Log for #openttd on 30th August 2008:
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00:07:02  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:22:52  <Brianetta> Please assess for comedy value:
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00:24:44  <Gekz> +1 Informative
00:32:11  <Brianetta> (:
00:32:17  <Brianetta> It shouldn't be informative
00:32:28  <Brianetta> It should be "-1 stating the bloody obvious"
00:32:33  <Brianetta> alas it seems I'm not
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02:06:08  <fmauNekAway> gn8
02:17:35  <Belugas> MMH...
02:17:51  <Belugas> i THINK i have the solution, Phantasm
02:18:39  <Phantasm> You do? ;P
02:19:36  <Belugas> yup
02:19:49  <Phantasm> So, what is it?
02:20:03  <Belugas> the main problem is that i was too concetrated on the montly process of industries
02:20:32  <Belugas> so, at each month's end, ususally, the process of industries take place
02:20:48  <Belugas> where the creation as well as the destruction are happening
02:21:19  <Belugas> so, one of my biggest fears was that thecreations would eventually be too much to ask
02:21:32  <Belugas> and the system would crawl to a stale
02:21:57  <Belugas> so instead, i'll run the creations each day, but in smaller numbers
02:22:21  <Phantasm> Indeed.
02:28:33  <Belugas> hehehe... i just need to get a good algo regarding numbers to handle per days now :D
02:29:03  <Belugas> 'cause with the quick test i hacked, my poor 64*64 game will be over crownded in a month ^_^
02:29:55  <Phantasm> Heh.
02:30:24  <Phantasm> With once a day, the percentage newer goes above 100%, so you can just play with percentage.
02:30:29  <Belugas> and indeed, the engine has not slowed down enough to be noticable
02:30:46  <Belugas> exact
02:31:01  <Belugas> but it's still a long way to go
02:31:12  <Belugas> but now, i do have a line to follow ^_^
02:31:16  <Phantasm> :)
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04:45:33  <Wombly> hi
04:47:18  <Tekky> hi Wombly. I'm going to bed now, good night :) It is 7 AM here in Germany :)
04:47:21  <Wombly> I'm playing on a trains only server, and someone was able to build an airport (no planes though), my airport button is greyed out... how is it possible?
04:47:25  <Wombly> hi Tekky
04:47:43  <Tekky> I've stayed up the whole night :)
04:47:50  <Wombly> it happens to me often playing openttd
04:48:06  <Wombly> have a good sleep
04:48:51  <Tekky> thanks :) Unfortunately, I have never played a multiplayer game before, so I cannot help you.
04:49:11  <Wombly> ok :)
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04:55:21  <Jerimiah40> Wombly - You'd probably have to try to get in touch with the server owner
05:01:35  <Wombly> it's not a big deal, just wondering how it could happen that an airport can be built when planes are disabled.
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05:11:23  <Forked> hm
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05:34:26  <Forked> no route found! hit me again.. lets see if I can reproduce this time
05:40:51  <Forked> yay
05:40:55  <Forked> managed to reproduce it
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06:12:08  <Rubidium> Wombly: you can configure the GUI to not grey them out and then it's your own problem when you build something that you can't use
06:14:33  * Forked scratches head
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06:16:49  <roboboy> do we have logs for this channel?
06:16:53  <SpComb> Logs:
06:16:53  <Forked> !logs
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06:24:44  <Forked> I assumed cargodest bugs should be posted in thread on forum, or does it have its own area on flyspray? and why am I asking before I check?
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06:39:18  <roboboy> I think I read they go on the wiki
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06:47:19  <Wombly> Rubidium, do you know what the command/patch is to have them not be grayed out?  I lookd for it on the wiki and couldn't find it.
06:48:53  <Pikka> !seen Ammler
06:48:57  <Pikka> wait
06:49:03  <Pikka> no patchbot in hear!
06:49:08  <Pikka> here either
06:49:12  <Pikka> what?
06:49:14  <Pikka> oh.
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08:00:50  <Rubidium> Pikka: s/!/@/ might help with talking to the bot
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08:01:12  <Wolf01> hello
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08:07:50  <Pikka> I see... :O
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08:10:22  <Eddi|zuHause> <Belugas> so instead, i'll run the creations each day, but in smaller numbers <- how about handling it in the tileloop? it is automatically scaled to map size
08:14:20  <Wolf01> Pikka, how do I increase production of your industries? They are always at 72t-90t (coal, iron ore etc) and when the resources are depleted  they produce 6t-18t for ages, I have one which says 1090% of an estimated 3k tonnes transported :|
08:17:59  <Pikka> well, the whole point is that they won't increase once they get up around 100%, because the economically exploitable resources are all used up
08:18:47  <Pikka> before that though, they should be as variable as the defaults, with higher production possible
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08:21:13  <peter1138> Estimated 3k tonnes? :D
08:21:20  <Wolf01> yes
08:21:33  <Wolf01> I take at least 20 years with 75-80% of transported production and the same percentual of ratings on the station to raise the production of an industry... after 20 years of 50t productions I find the industries producing 200-400t
08:22:15  <Wolf01> but this doesn't work with estimated resources, because they will be depleted in 5 years
08:22:36  <Pikka> 3k is an unusually low estimate though :P
08:22:37  <Wolf01> if the production is high enough
08:23:11  <Wolf01> all the industries I fund have low estimate, 3-18k tonnes
08:23:37  <Wolf01> Industries placed in map generation have 1000 times higher
08:23:54  <Wolf01> 3000k-90000k tonnes
08:24:25  <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't sound right...
08:25:13  <Pikka> I just tried funding a whole bunch of mines and many of them have high estimates...
08:25:29  <peter1138> Bug!
08:26:31  <Pikka> don't you bug me sunshine!
08:26:35  <Wolf01> that depleted my bank balance too, because every year I need to fund new resources because they deplete the estimated, luckily I'm playing on big maps and I can rely on planes to transport passengers
08:26:53  <Pikka> (ps: wagon retirement, peter1138 :P)
08:27:05  <peter1138> Oh yes, NARS2 needs that.
08:27:15  <peter1138> Well..
08:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> my mines typically hav between 50k and 200k tonnes estimate
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08:28:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the clay pits a little lower
08:29:26  <Wolf01> I have a lot of clay pits :P
08:29:44  <Wolf01> all with the lowest estimate possible
08:30:19  <Pikka> which is?
08:31:01  <Wolf01> I have 2 with 3 and 10k tonnes
08:31:18  <Wolf01> now I was able to fund another one and it have 24k
08:31:43  <Wolf01> and it produces 154t at month
08:33:27  <Wolf01> ok, it dropped first to 72 and now is 64... fast forward of 4 months
08:36:05  <Wolf01> funded another one, 17k
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08:37:39  <Wolf01> I need to go away
08:43:17  <Pikka> what build of ottd are you using, Wolf01?
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08:53:54  <Wolf01> back
08:54:04  <Wolf01> Pikka, yesterday's nightly
08:56:57  <Pikka> hmm, well I dunno then!
09:00:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14188 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: [NewGRF] Cargo type of 0xFF is specified to be 'use first refittable cargo', so don't issue a warning for it.
09:01:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14189 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r14188): Accidental line removal
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09:05:56  <murray> sorry, i guess you've been asked this alot but
09:06:03  <murray> when you build a station near, say, a forest
09:06:13  <murray> does it matter how much you cover? one square? or all?
09:06:19  <Pikka> it doesn't matter
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09:06:34  <murray> ok thanks :)
09:06:51  <murray> but in cities it matter?
09:06:53  <murray> per house
09:06:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
09:07:02  <murray> ok :)
09:07:17  <Wolf01> it matter in cities and with some industries like the refinery
09:07:32  <murray> refinery? for when collecting goods?
09:07:41  <Pikka> no, it doesn't matter...
09:07:44  <Wolf01> not all tiles accept/produce the cargo
09:07:59  <Pikka> except for that :)
09:08:06  <murray> aah
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09:43:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14190 /trunk/src/spriteloader/grf.cpp: -Codechange: use alloc instead of malloc+free when the allocated memory shouldn't be used after the function ended.
09:43:29  <Forked> meep
09:44:02  <peter1138> moop
09:44:40  <Forked> peter1138: where do you want cargodest bugreports? wiki felt like the wrong place and I didn't see a category on flyspray (granted I might not have looked close enough :p)
09:45:19  <peter1138> They seem to be going to
09:45:35  <Forked> oh
09:46:49  <Forked> ok can't see this one here, I'll stuff it in after I get some food
09:47:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14191 /trunk/src/ (newgrf.cpp sprite.h spritecache.cpp):
09:47:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Codechange: unify the code to skip sprite payload (i.e. not the header).
09:47:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: sprite payload skipping wouldn't skip enough bytes in a very small subset of compressed sprites.
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09:48:14  <peter1138> Heh... which GRFs does that fix?
09:48:48  <Rubidium> I'd have to search back in the logs, but IIRC it's only one
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09:50:09  <extspotter> hi
09:54:10  <Rubidium> peter1138: can't find the name of the GRF, however... now skip sprite works like a) the spriteloader/grf.cpp and b)
09:56:37  <peter1138> I believe you ;)
09:59:17  <peter1138> Hmm, lifelength is a bit meaningless for wagons :o
09:59:58  <Gekz> awesome
10:00:13  <peter1138> What is?
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10:01:19  <Pikka|afk> what is "lifelength", peter?
10:01:22  *** Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka
10:03:16  <peter1138> property 03
10:03:32  <peter1138> At least, it's 20 for your wagons.
10:03:52  <peter1138> property 04 i guess would be better
10:04:00  <Pikka> oh, yes
10:04:08  <Pikka> property 04 is what I want implementing :)
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10:04:34  <Pikka> ie, remove the vehicle from the purchase list when that expires
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10:07:11  <peter1138> Life: 255 years :o
10:07:47  <peter1138> Maybe don't show life... hehe
10:07:56  <peter1138> What does Mr. TTDPatch show?
10:08:01  <Pikka> nothing
10:08:09  <peter1138> Oh
10:15:12  <Brianetta> I'm in two minds about engine expiry.
10:15:25  <Brianetta> On the one hand, progression is nice
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10:15:43  <Brianetta> and having to stockpile a fleet of stock for when it becomes unavailable is a nice touch
10:16:02  <Brianetta> but on the other hand, old locomotives only stop being available because people stop buying them
10:16:22  <Brianetta> if railway companies kept ordering steam locos, we'd still be seeing new ones today
10:16:38  <Brianetta> and it's nice to play what-if and to change the course of history
10:18:00  <Wolf01> steam maglev locomotive!
10:18:04  <Brianetta> woo
10:18:29  <Pikka> woo woo?
10:18:36  * Brianetta suspects that the same, in TTDPatch, is a steam loco with rubber tyres running int he concrete trough like a Paris Metro
10:19:39  <Wolf01> wait! I have a picture of a rail engine on rubber tyres
10:20:26  <Brianetta>
10:20:43  <Brianetta> I'm sure that's work in a concrete maglev trough without damaging it too badly
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10:26:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14192 /trunk/src/timetable_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2236]: properly update the current timetable's travel/wait times instead of only doing it for one vehicle in the shared order chain and only when some bit has not been set (PhilSophus)
10:27:35  <Brianetta> peter1138:
10:27:40  <Brianetta> New track type to add to the list (:
10:29:46  <peter1138> Hee
10:29:57  <Brianetta> High TE
10:30:08  <Brianetta> good acceleration and decelleration, quiet
10:30:21  <Brianetta> Costs more to run, though
10:30:25  <Brianetta> overcoming the rolling resistance
10:30:34  <peter1138> That's a problem for TTD then.
10:30:38  <Brianetta> Not suitable above the snowline
10:30:50  <Brianetta> Problem?
10:30:54  <peter1138> TE doesn't make a lot of difference.
10:31:04  <Brianetta> Well, it's *there*
10:31:19  <Brianetta> They can stop like a truck
10:31:25  <peter1138> I'm sure my trains accelerate too fast.
10:31:39  <Brianetta> You're not giving them enough wagons (:
10:32:12  <Brianetta> My tank engines take about 50 tiles to get up to decent speed with a full rake of coal
10:32:21  <Brianetta> more like 100 on the flat if they're to reach maximum
10:32:37  <Brianetta> Of course, a slope helps
10:32:49  <Brianetta> so I like to build stations on a little ramp
10:32:58  <Wolf01> oh, finally found it!
10:32:59  <Wolf01>
10:33:29  <Eddi|zuHause> haha! :p
10:33:37  <peter1138> Yeah, it's the 0-30mph acceleration I'm thinking of.
10:34:58  <Eddi|zuHause> and how do you go up slopes?
10:36:23  <Brianetta> Wolf01: That's a truly awesome vehicle
10:36:45  <Brianetta> I want one
10:36:55  <Brianetta> What is it?
10:36:59  <Brianetta> Where can I learn more?
10:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a russian V200 i think
10:37:06  <Wolf01>
10:38:07  <Eddi|zuHause>
10:38:34  <Brianetta> UNIMOG U-400 is a fabulous shunter
10:38:56  <Brianetta> Somebody should newgrf that, have it available as a loco and a road vehicle (:
10:39:09  <Brianetta> Somebody not me, natch
10:39:18  <Brianetta> I don't care *that* much
10:39:40  <peter1138> European railways use it? What, all of them?
10:40:24  <Brianetta> Perhaps it's some small operator
10:40:27  <Brianetta> called that
10:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> what? where? who?
10:41:18  <Brianetta> RGS No. 2 Spruce Goose
10:41:22  <Brianetta> Mail van with snow plough
10:41:35  <Brianetta> Eddi: Check out Wolf01's link
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10:43:00  <Brianetta> Oh, the Mini is beautiful
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10:43:53  <peter1138> rail mini! :D
10:44:12  <Brianetta> The Polish back-to-back one reeks of home made class
10:44:27  <Brianetta> including the board with the red tail lights on the radiator
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10:45:20  <Gekz> rail car
10:45:22  <Gekz> thats crazy
10:45:28  <davis-> :o
10:45:43  <Brianetta> Useful for inspection work, or shuttling workers to/from a work site on a long posession
10:46:58  <Brianetta> Davis:
10:47:06  <Brianetta> more on
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10:48:18  <fjb> Hello
10:48:31  <Brianetta> hi
10:48:45  <frosch123> moin :)
10:48:47  <Wolf01> is that a snowplow or a house?
10:48:59  <Wolf01> (the red thing)
10:49:03  <fjb> Quak frosch123
10:49:09  <frosch123> :)
10:49:24  <Wolf01> hi fjb
10:49:48  <davis-> hm
10:49:59  <davis-> thanks Brianetta :D
10:50:10  <fjb> Wolf01: You have to live somewhere when you get stuck in the snow. :-)
10:50:43  <davis-> railcars look like fun
10:50:55  <Brianetta> You'd never get the permission in the UK
10:51:21  <Brianetta> You'd even have trouble getting a private coach attached to a freight consist
10:51:26  <peter1138> Hehe
10:51:26  <fjb> No permission for getting stuck in the snow?
10:51:28  <Brianetta> although that's a personal dream of mine
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10:53:01  <davis-> i wonder how a farari on rails would do
10:53:02  <davis-> :s
10:53:05  <davis-> ferari
10:53:07  <davis-> >.<
10:53:34  <Brianetta> I think it'd either work really well or be a catastrophe.  No middle ground.
10:53:39  <Gekz> ferrari
10:53:44  <davis-> asd
10:53:46  <davis-> cant spell
10:53:52  <fjb> I have another question about the size of the rail vehicles. The 32px x 8px x 12px limit is for the / and \ view, right? What are the limits for the - and | view?
10:54:45  <Wolf01> uhm, peter1138, why not implement this on ottd?
10:56:33  <Brianetta>
10:56:41  <davis-> good for looking up skirts
10:56:46  <Brianetta> Buy that at the end of the game, and you get to use it near the beginning.
10:58:00  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: MB had some template graphics where you can fit in the wagons
10:58:57  <fjb> I will search the forum.
10:59:25  <fjb> Hm, is the 32bit blitter much slower? My games feels kind of "jumpy".
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11:08:48  <fjb> The game becomes unplayable slow with the 32bpp blitter.
11:09:19  <fjb> Is that a problem of memory bandwidth?
11:09:20  <Vikthor> Hi
11:09:26  <fjb> Hi Vikthor
11:09:33  <yorick> try the 32bpp-optim blitter
11:09:42  <yorick> and increase sprite_cache_size
11:09:52  * Vikthor is back from Greece
11:10:03  *** Netsplit over, joins: svippery
11:12:16  <fjb> I tried the optimized blitter.
11:12:47  <fjb> Where do I increase sprite_cache_size?
11:12:48  <frosch123> "sprite_cache_size = 64" is a must
11:13:00  <frosch123> [misc] section of openttd.cfg
11:13:41  <fjb> Found it.
11:14:01  <fjb> Is that MB?
11:14:10  <peter1138> Yeha.
11:14:40  <Forked> meep meep
11:14:42  <fjb> Then I will give it 128.
11:14:52  <peter1138> 64 is the max I think.
11:16:10  <peter1138> The original was 1MB, so 4MB should be enough for anyone ;)
11:16:50  <fjb> 64 is maximum. It reduces every highter value to 64.
11:17:30  <frosch123> iirc 32bpp needs factor 5 more memory
11:17:32  <fjb> But that is too few. The vehicles still "jump" around and scolling is a pain.
11:18:08  <fjb> But it is way better than with 4MB.
11:18:10  <yorick> fjb: disable animation!
11:18:13  <yorick> ;)
11:18:26  <fjb> I used the optimized blitter.
11:18:35  <fjb> Or animation at all? :-)
11:18:36  <Gekz> anyone wanna play freeciv?
11:18:46  <fjb> No.
11:18:53  <Gekz> you aren't anyone
11:18:56  <Gekz> you're no-one
11:18:59  <Gekz> go cut yourself.
11:18:59  <Gekz> !
11:19:10  <fjb> But I am someone. Is that not enough for you?
11:19:17  <Gekz> no
11:19:18  <yorick> try disable animation at all
11:19:34  <fjb> A headless 32bpp game. :-)
11:19:35  * yorick cuts Gekz in 2.
11:20:40  <Gekz> bits?
11:20:43  <yorick> yes
11:20:48  <yorick> what did you think, bytes?
11:20:49  <Gekz> now I'm just 1
11:20:52  <fjb> I'm having a memory bottleneck at my PC, or is the 32bpp blitter always that slow?
11:20:58  <yorick> I think it is
11:21:12  <yorick> but possibly you have a harddisk readspeed bottleneck
11:21:20  <frosch123> it is not that slow as you descibe (at least for me)
11:21:27  <yorick> or you're just having too much sprites
11:22:46  <fjb> Big town. But this is my spare computer. I had the feeling that it has some trouble wile playing NWN some days ago. There it also was kind of "jumpy" even with reduced graphic effects.
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11:23:20  <frosch123> what is your zoom level?
11:23:34  <fjb> I don't think that diskio is the problem, not much discio happening.
11:23:45  <yorick> there should...
11:23:57  <yorick> loading the sprites should take quite some diskio
11:24:00  <fjb> Tryied standard view and one level zoomed out.
11:24:16  <yorick> maybe you're just having too much sprites
11:25:13  <fjb> Something is strange with this PC. Maybe it is the cheap sis chip set.
11:25:42  <peter1138> I have no performance problem with 32bpp.
11:26:05  <Eddi|zuHause> <yorick> loading the sprites should take quite some diskio <- there is a spritecache for that...
11:26:10  <fjb> I encountered some Problems with also NWN.
11:26:27  <yorick> Eddi: you got quite a good spritecache if it doesn't need to cache things first
11:27:12  <fjb> The mainboard of my usual PC died. So I'm stuck with this one, got it used.
11:27:24  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... big problem... how do i port my savegame from the old timetabling patch to the new one?
11:27:50  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: easiest way to check if 32bpp is the issue: turn off 32bpp
11:27:57  <peter1138> yorick, loading the sprites takes hardly effort.
11:28:17  <peter1138> It would be noticable if it happened all the time, however.
11:28:18  <fjb> It is a Pentium 4 with 2,6GHz, 512MB RAM, and 8x AGP. Should be really fast enough.
11:28:32  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: It runs smoot with the 8bpp blitter.
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11:28:57  <fjb> Discio is at a minimum after loading the game.
11:31:42  <Eddi|zuHause> feature request: a german town name generator that can generate ~5000 names
11:32:16  <fjb> Lets have a look at eBay for a new mainboard. ASUS is not too confident about replacing my mainboard.
11:33:09  <fjb> Is there town name generator more than a list with town name parts?
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11:43:05  <peter1138> Hmm?
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11:47:37  <Pikka|afk> ho hum...
11:47:41  *** Pikka|afk is now known as Pikka
11:49:52  <peter1138> Yes, indeed.
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12:00:47  * Rubidium likes peter1138's 32bpp screenshot
12:01:21  *** Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
12:03:54  <peter1138> Heh
12:04:29  <peter1138> See, 0.6.0 has been out *ages* and there's still no coherent 32bpp set...
12:05:22  <Rubidium> same could be said for the open 8bits graphics
12:06:23  <peter1138> See, TTDPatch has been out *ages* and there's still no coherent 8bpp set...
12:06:28  <peter1138> Err
12:06:33  <peter1138> *replacement* set :o
12:08:53  <Rexxars> I'm getting a strange "TRGT.GRF file is corrupted or missing!" error on starting up the nightly, and some of the newgrf graphics are sort of distorted, is this a problem on my side, or is there an issue in the latest nightly?
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12:09:45  <Rubidium> Rexxars: I reckon you've got both the Windows and DOS graphics
12:09:46  <Pikka> yebbut where's Ammler?  I want to know what he was complaining about with NARS the other night...
12:10:00  <Rubidium> *original TTD graphics that is
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12:10:42  <Rexxars> has there been any changes in those areas of code lately? cause it worked fine on older nightlies
12:10:53  <Rubidium> and now it "chooses" randomly between the DOS/Windows graphics based on how many of the files you've got
12:11:15  <Rubidium> and apparantly DOS not gets a higher priority for you
12:11:30  <Rubidium> which is technically okay by me cause it has more colours
12:11:43  <peter1138> Just causes a few problems for network place ;)
12:11:45  <peter1138> *play
12:12:12  <Rubidium> peter1138: nothing that wouldn't have happened before
12:12:16  <Rexxars> hmm.. can you play with windows grfs and dos original source files?
12:12:28  <peter1138> Rubidium, indeed.
12:12:37  <peter1138> Original source files?
12:12:50  <Rexxars> er.. the dos TTD graphics
12:13:05  <peter1138> Nope.
12:13:30  <Rubidium> well... you can play with both dos and windows grfs, but not at the same time
12:14:32  <Rexxars> thanks
12:14:42  <Rexxars> the link to the readme on the download page is broken btw
12:14:44  <peter1138> How is handled?
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12:15:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14193 /trunk/src/spritecache.cpp: -Fix (r14191): don't put an unsigned 0x80 in a signed int8 as that's not what you want.
12:15:43  <Rubidium> peter1138: it takes whatever it pleases; doesn't care about dos or windows
12:16:03  <peter1138> Your 'TRGT.GRF' file is corrupted or missing! You can find it on your Transport Tycoon Deluxe CD-ROM.
12:16:06  <peter1138> :o
12:16:17  <peter1138> Just, er, found the files...
12:16:44  <Rubidium> yup... there's a corrupt set of graphics roaming the internets
12:16:49  <peter1138> Hm.
12:17:01  <peter1138> orudge!
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12:19:13  <fjb> Hm, I reduced the AGP apperture zize from 128MB (size of graphics memory) to 64MB (the factory setting of this PC). Now it is a bit faster.
12:19:27  <Sacro> AGP aperture should be 2x graphics RAM
12:19:32  <Rubidium> Rexxars: readme works (now)
12:19:38  <Rexxars> thanks :)
12:19:41  <Sacro> fjb: should be 256
12:19:59  <fjb> Sacro: Why?
12:20:21  <Rexxars> the nightlies page is sorta broken, but I suppose you knew about that already, heh
12:20:31  <Sacro> fjb: should be double GPU ram
12:20:37  <Rubidium> Rexxars: READ that page...
12:21:02  <Rexxars> why not remove that though, heh
12:21:05  <fjb> Sacro: Why? You can not access RAM that is not there anyway.
12:21:12  <Rubidium> Rexxars: too much effort
12:22:30  <Rexxars> :)
12:24:28  <peter1138> So who 'gives out' the correct versions, if Owen's are wrong?
12:25:03  <fjb> I need a vehice usage graph, showing on which lines a vehicle is almost full and on which more on the empty side...
12:25:29  <fjb> peter1138: Maybe the people of the german forum.
12:25:47  <Rexxars> owens windows ttd package worked fine for me
12:26:01  <peter1138> Rexxars, Windows does, yes.
12:26:04  <Rexxars> ah :)
12:26:18  <peter1138> fjb, I don't speak German.
12:26:42  <fjb> peter1138: You will find a linkt named "download" there. :-)
12:27:31  <fjb> The german forum ist hosted here:
12:28:18  <fjb> You will find the rest even if you are only speaking English.
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12:35:58  <Rubidium> peter1138: unless the md5checksum of openttd is wrong/different for some reason
12:40:18  <Rubidium> I don't have a TTD DOS CD, so I can't check the md5sum of the file on the actual CD
12:43:16  <Rubidium> some googling gave me more archives with the "wrong" md5 than the "right" one (wrong/right according OpenTTD's source that is)
12:44:59  <Wolf01> I have it
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12:46:55  <Boyinblue0> how can i promote town growth?
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12:47:19  <Forked> active stations and fund new buildings .. also build roads for them
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12:48:33  <Boyinblue0> kk ty =]=]
12:48:50  <Rubidium> Wolf01: what's the MD5 checksum of TRGT.GRF?
12:48:50  <Boyinblue0> any specific pattern of roads needed for better growth?
12:49:07  <Forked> I use 2x2 and 3x2 blocks with road around
12:49:26  <Forked> I have no idea if that is the best, but I think most houses prefer to have road on at least one side of their building
12:49:49  <roboboy> hello
12:50:06  <Wolf01> if you want I can send it to you, I don't know how to calculate the md5 :P
12:50:49  <glx> md5sum file
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12:51:02  <dragonhorseboy> hey
12:51:21  <dragonhorseboy> any of you in here know about the super power steam era in north america?
12:51:22  <Wolf01> glx, not on windows :)
12:51:28  <glx> on windows
12:51:36  <glx> with mingw/msys
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12:52:52  <Alberth> Rubidium: fcde1d7e8a74197d72a62695884b909e  TRGT.GRF
12:52:58  <Forked>
12:53:14  <Rubidium> Alberth: from the original CD?
12:53:36  <Rubidium> i.e. not some zip/iso downloaded from anywhere
12:53:40  <glx> e30e8a398ae86c03dc534a8ac7dfb3b6 *TRGT.GRF
12:53:48  <Alberth> yep, possibly a re-print (if CD's get reprinted:) )
12:54:16  <frosch123> I just compared the trgt.grf with those two md5 sums
12:54:24  <Wolf01> fcde1d7e8a74197d72a62695884b909e *TRGT.GRF
12:54:31  <frosch123> they only differ in a single sprite 674
12:54:49  <frosch123> it shows that e30e8a398ae86c03dc534a8ac7dfb3b6 is a bug fix for  fcde1d7e8a74197d72a62695884b909e
12:55:05  <Alberth> that is some vehicle?
12:55:19  <frosch123> i guess it is the sugar truck
12:55:27  <frosch123> not sure though
12:55:44  <Rubidium> so both are correct, but e30e* is more correct?
12:55:52  <frosch123> in fcde1d7e8a74197d72a62695884b909e is incorrectly clipped
12:55:55  <Alberth> that makes sense, I once saw a truck with some shifted graphics
12:56:29  <dragonhorseboy> thing I was wondering about was what alco must have called their unique 3-cylinder design
12:56:49  <dragonhorseboy> can't remember whichever train books it was in at all here
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12:57:37  <Pikka> what unique 3 cylinder design, dragonhorseboy?
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13:01:15  <dragonhorseboy> pikka the third cylinder was in middle .. Alco sold a good number of these ... hard to work on than the typical 2-cylinder but with the sudden depression (30's yeah) railroads just had to stuck to them and at least found them pretty good runners
13:01:42  <dragonhorseboy> especially when they were bumped off mainline and turned into yard humpers ... good low speed traction
13:02:01  <Pikka> nothing unique about that...
13:02:25  <dragonhorseboy> yeah? hm well I maybe only know of north america alone
13:03:27  <Pikka> even in north america they weren't completely outlandish
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13:06:24  <dragonhorseboy> heh well true but then also I do know some railroad-specific power tho ... eg SP's cabforward, Pennsy.'s shortlived tries with their own duplex's (built just barely before diesels took over, expensive ops I guess?)
13:06:26  <fjb> Hm... MD5 (/usr/local/share/games/openttd.dos/data/trgt.grf) = fcde1d7e8a74197d72a62695884b909e that is from an original CD.
13:06:57  <fjb> Ah, then that is an old version?
13:07:43  <Rubidium> so 4 original CDs say fcde with clipped truck and the other with fixed clipping comes from somewhere "illegal"
13:08:03  <dragonhorseboy> pikka didn't uk have just a few of one class of mallets for a while?
13:09:04  <peter1138> Rubidium, now just make it not load if the MD5SUM doesn't make :)
13:09:07  <Pikka> I don't think so.  certainly not the mainline railways.  possibly a narrow gauge.
13:09:30  <dragonhorseboy> yeah I only remember reading about them once .. seem they were a big large for their rails wise
13:10:14  <Pikka> the LMS had a class of Garratts, which might be what you're thinking of
13:10:27  <dragonhorseboy> hm yeah LMS does sound familiar
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13:13:03  <dragonhorseboy> if there's one thing I don't think should had been built anyhow (even with modern tech now too perhaps) .. it was that Eric triplex ... I'm not so sure even 300psi with a large firebox would had been able to steam these at plausible mainline speeds
13:13:21  <dragonhorseboy> Eirc got stuck using them as slow pushers till finally sent to scrap
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13:14:47  <dragonhorseboy> here for your viewing if you want
13:15:09  <dragonhorseboy> they were 210psi at the time
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13:15:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14194 /trunk/ ( projects/determineversion.vbs): -Fix: don't use hardcoded character offsets to get hg revision. This make it similar to svn and git (ie without the ':').
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13:21:10  <Brianetta> powered tender (:
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13:28:46  <Pikka> powdered tender!
13:29:48  <peter1138> So now that NARS2 uses the narrow gauge tracks as regular tracks...
13:30:02  <peter1138> We need someone to draw even narrower gauge :)
13:30:56  <Pikka> no we don't :P
13:31:13  <hylje> soon we will have monorail
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13:36:05  <dragonhorseboy> another railroad also had some triplex's for pusher service (able to keep tender almost full all times) but rather than scrap they just rebuilt them with standard tenders (turning them into normal mallets)
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13:41:58  <dragonhorseboy> hylje..monorails? doesn't that already exist? ;)
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13:44:19  <peter1138> Hmm, it's slow in 1830 ;)
13:44:39  <peter1138> And those carriages are dinky.
13:44:47  <Pikka> indeed
13:44:57  <Pikka> I think you'd have to be mad to start before 1850, but dan insisted :P
13:47:26  <peter1138> Heh
13:48:03  <dragonhorseboy> 1890's for me :p
13:48:18  <dragonhorseboy> heh... all these American's ;)
13:50:41  <roboboy> im glad i started in 1950 with UKRS and cargodest
13:50:50  <roboboy> 1921 was hard enough
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13:55:57  <dragonhorseboy> heh I always start in 1920's all the times with dbsetxl...steam at that stage with some electric mixs (high initial cost, figured) on longer lines finally later on
13:56:01  <dragonhorseboy> ^_^
14:03:11  *** reldred is now known as reldred|gone
14:05:47  * roboboy wonders what the best way to upgrade his fleet of trains is and also add an extra set of the emus they are to be upgraded with when I get rid of my loan. I also want to add extra passenger wagons
14:10:12  <dragonhorseboy> ^_^
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14:32:24  <roboboy> do I have to register for flyspray to report a bug?
14:33:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14195 /branches/noai/ (71 files in 10 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14121:14194
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14:36:32  <frosch123> roboboy: yes, so there is a way to notify you about questions wrt your report
14:45:56  <roboboy> my cargodest game just crashed
14:46:41  <frosch123> do you have a savegame that reproducible crashes after load?
14:47:47  <roboboy> the emergency save crashes shortly after
14:48:46  <roboboy> and the save I made shortly before also crashes
14:49:07  <roboboy> I uploaded them both aswell as the other files the window says to
14:49:35  <roboboy> im no dummie at reporting bugs as I am used to playing alpha versions of TTDP
14:52:48  <roboboy> my game is over for now
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14:54:21  <glx> roboboy: does the crash.log tells something about the reason?
14:55:11  <glx> roboboy: it seems to be the crash reported on the forum
14:56:14  <roboboy> ok
14:56:30  <roboboy> i geuse reporting it twice isnt too bad
14:56:51  <roboboy> Reason: Assertion failed at ..\src\cargopacket.cpp:324: this->CargoLeft() != NULL
14:57:18  <Forked> hmm I think I saw that one reported in the wiki, sec
14:58:07  <Forked> or maybe it wasn't there.. forum perhaps. sorry :)
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14:59:28  <glx> roboboy: using the build from
15:00:08  <Gekz> why are people compelled to pm me
15:00:10  <Gekz> >_>
15:00:12  <Gekz> SO ANNOYING
15:00:17  <Forked> it was the forum, last page
15:00:22  <Forked> Gekz: you look girly?
15:00:26  <Gekz> at least spammers dont expect a reply
15:01:07  <roboboy> glx yeah. wherever it is on that Ammler pointed me to
15:01:33  <glx> good I should be able to debug these builds ;)
15:02:56  <roboboy> im off to bed soon
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15:07:27  <glx> roboboy: yes it's the same bug, crash happened when replacing
15:07:51  <roboboy> ok
15:08:08  <roboboy> so it was just that I had autoreplace setup
15:08:19  <roboboy> and I was not watching it
15:08:53  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:09:10  <glx> anyway it's a valid bug :)
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15:12:34  <roboboy> so shall I disable autoreplace for now and live with slow trains?
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15:15:07  <Forked> could change their orders so they come to the depot unloaded maybe
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15:59:27  <extspotter> hello?
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16:02:00  <FauxFaux> extspotter.
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16:03:44  <extspotter> how are you, fauxfaux?
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16:54:51  * insulfrog says hi to everyone
16:55:32  * SpComb ponders upon the state of the world
16:59:34  * insulfrog is pondering whether he should play TTDP or OTTD
17:05:26  <fjb> Is it somehow to set the path to the data directory on the command line?
17:06:34  <insulfrog> in other words, change directory using sommand prompt?
17:06:59  <fjb> Yes.
17:07:11  <insulfrog> if so its CD C:\(your directory)
17:07:27  *** Dr_Jekyll [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:07:31  <insulfrog> (oe what whatever directory you want
17:07:52  <fjb> No, I mean the path to the directory where OpenTTD searches for the GRFs.
17:08:20  <fjb> And no C:\ here anyway.
17:08:27  <insulfrog> not without changing the source code
17:08:38  <insulfrog> (as far as I know)
17:08:38  <SpComb> I think it's a compile-time option
17:09:16  <SpComb> ./configure --data-dir=...
17:10:36  <fjb> Yes, I know about the compile time option. The question was if there is a runtime option. I didn't find any, so I asked.
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17:20:12  <glx> there's no runtime option
17:23:56  <fjb> Thank you.
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17:52:41  <fjb> FreeBSD uses gcc but has no strndup().
17:53:04  <glx> does it define _GNU_SOURCE ?
17:53:10  <fjb> Yes
17:53:29  <glx> strndup is a GNU extension
17:53:48  <glx> and it depends on _GNU_SOURCE
17:54:06  <fjb> I just removed the test for _GNU_SOURCE and it compiled and linked. Complained about missing strndup() before.
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17:54:16  <fjb> Hm, strange.
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17:55:44  <fjb> A test for FreeBSD would be needed there. Don't know about the other BSDs or Solaris.
17:56:32  <glx> what is in CFLAGS ?
17:59:25  <fjb> Nothing, not set. Or I didn't find it. Wehre do I have to look for it? CFLAGS was not set in the environment nor in the Makefile in the toplevel directory.
18:00:03  <glx> in objs/[Debug|Release]/Makefile
18:00:50  <fjb> Ah, I looked into src/
18:01:10  <insulfrog> well, i g2g, cya :)
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18:01:49  <fjb> CFLAGS       = -O2 -fomit-frame-pointer  -DFREEBSD -Wall -Wno-multichar -Wsign-compare -Wundef -Wwrite-strings -Wpointer-arith -Wno-uninitialized -W -Wno-unused-parameter -Wformat=2 -Wredundant-decls -DUNIX -DWITH_SDL -I/usr/local/include/SDL -I/usr/local/include -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT -DWITH_ZLIB -I/home/frank/devel/OpenTTD-r14195noaicd/src/3rdparty/squirrel/include -DNO_GARBAGE_COLLECTOR -DWITH_PNG  -I/usr/local/include/libpng
18:01:49  <fjb> -DWITH_FONTCONFIG -I/usr/local/include    -DWITH_FREETYPE -I/usr/local/include/freetype2 -I/usr/local/include  -DENABLE_NETWORK -DWITH_PERSONAL_DIR -DPERSONAL_DIR=\".openttd\" -DGLOBAL_DATA_DIR=\"/usr/local/share/games/openttd\"
18:02:08  <glx> ok svn is guilty again
18:02:21  <fjb> Why?
18:02:35  <glx> what is the output of sdl-config --cflags ?
18:02:59  <fjb> -I/usr/local/include/SDL -I/usr/local/include -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 -D_REENTRANT
18:03:19  <glx> sdl defines _GNU_SOURCE
18:03:28  <peter1138> glx, you mean SDL is guilty, not svn.
18:03:36  <glx> ha right :)
18:03:38  <fjb> Ah, so BSD does not but SDL does. :-(
18:03:41  <glx> I mistyped
18:04:03  <glx> yes sdl does the same for windows
18:04:13  <fjb> Bad SDL.
18:04:32  <peter1138> When do get a native X11 driver? ;)
18:04:52  <fjb> So it will do that on any system, wether it has the GNU extensions or not.
18:05:52  <peter1138> Not on OS X, or with MS VC.
18:06:21  <glx> can you remove -D_GNU_SOURCE=1 in the makefile and see if it works ?
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18:08:53  <fjb> Ok,
18:11:19  <fjb> I'm doing a clean checkout from trunk first.
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18:20:07  <fjb> It compiles and links when I remove D_GNU_SOURCE=1 from the makefile.
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18:49:46  <Milloflex> is it possible to close the active window in ttd with a keyboard shortcut?
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19:00:30  <peter1138> No, because there is no concept of active window.
19:00:38  <peter1138> You can close all windows with delete, however.
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19:10:03  <Milloflex> active window = the one you did your last action in? ;-)
19:10:10  <Milloflex> thanks for the delete suggestion
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19:54:40  <fjb> I'm just reading the palette discussion in the forum and the palette diff that MB posted. I'm convinced now that a 32bpp blitter is a great invention.
19:56:14  <SmatZ> @seen Digitalfox
19:56:15  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Digitalfox was last seen in #openttd 5 days, 0 hours, 23 minutes, and 3 seconds ago: <Digitalfox> How are you Belugas ?
19:56:42  <SmatZ> @tell Digitalfox it was just a sync, sorry :-/
19:56:42  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Error: I haven't seen Digitalfox, I'll let you do the telling.
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19:57:08  <peter1138> ...
20:00:53  *** Slowpoke_ [] has joined #openttd
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20:01:34  <extflyer> hi
20:03:30  <fjb> Hi extflyer
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20:29:13  <Milloflex> even if i make a train 'non-stop' it stops at the station. is that correct?
20:31:44  <Rubidium> Milloflex: what version do you have?
20:35:54  <Milloflex> 0.6.2
20:36:34  <peter1138> non-stop means 'don't stop at any station en route to this one'
20:37:17  <peter1138> Unless you turn on that ttdpatch compatible thing, in which case all logic fails and the universe might as well self-destruct.
20:37:36  <Rubidium> in 0.6.2 then the meaning of that flag depends on the "station->ttdpatch compatible non-stop handling" patch setting
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20:38:12  <Rubidium> which makes non-stop mean that it won't stop at the listed station instead of the not listed stations
20:38:33  <Milloflex> oh ok
20:39:27  <davis-> i hear openttd sounds without running openttd *scared*
20:40:08  * fjb often tried to hit F1 in the irc window.
20:40:41  <davis-> :s
20:41:45  <fjb> But I also saw NWN cicular menu around a doorknob.
20:42:42  <peter1138> I once tried walking through a walk, after, er, playing Doom for a long time.
20:42:46  <peter1138> *wall
20:43:01  <peter1138> idspispopd :D
20:43:01  <Jerimiah40> Does anyone have any idea why a train would be constantly trying to get serviced?
20:44:27  <fjb> peter1138: That may explain some things...
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21:04:46  <fjb> Trains are kind of "flat" in the TTD world...
21:06:51  <fjb> Or is Purno's tutoial wrong here? It says 7px bit height for train cars, maximum 8px. But the catenary is at 12px? Or is the topmost part of the catenary at 12px?
21:08:22  <frosch123> j
21:08:27  <frosch123> Jerimiah40: maybe
21:08:59  <peter1138> fjb, I think that's ignoring the roof.
21:09:46  <fjb> Ah, the width of the roof gets added to the height of the side.
21:10:04  <frosch123> 8px is the height of foundations
21:10:27  <Jerimiah40> frosch - it was similar to that.  I didn't realize that in the game I joined, we were using electric trains
21:10:29  <frosch123> low bridges are sometimes even lower
21:10:44  <Jerimiah40> so all the diesel trains that I built were trying to autoreplace at non electrified depots
21:11:00  <fjb> I noticed glitches with some bridges.
21:11:20  <fjb> I'm not good at painting...
21:12:17  <frosch123> "with diagonal tracks", "original tubular bridge", "bridge over bridgehead" are known glitches
21:13:51  <frosch123> something different, does anyone know what the railway dictionary is heading for?
21:14:02  <frosch123> most entries are not related to newgrfs at all
21:16:42  <davis-> .
21:16:55  <Milloflex> is transport company ratings the same things that triggers "city refuse to allow building a xxx station here"?
21:17:05  <Milloflex> err. the thing that triggers**
21:17:39  <frosch123>  "city refuse to allow building a xxx station here" <- that depends on the rating you can see in the town window
21:21:00  <fjb> Don't know what the dictionary tries to achive. I looked at it and found it not that useful.
21:22:46  <fjb> Ok, it maybe become a bit more useful than the star discussion in german forum.
21:22:56  <frosch123> they are consuming 10 of the 20 lines in "recent changes"
21:23:35  <frosch123> the star discussion is as  useful as every off-topic topic
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21:24:50  <fjb> I wanted to vote for the most unusual numer of stars, but my password is no longer valid.
21:25:25  <fjb> The dictionary has a high activity because it is a new project and got advertized.
21:25:27  <Milloflex> frosch123, and the rating you are talking about is 'transport company rating'?
21:26:11  <frosch123> if you want to know the exact name, i would have to start ottd, but it is _not_ the rating in the station window
21:26:16  <frosch123> nor the highscore
21:26:33  <Milloflex> no np
21:26:43  <Milloflex> so if i have a town that i transport to/from much, it will basicly allow me to change more of the city without them getting 'mad'?
21:27:08  <Jerimiah40> Milloflex - The rating you're looking for is the one provided by the local authority
21:27:18  <Milloflex> thanks
21:27:19  <Jerimiah40> you can see that by clicking on the name of the city/town in question
21:27:39  <Jerimiah40> easiest way to raise it is to build trees in the area around the city, imo
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21:47:01  <Milloflex> oh. ok
21:52:37  <Jerimiah40> Sometimes you can 'bribe' them, but they'll sometimes catch on and then they'll like you even less
21:52:43  <Jerimiah40> and it costs a ton of money
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21:54:25  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... looks like i had a power failure while i was gone...
22:01:09  <fjb> Your power?
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22:19:22  <fjb> Now we will never lern to know him...
22:20:20  <Prof_Frink> fjb: Yes, but he's a known unknown.
22:20:43  <fjb> Hm, I have to think about that.
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22:26:59  <fjb> Hah, MB is cheating! His pantographs are taller then 12px.
22:27:23  <Prof_Frink> MB has big pance.
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22:59:24  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: how is that cheating? pantographs MUST be higher than the standard loading gauge
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23:00:58  <Eddi|zuHause> fjb: if you are talking about the perspective, the MIDDLE of the pantograph must be at 12px
23:01:52  <Eddi|zuHause> not even that... the front, as the catenary height is counted from the middle of the track, but the engine is drawn from the front of the track
23:04:27  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: not always
23:10:41  <roboboy> where do I get binarys for branches?
23:11:20  <Sacro> roboboy: the internet!
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23:12:37  <Eddi|zuHause> by substituting * with binaries in the topic, possibly
23:14:41  <roboboy> binaries for say cargodest
23:14:57  <Eddi|zuHause> that's not even a branch :p
23:15:09  <roboboy> Ammler: pointed me to the location on friday and ive forgotten where
23:15:12  <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, there should be binaries somewhere
23:15:13  <roboboy> ohwell
23:15:23  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what !logs are for ;)
23:15:26  <roboboy> I got my terms wrong then
23:15:28  <roboboy> ok
23:15:31  <roboboy> !Logs
23:15:42  <SpComb> Logs:
23:15:42  <Eddi|zuHause> !logs
23:15:48  <Eddi|zuHause> case sensitivy ftl
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23:57:14  <Brianetta> Standard Server started.  Now contains newgrf stations.
23:57:48  <Sacro_> Brianetta: and added calcium?
23:58:03  <Brianetta> added nothing
23:58:09  <Brianetta> remember, we're dieting
23:59:13  <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: It looks like the pantographs are highter than the catenary.
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