Log for #openttd on 17th April 2008:
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00:38:04  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12744 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (38 files): [NoAI] -Fix: added a comment to all .hpp.sq that those files are autogenerated, and shouldn't be manually altered
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00:44:32  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12745 /trunk/src/ (20 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: a bit of naming conventions, introduce Is*DepotTile()
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01:40:55  <Gekz> OMG
01:40:59  <Gekz> my train esploded
01:41:04  <Gekz> due to "flooding"
01:41:07  <Gekz> and then it sunk
01:41:12  <Gekz> and I said "George, wtf."
01:48:57  <Belugas> what's the bad part?  that you said George? or that your train exploded? or that it flooded or that it sunk?
01:49:11  <Belugas> saying George wtf is pretty bad indeed
01:58:22  <governor> especially if you don't know a George...
02:03:16  <Belugas> but we all do know a George :)
02:05:45  <Digitalfox_Home> hum.. George Bush? =0
02:10:30  <Lakie> I think he means the newGrf authoer George.
02:11:33  <Digitalfox_Home> Lakie I know ;), I was just joking with Belugas =0
02:11:47  <Belugas> hehe
02:11:58  <Lakie> Wow, loads of warnings
02:12:18  <Lakie> Mostly 'warning C4800: 'TileIndex' : forcing value to bool 'true' or 'false' (performance warning)'
02:12:21  <Belugas> Why the hell are you all still up???
02:12:29  <Lakie> Was playing ut3
02:12:53  <Belugas> if only i coiuld be a student again...
02:13:06  <Belugas> i'm working at home and debugging ottd
02:13:09  <Belugas> fun fun fun
02:13:26  <Lakie> Hmmm... 39 warnings
02:13:28  <Lakie> gah
02:14:16  <Lakie> Digitalfox_Home: which OS do you use?
02:14:52  <Digitalfox_Home> Windows XP, Vista, Server 2008
02:15:17  <Digitalfox_Home> And Fedora
02:15:34  <Lakie> On Vista does my icon work ok?
02:15:41  <Digitalfox_Home> Yes
02:15:45  <Lakie> And on XP?
02:16:02  <Digitalfox_Home> didn't test it there
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02:16:16  <Lakie> Hmm... should work as its just an extended icon
02:16:20  <Lakie> form of the icon*
02:16:26  <Digitalfox_Home> I agree
02:16:40  * Lakie pokes Belugas.
02:17:01  * Lakie likes his large icons.
02:17:19  <Lakie> My usb pen has a cat with a fishing rod attached to it witha fish on the end
02:18:10  <governor> Are the NDS binaries something that should not be talked about?
02:18:39  <Belugas> oh... icon...
02:18:43  <Belugas> oh fuck...
02:22:02  <governor> I finally understand signals :)
02:28:00  <Lakie> Don't worry too much about it Belugas, like I said its a cosmetic thing
02:28:08  <Lakie> Worry about the code first. :(
02:28:10  <Lakie> :) *
02:28:10  <Belugas> yeah, but i promised...
02:28:13  <Belugas> and wow!
02:28:19  <Belugas> 200 k????
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02:28:57  <Lakie> It is quite large, you do know having 256x256x32bit takes up quite some space!
02:29:31  <Lakie> Well, actually it has 3 formats more, 96, 128 and 256
02:29:39  * Lakie could do the maths
02:32:58  <Lakie> 39,814 + (3 headers) 3 * 16 + (96px) 36,864 + (128px) 65536 + (256px) 262,144=404406
02:33:30  <Lakie> Expect... it doesn't add up to that for some reason
02:33:32  <Lakie> o_O
02:33:46  <Lakie> adds upto halve
02:33:54  <Belugas> only two icons on there... is it normal?
02:34:06  <Lakie> icons are basically stored as bitmaps
02:34:08  <Belugas> and WHAT IS THE VALUES THAT PIKKA AWAITS?????
02:34:17  <Belugas> -IS + ARE
02:34:24  <Lakie> ?
02:35:09  <Lakie> Link, Belugas?
02:35:24  * Lakie runs it through icongrabber
02:35:36  <Lakie> Something I wrote which can break an icon file down
02:35:50  <Belugas> his quarry...
02:35:58  <Belugas> i can't make it built
02:36:24  <Belugas> i 've been fighting that beast for a while now
02:36:31  <Belugas> that and stupid work@work stuff
02:36:38  <Lakie> Gah, why can't I make the figures add upto what it is, everything I work out tells me it should be larger
02:38:34  <Belugas> i give up
02:38:39  <Belugas> i'll go to sleep
02:38:42  <Belugas> too tired
02:38:48  <Belugas> see you tomorrow
02:38:54  * Belugas is now gone
02:40:36  <Lakie> Night
02:40:58  <Lakie> This is really odd, the 256 icon itself should be larger than 200k and yet it fits happily with the rest under 200k
02:41:01  * Lakie gives up
02:44:50  <Lakie> Odd, its havle the size it should be so I'm happy
02:44:57  <Lakie> (and it all works, so meh)
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03:24:42  <governor> Is there a way to disable autosave?
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03:31:34  <governor> Nevermind, I found it
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06:53:19  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12746 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: Add map storage for station animation frame
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06:54:04  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12747 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Codechange: Add varaction retrieval of station animation frame
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07:29:34  <Trond> peter1138: are we getting animated stations soon?? :O
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07:53:37  <Roest> morning
07:54:16  <Celestar> morning
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08:06:10  <SirBob> does anyone know what i'd have to do (codewise) to find the length of a rv/tram
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08:09:06  <Noldo> who is in the position to change where points?
08:10:01  <peter1138> why?
08:10:27  <peter1138> oh, the web redirect?
08:10:34  <peter1138> truelight probably
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08:13:45  <Noldo> it points to svn/trunk.hg/shortlog which doesn't exist
08:17:04  <Roest> sirbob: cached_veh_length in vehicle_base.h i'd say
08:18:54  <peter1138> hmm, there's no cached_total_length for RVs
08:19:30  <Roest> guess that's the reason why articulated rv's overlap
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08:19:59  <peter1138> unlikely
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08:21:20  <Roest> so my last question yesterday when everyone was at sleep already: does anyone use the modern trams grf?
08:21:53  <peter1138> not me
08:21:57  <Roest> is it a bug/conflict with other grfs that they all are available in 1920
08:22:05  <Roest> or is it coded that way?
08:22:32  <Ammler> Roest: did you read the thread about it?
08:23:33  <Ammler> they have no technical data yet, iirc
08:23:40  <Roest> umm searching :/
08:24:52  <Roest> yea i've been to that thread, not sure if i read all pages
08:30:18  <Ammler> you need only the first post, iirc :-)
08:30:47  <Ammler> should be noted something about missing stats
08:31:33  <Roest> oh not this one then
08:32:22  <Ammler> I guess, they have also all same speed and cap
08:32:55  <Roest> yea kinda sucks, it's the best set graphicswise out there i think
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08:34:28  <extspotter> heya
08:34:37  <extspotter> is anyone here online on OTTD
08:35:47  <planetmaker> hey.
08:36:28  <extspotter> If I make a game, would anyone join (I thiunk it would be with UKRS and with the pikka industries)
08:36:41  <planetmaker> sorry, I won't now :)
08:36:54  <extspotter> awww
08:37:02  <planetmaker> Evening hours are much more likely to catch interested people...
08:37:05  <extspotter> yeah
08:37:22  <planetmaker> (it's no good style to have ottd run at work...)
08:38:07  <Roest> too few and wrong grfs for my taste
08:40:18  <Ammler> Roest: dutch trams, uktrams or hiroshima are also nice
08:40:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12748 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ [NoAI] -Fix r12744: a change in $Id$ is not a change
08:41:02  <SirBob> so, how would i go about finding the total rv length?
08:41:12  <SirBob> or cant i?
08:42:06  <peter1138> loop the vehicles in the chain
08:42:19  <peter1138> or add a cache for the total length
08:42:56  <extspotter> to join my game, you need pikka's basic industries, UKRS, new depots and GRVTS
08:43:57  <peter1138> common enough
08:44:49  <Ammler> is GRVTS german rvs? or generic?
08:45:08  <Gekz> generic
08:45:18  <Gekz> not enough road vehicle sets
08:45:23  <Gekz> and GRVTS sucks imo
08:45:32  <Gekz> it's unexciting
08:46:51  <peter1138> it is unexciting but it does cover everything
08:47:19  <Gekz> I want excitement in the morning
08:47:26  * Celestar pokes Gekz
08:47:30  <Celestar> there's your excitement
08:49:09  <peter1138> excitement like committing the engine pool?
08:49:45  <Celestar> when was the last time Kudr showed up?
08:50:00  <peter1138> !seen kudr
08:50:03  <peter1138> @seen kudr
08:50:04  <DorpsGek> peter1138: kudr was last seen in #openttd 25 weeks, 0 days, 18 hours, 25 minutes, and 37 seconds ago: <KUDr> good
08:50:07  <peter1138> hmm
08:50:11  <peter1138> more recently than that
08:50:41  <peter1138> what's up? heh
08:50:58  <Celestar> peter1138: PBS, newsignalling, yapp ....
08:51:07  <Celestar> I had some ideas :)
08:51:16  <peter1138> well yapp was michi_cc's
08:51:27  <peter1138> *is*
08:51:35  <peter1138> what ideas?
08:51:41  * peter1138 likes yapp as it is ;)
08:51:46  <Celestar> it works?
08:51:48  <peter1138> yes
08:51:51  <Celestar> it's well coded?
08:52:10  <peter1138> yes, when i last looked
08:52:35  <Celestar> so why isn't it in yet?
08:52:46  <peter1138> cos it'll make 0.6.0 obsolete ;)
08:52:59  <peter1138> actually there were some issues in version 5
08:53:11  <peter1138> and some performance issues need taking care of, i believe
08:53:26  <Celestar> I see :)
08:53:36  <Roest> guess we need 0.6.1 then
08:53:54  <peter1138> nope, that'll be for bugfixes of 0.6.0 only
08:54:08  <peter1138> i never experienced performance issues myself, as i only have small networks
08:54:22  <peter1138> (and maybe the core 2 helps...)
08:54:24  <Roest> so you saying, it won't go in before 0.7.0?
08:54:33  <peter1138> ... yes
08:54:39  <Celestar> Roest: 0.6.n are bugfix versions of 0.6.0
08:54:46  <Celestar> where n >= 1
08:55:02  <Celestar> peter1138: what about me testing Yapp? I have a number of hugeass games
08:55:24  <peter1138> issues with yapp: people don't bother reading how to use it properly
08:55:28  <Celestar> lol
08:55:34  <peter1138> and... er... that's it
08:55:36  <Roest> lol
08:55:51  <peter1138> some people complain that 'priority signalling' doesn't work with it
08:55:52  <Celestar> is it better than TTDPs'? ;)
08:56:00  <peter1138> which is rubbish, as the old style signals still work
08:56:03  <Celestar> that's not part of trunk, is it?
08:56:08  <peter1138> far better :)
08:56:16  <Ammler> Celestar: much better, because of the penalties
08:56:18  <Roest> priority signaling is only for those strange coop guys
08:56:21  <peter1138> Celestar: 'priority signalling' == 'abusing presignal combinations'
08:56:30  <Celestar> I see
08:56:37  <peter1138> and as they are not removed, i don't see the problem
08:57:07  <peter1138> from my point of view, yapp is perfect
08:58:04  <Celestar> want me to profile it? :)
08:58:17  <peter1138> when properly signalled, no deadlocks, no crashes...
08:58:21  <peter1138> if you want
08:58:34  <Celestar> what pf does it use?
08:58:40  <Ammler> about 50% more cpu usage, I would say
08:58:59  <peter1138> Ammler: with yapp signals everywhere or just at junctions?
08:59:31  <peter1138> (and which version?, heh)
08:59:35  <Ammler> its just experience not mesured
08:59:42  <peter1138> ah, so a bullshit figure then
08:59:45  <Ammler> was with a 4er
08:59:51  <peter1138> it's bound to take up some more cpu time, granted
09:00:16  <Ammler> we spoke about that already here...
09:02:25  <Ammler> we made 3-line Mainlines with the middle one bidirectional
09:02:35  <Ammler> so yes pbs everywhere
09:02:59  <Ammler> btw. that wokred nice
09:03:31  <peter1138> difficult to measure that as that arrangement wouldn't be used normally
09:03:49  <peter1138> so performance could be up because it's doing more pathfinding because trains are stopped less often
09:03:57  <peter1138> err, s/performance/cpu usage/
09:04:44  <Ammler> no, you can't build more efficient networks with pbs,
09:05:12  <peter1138> you've got loads of junctions on that 3-lane track, all require path finding
09:05:32  <Ammler> yes
09:05:33  <peter1138> when you have 4-lane, 2 each way, most of the time it's just straight track with no pathfinding
09:05:44  <peter1138> so that could easily bump up the cpu usage
09:05:59  <Ammler> yep
09:06:18  <peter1138> and if that's the case, it's not a "50% performance hit" for using pbs
09:07:52  <Roest> ah crap right when we  found yapp to be ok, someone reports an assertion
09:08:18  <Kloopy> I disagree that YAPP would make 0.6.0 obsolete.... there are a load of awesome features in it that will never be made obsolete, delaying the introduction of new features because of a recent release seems silly. But saying that I accept there are good reasons for a planned development cycle.
09:09:21  <Rubidium> peter1138: isn't the point of path based signalling to get a higher throughput through junctions?
09:09:59  <Roest> i see it from a patch junkie point of view, more in trunk, less to merge :)
09:12:28  <peter1138> Rubidium: yes
09:12:55  <peter1138> Rubidium: your point? :)
09:13:37  <peter1138> gah, i need to be at home
09:13:45  <peter1138> (to test station animation, heh)
09:13:46  <Rubidium> it didn't quite do that last time I tried YAPP
09:13:52  <peter1138> it worked for me
09:14:08  <Rubidium> but then again, my station layouts may be a little awkward
09:14:22  <peter1138> i was only giving it 'normal' use though
09:14:56  <Rubidium> and I'm sure that TTDP style PBS would do the trick
09:16:21  <peter1138> in that particular case, or in general?
09:16:38  <Rubidium> at least in my case
09:16:42  <peter1138> i didn't see a screenshot of your problem
09:17:58  <Roest> rubidum: was that newgrf window killed because it doesn't work on low resolutions, or could we get it in with a switch to use the old style there?
09:18:20  <Rubidium> killed?
09:18:29  <Roest> meaning rejected
09:18:58  <Rubidium> AFAICT I never rejected it
09:19:22  <Rubidium> I maybe gave some concerns I had with it
09:19:36  <Roest> well i guess you question about 320x240 kinda derailed that thread and nycom gave up
09:19:50  <Rubidium> just never had the time/intent to take a look at it more thoroughly
09:19:52  <Kloopy> lol "derailed"
09:20:31  <Ammler> Roest: did you find out, how to resize horizontal?
09:20:52  <Rubidium> and having multiple windows doing exactly the same thing is asking for the need to fix bugs twice (and forgetting about the need to do it, so even more bugfixing is needed)
09:21:09  <Roest> yes, but i didn't get myself to do it, just need to set the right flags for all the widgets
09:21:45  <Roest> rubidum: agreed but it's certainly more comfortable than the current way
09:22:06  <Ammler> would it possible to have both windows open and not closing after every selected grf?
09:22:23  <Roest> think so
09:22:51  <Rubidium> Roest: you better start using tab-completion of (nick)names
09:23:15  <Gekz> Lol
09:23:18  <Gekz> rubidum!
09:23:35  <Roest> Ammler: without looking at the code, i'd say the select grf button also invokes a close window command which could be removed
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09:30:11  <ln> !
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09:37:23  <Roest> icebears...
09:37:40  <hylje> polar bears
09:38:04  <Roest> indeed
09:39:22  <hylje> (how do they know apples?)
09:40:46  <Roest> you lost me there
09:43:07  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12749 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: store the viewport information in the windows that have a viewport instead of one global array with a viewport for each window, even when they do not use the viewport.
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09:46:18  <SirBob> woot. my patch now supports rv's
09:46:35  <ralph_> what does it do?
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09:46:49  <SirBob> sorts trains and rv's by length
09:48:01  <hylje> link
09:48:16  <Celestar> ping
09:48:19  <Roest> pong
09:48:23  <Celestar> thanks
09:48:24  <hylje> ba-dum-tss
09:49:14  <Roest> woot it's noon and again i didnt do a single piece of work yet
09:50:33  <Noldo> I know the feeling
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09:51:17  <bowman> got that beat, no actual work done since november
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09:56:37  <Celestar> :o
09:56:45  <Celestar> 0.5.3 has been downloada about 250.000 times?
09:57:27  * Celestar wonders whether TTO was sold that often :P
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09:58:44  <Kloopy> Can you still get TTD?
09:58:56  <Noldo> used maybe
09:59:09  <Celestar> 0.3.3 (first version I started coding on) at about 18.000 downloads
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10:14:02  <SmatZ> hello
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10:45:55  <Aerandir> woot woot :D
10:45:58  <Aerandir> one has to love ttd
10:46:21  <Sionide> one does
10:46:50  <dih> does one?
10:46:51  <peter1138> yes, it's a criminal offence not to
10:51:37  <Aerandir> :D:D
11:04:33  <extspotter> I have started a game on OTTD
11:04:49  <extspotter> with just the UKRS set if anyone wants to join !UKRS [Fair Game]
11:04:50  <Sionide> well done
11:05:01  <Sionide> you're exempt from criminal prosecution
11:05:08  <extspotter> yay
11:05:09  <Sionide> on that charge anyway
11:05:13  <Celestar> ^^
11:05:16  <extspotter> can someone come play with me?
11:05:23  <extspotter> I always end up on my own
11:05:28  <Sionide> i love UKRS, alas I have not the time to game currently :(
11:05:29  * Celestar is at work :/
11:05:35  <extspotter> pooh
11:05:43  <extspotter> does OTTD work on vista?
11:05:56  <Celestar> apparently.
11:06:03  <Celestar> I dunno cuz I don't touch Windows *
11:07:07  <Kloopy> I have a friend who plays it regularly in single player and multiplayer over the Internet and hasn't had a problem the game once.
11:07:19  <Kloopy> with the game*
11:07:23  <Noldo> :)
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11:14:32  <extspotter> thanks
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11:25:39  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12750 /trunk/src/news_gui.cpp: -Fix (r12749): viewport for industry new messages was not shown properly.
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11:47:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12751 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: do what has been done in r11862 in a different way so it uses less memory.
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11:59:42  <Celestar> @openttd bugs
11:59:43  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Open Bugs: 28; Not assigned: 21; Closed this week: 16; Opened this week: 13
11:59:55  <Celestar> I wondered this morning when revision 1.0.0 is released :)
11:59:59  <SmatZ> :)
12:00:02  <Celestar> and what we have in there
12:00:02  <Celestar> :)
12:00:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> you could ask Rubidium's crystal ball, but it's broken unfortunately
12:00:41  <Celestar> I have some items on a list ...
12:01:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> two years ago it was said that once OTTD is really a standalone game, it would be called 1.0
12:01:31  <Ammller> all TTDP features :-)
12:02:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> have i mentioned i hate C?
12:02:32  <Noldo> I don't remember
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12:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> i want back to python... everything was so easy...
12:03:16  <DaleStan> Eddi|zuHause3: Well, you're in luck. Open is no longer in C; now it's C++.
12:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> if only this was about OTTD :(
12:03:35  <Noldo> I'm sure the easyness comes with a price
12:03:57  <Celestar> Ammller: balanced game and realistic train stopping for example
12:04:38  <Ammller> no, more bridge heads, enhanced tunnels, rivers and progammable signals. :-)
12:05:04  <Celestar> I thought we have rivers?
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12:05:11  <Ammller> only half
12:05:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> which reminds me... stopping points on train orders [as extension of a "no stop" order]
12:05:22  <peter1138> yes, but the terrain generator doesn't make them
12:05:36  <bowman> is anyone working on that?
12:05:48  <bowman> generating rivers
12:05:48  <Celestar> bowman: working on wwhat exactly
12:05:55  <peter1138> not that i'm aware of
12:06:00  <bowman> k
12:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> there was a concept page called "lively rivers" on the wiki, but afaik no coding has been done
12:06:21  <Gekz> I wanted rivers
12:06:24  <Gekz> rivers would kick ass
12:06:54  <Noldo> Eddi|zuHause3: lively as in there is a spring and then the river just flows?
12:06:59  <bowman> its really lakes too right, all water that isn't sea level
12:07:03  <Ammller> peter1138: whats the reason you stopped dev on bridge heads?
12:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> Noldo: yes, something like that
12:07:42  <Celestar> Ammller: I continued them
12:07:59  <Ammller> oh :-)
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12:08:31  <Celestar> Ammller: ran into serious problems
12:08:59  <Celestar> Ammller: especially with signals on bridge heads
12:09:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> mainly trains stopping in front of signals, i believe
12:09:04  <Ammller> some months ago I checked out the branch last time
12:09:07  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: no ...
12:09:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, trains not stopping in front of signals ;)
12:09:28  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: had crashes with certain reverse situations. I kind of hope someone will help me there at some point (=
12:09:36  <Celestar> SmatZ: weren't you an expert there? (=
12:10:42  <SmatZ> Celestar: I am not sure if an expert :)
12:10:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> i assume the train reversing was not prepared for a lot of stuff [e.g. shorter vehicles] which then got "hacked" in
12:10:55  <SmatZ> but it should be working in 0.6.0
12:11:03  <SmatZ> even with variable length wagons
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12:11:42  <peter1138> Ammller: when i stopped, they were working
12:11:49  <peter1138> Ammller: then the new bridge system was introduced
12:12:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, Tron screwed everything up ;)
12:12:13  <Ammller> peter1138: bridges over a lot of things?
12:12:20  <Celestar> SmatZ: about the train controller and stuff?
12:12:25  <peter1138> whatever you want to call it
12:13:16  <Ammller> well, that is worth to delay bridge heads.
12:13:23  <Ammller> was
12:13:41  <SmatZ> Celestar: there shouldn't be problem with that  as long as wagons are not too short (as the newgrf spec says)
12:14:13  <SmatZ> but if you have any problematic scenario, it has to be fixed
12:14:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> but afaik Belugas was the last person to challenge bridges, i'm not sure how far he got
12:14:27  <SmatZ> problematic were trans leaving depot
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12:14:50  <peter1138> Ammller: well, cbh was done *way* before that was introduced, heh
12:14:59  <Celestar> SmatZ: there was.
12:15:03  <Celestar> SmatZ: in the cbh branch.
12:15:17  <Celestar> SmatZ: I'd like to resume it at some point, have you ever taken a look?
12:15:22  <Ammller> peter1138: then you forgot to commit it to trunk :-)
12:16:26  <Ammller> or was there a feature freeze for 0.5?
12:17:04  <Ammller> hmm, no
12:17:23  <Ammller> for 0.4.8 maybe :-)
12:17:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> 0.4.8 was a bugfix release
12:17:48  <peter1138>
12:17:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> 0.4.5 was a "new" release
12:18:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> bridge works were done parallel to 0.5.0 release, bridges were a 0.6.0 feature
12:18:57  <Ammller> oh, I played to much trunk :-)
12:19:07  <SmatZ> Celestar: there were a lot of changes since last CBH sync
12:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> was CBH ever ported to C++?
12:20:09  <Celestar> not sure
12:20:19  <Celestar> SmatZ: ok basically it's easy
12:20:46  <Celestar> SmatZ: I've taken apart MP_TUNNELBRIDGE and made an MP_TUNNEL (deal with it later), MP_STREET_BRIDGE and MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE
12:21:02  <SmatZ> yeah I saw :)
12:21:02  <peter1138> is there no space in MP_TUNNELBRIDGE? :o
12:21:06  <Celestar> SmatZ: the idea was to have identicaly layouts in MP_STREET and MP_STREET_BRIDGE and MP_RAILWAY <=> MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE
12:21:11  <peter1138> hm
12:21:13  <Celestar> peter1138: see the next statement
12:21:14  <hylje> magic bridges!
12:21:20  <Celestar> peter1138: this one reduced a LOT of special-casing
12:21:37  <Celestar> peter1138: especially in the train controllers, pathfinders and shit
12:21:45  <Celestar> peter1138: which can only work to our advantage (performance)
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12:22:11  <peter1138> hm
12:22:39  <Celestar> from my point of view, a lot of stuff in the code looked much cleaner
12:22:54  <Gekz> mess the code up!
12:22:57  <peter1138> just asking as i know SmatZ liked to keep tunnels & bridges together
12:24:08  <Celestar> in many place I just had case MP_RAILWAY: case MP_RAILWAY_BRIDGE:
12:24:10  <Celestar> and that helped
12:24:51  <peter1138> yeah
12:25:01  <peter1138> heh, people have some odd concepts of multi-core processors
12:25:11  <Noldo> on the forums?
12:25:18  <peter1138> yeah
12:25:38  <Celestar> peter1138: "odd" is not the right word methinks
12:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> didn't intel say they would release a parallelize-even-if-you-didn't-plan-to-do-so compiler?
12:26:20  <Roest> i dunno what they want to achieve, the game runs more than fine on todays processors ven without multicore support
12:26:33  <SmatZ> Celestar: you still need special handling for things like this:
12:26:35  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: that's what we've been doing since the Pentium.
12:26:51  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: instruction-level parallelism
12:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: on processor level, not on compiler level, afaik
12:27:28  <SmatZ> or that situation shouldn't happen at all :)
12:28:05  <Celestar> SmatZ: GTTS should be Z-aware
12:28:09  <peter1138> Roest: i think they want 32768x32768 maps or something incredibly stupid
12:28:15  <peter1138> s/be/become/
12:28:35  <Noldo> GTTS?
12:28:40  <peter1138> SmatZ: actually, that track piece shouldn't be allowed there
12:28:40  <Roest> i already have problems to fill 1024x1024 maps
12:28:47  <SmatZ> Celestar: so pathfinders, signal update, TrainCheckIfLineEnds() .... there is not used GTTS
12:29:00  <Celestar> SmatZ: we need to clean the code apparently (=
12:29:09  <peter1138> it's an invalid track, so we don't need to handle it
12:29:10  <hylje> gtts?
12:29:15  <peter1138> GetTileTrackStatus()
12:29:20  <SmatZ> peter1138: yes, that's the better solution
12:29:34  <hylje> peter1138: thankyou
12:29:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: but at that end there could start a new bridge
12:29:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> which would make it an allowed tile configuration
12:30:05  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: but then there wouldn't be a drop
12:30:10  <peter1138> so it wouldn't matter
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12:30:34  <SmatZ> but Belugas (I think) was talking about cliffs
12:30:56  <Roest> talking about cleaning code, i saw in the gui stuff that alot of formerly static methods became members, i know that takes alot of refactoring but why didn't you do it completely? there's still some static methods left that would fit into that category
12:31:12  <peter1138> because we do it one step at a time
12:31:14  <peter1138> not all at once
12:31:33  <SmatZ> Celestar: there is still code cleaning in progress :)
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12:32:09  <SmatZ> but source size, compilation time and binary size grows :(
12:32:21  <Celestar> yeah :(
12:32:28  <Celestar> we could go back to assembler \o/
12:32:29  <Celestar> er wait
12:32:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> --ÃŒber-optimize
12:32:37  <bowman> :)
12:32:50  <Roest> peter1138: ok, it just seemed a bit odd, since you probably have to modify so many files, why leave some out
12:33:13  <peter1138> incremental
12:33:24  <peter1138> changing files multiple times is not a problem
12:33:34  <Rubidium> Roest: sed/perl handle changing many files quite well
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12:33:52  <Roest> i stumbled over yesterday when i needed MakeWindowDirty
12:33:59  <Roest> which is still static
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12:35:12  <Rubidium> MakeWindowDirty doesn't exist
12:35:15  <Roest> the changing many files concerns me more from the point of view of a patch maintainer
12:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> you could ask the person responsible for the commit to tell you the sed/perl command being used ;)
12:36:18  <Roest> sorry SetWindowDirty
12:36:21  <peter1138> being able to follow changes in the change log concerns us more
12:37:21  <Celestar> I must have eaten summin really bad
12:37:28  <Rubidium> Roest: C++ doesn't like calling functions on NULL objects
12:37:53  <SmatZ> Celestar: :-x
12:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> damn, i loathe C
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12:38:32  <Roest> Rubidium: care to elaborate? how could this be called on a NULL object?
12:38:38  <Celestar> SmatZ: ?
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12:38:55  <Rubidium> Roest: well SetWindowDirty(NULL) is allowed
12:39:08  <Roest> does that make sense?
12:39:11  <DaleStan> ((ClassType*)NULL).ClassFunction()
12:39:16  <SmatZ> Celestar: do you feel like :-x, don't you? (after eating something really bad)
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12:39:23  <DaleStan> ((ClassType*)NULL)->ClassFunction()
12:39:36  <Celestar> SmatZ: without going too much in detail.... I generate noticable thrust when sittin on the loo
12:39:44  <SmatZ> :-D
12:39:49  <Rubidium> still, testing this == NUL is kinda strange
12:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> if (window) window->SetDirty();
12:40:24  <peter1138> when do we ever try to make a null window dirty?
12:40:34  <SmatZ> once you call a virtual function on a NULL object, you fail
12:41:00  <Rubidium> peter1138: when writing something that would go to the console when the console isn't open
12:41:20  <SmatZ> peter1138: probably it is more convenient to call SetWindowDirty(Getblabla) than "Window *w = blabla; if (w !=NULL) SetWindowDirty(w)"
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12:42:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> Rubidium: could the console be a window of size 0 instead?
12:43:12  <Rubidium> could be
12:43:19  <Rubidium> would just mean you can have one window less
12:43:24  <Rubidium> but there are more cases
12:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> i thought we have no real window limit anymore? [except the viewport limit, which is about to be "fixed", i thought]
12:44:18  <Rubidium> also when the signal density changes
12:44:29  <Rubidium> if the configure patches is open, that needs to be updated
12:44:33  <Celestar> tesing (this == NULL) is not good methinks
12:44:40  <Rubidium> and there are many places that do that
12:44:50  <SmatZ> where is Tron :)
12:45:02  <SmatZ> @seen Tron
12:45:03  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Tron was last seen in #openttd 9 weeks, 3 days, 23 hours, 21 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
12:45:07  <peter1138> you all pissed him off
12:45:12  <SmatZ> me?
12:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> but is it really that much of a problem to check wether the window is open before trying to mark it dirty?
12:46:07  <peter1138> it's easier to just not change it for the sake of changing it
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12:47:40  <HMage> ЌяЌя
12:47:43  <Roest> where's the OO guy when you need him
12:48:00  <Rubidium> SmatZ: so for *every* free we do we must check whether the variable to free is not NULL?
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12:48:12  <Rubidium> s/SmatZ/Eddi|zuHause3/
12:48:33  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: and for every realloc we must check whether the variable to realloc is not NULL?
12:48:50  <Rubidium> instead of letting free/realloc to handle it properly
12:49:25  * HMage maybe understood it improperly, but free(NULL) is a problem
12:49:35  <Noldo> no it's not
12:49:36  <Celestar> double free() is not a good idea
12:49:49  <Celestar> *nixes are very agressive towards it
12:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> Rubidium: wouldn't be necessary if you had an "InvalidWindow" object instead of a NULL-Pointer for non-open windows
12:50:39  <peter1138> free(NULL); free(NULL); is not a problem ;)
12:50:53  <Roest> free tibet!
12:51:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> which would simply do nothing on a call InvalidWindow->SetDirty()
12:51:19  <peter1138> sentinel objects? :o
12:51:28  <ln> HMage: free(NULL); is not a problem, see the C standard.
12:51:36  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause3: which means making all window functions virtual and therefor slower
12:52:12  <Rubidium> and defining *everything* twice
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12:53:05  <Rubidium> once for the invalid and once for the valid ones
12:53:32  <Celestar> hm ..
12:53:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... i never really understood the use for non-virtual functions
12:53:42  <Celestar> a double free is something completely differen than a free(NULL);
12:53:50  <Celestar> free(NULL); is perfectly allowed in C
12:54:00  <Celestar> C++ doesn't really use free anyway
12:54:04  <Rubidium> and maybe malloc should return a sentinel valid thing too so we have no null pointer dereferences anymore
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12:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> but is a check for (window==NULL) really that much slower than a switch(<polymorphic object type>) {<call virtual function>}?
12:55:28  <Celestar> peter1138: free(NULL); free(NULL); is not a problem. free(non_null_pointer); free(same_non_null_pointer); is a problem
12:55:43  <peter1138> of course :)
12:55:45  <Celestar> how much time are we spending in the window code anyway?
12:56:04  <peter1138> < hehe
12:57:45  <Celestar> ...
12:57:49  <Celestar> who coded that compiler?
12:59:42  <Roest> me, sorry my first attempts with blitzbasic
12:59:49  <Celestar> ^^
12:59:58  <Celestar> .oO(writing a C compiler in Basic)
13:00:15  <Celestar> 10 PRINT "Hello This is a C compiler written in BASIC. It doesn't work yet"
13:00:17  <Celestar> 20 GOTO 10
13:00:25  <Celestar> 30 END
13:00:40  <Roest> actually i did a deassembler in basic on a c64, like 20 years ago
13:00:48  <Celestar> c64 \o/
13:00:49  <hylje> Celestar: well writing a C compiler in C would be more silly :-)
13:00:55  <Celestar> best pooter ever
13:01:00  <Ammller> is there a support of loading a TTDP save in OTTD?
13:01:02  <Celestar> hylje: well, tell the gcc people
13:01:08  <Celestar> Ammller: mostly yes :)
13:01:14  <hylje> (hence the ":-)")
13:01:15  <Ammller> renaming to .sav
13:01:19  <Ammller> isn't enough
13:01:32  <Celestar> gcc isn't a compiler. gcc is a compiler suite
13:01:33  <Rubidium> Ammller: just putting it into the save directory and opening should work.
13:01:44  <peter1138> don't rename to .sav
13:01:44  <Rubidium> if it doesn't, then it contains rubbish that OpenTTD doesn't understand
13:01:58  <Noldo> has anyone done any profiling recently
13:02:04  <DaleStan> Renaming to .sav is likely counterproductive.
13:02:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> nobody ever did profiling
13:02:18  <Ammller> like the canset demo
13:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's all a conspiracy
13:02:22  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: wrong I did lots of profiling
13:02:44  <Noldo> Celestar: I remember that, byt it was a while back wasn't it?
13:02:47  * HMage did a google code search for safe_free. Postfix, samba, snarf, php, ettercap, bind, and so on do check for x != NULL before free(x);
13:02:53  <Ammller> openttd: /home/marcel/bin/ottd/trunk/src/station_map.h:61: StationGfx GetStationGfx(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_STATION)' failed.
13:02:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> he's part of the conspiracy as well!!
13:02:59  <Celestar> Noldo: like rev 10500 or 11000
13:03:47  <Celestar> Ammller: vanilla trunk?
13:03:58  <Rubidium> loading a TTDP game ofcourse
13:04:08  <Ammller> hmm, not sure try agian...
13:04:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'd blame peter1138 :)
13:05:05  <Ammller> Celestar: wasn't, had engine_pool in it...
13:05:17  <Ammller> try again with vanilla :-)
13:07:13  <peter1138> HMage: work arounds for broken systems. free(NULL) is defined.
13:07:40  <HMage> peter1138: I know. But it's not so hard to be a little bit more portable.
13:08:13  <peter1138> there's portable, and supporting broken shit
13:08:23  <HMage> :D
13:08:33  * HMage won't argue
13:08:50  <Noldo> Celestar: how did you do it? Do you remember any general results?
13:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, like MorphOS :p
13:08:59  <HMage> anyway, regarding double free. I didn't follow the conversation, but double free() is really a vulnerability.
13:09:57  <peter1138> glibc detects it and throws a huge error, these days
13:10:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> but the discussion wasn't about double operations, it was about checking for NULL before an operation
13:10:00  <peter1138> hard to get wrong ;)
13:11:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i despise C
13:11:18  <HMage> and I despise C++
13:11:19  <HMage> :D
13:12:10  <Roest> can anyone that has time take a look at the better graphs, i got permission from the original author, so it'd be interesting what needs to be done to get them accepted
13:12:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> they programmed around every major invention... like they used unions instead of polymorphism, and #define/#include combinations instead of templates
13:13:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> and now i've to work with that junk
13:13:19  <Ammller> Roest: ECS support, some don't like the black background
13:13:40  <Roest> yea the ECS support is on my list already
13:14:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> what has ECS to do with trunk?
13:14:20  <HMage> Eddi|zuHause3: tell me of a C coder that is braindead enough to use unions :D
13:14:24  <Ammller> well, I meant newcargo support :-)
13:14:33  <Roest> nothing but it shouldn't have some weird behavior with it either
13:15:07  <peter1138> nothing wrong with unions
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13:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> they throw char* and an enum variable around the place, and you have to switch(enum) and cast the pointer to something sensible
13:16:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> instead of using C++ and let it be handled by polymorphism
13:16:42  <Ammller> Celestar: same assert with clean trunk
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13:17:16  <Ammller> have I to handle newgrf somhow special?
13:17:30  <SmatZ> Ammller: it can be saved in a TTDP version OTTD doesn't know
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13:18:05  <Ammller> maybe I need to add the grfs first?
13:18:23  <SmatZ> TTDP savegame should contain newgrfs it uses
13:18:53  <Ammller> maybe the rivers?
13:19:09  <Ammller> no assert has something with the stations
13:19:28  <DaleStan> My guess is that Open is balking at the presence of L8 in the Patch save.
13:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammller: can you find out what is on the tile it chokes on?
13:20:07  <SmatZ> OTTD ignores most of TTDP extra chunks
13:20:18  <SmatZ> except newgrf list and ttdp version
13:20:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> like print the information on the assert line
13:22:51  <SmatZ> with debugger, you could see parameters passed
13:24:04  <Ammller> try to run with debugger
13:24:17  <Denyerec> Are cloverleaf rail junctions bad?
13:24:19  <Ammller> did that once with the server
13:24:33  <Denyerec> Cos I always seem to end up with them :S
13:26:30  <Ammller> SmatZ: how is the command for var output, in that case TileIndex?
13:26:48  <Ammller> runned with gdb
13:27:03  <SmatZ> hmm I don't remember, I use ddd
13:27:15  <Roest> Denyerec: look at the junctions in the manual, they also state the pros and cons
13:27:30  <Denyerec> The main wiki ?
13:27:52  <Roest>
13:29:01  <Ammller> I thought is print <var> :-)
13:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> my junctions always coincide with a station
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13:32:53  <Denyerec> i can't find a 2-line sideline to 4-line mainline merge/T intersection in the wiki
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13:34:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> invent one?
13:34:49  <Roest> hmm somehow my dedicated server with min_players=1 was unpaused and is now in 2098
13:34:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> be creative?
13:35:01  <Celestar> do a proper 4-line mainline
13:35:08  <Celestar> LRLR instead of LLRR :)
13:35:34  <Denyerec> Hmm. I had been stuck in LLRR thinking I think
13:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> Eichenberg station has a LLRRX entry
13:35:49  <Celestar> Eichenberg seems special
13:35:58  <Celestar> Munich central station has LRLRLRLRLR entry
13:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> but they have big problems with that, because trains from Halle to Kassel have to cross the entire station area
13:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> or drive on the left track
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13:36:41  <Denyerec> if you have LRLR mainline, then your sideline need only merge with one half of it, right?
13:37:11  <Celestar> well I'm trying to build somewhat realistic networks. There are no junctions in the middle of nowhere :)
13:37:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you merge a LRLR with a LR you end up with a LRLRLR, easy ;)
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13:37:40  <Denyerec> Depending what's on the sideline though it could overload one half of the mainline
13:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> we need doubletracks on one tile
13:41:10  <Celestar> we need to rewrite the entire game engine then Eddi|zuHause3
13:41:13  <Denyerec> am I also right in thinking that an exit singnal will indicate to an entrance signal if the exit signal is clear?
13:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> the entrance signal is red when all exit signals are red
13:42:54  <Denyerec> and the exit signals otherwise juse behave like standard signals
13:43:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
13:43:10  <Denyerec> That makes perfect sense
13:43:16  <Denyerec> however I am still wary of combo signals
13:43:29  <Denyerec> I mean why have   entry combo exit   instead of    entry standard exit
13:43:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> combo signals are used to relay the next exit signal state to the previous entrance signal
13:44:37  <Roest> get yapp and rid of that nightmare
13:44:39  <Denyerec> ah, so you can't get standard signals between the two if you want them to "connect"?
13:44:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can live without them most of the time
13:45:19  * Denyerec doesn't know what YAPP is
13:45:24  <Denyerec> I just have the standard ottd download
13:46:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> yapp is "make the signals what they are supposed to be"
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13:52:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> it allows stations to work like this:,%2012.%20Jul%201933.png
13:53:43  <peter1138> heh
13:54:03  <peter1138> and it confuses all the people who expect TTDP-style ;)
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13:54:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> we need to lead the TTDP guys into the light ;)
13:54:29  * Denyerec is confused :)
13:55:28  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: that looks like a reasonable station
13:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> thank you ;)
13:57:08  <Gekz> so
13:57:15  <Denyerec> I am certain the PBS signals must be simpler to use
13:57:17  <Gekz> do you guys destroy parts of towns to build stations?
13:57:22  <Gekz> or do you build around them??
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13:58:11  <Denyerec> Eddi, normally I have to place signals every few tiles to keep trains moving along a long section of track. What's the deal with that on the PBS signalling ?
13:58:27  <Progman> destroy parts? sometimes we destroy the whole city ;)
13:58:33  <Gekz> :o
13:58:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> Gekz: in the picture, the main station was placed way outside the cities, and the cities grew around it, the "S-Bahn" line through the cities was built destroying a lot of houses
13:59:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> the trams just couldn't handle the amount of passengers anymore
13:59:37  <Noldo> Denyerec: it won't help with that
13:59:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> and subways are not possible
13:59:47  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: how many trees did you have to build
13:59:48  <Gekz> :P
13:59:52  <Gekz> and subways would kick ass.
13:59:54  <Denyerec> so you must still place signals every 3 tiles?
14:00:15  <Noldo> yes
14:00:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> Gekz: i didn't use trees, i waited for the rating to raise because of transport service
14:00:24  <peter1138> no
14:00:36  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: how many years did that take? lol
14:00:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> Denyerec: typically, one signal per train length
14:00:41  <peter1138> that's a silly distance :o
14:00:58  <Denyerec> I read in openttdcoop they signal every 2nd tile]
14:00:58  <Gekz> also today I lost a train by flooding xD
14:01:03  <Denyerec> Sopresumably this is incorrect
14:01:05  <Gekz> peter1138: whats a good distance then lol
14:01:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> which is around the station length, i.e. 8(+1) tiles
14:01:26  <Denyerec> Roger
14:01:32  <Roest> nice station eddi
14:01:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> Denyerec: don't listen to the coop guys, they know nothing ;)
14:01:44  <Celestar> they know a bit,
14:01:44  <peter1138> Gekz: 14:52  Eddi|zuHause3> Denyerec: typically, one signal per train length
14:01:51  <Gekz> yeah
14:01:55  <Gekz> I noticed.
14:02:03  <peter1138> i do longer
14:02:17  <Roest> size does matter
14:02:29  <Gekz> Oh
14:02:36  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: what newgrf do you use for trees?
14:02:40  <Gekz> stolen trees?
14:02:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
14:02:48  <HMage> I have an offtopic question
14:02:53  <Gekz> they dont work with alpineclimate -_-
14:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> i know
14:03:05  <Gekz> it bugs me
14:03:07  <HMage> the question: do you know if shrink-wrap licenses are allowed in your country or not?
14:03:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> but this was not an alpine game
14:03:12  <Gekz> I dont like the default trees
14:03:13  <Gekz> lol
14:03:43  <Roest> i turn off trees anyway
14:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> newindustries don't work in alpine climate either [except you mean arctic climate]
14:03:59  <Gekz> no I meant alpine
14:04:03  <Gekz> arctic is nice too
14:04:11  <Gekz> I might go back to arctic
14:04:17  <Gekz> I dont like ECS very much
14:05:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> what i hate with the ECS is how it forces the "difficulty" on you
14:05:41  <Gekz> it does?
14:05:56  <Gekz> I just dont like the entire concept of it.
14:06:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, it forces you to keep rating unreasonably high, and it closes down serviced industries
14:07:52  <Gekz> :o
14:08:14  <Gekz> I dont like the graphics of them
14:08:16  <Gekz> they dont fit in
14:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is a different problem
14:08:51  <Gekz> its still a problem
14:08:58  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: do you use some kind of new industry?
14:09:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> i tried a few times... i ended up doing a passenger network always ;)
14:09:45  <Gekz> lol
14:10:00  <Gekz> you dont do anything other than passenger networks?
14:10:28  <Denyerec> I wondr if passengers care where they're going
14:10:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> Denyerec: with the passenger destinations patch, yes
14:10:48  <Denyerec> because if they do not, how do you decide to do inter-city or just inner-city networks
14:11:14  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: I guess you use paxdest?
14:11:15  <Gekz> :P
14:11:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> Gekz: no, usually i fit cargo trains between the passenger trains
14:11:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, in the game from the picture at least
14:11:53  <Gekz> what revision do you use?
14:11:59  <Gekz> must be a quite older one
14:12:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> what do you mean "old"?
14:12:38  <Gekz> about 500 revisions ago
14:12:50  <Gekz> or greater
14:12:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> that game was with gonozals patch pack r12180 or so
14:13:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> r12080?
14:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> don't remember
14:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> something with 80
14:13:19  <Gekz> yeah
14:13:32  *** Osai`off is now known as Osai
14:13:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> r12180, yes
14:13:48  <Gekz> 12751, is current
14:13:52  <Gekz> it its aged
14:14:02  <Celestar> oh man
14:14:06  <Celestar> I haven't played in a LONG time
14:14:12  <Celestar> wtf is a Conditional Order Jump
14:14:17  <Celestar> and wtf is a timetable?
14:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> there was not that much new since then, only the orders stuff
14:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> and a few YAPP updates
14:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> which would break the savegame anyway
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14:16:22  <Gekz> Celestar: I've never understood either of those things :/
14:16:26  <Gekz> so I disregard them
14:16:39  <hylje> one doesnt need to know much
14:16:55  <hylje> but there's always extra for those up for the enthusiastic
14:17:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> timetables need a synchronisation clock
14:17:29  <Roest> i don't understand timetables either, what are they good for?
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14:18:06  <Gekz> is someone planning to rewrite paxdest?
14:18:28  <hylje> Roest: reasonably synchronized traffic
14:18:38  <hylje> but indeed they could use some more sync
14:18:38  <Denyerec> must I recompile to use YAPP?
14:18:43  <Denyerec> or can I add it as a patch or such?
14:18:52  <hylje> patches are source
14:18:54  <Eddi|zuHause3>,%2014.%20Aug%201923.png <- THAT game is old ;)
14:18:58  <hylje> so you need to recompile to have them
14:19:07  <hylje> activated
14:19:34  <Denyerec> damn
14:19:40  <Roest> i have a compiled binary in the yapp thread posted, but that has copy&paste too
14:19:54  <Denyerec> I don't have the tools, experience or patience for compiling things on WIndows :(
14:20:01  <Denyerec> You have a .6 stable binary for download
14:20:02  <Denyerec> ?
14:20:07  <hylje> 1. install ubuntu 2. ??? 3. profit
14:20:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> Denyerec: there is a tool called "buildottd", which will handle that for you
14:20:30  <Denyerec> I have ubuntu on my server machine, but need Windows for work purposes.
14:20:31  <Roest>
14:20:50  <Denyerec> Until Adobe and Nikon release their suite of tools natively on Linux... I am a slave to Gates.
14:20:52  <Roest> 3rd post on that page
14:20:59  <Denyerec> thankyou Roest
14:21:04  <yorick> that's why dual boot has been invented, Denyerec
14:21:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> dual boot sucks
14:21:23  <yorick> why exactly?
14:21:30  <Celestar> dual boot is pointless, we have virtualization :)
14:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> it forces you to shut down linux, it's blasphemy!
14:21:37  <Denyerec> I have a hard enough time keeping a single-boot machine form crashing and burning :)
14:21:40  <yorick> slower
14:21:49  <yorick> windows, you mean?
14:21:49  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: lol the whole cliffedge thing!
14:21:51  <yorick> heh!
14:21:53  <Gekz> I still remember that
14:22:24  <yorick> people that have hard times keeping windows running and therefor don't want to switch to linux :')
14:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> "cliffedge"?
14:22:40  <Gekz> yes
14:22:44  <Gekz> its late
14:22:51  <Ammller> any change for that to trunk?
14:22:55  <Gekz> where the tracks are, instead of it just being on the lang
14:22:58  <Gekz> land*
14:22:58  <Ammller> c
14:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> it has old PBS!!, and snow in temperate!
14:23:16  <Gekz> erm
14:23:22  <Gekz> I still dont understand PBS
14:23:22  <Gekz> lol
14:23:28  <SmatZ> Ammller: I find that patch rather useful :-)
14:23:44  <Denyerec> I think I understand PBS, but I am not sure.
14:23:52  <Denyerec> Seems to me like you put a signal where you want a train to wait
14:23:55  <Denyerec> and they figure out the rest.
14:23:56  <Ammller> :-)
14:24:09  <Denyerec> Though I'm not sure :)
14:24:18  <Denyerec> On my RoRo stations i put exit signals on the entrance to the platform
14:24:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> that is exactly the philosophy behind it, yes ;)
14:24:27  <Denyerec> I don't know what to do with YAPP signals in this context.
14:24:54  <Vikthor> Place only the entrance signal
14:24:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> you don't place signals at the platform entrance
14:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> only at the platform exit
14:25:03  <Roest> seems to be pretty clear, you place yapp signals where you want trains to wait
14:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> and on the junction entrance
14:25:26  <Roest> and the unsure people can place one way signals even though that isnt necessary
14:25:48  <Denyerec> Um
14:25:52  <Denyerec> if you have 2 ways everywhere
14:25:53  <Roest> but then i never played with yapp yet
14:26:00  <Denyerec> won't trains, like... collide often? :)
14:26:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
14:26:17  <Roest> nope, see how these signals only have one direction?
14:26:28  <Rubidium> if you edit junctions with trains in them: yes
14:26:37  <Denyerec> You just said you "could" place one ways, whith kinda implied that the default state was a 2-way
14:26:58  <Denyerec> so the YAPP signals are 1-way only, or one-way by default...
14:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> Denyerec: the default behaviour is that trains can pass signals that do not face their way
14:27:03  <Gekz> I still dont believe I flooded a train
14:27:04  <Roest> yea you can place explicit one signals even though you dont need to
14:27:06  <Gekz> taht was retarded
14:27:12  <Denyerec> Right
14:27:23  <Denyerec> And an explicit will prevent a train from passing it outright.
14:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> but it will consider that before starting from the signal
14:27:32  <Denyerec> Wheras a normal YAPP can be passed the wrong way.
14:27:35  <Denyerec> Ok.
14:27:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> so there is no chance of a crash
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14:27:57  <Denyerec> What about forced servicing? Right now I use a backward signal on a fork to force station-approach trains to service.
14:28:00  <Denyerec> Is there some better method?
14:28:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> remove the track?
14:28:19  <Denyerec> The breakdown noise really annoys me ;)
14:28:27  <Gekz> turn breakdowns off then
14:28:29  <Gekz> >_>
14:28:33  <Denyerec> That would feel like cheating ;)
14:28:37  <Gekz> ...
14:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> trains search paths through depots, you don't need the track
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14:28:44  <Gekz> you're forcing them to be serviced
14:28:45  <Gekz> lol
14:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> also, you can use "goto depot" orders
14:29:04  <Denyerec> That's not cheating, it's just... Very safe.
14:29:04  <Denyerec> ;)
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14:29:44  <Denyerec> OK I'll go have a fight with this.
14:29:51  <Denyerec> THen I'll be back to ask about load balancing ;)
14:30:25  <Denyerec> Great work on all this by the way chaps. TTD was one of my favorites many years ago, and it's great to see it alive and kicking. So many modern games are just.... wrong somehow.
14:30:41  <Denyerec> Either too dumb or too over-graphical or just... samey.
14:32:21  <Gekz> I agree
14:32:26  <Gekz> and I'm only young >_>
14:32:40  <Gekz> the newest game I play is Baldurs Gate lol
14:34:50  <Rubidium> the newest game I play is OpenTTD... freshly compiled before playing
14:34:55  <Denyerec> As far as FPS go, I am still with Battlefield2. Beyond that, the only other thing I play is OpenTTD.
14:34:58  <Gekz> it doesnt count1
14:34:58  <Gekz> lol
14:35:02  <Celestar> hm ... anyone in US or Far east/australia here?
14:35:07  <Denyerec> Oh, and a little bit of Teeworlds ;)
14:35:14  <Gekz> Celestar: Sydney
14:35:18  <Rubidium> Celestar: not anymore
14:35:32  <Rubidium> Celestar: you should've asked one or two months ago
14:35:36  <Celestar> Gekz: could you ping and tell me the rough rtts ?
14:36:26  <Gekz> rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 337.422/340.816/360.691/5.165 ms
14:36:29  <Gekz> is that what you wanted?
14:36:37  <Celestar> yes.
14:36:38  <Celestar> thanks
14:36:53  <Rubidium> booh... Gekz threw all kinds of random stuff to a pretty 'lady' :(
14:37:01  <Celestar> ... why is THAT high
14:37:22  <Rubidium> Celestar: goes via US?
14:37:29  <Celestar> Rubidium: apparently
14:37:34  <Celestar> Gekz: could you traceroute?:)
14:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 75.342/149.448/192.173/52.607 ms, but i'm not that far away ;)
14:37:47  <Gekz> ok
14:38:03  <Gekz> i'll pastebin it
14:38:29  <Rubidium> my traceroute to goes via London, New York, Palo Alto and then to Australia
14:38:45  <Celestar> via the PARC apparently :P
14:39:15  <Gekz>
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14:39:48  * peter1138 yawns
14:39:56  <Celestar> thanks Gekz
14:40:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> i get no reverse DNS half the time
14:40:48  <Celestar> yeah :S
14:40:49  <Gekz> my eyes hurt
14:41:08  <Rubidium> Gekz: then go sleep... it's way past bedtime for you
14:41:46  <Gekz> no, I meant that traceroute
14:41:46  <Gekz> lol
14:44:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> great... from the university computer i get 30 times "* * *"
14:45:21  <Celestar> know that problem
14:45:46  <Gekz> proxy ftw
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14:46:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> why should that have anything to do with proxies?
14:47:13  <Gekz> filters the packets
14:47:15  <Gekz> and says no dice.
14:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> a) i don't think they use proxies, b) why should they filter outgoing packets?
14:48:13  <Gekz> our school does it
14:48:20  <Gekz> best way to find out is if you ping
14:48:23  <Gekz> and it says packet filtered
14:48:27  <Gekz> >_>
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14:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> school != university
14:50:17  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: actually, the government filters it in TAFE, schools and Universities
14:50:21  <Gekz> its retarded
14:50:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> what is a TAFE?
14:50:56  <Gekz> a vocational school basically
14:50:59  <SmatZ> government filters internet?
14:51:03  <SmatZ> that's bad
14:51:07  <Gekz> SmatZ: tis bad
14:51:10  <Gekz> forums are blocked
14:51:12  <Gekz> ebay is blocked
14:51:17  <Gekz> anything remotely useful is blocked
14:51:20  <glx> you are in China?
14:51:24  <Gekz> Australia mate.
14:51:36  <Gekz> welcome to the dark side of a Chinese dictator humping prime minister
14:52:27  <SmatZ> :-(
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14:53:34  <Denyerec> WTF Ebay is blocked in australia ?
14:53:40  <Denyerec> Since when did you guys become a facist state?
14:53:55  <Denyerec> My GF is Aussie and we were thinking of moving back there.... but if it's getting that bad, screw it.
14:54:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> how the hell are you supposed to be doing scientific work if you can't reach google?
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14:55:37  <Volley> Eddi: slowly, very slowly ...
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14:58:04  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3 going to the library like 10 years ago =0
14:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, right...
14:58:22  <Roest> more liek 15
14:59:20  <hylje> MOAR
15:00:20  <Gekz> Denyerec: I didnt say in Australia
15:00:28  <Gekz> Denyerec: I said at educational institutions
15:00:31  <Denyerec> Ah
15:00:35  <Denyerec> That's still pretty dire.
15:00:45  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: you can reach googe
15:00:48  <Gekz> its just filtered
15:00:53  <Gekz> it keyword searches EVERYTHING
15:01:03  <Gekz> if it finds forum, shop, email, porn, mp3, it blocks it
15:01:06  <Gekz> yes, not media files
15:01:12  <Gekz> even if its a fucking french alphabet mp3
15:01:18  <Gekz> which you needed for the test you had in 20 minutes
15:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> get an encrypted proxy in a free country
15:01:25  <Gekz> and you were nearly fucked when you had to spell your name
15:01:29  <Hagbard> Denyerec: You play Teeworlds? Who told you about that?
15:01:36  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: all ports but 80 are blocked
15:01:45  <Denyerec> Void, from #Typo3 on freenode.
15:02:30  <hylje> Gekz: http proxies, probably also https works
15:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> they block ssh? you sad person
15:02:43  <Gekz> hylje: https is 443
15:02:49  <Gekz> anything with the word proxy in it is blocked
15:02:50  *** mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:02:57  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: and ftp
15:02:59  <Hagbard> Denyerec: Ohh, he's there too. :)
15:03:03  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause3: and!
15:03:06  <Gekz> no local webservers
15:03:08  <Gekz> I was like wtf
15:03:24  <hylje> doesn't even go past your network port
15:03:30  <hylje> why would it be blocked?
15:03:36  <Gekz> hylje: its a loopback device
15:03:40  <Gekz> it has to leave and return
15:03:46  <Gekz> goes to the router, which filters it
15:03:47  <Gekz> lol
15:03:52  <Hagbard> Uhm no?
15:03:57  <Gekz> at least, on my system
15:04:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> does not ever leave the network card
15:04:14  <Hagbard> works without a network connection...
15:04:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> or even enter it
15:04:21  <Gekz> apparently, in my case, localhost and are different >_>
15:04:27  <Hagbard> Gekz: Wuut?!
15:04:31  <Gekz> seriously
15:04:40  <Gekz> is blocked if I'm on their network
15:04:43  <Gekz> while localhost is not
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15:14:43  <yorick> it refers to the same
15:14:56  <yorick> localhost is in hosts <<
15:15:10  *** planetmaker [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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15:17:12  <Volley> hmm ... what happens on IPv6? do there still numbers like exist?
15:17:25  <Gekz> ::1
15:17:28  <Gekz> = localhost
15:18:14  <Volley> ( just a silly idea, because if fails, there maybe is no IPv4 network at all ... )
15:19:08  <Noldo> localhost is just a dns name
15:19:17  <Gekz> Volley: ::1 = localhost
15:19:19  <Gekz> in ipv6
15:19:34  <blathijs> Gekz: mysql optimizes localhost to a unix socket, while is always TCP, so localhost and can be interpreted differently by programs
15:20:11  <Gekz> blathijs: ah that might be why then
15:26:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> Volley: there's a certain IPv6 prefix to encapsulate all IPv4 addresses
15:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> so IPv4 is a subspace of IPv6
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15:48:50  <HMage> ЌяЌя
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15:55:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> i always understand "MAMA"
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16:08:19  <Denyerec> hey Roest you there?
16:10:30  <Denyerec> Or anyone that has tried to use Roest's YAPP file ?
16:10:52  <Yexo> not exactly that file, but I've used yapp
16:10:58  <Denyerec> get an error saying it can't find copypaste when I try and launch
16:11:35  <Yexo> you need to download copypast.grf
16:11:47  <Denyerec> Ok.
16:11:51  * Denyerec hunts
16:12:04  <Yexo> see
16:13:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> there's also a binary that does not include copypaste
16:14:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> somewhere
16:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> meaning the yapp thread
16:14:47  <Denyerec> thankyou :D
16:15:57  <Denyerec> Now if there was an undo.grf... :D
16:16:15  <Denyerec> I am to understand, then, that the only signal type I need really with YAPP is that one electric signal.
16:16:18  <Denyerec> No more mucking around.
16:16:28  <Yexo> is a build without copypaste
16:16:46  <Yexo> yep
16:16:59  <Denyerec> Awesome.
16:17:13  <Denyerec> Out of interest is there an "Undo the last thing you did because you're a stupid clumsy fool" patch?
16:17:14  <Yexo> although you can chose to use normal one-way signals for long pieces of straight track, to improve performance
16:17:14  <Denyerec> :)
16:17:26  <Yexo> no, there isn't
16:17:27  <Denyerec> ah and just use YAPPs at junctions.
16:17:51  <Yexo> but personally I just use yapp everywhere
16:18:26  <Belugas> Denyerec, if you're using svn, it's called by the command "svn revert".  Although, i doubt it is waht you'r looking for ^_^
16:18:40  <Denyerec> hehe
16:18:48  <Denyerec> No, I often misplace statiosn and stuff
16:18:52  <Denyerec> an undo would help a great deal :D
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16:21:55  <Belugas> don't count on it in the any near or distant futur ;)  it's not  a word processing program you're running ;)
16:22:23  <Belugas> the best think, is to have autosaves as frequently as possible
16:22:29  <Belugas> yes, it will sow down the game
16:22:55  <Belugas> but at least, you'llbe able to go back to when the problematic action was not yet performed
16:25:14  *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
16:29:18  <Hagbard> Giant mushroom:
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16:35:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> how dangerous is that link?
16:35:50  <Roest> very
16:36:10  <Belugas> addictive
16:36:23  <Noldo> it's just a mushroom
16:36:25  <Yexo> Belugas: can you help me with some savegame stuff?
16:36:36  <Belugas> perhaps
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16:37:33  <Yexo> I would like to store an array of variable size in the vehicle struct. In the code I use a std::vector for that, but how would I save it in the savegame
16:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, if a random guy posts a very short link in the middle of an unrelated/idle chat, the best case is that it's a snowball game
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16:39:01  <Belugas> mmh.
16:39:49  <Noldo> how can I add compiler flags with openttd's configure?
16:40:07  <Noldo> I tried CFLAGS enviroment variable but nothing gets added
16:40:12  <glx> configure --help
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16:40:22  <Belugas> don't think we use vectors and saving them, Yexo
16:40:28  <Yexo> Can I just call SlObject multiple times in Save_VEHS if I call it the same number oftimes in Load_VEHS?
16:40:41  <Belugas> and savegame would need fix size, i believe
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16:41:09  <Maedhros> Yexo: SL_LST is used for std::lists, so you may be able to use or adapt that
16:41:32  <Belugas> i would create a new chunk, personally
16:41:42  <Belugas> hello Maedhros :)
16:41:53  <Yexo> thx, I'll have a look at SL_LST
16:41:58  <Maedhros> heya Belugas :)
16:45:16  <Noldo> ha got it
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16:46:25  <Noldo> CC and CXX worked as CC=foobar ./configure but CFLAGS didn't
16:47:25  <glx> ,...,...,...CFLAGS=* | --CFLAGS=*)        CFLAGS="$optarg";;
16:47:31  <glx> it should wokr
16:47:53  <peter1138> ./configure CFLAGS="foo" works
16:49:28  <Digitalfox> Can't wait for OpenGFX to be completed.. What is already done is amazing, the graphics look so much better than the original =0 I just miss new bridges :(
16:50:01  <peter1138> is it more than 25% done yet?
16:50:35  <Digitalfox> yes =0
16:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> what is the problem with using newbridges with opengfx?
16:51:16  <Digitalfox> 3100 sprites of 6990 =0
16:51:43  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3 they don't look good..
16:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> some of them do
16:52:32  <Digitalfox> But not all ;)
16:52:40  <peter1138> Yexo: checkout of the speclist stuff in station_cmd.cpp
16:53:10  <Digitalfox> But new bridges from thgergo looks promising :)
16:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean the cantilever replacements?
16:54:12  <Kloopy> Bridges with corners and points!
16:54:36  <Yexo> peter1138:  What I need is much simpler than that, more like vehicle->cargo in vehicle.cpp
16:54:53  <Yexo> I just converted my vector to a list because that was actually better
16:56:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> vector and list shouldn't differ much from a saving point of view
16:56:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... dot is taking ages on this tree...
16:57:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> at least i hope it's a tree
16:57:29  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3 this
16:57:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> a download link tells me nothing... get a file description
16:58:12  <Digitalfox>
16:59:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> "don't use the word 'new' in names, because it gets old very quickly"
16:59:21  <Denyerec> Is it normal to get really annoyed with the fact that the map isn't flat? :D
16:59:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, the more hilly the map the better
16:59:49  <hylje> yeah, until one gets better and wanting difficulty
16:59:51  <Belugas> no, it's not normal.  it's not REALISTIC
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17:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, we need higher pillar distances for suspension bridges
17:02:01  <hylje> and beefy pillars
17:02:09  <Belugas> the whole pillar system needs refit
17:02:12  <Belugas> or rather... expansion
17:02:25  <hylje> wide bridges!
17:02:31  <Belugas> wide?
17:02:32  <Belugas> no
17:02:35  <hylje> :(
17:03:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> you could "simulate" wide bridges by having a front half and a back half bridge
17:03:13  <Belugas> just need to put two bridges side by side ;)
17:03:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> but for that we need more bridge "slots"
17:03:54  <hylje> Belugas: yeah but to have the gfx merge neatly into one "wide" bridge
17:04:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> "merging" bridges automatically will fail as soon as you have more than 2 next to each other
17:04:48  <Belugas> mmh...
17:05:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> but yes, doubletrack bridges would be awesome
17:05:44  <hylje> Eddi|zuHause3: it'd work like original stations -- 2 stations next to each other would produce a hall structure, 3 would produce two with hall structure and one without. this was given the stations were built at once
17:05:52  <hylje> s/stations/platforms/
17:06:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> but you can't build two bridges at once
17:06:12  *** Wolf01 [] has joined #openttd
17:06:15  <hylje> at the time being :)
17:06:20  <Belugas> i wonder what would happen if tow side by side bridges would not draw back-side sprites on one and front-side sprite on the other...
17:06:23  <Wolf01> hello
17:06:45  <hylje> actually, it'd be better to require building wide bridges at once
17:06:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> the suggestion with having manually to select a front and a back bridge would make more sense and is already possible with the current system
17:07:07  <Wolf01> :O drag&drop build bridges?
17:07:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> that won't work ;)
17:07:29  <Belugas> no, that's nt what i have in mind
17:07:39  <Belugas> mmh...
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17:15:37  * Lakie gives up on
17:16:02  <Lakie> damn thing keeps saying this provider doesn't exist when its preview tools can actively use it. o_O
17:16:28  <Roest> SmatZ: argh
17:16:45  <SmatZ> what Roest?
17:17:12  <Roest> IsTileDepotType -> IsDepotTypeTile
17:17:27  <Digitalfox> Any way of using US Road set with newbridges when using the old road look?
17:17:35  <SmatZ> Roest: yeah, my work
17:17:41  * SmatZ is proud of it
17:21:44  <Maedhros> Digitalfox: i don't understand - which old road look?
17:23:08  <Digitalfox> Maedhros:
17:24:06  <hylje> Rome: Transport Tycoon
17:25:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: don't you have a  REAL  screenshot?
17:25:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> this is hurting eyes
17:25:51  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3: What's wrong with this one? It's PNG like you like ;)
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17:26:03  <Digitalfox> But i get your point :)
17:26:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> this is not about using PNG, it is about LOSSLESS!!
17:26:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> like, you missed totally the point
17:27:08  <Roest> uh what did VRF_TRAIN_STUCK change to?
17:27:15  <Denyerec> Hehe
17:27:25  <Denyerec> Digitalfox - I think they want a 1:1  lossless image
17:27:32  <Denyerec> you have resized it to make it smaller, thus losing data.
17:27:50  <Denyerec> OTTD is small enough already, you don't need to scale it down unless you want to be paying everyone's eyecare bills ;)
17:28:56  <Digitalfox> Sorry but you guys didn't get my point, the screenshot was not resized by me, it was Photobucket who did resize it automaticly because of there rules.. But here is one that photobucket doesn't resize..
17:29:53  <peter1138> their
17:30:03  <Belugas> pipelines... why not electricy transport?
17:30:06  <peter1138> if photobucket scaled it, then it's time to crop
17:30:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> use a different image hoster?!?
17:30:31  <SmatZ> Belugas: and water, gas, cable TV, telephone, internet, wireless internet, ...
17:30:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> and it is still scaled down
17:30:58  <Belugas> yeah...  it's all about transport, isn't it?  pffff...
17:31:26  <Roest> anyone? must have happened since 12703 but i cant find it
17:31:28  <Belugas> ACTIVE transport, for crying out loud!
17:31:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: anyway, the problem is, for the bridges to work with a roadset, the bridge coder must specifically add the road graphics
17:31:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> if the coder did that, it would usually be possible to set a parameter
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17:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> it would also say that in the grfs readme
17:32:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> if it doesn't, you are screwed
17:32:40  <Belugas> indeed, Eddi|zuHause3 is right
17:33:18  <Belugas> the road/rail been drawn on the bridge is part of the bridge sprites, not taken out of the normal road/rail sprites
17:33:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> the TTDP guys have their holy grail named "newroutes" to solve that poblem
17:33:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> possibly
17:33:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> noone ever actually has seen the holy grail
17:33:50  <Belugas> not TTDP guys, Oscar
17:33:54  <Belugas> only
17:34:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> right
17:34:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> whatever
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17:34:31  <peter1138> heh
17:34:31  *** planetmaker_ is now known as pm
17:34:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's like saying "needs new map array", or "duke nukem forever"
17:34:41  <Belugas> and IIRC, it does not make unanimity.
17:34:43  <Digitalfox> yeah Eddi|zuHause3 I know, but then the biggest problem appears.. Grf coders don't care about most of other set's.. But it's also true that when Newbridges set was created it was before this old look was available so I guess none has fault..:)
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17:37:24  <Fingon> is there a way to scroll in the console ?
17:37:34  <Fingon> or dump its output to some file ?
17:37:55  <glx> shift+up/down
17:38:04  <Fingon> _o_
17:38:31  <Denyerec> I was looking through the 32bbp graphics on the wiki... seems like a full set is some way off.
17:39:22  <Lakie> Oddly enough it takes quite some time to redo 11,000~ sprites
17:40:23  <Belugas> yup
17:40:34  <Belugas> and on free time, what's more..
17:40:44  <Lakie> Indeed.
17:40:59  <Denyerec> Ouch
17:40:59  * Belugas welcomes Lakie :)
17:41:01  <Denyerec> 11,000
17:41:16  <Lakie> Thanks, Belugas.
17:41:19  <Denyerec> dang.
17:41:33  <Lakie> I could find an accurate count but that should be close ish.
17:41:37  * Denyerec just wishes he could draw nice sprites :(
17:42:23  <Denyerec> Having them done by many different people risks introducing many conflicting art styles too.... perhaps the project is really feasible.
17:43:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> the opengfx guys said something about 6990
17:44:03  <Rubidium> without artic, tropic and toyland maybe
17:44:04  <Lakie> Sounds like likely upon investigation
17:44:05  <peter1138> yes, they're ignoring non-temperate
17:44:06  <Denyerec> that's still a lot of sprites.
17:44:40  <peter1138> some newgrf sets have... a lot just by themselves
17:44:50  <peter1138> i don't think i've managed to hit 64k sprites yet, though
17:45:06  <peter1138> (needs the engine pool to load millions of vehicles into the game, hehe)
17:45:46  <Lakie> 4758 + 343 + 558 + 103 + 1194 = 6956 in the source files
17:45:54  <Lakie> So I was quite a bit out
17:46:13  <Lakie> Of course those include everything such as fonts
17:46:23  <peter1138> they need doing too
17:46:29  <Lakie> Yep.
17:46:33  <peter1138> and the map-generator sprites
17:46:51  <peter1138> so opengfx maps (using the old generator) will be different too
17:47:05  <Lakie> Hehe
17:47:38  <Lakie> Would the canals, electric wires need redoing for it?
17:47:47  <Lakie> Or are they ok in 8bpp
17:47:56  <peter1138> ah, sprites 4845 to 4881
17:48:16  <peter1138> depends how they were originally created
17:48:37  <peter1138> if they're heavily based on original graphics then they need replacements
17:48:41  <Rubidium> I think they need to be 'redone' to match the style of the water tiles
17:48:44  <Lakie> Mostly by grf authors, I meant for the 32bpp project, surely they'd want everything changed?
17:48:50  <peter1138> most of pikka's work doesn't qualify :o
17:49:00  <peter1138> oh, for 32bpp... who cares ;)
17:49:04  <Lakie> canals would be Georges?
17:49:10  <Rubidium> peter1138: not me
17:49:23  * Lakie uses 8bpp
17:49:31  <Lakie> (Most grfs won't ever go to 32bpp so meh)
17:49:48  <peter1138> geektoo needs a little educatin on the ways of putting different features into different patches, also
17:49:58  <Rubidium> Lakie: grfs will never be 32bpp
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17:50:13  <Lakie> Heh, ok
17:50:42  <peter1138> they can have 32bpp graphics replacements, but it isn't directly in the grf
17:51:02  <Rubidium> they need a 8bpp grf + 32bpp graphics replacements for that grf
17:51:15  <peter1138> none of us really wants to bother hacking 32bpp support into grfcodec :)
17:51:30  <Lakie> Hehe
17:51:35  <peter1138> grfs would become massive for the very few people wanting to use 32bpp
17:51:40  <Lakie> Oh, yeah 32bpp uses tars.
17:51:44  <glx> and you can have the grf and its 32bpp graphics in a tar
17:51:50  <peter1138> well, okay, loads want to use 32bpp because 32bpp must be better than 8bpp, right?
17:51:57  <Lakie> Not really
17:52:06  <peter1138> quite
17:52:16  <Lakie> Comes down to the artist and how its been drawn in the end.
17:52:23  <Rubidium> ofcourse 32bpp means that everything will be correctly scaled and such
17:52:31  <peter1138> with smooth curves
17:52:31  <Rubidium> so airports would be way way bigger
17:52:35  <peter1138> and multiple tracks on a tile
17:52:35  <peter1138> :o
17:52:44  <peter1138> god those were stupid ideas people had
17:52:55  <Rubidium> and ofcourse ultra-long rail vehicles
17:53:04  <Lakie> How would 32bpp make all that work, it couldn't
17:53:06  <peter1138> george!
17:53:23  <peter1138> Lakie: it was the 'holy grail' for some people
17:53:23  <Rubidium> Lakie: we know that, but people do not want to understand that
17:53:26  <peter1138> just the new map array
17:53:32  <Ammller> Lakie: check the 32bpp Zoom level patch
17:53:37  <Lakie> Heh,
17:53:57  <Rubidium> oh, the "please do not reverse your trains, please please"-patch
17:54:03  <peter1138> which is crap
17:54:09  <Ammller> :-)
17:54:13  <Lakie> do not reverse your train patch?
17:54:13  <glx> they just didn't understand the 32bpp goal :)
17:54:23  <Lakie> wtf would you want to remove the ability to reverse a train
17:54:27  <peter1138> Lakie: it has a bug ;)
17:54:35  <peter1138> or two
17:54:57  <Ammller> the 32bpp branch had additional zoom levels too...
17:55:14  <Lakie> Meh
17:55:27  <Lakie> Why would you want to zoom in closer, you can't manage as much then
17:55:27  <peter1138> additional zoom levels should work across the whole thing, not just 32bpp
17:55:39  <peter1138> Lakie: people like me with crap eyesight
17:55:57  <peter1138> (i.e. just a rescaling of the original graphics would do fine)
17:56:01  <Lakie> But zooming to the point every tile is 256x128 is Bad
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17:56:15  <peter1138> Lakie... someone had the idea of 512x256 tiles once :o
17:56:20  <Lakie> You wouldn't be able to do much
17:56:24  <Lakie> Thats just stupid
17:56:30  <peter1138> that's what i said
17:56:37  <Lakie> You'd get what, 4 tiles across on your viewport
17:56:42  <glx> having extra zoom should not change the scale anyway
17:56:50  <Lakie> And thats assuming you have a very high resolution
17:56:58  <glx> it just allows for more details
17:58:33  <Lakie> Everything in the drawing routines has to be scaled.
17:58:54  <Lakie> Although assuming movement isn't altered wouldn't the trains appear jumpy?
17:59:05  <glx> but relative sizes are the same
18:00:05  <peter1138> Lakie: yes, 16 steps in a 256x128 is... a lot
18:00:27  <Lakie> Exactly, it is not as simple as just changing how something is drawn...
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18:00:40  <Lakie> To do it properly adds all sorts of complexities
18:01:02  <glx> that's the main problem :)
18:01:06  <glx> doing it properly
18:01:07  <Bjarni> hello Lakie and welcome :)
18:01:26  <Lakie> Hello Bjarni and thankyou.
18:01:28  <glx> like daylength patches
18:01:32  <Lakie> urgh
18:01:38  <Lakie> There isn't much time in a day
18:01:51  <Lakie> It just isn't practical with the current timings of openttd.
18:02:45  * Lakie is really bad at this isn't he?
18:04:12  <Lakie> Ok, sorry my negitivity, but I wouldn't even both with those patch ideas for TTD, it just doesn't seem practical in the game.
18:06:46  * Lakie goes to play some ut after killing #openttd ...
18:07:04  <Noldo> I wonder if the audience would see making some loops parallel as multi-thread support
18:08:21  <Bjarni> adding multithread support on it's own can be done... no question there
18:08:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> parallelizing loops has not much to do with threads
18:08:42  <Bjarni> the question is if you can do it without the added overhead killing the speed boost on multi core systems
18:09:23  *** Frostregen_ [] has joined #openttd
18:09:51  <Lakie> Whats paralleling loops, having the loop excute partly and then excuting the second one, and thus jumping between them, becuase I was tault that a program can only excute one stream of instructions at a time, unless its multithreaded?
18:10:15  <Denyerec> if you had a day/night cycle in OTTD, you would kill any player with epilepsy.
18:10:17  <Rubidium> same as multithreading basically
18:10:38  <Rubidium> but only for *very* short loops
18:10:51  <Rubidium> like the < 10 milliseconds type of loops
18:11:04  <Lakie> Ah,
18:11:25  <Bjarni>  <Denyerec> if you had a day/night cycle in OTTD, you would kill any player with epilepsy. <-- this is one reason not to do it. Another would be that it's a waste of resources both at execution time and when developing
18:11:46  <Denyerec> Seasonal variation would be nice, but it would require a lot of new tree sprites
18:12:03  <Lakie> I still vote its just not practical with 3 second days. >_>
18:12:03  <Rubidium> Denyerec: just create a tool that changes the brightness of your window in 2220 millisecond cycles
18:12:07  <Denyerec> hehehe :)
18:12:11  <Lakie> Seasonal could be good...
18:12:23  <Rubidium> s/window/monitor/
18:12:28  <Denyerec> We already have arctic tiles
18:12:54  <Denyerec> so you could shift land between temperate and arctic, and replace the trees with one of 4 sprite sets. Still a lot of work for no real gain.
18:13:00  <Denyerec> (Besides aesthetic)
18:13:23  <Belugas> day, temperate tiles, the next, BANG! the SNOW!!!
18:13:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12752 /trunk/src/player_gui.cpp: -Codechange: replace some magic constants in player_gui.cpp. Patch by Yexo.
18:13:28  <Denyerec> INdeed...
18:13:28  <Belugas> prrrrt!
18:13:29  <Lakie> It has no real gain other than comsometically.
18:13:32  <Denyerec> would need some kind of blend.
18:13:39  <Denyerec> And it's only cosmetic.
18:13:41  <Belugas> exact
18:13:44  * Rubidium proposes BlendTec
18:13:54  <Belugas> and that blend will be costly
18:14:03  <Denyerec> Better woudl be a patch that lets you group-upgrade trains as an order, without having to drag them one by one into a depot.
18:14:11  <Rubidium> but it will be smooth if you use the smoothy setting
18:14:15  <Belugas> and i'm not even talking about the snow line and such
18:14:53  <Belugas> callbacks all fucked up... temperate with a snow line??? ERROR ERROR!!!!
18:14:56  <Belugas> DEACTIVATE!!!
18:15:02  *** Frostregen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:15:03  *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen
18:15:06  <Rubidium> Denyerec, like: select autoreplace parameters for a group of trains, then send them all at once to the depot for servicing?
18:15:13  <Lakie> Belugas?
18:15:23  <Lakie> There are ALREADY grfs with a temperate snowline
18:15:30  <Denyerec> Rubidium - anything that makes upgrading the train engines easier.
18:15:33  <Lakie> Michael's Apline Climate for example
18:15:43  <Rubidium> Denyerec: already exists
18:15:48  <Denyerec> It does?
18:15:57  <Denyerec> omg how ?
18:15:58  <Roest> Denyerec: it's well hidden but it exists
18:16:14  <Denyerec> I found an "upgrade all trains in depot" button on the depot window that didn't seem to work,.
18:16:50  <Ammller> Lakie: Alpine is arctic set, imo
18:16:54  <Belugas> Lakie, granted, but alpine works as long as you start it in arctic, from what i remember
18:17:04  <Ammller> it replaces arctic with temperate sprites
18:17:10  <Lakie> Works ok in temperate on TTDpatch.
18:17:25  <Belugas> .. there is a snowline in temperate???
18:17:41  * Belugas needs a refresh course...
18:17:49  <Ammller> truebrain made a patch once
18:17:49  <Lakie> It can be activated.
18:17:51  <Ammller> for wwottdgd
18:18:18  *** Roest [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:18:25  <Denyerec> What about for wtfaataottdgp ?
18:18:35  <HMage> omgottdbbq
18:18:39  <Ammller> Lakie: how to activate it?
18:18:39  <Denyerec> Exactly.
18:18:46  <Rubidium> HMage: that sounds like a good idea!
18:19:05  <Denyerec> Rubidium, care to share how to do that group upgrade?
18:19:27  <Lakie> Don't remember, something to do with grfs, as far as I remember, Ammller.
18:19:35  <pm> I just run the current nightly with the new order interface. Great work!
18:19:58  <Ammller> Lakie: I guess, you have alpine in mind
18:20:04  <Lakie> Snow line height (97)
18:20:04  <Lakie> This is only active if the tempsnowline switch is on. It defaults to FF (no snow) and 38 in the temperate and arctic climates, respectively. It must be set to a multiple of 8, which is one level of height difference.
18:20:28  <Lakie> Na, I remember someone writing a test grf for it once
18:20:36  <Ammller> for TTDP
18:20:44  <Lakie> Indeed
18:20:44  <Ammller> not supported in OTTD
18:20:47  <Denyerec> or OTTDPBBQ?
18:21:00  * Denyerec apologises for being obtuse, for he is hungry and tired.
18:21:30  <Rubidium> Denyerec:
18:21:39  <Ammller> canada set has also snowline or some ECS grfs,iirc
18:22:09  *** snorre [~snorre@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:22:16  <Denyerec> thanks Rubidium
18:22:32  <Ammller> but never reached it working in OTTD.
18:22:53  <Belugas> indeed
18:23:32  <Lakie> Ok, so its not supported in OpenTTD, I was just saying it is part of the newgrf spec
18:23:35  * Lakie hides
18:23:55  <Rubidium> not supporting the NewGRF specs in it's complete form is our task
18:24:07  <Rubidium> though it seems that TTDP is starting to do that too
18:24:26  <Lakie> newAirports is a tad of a pain to code in TTDpatch
18:24:37  <Lakie> Even statically writing them in is a pain
18:24:56  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12753 /trunk/src/ (15 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: do not use IsDepotTypeTile() where simpler function can be used
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18:25:13  <Ammller> :-)
18:25:15  <Ammller>
18:25:16  <Lakie> And callback 36 var 14 doesn't work due to some unknown reason, it just neverw worked reliably.
18:25:22  <SmatZ> has onyone tried calling C functions from perl programs?
18:25:38  <HMage> I did
18:25:45  <HMage> but failed miserably
18:25:53  <HMage> cause I don't know perl that much
18:26:16  <HMage> should be easy though
18:26:19  <peter1138> god damn it
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18:26:36  <peter1138> does anyone make high quality large screens without massive resolution?
18:26:54  <SmatZ> HMage: so do I, thanks :)
18:27:15  <SmatZ> the problem it seems to be possible, but I would like an ellegant solution
18:27:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> "snow in temperate" patch even existed back in the MiniIN times
18:27:27  <peter1138> hmm, maybe turning the light on would help, he
18:27:56  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause3: is the effect the same as using Alpine climate set?
18:28:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> not entirely, the alpine set also includes snowy versions of the temperate houses
18:28:51  <Maedhros> and also stops farms above the (variable) snow-line producing anything
18:29:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> the old patch would just build arctic houses above the snow line
18:29:49  <SmatZ> I think it won't be implemented as GRF can be used for that purpose
18:30:18  <Ammller> SmatZ: there are already GRFs with that, but not supported in OTTD
18:30:25  <Ammller> like canada station set
18:30:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, just enabling the snow line would need (a little) code, everything else can be left to newgrfs
18:32:01  <SmatZ> aren't the tiles with partial snow a bit darker than normal tiles?
18:32:10  <SmatZ> it would need additional GRFs for these tiles
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18:32:36  <alexinext> to play multiplayer on OTTD and set up a game, do you need to have a server?
18:32:46  <peter1138> no
18:32:48  <Sionide> nope
18:32:58  <Ammller> SmatZ: there are already GRFs for that :-)
18:33:01  <HMage> yes
18:33:05  <SmatZ> Ammller: ok :)
18:33:17  <alexinext> thanks
18:33:24  <alexinext> my friend can't find a game I've made
18:33:30  <alexinext> can someone check if it is listed or not
18:33:37  <alexinext> because I am teaching him
18:33:40  <Sionide> alexinext, one player can host the game from their client, the other can join.. so there *is* a server, it's just done from whoever wants to host it
18:33:53  <Sionide> alexinext, have you forwarded the right ports in your router?
18:33:55  <alexinext> ok
18:34:01  <Ammller> you need that in TTDP too
18:34:16  <Sionide> you need to change a couple things for your game to be visible online
18:34:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> alexinext: look at if your game is listed
18:34:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> make sure you chose "internet (advertise)"
18:35:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> and check your firewall/router settings
18:36:31  <alexinext> for what?
18:40:04  <Zuu> that the port 3??? is open and forwarded to your computer (I've forgoten which port, but it's in your cfg-file)
18:40:59  <Ammller> @openttd ports
18:41:00  <DorpsGek> Ammller: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
18:41:27  <Rexxars> sorry, this is completely off-topic: does anyone know how much I would have to pay for a Canon EOS 400D / Digital Rebel XTi in the US? store-price, not online...
18:41:30  <alexinext> I have not got a clue what you are talking about now, its way over my head
18:42:02  <alexinext> do you need to put in add server and the ip adress before start server
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18:47:20  <Ammller> alexinext: "Start server"
18:47:38  <Ammller> (not "add server")
18:49:14  <alexinext> I have done start server, but it doesn't work
18:49:47  <alexinext> my friend can't find it on the list
18:49:53  <alexinext> it is on internet advertsie
18:50:21  <Sionide> alexinext, do you know your IP? find out your IP address he can "add server" with your IP.. assuming your router is allowing OTTD traffic through those two ports
18:50:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> alexinext: you can check yourself if you are on the list on
18:50:38  <Ammller>
18:50:38  *** dR3x4cK [] has quit [Quit: dR3x4cK]
18:50:42  <peter1138>
18:51:06  <Sionide> omg
18:51:08  <Maedhros> haha, awesome
18:51:09  <Sionide> that's hilarious
18:51:15  <Ammller> :-)
18:51:31  <alexinext> I did that
18:51:36  <Sionide> my IP has a .69 at the end ;) heheh
18:51:38  <alexinext> it says the server is offline
18:51:45  <alexinext> I did my ip address :3979
18:51:50  <alexinext>
18:52:01  <alexinext>
18:52:06  *** De_Ghosty [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:52:08  <alexinext> thats what I put in
18:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> not you, he must put that in
18:52:58  <alexinext> oh
18:52:59  <alexinext> k
18:52:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> but most likely your firewall is blocking access to your computer
18:53:07  <alexinext> do I have to turn it off
18:53:13  <alexinext> there is only 2 settings
18:53:15  <alexinext> on and off
18:53:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, you have to add a special rule to allow access on port 3979
18:53:39  <alexinext> oh
18:53:40  <alexinext> k
18:57:01  <alexinext> my friend has put in that and it says it is offline
18:57:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, because your computer is blocking the port
18:57:36  <Ammller> save your map, go to, create a server, load your save and play there...
18:57:55  * Lakie pokes Belugas, I assume the icon is currently too big? I suppose 200K is quite large.
18:58:19  <alexinext> I turned off the firewall and it still wouldnt work
18:58:28  <alexinext> its on random map
18:58:36  <Ammller> well, then its easier
18:58:47  <Ammller> just create the server and play there :-)
18:59:01  *** pavel1269 [] has quit []
18:59:16  <Lakie> Have you checked your router isn't blocking that port?
18:59:27  <alexinext> ok
18:59:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> alexinext: then you have a router, and need to forward the port
18:59:50  <Lakie> Yeah
19:00:09  *** snorre [~snorre@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:00:48  <Belugas> Lakie, wehn i checked it, yesterday evening (although i was very busy with an installation for work), i got the impression that the icon file was broken,
19:00:56  <Belugas> since i only had 2 icons on it
19:01:04  <Belugas> i was expecting way more...
19:01:12  <Belugas> or maybe i was totally wrong...
19:01:47  <Lakie> 2 icons on it?
19:01:48  <Lakie> eh?
19:02:18  <Lakie> Hmm....
19:02:23  * Lakie shall check the zip later
19:02:28  <Lakie> for now, bbl
19:02:34  <Belugas> pretty much yes.  I don't know if it was broken or if my system was broken
19:02:41  <Belugas> bye
19:03:11  *** snorre [~snorre@] has joined #openttd
19:05:03  <alexinext> I am on myottd but I cant work out how to get into my game
19:05:28  <yorick> get a client
19:05:31  <alexinext> It says it has been created
19:05:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> start your client, find the server you just created
19:05:59  <hylje>
19:07:11  <alexinext> is 0.6.0 the same as 0.6.0beta4?
19:07:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
19:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> you must have the exact same version
19:07:55  <alexinext> bugger
19:08:00  <alexinext> no option for regular 0.6.0
19:08:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> are you sure?
19:08:16  <Rubidium> hylje: could be fuller
19:08:23  <Rubidium> there is still place to put everyone in the train
19:08:37  <Rubidium> I've been in one that had to leave quite a few standing
19:08:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> it might be called "stable" or something
19:08:47  <alexinext> ok
19:09:05  <alexinext> nope
19:09:12  <alexinext> all I have listed are the nightlys
19:09:16  <Rubidium> which means that more people are pushing people into the train than just the three of for railway company guys, but a complete horde of people
19:09:19  <alexinext> 0.5.2 0.5.3 and 0.6.0 beta 4
19:10:03  <yorick>'s not updated
19:10:44  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12754 /trunk/src/ (44 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: split depot.h into depot_map.h, depot_func.h and depot_base.h and remove quite a lot of unneeded (before this) includes of depot.h.
19:12:09  <alexinext> i've done something wrong but I cant find what
19:12:38  <Ammller> oh, no 0.6 at, sorry about that and shame on you SpComp :P
19:13:19  <alexinext> anything else you can think of ammller?
19:13:21  <Ammller> !s/SpComp/SpComb/
19:13:35  <Ammller> well, you need to do it self then :-)
19:14:02  <Ammller> don't you use p2p software?
19:14:03  <alexinext> I don't know how to get the routr set up correctly
19:14:09  <alexinext> sorry for being a big pain, everyone
19:14:20  <alexinext> examples?
19:14:27  <Ammller> torrents etc.
19:14:36  <alexinext> I have, but I dont remember much
19:14:50  <Ammller> you needed portforwarding for them too
19:15:16  <alexinext> I think someone remote assistanced my computer for setting it up though
19:15:37  <Ammller> then ask him to setting up 3979 to your pc too :-)
19:15:45  <alexinext> lol
19:15:52  <alexinext> I will ask some techhys on MSN
19:16:07  <Ammller> (and 3978 for advertising)
19:17:52  *** alexinext is now known as EXTspotter
19:19:00  <ln> people. i'm back from theatre.
19:19:43  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
19:19:47  <peter1138> excellent
19:19:53  <peter1138> what play did you see?
19:21:30  *** KritiK [~Maxim@] has joined #openttd
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19:21:54  *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ
19:22:38  <ln> peter1138: a sort of interactive parody, roughly based on swedish history.
19:23:27  <Rubidium> so they all fell through the floor in the first scene?
19:23:52  <ln> peter1138: but that's of secondary importance; the important thing is that at the end of intermission, the live band played some jazz.
19:24:02  <peter1138> heh
19:24:14  *** snorre [~snorre@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24:17  <EXTspotter> did you do some jazzercise
19:24:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> sweden is the country that jumps on top whenever there is going on a gang-bang
19:24:29  <ln> peter1138: that is, the Transport Tycoon theme
19:24:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> like in the 30 years war
19:24:44  <peter1138> haha
19:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> or in the 7 years war
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19:25:15  <Belugas> hoo... jazz... for a few seconds, i though that the aband played jezz...
19:25:18  <Belugas> yurk!
19:25:27  <Prof_Frink> jezzball!
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19:32:34  <HMage> яЌяЌ
19:35:05  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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19:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't understand what dot is doing, it's already running for 2 hours on a simple file...
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19:47:58  <Rubidium> it's trying to make the file complex so they can run their leet 'only works on complex files'-algorithm
19:48:03  <EXTspotter> this is annoying because the password to get into my ISP isnt correct and I cant get in to change the settings on my router
19:48:20  <EXTspotter> so that I can set up games on OTTD
19:48:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> and svn up is not working... :(
19:48:52  <glx> admin admin doesn't work EXTspotter?
19:49:06  *** EXTspotter [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
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19:50:33  <extspotter> nope
19:50:37  <extspotter> admin admin doesnt work
19:50:48  <extspotter> nor does admin or Admin Admin or wahtever
19:51:09  <Prof_Frink> extspotter: what model?
19:51:44  <extspotter> of router?
19:51:54  <peter1138> admin password?
19:52:09  <peter1138> or just reset the config?
19:52:10  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause3: and svn up is not working... <-- fyi: it is here
19:52:22  <extspotter> I am not a techhy person
19:52:37  <extspotter> I am trying to get into my router settings
19:53:04  <extspotter> and I need to log into the router settings through the ip adress
19:53:26  <Prof_Frink> extspotter: Yes
19:53:26  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12755 /trunk/src/genworld.cpp: -Fix (r12706): aborting map generation was not properly handled
19:53:26  <Ammller> admin / 1234
19:54:27  <extspotter> Belkin F5D7633uk4A
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19:57:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not sure if that was a sensible thing to do :p
19:58:02  <extspotter> ?
19:58:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> nevermind ;)
19:59:14  <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause3: routers shouldn't be accessable from outside per default
19:59:53  <extspotter> k
19:59:57  <extspotter> Im going
19:59:58  <extspotter> bye
20:00:02  *** extspotter [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
20:03:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12756 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp station_gui.cpp): -Cleanup: variable scope and coding style in station*
20:07:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> grmbl... it tells me "svn: Konnte die Datei »src/depot_base.h« nicht hinzufÌgen: ein Objekt mit demselben Namen existiert bereits", even though i did not have any patches applied...
20:09:30  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: mikl]
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20:12:24  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
20:15:11  <Alberth> hmm, width and height of viewports shouldn't be in hex, should they?
20:15:40  <nicfer> what's better, lincity or opencity?
20:16:14  <Patrick`_> openttd
20:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> civ4 !!
20:16:31  * Eddi|zuHause3 hides ;)
20:17:32  <Ammller> is it possible to change font color for signs?
20:17:59  <Mirrakor> nicfer: depends, I'm very familiar with both
20:18:28  <Mirrakor> nicfer: I guess you're talking about lincity-ng, right?
20:18:39  <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause3: maybe you should make a "clean" revert
20:19:30  <nicfer> well, openttd is also about making grow cities, so why not play it?
20:21:16  <Mirrakor> nicfer: well, there are quite a few differences, I think you can't compare lincity-ng and opencity to openttd
20:22:36  <nicfer> simcity games are boring because you only have to lay some roads, put a electric station, some zones and you are growing
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20:23:09  <Mirrakor> openttd has a much bigger community, and works way more professional, like the commercial game, lc-ng and oc are both hobby projects, while lc-ng is a new fresh iso gui for the old lincity, Opencity is a completely new 3d game, but it's pre-pre-alpha state afaik
20:23:47  <Mirrakor> OC is more in testing state, lincity is more grown(however, they've started to break compatibility to the old lc - I'm exited to see a few changes)
20:25:03  <Mirrakor> Lincity is pretty interesting actually, since it's more realistic (although it has far less building options than sim city or openttd), you've to ways to win the game: rescue all people by increasing your tech-level, building a rocket and let them escape in that or with a sustainable econemy
20:26:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> yay, let them escape with a rocket, and then rebuild the TARDIS into a paradox-machine!!
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20:30:13  <Bjarni> hi Mwa
20:37:29  <Mwa> Hey
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20:45:29  <Mwa> Hm. I'd quite like to contribute to the project, but I've got no experience in coding games and little in C++. Would you guys happen to need a new website or something of that nature? I'm good at those.
20:46:52  <peter1138> not really... are you good at documentation? heh
20:47:52  <Mwa> I'm alright at it.
20:49:40  <Bjarni> contributions to the wiki are always welcome
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20:50:38  <Bjarni> Mwa: <-- you can read though this and maybe you can figure out how to improve the wiki page in question
20:50:49  <Bjarni> I mean you figured out how to compile the game, right?
20:51:09  <Mwa> Yeah
20:51:11  <Mwa> Ok.
20:53:38  <Bjarni> but please start by making an account in the wiki system if you haven't done so already. Remembering people by IP numbers aren't any fun :/
20:55:24  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:04:41  <peter1138> Mwa: and of course, if you don't want to do any of that, don't ;)
21:05:58  <Mwa> I'll write a terminal howto at the same time. :3
21:06:50  <Bjarni> Mwa: it was meant as thing that could improve the project without the need for great coding skills, not as a do or die thing ;)
21:07:34  <Bjarni> that tutorial... I was thinking about just linking to something but I never found anything useful
21:07:44  <Bjarni> maybe because I never searched hard for it
21:09:33  <Mwa>  Well, a quick google search turns up old stuff
21:09:44  <Mwa> The leopard terminal doesn't need that much explaining
21:10:33  <Bjarni> maybe I should visit the local mac store to actually try the Leopard terminal. I have yet to see it
21:12:52  <Mwa> Well, you just open it and away you go really. It also has the capabilities for transparency and proper colour support, and it's bell is the default system alert sound. It's also a doddle to change background and default colours and such. It's much better than tiger's.
21:13:22  <Bjarni> I don't think all the pre configure text should be on the main page since it's not valid for the newest stable release anymore
21:14:09  <Mwa> Which main page?
21:14:26  <Bjarni>
21:14:34  <Bjarni> main page on compiling on mac ;)
21:16:05  <Mwa> Preconfigure?
21:16:08  <Mwa> You've lost me, sorry.
21:16:27  <Bjarni> that's before we added configure to svn
21:16:41  <Bjarni> before that we just had a makefile that tried to figure out what people needed
21:17:05  <Bjarni> @openttd commit 7759
21:17:06  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: Commit by rubidium :: r7759 /trunk (531 files in 37 dirs) (2007-01-02 19:19:48 UTC)
21:17:07  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: -Merge: makefile rewrite. This merge features:
21:17:08  <DorpsGek> Bjarni:  - A proper ./configure, so everything needs to be configured only once, not for every make.
21:17:09  <DorpsGek> Bjarni:  - Usage of makedepend when available. This greatly reduces the time needed for generating the dependencies.
21:17:10  <DorpsGek> Bjarni:  - A generator for all project files. There is a single file with sources, which is used to generate Makefiles and the project files for MSVC.
21:17:11  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: (...)
21:17:27  <Bjarni> !openttd commit 7759
21:17:33  <Bjarni> @more
21:17:33  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: Error: You haven't asked me a command; perhaps you want to see someone else's more.  To do so, call this command with that person's nick.
21:18:03  <Bjarni> well.. how it worked before that commit... use svn log to get the full text if you like
21:18:52  <Mwa> You mean you want to remove the bit on how to compile revisions before 7759?
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21:20:06  <Bjarni> maybe it should be moved to a page telling about how to do it with old versions or something
21:20:13  <Bjarni> but do we really need that?
21:20:44  <Patrick`_> what command is run to generate the makefiles? makemake?
21:21:24  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12757 /trunk/ (23 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move all cheat related stuff from all over the place to a single location.
21:21:37  <peter1138> ./configure
21:22:19  <Mwa> I don't know. I personally will leave it there, and you can remove it if you want to. :p
21:23:17  <Bjarni> fair enough
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21:32:21  <Patrick`_> to the popemobile
21:32:29  <Patrick`_> (wrong channel)
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21:34:12  <Bjarni> Patrick`_: nice except it looks like you are only in one channel
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21:39:54  <governor> He might be on multiple networks
21:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> no! he wouldn't do that to us!!!1!
21:40:49  <governor> I'm on three others :[
21:42:54  <Rubidium> would localhost be another network too?
21:43:48  <Mwa> He could just have mode +i set
21:48:04  <Patrick`_> Bjarni: on this erver
21:48:10  <Patrick`_> :P
21:48:37  <Bjarni> then it's not the wrong channel. It's the wrong erver
21:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> sorry, wrong sub-light-data-transmission-device
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21:50:32  <Bjarni> better yet: sorry wrong computer
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21:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> i thought i said that
21:51:41  <Bjarni> didn't you say wrong physical port?
21:53:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> you might interpret this in different ways
21:54:33  <ln> you're getting way too technical, why not just yell "Bjarni!"?
21:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> mainly what you call "device"
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21:55:22  <Bjarni> my first translation of device was "router"
21:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> because some people have actually grown out of childish behaviour
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21:55:52  <Bjarni> childish behaviour?
21:56:01  <Bjarni> you mean to claim that your device is bigger than mine?
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21:57:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> something like that ;)
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21:57:44  <Bjarni> if device is a mobile phone then it would be: "my device is smaller than yours" :P
21:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... it would be null pointer dereferencing...
21:59:02  <Bjarni> you don't have one either?
22:00:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> i thought i said that
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22:10:53  <Denyerec> When I list my trains, some have green dots by them, some yellow, some grey... what;s that all abou ?
22:11:01  <Rubidium> profit
22:11:31  <Rubidium> gray is 'not old enough'
22:11:36  <Rubidium> red is negative profit
22:11:52  <Denyerec> Ah ok.
22:11:59  <Denyerec> is it relative to my other trains
22:12:06  <Denyerec> or is it absolute, based on some invisible metric?
22:12:15  <Rubidium> yellow is positive profit, but less than 10000 pounds
22:12:21  <Denyerec> ah right
22:12:23  <Denyerec> absolute.
22:12:24  <Rubidium> green is more than 10000 pounds
22:12:25  <Denyerec> Jolly good :)
22:12:42  <Denyerec> I am starting to try and build proper feed junctions now, using YAPP (Which is SO much easier!)
22:12:42  <glx> and you need green for 100% performance
22:12:56  <Rubidium> (or gray)
22:12:56  <Denyerec> Turns out ore doesn't pay so well.
22:13:24  <glx> coal is the money maker
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22:16:27  <Digitalfox> Did george implemented the switches he said would make so people could choose whether it had stockpile or not?
22:16:45  <Digitalfox> I'm referring to to ECS :)
22:17:31  <Denyerec> I wish I knew why people in the towns love living in jungles.
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22:18:42  <Digitalfox> Oh he did =0
22:19:05  <Digitalfox> "
22:19:07  <Digitalfox> // parameter is a bit switch that means:
22:19:09  <Digitalfox> // bit 0 - Unlimited storeplace
22:19:11  <Digitalfox> // bit 1 - Endless mines
22:19:13  <Digitalfox> // bit 2 - No mine closure
22:19:14  <Digitalfox> "
22:19:18  <Digitalfox> cool =0
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22:29:02  <Denyerec> Is there a shortut key for the little signal bulldozer
22:29:28  <Zuu> signal buldozer? you mean s+r?
22:29:46  <Denyerec> when you have the signal selected, you can clicka  dozer icon to remove signals.
22:29:50  <Zuu> s = select signal tool, r = remove signal.
22:29:54  <Denyerec> roger, thanks!
22:30:12  <Zuu> r works to toggle remove for tracks etc. too.
22:31:31  <Zuu> I have yet to figure out which key to use to toggle one way road though.. but it's probably somewhere in the wiki, but might be esiest to simply read the code.
22:31:45  <Rubidium> try a number
22:32:03  <Zuu> something 8-9-0 ish
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22:41:15  <Zuu> 8 it was and in road_gui.cpp
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23:01:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTD/src/station_gui.cpp:1406: warning: ‘void HandleCargoWaitingClick(Window*, int)’ defined but not used <-- where did that go?
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23:40:55  <Digitalfox> peter1138 will enginepool in the future be able to turn off the check Long Vehicles 4 and Serbian Vehicles have against each other?
23:41:33  <Digitalfox> It's the only problem I have.. :\
23:42:36  <Digitalfox> I have already 400 vehicles =0
23:45:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: that is not the scope of the patch, that is up to the grf authors
23:45:43  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:45:49  <Sacro> no Bjarni :(
23:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> Sacro: you missed him by 20 minutes
23:46:12  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3 well yeah, but this patch does what before wasn't possible and so there was this check to not occupy others ID's :)
23:46:46  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause3: that's how i like it
23:46:49  <Sacro> @seen Bjarni
23:46:50  <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 hour, 47 minutes, and 47 seconds ago: <Bjarni> you don't have one either?
23:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: but the patch cannot know what the check means, it's up to the grf authors to remove the check (depending on ottd version)
23:47:18  <Digitalfox> Eddi|zuHause3 or me ;)
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23:52:05  <glx> <Eddi|zuHause3> Digitalfox: but the patch cannot know what the check means, it's up to the grf authors to remove the check (depending on ottd version) <-- or to add something else
23:52:29  <Digitalfox> glx :)
23:52:43  <glx> like for grf extensions
23:59:12  <Digitalfox> And LV4 working =0

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