Log for #openttd on 23rd October 2008:
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00:14:47  <SpComb> depressive wikipedia politics :(
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07:14:37  <dih> say i run a dedicated server
07:14:49  <dih> no - let me start differently
07:15:00  <dih> when i start openttd (graphically)
07:15:13  <dih> change a setting and run saveconfig on the console
07:15:27  <dih> changes are written to the config file as expected
07:16:02  <dih> however, changing a setting in a running game and deciding one would like to save that, and one runs saveconfig on the consoel, it does not save the settings from the game
07:16:48  <dih> esp on a dedicated server this is a bain up the rear end
07:17:06  <dih> when someone changes a setting on the dedicated server console and would like to save that to the file
07:17:17  <dih> running saveconfig has absolutely no effect
07:22:01  <Celestar> morning
07:25:36  <dih> good morning Celestar
07:26:21  <petern> afaik, saveconfig just causes the start up config to be saved, it does not cause the running config to be copied to the start up config, and then saved
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07:27:39  <petern> (heh, cisco terminology, but it works)
07:29:25  <dih> petern: that would mean that if i am in the main menu und run patch max_trains 0 and then saveconfig that the config file would still hold 500
07:29:40  <dih> or das the change have an influence on the 'startup config'?
07:30:39  <dih> eitherway, esp. on a dedicated server it would be of help if saveconfig saved the config of the running game
07:31:30  <dih> or if it was triggered with a flag to the console command saveconfig
07:33:56  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14512 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_rail.cpp ai_rail.hpp.sq): [NoAI] -Fix (r14511): wrong args passed to AIObject::DoCommand() and don't forget to run (Yexo)
07:34:47  * Celestar burps
07:36:59  * dih pats Celestar on the back
07:37:04  <Celestar> :P
07:37:24  <Celestar> note to self: copying 350GB onto a 120GB partition is stupid
07:37:36  <dih> LOL
07:37:48  <dih> you ninkompoop
07:38:26  <dih> petern: e.g. i ban someone and need to restart the server, the ban is gone!
07:40:14  <dih> very not what someone wants :-P
07:41:03  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14513 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
07:41:03  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-22 17:26:32
07:41:03  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: czech - 6 fixed by Hadez (6)
07:41:03  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: indonesian - 121 fixed by dnaftali (120), Admin (1)
07:41:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: italian - 1 changed by lorenzodv (1)
07:41:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: korean - 15 changed by dlunch (15)
07:41:06  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: latvian - 20 fixed by v3rb0 (20)
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07:44:46  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14514 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs):
07:44:46  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Codechange: use 'size' instead of 'length' for querystring and textbuf, explicitly say it includes the terminating zero
07:44:46  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: one couldn't rename things with too long default/automatic name
07:44:46  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix: buffer overflow in console when too long (1024 bytes) command was entered
07:45:06  <dih> ban
07:45:07  <dih> ERROR: Invalid client
07:45:10  <dih> wtf?
07:45:19  <dih> it should add the ip to the banlist!
07:45:29  <dih> it only works when the client is actually in the game?
07:46:58  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14515 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r7759): iconv is included in glibc-2.1 and higher, so we don't need to link to a most likely non-existing libiconv in those situations.
07:47:02  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14516 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: -Fix: determine the default text direction based on the language file instead of hardcoding one.
07:47:20  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14517 /trunk/src/network/network_gui.cpp: -Feature: arrow key scrolling in the server list (Roujin)
07:47:24  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14518 /trunk/src/ (os2.cpp win32.cpp): -Fix (r14514): forgot win32 and OS/2 files (glx)
07:50:20  <dih> Rubidium: r14516 <- NICE
07:52:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14519 /trunk/ -Fix [FS#2376]: do not use the short hash form for getting a specific mercurial/git revision as those can collide quite easily causing reversion detection to fail (PhilSophus)
07:52:48  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14520 /branches/noai/ (23 files in 6 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r14497:14519
07:53:54  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14521 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2378]: fast trains could continue to move after a crash
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07:57:50  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: glx * r14522 /trunk/projects/determineversion.vbs: -Fix: apply r14519 to determineversion.vbs. Also properly set 'modified' for hg and git (was always 1).
07:58:40  <planetmaker> g'day
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08:03:23  <dih> hello planetmaker
08:03:33  <Celestar> hey planetmaker
08:03:36  <Celestar> how are the planets?
08:04:16  <planetmaker> they're wandering their realms - as they've done fore eons and as they'll do fore eons once even the age of men is long past :P
08:04:29  <planetmaker> heya dih, heya Celestar :)
08:05:04  <planetmaker> actually... weather makes them elude me :)
08:06:39  <Celestar> I'd like to do some astrophysics now :(
08:13:52  <eMJay> quick question, why is there no classes in the ottd code?
08:14:08  <eMJay> i should say, why /are/ there no classes...
08:14:18  <petern> i should say, what code are you looking at?
08:14:36  <eMJay> the trunk code...
08:14:41  <petern> clearly not
08:14:47  <eMJay> looks like all structs to me
08:15:02  <petern> structs and classes. is that a problem?
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08:16:48  <eMJay> you'll have to forgive me, I'm reasonably new to C++ (I've learned and used mainly Java and C#) but aren't classes typically easier to understand?
08:17:56  <petern> in c++, structs and classes are the same
08:18:14  <petern> almost
08:18:27  <petern> structs default to public
08:18:27  <eMJay> structs just don't have methods, correct?
08:18:38  <petern> no
08:19:02  <Celestar> eMJay: nope
08:19:13  <petern> as in, not correct ;)
08:19:19  <Celestar> eMJay: diffence between structs and classes is that classes default to private and structs default to public
08:20:07  <eMJay> ok cool
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08:20:56  <dih> why do i not find any console in the openttd code?
08:21:00  <Rubidium> I wonder why you want to make a list of all classes?
08:21:03  <dih> i find IConsole, but that is not the same is it?
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08:25:15  <Celestar> dih: ?
08:25:22  <Celestar> Rubidium: doxygen will provide already a lot of classes
08:26:02  <Rubidium> Celestar: that's why I'm wondering why eMJay wants to make a list of classes (see wiki)
08:26:49  <petern> presumably to try to understand stuff
08:27:15  <Rubidium> Celestar: you should sync cargodest (people having problems with issues already fixed in trunk)
08:29:49  <petern> hmm, only one conflict in railtypes
08:29:57  <petern> last synced in september
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08:39:59  <Celestar> Rubidium: ok
08:40:05  <eMJay> I'm using the wiki as a sortof scribbling pad to understand the structure of the code
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08:40:42  <eMJay> I want to have a go at putting together a FIFO signals patch, but not really sure where to begin
08:41:24  <Celestar> gnah
08:41:37  <Celestar> I've somehow misplaced the URL I need to push to :P
08:42:56  <planetmaker> [10:40]	<eMJay>	I want to have a go at putting together a FIFO signals patch, but not really sure where to begin <--- why yet another kind of signals?
08:44:05  <eMJay> not another kind of signal, a modification to the current kind
08:44:16  <Celestar> :S
08:45:12  <eMJay> FS #2158 is one that I opened, but there are others in a similar vein
08:45:47  <Celestar> Rubidium: done
08:45:50  <Celestar> (=
08:45:56  <eMJay> basically, at an intersection with many entrances, the train that was waiting the longest should be the one to proceed first when the signal goes green
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08:49:03  <blathijs> eMJay: didn't that happen already before? I seem to remember a waiting time being kept per train, but I'm not so sure
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08:50:01  <eMJay> I don't beleive it does, r14508 doesn't...
08:51:41  <dih> 10:25 <@Celestar> dih: ? <- i was mocking eMJay
08:53:15  <dih> blathijs: that's with pbs
08:53:27  <dih> afaik
08:55:48  <petern> blathijs: the waiting time was for turning around, not priority
08:56:08  <dih> ah - and that
08:56:42  <dih> eMJay: you can create a FIFO system with using logic gates :-D
08:57:53  <eMJay> well, yes.
08:58:05  <eMJay> but technically, you could build almost anything with logic gates
08:58:16  <dih> yep
08:58:18  <Celestar> what the HELL is wrong with my server
08:58:20  <Celestar> Device:    rrqm/s wrqm/s   r/s   w/s  rsec/s  wsec/s    rkB/s    wkB/s avgrq-sz avgqu-sz   await  svctm  %util
08:58:23  <Celestar> sda          0.40   0.00 128.80 121.40 2531.20 1190.00  1265.60   595.00    14.87     7.41   34.80   4.00 100.00
08:58:42  <dih> heh
08:58:46  <blathijs> petern: Ah, you're right
08:58:51  <Celestar> dih: it's not funny
08:58:57  <dih> sure it's not
08:59:01  <Gekz> it needs an rm -rf /
08:59:03  <Gekz> that'll fix her
08:59:04  <Gekz> !
08:59:05  <eMJay> Celestar: what are you serving?
08:59:06  <Celestar> doing ls on a directory on the server takes up to 15 seconds
08:59:17  <Celestar> eMJay: departmental /homes :)
08:59:21  <dih> eMJay: a FIFO signal system would only be of interest if it was switchable
08:59:25  <dih> and not just for the game
08:59:38  <dih> Celestar: free?
08:59:41  <eMJay> dih, how do you mean switchable?
08:59:47  <Celestar> dih: what do you mean?
08:59:49  <eMJay> as in, you could turn off FIFO behaviour?
08:59:54  <dih> type free!
09:00:04  <Celestar> ]# free -m total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
09:00:04  <Celestar> Mem:          3903       3881         21          0          0       3224
09:00:04  <Celestar> -/+ buffers/cache:        656       3246
09:00:06  <dih> eMJay: why would i want every signal block to use a FIFO system
09:00:36  <dih> Celestar: there is some echo <number> /proc/<somehwere> you can do to free up some mem
09:00:48  <Celestar> dih: why do I need to free mem?
09:00:56  <eMJay> because it would lead to more even utilisation of the signal block by all the entrances of that block
09:00:57  <Celestar> it's all cache anyway
09:00:57  <petern> there's loads of free mem there
09:01:03  <dih> sometimes a linux system can mem odd stuff that you dont need anymore
09:01:22  <Celestar> I have an I/O problem, not a mem problem, have I not?
09:01:57  <eMJay> for i in `ps aux`; do killall $i;
09:02:17  <petern> all the linux experts are here today
09:02:18  <Celestar> I can't do these experiments on a production server :P
09:02:21  <eMJay> hahaha
09:02:37  <Celestar> otherwise people will siege my office in no time
09:02:48  <eMJay> dih: why wouldn't you want FIFO signal blocks?
09:02:59  <eMJay> priority i assume?
09:03:15  <petern> priority, performance...
09:03:16  <dih> eMJay: i like more controll over my priority
09:03:30  <eMJay> isn't that done with presignals?
09:03:32  <petern> some people might want to keep exsting behaviour
09:04:28  <dih> eMJay: i.e. 2 lanes, 1 with prio
09:04:48  <dih> prio line always gets prio over the other line
09:04:59  <Celestar> disk I/O is WAAAAAY to high
09:05:31  <dih> expect if there is a bunch of trains waiting at the prio line so that the queue too far back, then the odd train from the 2nd lane may go
09:06:36  <Brianetta> priority should be governed by train orders.
09:06:39  <blathijs> What is the current behaviour anyway? You can't set priority, or can you?
09:07:02  <blathijs> Isn't it currently the train with the lowest ID that gets to go first or something?
09:07:09  <Brianetta> blathijs: Yes.
09:07:19  <Brianetta> That's if they're all actually waiting.
09:07:38  <eMJay> I thought it was more like, whichever the game tries to move first
09:07:43  <eMJay> after the light goes green
09:08:15  <eMJay> eg trains 1 and 3 are waiting for train 2 to clear a signal block
09:08:16  <blathijs> Yeah, so probably lowest id first I think
09:08:20  <petern> nope
09:08:26  <petern> depends which train gets to move first
09:08:32  <eMJay> train 1 tries to move, but can't
09:08:38  <eMJay> train 2 moves and clears the block
09:08:40  <petern> so generally the most powerful train
09:08:45  <eMJay> train 3 moves into the block
09:08:52  <blathijs> petern: Trains are sorted by speed, or what/
09:08:57  <petern> no sorting
09:08:59  <eMJay> thus, in this case train 3 is higher prio
09:09:21  <petern> just a lower power train won't be able to move quickly enough
09:09:39  <eMJay> how far away from the boundary of the sigblock do trains stop?
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09:15:34  <eMJay> Ok, so at the moment, a signal block with regular signals and two equal trains waiting will allow a (semi) random train to go first
09:16:09  <eMJay> with non-equal trains, the train with higher acceleration will tend to go first, but it is still (semi) random
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09:17:01  <dih> nooooooo
09:18:13  <eMJay> no?
09:25:29  <dih> no!
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09:39:48  <petern> $ free
09:39:49  <petern>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
09:39:49  <petern> Mem:       4091844      58652    4033192          0       4200      26752
09:39:49  <petern> -/+ buffers/cache:      27700    4064144
09:39:50  <petern> heh
09:39:56  <petern> freeboots :o
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09:50:19  <dih> for some reason my comp will not use the last GB of memory i have
09:50:23  <dih> it's not even shown... :-(
09:50:30  <dih> perhaps i need to flash my bios
09:50:42  <dih> it's only using 3 of the 4
09:50:44  <dih> :-(
09:50:56  <Celestar> dih: even on a 64-bit kernel?
09:51:03  <dih> oh....
09:51:15  <dih> have not tried the 64 bit
09:51:24  <petern> my 4GB works with a 32 bit kernel
09:51:33  <Celestar> petern: is that with PAE?
09:51:38  <dih> my bios does not even look at more than 3
09:51:54  <petern> yeah
09:52:05  <petern> has to be :)
09:52:28  <Celestar> it doesn't :P
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09:52:33  <Celestar> but then you only see 2GB
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09:57:20  <eMJay> dih: windows xp?
09:58:09  <Celestar> Windows XP can address more than 2GB?
09:59:11  <FauxFaux> Define address? Basically, yes, it's 4gb - reserved.
09:59:21  <Celestar> sunno
09:59:23  <Celestar> dunno*
09:59:29  <Celestar> I haven't touched Windows installations in years
09:59:43  <eMJay> winxp can do up to about 3Gb
09:59:53  <eMJay> despite 32bit being technically able to address 4gb
10:00:05  <Celestar> eMJay: well that includes kernel address space
10:00:18  <Celestar> somewhere the Video memory and other crap needs to reside
10:00:26  <FauxFaux> It can do exactly 4gb, but some stuff (like the graphics memory) is mapped into the address space, which meanr you'se likely to only see 3-3.5gb.
10:00:50  <FauxFaux> To be honest, if you're running a 32-bit os you deserve everything you get. :p
10:01:00  <Celestar> s/32-bit os/windows/
10:02:18  <Celestar> /dev/evms/lvm2/td/home 8.1T  7.9T  255G  97% /nfs/home
10:02:25  <Celestar> this just sucks
10:02:53  <blathijs> I seem to be using all of my 4GB mem on my 32 bit linux just fine, it seems:
10:02:54  <blathijs>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
10:02:54  <blathijs> Mem:          3863       3827         35          0        573       2873
10:02:54  <blathijs> -/+ buffers/cache:        380       3483
10:02:56  <Rubidium> Celestar: rm -rf /nfs/home &
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10:03:53  <Celestar> blathijs: using a PAE kernel as well I presume?
10:04:25  * petern is running a 32 bit OS due to have 32 bit CPUs...
10:04:39  * Brianetta too
10:04:40  <Celestar> my laptop is 32 bit as well
10:04:44  <Celestar> but only has 2GB or RAM
10:04:47  <petern> *having
10:04:52  <Celestar> so it's ok
10:04:54  <Brianetta> All my hardware is 32 bit.  Helen has a 64 bit box.
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10:05:05  <Celestar> my laptop == all my hardware
10:05:06  <Celestar> (=
10:05:11  <Brianetta> She's running a 32 bit OS, though
10:05:18  <Brianetta> makes update management and caching easier.
10:05:20  <blathijs> Celestar: If "HIGHMEM4G" is PAE, then yes
10:05:27  <Celestar> blathijs: basically yes afaik
10:05:41  <Celestar> apart from my workstation which is 64-bit, but then again has 16GB RAM
10:05:48  <Celestar> er 8 GB. plus 8 swap :P
10:08:17  <blathijs> sick :-)
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10:09:11  <Celestar> blathijs: if you have to dig through datasets in the terabytes size, this is sickly small, yes (=
10:09:40  <blathijs> hehe
10:09:45  <yorick> Celestar: has the cargodest bug with pressing the routing button while being spectator been fixed?
10:10:08  <yorick> on the smallmap, I mean
10:10:51  <Celestar> yorick: can't remember, will test tomorrow
10:11:11  <dih> 11:57 < eMJay> dih: windows xp? <- why on earth would i do that?
10:11:52  <Celestar> maybe you're a masochist?
10:12:32  <dih> hehe
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10:12:42  <dih> i have an amd 64
10:12:48  <Celestar> my fragmentation of the XFS driver in question is 31% :o
10:12:51  <dih> and debian lenny 32bit
10:13:23  <Celestar> OpenSUSE 10.3, 11.0 and 11.1b3 here
10:13:33  <dih> Celestar: boot up a windows system, install an xfs driver, run defrag :-D
10:13:43  <Celestar> dih: xfs has a defrag tool :D
10:13:47  <HentaiXP> is the skyos sources for openttd in suversion?
10:13:50  <dih> Celestar: i have personal aversion to SuSE
10:14:00  <Celestar> M$ is waaaaay to incompetent to make an XFS driver
10:14:04  <Celestar> apparently
10:14:12  <petern> what is skyos?
10:14:14  <dih> HentaiXP: openttd does not use 'suversion'
10:14:20  <petern> and what is suversion?
10:14:27  <Celestar> dih: the reason being?
10:14:37  <HentaiXP> is the skyos sources for openttd in subversion?
10:14:42  <HentaiXP>
10:14:47  <petern> you said that
10:14:59  <dih> Celestar: more packages, less issues with certain app's
10:15:06  <petern> oh
10:15:07  <petern> well
10:15:18  <dih> + i need to dev for a 32bit conference server :-)
10:15:20  <petern> never heard of skyos, so assume not
10:15:48  <HentaiXP> yes I corrected it.
10:16:26  <TrueBrain> wow, 0.6.3 ebuild was accepted in portage ...
10:16:29  <Celestar> I'm out hunting some food
10:16:34  <Celestar> TrueBrain: it was :D
10:17:47  <dih> yay
10:17:49  <dih> happy days
10:17:54  <dih> enjoy your meal TrueBrain
10:19:43  <scarabeus> TrueBrain: could tell ya but i was not sure that you are around ;]
10:20:34  <TrueBrain> scarabeus: today, I am :)
10:20:39  <scarabeus> :]
10:20:40  <dih> scarabeus: as soon as you see a TrueBrain nick in the names list, you can chat to him :-P
10:20:47  <TrueBrain> too bad the hard mask is not removed ..
10:20:51  <scarabeus> i know i know
10:21:31  <roboboy> hello
10:21:43  <TrueBrain> and dih, it was Celestar who was getting a meal :p
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10:22:45  <scarabeus> TrueBrain: btw i think that for that 7.0 we can prepare suprise in giving them opensourced datafiles
10:22:50  <scarabeus> i think pple will be happy
10:22:54  <dih> Celestar: enjoy your meal :-P
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10:22:59  <Celestar> tx :P
10:23:04  <dih> TrueBrain: yeah - i just like talking with ya
10:23:18  <TrueBrain> scarabeus: that project is not done yet
10:23:19  <dih> scarabeus: it will take YEARS for 7.0
10:23:23  <TrueBrain> dih: I know :)
10:23:28  <dih> :-)
10:23:28  <scarabeus> ok than 7.4
10:23:31  <scarabeus> 6.4
10:23:42  <dih> 6.4 will also take YEARS
10:23:42  <scarabeus> i dont mind what your release is named :]
10:23:47  <scarabeus> ow
10:23:47  <dih> 0.7 ?
10:23:52  <scarabeus> i dont write first zero
10:23:53  <dih> :-D
10:23:59  <scarabeus> and today i even dont write the dot
10:24:00  <dih> well it makes a different
10:24:04  <scarabeus> so suprise suprise
10:24:08  <dih> .7% != 7%
10:24:14  <TrueBrain> dih: you know damn well what he means :)
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10:24:20  <dih> TrueBrain: yep :-D
10:24:36  <dih> it's just been so long since someone last did that
10:24:38  <dih> :-P
10:24:45  * dih pats scarabeus on the head :-D
10:24:48  <scarabeus> :]
10:24:58  <Rubidium> oh, so scarabeus thinks he's very cool for using windows 31 when windows 7 is not released yet
10:25:18  <dih> :-P
10:25:36  <dih> Rubidium: windows 311 even
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10:26:07  <scarabeus> nah i just use vista ;]
10:26:12  <scarabeus> and turn aero on
10:26:13  <scarabeus> :D
10:26:45  <dih> YUCK
10:27:37  <scarabeus> actualy i kinda like that system, because i was forced to rewrite some tools which were only for windows so i can use them on linux
10:27:38  <scarabeus> :D
10:30:43  <Celestar> life. sucks.
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10:34:08  <scarabeus> i will try to convince robat if he would take that mask away or limit it
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10:35:53  <scarabeus> but i am not sure what time it is now in canada... :]
10:36:04  <Rubidium> HentaiXP: I can't even find a skyos port of openttd, only uncited openttd supports skyos stuff
10:36:21  <HentaiXP> such I thought so Rubidium thank you
10:36:48  <TrueBrain> scarabeus: it would benice if it would be removed :) Oh well .. time will remove it anyway, I guess :)
10:37:12  <scarabeus> actualy on monday i will get the rights to do it myself i guess
10:37:17  <scarabeus> but i am lazy to wait
10:37:27  <TrueBrain> hehe
10:37:29  <TrueBrain> aren't we all ;)
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10:41:27  <yorick> hmm, the packet header is little endian?
10:42:40  <yorick> 18 00 20 <-- that's size 24, packet #32, right?
10:42:42  <blathijs> Isn't everything just in network-order (BE IIRC)
10:42:53  <yorick> blathijs: see ^
10:43:13  <blathijs> yorick: I think you're looking at big-endian there
10:43:22  <blathijs> not sure, though
10:43:33  <yorick> 18 00 in big-endian makes 24?
10:44:03  <petern> little endian
10:44:46  <petern> a packet size of 9216 bytes makes no sense
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10:45:02  <SpComb> yes it does!
10:45:14  <yorick> SpComb: no it doesn't
10:45:20  * petern fragments SpComb
10:45:52  <yorick> simply because 24 bytes later, there's another perfectly valid packet
10:46:36  <SpComb> petern: length headers in UDP packets don't make any sense
10:46:49  <yorick> ^^
10:47:03  <SpComb> UDP packets already have a defined length
10:47:07  <TrueBrain> blathijs: OpenTTD is (I know, stupid), LE in its network protocol (independant of host endian)
10:47:20  <blathijs> yorick: This does seem to be little-endian indeed, I was confused
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10:47:41  <blathijs> TrueBrain: Interesting :-)
10:47:49  <yorick> TrueBrain: "So the byte order is ALWAYS 1 2 3 4" <-- doesn't that mean big-endian?
10:48:07  <blathijs> TrueBrain: That's probably because all the endian stuff was introduced when we had only little-endian support
10:48:09  <TrueBrain> blathijs: more a design error when I was writing that .. I never considered using network-endian :p
10:48:32  <TrueBrain> void Packet::Send_uint32(uint32 data)
10:48:36  <TrueBrain> {
10:48:40  <TrueBrain>         assert(this->size < sizeof(this->buffer) - sizeof(data));
10:48:44  <TrueBrain>         this->buffer[this->size++] = GB(data,  0, 8);
10:48:44  <TrueBrain>         this->buffer[this->size++] = GB(data,  8, 8);
10:48:44  <TrueBrain>         this->buffer[this->size++] = GB(data, 16, 8);
10:48:44  <TrueBrain>         this->buffer[this->size++] = GB(data, 24, 8);
10:48:45  <TrueBrain> yorick: you do the math
10:49:05  <TrueBrain> blathijs: no, BE/LE handling was there even before I started working on OpenTTD
10:49:11  <TrueBrain> so that makes .. 0.3.3 or something?
10:49:31  <blathijs> TrueBrain: But I guess we were already supporting OSX then?
10:49:32  <yorick> oh, you name the bytes from right-to-left
10:50:55  <blathijs> TrueBrain: I just meant that originally there was only little-endian support, so the network protocol was naturally little-endian. And you probably took that over (What's the proper english translation for that?)
10:51:27  <yorick> borrowed?
10:51:31  <SpComb> #define GB
10:51:49  <TrueBrain> blathijs: not really ;) There was both LE and BE, but ingame most things are converted to LE .. the reason I took LE, was because I wasn't thinking, and just wrote those Send_uint32 in the first way I came across :)
10:51:53  <blathijs> GetBit(value, start_bit, end_bit)
10:52:01  <blathijs> TrueBrain: :-)
10:52:06  <TrueBrain> which happens to be i & 0xFF, (i >> 8) & 0xFF, ...
10:52:20  <TrueBrain> there wasn't really any reason for it .. ;)
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10:54:12  <blathijs> It should be easy to switch to BE, but it really doesn't matter at all :-)
10:54:36  <TrueBrain> nobody cares, I guess :)
10:54:49  <yorick> I do...
10:54:52  <TrueBrain> I know I don't :)
10:55:04  <TrueBrain> jus tpeople like yorick get confused .. and seem not to be able to think
10:55:33  <yorick> your explanation of the endianness on the wiki is confusing and lacks an example
10:55:39  * yorick goes writing example
10:55:59  <TrueBrain> then don't use the wiki :)
10:57:54  <roboboy> gnight
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10:58:06  <yorick> good morning
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11:05:00  <petern> endianness is a pretty simple concept
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11:17:38  <FloSoft> hi, how can i enable to use stations of other companys?
11:18:17  <ln> you can't, not with the official version.
11:18:26  <FloSoft> hmm
11:18:42  <FloSoft> why not? ;)
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11:20:41  <ln> because.
11:21:29  *** Mortal [~mortal@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
11:22:06  <dih> FloSoft: search the forums for Infrastructure Sharing
11:22:09  <dih> it's a patch
11:22:22  <dih> the server and all connecting clients must use this build
11:22:31  <dih> else it will not work ;-)
11:23:26  <FloSoft> ah okay
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13:12:56  <Belugas> blup
13:13:23  <TrueBrain> you are a fish?
13:13:30  <Belugas> no
13:13:33  <Belugas> a dolphin
13:13:39  <TrueBrain> sad
13:13:51  <TrueBrain> oeh
13:13:53  <Belugas> a fish doe snot produce bubbles, you FalseBrain!
13:13:54  <TrueBrain> I like dolphins
13:14:12  <Celestar> FalseBrain
13:14:27  <TrueBrain> :)
13:14:40  * Belugas hugs TrueBrain
13:14:46  <Belugas> Mida2008
13:14:48  * TrueBrain hugs Belugas
13:15:04  <Belugas> mmh
13:15:12  <TrueBrain> wrong window
13:15:17  <Belugas> yup
13:15:33  <TrueBrain> the sad thing is .. not your first time ;)
13:16:07  <Belugas> and unless i quit IRC, it will happen again...
13:16:10  <Belugas> sign that i
13:16:14  * Brianetta tries to figure out which person was replaced by a PyBorg
13:16:16  <Belugas> m devoted to the casue!
13:16:26  <Brianetta> I suspect that it's the pair of you
13:16:27  <Belugas> cause
13:18:06  <TrueBrain> Brianetta: the fact you are wondering about it, makes us pass the tuning test
13:18:07  <TrueBrain> whoho!
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13:19:03  <Brianetta> TrueBrain: Not quite.  The fact that I am wondering about it means that you are *sitting* a Turing test.
13:19:23  <Brianetta> No pressure.
13:19:25  <TrueBrain> fair enough
13:19:27  <TrueBrain> let me know when you know
13:19:40  <Brianetta> Belugas is the machine.
13:19:45  <TrueBrain> auch
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13:24:28  <Belugas> me? a machine?
13:24:34  <Belugas> strange...
13:25:58  <Brianetta> Well, in a properly set up Turing test, one of the participants must be machine.  It's the machine that's being tested.
13:26:24  <Brianetta> If you're not the machine, Belugas, then TrueBrain passed the Turing test.  If you are, then you failed it.
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13:26:45  <yorick> so a properly set up TUring test never fails?
13:27:00  <Brianetta> yorick: Never fails to what?
13:27:15  <yorick> the subject is always a machine
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13:27:41  <Brianetta> yorick: The Turing test is a test intended for a machine, yes.
13:27:56  <Brianetta> Do you know how the test is applied?
13:28:43  <yorick> but isn't the whole point of the tast that you want to know whether the subject is a machine?
13:28:47  <Brianetta> No.
13:29:19  <Brianetta> The whole point of the Turing test is to measure whether or not an AI is deemed intelligent.
13:29:47  <Brianetta> The test consists of a number of conversations.
13:30:06  <Brianetta> Participants converse with a machine and a human, via similar means (usually text based).
13:30:22  <Brianetta> The human at the other end converses back, and the machine does likewise.
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13:30:49  <Brianetta> If 30% or more of the participants cannot successfully say which of the conversations was with a machine, then the machine has passed the Turing test.
13:31:08  <yorick> oh, that kind of Turingtest
13:31:14  <Brianetta> There is only one kind.
13:31:19  <Brianetta> Alan Turing devised it.
13:31:38  <Brianetta> That's why it bears his name.
13:31:43  <Brianetta> Other tests aren't the Turing test.
13:32:24  <yorick> reverse Turing test
13:32:52  <Brianetta> You're going to have to be much more specific.
13:33:35  *** apo_ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:33:40  <yorick>
13:33:52  <Brianetta> Yes.
13:33:54  <Brianetta> "The term reverse Turing test has no single clear definition"
13:33:58  <Brianetta> You're going to have to be much more specific.
13:34:48  <TrueBrain> Brianetta: so I passed the turing test .. YEAH!
13:34:51  * TrueBrain celebrates
13:34:56  <TrueBrain> (I have proof Belugas is not a bot ;))
13:35:11  <Brianetta> TrueBrain: This does mean that you were the computer, though (:
13:35:32  <TrueBrain> yup
13:36:52  <yorick> Brianetta: machine testing humans
13:37:04  <yorick> to see if they're human
13:37:11  <Brianetta> Captchas etc?
13:37:15  <Brianetta> Not a Turing test.
13:37:23  <Brianetta> Just using the name.
13:37:37  <TrueBrain> not even remotely :)
13:37:45  <Brianetta> Poor Alan Turing.  He was too gay to get recognition while he was alive.
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13:38:22  <petern> one of my colleagues met alan turing, back in the 80s
13:38:54  <Brianetta> petern: He died in the 50s
13:38:56  <petern> quite
13:39:13  <yorick> Brainetta: so did his colleagues?
13:39:16  * Brianetta tries to parse what petern said in a different way
13:39:17  <Doorslammer> Ah, the real Dr Who
13:39:41  <petern> this colleague knows jack shit and tries to blag his way through
13:39:44  <Brianetta> yorick: You're making less sense than babyottd
13:39:53  <Brianetta> petern: Ah (:
13:39:58  <TrueBrain> Brianetta: wie immer
13:39:59  <petern> obviously when i pointed out he was dead then, he stumbled a bit...
13:40:55  <Brianetta> TrueBrain: doch (:
13:44:13  <Belugas> the test operator failed wonderfully since he did not understood that both entities were real humans
13:44:17  <Belugas> crap :P
13:45:13  <Gekz> did not understand*
13:45:23  <Gekz> bad past tense user
13:45:24  <Gekz> :P
13:45:32  * Celestar yawns
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13:48:41  <Belugas> i'm getting tense...
13:49:31  <Gekz> lol.
13:49:34  <Gekz> punny
13:50:47  * Celestar doesn't understand what's going on
13:53:09  * Belugas does not either
13:53:39  <yorick> he did not understood --> he did not understand ;)
13:53:55  <TrueBrain> @kban yorick 60 stop doing that, it is annoying
13:53:56  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
13:53:56  *** yorick was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [stop doing that, it is annoying]
13:54:03  <TrueBrain> I wonder if he would ever understand
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13:54:55  <TrueBrain> I guess I should kick Gekz too, but I like Gekz :p
13:54:56  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
13:54:56  <TrueBrain> (hehe)
13:55:02  <Gekz> oi
13:55:05  <Gekz> I was doing you a favour
13:55:11  <Gekz> extending your skill in English
13:55:13  <Gekz> not being a wanker.
13:55:23  <TrueBrain> Gekz: well, currently in my opinion you are a wanker :)
13:55:29  <Gekz> I like it when people correct my French or German
13:55:29  <TrueBrain> correcting, okay .. doing it all the time: annoying
13:55:36  <TrueBrain> there is a balance :)
13:55:49  <Gekz> TrueBrain: I could have corrected you before but did not
13:56:00  <Gekz> simply because I know that _you_ dont care.
13:56:12  <TrueBrain> keep it that way ;)
13:56:20  <Gekz> no.
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13:56:24  <TrueBrain> (really, this channel is getting a tiny bit out of control regarding 'correcting' people :))
13:56:30  <yorick> I was doing you a favour
13:56:31  <yorick>  extending your skill in English
13:56:42  <Belugas> it's ok, i'm not just n a good mood due to this insanity called work@work
13:56:58  * TrueBrain gives Belugas coffee :)
13:57:27  <Gekz> yorick: ban evading much?
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14:00:05  <yorick> oh, I didn't see gekz
14:00:56  <Gekz> now that was a lie.
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14:19:09  <Foto2> Can anyone pleas help me whit the "Multiplayer" in OPEN TTD 0.6.3 ?
14:19:39  <TrueBrain> ask the question, and you will know soon enough :)
14:19:51  <Foto2> okay
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14:20:37  <Foto2> when i go on myltiplayer and perss "Find Server" (connect) then i go off the internet
14:20:44  <Foto2> multiplayer*
14:21:18  <Foto2> why ?
14:21:31  <TrueBrain> I don't understand the question, so I can't really help you (sorry)
14:21:38  <Foto2> hmm
14:21:52  <Foto2> in OPEN TTD 0.6.3
14:21:54  <yorick> I think he wants to say pressing "Find Server" makes it go to the main menu
14:22:44  <Foto2> no
14:23:14  <Foto2> that get a much IP up and no servers the IP-servers is Offline
14:23:23  <Foto2> but ...
14:23:53  <yorick> so it does not display any info about the servers
14:23:54  <Foto2> When i pressing "Find Server" (connect) there not connect
14:23:59  <Foto2> ....
14:24:06  <Foto2> you dont understand i think
14:24:14  <yorick> what do you mean with "Find Server" (connect)
14:24:17  <TrueBrain> nope, sorry ...
14:24:22  <TrueBrain> make a screenshot or something?
14:24:35  <Foto2> i can try
14:25:18  <dih> Foto: does the drop-down say Lan or Internet?
14:25:19  <Foto2> but my internet is go off
14:25:27  <Foto2> Internet
14:25:29  <dih> are you on a wireless?
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14:25:36  <Foto2> not whit my friends but all other
14:25:41  <Foto2> no LAN
14:25:44  <Foto2> internet
14:26:05  <yorick> huh?
14:26:19  <yorick> what is the actual problem?
14:26:22  <dih> do you have a network cable leading to your computer (YES/NO)
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14:32:50  <Foto2^> Hey ! who has take my nick ?
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14:33:44  <yorick> Foto2^: you have
14:33:48  <yorick> ping timeout
14:33:49  *** Foto2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 484 seconds]
14:34:43  <Foto2^> thx ...
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14:36:11  <Foto2> that fail ...
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14:39:52  <yorick> so you lose connection?
14:40:59  <yorick> do you have a network cable leading to your computer (YES/NO)?
14:43:09  <Belugas> OUI
14:43:19  <Belugas> AND YOU?
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15:02:01  <Foto2> thats not LAN
15:02:20  <Foto2> i using a router
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15:05:27  <yorick> Foto2: what?
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15:18:41  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I see OpenTTD in the official gentoo portage :)
15:22:32  <Foto2> Anyway forget thats -_-
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15:23:09  <Foto2> Bye ...
15:23:22  *** Foto2 [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
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15:44:05  <Belugas> fr fr fr freezing in h h h here
15:44:55  * yorick gives coffee to belugas
15:45:17  * Belugas pats yorick on the head
15:45:24  <Belugas> good boy, good boy
15:45:50  * yorick moves whale up developer ranking list
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15:47:49  <Belugas> it was -1 Celcius this morning.  Looks like the cold is now starting to enter the room
15:47:52  <Belugas> joy :(
15:48:15  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: yup! Now the hard mask ..
15:50:40  <Belugas> mask?
15:50:44  <Belugas> part you meant?
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16:08:05  <Belugas> so... forums reading time
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16:30:17  <Belugas> boring forums users
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16:42:29  <TrueBrain> I haven't read the forum in ages
16:42:31  <TrueBrain> nothing useful there
16:43:03  <TrueBrain> and I really meant 'mask' .. Gentoo has a so called 'hard mask' on OpenTTd, which makes it difficult to get OpentTD installed on Gentoo
16:43:47  <Belugas> ha
16:43:48  <Belugas> ok
16:44:09  <Belugas> yeah, lately, forums are one big plate of emptiness
16:44:24  <Belugas> there are a few good stuff going in, like the graphics efforts
16:44:34  <Belugas> but new users are so... uyrk
16:44:36  <Belugas> yurk
16:44:52  <Belugas> and fucking clueless...
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17:42:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14523 /trunk/src/lang/ (italian.txt unfinished/indonesian.txt unfinished/persian.txt):
17:42:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-10-23 17:42:35
17:42:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: indonesian - 668 fixed by dnaftali (668)
17:42:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: italian - 6 changed by lorenzodv (6)
17:42:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: persian - 88 fixed by ali sattari (88)
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18:16:16  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: is it possible to get rid of that "- games-simulation/openttd-0.6.3 (masked by: EAPI 2)" message?
18:17:27  *** welshdragon [~vista@adsl-83-100-138-245.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
18:17:29  <SmatZ> apart from updating portage ;)
18:17:42  <welshdragon> sorry, i wasn't calling you lot wankers
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18:17:54  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: as I said, openttd is still hard masked
18:18:02  <welshdragon> i forgot to /part before i /quit
18:18:33  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: but comment out the line in /usr/portage/profiles/package.mask, or add an entry in your /etc/profile/package.unmask
18:19:14  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I have edited package.unmask just after it was masked :) now I am trying an x86 system :)
18:19:52  <SmatZ> I just wonder if it really needs EAPI 2
18:20:13  <TrueBrain> I have no idea what EAPI is :)
18:20:32  <TrueBrain> in my ebuilds I have EAPI="1"
18:20:51  <TrueBrain> the one in portage indeed is EAPI 2
18:21:23  <SmatZ> ah ok :)
18:22:34  <TrueBrain> no idea why
18:22:43  <TrueBrain> I see no reason ..
18:22:51  <Belugas> mmh...  i miss the global replace of a string, in MSVC :(
18:22:57  <Belugas> good tools in there
18:23:17  <Belugas> delphi 6  can only do it one file at a time
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18:48:35  <planetmaker> !port
18:48:40  <planetmaker> !ports
18:49:14  <Belugas> @ports
18:49:14  <DorpsGek> Belugas: OpenTTD uses TCP and UDP port 3979 for server <-> client communication and UDP port 3978 for masterserver (advertise) communication (outbound)
18:49:16  <Belugas> please
18:51:34  <yorick> you forgot?
18:52:57  <Brianetta> @botsnack
18:53:05  <Brianetta> clearly not one of them bots
18:54:13  <planetmaker> thx Belugas :)
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18:54:58  <planetmaker> I could swear that it once was accessible via !... -alas :)
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18:56:12  <Belugas> hint : DorpsGek can answer those questions in PM
18:56:54  <Belugas> which would make it possible that you can forgive something as primal as the syntax or the data you are searcing for ;)
18:57:16  <planetmaker> :)
18:57:20  <frosch123> though I guess !password only works when pming glx :)
18:57:21  <Belugas> and nobody would be witness of your ... incapacity
18:57:40  <planetmaker> that's transfering knowledge from the public server bot to this bot. Not capable of that :P
18:58:07  <planetmaker> hehe :)
18:58:14  <Belugas> public server bot?
18:58:16  <Belugas> what's that?
18:58:29  <planetmaker> we can talk to our public server via IRC, too.
18:58:38  <planetmaker> it's a tcl script which runs it.
18:59:11  <planetmaker> e.g. we can ask it privately for the current password :)
18:59:20  <planetmaker> or client list or alike
18:59:29  <Belugas> ho... on coop irc...
18:59:33  <planetmaker> or publicly :P
18:59:39  <planetmaker> yes
19:00:02  <planetmaker> I'm not going to try !password here again too soon :)
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19:11:52  <Eddi|zuHause> be glad, i get killed without !password
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19:30:50  <planetmaker> :P
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19:47:26  <ben_goodger> that's better
19:47:38  <ben_goodger> good evening, gentlemen [and possible ladies], and happy mole day
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19:56:49  <Belugas> hello ben
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20:10:07  <petern> did you mean possibly ladies?
20:10:15  <petern> possible ladies might be something else... :)
20:12:10  <ben_goodger> eh, this is true
20:18:10  <ln> why is the theme song for House M.D. different in europe?
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20:20:19  <petern> licensing usually
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20:22:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i know that they replaced the prison break theme in germany for marketing purposes
20:22:55  <ln> in the US and A it is Massive Attack's Mezzanine (well, parts of it), and something specifically composed for House in europe.
20:23:58  <Belugas> they did dare ?
20:24:02  <Belugas> damned
20:24:13  <Belugas> not going to watch the show anymore
20:24:41  <Sacro> it is Teardrop isn't it?
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20:25:07  <ln> Sacro: er, yes, that's true.  mezzanine was the name of the album it is on.
20:25:45  <Belugas> Due to rights and licensing issues, "Teardrop" cannot be used in some countries, so "House End Credits" replaces "Teardrop" as the opening theme in those countries.
20:25:47  <Belugas> dear wiki
20:27:59  <ln> great
20:28:22  <Tefad> weird
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20:47:02  <ln> sarcoidosis
20:49:06  <Belugas> Sarkosis
20:49:25  <TrueBrain> Pompei
20:49:34  <Belugas> Lalalei
20:53:13  <Sacro> lupus?
20:53:39  <glx> usually it's not that
20:54:01  <Sacro> could be an 80 year old woman with syphillis
20:54:16  <ln> glx: let's take an MRI to confirm that
20:54:56  <TrueBrain> one can always hope
20:55:46  <Belugas> nope cope toad told fold cold
20:57:54  <ln> imdb or wiki said that hugh laurie was douglas adams's choice for the role of arthur dent.
21:00:01  <Belugas> whhoo... i feel so good to know that
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21:02:56  <Belugas> allez hop, j'en ai marre, m'en retourne chez nous
21:02:58  <Belugas> bywe
21:03:03  <Belugas> bye
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21:05:53  <ln> a standard Bjarni
21:06:32  <Prof_Frink> What standard? BS? ISO? DIN?
21:10:07  <Bjarni> I'm not following a standard
21:10:09  <Bjarni> I'm unique
21:10:13  <Bjarni> just like everybody else
21:10:52  <TrueBrain> are you sure about that?
21:12:25  <Bjarni> why shouldn't I be?
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21:14:16  <Prof_Frink> We are all individuals!
21:14:26  <TrueBrain> I don't agree on that
21:14:34  <TrueBrain> I feel more individual than you do
21:14:59  <Prof_Frink> Lies. You don't exist.
21:15:01  <Progman> Bjarni:
21:15:11  <TrueBrain> Can you proof that?
21:15:20  <SmatZ> hehe
21:15:37  <TrueBrain> nice Progman :)
21:15:41  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Yes.
21:15:57  <Prof_Frink> I exist. You are not me. Therefore you don't exist.
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21:16:36  <TrueBrain> I agree
21:18:42  <TrueBrain> my sister has a baby girl of 1 years old .. what hit me .. we try to teach a bot to learn to speak in 1 or 2 hours, where it takes a baby over a year to do so ..
21:18:48  <TrueBrain> (sorry, random thought ;))
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21:21:31  <Bjarni> TrueBrain: it's not that random
21:21:55  <Bjarni> besides they can't talk before the throat is developed enough to actually produce the sounds
21:22:03  <ln> still we're not trying to teach dutch to the bot.
21:22:07  <TrueBrain> the thought itself was, and it is not your position to tell me it is not
21:22:09  <Bjarni> meaning they have to be usually 12-16 months before they can talk
21:22:50  <Bjarni> ln: that was actually an interesting idea. Why should we only teach it English?
21:23:15  <ln> Bjarni: because belugas gets confused from non-english.
21:23:26  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: because it cannot distinguish between the two, and will end up speaking some monstrous language of its own invention
21:23:33  <ben_goodger> like Americans
21:23:38  <Prof_Frink> ben_goodger: Welsh?
21:23:49  <ben_goodger> possibly
21:23:53  <ben_goodger> hm
21:24:22  <Bjarni> then we will get this fine bot telling us stuff in Dutchrish
21:24:27  <ben_goodger> "welsh and cornish are the first languages designed specifically to make their speakers different from english speakers. this is worryingly attention-seeking behaviour."
21:24:36  <TrueBrain> babyottd will never make sense, so who cares about which language ;) (it simply isn't programmed to reply in context, it just .. replies :p)
21:24:38  <ben_goodger> ~ discuss
21:25:29  <Prof_Frink> Cornwall has cliffs, Wales has cliffs and crags. To hell with the people.
21:25:31  <Eddi|zuHause> i would be a terrible teacher at dutch ;)
21:26:09  <TrueBrain> most likely as terrible as I would be teaching german :)
21:27:02  <ben_goodger> Prof_Frink: I would like to point out that we also have defectant-covered beaches and a lot of urban deprivation
21:27:11  <Bjarni> hmm... what's cornish like?
21:27:21  <Bjarni> it sounds somewhat corny :P
21:27:32  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: diphthong-covered
21:27:32  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: It's pasty.
21:27:53  <ben_goodger> although it is useful for place names
21:28:19  <ben_goodger> for instance, Saint Austell becomes Sen Ostell, which is very handy because everyone calls it "sunt ostall" or "snozzle"
21:28:40  <Bjarni> :)
21:29:35  <TrueBrain> hmm .. for any bot to reply in context, it also needs to have emotions, else it will be very .. stupid
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21:30:29  <Bjarni> a guy told me today that he once spoke with some people from England. He didn't understand them and they switched dialect to something you would expect to hear from the London area. I asked him to quote how they spoke as first
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21:30:39  <Bjarni> and I said "sounds like south west England"
21:30:44  <Bjarni> now I guess I was right :)
21:31:09  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: yes, the local dialect is a sinus-modulated "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr"
21:31:13  <Bjarni> however getting an imitation from a guy, who failed to understand it isn't that precise :P
21:31:16  <ln> it's nearly impossible to understand what the hell people in London are saying.
21:31:37  <Prof_Frink> Ooo arr
21:32:09  <Bjarni> I remember when my mom returned from London. She said that it took them a while to figure out what the ticket salesman in the busses said
21:32:12  <Eddi|zuHause> it's called "OOo"
21:32:16  <Bjarni> it sounded like "tikofa"
21:32:36  <Bjarni> that's "tik-o-fa"
21:32:57  <Bjarni> do you have a clue to what they said? :)
21:33:13  <ben_goodger> none
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21:33:26  <Bjarni> hehe
21:33:32  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Idling speed.
21:33:38  <Bjarni> "ticket or face"
21:33:41  <ben_goodger> ah
21:34:03  <ln> whose face?
21:34:07  <Bjarni> your own
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21:34:14  <Bjarni> on your card that lasts for a month
21:34:19  <ben_goodger> there's some sort of automated card system...
21:34:33  <ben_goodger> I haven't had the misfortune to spend any time in london
21:35:11  <Bjarni> I was once invited to London. I had to turn down the offer because I had an exam :/
21:35:22  <ben_goodger> it's nothing particularly special
21:35:31  <Prof_Frink> Öyster.
21:35:41  <ln> Bjarni: bad excuse
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21:35:43  <ben_goodger> Prof_Frink: that's only for the tube, surely
21:35:45  <ben_goodger> the nice bits are pretty much like the rest of the UK
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21:35:51  <ben_goodger> the rest of it is very unpleasant
21:35:56  <Prof_Frink> ben_goodger: Nope, all tfl stuff
21:36:02  <Eddi|zuHause> whoever can receive it, do not turn on the channel "RTL II" right now
21:36:07  <Bjarni> then the whole cartoon thing exploded and angry Muslims walked the streets of London and requested that all Danes should die
21:36:21  <ben_goodger> what on earth is RTL?
21:36:28  <Bjarni> and that happened during that week where we had planned to go to London
21:36:29  <Prof_Frink> Right-To-Left
21:36:43  <Chrill> to me, RTL is a German TV channel
21:36:46  <ln> ben_goodger: Radio Television Luxemburg
21:36:50  <Bjarni> somehow I'm happy that I wasn't in London at the time
21:36:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "Radio Television Luxemburg"
21:37:07  <glx> I only have RTL9
21:37:08  <Chrill> German TV
21:37:32  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: I'm sure that was limited to only a few isolated streets of fascist scum-buckets^W^W^Wprotestors
21:37:36  <Eddi|zuHause> they were interviewing a guy who is "in love" with a locomotive
21:37:51  <ln> Bjarni: well no one insists you to wear danish flag while abroad?
21:38:14  <Bjarni> isn't that mandatory?
21:38:34  <Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause> they were interviewing a guy who is "in love" with a locomotive <-- who did? and which locomotive?
21:38:37  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: yes, we have national stereotypes enforced by passport control
21:39:03  <ln> <@Bjarni>  <Eddi|zuHause> they were interviewing a guy who is "in love" with a locomotive <-- who did? and which locomotive?   <--- you're afraid it's cheating on you?
21:39:12  <Bjarni> lol
21:39:23  <Bjarni> no
21:39:30  <Bjarni> it's faithful
21:39:53  <ben_goodger> americans have to be over 100 kilograms to enter, and are obliged to spend all their time wandering between tourist traps
21:40:43  <Bjarni> and get upset that they can't use US dollars everywhere
21:40:52  <ln> what's a good place to visit in britain, if london has already been seen twice?  and don't tell me "france".
21:40:53  <Bjarni> since they accept them in other 3rd world countries
21:41:04  <Bjarni> ln: York
21:41:05  <Prof_Frink> ln: Skye.
21:41:33  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: what's interesting on the isle of Skye?
21:41:41  <ben_goodger> ln: canterbury, exeter, cambridge
21:41:51  <Bjarni> besides the Highland railroad lines
21:41:58  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Big, pointy mountains.
21:42:13  <Bjarni> isn't that the same as Scotland?
21:42:24  <Bjarni> or a brothel :P
21:42:24  <ben_goodger> er...
21:42:34  <Eddi|zuHause> you have never seen a real mountain in your life :p
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21:42:48  <Prof_Frink> Yeah, but the rest of Scotland doesn't have a peak called the "Inaccessible Pinnacle".
21:42:57  <Bjarni> I have driven all the way around Iceland
21:43:04  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Pfft.
21:43:10  <ben_goodger> blast you!
21:43:11  <Bjarni> I have seen a thing or two about mountains
21:43:13  <ln> Bjarni: what, you've been to iceland?
21:43:23  <Prof_Frink> I've wheeled a trolley all the way around iceland.
21:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> have you bought it?
21:43:27  <ben_goodger> it'll be three more years before I can get a foreign hire car
21:43:33  <Bjarni> no, I drove around Iceland, but I have never been there
21:43:35  <Bjarni> :P
21:43:39  <Bjarni> what do you think :)
21:43:55  <ln> Bjarni: google earth?
21:43:59  <Bjarni> lol
21:44:13  <ln> ben_goodger: why's that?
21:44:26  <Eddi|zuHause> all i ever saw of iceland was the airport when switching planes
21:44:47  <Bjarni> the airport is placed in the most boring part of Iceland
21:44:47  <Bjarni> [23:43:33]
21:44:52  <Bjarni> huh
21:44:53  <ben_goodger> minimum age is 21, at least for spain, which is the only country I've ever actually been to that involved hiring a car
21:44:58  <Bjarni> where did the 2nd line come from?
21:45:17  <Eddi|zuHause> frankfurt-new york and baltimore-frankfurt via iceland
21:45:24  <Bjarni> it's a timestamp... and it's even wrong
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21:45:35  <Bjarni> not to mention.... I didn't write it
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21:45:54  <Bjarni> I don't know about hiring cars in Iceland
21:46:01  <Bjarni> I used connections to borrow one
21:46:02  <Eddi|zuHause> it was your keylogger who is getting sentient
21:46:15  <ben_goodger> ah...
21:46:32  <Bjarni> but I have seen better cars
21:46:39  <Bjarni> 3rd gear was broken >_<
21:46:42  <ben_goodger> what was it?
21:46:46  <ln> ben_goodger: are you saying you are 17 or something?
21:47:15  <ben_goodger> ln: eighteen...and a month....and nine days...and 22 hours...ish
21:47:25  <Bjarni> the car itself was a regular car... it was just that 3rd gear was broken and you needed it all the time for the hills
21:47:34  <ben_goodger> ah
21:47:41  <ben_goodger> how can third gear be broken?
21:47:47  <ben_goodger> that's hugely confusing
21:47:49  <ln> hmm, would have expected a bit more based on what you've spoken.
21:48:09  <Bjarni> the lock that prevents it from going from 3rd gear to neutral was broken
21:48:27  <ben_goodger> the clutch? :P
21:48:28  <Bjarni> meaning you could get it in 3rd gear, but if you let go of the gear handle, it slipped into neutral
21:48:39  <Bjarni> not the clutch :P
21:48:43  <ben_goodger> ah, I see
21:48:45  <Bjarni> the other gears worked just fine
21:48:55  <ben_goodger> I'd hold it into third then, my friend
21:49:09  <Bjarni> that didn't really work well either
21:49:11  <ben_goodger> I keep my left hand on the stick all the time anyway
21:49:31  <Bjarni> the wheel is in the left side in Iceland since they drive on the right side
21:49:40  <Prof_Frink> wrong side.
21:49:58  <ben_goodger> Prof_Frink: I remind you that we English drive on the left
21:50:05  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: I know...
21:50:10  <Prof_Frink> Yes.
21:50:31  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni suggested that having the wheel on the left was somehow right.
21:50:44  <ben_goodger> well, it makes more sense, to be honest
21:50:54  <ben_goodger> decreases the cost of making the car for this market.
21:51:21  <Prof_Frink> Not if you buy a japanese car.
21:51:29  <ben_goodger> true.
21:51:43  <Bjarni> having the wheel in the left side means that you use your right hand to change gear
21:51:47  <ben_goodger> but at the moment, german manufacturers (and american ones, not that it matters) have to build separate machines to produce horizontally flipped components
21:51:54  <Bjarni> and most people prefer to use the right hand
21:52:23  <Bjarni> I have actually tried to drive a Japanese car
21:52:34  <Bjarni> with the wheel in the right side
21:52:36  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Yes, but changing gear doesn't require much dexterity
21:52:48  <Bjarni> that was in Iceland too.... go figure :P
21:52:51  <ben_goodger> ah
21:52:53  <Prof_Frink> Grab-pull or grab-push
21:53:16  <ben_goodger> unless you have a semi-auto :P
21:53:18  <glx> I'm used to drive with left arm only
21:53:20  <ben_goodger> flappy paddle frw
21:53:41  <Bjarni> modern transmissions doesn't require much dexterity or force
21:53:48  <Bjarni> old transmissions on the other hand....
21:54:09  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: So you can use them left-handed, keeping fine control over steering
21:54:12  <Bjarni> <glx> I'm used to drive with left arm only <-- you know that's not only illegal, it's also dangerous
21:54:20  <glx> why?
21:54:30  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Pfft, I drive with no hands at times
21:54:37  <SpComb> Logs:
21:54:37  <Born_Acorn> !logs
21:54:41  <ln> is the order of pedals mirrored in great britainish cars?
21:54:46  <ben_goodger> ln: nope
21:54:52  <ben_goodger> clutch, brake, accelerator
21:55:00  <Bjarni> no, but the turn signal and the vipers are
21:55:07  <Prof_Frink> vipers?
21:55:13  <Prof_Frink> Snakes In A Car!
21:55:18  <Bjarni> lol
21:55:31  <Bjarni> you know what I mean :P
21:55:32  <ben_goodger> Bjarni: actually they're not. the stalks are dependent on the manufacturing country
21:55:49  <ben_goodger> my nissan has the indicator on the left, my mother's kia has the indicator on the right
21:55:50  <Bjarni> ok, they were in the Japanese car
21:56:09  <ben_goodger> well, the japanese are clearly very clever
21:56:12  <planetmaker> Hm. Assume I have a conditional order: if (...) goto order #n
21:56:20  <planetmaker> is there a way to change n to m?
21:56:22  <Bjarni> which was a Toyota. They aren't mirrored in the Toyotas I have seen in Denmark
21:56:32  <Prof_Frink> indicators right on every car I've driven
21:56:37  <ben_goodger> hmm
21:56:49  <Prof_Frink> ...No.
21:56:49  <Bjarni> the turn indicator is left on all cars in Denmark
21:56:52  <Prof_Frink> Left.
21:57:11  <ben_goodger> heh
21:57:12  <glx> is there a danish manufacturer?
21:57:18  <ben_goodger> glx: don't be silly
21:57:18  <Bjarni> not anymore
21:57:33  <Bjarni> we used to produce different brands of cars
21:57:35  <Prof_Frink> glx: Yes, but they manufacture bacons.
21:58:21  <Bjarni> but either they went out of money and stopped or (in one case) ran out of money and was sold to a German guy, who moved everything to Germany
21:58:30  <Bjarni> we used to make quite good electric cars
21:58:41  <ben_goodger> the only manufacturers left in europe are vw, peugeot, renault, fiat, mercedes and bmw
21:58:47  <ben_goodger> to my knowledge...
21:59:26  <glx> there's also dacia
22:00:05  <ben_goodger> that's owned by renault
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22:00:16  <Bjarni> <-- we used to make those
22:00:26  <ln> ben_goodger: Aston Martin?
22:00:27  <ben_goodger> heheh
22:00:36  <ben_goodger> ln: subsidiary
22:00:36  <Bjarni> and now that German buyer is producing an improved version
22:00:36  <glx> and you call that a car?
22:00:40  <ben_goodger> I think...
22:00:45  <Bjarni> it's an electric car
22:00:58  <Bjarni> it's bigger than it looks and really cheap to operate
22:00:58  <ben_goodger> oh, no, it's independent
22:01:05  <ben_goodger> add aston martin to my above list.
22:01:33  <Bjarni> we made "real" cars too, but I forgot the name and google failed to find "the car that I forgot the name of"
22:01:36  <Prof_Frink> ben_goodger: ariel? noble?
22:01:53  * Prof_Frink saw two Atoms on the A34 last weekend
22:02:19  <Bjarni> Prof_Frink: with your naked eyes?
22:02:34  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Yes.
22:02:43  <Bjarni> get them dressed
22:02:47  <Bjarni> your eyes are indecent
22:02:47  <ben_goodger> I've never head of them
22:02:59  <Prof_Frink> ben_goodger: You've never heard of the Ariel Atom?
22:03:02  <ben_goodger> but now you have brought them up, I am prepared to accept their existence, if not their relevancy
22:03:06  <ben_goodger> nope
22:03:16  <Prof_Frink> Road-legal go-kart.
22:03:26  <Prof_Frink> Destroyed Clarkson's face.
22:03:28  <ben_goodger> yes, this may explain why I've not heard of it
22:04:03  <Prof_Frink>
22:04:40  <ben_goodger> heheh, cool
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22:06:15  <ben_goodger> hmm, we seem to have stalled
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22:08:31  <ln> ben_goodger: one could kind of say Saab and Volvo were missing from your list too. Saab is a subsidiary of General Motors, not sure about Volvo.
22:08:45  <glx> volvo too IIRC
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22:09:11  <ben_goodger> volvo is owned by Ford
22:09:31  <ln> so it seems
22:09:54  <ben_goodger> I wouldn't dare denigrate sweden by omitting its car manufacturers :P
22:10:26  <ln> it's up to interpretation if the list should have GM and Ford then.
22:10:55  <ben_goodger> I'm going by headquarters location, rather than manufacturing facilities
22:11:09  <ben_goodger> and no subsidiaries of any kind
22:15:11  <ben_goodger> so I ended up with just vw, peugeot, renault, fiat, mercedes and bmw
22:15:40  <ben_goodger> though how BMW have not been acquired by VW is beyond me, as I will bet they have huge synergies [I do hate that word]
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22:18:27  <ben_goodger> oh, that finance textbook I had 23 hours ago...
22:18:46  <ben_goodger> it has now been joined by five more, making a total of 3775 pages of textbooks to read in the next ten days
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23:00:02  <ln> ¿porque no está personas españolas aquí?
23:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause> están?
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23:02:51  <Eddi|zuHause> ¿están?
23:03:21  <Eddi|zuHause> ¿porqué?
23:03:35  <ln> quite possiblé, i never finished the course i was on.  :/ .. gotta take it again soon.
23:04:07  <Eddi|zuHause> well, personas is plural, so the verb has to be, too
23:04:26  <Eddi|zuHause> and porqué is emphasised on the last syllable, so it needs an accent
23:04:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the rules of spanish are actually very simple (most of the time)
23:05:10  <ln> probably so...
23:08:06  <ln> since my attempted spanish course i have been twice to the kingdom of spain.
23:09:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i've only been before my spanish course...
23:12:08  <ln> i was kind of surprised when i actually understood the price of some item i was buying spoken out.
23:13:24  <Eddi|zuHause> it's easier than in french, where, additionally to the uncommon words and ununderstandable pronounciation, you have to do weird calculations for all numbers betwenn 70 and 100
23:13:44  <ln> heh, yeah. :)
23:14:26  <ln> btw, *pronunciation
23:14:51  <Eddi|zuHause> if you say so...
23:15:25  <ln> it's odd, but that's how it's spelled.
23:17:03  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't trust these british guys with spelling anyway
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23:17:31  <Eddi|zuHause> why can't they say "outspeech" anyway? :p
23:18:04  <ln> Sacro arrived just in time to explain... or did he just reconnect after timeout
23:19:07  <Sacro> D:
23:19:26  <ln> "outspeech" sounds quite technical, like from the owner's manual of an android.
23:19:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it is a literal translation of the german word "Aussprache" ;)
23:20:28  <Sacro> wtf is outspeech
23:20:32  <ln> ich weiß :) das ist auch technisch
23:21:06  <ln> Sacro: pronunciation in germanglish
23:21:31  <Eddi|zuHause> german is like that... every complicated expression in foreignish has a very easy german equivalent ;)
23:21:35  <Sacro> ln: oh
23:21:57  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: how you speak out a word
23:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: we were just discussing how english never makes any sense
23:23:11  <Sacro> ?
23:23:13  <Sacro> oh
23:23:14  <Sacro> meh
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23:25:02  <ln> in swedish: uttal (outspeaking)
23:25:31  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, german never makes sense
23:26:28  <ln> welshdragon: it does, besides they get both cold and hot water from the same tap.
23:26:37  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: in german "Kauderwelsch" means someone who speaks total nonsense ;)
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23:26:57  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, in english, we call it vullshit
23:27:02  <welshdragon> *bullshit
23:27:06  <Sacro> that's south african
23:27:57  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: why would you put the water through too different taps? besides of needing two taps, you'll have to switch between them constantly...
23:27:57  <welshdragon> bullshit? nah, can't be :P
23:28:35  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: ask the britons in here...
23:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... no... "bullshit" doesn't quite cover the same meaning
23:28:52  <ln> gibberish
23:29:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, more something like that
23:29:56  <ln> should be noted that the finnish equivalent would be "pig's german"
23:30:00  <Eddi|zuHause> welshdragon: german is actually one of the most logically structured languages out there
23:30:31  <Eddi|zuHause> only people have huge trouble with logic anyway ;)
23:31:03  <ln> welshdragon: can you give one example where german doesn't make sense?
23:31:32  <welshdragon> ln, i don't understand the structure of german, it seems too 'loose'
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23:32:21  <welshdragon> i do like one of the 'thank you' phrases though...
23:32:23  <Eddi|zuHause> i've never seen another language where it's so easy to make up totally new words and everybody will understand you ;)
23:32:28  <welshdragon> (excuse the spelling)
23:32:46  <welshdragon> "fieden danke"?
23:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> that's almost close ;)
23:33:23  <welshdragon> every time i said that in switzerland, the people woiuld grin
23:33:54  <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry, they weren't pleased, they were just making fun of you ;)
23:34:09  <welshdragon> oh?
23:34:34  <Eddi|zuHause> the phrase is actually "vielen Dank"
23:35:13  <welshdragon> ah, yes, well, i knew it was close
23:35:32  <welshdragon> but i've never seen it written before, nor know it;s meaning
23:35:57  <welshdragon> just assurances from my tour manager that the above saying was giid
23:36:04  <welshdragon> *good
23:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> "much/many thanks" is the literal meaning
23:36:26  <ln> it's not a particularly good idea to say things whose meaning you don't know.
23:36:53  <welshdragon> i went off the assurance it was a good thing
23:36:55  <Eddi|zuHause> "ich möchte diesen teppich nicht kaufen"
23:36:55  <ln> like "allah is a dog" in arabic, or something.
23:37:10  <welshdragon> oh bollocks ><
23:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> this phrase will get you a beer almost anywhere in germany ;)
23:37:24  <welshdragon> got to complete my french reading comprehension
23:37:32  <ln> "i will not buy this record, it is scratched."
23:37:34  <Sacro> oh tannenbaum oh tannenbaum
23:38:15  <Eddi|zuHause> how can you think french is easier to learn and understand than german?
23:38:36  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, i did french in primary school
23:38:46  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: hmm, what's the story of that phrase?  was ist die story von die ... phrase?
23:38:49  <Eddi|zuHause> you poor thing :p
23:39:03  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: it's a commercial
23:39:04  <welshdragon> they taught it alongside welsh, as they are similar languages
23:39:09  <ln> m'kay
23:39:35  <Eddi|zuHause> some foreign person goes into a bavarian beer garden, and reads the phrase from his phrasebook
23:39:35  <ln> story = geschichte
23:39:50  <Eddi|zuHause> g'schichte, actually, since it's bavarian ;)
23:39:51  <welshdragon> un daui tri / un deux trois / one two three / ein zwei drei
23:40:02  <welshdragon> oh bollocks ><
23:40:04  <welshdragon> typo
23:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> drÀ chÀnÀsÀn mÀt dÀm kÀntrÀbÀß
23:42:36  <welshdragon> oh bollocks
23:42:46  <welshdragon> (yet again)
23:43:07  <ln> Eddi|zuHause: hast du die visa-bahncard-werbung am fernseher gesehen, die ganz auf finnisch gesprochen ist?  (vor 10 jahre, oder..)
23:43:08  <Eddi|zuHause> three times is the charm ;)
23:43:28  <Eddi|zuHause> ln: no, i can't remember anything like that
23:43:56  <ln> schade. it was quite a surprise for me to see that for the first time.
23:44:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Prost ihr SÀcke!
23:44:53  <ln> like wtf, a guy with a silly hat, a reindeer in the background, talking about Bahncard in FINNISH, on german television, subtitled in german.
23:45:27  <welshdragon> < my french oral lesson plans
23:45:39  <Eddi|zuHause> "Unsere Alpen sind alle _unecht_"
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23:48:52  <ln>
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23:52:21  <ln> Bjarni: will you arrange an international openttd meeting in copenhagen?
23:53:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "Daß [...] immer nur Bahncard [...] verstanden wird" <- that could easily be an evil play on words :p
23:54:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "Ich verstehe nur Bahnhof." means "I don't understand _anything_."
23:55:21  <ln> yeah
23:55:28  <ln> i've even heard the etymology of that
23:57:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i've heard different ones... not all were entirely plausible, thoug...
23:59:58  <ln> soldiers being demobilized after war, being given orders that the train home leaves from the bahnhof, and then a soldier says he's so exhausted and so that he understands only the bahnhof part of the command.

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