Log for #openttd on 20th August 2008:
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00:05:31  <Belugas> compilage time
00:05:46  <Belugas> testifying the beautifying
00:06:13  <Sacro> def get_tomorrow_date():
00:06:13  <Sacro>   time.sleep(86400)
00:06:13  <Sacro>   return time.localtime()
00:06:43  <dragonhorseboy> :)
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00:33:31  <adam-> Good morning. I'm looking to get/use the Cargo Destination patch. On the forum it says I should come here and ask for directions, so here I am...
00:33:57  <glx> can you compile?
00:34:03  <adam-> yep
00:34:25  <adam-> I have Mercurial too
00:34:37  <glx>
00:34:39  <glx> it's there
00:35:07  <glx> you'll need boost too
00:35:20  <adam-> ok
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01:20:15  <Belugas> i think i've never seen as much buzz around a patch than that one :)
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01:29:18  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14104 /trunk/ (13 files in 4 dirs):
01:29:18  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Feature: Add a window for waypoints, allowing to view all the trains having the selected waypoint in their orders.
01:29:18  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: Changing its name is also supported from the same new window.
01:29:18  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: Gui based on work done by Satyap, on FS#2025.
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01:38:25  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14105 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
01:38:25  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: Some typos that are more grammatical errors, as it seems.
01:38:25  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: Provided by ln
01:38:25  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: I've added a little fix on currency.cpp too, why not :)
01:42:35  <Sacro>
01:51:29  *** Sacro is now known as Sacro|Here
01:53:19  <Belugas> hehe... been at home, i can use your links, Sacro|Here :D
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02:12:27  <Sacro|Here> Belugas: you there :\
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02:18:21  <Sacro|Here> Anyone around? :|
02:19:18  <Belugas> i am
02:19:20  <Belugas> just..
02:19:25  <Belugas> browsing the forums
02:19:28  <Belugas> and you?
02:19:38  <Sacro|Here> Belugas: i have a self supplying food processing plant
02:19:45  <Sacro|Here> it produces goods
02:19:49  <Sacro|Here> yet nothing is going in
02:19:58  <Belugas> lucky you :)
02:20:15  <Belugas> magical industry!
02:20:18  <Sacro|Here> bug?
02:21:57  <Belugas> dunno
02:22:10  <Belugas> can you reproduce?
02:22:16  <Sacro|Here> well
02:22:17  <Sacro|Here> not sure
02:22:28  <Sacro|Here> can you check out Brianetta's standard server?
02:22:46  <Sacro|Here> is needed
02:22:48  <Sacro|Here> and 0.6.2
02:23:42  <Belugas> no, i cannot right now
02:23:48  <Sacro|Here> mine is producting 580T of goods a month
02:23:52  <Sacro|Here> with nothing going in
02:24:06  <Sacro|Here> so either they are breeding animals themself
02:24:13  <Sacro|Here> or using the population of the local town
02:26:20  <Sacro|Here> Belugas: it's running out now :(
02:26:53  <Belugas> hehe
02:26:57  <Sacro|Here> nope
02:27:02  <Sacro|Here> something is slowly trickling in
02:27:06  <Sacro|Here> it's getting provided
02:27:13  <Sacro|Here> yet there's no stations in the area supplying
02:40:11  <Belugas> there are NO BUHS in Openttd!!
02:40:14  <Belugas> BUGS
02:40:18  <Belugas> pffff....
02:40:20  <Belugas> rrrr
02:40:21  <Belugas> zzzzz
02:40:23  <Belugas> off
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05:57:13  <adam-> If I find a bug in the Cargo Destination patch, where would I file that at?
06:00:09  <dih> tell Celestar and/or peter1138
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06:38:08  <Celestar> morning
06:38:50  <Forked> moornin
06:39:59  <peter1138> Hi.
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06:54:41  <Celestar> hey peter1138
06:54:44  <Celestar> any news?
06:56:48  <peter1138> Yeah, I resolved my sprite issues but in an ugly way :o
06:57:12  <Celestar> :(
06:57:20  <Celestar> I've had an idea for a more useful station view mode
06:58:02  <Celestar> especially on very large and busy maps
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07:07:59  <Celestar> so far, I'm not having much luck :P
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07:08:12  * Forked is high on coffee
07:08:12  <planetmaker> morning
07:09:38  <peter1138> What's the idea?
07:10:27  <Celestar> peter1138: having a tree-like view
07:10:47  <peter1138> Tree-like?
07:11:09  <peter1138> Make a mockup ;)
07:12:40  <Celestar> already doing so ;)
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07:17:26  <peter1138> Crap, committed too much :/
07:18:33  <peter1138> Just need to do bridges/stations/waypoints/depots properly...
07:19:15  <peter1138> And level crossings :o
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07:25:10  <Celestar> peter1138: SpComb:
07:26:54  <planetmaker> looks interesting, Celestar :)
07:27:07  <Celestar> not *quite* perfect
07:29:34  <planetmaker> it would be even better, if it could be graphically enhanced like in some forums with thread indentation:
07:30:11  <Celestar> enhanced, how?
07:30:22  <Celestar> first of all the order is not correct, that's the worse problem
07:30:34  <planetmaker> main
07:30:35  <planetmaker> |-1st dest
07:30:37  <planetmaker> |  |-1.1st dest
07:30:39  <planetmaker> |  |-1.2nd dest
07:30:40  <planetmaker> |-2nd dest
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07:32:16  <Celestar> well, that'll be easy to add later
07:32:45  <Celestar> I also need an entry how many passengers actually LEAVE
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07:39:40  <peter1138> So a new sorter is needed.
07:39:57  <Celestar> nah
07:40:08  <Celestar> I'm just building up the list correctly
07:40:20  <Celestar> the sorter would have a shitload of work to do
07:40:28  <Celestar> because it doesn't know anything about the logic behind it
07:41:06  <Celestar> I'm looping through an std::list with some iterator. What's the easiest way to insert an element AFTER the current iterator?
07:41:13  <Celestar> list::insert does it before, right?
07:43:16  <blathijs> Celestar: ++  and then insert? :-)
07:46:45  <SpComb> Celestar: that looks interesting, but without seeing the stations/routes it's a bit hard to understand exactly what it's saying
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07:48:47  <Celestar> SpComb: "seeing the stations/routes" ?
07:49:39  <SpComb> Celestar: I mean, looking at that text, the meaning of the nested stuff isn't intuatively clear
07:54:56  <planetmaker> IMO the only question remaining is: are the numbers of a lower level the cumulative number (that station and all who want to transfer there) or is it the number only for that station?
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07:57:02  <Celestar> planetmaker: cumulative
07:57:13  <Celestar> can change this however, or will possibly display both
07:57:21  <planetmaker> :)
07:57:34  <Celestar> SpComb: you won't get a fully graphical representation in the first iteration, unless you code it :D
07:58:37  <Celestar> note to self: writing a statement after break; is kinda st00pid
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08:00:27  <SpComb> so should that be read as "1431 passengers are taking the train which will next stop at Melstadt, 191 of those will then get onto the train that next stops at FÃŒrustenberg, and then 109 of those will get onto the train/bus/whatever that next stops at FÃŒrstenberg Central"?
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08:01:02  <SpComb> specifically, I'm a bit confused as to how those work for trains that stop at multiple stations, is that station there the one that the passengers get off at, or the one that the train next stops at?
08:02:37  <planetmaker> <-- currently I store the last bridge being built in a global var. Is it better advisable to store it somehow int the BridgeBuildWindow?
08:02:52  <planetmaker> I refrained from doing so as I try to avoid drawing that window :)
08:03:08  <Celestar> SpComb: the gui has no access to the information, and neither has the routing system, SpComb
08:04:01  <Celestar> SpComb: the routing system knows that to get from A to B it has to go via C. It doesn't know whether there's a direct train running the route or not.
08:05:10  <SpComb> if the passengers at station A want to go to station B, and there's one train that goes A-D-C, and then one that goes C-B, what do the passengers show up as?
08:05:21  <SpComb> "xxx passengers going via D to B"?
08:05:37  <Celestar> they'll show up in D, C and B
08:05:53  <Celestar> meh.
08:06:01  <Celestar> can't list::insert work as list::push_back :S
08:06:47  <SpComb> "show up in"? I'm just talking about the passengers that are currently at station A
08:11:06  <Celestar> SpComb: you've got to think in adjacencies
08:11:20  <Celestar> SpComb: cargo *only* knows about the next hop
08:13:58  <Celestar> and it's destination of course
08:18:39  <peter1138> There is no decision about where to transfer, hence there is no "transfer at" view :/
08:20:14  <SpComb> right, so a passenger at station A only knows (D, B)?
08:21:12  <peter1138> It knows B, and it knows to get to B it needs to go via D
08:21:15  <SpComb> the other thing I was talking about was being able to see what passengers you have on a train, currently it only shows you the source (per-wagon) - what's the feasability of that?
08:21:34  <Celestar> peter1138's working on that one already
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08:23:31  <peter1138> < Vehicle steps on that must be horrible...
08:24:16  <Celestar> "vehicle steps" ?
08:24:32  <peter1138> Game units.
08:24:39  <peter1138> 16 to a tile...
08:25:55  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm rather worried about the 45° turns than about the 16 units per tile
08:26:15  <peter1138> That too.
08:26:42  <Brianetta> You only need to show start and destination
08:26:49  <Brianetta> The ticket says "all routes+"
08:27:01  <Brianetta> and the passenger is assumed to make his own way across the platform (:
08:27:38  <Celestar> in Germany, the tickets rarely sais "all routes" :P
08:27:56  <Celestar> it usually sais: Munich - Hamburg: via: NUE:WUE:FUL:HAN
08:28:00  <Celestar> or something like that :P
08:28:26  * Celestar curses
08:28:30  <Celestar> Why can't I get this order right
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08:40:55  <Celestar> peter1138: that screeny, is that real or photoshopped?
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08:42:37  <Celestar> :o 256x128 pixels tile size
08:42:59  <peter1138> I think it's real.
08:43:02  <Celestar> that's 64 times as big as today
08:43:35  <peter1138> I think we've already stated that we don't really want the extra zoom levels :)
08:43:53  <Celestar> peter1138: one zoom level would be cool, *maybe* a second one
08:43:56  <Celestar> but eight?
08:44:08  <peter1138> I agree on one zoom level.
08:44:14  <planetmaker> google OpenTTD ;)
08:44:28  <Ammler> maybe zoom levels only in paused mode :-)
08:45:06  <planetmaker> just like google maps :P
08:45:44  <peter1138> One major problem of the patch for that is it only supports 32bpp mode.
08:45:55  <Celestar> peter1138: I don't *really* see that as problem
08:46:02  <peter1138> I do.
08:46:16  <peter1138> I want to be able to zoom in once on the original graphics too.
08:46:31  <Celestar> peter1138: just thinking, trg1r.pcx is about 4MB, if we have 64 times the sprite size, that'll be 256MB of the main sprites alone
08:46:50  <peter1138> *nod*
08:46:56  <Celestar> we'd need 64 times the sprite cache
08:47:05  <Brianetta> or just swap in the sprites as needed
08:47:11  <Brianetta> You'd need a monster machine for that
08:47:54  <peter1138> Celestar, by "only supports 32bpp mode" I mean "crashes if 8bpp is used"
08:48:13  <Celestar> peter1138: that is *nod* good (=
08:48:16  <Celestar> er..
08:48:19  <Celestar> not even :P
08:49:24  <peter1138> I solved my ugly code problem by adding a new function called DrawGroundSpriteWithOffset()
08:49:45  <peter1138> Hmm, probably I could just add the offset to DrawGroundSprite and default it to 0
08:49:52  <Celestar> *nod*
08:49:55  <peter1138> Still, it works :)
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08:50:55  <peter1138> < That is fixed :D
08:51:56  <Celestar> peter1138: what am I seeing?
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08:52:05  <peter1138> Track pieces in the wrong place, heh...
08:52:18  <planetmaker> horizontal looks misplaced...
08:52:33  <peter1138> Vertical too, in some places.
08:52:58  <peter1138> There's a copy of the repo online now, but, uh, I didn't upload the current GRF for it :/
08:53:33  <peter1138> Celestar: sneak2.png and sneak3.png may explain a little more :)
08:54:24  <Celestar>
08:54:36  <Celestar>
08:54:54  <Celestar> nice one :D
08:56:03  <SpComb> why are there three "convert rail" buttons? :o
08:56:28  <peter1138> Because I didn't have the correct graphics for the other two.
08:58:10  <Brianetta> peter1138: Is "Metro" another power source?
08:58:50  <planetmaker> peter1138: is that work towards a "more railtypes" patch?
08:59:30  <planetmaker> Brianetta: mostly it's another railtype, introduced in the 2cc set - my uneducated guess :)
09:00:01  * Celestar is frustrated with std::list
09:00:01  <Celestar> it's the wrong tool for storing a tree (=
09:00:01  * Celestar wants an std::tree
09:00:03  <Celestar> PING
09:02:36  <Brianetta> planetmaker: By "power source" I mean "railtype compatible with standard rails, but with train compatibility filtered by power type"
09:02:42  <Brianetta> like elrails
09:03:42  <planetmaker> hm, I see. Might be interesting to configure that via grf :)
09:05:14  <peter1138> Brianetta, it can be.
09:05:41  <peter1138> The spec allows for it, but the GRF I made does not do it.
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09:10:51  <Celestar> GAAH
09:10:57  * Celestar goes adding fprintfs
09:11:47  * planetmaker ponders how much Celestar's profession has risen his frustration tolerance ;)
09:12:24  <Celestar> planetmaker: I'm a PhD student, I have ZERO frustration tolerance
09:12:47  <planetmaker> oh? Hm... I thought that was the main goal of doing a PhD to rise that tolerance ;)
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09:14:29  <Celestar> planetmaker: it comes and goes
09:14:38  <Brianetta> no, tha main goal of doing a PhD is to make people have to call you Doctor
09:14:38  <planetmaker> :)
09:15:05  <Brianetta> One must do shitloads of really hard work to be called Doctor
09:15:16  <planetmaker> and try to sell you towels and other medical stuff in the wrong assumption you got a PhD in medicine. Yeah... right ;)
09:15:29  <Brianetta> no
09:15:37  <Brianetta> Any doctorate is awesome in my book
09:15:53  <Brianetta> Celestar: What's yours in?
09:15:58  <planetmaker> They did try with my father...
09:16:33  <planetmaker> my guess would be engineering.
09:17:04  <Celestar> Brianetta: Numerical Fluid-dynamics
09:17:24  <Brianetta> Oooh
09:17:25  <Celestar> <= Aerospace Engineer
09:17:29  <Brianetta> Is that, like, thin pipes go faster?
09:17:47  <planetmaker> :P hardly, I guess
09:17:52  <Brianetta> They do
09:17:56  <Brianetta> in a closed system
09:18:01  <Celestar> it's a little ... more complicated :P
09:18:06  <planetmaker> depends, Brianetta
09:18:07  <Brianetta> Well, yeah
09:18:46  <Brianetta> Are you going to be the guy who predicts turbulence?
09:18:56  <Brianetta> That's be awesome²
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09:20:00  <Celestar> about that :P
09:20:02  <Celestar> yes :P
09:20:09  <Brianetta> (:
09:21:27  <planetmaker> long live Cholmogorov ;)
09:21:27  <Celestar> it is predicable, on a statistical level
09:21:46  <Brianetta> Speaking of fluid dynamics... this isn't quite it, but it's cool:
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09:26:10  <xahodo> Hello
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09:28:33  <SpComb> pretty neat
09:29:09  <Celestar> heya
09:29:18  <xahodo> I can't log in on flyspray, although I am registered. :(
09:30:35  <planetmaker> works here.
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09:33:07  <Celestar> BAH
09:33:22  <Celestar> list.insert(it, DATA);
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09:33:30  <Celestar> where does "it" point to after this statement?
09:34:53  <xahodo> It gets even better. I can go through the procedure to change my password, but when I try to reregister, it simply tells me my nickname is already taken. When I try to login though, it isn't aware of my nickname's existance.
09:35:52  <Rubidium> then you never acknowledged the email about your registration
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09:37:24  <xahodo> errr... I'm already registered there and posted some bugs.
09:39:03  <Rubidium> what's your username on fs?
09:39:07  <xahodo> Expresso
09:41:09  <Rubidium> and now?
09:41:13  <Rubidium> does it work?
09:41:35  <xahodo> yes, now it does.
09:41:39  <xahodo> what was the problem?
09:41:48  <Rubidium> you weren't part of any group
09:41:51  * peter1138 ponders working on ... oh crap, I turned my home PC off :(
09:41:54  <Rubidium> no idea what caused that
09:42:17  <Rubidium> peter1138: use your adidas-network to wake it up ;)
09:42:29  <peter1138> My what?
09:42:54  <Rubidium>
09:42:55  <peter1138> Hmm, forums down :o
09:43:03  <xahodo> Well, the first time I got in this from flyspray was when I noticed the upgrade (if it was upgraded).
09:44:00  <peter1138> And ouch, 22 hops to wiki :o
09:44:51  <peter1138> Do we want speed limits for rail types?
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09:45:56  <Brianetta> FOr an entire railtype? no
09:46:04  <Brianetta> Trains have limits we can enforce
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09:48:05  <peter1138> Hmm, I need to draw some sample images...
09:48:48  <Celestar> peter1138: yeah, why not? so we can have normal rails and high-speed rails at about 5 times the price?
09:53:16  <Amixbook> would be great
09:53:47  <Celestar> peter1138:
09:53:50  <Celestar> SpComb: for you too (=
09:53:57  <Amixbook> same with tram tracks... on own track faster, while in cities slower?
09:54:32  <peter1138> Wow.
09:54:35  <peter1138> Is that real? ;)
09:54:48  <Celestar> peter1138: yes
09:54:50  <peter1138> Trams are slow enough as is ;)
09:55:03  <Celestar> peter1138: what do you think it is? photoshopped? :P
09:55:35  <Celestar> peter1138: It'd take me 5 times as much time to photoshop in then to code it :P
09:56:06  <Amixbook> but trams runs faster on its own track peter1138
09:56:23  <Amixbook> they can run upto 130km on own tracks
09:56:44  <Amixbook> especially those train-trams in France
09:57:12  * Celestar finds it embarassing that the ICE3 runs faster in France than it runs in Germany :P
09:57:26  <Amixbook>
09:57:57  <Amixbook> Celestar: why is it so?
09:58:11  <Celestar> Amixbook: because the germans are too stupid to build proper tracks
09:58:31  <Amixbook> ohh
09:58:34  <peter1138> Celestar, could be just random figures ;)
09:58:35  <Ammler> Amixbook: combining road tracks with rail tracks won't be that easy, I guess...
09:59:03  <Amixbook> Ammler: the tram tracks runs already on road tracks
09:59:13  <Eddi|zuHause> <peter1138> Do we want speed limits for rail types? <- yes, but possible to turn off (like wagon speed limits)
09:59:23  <Celestar> Amixbook: the Train itself has a Vmax of 330km/h (standard), or 350km/h (modded version for Spain). It runs up to 320km/h in France (most likely because the French don't want the ICE to run faster than the ICE), but no more than 300km/h in Germany (no faster certified tracks).
10:00:10  <Celestar> Amixbook: the version for the spanish market can even go 400km/h in normal configuration, making it the fastest production-train by a large margin.
10:00:24  <Amixbook> ahh
10:01:05  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that can be done with GRF parameters.
10:01:07  <Amixbook> Norway have ordered 50 of these
10:01:08  <Celestar> but the ETCS goes only up to 350km/h afaik
10:01:14  <Amixbook> from Switzerland
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10:01:23  <Amixbook> Stadler  I think
10:01:24  <Amixbook> ;p
10:01:31  <Amixbook> dont know the exact name
10:01:46  <SpComb> Celestar: is this new GUI hg-pullable?
10:01:58  <Celestar> SpComb: not yet, but it will be after I've cleaned it up
10:01:59  <Amixbook> they can run upto 200km/h i think
10:02:03  <Forked> Amixbook: :p
10:02:15  <Amixbook> well
10:02:18  <Celestar> SpComb: or after peter's helped me with cleaning it up (=
10:02:22  <Amixbook> that wasnt a news
10:02:33  <Amixbook> that i didnt know would have come
10:02:34  <Amixbook> ;p
10:03:01  <Amixbook> Forked: Its funny that Kjels?s got such standard
10:03:03  <Amixbook> haha
10:03:11  <SpComb> what's the grand plan for merging this into trunk, btw?
10:03:15  <Forked> so three out of threehundredandsixty stations are compatible with the new trainsets
10:03:19  <Forked> sweet
10:03:27  <Eddi|zuHause> road types need speed limits, too
10:03:32  <Eddi|zuHause> especially in cities
10:03:35  <Forked> are you in a wheelchair? well then it sucks to be you unless you use two of the following threehundredandsixty stations
10:03:54  <Amixbook> Forked: well.. its easier building stations than rebuilding trains
10:04:13  <Amixbook> Forked: you have to use Kjels?s station
10:04:14  <Amixbook> :D
10:04:42  <Forked> well it's easier ordering trains that "fit" than rebuilding stations :\
10:04:54  <Forked> anyway I live in Ålesund, we only do hurtigruta
10:05:12  <Amixbook> ahh
10:05:23  <Amixbook> norway politics should be hanged
10:05:24  <Amixbook> ;P
10:05:32  <Amixbook> politicians
10:05:32  <Forked> same goes for most politicians
10:05:38  <Amixbook> hehe
10:05:58  <Amixbook> first we close down trams in Bergen
10:06:07  <Amixbook> then after 15 years
10:06:12  <Amixbook> were building it up again
10:06:23  <Celestar> bah
10:06:33  <Celestar> there's a shitload of code duplication I have there
10:07:16  <Celestar> or not ..
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10:07:56  <fjb> Hello
10:08:02  <Amixbook> hey
10:08:41  <Amixbook> Forked: would be nice if they started to build double tracks all over norway
10:08:51  <Amixbook> and by 2012 having a great system
10:08:59  <Amixbook> but things must take forevere here
10:09:01  <Amixbook> ;(
10:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> you want to complete something in 4 years?
10:10:32  <Forked> I'd rather have fibre optic than trains here =p
10:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause> do you have any idea how long they are planning and building on the high speed track from Erfurt to Halle/Leipzig meanwhile?
10:11:42  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: they should cancel it
10:11:53  <Celestar> Build the TR from NUE-LEJ and NUE-FRA
10:12:00  <Celestar> costs less.
10:12:25  <Amixbook> Eddi|zuHause: 20th of September is a special day for UBB Bahn
10:12:42  <Amixbook> then UBB bahn will go into Poland for the first time
10:12:42  <Celestar> topography in Germany (and Norway) is suboptimal for high-speed railways
10:12:58  <Celestar> UBB?
10:13:00  <Amixbook> Norway is way more rocks
10:13:10  <Amixbook> Celestar: yes
10:13:19  <Celestar> Amixbook: and much lower population density. also suboptimal for trains
10:13:28  <Amixbook>
10:13:54  <Eddi|zuHause> UBB as in "Usedomer BÀderbahn"?
10:14:01  <Amixbook> yes
10:14:12  <Amixbook> 20th of September it will go into Swinoujscie
10:14:25  <Eddi|zuHause> SwinemÃŒnde, yes...
10:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> i've been there a while ago
10:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> 2000
10:14:59  <Amixbook> now you can just walk over the border
10:15:02  <Amixbook> pretty cool
10:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause> they just opened the new bridge in Wolgast back then, and for the first time drove to the "main land" :)
10:15:53  <Amixbook> :)
10:16:14  <Amixbook> now you can take a train from Berlin to Swinoujscie
10:16:18  <Amixbook> 4 times a day
10:16:52  <Eddi|zuHause> the old bridge to Usedom was destroyed in WWII
10:16:55  <Amixbook> Eddi|zuHause: i am born there
10:17:50  <Amixbook> Poland is gaining Norway in train efficency
10:17:57  <Amixbook> thats really bad for norway
10:18:16  <Celestar> SpComb: it can be pulled now. Is your server still running?
10:18:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the last time the train was going to SwinemÃŒnde, there was no Poland there :p
10:18:47  <SpComb> Celestar: yes, but it's paused, I have to leave to work soonish, and I'm going to be busy for most of the evening
10:18:52  <Amixbook> Now they have new trains going between Swinoujscie and Szcezcin running at 160km/t making a trip that took 3-4 hours down to 1 hour
10:19:17  <Celestar> SpComb: I see. np
10:19:23  <Celestar> SpComb: did you hit any desyncs yesterday?
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10:19:30  <SpComb> nope, not a single one
10:19:41  <Amixbook> Forked: hehe.. :D
10:19:44  <Amixbook> fibre is nice
10:20:02  <Celestar> SpComb: awesome
10:20:09  <Forked> so is vdsl2, if only the cobber cabling in this town wasnt so shit
10:20:09  <SpComb> I'll try updating and give it a quick look, but I have to leave in half an hour
10:21:17  <Celestar> SpComb: if you could just leave it running (paused) then I'd have a look at well
10:21:22  <Celestar> SpComb: just tell me when you have updated it
10:22:41  <SpComb> it's compiling right now
10:22:46  <Celestar> great
10:23:10  <Celestar> what's the IP/hostname again?
10:23:37  <SpComb> the server's running now,
10:23:49  <SpComb> or, actually, but there's no difference
10:23:49  <Celestar> thanks
10:24:03  <Amixbook> Forked: i am actually a morphos user ;P i use my mac at the moment. will be moving this weekend. then i am back :)
10:24:20  <SpComb> how difficult is it to set up a cross-compilation environment and build win32 .exe's on linux?
10:24:30  <SpComb> the wiki looked kind of intimidating on that issu
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10:25:27  <Celestar> dunno
10:25:55  * SpComb waits for his new CPU to be delivered while waiting for openttd to compile on his desktop
10:27:11  <Celestar> heh
10:27:48  <SpComb> it's so nice and fast when compiling with -j9 on a dual-quad xeon that it feels painful on a X2 3800
10:28:02  <Celestar> heh
10:28:09  <Celestar> I'm on a Pentium-M 770
10:28:18  <Celestar> gonna upgrade to a Core 2 Duo P8600 soon
10:28:24  <Noldo> does the new openttd megaserver mean also more nightly targets?
10:28:27  <peter1138> Dual-quad? You probably want -j 17...
10:28:32  <Gekz> Lol.
10:28:38  <Celestar> why exactly 17?
10:28:40  <peter1138> I use -j 8 on my single quad.
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10:28:53  <Celestar> I use -j3 on my desktop :P
10:28:57  <peter1138> Celestar, two per core and one extra, for some reason...
10:29:03  <Gekz> I use -j2 on my eeepc.
10:29:05  <Eddi|zuHause> 2n+1
10:29:26  <Celestar> heh... and -j16 if the cluster is free ;)
10:29:36  <peter1138> Takes me about 18 seconds or so. SpComb's must be able to compile it in about 10 seconds.
10:30:06  <Celestar> 18 SECONDS?
10:30:18  <Celestar> my 770 needs about 2.5 minutes for the full recompile
10:30:43  <peter1138> Yes. My old PC took about 6 minutes.
10:31:01  <Celestar> this isn't exactly "old"
10:31:06  <peter1138> Mine was :)
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10:32:45  <Celestar> peter1138: hwat CPU was it?
10:33:50  <peter1138> AMD Athlon 800.
10:34:05  <Celestar> oh
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10:34:32  <peter1138> How do I upload an image to the wiki?
10:36:04  <peter1138> Ah, done it... now how to link them... :)
10:36:12  <Forked> Amixbook: uhm what? :p
10:37:00  <peter1138>
10:37:01  <peter1138> :D
10:37:38  <peter1138> SketchUp is my friend.
10:37:56  <Celestar> heh
10:38:23  <Celestar> when showing the waiting cargo for a route A-B-C ... maybe the number of passengers boarding at B would be helpful?
10:39:09  <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: how about increasing the number of junction underground pieces?
10:39:37  <peter1138> Why?
10:40:10  <peter1138> I don't fancy one for every conceivable junction layout.
10:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> for switches? i hardly ever build triangles of tracks anymore...
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10:42:13  <Celestar> peter1138: Rubidium: we have an obiwan in the chat window
10:42:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it's probably fine for normal rails, but the metro rails, where the 3rd rail is "embedded" in the rail underground, it looks kinda ugly
10:42:22  *** fmauNekAway is now known as fmauNeko
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10:42:46  <Celestar> peter1138: Rubidium:
10:44:54  <Celestar> I've got to head into a meeting
10:45:17  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, that's another 12 sprites... Hmm...
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10:45:48  <peter1138> On the other hand, if you're doing all those, you can draw the track on them too.
10:45:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could maybe make those optional, and fall back to the other ones if not specified...
10:46:01  <peter1138> So it is actually less work for the game.
10:46:09  <peter1138> Hmm...
10:46:22  <peter1138> Doable.
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10:51:27  <Celestar> peter1138: so. the new GUI is pullable, we've still got the Total Cargo View, the network test yesterday passed without a desync, and we might need/want another code review by someone else than the two of us. right?
10:57:42  <Celestar> wow that WAS a conversation killer :P
10:58:10  <hylje> OMG! CODE REVIEWS!
10:58:22  <Forked> RUN!
11:01:10  <peter1138>
11:01:19  <peter1138> ^ Anyone fancy correcting this guy?
11:02:34  <Celestar> reading
11:03:05  <Celestar> you mean that "tut" guy?
11:03:18  <peter1138> Yes. I did link directly to his last post.
11:03:33  <Celestar> he has NFI
11:03:44  <Forked> it's not 0.6.2 if it has yapp .. and if both versions returned the same version number that would make things alot worse
11:03:52  <peter1138> I merely hope he's not the actual FreeBSD port maintainer :)
11:04:42  <Forked> how is this for a response? "so.. you feel that a modified version of 0.6.2 claiming to be 0.6.2 will make things .. easier?" :p
11:05:38  <Celestar> what does he *want* ?
11:06:15  <Celestar> 0.6.2 with yapp?
11:06:23  <Forked> yup
11:06:40  <Celestar> he has even less of a FI than I thought then :P
11:09:28  <Celestar> I'm off for a meeting and stuff
11:09:31  <Celestar> back in an hour or two
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11:14:46  <planetmaker> Forked: I just posted something along those lines :P
11:14:57  <planetmaker> obviously to him some things are far from clear...
11:15:00  <Forked> ye I saw
11:15:52  <planetmaker> [13:03]	<peter1138>	I merely hope he's not the actual FreeBSD port maintainer :) <--- let's hope that indeed :)
11:16:09  <fjb> Maintainer of the FreeBSD port is
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11:19:51  <fjb> Maybe orudge could take a look if the email address tut registered with has any similarity with danfe.
11:20:09  <planetmaker> :D
11:20:41  <planetmaker> I would like to doubt that... but better save than sorry?
11:20:52  <planetmaker> save or safe? safe, right?
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11:21:06  <fjb> But FreeBSD has a lot of ports in a stable version and an additional development version.
11:23:02  <fjb> And there is really no difficulty in compiling OpenTTD on FreeBSD on your own. It compiles out of the box.
11:23:50  <planetmaker> most probable even, most people who use FreeBSD are capable of compiling...
11:24:22  <CommanderZ> so why is he porting something that doesnt need to be ported?
11:24:52  <peter1138> FreeBSD 'ports' is a build system.
11:25:19  <fjb> Yes, but with a portts system like FreeBSD has you get lazy. You don't have to think about how to compile, just cd into the ports directory and type "make install".
11:26:28  <fjb> The ports system keeps track about the installed files and cleanly removes them if you want to get rid of that program.
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11:27:35  <CommanderZ> windows should have something like that
11:28:52  <fjb> Yes. :-)
11:30:38  <fjb> You can also install FreeBSD without the C compiler. The FreeBSD project offers compiles binaries of most ports, calles packages. The ports system also keeps track of the files from the packages.
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11:40:19  <Rubidium> luckily there's already a FreeBSD OS in flyspray, so we can just close all those bugs as: not using an unmodified binary
11:49:54  <Eddi|zuHause> if he wants "YAPP" as a compile time option, why doesn't he just make "nightly" a compile time option?
11:51:31  <planetmaker> smaller player base. :P
11:51:48  <planetmaker> I've serious doubts though that with a patched 0.6.2 his player base will become larger :D
11:52:52  *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies]
11:52:54  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it's bad... i have accepted the BR 18 prototype, but i have no proper passenger wagons to put on...
11:53:41  <fjb> Even if you consider the market share of FreeBSD.
11:54:09  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: Use the old stock. Looks kind of funny.
11:56:17  <CommanderZ> he should be doing an iphone port if he wants player base
11:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> custom station names are way too short...
11:58:37  <peter1138> Ahh... excellent... a colleague has brought some beers in :D
11:59:08  <Rubidium> did he turn on your home computer when he was fetching them?
11:59:25  <peter1138> No :(
11:59:56  <peter1138> Should I add extra tiles for Eddi|zuHause's junctions?
12:00:22  <peter1138> And maybe have them optional...
12:02:20  <Eddi|zuHause> Trams need the ability to turn around in tram stops... :/
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12:05:41  <Celestar> morning
12:07:15  <Celestar> peter1138: you there?
12:07:31  <fjb> And the commuter airport comes way too late with the airport noise option enabled.
12:07:54  <fjb> peter1138 is drinking beer. So don't expect too much.
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12:08:50  <Celestar> he's what? :P
12:09:15  <Forked> drunk
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12:12:53  <ln> 14:58 <@peter1138> Ahh... excellent... a colleague has brought some beers in :D
12:12:56  <peter1138> Hah
12:13:09  <peter1138> Unfortunately it's alcohol free...
12:13:17  <peter1138> Tastes alright though.
12:13:41  <Celestar> heh :P
12:13:54  <CommanderZ> dammit, my colleagues always bring in only some redbulls
12:13:57  <CommanderZ> and I hate them
12:14:06  <Celestar> peter1138: you got anything to pull for me or some work on the totalcargoview? Otherwise I'll start working on i
12:14:09  <Celestar> t
12:14:45  <peter1138> No.
12:15:02  <peter1138> The start of the work I did is... at home...
12:15:14  <Celestar> how much is it?
12:15:32  <peter1138> Moving the station cargo list stuff into a new class in a new file.
12:16:57  <Celestar> I see
12:27:56  <Celestar> vscroll_cap is in pixels ?
12:28:05  <Celestar> or in lines? or what unit?
12:28:30  <glx> whatever you want
12:28:38  <Eddi|zuHause> reducing transfer credit by 30% really helped with the negative income situation...
12:28:48  <glx> it's in relation with scrollbar max value
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12:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> it balances out the income much better between the vehicles
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12:31:14  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: balancing will be addressed later (=
12:31:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i just added a *70/100 to the transfer credit line :)
12:32:13  <Eddi|zuHause> which basically means 30% of that will get accounted to the last vehicle in the transfer chain in the end
12:33:52  <peter1138> Ah, I just found SketchUp's isometric view :)
12:34:02  <peter1138> Not exactly the same as TTD, but good enough.
12:34:10  <Celestar> hm?
12:34:18  <peter1138> I'm drawing diagrams of extra tiles for Eddi|zuHause's junctions.
12:36:05  <Celestar> heh
12:36:16  <Celestar> make smooth curves please peter1138
12:36:46  <Celestar> oh and a cure for cancer would be cool too
12:36:57  <Celestar> peter1138: how's this:
12:37:00  <peter1138> Smooth curves... Argh! :p
12:37:31  <glx> Celestar: nice
12:37:33  <peter1138> Don't forget other vehicle types...
12:37:46  <glx> now do the same for other types yes ;)
12:38:00  <glx> (have fun with GUI)
12:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i thought about how to do "smooth curves", basically you'd need to split each trackbit in the middle, and then change the trackbit-half-graphics depending on the adjacent tile
12:39:02  <Celestar> peter1138: it's not finished yet, I've managed to f*ck up scrolling :P
12:40:39  <peter1138> With 'rail continuation info' you could do it with varactions ;)
12:41:19  <Celestar> peter1138: we also have factually wrong info in the detailed cargo tab
12:41:38  <glx> newgrfs can have more than 8 sprites
12:41:39  <peter1138> We do?
12:41:54  <peter1138> glx, context?
12:42:11  <glx> for smooth curves you need more steps
12:43:04  <Celestar> glx: you need totally new vehicle set
12:43:05  <Celestar> s
12:43:14  <Celestar> oh yes, and a totally new concept of drawing vehicle
12:43:15  <Celestar> s
12:43:17  <Celestar> ..
12:43:26  <Celestar> my  key is not working o well
12:43:31  <Celestar> ..
12:43:42  * Celestar getsss a vacuum cleaner
12:44:16  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:45:00  <Celestar> heya Sacro
12:45:20  <Sacro> heya Celestar
12:50:11  <peter1138> Do we want to implement curved track at this point?
12:50:31  <peter1138> It never worked well with Simutrans :op
12:50:34  <peter1138> -p
12:50:34  <Celestar> peter1138: want: yes. are able to: no :P
12:51:03  <peter1138> Why not?
12:52:11  <Celestar> peter1138: because we basically need to change everything. We'd have to draw a new vehicle set, We'd have to basically drop newgrf support ...
12:52:27  <Sacro> so I found a bug last night...
12:52:38  <Celestar> peter1138: we'd need to either make an online rendering of vehicle or store at least 32 different angles for each vehicle
12:52:53  <Sacro> implement .x loading?
12:53:04  <Celestar> ?
12:53:10  <Sacro> alllow model files
12:53:15  <Sacro> rather than just sprites
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12:58:06  <fjb> Does it really look that bad if just the track looks curved and the vehicles still have only the current eight views?
12:58:08  <SpComb> Celestar: I started a stub:
12:58:50  <Sacro> Celestar: is it working now?
12:58:51  <Celestar> SpComb: awesome. I just noticed that I lack wiki access
12:58:54  <Celestar> SpComb:
12:58:59  <Celestar> Sacro: is *what* working now?
12:59:05  <Sacro> cargo packets
12:59:13  <peter1138> fjb,
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12:59:31  <Sacro> peter1138: *throws up*
12:59:39  <Celestar> Sacro: can you link from the main development page to that page in the subprojects item?
12:59:43  <Celestar> Sacro: of course, why not=
12:59:45  <Rubidium> Celestar: lack wiki access?
12:59:46  <SpComb> Celestar: yup, I just noticed that in the scrollback
12:59:52  <Celestar> Rubidium: apparently
12:59:56  <Sacro> Celestar: errr...
13:00:00  <Forked> planetmaker: I feel that tut dude didn't really respond at all to the answer you gave him
13:00:07  <SpComb> it's kind of similar to what the station view shows
13:00:10  <Sacro> Login error:
13:00:10  <Sacro> There is no user by the name "Sacro". Check your spelling, or create a new account.
13:00:13  <Rubidium> everyone can edit the wiki (except a few pages)
13:00:18  <Celestar> SpComb: the question is still what to display in the Detailed Cargo View (the one per wagon). Splitting destinations by wagon makes little sense
13:00:21  <SpComb> sometimes you want to know where the passengers on a train are from, sometimes you want to know where they're going to, etc :)
13:00:21  <Celestar> Rubidium: I see (=
13:00:39  <SpComb> Celestar: can induvidual wagons contain different cargo packets?
13:00:44  <fjb> peter1138: Thank you. That looks really bad, but it clearly shows curves where diagonal track should be.
13:00:46  <Celestar> SpComb: yes.
13:00:54  <Celestar> SpComb: v->cargo_cap different packets
13:01:03  <SpComb> indeed, then the "<count> <cargo> from <blaa>" kind of fails
13:01:19  <Celestar> peter1138: this is about the second most ugly thing I have seen in a long time :P
13:01:24  <peter1138> Celestar, don't show destinations for the 'detailed' cargo view.
13:01:27  <SpComb> hmm, I should probably take a look through the code some time as well, perhaps I'll gain a better understanding of how it works as well then
13:01:35  <Celestar> peter1138: curved tracks *must* span multiple tiles
13:01:42  <Sacro> Celestar: description?
13:01:42  <Celestar> peter1138: I'm not. the question is whether to show origin.
13:01:47  <Celestar> Sacro: description of what?
13:01:59  <Sacro> what i'm adding on the subprojects area
13:02:23  <Sacro> also, i'll remove the old [[Cargo Packets]]
13:02:24  <peter1138> Incidentally that doesn't let you have two vertical or two horizontal pieces on a tile, either.
13:02:30  <Celestar> oh ... "Cargo with specific destinations"
13:02:40  <SpComb> <-- this?
13:02:55  <SpComb> <-- and/or this?
13:02:58  <Sacro> Celestar: done
13:03:19  <Sacro> i might have to get hg and test it
13:03:28  <SpComb> both of those pages above mention cargo packets/destinations as well
13:03:43  <Celestar> you can set it to 85% complete :P
13:04:05  * Sacro goes for a shit shower and shave
13:04:09  <SpComb> well, there have been other paxdest branches in the past
13:04:15  <SpComb> some mention of those somewhere?
13:04:30  <Celestar> wth is a shitshower?
13:04:43  <Celestar> .. maybe I don't wanna know
13:05:06  <peter1138> :o
13:05:29  <SpComb> or perhaps there's just a missing comma there
13:05:33  <ln> sounds like something Wikipedia is likely to have an article about.
13:05:46  <SpComb> Celestar: have you modified the ./configure script to check for boost?
13:05:52  <Celestar> SpComb: not yet.
13:05:58  <SpComb> probably should at some point
13:06:17  <Celestar> SpComb: I know, but I have NFI about configure scripts. We have more capable people than me here to do that
13:06:32  <Celestar> I just dunno yet whom to poke
13:06:33  <SpComb> hehe, I just copy-pasted the libpng stuff when I added libcurl to that :)
13:06:42  <SpComb> but I guess boost is a bit more complicated
13:07:58  <Celestar> I'm just including one file
13:08:06  <Celestar> so it shouldn't be
13:08:42  <planetmaker> [15:00]	<Forked> planetmaker: I feel that tut dude didn't really respond at all to the answer you gave him <-- I got the same feeling. His problem, if he still fails to see.
13:09:16  <Belugas> hello peoples
13:09:19  <Belugas> -s
13:09:27  <Belugas> where is my damn coffee???
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13:11:07  <Celestar> Belugas: don't have any :P
13:11:08  <planetmaker> I can offer you tea, Belugas :)
13:11:16  <Celestar> MEH. gotta set the scrollbar somehow :P
13:11:22  <Sacro> Celestar: missed the comma, but if you really wanna know, google tubgirl (nsfw)
13:11:34  <Forked> I do not want to know
13:11:57  * Celestar wonders whether to continue the vehicle view or edit the wiki page
13:13:15  *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@] has joined #openttd
13:18:34  <SpComb> Celestar: I just edited it a bit
13:18:53  <SpComb> the next sections need screenshots from the game
13:22:57  <Celestar> SpComb: I can provide you with those if you wish
13:24:09  <Celestar> just tell me what you need
13:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> my  key is not working o well <- i know that erfectly well from my  key :
13:28:22  <Celestar> there were leftovers of lunch below the key
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13:31:49  <Celestar> SpComb: can you just add the section you want in? I can add some stuff then
13:33:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14106 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix(r14104): A string too much been commited
13:33:26  <SpComb> ok, I'll add some barebones outlines
13:34:28  <Eddi|zuHause> <SpComb> Celestar: have you modified the ./configure script to check for boost? <- should be unnecessary when a specially crafted boost version is added into svn
13:34:53  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: point taken
13:36:11  <SpComb> ugh, so I'll have a million copies of the boost library on my machine?
13:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> no, only of the boost graphics library
13:36:35  <SpComb> one standard libboost, and then one per copy of OpenTTD that I have?
13:36:41  <Celestar> SpComb: only tinyish parts of the boost library
13:36:50  <Eddi|zuHause> s/ics//
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13:37:07  <SpComb> installing debian's libboost-graph-dev package installs over 200MB of stuff...
13:37:55  <Celestar> vici@rivendell:[/home/vici/openttd-cargodest]> wc -l /usr/include/boost/graph/* | grep total
13:38:01  <Celestar> 25309 total
13:38:04  <Rubidium> SpComb: you get the free and complementary whole libboost world
13:40:27  <peter1138> Hmm, 16 sprites
13:43:12  <Belugas> time to work@work
13:44:32  <Celestar> peter1138: this is kinda ugly with the total cargo view
13:44:35  <Celestar> I mean code wise
13:44:54  <peter1138> I bet :)
13:45:05  <Celestar>
13:45:09  <Celestar> look at this :S
13:46:06  <Celestar> and I still dunno about the detailed cargo view :P
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13:46:57  <Bean> @seen yorick
13:46:57  <DorpsGek> Bean: yorick was last seen in #openttd 17 hours, 39 minutes, and 4 seconds ago: <Yorick> xdiff+ydiff for diagonal comparisons
13:49:29  <Celestar> peter1138: now is this ugly or is this ugly?
13:49:36  <peter1138> Didn't look, sorry.
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13:49:59  <Celestar> lucky you :P
13:51:38  <ln>
13:53:16  <Celestar> ln: and this thing needs to be 3MB? :P
13:53:47  <SpComb> Celestar: I added a bunch of skeleton sections that I think could do with some explenation
13:53:51  <Celestar> ok
13:53:53  <Celestar> looking
13:54:51  <Celestar> SpComb: I'll dump some ideas and screenies into the sections in the next few hours and maybe add an "internals" section
13:55:12  <Celestar> erm peter1138
13:55:32  <Celestar> SpComb: if I find the time while working
13:55:45  <peter1138> Erm what?
13:55:47  <SpComb> yeah, documentation's annoying to write :)
13:56:11  <CommanderZ> are you making dest for cargo too or for pax only?
13:56:13  <Celestar> peter1138: I've drawn that icon for the minimap. Do we want to use it?
13:56:22  <Celestar> CommanderZ: it's configurable
13:56:50  <CommanderZ> sounds good
13:56:54  <Celestar> pax are cargo as well, you know
13:57:05  <Celestar> only difference is that they're self-loading :P
13:57:14  <ln> Celestar: dunno, it's not my photo nor homepage.
13:57:20  <CommanderZ> i know, just the older patch was pax and mail only, wasn't it?
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13:58:22  <Celestar> CommanderZ: possible.
13:58:31  <Celestar> We've got a clean(er) implementation now
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14:00:44  <Celestar> did I scare him ?
14:01:11  <Celestar> :o
14:01:14  <Celestar> plane crash in Madrid
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14:02:50  <ln> an MD-80 or?
14:03:18  <Celestar> apparently
14:03:20  <Celestar> runway overshhot
14:03:22  <Celestar> overshoot*
14:03:50  <Celestar> shortest runway is 3500m
14:03:53  <Celestar> weird
14:03:58  <Belugas> p
14:05:20  <Belugas> wonder it was not working :) wrong window caught the "p"
14:05:37  <Celestar> weather at time of crash: METAR LEMD 201300Z 14004KT CAVOK 29/03 Q1018 NOSIG
14:05:42  <Celestar> very weird
14:06:29  <Belugas> i agree... usually, weather is more like... sunny, light breeze...
14:07:14  <Celestar> wth is wrong with :S
14:07:28  <Celestar> "posted Tue Aug 19 2008 21:49:06 your local time (15 minutes 54 secs ago)"
14:07:32  * Celestar blinks
14:07:59  <Celestar> number of casulties in media ranges from 0 to 75
14:08:08  <Celestar> great measuring accuracy
14:10:09  *** mortal [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
14:10:17  * Celestar goes back to cargodest
14:10:17  *** Zahl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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14:16:09  <Celestar> :o
14:16:16  <Celestar> vim has a ":make" as well
14:17:03  <peter1138>
14:17:31  <peter1138> Re:
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14:19:10  <Mortal> #openttd: your source for random awesome diffs
14:19:40  <Celestar> Mortal: ?
14:20:01  <Mortal> ln linked some grammer and spellingcorrection diffs yesterday
14:20:20  <Celestar> yeah
14:20:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas committed some stuff about that...
14:21:34  <Celestar> he did
14:21:49  <Belugas> so did I
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14:22:17  <Eddi|zuHause> gnaah... station needs more tracks, but there's an industry in the way :(
14:22:39  <glx> walk to the other side of the industry
14:22:45  <ln> Mortal: "grammer"......
14:22:46  <Eddi|zuHause> and a lake...
14:22:56  <fjb> Hire some terrorists to blast the industry.
14:23:11  <Celestar> heh
14:23:11  <glx> fill the lake
14:23:14  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: what server are you on?
14:23:15  <Belugas> or implement underground stations ^_^
14:23:15  <Mortal> ln, I'm just tickling your spelling senses
14:23:23  <Mortal> or should I say... Im
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14:23:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not on any server
14:23:40  <Celestar> pity
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14:24:03  <Belugas> Mortal, i'm not.  In fact, it would be nice if more corrections like these were made available
14:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't play online... i can't cope to the lack of pause button :p
14:24:16  <Mortal> Belugas, you're not what?
14:24:20  <Celestar> managing a 1k x 1k map with paxdest and maildest alone is virtually impossible
14:24:40  <glx> even on smaller map
14:24:52  <Belugas> mmmh... nevermind Mortal, i can't clearly read IRC right now...
14:24:57  <Belugas> got confused
14:25:03  <Mortal> Belugas, I like such corrections too
14:25:14  <Mortal> (the only problem is with annotate... but meh)
14:25:33  <fjb> Belugas: An underground station beneath the lake could turn out as a bad idea.
14:26:12  <Belugas> fjb, call it underwater then :)
14:26:19  <fjb> :-)
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14:26:28  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
14:26:38  <Belugas> Mortal, as long as it gives a better overall quality to the project, why not?
14:26:38  <Mortal> whee, tf2 theme song samples
14:26:44  <Mortal> wait wrong channel, never mind
14:27:21  <Mortal> Belugas, like I said, I like it too
14:27:45  <Belugas> good :)
14:28:54  <Eddi|zuHause> cargo dests are genious, but i really need a shitload of platforms on the transfer stations...
14:29:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean, like 2 per transferred cargo type
14:31:10  <fjb> Why that many?
14:37:28  <planetmaker> drop+pickup?
14:40:52  <Celestar> what... omnicppcomplete for vim is AWESOME
14:41:57  <Celestar> it doesn't only complete classes, member, functions and stuff but also shows the declaration
14:42:34  <glx> like intellisense
14:42:36  <Belugas> have you ever tried Delphi?  hehe
14:43:23  <Celestar> yes
14:43:27  <Celestar> I hated it
14:43:56  <Fuco> every decent IDE compete classes and show declarations :P
14:45:56  * Belugas loves Delphi for over...
14:46:03  <Belugas> 13 years i guess
14:46:06  <Celestar> Fuco: not sure vim qualifies and an IDE
14:46:19  <Celestar> Fuco: I wish there was ONE IDE with a decent editor
14:46:24  <Celestar> just a single one
14:46:43  * Belugas knows one :)
14:46:44  <glx> visual studio is nice
14:46:51  <Belugas> make it two :D
14:46:56  <Celestar> glx: the editor of it sucks
14:47:01  <Celestar> at least the 2003 and 2005 versions
14:47:17  <Celestar> glx: plus it's not available for real OSes :P
14:47:40  <Belugas> I suck , you suck, she sucks, he sucks, it sucks ...
14:47:55  <Celestar> and developing in windows is giving me the creeps. That's worse the writing a dissertation in Word
14:48:11  * Belugas thinks Celestar has some "parti-pris"
14:48:14  <Fuco> 2008 is cool
14:48:20  <Celestar> Belugas: I have some what?
14:48:46  <Belugas> mind already made up, preconceived ideas, that soert of things
14:49:18  <SpComb> irrational fear
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14:50:03  <SpComb> you've probably had some traumatic experience with VS in the past, maybe you've already forgotten what it was, but the trauma remains
14:50:20  <SpComb> a bit like Singaporekid
14:51:03  <Belugas> naaa.. i think i know what Celestar feels.  For a very long time, i hated anything that was C/C++
14:51:26  <Belugas> I found the language cryptic, hard to follow,
14:51:45  <Belugas> too hard to be workable
14:52:01  <Belugas> so i ran away from it and always bashed over it
14:52:25  <Belugas> amin reason:  I had been in a totally different language
14:52:28  <SpComb> I've seen enough good C code that I find using it enjoyable
14:53:10  <Belugas> i think it's the same with Celestar.  He's confortable with his OS and thus it makes him unconfortable to do anything on Windows
14:53:22  <SpComb> in other words, it is possible to write good C code that works well and is beautiful in it's own right
14:53:30  <Belugas> i guess so
14:53:36  <Celestar> Belugas: I don't have anything specific against C or C++
14:53:39  <Belugas> if you follow a CODE-STYLE!!!
14:53:42  <glx> SpComb: the opposite is true
14:53:51  <SpComb> things like nicely-documented function-pointer structs <3
14:53:53  <Belugas> Celestar, i never said you didn;t
14:54:07  <Celestar> Belugas: I consider Closed-Source software as a considerable threat, yes.
14:54:18  <Celestar> Belugas: worse the Ossama and GWB taken together tbh
14:54:26  <Belugas> i was makng a comparaison between my hatred of C and your hatred of Win :)
14:54:38  <Celestar> "hatred" is the wrong word ;)
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14:55:05  <Belugas> well... "unease"?
14:55:11  <Celestar> Was windows open-sourced (not necessarily free), I might change my mind
14:55:17  <SpComb> glx: sure, it's also easy to write bad C code that does what it's supposed to do, but is hard to read and extend/modify
14:55:35  <SpComb> (some of the OpenTTD code... )
14:55:43  <Fuco> i like windows.. easy to manage, easy to install, easy to add things like blootooth cellphone and 10 years old adsl modem..
14:55:53  <Celestar> but if someone tries to hide something from me, this 'something' is rarely good.
14:56:19  <Celestar> Fuco: I find most hardware installation more difficult on windows than on linux, provided there are drivers for windows
14:56:27  <Celestar> Fuco: however, hardware support still lacks
14:56:34  <SpComb> Fuco: haha... I'm going to claim that something like Ubuntu is far easier to install than windows, and easier to manage...
14:56:41  <ln> a finnish news site is reporting: "one of the plane's left-side engines caught fire before take-off".........
14:56:51  <Celestar> Fuco: I find windows horribly difficult to manage.
14:57:15  <Fuco> hm
14:57:17  <SpComb> for instance, I don't know of any windows equivalent to linux LiveCD:s
14:57:27  <Fuco> why you need livecd
14:57:27  <Belugas> Celestar, i find the same when looking at my ubuntu, it's just a matter of habits :)
14:57:40  <Fuco> what's the point of slow OS loaded from CD
14:57:45  <Fuco> for me as a "basic user"
14:57:48  <SpComb> Fuco: fixing broken installs (e.g. your had drive partitions are borked)
14:58:12  <SpComb> and e.g. ubuntu's installer is just a livecd with an "install ubuntu to your hard drive" icon on the desktop
14:58:13  <Fuco> i can do that with any other software
14:58:17  <Celestar> CARGODEST!
14:58:19  <SpComb> which is far more than window's installer has to offer
14:58:24  * Celestar tries to change the topic
14:58:29  <SpComb> but myes, I really don't want to continue this discussion
14:58:52  <Fuco> i have ubuntu on notebook
14:59:10  <Fuco> tho i don't use it
14:59:44  <ln> 148 dead, says some source.
14:59:45  <SpComb> then neither of us are in a position to speak absolute truths about both linux/ubuntu and windows
14:59:50  <Fuco> ok, you're right than 'modern' 'user friendly' linux is easy to install
14:59:55  <Celestar> 148?
15:00:02  <ln> yes.
15:00:04  <SpComb> as I don't know everything about windows, and you probably don't know everything about linux
15:00:36  <Fuco> but still its a pain in the ass to run some hardware on linux
15:00:40  <Celestar> SpComb: I admin linux and windows PCs
15:00:45  <Fuco> when in win i just pres "next" a few times
15:00:47  <Celestar> SpComb: about 50 each
15:01:04  <Celestar> SpComb: I spent 75% of the time with the Windows PCs. It's either the OS, or the users ... dunno
15:01:13  <Celestar> spend*
15:01:24  <SpComb> I've never admined a windows PC, I'm not even aware of what Microsoft's server software does, nor what third party admin tools there are
15:01:43  <Fuco> well, i have the same install of windows for over 2 years
15:01:46  <Fuco> ando no problem
15:01:47  <SpComb> I only use it to play games
15:02:00  <Celestar> I've *tried* setting up a Windows 2003 server for them. I've ditched that attempt and installed SLES10 instead.
15:02:08  <glx> Celestar: windows users can do strange things to the OS
15:02:19  <Celestar> glx: windows *LETS* the users do strange things
15:02:31  <Celestar> glx: well not anymore, since the users don't have admin privs
15:02:35  <Celestar> and won't get them
15:02:40  <Celestar> no matter what
15:02:43  <glx> for vista yes
15:02:53  <Celestar> glx: ok now it's getting nasty
15:03:04  <glx> but it's quite impossible to use XP without admin rights
15:03:11  <glx> (for me)
15:03:15  <Celestar> glx: XP is a pretty decent workstation OS, if you work with non-admin privs. Vista is just *shudders*
15:03:40  * Celestar continues to shudder and goes back to his cargodest
15:04:33  <Celestar> *shrugs* I dunno what to code next
15:04:51  <SpComb> viewport visual routes?
15:05:42  <Fuco> imho, linux needs some support from some big company, like google or intel to be an real option for desktop computers
15:05:46  <Celestar> not sure I want that at the present time. I'll have to sync with peter first
15:05:59  <SpComb> Fuco: big company like red hat?
15:06:16  <Fuco> that's why their market share is 1%
15:06:16  <Fuco> ?
15:06:36  <Fuco> ask some ppl you know if they ever heard about red hat.. if i do that, 95% tell me NO
15:06:47  <SpComb> canonical (Ubuntu) also offers commercial support
15:06:49  <Fuco> ask them about google
15:06:51  <Fuco> or microsoft
15:06:59  <Fuco> and 99% say YES
15:07:18  <Celestar> and that's what makes them dangerous
15:07:21  <Celestar> to each of you
15:07:27  *** xahodo [] has joined #openttd
15:07:31  <xahodo> Hello
15:07:33  <Celestar> heya
15:07:54  <SpComb> Fuco: red hat isn't really consumer-oriented, mostly business-oriented
15:07:59  <Eddi|zuHause> * Celestar tries to change the topic <- i am fairly convinced that you failed :p
15:08:05  <SpComb> Fuco: even my mom knows my Ubuntu is
15:08:10  <xahodo> I've got a probable desync... any way I can pinpoint it?
15:08:15  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I'm fairly convinced that you are correct
15:08:21  <Celestar> xahodo: how much time do you have?
15:08:22  <SpComb> and my sister uses Ubuntu on her laptop, and is thinking about getting an eeePC
15:08:37  <SpComb> *knows what
15:08:48  <xahodo> an hour at most.
15:08:50  <Fuco> your mum knows it probably because you care
15:08:53  <Fuco> and you told her
15:08:57  <Fuco> but most of mums dont :)
15:09:00  <xahodo> I'm currently at a friend's place.
15:09:07  <SpComb> *shrug*
15:09:16  <Celestar> xahodo: is it reproducible?
15:09:27  <SpComb> you'd be surprised as to how well-known ubuntu is
15:09:47  <xahodo> I haven't yet pinpointed it.
15:10:03  <SpComb> I don't have any hard figures, but just my personal experience, which might be a bit biased
15:10:27  <Celestar> SpComb: I'm not worried. Windows is losing market-share by the minute
15:10:30  <Fuco> my school is actually 'sponsored' by red hat, so everyone there knows ubuntu :D
15:11:38  <Celestar> SpComb: we should talk to peter1138 about the main-viewport routing network
15:11:49  <Fuco> google is taking dominant place in 'computer' buisniss over microsoft
15:12:00  <Celestar> which is about equally bad
15:12:03  <Fuco> business*
15:12:07  <Celestar> domination is never a good thing
15:12:22  <Fuco> for most people it is
15:12:27  <Celestar> no. it's not
15:12:31  <Celestar> it's dangerous
15:12:55  <Celestar> there's _never_ _anything_ good about domination
15:12:58  <Fuco> hm.. what's dangerous about windows
15:13:26  <Celestar> Fuco: is this a rethorical question?
15:13:37  <Fuco> no
15:13:52  <Fuco> i don't see anything bad with windows
15:14:33  <Celestar> That's what most people said about Hitler in 1933..
15:15:24  <Fuco> comparing hitler and windows
15:15:29  <Fuco> is really weird
15:16:11  <Celestar> Fuco: I don't consider it weird.
15:16:25  <Fuco> how can windows kill ppl
15:16:35  <Fuco> and dominate half of the europe
15:16:35  <Celestar> there are things worse than death, Fuco
15:16:41  <Fuco> like?
15:16:42  <peter1138> Bjarni's code.
15:16:46  *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
15:16:48  <Fuco> other example :D?
15:17:00  <Celestar> damn peter1138, I just snorted out my coke over half the room!
15:17:07  <Celestar> Fuco: slavery.
15:17:11  <Celestar> Fuco: police states
15:17:15  <Celestar> Fuco: domination
15:17:37  <peter1138> pom te pom
15:17:43  <Fuco> again
15:17:48  <Fuco> how can windows enslave ppl
15:17:58  <Celestar> Fuco: three letters: DRM
15:18:04  <Celestar> and that's only the tip of the iceberg
15:18:11  <Fuco> drm?
15:18:19  <Celestar> O_o
15:18:38  <Fuco> what is that
15:18:46  <Celestar> it's a nice a nice step towards 1984, that is
15:19:12  <Fuco> what does that mean? i mean the D.M.R.?
15:19:20  <Celestar> only today's technology makes 1984 look quaint
15:19:43  <Celestar>
15:20:02  <ben_goodger_> Celestar: you are comparing DRM to nazism and nineteen eighty-four (the book's title is _not_ 1984)?
15:20:29  <Celestar> ben_goodger_: no DRM in itself, but the road it is paving.
15:20:43  <ben_goodger_> riiiight.
15:20:50  <Celestar> ben_goodger_: (I'm too lazy to type it out all the time)
15:21:17  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14107 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Codechange: marking reserved tile dirty twice (and even when patch option is off) is not needed
15:21:27  <Celestar> ben_goodger_: complete surveillance of your life
15:21:51  <ben_goodger_> well, microsoft can't actually do that when I'm not running their software
15:22:05  <ben_goodger_> the government of the united kingdom, however, can
15:22:29  <Celestar> ben_goodger_: it's not really the the govs of these days are any better
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15:23:14  <Celestar> ben_goodger_: they're driven by fear. But the combo of MS + fear-oriented-goverments is simply deadly
15:23:21  <glx> they usually know nothing about how internet works
15:23:28  <Celestar> at least deadly for any kind of liberty we know
15:23:55  <Fuco> Celestar, i think you are little bit paranoic. MS+goverments controling you is plain nonsense
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15:24:33  <Celestar> Fuco: and I think you are a little naive
15:24:37  <Fuco> and even if they scan my network traffic, why not
15:24:42  <Fuco> what's the point
15:25:03  <Celestar> Fuco: what's the point of freedom at all? Let's all move to a perfectly secure police state. right.
15:25:18  <Fuco> how it affect your freedom
15:25:48  <Celestar> how does *what* affect my freedom?
15:25:55  <Celestar> scanning all my network traffic?
15:25:57  <Fuco> yes
15:26:04  <Celestar> how about someone recording all your phone calls?
15:26:13  <Fuco> i have no problem with that
15:26:14  <Celestar> reading all your letters?
15:26:27  <Fuco> what they can possibly do with my phone calls
15:26:34  <Fuco> except tell Monica i dont really love her
15:26:43  <Fuco> (just an example)
15:26:43  <Celestar> no one has _ever_ the right to check my letters, read my phone calls, or check my network traffic.,
15:27:08  * orudge reads Celestar's IRC traffic to #openttd
15:27:17  <Celestar> orudge: because _I_ chose to present it
15:27:33  <orudge> quite
15:27:34  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: belugas * r14108 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix(r14104): Give a more consistent naming of the new gui file
15:27:49  <orudge> anyway, I'm also not a fan of the's rather unrealistic and rather intrusive plans
15:27:59  <Celestar> orudge: welcome to the club
15:28:02  <ben_goodger_> quite
15:28:05  <Celestar> we've to similar ideas in Germany
15:28:12  *** lobster [~michielbi@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:28:16  <Celestar> thanks to the idiot called SchÀuble.
15:28:27  <glx> France is not better
15:28:28  <Celestar> who apparently knows the internet in the form of printouts :S
15:28:33  <Celestar> glx: unfortunately
15:28:51  <Celestar> Fuco: no one has the right to check my bank accounts either
15:28:54  <ben_goodger_> Celestar: the government of Germany is paralysed by the fear of pseudomuslim rioting, and therefore instituting positive-discrimination policies?
15:29:02  <Rubidium> lets follow the US where it's legal to take someone's personal belongings and keep them for an undetermined amount of time
15:29:31  <Celestar> ben_goodger_: yes, but we're moving at a slower pace than the UK
15:29:38  <ben_goodger_> Rubidium: in the UK, someone can be taken _themselves_ and kept for up to 42 days without a trial or a phone call
15:30:05  <Rubidium> in the US there's no limit on that
15:30:26  <Rubidium> they just have to say: you're a terrorist
15:30:30  <Rubidium> and you're gone forever
15:31:00  <Fuco> Well, i'm not telling that everyone should have rights to see your accounts/letters etc..
15:31:16  <Fuco> not even goverment
15:31:18  <Fuco> but if they do
15:31:25  <Fuco> i don't see the problem
15:31:36  <Rubidium> Fuco: I'm not talking about paperwork
15:31:37  <Celestar> Fuco: what if they take my neighbour and kill him? I don't like him anyway ...
15:31:38  <Fuco> i've never used phone to something _so_ important
15:31:45  <Rubidium> I'm talking about your wallet, mobile, laptop and stuff
15:31:56  <Fuco> Rubidium: i was reffering to something else now
15:32:11  <Fuco> Celestar: you're off topic with killing
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15:32:42  <Celestar> Fuco: why. "Life" is a human right just as "Self-determination of information" is
15:33:06  <Celestar> Fuco: but ok. don't kill him. Take him and inprison him for a decade.
15:33:15  <xahodo> ok, can't pinpoint the desync :( maybe it'll come up another time.
15:33:20  <Fuco> hm, this whole discusion is gone off topic
15:33:28  <Celestar> has it?
15:33:28  <Fuco> we started about MS enslaving humanity
15:33:39  <Fuco> that's your view i think
15:33:50  <Fuco> with their evil windows and big monopol
15:34:03  <Fuco> working with goverments all over the world
15:34:09  <Fuco> to ensure the world domination
15:34:43  <Celestar> yes. this is exactly what is happening around us _at the moment_
15:35:02  <Fuco> aha
15:35:20  <Fuco> its probably because i live in a middle-east europe or im too ignorant to see that :)
15:35:30  <Fuco> but im not experiencing it
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15:35:56  <Celestar> Fuco: ah, just because you don't see something, it's not there?
15:36:04  <Rubidium> Fuco: why is Windows chosen for soo many things? Because it's better? No because the manager knows the name, which in effect enslave their workers to implement it
15:36:09  <Rubidium> same with many other buzzwords
15:36:13  <Rubidium> like xml and web2.0
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15:36:25  <Celestar> Fuco: and I live in Central-Europe as well.
15:36:43  <Fuco> germany and slovakia is a bit different
15:37:01  <Celestar> Fuco: half my family is from slovakia. Jews btw..
15:37:20  <Fuco> jews? hmm not much jews around
15:37:25  <Celestar> not anymore.
15:37:27  <Fuco> i know 1 guy
15:37:35  <Celestar> most of my family got killed
15:37:40  * Rubidium lives in the East in Central Europe too
15:38:04  <Fuco> well i'm sorry about that
15:38:07  <Belugas> XML MAP!!!
15:38:12  <Celestar> Fuco: how old are ye?
15:38:24  <Fuco> 19
15:39:02  <Celestar> Fuco: You have any idea how life was one generation ago?
15:39:48  <Fuco> you mean here at slovakia?
15:39:56  <Yorick> autoclean is made to remove the airport after deleting the aircraft, right?
15:40:03  <Yorick> and how does that work on oilrigs?
15:40:04  <Fuco> OIS list.
15:40:05  <Fuco> [17:37:57] -----------------------------------
15:40:10  <Fuco> ^ sorry ^
15:40:14  <Celestar> Fuco: yes. In Slovakia
15:40:42  <Fuco> well, only from what my parrents and family told me
15:40:57  <Celestar> and?
15:41:01  <Fuco> like 'real' life :P
15:41:03  <Celestar> great, wasn't it ..
15:41:13  <Fuco> no it wasn't great
15:41:22  <Fuco> however, you can't compare windows to socialism
15:41:22  <Celestar> uh huh. And we're moving the same direction
15:41:39  <Fuco> you still have a choice now
15:41:44  <Fuco> to work with OSX or linux
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15:41:54  <Celestar> NOW yes.
15:41:57  <Fuco> many ppl just pick windows because it's much more convient
15:42:04  <glx> but you have to pay for windows when you buy a new computer
15:42:07  <Celestar> but MS is working *VERY* hard to remove that choice.
15:42:17  <Celestar> DRM is one start of moving domination to a monopoly
15:42:21  <Celestar> so is Trusted Computing
15:42:52  * valhallasw gets into conflict with all linux window managers sooner or later :(
15:43:00  <valhallasw> somehow it doesn't work for me
15:43:24  <Celestar> valhallasw: which one is now your victim :P
15:43:32  <Fuco> you know microsoft was sued by united states?, If they make a monopol, there are still means to "fix" it
15:43:39  <valhallasw> windows is my current victim ;)
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15:43:53  <Celestar> Fuco: by the EU as well. and what did change? nothing.
15:44:05  <valhallasw> I can't get along with KDE and gnome.. xfce kinda works
15:44:18  <Fuco> ok, you mean that winapi specs are there just because their good will
15:44:33  <Celestar> and you think M$ will not use their influence in any kind of govermental decision about its future?
15:44:36  <Fuco> i hardly think so
15:44:39  <Celestar> valhallasw: tried KDE 4.1
15:44:52  <Celestar> Fuco: what do WINAPI specs have to do with it?
15:44:55  <valhallasw> nope. is it better than KDE3? :P
15:45:00  <Celestar> valhallasw: 4.1 is much better imho
15:45:09  <Fuco> i think they released it after the cause against US
15:45:15  <Fuco> with*
15:45:43  <Celestar> well yes, it was one tinyish step to stop monopoly, but by far not enough
15:45:49  <Rubidium> many people just "pick" windows because they don't have another choice
15:45:49  <Yorick> I found a bug...when planes are autocleared, the runway is not cleared
15:46:19  <Fuco> but its not entirely microsoft's fault
15:46:34  <Rubidium> Fuco: really?
15:46:38  <Fuco> i mean, 99% of hardware doesn't have drivers for linux for example
15:46:41  <glx> why a computer is more expensive without windows?
15:46:54  <bruce89> Fuco: not Linux's fault
15:46:55  <Rubidium> Fuco: that's Microsoft FUD spreading
15:46:59  <glx> Fuco: most of them don't need it
15:47:11  <Fuco> like some new pretty GFX
15:47:13  <peter1138> 99%? Haha
15:47:20  <Celestar> Fuco: 99%? more like 20%
15:47:22  <peter1138> 1%, more like it.
15:47:32  <peter1138> And webcams... heh...
15:47:33  <glx> nvidia provides drivers for linux
15:47:41  <Fuco> since when?
15:47:45  <bruce89> ages
15:47:48  <Rubidium> reminds me of my old computer
15:47:48  <Celestar> YEARS
15:47:51  <Celestar> so does ATi
15:47:54  <Yorick> ...
15:48:01  <Celestar> AMD now
15:48:04  <Fuco> hmm
15:48:07  <Rubidium> windows couldn't install on it OOTB, linux could (and that was 5 years ago)
15:48:14  <bruce89> AMD/ATi released the specification AFAIK
15:48:29  <hylje> linux tends to have /better/ hardware support than windows these days
15:48:32  <bruce89> to their cards that is
15:48:33  <Yorick> I found a bug...when planes are autocleared, the runway is not cleared
15:48:44  <Fuco> glx: computer is not more expensive without windows
15:48:49  <Celestar> bruce89: yes, except for the 700series, the cards are open hardware
15:48:50  <Rubidium> Yorick: in what way is it a bug, the runway's removed anyways too
15:49:00  <bruce89> Celestar: I se
15:49:27  <Celestar> bruce89: the 700 series (Radeon 4xxx) will be released next years I think, or something.
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15:49:38  <Yorick> Rubidium: please have some foresight about the future, it is a bug with airports without an owner
15:49:49  <peter1138> hylje, since Vista, yes.
15:50:00  <Celestar> Vista has hardware support? :P
15:50:00  <Rubidium> Yorick: there are SOO many things that don't work when you change a few lines
15:50:01  <peter1138> Vista dropped support for lots of things that previously were supported.
15:50:15  <Fuco> yes vista is evil :(
15:50:19  <frosch123> Celestar: Poke!
15:50:21  <glx> Yorick: airports always have an owner
15:50:24  <Yorick> Rubidium: but they get working when you change a few extra lines
15:50:38  <Celestar> frosch123: ouch (=
15:50:38  <Rubidium> Fuco: really, almost everyone getting a new computer takes Vista with it?
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15:51:06  <Fuco> but they can say they doesn't want it
15:51:28  <Fuco> or make a 'barebone' pc
15:51:49  <bruce89> allegedly, 33% have "downgraded" to XP
15:51:55  <Rubidium> yes, but then you usually (as in 75% of the time) have to pay extra
15:52:13  <glx> the only way is to build your computer yourself
15:52:29  <glx> and for most people it's not an option
15:52:39  <Celestar> glx: nope. Lenovo sells their laptops with SLED for example
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15:53:19  <Fuco> then im wondering, if windows is so /bad/ and linux so /good/ why it has 1% share
15:53:35  <glx> Celestar: yes but most don't do it
15:53:55  <Yorick> glx>	Yorick: airports always have an owner <-- oilrigs usually not owned
15:54:00  <Celestar> glx: correct.
15:54:02  <Rubidium> Fuco: because 99% of the people buy whatever they know
15:54:05  <SpComb> is OpenTTD's pathfinder smart enough to pick the right platform for through/terminus trains?
15:54:19  <SpComb> i.e. does it also conider the next order when choosing a platform?
15:54:20  <Fuco> just because Gates was first to see potential of PCs at home, id doesn't mean he is evil
15:54:23  <peter1138> SpComb, only with YAPP, apparently.
15:54:30  <Fuco> he just followed his 'dream'
15:54:36  <Fuco> and now he is successful
15:54:40  <Fuco> i can't blame him for that
15:54:44  <SpComb> peter1138: YAPP does?
15:54:57  <SpComb> so I don't need checkpoints for through/terminus platforms?
15:55:11  <Celestar> SpComb: why don't you make a testgame and try it (=
15:55:11  <Rubidium> they go to the shop and say: "I want an apple laptop of acer with windows and a quad core processor"
15:55:17  <SpComb> I am
15:55:25  <peter1138> That's what I just said.
15:55:30  <Fuco> Rubidium: and that's MS fault?
15:55:38  <Rubidium> and then get highly disappointed because they can't get it
15:55:52  <Rubidium> and then the company selling it sells the stuff that they make the most profit off
15:56:02  <Rubidium> which is selling windows
15:56:13  <Celestar> I've gotta go
15:56:16  <Rubidium> because they are almost guaranteed return customers with computer problems
15:56:27  <Celestar> peter1138: wanna continue my total cargo view thingy? (=
15:56:31  <Fuco> like with linux computer they wouldn't
15:56:32  <bruce89> you've cracked it
15:56:54  <bruce89> Fuco: depends on your experience
15:57:09  <glx> Fuco: and it's rarely an hardware problem
15:57:11  <Fuco> but we're talking about _common_ people
15:57:14  <bruce89> in general, you have to break Linuxes
15:57:20  <Celestar> peter1138: <= it's here
15:57:26  <bruce89> whereas Windows does it of its own volition
15:57:40  <SpComb> I've yet to figure out how to build an effective station that functions as both a through station and a terminus
15:57:54  <Fuco> bruce89: again, it depends on your experience
15:57:57  <Rubidium> just something funny about Windows: it boots faster and compiles OpenTTD in MSVC in VirtualBox running on Linux than on the raw hardware of my computer
15:58:02  <Fuco> i have the same windows install for 2.5 years now
15:58:08  <Celestar> me too.
15:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> right... E 16 and long distance coaches... now the game can actually begin ;)
15:58:31  <Celestar> It takes about 2 minutes from BIOS to finished desktop
15:58:35  <bruce89> Fuco: moderately experienced people are better off with Windows, yes
15:58:36  <Celestar> OpenSUSE needs 40 seconds
15:58:43  <peter1138> Celestar, might take a look. Will be concentrating on my other project for a bit though.
15:58:44  <Yorick> "<Rubidium> Yorick: in what way is it a bug, the runway's removed anyways too" <-- how about oilrigs?
15:58:52  <Celestar> peter1138: pity ;)
15:58:54  <peter1138> Also figuring out why some payment hasn't gone out.
15:59:02  <Celestar> peter1138: we want that trunkified at some point :P
15:59:31  <peter1138> Well yes.
15:59:42  <peter1138> Hopefully in its first incarnation ;)
15:59:49  <peter1138> (Unlike newstations, many moons ago)
16:02:20  <Celestar> hm?
16:02:24  <Celestar> what happens with newstations
16:02:39  <Celestar> or happened*
16:03:29  <Yorick> SmatZ: about r14107, the problem is the stations that change when needs the tile to be marked dirty even when the patch is off
16:04:13  <Celestar> @seen roujin
16:04:13  <DorpsGek> Celestar: roujin was last seen in #openttd 2 days, 17 hours, 38 minutes, and 45 seconds ago: <Roujin> is he thinking at all?
16:05:43  <Celestar> g2
16:05:44  <Celestar> g
16:05:45  *** Celestar [] has quit [Quit: leaving]
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16:06:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14109 /trunk/src/pbs.cpp: -Fix (r14107): marking reserved tile dirty is needed for waypoints and stations even when patch option is disabled
16:07:25  <Yorick> not for waypoints...
16:10:59  <Belugas> why not?
16:11:01  <SpComb> no, they are not capable of picking a terminus platform
16:11:16  <glx> Yorick: waypoints are like stations for newgrf
16:11:30  <Yorick> ok :)
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16:13:47  <fjb> One of my 727 just crashed. :(
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16:18:49  * SpComb resorted to making trains also reverse at stations
16:19:02  <SpComb> someone needs to figure out a nice way to build combined through/terminus stations in OpenTTD
16:19:26  <ccfreak2k> Use waypoints?
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16:20:15  <SpComb> cumbersome
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16:22:17  <frosch123> SpComb: remove the order for the through-trains and let them stop using a non non-stop order for the next station
16:22:31  *** divo [] has joined #openttd
16:22:32  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... pf.yapf.rail_station_penalty <- is that per station or per station tile?
16:23:18  <peter1138> SpComb, terminus platform selection works for me.
16:23:24  <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, tile, I would think.
16:24:02  <Eddi|zuHause> because it's set to 3000, that's a little much per tile...
16:25:15  <Eddi|zuHause> train wants to go through the reserved short platform instead of through the free longer platform...
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16:31:03  <SpComb> frosch123: ooh... right
16:31:57  <SpComb> frosch123: although will that stop terminating trains from using the through platforms?
16:32:40  <frosch123> you could make the through platforms slightly longer as yapp applies penalties when train and station length differs
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16:42:56  <dih> i am having an issue with openttd becoming a zombie process
16:43:08  <dih> but only if run through autopilot in screen
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16:44:25  *** divo [] has joined #openttd
16:44:30  <dih> any ideas?
16:45:33  <Farden> "use windows"
16:45:48  <Mortal> full screen is buggy?
16:46:02  <Belugas> cristal ball, cristal ball, tell me waht is the dih's problem...
16:46:05  <Belugas> go on...
16:46:07  <Belugas> TELL ME!!
16:47:33  <peter1138> He's dih. That's the problem.
16:47:52  <Farden> wow... powerfull!
16:48:01  * Farden bows in front of peter1138
16:48:25  <Forked> feed it brains and hope it goes away
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16:51:22  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14110 /trunk/src/ (effectvehicle.cpp vehicle.cpp): -Fix: desyncs due to bubbles in toyland
16:52:51  <Farden> there are still people playing toyland?
16:53:41  <CommanderZ> I will play it once the brickland is finished. It looks gorgeous
17:00:00  <subzero> Which setting in the cfg is used to make a server loop and start over once it reaches it's end year ? for dedicated servers
17:00:19  <subzero> reload_cfg ? seems like restart game year doesnt do the trick
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17:01:40  <glx> subzero: restart_game_year
17:01:46  <subzero> Hmmf
17:01:46  <subzero> :D
17:01:52  <glx> but it will create a new game
17:02:20  <subzero> Hmm, guess thats where it fails maybe
17:03:16  <subzero> I ran 3 servers earlier today, only 1 is running now
17:03:31  <subzero> maybe something is failing in screen, I cant shift pages after launching a server either
17:05:30  <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... to time this network correctly, i need a formula from km/h to tiles/day
17:06:22  <CommanderZ> from wiki...The game has many rules to make vehicles move fairly realistically. A vehicle travelling at 100 mph (160kph) will cross 5.6 tiles per day.
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17:08:05  <Wolf01> hello
17:12:57  <subzero> If any server techie should appear, let me know! :D
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17:22:03  <fjb> Tut is not the author of the OpenTTD FreeBSD port. :)
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17:28:56  <bruce89> @seen _Ben_
17:28:56  <DorpsGek> bruce89: _Ben_ was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 6 days, 14 hours, 34 minutes, and 56 seconds ago: <_Ben_> bye
17:31:22  <Sacro> yes?
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17:47:43  <Brianetta> Belugas: That thing Sacro mentioned to you?  Defintiely a bug.
17:48:11  <Sacro> Brianetta: it's running out :(
17:48:20  * Prof_Frink runs out
17:48:21  <Sacro> :'(
17:48:59  <Brianetta> It's just not a show stopper
17:49:07  <Belugas> definitively LOOKING like a bug...
17:49:13  <Belugas> not sure yet if it is one
17:49:30  <Brianetta> Belugas: Station spread was increased for that station, then decreased, when the station was walked to a nearby town
17:49:36  <Brianetta> That town's FPP is gone now
17:49:45  <Brianetta> but the other one, with the mystery suplpies, is new
17:49:58  <Brianetta> so it might have inherited something
17:50:11  <Belugas> could be that
17:50:53  <Brianetta> If you have the save, it was being supplied by Debourne East
17:51:04  <Belugas> no saves in here
17:51:07  <Belugas> at home only
17:51:15  <Belugas> and i was too tired to check stuff over
17:51:19  <Brianetta> which has a walked tile way off in the other direction (:
17:51:39  <Brianetta> I can provide historic saves for the game if you need to check it at various times
17:52:09  <Brianetta> And now, the plant in question has run out of supplies.
17:52:18  <Brianetta> Perhaps it's corrected itself...
17:52:52  <Belugas> maybe... hard to tell
17:53:00  <Brianetta> Sacro: The FPP onloy received supplies when Debourne's plant was fully stockpiled
17:53:03  <Belugas> yeah, history saves might be interestng
17:53:17  <Belugas> indeed, that is waht i've seen
17:53:36  <Brianetta> Surplus being teleported?
17:53:36  <Belugas> and that is what i've said to Sacro too
17:53:46  <Belugas> that's waht it looks like
17:53:51  <Brianetta> Could be a new industry cargo acceptance opt-out bug
17:54:13  <Belugas> that or a feature request been accepted
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18:06:02  <Brianetta> Damned waypoint desync bug struck again
18:06:10  <Brianetta> It was *my* waypoint this time
18:09:37  <Yorick> have not discovered it yet
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18:37:10  <Eddi|zuHause> i need a station on a bridge :(
18:37:26  <Eddi|zuHause> or a tram station in a tunnel :(
18:37:28  <Brianetta> Had to change compute
18:37:30  <Brianetta> r
18:45:26  <peter1138> Rrrrr!
18:45:44  <hylje> ARRRRR
18:45:52  <Ailure> so guys
18:46:01  <Ailure> how do I use the money in openTTD outside of the game
18:46:04  <Ailure> I could need a new car
18:46:11  <Ailure> :)
18:46:56  <|Jeroen|> retrace the steps u used to build your tansport empire and do it in the real world to
18:47:32  <Ailure> I would need a time machine in other words
18:47:54  <|Jeroen|> yes
18:47:58  <peter1138> Feh... always blaming it on the time machine...
18:48:08  <|Jeroen|> i bet i can find one on ebay
18:48:41  <Wolf01> no bank will lend him so many money for that project
18:49:00  <|Jeroen|> dunno if you send then your savegames they may
18:49:31  <Wolf01> I already tried to purchase a piece of Syberia to build an ALU with trains like the one made with OTTD
18:49:37  <hylje> transport infrastructure is overprized
18:50:15  <hylje> priced, even
18:50:16  <Ammler> why is cargo dest not a "official" branch ot openttd?
18:50:19  <Fuco> i dont think you can buy 400km of rails for 90 bucks
18:50:24  <Fuco> like in game
18:50:53  <Fuco> so "<|Jeroen|> dunno if you send then your savegames they may" < false :D
18:50:54  <hylje> Ammler: not stable enough
18:50:54  <glx> Ammler: why not?
18:51:10  <Ammler> not in
18:51:13  <glx> hg is good enough for this kind of stuff
18:51:46  <peter1138> Better is the word I'd use.
18:51:52  <glx> right
18:52:04  <glx> the only "problem" is all the merge
18:52:14  <peter1138> That happens with svn branches anyway.
18:52:46  <glx> was fun when I did some things for it
18:53:16  <Ammler> is there now a better way to create a svn patch?
18:53:34  <glx> better than what?
18:53:34  <Ammler> then diff -u <svn> <hg>
18:54:07  <glx> hg diff can do that I think (but I don't know what to pass to it)
18:54:29  <peter1138> hg diff -r <lasttrunkmerge>
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18:58:23  <Ammler> peter1138: that would output the changes since that merge
18:58:31  <Ammler> but cargo dest is much more...
18:59:04  <Belugas> yeah, it's an icon in openttd history
18:59:09  <Belugas> heeer...
18:59:12  <Belugas> hein?
18:59:45  <bruce89> that explains why didn't bother itself
19:00:18  <peter1138> Ammler, no, last revision with "svn rxxxx" in it
19:00:27  <peter1138> 06f295088a7d at the moment.
19:01:05  <peter1138> Err
19:01:09  <peter1138> I mean ccea23aec951 :o
19:01:16  <peter1138> Had the wrong one highlighted :)
19:01:57  <glx> the one before the merge
19:02:01  <Ammler> and what about the patches before that merge?
19:02:24  <glx> Ammler: there are 2 heads until the merge commit
19:05:12  <Ammler> glx: 2 heads like 2 branches?
19:05:33  <glx> like that yes
19:05:35  <Prof_Frink> zomghydra
19:05:35  <Ammler> so I need to tell hg also to diff that?
19:05:42  <peter1138> No.
19:05:54  <peter1138> "hg diff -r ccea23aec951" is all you need.
19:06:08  <glx> you just need it to diff current with the rev before merge
19:06:42  <Ammler> that sounds too easy :-)
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19:10:55  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14111 /trunk/src/strgen/strgen.cpp: -Fix (r2572): [strgen] Changing order of parameters {X:...} did not work for strings including some {StringY}.
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19:24:58  <Ammler> how to convert a "-p1" patch to "-p0"?
19:25:24  <frosch123> apply it and rediff?
19:25:29  <bruce89> why would you want to?
19:25:34  <Ammler> thought of that.. :-)
19:25:49  <Ammler> to make it compatible with BOTTD
19:25:53  <frosch123> you could also use sed though
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19:28:32  <ln> Ammler: edit the paths
19:29:42  <Ammler> ln, that is obvious, I was looking, if patch has option for that, but sed might help...
19:31:54  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14112 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt newgrf_gui.cpp): -Fix (r13715)[FS#2232]: Action B custom messages with parameteers were broken.
19:34:12  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14113 /trunk/src/lang/ (35 files): -Codechange: Language updates for r14112.
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19:53:56  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14114 /trunk/src/signs.cpp: -Fix [FS#2242]: Sign list was not properly updated on removal of signs.
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19:58:34  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:01:55  <Eddi|zuHause> the biasing of the destinations based on station size, was that ever implemented?
20:03:22  *** lobster_MB [] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep]
20:11:19  <Belugas> hein?
20:16:43  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
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20:17:50  <Eddi|zuHause> more people want to go to a station in the city, than to one in a village
20:18:11  <Eddi|zuHause> supposedly balancing out that more people come from that city station
20:18:22  <Eddi|zuHause> making the destinations more symmetric
20:18:56  <Eddi|zuHause> only it isn't really working... my local trains always leave the city full, and arrive at the city empty#
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20:44:36  <fjb> r14073noai has a bug in YAPP. I have one station where it forgets to clear the reserved tracks.
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20:45:10  <glx> fjb: it's fixed in trunk I think
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20:45:57  <fjb> Ok, then I have to wait till noai gets synchronized to trunk again.
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20:51:41  <fjb> Oh, one town has a McDonalds drive in for trams.
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20:55:19  <fjb> I need a ship set that knows abouit new cargos.
20:59:13  <glx> fjb: I'll do a sync tomorrow before the compile time
20:59:35  <fjb> That would be great.
21:00:25  <fjb> I can't play without YAPP anymore.
21:01:09  <glx> hmm but the only fix for YAPP I can see is r14103 ad it's not related to stations
21:01:48  <glx> so maybe it's a trunk bug, but you'll need to reproduce it in trunk
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21:04:49  <fjb> I don't know what causes the bug. It always happens at only one station.
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21:20:03  <Sacro> zerocool!
21:20:59  <Rubidium> Aston DB9?
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21:27:19  <Eddi|zuHause> <fjb> I need a ship set that knows abouit new cargos. <- i thought there was a newships enhancement like for the dbset?
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21:37:00  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14115 /trunk/ (Makefile.bundle Makefile.msvc os/win32/installer/install.nsi): -Codechange: add make bundle_exe which makes a windows installer and unify the files that go into the bundles (zip/gz/bz2 etc) and installer.
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21:43:24  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: fjb
21:43:31  <Ammler> it is called "nshp_ecs.grf"
21:44:43  <Amixbook> hey
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21:53:51  <MsG> hi guys
21:53:55  <MsG> I was wondering
21:54:00  <MsG> I use Ubuntu and Windows Xp
21:54:05  <MsG> both same version of OTTD
21:54:10  <MsG> can I exchange savegames?
21:54:13  <MsG> without trouble?
21:54:15  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
21:54:17  <MsG> cool
21:54:23  <MsG> even if it werent same version?
21:54:37  <Eddi|zuHause> you can load older savegames in newer version
21:54:45  <MsG> because the repisotory of ubuntu has a lower ottd
21:54:46  <Eddi|zuHause> but not the other way
21:54:49  <MsG> but i downloaded the newest
21:55:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not sure if there was a savegame difference between 0.6.2 and 0.6.1
21:55:58  <MsG> I use both the same version atm
21:56:11  <MsG> when will the new graphics be implemented
21:56:23  <MsG> maybe I can make some new buildings with my Google Sketchup skills :P
21:56:48  <Ammler> MsG: you can also download newer deb from the official ottd download page
21:57:21  <MsG> yeah I did
21:57:35  <MsG> but the deb build has a filename like 6.2-1 and the windows just 6.2
21:57:45  <MsG> just the name I think?
21:57:51  <Ammler> that is the same
21:58:11  <MsG> What are the requirements of being a graphic guy to develop a building or two?
22:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you could first paint it, and then post in the graphics forum that you search for a coder
22:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause> or you can read up on the new graphics specs
22:02:43  <Eddi|zuHause> on
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22:09:25  <MsG> paint it? I see they are al modeled
22:10:41  <fjb> Ammler: The nshp_ecs.grf is not enginepool aware.
22:11:22  *** divo [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:13:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well... whatever they call "painting" nowadays, i mean "make it into a picture" :)
22:14:26  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... the schedule of my local train has the same length as that of the express train...
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22:15:38  <MsG> any modelers online?
22:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think you find those around here
22:17:08  <MsG> ok
22:17:14  <MsG> Any dutch guys
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22:19:15  <fjb> Are articulated road vehicles not able to overtake?
22:19:16  <ln> tågets yttre dörrar kan först öppnas nÀr tåget har stannat och dörrens gröna signallampa brinner.
22:19:50  <fjb> Döner im Wald machen Signallampen schöner?
22:20:09  <ln> hier essen, bitte.
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22:24:37  <Eddi|zuHause> "grÌner", nicht "schöner" ;)
22:26:09  <bruce89> MsG: the -1 means Debian revision number 1
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22:33:18  <Brianetta> Sacro: You have 35k on teh game now
22:34:10  <ln> where are the photos of the meeting?
22:43:32  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14116 /trunk/Doxyfile: -Change [Doxygen]: making man-pages of the exports of the source isn't very useful as OpenTTD isn't a library.
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22:48:06  <SpComb> hmm... drive through McDonalds for trams?
22:48:13  <SpComb> I don't see that being all too profitable
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22:52:50  <fjb> You are right. It already closed its service.
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