Log for #openttd on 31st December 2008:
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00:33:28  <Wolf01> 'night
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00:44:59  <tokai> Eddi|zuHause: hmm.. a picture from my town ;)
00:45:11  <Eddi|zuHause> tokai: yes, i know ;)
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00:53:00  <xahodo> Hello
00:54:37  <xahodo> I've bumped in a problem: a savegame complains about missing grf's... and then doesn't tell me which grf it misses. :(
00:56:20  <xahodo> Catch is: I've got all the newgrf's needed.
00:56:55  <Eddi|zuHause> when you load the game, you can open the newgrf setting window
00:57:21  <xahodo> errr... load game -> crash
00:57:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it will show green icons for correct grfs, yellow icons for grfs of different version and red icons for missing grfs
00:58:30  <Eddi|zuHause> err... crash is not nice... can you update to tonight's nigtly? it should fail more gracefully ;)
00:58:52  <xahodo> This is what I get:
00:59:14  <xahodo> And here's the savegame:
00:59:37  <xahodo> I'm on current trunk.
00:59:47  <xahodo> sorry: head
01:00:50  <Eddi|zuHause> öhm... could you load the savegame before? is it one of your savegames?
01:01:48  <xahodo> It's a savegame I'm currently playing with a friend.
01:02:14  <xahodo> I'm going to check the previous nightly now.
01:02:16  <Eddi|zuHause> so when was the last time you could load the savegame?
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01:03:46  <xahodo> Well, this is a network game. This is what the server passed me for a savegame.
01:04:09  <xahodo> i.e. log-in download
01:05:14  <xahodo> r 14757 gives the same problem.
01:06:40  <Eddi|zuHause> then fetch the data/newgrf folder of your friend, and put it into your data folder
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01:07:19  <xahodo> Done that, I am now trying to compare MD5's.
01:07:27  <xahodo> *comparing
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01:13:21  <Eddi|zuHause> "This usually takes about 10 minutes (from around 1am UTC to 1.10am)" <- that's totally a lie
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01:24:23  <darks> Rubidium: i found why there is the problem about non-latin, exactly is the problem about CJK.
01:26:43  <xahodo> Another note about the savegame: prior to the save a company was deleted (the company hasn't built anything) and currently depots built by the third player can't be removed by anyone.
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01:29:27  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, there was some change about deleted companies recently
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01:30:56  <xahodo> The third player was the player owning the deleted company (he decided to join the already present company).
01:31:49  <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 14750
01:31:50  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by rubidium :: r14750 trunk/src/economy.cpp (2008-12-26 21:49:00 UTC)
01:31:51  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Fix [FS#1993]: in an MP game in SP mode no company would go bankrupt. Furthermore companies that passed the "bankrupt" period (4 quarters) wouldn't go bankrupt when loading the game back in MP. Now any company that is in MP or not "currently controlled by the player" in SP will bankrupt.
01:32:44  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe related to that?
01:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> could you try nightly from before?
01:33:15  <xahodo> which rev would that be?
01:33:50  <Eddi|zuHause> how should i know...
01:34:58  <xahodo> wait... I'll just try a revision before your commit :)
01:36:27  <xahodo> wasn't there a savegame bump in the meantime?
01:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know
01:37:28  <Eddi|zuHause> haven't seen a commit message telling there was one
01:37:34  <xahodo> r14749: openttd: /home/xander/dev/openttd/trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp:272: void TrainConsistChanged(Vehicle*, bool): Assertion `u->First() == v' failed.
01:37:59  <Eddi|zuHause> then i can't help you
01:38:04  <Eddi|zuHause> possibly make a bug report
01:38:17  <xahodo> ok
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01:47:54  <darks> Is there any CJK(Chinese Japanese Korean) player?
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01:49:00  <darks> Is there any CJK(Chinese Japanese Korean) player? A problem about the CJK characters typing....
01:53:18  <Eddi|zuHause> darks: i fear that this is not the best place to ask such exotic questions, you could try the forum. and i am sure there are japanese tt forums
01:53:51  <Eddi|zuHause> the vast majority of people here are european
01:54:34  <darks> Eddi|zuHause: thx. Should I post this problem in the forum named OpenTTD Problem ?
01:54:46  <darks> Eddi|zuHause: ok
01:55:17  <Eddi|zuHause> you can also state your problem at
01:55:23  <Eddi|zuHause> with as much detail as possible
01:56:35  <darks> Eddi|zuHause: ok...I will try it.thx
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06:22:04  <Rubidium> darks: fcitx works with Linux and SDL and should work with allegro if allegro is build with XIM support (which my allegro hasn't)
06:24:50  <darks> Rubidium: yes, the config of fcitx a bit hard for a guy who doesn't know chinese. but now i've found it's not the unicode problem
06:25:55  <darks> Rubidium: i found openttd cannot type CJK because it cannot support CJK characters choice
06:27:03  <darks> Rubidium: i will have some screenshot for you to show how to type cjk, and it may hlep you to understand.OK?
06:27:48  <Rubidium> darks: I can enter Chinese characters just fine
06:28:26  <darks> Rubidium: can you show me a screenshot?
06:40:02  <Rubidium>
06:40:30  <Rubidium> the first part of the company name should make sense in chinese, the other might very well not
06:41:25  <Rubidium> typed ni hao and ha ra ju ku (which is somewhere in Japan, but that doesn't really matter as it's about input)
06:47:32  <darks> Rubidium: ok...i know it should be the bug only for OS
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06:48:29  <Rubidium> does fcitx work for other applications on OSX?
06:49:36  <JdGordon> hey, is there a problem/bug with the loading system? I have a oil drill supposedly making 333K barrels or whatever per month, and the station has about 6 ong oil trains on full load but they just sit waiting for oil and I cant get the transported percent up over about 60%?
06:50:11  <Rubidium> transport percentage has to do with the station rating
06:50:57  <Rubidium> and 333k liters is not much for 6 trains
06:51:04  <darks> Rubidium: fcitx working needs that it's the default XIM. OSX has a similar IM, using the Apple API to rebuilt, called fcit
06:51:47  <darks> Rubidium: wait several min, i'm uploading my screenshot
06:51:53  <JdGordon> Rubidium: the station ratings is "very good" for both goods being serviced there
06:52:17  <Rubidium> which is somewhere near 60%
06:52:53  <JdGordon> 71% and 69% currently
06:53:43  <JdGordon> how do i get the rating up to get more transported?
06:54:10  <Rubidium>
06:55:43  <Rubidium> darks: can't find anything called fcit for mac
06:58:41  <darks> Rubidium: fitx...i just made mistakes
06:58:49  <darks> Rubidium:
06:59:17  <darks> Rubidium: it's general typing Chinese. OK...
07:00:44  <darks> Rubidium: sorry,the link is uncorrent... the corrent link is below:
07:01:13  <darks> Rubidium:
07:01:38  <darks> Rubidium:
07:04:10  <Rubidium> hmm... you did use OSX 10.4.something, right?
07:04:21  <darks> Rubidium: yes
07:06:48  <darks> Rubidium: the problem is i can type the other keyboard unicode language in it. but cjk, no the dialog box for me to choose the characters...
07:10:59  <darks> Rubidium: if possible, i hope to fix it just like the patch for textmate or other way.
07:17:34  <Rubidium> darks: I won't be of much help to you; I don't have OSX and I can't find any clues to how to support fitx or any of the other input methods in OSX
07:18:07  <Rubidium> so either practically "just" trying or theoretically looking at APIs that might be usefull failed :(
07:18:29  <petern> bjarni could help, surely?
07:18:55  <darks> petern: bjarni ?
07:19:06  <petern> ignore me, just a little joke
07:19:47  <darks> Rubidium: i know this. but can you tell me which src is about the typing box?
07:20:44  <Rubidium> Bjarni's the OSX guy and the guy that hasn't fixed any OSX related bug for many many months
07:21:15  <darks> Rubidium: maybe i'll try to find some codes to build a dialog box just like the textmat you saw. the patch of textmate is developped by a Japanese.
07:21:37  <darks> Rubidium: ......
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07:22:27  <darks> Rubidium: exactly I found the same problem in win98
07:22:28  <Rubidium> darks: misc_gui.cpp is about the text box and the OSX backend is kinda in video/cocoa/
07:22:31  <petern> hmm, is it me or does switching realistic acceleration off not work properly?
07:23:01  <Rubidium> darks: win98 doesn't have unicode
07:23:18  <Rubidium> at least OpenTTD for win98 hasn't unicode
07:23:34  <petern> huh? it does internally...
07:23:48  <Rubidium> unicode input then...
07:24:10  <darks> Rubidium: thx...i will try to read the src in the spring vocation...
07:24:35  <Rubidium> and it's possible to have unicode input in win9x, but that requires compiling with a MSVC which can't compile parts of the rest of OpenTTD
07:24:54  <darks> Rubidium: oh, i see
07:25:18  <Rubidium> but you're free to fix MSVC ;)
07:26:22  <petern> ah, it's me
07:26:40  * darks Chengdu City,Sichuan,China is too cold now...
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07:52:25  <petern> what temp is it?
07:52:28  <petern> it's pretty cold here
07:56:59  <darks> petern: where are you now?
07:58:43  <darks> petern: just above zero in Chengdu but wet and always heater here...
08:00:43  * edeca yawns
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08:19:43  <petern> in the uk
08:20:40  <petern> my thermometer says it's -5 deg C
08:20:53  <petern> it's hardly calibrated though :)
08:20:59  <darks> petern: you are in holiday now...but you have heater
08:21:00  <edeca> It was -1 in the car on my way to work (also UK)
08:21:22  <petern> yeah, the heating it on
08:21:24  <petern> *is
08:21:45  <petern> -1 is more realistic :)
08:21:47  <darks> it is about 5 in chengdu, no heating.....
08:22:05  <petern> the canal is frozen over, but then it's a canal
08:23:11  <edeca> petern: As long as you're not living *on* the canal :)
08:23:59  <petern> well there are some boats moared there
08:27:24  <edeca> If the savegame type is OTTZ and the savegame isn't built with ZLIB, does the game refuse to open the file?
08:27:34  <edeca> Er, 2nd savegame should just be "game"
08:27:52  <petern> it should do
08:27:59  <edeca> Ah, that's cool
08:28:25  <petern> hmm
08:28:28  <edeca> Just wondering how to add compression support to templates, either compress if ZLIB is available or uncompressed if it's not.  Is that sensible?
08:31:46  <edeca> And give an error if trying to load compressed templates without ZLIB support
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08:52:03  <petern> > gronk.
08:52:03  <petern> 08:22 < pp124C4U> everbody's gorn?
08:52:05  <petern> er
08:52:09  <petern> if (d > max & !Train.Cars[i].Derailed & !Train.Cars[i - 1].Derailed)
08:52:13  <petern> spot the problem!
08:52:25  <Alberth> &&
08:55:13  <petern> quite
08:56:54  <petern> all over this code :(
09:00:55  <Alberth> changing that is less dangerous than being outside, where people play with explosives
09:06:32  <petern> a quick search and replace
09:06:43  <petern> then fix the few occurances where it should be single...
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09:26:49  <Wolf01> hello
09:26:55  <edeca> Hi
09:27:40  <Wolf01> bah... I tried tikiwiki... too complicate, I'll revert to mediawiki
09:28:21  <edeca> I like mediawiki
09:29:06  <Wolf01> they have a complete different syntax
09:34:10  <petern> ouch
09:34:18  <petern> 4500 lines and 365KB of patch :/
09:35:32  <Wolf01> wow :O
09:36:09  <petern> for openbve, not openttd, i'm afraid
09:36:46  <edeca> What's openbve?
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09:44:02  <petern> a train driving simulator
09:44:10  <edeca> Aah.  I can't load the website right now
09:45:06  <petern> indeed
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09:46:35  <edeca> yorick: Ah, at last we meet again
09:46:51  <yorick> :p
09:48:17  <edeca> yorick: Get my PM?
09:48:38  <yorick> yup
09:48:52  <edeca> yorick: Cool.  You going to sync your changes with it?
09:48:57  <yorick> sure
09:49:05  <yorick> but my rotation is currently broken :/
09:49:12  <edeca> yorick: I started on compression earlier, but can't compile because my repository is in a mess
09:49:29  <yorick> what does it say?
09:49:32  <edeca> In fact, it just segfaults for me at the minute
09:49:38  <edeca> On FindWindowById at startup
09:49:49  <edeca> The same patch worked fine on cygwin, hrm
09:49:52  <yorick> that'd be the gui
09:50:08  <edeca> Yeah, but I've not changed anything (I used my patch) since I compiled on cygwin :)
09:50:56  <edeca> So I guess I've got to fix that first, unless you have?
09:51:07  <yorick> nothing broken here
09:51:19  * yorick recompiles
09:51:21  <edeca> Can you sync  yourchanges then
09:51:25  <edeca> That way I'll be up to date with you
09:54:37  <yorick> ok, it compiles and works
09:54:51  <edeca> Excellent.  Can you push your changes then so I have a working version too :)
09:55:14  <yorick> ...
09:55:20  <edeca> ....
09:55:20  <yorick> I'm working on that
09:55:24  <edeca> Working on it? ;)
09:56:47  <yorick> there :)
09:57:10  <edeca> Cheers!
09:58:38  <edeca> I've synced mine too now, let's see if it compiles
09:59:02  <edeca> I've added versioning & started on compression
10:00:20  <edeca> It uses 2 headers now, TPLN and TPLZ.  It will error if a version without zlib tries to open a compressed one
10:00:24  <edeca> Make sense?
10:00:40  <yorick> yes
10:01:28  <edeca> Versioning is a uint16 (same as the game) currently at 1
10:01:43  <edeca> It will error with the same message as the game if you try and load a newer version that you have support for
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10:57:05  <petern> gah
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11:09:06  <Wolf01> [10:44:05] <petern> a train driving simulator <- traitor :(
11:09:40  <yorick> :D
11:10:35  <Wolf01> what are you doing yorick? what kind of rotation?
11:11:28  <dihedral> mornin
11:11:31  <yorick> copy paste rotation
11:11:39  <Wolf01> hello dih
11:11:56  <yorick> I'm trying to free bits so that it can store multiple signal types per tile and pbs
11:12:04  <Wolf01> oh
11:12:06  <Wolf01> nice
11:18:28  <dihedral> copy & paste is a waste of time & effort - you'll never learn how to improve if you just build once (or use a template from someone else) and just paste it wherever you want it
11:18:35  <dihedral> + your network will always look the same!
11:18:37  <dihedral> what a bore
11:19:48  <Alberth> dihedral: it might be useful to move an entire complex 1 tile
11:20:15  <dihedral> as for which reason would you do that?
11:20:39  <yorick>  as for repeating layouts
11:20:41  <dihedral> you have a wee hill / lake in the way and dont know how to work with that and don't want to terraform?
11:20:53  <dihedral> yorick, i thought i was on your ignore list!
11:20:57  <dihedral> what a shame
11:23:22  <dihedral> oh - he's reading the logs again :-P
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11:30:54  <dihedral> Alberth, well - tbh i can imagine people using it....
11:31:31  <dihedral> i just don't see it as 'useful' as people think it is :-P
11:32:00  <dihedral> i.e. if i just paste stuff (which people will do) they will be unable to build stuff on their own (which i have seen too)
11:32:28  <Alberth> I sometimes want to expand a station and then need 1 tile more space than I have atm.
11:32:38  *** valhalla1w is now known as valhallasw
11:32:46  <Alberth> Your criticism is correct though, such a feature is overrated.
11:32:57  <yorick> that's the main reason for using copy-paste for me too
11:33:38  <Alberth> so construct a copy/paste for at most 3 tiles displacement :)
11:33:55  <Wolf01> the only reason for me is to copy & paste the load balancher along the main tracks, I always mistake something building it by hand 20 times :D
11:34:51  <yorick> and things like presignal bypass are basically 2 times the same
11:36:06  <edeca> Building long mainlines with overtaking is very boring
11:36:11  <petern> hmm, still not right
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11:36:20  <edeca> Especially if you just want the same thing across a whole 2048 map
11:36:23  <petern> removed the speed limit and this pendolino got up to 452mph eventually
11:36:28  <edeca> That's what I want C&P for
11:36:37  <petern> took a few years mind you
11:36:51  <Alberth> and a very long straight track :)
11:36:58  <petern> fairly, yeah
11:37:08  <petern> it's a circle
11:37:37  <petern> 454 mph, a = 0.0003 m/s^2
11:38:15  <petern> airdrag must be wrong
11:38:51  <petern> it's finished accelerating at 455 mph
11:39:18  <petern> hmm, now, stopping...
11:40:02  <petern> that was about 400 tiles to stop
11:40:04  <dihedral> do you guys ever think of the network server?
11:40:18  <dihedral> a client that is pasting can basically DOS the game!
11:40:33  <dihedral> i just paste with a very high speed and not other client gets to do a single DoCommand!
11:40:56  <dihedral> s/not/no
11:41:00  <dihedral> /
11:41:37  <petern> ok, unladed eurostar
11:42:59  <petern> er, unladen
11:43:02  <petern> 751 mph, haha
11:43:40  <dihedral> hehe
11:43:55  <dihedral> rocket science in OpenTTD :-D
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11:48:19  <Prof_Frink> What about a 4-head chimera?
11:56:55  <petern> who cares?
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11:57:36  <Skyruner2> hi@ all
12:06:41  <petern> 1100mph :o
12:07:56  <Skyruner2> im trying to compile for the first time... is it normal that there are warnings?
12:08:58  <Skyruner2> hmm seems to run.. but only without musik
12:09:25  <yorick> what warnings?
12:10:22  <Skyruner2> in newgrf.cpp: ChangeInfoResult is set to a boolean value
12:10:43  <Skyruner2> and '>' konflickt between signed and unsigned in network_gui.cpp
12:11:24  <petern> that one's normal
12:11:43  <petern> or rather, it's not just you
12:11:50  <Skyruner2> ok :)
12:12:51  <Skyruner2> the first one in newgrf.cpp specifies that this assigment could have performance effects
12:13:07  <Skyruner2> thats newgrf.cpp line 2440
12:13:28  <OwenS> Skyruner2, you using MSVC++?
12:13:50  <Skyruner2> 2008 Professional
12:14:05  <Skyruner2> yes, its a legal copy :)
12:14:07  <OwenS> MSVC tends to complain about stuff that GCC doesn't
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12:14:40  <OwenS> The conflict one is probably more important though
12:15:43  <Skyruner2> its something to do with the key press down arrow and scrolling through the server list
12:16:12  <OwenS> I'll never understand why MSVC complains about implicit int -> bool casts though
12:16:38  <Skyruner2> first time im actually taking a look at the code... - id love to programm a bit but ill have to get acquainted with the code first
12:17:24  <Skyruner2> well it only complains because of possible performance effects
12:17:58  <OwenS> Thing is, the way it implements it, there aren't any!
12:18:55  <dihedral> hence the word "possible"
12:19:21  <OwenS> How about the way the C++ standard implements it?
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12:20:23  <OwenS> Which is basically a bool is true it it's not equal to zero
12:21:14  <Skyruner2> where can i finde the code "a vehicle arrives at a station" ?
12:21:41  <yorick> try Vehicle.cpp
12:23:07  <edeca> Look for whatever calls Vehicle::BeginLoading ;)
12:23:58  <Skyruner2> i made the mistake of clicking "show class diagram" - now its creating the diagram.. ... ... ... ...
12:27:34  <edeca> Well the actual code is in <type>_cmd.cpp
12:27:37  <edeca> e.g. ship_cmd.cpp
12:27:54  <edeca> And called <Type>EnterStation
12:27:59  <edeca> e.g. ShipEnterStation
12:28:04  <edeca> So there, I found it forf you
12:28:24  <Skyruner2> thanks!
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12:31:38  <edeca> Where shall I send the bill?
12:36:13  <Skyruner2> oh how much is it?
12:36:18  <Skyruner2> ive already sold my soul
12:37:49  <edeca> I don't do souls, hard cash only
12:41:25  <Prof_Frink> Why hard cash? The floppy stuff's much lighter and is worth more.
12:41:41  <Rubidium> what is hard cash?
12:41:53  <Skyruner2> coins.. mostly pennies
12:42:07  <Rubidium> you mean those pieces of metal/paper that can be exchanged for debts?
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12:42:49  <Skyruner2> well the are just debt reciets themselves..
12:43:39  <Rubidium> so you're basically giving him an "I owe you"
12:44:06  <Rubidium> of someone you most likely do not know
12:44:52  <Skyruner2> its the only thing he would accept
12:45:10  <Prof_Frink> No, it's a "The Bank of England owes you"
12:45:46  <Skyruner2> well im in germany.. so the european central bank owes you
12:45:52  <Skyruner2> go ask them
12:46:04  <Rubidium> and it's like the bank will give you your money when nobody repays his/her loans?
12:46:08  <Skyruner2> im sure the have a gold coin to give you :P
12:46:49  <Skyruner2> they wont give you money.. just iou's
12:47:04  <Rubidium> every euro/pound/dollar that is on your bank account has been lend out to like 10 other entities
12:49:00  <Skyruner2> ok ill take you as one of them.. lets find 8 more people and go to the bank - "you gave us the same Euro - we want a real one"
12:49:23  <Skyruner2> i dont think that will work :P
12:49:45  <Darkvater> bah
12:49:46  <Rubidium> eh presto... the reason why banks go bankrupt
12:50:03  <Darkvater> I still don't have time to work at my hobbies
12:50:04  <Darkvater> ;p
12:50:09  <Darkvater> you cruel world
12:50:17  * dihedral waves hello to Darkvater
12:50:21  <Rubidium> Darkvater: no worries... tomorrow you've got an extra second
12:50:28  <dihedral> :-P
12:50:36  * Darkvater waves back
12:50:55  <dihedral> \o/
12:50:56  * Darkvater will now contemplate on how to spend this generous additional second
12:51:04  <dihedral> hihi
12:51:16  <Rubidium> that's stupid... as you've already spend it contemplating
12:51:25  <dihedral> so you are gonna waste 10 minutes on how to treasure one second?
12:51:26  <Rubidium> poor soul ;)
12:51:29  <Darkvater> that's impossible, I don't have it yet
12:51:36  <Darkvater> I'm spending my other seconds
12:51:58  <Darkvater> which are obviously a given and not as precious as one receiving additionally
12:52:21  <Darkvater> silence please :)
12:52:26  <Darkvater> my work-seconds come for free :D
12:52:41  <dihedral> they dont - you age with every single one
12:52:42  <Eddi|zuHause> i kill you.
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12:52:58  <dihedral> well done Eddi|zuHause - you scared it away
12:53:20  <Darkvater> Eddi|zuHause: I don't think that's a wise decision. Seconds are personal, non-refundable and not transferable
12:53:33  <dihedral> :-P
12:53:52  <Darkvater> and now look, I've wasted 5 minutes of my life :(
12:55:41  <dihedral> no you have not
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12:56:12  <Darkvater> which will only return to me in 1000 years :(
12:56:35  <Darkvater> I curse you Rubidium
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13:09:56  * petern sighs
13:10:17  <petern> area = 120 m^2 ... seems a bit high for a train...
13:10:37  <petern> so it must consider some other scaling factor too, which is not documented.
13:11:03  <Skyruner2> depends on the train
13:11:16  <Eddi|zuHause> shouldn't the area be rather fixed by the loading gauge?
13:12:51  <petern> Skyruner2, yes, but the cross-section area of the whole train should not vary that much
13:13:00  <petern> bit simplified, but a carriage is a carriage...
13:13:40  <yorick>  is there any recent windows binary of grfcodec?
13:13:54  <yorick> one that's not at least 2 years old :p
13:14:04  <Eddi|zuHause> the only thing that can really vary by train design is the drag coefficient
13:14:15  <petern> yes
13:14:18  <Eddi|zuHause> the area should be almost the same for any train
13:14:24  <petern> sort of
13:15:05  <Eddi|zuHause> well, certainly, the tube has a different area than a german double decker wagon...
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13:28:44  <petern> lol!
13:28:52  <petern> i found a figure on the internet
13:28:57  <petern> for locomotives, 120
13:29:01  <petern> 120 ... sq ft...
13:29:16  <petern> SI for area is not sq ft...
13:29:49  <Skyruner2> that would only be 11m²
13:29:58  <petern> yeah
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13:31:40  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the size of an average bedroom
13:33:31  <petern> hm
13:33:44  * petern ponders future newgrf properties
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13:40:48  * Swallow ponders prop 20
13:41:10  <petern>
13:41:13  <petern> ^ stupid units :/
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13:44:08  <Swallow> btw air drag is not just 1/2 * cw * A * Rho * v^2, but also air friction with the side of the engine/wagons
13:44:31  <Skyruner2> damn simplified physics
13:44:40  <petern> that is mentioned later i think
13:47:16  <Eddi|zuHause> really... those units make you crazy...
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13:54:46  <Eddi|zuHause> air drag should be the major limit for high speed trains, tractive effort on grades for freight trains
13:55:04  <petern> yeah, but
13:55:06  <yorick> air drag should be less when in tubular bridges/tunnels
13:55:22  <petern> yorick: more
13:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> more, because the air pressure rises
13:55:55  <petern> well
13:56:04  <petern> using that revised 120 -> 11 figure doesn't help drag :/
13:56:50  <Skyruner2> When adding the profit of a cargoPacket to the year profit of the train why is the profit sifted by 8?
13:57:19  <Skyruner2> economy.cpp line 1518
13:57:20  <Skyruner2> front_v->profit_this_year += profit << 8;
13:57:26  <Eddi|zuHause> Skyruner2: because the last 8 bits are fractional value?
13:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> they are shifted back somewhere else
13:59:20  <Eddi|zuHause> "T is weight in kips" <- what kind of unit is that?
14:00:34  <petern> in what?
14:00:47  <yorick> kps?
14:01:14  <yorick> kilo-psi?
14:01:43  <Prof_Frink> kibi-german-horsepower.
14:02:06  <yorick> KiloPascal
14:02:10  <yorick> kPa
14:03:48  <roboboy>
14:04:04  <roboboy> It is equivalent to one half of a U.S. ton
14:06:24  <petern> crazy
14:06:46  <Eddi|zuHause> really, they should stop teaching this crap
14:06:58  <petern> a kip is 1000 lb fource
14:07:00  <petern> *force
14:07:01  <petern> *or*
14:07:07  <petern> a kip is half a us ton
14:07:08  <petern> wtf
14:07:34  <petern> well
14:07:41  <petern> lb force != lb :o
14:07:46  <petern> same as fl oz != oz
14:07:57  <roboboy> so 2 kips = 1 us ton
14:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause> only on certain places on earth's surface
14:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> because one is a unit of weight (force), and the other of mass
14:09:28  * Prof_Frink adds "fuckkip" to the dictionary.
14:10:11  <Alberth> is a us ton equal to a metric ton? (1000 kg)
14:10:21  <Prof_Frink> Don't be silly.
14:10:33  <Alberth> (hmm, no of course not how could it be)
14:10:40  <Prof_Frink> No two ton(ne)s are the same.
14:10:58  <petern> Eddi|zuHause: the problem with grades in ttd is obvious
14:11:07  <petern> only a tiny portion of the train is actually on the grade
14:11:13  <petern> which is not quite like real life
14:11:27  <Eddi|zuHause> there's the short ton and the long ton, but i don't know which one is used in the US
14:11:48  <Eddi|zuHause> petern: well, i'd just take the highest grade the train is on
14:12:29  <petern> Eddi|zuHause, yeah, with your model that is not implemented ;)
14:12:40  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
14:12:49  <petern> a 7 tile train with 4 tiles at 3% doesn't struggle much at all
14:13:10  <petern> lol
14:13:27  <petern> maybe i should test with something other than a 10,000hp super freight engine from the future :p
14:14:22  <petern> EMD type 5
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14:32:25  <roboboy> gnight and happy new year
14:37:08  *** roboboy [] has quit [Quit: ajax IRC Client]
14:38:04  <Eddi|zuHause> is it new year yet?
14:38:16  <Skyruner2> somewhere
14:38:22  <glx> for him yes
14:38:26  <Eddi|zuHause> i know my sense of time is off... but that far?
14:39:11  <glx> australia is +12 (or something like that)
14:39:20  <Eddi|zuHause> if it's new year for him, he must be at least +10 timezone or something
14:39:23  <Rubidium> glx: he's in +9:30
14:40:53  <petern> +9:30:01
14:41:01  <Belugas> hello
14:41:14  <petern> stupid hst is going 209mph :(
14:41:32  <Rubidium> petern: no, cause they'll have 09:29:60 (local time)
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14:50:07  <Eddi|zuHause> the +1 second is done in all timezones synchronously
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15:05:43  <yorick> autorail needs sprites :p
15:07:17  <yorick> road*
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15:10:00  <Eddi|zuHause> draw them.
15:11:15  <yorick> I'm no good at sprite drawing
15:14:04  <Belugas> can you at least pinpoint which sprites are missing?
15:16:59  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: the overlay sprites for road building, similar to the autorail sprites (that show a preview of the road/rail bit that is about to be built)
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15:29:18  <Belugas> won't be that hard to draw then... straigh lines and such...
15:29:33  <Belugas> come on yorick, ya can da it
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15:31:41  <Eddi|zuHause> "ya can da at" :p
15:32:05  <Eddi|zuHause> # DrÃŒ ChÃŒnÃŒsÃŒn mÃŒt dÃŒm KÃŒntrÃŒbÌß
15:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> # sÌßÌn ÃŒf dÃŒr StrÌßÌ ÃŒnd ÃŒrzÃŒhltÃŒn sÃŒch wÃŒs
15:33:04  <Eddi|zuHause> # dÌ kÌm dÌ PÌlÌzÌ, nÌ wÌs Ìs dÌnn dÌs?
15:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> # DrÃŒ ChÃŒnÃŒsÃŒn mÃŒt dÃŒm KÃŒntrÃŒbÌß
15:33:30  * Prof_Frink collects all the loose punctuation Eddi|zuHause carelessly left on his letters
15:34:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, at least they don't fall down!
15:34:33  <Eddi|zuHause> (PS: German "Ì" is spoken like French "u")
15:34:57  <Prof_Frink> And how do the french say "u"?
15:35:28  <glx> we say "u"
15:35:34  <Eddi|zuHause> like in "rien ne va plus"
15:35:46  <yorick> snow!
15:36:16  <Eddi|zuHause> we don't have snow here
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15:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause> although everything is white, too
15:36:27  <yorick> you will
15:36:35  <yorick> it just started snowing
15:37:41  <Eddi|zuHause> there was one year
15:37:48  <Eddi|zuHause> where my friend drove me home
15:37:53  <Eddi|zuHause> and it just started snowing
15:38:10  <Eddi|zuHause> halfway through, we had to turn around, because the road was completely blocked
15:41:32  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... there are too many different meanings of "Reif", can't find the proper translation... i'd go for "rime" or "frost"
15:41:49  <Eddi|zuHause> as in the white frozen water that covers the plants
15:47:12  <Sacro> frost
15:47:15  <Sacro> rime isn't a real word
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16:00:44  <Prof_Frink> Ancient Mariner.
16:04:49  *** Skyruner2 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:04:51  <Belugas> Iron Maiden!
16:11:30  * Prof_Frink wanders along to Powerslave
16:11:46  <Belugas> good call :D
16:14:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Sacro: but it's what the dictionary says
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16:22:38  <Prof_Frink> Eddi|zuHause: Sacro is an uncultured Northerner. He doesn't know words.
16:22:51  <Prof_Frink> Rime is, indeed, a form of frost
16:27:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is that, in german, "Reif" can also mean "Ring"
16:28:26  <Prof_Frink> A frosty ring. Nasty.
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16:40:42  <petern> better than a burning ring?
16:41:55  <Eddi|zuHause> +3 defense and +3 mana regeneration?
16:42:15  <Prof_Frink> ...not exactly.
16:43:40  <Eddi|zuHause> +1 vitality; add (3) to remove a burden?
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16:47:29  * petern spots a problem with te/max_te
16:51:41  <Eddi|zuHause> you just gonna tease us, or are you actually telling what the problem is? :p
16:55:09  <petern> it's done for the whole train
16:59:29  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it should be done for each vehicle
16:59:33  <petern> quite
17:00:00  <petern> effectively now high power with low maxte + low power with high maxte == high power with high maxte
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17:15:14  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14778 /trunk/src/ -Change: completely hide 'Submit report' button on crash dialog (MSVC)
17:15:25  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r14777 /trunk/projects/ (determineversion.vbs version_vs80.vcproj version_vs90.vcproj): -Fix: be sure to update ottdres.rc and rev.cpp when their .in changes (MSVC)
17:15:34  <glx> that's a lag
17:44:31  <OwenS> glx: Why hide the button? You can somehow sign up with MS' (for free as I understand it) to collect those reports
17:45:18  <glx> OwenS: it's our window
17:45:56  <OwenS> Aah
17:52:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r14779 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r14747) [FS#2485]: selling an articulated vehicle removed only the first part and not the rest.
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18:32:19  <George> Happy new year!
18:33:07  <mincepie> indeed so!
18:34:02  <mincepie> the arbitrarily-chosen date at which we increment the "year" section of our date system is approaching. let us therefore DDoS the world's SMS and GSM networks
18:37:39  <petern> verily
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18:40:31  * Prof_Frink prepares to DoS his liver
18:40:49  <mincepie> I've heard worse excuses to drink
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18:42:02  <Prof_Frink> We should have new year around september/october time.
18:43:26  <mincepie> it makes more sense to have it either at an equinox or a solstice
18:43:32  <mincepie> I propose the vernal equinox
18:43:47  <mincepie> the winter solstice is kind of occupied by christmas...
18:44:50  <Prof_Frink> vernal equinox has the other christian chocolate fest
18:45:14  <mincepie> oh, yes, that's true
18:45:24  <mincepie> damn christians, they've got every option covered
18:45:46  <Prof_Frink> So, autumnal.
18:45:48  <mincepie> erm, ok... summer solstice?
18:46:45  <Prof_Frink> Yeah, that could work
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19:00:44  <petern> okay, i've figured out how to make the acceleration "realistic"
19:00:51  <mincepie> oh god
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19:01:13  <petern> such that 0.5 m/s^2 results in a speed increase of 0.5 m/s over a real world second
19:01:14  <mincepie> how can you make it realistic when the game operates on five different scales?
19:01:20  <petern> quite
19:01:28  <Prof_Frink> petern: a=0 throughout autumn and winter due to leaves and ice on the tracks?
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19:01:43  <mincepie> Prof_Frink: only within the UK renewal set
19:02:11  <petern> cb36 to the rescue!
19:02:25  <petern> so yeah
19:03:33  <mincepie> or perhaps we should force the player to deploy class 37s for salt-spreading
19:04:24  <petern> question is, what rate of acceleration should be used
19:04:46  <Prof_Frink> 9.81ms-2
19:04:55  <petern> hurr hurr
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19:07:29  <petern> that's another thing, max te is done with 10 instead of 9.81, heh
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19:08:24  <petern> the forces are still wrong though :p
19:08:41  <petern> this class 91 with no speed limiter goes... fast
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19:20:54  <Belugas> nice joke...
19:21:10  <Belugas> "Come up to a coktail in half an hour"
19:21:26  <Belugas> i can';t take any alcohol... i'm on anti-biotics :(
19:21:42  <Belugas> plus allthe pain killers i've swallowed
19:21:44  <Belugas> booooo
19:22:43  <petern> :/
19:23:25  <petern> you'll enjoy the new year with clarity
19:23:26  <petern> or
19:23:29  <petern> if you're like me
19:23:33  <petern> you'll enjoy it asleep
19:24:17  <Belugas> the latter, i'd say :)
19:24:59  <mincepie> petern: 9.81 does not apply worldwide
19:28:03  <Belugas> i might try to give it a go at re-resurecting newobjects...
19:28:16  <Belugas> i still ned to fix the local_id for houses
19:28:30  <Belugas> it's a byte while it should be an uint16
19:29:24  <Belugas> then i'll fall asleep on the keyboard, my wife will get upset becasue i'm not with her for THE countdown, etc etc...
19:29:26  <Belugas> mmh
19:45:45  <Belugas> OR i should try to finish my Myst IV game...
19:48:07  <petern> mincepie, i doubt that 700m variation affects it much
19:49:42  <mincepie> I doubt the difference between 10 and 9.81 m·s⁻² will affect it much either
19:49:57  <mincepie> since it's not possible to define m in this case...
19:59:07  <petern> indeed not
19:59:44  <petern> it's enough to make a visible difference in the gui though
19:59:55  <mincepie> meh
20:01:33  <petern> people complained when 1.6 was used instead of 1.609 for mph to km/h conversions...
20:02:22  <mincepie> well, that would make an actual difference
20:03:01  <mincepie> choosing a value for g is pretty much a matter of what looks good
20:03:06  <Belugas> silly people craving for realism... as if their lives were soooo boring they had to look for realisty fix in their games o_O
20:03:49  <mincepie> Belugas: very few of us can afford an elaborate model railway system, and fewer still can afford to buy an actual railway system
20:05:30  * Belugas fails to see the point in arguing over 1.6 and 1.609 with what mincepie jsut put out as a potential excuse
20:06:15  <petern> well
20:06:27  <petern> the intercity 225 was not called the intercity 224 ;)
20:06:41  *** KritiK [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
20:07:12  <mincepie> there was a 225?
20:07:28  <mincepie> oh, a 91
20:08:08  * mincepie does not exist in electrific-land
20:08:20  <Wolf01> I'm going to watch a movie, happy to everybody :)
20:08:38  <mincepie> happy goodyear?
20:08:42  <mincepie> *tut*
20:08:56  <Wolf01> ok, you understood
20:09:15  <mincepie> I got the point
20:09:21  <Wolf01> s/happy//
20:09:26  <mincepie> you could have made a much better joke without recourse to tinyurl, I think
20:09:53  <Wolf01> I'll be back next year ;)
20:11:08  <petern> Eddi|zuHause, ee type 1, 1000hp/184kN pulling 514 tons up a 7 tile slope dropped to 9mph
20:12:49  *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@] has joined #openttd
20:16:21  <petern> oh dear
20:16:39  <petern> the 500hp 0-6-0 can't make it
20:17:47  <petern> it would be going backwards if that was supported
20:19:39  *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:25:06  *** OsteHovel^EEE [] has joined #openttd
20:25:34  <OsteHovel^EEE> Hi all :D
20:25:56  <OsteHovel^EEE> Im using linux... just for saying that first...
20:26:30  <OsteHovel^EEE> Is there posible to compile openttd for Windows CE on Linux?
20:27:28  <Rubidium> it wasn't possible some (half?) year ago
20:27:47  <Rubidium> neither is windows CE supported
20:28:03  *** nicfer [] has joined #openttd
20:28:50  <OsteHovel^EEE> ok
20:31:36  <Rubidium> but not being able to compile a windows CE on linux might very well be something with the toolchain
20:32:30  <OsteHovel^EEE> if its not support then i will not try anymore anyway... im gonna stick just with the 0.6 build that exist for Windows CE(mobile) on the internet...
20:33:26  <mincepie> hm, the intercity 225 was built during the same period as me
20:33:32  <mincepie> and introduced in the same year
20:33:41  <mincepie> I think I am rather better designed
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20:36:58  <OsteHovel^EEE> lol
20:47:16  <petern> pah, children
20:47:48  <mincepie> I'm older than my body
20:48:36  <mincepie> (that's a meaningless statement, but meh)
20:49:27  <mincepie> oh, and additionally: pah, old people
20:49:36  <yorick> pah, old people
20:50:13  <mincepie> pah, yorick
20:50:26  <yorick> why that>
20:50:36  <petern> why not?
20:50:44  <mincepie> nothing, it just amuses me that you've become the channel punching bag
20:52:16  <mincepie> oh, and incidentally, I am not a child
20:52:40  <yorick> just out of curiosity, when was it built?
20:53:06  <petern> '88 to '91
20:53:08  <mincepie> 88-91, and introduced in 90
20:53:20  <yorick> oh, it's older than me
20:53:35  <mincepie> we guessed
20:55:39  <Belugas> ^_^
20:56:00  <mincepie> :D
21:04:07  *** Dred_furst [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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21:22:20  <Belugas> mmh... iguess it's time for me to fly away from that darn office...
21:22:31  <Belugas> HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!!!
21:22:33  * Belugas is gone
21:22:49  <OsteHovel^EEE> :P
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22:38:40  <Belugas> Yeah yeah yeah... as I step in my house, phone rings...  office call blaaaaaa!
22:39:14  <mincepie> :S
23:00:19  <HerzogDeXtEr1> Happy New Year
23:02:05  <mincepie> *nod*
23:02:14  <mincepie> happy new year, UTC+1
23:11:41  <thingwath> most of this channel is UTC+1, isn't it?
23:12:19  <mincepie> I suppose so
23:13:54  *** mortal [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:14:11  <thingwath> hm, there might be some people from UK
23:14:13  <thingwath> whatever
23:22:37  <mincepie> I am
23:38:25  <Wolf01> year++;
23:38:34  <Wolf01> :D
23:38:39  <OsteHovel^EEE> Happy new year everyone!
23:38:52  * OsteHovel^EEE is UTC+1(or CET)
23:38:56  * OsteHovel^EEE is from NORWAY!!
23:39:21  * Wolf01 is from North-Africa!
23:39:37  <Wolf01> ehm... banana's republic
23:39:44  <Wolf01> ...Italy!
23:39:51  <yorick> happy new year from holland :)
23:40:54  <mincepie> happy new year from, ah, cornwall ¬.¬
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