> That is a minor niggle, but the benefit of being able to do simple replacement outweighs it, imho
17:27:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: totally unrelated
17:27:37  <yorick> no, because you can join a MP game regardless of your graphics with the static
17:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> yorick: totally unrelated
17:27:54  <yorick> no, because you can join a MP game regardless of your graphics with the static
17:28:00  <DaleStan> yorick: totally unrelated
17:28:13  * yorick repeats the above
17:28:26  <yorick> yorick: totally unrelated
17:28:51  <DaleStan> And no, you can't. Put LV3 in static, and try to join a MP server that uses LV4 instead.
17:29:32  <yorick> and try to put newwater in static, and try to join a MP server that uses oldwater instead
17:29:50  <DaleStan> Or, if you prefer, put an old version of LV4 in static, and try to join a server that uses a newer version.
17:30:01  <yorick> totally unrelated
17:30:06  <glx> you can't put LV4 in static
17:30:10  <peter1138> LV3 or LV4 cannot be loaded from static
17:30:25  <peter1138> So there'll be no problem.
17:31:14  <DaleStan> Exactly. No problem, but no effect either. yorick seems to be under the delusion that any GRF it wanted would function in static.
17:31:30  <yorick> no he isn't!
17:31:39  <peter1138> Who cares what yorick thinks :p
17:31:48  <yorick> you apperently do
17:33:01  <DaleStan> Hm... peter1138 has a point.
17:33:01  <DaleStan> /help ignore
17:33:26  <Belugas> yorick: not when you're talking without knowing, or arguing for the fun of arguing
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17:33:41  <Belugas> so, /me searches same feature
17:34:08  <nicfer>  /help me
17:34:09  <nicfer> lol
17:34:48  <DaleStan> /help me, nicfer.
17:34:53  *** dR3x4cK [] has joined #openttd
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17:35:01  <DaleStan> No need for a leading space.
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17:38:48  * peter1138 ponders ways to shrink the enginepool patch further
17:39:31  <peter1138> besides committing it, heh
17:40:03  <DaleStan> Belugas: There it went: r1857.
17:40:04  <Digitalfox> commit commit and commit :p
17:40:33  <peter1138> anyway
17:40:34  <Belugas> thanks
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17:40:42  * peter1138 still hasn't got around to adding png support to grfcodec
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17:44:27  <Belugas> done
17:44:33  <Belugas> now, let's work@work
17:45:09  <peter1138> boo
17:47:52  *** raimar2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:51:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12450 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Use a pointer instead of several array dereferences.
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18:02:51  <enkoopa> so newgrf's aren't just graphics right? theres gameplay c hanges too?
18:03:18  <Digitalfox> yes
18:03:34  <DaleStan> There are even newgrf files with no graphics at all.
18:03:42  <enkoopa> Damn.. and you should start a new game with new grf's right? You shouldn't just add them in an existing game?
18:04:22  <Belugas> exact
18:04:35  <Belugas> they do change the internals quite a lot sometimes
18:05:01  <Belugas> same goes with scenarios, by the way
18:05:06  <enkoopa> damn
18:05:31  *** dih is now known as anhedral
18:05:55  <enkoopa> there's a zillion to pick
18:06:14  <enkoopa> I was mainly interested in new economies.. this ECS Vectors thing sounds popular.
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18:10:41  <AQJ> Test 123
18:10:50  <AQJ> Seems to work=) hey all
18:12:43  <AQJ> i have a Q if some patch guru is able to help
18:13:07  <hylje> just ask, don't ask to ask
18:13:09  <AQJ> how hard is it to "merge" 2 patches?
18:13:40  <Rubidium> ranges from easy to impossible without knowing 90+% of OpenTTD's internals
18:14:17  <AQJ> im currently using Gonzales pack, but would love to integrate the autoconvert one into it... upgradeing the entire network to Mrail and Mag is killing me
18:15:28  <pm|work> AQJ: send all trains to depot. Then use the convert tool. Sell old trains. Buy new
18:15:38  <Belugas> there is no automatic tool to insert a patch in another one
18:15:46  <Belugas> apart using proper tools,
18:15:53  <glx> and brain
18:15:54  <Belugas> i.e.: patch or toroise
18:15:59  <Belugas> true :D
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18:19:37  <AQJ> i know PMwork, thats whats killing me... i have 300ish trains and sending em all to depot and then rebuying them is not my idea of fun=/ so was kinda hoping i could merge gonzales's pack with Jez's autoconvert, i dont mind doing some manual labor to get it working, but is there some guide to what and where to "copy/paste" code bits in order to merge? was unable to find any guide
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18:20:50  <Rubidium> AQJ: are you familiar with programming?
18:20:59  <enkoopa> Is ECS Vectors relatively stable?
18:21:58  <Belugas> enkoopa, i would say so
18:22:23  <enkoopa> Belugas: The beta4 being a better idea then alpha1 I guess?
18:22:26  <AQJ> a litle, but its rusty
18:22:35  <glx> enkoopa: don't use alpha ones
18:23:07  <enkoopa> I just want a little bit more industries.. I could just pick beta4 "Basic vector" and add it in for a little more gameplay?
18:23:41  <Rubidium> AQJ: you've got both patches?
18:24:03  <Rubidium> and OTTD's source code and a tool to apply patches?
18:24:19  <AQJ> yes i got em both and build ottd + a source code
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18:25:16  <enkoopa> Belugas: Looks like I need to add all 6 vectors since they are very inter-dependant?
18:25:30  <Rubidium> in case op bottd your only hope is that pasting one patch behind the other (open both and copy everything from one file to the end of the other file) and feed that patch through bottd
18:25:40  <pm|work> enkoopa: no
18:25:51  <pm|work> You can play just with some. But you need the basic one
18:26:02  <Belugas> enkoopa:
18:26:10  <enkoopa> pm|work: I'm trying to follow the graph...
18:26:11  <Belugas> and pretty more from there ;)
18:26:18  <AQJ> will try that
18:26:20  <Rubidium> if that fails you're royally screwed and you need to get your hand on proper tools to apply patches and handle the rejects yourself (which is way out of the scope of being 'easy')
18:26:25  <enkoopa> So let's say I make glass.. I'd need the Town vector too to accept it right?
18:27:06  <Rubidium> chances are pretty big that it fails though
18:27:16  <pm|work> enkoopa: probably. From my experience a map gets really crowded, if you add all industries
18:27:30  <AQJ> well thank for the the tips, will try, and if all else fails, i guess i will have to "smartify" myself till i can do it.. i simply refuse to replace all my trains by hand=P
18:28:16  <pm|work> or the vehicle sector
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18:28:35  <enkoopa> pm|work: Hmm.
18:28:38  <Patrick`> cool
18:28:45  <enkoopa> pm|work: I guses I could do basic, town and Chemical.. that would give me a bit more to work with but not too much?
18:28:46  <Patrick`> drawing in "new" industries from different climates
18:28:55  <Patrick`> rather than making gash looking new sprites for the new industries
18:29:27  <pm|work> enkoopa: sure. Why not. I got quite a nice one with basic, town and agriculture
18:30:25  <enkoopa> Hmm I'll go for that :)
18:31:38  <enkoopa> Does town or basic go first?
18:32:07  <glx> order them by grfid
18:32:17  <Ammler> town
18:32:37  <enkoopa> kew thx
18:33:45  <pm|work> enkoopa: always basic first
18:34:07  <pm|work> :D three people. Three answers. :D
18:34:16  <Ammler> me and glx is right
18:34:23  <pm|work> ^^ I guess so.
18:34:25  <enkoopa> :)
18:34:33  <enkoopa> Snap, the industries run out of stuff? :|
18:34:46  <pm|work> yes. That's a feature :)
18:34:54  <pm|work> And they don't take unlimited input either
18:35:12  <Ammler> I guess, there is a grf parameter to switch that off
18:35:40  <pm|work> Ammler: I read differently. But that would be a great feature I'd very much welcome
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18:36:37  <Wolf01> hello
18:37:45  <Ammler> yeah, wiki says nothing about
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18:46:12  <peter1138> hmm
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19:02:36  *** anhedral is now known as dih
19:02:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12451 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Codechange: use of FOR_ALL_ENGINES/ENGINEIDS_OF_TYPE instead of for-loops
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19:25:56  * Belugas is getting really addicted to this Queensryche album :)
19:26:13  <bob27> lol
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19:37:06  <Wolf01> what does mean "-Feature: Allow to build/remove more road-piece combinations directly"?
19:37:40  <yorick> and where is it?
19:37:48  <peter1138> there were some combinations that could be built only by building then removing pieces
19:38:09  <Wolf01> really? O_O
19:38:17  <bob27> ok that makes sense I was a bit confused too, thanks
19:38:25  <peter1138> on slopes
19:38:35  <Wolf01> ah, oh, yes, those
19:38:43  <henkie> where can i find the gattling gun? i searched the whole map!
19:40:47  <Belugas> gun????
19:40:55  <Belugas> gattling???
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19:42:46  <bob27> ?
19:44:32  <Belugas> henkie must have been playing something else than OTTD
19:44:37  <Belugas> SHAME ON YOU!!!
19:45:31  <Wolf01> mmmh... that road >_>... I don't want to cheat.... but I need to remove it without buy out the AI... only that road... sometime ago somebody suggested the possibility to chat with the AI, maybe to suggest what to do, like "Hey AI, did you notice that your unused road is in the middle of a nice junction? Why don't you remove that piece?"
19:45:45  <yorick> like you play, belugas ;)
19:47:05  <Belugas> me?
19:47:09  <Belugas> of course i do...
19:47:10  <Belugas> lies!
19:48:55  <dih> i plays with is kid :-P
19:49:06  <Patrick`> buy the AI
19:49:09  <Patrick`> or tunnel under it
19:49:25  <Patrick`> or cunningly lower the entire map beforehand and then flood it out
19:49:45  <yorick> oh hello dih
19:52:59  <Belugas> yeah.. i do play with my kid. legos, mostly ^_^
19:53:00  <dih> :-)
19:55:42  <Patrick`> lego = openttd
19:55:50  <Patrick`> but more awesome (sorry guys)
19:55:54  <Patrick`> I have a lego trainset
19:57:12  <Belugas> we both do build  train sets :D
19:58:30  <Axamentia> Lego rules
19:58:41  <Axamentia> Mechano is more fun though!
19:59:36  <Belugas> too old for my boy
20:01:12  <dih> mechano is too old?
20:01:23  <dih> or your boy too young for mechano
20:01:54  <hylje> too traditional
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20:02:25  <bob27> no mechano is too old for Belugas ;)  just kidding!
20:02:47  <hylje> i have some lego train tracks (and trains) i could be digging up
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20:04:26  <dih> my family as a nice maerklin set
20:04:30  <ln>
20:06:08  <ln> translation for Belugas: Kein = No, fuer = for, Muenchen = Munich
20:06:28  <ln> meldung = message or something
20:07:15  <dih> in this case: report
20:08:41  <Belugas> much appreciated
20:08:43  <Belugas> thanks
20:10:01  <dih>
20:10:48  <dih> what we have would not fit on a table though :-P
20:16:09  <peter1138> Yay, my Vista filesystem is fucked
20:16:19  <dih> get reactos
20:16:21  <dih> :-P
20:17:08  <peter1138> Er, yeah...
20:18:11  <dih> i was seriously considering installing reactos on my laptop
20:18:14  <dih> my second one :-P
20:24:09  <bob27> @dih does this thing install, oh wait , nope...
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20:25:41  <dih> ???
20:26:14  <bob27> i'm commenting on all the stuff that doesn;t work on vista and reactos
20:27:02  <bob27> (reactos seems to be comming along better though)
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20:28:51  <dih> it's not bad
20:29:41  <dih> for it being an open source operating system capable of running windows binaries
20:30:12  <bob27> oh deffinatly I agree!
20:30:17  <dih> games run ^^
20:30:29  <dih> openttd e.g. ^^
20:30:46  <bob27> better then most other things too!
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21:36:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r12452 /trunk/src/ (11 files): -Feature: [NewGRF] Add random action 2 type 84. For vehicles only.
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21:44:56  <jez9999> damnit
21:45:14  <jez9999> a while back, i saw an image of a really good example of how to have a station 'off the side' of a main track
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21:45:17  <jez9999> can't seem to find it now
21:45:18  <jez9999> :-\
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21:56:23  <DaleStan> glx: Possible bug in 12452. If the train wagons are eeXXXyyyXXXyyy, (e is engine, X and y are wagons) will "count back from first of type" needs to start at the fourth X or y for wagons in the second sets. Does this happen?
21:56:37  <DaleStan> *-will
21:57:42  <glx> hmm no
22:02:01  <peter1138> Damn
22:02:11  <peter1138> can we make that newgrf scan run in a background thread?
22:02:29  <peter1138> or do i just have too many grfs...
22:03:20  <glx> I know the feeling, first start after a long time is very slow
22:03:33  <peter1138> especially with a debug build
22:03:53  <glx> yes --enable-debug=3 for me
22:03:59  <peter1138> yeah
22:04:20  <peter1138> also a bummer when you left it in fullscreen last time
22:04:30  <peter1138> i had a black screen for 30 seconds and could not do anything
22:04:41  <glx> I don't use fullscreen
22:06:49  <Dominik> what we do need is a progress bar when the game is loading. especially for slow devices like the NDS and some phones
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22:09:55  <peter1138> especially for slow devices like my pc :p
22:10:05  <larsemil> slow at mine as well. eee.
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22:11:20  <peter1138> hmm, well, i guess Dominik has no newgrfs installed, so it's just slow doing other stuff... but what though?
22:13:17  <Dominik> initializing sprites, generating the map, etc
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22:13:47  <Dominik> what do you expect from a 66MHz cpu? :D
22:15:07  <Dominik> i do have one newgrf installed btw. the small toolbar replacement icons
22:15:51  <peter1138> oh... 66MHz...
22:15:55  <peter1138> *ouch*
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22:22:49  <Prof_Frink> That's slower'n mine!
22:23:17  <larsemil> its lagging on my 600mhz when getting alot of things in the towns
22:25:25  <peter1138> "things" ?
22:25:55  <larsemil> busses airplanes trains helicopters
22:25:59  <Dominik> i'm not talking about a PC btw, but about the Nintendo DS with its 66 MHz CPU and 4 MB RAM
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22:26:48  <peter1138> yeah, i know
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22:43:15  <Wolf01> it is possible to allow building at least buffers stops perpendicular to slopes?
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22:44:35  <peter1138> no
23:01:35  <Wolf01> 'night
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