Log for #openttd on 19th July 2008:
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00:01:20  <Brianetta> That's rather sad (:
00:01:37  <Brianetta> Schade
00:05:58  <Brianetta> Donner und Blitzen, hier und jetzt
00:06:16  <Brianetta> I wondered what the flashes were, until I heard the thunder
00:06:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> don't let ln hear you :p
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00:17:41  <TiberiusTeng> just finished ...
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01:31:06  <ccfreak2k> What terrible luck.
01:31:10  <ccfreak2k> My main monitor just died.
01:32:02  <SmatZ> my hard disk died 3 days ago
01:32:06  <SmatZ> luck, too :-x
01:32:21  <ccfreak2k> Except my monitor is kind of hard to come by.
01:32:35  <ccfreak2k>
01:33:13  <SmatZ> nice, I like flat big CRTs :)
01:33:38  <ccfreak2k> And it did 1600x1200 at 85Hz. It's a very nice monitor.
01:33:50  <ccfreak2k> I'm gonna take it apart probably tomorrow to see if I can diagnose the problem.
01:33:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> in my statistics, monitors die a lot faster than hard drives
01:33:58  <SmatZ> this one... but white
01:34:16  <SmatZ> I do 1600x1200@85, too :)
01:34:59  <ccfreak2k> That's my biggest requirement for monitors these days. They gotta do high resolutions at high refresh rates.
01:35:22  <ccfreak2k> I can get a Dell M990 for  if I drive all the way down to east Sacramento.
01:35:24  <ccfreak2k> It's so far~
01:35:29  <SmatZ> hehe
01:35:32  <SmatZ> mail it
01:35:59  <ccfreak2k> Not really worth shipping.
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02:07:59  <Lachie> 1680x1050@60 ftw lol
02:08:05  <Lachie> just to add my 2c 30 minutes later
02:10:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> i second that ;)
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02:26:00  <DJNekkid> hi yall
02:28:00  <DJNekkid> just a slight Q ... M990 ... is  that "just" a CRT monitor?
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05:27:44  <Celestar> morning
05:31:54  <Celestar> has anyone had a detailed look at the paxdest thingy?
05:37:13  <Lachie> I would
05:37:32  <Lachie> but I've heard it's very unstable in newtwork games
05:37:38  <Lachie> *network
05:38:18  <Lachie> I played with the old one.
05:38:30  <Lachie> which would have ben what... 3 4 years ago?
05:38:37  <Lachie> *been
05:38:42  <Lachie> haet teh SSH lags
05:42:12  <Celestar> apparently it's slow as crap
05:43:32  <Lachie> anyway, gonna go go some charity work :D
05:43:34  <Lachie> bbl
05:43:36  <Lachie> *do
05:47:01  <Celestar> WTF?
05:49:12  <Celestar>
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05:58:16  <peter1138> Wow, bloated...
05:58:28  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, that's our source code :D
05:58:42  <Celestar> 31TB of readme :P
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06:02:05  <Celestar> peter1138: did you have a look at the paxdest thingy by chance?
06:06:34  <peter1138> Possibly a long time ago.
06:06:46  <peter1138> IIRC it wasn't very good.
06:08:31  <Celestar> which part about it was "not good?"
06:09:02  <Celestar> I mean apart from the fact that it runs a loop of all cargo packets every single day ...
06:22:53  * Celestar tries enabling gcc's loop vectorization
06:25:10  <Celestar> hm ... it manages to optimize the 32bpp blitter
06:39:47  <peter1138> Oh?
06:40:25  <Celestar> well "note: vectorization may not be profitable"
06:40:38  <blathijs> Hmm, should be fun to try to compile openttd with LLVM. See what it gives :-)
06:40:47  <Celestar> LLVM?
06:41:04  <blathijs> Low Level Virtual Machine, essentially a compiler framework
06:41:16  <Celestar> I see
06:41:29  <Celestar> I could try to run the icc/pgcc over the code and see what it does
06:41:45  <blathijs> which can use gcc to compile C++ to the LLVM Internal Representation and then run optimizations and codegeneration over the generated IR
06:42:08  <blathijs> But it has a number of very good optimizations
06:44:49  <Celestar> I see
06:45:23  <hylje> basically JIT
06:46:13  * Celestar wonders when we will ever see a work paxdest :P
06:51:05  <TiberiusTeng> just try implement it or write some 'feature specifications' ? :P
06:51:58  <TiberiusTeng> IMO it's a huge topic which can't properly implemented with comprehensive planning ...
06:53:07  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: I quite agree
06:53:18  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: are you the one who wrote the opengl blitter?
06:53:25  <TiberiusTeng> yes
06:54:08  <Celestar> I'm just about to try it :D
06:54:20  <Celestar> or let's say: I'm considering it :P
06:55:38  <blathijs> is paxdest a misspelling of passenger destinations?
06:55:45  <Celestar> blathijs: yes (=
06:56:16  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: does it work on linux anyway? I haven't looked at it yet
06:57:01  <TiberiusTeng> I think it does, as ccfreak2k wrote a SDL driver for it
06:57:18  <Celestar> well make doesn't like it
06:57:21  <Celestar> I'll check with it later
06:57:55  <TiberiusTeng>
06:58:12  <TiberiusTeng> oops :Q hope you can provide some bugreport ...
06:58:24  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: I'm by far no make specialist
06:58:53  <Celestar> and all output it currently gives is "Error 2" :S
06:58:54  <TiberiusTeng> just for your information, it won't magically uses less CPU power :P
06:59:14  <TiberiusTeng> did you ./configure --with-sdlgl ?
06:59:17  <Celestar> yeah
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06:59:53  <TiberiusTeng> mind copy/pasting the error message to ?
06:59:59  <Celestar> blathijs: "pax" is common usage for "passenger(s)"
07:00:16  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: if I got an error message other than "[all] Error 2" it would be helpful.
07:00:29  <Celestar> but in this case
07:00:33  <TiberiusTeng> ouch ...
07:00:53  <blathijs> Celestar: Yeah, I just read it. Never heard it before :-)
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07:02:59  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: well.
07:03:04  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: -d gives *some* output
07:03:56  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: apparently I'm missing "GLee"
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07:09:15  <Celestar> meh the extraction failed
07:09:59  <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:44: error: ‘va_start’ was not declared in this scope
07:10:02  <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd/trunk/src/blitter/opengl.cpp:52: error: ‘va_end’ was not declared in this scope
07:10:25  <blathijs> Sounds like a missing include?
07:10:41  <Celestar> yeah
07:10:45  <Celestar> stdarg.h for that matter
07:10:49  <blathijs> ah, yes :-)
07:11:46  <TiberiusTeng> great. I wonder how it compiled on Linux before ;)
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07:12:23  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: the newer gccs are more ... aggressive when it comes to includes
07:12:45  <Celestar> dunno what changed, but something did from 4.2 to 4.3
07:12:48  <TiberiusTeng> what version are you using then? something like 4.3.0 ?
07:12:53  <TiberiusTeng> wow. bingo. :D
07:12:53  <Celestar> had that problem with other projects too
07:12:58  <Celestar> 4.3
07:13:37  <Celestar> glee spits out a nice number of warnings
07:14:25  <Celestar> OpenGL is most likely not initialized. Make sure you used an OpenGL-compatible video driver weehaa
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07:15:41  <TiberiusTeng> run ./openttd -v sdlgl -b opengl
07:16:31  <Celestar> yeah that works...
07:16:33  <Celestar> kind of :D
07:17:30  <Celestar> apart from the fact that I get about 2 frames per second on the title screen
07:19:34  <Celestar> dbg: [GL]                    ATI_draw_buffers: NOT SUPPORTED (palette animation disabled)
07:19:37  <Celestar> dbg: [GL]              EXT_framebuffer_object: NOT SUPPORTED (palette animation disabled)
07:19:41  <Celestar> and I have purple fonts (=
07:23:14  <Celestar> I gotta head out a little
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07:34:54  <TiberiusTeng> Celestar, you'd better stick with original blitters since your card's too old for this :P
07:35:43  <blathijs> TiberiusTeng: Are you using such fancy OpenGL features, then?
07:36:13  <TiberiusTeng> blathijs, I used pixel shaders to do palette lookup ...
07:36:45  <blathijs> So you can still do palette animations?
07:36:55  <TiberiusTeng> and drawbuffer/FBO is used to do palette animation, yes
07:37:24  <blathijs> So we're using state-of-the-art graphics techniques to emulate a dirty old trick? :-p
07:37:35  <TiberiusTeng> render indexed color to FBO -> use FBO as a texture to render to screen
07:37:37  <TiberiusTeng> exactly. :P
07:39:11  <TiberiusTeng> some cards once supported 8bpp indexed color with palette, but none of state-of-the-art cards do ...
07:40:09  <TiberiusTeng> I don't want to do color-lookup on CPU, so I don't have a choice but use pixel shaders ...
07:42:22  <TiberiusTeng> but I encountered some performance issues and still haven't found a solution now :(
07:43:20  <TiberiusTeng> one of my cores seems always busy-looping to wait GPU finishes its work
07:44:41  <blathijs> That's pretty useless
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08:13:24  <Wolf01> hello
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08:33:32  <rortom> morning
08:34:01  <SpComb> almost noon
08:34:13  <rortom> 10am for me ;)
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08:41:23  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: too old?
08:41:40  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: how old is "too old?"?
08:42:11  <Lachie> damnit
08:42:20  <TiberiusTeng> IMO about 2 years ... what's the model you're using ?
08:42:24  <Lachie> left ff on in the scenario editor for too long
08:42:36  <Lachie> it's like... massive forest.
08:42:38  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: RV350 (FireGL T2)
08:42:48  * Lachie will have to remember in future that 3 hours is a little too long.
08:42:55  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: equivalent to a Radeon 9700, just "better" :)
08:44:22  <Celestar> maybe I should switch drivers ...
08:45:08  <TiberiusTeng> hmm ... no. but it's still strange
08:45:25  <TiberiusTeng> although you won't get palette animation, you shouldn't get pink text ...
08:46:29  <TiberiusTeng> but don't hold your breath anyway :p
08:46:43  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: I'm using's open source OpenGL driver. I'll swtich to AMD's own crapdriver for a test
08:50:18  <Celestar> WTH is wrong with driverguys these days? ATI'S graphics driver is 50MB, yesterday I downloaded HP's printer driver (90MB total)
08:52:03  <Rubidium> ransomware?
08:53:22  <Rubidium> and ofcourse all the crapware that's delivered with the driver
08:53:36  <Celestar> in linux? I don't find that crapware :P
08:54:13  <Rubidium> then I've got no idea
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08:54:29  <Rubidium> maybe horribly obfuscated drivers because they are "scared"?
08:54:49  <rortom> mh linux drivers are even worse
08:54:52  <rortom> like nvidia
08:55:12  <rortom> as they include binaries for different X versions and platforms
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08:56:30  <Rubidium> but for a printer driver?
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08:57:38  <Celestar> Rubidium: dunno maybe it includes some software I haven't found yet :P
08:58:13  <Celestar> then again, that printer driver supports basically every PCL or PS printer by HP, so lots of definition files
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09:10:43  <CelestarT42p> heh: note to self: running the opengl blitter with software renderer is pointless :P
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09:12:36  <CelestarT42p> ok TiberiusTeng I have some good news and some bad news
09:13:18  <CelestarT42p> which part would you like first :D
09:14:30  <TiberiusTeng> bad news is good news while debugging :D
09:15:19  <CelestarT42p> good news: it works as intended with ATI's own driver
09:15:43  <CelestarT42p> bad news: CPU usage in title screen is increased by a factor of 80 compared to the default blitter
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09:16:31  <Yorick> boo!
09:16:47  <TiberiusTeng> ouch ...
09:16:57  * CelestarT42p gets scared and accidently sticks a claymore into Yorick
09:17:08  <TiberiusTeng> so the opengl blitter sucks big time :D
09:17:20  <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: dunno what part it is, just recompiling with profiling
09:17:49  <hylje> too much stuff in software
09:17:56  <hylje> batch rendering failure
09:18:31  <Yorick> hello rortom
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09:19:17  <TiberiusTeng> it would be a great help if it's possible to isolate which OpenGL calls takes most time
09:19:24  <Yorick> you were the guy, right?
09:19:33  <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: I can give it a try
09:19:38  <TiberiusTeng> which is almost impossible under Windows ... at least I didn't find a way.
09:19:52  <TiberiusTeng> I suspect it's all concentrated on texture copy stuff ...
09:20:25  <TiberiusTeng> the 80% cpu usage is most likely busy-looping waiting the card, or converting texture format ...
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09:20:50  <CelestarT42p> WTH
09:20:59  <CelestarT42p> most use is CallVehicleTicks() ?!
09:21:12  <Yorick> it redraws the vehicles...I think
09:21:13  <hylje> curious
09:21:52  <hylje> does it correlate with fps?
09:22:16  <TiberiusTeng> maybe it didn't take the driver into account ...
09:22:22  <CelestarT42p> I'm trying to callgrind it
09:23:10  <CelestarT42p> ...
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09:23:26  <CelestarT42p> wee got a title screen
09:23:43  <hylje> i suspect it's a bit slow?
09:23:47  <CelestarT42p> in callgrind?! sure
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09:25:27  <CelestarT42p> fark. forgot the debugging symbols
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09:27:07  * CelestarT42p updates from kde 4.0.98 to 4.0.99
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09:30:38  <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: it's possibly to find on linux. callgrind tells you how much time you spend in every line of your source code
09:35:10  <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: hm .. from a first quick glance, there's nothing that seems horribly out-of-line
09:36:47  <TiberiusTeng> hmm
09:37:01  <TiberiusTeng> perhaps it didn't take opengl library/driver into account ...
09:37:09  <TiberiusTeng> that's what I faced under Windows :(
09:37:38  <TiberiusTeng> it looks awfully pretty on profiling, only leaving nvoglnt.dll sucking up another core
09:39:00  <CelestarT42p> heh
09:39:12  <CelestarT42p> who's good with kcachegrind here? :P
09:40:11  <TiberiusTeng> the pretty NVPerfHUD is only for DirectX programs ...
09:40:46  <CelestarT42p> hm ... it's the openttd process that eats the CPU, not the X server
09:42:59  <CelestarT42p> TiberiusTeng: I'll check that a bit more later
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09:44:08  <TiberiusTeng> thanks :)
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10:04:02  <fmauNeko> hello :)
10:10:31  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13734 /trunk/src/newgrf_station.cpp: -Fix: NewGRF rail continuation would always mark a tunnel on the same axis as connected, even when the tunnel faces the wrong direction.
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10:54:54  <ccfreak2k> Celestar, the sdlgl driver does work in Linux.
10:55:00  <ccfreak2k> It also works in Windows, although not as well.
10:55:11  <ccfreak2k> But it definitely was a performance improvement on my Slackware box.
10:55:50  <ccfreak2k> Also, I already ran callgrind on a few different configurations. sdlgl was an improvement across the board.
10:55:52  <Brianetta> What I want to see:
10:55:53  <Brianetta> [SRC] Compiling cargopacket.cpp
10:55:53  <Brianetta> [SRC] Compiling cargotype.cpp
10:55:53  <Brianetta> [SRC] Compiling cargocult.cpp
11:02:54  <Lachie> god damnit
11:02:58  <Lachie> I broke firefox again
11:09:54  <Lachie> I appear to have completely broken my computer
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11:10:51  <Brianetta> I can't get yapp to compile
11:10:57  <Lachie> what?!
11:11:01  <Lachie> my home folder is gone :o
11:11:04  * Lachie restars
11:11:07  <Lachie> restarts even
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11:23:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta: applied the patch to a working copy where you previously applied a yapp patch and reverted it?
11:23:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> that won't revert new files
11:23:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> so you have to manually delete them
11:23:42  <Brianetta> Eddi: Apparently so
11:23:55  <Brianetta> Rubidium posted as much
11:24:00  <Brianetta> and it's compiled (:
11:24:02  <Brianetta> thanks
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11:25:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> you can easily find out new files by grepping the .diff for "Revision 0"
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11:25:37  * Brianetta nods
11:26:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> except for yapp, wich is not an svn diff
11:27:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> there you have to search for /dev/null
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11:27:44  <Brianetta> well, svn status | egrep (\.cpp|\.h)
11:28:06  <Brianetta> that'll show you all changed c++ files, and it's easy to spot the new ones
11:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, but that might include new files from other patches ;)
11:28:18  <Rubidium> svn st src|grep '?'|xargs rm
11:28:28  <Brianetta> In my case, just one patch at a time
11:28:46  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Even better (:
11:28:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> ok, we agree that there are always multiple ways to do something [as long as there is any way at all]
11:30:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm...
11:30:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> C      src/elrail.cpp
11:30:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> i think i should tell SVN that i resolved that ;)
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11:34:08  <Yorick> remove the .mine files
11:35:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> Yorick: what do you think that would do?
11:35:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> [besides there aren't any]
11:35:42  <Yorick> tell svn you resolved the conflict
11:35:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think so :p
11:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> you tell svn that you resolved src/elrail.cpp conflict by saying "svn resolved src/elrail.cpp"
11:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> why would you do anything else?
11:38:57  <Yorick> also possible :)
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11:43:34  <KingJ> Whats the best way to "grow" a town? I've got the patch settings set on maximin, anything I need to do apart from a single well served station?
11:43:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> 5 well served stations
11:43:52  <DaleStan> Four more of same.
11:44:19  <KingJ> Okay, thanks
11:46:19  <Yexo> note that "well serviced" means at least one vehicle every 20 days, so 4 bus stops with a few busses should do fine
11:46:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Rubidium> svn st src|grep '?'|xargs rm <-- you might want to add an "awk '{ print  }'" in case you want to preserve any 1-letter-name files :p
11:47:27  <KingJ> Not based on cargo rating then?
11:48:26  <Yexo> for town growth: no, not based on cargo rating
11:48:30  <DaleStan> Hard to have a bad rating with a vehicle every 20 days, but no, it's not.
11:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, just vehicle...
11:49:10  <Yexo> DaleStan: it's not that hard if the station gets a lot of cargo, the rating will drop because of waiting cargo
11:49:32  <KingJ> Yeah, couple of busses in the centre of the city
11:49:59  <KingJ> Is there anything on the wiki listing what makes up the cargo performance rating? I couldn't find anything
11:50:13  <Yexo>
11:50:24  <Yexo> station rating = cargo performance rating
11:50:35  <KingJ> Ah, thanks
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12:23:41  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13735 /branches/0.6/ (12 files in 4 dirs): (log message trimmed)
12:23:43  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: [0.6] -Backport from trunk:
12:23:43  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: NewGRF rail continuation would always mark a tunnel on the same axis as connected, even when the tunnel faces the wrong direction (r13734)
12:23:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: - Fix: Assumption that non-north tiles of a house do not have the 1x1 building
12:23:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: bit set was flawed with some NewGRFs. This caused the amount of houses to
12:23:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: differ, which causes the town radii to differ, which causes desyncs when towns
12:23:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: are expanded (r13729)
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12:31:50  <Lachie> yew!
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12:39:36  <Celestar> TiberiusTeng: ccfreak2k what hardware are you running the stuff on?
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13:56:15  <fjb> Hello
13:56:21  <Yorick> hello
13:59:08  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13736 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_controller.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix (r13656): regression failing because the opcode counter wasn't properly reset.
14:00:24  <fjb> Is the noai branch already playable?
14:00:37  <glx> it always was
14:00:48  <Yexo> it's very playable :)
14:00:58  <Yexo> the one big missing thing is still rail support
14:01:02  <fjb> Hm, is it also patchable with yapp?
14:01:10  <Rubidium> actually... it's getting more unplayable over time
14:01:26  <Rubidium> because the AIs are getting better and better
14:01:28  <Yexo> fjb: yes, but you may have to merge some small pieces by hand
14:01:45  <fjb> Merging isn't a problem, usually.
14:01:53  <fjb> Better ai sounds good.
14:01:54  <Yexo> <Rubidium> because the AIs are getting better and better <- if that is your definition of unplayable I'd say it's already unplayable with road vehicles only
14:03:05  <fjb> The new ai (raod vehicles only) in trunk doesn't like the new eGRTV grf. It dumps core as soon as the ai buys the first road vehicle.
14:03:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13737 /branches/noai/ (132 files in 11 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13683:13734.
14:04:05  <glx> fjb: where is the bug report about it?
14:04:22  <Yorick> fjb: the new ai is experimental
14:04:37  <glx> but it shouldn't crash openttd
14:04:38  <Yorick> all bug reports should go to truebrain
14:04:53  <glx> no the text has changed some time ago
14:04:57  <fjb> Don't have to say anything beside that it crashes yet.
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14:05:41  <fjb> My os tells me something about a floating point error when it dumps core. Very starnge.
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14:06:36  <fjb> I will be away for about half an hour. I well see if I can find more about it then.
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14:10:16  <Yexo> fjb: strange, admiralai doesn't like the eGRTV set either, although it works fine with the LV grf
14:12:56  <Yexo> fjb: are you sure it's a bug in the AI? If I built an "ATP MGA Artic. Hopper Truck" it behaves strange too
14:13:12  <Yexo> it keeps switches between two orders in an infinite loop
14:13:16  <Yexo> that is without any AI
14:13:41  <ccfreak2k> Celestar, I ran my tests on an AMD Athlon XP 2500+ box with an AGP 8x ATi Radeon X850 XT PE.
14:13:56  <ccfreak2k> Using the fglrx driver.
14:14:07  <Yexo> so I suspect a bug in either eGRTV or in openttd newgrf handling, but not in the AI
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14:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> *note* when you try to build "multi-tile" depots, click the right depot to build the train in :p
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14:59:13  <Yorick> the python does not like me :(
15:00:16  <Lachie> python doesn't like me either.
15:00:22  <Lachie> or perl or ruby for that matter
15:00:28  <Lachie> or C/++/#
15:00:44  <Lachie> infact, the only thing reminiscent of a coding language that does seem to get along with me is NFO
15:01:03  <Yorick> I'm trying to unpack the payload of a PACKET_SERVER_ERROR_QUIT packet...
15:01:18  <Yorick> documentation says function should always return array...and it doesn't
15:02:17  <Lachie> I am hilariously cold
15:02:29  <Lachie> perhaps another jumper is in order.
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15:06:37  <Yorick> oh, I should blame documentation for returning the result of another function if certain arguments are given...which causes my array not to be multidimentional anymore
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15:16:43  <Celestar> ccfreak2k: weird, the X850 shouldn't be too different from a 9700
15:17:14  <ccfreak2k> The Radeon 9700 has an R350 or something like that.
15:17:18  <ccfreak2k> This one is an R450.
15:17:55  <ccfreak2k> Unless your 9700 is an XT, they're worlds different.
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15:20:19  <fjb> Yexo: The crash doesn't happen with the old ai.
15:20:52  <fjb> And the orders of road vehicles behave a bit strange sometimes, espacially depot orders.
15:20:58  <Yexo> If I built an "ATP MGA Artic. Hopper Truck" it behaves strange too
15:20:58  <Yexo> <Yexo> it keeps switches between two orders in an infinite loop
15:20:58  <Yexo> <Yexo> that is without any AI <- can you confirm this?
15:21:09  <Lachie> gotta love 48% wireless strength.
15:21:34  <fjb> Yexo: I have to try it.
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15:22:03  <Nioe> oooh its a ben
15:22:28  <ln> the small one
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15:22:32  <fjb> We are playing with bleeding edge stuff here. But it is fun.
15:23:49  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause2: Good point. Building in the wron depot already happened to me.
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15:39:30  <Yexo> <fjb> Yexo: I have to try it. <- did you test it?
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15:40:03  <fjb> Yexo: Not yet. I'm patching noai with YAPP at the moment.
15:40:10  <Yexo> ok :)
15:52:10  <fjb> I hope it will compile now.
15:53:28  <fjb> What will the people who get outperformed by the old ai do when the noai branch gets merged to trunk?
15:53:53  <Yorick> disable it
15:54:06  <fjb> Hm, ggod point.
15:54:12  <fjb> good
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15:55:35  <planetmaker> hello
15:56:34  <Yorick> hello
15:57:21  <Gekz> lol
15:57:26  <Gekz> old ai sucks
15:57:30  <Gekz> it doesnt outperform me
15:57:37  <Gekz> it just destroys the landscape
16:01:08  <fjb> Gekz: There are sometimes complaints at the forum about the old ai outperforming a player.
16:02:15  <fjb> Ok, the old ai outperformed me in my first game. I took a look into the manual then to find out what all the buttons in the game are for...
16:02:46  <SmatZ> yeah there are often angry players complaining that old AI is too hard
16:04:56  <SmatZ> maybe you should post there a post that AI is too weak
16:05:01  <SmatZ> people will admire you
16:05:09  <fjb> A look into the manual should help them. It never outperformed me after I knew what to do inthe game. The first game was merely clicking around out of curiousity.
16:05:23  <fjb> :-)
16:05:43  <SmatZ> when I first played TTO, I thought "competitors" are my friends helping my company
16:06:15  <fjb> Sometimes they do... At least you cal use  their roads.
16:06:53  <fjb> But I hate it when human players are putting an one way sign at any road tile.
16:10:33  <Eddi|zuHause2> <fjb> What will the people who get outperformed by the old ai do when the noai branch gets merged to trunk? <- there are difficulty settings, an AI should respect those
16:11:28  <fjb> My YAPP patched noai doesn't compile... make stops with nothing to do for "all" after compiling town_gui.cpp
16:11:34  <Yexo> there are difficulty settings, an AI should respect those <- that is worked on right now, but there will be settings per AI, not global settings
16:11:54  <Yorick> fjb: try removing your .d and .o files
16:12:10  <Yexo> fjb: do a make clean of even make mrproper && ./configure
16:12:47  <fjb> That was the first run of configure and make after a svn checkout.
16:13:17  <Yexo> hmm, strange
16:13:52  <Yexo> no idea one
16:13:57  <Yexo> *then
16:14:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> fjb: try without patch first :p
16:14:11  <Yorick> I think your source.list is corrupted
16:14:14  <fjb> Maybe the patch didn't like the different source.list.
16:14:15  <frosch123> fjb: maybe source.list conflicted
16:16:03  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13738 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai_squirrel.cpp fileio.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix (r13737): assert when a tar file doesn't contain a dir
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16:16:40  <fjb> source.list is ok.
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16:17:35  <fjb> There were two rejected files. But they compiled ok after i resolved the conflicts manually.
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16:18:53  <Yorick> are you sure there was nothing with source list after town_gui.cpp?
16:20:47  <fjb> frosch123: What is make trying to say me: Die Datei »/home/frank/devel/OpenTTD-r13737noaiyapp/src/train_cmd.cpp« wird "gestutzt" (der AbhÀngigkeitsgraph).
16:21:53  <glx> file created in the future?
16:21:58  <fjb> Oh, ok I found it.
16:22:11  <fjb> Yes, user error.... :-)
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16:22:33  <frosch123> very nice translation, you can translate it back to english word by word, and then it makes sense :p
16:23:12  <glx> it usually happen to me when I extract a tar file
16:24:09  <fjb> Never delete the wrong file...
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16:56:48  <Sacro> yep
17:14:34  <fjb> It compiled. .-)
17:15:50  <fjb> What do i have to do now? Download some ais from the forum and put the tar archives ito the ai folder?
17:20:32  <Yexo> yep
17:20:43  <Yexo> I suggest to start with convoy / admiralai / wrightai
17:22:08  <fjb> Ok, I already fond that three.
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17:22:53  <Yexo> You can start an ai with the console command start_ai ai_name, if not they will be started randomly (depend on your difficulty settings of course)
17:23:48  <fjb> Randomly sounds interesting.
17:24:05  <Yorick> or just start_ai
17:28:04  <Yorick> I wonder how openttd does the leave thing...
17:28:25  <Yexo> what leave thing?
17:28:38  <Yorick> sending the leaving packet -> quitting the game
17:28:54  <Yorick> quitting the game instantly results in a connection lost
17:29:29  <Yorick> quitting the game after you see your own quit message gives you a recv failed with 10024
17:29:53  <fjb> Do the noai ias only work with the original vehicles?
17:30:00  <Yorick> depends
17:30:04  <Yorick> some of them do
17:30:10  <Yorick> some of them use EngineLists
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17:31:09  <Yexo> most of them work with ok with new vehicles
17:31:25  <Yexo> there are a few that don't refit a vehicle when needed
17:32:11  <Yexo> although eGRTV does behave strange, but it does that also when I built a vehicle manually
17:32:16  <fjb> Hm, they don't build anything.
17:32:37  <Yexo> watch the ai debut panel (under the question mark)
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17:33:32  <fjb> Oh, one build something.
17:34:20  <Yexo> it depends on the difficulty setting opponent_building_speed or so how fast they build
17:34:52  <hylje> openttd r13734 on Ubuntu, built from checkout, viewport doesn't expand properly when maximise button is pressed
17:35:05  <hylje> (stretching the window works fine)
17:35:28  <SmatZ> hylje: I miss the Maximise window in Gentoo/KDE :-P
17:35:52  <SmatZ> *Maximise button
17:35:56  <SmatZ> for OTTD
17:36:09  <SmatZ> nah now it is back
17:36:25  <SmatZ> strange
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17:41:49  <hylje> i can haul tourists in tanker wagons
17:42:31  <Yexo> the tourists won't like that :p
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17:43:18  <fjb> Tourists like almost anything they have to pay for.
17:43:36  <frosch123> like diving
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17:55:28  <fjb> terminate called after throwing an instance of 'OTTDThreadExitSignal'
17:56:13  <Yexo> fjb: You've hit one of the threading bugs in NoAI
17:56:29  <Yexo> what did you do to get that message?
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17:57:50  <fjb> Just start some ais and then pressed the fast forward button. After some time that happens.
17:58:22  <Yexo> that's new
17:58:53  <Yexo> it's known that NoAI can crash upon exiting an AI (so closing a game, game exit etc.)
18:00:03  <fjb> Maybe that was the cause. Most ais didn't build anything and reveived financial warnings. Maybe one got closed.
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18:00:14  <Yexo> ah, that could be the case
18:00:30  <Yexo> what AIs did you use?
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18:01:59  <fjb> The ais you told me to try, wright, admiral and convoy.
18:02:41  <Yexo> I find  it strange those get in financial trouble, but it could happen of course
18:03:24  <Yorick> have you set the loan amount?
18:04:30  <fjb> Hm, don't think so. Where is that set? Game difficulty?
18:04:44  <Yexo> yep, difficulty
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18:07:45  <fjb> 100000£
18:09:47  <Yexo> that's not enough for wrigthai
18:09:58  <Yexo> not sure about convoy, but admiralai should be ok
18:10:00  <fjb> How much does it need?
18:10:14  <Yexo> more than 100.000, 150.000 should be enough ;)
18:10:17  <fjb> Admiral was the only one building something.
18:10:19  <Yexo> but the more the better
18:12:10  <nicfer> what would be better, industries like cities or cities like industries?
18:13:06  <Yexo> I don't think either option is any good, but why do you ask?
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18:14:04  <Yexo> fjb: oh, and wrightai doesn't terraform, so if you're playing on a mountanious map it might quit because it couldn't find a place for it's first airport
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18:15:19  <fjb> Oh, I'm playing in hills, but with very smoot slopes.
18:17:15  <fjb> next try with 200000£ initian loan.
18:18:01  <nicfer> I think that making industries like houses will allow them to be more flexible
18:18:18  <Yexo> in what way will they be more flexible?
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18:19:21  <nicfer> for example, you can destroy a single tile without destroying the whole industry
18:20:22  <Yorick> houses get destroyed if you destroy one tile of them...
18:20:24  <Yexo> you can't destroy industries at all right now, and that's fine by me
18:21:18  <Yexo> and that's like saying you want to destroy the runways of an airport but keep the airport intact: useless
18:21:57  <hylje> nicfer: you mean industries like cities
18:22:50  <hylje> if industry likes one enough, one can get away with moving (demolishing) its modules (houses) out of way
18:23:51  <nicfer> the industry will only reduce it's production
18:24:51  <nicfer> also, industries aren't built in the middle of nothing
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18:25:13  <nicfer> they're near cities
18:25:39  <hylje> placement is one thing
18:25:45  <hylje> city-like behaviour another
18:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause2> placement can be done with newgrf... PBI has requirements like "must be within 10 tiles of town with at least 100 population"
18:29:43  <Eddi|zuHause2> meaning secondary industries are pretty much never in the middle of nowhere
18:29:50  <Yorick> but it is wrong
18:30:04  <Vikthor> gah, I made bug in bug-report :(
18:30:14  <Yorick> it would better be townpop/10 tiles of town with at least 100 population
18:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i got into that kind of trouble when i wanted to found a food processing plant near my cargo station
18:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> it was too far from the town itself
18:30:46  <frosch123> and if that is not enough, ECS has requirements like "must be within 10 tiles of town with at least 100 population, and within 3 tiles of water and not near any industry of the same type"
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18:31:35  <Yorick> some require sloped land, within 3 tiles of desert
18:31:56  <Yorick> nowhere near a town with at least 0 population
18:32:55  <fjb> Wrightai gives up after building the first route failed.. :-(
18:33:17  <fjb> And when it goes bankrupt the game crashes.
18:33:27  <Yorick> fjb: it gives up...
18:33:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Yorick> it would better be townpop/10 tiles of town with at least 100 population <- i think what it really does is "count population within a 10 tile radius"
18:33:50  <Yexo> fjb: then either use a flatter map or don't use wrightai
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18:34:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> because i can build it quite far from the center of my 26k town, just around the cargo station there are no houses
18:34:06  <Yexo> anpai is another plane ai that does approx as good as wrightai
18:34:11  <fjb> How can I exclude wrightai?
18:34:23  <Yexo> remove the dir from bin/ai
18:34:38  <fjb> Ok, thought there would be a smarter way.
18:34:43  <Yexo> or rename ai/wrightai/info.nut
18:35:00  <Eddi|zuHause2> or start 8 other AIs ;)
18:35:11  <Yexo> Eddi|zuHause2: 7 is enough, as you are a company yourself :)
18:35:11  <fjb> Convoy also never builds anything.
18:35:29  <Yexo> fjb: what does the ai debug panel say? (found under the question mark ingame)
18:35:30  <Yorick> fjb: what kind of towns do you have
18:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause2> i think if this weather goes on i am "within 3 tiles of water" soon :p
18:35:59  <Yorick> same here
18:36:04  <fjb> Debug information is gone with the crash. have to start a new game to tell you.
18:36:28  <fjb> How do you mean what kind of towns?
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18:36:59  <Yexo> fjb: what operating system do you use?
18:37:00  <Yorick> near to eachother, big?
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18:37:30  <fjb> Normal town density.
18:37:41  <Yexo> should be fine
18:39:17  <fjb> OS is FreeBSD. Compiler is gcc 3.4.6
18:45:21  <nicfer> one question, can road NoAIs build one-way signs?
18:48:20  <Yexo> they can't
18:48:31  <Yexo> and they can't handle one-way signs build by the user either
18:48:41  <Yexo> so don't build them or expect the AIs to fail
18:49:10  <planetmaker> Yexo: you give me a brilliant idea :P
18:49:22  <fjb> Wrightai says: Couldn't build the aircraft. I'm using av8.
18:49:40  <Yexo> planetmaker: If you do, I'm going to patch the server to disallow one-way sign building :p
18:50:03  <planetmaker> cheatahh ! ;)
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18:51:08  <planetmaker> Yexo: how does it cope with rivers?
18:51:21  <Yexo> no idea, you'll have to try that
18:51:31  <Yexo> but it should be a problem, as it can cope with canals and see
18:52:04  <Yexo> *not be a problem :)
18:52:11  <planetmaker> :)
18:52:50  <planetmaker> I wondered. Because I tried today in the SE to have town with a river inside: place river, then place town.
18:52:50  <tom0004> one question, when did, Steel mills accept passengers ?
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18:53:04  <planetmaker> For the town the river is an obstacle which cannot even be bridged :)
18:53:14  <planetmaker> tom0004: since ever. TTO
18:53:26  <Yexo> well, I'd consider that as a bug in trunk (or unimplemented feature)
18:53:43  <planetmaker> I guess unimplemented. Rivers are too new :P
18:53:45  <Yexo> planetmaker: I would guess a town doesn't bridge canals either
18:53:58  <planetmaker> probably. Didn't try that
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18:54:59  <planetmaker> hm... just assuming the SE generated rivers - should they be generated before or after towns?
18:55:14  <Yexo> before, or towns might get flooded
18:55:28  <Yorick> I think towns should be able to bridge them
18:55:31  <planetmaker> come to think of it: no towns next to rivers, if after...
18:55:40  <planetmaker> rivers don't flood... so far
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18:56:05  <planetmaker> and it's easy to ask whether a tile is a house or not.
18:56:17  <Yexo> planetmaker: flooded as in, what do you do when you generate a river through a town?
18:56:37  <planetmaker> Yexo: so far: I just don't do that as houses are a nono-area
18:57:05  <Yexo> in that case you might get some strange rivers around towns
18:57:17  <Yexo> so I still think it's better to do rivers before towns
18:57:26  <planetmaker> yeah :) and yeah
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18:58:38  <tom0004> oh well, i'll leave it then
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19:06:40  <Tyler_Bishop> hey is any one here using the latest dev?
19:07:02  <fjb> We are all using the devs. :-)
19:07:03  <Yorick> latest dev?
19:07:20  <Tyler_Bishop> hehe, is there a problem with the company list in multiplayer
19:07:24  <SmatZ> I think frosch123 is the latest dev
19:07:35  <Yorick> hehe
19:07:37  <Tyler_Bishop> it selects them all when trying to select
19:07:53  <Yorick> Rubidium: ^^
19:07:58  <Tyler_Bishop> r137433
19:08:03  <Tyler_Bishop> err
19:08:15  <Tyler_Bishop> r13734
19:08:17  <SmatZ> how?
19:08:31  <Tyler_Bishop> create a multiplayer game
19:08:36  <Tyler_Bishop> open ttd again
19:08:37  <SmatZ> hmm yeah I see
19:08:42  <Tyler_Bishop> connect make a new company
19:08:53  <Tyler_Bishop> u cant select the companys :(
19:09:01  <Tyler_Bishop> i like the new multiplayer window in this latest one
19:09:28  <Tyler_Bishop> bugs
19:10:06  <Tyler_Bishop> i like all the features of the later releases, wish there was a stable dev build lol
19:11:50  <Tyler_Bishop> SmatZ:  do you see what im talking about
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19:12:06  <SmatZ> Tyler_Bishop: yeah
19:12:12  <SmatZ> and all companies have the same name
19:12:17  <Tyler_Bishop> yeA
19:12:35  <Tyler_Bishop> any ideas on a quick fix?
19:12:51  <SmatZ> no
19:12:57  <Yorick> join serverip#company:serverport
19:12:59  <Yorick> from console
19:13:10  <Tyler_Bishop> :)
19:14:10  <planetmaker> sounds like being introduced with making the players a pool a few revs ago...
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19:14:50  <Tyler_Bishop> hehe
19:15:01  <Tyler_Bishop> is it a known bug
19:16:53  <Yorick> nope
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19:17:24  <Yorick> planetmaker: and thát sounds like more-companies being included in trunk
19:17:35  <glx> Yorick: no
19:17:42  <Yorick> :(
19:17:47  <Vikthor> Tyler_Bishop: It depends, what you take as known, I reported that about a hour ago
19:18:01  <Tyler_Bishop> :)
19:18:13  <planetmaker> Yorick: not sure... reason was some bug for cleaning old companies... - but maybe
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19:18:18  <SmatZ> planetmaker: indeed, introduced in r13731
19:18:28  <planetmaker> :)
19:18:39  <Tyler_Bishop> is there any where i can get a copy of r13730
19:18:43  <glx> Vikthor: status changed ;)
19:18:52  <planetmaker> svn co svn://
19:19:01  <planetmaker> svn co svn:// -r 13730
19:19:09  <Yorick> ./configure && make
19:19:16  <Tyler_Bishop> if only i was on a linux machine :P
19:19:20  <Yorick> no
19:19:21  <SmatZ> or get older nightly :-P
19:19:24  <Yorick> I'm doing that on windows
19:19:25  <planetmaker> works on my Mac :P
19:19:34  <SmatZ> hehe
19:19:51  <Ammler> Tyler_Bishop: BOTTD
19:20:11  <planetmaker> ^
19:20:40  <Tyler_Bishop> got it, turtoise :D
19:20:50  <Ammler> Tyler_Bishop: BOTTD is better
19:21:02  <Tyler_Bishop> hehe, i know how to use this haha
19:21:12  <glx> BOTTD comes with a full working dev env
19:21:27  <Tyler_Bishop> whats that mean to me :p
19:21:31  <Ammler> you have then a little gree unix with it (mingw)
19:21:41  <glx> the only problem is BOTTD itself doesn't work on vista
19:21:47  <Tyler_Bishop> damn, now how to i compile this for windows
19:21:56  <Ammler> glx: bottd or mingw?
19:22:04  <glx> botts
19:22:08  <glx> mingw works
19:22:49  <Ammler> bottd is os, did nobody fix that yet?
19:23:07  <Tyler_Bishop> i need visual studio installed to compile this correct?
19:23:16  <glx> Tyler_Bishop: no
19:23:23  <Tyler_Bishop> :/
19:23:30  <Tyler_Bishop> o
19:23:32  <Tyler_Bishop> mingw
19:23:47  <glx> but visual studio works too
19:24:16  <glx> I use mingw, 2005 express and 2008 express
19:24:31  <Tyler_Bishop> how about mingw 5.1.4
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19:24:55  <glx> you need mingw and msys
19:24:56  <Yorick> glx: bottd does
19:25:11  <glx> bottd installs mingw and msys
19:26:02  <Tyler_Bishop> ive never compiled a program before
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19:26:07  <Tyler_Bishop> well, on windows
19:26:08  <Zuu> Tyler_Bishop: Why not just use last working nightly or is there something special that have hapened between that and now?
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19:26:22  <Tyler_Bishop> zuu, multiplayer is hammed
19:26:39  <Zuu> Yea, that's why I sad last working and not just last.
19:26:53  <Tyler_Bishop> is there a pre-compiled last working available?
19:27:05  <Zuu> They stay on the server quite long.
19:27:24  <Tyler_Bishop> eh?
19:27:30  <Tyler_Bishop> link please sir
19:28:12  <Yorick>
19:28:17  <Zuu>
19:28:27  <Tyler_Bishop> oh nice :D
19:28:52  <Zuu> Way back from second may it seams.
19:29:12  <Tyler_Bishop> april to lol
19:29:22  <Tyler_Bishop> gona try r13718
19:29:29  <Ammler> don't you want the detailed server infos?
19:29:54  <Eoin> 13734 works for me
19:30:10  <Tyler_Bishop> multiplayer company list works?
19:30:15  <Eoin> errr
19:30:17  <Eoin> lemme see
19:30:25  <Tyler_Bishop> make 2 companys
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19:31:28  <Zuu> Dihedral Auto Nightly server uses 13734 it seams, but maybe you are going to host yourself?
19:31:31  <Tyler_Bishop> 13718 looks good to far
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19:31:47  <Tyler_Bishop> yeah, i host my own game with friends
19:31:55  <DJNekkid> Forked: :)
19:32:11  <Tyler_Bishop> yeah 13718 looks good :)
19:32:20  <Eoin> BOTTD fails for me
19:32:23  <Eoin> svn: Failed to add file 'trunk\': object of the same name already exists
19:32:59  <Yorick> remove that file
19:33:03  <Yorick> ;)
19:33:11  <Eoin> But i dont know where it is xD
19:33:17  <glx> you used it on a non svn dir?
19:33:27  <Eoin> i just done it to desktop/ottd
19:33:38  <Tyler_Bishop> damit creating a new vehicle in this version is broke :(
19:35:23  <Yorick> what?
19:35:37  <Tyler_Bishop> in 13718 creating a veh crashes it
19:35:59  <Yorick> :o
19:36:21  <planetmaker> o_O
19:37:34  <Yorick> just try that join console command
19:37:53  <Tyler_Bishop> yea that wrks
19:37:59  <Tyler_Bishop> ysy
19:38:04  <Tyler_Bishop> 13706 is a winner
19:40:25  <Forked> DJNekkid: heya... and I'm off again :)
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19:53:06  <Tyler_Bishop> this game is addicting
19:54:21  <fjb> noai crashes everytime an ai becomes bankrupt.
19:54:43  <SmatZ> oh noes another crash :-/
19:55:05  <Yexo> fjb: known bug
19:55:20  <fjb> Is there a workaround?
19:55:34  <Yexo> only use AIs that don't go bankrupt :)
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19:56:35  <fjb> I try...
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20:08:40  <Forked> mmm vacation .. have a great one, good people
20:09:07  <SmatZ> you too, Forked
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20:24:12  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13739 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Fix (r13731): some variables would be erroneously zeroed, causing autoclean and company passwords not to work.
20:24:50  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13740 /trunk/src/network/network_client.cpp: -Fix (r13731): one could only join the first company.
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20:37:07  <Mark> hello
20:37:42  <Mark> i got a little problem; in the scenario editor i want to "fund many industries" but the "build" option is grayed out
20:37:48  <Mark> anyone knows what to do with that?
20:37:54  <Mark> or is it just not possible for some reason?
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20:48:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> do you have a town?
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20:49:31  <Mark> yes i do
20:50:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> then i don't know...
20:50:41  <Mark> i'll try with today's nightly
20:51:46  <SmatZ> Mark: do you have set "Patches - Economy - Industries" to None ?
20:52:15  <SmatZ> mmm it is not in Patches...
20:52:31  <Mark> it's in difficulty
20:52:34  <Mark> and yes, it's set to none
20:52:38  <SmatZ> ha
20:52:39  <SmatZ> :)
20:52:43  <Mark> but i thought that wouldn't be a problem ;)
20:52:46  <Mark> i'll try again
20:53:44  <Mark> yep, that's it
20:53:47  <Mark> thanks SmatZ
20:54:34  <SmatZ> you are welcome :)
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21:17:52  <HeadBeng0r> !password
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21:37:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> wow... we didn't have that in quite a long time...
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21:50:40  <ln> @seen Bjarni
21:50:41  <DorpsGek> ln: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 3 days, 1 hour, 42 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I didn't have any
21:51:04  *** stillunknown [] has joined #openttd
21:51:07  <Sacro> he must have got lost while looking for them
21:54:49  <ln> i hope they have some in denmark
21:55:05  <Zuu> Is it just my ISP or is down?
21:55:25  <ln> your isp
21:55:34  <ln> or your government
21:55:34  <Zuu> thanks :)
21:55:40  <Zuu> Hehe :p
21:55:45  <yawn> yep, fine here
21:56:09  <Zuu> Ah, that citience, he only play OpenTTD all the time. To dangerous, we must block him from ;)
21:56:15  <SmatZ> Zuu does this work?
21:56:25  <SmatZ> hehe
21:56:32  <Zuu> SmatZ: Yep
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21:56:44  <Zuu> But now also work :)
21:56:53  <SmatZ> :)
21:58:58  <Zuu> And now fail again but the IP works. I should probably force my router to use a better DNS than the one my ISP provides.
21:59:27  <Zuu> Have been iusses with sites going down 5 minutes every now and then.
22:04:27  <orudge> hmm, well, the DNS change was a good few days ago now
22:04:31  *** Leif_ [] has joined #openttd
22:04:32  <orudge> Wednesday, I think
22:04:36  <orudge> so you'd have hoped it would update by now
22:05:01  *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
22:05:47  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13741 /branches/noai/ [NoAI] -Fix: unused tag
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22:13:06  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13742 /branches/noai/config.lib: [NoAI] -Fix: fix most of the Squirrel problems by disabling the garbage collector .. go figure!
22:16:51  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13743 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: AI_Uninitialize asserted when Player-pool wasn't initialized .. bypass it
22:21:55  *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
22:22:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13744 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_info.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix: smallest commit ever
22:23:07  <Yexo> fjb: The latest svn version of NoAI should have fixed the crahsed you had when an AI goes bankrupt
22:23:13  <Yexo> could you please confirm this?
22:23:20  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13745 /branches/noai/src/ (genworld_gui.cpp openttd.cpp): [NoAI] -Change: move '_settings_game = _settings_newgame;' to a small functions, so additions later on are easier, while keeping it simple to backport things to trunk
22:24:18  <Eddi|zuHause2>,%2026.%20Feb%201934.png <- enough trains now? :p
22:24:48  <fjb> Yexo: It is not fixed in r13738
22:25:18  <Yexo> fjb: I was talking about commit 13742 :)
22:25:21  <fjb> Did r13743 fix it?
22:25:36  <fjb> Ok, I will try that
22:25:41  <Yexo> thx :)
22:26:07  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13746 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai.cpp ai_squirrel.cpp ai_squirrel.hpp): [NoAI] -Change: rename SelectAI to FindAI (makes more sense, even more later on)
22:27:21  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13747 /branches/noai/projects/ (4 files): [NoAI] -Fix (r13742): disable squirrel garbage collector for MSVC too
22:31:25  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13748 /branches/noai/src/ai/ (ai_info.cpp ai_info.hpp ai_squirrel.cpp): [NoAI] -Change: redirected some internals to allow extending of a few entries later on
22:32:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> two farms, two coal mines and two forests near that city, and all local cargo trains gather at this station to transfer to long distance cargo trains
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22:51:45  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13749 /branches/noai/src/ (5 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Change: move AIController and AIInfo into the Player-struct
22:53:23  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13750 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai.cpp: [NoAI] -Change: _ai_enabled was always true for its point of usage
22:58:55  <ln> whose home-compiled OpenTTD has icon when ran from the build directory?
23:02:42  <Yexo> mine has
23:03:52  <ln> platform?
23:04:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> some of mine have, others not
23:04:58  <ln> mine is trying to open media/openttd.32.bmp, but that fails because the cwd is bin.
23:05:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> symlink ;)
23:05:49  <Yexo> start from the upper directory with bin/openttd :)
23:05:50  *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:06:03  <fjb> Yexo: r13749-noai: terminate called after throwing an instance of 'OTTDThreadExitSignal'
23:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> lrwxrwxrwx 1 johannes users 9 24. Mai 2007  bin/media -> ../media/
23:07:06  <Yexo> fjb: can you maybe join #openttd.noai? then I won't have to copy those messages for TrueBrain :)
23:07:09  <ln> Yexo: that's what i'm doing, but it's still bin despite that.
23:07:14  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... timing two trains on a single track line is really nontrivial
23:07:39  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause2: orly?
23:07:42  *** rortom [] has joined #openttd
23:07:54  <Eddi|zuHause2> Sacro: yarly!
23:08:04  <ln> Eddi|zuHause2: i know symlinks, but d'ogh, shouldn't some Makefile or something create those if necessary. or shouldn't the symlinks be in svn.
23:08:10  *** bleepy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> ln: i wondered that myself
23:11:05  *** Tim [] has joined #openttd
23:11:27  <Tim> Hello together... How exactly is the NoAI channel called?
23:11:30  <Tim> !help
23:11:51  <rortom> mh what does noai stand for btw?
23:12:08  *** fjb_ [] has joined #openttd
23:12:12  <Tim> It's the new Artifical Intelligence...
23:12:18  <Rubidium> Tim: #openttd.noai
23:12:24  <Tim> Dunno why it is called "NO"-ai, kinda confusing :D
23:12:24  <Tim> thjx
23:12:25  <Rubidium> rortom: No AI
23:12:45  <Rubidium> as there was No AI at some point
23:13:01  <Rubidium> or whatever you can construct from that acronym
23:14:31  <ln> Rubidium: what do you say about the icon thing?
23:14:57  <Rubidium> use full screen?
23:15:42  <Sacro> thou shalt have no false icons
23:15:48  <Rubidium> it requires partial install on make to get working in all cases
23:16:20  <rortom> openttd just crashed my server :/
23:16:55  <Rubidium> rortom: sucky OS
23:17:05  <Rubidium> openttd shouldn't crash an OS
23:17:07  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:17:20  <ln> Rubidium: full screen is not an option as long as SDL doesn't support fullscreen without changing video mode and keeping the mouse to itself.
23:17:22  <rortom> Rubidium: agreed, just a cheap linux host
23:17:36  <rortom> but still strange
23:17:45  <rortom> i think mem full or such
23:17:53  <Rubidium> that shouldn't crash an OS
23:18:04  <rortom> oh, ottd kept running :)
23:18:08  <rortom> just no ssh anymore ;)
23:18:50  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
23:19:28  <rortom> where can i checkout the noAI branch?
23:19:39  <rortom> i seem to stupid to find a valid URL
23:20:00  <Rubidium> /branches/noai
23:20:17  <rortom> thanks :)
23:20:55  <Sacro> rortom: too
23:22:12  <rortom> mh
23:22:16  <rortom> you know premake?
23:22:52  <Rubidium> nope
23:23:19  <rortom> its a nice too to generate build system files cross-platform
23:23:27  <rortom> so just write a premake script thing
23:23:44  <rortom> and that will generate a make file under linux and any windows VS-build sys
23:23:59  <rortom> just FYI :)
23:24:14  <rortom>
23:24:32  <Rubidium> I doubt it'll support everything we need to keep OpenTTD cross-compilable
23:24:45  <rortom> mh what could it be?
23:24:48  * Lachie wakes up
23:24:50  <rortom> flags?
23:24:54  <rortom> links?
23:24:56  <rortom> options?
23:25:03  <Rubidium> nasty hacks for calling gcc
23:25:13  <rortom> ouch
23:25:27  <rortom> we use it a lot and it proved really helpful for us
23:27:34  <Rubidium> doesn't seem to do osx application bundle stuff either
23:28:22  <rortom> that could be
23:28:39  <rortom> we just use it to sync linux and windows build systems
23:28:53  <Rubidium> got a script to do that
23:28:59  <rortom> yes, saw that :)
23:29:08  <rortom> as said, just FYI :)
23:29:18  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: glx * r13751 /branches/noai/ (10 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: add support for 'adjacent stations', ie allow stations directly adjacent to other stations. Sorry, all AI will need an update (slap Yexo for that, as he could have requested it sooner)
23:29:19  <rortom> i think your custom script does it well :)
23:30:49  <rortom> oh, and btw
23:31:08  <rortom> please add version tagging for the settings directory under windows XP
23:31:20  <rortom> i get problems when using different versions ...
23:31:32  <rortom> in "my documents" ...
23:32:19  <glx> rortom: just put an openttd.cfg in each version
23:32:25  <Wolf01> 'night
23:32:28  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
23:32:30  <Rubidium> rortom: and how do you expect that to work?
23:32:42  <Rubidium> create a new .cfg for each revision of OpenTTD?
23:34:22  <rortom> no
23:34:36  <rortom> we have to face that problem with RoR also
23:34:38  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
23:34:43  <rortom> and im not sure how to face it either
23:34:55  <glx> what problem exactly?
23:35:10  <rortom> saving files in mydocuments
23:35:14  <rortom> and config files
23:35:31  <rortom> OpenTTD-0.6.2 could work
23:35:54  <rortom> mh is the new noai enabled by default?
23:36:06  <glx> I don't want to put the ttd files in many places
23:36:11  <Sacro> XML!
23:36:41  <glx> there are no AI in noai
23:37:22  *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
23:37:27  <rortom> haha, makes sense
23:37:38  <rortom> so whats in there if no ai?
23:37:43  <rortom> just stripped version?
23:38:00  <Tefad> noai is an API set
23:38:01  <Yexo> a framework to allow AIs :)
23:38:04  <Rubidium> an API + scripting language so you can write AIs
23:38:11  <rortom> ah :D
23:38:18  <rortom> now that makes more sense :)
23:38:28  <Tefad> is it not lua? i forget
23:38:35  <glx> squirrel
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23:39:55  *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
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23:40:53  <rortom> at least you dont have to code 3d stuff in openttd :\
23:41:05  <rortom> makes me some headcaches sometimes
23:41:18  <glx> hehe
23:41:18  <Rubidium> are you sure?
23:41:42  <Rubidium> bounding boxes for drawing are really 3d boxes
23:41:49  <rortom> oh, indeed :)
23:42:13  <rortom> but i am about to write a tire trace class
23:42:29  <rortom> that generates a 3d mesh out of a triangle strip :/
23:42:36  <glx> for burns?
23:42:39  <rortom> yes
23:42:42  <glx> cool
23:43:01  <rortom> bit complicated to get it working the correct way
23:43:11  <glx> btw TNT explosion effects is weird
23:43:34  <rortom> in RoR?
23:43:38  <glx> yes
23:43:43  <rortom> its no tnt
23:43:53  <rortom> its just a 'bug' found by users :)
23:44:15  <rortom> the physical model tends to explode when there are certain conditions
23:44:36  <glx> I mean the explosive crates
23:44:43  <rortom> i mean those also :)
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23:45:00  <glx> anyway it's weird (and unrealistic ;) )
23:45:13  <rortom> yes, its not intended at all... ;)
23:45:41  <rortom> mh im working with boost atm
23:45:56  <rortom> nice lib, especially the boost::python
23:47:19  *** fmauNeko is now known as fmauNekAway
23:49:15  *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
23:50:12  <rortom> connect_to_ip =
23:50:19  <rortom> is it valid to give a port?
23:50:48  <glx> yes
23:50:53  <rortom> thanks
23:51:02  <rortom> mhm also
23:51:14  <rortom> autoclean_companies = true
23:51:19  <rortom> autoclean_unprotected = 12
23:51:23  <rortom> autoclean_protected = -1
23:51:31  <rortom> ->only clean unprotected?
23:51:45  <rortom> would be handy to have
23:52:21  <glx> Max value - 256 months ~ 21 game years.
23:52:32  <rortom> yes
23:52:35  <rortom> used that
23:52:57  <rortom> and pw-protected companies still timed out
23:53:04  <glx> then the password is removed
23:53:27  <rortom> ah, and then removed i guess?
23:53:39  <rortom> i think more control over that would be nice to have :)
23:53:55  <glx> when autoclean_unprotected triggers yes
23:54:05  <glx> but use also min_players
23:54:18  <glx> so the game is paused when there are no players
23:54:28  <rortom> good point
23:54:52  <glx>
23:54:55  <rortom> so the autopilot is kinda useless?
23:55:02  <rortom> as it also pauses the game?
23:56:01  <glx> autopilot can still be used to log stuff
23:56:06  <rortom> sure
23:56:15  <rortom> but the pause function is redundant then
23:56:38  <glx> it was only in autopilot before we added it in openttd ;)
23:56:39  <rortom> also, my ottd bot is kinda working :)
23:56:48  <rortom> hehe, nice :)
23:57:28  <Lachie> autopilot refused to install on my server when i tried
23:57:31  <Lachie> lol
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23:57:41  <Lachie> actually no
23:57:51  <Lachie> I believe it installed, but wouldn't start the game
23:57:59  <rortom> :|
23:58:07  <rortom> added the configs?
23:58:14  <Lachie> no clue
23:58:16  <Lachie> it was ages ago
23:58:17  <rortom> ;)
23:58:35  <Lachie> and it was my admin doing the work lol
23:59:00  <glx> linux or windows?
23:59:17  <Lachie> linux I believe
23:59:23  <Lachie> but as I said, it was ages ago, doesn't matter now

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