Log for #openttd on 12th June 2008:
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06:17:05  <Ammler> good morning OTTD
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06:41:34  <peter1138> is it?
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06:45:40  <TiberiusTeng> good afternoon OTTD
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06:46:22  <TiberiusTeng> my localtime is +7 hours related to peter1138, +6 hours to Ammler :p
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06:57:44  <Ammler> interesting, http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=37884 (any idea, how they did it?)
07:00:15  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: can you read that? http://openttd.5d6d.com/ what is that page about?
07:00:51  <TiberiusTeng> OpenTTD Chinese Forum
07:01:11  <TiberiusTeng> in simplified Chinese though ... yes, I can read that.
07:01:41  <Ammler> that forum reached to spam on ottd servers.
07:01:57  <Ammler> I didn't find something on the coop logs, yet.
07:02:51  <TiberiusTeng> ahh ... spamming's how they did things
07:03:22  <TiberiusTeng> some people in China just DDoS'ed one of the largest gaming forum in Taiwan a few weeks ago
07:03:48  <TiberiusTeng> only because they refused to publish ad's for some WoW private servers
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07:04:41  <Ammler> That chinese forum doesn't sell something?
07:04:55  <TiberiusTeng> no
07:05:01  <TiberiusTeng> it's just like tt-forums
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07:06:43  <Ammler> So it is possible to "just" send the chat udp packets and a server does show them?
07:07:08  <Ammler> no need to be a client?
07:10:12  <TiberiusTeng> I'm not sure, not familiar with networking part of source code
07:10:29  <TiberiusTeng> seem they did many patches as well ... (but duplicated some work on tt-forums :(
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07:13:36  <Ammler> (like stealing the credits?)
07:14:45  <TiberiusTeng> I don't know if they stealed patches or patching the code on their own.
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07:16:05  <TiberiusTeng> they do link to tt-forums related threads while discussing ...
07:16:36  <planetmaker> good morning all
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07:16:57  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: anything about "hacking" foreign servers :-)
07:17:25  <Ammler> hey planetmaker
07:18:55  <planetmaker> [09:16]	<TiberiusTeng>	they do link to tt-forums related threads while discussing ... <-- too bad.
07:19:14  <Ammler> planetmaker: if you are working on the sign, a move sign fucntion would be nice... :-)
07:19:33  <planetmaker> "move sign" not "remove sign"?
07:19:38  <Ammler> yes
07:19:49  <planetmaker> hehe :). But I'm a dumb patch updater only :P
07:19:53  <Ammler> the remove is in trunk long time
07:20:02  <TiberiusTeng> planetmaker, "why don't they join tt-forums discussion" ?
07:20:03  <planetmaker> Didn't work with r13480.
07:20:13  <planetmaker> at least not ctrl+click
07:20:19  <planetmaker> did test beforehand.
07:20:56  <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: exactly that's my question and what I wonder about.
07:21:01  <Ammler> (lack of english, most time, like the german forums)
07:21:13  <planetmaker> ^ that's the only explanation I see, too
07:21:20  <TiberiusTeng> I think's the language problem
07:21:42  <planetmaker> Ammler: how does a quick "remove sign" work then in trunk?
07:21:48  <TiberiusTeng> there's not much people in Taiwan can read/write English actually
07:22:00  <TiberiusTeng> (and you may already feel my English's not good. :D)
07:22:10  <Ammler> planetmaker: I meant the button
07:22:30  <planetmaker> hehe. If you once read some manuals to technical appliances, the lack of English language proficiency becomes obvious :P
07:22:53  <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: yours is fine :)
07:23:27  <TiberiusTeng> programming resource's all in English, I don't have choice but force myself to learn it :p
07:23:48  <planetmaker> Ammler: yeah, but the button is a slow two-click process. Ctrl-Click is nice and easy :). GUI vs. keyboard short-cut.
07:24:01  <planetmaker> Same with signal GUI and Ctrl+signal cycle
07:24:06  <TiberiusTeng> Ammler, I think it's not outside-spammable
07:24:09  <planetmaker> (same as)
07:24:22  <Ammler> ctrl is used way too less in ottd :-P
07:24:30  <planetmaker> ^ hehe. exactly :)
07:24:31  <TiberiusTeng> maybe he was joining as spectator then send those messages
07:25:19  <TiberiusTeng> but don't you feel that Ctrl's very hard do 'document' well?
07:25:23  <Ammler> yeah, and used chinese chars
07:25:31  <Ammler> that's why he had no nick.
07:25:36  <TiberiusTeng> in a way it feels like ioctl() in Unix kernels ...
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07:26:14  <TiberiusTeng> maybe he didn't aware that many OTTD players lack a font setting that can display Chinese
07:27:07  <Ammler> planetmaker: I think about 4 arrows (<X>) at the GUI
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07:27:30  <planetmaker> indeed a nice idea :)
07:28:02  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: strange thing is, dih had the spam at january 19.
07:28:16  <Ammler> and the one in the tt-forums at june 6.
07:28:32  <Ammler> and the msg was the same.
07:28:48  <planetmaker> script kiddie
07:29:19  <TiberiusTeng> yeah, OTTD already can do some network scripting
07:29:39  <Ammler> indeed
07:29:52  <Ammler> would be easy to make a alias for that msg.
07:30:29  <TiberiusTeng> maybe I should register an account on that forum and write a post about this matter.
07:32:05  <Ammler> planetmaker: moste time you would like to move the sign only 1-2 tiles.
07:32:15  <Ammler> -e
07:32:41  <planetmaker> yeah. I know from my own experience. E.g. when voting or plan building on the PS :)
07:32:55  <Ammler> yeah, exactly
07:33:22  <Ammler> or if you need to point to a signal or other error
07:35:49  <Ammler> hehe, and if you are on that, you could use same function for the station signs :-P
07:36:57  <planetmaker> hehe :)
07:37:21  <planetmaker> Also nice idea, though I'm not entirely sure we want that there.
07:38:05  <planetmaker> Currently - IIRC - they're placed in the centre(?) of the initially built station, but are moved, if the centre tile gets removed
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07:38:08  <planetmaker> or something like that
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07:39:36  <TiberiusTeng> done. looking forward for replies ......
07:40:38  <planetmaker> he. I guess it's up to you to wait for replies and be our router - so to say
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07:44:06  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: something else, I already mentioned in the thread about, you should create your own thread about the patch pack, it is quite hidden where it is now...
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07:45:38  <TiberiusTeng> ahh, that ching
07:45:41  <TiberiusTeng>  /thing/
07:46:09  <planetmaker> ^^ I support that notion
07:46:42  <TiberiusTeng> actually I'm not really want to 'take over' Roest's work, and not sure if ignoring following 'support requests' is good, so ...
07:47:04  <Ammler> I miss a patch option for the middle stop, else it looks really nice.
07:47:08  <TiberiusTeng> well, then just make it a new thread and see how thing goes?
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07:47:28  <TiberiusTeng> that's on my TODO list for sure, personally I wish it made the way into trunk
07:47:42  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: roest isn't the only one with patch packs
07:47:46  <Ammler> there was many before
07:48:02  <Ammler> and will be many after
07:48:05  <TiberiusTeng> but then someone asked about per-station settings, and it is not an easy task ...
07:48:08  <TiberiusTeng> for sure :)
07:48:50  <TiberiusTeng> will editing the first post bump the thread to top ?
07:49:03  <Ammler> no
07:49:28  <Ammler> that's why you see post like "updated, see 1. post" :-)
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07:50:52  <planetmaker> IMO it's not a big shame to issue a patch pack and kind let it decay after some time.
07:51:09  <planetmaker> It's quite impossible to maintain all (initially incorporated) patches for longer times
07:51:30  <planetmaker> I mean, what I'm doing with wwottdgd is sort-of quite the same...
07:51:43  <planetmaker> He, and with your updates you made quite a few things easier for me :)
07:52:35  <planetmaker> the difference is the aim of the patch pack only.
07:53:35  <planetmaker> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=28676&start=140 <-- Ammler, you may know what kind of roads those dirt roads are. I'm curious
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07:55:10  <Ammler> us outside roads
07:55:20  <Ammler> not outside early stage
07:55:50  <planetmaker> they're nice. are they in the grf pack?
07:55:55  <TiberiusTeng> for things not in trunk, patches are very easy to crash into other
07:56:07  <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: hehe. Yes.
07:56:09  <TiberiusTeng> like, while updating some window-class tables, command-tables
07:56:11  <Ammler> planetmaker: yeah, long time.
07:56:22  <TiberiusTeng> I wonder if there's a better way to handle this kind of diff :Q
07:56:30  <planetmaker> Ammler: I wondered because I've never seen them before in any of our games.
07:56:50  <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: I guess quite difficult.
07:56:50  <Ammler> because we do not play in early years.
07:57:06  <planetmaker> Ah, so they're only around in early years? Hm... a pity
07:57:32  <TiberiusTeng> no upper context lines in unified diff, etc ...
07:57:35  <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: for that reason, e.g. I made myself a combined patch of infrastructure sharing and close airports as they always clash
07:57:39  <Ammler> hehe, maybe there is a parameter to have them instantly
07:57:48  <TiberiusTeng> but I guess the patch program won't like this
07:58:25  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: do you work with git?
07:58:41  <Ammler> your windows binary shows a strange rev.
07:58:44  <planetmaker> TiberiusTeng: I guess that's not the big problem. The big problem would be that it's very easily ambigeous and you'll more often have broken patches
07:58:52  <planetmaker> he is :)
07:59:08  <planetmaker> (IIRC)
07:59:11  <TiberiusTeng> I work with Mercurial
07:59:16  <planetmaker> :P
07:59:45  <TiberiusTeng> it's a joy to see OpenTTD have a mercurial repository, and it's synchronized with SVN ! :D
07:59:52  <TiberiusTeng> made my life much more easier
08:00:05  <TiberiusTeng> git was a headache to setup in Windows environment
08:00:37  <Ammler> Suggstion for rev: use SVN rev and maybe a suffix like -tpp (tiberisus patch pack)
08:01:04  <Ammler> would make it easier, if you like to use it in MP mode.
08:01:17  <TiberiusTeng> will do it in next version. (it's now generated by a script in OTTD source)
08:02:25  <Ammler> didn't test it self, just read some guys complained about in german forums.
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08:04:28  <Ammler> they needed to join with console parameter -n
08:05:06  <Ammler> but the positive thing is, it looks like working in MP (no desyncs) :-)
08:05:11  <TiberiusTeng> playing online with other specified version(s) ?
08:05:23  <TiberiusTeng> I think it's impossible to do this :Q
08:05:34  <TiberiusTeng> that's a really good news for me, and those patch authors :)
08:06:28  <Ammler> the patch itself should be a SVN from trunk (for BOTTD)
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08:06:50  <Ammler> and builds should always show the same rev as the SVN patch :-)
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08:08:40  <TiberiusTeng> ok :)
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08:21:10  <planetmaker> [10:00]	<Ammler>	Suggstion for rev: use SVN rev and maybe a suffix like -tpp (tiberisus patch pack) <-- for wwottdgd I made myself a diff which attaches wwottdgd to the rev.ccp.in so that I won't forget and don't mind a different call to ./configure
08:21:50  <Ammler> hmm, why not edit rev.cpp.in?
08:21:58  <planetmaker> nars roads: they have a patch option - and a very nice readme to explain things. He, something for the next psg
08:22:05  <planetmaker> Ammler: that's what the diff does :)
08:22:26  <planetmaker> it's a patch for rev.cpp.in
08:22:32  <Ammler> ah, missread :P
08:22:41  <planetmaker> wasn't clear there, I guess :)
08:22:52  <Wuisch> What is wwottdgd? WorldWideOnlineTransportTycoonDeluxeGooD?
08:23:09  <planetmaker> world wide OpenTTD gaming day.
08:23:17  <Wuisch> Close
08:23:23  <peter1138> does it need a special day?
08:23:23  <Ammler> !s/ing/e/
08:23:29  <planetmaker> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/World_Wide_OpenTTD_Game_Day/2
08:23:34  <Ammler> :-)
08:23:44  <planetmaker> peter1138: to play with 55 clients in one game: yes :)
08:23:59  <planetmaker> you need more admins than usual
08:24:10  <peter1138> pah, where's the 16 company patch?
08:24:28  <Ammler> yeah, that one wasn't long alive.
08:24:28  <planetmaker> it's still around somewhere, but IMO not needed for that...
08:24:42  <planetmaker> ... and probably breaks many things
08:24:48  <peter1138> it is when you have subsidiaries too ;)
08:24:54  <peter1138> planetmaker: not when it's done properly
08:25:38  <planetmaker> peter1138: but that needs testing :). We'll see how the patch pack works. If we do it right (I hope so), we're off with very little admin tasks
08:26:09  <peter1138> does it include pbs?
08:26:16  <planetmaker> peter1138: no :S
08:26:21  <peter1138> :o
08:26:32  <planetmaker> Actually it is heavily incompatible with infrastructure sharing
08:26:51  <planetmaker> for a reason I couldn't figure out. But the title screen crashes to the OS without notice
08:26:53  <Ammler> peter1138: that depense on trunk :P
08:27:23  <planetmaker> ^ and that :)
08:27:27  <peter1138> depense?
08:27:52  <planetmaker> quote from the wiki page: " PBS 	 3 	50% 		 will only be included over trunk"
08:27:58  <planetmaker> :P
08:28:07  <planetmaker> (I know, bad English)
08:28:22  <Ammler> depent?
08:28:26  <planetmaker> depends.
08:29:25  <Ammler> with current IS, YAPP is also not playable.
08:29:46  <peter1138> IS?
08:29:53  <planetmaker> IS = infrastructure sharing
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08:30:15  <Ammler> I hope, those guys will come back, we need some modifications there.
08:30:28  <planetmaker> yeah, I strongly hope so, too...
08:30:47  <planetmaker> That's a patch I like A LOT :)
08:31:15  <planetmaker> but it's far from a state of being somewhat ready for consideration into trunk :S
08:31:45  <planetmaker> And it's BIG.
08:32:23  <Ammler> well, it is even not ready for wwottdgd
08:32:58  <planetmaker> well, it's IMO. We don't have bancrupt companies and we admins can move between companies
08:33:10  <planetmaker> but it's not nice to have to rely on it
08:33:14  <dih> mornin
08:33:27  <Ammler> well, I won't be a admin then :-)
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08:33:38  <planetmaker> hehe
08:33:54  <TiberiusTeng> which patch are you talking about?
08:33:55  <planetmaker> you're forced-recruited for that task, Ammler ;)
08:34:00  <dih> IS
08:34:03  <dih> ops
08:34:07  <Ammler> imagine how so solve train issues, fi track and train belongs to differ comapnies.
08:34:10  <dih> hmm
08:34:18  <dih> irssi is mucking up for me again!
08:34:42  <planetmaker> Ammler: just disconnect a track. Can be done with a bit communication
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08:35:12  <iAN_> hello and good morning to every single one
08:35:21  <dih> in wwottdgd admin can do anything ;-)
08:35:26  <Ammler> hey iAN_ :-)
08:35:27  <planetmaker> but no doubt, your proposal for access to a train for both, train owner and track owner is a very handy feature there
08:35:35  <planetmaker> hello iAN_
08:35:38  <dih> Ammler: how's the turkey? :-D
08:36:08  <Ammler> :-)
08:36:14  <peter1138> la la
08:36:26  <Rubidium> pomtepom
08:36:30  <Ammler> we do not need to speak about it, EM is gone for us.
08:36:43  <dih> heh
08:37:03  <dih> at least you have to only soccer playing turkey in the world :-D
08:37:21  <dih> Ammler: does that mean you are not gonna even watch other games?
08:37:30  <Ammler> no
08:37:39  <dih> peter1138: trallalla
08:37:45  <dih> Ammler: why not?
08:37:47  <dih> c'mon
08:38:01  <dih> be a good sportsman and cheer for another country
08:38:02  <Ammler> no to "not gonna"
08:38:24  <dih> so you're gonna watch?
08:38:32  <Ammler> :-) yes, I will
08:38:43  <dih> that was a confusing answer then :-P
08:38:48  <Wuisch> I don't really watch it but have we won yet?
08:38:57  <Ammler> we?
08:39:08  <Ammler> yep, you have
08:39:13  <dih> Wuisch: yes, the EU has won
08:39:14  <Rubidium> Wuisch: OpenTTD isn't a country in Europe, so no we haven't
08:39:16  <dih> congratulations!
08:40:07  <dih> Rubidium: shame, we should demonstrate to become 'independant' :-P
08:40:09  <Wuisch> that would be awesome though starting our own country of TransportTycoonia
08:40:28  <dih> i would not wanna live there!
08:40:39  <dih> not if all players were gonna come
08:40:42  <dih> just think of all the tourists
08:40:57  <Wuisch> where when you travel to somewhere you don't actually look at where the transport is going you just hop in
08:41:04  <Ammler> it's like in germany with the coal ps
08:41:06  <dih> Rubidium could not even go shopping without getting bugged "my patch my patch"...
08:43:16  <Wuisch> and the air smells like warm rootbeer
08:43:16  <Ammler> and it's like in past, before the world became a ball
08:44:11  <Ammler> was that also the time, when football has born?
08:44:32  <Wuisch> and once youve done some landscaping everyone hates you
08:45:20  <Ammler> did they play with the disks before?
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08:47:25  <Wuisch> a 2 dimensional immage that would change depending on which direction it was going
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09:13:38  <iAN_> Ammler: where are you from?
09:13:42  <iAN_> hi Pikka :-)
09:14:03  <Ammler> iAN_: CH
09:14:32  <iAN_> ah. and you "lost" already?
09:14:40  <Ammler> yep, 2. times
09:14:43  <iAN_> :-/
09:14:55  <Ammler> too many for qualifying
09:15:09  <iAN_> hope you allow the other teams to continue playing. And not booting them out of CH now =9
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09:15:30  <Ammler> well, it could be expected :-)
09:16:15  <Ammler> (that we don't qualify)
09:17:18  <Ammler> but the way it happend was ugly. :-P
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09:25:26  <TiberiusTeng> Ammler, I've updated the executable file to use 'r13481M-TibPP' as version string. :)
09:25:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13482 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Use "extended bytes" in Actions 3 and 4 for vehicles
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09:25:42  <TiberiusTeng> ... 5 minutes too early? :p
09:27:15  * TiberiusTeng go to play MGS4
09:27:28  <peter1138> not really, nothing uses it
09:28:33  <TiberiusTeng> is it supporting a new NewGRF functionality (Action 3/4) ?
09:29:25  <TiberiusTeng> web interfaces aren't updated yet ... hmm
09:29:35  <peter1138> it's adding newgrf functionality, heh
09:29:50  <peter1138> but no grf will use them yet (possibly ever)
09:30:39  <TiberiusTeng> is it documented on web? ttdpatch.net GRF Specs? I'm reading the doc about these 2 functions, but still don't get it
09:30:53  <TiberiusTeng> maybe I should wait for that revision diff to appear =)
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09:31:40  <TiberiusTeng> ahh, I see, field size expansion.
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09:33:12  <peter1138> not very exciting
09:34:06  <TiberiusTeng> makes me think of the new vehicle window needing a flexible filtering mechanism =)
09:37:27  <peter1138> yes it does
09:37:50  <peter1138> but not just on grf :)
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10:14:18  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13483 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: oops... IsBuildable thought trees were not buildable, silly of course (tnx Yexo)
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10:15:10  <Wuisch> kinda wierd I seem to only use pikka grfs...Oh no wait got zephyris ones aswell... phew was worried that pikka might start a monopoly on cool grfs' and then start demanding ...stuff
10:15:22  <Pikka> Wuisch: gimme stuff!
10:15:41  <Wuisch> But you don't want my stuff... My stuff smells
10:15:53  <Pikka> oh, okay then
10:16:32  <Wuisch> stinky hundred dollar bills
10:19:45  <Wuisch> anyhow is there away to set your starting amount of money to zero ? I always lose about 5k before I finally decide on where to start building :P
10:20:31  <peter1138> so you'd rather have -5k instead of 95k?
10:21:18  <Wuisch> well atleast then I wouldn't lose money on interest :p
10:21:35  <Wuisch> those 5$ make a diffrence! :P
10:22:05  <Pikka> Wuisch: pay off your loan at the beginning and then reborrow it when you're ready to start building?
10:22:55  <Wuisch> I'm always to slow to pay off the last 10k ... and I ussually forget :P Anyhow just asking if there was a way if there isn't no biggie :p
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10:29:14  <planetmaker> peter1138: just out of interest: what's your opinion on Roujins ingame rivers patch?
10:30:08  <planetmaker> or rather a possibility to build rivers ingame at all
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10:34:43  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13484 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
10:34:43  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix [API CHANGE]: AITile::IsBuildable() now returns 'true' on coast tiles
10:34:43  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix [API CHANGE]: Renamed AITile::IsWater() to AITile::IsWaterTile() to be more consistant; also, it no longer returns 'true' on coast tiles
10:34:43  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AITile::IsCoastTile(). Building on such tiles is in general more expensive
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11:15:59  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13485 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix: let ships also navigate on half-tile sloped watery rail tiles.
11:16:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13486 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: function to determine what TransportTypes a tile holds.
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11:22:58  <Wuisch> Success I finally m ade a 3 way junction that works It only took 5 tries! :P
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13:03:32  <yorick> {     WWT_IMGBTN,   RESIZE_NONE,   14,   136,   178,    14,    35, SPR_IMG_BRIDGE,             STR_BUILD_AQUEDUCT} <-- is there any documentation on what these numbers mean?
13:03:47  <Belugas> no
13:03:53  <Belugas> not requred
13:04:00  <Belugas> qhen you know why they are there
13:04:16  <Progman> lol
13:04:23  <yorick> size & position, right?
13:04:27  <planetmaker> hehe. yes
13:04:30  <Progman> of course you dont need the documentation if you know them ;)
13:04:31  <planetmaker> coordinates
13:04:38  <SmatZ> yorick: search for "struct Widget"
13:04:58  <glx> first number is color
13:05:03  <planetmaker> looking at them you learn that the buttons have a size of 21 pixels each
13:05:23  <glx> then left, right, top, bottom
13:05:53  <planetmaker> (except some, like this :P )
13:06:50  <Belugas> a number should always be understood under the context it is used.  Right now, we are talking about widgets, therefor, they are related to widget properties...
13:06:57  <Belugas> no big magic there
13:07:00  <SmatZ> hehe
13:07:41  <yorick> trying to add aqueduct button, but the last time I tried to add a button to that window, the sprite was drawn, but outside the window and I couldn't hotkey or click it
13:09:16  <yorick> @calc 178-136
13:09:16  <DorpsGek> yorick: 42
13:09:17  <Belugas> mostly becuase you did not add the button at the right coordinates, and most probably out of the window itself.
13:09:27  <Belugas> this is why you need to understand the system
13:09:36  <yorick> why would that make the hotkey fail?
13:10:06  <yorick> 42...does it answer that on all questions?
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13:10:18  <skidd13> Hi folks
13:10:24  <Belugas> if it failed, it could be because you did not wrote proper support
13:10:25  <Belugas> dunno
13:10:26  <peter1138> it does if that's the answer
13:10:57  <peter1138> mr belugas
13:13:02  <peter1138> hm
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13:16:06  <yorick> shouldn't the scenario editor have a button to remove that desert bit again?
13:16:26  <yorick> we can only add it now
13:16:54  <Rubidium> ctrl?
13:17:09  * yorick slaps ctrl
13:17:13  <SmatZ> hehe
13:17:17  <yorick> those features should be documented
13:17:30  <Rubidium> it now is
13:17:41  <yorick> since 1 minute?
13:17:46  <Rubidium> yup
13:18:48  <Rubidium> http://thegrebs.com/irc/openttd/2008/06/12 <- see?
13:21:52  * yorick adds it to the "hidden features using ctrl" wiki page
13:22:14  <Belugas> mister peter1138!
13:22:20  <Belugas> sorry, waqs a way for a few moments
13:22:52  <yorick> it's already there :(
13:23:11  <peter1138> hah
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13:24:05  * yorick wants configurable hotkeys
13:24:13  <yorick> and console eastereggs
13:24:33  <SpComb> moo
13:24:48  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13487 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_tile.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: tram bits are not to be considered buildable in any case.
13:24:50  <yorick> wrong channel, try #moocows
13:25:48  <yorick> SmatZ felt like he had to moo there :)
13:26:00  <SmatZ> hehe
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13:29:29  <yorick> I think the scenedit terraform gui is too big
13:31:58  <yorick> oh, now I remember, I tried to add the "lock" button (the one that moves ships over slopes)
13:32:22  <yorick> because it wasn't added there once canals and locks became a seperate thing
13:32:23  <Rubidium> it just needs a water build toolbar just like the road toolbar I guess
13:32:36  <yorick> for 3 buttons?
13:32:47  <yorick> Rubidium! Newwaterbuildtoolbar!
13:33:30  * yorick adds sloped bridges to the wishlist
13:33:35  * Rubidium discards yorick as being inconsistent
13:34:04  <yorick> heh
13:35:49  <yorick> I think they should be able to make canals out of rivers
13:36:04  <yorick> and offcourse speed limits for rivers :)
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13:37:41  <yorick> ooh, it asserted!
13:37:54  <yorick> r.right - r.left == 11
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13:39:35  <yorick> could have something to do with me not resizing the window... is that needed?
13:40:02  <planetmaker> yorick: AFAIK yes
13:40:20  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13488 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13485): track wasn't removed on company bankrupcy when there was a ship on lower halftile
13:40:44  <yorick> ok
13:41:13  <yorick> another array of numbers whose functions are unknown
13:41:52  <Belugas> to you :)
13:42:08  <Belugas> because you have not yet dwelve in a search ;)
13:42:17  <Progman> "track wasn't removed on company bankrupcy when there was a ship on lower halftile", always funny how to find such bugs
13:42:21  <Rubidium> it is not an array
13:42:52  <yorick> doesn't matter, it's separated by ,
13:43:23  <planetmaker> http://bugs.openttd.org/?getfile=2979 <-- yorick: you might have a look there and just do it analogously
13:46:54  <yorick> does the caption also care?
13:48:07  <SmatZ> yorick: some widgets have fixed size you have to obey
13:48:14  <SmatZ> like closebox
13:48:17  <Wuisch> OBEY!
13:48:20  <yorick> and stickybox
13:48:25  <SmatZ> yeah :)
13:49:31  <yorick> ooh...my stickybox was some 60 pixels wide
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13:59:03  <yorick> heh, it works :)
13:59:14  <yorick> but it's called DDSP_BUILD_BRIDGE
14:00:45  <peter1138> don't you fucking know what you are
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14:02:12  <Wuisch> A banana?
14:02:40  <yorick> Wuisch, possibly even a coconut
14:04:31  <Wuisch> darnit have to travel to the big city soon... I hate capitals... they're always so crowded and ya know... have other people in it
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14:05:21  <Touqen> Oh noes. Not peoples!
14:05:54  <Noldo> you should live in a country that doesn't have big cities
14:07:27  <Wuisch> I did but then I moved well not really a country but a pronvince
14:07:29  <yorick> 10 million live in the edgecity!
14:08:07  <Wuisch> 2/3ds of our entire populatoin... No wonder Its always so crowded here
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14:10:26  <Belugas> [09:58] <@peter1138> don't you fucking know what you are  <--- :D
14:10:36  <Belugas> i was just wondering waht to put on ;)
14:10:52  <dih> a dress belugas :-P
14:11:02  <ln> your clock is off by several hours
14:11:16  * Belugas does not wear a dress, but a wetsuit :P
14:11:37  <dih> what on earth do you want to wear a wet suit for?
14:11:42  <dih> :-P
14:11:49  <yorick> and where on earth do you live?
14:11:50  <Belugas> not on earth indeed
14:12:01  * peter1138 grumbles at audioscrobbler wmp plugin breaking
14:12:04  <yorick> for diving
14:12:29  <dih> no kidding!
14:12:55  <yorick> ORLY?
14:13:18  <dih> yorick: do you have a auto follow invite?
14:13:29  <yorick> possibly not
14:13:41  <peter1138> oh why the fuck is it only 15:13 :(
14:13:51  <yorick> because it's 16:13
14:14:12  <dih> i know how i could annoy a lot of channels on oftc :-P
14:14:16  <planetmaker> because you look at a clock in that time zone, I guess
14:14:40  <yorick> dih, for inviting me, you'd have to be there yourself
14:14:46  <planetmaker> [16:14]	<dih>	i know how i could annoy a lot of channels on oftc :-P <-- annoying people is easy and no art
14:16:11  <dih> pm: not by doing it myself :-P
14:16:58  <yorick> dih, do you also " i also have the luxury of someone else having done it" <-- think that
14:17:18  <dih> ?
14:17:29  <yorick> nothing
14:17:34  <dih> yorick: you have a day of "i make no sense"?
14:17:40  <dih> oh no - it's every day!
14:17:50  <dih> :-P
14:18:21  <yorick> how true
14:19:18  <SmatZ> hehehe
14:19:53  <yorick> I'd say it's time for a water gui in the scenario editor
14:20:05  <yorick> Rubidium! Newwaterguiinscenedit!
14:20:07  <dih> i really enjoy SmatZ' on-liners :-D
14:20:22  <SmatZ> :)
14:20:40  <dih> yorick: good think your 'say' does not influence openttd too much
14:20:42  <SmatZ> yorick: you won't help anything this way
14:21:34  <yorick> no, I'm currently writing a patch that allows you building aqueducts in terraformgui
14:21:40  <yorick> in scenarioeditor
14:22:23  <dih> i guessed
14:22:39  <dih> yorick you are no different from most 'i want my patch in trunk' patchers
14:23:07  <glx> yorick: you're using the best method to get things not done
14:23:45  * dih knows that method also a wee bit ;-)
14:24:07  * yorick keeps quiet
14:24:13  <dih> good idea!
14:25:53  <yorick> thank you!
14:26:26  <dih> ya welcome
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14:36:35  <yorick> now: adapting the toolbar
14:37:11  <dih> yorick: thought you were gonna keep quiet
14:37:26  <yorick> that's my second me
14:37:42  <dih> you are annoying!
14:37:54  <dih> besides...
14:37:54  <dih> [16:20]  <SmatZ> yorick: you won't help anything this way
14:40:27  <planetmaker> sometimes I build those bus stops in OpenTTD, too:
14:40:29  <planetmaker>  “We're planning on redesigning the bus stop in a 1960s look.”
14:40:30  <planetmaker> Sabine GrÃŒnwald of the MÃŒhlenau retirement home in Hamburg, Germany, ponders how to improve the fake bus stop they installed outside the facility last year. Patients with dementia who wander off tend to collect at the stop, where they can be collected by staff. A bus never actually comes.
14:40:32  <planetmaker> Sources: A. Kurovets, DARPA, Ananova, Times Higher Education, Deutsche Welle
14:41:21  <Mchl> !! that's interesting
14:41:51  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13489 /trunk/src/town_cmd.cpp: -Fix: first determine where to *exactly* build a house before asking a NewGRF whether the location is good instead of possibly moving the house a tile after the NewGRF said the location is good.
14:41:53  <Mchl> has some surrealistic feeling to it
14:42:27  <planetmaker> hehe. yeah, me too :)
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14:42:59  * dih is moving... his house 12 yards to the right!
14:43:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Ammler> I miss a patch option for the middle stop, else it looks really nice. <- patch options break savegame compatibility, that's why i did not include one
14:43:51  <planetmaker> if you've ever seen a car on the street with the sign "house ahead" and you realize after next curve that it's no joke...
14:44:10  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, I thought about that
14:44:20  <Ammler> but the patch patck does break it anyway.
14:44:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, it doesn't
14:44:41  <Ammler> of course, YAPP etc.
14:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> ah, you meant the whole pacck
14:45:04  <Ammler> yeah. :-)
14:46:05  <ln> planetmaker: url to pic?
14:46:15  <Ammler> I discussed already, if it is possible to make something like a console command "trunksave" which clears all nontrunk settings before save.
14:46:34  <planetmaker> ln: there's no URL to my personal memories available. And I haven't scanned those photos yet.
14:46:51  <Ammler> then you could at least keep those patches compatible which doesn't change the map self.
14:48:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, the middle stop should be an orders flag, maybe with a default setting like non-stop
14:48:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> on each go-to order you specify wether the train should stop at the beginning/middle/end of platform
14:49:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> also, middlestop conflicts with the deceleration from RA
14:50:02  <planetmaker> ln: the sign looked like that in that pic, but the street was a national road in the middle of nowhere: http://www-e.uni-magdeburg.de/pfistere/blogpics/gallery.php?pic=house_ahead
14:50:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i don't have the time to do all that
14:50:38  <Ammler> well, you do not play currently, so you should have time :-)
14:50:55  <Ammler> still on strike :P
14:51:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> i play "diploma thesis" instead ;)
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15:04:40  <yorick> ok, off with the keep quiet, I fail at adding a button to a toolbar
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15:08:21  <yorick> but for a brief minute, man could build locks in the scenario editor :)
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15:10:12  <ln> man
15:11:08  <yorick> shush
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15:24:06  <Belugas> yorick, by any chance, do you have an editor who can show you tabs/spaces?
15:24:21  <yorick> I do
15:24:26  <Belugas> and if you do, have you looked at your diff?
15:24:56  <yorick> yes, I have
15:25:10  <yorick> it has auto-indent
15:25:14  <Belugas> well... my friend... look again
15:25:30  <Belugas> i have spotted at  least 4 places where it failed abominably
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15:25:50  <Belugas> nake it 6
15:25:51  <Belugas> make
15:26:49  <yorick> maybe, it has to do with the fact that it can indent with spaces
15:26:53  <glx> only 4 wrong places
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15:29:10  <Belugas> mmh/..
15:29:11  <Belugas> tru34
15:29:50  * yorick only spots 3
15:30:10  <Belugas> +	'I',
15:30:10  <Belugas> +    'B'
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15:30:12  <Belugas> 1)
15:30:16  <Belugas> +	EditorTerraformClick_Transmitter,
15:30:16  <Belugas> +    EditorTerraformClick_Aqueduct
15:30:18  <Belugas> 2)
15:30:23  <Belugas> +                case DDSP_BUILD_BRIDGE:
15:30:24  <Belugas> 3)
15:30:36  <Belugas> +    ETTW_BUILD_AQUEDUCT,                       //< Build aqueduct button
15:30:39  <Belugas> 4)
15:30:42  <Belugas> go fix
15:30:46  <Belugas> plus!
15:31:10  <Belugas> ->    //< Build aqueduct button  <-  what is that comment form?
15:31:24  <Belugas> +{    WWT_IMGBTN,   RESIZE_NONE,   14,   202,   244,    16,    37, SPR_IMG_BRIDGE,             STR_BUILD_AQUEDUCT},                      // ETTW_BUILD_AQUEDUCT
15:31:29  <yorick> yes, I got them
15:31:36  <Belugas> misaligned
15:31:53  <Belugas> le sight, as someone would say...
15:33:01  <yorick> plus, the last one, I copied that, and all of the other widged forms have it
15:33:58  <Belugas> it is misaligned, compared to the ones above and below
15:34:09  <yorick> the comment, or from the 14?
15:34:27  <Belugas> sarting from 14, yes
15:34:45  <yorick> there you go
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15:44:50  <Belugas> better, but not yet.  you should not rely on autoindent or whatever the tool you  are using
15:44:52  <Belugas> plus,
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15:45:21  <Belugas> you are still using the same cursor and the same sprite for the aqueduct as the one for the bridge
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15:45:31  <Belugas> i know, i'm picky
15:46:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm brain ;)
15:49:36  <yorick> Belugas, do you have another one?
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16:01:00  *** fjb [~frank@p5485F5F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
16:01:06  <fjb> Hello
16:02:18  <Belugas> a what
16:02:19  <Belugas> ?
16:02:48  <SmatZ> a nother
16:03:55  <peter1138> another what?
16:04:19  *** Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd
16:04:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have another one: 1
16:06:52  <fjb> Can I have 1, please?
16:07:11  * SpComb hands fjb an i
16:07:38  <fjb> But I wanted an 1.
16:08:26  <SpComb> oh, sorry, they looked quite the same
16:08:38  <SpComb> you'll have to make do with that i 'cause that's all I've got
16:12:58  * peter1138 has a spare l
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16:15:24  <fjb> Hm, no, thank you guys, that is not what I wanted.
16:16:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have this brand new shiny ①, but it costs extra
16:16:33  <Belugas> i'll have another one,please.  Hic
16:16:48  <Belugas> damned bottle... already empty
16:17:17  <yorick> an â?
16:17:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> or if you are interested in antiquarities, have this â
16:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> very rare!
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16:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, sorry, if you want an â, you have to go that way ⇗
16:21:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> or to OBI.
16:21:52  <Belugas> Off By Infinity?
16:21:54  <Belugas> ^_^
16:22:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> sorry, that's one for insiders ;)
16:23:09  <Belugas> boo
16:23:21  <fjb> I can see an OBI from my window. :-)
16:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obi_(Baumarkt) <-- they had a famous commercial, where people were buying tools and building material, and in each shop they went they bought <something>, and asked if they had <something else>, and the seller told them, no you have to go to <some other shop> ... [pause] ... or to OBI.
16:26:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> there's also a parody on that commercial playing with the obvious star wars reference ;)
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16:28:55  <Sacro> ooh
16:29:04  <Sacro> some very nice sounding polish lass has just skyped with me
16:29:34  <peter1138> fucking skype
16:30:22  <fjb> peter1138: Don't confuse Sacro with words like that.
16:30:54  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13490 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Add: a seperate icon for aqueducts
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16:31:07  <peter1138> separate
16:31:45  <Sacro> :op
16:31:52  <Sacro> aquaducts :p
16:32:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> aquaeducts!
16:32:47  <peter1138> as aqueduct is the correct spelling, i will not argue with that
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16:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, it's (der/das) AquÀdukt in German
16:33:27  <peter1138> but as skidd13 is not here, who cares
16:33:41  <peter1138> yes, but it's not in German
16:33:42  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13491 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (openttdgui.nfo openttdgui.pcx): -Add: the icon & cursor used for building aqueducts
16:34:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> and even more funny: you don't capitalise German in German ;)
16:34:55  <Belugas> it's a capital offence
16:35:16  <Belugas> like Ratts of the Capital
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16:36:04  <peter1138> very funny
16:36:09  <peter1138> hilolrious
16:36:33  <yorick> Belugas, did you take over his mind or something?
16:37:01  <peter1138> evening ben
16:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,558638,00.html
16:43:23  <Ammler> omg, germany
16:43:48  <Ammler> 1:0
16:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> what really worries me is that a swiss person is the first to tell that ;)
16:44:43  <yorick> I constantly get the "Can't build aqueduct - already built" message now
16:44:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> you did it wrong.
16:45:49  <yorick> no, because the aqueduct I want to build is built, and I get the message on the same time
16:47:11  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause3: since CH is out, I need a new team to worry about :-)
16:47:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> and you took croatia? :p
16:48:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, if "we" lose to austria, all hell is going to break loose ;)
16:50:06  <Ammler> that would be amazing.
16:50:42  <yorick> Eddi|zuHause3, test with the new commit before saying I did something wrong, please :)
16:51:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> you did something wrong :p
16:51:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> and no, i'm on strike
16:53:12  <yorick> or do you require a screencast?
16:53:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> why would i?
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16:56:02  <yorick> why would you not?
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17:15:28  <yorick> eddi|zuHause3! http://senduit.com/fa718a ! niceandshinyscreencastshowingI'mnotdoingitwrong!
17:15:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't have that kind of bandwidth...
17:16:12  <yorick> 2 MB, you don't have 2 mb?
17:16:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes.
17:16:41  <yorick> I'd take me around 3 seconds to download that
17:17:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> more like 3 minutes here...
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17:17:59  <yorick> your internetz fail :P
17:18:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> @calc 2*1024*8/384/60
17:18:29  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: 0.711111111111
17:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> ok, it's not really 3 minutes, but much more than you think ;)
17:19:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> @calc 2*1024*8/384
17:19:02  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: 42.6666666667
17:19:25  <yorick> 42 seconds
17:19:35  <yorick> @calc 42/3
17:19:36  <DorpsGek> yorick: 14
17:20:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> The Answer is the product of three prime numbers
17:20:40  <Prof_Frink> yes. two and three and three and three.
17:21:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> well ;)
17:22:00  <yorick> just take that 42 seconds to download & watch!
17:22:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> to watch you fail?
17:22:22  <yorick> i.e.
17:22:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> i can imagine that quite well without downloading :p
17:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> keep in mind that it's taking more than 42 seconds because i share my connection with three other people
17:24:05  <yorick> just watch me fail, while I'm going to eat :)
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17:41:47  <Wolf01> hello
17:42:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's a Wolf, everybody hide!
17:44:10  <Wolf01> where?
17:44:45  <Wolf01> (not the wolf, where you hide so I can find you)
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17:52:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> i hide behind yorick
17:52:56  <yorick> eddi hides behind me
17:53:36  <yorick> i hind behind the Wolf
17:53:41  <yorick> hide*
17:53:46  <yorick> i hide
17:54:00  <Wolf01> mmmh a loop, I should first find me
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18:04:13  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13492 /branches/noai/ (4 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added the 'standard' functions max() and min() in global scope
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18:07:09  <Ammler> he, old pathfinder had a nice feature, trains which already wait gives way to driving trains, possible?
18:07:21  <Ammler> they wait some time, also if it is green.
18:07:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> that was not the pathfinder
18:07:57  *** UnderBuilder [~srverror@168.226.106.188] has joined #openttd
18:08:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> and tell that to patrick :p
18:08:22  <Ammler> Truelight?
18:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> no
18:08:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> @seen Patrick
18:08:34  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: Patrick was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 3 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes, and 36 seconds ago: <Patrick> it will have hit the 512 limit
18:08:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> @seen Patrick*
18:08:39  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause3: Patrick* could be Patrick`_ (5 weeks, 0 days, 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 34 seconds ago), Patrick` (8 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 44 minutes, and 41 seconds ago), or Patrick (1 year, 3 weeks, 2 days, 20 hours, 10 minutes, and 40 seconds ago)
18:08:46  <UnderBuilder> would be cool to see an option for cooperation between companies
18:08:51  <Ammler> then it was a bug?
18:09:12  <yorick> I remember csaboka saying it was going to join OpenTTD some time ago
18:09:16  <Ammler> UnderBuilder: check the forums for "infrastructure sharing"
18:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> it was a fix for a bug that showed otherwise
18:09:55  <ln> Patrick` the "openttd is not based on disassembled TTD.exe!" Patrick`
18:10:02  <UnderBuilder> example, company A decides to transport passengers between a company B station and other of company C
18:10:04  <Ammler> it's something like the "yellow state"
18:10:13  <UnderBuilder> aka sharing stationgs
18:10:29  <UnderBuilder> stations*
18:10:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> UnderBuilder: the subsidiaries patch is like 10000 revisions old
18:10:45  <Ammler> UnderBuilder: do you know the patch I mentioned?
18:12:28  <UnderBuilder> ehm, it allows to connect two stations from different companies?
18:12:36  <Ammler> and outdated since about 4000 revs :-)
18:12:50  <Ammler> UnderBuilder: yes.
18:13:10  <Ammler> you can use almost everything from every company
18:14:18  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13493 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: ReloadAI should reload the AI correctly, no matter what you named your dir
18:14:22  <UnderBuilder> for example, is possible to connect a rail station with an road station from different companies?
18:14:29  <yorick> @seen Gonozal_VIII
18:14:29  <DorpsGek> yorick: Gonozal_VIII was last seen in #openttd 11 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 5 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Gonozal_VIII> still nobody here
18:15:03  <yorick> how strange
18:15:06  <yorick> he left us
18:15:27  <Ammler> UnderBuilder: try IS...
18:17:11  <Ammler> hehe, is it possible to revert that behavier. (the waiting on green signals)?
18:17:34  <Ammler> forgot, how well that worked.
18:19:38  <Ammler> that should be a patch setting, I am really wondering, how that would work with YAPF
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18:26:26  <Pikka> hmm.. this is a little weird
18:28:16  <peter1138> what is?
18:28:38  <Pikka> callback 1D
18:29:37  <Pikka> if I have it in an action 2 chain, it appears to be affecting vehicles that don't go through that part of the chain...
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18:30:20  <peter1138> err
18:30:27  <Pikka> that's what I thought :D
18:30:51  <yorick> oh, that's what caused my bug
18:30:57  * yorick found cause of bug
18:31:18  <yorick> I couldn't know that it wouldn't happen without terraform gui on
18:31:20  <Wuisch> *tries to pretend he knows coding* Have you tried reversing the polarities?
18:31:46  <yorick> I have tried reversing the changes I made
18:32:12  <Pikka> peter: I want to stop certain locomotives from attaching wagons 1B or 34... so I have the following nfo:
18:32:12  <Pikka>  2022 * 18	 02 00 66 81 C6 00 FF 02 D7 80 1B 1B D7 80 34 34 FF 80
18:32:13  <Pikka>  2023 * 14	 02 00 A4 81 0C 00 FF 01 66 00 1D 1D A4 00
18:32:19  <yorick> why don't we have a walkthrough called "Adding a button to the scenario editor toolbar"?
18:32:35  <Wuisch> And I would like to say.. amsterdam is one ugly city filled with people
18:32:54  <Pikka> which looks fair enough.  but then it's returning D7 80 for locomotives of the same ID that don't go anywhere near those action 2s :|
18:32:57  <Wuisch> write one... Well assoon as you've got the okay from one of the devs that it's the correct way to do it
18:33:16  <Wolf01> [20:14:35] <UnderBuilder> for example, is possible to connect a rail station with an road station from different companies?
18:33:32  <Wolf01> If you mean to be able to place a station adjacent, yes: use ctrl
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18:34:29  <Wuisch> Belugas ... help pikka so I can have more betterer grf's
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18:35:49  <yorick> you scared him
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18:36:22  <Wuisch> seems belugas is having some minor technical difficulties
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18:37:01  <yorick> we'll fix this in a minute, thank you all for being here!
18:38:20  <Belugas_Gone> Pikka needs help?
18:38:25  <Wuisch> aye
18:38:31  <Belugas_Gone> if he did, he'd tell me
18:38:35  <Belugas_Gone> so you are begging
18:38:57  <Wuisch> [20:28] <Pikka> peter: I want to stop certain locomotives from attaching wagons 1B or 34... so I have the following nfo:
18:38:57  <Wuisch> [20:28] <Pikka>  2022 * 18	 02 00 66 81 C6 00 FF 02 D7 80 1B 1B D7 80 34 34 FF 80
18:38:57  <Wuisch> [20:29] <Pikka>  2023 * 14	 02 00 A4 81 0C 00 FF 01 66 00 1D 1D A4 00
18:39:04  <Wuisch> [20:29] <Pikka> which looks fair enough.  but then it's returning D7 80 for locomotives of the same ID that don't go anywhere near those action 2s :|
18:39:06  <Pikka> lol
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18:39:14  <Pikka> callback 1D is doing weird things :)
18:39:43  <Wuisch> I prefer to call it unsocial solliciting
18:39:51  * Belugas_Gone cannot helps Pikka on da matter
18:40:03  <Pikka> uhuh :O
18:40:27  <Pikka> so peter is my only hope. :)
18:40:29  <SmatZ> I am doing performance fixes in 32bpp blitter
18:40:33  <yorick> because Belugas_Gone are gone?
18:40:42  <yorick> SmatZ, the 32bpp-anim one?
18:40:43  <Wuisch> have you tried it a couple more times maybe the return will change after a while
18:40:48  <SmatZ> yorick: both
18:41:01  <SmatZ> but I need real sprites I can test it on
18:41:08  <SmatZ> preferably with a lot of transparency
18:41:12  <SmatZ> do you have any tip?
18:41:12  <yorick> I don't have any problems for the normal blitter
18:41:26  <Ammler> SmatZ: do you like my 32bpp pack :-)
18:41:39  <yorick> just the anim one isn't working - mouse stuttering
18:41:49  <SmatZ> Ammler: actually, I haven't seen it, or I don't know it is yours :)
18:41:55  <SmatZ> does it use transparency?
18:42:02  <TiberiusTeng> Ammler, you got a 32bit pack?
18:42:06  <SmatZ> yorick: yeah, that's a bit problematic :-/
18:42:07  <Ammler> it's not mine
18:42:09  <yorick> alpha channel transp?
18:42:14  <Ammler> I only made a pack :-)
18:42:35  <yorick> hmm...IRC acting strange, brb
18:42:36  <SmatZ> yorick: that's what I need :)
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18:42:43  <SmatZ> Ammler: can you give me a link?
18:42:45  <TiberiusTeng> I would like to test it ... since I don't even used one before, and wanted to see how it performs on my OpenGL blitter too
18:42:45  <yorick> there I am again
18:42:58  <yorick> or the transparency color
18:42:59  <yorick> ?
18:43:03  <SmatZ> TiberiusTeng: it is not really better...
18:43:14  <SmatZ> yorick: using alpha channel from PNG
18:43:21  <yorick> don't have those
18:43:24  <SmatZ> the same blitter, but more optimised
18:44:37  <yorick> just the anim is a problem for me, the normal blitter doesn't show any performance difference compared to the 8bpp one
18:44:42  <Ammler> SmatZ: I have no download except a torrent I made for some germans.
18:44:54  <UnderBuilder> Wolf01: I meant binding your station to the other, not making a separate one
18:45:00  <Ammler> but that has also the zoom-level patch build with it
18:45:02  <SmatZ> Ammler: is it that big?
18:45:09  <SmatZ> I need only sprites
18:45:14  <SmatZ> not code
18:45:14  <TiberiusTeng> SmatZ, you mean the 32bpp-optimized blitter ?
18:45:34  <yorick> just make a 32bpp-zoom-anim blitter, and I'm happy
18:45:40  <yorick> :)
18:45:49  <TiberiusTeng> it (and 32bit-anim) is good while zoomed in (and that's enough for 'casual' play, too)
18:45:56  <SmatZ> TiberiusTeng: yes, I am doing some changes in 32bpp-optimised and 32bpp-anim
18:46:25  <SmatZ> and I need to benchmark it on 32bpp sprites
18:46:25  <TiberiusTeng> yes, I'm making one using OpenGL and believe it will do anim as fast as 8bpp ;)
18:46:33  <yorick> TiberiusTeng, I'm talking about 2x zoomin
18:46:40  <SmatZ> hehe with shaders, everything is possible ;-)
18:46:46  <peter1138> Pikka: A4 goes to A4?
18:46:46  <TiberiusTeng> yeah ;)
18:47:02  <peter1138> hm
18:47:06  <TiberiusTeng> but I haven't finished anim part yet
18:47:41  <Pikka> yes peter
18:48:11  <TiberiusTeng> anyway I wish a 32bpp pack for benchmarking purposes, too :p
18:48:26  <yorick> any openttd gui expert willing to help me? please? I need some help on the toolbar
18:48:28  <TiberiusTeng> SmatZ, how did you take your benchmarks ?
18:48:34  <yorick> gmon?
18:48:41  <peter1138> probably need more nfo than that
18:49:02  <yorick> gprof*
18:49:04  <Ammler> well, I just collected some 32bpp graphics, but also those with the zoom levels
18:49:13  <Ammler> the bz2 is 14m
18:49:25  <yorick> if I try to add a button, the last button is warped to the left
18:49:26  <Pikka> it's almost like it caches everything after the 0C check, and then applies it to any vehicle with that ID from that point on.  I'm trying something at the moment to see if it works if I put a date check *after* the 0C check, instead of before.
18:49:35  <SmatZ> TiberiusTeng: with this http://dev.openttd.org/~smatz/blitter_encode_draw_bench.diff
18:49:53  <Ammler> SmatZ: should I upload it or do you like to download it self from the forums?
18:50:16  <Ammler> I have no idea, if those use transparency etc.
18:50:34  <TiberiusTeng> great, very straightforward
18:50:39  <SmatZ> hehe
18:50:57  <SmatZ> Ammler: does DCC work over IRC?
18:51:07  <Pikka> eh, nope, didn't help.  I was sure it would. :|
18:51:11  <Ammler> you don't have torrent running?
18:51:20  <SmatZ> Ammler: no?
18:51:21  <TiberiusTeng> and how's the extra zoom-in levels currently done ?
18:51:33  <yorick> some patch by GeekToo
18:51:34  <Ammler> then I load it to the server
18:51:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13494 /trunk/src/table/sprites.h: -Fix: a little documentation + copy-paste mistake for sprite.h.
18:53:21  <Wuisch> has anyone played with the zoom patch yet?
18:53:21  <Ammler> SmatZ: http://openttdcoop.org/ammler/32bpp.tar.bz2 but you need to wait about 15mins :-)
18:53:42  <orudge> has somebody altered how fast the arrow keys scroll in OpenTTD vaguely recently? it seems all fast and jumpy for me, and the game's not in fast forward mode :/
18:53:44  * SmatZ waits about 15 mins
18:53:56  <Ammler> my upload is quite slow
18:54:03  <TiberiusTeng> so it's not in trunk yet? :(
18:54:10  <SmatZ> orudge: yeah, it behaves strange when you move the mouse :-P
18:54:14  <yorick> Wuisch, yes I have
18:54:16  <SmatZ> TiberiusTeng: extra-zoom? no
18:54:19  <yorick> some pre-9 version
18:54:20  <TiberiusTeng> hope I don't need to do huge code fixups later :p
18:54:21  <orudge> SmatZ: mmh?
18:54:38  <yorick> I compiled it on 0.6.0-beta5 and then joined some servers with it
18:54:40  <SmatZ> orudge: is it caused by moving the mouse, or by something different?
18:54:41  <TiberiusTeng> 32bpp.tar.bz2: it's not ready yet? after 15 minutes?
18:54:45  <Wuisch> does it add coolness?
18:54:46  <orudge> not moving the mouse at all
18:54:50  <SmatZ> mmm
18:54:54  <yorick> Wuisch, if you have the graphics, sure
18:54:56  <orudge> hmm
18:54:58  <orudge> or maybe it was
18:55:04  <Wuisch> not a lot of graphics available yet for it are there?
18:55:05  <orudge> weird
18:55:09  <orudge> tis fine if the mouse is still
18:55:10  <Wuisch> like 1 buss and a couple of buildings?
18:55:12  <orudge> I'm sure it never used to do that...
18:55:23  <SmatZ> maybe it should be propaerly reported or nobody fixes that
18:55:57  <yorick> Wuisch, I have 20MB of new graphics
18:55:59  <Rubidium> hmm, did I break it?
18:56:00  <TiberiusTeng> for my current testing, while zoomed out 8x (minimum zooming level) 32bpp-optimized/32bpp-anim will drop below 1 fps on my desktop, while my OpenGL testing blitter can still do as fast as 8bpp-optimized ...
18:56:26  <TiberiusTeng> but I still need to fixup anim :)
18:56:34  <SmatZ> Rubidium: maybe came with that TICK event merging
18:56:34  <yorick> including a whole wagon renewal & rail renewal set, Wuisch
18:56:49  <Ammler> SmatZ: TiberiusTeng, please don't share the link, it's just a compressed data folder, no idea, if I am allowed to distribute it.
18:57:20  <TiberiusTeng> Ammler, acknowledged.
18:57:24  <Ammler> :-)
18:57:32  <Wuisch> could you zip a working openttd patched with those files and share it yorick? I'd like to check it out if possible
18:57:49  <Wuisch> And can't seem to compile openttd with vista
18:57:51  <yorick> read the last long ammler-message
18:57:57  <Wuisch> and my linux skills are innsufficient for cygwin
18:58:02  <TiberiusTeng> 'wait 15 minutes' < not quite understand ... does this mean I can start downloading right now?
18:58:21  <Ammler> its at 75%
18:58:39  <TiberiusTeng> I'll wait for your green light then
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18:59:42  <Ammler> hmm, I have no idea, if they are compatible with trunk 32bpp
18:59:44  <Wuisch> is there a big diffrence between a zoom 32bit sprite and a non zoom 32bpp?
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18:59:51  <yorick> however, I can send you a screenshot
18:59:57  <Wuisch> that will have to do then :P
19:00:10  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: SmatZ ok now
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19:00:28  <TiberiusTeng> well, I just can't help imaging how a bus still turn 45 degrees while 2x zoomed in ;)
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19:00:39  <Rubidium> orudge: http://rbijker.net/openttd/fix_owens_issue.diff <- does it solve it or not?
19:01:01  <SmatZ> Ammler: done, thanks
19:01:21  <Ammler> another hidden link: http://www.openttdcoop.org/newgrfs/32bpp/
19:01:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> 15 minutes upload, 30 seconds download :p
19:01:45  <TiberiusTeng> beware Google crawlers ;)
19:01:51  <Ammler> it wasn't 15
19:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, more like 7
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19:02:20  <Ammler> switched off KTorrent
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19:02:38  <yorick> Wuisch: http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=funleytransport3jan1960iw8.png
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19:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> that typically helps, yes :p
19:04:20  <orudge> Rubidium: that seems to fix it, yes
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19:04:47  <Wuisch> Quite nice but the 8bpp things look blotchy zoomed?
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19:05:42  <yorick> what did you think?
19:05:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> there is this ancient patch which included smoothing filters for 2x zoom
19:06:16  <yorick> oh, the depot isn't replaced
19:06:38  <TiberiusTeng> Ammler, done, thanks.
19:06:43  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13495 /trunk/src/window.cpp: -Fix: scrolling the main map with the keys speed was influenced by movement of the mouse.
19:07:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> the bus is a little bit too long
19:08:00  <Wuisch> but now there's a group of people making 8bpp sprites for open ttd and a group making 32bpp sprites?
19:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> so?
19:08:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> "konkurrenz belebt das GeschÀft"
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19:08:47  <Ammler> do you need asserts from 0.4.5 :P
19:09:03  <Wuisch> I'd Just think that  if all of them combined there powers we could have a complete set of one or the other sooner :p
19:09:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> there's also a group of people developing TTD in assembler and a group of people developing TTD in C++, big news!
19:09:18  <TiberiusTeng> ha
19:09:44  <Wuisch> once you can play openttd on a normal calculator i'll b e impressed :P
19:11:14  <Rubidium> Ammler: what do you think?
19:11:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wuisch: improvements of one group drive the other group forward
19:11:39  <Ammler> Rubidium: :-)
19:11:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> there was no 8bpp development for a long time because it was said "32bpp will come, and there'll be a complete replacement"
19:12:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> then 32bpp came and nothing was done
19:12:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> so people started with 8bpp, and suddenly there was also improvement in 32bpp set
19:13:58  <Wuisch> but why would the one be a competitor to the other... and who competetivly creates sprites... people are strange
19:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> everything is a competition, the world does simply not work without it
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19:14:49  <yorick> except if you're living with communism
19:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause3> that's one of the major reasons for socialism to fail
19:15:02  <yorick> true
19:15:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> there was no encuragement of competition
19:15:08  <TiberiusTeng> I just can't stop playing MGS4 and come back writing code ... ouch.
19:15:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> even cuba just introduced competition in the work force (by lifting the "equal pay" law)
19:16:16  <Pikka> peter1138: bugger.  it *does* work if I put the date check inside the 1D, I was checking the age of the coach before instead of the age of the loco.
19:16:19  <Wuisch> yes I can understand how you'd like more effort to equal more money... but sprites are just sprites... Are there really that many people going "Look at them they created a road sprite! Quickly we must make a road sprite in our own size"!
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19:17:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, because "see, mine looks more shiny than yours"
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19:17:23  <Wuisch> don't the 8bpps always look less shiney?
19:17:30  <yorick> :D
19:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> depends on what kind of valuation you base it on ;)
19:18:02  <yorick> could someone help me at adding a button to the scenario editor toolbar?
19:18:08  <Rubidium> the original gfx looks at least more shiny than the opengfx stuff
19:18:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> no.
19:18:25  <Wuisch> this is why the human race is doomed to fail... we only do stuff so we can rub it in some other people's face apperantly
19:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, some of it looks quite dull
19:19:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wuisch: i see no reason why that immediately means "fail"
19:19:10  <Rubidium> Wuisch: would we've gotten carbon fibre and such if the American and Russians didn't go to the moon?
19:19:11  <yorick> Wuisch, then did you type it so you could rub that in my face?
19:19:29  <Rubidium> wouldn't we all be coding in COBOL?
19:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> aren't we?
19:19:57  <yorick> no, we took the OBOL away
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19:20:07  <yorick> now we're coding in a lesser language
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19:20:22  <Wuisch> well its just a matter of time before one person goes look at the size of boom I can create and then another goes but my boom is bigger
19:20:39  <yorick> they already did that on Japan
19:20:48  <Ammler> opengfx is currently mostly to dark, imo.
19:20:51  <Wuisch> yes but that was quite a small boom
19:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, after that they realised it'd be better to compare theoretical booms :p
19:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> "we could blow up earth 295 times"
19:22:01  <Wuisch> and there's many many inventions that were done without the direct pressure of competition... I really don't think the lightbulb was invented by sheer competition...
19:22:33  <Wuisch> sooner or later they're gonna want to see if the theory resembles the reality though
19:22:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> a few other things were invented purely out of the need to survive
19:23:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> but you can argue that's also a competition
19:23:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> or rather the most basic competition
19:23:15  <Demoder> Competition; Life vs death?
19:23:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> "i can survive better than you"
19:23:23  <Ammler> http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=91939 <-- someone of you knows a patch for that?
19:23:55  <Rubidium> you need to steal it
19:23:57  <Wuisch> I don't believe we'd still be living in the stone age if we didn't have the primal urge to bash each others skulls in thats all I'm saying
19:23:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> Ammler: i assume that's some newgrf thing
19:24:00  <Ammler> :D
19:24:09  <Rubidium> go to Russia and ask for Sergej S.
19:24:09  <Ammler> his site is down.
19:24:23  <Rubidium> cool, the RIAA took them down?
19:24:48  <Ammler> no idea, maybe the ISP?
19:24:56  <TiberiusTeng> Ammler, I can't get these sprites to work ... how should I do after uncompressed them? merely puts they inside 'data' doesn't seem to work :Q
19:25:26  <Rubidium> put the uncompressed tar in data/
19:25:27  *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@p549F41DE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:25:48  <TiberiusTeng> got it.
19:26:07  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: as I said, I used those with the zoom patch
19:26:15  <Ammler> no idea, if they are compatible with trunk
19:26:58  <Rubidium> oh, likely not ;)
19:27:21  *** Demoder [~demoder@217-13-28-178.dd.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:27:41  <Ammler> well, not all grfs are for zoom patch
19:28:42  <TiberiusTeng> aha, some of them worked. just checked the source, seems it won't display a PNG sprite without mask for now.
19:30:54  <TiberiusTeng> and those with _z0 ~ _z2 won't show up. well, not compatible :p
19:31:10  <Ammler> a nice wiki page btw: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/32bpp_Extra_Zoom_Levels#List_of_downloadable_32bpp_graphics_.28extra_zoom.29
19:31:38  <Ammler> I guess, the nonzoom should have something similar
19:32:53  <Ammler> http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/List_of_downloadable_32bpp_tars
19:32:55  <TiberiusTeng> but seems they have separate sprites for each zoom level, so it's unlikely for my OpenGL blitter to be massively rewritten ...
19:33:12  <TiberiusTeng> that branch can directly read .tar files ?
19:33:39  <yorick> trunk can
19:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Weisst du noch wie's frÃŒher war?
19:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> # FrÃŒher war alles schlecht!
19:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Der Himmel grau, die Menschen mies.
19:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Die Welt war furchtbar ungerecht.
19:33:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Doch dannn; dann kam die Wende! (Hip Hip Hurra...)
19:34:23  <Ammler> but it seems I have all GRFs in the pack
19:34:29  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3 is speaking in comments again
19:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> only if you speak python ;)
19:34:42  *** Bjarni [~Bjarni@0x50a41648.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has joined #openttd
19:34:43  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
19:34:43  <yorick> hssssss
19:34:45  <yorick> Bjarni!
19:34:45  <Ammler> tars, I meant
19:34:47  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni!
19:34:54  <Prof_Frink> yorick: That's ASP.
19:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steuerwagen#Einschr.C3.A4nkungen
19:35:16  <Wuisch> Where can I get v10 of geektoo's zoom patch... I can only seem to find v9
19:35:41  <Wuisch> oops never mind found it >_<
19:36:21  <TiberiusTeng> I don't think trunk can read tar for now :Q
19:36:30  <yorick> it can
19:37:25  <Belugas> it cannot?
19:37:27  <Belugas> wow...
19:37:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> it should
19:37:36  *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:37:39  <Belugas> it must
19:37:46  <Belugas> it is
19:37:47  <glx> it does
19:38:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Wir mÃŒssen nur wollen
19:38:25  <glx> I have TTD files in a tar only
19:39:18  *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@p549F2110.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
19:39:49  <TiberiusTeng> ahh. got it, sorry ...
19:41:15  <Belugas> what's bad about instrumental songs, you can't paste the lyrics...
19:41:35  <Belugas> and of course, you cannot sing...
19:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> indeed, i noticed that, too ;)
19:41:51  <Prof_Frink> # And she's buying a stairway to heaven...
19:42:09  *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.231.53] has joined #openttd
19:42:12  <Wuisch> but really is that a bad thing belugas?
19:42:17  *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:42:19  <Belugas> yup..
19:42:24  <Belugas> i personally find
19:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Muss ich immer alles mÃŒssen, was ich kann?
19:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Eine Hand in den Sternen, die andere im Hintern vom Vordermann
19:42:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Dies ist das Land der begrenzten Unmöglichkeiten,
19:43:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> # Wir können Pferde ohne Beine rÌckwÀrts reiten
19:43:40  <Belugas> Mogwai - We're no here   <--  killer song
19:43:47  <Belugas> love it love it love it!!!
19:44:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i don't think i have that
19:44:10  <Prof_Frink> VORDERMAN
19:44:27  *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F3770.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:44:27  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
19:44:37  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: What are you doing with your hand on Vorderman's sternum?
19:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> you missed the real joke, i'm afraid ;)
19:45:57  <Wuisch> Turisas cover of boney M's song Rasputin, it is made of win
19:46:19  <Prof_Frink> Stairway. Win is made of it.
19:47:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13496 /branches/noai/ (3 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: if a library depends on an other library, the import became globally known, which defeats the idea of imports. They are now restricted to their scope, and 'import' returns the class of import (if any)
19:47:35  *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:48:14  * Prof_Frink erupts
19:48:33  <Belugas> better erupting then eructing...
19:48:44  *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd
19:48:45  *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@p549F3630.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd
19:48:58  *** Pikka [~PikkaBird@CPE-58-165-98-32.qld.bigpond.net.au] has quit []
19:49:54  <Prof_Frink> And now, Freebird.
19:49:55  *** ben_goodger [~ben@host217-44-220-18.range217-44.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
19:51:01  <peter1138> well
19:51:09  <peter1138> i did see them once
19:52:36  <peter1138> hmm, don't have mr beast ripped here :o
19:53:07  *** Zahl [~Zahl@p549F2110.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:53:07  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
19:53:59  <yorick> seems like the scenario editor zoom button enabling/disabling at toolbar is done a bit hackish?
19:54:20  <yorick> like: if I try to add button 18, it disables that one if fully zoomed in
19:56:56  <peter1138> everything gui is hackish
19:57:34  <yorick> even worse, at clean trunk, the real zoom buttons don't get disabled
19:57:50  <yorick> peter1138! fixhackishzoomstuff!
19:58:02  <Prof_Frink> No
19:58:03  <peter1138> yorick! pissoff!
19:58:16  <Prof_Frink> peter1138! ncopenttd!
19:58:43  <peter1138> nc?
19:58:52  <Prof_Frink> curses!
19:58:57  <Prof_Frink> foiled again!
19:59:16  <Prof_Frink> # Hello... Is there anybody in there?
19:59:41  <yorick> nc?
19:59:48  <Prof_Frink> curses!
20:00:04  <peter1138> foiled again?
20:00:11  <Prof_Frink> No
20:00:16  <Prof_Frink> Clingfilmed.
20:03:02  *** yorick [~yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit:  And Poef!]
20:26:49  <Prof_Frink> # On a dark desert highway, cool wind in my hair
20:27:23  <Touqen> Don't stop. We're in bat country!
20:28:55  *** xahodo [~chatzilla@energy.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd
20:29:09  <xahodo> Hello
20:30:00  *** Zeal [~Ping@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:30:18  *** Zealotus [~Ping@217-211-211-179-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd
20:30:46  <Wuisch> where's the open ttd crf by default?
20:31:01  <Wuisch> and by crf I mean cfg
20:31:45  <Wuisch> never mind found it
20:35:24  <Belugas> My Documents could be a place to start
20:35:29  <Belugas> if on windows
20:35:36  <Belugas> or at the place where it started
20:35:37  <Belugas> depends
20:36:22  <xahodo> Can the yapf patch settings be added to the list of patch settings which can be changed during gameplay? I have a game in which I'm trying to change rail_firstred_twoway_penalty, but the console isn't aware of its existence.
20:37:25  <xahodo> However, it is aware of road_stop_penalty.
20:39:13  <Belugas> dunno if it's possible
20:41:20  <Belugas> night all
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20:43:24  <xahodo> Can't all the yapf settings be made visible (and changeable) in the console?
20:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> they are
20:44:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> list_patches
20:45:15  <Noldo> firstred_twoway is such a classic
20:45:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> patch yapf.what_ever_it_is_called <number
20:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, that's the most important
20:45:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i also changed the depot reverse penalty
20:46:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> and i played around with the yapp values, too
20:46:48  <xahodo> Well, the console tells me it doesn't know the patch setting.
20:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> you have to prefix it with "yapf."
20:47:24  <xahodo>  /not/ pf.yapf. ?
20:47:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> "list_patches" will tell you the exact name
20:47:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, might have changed with the settings rework
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20:48:38  <xahodo> sorry, the only yapf option showing here (on a windows box, currently) is pf.yapf.road_stop_penalty
20:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> did you scroll the output?
20:49:15  <xahodo> yes, I did.
20:49:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> then you should probably report that ;)
20:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i assume list_patches needs some kind of "|more" or "|less" option ;)
20:51:46  <xahodo> lets see...
20:52:27  <xahodo> well, it's only usage is "list_patches", no parameters seem to be accepted.
20:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, i said it needs it, not that it has it ;)
20:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> anyway, name should be the same as in the config file (+prefix)
20:53:43  *** Slowpoke [~Lobster@dslb-088-073-230-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
20:57:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> helpful would also be a "list_patches [<subcategory>]" command
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21:05:37  *** dR3x4cK [~Miranda@p5499DC5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07:38  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13497 /branches/noai/bin/ai/library/pathfinder/ (. road/ road/library.nut road/main.nut): [NoAI] -Add [Library]: pathfinder.road, a basic road pathfinder (no bridges/tunnels (yet)) (patch by Yexo, very nice job!)
21:08:40  *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F541FB.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:12:13  *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd
21:18:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13498 /branches/noai/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): [NoAI] -Add: added 'pathfinder.road' to the regression
21:24:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... funny "They tested the engines [of the LBE], which were designed for the flat northern german routes, on the route from Frankfurt-Höchst to Königstein im Taunus, which has some pretty steep sections. of the 14 wagons that started in Frankfurt, only 2 arrived in Königsstein, the rest had to be left one-by-one on the tracks."
21:25:26  <SmatZ> hehe
21:26:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> [the LÃŒbeck-BÃŒchener Eisenbahn (LBE) was the one who first used push-pull-service in the 1930's]
21:26:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> [with steam engines]
21:37:00  *** Boyinblue0 [~admin@5ac37e82.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd
21:37:08  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r13499 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp landscape.cpp slope_func.h): -Codechange: Allow drawing (ugly) leveled foundations on steep slopes, just in case someone needs them for fallback.
21:37:29  *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:39:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... wtf?
21:39:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't understand that commit at all...
21:39:57  <frosch123> it's just a codechange
21:41:57  <ln> there's no thing as "just a codechange".
21:42:02  <ln> +such
21:50:48  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause3: now I read that wiki article about steering cars... nice to know
21:51:08  <Bjarni> now I know that I should be more picky when I select rail travels in Germany :s
21:51:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, you don't have that many choices ;)
21:52:05  <Bjarni> :(
21:52:21  <Bjarni> that sucks
21:52:25  *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-4d00a925.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:53:10  <Bjarni> it would appear that they will drive like that until they make a new accident like the ICE3 derailment
21:53:56  <Bjarni> and some report will declare that the accident is likely not to have happened if the speed were lower or it wasn't a steering car
21:54:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> ICE3 has no designated engine compartment, the engines are under the floor through the entire train
21:54:10  <Bjarni> I know
21:54:15  <Bjarni> but I mean the derailment
21:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> the article above talked about the ICE2
21:54:27  <Bjarni> the passengers don't care where the engine is
21:54:35  <Bjarni> they care about the results
21:54:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13500 /branches/noai/bin/ai/ (library/pathfinder/road/main.nut regression/regression.txt): [NoAI] -Fix r13497: minor glitch in slope-check (Yexo)
21:55:05  * peter1138 autoreplaces Bjarni's engine
21:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> i never heard of a derailment due to steering wagons
21:55:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> i heard of derailments due to sheep
21:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> or derailments due to broken wheels
21:55:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> or derailments due to high speed through switches [with engine in front, btw.]
21:56:05  <ln> 00:51 <@Bjarni> now I know that I should be more picky when I select rail travels in Germany :s  <-- more picky than during your previous rail travels in Germany?
21:56:21  *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
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21:56:47  <Bjarni> yeah
21:58:29  <ben_goodger> you're still blathering about the DMUs?
21:59:02  <Bjarni> it would appear so
21:59:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> the term "DMU" does not exist in german
21:59:13  <Sacro> Bjarni blathers a lot
21:59:22  * Bjarni slaps Sacro
21:59:27  <Bjarni> I do that a lot as well
21:59:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> there exists the term "Dieseltriebwagen", but that leaves out the "multiple" part
21:59:59  * Sacro giggles
22:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> http://www.die-archiv.de/Das_DIE-Archiv/Infoblatt_Wendezug.pdf <- early development of steering wagons/push-pull service in east germany
22:05:39  <Bjarni> interesting
22:05:56  <Bjarni> the picture of the cab looks somewhat familiar
22:06:35  *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-85-148.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd
22:06:41  <Bjarni> I guess it would be a matter of minutes before I could figure out how to drive that one
22:07:27  * DaleStan wishes peter1138 had changed action 3 in a way that was easier to get NFORenum to parse.
22:07:44  <Bjarni> looks like it controls electric traction
22:07:50  * DaleStan cannot, however, come up with a better solution that is still backward compatible.
22:08:44  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.173.219] has joined #openttd
22:08:54  <Eddi|zuHause3> actually, it says that was pre-electric, so only indirect steering (the heater on the engine had to follow the signals given by the driver)
22:09:25  <Bjarni> actually maybe not
22:09:31  <Bjarni> something looks a bit different
22:10:01  <Bjarni> ahh one of those
22:10:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> the driver can only control the brake
22:10:48  <Bjarni> I hope he has stuff like horn as well
22:11:50  <Bjarni> maybe I should read the text before saying anything else
22:12:39  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause3>  [..] the heater on the engine <-- he is called a fireman in English
22:12:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> it says they put in [complicated pipe stuff and valves] for the brake, a 3-wire-cable for the orders, headlights and a pipe driven by pressured air
22:12:56  <Bjarni> I mean I guess you mean Lokheizer
22:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, i mean that one
22:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> they also call him "second driver" in this paper
22:13:26  <Bjarni> :)
22:13:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> because he has to get special training
22:13:48  *** [com]buster [~combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
22:14:04  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause3> because he has to get special training <--- hahaha
22:14:16  <Bjarni> it's not like firemen didn't know how to drive
22:14:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, they did have to learn the order signals
22:14:59  <Bjarni> today firemen has to know ALL signals
22:15:02  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.185.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:15:02  <Bjarni> at least here
22:15:21  <Wolf01> 'night
22:15:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> not the railside signals, the orders given from the driver
22:15:26  *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host252-233-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:15:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> via the cable
22:15:50  <Bjarni> like it would be tricky :)
22:17:52  <Bjarni> around that time Denmark built some diesel electric units that could control the engines based on signals in some wires (more than 3 wires).
22:18:07  <Bjarni> so the engines could be remote controlled from a cab in the other end of the train
22:18:23  <Bjarni> basically they supported "normal" steering car trains like we know them
22:18:40  *** [com]buster [~combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:19:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, yes, it says they say they used the E 04 23 for "direct" steering, once the electrification was rebuilt
22:19:11  <Bjarni> usually they consisted of one locomotive and one steering car (the locomotive had room for like 50 passengers + a room for small cargo like bikes
22:19:35  *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:19:40  *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd
22:19:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> E 04 23 was previously prepared for direct steering in 1939
22:19:48  <Bjarni> originally the design was to allow one driver to control two engines though
22:19:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> and then tested in the Munich area
22:20:04  <Bjarni> so they could also drive with say 6 cars and a locomotive in each end
22:20:32  <Bjarni> I tried driving one of those... it was... interesting
22:20:52  *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd
22:21:26  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause3> E 04 23  <--- honestly I can't remember all the numbers in German trains :|
22:21:37  <Bjarni> maybe because I never looked into them
22:22:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> you don't have to, it says so right in the text ;)
22:23:04  <Bjarni> I noticed they mention some but I have problems connecting those numbers with actual trains
22:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> that's what wikipedia or bahnbilder.de is for ;)
22:24:32  <Bjarni> I like the Danish version of naming locomotives. They are each assigned one or two letters. If it's one then it's steam, if it's two then if the first is M then it's diesel and if it's E then it's electric
22:24:38  <Bjarni> so just by looking at the name you already know the traction type
22:25:22  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause3> ... bahnbilder.de <-- bookmarked :D
22:26:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> german wikipedia has extensive articles on most engine classes, usually with pictures
22:27:18  *** bowman^2 is now known as bowman
22:27:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> and germany obviously had more engine classes than denmark, so one letter did not suffice, so they used two numbers
22:27:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> and one (or more) prefix letters denoting the type
22:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> none - steam
22:27:50  <Bjarni> actually we have problems with reusing letters >_<
22:27:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> E - electric
22:28:00  <Bjarni> type P is actually two different engines
22:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> ET - electric "triebwagen"
22:28:20  <Bjarni> but one is so much older than the other one that I don't think they ever met
22:28:48  *** KritiK_ [~Maxim@93-80-86-183.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd
22:28:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> ETA - electric "triebwagen" with "akkumulator" [battery]
22:29:17  <Bjarni> I read about those
22:29:20  <Bjarni> did they really work?
22:29:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> V and VT for the diesel ones
22:29:32  <Bjarni> I mean charge and discharge time
22:29:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, they were used a long time
22:29:45  <Prof_Frink> See, it's far simpler here.
22:29:51  <Prof_Frink> 43 - Fast train.
22:29:54  <ben_goodger> wouldn't an akkumulator mean a capacitor? as in a charge accumulator
22:29:54  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13501 /trunk/src/ (signs_func.h signs_gui.cpp viewport.cpp): -Feature(tte): ctrl+click on sign you own to remove it (Osai, planetmaker)
22:30:06  <Bjarni> ben_goodger: basically it means batteries
22:30:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> they later replaced the letters with single numbers, for better computer use
22:30:18  <ben_goodger> ah
22:30:19  <Bjarni> lead-acid (like in cars) if I recall correctly
22:30:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> "akkumulator" [or short "akku"] in german means "rechargable battery"
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22:32:29  <ben_goodger> lovely
22:32:32  <ben_goodger> no lithium ions then :)
22:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> again a "huge" feature and nobody notices :p
22:33:08  <Vikthor> Old czechoslovak system was pretty interesting, it coded in number of coupled axles, max speed and weight per axle
22:33:47  <Bjarni> could you give some examples?
22:33:47  <Vikthor> so you could get some idea of capability of the locomotive
22:34:01  <Vikthor> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kry%C5%A1p%C3%ADn%27s_system
22:34:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, steam engines often had additional "tags" for stuff like boiler pressure
22:34:54  <Bjarni> I have seen the number of coupled axles used elsewhere. Japanese steam locomotives all have a single letter in front of the name and it means how many coupled wheels they have. C and D are the most common (I think)
22:34:58  <Bjarni> I like systems like that
22:35:37  <ben_goodger> heh
22:36:35  <Vikthor> unfortunately later it hit limits, since there was to much locomotives with same designation
22:37:03  <ben_goodger> in britain we call them "bobo", "coco" or "boco" in that fashion
22:37:03  <ben_goodger> it's very amusing for small children
22:37:19  <Vikthor> yeah, that's used here to
22:38:19  <ben_goodger> of course, we have a complex and largely arbitrary class system also --- the manufacturers seemed to pick the next available ten-number block in most cases
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22:39:04  <Bjarni> Vikthor: looks interesting
22:39:31  <Vikthor> anyway the old system is now gone, and we have now boring designation like 680 for Pendolino, or 380 for yet-to-be-completed Å koda locomotive
22:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> typical modern engines have an axle scheme of Bo'Bo'
22:39:53  <Bjarni> yeah
22:40:04  <Bjarni> or Co'Co'
22:40:07  <ben_goodger> you've pendolinos in japan?
22:40:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> heavier ones Co'Co'
22:40:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> Vikthor is from czechia
22:40:34  <Bjarni> Cennential had Do'Do' o_O
22:40:45  <ben_goodger> ah
22:40:52  <Bjarni> with an axle pressure of 31 tons
22:40:59  <Vikthor> How you came to idea taht I am from Japan, when I speak about Czechoslovak numbering system :D
22:40:59  <ben_goodger> you've pendolinos in czechia?
22:41:05  <Vikthor> duh
22:41:21  <ben_goodger> I thought you were speaking about the japanese one, and I thought pendolinos were assembled by a british compan
22:41:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> welcome to the globalisation!
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22:41:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> "pendolino" sounds awfully italian to me
22:41:55  <ben_goodger> oh, no, french
22:42:02  <ben_goodger> it's used throughout europe, apparently
22:42:10  <Vikthor> These Pendolinos were assembled by Alsthom(French company) in Italian factory
22:42:12  <ben_goodger> I thought their wonderful reliability was confined to great britain
22:42:25  <Vikthor> or is it Alstom?
22:42:38  <Bjarni> Vikthor: 今晩は
22:42:40  <ln> Pendolino was a product of Fiat Ferroviaria.
22:43:01  <Vikthor> ln: Sure, but they are now owned by Alstom
22:43:06  <ln> I know.
22:43:38  <ben_goodger> alstom
22:43:38  <ben_goodger> ln: they were bought by alstom
22:43:38  <ben_goodger> I thought alstom were british. something else I learned today
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22:45:22  <Vikthor> And surprisingly even when Pendolinos were target of any jokes for their reliability, now as some issues has been solved they regarded as ones of the more reliable units in CD pool
22:45:26  <ln> on-topic tube url: http://youtube.com/watch?v=tEreh807D9g
22:45:27  <Vikthor> *many
22:45:51  <ben_goodger> ah
22:46:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> the funny thing about german engine class numbering is, the engines were older than the numbering system, so they had time to actually group them in more or less sensible ranges (fast passenger, slow passenger, light freight, heavy freight)
22:47:01  <ben_goodger> ah
22:47:06  <ben_goodger> clever
22:47:16  <ben_goodger> but of course, we couldn't have that, as it would introduce change
22:47:27  <Bjarni> we lack trains here
22:47:42  <Bjarni> the railroad ordered some DMUs for delivery in 2004 or something
22:47:47  <Bjarni> still not working
22:48:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, the change was necessary in the 1920's to unify all the different LÀnderbahnen, who were individual companies in each part of germany
22:48:23  <Bjarni> do any of you have spare locomotives we could borrow/buy? :)
22:48:42  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: we've a huge number of class 43, 47 and 57 locos you can have
22:48:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> we sent you the ICE-TD :p
22:48:59  <ben_goodger> unfortunately the class 43 only works with one type of rolling stock.
22:49:20  <Bjarni> the ICE-TD were on TV when they talked about trains and lack of good ones
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22:49:39  <Prof_Frink> ben_goodger: beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeem bawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwm
22:49:46  <Bjarni> somehow they claimed that passengers sit better in ICE-TD than in short range commuter trains
22:49:50  <Rubidium> Bjarni: just use the N700 ;)
22:49:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> funny, Belugas' email from 3 hours ago arrived ;)
22:50:01  <Bjarni> :)
22:50:06  <ben_goodger> Prof_Frink: Deltik
22:50:15  <ben_goodger> :P
22:50:33  <Bjarni> ben_goodger: it's Deltic :P
22:50:46  <ben_goodger> meh
22:50:57  <Bjarni> but I don't think we want a locomotive from 1959
22:51:05  <ben_goodger> deltik looks better. more german
22:51:08  <ben_goodger> which of those is from 59?
22:51:14  <ben_goodger> oh, deltic
22:51:16  <ben_goodger> yeah...
22:51:18  <Bjarni> the design
22:51:19  <ben_goodger> it's kind of claggy
22:51:28  <ben_goodger> the 57 is good, though. it does 100mph
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22:51:38  <ben_goodger> sorry, 140km/h
22:51:55  <Bjarni> 140 km/h is the speed limit for any locomotive here
22:51:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> interesting conversion factor you have ;)
22:52:07  <Rubidium> Bjarni: then the N700 is pointless ;)
22:52:19  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause3: km/h is not my native language :P
22:52:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> we have trains that have a scheduled speed of 350km/h
22:52:30  <Bjarni> basically the owner of the tracks don't want great forces from a single unit
22:52:48  <Rubidium> ben_goodger: furlong per fortnight then?
22:52:56  <ben_goodger> Rubidium: no, miles per hour
22:53:12  <ben_goodger> we're still using the imperial mile, for some reason...
22:53:20  <Bjarni> weird
22:53:27  <ben_goodger> people really hate the european union, the euro, and metrification here
22:53:34  <Bjarni> because you aren't on the list of countries that rejected the metric system
22:53:47  <ben_goodger> no, we're metric in most other ways
22:53:47  <Bjarni> hmm
22:54:10  <Bjarni> so it's an EU idea that GB should use the metric system?
22:54:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> do you use A4 paper?
22:54:55  <Bjarni> I do
22:54:58  <Bjarni> once in a while
22:55:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> i was talking to the "outsider" ;)
22:55:15  <ben_goodger> yeah
22:55:16  <Bjarni> I now it's retro but sometimes I use old stuff
22:55:42  <Vikthor> Once in a while EU could something usefull, after that they could teach them to drive on the proper side of road :D
22:55:46  <Bjarni> only 3 countries officially denies using the metric system
22:56:07  <Bjarni> 2 dictatorships (controlled by military) and USA
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22:57:02  <ben_goodger> celsius for temperature, farenheit for temperature also, kilograms for sugar, pounds for butter, litres for fuel, pints for milk, gallons for buckets, metres for distances between road signs, yards for the numbers on the signs, miles for roads, acres for land area, grams per square metre for paper weight, feet and inches for height, inches for collars/legs, British foot numbers for feet, millimetres for paper sizes, inch
22:57:14  <ben_goodger> es for monitor sizes
22:57:27  <Rubidium> not to mention gallon != gallon
22:57:39  <ben_goodger> miles per hour for speed limits
22:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> germany has defined 1 pound := 500g
22:57:58  <ben_goodger> half-pints for beer
22:58:05  <ben_goodger> et cetera. it goes on and on
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22:59:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> half-pints? that's like... nothing...
22:59:52  <ben_goodger> although the "pint of milk" is now 568ml ℮ _and_ 1 pint ℮
22:59:52  <ben_goodger> it's maddening
22:59:53  <ben_goodger> stones and pounds for body weight
22:59:55  <ben_goodger> yes, but it's quite a nice size for a small drink
23:00:29  <ben_goodger> it's a little smaller than a 33 cl drinks can
23:00:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> ok, a "small beer" is 0,3l here
23:01:00  <Tefad> 33cl or 35cl?
23:01:04  <ben_goodger> sounds about right
23:01:06  <ben_goodger> 33cl
23:01:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> or 0,2l in some "poor" western german areas :p
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23:01:18  <ben_goodger> 330 ml here, as we cannot understand the idea of cl
23:01:19  <Tefad> 12oz is standard in us, translates to 355ml
23:01:28  <ben_goodger> yeah, we use a slightly different size
23:01:28  <Bjarni> I like how one pound of lead is heavier than one pound of gold
23:01:37  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: it is not...
23:01:39  <Tefad> Bjarni: hahaha troy weight is screwy
23:01:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> drinking cans are 0,33l
23:01:45  <ben_goodger> oh, troy weight
23:01:46  <Tefad> ben_goodger: it is.
23:01:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> three of which make a liter [roughly]
23:02:06  <Bjarni> because gold is valuable metal it use it's own old fashioned scale that's 75% of the normal scale
23:02:18  <Tefad> but a pound of feathers weighs the same as a pound of nails
23:02:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have never seen gold measured in pounds
23:02:40  <Tefad> however the feathers have higher aerodynamic drag and resist gravity in an atmosphere
23:02:52  <Bjarni> I would prefer to fall on a pound of feathers rather than a pound of nails
23:02:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> occasionally i heard of "fine ounces of gold"
23:03:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> but i never actually understood what that means ;)
23:03:56  <ben_goodger> an ounce is 1/16 pounds, for some reason
23:04:00  <ben_goodger> stupid base 16 system
23:04:06  <Bjarni> yeah
23:04:13  <Bjarni> base 16 systems are useless :P
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23:05:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't really understand this either, most other factors are based on the babylonian base 60 system
23:05:30  <ben_goodger> 696E6465656420736F2E2E2E
23:05:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> (today noticeable in time and angles)
23:06:01  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause3: yes, that's another thing that really must die
23:06:02  <ben_goodger> radian ftw
23:06:02  <Bjarni> we most often use a 10 based system because we have 10 fingers
23:06:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> that looks like ascii
23:06:27  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause3: indeed it is...
23:06:27  <ben_goodger> in base 16
23:06:28  <Bjarni> so why don't they use an 8 based system in Duckburg?
23:06:40  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause3: Indeed. There's 60cm in 2 foot. ;)
23:06:47  *** mucht_home [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> Prof_Frink: that's not an exact number :p
23:07:07  <Bjarni> I mean Disney draw all the figures with 4 fingers on each hand
23:07:31  <Bjarni> I think there are 5280 feet on a mile
23:07:37  <Bjarni> or something like that
23:07:41  <ben_goodger> if we'd not evolved with five fingers we'd be better off
23:07:41  <ben_goodger> using base 8 would have made the discovery of binary logic much, much faster
23:07:44  <Prof_Frink> @calc 1760*3
23:07:45  <DorpsGek> Prof_Frink: 5280
23:07:51  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: yes.
23:07:57  <Bjarni> I mean a number that's totally off compared to the 10 based system
23:08:04  <ben_goodger> correct
23:08:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, most factors are divisors of 60, most commonly 12
23:08:20  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: why 1760?
23:08:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> like 12 inches in a foot
23:08:27  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: yards in a mile
23:08:35  <Bjarni> ahh
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23:09:03  <ben_goodger> it's 1/12:1:3:220:8
23:09:18  <ben_goodger> as opposed to 1/10:10:100:1000 which is much nicer.
23:09:31  <ben_goodger> of course, the kilogram is interesting
23:09:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> whoever came up with the number "220"
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23:09:51  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause3: don't know, it's the ratio of furlongs to yards
23:09:56  <Prof_Frink> ben_goodger: It's 1/1000 and lots of them.
23:10:00  <ben_goodger> there's probably another one embedded
23:10:16  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause3> whoever came up with the number "220" <-- why do we use 220V in our power supply?
23:10:26  <Bjarni> (which is now changed to 230V)
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23:10:47  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Because you can't count up to 240.
23:10:52  <Prof_Frink> (which is now changed to 230V)
23:10:54  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: it was changed to 230 from 240
23:10:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> Bjarni: that is most likely a "we just power up this machine and then use whatever it outputs as standard"
23:11:03  <ben_goodger> mmm
23:11:18  <Prof_Frink> Whereas in Merkia it's about 120V
23:11:33  <Bjarni> maybe they made a standard out of 230V because it was close enough to both 220V and 240V
23:11:33  <Prof_Frink> Which is one reason the tea sucks
23:11:39  <Bjarni> we used to use 220V
23:11:44  <Vikthor> ben_goodger: where? Here it was changed form 220 to 230 in the 90's
23:11:48  <Prof_Frink> Kettles take a year and a half to boil
23:11:52  <ben_goodger> good old tesla.
23:11:52  <ben_goodger> north america uses 110V, possibly the same reason
23:11:58  <ben_goodger> Vikthor: great britain, I believe
23:12:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> but actually, i remember talk from people who were around when they switched from 110 to 220 in germany
23:12:16  <Bjarni> is 230V some EU idea?
23:12:35  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: probably
23:12:47  <Eddi|zuHause3> probably the average between 220 and 240 :p
23:12:48  <Vikthor> 110V was used because formerly insufiecient isolation was availble
23:12:51  <Prof_Frink> Bloody euros, comin' along, stealing our volts...
23:12:52  <ben_goodger> being able to buy a lamp in france and plug it in in slovakia is quite useful
23:13:03  <Prof_Frink> </dailymail>
23:13:04  <ben_goodger> though you need to rewire the plug about fifty times
23:13:09  <ben_goodger> Prof_Frink: indeed
23:13:25  <ben_goodger> they don't hate the EU as much as they hate the poles, though
23:13:29  <Prof_Frink> No, you just need a sequence of fifty adapters plugged into each other
23:13:37  <ben_goodger> heh
23:13:38  <Vikthor> ben_goodger: if it it class 2(or so) insulation they you dont have to
23:13:44  <Bjarni> I have seen a transformer that worked efficiently with 80-265V input
23:13:56  <ben_goodger> Vikthor: you're telling me that slovakia uses french plugs?
23:13:59  <Bjarni> 47-63 Hz
23:14:21  <ben_goodger> spain doesn't, neither do sweden. great britain have our very own plugs
23:14:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> as far as i have seen, german plugs are designed to also fit into czech jacks
23:14:37  <Vikthor> ben_goodger: no, but if you use only two pins and don't have need for PE, than it's OK
23:14:59  <ben_goodger> so they use the same shape then
23:15:00  <ben_goodger> hmm
23:15:03  <Bjarni> Some Danish company invented their own plugs and they got approved as safe enough for selling
23:15:05  <ben_goodger> I didn't know that.
23:15:26  <Vikthor> but only for the two pins, not the third one, which is somtimes needed
23:15:29  <ben_goodger> great britain has a lovely system where you can electrocute yourself while plugging them in if you try hard
23:15:46  <Bjarni> now whenever somebody wants to sell plugs they need to be approved and the ministry don't know about electricity safety so they ask some professionals
23:15:51  <ben_goodger> but they do have switches on the sockets. I cannot work out why the europeans and americans haven't figured that out
23:16:02  <Bjarni> and naturally they claim everything to be unsafe except their own plugs >_<
23:16:20  <Prof_Frink> Indeed. Stops the electrickery leaking out when there's nothing plugged in.
23:16:39  <ben_goodger> no, stops the flow of current to whatever is connected to the socket
23:16:50  <ben_goodger> be it a fork or a malfunctioning vacuum cleaner.
23:17:06  <Prof_Frink> But doesn't stop you electrocuting yourself with a ren when very bored.
23:17:06  <ben_goodger> the plugs also _all_ have 3A fuses
23:17:13  <Bjarni> I don't get why the switches were removed from Danish power outlets a few years ago
23:17:21  <ben_goodger> no, but it goes some way to preventing it
23:17:34  <Vikthor> that's pitty what if I need more than 3A?
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23:17:49  <ben_goodger> then the plug will come with a 13A fuse instead
23:18:10  <Bjarni> here we aren't allowed to use more than 10A fuses
23:18:26  <Prof_Frink> ben_goodger: Yes. I got creative with jamming a pencil in the little gate the earth pin's meant to push down.
23:18:34  <Bjarni> if you need more then you need a custom high power design
23:18:38  <Vikthor> because i believe you can have as much as 25A from czech plug
23:19:34  <ben_goodger> Prof_Frink: indeed...
23:19:38  <ben_goodger> difficult though
23:19:55  <ben_goodger> you certainly can't stick a fork in it to electrocute yourself unless you're really dedicated
23:20:02  <Prof_Frink> Mmm.
23:20:12  <Prof_Frink> It's have to be a big fork too
23:20:19  <ben_goodger> yes
23:20:19  <Prof_Frink> and have the middle tines removed
23:20:24  <Prof_Frink> or bent back
23:20:37  <Prof_Frink> Now, a penknife with two blades...
23:21:09  <ben_goodger> you're overthinking again
23:21:24  <Prof_Frink> No
23:21:29  <Prof_Frink> My dad was underthinking.
23:21:42  <Vikthor> 1:21, time to go to sleep, good night
23:21:49  <ben_goodger> good night, CET
23:21:54  <Prof_Frink> "This socket's not connected ...BANG"
23:22:00  <ben_goodger> ah
23:22:01  <Vikthor> ben_goodger: CEST!
23:22:05  <ben_goodger> pleh
23:22:09  <Vikthor> :D
23:22:11  <Prof_Frink> "Well, that will definitely have blown the fuse"
23:22:18  <Prof_Frink> "BANG"
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23:22:46  <Prof_Frink> In his defence, this was in a bar. Beer was likely involved.
23:23:01  <ben_goodger> pints or 6dl?
23:23:02  <ben_goodger> :P
23:24:23  <Prof_Frink> Hurrah for Bombardier.
23:24:40  <Prof_Frink> Bottled beer that comes in *pints*.
23:25:06  <ben_goodger> great
23:25:26  <ben_goodger> I don't see why it can't come in 568 millilitre bottles
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