Log for #openttd on 2nd May 2008:
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02:07:20  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r12934 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: Before verification of local authority, just make sure airport can physically be built there. Just moving tests
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06:18:09  <Roest> morning
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08:15:59  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r12935 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1975]: vehicles forget their manual depot order when stopping at a station. Now we just pass through the station without stopping when a vehicle has been given a depot order.
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08:57:55  <ln> Bjarni!
08:58:04  <Alberth> too late
08:58:36  <ln> i was precisely on time, Bjarni was too early.
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08:59:38  <Wolf01> hello
08:59:39  <ln> telecomitalia!
08:59:44  <Gekz> Omg.
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09:36:03  <kuifware> Hi people! I have a question reqarding the Squirrel API in the NoAI branch: it appears the Squirrel Standard API (math, string, blob, etc.) isn't loaded; is this intentional or a missing feature for which I can file a bug?
09:36:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> there should be like a #openttd.noai channel
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09:37:44  <kuifware> thx I will post the question there
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10:15:16  <Osai> hi
10:15:32  <Osai> compiling for intel and powerpc builds is broken
10:15:43  <Osai>
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10:19:24  <XeryusTC> Osai: no it isnt
10:19:28  <XeryusTC> it's removed
10:19:33  <Osai> why?
10:19:42  <Osai> removed forever?
10:20:17  <XeryusTC> read the news on the site
10:20:34  <Progman> "From tomorrow onward the nightlies targets macosx-intel, macosx-powerpc and all macosx dedicated builds will be removed from the compile farm."
10:21:14  <Osai> strange
10:21:20  <Osai> I missed that in my RSS reader
10:21:37  <Osai> but thx
10:22:01  <XeryusTC> why? the universal binary works on both
10:22:11  <Osai> sure
10:22:15  <Osai> but its much bigger
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10:30:47  <Wolf01> seem like 2 photos, but it is only one O_O
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10:54:37  <peter1138> Wolf01: weird
10:55:01  <peter1138> but then, telephoto lenses do that
10:56:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> screw up depth perception?
10:57:17  <peter1138> yeah
11:00:17  <Fingon> it could also be two stitched images, each with different focus
11:01:11  <peter1138> it's just from a long distance
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12:12:37  <MrDowntempo> How do I build a tunnel like this one?
12:12:58  <MrDowntempo> where the sides are walls and not slopes
12:13:49  <MrDowntempo> I've got the rest of that junction built, but the tunnel has me stumped
12:15:23  <peter1138> just lower the land at the appropriate points
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12:17:24  <MrDowntempo> Right, but I can't lower the land and leave walls there, When I lower land it makes adjacent tiles slopes
12:17:51  <Roest> then you build the track and voila...
12:17:51  <peter1138> it won't if you have rails built on them
12:18:04  <MrDowntempo> Oh I see, I got it working
12:18:05  <peter1138> or indeed build the rails on afterwards
12:18:52  <Alberth> any one for an animated png file? :)
12:23:47  <cjk> MrDowntempo: a tt-deluxe invention if I remember right
12:23:57  <cjk> or maybe even openttd
12:24:09  <MrDowntempo> Yeah, I'm using openttd. lovin' it =)
12:24:31  <MrDowntempo> Do factories require livestock, grain, AND steel before they make goods?
12:24:38  <cjk> no, just one thing
12:24:45  <MrDowntempo> cool thanks
12:24:56  <cjk> in subtropical, they take copper instead... funy enough
12:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... the colours of the rails in that picture hurt my head
12:30:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> and the curves are way too sharp
12:35:28  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause3: It is a *compact* 3-way
12:35:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> doesn't matter, it can be improved without using more space
12:36:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> or using very little more space
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12:43:43  <Alberth> anybody know what caused cpp_gui branch to be stopped (more specific than KUDr not being happy about it)?
12:44:44  <peter1138> kudr?
12:45:10  <peter1138> branches don't work with openttd
12:45:19  <peter1138> because we usually end up rewriting things
12:46:56  <Alberth> you mean the changes become too large
12:48:00  <Alberth> that's what I am seeing in the branch, it seems. Very general and big widget structures.
12:49:11  <Belugas> KUDr was not happy with the result.  he mentionned once that it shold be rewritten
12:49:18  <Belugas> so it was an attempt
12:49:31  <Belugas> a branch does not always lead to merge
12:49:39  <Belugas> even for devs :)
12:50:13  <Alberth> I am writing a strategy for improving the windowing code (FS#1905), so I'd like to understand what went wrong the previous time.
12:50:32  <peter1138> no, i don't mean changes become too large
12:50:57  <peter1138> i guess you could say we're not very good at planning
12:51:08  <peter1138> newstations was rewritten at least once
12:51:20  <Belugas> planning ? watzdad?
12:51:57  <Alberth> Usually a piece of paper that your boss uses to smack you around the head ;)
12:55:10  <Alberth> So the problem was not with the changes in the branch itself, but more with other changes in the code? (peter1138: I don't get what you means with 'planning')
12:55:51  <Alberth> I understand that with complex changes, you try a few times before you get it right.
13:02:19  <peter1138> right
13:02:32  <peter1138> i haven't actually looked at the cpp_gui branch
13:03:00  <glx> IIRC KUDr said he didn't like what he had done
13:05:23  <MrDowntempo> I have a passenger train that also pickups goods before hitting one destination. The destination is also a truck stop and it is the truck that brings the goods to a station that accepts goods. I have the train set to unload for the truck, but does that prevent it from picking up passengers?
13:08:36  <Alberth> Hmm, ok. So it seems there is not one specific thing that I should watch out for. (instead I get to watch out for all things that can go wrong I am afraid ;) ). Tnx all for the information.
13:08:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> MrDowntempo: yeah, that won't work well
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13:09:15  <Roujin> hi there
13:09:25  <MrDowntempo> Eddi|zuHause3: Is there a better solution, preferably not requiring 2 trains
13:09:33  <Alberth> I'll let you know when I have my description ready. I hope you can give me some feedback on it then.
13:09:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think so
13:10:18  <MrDowntempo> I wish I could set unload for certain cargo types
13:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> the new order system might be extendible for that
13:11:10  <MrDowntempo> What does transfer do?
13:11:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> gives you "virtual" income for half-delivered goods
13:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's what you want to do with the goods, but the passengers won't be delivered that way
13:13:39  <Roujin> is it time consuming to allocate stuff?
13:14:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> allocating should be O(1), initialising O(n)
13:14:54  <Roujin> I'm currently working on a new version of my traffic lights that needs a function to determine which is the tile with lowest TileIndex in a traffic light consist
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13:16:19  <Roujin> in this function, i'm kind of building a sorted list of a struct containing one TileIndex and two pointers to other instances of this struct
13:16:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> why not use std::list or something?
13:17:39  <Roujin> hmm i kind of need a special list, i don't think it exists by default
13:17:55  <Roujin> I'm doing something like a breadth first search..
13:18:53  <cjk> in a list? :P
13:19:07  <Roujin> no, over tiles
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13:19:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> how about you tell us what you are REALLY doing
13:21:16  <Roujin> ok, I start at one tile with a traffic light and my goal is to get the lowest TileIndex of the traffic light consist
13:21:30  <Roujin> traffic light consist means multiple tiles with traffic lights next to each other
13:21:50  <Roujin> theoretically, you could have a traffic light consist over all tiles on the map (except some water at the border)..
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13:22:49  <Roujin> so, i start at my starting tile, and check each 4 directions next to it. if a traffic light is found, it is added to the end of the list
13:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> you mean like in a 2x2 road crossing you want to get the top corner
13:23:14  <Roujin> yeah, for example
13:24:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> and then you want to sort for TileIndex
13:24:46  <Roujin> now i have not only one order on the list (the order in which the tiles got added), but also a second order: this one is sorted by TileIndex
13:25:14  <Roujin> no, i automatically sort for TileIndex while building the list..
13:25:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> why do you need to keep the insertion order?
13:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> don't do that
13:25:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> sorting in the end is faster
13:25:42  <Roujin> hmm
13:26:11  <Roujin> well the point is..
13:26:27  <Roujin> i have to strike out duplications while building the list
13:26:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> "insertion sort" (like you do with cards dealt to you) is O(n^2), any "sane" sorting algorithm is O(nlogn)
13:26:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> so you want a set
13:27:27  <Roujin> yes, basically
13:27:34  <Noldo> std:set
13:27:36  <Noldo> ::
13:29:44  <Roujin> well my thought was, to strike out duplications, if it is unsorted, i have to go through the whole list for each entry, but if it's sorted, i only have to go up to the TileIndex i want to insert to make sure it's not a duplicate..
13:30:21  <Roujin> so, std::set is my best choice you say?
13:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, std::set will do that for you
13:31:15  <Roujin> is it sorted or unsorted?
13:31:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i repeat my question from above
13:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> why do you need to keep the insertion order?
13:31:50  <Roujin> because else the breadth first search algorithm doesn't know when it's finished..?
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13:32:05  <Alberth> Roujin: sorted on < of the elements, but since it automatically eliminates duplicates, maybe you don't need sorting?
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13:32:50  <Roujin> Alberth: i still need to find the lowest TileIndex in the set
13:33:26  <Alberth> Roujin: so have < decide on the tile index, and then take the front (iirc)
13:33:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> so have two sets, one set of visited nodes, and one set of candidate nodes
13:33:58  <Roujin> yes, that's probably the best solution..
13:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> you take an element from the candidate set, check if it is already in the visited set
13:34:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> if yes, drop it
13:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> if no, put it into the visited set, and put the neighbours in the candidate set
13:34:29  <Alberth> couldn't you simply recursively add elements, and stop recursing when the element is already in the set?
13:34:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> Alberth: that won't work
13:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> because you can approach the same tiles from several directions
13:35:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> just that you visit a tile twice does not mean you visited all tiles alread
13:35:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> y
13:35:25  <Alberth> it gets added only once
13:36:01  <Alberth> true, but you have a recursive call in progress that will do that eventually
13:36:35  <Alberth> ie for each tile not in the set, add it, and recurse to all its neighbours
13:36:57  <Alberth> (where adding and testing is 1 operation)
13:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> but that is a depth-first search ;)
13:38:04  <Alberth> true
13:38:23  <Alberth> Roujin: why do you want a breadth-first algorithm?
13:38:38  <Roujin> okay, now the question over that all is, is it actually sane to to this each time something wants to know the state of a traffic light? (that's e.g. every time it should be drawn!)
13:39:10  <Alberth> i'd bet no ;)
13:39:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> Roujin: probably rather store the state in the tile, and have an update function
13:39:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> like with the signals
13:40:16  <Roujin> erm... it could be depth first as well i guess, if it gets me the lowest tileindex - i just found breadth first to be more intuitive or something
13:41:06  <Roujin> Eddi: actually I had the state in the tile first, but then removed it to reduce usage of the tile map...
13:41:15  <Roujin> which is actually full for roads
13:43:45  <Roujin> now i only use one bit in the map array (is there a traffic light? yes/no) and compute the state by gametick every time it's requested...
13:50:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can build an off-map cache
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13:51:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> just make sure it's multiplayer safe (i.e. deterministic)
13:53:54  <Roujin> you can build an off-map cache <-- how do you mean that?
13:54:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> means you initialise a data structure (e.g. pool) and store the information there
13:54:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> and not put it in the map array
13:55:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> like a hash table
13:55:47  <Roujin> hmm
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14:05:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, and you might want to read up on "union find" structures, it might help your cause, too
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14:21:39  <Roujin> i have to free the set after use right?
14:22:27  <Roujin> [name].~set() ?
14:23:50  <glx> if you used new, then use delete
14:24:42  * Belugas mumbles
14:25:47  <Belugas> there is a sticker/brand/whatever from my shirt irritating the skin on my shoulder :(
14:25:53  <Belugas> got to reap it out
14:26:04  <peter1138> tag
14:26:50  <Belugas> tag...thanks.. yeah
14:31:17  <Alberth> I just added my plans of changing the windowing code to, I'd like some feedback plz
14:31:43  <cjk> ~set? wtf..
14:32:02  <cjk> delete [name];
14:32:46  * cjk is in a temporal displacement field
14:32:49  <Roujin> yes yes that was bull. i realized after i wrote it
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14:33:10  <Roujin> i keep forgetting basic stuff -_-
14:33:16  <cjk> also because you would want [name]->~set()  iff it went that way :)
14:33:28  <cjk> -> not .
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14:42:00  <cjk> is there a way to convert desert to green land in subtropical?
14:42:33  <Belugas> in scenario editor yes, in game play no
14:43:08  <cjk> lowering the land so that water flows through the desert is only one square :)
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14:43:44  <Pug> could anyone help me out with running 2 windows open ttd servers on the same machine?
14:44:05  <Pug> first one is up and running, but now i want another one running on the same machine
14:44:10  <Pug> but with diff. config file
14:44:19  <peter1138> changed the port?
14:44:29  <Pug> yes, i did that already
14:45:02  <peter1138> that's all the help i can give, heh
14:45:14  <Pug> hm, well in ur windows machine theres a folder called Open
14:45:21  <Pug> OpenTDD in my documents folder
14:45:37  <Pug> there is a file ( opentdd.cfg ) where it reads the config
14:45:39  <Belugas> UR -> OUR
14:45:50  <Pug> ?
14:46:00  <Belugas> [10:44] <Pug> hm, well in ur windows machine theres a folder called Open
14:46:03  <Belugas> OUR
14:46:23  <Pug> since when is it our windows machine?
14:46:30  <Pug> split the cost?
14:46:35  <peter1138> ur?
14:46:40  <Pug> ur = your
14:46:47  <peter1138> oh
14:47:06  <Pug> its straat language
14:47:13  <Pug> ive been in ny for 4 years
14:47:16  <Pug> hehe
14:47:25  <Belugas> see? without proper english, it's leading to confusion
14:47:26  <peter1138> this is not 'ny'
14:47:42  <Belugas> staat???
14:47:47  <Belugas> straat even
14:47:51  <peter1138> anyway? why does my windows machine have anything to do with it?
14:48:03  <Pug> well, i was explaining something
14:48:08  <Pug> try to read better :-/
14:48:20  <peter1138> try to spell better :-\
14:48:41  <peter1138> so yes, there is a configuration file
14:48:54  <peter1138> copy the configuration file and make it start with that
14:49:17  <peter1138> openttd -c /path/to/config style
14:49:33  <Pug> ah, k
14:49:40  <Pug> ill try that
14:49:41  <Belugas> k?
14:49:46  <Belugas> KMart?
14:49:53  <Belugas> ketaine?
14:49:54  <Pug> got nothing better to do Belugas?
14:49:56  <Belugas> Kellogs?
14:50:02  <peter1138> kellogg's ;)
14:50:05  <Belugas> lol
14:50:25  <Roest> chocopops
14:50:36  <Belugas> Pug, guessing your words is not a fun thing to do, i'd say
14:50:40  <peter1138> i'm glad we have roads here instead of streets
14:51:22  <Belugas> i've guessed that straat means street, which implies that you're using the street language and NewYork in an internaltional channel who do not know what is that language
14:51:25  <Pug> i would?
14:52:03  <Pug> eerm
14:52:12  <Pug> almost everyone one knows whats k and ur
14:52:16  <Pug> k is shortcut to ok
14:52:25  <Pug> and if i say, aah k ill try that
14:52:26  <Roest> alberth !!!
14:52:29  <Pug> you must know that i meant ok
14:52:34  <peter1138> k is fine by me
14:52:37  <Belugas> no, i must not
14:52:39  <Alberth> Roest!!!
14:52:40  <peter1138> 'ur' can bugger off though
14:52:46  <Roest> we're one step closer
14:52:59  <Pug> hm, ive seen many people using the shortcut ur
14:52:59  <Alberth> :-D
14:53:09  <peter1138> lots of people are fucking idiots too
14:53:13  <SpComb> k
14:53:39  <Pug> so, what you are saying is that im an idiot?
14:53:51  <Roest> hehe
14:54:06  * Roest sits back and watches where this is leading to
14:54:57  <Rubidium> yapdopfw
14:55:04  <Belugas> Pug, not at all.  just that you are using something under the assumption it is used and understood everywhere
14:55:12  <Belugas> which is far from been the case
14:55:33  <peter1138> omgwtfbbq
14:55:55  * Rubidium 'ld like a ottdbbq ;)
14:56:04  <peter1138> nah, not barbecue weather yet
14:56:16  <Pug> where are you from then peter1138
14:56:24  <Pug> here in hollands it will be sunny next week
14:56:34  <Pug> 22°
14:56:44  <Rubidium> that's freezing
14:56:48  <Pug> lol
14:56:52  <Pug> not for the netherlands
14:56:57  <peter1138> UK
14:57:07  <Pug> max. temprature here is around 30 ~ 32°
14:57:09  <peter1138> should be around 25 for a barbecue :)
14:57:21  <Roest> i'm getting impatient, when is this global warming thing gonna reach me
14:57:23  <peter1138> any warmer and it's time to stay indoors with the airconditioning on
14:57:40  <Celestar> wtf
14:57:47  <Celestar> I just got a server offer for 700 bucks per server
14:58:02  <Celestar> what kind of crappy hardware is that supposed to be?
14:58:13  <Pug> well where never satisfied, if its winter its to cold, when its summer its to hot
14:58:16  <Rubidium> Celestar: per week?
14:58:39  <Pug> Celestar, i rented a few dedicated servers in germany
14:58:44  <Pug> bandwich etc. is cheap there to
14:58:50  <Pug> and great hardware
14:59:00  <Celestar> Rubidium: Pug: not per week. for the whole server.
14:59:01  <peter1138> Roest: gulf stream gets upset and gives us cooler weather (or something)
14:59:22  <peter1138> some other servers can be cheap but still good
14:59:26  <Rubidium> Celestar: still 70 times more expensive than my current server ;)
14:59:26  <Celestar> lol 12 months send-in warranty
14:59:57  <Belugas> that's our fault!  gulf stream is getting all our cold water from snow melting :D
15:00:01  <Pug>
15:00:04  <Pug> i got this one
15:00:28  <Pug> including 25 TB bandwich
15:00:42  <Celestar> nice server
15:00:43  <Roest> anyway i saw yesterday 2GB RAM is down to 49 euro, guess i'm going 4GB soon
15:01:11  <Pug> Roest i think you are from the netherlands
15:01:30  <Pug> you can order a ram kitt on the internet ( ) 4GB Kingston for 75 euro
15:01:36  <Pug> 4 x 1 GB
15:01:46  <Celestar> yeah
15:01:53  <peter1138> 2 GB sticks are expensive :o
15:01:59  <peter1138> or were
15:02:01  <cjk> I want a KITT too!!
15:02:04  <Pug> special action becouse norrod exists for 10 year
15:02:26  <Roest> netherlands, that's where the flowertrucks and mobile homes blocking the left lanes on our highways come from
15:02:40  <peter1138> hmm, not that bad any more
15:02:40  <Pug> rofl
15:02:44  <Pug> so your from belgium
15:02:46  <peter1138> £60 for 4GB
15:03:01  <peter1138> hmm, £50 actually
15:03:07  <Pug> bleh, 60 pounds is like 100 euro
15:03:16  <peter1138> i have no idea
15:03:33  <Pug> im renting a server at 27.50 pound a month ( gta server ) thats 36 euro
15:03:34  <peter1138> shipping everything to this remote country is obviously expensive
15:04:04  <peter1138> 1GB is £10, heh
15:04:12  <Celestar> lol
15:04:30  <cjk> 60 pounds is like 27 kg
15:05:05  * Roest throws metric system for dummies at cjk
15:05:26  <Pug> lol
15:06:10  <cjk> see what problems the old imperial system has
15:06:19  *** Neo [] has joined #openttd
15:06:30  <Neo> hi@all
15:06:54  <Neo> i have problems with creating a server
15:07:23  <Neo> do i have to open any ports on my router, and if what ports do i have to open
15:07:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> <cjk> I want a KITT too!! <- they made a Knight Industries Three Thousand
15:08:41  <Belugas> @openttd ports
15:08:41  <DorpsGek> Belugas: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
15:08:49  <Belugas> there you go Neo
15:09:18  <Pug> :)
15:09:32  <Pug> usefull if you dont know how to
15:09:52  <Pug>
15:09:58  <Pug> link thats alive lol
15:09:59  <Belugas> Pug, server not found :)
15:10:05  <Pug> i noticed :D
15:10:26  <Pug> almost every router config can be found here
15:10:30  <cjk> is a multiplayer game paused as long as a client tries to join?
15:10:43  <Pug> and for a few dollar you can download a program that will auto update your router with the new port settings
15:10:49  <cjk> just in case downloading the map takes "too long" to download
15:11:00  <Pug> as far as i know cjk, yes
15:11:23  <cjk> meh that would mean you can DoS an openttd server just by joining a million times
15:11:48  <Pug> tell me a server you cant ddos
15:11:49  <Pug> :D
15:12:33  <Pug> but, i dont think people will do that, or are smart enough to understand how to
15:12:57  <Pug> ive never seen it happen
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15:14:09  <Alberth> thgergo: In "cantilever11w.grf" there is a spelling error "Cantilever Bidge Renewal", the 'r' in Bidge seems to be missing
15:14:36  <Roest> yea seems, now how can we verify it
15:14:51  *** roboboy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:14:55  <Alberth> you want a screen shot?
15:15:11  <Ammler> Alberth: that grf will be obsolete with TBR
15:15:18  <Roest> but then, maybe it's intentional
15:15:18  <Ammler> (Total Bridge Renewal)
15:15:44  <peter1138> cjk: it can be turned off, but then you get problems connecting
15:15:47  <Ammler> already a alpha release available
15:15:47  <Neo> pug, I've forwarded these ports but if some add my server, ottd tells him that my server is offline
15:15:52  <Roest> which will be obsolete with STBRE
15:16:28  <Pug> are you behind a router or firewall?
15:16:33  <Pug> and what modem are you using
15:16:34  <Neo> both
15:16:35  <Alberth> Ammler: ok, I'll do some testing then :)
15:16:37  <Rubidium> Neo: is the server shown on ?
15:16:44  <Pug> disable firewall, or allow your ottd connection
15:16:59  <Pug> and be sure your machine has access to you outgoing IP
15:19:01  <Neo> it is not shown at
15:19:27  <Rubidium> Neo: then there's something wrong with your (local) network configurations
15:19:38  <Rubidium> (firewalls, routers and such)
15:21:14  <Rubidium> as long as a server doesn't show up within a minute after starting on, then there's a local issue with the network configuration
15:21:57  <Neo> but what is wrong, ports are open, ottd is allowed to communicate with the internet and to act as a server
15:23:32  <Neo> do you have any idears
15:23:42  *** |Jeroen| [] has joined #openttd
15:23:47  <Rubidium> sadly enough I don't have a clue what could be specifically wrong
15:24:10  <Neo> ok thanks anyway
15:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause3>
15:28:34  <peter1138> lost in translation
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15:33:46  <Roest> anyone able to compile this or did he screw up the patch?
15:36:53  <peter1138> he hasn't changed source.list
15:38:21  *** [1]Roujin [] has joined #openttd
15:38:29  <peter1138> and then it doesn't compile
15:39:32  <peter1138> s/stricmp/strcmp/g
15:40:06  *** Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:40:32  <Roest> guess it's back to my work related stuff then
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15:44:19  <Belugas> lunch time is getting closer :D
15:44:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> wah, i can't do _anything_ today...
15:45:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> it should be forbidden to work on fridays, when thursday is a holiday
15:45:51  <peter1138> everything after the comma is unnecessary
15:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> "wah" :p
15:46:25  <Belugas> [11:44] <Eddi|zuHause3> it should be forbidden to work
15:46:33  <Belugas> that's enough for me :)
15:49:27  *** Pug [] has quit []
15:51:17  <peter1138> :D
15:55:49  *** shodan [] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting]
16:01:30  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
16:03:32  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
16:05:21  <peter1138> DO YOU REALISE
16:05:24  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
16:05:36  <peter1138> THIS WORLD
16:05:57  <Belugas> IS TOTALLY FUGAZY
16:06:01  <Belugas> I(
16:07:09  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:11:59  *** Roujin [] has joined #openttd
16:13:23  *** [1]Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:20:01  *** Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:40:02  <Sacro> <- check out the right column
16:42:10  *** Slowpoke [] has joined #openttd
16:51:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> ...right...
16:51:44  *** HerzogDeXtE1 [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
16:54:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> he's kind of late on the 1st april thing...
16:58:28  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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16:59:52  <Roest> lol
16:59:56  *** dR3x4cK [] has quit []
17:00:32  <Roest> eddi that's no 1st april thing
17:01:31  *** echinos [brian@] has joined #openttd
17:01:53  <echinos> Great game, love it!
17:02:00  <Roest> but?
17:02:11  <echinos> uhhh....
17:02:21  <echinos> but I suck at it so far?
17:02:28  <echinos> that's allI can come upwith
17:03:25  <echinos> the game ismoving too fast for me at the moment...need to learn to play more efficiently
17:04:05  <Belugas> you know waht they say: practive makes perfect
17:04:28  <Belugas> -v+c
17:06:14  <echinos> the first few times I played I was running out of money, before I discovered that hauling distance makes more cash
17:09:39  *** thgergo [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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17:20:26  *** mynetdude|Away is now known as mynetdude
17:28:56  <nicfer> how can I make a town owned road one way?
17:29:34  <glx> there's a switch to enable it IIRC
17:29:38  <nicfer> I can't destroy it because its 'locked'
17:29:44  <nicfer> I am on a MP server
17:29:56  <glx> ask the owner
17:30:41  *** yorick [] has joined #openttd
17:32:20  <nicfer> he isn't on the server
17:32:29  *** glx [] has quit [Quit: bye]
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17:37:10  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
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17:46:34  <echinos> I imagine some of you in here have built some pretty hefty networks
17:47:02  <echinos> do you use build while paused, or turn off AI players so theydon't get in the way?
17:52:21  <SpComb> or disabled AI players completely
17:53:45  <peter1138> sandbox, yes
17:53:51  <peter1138> or MP
17:54:01  <peter1138> with like-minded competitors
17:54:25  * SpComb only ever plays "sandbox" or co-op
17:55:01  * yorick agrees with SpComb
17:55:39  <yorick> I turn AI players off, play NoAI, or use the trolly ai to see some better roads than the original AI makes
17:56:36  <yorick> and if I play with AIs, I usually switch to them using the player-switch cheat to make them less stupid, or to build some tracks so they don't go bankrupt, which they usually remove
17:59:14  <mynetdude> lol
17:59:20  <mynetdude> whats "sandbox"?
17:59:27  <mynetdude> I mean I know its a testing/playground
17:59:34  <mynetdude> yeah I like to play co-op :)
18:00:04  <mynetdude> I had a chance to read about PBS... I liked the way PBS works and at the same time NPF wished we could have both
18:00:07  <mynetdude> at the same time...
18:01:19  <yorick> "sandbox" is just playing without ai, and maybe even cheating yourself some money, so you can just build nice networks, with build-while-pause, engines won't be gone very soon
18:01:41  <yorick> and you can't really crash any trains while paused :p
18:04:04  <echinos> i've done that a few times
18:04:27  <echinos> but usually becuase I told a train to ignore a signal while I was trying to unclog a gridlock
18:04:47  <echinos> crashed trains, I mean
18:06:03  <yorick> with YAPP, you have some better chances on crashing trains, like when removing a piece of track, so trains choose another path, with other trains on it, or trains reversing on tracks, causing them to drive thru the PBS signall from the back, and crash on the train that's waiting there
18:06:57  <echinos> normally trains won't go backwards thru a normal one-way signl, correct?
18:07:35  <yorick> yes, but YAPP also has pass-from-behind signals, to allow bidirectional tracks
18:15:29  <Roest> yorick dont talk nonsense
18:15:41  <Roest> trains dont crash
18:16:17  <cjk> eh
18:16:18  <cjk> :)
18:16:24  <cjk> trains can crash into each other though
18:17:03  <Belugas> they can?  urghh... so... realistic :(
18:17:09  <yorick> Roest, shut up, you'll ruin my theories!
18:17:12  <yorick> :)
18:17:37  <Roest> belugas we need a new catastrophy, sheep in tunnels
18:18:00  <yorick> yes, we also need collapsing tunnels
18:18:01  <Belugas> i've got one in preparation that willpiss off a lot of people ;D
18:18:04  *** nicfer [~chatzilla@] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 3.0b5/2008032620]]
18:18:18  <cjk> HAHA
18:18:20  <echinos> What about derailments?
18:18:28  <cjk> how about bombers inside trains
18:18:47  <Roest> btw anyone here good with opengl?
18:18:52  <Roest> not you cjk
18:18:54  <cjk> anyone good here with asking metaquestions?
18:19:01  <cjk> Roest: oh well, me somewhat yes
18:19:06  * echinos points
18:19:08  <Ammler> someone here?
18:19:16  <cjk> Roest: as long as it's not wx :)
18:19:24  <yorick> and we need derailments, trains ignoring signals, bomb terrorist attacks on aircraft & airports, destroyed oil pipelines, floods, ...
18:19:36  <cjk> yorick: oil pipelines are missing though
18:19:36  <Roest> got myself a little blending problem here
18:19:51  <echinos> There was a small derailment on the real railroad near my house recently
18:19:54  <echinos> nothing serious tho
18:19:58  <cjk> Roest: camera too far into the object?
18:20:06  <Roest> nope
18:20:12  <yorick> yes, thats why we need oil pipelines first
18:20:14  <cjk> so what do I actually see
18:20:25  <cjk> yorick: awesome. that would alleviate the railroad cost
18:20:27  <echinos> They put some grain cars on a little-used siding and they left the track
18:20:30  <Roest> a 3d texture mapped to 3 quads
18:20:49  <Roest> it's a mri brain scan if it isnt obvious
18:20:52  <Vikthor> yorick: You forgot Greenpeace and co. trying to ban to noisy or too poluting traffic :D
18:21:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Roest> eddi that's no 1st april thing <- i know the context, but the kind of entry does match some of the 1st april stuff going around
18:21:07  * cjk tries to remember what a quad was
18:21:11  <cjk> GL_QUAD?
18:21:15  <Roest> lol
18:21:17  <Roest> yea
18:21:27  <echinos> Roest: are you making a DICOM viewer!?
18:21:44  <yorick> some 4-weeled bicycle, cjk?
18:21:59  <Roest> echinos yea kinda
18:22:19  <echinos> Roest: I'm a PACS admin ;)
18:22:32  <cjk> yorick: just wait until you see GL_QUAD_STRIP
18:23:21  <Roest> it wont be a big project, that's just the basis for my thesis
18:23:55  <cjk> Roest: somehow it looks normal for a quad
18:24:16  <cjk> what's actually wrong?
18:24:33  <Roest> well the area around the brain has an alpha of zero so it should be look through which works correct for the last drawn quad
18:25:13  <echinos> I like the 3-plane cutaway view
18:25:40  <cjk> the main image does not look like a brain at all
18:25:47  <cjk> more like some pixel accumulation
18:26:14  <HMage> does anyone know a music player for X that supports AAC+ radio streaming?
18:26:19  <Roest> :P
18:26:22  <cjk> HMage: gmplayer :p
18:26:40  <HMage> gmplayer? *looks at debiab reps*
18:27:26  <cjk> ok I never said it was pretty...
18:27:37  <HMage> debian*
18:28:30  <Roest> i need to kill a person using the forums
18:28:52  * yorick ?
18:29:05  <echinos> tall order
18:29:23  <Roest> draakon
18:29:25  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: mikl]
18:29:26  <Fingon> try #assassins
18:29:54  <Roest> damn i'm the only one in #assassin, guess they hide pretty good
18:30:52  * yorick just read and now reads this, was in the illusion this was just another quote :(
18:30:56  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
18:31:06  <Roest> belugas give me permission to be insulting and condescending please
18:31:24  <yorick> can't orudge do that?
18:31:25  <mikl> general permission?
18:31:31  <cjk> Roest: what if you draw each quad on its own?
18:31:44  <Belugas> You have my blessing, my son
18:31:49  <Roest> cjk elaborate?
18:32:10  <cjk> since I dunno what the result should be looking like, I have too few suggestions
18:33:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> HMage: i have no real idea what is special about an "AAC+ Radio Stream", but Amarok has support for radio streams
18:33:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> might depend on some KDE libs
18:34:25  <echinos> wow... seems that airplanes can make a lotof cash
18:34:35  <echinos> I have never bothered with them yet
18:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> planes are boring
18:35:37  <Roest> palnes are too cheap for the amount of cash they generate
18:36:06  <echinos> well, I would use the cash to build better train networks ;)
18:36:10  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause3: do you know, is amarok available for windows already?
18:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, they did a test release of Amarok 2, i don't know how useable that is yet
18:37:56  <Roest> cjk i pm'ed you
18:38:32  <Eddi|zuHause3>
18:38:52  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause3: just googled also a little
18:39:02  <Ammler>
18:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's not like i am particularly interested in windows :p
18:40:06  <Ammler> indeed, but I gave up to tell others using an other OS
18:44:23  <cjk> Roest: i pm'ed back
18:44:39  <Belugas> Roest, you failed miserably at being insulting nor condescending!
18:44:50  <Belugas> right has been therefor revocated
18:44:54  <Belugas> or whatever
18:44:59  <Belugas> the correct word :)
18:45:55  <Roest> belugas i know :( there's too much politeness in me
18:46:11  <Belugas> after a while, it will pass :D
18:46:32  <Roest> i really want to though, he annoys for quite a while now
18:48:21  <cjk> I've created some scenario, but playing it does not start the computer AI. Ideas?
18:48:45  <cjk> hmph, ai count is 0 :-/
18:49:35  <Belugas> maybe it was specified when you made the scenarios?
18:49:45  <Belugas> remember, settings are saved in scenarios too
18:49:54  <cjk> well in that case..
18:50:23  <cjk> well now one AI appeared after I changed the setting in Difficulty options
18:50:31  <cjk> so far so good (without recreating the scenario)
18:50:55  <echinos> I think I'll spectate some MP games to get some tips :)
18:51:08  <cjk> well, mp games may also do it wrong :>
18:51:20  <cjk> hey just tell me on which one you watch, maybe we can exchange
18:52:06  <echinos> I picked a random one just now...
18:52:28  <cjk> and its name was ... :>
18:52:40  <cjk> usually you pick those with ... players in it
18:52:51  <echinos> don't remember, is there a way to tell once you're in it?
18:53:42  <yorick> not that I know of
18:53:53  <cjk>  /info or some kind in the ottd console?
18:54:29  <yorick> look at the client list, one of the things has a label "server", whats its name?
18:54:37  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
18:55:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> console: "server_name", "server_ip" maybe
18:55:19  <yorick> those are server-only ;)
18:55:30  <echinos> GT
18:55:51  <cjk> as is server_info :(
18:56:11  <yorick> playing with 0.6 or 0.6.1-RC1?
18:56:16  <cjk> 0.6.0
18:56:17  <echinos> command only available on a network server :/
18:56:22  <cjk> I tried 0.6.1, all server were 'red' :p
18:56:30  <cjk> echinos: just tell me the date
18:56:35  <echinos> oh, well, you pick another and let me know
18:56:47  <echinos> this one is not too interesting
18:56:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> compatible server versions should be at the top of the list
18:57:05  * Roest wants to spectate on some ttdcoop game but those guys use soem starnge revisions
18:57:08  <cjk> hard 512x128  from finland maybe..
18:57:32  <echinos> this one is jul 1984
18:57:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> last i heard they were using some patched versions with YAPP and tracksharing
18:57:38  <yorick> Roest,
18:57:38  <echinos> 17th
18:57:47  <yorick> Eddi, that is .dev ;)
18:57:52  <Roest> using linux
18:57:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> whatever
18:58:13  <cjk> what sucks is that it seems like no one is >2050
18:59:46  <cjk> and there's tons of servers which don't have appropriate upload speeds
18:59:54  <echinos> cjk: you find a server you like?
19:00:06  <cjk> i'm on that finland thing currently
19:00:19  <cjk> calls itself "Hard 512x128"
19:00:22  <Sacro> finland finland finland...
19:00:30  <cjk> horrible ping tho :p
19:01:11  *** Roest [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:01:14  <cjk> i should run an own one, just for other's fun :p
19:02:02  <echinos> cjk: ok, I'm coming in
19:02:02  <mynetdude> yeah I'd probably like to run a server as well... but I can't seem to get openttd to be seen by anybody
19:02:11  <cjk> "Player" haha
19:02:43  <yorick> have server_advertise on, mynetdude?
19:03:11  <echinos> cjk: yep, that's me
19:03:12  <mynetdude> how do I check?
19:03:13  <echinos> ;)
19:03:36  <echinos> cjk: that's a pretty crowded map
19:03:53  <mynetdude> yorick, how do I check?
19:04:07  <cjk> echinos: nah... just too much water
19:04:10  <yorick> console: "patch server_advertise"
19:04:29  <cjk> echinos: apparently it's a crafted scenario
19:04:36  <echinos> does bussing passnegers to your train stations helpa lot with profit?
19:04:44  <yorick> yes
19:04:53  <mynetdude> yorick, a friend of mine has ottd 060 and he didn't have to go into console to make his server advertise
19:04:57  <yorick> with transfer, as long as they aren't waiting there too long
19:04:59  <cjk> i'd just nuke the town and put a rail station in it :>
19:05:07  <yorick> who's that friend?
19:05:16  <mynetdude> yorick, do I have to be in a game to load console?
19:05:22  <yorick> yes
19:05:28  <yorick> is that server currently running?
19:05:29  <mynetdude> yorick, some cool dude I've known for 5 years lives in Germany :)
19:05:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> echinos: with passenger destinations, that is pretty much the only way that would work ;)
19:05:47  <mynetdude> no not yet, I even tried port forwarding, and could not get my server to be shown
19:06:22  <mynetdude> yorick, how do I bring up console?
19:06:26  <yorick> try to run it, I'll see if its reachable
19:06:27  <mynetdude> server is running now
19:06:27  <echinos> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, I would think so, but I was thinking without it
19:06:37  <mynetdude> server name is "mynetdude's server"
19:06:44  <echinos> cjk: whoa look at pruningwell ridge valley
19:06:45  <yorick> port?
19:06:52  <mynetdude> default port I suppose
19:06:53  <echinos> busses galre
19:06:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> echinos: it may help, but passengers waiting at the station would totally kill your profit
19:06:55  <cjk> echinos: I know, having a rail to the oil rig is a trick
19:06:58  <mynetdude> I didn't know you can change the port number
19:07:01  <cjk> argh disconnected
19:07:04  <yorick> same pc as you run the irc-client on?
19:07:09  <mynetdude> yes
19:07:13  <mynetdude> but I have 3 computers on the network
19:07:13  <yorick> can't reach it
19:07:16  <echinos> me too
19:07:22  <yorick> then you should port-forward ;)
19:07:28  <yorick> port 3979, tcp and udp
19:07:30  <echinos> cjk: maybe they punted us spectators ;)
19:07:30  <mynetdude> I have it port forwarded
19:07:33  <cjk> pfft
19:07:35  <cjk> mynetdude: can't find it.
19:07:36  <mynetdude> let me check again
19:07:48  <yorick> @ports
19:07:48  <DorpsGek> yorick: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
19:07:52  <echinos> mynetdude: that might be the problem... port forwarding
19:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> mynetdude: make sure you really forward both protocols
19:08:24  <echinos> mynetdude: you wanna give me your IP, I'll try to telnet to the port
19:08:26  <cjk> say, does openttd use geoip or how does it find the flag for a server?
19:08:31  <yorick>
19:08:33  <mynetdude> echinos I do have it port forwarded
19:08:40  <yorick> cjk, you have to set it
19:08:48  <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause3 yes I have the router set to forward TCP/UDP
19:08:57  <echinos> mynetdude: yeah, but maybe not correctly, like with what Eddi|zuHause3 said about the other port
19:08:58  <yorick> no, you haven't
19:09:01  <yorick> I can't reach it
19:09:05  <cjk> telnet: connect to address Connection refused
19:09:25  <echinos> me too
19:09:27  * mynetdude sighs... the router only lets me pick tcp, udp or both and I have it set for both
19:09:33  <mynetdude> fine I got a better idea...
19:09:40  <cjk> add "only tcp" and "only udp"
19:09:45  <yorick> openttd: connect to server connection timed out
19:09:47  <echinos> mynetdude: do you have 3978 forwarded too?
19:10:13  <mynetdude> ah I don't have 3978 just 3979
19:10:20  <echinos> tadaaa
19:10:36  <yorick> echinos, its only needed if you're running a master server ;)
19:10:36  <echinos> but we still can't get to 3979 anyway, so that's another problem
19:10:36  <mynetdude> instead of "both" I created two different rules one for tcp and one for udp
19:10:42  <yorick> and inbound
19:10:49  <cjk> get an iptables router man :p
19:10:52  <mynetdude> maybe isp is blocking?
19:10:56  <yorick> mynetdude, have a double-router?
19:11:04  <yorick> modem that acts as a router?
19:11:10  <echinos> mynetdude: see if you can telnet to that port on your ownmachine first
19:11:21  <mynetdude> actually I can setup iptables I just don't know how
19:11:42  <mynetdude> k how do I do that?
19:12:00  <mynetdude> ok I did 3978 and 3979 for tcp and udp separately
19:12:11  <cjk> hm if you have iptables, what sort of router _do_ you have, to begin with?
19:12:35  <mynetdude> Linksys WRT54GS
19:12:41  <glx> <cjk> say, does openttd use geoip or how does it find the flag for a server? <-- the flag is the server language (set by the owner)
19:13:08  <mynetdude> how do I use telnet to connect to my server?
19:13:10  <ln> a flag for a language...
19:13:26  <mynetdude> connect to my IP:port number?
19:13:33  <yorick> mynetdude, you can't
19:13:35  <ln> yes, how convinient it would be if each language had a flag-style symbol.
19:13:44  <cjk> mynetdude: good pick
19:13:47  <yorick> ln, it does, no?
19:13:56  <mynetdude> yorick then why were they saying use telnet to connect to my port?
19:14:04  <yorick> *I wasn't*
19:14:12  <cjk> mynetdude: dd, open, or x-wrt?
19:14:20  <echinos> mynetdude: open a command prompt/terminal, and type "telnet localhost 3979" when your openttd server is running
19:14:29  <mynetdude> yorick I know you weren't
19:14:30  <yorick> echinos, did you ever try?
19:14:40  <echinos> telnet? yeah
19:14:44  <ln> yorick: what flag should be used for english, french, northern sami, esperanto?
19:14:45  <echinos> timed out
19:14:49  <mynetdude> cjk, I looked into openwrt but the only thing that will fit on my router is a miniwrt
19:14:56  <yorick> ln, find out, you can
19:15:02  <yorick> esperanto got added to trunk ;)
19:15:10  <cjk> mynetdude: eww
19:15:19  <yorick> and english and french already have a flag
19:15:43  <echinos> nmap doesn't show any open ports
19:16:05  <ln> yorick: i mean, what is the politically neutral flag for such languages?
19:16:09  <mynetdude> cjk my onboard firmware RAM is only 4MB which isn't big enough for a full featured openwrt
19:16:12  <glx> you may need to restart the router after opening the ports
19:16:23  <mynetdude> echinos telnet not doing anything
19:16:29  <cjk> 4 is massive
19:16:30  <mynetdude> just a blank screen
19:16:33  <cjk> or was it 8
19:16:40  <echinos> mynetdude: ok, well that's the first problem
19:16:45  <mynetdude> cjk, 8 is the minimum they say 16 is better
19:16:48  <cjk> hm k
19:16:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: who added the requirement of "politically neutral"?
19:16:54  <glx> mynetdude: check the server, it should notice the telnet connection
19:16:57  <ln> Eddi|zuHause3: i did.
19:16:57  <echinos> mynetdude: maybe a firewall onyour PC, or selinux or something
19:17:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> sure you did :p
19:17:13  <echinos> cjk: did you get on another server?
19:17:16  <mynetdude> glx nothing from the server
19:17:22  <cjk> echinos: no, i'm going to run my own now
19:17:25  <yorick> try to connect to your server using another client
19:17:26  <mynetdude> ahh I do have the firewall but I disabled that last time
19:17:27  <ln> Eddi|zuHause3: would it be ok to use the flag of Austria for the german language?
19:17:30  <echinos> cjk: sweet
19:17:30  <cjk> just need to figure out how to write a .cfg
19:18:07  <mynetdude> ok firewall disabled, nothing happens
19:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: or the bavarian flag? or the prussian flag?
19:18:12  <glx> ln: they don't speak the same language :)
19:19:02  <mynetdude> I don't understand why 3979 doesn't work
19:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: just add a flag for each of the ~200 countries that once made up the german speaking area
19:19:28  <mynetdude> ok I got something interesting
19:19:33  <ln> that would be good
19:20:08  * yorick thanks roest, the newgrf dragdrop is working :)
19:20:08  <mynetdude> echinos when I try to telnet localhost 3979 I get a blank screen, when I try 3978 it gives me "connecting to localhost, could not open connection to the host on port 3978 connect failed"
19:20:09  <ln> hmmmm, is Liechtenstein by any chance one of those ~200 countries, one that didn't happen to merge with others?
19:20:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: and while at it, decide if luxemburgian is an individual language [as the luxemburgians think] or a german dialect [as the EU thinks]
19:20:27  <echinos> mynetdude: the blank screen means you're connected to that port
19:20:28  <mynetdude> so something is wrong with 3979
19:20:33  <mynetdude> hmm
19:20:39  <glx> mynetdude: 3978 is an outbound port
19:20:48  <glx> used to connect to master server
19:20:48  *** valhalla1w [] has joined #openttd
19:21:07  <mynetdude> ah ok so I have a blank screen and I am connected
19:21:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: i am not particularly familiar with the history of liechtenstein
19:21:20  <yorick> is ok
19:21:29  <mynetdude> so I don't see anything...
19:21:29  <echinos> right, so your firewall isn't forwarding properly
19:21:31  <yorick> now, try executing openttd again
19:21:37  <mynetdude> my firewall is off
19:21:37  <Ammler> Belugas: what was you looking for?
19:21:39  <yorick> and connect to your server
19:21:49  <mynetdude> well I can turn port forwarding off and go DMZ
19:22:04  <yorick> and catch a virus if on windows
19:22:06  <Belugas> ?
19:22:07  <Belugas> me?
19:22:09  <Belugas> where?
19:22:11  <Belugas> when?
19:22:13  <yorick> what?
19:22:20  <ln> bjarni?
19:22:31  <mynetdude> lol... well for the test I'd go dmz
19:22:32  <yorick> IS NOT HERE
19:22:52  <cjk> oh noes
19:23:01  <cjk> I think I found some sort of bug
19:23:08  <cjk> I can't connect to my own server -.-
19:23:13  <yorick> huh?
19:23:18  <yorick> what?
19:23:20  <yorick> I can
19:23:23  <cjk> it's kinda obvious
19:23:25  <mynetdude> cjk I don't think you're supposed to be able to
19:23:27  <echinos> maybe your firewall isn't forwarding properly
19:23:29  <echinos> ;)
19:23:30  <cjk> openttd 24434 jengelh    9u  IPv4 29348364               TCP (LISTEN)
19:23:33  <yorick> but I can?
19:23:36  <cjk> who the fuck binds to
19:23:46  <mynetdude> my firewall isn't even on
19:23:57  * cjk goes fixing source code
19:24:01  <echinos> mynetdude: That was for cjk (kidding)
19:24:02  <mynetdude> lol
19:24:29  <Ammler> [21:13] <MemberZone> Belugas has joined the game
19:24:38  <Belugas> ho...
19:24:41  <mynetdude> well I am dmz'd wide open, I still can't see anything on telnet except a blank screen
19:24:51  <Ammler> wasn't you? :-)
19:24:57  <Belugas> Ammler: just... passing by... curiosity
19:24:59  <cjk> echinos: since I don't have a router, there's nothing to forward. it's a dedicated box.
19:25:15  <cjk> fun fun
19:25:21  <cjk> the default openttd.cfg contains bind_ip =
19:25:21  <mynetdude> whoa
19:25:25  <cjk> now who came up with that
19:25:25  <mynetdude> it did something different now
19:26:06  <Belugas> Ammler: i went to check ('cuase poor memory) about where is the advertise switch, found it on the Add Server Gui, went back and checked what are the games online
19:26:12  <mynetdude> hey... my blank screen is no longer blank
19:26:16  <mynetdude> it goes back to command prompt
19:26:20  <Belugas> Ammler saw one with my revision, entered
19:26:22  <Belugas> that's it :)
19:26:46  <mynetdude> echinos is that better? To go back to command prompt?
19:27:10  <Ammler> sad, then it was just accident :-)
19:27:28  <echinos> mynetdude: I'm not sure, it might be connecting and then immediately disconnecting you.. see if openttd is noticing you
19:27:32  <cjk> so
19:27:33  <yorick> mynetdude, you're not supposed to see anything on that telnet window
19:27:36  *** valhallasw [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:27:36  <cjk> let's see if it worked now
19:27:44  <mynetdude> echinos no notice at all
19:27:57  <mynetdude> yorick ok, but before it was just a blank screen, now it returns to prompt
19:28:09  <cjk> It lives!
19:28:09  <yorick> trying to type anything?
19:28:24  <yorick> no, cjk, it timeouts or disconnects!
19:28:44  <cjk> yorick: yours perhaps
19:28:52  <yorick> yes, mine
19:29:02  <mynetdude> hmm there's a difference between being dmz'd and not cuz its affecting the way my telnet is working
19:29:09  <Belugas> Ammler, i was waiting for my compliation to finish... i had a bit of a free time...
19:29:13  <mynetdude> blah nevermind
19:29:16  <mynetdude> I hate my stupid router
19:29:32  <mynetdude> what are all the ports ottd uses?
19:29:43  <yorick> 3979 inbound
19:29:58  <yorick> 3978 outbound
19:30:01  <mynetdude> and 3978 out thats it?
19:30:05  <yorick> unless you change it
19:30:25  <mynetdude> haven't changed it, but I guess I should turn on the patch advertise
19:30:36  <mynetdude> how do I open console and whats the exact command?
19:31:10  <glx> yorick: you can't change 3978 as it's the master server port
19:31:16  <yorick> I know
19:31:27  <yorick> mynetdude, try pressing ` multiple times
19:31:39  <yorick> and "server_advertise on" makes it set to on
19:31:58  <mynetdude> echinos hey it did notice me
19:32:07  <mynetdude> echinos and several others
19:33:44  <mynetdude> yorick, echinos yes ottd is seeing my connection I didn't know you could only see it in console
19:33:46  <Ammler> Belugas: did you see the transrapid tracks?
19:33:59  <mynetdude> but its saying it takes longer than 296 ticks so it drops the connection
19:34:05  <yorick> ...
19:34:16  <yorick> see, timeout, cjk }|
19:34:46  <echinos> mynetdude: ok, so now it's time to figure out the router issue
19:34:47  <mynetdude> yorick is it supposed to time out?
19:34:57  <echinos> can you telnet from another machine inside your network?
19:34:58  <yorick> when opening telnet, it is
19:35:16  <yorick> without normal client, its not
19:35:19  <mynetdude> echinos right now I disabled port forwarding, firewall is down dmz is off
19:35:30  <glx> unless you start talking to it with the right protocol
19:35:32  <mynetdude> yorick I wonder if I could run another instance of ottd and try to connect to it? :P
19:35:38  <yorick> yes, you could
19:35:51  <yorick> I'm trying to explain you to do that all the time
19:35:52  <mynetdude> that'd probably be a good idea
19:35:58  <glx> I often have 1 server and 2 clients on the same machine
19:36:11  <echinos> mynetdude: ok, so that means I won't get anything if I try to get to your IP, unless your openttd machine is straight on the internet
19:36:14  <mynetdude> yorick oh, well why didn't you just say "open another ottd and connect to your existing"
19:36:21  <yorick> I did
19:36:29  <mynetdude> yorick ah, didn't see my bad
19:36:38  <mynetdude> echinos I'm going to re-enable pf here in a sec
19:36:42  <cjk> meh
19:36:49  <cjk> the maximum limit for spectators is 11, what gives?!
19:37:09  <Belugas> Ammler : i saw tracks all around :D
19:37:14  <echinos> umm... network/cpu load issues? ;)
19:37:16  <yorick> [21:17] <yorick> try to connect to your server using another client
19:37:37  <mynetdude> yorick, ah somehow missed it
19:38:12  <cjk> echinos: it's there now
19:38:17  <cjk> as "FFA-2000"
19:38:42  <mynetdude> echinos ok port forwarding is back up doing 3978-3979 on both TCP/UDP
19:39:37  <mynetdude> hey I see my server!
19:39:44  <mynetdude> does anybody else?
19:39:49  <mynetdude> mynetdude's server
19:40:02  <yorick> I don't
19:40:12  <mynetdude> hmm ok
19:40:16  * mynetdude breaks router next :P
19:40:20  <yorick> which indicates a port-forwarding problem
19:40:24  <mynetdude> indeed
19:40:30  <mynetdude> maybe I should try port triggering
19:40:57  <yorick> what isp do you have?
19:41:06  <cjk> echinos: ..
19:41:36  <mynetdude> yorick I have a piece of crap outreach internet (local isp) that provides W-DSL
19:41:49  <Tefad> wireless?
19:41:55  <mynetdude> they like to change my IP on a regular basis even though I pay for dedicated IP service
19:42:03  <mynetdude> Tefad, correct
19:42:10  <mynetdude> its all there is here
19:42:20  <Tefad> must be really local, no rdns : x
19:42:28  <mynetdude> hehe :(
19:42:30  <Tefad> w-dsl is offered here too, but it sucks.
19:42:39  <Tefad> luckily i live in the city
19:42:41  <mynetdude> oh its so local that wikipedia has my IP blacklisted as proxy
19:42:46  <Tefad> just outside city limits
19:42:58  <Tefad> ah nice
19:43:09  <Tefad> i had BPL once (see
19:43:09  <mynetdude> but wikipedia isn't the only site that has deemed my IPs as a proxy IP
19:43:12  <yorick> proxy
19:43:33  <mynetdude> well I don't have proxy setup here on this end though
19:43:38  <Belugas> [15:34] <+glx> I often have 1 server and 2 clients on the same machine  <-- joys of debugging desynchs !
19:43:45  <glx> hehe
19:43:57  <yorick> mynetdude, your provider could have
19:44:05  <yorick> which means you can't run any kind of server
19:44:09  <yorick> what's your IP?
19:44:13  <Tefad> the generation of BPL i had was sort of like w-dsl but it was short range only. they were using unlicensed frequencies. standard 802.11g gear
19:44:14  <mynetdude> one sec
19:44:18  <yorick> from your side, which got to your router?
19:44:29  <yorick> so not things
19:44:42  <Tefad> BPL now uses gear that actually puts the signal on the power line
19:44:58  <Tefad> (before it was just wifi across pylons, hop by hop)
19:45:07  <mynetdude> yorick you mean my internal IP, thats
19:45:10  <Tefad> i had 15 hops over 7miles.
19:45:22  <yorick> no, the ip which gets assigned to your router
19:45:28  <mynetdude> oh that, one sec
19:46:11  <mynetdude> yorick, this is what I get from the router saying the IP it has from the ISP
19:46:36  <yorick> yeah, you're forced to a proxy
19:46:36  <Tefad> not a public IP
19:46:42  <Tefad> i was forced to use a proxy too
19:46:56  <yorick> for us, your IP is
19:47:00  <Tefad> if you're paying for static IP, stop. you can't actually get one : D
19:47:15  <mynetdude> Tefad maybe I should sue them
19:47:26  <Tefad> mynetdude: if you feel like it. read your service agreement
19:47:29  <mynetdude> yorick what are you saying? if it was a public IP I wouldn't be proxied?
19:47:36  <mynetdude> Tefad there is none
19:47:38  <Tefad> see if there's an arbitration clause, also look for description of service
19:47:51  <mynetdude> Tefad uh where am I going to find that?
19:47:59  <Tefad> ask them to describe the service
19:48:02  <Tefad> what does static IP mean
19:48:05  <Tefad> etc.
19:48:11  <mynetdude> kinda pointless if I'm going to move in 30 days anyway
19:48:11  <echinos> cjk: yeah?
19:48:13  * yorick has a static ip, and is proud of it :)
19:48:13  <Tefad> if they stutter.. bring in the boys.
19:48:18  <Tefad> oh, pfff
19:48:27  <Tefad> just move then
19:48:30  <cjk> echinos: heh
19:48:34  <cjk> echinos: check the server list
19:48:40  <mynetdude> so are you saying that because I don't have a public IP it is proxied anyway?
19:48:40  <echinos> okie
19:49:16  <Tefad> mynetdude: sounds like it
19:49:23  <Belugas> [15:47] * yorick has a static ip, and is proud of it :)   <--- lol... i read "...has a sarcastic IP..."
19:49:26  <Tefad> i don't know of any ISPs that do 1:1 NAT for customers
19:49:32  <Tefad> i've only seen it for dedicated machines
19:49:38  <Tefad> not consumers
19:49:49  <mynetdude> Tefad, well the reason why I paid for "static IP" was so that I could VNC into my computer, I had the basic plan and I couldn't VNC because they blocked literally every inbound port
19:50:00  <Tefad> hahaha
19:50:17  <Tefad> that's weird, maybe they forward certain ports if they know what ports you want
19:50:29  <mynetdude> Tefad so I told them to upgrade me, they said they did that to "protect" its users
19:50:34  <echinos> cjk: I'm missing it
19:50:43  <yorick> :D
19:50:47  <cjk> echinos: FFA-2000 ?
19:50:48  <mynetdude> well these guys don't know jack, but I plan to make them fall apart
19:50:52  <yorick> users on a NAT network don't need protection
19:51:01  <cjk> it's definitely there
19:51:05  <mynetdude> they have the shittiest service, I have had more downtime on this ISP in my life
19:51:14  <echinos> cjk: I'm on
19:51:22  <Tefad> yup
19:51:26  <echinos> cjk: no timeto actually play tho
19:51:27  <Tefad> BPL was full of fail too
19:51:28  <cjk> echinos: feel free to create a comp :p
19:51:33  <mynetdude> yorick well that sux... howcome I can run VNC and not ottd?
19:51:37  <echinos> cjk: later tonight, for sure
19:51:40  <Tefad> the local w-dsl here actually gives you THREE public IPs
19:51:48  <yorick> because they only forward the ports you want?
19:51:49  <Tefad> so you don't even need a router
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19:52:13  <mynetdude> yorick, maybe but... I told them I wanted to have all the ports available
19:52:21  <echinos> cjk: that map is freakin' HUGE
19:52:25  <yorick> they can't just do that on a proxy, can they?
19:52:26  <cjk> echinos: JUST 1024
19:52:31  <cjk> to give players a bit of space
19:52:31  <mynetdude> Tefad why wouldn't you need a router for 3 IPs?
19:52:43  <echinos> and the towns (metropolises?) are large ;)
19:52:45  <mynetdude> yorick I don't know, I'm not an expert in that
19:52:50  <cjk> echinos: oh?
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19:52:54  <Tefad> mynetdude: you just use a switch
19:53:06  <Tefad> however, each machine is plugged directly into the internet
19:53:14  <Tefad> you need to have GOOD firewalls on each machine.
19:53:15  <echinos> cjk: well, compared to the localgames I've played so far
19:53:16  <cjk> echinos: just 15k for the biggest town
19:53:16  <mynetdude> Tefad not if you use a switch
19:53:23  <Tefad> mynetdude: huh?
19:53:29  <cjk> echinos: well it's 2052, so...
19:53:38  <mynetdude> Tefad you said each machine is plugged directly into the internet, and thats not if they are not using a switch
19:54:12  <echinos> Tefad: you can't plug all 3 machines in with a switch unless you have 3 IPs, or a dhcp server that will give them to you
19:54:14  <mynetdude> Tefad but a w-dsl providing 3 isps would be expensive... you'd need 3 separate lines linking to the same receiver
19:54:37  <mynetdude> echinos oh ok I see what he meant
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19:54:57  <mynetdude> echinos 3 machines on 3 switches with dhcp would get those 3 public IPs... neat
19:54:57  <Tefad> are you guys in the clear now?
19:55:00  <cjk> echinos: huge map, huge proffits :)
19:55:01  <Tefad> no
19:55:08  <Tefad> one modem one switch with at least four ports
19:55:13  <Tefad> "modem" it's just a wifi AP
19:55:18  <Tefad> or client rather
19:55:31  <mynetdude> Tefad but the modem has to be connected to an internet source
19:55:37  <mynetdude> to get internet
19:55:37  <Tefad> i think the technical term is wifi ethernet bridge.
19:55:58  <Tefad> mynetdude: yes the "modem" is connected to the wifi network
19:56:05  <Tefad> the traffic in the air was live internet.
19:56:27  <Tefad> not just a random private AP
19:56:31  <mynetdude> Tefad ah thats a different way of getting w-dsl, you just use a bridge and if you're close enough to the broadcasting station or repeater you can pick up the internet
19:56:49  <Tefad> what was your method?
19:57:11  <Tefad> this w-dsl was advertised as being portable too, they sold battery packs for the "modems" to use them with laptops and the like
19:57:12  <mynetdude> Tefad we use a receiver (kinda like the ones satelites use) except they point it at a tower on a hill/mountain
19:57:39  <Tefad> ah, so yours had a directional antenna, low power
19:57:51  <Tefad> i think the one i tried was medium power, licensed
19:57:51  <mynetdude> except that they run an ethernet cable from the receiver through the wall, plug it into this tiny U shaped box which has two ethernet ports, one powers the receiver the other sends internet to the router/pc
19:58:07  <mynetdude> Tefad ah
19:58:21  <Tefad> ah, u-box was probably a PoE device
19:58:29  <mynetdude> Tefad yeah
19:58:31  <Tefad> did it have a sort of large brick to plug into the wall?
19:58:36  <mynetdude> yeah
19:58:39  * Tefad nods
19:58:40  <Tefad> neat
19:58:45  <mynetdude> its stupid kinda though
19:58:48  <Tefad> yeah these modems were rather portable
19:58:59  <mynetdude> Tefad almost like clearwire
19:59:07  <Tefad> no experience with them
19:59:10  <Tefad> this was ntelos
19:59:15  <mynetdude> actually clearwire uses almost the same kind of receiver too
19:59:27  <mynetdude> ah
19:59:47  <mynetdude> so why would an ISP pick forced proxy? equipment?
20:00:06  <mynetdude> really I'd like to sue them, just to have fun
20:00:16  <mynetdude> the question would be how much would I get out of it (or spend)
20:00:32  <echinos> cjk: you gonna build something?
20:00:37  <mynetdude> anyway
20:00:48  <mynetdude> I'll brb
20:01:09  <Tefad> mynetdude: probably close to nothing
20:01:16  <Tefad> it depends on what they were marketing it as
20:01:26  <echinos> mynetdude: an ISP would force you to go through their proxy to savethem money on bandwidth costs
20:01:28  <Tefad> and how they described the service
20:01:28  <cjk> echinos: indeed
20:01:40  <Tefad> bandwidth or IP allocation
20:01:41  <echinos> isee 'em
20:01:46  *** raimar3 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:01:52  <Tefad> if the ISP only has 16 IPs, they can't give every customer an IP
20:02:19  <Tefad> (or hell a /24, still can give every customer an IP if there's more than say 250 customers)
20:03:01  <echinos> cjk: 90 deg turns, bad boy ;)
20:03:17  <cjk> echinos: who cares, it slows down at the station anyway
20:03:43  <cjk> the fast path is when it _leaves_ the station
20:04:36  <Tefad> 90deg turns just aren't realistic
20:04:41  *** pm [] has joined #openttd
20:05:12  <cjk> as if the speed of time was realistic in ttd
20:05:34  <echinos> hehe
20:05:52  <echinos> yeah, that was my initial problem with openttd... time went too fast for me
20:06:11  *** pm [] has quit []
20:07:06  <mynetdude> Tefad I don't know how many IPs they have, but for business customers they give out IPs
20:07:33  <mynetdude> Tefad I wonder if the static IP means internal static IP rather than a random internal IP either way proxied
20:07:39  <cjk> meh this map has too many cities
20:07:48  <Tefad> mynetdude: this is why i told you to check their description ; )
20:08:01  * glx have a real static IP
20:08:02  <cjk> is there a way to kill my own company from the server?
20:09:28  <mynetdude> Tefad don't matter though I'm moving regardless... but the only way I can get a description is over the phone and even that I can't prove in a court of law anyway
20:10:46  <echinos> cjk: demolish them! ;)
20:11:11  <mynetdude> echinos we need a feature like that, on the company button that says "eradicate my company"
20:11:20  <mynetdude> and you get nothing back for it either
20:11:52  <cjk> echinos: as in?
20:12:15  <mynetdude> cjk well you know, blow up every structure you have
20:12:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> ln: this is a fairly representative map of germany ;)
20:12:18  <echinos> cjk: Iwas kidding, I don't think you can just dynamite a whole city
20:12:35  <mynetdude> echinos in simcity 4 you can
20:13:07  <cjk> mynetdude: hm there ought to be a faster way
20:13:17  <mynetdude> cjk couldn't agree with you more
20:13:25  <mynetdude> cjk just do a new game, thats fastest
20:13:28  <cjk> hm perhaps there's some admin command :p
20:14:02  <mynetdude> btw, for those that do host servers 24/7 how do you guys start a clean map?
20:14:40  <glx> what do you mean?
20:14:43  <mynetdude> otoh maybe starting a clean map is a bad idea for those who are dedicated and want to play a neverending map
20:15:10  <glx> there's an autorestart date setting
20:15:23  <mynetdude> glx I mean just what I said... all players leave for the night, new players come back in the morning, but they see the sprawling mess left behind by the last players
20:15:48  <mynetdude> glx oh you mean "game ends: 2051"
20:16:05  <glx> yes it's configurable
20:16:31  <mynetdude> glx the autorestart setting is a command setting not an option in the patch config
20:16:37  <mynetdude> ??
20:16:38  <cjk> mynetdude: you all set it in the .cfg
20:16:45  <mynetdude> oh
20:17:04  <mynetdude> can the .cfg be changed while the game is active?
20:17:23  <cjk> hardly
20:17:30  <mynetdude> didn't think so
20:17:34  <cjk> it'd be surprising if the map just grew by 4 blocks :p
20:17:41  <Ammler> mynetdude: just use rcon
20:17:44  <mynetdude> cjk how do you mean?
20:17:49  <cjk> the .cfg contains map size and such
20:17:50  <mynetdude> whats rcon?
20:18:00  <Ammler> rcon <pw> restart_game_year
20:18:19  <mynetdude> cjk but you can set the map size when you first start up the server the biggest I think is 2048x2048
20:18:25  <cjk> I KNOW :>
20:18:33  <glx> there's reload_cfg to reload a modified .cfg
20:18:35  <mynetdude> I know you know, but whats the difference?
20:18:43  <mynetdude> cool :)
20:19:15  <mynetdude> any chance ottd can make maps bigger than 2048x2048?
20:19:28  <glx> why?
20:19:31  <mynetdude> j/w
20:19:36  <mynetdude> that'd be uber killer
20:19:37  <Ammler> mynetdude: there are already patches, but you would play them alone
20:19:42  <mynetdude> as in, way too big
20:19:47  <Belugas> why would it by a killer???
20:19:57  <cjk> 1024x1024 is like 400 kb already - and that chogs people's bw it seems
20:20:14  <Ammler> 1024² is almost 2M
20:20:39  <Ammler> (after playing some years)
20:20:47  <mynetdude> Ammler I was just going to say
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20:27:13  <cjk> echinos: you may rejoin .. but perhaps not as "Player" :)
20:27:25  <cjk> though I guess noone else uses the name then ^_^
20:28:07  <echinos> cjk: I'm leaving work now (I'm in EST), I'll be on later
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20:30:15  <Ammler> how can that happen: (svn revert)
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20:33:59  <Pinchiukas> ok so my train comes to a station near a coal mine, it doesn't even fill up and then leaves, so why is the coal mine telling, that only 53% of the production is transported?
20:34:29  <Noldo> Ammler: the patch was taken the worng way around
20:35:25  <Ammler> Noldo: well, I use < instead of -f
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20:35:29  <Ammler> or -i
20:35:32  <Pinchiukas_> damn isp
20:35:40  <Pinchiukas_> so anybody can give me any advice?
20:35:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> Pinchiukas: that number is taken from the (average) rating of your station
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20:36:22  <Pinchiukas_> Eddi|zuHause3: I don't understand... the mine doesn't give me enough to fill the whole train but says that I don't transport all the cargo
20:36:23  <Pinchiukas_> wtf?
20:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> if you have constantly a train loading at the station, you get around 65-70%
20:36:26  <Ammler> 53% of the time, nothing takes the cargo from there
20:36:34  <Ammler> 47 I meant
20:36:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> if no train is loading, the rating drops
20:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> you get a bonus on the rating if the train is very new (<2 years)
20:37:06  <Pinchiukas_> so I better have a train always loading?
20:37:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> or if you have a statue in the town (+10%)
20:37:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> an advertising campaign also temporarily increases the rating
20:37:40  <Ammler> :-)
20:38:56  <Ammler> dunno, is it still possible to push the rating with a truck?
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20:39:32  <Ammler> loads and unloads at same station
20:39:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't see what should forbid that
20:40:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> but better is a ship, then the rating drops slower ;)
20:42:48  <cjk> Hm, does it matter if I overplant all Farm fields with rails? Does the production sink that way?
20:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
20:44:33  <cjk> read the source?
20:45:26  <Belugas> it has no effect at all
20:45:29  <Belugas> just eye candy
20:45:36  <Belugas> mmh...
20:45:43  <Belugas> although it could eventually...
20:45:53  <Belugas> that would be fun isn't?
20:46:09  <Belugas> step on my fields and i yell!
20:46:18  <Belugas> imagine the pleasure on MP games ...
20:47:02  <Belugas> don't like this player who get his stuff from that farm?  kill the farm by  adding tons of rails around
20:47:04  <Belugas> cool :D
20:47:28  <Pinchiukas_> so when a train is stopped, I don't have to pay for maintenance?
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20:49:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> Pinchiukas_: only when you manually stop it (e.g. at a depot), not when it is just waiting at the station
20:49:22  <Pinchiukas_> I see
20:49:35  <Pinchiukas_> and when it's waiting for a signal, I also pay for that?
20:50:05  <Belugas> indeed
20:50:22  <Belugas> consider that the loco is stillburning fuel or whatever
20:50:49  <Belugas> pkyus, you have to pay the employees
20:51:13  <Pinchiukas_> so where am I supposed to find stuff like that out?
20:52:05  <Belugas> what do you mean?
20:54:00  * Belugas is going home
20:54:05  <Belugas> have a nice weekend
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21:03:27  <mynetdude> Eddi|zuHause3 so let me see if I get this straight, the only time you don't pay for train maintenance is when you manually send the train to depot and it stays inside?
21:03:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, you can also click on the bar in the train so it says "stopped" [in red]
21:08:03  <mynetdude> so if you stop a train on the track and it is red, you don't pay maintenenace?
21:09:40  *** Osai^Kendo`off is now known as Osai
21:10:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes
21:10:08  <glx> no running costs when it's not running ;)
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21:11:14  <Fingon> maybe it's an idea for the AI to let it detect when a train is not moving, and then the AI can "stop" it.
21:11:15  <mynetdude> nice, I can build me some nifty train yards and let trains sit there rather than having them sit at depots to make it look more realistic
21:11:27  <Fingon> and when the AI sees the train can move again, "start" it again :p
21:11:29  <Fingon> evil AI
21:11:52  <Fingon> (pointless anyway atm since no trains are possible yet, but maybe in the future :)
21:11:56  <mynetdude> Fingon that'd be a way to save the money... but unrealistic imo
21:12:16  <mynetdude> Fingon um... what are you talking about trains make up most of ttd!
21:12:34  <Fingon> sorry, trains are not possible yet in NoAI *
21:12:50  <Fingon> as human it would be a massive waste of time to do that :p
21:12:53  <mynetdude> oh, can't run trains in NoAI :( heh
21:13:04  <mynetdude> Fingon true
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22:08:41  <Ammler> nice, distant-join patch works server independend
22:17:26  <Wolf01> 'night
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22:28:16  <cjk> distant-join?
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22:42:20  <cjk> mh the rcon does not seem to work
22:43:14  <cjk> (note to self: put everything into quotes)
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23:34:40  <dragonhorseboy> hey
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23:34:54  <dragonhorseboy> any of you know about re building quarries (from brickyard grf)
23:35:34  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: use the newest version :-)
23:35:59  <dragonhorseboy> ammler..thats not the thing here
23:36:16  <dragonhorseboy> how do you even get one funded at all? it keep saying site unsuitable even if I point it at a flat high slope face
23:36:50  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy: I guess, it is, the older version is very hard to fund on a new map
23:37:13  <Ammler> which version do you use?
23:37:44  <dragonhorseboy> server says hmm v1.2
23:37:56  <Ammler> use 1.3something
23:38:20  <dragonhorseboy> hey..did I said its even mine? :p
23:38:22  <dragonhorseboy> heh
23:38:39  <Ammler> :-)
23:38:49  *** Aitor [] has quit []
23:38:54  <Ammler> well, then terraform first for the old quarry
23:39:13  <dragonhorseboy> terraform  .. how?
23:40:34  <Ammler> dragonhorseboy:
23:41:38  <Ammler> it needs 3tiles up
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23:43:47  <dragonhorseboy> hmm no go...created a flat land then made a 5 wide+tall slope :/
23:45:10  <dragonhorseboy> *wonders if it just have any location restrictions other than the landscape*
23:48:46  <dragonhorseboy> meh nevermind -- silly map is almost expired anyhow (year 2031 too)
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