Config
Log for #openttd on 12th July 2008:
Times are UTC Toggle Colours
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08:28:32  <Wolf01> hello
08:42:42  <dih> hi
08:42:48  <dih> lag :P
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09:17:42  <fmauNeko> plop
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09:25:09  <Helion> Hi there
09:25:25  <Helion> [root@home Transport Tycoon Deluxe]# openttd
09:25:25  <Helion> No protocol specified
09:25:25  <Helion> No protocol specified
09:25:33  <Helion> the game doesn`t start
09:25:42  <Helion> although everything was fine yesterday
09:25:44  <Helion> any ideas?
09:27:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> don't play games as root
09:28:01  <Helion> it doesn`t work using a normal user either
09:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> i didn't suggest that ;)
09:28:18  <Helion> I just tried it with root afret reinstalling
09:28:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> try starting with -d3
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09:29:07  <Helion> seems to be working fine thank you
09:29:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> -d3 doesn't actually change anything... it just makes the output more verbose
09:30:12  <Alberth> "No protocol" is not in my openttd binary, must have been something else
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09:30:25  <Helion> well it runs with d3
09:30:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> then it should run without d3
09:31:10  <Helion> Will it be easier for me to play if I set the numer of towns and industrie to very low, terrain to very flat?
09:31:27  <Helion> I`m a beginner and it is a bit hard for me to play on the huge map
09:31:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> depends on what you're trying to do
09:31:51  <Helion> I`m trying to get the idea of the game :)
09:32:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> start with transporting coal ;)
09:32:23  <ccfreak2k> Strange game.
09:32:25  <Alberth> start with something small, eg 256x512 or 256x1024, with normal industries and normal towns, and flat land
09:32:29  <ccfreak2k> Seems the only winning move is not to play.
09:33:34  <Alberth> ccfreak2k: try to find the second best move :)
09:41:11  <Alberth> euhm, it is probably just me, but I've trying to find out where discussions about the Wiki take place. The Village Pump speaks of 'Talk' pages, and Users' pages and 'sign with 4 tilde characters'. Is there a meta-discussion Wiki page (a page that discusses how to do discussions)?
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09:42:04  <eekee> there should be a talk link at the top of each page if it's mediawiki
09:42:31  <ccfreak2k> Yep. Each page has a talk page.
09:44:59  <Alberth> There is a 'discussion' tab, and it looks like discussion, but no 4 tildes thingies there.
09:45:27  <Alberth> Also, suppose I put up an item there? Then what, how is something decided?
09:46:48  <Alberth> In the 'history' tab there are lots of red (ie non-existing) refs to 'Talk' pages
09:48:11  <Alberth> Or can I just start writing text, shuffling pages, etc?
09:49:04  <eekee> ya click on the Talk link for a page you want to comment on, red or not
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10:07:57  <Wolf01> http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/dragdrop_roadstops_13691.diff the drag&drop doesn't work, any suggestion?
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10:45:16  <Mchl> hello
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12:52:30  <Celestar> hm ... how does one use this libtimidity sound driver? :P
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13:01:35  <AmixE90> Hey. Just wonder why v0.6.1 vs nightly builds is so different?
13:01:49  <Celestar> different in what means?
13:01:59  <Celestar> the nightlies contain usually way more features
13:03:35  <frosch123> Hmm, is it documented behaviour, that feof() fails after fseek() ?
13:03:39  <AmixE90> MorphOS version of the game wont be supported because it doesnt close right, while nightly builds gets updated etc...
13:07:46  <Celestar> dunno anything about MorphOS
13:08:49  <Celestar> frosch123: "fails" in what way?
13:09:22  <Celestar> frosch123: fseek clears the EOF indicator
13:09:43  <Celestar> frosch123: that is documented
13:09:54  <frosch123> yes, that is what google also tells me.
13:10:13  <frosch123> But that is not very obvious for someone used to more decent programming languages :p
13:11:37  <AmixE90> Celestar: www.morphos-team.net
13:12:12  <Celestar> frosch123: I don't see the problem
13:12:23  <Celestar> AmixE90: sorry. I know about MorphOS, but not about the openttd port :D
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13:13:20  <fjb> Hello
13:13:38  <frosch123> Celestar:  I.e. the OTTD tar loader has a 'while (!feof(f))' with an 'fseek' at the end.
13:14:26  <frosch123> I guess it is pure luck that there is somewhere a 'continue' before the 'fseek' that prevents infinite execution
13:14:38  <Celestar> frosch123: where is that?
13:15:00  <frosch123> fileio.cpp::TarListAddFile
13:15:35  <frosch123> It also reads the next tar header from the file without checking whether data was available
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13:16:12  <fjb> I'm voting vor a second tram track type. Wuppertal is calling.
13:16:53  <Celestar> frosch123: interesting :D
13:17:10  <AmixE90> Ohh... Wuppertal got a tramline?
13:17:55  <frosch123> So I guess the result of fread() should be checked to be 512
13:18:06  <fjb> AmixE90: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38413
13:19:12  <frosch123> and the 'while (!feof(f))' could as well be replaced by 'for(;;)'
13:21:24  <Celestar> frosch123: I quite agree (=
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13:22:31  <AmixE90> Fjb: cooool
13:22:34  <Celestar> try it and see what happens
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13:32:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: "a tram of special kind" :p
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13:37:20  <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause3: yes. Its a metro rather
13:37:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm assuming these elevated vehicles will still stop if a road vehicle is in front of them...
13:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: no, juristically it's classified as a tram
13:37:45  <AmixE90> Its listed as metro on www.urbanrail.net
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13:40:10  <AmixE90> The thing in Wuppertal is a metro ;)
13:41:45  <jorisslob> Companies can have the same name now, right?
13:42:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> "Verkehrsrechtlich gesehen ist die Wuppertaler Schwebebahn eine Straßenbahn besonderer Bauart." [wikipedia]
13:45:53  <AmixE90> Well, thats not correct
13:46:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> says who?
13:47:22  <AmixE90> If it was a tram. It would have run at streetlevel. The wuppertal schwebebahn is totally seperated. Thats why its a metro.
13:47:29  <jorisslob> Well, nobody said it, but I am trying the advanced naming your company code from the wiki, and the SetCompany name doesn't seem to fail
13:47:38  <jorisslob> causing all my AIs to use the same name
13:48:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: where in the law does it state that a tram has to run on streets?
13:49:45  <Rubidium> or even at streetlevel
13:50:02  <AmixE90> Well. The wuppertalbahn isnt at the streetlevel at all. It runs like Paris and Chicago metro. Above the ground, though it is hanging.
13:50:27  <Rubidium> there are trams that don't run at streetlevel at all
13:50:40  <Rubidium> and the metro in Paris runs at places at streetlevel
13:50:42  <AmixE90> Rubidium: ?
13:50:43  <Mchl> Things not to do: put 'SVN revert' next to 'SVN commit' in TortoiseSVN context menu
13:51:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> german railway law has exactly two choices: "railway", meaning high speed and long distance between stops, and "tramway", meaning low speed and short distance between stops
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13:51:23  <Rubidium> AmixE90, from the dictionary: any of various vehicles: as a: a boxlike wagon running on rails (as in a mine), b: [...]
13:51:23  <AmixE90> Rubidium: oki. I didnt knew that
13:51:56  <Rubidium> and metro is just short for metropolitan railway
13:52:23  <jorisslob> Ah, nevermind... companies aren't getting the same name
13:52:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> and choosing between one or the other has implication on the amount of security you have to put into it
13:52:55  <Rubidium> so technically the wuppertal bahn might be a metro (assuming wuppertal is a metropolitan area), but it doesn't make it not a tram
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13:53:13  <AmixE90> No.. Metro is mostly underground, but can run above the ground aswell and at streetlevel. Wagons are bigger, platforms too etc
13:54:54  <AmixE90> Hehe, seems we sit with different definitions. You can call it a tram.. Its ok for me, but for me its a metro. Rather one of worlds oldest metro
13:55:05  <Eddi|zuHause3> AmixE90: obviously you have no idea what you are talking about
13:55:37  <Rubidium> the thing is: metro and tram aren't multual exclusive
13:56:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> "metro" is a short form of "metropolitan railway", meaning exactly what it says, "railway in a metropolitan [huge city] area"
13:56:31  <AmixE90> Yes
13:56:44  <AmixE90> And thats what Wuppertal-bahn is
13:57:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> that has absolutely nothing to do with wether it is above ground or underground...
13:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> and Wuppertal is not exactly the largest city around...
13:58:01  <AmixE90> H-bahn in Dortmund is a light-metro
13:58:15  <AmixE90> Or so called peoplemover
13:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> Dortmund is slightly bigger than Wuppertal :p
14:00:29  <AmixE90> So dont say that i dont know.. Bah. Here people asks how can a tram go underground as they are used to see no trams underground ;p
14:01:21  <Rubidium> those people have not enough knowledge of the world's implementations of trams
14:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> i've also seen the word "Metrotram" before
14:04:09  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13692 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix (r13674): loading PNG sprites could very quickly fill the sprite cache.
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14:16:03  <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause3: in france you find tram-train ;)
14:16:23  <glx> not many of them though
14:17:32  <AmixE90> In Strasbourg and Alicante I think
14:17:40  <AmixE90> Some other cities?
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14:18:03  <glx> near Bondy IIRC (or it is just planed)
14:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> since when is Alicante in france?
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14:18:42  <glx> good question indeed ;)
14:18:43  <AmixE90> In spain
14:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, could have been i missed something :p
14:19:03  <AmixE90> Well. He wrote in not many places
14:19:09  <hylje> porto
14:19:12  <AmixE90> And i replied where i know
14:20:20  <glx> but you were talking about France
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14:20:41  <glx> (I replied to  <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause3: in france you find tram-train ;) )
14:21:39  <AmixE90> Yeye
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14:21:46  <AmixE90> Its Saturday
14:21:51  <AmixE90> Come on.. Doh
14:21:56  <AmixE90> ;)
14:22:49  <AmixE90> France, spain, portugal.. All the same.. Just different languages ;)
14:23:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> USA, Israel, Afghanistan, South Korea... all the same, just different languages...
14:23:51  <AmixE90> Bah
14:24:04  <AmixE90> They are all outside of EU
14:24:13  <AmixE90> ;p
14:24:17  <Eddi|zuHause3> exactly, proves my point...
14:24:23  <Mchl> which makes them all the same
14:24:33  <Mchl> P
14:24:34  <Mchl> :P
14:24:40  <AmixE90> Yeye
14:26:22  <AmixE90> Trams, light-rail, peoplemover, metro, underground, streetcar, local train, tram-train, busstram, monorail
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14:37:51  <Mchl> subway
14:38:14  <AmixE90> http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm
14:39:09  <Mchl> quite current information about Warsaw too
14:39:14  <AmixE90> Wuppertal is under red dot ;p which means it is metro
14:40:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> "it's in the internet, it must be true!"
14:41:09  <AmixE90> Mchl: its quite nice
14:41:10  <hylje> monorail
14:42:00  <AmixE90> Yes. Wuppertal is more a monorail
14:42:18  <AmixE90> Bah my English
14:42:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> of course the Schwebebahn Wuppertal is a monorail
14:42:58  <AmixE90> A question. Is there plans porting openttd to Symbian mobiles?
14:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> but nowhere in the law it states that a tram has to have 2 rails
14:43:17  <AmixE90> But it is
14:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> well, technically the Schwebebahn has a secondary rail for electric transmission
14:45:31  <hylje> i'm a bit puzzled as to why top-suspended monorail is so rare
14:46:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> infrastructure costs are higher than conventional rail, i suppose
14:46:13  <AmixE90> Expensive
14:46:38  <AmixE90> No massproduction of rails for it etc
14:46:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> especially operation of switches is difficult
14:46:54  <AmixE90> I think
14:46:54  <hylje> i don't see it fundamentally very expensive, it's just not in such volume than conventional rail
14:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> so building up a network is complicated
14:47:17  <hylje> most tram networks get away with little switchwork
14:47:31  <hylje> but they are indeed needed
14:49:56  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: frosch * r13693 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix (r11106, r11117): Do not rely on .tar files always ending with a block of zeros.
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15:15:52  <Celestar> hm ..
15:16:05  <Celestar> the code doesn't compile with -DNO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
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15:46:17  <frosch123> Lakie, DaleStan: You might want to join http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2138 as I am pretty sure it also applies to TTDP.
15:46:41  <Lakie> Hmmm
15:46:44  * Lakie goes to read
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16:02:18  <Davelister> hello world
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19:28:56  <Sacro> hang on
19:29:00  <Sacro> is it WWOTTDGD
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19:30:05  <Prof_Frink> No, it's YMOTTDGD
19:30:34  <Noldo> ASDF
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19:37:43  <MorgyN> what would open trasport tychoon do, gawd damn?
19:38:03  <Sacro> MorgyN: English only please
19:38:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> something like that :p
19:38:21  <MorgyN> =P
19:38:48  <MorgyN> its english, just with bad spelling...
19:40:23  <Wolf01> bah, I don't want to continue my patches... too complicate, too many stupid errors I make, not much ideas, not much knowledge, not much help... 3, 2, 1, REVERT!
19:50:22  <planetmaker> Uh... wolf01 - bad day?
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19:50:43  <planetmaker> enjoy the game now on our wwottdgd server :)
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19:50:52  <Wolf01> like every saturday
19:52:36  <planetmaker> hm... every Saturday is bad? Nahh...
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19:54:07  * LA gets a present every Saturday... not :(
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20:01:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> saturdays are only bad when there's no doctor who :p
20:02:34  <Rubidium> which is about 3/4th of the saturdays then
20:02:40  <fjb> The doctor comes sundays.
20:02:56  <Rubidium> not the dubbed german version
20:03:22  * fjb doesn't have BBC.
20:03:39  <Prof_Frink> Extermineiren!
20:03:45  <fjb> :-P
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21:19:28  <Sacro> Why does OpenTTD have English (UK)
21:19:32  <Sacro> surely that is just English
21:20:51  <glx> to make it clear it's not English(US)
21:21:24  <ln> or Engrish(JP)
21:21:46  <Sacro> glx: why>#
21:21:57  <Sacro> if the americans complain then tell em to piss off
21:22:31  <Sacro> do you have "French (France)"
21:22:36  <Sacro> and "French (Canadian)"
21:22:49  <glx> there's only 1 French lang file
21:22:49  <Sacro> and "French (Allo Allo)"
21:23:10  <Mchl> there's also English (Original veh names)
21:25:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> we should have SÀchsisch and SchwÀbisch as languages :p
21:25:23  <ln> i'm having trouble choosing which french to choose as the one and only doesn't say if it's France or Canada or Suisse.
21:25:42  <ln> well, actually I've never run OpenTTD in french, but that's beside the point.
21:26:23  <Mchl> yeah... who uses translations anyway? :P
21:29:15  <ln> who said i don't use a translation?
21:31:17  * Mchl slaps himself
21:33:15  <ln> besides the original is full of incomprehensible things such as "Patch settings" and "TTDPatch-style non-stop handling".
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21:39:55  <Mchl> they're even more incomprehensible in polish
21:40:11  <Mchl> for whatever reason patches are translated as 'plugins'
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21:42:08  <Wolf01> 'night
21:42:12  <Mchl> night Wolf
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22:01:49  <ln> Mchl: well, is that any more wrong than "patches"?
22:03:19  <Mchl> a bit more
22:03:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> "plugin" is more what a grf is
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22:11:37  <dih> what's up with the nightlies?
22:18:03  <Rubidium> network trouble at the time the compile was scheduled, so svn update didn't do it's work
22:18:27  <Rubidium> so let's hope it does it's work tomorrow
22:18:49  <dih> ;-)
22:18:55  <dih> thanks for the info :-)
22:29:01  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13694 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Change: make it more explicit that you've opened the available train/ship/etc. list instead of the one where you can actually build vehicles by setting the appropriate title for the window.
22:29:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> i vote for removing the "build vehicle" button instead of greying it out
22:30:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13695 /trunk/src/mixer.cpp: -Fix [FS#2120]: in some cases the (sound) mixer could overflow causing artefacts in the sound.
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