Log for #openttd on 12th November 2008:
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01:05:47  <Antdovu> patch working :)
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04:59:14  <vraa> hello
04:59:40  <vraa> i am trying to get some AI's working in openttd, i am on mac os x 10.5, i have downloaded a nightly build, r14575. i created a dir called "ai" and put in a few .tar files
04:59:59  <Aali> you need a noai build for that
05:00:04  <vraa> i pushed "`" key and brought down console, i typed "list_ai" and it said back "Error: command or variable not found"
05:00:29  <Aali> noai is not in trunk yet, its a separate branch
05:00:43  <vraa>  <-- is that a proper place to download it from?
05:01:04  <Aali> that seems about right, yes
05:01:41  <vraa> okay thanks, let me test it out
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05:02:28  <vraa> excellent, where should i submit crash reports?
05:02:38  <vraa> i typed "start_ai wrightai" and it crashed
05:03:28  <Aali> what did it tell you? was it an assert?
05:03:31  <vraa> i just tried admiralai and it creashed again
05:03:43  <vraa> i am not sure, let me pastebin a crash log
05:04:25  <vraa>
05:06:08  <Aali> that looks like something you'd want to report as a bug, yes :)
05:06:21  <Aali>
05:06:21  <vraa> i'm not sure how to go about that process, do you guys use trac?
05:08:48  <vraa> do crashes on non-windows not product a crash.log and crash.dmp file?
05:09:02  <Aali> nope
05:11:40  <vraa> is it possible i am doing something else wrong? are all AI's broken with the NoAI build?
05:13:24  <Aali> its probably an OS X issue
05:13:29  <vraa> oh
05:13:35  <Aali> afaik, none of the devs have OS X to test on
05:13:39  <vraa> oh that sucks
05:13:53  <vraa> well, let me go to my desktop :(
05:14:11  <vraa>
05:16:25  <Aali> ah, its actually crashing in the freetype lib
05:16:36  <Aali> so you might want to look into that
05:16:48  <vraa> how did you find that out?
05:17:11  <Aali> FT_RoundFix is a freetype function ;)
05:24:09  <Aali> further investigation shows that SIGABRT is caused by OS X when its not able to find a library
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05:24:28  <Aali> so, you're probably just missing the freetype libs
05:25:01  <vraa> i am going to download and play on my windows computer instead
05:25:10  <vraa> if osx wants to be a crybaby, let it
05:30:58  <vraa> can i only run 1 AI at a time?
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06:45:01  <Eddi|zuHause> you can run 1 AI per AI player
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09:11:23  <planetmaker> [06:16]	<Aali>	afaik, none of the devs have OS X to test on <--- untrue.
09:11:42  <planetmaker> and good morning #openttd :)
09:16:37  <Rubidium> oh... if someone wants to 'quote' me, then 'quote' me and don't guess what I might have said
09:20:38  <petern> hmm?
09:21:25  <Rubidium> petern: looks very much like something I said, but it misses a few nuances
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09:34:36  <Aali> planetmaker: hence the "afaik", i was not sure of that :)
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09:41:06  <planetmaker> Aali: how else should they provide OS-X binaries?
09:41:30  <planetmaker> @seen Bjarni
09:41:30  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 12 hours, 13 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
09:43:47  <petern> you don't need OS X to provide OS X binaries
09:43:59  <petern> i can't remember the last time bjarni actually tested something ;)
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09:45:29  <planetmaker> petern: I know, and I know you don't produce them this way. But to properly support it, it usually requires one dev to have that operating system - at least for the OS-specific issues.
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09:55:14  <petern> planetmaker, not really, it just needs someone to test.
09:55:36  <planetmaker> hm... yeah. But way easier, if the person to test it, is yourself.
09:55:55  <planetmaker> (= the person who writes the patch)
09:57:04  * petern ponders resyncing railtypes.hg
09:57:12  <planetmaker> :)
09:57:20  <petern> hmm, only 44 changesets
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10:01:14  <fonso> I still think that diagonal levelling is very useful, especially for large maps where you might want to lay long stretches of diagonal rail. Still, no one has commented. See FS#2320 and FS#730
10:03:41  * davis-- hi
10:04:43  <Antdovu> why was it rejected?
10:04:44  <planetmaker> petern: jumping onto the trains with 'look at this patch': maybe you want to re-consider the newgrf-gui :)
10:05:19  <planetmaker> last thing I did was fixing the one-off error and updating it. But as far as I'm aware it still applies smoothyl to current trunk.
10:05:53  <fonso> No one rejected the diagonal levelling patch. At least I haven't heard of it.
10:06:26  <fonso> It seems I just can't get anyone to take a look at it.
10:07:12  <planetmaker> no comment != no look :)
10:07:20  <Antdovu> all the devs are busy learning macedonian ;)
10:07:38  <fonso> so what should I do? It has been around for some months now.
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10:08:56  <Antdovu> unfortunately I have no idea, I started with patches just a few days ago
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10:17:33  <Aali> diagonal levelling can wait, i really want to see newgrf-gui in trunk, though
10:18:22  <Aali> its so much better than the old gui
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10:23:34  <Antdovu> how do they conflict?
10:24:10  <Aali> they take up devs precious time ;)
10:24:24  <planetmaker> :)
10:26:52  <Antdovu> by the way, I managed to make my company info save/load patch (almost) fully functional
10:33:26  <Antdovu> should it save the company password?
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10:37:29  <davis-> hm
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10:43:12  <Antdovu> Yexo: should saving company info also save the password?
10:44:25  <Yexo> I don't think so
10:44:31  <Yexo> besides, you can already set a default password
10:45:04  <Yexo> is it even possible to save the password?
10:45:38  <Antdovu> I could always capture it when the user finishes typing it :P
10:45:53  <Antdovu> not sure otherwise
10:45:57  <Yexo> that is certainly a bad idea
10:46:11  <Antdovu> yeah, would be a bit of a hack...
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10:52:24  <Yexo> livery[i].colour1 = t1; <- I suggest you call a DoCommand that does the same, because this won't work in multiplayer
10:53:29  <Antdovu> that is a local variable
10:53:49  <Antdovu> I load &verify the file before docommandp
10:54:17  <Yexo> ah, I see
10:57:38  <Antdovu> any other possibly bad parts?
10:57:47  <Yexo> not that I see
10:57:54  <Yexo> looks like a nice patch
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10:59:42  <Antdovu> well, it would probably have to get rid of sstream, fstream & string usage, wouldn't it?
10:59:56  <Yexo> yeah, that would be best
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11:00:42  <Antdovu> fortunately that wouldn't be too difficult
11:01:03  <Antdovu> what about the general file format it uses for saving?
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11:28:24  <Yexo> SmatZ: Why did you move FS#2404 to NoAI? The report is also valid for trunk
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12:48:51  <huset> morning.
12:48:55  *** huset is now known as china
12:49:02  <china> i think i have a simple one
12:49:29  <china> i use the same trucks for oil as for fuel oil, right?
12:50:07  <Yexo> that depends on the newgrf you use, but most probably yes
12:50:13  <china> oh, ok.
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12:51:11  <china> it doesnt seem to work. :3
12:51:38  <Yexo> did you refit the truck? What vehicle newgrf are you using?
12:51:47  <china> oh, i have to refit it? :o
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12:51:57  <Yexo> yep
12:52:30  <china> but when its in the depot, i cant click the refit button
12:53:03  <Yexo> again, what vehicle newgrf are you using? ie are you sure the truck is refittable to fuel oil?
12:53:13  <china> let's see
12:53:24  <china> (im new to this, hold on)
12:54:03  <china> ottdc_grfpack_7.2.tar.bz2
12:54:08  <china> could that the be right answer? :3
12:54:17  <Yexo> that is a pack that contains a lot of newgrfs
12:54:38  <china> oh, ok.
12:54:48  <china> when i open the newgrf setting, i have alot of them added.
12:54:51  <Yexo> in game, the 3rd button of the main toolbar, there is "NewGRF settings" under there
12:54:52  <Yexo> try that
12:55:05  <Yexo> what openttd version are you using?
12:55:11  <Yexo> 0.6.3 or a nightly?
12:55:14  <china> 0.6.3
12:55:24  <Yexo> what truck are you trying to refit?
12:55:34  <china> volvo oil tanker
12:55:37  <china> to fuel oil.
12:57:44  * china has no idea.
12:57:51  <Yexo> what industry newgrf are you using?
12:58:12  <china> i can see that under the newgrf setting, right?
12:58:24  <Yexo> yes
12:58:31  <Yexo> I suspect Pikka basic industries, is that correct?
12:58:40  <china> yes
12:58:44  <china> v1.311
12:59:36  <Yexo> can you try starting a new game with only PBS and LV4 loaded?
12:59:44  <Yexo> the volvo is refitteble to fuel oil here
13:00:02  <Yexo> btw, can you refit the volvo to other cargo types or not at all?
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13:00:17  <china> not at al
13:00:19  <china> all*
13:00:32  <Yexo> and you are sure it is stopped in the depot?
13:00:50  <china> how does one start a single game (i have a multiplayer server up right now) with only pbs and lv4? :<
13:00:53  <china> let's see.
13:01:04  <Yexo> go to the main menu, and remove all other newgrfs there
13:01:06  <china> yep, it's even telling me its waiting in depoo.
13:01:08  <Yexo> then start a singleplayer game
13:02:02  <Yexo> <- and you are using the correct button?
13:02:09  <china> in a singleplayer game, i cant change it either.
13:02:19  <china> yep
13:02:22  <china> it's faded
13:03:34  <china> i applyed pikkas durig the single player game, and it still didnt work.
13:03:54  <china> +n
13:04:01  <Yexo> you should never change newgrfs during a game, that can give all kinds of probolems
13:04:58  <china> oh, ok.
13:05:58  <Yexo> I have no idea what your problem can be, as it works here
13:06:17  <china> ok
13:06:18  <china> well
13:06:22  <china> the server as it is works
13:06:25  <china> so i guess ill leave it
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13:10:44  <china> i just recently realized that i could use my old server for openttd
13:10:47  <china> and its awesome.
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13:12:38  * china love trucks
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13:29:43  <Brianetta> trucks
13:29:49  <Brianetta> I find them hard to like
13:29:55  <Brianetta> mainly because I dislike them IRL
13:32:13  <china> :)
13:32:18  <china> well
13:32:32  <china> its something special with filling a map with thousand of them
13:33:19  <china> tho, i remember when i played singleplayer some year ago
13:33:38  <china> and built train connection on every single industry on a 2048^2 map
13:33:53  <china> and played in hi-speed, and the map looked like a cpu. :P
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13:40:46  <xerxesdaphat> anybody familiar with the new conditional order jumps?
13:43:08  <china> Yexo: i just got a tonne of problem
13:43:20  <china> the place that im leaving oil at is maxing, and i cant send it away :<
13:43:25  <china> no it doesnt accept oil no more
13:43:28  <china> noooooo
13:43:32  * china screams
13:43:51  <Yexo> then send your oil to another industry
13:44:05  <Yexo> xerxesdaphat: what do you want to know?
13:44:49  <china> aha
13:44:54  <china> now i know
13:45:05  <china> some veichles doesnt support refitting
13:45:08  <china> i solved it
13:45:09  <china> whohoo!
13:45:40  <xerxesdaphat> Yexo: having a little trouble understanding how it's supposed to work
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13:45:53  <xerxesdaphat> i've got a little shunter train taking coal and dropping it off for transfer
13:46:33  <xerxesdaphat> the behaviour i want is for it to wait until there's more than 50% full, then skip to the next order where it leaves the station and transfers the coal
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13:46:56  <Yexo> currently that is not possible
13:47:03  <xerxesdaphat> ah ok
13:47:07  <Yexo> conditional orders are only checked after the current order is done
13:47:08  <xerxesdaphat> how is it intended to be used?
13:47:26  <xerxesdaphat> i found pretty scant information on teh wiki (expected, considering it's so new)
13:48:10  <Yexo> <- nice article explaining one of the possible uses
13:48:30  <arachnid> You could make it do an ordinary 'load', and loop until it's >50% full. :P
13:48:48  <xerxesdaphat> hmm
13:49:14  <Eddi|zuHause> imho, the behaviour should be changed, that when, after processing conditional orders, you end up at the same order, the train should not start
13:49:43  <arachnid> Eddi|zuHause: That would be an improvement. In fact, why restrict it to only conditional orders?
13:49:45  <Eddi|zuHause> arachnid: that will not work, as the train will leave the station after each load operation, and then has to turn back
13:49:57  <arachnid> Eddi|zuHause: That's what I was suggesting. :P
13:50:07  <arachnid> I didn't say it was a _good_ idea.
13:50:20  <arachnid> Although I'm not positive it's a bad one.
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13:53:00  <xerxesdaphat> haha
13:53:10  <xerxesdaphat> now the silly thing is popping in and out of a depot at lightspeed
13:54:30  <Brianetta> Is there some kind of rule that all news articles placed on the fornt page must contain the word "today"?
13:55:10  <xerxesdaphat> Brianetta: the admin has his mail feed piped through a grep/awk filter which scans for the word `Today'
13:55:18  <xerxesdaphat> he hasn't upgraded to gmail's labels yet
13:56:05  <china> oh shoot
13:56:49  <china> "Production last month: 835,000 litres of fuel oil (16% transported)"
13:56:55  <china> maybe it's time for a new train.
13:56:56  <china> ..
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14:03:31  <china> what kind of industry takes on plastic?
14:03:33  <china> never seen it before.
14:07:40  <Swallow> You're using PBI?
14:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> the factory in that case
14:09:07  <Eddi|zuHause> steel, plastic and lumber, i believe
14:10:54  <china> oh, ok.
14:12:59  <ln-> what a useful spanish course on youtube, "El techo está aislado con fibra de vidrio.", "Muchos metales están en la tabla periódica."
14:13:27  <china> :D
14:17:39  <ln-> "Superman es el hombre de acero."
14:19:33  <keyweed> very useful phrase. you never know when you run into superman
14:20:39  <ln-> or when you need to discuss about the insulation of the roof.
14:21:21  <arachnid> So, are any ottd devs around to give me a hint on where to start looking if I want to write a tool that loads a savefile and generates a (max. zoom) image of the whole map (then quits)?
14:21:33  <arachnid> I'm sure I'll find the necessary bits eventually, but a hint would be really nice. :)
14:24:30  <davis-> poke some of the @
14:25:50  * arachnid pokes Belugas DorpsGek orudge petern ru
14:25:53  <arachnid> er, Rubidium
14:25:59  <arachnid> How's that? :P
14:26:32  <Belugas> mmh?
14:26:47  <davis-> :o
14:26:53  <arachnid> < arachnid> So, are any ottd devs around to give me a hint on where to start looking if I want to write a tool that loads a savefile and generates a (max. zoom) image of the whole map (then quits)?
14:27:00  <arachnid> < arachnid> I'm sure I'll find the necessary bits eventually, but a hint would be really nice. :)
14:27:00  <keyweed> now you've done it. you woke a dev
14:27:03  * keyweed hides.
14:27:14  <arachnid> keyweed: Indeed. Avenge me if I perish.
14:28:56  <davis-> and the dev fell asleep again
14:29:01  <arachnid> :/
14:29:07  <Belugas> frankly, i am not in the mood of teaching the internals of the game, for starters
14:29:24  <Belugas> then, add to the fact i'm quite buzy working at work,
14:29:30  <arachnid> I don't require a tutorial - I was just hoping for a pointer.
14:29:39  <Belugas> makes it really hard for me to help you
14:29:40  <arachnid> Even finding main() in the source is enough of a pain.
14:30:02  <planetmaker> openttd.cpp
14:30:10  * Belugas would check the files baring the name of the section you want to work on
14:30:49  <arachnid> planetmaker: Just found that, actually. I presume ttd_main is called by some bootstrap infrastructure somewhere.
14:31:12  <arachnid> Belugas: It's not really a specific section, though. Never mind.
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14:31:56  <planetmaker> arachnid: depends upon what you want to do. If you want to get the minimap you might want to search for exactly that: grep -Ri "minimap" *
14:32:15  <arachnid> Not the minimap - I want to render the real map.
14:32:18  <planetmaker> otherwise search e.g. for screenshot.
14:32:38  <planetmaker> (just random guesses)
14:32:49  <arachnid> I doubt any existing screenshot functionality will be especially helpful - I want to write a standalone tool that loads a savegame and renders the entire thing at the point the game was saved
14:33:01  <arachnid> But at least I can follow things through from ttd_main
14:33:11  <planetmaker> I don't say you should use that procedure. But those might tell you exactly what you need to know.
14:33:19  <Belugas> gosh... that would not be just a simple tool...
14:33:23  <arachnid> What would you suggest?
14:33:54  <Belugas> you need to know the map array, you need to know the grf loading, the rendering etc etc...
14:33:59  <arachnid> Belugas: Depends how the source is structured - hence my question. In principle, it could be as simple as instantiating a 'game' instance of some sort, telling it to load a save, then asking it to render a given region. But I don't know how the source is structured
14:34:00  <Belugas> have fun!
14:34:08  <planetmaker> a wrapper for a stripped-down or command-line driven Openttd which just outputs an image file - a screenshot
14:34:12  <arachnid> Isn't the point of encapsulation to abstract that?
14:34:34  <arachnid> planetmaker: That's more or less what I'm talking about - using ottd source, just not a full ottd client.
14:34:46  <Belugas> hint hint hint -> OpenTTD is only recently been added a C++ layer
14:34:52  <Belugas> mostly, it is a C code app
14:35:01  <arachnid> Fine with me. You can have encapsulation without OO :)
14:35:09  <planetmaker> well. But it wouldn't hurt to just take the client, add a command line parameter and then use that to open a specific save and dump a screen shot.
14:35:15  <Rubidium> openttd -g <savegame> and an a script with screenshot\nquit ?
14:35:28  <planetmaker> something like that ^^ :)
14:35:32  <Rubidium> maybe with screento <location>
14:36:05  <arachnid> And I can script that in a manner that captures the entire map?
14:36:06  * Rubidium notes that any of the before mentioned console commands could be ficticious
14:36:58  <Rubidium> oh, the whole map
14:37:01  <Rubidium> that's even easier
14:37:07  <Rubidium> no need to scroll, just screenshot big
14:37:07  <arachnid> Glad to hear it. How? :)
14:37:24  <arachnid> okay
14:37:37  <arachnid> I'm certainly not adverse to a solution that doesn't require any coding. ;)
14:37:44  <arachnid> s/adverse/averse/
14:39:59  <planetmaker> arachnid: you could 'just' add a command line option like --giant-screen which calls the giant screen proc and exits the game.
14:39:59  <arachnid> planetmaker: Is it possible to pass a script of console commands from the command line already?
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14:40:18  <arachnid> hm, slight problem with this, of course, is that it's liable to have issues running on a server, unless I want to run an X server just to keep it happy.
14:40:28  <Rubidium> arachnid: not from the console
14:41:55  <arachnid> Okay. Guess coding is inevitable, then.
14:41:55  <Rubidium> though... in scripts a on_dedicated.scr with screenshot big <newline> quit
14:41:55  <Rubidium> and then openttd -g <savegame -D
14:41:55  <arachnid> hm, okay
14:41:55  <SpComb^> hmm, dedicated server screenshots?
14:41:55  <arachnid> And that ought to avoid the headless issue, too
14:42:21  * Rubidium again notes that it might not work; have no way of actually testing it right now
14:43:33  <arachnid> Still, something to try. Thanks. :)
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14:50:40  <petern> urghel
14:50:46  <SpComb> the OpenTTD code doesn't really abstract very much away
14:51:21  <SpComb> but you can build it with SDL, run a dedicated server, enable the blitter on the command line, and then use the screenshot command
14:53:51  <arachnid> SpComb: Do you know if Rubidium's suggestion will work?
14:54:06  <arachnid> And if so, where does OTTD look for the 'scripts' directory?
14:54:14  <arachnid> It doesn't appear to exist by default.
14:54:22  <SpComb> never touched any OpenTTD scripts
14:55:15  <arachnid> And when you say "enable the blitter on the command line", do you mean the ottd command line, or the OS command line?
14:56:50  <SpComb> OpenTTD
14:56:59  <SpComb> the dedicated server normally runs a null blitter
14:57:12  <arachnid> I see
14:57:21  <arachnid> Do you know what the command is to enable the blitter?
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14:58:04  <SpComb> no, look at --help
15:04:19  <arachnid> Hm. Any idea where ottd puts its screenshots by default? :)
15:05:21  <arachnid> Everything seems to go fine except I can't find it.
15:08:39  <davis-> uhm
15:08:43  <china> in the new openttd (0.6.3) with PBI and all that.
15:09:01  <china> can i use the power station more then shipping coal to it?
15:09:02  <china> :<
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15:11:48  <arachnid> Hm. So the script runs, I get no error message, but I can't find a screenshot anywhere, either
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15:23:50  <arachnid> Bah :/
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15:28:02  <Eddi|zuHause> arachnid: in ~/.openttd or in My Documents\OpenTTD
15:28:23  <arachnid> Hm, nothing in ~/.openttd, either
15:28:30  <Eddi|zuHause> alternatively, wherever it finds the .cfg
15:29:20  <arachnid> Hm. If I insert printfs in MakeScreenshot, they never even get called.
15:31:07  <arachnid> Ditto if I run it in gdb and set a breakpoint on MakeScreenshot
15:34:12  <SpComb> set a breakpoint in console_cmds then
15:34:33  <arachnid> Looking at the code in screenshot.cpp, I'm guessing it doesn't get a chance to draw before the 'quit' command is run
15:35:19  <arachnid> Hah. Now it segfaults. :P
15:35:52  <arachnid> In Blitter_32bppOptimized::Draw
15:44:21  <arachnid> Line 166 of 32bpp_optimized.cpp, not that that tells me much since all the locals have been optimised away
15:44:34  <arachnid> I'm guessing it's trying to draw to something that doesn't exist due to the dedicated server thing
15:51:01  <SmatZ> arachnid: a crash in clan trunk?
15:52:33  <SmatZ> arachnid: the output buffer is probably too small, or you have incorrectly set width,height or pitch
15:52:51  <SmatZ> size of buffer has to be at least height * pitch * 4 (for 32bpp blitters)
15:53:11  <arachnid> I'm not modifying the source in any way
15:53:19  <arachnid> Just telling it to screenshot when using the 'dedicated' video driver
15:53:56  <arachnid> Just compiled in SDL support, but now it complains it can't find a video device when starting up. Not sure if it's possible to start it using SDL without trying to use a video device.
15:54:06  <SmatZ> I guess the video driver hasn't been initialized, the spriteloader doesn't know you are using 32bpp blitter, or whatever :)
15:54:12  <arachnid> yeah :/
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15:54:25  <SmatZ> SDL_VIDEODRIVER=aalib bin/openttd
15:54:26  <SmatZ> or so :)
15:54:42  <Aali> damn highlight :(
15:54:49  <arachnid> Doesn't seem to change anything
15:55:39  <arachnid> But thanks for the place to start looking :)
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16:00:12  * arachnid recompiles with aalib support
16:00:32  <Aali> oh come on, did you have to say that?
16:00:45  <arachnid> heh
16:00:49  <Aali> :P
16:00:56  <arachnid> If sdl had a 'null' driver option, I'd happily use that
16:01:18  <Aali> guess i should change that highlight rule to match whole words only
16:01:51  <Aali> arachnid: chances are, with a null driver you wont be able to get a screenshot anyway
16:02:21  <arachnid> Aali: Well, I'm hoping I dont' get an ascii art screenshot with the aalib driver
16:02:25  <arachnid> I suspect it only affects the output
16:02:28  <Aali> heh
16:02:37  <arachnid> As opposed to the ttd null driver, which causes the aforementioned segfault. :)
16:02:38  <Aali> IIRC, its just a filter
16:02:53  <arachnid> Oh dear lord. I now have a running aalib version of openttd
16:02:56  <Aali> as in, its applied after all drawing is done
16:03:02  <arachnid> yeah
16:03:20  <petern> it's not very playable
16:03:23  <arachnid> (And yeah, it just looks like random dots and dashes
16:03:24  <petern> even with a very large terminal
16:04:08  <arachnid> indeed
16:04:54  <arachnid> And still no sign of my screenshot
16:06:40  <arachnid> :(
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16:07:14  <SmatZ> [16:54:51] <Aali> damn highlight :( <== :-D
16:08:27  <Yexo> SmatZ: can you move FS#2404 back to trunk?
16:08:29  <Aali> awesome..
16:09:21  <arachnid> In fact, I don't get a screenshot even if I ask for one in the dedicated console
16:09:36  <SmatZ> Yexo: why?
16:09:47  <Yexo> because it's not specific for NoAI
16:10:12  <glx> arachnid: did you specified a blitter?
16:10:30  <arachnid> glx: yup
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16:17:11  <SmatZ> arachnid: I can't reproduce the crash... "bin/openttd -D -b 32bpp-optimized", screenshot, no crash
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16:18:09  <arachnid> What renderer are you using, though?
16:19:15  <SmatZ> arachnid: -D implies -v dedicated I think
16:19:36  <arachnid> Hm
16:19:41  <arachnid> Where does it put the screenshot
16:19:51  <SmatZ> in ~/.openttd/
16:19:53  <arachnid> I'm running the same command and getting no output I can find anywhere
16:19:55  <arachnid> :(
16:21:09  <SmatZ> arachnid: reading readme.txt could help you, too
16:22:27  <arachnid> Specifically?
16:24:07  <SmatZ> 4.2) OpenTTD directories
16:24:32  <arachnid> I know _about_ ~/.openttd (though note that section is only talking about where it finds .grf etc files)
16:26:23  * Belugas would try running the game with the gui and request a screenshot, see if does produce one at the expected locations
16:26:34  <Belugas> just in case...
16:26:35  <arachnid> I'm doing all this on a headless server. :)
16:27:57  <Belugas> Headless chickens
16:28:07  <Belugas> Dance in Circles,
16:28:15  <Belugas> THEY THE BLESSED!
16:28:34  <Belugas> Mand and wife,
16:28:41  <Belugas> undressed by all
16:28:49  <Belugas> They grafted trunks
16:29:02  <Belugas> in heat posseesssessssesesesed
16:31:46  <Qball> ?
16:33:23  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i do think he is possessed ;)
16:34:06  <Qball> Can I poke him?
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16:34:42  <Belugas> naaaa... it's the music...  it has rhytm... the rythm of the heat!  hem... no, actually, it's family and the fishing net...
16:34:57  <Qball> Belugas: you are in heat?
16:35:48  <Belugas> no
16:35:56  <Belugas> the rythm is heat
16:36:01  <Qball> just checking
16:39:01  <arachnid> Hah
16:39:09  <arachnid> Now I can get a screenshot, but it's always of nothing but ocean.
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16:40:07  <arachnid> If I ask for a standard (instead of big) screenshot, I get this:
16:40:12  <arachnid> Despite passing -g (savegame)
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16:41:35  <glx> full of ocean could mean loading failed
16:43:35  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. compiled without zlib support
16:43:50  <arachnid> I was initially trying with Tutorial.sav
16:43:57  <Eddi|zuHause> or wrong savegame version
16:44:51  * arachnid reconfigures and recompiles with explicit --with-zlib
16:46:12  <Eddi|zuHause> starting with -d 3 could tell you more about what's going on ;)
16:46:28  <arachnid> Except that aalib overwrites everything in the terminal
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16:50:00  <arachnid> Ah, logs go to stderr. :)
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16:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> i figure that aalib cannot recognise the graphical text properly, so everything is unreadable ;)
16:53:24  <arachnid> heh
16:53:27  <arachnid> yup
16:53:48  <arachnid> I think it's actually just taking the screenshot before it loads stuff
16:53:58  <arachnid> Because the logs say the save loads fine, and include stuff about vehicle routing
16:54:07  <arachnid> And the aalib output differs depending on what savefile I load
16:55:00  <arachnid> But there's no 'sleep' console command (at least, not a documented one)
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16:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, could you try putting the load command in the script?
16:58:45  <Eddi|zuHause> or just writing the screenshot command in the console after you loaded the game?
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17:04:34  <nicfer> one question, will be removed the realistic train aceleration?
17:05:11  <petern> try phrasing that in english
17:05:45  <benjamingoodger> petern: don't be cruel
17:12:51  <china> how many veichles does openttd support?
17:14:56  <FauxFaux> Thousands.
17:15:26  <benjamingoodger> design
17:15:44  <benjamingoodger> in practise it is limited by your computer's memory and CPU, particularly for trains
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17:16:20  <china> i have 2600 trucks now
17:16:22  <FauxFaux> I believe I've been in a game with a thousand trains before.
17:16:23  <FauxFaux> <3
17:16:25  <china> and i dont want it to end. :)
17:16:35  <FauxFaux> Iirc something is limited at 5000.
17:16:41  <china> oh, ok
17:17:01  <china> im really surprised that my old p3 server does the huge maps without any trouble
17:17:01  <benjamingoodger> is it a binary power?
17:17:31  <china> and im starting on the zellepiners
17:17:34  <china> zeppeliners*
17:18:07  * china sends gigatons of coal
17:18:23  <china> the funny thing is, the game is starting to get very realistic money-wise
17:18:36  <benjamingoodger> oh?
17:18:44  <china> i used to work with higher impoexpo treatys, and i can see the connection. ;)
17:19:07  <benjamingoodger> ah
17:19:52  <nicfer> more than 9000?
17:21:02  <benjamingoodger> that's "petagrams" btw :P
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17:22:39  <Eddi|zuHause> china: i believe the limit is 5000 vehicles per type (truck, train, aircraft, ship)
17:22:41  <SmatZ> nicfer: no, it won't be removed. Why should it?
17:23:05  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: because it uses the dreaded r-word :p
17:23:14  <SmatZ> ah... so a joke :)
17:24:28  <china> ok
17:24:31  <china> the zeppeliners sucked
17:24:36  <china> they cant go +
17:24:36  <china> :<
17:25:03  <china> they loose 40.000 on the little way to the coal mine, and get payed in hald.
17:25:05  <china> -d+f
17:25:55  <china> make that 90.000
17:26:35  <benjamingoodger> hmm
17:26:43  <benjamingoodger> I think they're more for passengers :)
17:26:53  <gregor> is it possible to cheat on ottd, e.g. getting much money?
17:27:25  <china> benjamingoodger: well, there is a modell thats exclusively for coal
17:27:44  <benjamingoodger> gregor: press ctrl-alt-c and read it thoroughly
17:27:47  <china> tho refittable to all but passengers
17:27:59  <benjamingoodger> unfortunately it comes only in £10,000,000 amounts
17:28:05  <nicfer> SmatZ: because it's... *realistic*
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17:28:39  <benjamingoodger> china: ah.... I've not done a great deal with air in ttd. I can't seem to make the buggers turn a profit
17:29:14  <china> same here
17:29:18  <china> :<
17:30:05  <benjamingoodger> it should be renamed "train tycoon deluxe"
17:30:38  <nicfer> well, the best option would be to let newgrf designers define the acceleration
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17:31:38  <benjamingoodger> nicfer: the best option is to let designers specify the properties of their engines and allow the system to do it for them
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17:40:57  <gregor> Also possible to build many vehicles at one time?
17:41:42  <Belugas> no. one at a time, only
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18:23:36  <Wolf01> hello
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19:01:44  <ln-> end of discussion
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19:06:30  <ln-> Wolf01: do you need to say 'night every time you leave?
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19:07:45  <Wolf01> I'm used to greet when I enter or leave a channel, and 'night stays for good night
19:07:55  <dihedral> ln-: some people have the politeness to
19:08:12  <dihedral> and if it are people who actually hang around here more often, it's quite nice
19:08:22  <dihedral> shows a social side ;-)
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19:08:51  <ln-> dihedral: but if everyone did that, it would generate a lot of noise.
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19:09:38  <ln-> i mean, if everyone did that every time they join or leave.
19:09:41  <dihedral> ln- if you comment each time it's more annoying than Wolf01 greeting
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19:10:44  <ln-> i'm an annoying person.
19:11:21  <Aali> well, this not an off-topic channel, idle conversation does not belong here (technically)
19:11:28  <Aali> *this is
19:12:28  <Aali> and announcing your arrival/departure is usually not okay on IRC anyways
19:12:56  <dihedral> Aali, it depends who and where
19:13:02  <Aali> and how :)
19:13:09  <dihedral> i.e. if yorick does it, it's not ok
19:13:21  <Aali> automated scripts are lame
19:13:26  <glx> but it's yorick ;)
19:13:28  <dihedral> it's not automated
19:13:32  <Aali> i know
19:13:38  <Antdovu> this message is automated
19:13:46  <ln-> politeness is fine, but when exactly the same strings are used each and every time, it's more like an automated reflex than a polite greeting.
19:13:47  <dihedral> and when Wolf01 does it... heck - he's been around for a long time
19:13:58  <Aali> if it had been, it wouldn't be in a grey area
19:14:10  <Aali> but i say it is, and we should allow it :P
19:14:13  <dihedral> and ln- constantly having nothing better to say than all his wining about that someone is doing something that does not match his liking....
19:14:26  <dihedral> that is more annoying than Wolf01's tendency to greet
19:15:18  <Belugas> FAR MORE
19:15:30  <Belugas> farth more
19:16:07  <ln-> hell
19:16:09  <ln-> o
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19:17:47  <ln-> may i add that i have absolutely nothing else to complain about things Wolf01 has done or said.
19:18:13  <dihedral> you should have less to moan about in general :-P
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19:18:38  <dihedral> to me the nick 'ln' does not represent anything else than complaints and unhelpful chatter
19:18:38  <Belugas> dih: empty barrels are the loudest ;)
19:18:50  <dihedral> :-P
19:19:04  <Belugas> to me, the nick ln is on ignore. and life is sweet and kind
19:19:23  *** ln- is now known as ln
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19:19:53  <ln> dihedral: thanks, i appreciate that.
19:20:54  <dihedral> ln: that was a subtle hint - you might wanna work on your attitude :-P
19:21:14  <dihedral> and if your attitude is a lot brighter generally, then you might want to share that with us :-P
19:21:27  * dihedral give ln a hug :-P
19:22:13  <ccfreak2k> Hey
19:22:19  <ccfreak2k> I just thought I'd tell you guys that I'm here.
19:22:28  <ccfreak2k> And that I'm going to go to other channels now.
19:22:42  <Antdovu> can't handle a little man love?
19:23:04  <ln> dihedral: my attitude is far from perfect in general, too, but over here it's shaped by the fact that nothing on-topic i say makes any difference.
19:23:07  <dihedral> ccfreak2k, now you just do that to annoy people, and that is not fun
19:23:10  <dihedral> nor genuine
19:23:12  <ccfreak2k> It is for me.
19:23:21  <ln> ccfreak2k: thank you for letting us know. see you soon again!
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19:25:19  <ln> hello
19:27:01  * benjamingoodger rejoins conversation
19:27:14  <benjamingoodger> *blink*
19:27:19  * ln welcomes benjamingoodger back to conversation
19:27:53  <benjamingoodger> why, thank you, ln! how polite. if more people were that polite, we'd all be better off
19:29:04  <benjamingoodger> hmm
19:29:20  <ln> we sure would!  now, would you like to have a cup of tea?
19:29:23  * dihedral extends his ignorelist a little :-P
19:29:31  <benjamingoodger> reading up at the top, it really irritates me when people to tell me I have an attitude problem
19:29:49  <Antdovu> ln: what about biscuits?
19:29:54  <benjamingoodger> what they're actually saying is that they dislike my personality, and would like me to change it, rather than just learning to tolerate it
19:29:54  <dihedral> benjamingoodger, nobody's even talking to you!
19:30:03  <dihedral> at least not up there
19:30:14  <benjamingoodger> dihedral: I'm "sympathising"
19:30:26  <benjamingoodger> it's a new concept I have been introduced to recently, that I am trialling
19:30:37  <dihedral> lol
19:31:41  <benjamingoodger> ln: I apologise for not replying earlier. I try to avoid caffeine, but would be delighted with a glass of fruit juice. may I offer you a garibaldi?
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19:32:55  <benjamingoodger> hmm
19:32:59  <benjamingoodger> I'm about to be flamed, aren't I
19:33:55  <Antdovu> they are boiling inside
19:34:01  <ln> benjamingoodger: a glass of fruit juice will be sent directly you in a bottle by the sea.
19:34:01  <Antdovu> trying to make tea
19:34:46  <benjamingoodger> ln: ah, Royal Mail. excellent, I shall await its arrival within six to eight months
19:36:25  <china> yep
19:36:26  <china> thats it
19:36:33  <china> the vechicle limit is 5000
19:36:37  <china> at least per type
19:36:45  <china> 5000 coal trucks
19:36:55  <ln> china: dear sir, you have forgotten to use an apostrophe in your phrase "thats it".
19:37:00  <china> ~10 thats minus.
19:37:30  <china> `,ÂŽ or '?
19:37:37  <dihedral> , <- komma
19:37:47  <ln> china: '
19:37:52  <dihedral> that,s <- looks very wrong
19:37:53  <china> ah, thank you.
19:37:58  <dihedral> and ln: you've dont it again
19:38:15  <Belugas> -t+e
19:38:33  <china> i really need to learn things like that.
19:38:39  <dihedral> and also, ln, you forgot an entire word in you last full sentence
19:38:46  <china> the ' and the ÂŽ to the ` fo da shizzle.
19:39:28  <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬
19:39:32  <ccfreak2k> china, 5000 trucks per train.
19:39:33  <ccfreak2k> ?
19:39:55  <china> no, 5000 trucks per map, 5000 trains, 5000 airvechicelslslc, and so on.
19:39:56  <benjamingoodger> you could barely build a station big enough throughout the whole map
19:41:50  <dihedral> china, what version are you playing?
19:42:03  <china> latest, with newgrf stuff thingy
19:42:07  <dihedral> and are those vehicles actually moving
19:42:11  <china> yes
19:42:15  <dihedral> latest is not a correct answer
19:42:19  <china> oh
19:42:20  <china> hold on.
19:42:27  <china> 0.6.3
19:42:42  <dihedral> stable build, would you care to try it with a nightly?
19:42:50  <china> with a what?
19:42:59  <dihedral> visit
19:43:00  <china> i struggled all night to get my server up
19:43:03  <china> ok
19:43:16  <dihedral> in the upper left corner of the page you have 'download stable' and 'download nightly'
19:43:30  <china> oh!
19:44:11  <Antdovu> nightly means that you may play it only at night
19:44:19  <china> o,o
19:44:20  <dihedral> actually
19:44:21  <dihedral> dont
19:44:25  <dihedral> 5000 is correct
19:44:26  <dihedral> [20:44]  <dihedral> !rcon patch max_trains
19:44:26  <dihedral> [20:44]  <Mrs_Console> dihedral: Current value for 'max_trains' is: '500' (min: 0, max: 5000)
19:45:05  <china> the money counter is going bananas, though
19:45:06  <Aali> is that a hard limit?
19:45:11  <china> that may be something somebody should fix
19:45:17  <dihedral> Aali, no idea
19:45:25  <Aali> probably not
19:45:26  <dihedral> china, it's not broken
19:45:29  <china> all the five thousand coal trucks is actually being used at the moment
19:45:31  <china> well
19:45:41  <dihedral> and that is 5k per company
19:45:41  <china> it gives all kinds of numbers in periods
19:45:44  <china> and ######
19:45:46  <dihedral> per vehicle type
19:46:22  <dihedral> well - then take a screenshot, and upload it with a sav game to ;-)
19:46:37  <china> will do
19:46:39  <china> thanks
19:47:24  <china> 0,501,822
19:47:29  <china> i wonder what the top record is
19:48:05  <dihedral> thats just 420 pounds sterling....
19:48:08  <dihedral> :-P
19:48:24  <dihedral> 420 mio :-P
19:48:28  <china> ,/.
19:48:35  <china> UK uses . right?
19:48:43  <dihedral> as what?
19:48:44  <china> and , for decimals
19:48:49  <dihedral> no
19:48:55  <china> to separate zeroes in greater numbers
19:48:55  <dihedral> , for thousands and . for decimals
19:48:58  <china> whatever the word may be
19:49:00  <china> ah.
19:49:07  <benjamingoodger> actually it's spaces for thousands now
19:49:13  <dihedral> is it?
19:49:18  <dihedral> when was that changed?
19:49:20  <benjamingoodger> e.g. 77 888 999.2
19:49:23  <benjamingoodger> er
19:49:37  <benjamingoodger> it's one of those things that's only officially true
19:49:46  <china> i dont really know how it works here in sweden, but i use . for thousands (or spaces) and , for decimal
19:49:48  <dihedral> it was , when i had to write invoices last time
19:49:49  <benjamingoodger> commas for thousands are still used informally
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19:50:07  <benjamingoodger> china: I'm planning to move to sweden ^^
19:50:11  <china> a piece of the swedish mouth2mouth language is to actually say "two comma five" for 2,5, for instance.
19:50:15  <china> benjamingoodger: do you need an apartment?
19:50:16  <dihedral> very nice country indeed
19:50:32  <benjamingoodger> it won't be for a few years
19:50:37  <dihedral> hehe
19:50:40  <china> im moving after the new year has passed.
19:50:40  <china> ok
19:50:42  <benjamingoodger> I'm going to university first ^^
19:50:53  <china> where do you live now?
19:50:54  <dihedral> benjamingoodger, where to in that big country
19:51:03  <benjamingoodger> china: in the US and UK, we say "two point five" (2.5)
19:51:11  <benjamingoodger> I live in the UK
19:51:15  <china> i have apartments in both sweden and UK, and im selling both of to move to either japan or vegas.
19:51:18  <china> :>
19:51:20  <china> ok
19:51:23  <china> ooh.
19:51:28  <benjamingoodger> dihedral: dunno, norrkoping looks nice though
19:51:34  <dihedral> :-)
19:51:42  <Aali> benjamingoodger: welcome to the neighbourhood
19:51:54  <dihedral> "i cannot remember the town name, something with ...oping" :-P
19:51:56  <china> benjamingoodger: i have an ap. at earls court in london.
19:51:59  <china> haha
19:52:04  <china> norrkoping is nice
19:52:05  <benjamingoodger> Aali: you live in norrkoping?
19:52:09  <china> im in vaxjo right now.
19:52:10  <Aali> i do
19:52:14  <benjamingoodger> aha
19:52:15  <china> Aali: hej!
19:52:24  <benjamingoodger> yes, what he said
19:52:26  <dihedral> i spent 6 months near vetlanda
19:52:29  <Aali> china: Hej svej leverpastej!
19:52:33  <dihedral> holsby to be precise
19:52:43  <ln> hej, hÀr kan man anvÀnda "ö" också, utf-8 sÀger topicen.
19:52:51  <china> whöhöö!
19:52:59  <dihedral> lol
19:53:17  <benjamingoodger> hÌrråh
19:53:35  <china> by the way, you swedes who wanna be professional in openttd - litterally - i have some books you should read
19:53:39  * china just came from the library
19:53:46  <benjamingoodger> heheh
19:54:04  <dihedral> ln- you do realize that you are encouraging people to speak a different langauage in this channel?
19:54:12  <china> gunnar björksten - lönsamhet och likviditet & rolf back - marknadsföring
19:54:13  <china> :>
19:54:24  <benjamingoodger> dihedral: I shouldn't think he cares too much
19:54:51  <dihedral> benjamingoodger, ln is the one to complain as soon as someone speaks another language usually
19:54:52  <ln> dihedral: maybe, but the topic doesn't say anything about a preferred language.
19:54:53  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here cares about this english only rule :p
19:55:17  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, no of course not - just ln complaining is what i was getting at :-P
19:55:20  <Eddi|zuHause> a rule does not need to be in the topic
19:55:22  <china> oh crap
19:55:24  <dihedral> quite ironic actually
19:55:24  <china> i made a big doodoo.
19:55:42  <Eddi|zuHause> go to the toilet next time
19:55:46  <china> i built a big ass airport, and then i accidently removed it. guess what the town people say when im trying to build it now. :(
19:56:03  <benjamingoodger> vere, fakte ni ne devas koni kiun lingvon ni parolas
19:56:06  <Aali> thats why god invented bribing
19:56:18  <china> doesnt work on small ass cities. :(
19:56:30  <Eddi|zuHause> build trees
19:56:31  <benjamingoodger> china: plant colossal numbers of trees
19:56:37  <Aali> thats why ottd's slightly flawed game mechanics invented treebribing
19:56:46  <benjamingoodger> heheheh
19:56:56  <ln> dihedral: do you feel uneasy or confused about "different languages"?
19:57:01  <china> that works?
19:57:02  <china> :o
19:57:09  <china> haha
19:57:10  <dihedral> ln: i feel uneasy about you!
19:57:14  <china> i had no idea of that
19:57:16  <benjamingoodger> :D
19:57:27  <china> i have been playing for years and years, and i didnt have any idea of it. ;)
19:57:59  <benjamingoodger> currently it's a toss-up between canterbury and sweden...I may end up living in both
19:58:06  <Aali> killing trees make them sad, planting trees can make them semi-happy again
19:58:12  <Aali> so you can always build stations
19:58:21  <dihedral> Aali, semi-happy = good...
19:58:34  <dihedral> that is the best standing you'll get for planting trees
19:58:35  <benjamingoodger> canterbury is unpolluted and wealthy, but sweden is the nearest equivalent to a socialist paradise in my view
19:58:38  <Eddi|zuHause> i know that either the original TT box or the manual said something about building trees around your stations, but it was extremely vague
19:58:55  <benjamingoodger> dihedral: that's good enough to build stuff...
19:58:56  <Aali> dihedral: indeed, which isn't perfect, but enough for building stations
19:59:21  <dihedral> yep
19:59:24  <dihedral> :-P
19:59:44  <dihedral> just cannot remove a church with it :-P
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19:59:50  <Prof_Frink> Of course, it's easier in multiplayer.
20:00:04  <Prof_Frink> You can treebribe with one free tile and a friend.
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20:00:22  *** Wolf01 is now known as Guest2940
20:00:22  *** Wolfolo|AWAY is now known as Wolf01
20:00:34  <dihedral> hello Wolf01
20:00:48  <Wolf01> :|
20:01:10  <benjamingoodger> *blink*
20:01:13  <dihedral> ;-)
20:01:57  <Wolf01> I greet only when I enter or leave, not when my connection is reset by power faults
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20:02:04  *** M4rk is now known as Mark
20:02:13  <Prof_Frink> benjamingoodger: Don't blink.
20:02:27  <benjamingoodger> Prof_Frink: don't quote doctor who
20:02:28  <Prof_Frink> Don't look away, don't turn around, and don't blink.
20:02:34  <benjamingoodger> FAIL
20:02:37  <benjamingoodger> :D
20:03:21  <Antdovu> don't run around and desert me ;)
20:03:30  <benjamingoodger> hm?
20:03:57  <Belugas> don't talk to strangers
20:04:07  * dihedral hugs Belugas
20:04:30  *** M4rk [] has joined #openttd
20:04:43  * Belugas searches that Ronnie James Dio song
20:04:53  <Antdovu>  Never gonna make you cry
20:05:32  <benjamingoodger> ho hum
20:05:48  <benjamingoodger> gah...
20:05:53  <benjamingoodger> why can't I write longer chapters?
20:06:00  <Belugas> found it!!
20:06:21  <Belugas> yeah for phone's 4gig ^_^
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20:07:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: count the shadows
20:07:53  *** M4rk is now known as Mark_
20:08:13  *** Purno [] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.]
20:08:14  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: 3.
20:08:58  <Prof_Frink> Belugas: Are you my mummy?
20:09:54  <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬
20:10:04  <benjamingoodger> I told you not to quote doctor who :P
20:10:35  <china> bah
20:10:43  <china> how big fuck loads of trees does the town want :<
20:10:58  <benjamingoodger> an area about 6x6 squares is my choice
20:11:00  *** Mark [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:11:22  <china> i just spent 100 grand on covering the whole town with trees
20:11:23  <china> :<
20:11:41  <Eddi|zuHause> china: you have to make sure that there are no trees on those tiles already
20:12:08  <china> which tiles?
20:12:17  <Eddi|zuHause> the tiles where you build the trees
20:12:36  *** Mark_ is now known as Mark
20:13:14  <china> it worked!
20:13:15  <china> span.
20:13:17  <china> spanx*
20:13:40  <china> i really, really hate trees.
20:14:51  <Antdovu> idea: "areas" in addition to actual towns/cities, etc that would not have any buildings or roads
20:16:16  <Antdovu> but act just like them otherwise
20:16:30  <china> :>
20:16:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what you just said
20:17:01  <benjamingoodger> yes
20:17:03  <benjamingoodger> neither do I
20:17:19  <Antdovu> kind of a rural area?
20:18:02  <Antdovu> it has a name & most other attributes of a town but no buildings
20:18:25  <Antdovu> and no roads
20:18:40  <Eddi|zuHause> in what way would that be an addition to gameplay?
20:19:11  <Antdovu> possible to play without any towns?
20:19:13  <benjamingoodger> it would make things less realistic!
20:19:44  <Eddi|zuHause> Antdovu: how about just destroying everything in the town? people do that often enough...
20:19:44  * china builds an interstellar line
20:20:03  <china> is it just me? or is 100+ station lines with kilometer long trains just ..awesome.
20:20:18  <benjamingoodger> no, no
20:20:21  <benjamingoodger> it is awesome
20:21:22  <Antdovu> Eddi|zuHause: you would have to keep destroying everything
20:21:38  <benjamingoodger> Antdovu: just build over the entire town
20:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> no, when you destroy the central road tile, they don't rebuild it
20:22:08  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: I thought you had to leave the tile, but block it in so it can't expand
20:22:22  <Belugas> Prof_Frink, i doubt i'm a mummy, even more yours.  But...  in Egypt, where the chains are on...
20:22:25  <Antdovu> I am pretty sure I have done that plenty of times without
20:22:50  <Antdovu> it still grows back if you just erase it
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20:23:17  <china> what's your personal record on a single train's profit?
20:23:35  <Antdovu> inflation...
20:23:56  <china> :D
20:24:08  <china> hey
20:24:10  <Prof_Frink> china: Buffer overflow.
20:24:39  <china> im new to this thing, so: i have a train line that closes in a circle. it contains over 100 stations. do i dare to use two trains on the same line?
20:24:55  <Antdovu> I wouldn't do that
20:24:56  <china> if one gets holded, will the otherone kill it from behind eventually?
20:24:58  <china> ok
20:25:02  <Antdovu> I build 1 train per game max
20:25:14  <china> per -game-? :D
20:25:27  <benjamingoodger> china: signals are the key to this sort of thing
20:25:32  <Antdovu> a bus as well if I am feeling adventurous
20:25:43  <china> benjamingoodger: how does one use signals on a single track - i have never tried it.
20:25:49  <china> Antdovu: haha, killer. :)
20:26:38  <benjamingoodger> you just put them at the entrance and exit to each station
20:26:44  <china> oh,
20:26:47  <china> ooh!
20:26:51  <benjamingoodger> it might be very inefficient
20:26:55  <benjamingoodger> but the trains will not collide.
20:26:56  <china> it will work like a wall, i guess
20:27:14  <benjamingoodger> yes, they won't cross the signals whatsoever
20:27:51  <china> though
20:27:56  <china> if the rhytm will be un-even
20:28:03  <china> they will eventually tail each other
20:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> you can use a timetable
20:28:18  <china> and train number two will get 0 passengers
20:28:23  <china> a what. :o
20:28:23  <glx> <Antdovu> Eddi|.zuHause: you would have to keep destroying everything <-- just remove the road tile under town name
20:28:44  <china> oh shit this train is a moneymaker.
20:28:44  <china> :D
20:28:57  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: that's what i said, but they wouldn't believe me... ;)
20:29:01  <benjamingoodger> "tidsplan"
20:29:34  <china> OH
20:29:35  <china> god.
20:29:35  <benjamingoodger> that way they all stay in sync
20:29:46  <china> i found the transparency for trees
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20:29:52  <china> god, thank you for development.
20:29:53  <benjamingoodger> :)
20:29:58  <glx> Eddi|zuHause: but we know what we are talking about ;)
20:30:37  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know what i'm talking about, i just repeat random phrases that i picked up in this channel
20:30:42  <Eddi|zuHause> like babyottd :p
20:31:00  <benjamingoodger> glx: if you remove the central road tile, but nothing else, does the town continue growing?
20:31:21  <glx> no it can't grow if there's no road under town name
20:32:02  <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: the town growth algorithm goes from the central road tile along the roads until it finds a place that has no house/road yet. if the road tile is destroyed, it will always fail to find such a place
20:32:24  <benjamingoodger> ah
20:32:30  <china> holy cow what a moneymaker
20:32:54  <china> £140-200k per station
20:32:55  <benjamingoodger> is this affected by installing a new-style bus/tram station on that tile?
20:33:00  <china> and its not even 30 seconds between
20:33:05  <china> thats a good one so early in the game.
20:33:07  <china> whohoo
20:33:15  <benjamingoodger> passagerare enbart?
20:33:42  <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: i'd say no.
20:33:51  * benjamingoodger hopes to learn swedish by reverse-engineering the output of google translate
20:34:10  <china> benjamingoodger: yes.
20:34:17  <benjamingoodger> china: amazing
20:34:22  <Aali> err
20:34:23  <Antdovu> I suggest you learn reverse polish notation ;)
20:34:26  <benjamingoodger> I can't do passenger services correctly :P
20:34:32  <china> though, im noticing the passenger rate is going down
20:34:32  <Aali> i've seen towns grow out from nothing
20:34:42  <china> so the high profit is temporary
20:34:46  <benjamingoodger> hmm
20:34:54  <Aali> the only way to stop it is to buy some land under the sign
20:35:13  <Aali> 5x5 tiles should be enough
20:35:27  <china> steven seagal on tv. <3
20:35:39  <benjamingoodger> china: the passenger number is proportional to the proximity (nearness) of passenger-creating buildings
20:35:54  <benjamingoodger> try moving your stations toward the city centre if possible
20:35:59  <china> the biggest station (both train, bus and helicopter pad) has 2400 people
20:36:12  <china> and the town aint that big
20:36:14  <benjamingoodger> alternatively, you could try integrating the train system with a bus network
20:36:21  <china> :)
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20:39:17  <china> end of year
20:39:21  <china> four million profit for the train.
20:39:25  <china> not bad.
20:39:26  <benjamingoodger> :)
20:39:31  <benjamingoodger> wait
20:39:33  <benjamingoodger> what currency is that?
20:39:37  <china> dollars
20:39:39  <benjamingoodger> aha
20:39:43  <benjamingoodger> good
20:39:51  <benjamingoodger> I thought you were going to say 4 million SEK :P
20:40:18  <Eddi|zuHause> game balance is quite far off...
20:41:24  <china> balance?
20:43:26  <Eddi|zuHause> exactly :p
20:43:47  <Antdovu> yeah, we need a year 2008 mod -- your company value can only go down
20:43:59  <china> :D
20:44:01  <Antdovu> but you will be able to apply for a bailout
20:44:02  <china> well
20:44:10  <china> i have many ideas to put in here
20:44:30  <china> i would like to see more options around the borrowing bit
20:44:34  <china> like differ interests
20:44:39  <china> financial crisis
20:44:43  <china> presidential changes
20:44:44  <china> :D
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20:50:21  <china> is zeppeliners worth the money for passengers?
20:50:37  <china> 30 passengers per 0,000
20:50:40  <Antdovu> no, you can shoot them down with a shotgun
20:50:42  <china> quite expencive.
20:51:13  <Sacro> Antdovu: flaming arrow is prettier
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20:51:33  <Antdovu> depends on the local customs
20:52:06  <china> btw
20:52:08  <Antdovu> in some places people just trough a bunch of perl at them
20:52:12  <Antdovu> throw*
20:52:17  <benjamingoodger> heheh
20:52:20  <china> i have sent all my trucks to depos, since i want to remove everyone of them
20:52:31  <china> is there a better way then clicking delete in every depot?
20:52:46  <Antdovu> click "sell all" in every depot
20:53:06  <china> it's alot of depots :<
20:53:15  <Antdovu> shouldn't have built that many :P
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20:55:27  <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬
20:56:08  <Aali> vehicle console commands is your friend
20:57:15  <ln> hello to everyone who has joined while i was away
20:57:28  <Aali> 'road all sell', and poof, they're gone
20:57:46  <Aali> disclaimer: requires a patched client :)
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21:00:29  <china> bah
21:00:34  <china> i overdid it
21:00:37  <china> im redooing the map
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21:12:29  <Belugas> marphffff...
21:12:49  <Belugas> et re merde
21:16:03  <Vikthor> Is it possible to set vehicle capacity to zero using either callback 36 or 15?
21:16:48  <frosch123> yes, 15
21:17:46  <frosch123> see serbian tram set, which offers refitting a tram with an additional trailer
21:20:28  <Vikthor> Ok, I will take a look, because for me when I try to set capacity of first vehicle to zero after a refit, it gets stuck on the last cargo type and capacity it was before the refit
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21:30:49  <frosch123> hmm, ok, my hint was wrong
21:31:01  <frosch123> the non-present trailer also has a capacity
21:31:37  <china> mrfrenzy: o/
21:33:29  <Wolf01> 'night to all but ln ;)
21:33:35  <frosch123> night Wolf01
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21:33:52  <frosch123> Vikthor: I am a bit tired currently, but the code looks buggy :)
21:34:45  <Vikthor> hmm shall I try to file a bug report?
21:34:47  <frosch123> i.e. when cb 15 returns 0, the capacity is not added to the total capacity, but the capacity of the articulated part stays with its previous value
21:35:21  <Vikthor> yeah, thats exactly wthat is happening with my grf
21:37:58  <mrfrenzy> hi china ;)
21:42:16  <Qball> china where?
21:42:30  <china> Qball: what?
21:42:33  <frosch123> Vikthor: I guess the bug applies to road vehicles and trains. Ships and aircraft should work. Though it is not very useful for them :)
21:42:34  <china> mrfrenzy: :>
21:42:45  <Qball> aah nickname
21:43:51  <Vikthor> frosch123: Shall I file a bug or you will handle it right away?
21:43:59  <china> mrfrenzy: you sneaky bastard.
21:44:08  <china> du bara sitter och vÀntar på stålar ju
21:44:14  * china anvÀnder alla pengar hela tiden
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21:44:40  <frosch123> Vikthor: I guess I can handle it tomorrow
21:45:20  <Vikthor> so no need for a bug report, or shall I file anyway to increase your count of closed bugs ? :)
21:45:29  <Antdovu> ΔεΜ καταλαβαίΜω τι λέτε
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21:47:39  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: OK, the town where I demolished all the roads near the centre has rebuilt and is expanding, the town where I put diagonal track around the centre tile but left that there is dying.
21:48:29  <frosch123> Vikthor: If you can compile, you might want to test
21:49:00  <china> how can i get a steel mill that "currently doesnt accept iron ore" to accept iron ore again?
21:49:02  <frosch123> Though I have no clue, why that test was added in the first place
21:49:03  <china> :<
21:49:05  <china> thats the only reason i get.
21:49:06  <Vikthor> Yes I can, I will try it
21:49:31  <frosch123> china: by reading the "readme" of the industry grf you are using
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21:59:39  * Belugas goes out of the office, to see NIN!
21:59:40  <Belugas> big night
21:59:43  <Belugas> see yu all
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21:59:48  <frosch123> night Belugas
21:59:50  <ln> bye, Belugas
21:59:55  <ln> hello, Sacro
22:00:01  * frosch123 should also leave
22:00:02  <Sacro> hi ln
22:00:07  <frosch123> night
22:00:10  <Vikthor> night
22:00:11  <ln> night, frosch123
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22:05:06  <gregor> full of spam :/
22:07:24  <Eddi|zuHause> so what?
22:07:27  <Antdovu> The connection was refused when attempting to contact
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22:12:34  <DASPRiD> hey, can someone help me with grf here?
22:12:54  <Aali> no
22:13:32  <dAvis-> lol
22:13:58  <Antdovu> enlarge your cHaR* today!
22:14:10  <Aali> you think thats funny?
22:14:15  <Antdovu> no :(
22:14:25  <Aali> with the information he provided, there's no way i could help him
22:14:34  <Aali> Antdovu: not you
22:15:11  <DASPRiD> I just need some help regarding the code of grfcodec
22:15:45  <Aali> just ask what you want to ask
22:16:46  <Eddi|zuHause> no need to ask, we are clearly psychic enough to find that out on our own
22:16:51  <DASPRiD> well I have multiple questions, first is: outbufsize = 0L + sx * sy + 8; // what does the 0L in this equatation mean?
22:17:01  <DASPRiD> Eddi|zuHause, kewl :X
22:17:42  <Eddi|zuHause> means that the constant 0 is to be treated as a long int
22:17:46  <Osai> j
22:17:51  <Aali> ^ what he said
22:17:58  <Antdovu> k
22:18:22  <DASPRiD> Eddi|zuHause, ah so... when translating that to a high level language, i can just skip the "0L +" ?
22:19:05  <Yexo> maybe, but it might be an obscure way to cast sx * sy before multiplying
22:19:12  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm not even sure that this code does what this person wanted it to do
22:19:23  <Eddi|zuHause> but yeah, i'd just cast sx and sy
22:19:34  <DASPRiD> Eddi|zuHause, well, grfcodec works, doesnt it? ;)
22:19:48  <Eddi|zuHause> that might as well just be a coincidence :p
22:20:00  <DASPRiD> hehe
22:20:06  <Eddi|zuHause> like, a compiler specific interpretation of the code
22:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm not that deep in the c specification to really decide that
22:20:47  <DASPRiD> probably DaleStan knows :x
22:21:02  <Ammler> grfcodec isn't the only software, which can read grfs, btw.
22:21:14  <Ammler> maybe you should also take a look to openttd source :P
22:21:14  <Antdovu> in c it would definitely be done with long integers from 0L on
22:22:04  <Eddi|zuHause> Antdovu: well, if i were to evaluate that expression, i'd have a sum with 3 operands, where the first one is long, and the others get cast to long
22:22:27  <Antdovu> that's how I see it as well
22:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> but the cast of the operand sx*sy would be done a posteriori
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22:23:02  <Antdovu> that's probably intentions vs code?
22:23:08  <Eddi|zuHause> so i sx and sy were 8 bit, the result of the 8 bit operation may overflow before being cast to long
22:23:17  <DASPRiD> probably i should just try to understand what describes :)
22:24:06  <Eddi|zuHause> but really, i don't know the C specification that well
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22:24:25  <Antdovu> try it?
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22:24:45  <Eddi|zuHause> did you listen to anything i said?
22:25:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the compiler could still just coincidently do things correctly
22:25:14  <DASPRiD> i listened! :x
22:25:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i was talking to Antdovu :p
22:25:30  <Antdovu> that is just a simple example of a very important detail
22:25:48  <Antdovu> I am sure it would be done correctly in any reasonable compiler
22:26:19  <Eddi|zuHause> Antdovu: large portions of the C specification just say "the behaviour in that case is undefined"
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22:27:00  <Eddi|zuHause> which tells the compiler builder: "you can do whatever you like here." (in most cases, that are parts where optimisations can be done)
22:27:48  <Eddi|zuHause> and one such optimisations might be, if the "strict" code would say:
22:28:03  <Eddi|zuHause> 1) calculate 15 bit result of 8bit*8bit operation
22:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> 2) clear out top 7 bits to 8bit again
22:28:26  <Eddi|zuHause> 3) cast to 32bit
22:28:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the optimisation here could be to leave out step 2
22:28:54  <ln> 00:23 < Eddi|zuHause> so i sx and sy were 8 bit, the result of the 8 bit operation may overflow before being cast to long  <--- let's not forget about the term integer promotion
22:29:10  <Eddi|zuHause> but i need to say again, i don't know what the specification says
22:30:43  <Antdovu> Integer Promotions  Integer types smaller than int are promoted when an operation is performed on them. If all values of the original type can be represented as an int, the value of the smaller type is converted to an int; otherwise, it is converted to an unsigned int.
22:31:56  <Antdovu> => 0L is useless
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23:32:34  <Ammler> why does the "Heavy Equipment Set" not work in ttdpatch?
23:36:10  <Ammler> I hope it is not something like the issue with opengfx some time ago...
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