Log for #openttd on 4th August 2008:
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05:25:24  <peter1138> Hm
05:27:12  <peter1138> Well, bollocks.
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06:00:29  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13987 /trunk/src/ (smallmap_gui.cpp widget.cpp): -Codechange: Resize small map legend dynamically on window resize and when switching small map types, so that the legend is taller only on the industry type and only when the legend will not fit in the available space.
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06:16:17  <Celestar> morning
06:16:46  <peter1138> Hi
06:17:07  <peter1138> I just synced with trunk in case you want / are able to pull...
06:17:47  <Celestar> I am :D
06:17:56  <Celestar> hey! I wanted to constify m_cargo_type :P
06:18:04  <peter1138> :p
06:18:38  <peter1138> I've got a bit of a problem though.
06:19:12  <peter1138> I've got to go back to work today, and after two weeks there'll be a lot of catching up to do :o
06:19:22  <Celestar> :(
06:19:24  <Celestar> what problem?
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06:20:47  <peter1138> I'll try leaving my PC on so I can fiddle remotely, but the ADSL tends to drop when I go out...
06:21:33  <Celestar> you can pull from my PC (=
06:22:42  <Celestar> I could give you a login but it's a slowish box
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06:26:38  <peter1138> Just cloned onto a mostly idle PC at work with a fast connection...
06:26:49  <peter1138> So I can fiddle there ;)
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06:27:10  <Celestar> (=
06:27:15  <Celestar> hm :S
06:27:27  <peter1138> Hmm, 65MB...
06:28:51  <Celestar> peter1138: pull (=
06:30:22  <Celestar> peter1138: if we arrive a station and the acceptence changed, do we go to INVALID_STATION do we assign a new destination?
06:31:41  <peter1138> You could even send them back home, hehehe
06:32:13  <peter1138> INVALID_STATION, probably.
06:34:38  * Celestar nods
06:40:59  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm trying to teach the routing class to handle the unload
06:41:02  <Celestar> not economy.coo
06:41:04  <Celestar> cpp*
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07:16:40  <Celestar> heh .. much cleaner
07:16:45  <Celestar> question is: does it work :P
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07:17:35  <Celestar> /home/vici/openttd-cargodest/src/routing.cpp:690: error: passing ‘const CargoList’ as ‘this’ argument of ‘bool CargoList::MoveTo(CargoList*, uint, CargoID, CargoList::MoveToAction, uint, const Vehicle*)’ discards qualifiers
07:17:39  <Celestar> gnaah
07:17:47  <Celestar> I'm not passing a const CargoList you diphead
07:19:25  <Noldo> are you sure
07:20:42  <Celestar> nope :P
07:20:45  <Celestar> not yet at least
07:21:19  <Celestar> but I don't see the const
07:24:27  <Celestar> :S
07:24:30  <Celestar> the compiler won
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07:25:25  <Wolf01> hello
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07:26:21  <Celestar> hey Wolf01
07:29:11  <Celestar> peter1138: ping
07:29:53  <Celestar> peter1138: RFC
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07:59:19  <Celestar> peter1138: any comments?
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08:44:23  <Celestar> peter1138: uploaded new diff
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09:16:27  <peter1138> Hmm
09:17:24  <peter1138> Celestar, char result -> uint8 result
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09:19:50  <peter1138> Or better yet
09:19:53  <peter1138> an enum
09:20:05  <peter1138> with names instead of magic numbers ;)
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09:26:37  <Celestar> yeah I'm planning to do this too (=
09:26:48  <Celestar> peter1138: I've tried some distance-based destination generation
09:28:31  <Celestar> peter1138: you don't have time for testing today, have you?
09:35:53  <Celestar> peter1138:
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09:54:10  <dih> does it make sense that nicknames in the game can contain ':' ?
09:54:24  <dih> there is like no character limit on the nickname
09:54:43  <dih> which makes it hard to follow chat when looking at the server console
09:55:01  <dih> because you dont know if the guy is names foobar: fish
09:55:10  <dih> or just said fish: hello
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10:02:48  <peter1138> Celestar, no I don't.
10:08:02  <Brianetta>
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10:20:54  <Celestar> peter1138: tram networks are AWESOME
10:22:39  <peter1138> Do your transfers work now? :D
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10:22:58  <Celestar> peter1138: apparently
10:22:59  <Celestar> (=
10:23:04  <peter1138> :D :D
10:23:10  <Celestar> I'm just testing it
10:23:48  <Celestar>
10:24:17  <peter1138> Be nicer if it wasn't all transparent :p
10:24:35  <peter1138> Try an out of town airport with no acceptance...
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10:25:25  <Celestar> will do next
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10:26:03  <Celestar> peter1138: the detailed analysis is TOTALLY useless
10:26:28  <Celestar> peter1138:
10:26:48  <peter1138> Might be better when sorted.
10:27:12  <Celestar> *might* ;)
10:27:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> i still need reduced passenger generation :(
10:27:30  <peter1138> Yes, that too.
10:27:46  <peter1138> It's always rather high with TTRS.
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10:27:54  <peter1138> We need someone to compare it in TTDPatch...
10:28:03  <peter1138> If it does the same then it's a GRF bug ;)
10:28:48  <peter1138> Celestar, I think we should keep the full list in, though. Someone is bound to want it.
10:29:13  <peter1138> Also it would be nice if next-hop actually showed when passengers are leaving the vehicle instead of literally the next-hop
10:29:20  <peter1138> s/when/where/
10:30:16  <peter1138> Don't know if that's possible though.
10:30:34  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: no it works better now
10:30:41  <Roujin> wow, you were that far with cargo destinations?
10:30:49  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: passengers are much more likely to go to nearby stations
10:30:56  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: so they won't clog your network that much
10:30:57  <Celestar> Roujin: yes
10:31:07  <Roujin> that's awesome :)
10:31:15  <Celestar> 5 items left on TODO for now
10:31:17  <Roujin> congrats
10:31:55  <peter1138> The route map will have toggleable cargo legend, just like the industry view.
10:31:59  <Kloopy> PBS -and- awesome progression on cargodests.. you're all on fire! :D
10:32:08  <peter1138> Hence me tidying up the smallmap window in trunk :D
10:32:12  <Roujin> holy sh!t, first yapp goes into trunk and cargo destinations is that much progressed - w00t!
10:32:26  <trainboy2004> :)
10:32:27  <peter1138> Roujin, well, we started from scratch ;)
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10:33:20  <Roujin> noAI is progressing nicely too - if that's all going to be in 0.7, that's a giant leap O_O
10:33:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> after you realised that the community attempts are all going to fail...
10:33:39  <Chrill> hey, the DBset, is it still a WIP?
10:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> Chrill: yes, MB is still working on a 0.9 version
10:34:09  <Eddi|zuHause3> Chrill: check his thread in the forum
10:34:10  <trainboy2004> cool :)
10:34:21  <Chrill> ah :) I did but it was a mess and the first post contained no info
10:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> the first post is like 5 years old...
10:34:37  <Roujin> but you can use the current version too..
10:34:44  <Chrill> My point exactly, Eddi|zuHause3
10:34:46  <Roujin> it's kinda old now though
10:34:58  <Chrill> Roujin, also my point exactly. Am using 0.82 or similar
10:35:00  <peter1138> Roujin, yeah, we might have to skip 0.7 altogether and go direct to 0.8 ...
10:35:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> you'll find more current information towards the end of that thread ;)
10:35:31  <Roujin> Eddi: that's the case generally in forums :P
10:36:24  <Noldo> peter1138: what a waste of good version numbers
10:36:34  <trainboy2004>
10:36:40  <Chrill> What's the best RVset if you're looking into something with real trucks in many shapes? :P Say, like LV4 but with a bigger selection of trucks, as well as perhaps them not being "Long"
10:36:55  <trainboy2004> here's a list with stuff released in 0.9
10:36:59  <Celestar> peter1138: but yes, with that patch the "nonaccepting airport" scenario works
10:37:07  <Chrill> thankoo
10:37:19  <trainboy2004> somewhere in the middle of the page
10:37:27  <Celestar> peter1138: shall I commit?
10:39:11  <Celestar> Roujin: wanna test it? ;)
10:39:38  <Celestar> what else should be in openttd 0.7? ;)
10:39:41  <Roujin> Celestar: sure, I'm in :D
10:39:58  <Ammler> Celestar: cbh :-)
10:40:08  <Chrill> Will 0.7 support multiple trainsets/RVsets/etc.? :P
10:40:11  <Roujin> Celestar: newgrf ports? :P
10:40:24  <Celestar> Chrill: it's already in
10:40:25  <Ammler> Chrill: already in trunk...
10:40:26  <Chrill> or does 0.6.2 already do that?
10:40:29  <Chrill> hah, im too slow
10:40:30  <Celestar> Roujin: thinking of that
10:40:31  <Roujin> not 0.6.*
10:40:33  <Celestar> not sure whether it is 0.6*
10:40:34  <Roujin> but trunk
10:40:35  <Chrill> well well
10:40:44  <Wolf01> do you think is possible to separate the vehicle list of a station in vehicles with loading and unloading order at that station? or at least sort the list by load/unload/transfer/non-stop
10:41:09  <Roujin> it was trunked after 0.6.0, and 0.6.* are usually only fixes, no (big) features
10:41:56  <Chrill> so then it will be in 0.7.*
10:41:59  <Chrill> yes? :P
10:42:32  <Roujin> it should be unless it turns out it seriously broke something and has to be taken out and reimplemented
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10:42:45  <Celestar> Roujin: do you have mercurial?
10:43:12  <Celestar> Roujin:
10:43:26  <Roujin> nope, only subversion
10:43:41  <Roujin> can it export a svn diff somehow?
10:43:47  <Vikthor> Roujin: get mercurial, I assure you it is eorth it
10:43:52  <Vikthor> *worth
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10:44:22  <Celestar> Roujin: you on linux?
10:44:29  <Roujin> nope, windows
10:44:52  <Roujin> using mingw/msys/gcc to compile usually :P
10:45:05  <Celestar> ah
10:45:09  <Celestar> get mercurial (=
10:45:16  <Celestar> then "hg pull <above_URL>
10:45:21  <Celestar> er
10:45:23  <Celestar> hg clone..
10:46:00  <Roujin> on my way ;)
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10:47:48  <Celestar> I can start a network server and you could play and we see if we get desyncs (=
10:50:01  <Vikthor> Hmm openttd-hg $ hg pull
10:50:01  <Vikthor> abort: repository not found!
10:50:09  <Celestar> Vikthor: http://
10:50:42  <Celestar> that works (=
10:51:04  <Vikthor> aha, thanks:D I was really puzzled, beacuse yesterday it was working alright
10:53:01  <Roujin> ooh, there also exists a turtoise for mercurial ^_^
10:53:46  <Roujin> i was afraid of losing the luxury from turtoisesvn :P
10:53:55  <Roujin> brb in a minute..
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10:55:03  <peter1138> hg: unknown command 'branch'
10:55:03  <peter1138> /bin/sh: line 0: [: too many arguments
10:55:04  <peter1138> :o
10:55:32  <bleepy> fail
10:55:58  <peter1138> Yes, fails to compile :(
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10:58:35  <Celestar> peter1138: what fails to compile?
10:59:20  <peter1138> The makefile does not work with the version of hg i have... And that's on etch.
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11:02:25  <Brianetta> dvcs are good
11:02:27  <bleepy> I have no idea what that means
11:02:30  <bleepy> :(
11:02:45  <Brianetta> distributed version control system
11:03:01  <bleepy> ohhhh
11:03:07  <Roujin> svn is a centralized system right?
11:03:08  <bleepy> yeah, still in one ear, out t'other
11:03:09  <Brianetta> It's like SVN, except when you check out a repo, you can commit changes locally, and roll them back incrementally
11:03:20  <Brianetta> Roujin: Totoally, yes
11:03:39  <Brianetta> Only local operation is revert
11:03:42  <Roujin> Brianetta: aha that's a nice feature
11:03:49  <Brianetta> (to currently checked out revision)
11:04:01  <Roujin> was wondering what the gain compared to svn was...
11:04:25  <Brianetta> You can check out, say, OpenTTD, then use your local copy to develop a feature
11:04:30  <Brianetta> over as many revisions as you need
11:04:44  <Brianetta> Once you're done, you can check in a grand diff
11:05:05  <Brianetta> or make a big patch file and send it, if the source is read-only to you
11:05:13  <Celestar> and you get all the logs
11:05:13  <SpComb> or have someone pull from you
11:05:31  <Brianetta> thing is, if you don't have SVN commit access, you can't play, then revert a little if there was a mistake
11:05:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> the info screen of a vehicle lacks a description where the cargo is going to...
11:05:38  <Brianetta> SpComb: Yes
11:05:44  <SpComb> although then if you check out e.g. the linux git repo, you need to pull in 2GB of history
11:05:57  <SpComb> a `hg clone` of the OpenTTD repo is also a lot slower than a `svn co`
11:06:20  <Roujin> yes i just noticed that ^^
11:06:32  <Rubidium> but making a second "checkout", i.e. branch is much quicker
11:06:36  <Roujin> was wondering why it took so long but thanks to your explanations thats clear to me now
11:06:48  <Rubidium> as is checking the log
11:06:49  <Roujin> now it's finished :D
11:06:52  <Roujin> "added 19455 changesets with 43071 changes to 1558 files"
11:07:25  <Rubidium> now hg log will show you all trunk revisions since svn r1 ;)
11:08:00  <Brianetta> Which do the devs use?  I'm presuming that using either, arbitrarily, would complicate matters.
11:08:09  <SpComb> and a `hg convert svn://...` is just a very bad idea
11:08:12  <Ammler> why are there so many more changesets as the svn rev is?
11:08:13  <Vikthor> Rubidium: which r1?
11:08:34  <Rubidium> the r975-ish r1
11:08:38  <SpComb> Logs:
11:08:38  <Roujin> !logs
11:08:39  <Vikthor> the new, or the old?
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11:08:42  <Vikthor> ah
11:08:49  * Celestar still remember r700 of the OLD repo (=
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11:09:10  * Celestar is an old bastard
11:09:14  <Gekz> o.o!
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11:09:41  * SpComb still remembers the first release of OpenTTD that presumeably didn't even have an svn repo!
11:09:43  <Brianetta> I remember when tt-alter and ttdpatch were pretty much the same
11:10:06  <Brianetta> I remember ttdpatch version 2.0
11:10:23  <Roujin> Celestar: should i configure something special for your idea of having a network game to hunt for desyncs?
11:10:28  <Brianetta> in fact, I still have it somewhere
11:11:05  <SpComb> I also have the TTDPatch configuration thing that patchman's brother wrote (or something like that)
11:11:16  <Roujin> well I'm pretty new to OpenTTD compared to you guys, but I've read the old topics ^_^
11:11:28  <Ammler> Brianetta: isn't that the latest "stable", still?
11:11:28  <Chrill> Brianetta, you still have your lovely OpenTTD server up and running?
11:11:36  <Roujin> man, everyone was so hostile towards the project back then oO
11:11:58  <Celestar> Roujin: no we just hope they don't occur
11:12:06  <Celestar> Roujin: wait a sec I'll send you my newgrf pack
11:13:31  <Roujin> oops, somethings going wrong..
11:13:37  <Vikthor> Celestar:I might have found bug in 19454:ccae3e40e174, and I am able to reproduce it
11:14:03  <Roujin> d:/ottddev/cargodest/trunk/src/routing.h:50:42: boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp: No such file or directory
11:14:21  <Celestar> Roujin:
11:14:24  <Celestar> Roujin: you need to get boost
11:14:27  <Celestar>
11:15:08  <Ammler> Celestar: not compatible with coop pack?
11:15:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Brianetta> I remember ttdpatch version 2.0 <- my first ttdpatch version was 1.7 or something
11:15:16  <Celestar> Ammler: what do you mean?
11:15:39  * Chrill thinks his first OpenTTD version was 0.4.7
11:15:39  <Ammler> is your server running?
11:15:49  <Brianetta> Eddi: Before all this new-fangled 0.* versioning (:
11:16:23  <Ammler> Celestar: just wondering, if you have a GRF there, which is not in the coop pack...
11:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: still, the passengers appear to pile up more than without destinations
11:17:05  <Roujin> Celestar: the .tar only contains one file "celegrfs" with no extensions..? :/
11:17:28  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: much much much more
11:17:36  <Ammler> Roujin: your win hides the extension, maybe?
11:17:36  <Roujin> or should i try another compressing program then
11:17:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> and something is wrong..
11:17:41  <Roujin> Ammler: nope
11:17:49  <Celestar> Roujin: checking
11:17:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> of 90 coal at a station, only 13 have a destination
11:18:18  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: it couldn't find any destination for the rest
11:18:26  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: it's known, working on it
11:18:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> afair i only have one target station for coal
11:19:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> coal and wood have very similar line colours...
11:19:23  <Roujin> I'll probably go get 7z..
11:19:42  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: 1) yes, I know ^^, 2) that's the normal color
11:19:57  <Celestar> Roujin:
11:19:59  <Celestar> try those
11:21:23  <Roujin> that worked
11:21:27  <Roujin> thanks
11:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh... right... i remember... i still have my unconnected very first route somewhere, that is another coal target
11:22:03  <Celestar> Roujin: cooly
11:26:35  <Brianetta>
11:26:42  <Brianetta> Celestar: Not much going on there (:
11:27:37  <Brianetta> If you have your own web site, do feel free to nab you rbanner etc
11:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> sometimes delivery prices are highly inflated... once my tram makes +15, and the other time, my tram makes +24k
11:28:45  <Brianetta> In real life, who steers trams?
11:28:55  <Brianetta> Does the driver set the points ahead, or is it central?
11:29:02  <trainboy2004> depends
11:29:19  <Brianetta> This is a job for Wikipedia
11:29:23  <trainboy2004> jub
11:29:26  <Brianetta> This page is in the middle of an expansion or major revamping.
11:29:27  <Brianetta> arse
11:29:39  <trainboy2004> Vetag my friend
11:30:11  <Vikthor> Brianetta: Here it is the driver
11:30:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta: here, the driver sends signals to the switches
11:30:43  <Brianetta> There's no real signalling, then?  Just good brakes
11:31:14  <Eddi|zuHause3> trams must have braking distances comparable to other road vehicles
11:31:31  <Celestar> Brianetta: in munich, the driver controls the switches
11:31:38  <trainboy2004> depends light rails / trams
11:31:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> and trams have signals like road signals, just without the colours
11:31:44  <trainboy2004> do have real signals
11:31:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> and they recognise incoming trams automatically
11:31:57  <trainboy2004> but street trams like in amsterdam don't
11:32:13  <trainboy2004> they are just trafficlights and direction lights for the switches
11:32:28  <Eddi|zuHause3> yes, that's what i mean
11:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause3> trams must be able to stop at traffic lights, like trucks or cars
11:33:14  <Celestar> Brianetta: and you have lights: | (go); - (halt); v (stop); / (go right only); \ (go left only) and stuff. taxis/buses use them as well
11:33:16  <trainboy2004> jup
11:33:27  <Brianetta> That's just road signalling
11:33:49  <trainboy2004> some trafficlights are special they tranponders and there fore give trams priority above the rest
11:34:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> on switches, they often have precedence rules for trams coming from different directions
11:34:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> so, basically it is driving on sight
11:34:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> not really signalled
11:34:46  * Brianetta nods
11:34:51  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: but the first tram locks down the switch
11:35:04  <Celestar> and it's locked until it is freed again by the vehicle
11:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not sure how they handled that, here
11:36:11  <Celestar> there must be some locking
11:36:21  <Celestar> otherwise they'd derail all the time
11:36:29  <Celestar> Roujin: you connecting? (=
11:36:43  <Brianetta> Track circuit or pressure switches
11:37:18  <Kloopy> There was that teenager who worked out how the tram priority system worked in a real life city somehwere, wasn't there.. It was a simple infra-red device and he used a universal remote to alter all the lights in the city.
11:37:42  <Kloopy>
11:38:36  <Roujin> Celestar: currently unpacking boost...
11:38:44  <Celestar> ah
11:38:51  <Roujin> then wondering how exactly to use it ^_^
11:39:00  <Celestar> Brianetta: track circut afaik
11:39:04  <Celestar> at least from how they look
11:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: i have a feeling on transfer, some cargo is lost
11:42:41  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: possibly, bear in mind that some of the "transferring" cargo is actually destined for the station in question
11:42:53  <Roujin> holy ... the boost package has so many files it takes ages x_x
11:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: or this might be an instance of the non-accepting bug?
11:44:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> together with the cargo that does not get destionations...
11:44:11  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: the non-acceptance bug should be solved by now
11:44:17  <Celestar> Roujin: you only need the graph library (=
11:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause3> all i know is that only a very small fraction of wood that is delivered to my local transfer station ends up being loaded into the long distance cargo train
11:45:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> and so my entire network gets stuck, because of trains piling up
11:45:52  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: show me an example savegame please
11:46:03  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: or use -d routing=5,cargopacket=5
11:46:08  <Celestar> and see what happens (=
11:46:45  <Celestar> TTRS looks really nice in the 1930s
11:47:02  <Eddi|zuHause3>,%202.%20Jan%201972.sav
11:47:08  <Eddi|zuHause3> i hope ;)
11:47:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> find the station "RÃŒsselswald Waldfrieden"
11:47:37  <Eddi|zuHause3> enable destinations for all cargo
11:48:17  <Celestar> I'm timing out on that link ..
11:49:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> bad...
11:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> i can't do anything when the server is down..
11:50:53  <Celestar> don't sorry.
11:51:00  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: you got my latest changes right?
11:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> i did hg pull like an hour ago
11:51:56  <Celestar> 70 minutes ago was the last significate change
11:51:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> only a fraction (like 1/10) of the wood delivered to the transfer station ends up at the next train
11:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> pulling from
11:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> searching for changes
11:52:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> no changes found
11:53:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> server appears to work now
11:53:38  <Brianetta>
11:53:39  <Brianetta> That rocks
11:54:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> Brianetta: it's in the german RV set
11:54:48  <Brianetta> I was disappointed to find no valuables carriers in the Generic Trams set
11:56:10  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: found the problem
11:56:20  <Celestar> hmz
11:56:22  <Celestar> big problem
11:57:18  <trainboy2004> it's in the german RV pack
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11:57:25  <trainboy2004> the VW cargo tram
11:57:45  <trainboy2004> i can't w8 for the trucks ;)
12:00:25  <Wolf01> eeek, I tried the snow in temperate grf I had, it makes the game really weird and crashes
12:00:34  <Wolf01> there is a newer version of it?
12:02:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> i don't think snow in temperate is supported
12:02:41  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: I might have a diff for you in a minute
12:03:24  <Celestar> testing first
12:03:26  <Progman> Celestar, Eddi|zuHause3: how do you compile from "make" gives me "Makefile:81: *** multiple target patterns.  Stop."
12:03:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> Progman: i type "make" and it works...
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12:04:13  <Progman> I did and it doesn't ;)
12:04:48  <dih> Wolf01, if i am not mistaken that was used for the first wwottdgd
12:04:57  <Celestar> Progman: you did configure, did you not?
12:05:01  <Progman> yes
12:05:01  <dih> where we had hardcoded reagons
12:06:41  <Progman> aah, maybe I know...
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12:06:59  <Progman> yeah, working
12:07:18  <Progman> "make" failes if the checkout directory contains a ":"
12:08:12  <Roujin> since when does the makefile include an invalid grep command?
12:08:18  <Roujin> "grep: invalid option -- m" oO
12:10:04  <Eddi|zuHause3>   -m, --max-count=NUM       stop after NUM matches
12:10:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe you have an invalid grep ;)
12:10:44  <Celestar> hm .. damn
12:10:45  <Roujin> -m is not --m
12:10:51  <Roujin> i .. think ..
12:12:06  <Celestar> damn
12:12:15  <Celestar> we musn't generate packets without destinations
12:12:25  <peter1138> Ever?
12:12:30  <peter1138> Why not?
12:13:48  <Eddi|zuHause3> they apparently get lost during transfers
12:14:27  <peter1138> If it's a forced transfer they should transfer, otherwise they just unload like normal...
12:14:28  <Celestar> peter1138: simple: assume you have a forest at A, a forest at B and a sawmill at C
12:14:43  <Celestar> peter1138: you have a A<->B and B<->C
12:14:54  <Celestar> now B generates a packet without destination
12:15:06  <Celestar> a train from A arrives and boards said packet
12:15:19  <Celestar> and then starts to shuffle the packet around from A to B all the time
12:16:01  <peter1138> No different to how it works in trunk... hmm...
12:16:10  <peter1138> Why would B generate cargo with no destination?
12:16:17  <Celestar> peter1138: for whatever reason
12:16:34  <Celestar> for example because we didn't hit a station that we could reach
12:17:48  <peter1138> But it can reach C...
12:18:11  <peter1138> But may not if the route is interrupted somehow
12:18:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm not sure why they don't get destinations... there is only one acceptable destination in the network
12:18:56  <peter1138> How many stations are there?
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12:19:14  <ln>
12:19:20  <Eddi|zuHause3> lots of forest stations, some transfer stations, one target station
12:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> and very many unrelated stations
12:19:38  <peter1138> Celestar, maybe each routing thing needs a cache of reachable stations, and then the random destination is picked from that instead of all stations
12:19:54  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: I was after a rough number.
12:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> 10:2:1 or something
12:20:36  <Eddi|zuHause3>,%202.%20Jan%201972.sav <- savegame
12:20:53  <Celestar> peter1138: the hopcache contains which stations are reachable
12:21:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> needs enabling of destinations
12:21:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> problem is visible on basically all cargo transfers
12:22:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> e.g. station "RÃŒsselshorst Waldfrieden" (wood, ore), "DÃŒsseldorf Gbf" (coal)
12:22:34  <Eddi|zuHause3> Dortmund, not DÃŒsseldorf
12:23:26  <Eddi|zuHause3> man... i have no idea how i ever could manage this station without YAPP...
12:24:24  <Vikthor> Am I mad when I compile two versions of openttd at once?
12:25:01  <glx> Vikthor: no
12:25:17  <glx> I usually compile 3 at once (with -j4)
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12:33:28  <Vikthor> 19454:ccae3e40e174 is giving me SIGSEGV, when I build train, and then try to move the last wagon(or loco) to middle of the consist. It does not happens with trunk.
12:35:17  <Progman> Celestar: working as intend? An airport outside and catcharea reach dont show cargo ratings even if there are a lot of pax departing and arriving
12:35:23  <Progman> s/and/any/
12:36:01  <Celestar> ratings are only generated if cargo is originating or ending there
12:36:10  <Celestar> pure transfer points don't have a rating afaik
12:36:22  <Progman> indeed, but maybe they should ;)
12:38:31  <Celestar> possibly
12:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> my wood and ore transfers show a rating
12:38:35  <Celestar> but that's a feature to add later (=
12:38:37  <Progman> the legend in route network minimap should explain that white is "via air", blue is "via truck" and so on
12:38:41  <Eddi|zuHause3> but maybe because it's an old savegame
12:38:54  <Celestar> Progman: the legend in the route network is WIP (by peter ;)
12:40:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> Progman: the colours are cargos, not means of transportation ;)
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12:41:28  <Celestar> that's true as well
12:41:34  <Celestar> there will possibly be both views
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12:42:07  <peter1138> Celestar, C99 does not work in MSVC...
12:42:55  <peter1138> Progman: white is mail, blue is passengers, actually...
12:43:16  <glx> Vikthor: I can reproduce :)
12:43:21  <peter1138> Oh, Eddi said...
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12:44:06  <Progman> hmm, the cargo list of a bus/truck isn't changed, is it? cos it shows first "31 pax from A" and while unloading it changed the target station
12:44:31  <Celestar> peter1138: C99 ??
12:44:37  <Celestar> peter1138: this IS c++ right?
12:44:38  <Progman> it looks weird to show "31 pax from A" -> "28 pax from A" -> "20 pax from D" -> "11 pax from C" -> "4 pax from B"
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12:45:46  <peter1138> Celestar, yes...
12:45:55  <peter1138> but foo[bar] is C99, not C++
12:47:17  <Celestar> even if bar is const int?!
12:47:26  <peter1138> Err
12:47:31  <peter1138> char buffer[strlen(messagebuffer) + strlen(cargobuffer) + 1];
12:47:36  <Celestar> oh (=
12:47:45  <Celestar> use std::string then (=
12:47:58  <peter1138> Damn, I need dxguid.lib :o
12:48:09  <SpComb> meep meep
12:49:41  <glx> peter1138: disable directmusic
12:51:09  <Celestar> peter1138: there's a simple workaround to the "must deliver cargo" problem ...
12:52:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> <Vikthor> 19454:ccae3e40e174 is giving me SIGSEGV, when I build train, and then try to move the last wagon(or loco) to middle of the consist. It does not happens with trunk. <- i just got the same thing, i had two mail wagons without engine, and wanted to separate them
12:53:50  <dih> i have the distinct feeling that the dedicated console will not read chars such as öÀÌ
12:53:52  <glx> MSVC fails to compile \o/
12:54:00  <dih> yet again, glx :-P
12:54:02  <Progman> what about a new cargo station view "Destination and next hop", is it possible?
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12:54:17  <dih> hello rortom
12:55:17  <dih> yet when umlauts are chatted in the game - they reach the console fine
12:55:27  <dih> just console -> game does not work
12:55:38  <rortom> hi
12:55:39  <rortom> oh
12:55:48  <rortom> with the bot?
12:56:02  <peter1138> Celestar: which is what?
12:56:13  <dih> dedicated console to the game (say "hÀllö")
12:56:29  <Celestar> peter1138: have UpdateStationWaiting return whether the cargo has been moved?
12:56:45  <rortom> (just back from paris)
12:56:52  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13988 /trunk/ (9 files in 5 dirs): -Codechange: move the to IP resolving functions to a separate file.
12:56:58  <dih> results in "[All] apPlus: h  ll  "
12:57:07  <glx> char buffer[strlen(messagebuffer) + strlen(cargobuffer) + 1]; <-- char *buffer = AllocaM(char, char buffer[strlen(messagebuffer) + strlen(cargobuffer) + 1);
12:57:09  <dih> 2 chars for one umlaut char :-P
12:57:14  <peter1138> Celestar: as I already said, that makes industry production values pretty meaningless.
12:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm... after loading the autosave game, the "via" statistics are totally screwed
12:58:35  <dih> does openttd support unicode?
12:58:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> dih: yes
12:58:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's supposed to be all unicode
12:58:59  <Celestar> peter1138: nope. because the place where UpdateStationWaiting is called (it's only one function) handles that quite nicely
12:58:59  <dih> i.e. if i do say "\u<code for À>" it will actually get into the game
12:59:31  <peter1138> Celestar, it handles the statistics correctly, yes
13:01:18  <Celestar> peter1138: because this one also "reduces" the actually moved stuff for ratings
13:01:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> dih: i don't think so
13:01:49  <dih> shite
13:02:08  <dih> how can i communicate special chars to the game - it works the other way round...!
13:02:51  <glx> about the segfault: train_cmd:1286 uint32 mask_old = GetCargoForSharedVehicles(GetFirstVehicleFromSharedList(dst_head)); <-- dst_head is NULL
13:03:28  <peter1138> Celestar: i->this_month_production will be wrong
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13:03:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> dih: make a bug report!
13:03:37  <Celestar> peter1138: how?
13:03:55  <peter1138> it will adjust by the original amount, not the amount actually moved
13:04:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> dih: obviously there is a wrong conversion inbetween
13:04:41  <Celestar> peter1138: well, it will adjust my the amount the MoveGoodsToStation said it moved
13:05:06  <Celestar> uint am = MoveGoodsToStation(i->xy, i->width, i->height, i->produced_cargo[j], cw);  i->this_month_transported[j] += am;
13:05:10  <peter1138> Yeah, but further back needs to be adjusted too
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13:05:48  <peter1138> Just above that, where it adds cw
13:06:06  <Eddi|zuHause3> the route network is totally borked after loading a savegame
13:06:58  <peter1138> In what way?
13:07:00  *** Belugas_Gone is now known as Belugas
13:07:04  <Eddi|zuHause3> the routes are not rebuilt
13:07:17  <peter1138> Right, reset the economy options
13:07:27  <peter1138> The settings are not loaded correctly yet.
13:07:57  <Belugas> hello boyz and men
13:08:31  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: you wanna test a patch?
13:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause3> oh, yes, that helped ;)
13:08:55  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3:
13:09:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: shoot
13:09:24  <Celestar> try that for your wood network (stop all trains and wait for the non-destination cargo to expire)
13:11:05  <Celestar> WTH .. our server has 42TB of data on the backup
13:11:28  <Gekz> “
13:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> recursive backups are cool ;)
13:11:46  <Celestar> apparently :P
13:11:56  <Gekz> Celestar: IDEA
13:11:56  <Eddi|zuHause3> very... exponential ;)
13:12:00  <Gekz> New industry
13:12:04  <Gekz> Hard drive backups
13:12:09  <Celestar> er peter1138. i->this_month_production has nothing to do with how and where cargo is delivered
13:12:13  <Gekz> ship them tapes to the warehouse
13:12:14  <Gekz> QUICK SMART
13:12:33  <Celestar> "never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of DVD-Rs"
13:12:37  <Gekz> lol
13:12:52  <Gekz> it would be ossom
13:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> i can double my bandwidth with like 2 DVDs a week
13:13:25  <peter1138> Celestar, no, but it's the statistic of how much cargo was generated.
13:13:36  <peter1138> If we don't generate cargo then it should reflect that.
13:13:40  <Eddi|zuHause3> which reminds me...
13:14:03  <Celestar> peter1138: er no. i->this_month_transported is the stat how many cargopackets were generated
13:14:27  <peter1138> i'm talking about i->this_month_*production*
13:14:27  <Celestar> i->this_month_production is the theoretical limit of i->this_month_transported (if your ratings are 100%)
13:15:08  <peter1138> By not adjusting this_month_production you are penalising the player because we couldn't find a destination
13:15:29  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13989 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2186] (r13953): YAPP track reservation for crashed trains was broken for depots and wormholes (michi_cc).
13:16:05  <Celestar> peter1138: TransportIndustryGoods. mesa no tink so
13:17:05  <peter1138> That's exactly where I'm talking about.
13:17:20  <Celestar> I fail to see your point (=
13:17:52  <peter1138> Clearly :)
13:17:58  * Celestar wonders why the settings are not updated
13:18:17  <peter1138> Because I didn't fix it yet after you asked me to.
13:18:23  <Celestar> peter1138: <= that way, it will always find a destination
13:18:29  <peter1138> The settings are loaded after it's initialised...
13:20:16  <Celestar> where are they loaded? :o
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13:22:14  <Celestar> well we could do it in AfterLoadGame, but it doesn't feel right
13:22:55  <japa> can anybody here help me with something?
13:23:20  <japa> vis-a-vis running in linux?
13:24:08  <Celestar> ?
13:25:55  <japa> ever since I installed 0.60 through adept, my nightlys won't run
13:27:12  <ln> you're giving too detailed information
13:27:17  <dih> i cannot fine where IsInsideMM is defined....
13:28:24  <dih> video/dedicated_v.cpp:244 is causing the issue
13:28:30  <dih> if (!IsInsideMM(input_line[i], ' ', 256))
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13:28:42  <Belugas> japa, could you detail a bit more?
13:28:46  <Belugas> what's the error?
13:29:07  <Belugas> why mixing 0.6 and nightlies?
13:29:09  <dih> i am guessing that the 256 is too low to allow special chars
13:29:28  <dih> such as ÀöÌ
13:29:35  <Belugas> japa i bet you have only one config file and is been shared by both programs
13:29:39  <japa>  /home/japa/OTTD-linux-i686-nightly-r13800/openttd: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
13:29:51  <japa> does that help?
13:30:18  <dih> SmatZ: ^ what was your fix for that?
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13:30:25  <dih> japa: you need to symlink something
13:30:40  <Belugas> japa: ohhh... linux... well... I cannot help you at all, sorry.  But i'm sure others are more aware of that OS
13:30:44  <japa> that's what I've been told
13:31:12  <dih> japa: you can simply ln -s
13:31:21  <dih> i just cannot remember the path of it :-P
13:31:28  <dih> /usr/lib/ perhaps?
13:32:06  <dih> just symlink one of them to .0 and you will be fine
13:32:48  <japa> so 0.5.1 should be symlinked?
13:33:11  <dih> does not matter which one
13:33:21  <SmatZ> dih: Ammler already replied :)
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13:33:27  <SmatZ> and so did you :)
13:33:33  <dih> you will most likely find that one is a symlink to the other anyway
13:33:43  <kais58> that was a good guess
13:33:53  <Ammler> that was doublie support :-)
13:34:05  <dih> hehe
13:34:30  <dih> still - i dont know where IsInsideMM is defined... i cannot find it ... :-(
13:34:44  <Celestar> peter1138: we have to give the destination generation more thought methinks
13:34:51  <Celestar> peter1138: we can't loop and loop and loop and loop
13:35:27  <japa> grr... symlinking isn't working
13:36:01  <dih> sudo!
13:36:07  <Wolf01> I don't know if I'm stupid or what, but I can't understand on how to make ECS mines to have unlimited resources... it says 7 - No closure and endless mines and unlimited storage place, I put 7 and they last for 15 years then close... any cheat which overrides grf parameters like no new industries, place industries everywhere and no industry closures?
13:36:09  <japa> root console
13:36:19  <dih> yuck!
13:36:26  <dih> then symlink the full path
13:36:39  <Celestar> japa: onto
13:36:45  <Celestar> at least that's what  have
13:36:52  <dih> ln -s /usr/lib/ /usr/lib/
13:38:05  <Ammler> Wolf01: do you have newest ECS industries?
13:38:10  <Wolf01> yes
13:38:28  <Ammler> but it might be the switch does only disable ECS behaviour to close
13:38:45  <Ammler> openttd builtin closeing can still be there...
13:39:04  <Progman> Wolf01: which grf exactly?
13:39:17  <Wolf01> ECS, all
13:39:35  <Ammler> not every grf has the parameter at 1.
13:39:50  <Wolf01> I'm looking at the wiki to set the parameters
13:39:52  <Progman> and there are several versions of ECS
13:40:13  <Wolf01> Progman, I have the newest version
13:40:44  <Progman> maybe you dont
13:40:51  <Wolf01> maybe yes?
13:40:53  <peter1138> Celestar, no, we can't. Can we use that hopcache?
13:41:04  <Progman> which town vector do you have?
13:41:24  <Wolf01> beta4 of april
13:41:34  <Progman> its not the newest
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13:41:57  <Wolf01> I downloaded from the site
13:42:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: appears to work a lot better now ;)
13:42:53  <peter1138> Celestar, pull from
13:42:59  <Progman> btw.: which vector doesn't work with the parameter about closing?
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13:43:33  <Wolf01> coal and iron ore mines continue to have limited resources
13:43:49  <Ammler> Progman: do we have the newest vectors in our pack?
13:43:58  <japa> ok, I know know symlinks to symlinks don't work
13:44:06  <Wolf01> and this time I didn't tried the oil rigs/wells
13:44:11  <Ammler> japa: should
13:44:19  <Progman> Ammler: dont know, you manage the newgrfs ;)
13:44:24  <Ammler> only symlink to itself doesn't
13:44:27  <japa> this one didn't
13:44:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: limits won't change in existing games
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13:44:45  <Eddi|zuHause3> must start a new game
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13:44:54  <Wolf01> I started a new game because of that
13:45:05  <peter1138> ECS?
13:45:08  <Ammler> Progman: that's why I asking... :P
13:45:09  <peter1138> Solution is to use PBI...
13:45:51  <dih>
13:45:51  <Wolf01> I'm playing 15 years games because the mine I'm starting from will close after 15 years, and I don't want to begin again all my network from another mine
13:45:54  <Ammler> peter1138: PBI isn't easier...
13:46:06  <peter1138> No, but it's less shit.
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13:46:19  <Ammler> the graphics of ECS aren't that nice.
13:46:21  <Progman> Ammler: I just got town vector beta5 from george beside the normal newgrf package
13:46:53  <Wolf01> I agree with peter1138, each time I try ECS i'll finish to close the game without saving and I need to kill something on other games
13:47:25  <Belugas> at least, you do not need to kill anyone...
13:47:31  <Progman> you must indeed need more care about the parameter of ecs ;)
13:47:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> if your network depends on exactly one mine, you might have to reconsider your playing style ;)
13:47:54  <Ammler> I played my cargo dest game with ECS, no problems...
13:48:29  <Wolf01> I'm only trying to play a nice sandbox game, but seem impossible with this micro management
13:48:44  <Ammler> I just had to dig the "whole" self, after the sand pit disapeared and got empty...
13:49:20  <Progman> got empty? if you use a parameter of value 7 you got 16mio tons waiting ;)
13:49:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> is there any way i could revive my yapp v3 game with trunk?
13:49:34  <Ammler> it is fun to look for alternatives, if you see there is only about 1k left of a mine...
13:50:19  <Ammler> and if you are too lazy to do that, you could just fund a new one at same place...
13:51:11  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: I might consider your comment about the pax generation
13:51:45  <Celestar>
13:52:25  <Progman> *g*
13:52:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> ;)
13:52:57  <Celestar> of these 10000, 9500 try to use the trams :P
13:53:15  <Gekz> Ruffles
13:53:30  <Gekz> Celestar: THATS A FUCKING MESS
13:53:34  <Gekz> Mind the French.
13:53:50  <peter1138> TTRS has always produced tons of passengers
13:54:05  <Gekz> time to fix that?
13:54:12  <peter1138> Belugas, sorry for smashing up your smallmap industry stuff :o
13:54:37  <Celestar> Gekz: there's no need to fix it
13:54:43  <Celestar> Gekz: there's need for a better network
13:54:47  <Gekz> !
13:54:48  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r13990 /trunk/src/network/core/host.cpp: -Fix (r13988): win32 compilation failed
13:54:48  <Celestar> all the train network works nicely
13:55:23  <Gekz> Celestar: do all the yellow results have to be shown
13:55:32  <Gekz> or can you jsut show the black "to <town>" parts
13:55:45  <peter1138> It's switchable
13:55:55  <Gekz> thank jesus and some of his friends
13:55:59  <peter1138> That's the full list because there's bound to be someone who wants it.
13:56:09  <peter1138> It can also show just destinations or just next-hop
13:56:15  <Eddi|zuHause3> the old patch had the option to reduce cargo by factor 2^n
13:56:29  <Celestar> peter1138: next hop is best (=
13:56:38  <Celestar> at least with a station like this one where there are 6 next-hops
13:56:41  <peter1138> Celestar, I'd still prefer next transfer, but think it's not possible yet.
13:56:46  <Gekz> Celestar: yeah
13:56:50  <Gekz> that would be nice
13:57:01  <Gekz> I could make the Australian rail network!
13:57:07  <Gekz> that would be awesome
13:57:11  <Celestar> peter1138: that'd be cool. but that's not a must-have for the time being possibly
13:57:17  <Gekz> then we'd have to implement a riot newgrf
13:57:19  <Wolf01> so, if ECS vectors on George's site aren't the newest version, and the ECS topic doesn't have the newest version, where can I get the newest version?
13:57:22  <Gekz> and 4 hour late trains by force
13:57:32  <Eddi|zuHause3> my last game i played with factor 2^4 there
13:57:42  <Progman> Wolf01: at least by asking george ;)
13:57:43  <Celestar> did it work? (=
13:58:19  <Progman> Wolf01: as some documentations on based on beta5, not beta4
13:58:44  <glx> peter1138:
13:58:46  <Ammler> Progman: there is a beta5?
13:58:57  <Progman> Ammler: I got the town vector of beta5
13:59:06  <Ammler> from?
13:59:10  <Progman> george
13:59:20  <Ammler> inofficial?
13:59:26  <Gekz> un,
13:59:31  <Ammler> as it is not on the download page
13:59:52  <Progman> not sure, thats I won't contribute it by myself
14:00:23  <Wolf01> Progman, I'm reading the documentation to set the parameters, but nothing changed for iron ore and coal mines
14:00:44  <Wolf01> I'm trying with all the possible combinations
14:01:20  <Progman> Wolf01: I run the basic vector beta4 with parameters "1 7" and it works fine
14:01:53  <Progman> and machinery beta4 with parameter "7"
14:02:45  <peter1138> glx: poke it at celestar ;)
14:02:54  <Progman> so I don't have stocks and every primary industries got 16.7 mio tons cargos left
14:03:01  <Belugas> peter1138, it does not matter :) it's for the best
14:03:17  <glx> Celestar: ;)
14:03:23  <Belugas> i cannot nold it against you to improve the game, peter1138 :)
14:03:43  <Celestar> glx: what about std::string ;)
14:03:47  <Celestar> glx: but ok checking
14:05:00  <peter1138> Celestar:
14:05:02  <peter1138> ;)
14:05:31  <glx> why do you change your IP that often?
14:05:43  <Celestar> peter1138: awesome
14:05:45  <peter1138> home vs work
14:06:05  <Celestar> peter1138: how do I pull your two changes now?
14:06:24  <peter1138> Just pull it...
14:06:43  <Wolf01> Now I'll set all the parameters on all the vectors, if I'll find another industry closure when serviced I'll remove all newindustries and I'll play with original ones
14:07:07  <Ammler> hg pull <url>
14:07:58  <Ammler> :-)
14:08:38  <Ammler> stockpiles, limits etc. are the reasons to take ECS
14:08:48  <Ammler> the graphics aren't
14:08:51  <Progman> Wolf01: you know if the parameters are loaded correctly if the primary industries got cargos like 16.7mio
14:09:01  <Celestar> peter1138: ok
14:09:17  <Progman> meh, I dont use ECS for the stockpiles or limits ;)
14:10:14  <Wolf01> I put: town 0 0 1 15, basic 0 15, all the others: 7
14:10:22  <Celestar> peter1138: testing it
14:10:33  <Ammler> the coal mine looks like power platn and the power plant looks like a nuclear plant
14:10:35  <Progman> 15?
14:10:35  <Celestar> glx: committed your change
14:10:46  <Wolf01> 1+2+4+8
14:10:47  <glx> I saw :)
14:10:58  <Celestar> (=
14:11:16  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: that patch I gave you, does that fix the wood probem?
14:11:22  <Progman> aah, serviced industries
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14:14:26  <Ammler> Progman: does ECS allow someone to build industries together?
14:14:32  <Ammler> adjacent
14:14:41  <Celestar> meh compiling everything sucks at times
14:15:25  <Wolf01> "coal left 93,910 tonnes"
14:15:29  <Wolf01> ...
14:15:47  <Celestar> peter1138: got a sec?
14:15:50  <Wolf01> and it's decreasing
14:15:55  <ln> a secant?
14:16:03  <Celestar> yeah
14:16:05  <Celestar> 1/sin
14:16:16  <ln> that one exactly.
14:16:39  <ln> or is it even 1/cos
14:16:50  * Celestar shrugs
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14:17:06  <Wolf01> for all the industries it says "remain 0 months (0-undef)"
14:17:07  <Progman> Wolf01: then the parameter isn't loaded
14:17:13  <peter1138> Hmm?
14:17:18  <Wolf01> Eh, I want to know why
14:17:32  <ln> cosecant would be 1/sin if wikipedia is to be trusted.
14:17:48  <nikke10292> sec is 1/cos
14:17:49  <Celestar> peter1138: toggleable map is awesome, but I have two buts (=
14:17:53  <nikke10292> cosec is 1/sin
14:17:56  <Progman> Ammler: I only know there are a lot of restrictions where to build an ECS industrie
14:17:58  <Celestar> yeah, nikke10292 sorry :(
14:18:08  <peter1138> BUT!
14:18:16  <peter1138> we want to show route *type*
14:18:32  <Celestar> peter1138: but 1) "Disable all" enables everything for me
14:18:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: yes, it does (as far as i can see)
14:18:57  <peter1138> Haha
14:19:04  <Celestar> peter1138: but 2) we might want to chose other colors at some time. the default ones are difficult to see (or is it my laptop display, with a sun in the background)
14:19:20  *** planetmaker is now known as pm
14:19:24  <peter1138> The default colours are the cargo's legend colour...
14:19:33  *** pm is now known as planetmaker
14:19:34  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah. keep em, I'll just boost the brightness (=
14:19:42  <Eddi|zuHause3> when i load the pre-cargodest game, the "legacy" cargo gets lost for a while, and then the new cargo gets destinations
14:20:02  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: is that good or bad? :P
14:20:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> it is better than before ;)
14:20:19  <Celestar> with my patch?
14:20:30  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3: the 'legacy' cargo is shown the same way as non-enroute cargo is shown without destinations: not.
14:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> maybe, if such a "legacy" cargo without destination appears at a transfer station, you should let a destination finder run
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14:21:58  <Eddi|zuHause3> but that is probably only a transition problem
14:22:10  <Celestar> it is
14:22:29  <Celestar> because no more cargo without destinations in generated
14:23:07  <Wolf01> Oh I found another problem with YAPP: don't even try to place this between two approaching trains
14:23:09  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3, originally no destination made it crash, so this is an improvement ;)
14:23:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> :p
14:23:38  <peter1138> Wolf01: that counts as user error...
14:25:25  <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: how safe is it to enable newgrf pool for an old savegame?
14:26:49  <Wolf01> eheh, the old behavior is too safe, it allowed to work while trains were running on the track without any problem, just put a signal between two trains... now it's unsafe to try to change something while trains are running, but if you do it while no trains are in the segment you'll succeed always, this implementation of PBS is way more stable than the first one
14:27:37  <Roujin> Celestar: sorry, had to leave for a while, am now back. I kinda don't know where to put the Boost stuff.. in a subdir of the checkout?
14:28:32  <Roujin> or "clone" rather
14:28:50  <glx> Celestar: segfault fixed in my repo
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14:30:07  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause3, bwahaha
14:30:39  <peter1138> hg is mad...
14:30:53  <peter1138> every has their very own repo
14:31:31  <peter1138> I fixed the copy & paste error ;)
14:31:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> Wolf01: placing a signal has never caused any crashes here
14:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> only removing signals is dangerous
14:31:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> placing some may only cause deadlocks
14:32:11  <Eddi|zuHause3> especially placing one way signals
14:32:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> because the train will not unreserve its path
14:32:33  <Eddi|zuHause3> and then gets stuck behind the one way sign
14:33:20  <Celestar> MEH
14:33:28  <hylje> HURR
14:33:49  <Eddi|zuHause3> peter1138: i'm afraid that is not the answer that i wanted :p
14:33:51  <Celestar> I'm losing track of who changes what :P
14:34:46  <Roujin> now trying to have the Boost stuff in msys\local\include\, hope that works now..
14:34:52  <Roujin> nope.. argh ><
14:35:02  <Celestar> Roujin: just put it SOMEWHERe and give the correct -I flag
14:35:06  <Celestar> in CFLAGS
14:35:36  <Celestar> peter1138: hg is very mad, but it work just great, doesn't it?
14:36:28  <Celestar> I man. paraview already compiles for 5 hours now :o
14:37:35  <glx> logs are just full of merges ;)
14:38:40  <Celestar> who cares :P
14:39:27  <Eddi|zuHause3> "Some sort of merge..." ;)
14:40:22  <peter1138> :D
14:40:27  <peter1138> That was when it went wrong
14:40:41  <peter1138> Merging a massive load of changes, and from the reimported hg repo
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14:40:49  <hylje> learning the ropes
14:41:03  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r13991 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: draw text effects after all other signs
14:41:31  * planetmaker wonders what "text effects" are...
14:42:24  <Eddi|zuHause3> moving "Income:" stuff?
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14:42:28  <SmatZ> planetmaker: loading indicators, ..
14:42:32  <SmatZ> yes
14:42:36  <planetmaker> ah... :) Thx
14:42:47  <Celestar> peter1138: the size of the "blob", what is that the sum of cargo?
14:44:49  <Celestar> <= this is getting out of hand
14:45:34  <Celestar> I think we could use this as a screenshot (=
14:46:59  <Celestar> Roujin: any luck?
14:48:08  <Roujin> still trying to figure CFLAGS out oO
14:48:49  <Celestar> ./configure CFLAGS="-Wno-deprecated -I/path/to" .. if boost is installed in /path/to/boost
14:49:50  <Roujin> i see, thanks
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14:54:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> this "hg view" thing is getting crazy...
14:55:53  <Eddi|zuHause3> "merge from trunk" - "merge from peter" - "merge from celestar" - "merge from peter" - "merge from glx"
14:56:23  <glx> yes full of merges
14:56:25  <hylje> that's distributed development for you
14:56:39  <Eddi|zuHause3> and 4 parallel chains of development ;)
14:57:22  <Celestar> (=
14:57:36  <hylje> /that's/ distributed development
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14:59:13  <Roujin> seems to work now, yay :)
14:59:23  <Celestar> Roujin: want me to start a server? (=
14:59:40  <Roujin> you use the latest revision i guess?
14:59:54  <Celestar> yeah
14:59:58  <Celestar> "hg pull" "hg update"
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15:00:22  <Roujin> i'm a lazy one.. i use the turtoise :P
15:00:43  <Roujin> no command line typing needed ;D
15:01:37  <Celestar> server running (=
15:01:40  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: wanna join too (=
15:01:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> no, have no time...
15:02:20  <Celestar> pity
15:02:30  <Roujin> pulling..
15:02:31  <Celestar> I'm *still* waiting for this thing to compile
15:02:45  <Roujin> compiling..
15:05:36  <Roujin> got some warnings here..
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15:05:48  <Celestar> Roujin: can you paste them somewhere?
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15:06:12  <Roujin> they seem to be in the Boost files tho
15:06:15  <Roujin> +ugh
15:06:57  <Celestar> deprecated warnings?
15:07:24  <Roujin> nope, something being not defined.. i'll paste it in the pastebin, one sec
15:07:33  <Celestar> k
15:07:36  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13992 /trunk/src/video/dedicated_v.cpp: -Fix [FS#2189]: the dedicated console removed any character that was not a printable ASCII character instead. Now it allows UTF8 formated strings too.
15:07:42  <Roujin>
15:08:06  <Celestar> Roujin: dunno :(
15:10:04  <Roujin> ah well.. boost website says it's not supporting MinGW, and it "might work or might not work" anyways
15:10:41  <Celestar> it apparently works mostly
15:10:46  <Celestar> does it compile?
15:11:17  <Ammler> Rubidium: thÀt is nÀice :-)
15:11:43  <glx> it works here
15:11:46  <Roujin> appearently it does.. it only repeats those 3 warnings on compiling every file that uses something from boost :P
15:12:11  <glx> but I configured, compiled and installed it
15:12:44  <Roujin> glx: boost?
15:12:48  <glx> yes
15:12:49  <Celestar> glx: any warnings?
15:13:26  <Celestar> Rubidium: peter1138: why do we have that many level 0 debug messages in [net] ?
15:13:32  <Roujin> probably should have done that too, and not just grab a precompiled build
15:13:48  <Celestar> precompiled?
15:13:48  <glx> Celestar: it's debug level 1
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15:13:53  <Celestar> boost is header only
15:14:28  <Roujin> er.. maybe that was the wrong word..
15:15:22  <Roujin> well i downloaded the "packaged release"
15:15:35  <Celestar> I see
15:15:44  <Celestar> well, fire it up and see what happens (=
15:15:59  <glx> no warnings here
15:16:10  <Roujin> what are you using glx?
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15:16:18  <glx> mingw+msys
15:16:24  <Celestar> suggestion for what cargodest commands we might need in conolse?
15:16:26  <Celestar> console*
15:17:53  <Northwood> any way to have graphic support in aside from vmware in debian when server
15:17:55  <Roujin> and boost 1_35_0, or 1_36_0 beta?
15:18:02  <Celestar> Roujin: doesn't matter
15:18:13  <Celestar> rpm -q boost
15:18:13  <Celestar> boost-1.34.1-42.2
15:18:16  <Celestar> that's what I'm using
15:18:20  <Rubidium> Northwood: really the wrong channel to ask that
15:18:35  <Roujin> just wondering why i get some warnings and glx doesn't..
15:18:47  <Northwood> i also asked in xen but there ppl still sleeping
15:18:51  <glx> 1_35
15:19:00  <Roujin> hm, me too oO
15:19:03  <Northwood> i thought something is build in kernel with domu
15:19:04  <Celestar> Northwood: ERROR: cannot parse question
15:19:33  <Roujin> ah well, compiling yapf*something now, so i can test it soon
15:20:19  *** nekx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:20:27  <Roujin> well seems to run
15:20:39  <Celestar> awesome
15:20:41  <Roujin> version's a bit weird, or is that normal for hg?
15:21:00  <Roujin> OpenTTD h:7297ec9
15:21:00  <Celestar> h:7292rc9
15:21:05  <Celestar> that's the correct one
15:21:28  <Roujin> goodie
15:22:09  <Roujin> is the server running?
15:22:13  <Celestar> aye
15:22:17  <Celestar>
15:22:24  <glx> and with the merges I can't get the same version
15:22:39  <Celestar> glx: what merges?
15:22:54  <Celestar> glx: you can.. just check out my repo (=
15:23:09  <glx> indeed :)
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15:23:22  <Celestar> 3 people in game would rock to find possibly desyncs
15:23:23  *** GoneWacko [] has quit []
15:23:24  <Celestar> (=
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15:23:41  <Belugas> and roll
15:23:52  <Celestar> that too Belugas
15:23:53  <Vikthor> Celestar: Ready to rock
15:24:28  *** GoneWack1 is now known as GoneWacko
15:24:29  <Celestar> well, you may connect at any time (=
15:24:31  <Vikthor> Well amost, need to recompile
15:24:36  <Celestar> but you need to grfpack
15:24:51  <glx> which one?
15:24:53  <hylje> coop?
15:24:56  <Vikthor> If it is same you were posting earlier today I have it
15:25:07  <Celestar>
15:25:11  <Celestar> this one
15:25:36  <Celestar> can make a zip if need be
15:25:39  <peter1138> Celestar, er, blob size is passengers I think... that needs fixing
15:25:59  <Celestar> er .. standby I gave you the wrong server address (=
15:26:04  * Belugas puts on some good old Iron Maiden, since he can't have time to join the other Roll And Rock
15:26:11  <Ammler> from where to pull latest? :-)
15:26:30  <hylje> most likely
15:26:40  <Ammler> nah, cargo dest
15:26:46  <Roujin> ah okay
15:27:11  <Celestar> Ammler:
15:27:21  <Celestar> server IP is
15:28:02  <hylje> command goes somewhat like `hg clone <url> celestar-openttd`
15:28:21  <Celestar> yes
15:28:23  <Celestar> exactly
15:28:52  <glx> clone done (it's slow on windows)
15:28:59  <hylje> it's slow on linux too!
15:29:03  <Roujin> Celestar: it worked :)
15:29:05  <Celestar> cool
15:29:08  <Celestar> Roujin: start playing (=
15:30:05  <Roujin> is it you on the server? :P
15:30:13  <Celestar> er yeah :P
15:30:19  <Roujin> forgot renaming ^^
15:30:41  <hylje> what do i need to apt-get for the boost dep?
15:31:09  <Celestar> apt-get boost or apt-get boost-devel or apt-get boost-libs
15:31:13  <Celestar> try boost first
15:31:17  <blathijs> woah, there are like 100 libboost packages :-S
15:31:23  <Celestar> er?
15:31:30  <Celestar> what platform are you on?
15:31:36  <blathijs> hylje: libboost-dev is probably you're best bet
15:31:39  <blathijs> Celestar: Debian :-)
15:31:52  <Celestar> blathijs: we only need the graph library
15:32:07  <blathijs> hylje: libboost-graph-dev in that case
15:32:14  <hylje> nvm i already got it
15:32:20  <hylje> installed
15:32:28  <Reemo> somebody knows why some of my trains has "Cost 0$" income? can't find anything about it
15:32:33  <Celestar> blathijs: on opensuse I have 3 packages: boost, boost-devel, boost-doc
15:32:58  <blathijs> Celestar: Debian has 61 packages :-)
15:33:08  <peter1138> Debian splits it up so you only need what you need...
15:33:14  <blathijs> But those include .34, .35 versions and -dev packages
15:33:28  <Celestar> peter1138: because boost is so enormously large in disk usage? (=
15:33:40  <hylje> because debian policy
15:33:43  <blathijs> around 12 different libraries in effect
15:33:51  <hylje> they split up wine too, breaking it in process
15:35:59  <blathijs> Celestar: It does seem all the sub-packages are multiple megs in size, so splitting does make sense IMHO
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15:41:41  <Roujin> oo
15:41:43  <glx> oups
15:41:44  <Roujin> desync
15:41:47  <Vikthor> Whoops, there we go
15:41:53  <Celestar> boook
15:41:56  <Celestar> boom*
15:41:57  <Roujin> i just cycled through some pbs signals
15:42:03  <Roujin> the second it happened
15:42:05  <Celestar> I built a station
15:42:09  <Vikthor> I was just building road
15:42:09  <glx> I was still there
15:42:15  <glx> I started a train
15:42:25  <Roujin> damn
15:42:26  <Celestar> I _am_ still there ...
15:42:43  <Roujin> i'll join in again
15:42:48  <Rubidium> I get insta-desynced
15:42:53  <Celestar> I can see it
15:42:57  <Ammler> Celestar: did you need to install boost?
15:42:57  <Celestar> different settings?
15:43:05  <Celestar> Ammler: no you just need the headers
15:43:18  <Celestar> interesting. everyone gets insta-desynced
15:43:19  <Roujin> i also get desynched the second i join
15:43:24  <Rubidium> different boost implementation
15:43:27  <Rubidium> I reckon
15:43:33  <Celestar> try now. I have paused the server
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15:44:01  <Roujin> well i'm in now
15:44:06  <Ammler> Celestar: is it advertised?
15:44:15  <Celestar> Ammler: dunno
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15:46:37  <Roujin> desynched again shortly after unpause
15:46:41  <Celestar> this is not good
15:46:43  <Celestar> Rubidium: options?
15:47:30  <Rubidium> as default as they can be related to cargo packets
15:47:37  <glx> I don't see cargo route for rubidium in the map
15:47:42  <Roujin> I didn't change anything either
15:47:46  <Rubidium> and debian's libboost-graph-dev 1.34.1-11
15:48:14  <Rubidium> and my station is funky; if you press the + the amount of cargo double, press the - and it halves
15:48:51  <Rubidium> and Debian's gcc 4.3.1-8
15:49:12  <glx> hmm it did that for me in a previous version
15:49:16  <Celestar> hey guys, can you all check your destination settings in the patches window?
15:49:22  <Celestar> it should be "on" for all
15:49:30  <glx> all to "chosen"
15:49:53  <Rubidium> then save that in the savegame! :)
15:50:16  <Celestar> it is saved
15:50:23  <Celestar> it's just no honored on game load
15:50:34  <Rubidium> lol
15:50:39  <glx> nice one
15:50:42  <Rubidium> okay, it's set to chosen now
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15:50:45  <Celestar> can you guys do an "rn le 0 1" and tell me if you see the route?
15:51:08  <Rubidium> no outgoing routes blablabla
15:51:11  <Celestar> and can you all then set it to "chosen" again for all types and try again
15:51:12  <Ammler> maybe your GRFs?
15:51:14  <Celestar> Rubidium: I thought so
15:51:17  <Celestar> Rubidium: I have the route here
15:51:19  <glx> no outgoing routes
15:51:28  <Celestar> that's why we're desyncing no doubt
15:51:31  <Roujin> same for me
15:51:48  <Vikthor> same here
15:51:54  <Celestar> not good at all
15:51:57  <Celestar> writing a fix
15:52:04  <Celestar> I'll be back in a few
15:52:05  <Ammler> no routing etablished...
15:52:37  <Roujin> wait a second
15:52:47  <Roujin> rn le 0 1 is passengers
15:53:00  <glx> rn le 1 0 is my coal route
15:53:07  <hylje> Celestar: revision? (mine: 7297ec9)
15:53:18  <Ammler> Celestar: newcargo is early beta grf...
15:53:19  <glx> hylje: it's right
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15:53:36  <hylje> glx: great thanks
15:54:15  <Celestar> hylje: good one
15:54:54  <Celestar> Rubidium: have you manually set the stuff?
15:55:24  <hylje> that didn't last long
15:55:32  <glx> hylje: set cargo dest settings before join
15:55:40  <Ammler> hylje: if you don't ./configure the revision, you can't join with wrong rev anymore...
15:55:43  <Celestar> hylje: set cargo dest settings to "chosen" for all types before you join
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15:55:50  <Rubidium> Celestar: manually in what sense?
15:56:08  <Roujin> in the main menu
15:56:11  <Celestar> Rubidium: in the main menu
15:56:21  <hylje> patch conf
15:57:20  <Rubidium> I did: clone, install boost, compile, run, build station, build station, build rail, build depot, build train, build wagons, build train, remove wagon, set orders, desynced, (desync rejoin)+, set 4 patch settings to chosen in main menu, rejoined, desynced
15:57:42  <glx> Ammler: set cargo dest settings to "chosen" for all types before you join
15:57:56  <Rubidium> oh, forgot about getting annoyed of deprecated warnings in boost
16:03:07  *** nkx [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03:51  <Progman> Celestar: what do you thing about ?
16:04:09  <Celestar> Progman: looking
16:04:40  <Celestar> Progman: ask peter1138 he messed around with that(=
16:04:49  <Progman> okay
16:05:00  <Progman> peter1138: what do /you/ thing about ? ;)
16:14:01  *** Doorslammer [] has quit []
16:14:23  <peter1138> Hah, millions of GRFs :o
16:14:36  <peter1138> Progman, could be done cleaner...
16:15:16  <Progman> but I'm neither a openttd-code-guru nor a c++-guru :(
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16:16:20  <guru3> *curiousity*
16:16:22  <guru3> what is it Progman?
16:16:30  <Progman> not you ;)
16:17:02  <guru3> doesn't mean you can't say what it is ><
16:18:55  <Roujin> ok, seems my build has trouble also in single player, so it's no wonder it desynched
16:19:39  <Celestar> Roujin: it has?
16:19:53  <Celestar> peter1138: millions of grfs?
16:20:03  <peter1138> Yeah, on the server... heh
16:20:53  <Celestar> yeah .. full-scale test
16:21:03  <Celestar> after desync galore, it seems reasonably stable now (=
16:21:14  <Roujin> yes, vehicles not loading any cargo..
16:21:22  <Celestar> Roujin: where?
16:22:16  <Celestar> peter1138: I posted a tbz2 up there with all the grfs
16:22:49  <peter1138> tbz2... :o
16:22:55  <Progman> peter1138: thats how it looks
16:23:36  <peter1138> Yeah, I meant code-wise. I shall tidy it up, don't worry.
16:25:39  <Roujin> Celestar: hmm i was using standard vehicles, does that matter?
16:25:59  <Roujin> now I started a new game with the newgrfs used on your server and it works now
16:29:26  <Celestar> Roujin: nice
16:29:55  <Celestar> peter1138: we MUST honor the settings .. that's (apparently) why we desynced in the first place
16:30:32  <peter1138> yes, i'm working on that right now
16:30:38  <Celestar> you're awesome
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16:39:09  <peter1138> Nearly there.
16:39:56  *** Forked [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
16:44:35  <Belugas> path finding on Mars :
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16:47:13  <peter1138> Celestar: pull
16:47:53  <Celestar> peter1138: which URL this time?
16:48:05  * Prof_Frink grabs his shotgun
16:48:08  <Prof_Frink> Pull!
16:49:04  <peter1138>
16:49:46  <Celestar> thanks
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16:59:42  <Celestar> now I'm desyncing like BAD
16:59:45  <Celestar> MAD
17:01:15  *** mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:01:20  <Celestar> Rubidium: we have to isolate the problem somehow
17:04:41  <peter1138> It was supposed to be MP safe :o
17:06:19  <Celestar> peter1138: if the settings are not honoured, it's a bit difficult (=
17:06:59  <Ammler> Celestar: It might be because of autoreplace...
17:07:13  <Celestar> did anyone set up autoreplace?
17:07:24  <Ammler> I did, just switched off...
17:07:35  <Celestar> Ammler: k
17:07:36  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:07:41  <Celestar> but I'd like to have the settings loaded anyway
17:08:03  <peter1138> So make a new binary ;)
17:08:15  <Celestar> server running with a new binary
17:08:20  <hylje> building
17:08:47  <Celestar> Rubidium: not yet sure what goes wrong with those trains of yours
17:08:47  <Ammler> pull from?
17:08:52  <Ammler> still from you Celestar?
17:09:18  <hylje> how does one tag pulling locations to a human-friendly name
17:10:24  <Celestar> Ammler: yes
17:10:35  <peter1138> Your GRF pack is missing a GRF...
17:11:42  *** Brianetta [] has joined #openttd
17:12:33  <Celestar> it is?
17:12:36  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r13993 /trunk/src/table/palettes.h: -Codechange: Associate TextColour values with comments of related values in _string_colormap table
17:12:37  <peter1138> bridges
17:12:41  <peter1138> got it anyway, heh
17:12:52  <Celestar> Rubidium: the unload system is not even triggerd :o
17:12:55  <Celestar> triggered*
17:15:38  <peter1138> Yeah, the patch settings are honoured now.
17:17:22  <Celestar> yep
17:18:35  <Celestar> Roujin: we have a new version
17:18:37  <Celestar> update (=
17:18:45  <Roujin> i have..
17:18:56  <Roujin> h:a9505f4 right?
17:19:01  <Celestar> yes
17:19:25  <Roujin> maybe somethings really wrong with my Boost
17:19:55  <Celestar> possibly
17:20:04  <Celestar> got no other explanation
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17:24:20  <Ammler> Celestar: Roujin, try again...
17:24:30  <Ammler> I had the trucks repalce on...
17:25:09  <Roujin> nope
17:25:11  <Roujin> desyncs
17:25:35  <Rubidium> Roujin: don't use MSVC builds if you want to stay in
17:25:50  <Roujin> i built with mingw/gcc
17:25:50  <Celestar> what's wrong with the MSVC build?
17:25:55  <Ammler> hmm, maybe it needs a server restart?
17:26:28  <Rubidium> Celestar: open FS and search for autoreplace bugs, then looks at the one about corrupt savegames
17:26:39  <Celestar> Rubidium: do I want to read it? (=
17:26:53  <Rubidium> no
17:27:18  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r13994 /trunk/src/ (gfx.cpp gfx_func.h graph_gui.cpp): -Codechange: replace a few rogue magic numbers with Colours enum values
17:27:52  <Belugas> "And the band plays on"
17:28:01  <Ammler> is that boost glitch known?
17:28:28  <Celestar> Ammler: I don't have that
17:28:59  <hylje> nor do i
17:29:13  <Celestar> hence we should use one stable, constant boost release
17:30:46  <Ammler> or c&p the libs, you need?
17:30:55  <Celestar> svn:externals (=
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17:31:21  <Roujin> Ammler: I don't have those, but i had other warnings..
17:32:02  <peter1138> haha
17:32:05  <Ammler> Celestar: which suse version do you use?
17:32:08  <Celestar> Ammler: 11
17:32:12  <Purno> what was the shortest TT rail vehicles can be? 5/8 or 3/8?
17:32:15  <Celestar> [All] Celestar: autoreplace coming up in 4 sec
17:32:15  <Celestar> dbg: [net] 'peter1138' reported an error and is closing its connection (desync error)
17:32:19  <Ammler> 10.3. ehre
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17:32:33  <Celestar> Ammler: I've 10.3 on most other boxes. only my lappie is 11 already
17:33:04  <Ammler> I have different versions per pc, 10.2-11
17:33:13  <Celestar> 11 is soo cool with KDE4.1
17:33:28  <Ammler> my 11 still is using 3
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17:34:02  <frosch123> Purno: shorten by 5/8 to 3/8
17:34:10  <Purno> thanks
17:35:24  <hylje> ammler ping
17:35:33  <Ammler> pong
17:40:46  <Celestar> Ammler: I get the same boost error on 10.3
17:40:48  <Celestar> er
17:40:49  <Celestar> warning
17:41:08  <Ammler> I didn't install boost, it was there by default
17:41:35  <Celestar> yeah here too
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17:44:23  <Celestar> server moved to
17:44:29  <Celestar> I'm off
17:44:30  <Celestar> bye :D
17:44:45  <peter1138> bai
17:45:01  <glx> Celestar: we have a 3rdparty repo for that ;)
17:45:02  *** Roujin [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:45:16  * bleepy stretches
17:45:20  <peter1138> For what?
17:45:31  <glx> "external" libs
17:45:38  <glx> like squirrel
17:46:27  <Ammler> I should add thos american signals to our pack
17:46:40  <Ammler> and celestar should update av8
17:46:48  <Ammler> then the coop pack is compatible :-)
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17:58:16  <Vemarkis> There seems to be a bug with new cargoes. Cargos like Plastic and Fuel oil do not have their price set in Pikka's Industry set in 0.6.2. Price graph doesn't show the prices either
17:58:38  <Vemarkis> Trains show no profit markers when they unload those cargoes either.
17:58:54  <peter1138> With the GRF in a new game or added later?
17:59:11  <Vemarkis> I dunno how Brianetta added it to the scenario..
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17:59:28  <Vemarkis> but, plastic and fuel oil make no profit on the server no matter how much you transport and what the distance
17:59:50  <Vemarkis> or gravel or any of the other "new" cargos
17:59:54  <peter1138> Yeah
17:59:55  <Rubidium> that'd be great in the real world ;)
17:59:57  <Vemarkis> and they do not show up on the price graph.
18:00:04  <peter1138> Solution: play a different game.
18:00:25  <peter1138> It happens if a GRF is added to a game/scenario after it's generated.
18:00:44  <peter1138> There's a workaround in the nightlies but I guess it didn't make it to 0.6.2
18:01:35  <Ammler> well, you could try my ugly patch :-)
18:02:12  <Ammler> it might be easier to apply then the one from peter...
18:08:40  * Belugas would not touch that patch with a 10 foot poll
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18:14:46  <ln> wow, did you know that the CPU chips of Terminator robots from the future fit into the PCI slot of a VIA Epia?
18:15:57  *** grumbel [] has joined #openttd
18:16:43  <Prof_Frink> Sarah Connor?
18:16:52  <[1]Roujin> will the cargo dest patch always rely on boost?
18:17:13  <ln> Sarah Connor.
18:18:36  <Belugas> Sinead O'Connor?
18:21:59  <[1]Roujin> if so maybe it really would be good to have it on the repo as 3rdparty..
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18:27:37  <Tekky> Phew, I have finally created my first OpenTTD patch. It's just a minor (albeit significant) modification of the OpenTTD station rating system, but it's a start. :-) In case anyone is interested, here is the link:
18:28:00  <Tekky> I hope this will not be my last patch :)
18:28:07  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13995 /trunk/src/network/core/host.cpp: -Fix (r13988): some warnings of the compile farm.
18:28:36  <Rubidium> it just totally destroys the gameplay
18:29:01  <Rubidium> as there will be absolutely no incentive to upgrade your train network anymore
18:29:14  <Rubidium> if it worked in 1920, it'll still work exactly the same in 2090
18:29:44  <Tekky> Well, the reliability of a Ginzu will be much lower in 2090 than in 1950 :)
18:30:06  <Rubidium> not with vehicles never expire
18:31:33  <Tekky> I think the best solution would be to take the average travel speed into account using cargo packets.
18:31:45  <Ammler> Belugas: me too :-)
18:31:47  <Tekky> and base the station rating on that.
18:33:51  <Tekky> But also the time while the train is waiting in the station with a "full load" order should be counted as travel time, IMHO.
18:34:33  <Tekky> I think that would be the best solution, but not easy to program.
18:35:34  <Tekky> and it would also take additional memory, because cargo packets couldn't be merged so easily if the times they were loaded onto the train are different.
18:37:05  <ln>
18:37:41  <peter1138> Hmm, is there any simple-to-use 3d modelling/planning program... for Linux :o
18:37:55  <Celestar> peter1138: modelling/planning of what kind
18:38:32  <peter1138> I'm planning on building some simple furniture.
18:38:35  <Yexo>  <[1]Roujin> if so maybe it really would be good to have it on the repo as 3rdparty.. <- It would be even better if compilation on cygwin was fixed too
18:38:46  <Celestar> peter1138: blender
18:38:53  <peter1138> Blender is not simple :o
18:39:21  <Celestar> possibly
18:39:32  <peter1138> I've tried to use it previously and got nowhere...
18:39:39  <hylje> blender is pretty simple but needs "getting"
18:39:55  <hylje> there's not a large plethora of must-use functions
18:40:05  <Vemarkis> I dunno if Milkshape works on nux, but its simple ;P
18:43:24  <Yexo> Rubidium: openttd give 130 ratings points for station rating if a vehicle loaded/unloaded in the 4 days, while according to ttdpatch gives 130 points if a vehicle (un)loaded in the past 2,5*4=10 days. Is there a reason for this difference?
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18:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> err... i'm missing two grfs from celestars pack...
18:52:20  <ln> '
18:52:22  <Eddi|zuHause3> 535A0501 and 56430001
18:52:34  <[1]Roujin> well then load his pack
18:52:43  <Rubidium> Yexo: because someone failed to properly name some variables
18:52:46  <Eddi|zuHause3> well i did load his pack...
18:53:37  <Ammler>
18:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause3> and it does find grfs that i know for sure i have never ever downloaded before
18:54:20  <Ammler>
18:54:32  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r13996 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r13845): Oilrigs from pre r13838 save games can have unknown water class.
18:54:49  <Rubidium> Yexo: as TTDP and OTTD behave exactly the same w.r.t. to that rating
18:56:50  <Celestar> peter1138:  you desynced several times?
18:57:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> bug: the game does not recognise the new files in the multiplayer window, even after i refreshed the list in the newgrf window
18:57:59  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, it does still say conflict on ttrs3w
18:59:11  <Yexo> Rubidium: aha, just the openttd wiki is wrong in this case, as time_since_load is indeed increased every 2,5 days
18:59:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> wow that is an odyssee...
18:59:36  <Eddi|zuHause3> no company free?
18:59:51  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause3: you can use mine,
19:00:02  <Yexo> that also means that a town only gives a penalty to the town rating if it isn't visited for 80 days instead of 20
19:00:05  <Ammler> but is has just a little coal line
19:00:12  <Yexo> Tekky: you around?
19:00:29  <Eddi|zuHause3> i just entered roujins company
19:00:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> it had negative profit
19:00:40  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: what server are you on?
19:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause3> yours i hope ;)
19:02:16  <peter1138> Celestar, apparently.
19:02:57  <Celestar> peter1138: weird
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19:03:22  <Celestar> we've got to test this one day with the same boost revision
19:03:32  <Celestar> and a disabled autoreplace
19:03:41  <peter1138> I think we need to test it without any GRFs as well, just in case.
19:03:49  <Celestar> yes
19:04:04  <peter1138> Oh, and not 8 companies ;)
19:04:21  <Celestar> why? :P
19:04:27  <Celestar> well it makes debugging kinda hard
19:04:49  <peter1138> Exactly.
19:05:01  <Ammler> company station prefix
19:05:02  <Celestar> Rubidium: could you try to reproduce the problem you were having
19:05:07  <Progman> Celestar, peter1138: dont know if it is a problem or if it is even possible but can cargo packages be merged internaly?
19:05:25  <peter1138> Progman: different source.
19:05:43  <Progman> and different timestamp, so it isn't possible?
19:06:15  <Yexo> but maybe they could still be merged in the gui?
19:06:17  <Celestar> Progman: different timestamps are merged
19:06:26  <Progman> for my patch it should be merged of course ;)
19:06:52  <Celestar> uh not yet
19:07:03  <Celestar> peter1138: why didn't we merge the packets yet and average the time? ;)
19:07:11  <peter1138> Rounding.
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19:07:21  <Celestar> peter1138: oh. right.
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19:07:50  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13997 /trunk/src/network/core/host.cpp: -Fix (r13988): in some cases no broadcast addresses would be found.
19:11:32  <Progman> btw. are you solving a BINPACKING problem by selecting the correct cargo packages for the same direction or do you slip cargo packages? ;)
19:11:46  <Progman> s/slip/split/
19:12:39  <Belugas> cargo dressed a-la-tarzan
19:13:01  <Tekky> Yexo: Yes. I am here now.
19:13:17  <Yexo> Tekky: <Yexo> that also means that a town only gives a penalty to the town rating if it isn't visited for 80 days instead of 20
19:14:06  <Yexo> sorry, not 80, but 50 I think
19:14:34  <Tekky> Yexo: ah, so my patch increased it even further, to a whole year :)
19:14:40  <Yexo> yep
19:14:46  <Yexo> to 90*2,5 to be exact
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19:31:50  <Tekky> Yexo: Ah, yes, thanks, for pointing it out. It is called every 185 ticks, which corresponds to 2.5 days.
19:32:05  <Yexo> exactly, I updated the wiki to reflect that
19:32:42  <Tekky> Yexo: Which wiki page did you update?
19:32:50  <Yexo>
19:32:59  <Yexo> are there more that need updating?
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19:35:12  <Tekky> Yexo: Ah, yes, that is the page I mentioned in the forum. I don't know of any further pages that need updating.
19:36:58  <Tekky> Yexo: Now that I see these new numbers, they seem much more reasonable. :-)
19:37:38  <Yexo> Tekky: if you still want to write a patch, first write one to change the name of the "days_since_pickup" var, as it doesn't count in days
19:38:32  <Rubidium> Yexo: how would you name it then?
19:38:56  <Tekky> Yexo: It is called st->time_since_load with me.
19:39:13  <Yexo> Tekky: that's another one
19:39:30  <peter1138> Progman: Packets can be split. It's cheaper.
19:39:30  <Tekky> Yexo: Ah, in the GoodsEntry struct, yes....
19:39:30  <Yexo> Rubidium: something like time_since_pickup, with a descriptive comment
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19:40:30  <Celestar> peter1138: we can try a 2-player game without grfs tomorrow, just for a short time?
19:41:04  <Rubidium> Celestar: think a 2 company or even 1 company game with more players might be better w.r.t. desync testing
19:41:20  <Rubidium> as you then get more different playing styles that might cause the desync
19:42:00  <Celestar> Rubidium: sure
19:42:11  <Celestar> I dunno how long did you play after I left?
19:42:30  <Rubidium> I left before you moved the server
19:42:46  <peter1138> Celestar, are path costs taken into account yet?
19:42:55  <Celestar> peter1138: in what way?
19:43:04  <Celestar> peter1138: the pathfinder takes them into account, but only the distance
19:43:09  <peter1138> I've got a slow multistop/multitransfer train route being taken in preference to a direct aircraft route.
19:44:03  <peter1138> oh, almost direct
19:44:04  <Rubidium> that's better than my coal train that transported coal to a coal mine
19:44:11  <peter1138> uhhh
19:45:03  <Celestar> peter1138: currently, we're writing the penalty factors to edge_weight2, which is not taken into account. We could just add them to edge_weight in AddRoute. You could try that and see what happens
19:45:59  <Forked> ¯\(º_o)/¯
19:47:33  <Progman> Celestar: is the bug known that sometimes cargo isn't drop at the next hop?
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19:51:01  <Celestar> Progman: apparently yes, but I dunno where it is and how to reproduce
19:51:07  <Celestar> peter1138: did that help?
19:52:07  <Celestar> peter1138: with -d routing=6 you can see the distances (per pathfinding)
19:54:12  <Celestar> so you can see whether the change helps
19:54:23  <Progman> autoreplace breaks the network graph?
19:54:41  <Celestar> with routing=7 you see the distance of each hop
19:54:50  <Celestar> Progman: only with cargo-carrying dualheads afaik
19:55:53  <Progman> hmm, it happends for aircrafts
19:56:24  <Celestar> Progman: honestly I've not looked much into autoreplace and cargodests
19:56:41  <Celestar> as autoreplace has some issues
19:56:52  <Celestar> hitting the hay! good night :D
19:57:49  <Celestar> Progman: it's still on the todo list
19:58:04  <Celestar> at least on mine
19:58:22  <Celestar> Progman: did the cargo type change with the autoreplace?
19:58:36  <Celestar> Progman: if everything else fails, save game, and reload. This should fix it
19:58:49  <Celestar> seeing that the routing network is not in saves
19:58:52  <Celestar> saved*
20:00:38  <Celestar> peter1138: erm and I meant we could multiply them into edge_weight, not add them :P
20:02:53  <Celestar> really off now
20:06:56  <peter1138> Sorry, too busy playing to test it...
20:12:07  <peter1138> Grrr
20:12:12  <peter1138> Silly connection :o
20:12:25  <glx> mine is very stable
20:16:36  <peter1138> Packet loss at some network in between.
20:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> mine is impressively stable ;)
20:19:19  <Eddi|zuHause3> paxdest would heavily benefit from shared stations
20:19:38  <Eddi|zuHause3> interconnection points between networks
20:25:22  <peter1138> Well, less than 1% packet loss, which is pretty normal...
20:25:27  <peter1138> Yes, it would.
20:25:34  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause3: sure thing
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20:27:14  <Belugas> yeah.. and no local authority too
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20:32:28  <peter1138> Belugas, noooo!
20:33:00  <Belugas> :)
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20:57:46  <glx> desync \o/
20:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause3> i saw
20:57:57  <glx> it's the first one
20:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause3> i did nothing meaningful that could have caused it
20:58:33  <glx> me neither
20:58:43  <glx> unless autorenew triggered
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21:12:56  <peter1138> I had autoreplace on for aircraft.
21:13:14  <glx> I used autoreplace for busses
21:13:22  <glx> without problems
21:13:49  * Belugas goes sleeping beauty
21:13:51  <Belugas> ciao
21:17:08  <Ammler> glx, not the one who uses autoreplace desyncs
21:17:20  <Ammler> the those who join after, do
21:17:33  <glx> but there were no desyncs when I used it
21:17:45  <Ammler> did someone join at that time?
21:19:47  * Celestar can't sleep
21:20:30  <Celestar> so what's everyone up to?
21:21:26  *** Rich [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21:33  <peter1138> Hey, found an issue Celestar.
21:21:39  <Celestar> peter1138: go ahead
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21:21:47  <peter1138> Packets won't unload at their source.
21:21:53  <Celestar> yeah
21:21:57  <peter1138> Problem.
21:22:27  <peter1138> I changed a route and the packets which were enroute now need to go back to their source to transfer to another route
21:22:34  <peter1138> But they won't.
21:22:38  <Celestar> I see
21:22:42  <Celestar> so let's not do that
21:22:44  <Celestar> ?
21:22:53  <peter1138> What, not change routes?
21:23:02  <Celestar> not not unload
21:23:15  <peter1138> Ahh
21:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause3> Celestar: i need removal of town roads :(
21:25:00  <Celestar> test
21:25:05  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: hm?
21:25:12  <Eddi|zuHause3> on the server
21:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> the setting for removal of town roads is not enabled
21:25:30  <Eddi|zuHause3> so you can't remove circular roads
21:26:33  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:26:43  <Celestar> how do I set it via console
21:27:31  <Eddi|zuHause3> hm, i don't know
21:28:37  <peter1138> patch somethingsomethingsomething :p
21:28:47  <Ammler> extra_dynamite
21:29:10  <Prof_Frink> No openttd and no beer make Prof_Frink something something.
21:29:14  <Ammler> not that obvious...
21:34:03  <ln>
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21:49:03  <ln> ok
21:50:21  <Celestar> I'm desyncing on my own server for some reason :P
21:51:46  <Celestar> instantaneously
21:51:50  <peter1138> Yeah
21:52:05  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13998 /trunk/projects/ (8 files): -Fix [FS#2004]: MSVC can't handle changed files in the prebuild event, so make the version determination a separate subproject (michi_cc).
21:52:06  <peter1138> As did my spectator client...
21:53:51  <Celestar> I wonder what exactly is going wrong
21:54:12  <peter1138> Hmm
21:54:15  <peter1138> That was bad.
21:54:19  <peter1138> Now I can't play :p
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21:55:19  <Celestar> what was bad
21:55:33  <peter1138> Enabled some debugging...
21:55:44  <peter1138> Took so long printing it I got disconnected.
21:55:58  <peter1138> So, does route insertion order matter?
21:56:21  <Celestar> that's a good question
21:56:50  <Celestar> we could restart the server and see what happens
21:58:22  <peter1138> It'll probably be fine, but doesn't really help solve anything :)
21:58:50  <peter1138> You want a route network dump on the server and a just-joined client...
22:00:00  <Rubidium> *or* for local reproduction: copy the route table, clear, rebuild, compare each tick (or few ticks)
22:00:26  <Rubidium> (as happens in YAPF's desyc debug)
22:00:26  <Celestar> hm, afaik the edge list should be sorted
22:01:02  <peter1138> It may just be a NewGRF bug ;)
22:01:49  <Celestar> :P
22:02:02  <Celestar> that's why maybe we should start a newgrf-less server
22:02:03  <peter1138> Right, sleepy time
22:02:14  <peter1138> Yup
22:02:15  <Celestar> I'll do that tomorrow or something
22:02:52  <Celestar> hm ..
22:02:57  <Celestar> it's weak ordering
22:03:25  <Celestar> I'm off a bit
22:04:44  <Celestar> but Rubidium I'm open for suggestions on how to implement suchs a desync debugger 8)
22:05:46  <Rubidium> as I said: clone routing tables, rebuild routing table, compare rebuild and cloned -> mismatch: not MP safe
22:05:52  *** stillunk1own [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:06:21  <Rubidium> similarly to openttd.cpp:1006+
22:07:16  <Celestar> I'll give this a thought
22:07:23  <Eddi|zuHause3> i want to report a bug: i am not making a shitload of money
22:07:32  <Celestar> but I'll be away from Friday for 12 days or something
22:07:40  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause3: yeah, it's MUCH harder (=
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22:08:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> it's mainly due to the overload of passengers, they spend too much time in transfer
22:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause3> it'd be a lot better with fewer passengers
22:08:33  <glx> Eddi|zuHause3: remove your 2 never used stations ;)
22:08:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> i have no idea where they are
22:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause3> they were from roujin i believe
22:09:05  <glx> Wrunway
22:10:03  <Eddi|zuHause3> yeah, found it
22:10:18  <Eddi|zuHause3> which idiot built that kind of route...
22:10:53  <Prof_Frink> glx: Is there an airport at Wrunway?
22:11:02  <glx> no
22:11:04  <Prof_Frink> Shame
22:11:10  <Prof_Frink> Wrunway runway
22:11:13  <glx> only an unused train station
22:11:50  <Eddi|zuHause3> Alons-y Alonso?
22:12:16  <Eddi|zuHause3> is that written with double l?
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22:12:20  <glx> double l
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22:17:35  <Eddi|zuHause3> a railbus (VT-95) is totally useless with that kind of passenger amounts
22:18:01  <Eddi|zuHause3> i'm gonna go now
22:18:37  <Celestar> me too
22:19:38  <glx> why can't I autoreplace my airships ?
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22:23:10  <Eddi|zuHause3> possibly because they are helicopters?
22:25:15  <glx> but I see the planes in the list
22:25:37  <glx> (though I see elctric trains only in non electric view)
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22:32:02  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r13999 /trunk/src/ai/default/default.cpp: -Fix [FS#2190]: crash when the AI tries to find the depot of an airport that doesn't have a depot.
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23:32:27  <ln> Bjarni has left the channel
23:34:42  <SmatZ> hehe
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23:47:24  <nicfer> about the forests as fields, is that possible with newgrf?
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23:57:40  <Belugas> nicfer, what do you mean?
23:57:52  <nicfer> oh, bad english here
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23:58:27  <nicfer> I mean if there is a property that allows you to make primary industries act like farms
23:58:57  <nicfer> aka creating fields nearby
23:58:59  <Belugas> what is the behaviour that you want to duplicate in farms?
23:59:06  <Belugas> the fact that they plant fields?
23:59:13  <Belugas> when they are producing?
23:59:24  <nicfer> exactly
23:59:39  <Belugas> so, instead of fields, yo would see trees instead?

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