Log for #openttd on 3rd August 2008:
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00:00:52  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r13969 /branches/noai/ (128 files in 12 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r13876:13968.
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00:32:43  <Brianetta> Standard is playable.
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02:18:58  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r13970 /trunk/src/ (network/network_gui.cpp toolbar_gui.cpp widgets/dropdown.cpp):
02:18:58  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: Replace numbers with Colours enum on network, toolbar and dropdown guis.
02:18:58  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: Mostly forgotten ones.
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05:24:56  <Celestar> \o
05:25:08  <Gekz_> \_x<
05:26:54  <Celestar> YAPP has been trunkified?
05:26:55  <Celestar> :o
05:27:00  <Gekz_> :o
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05:34:16  <Celestar> a w e s o m e
05:34:17  <Celestar> (=
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05:53:56  <Celestar> heh who's good with mercurial here? :)
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06:02:21  <Lachie> I'm good with a knife
06:02:27  <Lachie> will that help?
06:05:34  <Celestar> :P
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06:32:42  <Wolf01> hello
06:36:32  <Wolf01> nice, I found a bug in the rss feed of HG
06:37:39  <Wolf01> feeds work, but if I click on "open openttd/trunk.hg changelog" it opens this: http://localhost:8082/hg/openttd/trunk.hg/
06:37:53  <Wolf01> (I use firefox 3)
06:38:35  <Wolf01> uhm, feeds doesn't work too
06:38:41  <Wolf01> strange
06:38:49  <Wolf01> Yesterday worked
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06:40:18  <Bjarni> wrong button
06:40:26  <Bjarni> I was supposed to shut down and leave :s
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06:40:40  <Gekz> lol
06:40:57  <Celestar> muhah
06:41:52  <Wolf01> ahah
06:43:51  <Wolf01> uhm, yesterday I didn't really tried to click on the feeds, like 2 days ago... I only updated the feeds with the new urls
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07:15:35  <Celestar> peter1138: you already awake?
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07:22:02  <Alberth> Too bad you cannot get a negative answer
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07:25:37  <Celestar> TIMEOUT
07:25:38  <Celestar> :P
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07:36:15  <Tekky> Hi everyone. I am so happy that YAPP is now in trunk. :-)
07:36:46  <peter1138> Damn!
07:39:21  <Tekky> Hehe, "damn"? Don't you like YAPP? Or are you afraid of the added maintenance of the codebase after an addition as large as YAPP?
07:39:52  <hylje> he's unhappy because people like the new toy
07:40:04  <Tekky> hehe, why that?
07:40:09  <hylje> no idea
07:40:34  <Tekky> Some people can only be happy when others are unhappy, I guess. :)
07:41:14  <peter1138> Tekky, no, he did it just after I went to bed :p
07:41:14  <Celestar> peter1138: hi :D
07:41:18  <Celestar> peter1138: what's damn?
07:42:58  <Alberth> peter1138: He didn't want to deprive you of your sleep :P
07:44:21  <Celestar> peter1138: do how do we merge with trunk ?
07:44:34  <hylje> create a big diff
07:44:39  <hylje> or a series thereof
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07:47:08  <peter1138> I'm doing it.
07:47:19  <Celestar> peter1138: I've made some changes as well
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07:48:26  <hylje> later on you might want to consider making something that allows outright pushing to svn.
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07:51:28  <peter1138> Hmm, that's bollocks that up :p
07:55:43  <peter1138> hylje: syncing, not merging, heh...
07:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> same difference :p
07:57:01  <Celestar> Blast
07:57:12  <Celestar> autoreplace segfaults cargodest :P
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07:57:26  <Rubidium> Celestar: autoreplace segfaults everything...
07:58:04  <Celestar> :P
07:58:14  <Celestar> peter1138: refit orders work nicely with the routing network
07:58:18  <Celestar> peter1138: conditional orders do not
07:59:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> the only way i can imagine handling of conditional orders would be nondetermistic jumps
07:59:54  <peter1138> I never use conditional orders ;)
08:00:00  <hylje> would that break the little elegancy left?
08:00:20  <Celestar> MH
08:00:23  <peter1138> Celestar, I also thought of a conceptual problem...
08:00:44  <Celestar> when I have a vehicle, is should v->first ever be empty?
08:00:51  <peter1138> Why should cargo care to which station it goes to, as long as it ends up at the right industry?
08:01:06  <Eddi|zuHause2> you have no way of statically deciding the branch condition, so you add an edge for both ways
08:01:26  <peter1138> Celestar, possibly if it's the first in the chain?
08:01:34  <Celestar> peter1138: then v->first should be v
08:01:42  <Celestar> from what I see
08:01:54  <Rubidium> v->first is never empty, except in unconstructed vehicles
08:02:11  <Celestar> peter1138: It shouldn't care. But that's what I go for now and polish it up later
08:02:22  <Celestar> peter1138: we could have a Routing->IsEquivalentStation
08:02:34  <Celestar> or summin
08:02:53  <peter1138> < Nice gamelog :p
08:03:15  <Wolf01> yeah, I managed to crash 4 trains... I didn't looked into the depots before moving a YAPP signal
08:03:32  <hylje> well
08:03:39  <hylje> the cargo might not care about where it's delivered
08:03:46  <hylje> but the industry which ordered the stuff does
08:05:33  <Celestar> peter1138: did you manage to get YAPP merged ? :D
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08:06:47  <peter1138> No, not yet.
08:06:56  <peter1138> I think I messed it up :p
08:07:11  <peter1138> Though the hg repo being rebuilt may not have help.
08:07:13  <peter1138> +ed
08:08:20  <peter1138> All the old commits have different changeset numbers...
08:09:40  <Celestar> peter1138: shall I try it on my end?
08:09:44  <Celestar> BAH
08:09:55  <Celestar> autoreplace called CmdSellVehicle with p1 to 1 for EACH vehicle
08:09:57  <peter1138> Celestar: Make multiple backups first
08:12:01  <Celestar> peter1138: how?
08:12:05  <Celestar> BAAAH
08:12:14  <hylje> by copying it
08:12:30  <hylje> (changeset numbers are not nor should they be relied upon)
08:13:12  <peter1138> Part of the problem is it decided I should merge it manually using nano...
08:13:22  <peter1138> I have since removed that piece of shit.
08:14:30  <Celestar> peter1138: ok talk me through
08:15:38  <peter1138> I've got it back now!
08:15:55  <peter1138> I re-updated and it offered me the merges again... this time with vim.
08:18:56  <Celestar> peter1138: I'll be back in 5
08:20:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13971 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [YAPP]: segfault due to mixed up variables (michi_cc)
08:24:16  <peter1138> It's given me merges for complete files that we've not touched... *sigh*
08:25:38  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13972 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2180]: the timetable's "Clear Time" button didn't have any effect.
08:27:31  <Celestar> back
08:27:59  <SpComb> YAPP in trunk \o/
08:28:20  <hylje> and much fixing ensued
08:28:44  <peter1138> Hmm, my hg diff now appears to contain all of *routing* not the merge... how fun
08:29:39  <peter1138> Nearly there...
08:30:34  <Celestar> BAH
08:30:39  <Celestar> I have NFI about what autoreplace does
08:30:59  <peter1138> Welcome to the club :)
08:31:08  <Rubidium> Celestar: at least cause 4 critical bugs that nobody knows how to solve
08:31:42  <Celestar> Rubidium: I mean what it does from a coding point of view
08:31:47  <peter1138> I'm sure we would if we looked at it properly instead of waiting for bjarni to do it.
08:32:14  <hylje> time to rewrite it?
08:32:16  <Rubidium> peter1138: uhm... looked at it properly means rewrote from scratch right?
08:32:27  <peter1138> Quite probably...
08:36:39  * Celestar nods
08:36:45  <Celestar> we can keep the GUI methinks
08:37:00  <peter1138> And the storage.
08:37:05  <Celestar> *nods*
08:40:59  <Celestar> what the HELL does autoreplace do with CmdMoveVehicle?
08:47:46  <Celestar> peter1138: are you pullable? (=
08:47:55  <peter1138> Err...
08:48:14  <peter1138> I think you might want to reclone...
08:48:26  <Celestar> hm
08:48:38  <peter1138> Check revision 9b14f7a4ff83 in a browser...
08:48:43  <Celestar> what about the changes you haven't pulled yet?
08:48:44  <peter1138> "Some sort of merge..."
08:49:39  <peter1138> I'll make a backup and pull in your repo, see what happens...
08:49:48  <Celestar> heh :)
08:50:01  <Celestar> I'll then fix this one thing and repull/reclone
08:51:08  <peter1138> Pull from you works :)
08:53:23  <Tekky> Rubidium: Thanks for putting YAPP into trunk, you made many people happy today :-)
08:53:51  <peter1138> I have to start a new cargodest game now :p
08:54:08  <peter1138> OpenTTD h:7cc4714
08:54:11  <peter1138> Hmmm
09:01:13  <Tekky> Rubidium: Ah, also thx fÃŒr fixing the bug with the "clear time" button :)
09:02:52  <peter1138> fÃŒr ?
09:03:16  <Wolf01> There's a thing I can't understand: Load at A, go to B, jump to A if load is 0%, go to C... at C trains don't earn money
09:06:49  <Wolf01> I have mixed trains grain/livestock, and since I have more grain wagons, the grain stockpile will fill before the livestock stockpile, so I funded another food processing plant to deliver the rejected grain
09:07:49  <Wolf01> seem that trains will get money for grain at the first station, but they can't deliver all the cargo
09:08:29  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm NOT going to fix autoreplace for routing at the moment.
09:08:38  <Celestar> it's basically somewhat broken for multiheaded engines
09:09:06  <dih> will there be some nicer interface to at some point?
09:09:46  <peter1138> Celestar: s/for multiheaded engines//
09:10:00  <peter1138> dih: is nicer.
09:10:13  <Celestar> YAY!
09:10:14  <Celestar> (gdb) p dst_head->next->next->next->next->next->next->u.rail.other_" target="_blank">u.rail.other_multiheaded_part->u.rail.other_" target="_blank">u.rail.other_multiheaded_part->first
09:10:17  <Celestar> 5 = (Train *) 0x84dda80
09:10:20  <Celestar> (gdb) p dst_head->next->next->next->next->next->next->u.rail.other_multiheaded_part->first
09:10:23  <Celestar> 6 = (Train *) 0x84dd330
09:10:33  <dih> peter1138, websvn is nice ;-)
09:10:33  <Celestar> the two parts of the multiheaded vehicle belong to two different trains \o/
09:10:41  * Celestar grunts in pain
09:10:53  <peter1138> websvn is horrible.
09:10:55  <hylje> awesome.
09:11:12  <dih> peter1138, <- nice themes though :-P
09:11:55  <Celestar> peter1138: autoreplace *seems* to work with cargodest if it is not multiheaded
09:13:48  <peter1138> dih, default view of the file tree is not useful for viewing changesets.
09:14:03  <dih> true
09:14:32  <dih> but you dont have non-svn revision numbers
09:14:51  <peter1138> It's actually really hard to websvn to find out how to show the changes...
09:15:00  <Gekz> ʘ_ʘ
09:15:02  <peter1138>
09:15:11  <dih> oh - nice
09:15:32  <peter1138> Instant changesets, instant changes, source if you really need it
09:15:47  <dih> why did you not say so earlier :-P
09:15:49  <dih> thank you peter1138
09:21:11  <Celestar> SUCKS!
09:21:14  <Celestar> SUCKS!
09:21:38  <Gekz> cocks
09:24:53  <Prof_Frink> goats
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09:28:24  <Mchl> hello
09:28:28  <Celestar> peter1138: ping
09:28:49  <Celestar> peter1138: I've pushed all my changes to my hg repo. What to do next?
09:32:35  <Alberth> Rubidium: Yesterday I posted my new widget structure to the dev forum, so everybody can have a look at it. Should I also add a link to fs1905?
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09:36:07  <peter1138> I've pulled.
09:36:41  <Celestar> can you pull once more? :D
09:36:56  <Celestar> how do I make a backup? or is it save to just clone your repo?
09:38:37  <peter1138> Again? But nothings changed...
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09:39:14  <peter1138> Just move it out of the way then do a clone.
09:39:15  <Celestar> ok cool
09:39:50  * Prof_Frink attacks peter1138's clones
09:41:32  <Ammler> hehe, broken savegame :-)
09:41:45  <Ammler> well, that is worth...
09:45:01  <Celestar> adding changesets
09:45:36  <Celestar> BIG changes
09:45:38  <peter1138> That is worht what?
09:45:54  <Celestar> peter1138: I can safely assume that all non-trunk savegames are now borked? :D
09:45:59  <peter1138> Yup.
09:46:05  <Celestar> :P
09:46:16  <peter1138> I updated the cargopacket save version so we only use 101 now.
09:46:20  <Celestar> cool
09:46:45  <Celestar> what about our TODO list? is 4 still valid? is B done?
09:46:52  <peter1138> Dunno, not looked ;P
09:46:55  <Celestar> do we do 7a)?
09:47:01  <Celestar> what about 2a+b=
09:47:20  <peter1138> 7a, yes, I am going to add a sorter there.
09:47:35  <peter1138> Sort by destination/via or quantity
09:47:52  <Celestar> awesome
09:47:54  <peter1138> Then use the additional space to add a button to replace ctrl-click.
09:48:20  <Celestar> peter1138: pull/update did work without problems
09:48:25  <peter1138> Cool
09:51:20  <Celestar> it compiles also
09:52:18  <Ammler> [11:45] <peter1138> That is worht what? <-- need of restart cargogame...
09:52:29  <Celestar> ok
09:52:30  <Celestar> shower time
09:53:19  <peter1138> Ammler, in English, we say "that is worth *it*"
09:54:10  <Ammler> not only in English, :-$
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10:02:32  <peter1138> Crap, I've run out of money :(
10:02:44  * peter1138 ponders a £10,000,000 'loan'
10:03:02  <Rubidium> ALT-1 ;)
10:03:18  <peter1138> Not a debug build.
10:04:18  <Rubidium> too bad
10:05:14  <peter1138> Hmm, I could do with drive-through stops on slopes :o
10:06:04  <peter1138> And those diagonal level crossings.
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10:12:00  <Celestar> yes yes
10:12:12  <Celestar> peter1138: do we have any ideas about destination generation?
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10:13:54  <JdGordon> hi all, I've just svn up'ed and there is a new signal type there, is there any info on how to use them anywhere?
10:14:18  <dih> search the forums for yapp
10:14:25  <dih> it's pbs ;-)
10:14:29  <Progman> JdGordon:
10:14:46  <dih> or let someone else search for you and give you the link directly
10:14:52  <JdGordon> cheers
10:17:40  <Wezz6400> ooh PBS is in trunk now, nice :D
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10:20:03  <Celestar> peter1138: segfault
10:20:19  <Celestar> JdGordon: there's a very very good entry on the wiki. search it for YAPP
10:22:24  <Nazer> I read the YAPP wiki page but still dont understand what these new signals do, if 2 trains can enter the same signal block wont that cause crashes?
10:22:47  <Forked> no, they reserve a path to the next safe waiting point (signal / station / depot)
10:23:00  <Forked> so they have claimed that piece of track for themself and no other trains can use it
10:23:44  <Celestar> peter1138: pull. critical bugfix
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10:30:52  <Tekky> Nazer: YAPP does not work with "signal blocks", it works with individual track pieces.
10:31:42  <Tekky> Nazer: so you don't get a crash when two trains are in the same signal block, only if two trains are on the same track piece :-)
10:32:01  <Brianetta> Tekky: Technically, that was always the case (:
10:32:37  <Mchl> except for that one nighly, where train over and on bridge also could crash
10:33:03  <Mchl> under and on...
10:33:15  <Ammler> just wondering, is there a difference between "svn co <url> ./" and "svn up", if it is already checked out?
10:33:34  <peter1138> Always use svn up.
10:33:46  <Nazer> Mchl: haha was that when you were working on the complex tracks under bridges?
10:33:47  <Brianetta> svn up or svn switch
10:34:13  <Brianetta> I use svn switch on my server.  I build the stable releases from the tags.
10:34:49  <Mchl> I don't recall when exactly that was, and I certainly wasn't working on complex track layouts
10:36:06  <Ammler> well, that is "clear", just used co accidentially on a repo I already checked out, and it did a update without error and such...
10:38:08  <Nazer> I have a query, because I cant find this documented anywhere on the wiki. Are oil wells supposed to slowly diminish over time and then close regardless of the quality of the service?
10:38:33  <Nazer> I noticed this since I got the latest stable build.. im sure this never used to happen
10:39:55  <peter1138> Yes.
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10:41:23  <Nazer> that does make sense but doesnt that mean the coal and iron should run out as well?
10:41:43  <frosch123> oil wells vanish, oil rigs appear
10:43:12  <frosch123> and if you use pikka's basic industries, mines also have limited resources
10:43:36  <Nazer> ah ok
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10:45:29  <Forked> urgh.. 8 track station is not enough.. and there are cities on all sides of it. how to expand? :\
10:46:33  <Nazer> do you have busses transfering people to the station? If so build a new station out of the city and transfer the passengers there instead
10:47:16  <Forked> no transfers, no.. haven't gone that advanced yet :p
10:47:23  <Nazer> or use busses and trains to transfer people from the existing station to an outside station and have the outside station do all the work
10:48:52  <Nazer> you might loose money because you have to transfer people but in the long run you will make more because you can build the new station with a massive throughput
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10:49:45  <Forked>
10:50:02  <Forked> top right station hasn't been put in use yet, heh
10:50:52  <Forked> sad thing is, only 30 trains going through Grunnley Woods
10:51:03  <Forked> but the area I cover is pretty small
10:52:45  <Nazer> i dont think your problem is station size
10:53:12  <Forked> inefficency
10:53:17  <Nazer> at the exit to the station you have a big chunk of unsignaled track
10:53:23  <Nazer> which means trains cant get out fast enough
10:54:09  <Nazer> unless your doing somthing special with pbs signals, i have never used them so I wouldnt know
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10:54:59  <Forked> well, PBS makes it a bit less of a pain, but I could probably make that exit-section alot better
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10:55:48  <Nazer> if you have exits that are as long as your longest train it will be like doubling the number of stations
10:55:49  <peter1138> Ooh, how ugly.
10:56:14  <Forked> I know, peter =P
10:56:37  <Forked> off to the shower, gf wants the laptop anyway..
10:56:43  <Nazer> ok, bye
10:56:55  <peter1138> Forked: Build more track on the entrance to the station.
10:57:08  <peter1138> Your signal X across the parallel lines is a big bottle neck.
10:57:11  <peter1138> *single*
10:57:43  <peter1138> There are empty platforms that would be used if you had more diagonal lines.
10:57:56  <Nazer> yes, take a look at ro-ro station on the wiki it shows how to use pre-signals to great effect
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10:58:24  <peter1138> pre-signals are unnecessary, it's PBS'd...
10:59:38  <Nazer> I think im going to need to download the nighlty and try pbs signals, if they are so great im missing out
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11:07:52  <Tekky> Nazer: I think the current nightly does not have PBS yet, you must wait for today's nightly which is built at around 19:00 GMT, I think.
11:08:17  <Nazer> how are people using pbs at the moment then?
11:08:36  <Tekky> they compile the source code themselves, after downloading it with an SVN client.
11:08:42  <Nazer> right ok
11:09:12  <Forked> (or use a patch pack, and I'm really off now =p)
11:09:14  <peter1138>
11:21:30  <Alberth> Is there any use of the signals near the platforms with PBS?
11:24:00  <Gekz> how does PBS work
11:26:05  <Alberth> Gekz: There is a short description at the top of the YAPP thread in the dev forum
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11:26:58  * frosch123 tries to learn yapp basics
11:27:24  <peter1138> Alberth, possibly not on the terminus, but I put them there for consistency.
11:27:39  <Gekz> Alberth: but I'm lazy
11:28:10  <frosch123> works, but why do neither nor work? (despite of the fact they won't work with more than two trains)
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11:28:49  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r13973 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Codechange [YAPP]: Improve the behavior when changing signals to not cause stale reservations. (michi_cc)
11:29:12  <Alberth> Gekz: Best way then is turn on 'show reserved tracks' config patch, and watch. :)
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11:30:46  <peter1138> frosch123, no orders?
11:31:01  <frosch123> of course orders
11:32:34  <Gekz> Alberth: fine, jnust link me then
11:32:36  <Gekz> so I may read
11:32:36  <Gekz> lol
11:33:24  <Alberth> Gekz: (12:14:33 PM) Progman: JdGordon:
11:34:05  <Alberth> Hmm, I should have removed the other users first. Sorry!
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11:36:34  <michi_cc> frosch123: works for me:,%2014th%20Mar%201950.sav
11:38:29  <peter1138> Oh, beat me to it :po
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11:43:01  <michi_cc> frosch123: any chance you have changed some YAPF penalties to non-standard values?
11:43:23  <frosch123> i never modified them
11:43:59  <frosch123> <- start the trains in the depot
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11:46:47  <michi_cc> frosch123: I don't know why, but pf.yapf.rail_pbs_station_penalty is set to 2 in your savegame. the default should be 800
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11:52:33  <frosch123> that penalty is new, isn't it?
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11:53:34  <peter1138> Yeah
11:54:12  <peter1138> Is it correct in a blank config?
11:54:14  <frosch123> my old pre-yapp openttd.cfg already shows the value of two, so I guess it is some remnant of an old version
11:54:22  <frosch123> yup, blank file is correct
11:55:18  <frosch123> must be the fault of the russian patch pack, as I cannot remember trying any pbs before
11:57:25  <frosch123> oh yeah, there is quite a lot rubbish in my cfg :x
11:59:30  <peter1138> heh
12:00:11  <frosch123> I only wanted to know what 'new configure patches menu' meant...
12:00:34  <peter1138> What did it mean?
12:01:56  <frosch123> they had to much options to fit them on the existing pages, so they added a 'vehicles2' and 'economy2' tab (or similiar) and randomly placed horizontal separator lines between some options
12:02:16  <frosch123> some of the so groupes options belonged together, some did not seem to...
12:03:59  <peter1138> Ouch.
12:04:58  <frosch123> "SDT_CONDVAR(GameSettings, pf.yapf.rail_pbs_station_penalty,                       SLE_UINT, 94, SL_MAX_VERSION, 0, 0,     2" <- proof
12:06:30  <frosch123> they were missing a ' * YAPF_TILE_LENGTH' :p
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12:27:10  <Alberth> Hmm, with PBS train doesn't reroute to depot when you click 'go to depot' when train is just before it.
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12:38:02  <Celestar> back
12:38:19  <Celestar> michi_cc: congratz :S
12:38:20  <Celestar> :D*
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12:46:46  * Celestar goes playtesting cargo destinations
12:48:57  <peter1138> We need to solve the non-acceptance transfer bug :(
12:55:23  <Celestar> peter1138: non-acceptance-transfer-bug?
12:56:24  <peter1138> Yeah, nothing is transfered if the station doesn't accept the cargo type.
12:56:32  <Celestar> O_o
12:56:34  <Celestar> not good
12:56:40  <peter1138> We stuffed that one up ;)
12:56:44  <Celestar> you or me? (=
12:57:06  <peter1138> Both?
12:57:14  <peter1138> economy.cpp:1547
12:57:35  <peter1138> It still follows the old rules for unloading/transferring there.
12:57:42  <Celestar> yeah
12:57:57  <Celestar> we need to teach the code that transfer is implicit when the cargo has destinations
12:58:19  <Celestar> so maybe not check the flags but have a small function TransferAtStation()
13:02:18  <frosch123> michi_cc: Ok, I am evil :p Scenario: The train crash is okay, I guess. Can we do something about the remaining track reservation?
13:15:54  <Alberth> Can anybody explain why loading oil is so slow here? All wagons are at the platform
13:19:06  <frosch123> might be considered a bug, post it to FS
13:20:58  <SmatZ> I think that bug will be closed
13:21:08  <SmatZ> as not a bug
13:21:37  <SmatZ> train is longer than plaform
13:21:55  <frosch123> but not the wagons which are loaded
13:22:05  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm running into performance issues here :o
13:22:21  <SmatZ> frosch123: then you could have all locos behind the station
13:22:31  <SmatZ> I don't think this is a legal way of playing
13:22:59  <frosch123> maybe
13:25:34  <frosch123> yay, two way yapp station are really nice :)
13:26:44  <Celestar> frosch123: yes they are
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13:29:45  <Celestar> I have NO CHANCE go get rid of passengers still :P
13:29:53  <peter1138> Hmm?
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13:30:08  <Celestar> they're all over the place (=
13:32:14  <peter1138> Yeah... it's... hard.
13:34:34  <Celestar> 5000 pax at one of my stations and counting
13:34:55  <hylje> a lot of passenger generation or just leaks?
13:35:13  <Celestar> hylje: no leaks
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13:37:33  <Celestar> I wonder what is so slow about this
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13:40:34  <Celestar> peter1138:
13:47:15  <Celestar> found reason for apparent slowness :P
13:47:50  <michi_cc> frosch123: try this:
13:48:09  <michi_cc> it feels very hacky but I don't see another solution without changing lots of code
13:48:43  <michi_cc> the trains will still crash but there won't be a stale reservation remaining
13:51:21  <Celestar> why do the trains crash?
13:51:39  <Celestar> oh because the train in the station doesn't have any place to stop in the first place, right?
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13:53:09  <michi_cc> Celestar: they crash because the first train didn't reserve a path because before building the pbs signal it was no pbs block
13:54:14  <frosch123> seems to work :)
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13:55:34  <michi_cc> it just has a rather hacky feel
13:56:12  <frosch123> but there is a second issue wrt train crashes: when trains crash, (sometimes) they have already released the tile they were just about to leave, causing further trains to crash into them
13:56:30  <michi_cc> look inside that patch for a commit message if you dare to commit :)
13:57:03  <michi_cc> as long as it is possible, a crashing train should always try to reserve the tracks it is currently on
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13:57:50  <Vikthor> Hmm, conditional orders based on destination of carried cargo would be really handy
13:58:10  <hylje> but would kinda fuck up with how destinations work
14:00:08  <Vikthor> hmm maybe i just expressed myself bad, I would like to skip certain stations if there is no cargo for that station on board
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14:05:39  <xahodo> Hello
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14:11:06  <xahodo> Found a bug in YAPP: when converting a signal to a pbs signal (and thus the signal block it's part of to a pbs block), trains inside the blockin question will not reserve the tiles they're on nor the tiles they're heading to. This might result in a crash.
14:11:25  <xahodo> I have managed to reproduce it.
14:11:27  <frosch123> sounds familiar :p
14:11:57  <xahodo> errr... you already busy with it?
14:13:58  <michi_cc> if you change or remove normal signals, you can also get a crash. might be a missing feature, but not really a bug
14:14:26  <xahodo> Well, it would be /really/ useful.
14:14:38  <michi_cc> or all train crashed can be considered as a "bug"
14:14:57  <glx> not if they are due to "user"
14:15:18  <michi_cc> build or changing pbs signals certainly is a user action
14:16:49  <dih> and a silly one if a train is in that very block!
14:17:10  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r13974 /trunk/src/ (pbs.cpp pbs.h train_cmd.cpp): -Fix [YAPP]: A train crash could lead to stale reservations. (michi_cc)
14:18:26  <xahodo> It seems perfectly logical to me that the moment a signal block gets converted to pbs, all trains in it (if there are) reserve their paths, to prevent crashes.
14:19:26  <glx> what should happen if they fail to reserve a path?
14:21:13  <peter1138> Celestar, what's the cause?
14:21:15  <xahodo> They should at least reserve the rail segments their occupying. After that they should look for a safe path out of the pbs block once in a while (once a day, perhaps?)
14:21:37  <peter1138> I think they shouldn't.
14:21:51  <dih> and how would you let the train in the block know that something has changed
14:21:54  <peter1138> Learn to not mess with signals while trains are near them...
14:22:01  <dih> aye
14:23:25  <Prof_Frink> peter1138: Add a "lock red" action to signals? Actually, it's probably easier to just add dynamite.
14:24:11  <Prof_Frink> Or de-eclectify if all your trains run on electrickery
14:28:32  <xahodo> dih: once a signal gets converted to a pbs signal, the blocks which it influences could be checked whether they already are pbs blocks, if not all tiles of the blocks in question could be checked for vehicles on them and those vehicles could be forced to reserve the tiles they occupy and then search for a path.
14:29:18  <dih> xahodo, i am not sure you realize that a train is not notified of a changed signal regarding the block the train is currently inside
14:29:36  <dih> hence - once a pbs block has a train inside it - dont mess with it
14:29:56  <dih> if you need to muck about with it, make sure no trains can enter it or build a bypass for the time being
14:30:43  <xahodo> Isn't there a possible solution, instead of a workaround?
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14:36:59  <peter1138> Haha
14:37:01  <peter1138> Stupid town.
14:37:19  <peter1138> They wouldn't let me build a truck stop to service a food processing plant... and now it has closed down...
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14:43:07  <Tekky> is it possible to trigger today's nightly build to be built already now instead of in only 3 hours? There are many people in the forums who can't wait for today's nightly build. :)
14:43:10  <planetmaker> g'day all
14:43:40  <peter1138> They'll just have to wait :D
14:43:46  <Tekky> :)
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14:45:13  <Tekky> Now all pages with of all the "advanced track layouts" in the OpenTTD manual will have to be updated for YAPP :-)
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14:46:48  <peter1138> Tekky, are you volunteering?
14:47:46  <Tekky> well, I am thinking whether advanced track layouts such as cloverleaves are still necessary?
14:47:48  <frosch123> Tekky: IIRC the NoAI build is earlier
14:49:09  <Tekky> unfortunately, there is no YAPP replacement for priority lines (yet).
14:49:12  <Yexo> yep, two hours earlier to be exact
14:49:38  <peter1138> Does there need to be a replacement? The existing priority lines still work, don't they?
14:49:39  <Tekky> However, priority lines with pre-signals were an ugly hack anyway, IMHO.
14:49:55  <glx> Yexo: but it won't have the latest bug fixes
14:50:03  <peter1138> I like Brianetta's priority orders idea, if it actually works...
14:51:16  <Brianetta> Well, now a patch can be attempted against trunk (:
14:51:25  <Yexo> peter1138: was that with reserving two signals ahead?
14:51:32  <frosch123> michi_cc: When two trains crash, the first train will release its reservation and then reserve the tiles it is on. Then the second train releases its tracks including those of the first train. That will cause further trains to drive into them.
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14:52:54  <extspotter> Brianetta?
14:53:04  <Tekky> peter1138: Yes, I also like Brianetta's idea of priority orders.
14:53:39  <Tekky> peter1138: Actually, I had that idea myself, already one year ago. :-)
14:55:10  <Tekky> Yexo: yes, that was Brianetta's idea.
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14:56:52  <Tekky> Do we still need such junctions with YAPP?
14:56:59  <Tekky> I think not :)
14:58:22  <frosch123> michi_cc: i.e. <- let train2 ignore its signal
14:58:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13975 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Replace some globals used by the small map window with static members of the window.
14:59:21  <peter1138> Tekky, I don't think there are any TTDPatch PBS samples on there either :o
15:01:25  <Tekky> frosch123: You are only supposed to place signals in places where it is safe for trains to wait. In your savegame, you placed one signal so that a train waiting to enter the station will block trains leaving the station.
15:02:04  <frosch123> Tecky: It is not supposed to be a sensible layout :p
15:02:19  <Tekky> aha :)
15:02:38  <frosch123> but one to show a problem with reserving tracks of crashed trains
15:03:31  <Tekky> the trains don't crash with me?
15:03:52  <Tekky> are you using r13970 or r13972?
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15:04:30  <frosch123> Tekky: As I wrote above I forced them to crash
15:05:20  <Tekky> ah, yes, that seems like a bug to me.
15:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause2> <Alberth> Hmm, with PBS train doesn't reroute to depot when you click 'go to depot' when train is just before it. <- it cannot unreserve the track it has already reserved, so the end of the reserved track is already way past the signal. you have to send to depot before entering the junction
15:08:12  <Tekky> But I see no easy way of fixing this. Forcing a train over a red signal should also cause that train to make a reservation by force, so that two trains have reserved the same track. However, the current map array does not store the owner of the reservation. Therefore, I believe that reservations should be stored outside the map array.
15:09:32  <Tekky> This would also have the advantage that reservations would not be tied to track pieces, but one could instead tie them to entire track segments, i.e. a length of track with no switches or signals in between.
15:09:39  <frosch123> Tecky: One solution would be to rereserve all trackbits of any crashed vehicles after freeing the reservation of the currently crashed trains
15:09:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> a train that is forced, should reserve the track when it is entering a new tile
15:09:45  <frosch123> but a bit expensive
15:10:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> but really, don't force any trains ;)
15:11:02  <frosch123> yawn - the problem is not that the first two trains crash, but that the crashed trains not properly reserve the tracks they are standing on
15:11:11  <Tekky> frosch: That may be a solution to your immediate problem, but forcing trains over a red signal would still be broken, as the map array does not permit two trains to each have one reservation on the same track piece.
15:11:51  <Tekky> Eddi: That is an interesting idea.
15:12:28  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause2: So I noticed after switching on showing of track reservations. It takes a bit of getting used to. I found it very convenient clicking on a train just before a depot, since I can then almost immediately perform the operation I want on the train instead of having to wait a long time for the train to reach a depot
15:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> Alberth: place a signal before the depot ;)
15:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause2> i don't show reservations... they detoriate my view...
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16:02:04  <michi_cc> frosch123: how about
16:05:33  <frosch123> currently busy, please wait a little
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16:13:50  <frosch123> michi_cc: doesn't that just postpone the issue until three trains are involved?
16:19:04  <michi_cc> under specific circumstances yes, but only if the trains collide in the wrong order and have the wrong orientation. in practice, I wasn't able to cause a freed reservation in your example no matter how many trains I crashed
16:22:39  <dih> define 'wrong order' and 'wrong orientation'
16:25:03  <frosch123> michi_cc: <- first force train2, after the crash force train4 :)
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16:28:02  <Roujin> cheers
16:28:12  <Wolf01> hello
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16:29:45  <peter1138> Isn't forcing trains to crash bound to crash...?
16:30:13  <frosch123> peter1138: but only for the forced trains
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16:41:15  <Tekky> I think it's about trains not detecting a crash site of two trains and therefore further trains crashing into the crash site.
16:42:48  <Wolf01> I got some problems with trains waiting for free path when they are at depot and another train was waiting outside the depot, but I must say that I deleted some PBS signals where other trains had reservations... so I think it's not a bug, it is my fault because I didn't check if there were trains on the depot
16:44:07  <Tekky> That reminds me that I once for fun compiled my own version of OpenTTD where trains were programmed to simply ignore red signals and treat them as green. It was fun to watch the number of trains in my network shrink from 200 to about 3 trains within a few seconds :-)
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16:46:10  <Tekky> Wolf01: please post your savegame, then I will take a look at it.
16:46:51  <Wolf01> It's too big and too many grfs loaded
16:47:36  <Wolf01> if you want to replicate it, try to replace normal signals with pbs ones on a busy station
16:48:28  <frosch123> michi_cc: seems to work
16:49:51  <frosch123> but you are the expert :)
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16:55:41  <michi_cc> yeah, that's the brute-force version. I'm testing a more intelligent solution, but I'm not sure it is actually woth the effort
16:56:30  <frosch123> yup, crashes are not that often, they need optimizing :p
16:56:57  <frosch123> -,
16:57:37  <michi_cc> not pretty, but doesn't loop all trains:
16:58:11  <michi_cc> the dump solution might be more appropriate here
16:58:21  <michi_cc> s/dump/dumb/
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17:07:53  <frosch123> agreed, let's take my dumb version :p
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17:16:52  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r13976 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13953) [YAPP]: A crashing train could sometimes free the reservation of another train. (assisted by michi_cc)
17:17:48  <blathijs> Hey, did we merge YAPP?
17:17:55  <frosch123> lol
17:19:17  <frosch123> I guess you haven't yet read any ottd related stuff today
17:19:30  <blathijs> Nope, not much
17:19:30  <Tekky> blathijs: hehe, yes, check the changelog:
17:19:42  <blathijs> I just checked #openttd.notice :-)
17:19:53  <frosch123> like, it is on all channels :p
17:20:27  <blathijs> Seems like the changes were nice and incremental as well, instead of one big merge. I guess they came from some git repos or something?
17:21:16  <frosch123> damn, the fix was not enough :(
17:21:27  <Tekky> Yesterday was a historic moment for OpenTTD :)
17:22:15  <blathijs> hehe
17:23:46  <Tekky> just wait until today's nightly build is generated, I'm sure it will be very popular :)
17:24:06  <frosch123> imagine compilation would fail :p
17:24:13  <Tekky> It will be generated in 35 minutes, I think.
17:25:49  <Mchl> I hear that tonights nightly will beat FF3 download record
17:25:57  <Noldo> haha :)
17:25:59  <Tekky> hehe, yes, the culprit who caused the compilation to fail would certainly get a lot of hate mail :)
17:27:04  * Rubidium summons Bjarni ;)
17:27:21  <Mchl> how much mana is Bjarni?
17:27:54  <Noldo> don't know but I bet it's black and red
17:27:59  *** LilDood [] has joined #openttd
17:28:20  <Mchl> and Rare...
17:28:23  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
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17:32:11  <Mchl> Oh, how I hate, when I'm reminded of M:TG... I feel the urge to buy the cards again...
17:32:32  *** ln [] has joined #openttd
17:35:20  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13977 /trunk/src/ (widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Let ResizeWindowForWidget() handle hidden (zero height or zero width) widgets.
17:35:57  *** mikl [] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]
17:36:52  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13978 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Fix: Incorrect widget size.
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17:49:30  <Wolf01> where is the signal gui patch setting gone? we'll need a search box for patch settings :P
17:49:47  <frosch123> construction or interface
17:50:04  <Wolf01> oh, found, construction tab ;)
17:53:25  <glx> Wolf01: ctrl-click on the signal button
17:53:27  *** Wezz6400 [] has quit [Quit: brb]
17:54:11  <Wolf01> yes I know that, but I wanted to enable the gui to avoid to do that :P
17:55:15  <Yexo> I'd like a new option for cycling with ctrl: cycling to only normal or only advanced signals, depending on the current signal type
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18:00:41  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13979 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use widget dimensions instead of magic number incantations for limiting small map area.
18:00:47  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
18:00:50  <Ammler> nightly server ready?
18:00:51  *** extspotter [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
18:01:38  <peter1138> Oh, no commit time... is that not enforced any more?
18:01:55  <glx> it never has been, it was just recommended
18:02:03  <peter1138> Oh... whoops :)
18:02:24  <peter1138> win32 is done!
18:02:43  <peter1138> Heh, didn't include my last change.
18:02:53  <glx> of course :)
18:03:19  <peter1138> My clock says it's pre-cutoff, but it's probably wrong again.
18:03:43  <peter1138> 18:00:28
18:03:45  <peter1138> Hah!
18:03:48  <peter1138> That's pretty close to it :)
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18:10:13  <Ammler> hmm
18:10:14  <Ammler> openttd: /home/openttd/svn-public/src/industry_map.h:61: IndustryID GetIndustryIndex(TileIndex): Assertion `IsTileType(t, MP_INDUSTRY)' failed.
18:10:51  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:11:36  <glx> Ammler: not enough info
18:12:05  <Ammler> hmm, after update of our publicserver
18:12:21  <Ammler> but it seems, we need to start a new game...
18:13:02  <Ammler> right after unpausing...
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18:17:16  <frosch123> morphos is crap
18:18:00  <Rubidium> it's more that gcc 2.95 is crap
18:18:12  <DJNekkid> question, when a vagon vehicleID is above 116, is it intended behavior that it is treatet as an engine?
18:18:40  <Rubidium> what do you expect it to be by default?
18:18:53  <Rubidium> as there is no default for those vehicle IDs
18:19:01  <DJNekkid> well ... i give it 0 power
18:19:01  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13980 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Turn small map legend while loop into a for-loop.
18:19:13  <Mchl> some 50 commits for nightly... it's been a busy day :)
18:19:26  <Rubidium> set the proper flags that it isn't an engine and such
18:19:42  <DJNekkid> flags?
18:19:55  <DJNekkid> as in 0B 0 ?
18:20:01  <DJNekkid> *0B 00
18:20:30  <peter1138> Power at 0 should be a wagon.
18:20:53  <peter1138> Power at 0 is the default for above 16, but it shouldn't be relied upon.
18:21:26  <Rubidium> oh, the flag's for powered wagons
18:21:32  <DJNekkid> ahh, ofcourse :)
18:21:56  <DJNekkid> 1B is powered wagons
18:25:32  <Ammler> but it is always the same assert,
18:26:18  <peter1138> You didn't specify how to reproduce it.
18:26:38  <planetmaker> we can give you the savegame, peter1138
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18:27:04  <peter1138> Assuming it's trunk, could you please give it to
18:27:09  <Ammler> peter1138: I fear, there was just too much changes...
18:27:31  <peter1138> In what?
18:27:34  <Ammler> our save is about 300 years old
18:28:05  <Yexo> Ammler: I downloaded game.sav from, and it crashes after running for three seconds
18:28:25  <Ammler> server was rev 13800
18:29:05  <Ammler> so not only in MP
18:30:27  <planetmaker>
18:30:33  <planetmaker> ^^save in question
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18:34:25  <Ammler> Yexo: do you have accidentially a debug build?
18:34:30  <Yexo> yep
18:34:38  <Ammler> can you check which tile that is?
18:35:03  <peter1138> Nice.
18:35:14  <peter1138> An industry tile is not an industry tile.
18:35:20  <frosch123> oilrig?
18:35:20  <Ammler> mÀh :-)
18:35:29  <peter1138> That's still an industry.
18:35:42  <frosch123> oilrigs also hava station tiles
18:35:49  <peter1138> frosch123, it's within TileLoop_Industry()
18:37:00  <Ammler> it is not yapp, asserts also with 13900
18:37:12  <frosch123> yup, oilrigs convert MP_INDUSTRY tiles into MP_STATION when they are completed, which IIRC happens in tileloop
18:37:41  <peter1138> Right, but it's the first call after TileLoop_Water()
18:39:04  <Rubidium> you mean that the industry got flooded by itself?
18:39:30  <peter1138> Nope.
18:39:44  <peter1138> It's a forest, nowhere near water.
18:41:57  <peter1138> Hmm...
18:42:03  <peter1138> But type_height is 96
18:42:12  <Rubidium> after the crash yes
18:42:19  <peter1138> Yes
18:44:10  <Rubidium> okay, IsIndustryTileOnWater(<crash tile>) is true before the crash
18:44:43  <frosch123> faulty savegame conversion?
18:45:12  <Rubidium> might be
18:45:59  <Rubidium> or not
18:46:24  <Rubidium> IsIndustryTileOnWater(<crash tile>) is false after saveload
18:47:46  <peter1138> ResetIndustryConstructionStage
18:47:53  <peter1138> resets the whole of m1
18:47:57  <peter1138> instead of just the appropriate bits
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18:48:43  <Roujin> don't want to disturb your debugging.. but aren't flyspray changes noted in the notice channel anymore? why's that?
18:49:20  <Rubidium> because we upgraded FS and the FS devs decided to remove the XMLRPC module
18:49:55  <Rubidium> so it was either an upgraded FS without notices (until reimplemented) or using the old (annoying) FS
18:50:06  <Roujin> was there anything wrong with it? :/ why suddenly remove features
18:50:18  <Roujin> the new FS is shiny though ^^
18:50:19  <Rubidium> no idea
18:50:19  <peter1138> FS devs != us
18:50:29  <planetmaker> 13826 still works (myself tested), 13840 doesn't work anymore (Ammler tested)
18:50:30  <Roujin> yes yes, peter :P
18:51:26  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13981 /trunk/src/industry_map.h: -Fix [FS#AmmlersStillTooLazy]: Resetting construction stage counter reset more than it should.
18:52:32  <Ammler> sorry peter, but thanks :-)
18:53:19  <Ammler> just liked to ask, if that change might be the case:
18:53:42  <peter1138> Actually I got it wrong :p
18:54:01  <peter1138> Another two bits should be cleared...
18:54:07  <frosch123> Ammler: indirect yes
18:54:36  <peter1138> Didn't realise that there are *two* counters :o
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18:56:57  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13982 /trunk/src/industry_map.h: -Fix (r13981): And then not enough was cleared...
18:57:05  * peter1138 hides
18:57:23  <peter1138> Oh well, at least I fix my mistakes...
18:57:25  <peter1138> @seen bjarni
18:57:25  <DorpsGek> peter1138: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 12 hours, 16 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I was supposed to shut down and leave :s
18:57:36  <Celestar> peter1138: any news? :D
18:57:49  <peter1138> Have been sorting out the smallmap code...
18:57:54  <peter1138> So not really
18:57:59  <Celestar> great I've been out :P
18:58:11  <ln> aha! so Bjarni is a robot after all!
18:58:33  <frosch123> <- phew, that took longer than expected
18:58:39  <Celestar> peter1138: did you run into any crashes recently?
19:00:09  <Noldo> is more uptodate that earlier?
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19:00:59  <peter1138> In theory it is always current.
19:01:09  <peter1138> It is at the moment.
19:01:09  <Rubidium> Noldo: earlier as in like a week or more ago?
19:01:11  <Rubidium> then yes
19:01:11  <peter1138> Celestar, no.
19:01:12  *** KillaloT [] has quit []
19:01:25  <Noldo> Rubidium: great
19:02:35  <Ammler> peter1138: would we need to remove all oil rigs to be safe from that bug?
19:02:39  <Celestar> peter1138: that sounds good
19:02:39  *** trainboy2004 [] has joined #openttd
19:02:50  <Celestar> peter1138: I'll give the paxdest generation some tries tomorrow
19:02:56  <planetmaker> Ammler: it was a forrest...
19:02:58  <peter1138> Ammler, er... it's fixed...
19:03:12  <Ammler> yeah, but not in the nightly :-)
19:03:30  *** trainboy2004 [] has quit []
19:03:49  <Celestar> peter1138: I'll be on the road from friday on for about a fortnight, I'd love to have most things done by then (=
19:04:12  <Celestar> what the hell happened to the Sourceforge download counters?
19:04:23  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r13983 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13953) [YAPP]: Crashed trains can be on different trackbits. Make sure there is still a track reservation when one vehicle is cleaned up.
19:05:01  <Rubidium> Celestar: they killed the stats because they are moving servers and the stats servers are now in California and the main servers in Chicago and apparantly that generated too much traffic
19:05:14  <Celestar> Rubidium: :S
19:05:51  <Rubidium> imo it's a lousy reason as they should've moved the stats servers too
19:05:54  <Celestar> Rubidium: I'm seriously thinking about having a loook at autoreplace when I return
19:06:13  <Rubidium> please take a look at multistop first ;)
19:06:30  <Celestar> Rubidium: with DRRS?
19:06:33  <frosch123> Celestar: already started
19:06:41  <frosch123> multistop is your job :p
19:06:47  <Celestar> frosch123: what did start? autoreplace overhaul?
19:06:49  <Rubidium> Celestar: more DTRS ;)
19:06:54  <Celestar> Rubidium: er yeah
19:07:09  <Celestar> Rubidium: somehow, multistop was never adapted to DTRS (=
19:07:10  <frosch123> Celestar: yup autoreplace
19:07:18  <Celestar> Rubidium: I'll have a look at it then
19:08:21  *** Fennec [~ff@] has joined #openttd
19:09:25  <Celestar> frosch123: are you working on it?
19:09:32  <frosch123> yup
19:09:38  * Celestar smiles happily
19:09:47  <Roujin> hmm, can't find anything on flyspray's wiki nor flyspray's flyspray regarding if and when that XML RPC feature was altered/removed...
19:09:52  <Celestar> frosch123: planning an overhaul or a rewrite?
19:09:55  <Fennec> hello worlds :)
19:10:00  <Celestar> hey Fennec
19:10:27  <frosch123> Celestar: If you encounter 500 lines of code if 5-6 serious bugs by design, how would you decide :p
19:10:29  <Roujin> wow, didn't know the openttd irc channel was actually a multiverse... "worlds" :D
19:10:38  <frosch123> s/if/with/
19:11:45  <Celestar> frosch123: rm -rf ?
19:11:58  <frosch123> :)
19:12:22  <peter1138> Rubidium, we'll quote him on that ;)
19:12:32  <peter1138> Oh damn, scrolled back :o
19:12:59  <Celestar> quote who on what?
19:13:11  <Noldo> what is DTRS?
19:13:23  <glx> drive ...
19:13:24  <peter1138> Drive through road stop.
19:13:37  <Noldo> aaah
19:15:51  <Eddi|zuHause2> that one was rather obvious ;)
19:17:04  <Rubidium> Roujin: just check 0.9.8 and and search for files with xmlrpc in their name; the former will give you four files, the latter none
19:17:22  <Fennec> random question for people. On large maps, with many industries: is it just my selective perception, or do most of those industries seem to have very low cargo generation rates? (like, "32 tons of iron ore a month"-low instead of 112ish)
19:17:56  <Rubidium> Roujin: <- tells you why xmlrpc got removed
19:20:53  <Celestar> peter1138: the larger your network grows, the more difficult it gets. it's kind of fun :D
19:21:08  <Celestar> peter1138: <= I just have a dozen of stations
19:22:07  * Fennec observes in fascination.
19:22:17  <Fennec> which GRF set is that? :)
19:22:31  <Celestar> Fennec: DBSetXL and TTRS 3
19:22:45  <Rubidium> Fennec: it's likely because most industries won't be services which make them "prefer" the lower production rates
19:22:53  <Celestar> plus YAPP plus cargodestinations
19:22:54  <frosch123> Fennec: And transparent houses are turned on
19:23:22  <Fennec> cargodestinations?
19:23:40  * Fennec looks this up
19:23:46  <Celestar> Fennec: cargo doesn't wanna go "somewhere" anymore, but to a specific destination.
19:23:54  <Celestar> it's not in the repo yet (=
19:23:55  <Fennec> hmm
19:23:57  <Fennec> ah
19:24:02  <Celestar> meh
19:24:06  <Fennec> I seem to recall SimuTrans being a lot like that
19:24:21  <Roujin> Rubidium: thanks for the links
19:24:26  <Celestar> I don't get this computer below 14W of power draw in opensuse :S
19:25:07  * Fennec hasn't played Simutrans in ages, though; too clunky.
19:26:48  *** weirdy [] has joined #openttd
19:26:54  <weirdy> 'oly shiz
19:27:55  <weirdy> :/ lots of people, but no talking
19:28:00  <weirdy> how very boring
19:28:02  <Celestar> ?
19:28:14  <Celestar> we're not a bunch o babblebags :P
19:28:26  <weirdy> so?
19:28:54  <Celestar> we're just coding (=
19:29:15  <Noldo> I really don't get people who asume there is someone waiting for them to enter the channel 24/7
19:29:39  <weirdy> Noldo: neither do i
19:29:45  <weirdy> it really annoys me
19:29:51  <Celestar> hm 16-17W seems normal
19:30:07  <Celestar> not good :(
19:30:07  <weirdy> they come shooting in, ask questions, wait a minute or two, and bugger off
19:30:29  *** LilDood [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:33:07  <peter1138> Celestar, on standy or regular use?
19:34:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i'm not sure if i want to know what my computer takes...
19:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause2> and i don't really have any faith in the opensuse power management...
19:35:23  * peter1138 mumbles about a Q6600 and a 8800GT not being exactly power friendly...
19:36:06  <Prof_Frink> Get an Atom!
19:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> i have some Athlon thingie and a Radeon 9700
19:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause2> "Auf zum Atem!"
19:37:05  <Eddi|zuHause2> [if i only knew this joke in english...]
19:37:06  <Prof_Frink> Ariel Atom.
19:37:07  <ln> weirdy: elaborate
19:37:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> [it's from the simpsons, you would probably know it :p]
19:38:01  <weirdy> ln: wut?
19:38:09  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause2: Up and at'em!
19:38:22  <Celestar> peter1138: regular use. chatting, emails ...
19:38:33  <Celestar> peter1138: about 40W max
19:38:36  <peter1138> Hmm, 16-17W is very low.
19:38:46  <Celestar> peter1138: it's a laptop ;)
19:38:48  <peter1138> Though you're probably talking about a laptop...
19:38:49  <Celestar> peter1138: I don't own desktop
19:38:53  <peter1138> Even so...
19:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: there are probably a lot of implications in that phrase that i, as a foreign speaker, can never really gather...
19:44:16  <Celestar> peter1138: 19W with full brightness
19:44:18  <Prof_Frink> No, it's just a pun on Atom.
19:44:30  *** Purno [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:44:52  <Celestar> class foo { protected: const int blah; }; class bar : public foo {}; int main () { int somevar = 42; foo *x = new foo(somevar); // x->blah should be 42 now } <= how do I do this?
19:45:36  <peter1138> const int?
19:45:42  <Celestar> yeah
19:45:55  <Rubidium> you can only do that with templates
19:45:59  <Celestar> peter1138: m_cargo_type should actually be const .. it's set only once (on construction)
19:46:07  <peter1138> Ok
19:46:25  <SmatZ> Celestar: try to set it in constructor
19:46:44  <SmatZ> like foo::foo(int a) : blah(a) { }
19:47:14  <Celestar> er sorry wrong stuff
19:47:22  <Celestar> class foo { protected: const int blah; }; class bar : public foo {}; int main () { int somevar = 42; bar *x = new bar(somevar); // x->blah should be 42 now } <= how do I do this?
19:48:02  <SmatZ> impossible
19:48:11  <Eddi|zuHause2> Prof_Frink: well, the pure obscurity of the translation may make it a different level of funny...
19:48:12  <Fennec> blah::blah (int somevar) { this->blah = somevar; }  ?
19:48:29  <SmatZ> bar::bar() can't set variables belonging to foo in the contructor initialization
19:48:33  <SmatZ> or how is it called
19:48:41  <Fennec> x is a bar
19:49:04  <Fennec> eh, I can't read through all that on one line and my C++ is a trifle rusty :)
19:49:22  <Celestar> SmatZ: thought so
19:49:36  <Celestar> SmatZ: damn
19:49:44  <Celestar> so m_cargo_type stays non-const.
19:50:20  <peter1138> Use a const accessor?
19:50:42  <Celestar> peter1138: I need to set it once. somehow
19:50:45  <Celestar> I can't
19:51:00  <Celestar> I can only set it in foo's default constructor
19:51:04  <Celestar> well there IS a workaround
19:51:14  <Celestar> set a global variable to whatever "blah" should be
19:51:33  <Celestar> and then set blah to said global variable on calling foo's default constructor
19:51:40  <peter1138> No.
19:51:48  <SmatZ> hmm if you could create  foo::foo(int a) : blah(a) { }
19:51:58  <SmatZ> and then call bar::bar(int a) : foo(a) { }
19:52:12  <SmatZ> I think it could work... but I am not a C++ guy :)
19:53:13  * Fennec hasn't done C++ in over a year.
19:53:20  <Fennec> mostly just Perl.
19:53:30  <peter1138> That seems to work.
19:54:36  <Fennec> hmm
19:54:43  <peter1138> /home/petern/ottd/routing/src/routing.cpp:168: error: assignment of read-only data-member ‘RoutingBase_t::m_cargo_type’
19:54:55  <peter1138> Celestar: works fine, want me to commit?
19:54:56  <Fennec>   <--- good lord
19:55:05  <Fennec> you people are insane :)
19:55:11  <Fennec> I approve.
19:55:13  <peter1138> Don't believe anything the openttdcoop people say.
19:55:30  <Fennec> haha
19:55:50  <Prof_Frink> The coop is a lie!
19:56:06  <SmatZ> Fennec: this is #openttd, not #openttdcoop or so
19:56:13  <peter1138> Celestar,
19:56:13  * Fennec nodnods.
19:56:23  <Fennec> you do more development work stuffs?
19:56:44  <Fennec> or just "we're not -coop"?
19:56:56  * Fennec will make a note to be more careful about the distinctions in the future.
19:57:22  <peter1138> We deal with making things beautiful.
19:57:28  <peter1138> Then they go and mess it all up.
19:57:53  <Eddi|zuHause2> they are evil
19:58:03  <SmatZ> they are very fine :)
19:58:08  <glx> they always find bugs
19:58:13  <peter1138> Celestar, poke?
19:58:14  <SmatZ> and that's useful
19:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause2> they are very evil
19:58:17  <Prof_Frink> Fennec: If you want proof that his is not #openttdcoop, try !password
19:58:22  <SmatZ> :-)
19:58:39  <Fennec> :)
19:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause2> (:
19:59:15  <Prof_Frink> :o)
19:59:29  <SmatZ> (^:
19:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause2> (·)
19:59:48  <Prof_Frink> Calm down, orudge
20:02:50  <Forked> ¯\(º_o)/¯
20:02:53  <Forked> I win
20:03:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> you should get that checked...
20:03:37  * SmatZ thinks if Forked really wants his prise :)
20:03:43  <frosch123> Forked: without nose ? I doubt
20:03:48  <SmatZ> hehe
20:03:51  <Forked> _ <-
20:04:00  <peter1138> Forked is prised open?
20:08:26  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... Avidemux has too many deinterlace filters... i cannot decide which one to use
20:09:52  *** Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:09:52  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13984 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Simplify industry legend on small map, by automatically splitting columns based on widget height.
20:10:37  <Mchl>  <Forked> ¯\(º_o)/¯ <- a zombie?
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20:14:19  <frosch123> peter1138: do you really want to make the legend that high?
20:14:29  <Forked> Mchl: not really defined
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20:20:07  <peter1138> How high is that high?
20:20:23  <frosch123> the height increased by about 50%
20:20:54  <peter1138> Depends on the number of industries.
20:21:10  <peter1138> And yes, I know it's taller than with 3 columns, but 3 columns did not fit.
20:21:33  <frosch123> oh, did not knew it depends on number of industries
20:21:55  <peter1138> With default industries there is no change :)
20:22:10  <peter1138> With ECS... who knows ;)
20:22:49  <Fennec> ecs is too weird for me :_)
20:22:50  * frosch123 tested with full ecs
20:23:21  <peter1138> Simple enough to change it back to 3 if wanted, but the legend overlaying the buttons when the window is small was bugging me.
20:23:54  <peter1138> Maybe work out the column width needed :)
20:23:57  <Rubidium> so you silently fixed a bug?
20:24:13  <Rubidium> FS#1858 to be precise
20:24:16  <peter1138> Er, whoops
20:24:31  <peter1138> To honest by the time I'd sorted out my changes I'd forgotten about the 3 -> 2 change...
20:25:47  <frosch123> <- the default size looks a bit weird now
20:25:58  <peter1138> Er... yes :)
20:26:03  <peter1138> And the industry one?
20:26:30  <frosch123>
20:27:27  <peter1138> Hmm, don't think you can fit three columns in the minimum size with the length of some of those.
20:27:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> can you increase the number of colums with window size?
20:27:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> and remember the last size? ;)
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20:29:08  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause2, er, possible, though it might be a bit odd...
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20:35:51  <Fennec> oh snap
20:36:14  * Fennec just found out about the 'share orders' instead of 'copy orders' doohickey
20:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause2> congratulations ;)
20:36:42  * Fennec emits hallelujiahs.
20:36:57  <Fennec> (amazing what reading the help file every few months will do :P)
20:37:34  <Rubidium> if you did that you would've known this feature many years ago
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20:41:06  <Fennec> my play's been erratic :P
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20:50:25  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r13985 /trunk/src/yapf/yapf_destrail.hpp: -Fix (r13944): gcc 2.95 compilation
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20:52:28  <Eddi|zuHause2> why do we still support this ancient crap?
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20:53:42  <SmatZ> because MorphOS
20:55:58  <peter1138> SmatZ, question still stands ;)
20:56:11  <SmatZ> hehe
20:57:17  <Forked> Is there a way to disable 90 degree turns with YAPF?
20:57:35  <glx> yes, it's the same switch as NPF
20:57:53  <Forked> claims it requires NPF?
20:58:05  <glx> because nobody changed that :)
20:58:06  <SmatZ> ancient string, ignore it :-P
20:58:11  <Forked> ahh
20:58:12  <Forked> okies
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21:02:08  <glx> peter1138: still miss virtual ~RoutingBase_t() {}
21:03:27  <peter1138> Why can't all compilers follow the proper rules...?
21:04:01  <glx> I use an "old" one (3.4.5)
21:04:11  *** lobster [~michielbi@] has joined #openttd
21:05:14  <peter1138> Okay, if we drop the column size by 4 pixels then 3 columns fits exactly into the smallmap window's start up width...
21:05:55  <peter1138> Could just make that the minimum size...
21:07:26  <Ammler> [22:57] <Forked> claims it requires NPF? <-- NPF or newer...
21:09:43  <Wolf01> uh, I can't build an airport because... I don't know... the noise limit is 0, the city doesn't have other airports... and it says I'm not allowed to build another one airport for that city
21:10:31  <glx> how is your rating in the town?
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21:11:41  <SmatZ> Wolf01: try building it further from the city centre
21:12:27  <Wolf01> ok, was noise limit, I demolished the old airport to move it but now I noticed that the noise generated was too much for that city
21:12:58  <Wolf01> that's because the old airport was placed before the noise limit introduction
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21:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause2> paxdest would help with placing airports ;)
21:17:16  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
21:26:45  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause2: They already do :P
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21:28:52  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:33:22  *** Mchl [] has quit [Quit: good night]
21:38:14  <peter1138>
21:39:55  <peter1138> Which Eddi|zuHause2 must test RIGHT NOW
21:40:04  <Eddi|zuHause2> i what?
21:40:26  <peter1138> 21:25  Eddi|zuHause2> can you increase the number of colums with window size?
21:40:31  <peter1138> ^ yes...
21:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> i said that. yes.
21:41:06  <glx> now try the patch ;)
21:41:39  <peter1138> Hmm, needs a SetDirty...
21:42:23  <Eddi|zuHause2> in german we say "ein alter Mann ist doch kein D-Zug"...
21:42:24  <Prof_Frink> Dirty.
21:42:57  <Roujin> he's not asking you to deliver cargo from a station to another, but to test a patch :P
21:43:31  <Roujin> so, it doesn't really care if you're a D-Zug or not ^_^
21:44:35  <Eddi|zuHause2> compiling is somewhat slower if you are converting video in the background...
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21:47:56  <Eddi|zuHause2> ">= 42" <- a magic number?
21:52:10  *** Osai is now known as Osai^vacation
21:53:13  <Eddi|zuHause2> hm... it does reduce the number of columns when you lower the size, but it does not increase when you make the window bigger
21:59:59  <peter1138> Reload :)
22:01:50  *** LilDood [] has quit [Quit: Take my advice. I don't use it anyway]
22:02:52  <Eddi|zuHause2> looks nice ;)
22:04:33  *** TinoM| [] has quit [Quit: Verlassend]
22:04:38  <peter1138> Next trick... making it larger only for the industry selection...
22:04:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> the mouse cursor kinda loses "focus" of the resize button ;)
22:05:14  <peter1138> It does, but at least it is still selected.
22:05:44  <peter1138> The same happens for any other size-restricted window.
22:06:20  <Eddi|zuHause2> i never noticed... but it's fine
22:09:17  <peter1138> OH YES...
22:09:44  <peter1138> Reload if you can be bothered ;)
22:10:42  * peter1138 > sleep
22:11:40  <Eddi|zuHause2> this is just code reshuffling, i presume
22:12:20  <peter1138> Reshuffling, so that it can be used twice.
22:12:33  <peter1138> Now only the industry view is larger
22:13:02  <Eddi|zuHause2> yeah
22:13:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> looks good ;)
22:13:44  * peter1138 > sleep(28800)
22:17:10  * Rubidium wonders what the return type of sleep is given the instance peter1138 ;)
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22:21:49  <SmatZ> static inline bool operator > (OpenTTDDeveloper dev, uint val) { return true; }
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22:31:19  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: truebrain * r13986 /branches/noai/src/ai/ai_info.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: don't allocate too much memory (I keep having problems with MallocT ... -- TrueBrain) (Yexo)
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22:36:19  <Eddi|zuHause2> "I go away for a few days and when I come back YAPP is in trunk!? Woooo!!!" <- i am really tempted to place "maybe you should go away more often" below that: p
22:36:52  <Tekky> :)
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22:39:37  <Fennec> Eddi|zuHause2: with a proper ;)
22:40:07  <Eddi|zuHause2> i is serious cat.
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22:40:56  <Fennec> hmm.
22:41:29  <Fennec> my routes must be too long; I'm only making a profit on these trains every /other/ year :)
22:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause2> increase daylength ;)
22:42:01  <Fennec> howzat?
22:42:25  <Eddi|zuHause2> with the daylength patch, i presume...
22:42:48  <Fennec> oh :)
22:43:01  <SmatZ> wait until you have faster trains available
22:43:04  * Fennec has a vanilla game right now. mebbe. :)
22:43:11  <Fennec> eh, is no big deal.
22:44:42  <Eddi|zuHause2> you can keep daylength savegames loadable in trunk, if you don't save the patch setting in the game
22:45:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> sideeffects are that the game does not remember the setting, gets it from the .cfg instead
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22:53:33  <Brianetta> Got a YAPP bug
22:55:44  <SmatZ> no!
22:56:27  <Fennec> gaspitude
22:57:57  <Rubidium> Brianetta: PEBCAS ;)
22:57:59  <Brianetta> It's OK, it's replicable and perfectly avoidable.
22:58:14  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Our office uses PEBKAC
22:58:14  <SmatZ> what kind of bug?
22:58:28  <Brianetta>
22:58:30  <Brianetta> Documented there
22:58:41  <Rubidium> yeah, but keyboard and silicon aren't the same
22:58:50  <Brianetta> Keyboard and chair
22:59:13  <Brianetta> Only one thing links them
22:59:26  <Brianetta> Let's not allow any ambiguity
22:59:31  <SmatZ> Brianetta: update, it should be fixed in r13973
22:59:51  <SmatZ> at least it worked for me :)
22:59:52  <Brianetta> Cool.
22:59:59  *** Gekz [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:00:22  <Rubidium> Brianetta: but PEBKAC is a subset of PEBCAS
23:00:30  <Brianetta> yes
23:00:39  <Brianetta> and more widely used, afaict
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23:02:55  <DJNekkid> arent a grf-file supposed to handle extended bytes (\b*<dec>) in action 0-1-3-4?
23:04:08  <DJNekkid> or is it just nforenum that complains?
23:04:59  <Eddi|zuHause2> NFO accepts extended bytes exactly where it says it does
23:06:05  <DJNekkid> according to the wikipages: In OpenTTD since r13482, each ID is an extended byte for vehicles, otherwise the ID is a regular byte.
23:06:09  <DJNekkid> on the action3 page
23:06:39  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause2> then maybe nforenum was not updated
23:07:44  <DJNekkid> hmm, seems it's just renum that is complaing
23:07:50  <DJNekkid> it actually works :)
23:07:58  <DJNekkid> sry for that
23:08:06  *** bleepy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:08:56  <DJNekkid> yea, definately just that
23:09:12  <Eddi|zuHause2> nforenum is not the final instance to decide correctness of NFO ;)
23:11:28  <DJNekkid> nope ...
23:11:31  <DJNekkid> so it seems :)
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