Log for #openttd on 23rd November 2008:
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00:01:04  <benjamingoodger> hello night owl
00:01:21  <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: you confuse Sacro.
00:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> well, view that as an initiation ritus ;)
00:02:01  <Nite_Owl> I have been known to have that effect on people
00:02:33  <Eddi|zuHause> everybody has that effect on Sacro ;)
00:10:54  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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00:26:11  <appe>
00:26:13  <appe> help.
00:29:18  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
00:31:54  <Rubidium> solution.
00:32:06  <Eddi|zuHause> .
00:32:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't actually have the bandwidth to click on every youtube link out there...
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00:34:02  <Char> re
00:36:06  <Char> noone around?
00:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> why would there be anyone around?
00:39:16  <Sacro> oh god I still can't fix this ><M
00:39:59  <Gekz> ._.
00:40:24  <Eddi|zuHause> ·,˙
00:42:02  <Gekz> is that how most german people look? :P
00:42:32  <Eddi|zuHause> depends from which side you look at them
00:42:46  <Gekz> lolo
00:43:35  <SmatZ> appe: (great video you posted)
00:45:07  <Sacro> Rubidium: heeelp :'(
00:46:44  *** Sacro_ [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
00:47:05  <Fantasya> youtube live on the line!!!!!!
00:47:11  <Patrick> howdo I add all trains on a shared order list to a particular group?
00:47:16  <Sacro_> Rubidium: i need help :'(
00:47:21  <Rubidium> soooluuution.
00:47:24  <Patrick> or, more specifically, upgrade only some trains on some shared order
00:47:42  <SmatZ> Patrick: goto, ctrl+click on train to share orders with
00:48:11  <SmatZ> Patrick: err... "Add shared vehicles" in the Train groups window?
00:48:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Patrick: in the "Manage List" dropdown
00:48:47  <Sacro_> Rubidium: is the soec for the file i am parsing
00:48:52  <Patrick> wait wait
00:49:02  <Patrick> you're both telling me the solution to something I almost want to do
00:49:15  <Patrick> add shared vehicles, I have to drag-drop them one at a time
00:49:21  <Eddi|zuHause> you drag one vehicle to the group
00:49:24  <Patrick> autoreplace will replace everything with that engine type
00:49:26  <Eddi|zuHause> then go to the group
00:49:43  <Patrick> aha
00:49:47  <Patrick> add shared vehicles
00:49:47  <Eddi|zuHause> click on the "add shared vehicles to this group" button
00:50:01  <Eddi|zuHause> and then set an autoreplace rule for this group
00:50:06  <Patrick> aha
00:51:13  <Patrick> chaos ensues
00:51:18  <Patrick> followed by a better train
00:52:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd much rather have a way to auto-cycle engines to the next lower train class...
00:52:53  <Patrick> hmm
00:52:54  <Patrick> why?
00:53:00  <Patrick> I'm sure you have a reason
00:53:34  <Rubidium> Sacro_: looks pretty trivial to implement (to me at least)
00:53:45  <Sacro_> Rubidium: yeah, I thought that
00:53:50  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
00:53:55  <Sacro_> But I can't work out how to get bits 0,1,2
00:54:03  <Eddi|zuHause> like if i have express trains with BR 18 and local trains with BR 38
00:54:12  <Eddi|zuHause> then i get the brand new BR 01
00:54:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i want to introduce the BR 01 to the express trains, rotate the BR 18 to the local trains, and slowly phase out the BR 38
00:54:58  <Rubidium> getting bits 0,1 and 2?
00:56:32  <Sacro_> Rubidium: yeah
00:57:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the only way to reasonably do that right now is to autoreplace the BR 18 with BR 01, and autoreplace the BR 38 with BR 18, which doesn't make a lot of sense
00:57:28  <Fantasya> 2 minutes left !!!!!
00:57:35  <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬
00:58:35  * Rubidium really wonders why Sacro can't even parse the document
01:00:03  <Fantasya> 10 seconds
01:00:19  <Fantasya> START!!!!!
01:00:24  <Sacro_> 					byte[] toReturn = new byte[2];
01:00:24  <Sacro_> 					toReturn[1] = breader.ReadByte(); // LSB
01:00:24  <Sacro_> 					toReturn[0] = breader.ReadByte(); // MSB
01:00:24  <Sacro_> 					return toReturn;
01:00:28  <Sacro_> is what i have
01:00:38  <Sacro_> but then I can't get it into a bitarray and extra the data correctly
01:00:42  <SmatZ> hmm I need op to kick for flood :-P
01:00:49  <SmatZ> Sacro_: we have for this
01:00:59  <Sacro_> SmatZ: 4 lines, leave me alone :p
01:01:14  <SmatZ> Sacro_: I knew I don't have op ;)
01:01:48  <Fantasya> katy perry
01:01:49  <Fantasya> live!!!!!!
01:01:51  <Fantasya> in youtube
01:01:52  <Fantasya> omg
01:01:55  <Fantasya> hot and cold
01:01:57  <Fantasya> OMG!!!!
01:01:59  <SmatZ> hmm
01:02:41  <SmatZ> this place is #tycoon-izing slowly :-P
01:03:04  <Eddi|zuHause> lack of acting operator, i think ;)
01:03:10  <SmatZ> hehe :)
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01:05:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro_: have you ever looked at stuff like the GB macro in openttd?
01:05:53  <Sacro_> Eddi|zuHause: nope, I don't need macros, afaik BitArray does the jkob
01:06:41  * Rubidium thinks Sacro_ has absolutely no idea how computers work and therefor what an application actually does
01:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't say you should use macros
01:06:50  <Rubidium> and what would be a sane way to implement it
01:06:57  <Sacro_> Rubidium: the freaky thing is i can imagine how to do it in m68k asm
01:07:02  *** Sacro_ is now known as Sacro
01:07:13  <Rubidium> GB is a macro?
01:07:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i meant that you might want to look at that code, because it does a conversion like the one you probably want to do
01:07:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: it used to be ;)
01:07:33  <Sacro> what do I need to convert?
01:08:53  <Sacro> and I can do BitArray.touInt
01:08:57  <Fantasya> youtube FTW
01:08:58  <Fantasya> omg
01:14:09  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: you'd probably want something like BitArray.fromInt() or Integer.toBitArray(), if those exist
01:14:32  <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: I can start a bitarray from an array of bytes
01:14:49  <Eddi|zuHause> so then what is your problem?
01:15:19  <Sacro> it does't seem to be getting the correct data
01:15:45  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it's not doing what you expect it to do?
01:15:59  <Sacro> I#m not sure if it is or not
01:16:40  <Sacro> ahh
01:16:48  <Sacro> bytes[0] & 1 is bit 0
01:17:01  <Sacro> bytes[0] & 12 is bit 1
01:17:05  <Sacro> s/12/2/
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01:32:51  <Fantasya> mythbusters on the line
01:32:55  <Fantasya> at the youtube
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01:34:01  <appe> frick
01:34:04  <appe> i got rickrolld
01:34:11  <benjamingoodger> HA! :P
01:34:15  <appe> me - internet: 0 - 1.
01:34:34  <appe> im going to fall asleep to carl sagans cosmos
01:34:36  <benjamingoodger> my internet connection is pathetic enough that I was able to read the <title> and close the tab before the flash loaded
01:34:40  <appe> that man is a hero.
01:35:12  <appe> benjamingoodger: ah. i got the lighter version: the original music video on youtube. :>
01:35:25  <benjamingoodger> ah
01:35:55  <Rubidium> Sacro: <- only took 20 minutes and should work if you make the classes and fix the typos ;)
01:36:24  <Sacro> can't use it :(
01:36:29  <appe> funny thing with rickroll is that nobody dares to click any links around teh discussion
01:36:30  * Sacro read the licence line
01:36:41  <Sacro> that will infect my library
01:37:33  <appe> oh
01:37:33  <appe> d
01:37:36  <appe> hhhj
01:37:44  <Rubidium> Sacro: poor you ;)
01:37:59  <appe> the last two lines was me chasing my paniced cat over the bed.
01:38:07  * Rubidium wonders what license Sacro would use for his stuff ;)
01:38:15  <Sacro> Rubidium: just playing with a hex editor now
01:38:22  <Sacro> looks like somehow it isn't being read
01:40:06  <Sacro> hmm, should be returning 1
01:47:03  <Sacro> ARGH DAMN I'VE FIGURED IT
01:47:08  <Sacro> though it should have broken by now
01:47:09  <Sacro> or not...
01:47:10  <Sacro> ><
01:47:18  <Sacro> no, i thought the peekchar wasn't consuming a bit
01:47:26  <Sacro> but it's not supposed to
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01:58:18  <Sacro> Rubidium: sorted it ><
01:58:31  * Sacro was doing something really stupid
02:01:45  * benjamingoodger toys with concept of saying "clearly", "as usual" or such, then decides it would be excessively cruel
02:01:55  <Sacro> benjamingoodger: mm :(
02:02:10  <Sacro> lets just say that return new byte[] {breader.ReadByte()};
02:02:13  <Sacro> was what I wanted
02:03:00  <Sacro> rather than the perhaps silly thing of returning the value as the size of the array...
02:03:18  <benjamingoodger> very well
02:03:41  <Sacro> but I could have used array.size i suppose
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02:35:01  * benjamingoodger attempts to liven-up conversation
02:35:02  <benjamingoodger>
02:35:41  <benjamingoodger> everyone is encouraged to dismantle the above and criticise it to the maximum extent permitted by applicable law
02:37:01  <Gekz> benjamingoodger: bland
02:37:03  <Gekz> like a fox.
02:38:20  <benjamingoodger> is that a compliment or an insult? I can't decide :S
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02:50:50  <benjamingoodger> ...
02:50:51  <benjamingoodger> really
02:50:54  <benjamingoodger> I can't tell
02:56:10  <benjamingoodger> I was half-hoping someone would telephone me ^_^
02:56:21  *** mortal`` [] has quit [Quit: Enohp eht no S'enilorac, Regor... Tnoflahc, mraf ynnuf eht fo erac, 'Knip Dlo' ot rewsna ruoy dnes esaelp. Egassem terces eht derevocsid tsuj evah uoy, sn]
02:57:51  <benjamingoodger> so, you have just discovered the secret message
02:58:18  <benjamingoodger> please send your reply to 'old pink', care of the funny farm, chalfont...
02:58:30  <benjamingoodger> roger, caroline's on the phone
02:58:42  <benjamingoodger> .......that must be the weirdest quit message I've ever seen
03:05:23  <Fantasya> YOUTUBE LIVE!!!
03:05:30  <Fantasya> :D
03:05:36  <benjamingoodger> gah
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04:12:19  <benjamingoodger>
04:12:23  <benjamingoodger> good grief
04:12:37  <benjamingoodger> that truly belongs on I Can't Believe They Invented It!
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05:07:13  <Sacro> my god this language sucks
05:07:19  <Sacro> I can't have a virtual bound datagridview
05:07:24  <Sacro> so i either have speed or sorting
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09:35:37  <Wolf01> hello
09:35:43  <Eddi|zuHause>
09:35:50  <Wolf01>
09:38:26  <Wolf01> uhm... I miss a time for the depot stop :|
09:38:27  <benjamingoodger> [MCR CONTROL CODE C]
09:39:35  <Wolf01> * in timetables
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10:14:14  <Fantasya> uhhhhh. hard morn ://///
10:14:34  <Fantasya> youtube live YEAAH. :)))))))
10:15:49  <benjamingoodger> *rolls eyes to maximum extent permitted by law*
10:16:02  <Rubidium> stop in depot X, wait Y and then stay stopped?
10:16:51  <Wolf01> no, stop in depot X, wait for Y and then start
10:17:14  <Fantasya> no no. stop in depot X, wait Y and then stop for X
10:17:55  <Wolf01> no, stop in depot X, wait Y and then stop for X and then start for Z
10:18:59  <Wolf01> Rubidium, like in stations, but at least stopped trains don't pay any maintenance for being stopped at depot
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10:33:59  <AgentLeMan> hello everybody
10:34:13  <Doorslammer> Hi Dr Nick
10:34:26  <AgentLeMan> °snickers°
10:34:27  <benjamingoodger> bonjour m. le Man
10:34:49  <AgentLeMan> dang, Doorslammer.... °falls off the chair laughing°
10:35:25  * benjamingoodger wants, when he has got his PhD, to add "nicolas" to his forenames
10:35:41  <benjamingoodger> and then to force people to say "hi, dr nick"
10:36:16  <AgentLeMan> or at least "dr. nic"
10:36:33  <benjamingoodger> quite
10:36:33  <AgentLeMan> alright, off to work...
10:36:54  <benjamingoodger> without the period, though... periods only go on the end of abbreviations that don't emit any letters within the word
10:37:02  <benjamingoodger> byee
10:37:20  <AgentLeMan> as i was building around my tracks, i came about a weird behaviour which includes a station and °drumroll° a train
10:37:42  <AgentLeMan> nah, i meant this other "work"
10:37:45  <benjamingoodger> rather than a hovercraft, presumably
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10:37:51  <benjamingoodger> ah...
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10:37:55  <AgentLeMan> exactly :o)
10:38:03  <benjamingoodger> I see
10:38:16  <AgentLeMan> i just try to describe the matter in whole first.
10:38:23  <benjamingoodger> so every religion is wrong!
10:38:39  <benjamingoodger> I bet yorick wishes he hadn't missed your proof
10:38:48  <benjamingoodger> ...anyway, returning to openttd...
10:38:54  * yorick will just read the logs.
10:38:58  <AgentLeMan> it seems, there is a fidderence, between trainstations that are 1 and 2 tiles long and trainstations, which are 3 tiles long or longer
10:39:00  <benjamingoodger> ah, foiled
10:39:10  <benjamingoodger> oh?
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10:39:38  <AgentLeMan> oh, and i dont mean the length °grins°
10:40:30  <benjamingoodger> what?
10:40:34  <benjamingoodger> besides the length...
10:42:16  <AgentLeMan> im testing something to get it more clear.
10:42:30  <benjamingoodger> what is it vaguely about? :P
10:43:42  <AgentLeMan> it seems, if a station is longer than 2 tiles, a train that has the option to drive thorugh that station and along a track that includes no station, decides to  drive along the part of track without station
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10:44:09  <AgentLeMan> if its 1 or 2 tiles long, that station, it drives through that station instead
10:45:07  <benjamingoodger> is this "1 or 2 tiles long" as in "1 or 2 tiles long", or "1 or 2 tiles long" as in "shorter than 3 tiles, which is the length of the train"?
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10:46:20  <benjamingoodger> both sensible, the latter seems to make more sense
10:46:30  <Wolf01> I downloaded the ottd-useful 2.0, where should I extract it? (I use VC80)
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10:47:15  <AgentLeMan> tracklayout : station A --+-- station C --+-- station B    ( the + indicates the switch, where the nonstation track connects to on both sides )
10:47:39  <AgentLeMan> the orders are to go from A to B. the train is just the engine, no cars
10:48:05  <benjamingoodger> ah
10:48:32  <benjamingoodger> is the route that avoids the station shorter at all?
10:50:47  <AgentLeMan> it is longer. imagine a "U"-layout. station A and station B are at the ends of that U, station C in the middle. the stationless track is just "below" that U, if this makes sense ( i could start a mp-server though )
10:51:01  <benjamingoodger> yep, makes perfect sense
10:51:25  <benjamingoodger> hmm
10:51:47  <benjamingoodger> probably best start that mp server if you don't mind
10:51:53  <benjamingoodger> this needs poking at
10:52:16  <AgentLeMan> what i really find weird is... if it would only happen, if the station is shorter than 2, it would not really make sense still, but at least its then something. but 1 AND 2 tiles?
10:52:51  <benjamingoodger> well, 1/2 length stations are far more likely to be waypoints
10:52:51  <Alberth> AgentLeMan: you can try making the 2 tile station path longer
10:53:23  <benjamingoodger> there is a substantially increased likelihood that the longer station will be occupied
10:53:31  <benjamingoodger> what pathfinder are you using?
10:53:50  <AgentLeMan> the recommended. and its a testenvironment, no other trains
10:54:23  <Eddi|zuHause> AgentLeMan: stations that are not in the orders get pathfinder penalty
10:54:43  <Eddi|zuHause> and the penalty gets added for each station tile
10:54:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so the penalty is higher for 3 length platforms than for 2 length platforms
10:55:06  <AgentLeMan> wow :o))
10:55:15  <benjamingoodger> aha!
10:55:26  <Eddi|zuHause> so the platform looks like it is 3 times as long as a normal track
10:55:28  <benjamingoodger> see, whitebox > blackbox testing
10:56:01  <AgentLeMan> so, after 2 tiles the penalty kinda reaches an amount that is enough to make the train go the longer way
10:56:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
10:57:04  <Eddi|zuHause> but you can adjust this penalty
10:57:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "list_patches yapf" on the console or something
10:58:22  <Eddi|zuHause> a normal track tile has a penalty of 100
10:58:44  <AgentLeMan> thank you :o) that makes total sense. i tested around for that like hours and was a bit confused
11:01:25  <AgentLeMan> hm... first, the stationless track, was just a 2 tiles away paralell track to the stationtrack.
11:01:54  <AgentLeMan> now it is 20 tiles away
11:02:24  <AgentLeMan> and it still dont drives through the station
11:03:34  <AgentLeMan> -dont +doesnt
11:05:02  <yorick> drive*
11:05:11  <AgentLeMan> yip
11:05:25  <AgentLeMan> or more like...
11:05:39  <AgentLeMan> and it still !drives through the station
11:05:41  <AgentLeMan> ;o)
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11:10:01  <AgentLeMan> ( if interested, the servername is "testing" )
11:10:24  <AgentLeMan> ( password is the same as the name )
11:12:16  * benjamingoodger engages sleeve-rollers
11:13:38  <benjamingoodger> version mismatch
11:13:41  <benjamingoodger> buggeh
11:13:47  <AgentLeMan> uhm, its 063
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11:13:56  <benjamingoodger> yeah, I'm on 062
11:14:01  <AgentLeMan> oh
11:14:29  <yorick> 0.6.2 is buggy!
11:14:33  <AgentLeMan> weird, i dont even see a connection attempt
11:14:54  <yorick> AgentLeMan, version check is before the connection attempt
11:14:55  <AgentLeMan> i thought, there would be something like "connection not aceppted : error : version mismatch"
11:14:59  <AgentLeMan> ah
11:15:30  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
11:15:35  <AgentLeMan> so the version gets advertised too. nifty.
11:15:38  <benjamingoodger> may be buggy, but it's still the last one to be in Debian before lenny got frozen, so I'm stuck with it for the next month or so
11:15:57  <yorick> benjamingoodger: just compile the new one
11:16:07  <benjamingoodger> cba
11:16:24  <yorick> ?
11:16:31  <benjamingoodger> can't be arsed
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11:17:02  <benjamingoodger> i.e., I don't really care enough to go through the tedious charade of compilation
11:17:29  <yorick> svn co svn:// && ./configure && make
11:17:32  <yorick> how tedious
11:17:43  <Qball> yorick: forgot apt-get build-dep openttd
11:17:45  <Qball> if it is in apt
11:17:58  <yorick> Qball, I don't have apt
11:18:07  <Qball> well benjamingoodger does
11:18:12  <benjamingoodger> 'tis, hence why I mentioned debian several times
11:18:43  <yorick> apt :o
11:18:48  <benjamingoodger> also, after make is finished, I have to run make install, and that means authenticating as root and then changing directories again
11:18:56  <benjamingoodger> and then I have to remove the compiled files
11:19:03  <Qball> benjamingoodger: don't have to make install
11:19:04  <yorick> make install :o
11:19:07  <Qball> you can run it from the bin dir
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11:19:24  <yorick> ^^
11:19:44  <benjamingoodger> I want it in $root, or, again, it's too much effort to find the binary and double-click it
11:20:06  <Qball> benjamingoodger: go back to windows
11:20:06  <benjamingoodger> and I'll end up forgetting anyway
11:20:09  <Qball> lazy bum
11:20:39  <benjamingoodger> well, yes
11:20:43  <benjamingoodger> one of the reasons I use linux
11:21:00  <yorick> ...
11:21:02  <benjamingoodger> I start the machine, log in, and all of the applications I use start automatically
11:21:10  <yorick> YOU CAN DO THAT WITH WINDOWS
11:21:12  <Tefad> windows can do that too..
11:21:15  <Tefad> i do it at work
11:21:17  <Tefad> : D
11:21:21  <benjamingoodger> I know, but it's so tedious to set up
11:21:25  <yorick> ITS NOT
11:21:31  <Tefad> uh, drag/drop to startup in start menu?
11:21:37  <yorick> just drag the shortcut > startup in start menu
11:21:42  <mrfrenzy> yorick, Tefad: do not feed the troll
11:21:43  <Qball> lol
11:21:51  <Tefad> mrfrenzy: heeeee
11:21:53  <benjamingoodger> I'm not trolling, for goodness' sake
11:22:08  <yorick> there you did it again
11:22:12  <Tefad> haha
11:22:18  <Qball> may the troll be with you
11:22:49  <yorick> linux-fanboy-without-obvious-reason :o
11:23:15  <Tefad> i'm not so much a linux fanboy as i am an open source fanboy
11:23:19  <benjamingoodger> I'm telling entirely the truth. I use linux because I'm lazy. it updates itself automatically and doesn't require routine reinstalls, reboots or defrags
11:23:39  <Tefad> i use linux only because of it being more compatible with my hardware than freebsd
11:23:56  <yorick> defrags stopped being needed with xp
11:23:59  <Qball> I use linux because it is the lesser evill
11:24:07  <AgentLeMan> the other thing i saw was... there also is something with stationlength, trainlength and reversing the train.
11:24:08  <valhallasw> yorick: more specifically: with ntfs
11:24:08  <yorick> auto-update is in XPsp2
11:24:12  <Tefad> benjamingoodger: my linux doesn't update itself.
11:24:20  <Tefad> hell my linux breaks itself all the time : D
11:24:41  <yorick> I never needed to reinstall things
11:24:54  <benjamingoodger> apt goes a little further than windows update, methinks
11:25:05  <Tefad> i stopped using windows because of BSODs and other horrible things
11:25:14  <yorick> no condescending application managers...
11:25:30  <valhallasw> for some reason people seem to think windows has not been developed since win98
11:25:39  <AgentLeMan> it seems, if the train is at least 1 tile shorter than the station ( station being 5 tiles long ), it drives through that station on its way to the next station, else it reverses inside the station.
11:25:54  <benjamingoodger> considering windows vista (pre-sp1), that's entirely forgiveable
11:26:14  <Tefad> like uninstalling a wifi driver which removes a vital windows component causing a dialog to pop up even in safe mode, before the login prompt: Windows is missing ____.dll please [fix it] and [restart your computer]."
11:26:18  <benjamingoodger> one wonders why microsoft decided to remove interruptive multitasking from the original vista
11:26:31  <Tefad> eehehehe. nice OS war convo in here
11:26:32  <benjamingoodger> [joke, before flames]
11:26:46  <benjamingoodger> actually, it's about which OS is friendlier to lazy bums
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11:27:13  <Tefad> that would be ubuntu rhel mandriva OS X XP Vista.
11:27:21  <Tefad> i guess centos fits in there
11:27:28  <Tefad> let me know if i missed any
11:27:32  <AgentLeMan> so at a 5 tiles-station, an 8 and 9 wagon long train reverses, anything less doesnt.
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11:27:38  <benjamingoodger> which end is ubuntu at?
11:27:43  <Tefad> ease of use
11:27:47  <benjamingoodger> ah
11:27:57  <Tefad> ubuntu pisses me off though so i can't use it
11:27:57  <AgentLeMan> which i dont quite understand.
11:28:04  <yorick> SmatZ: you couldn't guess I was using windows?
11:28:07  <benjamingoodger> in that case, I'll place debian just after ubuntu
11:28:29  <benjamingoodger> and also, install gentoo after osx
11:28:29  <Tefad> oh, my list had no significant sequence
11:28:33  <benjamingoodger> oh, I see
11:28:36  <Tefad> gentoo is HORRIBLE
11:28:39  <valhallasw> debian friendly for lazy bums... right. I'll go back to watching Stephen Fry in America
11:28:42  <benjamingoodger> ah, we agree ^^
11:28:47  <Tefad> i use gentoo.
11:29:26  <Tefad> i might switch to freebsd if i learn it's compatible with my hardware
11:29:26  <AgentLeMan> °yawns at useless "xy is better"-talks, as its just a matter of personal preferences or insulting people one doesnt know even°
11:29:42  <Qball> lets try vim vs emacs
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11:29:58  <benjamingoodger> gentoo, for my experience, was the very definition of lazy-unfriendliness, as it broke every time I installed a new gcc... of course, I was probably doing something wrong ¬.¬
11:30:20  <Tefad> indeed.
11:30:34  <Tefad> hell, right now it breaks itself with normal use
11:30:39  <benjamingoodger> :D
11:30:43  <yorick> my windows doesn't break when I install a new gcc :p
11:30:51  <benjamingoodger> this is true.
11:31:02  <Tefad> they masked a new version of their package manager so that it won't install, however to update your system properly you need this new version! the old one bugs out.
11:31:11  <Qball> Tefad: :D
11:31:15  <benjamingoodger> heheh
11:31:27  <Qball> sounds like gentoy allright
11:31:42  <benjamingoodger> sounds slightly better than the ubuntu upgrade path, which boils down to "swear at it for a few hours, then reinstall from clean"...
11:31:57  <benjamingoodger> anyway, the point is, I'm too lazy to install and compile openttd for the sake of a version bump of 0.01
11:32:00  <Tefad> heh my ubuntu logic is this: try to update. wait a day. try to update.
11:32:02  <Qball> another automatrix user
11:32:29  <benjamingoodger> nope, just standard gentoo
11:32:29  <benjamingoodger> *ubuntu
11:32:29  <benjamingoodger> blast
11:32:51  <Tefad> it's ok. i get them mixed up when speaking sometimes.
11:32:57  <Tefad> too many u/oo sounds.
11:33:10  <yorick> benjamingoodger: 0.0.1 means the difference between playing newer servers and not playing newer servers
11:33:21  <benjamingoodger> I don't actually play multiplayer
11:33:29  <SmatZ> Tefad: it's kind of broken, but can be solved with emerge --nodeps
11:33:39  <benjamingoodger> of course, that was back in 2006. after ubuntu 6.10 came out [ask about my rant on that thing's development cycle!] I switched to debian in disgust
11:33:57  <Tefad> the lib_err thing?
11:34:06  <Tefad> e2fs_tools or whatever
11:34:17  <Tefad> i fixed mine weeks ago and muddled around .. broke my wget
11:34:23  <Tefad> before downloading the needed files...
11:34:40  <Qball> what I love about debian is the fact that you run the latest software, from 2 years ago
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11:34:48  <SmatZ> I didn't have serious problems...
11:35:17  <SmatZ> though the easiest solution is to go with ~arch for portage
11:35:25  <Tefad> mmmm testing.
11:35:30  <benjamingoodger> Qball: that's a tedious old slur that has long since been relegated to the status of "baseless argument munition"
11:35:33  <Rubidium> Qball: use either testing or sid?
11:36:07  <benjamingoodger> servers can quite happily use software from 2 years ago. if they had to use today's software, they'd be really scared
11:36:16  <Qball> :D
11:36:20  <Qball> always works :D
11:36:30  <benjamingoodger> non-servers use either testing or unstable depending on their foolhardiness
11:36:34  <benjamingoodger> and/or skill.
11:37:35  <Tefad> SmatZ: hai.
11:37:41  <AgentLeMan> Rubidium, do you maybe know, why at a 5 tiles-station, an 8 and 9 wagon long train reverses inside that station, anything less takes an alternative route? in different words, as long as there is a full empty tile, they drive through.
11:40:50  <SmatZ> hello Tefad :P
11:42:43  <benjamingoodger> hmm
11:42:50  <benjamingoodger> let's have another argument
11:43:07  <benjamingoodger> which is the best european country?
11:43:12  <Qball> no no
11:43:15  <Qball> vim vs emacs
11:43:18  <Qball> gnome vs kde
11:43:22  <Qball> nano vs ed
11:43:24  <benjamingoodger> well, I have to live in one of them in three years
11:43:35  <Qball> benjamingoodger: poor sod
11:43:36  <benjamingoodger> might as well get the informed opinions of those who know about them
11:43:58  <petern> britain :D
11:44:11  <benjamingoodger> that's the one I'm fleeing!
11:44:20  <Qball> HA HA HA
11:44:32  <benjamingoodger> though the :D probably means you've whoised me, and therefore are saying that to be ironic
11:44:49  <Qball> I only whowas somebody
11:46:06  <petern> i may have done long ago
11:46:15  <Fantasya>
11:46:34  <Fantasya> best after katy perry from youtube live :)))))))))))))))))))
11:46:45  <benjamingoodger> oh god, he's returned
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11:47:02  *** Fantasya was kicked from #openttd by petern [******* can advertise themselves]
11:47:03  <yorick> Fantasya: stop spamming useless youtube links, please
11:47:13  <yorick> ^^
11:47:14  <Qball> it is a new irc meme
11:47:15  <benjamingoodger> too late, poor yorick
11:47:16  <Qball> I think
11:47:21  <petern> alas!
11:47:24  <benjamingoodger> ....I knew him, horatio
11:47:24  <Qball> spamming youtube links
11:47:34  <yorick> should be put back > topic
11:48:14  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!*a@78.59.192.*] by petern
11:48:28  <AgentLeMan> hm, i guess thats a "no" then.
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11:50:54  <yorick> m, banning whole ranges?
11:51:17  <yorick> I'm banned from #nl on ircnet because someone else banned my whole static ip range :/
11:51:49  <benjamingoodger> cruel
11:52:03  <Alberth> and cannot even speak Dutch here
11:52:05  <Eddi|zuHause> <benjamingoodger> I want it in $root, or, again, it's too much effort to find the binary and double-click it <- i have a ~/bin, where i can put binaries without being root
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11:58:13  <yorick> DrawArrowButtons doesn't fully respect the button_colour
11:58:43  <yorick> i.e. if you give it a different colour than yellow, it will still overlay the disabled buttons with a yellow shade
12:01:04  <petern> fix it then
12:01:08  <yorick>
12:01:11  <yorick> there you go :)
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12:15:48  <Wolf01> petern, I downloaded the new ottd-useful, where should I extract it?
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12:19:38  <AgentLeMan> extract the file and copy:
12:19:39  <AgentLeMan> * The contents of the include folder to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\include\.
12:19:53  <AgentLeMan> * The contents of the library folder to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual Studio 9.0\VC\lib\.
12:19:58  <AgentLeMan> .
12:21:54  <AgentLeMan> as described at
12:23:40  <Wolf01> oh, thank you, I downloaded it from the home page link, I was expecting to find a readme in the archive
12:23:52  <AgentLeMan> yes, sadly there isnt.
12:25:32  <AgentLeMan> anyone has here knowledge about physics or mechanics regarding the rollresistance of wheels?
12:28:04  *** Osai^zZz is now known as Osai
12:31:39  <petern> all i know is that 'realistic' acceleration sucks :p
12:32:52  <AgentLeMan> °grins°
12:34:52  <AgentLeMan> but.. no, you dont think really it sucks. imagine, you would go instantly to 55mph with your car and that the bus with which you dirive to work, would stop instantly at the next station... especially that yo udont want, with that 400 lbs lady sitting behind you ;o)
12:37:26  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r14609 /trunk/src/settings_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use supplied button colour instead of hardcoded yellow, for 'greyed out' arrow buttons. (Yorick)
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12:46:05  <xand> is it possible to get openttd to use smp? it currently uses 100% of one of my cores but none of the other
12:47:05  <petern> no
12:48:57  <Patrick> saving uses threads
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12:53:38  <xand> I guess that's what I get for having such big maps/1000 vehicles :|
12:54:31  <yorick> petern: close ;)
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13:29:30  <AgentLeMan> °waves° a good day/night to you all
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13:42:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14610 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt spritecache.cpp spriteloader/grf.cpp):
13:42:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#2415]: possible stack corruption when reading corrupted sprites.
13:42:16  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Change: harden the sprite reading routine against corrupt sprites.
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14:17:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14611 /trunk/ (6 files in 2 dirs):
14:17:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Fix (r13437)[FS#2421]: Store the age of a house in the map array instead of the construction year.
14:17:53  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: Note: Savegames from r13437 to now are broken and have a age of 255 years for a lot houses.
14:35:39  <Wolf01> if I want to allow construction of uphill tracks on diagonal slopes, how I should modify the allowed track bits?
14:36:10  <mrfrenzy> Is that physically possible?
14:37:09  <benjamingoodger> so long as the track doesn't intersect with the land... *shrug*
14:37:20  <frosch123> Wolf01: modify GetRailFoundation and ApplyFoundationToSlope and DrawFoundation
14:37:51  <Wolf01> yes I know, I and a friend are trying for about 1 hour to do something
14:38:20  <mrfrenzy> I mean is it possible IRL
14:38:31  <benjamingoodger> so long as the track doesn't intersect with the land
14:39:07  <mrfrenzy> aah you mean you have to level enough land on the slope ofcourse so the track is level
14:39:07  * Wolf01
14:39:26  <Wolf01> we want to allow this
14:39:42  <benjamingoodger> that'll easily work IRL
14:39:46  <mrfrenzy> aha, that's not what I was thinking at all
14:39:54  <mrfrenzy> indeed it is
14:40:18  <SmatZ> Wolf01: I had a simple patch for it somewhere
14:40:25  <SmatZ> but I don't have anymore :-p
14:40:27  <frosch123> Wolf01: you will have to concentrate the uphill track on one tile, else you will get a lot of trouble
14:41:13  <SmatZ> also, you will have "double steepness" and uphill-stright combinations
14:41:13  <frosch123> to be precise: the slope with one corner raised, as the three-corner-raised slope can already have a track it that direction
14:41:26  <SmatZ> or you will have to merge those two trackbits into one, blahblah
14:41:34  <SmatZ> as frosch123 says :)
14:41:43  <Char> whee
14:41:48  <Char> i got too much music i guess
14:42:22  <Char> kinda sucks to sort it :P
14:44:39  * yorick would like irregular-shaped windows
14:55:28  <benjamingoodger> how irregular?
14:56:13  <benjamingoodger> if they aren't perfectly square, they're technically irregular already
14:57:21  <yorick> not rectangular either
14:57:38  <benjamingoodger> pentagonal?
14:57:40  <benjamingoodger> hexagonal?
14:57:43  <benjamingoodger> septagonal?
14:57:59  <yorick> any of those
14:58:26  <benjamingoodger> for prefix in latin_numeric_prefixes: print "%sagonal" % prefix
15:00:31  <benjamingoodger> why?
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15:06:57  <benjamingoodger> hey glx
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15:16:56  <yorick> I got a 2-places at once-train :p
15:17:25  <SmatZ> once-train?
15:18:05  <benjamingoodger> I think he's trying to say he's built a train that is in two places at once
15:18:11  <yorick> loc in depot, wagons somewhere else
15:18:17  <yorick> teleporting fail
15:18:27  <SmatZ> ahh thanks
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15:23:21  <yorick> SmatZ: could you look at and see why it does not teleport the whole train?
15:25:09  <frosch123> GetNextVehicle skips articulated parts and rear heads of dual-headed engines
15:25:35  <SmatZ> yorick: GetNextVehicle I guess
15:25:37  <SmatZ> ....
15:25:39  <SmatZ> :-d
15:25:48  <frosch123> well, maybe rear heads are only skipped by GetNextUnit
15:25:51  <frosch123> cannot remember
15:25:55  <yorick> it doesn't even teleport the wagons...
15:26:19  <SmatZ> you can always do Vehicle *u = v->First()
15:26:22  <frosch123> lol, maybe you should modify u
15:26:37  <SmatZ> and use u = u->Next()
15:26:44  <SmatZ> haha
15:26:52  <SmatZ> you are reading 'v' in that while loop :)
15:26:53  <SmatZ> not u
15:27:05  <SmatZ> *do/while loop
15:27:09  <yorick> ;o
15:27:57  <frosch123> this way it only works for cruxnores
15:29:05  <SmatZ> why is frosch123 always faster than I :-p
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15:30:44  <frosch123> I have just freshly lunched
15:31:19  <SmatZ> :)
15:31:34  <frosch123> maybe that's why you are faster usually
15:31:54  <SmatZ> :-D
15:32:08  <SmatZ> I don't lunch that often
15:32:42  <frosch123> wasn't you the one with four dinners per day?
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15:40:24  <yorick> ah, thanks, that works
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15:54:10  <SmatZ> can any native speaker check this? thanks :)
15:54:21  <SmatZ> *native English speaker
15:54:49  <benjamingoodger> sure
15:55:32  <SmatZ> :)
15:55:40  <SmatZ> is it fine, benjamingoodger?
15:55:45  <benjamingoodger> I'd use "Force use of" possibly
15:55:48  <benjamingoodger> otherwise fine
15:56:28  <SmatZ> benjamingoodger: is it in the text I added?
15:56:47  <benjamingoodger> ah
15:56:49  <benjamingoodger> erm
15:57:00  <SmatZ> benjamingoodger: thanks :)
15:57:14  <benjamingoodger> I'd put "there is an argument, it is not empty, and it is exactly 1 char long" for clarity
15:57:20  <frosch123> yup, better do not change exiting texts, the raised english quality might confuse others :p
15:57:36  <benjamingoodger> though what you've put is technically correct, it's not idiomatically correct... stupid language
15:57:54  <SmatZ> hehe
16:01:36  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14612 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Change: force the argument given to '-i' parameter to be valid. Accept '2', too
16:01:57  <benjamingoodger> woop, I'm contributing to an open-source project
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16:02:21  <SmatZ> thanks for help, benjamingoodger ;-)
16:02:33  <benjamingoodger> that's all right
16:02:45  <yorick> don't feed the troll...
16:02:53  <benjamingoodger> *glares*
16:03:16  <SmatZ> :)
16:03:19  <yorick> now he feels all special
16:03:25  <yorick> look what you've done
16:03:28  <SmatZ> :-P
16:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry, yorick, we only feed you on fridays
16:03:34  <SmatZ> :)
16:03:48  <benjamingoodger> ^_^
16:05:02  <benjamingoodger> do feel free to throw any more snippets of english under my bridge
16:05:24  <yorick> go be a translator
16:05:25  <benjamingoodger> I shall emerge, ask a riddle, and then allow you passage, having scribbled down some hasty corrections
16:05:32  <SmatZ> :)
16:05:34  <benjamingoodger> I'd quite like to
16:05:48  <yorick> you'd translate english to english
16:05:51  <benjamingoodger> the problem being, I don't speak any other languages properly
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16:06:07  <benjamingoodger> I can usually translate Google Translate English to British English, though
16:06:19  <benjamingoodger> not sure that's a legitimate career prospect.
16:07:47  <yorick> google translate "in Dutch" to english: "In English"
16:08:15  <yorick> with language recognition ;)
16:08:16  <benjamingoodger> indeed so.
16:08:32  <benjamingoodger> yes, the language recognition's a bit off
16:08:49  <benjamingoodger> I once asked it for the German for "pyjamas" and it told me it couldn't translate Malay
16:09:16  <yorick> it also has it with "in het Nederlands."
16:09:50  <benjamingoodger> excellent
16:11:04  <appe> o/
16:11:08  <appe> evening.
16:11:33  <benjamingoodger> hej appe
16:12:11  <appe> everything 'rite? :>
16:12:27  <benjamingoodger> yorick has decided to hate me
16:12:32  <benjamingoodger> otherwise, yes, fine
16:12:41  <yorick> has he?
16:13:18  <benjamingoodger> well, you keep calling me a troll, and asking people not to talk to me
16:13:36  <benjamingoodger> I can only imagine you have some sort of dislike for me...
16:13:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that's his way of telling that he feels lonely and needs someone to love him
16:14:17  <benjamingoodger> ah, in that case I can fully sympathise
16:14:34  <benjamingoodger> nobody is permitted to talk to yorick, either :)
16:14:43  <yorick> :/
16:15:11  <Eddi|zuHause> don't worry, he's on half the channel's ignore list anyway :p
16:17:05  <benjamingoodger> aww
16:17:51  <benjamingoodger> hmm, that raises worrying questions about my ignore-list incident frequency
16:17:55  <frosch123> +				/* Clear the land as town to not affect town rating, and to not clear protected buildings */ <- "to not" or "not to" ?
16:18:25  <benjamingoodger> I'm more worried about "clear the land as town"
16:19:13  <benjamingoodger> but "to not" and "not to" are, generally, freely interchangeable --- though "not to" is slightly more standard
16:19:30  *** Zahl [] has joined #openttd
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16:20:59  <appe> hm
16:21:02  <appe> familiar with linux?
16:21:14  <benjamingoodger> but if you change it to "not to", then you need to put "so as" in front, for idiom purposes
16:21:18  <benjamingoodger> appe: yeah, why?
16:21:20  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here uses linux
16:21:33  <appe> this server is really old. and i cant remember what ftps i have installed
16:21:39  <appe> i think its called a 'daemon'
16:21:49  <appe> and it suddenly doesnt work (i cant connect as usual)
16:21:51  <benjamingoodger> sounds about right
16:22:03  <benjamingoodger> the daemon part, I mean
16:22:24  <appe> how do i check what daemon's are "on"?
16:22:38  <yorick> deamons*
16:22:40  <Eddi|zuHause> ps -A
16:22:42  <appe> oh
16:22:58  <appe> 2204 ?        00:00:00 vsftpd
16:23:02  <appe> i guess that's the one
16:23:05  <appe> "that's"?
16:23:08  <benjamingoodger> yep
16:23:44  <appe> hm
16:23:45  <appe> well
16:24:02  <benjamingoodger> suggest restarting it?
16:24:04  <appe> oh!
16:24:07  <appe> it works, localy.
16:24:17  <benjamingoodger> /etc/init.d/vsftpd restart
16:24:17  <Eddi|zuHause> then it's a firewall issue ;)
16:24:20  <benjamingoodger> possibly
16:24:28  <benjamingoodger> ah, yes, eddi is likely correct
16:24:42  <appe> ok, here we go
16:25:14  <appe> ok
16:25:21  <appe> i need to change the accounts
16:25:24  *** Swallow [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:25:25  <appe> since it directs me to /
16:25:25  *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow
16:25:28  <appe> wich isnt that good.
16:25:28  <appe> :D
16:25:59  <Fantasya> Lithuania 3 place in young eurovision contest :D
16:26:27  <benjamingoodger> I thought you were viciously reprimanded for talking about music events earlier?
16:26:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i knew clearingt the ignore entry so early was a bad idea...
16:27:01  <Fantasya> :DD you dont like music?
16:27:19  <benjamingoodger> eddi: XD
16:27:30  <Fantasya> ./j music
16:27:31  <Fantasya> :DD
16:27:34  <appe> hmz. the port is open, but i still cant connect via my external ip.
16:28:41  <appe> aha
16:28:44  <Prof_Frink> Fantasya: Music is good. Eurovision is not music.
16:28:48  <appe> i found it. my linksys router's been messing around
16:28:51  <benjamingoodger> :)
16:28:59  <appe> i guess three years is what it can handle.
16:29:00  <appe> :>
16:29:14  <appe> bah
16:29:14  <appe> no
16:29:16  <appe> it wasnt.
16:29:18  <benjamingoodger> think yourself lucky. some people dream of seeing a linksys router
16:29:28  <appe> p21 is and has always been open for the server internal ip.
16:29:43  <appe> benjamingoodger: how come? it's not like it's expencive.
16:29:50  <appe> expensive?
16:29:53  <appe> c/s
16:29:57  <benjamingoodger> expensive
16:30:00  <appe> ah, ok.
16:30:13  <benjamingoodger> it's more expensive than £0.00, which was the cost of the crappy router my ISP supplied
16:30:26  <appe> ah, hehe.
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16:30:43  <appe> i guess we swedes are more used to buy our own inet gear
16:31:05  <benjamingoodger> well, I'd happily buy my own router if I could get a decent internet connection
16:31:18  <benjamingoodger> I'm stuck with 6 Mbit ADSL
16:31:32  <benjamingoodger> with bandwidth caps
16:31:33  <appe> oh, that's not neat.
16:31:45  <appe> i pay 70SEK for uncapped gigabit
16:31:48  <appe> botways
16:31:51  <appe> bothways*
16:32:00  <benjamingoodger> I know, damn it! :(
16:32:17  <appe> 70SEK is about ten dollars, i think.
16:32:24  <benjamingoodger> I'm british
16:32:33  <benjamingoodger> but I'm aware of how ridiculously small 70 SEK is
16:33:06  <benjamingoodger> my connection costs 375 SEK at current exchange rates
16:33:13  <appe> yeah
16:33:28  <appe> thats a normal price for 8-24Mb DSL here to, though.
16:33:28  <yorick> I'm stuck with 20Mbit ADSL2+ without bantwith caps
16:33:29  <appe> to/too
16:33:45  <benjamingoodger> what else is there?
16:33:53  <appe> though, i wouldnt mind 10/10 instead of 1000/1000, as long as there is no cap.
16:33:54  <yorick> band*
16:34:04  <appe> benjamingoodger: what else is what?
16:34:16  <benjamingoodger> DSL costs 375 SEK pm
16:34:26  <benjamingoodger> you're paying 70 SEK pm for something better
16:34:27  <De_Ghosty> how high is ur cap on gigabit
16:34:30  <benjamingoodger> what is that?
16:34:39  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: frosch * r14613 /trunk/src/ (industry_cmd.cpp tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2420]: When building industries, clear the tiles as OWNER_TOWN instead of the founder to take care of protected buildings and to not get stressed by town ratings.
16:35:08  <appe> De_Ghosty: nothing.
16:35:23  <benjamingoodger> is it fibre-optic?
16:35:32  <appe> i have actually never seen any caps on any bb here.
16:35:43  <benjamingoodger> cat5e cables buried underground?
16:35:44  <De_Ghosty> can't get gigabit without fiber or really short cat6
16:35:50  <benjamingoodger> some sort of weird satellite system?
16:36:05  <De_Ghosty> not that i know of
16:36:14  <appe> De_Ghosty: fiber to the basement, and cat6 up to the wall sockets.
16:36:24  <benjamingoodger> actually, that was me
16:36:31  <appe> i think it's a splitter (or what ever they call it) on every new floor.
16:36:32  <yorick> they're making fiber here, but we can't use it
16:38:22  <mrfrenzy> you can run 10 Gbit up to 55 meters on Cat6
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16:42:00  <appe> holy cow.
16:42:08  <appe> the english inbreeding is getting more or less a fact.
16:42:31  <yorick> mh, if there are trains on a bankrupting company's tracks, and there is no where to teleport them to, should they be sold, or deleted?
16:42:39  <benjamingoodger> only in plymouth, cornwall, wales, somerset, and north scotlant
16:42:58  * appe needs to poo.
16:43:13  <Prof_Frink> benjamingoodger: You missed Norfolk.
16:43:16  <benjamingoodger> yorick: redirected to depot if possible and then sold, otherwise deleted
16:43:31  <benjamingoodger> ah, yes, norfolk
16:44:52  <Prof_Frink> And technically in Wales ad north Scotland it ain't english inbreeding.
16:45:17  <benjamingoodger> this will piss off a tremendous number of people, but wales is part of england still
16:45:40  <Prof_Frink> Yeah, but say that in the wrong pub in Wales...
16:45:49  <benjamingoodger> well, yeah
16:45:54  <benjamingoodger> but that pub is filled with morons
16:46:04  <Prof_Frink> inbred morons.
16:46:05  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: smatz * r14614 /trunk/src/ (tree_cmd.cpp tree_map.h): -Codechange [FS#2423]: GetTreeCount() should behave as its name and documentation imply. Remove unused SetTreeCount() (PhilSophus)
16:46:14  <benjamingoodger> but you're right about scotland; though I think appe was referring to great britain in general, since england/scotland isn't sufficiently different to warrant separation by foreigners
16:46:22  <benjamingoodger> we just have different accents, really
16:46:37  <benjamingoodger> oh, and scots are fatter
16:47:58  <appe> ehm
16:48:18  <benjamingoodger> yeeeeis?
16:48:31  <appe> it was rather prejudice
16:48:36  <appe> if used correct
16:48:37  <appe> but
16:48:38  <appe> yes.
16:49:13  <appe> 20:16 < benjamingoodger> this will piss off a tremendous number of people, but wales is part of england still
16:49:16  <appe> 20:16 < Prof_Frink> Yeah, but say that in the wrong pub in Wales...
16:49:20  <appe> is that seriosly a problem these days?
16:49:23  <appe> talk about stubborn.
16:49:24  <appe> :D
16:49:25  <benjamingoodger> oh yes
16:49:39  <benjamingoodger> welsh people continue setting fire to englishmen's holiday caravans
16:49:43  <appe> bah
16:49:45  <appe> lame.
16:49:54  <appe> patriotism makes people weak.
16:50:04  <appe> especially when living on the same got damn island.
16:50:05  <benjamingoodger> it's not patriotism, it's nationalism
16:50:15  <appe> in my book, that's the same thing.
16:50:33  <Prof_Frink> benjamingoodger: There's nothing wrong with burning caravans.
16:50:59  <benjamingoodger> only when they're blocking the third lane of the M5
16:54:17  <Prof_Frink> Or generally blocking the A5
16:54:36  <appe> the national party had a big demonstration when i was in london
16:54:51  <appe> people in side walks were actually doin seige hail.
16:55:00  <appe> we kind of left.
16:55:01  <appe> :D
16:55:11  <benjamingoodger> the BNP?
16:55:15  <appe> ye
16:55:21  <benjamingoodger> ah... those wankers
16:55:30  <benjamingoodger> it's illegal to belong to that party if you're a policeman
16:55:32  <benjamingoodger> that's how bad they are
16:55:37  <appe> well
16:55:40  <appe> great.
16:55:47  <appe> we have the same issue here in sweden
16:55:58  <appe> the nationalistic partie (word) is on the up-rizing
16:56:14  <appe> since they promise all the racist hillbillys free'r taxes and stuff.
16:56:17  <appe> fuckheads.
16:56:26  <benjamingoodger> hmm
16:56:33  <benjamingoodger> surely people don't take them seriously?
16:56:43  <appe> i bet they beleive them selfs to have good reasons, and i dont think there are any nazies in the partie top
16:56:50  <appe> though, all the nazi fuck heads join them.
16:57:21  <benjamingoodger> I mean, the BNP may be headline-grabbers, but they haven't ever won any seats in parliament
16:57:27  <appe> oh, ok.
16:57:34  <benjamingoodger> or even got close
16:57:42  <appe> they are getting closer here
16:57:48  <appe> but it might be temporary
16:57:51  <appe> or at least i hope so
16:57:55  <appe> i "partie" right?
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16:58:10  <benjamingoodger> party
16:58:13  <benjamingoodger> byran == party
16:58:24  <benjamingoodger> party and another party == parties
16:58:37  <appe> ah, ok
16:58:38  <appe> thanks.
16:58:41  <benjamingoodger> well, the christian democrats' majority will probably be temporary too :P
16:58:46  <appe> you don't mind me asking, do you?
16:58:50  <appe> hehe
16:58:54  <benjamingoodger> no, not at all
16:59:46  <benjamingoodger> see, the thing with european democracy is that nobody can do very much in one direction or the other
17:00:09  <benjamingoodger> whereas, in the US, a president (one man!) can do tremendous amounts of things just by himself
17:00:40  <benjamingoodger> and in the UK, the elected party forms the entire government and dictates all law for the entire term
17:01:07  <SmatZ> benjamingoodger: so can in, say, Venezuela :-P
17:01:59  <benjamingoodger> ah, you've spotted my point :P
17:02:31  <benjamingoodger> basically, we choose between two sets of autocrats every five years
17:02:33  <SmatZ> good :)
17:03:21  * appe repairs watches
17:03:23  <appe>
17:03:30  <benjamingoodger> it's about as democratic as zimbabwe
17:03:39  <SmatZ> :)
17:04:24  <benjamingoodger> your server is very, very slow
17:04:43  <benjamingoodger> apparently you need a faster internet connection :P
17:05:44  <Prof_Frink> benjamingoodger:
17:06:08  *** Zealotus [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:06:14  <appe> benjamingoodger: it's not mine.
17:06:16  <benjamingoodger> ah
17:06:19  <benjamingoodger> very well
17:06:19  <appe> and the pictures are rather big, i guess.
17:06:25  <benjamingoodger> Prof_Frink: point being?
17:06:48  <Prof_Frink> Think what Kenobi's saying.
17:06:54  <Prof_Frink> clue's in the filename.
17:07:09  <benjamingoodger> ...yes
17:07:21  <benjamingoodger> why are you drawing my attention to it?
17:07:37  <Prof_Frink> 'cause.
17:07:39  *** Zealotus [] has joined #openttd
17:08:03  <benjamingoodger> righto
17:11:21  <benjamingoodger> ah, it's good to feel serotonin flooding into one's brain
17:12:41  *** Zealotus [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
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17:14:33  <Fantasya> "appe repairs watches" ;DD
17:14:36  <Fantasya> broken? :D
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17:41:16  <Eddi|zuHause> <benjamingoodger> basically, we choose between two sets of autocrats every five years <- that's what you get from a majority representation system instead of a proportional representation system ;)
17:41:36  <benjamingoodger> quite
17:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause> of course, both systems have their flaws
17:41:51  <benjamingoodger> yes
17:41:59  <benjamingoodger> PR doesn't achieve a great deal
17:42:09  <Eddi|zuHause> germany used a purely proportional system between 1919 and 1933
17:42:24  <benjamingoodger> MR achieves a great deal, but generally does it without the consent of the people the achievements affect
17:42:27  <Eddi|zuHause> which made them end up with a certain leader guy
17:42:31  <benjamingoodger> yes, I remember
17:42:55  <benjamingoodger> it worked well until the country hyperinflated
17:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> no, the hyperinflation was in the beginning, it worked better after the system stabilised, but then the american economy crash happend, and everything was down the drain
17:43:56  <Eddi|zuHause> because practically the whole economy was built by american credits
17:45:56  <benjamingoodger> indeed
17:49:28  <benjamingoodger> right, methinks my personal statement is as good as it will get... sending now
17:49:52  <benjamingoodger> oh, bugger
17:49:57  <benjamingoodger> all chat rooms look alike
17:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, after 1945, they installed kind of a hybrid system in (west) germany
17:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause> where one half of the seats of the "Bundestag" get distributed by majority vote, and the other half by proportional vote
17:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause> and a "5% proportional or 3 majority seats" rule for minimum requirements, to reduce number of (usually radical) tiny parties
17:52:40  <benjamingoodger> aha
17:52:52  <benjamingoodger> that seems to be what sweden lacks
17:53:08  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik there was one case where a party reached 3 majority seats without getting 5% of the proportional votes
17:53:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and suddenly everybody shrieked... "where did this loophole come from?"
17:53:38  <Eddi|zuHause> :P
17:54:05  *** mikl [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
17:54:59  <benjamingoodger> so does it work well?
17:55:49  <benjamingoodger> you seem to still have chancellor merkel, but otherwise germany continues as a truly momentous economy at least
17:58:27  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the system is not perfect either, but the funny situation after the last election was, that neither of the previously dominant sides had a majority, so they had to arrange themselves to work together
17:58:49  <benjamingoodger> ah
17:58:59  <benjamingoodger> well, that's the best we can hope for, I suppose
17:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> next election is in fall 2009, i think
17:59:11  <benjamingoodger> "autumn"
17:59:16  <benjamingoodger> it's pronounced "autumn"
17:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> that is an unspeakable word...
18:00:14  <benjamingoodger> why?
18:01:00  <Eddi|zuHause> because you cannot speak two conecutive consonants, unless they belong to two separate syllables
18:01:17  <Eddi|zuHause> +s
18:01:29  <benjamingoodger> ah
18:01:30  <benjamingoodger> yes
18:01:34  <benjamingoodger> we don't say the n
18:01:47  <Eddi|zuHause> then why write it?
18:02:25  <yorick>  because it's english
18:02:25  <benjamingoodger> why write the P or the H in psychology or the E in wake?
18:02:34  *** KritiK [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
18:02:36  <benjamingoodger> english _thrives_ on nonsensical spellings
18:03:19  <benjamingoodger> in german, "wake" would be spelt "wÀk"
18:03:20  <yorick> benjamingoodger: because the P and the H were originally pronounced
18:03:34  <benjamingoodger> no, they were not
18:04:00  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:04:15  <yorick> yes, because greek does not have a letter pronounced as "ps", or one pronounced as "ch"
18:04:25  <yorick> did*
18:04:57  <benjamingoodger> well, it has one pronounced as "sy"
18:05:06  <benjamingoodger> and one pronounced "ch"
18:05:15  <yorick> what's the "sy" one?
18:05:20  <benjamingoodger> psi
18:05:35  <yorick> psi is pronounced "ps"
18:05:49  <benjamingoodger> *blink*
18:06:12  <yorick> "In both Classical and Modern Greek, the letter indicates the combination /ps/ (like in English "lapse")."
18:06:20  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
18:06:28  * Swallow warns the world that yorick is right here
18:06:54  <benjamingoodger> well, it has one pronounced "ch" at least
18:07:00  <benjamingoodger> namely, chi
18:07:17  <yorick> agreed
18:07:38  <benjamingoodger> I estimate "ψυχολογος"
18:08:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: translators * r14615 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files):
18:08:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2008-11-23 18:07:42
18:08:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: dutch - 29 changed by MsG (29)
18:08:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: finnish - 60 fixed, 2 changed by jpx_ (3), UltimateSephiroth (59)
18:08:04  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: hungarian - 37 changed by oklmernok (37)
18:08:06  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: romanian - 13 fixed, 39 changed by stykat (52)
18:08:06  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 4 fixed by mad (4)
18:08:12  <Prof_Frink> It's all greek to me
18:08:27  * benjamingoodger deducts Prof_Frink one internet point for making a terrible joke
18:09:22  <benjamingoodger> <yorick> greek does not have a letter pronounced as "ps", or one pronounced as "ch"
18:09:28  <benjamingoodger> <yorick> psi is pronounced "ps"
18:09:37  <benjamingoodger> <benjamingoodger> well, it has one pronounced "ch" at least, namely, chi
18:09:48  <benjamingoodger> <yorick> agreed
18:09:49  <benjamingoodger> idiot
18:10:10  <yorick> oh look, sarcasm on the internet
18:13:20  <benjamingoodger> ...anyway
18:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause> "the P or the H in psychology" <- the p is actually spoken in german, and 'ch' is one sound, not two separate ones
18:14:57  <yorick> same in dutch ;)
18:14:57  <benjamingoodger> so you go "puh-sy-kologie"?
18:15:17  <yorick> no, psychologie"
18:15:19  <Eddi|zuHause> "ch" is not spoken like "k"
18:15:33  <benjamingoodger> ah, true
18:15:41  <benjamingoodger> I assumed it would become k when entering german
18:15:46  <Eddi|zuHause> "ch" is like a weak version of "sch"
18:15:59  <benjamingoodger> yes, yes, I did study german at school :P
18:16:10  <yorick> no, it became a ch spoken as k when entering english
18:16:21  <benjamingoodger> I was surrounded by morons going "ish bin..." all the time, it was maddening
18:16:37  <Eddi|zuHause> haha :p
18:16:57  <benjamingoodger> english has about two or three uses for the ch diphthong, you see
18:17:03  <benjamingoodger> it's quite difficult for us
18:17:32  <Prof_Frink> And hown many ways can "ough" be pronounced?
18:17:36  <SmatZ> you may use this for voice synthesis (only czech)
18:17:42  <yorick> dutch has a k-one at the beginning of a word, otherwise it's like german, but a bit stronger
18:17:45  <Eddi|zuHause> it's difficult for us to pronounce "Loch" the way the scottish do
18:17:48  <benjamingoodger> just the one, afaik
18:18:05  <benjamingoodger> by itself
18:18:10  <benjamingoodger> erm... two at least
18:18:18  *** mikl [] has joined #openttd
18:18:28  <Eddi|zuHause> and then there is "Yacht"
18:18:30  <benjamingoodger> three
18:18:39  <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: "yot" :P
18:19:10  <yorick> that's a loanword from dutch
18:19:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: in german, the "ch" is spoken differently based on context
18:19:51  <Eddi|zuHause> "ich" is spoken entirely different than "ach"
18:20:23  <Eddi|zuHause> (and both are not spoken like "k", unless you are in berlin)
18:20:25  <yorick> I know
18:20:32  <yorick> I know
18:20:55  <Eddi|zuHause> and then it's highly disputed how "China" is pronounced...
18:20:57  <yorick> "christ"
18:21:09  <benjamingoodger> 0.0
18:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> oh damn... i have to work on a presentation that i need to hold on tuesday, and i can absolutely not concentrate...
18:22:48  <benjamingoodger> probably because you're allowing yourself to be exposed to foreigners jabbering about pronunciation
18:23:15  <yorick> Eddi: idem
18:23:26  <yorick> but I need to hold it in french
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18:26:15  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: close Konversation
18:26:27  <SmatZ> and don't open it until you are finished with your work :-P
18:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid there's more to it...
18:33:59  <yorick> whoa, the snow is not melting anymore
18:34:29  <yorick> @seen Bjarni
18:34:29  <DorpsGek> yorick: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 1 day, 21 hours, 6 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
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19:14:40  <Patrick> that hurt :/
19:14:50  <Patrick> I used planes to cheat my way into big money for an impressive project
19:14:57  <Patrick> paid off my loan by blowing up the sea
19:14:59  <Patrick> 10 mil :(
19:15:39  <benjamingoodger> you used planes to cheat?
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19:15:48  <Patrick> well, it's so stupidly easy to make money
19:15:49  <benjamingoodger> and then paid off your bank loan by blowing up the sea?
19:15:52  <Patrick> nope
19:15:57  <Patrick> 3 planes brought me in 1.5 million a year.
19:16:01  <Patrick> I consider that too easy
19:16:16  <Patrick> so I use them as an unofficial "loan"
19:16:31  <benjamingoodger> oh, I see
19:16:37  <Patrick> it would be great if your maximum loan changed as a function of company value
19:16:49  <Patrick> like, I've made my first mil, but I want to fund a primary industry or something silly huge
19:16:54  <benjamingoodger> it does
19:17:01  <Patrick> only up to 500l
19:17:04  <Patrick> *500k
19:17:07  <benjamingoodger> ah
19:17:08  <Patrick> which is little fish
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19:28:08  <Eddi|zuHause> max loan does not change with company value
19:28:16  <Eddi|zuHause> max loan only changes with inflation
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19:34:49  <benjamingoodger> ah
19:34:54  <benjamingoodger> bugger :(
19:47:40  <petern> realistic economy? heh
19:47:54  <appe> how does one change the home catalogue for a user in debian?
19:48:24  <benjamingoodger> home catalogue?
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19:50:45  <Sacro> I went to a German Restaurant the other day. Not a pleasant experience.
19:50:45  <Sacro> The starter was saurkraut, and it was bloody awful.
19:50:45  <Sacro> But the wurst was yet to come.
19:51:02  <Prof_Frink> *spang*
19:52:47  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: true
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20:20:25  <mortal> appe, it's in /etc/passwd iirc
20:20:48  <mortal> second to last field
20:21:04  <mortal> though I'd probably rather add a new user with a specific homedir
20:21:12  <mortal> or symlink the preferred location to your current homedir
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20:23:47  <mrfrenzy> vipw
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20:35:08  <Swallow> Yorick, are you alive?
20:35:18  <yorick> yes
20:35:28  <yorick> AFAIK
20:35:30  <yorick> why?
20:35:41  <Swallow> I have a comment regarding your feeder share patch
20:36:03  <Swallow> consider the following situation: A runs a train company, and B a local bus company...
20:36:10  <yorick> mhm
20:36:16  <Swallow> A delivers pax to the central station...
20:36:35  <yorick> mhm
20:36:37  <Swallow> the passengers rot there for a month, and then B brings them to the final station
20:36:42  <yorick> mhm
20:37:12  <Swallow> Final payment will now be lower than the transfer credits for A
20:37:27  <Swallow> So B will receive a negative payment :)
20:37:36  <yorick> yes
20:38:06  <Swallow> I doubt that players will like that
20:38:20  <mrfrenzy> that seems pretty realistic to mee
20:38:26  <yorick> B also would if he'd get the feeder share
20:38:31  <mrfrenzy> if passengers have to wait for a month they would demand compensation
20:38:47  <yorick> negative income animation is shown, but feeder shares are paid
20:38:50  <yorick> ;)
20:39:21  <yorick> anyway, have to go
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20:40:28  <Swallow> mrfrenzy, please talk to belugas about realism
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20:59:16  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
21:02:09  *** benjamin_ [] has joined #openttd
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21:07:20  <Wolf01> 'night
21:07:24  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
21:10:22  <appe> oh god
21:10:28  <appe> this en-route thingy is amazing
21:10:36  <appe> i havent used it before
21:10:37  <George> DaleStan: I try to define sound
21:10:38  <George> -1 * 0	 11 01 00
21:10:40  <George> -1 **	 sound/power.wav
21:10:41  <George> but get the following error
21:10:43  <George> GRFCodec version 0.9.10 - Copyright (C) 2000-2005 by Josef Drexler
21:10:44  <George> Warning: Compression is enabled by default, disable with -u
21:10:45  <appe> (transfer+empty)
21:10:46  <George> Encoding in temporary file
21:10:48  <George> Error: Encountered invalid character looking for literal byte.
21:10:49  <George>         While reading sprite:2566
21:10:51  <George> What am I doing wrong?
21:13:21  <Vikthor> appe: And that's still nothing compared to cargo destinations ;)
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21:22:55  <appe> Vikthor: cargo destinations?
21:22:58  <appe> :)
21:26:05  <appe> this is so fun now when i can use the complexity of it
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21:47:00  <CIA-5> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14616 /trunk/src/order_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2424]: a nearest depot order should be "equal" to the resolved nearest depot order; otherwise we keep resolving the nearest depot order every tick.
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22:04:39  *** Yexo [] has joined #openttd
22:05:13  <Yexo> hello
22:05:27  <SmatZ> hello Yexo
22:05:33  <Yexo> hi SmatZ
22:05:50  <benjamingoodger> hello SmatZ
22:05:54  <benjamingoodger> hello yexo
22:06:42  <nicfer> one question, I've been playing multiplayer openttd servers with the score goal mod but I can't rise my company value
22:07:06  <nicfer> how can rise it?
22:07:13  <nicfer> can I*
22:07:23  <benjamingoodger> making profit is a good way to start
22:08:11  <nicfer> I tried to make profit by too many ways but it doesn't go higher than 1
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22:08:37  <benjamingoodger> you need to make enough to pay off your loan first
22:09:10  <nicfer> someones managed to make profit even with loans
22:09:28  <appe>,%2010th%20Apr%202175%20frenz.sav
22:09:30  <appe> here you go
22:09:36  <appe> please help me find the "train is lost" errors.
22:09:41  <appe> and feel free to give tip
22:09:43  <benjamingoodger> you can make profit with a loan
22:10:06  <benjamingoodger> but you need to have more money than your loan before the company value will rise above 1
22:10:24  <appe> solidity.
22:10:32  * appe own company holds 100% at the moment.
22:10:35  <benjamingoodger> my stomach hurts :(
22:10:39  <appe> wich is not so weird, maby.
22:19:14  <petern> which, maybe?
22:20:37  <benjamingoodger> methinks his own comment
22:26:25  <appe> petern: ah, thank you.
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22:36:17  <appe> uhm
22:36:21  <appe> im having trouble here.
22:36:57  <appe> i have alot of trains that empty iron ore at station 1, and a big ass train that collects it all and sends it to a steel mill
22:37:12  <appe> it fills up, and leaves everything on the station at the steel mill
22:37:15  <appe> but it costs
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22:37:28  <benjamingoodger> set the lot of trains to transfer and leave empty
22:37:37  <appe> they do
22:37:41  <benjamingoodger> set the big-ass train to unload, not to transfer
22:37:44  <appe> aha
22:37:44  <appe> ok
22:37:51  <benjamingoodger> otherwise the cargo just sits there
22:38:03  <appe> uhm
22:38:16  <appe> tranfer and leave empty on the steel mills station?
22:38:30  <appe> +s
22:38:30  <glx> for the transfer station
22:38:53  <appe> but not leave empty?
22:38:55  <appe> :3
22:39:00  <appe> that cant be correct?
22:39:12  <benjamingoodger> the little trains full load at the mines
22:39:21  <benjamingoodger> transfer and leave empty at the big station
22:39:31  <benjamingoodger> the big train full loads at the big station
22:39:35  <benjamingoodger> unloads at the mill
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22:40:29  <glx> use a simple "goto" at the mill (it will unload if accepted)
22:41:03  <appe> still costs.
22:41:20  <appe> let me give you a save.
22:41:31  <benjamingoodger> I'm on an old version, sorry :(
22:41:43  <appe>,%206th%20Jul%202178%20problem.sav
22:41:44  <appe> oh, ok.
22:41:48  <appe> there it is.
22:41:49  <AgentLeMan> hello everybody
22:41:58  <appe> the issue is train 82.
22:42:03  <appe> and excuse the mess..
22:42:03  <appe> :D
22:42:16  <benjamingoodger> hello m. le Man
22:43:07  <AgentLeMan> hello benjamin, the good german ;o)
22:44:01  <AgentLeMan> uhm.. on asidenote let me start again
22:44:07  <AgentLeMan> hello benjamin :o)
22:44:32  <appe> ah
22:44:34  <appe> works now.
22:44:51  <benjamingoodger> I haven't been to sleep since we first had this conversation
22:44:56  <appe> :O
22:45:01  <appe> get some, damnit.
22:45:04  <benjamingoodger> I have been up for nearly 33 hours
22:45:58  <appe> but seriosly
22:45:59  <AgentLeMan> hm, wasnt there a key, with which we can focus the mainwindow on a vehicle? so the vehicle moves the mainwindow, so to speak?
22:46:06  <benjamingoodger> bloody hell --- 4.4% unemployment predicted for scotland
22:46:07  <appe> i want to leave it for the steel mill to be processed
22:46:23  <appe> now, it just tranfer the iron ore TO the steel mill station, and not to the steel mill.
22:46:43  <appe> if i simply use "unload" instead of "transfer and leave empty" it costs me instead
22:46:46  <appe> i cant see the problem
22:46:53  <Yexo> AgentLeMan: hold control while you click on the "eye"-icon in the vehicle window
22:46:57  <benjamingoodger> if you use unload it's actually doing it correctly
22:47:10  <appe> but im not receiving any money for it, it costs me.
22:47:10  <benjamingoodger> the way it's represented is a bit weird
22:47:10  <appe> :<
22:47:14  <AgentLeMan> what was the beginning, your first question, appe?
22:47:24  <AgentLeMan> Yexo thank you :o)
22:47:29  <benjamingoodger> but over the course of the whole thing, it's making profit
22:48:16  <appe> AgentLeMan: i have a bunch of trains sending iron ore to transfer station "1". a big ass train then collects it and sends it to station "2", wich is the steel mill. i want it to leave it for production on the mill.
22:49:02  <appe> the train has this route: Station 1: Transfer and take cargo (the iron ore) -> Station 2: Transfer and leave empty (to the steel mill).
22:49:29  <appe> if using "Transfer and leave empty" for Station 2, it leaves the cargo on the station, and it just sits there. the steel mill doesnt process it.
22:49:29  <AgentLeMan> appe, you was here already i guess :
22:49:38  <AgentLeMan> -was  +were
22:50:08  <appe> if using "Unload" it unloads all the goods, but doesnt bring any income what so ever, it costs me money.
22:50:11  <appe> and i dont understand it.
22:50:55  <appe> although, if i unload it the steel mill processes it, and then the steel may be re-sent
22:51:22  <appe> what i dont understand is why the big ass iron ore train doesnt get payed.
22:51:24  <appe> payd
22:51:26  <appe> payed?
22:51:30  <benjamingoodger> paid
22:51:33  <benjamingoodger> :P
22:51:45  <benjamingoodger> you have made profit somewhere along the way, it's just inadequately represented
22:52:33  <AgentLeMan> °follws train #85 while rolling a cigarette°
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22:53:14  <benjamingoodger> filth!
22:54:10  <appe> aha
22:54:29  <appe> benjamingoodger: so, it has been paid, so to speak?
22:54:42  <benjamingoodger> _you_ have been paid
22:54:52  <benjamingoodger> the train will not show a loss, either
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22:54:58  <AgentLeMan> appe, its station #85-> station #59 -> station #82, right?
22:55:00  <benjamingoodger> beyond that, it's all completely random
22:55:20  <appe> AgentLeMan: yes.
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22:55:25  <appe> or wait
22:55:25  <appe> no
22:55:37  <AgentLeMan> well, i think, it is ;o)
22:55:37  <appe> benjamingoodger: the train shows a massive loss.
22:55:48  <benjamingoodger> hmm
22:55:57  <benjamingoodger> well, it will be prevented from complaining about it, at least
22:56:00  <appe> AgentLeMan: what? train 82 only use two stations.
22:56:05  <appe> ok
22:56:06  <appe> :D
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22:57:46  <AgentLeMan> station #85 <L-train #85-U> station #59 <L-train #82-U> station #82 °winks°
22:58:29  <appe> o_0
22:59:42  <benjamingoodger> good night
23:00:23  <AgentLeMan> its basically the annotation for the used stations, trains and orders for the topic-relevant objects.
23:00:40  <AgentLeMan> good night, benjamin
23:00:53  <AgentLeMan> and, appe, theres a huge drawback
23:00:56  <AgentLeMan> "To enable feeder services, go to Configure Patches, go to Stations and make sure "Deliver cargo to a station only when there is a demand" is set to OFF."
23:01:15  <AgentLeMan> IF that still is valid.
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23:06:51  <AgentLeMan> "hold control while you click on the "eye"-icon in the vehicle window" / that is supposed to work only in the closest zoom-mode, right? ( at least it works like that in the latest nightly )
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23:12:33  <appe> i solved it
23:12:41  <appe> i didnt have enough iron ore
23:12:42  <nicfer> is posted in the forums the score mod in mp?
23:12:45  <appe> to the transfer station
23:13:01  <appe> as the amount of iron ore increased, the trains losses decreased.
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23:14:29  <AgentLeMan> hmmm
23:16:35  *** DephNet[Paul] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:18:40  <AgentLeMan> and yes, its a big mess! ;o)
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23:24:03  <AgentLeMan> appe ?
23:25:01  <appe> :D
23:25:05  <appe> i still dont get it
23:25:11  <appe> the train does go minus.
23:25:16  <appe> let me give you a new save.
23:25:22  <AgentLeMan> train #82 you mean?
23:25:29  <Aali> appe: what are you trying to do?
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23:25:44  <appe>,%2027th%20Mar%202183%20problem1.sav
23:25:47  <AgentLeMan> Aali, one way feederservice
23:25:53  <appe> Aali: im trying to get a transfer train to go +.
23:26:10  <appe> all the little trains driving iron ore to the transfer station has a + income
23:26:23  <appe> and the train that collects the steel from the steel mill to the factory
23:26:44  <appe> but not the train that collects iron ore from the transfer station, and brings it for process at the steel mill.
23:27:09  <appe> on the latest save (see url) it's train #82 and #91
23:27:17  <AgentLeMan> appe, as i see it train #82 makes a negative profit, because it has to transfer all that stuff from sooo many stations, so often, it only transfers stuff from only a few, so the other cargo lays there for ages around.
23:27:41  <appe> the iron ore on the big station lies to long?
23:27:48  <appe> ah, ok
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23:28:17  <Aali> appe: get rid of the unload order
23:28:26  <appe> ok
23:28:27  <Aali> just use a regular goto order
23:28:42  <AgentLeMan> and... if there lays cargo from 20 stations, 82 will only load cargo from 5 or so, so it can be, that cargo from some stations never gets to the targetstation
23:29:14  <appe> oh, ok
23:29:42  <appe> if i add another train (hence emptying the tranfer station more often) i can get better results?
23:30:00  <AgentLeMan> oooh appe!
23:30:22  * appe add four clones
23:30:44  <Aali> ah
23:30:49  <AgentLeMan> hm, no, sorry, i thought, train #56 ALSO transports ore
23:30:51  <Aali> this is just how feeder shares work
23:30:58  <Aali> you are making money
23:31:04  <appe> ok
23:31:18  <appe> shit, i have to clone alot of trains
23:31:25  <Aali> but the transfer trains get too much money
23:31:43  <Aali> so the large trains "lose" money to make up for it
23:31:46  <appe> ah, ok
23:31:50  <appe> aha
23:31:52  <appe> aaah!
23:32:02  <appe> a switch in my head went on
23:32:07  <appe> the logic falls into place.
23:32:10  <appe> thanks.
23:32:48  <Nite_Owl> Feeder lines = short  final destination lines = long(er)
23:33:07  <appe> yes
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23:34:48  <AgentLeMan> but isnt it also written, that only the last train makes the profit?
23:35:49  <Aali> you don't get anything unless you actually deliver the cargo
23:35:57  * appe funds new iron ore mines
23:36:01  <Aali> but you still get transfer money
23:36:04  <AgentLeMan> appe, you could make it a bit faster, if you use a two-way-tunnel for train #82, so it doesnt get botherd by the graintrains
23:36:12  <Aali> (not real money)
23:36:32  <AgentLeMan> Aali, but thanks also, i was all the time confused about the negative income, makes totally sense now
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23:37:53  <Aali> its quite confusing indeed, but as you can't know what the final profit will be, its hard to "fix"
23:38:27  <Aali> appe: you could make it a bit faster by getting rid of all those awfully narrow corners :P
23:39:44  <Aali> 2x45 curves are awful and 90 degree curves shouldn't even be allowed :P
23:41:18  <AgentLeMan> im saying
23:41:26  <Eddi|zuHause> only use 360° turns, they are the most superior ;)
23:42:39  <AgentLeMan> LOL
23:42:58  <Eddi|zuHause> shh... not so loud in the middle of the night
23:44:26  <appe> :D
23:44:38  <AgentLeMan> °slams hammer on letters°
23:44:42  <AgentLeMan> lol
23:44:52  <appe> hehe
23:44:59  <appe> im way to lazy to fix it now
23:45:06  <AgentLeMan> appe: the #82 train is very important
23:45:27  <appe> train 82?
23:45:35  <appe> thats a normal iron ore shipper.
23:46:22  <AgentLeMan> i changed it, so it now has 1 rail, an additional stationpart for itself, which leads into a long tunnel towards its goal, there are oinly 2 curves, which are like 30°
23:46:35  <appe> oh, ok.
23:47:07  <Aali> 30 degree curves? what game are you playing? :D
23:47:20  <AgentLeMan> that way, it wont be bothered by #56 and #81
23:47:28  <appe>,%2016th%20Aug%202186.sav
23:47:42  <AgentLeMan> Aali, okok, its more like 45°
23:47:50  <AgentLeMan> sorry.
23:48:01  <Aali> :)
23:48:20  <AgentLeMan> but also appe, with that tunnel, you can basically make #82 infinitely long
23:48:32  <Aali> anyway, what matters is how far apart those 45 degree curves are
23:48:34  <appe> i dont get it
23:48:39  <appe> 82 doesnt have to be long
23:48:43  <appe> and it doesnt have to be perfect
23:49:00  <appe> since its a two truck iron ore transfer train
23:49:29  <AgentLeMan> but it looks nicer :oD and is less messy
23:50:00  <appe> :)
23:50:51  <AgentLeMan> although, that saved game has only a minimal maximum (?) amount of prettyness to achieve, its just a bit much all in all
23:51:28  <appe> yeah
23:51:32  <appe> i wish i did a bigger map.
23:51:32  <appe> :>
23:51:44  <AgentLeMan> and i officially vow, i wont ever switch to those fast trains . im getting dizzy by the fluttering :o(
23:52:19  <appe> thats the thing i like
23:52:25  <appe> i want it to look like a processor running.
23:52:25  <appe> :D
23:52:39  <Aali> your processor must be very slow :/
23:52:41  <appe> time to get some sleep
23:52:42  <appe> hehe
23:52:44  <appe> kisses!
23:52:59  <AgentLeMan> bye appew
23:53:01  <AgentLeMan> -w
23:53:45  <AgentLeMan> Aali °grins° aye, im feeling kinda the urge to take some 12 hours and rework the whole thing
23:54:50  <Aali> nah, flatworld and no grfs, i can't play like that anymore
23:55:04  <Aali> its too ugly
23:55:04  <AgentLeMan>
23:55:29  <AgentLeMan> well... waht about this :
23:55:56  <AgentLeMan> destory stationn #59, make a huge volcano, then try to make profit
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23:56:21  <Aali> still waaaaay too easy to make gazillions of cash
23:56:48  <AgentLeMan> okay, next option
23:56:57  <AgentLeMan> do it with... planes only!
23:57:02  <Brianetta> My server settings make experienced players go bankrupt
23:58:12  <AgentLeMan> Brianetta, experienced players? or just... uber-rich players?
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23:58:24  <Aali> AgentLeMan: assuming there's pax to move (i didn't check) that would just make things easier
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23:58:43  <SmatZ> rich players don't bankrupt
23:58:48  <AgentLeMan> Aali, what is pax?
23:59:15  <Aali> passengers
23:59:24  <AgentLeMan> oh, no, theres not even 1 city
23:59:36  <AgentLeMan> uhm, wrong, there is 1
23:59:44  <AgentLeMan> 203 people
23:59:46  <glx> 1 is required
23:59:58  <AgentLeMan> 29 max pax

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