Log for #openttd on 12th October 2008:
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00:00:31  <fjb> Rubidium: Do deployed systems count as a measurement?
00:01:19  <Rubidium> I think it'll amaze you how often OS/2 is still used
00:01:39  <thingwath> i've never seen it, for example :)
00:01:52  <Rubidium> thingwath: thinks of windows 3.x
00:02:17  <thingwath> i had windows 3.11 fifteen years ago ;)
00:02:39  <Rubidium> fjb: OS/2 is for example used in many ATMs
00:03:01  <ln> fjb: I've seen OS/2 used on desktop in my university's administration in 2005, and I've bought train tickets in italy from a vending machine running OS/2 in 2006.
00:03:09  <fjb> BSD is used on many servers and embedded devices.
00:03:32  <Rubidium> so in effect: it's unmeasurable
00:03:45  <fjb> OS/2 is still out there but not as widly used as it once was.
00:06:05  <Eddi|zuHause> windows 3.x ran on OS/2 :p
00:06:20  <Rubidium> using "classified" statistics I'd say that there are about 1200 times more Windows installations than OS/2 installations
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00:07:54  <thingwath> but people won't play openttd on them
00:08:21  <Rubidium> thingwath: really?
00:08:38  <thingwath> on OS/2, i mean
00:09:00  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:09:11  <Rubidium> thingwath: the stats I'm talking about are the download statistics for different OSes of OpenTTD
00:09:16  <ln> thingwath: why not?
00:09:33  <Rubidium> and yes, the OS/2 binaries are really downloaded regularly
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00:10:35  <thingwath> is it usable on a reasonably new hardware?
00:12:45  <Rubidium> depends on your definition of usable
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00:12:52  <Rubidium> if you mean runs in VMWare server, then yes, otherwise no
00:13:04  <ln> big hard disks cause trouble with installation, but solvable somehow.
00:13:05  <thingwath> a game without hundreds of trains would be very, very sad :o)
00:13:21  <ln> big as in larger than 4 GB.
00:13:24  <thingwath> um
00:13:42  <thingwath> i would not call that "big" :)
00:13:52  <ln> but "huge"?
00:14:21  <thingwath> don't know
00:14:59  <thingwath> it was not enough for me six years ago
00:15:15  <ln> also the lack of support for newer network cards can be a problem.
00:15:31  <ln> but 10 years ago, who had an ethernet card anyway?
00:15:40  <thingwath> what "newer" :)
00:15:40  <ln> (i did, but that's beside the point)
00:15:55  <Brianetta> My games usually have only a few tens of trains at most
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00:19:38  <thingwath> well, i mostly use only trains and few buses
00:22:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i like big maps, so i tend to have more trains, but they are very spread out
00:22:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and i love trams ;)
00:23:23  <thingwath> i am not aware of any really good tram set :/
00:24:05  <Eddi|zuHause> what i have seen of the GermanRV set was really good
00:24:27  <Eddi|zuHause> only the trucks are still missing
00:24:36  <thingwath> i need czech trams :)
00:25:38  <SmatZ> thingwath: if this helps you :)
00:25:40  <Eddi|zuHause> there is also the serbian tram set
00:26:07  <Eddi|zuHause> czech trams run all around the (eastern) world
00:26:19  <Eddi|zuHause> so you'll find some in many sets
00:26:27  <thingwath> SmatZ: oh, lovely, i didn't know about new version :)
00:26:35  <SmatZ> :)
00:26:50  * fjb likes horses.
00:28:44  <thingwath> but still no KT8 :/
00:31:39  <thingwath> this is so depressing.
00:31:48  <SmatZ> :(
00:32:40  <thingwath> i have to buy RT6 instead, which is... strange :)
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00:52:30  <A_Person> I think these articles remain unclear about what happens to a long train that has to make two turns in the same direction with a larger gap than 12
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00:56:11  <SmatZ> A_Person: I think it is explained there
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00:57:54  <A_Person> From what is given I can only guess that similarily to what's shown the re is a limit with longer gaps for trains that are long enough, but I'm just not entirely sure
00:59:03  <SmatZ> long train will never go > 231/346/461 kph
00:59:14  <SmatZ> in a curve that is shorter than train
00:59:55  <A_Person> k makes sense
01:02:14  * A_Person places a tiny corner of ore mine and waits for the results
01:02:44  <SmatZ> but there is another problem
01:02:58  <A_Person> Speed?
01:03:13  <SmatZ> "Tiles between double bend" should be "Wagons ..."
01:03:29  <SmatZ> for shorter wagons, you can have shorter curves
01:03:29  <A_Person> oh, heh
01:03:40  <A_Person> hmm, didn't know vagon lenght varied
01:03:56  <A_Person> I'm limited to 16 tile trains anyway
01:04:06  <SmatZ> :)
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01:04:15  <SmatZ> some GRF sets have shorter wagons
01:04:23  <A_Person> ah
01:04:35  <SmatZ> and longer, using a 'hack' (it is 2 wagons, but only first has a sprite)
01:04:44  * A_Person has expanded his mad map to replace his 7*16 stations with 16^2
01:04:54  <SmatZ> :(
01:04:56  <SmatZ> oops
01:04:58  <SmatZ> :) I mean
01:05:06  <A_Person> :P
01:05:34  <A_Person> I'm thinking replacing 1 maxed forest with 4, and the same for farms is going to kill the line
01:06:12  <A_Person> but I've equipped myself with knowledge abou turn tightness, and this time around my line should be faster in that regard
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01:09:12  * A_Person ponders the madness of using two iron ore mines instead of two
01:10:21  <SmatZ> "two iron ore mines instead of two" ?
01:10:28  <A_Person> per one station
01:11:09  <A_Person> I'm building a map for my experiment scenario, two point railway with th stations servicing maxed out industries, a mix of them
01:11:34  <A_Person> mixed goods, miced train speeds, high volume, it's a mad puzzle to make work
01:12:15  <A_Person> well, mixed in the sense of traffic on the line, heavyer trains obstruct slower ones
01:13:59  <SmatZ> A_Person: fixed wiki...
01:14:11  <A_Person> Ah, heh, well thanks
01:14:12  <SmatZ> :-)
01:22:56  <A_Person> 8 thousand tonnes of wood through one station, can he do it!
01:44:16  <broli> is there a way to know the state of a signal that is not facing you?
01:45:21  <A_Person> it's glow should show a bit on the back side
01:45:23  <A_Person> like on the edge
01:46:15  <A_Person> oh, hmm, not when it's pointing straight north
01:46:58  <broli> yeah
01:47:13  <broli> with the old ones you can see it go up or down
01:47:17  <broli> but i hate the old ones
01:47:41  <A_Person> semaphores you mean?
01:49:20  <broli> the pole with a small pole pointing up and down
01:49:53  <A_Person> Yeah, those were called semaphores I think
01:50:25  <broli> not native english speaker
01:51:03  <A_Person> Neither am I, I just remember silly stuff
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02:34:01  <A_Person> I wonder if two maximum output farms equal roughly four forests
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03:00:38  <stoorty> hey
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03:16:07  <stoorty> is there a bug in the newest nightly?
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03:32:49  <stoorty> my game crashes when an oilrig is built :s
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03:38:00  <A_Person> Crap I built the wrong kind of railway station, I had to build a monorail station, and I built a regular onez :/
04:17:59  <A_Person> covering 8 or more squares of a steel mill gives it a passenger rating, interesting
04:33:53  <A_Person> Do DTRS' block other vehicles from using the road?
04:43:04  <roboboy> Vehicles can go through opponents' drive-through stops without stopping. from the wiki article you linked to
04:45:20  <ccfreak2k> If a truck is stopped at the station, cars can go around I think
04:45:59  <ccfreak2k> Or they just pile up behind it.
04:46:26  <A_Person> was wondering about that part, well, I'll have to test it
04:49:07  <roboboy> it depends what sort of road tile is before the station I think
04:49:31  <roboboy> if it is a corner they will not go around but if it is straight they should go around
04:50:32  <A_Person> I was just trying to decide wether to design my city with city blocks suitable for bus stops, ot try using the new feature, but it seems it'll push the cars towards open streets anyway, causing detours or someetihng like that
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06:31:36  <A_Person> I wonder if I can connect a dock to an airport that's two 2 tiles above sea level
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08:17:50  <Rubidium> stoorty: yes that is known and will be fixed
08:22:31  <roboboy> has the unpause bug on first join of a server been fixed
08:23:30  <DJGummikuh> Morning
08:23:35  <roboboy> The one where when someone joins a server for the first time, it does not unpause even if there are enough connections for min users
08:23:50  <DJGummikuh> I would love to have a way to automatically upgrade my rail vehicles
08:24:20  <DJGummikuh> from common to electrical, to mono, to maglev..
08:24:46  <DJGummikuh> I am currently running a game with (just) 44 Trains but can't find the motivation to switch them to maglev because it's simply too much clicking effort, which is a pita on a laptop
08:29:40  <petern> roboboy, i don't see it listed as a bug report
08:30:07  <petern> and you'll need a better description than that above, because it 'works for me'
08:31:31  <roboboy> hm well its happened to me twice on brianettas server
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08:31:56  <roboboy> the first time I connected to its current game and on an earlier game
08:36:12  <Eddi|zuHause> if it's not reported, there is near to no chance that it gets fixed
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08:41:11  <yorick> oh, ludde is back!
08:41:39  <ludde> not back.. just visiting :)
08:42:06  <Eddi|zuHause> advertising you mean ;)
08:42:10  <yorick> visiting 3 days in a row
08:42:36  <yorick> spamming a source of free unlimited music...and I can't even reach it :(
08:43:27  <Eddi|zuHause> use a proxy ;)
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08:44:33  <ludde> Eddi|zuHause: why do you have a german string in your nick?
08:44:42  <yorick> because he is german
08:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> because i am german?
08:44:51  <ludde> okay
08:44:55  <ludde> i guess
08:45:05  <ludde> internet should be english, though.
08:45:07  <ludde> ;)
08:45:30  <yorick> that's what all swedish say
08:45:35  <Eddi|zuHause> luckily, your opinion is not binding to everyone :)
08:49:48  <frosch123> yup, luckily :)
08:50:06  <yorick> internet should be dutch
08:50:28  <frosch123> do you think dutch is better then english :p
08:50:38  <yorick> for me...
08:50:46  <Eddi|zuHause> english is not even the most spoken language in the world
08:50:56  <A_Person> Hmm, the river tool seems odd
08:51:13  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: but the most spoken is this channel
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08:52:27  <Wolf01> hello
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08:53:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i still think german is a way more interesting and flexible language
08:54:12  <frosch123> how interesting and flexible is mandarin chinese ?
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08:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> it's also the most spoken native language in europe
08:55:02  <frosch123> english is the most spoken native language in uk though
08:55:16  <Eddi|zuHause> and the second most spoken foreign language
08:59:43  <A_Person> Hm, I wonder if I can have ships accessing a port one level up and inland through a river
09:00:19  <frosch123> you have to build a lock
09:00:31  <frosch123> ships cannot use uphill rivers
09:00:52  <A_Person> ah, I'll have to try it when I load the scenario
09:01:00  <A_Person> I hope I can put a lock under bridges
09:01:22  <frosch123> I guess not
09:02:13  <A_Person> Well, I'll just space out the bridges more
09:06:03  <A_Person> hmm, doesn't seem to support locks :/
09:06:23  <A_Person> oh, NM
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09:31:24  <A_Person> Any idea of ships can pass under low bridges?
09:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
09:38:34  <A_Person> Gut
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10:22:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r14459 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2343]: Update station-spread when building or removing oilrigs to make them consistent with station-spread-calculation on game-load and to make oilrig-stations behave like any other station type.
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10:25:04  <petern> Possible desyncer?
10:26:02  <frosch123> only when you manage to connect a oilrig station to a train station, road stop, airport or dock :)
10:26:43  <frosch123> but r14456 was one
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11:14:12  <A_Person> Wow, 2048 is ridiculously huge
11:14:42  <A_Person> There aren't even proper zoom levels for navigating such a map
11:15:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you navigate along tracks and villages
11:15:36  <A_Person> well, I mean understanding what's where
11:16:05  <A_Person> It's like looking at a globe through a peeping hole, heh
11:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you start at one spot, and expand from there
11:16:48  <Eddi|zuHause> after a few weeks of playing, you remember important places
11:17:17  <A_Person> I look around, and I get lost, I don't think I want to imagine what'll happen when my operations are spread around alot, I'd get lost
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11:18:07  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i once DID find a lost network on such a big map :p
11:18:24  <Eddi|zuHause> one that i started in the beginning of the game and forgot
11:18:30  <Eddi|zuHause> then found it again 40 years later :p
11:18:51  <A_Person> There's a difference between managing to find your way around and having an overview of what's what
11:18:51  <Eddi|zuHause> when the messages about old vehicles started to pop up :p
11:19:04  <A_Person> Heh
11:19:16  <Tilly14> And those came after 40 years?
11:19:30  <Eddi|zuHause> something around that
11:19:40  * A_Person is cutting holes into a 160k city for airport lots
11:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause> the DBSet's electric engine have lifetimes around that value
11:19:52  <Tilly14> OK
11:20:12  <Tilly14> Yeah, I don't play with the DBSet, just the Dutch Trainset Tester...
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11:20:33  <BlueEagle_NL> That's better... using the same name as at the forums...
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11:28:33  <A_Person> Hmm, I wonder if it's more expensive to buy land before building on it, if that feature still exists
11:28:58  <FauxFaux> It almost certainly is.
11:29:13  <A_Person> Not a big difference then?
11:29:58  <BlueEagle_NL> I don't think it'd make much difference, for building something would automatically buy the land as well...
11:29:58  <FauxFaux> £315+£15 vs. £90 in 1950.
11:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> buying land is expensive as hell
11:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and you don't get much for selling it again/building on it
11:30:50  <BlueEagle_NL> that's true, but sometimes it'd be better to buy some land when you have to 'reserve' it for later use
11:30:52  <FauxFaux> And annoying as hell.
11:31:00  <BlueEagle_NL> ie. expanding stations etc.
11:31:04  <A_Person> I was thinking of exactly that BlueEagle_NL
11:31:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the feature is definitely not balanced
11:31:32  <BlueEagle_NL> true...
11:32:31  <A_Person> Might not be able to buy 12 some intercontinental airports off the bat :/
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11:33:13  <BlueEagle_NL> in those cases it'd be handy to buy land beforehand...
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12:53:26  <A_Person> Wow, I'm enjoying this too much
13:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> there is no such thing as "enjoying too much"
13:15:51  <SpComb> if "this" means killing cute kittens, then yes
13:16:07  <SpComb> don't kill cute kittens
13:16:16  <frosch123> and non-cute ones?
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13:18:08  <SpComb> kind of depends
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13:21:24  <SmatZ> installed KDE4, tested it, was slowwww, rolled back to 3.5 ...
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13:22:23  <frosch123> wasn't "faster" part of release notes?
13:22:48  <SmatZ> yes...
13:22:53  <frosch123> :)
13:22:56  <SmatZ> but I get ~5 fps at desktop
13:23:09  <fjb> Did they say faster than what?
13:23:09  <SmatZ> and I lost my main panel
13:23:18  <SmatZ> and desktop isn't desktop anymore...
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13:23:27  <SmatZ> should be ~25% faster than 3.5
13:23:58  * fjb stays with 3.5
13:24:17  <SmatZ> :)
13:25:19  <FauxFaux> 8800gt disease.
13:26:50  <SmatZ> I got 8600GT
13:26:57  <SmatZ> and newest drivers
13:27:28  <FauxFaux> Does the fact that I predicted that not give you a hint? :p
13:28:28  <SmatZ> I won't change my card just to use newer KDE :)
13:28:57  <SmatZ> "KDE4 performance on NVidia 8600GT: problem solved by bying ATI" :-D
13:30:07  <glx> nice
13:30:30  <SmatZ> I will wait until it works without hacks and conf edits, because then I forget what I changed ... so it can introduce problems later :)
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13:43:34  <dih> why use kde anyway?
13:43:37  <dih> it's cluttered
13:43:43  <dih> too much gunck
13:43:46  <Gekz> why use a notepad
13:44:08  <dih> i dont
13:44:22  <SmatZ> I like it, maybe because I started using linux after many years at Windows, and I don't like big changes in my working environment :)
13:44:31  <dih> but kde is just as full with crap as windows is
13:44:35  <SmatZ> and it looks much better than Gnome imo :)
13:44:37  <dih> too much stuff running in the background
13:44:59  <dih> SmatZ, check out fluxbox :-P
13:45:02  <SmatZ> I have KDE at machine with 96MB RAM, no problem :)
13:45:08  <SmatZ> hehe yeah, I was using fluxbox :)
13:45:14  <dih> if you really want to go to extreems have a look at ratpoison
13:45:18  <SmatZ> but somehow, I missed icons at desktop
13:45:40  <dih> kde sucks :-P
13:45:46  <Gekz> KDE on 96mb of ram?
13:45:47  <Gekz> masochist.
13:45:57  <dih> Gekz, ever heard of old versions?
13:45:59  <SmatZ> it works very nicely there :)
13:46:03  <SmatZ> KDE 3.5
13:46:06  <dih> yuck
13:46:08  <Gekz> dih: yes.
13:46:12  <dih> ta
13:46:17  <Gekz> but it wasnt an old one
13:46:23  <Gekz> because he said fluxbox
13:46:30  <Gekz> and blackbox was out with KDE<2
13:46:36  <Gekz> Fluxbox == KDE>3
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13:47:15  <dih> Gekz, just because kde3 is available does not mean one is using kde3
13:47:27  <SmatZ> but I can't start X anymore there ... newer nvidia drivers + newer kernel + CPU without MTRR = crash
13:47:35  <dih> just because someone mentions kde and fluxbox does not mean one is using versions from the same release year
13:47:49  <Gekz> dih: it does.
13:47:54  <dih> it does not
13:47:57  <Gekz> it's a logical conclusion
13:48:02  <dih> it's a silly assumption
13:48:08  <Gekz> I'm willing to take risks
13:48:12  <Gekz> and KDE was always a memory hog
13:48:27  <dih> memory hog, yes
13:48:46  <dih> but using a memory hog from times where 24mb ram was a lot, does not mean it's an issue when you have 96mb ram
13:49:31  <dih> if you have limited resources you might start looking at older versions
13:49:55  <dih> esp if it's only your desktop look & feel things
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14:14:28  <CommanderZ> <flame>I love aero :) </flame>
14:15:31  <Wolf01> when it's not used by vista?
14:17:16  <SmatZ> I dislike it when I come to a computer with XP with that blue default theme... I set it to "normal" theme, logout, login, and it is blue again! :(
14:17:41  <glx> aero is nice (it just need a lot of memory)
14:18:25  <glx> like vista ;)
14:18:56  <SmatZ> hasta la vista, baby
14:19:26  <glx> and word 2003 sometimes work sometimes crash on start
14:19:40  <SmatZ> 8-)
14:20:35  <yorick> writer!
14:20:46  <glx> oh and you must run visual studio 2005 as admin if you want to be able to debug web services :)
14:20:55  <yorick> mingw!
14:21:12  <yorick> and php, not
14:22:53  <glx> ooo works well but sometimes you don't have the choice
14:23:19  <glx> try to view a pps with openoffice
14:23:20  <yorick> when are your sometimes?
14:23:25  <yorick> works
14:23:31  <glx> but looks ugly
14:23:59  <yorick> I do not care
14:25:37  <SmatZ> try to open open office sheet in excel
14:25:43  <SmatZ> it will fail :)
14:25:48  <SmatZ> or at least it did last time I tried
14:26:21  <SmatZ> doesn't MS offer free viewer for powerpoint?
14:26:28  <glx> it does
14:26:32  <frosch123> try to explain someone to use csv
14:26:35  <frosch123> you will fail :)
14:26:51  <glx> with csv you lose all macros I think ;)
14:27:10  <CommanderZ> and all other formatting
14:27:31  <yorick> there on the forums you got another person who thinks he can do the maxspeed for roadvehicles properly
14:27:42  <yorick> and he did that by changing getDisplaySpeed :-p
14:27:49  <SmatZ> :)
14:28:08  <frosch123> yorick: tell him, he shall implement property 0x15
14:28:25  <yorick> I just told him to look at acceleration code
14:28:28  <glx> nah NFO is scary and too hard ;)
14:28:31  <yorick> and you can do that aswell :)
14:28:36  <yorick> tt-forums developement
14:28:55  <yorick> nfo is scary and too hard ;)
14:29:29  <frosch123> [16:30] <glx> nah NFO is scary and too hard ;) <- why did I read "handy" ... oO
14:29:57  <yorick> bad frosch123
14:30:05  <Eddi|zuHause> someone implement a high level compiler into NFO!
14:30:10  <Eddi|zuHause> ... err... wait...
14:30:11  <Gekz> frosch123: I did also
14:30:14  <Gekz> its a mind trick
14:30:20  <Gekz> because your eyes transpose scary of hard
14:30:27  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: get back to your thesis :)
14:31:04  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, it's sunday after all
14:31:33  <glx> :)
14:33:04  <Alberth> hmm, not generating foundation sprites to be drawn underneath stations/airports/etc seems not so simple.... :(
14:33:38  <frosch123> fs119 ?
14:33:50  <Alberth> yep, having a go :)
14:34:05  <petern> Sprite combining does not work there?
14:35:14  <Alberth> it does (I think), but why do all kind of difficult tricks in rendering when you know they won't be displayed at the time you generate the sprites?
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14:35:36  <petern> Oh, true.
14:35:43  <petern> I was just thinking of edges.
14:36:11  <SmatZ> maybe if "z" was the only taken into account when the bounding boxes don't overlay...
14:36:53  <Alberth> I tried that yesterday, you get nice stairs here and there :)
14:36:54  <frosch123> SmatZ: my old patch did that :)
14:37:21  <SmatZ> I guess frosch123 has tried everything :)
14:37:51  <fjb> Oh, a system that magically merges all patches into a working one... coll idea. Why didn't I have that yet. Would have saved me a lot of time applying patches by hand.
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14:39:08  <Alberth> don't update, saves a lot of time, you'll never have to apply a patch more than once :P
14:39:28  <SmatZ> cat ~/ottdpatches/* | patch -p 0 -l -F 666
14:39:30  <SmatZ> ;-)
14:39:49  <SmatZ> and pray the patches won't collide ;)
14:39:57  <frosch123> yup applying is easy, compiling is the hard part :)
14:40:39  <fjb> frosch123: I didn't think about that. The forum posts didn't mention compiling. That is the magic trick.
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14:45:57  <glx> applying multiple patches at the same time is as easy as doing a sync in a branch :)
14:46:06  <SmatZ> :-)
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15:36:11  <DJGummikuh> Hey about a yera or so in the past I talked with some of you about some kind of global unique ID or so to fend of jerks... has there been any progress on that topic?
15:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> no
15:38:08  <DJGummikuh> hmm.. I really would prefer having such a thing..
15:38:18  <DJGummikuh> though it would make it costly to host such a server
15:40:09  <DJGummikuh> how about some kind of username/password authentication against the game server?
15:40:40  <DJGummikuh> so that there could for example be a file somewhere the server periodically polls (like once every 10 seconds or so) which contians usernames and password hashes
15:40:58  <DJGummikuh> then you could relay the management of accounts to the server hoster
15:41:19  <DJGummikuh> by for example using a php script to edit this file everybody could stich together his own account management or so
15:41:34  <Eddi|zuHause> in open source programs, no such authentification can't be fooled by changing two lines of code...
15:42:04  <Eddi|zuHause> which makes them worthless
15:42:05  <DJGummikuh> then why can't you fool ssh in letting you in on my server?
15:42:28  <DJGummikuh> you would have to change two lines of code inside the SERVER - but clients dont get access to the server's codebase
15:43:00  <DJGummikuh> if the server has a password hash and requests the user to send him the password to compare against a hash the client can do anything he wants with his client
15:43:04  <DJGummikuh> without the proper password he won't get in
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15:43:17  <DJGummikuh> given of course that the server denies a connection without proper authentication
15:44:12  <DJGummikuh> what you mustn't do is put the authentication logic into the client... then, of course, it can be hacked
15:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> you can already set server passwords
15:44:19  <DJGummikuh> yes but it's all or nothing
15:44:37  <SmatZ> you could easily modify server to accept multiple valid passwords
15:44:49  <DJGummikuh> if you would have some kind of account management, you could simply delete someones account, then "cancel" registration and he has no way of getting back in
15:44:52  <DJGummikuh> even if he redials
15:44:54  <SmatZ> so it could be "username:password" or so
15:44:59  <SmatZ> as password
15:45:37  <DJGummikuh> SmatZ: it would be ideal if the server would get the valid combinations out of a file which only gets periodically read so it can be changed from an outside application
15:46:12  <DJGummikuh> btw I love the new feature of default company password :) because i ALLWAYS forgot to set a pass for my company
15:47:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i think that is implemented meanwhile
15:47:57  <DJGummikuh> and one other thing if this were to happen the server administrator would have to be able to create custom denial messages... so that if someone first connects he gets a red messagebox "you need an account to play on this server. please travel to"
15:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think that is feasable
15:49:22  <DJGummikuh> quick translation of the word feasable please? ;-D
15:49:35  <DJGummikuh> (german translation that is)
15:49:40  <Eddi|zuHause> but a server description beyond the title was discussed many times
15:49:44  <Eddi|zuHause> just not implemented
15:50:04  <DJGummikuh> hmm
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15:53:26  <DJGummikuh> yeah a server description would do as well I guess
15:53:43  <Eddi|zuHause> (i misspelled it)
15:54:33  <DJGummikuh> wouldn't it've been easier for you just to type the german word? ^^
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15:57:55  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
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16:25:56  <MOG> what happens if I try to join an online game where I dont have the needed grf files?
16:26:44  <Ammler> you don't
16:27:11  <MOG> Ammler: so I cant join the game?
16:27:27  <MOG> ok, can I add newgrfs as normal user too or do I've to be root?
16:27:42  <glx> put them in your user dir
16:27:49  <glx> what's your os?
16:27:52  <Ammler> ~./openttd/
16:28:05  <Ammler> ~/.openttd/
16:28:15  <glx> data ;)
16:28:46  <MOG> ~/.openttd/ just contains a folder save - so when I create a new folder data and put it in it'll work?
16:28:53  <glx> yes
16:29:07  <MOG> nice to know - thank you
16:29:23  <glx> it's all explained in the donotreadme file ;)
16:29:27  <Ammler> well, if you read the readme, you would.
16:30:31  <MOG> Indeed I just found the wiki page about it ;)
16:31:20  <MOG> But in the first step it said I'd need root privileges (now I'm at the bottom :) ) - Maybe someone should add a note ala "root privileges required - for user rights see below"
16:31:45  <glx> the wiki page is probably from before 0.6.x
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16:54:41  <Ammler> you really don't like to be downwards compatible ;-) (
16:57:28  <A_Person> I'm totally mad
16:58:19  <A_Person> I spent hours assimilating sattellite citye's street gid into phase (somewhat) with a central gigantic city
16:58:44  <Ammler> heh, can't fix it, wikipedia is down for edits.
17:02:03  <Alberth> can a dv please throw my doxygen patch in trunk?
17:02:07  <Alberth> s/dv/dev/
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17:04:25  <ln_> please wait 6 months first
17:05:42  <Alberth> If I have more patches waiting, is waiting time reduced ?
17:05:57  <Ammler> Alberth: why don't you use FS?
17:06:23  <Rubidium> pastebin is *very* good in making patches invalid
17:06:29  <Alberth> well, it is just simple doxygen additions, it feels like overkill to make an issue for it
17:07:19  <glx> like killing @@ for line numbers?
17:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> flyspray is the only place where patches go, how would that be overkill, just because it's a documentation patch?
17:08:38  *** grumbel [] has joined #openttd
17:08:45  <glx> and it's not a oneliner
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17:08:54  <Rubidium> glx: yup
17:09:23  <Ammler> I have a oneliner: svn diff -c443 svn:// | patch -p0 -R
17:09:33  <Ammler> $
17:09:59  <Alberth> download from pastebin does work
17:10:35  <Alberth> well, if you don't like it, fine. I'll save it for later
17:10:39  *** thingwath [] has joined #openttd
17:11:40  <Ammler> Alberth: posting at FS isn't much harder then at pastebin.
17:11:46  <Ammler> than
17:13:05  <Alberth> Ammler: I know
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17:21:53  <Zoney> hi everybody
17:22:24  <d-mike> hi
17:23:51  <yorick> hi
17:24:10  <Zoney> do you know how to find out the ip of a game you start?
17:26:09  <yorick> how do you mean?
17:26:34  <Ammler> Zoney:
17:27:02  <yorick> :')
17:27:34  <Chrill> Ammler lol
17:28:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Linux / Safari <- there's something wrong with the detection
17:28:48  <Zoney> do you know what port it needs open?
17:28:57  <yorick> the port you specify
17:29:09  <yorick> usually 3979
17:29:16  <Zoney> how do tell it to use it
17:29:24  <yorick> console
17:29:38  <yorick> server_ip
17:29:56  <yorick> server_port
17:29:57  <yorick> I mean
17:30:08  <Zoney> dunak
17:30:10  <Alberth> Zoney: look/edit openttd.cfg
17:30:19  <Zoney> thanks :D
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17:37:53  <Zoney> so if i open that port i can have my game on the master list?
17:42:58  <FauxFaux> It'll do it by itself.
17:44:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14460 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:44:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-12 17:43:44
17:44:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: bulgarian - 6 fixed, 1 changed by kokobongo (7)
17:44:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 6 fixed by WhiteRabbit (6)
17:44:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: ido - 43 fixed by Cecile (43)
17:44:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 6 changed by lorenzodv (6)
17:44:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 41 changed by dlunch (41)
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17:50:28  <yorick> Zoney: you also need to have server_advertise on
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17:53:51  <Ammler> Zoney: port 3978 is for advertising
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18:01:51  <glx> Ammler: 3978 is outgoing only so it shouldn't be a problem for any router (but of course it can for a firewall)
18:08:44  <A_Person> Any idea WTH is town-road layout "better roads"
18:09:04  <glx> try it in a newgame
18:09:13  <glx> and compare with an old game
18:09:29  <A_Person> hmmm
18:09:45  <A_Person> I never allowed towns to grow the old wa anyway, as much as I could
18:09:54  <A_Person> 3*3 seems to be almost decent
18:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i dislike grids
18:13:57  <A_Person> It's the only way to maintain my sanity, heh
18:14:34  <A_Person> But I went all silly combatting grids of different cities merging nastily
18:15:28  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the grids are not synchronised, that is a serious problem
18:15:40  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have such problems with "better roads"
18:16:05  <Eddi|zuHause> as they grow more natural, and adapt to the existing roads around them
18:16:05  <A_Person> I'll have to set up an experiment to see what that's about
18:16:25  <A_Person> well, the original roads "adapted" aswell
18:16:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but better roads do that better ;)
18:18:09  <A_Person> Well, I'm almost certan I'd take the large grid over the kind of "adapting" I've seen so far
18:18:37  <A_Person> Gah, Configure Patches doesn't save the settings!
18:18:39  * A_Person fumes
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18:30:10  <A_Person> Why the hell does the game insist on not using autopause when opening a scenario
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18:33:56  * pseudoprometheus waves to everyone.
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18:36:41  <Eddi|zuHause> A_Person: it does save the settings, but if you change them in a running game, they will only be changed for that one game
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19:02:35  <ln_>
19:05:26  <petern> English only!
19:08:31  <ln_> i don't think the photo as such is in any language.
19:13:27  <valhalla1w> auch.
19:15:45  <ln_> anyway, it's sweden's railway department's campaign poster.
19:19:27  <Chrill> Sweeeden?
19:20:03  <valhalla1w> no. Schweeeeeeden.
19:21:09  <Chrill> ack
19:21:57  <pseudoprometheus> ...
19:22:03  <pseudoprometheus> You people are strange.
19:25:10  <ln_> pseudoprometheus: so you say, and haven't even seen Bjarni yet.
19:25:28  <pseudoprometheus> haha, should I be afraid?
19:26:00  <Eddi|zuHause> # so sweet die sweden auch sind
19:26:04  <ln_> nah, he's mostly strange on the logical level.
19:26:06  <Eddi|zuHause> # du bist, du bist nicht daheim
19:26:14  <Eddi|zuHause> # nur irgend, irgendwo drin
19:26:22  <Eddi|zuHause> # wie jeder, jeder allein
19:27:53  *** ln_ is now known as ln
19:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (of course they don't actually say "sweden")
19:31:21  <Chrill> Sweden is the win
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20:01:49  <A_Person> €630 per pice of land bought in 2048
20:11:56  *** SteGriff [] has joined #openttd
20:12:07  <SteGriff> Hello
20:12:18  <SteGriff> Anyone around?
20:12:37  <Rubidium> nope
20:12:59  <SteGriff> Hi
20:13:32  <SteGriff> I would like to make OpenTTD as much like the original as possible; ie turn off every extra feature. Is there a quick/easy way of doing that, or do I need to sift thorugh the settings?
20:14:27  <petern> the latter
20:14:43  <SteGriff> damns
20:14:49  <petern> you could just play ttd?
20:15:02  <SteGriff> It runs out of stack buffers after short play
20:15:08  <SteGriff> I play fullscreen under Dosbox
20:16:01  <SteGriff> ...and thus crashes fatally
20:16:06  <petern> :9
20:16:07  <petern> :(
20:17:36  <SteGriff> The PC is fine. I have 2gb ram on Intel dual core
20:17:43  <SteGriff> its the fullscreen that does it
20:18:59  <SteGriff> Well, I'll sort something out. Thanks anyways. Gtg
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20:26:44  <A_Person> Any clue if mail or passenger only aircraf work better?
20:28:20  <frosch123> is there any passenger only aircraft?
20:31:05  <A_Person> dunno, I don't remember what happened when refitting for passengers
20:31:41  <frosch123> refitting to passengers means refitting to passengers&mail
20:31:51  <A_Person> Could be
20:32:17  <frosch123> so you would need a newgrf supplying an aircraft with a mail capacity 0
20:32:52  <A_Person> nono, I'm just pondering, I'm not even managing my games to sufficient debth for it to matter yet
20:35:26  <ln> who knows how is Don Rosa?
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20:59:45  <A_Person> Hm, I wonder if there's any benefit from me building the city's roads
21:00:09  <MOG> A_Person: you can build busstops on them
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21:00:39  <Zuu> A_Person: You can decide where to buld them, eg. build straight roads for your vehicles to drive on.
21:02:16  <MOG> hm.. what do I get for buying shares from another company?
21:03:12  *** CommanderZ [] has quit []
21:03:43  <Zuu> You may get papers from them in your mailbox
21:04:17  <Zuu> Oh.. you was talking about OpenTTD, my bad...
21:04:19  <A_Person> if the company whose shares you have increase in value you make money?
21:04:46  * Zuu was thinking about bying shares IRL
21:04:56  <A_Person> Crap, I thought I had tramways turned on, can't find where to build 'em
21:05:14  <A_Person> well, same principle...
21:05:23  <MOG> hm, can I buy my own stock?
21:05:32  <Zuu> If you have loaded a tram set, then click and hold the road button.
21:05:45  <Zuu> You will be able to select trams there.
21:06:17  <A_Person> ah! I didn't make that jump of logic, hah
21:10:21  <A_Person> mm, I luv, tramstops in the middle of the street!
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21:14:38  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:29:44  <Eoin> ello
21:29:57  <Eoin> Anyone here used BuildOTTD before?
21:30:46  <pseudoprometheus> Not me, no.
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21:31:35  <Zuu> Eoin problem to download source from SVN?
21:31:49  <Eoin> Well
21:31:53  <Eoin> That yes :P
21:32:05  <Eoin> Im trying to compile it for NewGRF_Ports
21:32:05  <petern> to download -> downloading
21:32:07  <Eoin> but i fail :P
21:32:15  <petern> I dunno ;)
21:32:40  <petern> Maybe it just doesn't compile? heh
21:32:41  <Zuu> I think BuildOTTD got affected by the changes to the new server 1-2 months ago.
21:32:41  <Eoin> tis svn://
21:32:55  <Eoin> I cba to dload tortoise svn again :(
21:33:13  <Ammler> svn didn't change
21:33:14  <Zuu> I don't know if it has seen any update. Might be a work around written down somewhere in the thread.
21:33:24  <Zuu> Ammler: Ok
21:34:03  <Zuu> hm, and yes you are right, never had to change my checkout procedures hehe
21:37:01  <Eoin> Well
21:37:10  <Eoin> is there any easier way to use a .diff
21:37:15  <Eoin> i mean, compile wise
21:37:47  <Zuu> I ues tortoise and visual studio in windows.
21:37:56  <Zuu> In Linux it is easier.
21:37:56  <Eoin> you can use VS?
21:38:12  <Eoin> i have a ubuntu install
21:38:14  <Zuu> Eoin: Yes you can do. There are guides for that on the wiki.
21:38:20  <Eoin> but i fail at using linux :P
21:39:12  <Zuu> The guides are for VS Express 2003 and 2008 respective.
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21:39:29  <Zuu> (if i got the years correct)
21:43:27  <Eoin> Well
21:43:34  <Eoin> i downloaded the svn directory
21:43:37  <Eoin> but im stuck from there :P
21:44:15  <Zuu> Have you read the wiki?
21:44:35  <Zuu> Installed the development kits that are necessary?
21:44:42  <Eoin> uhmm xD
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21:45:25  <Zuu> You have appearantly not read the wiki on how to set up VS for compiling OpenTTD then ;-)
21:45:38  <Eoin> Well
21:45:43  *** XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc
21:45:45  <Eoin> it has a install.bat file
21:45:49  <Eoin> but it dosent seem to do much :(
21:46:14  <Zuu> what has an install.bat file?
21:46:18  <Eoin> svn://
21:46:46  <Zuu> Open it in notepad and see what it does.
21:47:21  <Zuu> But you should need to setup either cygwin, msys or VS or any other compile environment to be able to compile OpenTTD.
21:47:43  <Zuu> BulidOTTD comes with a working msys environment as far as I've heard.
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21:49:35  <Eoin> i gief up P
21:49:37  <Eoin> xD
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21:49:57  <Zuu> Eoin have you tried: ?
21:50:07  <Zuu> Or for 2008 edition of visual studio express?
21:50:55  <Zuu> It takes maybe 2 hours to complete but it is doable with some basic computer common sense.
21:51:56  <Eoin> i didnt register my express edition
21:51:59  <Eoin> so i cant use it :S
21:52:10  <Zuu> Then register it..
21:52:23  <Zuu> The license for it is fairly good.
21:53:04  <Zuu> The acedemic student license for VS is much more strict than the one for express.
21:54:11  <Eoin> already done
21:54:13  <Eoin> that was quick lol
21:54:51  <Zuu> See, by instead of thinking NOOOOO I will not do that, it can be done in just the same time of sayning no.
21:56:36  <Zuu> Expect the wiki procedure to take 1-3 hours, so don't get disapointed if it takes a while for installing the platfrom SDK, direct X etc.
21:57:20  <Zuu> (that was given that you have fast broad band, if you have slow internet allow some more time for downloading)
21:58:01  <Eoin> im on 2mb internet
21:58:04  <Eoin> sux :P
22:00:26  <Zuu> When testing my throughput after getting a new router I got 80 Mbit downstream. (have a 100/10Mbit connection)
22:01:11  <Zuu> In your case you can see what the file sizes are, and might want to think about learning to do it in linux if you want to minimize the amount of files to download. Or you learn to use the msys environment you got with BuildOTTD.
22:02:46  <Zuu> Good luck! (I will go to bed now, so also: good night!)
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22:34:41  <A_Person> Hm, I wonder if AI can demolish my tramways
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23:15:31  <A_Person> gah, town isn't allowing me to build more airports!
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23:18:46  <ben_goodger> A_Person: bribe 'em
23:20:18  <A_Person> Think a city'll allow more than two intercontinental airports
23:20:37  <A_Person> they labelled me as good, and now they're being nasty, heh
23:20:37  <ln> "city'll"
23:20:53  <A_Person> +? for that one
23:21:05  <FauxFaux> Looks like good grammar to me, ln.
23:21:20  <A_Person> Hmm, I see what he might mean, it'd be a bitch to pronounce
23:21:22  <A_Person> :/
23:21:24  <ln> FauxFaux: grammar fine, orthography not so.
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23:21:40  <A_Person> I've never seen 'll written otherwise
23:21:52  *** Sacro|Laptop [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
23:21:58  <ln> I've seen it written as "will".
23:22:08  <A_Person> that's the word that it's short for
23:22:21  <ln> correcto.
23:22:24  <A_Person> it's  not code for the word, but instead the sound that replaces the word
23:22:52  <A_Person> so there's no ortographycal flaw in using that form
23:23:04  <A_Person> stylistical maybe, not orthographical
23:23:53  <ln> also whether it is "right" or "wrong" depends on how we define right and wrong.
23:24:32  <A_Person> you seem to apply some magical rules of ortography to a matter of word usage, not writing technicalities
23:24:51  <A_Person> orthography is merely a tool for representing language :P
23:25:04  *** Sacro [~ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:25:16  <ln> yes
23:25:37  <A_Person> see what bribing got me when I had very good to begin with, I'm regarded of poorly now!
23:25:47  * A_Person has certanly failed grammar there
23:30:51  <A_Person> Wow, the very smooth +mountaneous generator gives some pretty results
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23:43:30  <A_Person> Maybe I should try fighting my annoyance with chaos and obsruction in this game and try my luck with a different approach
23:43:34  <A_Person> grr, too many lakes
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