Log for #openttd on 15th January 2009:
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00:03:56  <Belugas> [17:43] <@petern> so when it went back to loud suddenly, i jumped :/  <-- lol!
00:04:06  <Belugas> how moch do I understand you :D
00:04:42  <Belugas> much o_O
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02:30:40  <Belugas> bug found
02:30:42  <Belugas> pffff
02:39:54  <SmatZ> really?
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02:57:15  <Belugas> in chaindrive
02:57:18  <Belugas> not open
02:57:20  <Belugas> sadly
02:57:25  <Belugas> or luckily?
02:57:26  <Belugas> dunno
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03:00:56  <Belugas> GO TO SLEEP SMATZ!!
03:01:05  <mor> hello....
03:01:21  <Belugas> hello mor
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03:01:38  <mor> is there open ttd for iphone??
03:01:53  <Sacro> mor: not officially
03:02:01  <mor> for the 2.2 version?
03:02:16  <Sacro> 03:05 < Sacro> mor: not officially
03:02:16  <mor> i know to the 1.1.4 there is....
03:02:26  <Sacro> 03:05 < Sacro> 03:05 < Sacro> mor: not officially
03:02:46  <Belugas> mor, we DO NOT support iphone application
03:02:54  <mor> ho....
03:02:58  <mor> i see...
03:03:10  <Belugas> it's not built by our team, we have no contact with the one who do
03:03:13  <mor> only pc  right?
03:03:25  <Belugas> and i'm sure none of teh devsa have a iphone
03:03:28  <Belugas> pc indeed
03:03:38  <Belugas> been laptop or desktop
03:03:48  <SmatZ> it runs on mobila phones
03:03:48  <mor> sucks man......
03:03:52  <Sacro> Belugas: personal computer
03:03:55  <mor> i love this game...
03:04:04  <mor> i has it on my pc...
03:04:08  <Sacro> mor: when Apple become more lenient with their licencing
03:04:20  <Sacro> and one of the devs gets one then it might happen
03:04:21  <mor> hehe....
03:04:30  <SmatZ>
03:04:40  <mor> there is a versio for the iphone...
03:04:53  <Belugas> cool for those who have an iphone
03:05:01  <mor> but is for the older version
03:05:03  <SmatZ> not officially supported though :)
03:05:11  <mor> yep...
03:05:19  <Belugas> mor, even if it's old, you still have a version
03:05:32  <mor> i wont work....
03:05:41  <mor> i tried....
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03:05:55  <Belugas> you now know that it serves no purpose to complain about it in here :)
03:06:18  <mor> so wanted to have this game on the go..
03:06:21  <mor> yep...
03:06:24  <mor> i know...
03:06:39  <Belugas> laptop is your friend then ^_^
03:06:52  <mor> i guess....hehe :)
03:07:12  *** mode/#openttd [+v SmatZ] by SmatZ
03:07:19  <mor> any way,thanks for your answer....
03:07:44  <Belugas> no prob
03:07:45  <Belugas> have fun
03:08:03  <mor> best regards..... :)
03:08:06  <Belugas> and SmatZ, i'm going to sleep, ya shald da tha same
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03:08:57  <SmatZ> :-)
03:09:04  <SmatZ> good night, Belugas :)
03:09:11  <SmatZ>  I will just finish one thing....
03:09:22  * SmatZ wishes he was paid by the cocomo model :-P
03:09:37  <SmatZ> *according to
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04:25:56  <De_Ghosty> !dl win32
04:26:05  <De_Ghosty> oops
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05:42:17  <Eddi|zuHause> no warez bots here :p
05:49:01  <goodger> indeed...
06:02:47  <keiya> Uh.
06:03:23  <keiya> Someone needs to add an extra check to the town-road code/
06:04:24  <keiya> To, you know, avoid swastika-towns
06:04:40  <keiya> ((Unless you want OpenTTD to be illegal in Germany...)
06:06:43  <goodger> :S
06:07:01  <goodger> I don't see that the town-road code can easily detect the accidental generation of swastikas
06:10:13  <Sacro> there's far funnier things for the germans to find ;)(
06:11:26  <keiya> Sacro: Are there other things illegal to distribute in germany?  >_>
06:11:59  <keiya> (Personally, I just laughed and demolished half the town.)
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07:18:15  <petern> TrueBrain, ping  :o
07:21:56  <petern> or
07:21:59  <petern> Rubidium, ping  :o
07:22:11  * Forked pongs anyway
07:23:45  <Rubidium> pang
07:25:33  <Rubidium> petern?
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07:46:47  <planetmaker> morning
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07:47:19  <goodger> morning planetmaker, vraa_, Rubidium, petern
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07:48:11  <vraa_> sup goodger :D
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07:50:31  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 1e6/12
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07:50:52  <Eddi|zuHause> err...
07:50:57  <goodger> ^_^
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07:51:27  <Eddi|zuHause> De_Ghosty killed him, with his warez stuff
07:57:09  <Tim-itry> Uhm... + wiki down?
07:57:47  <Rubidium> works fine here
08:01:42  <Rubidium> hmm... looking at it looks like about half is missing
08:01:55  <Rubidium> so there must be some IX or peering that's broken
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08:03:06  <_Felicitus> howdy
08:03:23  <petern> *nod*
08:03:32  <petern> works from my server but not from my desktop
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08:04:10  <petern> although
08:04:19  <petern> my tracert gets to leaseweb
08:05:20  <petern> a different part of leaseweb, though
08:07:38  <_Felicitus> i have a strange thing in openttd: since today, my two favourite servers (which i added to the config yesterday) dont appear in the "find servers" list anymore, and they are completely gone from the config - does openttd store such things anywhere else?
08:10:21  <planetmaker> hm... what happened to I cannot access it...
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08:10:41  <planetmaker> doh... first read, then write ;)
08:10:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: nothing happened with it...
08:10:47  <_Felicitus> :)
08:10:47  <goodger> ^_^
08:12:04  <planetmaker> hm... is there a serious re-wamp of the newgrf selection UI planned, if the fruits in the basket ripe at some time?
08:13:07  <planetmaker> e.g., I wonder how much it is worth to invest either in the existing UI replacement or even re-write it such that it has more similarities to the now existing advanced settings dialogue
08:13:22  <planetmaker> which would improve its readability a lot imo
08:13:52  <planetmaker> should there be means to introduce categories for newgrfs
08:14:15  <planetmaker> (like taking the directory names or information similar to that
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08:16:38  <Rubidium> directory names is (in my opinion) not a way to sort newgrfs and the like
08:17:48  <planetmaker> is an information file which stores category information a way to go? User editable? Or maybe a dedicated file like ottdDirInfo which provides information about dir content?
08:17:59  <Rubidium> petern: what's the ip of your home?
08:18:34  <Rubidium> or rather your desktop (at least one that fails to connect to
08:19:39  <Rubidium> planetmaker: that's going to be a mess when you're moving around newgrfs
08:20:05  <planetmaker> IP fails to connect, too
08:20:48  <planetmaker> Rubidium: well, yes. But then the directory structure usually doesn't need much moving around and it's easily maintainable
08:21:17  <Rubidium> planetmaker: can you do a traceroute to and paste it at
08:21:21  <Eddi|zuHause> why not let the user choose how to sort newgrfs?
08:21:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not like it would be the only sortable list
08:21:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: so you never add/remove newgrfs by copying them into a directory?
08:21:54  <Rubidium> or removing them from said directory
08:22:05  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: the problem is that there's nothing (reliable) to sort them on
08:22:24  <Eddi|zuHause> you mean the directory structure can change midgame?
08:22:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't get your point
08:23:25  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: if you put all newgrfs in a single directory, what should it sort on?
08:23:33  <Eddi|zuHause> filename?
08:23:33  <planetmaker> <- @ Rubidium
08:23:44  <Rubidium> what when the newgrfs are scattered over several search paths?
08:23:59  <Eddi|zuHause> same order as the search paths
08:24:10  <planetmaker> Rubidium: filename. But sorting via dir structure is e.g already done by the coop grf pack and any user can easily re-sort, if s/he doesn't like that
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08:25:00  <Eddi|zuHause> fact is, some kind of newgrf management must be added
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08:26:16  <planetmaker> and scattered... you mean local grf dir and global? well. Then it's the user's fault, is it?
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08:26:39  <petern> Rubidium:
08:26:49  <Eddi|zuHause> while at it: i occasionally need grfs to be marked as "obsolete", i.e. not show those grfs in the list, but have them available for backwards compatibility
08:27:10  <planetmaker> :) he, yeah, I would like that, too, Eddi|zuHause :)
08:27:32  <Rubidium> imo it's better to add tags to newgrfs themselves
08:28:00  <planetmaker> put them in a tar, jointly with an information / tag file?
08:28:01  <Rubidium> like "german", "rail", "road", "uk"
08:28:09  <Eddi|zuHause> so, how do you want to add these tags? .ini file?
08:28:24  <Rubidium> well... should be part of the newgrf
08:28:37  <Tim-itry> does not work either, if that helps you...
08:28:39  <Eddi|zuHause> do you also want people to be able to easily add translation strings?
08:29:05  <planetmaker> like info.dat which contains lines like: Category: trains; Country: uk; Author: PB; ... ?
08:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> .dat seems like an awful way to specify that...
08:29:50  <planetmaker> and another would then be Category: infrastructure...
08:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> sounds very binary
08:30:01  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: why? Just make it a txt file with extention .dat :)
08:30:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, sure :p
08:30:32  <Eddi|zuHause> microsoft would totally do that ;)
08:30:40  <planetmaker> pfft ;)
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08:44:18  <petern> Tim-itry... it wouldn't, being a private ip address...
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09:07:15  <Rubidium> C=XX,ST=There is no such thing outside US,L=Everywhere,O=OCOSA,OU=Office for Complication of Otherwise Simple Affairs, <- someone must've been in a funny mood or so
09:08:52  <goodger> ^_^
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09:51:51  <Rubidium> petern, planetmaker: can you reach the website again?
09:53:48  <planetmaker> doesn't look like... (trying out wiki... and hg...)
09:53:57  <petern> nope
09:54:04  <petern> oddly enough i'm not at home now
09:55:34  <Forked> "belive it or not, george isn't at home.. please leave a messaaageee at the beep.. "
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10:11:04  <Rubidium> petern, planetmaker: and now?
10:12:16  <planetmaker> yes. works :)
10:12:59  <petern> still at work ;)
10:13:25  <petern> my traceroute to work looks better though
10:13:49  <petern> and to home
10:14:06  <petern> so yeah, i guess it's working :D
10:17:07  <_Felicitus> is it possible to set the servicing interval for all trains at once, or do i have to set it manually for each train i already built?
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10:54:03  <petern> no, you can't :/
10:54:32  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, you have
10:54:39  <_Felicitus> damn :)
10:54:51  <Eddi|zuHause> unless you decompress the savegame and flip the appropriate bits
10:55:03  <TrueBrain> just set it before building
10:55:04  <TrueBrain> much easier ;)
10:55:05  <Eddi|zuHause> or you create an AI
10:55:24  <Eddi|zuHause> which goes through all trains, and sets the service interval
10:56:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i really don'k know why you are against running AI scripts directly from the console...
10:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> s/k/t/
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10:56:50  <_Felicitus> Eddi|zuHause: it gives people an unfair advantage in multiplayer
10:56:51  <petern> switching an AI on mid-game?
10:56:56  <petern> quite some cheat ;)
10:57:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it would not give them any more unfair advantage than an AI would have
10:58:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i would totally have scripts running that check for stuck trains and stuff
10:58:23  <Eddi|zuHause> or "advanced" autoreplace
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11:00:14  <Eddi|zuHause> or that scenario from yesterday (?) with sending unnecessarily waiting vehicles to depot
11:05:36  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: with Squirrel suuport in console, it wouldn't be a problem :)
11:05:48  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: exactly.
11:07:30  <TrueBrain> it still would be very much cheating :)
11:08:12  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: i don't see how you would prevent client side patches anyway
11:08:41  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: doesnt mean we have to make it VERY easy
11:08:46  <TrueBrain> there is a difference :)
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11:09:45  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: suggestion, allow servers to be marked as "no-scripts allowed"
11:10:07  <Rubidium> whahaha
11:10:21  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: which would be VERY easy to patch client-side ;)
11:10:28  <Rubidium> that's like marking server "no map flattening allowed"
11:11:05  <Eddi|zuHause> well, some servers implement checks for that already
11:11:35  <SmatZ> for copy&paste patch?
11:12:05  <SmatZ> or for map flattening...
11:12:22  <SmatZ> everything is possible...
11:12:23  <mrfrenzy> "Hey! this user is clicking too fast"
11:12:35  <SmatZ> but also, it is possible to fool any check of this kind
11:12:36  <SmatZ> hehe
11:13:21  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but if the intention is to block script-kiddies, every increasing barrier will work only for some time
11:13:36  <Eddi|zuHause> that includes "we won't make patching easy"
11:13:46  <mrfrenzy> I don't seee c&p as cheating, just an improved UI. the challenge in the game is not about building stuff fast, rather making smart designs
11:13:52  <Eddi|zuHause> as soon as there is a patch, patching WILL be easy
11:14:03  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: not making the option at all, should give a reasonable amount of barriers to pass ;)
11:14:12  <SmatZ> hehe
11:14:30  <SmatZ> if c&p isn't allowed, you may code a script that builds it for you :-P
11:14:38  <SmatZ> even the c&p patch may generate that script ;)
11:14:46  <Eddi|zuHause> if you build it, he will come
11:14:51  <SmatZ> ==> making c&p obsolete as it is now...
11:15:32  * SmatZ is goting to put some food to his stomach :-P
11:19:41  <TrueBrain> but I guess it was just a matter of time before someone would start to talk about scripts to 'help' users .. just I didn't expect it to be Eddi|zuHause ;) :p
11:20:04  <Eddi|zuHause> "start"? i've been talking about that for ages...
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11:39:51  <De_Ghosty> we need c&p!!!!!!
11:40:38  <petern> lies
11:43:13  <planetmaker> :) c&p is for lazy :P
11:45:26  <TrueBrain> c&p spoils the game
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12:19:52  <petern> someone commit something
12:20:05  <FauxFaux> I'd love to.
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12:32:49  * planetmaker fears FauxFaux commits...
12:33:45  <SmatZ> -Revert (r15027): because I can :-P
12:35:50  <frosch123> hehe, would have expected "revenge"
12:36:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15087 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Less hardcoding of y positions in town authority window.
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12:37:30  <dihedral> petern, you could create the 'favorits' tab for the lobby window :-)
12:37:43  <petern> no i couldn't
12:37:44  <dihedral> and an option for selected servers: add to favorits
12:37:53  <dihedral> and on the fav tab an option 'remove'
12:38:02  <petern> but
12:38:05  <petern> - 0x6B!
12:38:09  <petern> y offset... in hex!
12:38:15  <dihedral> nice....! :-S
12:38:27  <SmatZ> :-)
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12:41:30  <yorick> how many ttd crates of goods would fit in 153 cu ft?
12:43:53  <planetmaker> 6
12:44:15  <petern> 9000
12:44:26  <SmatZ> >
12:44:32  <petern> over!
12:44:42  <petern> yorick, why are you using stupid units?
12:44:43  <planetmaker> !pi * 42 ;)
12:44:47  <SmatZ> :o)
12:45:08  <Forked> how many bits does one crate of goods use and what fontsize are we printing with?
12:45:14  <petern> 153 cu ft = 4332 litres
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12:45:37  <yorick> because the it's listed that way :p
12:46:29  <petern> the it's!
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12:47:34  <Eddi|zuHause> 4m³, sounds like a small storage space
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12:48:04  <petern> it does
12:49:27  * petern grumbles at windows not making alt-gr behave the same manner as X11 does
12:49:49  <Forked> Windows eXPerience :)
12:50:43  <Eddi|zuHause> i never had that kind of problem...
12:51:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15088 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#2536]: Resize company list in town authority window if required.
12:51:47  <petern> Eddi|zuHause? it's just the way things are, not any particular bug...
12:51:58  <petern> alt-gr + 4 works the same, mind you :)
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12:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Œ?
12:52:23  <petern> €
12:52:35  <Eddi|zuHause> that's on altgr+e here
12:52:46  <SmatZ> AltGr doesn't have any special function for me (KDE)
12:52:47  <petern> yeah. not on uk keyboards
12:53:14  <petern> alt-gr + 4 did used to generate a 1/4 until the prevalence of keyboards with a euro symbol there
12:53:23  <petern> SmatZ: for X11 it depends on the keyboard layout
12:53:30  <planetmaker> yeah... some more commits. Yesterday the frequency for this year was like every hour one commit.
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12:53:44  <petern> using a US layout does not make alt-gr do anything special, for example
12:53:50  <SmatZ> ah...
12:53:51  <petern> clearly americans never need any special characters...
12:54:09  <petern> alt-gr + ; then a gives me a á
12:54:33  <Eddi|zuHause> i once learned that the original idea of altgr was as a shortcut for ctrl+alt
12:54:35  <SmatZ> for some reason switching keyboard layout affects only newly started apps for me (since ~December)... I should fix that :-/
12:54:53  <petern> alt-gr + the symbol keys in that group all give different (but repeatable, heh) accent characters
12:55:14  <SmatZ> yeah, alt-gr with czech layout works as expected ;)
12:55:29  <Eddi|zuHause> german layout uses dead keys for accents
12:55:32  <petern> i love this 'compose' feature :)
12:55:40  <petern> so i miss it somewhat in windows
12:55:45  <SmatZ> ŧ←ŧ← it types characters I have never seen :-P
12:55:55  <petern> :)
12:56:00  <petern> @bugs
12:56:00  <DorpsGek> petern: Error: The command "bugs" is available in the OpenTTD and WT2 plugins.  Please specify the plugin whose command you wish to call by using its name as a command before "bugs".
12:56:03  <petern> @openttd bugs
12:56:03  <DorpsGek> petern: Temporary Offline
12:56:05  <petern> hm
12:56:20  <Eddi|zuHause> lack of xmlrpc, i presume
12:56:28  <Rubidium> FS removed XMLRPC
12:56:32  <TrueBrain> not so temporary after all :)
12:56:52  <SmatZ> there is Rubidium and TrueBrain still watching us :)
12:57:11  <yorick> .away away
12:57:18  <Eddi|zuHause> .fail
12:57:54  <TrueBrain> SmatZ: kind of our job, not? :)
12:57:58  <SmatZ> :-)
12:58:52  <petern> hmm
12:59:00  <dihedral> petern, @fs 123
12:59:01  <petern> i wonder how to send an encrypted email from the command line... in windows...
12:59:05  <dihedral> oh
12:59:11  <yorick> telnet ;)
12:59:15  <petern> dihedral, what?
12:59:17  <yorick> Eddi: .care
12:59:22  <dihedral> @fs 2536
12:59:22  <DorpsGek> dihedral:
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12:59:24  <dihedral> :-)
12:59:40  <petern> that's not what @openttd bugs did
12:59:52  <dihedral> i know
12:59:55  <petern> so then shut up
12:59:56  <petern> :)
12:59:59  <petern> kindly
13:00:02  <petern> would you kindly...
13:00:03  <dihedral> :-P
13:00:10  <SmatZ> 8-)
13:00:19  <petern> (if you've played bioshock...)
13:00:26  <dihedral> i have
13:00:29  <dihedral> the first one only though
13:00:32  * SmatZ hasn't :-/
13:00:34  <petern> yeah that one
13:00:43  <dihedral> that was really awesome
13:00:54  <petern> hang on
13:01:01  <petern> there is only a first one, isn't there?
13:01:04  <petern> or was 2 released...
13:01:05  <dihedral> oh....
13:01:11  <dihedral> then i might be thinking of something else
13:01:21  <petern> there's a 2 in the works
13:01:24  <petern> but not released
13:01:50  <dihedral> i was thinking of bioforge
13:01:56  <dihedral> and system shock
13:01:57  <dihedral> :-P
13:02:06  <petern> i see
13:03:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15089 /trunk/ -Fix: make install not installing the AI directory and thus the AI libraries were missing in the debian builds.
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13:06:04  <petern> lol @ BT
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13:47:58  <Zuu> Hmm, according to the c&p discussion earlier, it seams like if you change player using the cheat dialog to an AI player, the AI is still running while you are playing also. So there you have the scripting for single player.
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13:49:26  <TrueBrain> Zuu: but .. a clear cheat ;)
13:50:00  <Zuu> Yes it is a cheat. And if it is possible but only as a cheat in SP I would say it is okay.
13:50:24  <Zuu> It don't ruin my game, only theirs.
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13:51:05  <TrueBrain> exactly :)
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14:24:15  <Belugas> hello
14:25:22  <TrueBrain> hi Belugas :)
14:25:24  <petern> 'elo
14:25:50  <petern> how's my grfid code? ;)
14:26:08  <TrueBrain> working very well :)
14:26:31  <Belugas> which? where?
14:26:33  <Belugas> ho... that...
14:26:42  <Belugas> menoum menoum menoum menoum menoum menoum menoum
14:27:50  * petern wonders if forum topic 41224 will get any more silly
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14:37:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15090 /trunk/ (12 files in 9 dirs): -Add [NoAI] [API CHANGE]: info.nut/library.nut now requires a function GetShortName(), which should return a 4 (four) character string, unique throughout the world. This id is simular to a GRFid.
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14:38:46  <Belugas> ho yes, it can get sillier... big time... we have some of ther best users for that :S
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14:45:53  <sexten> Hello. When people talk about the "station-walk-method" do they mean i.e. building a very long station and then removing the part in the middle? Or am I missing some key-combination or something?
14:47:06  <Belugas> building a little station piece, then adding another one in the direction, removing the first part and doing so up until you have two station apart, but having the same name and therefor been just one, on two locations
14:47:52  <sexten> Yeah, that's what I thought. Thank you:)
14:51:37  <tosse> is it only if they are the same size they will be joined into one and if you try to remove one section it will remove all of it?
14:53:25  <Belugas> same size does not matter.  tool matters
14:53:32  <Belugas> the prper tool for the proper task
14:53:58  <planetmaker> sexten: but in recent trunk it's not needed anymore.
14:54:04  <Belugas> dynamite is a wonderful tool, but buldozer is more precise :) try each and see the difference
14:54:23  <tosse> ahaaa
14:54:44  <planetmaker> you got the distant join functionality and can build directly with space between parts
14:55:02  <sexten> I see
14:56:18  <Belugas> so... you have the laziness option, or the workaholic one...
14:57:13  <planetmaker> hehe :)
14:57:33  <tosse> another thing, if i want PBS, i need a nightly right?
14:57:41  <planetmaker> but within (bigger) towns the distant join option is invaluable.
14:58:12  <Yexo> tosse: yes
14:58:22  <planetmaker> also it allows you to do that with less popularity loss in the town's council
14:58:39  <planetmaker> tosse: there's nothing wrong with nightlies - on the contrary :)
14:58:53  <planetmaker> more fun for the same price :P
14:58:57  <tosse> :)
14:59:09  <tosse> if i started a map on 0.6.3 can i load it in a nightly?
14:59:14  <planetmaker> yes
14:59:19  <planetmaker> but not vice versa
14:59:29  <Yexo> you'll be able to continue that map in 0.7 though
14:59:31  <tosse> no, of course :)
14:59:44  <Belugas>  is not so obvious for everyone ;)
15:00:32  <Gekz> people should be deaded
15:00:40  <tosse> and, if i create a map in the scenario editor, can new industries appear in those too? or is that something you have to set up in the editor as well?
15:01:26  <Yexo> you can do both
15:01:29  <planetmaker> depends upon what settings you choose.
15:01:37  <Yexo> you can set them up in the scenario editor, but new ones will appear during the game
15:03:57  <Belugas> scenario editor is quite static, apart the trees
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15:43:29  <petern> frosch123 :D
15:43:43  <frosch123> :p
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15:47:41  <petern> frosch123, in fact, if i do the first of your figures, it does show the same
15:50:09  <frosch123> are you trying to tell me, that coupled engines run at same speed?
15:50:56  <petern> from a power point of view, yes
15:51:11  <petern> the chart does not take any resistive forces into account, which would prevent that
15:53:39  <petern> power just affects acceleration rate. gravity, air, rolling and static friction restrict top speed.
15:55:16  <petern> and the rotational limits of the motor/engines in use, of course
15:55:41  <petern> gearing gets around that but introduce yet more resistance
15:56:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15091 /trunk/ (8 files in 7 dirs):
15:56:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI] [API CHANGE]: introduce GetCategory() as a requirement for every
15:56:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: library.nut, to indicate in which category it belongs. Currently the directory
15:56:22  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indicates the category, but this doesn't allow planned future additions
15:56:29  <petern> hmm, did anyone ever reverse engineer the dos music files?
15:56:39  <petern> (not the cat container, the music itself)
15:58:37  <frosch123> orudge is always messing with music
15:59:02  <petern> yes, but he's always messing with putting in a replacement mixer which ignores the old stuff :p
16:01:27  <SpComb> hmm, music
16:02:59  <petern> calls them PAT files, but...
16:04:05  <frosch123> pat sounds like pattern
16:04:33  <frosch123> however, gm dir is about 1MB, is 420KB
16:05:32  <Belugas> ...cold...  temp should drop to -33 this afternoon
16:08:17  <frosch123> Belugas: Enjoy the unrealisticness of "realistic acceleration", maybe that can keep you warm :p
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16:09:03  <Belugas> hehe
16:09:07  <petern> :D
16:09:17  <Belugas> if it runs the cpu faster, no problem :D
16:09:26  <Belugas> faster -> more heat...
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16:09:52  <frosch123> ah, you can also install gentoo without binary packages
16:10:20  <Belugas> at work?  naaaaa
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16:41:16  <orudge> [15:56:03] <petern> hmm, did anyone ever reverse engineer the dos music files? <-- somebody did, yes, but I can't remember who. Possibly it was that Chris Becke guy.
16:41:46  <orudge> ah, yes, so it would seem
16:44:37  <petern> so he didn't
16:44:44  <petern> or it's on another page
16:44:54  <petern> saying it's a "PAT" file isn't really reverse engineering...
16:46:21  <orudge> well, quite
16:46:51  <orudge> People have in the past either managed to convert those files, or possibly they just re-recorded the MIDI through an MPU-401 interface or something
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16:53:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15092 /trunk/bin/ai/library/queue/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Fix [NoAI]: make the library internal class name consistant with their directory name
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17:00:59  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15093 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_station.cpp: -Fix [NoAI]: check if a tile is valid before using IsTileType (bug found by Zuu, patch by Yexo)
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17:30:56  <Belugas> that ip range ban discussion is soooo boring
17:31:20  <SpComb> let's talk about network code instead, then
17:31:51  <goodger> or how best to have my hair cut to conceal my male pattern baldness :P
17:32:16  <SpComb> that's hardly relevant to OpenTTD :(
17:32:58  <goodger> yeah, but it's a lot more interesting
17:33:02  <SpComb> lies
17:33:10  <goodger> "male pattern baldness at 18 years old?" etc.
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17:33:52  <Belugas> any time will do
17:34:15  * SpComb pondered about having his hair cut just now
17:34:34  <SpComb> haven't been to a barbers' for... over three years now
17:34:45  <goodger> yeah, but I thought it usually had the decency to wait until the late 30s
17:35:44  <Belugas> it's genetic
17:35:59  <goodger> hm#
17:36:05  <Belugas> i'm way older than 30s (alas) and i still have all my hair
17:36:10  <goodger> my father's 57 and he has the same hair as me :S
17:36:20  <goodger> but he was grey at 35
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17:37:43  * Belugas sympathizes
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17:37:59  <goodger> thank you
17:38:09  <goodger> good afternoon, vraa
17:38:18  <vraa> good morning goodger
17:38:22  <vraa> still before noon here :)
17:38:28  <goodger> ah
17:38:48  <goodger> ah, yes, texas
17:38:49  <Belugas> just got past noon 39minutes ago ^_^
17:38:54  <goodger> I get used to EST
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17:42:17  <goodger> thanks to vraa, I have reduced my friend-whiteness level to 96.55%
17:42:55  <goodger> so I'm beating the county average [99.0% white population]
17:43:30  <vraa> :)
17:43:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you have friends?
17:43:49  <frosch123> why is mb posting screenshots in french?
17:44:10  <goodger> Eddi|zuHause: I was just counting my facebook friends. the concept of friends is less rigid outside of the world of boolean logic
17:44:15  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: nobody fully understands the ways of the master
17:44:22  <goodger> heh
17:45:19  <goodger> I took a US SAT test last night
17:45:39  <goodger> it was infuriating, I got about half way through and then accidentally hit "refresh" on the scoresheet popup
17:47:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea what that means
17:47:54  <Belugas> yeah... in french... strange.. i'd expected at least in german...
17:48:20  <Eddi|zuHause> but i do remember that he has done such things in the past, too
17:48:21  <Belugas> master?  ho... come on...
17:49:21  <Aali> hmm
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17:50:22  <Aali> grf presets are saved with '\' as path separator on windows, while just about every other system expects '/', could this be changed to be consistent no matter where you saved it?
17:55:30  <petern> huh?
17:56:15  <goodger> eh?
17:56:23  <petern> wah?
17:56:28  <goodger> queh?
17:56:33  <petern> queeg?
17:56:38  <goodger> hm?
17:57:18  <goodger> no queeging, that doesn't count as a request for clarification
17:58:05  <Aali> I moved a windows .cfg file to a linux install, and all grfs in subdirs disappeared from all my presets
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17:58:33  <Aali> sure, it was easy to fix but its still not nice
17:58:50  <Belugas> prrrrrt
17:59:37  <Belugas> the fact that windows  requires path separators to be \ does not strike you as a good reason for that?
18:00:00  <Belugas> it wold actually mean parsing the presets and change them back to the os specifics
18:00:03  <Belugas> come on...
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18:00:43  <petern> i guess that's doable
18:00:43  <petern> but i cba ;)
18:00:50  <glx> Aali: grf are stored with full path IIRC
18:00:55  <petern> doesn't stop someone writing a clean patch :D
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18:01:00  <petern> glx, relative to data, no?
18:01:11  <glx> not always
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18:02:55  <Aali> ah, and that would break anyway, obviously
18:03:43  <petern> absolute, yeah
18:03:59  <petern> shouldn't be too hard to switch \ to / or vice versa though, really
18:04:28  <Aali> I'll just work the sed magic for now :P
18:05:09  <petern> not up to the task of writing a patch? :(
18:07:31  <Belugas> hehe
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18:11:37  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15094 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Feature: Add support for IP range bans using CIDR notation.
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18:15:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15095 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs):
18:15:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI]: allow AI Libraries to be in .tar files (subdir required, as with AIs
18:15:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Add [NoAI]: allow multiple versions of the same AI co-exist
18:15:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: updated the whole method of AI (Library) finding and loading; it is now much more clear and transparent
18:15:26  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: the name of the AI is now the name used by CreateInstance()
18:15:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Change [NoAI]: make the AI finder a bit more clever, mostly related to version finding
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18:25:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15096 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_scanner.cpp ai_scanner.hpp):
18:25:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: free memory when no longer needed
18:25:01  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Fix [NoAI]: when there are multiple versions of one AI, never randonly pick an older one, but always the latest
18:26:50  <Belugas> mmh... i can imagine someone will come in his pants, now... wrt r15094
18:27:38  <petern> probably
18:28:02  <petern> or complain it doesn't support some other format
18:29:02  <Belugas> :)
18:31:20  <petern> i did love their suggestions though
18:32:03  <petern> absolutely no clue what it would've achieved... very little i suppose
18:32:30  <goodger> :S
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18:34:09  <Belugas> God Only knows... admin stuff... go figure
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18:54:19  <nicfer> one question, would be possible to run a openttd client in a framebuffer?
18:54:54  <petern> it would be pretty hard not to
18:55:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r15097 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:55:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-15 18:47:56
18:55:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 8 fixed by tucalipe (8)
18:55:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 4 fixed, 1 changed by beruic (5)
18:55:30  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: dutch - 6 fixed by habell (6)
18:55:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 76 fixed by WhiteRabbit (76)
18:55:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: french - 7 fixed, 1 changed by glx (8)
18:55:33  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15098 /trunk/ -Fix [FS#2535]: MinGW's find didn't remove the .svn directories during bundling as we told it to, so we're using a slightly different approach that seems to work
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19:04:18  <Progman> "Now in the GUI on your AI [...]" where is this gui?
19:04:45  <Yexo> Progman: it's wip
19:05:16  <Progman> hmm, and how do I change the settings for an ai (instead of changing the code of the ai itself)?
19:05:34  <Yexo> in the config file
19:06:05  <Yexo> under [ai_players]
19:06:41  <Progman> there are several "none =" lines
19:07:04  <Yexo> say you want to configure admiralai, replace one line with: "admiralai = start_date=3,use_busses=0"
19:07:20  <Yexo> the first line is the first company (usually you), so you'll want to replace the second line
19:07:21  <Progman> aah, thanks
19:07:37  <Yexo> start_date is the time in days after the last AI that it'll start
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19:35:30  <angelo> what does the 'autoreplace all vehicles in the depot" do?
19:35:45  <angelo> button
19:36:45  <frosch123> it applies the autoreplace rules to all vehicles inside the depot
19:37:23  <frosch123> it does also autorenew though if they are old enough
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19:38:24  <Wolf01> hello
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19:56:25  <SpComb> hmm... there's a `hg identify` command that should work well for
19:56:32  <SpComb> it's presumeably faster than hg status
19:57:36  <petern> $ time hg status
19:57:36  <petern> real    0m0.159s
19:57:42  <petern> $ time hg identify
19:57:42  <petern> cfaa538f9df7 tip
19:57:42  <petern> real    0m0.386s
19:57:46  <el_en> SpComb: btw, "Click the timestamp/nick to view the line in it's context" has one apostrophe too many.
20:00:18  <SpComb> petern: it also does a hg log, hg parents, etc
20:00:39  <petern> seems not to
20:01:02  <petern> as that "cfaa..." was the only line from it
20:02:01  <SpComb> I mean
20:02:17  <petern> uh huh
20:02:23  * SpComb is trying to do mercurial version autodetection in a cmake build script, and failing
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20:14:43  <nicfer> with running openttd on a framebuffer I meant to run it on linux without a x server
20:16:08  <petern> fbcon, then
20:16:42  <petern> "frame buffer" is rather generic and extends to any sort of buffer holding a frame... which any raster graphics device has to do...
20:17:27  <petern> SDL might be capable of using fbcon if you invoke it with the correct parameters, or bits installed.
20:17:34  <petern> you might need to be root though
20:20:12  <nicfer> root to run openttd?
20:20:51  <petern> to let it fiddle with fbcon, yeah. i don't know though
20:20:53  <OwenS> To access the framebuffer
20:24:40  <Belugas> hehe... have not seen that peter closed the more than 8 players bug.  no wonder i cold not find it...
20:24:50  <Belugas> well... one task less to work on...
20:25:05  <nicfer> wouldn't be risky to run openttd as root?
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20:25:43  <OwenS> Yes, but you will have to do it if your fbcon parameters are tight (Which is normally a Good Thing (tm))
20:26:13  <Belugas> what are the risks involved? (jsut wondering_
20:26:38  <OwenS> Can steal your FB from X, which can probably horribly confuse it considering X's fragility
20:27:18  <Belugas> ha.. ok... was expecting something like intrusion or such
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20:27:33  * Belugas is a total nulitty when it comes to linux world
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20:28:24  <OwenS> X has some really silly stuff also
20:28:35  <OwenS> Like PCI remapping support (For sucky kernels which can't do it themselves?)
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20:29:03  <edeca> Well it runs on more than one OS, so that's the quickest hack ;)
20:29:15  <edeca> Rather than argue with 3 different sets of kernel hackers who all have their own bibles
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20:29:39  <OwenS> Why isn't the kernel remapping the hardware properly in the first place? It's a piece of cake!
20:30:04  <OwenS> Just find some free address space and start doling out address mappings
20:30:07  <edeca> Heh :)
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20:30:51  <OwenS> It's much easier to do that in the kernel which has access to the address map (From the BIOS, OpenFirmware, EFI, GRUB, Das Uboot, compiled in, etc)
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20:32:02  <edeca> I agree with you!  But imagine selling that to some developers ;)
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20:33:14  <petern> i miss dga :(
20:34:07  <edeca> dga?
20:34:23  <petern> x11 extension
20:34:50  <petern> allowed for extremely fast device access, but needed root
20:35:06  <petern> it also allowed x to switch to 8bpp
20:35:08  <OwenS> I'm gonna celebrate when they finally decide that DRI was a crappy idea and that nVIDIA were right to ignore it
20:35:50  * edeca hates getting nvidia to work with twinview
20:36:01  <petern> hmm
20:36:09  <edeca> I've got 2 different size screens, which buggers up everything usually
20:36:14  <petern> only nvidia *does* twinview
20:36:49  <edeca> Yea, exactly.
20:36:58  <OwenS> I use Twinview also :)
20:36:59  <edeca> Because 2 different screens doesn't work nicely with xinerama or other solutions
20:37:08  <edeca> (in my experience, I'm sure it's possible)
20:37:16  <OwenS> On two different sized screens
20:37:45  <OwenS> I have a 19" 1280x1024 which I do useful stuff on, and an old 15" 1024x768 which I stick XChat and Kopete on :p
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20:38:45  <edeca> Heh, I've got a huge widescreen thing that I mostly have to look cool with compiz and a little 19" for working on
20:38:50  <petern> xinerama seems to work nicely for me
20:39:14  <OwenS> Compiz? Bleh. KWin4's effects are good enough :p
20:39:21  <edeca> OwenS: I haven't compiled that yet :)
20:39:27  <OwenS> Compiled? Gentoo?!
20:39:38  <edeca> My gentoo/paludis build is completely buggered due to 3 years of neglect
20:39:43  <OwenS> heh lol
20:39:47  <OwenS> Gentoo is basically dying it seems =(
20:39:55  <Zuu> My problem with twinview in Linux though is to get my wacom to work in twinview too. So the wacom pad represents the space of both screens.
20:39:57  <OwenS> Which is disappointing, cause they have excelent howtos :p
20:40:28  <edeca> OwenS: It's a great idea, but a lot of overhead.
20:40:35  <edeca> OwenS: And portage *sucks*
20:40:42  <OwenS> apt-get ftw
20:40:46  <edeca> Yeah, I love aptitude
20:40:59  * edeca has super-cow powers
20:41:25  <OwenS> My first Linux distro (...that worked...) was Debian, stable no less, in an era of Ubuntu. Go figure
20:41:36  <OwenS> This was just after Sarge was released of course, but still
20:41:51  <edeca> Mm, I quite like ubuntu but it has its own problems
20:42:05  <OwenS> I'm now using Ubuntu 8.10 and cursing it's broken Bluetooth
20:42:45  <edeca> Yeah, 8.10 broke loads of hardware (gfx & audio in my experience)
20:43:25  <OwenS> The dist-upgrade, even from an 8.04 with the KDE4.1 repositories and other cruft, worked fine for me, but Bluetooth is broken cause BlueZ 3 doesn't work with the kernel and KDEBluetooth doesn't work with BlueZ 4
20:44:38  <edeca> Ooh, squirrel, whassat.
20:44:39  * edeca looks
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20:44:45  <OwenS> Programming language?
20:44:51  <Terkhen> good evening
20:44:55  <edeca> And a new patches GUI possibly?  All these changes in a few days, I can't keep up :)
20:45:01  <edeca> Hi Terkhen, cheese?
20:45:22  <Terkhen> what kind of cheese?
20:45:36  <edeca> Whatever type you like!
20:46:43  <Terkhen> a slice of gorgonzola, then
20:48:03  <edeca> Good choice.
20:57:49  <edeca> Oooh, shiny new patch GUI!
20:57:55  <edeca> That's really nice
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20:59:35  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15099 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_map.cpp: -Fix (r15078): GetTileIndex(0, -1) is perfectly fine
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21:08:07  <Aali> nice
21:08:26  <Aali> funny side-effect/bug/cheat in cargodest
21:08:59  <Aali> you can have a vehicle "loading" at a station to increase your rating and not really have it load anything, ever
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21:11:30  <Yexo> it's that the same in trunk? Just make a iron-ore train full load at a station where there'll never be any iron ore
21:11:48  <Yexo> hmm, that doesn't work :(
21:12:13  <frosch123> you would need a rating for every destination in cargodest :)
21:12:43  <Aali> or change the rating system to only count vehicles that are actually loading something
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21:13:55  <Aali> actually, I guess you could make it depend on the vehicles orders
21:14:19  <Aali> no unloading order at a station that accepts the cargo = no rating increase
21:18:44  <edeca> So then you just add another order with a station it can't even get to?
21:19:28  <Aali> it will still load
21:19:37  <Aali> and then you have to unload or sell it
21:20:24  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15100 /trunk/src/ai/ (ai_instance.cpp api/ai_map.hpp api/ai_map.hpp.sq): -Add [NoAI]: introduce TILE_INVALID as const
21:22:11  <dihedral> hello TB
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21:38:04  * edeca suggests adding src/3rdparty/* to .hgignore
21:38:20  <edeca> And similar to .gitignore too, probably
21:38:33  <Aali> err
21:38:49  <Aali> hg automatically ignores nested hg repos
21:39:00  <Belugas> nice... now i need to take care of amex commercial cards :(
21:39:01  <edeca> Ar, I didn't check it out :)
21:39:10  <edeca> I'll clone it into there instead
21:39:52  <edeca> Aali: Thanks
21:40:17  <Aali> don't thank me, I didn't implement that feature :P
21:41:28  <edeca> So *that's* why they do those stupid safety demos:
21:42:48  <Aali> talk about bad luck, both engines trashed by birds
21:44:16  <edeca> Yeah, can't win them all :)
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22:24:07  <Wolf01> there's any dev (or good at coding) not busy who want to help me?
22:25:43  <Wolf01> I'm trying to understand how to draw a sloped track under the stations instead of the plain track
22:26:10  <Aali> is the track not part of the station sprite?
22:26:18  <Aali> or is that just some grfs?
22:26:45  <Wolf01> looking at this:
22:26:46  <Wolf01> 			image += GetCustomStationGroundRelocation(statspec, st, ti->tile);
22:26:47  <Wolf01> 			image += custom_ground_offset;
22:27:10  <Wolf01> seem the track and the stations are 2 different sprites
22:27:30  <Wolf01> but I'm very not familiar with drawing code
22:27:30  <petern> you will need to add to the spec to handle sloped tiles
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22:46:55  * SpComb managed to make cmake do what he wants it to do
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23:00:21  <SmatZ> midnight... again....
23:00:42  <TinoDidriksen> Has a tendency to occur every day. Blasted thing.
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23:03:18  <SmatZ> :-(
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23:10:33  <Wolf01> ok, last try, then I'll go sleep
23:11:01  <SmatZ> good night, Wolf01
23:11:56  <Wolf01> if only it doesn't take 15 minutes to link the objects -.-
23:12:12  <SmatZ> huh
23:12:21  <Rubidium> 1) don't build MSVC release builds when you don't need the speed
23:12:45  <Rubidium> 2) use gcc if you want the linking to go faster, compiling goes slightly slower though
23:13:32  <Wolf01> I always forgot that debug doesn't make the exe, and when I want the  speed I always forgot to switch back to debug :P
23:19:45  <Wolf01> ok, I managed to change the ground sprite
23:21:22  <dihedral> ✖ wide awake  ✔ really tired
23:21:26  <dihedral> good night
23:22:24  <SmatZ> good night, dihedral! nice UTF-8 art!
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23:32:07  <petern> debug doesn't make an exe? i must be doing it wrong...
23:33:20  <SmatZ>
23:39:31  <Wolf01> no, my MSVC has become stupid, I must have touched something for another project and since that it doesn't make .exe anymore on debug for every project
23:45:02  <Wolf01> OK! now I have sloped roadstops with the right graphics
23:45:43  <Wolf01> works like a charm
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23:47:24  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
23:48:12  * Wolf01
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23:51:09  <glx> works but looks strange
23:51:31  <Wolf01> rivers look strange too without grf
23:51:56  <glx> but they are not on the road ;)
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23:52:59  <Wolf01> uhm, I missed a check for the road bay :P
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