Log for #openttd on 14th November 2008:
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00:21:37  <DeGhost> I WANT COPY AND PASTE!!
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00:25:28  <Nite_Owl> Time to feed - later all
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06:28:14  <theholyduck> peekaboo?
06:49:15  <theholyduck> quiet channel is booring ;(
06:49:40  <Aali> you're boring
06:51:34  <theholyduck> well i suddenly decided to pick up 3d modeling again because i got bored.
06:51:42  <theholyduck> and now my rsi kicked back in
06:51:48  <theholyduck> i hate it when im bored
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08:33:01  <dihedral> could someone with access to the grf-crawler's db tell me, if there are duplicate grf id's?
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08:58:41  <petern> dihedral: oskar does not come to this channel
08:59:20  <dihedral> ok
08:59:39  <dihedral> do you know how i can get in touch with him?
09:01:10  <Ammler> dihedral: eis_os in tt-forums
09:01:21  <Ammler> or #tycoon
09:01:23  <dihedral> ah cool
09:01:25  <dihedral> thank you
09:01:37  <dihedral> petern: thank you too :-)
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09:13:41  <Rubidium> dihedral: there are duplicates
09:14:02  <dihedral> across different grf's or just across versions?
09:14:16  <Rubidium> different grfs
09:14:31  <Ammler> FFFFFFFF?
09:14:33  <dihedral> is that 'allowed'? i did think at some point grf id's were supposed to be unique
09:14:37  <Rubidium> czech road set v1.1 vs opengfx grphics replacement set r1
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09:15:41  <Rubidium> DSW-B80C(c)BeSt&RK vs RE160(c) BeSt-Com 2004
09:16:11  <dihedral> are they supposed to be able to be the same?
09:16:20  <dihedral> or did someone do something wrong
09:16:52  <Rubidium> I've got no idea, but there's no global list of what grf used what grf id, so it's quite easy to get duplicates
09:17:53  <dihedral> shame :-(
09:18:24  <Rubidium> Multi-Storey Car Park vs New Factory for TTD vs New large HQ
09:18:48  <Rubidium> New carriage for the temperate climate in TTD vs New helipad 2.0
09:19:15  <dihedral> that really sucks
09:20:21  <Ammler> wiki guide tells you to check on grfcrawler for existing ID
09:20:44  <Ammler> but specially newbies don't like to read or can't
09:20:48  <Rubidium> but grfcrawler doesn't contains all grfIDs I think
09:21:31  <Ammler> well, you just need to check the first 2 bytes, the rest is up2you
09:22:28  <Rubidium> I 'know' of at least 364 GRFIDs that are used
09:22:52  <Rubidium> and 592 unique GRFs
09:23:07  <Ammler> from Masteserver?
09:23:13  <Rubidium> yes
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09:29:43  <petern> many of those will be updated versions of the same GRF.
09:33:08  <Rubidium> petern: if you're talking about the 592 being mostly updated versions, then yes you're right
09:34:05  <petern> sorry, wasn't aware i'd need to clarify that after 5 minutes...
09:34:28  <Ammler> 364 is quite a lot
09:34:48  <Ammler> our pack has only 30% then :-)
09:35:50  <Ammler> Rubidium: do you have names to the IDs?
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09:47:25  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes, but my nternet is right now too slow to give the list to you.
09:47:35  <Rubidium> and slow means that I haven't had feedback on what I've writte yet since your questions
09:47:54  <Ammler> :-)
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09:49:40  <Ammler> did you determine that way which GRFID is double?
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09:50:45  <Rubidium> Ammler: yes
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10:33:18  <theholyduck> hmm.. i cant get this damned house looking right ;(
10:33:33  * theholyduck scraps it and tries again
10:33:48  <theholyduck> modeling a 32bpp version of airports is a pain
10:38:42  <petern> hmm, pc monitors now coming out at 1920x1080 resolution...
10:38:52  <petern> and cheap...
10:41:30  <petern> just wonder if the colour is as good as crts...
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10:55:48  <theholyduck> petern, o
10:55:56  <theholyduck> i'd say MORE than good enough
10:56:05  <theholyduck> but then again crts always made my eyes hurt
10:56:08  <theholyduck> and lcd's didnt
10:56:15  <theholyduck> thus im a bit biased
10:57:53  <petern> refresh rate? heh
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11:02:35  <ln> lcd's or lcds?
11:03:54  <petern> technically either but without is preferred these days
11:09:46  <china> who-ever uploaded wall-e would be happy by now.
11:09:48  <china> :-3
11:13:51  <petern> hmm?
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11:23:14  <planetmaker> [11:44]	<petern>	just wonder if the colour is as good as crts... <-- read a week ago a comparative test of some. Some monitors got quite good ratings.
11:25:13  <petern> yes, some are better than others
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12:04:02  <theholyduck> petern, well not just refreshrate. even the high refreshrate ones gave me pain
12:04:19  <theholyduck> if you DONT look directly at a crt you can see the shimering
12:04:30  <theholyduck> and since i use 3 monitors on my desktop..
12:04:44  <theholyduck> not looking directly into them is a common event
12:05:04  <theholyduck> thus i dont use crt's.
12:05:20  <Antdovu1> adjust your eyes' refresh rate
12:06:01  <china> :o
12:06:07  <petern> well
12:06:16  <china> :O
12:06:24  <petern> modern lcds flicker a bit anyway
12:06:27  <petern> with the dithering
12:06:36  <petern> different sort of flicker, but still tehre
12:06:40  <theholyduck> petern, i never noticed my lcd's flicker though :P
12:06:42  <theholyduck> well rather
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12:06:46  <theholyduck> not in anyway that annoys me
12:06:55  <theholyduck> and as a person with like half a million eye problems allready
12:07:08  <theholyduck> i dont wanna use anything that feels bad for my eyes :D
12:07:26  <petern> someone just needs to make an lcd with full 24 bpp support...
12:07:33  * theholyduck has no depth perception. and massivly nearsighted.
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12:12:31  <Tefad> LCDs do flicker
12:12:36  <Tefad> and it isn't always because of dithering
12:12:52  <Tefad> liquid crystals do not operate on DC. you have to apply AC to them.
12:13:32  <theholyduck> your lights in the ceiling flickers to.
12:13:33  <theholyduck> well depending
12:13:35  <theholyduck> obviously
12:13:40  <theholyduck> but its not like you notice
12:14:37  <Tefad> incandesent bulbs flicker at 100 or 120Hz depending on your grid
12:15:20  <theholyduck> Tefad, well the POINT i was trying to make. is that crts flicker in a way that i can see when im not looking directly at them
12:15:30  <theholyduck> though as long as i look straight at them i wont notice
12:17:27  <Tefad> yes, your peripheral vision is more sensitive to flicker
12:17:42  <Tefad> foveal not as much
12:17:48  <Tefad> but each person is different
12:17:55  <petern> designed for picking up movement, heh
12:18:04  <Tefad> also when you're tired, your eye is more sensntive to flicker overall
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12:55:34  <vvv444> Hi all!
12:55:41  <SmatZ> hello
12:56:10  <vvv444> I tried trams today and noticed some behavior that seems strange.
12:57:36  <vvv444> I took a small town that I wanted to make grow. So I created a circular tram way in it to transport passangers around.
12:57:50  <vvv444> When I did such things with buses it worked.
12:58:26  <vvv444> (Yeah, I know that's not a very smart thing to do at 1st place... But it was an experiment)
12:58:50  <Ammler> trams are like buses
12:59:35  <vvv444> However, the result of running trams was surprising. The town population started shrinking instead of growing although almost all available passangers were transported (from town info window)
13:00:24  <vvv444> What happened was that town started removing buildings near tram ways and didn't found new ones.
13:01:09  <vvv444> Insted it started growing lots of new roads. It seems as the game doesn't treat tram ways as normal roads for town growing algorithm!
13:01:26  <planetmaker> tram ways are not roads.
13:01:38  <planetmaker> but road can have tram ways on top of them.
13:01:56  <vvv444> planetmaker: These were roads with tramways
13:02:37  <vvv444> Is it a known/intended behaviour? Or should I debug it?
13:04:04  <planetmaker> I have once seen something similar. But towns population may fluctuate. If too many random roads bother you, choose a better road layouts for towns :)
13:05:13  <vvv444> planetmaker: hmm, it doesn't seem as a fluctuation. I'll debug it and update you.
13:05:28  <planetmaker> update the devs, not me :P
13:05:29  <vvv444> Town approx halved its population
13:05:41  <vvv444> I'll just write it here :)
13:05:46  <planetmaker> :)
13:06:22  <vvv444> "you" is a collective word :)
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13:41:24  <petern> regarding lcds flickering...
13:41:47  <petern> why does a dither pattern on the screen (i.e. individual static pixels) cause flicker?
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13:43:00  <Tefad> be sure it's a dithering pattern before calling it such
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13:43:35  <Tefad> and check out this site:
13:44:12  <Tefad> it has list of test images (some will flicker at 30-40Hz so be warned if you're sensitive to flickering lights)
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13:45:36  <petern> i know what a dithering pattern is :P
13:45:54  <petern> it's a windows desktop with a single colour background, but in 8bpp
13:46:04  <petern> so it's dithered it to try to match what it should be...
13:46:20  <Tefad> i see. there's other types of dithering that apply to single pixels
13:46:43  <Tefad> some LCDs can only display 6bits per channel or so, and will dither temporally to compensate
13:46:53  <Tefad> the dithering you're talking about is spatial
13:47:10  <petern> yes, i know. that's the dithering i referred to earlier.
13:47:29  <petern> heh
13:47:39  <petern> the rgb subpixel dot-inversion image really makes my screen flicker :)
13:47:39  <Tefad> yup yup. slight misconception
13:48:10  <Tefad> that's what i have at work
13:48:27  <Tefad> though the response rate isn't quite high enough for me to notice casually. i have to focus to see it
13:48:35  <petern> the line paired inversion doesn't flicker, but *does* mess up my eyes...
13:48:40  <Tefad> lol
13:49:10  <Tefad> my laptop also has some flickering but similar to that i get at work
13:49:18  <petern> row-inversion, that is, not dot-inversion
13:49:31  <Tefad> and older laptop had row inversion which made me think the screen was interlaced
13:49:36  <Tefad> (which it almost emulates)
13:49:36  <petern> *nod*
13:50:00  <Tefad> most cheapo screens have row or line paired row patterns
13:50:10  <Tefad> some are rotated 90 deg so it looks like columns ; )
13:50:44  <Tefad> and others still are rotated 90deg but sub pixels are also rotated 90deg...
13:51:00  <Tefad> which effectively turns it into column inversion
13:51:22  <Tefad> i think the smaller EeePC screens have that
13:51:52  <petern> heh, crosstalk 2 & 3 are visible for me
13:52:05  <petern> hmm, and crosstalk 1 slightly
13:54:26  <Tefad> no crosstalk on my CRT
13:54:30  <Tefad> but i can't see the pixels anyway
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13:54:44  <Tefad> KVM fudges the signal a little
13:54:55  <Tefad> plus i'm hitting the bandwidth limitation of the cable that came with the CRT
13:55:19  <petern> heh
13:55:22  <Tefad> (i get ghosting and other stupid crap with direct connection, at high res)
13:55:31  <petern> my monitors are 1024x768, so no problem there
13:55:34  <Tefad> oh, pff
13:55:51  <Tefad> also if you have analog cable to LCD be sure to properly configure the sync
13:56:07  <Tefad> good page to sync against
13:56:30  <petern> auto seems to work well enough
13:56:38  <Tefad> i mean auto on that page
13:56:47  <Tefad> i don't manually sync unless auto is busted
13:57:19  <petern> ah
13:57:39  <Tefad> every-other-pixel is good pattern for auto to lock onto
13:57:43  <Antdovu> Line-paired row-inversion is crazy...
13:58:39  <Tefad> people thought i was crazy when i said LCDs flicker
13:58:58  <Tefad> now i just throw this page at them and a big STFU.
13:59:03  <Antdovu> focusing on it and then looking away makes it feel like there was something weird in the air...
14:00:05  <Antdovu> I suggest sending that page to someone who is drunk
14:01:17  <theholyduck> argh
14:01:21  <theholyduck> contacts are so annoying
14:01:27  <theholyduck> you have to change them every 12 hours or so
14:01:33  <theholyduck> because your eyes dry out
14:01:57  <Tefad> there are breatheable ones
14:02:07  <theholyduck> Tefad, well yeah
14:02:10  <theholyduck> to some degree
14:02:12  <Tefad> hmm too many e's
14:02:25  <theholyduck> the silicone ones can be used for a month in 1 go
14:02:37  <theholyduck> but they still dry you out a bit
14:02:47  <theholyduck> and are way thicker than dailies
14:02:57  <theholyduck> and doesnt work well if you rub your eyelids alot
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14:03:04  <theholyduck> thus i dont use them :P
14:03:31  <theholyduck> point being. contacts is a major pain in the arse
14:03:36  <theholyduck> and if i COULD use glasses i would
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14:04:56  <Tefad> you don't like glasses?
14:05:07  <theholyduck> Tefad, i physically cant use them
14:05:13  <Tefad> ah.
14:05:14  <theholyduck> my eyes are defective in so many ways :P
14:05:20  <theholyduck> glasses would make me see double
14:05:23  <Tefad> interesting
14:05:37  <theholyduck> Tefad, well i was born with 1 eye looking way to the side
14:05:45  <Tefad> got it
14:05:47  <theholyduck> then got surgery on it :P
14:05:51  <theholyduck> to adjust the muscles
14:05:58  <theholyduck> when i was like 4 or so
14:06:02  <Tefad> i am quite nearsighted
14:06:11  <Tefad> glasses give me very weird depth of field
14:06:16  <Tefad> everything looks like a 2d cutout
14:06:32  <theholyduck> Tefad, well everything always looks like a 2d cutout for me :P
14:06:39  <theholyduck> my brain never learned depth perception
14:06:48  <Tefad> interesting
14:07:12  <theholyduck> Tefad, well back when i was little it was more of an annoyance
14:07:15  <theholyduck> i couldnt pick things up
14:07:20  <theholyduck> sucked at sports.
14:07:20  <theholyduck> etc
14:07:33  <theholyduck> though its not like you cant live without depth perception
14:08:11  <Tefad> when i got my prescription changed when i was younger, each time my depth perception took a while to adjust to new lenses
14:08:33  <Tefad> a lot of depth perception has to do with seeing double
14:09:04  <Tefad> the rest is how much your eyes stretch the lense to focus on an object
14:09:05  <theholyduck> Tefad, well the seeing double with glasses thingy is due to my right eye being farsighted and my left eye being nearsighted
14:09:31  <Tefad> (stretch the lense in your eye)
14:09:45  <Tefad> perhaps i mean to say lens
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14:11:51  <theholyduck> im glad i live in the computer age.
14:12:04  <theholyduck> though the introduction of 3d monitors is going to screw me over sometime in the future
14:12:12  <theholyduck> im going to be all like
14:12:13  <Tefad> doh
14:12:33  <theholyduck> "back in my day we only had 2 dimensions on our computer X and Y
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14:12:39  <theholyduck> and we didnt always have y"
14:12:44  <theholyduck> "NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!"
14:13:04  <Tefad> stay out of my azaleas!
14:13:21  <theholyduck> im allready looking forward to becomming a old bitter man
14:13:26  <Tefad> lol
14:13:31  <theholyduck> that can talk about how much better life was in the olden days
14:14:03  <Tefad> yeah back in the old days it took an hour to download ONE MP3!! and to play it back used over half of the computer's resources!
14:14:36  <Tefad> and you could only put about 100 songs on your computer before you ran out of space
14:14:51  <Tefad> mm yeah.. the good ol' days
14:15:03  <Tefad> then there's the era before that
14:15:34  <theholyduck> we only had 64k of ram!
14:15:35  <Tefad> BBSs remote terminals
14:15:39  <theholyduck> but it was enough to go to the moon!
14:15:43  <theholyduck> IT WAS ENOUGH FOR ME!
14:16:07  <Tefad> didn't the amiga have like.. 64K and a full GUI?
14:16:47  <theholyduck> err wait. i think the first machines and the moon landing stuff had 32k
14:16:51  <theholyduck> come to think of it
14:17:23  <theholyduck> the apple 2 and the appollo rocket both had 32k of ram :P
14:17:55  <Tefad> heh
14:18:04  <Tefad> i think they used core memory back then
14:18:34  <theholyduck> hmm
14:18:38  <theholyduck> is the openttd wiki down?
14:18:43  <Tefad>
14:19:10  <theholyduck> i was trying to take another look at that airport im modeling
14:19:19  <theholyduck> and the wiki is down :P
14:19:32  <Antdovu> it looks like it is down
14:19:50  <Antdovu> still responds to ping though
14:20:13  <Antdovu> faster than google...
14:22:02  <Antdovu> anyone know where the server should be located?
14:23:07  <theholyduck> actually. i think its time to go to sleep
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14:23:13  <theholyduck> i havent slept for 24h's :O
14:23:25  <theholyduck> i have this tendency to get way to absorbed in doing something...
14:25:12  <Antdovu> try 48h next time? ;)
14:26:12  <theholyduck> Antdovu, i once sat up 56h's
14:26:17  <theholyduck> doing pretty much one thing
14:26:24  <theholyduck> and another time i was up 72h on a bet
14:26:29  <theholyduck> but still
14:26:32  <theholyduck> i shuold really go to bed
14:26:35  <Antdovu> what did you do?
14:26:51  <theholyduck> Antdovu, 3d modeling :)
14:26:56  <Antdovu> :D
14:27:01  <theholyduck> i just got this "surge of inspiration"
14:27:09  <theholyduck> and good ideas kept popping into my head
14:27:12  <theholyduck> so i just rolled with it
14:27:33  <Antdovu> being awake for too long makes people look better :P
14:27:38  <Antdovu> kind of like being drunk
14:28:07  <theholyduck> well it works in alot of the same ways on your brain
14:28:11  <theholyduck> hallucinations and everything
14:28:22  <theholyduck> co-ordinationloss
14:28:33  <theholyduck> difficulty doing math
14:28:34  <theholyduck> etc
14:29:27  <Antdovu> yeah, after the one time when I noticed that I liked the people around me significantly more when very sleepy, I have been trying to avoid it :P
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14:32:56  * davis- hi
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15:07:14  <vvv444> What is the reason for "Allow drive-through road stops on town-owned roads" option? What is the reason for disabling it?
15:08:56  <benjamingoodger> well, in some real-life situations, towns do not allow people to randomly install bus stops on their roads without permission
15:09:56  <vvv444> hmm, You think it's the only reason? The realism?
15:10:15  <benjamingoodger> possibly...
15:10:25  <benjamingoodger> either realism or masochism...
15:10:35  <benjamingoodger> those two usually cover most options in OTTD
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15:20:17  <SmatZ> vvv444: also, town-index is not stored... so after removing the roadstop, the road will belong to nearest town (not the town that owned the road before)... though usually it will be the same town
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15:23:47  <china> Ratio: 0.689
15:23:51  <china> oh
15:23:52  <china> ..
15:23:53  <china> wrong channel.
15:24:02  <china> excuse me.
15:24:23  <benjamingoodger> :)
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15:27:58  * china ^5 sh
15:28:16  <benjamingoodger> ?
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15:58:47  <china> benjamingoodger: never mind me. im having major problems connecting my circuits to reality server.
15:59:12  <benjamingoodger> ah, norrkoping syndrome
15:59:40  <benjamingoodger> (joke)
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16:02:52  <china> haha
16:03:38  <ln> your having major problems?
16:04:09  *** NukeBuster [~NukeBuste@] has quit [Quit:]
16:04:22  <ln> or which one is a better match for "im", "your" or "ur"?
16:05:37  <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬
16:05:54  <china> ..
16:06:32  <benjamingoodger> all hail the national socialist philologist workers' party, led by the Leader, ln
16:07:10  *** Zahl_ [] has joined #openttd
16:07:35  <benjamingoodger> Ich komme meine Leader, der Lehrer Grammatikalische
16:09:34  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
16:11:25  <davis-> o_O
16:13:53  *** tokai [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:14:11  <ln> benjamingoodger: let's keep in mind it was Churchill who reminded his generals about using proper grammar during WWII.
16:14:20  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:14:20  *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl
16:14:42  <benjamingoodger> I invoke rule 39
16:15:31  <benjamingoodger> oh
16:15:32  <benjamingoodger> actually
16:15:37  <benjamingoodger> I invoke rule 6, godwin's law
16:15:42  <benjamingoodger> but rule 39 is good also
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16:16:02  <Eddi|zuHause> he should have taught them german grammar :p
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16:24:14  <benjamingoodger> english is more difficult to learn imo
16:24:43  <Vikthor> Since British generals managed to be on the winning side, and so were Russian, American, French and other, we can conclude that knowledge of German grammar is not necessary to win the war :p
16:25:15  <benjamingoodger> hmm
16:25:24  <benjamingoodger> well, it's debatable whether the french won...
16:25:55  <benjamingoodger> also, the cracking of Enigma (enabling us to more easily intercept German grammar) is said to have won us the war
16:26:25  <Vikthor> Sure they won just like Belgians, Norwegians and others
16:26:45  <benjamingoodger> and indo-china.
16:26:50  <benjamingoodger> ho hum
16:26:51  <ln> yeah...
16:26:58  <benjamingoodger> what an ugly conversation topic
16:27:09  <ln> to say Norwegian and French won is quite an exaggeration.
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16:27:54  <benjamingoodger> meh, at least one good thing came out of WW2
16:28:05  <Vikthor> well Britain wouldn't have won alone
16:28:19  <benjamingoodger> debatable
16:28:20  <Vikthor> even Russia needed some help
16:28:26  <ln> Vikthor: but the countries you mentioned didn't contribute to the win.
16:28:35  <benjamingoodger> but the French had already lost when the Americans joined in ¬.¬
16:28:35  <Vikthor> it was collective effort
16:29:11  <Vikthor> ln: That's debatable had they full cooperated with Germans it would not be so easy
16:29:38  <benjamingoodger> it was, to a great extent, the dropping of fission weapons on Japan that won the war
16:29:45  <Vikthor> btw. foreign pilots were quite important for RAF during battle of Britain
16:30:59  <Vikthor> benjamingoodger: no, by that time war was already decided, it was just matter of how many American lifes would invasion into Japan cost, not if it was going to be succesful
16:31:39  <benjamingoodger> I'm not saying it was a good thing
16:31:53  <benjamingoodger> people are still suffering the effects of it
16:32:28  <benjamingoodger> it smacks of childishness to me
16:32:57  <ln> dropping fission ended the war in Japan, but it didn't affect Europe directl
16:33:00  <ln> y
16:34:13  <ln> someone has speculated that without the nucular weapons the US would have been fighting Japan until the 50's.
16:34:22  <benjamingoodger> not bloody likely
16:34:29  <benjamingoodger> the japanese were starving already
16:34:40  <benjamingoodger> surrender was days or weeks away
16:34:47  <De_Ghosty> more like months
16:35:00  <benjamingoodger> "aw, hell, let's drop the nuke to show 'em we mean business"
16:35:06  <Vikthor> sure Japan by that time had no acces to oil
16:35:07  <De_Ghosty> the nuke was just bearly in range of a lancaster
16:35:16  <De_Ghosty> and they had to ditch the lancaster after the drop
16:35:30  <Vikthor> it wasn't Lancaster
16:35:39  <De_Ghosty> well some long range bomber
16:35:40  <Vikthor> it was B-29
16:36:28  <ln> benjamingoodger: btw, did you read about those two Japanese soldiers who were found (alive) from a distant island in 2003 or so?
16:36:48  <benjamingoodger> nope
16:36:57  <ln> they didn't know the war had ended.
16:36:59  <benjamingoodger> aha
16:37:08  <benjamingoodger> there was a similar british man in the 70s
16:37:20  <benjamingoodger> ...wait
16:37:32  <benjamingoodger> 2003!?
16:37:44  <benjamingoodger> god, that's inconceivable
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16:39:34  <benjamingoodger> "On July 11, the Allied leaders met in Potsdam, Germany. They ... reiterated the demand for unconditional surrender by Japan, specifically stating that "the alternative for Japan is prompt and utter destruction". When Japan continued to reject the Potsdam terms, the United States dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in early August. On August 15, 1945 Japan surrendered, ending the war
16:39:34  <benjamingoodger> ."
16:40:30  <benjamingoodger> "reject our terms, will they? this'll show 'em"
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16:41:19  <ln> but well, testing nucular weapons in action was unavoidable.  someone would have done it somewhere.
16:41:36  <benjamingoodger> that doesn't excuse it
16:42:32  <benjamingoodger> to say that Hitler was a natural result of the treaty of versailles doesn't excuse his actions either
16:43:04  <benjamingoodger> fortunately, Europe is now in a position of solid and well-grounded peace and collaboration
16:43:35  <benjamingoodger> so now that we've stopped trying to kill each other, we can concentrate on killing Arabs
16:43:38  <benjamingoodger> :(
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16:44:34  <Prof_Frink> ln: You're not an american president. It's spelt "Nuclear".
16:44:53  <benjamingoodger> Prof_Frink: I think he's being ironic
16:45:11  <benjamingoodger> in fact, there is a type of subatomic particle featured in my novel named a "nucule"
16:46:15  <ln> Prof_Frink: we can discuss about that when you are elected to the white house.
16:46:18  <benjamingoodger> its discoverer was one Georgina Arbet
16:46:46  <benjamingoodger> heh
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17:02:06  <yorick> does a CMD_COMPANY_CTRL with p1=0 and p2=1 make any sense if I just joined a player with a new company with id 5?
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17:10:57  <Antdovu> does anyone here like how timetables work?
17:14:28  <benjamingoodger> frankly, no
17:14:33  <benjamingoodger> but I can't see a better solution
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17:15:30  <Antdovu> I am trying to make a greedy version of it
17:15:52  <Antdovu> not completely sure that it will make much sense
17:16:51  <Antdovu> idea: leave station when fully loaded or when waiting time is up, whichever comes sooner
17:17:48  <Antdovu> this creates a situation in which you will be likely to arrive early in the next station
17:18:42  <Antdovu> so a further change is needed: wait only in stations where you are loading cargo
17:19:32  <Antdovu> does anyone see a logical error in this?
17:20:09  <Antdovu> will it create any ridiculous situations?
17:22:23  <benjamingoodger> well, the current timetabling system is designed to make trains be at a certain place at a certain time
17:23:04  <benjamingoodger> so having them leave when they're full would defeat the purpose somewhat
17:23:16  <benjamingoodger> methinks just copying the thing from rollercoaster tycoon would be better...
17:24:50  <Antdovu> how does it work there?
17:26:06  <benjamingoodger> there's a series of tickboxes
17:26:46  <benjamingoodger> "maximum wait time", "minimum wait time", "leave when another train arrives at station", "wait for: full/half/quarter/any load" etc
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17:31:13  <Antdovu> this seems reasonable
17:31:20  <Antdovu> what were the problems with it?
17:32:11  <benjamingoodger> well, it's not necessarily applicable to TTD in the same way
17:32:26  <benjamingoodger> but the main problem is that it's over three years newer than TTD
17:33:14  <benjamingoodger> sorry, that's four years
17:34:17  <Antdovu> how is the age difference a problem?
17:35:51  <ln> if someone is four years younger than TTD, that's not legal age in most countries.
17:36:01  <benjamingoodger> it just means that it wasn't included in TTD
17:37:26  <Antdovu> well, we have openttd which is still being developed ;)
17:37:39  <benjamingoodger> yes
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17:37:53  <benjamingoodger> it may make it into OTTD at some point, hopefully
17:38:26  <Antdovu> rephrase my question: what were the implementation/logical problems with it?
17:39:04  <benjamingoodger> none that I found
18:01:32  <yorick> .back
18:02:17  <Belugas> front.
18:02:25  <Antdovu> pop_back()
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18:11:44  <yorick> what's the exact meaning of p2 in CMD_COMPANY_CTRL when p1 = 0?
18:16:41  *** paul_ [] has joined #openttd
18:16:59  <Belugas> that the game will crash in 10 seconds
18:19:35  *** DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:20:03  <benjamingoodger> :)
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18:24:29  <Belugas> yorick: i really wonder where you would look to find out...
18:24:43  <Belugas> i really wonder if you wold even search where to find out
18:25:47  <yorick> "create a new company, Which company (network) it will be is in p2"
18:26:11  <yorick> and then the opposing "ClientID of the newly created client"
18:27:53  <frosch123> Try to change the code in a way, so it does not need the value. Then you do not have to bother any longer, what it meaning was.
18:28:38  <yorick> frosch123, you rejected the patch that would have made it possible some time ago
18:28:48  <yorick> I won't try to do that again
18:29:00  <frosch123> I rejected a patch?
18:29:15  <frosch123> I doubt that, as that would mean I would have looked a it.
18:30:22  <yorick> no, you as a plural
18:31:51  <Belugas> i think he means the one who exposed the client number, or something like that
18:33:18  <yorick> ^
18:35:14  <Belugas> so, now, it seems you do kow the answer to your question, yorick :)  congratulations
18:35:38  <yorick> Belugas: no, I still don
18:35:40  <yorick> t
18:36:04  <yorick> is it "company (network)" or ClientID of the newly created client (you can create a client?)
18:37:39  <Belugas> in the code (from a quick search) i could only find 1 instance of the copmmand where p1 was at zero.
18:37:41  <Belugas> look there :)
18:38:39  <yorick> cp->p2 = cs - _clients;?
18:38:57  *** Antdovu [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:39:46  <yorick> cid = requested company/company of joining client <-- ?
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18:51:59  <Wolf01> hello
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19:00:30  <ln> hello Wolf01
19:00:43  <Wolf01> hello ln
19:14:12  <yorick> 00020411100000000001000000837b000000005bf0010008 <-- this is the value for a command packet, but it seems wrong
19:14:27  <yorick> because the last byte should be a bool, and this one clearly isn't
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19:20:52  <Wolf01> why not? false = 0 and true <> 0 :D
19:22:31  <yorick> because true = 1 and false = 0
19:23:21  <Wolf01> then false = 0, true != false
19:23:34  *** svippy [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:24:32  <yorick> this->Send_uint8(data ? 1 : 0);
19:24:33  <yorick> no
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19:48:49  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you have the nibbles reversed?
19:49:13  <Eddi|zuHause> or you're looking at the wrong byte?
19:54:18  <ccfreak2k> Delicious endianness.
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20:23:48  <rortom> hiya
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20:48:40  <vvv444> hey
20:48:51  <vvv444> Is there any tametable development going on?
20:49:03  <vvv444> *timetable (I mean advanced features)
20:49:42  * davis- shrugs
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20:51:40  <Aali> vvv444: plenty, check out ITiM
21:02:24  <ln> Volkswagen Kleinbus in Star Trek Voyager \o/
21:06:17  <rortom> o_O
21:08:20  <davis-> .
21:08:31  <mrfrenzy> indeed
21:08:47  <Eddi|zuHause> tom paris did have a faible for "old" cars
21:10:58  <rortom> ah ;)
21:13:34  <ln> they are on earth
21:13:45  <ln> los angeles
21:16:27  <Wolf01> that should be the episode where the doctor was kidnapped
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21:30:15  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
21:31:41  <Wolf01> hi
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22:31:07  <Wolf01> 'night
22:31:11  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:38:12  <Sacro> so yeah, OpenTTD is using 580MiB RAM
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22:42:59  <Qball> Sacro: so no runny on my netbook :(
22:43:00  <Qball> damn
22:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what they invented swap for...
22:43:44  <Qball> on those horrid ssd's
22:43:45  <Qball> good god
22:44:00  * Qball dislikes his netbook for that
22:44:06  <Sacro> i have 2GB of ram
22:44:13  <Sacro> and a 8096^2 map
22:44:22  <Prof_Frink> I have my swap partition on a ramdisk.
22:44:25  <Qball> that is absurd large
22:44:49  <Qball> swapiness=0
22:44:51  <Qball> I normally do
22:44:58  <Qball> or no swap
22:45:28  <Zuu> As my battery is flat already on my laptop I replaced the harddrive with a 7200 rpm disk, when I upgraded the harddrive last time.
22:46:07  <Qball> my thinkpad (big laptop) has 7200rpm disk.. and I love it
22:46:28  <Zuu> So, while the 7200 rpm drains the battery faster, it did only make 10 minutes on the battery before, so not much of a lose :)
22:46:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Prof_Frink: when the ramdisk is on a network drive, that'd make perfect sense ;)
22:48:30  <SmatZ> interesting ... two almost same PCs ... both AMD 2400+, one 512MB RAM + GF 6600, second 1024MB + GF7600GT + 2HDD ... the first draws (under load) ~(170 + 80)Watts, the second (more powerful) ~(60 + 60)Watts (PC + monitor)
22:48:57  <Qball> 2nd is lot less
22:49:05  <Qball> better psu?
22:49:10  <SmatZ> I am really impressed by those 60Watts draw by PC with Barton (and unimpressed by those 170Watts by PC with Thoroughbred)
22:49:16  <SmatZ> Qball: interesting question
22:49:32  <Qball> mine here puls around 150 including 2 17" crt's and usb hub and dvb reciever
22:49:49  <Qball> core 2 duo with a 8500GT + 2 sata disk
22:50:03  <SmatZ> I bought some "80+ eff" PSUs, and they draw ~10Watts, even when the switch (that 1/0 switch at the back of PC) is set to 0 :-p
22:50:08  <Zuu> Haven't measured that, as electricty is included in the rent :)
22:50:50  <SmatZ> Qball: mine tops to ~170 Watts (1 CRT, AMD X2)
22:51:08  <SmatZ> I wonder why I have 300W+ PSUs everywhere
22:51:16  <Qball> peeak
22:51:31  <SmatZ> Zuu: the electricity is still more and more expensive :(
22:51:35  <Qball> and cheap psu's have a habit of having rails
22:52:17  <Zuu> Yea, it is, and it would be good if electricity was on the bill, because then more people would care about keeping their usage down.
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22:52:55  <Zuu> Well, we have to pay it, but you just pay the average use in your building or so.
22:52:59  <SmatZ> Zuu: yeah, I agree :) but I am really upset when the management has vages of over 30 mil euro / year :-x
22:53:47  <SmatZ> everyone in this republic paid ~200Euro / year for the main manager ...
22:54:51  <Zuu> At least with the finance crisis, the goverments put some more demands on the crisis companies to lower their bonuses to receive help...
22:56:07  <Zuu> 200 Euro / Year and person is awfully alot..
22:57:04  <dihedral> oi
22:57:08  <Qball> oi
22:57:21  <SmatZ> oi
22:57:42  <SmatZ> errr ... not oi... isn't it nacistic greeting?
22:57:55  *** mortal` is now known as mortal
22:58:40  <dihedral> oi is portuguese for hey
22:59:01  <SmatZ> dihedral: oh sorry then :-x
22:59:07  <dihedral> :-P
22:59:39  <SmatZ>! "Because some fans of Oi! were involved in white nationalist organisations such as the National Front and the British Movement, some histories of rock music dismiss Oi! as racist."
22:59:50  <SmatZ> that's where is my mental connection from :)
23:00:06  <Qball> aah
23:00:15  <Qball> hoi == hey oi is for lazy bums
23:00:42  <SmatZ> :)
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