Log for #openttd on 27th April 2008:
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00:11:53  <mynetdude> back!
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00:19:05  <mynetdude> Sarco, interesting link there...
00:20:08  <mynetdude> does anybody know if xfire recognizes OTTD?
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00:39:44  <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2, what does #openttdcoop newgrf have that other newgrfs might already offer or don't err what I'm trying to find out is there any difference between using openttdcoop grfs and others?
00:39:50  <mynetdude> I'm looking at their website now...
00:40:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> they just assembled a package
00:40:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> to ease multiplayer
00:40:46  <mynetdude> ah ok
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00:41:17  <mynetdude> is there any way I could create multiple copies of the same stable install 060 so that I don't have to load/unload grfs all the time?
00:41:43  <mynetdude> the reason I ask is because the grfs are stored in a central location where all copies of the same stable version access the same configs and all
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00:42:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can make several links "openttd -c /path/to/config"
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00:43:55  <mynetdude> links, you mean shortcuts?
00:44:08  <mynetdude> each shortcut could access different configs?
00:45:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes
00:46:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> also, the game will automatically load the grf you made the savegame with, regardless of config
00:48:42  <mynetdude> oh really? Thats handy too... so I don't have to quite remember to reload all the grfs I used
00:49:45  <mynetdude> actually I don't mind using the same .cfg for the two different stable versions, the grfs are not stored centrally as I thought they are stored in the /data folder of each stable copy so that helps too... I just want a generic blank copy for multiplaying with people who do not use grfs
00:51:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> the game will also load the grfs of the multiplayer game, you just have to have them accessible
00:53:04  <mynetdude> cool
00:54:06  <mynetdude> I hate to ask... I guess I will search/find out but I noticed that sometimes cities will say they accept automobiles but I never see auto factories or autoracks available for trains or trucks
00:54:40  <mynetdude> I saw that in some of the grfs you can get autoracks, but what about auto factory industries?
00:55:00  <mynetdude> heck I can think of lots of new industries to add to the game just a matter of time, feasibility and demand for it
00:55:10  <mynetdude> oh and of course a willing coder
00:57:23  <mynetdude> like one I'd like to see is a military base or DoD/Military Munitions factory, etc I remember being told the military used to ship (and I think they do once in a great while) tanks, Jeeps/Humvees (except they don't use jeeps anymore) on trains, heck I heard that the shuttle's SRBs are/used to be shipped through the Cheyenne mountains through a tunnel so narrow the SRBs are only as wide as a horse's butt
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01:04:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> vehicle factories are part of the ECS industry scheme
01:05:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> "vehicles" in that case means also tractors for agriculture and heavy machinery for mining
01:05:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have not seen a military grf around
01:07:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> it would be kinda difficult to integrate these in the game mechanics, as they would be more like on-demand service instead of continuous "production"
01:09:23  <mynetdude> well not necessarily
01:10:14  <mynetdude> military items need metal and rubber/oil so you transport steel and oil to the military site and out comes their tanks, jeeps, tires, whatever I don't know what all the military sent on trains if they even sent K/C rations and MREs on trains
01:10:40  <mynetdude> but thats all good until 1980... after that most stuff went by air I believe as they do now
01:15:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it's probably different dimensions on a virtually empty country like the USA
01:16:05  <mynetdude> why is that?
01:16:43  <mynetdude> it would be kindof cool to start ttd in the 1890s when the first pioneered railroads began... just for the challenge
01:16:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean, the USA is two rather heavily populated areas at the east and west coast, and a huge void inbetween
01:16:53  <mynetdude> I can't seem to start the game before 1930
01:17:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> to cross these kind of distances, anything other than air is not really feasible
01:17:34  <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 now it is... but not back when the military shipments were needed but then again kinda hard to do the whole USA on a single ttd map
01:18:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> in germany, still a lot of military material is transported by rail
01:18:49  <mynetdude> well thats not the point Eddi|zuHause2, it was done back in the 1950s during WWII and was done for a good number of years at least for 30-40 years before they gradually stopped using rail
01:19:06  <mynetdude> yeah but thats Germany, its much smaller and does not have a major landmass to cross
01:19:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course, during WWII that is a whole different story ;)
01:21:16  <mynetdude> well then I'd add the ability to do it from 1945-1975 or so then the industry would go poof
01:22:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, i suppose it would be possible to add military sites that transport military vehicles between them, like banks do
01:23:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean, most of these transports happen from barracks to training sites and back
01:24:29  <mynetdude> that works too
01:24:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> but much more funny than that would be CASTOR transports ;)
01:24:53  <mynetdude> ?
01:25:10  <Eddi|zuHause2> once in a blue moon, a nuclear plant wants to transport waste to a storage site
01:25:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> and you'll get protesters along the way, blocking your network
01:25:52  <mynetdude> oooo that'd be fun
01:26:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> "once in a blue lagune"... that is still so funny ;)
01:26:27  <mynetdude> nuclear waste transport, we still do it here in the US but not on trains
01:26:51  <mynetdude> and we only do it in select locations I believe on certain "routes"
01:26:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's almost always trains across europe
01:27:31  <mynetdude> probably goes through more rural areas than populated areas if they do
01:27:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> and it's always "temporary storage", because no country wants to actually have the waste
01:27:59  <mynetdude> true, but where do they really put it?
01:28:04  <mynetdude> its gotta go somewhere
01:28:17  <mynetdude> of course nobody wants it, so where does it make its final dumping?
01:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is an open question ;)
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01:28:29  <mynetdude> well maybe except Iraq
01:28:38  <mynetdude> I wonder if nuclear waste is reusable?
01:29:05  <mynetdude> brb gonna reboot
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01:29:33  <Gekz> theres a reason it's called waste
01:29:37  <Gekz> and its dumped ...
01:29:47  <Gekz> cxiam lacan >_>!
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01:42:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's a long reboot :p
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01:47:07  <Gekz> he uses windows Eddi|zuHause2
01:47:09  <Gekz> of course its slow
01:47:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course he uses windows, otherwise he would not reboot
01:47:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are facilities that do reprocessing of nuclear waste, but they are said produce more nuclear waste than the original input ;)
01:48:01  <Gekz> lol are you serious
01:48:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> it's also the main method to get weapon-capable plutonium
01:48:17  <Gekz> I really dont like nuclear anything
01:48:21  <Gekz> especially nuclear medicine
01:48:23  <Gekz> I hates it
01:48:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> radiation is nothing unnatural
01:48:55  <Gekz> no, but in the quantity it is produced it is
01:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> the sun emits nuclear radiation
01:49:08  <Gekz> and the fact it is being used as weapons, it is unnatural
01:49:12  <Gekz> The sun is a homo
01:49:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> most rocks emit nuclear radiation
01:49:47  <Gekz> not enough to cause cancer
01:49:56  <Gekz> or make you die on the spot
01:49:56  <Gekz> lol
01:50:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> cancer has been around since the beginning of mankind
01:50:55  <mynetdude> though there are other kinds of rocks that are not as common known to cause human ailiments I want to say limestone but its not that I don't think
01:51:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> by "rocks" i don't mean pebble beaches ;)
01:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean "rocks" as in "mountain ranges"
01:51:54  <mynetdude> lolz
01:52:07  <mynetdude> um you mean mountains actually emit nuclear/radiation?
01:52:39  <SmatZ> yes
01:52:56  <mynetdude> btw I rebooted because not only was my windows acting up... but because my damn internet is slow
01:53:13  <mynetdude> and usually rebooting solves both problems, not this time my internet is still slow but not as slow as it was
01:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> where do you think they get uranium from?
01:54:01  <SmatZ> if rebooting helps to make your internet faster, then you have probably full computer of spyware - maybe your PC is spamming other PCs all around the world
01:54:29  <SmatZ> mynetdude: run netstat to show all your TCP connections
01:54:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> of course they get it from uranium ore that they pull out of mines
01:54:44  <SmatZ> if there are many SMTP connections, then you are a spammer :-)
01:54:55  <mynetdude> lolz no, my computer does not have spyware... I do spyware checks regularly and I just recently reformatted
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01:55:18  <mynetdude> oh yeah I've done that before... ok let me run that
01:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> infecting with spyware happens like after 2 seconds of being connected to the net
01:56:00  <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 true about that
01:56:26  <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2 really? That makes no sense, you have to do something to get it connecting to the net itself can't possibly get you spyware
01:56:51  <mynetdude> the second you open your browser for the first time, I would think so that isn't the net
01:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have windows, it does a lot that you do not know about
01:57:08  <SmatZ> I read somewhere that Windows XP gets infected in in average 20 seconds after connecting to internet
01:57:17  <mynetdude> how do I find SMTP connections?
01:57:31  <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause2, true it may do a lot but that wouldn't make any sense
01:57:42  <mynetdude> SmatZ how?
01:57:46  <SmatZ> mynetdude: I don't know... I think there should be SMTP or port 25 shown... I don't remember
01:58:47  <mynetdude> ah I see nothing of port 25, I see one proxy port, I see one port to this server
01:58:51  <SmatZ> mynetdude: there were security flaws that allowed anyone to do anything with your computer ... they were fixed later, I am talking about unpatched Windows XP
01:58:56  <SmatZ> mynetdude: then it is ok
01:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> especially pre-SP2 it was really bad with windows
01:59:22  <mynetdude> oh unpatched, this is patched
01:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> it has probably stabilised since then
02:00:08  <mynetdude> I hate my internet
02:00:11  <SmatZ> :)
02:00:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> but especially right after a reinstall it is dangerous, like when you first have to load the patches from windowsupdate
02:00:22  <mynetdude> I'm using RF
02:00:29  <mynetdude> they call it "W-DSL"
02:00:52  <mynetdude> oh yeah good point, thats the only thing I do right after reinstall is do updates first
02:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> wireless... boy you are adventurous
02:00:57  <mynetdude> at least get it up to SP2
02:01:08  <mynetdude> err I mean my install already has SP2
02:01:30  <mynetdude> its all we have here
02:01:34  <mynetdude> though I am moving finally
02:02:21  <SmatZ> night
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02:03:18  <Gekz> lol
02:03:29  <Gekz> windows, with the messenger protocol, can receive spyware in 20 minutes
02:03:34  <Gekz> its awesome
02:03:45  <Phantasm> :)
02:03:46  <mynetdude> yeah I turn that off too
02:03:56  <mynetdude> I actually uninstall that piece of crap
02:03:56  <Gekz> just turn windows off
02:04:02  <Gekz> boot into Linux
02:04:04  <Gekz> succeed at life
02:04:16  <Phantasm> I actually have no antivirus on windows.
02:04:25  <Gekz> lol
02:04:27  <Gekz> I didnt either
02:04:30  <Gekz> and never got a virus
02:04:36  <mynetdude> lolz my games run well in windows and I only know windows well enough to use my other appz
02:04:49  <Gekz> lol.
02:04:55  <Phantasm> If something passes firefox, it would also pass the antivirus, so it is only useless bunch of slowliness.
02:04:58  <mynetdude> though I do plan to go to linux this summer hopefully
02:04:58  <mynetdude> when I buy my next gaming rig
02:04:58  <Gekz> GAMEZ
02:05:27  <Phantasm> Firefox + noscript is quite safe.
02:05:49  <Phantasm> Assuming the user isn't an idiot. :)
02:06:31  <mynetdude> well I have heard many windows user not use AV on windows because they are smart enough not to get all the stupid crap
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02:08:13  <mynetdude> offs I can't even get on ircstorm with this crap internet
02:08:53  <Phantasm> I'm not smart enough not to get viruses at all, but I'm smart enough not to get viruses the AV might catch.
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02:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Gekz> and never got a virus <- how do you know if you have no antivirus?
02:09:41  <Phantasm> So, no use using AV... But I do know the fact that there are many yet unknown holes in firefox and other things that might get me a virus. AV just won't do any good even then... Any system can be broken with good enough skills and enough time.
02:10:19  <Phantasm> Normal home users just aren't worthy enough users to be targetted with such commonly, so the chances are I won't get anything.. And even if I had AV the chances are I would get same amount of shit.
02:10:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is huge nonsense...
02:11:11  <mynetdude> Phantasm, well thats the AV's job, I'm smart enough not to download something I don't know what it is or at least scan it first
02:12:09  <Phantasm> It is AV's job to get rid of 'any virus, previously known or unknown..
02:12:11  <mynetdude> Phantasm well firefox, IE, Opera them all probably have holes somewhere to some degree
02:12:20  <Phantasm> The problem is just that AVs don't do their job perfectly.
02:12:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> you also use no condom because they are not 100% safe... right
02:13:02  <Phantasm> mynetdude: IE has plenty of holes, and they get exploited a lot due to IE being used so much.. I use Firefox, and sure the are holes, but with noscript most of the holes get blocked likely.
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02:13:18  <Phantasm> Eddi|zuHause2: Condom doesn't have as many drawbacks as AV does.
02:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> i will not continue with this discussion
02:13:37  <mynetdude> Phantasm, nothing is 100% perfect, you can't expect perfection just like condoms aren't 100% safe either
02:13:40  <Phantasm> And I am behind linux NAT as well.
02:14:30  <Phantasm> mynetdude: If AVs actually worked so they never ever use hard drive (other than to save their own updated virus database), then they might be useful.. But they are idiotic and slow down the system way too much.
02:14:37  <mynetdude> Sure I don't disagree that Fx is more secure, you can't expect 100% failsafe security I suppose that is possible in Linux though
02:14:53  <Phantasm> Active virus protection doesn't need to scan the files being used from hard drive, all it takes is to scan the data that is read to ram.
02:14:56  * mynetdude doesn't know how to run a Linux NAT/Firewall yet
02:15:05  <Phantasm> mynetdude: Linux is not 100% failsafe.
02:15:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> and antivirus is not completely "useless" for unknown viruses, they are also designed to look for "suspicious behaviour", or unknown modifications of known viruses
02:15:51  <Phantasm> The thing is, with firefox + noscript (ie. all javascript and plugins are disabled unless I myself tell them to be enabled for single site) only such special viruses may get past that no AV will notice them.
02:15:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> and chances are, the AV gets updated much faster than the security hole in your application gets fixed
02:16:06  <mynetdude> Phantasm files always go to the RAM before being written to a disc/HDD right?
02:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> security holes usually open holes for KNOWN viruses/spyware/malware to get in
02:17:01  <Phantasm> mynetdude: Everything goes to ram yes. Before getting executed read from hard drive of written downloaded from somewhere.
02:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> which the AV will most likely catch
02:17:20  <Phantasm> Eddi|zuHause2: Known holes won't get past updates firefox + noscript + NAT.
02:18:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> but there is a "huge" timespan between a hole getting "known" and getting "fixed"
02:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> during that time, you need the AV
02:18:18  <Phantasm> In IE, yes.. In firefox, nope.
02:18:27  <Phantasm> And AVs also get updates very slowly in reality.
02:18:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> it doesn't have to be as fast
02:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> because there is a difference between a security hole, and the virus getting through the security hole
02:19:22  <Phantasm> There have been various tests for different AVs and they let loads of stuff, even old, past.
02:19:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> the virus is most likely a variation of a known virus, even if the security hole is unknown
02:19:47  <Phantasm> And the heurestics to detect unknown viruses are very bad.
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02:21:07  <Phantasm> In normal desktop usage, the AV hampers the system performance due to stupidly accessing the hard drive more than anything as windows is very bad at handling multiple hard drive accessing at same time.
02:21:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm already seeing twice... i should go to bed
02:21:22  <mynetdude_second> the problem wasn't my computer or router
02:21:32  <mynetdude_second> it was the RF transciever itself
02:21:51  <Phantasm> There is never ever case to need to read hard drive on active virus protection.. Only in separate virus scan there is need to read hard drive.
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02:22:31  <mynetdude_second> I have had only had to do that 3 times since I've had this service
02:22:34  <Phantasm> But AVs do read the hard drive like all the time when there is some activity and thus already the performance hole, hard drive, gets extra use and becomes even bigger hole.
02:23:14  <mynetdude_second> Phantasm good point, my resident is always scanning any files being accessed... now if I could get a RAM scan resident then I could see not using HDD scan
02:23:18  <Phantasm> If someone made AV that actually works intelligently, I might actually use it.
02:24:40  <Phantasm> It is very fast to scan files on the RAM, so the good implementation would scan any staff that goes into ram (from network card, hard drive or whatever) before it is executed or otherwise accessed. That would give perfect scan protection as far as AVs virus databases and heurestics allow with no extra hard drive usage.
02:25:47  <mynetdude_second> well the AV/database would be stored on the HDD and very little use is needed to access that
02:25:52  *** mynetdude_second is now known as mynetdude
02:26:29  <Phantasm> In fact, I rather reinstall windows twice a year than use AV because the performance loss is worse than time taken for reinstall. In reality chances of getting a virus is like once in 10-1000 years... Then chances for the virus even working on windows server 2008 64 bit is other case...
02:26:46  <Phantasm> AV files and database can all be in RAM, so no hard drive usage after startup there.
02:27:29  <Phantasm> Of course whenever the AV files and/or databases are updated there would be some hard drive usage.
02:27:32  <mynetdude> you mean when the PC boots the AV/database is copied to the RAM and stays there the whole time? I guess that would really speed things up
02:27:52  <mynetdude> right then again copied to the RAM to have a copy of the update during active use
02:28:01  <Phantasm> Yea.
02:28:55  <DaleStan> I have an Idea! Just use a monster RAM drive. Copy all your data into RAM on startup, and then you don't need the HD until shutdown!
02:29:12  <mynetdude> well inteligence in software is needed, but I'm sure it is difficult
02:29:27  <mynetdude> lol DaleStan
02:29:36  <mynetdude> there are RAM drives... but horribly expensive?
02:31:12  <DaleStan> I'm pretty sure you can get the drivers for free, but yes, the RAM necessary to do that would be horribly expensive. A RAID of flash drives would be cheaper and not much slower.
02:32:11  <Sacro> DaleStan: to be honest, 16GB RAM isn't that unusual now, and that'd allow most OS'en
02:32:37  <Phantasm> 10 GB of ram is about 100 euro.
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02:32:52  <Phantasm> But normal mobos only take 8 GB of ram max.. And server mobos are expensive.
02:33:45  <mynetdude> I have seen some consumer boards take 16, hard to find and uber expensive
02:34:12  <mynetdude> 16GB isn't the norm yet, 4GB is pretty much the norm for consumer PCs, 16GB may be the norm for servers however
02:34:26  <DaleStan> <Phantasm> 10 GB of ram is about 100 euro. <-- I'd like to see where I can order that, please. I paid USD 100 for 1 GB not long ago.
02:34:33  <Phantasm> 2 GB per slot, 4 slots is the norm.
02:34:51  <Phantasm> DaleStan: Germany at least.. That is DDR2-800.
02:35:02  <mynetdude> DaleStan then you got ripped, you can get 1GB for way less now
02:35:29  <mynetdude> I got DDR2-800 for less than 
02:35:33  <mynetdude> thats 2GB
02:35:42  <DaleStan> "not long" as in "about a year ago", actually, and for a 5 year old computer.
02:35:57  <Phantasm> DaleStan: Prices have gone down a lot.
02:36:08  <mynetdude> DaleStan ah true I did buy some RAM a year ago for a bit more than that
02:36:17  <mynetdude> but I consider not long ago the last 3-6 months
02:36:21  <mynetdude> for PC stuff
02:36:42  <DaleStan> The people who know more about such things than I said I needed to pay extra to get RAM that would be guaranteed to work properly with my machine.
02:36:52  <Phantasm> A lot of prices have gone down a lot... Hard drive, cpu and ram at least.
02:36:59  <mynetdude> hopefully I can buy my AMD Phenom for less than k with a few perks this summer, the price will have gone down some by then
02:37:21  <mynetdude> DaleStan that is somewhat true
02:37:25  <Sacro> phenom is only about 0 here
02:38:07  <Phantasm> 4 core phenom is below 160 euro here (including 22% vat).
02:38:08  <mynetdude> DaleStan, I don't know how much you know... but typically manufacturers will list RAM they have tested and is known to have compatability (with no problems) but that doesn't mean you need to pay extra to make sure it works
02:38:29  <mynetdude> yeah thats about 0USD or so
02:38:33  <Phantasm> And any good store let's you return ram if it doesn't work.
02:38:47  <Phantasm> No matter if the problem if your mobo or ram itself.
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02:40:02  <DaleStan> But returning the stuff is a hassle. I'm willing to pay the extra to know I won't have to deal with that. Especially since that 1 GB was (and is) my only stick.
02:40:03  <mynetdude> Phantasm better yet, I just RMA them nevermind taking them back to the store but yes... thats true many stores will accept the RAM back because all they do is do the RMA themselves
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02:40:31  <mynetdude> DaleStan lolz... you're fooling yourself if you think paying extra will let you avoid those problems
02:40:54  <Phantasm> Paying extra for such will 'quarantee' the store takes it back when you encounter problems.
02:41:02  <mynetdude> paying extra may give you better QUALITY I won't disagree, but Corsair is good RAM and I've had them go bad on me just after a year
02:41:35  <DaleStan> I went to the local *non-chain* computer store. Such stores are in the habit of knowing their stuff.
02:41:37  <Phantasm> Ram almost never dies, if it works at start and you don't overclock it too much.
02:41:37  <mynetdude> I disagree... as long as the RAM has the voltage and correct pins and other settings you might need it should relatively work
02:41:55  <Phantasm> mynetdude: Compatibility problems are quite common with DDR2.
02:42:03  <mynetdude> I never OC, no need to
02:42:04  <Phantasm> mynetdude: So, you need to know what to get.
02:42:17  <Phantasm> It isn't enough just to have correct voltage and correct ram type.
02:42:27  <mynetdude> Phantasm I just made that point, as long as you get the correct specs it should be good to go
02:42:37  <Phantasm> Correct specs isn't enough.
02:42:52  <mynetdude> unless you need ECC and server type RAM... I don't know what else you'd need?
02:43:21  <Phantasm> If you want, say DDR2-800 non-ecc, not all of those work. You need to make sure there aren't compatibility problems eith the mobo you are using.
02:43:49  <Phantasm> Even though they do fit the specs, they might not work with your mobo.
02:44:01  <mynetdude> I have never had any issues using any random brand DDR2-800 on 3 different types of boards
02:44:19  <Phantasm> Yet.. ;P
02:44:22  <mynetdude> yes I realize that certain brands will not work well as others even if they are the same specs
02:44:53  <mynetdude> the only issue I have had was my set of Corsair DDR2-800 had an odd issue of failing to run in dual mode
02:45:10  <mynetdude> they would run in single but not in dual and did not pass test in dual
02:46:29  <mynetdude> anyhow...
02:46:44  <Phantasm> Well, that is "minor" compatibility issue.
02:46:53  <mynetdude> but yes I do check for RAM compatability to see if there is anything I should really avoid... but I like to go for cheaper and hope it works
02:47:13  <mynetdude> if it doesn't work, at least I can use it somewhere else
02:47:15  <Phantasm> Cheap is fine, as long as you check it should work.
02:47:52  <mynetdude> but I don't think paying extra guarantees anything either
02:48:08  <mynetdude> wanting quality is another issue... I can see paying more for higher specs/quality
02:48:40  <Phantasm> Yea, paying extra won't guarantee anything. Unless the store has a 'service' that they check it should work with it.
02:48:40  <mynetdude> neway... 'nuff of that
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02:49:10  * mynetdude is thinking of what other newgrfs I want to include or possibly have :)
02:49:24  <Phantasm> And even so, you may end up having to change it due to bad luck with it, just lower chances of compatibility problems arising such way.
02:50:14  <mynetdude> true
02:52:24  <mynetdude> has anybody tried to start ottd earlier than 1900? ;)
02:52:32  <mynetdude> I have, can't do much until 1930 in my experience
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03:21:09  <mynetdude_second> .
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03:59:54  <mynetdude> ooo nice I like this script
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04:07:37  <Phantasm> mynetdude: Yea, normally the vehicles are only made for the normal time inteval.
04:08:03  <mynetdude> Phantasm indeed
04:08:23  <mynetdude> but I have heard you can start the game with vehicles in the 1920s... trains were available long before 1900 in some places though
04:08:28  <Phantasm> That is 1950-2050... Depending on the landscape, the time before that the trains etc come differs.
04:08:51  <mynetdude> actually I can get it to start at 1930 with trains only
04:09:34  <Phantasm> First successful steam locomotive was at 1804.
04:10:07  <Phantasm> First commercially successful steam locomotive was at 1812.
04:10:38  <mynetdude> would be neat to have victorian buildings/houses in ottd if you really want to go that far back
04:10:51  <mynetdude> the buildings only depict anyting from 1920 on
04:10:52  <Phantasm> Something like 1830 would be first viable starting time for train usage.
04:11:24  <mynetdude> I agree
04:11:33  <mynetdude> just imagine how slow they'd go :P
04:12:20  <mynetdude> ohhh and think about how much more you'd need to be able to run a train in that era, you'd need coal/tender and water filling stations to fill the train's water boiler tank
04:12:42  <mynetdude> and ice stations so you can fill "refer" cars with ice to keep your produce cold
04:12:54  <Phantasm> mynetdude: They don't differ really from steam trains in OTTD.
04:13:00  <Phantasm> They are just slow and not so powerful.
04:13:16  <mynetdude> yeah true
04:13:17  <Phantasm> Same requirements for running exist. They just aren't managed in OTTD.
04:13:33  <Phantasm> Railroad tycoons take those things into account.
04:13:41  <mynetdude> right
04:13:51  <mynetdude> still would be cool to have that somehow in ottd
04:13:59  <mynetdude> or maybe that should be an option
04:14:34  <Phantasm> Something like 1830-2020 would be nice.
04:14:37  <mynetdude> the the other thing is, in Railroad tycoon we didn't have depots you just replaced your trains right there as needed
04:14:42  <Phantasm> 2050 is too much into future to have anything real.
04:14:59  <Phantasm> Or if someone really wants 200 years, then 1830-2030.
04:15:02  <mynetdude> agh I suppose, but at 2050 by then you should have flying trains
04:15:50  <Phantasm> In 1830, there were only 23 miles of railroad track laid in America. Ten years later the raidways had grown to over 2818 miles.
04:15:51  <mynetdude> well there is one thing TTD/OTTD is missing, underground trains or above ground trains (like monorail at Disneyland) I know ottd has the monorail but its not above ground
04:16:16  <mynetdude> which probably only took half a day to travel
04:16:32  <mynetdude> but in 1830, that was before the 13 colonial/new england states
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04:16:48  <mynetdude> they didn't have a need to travel over massive lands yet
04:17:10  <Phantasm> In 1850, it was already 9021 miles.
04:17:58  <Phantasm> Anyway, 1830 is the first historically viably start for trains.. Better might be 1835 or 1840 in OTTD sense.
04:18:20  <mynetdude> what 20 years later?
04:18:50  <mynetdude> well yeah in ottd it would make more sense to start in 1840-1860 really
04:18:53  <Phantasm> In 1860, it was 30626, and in 1870, it was 52914.
04:19:05  <mynetdude> thats a lot of track every 10 years
04:19:19  <mynetdude> Phantasm are you from America?
04:19:22  <Phantasm> Nope.
04:19:34  <mynetdude> wonder how that compares to other countries in the world during that era
04:19:45  <Phantasm> Wikipedia just shows the numbers for America on locomotive history.
04:20:01  <mynetdude> wikipedia doesn't show any other for non USA?
04:20:09  <mynetdude> err or N America for that matter
04:21:31  <Phantasm> There are loads of different pages which might have something, but I don't have time to look those all through.
04:22:43  <Phantasm> But sure there was railway progress in Europe as well during those early times.
04:23:34  <mynetdude> cool :)
04:23:49  <Phantasm> Search there if you want to get more info.
04:24:14  <mynetdude> will do :) thanks
04:56:31  <mynetdude> :D
05:03:08  <mynetdude> ok last question then I will leave the chan alone for the night...
05:03:55  <mynetdude> when you all do serious playing... do you do any terraforming or do you leave the terrain as is and build on the terrain as is and only do terraforming to make things connect more smoothly?
05:04:14  <mynetdude> as in do you make sure your track stays flat all the time or do you care?
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06:01:06  <mynetdude> hmm trams don't change directions?
06:06:30  * mynetdude is away -( I'm sleeping... I can't be bothered to disconnect )- at 11:06p -( P:On / L:On )-
06:06:30  *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
06:06:51  <hylje> mynetdude|Away: be bothered to turn off public away please
06:07:15  <mynetdude|Away> was testing it, trying to keep it from using all servers
06:08:31  *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
06:11:01  <mynetdude> cool the settings I used should fix that problem :)
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06:16:14  <mynetdude> sorry I'm going for real now
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06:22:30  <Wolf01> hello
06:22:42  <hylje> HI!
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06:36:27  <ln>
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06:39:46  <Wolf01> English?
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07:37:21  <ln>
07:37:53  <hylje> .. sheep?
07:38:34  <ln> i bet they did that on purpose.
07:38:56  <hylje> bloody sheep
07:39:09  <hylje> to get to greener grass
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09:39:39  <yorick> <-- one thing I know for sure, is that openttd is not ment have a winamp remote control
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09:43:48  <jjr> Hi there
09:44:03  <Rubidium> 'lo
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09:44:36  <yorick> <-- anyone concidering bruteforce?
09:45:09  <yorick> would just need a script that inputs number, press enter, take screenshot, repeat procedure, if done, filter duplicated
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09:47:01  <jjr> In some windows, mainly Patch settings, the text is sometimes extending past the window border and when the window is moved, patrs of that text out of window is left on screen. Wil it be fixed? It's annoying sometimes
09:47:30  <yorick> enlighten us with your new strings
09:48:24  <jjr> sry if this is already covered somewhere, I dont' have must time to search forums etc
09:48:44  <yorick>
09:48:57  <yorick> search for text overflow
09:49:07  <Alberth> to be precise, FS#1072
09:49:14  <jjr> thx, I'll check it
09:49:15  <yorick> but if you wish to enlighten us with your new fitting strings...
09:49:29  <yorick> aaw...that sounded wierd
09:49:46  <Alberth> modifying strings is a *lot* quicker
09:50:42  <yorick> in english, there should be nothing overflowing
09:50:54  <yorick> in other languages, you may blame the translators
09:51:07  <Alberth> or the language :)
09:51:23  <yorick> or both
09:52:07  <yorick> the forbid trains & ships to make 90 deg turns (requires NPF) is actually faulty
09:52:13  <yorick> because it also works with YAPF
09:54:12  <yorick> and someone should remove that max station spread warning
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09:55:19  <jjr> yorick>	well in configure patches there are some very long ones
09:56:20  <yorick> but they all fit in english
09:56:59  <jjr> the labels baybe, but not tre settings... unless i have too wide font
09:57:25  <yorick> screenshot?
09:57:53  <jjr> how ho I send one?
09:57:59  <jjr> *do
09:58:05  <yorick> internetz!
09:58:07  <yorick>
09:58:11  <yorick>
09:58:46  <jjr> never really used those
09:59:12  <yorick> now is your turn
10:00:35  <Alberth> hmm, FS#1781 is also about overflows (in patch settings)
10:01:37  <jjr> yorick, will you be hete in next 2 hours?
10:01:41  <jjr> *here
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10:04:37  <yorick> probably
10:05:41  <jjr> k, i'll try to upload a screenshot
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10:07:41  <dih> yorick: i have a new nick for you
10:07:45  *** raimar2 [] has joined #openttd
10:07:48  <dih> yorky porky
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10:12:12  <yorick> yeah...making screenshots is hard
10:12:19  <dih> of what?
10:12:34  <dih> a dvd playing?
10:13:19  <yorick> no, the patches window :D
10:13:34  <yorick> he managed to shut down firefox for doing that
10:13:55  <yorick> [12:05] <jjr> k, i'll try to upload a screenshot
10:13:59  <yorick> [12:10] *** jjr quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox])
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10:15:05  <dih> ha
10:15:07  <dih> cute
10:17:28  <Alberth> the machine may be multi-tasking but the user not
10:17:58  <dih> the computer needs an upgraded user :-P
10:18:14  <yorick> still looking for a way to disable patch settings based on other things
10:18:35  <dih> i.e.
10:18:36  <dih> ?
10:19:05  <yorick> pf_for_ships and pf_for_trains < 1; disable forbid trains & ships to make 90 deg turns
10:19:53  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12910 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Fix: Report reverse sprite status (FD/FE) to NewGRF for manually toggled vehicles.
10:20:33  <dih> yorick: add that check where it checks for allow 90 degree turns before entering the moethod
10:20:43  <dih> i.e.
10:21:27  <dih> if(patches.allow_sharp_turns == 1 && patches.pf_for_trains < 1) {
10:21:52  <dih> sorry patches.pf_for_trains > 0 ^^
10:22:15  <yorick> I got that, the problem is that (requires NPF or higher) doesn't fit
10:22:37  * dih pats yorky porky on the head
10:22:42  <dih> you are doing a good job :-P
10:23:06  * yorick gives dih a hearty slap
10:23:16  <dih> what?
10:23:19  <dih> c'mon :-P
10:23:23  <dih> that nick is awsome
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10:35:24  <Karen_>
10:36:00  <yorick> oh heh
10:36:05  <dih> yorick: how bad do you dislike yorige then?
10:36:09  <Rubidium> *great* tasting cake ;)
10:36:36  <dih> never got a piece
10:36:46  <yorick> thanks for the riddle :)
10:37:10  <dih> ?
10:37:16  <yorick> nothing
10:37:24  <yorick> }:)
10:37:44  <Rubidium> dih: then you should've come
10:37:53  <yorick> 425.
10:37:54  <dih> i should have, yes
10:38:03  <dih> 425?
10:38:14  <yorick> 425.
10:38:33  <Rubidium> 21*25
10:39:27  <yorick> Karen_, what rev should that line be in?
10:39:49  <dih> ??
10:39:54  <yorick> Nothing.
10:40:00  <dih> :-(
10:40:02  <Rubidium> yorick: something fairly recent
10:41:14  <Ammler> is Karen_ a bot , showing us that link every hour?
10:41:32  <yorick> does it do that?
10:41:50  <Rubidium> then she's kb-ed pretty soon
10:42:04  <Karen_> Oh, my boss
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10:42:13  <dih> kb-ed
10:42:15  <dih> ?
10:42:19  <Ammler> ?
10:42:23  * yorick solved another piece of the riddle!
10:42:28  <Rubidium> kick-banned
10:42:43  <yorick> "The Cake" reffers to the r10000 cake
10:43:13  <dih> ?
10:43:23  <yorick>
10:43:29  <dih> whats that
10:43:30  <Rubidium> so 9999M should be the correct answer ;)
10:44:04  <Ammler> @openttd commit 10000
10:44:04  <DorpsGek> Ammler: Commit by rubidium :: r10000 mapgen/README (2007-05-31 15:16:44 UTC)
10:44:05  <DorpsGek> Ammler: -Fix: the readme did not explain how to install the wonderfull ``world'' needed for mapgen.
10:44:24  <yorick> aw
10:44:39  <yorick> mapgen, line 425 refers to generation seed
10:44:47  <yorick> InteractiveRandom()
10:45:28  <yorick> the bottom-left code screendump piece is actually around line 425
10:46:57  <Rubidium> you need r10000 I guess
10:46:58  <Ammler> how does "conditional order jump" work?
10:47:08  <Rubidium> cause that code isn't current-ish trunk
10:47:59  <yorick> I have no access to r10000
10:48:18  <Rubidium> svn co svn://
10:48:23  <Ammler> XeryusTC 		 Post subject: Re: Japan Set Development
10:48:35  <Ammler> Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:43 am
10:48:39  <Ammler> Tycoon
10:48:43  <Ammler> Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 11:05 am
10:48:47  <Ammler> Posts: 11155
10:48:50  <Rubidium> anyhow... the arctic map uses a wwwwwwotttdg-whatever newgrf
10:48:51  <Ammler> Location: localhost 		A quick question: is this set compatible with new industries sets? The previous version I have is only compatible with the default industries (thank god PBI re-uses those IDs) but not with the newer things like ECS or the brick chain.
10:48:55  <Ammler> _________________
10:48:59  <Ammler> Don't panic
10:49:03  <Ammler> #openttdcoop blog | #openttdcoop wiki | #openttdcoop public server | #openttdcoop member zone | #openttdcoop networking guides
10:49:07  <Ammler> Last edited by XeryusTC 10 000 years in the future , edited 666 times in total.
10:49:11  <Ammler>
10:49:15  <Ammler>
10:49:19  <Ammler> Top
10:49:23  <Ammler> oh, sorry
10:49:49  <dih> Rubidum: wwottdgd
10:49:51  <Ammler> that was no wanted, wrong clipboard
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10:50:16  <yorick> rubidium, then it would be case 'e': _switch_mode = SM_EDITOR; break;
10:50:22  <Ammler> Error: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 291 of /home/marcel/bin/ottd/trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp
10:50:22  <Ammler> openttd: /home/marcel/bin/ottd/trunk/src/openttd.cpp:120: void error(const char*, ...): Assertion `0' failed.
10:52:38  <yorick> ah great, the riddle gave me a generation seed!
10:55:20  <Rubidium> Ammler: you broke it! ;)
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10:57:23  <Ammler> ah, I see it now
10:58:59  <yorick> Rubidum, you know how to make people suspicious, don't you :)
10:59:21  <Rubidium> huh?
10:59:43  <Alberth> yorick: maybe 'curious'?
10:59:47  <dih> hehe
11:00:09  <yorick> [12:40] <Rubidium> yorick: something fairly recent
11:00:31  <yorick> Alberth, try to combine that Cake with
11:00:49  <Rubidium> yorick: groups didn't exist before r9000
11:01:04  <dih>
11:01:21  <Rubidium> but that DeleteVehicleChain doesn't exist for a while (don't know the exact rev though)
11:01:23  <Ammler> Rubidium: is there need of a save with that assert?
11:01:37  <yorick> yes, but the left part is trunk-ish
11:01:54  <Rubidium> yorick: but not too recent
11:02:06  <Rubidium> Ammler: or it must be *very* easy to reproduce
11:02:35  <Ammler> well, it happens all the time with that save
11:02:39  <dih> yorick: is a odd page :-P
11:02:49  <dih> quite funny actually
11:02:53  <Ammler> I am not able to creat a cond jump
11:03:12  <Ammler> but its a coop save :-)
11:03:19  <Vikthor> Ammler: You have to click into order list
11:03:22  <yorick> dih, you haven't come further than The Cake Is A Lie?
11:03:22  <dih> is your gateway to sites on the Internet for openttd! Browse our resources or just try the search.
11:03:24  <dih> haha
11:03:34  <yorick>*
11:03:41  <Ammler> Vikthor: I do
11:03:54  <dih> yorick: no - i got passt that one
11:03:57  <Ammler> I can use it with a new map.
11:04:10  <yorick> to?
11:05:24  <Rubidium> now you mention it...
11:05:41  <Rubidium> only 4 people know more than one 'lie' in the cake
11:07:14  <Rubidium> though it is not well enough hidden to completely miss
11:09:40  <dih> what?
11:09:55  <dih> you never had a cake?
11:10:36  *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
11:10:50  <dih> osai has past his 'best before' date :-D
11:11:14  <yorick> hmm...the seed I got is the same as the title screen generation seed
11:11:26  <yorick> but generated, it doesn't even look like the title screen
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11:11:54  <Rubidium> don't use tgp then
11:12:28  <yorick> that's what I did
11:12:49  <Rubidium> ofcourse the getseed seed is wrong for 'old' savegames
11:13:14  <Rubidium> because getseed got introduced around TGP (iirc)
11:13:44  <yorick> someone must've done getseed on opntitle.dat
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11:14:54  <yorick> yah...the getseed is obviously wrong
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11:18:21  <yorick> the top-right corner of the pie :o
11:19:05  <yorick> that train should always go into depot, then wait half-into depot
11:19:16  <yorick> it's waiting half-into the tunnel
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11:23:06  <yorick> I've been running that intro screen for 6 minutes fast-forwarded now, and there is no train that ever skips that depot
11:25:24  <Rubidium> yorick: if you load the intro game 'in-game', then it doesn't behave as when it is in the intro game itself
11:26:23  * yorick tried and got the same result
11:26:54  <Rubidium> did you load it in trunk or 0.6.0?
11:27:05  <dih> yorick: whats that for?
11:27:05  <yorick> trunk
11:27:16  <Rubidium> 0.6.0 behaves differently (though wrongly)
11:27:19  <yorick> what, dih?
11:27:42  <yorick> I'm compiling r10000 now
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11:27:51  <dih> what you lookin into the intro screen for?
11:28:16  <yorick> rubidum said that there was something wrong with the one of the pie
11:28:48  <dih> heh
11:28:54  <yorick> and it has the same seed as I just got from
11:29:16  <dih> what did you get from
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11:29:25  <yorick> haven't you got anything?
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11:30:02  <dih> i was given an account number and password...
11:30:11  <yorick> what's the account number?
11:30:20  <dih> did not write it down...
11:30:35  * yorick slaps forehead
11:30:39  <dih> ^^
11:30:42  <yorick> try getting there again
11:31:32  <yorick> openttd.cpp:425 refers to the line that generates a see
11:31:33  <yorick> d
11:32:20  <dih> and?
11:32:33  <yorick> what does getseed say on the intro game?
11:32:46  <yorick> your account number, if I'm correct
11:33:02  <dih> let me see if i can get back to that page....
11:33:45  <yorick> The Cake Is a Clue!
11:33:47  <Alberth> yorick: I have "Account No: 151298722"
11:33:54  <yorick> ooh
11:34:02  <yorick> hm?
11:34:07  <yorick> 1379191397
11:34:13  <Alberth> you want the pwd as well?
11:34:17  <yorick> nah
11:34:35  <dih> lol Alberth
11:34:38  <yorick> but why am I given the generation seed from the intro game?
11:36:27  <dih> intro game and get seed returns your last generation seed if you entered on
11:36:31  <dih> did you do that?
11:36:58  <yorick> ...
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11:37:32  * yorick slaps getseed
11:40:36  <dih> yorick: i noticed that when doing the getseed command for the squirrel stuff
11:41:36  <yorick> huh?
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11:46:15  <ooo4tom> squirrel stuff ? :s
11:46:34  <dih> nutts n stuff
11:47:03  <dih> if you aint got no nuts you should go 'n find some :-D
11:47:18  <ooo4tom> i don't like nuts :|
11:47:30  <yorick> you don't have?
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11:47:49  <dih> i am quite attached to mine
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11:48:03  <ooo4tom> lol
11:48:13  <ooo4tom> walked into that one
11:48:23  <dih> aye
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13:23:51  <yorick> any chance for me to get fs#1890 committed?
13:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you want to get [...] committed, go to sacro ;)
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13:55:57  <dragonhorseboy> hey
13:56:08  <yorick> hello
13:58:37  <dragonhorseboy> how're you?
13:59:49  <yorick> doing fine :)
14:00:16  <dragonhorseboy> you doing anything now?
14:01:02  <yorick> no
14:01:13  <ooo4tom> lol what a fine conversation lol
14:01:23  <dragonhorseboy> I'm only just asking but yorick - up for a short quick game online?
14:01:27  * dragonhorseboy pokes 4tom :p
14:01:44  <yorick> where?
14:01:46  <yorick> what rev?
14:01:49  <yorick> what newgrfs?
14:02:10  <dragonhorseboy> yorick hmm's some of my questions to you first...
14:02:16  <yorick> :p
14:03:03  <yorick> ask
14:03:13  <yorick> and maybe I'll even answer
14:03:37  <dragonhorseboy> express only or normal mix of train types / which three climate you like or doesn't matter? / custom industry or just default? / any preference on the years range? (eg 1920's steam and early boxes or well you get the idea)
14:04:38  <yorick> 1. doesn't matter 2. temperate, arctic, or tropical 3. custom, preferably PBI 4. doesn't matter
14:04:53  <dragonhorseboy> ok let me check about grfs .. one moment :p
14:05:20  <ooo4tom> i don't have any grfs installed, i'm out
14:05:29  <yorick> you can just install them ;)
14:05:49  <ooo4tom> that means finding them, downloading them
14:05:58  <yorick> no
14:06:09  <yorick> that means downloading the grfpack from #openttdcoop
14:06:17  <yorick>
14:06:31  <ooo4tom> hmm you do have a point
14:06:43  <dragonhorseboy> yorick..true...there are only a few certain grfs that the grfpack doesn't have but then not many people actually use them (like eg with russiaplanes grf anyhow)
14:07:15  <yorick> any suggestions about the pack should go to Ammler
14:07:35  <yorick> russian planeset is in the pack ;)
14:07:41  <dragonhorseboy> yeah? oh hm
14:07:43  <Ammler> not yet :-)
14:07:47  <dragonhorseboy> wasn't so last time I downloaded it
14:07:49  <dragonhorseboy> oh lol :p
14:07:55  <Ammler> its in 7.1
14:08:33  <Ammler> or already in 7?
14:08:36  <Ammler> hmm
14:08:51  <Ammler> yes, its in 7.0 :)
14:09:13  <yorick> the tupolev will be in 7.1
14:09:14  <yorick> * New: Addons for Russian Planeset: Tupolev-204, Boeing787
14:09:46  <Ammler> that release will probably be today :-)
14:10:02  <ooo4tom> so whats going on about this game ?
14:10:23  <yorick> ukrs with wagon speed limits on are always very liked inside my head :)
14:11:21  <yorick> and patched, maybe?
14:11:29  <yorick> YAPP & Tracksharing?
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14:14:36  <planetmaker> Did I read "OpenTTDGrf-Pack 7.1 will be released today"? :)
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14:14:42  <yorick> yes, you did
14:14:59  <Ammler> probably
14:15:12  <planetmaker> :)
14:15:25  <Ammler> with 0.6.1
14:16:37  <Roest> hi
14:16:59  <Alberth> hai
14:17:13  <Ammler> hoi
14:17:15  <ooo4tom> nothing happening with this game now :(
14:17:25  <Roest> alberth my strategy worked so far
14:18:21  <Alberth> keep fingers X-ed :)
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14:19:06  <dragonhorseboy> hmmm (well not 100% but meh :p ) game .. reduced breakdown too
14:19:08  <dragonhorseboy> sounds good?
14:19:26  <Roest> . I managed to patch through cygwin but I'm getting the same problems (even tried Roest's and it corrupted four folders)
14:19:30  <Roest> damn bad press
14:19:54  <yorick> no breakdowns
14:20:16  <yorick> Roets, compile with mingw
14:20:17  <dragonhorseboy> yorick and why not? :p
14:20:22  <yorick> just because
14:20:35  <yorick> because you just can't make any good networks with it
14:20:42  <yorick> that isn't permanently jammed
14:20:49  <Roest> na, that's just someone with less clue than me saying
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14:21:17  <yorick> Roets, say him to download BuildOpenTTD
14:21:38  <Roest> some people don't evne understand the concept of bottd
14:22:01  <yorick> you open it, select branch, select patch, and press compile
14:22:17  <Roest> see, so many possibilities for user errors
14:23:22  <Roest> wow an ICE drove into a herd of sheep yesterday
14:23:27  <yorick> dragonhorseboy, patched or not?
14:23:37  <yorick> and what revision, 0.6.1-RC1, or trunk?
14:24:04  <Alberth> Roest: He found a fix for the problem
14:24:07  <dragonhorseboy> hm...looks like someone need to fix openttd+ukrsi .. no gravel are showing up.. guess I'll have to handmake the map
14:24:37  <yorick> no, try original mapgen ;)
14:24:46  <yorick> or try PBI!!!!
14:24:57  <planetmaker> ukrs doesn't change industries
14:25:13  <yorick> UKRSI does
14:25:20  <yorick> but it's old
14:25:30  <dragonhorseboy> yorick... not quite so
14:25:32  <yorick> and do not used, but use pbi and pikbrikw
14:25:37  <dragonhorseboy> pbi is only adding what ukrsi missed out isn't it?
14:25:43  <yorick> nope
14:25:58  <yorick> pbi is the new ukrsi split down into parts ;)
14:26:05  <dragonhorseboy> hm I'm confused now..I thought one grf was to readd the gravel/etc that the original one missed
14:26:10  <yorick> pikbrikw.grf is adding the gravel
14:26:32  <Roest> it's in german, but the picture says it all
14:26:33  <yorick> the addons
14:26:53  <dragonhorseboy> what is that grf named as?
14:27:01  <yorick> Pikka's basic industries
14:27:08  <yorick> and addon
14:27:20  <Alberth> we should also have eye candy with ambulances and police cars with disasters
14:27:57  <Roest> an rescue helicopters
14:28:01  <Roest> and*
14:28:25  <Alberth> road blocks
14:28:53  <yorick> we already have road blocks
14:29:56  <dragonhorseboy> hm
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14:30:02  <dragonhorseboy> where the hell is that scenario I told it to save
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14:30:08  <dragonhorseboy> its not even in openttd folder :/
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14:30:30  <dragonhorseboy> mehs *wonder about playing with no quarries*
14:30:40  <yorick> why scenario
14:30:57  <dragonhorseboy> made a random map and want load into editor to add the missing quarries
14:30:58  <yorick> just add PBI, PBI addon, UKRS, UKRS Addon
14:31:03  <dragonhorseboy> (as its not EVEN generating any itself)
14:31:23  <yorick> because it has requirements unseen in TerraGenisis
14:31:37  <dragonhorseboy> well where the hell is the saved map tho?
14:31:39  <dragonhorseboy> ^-^
14:31:45  <dragonhorseboy> heh
14:32:18  <yorick> mydocs/openttd/save?
14:32:23  <dragonhorseboy> where's mydocs?
14:32:28  <dragonhorseboy> ^-^
14:32:38  <Roest> zomg
14:33:23  <dragonhorseboy> either way no quarries since I'll rather like to start the game already
14:33:43  <yorick> my documents?
14:33:55  <yorick> what version?
14:34:22  <dragonhorseboy> just 0.6.0 itself and the server is named 'yorickdragon' (which is what I often do for private games heh)
14:34:41  <dragonhorseboy> password's just 'yorick' (I often do that so I don't get someone trying to join with no grfs)
14:34:56  <yorick> you can't
14:35:02  <yorick> you need to have the grf's to join
14:35:29  <dragonhorseboy> well either way get in already? :p hehehe
14:35:53  <dragonhorseboy> be back in a second anyhow
14:36:02  <yorick> not the right grfs
14:37:05  <yorick> please stick to the versions used by openttdcoop
14:39:29  <yorick> that UKRSI brick chain, I have 1.2
14:40:08  * hylje bricks yorick
14:40:20  * yorick falls ontop of hylje
14:40:32  * hylje is knocked unconscious
14:41:12  * Roest kicks hylje
14:41:20  <hylje> ow
14:41:29  <Roest> just to wake you up again
14:41:31  <yorick> sst---you were unconscious!
14:41:34  <dragonhorseboy> hm the newgrf saying its in /ottdc_grfpack/ folder (only thing that isn't is newship/newstation which are in /MB/ instead)
14:41:56  <dragonhorseboy> tell you what..its been like 40 minutes already..I'll just do with a different grf set on a fun map...
14:47:13  <yorick> hmm
14:47:20  <yorick> quarries don't work with 0.6
14:47:26  <yorick> only with 0.6.1 again :)
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14:48:00  <yorick> so better upgrade to 0.6.1-RC1, dragonhorseboy ;)
14:49:04  <dragonhorseboy> ok think I have a silly map for a bit of fun now
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14:49:13  <dragonhorseboy> yorick..try look in the server list now hopefully
14:49:44  <dragonhorseboy> breakdown's off and vehicles expiring is also off as well :p
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15:05:01  <Alberth> who put all those comma's after the wndproc in the WindowDesc constants? :P
15:05:30  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r12911 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIEventVehicle(List|WaitingInDepot|Unprofitable) (Yexo)
15:06:40  *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
15:13:58  <yorick> anyone up to playing on server?
15:14:17  <yorick> ooortom?
15:14:21  <yorick> ooo4tom*
15:14:30  * peter1138 is
15:14:48  <mynetdude> yorick, I read a couple comments made by you earlier today that had some interest to me
15:15:22  <mynetdude> #1 station spread... you said the error should be removed, why? The error should only be removed once the station spread can be removed
15:15:50  <mynetdude> if you can make your trains however long you want them, then you should be able to make your stations as long as your trains
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15:16:43  <mynetdude> also how the heck do trams work, they don't reverse like trains it seems
15:16:54  <peter1138> trams are road vehicles
15:17:21  <mynetdude> oh
15:17:28  <mynetdude> just with different graphics
15:17:31  <peter1138> yup
15:17:55  <mynetdude> yeah but I have seen normal road vehicles turn around at the end of the road, trams aren't doing that
15:17:58  <yorick> mynetdude, the game doesn't get slower by higher station spread
15:18:26  <yorick> peter1138, 0.6, using coop grfpack, name yorickdragon, pass yorick
15:18:28  <mynetdude> yorick, you mean the game gets slower
15:19:48  <dragonhorseboy> yorick mind you there's only two company slots
15:19:56  <dragonhorseboy> I kinda have it that way with many of these 'private' games
15:20:01  <dragonhorseboy> six people can speculate tho ;)
15:20:11  <yorick> mind one of the companies is unpassworded
15:20:22  <dragonhorseboy> yours ;)
15:20:26  <dragonhorseboy> heh
15:21:20  <mynetdude> well have fun with that while I beat up the trams that don't work right
15:21:31  <mynetdude> cuz if they are road vehicles they should behave like them
15:22:02  <peter1138> ah, don't have all the grfs
15:22:53  <Celestar> good day
15:23:11  <Roest> yo
15:23:30  <yorick> coop grfpack?
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15:25:56  <Karen_>
15:26:16  <yorick> yes
15:26:32  <yorick> get me another clue :)
15:26:47  <Karen_> Don't brute-force, it will get you banned
15:26:47  <Rubidium> Karen_: hope you didn't use the random seed of that game as 'key', cause that's random because the intro savegame is too old to contain the seed
15:27:11  <yorick> banned from?
15:27:44  <Karen_> Our clues are perfect, never wrong, and the answer is always there.
15:28:57  <Rubidium> Karen_: then you must know all the gimping that has been done with that r10000 screenshot
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15:29:48  <yorick> real cakes don't exists
15:29:53  <yorick> all of them are gimped
15:30:01  <hylje> delicious cake
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15:30:33  <dragonhorseboy> hehe
15:30:51  *** orudge` [] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.]
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15:31:01  <Rubidium> which reduces the amount of persons that could've made the riddle to three
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15:31:20  <Roest> yorick there's only 2 clients allowed and you're using a grf not in the coop pack :P
15:31:32  <yorick> 2 companies, no?
15:31:43  <yorick> ah wel, that new industrial stations renewal
15:31:45  <yorick> download it
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15:32:43  <Roest> total bridge renewal set test_version #2
15:33:00  <Karen_>
15:33:07  <Karen_> Oh, my boss
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15:33:17  <yorick> it's in the legacy 7beta1 pack
15:33:31  <Roest> yorickdragon 2/2-2/2
15:34:25  <Roest> you just failed at getting another player
15:34:44  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*riddle@*] by peter1138
15:34:49  <yorick> :D
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15:36:04  <yorick> working on it
15:36:34  <Roest> hmm no tram grf with the 0.6.1 RC
15:37:37  <Celestar> Roest: I thought 0.6.0 came with one?
15:37:43  <yorick> roest
15:37:44  <yorick> get in
15:38:00  <Roest> celestar yes it did
15:38:01  <Sacro> wtf is with Karen_?
15:38:07  <yorick>
15:38:20  <yorick> Roest, yorickdragon 2/3-2/3
15:38:34  <Roest> :)
15:38:43  <Roest> gimme a sec
15:38:44  <Sacro> well i have the first clue sovled :D
15:39:10  <yorick> yes
15:39:18  <yorick> you get a pass and account-number
15:39:19  <Sacro> onto the 2nc
15:39:21  <Sacro> *2ndd
15:39:24  <yorick> and openttd.cpp:425
15:39:28  <Sacro> :D
15:39:29  <Sacro> err
15:39:30  <Sacro> d:
15:39:36  <Sacro> has taken me days to get this far
15:40:27  <Sacro> generation_seed = InteractiveRandom();
15:40:28  <Sacro> tf
15:40:32  <yorick> yes
15:40:37  <yorick> it took me one day
15:40:44  <yorick> your account number is a generation seed
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15:41:15  <Sacro> my account number is over 1000000
15:41:30  <yorick> it's a seed
15:41:36  <Sacro> riiiiiight
15:41:41  <Sacro> and what does it seed?
15:41:45  <Sacro> do i need to compile code her?
15:41:47  <yorick> no
15:41:48  <Prof_Frink> Generation.
15:41:49  <Sacro> *here?
15:41:55  <yorick> map generation sed
15:41:58  <yorick> seed*
15:42:02  <yorick> thats as far as I got
15:42:22  <yorick> it doesn't really mean anything, I think
15:42:26  <Sacro> and now what...
15:42:30  <yorick> dunno
15:42:44  <Roest> yorick wtf is it with you and outdated grfs
15:43:13  <yorick> drahonhorseboy *
15:43:36  <Sacro> yorick: but the account number changes each time
15:43:42  <Sacro> so how can it work as a seed?
15:43:45  <yorick> you can login and logout with it
15:43:49  <yorick> but no more that I know of
15:43:59  <yorick> it's just a valid seed
15:44:03  <Sacro> so... generation_seed = InteractiveRandom();
15:44:09  <yorick> probably generated by that code
15:44:21  <yorick> you might need to try to login with another seed
15:44:33  <Sacro> but with no password...
15:44:56  <yorick> does your password start with 5?
15:45:14  <yorick> number & password must be related somehow
15:45:29  <Sacro> no...
15:47:18  <Sacro> sigh
15:47:37  <yorick> tomorrow: other day, other clue?
15:47:42  <Sacro> mm?
15:47:52  <Sacro> !calc 1+1
15:47:55  <Sacro> @calc 1+1
15:47:55  <DorpsGek> Sacro: 2
15:48:06  <Sacro> @calc 1476686700 % 2306
15:48:06  <DorpsGek> Sacro: 398
15:48:18  <Sacro> nope, not that
15:48:55  <yorick> @calc 1379191397 % 5215
15:48:55  <DorpsGek> yorick: 1207
15:49:11  <yorick> @calc 398 % 3
15:49:11  <DorpsGek> yorick: 2
15:49:16  <yorick> @calc 1207 % 3
15:49:16  <DorpsGek> yorick: 1
15:49:33  <Rubidium> lol ;)
15:49:45  <Rubidium> you can get numeral account numbers/passwords ;)
15:49:46  <Sacro> we have a clue
15:49:54  <Sacro> Rubidium: eh?
15:51:04  <yorick> Roest, you still coming?
15:51:53  *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
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15:54:14  <Roest> grf mismatch and i'm too lazy to dig it out of osme ancient internet elephant cemetary
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15:57:45  <Sacro> yorick: where is InteractiveRandom() defined?
15:59:14  <Rubidium> core/random_func.*
15:59:55  <yorick> src/core/random_func.hpp:static inline uint32 InteractiveRandom() { return _interactive_random.Next(); }
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16:02:18  <Sacro> yorick: indeed
16:02:58  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03:59  <yorick> line 66
16:04:48  <Roest>
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16:17:10  <mynetdude> hmm I can't figure out why this tram is screwed... it won't turn around and I can't manually change directions so it is officially bugged cuz it wants to go forward
16:17:35  <Roest> i have a good idea what it is
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16:18:04  <Roest> the track is turning and there's a stup of track in one direction
16:18:08  <Roest> stump
16:18:25  <Roest> and the tram got stuck there
16:18:59  <mynetdude> no the track was not turning
16:19:06  <mynetdude> it was a straight piece of track
16:19:37  <mynetdude> oh wait, no its stuck at the end of the tramway station
16:19:57  <mynetdude> it should turn around there, as any other road vehicle would do the same thing
16:20:10  <Roest> nope
16:20:39  <Roest> a tram needs tracks, probably one of the reasons why it's called a tram
16:21:35  <mynetdude> there... finally I got it working
16:21:53  <mynetdude> well duh, but I was told that it is considered a road vehicle, why??? I don't know
16:24:28  <yorick> very well then, dragonhorseboy
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16:25:24  <dragonhorseboy> sorry yorick..mouse was supposed to go on 'give money'
16:25:27  <dragonhorseboy> weird menu if you ask me
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16:27:01  <dragonhorseboy> yorick I hope you're there >_<
16:27:12  <yorick> Been kicked all over the place today, tired of it.
16:27:25  *** orudge [] has quit []
16:27:29  <dragonhorseboy> well I was meant to give you $ for all the road troubles :/
16:27:45  <yorick> which I didn't have
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16:28:16  <dragonhorseboy> well the operating graph was like me being 3-4 times higher than you so I thought I'll give you $ for all that extra road works
16:28:40  <Roest> lol
16:28:54  <dragonhorseboy> roest..what? its true ^-^
16:29:59  *** mode/#openttd [+o orudge] by ChanServ
16:30:15  <dragonhorseboy> well brb for a moment then going build more highways myself as well
16:30:39  <Roest> go start a game without crappy conflicting grfs
16:30:57  <yorick> and with trains
16:31:24  <yorick> I didn't remember my password
16:31:40  <Roest> :)
16:31:46  <dragonhorseboy> yorick....server or company password?
16:31:55  <Roest> best excuse for not rejoining a crappy game
16:32:01  <yorick> company
16:32:14  <dragonhorseboy> ah hmm one moment :p
16:32:20  <yorick> I set it to 1395710978609 or something
16:32:26  <Roest> haha
16:32:29  <yorick> so others wouldn't join my company
16:33:46  <dragonhorseboy> hmm is there a way for server to reset password or is it only a reloading of the game that does that?
16:35:03  <yorick> reloading the game, but if you do, do it without crappy conflicting grfs
16:35:22  <Ammler> :-)
16:35:50  <mynetdude> I have been kicked from ottd games "on accident" before... so I know the feeling
16:35:51  <Ammler> CIV is MP safe without TS btw.
16:36:01  <dragonhorseboy> conflicting?
16:36:09  <mynetdude> I'm not saying it wasn't accidental, but it sure seems to happen every now and then
16:36:21  <Sacro> <- hotlinking is wrong, don't do it (nsfw)
16:36:23  <dragonhorseboy> the only thing is the 4LV has a white/red '!' on it but then thats because I'm making it drive on wrong side -_-
16:36:47  <yorick> Ammler, but thats the only patch I really like from it
16:37:13  <Ammler> indeed
16:37:34  <Ammler> daylength seems neat too
16:37:55  <dragonhorseboy> hmm either way...trying finish one leg of the highway here then will see re reloading
16:37:55  <Ammler> and YAPP of course
16:37:57  <yorick> <-- should update this one then
16:38:09  <Ammler> yeah
16:38:16  <Ammler> that one is MP safe
16:38:34  <yorick> but not configurable
16:38:35  <Ammler> but I am not able to update it
16:38:50  <Ammler> and only comp 1 has shared tracks
16:38:55  <mynetdude> highway?
16:46:41  <yorick> Ammler, should post it into
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16:47:27  <Ammler> yorick: I already did...
16:47:33  <Ammler> some time ago
16:47:58  <Ammler> Victor was at the CIV server and we spoke about ti
16:47:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> w'ha't ab'out t'he a'po'st'rop'hes'?
16:48:58  <Ammler> ?
16:49:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> *note to self* don't answer to questions in the buffer :p
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16:50:09  <Roest> you probably asnwered earlier, it just took you so long to type it out
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16:50:23  <yorick> Barni!
16:50:27  <Vikthor> Ammler, well we have been playing with CIV at Tycoonez and even when we disabled TS, we were still getting desyncs
16:50:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro!
16:50:52  <Vikthor> unfortunately we haven't been able to narrow id town to one patch
16:51:02  <Vikthor> * it
16:51:09  <Vikthor> * it down
16:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> what kind of patches do you have?
16:52:25  <Ammler> Vikthor: after I disabled TS, I had no desyncs anymore
16:53:24  <Vikthor> Ammler: did you start new game, or just disabled the patches and went on?
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16:54:32  <Ammler> just disabled the whole TS
16:54:40  <yorick> new game?
16:54:42  <Ammler> and enabled all other patches
16:54:46  <yorick> or just disabled using patches?
16:55:13  <Ammler> disabled over console in a running game
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16:55:27  <Ammler> the one you know from .dev
16:56:18  <Celestar> man you guys are committing at neckbreak speed. I hardly keep up with reading the logs :o
16:56:51  <Vikthor> Ammler: well that did not worked for us
16:57:25  <Ammler> did Bjarni already commit his patch?
16:57:31  <Ammler> the new autoreplace
16:57:46  <Vikthor> Ammler: can I download a save, i would like to compare configs
16:57:57  <dragonhorseboy> sorry was afk to eat hot lunch :p
16:58:13  *** yorick [] has quit [Quit:  HydraIRC -> <- Like it?  Visit #hydrairc on EFNet]
16:58:19  <Ammler> Vikthor:
16:58:40  <Vikthor> thank you
16:58:51  <Ammler> if you like to have a current one, go to, type !save and that will be game.sav
16:59:07  *** jp [] has quit [Quit: jp]
16:59:12  <Ammler> or a autosave
17:01:53  <dragonhorseboy> great...ran out of 0K loan on the highways :p
17:02:07  <dragonhorseboy> got it almost over halfway across map tho
17:02:15  <dragonhorseboy> hm going restart server anyhow..
17:02:32  * peter1138 wonders if dragonhorseboy plays like roboboy
17:02:41  <dragonhorseboy> peter..what you mean?
17:03:18  <Bjarni> <Ammler> did Bjarni already commit his patch? <-- not yet
17:03:33  <dragonhorseboy> yorick any time you want to your company has no password now :p
17:03:34  <Bjarni> I'm reading through it right now to make sure it's ok
17:04:17  <Ammler> new version since this morning?
17:05:15  <Prof_Frink> Hmm, should 0.6.1-RC1 be in t'topic?
17:05:53  <dragonhorseboy> how does roboboy play anyhow?
17:08:39  *** Yexo [] has joined #openttd
17:08:57  <Sacro> Bjarni!
17:08:59  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2!
17:09:13  <Sacro> alas... poor yorick
17:09:47  <dragonhorseboy> sacro...yeah where's yorick anyhow? :/
17:09:59  <Sacro> how should i know
17:10:03  <Sacro> i only stalk one person in here
17:10:05  <dragonhorseboy> heh :p
17:10:20  <dragonhorseboy> me wondering if I should find another manager for blue company (I'm green) on this map
17:10:44  *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
17:13:41  <dih> hello
17:13:54  <dragonhorseboy> hey dih
17:14:04  * dragonhorseboy pokes yorick for the last time out of curiousity
17:14:25  <dih> he aint here
17:14:33  <Sacro> ;oes
17:14:34  <Sacro> err
17:14:35  <Sacro> lies
17:14:45  <dih> :-)
17:15:41  <dih> Sacro: "So yeah... stuck on the second question... anyone past it?" <-- same here
17:17:16  *** Osai`off is now known as Osai
17:19:22  <dragonhorseboy> well if anyone sees yorick tell him I fixed both the road issue and resetted the company passwords ... and that I might be back around 3-4 hours later or tomorrow morning
17:19:36  <peter1138> resetted?
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17:20:12  <dih> yeah - forget it :-P
17:20:15  <mynetdude> like resetted is a word
17:20:22  <Roest> and he didnt tell you how he did it
17:20:23  <mynetdude> ;)
17:20:35  <dih> or what he set it to
17:20:40  <dih> *setteted
17:20:57  <Prof_Frink> dih: Placed in a badger's home?
17:21:05  <mynetdude> setteted? wth? that is just a bad word in my taste
17:21:48  <dih> setteted was to reflect resetted :-D
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17:23:46  <mynetdude> oh I know, but still a silly word to use
17:23:51  <mynetdude> incorrectly anyway
17:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> only a german mind can think of such words :p
17:25:52  <Sacro> germans just stick words together till they get roughly what they mean
17:31:03  <dih> stop bitchin about germans
17:31:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> mine was a compliment ;)
17:31:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> you are not lost yet ;)
17:33:03  <dih> phew
17:33:58  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: no, we won...
17:39:13  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:41:02  <dih> Sacro: get past the second question on that odd page and give us the answer... then we'll let you win ^^
17:41:26  <Sacro> sigh...
17:41:32  <Sacro> we only have that one clue
17:41:35  <Sacro> and tis cryptic
17:42:12  <Roest> omg lol
17:42:32  <Roest> someone dug up the chrisIN thread
17:42:49  * dih shovles dirt back onto the thread
17:43:17  <mynetdude> uh oh
17:43:17  <Roest> slowly but surely i start to think those dilbert comics are more like reality
17:43:25  <mynetdude> guess you guys don't like it?
17:43:29  <Wolf01> I want to timetable some trains to load at a station for 50 days
17:43:30  <Wolf01> 1) full load & 50 days: the train stays there until full loaded, almost 150 days
17:43:30  <Wolf01> 2) load if available & 50 days: the train loads what it finds and go to next order
17:43:30  <Wolf01> I didn't timetable all the orders, only the station I needed, should I timetable all the orders and travel?
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17:44:18  <mynetdude> I don't understand timetabling
17:44:34  <dih> Wolf01: would it help if you did this auto fill option and then set the timetable for the statiosn?
17:44:36  <mynetdude> and why would you want the train to stay there over a month and 1/2 you need daily service or weekly service :P
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17:47:57  <Wolf01> seem to work better, but not for all trains which share the orders
17:49:04  <Wolf01> the train which I use to change the timetable stays for the time I put there, the other one behave like there isn't a timetable
17:49:25  <mynetdude> I also noticed that if your train carries more than one type of cargo (pax, mail, goods) it will take longer to load
17:50:07  <Wolf01> mynetdude, sometimes when industries have low output is better to deliver the cargo also if not full loaded, because they pay running costs (why?) also if they are stopped at a station
17:50:44  <Wolf01> and I usually don't use multiple cargo trains
17:52:49  <mynetdude> well for low output I just make the train stay until full load
17:53:14  <mynetdude> no need for timetabling that I can see I don't see how it changes anything I have tried making it change but I saw no effect
17:54:40  <Wolf01> with low output and full load the train pays a lot of running costs, and more it is long, more it takes to load and more it pays
17:55:56  <mynetdude> either that or I make the train shorter and have it run back and forth
17:56:16  <mynetdude> either full loading or making the train shorter to match the output is easiest IMHO
17:56:17  <Wolf01> with timetables you can force the train to leave after some days of loading, so it load time is like a train with 1/2 of length
17:56:56  <mynetdude> so are you saying that if the train is not timetabled it will try to load all its cars first?
17:57:02  <mynetdude> that shouldn't happen unless you use full load
17:59:56  *** gfldex_ is now known as gfldex
18:02:21  <Wolf01> it's a little hard for me to eplain this, but, if your train normally, with enough available cargo, full loads in 10 days
18:03:11  <Wolf01> if the industry drop the production, your train will load, for example, in 100 days
18:03:49  <Wolf01> so, if you limit the load time to 50 days, you have a 1/2 train loaded
18:04:08  <Wolf01> without sending all the trains to depot an cut them
18:04:54  <mynetdude> I see your point, but your train shouldn't full load unless you have full load set
18:05:06  <mynetdude> cutting the stay time is probably an ideal solution
18:05:07  <Wolf01> the train doesn't full load
18:05:49  <Wolf01> if the industry can't produce enough cargo to full load a train in 50 days, it doesn't full load
18:06:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bjarni * r12912 /trunk/src/ (vehicle_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.h): -Codechange: overloaded ChangeVehicleViewWindow() so each argument can be either a Vehicle pointer or a VehicleID
18:06:13  <mynetdude> hmm
18:06:48  <ln> a Bjarni™ commit.
18:07:38  <Bjarni> actually I made one big diff and now I split it into smaller parts (to make bug hunting, log reading and so on easier)
18:07:42  <Wolf01> if I set to load only what the train finds, it will enter the station, sees nothing and delivers "air", with timetable I can make it wait to load at least 2 wagons and make profit
18:08:22  *** Roest [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:10:01  <Wolf01> the problem is: if they are full loaded after 20 days, should them wait other 30 days because I timetabled 50 days?
18:10:11  <mynetdude> ah well rather than timetabling why not a feature to tell the game how many cars to load
18:10:14  <Wolf01> that's the questions :D
18:10:43  <mynetdude> well then there needs to be an IF THEN statement
18:10:57  <Wolf01> because you can do it with timetable, since the running costs are time based and not cargo based
18:11:00  <mynetdude> if the train is fully loaded after 20 days then leave, otherwise stay until 50 days
18:11:12  <mynetdude> oh
18:11:22  <Wolf01> yes that's is what I'm asking hot to do :P
18:11:50  <Wolf01> dinner time
18:12:01  <mynetdude> also whats the thing about the train running on time or not? Does that mean anything or have any effect?
18:12:28  <mynetdude> have fun, I'm hungry... I gotta do a couple things
18:12:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> if it is running on time, it will stick to waiting times in the stations
18:13:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> if it is not running on time, it is leaving as fast as it can
18:13:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> problem is, the autofill does not account for a sufficient safety margin
18:13:25  <mynetdude> oh
18:13:38  <mynetdude> ah
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18:13:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> so after you do an autofill run, you have to adjust the waiting times
18:13:53  <mynetdude> so what about travel time?
18:14:06  <mynetdude> why is travel timetabled?
18:14:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> to allow for a late train to catch up
18:14:21  <mynetdude> hmm
18:14:30  <mynetdude> think that the timetable is overly complicatec
18:14:33  <mynetdude> *complicated
18:14:48  <mynetdude> bbiab
18:14:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> with timetables, you can e.g. create "holes" in the cargo traffic, to allow a fast passenger train to get through without stopping
18:15:10  *** mynetdude is now known as mynetdude|Away
18:15:44  <mynetdude|Away> Eddi|zuHause2, that sounds kinda difficult to do although a great idea
18:15:55  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: with maedhros patch, but thats not in trunk now?
18:16:12  <ln> Ammler: english only.
18:16:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: what patch?
18:16:35  <Ammler> where you can set dates
18:16:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> timetabling needs a synchronisation feature, yes
18:17:13  <Ammler> he posted it in general section, thats why I saw it late
18:17:39  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
18:17:39  <Ammler>
18:18:15  <Ammler> didn't try it yet
18:19:08  <Ammler> [20:16] <ln> Ammler: english only. <-- sorry for my bad english. :-)
18:19:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't browse the forums often
18:19:34  <Ammler> I don't browse the general section usually
18:19:49  <Ammler> only Graphics and development
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18:26:14  <Wolf01> I'm playing a little with timetables now, I succeeded to reduce the negative profit of 2 trains from -40M to -9M with "load if available" and "stay for xx days"
18:28:39  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
18:29:01  <bowman> I've only used to avoid passenger transport from bunching together
18:32:19  <bowman> +timetables :)
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19:50:05  <ooo4tom> seems quiet this evening
19:50:25  <dih> shush
19:51:10  <ooo4tom> :^)
19:51:31  <dih> night
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20:09:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bjarni * r12913 /trunk/src/ (8 files):
20:09:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Add: ability to backup and restore a player's economic data and data for a vehicle (or chain of vehicles)
20:09:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  Autoreplace uses this with the following benefits:
20:09:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  -Mass autoreplace (the button in the depot window) will now estimate costs correctly
20:09:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  -Autoreplace now either replaces correctly or manages to keep the original vehicle (no more broken trains)
20:09:52  <CIA-3> OpenTTD:  Thanks to Ammler for testing this
20:11:26  <Sacro> Bjarni: i want thanks :(
20:11:44  <Bjarni> then you should test when I ask for testers
20:11:54  <Bjarni> instead of going into C# mode
20:12:03  <Roest> lol
20:12:18  <Sacro> sigh
20:13:12  <Bjarni> it's not too late to test it
20:13:34  <Bjarni> but I think Ammler managed to find whatever issues it still contained at the time
20:13:57  <Ammler> you are welcome Bjarni :-) well, I just tested what I needed, dunno if there is something else...
20:14:18  <planetmaker> ^^ selfish you! ;)
20:14:22  <Ammler> did you also fix the problem with the dualhead?
20:14:35  <Bjarni> I tested "something else" pretty well but you managed to find a GRF with some rules I didn't test for
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20:15:19  <Bjarni> <Ammler> did you also fix the problem with the dualhead? <-- it will not fuck up the train anymore but it will not replace it either. I know how to fix it but the patch were getting too big as it was
20:15:52  <Bjarni> I expect the train in question can replace within the next 5 of my commits
20:16:16  <Ammler> :-)
20:16:24  <peter1138> hmm, no conflicts... that's ominous
20:17:55  <Bjarni> well it's still an improvement compared to how autoreplace worked before this commit as it would break the train
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20:18:38  * Sacro plays around in blender
20:18:46  <Bjarni> meaning this commit didn't break it and AFAIK didn't break anything else
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20:20:09  <dragonhorseboy> hey
20:20:48  <Bjarni> hello dragonhorseboy
20:20:57  * Bjarni tries to make sense of that name
20:21:21  <Bjarni> looks like it's 3 more or less random words joined together
20:21:30  <dragonhorseboy> very funny :p
20:21:32  <dragonhorseboy> how're you?
20:21:37  <Bjarni> great
20:22:07  <Bjarni> @openttd commit 12913
20:22:07  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: Commit by bjarni :: r12913 /trunk/src (8 files) (2008-04-27 20:09:29 UTC)
20:22:08  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: -Add: ability to backup and restore a player's economic data and data for a vehicle (or chain of vehicles)
20:22:09  <DorpsGek> Bjarni:   Autoreplace uses this with the following benefits:
20:22:10  <DorpsGek> Bjarni:   -Mass autoreplace (the button in the depot window) will now estimate costs correctly
20:22:11  <DorpsGek> Bjarni:   -Autoreplace now either replaces correctly or manages to keep the original vehicle (no more broken trains)
20:22:12  <DorpsGek> Bjarni: (...)
20:22:23  <Bjarni> you can do anything but feel great after committing something like this :)
20:22:33  <Ammler> :-)
20:22:56  <Ammler> coop ps is full another time
20:23:04  <Ammler> I would like more slots :-P
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20:23:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> there's probably a "not" missing there, Bjarni
20:24:04  <Wolf01> 'night
20:24:07  <dragonhorseboy> ammler...heh..and I'm wondering what to do with like at least four different server saves in only three days .. its making me a bit clueless on why its so difficult to finish any online games
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20:24:10  <dragonhorseboy> what do I really know tho
20:24:42  <dragonhorseboy> ;)
20:26:09  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause2: looks like it
20:26:16  <mynetdude> I noticed each player in the multiplayer game can save the same version of the map and play it on their own offline or host it to be played by others as well
20:26:31  <Bjarni> luckily I do a lot more proof reading on the stuff I commit than the stuff I write in IRC
20:26:32  <dragonhorseboy> mynetdude...not quite that easily with more than one company slot tho
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20:26:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can use the company cheat
20:27:05  <mynetdude> what do u mean dragonhorseboy?
20:27:39  <mynetdude> if there is more than one company slot, well they just wouldn't be "AI" right?
20:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> he means you cannot choose the company you want to join if you load in singleplayer, you'll always join company 0
20:28:10  <dragonhorseboy> that as well
20:28:36  <mynetdude> really? cuz I loaded my multiplayer map and got my company not the company 0
20:28:49  <mynetdude> unless my company happened to be company 0?
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20:33:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you were the first person to join
20:34:54  <mynetdude> oh ok
20:35:08  <mynetdude> but then it'd be worthless because all the company slots would not be AI
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20:41:58  <dragonhorseboy> hey tokai
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23:28:07  <mynetdude> this is interesting:
23:28:12  <mynetdude> oops let me get tinyurl
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23:29:00  <mynetdude>
23:31:48  <Bjarni> <-- or you could just give the correct URL to begin with :P
23:33:25  <Bjarni> looks interesting
23:33:36  <Bjarni> I will take a look tomorrow
23:33:39  <Bjarni> goodnight
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23:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> what part about that is "interesting"?
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