Log for #openttd on 6th November 2008:
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00:00:38  <benjamingoodger> well, yeah
00:00:47  <benjamingoodger> nineteen ninety four ftw
00:05:19  <Belugas> not always.  but i guess its the case with scripts indeed
00:05:25  <Belugas> what's wrong with that?
00:06:08  <benjamingoodger> well, it's pretty maddening that it only reads /usr/share/games/openttd/data and ignores ./.openttd/data
00:06:20  <benjamingoodger> because then I have to get root in order to install grfs
00:06:43  <Aali> you must be doing something wrong, then
00:06:49  <Aali> i have all my grfs in my user dir
00:07:03  <Aali> and cfg and saves per installation
00:07:05  <Belugas> ho... under Linux... can't tell you, i'm on the Windows side of the cpu
00:07:09  <Aali> always worked flawlessly
00:07:59  <benjamingoodger> it reads cfg and saves fine
00:08:01  <benjamingoodger> just not data
00:08:03  <benjamingoodger> irritatingly
00:08:36  <Aali> what files did you put in there?
00:08:48  <Aali> i only keep ottd's own file in the install dir
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00:09:03  <benjamingoodger> put where?
00:09:20  <Aali> *files
00:09:58  <Aali> as in, open*.grf and orig* go in data/ per install, the rest goes in data/ in my user dir
00:10:07  <benjamingoodger> ah
00:10:11  <benjamingoodger> that doesn't seem to work
00:10:18  <Aali> odd
00:10:23  <benjamingoodger> it only works if they are put in data/-per-install
00:10:54  <Aali> where's your config file?
00:11:08  <benjamingoodger> ~/.openttd/
00:11:20  <benjamingoodger> the grfs are in /usr/share..... though
00:11:24  <Aali> try moving it to install dir
00:11:29  <Aali> or copying
00:11:56  <Aali> because i never use the cfg i have in my user dir, i keep them per-install
00:12:10  <benjamingoodger> hmm, very well
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00:40:48  <Char> hmmm
00:40:55  <Char> looking at the landscape generators available
00:41:04  <Char> i feel tempted to make my own one ;)
00:41:16  <Aali> you always say hmm before asking a question
00:41:42  <Aali> that was more of a statement though :P
00:42:29  <Aali> and, are you talking about heightmap generators or the actual landscape generators in ottd?
00:43:20  <Belugas> what more will you bring in?
00:43:29  <Char> hmmm
00:43:29  <Belugas> mmh...
00:43:32  <Belugas> would
00:43:34  <Belugas> not will
00:43:42  <Char> the original one just simply sucks
00:43:50  <Char> and the new one
00:44:14  <Char> i like mountainous landscapes
00:44:40  <Char> but the one it generates
00:44:49  <Char> if you set it to "very smooth" it is horrible
00:44:58  <Char> if you set it to "rough" it is equally horrible
00:45:05  <Char> and the landscapes look so... unreal
00:45:08  <Char> non-creative :P
00:45:15  <Char> i would like to have more options
00:45:19  <Char> but i might be alone there
00:45:30  <benjamingoodger> I find the non-smooth isn't smooth enough
00:45:32  <Belugas> if you're gopod enough to write your own, would n't it be easier to simply fix the current one?
00:45:34  <SmatZ> [01:43:44] <Char> the original one just simply sucks <== don't hurt anyone's feelings :-P
00:45:37  <benjamingoodger> very-smooth rather
00:45:49  <benjamingoodger> the trouble is that the scales are all screwed up
00:45:58  <Belugas> ho... and "sucks"  <--- so freakingly descriptive :P
00:45:59  <Char> hmmm?
00:46:08  <benjamingoodger> we have towns within six tiles of each other
00:46:10  <Char> problem is also that you cannot have really high mountains
00:46:21  <Belugas> the scales are not screwed, ben.  they are what they are.
00:46:25  <benjamingoodger> I forget what size the tiles are, but I think it's about 12m
00:46:35  <Char> well
00:46:38  <Belugas> it's irrelevant
00:46:42  <Aali> 1 tile is 1 tile
00:46:49  <Belugas> it's the size they are, that's it
00:46:51  <Char> if you calculate with train speeds, they are about 800km
00:46:54  <Belugas> yeah :)
00:47:00  <benjamingoodger> obviously, having a town 60m away from another town is improper
00:47:06  <Eddi|zuHause> my problem with scales is that there are not enough height levels
00:47:14  <Char> yeah
00:47:21  <Char> would it be possible to add more height levels?
00:47:23  <Aali> wasn't there a patch for 127 height levels?
00:47:33  <Eddi|zuHause> you can't have cool mountain ranges
00:47:37  <Aali> but that probably butchered the map array
00:47:52  <Aali> and will not go into trunk this century
00:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> adding height levels is not too difficult
00:48:04  <SmatZ> it depends...
00:48:17  <SmatZ> at many places there is "byte" for z coordinate
00:48:43  <Eddi|zuHause> but "byte" would be 256, not 16, like currently
00:48:52  <SmatZ> also, have fun rewriting the drawing routines not to be glitchy or slow
00:49:01  <Aali> oh, right, tiles only define one height, not 4 corners
00:49:03  <Aali> my bad
00:49:52  <SmatZ> 	TILE_HEIGHT =  8,   ///< The standard height-difference between tiles on two levels is 8 (z-diff 8)
00:50:01  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: ^^^ 8 * 127 > 256
00:50:03  <Eddi|zuHause> well, even if you had more height levels, you still need cliffs for proper mountains
00:50:10  <benjamingoodger> yes
00:50:28  <SmatZ> with cliffs, you need really different approach to drawing
00:50:30  <benjamingoodger> the idea that something should drop 50 metres, pm 0, is silly
00:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, right, SmatZ... forgot about that
00:50:55  <Eddi|zuHause> well, not necessarily cliffs, but more height levels for one slope tile
00:51:06  <Char> still
00:51:16  <Char> even if the difference is 8
00:51:25  <Char> 8*32 = 256
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00:51:33  <Char> which would allow for 32 height levels
00:52:01  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, and then check wether all bit-packing places have that additional bit free
00:52:26  <SmatZ> also it would be unpleasant if any tile was completely hidden behind another
00:52:43  <SmatZ> you couldn't build anything there (from user interface)
00:52:58  <SmatZ> or you would have to be able to rotate the map...
00:53:00  <Eddi|zuHause> just implement a rotatable map :p
00:53:15  <SmatZ> :)
00:53:43  <benjamingoodger> good night
00:53:48  <SmatZ> nn ben
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00:55:17  <Char> hmmm
00:55:34  <Char> well
00:55:42  <Char> i will go for the current map generator for now ;)
01:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause> if you are really going to implement a new terrain generator, look at other games that create maps, for example there is a "tectonics" map generator for civ4 that tries to simulate earth like maps by moving small and big plates against each other and generating mountains and oceans like that
01:03:05  <SmatZ> hehe
01:04:08  <Eddi|zuHause> what often disturbs me about TGP landscapes is that they are too regular. there is not one hilly area and one flat area. there are only more or less smooth hills
01:05:23  <Char> hmmm
01:05:24  <Char> well
01:05:42  <Char> i will have to see how much effort it would realistically be to build a map generator
01:05:47  <Char> but
01:05:52  <Char> the idea is tempting
01:06:02  <Char> another question
01:06:08  <Char> conditional orders is a GRF>
01:06:08  <Char> ?
01:06:15  <Eddi|zuHause> no
01:06:31  <Eddi|zuHause> conditional orders are in trunk builds (nightlies)
01:06:40  <Char> oh
01:06:41  <Char> okay
01:06:46  <Char> and how do i give them?
01:07:05  <Eddi|zuHause> they are slightly hidden in the order window ;)
01:07:29  <Char> forum search is down
01:07:34  <Char> but google helps :P
01:12:00  <Char> but it doesnt work
01:12:09  <Char> i can not set the conditional order jumps it seems
01:12:15  <Char> or maybe i am just too stupid
01:13:02  <Char> ah
01:13:03  <Char> now it works
01:13:13  <Char> doesnt give me the options i was looking for, though ;)
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01:15:24  <Char> actually i found out that it is possible to make the game really hard
01:15:29  <Aali> there's a patch called more conditional orders
01:15:34  <Char> hmmm
01:15:44  <Aali> it has the things you really wanted from cond. orders
01:18:08  <Aali> because, honestly, the things you can do with cond. orders in the nightlies is hardly, if ever useful
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01:18:59  <thingwath> Eddi|zuHause: how large is, say, 256x256 openttd map supposed to be in 'real life'?
01:19:26  <Aali> openttd isn't supposed to be in real life
01:19:27  <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of a question is that?
01:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i should refer you to Belugas ;)
01:19:44  <thingwath> speaking about map generators
01:19:57  <Rubidium> anywhere between a few hundred meters and a few hundred kilometers
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01:20:16  <AgentLeMan> 2048 tiles at a tile size of 50 m would make a 102km * 102km page.
01:20:42  <Char> with trains needing ~ 1 year to get from one side to the other
01:20:58  <thingwath> :-)
01:21:26  <Eddi|zuHause> you can reasonably well display the earth on a 2048x1024 map, or the netherlands on a 2048x2048 map
01:21:48  <Eddi|zuHause> with totally different scales
01:22:17  <AgentLeMan> thingwath, 256*256 tiles= 327,680 m² i think
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01:23:04  <AgentLeMan> earth = 510,072,000 km²
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01:23:20  <Rubidium> thingwath, more precisely: a tile is between ~10 meters and ~700 km
01:23:30  <Eddi|zuHause> but i fail to see the relevance for a map generator
01:24:19  <AgentLeMan> Rubidium?
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01:25:11  <Rubidium> or make a bitmask of the "types" that it could be returning
01:25:26  <Rubidium> stupid lag :(
01:25:53  <Rubidium> the relevance to the map generator is that there is no answer for the question how large a tile is
01:26:15  <Char> DB Set XL doesnt work in tropic climate ?!?
01:27:16  <Char> Rubidium: do i need to know?
01:27:25  <Char> realistically
01:27:55  <Eddi|zuHause> no, DBSetXL only works in temperate
01:28:02  <Char> i would put a tile at ~ 100m with 50m height difference between height levels, giving hills up to 400m high
01:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> or in arctic, when the alpine climate is loaded
01:28:13  <Char> is there a reason for that?
01:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> if that is meant technically, check for action 7/9 and action B, if you mean philosophically, talk to the author
01:31:11  <AgentLeMan> can the titlemenu be moved, so we can use customized titlescenarios and have a better view at the center?
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01:33:04  <thingwath> say I want to build ingame railway network which would at least resemble some real network
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01:36:07  <AgentLeMan> ah, interesting......
01:41:56  <thingwath> so there are some constants, like how many passengers there are in cities
01:42:14  <Char> gnah
01:42:19  <Char> my RV is going crazy
01:42:32  <Char> it switches between the two orders i gave it about 100 times per second
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01:44:27  <Char> and i dont get why that is
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01:46:19  <Char> looks like a serious bug to me
01:46:37  <Aali> no, you just built the wrong kind of station
01:46:48  <Char> cool
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01:46:56  <Aali> articulated vehicles need drive-thruogh road stops
01:46:57  <Char> how do i know which kind of station is the right one?
01:47:03  <Eddi|zuHause> Char: articulated RV cannot use terminal stations
01:47:06  <AgentLeMan> so, it is not a bug, but a cheat, aali? ;o)
01:47:20  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a missing feature
01:47:41  <rubyruy> it's a BONUS feature
01:48:01  <thingwath> like trams not having terminal stations at all?
01:48:33  <Aali> terminal stations make no sense for trams
01:48:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that's only loosely related
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01:49:12  <Eddi|zuHause> the original road stations make no sense at all
01:49:12  <AgentLeMan> how possible it is to built doublerailstracks for trains?
01:49:27  <Eddi|zuHause> not.
01:49:46  <rubyruy> well surely a tool could be made that builds 2 tracks on 2 squares
01:49:51  <thingwath> it does make sense to build tram station without loop
01:49:52  <AgentLeMan> because of the pathfinding? i mean... for busses it works
01:50:03  <thingwath> and sometimes I would like to do that
01:50:20  <Eddi|zuHause> pathfinding is the least of the problems
01:50:25  <AgentLeMan> oh
01:50:36  <Eddi|zuHause> pathfinding should actually be really easy
01:50:37  <Aali> thingwath: DRST + half-tile
01:50:43  <Aali> and you're done
01:51:11  <thingwath> when there is no space for that half-tile, then what? :-)
01:51:31  <Aali> then you make space and quit whining :P
01:51:55  <thingwath> :-)
01:52:26  <AgentLeMan> °steps aside as thingwath, the mad bomber, lays waste to half the city° ;o)
01:53:05  <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: you cannot place half tiles on sloped roads
01:53:20  <Eddi|zuHause> neither can you put the tram stop on that slope
01:53:23  <Aali> I don't care
01:53:32  <rubyruy> thingwath: it's probably less of an issue when you use the "allow road stations on top of town owned streets" patch/setting/whatever-it-is
01:54:03  <thingwath> slopes are usually the problem
01:54:16  <AgentLeMan> im having trouble with my feederservice, has anyone time to listen and maybe help?
01:54:33  <Char> terminus stations do make sense for trams
01:54:40  <Char> there is one just 100m away from here in reallife
01:55:05  <AgentLeMan> Char :o) since when makes Real Life (TM) sense always °winks°
01:55:17  <SmatZ> :^)
01:55:38  <Aali> Char: does it have two bays where trams can move around pretty much however they want? :P
01:55:40  <AgentLeMan> but i actually almost always built T-Stations
01:56:00  <Eddi|zuHause> a) different kinds of tram stations will be possible when newgrf_ports gets finished
01:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> b) terminal stations for trams that are not loops need trams that can go backwards
01:57:14  <rubyruy> what is newgrf_ports ?
01:57:39  <Eddi|zuHause> airports that can be defined by newgrfs
01:57:47  <rubyruy> oh nice
01:57:51  <Eddi|zuHause> later to be extended to seaports and road stations
01:58:04  <rubyruy> that means i could have my ginormous airports when it's done? :D
01:58:40  <thingwath> b would be just a little inaccuracy, there are soo many of them already :-)
01:58:43  <AgentLeMan> why is building a heliport totally screwing the system? i mean, build one and you get MASSES of passengers, which you just cant get rid of ( except you use trains )
01:59:46  <AgentLeMan> it as if they offer bunjee-jumping out of those helicopters
01:59:52  <Aali> AgentLeMan: because passangers don't care what they're boarding? they just want to go *somewhere*, they don't care how it's done
02:00:14  <Aali> the cargodest branch aims to solve these problems
02:00:37  <AgentLeMan> Aali, yes, but... it isnt the case with other stations, i experienced enourmously high growth at such heliports, regarding passangers
02:01:21  <AgentLeMan> as if the growth-mechanism thinks, not helis come to that station but oceanliners
02:01:42  <Aali> there is no growth-mechanism
02:02:17  <Aali> houses in catchment area generate passengers and these are then distributed to stations after ratings
02:02:58  <thingwath> and with larger cities, there is absolutely no way to transport them all :-)
02:03:00  <Aali> if your heliport covers alot of houses or has high ratings, its going to get ALOT of passengers
02:03:33  <Aali> there's even a patch to reduce passenger generation because it gets out of hand as cities grow
02:04:18  <Belugas> therefor, if you heliport is so crowded, it's because you placed it at the wrong place!
02:04:25  <Belugas> bleblebleh
02:05:01  <Aali> you mean the right place :P
02:05:21  <Aali> having cargo to transport is good
02:05:50  <Char> btw, is it just the inevitable truth that RVs are stupid?
02:06:12  <Belugas> no they are not stupid
02:06:19  <Belugas> because they do not have a soul
02:06:21  <AgentLeMan> having SO much cargo that youcant ever get rid of it, thus getting a bad rating is bad ;o)
02:06:32  <Belugas> they are just numbers been crunched by the cpu!
02:06:32  <Aali> Char: they're "simple"
02:06:53  <Aali> they are stupid if you use go via orders though
02:07:22  <Aali> AgentLeMan: bad rating = less cargo, if its still too much, what have you got to lose?
02:07:52  <Belugas> so all in all, stupidity and ignorance are walking side by side
02:08:12  <Aali> *cough*someone should fix FS#2397*cough*
02:09:20  <Char> hmmmm
02:09:37  <Char> cause they seem unable to properly use a multi-bay loading area
02:09:44  <Char> or unloading, for that matter
02:09:49  <thingwath> sometimes, I would be happier, if there were no pathfinding, just list of tiles :o)
02:10:42  <Aali> thingwath: maybe you should implement it in ttdpatch
02:10:58  <thingwath> ttdpatch?
02:10:59  <Aali> they tend to like insane stuff
02:11:14  <Belugas> 2397? that patch with an insanely long one liner??
02:11:18  <thingwath> I don't think it's insane
02:11:24  <Aali> Belugas: indeed
02:11:44  <Belugas> hell if i do
02:12:11  <Aali> its like 3 lines in a standard terminal, heh
02:12:29  <Char> 64x64 map :P
02:12:31  <Char> kinda cool
02:12:38  <Char> got all industries connected, though
02:12:58  <Belugas> the code may be right (can't judge), but the style sucks (love using it now) and there is no comments as for what the additions are for
02:14:20  <Aali> it fits right in with the old code
02:14:29  <Belugas> wrong
02:14:36  <Aali> "update destination" for that whole if statement
02:14:38  <Belugas> and old code may not be a reference
02:15:07  <Aali> i'm not saying it is
02:15:15  <Belugas> in fact, the oldest the code, less likely it is a reference of style
02:15:18  <Aali> and i'm not saying you should just apply patch as it is
02:15:57  <Aali> AND, i'm not even sure the code is right (i.e. doesn't screw up anything else)
02:17:35  <Belugas> well... i've never been too good about vehicles, so it's a bit hard for me to judge too
02:18:04  <Aali> no rush, really
02:19:01  <Belugas> now...
02:19:13  <Aali> just thought i should mention it while we were on the subject
02:19:18  <Belugas> you've included the condition "!(this->current_order.GetNonStopType() & ONSF_NO_STOP_AT_DESTINATION_STATION)"
02:19:25  <Belugas> tell me more about it, please
02:20:27  <Aali> like the flyspray entry says, that checks if the current order is a go via order
02:20:52  <Aali> if the vehicle isn't going to stop at the station, there's no point in reserving a slot
02:21:22  <Aali> because it doesn't try to clear the slot when it does reach it
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02:22:42  <AgentLeMan> alright, there seems to be something weird about that heliport....
02:23:01  <Aali> the normal "arrived at station" code doesn't "see" the go via station, because it only handles vehicles that actually stop
02:23:06  <Belugas> i see...
02:24:27  <Aali> one side effect would of course be that RVs will no longer try to go to a "free" slot for go via orders
02:24:45  <AgentLeMan> after 1 year at a 25000 peoplecity, a heliport has 1800 passangers, a busstation 1000 and a trainstation also 1000 ( roughly) all stations are tested solely, all being 1 tile big.
02:24:52  <Aali> but once again, they're not stopping, so it makes no difference
02:25:33  <AgentLeMan> so there must be "something" different at a heliport, that draws so much people to it
02:27:53  <Belugas> what bugs me is that fact that the code is located in the OnNewDay function
02:28:56  <Aali> thats where RV queueing happens, apparently
02:29:10  <AgentLeMan> hm, about the ratings, is it normal they go down at 2050?
02:31:32  <Aali> I wonder if that causes trouble with daylength patch
02:32:13  <Belugas> dunno
02:32:19  <Belugas> least of my concerns
02:32:44  <Aali> i've never used it, so i wouldn't know
02:33:02  <Belugas> so, in fact, it only clears one tiny bit of a problem, but the queuing is still there for the others
02:33:18  <Belugas> it's only when using the station as a waypoint that it acts like that
02:33:25  <Belugas> and that the fix comes in place
02:34:34  <Aali> if there are no unexpected complications, yes
02:35:16  <Aali> you could of course solve it the other way around, make queueing actually work for go via orders too
02:35:25  <Aali> but it seems like a lot of work for such a small thing
02:35:53  <AgentLeMan> 'specially for roadvehicles
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02:40:23  <Belugas> got to go to sleep
02:40:38  <Belugas> i'll try to have a talk with the others about it
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02:40:44  <Belugas> night
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02:40:56  <AgentLeMan> goodnight belu...gas
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02:41:48  <AgentLeMan> °waves° bye then
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04:31:01  <ln-> goooooood moooorrniiiiing
04:31:12  <Doorslammer> Vietnam
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06:12:30  <ln-> it's @300
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07:54:18  <dih> ln-: congrats on finding internet time and being able to use 'beats'
07:55:14  <ln-> dih: thank you, sir.
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07:59:09  <petern> dih!
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08:10:54  <dih> petern!
08:12:00  <planetmaker> morning
08:21:04  <petern> planetmaker!¬
08:23:31  <planetmaker> petern(n+1)!
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08:24:10  <ln-> did you mean: peter1, ..., peter(n-1), petern
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08:26:14  <planetmaker> I meant peternn and petern wit n in N
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09:38:06  <Aperculum> what is openttd-useful package?
09:38:30  <dih> a package with useful stuff
09:38:50  <Aperculum> but what exactly
09:38:59  <dih> does it now say?
09:39:01  <Aperculum> does it come with base install of openttd?
09:39:11  <dih> if it did - there would be no need for it
09:39:30  <dih> the last news entrie sais it includes libraries
09:39:55  <Aperculum> well, that doesn't really tell much
09:39:56  <dih> and is needed by those who compile openttd themselves on windows systems with the ms own compiler
09:40:10  <Aperculum> oh, I see
09:40:28  <dih> else - download it, have a look at it
09:40:29  <Aperculum> not on windows and no need to compile :)
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09:43:25  <dih> then you dont need it ;-)
09:43:54  <Aperculum> that's what I wanted to know, thank you
09:44:01  <dih> you are welcome :-P
09:45:31  <Aperculum> :)
09:47:11  <SpComb> mv
09:47:46  <planetmaker> good idea actually :)
09:49:50  <dih> SpComb: without the 32 :-P
09:50:29  <dih> or
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10:31:37  <Aperculum> what can I do when plane crashes?
10:32:17  <Aperculum> how do I clean up the parts so I can use the airport again
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10:34:01  <Aperculum> also, same with train crashes, can I clean them up to free the rails?
10:35:25  <Aali> no
10:36:48  <Aperculum> I'm just supposed to leave them there?
10:36:54  <Aali> yes
10:42:37  <dih> they clean up after time
10:42:40  <dih> after a month or so
10:43:01  <dih> Aperculum: please read - there is a great game play manual
10:43:09  <dih> explains all these parts
10:43:49  <Aperculum> I see, thanks
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11:51:12  <Ammler> Developer Blog dead or moved?
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11:55:29  <Rubidium> moved to /dev/zero
11:55:39  <Ammler> :-)
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13:46:09  <Belugas> hello all
13:48:42  <petern> hi
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14:36:04  <Char2> re
14:51:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Developer1 [with saxon accent]: "hast du ma de biden konsole benutzt?"
14:51:14  <Eddi|zuHause> Developer2 [also with saxon accent]: "jo, domit hab'sch obama georbeided"
14:53:56  <Belugas> mmh... i s was pretty sure i did not asked for german subtitles on this remote control :S
14:54:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it's a horrible play on dialects and the obama/biden election
14:57:05  <Char2> its rather strange
14:57:08  <Char2> actually
14:57:30  <Eddi|zuHause> the biden -> python replacement might be understandable by "outsiders"
14:57:54  <Eddi|zuHause> but that "hab'sch obama" actually expands to "hab ich schon ein paar mal"
14:58:02  <Eddi|zuHause> might not even be obvious to germans ;)
14:58:32  <Eddi|zuHause> [translation is basically: "have you used the python console yet?" - "yes, i have worked with it a number of times"
14:59:00  *** Batti5 [~Lorand@] has joined #openttd
15:02:32  <Belugas> hello Batti5
15:02:43  * Belugas puts on The Hawk Is Howling
15:03:18  <Batti5> wats new?
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15:03:50  <Eddi|zuHause> horrible jokes in german
15:03:56  <Batti5> witch IRC client You use?
15:04:04  <petern> which
15:04:10  <Eddi|zuHause> /ctcp <nickname> version
15:04:24  <Batti5> thanks petern
15:05:02  <Eddi|zuHause> yours is: "Kopete IRC Plugin 0.12.7 []"
15:06:15  <Batti5> yes, and now i can do this  :-S which i couldent with Konversation
15:07:06  <Eddi|zuHause> klicki-bunti-smilies?
15:07:47  <Eddi|zuHause> smilie-replacement is a horrible feature, because it replaces stuff which never was meant as smilie
15:08:13  <Eddi|zuHause> i once got a message with a copyright mark, and the (C) was replaced by a coffee mug...
15:08:20  <fonso> Klicki-bunti also ...
15:09:05  *** fonso is now known as Ulf
15:09:08  <Batti5> in Konversation no smilies at all
15:09:10  *** Ulf is now known as fonso
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15:10:55  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
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15:26:10  <Batti6> hello batti5
15:26:30  <Batti5> how are you?
15:26:53  <Batti6> are upgrade
15:27:29  <Batti5> what upgrade, is this a joke?
15:27:35  <Batti6> the upgrade is delayed, canceled
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15:29:03  <Brianetta> Hello Andel
15:29:04  <Batti6> hello ?
15:29:16  <Batti5> hello
15:29:19  <Batti6> hello, nathaniel
15:29:25  <glx> babyottd renamed?
15:29:35  <Batti6> rubidium ponders feeding babyottd some lorem ipsum
15:30:07  <Brianetta> Too many Battis here
15:30:13  <Andel> hello Brianetta
15:30:15  <Batti6> hello anyone
15:31:24  <Brianetta> so
15:31:24  <Batti6> the bot so it's questionable whether
15:31:42  <Brianetta> er, yeah
15:31:53  <Brianetta> so you're on twice?
15:32:39  <Brianetta> meh, never mind
15:32:39  <Aperculum> my game won't play the musics although I have timidity installed
15:32:39  <Batti6> dosent mind them
15:32:59  <Brianetta> Aperculum: Neither will mine.
15:33:09  <glx> Aperculum: and you have gm dir too?
15:33:14  <Batti5> Neither will mine
15:33:16  <Batti6> will mine
15:33:30  <Aperculum> hmm, I think I just added it this morning
15:33:32  <Aperculum> moment
15:33:35  <Batti6> the moment
15:33:41  <Batti6> the morning and arrange for a night is not implemented
15:33:44  <Aperculum> yes, with files
15:34:26  <Aperculum> if I play those files with timidity manually, they work fine
15:35:03  <glx> can you play them while the game is running too?
15:35:06  <Batti5> listen, im The Only Batti Here, please pick an other nick
15:35:13  <Batti6> can teach him to listen for a bit
15:35:16  *** Brianetta is now known as Batti7
15:35:27  <glx> not funny Batti7 :)
15:35:29  <Batti7> I am a batti too now (:
15:35:30  <Batti6> some funny poo
15:35:33  <Batti6> i am the man from
15:35:36  *** Batti7 is now known as Brianetta
15:35:44  <Aperculum> glx, no, I can't play them ingame
15:35:46  <Aperculum> that's my problem
15:35:51  <Batti6> the internet play via public, Aperculum
15:36:05  <Aperculum> or do you mean can I play them manually while game is running?
15:36:14  <glx> the latter
15:36:28  <Aperculum> hmm
15:36:30  <Aperculum> moment
15:36:32  <Batti6> the moment
15:36:35  <Brianetta> If you happen to have a midi piano, you can try that...
15:36:47  <Batti6> although hmm, it's legality has been questioned by some, since the initial versions were created
15:37:06  <glx> Batti6: go see a deltic
15:37:13  <Aperculum> glx, "couldn't open output device"
15:37:16  <Aperculum> by timidity
15:37:45  <glx> there's a variable to set to allow that
15:37:55  <Batti6> will allow you for the nightly was created every day
15:38:10  <Aperculum> glx, alsa, timidity or openttd variable?
15:38:17  <Batti6> with timidity manually, they howl
15:38:25  <glx> sdl
15:38:37  <Aperculum> haha, the one not on my list
15:38:40  <Aperculum> how?
15:38:46  <Batti6> master server list window a tad more usable
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15:40:35  <petern> Batti6, you love deltics
15:40:42  <Batti6> we love the sound of a wide range
15:40:43  <Batti5> for me timidity only works if i play the gm files manualy,
15:40:51  <Batti6> Batti5 alsa, timidity or openttd variable ?
15:41:48  <glx> Aperculum: export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=esd or something like that
15:41:50  <Batti6> or something
15:41:53  <Batti5> and even then is slow why? i use fedora8
15:44:06  <Aperculum> glx, thanks, that fixed it
15:44:12  <Batti6> one little bug, fixed in 5 minutes
15:44:14  <Aperculum> I put it in my bashrc now
15:44:17  <Aperculum> thanks a lot :)
15:44:29  <Batti6> a lot worse i guess that would have been written in c++
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15:50:47  <Brianetta> Hey, Burty!
15:50:47  <Batti6> what the moon is made from your memory !
15:50:56  <Burty> hey Brianetta
15:50:58  <Batti6> hey Burty
15:51:15  <Burty> Batti6... no relation to Batti5?? are you??
15:51:27  <Batti6> the internet are vast and there is no link on the site : s
15:51:51  <Brianetta> Batti5 has a different host name
15:51:58  <Burty> ahhh ok thanks brianetta
15:52:06  <Brianetta> well, I say host name
15:52:13  <Brianetta> It's an unresolved IP
15:52:46  <Batti5> your all crazy
15:52:53  <Batti6> i'm not crazy, he dressed like me !
15:52:57  <Brianetta> my all crazy?
15:53:06  * Burty is crazy indeed
15:54:01  <Batti5> Batti6, is nobody i know.
15:54:32  <Batti5> he/she stealed my nick
15:54:42  <Brianetta> your nick is Batti5
15:55:03  <SmatZ> :-D @ Batti5 & Batti6 ... weren't you "batti5" before? (small B)
15:55:05  <Batti6> lol @ SmatZ
15:55:47  <SmatZ> neither of you is batti5 , right?
15:56:01  <Batti5> wrong
15:56:15  <SmatZ> :-D
15:56:17  <Batti6> SmatZ : )
15:56:19  <SmatZ> THE batti5 :)
15:56:20  <Batti6> : )
15:57:50  <Batti5> it me that batti5, that nearly got banned for the s word, but saved by Belugas
15:58:26  <Batti5> Batti6 is a stranger
15:59:27  <planetmaker> :D
15:59:43  <planetmaker> evil social engeneering... :P
15:59:45  <Batti6> right now : p
15:59:52  <planetmaker> ^^
15:59:56  <Batti5>  :-@
16:00:18  <Belugas> hum?
16:00:24  * Burty is sorry i asked
16:00:30  <Belugas> someone called?
16:01:39  <Brianetta> Too many people starting with B
16:01:39  <Batti6> too many people
16:01:43  <planetmaker> a robot calls for a kick me thinks.
16:01:47  <Belugas> 103 to be exact!
16:01:52  <Batti6> try that would be a pain
16:02:09  *** Eddi|zuHause is now known as BEddi
16:02:11  *** Burty [] has quit []
16:02:15  <BEddi> better now?
16:02:16  <BEddi> :p
16:02:17  <Batti6> ( : p
16:02:23  <Brianetta> We lost Burty ):
16:02:24  <Batti6> i want to you lost me
16:02:32  *** BEddi is now known as Eddi|zuHause
16:02:59  <Eddi|zuHause> that can be arranged...
16:03:34  <planetmaker> hehe
16:03:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i really wonder about the turing test if the test subjects are Batti5 and Batti6 :p
16:04:00  <Brianetta> Eddi: Who's which what?
16:04:00  <Batti6> the cheese, which is what the moon who will always eat
16:04:05  <Batti5>  *STOP*
16:04:13  <Andel> hammer time?
16:04:20  <Brianetta> Dow, now now now,
16:04:20  <Batti6> stops now exist, don't figure out is how to set up a bot so it's half an hour late for suppsoedly running the compile farm at 2000
16:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause> the moon is made of meat, everybody knows that
16:04:29  <Batti6> the to everybody
16:05:59  <Batti5> Batti6, stop fouling around with my name
16:06:03  *** Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
16:06:09  <Brianetta> Hey, Zahl
16:06:09  <Batti6> the time Brianetta there is no link on the moon who will always eat
16:06:54  <Batti5> I use only Batti,Batti5 & Batti3004
16:07:29  <Eddi|zuHause> let me guess which one is your age? :p
16:08:44  <Batti5> thare over 3000 Batti`s in this world, i cant be all of them
16:09:04  <Batti6> no you cant tell there's legality has been questioned by some, since the initial versions were created
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16:11:05  <Brianetta> So
16:11:15  <Brianetta> Which one is pretending to be the other?
16:11:51  <Batti5> Batti6
16:12:02  <Brianetta> Like we believe you
16:12:03  <Batti6> i cannot believe you guys accept a bot, but forename is the one creating
16:12:18  <welshdragon> one is a one, so belongs to Brianetta
16:12:18  <Batti6> org
16:12:28  <Belugas> it's very nice to attend a conference call when you're voiceless.  Somehow, everybody is REALLY listening to what you say, whenever you try to push a few words :D
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16:13:16  <planetmaker> :D The silent words may ring the loudest :)
16:13:20  <Batti6> that may lead to death
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16:16:30  <Batti5> you all say im crazy, but Batti6 is crazyer
16:17:05  <Brianetta> crazier than the crazy batti5?
16:17:05  <Batti6> webpage is crazy indeed
16:17:06  <Brianetta> nah
16:17:23  <welshdragon> both of you are as mad as hatters
16:17:26  <Batti6> for both cases
16:18:45  <Batti5> ok Batti6, remove the mask, halloween passed a week ago.
16:18:57  <welshdragon> what mask?
16:19:06  <Batti6> : what do you care to read the credits ?
16:19:07  <planetmaker> mv Batti6 babyottd
16:19:10  *** Batti6 is now known as babyottd
16:19:15  <babyottd> lachie slaps babyottd on the site : s
16:19:19  <Brianetta> !words
16:19:19  <babyottd> I know 4670 words (32911 contexts, 7.05 per word), 5033 lines.
16:19:21  <Brianetta> !version
16:19:21  <babyottd> I am a version 1.1.0 PyBorg
16:19:21  *** Brianetta was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
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16:19:33  * Brianetta slaps DorpsGek with a balloon
16:19:41  * welshdragon dropkicks DorpsGek
16:19:42  <babyottd> geared to make him say gaga from time
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16:20:54  <Brianetta> Batti5: You're as mad as babyottd.
16:20:55  <babyottd> you're really there, stop fouling around with my useless ive : o
16:21:00  <planetmaker> he... !version is actually not the right one... people will ask for !revision :)
16:21:05  <Brianetta> Also, we suspect you're as robotic.
16:21:05  <babyottd> they're going to start a facebook user
16:21:18  <babyottd> planetmaker nightly was created every day at the same revision the clients are expected to use
16:22:02  <Batti5> Brianetta: you too Batti7
16:22:19  <Brianetta> I'm a robot, yes.
16:22:27  <Brianetta> You're speaking to an AI.
16:22:34  <Brianetta> babyottd is a younger AI
16:22:49  <Brianetta> as you can tell from his appalling command of language
16:22:49  <babyottd> the command
16:22:54  <planetmaker> But you passed the Turing test.
16:23:01  <babyottd> i will have passed the turing test
16:23:02  <Brianetta> There is that
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16:24:01  <Batti5> you made this up? This Batti6 thing
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16:39:30  <Brianetta> Batti5: Yes.
16:39:41  <Brianetta> babyottd is actually a computer program.
16:41:18  <Batti5> a talking program?
16:43:19  <Brianetta> Yes.  A PyBorg
16:43:33  <Brianetta> Everything he learned he learned on this channel or #tycoon
16:43:50  <Brianetta> He puts sentences together from bits he sees that look like bits he saw before
16:45:09  <benjamingoodger> he's a little sod, that's what he is
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16:45:20  <benjamingoodger> *grumbles about "kids these days" and such*
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16:49:05  <ccfreak2k> Brianetta, what's the backend for it?
16:49:57  <Brianetta> PyBorg is a Python app
16:50:09  <Brianetta> flat file
16:50:34  <ccfreak2k> Yes I could figure out the Python part on my own.
16:50:52  <ccfreak2k> I mean what does it use to "put sentences together from bits he sees that look like bits he saw before"?
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16:54:58  <benjamingoodger> ccfreak2k: it forms associations between words that it sees commonly used together
16:55:33  <ccfreak2k> I'll just assume it's using Markov chains.
16:55:57  <benjamingoodger> good idea.
16:56:20  <benjamingoodger> that was my assumption too
16:56:31  <George> Belugas: Looks like there are not much questions for me :) I was expecting more :) So, are there any questions for me left?
16:58:33  <planetmaker> George: Thx for your website update. I also updated our grf repo :)
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17:01:47  <Brianetta> ccfreak2k: It uses Python statements.  Never having looked at them, I couldn't elaborate.
17:02:19  <ccfreak2k> That's like saying "my C program uses the standard C library."
17:03:04  <Brianetta> Yes, it is.
17:03:29  <SpComb> ccfreak2k: not all C programs use the standard C library
17:03:37  <George> planetmaker: Where did you updated it? I could not find.
17:03:45  <Brianetta> It's also the answer to your question, as far as I could answer it.
17:04:14  <ccfreak2k> It wasn't the answer I'm looking for, so I'm guessing A) you didn't program it, or B) you DID program it, but not with any specific algorithm in mind.
17:04:45  <Brianetta> I didn't program it.
17:04:56  <Brianetta> Also, algorithm doesn't imply back end
17:05:10  <Brianetta> It back end is a flat file database, as I said
17:05:43  <SpComb> and it's slow
17:05:50  <planetmaker> George: in our (not open) grf repository where we continuously update the grfs.
17:05:53  <ccfreak2k> "Markov chains" probably could've clued you in on what kind of answer I wanted.
17:06:10  <planetmaker> <--- that collection
17:06:11  <ccfreak2k> SpComb, try the megahal plugin for eggdrop when its brain file becomes sizeable. THEN you'll know slow. :)
17:07:10  <planetmaker> from time to time we take a snapshot of it and call it a new release of the #openttdcoop grf pack :)
17:07:32  *** Brianetta [] has quit [Quit: TschÌß]
17:07:38  <planetmaker> well. Basically Ammler does that.
17:07:50  <Ammler> we is fine :P
17:08:05  <Belugas> ho... sorry George... you are not hilgighed on this client, nor is my nick either :S
17:09:16  <George> Fine. It is evening here, so I can answer questions if there are any :)
17:09:39  <ccfreak2k> I have one.
17:09:52  <ccfreak2k> What would happen if the Earth's core were to suddenly become hollow?
17:10:07  <Belugas> George : there is still that question about the number of production changes per months
17:11:44  <Belugas> the exact reason for the request does not really strike us
17:12:03  <benjamingoodger> ccfreak2k: depends on the properties of the earth's crust
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17:12:14  <planetmaker> George: I was wrong. It's even accessible:
17:12:37  <George> Bel
17:12:38  <benjamingoodger> but most likely, the planet would collapse toward the mountain ranges and form an odd-shaped lump
17:13:06  <George> Belugas: And what is the question then?
17:13:48  <planetmaker> [18:15]	<benjamingoodger>	but most likely, the planet would collapse toward the mountain ranges and form an odd-shaped lump <-- not true.
17:14:02  <planetmaker> it's sufficient mass that again a sphere would form.
17:14:34  <benjamingoodger> the crust wouldn't be massive enough for that, surely
17:15:04  <George> planetmaker: But I can't see the difference for beta 5 and alpha 1 ECS vectors, while it is different on my site
17:15:21  <benjamingoodger> meh, doesn't matter, it's not going to happen
17:15:23  <planetmaker> benjamingoodger: the core is the inner 2000km. The rest ist the mantle.
17:15:50  <benjamingoodger> oh, well, if it's just the literal core
17:15:50  <benjamingoodger> then yes
17:16:11  <benjamingoodger> I thought he was referring a Vergon VI scenario such that only the crust remained
17:16:52  <planetmaker> George: we should have the latest of each listed on your website - there are only beta 5...
17:18:02  <George> No, they are not. and they are not CC-BY-NC-ND
17:18:44  <planetmaker> oh, that link then needs fixing. Thanks for pointing out.
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17:19:46  <George> only LV4 and ECS beta 5 are CC-BY-NC-ND. Others are not. They are outdated and I do not want them to be distributed by the servers.
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17:20:40  <planetmaker> hm... I don't find that link anywhere... probably I'm blind. Can you give me a more detailed hint please?
17:21:02  <Belugas> basically, George, how important is that data for you?  I mean... i'm sure you can live without it
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17:21:11  <Belugas> what would you use it for?
17:21:42  <Belugas> honestly, we're not THAT enthusiast to implement it
17:21:51  <George> planetmaker: link to GRFs page or what?
17:23:05  <planetmaker> yeah. I don't see where I have a link to your old grfs. I'm happy to change it, though.
17:23:21  <planetmaker> as it's a wiki, you could actually change it even yourself :P
17:24:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: we still distribute beta4 with GRFPack 7.2
17:24:43  <planetmaker> ah.
17:25:34  <planetmaker> but even there the download links point to the current page... :S
17:27:25  <George> Belugas: It is not a very important thing, because it causes only 12,5% error in calculation, that is acceptable.
17:27:26  <George> Value would be used for production change callback. It would determinate amount of cargo required to store. Now I use a value of 9 cycles, that would mean that 12,5% of resources would stay unused at the end of month. Not much, so it make a feature not much useful now. but in case of day length  patch would go into trunk, the difference may become really huge with more than 100% mistake. So,...
17:27:28  <George> could go to todo list with a very low priority, but should be picked up as soon as  day length patch goes to trunk.
17:28:38  <dih> somehow i wonder if that would ever happen
17:28:52  <frosch123> and whether month would still be months
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17:30:29  <dih> & freud
17:31:25  <Belugas> so the basic question is if yes or no day length patch would ever be in trunk, i guess
17:31:48  <dih> :-P
17:32:02  <George> frosch123: Yes, but amount of production callbacks would be different. And amount of required resources should be different too!
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17:32:39  <frosch123> yup, and that are so many questions, that daylength will not hit trunk in the next 10 years
17:33:15  <dih> uh....
17:33:32  * dih applies the daylengthpatch to his life and fastforwards 10 years
17:33:56  <George> Belugas: Do you suppose that it can not go to the trunk? I think it is only a question of time. So, the question is only "When would day length patch go in trunk"
17:34:34  <Belugas> i agree with frosch123.  It's very unlikely it would ever be in
17:34:39  <dih> George, you are behaving as every other tt-forums user
17:34:58  <George> dih: ?
17:35:06  <dih> when will x feature be in trunk
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17:35:27  <dih> and "i think that i is easy / only a question of time...
17:35:31  <dih> *it
17:35:38  <dih> :-P
17:35:41  <Belugas> dih, calm down.  George is not someone who is active in the developpement.
17:35:49  <Belugas> he has his own concerns and agendas
17:35:54  <dih> true
17:35:57  <dih> :-P
17:36:18  <dih> still - looks like a sneakey way round the back to ask the same thing :-P
17:36:24  <Belugas> he simply react on problems that have been raised while users are using his grfs with this or that patch
17:36:54  <George> I do not ask "When". I say what is required to support it on my side. I do not say "It is easy". I say "what is easier, A or B".
17:38:17  <dih> [18:34]  <George> Belugas: Do you suppose that it can not go to the trunk? I think it is only a question of time. So, the question is only "When would day length patch go in trunk"
17:38:17  <Belugas> you see, dih?  you're jumping too fast on the gun ^_^
17:38:26  <dih> am i?
17:38:37  <Belugas> like a machine gun :)
17:38:48  * Belugas pats dih
17:38:56  <Belugas> good boy, good boy
17:39:26  <George> :)
17:40:03  <petern> hmm, does ms ts (rdp) require a specific type of ssl certificate?
17:40:06  <dih> fine :-(
17:40:39  <George> dih: and where did I say that it is easy? I know what is to make a thing. LVs are 5 years old. So, 10 years for a big patch is not much ;)
17:41:13  <dih> there was a slash (/) interpret that as "or"
17:41:49  <dih> and i never said _you_ said it, the tt-forum _users_ do that :-P
17:41:52  <Belugas> George, one thing for sure, i'm pretty sure i will not see the day where that patch will be in trunk
17:42:44  <Belugas> so i would not worry too much about it,if i were you
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17:43:24  <George> Hey, you are not so OLD. I'm 30 and I suppose my daughter would play OTTD with day length patch ;)
17:43:26  <ccfreak2k> petern, are you using a self-signed cert?
17:45:31  <petern> yes
17:45:34  <petern> well
17:45:40  <petern> local ca
17:46:07  <petern> the cert & key are perfectly valid from the certificate manager (via mmc) point of view
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17:46:52  <petern> annoyingly i've done this before and it worked :o
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17:48:09  <George> Belugas: I think that I should discuss it with day length patch devs. I suppose there are many users interested in this patch.  So, I should plan the support it. At least I should to have a plan for future.
17:48:21  <Belugas> George, i'm about to be 44.  Guess that's starting to count as old ;)
17:49:13  <Belugas> are you sure daylength triggers more callbacks?
17:49:25  <Belugas> petern, you're atill at work?
17:52:07  <frosch123> searching a companion?
17:52:15  <George> Yes. At least it was discussed on the forums, and it was said that the tick length is unchanged, while the number of ticks per day changes. Because production callback happens every 256 ticks, doubling day length also doubles the number of callbacks happen
17:53:53  <dih> then the daylength patch should reajust some loops :-P
17:54:33  <Belugas> should'nt it be simpler to know the number of ticks per day?
17:54:53  <George> well, my 23 y.o colleagues also call me OLD :)
17:54:57  <Belugas> cause it's a pretty tedious job to even find the number of days in a month.
17:55:03  <Belugas> hehe
17:55:28  <frosch123> dih: I would suggest a new tab in the advanced settings, where you can control like 30 parameters. I.e. number of ticks pers day, number of days till monthy-callback, ....
17:55:57  <dih> monthy python callback?
17:56:14  <planetmaker> FOR! monty python will spice up the game ;)
17:56:18  <dih> tell me a jock
17:56:21  <dih> e
17:56:22  <dih> gnah
17:56:26  <dih> bad timing for a typo
17:56:27  <frosch123> :p
17:57:00  * Belugas puts on a wig, grab his guitar and plays in front of the mirror, pretending he is still young
17:58:07  <George> Yes it is enough to know the difference between the current day length and default day length.
17:58:09  <dih> :-D
17:58:13  <dih> Belugas, nice one :-D
17:58:30  <dih> i am thinking that would be a lovely quote for my forums sig
18:00:26  <George> planetmaker: Old ECS vectors are here
18:01:48  <planetmaker> yes, I know, George . But I understand that you don't want them promoted anymore :)
18:03:48  <Belugas> frosch123, am i right in assuming ttdpatch does not have the same ticks per day as OpenTTD?
18:04:03  <Belugas> i think i've read that somewhere
18:04:05  <George> planetmaker: So, are there any questions left? If you'd like to distribute some old grf, let's discuss it. I may change my opinion about a single old grf
18:05:06  <planetmaker> George: generally we like to keep our repo up to date. But for backward compatibility (older savegames) we keep the old grfs.
18:05:21  <planetmaker> So, there might be in a legacy pack older grfs.
18:05:27  <Belugas> dih, i don't mind :) it would just be the second itme ;)
18:05:32  <Belugas> time
18:05:37  <planetmaker> They're not part of the usual distribution, though
18:05:45  * Belugas BadCats
18:05:45  <George> planetmaker: what are the old grfs that are already in use?
18:06:09  <planetmaker> George: the current pack has beta 4 - so people currently get them.
18:06:38  <planetmaker> the overall repository is some years old...
18:07:03  <planetmaker> I don't know myself what there actually is in the extension packs for very old savegames.
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18:08:42  <Wolf01> hello
18:10:11  <planetmaker> everything which is outdated is also clearly marked as obsolete. <--- history of the grfs... @ George
18:10:39  <planetmaker> but: that's current. My shopping around for licenses is in order to make sure that no one can take offence :)
18:11:32  <frosch123> Belugas: no, that would break a lot. but IIRC a tick takes different amount of real time in dos and windows (=OTTD) version.
18:11:45  <frosch123> like 30ms vs. 28ms
18:12:40  <planetmaker> frosch123: wouldn't that have clients on different OS desync?
18:12:41  <George> Well, I think the old versions should be removed then. Servers should use the new staff, while for old game a person can download the file from the authors site.
18:13:12  <planetmaker> George: the default download is new stuff
18:13:18  <frosch123> planetmaker: the question was about ttdp
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18:13:35  <planetmaker> the rest is for historical reasons.
18:13:36  <Belugas> frosch123, i was under the impression.  sorry
18:13:37  <George> planetmaker: My aborted GRFs are not in the obsolete list.
18:13:46  <planetmaker> which?
18:14:11  <planetmaker> sorry that I seem to ask so dumb... I am :P
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18:15:21  <planetmaker> In our current pack there are AFAIK no grf of you which are obsolete.
18:16:17  <planetmaker> just to make sure: <--- that's what we currently distribute.
18:16:32  <planetmaker> Which are problematic for you, George?
18:18:16  <George> planetmaker: NewMonorailMrHuntW.grf for example. The one that I do not want to be distributed.
18:19:02  <planetmaker> ah, ok. We'll remove it then.
18:19:25  <George> planetmaker: Toyland2MarsW.grf & T2MarsBonusW.grf are a question for discussion.
18:19:42  <planetmaker> please license them. I like them :)
18:20:25  <planetmaker> they have some potential for improvement, but despite :)
18:20:39  <Sacro> George: they are not distributing it, you are
18:20:55  <Sacro> well, on that page anyway
18:21:00  <planetmaker> ^^yep
18:21:20  <George> And, of cause, I'd like to prevent distribution of LV1, LV2, LV3, LV33/4 and "New cargos for temperate" of cause
18:21:43  <Sacro> A good way of doing that would be to *never* post it online
18:22:52  <George> Sacro: Yes, but not for game servers. They are available for personal use by the players, but I dot want to go farther. They are too old even to speak about them.
18:22:56  <planetmaker> none of which is in the pack
18:23:26  <Sacro> George: so?
18:23:36  <planetmaker> george: the pack is downloaded by all kinds of people...
18:23:44  <planetmaker> I guess most use it for single player...
18:23:55  <Wolf01> George, you are right, but like the guy who posted his paints on his site and then blamed google because it indexed the paints, you can't do so much, internet is internet, once online you lose all the control
18:24:13  <Sacro> Wolf01: you have some control
18:24:20  <Sacro> but yes, basically once it's out then it's out
18:24:25  <frosch123> [19:25] <planetmaker> I guess most use it for single player... <- but fail to activate all grfs at once :p
18:24:36  <planetmaker> hehehe. Very much so.
18:24:51  <Ammler> Wolf01: he doesn't lose control about his grfs on the coop pack :-)
18:24:51  <planetmaker> You don't imagine how people complain - even server admins who should know better.
18:25:13  <George> planetmaker: Yes, you got the idea
18:25:16  <planetmaker> Actually the coop pack is the only means to travel back into time wrt grfs
18:26:09  <Wolf01> Ammler, but he lost the control on all other places
18:26:18  <planetmaker> george: The only thing which we can do - just like you - is keeping the _current_ grf pack up to date.
18:28:54  <planetmaker> which we actually did for now over two years.
18:29:04  <George> planetmaker: then I'd suggest (a point for discussion) to remove ECS alpha vectors too. CURRENT work is beta 5
18:29:36  <Ammler> George: where do you see alpha vectors?
18:29:40  <planetmaker> George: I don't understand. We don't have alpha!
18:30:27  <George> planetmaker: as for T2M - is there any body willing to provide more graphics for it? Also, it used original games graphics, what is the right way for licensing it?
18:30:48  <planetmaker> Original graphics cannot be licensed - I guess.
18:31:13  <planetmaker> But it's the same as the default grf files. So... and you modded it.
18:31:33  <George> planetmaker:  ECS: Basic vector for tropic alpha 1 	 ECSBasTrw.grf 	 Wiki 	 r43 	 George, Wile E. Coyote, Michael Blunck, AgRiG
18:31:35  <George>  ECS: Construction vector alpha 1 	 ECSConstw.grf 	 Wiki 	 r43 	 George, MHz, 447, Michael Blunck, AgRiG
18:31:37  <George>  ECS: Construction vector by Pikka alpha 1 	 ECSCPikkw.grf 	 Wiki 	 r43 	 Pikkabird, George
18:31:38  <planetmaker> Besides that I'm not into the grf maker scene that much that I know who wants to build what.
18:31:39  <George>  ECS: Machinery vector for tropic alpha 1 	 ECSMacTrw.grf 	 Wiki 	 r43 	 George, Michael Blunck, AgRiG
18:32:55  <planetmaker> eh... but they're unique, are they?
18:33:31  <Ammler> George: does those GRFs have new Versions?
18:33:52  <Ammler> or are they included in the "general" verctor now?
18:34:02  <George> planetmaker: So, the question for T2M is open. Ask lawyers about correct solution for this case. I suppose I can't specify it CC because the initial graphics is not CC
18:34:25  <planetmaker> You can talk about your contributions though - then it's our problem :P
18:34:49  <Sacro> George: stop spamming copy/paste
18:35:17  <planetmaker> Sacro: that was an answer. I appreciate that answer.
18:35:22  <Sacro> oh, alright, sorry
18:35:31  * Sacro reads the backlog and goes "ahh"
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18:46:02  <George> ECS: Basic vector for tropic alpha 1 - aborted
18:46:04  <George> ECS: Construction vector alpha 1 - beta 5 now
18:46:05  <George> ECS: Construction vector by Pikka alpha 1 - will be updated later
18:46:07  <George> ECS: Machinery vector for tropic alpha 1 - frozen for unlimeted time. may be aborted
18:46:39  <planetmaker> well... but they're playable, not?
18:47:18  <planetmaker> I see the point with the construction vector.
18:48:11  <planetmaker> actually... that is the wrong text. I updated it to beta 5, I'm sure.
18:48:31  <Ammler> src/string.cpp:70: char* strecpy(char*, const char*, const char*): Assertion `dst <= last' failed.
18:48:43  <glx> again?
18:48:52  <SmatZ> Ammler: newest revision?
18:48:56  <Ammler> no
18:49:00  <planetmaker> :P
18:49:04  <Ammler> update will fix it?
18:49:07  <planetmaker> yes
18:49:12  <Ammler> ok :-)
18:49:24  <SmatZ> should be fixed in r14564
18:49:46  <glx> SmatZ: you have an highlight on Assertion ?
18:49:55  <planetmaker> :)
18:49:59  <SmatZ> glx: :-) no
18:50:06  <SmatZ> good idea though
18:50:07  <planetmaker> it would fit, though ;)
18:51:41  <SmatZ> Assertion
18:52:04  * frosch123 wonders whether babyottd will ever create a context for "assertion" -> "already fixed"
18:52:13  <SmatZ> :-D
18:52:19  <SmatZ> hmm that sound I chose is empty
18:53:18  <SmatZ> hmm the problem is somewhere else, I need to install arts :-x
18:54:08  <frosch123> arn't notification sounds generally annoying?
18:54:11  <frosch123> +e
18:54:22  <SmatZ> I don't know, never used them
18:54:30  <George> planetmaker: george: The only thing which we can do - just like you - is keeping the _current_ grf pack up to date.
18:54:32  <George> _Current_ GRFs are beta 5 only
18:54:50  <planetmaker> well. But servers cannot update on a daily basis.
18:55:02  <planetmaker> You don't upgrade mid game.
18:55:22  <planetmaker> And beta5 (or a newer version) will be in the next release.
18:56:00  <George> They are beta 5 over a week
18:56:01  <George> BTW, beta 5 can be used instead of beta 4 in the savegames, they should work. Let me know if not ;)
18:56:38  <planetmaker> for a continuous upgrade you need automatic download.
18:56:50  <planetmaker> that's an idea, but yet not reality.
18:57:31  <planetmaker> you should allow a bit of time to spread around. It's also not really practical to update a whole grf pack for the update of two grfs.
18:58:34  <petern> automatic grf updates!
18:58:40  <planetmaker> yes :)
18:58:52  <planetmaker> well. download :P
18:59:00  <Ammler> petern: I see GRFPack 8 that way :P
18:59:01  <planetmaker> I still like the idea a lot
18:59:20  <Ammler> as of there is no pack anymore
18:59:36  <Ammler> just SpComb's nice patch :-)
19:04:10  <SpComb> yerwot
19:04:25  <SpComb> someone's talking in the future sense
19:08:18  <planetmaker> SpComb: got a linky for me to test?
19:08:50  <ln-> @seen Bjarni
19:08:50  <DorpsGek> ln-: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 2 days, 17 hours, 3 minutes, and 30 seconds ago: <Bjarni> goodnight (what's left of it anyway)
19:09:02  <SpComb> planetmaker:
19:09:34  <SpComb> planetmaker: there's no actually working patch, though, got stuck on integrating my code with OpenTTD's network code
19:10:09  <planetmaker> oh :( I hoped you'd have a provisional patch for that.
19:10:31  <SpComb> well, the code exists as a hg repo, although I haven't updated it for a while
19:10:42  <planetmaker> hm... is it online?
19:10:51  <SpComb>
19:10:56  <SpComb> three months stale
19:11:43  * planetmaker clones
19:12:04  <Ammler> SpComb: does the server still run?
19:12:40  <Ammler> I guess, we will create the repo with or without support of openttd
19:13:01  <SpComb> no, it was just a django development server
19:14:25  <Ammler> tools like windowsupdater or autostart can download the needed grfs before start...
19:14:52  <planetmaker> that'd even render void the need for releases.
19:15:10  <planetmaker> you could always start with the newest grfs. No long waiting for ISR 8 on the public server :)
19:15:16  <planetmaker> +0.
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19:15:30  <Ammler> planetmaker: yep, that is our main problem now.
19:15:43  <Ammler> and also of some grf authors like George
19:15:50  <planetmaker> yep
19:16:22  <planetmaker> but you cannot ask people to constantly stfw for new versions of their grf. It's a task which I don't relate to fun.
19:17:17  <planetmaker> hehe. We might give commit rights to some more active grf makers.
19:23:04  <davis-> what is more difficult , coding or pixeling?
19:26:21  <Rubidium> probably the pixeling; I haven't read stories about a monkey pixeling, but I've seen people claiming that their monkey wrote code
19:30:27  <Yexo> <- not exactly pixeling, but still :)
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19:31:37  <davis-> lol
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20:00:27  <rellig_xps> hi
20:00:43  <rellig_xps> how can i change the game speed on a runing dedicated server?
20:00:54  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:01:15  <petern> you can use 'pause' and 'unpause'
20:01:16  <Yexo> you can't
20:01:29  <rellig_xps> damn...
20:01:45  <rellig_xps> and how can i change the gamespeed before starting a map?
20:01:55  <Yexo> you can't either
20:02:25  <Yexo> unless you're playing with the daylength patch, but Im not sure that one works in multiplayer
20:03:01  <rellig_xps> gna...
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20:53:19  <fjb> Hello
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21:18:06  <Nite_Owl> Hello All
21:18:56  <fjb> Hi Nite_Owl
21:19:43  <fjb> Did something change in the network protocol? I'm only geeting ip numbers without server names.
21:22:09  <glx> master server only send IP and port
21:22:20  <glx> your client then query servers
21:22:37  <fjb> Hm, all servers appear offline.
21:22:49  <glx> you have a problem with UDP :)
21:23:01  *** welshdragon [~vista@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:23:50  <fjb> Usually not... strange. Did ports change?
21:28:38  <glx> port doesn't matter
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21:43:20  <BoneStorm> hi
21:44:29  <BoneStorm> is there an beginners quide covering the most basic game fundamentals, giving some tips and tricks what to do and what not?
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21:44:54  <Wolf01> wiki
21:45:35  <jrgcool35> anyone here good with ottd servers.
21:45:39  <BoneStorm> Wolf01: i browsed the playing sections and hadn't found the infos i am loking for
21:47:04  <jrgcool35> anyone?
21:47:47  <Wolf01> if you don't tell us what are you looking for we can't help you
21:48:33  <jrgcool35> well if nobody here knows anything, whats the point of asking.
21:48:47  <Belugas> BoneStorm, apart from the wiki, there is always the possibility to browse the forums
21:48:58  <BoneStorm> i am looking for a guide how to survive the first years
21:49:12  <jrgcool35> ok, well when I start the server the server automatically creates a company called unnamed, is there a command for the cfg that I could put in to change the company name?
21:50:40  <BoneStorm> which transport jobs are good right after the start
21:51:42  <Wolf01> BoneStorm, find a coal mine and a power plant at least 50 tiles away and build a single track between them, one little train with 4-6 wagons and you should be able to make enough money
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21:52:33  <jrgcool35> so nobody knows?
21:53:20  <BoneStorm> Wolf01: thank you very much this kind of game experience i am looking for, i will give it a shot maybe i am surviving more than a few years
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21:54:20  <Wolf01> I can repay all the borrow in 7 years with a good route and 2 trains
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21:55:05  <jrgcool35> thats interesting
21:55:16  <jrgcool35> the server doesn't create a player anymore
21:55:30  <Char2> BoneStorm: you can as well just join some game and watch for a few minutes
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21:55:54  <Char2> Wolf01: you should be able to repay in less than that
21:56:24  <Char2> unless you play with some weird options
21:56:29  <Wolf01> yes, one aircraft on a 2048 map in 2 years
21:56:38  <BoneStorm> Char2: is it possible to record a game and replay it?
21:56:48  <Char2> BoneStorm: dont think so
21:57:01  <Char2> if you can host a multiplayer game, i could show you some basics, though :P
21:57:10  <jrgcool35> You know what would be a very handy function when adding New GRFs to your list
21:57:14  <jrgcool35> a select All
21:57:17  <jrgcool35> function
21:57:21  <Char2> lol
21:57:55  <BoneStorm> Char2: i am too much a novice to host a game i think
21:58:11  <Char2> i guess i am behind some kind of router which would not allow hosting any game
21:58:15  <Char2> wait a second though
21:58:34  <BoneStorm> Char2: dont mind i had to get some sleep anyway
21:59:21  <BoneStorm> if i got more familar with openttd i can host it, have some servers around
22:00:03  <BoneStorm> gn8 @ all, thx for your time, tips and attention
22:00:35  <jrgcool35> another question
22:00:40  <jrgcool35> how do i change the map size
22:00:45  <jrgcool35> that my server generates
22:01:22  *** BoneStorm [~bone@] has left #openttd []
22:02:00  <dih> jrgcool35, 1. you cannot load _all_ grf's for one game
22:02:20  <dih> you should be stuck around 54
22:02:24  <dih> +-
22:02:36  <Rubidium> jrgcool35: <- map_x and map_y
22:02:41  <dih> 2. there are 2 config options, map_x and map_y
22:02:46  <dih> read
22:02:47  <jrgcool35> yea
22:02:50  <jrgcool35> they are 8 and 8
22:02:53  <dih> there are some great pages
22:03:03  <jrgcool35> i know i was looking through it
22:03:07  <jrgcool35> im finding nothing about servers
22:03:31  <dih> do you know the empty text field above the button named "search"
22:03:41  <jrgcool35> haha
22:03:49  <jrgcool35> i completely forgot that wiki pagese have those
22:04:03  <dih> + Rubidium just gave you a nice url
22:04:29  <jrgcool35> thanks a ton
22:04:36  <Rubidium> ofcourse there's also a
22:05:10  <dih> Rubidium, is there really no .htaccess file to get rid of the index.php? :-P
22:05:28  <dih> would be so much nicer :-P
22:05:42  <Rubidium> for further reference: that page can be found by going to the wiki -> Gameplay manual -> Multiplayer -> Server -> Dedicated server
22:05:53  <jrgcool35> thanks
22:06:45  <Rubidium> dih: probably, but ... a) it works, b) setting up the wiki took more than enough time already, c) never change a working system, d) don't know what to change
22:07:07  <dih> nothing - it's just some rewrite rules
22:07:22  <dih> should be in the docs of the wiki system you are using
22:07:38  <dih> should be a simple thing actually
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22:10:36  <Rubidium> dih: too bad things get very unsimple pretty soon
22:11:13  <dih> if you always look at things that way you should know that you then could ditch anything you ever wanted to do :-P
22:12:09  <jrgcool35> umm
22:12:17  <dih> mmu
22:12:24  <jrgcool35> one quick question that i cant seem to find in the wiki
22:12:35  <jrgcool35> the difficulty level of the server.
22:13:54  *** TinoDidriksen [] has quit [Quit:]
22:14:02  <Aali> jrgcool35: you could just generate the map from the gui and load the savegame on the server
22:14:16  <Rubidium> jrgcool35: what's the question?
22:14:30  <Aali> or copy the config file from a gui install
22:15:01  <jrgcool35> found it
22:15:10  <jrgcool35> i already did it
22:17:08  <jrgcool35> god i wish there was a select all function
22:17:11  <jrgcool35> for the GRFs
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22:19:59  <dih> jrgcool35, you cannot load that many anyway
22:20:06  <dih> + loading order is an issue
22:20:10  <dih> grf's are sensitive things
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22:22:03  <jrgcool35> yea
22:22:19  <jrgcool35> What are the most common
22:22:24  <jrgcool35> usually used on servers
22:22:26  <jrgcool35> O_o
22:22:29  <jrgcool35> nvm
22:22:34  <jrgcool35> I'll stop bothering you gys
22:22:45  <jrgcool35> 'cause i'll just ask my friend who runs a server
22:23:26  <Sacro> jrgcool35: there is no word length limit, please stop hitting enter when you'd normally breath in
22:23:48  <Sacro> tis like being with someone with asthma
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22:25:47  <jrgcool35> Ok, one final question that even my friend doesn't know.
22:26:33  <jrgcool35> How would I make the server, automatically create a company, with a certain name and password, because on this one Europe map scenario server they did that.
22:26:48  <Sacro> next grammer point, stop using so many commas
22:26:57  <jrgcool35> Ok sorry.
22:26:59  *** davis- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:27:00  <Sacro> :)
22:27:10  <dih> jrgcool35, you load a savegame that has an existing company?
22:27:15  <jrgcool35> ...
22:27:16  <Sacro> not sure how to do auto-company
22:27:21  <jrgcool35> :O
22:27:22  <dih> and there is no _most used_ grf's
22:27:32  <jrgcool35> I feel really dumb for asking that question.
22:27:45  <Wolf01> 'night
22:27:49  <dih> which one of the 2 you got answers for?
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22:28:01  <jrgcool35> the auto-company thing
22:28:05  <dih> hehe
22:28:09  <jrgcool35> lol
22:28:13  <Sacro> hehe there is
22:28:43  <dih> well - i thought it was worse asking for 'most common' grf's when there are hundres around and hundres of players and all have their own taste
22:28:50  <Sacro> I think i use "ls /data/standard/*grf | awk '{print }' >> openttd.cfg"
22:30:09  <dih> so you add your grf files with no parameters to the [version] section? :-D
22:30:15  <jrgcool35> I'm looking at the maps based on real world, and uhhh
22:30:39  <Rubidium> dih: there is no most common grf?
22:30:47  <jrgcool35> and I'm seeing this one map called Carst's Europe map, but it says you need four GRFs do I actually need them?
22:31:33  <dih> Rubidium, plural! refering to a certain setup
22:33:38  <Rubidium> dih, top 5: generic trams 0.4, TTRS 3.02a, newstations 0.42, av8 1.331 and newships (in that order)
22:35:42  <dih> nice
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22:36:00  <dih> well - then i was clearly in the wrong
22:36:09  <dih> jrgcool35, you now know the top 5 grfs :-P
22:36:42  <Rubidium> dih: what did you expect?
22:36:43  <dih> with a bit of generallized statements (and untrue ones) you can even get a dev to look those things up :-D
22:37:04  <dih> i did not expect anything
22:37:15  <dih> i forgot the stats
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22:37:55  <jrgcool35> umm
22:37:56  <jrgcool35> ok
22:38:59  <jrgcool35> umm
22:39:09  <jrgcool35> I hate when you forget what your gonna say
22:39:21  <jrgcool35> oh yea
22:39:25  <jrgcool35> Is there a code
22:39:26  <dih> you dont type until you remember it
22:39:34  <jrgcool35> to give a person money in single player
22:39:46  <Rubidium> wiki:cheat?
22:40:09  <Rubidium> as it's very unlikely you're running a debug binary
22:40:15  <planetmaker> Rubidium? Got a minute or two?
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22:40:29  <dih> jrgcool35: is there a tool to help someone find on the internet what he/she/it is looking for?
22:40:36  <jrgcool35> yes lol
22:40:46  <Rubidium> planetmaker: if you need minutes you should talk to Father Time
22:40:52  <planetmaker> :D
22:40:54  <jrgcool35> Ok i found the cheat but it gives no instructions how to do it
22:41:04  <dih> g
22:41:05  <dih> o
22:41:05  <dih> o
22:41:05  <planetmaker> he's very conservative, if it comes to loans
22:41:06  <dih> g
22:41:07  <dih> l
22:41:07  <dih> e
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22:41:24  <jrgcool35> Increases available money by £10,000,000. You can press it as many times as you like.
22:41:33  <jrgcool35> thats it no links no nothing
22:41:53  <Rubidium> jrgcool35: R E A D   T H E   W H O L E   P A G E
22:42:50  <planetmaker> Rubidium: or maybe tomorrow a few minutes, when maybe also dih is around?
22:43:22  <dih> like when i am not about to head to bed
22:43:27  <Rubidium> rather ask what you want to ask than asking when you may ask me...
22:43:38  <dih> it's a longer story
22:43:49  <Rubidium> ah bedtime story?
22:43:49  <planetmaker> we want to talk grfs
22:43:52  <dih> heck we have the 5 mins now
22:43:53  <planetmaker> yeah.
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22:45:38  <dih> Rubidium, would you mind joining us in the other channel?
22:46:42  <Rubidium> what's so important that it needs another channel?
22:47:57  <dih> look at it as private messages just from 2 sources :-P
22:47:57  <planetmaker> I don't want to stick a stick into an anthive in public
22:49:00  <Rubidium> but... there's 3 people there
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22:53:14  <rortom> hi all
22:54:19  <dih> JJ is just my bot - i drag it around wherever i go (normally)
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23:27:48  <Nite_Owl> Later all
23:27:51  *** Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
23:28:34  <Char2> whats wrong with nite_owl? if he (she?) is a night owl, he should be pretty much awake right now ;)
23:29:46  *** welshdragon [~vista@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:29:51  <dih> Char, how do you know what timezone he is in?
23:30:02  <Char2> no
23:30:33  <Char2> however, the timezone where it is 4AM right now would be something like moscow / abu dhabi or the like
23:30:58  <planetmaker> so?
23:30:59  <Char2> maybe also madagascar
23:31:04  <planetmaker> no
23:31:16  <Char2> hmmm
23:31:17  <Char2> well
23:31:24  <Char2> i think it is not likely that he is from there
23:31:25  <Char2> thats all
23:32:07  <Rubidium> I guess he's from Florida
23:32:14  <Char2> hmm
23:32:15  <Char2> well
23:32:16  <Char2> okay
23:32:30  <Char2> its .... 6:30PM there now?
23:32:33  <Char2> sth like that?
23:33:04  <Rubidium> depending on where in florida
23:33:18  <Char2> and maybe the sun has just gone down there... so he might be off hunting mice :P
23:33:51  <Char2> why is there two versions of me online?
23:34:06  *** stillunknown [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:35:08  <Rubidium> Char2: because you've got your IRC client opened twice?
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