Log for #openttd on 16th June 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
00:08:02  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13531 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
00:08:02  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add [API CHANGE]: when building a bridge/tunnel for road/tram, the
00:08:02  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: BuildBridge/BuildTunnel function will now also make two half-road/half-tram
00:08:02  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: pieces on both ends of the bridge/tunnel, so it is easier for you to connect
00:08:02  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: them to your network. This give a more consistant behavior for road.
00:08:03  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Note: if the road pieces failed to build, but building the bridge/tunnel succeeded, the function still returns true (for the obvious reasons)
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01:32:19  <ecke> Ammler: we have played your version over net for 2 days and have only 2 problems with server (some problem in c++ ? and exchanging carriages).
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01:55:00  <Dr_Link> TTD or Locomotion?
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01:57:00  <Belugas> LocoTTD
01:57:07  <Belugas> of course
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02:24:10  <ecke> ottd
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07:29:48  <planetmaker> good morning everyone
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07:34:20  <ln> good morning, slartibartfast
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07:57:46  <peter1138> oh really
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09:36:17  <McChicken> hi there
09:36:47  <McChicken> is there anyone who could help me
09:36:50  <McChicken> ??
09:37:59  <McChicken> hello
09:38:00  <McChicken> ????????
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09:42:41  <Ammler> funny Chick
09:44:59  <McChicken> hi
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09:45:53  <Ammler> Hey
09:47:38  <ln> McChicken: learn to behave on irc.
09:48:28  <McChicken> could anybody help me please
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09:48:52  <ln> McChicken: that is the wrong question, you won't get answers like that.
09:49:59  <ln> McChicken: i'll tell you.
09:50:22  <Tefad> McChicken: on IRC you just ask your question. if anyone is around that can answer, they will.
09:50:33  <Tefad> otherwise you're just flapping in the breeze.
09:50:41  <ln> 1. Don't ask if you can ask, just ask.
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09:51:14  <ln> 2. Then *wait* patiently. 20 minutes at least, preferably an hour....
09:51:18  <Tefad> oh well
09:51:29  <ln> how about a ban?
09:51:32  <Tefad> impatient person is impatient
09:51:39  <Tefad> reminds me of my wife
09:51:45  <Tefad> impatient AND inattentive
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09:53:12  <ln> btw, McChicken also talked to me privately without being asked to.
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09:56:02  <ben_goodger> probably some ten-year-old
09:56:15  <ben_goodger> I was similar to that, without the multiple ?s
09:56:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> the internet -- where ten-year-olds are FBI agents
09:56:50  <ben_goodger> indeed
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09:58:19  <Gekz> I love idiots.
09:58:33  <ben_goodger> most people do
09:58:39  <ben_goodger> they continually vote for them, for instance
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10:07:08  <Gekz> lol.
10:07:25  <Gekz> Vote for the turd sandwich or the giant douche!
10:11:08  <ben_goodger> or indeed don't vote for the giant douche; he'll get elected anyway thanks to a few defective floridian balloting machines
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10:15:00  <Gekz> "defective"
10:16:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> you haven't watched futurama yet, have you? :p
10:17:19  <ben_goodger> bender's big score was an awful attempt to gain fan loyalty by cramming in as many references to the previous series as possible
10:17:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> so?
10:18:13  <ben_goodger> ...although I recognise the possibility that a killer robot from the year 3007 could have come back in time to kill his best friend, and accidentally erased all of gore's votes simultaneously
10:19:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> how else would that have happened?
10:19:08  <ben_goodger> I think it was more likely the voting machines
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10:26:37  <planetmaker> maybe he'll get on it; orders are bothering me ever since we got all those options.
10:26:49  <planetmaker> oh, nvm :P
10:28:34  * Rubidium wonders what functionality requires more clicks than the 'old' GUI except for setting up transfers
10:31:43  <planetmaker> Without meaning to complain: if you play with conditional transfers, time tabled waiting times on stations and then transfer and no load or full load orders, it takes a lot of time to set up a schedule
10:31:50  <planetmaker> and a lot of clicks.
10:32:15  <ccfreak2k> Damn. That fifty dollars could have gotten me
10:32:16  <planetmaker> But I have so far also no good idea how to make the UI better
10:32:17  <ccfreak2k> ONE GALLON OF GAS.
10:32:28  <Gekz> lol
10:32:33  <Gekz> Learn to walk again
10:32:41  <Gekz> I don't have a driver's licence
10:32:47  <Gekz> so i can't get addicted to oil :P
10:33:14  <planetmaker> with better = setting up a schedule with less clicking and less sub menues without getting an ugly and cluttered GUI
10:33:34  <Rubidium> planetmaker: for all 'basic' things you don't need sub menus
10:33:56  <Rubidium> full load: single click, unload: single click, default non-stop: single click
10:34:10  <Rubidium> goto: single click
10:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Gekz> so i can't get addicted to oil :P <- how many things made of plastic do you own?
10:34:22  <planetmaker> Rubidium: yes, but even then for a normal order like goto xy with full load and goto ab with unload you need two 4 per order entry
10:34:31  <Eddi|zuHause2> s/own/use/
10:34:34  <Vikthor> Gekz: You surely grow your own food using only animal or human force then.
10:34:58  <ben_goodger> ccfreak2k: hundred dollars, you philistine :P
10:34:59  <planetmaker> e.g. those clicks: goto, station, load menu, full order
10:35:11  <Gekz> Vikthor: I use 6 africans
10:35:12  <Vikthor> And certainly you do NOT shop at the supemarket ;)
10:35:46  <ben_goodger> ccfreak2k: and I think we'll be lucky if it stays below 100 by 2012
10:36:17  <Rubidium> planetmaker: there isn't a more efficient way of doing that, except using keyboard shortcut
10:36:20  <Rubidium> which already exist
10:36:24  <ccfreak2k> Yeah it was one of those.
10:36:49  <ben_goodger> no, it was 100
10:36:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> like 10 years ago, i read estimates that the oil reserves run out by 2020
10:36:55  <planetmaker> hm... they must have eluded me so far. Can you point me to a place where they're summarized for the orders menues?
10:37:05  <ben_goodger> Eddi|zuHause2: that's pretty much on track
10:37:21  <ben_goodger> might be 2025 if we're lucky.
10:37:39  <ben_goodger> uranium will be about 2030-2035, and then we're screwed
10:37:42  <planetmaker> besides that, I'm pretty sure there *is* a more efficient way - but I just don't know how, given the boundary conditions
10:38:29  <planetmaker> e.g. the functionality of the quick goto patch is IMO a step in the direction of a quicker orders GUI.
10:39:13  <Rubidium> that's only for the first order
10:39:39  <planetmaker> for the first time you give orders. Not the first order only
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10:40:29  <planetmaker> e.g. keeping the goto button selected continues to work until you close the orders window
10:42:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> what i found an annoying usability regression (i think since the moving of orders got in (long time ago)) was that when you click on "go to" and then on an order where you want to insert a new order, it looses the "go to" selection
10:44:25  <ccfreak2k> That seems like a five second fix.
10:44:43  <planetmaker> 5
10:44:45  <planetmaker> 4
10:44:46  <planetmaker> 3
10:44:48  <planetmaker> 2
10:44:50  <planetmaker> 1
10:44:57  <planetmaker> can you show me, ccfreak2k ?
10:45:32  <ccfreak2k> I don't have the code.
10:45:38  <ccfreak2k> Or the will.
10:45:47  <planetmaker> svn://
10:45:47  <ccfreak2k> I've just learned to work around it.
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10:46:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't want to "work around" stuff
10:46:37  <planetmaker> things are not necessarily as easy as they may seem...
10:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> i used the order list like that for 10 years...
10:47:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> or more
10:53:54  <ccfreak2k> Maybe it's order_gui.cpp
10:54:14  <ccfreak2k> /** @file order_gui.cpp GUI related to orders. */
10:54:27  <ccfreak2k> I see they value descriptive comments.
10:55:19  <planetmaker> I'm pretty sure it's in that file :)
10:56:24  <Maedhros> that comment is pretty much only there so Doxygen parses the file
10:57:03  <ccfreak2k> Maybe it's OrderClick_Goto()
10:58:20  <ccfreak2k> Now if only I knew what was happening inside that function.
11:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm sure it is well documented :p
11:01:03  <Gekz> I be hating
11:01:10  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: why is there a pipe symbol in your name
11:01:14  <Gekz> I've always wondered
11:01:29  <Gekz> Eddi at home 2?
11:02:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> because just "Eddi" is likely to be taken in almost any network
11:02:01  <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause2, it's not the lack of documentation (the code explains itself, really), it's the lack of my knowledge of C.
11:02:20  <Gekz> Eddi|zuHause2: it's not taken here.
11:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> languages are all alike...
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11:21:16  <Ammler> # und heut Abend
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13:43:55  <peter1138> you're just too physical, physical to me
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13:47:47  <Gekz> O.o
13:47:49  <Gekz> <3
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13:51:09  <Ammler> peter1138: I did now the "fast" train and found a small description glitch:
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13:51:41  <Ammler> (speed in the buy window)
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13:55:53  <ccfreak2k> I wouldn't mind a train that could go 65,535 KPH.
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13:56:07  <Gekz> I would.
13:56:14  <Maedhros> Ammler: how did you get a speed of 65,918 km/h? speed is a word value...
13:56:25  <Ammler> FFFF
13:56:39  <Maedhros> unless this is due to conversion from km/h to mph and back again with slightly different conversion factors
13:56:50  <peter1138> (65535*10/16)*103/64
13:57:23  <Maedhros> fair enough
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13:57:38  <Gekz> PEOOOOOOOOOOW
13:57:38  <SpComb> magic numbers
13:57:41  <Gekz> there it goes
13:57:42  <Gekz> look at it go
13:57:45  <Gekz> nope too late
13:57:47  <Gekz> its GONE
13:57:49  <Gekz> GAWWWN
13:57:51  <Nite> hi
13:59:32  <Nite> ... just for the record, send to depot (expect with depot orders) almost anytime desyncs me in 061 ...
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14:00:07  <ccfreak2k> Coincidentally, 65,535 KPH is about mach 53.
14:00:42  <Ammler> ccfreak2k: I made it for logic gates: <-- not
14:01:19  <Pikka> Maedhros: the speed unit for trains in TTD is mph*1.6, not km/h
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14:01:31  <TiberiusTeng> ahh ... get the texture atlas & palette animation done, then I probably put an 'alpha' build of OpenGL blitter for test ...
14:01:34  <Pikka> it was km/h for a while in OTTD, but I think that got fixed. ;)
14:01:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> 53 = 42+10+1; 2*10+4-1=23
14:01:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> now THAT is a coincidence :p
14:03:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> imho that "fix" is stupid
14:03:08  <TiberiusTeng> I finally discovered that switching textures are the cause of slowdown on OpenGL blitter, what a shame ...
14:03:50  <Maedhros> Pikka: aha, that makes sense :)
14:03:55  <peter1138> combine sprites? heh
14:04:01  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause2: It has to be so to maintain compatibility with existing NewGRF
14:04:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a questionable design goal
14:05:28  <ccfreak2k> Ammler, what kind of gate is in that image?
14:05:33  <Ammler> NOT
14:05:48  <ccfreak2k> Neat.
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14:08:05  <TiberiusTeng> peter1138, I think a 2048x2048 can accomodate original TTD sprites
14:08:21  <TiberiusTeng> but not so sure for many NewGRF sets ...
14:08:35  <Pikka> Eddi: whereas arbitrarily and pointlessly changing the meaning of widely-used values is good practice?
14:09:14  <TiberiusTeng> and for now it seems spritecache will reload every sprites when loading game, creating a new game or returning to the title screen (i.e. pass them to blitter's Encode() function)
14:09:34  <TiberiusTeng> but not releasing them at all (only depend on memory usage I believe?)
14:09:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> Pikka: no, but reducing the amount of arbitrary and pointless conversions to clean up the code is
14:09:53  <peter1138> well you'll need a clean up routine, heh
14:10:28  <peter1138> the conversions are only for display porpoises anyway
14:10:59  <TiberiusTeng> I haven't dig into NewGRF, GFX, scriptcache parts yet! the blitter part is already complex enough ...
14:11:15  <Pikka> if it's in mph it has to convert to show kph, if it's kph it has to convert to show mph.  same amount of conversion either way.
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14:11:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> but it is in neither mph nor kph
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14:12:10  <TiberiusTeng> I'm using blitter's Encode() to transform sprites into OpenGL textures ... seems not the best choice, but I don't think fitting OpenGL texture management into spritecache is a good solution
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14:12:30  <peter1138> probably not, no
14:13:18  <Pikka> with mp*1.6, 0x80 = 80mph, etc. :P
14:13:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> that's the most stupid reason you could come up with...
14:13:54  <TiberiusTeng> anyway, I'm wondering why spritecache keep re-encoding the same sprite without releasing the old version
14:14:13  <TiberiusTeng> (after NewGRF settings has changed, loaded a game, returned to title screen, etc.)
14:14:29  <Pikka> well, actually the reason is because that's the way it's coded in TTD, so changing it breaks the default vehicles (and every grf set ever).  but whatever.
14:14:46  <peter1138> TiberiusTeng: for the current blitters the memory is freed, and no additional clean up is necessary
14:15:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> imho, shifting a few values by 1 is not such a big deal that it should be considered "breaking"
14:15:48  <TiberiusTeng> yes. I added a hook near spritecache's free() part to call up my OpenGL blitter, but I never come across it actually 'releasing' sprites
14:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> besides, sets like DBSetXL would actually benefit from changing speeds from 59, 69, 99 to 60, 70, 100 km/h
14:17:03  <TiberiusTeng> I think spritecache's using (only) LRU and memory size limit to cleanup sprites ...
14:19:04  <TiberiusTeng> ... ahh, I found it. a big free() in GfxInitSpriteMem() ...
14:19:06  <TiberiusTeng> that's too bad
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14:43:42  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13532 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_threads.cpp api/ai_object.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: in MultiPlayer SignID wasn't set correctly, causing weird effects. Code is now more unified, which should avoid simular effects in the future (tnx to glx for initial patch)
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15:01:38  <peter1138> TiberiusTeng: as i said, you'll need to add stuff there :)
15:03:04  <ccfreak2k> TiberiusTeng, is OpenGL supposed to improve performance, or is it just an alternate video driver?
15:06:28  <TiberiusTeng> I hope it can improve performance, but for now it's slower than 32bpp-optimized/32bpp-anim.
15:06:55  <TiberiusTeng> it's some kind of proof-of-concept/pre-alpha now ...
15:08:15  <TiberiusTeng> well prettier transparent view, station roof and newspaper's a plus too ;)
15:09:01  <TiberiusTeng> but it's meaningless if it's still (or even more) CPU-bound
15:09:28  <peter1138> what would be nice is to use z-index
15:09:39  <peter1138> to remove the need for sprite sorting
15:09:45  <peter1138> but that would need a lot more changes
15:10:15  <TiberiusTeng> yep ... for now I try to constrain myself at blitter level
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15:26:38  <ln> does "X bought the farm" mean "X died"?
15:27:04  <Belugas> that is a very strange question...
15:27:15  <SmatZ> hey I bought the farm ! :-D
15:27:15  <Belugas> i fail to see thr connection
15:27:32  <ln> not at all, it's related to English, which is on topic.
15:28:48  <Pikka> yes, it does ln
15:29:27  <ccfreak2k> In typical slang, yes.
15:29:32  <ln> great. thank you.
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15:31:46  <Swallow> Hello
15:32:14  <Pikka> hello
15:32:50  <Swallow> I'm doing some experimenting with editing the openttd scource...
15:33:17  <Swallow> is it possible to write stuff to the console?
15:34:01  <Swallow> if it is, please tell me how :)
15:34:29  <SpComb> the debug functions?
15:35:05  <Swallow> i don't know exactly
15:36:04  <Swallow> i just need something like print() in php
15:36:46  <Maedhros> which OS are you using?
15:36:48  <SpComb> it depends on what kind of stuff you're trying to write
15:36:52  <Touqen> You can do printf, or you use DEBUG to print to the debug console.
15:37:19  <Swallow> k thanks i'll look some stuff op later, going to dinner now
15:40:35  <Belugas> ln, i was referring to the relationship of the two sentences.  That is waht i found strange
15:40:49  <Belugas> now, i was not aware it was slang
15:40:57  <ccfreak2k> It's an idiom. An old one.
15:41:06  <skidd13> Swallow: Hmm printf
15:41:08  <ccfreak2k> Dates back to at least WWII, probably earlier.
15:41:48  <Pikka> WWI-ish
15:41:54  <skidd13> Swallow: ->
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15:42:57  <Pikka> a conflation of "to buy it" and "to become a landowner" (where the land in question is a cemetary plot), apparently.
15:43:00  <SpComb> if OpenTTD provides some kind of debug-output layer, then you should use that instead of printf directly
15:43:52  <ln> "X bought the farm" was used occasionally in Robert Heinlein's novel Starship Troopers.
15:44:21  <ccfreak2k> Another possible history is the fact that death benefits would be paid, which could be enough to pay off a mortgage for a house...or farm.
15:44:41  <skidd13> SpComb: true... but that's mostly used for "ingame" debug... printf is IMO faster for dev debug, but thats personal ;)
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15:49:14  <peter1138> ln, yes
15:59:29  <ccfreak2k> YAPP looks really cool.
15:59:31  <ccfreak2k> :(
15:59:43  <peter1138> it is. why ":(" ?
16:01:35  <ccfreak2k> Because I'd have to patch openttd to use it.
16:01:48  <Belugas> Someone told me during the weekend that it has desynched, on a coop game
16:02:10  <ccfreak2k> Well I play offline anyway.
16:03:51  <Belugas> that is irrelevant.  If there is a problem, it has to be fixed.  We can not release something that works only for offline players.  I hope you do understand that :)
16:04:27  <ccfreak2k> I never asked/demanded it to be released.
16:04:40  <Belugas> note that said desynch report might not be related to YAPP at all, for what it's worth...
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16:19:03  <michi_cc> Belugas: a desync directly related to YAPP is rather unlikely because there isn't any randomness in YAPP. It's of course entirely possible that I'm using some pre-existing functionallity in a not-quite-as-designed way leading to desyncs.
16:19:23  <peter1138> well
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16:19:32  <peter1138> i reckon committing it will find it quicker ;)
16:19:47  <michi_cc> of course, it would help if such errors are actually reported to me. and without any savegame there's exactly zero I can do
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16:35:36  <Belugas> GRANTED michi_cc
16:35:37  *** Osai is now known as Osai`off
16:35:39  <Belugas> MMH...
16:35:45  <Belugas> granted michi_cc
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16:37:41  <Belugas> toolbar_gui is a nest of hardcoded nyumbers
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16:38:41  <Dr_Link> So, Chris Sawyer's Locomotion or the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe. Which one do you find more fun?
16:39:36  <Belugas> OpenTTD all the way :)
16:39:59  <Prof_Frink> Well, seeing as I played TTO (Not even D) for more than ten minutes, TTD.
16:40:42  <peter1138> oin te oin
16:40:43  <peter1138> er
16:40:45  <peter1138> pom te pom
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16:42:05  <Dr_Link> Locomotion wasn't that bad
16:42:14  <Dr_Link> in fact, it got me into The TT series.
16:43:29  <Dr_Link> Why does everyone seem to think that Locomotion was bad?
16:43:42  <Dr_Link> That's like saying... "Dig Dug" was bad when it first came out.
16:43:50  <SmatZ> why do you think so?
16:44:29  <Dr_Link> why do I think so what?
16:44:59  <Belugas> why do you think everything seem to think Locomotion was bad?
16:45:06  <SmatZ> why do you think people dislike Locomotion?
16:48:52  <Dr_Link> because everywhere I look up Locomotion related information, it usually says somewhere that the author preferred TT(D) more.
16:49:29  <Dr_Link> I liked Locomotion a lot, though, and most people didn't like it because of the interface. I guess it came naturally for me because I played Chris Sawyer's RollerCoaster Tycoon first.
16:49:43  <Belugas> good point
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16:49:55  <Belugas> most of the time, people complain about the interface
16:50:03  <Dr_Link> screw that, it was EASY For me.
16:50:10  <Dr_Link> And TTD wasn't that hard to figure out either.
16:50:46  <Belugas> screw what?  people judgment and experience of playing?
16:50:51  <Belugas> sorry, but srew you then
16:51:14  <Belugas> don't judge people based on your own perception
16:51:21  <Dr_Link> no, screw the opinion of people who said it was the most horrible game ever because of one or two design flaws.
16:51:22  <Belugas> this is silly
16:51:43  <Dr_Link> I found one that was 1/5 stars on the game because they didn't like the lack of sub-toolbars.
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16:51:47  <Dr_Link> I'd say the new system is a bit better because you have an idea of where it goes in a linear form (because trains do move in a linear fashion) instead of just laying down random track... it also prevents those terrible mis-alignment mistakes.
16:51:54  <Dr_Link> that's why it came natrually for me.
16:52:02  <Dr_Link> I had a bit of a learning curve learning TTD.
16:52:36  <Belugas> you are entirely entitled to like it.  it is your opinion and your right.  do not deny those who are not in accordance with your views, please
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16:53:11  <Dr_Link> I suppose I did deny it. But, on the same token, if they were in my position they would have done the same to me.
16:53:18  <Dr_Link> Anyway.
16:56:00  <Belugas> granted, but they are not in your position.  for the record, i tried loco before touching ttd. it did not felt as natural as ttd was.  and my gaming experience was one of Myst (and others of the series).  And other games back in the 1980s, if ou see waht i mean
16:56:54  <Belugas> so i sticked to ttd because i wanted to play long hours with an interface that was nice and clean for me. that's how i felt and still do
16:57:04  <Belugas> so, really, a personnal situation
16:58:04  <Dr_Link> I suppose, from my standpoint, there are a lot of diverse personal situations out there
16:58:14  <Dr_Link> I started with Sawyer's RCT series.
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16:58:50  <Dr_Link> But I jumped to the TT series when RCT3 came out because... well, I say the interface sucks on this game just as much as what other people think about Locomotion's!!
17:01:45  <Belugas> so this is why debates over personnal preferences is basically not sane at all
17:02:09  <Belugas> yu can argue about something that is based on logic
17:02:12  *** tokai|ni [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:02:48  <Belugas> but as soon as the emotional part kicks in, it's useless
17:03:05  * Bjarni wonders about a system to enforce proper speaking on TV
17:03:31  <Bjarni> they just talked about the US state of Missiffifi (or something like that)
17:03:48  <Bjarni> >_<
17:03:56  <Belugas> close the TV, then :)
17:04:00  *** tokai|ni [] has joined #openttd
17:04:30  <Bjarni> Belugas: actually I was thinking about other people
17:04:32  *** lobster_MB [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:04:47  <Belugas> don't care about them. care abuot yourself
17:04:58  <Bjarni> I know how to speak but I bet when some people hear it incorrect then they will speak incorrect
17:05:30  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13533 /trunk/src/ (bridge_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Replace direct class member access of GUIList with the appropriate function calls
17:05:47  <Bjarni> you see somebody got the idea to replace a certain word by another word (a made up one that sounded somewhat like it) and now it's fairly common that people can't figure out to say the right one
17:05:51  *** lobster_MB [] has joined #openttd
17:05:54  *** Mchl [] has joined #openttd
17:06:12  <Bjarni> I mean you hear politicians and other important people on TV/radio using the incorrect one
17:06:22  <Mchl> hello
17:06:41  <Bjarni> Hello Mchl
17:06:44  * peter1138 plays with ZynAddSubFX
17:07:04  <Bjarni> btw how do you say Mchl?
17:07:21  <Bjarni> My Polish isn't good enough to figure it out on my own :(
17:07:39  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
17:08:40  <peter1138> how do you pronounce bjarni?
17:08:52  <Zahl> like byarny
17:08:56  *** gousty [] has joined #openttd
17:08:58  <Bjarni> like it's spelled :)
17:09:17  <peter1138> buh-jar-nee then
17:09:25  *** murr4y [murray@2001:470:1f0a:1be::ea7:beef] has joined #openttd
17:09:28  <Bjarni> buh?
17:09:42  <peter1138> bee-jar-nee?
17:09:49  <peter1138> j is not y in english
17:10:01  <Mchl> Bjarni: You spell it
17:10:04  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13534 /trunk/src/ (group_gui.cpp vehicle_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Replace the main part of VehiclesListBase sorting with GUIList function calls
17:10:10  <Zahl> yeah thats why i replaced it :P
17:10:20  <Mchl> it's my name stripped of vowels
17:10:35  <peter1138> mochul!
17:10:43  <Bjarni> so you are named Amichel?
17:10:50  <Mchl> err... not really
17:10:54  <Zahl> mochool
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17:11:08  <Prof_Frink> peter1138's real name is peteriieb, but the's trying to be 1337.
17:11:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: skidd13 * r13535 /trunk/src/sortlist_type.h:
17:11:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Protect GUIList internals
17:11:14  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: VL_FIST_SORT should be set after list rebuild too
17:11:14  <peter1138> yes
17:11:15  <Bjarni> Macahala?
17:11:25  <pavel1269> hi
17:11:29  <Mchl> not good
17:11:30  <peter1138> skidd13: separate commits!
17:11:35  <Belugas> michel
17:11:45  <Mchl> that's closer
17:11:50  <Prof_Frink> Dave.
17:11:50  <peter1138> mikhala?
17:11:53  <glx> michal
17:11:54  <Zahl> my nick is my name stripped of consonants
17:11:57  <skidd13> peter1138: .... :( sorry
17:11:58  <Zahl> err wait...
17:12:02  <Mchl> Michel is my name in French
17:12:11  <Bjarni> French?
17:12:11  <Belugas> Michou!
17:12:12  <Prof_Frink> Michelle.
17:12:22  <Bjarni> why French?
17:12:25  <Mchl> in polish it's Micha³
17:12:37  <Belugas> because some people might be French...
17:12:44  <pavel1269> so glx was right
17:13:08  <Mchl> yeah
17:13:17  <Mchl> apart from l-³ issue
17:13:18  <peter1138> Prof_Frink is really prof-underscore-frink
17:13:23  <Bjarni> <Mchl> in polish it's Micha³ <-- then why isn't your nick Micha?
17:13:33  <peter1138> ³ is not a letter :D
17:13:34  <glx> my keyborad doesn't have weird chars
17:13:39  <Bjarni> --- micha :No such nick/channel
17:13:49  <Mchl> lol
17:13:56  <pavel1269> i cant type "³" ... only with ctrl + c ... ;)
17:14:07  <Prof_Frink> You mean mmb
17:14:11  <Bjarni> <glx> my keyborad doesn't have weird chars <-- like π and ° and ?
17:14:19  <Maedhros> i can't even see ᅵ ;)
17:14:22  <Maedhros> 'tis not in my font
17:14:29  <Prof_Frink> I can see it.
17:14:35  <SmatZ> yeah, I see it, too
17:14:36  <Prof_Frink> It's a question mark in a diamond.
17:14:43  <SmatZ> nice square
17:14:52  <Mchl> try to pronounce that
17:15:01  <SmatZ> s-q-u-a-r-e
17:15:06  <glx> ł
17:15:06  <Prof_Frink> mishasplat
17:15:28  <Mchl> rofl
17:15:36  * Prof_Frink straightens out glx's character
17:15:36  <Prof_Frink> t
17:15:57  <Mchl> here's article about strange letter:
17:16:17  <glx> that's what I typed
17:16:17  <Prof_Frink> Well, why didn't you say that?
17:16:17  <Mchl> and if you wan't to pronounce my name say: me how
17:16:20  <Mchl> in english
17:16:27  *** Osai^Kendo is now known as Osai^Kendo`off
17:16:27  <Prof_Frink> Mchl is a cat.
17:16:42  <Mchl> a cat?
17:17:04  <Prof_Frink> Miaow.
17:17:20  <Mchl> that's how my cousins from USA call me... yes...'
17:18:05  <Sacro> SmatZ: it's not a square
17:18:34  <Bjarni> <-- this is what it looks like on my monitor
17:18:48  <Bjarni> and yes all the chars I wrote are on my keyboard
17:19:11  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: The char you copypasta'd came out as superscript 3
17:19:35  *** Osai^Kendo`off is now known as Osai
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17:19:51  <Bjarni> ?
17:20:33  <Wolf01> hello
17:20:36  <Mchl> yeah, that happens
17:20:49  <Bjarni> looking at the png I noticed a typo >_<
17:20:58  <Bjarni> which I didn't notice until now
17:21:07  <Bjarni> *keyboard
17:21:12  <Mchl> it's ISO-8859-1 and ISO-8859-2 compatibility
17:21:16  <Bjarni> in case you are unable to figure it out :P
17:21:34  <Prof_Frink>
17:21:36  <Mchl> or lack of it actually :P
17:22:05  <Bjarni> oh like that
17:22:39  <glx> Mchl: topic says UTF8
17:22:48  <Mchl> once I got my debit card with 3 superscript instead of proper letter
17:23:07  <Bjarni> nice
17:23:12  <Prof_Frink> That'll be you UTFail8ing.
17:23:14  <Bjarni> specially if they were the pin code
17:23:30  <Prof_Frink> numbercode!
17:24:06  <Mchl> my client says it's UTF-8...
17:24:09  <Mchl> :(
17:24:59  <Prof_Frink> How murky.
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17:25:47  <Mchl> I'll just stick to ASCII, to avoid further confusion...
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17:26:56  <pavel1269> can anyone help me with getting squirrel to work? :X i am confused about that very much ...
17:27:03  <Prof_Frink> Feed it nuts.
17:27:28  <Bjarni> only a dick would do that
17:27:57  <Sacro> Bjarni: you'd know
17:28:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: belugas * r13536 /trunk/src/toolbar_gui.cpp:
17:28:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Bit shifting is not really required when you know exactly the value to use.
17:28:27  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: Even more when it's a parameter.
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17:35:14  <pavel1269> noone here works in squirrel or trying to make own AI? :/
17:35:41  * dih has  too ;-)
17:36:05  <dih> pavel1269: whats the matter?
17:36:11  <dih> got issues with sq?
17:36:54  <glx> pavel1269: there's #openttd.noai for that
17:37:13  <pavel1269> oh, thx
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18:05:25  <Belugas> there... refreshed ->
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18:17:29  * peter1138 checks
18:17:57  <peter1138> yay, less magic :D
18:18:21  <peter1138> though that GfxFillRect is a bit mystic
18:18:27  <Belugas> true
18:18:29  <peter1138> unrelated to the patch of course :)
18:18:42  <Belugas> many more are needed to be fixed and documented, by the way
18:18:51  <Belugas> all that drop down stuff, for instance
18:19:03  <Belugas> Gfx...  got to scratch it a bit now...
18:19:15  <Belugas> next patch tough
18:23:59  <peter1138> :)
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19:31:54  <peter1138> hm
19:31:58  <peter1138> in my profiling
19:32:04  <peter1138> of pile transport
19:32:16  <peter1138> for 1000 ticks
19:32:20  <peter1138> trunk: 8.23 seconds
19:32:24  <peter1138> yapp: 6.11 seconds
19:32:51  <Ammler> how to change that, so we would also see the train number? assert(IsFrontEngine(v));
19:33:00  <peter1138> what?
19:33:09  <Ammler> we have asserts with yapp all the time
19:33:27  <Ammler> I think, It would help, if we know, which vehicle that was.
19:33:36  <peter1138> if (!IsFrontEngine(v)) error("somethingsomething %d", v->unitnumber); or something like that
19:33:53  <Ammler> would you print something else?
19:34:20  <Ammler> can I include that only serverside?
19:34:22  <Belugas> what about "whateveryouwant" ?
19:34:31  <Ammler> hmm?
19:34:45  <Ammler> what do you want?
19:35:03  <Rubidium> peter1138: odd results, I got the opposite result (using gprof)
19:35:09  <ln>
19:36:28  <peter1138> trunk:   1.94      3.46     0.16 12679237     0.00     0.00  Train::GetImage(Direction) const
19:36:34  <peter1138> yapp:   3.03      2.13     0.19 12676062     0.00     0.00  Train::GetImage(Direction) const
19:36:42  <peter1138> some things are different
19:36:47  <peter1138> but overall it's less
19:36:54  <peter1138> maybe more than a 1000 ticks is needed
19:38:30  <peter1138> oh, and more than one run each? heh
19:38:54  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13537 /trunk/src/ (14 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [FS#2090](r13523): QSortT won't work this way, use Dimension instead of uint16[2] for resolutions
19:38:57  <Rubidium> yup
19:39:08  <peter1138> what save did you profile? pile?
19:39:17  <Rubidium> my conclusion was: about 20% extra time used by TrainController
19:39:26  <Rubidium> peter1138: one of the pile's yes
19:39:38  <peter1138> hmm
19:39:44  <peter1138> 5.83% for traincontroller itself in trunk
19:39:51  <peter1138> 5.89% for traincontroller in yapp
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19:40:14  <peter1138> but i haven't looked at what's change inside the function
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19:40:19  <peter1138> it could be half as long for all i know :)
19:40:49  <Rubidium> did you run with the same config?
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19:41:52  <Ammler> would it also help, if we create a save right before the assert?
19:42:24  <peter1138> yes, same config
19:42:51  <peter1138> everything common is all in ~/.openttd
19:43:25  <Rubidium> or michi_cc silently reduces the impact
19:44:07  <glx> Ammler: a save right before an assert is always good
19:44:08  <peter1138> using ./configure --enable-profiling=1
19:44:58  <Ammler> glx: can I include a function to create that?
19:45:15  <Ammler> or is that too late then?
19:45:40  <peter1138> if you know it's going to crash then it is already too late
19:45:56  <Rubidium> move autosave to daily and don't thread it
19:46:06  <glx> the best way is to use an msvc release
19:46:16  <glx> on assert it creates a dump
19:46:34  <Ammler> michi_cc: asked for save, but we are not albe to reproduce it, it just happens areound every 3-4 h
19:47:15  <Ammler> glx: server is the only one, which asserts, afaik
19:47:50  <Ammler> and that is a linux one.
19:49:02  <Ammler> Rubidium: how do I "not thread it"?
19:49:32  <glx> the assert should happen on clients too
19:50:19  <Ammler> but we just lose connection and go back to start screen
19:50:39  <Ammler> oh, it might be some clients crahses too
19:50:59  <Rubidium> that sounds like a desync too
19:51:24  <Rubidium> if the server dies in an assert in the 'game code', then the clients must die too
19:51:29  <Rubidium> otherwise they are in desync
19:52:52  <Ammler> Rubidium: well, I am not sure anymore
19:52:58  <Ammler> myself wasn't connected.
19:56:01  <Bjarni> hmmm.... great route planning tool. I just typed in that I need to go from station A to station B (basically) and I want to know which departure that fits my time needs. It would take 6-8 minutes by train but it did manage to recommend a 20 minute bus ride o_O
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20:06:15  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:08:42  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r13538 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix (r12740)[FS#2087]: ChildSprites of foundations are not necessarily consecutive.
20:08:54  <Ammler> Rubidium: daily autosave?
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20:09:46  <pavel1269> gn
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20:16:55  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13539 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix (r13537): signed/unsigned warnings
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20:26:00  * Belugas yawns
20:26:05  * Belugas stretches
20:26:14  * Belugas wants to go home
20:27:11  <Touqen_> Want to quit my job for me?
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20:28:17  <Belugas> you would not be able to sustain it a week ;)
20:28:37  <Belugas> plus, you need to know Delphi!
20:28:43  <Belugas> and payment processing
20:28:50  <Belugas> and that is a bitch ;)
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20:35:05  <Bjarni> Belugas: yeah... a whole lot of people understands shit about payment processing and considers it a bitch
20:35:31  <Bjarni> but I guess the latter is mainly due to their own economical skills.... or lack hereof  :P
20:36:04  * Belugas nods
20:36:49  <Bjarni> a fellow student once told me that students are so poor that all of them have to have negative amounts on the bank account
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20:37:09  <Bjarni> which has to be positive on the first every month
20:38:02  <Bjarni> I don't get that.... wouldn't it be wiser to use the same amount every month and then make sure it would not reach negative values so you will avoid the not so nice fees they charge?
20:38:32  <Bjarni> I mean the fee for using more money than you have is really nasty.... you should really work on avoiding it
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20:40:30  <Bjarni> wow..... I just found some "special" desktop wallpapers online... They are special in the way that they work on both windows and mac
20:40:47  <Bjarni> err.... are there any wallpapers that are windows only or mac only? :)
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20:41:17  <Bjarni> last time I checked it's just an image so it would work with any OS
20:41:25  <Bjarni> except freeDOS :P
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20:41:52  <Chrill> Bjarni, do not underestimate the power of special desktop wallpapers
20:42:15  <Bjarni> I just downloaded one
20:42:26  <Bjarni> turns out to be an 800x600 jpg
20:42:35  <Chrill> Wow, that is truly impressive
20:42:53  <Chrill> (wasn't that a normal computer screen 15 years ago?)
20:43:29  <ln> Bjarni: are those wallpapers compatible with both intel and ppc, too?
20:43:38  <Bjarni> err
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20:44:14  <Bjarni> considering they show stuff of Spore, which is for Intel OSX only I don't think they tested it on PPC
20:44:17  <Bjarni> :P
20:45:00  * Rubidium wonders whether my 6637 by 3787 tiff background image would work on OSX or Windows
20:45:03  <Eddi|zuHause> my computer is totally fucked up today...
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20:45:30  <Bjarni> <Chrill> (wasn't that a normal computer screen 15 years ago?) <--- I upgraded to 640x400 14 years ago
20:45:32  *** Eddi|zuHause2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:46:13  <Bjarni> didn't get anything bigger than 640x480 until 10 years ago (but then I changed the max resolution to 1600x1200)
20:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> the first screen that i remember could already do 640x480
20:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause> that must have been in the early 90's
20:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem was graphics cards back then
20:51:14  <Eddi|zuHause> they could do 640x480 only in 16 colours, so most games did 320x200 with 256 colours instead (like civ)
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20:54:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... can i remount / as ro on a running system?
20:56:08  <Rubidium> mount -o remount,ro /dev/?d??
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20:59:15  <Eddi|zuHause> that says it's busy (of course)
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21:00:28  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a bad feeling that one of my harddisks is going to fail very soon
21:01:26  <Eddi|zuHause> but i have an important presentation tomorrow, so i don't have a lot of time to take care of it
21:02:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so i wanted to take a backup of / before it's too late, and i'd rather have it ro before dd-ing
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21:10:52  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> they could do 640x480 only in 16 colours <-- heh... I used 640x400 in monocrome
21:10:59  <Bjarni> aka 1 bit colours
21:11:09  <Bjarni> it actually looked nice
21:11:15  <Bjarni> believe it or not
21:11:54  <Bjarni> * Rubidium wonders whether my 6637 by 3787 tiff background image would work on OSX or Windows <-- it would work on OSX as it has a feature that allows it to scale images to fit the screen :)
21:12:41  <Rubidium> but does it support tiffs ootb?
21:13:14  <Bjarni> I think there is tiff support
21:13:30  <Bjarni> what is ootb?
21:14:23  <Rubidium> out of the box
21:14:29  <Bjarni> ahh
21:14:30  <ln> out of the bjarni
21:14:37  <Bjarni> then I would say yes
21:14:42  <Bjarni> and ignore ln :P
21:15:58  * Rubidium slaps Bjarni for mentioning someone on an ignore list
21:16:12  <Bjarni> ignore list
21:16:15  <Bjarni> now you are talking
21:16:22  * Bjarni updates his ignore list
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21:17:34  <ln> in denmark, ignore lists are written on papyrus.
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21:21:18  <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> they could do 640x480 only in 16 colours <-- heh... I used 640x400 in monocrome <- of course nobody cares for my _real_ problems :p
21:21:48  *** helb [~helb@] has joined #openttd
21:22:20  <Bjarni> I learned ages ago not to care for people's issues if they show up online to talk about them
21:23:52  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:24:41  <Bjarni> for all I know you are getting online from a mental institute where some doctor is experimenting in getting mentally unstable people to become mentally stable by caring for people on IRC
21:26:46  <Touqen> The interwebs is a great place to vent.
21:26:57  <Touqen> It's like a "Anonymous Anonymous"
21:42:14  <Eddi|zuHause> <Bjarni> for all I know you are getting online from a mental institute where some doctor is experimenting in getting mentally unstable people to become mentally stable by caring for people on IRC <<- for all I know, that could be an exact description of you.
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21:54:08  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: no way
21:54:15  <Bjarni> I'm coding stuff
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21:54:51  <Bjarni> so if that were really true then I would either not be able to code or I would code full time
21:55:26  <Bjarni> I can code and I lack time to code which means that I got other stuff to do
21:55:31  <Bjarni> so I'm not locked up :)
21:55:45  <Bjarni> and right now I have something else to do
21:55:50  <Bjarni> which is called sleep
21:56:06  <Bjarni> or regenerating depending on your race
21:56:10  <Bjarni> goodnight
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22:30:05  <Ammler> oh, error does also asser, hmm
22:33:48  <Ammler> v->unitnumber gave 0
22:34:05  <Ammler> is there something else to identify "v"?
22:34:45  <Rubidium> unitnumber is not something that identifies a vehicle
22:34:59  <Rubidium> you could use the VehicleID though
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22:45:05  <SmatZ> Ammler: you may use v->First()->unitnumber
22:45:13  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...]
22:45:16  <SmatZ> to know what was the "unitnumber" of the consist
22:45:26  <SmatZ> but yeah, v->index is unique
22:46:41  <Ammler> SmatZ: I thought, if I know, which train is quilty for the assert, if would be easier to reproduce
22:46:53  <Ammler> :-)
22:47:27  <SmatZ> Ammler: v->index identifies vehicle (it can be a loco, wagon, road vehicle, ship, effect vehicle, invalid vehicle ,. ...)
22:47:40  <SmatZ> v->First()->unitnumber is the number in game
22:47:44  <SmatZ> like "Train 650"
22:48:03  <SmatZ> v->unitnumber is zero for non-front engines (and wagons)
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