Log for #openttd on 26th January 2009:
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00:12:20  <rtypo> #
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00:45:43  <flikkflakk> can someone tell me why my friend get all those black textures?
00:45:43  <flikkflakk>
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00:48:28  <FauxFaux> Looks like blitter fail to me.. wait, is that 9x?
00:48:56  <Aali> no thats opengfx
00:49:16  <Aali> just uninstall it and the original TTD graphics will come back
00:49:28  <Aali> assuming you had those before
00:49:57  <flikkflakk> it's strange, cause I just .rar'ed my ttd and sent it to him, I don't have any problems
00:50:40  <flikkflakk> he is using winxp, I'm on vista
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01:04:15  <SpComb> blit blit blit
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01:14:31  <kd5pbo> Hey folks.
01:14:57  <kd5pbo> I managed to build the latest nightly, but I can't join a lan game.
01:15:22  <kd5pbo> I can't even find it.
01:15:57  <kd5pbo> The server is running the latest nightly.
01:16:38  <kd5pbo> The interesting part is where the version should go it says norev000
01:18:09  <Eddi|zuHause2> that means you did not use svn
01:18:40  *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause
01:18:48  <kd5pbo> No, I did not.
01:18:50  <kd5pbo> Nor did he.
01:19:02  <kd5pbo> We're both using r15269
01:19:18  <Eddi|zuHause> ./configure --help
01:19:39  <Eddi|zuHause> tells what you can do to override the norev000
01:19:53  <kd5pbo> Would that cause me to not see his game?
01:20:06  <RS-SM> hmm
01:20:15  <kd5pbo> Using what I built from trunk, I could see it, but I had a version mismatch.
01:20:32  <RS-SM> anyway, odd question, are there any ngrfs with new boats? and what are you compling for?
01:21:10  <kd5pbo> No ngrfs, opensolaris
01:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, look on grfcrawler
01:21:41  <kd5pbo> Oh.
01:21:47  <kd5pbo> I'm not using any, I mean.
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01:22:29  <kd5pbo> Now I can't see him in the trunk build
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06:22:56  <dihedral> morning
06:25:02  <Rubidium> it's already morning?
06:26:36  <dihedral> yes
06:26:42  <dihedral> and i am already at work
06:26:51  <dihedral> have been for like half an hour already
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06:30:03  <goodger> dihedral: you have truly appalling work hours
06:31:18  <dihedral> goodger: i dont consider flexy-time to be very appalling!
06:31:47  <goodger> dihedral: very well
06:31:57  <dihedral> i choose to start early
06:32:00  <dihedral> then i get home early
06:32:04  <goodger> if my hours were specifically 7am onward, I'd go mad
06:32:27  <dihedral> they are not, i can pick whatever i like - i can choose every morning
06:32:41  <goodger> of course, as an employer, I'm planning to eliminate totally the idea of hours
06:32:41  <dihedral> i cannot be late :-D
06:33:00  <goodger> good for you
06:33:57  <goodger> you never told me what you actually do
06:34:01  <dihedral> goodger: do you have any employees at all? :-P
06:34:11  <dihedral> trainee to soft-dev
06:34:18  * Rubidium wonders what's the benefit of starting early, going home early, going to bed early etc.
06:34:21  <goodger> dihedral: no, hence "I'm planning to"
06:34:50  <dihedral> Rubidium, i get to spend more precious time with friends in the evening, which i cannot do if i come home late
06:34:55  <goodger> Rubidium: maximised exposure to sunlight
06:35:28  <Rubidium> but you have to go to bed earlier
06:35:45  <goodger> yeah, but you go to bed in the dark
06:35:46  <Rubidium> so the effective length of your evening's the same
06:35:57  <goodger> ah
06:36:04  <goodger> yes, this is true
06:36:25  <dihedral> Rubidium, the length of my evning is, yes - but what if my friends have to go to bed early too?
06:36:36  <dihedral> if their job is more time dependent than mine?
06:36:43  <goodger> do they?
06:36:46  <dihedral> yep
06:36:52  <goodger> why?
06:37:11  <dihedral> some of them work in a kitchen (commercially kinda)
06:37:23  <goodger> ah
06:38:05  <goodger> in that situation one can not successfully do things such as eliminating totally the idea of hours
06:38:11  <goodger> unfortunate
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06:40:43  <dihedral> well, but i can plan my ours around the time of my friends hours, which will lengthen the time i can spend with them in an evening
06:43:16  <goodger> woo
06:43:53  <goodger> I currently do not have any of that type of friend
06:44:02  <goodger> I am going to make an effort to make some
06:44:52  * dihedral gives goodger a temporary hug
06:45:16  <goodger> you needn't draw attention to my patheticness ¬.¬
06:45:19  <goodger> thanks nonetheless
06:45:31  <Forked> I think you drew that yourself =p
06:45:46  <goodger> quiet, you
06:46:06  <goodger> damn all my friends for going to university
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06:56:00  <goodger> well, I shall be moving to university in september
07:00:34  <dihedral> i hate university, sorry - rephrase: i get annoyed with the majority of students
07:00:41  <goodger> ah. yes
07:00:49  <dihedral> esp. the oxford and cambridge students
07:00:58  <dihedral> esp if they are like com-sci's
07:01:18  <goodger> I'm going to cambridge to study computer science, actually
07:01:26  <dihedral> and think they know a bunch - get to be rep's of the it side of things
07:01:31  <goodger> what's wrong with that?
07:02:03  <dihedral> i worked at an it-department in oxford of one of the colleges (actually a few more colleges)
07:02:21  <dihedral> some students are pretty full of themselves and have like no clue whatsoever
07:02:35  <goodger> I'm making it up. my dream of going to cambridge was smashed aged twelve
07:02:55  <dihedral> cambridge does nothing but produce a bunch of snobs
07:02:58  <goodger> yeah, the students there tend to be elitist bastards
07:03:12  <goodger> but it remains one of the world's best universities
07:03:18  <dihedral> there were 3 or 4 students i met in 2 years who really knew their stuff
07:03:24  <dihedral> 2 of which were chemists
07:03:39  <dihedral> (their it stuff i mean
07:03:40  <dihedral> )
07:04:36  <dihedral> 2 guys i met were reall idiots, trying to change how things in the IT office were done
07:04:52  <dihedral> pretty nasty
07:05:16  <goodger> what positions did they hold in said office?
07:05:30  <dihedral> one of them was computer-rep
07:06:08  <dihedral> the other was actually asked to do some stuff with us, but we quickly changed our mind about that
07:06:32  <goodger> I see
07:06:39  <dihedral> sometimes it was quite amusing....
07:07:53  <dihedral> like students were expected to live outside college for one year of their studies and said rep tried to get a room for the third year, trying to bargin his way into it, but saying he'd do another year of rep if the college gave him a room
07:08:05  <dihedral> very easy to decide :-D
07:08:06  <goodger> heh
07:08:09  <goodger> that's quite pathetic
07:08:13  <dihedral> yep
07:08:22  <dihedral> and he did not expect people saying no that quickly :-D
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07:09:51  <goodger> indeed
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07:09:56  <goodger> well
07:10:16  <goodger> people at cambridge may tend to have ideas above their station during their placement years
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07:11:50  <goodger> I'm going to the university of kent, the number 40 university in the UK, to study at their reportedly overfunded business school
07:11:56  <dihedral> yes - but if they don't run it by the people in charge properly and in a decent manner they should not expect too much in response :-P
07:12:04  <goodger> true
07:12:30  <goodger> taking it all the way to PhD level if possible. unless I can go to a better university for my master's and phd having got a first at bachelor level
07:12:46  <goodger> but I'd like to stay in canterbury anyway, it's a lovely city
07:13:04  <goodger> and I promise not to alienate anyone on my placement year :)
07:13:10  <goodger> no. wait
07:13:16  <goodger> no placement year will be undertaken
07:13:58  <dihedral> :-P
07:14:19  <goodger> I shall opt out of the placement year to bring me back into line with my friends
07:14:41  <goodger> I don't particularly see the value in moving to yet another city for a year of low-wage menial work anyway
07:15:18  <dihedral> you gonna get a student loan?
07:15:36  <goodger> well, yeah, the interest rates are pathetically small
07:15:45  <goodger> it makes no financial sense _not_ to take the loan
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07:18:17  * Forked was just looking at what it would cost a month to get a loan for a house..
07:18:28  <Forked> we can't get a mansion :\
07:19:16  <Rubidium> that depends (hopefully) on the kind of mansion you want
07:19:38  <goodger> well, I'm planning to stay in university residence for my entire career there, by exploiting a loophole in the special-needs programme
07:20:29  <goodger> Forked: mortgages are what is known technically as "dirt cheap" atm, so I suggest you get yourself a fixed-rate within the next year :P
07:20:33  <Forked> actually we can get more than I thought .. so in other words we should be more than fine on the montly stuff and still afford the much needed beer :)
07:20:51  <goodger> unless you live in the US, where the recession will last a little while longer
07:20:53  <goodger> excellent
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08:00:32  <petern> goodger, not quite
08:00:43  <petern> mortgages are dirt cheap IF you have a large deposit to put down
08:01:19  <petern> and even then you're still talking around 3 or 4%
08:01:56  <goodger> unpleasant
08:02:02  <goodger> well, I'm off to college
08:02:13  <petern> first time buyers get 6 to 7%
08:02:18  <goodger> good day, qualified people!
08:02:26  <petern> qualified? haha
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08:02:46  <goodger> surely you have a degree?
08:02:55  <goodger> or at least A-levels
08:03:02  <goodger> in both cases you're more qualified than me
08:03:08  <goodger> byee
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08:05:01  <petern> nope
08:11:36  <thingwath> mwaha, degree
08:12:51  <dihedral> :-P
08:12:51  * Forked orders one online
08:12:53  <thingwath> that reminds me that I should take a formal languages exam -- right now. :-(
08:12:56  <Forked> woho I have a degree
08:13:06  <Forked> from Madeup University
08:14:41  <Sacro> I have an advanced programming exam in just over an hour
08:14:42  <thingwath> and what about Masaryk university?
08:17:03  <Sacro> I am at Hull
08:17:19  <thingwath> oh, great, I still have one try left
08:17:24  <thingwath> no need to worry
08:17:30  <thingwath> *gulp*
08:19:50  <Sacro> hmm, need more caffiene
08:20:17  <thingwath> context free languages ftw.
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08:37:13  <Roest> mrng
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09:13:29  <petern> hehheh
09:13:53  <petern> "can a pyament be made from an if (orderShipCostSub >= 500)
09:13:53  <petern> {
09:13:53  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingAmount = 15.25m;
09:13:53  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingMethod = "Over <b>&pound;500.00</b>";
09:13:53  <petern> }
09:13:56  <petern> else if (orderShipCostSub >= 250)
09:13:58  <petern> {
09:14:01  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingAmount = 10.50m;
09:14:03  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingMethod = "Between <b>&pound;250.00</b> and <b>&pound;500.00</b>";
09:14:06  <petern> }
09:14:09  <petern> else if (orderShipCostSub >= 100)
09:14:11  <petern> {
09:14:14  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingAmount = 8.75m;
09:14:16  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingMethod = "Between <b>&pound;100.00</b> and <b>&pound;250.00</b>";
09:14:19  <petern> }
09:14:22  <petern> else
09:14:24  <petern> {
09:14:27  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingAmount = 5.99m;
09:14:29  <petern> currentOrder.ShippingMethod = "Under <b>&pound;100.00</b>";
09:14:32  <petern> wtf
09:14:34  <petern> irssi fail ?
09:14:37  <petern> :/
09:14:47  <dihedral> switch?
09:14:49  <Roest> what language is that
09:16:56  <thingwath> some pseudocode?
09:19:09  <petern> unfortunately not
09:19:23  <petern> it was a mispaste :p
09:19:33  <petern> irssi didn't give me the ctrl-k thing :/
09:22:19  <planetmaker> good morning
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09:50:52  <DASPRiD> dihedral, oh here you be! :x
09:50:59  <DASPRiD> pm morning :)
09:51:25  <planetmaker> hey DASPRiD :)
09:51:42  <planetmaker> why do I always have the feeling of shouting at you? :P
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09:52:32  <Roest> he's deaf?
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09:53:33  <dihedral> pm: only need to shout his name -1 char :-D
09:53:46  <DASPRiD> pm no idea
09:54:06  <DASPRiD> dihedral, ;)
09:54:12  <planetmaker> hehe :)
09:55:48  <DASPRiD> dihedral, btw, a switch-statement doesnt work for >= cases ;)
09:56:16  <Rubidium> divide the number by 250 and you can make it a switch
09:56:28  <DASPRiD> uh?
09:56:49  <Rubidium> hmm.. or not
09:56:49  <DASPRiD> tell me how ;)
09:56:52  <DASPRiD> hehe
09:57:05  <Rubidium> it's still too early and I'm missing lines
09:57:05  <DASPRiD> well actually you could do:
09:57:25  <Roest> 500 cases and fall through would do it lol
09:57:31  <DASPRiD> switch (true) { case orderShipCostSub >= 250: /* code here */ break; /* etc etc */ }
09:58:12  <petern> you think that would work?
09:58:18  <DASPRiD> i know it works
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09:58:39  <DASPRiD> at least i'm 100% certain in php and 95% certain in C++
09:58:51  <Rubidium> switch (orderShipCost < 250 ? (orderShipCost >= 100) : ((orderShipCost / 250) + 1)) {
09:59:12  <DASPRiD> o.0
09:59:22  <petern> php allows that? crazy
09:59:30  <Roest> that works in c++?
09:59:38  * Roest reads c++ primer again
09:59:40  <DASPRiD> im pretty sure
09:59:43  <petern> Roest: DASPRiD's won't
09:59:52  <DASPRiD> petern, not in C++?
10:00:02  <petern> no
10:00:05  <DASPRiD> well good then that i was only 95% certain :)
10:00:08  <Roest> well i'm sure it doesnt, but he seems so confident
10:00:13  <DASPRiD> hmm
10:00:18  <DASPRiD> lets quickly test it :)
10:02:24  <Roest> yea no crazy compares at case labels
10:02:38  <DASPRiD> yeah
10:03:07  <Roest> and show me the php code before i believe that :)
10:03:30  <DASPRiD> ?
10:03:54  *** renea [] has quit [Quit: Some folks are wise, and some otherwise.]
10:04:07  <DASPRiD> <?php switch (true) { case (1 + 1 == 2): echo 'mkay...'; break; } ?>
10:05:05  <Roest> interesting, never saw that and did quite some extensive php programming a year ago
10:06:14  <DASPRiD> lol petern you were wrong
10:06:17  <DASPRiD> it even works in c++
10:06:30  <Rubidium> DASPRiD: your example works
10:06:41  <Rubidium> but *only* because it's evaluated at compile time
10:06:48  <DASPRiD>
10:06:54  <DASPRiD> Rubidium, sure?
10:07:07  <DASPRiD> lemme try with with variables
10:07:09  <Rubidium> DASPRiD: yes
10:07:18  <Rubidium> as it otherwise results in a nice: error: case label does not reduce to an integer constant
10:07:25  <Roest> hmm ok for php it's even documented
10:07:37  <DASPRiD> Roest, hehe
10:08:19  <DASPRiD> Rubidium, you are right
10:08:21  <DASPRiD> :(
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10:09:34  <Roest> hmm actually it isnt documented but in a user comment
10:09:57  <Rubidium> Roest: it's written down, thus it's documented
10:10:11  <DASPRiD> Roest, tho the first user example is quite useless
10:10:22  <DASPRiD> redcore should hafve used fall-through cases
10:11:59  <worldemar> hmm... cases are integers
10:12:26  <DASPRiD> in C(++)
10:12:29  <dihedral> have a function that returnes a constant
10:12:51  <dihedral> :-P
10:12:53  <DASPRiD> dihedral, an if-struct to match a switch? :>
10:12:58  <dihedral> hihi
10:13:04  <petern>
10:13:10  <petern> ^ "nice" use of cases
10:13:21  <DASPRiD> lol o.0
10:13:35  <worldemar> >_<
10:14:05  <Roest> *to++ = *from++;
10:14:10  <Roest> gives me headaches
10:15:28  <petern> wonder if that works in php...
10:15:36  <petern> probably not
10:16:51  <DASPRiD> Roest, talking about headaches:
10:16:56  <dihedral> you could bit-shift it and then return the max bit set and do your switch case on that :-P
10:16:58  <DASPRiD> i was lazy in my holidays :)
10:17:04  <DASPRiD> petern, doesnt
10:17:23  <DASPRiD> Roest, that code works in c++ and php :)
10:17:53  <Roest> i'm happy enough my php times are over and at least for the next two years i wont have to touch it
10:18:25  <dihedral> hehe
10:18:34  <dihedral> i can fully understand you Roest
10:18:45  <dihedral> _having_ to dev in php is a pain (at least for me)
10:18:49  <DASPRiD> dihedral, you don't like the code? :p
10:18:53  <DASPRiD> (the pasted one)
10:18:54  <dihedral> however, being able to if i want to is ok
10:19:06  *** Mortal [~mortal@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:19:44  <petern> "trick" code like that isn't very useful...
10:20:03  <DASPRiD> petern, there s no real sense behind such code
10:20:14  <Roest> my last php job was a employee and project management thing and to top that i had to run in IE6
10:20:16  <DASPRiD> there is code like that btw which runs in 8 different languages
10:20:23  <Roest> it*
10:20:35  <DASPRiD> Roest, php has absolutely nothing to do with IE6 or any other browser :)
10:20:40  <DASPRiD> that is HTML/CSS/JS
10:21:28  <Roest> of course though i'm sure u know what i mean
10:21:30  <petern> php being short for "personal home page"
10:21:32  <petern> originally
10:21:40  <DASPRiD> petern, yeah, prior to php 3
10:21:53  <Progman> php form interpreter ;)
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10:33:51  <Sacro> sigh, that exam sucked balls
10:38:29  *** dihedral is now known as polyhedral
10:39:12  *** polyhedral is now known as tetrahedral
10:39:35  <Roest> boredral?
10:40:10  <smeding> infinihedral \m/
10:40:31  *** tetrahedral is now known as dihedral
10:41:59  <dihedral> releasing nicks
10:42:57  <DASPRiD> dehidriert \o/
10:43:30  <dihedral> it's with a y
10:43:52  <Rubidium> dyhedral?
10:43:52  <DASPRiD> ? :x
10:44:16  <dihedral> dehydriert
10:44:23  <DASPRiD> ah ya correct
10:44:27  <dihedral> lol Rubidium
10:44:29  <DASPRiD> dehydrated
10:44:30  <dihedral> thanks a bunch :-P
10:45:01  <DASPRiD> ?
10:46:13  <dihedral> i know the meaning of the word!
10:46:23  <DASPRiD> ah good :x
10:46:47  <DASPRiD> so you are a polygon?
10:47:35  * worldemar searches for vertexes in dihedral
10:48:07  <dihedral> ...
10:48:20  <DASPRiD> i bet you'll find lot's of vertex collisions
10:48:58  <dihedral> dihedral angle is what describes the angle most commonly between the wings on planes (the angle between surfaces)
10:49:28  <dihedral> military jets have a negative dihedral angle, which is called an 'anhedral' angle
10:50:07  *** DASPRiD is now known as anhedral
10:50:16  *** anhedral is now known as DASPRiD
10:50:24  <dihedral> just dont get on my nerves DASPRiD
10:50:45  <DASPRiD> ;)
10:51:57  <worldemar> dihedral: didn't knew about angle on wings
10:52:32  <dihedral>
10:52:44  <dihedral> adds stability to the aircraft
10:52:48  <dihedral> a 'self' stability
10:52:55  <dihedral> passenger planes always have a dihedral angle
10:53:10  <dihedral> makes the aircraft less responsive, but very stable
10:53:22  <dihedral> anhedral angles are very responsive, however very unstable
10:53:49  <dihedral> hence the f14 requires the bord computer(s) to jitter the flaps constantly to stabalise the aircraft
10:54:19  <dihedral> no pilot could fly that thing if the responsible computers fail
10:54:58  <edeca> Same as the eurofighter then.
10:55:30  <dihedral> yes, and those planes are very very responsive
10:55:38  <dihedral> can make quick sharp turns also
10:56:22  <edeca> If I remember right, the eurofighter will actually ignore any input from the pilot which would make it unstable
10:56:24  <petern> the price of maneuverability
10:56:44  <dihedral> and those bord computers are crazy, as they have to not just do the calculations to stabalise the aircraft with jittering the flaps, they also have to accept the pilots stick-action into that, to stear the aircraft as controlled by the pilot
10:57:43  <edeca> Heh, I wouldn't trust the eurofighter.  A guy I went to uni with who practically failed electronics got a job soldering together circuit boards for it ;)
10:57:44  * petern sighs
10:57:55  * edeca thanks goodness for safety checks
10:58:02  <edeca> petern: Sighs? :(
10:58:15  <petern> failing electronics at university is a totally different kettle of fish to soldering
10:58:25  <dihedral> aye
10:58:38  <edeca> petern: Well, soldering was about as far as our introductory electronics went.
10:58:50  <petern> odd
10:58:58  <edeca> They gave you a board, 6 components and a pre-compiled program to flash onto the MCU
10:59:07  <petern> introductory electronics starts with theory
10:59:11  <petern> not soldering
10:59:41  <petern> things like what a resistor does
10:59:41  <edeca> Well it was a common first year.  I studied networking, we did very basic electronics (what is a resistor), very basic FPGA stuff, very basic microcontroller stuff
11:00:03  <edeca> To the point that most people didn't ever progress to working out what a microcontroller did
11:00:09  <petern> P=VI, etc
11:00:34  <petern> maybe studies really are shit these days
11:00:53  <edeca> Heh.  We did it in 2 halves, the theory (few hours a week with an exam) and practical (one hour every few weeks if I remember right)
11:00:55  <petern> i suppose learning about computers is just learning how to use ms word, these days...
11:01:08  <edeca> And it was basically nothing more than a maplin flashing light kit :)
11:01:24  <edeca> But hell, you get out of it what you put in.  I spent a few weeks building a micro board to play with
11:01:28  <Roest> i studied comp science and we didnt learn about computers
11:01:36  <edeca> You can't expect them to teach you *everything*
11:02:46  <edeca> Most people just wanted to be spoon fed a CCNA because they thought it was "cool"
11:02:57  <dihedral> lol
11:02:59  <dihedral> loosers
11:03:16  <DASPRiD> :(
11:03:26  <petern> Roest: what did you learn?
11:03:43  <edeca> petern: What did *you* study? :)
11:03:55  <petern> electronics engineering
11:04:07  <dihedral> are you implying, that you studied but did not learn anything, edeca? :-P
11:04:09  <Forked> CCNA makes you the coffee boy
11:04:21  <edeca> Forked: Yeah heh.
11:04:43  <dihedral> MSCE allows you to clean the toilets... ah - no! they just re-flush until it's clean and waste a bunch of water!
11:04:43  <edeca> dihedral: Nah, I'm implying that passing all my exams was important, but all the other stuff I learned was probably *more* important
11:04:53  <petern> incidentally, i failed it :p
11:04:58  <edeca> dihedral: And all that stuff wasn't spoon fed to me
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11:05:12  <dihedral> spoon fed sucks
11:05:27  <dihedral> you just repeat what others teach you, and dont really 'know' for yourself
11:05:45  <dihedral> "pawpaw said i am not allowed to do that"
11:05:49  <edeca> dihedral: But that's what university is about so much of the time :(
11:05:57  <dihedral> good to those milk-drinkers
11:06:47  <edeca> Heh it's fine.  I'm sure half of them graduated as cable pullers.
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11:12:51  <DASPRiD> "<dihedral> are you implying, that you studied but did not learn anything, edeca? :-P" <-- isn't that the default case? ;P
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11:21:47  <edeca> DASPRiD: For most people, yep.
11:21:58  <edeca> But like I said, you get out of it what you put in.
11:22:40  *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen
11:24:33  <TinoDidriksen> University is about getting a scientific spirit; learning methods for seeking information and doing research without needing assistance. Critical thinking. Not so much about raw learning of facts...
11:24:53  <edeca> TinoDidriksen: Without assistance? :O
11:24:54  * edeca giggles
11:25:22  <TinoDidriksen> I's gone down hill the past decade.
11:26:13  <TinoDidriksen> These days university is more a glorified high school.
11:27:22  <TinoDidriksen> Students have no will to read beyond what they are absolutely required to pass, no interest in furthering their field of study.
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11:43:49  <Elukka> o/
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11:46:12  <Sacro> TinoDidriksen: sigh, don't i know it
11:52:15  <edeca> Sacro: Are you a student or lecturer though?
11:52:35  <edeca> Sacro: The fix as a student is easy, just ace the exams with the minimum of work and study hard for the stuff that interests you or will get you a job :)
11:53:11  <Elukka> i think i'll go read up on making 32bpp graphics... and see how far i get before losing motivation
11:56:18  <edeca> </irony>
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11:58:18  <Elukka> hmm... has the list of 32bpp sprites that are done/claimed/not done disappeared off the wiki?
11:58:39  <Elukka> ...nevermind
12:03:42  <petern> you can produce whatever you like
12:04:47  <petern> nobody seems to quite be capable of creating a complete set
12:04:55  <petern> or merging what there is into one set
12:04:59  <Elukka> i doubt i'll be capable of making one workable sprite
12:07:22  <Elukka> i wonder if someone has made a better obj or whatever exporter for sketchup than the one i have...
12:08:08  <petern> it can export to png
12:08:09  <petern> but
12:08:14  <petern> that's not much use
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12:11:28  <Elukka> i can export it to kerkythea for rendering, but it could be hard to get the render to the specs defined
12:15:33  <Elukka> i seem to remember some repository of materials for use as textures...
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12:19:11  <petern> ah, you're still stuck on this rendering idea :p
12:23:25  <Elukka> hey, buildings are easy to make in sketchup
12:23:28  <Elukka> easier than drawing them
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12:32:33  <Elukka> hmm
12:32:40  <Elukka> as it turns out, real truck depots look like boxes
12:34:01  <edeca> Well yeah, things aren't always quite so exciting in real life.
12:34:19  <Elukka> its not very exciting in ttd either :P
12:34:30  <edeca> My train station looks a bit like four concrete blocks next to a road :)
12:35:22  <Elukka> so was there a texture/material stockpile hidden deep in the wiki or forums or is my memory faulty?
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13:09:23  <Elukka>
13:09:27  <Elukka> i made a really quick.. this
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13:42:10  <petern> Elukka, now scale it down to size :D
13:42:48  *** Swallow [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
13:43:56  <Elukka> it is!
13:44:07  <Elukka> assuming i read it correctly and a square is 12,5 m
13:44:11  <Elukka> well, yeah, the picture isnt
13:44:37  <Sacro> edeca: student
13:44:52  <petern> hmm, Dell E228WFP for £120...
13:45:05  <petern> Elukka, ignore that, none of the game is to scale
13:45:59  <Elukka> i thought by scale you meant "something that actually works in the game"
13:47:56  <petern> well
13:48:06  <petern> stick to the 'scale' of the original graphics
13:48:20  <petern> scales, i suppose :p
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13:52:11  <Elukka> yeah
13:53:14  <Elukka> i can do the modeling, but the lighting, rendering and viewpoint i know nothing about
13:53:22  <Elukka> not to even mention actually getting it in-game and working
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13:57:29  <Elukka> ow
13:57:41  <Elukka> those half tile passenger wagons look ugly on modern trains
13:57:49  <Elukka> somehow its more noticeable with the 32bpp graphics
13:57:58  <petern> it's not
13:58:14  <petern> it's noticable when people try to draw them zoomed in
13:59:32  * Sacro is watching benders game in 1080p with dutch subtitles
13:59:44  <Elukka> i just think it looks ugly when a HST or something has coaches half its length
14:00:25  <Elukka> hopefully someone will make a trainset with longer modern wagons
14:00:31  <Elukka> that's something far beyond my skills
14:00:34  <petern> unlikely
14:00:37  <petern> the game engine does not support it
14:01:42  <DASPRiD> talking bout 1080p, does openttd support 2560x1600 resolution?
14:01:45  <Elukka> wait
14:01:49  <Elukka> i could swear some at least look longer
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14:02:14  <petern> DASPRiD: yes, but only in nightlies, not 0.6.3
14:02:24  <DASPRiD> ah, at least good to know :)
14:02:27  <glx> 0.6.3 can too if you recompile it
14:02:32  <petern> oh, true
14:02:36  <petern> then it's 0.6.3M? hehe
14:02:49  <DASPRiD> what's the highest resolution pre-0.6.3?
14:03:18  <Rubidium> 2048x1536 irc
14:03:26  <Sacro> DASPRiD: that's not HD :p
14:03:41  <petern> Elukka: there are no "non-zoom" 32bpp vehicles on the wiki, afaics
14:03:43  <DASPRiD> Sacro, no, its not high definition, its higher definition ;P
14:03:55  <Elukka> the modern wagons in us set look as long as the locomotives
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14:04:04  <Rubidium> hmm.. no 'only' 2048x1200
14:04:25  <petern> well
14:04:40  <petern> wagons & locomotives were always the same length in the original graphics, so that's nothing new
14:04:45  <Elukka> are the locomotives shorter or something?
14:04:46  <Elukka> oh
14:04:53  <DASPRiD> Rubidium, not x1280?
14:04:57  <DASPRiD> cause then it would be 16:10
14:05:10  <Elukka> so have they made the locomotives longer with the 32bpp graphics?
14:05:18  <petern> no
14:05:26  <Elukka> ok... why do they look a lot shorter?
14:05:34  <petern> some artists might have drawn them longer, but they won't work in game
14:06:50  <davis-> 32bpp is the stuff with the extra zoom level , right?
14:06:55  <petern> no
14:07:00  <davis-> meh
14:07:06  <petern> *sigh*
14:07:11  <davis-> haha excuse me
14:07:13  <Elukka> a lot of 32bpp seems to support it
14:07:20  <Elukka> but 32bpp does not mean the same thing as extra zoom
14:07:21  <petern> when will people learn that the only difference between 8bpp and 32bpp is colour depth...
14:07:37  <DASPRiD> petern, the average one? never ;)
14:07:37  <davis-> "[32bpp] Extra zoom levels, Updated V9 r15178"
14:07:43  <davis-> mistaken it cause of that
14:07:49  *** mikl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
14:08:12  <glx> well extra zoom level requires 32bpp blitter
14:08:15  <glx> that's all
14:08:46  <petern> yeah, that's one way of ensuring it'll never get added :D
14:08:58  <Elukka> what is?
14:09:38  <davis-> ^^
14:09:44  <glx> and 32bpp sprites drawn for this patch don't work in trunk, which is a shame
14:10:04  <glx> (because it changed filename format)
14:10:41  <davis-> maybe there'll be some solution , time will tell .. i guess
14:10:47  <Elukka> aww
14:10:56  <Elukka> why not have the extra zoom levels patch in trunk?
14:11:05  <glx> not needed
14:11:30  <Elukka> being able to zoom in really shows the detail
14:12:22  <davis-> not with pixel graphics :p
14:12:41  <Elukka> so have an on/off switch like with every other patch
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14:17:20  <Elukka> ...i totally should make a less eye-hurting snow sprite
14:21:20  <Belugas> so.. no more sunglasses required?
14:22:38  <Elukka> the only reason i dont use the snow in temperate grf is because its not comfortable for my eyes :D
14:22:47  <Elukka> (hi belugas, i like realism)
14:23:37  <dihedral> Elukka, wtf?
14:23:54  <Elukka> what
14:23:55  <petern> i like realism too!
14:24:03  <Elukka> well i got the idea someone doesnt! :P
14:24:08  <petern> (but not at the expense of gameplay)
14:24:18  <dihedral> just coming here to annoy the poor, overwhelmed with work, Belugas
14:24:31  <petern> Belugas needs a holiday
14:24:37  <dihedral> not half
14:24:47  <dihedral> and a lot of space from users
14:24:51  <petern> let's lobby his boss
14:24:55  <dihedral> :-P
14:25:27  * DASPRiD is happy with his work
14:26:18  * petern is happy with Belugas' work too
14:27:11  * dihedral is happy with the move patch :-)
14:28:29  * Elukka is overwhelmed with exams
14:28:33  * Elukka is procrastinating
14:31:01  * DASPRiD patches dihedral
14:31:02  <dihedral> Elukka is too chatty for my taste :-P
14:31:02  * dihedral is happy with his ignore list
14:31:28  <petern> i don't have one
14:31:32  * Elukka is sad because of dihedral's ignore list
14:31:35  <DASPRiD> dihedral, Elukka doesn't chat that much
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14:31:55  * DASPRiD pets elmex
14:31:57  <DASPRiD> * Elukka
14:32:06  <DASPRiD> sry auto-completion failure ;P
14:32:32  <Elukka> i tend not to ignore because then i miss out on parts of discussions and it gets messed up
14:33:15  <DASPRiD> Elukka, yeah i prefer the mental ignore-list
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14:39:57  <Belugas> quite...
14:40:11  <Belugas> me? overwhelmed?
14:40:13  <Belugas> naaaaaaa
14:40:28  <Gekz> you
14:40:30  <Gekz> overwhelmed
14:40:30  <Gekz> ja
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14:57:25  <Belugas> mh.. could very well be indeed
14:57:44  * Belugas is happy that petern is happy with self's job
14:57:55  * Belugas is happy with petern's job too
14:57:58  <Gekz> lol.
14:58:13  <petern> :D
14:58:17  <petern> i meant your openttd work, hehe
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15:10:39  <Belugas> well thank you :)
15:12:54  <Sacro> Belugas: oh no here comes an s :)
15:12:59  <Belugas> but regarding the fact i've not commited for a long time, it makes me doubt the validity of that affirmation :D
15:13:14  * Sacro has Belugas committed
15:13:52  <Rubidium> @commit 15172
15:13:52  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: Commit by belugas :: r15172 /trunk/src (newgrf_callbacks.h town_cmd.cpp) (2009-01-20 16:06:57 UTC)
15:13:54  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: -Feature: Allow a grf to customize house name via callback 0x14D, during Tile Inquiry process
15:14:00  <Rubidium> very long ago ;)
15:15:42  <petern> almost a week, heh
15:17:23  <DASPRiD> cd Belugas && svn up -r1
15:19:26  <Belugas> well... that was... pretty much nothing ;)
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16:01:51  <petern> dmesg
16:02:13  <petern> Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address ffffdfca
16:02:17  <petern> Process syslogd (pid: 179, stackpage=dfca9000)
16:02:19  <petern> handy :p
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16:25:13  <SpComb> what happaned to that OpenTTD + OpenGL thing?
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16:28:36  <Roest> while it's question hour, what happened to that custom airport branch?
16:31:03  <Rubidium> nothing
16:31:12  <davis-> wheres my pizza?
16:31:23  <Rubidium> in your stomach
16:31:26  <davis-> lies
16:31:31  <davis-> its in yours
16:32:52  <Roest> Rubidium: which question did you answer? :)
16:33:29  <Rubidium> the three I saw the last 10 minutes
16:33:46  <Rubidium> though by answering I've answered four
16:33:58  <davis-> that's quite a answering machine
16:35:15  <thingwath> "nothing" is the answer for every possible question that can ever be asked
16:35:43  <petern> thingwath: did you cross the road?
16:36:20  <wollollo> that is no question
16:36:22  <thingwath> well... that is not a real question
16:36:26  <Roest> thingwath: what color has the internet
16:36:31  <thingwath> Red.
16:36:47  <thingwath> Or blue.
16:36:49  <thingwath> Depends.
16:36:54  <petern> what will you do if i ban you?
16:37:04  <davis-> ^^
16:37:18  <thingwath> Oh. Yes. That is the question. The right one.
16:37:22  <thingwath> Nothing. :-/
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16:53:44  <angelo> does supplying coal to a power plant have any impact to the town's growth?
16:54:14  <petern> no
16:55:02  <angelo> ungrateful bastards
16:55:04  <angelo> !
16:55:07  <FauxFaux> Heh.
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16:55:34  <Rubidium> lets plant a coal powered power plant in angelo's home town and see if it'll grow
16:56:17  <angelo> if it didn't have electricity in the first place, it would grow!
16:56:43  <glx> let's implement a realistic effect on town's growth for power plants
16:57:02  <FauxFaux> I'd much rather use the power to run my trains.
16:57:06  <angelo> yes
16:57:09  <angelo> 1 coal = 1 person
16:57:22  <Rubidium> before 1950 increase, after 1950 no new houses within a 5 km radius?
16:57:27  <glx> 1 coal = 1 person less :)
16:57:34  <angelo> yeah that's after 1950
16:57:58  <Rubidium> where a tile is 12,5 meter
16:58:00  <angelo> they won't want power plants
16:58:26  <angelo> but they would neither let you destroy the supply
16:58:52  <kd5pbo|away> How about nuclear power?
16:58:55  *** kd5pbo|away is now known as kd5pbo
16:59:18  <Rubidium> how about been there, got bored to death, continue?
16:59:19  <angelo> yeah
16:59:22  <angelo> with uranium mines
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17:01:13  <kd5pbo> Does anybody run servers based on the nightlies?
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17:11:55  <petern> 400 tiles *snigger*
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17:51:39  <fjb> Hello
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18:05:53  <Mark> Is there any database for savegames?
18:06:11  <Mark> (Want to find some saves to get some inspirations from)
18:06:32  <FauxFaux> The forums.
18:06:59  <Zuu> There is a savegames and scenarios forum.
18:07:18  <Zuu> Or was it scenarios and screenshots... hmm
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18:07:40  <Mark> Mkay, will check :)
18:07:51  <Wolf01> hello
18:08:20  <Mark> Yello
18:08:27  <Zuu> Hello Wolf01, your slow. Now that every one waits for your hello, be quick so we don't have to wait long. ;-p
18:08:53  <Wolf01> my slow?
18:09:02  <Mark> Zuu: It's "  Screenshots, Scenarios and Saved Games" :)
18:09:17  <Zuu> Wolf01: 30 seconds, that is a lot :-)
18:09:34  <Zuu> But i guess you had to type your identify message first. :)
18:10:13  <Wolf01> eh, I have to type "hello", I have to tidy the chat rooms, I have to greet in other channels
18:10:53  <Zuu> Wolf01: No ofence, just couldn't resist to joke a little.
18:11:53  <Zuu> Oh, and hello :-D
18:12:35  <Wolf01> :D
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18:55:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15276 /trunk/src/lang/ (10 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:55:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-01-26 18:54:43
18:55:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 changed by arnaullv (1)
18:55:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: croatian - 75 fixed by tifached (75)
18:55:21  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: czech - 22 fixed, 2 changed by Hadez (24)
18:55:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 10 fixed by glx (10)
18:55:22  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 4 fixed by Athaba (4)
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19:26:42  <Zuu> Hello, is there someone who has an opinion about widget focus behaviour in OpenTTD. Currently it doesn't really exist. But I have written a patch ( ) that adds widget focus and use it to send key input to focused edit box or else listen for hotkeys as usual. I am interested in opinions about the behavior. What widgets should be able to receive focus?
19:28:21  <Zuu> If an edit box is focused and I click on a button, should the button receive focus then? (so that you can use hotkeys instead of everything you type goes into the edit box) Or should only focus of edit boxes be de-activated when you click somwehere where there is no button or other widget?
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19:51:13  <Belugas> i guess it should behave exactly as on a regular OS
19:52:04  <Zuu> And in a regular OS you can't continue type after you pressed a button. At least that is my observation.
19:52:30  <Zuu> Though Rubidium told me that my patch acted strange for acting like that. :-)
19:54:38  <Belugas> so yes, typing on a box and clikcing on a button means the button (if not disbled) should receive focus
19:54:46  <Belugas> mmh... lag on answering :S
19:55:14  * Belugas has not tested said patch, but still watches over
19:55:51  <Belugas> in fact, it showed me a gui with still some hard coded wideget numbersw ^)^
19:56:00  <Belugas> spent lunch time on it
19:56:09  <Zuu> I might have forgot the disabled part of it (I have not tested that case or looked into the code what happens in that case). But else it works like you just said.
19:56:18  <Zuu> Yea, I saw your commit on that. :)
19:56:41  <Zuu> And have adopted my patch to use the constants you introduced.
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19:58:41  <Belugas> soo...  maybe it's just a matter of having eevryone's mind set onthe behaviour
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20:00:04  <frosch123> [20:54] <Belugas> i guess it should behave exactly as on a regular OS <- so like the traditional way of focusing the element under the mousepointer?
20:00:44  <Belugas> i guess it would be defined as it, wouldn't it?
20:01:44  <frosch123> well there is also the less traditional way, to focus it by clicking, and not unfocusing it by moving the mouse somewhere else
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20:03:35  <Belugas> right...
20:03:42  <Belugas> indeed
20:04:21  <Belugas> maybe there is a distinction to make over "HotTracking" and "Focusing"
20:04:45  *** Tim-itry [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:05:33  <Aali> like every OS out there you should probably add an option to disable/enable mouse focus (focus follows mouse pointer)
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20:06:04  <Prof_Frink> Aali: On some OSes that option is well hidden.
20:06:10  <Zuu> frosch123: I know of focus follow mouse, when it comes to focused window. (Which I use myself) but did your traditional way also include focusing of widgets inside a window by hovering over them?
20:06:37  <Aali> Prof_Frink: but it's there
20:06:43  * Belugas reads it as hot tracking
20:07:17  <Zuu> And too bad many windows applications, including visual studio is quite broken when it comes to focus follow mouse.
20:07:22  <frosch123> Zuu: yes, there is also that hard way, where you have to place the mouse exactly where you are typing, so you cannot read it anymore :)
20:08:06  <Aali> yeah, widget focus should not follow the mouse pointer
20:08:31  <Aali> windows should remember which widget had focus even when they lose focus though
20:09:26  <Zuu> Aali: They do :)
20:09:40  <Aali> good stuff
20:09:41  <Zuu> As each window has a focused_widget variable.
20:10:05  <Elukka> prof frink: i'm reading your lines in my head in frinks voice :/
20:10:13  <Zuu> And the title bar is imune against widget focus. So you can select a window by clicking on its title bar and the old focused widget will get global focus.
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20:23:11  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: Yexo * r15277 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_bridge.cpp: -Fix (r15027): Building bridges in AITestMode always returned false.
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20:43:42  <Zuu> About disabled widgets and the focus patch. When clicking on a disabled button, that button do not receive focus. (But clicking on the window where there is no widgets set focused_widget = 0 of that window)
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21:09:30  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15278 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_airport.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#2332]: test noise limit of nearest town instead of st->town
21:15:34  <UFO64> is there a way to get openttd to look for the data directory in specific folder, rather then burying it when you do a "make bundle"?
21:17:38  <Yexo> UFO64: it looks in ~/.openttd or "My Documents/OpenTTD", depending on your os
21:20:34  <Zuu> (Or ~/Documents/OpenTTD if you are on a Mac)
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21:23:05  <svip> Hehe, KritiK.  Nice nick.
21:23:05  <UFO64> thanks ^^
21:23:16  <KritiK> :)
21:23:32  <svip> UFO64:  Does your name imply that your unidentified flying object only has 64 bits?
21:23:45  <svip> KritiK:  "Kritik" means "criticism" in Danish, ;)
21:24:10  <UFO64> svip: saddly i got my mac right before the 64 bit jump =(
21:24:20  <Belugas> UserFightingOthers?
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21:24:35  <svip> UFO64: :(
21:24:43  <UFO64> its more of an aviation refence then anything sci-fi related
21:24:47  <svip> So you should be UFO32?
21:24:54  *** UFO64 is now known as UFO32
21:24:57  <svip> That's better.
21:25:03  * UFO32 sad face
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21:25:24  <svip> I, on the other hand, could easily be UFO16.
21:25:28  <UFO32> if i remember correctly, when i started useing the screen name, the nintendo 64 was all the rage
21:26:04  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:26:11  <UFO32> 8 bit microcontrollers for the win =D
21:26:17  <svip> :O OH yeah.
21:27:05  <UFO32> thats a low as i have ever gone
21:27:15  <UFO32> unless you count learning to make a 4 bit adder =/
21:27:28  <svip> Meh, who needs more than 4 bits?
21:28:03  <UFO32> anyone over the ager of 16?
21:28:06  <UFO32> age*
21:28:18  <UFO32> unsigned that is...
21:28:40  <svip> Unsigned age 16?
21:28:44  <svip> WOW
21:30:06  <fjb> -16 Years is early family planning. :-)
21:32:15  <Zuu> Good night guys
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21:52:52  <Sacro> Anyone: What size is a C++ float?
21:53:28  <Aali> 32 bits
21:53:32  <Belugas> 5
21:53:58  <Belugas> f=1, l=2, o=3, a=4, t=5
21:53:58  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: 18" square.
21:54:06  <Belugas> blaaaa...need to run home
21:54:09  <Belugas> buy!
21:54:12  <Belugas> bye!!
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21:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: 6, because of the 0
22:02:37  <SmatZ> gratz @ BBC + Sky
22:03:31  <Sacro> SmatZ: why?
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22:10:34  <SmatZ> Sacro: politics :)
22:12:32  <SmatZ> showing injured people from Gaza would in most people imply thoughts like "bad Izraelits hurt all those people!" (or even worse, "bad Jews"...)
22:12:43  <SmatZ> showing one side of the problem
22:14:31  <RS-SM> why can't israel be like the one I made
22:15:06  <SmatZ> RS-SM: in OTTD? :-) with complex railway network?
22:16:12  <RS-SM> yes
22:16:43  <RS-SM> then again, I started in 42
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22:27:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15279 /trunk/src/company_cmd.cpp: -Fix: deadlock (with wide fonts) or desync when generating manager name
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22:54:36  <el_en> english only to all
22:56:17  <Elukka> sleepy time
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23:33:35  <el_en> CAPS LOCK DAY?
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23:43:15  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15280 /trunk/src/newgrf_callbacks.h: -Cleanup: ancient and vastly out of date comment...
23:46:08  <Belugas> mmh? is there such a thing?
23:46:12  * Belugas rushed to see the logs
23:46:17  <Belugas> -d+s
23:46:56  <Belugas> heheh... of course of course :)

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