Log for #openttd on 7th October 2008:
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05:38:18  <DaleStan> Belugas: When an industry with a current production multiplier (TTDPatch: industry.prodmultiplier, NFO var 93) of 05..07 has its production halved (either by standard TTD logic or from an 01 (halve current production) return from CBs 29/35), is the multiplier clamped to 4, or is the industry closed?
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05:40:31  <DaleStan> Belugas: And is that behaviour different if the industry is protected from being closed because it is the last one on the map? (Or is that a TTDPatch-only thing?)
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08:26:07  <Rubidium> 'lo
08:26:30  <Celestar> :o
08:26:32  <Celestar> hey :D
08:27:27  <Celestar> oh man.
08:27:44  <Celestar> Why do people not refrain from giving problem reports of MODIFIED cargodest versions?
08:27:48  <petern> :D
08:28:42  <Rubidium> Celestar: that's a well known problem
08:30:23  * petern ponders using vserver to set up this asterisk system.
08:34:26  <petern> hmm, seems between etch and lenny, apt defaults to automatically installing recommends
08:34:29  <petern> this is ... annoying
08:35:33  <petern> it starts installing serious amounts of unneeded cruft
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08:39:17  <Rubidium> you can make apt ignore recommends
08:39:44  <Rubidium> apt --no-install-recommends ...
08:43:16  <petern> yes i know
08:43:22  <petern> just it was never on by default before
08:43:27  <petern> and it's thoroughly annoying
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09:04:35  <fjb> Hello
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09:09:41  * petern grumbles at colleague...
09:09:53  <petern> him: "is it working yet?"
09:10:05  <petern> me: "no, i'm stripping it down for security"
09:10:14  <petern> him: "oh that doesn't matter"
09:14:29  <SpComb> petern: typical
09:17:00  <Volley> Rubidium: the first thing i do when installing is to set aptitude to not install recommends per default ... tough i never had this with apt ... (maybe some thing evil changed your /etc/apt/apt.conf or whatever?)
09:17:54  <Volley> actually ... with "apt" you mean "apt-get", do you?
09:18:35  <petern> the default got change, i think
09:18:38  <petern> +d
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09:25:19  <Celestar> petern: security _never_ matters
09:25:38  <Celestar> petern: neither does availability
09:26:03  <Celestar> when last I told my boss what I was up to to increase both, I got the reply "Don't do it, we're not a bank"
09:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> "just focus on getting it working"
09:26:52  <Celestar> why is the world full of dilletants
09:26:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i've had such discussions also, until one of the admins actually did care for security ;)
09:27:06  <fjb> Even banks don't care for security...
09:27:33  <dih> fjb?
09:28:20  <fjb> Banks are spending far more money for advertising than for security.
09:28:41  <Eddi|zuHause> did you hear of that? just a few days ago, hundreds of bank terminals were offline due to one chewed up cable. that should never have happened
09:29:05  <Eddi|zuHause> how can one cable be single point of failure?
09:29:41  <dih> it's a direct link to the banks system?
09:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> it was a power cable
09:30:06  <dih> it happened in the us some years ago that people would dig huge holes to get to networking cables and tap them
09:30:19  <dih> Eddi|zuHause: why dont you say so in the first place? :-P
09:31:50  <Eddi|zuHause> they said it was chewed up by a marten
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12:29:51  <welshdragon> can timetables be used to keep 2 trains running the same route quite a distance away from each other?
12:31:07  <welshdragon> say one route, A to B has 2 trains, can train 1 depart at point B and train 2 depart from point A at the same time?
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12:34:09  <fjb> Yes.
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12:35:04  <welshdragon> hmm
12:35:29  <Progman> how?
12:36:30  <fjb> You have to start the second train when the first is departing from point B.
12:38:10  <welshdragon> hmm
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12:38:23  <welshdragon> but that does not use timetabling then
12:39:02  <petern> there are improvement patches for it
12:39:57  <welshdragon> but theya re not in 0.6.3
12:40:16  <petern> well no, they're patches ;)
12:40:21  <petern> not in 0.6.3 nor trunk
12:40:26  <Noldo> the good stuff is never stable
12:40:29  <petern> grrr, fucking freenode
12:41:10  <fjb> The timetable keeps the distance between the trains. You have to set the initial distance by starting the trains by hand.
12:41:31  <petern> even the so called 'realistic' one is not very easy to use
12:41:36  <Vikthor> Noldo: No, stuff you consider cool is not stable - there are many good things that are stable
12:42:02  <Vikthor> eg. YAPF, NewIndustries support etc
12:42:11  <Noldo> it's not an opinnion it's the definition
12:42:53  <Vikthor> so you are saying YAPF is not good because it's stable?
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12:44:50  <Noldo> yes
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12:45:58  <petern> freenode is good because it's unstable!
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12:48:08  <TrueBrain> @kick Noldo it is not a kick, it is a unstable feature of IRC!
12:48:08  *** Noldo was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [it is not a kick, it is a unstable feature of IRC!]
12:48:32  <TrueBrain> now that is good stuff
12:48:50  <Rubidium> I guess he needs a better IRC client, like mibbit
12:49:01  <Rubidium> and a better ISP
12:49:17  <Vikthor> heh, anyway I am going to educate myself further
12:49:22  <Vikthor> bye for now
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13:30:52  <Belugas> hello
13:31:16  <dih> hello Sir
13:31:30  <Belugas> DaleStan, i'll try to find the time to answer you tonigh.  Why do you ask?  Found a strange behaviour lately?
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13:36:38  <Belugas> hello dih
13:36:56  <MapperOG> uhm, I think Noldo was just ironic and made a joke
13:37:32  <MapperOG> But, well tht was almost an hour ago
13:38:28  <Eddi|zuHause> so? is there a reason why jokes shouldn't be met with a kick?
13:39:14  <ln> he also misspelled a word before the kick.
13:41:26  <dih> + it was only a kick... nothing is stopping him from joining the channel again
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13:44:35  <MapperOG> Yup, I saw :)
13:51:01  <Swallow> Do all openttd source files use \r\n as end-of-line?
13:51:35  <Rubidium> depends on your subversion client
13:52:01  <dih> eol-style = native?
13:52:33  <Swallow> I'm using tortoiseSVN on winxp
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13:58:43  <petern> Should do, if TortoiseSVN does the right thing. *cough*
13:59:41  <Swallow> It seems it does.
14:00:19  <Swallow> At least my home-made whitespace detector seems to work.
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14:04:47  <Belugas> we've got pre-commit hooks for that
14:04:51  <Belugas> pretty efficient :P
14:06:54  <MapperOG> Hm.. what has the SVN to offer? :D
14:11:42  <Belugas> a lot :)
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14:16:03  <FauxFaux> I do wish they'd make the official subversion at least remotely fast and actually capable of merging, so people stopped bitching so much.
14:16:20  <FauxFaux> Obviously these things aren't easy to do, though. :p
14:18:19  <Belugas> you are just asking for SVN to think for you, in other words :)  because from our point of view, "merging" is somehting it can do quite well :)
14:18:44  <Belugas> but I think yoi mean merging patches, which is something totally different ;)
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14:19:28  <Belugas> and if people knew waht they were doing, it would make life easier for everyone
14:19:56  <Belugas> but no... I want this and i want that.  ho fuck... it does not work ... ******CRIES*****
14:20:41  <FauxFaux> I can't remember what the git people go on and on about.. star merge?
14:20:56  * FauxFaux shrugs, I avoid it like the plague and it's fine. ¬_¬
14:22:17  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14444 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/ (ido.txt persian.txt): -Add: stubs for two new languages: Persian (or Farsi) and Ido.
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15:10:15  <murray> 14444 \o/
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15:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause> throw a party!
15:21:25  <Gekz> at night
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16:16:47  <SmatZ> Ido :)
16:17:20  <DaleStan> Belugas: I'm trying to implement CB 29/35 return values 0D and 0E in Patch, and I figure that "Do what Open does" is a good object here.
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16:55:30  <Belugas> DaleStan, Judging from the sources and my memory, yes, the values are clamped to either 0x04 or 0x80, depending if increasing or decreasing
16:56:19  <Belugas> here's the code related :
16:56:57  <Belugas> in industry_cmd.cpp, starting at line 2171 (approx.)
16:57:30  <Belugas> note that the immediate result of the callback is not clamped, only the result on the production level itself
16:57:53  <Belugas> the call back occurs in line 2069 (both callbacks, in fact)
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17:03:18  <Belugas> now... about protected industries..
17:03:22  * Belugas looks
17:08:48  <Belugas> looks it will not close, since the closure_level will not be set in this case
17:09:02  <Belugas> so yes, indusrty protected will keep on languishing :)
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17:13:54  <DaleStan> OK. Check me here. If halving or decrementing is requested when prod_level is 4, a non-protected industry is closed. In all other circumstances, the requested action is performed and prod_level is clamped to 04..80.
17:22:32  <Belugas> i think so, yes
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17:29:42  <Belugas> yeah, it looks pertty much like what yu described, DaleStan
17:30:30  <DaleStan> Then that's what I'll (hopefully) make Patch do.
17:32:53  <Belugas> nice :)
17:33:31  <Belugas> good ... luck? courage? work? skills? <pick correct one>
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17:44:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14445 /trunk/src/lang/ (spanish.txt ukrainian.txt unfinished/latvian.txt):
17:44:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-07 17:43:40
17:44:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: latvian - 2 fixed, 15 changed by v3rb0 (17)
17:44:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 6 fixed by eusebio (6)
17:44:10  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 6 fixed by mad (6)
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17:44:54  <Wolf01> hello
17:46:55  <ln> buongiorno
17:47:04  <Wolf01> buonasera :D
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17:47:50  <Belugas> hello Wolf01
17:48:28  <Wolf01> hello mister :D
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17:54:16  <ln> Wolf01: how does it feel that suddenly things didn't cost thousands of units anymore?
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17:54:47  <Wolf01> ?_?
17:56:39  <ln>     ¿¯¿
17:57:06  <Wolf01> :O
17:59:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Wolf01: he means that things now cost 10 euro instead of 20000 lira
18:00:17  <Eddi|zuHause> err, of course i mean 10 euro instead of 10000 lira :p
18:01:12  <Wolf01> oh yes... things cost the double, but we don't notice it so much
18:02:25  <Wolf01> the only problem is that we get the same salary as pre-€
18:03:18  <frosch123> I guess the number of millionaires decreased drastically...
18:03:34  <Prof_Frink> If you want things that cost thousands of units, move to Zimbabwe.
18:05:24  <Wolf01> in Italy there is always the same number of millionaires (parliamentarians)
18:05:46  * Wolf01 :O<-food
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18:29:30  <Eoin> Hi
18:29:47  <Eoin> Why dont i get a "group" option on the Train list window
18:30:05  <TrueBrain> hi Eoin
18:30:34  <Eoin> hi TrueBrain :P
18:31:28  <Eoin> Any idea?
18:31:42  <Belugas> no idea of what you are talking aobut
18:32:29  <Eoin> The "grouping" option
18:32:39  <Eoin> when you can add train x to a group
18:32:43  <Eoin> then another train to it
18:32:43  *** mortal`` is now known as mortal
18:33:12  <ln> mortal: what is the constant of integration?
18:33:19  <mortal> C
18:33:27  <mortal> why do you ask?
18:33:30  <Belugas> ok, i see.  but what is it that you think that should be there?
18:33:40  <ln> mortal: you just integrated yourself twice without a constant.
18:33:45  <Eoin> as it is there for welshdragon
18:33:46  <Eoin> :P
18:33:47  <mortal> oh damn
18:33:52  <mortal> yeah I keep forgetting
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18:34:34  <TrueBrain> what version do you use?
18:34:37  <Eoin> 0.6.3
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18:34:48  <Eoin> i thought it was only in nightlies, but he says otherwise
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18:37:40  <TrueBrain> but then again,w hat does he know?
18:38:20  <Eoin> he is looking at it right now :P
18:38:48  <welshdragon> TrueBrain, i have a screenie
18:39:03  <welshdragon> i'm just uploading it to ftp
18:40:14  <welshdragon>
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18:42:18  <Eoin>
18:43:00  *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:43:45  <Rubidium> Eoin: there's an option somewhere that makes it use the "old" window
18:43:48  *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:43:54  <Eoin> Any idea where?
18:44:46  <Eoin> found it
18:44:47  <Eoin> thanks :P
18:46:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14446 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2330]: when a road stop gets moved make sure to update the destination of RVs going to that road stop.
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19:17:11  <TrueBrain> lalalaa
19:17:28  <Rubidium> pompiedm
19:17:54  <TrueBrain> minus the typo, good job ;)
19:18:55  <Rubidium> what typo? ;)
19:19:19  <TrueBrain> missing a 'o' :(
19:20:33  * SmatZ fails to fine that missing 'o' :(
19:20:39  <SmatZ> brb
19:20:43  <SmatZ> *find....
19:20:45  <SmatZ> :-x
19:20:57  <TrueBrain> the correct reply is: pompiedom
19:21:00  <TrueBrain> not what ever he said
19:21:18  <Rubidium> *only* when you say tralalala
19:22:12  <TrueBrain> no: lalala
19:22:13  <TrueBrain> not the 't'
19:22:15  <TrueBrain> sigh ..
19:28:01  <Eddi|zuHause> sometimes you guys creep me out...
19:28:26  <Belugas> you're too straight, Eddi|zuHause...
19:28:31  <Belugas> perfectly normal to me :)
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19:30:59  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's not like the conversation itself is odd enough, but it is not even the first time this exact same conversation occured
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19:33:49  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: and they still do it wrong :)
19:34:21  *** Mark [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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19:36:53  * Belugas remembers one time, when petern and i were talking, on another channel, glx asked me if I was drunk, since the converstation was very strange for him. So... let say we all have our moments ^)^
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19:43:38  <petern> Hello
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19:58:59  *** Netsplit <-> quits: DaleStan, Ridayah
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20:06:47  <TrueBrain> hi petern
20:06:49  <TrueBrain> you are up late :p
20:07:00  <petern> 9pm!
20:13:35  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: michi_cc * r14447 /trunk/src/lang/ (english.txt english_US.txt): -Change [FS#2333]: Rename YAPP "advanced signals" to "path signals" and "normal signals" to "block signals".
20:17:08  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
20:17:32  <petern> boo
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20:17:48  <TrueBrain> wow, you scared me there
20:19:44  *** [com]buster [] has joined #openttd
20:20:50  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
20:21:48  <planetmaker> nice, michi_cc :)
20:22:44  <ln> ¿donde esta el Bjarni?
20:23:32  <Bjarni> I'm right here
20:23:55  <Bjarni> but write something in Spanish again and you will be really fucked
20:23:58  <Bjarni> and not in the good way
20:24:54  <ln> i.e. by you?
20:25:06  <Eddi|zuHause> don't you miss some accent there?
20:25:07  <ln> not interested, sorry
20:25:16  <ln> possibly.
20:25:38  <Rubidium> Bjarni: right amigo ;)
20:25:39  <ln> está
20:26:07  <Bjarni> ln: did you see my message to you about gigabit half duplex the other night?
20:26:15  <Bjarni> or did you leave before reading it?
20:26:23  <ln> Bjarni: i never leave.
20:26:26  <ln> i saw it.
20:26:30  <Bjarni> ok
20:26:32  <Bjarni> good :)
20:26:41  <ln> 02:14 <@Bjarni> <ln> Bjarni: is there even such thing as 1 Gbit half duplex? no? <-- if I recall correctly, there is support for  it in IEEE. However I have yet to see 1 Gbit hardware that lacks support for full duplex
20:27:31  * SmatZ hasn't seen a 1Gbit hardware with half-duplex support :)
20:27:31  <Bjarni> the bad thing about this is that it will really add a huge amount of padding bytes if it's running in half duplex
20:27:48  <Bjarni> because in half duplex the duration of a package has a minimum
20:29:38  <TrueBrain> what is wrong with gigabit in half duplex?
20:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> por cierto, estoy en casa.
20:30:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i do urgently have to improve my spanish...
20:31:30  <TrueBrain> me 2 ... as what I understood, you just called me a pig :(
20:31:33  <Bjarni> TrueBrain: well in half duplex you risk having a conflict. In order to be able to detect that you have to transmit for a minimum time period (which is the time it takes to get from you to the far point in the network and back again + a little extra). If you make shorter packages than this then you risk that two computers transmit at the same time without detecting it
20:32:11  <Bjarni> so the standard adds NULL bytes at the end of a package if it's transmitted too fast in order to meet the minimum time requirement
20:32:17  <TrueBrain> only in ring networks
20:32:22  <TrueBrain> and BNC died a long time ago :)
20:32:37  <TrueBrain> but fair enough, fibers do still have timing issues
20:32:39  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: and networks with hubs
20:33:10  <Bjarni> we are talking about IEEE standard for half duplex gigabit. It's mentioned earlier that I don't know anywhere where it's actually in use but the standard is there ;)
20:33:35  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: kind of, but fair enough: yes :)
20:34:02  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: por español práctico, evitar las islas canarias.
20:34:06  <TrueBrain> and why wouldn't it?
20:34:47  <SmatZ> man ethtool doesn't seem to know 1gbit half duplex
20:35:16  <SmatZ> "not supported by IEEE standards"
20:35:18  <TrueBrain> hehe
20:35:24  <TrueBrain> it knows it, just not by IEEE :p
20:35:31  <Eddi|zuHause> sure... but i can't go to any spanish sounding country without having to take my mother with me... she jumps every opportunity to go there
20:37:33  <Wolf01> 'night
20:37:38  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
20:37:44  <TrueBrain> night Wolf01
20:37:48  <TrueBrain> (yes, in time again :))
20:38:04  <SmatZ> :)
20:39:03  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: (some) mailboxes on las islas canarias have two holes, labeled "Deutschland" and "other destinations".
20:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> well, whatever fits best the logistic needs :p
20:40:35  <ln> more than half of the tourists are germans, you can order food in german anywhere...
20:40:51  <Eddi|zuHause> well, did you try? ;)
20:41:02  <ln> if a car has an EU license plate other than 'E', it's 'D'.
20:41:26  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: nope, i used swedish and finnish. :)
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20:41:41  <Eddi|zuHause> who would visit the canares and bring his own car?
20:42:09  <ln> some people, apparently. probably staying for longer than a week.
20:44:46  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> who would visit the canares and bring his own car? <-- for the same reason as people visit Iceland and bring their own car
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20:45:01  <Bjarni> knowing the rural roads in Iceland, I would never bring my own car ;)
20:45:21  * Rubidium wouldn't go to Iceland right now anyways
20:45:30  <Bjarni> why not?
20:45:39  <Bjarni> their currency just dropped to half price
20:45:39  <TrueBrain> hmm .. ice
20:45:51  <Rubidium> Bjarni: some issues with acquiring money
20:45:53  <Bjarni> meaning prices could be rather cheap right now
20:46:21  <Bjarni>  <Rubidium> Bjarni: some issues with acquiring money <-- now that's a good reason not to go anywhere
20:46:27  <Rubidium> Bjarni: fine it's cheap, but when there's no bank to withdraw money you can't buy anything
20:46:28  <Bjarni> except to your parents :P
20:46:47  <ln> Rubidium: err... you have mixed Iceland and Zimbabwe.
20:46:56  <Bjarni> there are banks in Iceland
20:47:01  *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ
20:47:13  <TrueBrain> yeah, with a nice view over the water
20:47:31  <Bjarni> it's just that to avoid bankruptcy the state took over a number of banks
20:47:33  <Bjarni> today
20:47:54  <Bjarni> but I think you can still walk up to them and withdraw money
20:48:03  <ln> yeah, i don't see how that would affect a regular tourist in any way.
20:48:03  <Rubidium> Bjarni: and too many people already have withdrawn cash money from their accounts
20:48:11  <Rubidium> ergo... ATM is empty
20:48:19  <Bjarni> you could have a problem selling your Icelandic money for other currencies though
20:48:54  <ln> who uses cash anyway
20:49:02  <Bjarni> me
20:49:30  <Bjarni> well I guess you can do with a visa more or less everywhere in Iceland
20:49:57  <Rubidium> ghehe... I've learned not to trust such assumptions
20:50:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: there is a very easy solution to that problem, just print more money :p
20:50:14  <ln> i use maybe 20 euros cash per month.
20:50:22  <ln> max
20:50:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i use more than that
20:50:56  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: ofcourse, but... they most likely reached the limit of what they can print in a day already
20:50:58  <Eddi|zuHause> you have to pay cash in most small shops... like the baker, or the döner
20:51:50  <Eddi|zuHause> germans love cash, especially big coins ;)
20:52:28  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: over here, a shop needs to be incredibly small for it not to accept at least the national "bank card". the baker and the equivalent of döners most certainly accept card.
20:52:34  <Eddi|zuHause> in the beginning of the last century, the banks had to give out welcoming presents in order to get the people to use paper money instead of coins
20:52:45  <Eddi|zuHause> and cheques never were really widespread in germany
20:53:55  <ln> i want a 2-euro bank note, the coins are too big and heavy.
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20:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> there are funny stories about italian people who think coins are worthless, and don't realize that a 2€ coin is actually worth a lot ;)
20:56:10  <Rubidium> now imagine you were paid with Lira coins
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20:56:37  <Bjarni> <-- value of Icelandic kr during the last 30 days
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20:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> there were times where the copper in lira coins was worth more than the coin itself, so the japanese collected as many italian coins as they could get :p
20:57:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r14448 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange [FS#2328]: rename a few variables (based on a patch by planetmaker)
20:58:12  <Bjarni> at one time the Swedish 1 kr coin contained more than 1 kr worth of silver. They discovered this because the whole country suffered from lack of 1 kr coins
20:58:15  <planetmaker> woooh :)
20:58:35  <Bjarni> somebody collected all of them and melted them down and extracted the silver
20:58:44  <Bjarni> they earned 0,1 kr for each coin
20:59:01  <Eddi|zuHause> that could as well be a huge patchkiller commit, with such a specific commit message :p
20:59:04  <SmatZ> :-)
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20:59:47  <Bjarni> it goes without saying that Sweden decided not to have silver in the 1 kr coins anymore :D
21:00:05  <ln> the one lat of Latvia is a not-very-interesting-looking, pretty small coin, but worth about 1.5 euros.. easy for tourists to tip people with a bunch of such without thinking how valuable they actually are.
21:01:15  <ln> and probably the general impression is that the value of money in former soviet countries is low.  (estonia: 15.24 kr = 1 €)
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21:02:42  <Bjarni> I wouldn't consider it "low"
21:03:02  <ln> hehe, must be close to danish krona. ;)
21:03:11  <Bjarni> I have known for a while that Baltic kr is worth like half the value of Danish kr
21:03:41  <ln> "Baltic kr"?
21:03:51  <Bjarni> well.. kr from that region :P
21:03:58  <Bjarni> I couldn't remember the specific country
21:04:11  <ln> exactly one of them has kr.
21:04:18  <Bjarni> ok
21:04:22  *** Aylomen [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:04:28  <Bjarni> you learn something new every day :)
21:06:15  <Belugas> ho fuck
21:06:16  <Belugas> good night!
21:07:05  <TrueBrain> Belugas: too much detail, but enjoy
21:07:10  <Eddi|zuHause> don't you find it amazing that so many totally different countries have so similarly named currencies?
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21:08:21  <ln> yeah. not much innovation.
21:09:00  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: not really
21:09:19  <Bjarni> if you understood history then it would be perfectly natural
21:09:30  <Bjarni> ages ago 1 kr = 1 kr
21:09:44  <ln> Bjarni: estonia has krooni, latvia has lats, lithuania has litas.
21:10:16  <Eddi|zuHause> well, then tell me how the czech kr is connected to the icelandic kr
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21:10:25  <Bjarni> so inflation killed the idea of calling the currencies the same
21:10:44  <Bjarni> Iceland was a part of Denmark until WW2
21:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause> but czechia was not...
21:11:16  <Bjarni> while Denmark was full of Germans Iceland decided to declare themselves independent. Denmark could do nothing about it
21:11:26  <ln> haha
21:11:38  <Bjarni> it went downhilll for Iceland and they had a huge inflation
21:11:44  <Eddi|zuHause> well, that's your own fault i'd say :p
21:12:44  <ln> i'm still not sure if denmark has or had an army.
21:13:00  <Bjarni> Iceland never had an army
21:13:01  <ln> like in the 20th century.
21:13:10  <Vikthor> Eddi|zuHause: There is no Czech kr, it's Kč :p
21:13:14  <Bjarni> Denmark has an army
21:13:23  <Bjarni> it wasn't strong enough to keep the Germans out though
21:13:34  <ln> was there serious effort?
21:13:41  <Eddi|zuHause> Vikthor: and what does the k and the č stand for?
21:13:52  <Vikthor> Koruna česká
21:13:56  <Bjarni> <ln> was there serious effort? <-- yeah... for a few hours
21:14:01  <Eddi|zuHause> see?
21:14:09  <Vikthor> Yeah
21:14:12  <Bjarni> then a troop transport reached Copenhagen and it was over
21:15:02  <Bjarni> anyway kr is the Danish currency and Iceland decided to keep kr as currency
21:15:08  <ln> Bjarni: though gotta say the norwegians didn't try either. how stupid is that?
21:16:27  <Bjarni> Norway and Sweden use kr as well since Denmark, Norway and Sweden are the countries originally introducing the kr
21:17:38  <Bjarni> Estonia has kr too.... I bet they had that for hundred of years
21:17:46  <Bjarni> but I don't know the history behind it
21:18:10  <Bjarni> for all I know the whole Baltic area used kr and only Estonia keep using it
21:18:20  <ln> norway has like excellent geographical features for defense war, but did they even try?
21:18:29  <SmatZ> Bjarni: iceland has its own currency?
21:18:34  <Bjarni> lol
21:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: HAD :p
21:19:01  <SmatZ> ok :)
21:19:08  <Bjarni> SmatZ: it's not uncommon for countries to make their own currency after declaring themselves independent
21:19:13  <Bjarni> they still have
21:19:52  <SmatZ> ..... ok ignore me
21:19:58  <SmatZ> mistaken iceland for greenland ...
21:20:21  <Bjarni> the price of a Danish kr in ISK just moved from a stable 11,5 to 19,6 in a few days
21:21:08  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> mistaken iceland for greenland ... <-- now that was rather stupid :P
21:21:24  * SpComb wonders how long Bjarni has been playing EVE Online for
21:21:52  <Bjarni> I think Greenland would want a currency of it's own but as long as Denmark sends money to Greenland they aren't going to get it
21:21:59  <Bjarni> EVE Online?
21:22:02  <Bjarni> what's what?
21:22:28  <Bjarni> all I know about it is that it's some sort of online game
21:23:49  <SpComb> their currency is called ISK
21:24:01  <Bjarni> heh
21:24:28  <Bjarni> how should I know? :)
21:28:14  <ln> Bjarni: does the danish army think there's anything they can do the next time germans approach?
21:28:57  <MapperOG> ? Godwins law :D
21:30:07  <Bjarni> I don't think the risk of a new German attack is present
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21:30:21  <ln> ergo the army has no purpose
21:30:30  <Bjarni> not true
21:31:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure they have 5 people in afghanistan or something to have a "purpose" :p
21:31:33  <Bjarni> it's in Bosnia, Iraq (well, not anymore if I recall correctly), Afghanistan and there is a corvette chasing pirates around Somalia
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21:32:30  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: it's more like 1000 people
21:32:35  <Bjarni> I think
21:32:37  <Bjarni> hmm
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21:32:49  * Bjarni tries to figure out how many soldiers we have elsewhere
21:36:09  <ln> zero and counting...
21:37:02  *** Zealotus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:37:13  <Bjarni> I learned something
21:37:29  <Bjarni> the list isn't firefox or safari friendly
21:37:31  <Sacro> we have an Amiga 500 :D
21:37:40  <Bjarni> Sacro: I can beat that
21:37:42  <Bjarni> I have two
21:38:10  <ln> Bjarni: what kind of an assault rifle does a danish soldier carry?
21:38:46  <Bjarni> *CLASSIFIED*
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21:40:19  <ln> Bjarni: have you ever tried shooting with a machine gun?
21:40:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i have ;)
21:41:05  <ln> good
21:41:19  <Nite_Owl> I still have several Commodore 64's
21:41:39  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: have you thrown a hand grenade?
21:41:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no real one
21:42:08  <ln> i have...
21:42:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i also have fired a not-real panzerfaust
21:43:21  <SmatZ> [23:40:26] <Eddi|zuHause> i have ;) <== is that possible in Germany? aren't you forbidden even to have airsoft guns?
21:43:35  <Eddi|zuHause> not when you serve in the army ;)
21:45:15  <SmatZ> ahh :)
21:45:30  <planetmaker> aiming with a machine gun is a bit tricky...
21:45:51  <ln> is not
21:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> the first shot is fine, but all the others go wildly beyond the target :p
21:46:00  <planetmaker> for the first shot: yes.
21:46:04  <SmatZ> :-D
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21:48:15  <ln> i hit a man-size target which was like 600 meters away.
21:48:35  <planetmaker> ln: with the first shot, agreed, no problem.
21:49:43  <Eddi|zuHause> we did not shoot that distance with machine guns... we shot 25m on targets that were downsized as if they were 300m or something
21:49:55  <ln> errr.. most finnish banks and forex have stopped exchanging iceland kronor today.
21:50:13  <planetmaker> me, too, Eddi|zuHause, but I guess it's feasable.
21:50:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the shooting range was like 400m long
21:51:03  <planetmaker> hehe. And we were out of ammunition when it was to be my turn to train shooting in the night... :P
21:51:22  <Eddi|zuHause> we shot 25m on man sized targets with hand guns
21:51:38  <Eddi|zuHause> and 300m with rifles
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21:51:54  <planetmaker> yeah, something like that :) Seems to be standard procedure.
21:53:03  <Eddi|zuHause> we also did rifles on 25m with quickly getting the rifle up and aiming
21:57:27  <ln> also 100% fire-resistant firewood for the Kamin is worth mentioning.
21:57:42  <planetmaker> eh...?
21:59:09  <ln> you know, wood that you stick in to the Kamin with the intention of producing heat.
22:00:57  <ln> but if the wood doesn't burn, no heat is generated.
22:01:13  *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
22:01:17  *** Yeggzzz [] has quit []
22:01:27  <ln> possible reasons include: 1) the wood is soaking wet.  end of list.
22:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd order the same thing you are smoking...
22:06:01  <ln> ok, perhaps the Kamin has not been invented in central europe yet.
22:06:48  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. brand new, they installed it just last week
22:07:39  <ln> in the tent?
22:08:02  <Brianetta> tent (:
22:08:07  <Brianetta> I was in a tent a week ago
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22:21:46  <Bjarni> with Helen?
22:21:52  <Bjarni> must have been interesting
22:22:21  <ln> ... what kind of a comment is that then
22:25:55  <Bjarni> <ln> possible reasons include: 1) the wood is soaking wet.  end of list. <-- actually I know another reason. I was told about an incident where a house was sprayed with some fire resistant stuff to prevent it from burning and the wood was hit as well. They had to throw it out and get new one as it was impossible to burn
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22:49:01  <Nite_Owl> Later all - need to feed
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23:02:36  <Eddi|zuHause> what does a nite owl feed on? small rodents?
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