Log for #openttd on 4th June 2008:
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00:18:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13376 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp newgrf_engine.cpp):
00:18:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Feature: Add access to current long year and date from Action 7/9/D and VarAction2 (23/24 or A3/A4)
00:18:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: Add access to (long format) building year, in Variational Action2 Variable 49 for Vehicles
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05:45:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Belugas> MKay?? <-- it's a line from south park
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05:57:01  <ln> yeah, that's what it's aboot.
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06:40:33  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13377 /trunk/src/newgrf_engine.cpp: -Codechange: Let 'long format' build year work in vehicle purchase list.
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07:08:28  <Pikka> peter?
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07:39:33  <peter1138> pikka?
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07:40:07  <iAN_> hello again
07:43:34  <iAN_> good mornign to everyone =)
07:45:09  <Pikka> peter: " Let 'long format' build year work in vehicle purchase list"???
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07:46:14  <Pikka> does that mean that in the purchase list, "build year" = "current year"? :)
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07:52:01  <Pikka> oh, peter, I remembered another feature request/bug fix I wanted. :)  expiring wagons.
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07:59:15  <LA> Pikka: Do both the NARS and UKRS change some base costs?
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08:10:58  <peter1138> Pikka: yes, same as for 'short' build year.
08:11:12  <Pikka> oh
08:11:28  * Pikka wasn't aware that it did for short build year. must be an OTTD thing. :)
08:12:52  <peter1138> well adding it for short year fixed problems a while ago
08:13:01  <peter1138> but that may've been due to incorrect handling elsewhere
08:13:31  <peter1138> (i.e. falling back to the default group when it shouldn't've, or some such)
08:13:55  <peter1138> but some 0x4x vars work in the purchase list, and this one's pretty easy to add ;)
08:14:08  <peter1138> right, wagon expiration i have already coded, but not tested
08:14:13  <Pikka> goodo :)
08:14:18  * peter1138 wonders if it should be turn on and offable
08:15:08  <Rubidium> peter1138: you should start a discussion with the "real coders" about that change
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08:17:34  <iAN_> How can I get a "transport rating" over 80%? Even that at anytime a train is loading smth. I just have transported 69% :-( ?!
08:17:44  <Pikka> Rubidium: by "real coders" do you mean MB and Oztrans? :)
08:18:29  <Rubidium> Pikka: I have no idea exactly who are meant
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08:23:22  <Rubidium> was meant kinda sarcastic though
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08:24:52  <Pikka> indeed :)
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08:26:32  <Rubidium> must be raining quite violently where Mucht lives
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08:27:25  <Pikka> where he works, too
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08:29:36  <peter1138> < small cleanup
08:37:46  <peter1138> Rubidium: that's a sanctioned change; it's in the ttdpatch changelog
08:38:02  <peter1138> (16/06/2006)
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08:38:51  <peter1138> it doesn't say if it's optional though
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08:54:21  <LA> can anyone suggest me any good site with hangar galleries?
08:54:41  <Ammler> LA: do you use grf2html?
08:55:09  <LA> I'm a little familiar but generally no
08:57:24  <LA> why?
08:58:05  <Ammler> you see then very fast, how basecosts are set...
08:59:53  <LA> You still want to complete your datasheet? :P
09:00:24  <Ammler> the datasheet should be generated automatically...
09:01:05  <Ammler> I did it with grep and copy&paste :-)
09:01:58  <LA> :)
09:02:16  <iAN_> Hi Ammler
09:02:43  <Ammler> LA: but the important basecosts are made by hand :-)
09:02:50  <Ammler> Hi iAN_
09:03:01  <Ammler> how is ECS working?
09:03:08  <iAN_> bad :-(
09:03:24  <Ammler> I said, "do not use all at once" :-P
09:03:47  <iAN_> my sand mines have "just" 66% transported cargo displayed
09:03:57  <iAN_> even that 4 trains are loading at "any" time
09:04:26  <iAN_> I managed to build one station which has three sand mines arround.
09:04:37  <Ammler> well, there are many things which can influence it
09:04:59  <iAN_> trains have "full load" and the settings load one train after another
09:05:04  <Ammler> maybe you need vehicles?
09:05:36  <Ammler> read the ECS wiki and tt-forums thread
09:05:58  <iAN_> nothing with vehices. with vehicles I could increase the output
09:06:09  <iAN_> but they say I transport just 66% of the output they make
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09:06:17  <iAN_> which means they decrease production
09:06:53  <Ammler> I am sure, someone else mentioned that in the forums...
09:12:56  <iAN_> can yoo provide me again the wiki-ecs link?
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09:55:12  <Ammler> is there a debug option to skip a sprite in a grf?
09:57:27  <LA> Wasn't there some way to make a grf which modifies another grf?
09:57:33  <LA> You could use that
09:57:46  <Ammler> LA: don't think so
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10:20:14  <iAN_> ok, found my problem. The rating goes not beyond 66% because my city-rating (appaling) is to bad
10:20:40  <iAN_> I spend a couple of money into advertising and my three sand mines went from 106 each to 490 each per month
10:28:00  <SmatZ> good
10:29:11  <iAN_> I have massive problems to deliver 3000 units of sand and coal to the glass-works
10:29:50  <iAN_> I think I'll restart and use two tracks and longer stations (and trains)
10:34:23  <ln>
10:35:43  <planetmaker> ^ looool
10:36:12  <SmatZ> hehe
10:39:07  <iAN_> ROTFL
10:44:23  <dih> iAN_: you might be interested in reading some building guidelines of #openttdcoop
10:44:26  <dih>
10:44:33  <dih> they could be useful to you.
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11:05:37  <Maedhros> hmm. i quite like this "ignoring people on the forums" feature
11:05:51  <Maedhros> Draakon is the first (and so far only) person to make it onto the list
11:05:54  <peter1138> draakon?
11:05:56  <peter1138> hehe
11:07:10  <Maedhros> hehe, yup
11:11:22  <LA> dw, he is like.. 12, lives in Estonia and has an understandment that he is correct.. He'll grow out of it :P
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11:22:02  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13378 /trunk/src/network/core/config.h: -Fix (r13375): compilation without network support was broken
11:22:17  <peter1138> dw?
11:23:04  <ln> deutsche welle!
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11:23:52  <LA> dont worry
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12:37:37  <iAN_> question: how to enable PBS in openttd?
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12:38:28  <LA> by downloading YAPP patch
12:38:41  <LA> and compiling
12:38:48  <iAN_> erm..
12:39:01  <iAN_> No. I meant how to enable it for stupid end users like myself?
12:39:03  <LA> there is no PBS is official OpenTTD as such
12:39:38  <iAN_> I found a "patches" folder in my open_ttd folder containing a "yapp_r12170.patch" file
12:40:02  <peter1138> patches need to be compiled into the source
12:40:19  <LA> patched* :P.. and then source must be compliled
12:40:26  <LA> buildottd will help you
12:40:45  <LA>
12:41:17  <Ammler> or a looking for a patch pack like the one from roest...
12:42:23  <iAN_> I think I'll stick to pre-compiled, ready to use applications instead of breaking the code
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14:16:46  <Zuu> iAN_: You know that you probably can find a pre-compiled win-binary with YAPP?
14:17:32  <Zuu> Look in the YAPP thread in OpenTTD Development section of tt-forums (.net)
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14:25:50  <LA> hmm.. I think I'll follow Maedhros and ignore draakon.. he is too ignorant....
14:26:43  <Belugas> mmh...
14:26:55  <Belugas> you will soon find out the forums are a deserted place ;)
14:27:26  <Bjarni> heh
14:27:50  <Bjarni> whenever I look there I find somebody asking some question that they could easily have figured out on their own
14:28:00  <Bjarni> like "is window mode supported on mac?"
14:28:10  <Belugas> one word : L A Z I N E S S
14:28:22  <Sacro> another similar word: L A Z Y T O W N!
14:29:11  <murr4y> another related word: P E D O B E A R!
14:29:18  <Sacro> pfff
14:29:22  <Sacro> she's 17 now
14:29:30  <Bjarni> she?
14:29:33  <Bjarni> there is a she?
14:29:35  <Sacro> yes
14:29:38  <murr4y> stephie
14:29:55  <Bjarni> in this channel?
14:30:08  <peter1138> Sacro: that doesn't make it right to wank to pictures of 13 year olds
14:30:27  <Sacro> 13 year old != pedophile
14:30:50  * murr4y wanks to peter1138
14:30:56  <Bjarni> eek
14:31:44  <Bjarni> I would kick you for that but since you got screwed up ideas you might consider it a friendly approach
14:31:53  <Bjarni> which it isn't supposed to be
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14:32:05  <murr4y> haha
14:32:17  <Sacro> talking of screwed up, here's lobster
14:33:59  <Bjarni> I saw a guy on TV who is a famous comedian today. He talked about his schooltime and about how he was bullied for being weird. Then he started wearing one of those Middle Eastern man dresses (I think that was his choice of words) and then he became so weird that the other kids ignored him instead of bullying him and he considered himself the winner
14:34:24  <Sacro> those man dresses disturb me
14:34:32  <SpComb> Sacro disturbs me
14:34:53  <Sacro> SpComb logs me
14:34:54  <Bjarni> Sacro disturbs everybody
14:35:17  <murr4y> disturb?
14:35:29  <murr4y> i was a week on vacation in dubai
14:35:33  <dih> yes - find a dict
14:35:36  <murr4y> there were sheets everywhere
14:36:04  <Bjarni> why would you want to go to Dubai?
14:36:15  <murr4y> oh man
14:36:16  <peter1138> why not?
14:36:24  <murr4y> my personal reason, my brother moved and lives there
14:36:32  <murr4y> however
14:36:34  <murr4y> dubai is amazing
14:36:38  <Bjarni> it disturbs me that you would go somewhere that hot on your own free will
14:36:53  <murr4y> i went in the easter
14:36:54  <Bjarni> <murr4y> dubai is amazing <-- amazingly hot, that is
14:36:57  <murr4y> so temp was perfect
14:37:15  <murr4y> sides, they have ACs everywhere
14:37:37  <Bjarni> yeah they use an insane amount of energy
14:38:12  <murr4y> yep
14:38:30  <murr4y> but the place is awesome
14:38:34  <murr4y> i thought norway was rich
14:38:41  <murr4y> wtf have we got, farms and cows
14:38:43  <Bjarni> haha
14:38:50  <murr4y> but there
14:38:55  <murr4y> they have burj-al arab, ofc
14:39:03  <murr4y> they have those palm islands with hotels
14:39:15  <Bjarni> they have the whole world
14:39:20  <murr4y> yeah
14:39:24  <murr4y> or at least they're building it
14:39:40  <murr4y> they have the dubai autodrome (i drove a rs4 there)
14:39:43  <murr4y>
14:39:51  <murr4y> best car ride of my life
14:39:59  <murr4y> jumeirah beach speaks for itself
14:40:03  <murr4y> and everything is just glory
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14:40:09  * murr4y stops ranting now
14:40:40  <Bjarni> yeah
14:40:42  <Bjarni> you should
14:41:08  <murr4y> anyway, that's why you'd go to dubai
14:41:17  <murr4y> my brother and some buddies moved there and started a business
14:41:18  <Bjarni> you make more sense when you try to be evil
14:41:22  <murr4y> they're doing great
14:41:29  <murr4y> don't i make sense? :p
14:41:38  <murr4y> he has a nissan 350-z
14:41:42  <Belugas> you do, he does not
14:41:51  <murr4y> that costs a 3rd of what it costs here in norway
14:42:23  <murr4y> and it eats enourmous amounts of gas, but that doesn't matter since gas costs next to nothing there
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14:46:14  <dih> 16:41 <@Bjarni> you make more sense when you try to be evil <-- or when he shuts up?
14:46:25  <Bjarni> that too
14:47:09  <murr4y> how dare you!
14:48:35  <SpComb> dubai sounds like a nice place, I propose that we move the entire planet's population there
14:49:06  <Bjarni> <murr4y> best car ride of my life <-- I tried a Lamborghini Murcielago.... It sucked
14:49:31  <SpComb> what, it was really hard to go in reverse with a trailer attached?
14:49:39  <dih> cht_work:
14:49:42  <dih> ops
14:49:45  <dih> gnah
14:49:50  <Bjarni> it felt like it had sacrificed everything for speed
14:49:59  <Bjarni> so it was noisy and had bad seats
14:50:02  <SpComb> and looking good
14:50:04  <Bjarni> and bad visibility
14:50:05  <peter1138> how're the autoreplace fixes going?
14:51:01  <Bjarni> I'm currently writing a report for uni... which I guess I should get back to now :/
14:51:14  <Bjarni> somehow it's more important
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14:59:31  <svippery> Hm, Bjarni, what is this new yapp I hear about?
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15:07:47  <svippery> Can anyone tell me whether yapp is part of the current revision?
15:07:54  <peter1138> it is not
15:08:16  <svippery> Is it possible to add for testing?
15:08:57  <Sacro> yes
15:09:07  <Belugas> you just need to pick up a pre-compiled version on the forums
15:09:11  <Belugas> plenty available
15:09:27  <Belugas> or, if you DARE, use svn and a complier to do it yourself ;)
15:09:36  <Belugas> compiler
15:09:42  <svippery> >:| I prefer self-compiled.
15:09:47  <svippery> I don't need your fancy binaries.
15:10:04  <blathijs> We need more of this kind of users :-)
15:10:21  <Belugas> i would not give one to you either >:[
15:10:22  <svippery> Oh dear.
15:10:26  <svippery> What is the patch command again?
15:10:40  <Belugas> find yourself, mister attitude
15:10:51  <blathijs> patch -p0 < blaa.diff
15:10:54  <svippery> Oh, did I offend the French Canadian? :(
15:11:07  <Belugas> pretty much so yes
15:11:15  <Belugas> [11:07] <svippery> I don't need your fancy binaries.  <-- like... duh
15:13:12  <svippery> It's the strangest thing, Belugas.
15:13:24  <svippery> This patch... it keeps changing a/ to b/
15:13:29  <peter1138> -p1 then
15:13:31  <svippery> Woot?
15:13:54  <svippery> Uuuh, hax.
15:13:55  <svippery> Worked.
15:14:07  <svippery> >:D Now we're compiling!
15:14:15  <SpComb> make -j9
15:14:22  <svippery> Why -j9?
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15:14:36  <peter1138> just in case you have 9 cores
15:14:42  <svippery> Oh right.
15:14:52  <svippery> I have none.
15:14:57  <svippery> Wait... I mean 1.
15:15:14  <SpComb> a zero-core processor
15:16:39  <blathijs> Cool, you just get the bus interface and memory controller, then :-)
15:16:39  <svippery> In consideration, SpComb, it's doing quite well.
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15:20:48  <svippery> Hm, peter1138, it seems to be referring to a source file I do not have.
15:20:50  <svippery> pbs.h
15:21:10  <planetmaker> he. Then you didn't patch correctly
15:21:29  <planetmaker> make a clean revert and try again
15:22:41  <svippery> Hm.
15:22:47  <svippery> I got a lot of FAILED hunks.
15:23:04  <planetmaker> ^ in that case, you're bound to have a broken compilation.
15:23:17  <planetmaker> you must not have any failed hunk. Use the correct svn version.
15:23:41  <planetmaker> not svn version, but openttd version which you check out.
15:24:08  <dih> svippery: you should use the same revision that was used for the diff you have!
15:24:14  <planetmaker> ^
15:24:20  <svippery> Oh dear.
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15:24:27  <svippery> How do I checkout a specific revision?
15:24:40  <Sacro> -r $foo
15:24:40  <planetmaker> svn co -r <revision>
15:24:40  <dih> you like command line?
15:24:46  <svippery> I love command line.
15:24:57  <dih> then start using man pages
15:25:01  <dih> --help arguments
15:25:01  <planetmaker> or rather now use svn up -r <revision>
15:25:03  <SpComb> svn up -r <foo>
15:25:06  <dih> and in the case of svn
15:25:08  <dih> svn help
15:25:18  <SpComb> or read the red book
15:25:27  <SpComb> (or was it the svn book?)
15:25:33  <dih> it's a red book
15:25:36  <planetmaker> or take the blue pill ;)
15:25:42  <dih> :-D
15:25:48  <dih> "there is no spoon"
15:25:53  <SpComb> lies
15:26:05  <svippery> I have a spoon.
15:26:06  <Rubidium> +imagine
15:26:44  <svippery> Meh.
15:26:46  <svippery> I get the same error.
15:26:59  <svippery> I don't think yapp includes that pbs.h file itself.
15:28:44  <Belugas> right...
15:28:58  <Belugas> pbs.cpp in IN that patch
15:29:06  <svippery> Yes.
15:29:14  <Belugas> as well as pbs.h
15:29:17  <svippery> Well...
15:29:21  <Belugas> quite
15:30:38  <svippery> Hm... I can see neither.
15:30:52  <svippery> Aren't they supposed to be in src/ ?
15:30:58  <planetmaker> ^yes
15:31:00  <dih> pvippery: it does!
15:31:04  <dih> i used yapp myself
15:31:40  <dih> svippery: what is the error?
15:31:52  <Maedhros> if it didn't, no-one would have been able to use it ;)
15:31:58  <dih> hehe
15:31:59  <dih> true
15:32:02  <svippery> [SRC] Compiling effectvehicle.cpp
15:32:02  <svippery> In file included from /home/svip/openttd-dev/003/trunk/src/effectvehicle.cpp:28:
15:32:02  <svippery> /home/svip/openttd-dev/003/trunk/src/yapf/yapf.h:11:20: error: ../pbs.h: No such file or directory
15:32:27  <dih> you patched with -p1
15:32:43  <svippery> Is that a question?
15:32:52  <dih> does it have a questionmark?
15:32:59  <svippery> No, but people forget.
15:33:08  <svippery> But I am fairly sure I used -p0
15:33:21  <TiberiusTeng> ahh, finally got somebody here
15:33:42  * TiberiusTeng still working hard bringing NewGRF GUI to trunk
15:33:54  <svippery> Hm. :s dih, but when I do it with -p0, I get a lot of errors when patching.
15:33:55  <dih> svippery: find . -type f -name "pbs.*"
15:34:13  <dih> svippery: what revision ov openttd are you using?
15:34:17  <dih> *of
15:34:23  <svippery> 13374
15:34:36  <TiberiusTeng> but the New Graph thing just scared me off yesterday ...
15:34:36  <svippery> Since that's the version its says on the patch.
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15:34:41  <glx> and patch worked without errors?
15:34:44  <planetmaker> and which patch (version)?
15:34:48  <planetmaker> ok
15:34:56  <svippery> yapp-v7.1_r13374.patch
15:35:10  <dih> what folder are you in?
15:35:17  <svippery> trunk/
15:35:22  <dih> svn revert -R .
15:35:40  <dih> patch -p0 < yapp-v7.1*.patch
15:35:43  <TiberiusTeng> revert then patch -p1 < ../yapp-v7.1_r13374.patch (or wherever you put that patch file)
15:35:47  <planetmaker> so in the trunk dir you type patch -p0 < difffile
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15:35:56  <glx> broken patch
15:35:59  <glx> it miss files
15:36:05  <planetmaker> o_O :)
15:36:16  <svippery> Someone ought to tell him that.
15:36:18  <planetmaker> no svn add src/pbs* after fixing it :)
15:36:21  <dih> or post the output of 'head -5 <patch file>' here
15:36:36  <TiberiusTeng> OUCH
15:36:47  <planetmaker> my guess^^^
15:36:47  <svippery> diff -r eefd3dc28cd1 docs/landscape.html
15:36:47  <svippery> --- a/docs/landscape.html       Tue Jun 03 21:54:07 2008 +0800
15:36:47  <svippery> +++ b/docs/landscape.html       Tue Jun 03 22:44:33 2008 +0800
15:36:47  <svippery> @@ -376,29 +376,39 @@
15:37:05  <TiberiusTeng> MY fault
15:37:07  <dih> that was made with hg
15:37:16  <dih> you have to revert
15:37:19  <dih> svn revert -R .
15:37:20  <TiberiusTeng> I'll add it RIGHT NOW, wait a sec
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15:37:31  <svippery> Done, dih.
15:37:32  <dih> then patch with -p1
15:37:38  <planetmaker> hehe. Did that mistake once or twice, too :)
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15:37:56  <planetmaker> svippery: don't.
15:37:57  <svippery> I'll wait for TiberiusTeng's fixed patch, dih. :P
15:38:02  <planetmaker> ^ :)
15:38:05  <dih> lazy skunk
15:38:26  <dih> svippery: at least give it a try
15:38:33  <dih> you can always svn revert again if it fails
15:38:40  <glx> it will fail
15:38:42  <svippery> It already failed.
15:38:45  <glx> it miss added files
15:38:51  <dih> hehe
15:38:55  <dih> :-D
15:39:05  <TiberiusTeng> I forgot to ask hg to include new files ...
15:39:17  <dih> did you not create a branch in your hg checkout?
15:39:34  <svippery> I also noticed the size was smaller, TiberiusTeng.
15:39:36  <dih> then you can at least make commits
15:40:04  <dih> (local commits)
15:41:31  <TiberiusTeng> yeah
15:41:50  <TiberiusTeng> I'll bring it to 13377 btw
15:41:53  <blathijs> I already wondered why -p0 failed, but that's hg's fault :-p
15:42:11  <TiberiusTeng> maybe I should hg diff -g
15:42:48  <dih> TiberiusTeng: create a branch in your hg checkout so that you also gain version controll of your stuff
15:42:54  <dih> hg branch pbs
15:43:04  <dih> hg commit -m "message"
15:43:18  <TiberiusTeng> actually I already did that :p
15:43:22  <dih> hg update default (or in this case probably trunk or openttd)
15:43:32  <dih> then why are you missing _new_ files?
15:43:59  <TiberiusTeng> I forgot to add before diff ...
15:44:07  <dih> LOL
15:44:23  <dih> a bit over-excited to release i take it
15:44:54  *** svippery is now known as svip
15:45:13  <dih> why not svuip?
15:45:21  <svip> Cause I am not svuip.
15:45:43  <dih> (vuip => very unimportant person)
15:45:49  <dih> :-P
15:45:58  <svip> You are... *hilarious*...
15:46:26  <dih> thank you - i know!
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15:50:47  <TiberiusTeng> ok, please check the thread again, I've updated the patch file (but it's still 10k smaller ...)
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15:52:59  <TiberiusTeng> note that it only updates vs80/vs90 project file, so you probably have to edit Makefile yourself
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15:53:58  <Rubidium> TiberiusTeng: does it change source.list?
15:54:03  <TiberiusTeng> yes.
15:54:21  <Rubidium> then nobody needs to change a thing to get it compiled
15:54:28  <TiberiusTeng> aha. ok
15:55:08  <TiberiusTeng> I haven't dig into OTTD's build system yet, that's a great hint. thanks.
15:55:47  <glx> I hope you don't change vcproj by hand
15:55:52  <Rubidium> MSVC project files are generated from source.list and so are the makefiles
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16:00:21  <TiberiusTeng> ahh, so I should remove *.vcproj out of versioning system and use generate/generate.vbs to generate them?
16:00:28  <LA> orudge: Have I filed some report post thing "Ban evasion 37753" ?
16:00:35  <LA> Coz IIRC I haven't
16:00:57  <LA> and I got an email confirmation that you have dealed with it :S
16:00:58  <svip> Uhm, is this a feature?
16:01:04  <Rubidium> TiberiusTeng: no, you should just run generate/generate.vbs if you changed something
16:01:15  <svip> The scrolling seems to be super fast if I use the arrow keys while moving the mouse.
16:01:24  <Rubidium> MSVC can't quite live without the vcprojs, which is why they are in the svn repository
16:02:02  <TiberiusTeng> OK I see. (actually I'm using VC2005 to compile/test these things)
16:02:19  *** skidd13 [] has joined #openttd
16:02:27  <LA> hey skidd13
16:02:35  <skidd13> Hey LA
16:03:33  * TiberiusTeng back on NewGRF GUI
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16:05:21  <TiberiusTeng> oh, BTW, if I can do something for middle-stop to be included in trunk ...
16:05:32  <TiberiusTeng> an option in 'Configure Patches' ?
16:05:36  <blathijs> middle-stop?
16:06:16  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: if it doesn't stop always in the middle...
16:06:27  <TiberiusTeng> guess so ;)
16:06:27  <Ammler> like on Terminus stations
16:07:10  <TiberiusTeng> this could be difficult, if some stations stops at middle and some doesn't ...
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16:08:08  <Ammler> hmm, maybe setable in the order list?
16:08:53  *** Dr_Jekyll [] has quit []
16:10:34  <TiberiusTeng> I think it's better as a per-station option
16:11:09  <skidd13> TiberiusTeng: well link to diff would be helpfull if you propose something ;)
16:12:20  <TiberiusTeng> skidd13, it's in the forum, and BTW it's not my creation ;)
16:13:00  <planetmaker> ^then you should give link :)
16:13:08  <peter1138> LA: i moved stuff with your report to the spam bin
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16:16:43  <skidd13> TiberiusTeng: adapt the patch so that it matches coding style...
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16:17:44  <skidd13> Especialy the spaces between the operators
16:18:36  <skidd13> And maybe a comment what the piece of code does...
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16:20:16  <TiberiusTeng> skidd13, got it
16:20:54  <TiberiusTeng> what's the policy on very-long expression lines? is wrapping okay? or everything should stay in a line?
16:21:24  <Belugas> wrapping is ok, indeed
16:21:43  <Belugas> just indent (tabbed) it correctly :)
16:22:17  <skidd13> damn Belugas... you type faster than me...
16:22:36  <Belugas> it's called coffee, skidd13 ;)
16:22:37  <Touqen> skidd13:
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16:22:54  <Belugas> hello skidd13, by the way :D
16:23:04  <skidd13> It's called study work load, Belugas ;)
16:23:21  <Belugas> her....
16:23:29  <Belugas> as if i was not working myself :S
16:23:30  <Belugas> blaaa
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16:24:09  <skidd13> lol... well work changes every day ;) ... try to fix an exam past the tests... ;)
16:24:28  <skidd13> well legaly :D
16:27:23  <TiberiusTeng> two steps indent for wrapped expressions, I guess? or one step?
16:27:38  <skidd13> two
16:27:44  <TiberiusTeng> actually I was thinking about configuration or station options, that's a lot of headache
16:27:44  <TiberiusTeng> got it
16:28:21  <skidd13> TiberiusTeng: by the way are both cached values signed int?
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16:29:10  <TiberiusTeng> seems uint16
16:29:37  <skidd13> well then unsigned should fit ;)
16:30:11  <TiberiusTeng> uint == uint32 ?
16:30:35  <skidd13> yeah, but uint16 is damned slow and mostly used cause of memory reasons ;)
16:31:50  <skidd13> well I'd prefer to constify the values since they are const, but that's personal...
16:33:36  <TiberiusTeng> good coding practice never hurts ...
16:33:57  <TiberiusTeng> will take care of it later, and add an temporary configure option for it
16:34:12  <TiberiusTeng> before digging into how to have order/station specific options ...
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16:35:03  <skidd13> Hmm... IMO a patch option is overkill, but what do the other devs say? folks
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16:37:30  <TiberiusTeng> and I have to figure out who made it from the beginning ... I just salvaged it from deep inside (?) some thread and think that's cool
16:38:06  <TiberiusTeng> since the station building of (original) stations are all at middle, so it makes sense
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16:39:41  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: it is Eddi|zuHause2, afaik
16:39:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> <TiberiusTeng> oh, BTW, if I can do something for middle-stop to be included in trunk ... <- i did not really intend it for trunk inclusion, imho it lacks a lot of functionality to be really useful
16:40:04  <TiberiusTeng> great
16:40:23  <skidd13> Eddi|zuHause2: isn't style usefull... well no, but still nice ;)
16:40:26  <TiberiusTeng> it's just some cosmetic change in its current form
16:41:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a suggestion to add an orders flag to stop the train at the beginning, middle or end of station
16:42:09  <TiberiusTeng> speaking of useful ... I was once thought of locomotive switching! electric loco disconnects from the train, enters depot, and another diesel loco go out to take the train further down unelectrified route ...
16:42:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, that's a hell of a killer feature ;)
16:42:38  <TiberiusTeng> but it's way too difficult to implement in OTTD I think
16:42:43  * Belugas yawns
16:43:15  * skidd13 hands Belugas a cup of fresh brewed coffe
16:43:20  <skidd13> e
16:43:47  <Belugas> not while eating pasta-bacon-cheese, thanks :D
16:43:49  <orudge> [17:00:28] <LA> orudge: Have I filed some report post thing "Ban evasion 37753" ? <-- ah, you were perhaps subscribed to that topic, and when it was moved or split to the spam bin (and renamed), it sent a notification out to you
16:43:53  <orudge> sorry about that ;)
16:44:10  <TiberiusTeng> hope I can keep enthusiasm long enough to see it happening 8)
16:45:03  <skidd13> Belugas: well then I take it... since I need some ;D
16:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> TiberiusTeng: i just wrote about what kind of impact this would have on newgrf trainsets with livery overrides
16:45:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> in the forum
16:45:45  <TiberiusTeng> newgrf's another big mess (no offense)
16:45:48  <Ammler> [18:42] <Eddi|zuHause2> there was a suggestion to add an orders flag to stop the train at the beginning, middle or end of station <-- that would be usefull for conditional orders
16:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> well, it would be a flag like the loading and unloading flags
16:47:08  <TiberiusTeng> the order system/station info could have more flexibility (even think of scripting, Python/Lua ... but NoAI have picked Squirrel ...)
16:47:23  <dih> trallalla and tÌdeldÌ
16:47:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> tirili
16:47:42  <dih> Squirrel is based on Lua
16:47:49  <dih> and way more powerful
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16:48:19  <TiberiusTeng> anyway these are far from now :p
16:48:47  <skidd13> "dih: trallalla and tÌdeldÌ" Drugs aren't good for you.... Mmmmmkeeeyyy
16:48:49  <TiberiusTeng> if it's used on signal scripting (just for example)
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16:49:01  <TiberiusTeng> and there are many scripts got called every tick
16:49:14  <TiberiusTeng> then powerful is not necessarily a good thing
16:49:40  <dih> hey ho skidd13
16:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, i don't have the time to improve the middle_stop patch
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16:50:22  <dih> TiberiusTeng: noai uses a slightly customised version of squirrel
16:50:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> there were also complaints that it does not work well with realistic accelleration
16:50:38  <skidd13> dih: WWOTTDGD proceeding well?
16:50:42  <dih> + you can add a 'something' to limit execution of anything to x opcodes
16:50:51  <dih> skidd13: kinda
16:51:07  <TiberiusTeng> sounds interesting
16:51:27  <dih> it's very good
16:51:31  <dih> and it's better than lua
16:51:34  <TiberiusTeng> the scripting engine haven't in trunk I think?
16:51:36  <dih> and it's still very lightweight
16:51:46  <dih> it's in the noai branch
16:51:59  <dih> there are helper classes and api's to use
16:52:08  <dih> so you dont have to do sq stuff by hand
16:52:17  <dih> and templates are in place too
16:52:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> there were also plans to use squirrel as the console language
16:52:34  <dih> uh!
16:52:43  <dih> sounds interesting ^^
16:52:57  * TiberiusTeng cross fingers and press Build
16:53:46  <dih> how are you skidd13
16:53:52  <dih> have not seen you online in a long time
16:54:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> if you're born in 1913, you should be 95 by now ;)
16:54:54  <skidd13> dih: well I'm online but mostly only cause of some dev issues... currently in the last weeks of my study...
16:55:06  *** raimar2 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:56:04  <dih> how is that going?
16:56:14  <dih> the last weeks of your study, not the deving
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16:57:12  <skidd13> well well... just high work load
16:57:42  <TiberiusTeng> damn, it works! :D
16:57:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> what did you do?
16:58:04  <dih> he ran make!
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16:58:57  <TiberiusTeng> newgrf-gui_r13377 is done
16:59:31  <dih> 'done' is a dangerous word when talking about patches
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16:59:59  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: is it horizontal resizeable?
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17:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> the general veto against newgrf-gui was that it's too wide
17:00:18  <TiberiusTeng> not yet.
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17:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> there needs to be a low-res variant
17:00:56  <TiberiusTeng> I'll try make it horizontal scalable
17:01:13  * SmatZ wonders how wide the Group GUI is
17:01:36  <TiberiusTeng> although personally I think 640x480 viewable is enough, but since there's people asking for it and I'm at it ...
17:01:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure if that will work better than having two windows wich can overlap each other, TiberiusTeng
17:02:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> TiberiusTeng: some people want to play openttd on mobile devices with much smaller screens than 640x480
17:02:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> and pretty much all windows now can be resized below that
17:03:20  <SmatZ> <-- TiberiusTeng
17:03:25  *** Maedhros [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
17:03:54  <SmatZ> 240x320 / 320x240 are the smallest
17:04:47  * SmatZ has a phone with ~50x30 px :-)
17:05:09  <SpComb> implementing the console as an interactive interpreter for some language would be an awesome thing
17:05:42  <dih> Eddi: that is theit touch luck
17:05:46  <TiberiusTeng> playing OTTD without mouse/touchscreen was a very pain experience 8)
17:05:53  <dih> i remember reading stuff about going below that res somwhere
17:06:20  <Belugas> a phone with a screen???
17:06:42  <Belugas> damned... i'm still using rotating dialer ...
17:07:08  <SpComb> and here I was, whistling into a twisted-pair cable
17:07:36  <Belugas> lol
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17:08:27  <Belugas> TiberiusTeng, ON ENGLISH.TXT, use spaces,not tab
17:08:38  <Belugas> spaces are used to align stuff
17:09:38  <skidd13> Belugas: I use both rotating dialer and a 320x220 phone... ;) So you are not alone :D
17:09:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> TiberiusTeng: i played TT with keyboard a lot, it went very well, but TTD lost the ability to move the mouse curser with alt+arrowkeys
17:10:45  <Belugas> skidd13, i was really joking ;)  there are no more rotating dialers at home.  and it's been a while i have not seen one either
17:10:53  <TiberiusTeng> oops
17:10:54  <skidd13> :( Liar
17:11:02  <skidd13> ;)
17:11:03  <glx> I have one, but can't use it
17:11:08  <TiberiusTeng> I actually played OTTD on NDS and PSP
17:11:21  <TiberiusTeng> NDS's cool (with touchscreen), but memory's just too small
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17:11:27  <Belugas> TiberiusTeng, try to find an editor who displays tabs and spaces.  you'll see a few rogue tabs without any code
17:11:34  <Belugas> skidd13, not liar, joker :D
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17:11:44  <TiberiusTeng> but using analog stick to point something on PSP is just pain
17:11:46  <glx> TiberiusTeng: NDS can't support noai
17:11:56  <skidd13> Belugas: sometimes the difference isn't that huge
17:12:03  <Belugas> heheh
17:12:15  <TiberiusTeng> Belugas, which patch? I do use vim and highlight spaces/tabs ... maybe I just missed something
17:12:26  <Belugas> newgrf_gui_r13377
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17:12:42  <skidd13> TiberiusTeng: nice another VIM user :D
17:12:48  <TiberiusTeng> ok got it
17:12:52  <Wolf01> hello
17:13:02  <skidd13> Hi Wolf01
17:13:09  <TiberiusTeng> those tabs didn't FAILED so I didn't noticed them :p
17:13:49  <skidd13> Does anyone know a nice library for C++ to play a bit with JOR and SOR solvers?
17:13:51  <Belugas> that's the joy of patch watching :S
17:14:21  <SmatZ> JOR and SOR?
17:14:24  <SmatZ> :-)
17:14:54  <skidd13>
17:15:04  * TiberiusTeng hg revert --all
17:15:10  <skidd13> SmatZ: ^^
17:15:25  <SmatZ> thanks skidd13 :)
17:15:53  <Belugas> ho... with that name, i was expecting some yoga technics i was not aware of...
17:16:34  <SmatZ> :-D
17:16:36  <skidd13> lol... Belugas: now that you say that... funny joke I need to mention in a presentation ...
17:16:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> that sounds very... numeric
17:16:52  <TiberiusTeng> ok, updated that file in forum.
17:16:54  <Belugas> told you... i'm a joker
17:17:17  <TiberiusTeng>
17:17:35  <TiberiusTeng> (beware, its size includes window title bar/border)
17:18:38  <SmatZ> :-D
17:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> skidd13: for numeric calculations, matlab might be the way to go
17:18:49  <TiberiusTeng> with this I tried some 320x240, 256x384 on PC ... and even 'Game Options' didn't fit in screen *)
17:19:32  <skidd13> Eddi|zuHause2: well I did the matlab implementation, but the task I'm on ATM is to reimplement it in a language of my choise... -> C++
17:21:20  <TiberiusTeng> and world map can't fit horizontally in 320
17:21:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> TiberiusTeng: i said MOST windows, the job is not finished
17:22:32  <TiberiusTeng> yeah I know :p
17:23:10  * LA wonders if someone has done a 1:1 map of earth
17:23:15  <LA> :P
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17:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have seen an earth heightmap
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17:23:54  <TiberiusTeng> trying this on a 1680x1050 screen is very ... ouch.
17:24:01  <skidd13> I'm off ....
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17:24:12  <Touqen> What did the five fingers say to the face?
17:24:14  <TiberiusTeng> anyway I'll try make NewGRF GUI thinner
17:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> it was 2048x1024 afaik
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17:29:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> anyway, if you assume 1 tile equals 50m (two wagons of 25m length), then the equator would be 800.000 tiles
17:30:47  <SmatZ> that gives a reason for 1mil x 1mil maps
17:31:22  <Eddi|zuHause2> certainly :p
17:31:28  <TiberiusTeng> the window resizing system is a bit hard to understand ...
17:31:28  <SmatZ> :)
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17:32:00  <Belugas> naaa...
17:32:02  <Belugas> not really...
17:32:14  <Belugas> just took me 5 guis to understand it...
17:32:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it is... REALISTIC!!!11!eins1elf
17:32:38  <SmatZ> :-)
17:32:56  <Belugas> whouu.... the word...
17:33:02  <Belugas> THAT WORD!!!
17:33:07  <Belugas> Attack!!
17:33:10  <peter1138> haha
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17:33:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> the knights who say REALISTIC
17:34:05  <TiberiusTeng> ah! got it!
17:34:11  <Belugas> the fools, you mean ;)
17:34:14  <Rubidium> it isn't realistic to make OpenTTD realistic
17:34:24  <TiberiusTeng> top/bottom is not referring to 'padding size' but 'absolute size' ...
17:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> Belugas: have you ever watched monty python?
17:34:40  <Belugas> no
17:34:40  <TiberiusTeng>  /absolute position/
17:35:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah, i figured by your comment :p
17:35:29  <dih> Belugas pitties the fools
17:35:47  <murr4y> FOOLS
17:36:02  * peter1138 fitties the pools
17:36:11  <peter1138> (now i have to work out what 'fitties' means)
17:36:18  * Belugas engines the pools
17:36:44  <murr4y> in norwegian, fitte is "pussy"
17:36:45  <TiberiusTeng> but if I want to equally spacing those buttons/panels, then I still have to code OnSize() myself ... hmm.
17:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> "fit" was an east german brand of cleaning liquid
17:37:56  <planetmaker> ^ is :)
17:38:10  * planetmaker actually uses it :)
17:38:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes. i think it's one of the rare brands that survived ;)
17:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i clean dishes so rarely :p
17:38:51  <planetmaker> :)
17:39:09  <LA> Dish.. hmm.. that sounds almost like REALISM
17:39:12  * LA hides
17:39:33  <planetmaker> virtual cleaning prooved virtually useless :P
17:40:30  <dih> LA: can you not make a more realistic effort at hiding?
17:40:52  * LA makes a REALLY realistic effort on hiding..
17:40:57  <peter1138> hmm
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17:41:14  <peter1138> i wonder if jack will support multiple soundcards
17:42:38  * peter1138 suspects not due to timing issues
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17:43:08  <eemeli> can somebody please recommend me some good NewGRF's
17:43:24  <eemeli> i already have generic trams, newindustries and newinfrastructure
17:43:25  <Ammler> canada trainset
17:43:27  <peter1138> canset
17:43:32  <Ammler> :-)
17:43:33  <peter1138> ding
17:43:43  <TiberiusTeng> does the window width/height including its shaded borders?
17:43:45  <peter1138> ukrs, or dbsetxl, or ...
17:43:49  <Prof_Frink> dong
17:44:21  <dih> eemeli: get the #openttdcoop grfpack
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17:44:31  <dih> you'll have more than you need :-)
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17:53:50  <eemeli> ok i downloaded the coop grf pack but the readme is kinda vague
17:54:37  <eemeli> previously ive just extracted the files to my data folder and activated them from the newgrf settings
17:54:40  <eemeli> how do i install these?
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17:55:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> just extract the file into the data dir
17:55:18  <eemeli> will they activate automatically when i create a server?
17:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, you have to select the grfs you want in the newgrf settings dialog
17:56:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> not all sets are compatible with each other, so just loading all will most certainly fail badly
17:58:33  <dih> hehe
17:58:53  <dih> eemeli: the grfpack is nothing else than a good collection of grf's
17:59:03  <dih> it does not change anything related to the install procedure
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18:31:18  <hnsz2002> i see on the official site, from the servers query many information about game: map size, clients, game year...
18:31:46  <hnsz2002> i want make similar to this to my server... how can i read about this "queries"?
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18:39:01  <MetaMorfoziS> !halp
18:39:08  <hnsz2002> lol
18:39:23  <hnsz2002> MetaMorfoziS: can u help me?
18:39:29  <MetaMorfoziS> Oh, hai
18:39:38  <MetaMorfoziS> No, i just looking for mah bukkit
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18:40:10  <krix> oh hai
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18:42:21  <Belugas> hnsz2002, the servers page is built form the masterserver database, from infos collected during "contacts" between the server and the masterserver
18:43:04  <Belugas> but i think that stuff can be done on your side, using console handling or something like that.
18:43:13  <Belugas> you may try to look in the wiki for that
18:43:32  <Belugas> until someone with more knowledge on networking can answer you
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18:45:27  <hnsz2002> ok, and what is the difference betwheen "server" and "masterserver". i have only one server, that start dedicated with -D
18:45:57  <Sacro> you need a masterserver
18:46:01  <Sacro> but it's as big as a room
18:46:07  <Sacro> and needs a small generator
18:46:12  <krix> lolz :D
18:46:14  <krix> :))))
18:46:20  <Touqen> it's also sentient and a little psychotic.
18:46:22  <dih> hnsz2002: have a look at openttdlib
18:46:27  <Touqen> Oh wait, that's the Master Controller.
18:46:32  <Touqen> nvm
18:46:50  <krix> damn :D
18:47:03  <Belugas> masterserver is the application to which all servers that are starting are contacting, in order for all to see where are each server
18:47:16  <dih> hnsz2002: OpenTTDLib can query a server if you provide ip and port
18:47:23  <dih> and then display details on a website
18:47:23  <Belugas> that is the meaning of "advertize"
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18:47:51  <krix> hnsz2002, and its url:
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18:48:34  <hnsz2002> dih: if i good understand, the master server not need?
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18:48:45  <hnsz2002> krix: thx, i check this :)
18:48:46  <dih> hnsz2002:
18:48:57  <krix> oh
18:48:58  <dih> hnsz2002: if you only want to check ONE server
18:48:59  <krix> then that :)
18:49:15  <dih> and if you want to display it on your own website
18:49:21  <dih> then OpenTTDLib is for you
18:49:31  <hnsz2002> dih: yes, only one server
18:49:45  <dih> you can query multiple servers, but you must provide the ip and port (i.e. localhost, 3979)
18:50:09  <dih> download from the url i gave you (the latest release please) and read the docs
18:50:21  <dih> is down, just so you dont worry
18:50:28  <MetaMorfoziS> And secure every bukkint around you.
18:51:45  <hnsz2002> ok, i RTFM. dih, Belugas, krix: thanks for support :)
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18:52:17  <dih> hnsz2002: have a look at for a running example
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18:52:57  <sartek> oh hai
18:53:02  <krix> sartek, hai!
18:53:03  <krix> :)
18:53:08  <Touqen> I upgraded your ram.
18:53:14  <MetaMorfoziS> Halp! Invashun in progress.
18:53:39  <Belugas> nice results, dih
18:53:51  <dih> :-)
18:53:54  <dih> thanks Belugas
18:58:31  <eemeli> what does the "smoothness" of world generation do
18:58:53  <MetaMorfoziS> It upgrades your ram.
18:59:00  <eemeli> no
18:59:06  <MetaMorfoziS> Then i'm wrong, sorry.
18:59:39  <eemeli> you are not forgiven
19:00:01  <MetaMorfoziS> The openttd family don't forget?:(
19:00:05  <Belugas> how smooth the differences are going to be on the generation of "edges", in your landscape
19:00:23  <Belugas> try changing it, you'll see
19:00:30  <Belugas> keep same seed, tough
19:00:43  <MetaMorfoziS> maybe it's antialiasing?:D
19:00:56  <Belugas> very useful, MetaMorfoziS
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19:03:44  <hnsz2002> otherwise, we have an irc channel on freenode, #openttd-hu. this is an hungarian channel, but we welcome all openttd players.
19:03:56  <hnsz2002> if u think redirect to this the hungarian players :)
19:04:20  <Belugas> you could eventually make a post on forums ;)
19:04:29  <Belugas> you'll reach far more users hehe
19:04:42  <Belugas> or make it your signature, even...
19:05:09  <krix> i'm wrong or there was / were developers from Hungary in openttd team ?
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19:05:49  <Belugas> hem...
19:05:52  <krix> hm ?
19:05:53  <krix> what ?
19:05:57  <frosch123> one iirc
19:05:57  <Belugas> i think there is none right now
19:06:09  <sartek> krix: hem = developer
19:06:31  <Belugas> Darkvater was born in Hungaria, but grew in Netherland, if memory serves well
19:06:34  <krix> ah yep
19:06:47  <Belugas> currently, i don't think we have one
19:06:48  <krix> Darkwater yepp :) i got the nick now :)
19:06:54  <frosch123> webtranslator2 is running in hungary
19:07:02  <Belugas> true
19:07:04  <Sacro> i am hungry
19:07:08  <hnsz2002> :D
19:07:11  <krix> hah.. :))
19:07:19  <Belugas> you are sacred
19:07:33  <krix> Sacro hmm
19:07:38  <krix> why not Scaro :D
19:07:38  <krix> :p
19:07:54  <krix> Cult of Scaro, Planet of Scaro, etc. :p
19:08:22  <Sacro> Scaro?
19:08:52  <krix> this is only 'understandable' if you are familiar in DoctorWho 'universe' :)
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19:09:21  <Belugas> If i'd have to be in a cult, it would be one for NIN
19:10:51  <eemeli> i downloaded Industrial Stations Renewal v0.6.3
19:11:05  <eemeli> is there a way to enable deleting single parts of a station
19:11:22  <eemeli> i mean when i try to delete something off the station the whole thing disappears D:
19:11:29  <dih> hnsz2002: why do you not move from freenode to oftc?
19:11:44  <frosch123> press "build station" and the "remove" button, not the "bulldozer"
19:12:15  <eemeli> ty
19:12:42  <sartek> dih: what's wrong with freenode?:)
19:12:56  <Noldo> it's freenode
19:13:01  <krix> and? :)
19:13:19  <dih> most openttd channels are on oftc :-)
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19:15:00  <hnsz2002> dih: i have not problem with freenode :)
19:15:41  <dih> like i said: most openttd channels are here
19:15:50  <Belugas> we had lots of problems with freenodes
19:16:01  <Belugas> and far less since we are on oftc
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19:16:11  <krix> what problems if i can ask ?:)
19:16:28  <Belugas> lots of deconnections
19:16:35  <krix> ah
19:16:58  <Belugas> anyway, it's irrelevant, since we are quite happy with what we have here
19:18:08  <Belugas> netsplits, if i can remembver the right words... which i doubt
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20:10:32  <eemeli>
20:10:47  <eemeli> is there a reason why some of the signals are two-way?
20:13:25  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:14:39  <Belugas> two ways allow to choose between the ways
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20:34:07  <fjb> Hello
20:35:04  <eemeli> 23:14 <Belugas> two ways allow to choose between the ways
20:35:10  <eemeli> can you explain that
20:35:13  <eemeli> im not understanding it :S
20:35:20  <eemeli> theres 2 ways and a 1 way behind the 2way
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20:39:43  <Belugas>
20:39:58  <Belugas> read!
20:40:00  <Belugas> learn!
20:40:12  <Belugas> understnad :)
20:40:18  <SmatZ> hehe
20:40:21  <Belugas> it's a bit simple ;)
20:42:42  <eemeli> i still dont get it :R
20:43:05  <eemeli> i mean the combos
20:43:09  <eemeli> why are they two way
20:43:55  <frosch123> in the old days pathfinders required exit signals to be two-way signals to work.
20:44:17  <frosch123> I guess if you use the NTP pathfinder for trains that is still true.
20:44:26  <frosch123> for yapf it is not needed
20:44:37  <frosch123> don't know about npf
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20:56:30  <dih> yapf does require 2 way though to have a 'choice'
20:57:07  <dih> i.e. if both paths lead to the same dest. yapf would normally choose the shorter (and with less penalty)
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21:18:25  <Noldo> dih: what are you talking about?
21:18:58  <eemeli> he's trying to explain signals to me D:
21:19:31  <SpComb> kill(-1, SIGTERM);
21:19:37  <SpComb> enjoy ur signals
21:19:59  <dih> lol
21:20:25  <dih> eemeli: just read that wiki page, over and over, and try the things it sais in a single player game
21:20:42  <Noldo> why would yapf have been coded to need two-ways for a choice?
21:21:14  <Noldo> that need was already removed by npf before that and it would have been a major step backwards
21:21:28  <Rubidium> SpComb: killing the idle process is much nicer
21:21:56  <SpComb> the idle process?
21:22:23  <SpComb> what is this idle process that you speak of?
21:23:24  <Rubidium> <- something like that (had that once)
21:24:46  <SpComb> ah, some kernel-internal thing
21:28:34  <dih> Noldo: i think we might be using a different understanding of 'choice'
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21:30:13  <Noldo> ok
21:30:27  <Mido> alright i need help or something. why do i constantly get disconnected from multiplayer games with NO error message
21:30:33  <Noldo> do you have time and interest to elaborate?
21:30:56  <dih> mido: what does the server say?
21:31:05  <Mido> nothing.
21:31:12  <dih> i am doubting that
21:31:20  <Mido> nothing at all, i just suddenly return to the main menu without warning
21:31:28  <dih> the server silly
21:31:33  <dih> not your client
21:32:15  <dih> and if the server returnes to the intro screen, dont complain about your connection dropping!!
21:32:17  <sanity> The newest nightlys "industies"-list is f*ucked
21:32:30  <Mido> how can i know? it doesnt say anything in the console
21:32:41  <dih> ??
21:32:44  <dih> what setup?
21:32:46  <sanity> R13378
21:32:50  <dih> are you using autopilot Mido?
21:32:53  *** sanity is now known as Sanity
21:33:04  <dih> it always sais something on at least the console
21:33:11  <dih> (dedicated server that is)
21:33:17  <Mido> i dont even know what autopilot is
21:33:25  <dih> generally, every server will display a message as to _why_ a client dropped out
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21:34:09  <Mido> damnit, it just did it again
21:34:25  <Mido> absolutely nothing in the console
21:34:37  <dih> Mido: i am assuming you are client (connecting to another server), right?
21:34:46  <Mido> yes
21:35:04  <dih> are you the server admin? or do you know or have means to contact the server admin?
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21:35:23  <Mido> no, this happens on a lot of servers
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21:35:38  <dih> Mido: that is not the point
21:36:01  <dih> the point is, can you or can you not find out what the message on the server is, was to why the client disconnected
21:36:07  <dih> not what your client is telling you!
21:36:42  <dih> are you playing a clean release? or is it some patched something from the forums or selfcompiled after you patching it
21:36:44  <Mido> i dont think so.
21:36:59  <Mido> clean release, yes.
21:37:16  <dih> which version?
21:37:22  <Mido> latest, 0.6.1
21:37:27  <eemeli> what server u playin on?
21:37:36  <eemeli> i can join and see what msg you get when you drop
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21:37:51  <Mido> !SWE!.Highspeed.Connection
21:38:08  <eemeli> i was kinda hoping for an ip D:
21:38:53  <dih> then look it up in the servers list (
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21:40:46  <Mido>
21:41:04  <eemeli> ya im there whats your nick
21:41:15  <Mido> Mido...
21:41:17  <Mido> >_>
21:41:39  <eemeli> dont see you in the client list
21:41:59  <eemeli> did you just drop again?
21:42:32  <eemeli> "Player has left the game (kicked by server)"
21:42:40  <dih> now that is something else
21:42:53  <eemeli> they were telling him not to steal from someones coal mine :d
21:43:00  <dih> Mido: you need to perhaps change your nick
21:43:18  <dih> Player is not always welcome
21:43:30  <dih> make sure it sais .e.g. Mido in the Multiplayer screen
21:43:54  <eemeli> now you were connecting, there was a long pause about 10 seconds, and then "Connection lost"
21:44:01  <eemeli> and unpause
21:44:03  <Mido> no, player was another guy
21:44:09  <Mido> he was kicked for being a douchebag
21:45:13  <Rubidium> connection lost == unstable (inter)net connection
21:45:52  <Mido> why are there never any north american servers
21:45:53  <Mido> -_-
21:46:12  <Touqen> because there aren't that many north american's that play?
21:46:22  <Mido> there are quite a few canadians
21:46:25  <dih> they play OpenNATD
21:46:34  <dih> NorthAmericanTycoon
21:46:51  <Touqen> OpenStealYourMoneyAndRuinYourEconomyDeluxe
21:47:19  <Rubidium> aren't Americans more into the whole FPS/Flight Sim stuff?
21:47:50  <dih> Rubidium: have you met Egon Shooter lately? :-P
21:48:02  <Rubidium> never heard of
21:48:18  <dih> fps also are refered to 'ego shooters'
21:48:21  <dih> :-S
21:48:45  <dih> ego = i ?
21:48:59  <Touqen> superego and id
21:49:40  <Rubidium> the major problem with the US is that the public transport generally sucks
21:50:07  <dih> ^^
21:50:32  <Touqen> We're a very car centric society.
21:51:14  <Touqen> Cars intrigue americans more than trains.
21:53:12  <Touqen> All of our public transit networks are on life support.
21:55:43  <Rubidium> and it can work so nicely if done properly
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21:56:13  <Touqen> Americans are civically challenged.
21:56:49  <Touqen> There isn't anyway we competently build a workable rail network.
21:57:30  <Touqen> Our local transit organization is two years late and several million dollars behind budget on a BUS STOP.
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21:57:53  <jordi> hi
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21:58:46  <jordi> I was about to prepare 0.6.1 Debian/Uubntu packages, and I noticed this:
21:58:48  <jordi> Due to a bug that can crash clients that get the server list we suggest you to update to 0.6.1 when you regularly play multiplayer games.
21:59:26  <jordi> Does this have security implications as in crashes makes client execute arbitrary code, and so on?
22:01:00  <Rubidium> don't know exactly about the security implications
22:03:35  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13379 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13255): drive side can't be changed in intro
22:04:25  <Rubidium> jordi: what happens is that an array with pointers is going beyond it's bounds. The pointers are made with new so they should be quite random.
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22:05:23  <Mido> by the way, regarding the whole mass transport by country thing.
22:05:32  <Mido> im pretty sure japan is beating everybody
22:05:35  <Rubidium> so technically one can't engineer some bad code, but it could randomly happen (the chance it probably low though)
22:05:55  <Mido> the maglev in japan now...
22:06:02  <Rubidium> Mido: if they'd turn the heating down a little and let their Shinkansens run more on time, then yes
22:06:12  <Rubidium> maglev in Japan is just a test project
22:06:24  <Mido> it works, does it not?
22:06:33  <Rubidium> a train goes over it
22:06:41  <Rubidium> but Germany had one too
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22:08:27  <dih> and in germany people were allowed to notice what if fees like when the train goes over something ;-P
22:09:31  <Rubidium> yeah... DB has always issues with toolboxes and sheep
22:10:12  <dih> well... the sheep have the bigger issues :-P
22:10:27  <dih> bigger and faster issues
22:10:50  <dih> issues that will really crunch them to bits if they dont look out
22:11:08  <dih> i mean - they could end up being scrambled
22:11:15  <fjb> But cheep are cheap.
22:11:39  <dih> cheep?
22:12:00  <fjb> Sheep
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22:14:20  <Rubidium> jordi: there are some tricks in place that should reduce the chance that it accidentally crashes clients, but one can still willfully crash 0.6.0 clients with ease
22:17:04  <Rubidium> (and all 0.5.X clients too)
22:19:05  <dih> remotely is that?
22:20:22  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:20:22  <Rubidium> any client that gets the server list <= 0.6.0 && > 0.4.8
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22:25:20  <dih> so has there been a change in how the client handles the list in 0.6.1 or has there been a change how the master server sends the list?
22:25:25  <dih> i am guessing the first
22:25:31  <dih> anyhow
22:25:35  <dih> i am off to bed
22:25:42  <dih> have a good night :_)
22:25:44  <Rubidium> actually both
22:25:56  <dih> oh?
22:26:00  <dih> nice
22:26:01  <Rubidium> but the latter to reduce the impact for 0.6.0
22:26:11  <dih> ah
22:26:11  <Rubidium> as the masterserver change doesn't fix anything
22:26:23  <Rubidium> only makes it less likely to happen
22:26:27  <dih> interesting :-)
22:26:43  <dih> i'll have to have a look at the code :-)
22:26:58  <Rubidium> but if you know what you're doing then the changes are totally pointless
22:27:07  <dih> but right now my eye lids are experiencing gravity :-P
22:27:25  <Rubidium> lie on your back
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22:27:38  <Rubidium> and rotate your monitor 180 degrees
22:27:50  <dih> Thanks for the info Rubidium! (on the network stuff)
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22:28:13  <dih> and good night
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22:30:55  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13380 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Fix (r13327): MSVC signed/unsigned warning
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22:34:59  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13381 /branches/noai/ (99 files in 10 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync with trunk r13325:13380
22:35:06  <Tim__> Hey everyone! If you open the industry List, you can only sort it alphabetically, but not after transported or type... Is this bug known already?
22:35:15  <Tim__> Or is this just me?`
22:35:37  <glx> it's a dropdown
22:36:00  <Tim__> Yes i know, the interface has changed, but even if i choose "transported" it will not sort after that, but still only alphabetically
22:37:14  <glx> hmm indeed sorting is strange
22:37:55  * Pikka|afk hmms at OTTD version numbers
22:37:59  *** Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka
22:38:30  <Pikka> do releases really have the build number "80000", or do they have "8<build number>"?
22:39:54  <glx> for newgrf?
22:40:19  <Pikka> yes...
22:40:49  <glx> <-- that's what is in the code
22:41:08  <Pikka> right
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22:41:32  <Pikka> so it's 80000.  that's kind of annoying!
22:41:45  <glx> the goal is to have release always > beta
22:42:05  <glx> or trunk
22:42:25  <Pikka> yeah, but it means I can't just check the revision number if I want later than a certain build, because then it won't work in releases
22:42:45  <Tim__> So what about that sorting bug... Someone feels like reporting it, or is it already known?
22:43:21  <Pikka> I guess I will just have to have two checks, one for revision number and one for 0.6.2 or later.
22:43:25  <glx> 0 << 28 | 7 << 24 | 0 << 20 | 0 << 19 | (13380 & ((1 << 19) - 1)) <-- current trunk
22:45:27  <glx> release would be  0 << 28 | 7 << 24 | 0 << 20 | 1 << 19 | (13380 & ((1 << 19) - 1))
22:45:58  <jordi> Rubidium: if you can't craft a packet that would create a situation where the crash would do bad things, I gugess it's good enough
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22:55:26  <Rubidium> Pikka: why do you need to test for 0.6.2 or later?
22:56:27  <Pikka> for 19th century stuff, Rubidium
22:56:42  <Pikka> needs the long date check var2s that Belugas has just added.
22:57:24  <glx> then it will be
22:57:29  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13382 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AICargo::GetTownEffect()
22:57:54  <Pikka> glx: are the current nightlies 0.7.0?
22:58:00  <glx> yes
22:58:17  <glx> without the bit 19
22:58:18  <Pikka> ah, okay then!
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23:05:38  <Ammler> pikka, I have copied the nfo code from openttdw.nfo:
23:07:08  <Pikka> yep Ammler, cheers
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