Log for #openttd on 7th April 2008:
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01:03:08  <THM-SFG> does someone know how i could plant specific industries randomly? e.g. i want to place oil & cole indutries only at places i choose, but farms and wood industries should be placed all over the map at random. any ideas?
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01:08:03  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: why? not every country is like germany
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01:37:43  <Fraser> Hello
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01:38:09  <SmatZ> hello
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02:38:40  <AllAboard> Hello I am having a problem with the OS X version of OpenTTD. I have searched through the forum's and wiki but cannot seem to find anything. My problem is simple: I have no vehicles listed, I cannot build any vehicles or depots. I have all the correct files, do I need to configure it somewhere? Many thanks!
02:42:12  <glx> check the date
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02:43:23  <Tefad> yeah, try starting in 1935 or so
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02:44:34  <De_Ghosty> what u mean
02:44:43  <De_Ghosty> i though trains were invented in 1600
02:44:56  <De_Ghosty> and cars invented in the 1200
02:45:52  <Tefad> De_Ghosty: not in game.
02:47:04  <ben_goodger> ..?
02:49:20  <AllAboard> Ok, will do.
02:52:13  <AllAboard> Cool, I have trucks in 1938. The train construction is still grey/blocked... do I have to wait for it to develop?
02:59:17  <Tefad> AllAboard: something like that
02:59:27  <Tefad> depends on vehicle set too
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03:00:58  <glx> check on the wiki, all appearance dates are there
03:01:19  <glx> and that depends on climate too
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04:16:48  <AllAboard> Unfortunately the trains are still unavailable to use. Do I have to configure something? I am going to try a clean install
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05:17:31  <Patrick`> AllAboard: the trains come in in the 40's or 50's
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06:42:22  <ln> Eddi|zuHause2: sarcasm
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06:45:37  <Celestar> morning
06:48:48  <peter1138> hi
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08:59:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12600 /trunk/src/ (8 files): -Codechange: make GetNonStopType return a more augmented type; not is there a non-stop order but the kind of non-stop order, so one doesn't need to check _patches.new_nonstop type everywhere.
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11:32:27  <Celestar> :S
11:32:38  <Celestar> Backup provider told us off for using too much space
11:33:38  <Celestar> it's only 30 TB :S
11:34:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> haha ;)
11:35:00  <Celestar> comon.
11:35:12  <Celestar> that's about 25 Tapes ...
11:35:42  <SmatZ> for the GIT repository?
11:36:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't think he talks about openttd :p
11:36:20  <SmatZ> aha
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11:46:39  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12601 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r12587): do not reset the index of orders (causes loading ancient savegames to loop infinitively.
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11:52:24  <Celestar> methinks that openttd needs nowhere near 30TB :P
11:53:46  <Rubidium> if we want to precalculate all game states we need to
11:54:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, 2^8MB is not anywhere near 30TB ;)
11:54:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> 2^(8MB)
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12:02:48  <Celestar> 8MB is about 8 million
12:03:02  <Celestar> 2^8e6 > number of mass-carrying particles in the universe
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12:04:14  <hylje> doesnt 2^128 exceed that already
12:06:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> who says you need mass to store information? :p
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12:14:30  <peter1138> hylje: unlikely to
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12:16:56  <peter1138> whoever came up with that statement was either an idiot or making a joke
12:30:11  <Celestar> peter1138: with what statement?
12:30:42  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12602 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_bridge.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: minor type in documentation
12:30:58  <peter1138> "2^128 exceeds the number of particles in the universe" (relating to ipv6)
12:31:10  <Celestar> number of mass-carrying particles
12:31:15  <Celestar> not number of partciles.
12:31:25  <peter1138> well it's still wrong
12:31:48  <Celestar> nope, because that number is estimated to be around 10^80
12:32:13  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12603 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_error.cpp ai_error.hpp ai_error.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add: 'support' for telling AIs that the last error message was a NewGRF generated message, so we can't say anything sensible about the real error message.
12:35:56  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12604 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_log.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: document LogData to make Doxygen happy
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12:37:01  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12605 /trunk/src/ (train.h train_cmd.cpp train_gui.cpp): -Cleanup: variable scope and coding style in train*
12:37:16  <Celestar> man
12:37:30  <hylje> dude
12:37:36  <Celestar> I don't get NewGRF_ports up to scratch. Shall we start a new branch or shall we restart the whole development process in trunk/ ?
12:38:49  <peter1138> hmm
12:38:59  <peter1138> i don't like branches :(
12:39:11  <peter1138> seems to make a mess of workflows
12:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> do it in the 0.6 branch ;)
12:39:42  <Celestar> peter1138: so trunk it is ;)
12:40:01  <Rubidium> Celestar: not very wise IMO to go to trunk directly
12:40:14  <Celestar> Rubidium: peter1138: then fight it out amongst yourselves :P
12:40:18  <Celestar> Rubidium: why is that?
12:40:29  <Rubidium> because then we have broken airport in about two days
12:40:40  <Rubidium> and they'll work again in six months
12:40:51  <peter1138> well when stuff is done in trunk we generally don't break it, heh
12:41:00  <Celestar> Rubidium: nope. airports will not be broken at any time.
12:41:08  <Celestar> i.e not working
12:41:35  <peter1138> hg? heh
12:41:58  <Rubidium> hg's fine by me
12:42:02  <peter1138> gah, it's impossible to find an azalia/intel hda front panel audio thingy :(
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12:43:13  <Rubidium> the main issue with NewGRF airports is that there is a vague plan to make something that might work
12:43:43  <Rubidium> the specification isn't finalised in any way and there are still loads of issues to resolve
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12:43:47  <TheJosh> hey all
12:44:00  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12606 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_bridge.hpp ai_error.hpp ai_object.hpp ai_station.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: minor documentation inconsistancy, to make doxygen even more happy
12:44:48  <Forked> happy doxygen! \O/
12:45:17  <Celestar> Rubidium: which are? :) the airport side is basically working
12:47:17  <Rubidium> the minor things like flag and such not moving, the enormous duplication of code everywhere
12:47:28  <Rubidium> total lack of callback support
12:48:22  <Celestar> 1) there's already a patch, 2) that's a big issue why I think a rewrite is needed. 3) dunno
12:49:17  <Rubidium> 'just' using string IDs that IIRC are already taken for something else
12:49:27  <peter1138> hmm?
12:50:04  <TheJosh> how is everyone?
12:50:07  <Celestar> Rubidium: ?
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12:51:54  <Rubidium> IIRC someone said that CD00 and CE00 StringID ranges are already used for something else
12:52:40  <peter1138> C4 and C5 would work
12:52:47  <peter1138> same as regular stations
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12:53:07  <peter1138> they're 'virtual' IDs local to each GRF anyway
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12:56:10  <Rubidium> the rest of the issues I can't recall at the moment and the logs are on a broken HDD
12:58:18  <peter1138> so rewrite using hg? heh
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13:10:42  <Celestar> hg?
13:12:08  <Rubidium> mercurial
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13:19:25  <Celestar> don't get it
13:20:05  <Celestar> @openttd bugs
13:20:09  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Open Bugs: 32; Not assigned: 24; Closed this week: 4; Opened this week: 7
13:20:39  <Rubidium> Celestar: mercurial is a scm and we export svn to a mercurial repository automatically
13:21:06  <Rubidium> there you can easily work without the hassle of creating a whole new branch in svn
13:21:29  <Celestar> I see
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13:28:34  <peter1138> hmm
13:30:24  <peter1138> suppose i should install hg on my new box
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14:01:05  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12607 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: SetLastError support for AIVehicle (Morloth)
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14:40:41  <THM-SFG> hello, can someone tell me if it would be possible to place only specific industries at random and not all of them?
14:41:39  <Rubidium> (if you like messing with the source) ? yes : no;
14:41:54  <Celestar> hehehe
14:42:07  <Tefad> if yes then yes if no then no.
14:42:21  <Tefad> except english and C/C++ don't mix well at all
14:42:36  <Volley> ah, they mix well enough :)
14:42:44  <Tefad> heh
14:43:34  <Volley> i just thing the "if" is wrong inside the condition
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14:45:32  <Rubidium> the "if" is just syntactic sugar
14:47:27  <THM-SFG> hmm
14:47:28  <THM-SFG> okay
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14:47:54  <Volley> i realize i hardly ever use that syntax ... have to check for correct usage now ...
14:48:14  <THM-SFG> so to say it with your words, could someone of you "mess with the source" to create such an option?
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14:50:12  <Volley> ah, gives a good explanation ... :)
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14:50:46  <Volley> and THM-SFG: well, not me. i allready fail merging patches properly :)
14:51:33  <Celestar> patch -p0 < file
14:51:34  <Celestar> ?
14:51:36  <THM-SFG> hm, i merged 4 patches yesterday ... first time i managed to do it
14:51:49  <Volley> Celestar: not applying, merging!
14:51:57  <Celestar> oh :P
14:52:28  <THM-SFG> it sometimes is important to have them in a specific order
14:52:35  <THM-SFG> i don't why, but that was my solution
14:53:05  <Diadem> Hey guys. Shouldn't there be a new train in 1963? The Floss 47?
14:53:12  <Diadem> It's 1964 now and haven't seen it
14:53:51  <Volley> THM-SFG: propably because of how well and far patch looks for a match
14:54:03  <THM-SFG> i wanted to merge close airport, update airport, extra-large-maps (like 8000x8000) and 2ap-per-player-per-town .... didn't work ... then i tried changing the order in my combined patch file
14:54:06  <THM-SFG> and it worked
14:55:03  <Volley> i wanted YAPP, timetablebased seperation, copy&paste, paxdest and a view others... i propably wanted to much
14:55:08  <THM-SFG> was a major success for someone like me with absolute no knowledge of C or that code i merged there ... haha
14:55:25  <THM-SFG> u tried to let paxdest out?
14:55:41  <THM-SFG> i wanted to include it, too
14:56:02  <Volley> well, i still have a very well working build of rc1 with most of my wishes in
14:56:03  <THM-SFG> but it didn't compiled successfully ... so i only compiled the other four patches ... that worked
14:56:53  <THM-SFG> i think there will occur a problem if you want compile paxdest with other patches and the newest builds ...
14:56:55  <Volley> not to forget: distant join stations patch, for the lazy stationlwalkers :)
14:57:15  <THM-SFG> i could compile trunk and paxdest ... but never trunk+paxdest+other patches
14:58:10  <THM-SFG> build them something to walk ... some unused train station ^^
14:59:51  <Volley> ah, early in game when a town won't let you eaven temporarily remove a piece of road and you just want to continue a station on the other side of the road... it's easier that way :)
15:00:18  <Volley> ( for example )
15:00:42  <THM-SFG> nevertheless i still could use some tool to place specific industries at random ... otherwise it will take me days to plant all the industries on my worldmap ... and i can not plant all of them at random, cause oil and coal isn't found anywhere on the world ... argh
15:04:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12608 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1909]: pressing 'Load' did not cancel the full load order.
15:08:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> Volley: you can place drive-through stops on the road
15:08:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> THM-SFG: someone talked about making such a patch a while ago (for the scenario editor)
15:09:05  <THM-SFG> u know who that somewas was?
15:09:17  <THM-SFG> perhaps it was me in the forums
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15:19:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> i can only find a feature request like this but nobody who said "i'd do it"
15:20:30  <Forked> we should rename volts to FREEDOM UNITS
15:20:35  <Forked> wrong channel and network
15:21:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> very wrong :p
15:23:37  <Belugas> but so usual... "We should..."  So, it's seems it's always the same song on every channel :)
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15:27:20  <SpComb> Forked: André-Marie AmpÚre was also French
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15:27:38  <SpComb> Alessandro Volta was Italian...
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16:04:56  <ln-> hello bjarnis
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16:08:50  <orudge> heh, the old short-lived openttd cvs on SF is still accessible
16:08:52  <orudge>
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16:12:40  <Maedhros> ooh, pre-r1
16:14:46  <orudge> lots of pre-r1 stuff around if you know where to look :P
16:14:55  * orudge has various bits of pre-r1 scattered al over the place
16:14:57  <orudge> *all
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16:17:11  <THM-SFG> i can see you all
16:17:27  <yorick> oh really?
16:17:51  <THM-SFG> yeah
16:17:54  <THM-SFG> true
16:18:08  <Geb> A quick question. Does industry growth work differently in multiplayer in terms of station ratings affecting it?
16:18:13  <THM-SFG> watchin a game, havin a ottb session ... true
16:18:16  <THM-SFG> d
16:18:20  <THM-SFG> wasabi
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16:26:22  <teop> good evening, can anyone help me with openTTD installetion in openSUSE?
16:26:43  <Mirrakor> my openTTD is running on OS
16:27:38  <teop> on my system ./config worcs fine exept for one warning:no video driver found, building dedicated only
16:28:00  <teop> i have proprietary nvidia driver installed
16:28:03  <Rubidium> install the sdl development libraries
16:28:20  <Maedhros> and make sure you get the headers too
16:28:29  <teop> so when i run make and then make install nothing happens
16:28:41  <Mirrakor> OS names the header packages <name>-devel afaik
16:28:49  <teop> i have them
16:28:59  <teop> make running without ploblems
16:29:25  <glx> teop: but it built a dedicated version
16:30:23  <glx> and driver for ottd is not the same as driver for hardware
16:30:54  <teop> so i need more development libs
16:31:46  <peter1138> sdl development libs
16:32:22  <teop> ok, thanks, i will try it
16:32:29  <teop> thx all
16:36:49  <glx> and while you are installing libs, add png and zlib if there are not present :)
16:37:16  <teop> ok:)
16:37:47  <Ammller> teop: you know, there is already a precompiled build for openSUSE?
16:38:10  <Ammller> (zypper in openttd)
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16:39:12  <teop> i didnt know, but i thing it will be good if i compile it myself, i need more practice it this things:)
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16:40:18  <Ammller> indeed :-)
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16:45:42  <teop> (offtopic)one question about compiling: how can i find from compile.log, which files i need?
16:46:15  <yorick> doesn't ./configure check?
16:47:07  <teop> it check, but i cant find in log anything about problems with sdl-devel libs
16:47:44  <teop> it even create makefile and run make
16:48:30  <teop> so i end bothering people:)
16:49:09  <glx> <teop> on my system ./config worcs fine exept for one warning:no video driver found, building dedicated only <-- that's the message :)
16:50:00  <glx> but config.log should have details on what it searched and what it found
16:50:13  <teop> oh, there "checking SDL... not found" earlier
16:51:23  <teop> but ucsually it looking for many different compilers, dont find them and everything OK in the end
16:52:30  <teop> but i think i get the basic idea, thanks
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17:02:51  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12609 /trunk/src/subsidy_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Remove wrong comments and give more comments on the drawing part of subsidies
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17:13:09  <Wolf01> hello
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17:17:38  <Mirrakor> hi
17:19:58  <Alberth> hi
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17:43:52  <Digitalfox> OMFG I just lost a HD 500GB drive in my server... Most of my Videos were there.. Shit Shit Shit
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17:44:05  <Patrick`> owned
17:44:17  <Mirrakor> ye shalt not steel :P
17:44:20  <Rubidium> then don't use striping
17:44:24  <Mirrakor> s/steel/steal
17:44:26  <Rubidium> use something 'safer'
17:44:37  <Rubidium> like RAID6+1
17:45:04  <bowman> regular raid5 has never failed me :)
17:45:33  <Digitalfox> Mirrakor who said it pirate videos?? :p
17:45:47  <Mirrakor> noone ;)
17:46:02  <Belugas> like... assuming for personnal experience? ;)
17:46:27  <Digitalfox> Hum.. I'm going to put it in the fridge :)
17:46:29  <Mirrakor> if only I'd have a 500GB drive in my server ;D
17:46:37  <Mirrakor> then I could start doing that :D
17:46:53  <Digitalfox> Some People say they can recover some data if stays 2 hours on the fridge..
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17:47:31  <Mirrakor> hm.. I don't think the fridge will solve the problem.. I guess it depends on what happend
17:48:33  <Digitalfox> But i suspect my problem is with the head
17:48:56  <Digitalfox> It makes some stupid sound like hitting a wall
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17:52:38  <peter1138> some say ten minutes over a blowtorch works
17:54:27  <glx> to make a steel sculpture :)
17:54:33  <Rubidium> all we know is... you're screwed
17:55:18  <Digitalfox> What the fuc*.. I had in the past some Hard drives who died, so it wasn't nothing new.. But now the strangest thing just happen.. After punch it it works again and Smart tests say it's 100% ok, no bad numbers.. Running a new test with seagte tools and until now it says it's fine :\
17:56:05  <peter1138> i suggest you copy everything off it and bin it
17:56:06  <glx> if it's back to work, backup
17:58:58  <orudge> [18:46:52] <Digitalfox> Some People say they can recover some data if stays 2 hours on the fridge.. <-- I had a hard disk die on me once... put it in the freezer overnight, tried it the next day, and it did work for about 20 minutes
17:59:02  <orudge> enough time for me to get important data off it
17:59:06  <orudge> but, your milage may vary, of course...
18:00:38  <Digitalfox> orudge yeah I heard it worked.. :)
18:00:47  <orudge> obviously, make sure you place the disk in some sort of appropriately sealed bag, as it may be deadly for your data if not :p
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18:00:58  <Dominik> when i turned a monitor back on after vacation it made a loud bang and a cloud of smoke emerged from it. once i had recovered from the shock i turned it back on and kept working with it for 2 more years until i got a flatscreen *g*
18:01:07  <orudge> Did you not have any sort of RAID mirroring setup on your server, then?
18:01:19  * orudge has just set up a new server, he decided to plump for RAID-1 + LVM
18:02:27  <Digitalfox> orudge no I don't.. I did had RAID 1, but needed the disck for another RAID1 of a Client...
18:02:48  <glx> oups :)
18:04:45  <orudge> oops indeed
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18:04:47  <orudge> sod's law, that
18:04:53  <Digitalfox> yeah :\
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18:05:13  <Digitalfox> Well at least I'll back up now.. And send RMA to seagate
18:05:59  <Digitalfox> What a scary 30 minutes I just had.. :|
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18:10:35  *** Wolf01 is now known as Wolf01|AWAY
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18:24:57  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12610 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: a subsidiary is a 'subcompany' and not the financial bonus for routes which is called a subsidy.
18:26:48  <peter1138> heh
18:27:07  <hylje> subsidiaries, wut
18:29:24  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12611 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_vehicle.cpp: [NoAI] -Codechange: use EnforcePrecondition where possible in AIVehicle. Patch by Morloth.
18:32:54  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12612 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError for AITunnel. Patch by Morloth.
18:33:17  <Belugas> Wolf01|AWAY, of course, if EVER fundind towns are granted, vanishing towns will be too, but not on an user basis, of course
18:33:56  <Belugas> your arguments are not bad, i must say.  but.. something makes me feel like funding a town is not in the TTD pattern at all...
18:34:44  <orudge> how often do you hear of transport companies funding a town in the real world, though?
18:34:55  <orudge> an industry, perhaps... but a town seems a bit unrealistic
18:35:02  <orudge> in the early days, of course, towns may build up around transport routes
18:35:09  <orudge> but it's rare a company will actually "start" a town
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18:35:22  <yorick> the people that built the railways did need to sleep somewhere
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18:37:28  <Belugas> yeah... they funded a town everytime they need a bed ;)
18:37:35  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12613 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (5 files): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError in AITile. Patch by Morloth.
18:37:41  <Belugas> so along every rails, you will find ghost towns :P
18:38:41  <Belugas> i agree wth orudge.  Most of the time, a town funded by a company will always be a temporary one during construction of a remote industry or similar big project
18:38:50  <Belugas> a mine even...
18:39:01  <Belugas> but by essence, they are not permanent
18:39:09  <Belugas> -by + in
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18:42:01  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12614 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (5 files): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError in AISign. Patch by Morloth.
18:46:20  <Strong99`> ey
18:46:41  <Strong99`> i got a question over the network architecture
18:47:18  <Rubidium> is that a new way to ask whether you may as a question?
18:47:36  <yorick> yes, it got introduced a week ago
18:48:08  <yorick> ask
18:48:39  <Strong99`> i want to make a web controller for my dedicated server
18:48:54  <Strong99`> and wanted to know how the packets are configured,
18:48:57  <yorick> and I wish you good luck if you come with such a question
18:49:09  <Strong99`> the wiki doesn't say much about that
18:50:13  <Rubidium> the server can't be 'controlled' by means of a network connection, well only when you add a full blown client to the other end which is not the thing you want.
18:50:47  <Strong99`> do you have an other sugestion?
18:50:53  <yorick> rconning works without being an actualy client
18:50:57  <yorick> actual*
18:51:18  <Strong99`> yes thats what i wanted to get working
18:51:23  <yorick>
18:52:09  <Rubidium> yorick: really? do you have proof of that?
18:52:46  <yorick> yeah...but you need to have send a PACKET_CLIENT_JOIN and such
18:53:34  <yorick> and be waiting for map/downloading one
18:53:35  <Strong99`> yes but the server starts sending map info after that
18:53:41  <yorick> yes
18:53:51  <Strong99`> not useful for web :P
18:53:55  <yorick> patch a server so it does not
18:54:01  <yorick> or just disgard that info
18:54:05  <yorick> store it
18:54:08  <yorick> or whatever
18:54:49  <Strong99`> but than you this: "well only when you add a full blown client" as @Rubidium said
18:55:02  <yorick> no other way
18:55:02  <Strong99`> than you get *
18:55:05  <Maedhros> hehe, i like Wolf01's 0.7.0 roadmap
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18:55:25  <yorick> huh, where?
18:56:11  <Maedhros> yorick: (if you were talking to me)
18:56:26  <yorick> I was
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19:08:04  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
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19:08:17  *** mode/#openttd [+v michi_cc] by ChanServ
19:08:45  <Bjarni> home sweet home
19:08:55  <Bjarni> finally home
19:09:13  <Bjarni> Bjarni!
19:09:15  <Bjarni> hah
19:09:19  <Bjarni> I beat you to it :P
19:12:25  <ln-> el Bjarni
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19:19:08  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12615 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: rename some enums related to depot orders to make it more clear that they are no loading/unloading flags. Also add more type strictness.
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19:42:51  <kloopy> Good evening everyone. I've read all about net_frame_freq as one of my friends has trouble connecting to any Internet server. when I'm hosting I get the "try increasing net_frame_freq" but that's no help at all.
19:43:25  <kloopy> I've given him my complete folder to see if that helps, unless he's a newbie and messed up extracting my zip file, he's on exactly the same version (0.6.0 stable)
19:43:27  <peter1138> what size map?
19:43:32  <kloopy> 512x256
19:44:08  <kloopy> He's on broadband at about 5Mb down and the standard UK up bandwidth.
19:44:19  <kloopy> So he should be able to keep the ~3k/sec no problem.
19:44:35  <Rubidium> it's more the CPU that can't cope with the game I guess
19:45:04  <kloopy> He's using a Core 2 Duo so I'd assume that should cope.
19:45:10  <kloopy> :)
19:45:32  <Bjarni> OpenTTD is singlethreaded and will not use more than one core
19:45:40  <Bjarni> however each core should be fast enough on it's own
19:45:42  <kloopy> He's using Vista... are there any issues with the net code for Vista (32bit home premium)?
19:45:45  <Patrick`> yeah, I was gonna say
19:45:53  <Patrick`> unless each thread is clocked to 100mhz
19:45:55  <Bjarni> that's the problem
19:46:01  <Bjarni> it's an MS OS :P
19:46:01  <Patrick`> kloopy: good question, we don't know
19:46:04  <Rubidium> then he might have a mighty big spyware/adware/whateverisnotgoodware issue I guess
19:46:07  <Patrick`> any I don't think anyone wants to find out
19:46:12  <kloopy> lol
19:46:15  <Patrick`> yeah, if his machine is riddled and it's flooding up
19:46:17  <kloopy> He's on his way now. :)
19:46:17  *** A2 [] has joined #openttd
19:46:22  <kloopy> This is him. :)
19:46:29  <kloopy> A2, are you spammed with spyware?
19:46:33  <peter1138> 5 mbps is no use when it's saturated with bittorrent ;)
19:46:34  <Bjarni> hello "him"
19:46:35  <A2> nope.
19:46:43  <kloopy> He's running IRC and OpenTTD apparantly.
19:46:48  <A2> pc used for the occasional torrent is completely switched off
19:46:54  <kloopy> (unless there's some major porn obsession he's not telling us about)
19:47:14  <A2> only things connecting to internet are: mIRC, Vent, OpenTTD(occasionally) and firefox which is viewing BBCNews
19:47:23  <bowman> I've played in vista without issues, at least briefly
19:47:28  <A2> (static page, not a video or anything like that)
19:47:32  <kloopy> Multiplayer over the Internet, bowman?
19:47:35  <bowman> yes
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19:47:37  <kloopy> hmm
19:47:38  <A2> the game works perfectly on single player
19:47:38  <webvictim> perhaps he's actually a root nameserver and doesn't realise ;)
19:47:51  <Rubidium> when does the client get kicked? Very quickly after joining?
19:47:54  <A2> and we've had it working quite happily on multiplayer this week with no trouble
19:47:58  <Rubidium> or even during downloading the map?
19:47:58  <A2> about 2 minutes
19:48:02  <bowman> then again I usually turn of all the crap that typically causes problems for vista users so its really not that different from xp
19:48:18  <webvictim> the server gets constantly spammed with "client #x is slow" messages, too.
19:48:22  <kloopy> No, I get about 6 or 7 messages about "try increasing net_frame_freq" and eventually after a few minutes he's dropped saying "no reply in 4 days"
19:48:29  <webvictim> (i'm part of this same game :>)
19:48:41  <kloopy> Downloading the map is fine, Rubidium.
19:48:52  <Bjarni> A2: I can't ping you (firewall or something) so maybe you should try to ping something on the internet to see if you get decent ping times
19:48:54  <A2> map download takes about 30 seconds
19:48:59  <Bjarni> hmm
19:49:04  <Rubidium> then his computer can't keep up with the server (you've just shown the classic symptoms)
19:49:05  <A2> where would you like me to ping?
19:49:09  <kloopy> A2, ping the server...
19:49:10  <peter1138> ...
19:49:12  <kloopy> that's a good idea.
19:49:17  <peter1138> 30 seconds? for a 512x256 on 5mpbs?
19:49:21  <peter1138> that seems rather high
19:49:31  <Bjarni> yeah
19:49:45  <webvictim> it does, i have to say
19:49:53  <peter1138> is the server on adsl too?
19:49:57  <webvictim> kloopy's outgoing bandwidth is >1mbit too
19:49:59  <Rubidium> it still smells like spyware/adware/whateverisnotgoodware infestation
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19:50:09  <A2> Pinging [] with 32 bytes of data:
19:50:09  <A2> Reply from bytes=32 time=136ms TTL=48
19:50:11  <kloopy> Yes, BeThere 24Mb down 1.25Mb up.
19:50:23  <Rubidium> or a number of rogue processes
19:50:26  <SmatZ> 512x256 map should have ~256kB
19:50:27  <A2> thats a transatlantic ping
19:50:33  <peter1138> so that should be 10 seconds max
19:50:51  <kloopy> What does Task Manager say your CPU usage is at, A2?
19:50:53  <A2> pinging the server:
19:50:54  <A2> Pinging [] with 32 bytes of data:
19:50:54  <A2> Reply from bytes=32 time=136ms TTL=48
19:50:54  <peter1138> you have 'pause on join' enabled, i take it? (it's default)
19:51:05  <kloopy> Yes, Peter.
19:51:46  <SmatZ> it happens to me sometimes, that even on LAN, I am downloading OTTD map at ~50kB/s ...
19:52:04  <A2> sorry: pinging the server gives:
19:52:05  <SmatZ> I think it is caused by high CPU load, as peter1138 mentioned
19:52:05  <A2> Pinging [] with 32 bytes of data:
19:52:05  <A2> Reply from bytes=32 time=28ms TTL=56
19:52:23  <A2> CPU usage 13%
19:52:42  <A2> most of which is task manager :)
19:52:43  <Bjarni> A2: <-- try the free trial virus/trojan horse/spyware scanner from this place
19:53:23  <kloopy> He's just doing that now.
19:53:43  <peter1138> did i mention high cpu load?
19:53:46  <A2> getting the antivirus wotsit from it now
19:54:46  <A2> I get full frame rate from other games at this time of night
19:54:46  <SmatZ> peter1138: pause during downloading reduces CPU load a lot :)
19:54:59  <SmatZ> I understood you you mentioned this because of CPU load
19:55:08  <peter1138> no
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19:55:38  <peter1138> i mentioned it because 30 seconds without pause on join enabled will usually not work
19:55:59  <kloopy> He's just joining my server again now and we're going to check his CPU load whilst he's on the server.
19:56:30  <Belugas> anyone else but A2 tried to access your server?
19:56:45  <kloopy> Yes, we've had about 5 other people around the country playing with no problems at all.
19:57:49  <kloopy> His CPU load doesn't increase above the idle rate whilst in-game.
19:57:53  <kloopy> :(
19:57:54  <A2> from test of CPU load before & after connecting to server - its the same
19:58:17  <A2> get a slight peak while loading map up to 17%, but that would be expected
19:58:33  <A2> and now averaging about 8%
19:58:35  <kloopy> A2, are you about to boot into XP to test connecting from that OS to see whether it's something wrong with a) Vista compatibility or b) your Vista install.
19:58:47  <kloopy> If you still ahve the problems in XP, then it's more likely your ISP.
19:59:20  *** helb [~helb@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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20:00:42  <A2> I shall retry in XP - back in a few mins
20:00:51  *** A2 [] has quit [Quit: <@Igloo> sorry but servers just do it for me <@Igloo> There shiney metal <@Igloo> ANd spinny wizzy fans <@Igloo> And oooooooo ;D * @Igloo spurts]
20:01:35  <kloopy> Thanks for your help everyone, by the way... We really appreciate it. You'd not get this kind of support from the developers for any paid game. You're kind people and doing a great job! *bows* :D
20:02:49  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12616 /trunk/src/ (command.cpp command_type.h): -Codechange: r12591 didn't work as expected for NDS, move one function back to cpp
20:03:58  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12617 /trunk/src/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: add type safety to the Order's load and unload types.
20:04:48  *** lobster [~aap@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
20:05:04  <kloopy> Another quick, unrelated question: We were playing last Sunday and got to 1989 and we didn't get electrified rails (starting in 1969). Any idea why a) we didn't start with them and b) didn't get them at any point after that?
20:05:22  <kloopy> I presume it's just some silly mistake I've made with the configuration of my server, but I couldn't find what.
20:06:07  *** lobster [~aap@] has joined #openttd
20:06:24  <peter1138> non-temperate map?
20:06:39  <kloopy> Desert.
20:06:42  <kloopy> Erm.
20:06:44  <peter1138> yeah
20:06:44  *** A2 [] has joined #openttd
20:06:46  <kloopy> No, snow one.
20:06:47  <kloopy> :)
20:06:49  <A2> now on XP
20:06:50  <peter1138> arctic
20:06:53  <kloopy> Last Sunday, it was snow. :)
20:06:55  <kloopy> Yes, tahnks. :)
20:07:06  <peter1138> no electric engines by default in that climate
20:07:33  <kloopy> Aha, ok! Thanks. That answers it.: )
20:08:21  <A2> on XP - no difference to Vista
20:08:31  <A2> and CPU usage approx the same
20:08:34  <kloopy> So it must be an ISP thing, I guess.
20:09:10  <A2> even if they throttled me in the evenings though a 3kb/s connection should work
20:09:35  <webvictim> i'd expect to get that on dialup, tbh ;)
20:10:01  <A2> also Ventrilo is working quite happily
20:10:13  <A2> and other games like TF2 work fine at this time of the evening
20:10:46  <Alberth> Aircraft are still stuck at r12609, it seems
20:10:55  <Rubidium> might be the connection to kloopy within one of your providers that causes the problem though
20:11:15  <kloopy> We also had webvictim hosting on another ISP altogether and A2 had the same problem still.
20:11:17  <A2> we had this problem last week as well - and webvictim tried hosting instead
20:11:21  <A2> and same problem.
20:11:57  <A2> anyway - I'm rebooting back to Vista as the OS doesn't make a difference, but my screens are the right way round there :) - brb
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20:19:04  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12618 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: as load and unload type are now split, some case statements got ugly.
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20:28:10  <Patrick`> I'm thinking of getting into competitive ttd
20:28:24  <Patrick`> coop meets my ideals but it's a bit of a big step
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20:28:42  <Patrick`> so what, just hop on a newish server and start building?
20:29:10  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12619 /trunk/src/ (10 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: lots of documentation about window related stuff. Patch by Alberth.
20:29:10  <Patrick`> or are there some pitfalls I should know about, like I know a while back some guy on the forums was running a "be a total fucking dickwad" server where ettiquete was banned
20:32:38  <kloopy> For anyone who is interested in the A2 problem... It looks like Demon Internet are traffic shaping his connection so severely that it breaks OpenTTD.
20:32:49  <kloopy> I've setup port forwarding on port 80 on my server and that port is working fine for him.
20:33:04  <A2> I shall call them and shout at them tommorrow
20:33:04  <kloopy> So if anyone has this trouble in future, perhaps a port 80 approach could be suggested to them.
20:33:08  <kloopy> :)
20:33:31  <glx> silly ISPs ;)
20:34:01  <A2> you'd have thought they wouldn't bother traffic shaping a 3kb/s connection realy
20:34:22  <Rubidium> probably some botnet has taken the port number
20:34:29  <glx> they probably filter ports
20:34:59  <Bjarni> if they don't like the port then we would be really interested to know it and also to know why they don't like it
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20:49:15  <michi_cc> Rubidium: I think you broke depot orders. OrderDepotTypeFlags and OrderDepotActionFlags map to the same values in order.flags
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20:50:16  <Rubidium> that happened previously too
20:50:52  <michi_cc> well, ODATFB_HALT and ODTFB_SERVICE now share one bit which can't be right
20:51:13  <Rubidium> michi_cc, as I said: they did before
20:51:33  <Rubidium> I'm currently just adding accessors to the 'current' format
20:51:39  <Rubidium> so I can change the format easily
20:51:56  <michi_cc> then something else is broken, because my trains suddenly stop when being serviced
20:52:44  <Rubidium> serviced in which manner?
20:53:01  <michi_cc> automatic train servicing
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20:58:04  <Rubidium> michi_cc: does solve the issue?
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20:59:54  <michi_cc> checking
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21:01:58  <michi_cc> Rubidium: it does
21:02:39  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12620 /trunk/src/order_base.h: -Fix: automatic servicing of vehicles made them stop in the depot.
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21:07:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> bah, it's cold
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21:35:57  <Ammller> omg, just realized the virtual keyboard for password entry :-)
21:36:23  <Ammller> soo sweet
21:37:19  <Rubidium> it's been there already in two months
21:37:38  <Ammller> but only for pw, not the usual signs?
21:37:56  <Rubidium> for every text input box
21:38:02  <Bjarni> sometimes people request stuff we already coded
21:38:30  <Bjarni> I wonder when the next guy will request a feature to automatically upgrade to new vehicles when they are available
21:38:40  <Bjarni> it happens once in a while (not often though)
21:39:05  <Ammller> :-)
21:39:08  <ln-> i request and demand the game to have airplanes.
21:39:29  <Ammller> but I am not able to get that keyboard ingame
21:39:46  <Rubidium> click on the 'edit box'
21:39:47  <peter1138> 2 months?
21:40:12  <Rubidium> March and April
21:40:15  <peter1138> lol
21:40:27  <Bjarni> I like the guy who requested signal on bridges. He was sure that it's not possible just because nobody thought about it until he did
21:40:29  <peter1138> that's not the usual meaning of 2 months
21:41:00  <Ammller> ah, stupid me, I tried with 0.6.0
21:41:04  <Bjarni> sure that's the reason... we aren't creative enough to imagine that people could use signals on bridges
21:41:26  <Bjarni> <Ammller> ah, stupid me <-- it would be rude to disagree with you :P
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21:42:01  <Ammller> played around with expect, but its not possible to send server pw, is it?
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21:42:22  <Ammller> not possible to access GUI
21:43:45  <Ammller> btw, from where does the vitual keybord take the layout?
21:44:00  <Ammller> I play with english language but have a german keyboard
21:44:10  <Rubidium> your config file
21:44:24  <Rubidium> you probably started in German when it was introduced
21:44:33  <glx> language file if not in config
21:45:32  <Rubidium> glx: first it tries config and if that's empty, then the language file
21:45:44  <Ammller> oh yes, the language, it was german from 0.6
21:46:15  <Rubidium> closing OTTD will probably give you the English version then, I guess
21:46:16  <Ammller> well, that isn't really important, but sweet. :-)
21:46:27  <Bjarni> it is important
21:46:36  <Bjarni> for handheld keyboardless devices
21:46:38  <Ammller> after switch to english, its english now
21:46:46  <Ammller> oh, yeah, indeed.
21:48:07  <Ammller> is there possible somehow to enable copy&paste?
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21:54:22  <Bjarni> no comment
21:55:42  <Ammller> hmm, Scrap
21:57:59  <ln-> did you mean: Sacro
21:58:36  <Ammller> no, scrap is the name of clipboard support for OSX
21:59:00  <Rubidium> Ammller: s/s//
21:59:07  <ln-> did you mean: OS X
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22:08:41  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12621 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (9 files): [NoAI] -Add: support for GetLastError in AIRoad.
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22:15:42  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12622 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix: infinite loop in case your compiler decides that enums are unsigned by default. Patch by Dominik.
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23:40:13  <Wolf01|AWAY> 'night
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