Log for #openttd on 5th September 2008:
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00:01:58  <TrueBrain> lol, the compile-farm is automated in such way, that I sometimes forget that when I make a test-proc, it also immediatly starts to compile it
00:02:06  <TrueBrain> gives nasty suprises from time to time
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00:17:02  <TrueBrain> well, good night to you too Celestar :p
00:21:43  <TrueBrain> why do people always want releases fast and faster?
00:21:57  <TrueBrain> like with some magic new things *poef* appear
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00:24:18  <johnl> HEllo all
00:24:33  <johnl> Anyone about? :)
00:25:47  <TrueBrain> doubtful
00:25:49  <TrueBrain> it is the middle of the night
00:26:04  <Belugas> naaa.. only thebeginning of it :)
00:26:12  <johnl> Hehe, well it's the middle of the night here
00:26:17  <johnl> And I'm about to start my work
00:26:24  <johnl> Or I was going to, till I opened OpenTTD :D
00:26:39  <TrueBrain> Belugas: but you are crazy ;)
00:26:46  <johnl> I have a suggestion for OpenTTD
00:26:50  <johnl> Maybe it exists already
00:27:01  <johnl> I see in the Hot-keys that you can easily close all windows etc.
00:27:12  <johnl> It'd be nice to have a button which lets you hide them temporarily
00:27:25  <johnl> Like that feature in Photoshop which lets you hide all the palettes to work on the image
00:27:35  <johnl> Does that exist already?
00:27:48  <SmatZ> I don't remember anyone suggesting that
00:28:02  <TrueBrain> sounds like an idea
00:28:04  <TrueBrain> now code it ;) :p
00:28:07  <SmatZ> :)
00:28:17  <SmatZ> could be done via double-click on the window header
00:28:34  <johnl> I was thinking of a key for it
00:28:35  <johnl> Hmm
00:28:41  <TrueBrain> Zephyris really is going for it ...
00:28:42  <johnl> Tab would've been nice, but it's in use
00:28:43  <Belugas> maybe... but please... NO CTRL-CLICK!!!
00:28:55  <johnl> Caps Lock? :)
00:28:58  <SmatZ> mmm maybe ctrl+alt+shift click
00:29:01  <johnl> Haha
00:29:17  <TrueBrain> one almost would think that OpenGFX is nearing completetion ..
00:29:27  <Belugas> double-ctrl+double-shift + left-right click
00:29:31  <Belugas> use yor feet!
00:29:33  <SmatZ> :-)
00:29:44  <Belugas> true, TrueBrain
00:29:54  <SmatZ> false, FalseBrain
00:29:57  <Belugas> he even extends to new horizons
00:30:04  <johnl> What about backspace?
00:30:17  <johnl> Since delete permanently closes them, it kinda makes sense
00:30:19  <TrueBrain> I last looked at it 2 months ago .. they were at like 30% .. now more like 80% :s
00:30:22  <Belugas> and i'm been called crazy?  looks like SmatZ out did me :D
00:30:36  <SmatZ> johnl: you want to affect all windows at once?
00:30:47  <SmatZ> Belugas: :-D
00:30:49  <TrueBrain> Belugas: SmatZ never out does you, don't worry
00:30:54  <SmatZ> :-D
00:31:12  <johnl> SmatZ: Yeah, it's just to clear the whole screen of windows temporarily, so you can see what's happening
00:31:15  <johnl> :)
00:31:29  <SmatZ> or you can play at 1600x1200
00:31:40  <johnl> True
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00:32:57  <TrueBrain> I never suspected OpenGFX would make it ..
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00:33:25  <johnl> My other idea, which is far more insane, is translating OpenTTD into Irish
00:33:28  <TrueBrain> <- that looks cool :)
00:33:51  <SmatZ> johnl: are you a volunteer? :)
00:34:02  <johnl> Possibly!
00:34:03  <johnl> Thing is
00:34:07  <johnl> I doubt anyone would ever use it
00:34:08  <johnl> :/
00:34:18  <Elukka> i really need to bother to learn blender...
00:34:23  <Elukka> i need to get unlazified
00:34:31  <SmatZ> hmm who uses piglatin...
00:35:42  <nckomodo> TrueBrain how is that water going up/down hill
00:35:51  <nckomodo> is it just disguised canals?
00:35:55  <SmatZ> johnl: :)
00:36:03  <johnl> Yeah
00:36:06  <johnl> I'll have a think about it
00:36:15  <johnl> It's a lot of effort to do a translation, isn't it?
00:36:26  <TrueBrain> nckomodo: just enjoy the picture, k? :)
00:36:37  <johnl> The cross-over between people who use Irish and who play OpenTTD is probably me.
00:36:53  <nckomodo> nothing to enjoy really, more to question really
00:36:59  <TrueBrain> johnl: just a little over 3700 strings
00:37:13  <TrueBrain> nckomodo: if you can't enjoy the beauty of tha tpicture, you never played TT :)
00:37:22  <nckomodo> apparently not
00:37:31  <nckomodo> its uh, okay I guess
00:37:40  <nckomodo> I find more beauty in conways game of life
00:38:00  <nckomodo> and the sweet noises it can make
00:38:16  <TrueBrain> I like the way the sun falls in, and the smoothness of the grass :) I hope those guys finish it soon :)
00:38:55  <Elukka> hmm... i could cheat
00:39:09  <Elukka> since a lot of buildings are comparatively simple 3D models, i could do them in sketchup and export to blender
00:39:14  <nckomodo> which reminds me, I need to get fraps and get a youtube video up of the GoL noise generator I made
00:40:36  <TrueBrain> good night all
00:40:41  <TrueBrain> Belugas: have a jolly good day :)
00:40:41  <Elukka> nights
00:40:54  <SmatZ> night TrueBrain
00:42:12  <johnl> Night night :)
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00:55:37  <Elukka> anyone else here like the occasional train sim?
01:15:37  <nckomodo> I think everyone does
01:15:43  <nckomodo> considering this is #openttd
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01:28:33  <Elukka> heh
01:29:04  <Elukka> trainz is my current train sim
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02:47:53  <Belugas> nice... can't fnd that patch anymore :(
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04:16:22  <Forked> oh. new cargodest build? :)
04:18:31  <Elukka> xfire says i have played 40 hours of openttd this week
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04:35:23  <Pikka> I say I say I say
04:35:33  <Pikka> why do my newgrfs always revert to using the DOS pallete?
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04:56:17  <Forked> boioing
04:56:25  <Forked> roboboy: there was a new cargodest build if you haven't seen :)
04:56:51  <roboboy> ok
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04:58:02  <roboboy> hello
04:58:41  <Forked> mornin
04:59:09  <roboboy> my client was mucking up
05:01:37  <DaleStan> Pikka: In which revision? There was a bug to that effect that got fixed recently.
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05:03:41  <Celestar> morning
05:04:01  <Forked> heya Celestar :)
05:05:40  <Pikka> 14239, DaleStan
05:06:09  * roboboy ponders just downloading the binary for the latest cargodest
05:07:03  <DaleStan> Ah. It's fixed in 14245, apparently.
05:08:33  <Pikka> okiedokie then
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05:10:36  <Celestar> hi roboboy
05:10:48  <Celestar> roboboy: about your bug report on flyspray
05:11:09  <roboboy> I just replyed with a coment
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05:14:15  <roboboy> and it just crashed again
05:14:20  <roboboy> doing the same thing
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05:16:02  <roboboy> with the same version as reported
05:16:46  <roboboy> shall I compile the latest source or download the compiled version
05:31:03  <Celestar> roboboy: you can try the binary. it's the latest
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05:46:50  * roboboy waits for openttd to crash if it wants to crash
05:48:29  <roboboy> its fixed
05:48:44  <Celestar> I thought so (=
05:54:38  <Rubidium> Celestar: that was a short night :)
05:54:43  <Celestar> Rubidium: very
05:54:50  <Celestar> but I need to do a few things this morning :S
05:56:14  <Celestar> ...
05:56:31  <Celestar> are people really expecting me to debug stuff when the manually patch cargodest with yet something else?!
05:56:48  <Rubidium> Celestar: yes they are
05:57:05  <Forked> you mean to don't do that?!?!+1+1+1oneplusplusoneequalstwo
05:57:16  <Rubidium> for that I added an "unsupported custom build" bug close reason :)
05:57:22  <Celestar> Rubidium: hah
05:57:37  <Celestar> 1) Created with patch version against r14127 combined with daylength-patch against r13691.
05:57:40  <Celestar> Do you need something more?
05:57:41  <Celestar> EXACTLY
05:58:21  <Celestar> we NEED infrastructure sharing with cargodest :P
05:58:39  <Celestar> somehow (=
05:59:01  <Celestar> back in an hour or two
05:59:43  * Forked started page 8 of the cargodest thread
05:59:44  <Forked> I win
06:00:51  <Forked> Celestar: that does sound fun - can play coop games with our own companies :)
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06:03:28  <roboboy> I accidently reported a bug the other day
06:03:44  <roboboy> I was just asking a question
06:06:19  <Celestar> oh man I need to code less
06:06:35  <Celestar> every time I see a ":" in the headline of a newpaper I think about "inherits from"
06:08:06  <Celestar> ok bbl really
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06:52:34  <ccfreak2k> Survived:Deceased
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07:05:30  <roboboy> is it possible to with the patch to disable building infrastructure when there is no available vehicles to make the menue hide those options instead of grey them out like TTD did as I prefer it like that
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08:18:24  <fjb> Hello
08:18:44  <[com]buster> hi
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09:02:03  <Celestar> hm
09:02:18  <peter1138> Morning.
09:02:20  <Celestar> I have some weird yapp issue when a station track is often not cleared
09:02:24  <Celestar> hey peter1138 , how is it?
09:03:23  <Celestar> so who's maintaining yapp?
09:04:01  <peter1138> Us.
09:04:32  <Celestar> us being?
09:04:36  <peter1138> Us.
09:04:53  <peter1138> Us OpenTTD developers.
09:05:23  <peter1138> < Related?
09:07:12  <Celestar> yeah
09:07:15  <Celestar> apparently the same
09:07:20  <Celestar> because I had one non-elrail tile :o
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10:02:51  <Pikka> losers!
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10:03:11  <Pikka> :O
10:03:18  <TrueBrain> :o
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10:14:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14246 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_road.cpp: [NoAI] -Change: DriveThroughStations (from the correct side) are also a valid Neighbour in GetNeighbourRoadCount (patch by Rubidium)
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10:24:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14247 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_airport.hpp.sq ai_error.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Fix: someone forgot to update the .sq files (well, several times over time ;))
10:25:20  <Ammler> drive through, is the missing penalty of foreign stops fixed?
10:28:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14248 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
10:28:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: AISign.GetText() -> AISign.GetName() (more consistant)
10:28:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: AISign.SetName() (on request)
10:29:08  <peter1138> Pikka, no, we are winnders, for we have UKRS, and NARS2, and stuffs!
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10:48:39  <Pikka> how rare
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10:57:53  <Pikka> peter, did you do anything with my town building feature request the other day? :)
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11:07:16  <peter1138> I might've done. What was it?
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11:10:22  <Pikka> coords of building and of town
11:10:36  <Pikka> xy
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11:30:39  <TrueBrain> who of you guys is bored enough to update this list:
11:30:58  <peter1138> Not me.
11:31:01  <Pikka> not I!
11:31:12  <TrueBrain> did I ask who not? No. I asked who was.
11:31:23  <Pikka> oh okay
11:31:25  <TrueBrain> (104 people saying: not me, is not that useful ;))
11:31:25  <Pikka> Ammler
11:31:36  <peter1138> Yes, Ammler wants to do it.
11:31:44  <TrueBrain> okay, Ammler, I expect result within the hour
11:31:47  <TrueBrain> (Hehe :))
11:31:59  <Ammler> :P
11:32:37  * peter1138 ponders a Roland RC-55.
11:32:44  <Ammler> "an AI that is actually worthy of its name " <-- already noAI there?
11:32:58  <TrueBrain> Ammler: hehe, no, and please remove such non-sense
11:33:06  <TrueBrain> (really, who added that?!)
11:33:15  <TrueBrain> I know no AI worthy of its name in trunk
11:33:21  <TrueBrain> well .. only if you call it dumbAI
11:33:36  <Forked> AuI .. aritifical unintelligence
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11:49:19  <Ammler> about.php looks quite empty
11:50:16  <TrueBrain> how do you mean?
11:50:56  <Ammler> <-- not much to edit?
11:51:03  <Ammler> where is the content?
11:51:08  <TrueBrain> in the DB
11:51:11  <TrueBrain> so use the result of the page
11:51:12  <TrueBrain> copy that
11:51:28  <TrueBrain> as I don't need it to update that page, but I need it to add it to an other page ...
11:52:39  <Ammler> hmm, then it might be best to copy it to the wiki for review...
11:53:36  <TrueBrain> isn't there already a page on the wiki saying almost the same?
11:53:50  <Ammler> I am checking right now
11:53:53  <Ammler> there are about 3 pages
11:54:03  <Ammler> a comparision with TTDPatch
11:54:09  <Ammler> another one with NewGRFs
11:54:21  <TrueBrain> lol
11:54:37  <Ammler> and a page which shows new Featues form major release to major release
11:55:25  <Ammler>
11:57:05  <TrueBrain> well, we need a nice summary for the frontpage
11:57:10  <TrueBrain> with not overdoing it
11:57:14  <TrueBrain> and possible links to the wiki for more info
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12:06:33  <dih> hey ho
12:09:17  <TrueBrain> hi dih :)
12:09:24  <dih> hey is you TrueBrain ?
12:10:21  <TrueBrain> you english speak do?
12:10:38  <dih> at times i try
12:10:40  <dih> :-P
12:10:55  <dih> oh - that was supposed to be 'how is you...
12:11:06  <TrueBrain> even so
12:11:08  <TrueBrain> not english ;)
12:11:13  <TrueBrain> but I am fine :) Working hard .. :)
12:11:14  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
12:11:47  <TrueBrain> and currently I seem to leak red liquid from my head
12:11:49  <TrueBrain> is that a bad thing?
12:12:44  <SmatZ> +	return (::IsTileType(tile, MP_CLEAR) && ::GetClearGround(tile) == CLEAR_ROCKS);
12:12:53  <SmatZ> errr wrong windoe
12:13:00  <TrueBrain> hehe
12:13:34  <dih> openttd_django.urls
12:13:49  <TrueBrain> dih: wrong channel
12:13:51  <dih> could it be that you have a "^ " too many infront of most lines
12:13:54  <dih> ah
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12:20:43  <dih> "an AI that is actually worthy of its name " <- LOL
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12:24:54  <dih> Ammler?
12:24:57  <dih> ah forget it :-P
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12:36:31  <Ammler> actually, waypoints are still no replacement for "dummy 1 tile stations" :-)
12:37:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r14249 /branches/noai/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
12:37:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: various landscape query routines (AITile.IsSnowTile, ..) (on request)
12:37:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: AITile.PlantTree(Rectangle) (on request)
12:38:09  <Eddi|zuHause> AI learning how to cheat the rating system?
12:40:08  <SmatZ> :)
12:40:25  <FauxFaux> <3
12:45:07  <Ammler> 1. run, now new things :-)
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13:04:37  <roboboy> whats the mercurial source path for cargodest
13:04:53  <TrueBrain>
13:05:13  <roboboy> thank you
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13:14:41  <roboboy> how long will it take mercurial to download all the files roughly?
13:15:15  <roboboy> its at adding changes and is working'
13:15:48  <roboboy> and I have a .hg dir
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13:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> the first checkout (hg clone) takes quite long
13:16:56  <Eddi|zuHause> the incremental ones (hg pull) don't take very long afterwards
13:17:02  <roboboy> ok
13:17:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't copy the files, you copy the whole repository (i.e. all changesets individually)
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13:23:50  <roboboy> do I compile the source just like any source?
13:24:13  <roboboy> once finished cloneing
13:26:28  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, ./configure && make
13:26:44  <Ammler> what do you think about?
13:27:05  <Ammler> links to wiki could be added too.
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13:28:11  <TrueBrain> looks good Ammler
13:28:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hey... i was thinking today... (in conjunction with "individual traffic"), how good would the system cope (pool size, memory usage, destination generation) when every tile was a station?
13:28:48  <dih> 15:27 < Eddi|zuHause> hey... i was thinking today... <- no way!
13:29:04  <Ammler> cheats can be removed...
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13:30:54  <Ammler> also replaced patches with advanced options
13:31:20  <Ammler> the dear translators should do that too ;-)
13:31:45  <glx> I did it a long time ago for french ;)
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13:32:37  <Eddi|zuHause> in this idea, passengers could "walk" from one "station" to an adjacent station, and continue to do so to their target. they will "walk" to a player's station and take their vehicles when they offer a better route to the destination. in later years, the passengers could "drive cars" along roads, and the evaluation of the "best route" would change
13:33:05  <Eddi|zuHause> that way, you would have to improve your network, or you won't get any further passengers
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13:33:32  <dih> did you sleep well Eddi?
13:33:34  <Ammler> hmm, now we need something for 32bpp
13:33:56  <Eddi|zuHause> also, you can get away with building a station 2km outside the village, without worrying about "catchment area"
13:34:02  <dih> support for 32 bit graphics
13:34:03  <Ammler> glx: the german translators are all dead...
13:34:10  * dih is here
13:34:19  <Celestar> catchment area are quickly disabled
13:34:19  <dih> i am alive :-P
13:34:24  <Eddi|zuHause> because the passengers would "walk" the way into the village
13:34:29  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: but to answer your question: not well
13:34:40  <Ammler> dih: I mean the official translators :P
13:34:50  <Ammler> or are you one of them?
13:34:58  <dih> you mean for translating the game strings?
13:35:02  <Ammler> yes.
13:35:06  <dih> yes i am one of them :-P
13:35:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there haven't been any updates to the german translation in months...
13:36:31  <dih> not true
13:36:35  <dih> there have been a few updates
13:36:39  <dih> small thingies
13:36:40  <ecke> is there any "stable" version with infrastucture sharing? nothing else only sharing
13:37:01  <dih> that is a cute request
13:37:11  <dih> you wanna patch something to your liking and call it stable ?
13:37:18  <Ammler> dih: it might be worth, you are trying to open OpenTTD and check the strings there too.
13:38:35  <Eddi|zuHause> dih: have you ever considered
13:38:47  <Eddi|zuHause> gnah
13:39:03  <Eddi|zuHause>
13:39:11  <dih> i have only been added to the translators a few weeks ago
13:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> and i made that diff half a year ago
13:40:23  * yorick congratulates dih
13:40:47  <roboboy> whats the difference between release and debug?
13:41:21  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: release is usually more optimised
13:41:25  <dih> roboby: i'll let you google those 2 words, or check wikipedia :-P
13:41:34  <roboboy> ok
13:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> roboboy: while debug makes it easier to see what is going on during the running system
13:42:35  <dih> MaSch just did like 41 strings in german....
13:46:02  <Eddi|zuHause> there were no translation updates between 20. March and 20. August
13:46:23  <dih> there were no commited updates....
13:46:25  <dih> that is something else
13:46:35  <dih> and that is not quite true
13:46:53  <Eddi|zuHause> only "apply changes from english.txt to all language files" inbetween
13:46:58  <Eddi|zuHause> no real translation
13:47:44  <dih> 21. august was one commit
13:48:04  <Eddi|zuHause> and 21. august is "between 20. march and 20. august"?
13:49:28  <dih> oh - i read 30th :-D
13:49:29  <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: if 20 march and 20 august in in different years ...
13:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause> "when do christmas and new year fall into the same year?"
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13:55:40  <Ammler> dih: a liesmich.txt would be nice
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13:57:35  <dih> Unexpected sprite. -> Unerwartete Cola
13:57:37  <dih> :-P
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13:58:13  <Eddi|zuHause> zitronengeschmackhaltiges Zuckerwasser
13:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> (that is likely the longest word written here in the past few months)
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14:00:29  <ecke> ... we play TiPP version but cometimes sync error... and now wehn client want to connect they dont see companies, when i was to se full cargo in goto i see crash....
14:00:53  <ecke> set
14:00:53  <Eddi|zuHause> we don't support patch packs here.
14:01:01  <ecke> ok ...
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14:01:42  <Eddi|zuHause> <- wtf?
14:01:54  <ecke> is there any possibility how to try fix these proplems while playing? ... i mean try to delete network ID ... or something
14:02:17  <Eddi|zuHause> ecke: make a savegame on the server, and restart the server
14:03:48  <ecke> and is there any others which can help? ... repack game... reset some variables ... dont use PBS ...?
14:04:11  <ecke> i would like some pack but only with sharing to minimaze problems
14:04:18  <Eddi|zuHause> patch packs are known to be unstable
14:04:24  <ecke> a dont want some smokes and others blafs
14:05:00  <Eddi|zuHause> track sharing used to have problems when combined with PBS
14:05:07  <ecke> i know... but how to minimaze these problems...
14:05:23  <ecke> yes thats why we dont use them
14:05:27  <Eddi|zuHause> other than "don't use track sharing"?
14:05:56  *** lobster_MB [] has quit []
14:05:58  <ecke> i switched pbs off in settings
14:07:06  <Eddi|zuHause> if you really only want track sharing, no other patch, then you can try to compile just this patch
14:07:21  <Eddi|zuHause> or check if there are precompiled binaries in the patch thread
14:07:43  <ecke> we have mostly huge rail system connected to each other a ... incidentally crash .... bad :/
14:08:02  * roboboy waits for visual studio
14:08:26  <ecke> Eddi|zuHause and is there any chance that sharing will be in stable soon?
14:09:00  <Eddi|zuHause> if "soon" means "within the next 2 years", maybe...
14:09:08  <ecke> :D
14:09:09  <ecke> ...
14:09:28  <Eddi|zuHause> in the current state, i wouldn't count on it
14:09:47  <ecke> so I really forward to signals in tunnels and bridges
14:09:57  <Ammler> ecke: we use sharing every half year, so it should be at least from time to time be a working patch there
14:09:59  <ecke> Eddi|zuHause why not? ... for unstablity
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14:10:26  <Ammler> (we=wwottdgd)
14:10:57  <Ammler> you could try the last wwottdgd patch
14:11:00  <yorick> "please define the CC/CXX environment to where it is located" <-- how to do that?
14:11:04  <ecke> Ammler .... i exactly dont understand
14:11:23  <ecke> Ammler you are developer of sharing?
14:11:40  <yorick> he isn't
14:11:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: with VS? you don't.
14:11:52  <yorick> Eddi: not with VS
14:11:54  <glx> yorick: it didn't detect gcc/g++
14:12:01  <yorick> I know that
14:12:08  <Eddi|zuHause> with all other environments, that should be already defined
14:12:26  <yorick> I can run gcc from bash
14:12:32  <yorick> so I think it's the variable
14:12:39  <Eddi|zuHause> export CC=`which gcc`
14:12:53  <yorick> thanks :-P
14:12:54  <Eddi|zuHause> export CXX=`which g++`
14:13:00  <Ammler> yorick: I am :P
14:13:06  <yorick> no you aren't
14:13:13  <Ammler> I wrote the most important patch for wwottdgd :P
14:13:58  <Ammler> ecke: well, he is right, I am not.
14:14:53  <ecke> Ammler but you know a lot of about sharing... if yes... could you send me topic where is newest version... I ll try to compile :D
14:15:26  <Ammler> ecke: there is one patch about IS, you should know that one
14:15:34  <yorick> Eddi: it did not work...
14:15:38  <Ammler> one thread
14:16:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: your environment is screwed
14:16:24  <ecke> Ammler I play OTTD twotimes in year :) ... so
14:16:28  <yorick> I'm just installing a new enviroment, because my old one was screwed
14:16:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: what's the output of ./configure?
14:16:41  <Ammler> ecke:
14:17:05  <yorick>
14:17:18  <Ammler> ecke: last event:
14:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause> what does windres do?
14:18:45  <yorick> ?
14:19:02  <Yexo> man windres: windres - manipulate Windows resources.
14:19:12  <yorick> Eddi: not being installed
14:19:23  <ecke> max clients number is 55 ... holy :D
14:19:30  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: then you forgot a step in installing mingw/msys?
14:19:32  <ecke> 55 players building on one map?
14:19:44  <hylje> thats the point goddamn
14:19:45  <ecke> is it stable game?
14:19:59  <Eddi|zuHause> ecke: with tracksharing that is like 7 players per company
14:20:01  <yorick> Eddi: where should windres be?
14:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: installed :p
14:20:28  <ecke> Eddi|zuHause looks good... how long is one game?
14:20:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: follow exactly the instructions on the wiki
14:21:02  <Eddi|zuHause> ecke: i have not taken part there... i'd guess one weekend
14:21:08  <yorick> yes, it failed compiling wget
14:21:37  <Eddi|zuHause> compiling?!?
14:21:39  <yorick> but the wget errors are not helpful
14:21:44  <ecke> Build with the Terrain. You either go around/over/through or you don't go at all! We are going to add a grf to significantly increase terraforming costs. Why? Because we want to preserve the landscape, amongst other things.  ..... so thats nice .. but without signals in tunnels and bridges
14:21:44  <yorick> yes, compiling
14:21:54  <Ammler> ecke: we played 2 games yet
14:22:06  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you compile anything when installing mingw?
14:22:09  <Ammler> one a year ago, the other 2 months
14:22:28  <Ammler> those games took around 30 hours.
14:22:31  <yorick> Eddi: because you need to install libs
14:22:36  <ecke> Ammler and this version which you play.. is it "stable"
14:22:50  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: you can get BINARIES.
14:22:53  <Ammler> it was stable "enough"
14:23:09  <ecke> no desync and others?
14:23:26  <Ammler> not no, but few
14:23:44  <ecke> but game was finished by you not by bug? :))
14:23:46  <yorick> Eddi: from what is described in the wiki, "Compiling wget"
14:23:56  <Ammler> last game, we had trouble with replace as all 0.6er has
14:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: skip that part. get wget binaries
14:24:26  <yorick> installing binutils should do
14:24:39  <yorick> :-P
14:24:44  <dih> Ammler: we could start planing #3
14:24:44  <ecke> Ammler ... our games mostly finish by bug or desync :/
14:25:16  <ecke> Ammler ... replace? ... what is this problem?
14:25:21  <yorick> Eddi: the binaries sometimes fail at being vista-compatible
14:25:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: my philosophy is: do not compile any code that you did not modify yourself
14:25:44  <Eddi|zuHause> for everything else there should be binary packages
14:25:53  <yorick> curiously, the wget mingwPORT includes wget, so it can download and compile itself :-p
14:26:20  <Ammler> dih: you want to make next game in 2 weeks :P
14:26:38  <dih> hehe
14:26:43  <dih> i would not manage that this time
14:26:45  <dih> hehe
14:27:31  <Ammler> we wait for cargodest in trunk :-)
14:27:46  <ecke> Ammler ... where can I download your version?
14:27:47  <Ammler> cargodest with IS could be fun
14:28:17  <Celestar> Ammler: we're planning that (=
14:28:17  <Ammler> ecke: let me check
14:28:36  <Ammler> hehe :-D
14:28:53  <Celestar> at least peter1138 and I are dreaming of it :P
14:29:39  <Eddi|zuHause> but when you divide into local and long-distance companies, the local companies will hopelessly go down with the negative transfer income
14:30:35  <ecke> "Ammler: ecke: let me check" ?
14:30:56  <Ammler> the wwottdgd server is currently down
14:31:04  <Eddi|zuHause> ecke: he must search where he put it :p
14:31:15  <ecke> Eddi|zuHause :D ok
14:31:27  <Ammler> in which "ecke"
14:31:44  <Eddi|zuHause> :p
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14:31:50  <yorick> "sys/socket.h: No such file or directory" hmpf
14:32:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: really... don't compile anything...
14:32:43  <Celestar> <= I do _NOT_ like the tone of this guy
14:32:49  <Eddi|zuHause> the person who wrote compiling in the wiki is an idiot...
14:32:55  <yorick> still, why does it miss sys/socket.h
14:34:53  <yorick> Eddi: the latest available wget binary is 1.11.9
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14:35:10  <yorick> 1.11.4*
14:35:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: so?
14:35:20  <yorick> that's ancient
14:35:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: so?
14:35:53  <yorick> ancient isn't good if you are trying to upgrade
14:36:37  <Eddi|zuHause> wget --version
14:36:38  <Eddi|zuHause> GNU Wget 1.11.1
14:37:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it can't be that ancient...
14:37:06  <Celestar> bbl
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14:37:18  <yorick> latest is Wget 1.9
14:37:27  <Eddi|zuHause> 11>9?
14:38:13  <Ammler> ecke:
14:38:15  <yorick> 1.11.9*
14:38:54  <Ammler> but that isn't the final one :-)
14:39:00  <Ammler> it is only the final client
14:39:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: you really suck... you are now on /ignore... i can't handle you anymore...
14:39:24  <yorick> :(
14:39:45  <ecke> Ammler ... ou i think you could send me win32 and linux version (client, server) ... :))
14:40:01  <Ammler> ha
14:40:04  <ecke> :)
14:40:23  <Ammler> well, I check... :P
14:40:54  <Ammler> ecke: win32 client:
14:40:59  <ecke> ohh .... thx ... I am looking forward to play, without errors
14:41:28  <Ammler> hmm
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14:41:45  <Ammler> I will add those links to the wiki, else I spam here too much...
14:42:20  <ecke> :)
14:43:32  <yorick> it should auto-disable checking libpng and freetype if zlib is not found, instead of error
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14:44:28  <Rubidium> nah, it should give a big error when zlib is not found
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14:46:05  <roboboy> gnight soon
14:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause> bigger than the one when sdl is not found (and which still everyone ignores)?
14:46:45  <yorick> I dont care about sdl, I don't need sdl, and I don't use sdl
14:46:58  <ecke> it will be nice ... so now I am ready to play... but I know man, he has this ... around 30 servers... he would like to run ottd public server...  he has debian on server... so if you could send me files for linux ... and if I will have still power... I could run server for wwottdgd3 or other... server have 2Gb/s ... and its really high performance server
14:47:10  <yorick> Rubidium: --without-zlib should disable the other warnings then
14:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: i meant "no videodriver"
14:47:18  <yorick> :)
14:47:43  <Rubidium> without zlib makes openttd more unuseable than missing sdl
14:48:10  <yorick> just it has no saveload compatibility...
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14:48:28  <glx> savegames are compatible ;)
14:48:39  <yorick> glx: if you unpack them first
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14:48:56  <Eddi|zuHause> he means making savegames.
14:48:58  <glx> any other client can open uncompressed saves
14:49:11  <yorick> yes
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14:52:57  <ecke> Ammler ^^^
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14:56:09  <Ammler> ecke:
14:57:11  <ecke> Ammler nice... i see that no grf for trams in pack
14:57:27  <Ammler> of course
14:58:44  <dih> "service non-stop at"
14:58:47  <dih> a non-stop service :-P
14:58:53  <dih> never stop servicing :-D
14:59:02  <ecke> you dont use trams in wwottdgd?
14:59:17  <Ammler> we used around 50 NewGRFs
14:59:31  <Ammler> I am sure, there was a tramset
15:00:20  <ecke> 50? :D
15:00:28  <Ammler> well, maybe more
15:00:42  <ecke> could you add all files to web? :)
15:00:47  <Ammler> no
15:00:53  <ecke> i want to try :)
15:01:17  <Ammler> let me look for the start save
15:03:27  <ecke> hmm ... in your version.... when the asiastar go uphill ... its too much slow down
15:03:48  <Ammler> ecke: default settings
15:04:16  *** roboboy [3aad2910@] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
15:04:36  <ecke> what do you think... can i use settings from tiPP or is it risky?
15:06:05  <ecke> i ll try it
15:07:01  <dih> Eddi|zuHause: 85 strings on next commit ;-)
15:07:07  <Ammler> ecke: try that save:
15:07:21  <ecke> timeout
15:07:32  <ecke> i have timeout from this web
15:09:04  *** Vikthor [] has joined #openttd
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15:11:43  * yorick finally completed installing a sane enviroment
15:13:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14250 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files): (log message trimmed)
15:13:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-09-05 15:13:08
15:13:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 9 fixed by TrueTenacity (9)
15:13:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 19 fixed by tperic (19)
15:13:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 5 fixed, 50 changed by Hadez (55)
15:13:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 5 fixed by habell (5)
15:13:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: estonian - 9 fixed by kristjans (9)
15:14:09  <peter1138> Oh, translations are no longer committed 'by' mihamix :)
15:14:39  <TrueBrain> peter1138: for a long time that is already
15:15:13  <peter1138> Only a month.
15:15:52  *** thvdburgt [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
15:15:55  <yorick> would it be possible for the makefile.bundle to support 7zip?
15:16:07  <TrueBrain> peter1138: well, ever since svn+ssh was introduced ;)
15:16:31  <TrueBrain> even more as MiHaMiX himself didn't commit anything for like 6 months :p
15:17:02  <Rubidium> if 7zip has a command line tool then you can add that
15:17:17  <dih> hehe
15:17:42  <yorick> Rubidium: 7zip is a commandline utility with a gui
15:17:42  <Rubidium> otherwise you need to install autoit or so and script it that way
15:18:48  <TrueBrain> any pack-tool which comes with a GUI can't be any good
15:20:38  <orudge> yorick: if we already support zip, tar.gz and tar.bz2, though, do we really need another format though, imho?
15:20:59  <yorick> orudge: do you support zip for windows?
15:21:14  <orudge> do I support it?
15:21:20  <orudge> well, Windows binaries are distributed as .exe and .zip, no?
15:21:29  <orudge> and source is in .zip, .tgz and .tbz2
15:21:39  <yorick> those are built from linux
15:21:44  <dih> so?
15:21:50  <dih> what's the issue yorick?
15:21:59  <TrueBrain> if you make a .zip in linux, you can't read it from windows?
15:22:03  <glx> a zip is a zip
15:22:05  <orudge> quite
15:22:07  <dih> aye
15:22:26  <dih> and it's not like 7z cannot extract zip tar tar.gz or tar.bz2
15:22:28  <TrueBrain> @kick yorick capitals
15:22:28  *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [capitals]
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15:22:34  <dih> hihi
15:22:40  <dih> 27
15:22:42  <glx> make bundle_zip
15:22:44  <orudge> yorick: does the makefile not let you do that using the infozip `zip' tool?
15:22:51  <yorick> glx: error: zip: command not found
15:22:55  <orudge> well
15:22:56  <glx> install it
15:22:56  <TrueBrain> mingw has 'zip' tool too (he CLI variant)
15:22:57  <orudge> download zip
15:23:01  <orudge>
15:23:05  <yorick> I can't find it for windows
15:23:09  <orudge> look harder
15:23:12  <TrueBrain> orudge: mingw has a zip CLI Too
15:23:13  <dih> that is something else yorick
15:23:14  <glx>
15:23:23  <orudge>
15:23:28  <orudge> binaries for everyy OS imaginable ;)
15:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> dih: they better be good :p
15:23:34  <dih> not finding something does not mean it's a good reason to add something one can find to a project
15:23:44  <dih> Eddi|zuHause:
15:24:06  <TrueBrain> and it is not like we don't make zip-bundles on a windows machine :)
15:24:29  <TrueBrain> (lol, it would be really bad, if zip CLI wasn't avialable on windows :) Would be fun ;))
15:24:52  * orudge recalls the days of PKZIP and PKUNZIP in DOS
15:24:57  <Doorslammer> :O
15:25:01  <Eddi|zuHause> "Schliessung von Industrien" <- you're not serious about that, are you?
15:25:02  <TrueBrain> and tbav!
15:25:03  <Doorslammer> Please dont recall those
15:25:12  <orudge> and PKZIPSFX!
15:25:12  <glx> I still have pkzip and pkunzip somewhere
15:25:17  <Doorslammer> :S
15:25:19  <glx> same for arj
15:25:25  <orudge> lzh! arc!
15:25:27  <TrueBrain> lha ;)
15:25:33  <TrueBrain> (morphos needs thatone :p)
15:25:33  <Eddi|zuHause> "Schließen von Industrien" please
15:25:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and "Eröffnen" likewise
15:26:49  <TrueBrain> I have to say, I am suprised 7zip can do better compression than bzip2
15:26:55  <TrueBrain> that in this age they still can improve such tools
15:27:04  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_DEFAULT_SIGNAL_PBS                           :Fortgeschritten
15:27:06  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONFIG_PATCHES_CYCLE_SIGNAL_PBS                             :nur Erweiterte
15:27:14  <Eddi|zuHause> very inconsistent
15:27:15  <dih> was not me :-P
15:27:21  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: fix it
15:27:21  <dih> hihi
15:27:35  <Ammler> TrueBrain: 7zip rocks
15:27:49  <Ammler> it makes also better zips then other zip tools
15:27:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "Bitte Ihren Name eingeben" <- wtf?
15:27:57  <yorick> ^^
15:28:05  <TrueBrain> Ammler: lol, is it possible to make better or worse zip files?
15:28:10  <TrueBrain> I thought zip was zip :p
15:28:36  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: but 7zip != zip, i.e. 7zip's files aren't readable by plain zip
15:28:37  <Ammler> grfpack is about 5% smaller with 7zip zip then with zip zip :-)
15:28:52  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: well, dah :) Like bzip2 is not readable by zip :p
15:29:08  <TrueBrain> but I assume Ammler was refering to a zip, and not 7zip
15:29:18  <Eddi|zuHause> "Klicke um nach größe zu sortieren" <- comma before "um" and "Größe"
15:29:23  <TrueBrain> (7zip can produce gz, bzip2, and other formats, as far as I know)
15:29:32  <TrueBrain> Ammler: funny :)
15:29:34  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: do it in private
15:29:48  <dih> Ammler: compare 7z with bz2 ;-)
15:29:57  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: better yet:
15:30:10  <TrueBrain> (and ask for an account)
15:30:13  <TrueBrain> (not send your problems there)
15:30:16  <Ammler> 7za a -l -tzip -mx=9 $ ottdc_grfpack
15:30:20  <dih> Eddi|zuHause: mailto
15:30:34  <TrueBrain> @spam
15:30:36  <TrueBrain> mwhahahaha
15:30:45  <yorick> it can do that?
15:30:50  <dih> TrueBrain: you know who filters the spam on that address?
15:30:58  <DorpsGek> Initiated SPAM
15:31:08  <TrueBrain> dih: doh!
15:31:10  <TrueBrain> yorick: clearly
15:31:21  <yorick> I detect @say
15:31:37  <DorpsGek> yorick! LIE
15:31:50  <TrueBrain> I gave too many people control over DorpsGek :p
15:32:04  <Ammler> we create our packs that way:
15:32:04  <glx> really ?
15:32:35  <Ammler> the resulting sizes:
15:33:55  <TrueBrain> Ammler: you have slightly better results by doing:
15:34:01  <TrueBrain> tar cvf test.tar <files>
15:34:04  <TrueBrain> bzip -9 test.tar
15:34:25  <TrueBrain> (depending on your version of bzip btw, mine has 9 as default :p)
15:34:56  <Ammler> yeah, should be here too
15:34:59  <Belugas> yeah... 4th mug of coffee since this morning
15:34:59  <Belugas> I
15:35:04  <Belugas> M NOT NERVOUIS AT ALL!!!!!
15:35:16  *** Belugas was kicked from #openttd by Belugas [capitals]
15:35:21  <Ammler> but those packs are done by dihs server
15:35:25  <dih> i love tose black shirts
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15:35:31  <dih> hihi
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15:35:44  <Ammler> dih: do you know your default bzip2 ?
15:35:50  <dih> ?
15:35:58  <Ammler> compression rate
15:35:58  <dih> no sorry - never met him in person
15:36:11  <dih> nope
15:36:32  <Ammler> also nice is, bzip2 is almost the same as gzip
15:36:40  <dih> tis not
15:36:46  <Ammler> well, not nice, but silly.
15:36:49  <dih> bz2 is way better
15:36:55  <dih> compression wise
15:36:59  <TrueBrain> Ammler: bzip2 is only better in text-files
15:37:02  <TrueBrain> not in binary files
15:37:04  <Ammler> maybe somewhere else, but not with tar.
15:37:11  <dih> ?
15:37:41  <Ammler> TrueBrain: does that matter in tars?
15:37:46  <yorick> s/in/with
15:37:49  <TrueBrain> Ammler: LOL!
15:38:00  <Ammler> ok, it does :P
15:38:01  <TrueBrain> a tar is just a small file-system or how ever you want to compare it to
15:38:02  <dih> hihi
15:38:05  <TrueBrain> there is no compression
15:38:09  <TrueBrain> it just puts files inside a single file
15:38:17  <orudge> a tape archive!
15:38:20  <Ammler> and gzip checks, what is in tar
15:38:23  <TrueBrain> so a tar of text-files is still much better compressed with bzip2 than with gzip
15:38:27  <orudge> we should distribute OpenTTD on tape
15:38:35  <orudge> we could sell them in the new shop!
15:38:44  <dih> yay
15:38:48  <dih> tapes rock :-P
15:38:55  <orudge> we might have to sell tape drives to go with them though...
15:39:04  <dih> nah
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15:39:14  <dih> nobody wants a tape drive...
15:39:17  <dih> but tapes... :-P
15:39:17  <TrueBrain> tape .. haven't used htat in AGES
15:39:27  * dih has a tape drive for backup
15:39:35  <fjb> Duct tape?
15:39:41  <dih> quack
15:39:44  * yorick also has a tape drive for msx thingies
15:40:05  <TrueBrain> well, I am off, doing some rock-climbing for the next few hours
15:40:06  <dih> only 69 strings in need of translation for ger
15:40:06  <Ammler> almost 20%
15:40:06  <TrueBrain> hav efun all!
15:40:13  <yorick> don't fall!
15:40:20  <dih> enjoy TB
15:40:20  <TrueBrain> I will fall
15:40:21  <TrueBrain> many times
15:40:26  <Ammler> and nothing with newgrfs
15:40:37  <dih> TB is falling is falling is falling
15:40:41  <orudge> enjoy, TrueBrain
15:40:44  <yorick> don't use incompatible newgrfs
15:40:45  <dih> TB falles like a sweet spring rain....
15:40:47  <TrueBrain> well .. I am going to try 6b walls .. they are HARD
15:40:58  <dih> well they would be
15:41:02  <dih> try matraces
15:41:04  <TrueBrain> my fingers will hurt .. oh well
15:41:11  <TrueBrain> bye :)
15:41:13  <dih> :-)
15:41:24  <Ammler> 7zip is much better in compression with similar binaries, somehow possilbe?
15:41:51  <Ammler> like if I compress 2 versions of same NewGRF
15:41:53  <yorick> yes, it has a better binary compression algorithm, apparently
15:43:33  <dih> psyche :-P
15:45:04  <dih> orudge: those black shirts would look awsome with code all over them :-D
15:45:32  <yorick> dih: I did some discoveries...bruteforcing a server without being ingame with a password >3 chars is not going to work, it has a limit of 256 ticks for the join process, and bruteforcing slows the server down quite a bit
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15:46:35  <yorick> yes, I was testing how much time it would take to bruteforce, and if it would have any noticable effect does flood the debug console, and if you try to clear it, it crashes
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15:46:50  <dih> hehe
15:46:54  <dih> that's good to know :-P
15:46:59  <yorick> (no, I won't publish the script) :-p
15:48:04  <SmatZ> it crashes the script or ottd?
15:48:15  <yorick> it crashes openttd if developer is set to 2
15:48:21  <yorick> and you want to do "clear"
15:48:40  <yorick> but I haven't been able to reproduce
15:49:12  <dih> well - then that is a silly statement with 'it crashes' should rather be 'it crashed' :_P
15:49:59  <dih> dos protection would still not be a bad thing!
15:50:18  <yorick> but if you are in the game, you can go on bruteforcing on and on and on and on and on until you have the password
15:50:37  <dih> yep
15:50:42  <dih> sure you can
15:50:46  <yorick> you do slow the server down
15:50:50  <dih> and you can time it so that the players dont notice it
15:51:23  <dih> just like copy and paste does if you dont limit the pasting speed
15:51:44  <yorick> but copy-paste only does it for a few seconds
15:51:52  <dih> still noticeable
15:52:19  <yorick> bruteforcing is far more noticable
15:52:32  <yorick> you can't even move the mouse if you have a gui server
15:52:50  <dih> yorick: TIME it
15:53:12  <yorick> you have experience?
15:53:41  <dih> just need to use your thinker
15:53:56  <dih> if you dont want somebody to notice something that takes a bunch of time
15:54:03  <dih> you slow the process down, do it bit by bit
15:54:11  <yorick> my thinker is currently working on installing boost on a sane build-enviroment
15:55:47  <Ammler> made test with 7zip and source of ottd:
15:56:02  <Ammler> 7zip zip is indeed not better for text files
15:56:31  <yorick> then it is a bad idea to use if for text files
15:57:03  <Ammler> well, it is also not worse :P
15:57:24  <Ammler> and 7z self is about 20% smaller then bzip2
15:57:39  <dih> if it's not much better it's no use adding it, is it now
15:57:55  <Ammler> ?
16:00:06  <dih> laters
16:00:56  <Ammler> there was one better compressor then 7zip but ugly slow...
16:01:03  <yorick> lha?
16:01:17  <Ammler> doesn't 7zip use that?
16:01:38  <yorick> hm, yes
16:01:43  <FauxFaux> lzma?
16:01:51  <yorick> yes that
16:01:57  <SmatZ> uc2
16:02:44  <SmatZ> if you want another fine compressors ;)
16:03:14  <orudge> we should compress everything using lzip
16:03:30  <planetmaker> I can compress anything into one bit. But the key to decode would be quite long then :P
16:03:43  <orudge> aww, lzip has been removed from sourceforge :(
16:03:48  *** Rexxars [~rexxars@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:03:56  <SmatZ> what is lzip?
16:04:00  <orudge>
16:04:22  <yorick> wasn't there some rainbow color format, where they claimed to store 256GB on a sheet of paper?
16:04:54  <SmatZ> ah :-D
16:06:25  <FauxFaux> yorick: I thought it was closer to 400kb in any kind of reliable way?
16:06:29  <fjb> You can compress every file down to the size of one byte.
16:07:54  <FauxFaux> ~30 million dots on a piece of a4 at 600dpi -> <4mb in black'n'white.
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16:16:19  <fjb> Moin frosch123
16:17:52  <frosch123> quak fjb
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16:18:24  <Ammler> SmatZ: I miss the time on that table
16:19:07  <fjb> Time on a table? Isn't that called a clock?
16:20:54  <yorick> no, it is called time on that table
16:21:49  <Ammler> :-P
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16:31:51  <SmatZ> Ammler: what table?
16:31:57  <SmatZ> ahhh
16:32:21  <SmatZ> for example, sorted by compression time :)
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16:33:46  <Belugas> Ammler, just put your watch on the table ^_^
16:33:54  <Rexxars> "Failed to find a graphics set." - what?
16:34:11  <yorick> Rexxars: upgrade to newer revision
16:34:19  <Rexxars> I just compiled from svn
16:34:26  <yorick> subversion?
16:34:36  <Rexxars> ..yes?
16:34:41  <yorick> on windows?
16:34:46  <Rexxars> correct
16:34:54  <yorick> try unix2dossing your obg files
16:35:01  <yorick> in the bin/data directory
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16:40:00  <Celestar> hm
16:40:10  <Celestar> can a failed autosave be a desync reason?
16:42:33  <Rexxars> yorick: still getting problems :/
16:44:15  <frosch123> Celestar: btw. do you still suspect autoreplace in cargodest to be a desyncer?
16:44:27  <Celestar> frosch123: suspect yes.
16:44:40  <Celestar> frosch123: I have a route-leak somewhere
16:44:58  <Celestar> it might be autorenew-related
16:45:01  <frosch123> Note that the massreplace in the depot is the only autoreplace thingie that can cause desyncs.
16:45:07  <yorick> "Windows can't remove file, directory not found"
16:45:51  <yorick> "Do you want to look for the file to delete?"
16:46:03  <frosch123> so maybe in your next big test game, only allow a few players to use that function. If only they desync you could identity autoreplace to be the problem
16:46:30  <yorick> but what if that causes everyone to desync?
16:48:23  <frosch123> well, either use a dedicated server, or do not allow the server-client to use it
16:49:46  <Celestar> frosch123: I don't think it's autoreplace or cargodest; much rather the interface between them both
16:50:31  <frosch123> anyway, for normal autoreplace everything is executed in parallel on all clients. So it can crash or whatever, but not desync
16:50:50  <frosch123> only a player clicking the massreplace button in depot can cause desyncs
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17:21:19  <Wolf01> hello
17:21:35  *** Tim [] has quit [Quit: Trillian (]
17:23:07  <Elukka> hi
17:24:43  <Wolf01> I'm sad again :(
17:24:46  <Wolf01> I found another bug
17:24:50  <Wolf01> when opening the console
17:25:05  <Wolf01> the main toolbar stay always on top
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17:30:29  <glx> and?
17:31:00  <glx> it's not a bug, main toolbar and status bar are always on top
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17:41:51  <Celestar> frosch123: I know everything is executed in parallel. but if i did wrong calls during the autoreplace ...
17:42:47  <Celestar> it will "autorepair" after a reset of the routing system, or a reconnect or whatever.
17:43:16  <frosch123> heh, but for depot massreplace it is _not_ executed in parallel :)
17:44:22  <Wolf01> glx I can't see what's written under if they are always on top!
17:45:52  <frosch123> Wolf01: You can scroll with shift-up/down
17:48:50  <Wolf01> ok, but it's not nice... console should be always on top like everywhere
17:52:11  <Celestar> ... some people on the forums are really ungrateful gits
17:52:56  <Belugas> welcome to "reality"
17:52:58  <Belugas> hehe
17:54:21  <Elukka> hmm
17:54:27  <Elukka> has anyony ever done scenarios for ECS?
17:54:38  <Celestar> TrueBrain: need a compile :P
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17:55:21  <Belugas> Elukka, more than once
17:55:51  <Celestar> damn
17:55:55  <Celestar> I have misplaced my TV
17:56:34  <glx> Celestar: mine is behind me
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17:58:10  * Belugas thinks Celestar's tv must be quite small to be misplaced
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17:58:50  <Elukka> sorry, had to reboot, vista thought it an apt time to go cuckoo
17:59:52  <Celestar> Belugas: USB adaptor (DVB-T). about as large as an USB stick
18:04:09  * Celestar is happy that KDE's device selector opens data DVDs in the "media player" and video DVDs in the file browser :P
18:04:52  <glx> hmm but video DVDs are data DVDs
18:05:26  <Celestar> note to self: DVD playback + make -j3 don't together well
18:05:39  <glx> single core?
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18:05:56  <Celestar> glx: yeah.
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18:06:05  <Celestar> glx: my new notebook is still somewhere in shipping
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18:10:36  <Celestar> peter1138: I think I found it
18:10:52  <Celestar> at least one of them
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18:52:36  <peter1138> Gah, the widest keyboard standard I can find is too narrow by 4cm.
18:53:55  <fjb> Too narrow for what?
18:54:03  <peter1138> *stand
18:54:26  <Rexxars> what kind of monsterous keyboard do you have?
18:54:31  <fjb> Oh. Cut your keyboard.
18:55:55  <Wolf01> I have a weird narrow keyboard
18:56:04  <Wolf01> it's like the laptop one
18:56:43  <Wolf01> the keys are in a strange position, like the del between the right ctrl and the alt keys
18:56:59  <Wolf01> I hate it
18:57:04  <Wolf01> do you want it?
18:57:14  <Wolf01> only 40cm wide
18:58:01  <Wolf01> and it have the numpad too!
18:58:20  <peter1138> Blah, everyone assumes computer keyboard :o
18:58:33  <Belugas> lol
18:58:51  <Celestar> A normal keyboard is 148cm, is it not?
18:58:51  <Wolf01> I have a piano keyboard too
18:58:56  <Celestar> 88 keys
18:58:58  <Belugas> no one noticed the "stand" iguess :)
18:59:30  <peter1138> Celestar, it is about that. Its rubber feet are 115cm apart.
18:59:36  <Ammler> @seen xaha*
18:59:36  <DorpsGek> Ammler: I haven't seen anyone matching xaha*.
18:59:42  <Celestar> peter1138: I know that problem
18:59:47  <Wolf01> I thought the stand was a support like the ones you can use to attach the keyboard to the desktop -.-'''
18:59:49  <Mucht> @seen xaho*
18:59:49  <DorpsGek> Mucht: xaho* could be xahodo (2 weeks, 2 days, 3 hours, 26 minutes, and 33 seconds ago) or xahodo|afk (15 weeks, 6 days, 9 hours, 16 minutes, and 44 seconds ago)
18:59:58  <Celestar> peter1138: well not at home because I don't have keyboards. Only real (Grand) pianos
19:00:06  <peter1138> Plural? :o
19:00:13  <Celestar> peter1138: two
19:00:24  <peter1138> :o
19:00:33  <peter1138> Do you live in a mansion?
19:00:39  <Celestar> one Yamaha, 172cm and a real one :P
19:00:54  <Celestar> peter1138: normal ... how do you call it .... semi-detached(?) house?
19:01:05  <peter1138> I could probably fit one upright piano in, but not a grand.
19:05:34  <peter1138> Maybe I could build something out of wood...
19:05:46  <peter1138> Although knowning my skills it'll wobble.
19:05:50  <peter1138> *knowing
19:06:49  <peter1138>
19:06:51  <Celestar> peter1138: apparently, I found it (=
19:06:52  <peter1138> ^ How... ugly.
19:07:45  <Celestar> peter1138: the desync I mean :P
19:08:01  <peter1138> Oh... didn't you say that before? :p
19:08:12  <Celestar> we've tested it somewhat meanwhile :P
19:09:04  <fjb> Schimmel Pianos are build about 50km from here.
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19:10:14  <Celestar> wb Progman
19:12:54  <fjb> They usually look way better.
19:13:10  <Celestar> nothing like a nice Steinway (=
19:19:41  <peter1138> Rubidium, what does 'Toggle Palette' do if no NewGRF is selected?
19:19:57  <Belugas> mmh... I beg to differ: a Gibson LesPaul
19:20:16  <Belugas> Now we're talking!
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20:03:08  <Zuu> With my self-compiled builds (using MS VS Express 2005) I get a white line under each bullet (checked menu item) in the configuration menu. This happen on r14250 on clean trunk even if I put my compiled .exe in the same directory as last nightly. Last nightly downloaded pre-compiled however don't suffer from this.
20:03:34  <Wolf01> 'night
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20:04:09  * Zuu thinks of the pallette changes in trunk, but my own builds fails even if they are placed in the same directory as pre-compiled binaries of last nightly. | earlier I did not have this problem.
20:10:43  <fjb> Yahoo is soooooo stupid.
20:16:59  <peter1138> Is it?
20:19:52  <fjb> Yes. They don't accept a valid email address and their captchas are unreadable.
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20:34:14  <Ammler> fjb: you still looking for a free mail account :-)
20:34:51  <fjb> No, I need access to a mailing list hosted there.
20:35:12  <peter1138> Bah, where's my solder?
20:36:37  <fjb> At the last place you are looking for it.
20:36:50  <Belugas> at the store ^_^
20:36:57  * Belugas goes home
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20:39:06  <peter1138> Hah, no, it was in my toolbox...
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20:39:27  <fjb> And why is my S/370 not booting?
20:46:26  <Celestar> peter1138: we're stable now \o/ (at least without newgrfs)
20:49:15  <Rubidium> Celestar: not running with many many RVs on many routers apparantly :)
20:49:30  <Rubidium> and nobody's playing with waypoints
20:50:01  <Celestar> Rubidium: elaborate (=
20:50:34  <Rubidium> the elusive waypoint desync I hear many people talking about
20:51:26  <Rubidium> and well... the vehicle hash can cause desyncs with RVs
20:51:32  <Celestar> We don't need waypoints
20:51:48  <Rubidium> maybe even with vehicles other than RVs
20:51:53  <Celestar> and I dunno, we only have 32 RVs at the moment. We used to have 200 in other games
20:51:57  <Celestar> 250 trains currently
20:52:14  <Rubidium> though I haven't found an elegant and effective fix for it
20:52:30  * Celestar checks the profile
20:52:56  <Celestar> :o
20:53:01  <Celestar> the blitter has lost #1 position
20:53:20  <Celestar> and slipped to second
20:53:33  <Rubidium> now it's Sleep?
20:53:42  <Celestar> TrainLocoHandler
20:54:57  <Celestar> debug 1 btw :P
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20:55:24  <Celestar> woha
20:55:33  <Celestar> the profile is 2MB alone
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20:56:48  <Celestar>
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20:58:39  <Celestar> ok I think I can move on in cargodest
20:58:45  <Celestar> finish up the GUI somehow
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21:07:30  <ecke> do anyone have r13683 win32 version?
21:07:52  <Rubidium> why would you want that version?
21:08:46  <ecke> because i need create save for wwottdgd/2 version
21:09:20  <Rubidium> wouldn't it be better to use said patched version?
21:11:50  * Celestar rofls
21:12:30  <Celestar> who know Star Wars in "SchwÀbisch"? :P
21:12:44  <Rubidium> apparantly you do
21:14:17  <Celestar> sorry it's something for the germans among us :P
21:14:38  <ecke> Rubidium ... patched version?
21:14:45  <ecke> patched version of what
21:15:06  <Zuu> ecke: patched for wwottdgd/2 perhaps
21:15:07  <Rubidium> the openttd wwottdgd/2 wasn't a stock OpenTTD binary
21:15:21  <Rubidium> someone modified some trunk revision
21:15:38  <ecke> problem of this version is that when i started dedicated server.. i cant create company
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21:16:14  <Zuu> ecke: I think that was intended as there was quite some work with the user/company management done to the server.
21:16:34  <Zuu> To help the admins/moderators to admin the wwottdgd2 server.
21:17:14  <Celestar> GNAH why does my family suck that much :S
21:20:33  * Celestar looks for an approprieate English expressen
21:20:38  <Celestar> expression*
21:21:22  <Celestar> "to tick s.o. off" ..
21:22:32  <ecke> Zuu i know
21:22:38  <ecke> but its "stable"
21:23:40  <ecke> i would like this version... but with possibility of creating companies
21:24:09  <Celestar> good night everyone
21:24:09  <Zuu> It had a weierd failure during wwottdgd2, so I don't know if I could call it stable...
21:25:55  <Ammler> ecke: did you try my proposal?
21:26:27  <ecke> Ammler proposal?
21:27:13  <ecke> yes
21:27:39  <ecke> i write dih, p...., and there ... loading is not functional
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21:30:21  <Ammler> not sure, it might also be there is patch setting for enabling company creation..
21:31:20  <peter1138> Woot, my creation works :D
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21:33:23  <peter1138> Rubidium, oh, so I was right with my guess?
21:33:30  <peter1138> Or is that just a possibility.
21:33:36  <peter1138> (Vehicle position hash in road vehicle code)
21:37:33  <ecke> Ammler ... so now... i am finding another version with IS ...
21:41:19  <SmatZ> peter1138: yes, different order of vehicles in the hash table
21:41:47  <SmatZ> problem is that enforcing the same order (by v->index) slows the game by ~7% on a test game
21:42:13  <SmatZ> so best vehicle has to be chosen somehow
21:42:49  <SmatZ> there already two patches for that...
21:42:51  <peter1138> Enforcing order where?
21:43:35  <SmatZ> peter1138: in the hash table
21:43:58  <SmatZ> eg. the v->next_new_hash chain is ordered by v->index
21:44:55  <peter1138> What about, where the result is used, find the 'best' index if there is more than one vehicle?
21:45:16  <peter1138> Depends how rare it is.
21:46:43  <peter1138> 4 phono sockets for £1.29 + 1 1/4" stereo jack for £1.49 = new headphone splitter :D
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21:53:51  <peter1138> Belugas, is newgrf_industries.cpp:268 right?
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22:16:20  <TrueBrain> boe!
22:16:24  <TrueBrain> (was that scary?)
22:16:34  <Prof_Frink> Face of Boe?
22:17:01  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: yes
22:17:27  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: just me being here, or what I said?
22:18:46  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: what you said
22:18:56  <TrueBrain> k
22:18:59  <TrueBrain> just checking ;)
22:18:59  <SmatZ> :-)
22:19:05  <Brianetta> Anybody know if the scenario editor can tell you the TGP seed?
22:19:13  <Brianetta> My map is corrupted, and won't save
22:19:16  <TrueBrain> Brianetta: getseed?
22:19:17  <Brianetta> but I love this land layout
22:19:20  <peter1138> Won't save? :o
22:19:34  <Brianetta> peter1138: I loaded suburban renewal, I think that buggered it
22:19:50  <Brianetta> Game Load Failed
22:19:50  <Brianetta> File not writeable
22:20:09  <peter1138> That shouldn't prevent saving.
22:20:51  <Brianetta> Well, somethingbroke
22:20:54  <peter1138> Not the obvious readonly, diskspace, or quota problems?
22:21:27  <Brianetta> hardly
22:21:55  <Brianetta> Nearly half a terrabyte remaining
22:23:06  <Brianetta> Arse
22:23:08  <Brianetta> Same issue
22:23:13  <Brianetta> empty scenario
22:23:39  <peter1138> As far as I know, that error can only happen if an fwrite() fails.
22:23:44  <Brianetta> yeah
22:23:51  <Brianetta> brian@jarred ~> touch test
22:23:51  <dih> hello Brianetta
22:23:51  <Brianetta> touch: cannot touch `test': Permission denied
22:23:51  <Brianetta> brian@jarred ~> ls -ld .
22:23:51  <Brianetta> drwxr-xr-x 153 brian users 20480 2008-09-05 23:20 ./
22:23:51  <Brianetta> brian@jarred ~> pwd
22:23:52  <Brianetta> ~
22:23:55  <Brianetta> That's weird
22:25:30  <dih> Zuu: the "problem" was with the network code
22:25:37  <dih> the udp part to be precise
22:25:46  <Zuu> dih: Ok
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22:26:47  <Brianetta> brian@jarred ~> touch test
22:26:47  <Brianetta> brian@jarred ~> rm test
22:26:47  <Brianetta> *NOW* it starts working
22:26:48  <Zuu> Just to make sure, I did not meant to offend anyone for their effort with wwottdgd2 by saying it's not stable. Just wanted to point out the issue we had with it.
22:26:50  <Brianetta> Nothing in the logs
22:28:18  <dih> Zuu: i dont think there was any offence in what you said ;-)
22:28:29  <dih> wwottdgd is not meant to be stable over more than 36 hours :-D
22:28:38  <Zuu> :-D
22:28:55  <TrueBrain> and even in that timeframe it is known to bark from time to time :p
22:29:01  <dih> and for what we do with the source, we can very well live with a misshap :-P
22:29:23  <dih> TrueBrain, the 'bark' was in the network code
22:29:34  <dih> which got disabled quickly
22:29:43  <dih> (twas only the udp stuff anyway ;-P)
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22:32:03  <Zuu> Is it acceptable to have a function that is called twice every event-loop per window instance? (this I would use in the sign list search patch to let the window dynamically change wheither it want to steal key-focus or not)
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22:32:32  <Zuu> A variant using a public member variable of Window class is also possible through not as estecial perhaps.
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22:35:42  <Zuu> Given that there is not very many windows instances 2*n extra calls every input loop to a virtual function is not that much?
22:36:08  <peter1138> Why two?
22:36:30  <Zuu> window.cpp: 1657 and 1672
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22:37:19  <Zuu> I would replace those if-statements with a call to a member of window that then can be overloaded by windows that want to enable stealing of key-focus.
22:37:43  <peter1138> Hmm, well...
22:37:46  <Zuu> well, not the if-statements but the stuff between the brackets.
22:37:59  <peter1138> You'd need two loops instead of lots of ifs, so it might *actually* be less work to do.
22:38:10  <peter1138> Quite why I bolded that I don't know.
22:38:28  <peter1138> Zuu, seems reasonable to me.
22:39:19  <glx> Zuu: about the checkmark, it happens only with MSVC (2005 and 2008 have this problem) but I don't know why yet
22:39:36  <Zuu> glx: Ok
22:39:47  <peter1138> Checkmark?
22:39:58  <Zuu> glx: I can test other revisions if needed. if you havn't got down to which revision that does it.
22:40:17  <Zuu> peter1138:
22:40:26  <glx> it's since r14214
22:41:06  <peter1138> Hmm, how strange.
22:41:15  <glx> looks like MSVC still use the original sprite while gcc uses the new one
22:41:23  <peter1138> That should be impossible.
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22:41:46  <TrueBrain> should be maybe, but it is MSVC you are talking about :)
22:42:41  <TrueBrain> <- for who cares
22:42:42  <Zuu> peter1138: There will then need to be more code in the windows that need to steal key-focus but the gain is that windows can dynamically steal focus only when there is a text-widget visible. (or usefull if someone wants to do propper widget focus)
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23:27:40  <TrueBrain> I wonder in all those configures (I am doing a 'emerge -uavND world') .. how many systems would fail on those include-file checks?
23:28:21  <TrueBrain> checking for read... yes <- is it possible to hav ea system without read?
23:28:23  <TrueBrain> well, I guess ..
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23:39:51  <Brianetta> Hot new scenario, straight from the oven, on Brianetta's Standard!
23:39:56  <Brianetta>
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23:53:08  <orudge> TrueBrain: well, I seem to recall some old compilers (possibly Borland or Watcom) that didn't have "read". But they wouldn't likely be using an autoconf-based makefile. ;)
23:54:03  <TrueBrain> orudge: I rest my case ;)
23:54:12  <TrueBrain> what annoys me the most about such things
23:54:20  <TrueBrain> is that I have applications where the autoconf takes longer than the real compile
23:55:19  <orudge> I agree
23:55:45  * orudge is currently upgrading CPAN modules on another server, there are quite a lot to upgrade, and the tests are taking ages
23:55:51  <orudge> I guess I could run it without tests, but hmm
23:55:59  <TrueBrain> I always run them without tests ..
23:56:05  <ben_goodger> the word "pah!" comes to mind
23:56:09  <TrueBrain> a) the tests randomly fail without real reason (and I don't care)
23:56:14  <TrueBrain> b) it takes for ever for no real gain
23:56:14  <orudge> indeed
23:56:43  <ben_goodger> I think perl needs as much testing as it can get
23:57:01  * TrueBrain hugs the makedepend of OpenTTD .. so much better than a few .. other compiles I see passing my screen ..
23:57:11  <TrueBrain> I think perl needs the trashcan
23:57:19  <TrueBrain> (sorry, no fan of Perl, not a bit)
23:57:32  <ben_goodger> I suspect that the same perl code may behave differently on different CPUs of the same model, despite the logical impossibility of this
23:58:03  <TrueBrain> I suspect that some Perl code lives
23:58:08  <TrueBrain> it always scares me to dead
23:58:18  <TrueBrain> the last time I wrote a perl script is .... 5 years ago?
23:58:35  <ben_goodger> don't ask me...
23:58:52  <TrueBrain> I was asking myself
23:58:53  <TrueBrain> but I failed
23:58:59  <ben_goodger> quite
23:59:02  <TrueBrain> It returned: INVALID QUERY
23:59:03  <orudge> well, you have the likes of patchman who can do all sorts of scary witchcraft with perl
23:59:20  <TrueBrain> orudge: that is my main problem with Perl .. you can do a complete application on a single line
23:59:26  <TrueBrain> which NOBODY understands after you wrote it
23:59:30  <TrueBrain> (not even the person who wrote it, in general)
23:59:44  <orudge> indeed so
23:59:49  <orudge> although, you can do similar with C ;)
23:59:59  <orudge> although not quite to the same degree, admittedly

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