Log for #openttd on 18th July 2008:
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00:13:37  *** Digitalfox [] has joined #openttd
00:15:24  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13723 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIIndustry::GetStockpiledCargo() (Yexo)
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01:00:17  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13724 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_industry.cpp:
01:00:19  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix r13723: in this modern world with all those checks and warnings GCC
01:00:19  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: can give when ever I not ask him to, it fails to see the simplest of all, 'if
01:00:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: (cargo_id == cargo_id)'.. makes you wonder, doesn't it? Well, such is life,
01:00:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: wondering wondering wandering .. Status Quo, Yeah! Oh yeah, what was I doing ...
01:00:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: ah, yes: don't compare one variable with itself, it is always true.. Obiwan by
01:00:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: Yexo. (Yexo)
01:04:33  <fmauNeko> beautiful commit summary :)
01:05:15  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13725 /branches/noai/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/ai/api/ai_industry.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix r13723: yexo ducks
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02:03:40  <TiberiusTeng> somebody with svn commit permissions here ?
02:03:54  <TiberiusTeng>
02:04:00  <TiberiusTeng> it makes OTTD left-channel only ;p
02:05:58  <TiberiusTeng> the patch changed buffer[1] to buffer[0], which I believe is a typo
02:07:22  <SmatZ> @openttd commit 13706
02:07:23  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Commit by frosch :: r13706 trunk/src/mixer.cpp (2008-07-15 17:13:50 UTC)
02:07:24  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: -Fix (r13695): Small typo.
02:07:42  <SmatZ> you are late, TiberiusTeng :)
02:08:02  <TiberiusTeng> ahh, that's great :P
02:08:27  <TiberiusTeng> just Ctrl+F "sound" on the changelog page so didn't notice that
02:12:02  <fmauNeko> good night §§
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02:58:09  <ArmEagle> so, did move too?
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07:01:21  <Noldo> morning
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07:04:44  <Forked> adsl sucks.. imagine it getting disconnected just because you disable your position on the DSLAM
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07:32:40  <Doorslammer|BRSet> Hi Forked :P
07:38:46  <Forked> hello!
07:41:55  <Doorslammer|BRSet> Thought you called me ;)
07:42:32  <Forked> I did?
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08:06:32  <Forked> oh, dorslammer - dslam. :)
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09:04:40  <Yorick> indstatrw.grf:22]ParamSet: GRM: Unable to allocate 6 sprites
09:08:34  <Yorick> I'd like the newnewgrf gui for 0.6
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09:14:30  <peter1138> ...
09:14:37  <peter1138> But no new features in 0.6
09:20:10  <peter1138> r13713... isn't that more like 'remove lots of (unneeded?) information' rather than 'possible crash' ?
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09:22:50  <Noldo> peter1138: rubidium was quite certain he could crash servers with just one udp packet
09:23:53  <peter1138> That's as maybe.
09:23:57  <peter1138> (svn r13713) -Fix: possible crash on creating a network packet.
09:24:09  <peter1138> (svn r13713) -Fix: possible crash on creating a network packet BY REMOVING LOTS UNNEEDED INFORMATION.
09:25:58  <peter1138> +OF
09:25:59  <peter1138> :p
09:27:33  <Celestar> the amount of micromanagement on a 1kx1k map with close to 300 trains is incredible
09:28:23  <Lachie> Devs!
09:28:29  * Lachie hugs peter1138 and/or Celestar
09:28:36  <Celestar> O_o
09:28:47  <Lachie> had a quick question lol
09:29:35  <Lachie> are either of you aware if the experimental AI in multiplayer switch is known for causing seemingly random desyncs in 0.6.0?
09:29:51  <Noldo> peter1138: :)
09:32:25  <Yorick> Lachie: switches are ttdp, and 0.6.2-RC1 is newest version
09:33:32  <Lachie> Yorick: I've been in the community for four years, don't treat me like a noob.
09:34:08  <Noldo> and by experimental AI you mean NoAI ?
09:34:12  <Yorick> no
09:34:17  <Yorick> the trolly AI
09:34:19  <Lachie> and as far as I'm aware 0.6.2*RC1* isn't a stable :P
09:34:24  <Yorick> 0.6.1 is
09:34:27  <Noldo> ah
09:34:37  <Lachie> Yorick: not according to synaptic
09:34:48  <Yorick> synaptic?
09:35:10  <Noldo> Synaptic is a graphical package management program for apt.
09:35:23  <Lachie> 0.6.0 is the newest version on the apt reposes.
09:35:37  <Yorick> "The latest stable version is 0.6.1, released on June 1st 2008. "
09:35:49  <Lachie> and I'm too damn lazy to manually install stuff, as you know.
09:35:51  <Lachie> mmm
09:35:52  <Lachie> bugger
09:35:57  <Lachie> I'll have to build that one then
09:36:26  <Noldo> which distro are you using?
09:36:30  <Lachie> ubuntu
09:36:42  <Noldo> because
09:37:14  <Noldo> and there is a deb in the downloads page
09:37:14  <Yorick> debian != ubuntu
09:37:14  <Lachie> how strange.
09:37:42  <Lachie> Yorick: exactly.
09:37:47  <Lachie> ubuntu == debian
09:37:53  <Lachie> more or less
09:38:33  <Lachie> well cheers for that one, Noldo
09:38:45  <Lachie> I'll get it installed accross the network
09:44:21  <Celestar> heh ... one million cargo units per year \o/
09:44:29  <Rubidium> peter1138: I can give you a rundown on what you have to do to crash a server
09:45:26  <peter1138> That's not the point.
09:45:28  <Celestar> axe.grab(); axe.apply(server); ?
09:45:34  <peter1138> :)
09:46:01  * Celestar classifies himself officially as "nerd"
09:46:15  <Rubidium> and the whole packet is (currently) unneeded, but I kept it so someone could make company stats of their servers fairly easily
09:46:15  <Celestar> 142 train stations
09:46:26  <Celestar> is there any way to count the number of towns?:P
09:47:31  <Rubidium> gdb ./openttd, run -g <savegame>, alt-0, print _total_town_count or something like that (see the town header)
09:48:56  <Rubidium> (it's _total_towns though)
09:49:18  <Celestar> heh :P
09:49:22  <Celestar> k
09:49:42  <Celestar> gotta recompile for that who :P
09:49:44  <Celestar> tho*
09:49:58  <Rubidium> or count by hand ;)
09:50:31  <Celestar> maybe the towns list should contain the total number, just like the trains list contains the total number
09:54:10  <Lachie> peter1138: you still want in on the Australian Set testing list?
09:55:02  <Celestar> man I want my ICE :P
09:55:21  <Lachie> xD
09:56:09  <Rubidium> but... but... they aren't running now either
09:56:10  <Celestar> I got 99 IC that need replacing 8)
09:56:28  <Celestar> Rubidium: they're running again, and only the ICE3 had .. problems
09:57:01  <Celestar> Rubidium: I'm not sure you can hit 3 million cargo units per year with passengers only on a 1k map
09:57:04  <Lachie> "problems"
09:57:19  <ln> is there going to be a maglev in Munich, or did they cancel it?
09:57:28  <Celestar> ln: cancelled
09:57:51  <ln> too bad
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09:57:58  <Lachie> just had the most awesome idea regarding the "engine pool" feature I heard about today
09:58:06  <Celestar> ln: cost overrun by 60% before even starting
09:59:12  <Lachie> having a 2000x2000 split into several islands, which could serve as different countries
09:59:13  <ln> Celestar: well, fortunately the existing rail connection is already there and operational.
09:59:32  <Celestar> ln: it is THERE, operational is not really the right word for a 50-minute trip
09:59:38  <Yorick> Lachie: unfortunatly, the base costs are modified global
09:59:41  <Yorick> ly
10:00:11  <Rubidium> Lachie: as none of them is Canada it's possible (with the before mentioned 'problem' of the global costs)
10:01:10  <Lachie> so, the locomotives/rolling stock which share an ID would have the same costs you mean?
10:01:25  <Rubidium> nope
10:01:31  * Lachie is confused
10:01:55  <Rubidium> all costs of a vehicle are from a GRF seen between 0 and 255, this is multiplied with a constant
10:02:06  <Lachie> that I am aware
10:02:10  <Rubidium> that constant is global, but can be changed by the NewGRF
10:02:15  * Lachie is a GRF coder
10:02:18  <Lachie> ahh
10:02:20  <Lachie> I get you
10:02:26  <Lachie> so the cost multiplier is global?
10:02:47  <Rubidium> yes
10:02:51  <Lachie> ah
10:02:53  <Lachie> fair enough
10:02:53  <Rubidium> so the last newgrf 'wins'
10:02:58  <Celestar> oh man. Station with 6 trunks coming in. it 0wns
10:03:21  <Lachie> Rubidium: that would screw things up a little.
10:03:36  <Yorick> "deleting dir"..."deleting files"..."error: can't delete files..files not found"...
10:04:29  <Yorick> so it can't delete the dir because it tries to find and delete the files it just deleted
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10:04:49  <Yorick> :-<
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10:11:41  <Yorick> is the opntitle.dat grf bug fixed?
10:12:16  <fmauNeko> plop
10:15:38  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13726 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_vehicle.cpp ai_vehicle.hpp ai_vehicle.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Add: AIVehicle::ReverseVehicle (Yexo)
10:15:50  <Lachie> hm...
10:15:55  <Lachie> weird
10:16:01  <Lachie> still not synchronising
10:16:56  <Lachie> how annoying.
10:17:06  <Noldo> what? where?
10:17:09  <Lachie> I never remember this amount of instability in LAN games before
10:18:16  <Lachie> could also be the GRFs I'm using I suppose
10:19:18  <Rubidium> I've never tested the 'new ai' in MP (or heard anybody about using it)
10:19:25  <Rubidium> so it could easily be just the AI
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10:19:38  <Lachie> turned it off, still got the desyncs also.
10:19:45  <Rubidium> what version?
10:19:49  <Lachie> 0.6.1
10:20:03  <Rubidium> do you have elrail disabled?
10:20:10  <Lachie> don't believe so
10:20:42  <Lachie> no
10:21:33  <Lachie> should I?
10:21:52  <Rubidium> no
10:21:56  <Lachie> hm...
10:22:15  <Lachie> shall I stick my config somewhere?
10:22:19  <Lachie> (upload)
10:22:34  <Rubidium> it is reproducable when you save the game and then reload it in the server?
10:24:05  <Lachie> wait a sec
10:24:35  <Lachie> hmmm
10:24:37  <Lachie> seems good so far
10:25:38  <Rubidium> I can't quickly find a reason why newai would desync though
10:25:39  <Lachie> no desync yet
10:25:45  <Lachie> mm
10:25:52  <Lachie> it was desyncing without it though
10:26:08  <Rubidium> yeah, but did you restart the game before that?
10:26:12  <Lachie> yes
10:26:38  <Rubidium> (restart as in save-load)
10:26:39  <Lachie> so, was this a known bug or something? random desyncs which resolved when you reloaded the game in-server?
10:26:55  <Rubidium> no
10:27:08  <Lachie> I didn't do the save-load with the AI on
10:27:11  <Lachie> shall I try that
10:27:12  <Rubidium> but for me to solve a desync I must be able to reproduce it
10:27:12  <Lachie> ?
10:27:29  <Lachie> Rubidium: it did happen in several different new games
10:27:43  <Lachie> let me try something
10:28:02  <Lachie> hmm
10:28:06  <Lachie> yeah, it's fine now.
10:28:07  <Lachie> weird
10:28:07  <Rubidium> just make sure that elrail is not disabled
10:28:24  <Rubidium> (as that does cause desyncs with a dedicated server)
10:28:30  <Lachie> hmm
10:28:35  <Lachie> it's not dedicated
10:29:07  <Lachie> thanks for the help ^^
10:29:12  <Lachie> I'll try starting with AI no, see what happens
10:29:15  <Lachie> *now
10:31:44  <Lachie> desync'd
10:31:49  <Lachie> *save-loads*
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10:33:36  <Lachie> alright, I'll leave that a while and see what happens
10:35:25  <Lachie> I'll see if it's still connected when I come back from a shower
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10:46:58  <Celestar> Rubidium: disabling elrails causes desyncs?
10:48:07  <Rubidium> in <= 0.6.1 yes
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10:50:11  <Celestar> ahh
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10:58:35  <ln> so... when can we expect to see international flights and trains and ships?
10:59:04  <hylje> when can we expect nations at all?
11:00:12  <ln> i see one right now.
11:00:19  <Noldo> where?
11:00:41  <ln> in openttd.
11:01:11  <Noldo> I see a group of independent town states with common currency
11:02:32  <ln> and a common language, which often defines a nation.
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11:08:21  <Celestar> :o just spent one billion on replacing vehicles :P
11:09:20  <hylje> one hundred trillion
11:09:34  <peter1138> One thousand million, eh?
11:10:00  * peter1138 wants one billion to mean one million million again... *grumble*
11:10:26  <Forked> it does in Norway .. we have "Milliard" as a htousand million .. and a thousand milliarder again is a billion
11:10:28  <Lachie> Rubidium: whatever the problem with the desyncs was... it fixes itself after a save and reload on the server.
11:10:54  <Rubidium> but with a new game it's almost instantaniously?
11:11:18  <Lachie> yeah
11:11:24  <Lachie> within thirty seconds or so
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11:11:34  <Lachie> Forked: Norway still uses Long-scale?
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11:12:07  <Rubidium> Lachie: can I then have the config + newgrfs you use to recreate the issue?
11:12:17  <Lachie> alright
11:12:26  <Rubidium> is there an endianness difference between the server and client?
11:12:35  <Lachie> endianness?
11:12:37  <Forked> Lachie: long-scale?
11:12:39  <Forked> :)
11:12:48  <Lachie> Forked: hang on
11:12:54  <Rubidium> Lachie: PPC vs x86
11:13:00  <Lachie>
11:13:00  <Forked> words I'm afraid to google .. betting results wont be sfw
11:13:11  <Lachie> Rubidium: nope
11:13:13  <Rubidium> something to do with the internals of the processor
11:13:25  <Lachie> both 32 bit intel processors I believe?
11:13:31  <peter1138> You'll need the random seed I guess.
11:13:33  <Lachie> so x86 lol
11:14:01  <peter1138> If pause on no clients is not enabled then anything can happen between starting and the first client connecting...
11:14:34  <peter1138> ^ Stating the obvious
11:15:35  <Lachie> peter1138: server is a player :P
11:15:46  <Lachie> where would I find the cfg under Ubuntu Linux?
11:16:19  <Lachie> Rubidium: but one client is a Dual Core
11:16:21  <Yexo> ~/.openttd/openttd.cfg
11:16:28  <Lachie> not that that should matter though i guess
11:16:37  <Lachie> cheers Yexo
11:18:35  <Lachie> Rubidium: the stuff is at
11:21:32  <Celestar> bah I hate network bugs :P
11:21:54  <peter1138> Network bugs?
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11:27:42  <Rubidium> Lachie: okay, got it locally reproduced too (so I can fix it)
11:28:33  <Lachie> alright
11:29:05  <Lachie> good to know I've found a possible bug for you :)
11:33:04  <SmatZ> fixed the problem Celestar mentioned - compilation with NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES
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11:37:53  <fjb> Hello
11:38:01  <dih> hi
11:38:13  <SmatZ> hello
11:46:08  <fjb> The second OpenTTD only grf is there. Now we need a 19tn century rail set...
11:46:57  <ln> and a 16th century ship set
11:47:35  <dih> what is that grf
11:49:13  <peter1138> "there" ?
11:50:03  <fjb> ln: Ofcourse.
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11:50:30  <fjb> peter1138:
11:51:14  <peter1138> I suppose the first OpenTTD only GRF was openttd[w|d].grf? :p
11:51:24  * Brianetta machine-guns everybody a good afternoon
11:51:49  <fjb> peter1138: Ok, then it is the third grf. :-P
11:51:59  <peter1138> What's the second GRF?
11:52:11  <peter1138> I'm afraid it's not something I ever kept track of.
11:52:13  <Brianetta> peter1138: You just mentioned two
11:52:32  <fjb> peter1138:
11:52:37  <peter1138> That counts as one, heh...
11:53:18  <Brianetta> Not compatible with anything but the SVN trunk... wow, that's bleeding edge
11:53:45  <fjb> Don't cut your finger...
11:55:36  <Brianetta> I've been out of the loop for a while.  IRC only, and then mostly not paying attention.  What's the general prediction on the future of shared tracks, and default-red signalling?  Use a scale of "it's being considered", "it might happen eventually" and "it won't happen"
11:57:41  <Lachie> default-red signalling?!
11:57:48  <Lachie> like, realistic signalling? :D
11:57:53  <Brianetta> I think PBS is a prerequisite for that
11:57:56  <Brianetta> but yes
11:58:23  <Brianetta> It was either peter1138 or Richk67 who wrote a patch for manual control of a train
11:58:44  <Brianetta> unfortunately, you never quite knew whether to stop for a green that might go red at any moment
11:59:44  <Vikthor> Brianetta: There is YAPP, which, I believe is default red, and that may eventually reach the trunk
12:00:21  <planetmaker> Brianetta: you might want to try out yapp on our dev server :)
12:04:46  *** eldeng [] has joined #openttd
12:05:15  <planetmaker> there's also a track sharing patch, but... it has way less dev attention than yapp :)
12:06:31  *** mucht_work [~Martin@] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
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12:07:24  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
12:07:34  <fjb> I had an idea how to solve the race condition in the dinstant join station patch. But I have to learn more C++ first.
12:11:57  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13727 /trunk/src/ (debug.cpp debug.h gamelog.cpp gamelog.h openttd.cpp): -Fix (r13375): compilation with NO_DEBUG_MESSAGES was broken
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12:16:15  <Ammler> race condition?
12:17:24  <fjb> Yes. That patch opens a window with the station to chose. But the stations can go away while the window is displayed.
12:20:47  <Rubidium> Lachie: desync solved
12:20:49  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13729 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp:
12:20:51  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Fix: assumption that non-north tiles of a house do not have the 1x1 building
12:20:51  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bit set was flawed with some NewGRFs. This caused the amount of houses to
12:20:53  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: differ, which causes the town radii to differ, which causes desyncs when towns
12:20:53  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: are expanded.
12:20:57  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13728 /trunk/src/debug.h: -Codechange: define DEBUG as an empty block so compiler warns us less
12:24:39  <Lachie> Rubidium: any idea why reloading would fix it though?
12:24:44  <Lachie> just as a matter of interest?
12:25:14  <Rubidium> both the server and client would've have the wrong number of houses and after that the number of houses doesn't change that often
12:25:21  <Lachie> ah
12:25:23  <Lachie> fair enough
12:25:34  <eldeng> hi. is it possible to change the player id of a player to 1 to make him the owner/master of the game?
12:25:35  <Rubidium> so joining quickly means nothing changed, joining after an hour could likely desync
12:26:29  <Lachie> right.
12:30:50  <Lachie> the fix will be in 0.6.2 then?
12:31:18  <Rubidium> yup
12:32:29  <Lachie> sweet
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12:44:27  <peter1138> Nice.
12:44:30  <Lachie> oooh
12:44:39  <Lachie> OTTD has autoslope now :D
12:44:40  <Lachie> fantastic :D
12:44:47  * Lachie has been out of this far too long.
12:44:49  <peter1138> That could've been the cause of many problems :)
12:45:30  <hylje> autoslope?
12:45:31  * peter1138 is going to go look at new offices later today.
12:45:44  <peter1138> I'm not quite sure why I've been asked to look, being a mere techie.
12:46:00  <peter1138> hylje, TTDPatch's name for being able to alter foundations.
12:46:18  <hylje> obviously they want techie-friendly offices
12:46:32  <hylje> (or are simply incompetent enough to trust techies)
12:46:38  <planetmaker> hehe. Techies are much better exploited if they feel happy :)
12:46:56  <peter1138> Well, the building was custom built a few years ago as combined datacentre and offices.
12:47:20  <peter1138> planetmaker, well it's just the MD and me going.
12:47:59  * planetmaker wonders what MD means... - but then peter1138: you feel happy and can be put to more work :)
12:48:11  <peter1138> Managing Director
12:48:11  <hylje> work work
12:48:17  <planetmaker> aye thx
12:49:03  <planetmaker> give people the feeling that they have a say in what's going on... and they're happy what they're doing :)
12:49:30  <peter1138> Haha
12:49:32  <planetmaker> I know it works for me :P
12:49:45  <peter1138> Possibly something to do with the company only having eight employees...
12:49:53  <planetmaker> he, right :)
12:50:57  <planetmaker> so you're in an expanding company :)
12:51:05  <hylje> enterprise
12:53:09  <planetmaker> anyway, with 8 people, every person counts :)
12:54:53  * Brianetta is reading the YAPP thread
12:55:02  <Brianetta> I'm hot for those signals
12:55:07  <Lachie> have you guys ever considering allowing dragging of the diagonal rails?
12:55:41  <glx> like autorail ?
12:55:44  <hylje> it's allowed?
12:56:09  <peter1138> Yeah, use 'autorail'
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12:57:59  <Ammler> Brianetta: YAPP just rocks.
12:58:24  <Ammler> he made a really good penalty system.
13:00:08  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
13:00:36  <dih> Ammler: has it improved since the last openttdcoop test?
13:00:43  <dih> hello Sacro
13:00:55  <Sacro> hey diuh
13:00:56  <Sacro> err
13:00:57  <Sacro> dih
13:01:25  <Lachie> autorail can get a little messy
13:02:10  <Ammler> dih: there wasn't need for that :-)
13:02:22  <Ammler> "our" asserts are all gone
13:02:52  <Ammler> just the unneeded "waiting for path" is still there...
13:03:43  <Ammler> <-- do not understand the answer of michi_cc
13:04:00  <Ammler> why isn't that solveable?
13:05:41  <planetmaker> Didn't understand it either. Maybe ask :)
13:06:29  <Celestar> Brianetta: I'm using them currently
13:06:35  <Celestar> Brianetta: they ROCK
13:06:53  <Celestar> thing is (as I predicted about a year ago): Presignals are now completely useless :P
13:06:54  <Brianetta> (-:
13:07:36  <planetmaker> [15:06]	<Celestar>	thing is (as I predicted about a year ago): Presignals are now completely useless :P <--- I beg to disagree :)
13:07:46  <Celestar> planetmaker: well you may :P
13:07:50  <planetmaker> How could you build a nand gate without? :)
13:08:19  <Celestar> wth is a nand gate and what do you need it for?
13:08:23  <hylje> programming
13:08:32  <planetmaker> advanced logic functions :)
13:08:57  <Celestar> I know that.
13:09:03  <Celestar> but what's that to do with signals
13:09:59  <planetmaker> and the thread mentioned there
13:10:06  <fjb> Presignals are now completely useless beside esoteric uses.
13:10:25  <planetmaker> --> building electronic circuits using OpenTTD :P
13:11:24  <hylje> try submitting openttd logic gates to esolangs
13:11:25  <planetmaker> so as long as there are no programmable signals, you can help yourself by using quite large logic circuits this way :)
13:11:54  <planetmaker> hylje: wth is esolangs ?
13:11:54  <Lachie> do we have route restrictions or something?
13:11:58  <Celestar> Brianetta: well, you can now build an 8-platform bi-directional stations without a problem
13:12:13  <hylje> planetmaker: a repository of silly ("esoteric") languages
13:12:20  <hylje>
13:12:21  <planetmaker> hehe :)
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13:15:01  <planetmaker> Celestar: another application is still priorities... - you cannot build them using YAPP...
13:16:27  <Ammler> presignals can't be used with PBS signals together, but aren't useless.
13:16:48  <Ammler> or how do you make traditional SL-ML joiners?
13:17:09  <planetmaker> Ammler: I guess he doesn't build that way... :)
13:17:14  <peter1138> They're all flawed concepts, IMHO.
13:17:22  <Celestar> Brianetta:
13:17:31  <Celestar> SLML joiners?!
13:17:39  <hylje> nice level crossing
13:17:41  <hylje> s
13:17:54  <planetmaker> [15:17]	<peter1138>	They're all flawed concepts, IMHO. <-- referring to what statement?
13:18:13  <Ammler> Celestar: that looks like our YAPP coal drop
13:18:19  <planetmaker> Celestar: SL = side line, ML: main line
13:18:31  <Celestar> planetmaker: I don't join lines outside of stations
13:18:32  <Ammler> Celestar: do you have 8.2 installed?
13:18:36  <peter1138> Priorities and joiners...
13:18:44  <Celestar> Ammler: it'S the diff from about 6 days ago...
13:18:57  <Celestar> I quite agree with peter1138 on that one :D
13:19:15  <planetmaker> :) They ensure a fluent network with max. capacity.
13:19:20  <Ammler> we have a yapp server at
13:19:44  <glx> Celestar: you have some bus killer places ;)
13:20:49  <Celestar> glx: no.
13:20:52  <peter1138> Yeah, we need better foundations, to allow the road to be raised in some places, to allow bridges.
13:21:02  <Celestar> glx: the crossing close as soon as the track is reserved by yapp
13:21:10  <Celestar> which is ages ahead of the train
13:21:29  <glx> ha right
13:21:38  <glx> nice yapp feature
13:21:44  <peter1138> Damn, I need a Windows build of YAPP, to play right now :p
13:21:55  *** dlunch [~dlunch@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:22:00  <glx> peter1138: I can make one if you want ;)
13:22:04  <peter1138> :D
13:22:25  <planetmaker> <--- for you, peter1138 :)
13:22:54  <Brianetta> Celestar: That's cool.  Is it just me, or do your level crossing gates turn to lights when trains pass?
13:22:55  <glx> planetmaker: There is no binary package for OS win32.
13:23:10  <Celestar> Brianetta: dunno. haven'T checked (using TTRS3)
13:23:19  <planetmaker> :P bugger... :)
13:23:41  <Brianetta> Oh, it's just me - there's lights *and* gates.
13:23:59  <eldeng> is it possible to change the company-id of a player to make him the default player?
13:24:46  <peter1138> No.
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13:25:19  <eldeng> as i suspected.. ok, thanks
13:26:03  <Ammler> planetmaker: I made no bins :P
13:26:21  <planetmaker> :(
13:26:27  <Ammler> I didn't upload my linbin, either.
13:26:34  <Ammler> do I need to?
13:26:40  * glx is svn up -r 13680
13:26:42  <fjb> That level crossings with lights and gates are from TTRS.
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13:27:54  <Ammler> Celestar: congratulations, you read the readme of dbset :-)
13:28:10  <Celestar> Ammler: What do you mean?
13:28:20  <Ammler> most have default roads on rail crossing with dbset and ttrs
13:28:37  <glx> now fixing conflicts after svn up :)
13:28:57  <Celestar> Ammler: "load dbset before ttrs?"
13:29:12  <Ammler> oh, that would possible too :-)
13:29:21  <Ammler> so you had just luck :P
13:29:45  <Celestar> Brianetta:
13:30:01  <Celestar> Ammler: it's been a bit since I read that readme
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13:30:29  <Brianetta> The possibilities for single-track are revealing themselves in my mind
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13:32:19  <Ammler> Celestar: dbset has a bitswitch to disable the crossovers.
13:32:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> single track has a few blocking issues unless you use 1-way-signals on the sidings
13:32:30  <Ammler> (if you would load dbset after ttrs)
13:33:17  <Celestar> I *still* manage to crash trains with YAPP
13:33:35  <Rubidium> that is easy to do
13:33:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> i haven't had a crash in ages
13:33:55  <planetmaker> I still manage to crash trains even without yapp :)
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13:34:00  <Ammler> Celestar: similar station:
13:37:11  <Celestar> WTH?
13:37:22  <Celestar> Error: NOT_REACHED triggered at line 954 of /nfs/home/fischer/coding/openttd/trunk/src/strings.cpp
13:37:30  <glx>
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13:38:14  <Rubidium> Celestar: did you have a vehicle window (any) opened at the time?
13:38:34  <Celestar> Aye
13:38:53  <Rubidium> and one of the vehicles went into a depot for autore(new|place)
13:39:05  <Celestar> Rubidium: that is possible
13:39:08  <Celestar> why?
13:39:25  <Rubidium> sounds a hell of a lot like
13:40:07  <glx> it's YABB ;)
13:40:20  <Celestar> YAAB?
13:40:35  <Rubidium> Celestar: that too
13:40:38  <Celestar> Rubidium: sounds like that
13:40:41  <Eddi|zuHause2>Ìnster%20Transport,%207.%20MÀr%201930.png
13:40:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: i kinda fail to see how that is "similar" :p
13:41:07  <Ammler> :-D
13:41:28  <Ammler> not to the terminus
13:41:35  <Forked> Eddi|zuHause2: that didn't open here :\  The requested URL /~krause/Klein ElsmÌnster Transport, 7. MÀr 1930.png was not found on this server.
13:41:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... umlaut trouble i assume...
13:41:58  <Rubidium> works here
13:42:06  <Ammler> Forked: enable utf-8
13:42:13  <Forked> bah
13:42:15  <Forked> wtf-8
13:42:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> or disable it ;)
13:43:04  <ln> or give proper urls
13:44:08  <Ammler> Celestar:
13:44:34  <Ammler> hmm, aren't there also the original depots available for longer versions?
13:44:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: they look ugly...
13:45:12  <ln> they certainly do
13:45:14  <Celestar> Rubidium: trying with debug symbols
13:45:19  <Celestar> Rubidium: and fixing it :S
13:45:35  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: agree, check my line after :-P
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13:46:06  <hylje> station-like depots
13:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> turntables and large engine sheds!
13:46:38  <Ammler> the amazing canset of course, which else :-)
13:46:39  <Celestar> I should try the OpenGL blitter
13:47:02  <Ammler> maybe opengfx
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13:47:06  <Celestar> whether it really speeds things up
13:47:25  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause2: we don't use umlauts, spaces or similar crap in URLs :P
13:47:50  <fjb> You can simulate large sheds...
13:47:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... i _could_ have renamed the file
13:47:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> but i was lazy ;)
13:48:20  <Lachie> also, are the devs aware that 0.6.1 is not on the ubuntu respositories?
13:48:39  <hylje> yes
13:48:43  <glx> Lachie: not our job
13:48:48  <Lachie> alright
13:48:57  <Lachie> I'm not familiar with how you get in on there, so just checking
13:48:57  <Ammler> fjb: ah, that is a new depot, isn't?
13:48:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: they look much better... which grf is that?
13:49:28  <fjb>
13:49:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> the red road bridge looks kinda weird
13:50:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe it's too bright or something...
13:50:20  <fjb> The truck drivers are sometimes drunken. So we painted the bridges red.
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13:53:36  <peter1138> Hmm
13:53:59  <fjb> But the set has some really nice brodges:
13:54:38  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: you need :)
13:58:11  <fjb> Yes. I know. The problem are also two diferent track types on the same tile.
14:06:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: are those opengfx grfs? they look very dark
14:07:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> i mean the rails, landscape, farm
14:07:40  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: if you feel depressed when looking at them, then likely yes
14:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't really like TTRS buildings either
14:08:55  <fjb> Yes OpenGFX.
14:08:58  <Ammler> bridges are TBRS
14:09:20  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Make better buildings. I will use them.
14:09:25  <Ammler> or are they used in opengfx too?
14:09:39  <fjb> The bridges are TBRS.
14:09:44  <Ammler> fjb: did you try newbuildings from opengfx?
14:09:50  <fjb> I love acronyms.
14:10:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> MB once announced a building set... but all he ever does is teasers :p
14:10:15  <fjb> Ammler: I didn't try them yet. Thought they are not ready.
14:11:07  <fjb> MB announced much. A building set. A new version of the newships, a new version of DBset XL, a new version of newstations...
14:11:52  <peter1138> I don't know if he announced them as such.
14:11:56  <fjb> I guess real life cought and never released him.
14:12:05  <peter1138> More, just posted sneak previews...
14:13:13  <fjb> But there are more and more artists working on grfs. And that is great.
14:15:34  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%207.%20Maer%201930#1.png
14:15:54  <eldeng> not found
14:16:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm, it's the #
14:16:51  <Ammler> "Diese Seite ist leer" <-- lies :P
14:17:05  <ArmEagle> that BuildOTTD thingy is handy. Though you still have to do stuff manually I like it!
14:17:33  <ArmEagle> without much fuzz I could patch both yapp and 32bpp-zoom
14:18:43  <Ammler>
14:19:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> try,%207.%20Maer%201930-1.png now
14:19:38  <eldeng> now it works :)
14:20:42  <glx> Eddi|zuHause2: station needs more trains ;)
14:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> it has, just a slow day ;)
14:21:20  <fjb> Ammler: Looks good. Does every building have a replacement yet?
14:24:12  <Ammler> fjb: no
14:25:42  <Ammler> but they have also snow support.
14:25:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> i need diagonal bridges ;)
14:26:18  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: tunnel
14:26:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> there are no diagonal tunnels either
14:27:38  <Ammler> you could tunnel the tracks below and then make diagonal tracks which should be a bridge :-)
14:28:24  <Ammler> but I see the part, you would like to use diagonal bridge
14:30:08  <Ammler> [15:53] <fjb> But the set has some really nice brodges: <-- the RV jam looks like a road train
14:30:43  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%207.%20Maer%201930-2.png
14:30:58  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: noticed that, too ;)
14:31:14  <Ammler> fjb: that is 4LV?
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14:32:40  <ArmEagle> yapp ftw, ...and then two trains crashed :)
14:34:24  <peter1138> You did it wrong.
14:35:01  <Rubidium> ArmEagle: your construction methods are soo... uhm... 1900
14:35:05  <ArmEagle> i guess.. was playing around with it on a running network
14:35:38  <Rubidium> currently they stop all train traffic when they are playing with the signals
14:35:58  <ArmEagle> yeah, I can't figure out why they do that these days! :)
14:36:54  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%207.%20Maer%201930-3.png
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14:40:34  <ln> what's faster than  x = abs(y)?
14:41:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> x=y
14:41:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> maybe you need to be more precise about the requirements ;)
14:41:34  <ArmEagle> :)
14:41:43  <planetmaker> lol
14:42:07  <ln> i did try x=y too, but unfortunately y really is negative sometimes.
14:42:23  <ArmEagle> I'd set the pre-condition that y is positive :)
14:43:18  <planetmaker> x=y>0
14:43:30  <planetmaker> works in the language I programm in :P
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14:43:40  <SmatZ> what language is it?
14:43:48  <planetmaker> IDL
14:44:16  <planetmaker> or RSI-IDL
14:44:22  <Ammler> <-- is that over?
14:44:23  <ln> so what i want is, a quicker way to calculate abs(y). it doesn't matter if the result is off by one to either direction.
14:44:55  <ArmEagle> How is abs slow then though?
14:45:36  <ln> it's a lot slower than x=y.
14:45:45  <ArmEagle> yeah, duh.
14:46:03  <ln> hmm, perhaps i could try a table approach.
14:46:38  <Rubidium> ln:
14:46:40  <ArmEagle> though.. it only has to do a compare to 0, then change the sign, or substract it from 0. How slow can that be? (Or am I missing something here)?
14:47:54  <ln> Rubidium: thanks
14:50:08  <SmatZ> Patented variation:
14:50:10  <SmatZ> r = (v ^ mask) - mask;
14:50:17  <SmatZ> unbelievable, this can be patented?
14:50:28  <Rubidium> SmatZ: *everything* can be patented
14:50:35  <Rubidium> you can even patent the wheel
14:50:47  <Prof_Frink> As some crazy aussie did
14:51:16  <Rubidium> though the patent is worthless because of prior art
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14:52:07  <SmatZ> that's sad
14:52:14  <dih> MS have a patent on ctrl+z for undo
14:52:22  <SmatZ> I thought mathematics algorithms can't be patented
14:53:00  <Rubidium> if software can be patented, then mathematics can too
14:53:16  <Rubidium> cause software is just basically applied mathematics
14:53:33  <SmatZ> that's my argument against software patents
14:53:51  <SmatZ> but maybe my expectation that math algorithms can't be patented is wrong
14:54:29  <SmatZ> anyway, that URL goes to my Bookmarks ;)
14:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> <SmatZ> unbelievable, this can be patented? <- the text below states that the patent is most likely invalid
14:56:23  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause2: good - my bad
14:56:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> the sad thing is, EU is again discussing about software patents :(
14:57:00  <Rubidium> patents just lost *all* their value the last tens of years
14:57:11  <SmatZ> why do you think so?
14:58:13  <Rubidium> companies are 'forcing' people to make patents of all their ideas, so when they have an idea that another company already patented you can swap some (worthless) patents and be happy
14:58:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> patents are useful [and designed for] all physical objects that you can sell as black boxes
14:58:40  <Rubidium> this basically makes it impossible for small companies to develop something because all basic things will be covered by patents
14:58:56  <Gekz> fuck patents.
14:58:57  <Gekz> >_>
14:59:41  <Rubidium> and what was the intention of patents... that small companies could invest in something fairly safely, no it is just used to sue them out of the market
14:59:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> patents just don't work in a society that does not exchange physical objects anymore
15:00:24  <Rubidium> even with physical objects it starts to become pointless
15:00:56  <Rubidium> seriously... the idea to authenticate yourself using a pin or fingerprint at a printer is covered by dozens of patents
15:01:40  <Rubidium> so if you want to develop a networkprinter you are forced to buy a lot of licenses from your (bigger) competitors
15:01:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> the innovation level of patents must be very high, otherwise patents are useless
15:02:08  <Rubidium> there are even companies entirely living on making patents and getting money from them
15:02:26  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause2: and that's exactly what it lost lately
15:02:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> that by itself is not a real problem ;)
15:04:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> there is nothing wrong with an "intelligence company" patenting an idea, maybe even providing a prototype, and then licensing the patent to a company that can actually do mass production
15:04:57  <fjb> Ammler: Yes, that is LV4. The vehicles are way to big.
15:05:46  <Ammler> but they look like vehicles, the rvs from generic set looks like ships
15:05:49  <Eddi|zuHause2> that is a known fact about LV :p
15:05:58  *** elmex [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:06:09  <Ammler> no weehls
15:06:29  <Ammler> <<h
15:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> didn't pikka once have a road vehicle set??
15:06:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> -?
15:06:44  <fjb> The vehicles from the generic set are looking better in every relaese, so there is hope. And the new generic set starts 1700.
15:06:44  <ccfreak2k> Pikkachu.
15:06:46  <Ammler> HOVS
15:06:53  <Rubidium> patenting a real ground breaking idea maybe, but the eolas patent... patenting that you can add a reference to some object in html
15:07:41  <Ammler> also the narv (or how is it called) is promising
15:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> yes, but how do you want to measure an innovation level?
15:07:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: is that released?
15:08:05  <Ammler> a testversion afaik
15:08:14  <fjb> The german road vehicle sets also look promising. But they have nobody who makes the trucks.
15:08:20  <Ammler> only looked at screens :-)
15:09:35  * fjb hates software patents.
15:09:47  <Ammler> isn't pikka the coder of the narv set?
15:09:50  <ccfreak2k> Eddi|zuHause2, the USPO takes care of that.
15:10:15  <Eddi|zuHause2> ccfreak2k: obviously not effective.
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15:10:48  <Rubidium> ccfreak2k: takes care of innovation level?
15:11:06  <ccfreak2k> Rubidium, they determine whether or not your idea allows for a patent.
15:11:22  <Rubidium> not really
15:11:41  <ccfreak2k> Oh yeah, that's how I got my patent on breathing.
15:11:48  <ccfreak2k> Wait, no it's not.
15:12:01  <Rubidium> whether your patent is worth something is determined in court
15:12:11  <ccfreak2k> There you go then/
15:12:12  <Rubidium> again I think of the eolas patent
15:12:16  <ccfreak2k> The system works.
15:12:24  <Rubidium> ccfreak2k: no, it does not
15:12:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> ccfreak2k: no, it doesn'T
15:12:32  <Rubidium> it's basic terrorism
15:12:56  <hylje> patent trolling
15:13:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> ccfreak2k: ever heard of the term "patent troll"?
15:13:04  <Rubidium> oh, company X has a patent of something I use, might be a worthless patent, but I'll just pay them to not get sued
15:13:28  <ccfreak2k> Whatever you say. I'll leave you two to jerk each other off.
15:14:21  <Doorslammer|online> I again...
15:14:27  <Doorslammer|online> ...have joined at the wrong moment
15:14:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> even the EU people that are for software patents realise that he current american system is worthless
15:16:13  *** Doorslammer|Site [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:25:58  <fjb> Can somebody draw this?
15:26:16  <Sacro> fjb: that's a long url
15:26:18  <Sacro> might take some time
15:26:37  <fjb> Yes, sorry, didn't find a shorter one.
15:28:17  <Prof_Frink> Sacro:
15:28:31  <Sacro> that sounds vulgar
15:28:40  <Sacro> damp flok eh
15:28:52  <hylje>
15:29:05  <hylje> sorry, i think it didn't come out in whole
15:30:01  <SmatZ> :-D
15:30:07  <fjb> I try to find a shortcut.
15:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink already posted one
15:31:20  <Sacro> hylje: you should tinyurl that
15:31:35  <fjb>
15:31:36  <hylje> i considered hugeurling the tinyurl
15:31:51  <hylje> but that's perverse
15:34:52  <fjb> Or something like this:
15:35:37  <fjb> Wikipeadia has the stats of many ancient lokomotives, but there are almost no pictures.
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15:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> i noticed that, tooo
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15:43:22  <AmixE90> Hey
15:43:37  <AmixE90> Love trams in openttd :)
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15:48:26  <KingJ> Good capacity, slow speed
15:52:36  <AmixE90> Great for passengers
15:53:11  <AmixE90> My city,
15:53:34  <Sacro> morphos?
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15:55:25  <Digitalfox> peter1138 have you seen the new GRF Road set of Zephrys using the engine pool? Pretty awesome =0
15:57:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> i hate the default tram tracks
15:58:30  <Digitalfox> have you tried zephrys new set Eddi|zuHause2 ?
15:58:41  <Digitalfox> * Zephyris
15:58:49  <AmixE90> Sacro: www,
15:58:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> no.
15:59:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm on strike ;)
15:59:56  <Digitalfox> lol Eddi
16:02:56  <Ammler> Digitalfox: do they have wheels?
16:03:42  *** Yexo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
16:04:00  *** Yexo [] has joined #openttd
16:04:33  <Digitalfox> Ammler wheels? There's horses =0
16:06:40  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
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16:12:47  <Ammler> omg, are those horses nice!
16:18:30  <AmixE90> Eddi|zuHause2: what tram tracks do you recommend?
16:18:42  <AmixE90> Which?
16:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> any other should do ;)
16:19:28  <AmixE90> Does trams make cities grow?
16:19:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> like any other transport
16:19:47  <AmixE90> Oki
16:20:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> the main critics point about the tram tracks is the amount of pylons it places
16:20:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> all track sets i know solve that
16:20:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> then it's basically only about what gauge you want ;)
16:21:36  <AmixE90> I wish there was LTR or metro available... With stations underground and leveled
16:24:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> provide a patch ;)
16:27:09  <AmixE90> :)
16:27:44  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13730 /trunk/src/ (43 files in 2 dirs): -Fix: make a copy of the names for news messages about the deletion of companies as the removal of a company could lead to wrong names in the news messages.
16:39:08  *** Zeal [] has joined #openttd
16:40:41  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13731 /trunk/src/ (38 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: make a pool of the array of players.
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16:57:42  <peter1138> Digitalfox, no, I haven't.
17:07:02  <Digitalfox> peter1138 you should try it :)
17:12:34  <peter1138> I might, I've just downloaded a YAPP build...
17:12:38  <peter1138> (Thanks glx)
17:12:56  <glx> np :)
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17:16:54  <peter1138> I've not played with ISR 0.7 yet, either.
17:16:57  <Wolf01> hello
17:18:30  <peter1138> Hey, millions of horse-drawn carriages...
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17:24:05  <Ammler> they are so cute!
17:25:22  <ccfreak2k> "Real programmers don't write in BASIC.  Actually, no programmers write
17:25:22  <ccfreak2k> in BASIC after reaching puberty."
17:25:25  <Digitalfox> peter1138 you couldn't resist lol
17:26:41  <Digitalfox> Blizzard support is amazing, they still support games released 12 years ago.. =0
17:27:04  <glx> they have enough money for that ;)
17:27:12  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:27:12  *** ProfFrink is now known as Prof_Frink
17:27:43  <Digitalfox> glx, yes true, but nonetheless they could just not care like many game company's do :)
17:28:28  <ccfreak2k> I was suprised even to see a patch for Warcraft III recently.
17:29:04  <glx> btw if they support them, it means they still sell them
17:29:17  <Digitalfox> I wonder.. Why don't games company remake some of there popular games? An example done is Tomb Raider, but heard anything about any game remake..
17:29:31  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
17:29:40  <Digitalfox> glx, for example Warcraft 2 they don't sell it anymore and still support it :)
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17:29:44  <joachim> glx: if companies have "enough money", they truly are great
17:29:50  <joachim> not many of those... :)
17:30:26  * peter1138 needs to raise £1.2 million
17:30:50  <Rubidium> ALT-1
17:31:01  <peter1138> I'll try it.
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17:31:10  <Ammler> Digitalfox: I have the extension package for wc2, but no original anymore...
17:31:13  <Digitalfox> peter1138 you do? Play on euro millions you still have 30 minutes before it closes =0
17:31:21  <glx> peter1138: it's not a debug build
17:31:35  <Digitalfox> Ammler I'm getting war2 Blattle Net :)
17:31:42  <peter1138> Hmm, could do.
17:31:49  <peter1138> And I do actually mean in real life :P
17:32:35  <Digitalfox> By the way, I have to go play on euro millions before it closes 20M€ of prize.. bye for now..
17:32:59  <Digitalfox> I'm telling peter to do it and forgot myself :(
17:36:02  <peter1138> Hmm, can I play online...
17:36:37  <peter1138> Oh, I can... Haha
17:37:17  <Yorick> Yorick@YORICK-LAPTOP /home/ottdsrc/mega2/projects
17:37:19  <Yorick> $ ./generate
17:37:20  <Yorick> sh: ./generate: No such file or directory
17:37:22  <Yorick> :(
17:38:10  <glx> strange
17:38:22  <Yorick> also sh generate gives me nothing
17:38:35  <glx> on windows?
17:38:38  <Yorick> mingw
17:38:47  <glx> generate.vbs is faster
17:38:53  <Yorick> and it works
17:39:10  <Yorick> but that sh script should work with sh
17:39:25  <Rubidium> but mings has no sh
17:39:28  <Rubidium> it has only bash
17:39:43  <glx> no it has no bash and sh is bash
17:40:02  <Yorick> sh: bash: command not found
17:40:04  <glx> Yorick: both works for me
17:40:15  <Yorick> $ sh --version
17:40:16  <Yorick> GNU bash, version 2.04.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys)
17:40:32  <Yorick> glx: hmm...possibly a vista issue
17:40:33  <glx> GNU bash, version 3.1.0(1)-release (i686-pc-msys)
17:42:35  <Yorick> I'm getting a clean version of the openttd chat-commands
17:42:38  <Rubidium> oh vista... that voids the support
17:42:55  <glx> just use the vbs on windows anyway
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18:15:13  <Yorick> /src/network/../core/enum_type.hpp:88: error: ISO C++ forbids declaration of `FORCEINLINE' with no type
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18:23:32  <Rubidium> Yorick: what did you change now?
18:24:10  <Yorick> I added an empty h file to the source.list and included it somewhere
18:24:50  <Yorick> src/network/../openttd.h:19: error: `byte' does not name a type
18:25:07  <Rubidium> include stdafx.h first in all .cpp files
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18:25:32  <Yorick> it's a h file
18:26:15  <Rubidium> well... somewhere it includes a header without including stdafx.h first
18:26:34  * Yorick checks...ah...there...fixed :)
18:26:38  <Yorick> thank you
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18:27:24  <Yorick> you cleared me some errors
18:29:58  <Yorick> src/network/network_internal.h:116: error: `VARDEF' does not name a type
18:31:01  <Rubidium> VARDEF is *evil*
18:31:10  <Rubidium> do not use it
18:31:21  <Yorick> I DONT
18:31:33  <Rubidium> because it guarantees your patch to be not working in the future
18:32:05  <Yorick> network_internal.h:116 is an empty line
18:33:06  <Rubidium> if you have that error it isn't
18:33:12  <Rubidium> at least not the one it is using
18:33:25  <Yorick> hmm
18:33:36  <Yorick> text editors with tabs that do not show paths
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18:33:38  <Yorick> evil
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18:34:29  <Yorick> the 0.6 network_internal.h is full of VARDEF
18:34:59  <Rubidium> the trunk one isn't
18:35:06  <Yorick> true
18:35:14  <Yorick> but I'm working on 0.6
18:35:59  <Yorick> it appears to want openttd.h for its network_internal purposes
18:46:35  * TiberiusTeng starts trying to make the cargo-filtering widget
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18:58:20  <Ammler> TiberiusTeng: did you see my post at newgrf gui?
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19:01:02  <TiberiusTeng> yes, I've read it. I'll try to incorporate the economy thing later :)
19:01:43  *** Yexo [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:01:47  <Brianetta>
19:01:49  <Brianetta> hee hee
19:01:58  *** Yexo [] has joined #openttd
19:03:23  <fjb> :-)
19:03:44  <TiberiusTeng> about trunk inclusion proposal ...
19:03:53  <TiberiusTeng> I think they'll include it when they think it's okay :P
19:04:23  <TiberiusTeng> really don't have time begging for it or handle some quick-fixing response
19:05:48  <Yorick> Ammler: that patch resets inflation too
19:06:03  <Ammler> yes, of course
19:06:10  <Ammler> that is the problem
19:06:27  <Ammler> no, it is not the problem, just you need to know it :-)
19:06:41  <TiberiusTeng> so we can cheat by opening the NewGRF window, then apply the new settings? :P
19:06:41  <Yorick> possibly only do it if inflation is disabled
19:06:58  <Yorick> T: quite
19:07:06  <Ammler> isn't there a red msg box anyway?
19:07:13  <Ammler> if you change grfs...
19:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> "just you need to know it" <- that is not an argument
19:07:47  <Yorick> yes...but translated
19:08:11  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: OTTD official has no GRF change support
19:08:41  <Ammler> so if you change that, you "fuck up" the settings anyway, so do you really care about the infaltion?
19:08:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: that is true, but it will also do stuff if you don't change grfs. or change non-industry grfs
19:09:35  <TiberiusTeng> can we just 'redo' the inflation progress ?
19:09:36  <peter1138> "officialLY"
19:09:56  <Ammler> that is why you should know it, I suggest a additional "reset" button then. :-)
19:10:11  <peter1138> What needs to be reset?
19:10:25  <peter1138> Having a reset button in a game smells of something gone wrong elsewhere.
19:10:31  <Yorick> economy
19:10:43  <Yorick> peter1138: something with newcargoes
19:10:48  <Ammler> engines and cargo
19:11:20  <Ammler> engines has the console command which you would like to remove too.
19:11:27  <Yorick> ^^
19:11:50  <Ammler> or is the function itself the "ugly" thing?
19:12:19  <peter1138> Solution: Don't change NewGRFs.
19:12:54  <Ammler> or play TTDPatch, I know
19:13:03  <Ammler> but I would like to use OTTD :P
19:16:44  <peter1138> I have no idea how well TTDPatch copes with changing NewGRFs, and don't really care.
19:17:00  <Ammler> at least, it does.
19:17:27  <Ammler> I do not know more, do also not care :-)
19:17:37  <peter1138> Also, you piss me off
19:17:57  <DaleStan> Unless you remove industries or cargoes that are in use, nothing breaks.
19:17:57  <peter1138> So I don't care.
19:18:10  <SpComb> hmm... gdb thinks my bin/openttd isn't an executable, yet I can execute it fine via bash, and file says it's a "ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped"
19:18:34  <SpComb> (gdb says "not in executable format: File format not recognized")
19:19:13  <DaleStan> "stripped"? Could that cause problems for gdb?
19:20:10  <SpComb> I thought that was odd as well, but I'm not really familiar with what it means
19:20:11  <peter1138> No.
19:20:25  <peter1138> That just means you don't get debug symbols (so gdb is pretty useless anyway)
19:20:27  <SpComb> I configured OpenTTD with  --enable-debug
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19:21:37  <TiberiusTeng> seems your gdb isn't targeted for x86-64 ?
19:22:13  <SpComb> I've used it before on this machine, and I'm pretty sure I've been building x86-64 executables
19:22:53  <SpComb> yes, I can use gdb fine with other files that I've compiled that `file` shows as x86-64
19:23:22  <SpComb> and the only difference is indeed "stripped" vs "not stripped"
19:26:43  <SpComb> ah well, I'll try again with --enable-debug=3, I think that'll work better
19:27:14  <glx> --enable-debug=3 is always better for gdb
19:27:25  <glx> no inlines
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19:27:34  <SpComb> yeah, and -O0 vs -O2
19:30:28  <SpComb> indeed, it works
19:31:00  <SpComb> interesting that a google search for that error didn't turn up anything relevant
19:34:11  <Brianetta> dih: MrConsole should pause the game when nobody's about.  he's damned cool, though
19:37:36  *** TrueBrain [truelight@] has joined #openttd
19:37:42  <TrueBrain> burp
19:38:08  <TrueBrain> No Unauthroised what?
19:38:34  <TrueBrain> @op
19:38:35  *** mode/#openttd [+o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
19:38:38  <glx> it used to be bots
19:39:04  *** TrueBrain changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.1 | Website: * (DevBlog: blog, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots
19:39:10  <TrueBrain> I removed 'archive' and 'maillist', both out-dated
19:39:12  <TrueBrain> @deop
19:39:12  *** mode/#openttd [-o TrueBrain] by DorpsGek
19:39:40  <Noldo> TrueBrain: how's nail?
19:39:44  <TrueBrain> @bark
19:39:46  <DorpsGek> bark bark
19:39:46  <Yorick> what do we need to thank for this unexpected visit, oh lord TrueBrain _O_
19:39:46  <glx> there was a "No Idiots" for some time
19:40:01  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:40:02  <Yorick> ?
19:40:12  <TrueBrain> Yorick: I was looking for someone to kick, so I checked which channels you were in :p
19:40:19  <glx> lol
19:41:43  <Brianetta> Oooh, yapp applied to tonight's nightly
19:42:08  <Brianetta> That saved changing revision
19:42:30  <Eddi|zuHause2> YAPP should be IN today's nigtly :p
19:43:24  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
19:43:41  <fjb> I guess it will sometime in the future.
19:44:04  <Forked> with maybe less cpu usage when not in use :\
19:44:43  <Rubidium> fjb: the future will not add YAPP to today's (i.e. 2008-07-18's) nightly
19:45:11  <Noldo> but future's today is not today's today
19:45:22  <TrueBrain> Rubidium, as picky as always :)
19:45:25  <fjb> Rubidium: Ok you convinced me.
19:48:15  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: FS reports still reported incompletely?
19:48:32  <TrueBrain> Vote No UTF-8; Vote No UTF-8
19:48:36  <Rubidium> seems to be okay now
19:48:45  <TrueBrain> so it was just (an other) network hickup ;)
19:51:34  <Eddi|zuHause2> UTF-8 is bad, we should all use EBCDIC :p
19:52:14  <Yorick> vote No chinese bugreports
19:52:44  <TrueBrain> vote No!
19:52:53  <Yorick> to Obama!
19:52:56  <TrueBrain> glad to see you guys are still a fun bunch
19:53:01  <TrueBrain> Yorick: that should deserve a kick ...
19:53:10  <Yorick> ...
19:53:34  <Yorick> could you stop looking for opportunities to kick me, it scares me
19:53:43  <TrueBrain> but you make it so very easy ...
19:53:59  <TrueBrain> glx: can you provide me with how the nightly line looked like? (in the days it worked :p)
19:54:33  <Sacro> argh a TrueBrain
19:54:42  <Yorick> he makes it easier ^^
19:56:15  <TrueBrain> but Sacro is nice :)
19:56:43  <Sacro> is he?
19:56:52  <TrueBrain> aren't you?
19:57:01  <Sacro> well i'm certainly confused
19:57:02  <Yorick> he is?
19:57:11  <TrueBrain> aren't you always?
19:57:15  <Sacro> alas poor Yorick
19:57:21  <Sacro> TrueBrain: no, i can be a pain
19:57:26  <TrueBrain> you can?
19:57:31  <Sacro> i can
19:57:32  <TrueBrain> @kick TrueBrain enough is enough
19:57:32  *** TrueBrain was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [enough is enough]
19:57:39  <Yorick> argh a Sacro
19:57:47  * Sacro scuttles off
19:57:48  <Yorick> he likes seems
19:57:56  <peter1138> Me too
19:58:00  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [Whoops]
19:58:01  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
19:58:25  <Osai> hi peter1138 :D
19:58:30  <Osai> I heard two booom's
19:58:31  <Wolf01> meee meee meee!!
19:58:35  <Yorick> hi peter1138
19:58:50  <Osai> sounded like a war
19:59:47  <Yorick> there is a wolf that woud not mind kicking...
20:00:12  <ln> hello, communists
20:01:01  <TiberiusTeng> oops
20:01:06  <Yorick> and there is a ln that would certainly not
20:08:30  *** TrueBrain [truelight@] has joined #openttd
20:08:32  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [AND a yorick too!]
20:08:33  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
20:08:44  <TrueBrain> reminder to self, do what you came for before kicking yourself
20:08:58  <Yorick> :D
20:09:00  *** Klanticus [~Klanticus@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:09:22  * TrueBrain likes peter1138 :)
20:10:10  <TrueBrain> @openttd servers
20:10:11  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Servers online: 156; Running version 0.6.1 (latest): 79; Clients online: 114
20:10:27  <Yorick> some guy is planning to set up 100
20:10:32  <Rubidium> looks still normal
20:10:38  <Rubidium> less clients than servers
20:11:01  <TrueBrain> yup
20:11:02  <TrueBrain> @openttd bugs
20:11:03  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: Open Bugs: 45; Not assigned: 31; Closed this week: 7; Opened this week: 7
20:11:06  <ln> Rubidium: *fewer
20:11:21  <Yorick> balanced :)
20:12:51  <Ammler> TrueBrain:
20:13:16  <TrueBrain> Ammler: good for you :)
20:13:38  <Ammler> :P
20:14:48  <Ammler> GRF "ladder" doesn't change much...
20:15:59  <KingJ> Hmm, is there any reason why towns start to expand really slowly late in the game? (2100+)
20:16:22  <joachim> if they do, there is a reason
20:16:48  <TrueBrain> lol, even a bug would be a reason, cool ideology :)
20:17:01  <KingJ> All well supplied etc
20:17:13  <Forked> "it wouldn't happen if it wasn't coded that way"
20:17:18  <joachim> TrueBrain: right :)
20:17:27  <TrueBrain> Forked: that for sure isn't true :)
20:17:43  <Forked> but if it happens the code told it to do so :\
20:17:59  <TrueBrain> what if the OS changed the code runtime and made it do something else?
20:18:30  <Forked> then the OS was coded to do so, and it's still code doing it?
20:18:42  <TrueBrain> if you define that as 'code', you are right :)
20:18:51  <TrueBrain> but 'instructions' would be better ;)
20:18:51  <Yorick> what if the user changed the code runtime and made it do something else?
20:19:14  <Yexo> the the code of word can type letters! Ok, it needs some help from the user, but the code shows the letters on the screen
20:19:54  <Yorick> Yexo: you're claiming your chat is actually AI?
20:20:13  <TrueBrain> who mentoined the word AI?
20:20:18  <Forked> TrueBrain: but is the OS not made out of code that too?
20:20:21  * Yorick raises hand
20:20:22  <TrueBrain> or give you the idea of any intelligence on the part of the code?
20:20:26  <TrueBrain> @kick Yorick go fish
20:20:26  <Yexo> no, I'm only claiming some codes in my computer are sending this message to you all :P)
20:20:26  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [go fish]
20:20:27  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
20:20:38  * Yorick brought TB fish!
20:20:50  <joachim> if AI made TTD he would have made himself smarter
20:20:58  <TrueBrain> Forked: depends on which OS :) I know a few OSes which isn't built from 'code'
20:21:04  <Yexo> Yorick is going to set a record: "How many times can you be kicked in one hour"
20:21:05  <TrueBrain> dunno if you can call it an OS ..
20:21:17  <Forked> written in machine code?
20:21:19  <Yorick> Yexo: no, I've broke that in noai
20:21:31  <Forked> note to self: never argue about code-related stuff with a coder .. at least not before you can code
20:21:42  <TrueBrain> hehe @ Forked :)
20:21:42  <joachim> btw, you shouldn't blaim the code for things that does not happen
20:21:50  <Yorick> note to self: never argue with TrueBrain
20:21:53  <joachim> like growth, our doing your shopping
20:21:55  <TrueBrain> Forked: yes, machine code, or worse: what is the english word .. those things with holes?
20:21:56  <joachim> ;)
20:21:59  <TrueBrain> which they used to use ..
20:22:01  <Forked> punch cards
20:22:04  <TrueBrain> YES! :)
20:22:11  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:22:11  <TrueBrain> Yorick: in your case, wise idea
20:22:13  <joachim> ibm <3
20:22:14  <Yexo> joachim: so you shouldn't blame your computer if it does nothing?
20:22:20  <Forked> but machine code .. still contains the word CODE! :p
20:22:48  <TrueBrain> encode, also contanis the word code, but if it has anything to do with programming ...
20:22:56  <TrueBrain> I am sure we can find more words with the word 'code' in it
20:23:09  <Yorick> decode
20:23:16  <Forked> it's probably code somewhere encoding though .. ;p
20:23:19  <Forked> ok I'll shut it now :)
20:23:20  <TrueBrain> really, 5 minutes in this channel, and Yorick already annoys me
20:23:24  <TrueBrain> you have a second sense for that Yorick?
20:23:31  <joachim> Yexo: then it's the lack of code, not the code, that is the problem :P
20:23:32  <TrueBrain> Forked: depends, if you do it with pen and paper :)
20:23:36  <Yorick> some people really get annoyed by me easily
20:23:41  <Yorick> I've counted 2 so far
20:23:47  <TrueBrain> you can count?
20:23:48  <TrueBrain> wow ..
20:23:55  <TrueBrain> but my guess is you can't count past 2
20:24:01  <TrueBrain> 1, 2, 1, 2, 1, 2, ..
20:24:08  <TrueBrain> as I estimate the number to be around 90
20:24:12  <TrueBrain> where I assume 3 bots :p
20:24:15  <Yorick> it's more around 10
20:24:16  <Yexo> or he counts 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, ...... , 2
20:24:25  <joachim> 10 as in ten or three?
20:24:27  <TrueBrain> Yexo: haha :)
20:24:36  <TrueBrain> joachim: nerd
20:24:45  <joachim> i might be code
20:24:52  <Yorick> code
20:24:54  <Yorick> noes
20:24:56  <Yorick> code
20:25:02  <TrueBrain> "the other's got annoyed enough to have you on /ignore so they can't be annoyed by you anymore" -- anonymous
20:25:17  <Yorick> I wonder if D. has
20:25:24  <Forked> hm, usually it's me that annoy people.. I guess I'm not active enough for that here :)
20:25:42  <TrueBrain> so far you seem like a fun guy Forked :p
20:25:43  <Yexo> <joachim> i might be code <- if code qualifies as bot, you're not allowed here :p
20:25:52  <Yorick> TB: you're strange...sacro annoys you not, but I do
20:26:01  <TrueBrain> but I like Sacro :)
20:26:04  <Forked> heh :p
20:26:10  <Yorick> cantbe
20:26:27  <TrueBrain> I always messed up Sacro and SpComb, which was good for Sacro's reputation :)
20:26:37  <TrueBrain> s/messed up/confused/
20:26:40  <Sacro> haha
20:26:46  * Sacro throws a log at TrueBrain
20:27:06  * TrueBrain dodges
20:27:22  * Yorick catches
20:27:31  * Yexo runs away from Yorick
20:27:35  <joachim> hm
20:27:44  <joachim> i saw a bot earlier
20:27:47  * TrueBrain kicks Yorick out of the channel
20:27:47  *** Yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [you missed]
20:27:48  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
20:28:03  <joachim> i see a bot :)
20:28:18  <TrueBrain> @bark
20:28:19  <DorpsGek> bark bark
20:28:20  <Yorick> it's a village idiot
20:28:50  <joachim> ah, like me
20:29:04  <TrueBrain> but then a bit more static
20:31:49  *** Yorick [] has quit [Quit: and Poef!]
20:32:12  <TrueBrain> like he would never leave :p
20:32:43  <glx> when he'll come back I'll kick him for posting a youtube link :)
20:32:58  <TrueBrain> :)
20:33:04  <TrueBrain> you guys are even more mean than I am :p
20:34:23  <glx> though it's a nice video
20:35:15  *** Progman [] has joined #openttd
20:36:11  *** Yorick [] has joined #openttd
20:36:15  <Yorick> The youtube videos need to be ontopic...this one is :)
20:36:22  <SpComb> TrueBrain: you mean you loved Sacro more than me? :<
20:36:26  <TrueBrain> glx: it is all yours :)
20:36:31  <TrueBrain> SpComb: not really ...
20:36:36  <Yorick> and get me the no offtopic youtube link rule
20:36:39  <Yorick> from the topic :)
20:38:13  *** Yorick [] has quit []
20:38:23  <glx> arg too slow
20:40:04  <KingJ> Argh, stupid inflation. Destroying my game
20:41:02  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!~yorick@*] by peter1138
20:41:04  <peter1138> There :p
20:41:21  <TrueBrain> peter1138: you made the world a better place :)
20:41:23  <TrueBrain> poor yorick
20:42:16  <Forked> peter1138 - Making the world a better place, one IRC channel at the time =D
20:42:22  *** DJNekkid [] has joined #openttd
20:42:42  <Forked> heya dj
20:43:19  <DJNekkid> sorry for asking again, but are you guys sure that the callback 36 type 17 (purch cost) work for train wagons?
20:43:21  <DJNekkid> hi Forked
20:43:36  <DJNekkid> -1 * 0  02 00 B5 81 10 00 FF 04 \b45 80 14 14 \b51 80 16 16 \b20 80 0D 0D \b135 80 17 17 B4 00 <-- dont work
20:43:40  <TrueBrain> DJNekkid: lets ask the gods :)
20:44:24  <DJNekkid> isnt that just what i did?
20:44:41  <TrueBrain> yup :)
20:44:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13732 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt network/network_gui.cpp window_gui.h): -Feature: add a few extra columns with information to the server list. Patch by Pegasus.
20:44:58  <TrueBrain> but it is missing the silly dance that comes with it :)
20:45:36  <peter1138> DJNekkid: Are you dealing with articulated parts?
20:45:40  <DJNekkid> no
20:46:38  <peter1138> And the other bits of that line work?
20:46:51  <DJNekkid> yes ...
20:46:53  <DJNekkid>
20:46:57  <DJNekkid> here is the whole section for that train
20:47:18  <TrueBrain> every time I see NewGRF lines, all my brain things is: ..... *deep silence* .... :)
20:47:23  <TrueBrain> respect to those who understand it ;)
20:47:24  <TrueBrain> bye all :)
20:47:33  *** TrueBrain [truelight@] has left #openttd [blub]
20:47:40  <peter1138> You haven't formatted that very well.
20:47:51  <DJNekkid> i know
20:48:01  <peter1138> You know you can have line breaks, right?
20:48:02  <Rubidium> formatting and comments is 90% of understanding nfo ;)
20:48:21  <DJNekkid> i comment all my stuff pretty good tho :)
20:48:47  <peter1138> No, that Action 0 is not commented well at all.
20:48:48  <DJNekkid> and the paster dont seem to handle tab's very well :)
20:49:05  <DJNekkid> the action 0 is a matter of copy/paste and forget :)
20:49:07  <DJNekkid> hehe
20:49:18  <DJNekkid> it's commented, just that the commentes dont mach up
20:49:29  <DJNekkid> it just so that i can remember what parts do what :)
20:50:19  <peter1138> This is why line breaks are useful.
20:50:37  <DJNekkid> i heavent gotten that to work ... atleast with a -1 * 0 ...
20:50:38  <DaleStan> Are you quite sure the wagon gets attached to the engine (thus triggering the override 3) *before* the vehicle gets purchased?
20:51:08  <joachim> nfos have comments?
20:51:11  <peter1138> If it's an override, then no, that won't work.
20:51:16  <DJNekkid> ehm ...
20:51:28  <DJNekkid> but the capacity and weight works
20:51:34  <DJNekkid> and the running cost as well ...
20:51:43  <DJNekkid> just not the purchase price (17)
20:51:56  <peter1138> They're modified when the wagon is attached.
20:52:13  <DaleStan> How many times does purchase price get called? Exactly once. On purchase.
20:52:15  <peter1138> Purchase price is always before it's attached.
20:52:40  <DJNekkid> oh ...
20:52:44  <DaleStan> The rest are called in the vehicle window and again immediately after attachment.
20:52:51  <DJNekkid> oh ...
20:52:53  <DaleStan> The rest are called in the vehicle *purchase* window and again immediately after attachment.
20:53:15  <DJNekkid> so, i guess there is no way of doing what i want there then
20:53:49  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:54:33  <TiberiusTeng> speaking of GRFs, I always wondered why it's xpos ypos ysize xsize ... i.e. the order of x/y is reversed when describing the size
20:57:28  <DJNekkid> or is it possible to do a "if ice3 then get higher price" on the wagon?
20:58:27  * Ammler is checking newest HEAD, seems a nice addon :-)
20:59:43  <joachim> is the number of units forced?
21:00:10  <frosch123> TiberiusTeng: because ysize xsize xrel yrel is the order in the binary .grf. Now it's your turn: Can you tell me why they start with "DO NOT MODIFY" :p
21:00:41  <peter1138> DJNekkid: As that's what you've just been trying, no.
21:00:57  <DJNekkid> peter1138: isnt it kida opposite?
21:01:04  <peter1138> Hmm?
21:01:40  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r13733 /trunk/src/ (oldpool_func.h player_base.h): -Fix (r13731): gcc2.95 compilation
21:02:05  <SpComb> is sscanf portable in OpenTTD code? It's used in src/network/network.cpp, but both cases are behind #ifdefs
21:02:14  <DJNekkid> peter1138: either way ... i guess ill scratch that idea :)
21:03:39  <SmatZ> SpComb: I think it doesn't work in windows builds, but I may be terribly wrong.... there was some problem with s(n)printf not supported there, I don't really remember
21:06:34  <DJNekkid> but a counterquestion peter1138 ... if i were dealing with articulated parts, would it help?
21:07:12  <peter1138> No, you only pay for the first part.
21:07:35  <DJNekkid> oki ... i guess ill set the price to a typical 8part formation then
21:08:18  <DaleStan> TiberiusTeng: Because that's what GRFCodec expects. And *that* is because the order in the GRF file is ysize xsize xrel yrel.
21:08:42  <DaleStan> If you want to know why the grf file is encoded that way, you'll have to ask CS.
21:09:56  <TiberiusTeng> ha ... indeed.
21:10:04  <TiberiusTeng> DaleStan, thanks for that info
21:10:48  *** ben_goodger [] has joined #openttd
21:11:00  <DJNekkid> btw, does anyone have a nice remix of "viva la vida" ? :)
21:11:26  <ben_goodger> ...
21:16:39  *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
21:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause2> YOU are the DJ :p
21:22:36  <DJNekkid> i know, but i lack that one...
21:22:47  <DJNekkid> and i got a gig tomorrow, and i cant find one
21:22:52  <DJNekkid> cept on youtube
21:25:31  *** Frostregen [] has joined #openttd
21:26:09  <DJNekkid> Frostregen :)
21:27:02  *** TinoM [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
21:29:10  *** ben_goodger [] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
21:29:56  *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
21:34:46  *** ProfFrink [] has joined #openttd
21:39:52  <DJNekkid> crapshit! i found one, but it wont dl
21:40:22  *** Prof_Frink [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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22:04:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... which revision was the quarry fix?
22:04:53  <glx> long time ago I think
22:05:37  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have a fear that my yapp version is older :p
22:07:34  <fjb> Quarry fix?
22:08:08  <Eddi|zuHause2> it does not appear to say "quarry" in the log...
22:08:36  *** AmixE90 [] has quit [Quit: La mour De Morph]
22:08:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: industry placement check was failing for quarries
22:09:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> [from PBI]
22:10:37  <fjb> Oh. In some games the quarry appears. But most of the time the placement function doesn't find any place for it. But that isn't easy anyway.
22:15:32  *** DaleStan_ [] has joined #openttd
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22:15:32  *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan
22:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: on a 2048^2 map when all other industries are about 60, having 0 quarries is kinda odd :p
22:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause2> also, it fails for manual placement
22:20:33  *** Guest145 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:20:51  <fjb> Yes, but as I understood it the placement function choses a random place and test the conditions then.
22:21:30  <frosch123> @openttd commit 12759
22:21:31  <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by belugas :: r12759 trunk/src/newgrf_industrytiles.cpp (2008-04-18 03:17:22 UTC)
22:21:32  <DorpsGek> frosch123: -Fix(r12358): There is no need to mask callback result for pre-version7 since CBID_INDTILE_SHAPE_CHECK (cb2F) is really 15 bits.
22:21:48  <frosch123> but IIRC it was broken and fixed several times :p
22:22:59  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: there was also a "quarry update" itself
22:23:10  <Ammler> do you use the newest PBI ?
22:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> Ammler: yes, i know that, but it still fails without the code fix
22:27:53  *** De_Ghost [] has joined #openttd
22:30:32  <SpComb>
22:31:35  <SpComb> that's how far I've gotten - it filters out the missing NewGRFs, displays them, and then requests available NewGRFs from the central db
22:31:49  <SpComb> next step would be to download the NewGRFs and activate them
22:32:18  <Ammler> it should download a archive (tar)
22:32:28  <Ammler> some has readmes...
22:33:56  <SpComb> it does, the truncated URL ends in dbsetxl.tar
22:42:52  <SpComb> <-- there's the mercury
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22:44:29  <Brianetta> YAPP has a bug which crashes my trains into each other
22:45:14  <Ammler> Brianetta: really? do you play with 8.2?
22:45:27  <Brianetta> Let me read the patch
22:45:54  <Brianetta> hmm
22:45:56  <Brianetta> How do I tell?
22:46:01  <Brianetta> I downloaded it today
22:46:20  <Brianetta> yes
22:46:21  <Brianetta> 8.2
22:46:28  <Brianetta>
22:46:29  <Brianetta> That one
22:46:41  <Brianetta> patched against tonight's nightly
22:46:43  <Brianetta> erm
22:46:48  <Ammler> :-)
22:46:53  <Brianetta> r13731M
22:46:57  <Ammler> I believe you... :P
22:47:01  <Brianetta> and my trains explode (:
22:47:21  *** GoneWacko [] has joined #openttd
22:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> reproduceable?
22:50:24  <Brianetta> Will be
22:50:32  * Brianetta is posting and attaching the necessaries
22:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause2> frosch123: thanks, that was the right fix ;)
22:52:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> my build is 12697M
22:53:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> which was like 60 revisions before that fix
22:53:09  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause2: did you end your strike :P
22:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> no, i just loosened the constraints ;)
22:53:41  <Brianetta>
22:53:43  <Brianetta> YAPP bugrep
22:53:48  <Brianetta> for those who are keen
22:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't not play, but instead i don't update :p
22:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> well... you know how it works with addictions...
22:55:32  <Brianetta> I don't need to post config on modern OpenTTDs do I?
22:55:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> you shouldn't
22:55:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> most settings are saved in the game
22:55:52  <Brianetta> That should be enough, then
22:56:05  <Brianetta> Saved game, revision, patch version and grfs
22:56:20  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:56:46  *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz
22:56:56  * Brianetta has been a professional tester
22:57:17  <Brianetta> I can find bugs, reproduce them *and* describe them.
22:58:06  <Ammler> ottdc_grfpack 7.1 is now compatible with your server :-)
22:58:16  <Brianetta> Cool.
22:58:26  <Brianetta> Mind you, we're updating to industry renewal soon
22:58:32  <Ammler> what should I do do make the crash?
22:58:41  <Brianetta> See that link I posted?
22:58:57  <Brianetta> Just load the game and wait
22:59:16  <Brianetta> Or build a similar system and wait longer
23:00:10  <Brianetta> Reproduction of bugs is assisted immensely in games with this much state if you have a save which precedes a manifestation of the bug by enough time to get a debugger involved.
23:00:16  <Brianetta> In this case, six game months.
23:00:23  <Ammler> yep it happen
23:00:34  <Ammler> made fast forward
23:00:42  <Brianetta> yeah
23:00:52  <Brianetta> it's a deterministic bug, which means it's fixable
23:01:29  <Brianetta> See, now I don't want to carry on with that game
23:01:38  <Brianetta> because the trains do explode with some regularity
23:01:44  <Brianetta> which is bad for business
23:02:09  <Ammler> :-)
23:02:29  <Ammler> a nice little network
23:02:37  <Brianetta> It's a test network
23:02:42  <Brianetta> I wanted to push the PBS
23:02:55  <Brianetta> This was a testing attempt from the start
23:03:13  <Brianetta> Few of the busy bits are similar
23:03:25  <Brianetta> Every station has its differences
23:03:43  <Brianetta> There are "reasonable" diversionary routes throughout
23:04:04  <Brianetta> I did get some deadlocking at one point, but that was remedied
23:04:24  <Brianetta> I was trying for as few one-way tracks as possible.
23:04:45  <Brianetta> Basically, I was picturing the "LOOK BOTH WAYS" signs we have on NR property
23:05:14  <Ammler> signals aren't that optimal
23:05:22  <Ammler> did you use pbs everywhere?
23:05:29  <Brianetta> Of course they aren't, and yes I did
23:06:03  <Brianetta> "Optimal" means "like every other bugger does it," and implies "all the bugs here were fixed"
23:07:46  <Ammler> I could make you a better save
23:07:47  *** bleepy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:07:57  <Ammler> it happens on jan 5.
23:07:58  <Brianetta> Better in which respect?
23:08:05  <Brianetta> Yes, I said it does
23:08:08  <Ammler> every time, if I fast forward.
23:08:13  <Brianetta> Yes
23:08:26  <Brianetta> I wanted to give the dev the full 6 months
23:08:37  <Brianetta> The bug could be caused by something that happens earlier
23:08:55  <Brianetta> This way, more information is provided
23:12:27  *** fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
23:12:53  <Ammler> it happens also with older yapps
23:13:21  <Brianetta> yeah; I made no assumption that this was a new bug.  just newly found.
23:13:38  <Ammler> of course
23:14:14  <Ammler> just don't see what is that special on your testcase
23:14:34  <Brianetta> It reproduced it.
23:14:38  <Brianetta> That's basically it.
23:14:51  <Brianetta> It can go for years without having a problem
23:14:58  <Brianetta> there were a couple of near misses
23:16:09  <De_Ghost> really?
23:16:16  <De_Ghost> make me a jpg :D
23:16:22  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:16:26  <Brianetta> of a near miss?
23:16:35  <De_Ghost> of the bug
23:16:39  <Brianetta> Basically, one train enters a platform as the other leaves
23:16:46  <De_Ghost> or the track section involving it
23:16:50  <Brianetta> so you get two trains in the station
23:17:04  <Brianetta> Hang on, let me upload the screenies
23:18:33  <Ammler> Brianetta: the main problem is the train which is first in the station loses the reservation
23:18:48  <Ammler> it should keep that until it has left the station
23:20:31  <Ammler> my old yapp was already 8.1
23:20:36  <Ammler> I try with 8.0
23:23:10  <Wolf01> 'night
23:23:17  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:23:19  <Brianetta> De_Ghost:
23:25:02  <Brianetta> btw, the monitor I am playing on cost £500 (-:
23:25:50  <De_Ghost> 24 inch?
23:26:03  <De_Ghost> my monitor cost me 200$ cad :D
23:26:07  <Brianetta> visible, yes
23:26:18  <De_Ghost> 22" visible :)
23:26:22  <Brianetta> It's rotatable, has five inputs, picture in picture
23:26:36  <De_Ghost> o nice
23:26:36  <Brianetta> and a built in USB hub / card reader
23:26:44  <De_Ghost> don't need usb  :D
23:26:49  <De_Ghost> my case have 10 of em
23:26:50  <De_Ghost> lol
23:27:01  <De_Ghost> rotable is nice tho
23:27:13  <De_Ghost> i wanna build a wall mount for mine so i can rotate it too :)
23:27:27  <De_Ghost> drunning stone?
23:28:23  <De_Ghost> hmmm
23:28:54  <Brianetta>
23:28:57  <Brianetta> That's the monitor (:
23:29:27  <Brianetta> Privce has come down a bit; we've had it a while now
23:30:06  <De_Ghost> that's hot
23:30:38  <De_Ghost> i think 22" are the best bang for bucks
23:30:49  <De_Ghost> woah
23:30:55  <De_Ghost> that's 1k cad for that mon
23:30:57  <De_Ghost> i think
23:31:02  <Brianetta> Probably.  Not having a TV set, we needed something to plug the PS/2 and the DVD player ionto
23:31:08  <De_Ghost> yea it is
23:31:15  <De_Ghost> holy
23:31:25  <Ammler> Brianetta: are you able to rebuild it?
23:31:25  <De_Ghost> i rather get 4 22" monitor lol
23:31:32  <De_Ghost> and i still have 200$ left
23:31:37  <Brianetta> Ammler: From memory?  No.
23:31:52  <De_Ghost> and get another gfx card
23:32:02  <De_Ghost> and i have 44" screen XD
23:32:59  *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:33:13  <Brianetta>
23:33:18  <Brianetta> but look at the plugholes
23:33:26  <De_Ghost> lol
23:33:36  <De_Ghost> the tv plug is nice tho
23:33:40  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
23:33:50  <Brianetta> oh yeah
23:33:51  <De_Ghost> look at my plug holes :D
23:33:55  <Brianetta> we don't have, or want, a TV license
23:34:14  <De_Ghost> 1 dvi 1 blue one and a power plug
23:34:15  <De_Ghost> :)
23:34:23  <De_Ghost> yea
23:34:25  <De_Ghost> tv is boring
23:34:44  <Brianetta> and 24" is nice for DVDs, and we have a account
23:34:52  <De_Ghost> o
23:35:05  <De_Ghost> never heard
23:35:25  *** grumbel [] has quit [Quit: Client exiting]
23:35:30  <De_Ghost> cool
23:35:56  <Brianetta> Not much use in California
23:36:03  <De_Ghost> or canada
23:36:05  <De_Ghost> lol
23:36:06  <Brianetta> or even Canada
23:36:17  <Brianetta> Hey, you should have a .ca
23:36:22  <Brianetta> not a .com
23:36:23  <De_Ghost> nah
23:36:24  <De_Ghost> why?
23:36:38  <Brianetta> Actually, I just got changed from a .uk so I can't talk
23:36:42  <De_Ghost> canada is like a state of usa
23:36:48  <De_Ghost> except we have a cooler gov
23:36:56  <De_Ghost> and we don't waste shitload of money doing useless things
23:37:01  <Brianetta> and we share a monarch
23:37:14  <De_Ghost> lol
23:37:17  <De_Ghost> yea
23:37:22  <De_Ghost> only a figure head tho
23:37:39  <De_Ghost> my passport still say something about the queen her majesty soemthing
23:38:06  <De_Ghost> and i can use ur embassy too if a canadian doesn't exist :D
23:38:21  <De_Ghost> or if ur's is closer
23:38:38  <Brianetta> Her Britannic Majest Requests and Requires the Bearer to be permitted to Pass without Let nor Hindrance, and to provide the Bearer with such Assistance as is Necessary
23:38:41  <Brianetta> otr something like that
23:38:49  <De_Ghost> yea
23:38:51  <De_Ghost> same same
23:39:15  <Brianetta> I could grab my passport for the exact wording, it's just over there
23:39:19  * Brianetta points
23:39:22  <De_Ghost> no leave it
23:39:25  <De_Ghost> it's probably the same
23:39:26  <De_Ghost> lol
23:39:32  <De_Ghost> i'm going out later man
23:39:53  <De_Ghost> but still shit 500
23:39:59  <De_Ghost> pound for a mon
23:40:01  <De_Ghost> you crazy
23:40:03  <De_Ghost> :)
23:40:14  <Brianetta> (:
23:40:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have no idea what that sentence means
23:40:22  <Brianetta> It's mostly my wife's
23:40:47  <De_Ghost> lol
23:40:53  <Brianetta> Eddi: Basically, let the bearer through, and help him if necessary, or piss off the Wueen
23:40:55  <De_Ghost> she owns 70% of the mon?
23:40:55  <Brianetta> er
23:40:57  <Brianetta> Queen
23:41:08  <De_Ghost> haha
23:41:11  <De_Ghost> hun
23:41:13  <Brianetta> De_Ghost: It was a present from me
23:41:16  <De_Ghost> i need to watch movie!!
23:41:20  <Brianetta> and it's on her box
23:41:24  <De_Ghost> ahh
23:41:25  <De_Ghost> lol
23:41:43  <Brianetta> My monitors and PC are still packed (we moved three weeks ago)
23:42:09  <Brianetta> I can't unpack them until the loft gets floorboards.  They're buried in other crap, as is the space it's going
23:42:17  <Brianetta> Our spare room, isn't
23:42:58  <De_Ghost> lol
23:43:13  <Ammler> Brianetta: the problem is train 10 from the other side, it "cleans" the reservation.
23:43:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think i still have an unpacked moving box
23:43:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> and we moved 10 years ago :p
23:43:32  <Brianetta> Ammler: Great.  Are you fixing it? (:
23:43:34  <De_Ghost>
23:43:35  <De_Ghost> :D
23:43:42  <Ammler> lol
23:44:31  <De_Ghost> 2 mons :d
23:44:31  <Brianetta> Ugh, Windows
23:44:51  * Brianetta has four virtual monitors on the sides of a cuboid
23:44:59  <Brianetta> Search Youtube for Compiz
23:45:06  <Brianetta> and you'll see what I'm using
23:45:31  <De_Ghost> oh
23:46:05  <De_Ghost> w/e
23:46:06  <De_Ghost> lol
23:46:08  <De_Ghost> same shit
23:46:38  <De_Ghost> cuz games only work on windows
23:46:45  <glx> false
23:46:51  * Brianetta points at OpenTTD
23:46:58  <De_Ghost> errrr
23:47:02  * De_Ghost points to crysis
23:47:04  <glx> DX games
23:47:06  * De_Ghost points to bioshock
23:47:07  <Brianetta> whatsis?
23:47:14  <Brianetta> whatshock?
23:47:26  <De_Ghost> wine emulation is horrid
23:47:47  <Brianetta> Nethack, OpenTTD.
23:47:48  <De_Ghost> well not horrid jsut a big penaty
23:47:49  <glx> crysis requires too much power anyway
23:47:50  <Brianetta> Is there more?
23:48:05  <De_Ghost> starcraft?
23:48:07  <De_Ghost> lol
23:48:31  <De_Ghost> oh i saw that interface
23:48:31  <De_Ghost> Compiz
23:48:40  <De_Ghost> it's alot cooler with touch screen :D
23:48:48  <Brianetta>
23:48:55  <Brianetta> That's Windows Aero vs Compiz
23:49:05  <De_Ghost> pfft forget aero
23:49:15  <Brianetta> I almost did
23:49:22  <glx> aero is just a ressource eater
23:49:22  <Brianetta> I've been using Compiz for a few years now
23:49:24  <De_Ghost> i would use 98 if it had dx 9
23:49:48  <De_Ghost> and support
23:50:21  <De_Ghost> anyywas
23:50:23  <De_Ghost> bbl
23:51:09  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:54:29  <Eddi|zuHause2> Brianetta:

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