Log for #openttd on 26th November 2008:
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00:06:05  <benjamingoodger> ...ho hum
00:09:30  <benjamingoodger> I have killed the entire room
00:09:34  <benjamingoodger> huzzahs are in order
00:12:37  <Eddi|zuHause> muahahaha.... "5th season of LOST: charlie did not actually die. hurly stashed him for food supply." :p
00:14:01  <benjamingoodger> hehe
00:14:09  <benjamingoodger> must remember to watch the first four at some point
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00:17:18  <Eddi|zuHause> then you have absolutely no clue what i am talking about...
00:18:56  <benjamingoodger> I recall seeing some of it...
00:19:15  <benjamingoodger> was it charlie that got smashed accidentally against the rocks, then?
00:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> lost is something you have to see all of it... else it can't possibly make any sense
00:20:47  <benjamingoodger> from what I hear, it makes no sense either way
00:21:14  <Eddi|zuHause> that is no contradiction to my statement :p
00:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, nobody has actually seen all of it yet
00:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> there are 2 seasons left
00:21:58  <Rubidium> are you sure?
00:22:13  <Eddi|zuHause> pretty sure ;)
00:22:18  <Rubidium> that'll probably be two half seasons due to strikes
00:23:20  <Eddi|zuHause> ok, i give you that... the next strike is already on the brink
00:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> but i believe the next season is already mostly done filming
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00:24:12  * benjamingoodger cannot wait for nip/tuck season 5b
00:24:15  <Eddi|zuHause> and an actors' strike won't affect episodes that are already in post production
00:24:27  <benjamingoodger> what a bloody cliffhanger they put on the end of 5a...
00:24:33  <Eddi|zuHause> and post production is a long queue
00:24:34  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: are the voice overs or so?
00:24:47  <appe> i cant sleep
00:24:49  <Rubidium> and what is post production's going on strike ;)
00:24:50  <appe> can someone tuck me in?
00:24:56  * benjamingoodger tucks in appe
00:25:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: afaik the actors are the only ones not yet having agreed to the new deal
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01:03:47  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14634 /trunk/src/ (debug.h os_timer.cpp yapf/yapf.hpp): -Change: _rdtsc is defined by some platforms so we can't use that name.
01:08:01  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14635 /trunk/src/ (fileio.cpp stdafx.h): -Change: use S_ISDIR/S_ISREG as x & S_IFREG always results false on platforms when S_IFREG is 0x0000.
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04:01:06  <aronzak> hi
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04:07:08  <aronzak> anyone know how long it might be until 32bpp is ready?
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04:20:38  <glx> what do you mean?
04:28:29  <aronzak> well, if all of the 32bpp textures replace the old ones, then the project will be completetely redistributable
04:36:37  <glx> will still need sound replacements
04:37:42  <glx> btw there are also 8bpp replacements
04:37:56  <glx> and 32bpp is (and will stay) optional
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07:40:53  <Celestar> \o
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07:53:34  * Celestar hates input/output errors on the home directory
07:53:36  <Celestar> :S
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09:04:43  * Celestar wonders whether he can put quotas on his samba profiles
09:05:44  <Celestar> root@andromeda:[/nfs/home/sangl/.msprofile]# du -sh
09:05:44  <Celestar> 1.4G    .
09:05:48  <Celestar> \o/
09:06:28  <Celestar> every time this user logs on, Windows considers it necessary to copy the whole profile over the damn network
09:08:00  <Rubidium> yes... it's much faster to have it locally, especially with the amount of queries that Windows can come up with
09:08:13  <Celestar> Rubidium: but those are roaming profiles
09:08:38  <Celestar> and why are people NOT using IMAP :S
09:09:19  <Rubidium> (apart from the different for and the different version number and the different game state)
09:13:32  <blathijs> Rubidium: One runs in dosbox and the other doesn't? :-D
09:13:44  <petern> the different for?
09:13:56  <petern> openttd for dos :o
09:14:29  <Rubidium> yup... and: DOS support Persian and OSX doesn't ;)
09:14:35  <petern> hah
09:14:39  <petern> why is that?
09:14:52  * Celestar is happy that KDE tries to open pngs in gxine :S
09:15:03  <Rubidium> because Bjarni needs to get his head around icu on OSX
09:15:16  <petern> @seen bjarni
09:15:16  <DorpsGek> petern: bjarni was last seen in #openttd 2 weeks, 4 days, 11 hours, 47 minutes, and 14 seconds ago: <Bjarni> <ln-> well, good to see you back amongst the healthy, in any case. <-- sort off.... I'm totally tired and I missed everything at uni this week
09:15:19  <petern> oh
09:15:22  <Rubidium> and make some libraries for the CF
09:18:12  * Rubidium still wonders whether fontconfig would be useful for DOS
09:19:03  * Celestar wonders why lsof never ends :P
09:19:21  <petern> lots of files open, or stuck on one?
09:19:47  <petern> hmm, something is using a lot of memory
09:19:51  <petern> switching tasks is taking ages
09:19:54  <Rubidium> <- why is DOS more like Unix than it is like Windows?
09:19:59  <petern> and i have 2GB :o
09:20:37  <Celestar> Rubidium: because DOS was derived from unix?
09:21:34  <petern> in which world?
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09:22:15  <petern> hmm, quitting firefox freed nothing :o
09:22:25  <petern> well, 130MB
09:22:39  <Rubidium> our one? As the dos port uses unix.cpp ;)
09:23:12  <petern> a svchost.exe at 79MB... :o
09:23:28  <petern> audioendpointbuilder :o
09:25:04  <Celestar> don't you love that OS?
09:25:09  <petern> not really
09:25:12  <petern> although
09:25:22  <petern> it runs way better on my q6600 than this pos amd x2
09:25:38  <Celestar> is that a Vista?
09:26:37  <Celestar> meh.
09:26:48  <Celestar> I can't use wget to download a closed mediawiki :(
09:27:04  <petern> yeah
09:27:08  <petern> vista business
09:27:26  <petern> hmm, openoffice is apparently using 14MB
09:27:29  <petern> which is unlikely
09:27:38  <Celestar> who incompetent idiot creates an OS that doesn't run properly on a 64-bit Dual Core CPU?
09:27:46  <Celestar> s/who/what/
09:27:59  <petern> ...
09:28:17  <Celestar> or right. Microsoft, I forgot :P
09:28:37  <Rubidium> Celestar: the same company that made Allegro add a i_love_bill global variable?
09:29:09  <Celestar> er what?!
09:29:49  <petern> right, 1.49GB used
09:30:02  <petern> with, er, putty, explorer, taskmanager, and sumatra pdf open...
09:30:34  <Rubidium> Celestar:
09:31:10  <Celestar> petern: ok with acroread that would be 2.49 GB possibly
09:31:27  <Celestar> Rubidium: lol
09:31:46  <petern> yes, well, acroread can fuck off :)
09:32:15  <Celestar> # free -m total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
09:32:15  <Celestar> Mem:          2026       1715        310          0          0        798
09:32:15  <Celestar> -/+ buffers/cache:        917       1108
09:32:22  <Celestar> 917 MB used
09:33:00  * petern uninstalls openttd
09:33:11  <petern> (0.6.3-rc1 is not that useful)
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09:38:03  <orudge> [09:19:54] <Rubidium> <- why is DOS more like Unix than it is like Windows? <-- s/DOS/DJGPP/. If you were to use the Microsoft C compiler, you'd probably find it has a fair bit more in common with Windows ;)
09:38:43  <petern> aww, excluding high resolutions? :o
09:38:47  <orudge> technically, the OS/2 port can mostly use unix.cpp, too
09:39:18  * orudge could use high resolutions with Allegro and DJGPP, back in the day
09:39:31  <orudge> got my S3 ViRGE up to something like 1600x1200, at least. My 15" monitor never liked it, of course.
09:39:31  <petern> "Force DOS builds to ALWAYS use full screen" < desqview or similar?
09:39:33  <Rubidium> petern: Allegro's backends can't handle more than 1024x768
09:39:36  <orudge> Rubidium: sure it can
09:39:37  <petern> or was that textmode? hmm
09:40:21  <petern> does allegro use a vesa interface?
09:40:30  <orudge> It can do
09:40:35  <petern> hmm
09:40:36  <Rubidium> resolutions > 1024x768 did reliably crash on my system
09:40:36  <orudge> the DOS version tries various methods
09:40:44  <orudge> Rubidium: you ideally need a suitably old video card
09:40:58  <orudge> modern graphics cards have bad DOS support
09:41:00  <Rubidium> and so did windows mode :(
09:41:10  <Rubidium> s/windows/windowed/
09:41:14  <orudge>*/DOS
09:42:32  <petern> aww, i remember scitech display doctor...
09:42:45  <petern> i hope that wasn't their only product
09:43:24  <orudge> Scitech Display Doctor is still somewhat available for OS/2
09:43:52  <petern> hmm, allegro has no GUS support? :o
09:44:55  <orudge> <-- a bit messy, I don't remember now why network includes were shuffled around, but presumably there was a reason for it ;)
09:44:59  <orudge> eek, 9.44am
09:45:00  <orudge> time for me to go
09:45:11  <Rubidium> petern: it plays TTD midis (if set up properly)
09:49:31  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Any idea what happened to TTD's original MIDI playing code, in terms of OpenTTD?
09:50:17  <Brianetta> I only ask because I have an actual MIDI device (:
09:50:34  <petern> nothing
09:51:01  <petern> ttd for windows would've used windows' midi gumpf
09:51:14  <petern> i assume, heh
09:51:20  <Brianetta> TTD for DOS wouldn't, though
09:51:29  <Brianetta> It'd just send the MIDI commands to the relevant IO port
09:51:38  <Brianetta> and touch the IRQ to have it dealt with
09:51:51  <Celestar> 300
09:51:51  <petern> correct but openttd is not based on ttd for dos
09:51:53  <Celestar> 300h
09:51:55  <Brianetta> Shame
09:52:00  <Brianetta> I have a /dev/midi
09:52:34  <petern> that interface is probably not the same as the hardware IO port interface, anyway...
09:52:41  <Brianetta> I have to say, though, that when I use pmidi to play the .gm files from TTD, they can sound a bit... added cowbell.
09:53:05  <petern> well they're meant for fm synths, i guess
09:53:22  <Brianetta> Yeah... not a really nice Roland digital piano )-:
09:53:37  <Brianetta> Although when they're good, they're good
09:54:37  * Brianetta has had Greensleeves stuck in his brain today
09:54:45  <Brianetta> Serves me right for practising piano first thing
09:55:33  <petern> heh
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09:57:45  <Brianetta> Le Vikthor is le back
10:02:57  <orudge> OpenTTD for DOS can, of course, use proper MIDI devices
10:03:18  <orudge> as the Allegro MIDI drivers can use FM synth, General MIDI, and a few other things
10:04:37  <Vikthor> Bonjour, Le Brianetta :P
10:05:40  <Rubidium> isn't there a rule that anything ending with an 'a' is female in French?
10:05:47  <Brianetta> OpenTTD for Linux appears to be able on only to use external programs.
10:06:09  <Brianetta> Rubidium: Who knows?
10:06:12  <Brianetta> Or cares?
10:06:33  <Vikthor> Rubidium: Dont't know but Brianetta is not female anyway AFAIK
10:06:42  <Rubidium> Brianetta/glx should know
10:06:57  * Brianetta will ask him
10:07:07  <Brianetta> I'm not normally female.
10:07:26  <Brianetta> I was once made an honorary member of that gender, though
10:07:35  <orudge> [10:05:47] <Brianetta> OpenTTD for Linux appears to be able on only to use external programs. <-- well, with an Allegro driver, OpenTTD for Linux would not require external programs
10:09:24  <Rubidium> <- without network though
10:09:57  <orudge> so you got the graphics driver working then?
10:10:01  * orudge may try that later when he is home
10:15:35  <Rubidium> that I had working yesterday ;)
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10:32:51  <gynter> hello
10:34:37  <petern> i wonder if MB would use the DOS version... hehe
10:35:06  * petern attempts to get VS 2003 to work under vista
10:35:32  <Celestar> petern: why do you do this to yourself?
10:37:38  <AgentLeMan> no one else can.
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10:55:07  <petern> Celestar, for my job
10:55:09  <petern> hmm
10:55:20  <petern> i thought nvidia 7 series was not dx10?
10:56:27  <orudge> tisn't
10:57:21  <orudge> the 8 series might be, but I don't quite remember
10:57:28  <petern> well
10:57:37  <petern> it says dx10 in nvidia info
10:57:54  <petern> dx version 10, geforce 7900 gt/gto
10:58:12  <orudge> hmm
10:58:17  <orudge> maybe that just means that DirectX 10 is installed
10:58:19  <petern> not actually tried anything that requires dx10 though
10:58:21  <orudge> not that it's DX10-capable
10:58:28  <petern> possibly, but that's pretty silly
10:58:30  <orudge> my 7800GT wasn't DirectX10-capable
10:58:52  <petern> it's certainly a g71
10:59:01  <petern> hm
10:59:17  <petern> anyway
10:59:21  <petern> it does not matter, as it's a business pc :p
10:59:36  <orudge> my GTX260 is DirectX 10 capable, but I haven't yet actually rebooted into Vista since installing it
10:59:54  <orudge> nor do I have any games installed there anyway
11:00:05  <petern> heh
11:00:11  <petern> i didn't try bioshock in dx9
11:02:22  <orudge> well
11:02:28  <orudge> it seems to work fine for me on XP :p
11:02:31  <appe> i have injured my left biceps
11:02:32  <appe> :/
11:02:37  <appe> pretty bad, too
11:03:48  * petern tries out evolution for windows
11:10:06  <Eddi|zuHause> that's from all the masturbating, appe.
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11:39:43  <petern> heh
11:39:58  <petern> my pc is connected at 1 gbit/s to my phone, and then from there is 100 mbit/s :o
11:51:56  * petern installs XP in a virtual machine
11:51:57  <Celestar> :P
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12:13:08  <blathijs> petern: Wait, your phone has a 100mbit/s internet connection and a 1gbit/s USB plug, or what?
12:15:04  <petern> er
12:15:07  <petern> usb?
12:15:18  <petern> it has two 1gibt/s ports
12:15:20  <petern> the switch is 100mbit/s...
12:15:54  <blathijs> Your phone has ethernet ports?
12:15:58  <blathijs> two of them? Cool :-)
12:21:17  <petern> yeah
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12:53:08  <petern> cisco 7971g i think it is
12:53:38  <Gekz> I hate at my cisco router now :/
12:53:43  <Gekz> it takes too long to connect to DSL
12:54:26  <petern> well don't disconnect it ;)
12:54:52  <Gekz> I dont disconnect it
12:54:57  <Gekz> the crappy line does it for me
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14:11:39  * Celestar just booked his first ever TGV ticket :P
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14:13:29  <Celestar> 155 EUR
14:13:44  <Celestar> Munich-Paris round trip with frankfurt stopover
14:18:59  <Belugas> don't forget to pick up sausages!
14:19:31  <Celestar> ??
14:21:06  <Rubidium> Celestar: Frankfurter: a sausage as made in Frankfurt; a hot dog
14:21:23  <Celestar> don't like em
14:21:29  <Celestar> bah
14:21:57  <Celestar> none of these crappy modern trains seem to have compartments
14:23:04  <Celestar> I want my comparments back :((
14:23:40  <appe> ich bin ein berliner
14:23:52  <appe> ich bin ein frankfurter, ich bin ein hamburger
14:24:05  <appe> as mr izzard said.
14:29:42  <Eddi|zuHause> "In Halle gibt es Halloren, Hallenser und Halunken"
14:33:56  <Celestar> maybe I should do a personal review of TGV vs ICE3
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14:57:40  <Swallow> Can 'normal' vehicles possibly have a non-company owner?
14:59:21  <Eddi|zuHause> why shouldn't they be able to?
15:00:51  <Swallow> Normally towns don't own vehicles by themselves..
15:01:27  <Eddi|zuHause> that was not the question
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15:24:30  <Celestar> meh
15:25:07  <Celestar> why are most PSU for computers rated at 500W+ :S
15:25:13  <Celestar> I don't want to build those kind of computers
15:26:01  <glx> you are not forced to consume 500W
15:26:27  <Aali> surely you can still find 350-400W ones?
15:26:48  <Belugas> junkyard :)
15:26:52  <Celestar> Aali: for a box that will idle at around 60W and peak at around 90-100W ...
15:26:56  <dihedral> Celestar: that does not mean it will eat that much power - you do know that right?
15:27:02  <Aali> Celestar: so?
15:27:11  <Celestar> glx: no, but below about 20% load, the efficiency drops significantly
15:27:51  <Celestar> is if you have a 500W PSU and your comp pulls 60W, it is likely that you pull around 100-120W from the outlet
15:28:01  <Aali> apaarently, i can still get 270W ones
15:28:02  <Celestar> with a 200W you get that down to around 70W
15:28:17  <Celestar> Aali: yeah you can. but you need to look for them :P
15:28:30  <mrfrenzy> Celestar: that only applies to cheap psus
15:28:33  <petern> well, i got a 500W PSU
15:28:42  <Aali> actually, no, its available where i usually buy all my computer parts
15:28:46  <petern> because i didn't fancy running a core 2 quad and an 8800GT on much less
15:28:51  <Aali> so i dont need to look for them :P
15:28:51  <mrfrenzy> a good brand psu will only use a few watts at idle regardless if it's max rating is 50W or 500W
15:29:00  <Celestar> he picoPSU is fun
15:30:15  <Celestar> maybe I should just go for a notebook :P
15:31:48  <Celestar> can get them down to 12W idle
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15:32:27  <Celestar> well I even got mine down to 9W with a few tricks
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15:34:41  <Celestar> so you can save about 200 EUR per year at 24/7 run
15:34:52  <Celestar> maybe 150 if unlucky
15:34:58  <Fantasya> really?
15:35:01  <Fantasya> how?
15:35:35  <Celestar> by having your home server in the basement running on a notebook
15:36:14  <Fantasya> what server? :)
15:36:22  <Celestar> the one I don't have (yet)
15:36:23  <Celestar> (=
15:36:34  <Fantasya> ttd?
15:37:05  <Celestar> I was more think about a media server
15:37:16  <Celestar> like putting all the DVDs on it instead of having the disks lying around
15:37:35  <Aali> the best part of running servers on notebooks: built-in UPS
15:37:42  <Celestar> Aali: yes.
15:37:53  <Celestar> not sure about the external HDD however, unless it is 2.5"
15:38:46  <Aali> the worst part of running servers on notebooks: they overheat easily and are generally of shitty quality compared to real server hardware
15:39:01  <Celestar> Aali: Real-server hardware isn't cheap however.
15:39:14  <Aali> i didn't say it was :)
15:39:34  <Celestar> so I can buy multiple notebooks for one of those servers, and I've never had a notebook overheat
15:39:46  <Celestar> and if you run a server on it. CPU load will be pretty lowish
15:39:52  <Aali> you can get used servers for free if you know the right people
15:40:08  <Celestar> yeah, but they still suck about 200 Watts at idle
15:40:29  <Celestar> maybe even more like 300 ..
15:41:04  <Aali> that depends, but a laptop will probably use less
15:41:33  <Celestar> let's be pessimistic and say 25 Watts.
15:41:44  <Celestar> compared to 100 Watts
15:41:56  <Celestar> (For a desktop system which is not carefully designed)
15:42:31  <Celestar> over three years, that's 450 EUR saved in power costs
15:44:07  <Celestar> now let's say we get the laptop to 20Watts and the "free" server hardware pulls 200 Watts, that's about 1100 EUR saved in power costs over three years.
15:44:43  <Celestar> suddenly, the "free" hardware doesn't look that free anymore
15:48:19  <Aali> sure
15:51:42  <mrfrenzy> Celestar: if you want a powersaving server, atleast buy one that is designed for such use
15:52:02  <mrfrenzy> a laptop will fail either with motherboard caps, overheated driver or other problems after continuous use
15:53:28  <Aali> it boils down too how much your data/uptime is worth
15:53:43  <Celestar> mrfrenzy: hence I'm trying to design on around a mobile CPU
15:54:06  <Aali> unless you use sony laptops that burst into flames and take your home with them :)
15:54:19  <mrfrenzy> there are already people who have done this
15:54:52  <mrfrenzy> if it's just for home usage, look at nslu, you can't get lower consumption than that
15:55:12  <Celestar> well, it's just an idea up to now :)
15:55:28  <Celestar> and I gotta go
15:55:29  <Celestar> cu later :D
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16:13:45  <Belugas> aligator
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16:31:54  <petern> i want low power servers for rubbish things like name servers and mail relays...
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16:43:15  <Brianetta> petern: Tranquil PC
16:43:21  <Brianetta> Personal recommendation
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16:48:07  <nicfer> hmmm, would be possible to generate terrains like the ttd ones with companies already funded?
16:49:06  <petern> hmm, they don't do any rackmount kit?
16:49:52  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
16:52:27  <petern> hmm, do oppy 275s support hw virtualization?
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17:04:27  <Belugas> nicfer, i guess it could be possible.  If someone gives himself the trouble of doing so.  And if that someone finds it usefull.  Somehow, i don't feel like that someone
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17:24:13  <petern>
17:32:06  <gynter> do you need original game files for dedicated server?
17:35:31  <glx> yes
17:36:13  <gynter> where can I buy the game?
17:36:44  <gynter> lemme quess. amazon?
17:37:53  <petern> probably not actually, heh
17:38:06  <gynter> hmm
17:38:12  <gynter>  for new in amazon
17:38:23  <gynter> + transport
17:38:31  <petern> £14.99 hmm
17:38:49  <gynter> used
17:38:53  <petern> unlikely that anyone has any stock :p
17:39:45  <gynter> thats so sad, i google for buy transport tycoon deluxe and it gives me thousands of DL links...
17:39:56  <petern> yes
17:40:06  <petern> well oddly enough, most people ask where to download it
17:40:13  <vraa> it's not abandonware yet?
17:40:20  <petern> because search engines are so hard to use
17:40:24  <gynter> vraa, afaik not
17:40:28  <petern> vraa, no such thing...
17:40:56  * Prof_Frink mumbles something about 3407
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17:52:38  <petern> 3407?
17:52:41  <petern> oh
17:55:46  <gynter> 3407 ?
17:55:50  <gynter> whats that
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18:01:32  <Prof_Frink> gynter: Oh, nothing. You certainly wouldn't want to google "transport tycoon 3407".
18:02:27  <Sacro> :o
18:02:29  <Sacro> WAREZ
18:02:55  <Sacro> Prof_Frink:
18:03:30  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Pffft.
18:03:39  <Prof_Frink> I don't want to google it either.
18:03:42  <Sacro> ris?
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18:27:41  * Sacro ponders replying somethign about btoh OpenTTD and the Dreamcast being turing complient
18:28:48  <SpComb> only if you post a working example of OpenTTD implemented using brainfuck while you're at it
18:29:09  <benjamingoodger> I asked some time ago whether OTTD was turing compliant
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18:29:20  <benjamingoodger> someone said "yes, we just implemented NAND"
18:29:53  <benjamingoodger> so I thought I might implement an 8080 microprocessor in OTTD for a summer project
18:30:00  <Wolf01> hello
18:30:01  <benjamingoodger> and then completely forgot about it
18:30:19  <petern> turing compliant?
18:30:29  <benjamingoodger> yes
18:30:35  <benjamingoodger> i.e., "fully programmable"
18:30:41  <petern> is that different from the more usual "turing complete"?
18:30:49  <benjamingoodger> don't think so
18:34:06  <AgentLeMan> °blinks°
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18:39:33  <welshdragon> what is the context of the string 'conditional order jump'?
18:39:55  * welshdragon is trying to translate it into welsh
18:40:12  <welshdragon> and order has 15 different meanings :(
18:40:42  <petern> orders
18:41:16  <AgentLeMan> problem solved. °snickers°
18:41:37  <welshdragon> hmm
18:41:44  <Rubidium> welshdragon:
18:43:15  <welshdragon> which one of: would you say is correct? (just say the english, i will pick the right welsh one)
18:44:11  <petern> have you never played this game?
18:44:18  <petern> do you really not know what an order is?
18:44:36  <welshdragon> yes, but not with those advanced orders :D
18:45:12  <welshdragon> oh feck it, i'll pick one :)
18:45:47  <AgentLeMan> welshdragon, try "siars" for "command" maybe
18:46:44  <Wolf01> I have a problem with the horses :O
18:48:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the only welsh i know is "Nid wyf yn y swyddfa ar hyn o bryd. Anfonwch unrhyw waith i'w gyfieithu."
18:48:05  <Sacro> Wolf01: oh aye ;)
18:48:08  <Wolf01> a long time ago, in a far away computer I tried to start a game with eGRVTS, when I use horses they skip the orders, but other vehicles don't
18:48:29  <welshdragon> Eddi|zuHause, haha
18:48:51  * welshdragon lol'd at that error
18:48:52  <Eddi|zuHause>
18:48:53  <Wolf01> I think is because articulated road vehicles can't enter in road stations but only roadstops
18:49:03  <AgentLeMan> Wolf01, you used the wrong type of horse ;oP try breweryhorses, they are too heavy to jump
18:49:11  <benjamingoodger> Eddi|zuHause: that's quite old :P
18:49:15  <benjamingoodger> it was national news
18:49:25  <Eddi|zuHause> not in my nation :p
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20:14:59  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r14637 /trunk/src/lang/unfinished/arabic_egypt.txt: -Add: stub for Arabic (Egypt).
20:21:32  <Eddi|zuHause> why are all those weird languages popping up suddenly?
20:21:41  <benjamingoodger> weirdos
20:21:57  <petern> someone has too much free time
20:22:04  <benjamingoodger> as I said :P
20:22:24  <petern> no you didn't
20:24:27  <benjamingoodger> I said "weirdos" at least
20:24:47  <benjamingoodger> this was intended to mean "people with too much spare time", "social outcasts", etc
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20:44:19  <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: i think that statement is highly offensive
20:44:50  <benjamingoodger> understandable
20:45:46  <Eddi|zuHause> and you don't even seem to realise what you actually said
20:45:55  <Sacro>
20:46:29  <benjamingoodger> if everyone who spent their free time editing the Latin wikipedia, or translating openttd into ever more obscure dialects of languages, worked overtime instead, and then donated the money to charity, the world would be greatly improved
20:47:24  <mrfrenzy> are you sure the world would be a better place?
20:47:36  <mrfrenzy> maybe more is gained if they train their intellect by working on openttd
20:47:55  <mrfrenzy> or by latin people getting access to wikipedia and later developing some important ideas
20:48:28  <Eddi|zuHause> no, you insult people who try to make sure that a program is translated in their language, and who then make sure that other people in that country use the program who would otherwise not have access to it
20:48:47  <Eddi|zuHause> insulting people's nationality is one of the worst things that pople can do
20:48:58  <petern> arabic is not exactly obscure
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20:49:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the world would be a better place when people would respect that
20:49:16  <yorick> mrfenzy: you actually have latin people 'round that know how to use wikipedia?
20:49:45  <benjamingoodger> "latin people" means nobody at all. nobody in the _world_ speaks latin natively. it is, entirely, a waste of time to translate anything newly into latin
20:50:25  <mrfrenzy> sorry, when I read latin I was thinking mexicans
20:50:41  <petern> ...
20:50:50  <yorick> mh, don't they speak latin in Vatican City?
20:50:59  <petern> well there's a couple of similar letters, i suppose
20:51:02  <mrfrenzy> latinamerican you know
20:51:05  <benjamingoodger> heh :D
20:51:37  <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: it's already a huge insult to compare arabic to latin...
20:52:24  <Eddi|zuHause> probably more people speak arabic than most other languages that openttd is translated to
20:53:15  <petern> pig latin, now that's a really useful translation :p
20:54:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i never understood why you actually went through with that... :p
20:54:14  <petern> well
20:54:17  <petern> if it was up to me...
20:54:20  <benjamingoodger> well, I'm not going to defend myself. I just don't think it's a valid use of anyone's time, translating a computer game into egyptian arabic
20:54:31  <benjamingoodger> or indeed into pig latin. shame on you, sir
20:54:50  <Eddi|zuHause> but people who enjoy toyland would probably also enjoy pig latin :p
20:55:06  <benjamingoodger> well, I think toyland was also an invalid use of microprose's time
20:55:07  <petern> pig latin is fucking pointless
20:55:08  <benjamingoodger> :P
20:55:15  <petern> egyptian arabic is not
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20:55:31  <petern> it is, for example, a real language
20:55:50  <Eddi|zuHause> ... which several million people speak
20:56:15  <petern> esperanto is pretty pointless :D
20:56:30  <petern> and i've never heard of "original vehicle names"
20:56:40  <benjamingoodger> since I am aware that you only said that to annoy me, I shan't rise to it
20:56:49  <petern> anyway
20:57:00  <Eddi|zuHause> i, for example was not discriminating against the language, i just pointed at the fact that there is an increase in the number of new languages lately
20:57:04  <petern> no, it was said because your viewpoint is wrong
20:57:08  <benjamingoodger> anyway, you said it was weird
20:57:23  <frosch123> Eddi|zuHause: ever read the news?
20:57:34  <petern> 1) spend your free time translating to a language
20:57:35  <benjamingoodger> I merely said it was a waste of someone's time, translating a computer game into it. at least I had some sort of reason
20:57:35  <petern> vs
20:57:57  <petern> 2) working over time and giving money away
20:57:59  <petern> wtf is that about
20:58:04  <petern> no
20:58:10  <petern> not a reason at all
20:58:22  <benjamingoodger> well, some sort of _argument_
20:58:27  <benjamingoodger> not just saying it's weird
20:58:51  <Rubidium> vs 3) spend your free time discussing which languages a game should/should not be translated to
20:58:55  <benjamingoodger> what do you mean "wtf is that about?" I thought I made myself perfectly clear
20:58:57  <petern> Rubidium :D
20:59:04  <petern> yes
20:59:10  <petern> you made it clear that you are a fucking idiot
20:59:26  <benjamingoodger> stop using the enter key instead of comma, it's very _very_ annoying
20:59:28  * frosch123 spents about 83 cent every day to be able to join this channel
20:59:32  <Eddi|zuHause> benjamingoodger: even worse, my question was actually purely rhethorical, because i know exactly the reason why new languages are being introduced
20:59:48  <benjamingoodger> and you don't need to degenerate into petty name-calling, this isn't a climatology debate
21:00:02  <frosch123> how much food can you buy with 83 cents in certain countries?
21:00:15  <benjamingoodger> quite a bit
21:00:28  <Rubidium> frosch123: ranging from a few meal to nothing
21:00:32  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: how much money does it cost to transfer 83 cents to those countries?
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21:01:12  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: about 6-8 euros (assuming they don't use IBAN)
21:01:16  <frosch123> it does not solve the problem when there is no food to buy though
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21:01:28  <yorick> 83 zimbabwanian dollarcents?
21:01:43  *** sigmund_ [] has joined #openttd
21:02:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure he meant eurocents ;)
21:02:53  <yorick> how many zimbabwanian dollars are that?
21:03:26  <Eddi|zuHause> twice that next week ;)
21:03:34  *** sigmund [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:03:52  <Eddi|zuHause> (at least that was the inflation rate during the german hyperinflation)
21:04:27  <yorick> they're currently at 231 million % and some more
21:04:49  <petern> i wonder how long till we're (in the uk) all doomed
21:04:49  <benjamingoodger> slightly better than zimbabwe's, then
21:05:05  *** rortom [] has joined #openttd
21:05:13  <benjamingoodger> petern: GB's criteria for joining the eurozone is euro-sterling parity
21:05:24  *** vraa [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:05:30  <benjamingoodger> so we will be printing our first euro banknotes tomorrow afternoon
21:05:57  <Eddi|zuHause> the question is if we would actually still want you to join at that point :p
21:06:16  <benjamingoodger> indeed, indeed...
21:06:22  <petern> that's about the right amount of notice
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21:06:26  <yorick> "Zimbabwe hyperinflation is set to surpass post Second World War Hungary's hyperinflation(12.95 quadrillion percent per month, ie. prices doubling every 15.6 hours) by the end of 2008"
21:07:17  <Eddi|zuHause> 13 quadrillions? how much is that in real millions?
21:07:34  <benjamingoodger> 13 quadrillion == 13.000 trillion
21:07:53  <benjamingoodger> == 13 billion billion
21:07:53  <Eddi|zuHause> that was not my question
21:08:11  <benjamingoodger> == 13 million million million
21:08:30  <Eddi|zuHause> because in real millions, 1 quadrillion is 1 million trillions
21:08:48  <petern> :o
21:08:48  <benjamingoodger> I think you're referring to the long scale rather than "real" millions
21:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> which is clearly not what is meant
21:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the real long scale
21:09:02  <benjamingoodger> ¬.¬
21:09:06  <Eddi|zuHause> the one that the entire world uses
21:09:12  <petern> 13,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000?
21:09:17  <yorick> %
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21:09:37  <petern> oh
21:09:47  <petern> 13,000,000,000,000,000?
21:09:53  <rortom> hi all
21:09:56  <yorick> hi rortom
21:10:23  <rortom> yorick, saw bug report?
21:10:46  <yorick> where?
21:11:26  <benjamingoodger> note that the long-scale million is the same as the short-scale million
21:11:31  <Eddi|zuHause> so 13 billiard is the answer?
21:11:41  <rortom> yorick: topic of #openttd-python
21:11:54  <benjamingoodger> the short-scale quadrillion is equal to the long-scale billiard
21:12:11  <Eddi|zuHause> see? it wasn't that difficult, was it?
21:12:22  <petern> feh, they should just use 13*10^15 notation...
21:12:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and now i actually have an impression of the size of the number
21:12:49  <petern> indeed
21:12:57  <benjamingoodger> what is the number?
21:13:23  <petern> ...
21:14:03  <yorick> it's the inflation Zimbabwe is expected to reach end 2008
21:14:13  <benjamingoodger> GDP of the european union?
21:14:44  <Eddi|zuHause> do you actually read anything that is said?
21:15:10  <Vikthor> I am afraid GDP of EU takes opposite heading
21:15:33  <petern> probably has yorick on ignore
21:15:38  <petern> which is... understandable sometimes :p
21:15:43  <benjamingoodger> aha! yes, that's it!
21:15:44  <rortom> lol :p
21:15:48  <benjamingoodger> sorry, yorick, I forgot
21:15:59  <yorick> :D
21:16:04  <Eddi|zuHause> right... i should have considered that :p
21:16:18  <benjamingoodger> how do I un-ignore someone? :(
21:16:38  <Eddi|zuHause> /unignore <someone's hostmask>
21:16:50  <benjamingoodger> thank you, sir
21:17:09  <Eddi|zuHause> or go to the ignore list of your client
21:17:52  <benjamingoodger> yeah, I've never been able to find one... :S
21:18:17  <benjamingoodger> so what was the number, in the end?
21:18:28  <petern> zambabwean inflation
21:19:03  <Eddi|zuHause> no, hungarian inflation as reference ;)
21:19:11  <benjamingoodger> ah
21:19:24  <petern> oh
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21:19:48  * yorick slaps benjamingoodger
21:20:13  <Eddi|zuHause> interestingly, we did not learn about that inflation in school...
21:20:55  <yorick> secret :]
21:21:18  <benjamingoodger> interesting indeed
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21:22:43  <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing we got taught about hungary after WW I is the uprise in 1956
21:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause> nothing about what happened inbetween...
21:24:17  <benjamingoodger> this is very good ~~~
21:25:26  <yorick> "One source states that this hyperinflation was purposely started by trained Russian Marxists in order to destroy the Hungarian middle and upper classes."
21:25:59  <yorick> what's with offtopic youtube links?
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21:36:46  <frosch123> yorick: they are no problem when the poster is /ignored by all except DorpsGek :p
21:37:48  * benjamingoodger finally correctly unignores yorick
21:39:27  <yorick> benjamingoodger: really?
21:39:33  <benjamingoodger> yep
21:40:18  * rortom <3 cmake
21:40:41  <benjamingoodger> I'm sure
21:41:08  <rortom> build ing ogre and 5 plugins and RoR like a charm :D
21:42:57  <yorick> cmake :o
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21:44:38  <benjamingoodger> :)
21:45:03  <yorick> gui :/
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21:57:41  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:58:20  <rortom> petern: ror working again :)
21:58:34  <rortom> one step closer to get it done
21:58:48  <petern> who what?
21:59:34  <petern> what compiler/environment do you use?
21:59:46  <petern> i was thinking of playing with ogre a little
22:00:00  <petern> but, uh, vs c++ 2008 express sucks
22:02:51  <rortom> hehe
22:03:03  <rortom> i just finished switching RoR to cmake
22:03:16  <rortom> im very pleased of how it works atm
22:03:29  <rortom> im working on linux x86 currently
22:03:32  <petern> i only ever wanted 64 bit linux support ;(
22:04:00  <petern> updated ubuntu packages'd be nice
22:04:02  <rortom> i will compile one version for you, dont worry ;)
22:04:06  <petern> i know someone who can make those *cough*
22:04:13  <rortom> :p
22:04:24  <rortom> sano was the ubuntu package maintainer so far
22:04:42  <rortom> the problem was that we didnt release an update for linux, and now its too late
22:05:11  <petern> we all know what the real problem is
22:05:14  <petern> but never mind
22:05:17  <petern> things are the way things are
22:05:23  <rortom> yeah :\
22:05:49  <glx> cmake looks good indeed, but it failed to give me a working allegro5
22:06:27  <glx> though it may be related to allegro5 not being stable
22:06:37  <rortom> hehe ;)
22:06:53  <rortom> the scripting in cmake can get complex
22:07:08  <petern> ogre itself is complex enough for me :o
22:07:09  <rortom> but i think its still easier then the horror of SCons
22:07:18  <rortom> oh, for sure ;)
22:07:29  <rortom> i searched a bug like one week now
22:07:43  <rortom> and i found it in the DDS unpack method of ogre ...
22:08:19  <rortom> once you got behind the ogre concept, things are getting easy :)
22:08:36  <rortom> also, those guys from transport empire anything are using ogre for their engine
22:08:53  *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
22:09:05  <petern> the guy is, yes
22:09:49  <rortom> indeed ;)
22:10:06  <rortom> i wanted to help, but i cannot find time for anything :\
22:10:58  <glx> rortom: btw does switching to cmake means 0.36 is near ?
22:11:45  <petern> hmm, is TE more open now?
22:11:57  <petern> last time i tried to comment on something the forums were locked down
22:12:01  <rortom> not necessarily ;)
22:12:14  <rortom> @ glx
22:12:31  <rortom> we nearly recoded our resource management
22:12:35  <rortom> so lots of changes
22:12:55  <rortom> new installation method using a system like xplane, etc
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22:16:07  <rortom> petern you can code on a new editor ;)
22:16:32  <rortom> using ogre, c++, wxwidgets and the middle connection :)
22:16:46  <rortom> see
22:16:52  <rortom> or
22:22:07  <petern> hmm?
22:22:42  <rortom> as an exercise for you i mean ;)
22:23:05  <rortom> i want to crap the ror toolkit (thats using python)
22:23:08  <petern> ahh
22:23:59  <rortom> maybe i should start working on some version and you can join the team? :p
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22:27:47  <petern> hee
22:28:04  <petern> hmm, braking is odd
22:28:05  <Jango> anyone done any work on ID3 tags?
22:28:16  <Jango> i need a decent library
22:28:24  <Jango> in php, python, java or something
22:28:25  <petern> a high speed is slows rapidly... at lower speeds it slows less
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22:29:44  <rortom> Jango, im sure the is something
22:29:50  <rortom> petern you mean in RoR?
22:29:53  <petern> yeah
22:30:10  <Jango> yeah, undoubtably, wheat in the chaff somewhere
22:30:11  <rortom> we should improve it, thats correct ;)
22:30:23  <Jango> but i don't want to waste my time sifting :)
22:30:28  <rortom> lol
22:30:59  <petern> rortom, is there a roadmap for ror?
22:32:26  <rortom> mh, not really
22:32:37  <rortom> atm we concentrate on getting 0.36 out ;)
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22:33:29  <glx> will it allows more flexbody vehicles without ugly artifact?
22:33:45  <rortom> yes
22:34:01  <rortom> thats fixed like since 4 months ago
22:34:15  <rortom> but it will ship with 0.36
22:34:20  <glx> not in 0.35+flexbody ;)
22:34:27  <rortom> yea ;)
22:34:36  <rortom> we fixed it shortly after that
22:35:01  <rortom> actually it should be possible to convert a xml file by hand, but no one tried it so far ;)
22:35:02  <petern> artifacts?
22:35:27  <rortom> some 3d model exportes use shared vertices and some not
22:35:33  <glx> yes you can't use 2 identical flexbody vehicles at the same time
22:35:55  <rortom> oh, that. That was a one line bugfix ;)
22:35:58  <petern> hmm
22:36:09  <petern> never did that, heh
22:36:26  <petern> i only noticed the wheels when using 'k' ...
22:36:52  <glx> funny to watch the non driven one's body follow the direction of the driven one
22:38:40  <rortom> ;)
22:40:40  <nicfer> one question, will be ported to 0.6.4 (if that's even released) the trunk's ability to read the opengfx files?
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22:45:09  <glx> probably not
22:45:59  <petern> i'd say defintely not
22:46:07  <petern> also
22:46:22  <petern> google sketchup is the simplest 3d design program i've ever used :o
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22:54:24  <rortom> petern its the simplest and worst for moddeling anything of value
22:54:38  <rortom> since it exports in horrible ways
22:55:15  <benjamingoodger> 'tis
22:55:19  <petern> nah, everything else imports in horrible way s;)
22:55:31  <rortom> no
22:55:36  <benjamingoodger> I also find it improbably difficult to use, but my brain doesn't like 3d visualisation anyway
22:55:41  <rortom> its internal texture handling is horrible
22:56:08  <rortom> the sketchup->ogre guy can tell you something :p
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22:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm afraid this channel is going way off-topic every time rortom speaks :p
22:59:53  <rortom> ;)
23:00:02  <benjamingoodger> :)
23:00:08  <rortom> we can also speak about my ottd stations GUI :p
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23:02:44  <TMS> How would I go about getting my dedicated (openttd.exe -D) server's stats on a web page?
23:02:56  <TMS> simply doing it on the OTTD website isn't enough for me. :o
23:04:17  <rortom> there is a stats thing somewhere
23:04:36  <rortom> or install the ottd python bot :p
23:04:42  <TMS> :O
23:04:45  <TMS> Where?
23:04:51  <TMS> Either one is fine.
23:05:14  <rortom>
23:05:14  <TMS> I might be afk for about 2 hours within the next half hour but I'll probably be back after that, so if you can come up with a answer soon, that'd be great.
23:07:38  <TMS> well, if there's any possible way of gathering the data into a database that'd be great
23:08:20  *** [com]buster [] has joined #openttd
23:08:49  <rortom> thats what the bot does
23:08:56  <rortom> but its currently very limited
23:09:10  <rortom> so you may want to use the autopilot / php frontend thingy
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23:28:17  <fjb> What are the effects of inflation?
23:28:55  <vraa> lower unemployment
23:28:58  <SmatZ> fjb: prices and max loan growing
23:29:02  <SmatZ> in TTD world
23:29:05  <vraa> oh
23:29:08  <vraa> of course
23:29:08  <SmatZ> :)
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23:30:02  <fjb> I was asking about the game world. Does everything grow in the same way?
23:30:35  <SmatZ> do you mean exponentially?
23:30:45  <petern> cargo grows at 1 percentage point less than everything else
23:30:50  <petern> cargo payment rates
23:31:08  <rortom> petern
23:31:13  <rortom> new cpp editor home ;)
23:31:40  <petern> woo
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23:31:56  <fjb> petern: Thank you. That would explain a lot. I'm always going bankrupt around 1940 when starting in 1831.
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23:33:30  * petern heads to bed
23:34:19  <fjb> Good night petern
23:36:09  <Eddi|zuHause> well, higher difficulty actually reduces this spread ;)
23:36:47  <Eddi|zuHause> the (geometric) difference between 4% and 3% is less than between 2% and 1%
23:37:23  <fjb> And the value depends on the difficulty setting?
23:38:06  *** Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:38:38  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, interest rate in the difficulty setting
23:38:56  <fjb> Ah, ok.
23:39:31  <Eddi|zuHause> afaik, inflation stops overall after 150 years, but i'm not entirely sure about that
23:39:45  <fjb> That was low in this game. Still trying to ballance the game with the startdate of 1831.
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