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00:01:53 *** Marine_ [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has joined #openttd 00:06:48 *** Guest4957 [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:19:01 *** welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:32:52 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76ED4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B773F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:41:17 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7C64C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:48:16 *** welshdragon is now known as welshdra-gone 00:50:05 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-2-131-220.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:56:31 *** De_Ghosty [~s@206-248-191-230.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:46:08 <Belugas> mmh.. 01:46:19 <Belugas> newgrf.cpp:2440 01:46:21 <Belugas> ignoring = CargoChangeInfo(index, numinfo, prop, &buf, bufend - buf); 01:46:31 <Belugas> should not it be someting like 01:47:09 <Belugas> ignoring = CargoChangeInfo(index, numinfo, prop, &buf, bufend - buf) != CIR_SUCCESS; ? 01:52:48 *** Marine_ [~chatzilla@92.16.241.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:53:56 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-140-131.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 01:56:03 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has quit [] 01:59:54 *** grumbel [~grumbel@i577BB5D9.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Client exiting] 02:07:18 <glx> Belugas: [17:05:51] <@peter1138> glx, I think more changes are necessary there. That fix the warning, and work the same way it used to, but not really work properly. 02:09:55 <Belugas> ok 02:10:07 <Belugas> not a problem, it's just a warning anyway :) 02:14:01 *** Frostregen_ [~sucks@dslb-084-058-153-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 02:19:31 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-173-237.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:19:41 *** Frostregen_ is now known as Frostregen 02:20:30 <Tekky> did the original Transport Tycoon Deluxe feature inflation or was that a feature added later by TTDPatch/OpenTTD? 02:20:50 *** roboboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd 02:24:15 *** Sacro [~Ben@83.100.229.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:39:29 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit] 02:45:26 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:47:33 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 02:51:39 <DaleStan> Tekky: Inflation is a TTD original. 02:51:48 <Tekky> thx 02:59:42 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:59:52 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 03:02:13 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180065168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 03:06:44 *** elmex [~elmex@e180064113.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:07:09 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex 03:16:29 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:31:02 *** draconnier [~svencanni@ip-83-99-87-187.dyn.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:30 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493E3B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 04:04:27 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-140-131.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:07:28 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has quit [Quit: http://www.interplay.com/] 04:07:38 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-137-42.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 04:24:45 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:34 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 04:39:35 <roboboy> hello 04:57:33 *** Reemo [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0FF4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 05:06:35 <roboboy> When I compile openTTD with vsc05 it never seems to get past determining version number 05:20:04 *** valhalla1w [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 05:23:47 *** welshdra-gone [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:26:22 *** valhallasw [~valhallas@a62-251-30-68.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:49:19 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-153-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 05:51:08 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 05:51:08 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:11 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 06:17:11 * roboboy returns 06:19:05 * peter1138 gosubs 06:23:24 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F7C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 06:23:31 <fjb> Hello 06:29:26 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:29:37 *** peter1138 [~peter@svn.bucks.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:31:34 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 06:32:01 <roboboy> compiling in vsc05 never gets further than determining version and then the status returns to ready from build started 06:35:14 *** mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has joined #openttd 06:46:47 *** De_Ghosty [~s@76-10-137-42.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:14:26 *** Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:16:24 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 07:17:45 <planetmaker> morning 07:17:51 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-5.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 07:18:09 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C0CD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:19:59 <fjb> Morning planetmaker. 07:23:12 <planetmaker> cargodest test day :) 07:25:49 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 07:33:12 *** dfox [~dfox@r9eh58.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 07:34:05 <Forked> gooood morning 07:34:25 <TrueBrain> oh, it is him :p 07:36:54 <Rubidium> should we daemonize the fork? 07:37:24 <TrueBrain> that at least puts him in the background 07:39:43 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 07:41:10 <Forked> oy :\ 07:42:06 *** peter1138 [~peter@svn.bucks.net] has joined #openttd 07:42:09 *** mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ 07:47:44 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:49:18 *** Yeggzzz is now known as Yeggs-work 07:51:14 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has joined #openttd 07:51:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14233 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): 07:51:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature/Fix [FS#2172]: save the palette of the loaded NewGRFs in the savegame, 07:51:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: so joining with a server using Windows palette will make a client with the DOS 07:51:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: palette do palette conversion and (thus) not cause a desync due to the different 07:51:20 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: palettes disabling different NewGRFs. 07:51:25 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: you around? 07:53:18 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:37 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 07:55:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: yes? 07:56:42 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: you had that problem with two trains: one going A-B-C-D-E and another going F-B-D-G right? 07:57:11 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah. but they were trams ;) 07:57:17 <Celestar> doesn't matter. 07:57:27 <Eddi|zuHause> of course ;) 07:57:34 <Celestar> do you have such a savegame (preferably no other vehicles) and/or want to test a patch? 07:59:23 *** mortal [~mortal@217.61.144.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:59:43 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i still have that game, but it has lots of other vehicles 08:02:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you can show me the patch, though ;) 08:08:16 <Celestar> in a minite 08:08:18 <Celestar> minute 08:08:22 <Celestar> doing some preliminary test (= 08:08:34 *** mikl_ [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 08:09:09 <Celestar> I've already thought of a first route balancer (= 08:09:16 <Forked> I was late for work again today.. 08:09:32 <Forked> expanding the service my company offers to a city called Kristiansand 08:09:40 <Eddi|zuHause> Forked: easy solution: quit work 08:10:00 <Forked> eddi: if only I was rich :p 08:11:57 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:12:32 <Celestar> REAL men make money without work 08:12:51 <Forked> find a rich wife? 08:13:10 <Forked> hmm. I think I like Google Chrome. 08:14:23 *** nekx [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 08:14:33 <Celestar> when is the abort-condition of a for loop tested? 08:15:11 <Rubidium> for (; <this>; ) <- that one? 08:15:57 <Celestar> yes 08:16:05 <Celestar> pre, right? 08:16:08 <Rubidium> for (x; y; z) a == { x; while (y) {a; z;} 08:16:23 <Eddi|zuHause> for (a;b;c) {d;} is an abbreviation for a; while (b) {d; c;} 08:20:56 <peter1138> Forked, it's okay. It's not really anything as special as they're making out ;) 08:21:04 <peter1138> And where's the source if it's open source... 08:21:35 <peter1138> And its 'back' behaviour is a little annoying. 08:21:50 <Celestar> hm 08:22:01 <Celestar> building cargodest with --enable-debug=3 is unfun :P 08:22:09 <peter1138> :) 08:23:08 <Celestar> dunno what's sooo slow about it 08:25:51 *** Sir_Bob [~chatzilla@c122-107-216-160.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 08:27:45 <peter1138> Hmm, that has to be wrong :o 08:28:17 <Rubidium> shouldn't not optimising be slightly faster? 08:28:33 <Celestar> I mean not the building 08:28:35 <Celestar> but the running 08:28:48 <Celestar> fast forward with a SINGLE vehicle hardly gains any speed 08:29:12 * roboboy waits for openttd to compile 08:29:42 <Rubidium> Celestar: absolutely nothing is inlined so almost every "simple" function gets function call overhead/can't get optimised etc. 08:30:23 <Celestar> Rubidium: yeah, but I didn't notice it to that extend without cargodest 08:30:41 <Celestar> but then again, I'm making extensive use of std::map which is about 3 orders of magnitude slower without inlines 08:31:02 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:31:12 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 08:32:43 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: http://www.fvfischer.de/overdrive.diff <= give it an extensive try please (= 08:34:17 <Ammler> nice, joining with dos originals seems dummy safe now. :-) 08:34:29 *** Farden [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 08:36:23 *** mikl_ [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:41:57 * Celestar wonders how good g++ is at detecting loop invariants 08:42:20 <Ammler> Rubidium: now, I see only one little problem, which I do not care, if someone likes to load a save local with his DOS newgrfs... 08:42:23 <Celestar> especially in highly nested loop when the invariant is some member function with highly nested templates 08:43:26 <Rubidium> Ammler: what would be the problem? 08:43:38 <Rubidium> he can always switch the palette of the loaded newgrfs 08:44:41 <Ammler> well, OTTD does tell him, that the md5 is different and then he should realize to toggle... 08:44:57 <Ammler> the GRF is orange then? 08:47:04 *** Kasceh [~Kasc@cpc2-leed7-0-0-cust124.leed.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 08:47:33 <Ammler> anyway, many thanks, that will solve many confusion on our server, I hope :-) 08:49:03 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: i think templates are resolved first, and then the standard g++ magic starts 08:50:08 <roboboy> I compiled a debug version of the trunk and it tells me that I have invalid language packs even if I coppy it to a working OTTD install 08:50:17 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah 08:50:32 <roboboy> I did not get any language files when I compiled 08:50:33 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yet I'm not sure whether to trust the optimizer fully (= 08:50:50 <roboboy> its my first compile 08:54:32 *** Sir_Bob [~chatzilla@c122-107-216-160.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:56:27 <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: MSVC? make sure you compile strgen first 08:57:50 <roboboy> ok 09:01:18 <roboboy> im recompiling but this time cargodest instead of trunk 09:03:58 *** elmex_ [~elmex@e180067043.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 09:05:47 *** elmex [~elmex@e180065168.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:05:47 *** elmex_ is now known as elmex 09:06:24 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 09:09:25 *** reldred|gone is now known as Reldred 09:09:39 * roboboy hopes it works 09:09:55 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [] 09:09:56 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 09:12:23 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 09:16:37 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:18:34 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 09:30:42 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:33:09 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 09:33:20 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F6F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:33:32 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest5045 09:33:38 *** DorpsGek [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 09:33:41 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 09:34:23 *** Guest5045 [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:50 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:36 <Celestar> :o 09:35:48 * Celestar just learnt that valgrind will not find out-of-bound access for arrays 09:36:51 <Eddi|zuHause> i have a little problem properly following my passengers, as trams don't have a detailed view :( 09:36:56 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 09:36:59 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@77.60.199.138] has joined #openttd 09:37:15 <Kloopy> Are you using the compile fark for the cargodest test, then?:) 09:37:26 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: yeah :( 09:37:31 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: use trains? ;) 09:37:47 <Celestar> hm Rubidium where do I find the options that are set when using --enable-debug=? 09:37:48 <Eddi|zuHause> kind of problematic through the city :p 09:38:12 <Celestar> :P 09:44:04 * roboboy leaves compiling cargodest alone as he is getting erors 09:45:31 <Celestar> what errors? 09:46:21 <roboboy> I shall login here from my server that im compiling on 09:48:14 *** robotboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd 09:50:24 <robotboy> hello 09:50:32 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... is there a way to hide all station signs that start with a certain prefix? (like "WP" for stations that are only used as waypoints) 09:50:43 <robotboy> c:\openttd development\cargodest\src\src\routing_classes.h(32) : fatal error C1083: Cannot open include file: 'boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp': No such file or directory is one of the erors 09:50:59 <Eddi|zuHause> you need to install boost 09:51:14 <Eddi|zuHause> as described on the wiki 09:51:26 <robotboy> BSCMAKE: error BK1506 : cannot open file '..\objs\win32\release\routing.sbr': No such file or directory being the other 09:51:29 <robotboy> ok 09:51:58 * peter1138 updates a patch from 13388 ... mmm, conflicts ... 09:52:02 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 09:52:16 <Celestar> robotboy: did you install boost at all? 09:53:08 <robotboy> nope. where does it say to install it? On the cargodest page? if so then I only read it quickly 09:53:33 <robotboy> fixing it now 09:54:29 <Celestar> Cannot open include file: 'boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp' <= apparently you need to install it somewhere in the default include path 09:56:16 <robotboy> do I just download and install the entire package? 09:56:52 <Celestar> yeah 09:56:57 <Celestar> you got space constrains? (= 09:57:05 <robotboy> not realy 09:58:21 * robotboy loves mibbit.com 09:59:46 <robotboy> its great for logging into irc from locations that dnt need/have a client or java installed 10:03:52 *** Jezral [~projectjj@users113.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd 10:04:10 *** roboboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 10:04:41 *** roboboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has joined #openttd 10:04:59 <roboboy> firefox crashed 10:05:08 <SmatZ> no way 10:05:22 <SmatZ> works for me 10:06:08 * roboboy waits for boost to download 10:07:05 <roboboy> its beeing verry slow 10:09:18 <roboboy> I may want to get it elsewhere if its not finished when I get back from dinner and watching TV 10:09:24 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users113.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:14:25 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [routing] [Passagiere] :INFO: Vehicle arrived at <109> without order <- how can i find out where that is? 10:15:10 <Progman> where? 109 is the station 10:15:27 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. 10:15:32 <Progman> but the question is, which is the vehicle ;) 10:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> i want to know which station that is 10:15:46 <Eddi|zuHause> as in get the name, or scroll to 10:15:57 <Progman> check the rn command 10:16:15 <Progman> afaik there is a command to get the name of the ID 10:18:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ah yes, "rn lv" 10:19:44 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... something is wrong with the start time display 10:21:58 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: I did have the station name there, but it was so horribly slow 10:22:34 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it's not needed there, it's sufficient to run another command to find out the name 10:22:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i just wanted to know which command ;) 10:24:51 <Celestar> rn lv then it is 10:24:52 <Celestar> (= 10:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: a suggestion about handling such a case: the passengers that are in the vehicle should not leave it, unless it is really their target station 10:26:11 <Eddi|zuHause> currently, it unloads all passengers 10:26:27 <Eddi|zuHause> which then have nowhere to go 10:26:31 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: er? 10:26:45 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: elaborate 10:27:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the vehicle that caused above message, was currently unloading everything at this station 10:27:38 <Eddi|zuHause> a station that is not served in anyway 10:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> s/yw/y w/ 10:28:20 <Eddi|zuHause> they should have stayed in the vehicle 10:28:59 <Celestar> it should do exactly that 10:29:34 <Celestar> at least I did when last I checked :o 10:29:38 <Celestar> got a savegame for me? 10:29:50 *** DorpsGek is now known as Guest5051 10:29:56 *** DorpsGek [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 10:29:57 *** mode/#openttd [+o DorpsGek] by ChanServ 10:30:08 *** TrueBrai- [truebrain@openttd.org] has joined #openttd 10:30:28 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14234 /trunk/src/cargopacket.cpp: -Fix: feeder share was computed wrong when splitting cargo packet 10:30:47 *** TrueBrain [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:47 *** TrueBrai- is now known as TrueBrain 10:30:49 *** Guest5051 [truebrain@openttd.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:30:58 <TrueBrain> that should be the last of it :) 10:31:20 <Celestar> last of what? 10:31:29 <TrueBrain> unexpected reboots :p 10:31:33 <TrueBrain> well .. 'unexpected' 10:33:35 <TrueBrain> now we can finally boot 64bit guests 10:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Celestar: unfortunately not 10:35:33 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:36:26 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 10:39:58 <peter1138> \o/ 10:40:09 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:40:48 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:40:52 <dih> @kick guest64 10:40:52 <DorpsGek> dih: Error: guest64 is not in #openttd. 10:40:54 * roboboy thinks somehing is going on with SF downloads or his connection at the moment 10:41:02 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [] 10:41:22 <TrueBrain> roboboy: most likely: SF :p 10:41:31 <TrueBrain> what are you trying to download? :) 10:41:44 <dih> the internet 10:41:50 <roboboy> boost to compile cargodest 10:42:00 <TrueBrain> dih: that is a big download ;) 10:42:48 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's only 2 DVDs when you strip the porn :p 10:42:54 <Kloopy> lol 10:43:04 <TrueBrain> really, Intel BIOS sucks .. they disable Virtualizing by default .. and for what reason? :( 10:43:05 <peter1138> Grr, Windows just bluescreened :o 10:43:09 <TrueBrain> peter1138: :o :o 10:43:16 <TrueBrain> lol @ Eddi|zuHause 10:43:35 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:43:42 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has left #openttd [] 10:43:54 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 10:44:19 <Kloopy> Wasn't TrueBrain going to be really nice and use the compile farm for cargodests this afternoon? :P 10:44:24 <peter1138> SmatZ, that doesn't actually affect payments, does it? 10:44:29 <Kloopy> Meaning you'd not have to download boost? 10:44:50 <Celestar> peter1138: only feeder shares 10:45:33 <SmatZ> peter1138: as Celestar said :) the only problem is that the vehicle that loads these packets may show invalid negative income 10:45:38 <SmatZ> like in FS#2261 10:45:45 <Ammler> Kloopy: he is just waiting for us to ask him to :-) 10:46:03 <dih> Ammler: ask kindly :-P 10:46:03 <Ammler> (he has nothing else to do) ;-) 10:46:11 <dih> now that will help! 10:46:21 <SmatZ> but the real money are still computed from distance(orig. src -> dst) 10:46:29 <peter1138> SmatZ, *nod* 10:46:29 <Celestar> Kloopy: only if i've 'fixed' the source for the test 10:46:35 <Celestar> and I want some changes in first 10:46:39 <Kloopy> What's broken with it, Celestar? :) 10:46:45 <Kloopy> You're the man! You can fix it! :D 10:47:08 <roboboy> but I want to compile myself anyway 10:47:25 <Kloopy> Fair enough, roboboy. :) 10:48:27 <Eddi|zuHause> OVERDRIVE: 2 <- i think that's too little information to really know if it's doing what i want it to do 10:48:34 <Celestar> Kloopy: payment stuff is one thing (in trunk now) 10:49:01 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: enable debug routing level 1, then you get a BIT more information. You'll get even more in about 30 minutes, k? 10:49:15 <Ammler> how do I pull a hg repo in a svn repo? 10:49:21 <Eddi|zuHause> i enabled that, but it doesn't say anything 10:49:30 <Ammler> (if it is possible...) 10:49:54 <Eddi|zuHause> except the other message about the wrong station 10:50:11 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: DONT use intermediate stations without orders, just don't use them 10:50:23 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, it was a mistake 10:52:00 <peter1138> Celestar, 'ghost' orders are for after merge? 10:52:50 <Eddi|zuHause> merge should have priority now, i think 10:54:44 <Celestar> peter1138: I think so 10:54:55 <Celestar> peter1138: I think the GUI stuff should have priority now 10:55:33 *** davis- [~asd@p5B28BB5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 10:55:38 <Kloopy> Celestar: In Multiplayer, are cargodest patch settings for EVERYONE or can you have some companies with cargodests enabled and some without? 10:55:45 <peter1138> They're for everyone. 10:55:47 <Kloopy> Ok 10:57:59 <Celestar> they must be basically 10:58:52 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 11:02:09 * roboboy wonders where else to get boost or the bit he needs 11:02:15 *** Jezral is now known as TinoDidriksen 11:02:29 <Eddi|zuHause> when newgrf ports are extended to tram stations, there should be the ability to place certain road bits over them 11:02:47 <Celestar> roboboy: www.boost.org ?! 11:03:43 <Celestar> roboboy: maybe here? http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=7586&package_id=8041&release_id=619445 11:03:58 <roboboy> I said else as there downloads are from sourceforge and it is taking forever to get 11:04:17 <roboboy> unless I leave it overnight 11:05:13 <roboboy> that was quick compared to before 11:05:51 <Celestar> er use another mirror? 11:08:43 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently i have an "OVERDRIVE: 7" route ;) 11:09:20 <roboboy> fixed 11:09:34 <roboboy> do I just need graph? 11:10:01 <Celestar> roboboy: yeah 11:10:06 <roboboy> or should I just unzip the entire boost folder? 11:10:06 <Celestar> roboboy: it it depends heavily on other stuff 11:10:15 <roboboy> ok 11:10:43 <Rubidium> Celestar: what do you want to know exactly about the debuglevels? 11:11:50 *** Sir_Bob [~chatzilla@c122-107-216-160.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 11:12:00 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [routing] [Passagiere] :Overdrive used at <63> 11:13:51 <Eddi|zuHause> is it possible that the function gets called a lot of times? 11:14:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i got kinda spammed with output, even though only 1 passenger is in the tram 11:14:16 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: every time yes. 11:14:31 <Celestar> Rubidium: er ... er ... what was my question again? :P 11:15:04 <Celestar> kinda lost track :P 11:15:04 <Rubidium> 11:37 < Celestar> hm Rubidium where do I find the options that are set when using --enable-debug=? 11:15:09 <Celestar> oh RIGHT 11:15:10 <Eddi|zuHause> hm, no, it's the wrong tram 11:15:10 <Rubidium> 11:37 < Celestar> hm Rubidium where do I find the options that are set when using --enable-debug=? 11:15:12 <Celestar> Rubidium: no problem I found it (= 11:15:24 <Rubidium> argh... stupid putty :( 11:16:51 <Eddi|zuHause> the tram was going the other direction, coming from the main station, so it was probably rather full ;) 11:17:02 <Eddi|zuHause> so it appears to be working alright 11:18:22 <Forked> reminds me, I saw some strange behaviour earlier, but will look at it when I get home. 11:18:41 <Celestar> Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception. 11:18:44 <Celestar> GNAHH 11:18:52 <TrueBrain> wow, impressive :) 11:19:03 <Forked> A train going A-C-B never loaded a single passenger.. while trains going A-B-C got them all - even those to C 11:19:15 <Rubidium> sounds like a generic division by 0 11:19:18 <Forked> but that might not have been in the latest version :) 11:20:14 <roboboy> so I ned to include the boost files? 11:20:40 <roboboy> ie add them to the include folders list in vs05 11:22:24 <Eddi|zuHause> i wondered yesterday... why am i the only person who finds those electrified/unelectrified bugs? 11:23:33 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: because you are a geek? :p 11:23:34 <SmatZ> bugs? 11:23:55 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: because everybody uses maglev. :-P 11:24:36 <Celestar> :P 11:25:32 <Celestar> ... 11:25:38 <Celestar> peter1138: I'd need some help with the GUI stuff 11:25:41 <Celestar> :P 11:25:52 <Celestar> I'm waaaaay to stupid to do it correctly today 11:26:19 <TrueBrain> General Anouncement: Windows Sucks! (takes 422 seconds to compile a Windows binary, where all other targets take around 180 seconds)... 11:26:48 <Celestar> General Anouncement: Zero is needed Zero 11:26:50 <Celestar> :P 11:27:02 <Celestar> http://www.fvfischer.de/rvgui.diff <= this is what I have up to now 11:27:03 <Celestar> :P 11:27:30 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: remove -O3 :) (if it is still there ;) 11:28:53 <SmatZ> hmm no 11:29:18 <TrueBrain> MSVC compile 11:31:42 * roboboy leaves cargodest to compile 11:31:46 <roboboy> brb 11:32:13 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 11:33:15 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: can you set lower optimisation anyway? 11:33:58 <TrueBrain> dunno, I don't work with MSVC :p 11:34:07 <SmatZ> iirc, win binaries are much bigger than linux ones, seems it does much more inlining 11:34:09 <SmatZ> or so 11:34:30 <SmatZ> I fail to find anything at the nightly page now :-) 11:37:18 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-2-131-220.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 11:38:29 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:38:56 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-40-130.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 11:39:22 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 11:40:57 <robotboy> BSCMAKE: error BK1506 : cannot open file '..\objs\win32\release\routing.sbr': No such file or directory I still get this eror 11:42:31 <Celestar> roboboy: is that the FIRST error you get? 11:42:37 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-229-5.prem.tmns.net.au] has quit [] 11:42:44 <robotboy> does boost need to be in the include variable or the lib variable? 11:43:00 <robotboy> no I still get the boost error 11:43:12 <Celestar> then you have boost in the wrong place 11:43:22 <robotboy> ok 11:43:29 <Celestar> you need a file that is "boost/graph/adjacency_list.hpp" 11:43:33 <Celestar> somehwere 11:43:38 <Celestar> the PATH is important! 11:43:42 <robotboy> does it go as an include or lib 11:44:25 <Eddi|zuHause> include 11:44:59 <Celestar> ... 11:45:03 <Celestar> "hpp" 11:45:10 <robotboy> so C:\Boost\Include would include all the boost files in the include variable 11:45:14 <robotboy> ok 11:45:19 <SmatZ> http://devs.openttd.org/~smatz/boost.txt list of files :) 11:45:27 <robotboy> that I need 11:45:31 <Celestar> then you need C:\Boost\Include\boost\graph\adjacency_list.hpp 11:45:35 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:45:39 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 11:46:08 <Brianetta> Celestar: When I said, "The passengers get off the train at every single stop. There, they decide which vehicle to use next," it was really to drive home the point that every station is somewhere that changes happen. That the passenger has *no inclination whatsoever* to stay on the train if there's a "better" one. That they don't actually get off until the decision is made is only semantically different. 11:46:53 <Celestar> yeah 11:46:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i beg to differ :p 11:47:10 <Brianetta> Eddi: Only loading times make it different 11:47:16 <peter1138> But isn't there a penalty for transfering? 11:47:28 <Celestar> nope 11:47:31 <robotboy> lets see if rebuilding fixes it otherwise I will be off to bed 11:47:34 <peter1138> Hmm, I thought there was :o 11:47:43 <Celestar> peter1138: there is a penatly for each stopover, no matter whether transferring or transitting 11:47:49 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: no, because it does not know in advance if the intermediate stop is really a transferring stop 11:47:56 <robotboy> gnight 11:47:58 <Celestar> peter1138: I'm working on coughing something up about this 11:47:58 <Brianetta> There probably should be. Passengers like to keep their seat, and it's time consuming and expensive to unload trains of cargo. 11:48:11 <Celestar> Brianetta: I'm already working on it 11:48:14 <Brianetta> (: 11:48:17 <Celestar> but it's something for version 2 11:48:17 <Celestar> (= 11:48:22 *** Doorslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-124.prem.tmns.net.au] has joined #openttd 11:48:27 <peter1138> Eddi|zuHause, right... and if it doesn't know about it all the way you could end up with bouncing cargo. 11:48:31 <Brianetta> One day we'll have cargo packets bound to cargo wagons 11:48:41 <Brianetta> and alter the consist in shunt yards 11:48:50 <Brianetta> so a given wagon will get where it's going 11:48:57 <Brianetta> but the "train" as an entity will be fluid 11:49:11 <Celestar> Brianetta: cargopackets ARE bound to cargo wagons 11:49:21 <Brianetta> I mean bound in the literal sense 11:49:49 <Brianetta> Until the mid-20th century, many cargo wagons were owned by the customer 11:49:58 <Brianetta> They just wanted their wagon to get somewhere 11:50:11 <Brianetta> It's spend several hours per night in marshalling yards 11:50:23 <Brianetta> but the cargo wouldn't be unloaded except by the customer 11:50:33 <peter1138> Heh 11:50:49 *** Reldred is now known as reldred 11:50:54 <peter1138> In that case you're transporting the wagons. The contents are irrelevant. 11:51:08 <peter1138> Sounds like quite a major gameplay change. 11:51:11 <Brianetta> I'm not saying our wagons shouldn't be our wagons; they should be "leased" to the customer at pick-up time 11:51:26 <Brianetta> So, we go fetch coal, as before 11:51:54 <Brianetta> but not all the wagons might be going the same way 11:52:24 <Brianetta> Trains could be split or merged 11:52:30 <Brianetta> it'd be fun 11:52:41 <Ammler> isn't it still that way with containers? 11:52:46 <Brianetta> yes 11:53:03 <Brianetta> but the trains consist isn't altered for those 11:53:07 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: a better addition to the game might be that you can 'buy' coal at a mine for a given price, and sell it to a powerstation at a given price, where those prices change depending on demand (so no longer it matters how long it travels) 11:53:24 <Brianetta> TrueBrain: That's how people perceive it at the moment 11:53:24 <Celestar> well 11:53:31 <Celestar> first thing we need a realistic braking 11:53:36 <Celestar> then we need realistic reversing 11:53:38 <Brianetta> Celestar: Agreed 11:53:45 <Celestar> so in about 2015 :P 11:54:01 <Ammler> TrueBrain: then you would need storage stations :-) 11:54:03 <Brianetta> [12:48] <Brianetta> One day we'll have..... 11:54:12 <peter1138> Shunting yards? 11:54:16 <Celestar> peter1138: YAY! 11:54:23 <Celestar> peter1138: have you finished them? :P 11:54:23 <TrueBrain> Ammler: of course 11:54:34 <Eddi|zuHause> argh... i wondered why my trams are suddenly going late at the same time 11:54:38 <TrueBrain> but I guess the game goes away from TT then a lot ;) 11:54:45 <Brianetta> I think buying/selling cargo departs radically from the game's premise 11:54:47 <Eddi|zuHause> i forgot to place a signal before the level crossing... 11:54:56 <Brianetta> People will want private industries, too 11:55:06 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 11:55:18 <Brianetta> Besides, the cargo might be unaffordable 11:55:21 <Brianetta> Take valuables 11:55:31 <Ammler> and private towns ;-) 11:55:36 <Brianetta> You're paid to carry them, but could you, as a train company, afford to pay outright for them? 11:56:15 <TrueBrain> Brianetta: in that case you would need to get a contract, to just move them from A to B 11:56:17 <TrueBrain> ;) 11:56:23 <TrueBrain> but yeah, 2015+ ;) 11:56:58 <Brianetta> TrueBrain: I thought the contract was just hidden from play, exactly like the passengers' tickets 11:57:19 <Brianetta> I never made the assumption that any of the cargo on board my trains belonged to me 11:57:39 <TrueBrain> it now for sure is ;) 11:57:50 <Brianetta> Cargo destinations removes the final stumbling block, wherein I get to choose where other peoples' cargo goes 11:57:55 <Brianetta> (thankgs Celestar, peter1138) 11:58:10 <TrueBrain> well, for sure it can;t be the 'final' one 11:58:23 <Brianetta> In this field of "it's not my cargo" it is 11:58:32 <TrueBrain> but for sure it is a good move forward ;) 11:58:38 <Brianetta> There are other stumbling blocks, but they're unrelated (: 11:59:18 <TrueBrain> but I still wish OpenTTD would have different types of gameplay 11:59:20 <TrueBrain> that would just be fun :) 11:59:32 <TrueBrain> and why does my Debian install hang at 'Validating libtext-iconv-perl' :( 12:00:03 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: how much micromanagement do you expect people to put in selling cargo at the right time? 12:05:23 <Eddi|zuHause> man... i definitely need orders that are both "no loading" and "no unloading" 12:05:40 <Brianetta> Eddi, what for? 12:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> "go via" does not let me timetable 12:05:51 <Brianetta> ah 12:06:04 <Eddi|zuHause> i want the freight trains to go to a siding and wait there for the express train to pass 12:06:37 <Brianetta> You could, for now, put the sidings in a location that neither accepts nor provides cargo 12:07:27 <Eddi|zuHause> the sidings are station tracks near a town 12:07:44 <Eddi|zuHause> stations are not in the middle of the pampa... 12:09:10 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 12:09:13 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:10:14 <peter1138> Pampa? 12:10:27 <Celestar> pampa ... south american plains 12:10:32 <Celestar> vast and lonely 12:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> it's a common phrase in german for a place in the middle of nowhere ;) 12:11:38 <peter1138> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=d&saddr=tring&daddr=tring+station&hl=en&geocode=&mra=ls&dirflg=w&sll=51.797522,-0.641327&sspn=0.026488,0.052013&ie=UTF8&ll=51.797947,-0.641155&spn=0.026487,0.052013&t=h&z=14 12:11:42 <peter1138> ^ Yes they are ;) 12:13:33 <Kloopy> Bah, whoever built that station failed. Have they not read the wiki about catchment areas? 12:13:33 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@77.60.199.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:13:52 <peter1138> They were obviously playing a cargodest build :) 12:13:54 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@77.60.199.138] has joined #openttd 12:14:00 <Kloopy> lol :P 12:15:04 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that's roughly my layout, but it does not guarantee in anyway that there is no acceptance 12:17:11 <Eddi|zuHause> it's funny how the surrounding photos are grey, and the area around this station is green ;) 12:18:29 <hylje> that's how catchment looks like 12:20:57 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:25:12 <peter1138> maps.live.com is better around this area. 12:25:59 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like microsof 12:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> t 12:26:03 <peter1138> It is. 12:26:11 <Celestar> maps.life.com 12:26:13 <Celestar> :P 12:26:17 <Celestar> mesa no have "life" 12:26:32 <peter1138> Hmm, there are 5 lines through that tiny countryside station ;) 12:27:08 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:27:08 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 12:28:08 <peter1138> And a Pendolino further up. 12:28:55 <peter1138> http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=51.802641~-0.624129&style=a&lvl=18&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1 :D 12:29:28 <Kloopy> They're a nice ride, those. 12:29:33 <Kloopy> Fast and comfortable. 12:29:36 *** Sir_Bob [~chatzilla@c122-107-216-160.eburwd5.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> dbg: [routing] [Passagiere] :Overdrive used at <64> <- i don't understand that one, 64 is the main station, no vehicles go through there, all end there... how can overdrive occur there? 12:35:20 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493C5D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:35:25 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: not sure (yet) :P 12:35:39 <Celestar> maybe going back? 12:36:05 <Eddi|zuHause> that's possible 12:36:29 <peter1138> Hmm, someone just did a transaction for â¬10,000 12:36:31 <Eddi|zuHause> instead of taking the train to the other end of the city, which they planned at first 12:37:09 <Rubidium> peter1138: you have to notify the CIA of such large transactions? 12:37:16 <peter1138> Nope. 12:41:50 <Celestar> TrueBrain: can we somehow start the compile farm on the current cargodest code base? 12:42:40 <glx> Celestar: msvc fails due to latest merge ;) 12:42:42 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:42:50 <Celestar> glx: it does? 12:42:53 <Celestar> where what how? 12:43:50 <Celestar> glx: and why? (= 12:43:52 <glx> r14234 cargopacket.cpp:275 12:44:14 <glx> Erreur,...2,...error C2666: 'OverflowSafeInt<T,T_MAX,T_MIN>::operator /' : les 4 surcharges ont des conversions similaires,...d:\developpement\ottd\trunk3\src\cargopacket.cpp,...222 12:44:23 <Celestar> EEEK 12:44:26 <Celestar> non-english output 12:44:28 <glx> overloading problem, MSVC can't determine what to use 12:45:00 <Celestar> glx: then you should have that error in trunk as well 12:45:10 <glx> it's in trunk :) 12:45:20 <Celestar> glx: any ideas how to get around that? 12:45:33 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 12:45:39 <glx> we had it before 12:45:48 * glx needs to find how we solved it 12:51:06 <glx> http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/fix_r14234_msvc.diff <-- that solves it 12:51:09 <glx> SmatZ: ^^ 12:54:16 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... missing a route... 12:54:19 <Eddi|zuHause> weird... 12:56:01 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: that live.com site fails horribly in konqueror... 12:57:42 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:59:13 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 13:00:14 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad00e8f.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:02:46 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493C5D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 13:05:49 *** Tekky [~chatzilla@p5493C5D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:07:03 <Belugas> hello 13:07:32 <Tekky> hi, did I understand correctly that the trunk and cargodest repositories were broken 10 minutes ago? Do they compile now or should I wait before getting the latest SVN release? 13:07:59 <glx> you can wait if you are a MSVC user :) 13:08:41 <Tekky> yes, I am a user of MS Visual C++ 2008 :( 13:13:39 <dih> laugh out loudly 13:13:59 <dih> i would say lol, but i thought i'd be more supportive after you expanded MSVC :-P 13:15:19 <peter1138> glx: ((uint)cp->count) ? 13:15:29 <peter1138> glx, why the extra braces? 13:15:36 <glx> safety ? 13:15:41 <glx> it works without it 13:16:20 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:40 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has joined #openttd 13:17:17 <Celestar> er .. static_cast<uint>cp->count ? 13:17:24 <Celestar> () 13:17:26 *** Sacro [~Ben@83.100.229.228] has joined #openttd 13:18:03 <TrueBrain> Celestar: is cargodest already compilable? 13:18:04 *** bleepy [bleepy@5ad34872.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 13:18:16 <Celestar> TrueBrain: no, I'm waiting for the final fix of glx 13:18:21 <TrueBrain> k 13:18:22 <glx> Celestar: works too 13:18:23 <Celestar> I dunno why MSVC fucks that up 13:18:23 <TrueBrain> let me know :) 13:18:38 <glx> MSVC and templates :) 13:18:55 <glx> TrueBrain knows how it nicely fails 13:19:01 <Celestar> cp>-count IS a unsigned short?! 13:19:11 <glx> it's an uint16 13:19:36 <glx> and uint16 is not one of the 4 "supported" types in templates 13:19:52 <Celestar> I didn't now MSVC sucked THAT badly 13:20:28 <Eddi|zuHause> my routing cache is wrong :( 13:20:30 <Celestar> are we we committing this cast? 13:20:35 <Eddi|zuHause> or my route network 13:20:46 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: how did you manage to mess it up? 13:21:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i think it was through adding intermediate orders 13:21:10 <Eddi|zuHause> but i have no real idea 13:21:24 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: reset it, see if it works 13:21:42 <Celestar> if it does, bad luck. if it doesn't I might have a chance debugging it? 13:21:44 <Belugas> are we this committing cast ? 13:21:47 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that helps 13:22:00 <Celestar> Belugas: ? 13:22:00 <glx> I'm writing the commit message 13:22:17 * Celestar would prefer static_cast over C-Style casts btw (= 13:22:30 <Belugas> [09:20] <Celestar> are we we committing this cast? <--- twisting the words in a different meaning ^_^ 13:22:33 <glx> indeed it looks "cleaner" 13:22:40 <Celestar> Belugas: oh :P 13:22:46 <Celestar> glx: yes and you spot it better 13:22:47 <peter1138> (int) is shorter. 13:22:55 <Celestar> going "BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP" in your brain 13:22:57 <peter1138> Nicer imho. 13:23:25 <glx> but count or cp->count are unsigned 13:23:45 <peter1138> I meant C-style as opposed to C++-Style... 13:24:01 <Celestar> mesa no tink so 13:24:01 <glx> OTTD is C++ now ;) 13:26:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14235 /trunk/src/cargopacket.cpp: -Fix (r14234): compilation with MSVC was broken 13:27:05 <Tekky> when working with classes and polymorphism, it is important to distinguish between static_cast and dynamic_cast. But I don't see any necessity to use this distinction with signed and unsigned integers, so I would personally prefer C-style casts in this situation. 13:27:15 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:28:06 <Noldo> Tekky: there are other types of casts too 13:28:46 <Tekky> Celestar: cargodest is also broken, isn't it? Isn't a trunk merge with cargodest necessary now? 13:29:15 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 13:29:24 <Noldo> problem with c-style cast is that it's sometimes reintrpret and sometimes static cast 13:29:45 <Celestar> Tekky: it's already done 13:30:04 <Noldo> (+const_cast) 13:30:47 <Tekky> Celestar: cool, thx 13:31:14 *** reldred is now known as reldred|gone 13:32:18 <glx> Celestar: no it's not :) 13:32:33 <Celestar> glx: er? 13:32:48 <Celestar> oh it's still pushing?! 13:32:52 <Celestar> finished :P 13:32:57 <glx> indeed ;) 13:33:26 * eekee is compiling r14234. jas just missed getting cargo dest? 13:33:28 <eekee> *has 13:33:32 <Tekky> Celestar: what does "pushing" mean? Is that the process of merging with trunk? 13:33:47 <Celestar> Tekky: pushing is publishing my local changes to a server, in this case, hg.openttd.org 13:33:55 <glx> it's like and avn commit 13:33:59 <glx> *svn 13:34:01 <Tekky> ah, thx 13:34:49 <Tekky> Celestar: Ah, so when you merge with trunk, you first do so locally and then update the server with the cargodest repository? 13:35:06 <Celestar> Tekky: yes. In hg, all commits are local only 13:35:14 <Celestar> push then moves it onto the server 13:35:17 <glx> there's not real hg repository :) 13:35:45 <glx> you could pull changes from Celestar's local copy directly 13:35:52 <TrueBrain> decentral, is the word :) 13:35:53 <Celestar> IF I run hg serve (= 13:36:13 <Celestar> TrueBrain: can we like run the compile farm on cargodest at 1600CEST? 13:36:14 <TrueBrain> Celestar: and, is it ready now? :p 13:36:15 <eekee> oh hg is like git in that way? 13:36:22 <Celestar> TrueBrain: ready yes. tested no 13:36:23 <Celestar> (= 13:36:32 <Celestar> TrueBrain: you can also just run it and see what fails to compile (= 13:36:36 <TrueBrain> Celestar: well, I can't schedule it, but I can trigger it now, or in 24 minutes .. what ever you want 13:36:46 <TrueBrain> yup 13:37:10 <Celestar> TrueBrain: in a few minutes 13:37:17 <TrueBrain> just let me know 13:37:31 <glx> there's still a warning (but it's in trunk too) 13:37:31 <Celestar> TrueBrain: You shall be informed 13:37:36 <Celestar> glx: which one? 13:37:48 <glx> peter1138 knows :) 13:37:52 <Celestar> ok 13:37:56 <Celestar> anything critical? 13:38:04 <glx> performance warning 13:38:11 * Celestar shrugs 13:38:37 <glx> InfoChangeResult to bool conversion 13:38:46 *** selle [~s@g221.ip7.netikka.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:53 <Celestar> file, line? 13:38:57 <glx> newgrf 13:39:17 <glx> http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/msvc_warning_14203.diff <-- this one 13:39:45 *** KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738cc92.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 13:39:58 <glx> but I won't commit it as peter1138 said he'll fix it in a better way 13:41:34 *** selle [~s@g221.ip7.netikka.fi] has joined #openttd 13:44:32 <Celestar> TrueBrain: you have a go for compile (= 13:44:55 <TrueBrain> yippie! 13:44:58 <TrueBrain> but now I don't want to :p 13:45:04 <glx> lol 13:45:40 *** Doorslammer is now known as Slammer 13:46:02 * Celestar hands TrueBrain a beer 13:46:06 * TrueBrain hits enter 13:47:42 *** Slammer is now known as roDoslammer 13:47:54 <TrueBrain> [2008-09-03 13:46:46] Created job 0000007 (hg://hg.openttd.org/developers/celestar/cargodest.hg/) 13:47:54 <TrueBrain> [2008-09-03 13:46:46] Created proc 0000048 (0000007, win64) 13:47:54 <TrueBrain> [2008-09-03 13:46:46][Thread 1] Starting proc 0000048 13:47:57 <TrueBrain> (and many more of those lines 13:49:16 <peter1138> So do we the pleasure of being able to do these things ourselves, or is our dedicated server TrueBrain/Rubidium only territory? 13:49:37 <TrueBrain> peter1138: the latter, of course 13:49:41 <TrueBrain> that is logic, not? 13:49:43 <TrueBrain> you expected more? 13:49:45 <TrueBrain> oh dear .. 13:49:46 <TrueBrain> :) 13:50:22 <TrueBrain> peter1138: as we can't do magic, it takes time to create such tools which all the developers understand, and can use .. for now we can't even produce nightlies on a nightly base 13:50:59 <TrueBrain> 230 seconds to produce a debian binary :) 13:51:31 <peter1138> 230 seconds... this server must suck. 13:51:38 <peter1138> Did you mean 23? 13:51:42 <TrueBrain> no, 230 seconds 13:51:45 <peter1138> :o 13:51:48 <peter1138> What is it doing? 13:51:50 <TrueBrain> you ever did: make mrproper; ./configure; make 13:51:53 <peter1138> Yes. 13:52:00 <TrueBrain> see how long it takes on your computer ;) (make -j1 btw) 13:52:38 <peter1138> About 2 minutes. 13:52:59 <peter1138> It's off at the moment so I can't double check :p 13:53:07 <Celestar> 2-3minutes here 13:53:17 <TrueBrain> so it sounds about right :) 13:53:26 <peter1138> 230 seconds is nearly 4 minutes. 13:53:27 <Tekky> are you talking about the new LeaseWeb server? 13:54:10 <TrueBrain> peter1138: yup :) About 20 seconds is wasted in unpacking a tar with all the required files, and an other 20 seconds to pick the binary and required files 13:54:18 <TrueBrain> an other 20 to boot up the system and shut it down 13:54:21 *** Zr40 [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #openttd 13:54:23 <TrueBrain> so all by all, it is not that slow ;) 13:54:37 <TrueBrain> Tekky: yes 13:54:50 <eekee> what do you call engines when a single purchase gets you an engine at both ends of the train? 13:55:42 <TrueBrain> Windows 64bit: 519 seconds 13:55:42 <glx> multihead 13:55:45 <eekee> thanks 13:55:46 <TrueBrain> now that is a lot ... stupid MSVC :( 13:55:57 <glx> windows startup is slow too 13:56:02 <TrueBrain> glx: 12 seconds 13:56:07 <peter1138> Feh, takes me 18 seconds for a full (debug) build ;) 13:56:12 <TrueBrain> glx: it beats Debian to it 13:56:25 <glx> strange 13:56:27 <TrueBrain> takes my own system here 2 minutes 42 seconds to do a full recompile 13:56:38 <TrueBrain> glx: that is called ripping away all unneeded shit from Windows :p 13:56:40 <glx> MSVC release builds are slow 13:56:45 <TrueBrain> it doesn't even boot the disk manager ... 13:57:34 <peter1138> Hmm, you run the compile as root? :o 13:57:38 <glx> I can configure and make win9x after starting win32 release build, and win9x is finished first 13:58:07 <TrueBrain> glx: sounds about right ;) 13:58:12 <TrueBrain> peter1138: how do you mean? 14:00:11 <TrueBrain> glx: in this case, 2 debian targets and source + docs compiled, in the time it took win64 to compile 14:00:31 <glx> not surprising 14:00:43 <TrueBrain> just very sad 14:01:09 <glx> but MSVC release builds are highly optimised 14:01:13 <glx> (sometimes too much) 14:01:30 <glx> gave some funny bugs 14:02:26 <TrueBrain> gcc -O3 is known to over optimize too 14:02:38 <TrueBrain> when you try that for OSX target, you have to start running ;) 14:02:44 <Celestar> not as bad as it used to 14:02:52 <Celestar> er .. doesn't gcc on OSX go up to -O5 ? 14:02:58 *** sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:03:04 <TrueBrain> Celestar: possible, I know -O4 was instant crash 14:03:13 <TrueBrain> so never checked any higher values :p 14:03:30 *** sunkan [sunkan@sunkan.bsnet.se] has joined #openttd 14:03:32 <Celestar> -O5 takes the whole OS with it 14:03:32 <hylje> -O999999999 14:03:43 <Celestar> -O6 then causes a quantum singularity 14:03:44 <TrueBrain> Celestar: at least makes it fast :p 14:03:50 *** shodan [user@ppp101-219.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Client Exiting] 14:03:54 <eekee> heee 14:04:04 <TrueBrain> 455 seconds for win32 ..a good 60 seconds faster than win64 .. 14:04:08 <glx> at least it showed that int x = a() << 16 | b(); doesn't always call a before b 14:04:21 <Celestar> glx: it's UB anyway 14:04:39 <Celestar> x = a() + b() <= There is no definition which function is called first. 14:04:40 <glx> yes and msvc optimisation showed it nicely 14:04:44 <TrueBrain> glx: you should never trust the order of such statements :) 14:05:00 <Celestar> don't make use of UBs (= 14:05:09 <glx> there was some stuff like that with Random() calls 14:05:25 <TrueBrain> Celestar: well, isn't NULL also undefined for C89 or so? 14:05:33 <Celestar> TrueBrain: undefined. 14:05:38 <Celestar> TrueBrain: not undefined behaviour 14:05:41 <TrueBrain> okay okay :) 14:05:45 <Celestar> read: implementation dependent 14:06:41 <TrueBrain> btw, it amazed me that MS is really so stupid to make ftell() ... smart? Well, that aint the word for it .. 14:07:13 <glx> fopen(file, "rb"); <-- the "b" flags has been added for MS ;) 14:09:39 <Celestar> b? 14:09:45 <TrueBrain> binary 14:10:21 <TrueBrain> ah, cargodest finished 14:10:28 <TrueBrain> (Well, the compile-farm part) 14:10:38 *** robotboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:10:39 <Celestar> nice (= 14:10:40 <eekee> British craftsmen have a derogatory phrase that could be applied to quite a lot of things in computing: "Trying to be clever." 14:10:43 <TrueBrain> http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest/h05a5279f/ 14:10:45 <TrueBrain> that should be it ;) 14:11:12 <Celestar> cool. Thanks TrueBrain 14:11:13 <TrueBrain> look, it even has a changelog! :p 14:11:39 *** roboboy [3aad2910@67.207.141.120] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 14:11:42 <glx> chemical/x-pdb <-- lol 14:11:54 <TrueBrain> lol :) 14:12:19 <glx> but these pdb work 14:12:32 <TrueBrain> peter1138: if you want to know, the server itself can compile OpenTTD in 35 seconds. But that is utilizing all 4 cores :) 14:13:00 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37DC99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:13:21 <TrueBrain> (which isn't the smartest idea, knowing the website and stuff do want CPU time too ;)) 14:13:47 <glx> and some servers want memory too ;) 14:14:00 <TrueBrain> memory there is plenty :p 14:14:36 <TrueBrain> (lighttpd is restricted to avoid it consuming ALL the memory) 14:14:48 <Gekz> make it use 3 cores then 14:14:48 <Gekz> :D 14:15:02 <glx> it just dies when it reaches the limit ? 14:15:29 <TrueBrain> the compile-farm does .. 3 targets compile at the same time, each at their own core :) 14:16:01 <TrueBrain> glx: yes, OOM-killer kicks in 14:16:07 <TrueBrain> (not much you can do about that in Linux land) 14:16:12 <eekee> wouldn't it get better cache usage by doing 1 task on 3 cores? 14:16:24 <Gekz> Linux seriously fails for memory handling 14:16:41 <glx> Gekz: I think windows is worse 14:16:48 <TrueBrain> eekee: VirtualBox is used, so no ;) 14:16:50 <hylje> newsflash 14:16:53 <Gekz> you cant do anything on Windows to prove that it fails 14:16:54 <hylje> everything fails 14:16:58 <Gekz> it doesnt let you get to that point 14:17:06 <eekee> haha 14:17:25 <eekee> mem handling is generally impossible to do well in a multi-tasking environment 14:18:09 *** mikl [~mikl@cpe.ge-0-2-0-812.0x50c774be.boanqu1.customer.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:27:58 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:36:58 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g230132237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:40:41 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-153-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 14:42:49 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:43:53 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83E77.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:46:15 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B8421B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 14:46:15 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 14:46:34 <Celestar> TrueBrain: no OSX? 14:46:43 <glx> no VM for it 14:46:59 * dih cries 14:47:03 <Celestar> :( 14:47:05 <Celestar> self-compile? 14:47:06 * Eddi|zuHause cheers 14:47:07 <Eddi|zuHause> :p 14:47:12 <dih> NO 14:47:13 <dih> not good 14:47:15 <dih> nonofair 14:47:27 <glx> tell that to apple ;) 14:48:17 <TrueBrain> Celestar: OSX sucks 14:48:21 <TrueBrain> we tried like 10 ways already 14:48:26 <TrueBrain> and .. OSX 10.5 sucks 14:48:52 <Celestar> heh 14:48:53 <Celestar> ok 14:52:38 <dih> 10.4? 14:53:01 <Gekz> erm 14:53:02 <eekee> I 'spect OS X requires hardware opengl 14:53:07 <Gekz> you cant cross compile? 14:53:10 <Gekz> fail. 14:53:13 <Gekz> MacOS X must die. 14:53:18 <dih> nope 14:53:30 <Rubidium> Gekz: ofcourse you can cross-compile... but those binaries won't boot on Intel OSX 10.5 14:53:41 <TrueBrain> OSX is nice .. just that they dropped their GCC patches is less nice 14:53:53 <eekee> they can't do that 14:54:08 <Gekz> they just did 14:54:25 * eekee smells big trouble brewing 14:54:35 <Gekz> I'm going to sleep 14:54:39 <Gekz> Tag. 14:54:44 <eekee> bai 14:55:14 *** jni_ [~geetee@cs181040004.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:05:33 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C0CD.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:05:51 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485C814.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:08:26 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:09:48 *** fjb [~frank@p5485F7C2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:12:39 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:13:25 *** |Bastiaan| [~Bastiaan@77.60.199.138] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:15:51 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:16:10 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:17:54 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 15:21:55 <eekee> hmm, I could use a way to make a train go to depot only after it's finished loading/unloading 15:22:17 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14236 /branches/noai/ (94 files in 16 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14194:14235 15:22:44 <eekee> or to go to depot (and stop) only when it comes to the service at .. order 15:28:02 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:44 *** yorick [~Yorick@82-171-205-190.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 15:29:03 * yorick wonders if it's possible to switch password encription to sha 15:29:13 <yorick> s/encryption/hashing 15:29:55 <yorick> someone told me he used a "publicly available openttd password cracker" to steal company passwords 15:30:00 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:30:06 <yorick> and he actually got the company passwords from somewhere 15:30:45 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:31:04 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 15:31:26 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:31:55 <blathijs> yorick: You mean a server admin that recovered passwords of clients? 15:32:00 <yorick> no 15:32:33 <yorick> some absolute stranger that said he had used a publicly available openttd password cracker to steal the passwords that were used on the server... 15:32:41 <yorick> and yes, he got them correctly 15:33:18 *** roDoslammer [Doorslamme@PIPP-p-203-54-115-124.prem.tmns.net.au] has left #openttd [] 15:33:27 <peter1138> From what? 15:33:35 <yorick> how do you mean? 15:34:14 *** lobster_MB [~michielbr@5350C1D1.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:34:35 <eekee> yorick: you mean he picked some random server and was able to get in? 15:34:43 <yorick> yes 15:34:49 <eekee> erk 15:34:58 <yorick> he got the company passwords and the server password 15:36:25 <TrueBrain> dih: stop toying with yorick, he doesn't like it :p 15:36:37 <eekee> rofl 15:36:58 <yorick> well, I know the tools to bruteforce openttd exist 15:37:03 <dih> ? 15:37:04 <eekee> glibc SHA1* functions don't look too different to the MD* functions 15:37:08 <TrueBrain> dih: I was kidding :) 15:37:36 <TinoDidriksen> If there's access to the hashes, it's easy to do lookups in rainbow tables...but why would he have access to those? 15:37:44 <dih> i just noticed :-P 15:38:00 <yorick> I dont think he had access to the hashes 15:38:04 <dih> yorick: use ap+, remove the rcon password and use !rcon ;-) 15:38:12 <TrueBrain> what is sent over the network nowedays? md5? 15:38:18 <peter1138> Switching hash does not help against bruteforce at all. 15:38:21 <yorick> seeded md5 15:38:29 <dih> not for rcon password 15:38:29 <TinoDidriksen> Salted, you mean. 15:38:31 <dih> that is plain text 15:38:40 <TrueBrain> what is the plain text for: 60b725f10c9c85c70d97880dfe8191b3 15:38:41 <yorick> yes, he didn't try the rcon password 15:38:49 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:39:11 <TrueBrain> (hint, use www.google.com) 15:39:38 <DaleStan> Are there not an infinite number of plaintexts that produce that hash? 15:39:58 <TrueBrain> DaleStan: depending on your string length, but there is one simple plaintext solution for this string 15:39:59 <peter1138> Without a limit on input length, yes. 15:40:03 <TinoDidriksen> Yes, but you know passwords are usually not very long, so easy to make tables. 15:40:15 <TrueBrain> (and in fact, the md5sums of all dictonary words are findable via google) 15:40:30 <peter1138> To get the hash you need to either read OpenTTD's memory, or snoop the network. 15:40:35 <TrueBrain> just to show you how uncool md5 is, when you use plaintext words which can be found in a dictonary 15:40:35 <peter1138> Easier to bruteforce. 15:40:38 <TinoDidriksen> Hence why salting with longer unique strings is very important these days. 15:40:51 <peter1138> I do not use secure passwords for multiplayer games... 15:41:09 <dih> yorick: your's and rortom's bot can be used to bruteforce easily 15:41:10 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I sure hope nobody is using his uber-password for MP games :s 15:41:19 <peter1138> TrueBrain, you'd be surprised... 15:41:22 <dih> i am so not happy with that bot 15:41:28 <TrueBrain> peter1138: I always am .. makes me very sad :( 15:41:40 <yorick> dih: if someone writes a thing to hash the passwords, yes 15:41:51 <dih> yorick: rcon is not hashed 15:41:56 <dih> company password is 15:41:58 <yorick> yes 15:42:12 <yorick> how would you check rcon password correctness 15:42:18 <yorick> it has no error if it's incorrect 15:42:21 <dih> besids the hashing is not _that_ difficult to rewrite into a python bot 15:42:33 <dih> rcon <pass> echo 1 15:42:33 <yorick> salting seems to be 15:43:00 <TinoDidriksen> CHAP with SHA1 is a good start. 15:43:04 <yorick> that'd require a timeout every time, dih 15:43:06 <dih> yorick: just read the openttd code, & translate it to python 15:43:20 <yorick> python strings are immutable 15:43:23 <dih> a timeout is not an issue 15:43:47 <peter1138> Doesn't CHAP require the password to be stored in plaintext? 15:43:48 <yorick> it takes 1 second for each failed try 15:44:04 <yorick> python has no string bitwise stuff 15:45:01 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C0CD.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:45:41 <SmatZ> does client ever receive any password, even in hashed form? 15:45:46 <yorick> no 15:45:50 <dih> no 15:45:53 <yorick> only way is to bruteforce 15:46:00 <dih> all it gets is the servers unique_id 15:46:00 <SmatZ> no ... so how could he "dehash" it? 15:46:10 <yorick> dih: and genmap seed 15:46:26 <dih> and that is _so_ hard to get 15:46:27 <TinoDidriksen> Point of CHAP is that what is sent over the wire is not possible to reuse. If you add salting with a known salt on both sides then you don't need to store in plain text either. 15:46:36 <dih> if the client can hash it's own stuff 15:46:41 <dih> why can not a python client 15:46:50 *** death_ [~death@a89-183-20-130.net-htp.de] has joined #openttd 15:46:57 <TinoDidriksen> Python can. There's plenty of modules for that. 15:47:06 <Belugas> one of them is called pepper 15:47:19 <TrueBrain> yorick: the passwords used on the server he supposenly broke into, were they dictonary words? 15:47:51 <yorick> TB: I dunno, I think they were partly dutch, partly english with some numbers mixed in 15:48:09 <dih> so 8-12 chars 15:48:11 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff40a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:48:51 <TrueBrain> yorick: then that would be a no ;) 15:49:20 * dih starts looking in his dict to find a half dutch half english word with digits in the middle 15:49:30 <eekee> wouldn't better encryption slow the bruteforce? 15:49:44 <yorick> digits in the end 15:49:47 <yorick> not the middle 15:49:50 <SmatZ> if it was his server, he could set company passwords to whatever he wanted ;) 15:50:13 <dih> anyway - the rcon is not encrypted 15:50:13 <yorick> SmatZ: well, but someone breaking in to a normal server is a disaster 15:50:23 <yorick> dih: he didn't crack the rcon 15:50:29 <dih> so there is no need to discuss the encryption on someone hacking the rcon password 15:50:38 <dih> yorick: as far as you know, he did not 15:50:47 <Ammler> it might be better to store company passwords plain and tell that 15:50:58 <TrueBrain> yorick: well, if he is for any real, he comes in here and tell us how he did it 15:51:04 <Ammler> so they could be saved and nobody has to worry about. 15:51:46 <yorick> dih: cracking the rcon password would take approximatly 2.77777778 à 10^58 hours 15:51:58 <yorick> assuming a timeout of 1 second 15:52:03 <dih> yorick: that's what you guess... yes 15:52:22 <TrueBrain> yorick: why a timeout of 1 second? You can do much much more requests per second 15:52:29 <dih> yes 15:52:37 <yorick> TrueBrain: only if the server responds, it is correct 15:52:38 <TrueBrain> introduction to bruteforce: you send many many many tries per second, with the command: terminate server 15:52:42 <TrueBrain> when you notice the server is gone 15:52:45 <TrueBrain> go back 5 minutes in your tries 15:52:47 <TrueBrain> and try it slower 15:52:48 <dih> yorick: 15:52:53 <dih> rcon <pass1> echo 1 15:52:57 <TrueBrain> that wy, you never have to wait for a server reply 15:52:57 <dih> rcon <pass2> echo 2 15:53:01 <dih> rcon <pass3> echo 3 15:53:04 <dih> ;-) 15:53:11 <yorick> heh 15:53:17 <dih> aye 15:53:23 <yorick> notfair 15:53:25 <dih> LOL 15:53:31 * dih pats yorick on the head ;-) 15:53:32 <TrueBrain> what dih says works too, if you can monitor the result 15:53:43 <yorick> TrueBrain: you can 15:53:45 <TrueBrain> (we did my trick over SSH :p) 15:53:46 <dih> you will sooner or later get a result 15:54:20 <Ammler> dih: but the problem is not yoricks bot, it would be openttd :-) 15:54:22 <yorick> the server console would get flooded first 15:54:48 <yorick> and possibly an auto-ban after 10 failed tries 15:54:53 <yorick> or a time-limit 15:55:04 <dih> Ammler: the bot makes it a lot easier to start brute forcing 15:55:33 <yorick> dih: *someone* created remote admin tool that uses rcon, too 15:55:41 <yorick> in autoit 15:56:07 <dih> yes - i saw 15:56:13 <yorick> lets not put in the fact I helped him out 15:56:15 <dih> yucky yuck yuck 15:56:38 <dih> well - those things were bound to show up sooner or later 15:56:53 <yorick> first, he sent rcon commands over UDP and expected a result :-P 15:57:14 <yorick> then, he sent the rcon commands ofer TCP and instantly closing the connection, still expecting a result :P 15:57:26 <mortal`> lol, that's horrible yorick 15:57:46 <dih> that is quite cute 15:58:07 <dih> it sounds like he tried to follow an rcon tool for like quake3 15:58:16 <dih> and tried turning that into tcp 15:58:19 <yorick> those server error codes should get a meaning in console ;) 15:59:01 <yorick> error 10054, client closed connection, how are the normal openttd hackers supposed to know what that means 15:59:02 <dih> there should be a way to tell if something is a bot or a real client 15:59:19 <dih> yorick: grepping the code? 15:59:31 <yorick> more like grepping head 16:00:09 <dih> on me way home 16:00:09 <dih> laters 16:00:15 <yorick> good luck 16:00:47 <yorick> try not to kill too many deers on the way home 16:04:32 <TinoDidriksen> There is by definition no way to tell who's a bot and who's a real client, especially since bad guys won't follow any such rules, or will swich as they see fit. 16:06:03 <yorick> Tino: unless desync check moves to server 16:06:39 <TinoDidriksen> They'll just keep synced. 16:07:14 <TinoDidriksen> Every client is by definition hostile, until proven otherwise by authentication. 16:08:04 <TrueBrain> TinoDidriksen: authentication alone is never enough 16:08:10 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 16:08:40 <yorick> TinoDidriksen: how would they keep synced without being a client? 16:08:44 <TinoDidriksen> Well true there should be "idiot safeguards", but if someone auths as super-admin, they can't really be denied such access. 16:08:55 <yorick> I think a client would be something that keeps sync 16:08:58 <TrueBrain> TinoDidriksen: I agree :) 16:09:00 <TinoDidriksen> Build a bot on top of the client... 16:09:12 <yorick> then it is still a client 16:09:16 <yorick> with a bot on top 16:09:43 <murray> riding the client like a wild horse 16:09:49 <TrueBrain> whoha! 16:09:56 <yorick> or the other way around, building a client on top of a bot 16:10:00 <eekee> YEHAW! 16:10:04 <yorick> which is possible, tho 16:10:18 <yorick> if something can act as a client, it can also act as a server 16:10:35 <TinoDidriksen> Point is that you cannot tell which is which. You can request clients/bots identify themselves, but can't really trust that. 16:12:44 <yorick> no, why would you need that 16:13:00 <yorick> "never trust a client" is the fundamental rule of the openttd protocol 16:16:41 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:17:00 <TrueBrain> yorick: only for OpenTTD? 16:17:31 <yorick> for every other open-source-app protocol 16:17:37 <Belugas> "never trust a client" is the key rule to almost every business 16:17:52 <yorick> closed source and real life is also recommended 16:17:54 <Belugas> add "never trust a clerk" too... 16:18:19 <hylje> never trust anyone 16:18:34 * yorick remembers good ol' multiplayer flash games 16:18:53 <yorick> where people could not die, and fly with the speed of light 16:19:56 <TrueBrain> for fun, talk to bzFlags developers 16:20:07 <TrueBrain> the amount of 'cheats' for that game, are amazing .. 16:20:10 <TrueBrain> and it is so easy ... 16:20:16 <yorick> then shot you down through a wall with a mega gun that sounds like an exploding elephant 16:20:31 <eekee> rofl ^^ 16:24:09 <Ammler> are those debian packs at the binary repo up2date? 16:24:25 <yorick> if they're at 0.6.2, then yes 16:24:56 <peter1138> Never trust a yorick. 16:25:10 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: cheats? 16:25:11 <yorick> seems like the stables are 16:25:16 <Ammler> I meant those: http://binaries.openttd.org/custom/cargodest/h05a5279f/ 16:25:59 <Ammler> ah, they install openttd 16:26:00 <blathijs> Ammler: I guess so, I think that autobuilding of .debs worked 16:26:09 <blathijs> Ammler: But the package is still called "openttd" 16:26:23 <blathijs> I'm working on changing that to "openttd-branchname" as we speak :-) 16:26:45 <Ammler> well, just wondeing, if we could confuse a debian user 16:27:15 <Ammler> because never saw those packs before in nightly archive 16:27:28 <yorick> Ammler: y0U 3a8 confuse 3872590n3 16:27:37 <Ammler> and personally, I would no like to have them installed, but debian user might like that. 16:27:57 <blathijs> Ammler: No, building nightly .debs is a feature of the new compile farm 16:28:15 <Ammler> can you have both at same time? 16:28:19 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: stuff like: going through walls 16:28:23 <Ammler> stable and nightly builds? 16:28:40 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: flying, too? 16:28:41 <yorick> TrueBrain: with guns that sound like exploding elephants? 16:28:43 <blathijs> Ammler: I'm hoping to just get a repository, so you can add a line to sources.list and then just apt-get install openttd-cargodest 16:29:03 <blathijs> Ammler: Not currently, but I have been thinking about that. Should be possible, I guess. 16:29:15 <TrueBrain> Ammler: the debs are new, yes 16:29:15 <eekee> cargodest is still a branch? What was that about merging earlier? 16:29:39 <Ammler> well, as debian users are Freaks, they should know what they do ;-) 16:29:59 <TrueBrain> Ammler: Gentoo users are Freaks 16:30:02 <TrueBrain> Debian users are stupid 16:30:05 <TrueBrain> big difference 16:30:13 <yorick> Ammler: you can even confuse cats 16:30:14 <eekee> ubuntu users are stupid :ß 16:30:25 <TrueBrain> eekee: granted 16:30:29 <Eddi|zuHause> eekee: it doesn't just happen from one second to the next just because someone said "we should merge that soon" 16:30:31 <Ammler> isn't that the same? 16:30:48 <eekee> Eddi|zuHause: no someone actually said they were merging 16:30:48 <yorick> Ammler: cats don't use debian 16:31:12 <eekee> cats use source mage if they have the patience, gentoo otherwise 16:31:45 <Osai> hey guys 16:31:47 <eekee> (perhaps) 16:31:48 <eekee> hello 16:31:56 <Osai> compilation fails on mac os x 10.5.4 16:32:05 <Eddi|zuHause> eekee: that was a merge the other way round 16:32:19 <Eddi|zuHause> merging recent trunk changes into cargodest 16:33:22 <eekee> Eddi|zuHause: Oh I see ^^' 16:34:57 <Osai> nargh, it doesn't 16:37:12 <TrueBrain> lol @ Osai 16:37:18 <Eddi|zuHause> gnah... multi tile "waypoints" don't work properly... 16:37:20 <Osai> sorry ;P 16:37:31 <Eddi|zuHause> all trains want to go through the same track 16:37:36 <Osai> it was something weird, I don't want to talk about it ^^ 16:37:36 <Eddi|zuHause> and ignore the other tracks 16:38:05 <Tekky> To whom it may concern: You may now enter "cargodest" in the OpenTTD wiki to reach the appropriate page. I just created a redirect page. 16:38:41 <mortal`> nifty, thanks tekky 16:38:44 <TrueBrain> YES! My life is now complete :) Tnx Tekky! :) 16:38:50 <Tekky> lol 16:39:13 <Tekky> well, it is a lot easier than typing "passenger and cargo destinations" :) 16:39:49 <TrueBrain> yup 16:41:47 <peter1138> I just go to it via the 'Recent Changes' page ;) 16:42:19 <TrueBrain> haha :) 16:42:28 <TrueBrain> I tried Random Pages 16:42:29 <TrueBrain> not so lucky 16:42:38 <TrueBrain> did found a lot of crap 16:47:45 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F6F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14237 /trunk/os/debian/ (control control.in rules): 16:48:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Feature [Debian]: Allow the Debian packaging to change the package name of the resulting package. 16:48:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - The name can be changed at build time, by changing the package name in debian/changelog. 16:48:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - This will allow packages like openttd-svn or openttd-cargodest packages to be built. 16:54:03 *** death_ [~death@a89-183-20-130.net-htp.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:35 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-2-131-220.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 16:57:15 <fjb> Eddi|zuHause: You are expecting too much. 16:57:31 <Eddi|zuHause> i what? 16:57:49 <TrueBrain> he said: you are expecting too much 16:57:49 <TrueBrain> :p 16:58:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even have an idea what i am expecting... 16:58:22 <fjb> You expected some people to find a link a posting above. 16:58:29 <TrueBrain> haha, sounds bad ;) 16:58:54 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-228-27.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 17:00:46 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:03:01 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 17:04:05 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-67-2.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:34 <fjb> Hm, I guess I need to find a good free email account. 17:04:35 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-72-100.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:05:47 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:05:58 <Wolf01> hello 17:05:58 <TrueBrain> I have one :) But you can't have it ;) 17:06:09 <Wolf01> what, biscuits? 17:06:17 <TrueBrain> hi Wolf01 17:06:29 <Wolf01> hi :) 17:08:17 <fjb> Hello Wolf01 17:08:27 <Wolf01> hi fjb 17:08:36 <fjb> TrueBrain: Shame on you. 17:09:10 <TrueBrain> why? If you have my account, I can't mail :( 17:09:42 <fjb> But the account of a true brain would be perfect. 17:13:54 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest5096 17:13:55 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-67-2.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 17:15:10 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:16:21 <OdwallaBongwater> fjb, gmail? 17:16:58 <TrueBrain> OdwallaBongwater: he was talking about a GOOD free email account 17:17:06 <TrueBrain> I don't think gmail falls under that category 17:17:18 <TrueBrain> (well, or you think your Privacy isn't important, then you might classify it under good) 17:17:37 * fjb doesn't think either. But could be ok for just a fun account. 17:17:41 <OdwallaBongwater> never had a problem with gmail, dont quite see what you're talking about 17:18:10 <fjb> Big Google is watching you. 17:18:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: matthijs * r14238 /trunk/os/debian/ (21 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed) 17:18:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Change [Debian]: Update Debian packaging files to the latest official Debian version. 17:18:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Packaging files are now identical to those of the official 0.6.2-1 (or, 17:18:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: r11138 in the collab-maint subversion repository), with the following 17:18:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: exceptions: 17:18:16 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Desktop files are removed, since openttd trunk installs them already. 17:18:17 <OdwallaBongwater> riiiight 17:18:18 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Changes regarding package names from r14237 are preserved. 17:18:22 <TrueBrain> OdwallaBongwater: you do know the word 'privacy' I hope 17:18:23 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 17:18:29 <TrueBrain> I know it is a bit snowed under with Google 17:18:31 <TrueBrain> but it really exists 17:18:41 <OdwallaBongwater> I do 17:18:54 <OdwallaBongwater> I dont see quite what you're getting at though 17:19:23 <blathijs> Rubidium: TrueBrain: You could try to add the following just before the debian/rules binary call in the build-debs process of the compile farm, to change the package name: 17:19:44 <blathijs> rm debian/changelog 17:19:44 <blathijs> dch --create --package openttd-svn -v 0.7.0~svn-1 " * Nightly build" 17:19:45 <TrueBrain> well, you might want to read that thing you signed when you signed up 17:19:49 *** Guest5096 [~Dale@pool-71-98-72-100.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:20:01 <OdwallaBongwater> I guess I might 17:20:20 *** OdwallaBongwater is now known as nckomodo 17:20:42 *** yorick [~Yorick@82-171-205-190.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Quit: Poef!] 17:20:51 <fjb> So what counts as a good free mail account today? Hard to find any. 17:21:06 <blathijs> Rubidium: TrueBrain: Or perhaps even "-v 0.7.0~svn.r`svnversion`" to get the svn revision in the version number 17:21:16 * blathijs is off to a BBQ 17:21:28 <TrueBrain> enjoy blathijs! 17:21:46 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@129.187.69.65] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:21:51 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:24:54 <nckomodo> TrueBrain I'm not seeing anything that should be cause for alarm, mind pointing it out to me 17:26:10 <TrueBrain> the fact that they index the content of all your mails 17:26:16 <TrueBrain> in order 'to supply you with more direct adverts'? 17:26:21 <nckomodo> meh 17:26:31 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 17:26:40 <nckomodo> oh god its Dred_furst 17:27:29 <Dred_furst> haha how random is that 17:27:34 <Dred_furst> ANOTHER GOON APPEARS 17:27:50 <nckomodo> shit where 17:29:32 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@e179090235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 17:29:32 *** Zahl [~Zahl@g230132237.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:32 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 17:44:15 *** LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 17:52:44 *** Yeggs-work is now known as Yeggstry 17:58:19 *** sono [~sono@78.46.42.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:19 <Kloopy> peter1138: I just got a crash on the cargodests binary build. I was looking at a treeview window and just as I went to click, the last passenger was loaded on to a train. When I clicked my mouse, it was on the space where the + was just showing before. It crashed as soon as I clicked. 18:05:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14239 /trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2267]: The engine-purchase-list-sorter doubled running-cost and halfed capacity of double-headed engines. 18:05:15 <Belugas> i think this crash would be better answered by Celestar, Kloopy 18:05:32 <Kloopy> I agree, but he's not here and I wanted to put it down in writing before I forgot. 18:05:39 <Kloopy> When I see him next, I'll give the same text to him. :D 18:17:43 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:23:43 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:23:43 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 18:25:55 <Eddi|zuHause> : 18:26:00 <Eddi|zuHause> openttd: /home/johannes/spiele/OpenTTDx/paxdest/src/autoreplace_cmd.cpp:376: CommandCost ReplaceChain(Vehicle**, uint32, bool, bool*): Assertion `GetNextUnit(new_head) == __null' failed. 18:26:47 *** GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:27:56 <Eddi|zuHause> AAAAAH... some idiot switched autosave off!! 18:27:57 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:06 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 18:29:12 <dih> oi 18:29:31 <Eddi|zuHause> my last savegame is from 12:00 :( 18:29:40 <dih> Rubidium, with all these bots hanging around, which can join a game as an apparent client 18:29:48 <Eddi|zuHause> that's like a year ago (x8) 18:29:58 <dih> would it not be an idea to add a flag to each client 18:30:22 <dih> and set it to false when a client sends the sync packet? 18:30:46 <dih> or does the client decide weather to 'desync' 18:31:53 <peter1138> Or actually just not allow them. 18:32:17 <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: how the hell did you manage to trigger that assertion 18:32:20 <dih> peter1138, for that one has to know if a 'client' is a client or a bot 18:32:41 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: i can reproduce it in my build when i replace wagons that have no engine 18:32:56 <Eddi|zuHause> trying to find a clean trunk build ;) 18:33:22 <frosch123> wagons without engine, ok... 18:34:05 <frosch123> is that a feature of your custom build, or did I missed a trunk feature 18:34:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think any of my patches changed anything regarding autoreplace 18:35:00 <dih> is there any info only a valid client sends to the server? 18:35:00 <peter1138> Mass-update button in the depot window? 18:35:03 *** GoneWacko [~GoneWacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 18:35:09 <peter1138> That'll upgrade wagons without an engine, won't it? 18:35:42 <dih> or rather, only a valid client can 'know' 18:35:48 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, crashes in clean trunk r14128, too 18:36:15 <frosch123> I thought it is not possible to upgrade wagons only 18:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> peter1138: yes 18:36:27 <peter1138> frosch123, so a new rewrite coming up? ;) 18:36:27 *** Reemo [Dr_Jekyll@p57B0CF37.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 18:36:54 <Eddi|zuHause> i always use that button 18:36:57 <peter1138> dih, actually I thought the network connection chain of events was forced. Apparently not. 18:37:01 <peter1138> *enforced. 18:37:09 <peter1138> i.e. connect, download map, etc... 18:37:14 <dih> well... yes 18:37:19 <dih> the bots do exactly that 18:37:29 <dih> and then desync is still determined by the client 18:37:36 <dih> which the bots simply skip 18:38:13 <dih> so i am hoping to find something even a valid spectator sends to the server, so that the server can determin if something is a bot or not 18:38:22 <dih> and that should then be something only a real ottd client can 'know' 18:38:49 <SmatZ> hmm 18:38:51 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: well, i could live with those not being upgraded at all 18:38:56 <SmatZ> when you modify OTTD to work as bot 18:39:03 <SmatZ> you will send correct sync values 18:39:08 <dih> yes 18:39:13 <dih> that is true 18:39:20 <dih> but not if it's some python bot :-P 18:39:24 <peter1138> Any solution put in place can be worked around. 18:39:27 <SmatZ> and you can place SendChatMessage("SPAM SPAM SPAM") to the main loop anyway 18:40:25 <dih> how about adding thresholds? 18:40:33 <peter1138> Can bots bypass a server password? 18:40:44 <dih> i.e. kick / ban client after x something in one month 18:40:58 <peter1138> Doesn't a desync happen way before then? 18:41:05 <peter1138> Well, unless it's a modified client... 18:41:21 <dih> peter1138, problem is, when the server asks/waits for the password, the bot can still try to bruteforce the rcon password 18:42:06 <dih> and the connection is kept open 18:42:29 <dih> that is how those dodas did the spaming without being connected 18:43:12 <dih> so something extra would be pretty good 18:43:51 <dih> a threshold of 3 invalid rcon passwords from same ip = kick, 5 = ban 18:43:58 <dih> (of course configurable) 18:44:22 <dih> same with server password 18:44:40 <dih> and not to accept any packet from a client if the server is waiting for a server / company password 18:44:58 <dih> (*any packet = rcon / chat / etc) 18:45:11 <SmatZ> http://paste.openttd.org/76344 so this? 18:45:22 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:45:25 <SmatZ> or maybe even 18:45:26 <SmatZ> if (cs->status != STATUS_ACTIVE) { 18:45:41 <dih> not only that 18:45:41 <yorick> < dih> a threshold of 3 invalid rcon passwords from same ip = kick, 5 = ban <-- how are you planning to reach 5 if it kicks on 3? 18:45:52 <dih> rejoin 18:45:54 <dih> uh 18:45:55 <dih> wow 18:45:58 <dih> odd 18:46:14 <yorick> ? 18:46:22 <dih> i.e. as long as the server is running, memorize each invalid rcon attemt 18:46:27 <dih> on a per ip basis 18:46:37 <yorick> not the per ip solution 18:46:39 <Eddi|zuHause> and ip-range 18:46:42 <yorick> that changes far too often 18:46:52 <dih> yorick: it's a bot 18:46:56 <yorick> (proxies should be possible too, only they need to be made) 18:47:26 <dih> besides, ip's dont change as often as you can try to send passwords in a single second 18:47:47 * SmatZ thinks about botnets... 18:47:51 <yorick> SmatZ: doesn't matter, I'll just connect and then bruteforce 18:47:58 <yorick> (@http://paste.openttd.org/76344) 18:48:15 <dih> hence the threshold 18:48:18 <SmatZ> yorick: yeah, but now you can bruteforce passworded server 18:48:33 <yorick> I'll bruteforce the password first :-P 18:48:40 <dih> bruteforce will take years if you 1. get kicked after 3 tries, 2. have to change your ip after 5 18:49:03 *** Dred_furst [~Dred_furs@user-54470bf2.wfd82a.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:13 * SmatZ remembers applying wrong password at coop several times 18:49:21 <yorick> dih: yea, lets introduce an ip table, maybe just instant ban instead of kick first 18:49:26 <dih> yes - just not _that_ often SmatZ :-P 18:49:27 <SmatZ> maybe 100 would suffice against bruteforcing 18:49:32 <dih> at least not in a row or? 18:49:50 <dih> yorick, hence configureable 18:50:02 <dih> so invalid_password_kick = 0 18:50:07 <dih> invalid_password_ban = 1 18:51:00 <dih> reset the counter on success 18:51:06 <yorick> maybe the banning system is flawed too 18:51:13 <dih> and remove the ip from being memorized after ban 18:51:23 <yorick> some people just get a proxy... 18:51:51 <yorick> some can change ip 18:52:52 <dih> yes - just not as fast as one can send packets 18:53:16 <dih> it's not perfect, it's a start 18:55:23 <frosch123> he, you cannot open the autoreplace gui without a single engine 18:55:37 <yorick> now that is good :) 18:56:15 <yorick> how about engines being autoreplaced also get autoreplaced when bought? 18:57:16 <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: yeah, i noticed :p 18:57:17 <peter1138> Write the patch for it. 18:58:12 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sad now, i lost half a day worth of playing... :( 18:58:30 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't understand why autosave was off 18:58:37 <Eddi|zuHause> it was on weekly before... 18:58:50 <yorick> half a day isn't that muhc 18:58:55 <yorick> only a few real seconds ;) 18:59:02 * yorick pats eddi 18:59:21 <Eddi|zuHause> how can i kickban yorick? 18:59:31 <yorick> ? 19:00:07 <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: You can kick him by tricking him into saying 19:00:16 <Prof_Frink> !password 19:00:16 *** Prof_Frink was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.] 19:00:17 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad46219.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 19:00:55 <hylje> that's just kick however 19:01:03 <yorick> or !players 19:01:03 <Prof_Frink> Mm. 19:01:05 *** mode/#openttd [+b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138 19:01:05 *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by peter1138 [Like this?] 19:01:20 *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*Yorick@*.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by peter1138 19:01:25 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:01:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, that'd work 19:01:30 <yorick> yeah, like that 19:03:38 <dih> would SEND_COMMAND(PACKET_CLIENT_ACK)(); not be a good start? 19:03:53 <yorick> whare is that fore? 19:04:33 <dih> it's not 'fore' anything :-P 19:04:50 <nappe1> peter1138: this is quite hard... :D (Playing Nappe1-2008/05 build right now...) I had to in final testing adjust loan interval to £2500... with £10000 it was just suicide to company to be founded. :D 19:04:55 <dih> it's _for_ making sure one could find out if a client is a bot or not 19:05:37 <Prof_Frink> dih: openttd capcha? 19:05:50 <dih> ? 19:06:10 <Prof_Frink> Finding out if someone's a bot. 19:06:20 <peter1138> nappe1, pardon? 19:06:27 <peter1138> I have no idea what you're talking about. 19:07:19 <yorick> dih: where is it for? 19:07:58 <dih> Prof_Frink, yes, i am hoping to be able to distinguish 19:08:03 <dih> server side of course ;-) 19:08:42 <yorick> how? 19:09:01 <Prof_Frink> kittenauth! 19:09:14 <dih> yorick: I DONT KNOW YET 19:09:14 <peter1138> Born_Acorn! NewKittenAuth! 19:09:15 <dih> ;-) 19:09:25 <yorick> HEH 19:09:45 <yorick> you'd need something that requires human intervention and is not solvable by noai ais 19:10:00 <Prof_Frink> KITTENS. 19:10:06 <hylje> bunnies 19:10:13 <yorick> as soon as you know, tell me, maybe I shall accept the challenge 19:10:15 <yorick> RABBITS 19:10:29 <Eddi|zuHause> rail networks! 19:10:30 <hylje> ponies 19:10:34 *** larsemil [~larsemil@192-173-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se] has joined #openttd 19:10:50 <dih> yes, lay rails spelling out the password :-D 19:10:57 <yorick> possible 19:11:03 <larsemil> i get this error when trying to connect to multiplayer: dbg: [net] Sync error detected! 19:11:04 <yorick> detecting patterns 19:11:11 <hylje> scriptable 19:11:19 <yorick> larsemil: what version, what server? 19:11:32 <larsemil> yorick: 0.6.2 my brother on a 100/100 connection 19:11:34 <dih> issue is only, that you have to already distinguish between spectator and bot 19:11:41 <yorick> try upgrading 19:11:53 <yorick> dih: and how would the server see if a password is correct? 19:11:56 <larsemil> yorick: then i will not be able to play with them. 19:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> there was some site that had maths formulas as captcha 19:12:08 <yorick> make them upgrade aswell 19:12:09 <dih> yorick, I DONT KNOW YET ;-) 19:12:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and i was like: "well, those are actually EASIER to solve for a bot" 19:12:25 <yorick> Eddi: not if they are IN a captcha 19:12:48 <yorick> only the rapidshare cats n dogs captcha is genious 19:12:57 <yorick> but I cant solve it myself :-P 19:13:00 <larsemil> yorick: well we are in the middle of a game 19:13:05 <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: well, it was simple latex output, so you could easily have OCR'ed the formula 19:13:07 <yorick> larsemil: then save 19:13:17 <Eddi|zuHause> and then pipe it into a CAS 19:13:29 <larsemil> well it is the latest stable version, shouldnt that do? 19:13:44 <yorick> no :-p 19:14:05 <yorick> nightlies without newgrfs are the only thing more stable 19:14:08 <nckomodo> the thing with math problems is captchas is more of an obscurity thing 19:14:52 <Eddi|zuHause> larsemil: some desync issues can be solved by saving, restarting the server, and loading the savegame again 19:15:20 <yorick> dih: just don't come up with ideas if you don't have any :-P 19:15:39 <larsemil> Eddi|zuHause: well now i got the connection dropped error. 19:16:08 <yorick> dih: moving desync-test to server would be a solution, then you'd have to expand openttd 19:16:08 <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a firewall issue 19:16:21 <yorick> firewalls don't cause desyncs... 19:17:12 <larsemil> this is how it is, first i connect to the game, it loads the whole map, it freezes, its moving and recieving info for 1 sec and then it bugs out 19:17:14 <FauxFaux> I bet you could write a firewall that dropped specific packets. :) 19:17:37 <yorick> larsemil: try to enable pause_on_join 19:17:44 <larsemil> yorick: it is. 19:17:46 *** welshdragon [~vista@host81-157-252-208.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 19:17:51 <yorick> it is what? 19:17:51 <larsemil> everyones game pauses when someone joins 19:18:09 <glx> what's the map size? 19:18:14 <larsemil> 2048x2048 19:18:16 <larsemil> =bug 19:18:18 <larsemil> big 19:18:23 *** welshdragon is now known as tireddragon 19:18:40 *** Zr40 [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:44 *** tireddragon is now known as welshdragon 19:18:55 *** larsemil [~larsemil@192-173-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 19:19:31 *** larsemil [~larsemil@192-173-96-87.cust.blixtvik.se] has joined #openttd 19:19:33 <larsemil> sry 19:19:38 <larsemil> anyone said anything? 19:19:41 <glx> no 19:19:53 *** Purno [~Purno@5350931D.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:20 <larsemil> so there is no solution except getting a nightly? 19:20:49 <hylje> does it happen in small maps too 19:20:51 <glx> autoreplace/autorenew is active ? 19:21:35 <larsemil> well i have no idea, i just wanted to play a game with some friends. i changed nothing from the 0.6.2 package i downloaded 19:22:16 <glx> there are some known desync causes for 0.6.2 and autoreplace/autorenew is one of them 19:23:27 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:23:43 <larsemil> i got another bug today, when building signals back in 1965 i got the newer ones. :D 19:24:05 <Wolf01> ctrl+click? 19:24:14 <larsemil> nope 19:24:29 <eekee> patch option? 19:25:35 <larsemil> well i give up, no luck connection 19:25:55 <larsemil> had some problems in the beginning but then i came in and it was stable for 2 hours, now its frakkin with me again 19:26:15 <Eddi|zuHause> i set the time the new signals appear to 1948 19:26:38 <Eddi|zuHause> which is rather *insert dreaded r word here* 19:29:19 <peter1138> Rubbish? 19:29:34 <Prof_Frink> rudge? 19:29:49 <yorick> owen? 19:31:28 <Belugas> repulsive? 19:31:37 <Belugas> ritournelle? 19:31:37 <orudge> RONG. 19:31:42 * orudge tesco, honest 19:31:52 <yorick> KICK 19:32:00 *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [ok] 19:32:01 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has joined #openttd 19:32:08 <eekee> hehe 19:32:09 <yorick> TB! 19:32:13 <Belugas> NTO FAIR!!! 19:32:18 <Belugas> I awas bout to do it! 19:32:25 <Belugas> mmg... 19:32:27 <glx> I was faster ;) 19:32:32 <yorick> oh 19:32:32 <Belugas> hehe 19:32:34 <yorick> GLX! 19:32:37 <yorick> sorry TB 19:32:59 * yorick gives cookie 19:34:34 * murray snaps the cookie in the passing 19:34:40 <murray> nom nom nom 19:35:45 * yorick NOMs with murray 19:35:52 <yorick> and it was poisoned 19:36:51 * Forked waves 19:36:56 <Forked> hows the cargodest thingy test going? 19:37:52 <dih> yorick: i am thinking about a solution, not telling you what solution i have 19:38:01 <yorick> notfair 19:38:20 <Forked> sooo.. whats the kick count on yorick? 19:38:42 <dih> this channel only or all others on this network? 19:40:09 <Forked> I think this will do.. 19:40:30 <SmatZ> 13 in my logs 19:40:43 <SmatZ> not much 19:40:49 <yorick> SmatZ: you grepped? 19:41:00 <SmatZ> yes 19:41:03 <yorick> heh 19:41:23 <yorick> does that include the "Did you bring snow yet" kicks? 19:41:33 <SmatZ> grep -c "yorick has been kicked from the channel by" *#openttd.log 19:42:04 <Ammler> Forked: join #openttdcoop.dev 19:42:06 <glx> do the same for noai ;) 19:42:16 <SmatZ> glx: only 1 occurence :-/ 19:42:26 <SmatZ> maybe my logs are too little 19:42:33 <yorick> noai, there are the tbs 19:45:59 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: yes 19:46:53 <TrueBrain> I have a total of 32 19:47:35 <dih> include openttdcoop openttdcoop.dev openttdFairPlay (what else have i forgotten?) 19:47:54 <TrueBrain> (noai just had 11) 19:48:02 <Rubidium> dih: #openttdstupidpythonbot 19:48:05 <TrueBrain> 32 are the channels Dorpsgek is in ;) 19:48:15 <dih> Rubidium, lol :-) 19:49:01 *** Zr40 [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #openttd 19:54:27 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:55:11 <yorick> I haven't been kicked from #openttdstupidpythonbot 19:55:13 <Ammler> kick is quite stupid as most have autojoin... 19:55:26 <dih> kick is not stupid 19:55:29 <dih> kick shows you a limit 19:55:31 <Belugas> 100 19:55:35 <dih> before you get to ban 19:55:42 <glx> Sacro doesn't have autojoin ;) 19:55:47 <Ammler> me too 19:56:17 <Belugas> "me neither" 19:56:19 <Ammler> either 19:56:27 <Ammler> yeah, thanks :-) 19:56:33 <Belugas> velcome 19:56:34 <Rubidium> I think mode Q is better 19:56:49 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F6F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 19:56:53 <glx> registered and identified only ? 19:57:30 <Rubidium> no, "global" /ignore 19:57:39 <glx> ha right 19:57:42 <yorick> mode Q = quiet 19:57:53 <dih> no - that is mode q 19:57:57 <dih> :-P 19:58:07 <dih> and that works very well actually 19:58:19 <Prof_Frink> mode Q = Gadgets! 19:59:03 *** mode/#openttd [+q *!*@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by Rubidium 19:59:05 <Rubidium> like so :) 19:59:24 <dih> hihi 19:59:37 <dih> uh uh - what you say? i cannot hear you :-P 19:59:38 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd 20:00:15 *** mode/#openttd [-q *!*@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] by Rubidium 20:00:48 <yorick> ? 20:00:52 <yorick> I said nothing 20:00:56 <dih> :-( 20:00:56 <yorick> I didn't even notice ^^ 20:01:05 * SmatZ wonders what would happen if yorick removed nm from all other users :) 20:01:14 <yorick> nm? 20:01:29 <SmatZ> owner + master 20:01:40 <yorick> you mean something like @seen * 20:02:34 <SmatZ> ok maybe my client interpretes wrong what Rubidium just did 20:02:38 <SmatZ> -e 20:03:00 <SmatZ> hmm is it correct to say "wrong" or "wrongly"/ 20:03:34 <glx> I'd say "wrongly" in this case 20:03:36 <yorick> what did it interpret 20:03:46 <SmatZ> [21:59:03] *** Rubidium gives channel owner privileges to *!*@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl. 20:03:57 <glx> your client failed 20:03:58 <yorick> your client wrongly interprets 20:04:07 <SmatZ> :-( 20:04:13 <yorick> it failed 20:04:13 <dih> SmatZ: what client? 20:04:19 <Ammler> [21:59] *** Rubidium gibt *!*@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl Besitzerstatus. 20:04:22 <yorick> dih: ctcp version? 20:04:29 <SmatZ> :) 20:04:33 <dih> SmatZ is sitting on our bouncer? 20:04:38 <Belugas> isn't it "wrongfully"? 20:04:40 <SmatZ> dih: yeah :) 20:04:46 <glx> hmm +q is indeed for owner 20:04:51 <SmatZ> Konversation 20:04:53 <yorick> Konverstation 20:05:13 <yorick> Konverstation fail :) 20:05:31 <SmatZ> dih: I don't filter ctcp version requests 20:05:37 <glx> and +a for protect 20:05:52 <dih> the bouncer did not reply to my ctcp version request :-P 20:06:00 <yorick> it did to mine 20:06:00 <glx> but on oftc +o is the max 20:06:05 <SmatZ> [22:05:00] [CTCP] Received CTCP-VERSION reply from SmatZ: Konversation 1.1 (C) 2002-2008 by the Konversation team. 20:06:18 <yorick> === CTCP version reply âKonversation 1.1 (C) 2002-2008 by the Konversation teamâ from SmatZ 20:06:46 <dih> :-( 20:07:00 <dih> ah - i found it 20:07:10 <dih> i configured the bouncer to filter them for me :-) 20:07:33 <SmatZ> hehe 20:08:11 <dih> you got the reply :-P 20:09:42 <dih> now - back to detecting bots 20:09:52 <dih> Rubidium, what would your gut-feeling be to this? 20:09:54 * Prof_Frink points at DorpsGek 20:11:05 <dih> yes - well done Prof_Frink, but i mean inside a game 20:11:08 <dih> and more automatic ;-) 20:11:59 <Rubidium> dih: well, ban them? 20:12:13 <dih> how to detect them? 20:12:19 <Rubidium> you can't 20:12:28 <dih> nothing one could do? 20:12:32 <dih> add? 20:12:45 <Prof_Frink> LIE_MODE=0 Are you a bot? 20:13:09 <yorick> dih: how can you detect IRC bots? 20:13:12 <dih> moving desync detection to the server side 20:13:27 <Rubidium> that's nasty to do 20:13:28 <yorick> people will port openttd to python :-p 20:13:41 <Prof_Frink> s/people/SpComb/ 20:13:48 <SpComb> lies 20:14:00 <yorick> SpComb: I already did the networking for you :) 20:14:09 <SpComb> yorick: let me see your code 20:14:12 <SpComb> but not now, later 20:14:16 <yorick> s/I/we 20:14:16 <dih> no you did not yorick 20:14:29 <dih> you did the networking for yourself and now want SpComb to use your work 20:14:39 <Prof_Frink> s|$|/| 20:14:52 <yorick> dih: that's basically the same, but seen in a more true way 20:14:57 <SmatZ> :) 20:15:59 <yorick> and I did not really do the openttd interface...I'm mainly working on the bot itself :-p 20:16:00 *** LilDood [~IceChat7@cpc2-bolt5-0-0-cust370.manc.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Quit: Life without danger is a waste of oxygen] 20:16:09 *** KillaloT [~killalot@0x5738cc92.rdnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The dawn of a new IRC era] 20:16:31 <Wolf01> 'night 20:16:35 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host245-236-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:19:32 <dih> Rubidium, what do you think of configurable thresholds to stop bruteforcing 20:19:41 <yorick> I think it's a nice idea 20:20:11 <yorick> but I'm not rub...and I shall not say anything 20:20:33 <Rubidium> dih: you mean: failed password == kick, no rcon without being fully joined to the map? 20:20:41 <dih> yes 20:20:50 <dih> or 3x failed rcon = kick 20:20:57 <yorick> I would like the failed rcon 3x = kick 20:21:00 <dih> + 5 x failed rcon = ban 20:21:06 <dih> based on ip 20:21:07 <yorick> no rcon without being fully joined is silly 20:21:13 <dih> it is not 20:21:23 <yorick> is not it? 20:21:42 <dih> you wanna be able to rcon while the server is awaiting the server password ? 20:21:53 <yorick> I sometimes use rcon to control the server while waiting for the map 20:22:07 *** Kasceh [~Kasc@cpc2-leed7-0-0-cust124.leed.cable.ntl.com] has quit [] 20:22:15 <yorick> and I wanna be able to use rcon before sending the PACKET_CLIENT_JOIN packet 20:22:45 <dih> yorick: just exactly that is the problem 20:22:51 <dih> people like using exactly that stage 20:22:59 <dih> or at least _can_ use exactly that 20:23:04 <dih> to brute force? 20:23:06 <dih> hmmm 20:23:07 <dih> yummy 20:23:14 <yorick> then add the limit there 20:23:15 <SpComb> the only of openttd that I care about is the networking 20:23:24 <SpComb> so I'd jus rewrite it anyways :P 20:24:16 <Belugas> yeah! let's do that!! with XML 20:24:25 <yorick> Belugas: let's do what? 20:24:54 <Belugas> i guess yorick has SpComb on /ignore :) 20:24:56 <Rubidium> yeah, and SOAP and RPC 20:25:01 <Belugas> or he need glasses 20:25:04 <dih> yeah - nice 20:25:11 <yorick> I guess I have 20:25:14 <dih> why not include an ftp server to upload savegames 20:25:34 <dih> and while we are at it.... 20:25:45 <yorick> dih: is on the goals list... 20:25:58 <yorick> yes? 20:25:59 <dih> you are on the goals list 20:26:03 <dih> :-P 20:26:17 * Prof_Frink was implemented in 0.5 20:26:22 <yorick> a yorick-less openttd python framework 20:26:33 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@78-21-228-27.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 20:26:36 <Prof_Frink> ylopf. I like it. 20:26:48 <yorick> Prof_Frink caused too much trouble and was removed from any future versions 20:27:11 <dih> how boring 20:29:28 *** yorick [~Yorick@s55924da0.adsl.wanadoo.nl] has quit [Quit: boring Poef! there you have it!] 20:31:18 * eekee converts an old game from standard trains to ukrs to aleviate boredom 20:34:18 <Belugas> eekee, want something that will REALLY aleviate boredom? 20:34:21 <Belugas> CODE!!! 20:34:54 * eekee ponders this 20:35:28 * TrueBrain makes a static link to this, and sees it doesn't resolve .. 20:35:41 <eekee> :J 20:37:36 <TrueBrain> http://www.enb-emulator.com/ <- I still think it is cool people reverse engineer such protocols and reclone a game back into existence :) 20:39:24 <eekee> yeah ^_^ 20:39:24 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:39:43 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:44:32 <eekee> when I look at the source I get a bit intimidated, not knowing where to start, and I've never really had anything to do with c++ either 20:45:05 * davis- gn 20:45:23 *** davis- [~asd@p5B28BB5F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 20:45:51 *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 20:45:53 <TrueBrain> I am proud to let you guys know that 54% of the OpenTTD webpage vistors use FireFox :) 20:46:08 * Prof_Frink doesn't 20:46:13 <TrueBrain> eekee: if you want to touch (any) source, you need to have a goal :) 20:46:18 <TrueBrain> then the rest comes when you go 20:46:24 <nckomodo> I keep wanting to modify OpenTTD and add planes that can go to waypoints and bomb things 20:46:32 <nckomodo> but I wouldnt know where to start 20:46:43 <TrueBrain> nckomodo: and what do you want to bomb? :) 20:46:49 <eekee> TrueBrain: this is true, and my goals tend to be large 20:46:56 <nckomodo> bomb whatever 20:47:32 <TrueBrain> eekee: well, I started out doing FaceSelector for OpenTTD (was never added, as it sucked :p) 20:47:34 <TrueBrain> next thing was bigmaps :p 20:47:39 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't use firefox either... 20:47:41 <TrueBrain> so that doesn't matter ;) Just takes longer :) 20:47:44 <nckomodo> actually I think that'd be a fun modification to OpenTTD, a wartime sort of thing 20:47:50 <nckomodo> trucks with AA guns, etc etc 20:47:51 <eekee> :) 20:48:17 <TrueBrain> nckomodo: you might want to load up an other game 20:48:31 <eekee> TrueBrain: I've been wishing for elevated light rail / monorail, lately 20:48:32 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e179090235.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: (~_~]"] 20:48:55 <TrueBrain> eekee: haha, that might be too hard to start with yes :p 20:49:09 <eekee> thought so :D 20:49:13 <Eddi|zuHause> try shunting :p 20:49:30 <nckomodo> TrueBrain maybe, but I still think it could be fun if you do it right 20:49:31 <eekee> shunting would be nice 20:50:46 <eekee> hmm for wartime you'd need ability for vehicles (inc waggons) to shoot at each other, and several new flavours of crash and burn. doesn't sound too awful 20:50:50 <TrueBrain> nckomodo: I doubt there is a 'right' in this case :) 20:50:57 <TrueBrain> hmm .. mapgen .. that is a project I should revive .. 20:51:56 <eekee> oh my nephews love playing dirty. like, building a short bit of rail across a road where their oponent has trucks, and running an engine across when they see a truck coming 20:52:11 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14240 /trunk/docs/obg_format.txt: -Doc: add a few pointers/"howto"-ish lines to the obg format documentation about what it does and does not do and how you should fill the data. 20:56:38 *** OdwallaBongwater [~nckomodo@scottb.carrollwater-wifi0.amplex.net] has joined #openttd 20:56:38 *** nckomodo [~nckomodo@scottb.carrollwater-wifi0.amplex.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:02 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-2-131-220.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 20:59:39 <Eddi|zuHause> oh i remember doing that too... back when i was 12... 20:59:52 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7EFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 21:00:42 <eekee> they do it to each other & like it. *shrug* :D 21:03:56 <TrueBrain> that will pass :p 21:04:00 <SmatZ> they enjoy the game, that's important 21:04:16 <eekee> TrueBrain: they're 20 & 24 ;) 21:04:44 <eekee> honestly I don't really 'get' the finer points of playing fair. maybe they're the same 21:05:00 <SmatZ> it is too easy to play unfair in OTTD 21:05:29 <SmatZ> furthermore when you can modify sources... 21:05:30 <eekee> well, it's a business sim... 21:05:49 <eekee> are you suggesting something SmatZ? ^^; 21:05:56 <SmatZ> no 21:06:09 <SmatZ> just you can automate some destroying actions 21:06:19 <SmatZ> though maybe it is more fun to flatten the land manually 21:06:22 <Prof_Frink> peter1138! NewOFT! 21:06:37 <eekee> ahh 21:08:02 *** AlexFili [~AlexFili@host86-136-145-193.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 21:08:06 <AlexFili> hello 21:08:50 <SmatZ> hello 21:09:00 <AlexFili> I'm having some major problems with online multiplayer 21:09:15 <AlexFili> after about 10 minutes I get disconnected and my router stops accepting connections for some reason 21:09:19 <glx> try ethernet connection 21:09:30 <AlexFili> im using a wireless router 21:09:57 <AlexFili> with a wireless network card in the pc 21:10:05 <glx> still, try wire 21:10:29 <AlexFili> also when im running openttd, my DS and PSP cant connect to the router 21:10:29 *** Wezz6400 is now known as Guest5127 21:10:32 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 21:10:32 <glx> if that works the problem is wifi and not the router 21:10:34 <AlexFili> sounds like openTTD is overloading my router 21:10:54 *** mortal` [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: [FATAL] Client error: Memory leak - More RAM needed. More! More! More!] 21:10:55 <TrueBrain> yeah, it tends to use a lot of bandwidth (lol, that was sarcastic :p) 21:10:57 *** Sacro [~Ben@83.100.229.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:07 <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is most likely the most network friendly application you have on your computer :) 21:11:20 <AlexFili> thats weird 21:11:21 <TrueBrain> any Torrent application requires MUCH more ;) 21:11:33 *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-213-249-187-179.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 21:11:41 <AlexFili> well either way, something with openttd makes my router crash, and i wish i knew what 21:11:41 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: I dunno. ls? 21:12:00 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: sorry? 21:12:04 <AlexFili> does it matter if the router is right next to the pc? 21:12:26 <TrueBrain> reminds me, does OpenTTD already support upnp? :) 21:12:27 <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: ls is probably more network-friendly than openttd 21:12:50 <AlexFili> whats ls? 21:12:52 <glx> TrueBrain: no upnp support 21:13:15 <Prof_Frink> AlexFili: dir. 21:13:17 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: and is that a network application? 21:13:24 <TrueBrain> glx: hmmm :) 21:13:33 <Prof_Frink> You never said that. 21:13:36 <fjb> Prof_Frink: Also when you are using nfs? 21:13:45 <TrueBrain> [23:11] <TrueBrain> OpenTTD is most likely the most **network** friendly application you have on your computer :) 21:13:50 <TrueBrain> you should learn to read my friend :) 21:13:52 <glx> btw wireless needs some distance between source and receiver 21:13:54 <eekee> Prof_Frink: try ls -R on a large repo served over 9P 21:14:17 <Rubidium> or over ssh 21:14:22 <Prof_Frink> network friendly **application** 21:14:27 <AlexFili> this problem never happened with my old router 21:14:32 <Prof_Frink> Not netork friendly network application 21:14:33 <AlexFili> only since i got a new BT homehub 21:14:38 <TrueBrain> sigh ... 21:14:39 *** Zr40 [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:14:41 <TrueBrain> muggesifter 21:14:45 <Prof_Frink> Bless you 21:14:49 <eekee> sounds like the router 21:14:55 <TrueBrain> AlexFili: I doubt very much OpenTTD is the reason for your problem :) 21:14:58 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff40a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:15 <AlexFili> TrueBrain this doesnt happen with any other application 21:15:29 <AlexFili> Counter Strike, torrents, you name it 21:15:34 <AlexFili> it only happens when i play openTTD 21:15:38 <Prof_Frink> AlexFili: Is this the BT homehub that would crash if someone uses BBC iplayer? 21:15:47 <Rubidium> AlexFili: that's just luck I reckon 21:16:10 <AlexFili> i can play iplayer fine 21:16:51 <TrueBrain> it is like blaiming the Minin on the highway for the traffic-jam where it is standing in .. 10 km from the start of the jam :) 21:17:01 <TrueBrain> Minin = Mini 21:17:07 <Prof_Frink> Mini = Micra 21:17:12 <AlexFili> :( the problem only happens when I play openTTD 21:17:20 <eekee> Mini != Micra! 21:17:22 <Prof_Frink> Except it *is* the micra's fault. 21:17:35 <Rubidium> AlexFili: and it started happening since you got a new router, right? 21:17:53 <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: there is always a chance it caused a traffic jam, drove back to the end of the line, and sat in the jam it created itself 21:17:53 <TrueBrain> :) 21:17:59 <TrueBrain> possibilities there are always :) 21:18:01 <AlexFili> thats correct 21:18:09 <Rubidium> AlexFili: ANY hardware that OpenTTD crashes means that the controlling software of that hardware is flawed. 21:18:44 <AlexFili> well for whatever reason this only happens with openTTD 21:18:56 <SmatZ> AlexFili: my old router had bug that it locked up when I had too many open connections... 21:19:18 <peter1138> Hmm, my plan for generic action 0 property skipping fails. 21:19:21 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: which you would notice with any torrent application .. but with OpenTTD? :p 21:19:24 <SmatZ> or when I opened too many TCP connections in too short time 21:19:28 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 21:19:43 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I don't know if torrent is UDP or TCP based... 21:19:51 <AlexFili> both 21:19:51 <glx> both 21:19:53 <AlexFili> lol 21:19:55 <SmatZ> though... how many connections do you have open in OTTD... 21:19:56 <Rubidium> so the router can't handle 100+ UDP packets in transit? 21:19:57 <SmatZ> ok ok :) 21:19:58 <TrueBrain> TCP, mostly 21:20:01 *** Guest5127 is now known as Wezz6400 21:20:13 <AlexFili> actually that reminds me 21:20:17 <AlexFili> i havent used config on this new router 21:20:24 <AlexFili> I guess i should see if 3979 port is blocked lol 21:20:32 *** Wezz6400 is now known as Guest5129 21:20:35 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 21:20:35 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: OpenTTD? 1 UDP socket, 1 TCP socket, for a server, and each client connected of course :) 21:21:06 <glx> for a client 1 TCP once joined 21:21:07 <SmatZ> TrueBrain: when you open the server list and request newgrf info to be sent, this all is done via UDP, right? 21:21:18 <glx> yes 21:21:21 <SmatZ> ok :) 21:21:51 <TrueBrain> SmatZ: and 1 UDP socket, to be exact .. but UDP doesn't bind, so that doesn't really count ;) 21:22:02 <TrueBrain> (UDP isn't really a connection ;)) 21:22:15 <TrueBrain> a stateless mean of communication .. :p 21:22:34 <SmatZ> yeah :) that's why am asking if it is done via TCP :) 21:22:38 <glx> it's like using a megaphone? 21:22:40 <SmatZ> I hope I never said that 21:22:52 <TrueBrain> glx: lol, nice comparison :) 21:22:58 <SmatZ> :-D megaphone = broadcast ;) 21:23:41 <eekee> broadcast udp, because some of the recipients may not get the message properly 21:23:57 <TrueBrain> but for OpenTTD to kill any sane TCP stack .. well .. there needs to be something very wrnog in that case :p 21:24:16 <AlexFili> yeah i didnt understand it either 21:24:39 <Rubidium> just complain to BT that your router crashes reliably 21:25:15 *** Guest5129 is now known as Wezz 21:26:03 <AlexFili> I dont suppose anyone here has a BT Homehub? 21:26:20 <glx> I have a freebox v4 and it works very well 21:26:23 * eekee won't ever have one, now :) 21:26:43 <AlexFili> im just wondering how i get past this user/password query 21:26:47 <AlexFili> admin/admin doesnt work 21:27:06 <eekee> oh it might be "root" for both user and pass 21:27:08 <glx> press the button 21:27:41 <AlexFili> nope, its not root 21:27:44 <glx> (livebox use this trick) 21:27:54 <glx> or is it 9box 21:27:56 <AlexFili> "Your BT Home Hub is preset with Broadband user name and password for automatic connection to the BT Broadband network. 21:27:56 <AlexFili> You can use this page to change the default settings if requested by your Broadband service provider. Please check with your service provider if you need to enter alternative settings and what these settings are. 21:27:56 <AlexFili> Important: If your Hub is already connected to the Internet, you will first need to disconnect before being able to change the username and password." 21:28:08 <AlexFili> damn, guess i need to d/c 21:28:14 <AlexFili> well thanks for all the help 21:28:18 <AlexFili> hopefully i'll be back 21:28:27 *** AlexFili [~AlexFili@host86-136-145-193.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 21:28:34 *** Tim [~Tim@p5B37DC99.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #openttd [] 21:31:55 <fjb> If we will ever see him again? 21:32:05 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: Caught sigterm, terminating...] 21:32:14 <eekee> heh :) 21:33:12 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 21:34:03 <TrueBrain> fjb: I am bombing his router, I doubt that :p 21:34:28 <fjb> Ping of death? :-) 21:35:34 <Forked> "your hub" ? 21:35:38 <TrueBrain> I have enough bandwidth to do so ... :p 21:35:47 <TrueBrain> I remember the early days of Hotmail 21:35:55 <TrueBrain> some friend was bragging that Hotmail had the best filters 21:35:59 <TrueBrain> it was impossible to mailbomb him 21:36:04 <TrueBrain> the next day he had 100,000 emails in his box 21:36:13 <eekee> LOL 21:36:15 <TrueBrain> (in those days, there were no such things as spam-filters, greylisting, and other 'protections') 21:36:22 <fjb> Too bad all that old tricks are not working anymore. Was fun. Ping of death or later ping with payload "+++ath0". :-) 21:36:24 <TrueBrain> and I happened to have access to a 100 mbit connection ... 21:36:34 <Forked> heh us robotics modems.. 21:36:41 <TrueBrain> somehow we never became friends .. makes you wonder .. 21:36:42 <Rubidium> the good old times of jolt :) 21:36:58 <TrueBrain> fjb: you would be supprised how easy it is for me to ping you to death 21:37:08 <TrueBrain> if ICMP ping fails, I always have the ways of TCP pings 21:37:09 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [] 21:37:15 <fjb> Not US Robotics. Rockwell chipset in modems. 21:37:46 <TrueBrain> (just TCP pings requires more bandwidth from me, as I don't kill your upload, but your download, which takes slightly longer) 21:38:33 <fjb> TrueBrain: Mircrosoft fixed the ipstack of Windows, so no ping of death anymore... :-( 21:39:13 <TrueBrain> you want me to try it at yours? :p 21:39:30 <peter1138> That payload of +++ath0 always surprised me. 21:39:48 <peter1138> The fact it worked... 21:40:05 <fjb> Try it. But what you are talking about is nor classical ping of death where you needed only one packet to shoot Windows down. 21:40:57 <peter1138> No, I mean surprised that ppp allowed it to go straight through for ICMP, but obviously didn't for TCP... 21:41:14 <TrueBrain> fjb: ah, that ping of death 21:41:18 <TrueBrain> you are right about that :) 21:41:22 <fjb> peter1138: Yes, the payload was echoed back. And the stupid Rockwel chips didn't wait for the pause between "+++" and "ath0". 21:42:20 <Rubidium> fjb: jolt is a much nicer way of teasing Windows users 21:42:28 <fjb> TrueBrain: And you are free to flood my firewall. 21:43:01 <fjb> What is jolt? I'm not in the Windows shooting business anymore. 21:43:35 <Brianetta> A player on my server just accidentally auto-replaced his Deltics with 0-4-0 saddle tanks 21:43:37 <Rubidium> fjb: google for jolt.c 21:43:44 <Brianetta> He doesn't have funds to undo this 21:43:48 <Brianetta> we're all giggling rather 21:43:55 <eekee> hehe 21:45:07 <fjb> Rubidium: Yoah, jolt is that ping of death that I was talking about. Just didn't know it under that name. 21:46:05 *** Osai is now known as Osai^zZz 21:46:44 <Rubidium> fjb: but it isn't deadly; okay the mouse pointer can't be moved while under the influence of jolt, but when stopped it'll return to "normal" operations within a minute 21:47:07 <Rubidium> though usually the people getting jolted reset their computer before you stop jolt 21:48:03 <fjb> You could make Windows 3.11 blusscreen with oversized packtes. 21:48:28 <fjb> TrueBrain: When do you start to ping me? 21:49:04 * Rubidium wonders what kind of connection fjb has 21:49:39 * fjb smiles. 21:52:50 <Brianetta> Rubidium: I can make most desyncs go away by disabling all newgrfs. 21:53:38 *** wgrant [~wgrant@c122-108-27-22.eburwd9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 21:53:45 <Brianetta> Unfortunately, two non-overlapping sub-sets of newgrfs cause problems. 21:53:55 <Brianetta> so I can't point my finger at any one. 21:56:19 <fjb> Point your fingers at both. 21:57:18 <Eddi|zuHause> don't point naked fingers at dressed newgrfs 21:58:16 <Rubidium> Brianetta: is the waypoint issue caused by any of those subsets, or also without newgrfs? 21:58:26 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:58:35 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 21:58:35 <Rubidium> and what are the subsets? 21:59:04 <Brianetta> All but stations, certain trains but no stations, no trains but plenty of stations 21:59:20 <peter1138> Hah! 21:59:22 <peter1138> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=725190#p725190 22:00:18 <Brianetta> Rubidium: Currently, with no station newgrfs, we've had no waypoint sesyncs to my knowledge 22:00:23 <Brianetta> but plenty of others 22:01:02 <Brianetta> First big desync happened as I ordered road reconstruction on a town full of trams 22:01:10 <Brianetta> One of the trams got stuck, too 22:01:33 <fjb> peter1138: :-) TTDP unable to load certain old saves? 22:02:52 <Rubidium> Brianetta: did the tram thingy desync everybody or only newly joined people? 22:03:07 <Brianetta> It desynced three of five players 22:03:17 <Brianetta> we've had sporadic desyncs ever since 22:03:19 <eekee> I've had ottd mess up save games saved with a particular nightly before. ^^; It's fixed now, but I'm currently playing another save that has ufo shadows all over the place from another nightly 22:03:40 <Brianetta> I have not desynced yet, and I've been on and off 22:04:01 <Rubidium> anything different between the three desyncees and the two who didn't desync? 22:04:18 <Rubidium> like different OS/compiler etc 22:04:55 *** jni [~geetee@cs181040004.pp.htv.fi] has joined #openttd 22:05:06 <peter1138> Not the old out of bounds array access.. 22:05:09 <Brianetta> Nothing I'm aware of. I think all the desyned players are XP users. 22:05:42 <Brianetta> Oh no 22:05:47 <Brianetta> thinglie's a Fedora user 22:06:06 <Rubidium> and the non-desyncing users? 22:07:01 <Brianetta> Mixture. I'm Ubuntu Linux, Michael's Vista 22:07:29 <Rubidium> did that Michael compile OpenTTD himself? 22:07:36 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5C0CD.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:07:36 <Brianetta> I'm running a self-compiled SVN checkout, as is the server 22:08:19 <Brianetta> Michael is using the official download 22:10:06 <Brianetta> I'm going to run without trams or newstatsw in the next game. 22:10:23 <Brianetta> This means I'll have no newgrf waypoints 22:10:29 <Brianetta> and no trams, clearly 22:12:48 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:19:27 * peter1138 > sleep 22:22:29 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:26:38 *** sono [~sono@78.46.42.175] has joined #openttd 22:27:04 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:06 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.83 [Firefox 3.0.1/2008070208]] 22:28:09 *** Jerimiah40 [~jerimiah4@h66-244-213-147.pmcnet.ca] has joined #openttd 22:31:10 <Rubidium> newstatsw is the only newgrf with waypoints? 22:31:31 <Rubidium> can't quickly find anything suspicious in it 22:32:16 <eekee> also uk waypoints set? 22:33:44 <Rubidium> that isn't used on Brianetta's server 22:33:50 <eekee> k 22:34:35 <Brianetta> We'll see. If the waypoints thing crops up without newstatsw we'll know it's not because the waypoints were graphically overridden. 22:35:24 <Brianetta> oh no 22:35:30 <Brianetta> davidpk212 has quoted me in his sig 22:35:33 *** Pikka [PikkaBird@58.173.248.50] has joined #openttd 22:35:36 <Brianetta> [All] Brianetta: Nobody shifts gems and christmas cards like me. 22:35:47 <Pikka> well put 22:35:53 <Brianetta> That was me, with my passenger-free Deltic-based valuables and mail line 22:36:13 <Brianetta> Pikka: Does your suburban renewal touch hotels? 22:36:40 <Pikka> if you mean the big two-tile ones with the pool on the roof, they're gone, yes. 22:36:52 <Brianetta> er, not quite 22:36:58 <Brianetta> allow me to upload some shots 22:37:01 <Pikka> they should be :P 22:39:00 <Pikka> woo, desync :O 22:40:05 <Brianetta> yeah )-: 22:41:41 <Brianetta> Pikka: http://ppcis.org/standard/shots/ 22:41:41 *** KritiK [~Maxim@93-80-40-130.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:42:15 <Brianetta> Can you spot it? (: 22:43:14 <Brianetta> I created that company after Pikka called me a back seat engineer 22:43:25 <eekee> good name 22:44:30 <eekee> hmm no tree grfs on grf crawler 22:45:59 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.133.253] has joined #openttd 22:47:12 *** Farden [~jk3farden@ram94-7-82-232-189-236.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 22:48:20 <eekee> there is at least 1 tree replacement grf 'out there' isn't there? 22:49:34 <Progman> yes 22:49:37 <Progman> stolen trees 22:49:45 <eekee> o lol what's in it? 22:50:04 *** Wezz6400 [wessel@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 22:50:37 <eekee> (I'm not surprised if they're 'stolen' from some other game, there's a heck of a lot of tree sprites iirc) 22:51:43 * SpComb yawns 22:53:42 *** Wezz [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:58:00 *** Wezz6400 [wessel@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:17 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 23:09:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F6F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:24 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-2-131-220.manc.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:18:49 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 23:20:32 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@snat1.spoje.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:14 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:28:37 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has quit [Quit: reboot] 23:30:03 *** Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@145-118-111-36.fttx.bbned.nl] has joined #openttd 23:39:16 *** Yexo [~Yexo@dhcp-077-248-065-055.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 23:57:25 <Tekky> in the OpenTTD source code, there is the following define in stdafx.h: 23:57:27 <Tekky> #define cpp_offsetof(s, m) (((size_t)&reinterpret_cast<const volatile char&>((((s*)(char*)8)->m))) - 8) 23:57:28 <Tekky> Why not simply use the ANSI offsetof operator? 23:57:51 *** rortom [~rortom@p57B7EFB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:58:55 <Tekky> I don't understand why this ugly hack is required.