Log for #openttd on 18th April 2008:
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00:04:33  *** Ammller [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:05:03  <Denyerec> So a town hates me. And I've already turned the place into a rainforest... anything else I can do?
00:05:10  <Denyerec> They hate me so bad I can't even build a bus stop!
00:05:21  <SmatZ> clear all trees
00:05:25  <SmatZ> and replant them
00:05:29  <SmatZ> or bribe :-P
00:06:03  <Denyerec> Can't afford a bribe
00:06:08  <Denyerec> but I think I can deforest some ;)
00:07:05  <glx> killing trees can't make your rating worse :)
00:07:17  <Denyerec> It did.
00:07:22  <Denyerec> Took it from poor to appalling
00:07:29  <Denyerec> and replanting didn't raise it any either
00:07:30  <Denyerec> :S
00:10:14  *** Zahl [] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"]
00:13:30  <Digitalfox> Denyerec you have plant lot's of trees not just the same number you erased
00:13:39  <Denyerec> It's already a jungle
00:13:42  <Denyerec> literally
00:13:44  <Denyerec> there are no spare tiles
00:13:49  <Denyerec> anywhere near that godforsaken hellhole.
00:15:22  <Digitalfox> Denyerec
00:15:32  <Digitalfox> read the part Local authority rating
00:15:47  *** governor [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
00:15:51  <Sacro> Digitalfox: *lots
00:15:54  *** governor [] has joined #openttd
00:16:39  <Denyerec> Thanks fox.
00:16:40  <Digitalfox> sacro yeah.. I sure could use an English dictionary.. Oh wait Firefox already have :p
00:16:46  <Denyerec> looks like I have to save up for a bribe then :S
00:16:47  <Sacro> has
00:17:00  <Belugas> and pipelines is NOT about game mechanis!
00:17:07  <Digitalfox> sacro having a nice day?
00:17:13  <Sacro> Digitalfox: to be honest... no
00:17:38  <Digitalfox> Sacro we all have bad days :)
00:17:45  <Sacro> Digitalfox: i'm having a bad life
00:17:55  <Digitalfox> Sacro sorry to hear :\
00:18:28  <Digitalfox> But I'm sure It will get better ;)
00:19:18  <Digitalfox> Hey if we didn't have bad days how would we know what good days are?
00:20:35  <Sacro> most of my days are bad days
00:21:16  <Digitalfox> But you also have good days :)
00:21:30  <Sacro> can't say i do
00:21:47  *** Gekz [~brendan@] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]
00:21:50  <Digitalfox> Damn sacro you're really down mate :p
00:22:39  <Sacro> Digitalfox: i almost commitied suicide 2 days ago
00:22:54  <Digitalfox> Well the only thing I do when I'm down is to go out and be with family and friends, there the best medice..
00:23:01  <Digitalfox> Sorry to hear Sacro :(
00:23:19  <Sacro> i do not have family i can go see
00:25:12  <Digitalfox> Sacro I'm not a psychologist or something like that, but suicide isn't a solution for problems.. Just a way of escaping problems.. And I say this not by just saying, but because I know a friend who did it..
00:25:51  <Sacro> well i'm wanting an escape
00:27:22  <Digitalfox> Don't know what to tell you sacro, but I honestly hope you feel better and don't think on that more :)
00:28:02  <Sacro> Digitalfox: i just need people to help me
00:29:04  <Digitalfox> sacro you mean friends?
00:29:49  <Sacro> yeah
00:29:52  <Sacro> i'm lacking in friends
00:31:14  <Digitalfox> Well go out, be nice to people and you can like everybody make friends.. :)
00:31:22  <Sacro> i'm an introvert
00:31:34  <Sacro> i find it near impossible to go out and make friends
00:32:20  <SmatZ> what are friends good for?
00:36:11  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has joined #openttd
00:36:25  <Sacro> SmatZ: i dunno
00:36:32  <Digitalfox> Sacro ever thought on reading a book on how to free yourself of being introvert? Not joking there are really books that talk about this ..
00:37:00  <Digitalfox> I have a friend who did it.. Now he doesn't stop talking.. With is nice :)
00:37:08  <Sacro> Digitalfox: yes, but the thought of going to get one of these books is scary
00:37:31  <Digitalfox> Sacro get one online
00:37:37  <Sacro> Digitalfox: i have no credit card
00:37:48  <Digitalfox> well download one ;)
00:38:50  <Yexo> Digitalfox: A credit card? :)
00:39:11  <Digitalfox> Yexo P2P :p
00:39:55  <Yexo> so everyone who is online is paying part of eachothers expenses?
00:40:38  <Digitalfox> Yexo you know what I mean ;) Don't try that discussion :)
00:40:45  <Digitalfox> *start
00:41:03  <Yexo> sorry, it's too late :)
00:42:13  <Yexo> night everybody
00:42:35  <Digitalfox> bye :)
00:42:39  *** Eddi|zuHause3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:43:18  <Digitalfox> night everybody
00:43:24  <SmatZ> nn Digitalfox
00:43:26  <Sacro> night Digitalfox
00:43:47  <Digitalfox> And sacro hope your life gets better :)
00:44:06  <Sacro> Digitalfox: thanks
00:48:22  <Denyerec> How do you auto-renew things?
00:48:40  <Denyerec> I've got old busses, but as there is no "new model" I cant seem to use the replace-vehicle dialog
00:49:11  <Sacro> you can renew
00:49:13  <Sacro> just not replace
00:51:46  <Denyerec> on the "manage list" I see replace, send to depot and send for service.
00:51:49  <Denyerec> No "renew
00:51:56  * Denyerec is missing something, he can feel it
00:52:20  *** sickie88 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:52:58  <Sacro> yeah
00:53:00  <Sacro> send for service
00:53:08  <Sacro> and make sure you have autorenew in patch options
01:04:10  *** KritiK [~Maxim@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:12:11  <Denyerec> AHH THAT'S WHAT I was missing
01:12:12  <Denyerec> thanksyou!
01:12:40  <Sacro> lol
01:13:10  <Denyerec> all my bleedin oil refineries closed...
01:13:16  <Denyerec> they were being serviced by trains too.
01:21:27  *** Volley [~worf@] has quit []
01:24:27  <Sacro> night chaps
01:24:30  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:25:06  *** SmatZ [] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
01:29:37  * Lakie pokes Belugas.
01:30:09  <Belugas> aouch!
01:30:17  <Belugas> that hurts!
01:30:30  <Lakie> Heh, sorry.
01:30:34  * Lakie is checking the icon now
01:30:51  <Belugas> ;)
01:30:51  <Lakie> Got to rebuild my XP box, so its taken time to get here
01:31:12  <Belugas> np
01:31:17  <Lakie> All sizes seem in it and my logo grabber can grab all the xp valid ones from it ok
01:31:26  <Belugas> i'm still doing work@work
01:31:34  <Lakie> Oh, sorry
01:31:43  <Belugas> well.. life is life :S
01:33:34  <Lakie> Heh, I understand you have to put in the hours for the money
01:33:38  <Lakie> :|
01:35:02  <Lakie> Yep, my computer claims the icon file is fully intact
01:35:16  <Lakie> I'll try it on my xp box when... um... xp's installer finishes
01:35:29  <Belugas> but i can do both :) ottd and workj@work
01:35:41  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12758 /trunk/src/water_map.h: -Fix(r4712, r12745): Use a bool when it's about boolean evaluation. a TileIndex is hardly a bool, of course of course. Thanks for good old MSVC warnings.
01:36:02  <Belugas> yeah... my boss is demanding, but he pays well
01:36:19  <Lakie> Hehe
01:36:23  <Belugas> they are intact you said?
01:36:24  <Belugas> mmh..
01:36:27  <Lakie> I've noticed most of those warnings are gone now
01:36:36  <Lakie> You using XP?
01:36:42  <Belugas> yes
01:37:08  <Lakie> You can only see 48 (tiles), 32 normal and 16 small, correct?
01:37:10  <Belugas> most of the times, those warnings are totally brain dead
01:37:20  <Belugas> some other times, they are usefull
01:37:24  <Belugas> no
01:37:24  <Lakie> Hehe
01:37:31  <Belugas> 16 and 32
01:37:31  <Lakie> I always disliked the one which spiral
01:37:34  <Belugas> (i thik)
01:37:43  <Belugas> spiral??
01:37:51  <Lakie> Yeah, chain effect down the file
01:38:05  <Lakie> like var x is invalid, oh the rest using var x is wrong
01:38:52  <Belugas> oh... yeah
01:38:55  <Belugas> true
01:39:03  <Belugas> and it comes donw to a real stupid error...
01:39:06  <Belugas> typo or else
01:39:13  <Lakie> And one error becomes hundreds, hehe, thats normally it
01:39:25  <Lakie> or the CaSe isn't correct
01:39:46  <glx> missing } can lead to nice errors too :)
01:39:55  <Lakie> or a ; after a class
01:40:03  <Lakie> missing ;*
01:41:21  *** Digitalfox_Home [] has joined #openttd
01:41:54  *** Digitalfox [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
01:42:15  <Belugas> yeah
01:43:26  * Lakie being relatively new to C++ has had all sorts of basic errors which or stem down to learning the language, the classes one being quite frequent...
01:44:07  <Lakie> Oh dear, its not trying to format (proper format) my 250GB hard drive is it, thats going to take ages!
01:45:20  * Belugas belugas has learned c++ while doing OTTD. Lucky for him, there were some very good ... counselors (?) among the team :)
01:45:23  <Lakie> And this is why I put off reloading it for 2 months...
01:45:27  <Lakie> Hehe
01:45:34  <Lakie> Most of it I learnt from books
01:46:12  <Lakie> I learn languages quite fast though, so I became someone who helped everyone else in the class, including the guy programming for a part time job
01:46:14  <Lakie> o_O
01:46:24  <Belugas> same here.  but books cannot always answer all the questions. they can only say what they know
01:46:50  <Belugas> heheh.. nice
01:47:17  *** Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
01:48:34  <Lakie> I noticed, also with the c# book my dad got me, I keep finding 'lies'
01:48:57  <Sacro> Lakie: C# is awesome
01:49:08  <Lakie> Like C++ can't do this, but it can I've seen it and done it, or this is the same as this, but functions complettely differently.
01:49:09  <Sacro> Console.WriteLine("Hello World!");
01:49:12  <Lakie> It is quite nice.
01:49:29  <Lakie> Although that line could be in or c#
01:50:11  <Lakie> err.
01:50:16  <Lakie> Actually c# because of the ;
01:50:25  <Sacro> same bytecode
01:50:32  <Lakie> But the actual funtion is part of .net so it can be used in both
01:50:57  <Sacro> yes
01:51:02  <Belugas> or even in DElphi...
01:51:39  <Lakie> Hehe
01:51:50  * Lakie has used delicates for somethings already...
01:52:08  <Lakie> The ability to have one 'class' call several functions in one line is useful...
01:52:13  * Sacro watches some monty python
01:52:22  <Lakie> Not quite the pointer function array it was claimed to be in the book though.
01:55:37  <Lakie> Sorry, I can't actually check the icon on XP now though, Belugas.
01:55:48  <Lakie> Seems the installer decided to take the long route. :(
01:57:17  <Lakie> That and xp's installer is so slow compared to Vistas.
01:57:35  <Lakie> I could have Vista installed in just over 20 minutes on that machine.
02:02:59  <Belugas> np
02:03:15  <Belugas> i'm on the infamous pikka's quarry bug, anyway
02:03:31  <Lakie> What that it doesn't appear on the maps?
02:03:34  * Lakie noticed that...
02:04:05  <Lakie> If it helps I believe there is a function in TTDpatch which alters the terrain to allow for it to be there....
02:04:31  <Lakie> Unless I've got the wrong issue? :)
02:07:12  <Belugas> the bug is the no-appearance indeed, but i think it is realted to a bug in the callback handling
02:07:15  <Belugas> number..
02:07:46  <Belugas> CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK
02:08:20  <Belugas> pikka uses var 1ch and 60h, both seems to be returning fine,
02:08:20  <Lakie> Hmmm...
02:08:38  <Belugas> but the result smmes like been shopped off or not returned correctly
02:09:03  <Belugas> the quarry has to be placed on the flat tile in front of the slop, right?
02:09:33  <Belugas> sorr. 0C, no 1C
02:09:42  <glx> high slope
02:12:02  <Lakie> Infront of 2 slopes
02:12:08  <Lakie> well, theres 2 versions of it
02:12:20  <Lakie> flat-slope and flat-slope-slope iirc
02:13:54  * Lakie consults ttdpatch
02:18:13  <Lakie> Oddly enough I can't build it in ttdpatch
02:19:46  <Lakie> Ok
02:19:50  <Lakie> Got it, Belugas
02:19:57  <Lakie> A flat, with 3 slope tiles
02:20:05  <Lakie> Its 3x4
02:21:17  <Belugas> thanks :)_
02:21:26  <Lakie> np
02:21:43  <Lakie> 62% formatted... only taken an hour
02:21:45  * Lakie weeps
02:22:05  <glx> something happened between beta1 and beta2
02:23:01  <Belugas> and it's top left that can create it
02:23:02  <Belugas> good
02:26:14  <Lakie> Hehe
02:26:25  <Lakie> glx?
02:26:39  <glx> I was wrong
02:26:45  <glx> it still works in beta4
02:27:12  <glx> and in beta5
02:28:21  <Lakie> Oh TTDpatch?
02:28:25  <glx> RC1 fails
02:28:40  <glx> no ottd 0.6 :)
02:29:01  <Belugas> Lakie, we're useing builds to find a range of faulty revisions
02:29:23  <glx> and as I'm the win32 builder, I have all of them ready to test :)
02:30:14  <Lakie> Oh sorry.
02:30:47  <Belugas> r12751 fails
02:31:54  <Belugas> trying r12320
02:32:49  <glx> it's after r12338 :)
02:32:54  <Belugas> marche
02:33:03  <glx> 12338 == beta5
02:33:26  <Belugas> r12405
02:33:41  <Belugas> ha... of course, you're right
02:35:11  <glx> 12352 looks like a candidate
02:35:27  <glx> but I'm just reading commits
02:35:32  <Belugas> fails
02:36:07  <glx> 12358 too
02:36:23  <Belugas> trying 12350
02:36:29  <glx> @openttd commit 12358
02:36:32  <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by frosch :: r12358 /trunk/src (newgrf_industrytiles.cpp newgrf_spritegroup.cpp) (2008-03-11 12:55:41 UTC)
02:36:33  <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix: Callback 2F returns 15 bit results starting from grf version 7.
02:37:32  <Belugas> m=very good candidate indeed...
02:38:12  <glx> this 8bit/15bit stuff is nasty
02:38:35  <Belugas> r12350 works
02:38:40  <Belugas> thus...
02:40:04  *** nicfer [~chatzilla@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
02:41:26  <Belugas> r12352 fails
02:41:33  <Belugas> so it's not 12358
02:41:46  <glx> @openttd commit 12352
02:41:46  <DorpsGek> glx: Commit by frosch :: r12352 /trunk/src (3 files) (2008-03-10 15:31:07 UTC)
02:41:47  <DorpsGek> glx: -Fix: Some callback-results were treated as 8 bit, when they were 15 bit, and vice versa.
02:41:48  <DorpsGek> glx:   Var 0x7E procedure-results are always 15 bit.
02:41:49  <DorpsGek> glx:   Callbacks 0x2A, 0x2C, 0x36 (sometimes), 0x39 and 0x145 are 15 bit.
02:41:50  <DorpsGek> glx:   Non-varaction2-calculated callback-results are also affected by the 8bit masking.
02:43:23  <glx> 12358 should have been a fix for 12352
02:44:21  <Belugas> indeed
02:47:03  *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai^zZz`off
02:48:14  <Belugas> wonder why "    1.78 +		case SGT_CALLBACK: {
02:48:15  <Belugas>     1.79 +			if (!Is8BitCallback(object)) return group;"
02:48:18  <Belugas> has been added
02:48:30  <Belugas> 4th hunk front end
02:48:36  <Belugas> from
02:48:48  <Belugas> and not 4th, 3th
02:50:34  <Belugas> cause that's the only part that looks suspicious
02:51:53  <Belugas> trying with head commenting that part
02:52:59  <Lakie> Hmmm... commenting isengine causes TTDpatch to die upon loading of the title screen
02:53:07  <Lakie> Guess I was write about it being unsafe
02:53:44  <glx> added printfs to see what happens
02:56:02  <Belugas> fuck
02:56:06  <Belugas> i think i know
02:56:13  <Belugas> that is silly...
02:56:15  <Belugas> wait...
02:57:00  <glx> spritegroup stuff seems to return correct values
02:57:32  <Belugas> Important: The meaning of the returned value will change in GRF version 7; it will work the same way as callback 28. Also, since TTDPatch r1755, you can use the text reference stack for your error messages, similarly to callback 3A. The only difference is that only 4 registers are copied instead of 6; see callback 28 for details.
02:57:41  <Belugas> version 7!
02:57:47  <Belugas> pikka is on version 6
02:58:00  <Belugas> and he returns 0400
02:58:06  <glx> yes
02:58:10  <Belugas> we, simply following the rules,
02:58:22  <Belugas> are TRUNKATING the results as 8 bit
02:58:28  <Belugas> guess waht, it fails
02:58:34  <Belugas> dhu!
02:58:58  <Belugas> ho... wait...
02:59:19  <Belugas> it was never been said that version 6 are 8 bits
02:59:24  <Belugas> so...
03:00:10  <Lakie> Version 6 does support 0x8000 + x
03:00:18  <Lakie> Thats been supported for a very long time
03:00:27  <Lakie> Version 7 is since only 2.5 beta 1
03:01:28  <Belugas> indeed
03:01:54  <Belugas> so, the test that changed on was wrong
03:02:09  <Lakie> It does say however that some of the return values of features might alter between the two
03:02:11  <Lakie> o_O
03:02:48  <Lakie> How confusing
03:03:19  <Belugas> welcome to our nighmare ;)
03:03:38  <glx> so CB 2F was already a 15bit result
03:04:46  <glx> anyway PerformIndustryTileSlopeCheck() is silly :)
03:04:48  <Belugas> i think i know where the real fix was :
03:04:49  <Belugas>      1.7 -	if (object == NULL | object->procedure_call) return false;
03:04:49  <Belugas>      1.8 +	if (object == NULL || object->procedure_call) return false;
03:04:59  <Belugas> it is?
03:05:11  <glx> ,...switch (callback_res) {
03:05:11  <glx> ,..., 0x400: return true;
03:05:11  <glx> ,..., 0x401: _error_message = STR_0239_SITE_UNSUITABLE;                 return false;
03:05:11  <glx> ,..., 0x402: _error_message = STR_0317_CAN_ONLY_BE_BUILT_IN_RAINFOREST; return false;
03:05:11  <glx> ,..., 0x403: _error_message = STR_0318_CAN_ONLY_BE_BUILT_IN_DESERT;     return false;
03:05:12  <glx> ,...,...default: _error_message = GetGRFStringID(its->grf_prop.grffile->grfid, 0xD000 + callback_res); return false;
03:05:19  <glx> 8bit is always failing
03:05:33  <glx> so it seems
03:06:06  <glx> hmm wait 8bit don't go there
03:06:18  <Belugas> hein?
03:06:22  <glx> ,...if (its->grf_prop.grffile->grf_version < 7) {
03:06:23  <glx> ,...,...return (callback_res & 0xFF) != 0; // mask to 8 bit callback result
03:06:23  <glx> ,...}
03:06:29  <Belugas> yeas
03:06:31  <DaleStan> Patch does "test eax, eax" for CB2F's old format return value, and has done so since at least alpha 67. (The return value is in eax.)
03:06:40  <Belugas> that has to be reverted
03:06:44  <Lakie> Hi DaleStan
03:06:51  <DaleStan> Hello
03:06:53  * Lakie ponders why the loader crashes
03:07:00  <Belugas> therefor, it is a 15 bits since eons
03:07:41  <Lakie> I'm going to do a mrproper, something isn't write about this
03:08:03  <Lakie> right*
03:08:03  <Belugas> so, the block will be "return callback_res != 0"
03:08:10  <Belugas> mrproper?
03:08:10  <DaleStan> I have troubles (on XP) with the Windows Vista fixes; are you ending up at addresses near 000234XX?
03:08:17  <glx> no the test is right "The callback should return zero if the tile isn't suitable, or any other value if it is suitable."
03:08:31  <DaleStan> Deletes everything except Makefile.local.
03:08:38  <Lakie> unsure, DaleStan.
03:08:52  <glx> the problem is the grf :)
03:08:53  <Lakie> Its crashing whilst loading so I can only conclude something is wrong with my versiondata
03:09:13  <Lakie> Which means a complete rebuild would be best. :/
03:09:35  <DaleStan> Oh, so it's the patching code that's crashing, and not code from loader.asm?
03:09:58  <Lakie> I'm not sure, it doesn't look like patch code, and its before the main window appears.
03:10:05  <Belugas> glx, with the proposed, it works
03:10:10  * Lakie shall note the location
03:10:13  <Belugas> so, i'm scratcing my head
03:10:34  <glx> Belugas: basically a partial revert of r12358 :)
03:10:41  <Belugas> indeed
03:10:42  <DaleStan> Well, if there's accessible memory at EIP, then it's not the problem I see.
03:10:44  <Lakie> Well, eip says it is in the patch
03:10:44  <Belugas> a fix of a fix
03:10:53  * Lakie shall trace it after his rebuild
03:11:07  <Belugas> glx: not the first time tough ;)
03:11:17  <Lakie> But it wasn't were I modifed to the patch which is really odd
03:11:26  <Lakie> (Not anywhere close)
03:12:11  <Lakie> Oh and I remembered that I needed to compile renum with the -mno-cygwin flag...
03:12:35  <glx> Belugas: indeed it works :)
03:16:44  <Lakie> Belugas, just out of curiousity, your screens colour depth isn't below 32bpp is it?
03:17:44  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12759 /trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp: -Fix(r12358): There is no need to mask callback result for pre-version7 since CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK (cb2F) is really 15 bits.
03:17:51  <Lakie> Only 16x16 and 32x32 are avaliable for 24bpp it seems
03:18:04  <Belugas> 32bits in here
03:18:10  <Lakie> Hmmm... odd
03:18:40  <Lakie> I love having two drives, look in drive e:, continues to install...
03:18:58  <Lakie> It should have valid sizes upto 256 for 32bpp
03:19:04  * Lakie shall investicgate further
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03:20:14  <Lakie> DaleStan: its crashing within a proc file
03:21:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12760 /trunk/src/newgrf_spritegroup.cpp: -Fix(r12759): Remove a now useless comment
03:21:26  <DaleStan> That takes talent. Even *with* bad version data that takes talent.
03:21:44  <Lakie> Indeed
03:21:53  * Lakie wipes his version files manually
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03:22:03  <Lakie> Oddly enough
03:22:09  <Lakie> It was in the depot window code
03:22:18  <Lakie> That one we had a bug report about a day ago
03:22:34  <glx> hmm don't you have a dedicated channel ? ;)
03:22:49  <Lakie> No we don't.
03:22:51  <Lakie> Heh
03:25:34  <glx> night all
03:25:37  <Belugas> it's called #tycoon, glx, not #ttdpatch ;)
03:25:42  <Lakie> night glx
03:26:17  <Belugas> and... well... the last thing that is been talked over there is really coding... man...
03:26:19  <Belugas> lol
03:26:25  <Belugas> anyway...
03:26:33  <Belugas> night all, tiem for me tto to hit the bed
03:26:44  <DaleStan> Is coding ever talked about there? Except by patchbot?
03:26:45  <Lakie> Night Belugas.
03:26:56  <Lakie> Heh, probably not
03:27:01  <DaleStan> Good night.
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04:37:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12761 /trunk/src/ (33 files in 8 dirs): -Codechange: lots of minor whitespace coding style fixes around operators.
04:54:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12762 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Fix: tabs after the first non-tab character are generally not okay (or lines starting with a space and then tabs).
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06:06:35  <Roest> morning
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07:22:32  <SirBob> How do I use the hidden mask in ShowDropDownMenu?
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07:25:48  <peter1138> set the bits corresponding to the entries you want hidden
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07:32:44  <Roest> so lets try to get some work done today
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07:53:45  <SirBob> Ok, I'm a bit confused. If I have 11 strings and I dont want the 11th one shown, what do I type?
07:56:02  <Kloopy> You don't type, you just put the 11th string into the bin in the kitchen, that'll get rid of it!
07:56:28  <SirBob> hehe
08:00:00  <Celestar> :o
08:00:05  <Celestar> yapp's a bigass patch
08:00:15  <Kloopy> But oh so good!
08:01:22  <peter1138> it is
08:01:36  <peter1138> gah
08:02:14  <peter1138> does anyone have a spare set of eyes?
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08:02:54  <Kloopy> What're you looking for?
08:03:04  <peter1138> eyes
08:03:09  <peter1138> ;)
08:03:11  <Kloopy> Heh. You lost yours? :P
08:03:19  <peter1138> no, they're just fucking shit
08:03:24  <Kloopy> :(
08:03:26  <peter1138> i need a mark 2
08:04:06  <Kloopy> If they are getting worse you should only ever use one at a time, that way you double the life span of your "shit" eyes before they stop completely.
08:04:21  <Kloopy> I vote you start by closing your right eye for today and your left eye tomorrow./
08:05:09  <Celestar> peter1138: mark 2?
08:05:28  <Kloopy> He wants a better model pair of eyes.
08:05:54  <Celestar> peter1138: _I_ have bad eyes, not you
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08:06:45  <peter1138> orly
08:07:01  <Roest> eyes are overrated
08:08:01  <Roest> Celestar: yapp's a biggass patch << tell me about it, merging it with current trunk was a pain :/
08:12:19  <Celestar> peter1138: -7.5 diopters
08:14:56  <peter1138> :o
08:15:08  <Tefad> no idea what i have
08:15:16  <peter1138> 5 or 6 for me, and the massive astigmatism
08:15:34  <Tefad> nearsighted, can't see clearly past 30cm from face without prescription
08:17:11  <peter1138>
08:17:14  <peter1138> ^ haha
08:17:49  <Tefad> what happened there
08:20:14  <Celestar> peter1138: I had massive astigmatism about 10 years ago, now I'm back to 0 for whatever reason
08:20:22  <peter1138> nice
08:20:33  <peter1138> Tefad: overrevved or somesuch
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08:20:56  <Celestar> diopters are a stupid unit :S
08:21:00  <Tefad> ouch
08:24:27  <Celestar> why not just focal lenth :S
08:25:08  <Tefad> because it varies? *shrug*
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08:25:30  <Tefad> oh wait
08:25:35  <Tefad> it's reciprocal focal length
08:25:38  <Celestar> diopter is the reciprocal focal length
08:25:39  <Celestar> :)
08:25:45  <Tefad> yeah so, it's not that far off
08:25:52  <Tefad> quitcherbitchin
08:28:27  <Celestar> did anyone ever proofread yapp?
08:29:00  * blathijs didn't
08:29:21  <Celestar> 4900 lines :o
08:30:19  <peter1138> it was smaller when i read it
08:30:27  <peter1138> i only skimmed it really
08:30:43  <Celestar> I'll thoroughly read it over the weekend, shouldn't I?
08:31:13  <peter1138> istr hackykid's pbs was quite large too
08:32:03  <Roest> do it please
08:32:26  * Roest chants trunk trunk trunk
08:35:18  * Celestar wonders how to commit this in chunks?
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08:43:37  <Madassasin> hi
08:44:27  <peter1138> or is it assassin?
08:44:44  <peter1138> Mad ass, as in?
08:45:26  <larsemil> mad as sas in. sas being scsi
08:46:03  <Madassasin> >.<
08:46:20  <Madassasin> The missing 'S' is intended
08:46:36  <Madassasin> it's the 32nd time you start picking over it
08:46:45  <peter1138> first time for me
08:47:02  <peter1138> i'm a "picking over it" virgin
08:47:14  <larsemil> me as well
08:47:21  <Madassasin> well, actually it's the 2nd time, but whatever
08:47:22  <larsemil> i rarely say anything at all in this channel
08:47:48  <Roest> so curious...what's the intention behind the missing s?
08:48:29  <Madassasin> Madassassin was taken :P
08:48:48  <Madassasin> neah, it was a typo and I ended up sticking with it
08:48:55  <Roest> reminds me of picking gandalff int he first MUD i played
08:49:25  <larsemil> roest int he? :D :D
08:50:34  <Roest> tyops stupid, know them, love them
08:50:37  <Tefad> assassin assassout
08:50:43  <Tefad> *UNZ* *UNZ* *UNZ*
08:54:29  <Madassasin> >.<
08:56:15  <Madassasin> free(Tefad); Tefad = NULL;
08:57:16  <Bjarni> :o
08:57:22  <Bjarni> Tefad got nullified
08:57:34  <Madassasin> :)
08:58:37  <Madassasin> Gahhhh! MSVC is refusing to include the icon in the executable! ~:(
08:58:45  <Bjarni> hehe
08:58:52  <Bjarni> shit happens
08:59:10  *** Fingon2 is now known as Fingon
08:59:32  <Bjarni> this is one of the issues that I never had with the bundle stuff... that is after I figured out how it works
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08:59:57  * Madassasin wonders what the **** is wrong
08:59:57  <Bjarni> which were max 5 minutes of trial and error
09:00:26  * Madassasin based his .rc on the OTTD .rc
09:01:09  <Bjarni> Madassasin: while we usually don't kick people for foul language we do kick people for censorship :P
09:01:29  <Madassasin> ok, sure
09:01:41  <Tefad> i take it Madassasin knows of that flash animation
09:01:49  * Madassasin wonders what the heck is wrong
09:02:18  <Bjarni> besides **** could be a huge amount of words
09:02:28  <Madassasin> free(Tefad); // For some reason free'ing once doesn't work
09:02:41  <Bjarni> Madassasin wonders what the cows is wrong <-- so I decide to read the **** like this
09:03:01  <Tefad>
09:03:24  <Madassasin> String.Replace("Madassasin wonders what the **** is wrong", "****", "heck", false);
09:03:52  <peter1138> s/****/Castlemaine XXXX/
09:04:23  <Tefad> Madassasin: i was declared const
09:04:29  <Madassasin> ok...
09:04:38  <Roest> ****** ** **** *****!
09:05:05  <Bjarni> Roest: I don't want people to talk about my family like that
09:05:13  <Bjarni> please take it back
09:05:13  <Madassasin> free((void*)Tefad);
09:05:24  *** thgergo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
09:05:30  <Tefad> won't compile for me.
09:05:55  <Bjarni> what a lame flash animation
09:05:56  <Roest> Bjarni: ok,  ****** ** **** *****, except bjarnis family!
09:06:11  <peter1138> it's a flash animation, what did you expect?
09:06:12  <Madassasin> const void* Tefad = malloc(1); free((void*) Tefad);
09:06:39  <Tefad> that's just nonsense
09:06:45  <Madassasin> it's valid C
09:06:52  <Celestar> how do I display the users in irssi?
09:06:56  <Bjarni> peter1138: a bit more quality since somebody in here linked to it
09:07:28  <Madassasin> Well, anyway, anyone able to help with some .rc problems?
09:07:31  <peter1138> /names
09:08:30  <Bjarni> Madassasin: I would already have told you if I had any idea on how to solve your problem ;)
09:08:56  <Bjarni> but I have the policy not to get involved in other people's issues, specially people on the internet
09:09:04  <Roest> lol
09:09:40  <Roest> bjarni, my dog died, my girlfriend left me and i bankrupt, please help me
09:09:46  <Roest> i'm*
09:09:59  <Bjarni> ok
09:10:16  <Bjarni> Madassasin: now it's Roest's turn to get nullified
09:10:26  <Madassasin> Sure boss!
09:10:42  <Madassasin> free(Roest); Roest = NULL;
09:10:58  <Bjarni> now the problem is gone
09:10:59  <Roest> Java.lang.nullpointerexception take this
09:11:04  <Madassasin> or: delete Roest; Roest = NULL; // whichever you like
09:11:04  <Bjarni> at least for me
09:11:18  <Tefad> garbage collectors ignore me
09:11:20  <Madassasin> Java != C
09:11:29  <Tefad> i'm long life
09:11:56  <Roest> i figured java would confuse you and i'd get away
09:12:34  * HMage nullifies Bjarni
09:12:46  <Madassasin> memset(&Tefad, 0, 1); memset(&Roest, 0, 1); memset(&HMage, 0, 1);
09:12:47  <Bjarni> permission denied
09:12:59  <Madassasin> THAT should do it.
09:13:07  * HMage throws SIGSEGV at Madassasin
09:13:09  <Bjarni> free((void*)HMage);
09:13:13  <Tefad> what part of readonly do you not understand
09:13:17  * HMage throws SIGSEGV at Bjarni
09:13:28  <Madassasin> Madassasin does not handle system events.
09:13:33  <Roest> *** ***** **** you!
09:13:38  <HMage> then you'll be coredumped ;D
09:13:42  <Tefad> ** **** ********
09:13:43  <Bjarni> Roest: pervert :P
09:13:55  <peter1138> Bjarni, how's autoreplace going?
09:14:08  <Bjarni> I looked at it yesterday
09:14:21  <Bjarni> proofread something
09:14:46  <Bjarni> and figured that it needs more work. I could imagine cases where it wouldn't do as expected so it failed my quality check
09:15:09  <Roest> what's wrong with the current autoreplace?
09:15:10  <Madassasin> for (int i = 0; ; i++) {void* stuff = i; memset(stuff, 0, 1);}
09:15:28  <Bjarni> but eventually it will end up being stable and then you will be informed ;)
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09:15:41  <Roest> besides it sometimes behaves strangely
09:15:55  <Bjarni> <Roest> what's wrong with the current autoreplace? <--- minor issues like not liking some newGRF overwrites
09:16:01  <HMage> Madassasin: memsetting 0x0 is segfault-worthy :)
09:16:08  <Bjarni> and cost estimations can't handle wagon removal
09:16:23  <Madassasin> HMage: doesn't matter
09:16:35  <Bjarni> <Roest> besides it sometimes behaves strangely <-- what do you mean by that?
09:16:42  <peter1138> overrides
09:16:43  <Madassasin> mov HMage,123
09:16:51  *** HMage is now known as HMage123
09:17:04  <Madassasin> what the?!
09:17:12  <Bjarni> wow
09:17:19  <Bjarni> HMage can count
09:17:25  <Bjarni> good boy
09:17:25  <Roest> lets say i have a group of 50 trains of the same type, and i issue an autoreplace order, then sometimes trains go to the depot and come out unchanged
09:17:28  <Bjarni> big boy
09:17:44  <Madassasin> Roest: get enough cash
09:17:49  <Bjarni> Roest: did you check your cash?
09:17:59  <Roest> yea
09:18:02  <Bjarni> and your "autorenew money" setting?
09:18:05  <Roest> when is cash ever a problem?
09:18:14  <Bjarni> in the beginning
09:18:25  <Roest> hardly use autoreplace int he beginning
09:18:40  *** HMage123 is now known as HMage
09:18:53  <Roest> anyway another thing i dont like is that the replaced engine stays in the left window blacked out if there's zero of that type left
09:18:55  <Bjarni> you know... make a savegame where it happens (autosaves can be nice here) and give it to me and I will take a look
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09:19:52  <peter1138> Roest: that's a feature
09:20:08  <peter1138> by design, etc
09:20:13  <Bjarni> <Roest> anyway another thing i dont like is that the replaced engine stays in the left window blacked out if there's zero of that type left <-- I'm considering to kick it out in such a case but then it shouldn't be buildable by any player and no player should own it
09:20:40  <Bjarni> otherwise it should stay there in case say you buy an AI player then your old settings becomes active again
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09:21:13  <Bjarni> but kicking it out is of little concern compared to what else I can code so it will not happen in the near future
09:21:15  <Madassasin> say("Bye!"); exit(ID_IRC); exit(ID_COMPUTER); return 0;
09:21:18  <Roest> ah i wondered why it was kept, that's a scenario i didnt think of
09:21:28  <Madassasin> Bye!
09:21:43  <SmatZ> hello
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09:21:43  <Bjarni> hi SmatZ
09:21:49  <Roest> you renamed depot tiles again!
09:22:12  <peter1138> it's kept because the rule is still there
09:22:23  <peter1138> even if you have no vehicles of that type
09:22:55  <Roest> probably should make it hideable
09:23:05  <peter1138> you can remove it
09:23:34  <SmatZ> hello Bjarni
09:23:58  <Bjarni> removing it frees up some memory (very little) and makes looping though all the rules faster so kicking out rules that you for sure can't use anymore would be a better solution
09:24:36  <Bjarni> imagine in the future if we make good use of the 16 bit EngineIDs and we have say 5000 engines then it could be a whole lot of rules
09:25:01  <Bjarni> however I don't think this is a likely scenario
09:25:08  <Roest> more != better in some cases
09:26:02  <Bjarni> I didn't say anything about better
09:26:13  <Bjarni> I said that in the future we might be able to add more
09:26:32  <Bjarni> and then the code shouldn't act stupid if it happens
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09:27:04  <peter1138> might be able to?
09:27:13  <Roest> someone needs to rescue michael blunck from the tmnt so he can continue work on the dbset
09:27:36  <peter1138> Bjarni: < that sort of "might" ?
09:29:56  <peter1138> Roest: tmnt?
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09:30:22  <Roest> omg
09:30:28  <Roest> you dont know?
09:30:36  <Roest> google it
09:31:30  <Noldo> teenage mutant ninja turtles?
09:31:31  <HMage> tmnt == these tiny mutated ninja turtles?
09:32:37  <Roest> HMage:  that would TTMNT
09:33:10  <HMage> take "these" out of abbreviation
09:34:30  <Bjarni> peter1138: yeah... something like that ;)
09:35:07  <Roest> that's just crazy
09:37:28  <Roest> so i tried getting my gf into ottd yesterday, it failed because there was no ship refittable for tourists, damn ECS
09:38:04  <Roest> and i wasnt able to build a wellness area
09:40:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12763 /trunk/ (3 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: some headers were missing/still included in the MSVC project files.
09:41:03  <Bjarni> Roest: this isn't an issue with OpenTTD. It's an issue with gf or grf
09:43:10  <Bjarni> Roest: I'm sorry to report that it wouldn't make sense to report bugs in your gf in here :p
09:44:33  <King-J> Roset: Toyland? Thats gotta work :P
09:44:42  *** King-J is now known as KingJ
09:44:46  <Bjarni> lol
09:45:08  <Bjarni> I know for a fact that toyland was rejected by a 10 year old because it was too childish
09:45:18  <Roest> lol
09:45:33  <HMage> ДЩД
09:45:35  <HMage> LOL
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09:46:20  *** ralph_ is now known as Roest
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09:49:38  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12764 /trunk/projects/generate: -Add: check for missing (forgotten) header files in the generate script.
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10:08:40  <Roest> umm that's strange
10:11:19  *** Arie- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:11:47  <Roest> nervermind
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10:17:03  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12765 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move some stuff out of variables.h that required including other headers in variables.h.
10:18:50  <Celestar> kill variables.h \o/
10:19:26  <Rubidium> Celestar: slowly getting there (very slowly though)
10:19:44  <Celestar> yeah
10:19:53  * Celestar shudders thinking of rev1
10:20:00  <Celestar> or even the revisions way before this svn repo
10:20:14  *** Arie- [] has joined #openttd
10:20:22  <Celestar> when the old repo was LOST
10:20:51  <ln> the island
10:25:44  <Roest> wow
10:25:53  * Celestar still wonders how one can lose an entire repo
10:26:00  <Roest> i just discovered show reserved track tile in yapp ^^
10:26:10  <peter1138> disk corruption
10:26:13  <peter1138> file corruption
10:26:15  <peter1138> database corruption
10:26:18  <peter1138> stolen
10:26:21  <peter1138> fire
10:26:22  <Celestar> peter1138: the backup was lost too
10:26:25  * HMage wants to checkout svn r1 and try to compile :D
10:26:27  <peter1138> no ba...
10:26:32  <Celestar> offsite backup
10:26:39  <peter1138> then i guess something corrupted and the backup got corrupted too
10:26:43  <peter1138> but
10:26:45  <peter1138> before my time
10:26:47  <Celestar> HMage: rather go on sourceforge and download the the old sources
10:26:51  <Celestar> peter1138: not before mine :)
10:26:57  <peter1138> still: mercurial!
10:27:05  <HMage> Celestar: I just want. I won't do it -- I don't have time.
10:27:14  <peter1138> let's stop having rXXXXXs ;)
10:27:22  <Mwa> I'm doing it right now. ;)
10:28:15  <HMage> Mwa: if it runs, care to profile r1 against HEAD ? :)
10:28:29  <Mwa> HMage, if you tell me how to, sure
10:28:44  <HMage> add -pg to CFLAGS, then $ gprof openttd
10:28:50  <HMage> after running
10:28:51  <Celestar> HMage: do sense
10:28:55  <Celestar> HMage: 256x256 maps only
10:29:01  <Celestar> and many things were much much slower
10:29:15  <Celestar> many problems didn
10:29:20  <Celestar> many problems didn't show up on small maps
10:29:32  <Rubidium> HMage: too much effort for head ;)
10:29:56  <HMage> your makefiles don't support $ make CFLAGS=-pg ?
10:30:07  <Rubidium> ./configure --enable-profiling && make run-prof
10:30:13  <HMage> ah, see? :)
10:30:22  <HMage> it's even easier
10:30:28  <HMage> was that documented anywhere?
10:30:30  <Rubidium> for r1 though...
10:30:33  <Celestar> no configure in rev1 :)
10:30:36  <Celestar> just edit Makefile.config
10:30:45  <Mwa> actually
10:30:47  <Mwa> there is one
10:30:54  <Celestar> not for linux
10:31:01  <peter1138> we had a configure for ages
10:31:09  <Mwa> well, it says it checked out revision 1, and there's a configure file here
10:31:15  <Rubidium> HMage: ./configure --help && make help
10:31:22  <Celestar> Mwa: yeah, but it's for some weird-ass platform :)
10:31:40  <Celestar> peter1138: not THAT long actually
10:31:50  <peter1138> well, it was there when i started
10:31:56  <peter1138> which is long enough to matter
10:32:00  <peter1138> (there is no before me, right?)
10:32:11  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, but not the linux-worthy one
10:32:15  <Mwa> I'm on a mac. Should I just skip ./configure
10:32:21  <Celestar> Mwa: yes.
10:32:26  <Celestar> Mwa: edit Makefile.config
10:32:46  <peter1138> not the current one, but it was there and worked for me
10:33:23  <Mwa> See, I've never done this sort of thing manually before. :p
10:34:04  <Mwa> My only experience of compiling is running ./configure, make and make install/bundle
10:34:42  <Rubidium> Mwa: you don't have to do make before make install or make bundle
10:35:25  <Mwa> You don't?
10:35:35  <Celestar> got it
10:35:42  <Celestar> @openttd commit 3865
10:35:43  <DorpsGek> Celestar: Commit by truelight :: r3865 trunk/configure (2006-03-14 19:12:39 UTC)
10:35:45  <DorpsGek> Celestar: -Add: a fully optional configure script, that is a wrapper around
10:35:46  <DorpsGek> Celestar:    Makefile.config, inserting data directly into it. This is needed for the
10:35:47  <DorpsGek> Celestar:    CompileFarm (nightly) and most likely it will help out many people who want
10:35:48  <DorpsGek> Celestar:    to cross-compile. I might have missed several options out of the
10:35:49  <DorpsGek> Celestar: (...)
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10:36:10  * Celestar remembers Tron detonating on this one
10:36:37  <peter1138> hmm
10:36:46  <peter1138> misremembered then
10:36:54  <peter1138> he didn't like the new one either :)
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10:38:44  <extspotter> hey I need to find a GRF but I cant find it
10:38:49  <Celestar> grfcrawler?
10:38:52  *** extspotter [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
10:39:07  <peter1138> heh
10:39:09  <Celestar> peter1138: well, yes, he didn't care about the old one
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10:39:25  <peter1138> wrong button?
10:39:29  <extspotter> already checked
10:39:32  <extspotter> yes
10:39:49  <extspotter> industrial stations v0.98
10:39:53  <peter1138> if it's not on grfcrawler, you'll have to either search the frooms or google for it
10:40:01  <peter1138> what one is it, btw?
10:40:54  <Roest> why not use IS renewal?
10:41:08  <peter1138> oh
10:41:18  <peter1138> yeah, either use the industrial station renewal
10:41:19  <peter1138> or
10:41:27  <peter1138> follow the us station link on grfcrawler
10:41:31  <peter1138> (it's there)
10:42:06  <Gekz> what kind of bandwidth would you need for an openttd server?
10:42:22  <peter1138> masses for downloading the map
10:42:30  <peter1138> minute during the game
10:42:41  <Gekz> how big is the map usually
10:42:44  <Gekz> I never check these things
10:42:45  <extspotter> I am trying to joinsomeone's ga,e
10:42:46  <Gekz> >_>
10:42:56  <extspotter> I can't get the 3979 thing working
10:43:04  <extspotter> in order to start my own
10:45:28  <Roest> 3979 thing?
10:45:49  <Roest> in peters words, it's liek saying my email isnt working
10:47:14  <Gekz> he hasnt forwarded his ports properly
10:47:17  <Gekz> and hes asking for assistance
10:47:18  <Gekz> afaik
10:47:22  <extspotter> port forwarding?
10:48:10  <Roest> didnt you you're trying to join someones game?
10:48:24  <Roest> say*
10:48:38  <Roest> no port forwarding needed then
10:48:52  <extspotter> no
10:49:02  <extspotter> in order to make my own game
10:49:13  <extspotter> because I cant find that GRF anywhere
10:49:29  <extspotter> I've checked on forums, on google, on grf crawler
10:49:46  <peter1138> you need to log in to your router and forward ports. probably.
10:50:02  <extspotter> The password for the router doesnt work
10:50:19  <Gekz> lol.,
10:50:21  <Gekz> no
10:50:25  <Gekz> you dont have the password
10:50:27  <peter1138> well we can't help you with that :)
10:50:28  <Gekz> the password works fine
10:50:29  <Gekz> if you have it
10:50:54  <Roest> lol
10:51:03  <Roest> we can guess tho
10:51:24  <extspotter> I have the password, but it doesnt work
10:51:40  <Roest> chances are you don't have the password then
10:51:41  <extspotter> because the techhy guy who ,lives with us wrote it down
10:51:54  <Gekz> dude
10:51:56  <Gekz> then its not right
10:51:57  <Gekz> ffs.
10:52:00  <extspotter> lol
10:52:00  <Ammller> extspotter: new ISR include that one
10:52:10  <Ammller> its obsolete now
10:52:10  <extspotter> oh
10:52:12  <extspotter> thanks
10:52:16  <Roest> well as a matter of fact you have "a" password instead of "the" password
10:52:20  <peter1138> Ammller: possible he needs it to join an existing game
10:52:28  <peter1138> which ISR won't help with
10:52:39  <Gekz> Roest: its only "a" password if somewhere in the world it's used as a password
10:52:40  <Ammller> then I would have a exklusive link to it :-)
10:52:40  <Gekz> :P
10:52:43  <peter1138> Roest: or maybe it is the right password... but the wrong username :)
10:53:23  <extspotter> grf mismatch still
10:53:40  <Ammller> extspotter: which server?
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10:53:51  <Ammller> (a private one?)
10:53:54  <extspotter> no
10:53:55  <extspotter> public
10:54:28  <extspotter> !ians newstations
10:58:35  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12766 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp lang/english.txt vehicle_gui.cpp): -Add: sorting by road vehicle/train length. Based on a patch by Sir Bob.
10:58:43  <hylje> great
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11:01:46  <SirBob> Woot. My patch made it :)
11:02:12  <Roest> grats
11:02:44  <Rubidium> more like a few lines of your patch
11:02:51  <SirBob> yeah
11:03:21  <peter1138> and the idea ;)
11:03:24  <Roest> man people still play gonozals?
11:03:25  <Noldo> name in the log anyway :)
11:03:33  <SmatZ> the original patch had compilation warnings and didn't work at all :-P
11:03:33  <Rubidium> Roest: people still play MiniIN
11:03:53  <peter1138> r9896, heh
11:03:56  <Rubidium> SmatZ: warnings AND errors (for me at least)
11:04:12  <peter1138> and a 0.5.2 server
11:04:17  <Roest> i'm a tech monkey, i want to be as close to current revision as possible
11:04:30  <SirBob> hmm...worked for me. oh well
11:04:38  <peter1138> Roest: that helps for developers too
11:05:40  <Roest> SirBob: now that you patch made it in, go rewrite paxdest
11:06:09  <Rubidium> rewrite number 5?
11:07:31  <peter1138> that low?
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11:08:59  <William1333> Hi
11:09:37  <Noldo> hi
11:10:01  <William1333> Is there some body how nows how you can get new grf?
11:10:40  <Ammller>
11:10:49  <William1333> Thanks
11:11:06  <Ammller> @grfs
11:11:06  <DorpsGek> Ammller: original grf files:
11:11:07  <DorpsGek> Ammller: newgrf files:
11:11:18  <peter1138> grrr
11:11:20  <peter1138> don't do that
11:11:41  <Ammller> sorry, had forgotten :-)
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11:12:17  <Roest> **** *** *****
11:12:52  <Ammller> hmm, does "@grfs @somebody" work with that bot?
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11:21:19  <Ammller> You can save config with console command "saveconfig", but it seems, that it doesn't work, it changes the date of the cfg but the current settings and newgrfs for example aren't in.
11:36:50  <Fingon> fun with the noai :
11:36:56  <Fingon> i made it a bit too greedy :p
11:37:04  <SmatZ> :)
11:37:41  <Phantasm> Some trucks. ;P
11:40:06  <Kloopy> haha! That's awesome. And if the AI does that it must be the right way to play the game!
11:40:10  <Kloopy> Thanks for the tip. :D
11:40:51  <Fingon> xD
11:41:40  <Fingon> it's still increasing
11:42:05  <Fingon> while line is full and they're queueing to unload too
11:42:44  <peter1138> now teach it multistop
11:42:59  <Phantasm> With 216 tonnes of coal, there is no need for multistop. ;P
11:43:04  <Phantasm> Though, with more coal there is need.
11:43:21  <Phantasm> Or hmmn.. Might actually even help with only 216 tonnes of coal.
11:43:23  <Fingon> no even with 216 multistop is needed :P that's the lesson i learned now
11:43:38  <Fingon> the trucks can't load the cargo fast enough
11:43:48  <Fingon> so > 200 tons is left in the station
11:43:54  <Phantasm> For such route, I would make a train, btw.
11:43:55  <Fingon> so the AI thinks "let's add some trucks"
11:44:06  <Fingon> no trains yet in NoAI :(
11:44:11  <Phantasm> Hah.
11:44:56  <Fingon> that AI now has 216 road vehicles :') And just breaking even with running cost / profit
11:45:14  <Phantasm> ;P
11:46:56  <Tefad> holy crap
11:49:18  <Fingon> 428 vehicles now but it's going to go bankrupt soon
11:49:27  <Phantasm> ;P
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11:58:25  <Rubidium> 'lo frosch
11:59:03  <frosch123> hello rubidium
11:59:23  <Rubidium> seems your FS#1930 works
12:00:05  <frosch123> nice, fs#1935 is game over though :(
12:00:59  <Rubidium> game over in what sense?
12:01:05  <Rubidium> you've got no idea how to solve that?
12:01:19  <peter1138> bridges have been glitchy for ages
12:01:25  <frosch123> no, it is really impossible to solve. currently replying...
12:01:33  <peter1138> just more and more sprites are drawn adding to problems :o
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13:25:47  <Gekz> can the DayLength patch be server-side only?
13:25:52  <Gekz> ie, the clients dont need it?
13:26:27  <Sacro> Gekz: no
13:26:41  <Gekz> Fail/
13:27:04  <Sacro> well, not Sacro's Daylength Patch
13:27:48  <Noldo> Gekz: nothing that has to do with gamestate can be server-side only
13:28:16  <Sacro> you'd have to have the clients have their date updated by the server
13:28:52  <Gekz> I thought the clients date _was_ updated by the server
13:29:01  <Gekz> otherwise how would they stay in sync
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13:29:37  <hylje> ottd networking doesn't work that way
13:29:59  <Gekz> -_-
13:30:10  <Gekz> so what you're sayng is, the clients are not in sync at all?
13:30:22  <hylje> clients are seeded identically
13:30:34  <hylje> they run the simulation independently
13:30:57  <Sacro> simulation?
13:31:04  <Noldo> but there has to be something that prevents some client running faster than others?
13:31:05  <hylje> fancy word for the game state
13:31:56  <Noldo> Sacro: simulation doesn't imply realism
13:32:44  <hylje> i believe just frames are synced
13:34:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Roest> anyway another thing i dont like is that the replaced engine stays in the left window blacked out if there's zero of that type left <- there might not be vehicles in the GROUP left, but you can add vehicles later that come from another group that you did not want to upgrade before
13:35:04  <hylje> Roest: it stays grayed so long the replacing is active
13:35:05  <Roest> wow you did it again, you really are reading hours old irc logs
13:35:20  <hylje> Roest: it disappears when you remove the replacement order
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13:37:22  <Roest> anyway we settled that earlier and i was convinced there are reasons for this behavior
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13:52:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> i actually did that once... i did not want to upgrade all vehicles of a certain type, only some (e.g. steam->electric replacement only on the newly electrified route)
13:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> so i created a new group with the rule, and put the vehicles to upgrade in there
13:53:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> later, i electrified another route, and added another batch of vehicles, which then automatically upgraded because the rule was still active
13:56:37  <Roest> usually when i decide to upgrade to electric rails, i have so much money i upgrade the entire network
13:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never electrify the whole network
13:57:51  <Mwa> Whyever not?
13:58:08  <Sacro> cos it looks horrible
13:58:12  <Roest> lol
13:58:27  <Mwa> That's what transparency (and in the nightlies invisibility) is for
13:58:28  <Mwa> :p
13:58:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> because of the nasty "r" word
13:58:50  <Mwa> ...r word?
13:58:54  <Sacro> retard?
13:59:30  <Vikthor> realism
13:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, that one ;)
13:59:45  <Sacro> oh that one
13:59:53  <Mwa> What realism? :p
14:00:05  <hylje> er-tard
14:01:35  <Tefad> ertarded? ; )
14:01:48  <Roest> hmm realism
14:01:57  * Sacro just lost the game
14:02:21  <Gekz> lol
14:02:22  <Gekz> fail
14:02:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> the lost game? i was told it's bad
14:06:15  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
14:06:27  <Roujin> g'day
14:06:28  <Roest> is there a command to recursively bulldoze buildings of size larger than one tile?
14:06:53  <Roest> like when i invoke DoCommand(TileXY(x, y), 0, 0, flags, CMD_LANDSCAPE_CLEAR); it just clears one tile and i'd have to manually check if it belongs to somethign larger
14:06:59  <Roest> hi roujin
14:07:05  <Roujin> eh.. no?
14:07:48  <Roest> that question was just to the general public, not you :)
14:08:07  <Roujin> well, i belong to the public, so.. :P
14:08:17  <Roujin> i might as well answer :P
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14:09:02  <Roest> so procedure would be, check tile, see what on it, get all other tiles that belong to that, clear them all
14:09:38  <Roujin> wait a second..
14:10:07  <Gekz> Roujin: hai!
14:10:17  <Noldo> there is this kind of virtual function like system for different types of tiles
14:10:34  *** GoneWacko [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:10:40  <Roujin> CommandCost ClearTile_Town
14:10:50  <Roujin> in town_cmd.cpp?
14:12:32  <Roujin> void ClearTownHouse(Town *t, TileIndex tile)
14:12:40  <Roest> yea, i have it open
14:13:26  <Roujin> Gekz: nihongo wo hanashimasu ka? (yes sorry i know, english only :P)
14:13:34  <Gekz> lol
14:13:47  <Gekz> Ich bin krank.
14:13:48  <Gekz> >_>
14:13:51  <Roest> actually i need something that also destroys industries that way
14:14:09  *** Boyinblue0 [] has quit []
14:14:32  <Celestar> we finally need a ABC called Tile
14:14:39  <Roujin> then look what ClearTile_Industry in industry_cmd.cpp does...
14:15:17  <Roest> was thinking about a town authority option " buy airport space" the town would then clear a 3x4 up to 9x11 field at a random spot in the near vicinity of the town
14:15:26  <Noldo> Celestar: ABC?
14:15:36  <Celestar> abstract base class
14:17:32  <Celestar> t->clear(); and that's it
14:17:40  <hylje> OO!
14:18:31  <Roest> celestar is the OO guy in disguise
14:18:57  <hylje> let's rewrite ottd as functional!
14:19:51  <Roest> i'd say use java so all this compiling wont be necessary anymore
14:20:04  <hylje> java is compiled
14:20:12  <Celestar> in this case, an ABC would really make things simpler ...
14:20:16  <hylje> and it isn't exactly lightning fast
14:20:42  <Roest> when was the last time you explicitely compiled a java program?
14:21:04  <Roest> and about the speed issue, get a faster comp
14:21:09  <Celestar> er ..
14:21:14  <Roest> but then i wasnt serious
14:21:56  <Fingon> 16:04:09 <Roest> was thinking about a town authority option " buy airport space" the town would then clear a 3x4 up to 9x11 field at a random spot in the near vicinity of the town <-- nice! But hills might make that very difficult
14:22:45  <Fingon> as it should also flatten the terrain then, so you have 3x4 up to 9x11 buildable terrain, so the town might need to clear a bigger area to be able to flatten terrain
14:23:01  <hylje> it'd work as a flatten tool
14:23:27  <hylje> plus dynamite for a reasonable amount of relocatable buildings
14:23:38  <hylje> but being the town authority, it'd care about the environment
14:23:38  <Roest> Fingon: i had a working version, besides from the industries cut in half, slopes were a problem
14:23:40  <hylje> and not do overly expensive terraforming
14:23:46  <hylje> even if the player would pay it
14:24:15  <Roest> that option would be extremly expensive and probably limited in use
14:24:21  <Roujin> that's an interesting new town option
14:24:40  <Roujin> well i'm afk now
14:24:58  <Roujin> playing poker with two nice girls :P
14:25:07  <Roest> online?
14:25:07  <Roujin> wish it were strip poker xD
14:25:13  <Roest> :P
14:25:26  <Roujin> no, with real cards on a real table ;)
14:25:32  <Roujin> see you later
14:25:46  <peter1138> and real money?
14:25:56  <Roujin> no, they're friends ;)
14:26:57  <Roest> poker without real money = boring
14:27:21  <Fingon> nah you can still play to win
14:27:38  <Roest> don't need large sums
14:27:43  <Fingon> but money makes it more interesting, idd
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14:43:59  <sulai> hey guys
14:44:11  <sulai> I'm trying to set eclipse up compiling OTTD
14:44:29  <peter1138> have fun :D
14:44:30  <sulai> should I prefer using cygwin or mingw?
14:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> linux
14:44:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> err...
14:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> mingw, anyway
14:44:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> don't use cygwin
14:44:55  <sulai> I'm in a windows environment;)
14:45:04  <sulai> ok, so mingw is the better choice?
14:45:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
14:45:16  <sulai> okay, thanks
14:45:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> buildottd comes with a suitible mingw environment
14:45:34  <sulai> peter1138: do you have experience setting up eclipse for ottd?
14:45:46  <peter1138> none
14:46:19  <sulai> what is it about buildottd? Is is some sort of "auto-builder"?
14:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
14:47:01  <Roest> sulai: if you succeed tell me what you did, i gave up at some point, i use eclipse for editing but do make at the command line
14:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> for all the windows users who don't know how to use a compiler. it will fetch the source, and optionally apply one (!) patch file
14:48:54  <sulai> Eddi|zuHause2: sounds nice, but it's not exactly what I want to have ;)
14:49:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i mean, you can save the hassle of setting up mingw that way
14:49:27  <sulai> Roest: I will do my very best - anyway if I don't suceed, using the command line is not the worst thing to do
14:49:50  <sulai> I want to have a look at the code, too ;)
14:50:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but that is a separate issue ;)
14:50:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> "I will do my very best" <- "same procedure as last year?" :p
14:50:44  <sulai> hehe :P
14:51:18  <sulai> so what do you advice me? using "buildottd" and having a look at the code using a text editor?
14:51:29  <Roest> msvc
14:51:42  <sulai> msvc express?
14:51:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't want to distract you from the idea of using eclipse
14:52:03  <sulai> hm well... whatever works best ;)
14:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> i just wanted to say buildottd may do half the work for you
14:52:14  <Roest> on windows i'd always choose visual studio over eclipse, too bad i'm on linux now
14:53:14  <sulai> hm I like eclipse very much since I use it for java programming -- I don't know what it is like for C++ stuff
14:53:39  <Roest> it's pretty good actually, get the integrated CDT build
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14:54:50  <sulai> thats what I'm just doing =)
14:55:08  <sulai> Roest: do you like msvc better than eclipse for C++/OTTD stuff?
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14:56:52  <Roest> for C++ in general, but then i have msdnaa access so i get the full visual studio 2008 and not the express version
14:56:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> sulai: the advantage of Visual Studio is, that ottd ships with project files
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14:57:53  <peter1138> -,
14:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> pÃŒnktchen pÃŒnktchen komma strich
14:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> fertig ist das mondgesicht
14:58:23  <sulai> Eddi|zuHause2: thanks for this hint ;) -- well I think I give eclipse a chance and if it wont work I switch over to msvc
15:02:32  <Roest> another thing is, there are good svn plugins for eclipse, while there is ankh svn for visual studio which only works with registry hacks with the 2008 version
15:03:19  <sulai> yep... thats why i give ecplipse a try
15:03:38  <sulai> I don't like tortoise spread out in my context menu ;)
15:03:47  <peter1138> tortoise slows explorer a lot :o
15:03:53  <peter1138> and likes to make it crash
15:05:59  <sulai> I'll be back ;)
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15:06:32  <Roest> damn my patchpack grows, never ceases to amaze me that that all still works together
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15:12:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> the biggest issue with "patch packs" is savegame compatibility
15:12:03  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12767 /trunk/src/ (gui.h main_gui.cpp misc.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.h): -Codechange: merge all main toolbar related functions into a single file instead of scattering the functionality over several files.
15:13:57  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12768 /trunk/ (7 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: move the statusbar GUI to it's own file.
15:14:02  <Roest> yea that one wont load old ones
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15:14:23  <Roest> i usually keep a clean 0.6.0 install for savegames i download
15:14:32  <Ammller> maybe a function like compatibile_save?
15:14:55  <Ammller> removing all patch releated data and save
15:15:59  <Roest> you first have to mark data and stuff as patch related
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15:16:27  <Ammller> as patch writer, you should know, which :-)
15:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i always wonder, there is a "savegame minor version", with a big marker "do not use!"
15:17:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i could imagine it would work great for patch versions
15:17:43  <Roest> well yapp changed the savegame version, i have no clue why, but i guess he had his reasons
15:17:53  <Roujin> eddi: it was used in the past
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15:18:02  <glx> it was a sillything
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15:18:06  <Roujin> that's why it still exists, for backwards compatibility
15:18:17  <Roest> that was a quick poker game
15:18:23  <Roest> the girls naked already?
15:18:26  <Roujin> there was a savegame version like 5.2 or something
15:18:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12769 /trunk/src/ (main_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp): -Codechange: some coding style cleanups.
15:18:37  <Roest> or you?
15:18:53  <Roujin> no, i lost :P so if it WERE strip poker i'd be the naked one
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15:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean something like, trunk always use "0" minor version, and if you have a savegame altering patch, you set it to "1", so you can distinguish unchanged and changed savegames based on the same trunk version
15:19:32  * Roujin goes back to play another round
15:19:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> and in really bad cases, when your patch savegame format changes, you can set savegame minor version to "2"
15:20:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you don't have to touch the major version
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15:20:18  <Celestar> planetmaker: you there?
15:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> which will always cause headaches with updating the patch
15:20:33  <planetmaker> Celestar: I'm here
15:20:33  <peter1138>
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15:21:34  <Roujin> Eddi: nah, that won't work
15:21:49  <planetmaker> how's it doing?
15:21:50  <Celestar> planetmaker: I just have a professional question that bothered me today
15:21:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> Roujin: why not?
15:21:55  <Roujin> if trunk uses 90 and you use 90.1, then trunk increases to 91...
15:22:05  <planetmaker> uh... ask right away.
15:22:09  <Roujin> 91 > 90.1
15:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> you automatically increase to 91.1
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15:22:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> and then can do different stuff depending on wether you load 90.0 or 90.1 savegames
15:22:57  <Roujin> yes, but a bigger savegame version should always be able to load previous ones
15:23:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> in 98% of all cases, trunk savegame bumps do not influence your patch at all
15:23:08  <Celestar> planetmaker: is it me, or are we in a Carbon-rich and silicon-rich universe, YET we live on a carbon-poor and silicon-rich planet and YET the life developed on a carbon basis and not on a silicon basis?
15:23:46  <Roujin> eddi: you seem to entirely miss the point about the savegame version..
15:23:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> Roujin: trunk will never be able to load patched savegames, it is totally independent of the version
15:24:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> like trunk will only ever load .0 savegames
15:24:14  <Brianetta> peter1138: That's a hilarious video
15:24:18  <planetmaker> Celestar: afaik the chemical properties of carbon are much more versatile than those of silicon (wrt bonding "angle")
15:24:48  <planetmaker> Celestar: The chemical composition of our solar system is pretty average in every respect.
15:24:56  <planetmaker> Also that of earth
15:25:01  <Celestar> planetmaker: seems so. apparently carbon chains are much better suited than Si-chains or Si-O chains
15:25:15  <Celestar> planetmaker: shouldn't C be more common than Si?
15:26:15  <peter1138> yeha, i need a cat or two...
15:26:25  <Celestar> mice?
15:26:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's ever so funny with the astronomers, they have exactly one case, and draw conclusions about "average" ;)
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15:26:44  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: 200 billion stars in this galaxy alone are hardly "one case"
15:27:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but habitable planets... or universes?
15:27:15  <planetmaker> Celestar: not neccessarily. once you've reached carbon via fusion, it's easy to add another helium to get to oxygen. Silicon is basically two carbons fused.
15:27:36  <Celestar> ay, but 16-O is a very very stable core
15:27:40  <peter1138> no, they're just... cats
15:27:48  <Celestar> more so than 12-C and Si
15:27:48  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause2: statistics are billions as Celestar pointed out. Even other galaxies are spectroscopically available
15:28:12  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: but we only have one known habitable planet at the present time
15:28:13  <planetmaker> Celestar: but nevertheless you gain energy via fusion 2*12C->24Si(?)
15:28:15  <Celestar> will change soon
15:28:27  <Celestar> planetmaker: every fusion up to Fe gains energy :)
15:29:00  <planetmaker> Celestar: exactly. And as long as that's the case, it will happen - provided the star is heavy enough to provide the fusion temperature necessary.
15:29:28  <Digitalfox> The open Executable is growing a lot :p
15:29:40  <Celestar> unless it goes Nova or Supernova before :)
15:29:42  <Celestar> Digitalfox: ?
15:29:57  <Digitalfox> Celestar Well it use to have 2MB now 4MB
15:30:33  <Digitalfox> Not that it's a bad thing..
15:30:43  <Yexo> Digitalfox: that depends on debuging options, mine is currently 43MB :P
15:31:10  <Digitalfox> Yexo not bad ;)
15:31:11  <planetmaker> Celestar: as long as there ARE elements available for fusion a supernova won't happen.
15:31:45  <Digitalfox> but Yexo you have all debug options activated?
15:31:46  <planetmaker> a nova is something entirely different... though also at the end of a star's life
15:32:00  <Yexo> I think so
15:32:10  <Celestar> planetmaker: but the Supernova happens for you have a ball of iron, right?
15:32:14  <Yexo> configured  with --enable-debug=3
15:32:49  <Digitalfox> open is running pretty slow then Yexo, right?
15:32:57  <planetmaker> Celestar: basically yes: you have an iron core and reach an equilibrium between fission and fusion --> no energy gain anymore
15:33:12  <Celestar> debug 3 is always slow
15:33:21  <peter1138> no it's not
15:33:27  <Celestar> it's -O0
15:33:40  <Celestar> and on inlines afaik
15:34:03  <peter1138> well it's fast enough to play for me
15:34:09  <Yexo> it's not too slow, on an empty created 512x512 map I can do fast forward pretty fast
15:34:10  <Celestar> for me too
15:34:18  <Celestar> but thats cuz I have a fast pooter
15:35:47  <Celestar> not because the code is fast :)
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15:38:50  <peter1138> rtight
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15:46:01  <Digitalfox> I guess this has been debated a lot, but Is there any possible way of using less CPU in general when heavy loaded with vehicles on a 1024*1024 map? Like using more RAM instead of CPU, or using some kind of temporary files or cache to perform some CPU tasks? I'm sure most of Devs have thought about this and maybe came to the conclusion nothing can be done, but any plans what so ever to reduce...
15:46:03  <Digitalfox> ...CPU load?
15:46:12  <peter1138> pause the game
15:46:16  <peter1138> that stops cpu load
15:46:16  <Digitalfox> lol
15:47:07  <Tefad> larl
15:47:17  <Lakie> no offense, but its hard to reduce cpu load on a 1024x1024 map with a few hundred vehicles, unless you decide to stop processing vehicles or something
15:47:42  <Lakie> Not that I'm have had issues.
15:47:50  <peter1138> just get a 10GHz CPU
15:47:55  <Lakie> Hehe
15:48:10  <peter1138> bit of LN cooling...
15:48:29  <Lakie> That still might not be enough to cool it
15:49:07  <Lakie> Digitalfox: until the RAM can do processing itself (impossible) the cpu will still need to process every event on the map
15:49:20  * Lakie ponders if parts can be processed through the gpu
15:49:28  <peter1138> unlikely
15:49:43  <peter1138> nobody has yet come up with a good idea for parallel processing
15:49:56  <peter1138> (i think people think we're just against it, or something)
15:50:12  <Sacro> 0
15:50:13  <Sacro> err
15:50:17  <Lakie> Due to the Well, TTD is quite closely nit
15:50:33  <Lakie> to multithread it you have to break it into sections of code...
15:50:42  <Belugas> because we do not like their ideas, 'cause they have flaws!
15:50:42  <peter1138> not even that
15:50:45  <Lakie> And then there are the pools of data which need to be shared...
15:51:00  <peter1138> i can't really think of anything that could be done multi threaded
15:51:06  <peter1138> well... music player maybe...
15:51:08  <Lakie> Belugas: Icon works ok on my XP box.
15:51:16  <Lakie> Err... me neither.
15:51:19  <Mwa> But it doesn't use much processing power anyway.
15:51:57  <Belugas> mmmh... that's good for you and bad for me :(
15:52:03  <Digitalfox> So how do modern games use GPU? I'm refering to crysis and others that use a lot the GPU.. Have they be built from the ground using GPU?
15:52:36  <peter1138> they're FPSes...
15:52:45  <Lakie> Like I said I've not had any issues with performance with OpenTTD, but then I don't do stupid things like have 600 vehicles on a 2048x2048 map
15:52:55  <peter1138> they use the GPU to draw... 3D graphics
15:53:00  <Lakie> They are structured differently.
15:53:02  <peter1138> drawing graphics is not the slow thing in ottd
15:53:31  <hylje> split the landscape into pieces
15:53:40  <Digitalfox> peter1138 I know but don't they use GPU for helping CPU in calculations?
15:53:44  <Lakie> Is it all the processing of the vehicles and industries or am I wrong?
15:53:45  <peter1138> no
15:53:47  <Lakie> No, Digitalfox.
15:53:49  <peter1138> they use the GPU for drawing
15:54:19  <Lakie> The GPU has its own instruction set, which is not useful for CPU commands.
15:54:24  <Roest> long story short, people are dumb
15:54:26  <hylje> there's CUDA though
15:54:44  <Rubidium> hylje: yeah... great with 24 bits operations, but anything else... slooooowwwww
15:54:58  <Rubidium> and how much 24 bits operations are done in OpenTTD?
15:55:06  <Lakie> None?
15:55:08  * Lakie hides
15:55:20  <Rubidium> exactly
15:55:20  <Fingon> is stuff like SSE used ?
15:55:42  <peter1138> no
15:55:43  <Rubidium> if the compiler thinks it's needed maybe
15:56:01  <Lakie> SSE is aimed for at vector and matrix calcaulations.
15:56:13  <peter1138> of which there are... uh... none?
15:56:18  <Lakie> Exactly.
15:56:39  <Fingon> SSE can do 4 floating point ops in the time in takes to do 1 flop
15:56:43  <Lakie> Just because the hardware is there doesn't mean it has to be used. ;)
15:56:45  <peter1138> we have no floating point ops
15:56:50  <Fingon> ah lol
15:57:47  <Lakie> The zoom banch might have to though, to get 'smooth' movement when zoomed in.
15:58:00  <peter1138> the zoom branch is pure fantasy
15:58:06  <Lakie> (It'd work slightly better but still wouldn't work still).
15:58:15  <Lakie> Hehe
15:58:23  <peter1138> (or patch, rather)
15:58:42  <Mwa> Is there a list of train related NewGRFs with downloads that work somewhere?
15:58:51  <Lakie> Belugas: why bad for you?
15:58:56  <peter1138> is as close as you'll get
15:59:07  <Mwa> thanks
16:00:02  <Belugas> 'cause it means i have a probklem and not you :)
16:00:20  <Sacro> problkem?
16:00:23  <Sacro> err
16:00:24  <Lakie> Hmmm... I can't see why you would have a problem
16:00:37  <Sacro> probklem?
16:00:54  * Lakie continues to restore his files
16:02:19  <Belugas> sorry, Sacro.
16:02:28  <Belugas> i meant shropmblemz
16:02:30  <Sacro> Belugas: tis alright
16:02:31  * Lakie shall try again later
16:02:39  <Sacro> god this lecture sucks
16:03:10  <Roest> what's up with people suggesting oil pipelines and powerlines
16:03:21  <Lakie> urgh, XP file transfers so slow compared to Vista.
16:03:26  <Mwa> Bah, most of the station sets take you to invalid urls
16:03:31  <Lakie> 6MB/s compared to 10.3~MB/s
16:03:57  <Lakie> They probably weren't invalid when they got added, Mwa.
16:04:11  <Mwa> Lakie, true.
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16:05:03  <Lakie> :o
16:05:04  * peter1138 yawns
16:05:05  <Mwa> oops.
16:05:07  <Lakie> MB's site is dead
16:05:13  <peter1138> yup
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16:06:49  <Lakie> Guess this means the DB XL Set 0.87 wll never see the light of day.
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16:12:12  <Digitalfox> Lakie I thin XP transfers are equal or even fastr than Vista :)
16:12:18  <Digitalfox> *faster
16:12:38  <Digitalfox> *that
16:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never got XP to use more than 60% of the network
16:14:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> bah, my svn is totally acting up these days...
16:16:01  <Lakie> Indeed,
16:16:08  <Lakie> 60% is about where XP cuts off
16:16:48  <Lakie> Out of a 10MB/s network, XP never really uses the maximum, Vista will quite happily transfer between 9 and 10 MB/s
16:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never understood it, because the hard disks are significantly faster than that
16:17:02  <Lakie> Yeah.
16:17:08  <Fingon> my XP gets 10 MB over a network all the time...
16:17:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> locally on linux i copy with over 20MB/s
16:17:27  <Lakie> IUs it a 10MB/s network or a Gigabit?
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16:18:00  <Fingon> 100 Mbit ethernet ofc
16:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> 100Mbit/s is around 12MB/s
16:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> theoretically
16:18:24  <Fingon> so theoretical maximum of 12.5 Mbyte, but overhead and stuff, so 10 Mbyte is about the limit
16:18:41  <KingJ> and 1Gbit/s is 120MB/sec (in theory - most i've got is ~40MB/sec)
16:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> but even with overhead you should get 10MB/s out of it, but i never achieved that
16:19:01  <ln> i have
16:19:02  <Fingon> yeah KingJ disk read / write speed is about 40 MB max
16:19:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> KingJ: that sounds like a proper limit of a modern HD
16:19:12  <Lakie> Managing to get 120MB/s would be quite impressive...
16:19:16  <KingJ> Yeah, the limiting factor :/
16:19:24  <KingJ> I should improve my fileserver...
16:19:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, you can have RAID and stuff ;)
16:19:53  <KingJ> Mind you, no more room in the case for more hard drives in my fileserver :P
16:20:07  <ln> i've managed to get ~65MB/s on a LAN with HP Procurve switches and integrated NICs in computers.
16:20:08  <Fingon> or one of those solid state things
16:20:09  <Lakie> hehe
16:20:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a cooling problem with my HDs
16:20:26  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r12770 /trunk/projects/generate.vbs: -Add: check for missing (forgotten) header files in the generate.vbs script.
16:21:08  <KingJ> Solid state dosen't come cheap sadly (yet)
16:21:23  <Lakie> Solid state will come down in price though.
16:21:51  <KingJ> I'm just waiting for that day
16:22:04  * Belugas prefers liquid state. Does not hurt ar much while coming down on hed, foot or else
16:22:31  <KingJ> Belugas: Why not gaseous state then?
16:22:40  <Fingon> that costs even more :|
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16:24:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> let's turn the sun into a fileserver
16:24:25  <KingJ> The latency is an issue
16:24:33  <Fingon> and backups...
16:24:48  * Lakie wonders how liquid state would work, as the data wouldn't be in a constant place leading to massive fragmentation and data loss.
16:24:52  <Fingon> what if the sun explodes, all data gone :/
16:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> latency can be reduced with caches
16:25:20  <KingJ> Or, we could bring the sun a bit closer?
16:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> Fingon: have redundancy
16:25:55  <Fingon> redundancy as in using a whole bunch of stars?
16:25:56  <Lakie> KingJ: but then we'd all die from excessive heat waves.
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16:26:23  <KingJ> Lakie: Soak it up. Who cares if we all die - we will have the best fileserver ever!
16:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> takes only 4 years to get the backup ;)
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16:28:36  <Fingon> is there a way to see the total number of vehicles ingame, summed over all players?
16:29:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> open all player windows ;)
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16:30:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> ideally, you would have access to these variables via the console [noai]
16:32:17  <Fingon> i'll just get my calculator then :p
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16:52:05  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12771 /trunk/src/ (main_gui.cpp variables.h viewport.cpp): -Codechange: remove more from variables.h.
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17:17:04  <Yorick> hello
17:18:19  <Rubidium> oh noes... a Yorick
17:18:52  <Yorick> oh noes... a Yorick-basher!
17:19:51  <Yorick> oh noes... /me is a Yorick-basher-basher!
17:20:05  <hylje> meta
17:20:48  <Tefad> that's not meta
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17:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, something failed with my attempt to update paxdest
17:21:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> trains don't load any passengers anymore
17:21:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> but trams do
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17:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, it's even more weird, trains with 2 axle wagons do load passengers, trains with 4 axle wagons (both local and long distance) don't
17:30:28  <Rubidium> I'd call that an interesting way of syncing
17:32:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, trying a savegame from a different stage suggest it's an unrelated newgrf incompatibility
17:32:49  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has joined #openttd
17:32:57  <Wolf01> hello
17:33:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> funny, fast forward turns off during autosave ;)
17:35:48  <boyinblue0> i have a problem
17:36:25  <Wolf01> I have lots of problem
17:36:34  <Wolf01> s
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17:37:39  <boyinblue0> i downloaded the latest nightly build and then got all the files into its directory and then started it but when I run it, it should be running r12735 but instead it runs r12751
17:38:14  <Rubidium> that's because you've downloaded the 12751 nightly I guess
17:38:19  <Rubidium> and not the 12735 one
17:38:44  <glx> latest nightly is 12751
17:39:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> @latest
17:39:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> @openttd latest
17:39:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever
17:39:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> @openttd nightly
17:40:06  <glx> @openttd youngest
17:40:06  <DorpsGek> glx: latest: r12771
17:40:06  <Tefad> @fail
17:40:13  <glx> that's the latest rev
17:40:35  <boyinblue0> oooo thanks =]=]
17:40:38  <boyinblue0> i now have it
17:40:41  <boyinblue0> thankyou very much
17:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> people don't seem to like my long distance trains...
17:41:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> paxdests handling of trains that have similar non-shared routes is... suboptimal
17:43:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> like if i have routes:
17:43:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> A-B-C-D
17:43:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> E-B-C-F
17:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> people going between B and C don't seem to take some trains that they should take
17:45:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> and generally people don't take a train unless it had a full round trip before
17:45:25  <peter1138> that's how it builds the links, i belive
17:45:31  <peter1138> *believe
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17:47:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but if i have a new train going on an old route (with new orders), they won't take it, even though the destination is in their orders
17:47:07  <peter1138> could be built up the order lists
17:47:15  <peter1138> ah... dunno then
17:47:23  <hylje> needs to support shared orders!
17:47:32  <peter1138> but probably it stores it per vehicle or something stupid
17:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> but on the other hand, if i delete orders, the passengers immediately disappear
17:48:01  <peter1138> hmm, can't do it via order lists as you can stop at stations not in the list
17:48:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> even if i buy a new train with the same orders again
17:48:18  <peter1138> sounds like a flawed system
17:48:24  <peter1138> maybe that's why it's not in trunk ;)
17:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's far from perfect
17:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> but my long distance trains have a very long round trip time...
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17:49:12  <hylje> peter1138: why should them pax care about stops outside orders?
17:49:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> hylje: local trains often have only the start and end point defined
17:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> while still servicing all stations inbetween
17:50:08  <peter1138> yu
17:50:09  <peter1138> p
17:53:32  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12772 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Codechange: some vehicle.cpp coding style.
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17:55:40  <ln> is it actually a codechange if only the style changes?
17:55:53  <Tefad> code is code.
17:56:04  <Tefad> in C/C++ whitespace is generally ignored
17:56:05  <ln> of course, depends on the definition of style.
17:56:30  <Tefad> however if one adds a body to a loop/conditional that doesn't have one, i think that's definitely a code change.
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17:56:45  <Tefad> body/block/whatever
17:56:49  <Tefad> multi-part statement?
17:58:07  <rebry> anyone know if there is a subway Grf out there somewhere
17:58:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> what kind of subway?
17:58:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a through-the-tube project, but i don't know much about that one
17:59:12  <rebry> mm, cause the busses kinda creates a chaos in my game atm
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18:01:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, "subways" would not be real subways anyway, because only overground rails are possible (and occasionally tunnels)
18:02:18  <Tefad> metro
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18:17:49  <Rubidium> Chicago_Rail_Authority: luckily we have tab completion
18:18:59  <rebry> haha
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18:19:20  <rebry> i hate peer...
18:19:53  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
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18:23:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> what do you have against peer gynt?
18:23:43  <rebry> he resets my connecton all the time
18:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause2>
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18:35:47  <Wolf01> how cute ^_^... I guess if any tt-artist ever submitted a work for this site
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18:45:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> i was just thinking "there needs to be an escher version of one of those buildings", and then i switched to the next page :p
18:45:27  <Wolf01> eheh
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18:51:02  <Skasi> I've got a problem with new GRFs not being shown correct. The colors of new streets and stationplatforms for example are brown instead of grey. Launching OTTD with 256 colors does not help.
18:51:57  <Skasi> It does not matter weither I start OpenTTD in windowed mode or fullscreen, by the way.
18:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> Skasi: dos/windows grfs mixup probably
18:55:59  <st6> do you have a grf to make maglevs look clearer
18:56:12  <st6> i found some new_maglev.grf but it doesnt work
18:56:48  <Skasi> uhm yes.. I am using Windoes XP and tested both the new v6.0 release and r12735
18:56:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is a grf for transrapid tracks
18:57:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> Skasi: it does not really matter what platform you are on, but what version your original TTD CD is for
18:57:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have taken the files from a DOS CD, you need DOS version of the newgrfs
18:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you have taken the files from a Windows CD, you need Windows version of the newgrfs
18:59:13  <ln> if you have taken the files from the Internet, you have done something illegal.
18:59:29  <Skasi> not if I am owning the CD.. uhm.. let me have a look
19:00:15  <rebry> if.. ive got the dos CD and have "borrowed" the windows verson from the internett then?
19:00:29  <ln> Skasi: owning a CD does not really grant you a permission to get the same files from other sources.
19:00:59  <Skasi> however ;)
19:01:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> Skasi: look into the data dir, the dos files are called like "TRG1.grf" and the windows files are called "TRG1R.grf"
19:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> windows newgrfs typically end with a "w"
19:03:57  <dih> are the windows grf's not lowercase?
19:04:25  <Skasi> Oh, so I am using a dosversion. The grfs are named like "OpenGFX_-_newlandscape_v0.3.grf" :)
19:04:59  <Alberth> dih: at a case-insensitive file system?
19:05:39  <Skasi> hmm.. "harbourw_456.grf" does have a W and is actually the only grf with a grey color instead of a brown one..
19:06:06  <Ammlller> that GRF is obsolete anyway :-)
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19:06:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> whatever you have, it's probably the wrong one ;)
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19:07:10  <Skasi> hum.. it's from the coop-grf-pack and for other players they seem to work
19:08:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> the coop grf pack is probably only for the windows grfs
19:08:17  *** lnxbil [] has joined #openttd
19:08:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> as you cannot mix dos and windows grfs for online play anyway
19:09:16  <lnxbil> Hi all, I'm using MacOS Leopard and get a white screen after starting 0.6.0, the old version 0.5.3 works out-of-the-box. I delete all files in ~/Documents/OpenTTD but it doesn't work. Any ideas?
19:09:38  <lnxbil> I also reinstalled all necessary files from the CD
19:11:25  <Rubidium> Bjarni: ^^
19:11:30  <Skasi> is there a way I can change my dos to windows-grfs? ^^°
19:12:00  <Bjarni> huh?
19:12:13  <Bjarni> oh
19:12:14  <ln> you have a patient.
19:12:25  <Bjarni> rtfm :P
19:12:33  <Belugas> you can exchange them at the store if you have the invoice, and if they have the windows version on sdtock :P
19:12:44  <dih> Alberth: means the fs does not differentiate between filenames, does nor mean the files are always lowercase...
19:12:56  <Bjarni> hmm
19:13:02  <Bjarni> white screen
19:13:06  <Bjarni> that's a new one
19:13:27  <Skasi> so there's no way? ;)
19:13:36  <lnxbil> @Bjarni: I have also an error in the console if I start the file in MacOS/OpenTTD in the package
19:13:42  <Belugas> maybe buy it on ebay
19:13:55  <Bjarni> what error?
19:14:05  <lnxbil> openttd[4336] <Error>: CGBitmapContextCreate: unsupported parameter combination: 8 integer bits/component; 8 bits/pixel; 0-component colorspace; kCGImageAlphaNoneSkipFirst; 2560 bytes/row.
19:14:06  <Bjarni> it might help to know what it complains about :)
19:14:19  <Bjarni> o_O
19:14:20  <Rubidium> Skasi: you can might be able to change the newgrfs from dos to windows and back with grfcodec, but it might also not work
19:14:45  <Bjarni> this is 0.6.0 from sourceforge, right?
19:14:47  <Rubidium> Skasi: changing ttd dos grfs to ttd windows grfs could also work, but OpenTTD will complain
19:15:04  <lnxbil> Bjarni: Yes, downloaded a few minutes ago
19:15:58  <lnxbil> I also tried to set my color depth to 256, but I can't change it in leopard, only 65536 and 16,7mil - both doesn't work
19:16:05  <Ammlller> if you use original dos GRF, does that mean, you also need dos NewGRFs?
19:16:20  <lnxbil> The old 0.5.3 doesn't produce the "unsupported parameter" error
19:16:34  <Bjarni> 0.6.0 shouldn't do that either
19:17:14  <peter1138> Ammlller, yes... good for MP isn't it?
19:17:33  <lnxbil> I checked the md5 of my download and it's the same as stated on the website
19:17:42  <Ammlller> peter1138: thats why I ask :-)
19:19:17  <Ammlller> I thought, ottd don't care about that
19:22:25  <Skasi> weeeeeee it works! :D
19:23:52  * dih pats Skasi on the head
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19:25:37  <Skasi> but now there is ugly asphalt instead of a nicelooking brown.. station
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19:27:16  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12773 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Codechange: replace some magic numbers with enums.
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19:32:29  <orudge> Belugas left us :(
19:32:33  <orudge> what a shame.
19:32:47  <Belugas> he did??
19:33:29  <dih> ?
19:33:52  <dih> you could do that on the 1st April
19:33:58  <dih> but today?
19:34:03  <dih> orudge: bad joke
19:34:04  <dih> baaaaad
19:34:09  <dih> baaaad orudge
19:34:12  <dih> sit
19:34:18  <dih> go to your basket
19:34:29  *** mode/#openttd [-v orudge] by Rubidium
19:34:35  <Rubidium> :O
19:34:36  <hylje> bucket
19:34:39  <Rubidium> punishment!
19:34:44  <dih> lol
19:35:14  <ooo4tom> shell
19:36:18  * dih shells ooo4tom
19:36:36  <dih> does not really make a bunch of sense - but hey
19:36:39  <dih> who cares
19:37:49  <ooo4tom> :s
19:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> i care!
19:39:22  <dih> fine
19:39:24  <dih> be like that
19:45:06  <SmatZ> lol
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19:55:26  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: richk * r12774 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ (120 files in 15 dirs): [NewGRF_ports] -Sync: with trunk r12742:12772.
19:55:32  *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ
19:55:40  <orudge> dih: by "us", I did of course mean #tycoon :p
19:56:25  <Ammlller> #openttd is a subchannel of #tycoon, so he is still around :-)
19:57:09  <SpComb> at what point does OpenTTD write out the openttd.cfg for the first time?
19:57:39  <SpComb> after you quit it the first time?
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19:58:09  <Rubidium> something like that yeah
19:58:16  <RichK67> hi
19:59:46  <ooo4tom> evening all !!
20:00:10  <SmatZ> evening
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20:09:11  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:09:29  <dih> orudge: shame on you
20:09:50  *** Ammller [] has joined #openttd
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20:10:53  <peter1138> what's orudge done?
20:12:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> bad things
20:12:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> where the heck is .ua?
20:12:44  <SmatZ> ukraine
20:12:45  <ooo4tom> care to share these bad things
20:13:32  <SmatZ> maybe?
20:13:39  *** Ammlller [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:13:41  <dih> they have been shared once too often ^^
20:13:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i don't care!
20:22:47  <peter1138> ah... rearranging the forums would be silly
20:22:53  <peter1138> i'd have to relearn where to scroll to :o
20:24:54  * glx uses
20:25:34  <ln> is someone strongly against having a separate icon for tram stops on the station signs?
20:27:17  <ooo4tom> i agree with peter, i don't like major change ;)
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20:43:45  <ln> Bjarni: are you strongly against having a separate icon for tram stops on the station signs?
20:43:56  <hylje> strongly for
20:44:20  <Bjarni> now what kind of question is that?
20:44:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> "don't ask, do"
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20:45:53  <Bjarni> if you answer my question then I will answer yours
20:45:58  <Bjarni> @ln
20:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> "you me yours i show you mine"?
20:47:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> *show
20:48:08  <Bjarni> I would never say that to ln
20:48:53  * orudge shows Bjarni his
20:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> but you say "mine is bigger than yours" to me?!?
20:49:24  <Bjarni> I can't recall saying that
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20:49:41  <Bjarni> but since it's the truth I guess it could have happened
20:51:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> [Do Apr 17 2008] [23:56:15] <Bjarni>    you mean to claim that your device is bigger than mine?
20:51:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is less than 24 hours ago
20:51:42  <Bjarni> oh that
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20:51:55  <Bjarni> I'm asking if you made that claim
20:51:59  <Bjarni> I didn't say it
20:52:00  *** Skasi [~Skasi@] has left #openttd [Leaving.]
20:52:02  <Bjarni> you did
20:52:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, close enough ;)
20:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> i did not use that formulation
20:52:51  <Bjarni> no that's why I asked you to clarify
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21:14:15  <dragonhorseboy> just trying to understand the purpose of it but why is there 'enable relastic accerlation' in the patch options?
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21:14:35  <peter1138> so that you can enable or disable it
21:14:44  <peter1138> 'realistic' is a bit of a misnomer of course
21:14:59  <dragonhorseboy> well but it seem pointless for trains/rvs unless you're doing a super-flat map to me ... or I must be missing something :p
21:15:18  <peter1138> it affects acceleration, curve handling, and slopes
21:15:28  <dragonhorseboy> (re fast trains doing only 30kmph up about any slopes even bridges)
21:15:29  <peter1138> and station entering
21:15:50  <peter1138> well that only happens when it's off
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21:20:26  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12775 /branches/NewGRF_ports/ ( readme.txt): [NewGRF_ports] -Fix: small missync.
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21:21:36  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: egladil * r12776 /trunk/src/video/cocoa/ -Fix: [OSX] In some rare cases when using an uncalibrated monitor the system colour space could not be retrieved. Show an error when this happens instead of just trying an assertion.
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21:22:09  <Jango> is there a bug on the website?
21:22:19  *** Digitalfox_ [] has quit []
21:22:21  <Jango> my rss feed tells me there's an article about Server downtime
21:22:39  <Jango> but it hasn't actually appeared on the news page on the website
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21:22:55  <Rubidium> stupid caches :(
21:23:10  <Jango> php cache?
21:23:15  <Jango> it's not browser cache
21:24:03  <Jango> i can see it now :)
21:24:05  <Rubidium> smarty cache I fear
21:24:18  <Rubidium> got no idea how to properly fix it though :(
21:24:21  <Jango> or, not so smarty i think
21:24:31  <dragonhorseboy> heh
21:24:38  <Jango> who wrote it, truelight?
21:24:43  <Jango> (is he now truebrain?)
21:24:59  <hylje> wonky
21:25:51  <RichK67> gn
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21:30:52  <GT> Hi,
21:32:00  <GT> Just a question, now the 060 is beta, I've been following the discussions for new features to be implemented.
21:32:46  * Rubidium notices huge lag somewhere ;)
21:32:54  <GT> But I did not see anything about 32bpp. So, does anyone have an idea what is going to happen in that area
21:33:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> 32bpp is finished, only thing lacking is graphics
21:33:19  * dragonhorseboy had only been busy looking at the 8bpp thread alone
21:33:21  <dragonhorseboy> :p
21:33:33  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12777 /trunk/src/ (network/core/packet.cpp stdafx.h strgen/strgen.cpp): -Codechange: rename fatal() and error() in strgen, so it can always have the NORETURN attribute
21:34:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> and all this mega-zoom and rescaling people have been talking about are pure wishes, nothing of that is likely to happen
21:34:44  <GT> Why not?
21:34:58  <Rubidium> because that breaks current savegames
21:35:12  <Rubidium> or complicates the code by a factor <way too much>
21:35:28  <GT> The megazoom isn't breaking savegames afaik
21:35:32  <egladil> actualy, <way to much>^2
21:35:43  <egladil> ;)
21:36:02  <hylje> megazoom
21:36:17  <hylje> what rescaling? making stuff hueg?
21:36:35  <Rubidium> GT: so you want to see vehicles jumping 16 pixels at a time?
21:36:52  <Rubidium> like 16 pixels every .5 seconds
21:37:23  <Rubidium> that'll make the game feel *SOOO* much better; huge and seemingly sluggish
21:38:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> hylje: like making vehicles significantly longer than they are wide
21:38:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r12778 /trunk/src/core/ (alloc_func.cpp alloc_func.hpp): -Codechange: add the NORETURN attribute to *allocError() functions
21:38:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> aka "realistic"
21:39:04  <hylje> right
21:39:47  <hylje> i could bear making roads larger in proportion, but maybe not a general upscale
21:40:28  <GT> I don't want to see vehicles jump, I wondered what the plans for 32bpp where.
21:40:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> like i said, there are no plans
21:42:01  <GT> And I don't know whether the extra zoom makes it more sluggish, the sprites are bigger, but there are less sprites on a screen.
21:42:16  <peter1138> nah
21:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> GT: the problem is not drawing speed
21:42:22  <hylje> its the feel!
21:42:26  <peter1138> it's just that there are only 16 positions in a tile
21:42:31  <peter1138> this works okay at the normal size
21:42:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> the problem is that vehicles jump
21:42:46  <peter1138> but zoomed in to four times ... is not good
21:42:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> quantum vehicles
21:43:00  <hylje> get onto both lanes
21:43:38  <GT> Right, see what you mean, the ' smoothness' of the movements
21:48:20  <GT> And that won't be easy to change I guess
21:49:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12779 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: remove a few constants from openttd.h.
21:51:14  <GT> Thanks for the remarks, I think I've learned more of the dev's point of view in 10 minutes, than I did from putting patches on the forums for half a year.
21:52:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> mind you, i'm not actually a dev ;)
21:52:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i think i have a pretty good overview ;)
21:53:38  <ln> i think overview is not the word you're looking for, but dunno.
21:53:43  <hylje> nitpicker and channel troll
21:53:44  <GT> Well, neither am I, but Peter, Egladil and Rubidium are, if I remember correct
21:54:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> i might be missing the right word, as i am talking in a foreign language :p
21:54:38  <GT> (referring to developer, not nitpicker and channel troll)
21:55:36  <hylje> but to misunderstand is fun
21:56:44  <GT> Well, at least I think I know what you meant (thought Eglish is not my native language either)
21:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... the smilie ':p' is there for a reason ;)
21:57:40  <ln> native englishmen and scots, can "overview" be used like it was used above? "someone has a good overview"?
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21:58:37  <ln> (i'm interested to know, i'm not trying to evaluate Eddi's vocabulary)
21:59:27  <GT> i'm not interested to know, i'm just trying to evaluate Eddi's vocabulary
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22:03:00  <GT> So what would you advise me to do with the extra zoom patch
22:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> personally, i'd like a x2 zoom, if you can choose to zoom interface (windows, fonts, buttons) and game views separately
22:03:53  *** Mirrakor [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:05:08  <GT> Apart from the managers faces (special request of Ben Robbins) there's no extra zoom in the GUI
22:05:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> then formulate this as a special request of me: have a GUI zoom (independent from game zoom)
22:06:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i don't think any zoom beyond x2 is practical at this point
22:06:56  <Ammller> Hmm, patcher here? :-)
22:07:32  <Ammller> would be happy to have that patch with current trunk:
22:07:37  <dragonhorseboy> this is just me but if I want more details I just load MSTS :p
22:07:38  <dragonhorseboy> hehehe
22:08:09  <Ammller> (Tracksharing)
22:09:05  <dragonhorseboy> mean...cooperation mode is kinda coming back to openttd finally? (ever since the mini-in's)
22:09:16  <dragonhorseboy> ^-^
22:09:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammller: i have my doubts that this is ever going to get in
22:09:43  <Ammller> yeah, I believe you
22:10:06  <Ammller> but I would like to have it ready for wwottdgd/2
22:10:17  <dih> whenever that may be :-P
22:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> not ^2?
22:10:29  <Ammller> ah
22:10:46  <Ammller> it should be at least a yearly event
22:10:55  <dragonhorseboy> ammller...just for the note I remember hosting the last mini-in version online three times.... too much fun sending my trains down someone else's own rails *whistles*
22:10:56  <Ammller> so we have time until october :-)
22:11:01  <dih> then we still have a few months time :-D
22:11:17  <dragonhorseboy> thats why I kinda kept wishing someone would finally decide to bring it back :S heh
22:11:25  <dih> we managed to get the first one set up in 2 - 3 weeks
22:11:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: anyway, "overview" is pretty much an exact translation of "Überblick", so i just assumed the same construction around it as in german
22:11:35  <dih> so lets start thinking about it in september :-D
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22:12:03  <Ammller> dih: maybe a halfyearly event?
22:12:21  <dih> hold your horses now will ya :-P
22:12:29  <dragonhorseboy> lol
22:12:42  <Ammller> and I guess, we won't have Truebrain back, so coding within 2 weeks isn't possible anymore :-)
22:13:16  <dih> he made it pretty clear that he did not want to patch ottd
22:13:17  <dragonhorseboy> hmm well ammller/dih either of you use freight rv's?
22:13:33  <dih> ?
22:13:58  <dragonhorseboy> road vehicles?
22:14:15  <Ammller> what a question, everyone, who played ottd, did that once, I assume
22:14:25  <dih> aye
22:14:32  <dih> and i see no link to wwottdgd2
22:14:51  <Ammller> he is talking about sharingtracks, I guess
22:15:02  <dragonhorseboy> ammller..heh I've seen too many players who never even touch rvs at all (well I've noticed some servers that has generic/dutch trams loaded sometimes gets used tho)
22:15:21  <dragonhorseboy> oh sorry
22:15:24  <dragonhorseboy> -_-
22:15:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> dragonhorseboy: well, everybody who tries very soon gets to the limits of road vehicles
22:15:49  <dih> rv's suck most of the time
22:16:30  <dragonhorseboy> eddi...heh well you can't blame for not wanting to use a K rail locomotive on whats just a 64tonnes coal mine can you? :p
22:17:02  <Ammller> dragonhorseboy:
22:17:13  <dragonhorseboy> which of I always thought that the inflatation always needs some fixing for default vehicles...
22:17:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i have batches of coal mines, and a collecting station near the main line
22:18:08  <dragonhorseboy> eg it doesn't make sense for a silly truck to cost 0K and +/year only to carry 28 tonnes of grain or something late in the game :/
22:18:16  <dragonhorseboy> but thats what it appeared like
22:18:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> like this:,%201.%20Jul%201981.png
22:18:38  <dragonhorseboy> ammller heh yeah I did see the screenshots on that one before...interesting idea
22:19:41  <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause2: YAPP?
22:19:48  <dragonhorseboy> ammller either way if you were to use some rv' often would you probably had liked to see newer ones coming out? (surely it can -not- be yearly or we'll run out of ids heh)
22:19:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> err... yes
22:19:52  <Ammller> why do you signal the station?
22:20:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> old yapp
22:20:09  <Ammller> ok :-)
22:20:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a shot of that same station before yapp
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22:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> might be this one:,%2029.%20Dez%201955.png
22:21:47  <dih> hehe
22:21:55  <Ammller> dragonhorseboy: 4LV is quite ok with that
22:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> i wasn't sure, i have two shots, but only uploaded one
22:22:31  <dragonhorseboy> well I was thinking 10-15 years myself but then I have no real idea :p
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22:22:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> long vehicles is the ugliest thing i have come across
22:23:40  <dragonhorseboy> eddi well its the only good one you can get if you want freight over road (eg 30+ tonnes of grain, not just a silly 10-16 tonnes as most other grfs have last I recall)
22:23:55  <dragonhorseboy> but yeah..some of the longer lengths can look weird with curves :/
22:24:05  <Ammller> Eddi|zuHause2: thats also true
22:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> that game was most likely yapp version 3
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22:25:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> at least i have that file lying around
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22:25:19  <dragonhorseboy> the reason I asked re years is because I'm just trying to decide how to use different tractors without filling the whole id list
22:25:42  <peter1138> LV4 also runs out of freight vehicles in later years
22:25:59  <Ammller> dragonhorseboy: you can use different GRFs
22:26:15  <dragonhorseboy> ammller what you mean?
22:26:36  <Ammller> it will be supported by peter1138's engine_pool patch
22:26:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> dragonhorseboy: engine pools, and you won't ever run out of IDs
22:26:48  <Ammller> :-)
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22:26:57  <dragonhorseboy> hmm well this planned grf is going be for ttdp too so :p
22:27:00  <dragonhorseboy> sorry heh ;)
22:27:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, 640k ought to be enough for anyone :p
22:27:07  <dragonhorseboy> eddi...ROFL
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22:27:20  <peter1138> make a cut down grf for ttdp
22:27:30  <Ammller> dragonhorseboy: do you know foobars RV proposal?
22:27:31  <peter1138> then make a grf with everything you ever wanted ;)
22:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> "perfection is not when you have nothing left to add, but when you have nothing left to leave out"
22:27:52  <dragonhorseboy> peter...hmm...if the coder I find can actually handle making two different versions..maybe
22:28:02  <dragonhorseboy>
22:28:44  <dragonhorseboy> either way supper's ready so be back in a while ;P
22:28:56  <Ammller> dragonhorseboy:
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22:30:25  <Ammller> dragonhorseboy: you could also make timeframe grfs
22:30:40  <Ammller> which overlap a little bit
22:31:10  <Ammller> well, but I would begin with one GRF :-)
22:31:15  <peter1138> not good for MP
22:31:30  <Ammller> hmm, true
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22:35:12  <GT> Eddi, which parts of the GUI would you like to see zoomed in?
22:35:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> all-or-nothing
22:35:56  <GT> like bigger toolbars etc?
22:36:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
22:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> toolbars, text, buttons
22:36:15  <GT> text?
22:36:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> possibly mouse cursor
22:37:02  <GT> I did see a tar with a bigger mouse pointer, but that did not look nice imo
22:39:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, the aim is to make stuff more visible on high resolutions
22:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> by means other than moving closer to the screen :p
22:39:54  <GT> OK, point taken, on higher resolutions that might work out nice
22:43:46  <GT> It's just that I spent a lot of time in improving the zoomed in patch, and just finding out that not much graphics are created for it, made me a little frustrated, so that's why I decided to take a look around here. I'm in a dilemma: continue working on the zoomed in patched, or try to create a nice NoAI
22:44:21  <GT> -pathced=patch
22:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> afaik the priority is to get a free set of regular graphics first
22:46:37  <dragonhorseboy> back
22:46:54  <GT> Yeah, but it looks like 8bpp is getting a lot more attention in that effort than 32bpp
22:47:06  <dragonhorseboy> hmm that wiki link seem interesting but I don't even plan on much of any trams and only few type of buses so I guess its a bit reducency :p
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22:47:26  <dragonhorseboy> to our own ideas I guess ;)
22:48:14  <GT> Been away for a smoke, could you repeat the wiki link
22:48:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> dragonhorseboy: the point is that someone elses bus or tram set can be used with your set, if you didn't use trams and busses
22:49:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> as long as you stick to that scheme
22:50:04  <Ammller> you should give your "favorite" RVs the IDs, which are meant for tha type
22:50:11  <dragonhorseboy> eddi...who else is creating australia-specific vehicles yet? ;)
22:50:19  <dragonhorseboy> heh
22:50:38  <Ammller> so your grf is still useable also with trams or other sets
22:50:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> a) "yet", and b) why restrict it on people interested in australia?
22:52:55  <Ammller> i.e. 4lv uses almost all VehIDs, but its still useable if you don't need trucks with a tramset
22:53:36  * peter1138 wants zoom to work with 8bpp
22:53:50  <peter1138> so i can see stuff when i have a bad eye day, heh
22:54:05  <Ammller> well, it would also help to check alignments
22:54:12  <peter1138> heh
22:56:12  <GT> It does, it does not work for 32bpp
22:56:47  <GT> Though it has some nasty edges for 8bpp
22:57:17  <dragonhorseboy> hm well ammller/eddi question one thought I had been thinking about for some time....
22:57:59  <SmatZ> peter1138: you may try if it compiles...
22:58:44  <dragonhorseboy> offer grf option to enable/disable a small roadtrain trucking group replacing maglev (in construction toolbar especially)?  it'll have its own different incompactible road surface but at least adding multiply trailers probably would be easier
22:59:05  <dragonhorseboy> [well...till there's another way to do it in future heh]
22:59:22  <dragonhorseboy> its just a random thought I had some time ago
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23:00:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can just replace rail graphics with road graphics, just you will get problems with crossings and stuff
23:00:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> anything more than that would be very problematic at best
23:00:55  <dragonhorseboy> true...maybe for as long as till finally you can just build a road depot and buy a truck with your own number of trailers on it :p
23:01:25  <dragonhorseboy> I don't think anyone would bother trying send one 16-trailers truck through a town so I guess a decidated+incompactible road surface doesn't sound too bad
23:02:17  <dragonhorseboy> well...I guess north america also have their own B-trains too
23:02:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> it would still be a railtype for all functionality and GUI purposes
23:02:28  <dragonhorseboy> true
23:02:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> it would just look like road
23:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> it will need signals and switches
23:02:54  <dragonhorseboy> yeah I wouldn't want to think how "rail signals on a road surface" is going to look like meh :p
23:03:03  <peter1138> just use a very long articulated road vehicle
23:03:22  <dragonhorseboy> peter...yeah only question is do you have to fill many ids to offer different lengths or ?
23:03:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> you could abuse the refit system to allow some predefined amount of trailers
23:03:45  <GT> Thanks SmatZ, for the interesting link, I'll give it a try, if it doesn't compile anymore, we'll learn it some manners.
23:03:58  <dragonhorseboy> eddi...hmmm...I'll have to look into that thought, thanks
23:04:50  <Ammller> SmatZ: In which kind is that patch different to the one in the Graphics Forums
23:05:31  <SmatZ> Ammller: I don't know the patch in the Graphics Forums
23:05:51  <SmatZ> this one is just a quick fix, so
23:06:26  <dragonhorseboy> eddi..I was thinking like eg each trailer is hm say 18 cattles ... so ok the player can pick to buy the tractor with four (72 heads) or sixteen (128 heads) trailers and well you get the drift
23:06:42  <dragonhorseboy> thanks...never thought of the refit option before
23:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> +	ZOOM_LVL_IN_2X = -1,
23:06:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> +	ZOOM_LVL_START = ZOOM_LVL_IN_2X,
23:06:48  <dragonhorseboy> might have to test it with a dummy grf ;p
23:06:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'd reverse these two lines
23:06:54  <GT> At least it does have more zoom out levels, but that won't help Eddi's eyes
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23:07:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> i.e. start with start
23:07:26  <GT> but the extra zoom level in might
23:07:30  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: yeah, it is a really ugly patch
23:07:50  <Ammller> a zoomable map would also be nice
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23:08:28  <GT> minimap ?
23:08:38  <Ammller> yeah, minimap, I meant
23:08:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> minimap zoom is a totally different project...
23:09:02  <GT> Agreed, different project, but nice indeed
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23:09:15  <Ammller> sounds like it's worked on :-)
23:09:32  <GT> Not that I know of
23:09:46  <GT> But don't tempt me
23:09:48  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen talking about it in ancient times
23:10:16  <Ammller> currently is one pixel per tile, I guess?
23:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> 2x1 or something
23:10:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> 2 wide, 1 high
23:11:28  <dih> that sounds odd
23:11:33  <GT> indeed
23:11:53  <dih> that would make a strange mini map size
23:12:08  <Ammller> and it isn't
23:13:35  <GT> Didn't look in the code, but my guess it's 1px per tile as Ammller supposed
23:13:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1x1 is not possible
23:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> because you have 1 tile in the first row
23:13:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> 2 tiles in the second row
23:14:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> the 1st row must be centered in the 2nd row
23:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> you cannot center between 2 pixels
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23:14:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> 2x1 means, on each row, you can attach 1 pixel on the left, and 1 pixel on the right
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23:15:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> so you get a symmetric triangle
23:15:26  <Ammller> oh, ok
23:15:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> you get 1 tile more per row
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23:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i think it's even more than that
23:17:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> 3x1
23:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> or 4x1
23:17:40  <Ammller> because of the view
23:17:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm pretty sure now it's 4x1
23:18:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1 pixel down, 2 to the side, makes it the same projection as the main view
23:20:19  <GT> Seems to make sense, though a real top view ( so 1x1 )  would be nice too for the minimap too, I guess
23:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> like i said, 1x1 is not possible (unless you rotate the map to have a rectangle)
23:22:31  <GT> Correct, 2x1 is the minimum I think
23:23:38  <Ammller> just made screen and checked in GIMP
23:23:42  <Ammller> its 2x1
23:24:35  <GT> Rotating the view would be really ununderstandable, 2x1 would make sense
23:25:05  <Ammller> no
23:25:11  <Ammller> its not :-)
23:25:15  <GT> no?
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23:25:24  <Ammller> not 2x1
23:25:53  <Sacro> oh noes
23:25:57  <SmatZ> !!!
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23:26:57  <Ammller>
23:27:14  <Ammller> there you see a area with bought land
23:27:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's 4x1
23:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1 pixels unmarked, 2 pixels marked, 1 pixel unmarked
23:28:47  <Ammller> indeed
23:29:33  <Lakie> Belugas. so is that icon ok?
23:29:46  <Lakie> Or do I need to remake it to try and fix your issues with it?
23:30:10  <Sacro> hey Lakie! :D
23:30:20  * Sacro is trying to beat your PGR4 scores
23:30:34  <Lakie> Sacro: ever tried playing "Knights of Cydonia" on hard using a controller?
23:30:36  <Lakie> HEhe
23:30:40  <Lakie> Should be easy
23:30:45  <Lakie> I was quite bad at PGR4
23:32:07  <GT> It's 4x1 allright, but would't 2x1 be nicer, to match the viewport view?
23:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does match the viewport view at 4x1
23:32:33  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12780 /trunk/src/video/null_v.cpp: -Fix: the null blitter did segfault.
23:32:48  <GT> The viewport view is 2x1
23:33:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, tiles "overlap" in the viewport
23:33:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> the tile "above" the tile (corner-wise) is actually 2 rows above
23:33:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> 1 row is over the edge
23:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> so viewport would be equivalent to 4x2 with overlapping
23:34:05  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12781 /branches/noai/ (131 files in 16 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r12711:12780.
23:37:39  <GT> You did lose me there, if I'm moving  one tile up, isn't that equal to moving in x -1, and in y -1  in world coordinates?
23:38:04  <Lakie> Oh, Sacro, there is a cap on some levels on how much 'K' you can earn, because I hit it once or twice to help people playing on harder settings get better scores, lol.
23:38:21  <GT> that is y+1
23:38:53  <Lakie> Rubidium: does the noAI branch support railroads yet?
23:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> "up" in screen coordinates is x-2 and y-2
23:39:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> err, no
23:39:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> x-1,y-1 is right
23:39:26  <Rubidium> Lakie: nope
23:39:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> but that is twice -1
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23:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> so two rows
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23:40:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> scroll to the very top of the map
23:40:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> the first row has 1 tile
23:40:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> the second row has 2 tiles
23:41:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> the third row has 3 tiles
23:41:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> and so on
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23:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> now draw a (screen-)rectangle around each tile, you will notice that they overlap, and that for one tile, the 4 neighbouring rectangles meet exactly in the middle
23:42:34  <GT> first row: coords 0,0 (world)
23:43:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> second row: 1,0; 0,1 (x+y=1)
23:43:06  <Lakie> I guess that explains why I couldn't find any AIRail then. :(
23:43:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> third row: 2,0; 1,1; 0,2 (x+y=2)
23:43:18  <Rubidium> yup
23:43:38  *** Wolf01|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
23:44:33  <Lakie> I suppose due to signalling, and the track directions its more complex to workout how to make a clean api for it. :/
23:44:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> a "row" in this sense is a group of tiles where the tile centers are on the same horizontal line
23:47:02  <Wolf01> 'night
23:47:06  <Sacro> Lakie: wtf? that's insane
23:47:09  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:48:03  <GT> Eddi, you're completely right, to reach the same x coordinate, you would have to move 2 rows. So 4:1 for the minimap would match the normal view indeed
23:48:26  <Lakie> Sacro?
23:48:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course i'm right, there was never any doubt to that :p
23:48:56  * Lakie assumes Sacro is doing the hard campaign
23:49:07  <GT> I just realized that  :-)
23:49:27  <ln>
23:49:32  * Lakie goes to do the easy campaign for the achievement
23:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> nice nutshell, yours?
23:53:02  <Sacro> seriously
23:53:10  <Sacro> you cannot handbrake drift a bentley continental
23:53:15  <Sacro> Lakie: no, PGR4
23:54:35  <Lakie> Oh, hehe
23:54:47  <Lakie> Yeah, I thouht it sucked but I reliese why its there
23:55:04  <Lakie> After all you hardly want to get beaten in score by someone who only did steel
23:55:09  <Lakie> if you did gold
23:55:16  <Sacro> eh?
23:55:19  <Sacro> confused
23:55:54  <Lakie> When you race on PGR4 you have platium, gold, silver, brownse and steel,
23:56:14  <Sacro> ah yes
23:56:17  <Lakie> If you say beat platium, you would expect to be ranked higher than someone who beat steel correct?
23:56:20  <Sacro> yeah
23:56:43  <Lakie> Based of K's that isn't always possible...
23:56:57  <Sacro> ahh
23:56:59  <Lakie> Drifting with cars is like trying to drift withe brick and no wheels
23:57:03  <Lakie> -_-
23:57:06  *** GT [] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.7 :]
23:57:30  <Lakie> now bikes on the other hand, the sure can go round corners
23:58:53  <Sacro> i hate the bikes
23:58:59  <Sacro> they are so bad to ride
23:59:02  <Sacro> too laggy
23:59:59  <Sacro> i like my Sierra

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