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00:01:24 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has joined #openttd 00:01:50 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: solution is easy, remove the bus and train service :p 00:02:06 <Zuu> :-) 00:02:51 <Elukka> so is there no way at all to get this scenario to work on other versions? 00:03:12 <Zuu> I shall keep that trick in mind to increase usage rate of roads, when I start work as a traffic planer when I have finished my studies. :-p 00:04:07 <Zuu> Elukka: Not without good knowledge about the savegame format and a hexeditor plus lot of time. 00:04:17 <Elukka> :/ 00:04:29 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:31 <Elukka> so basically its useless and i wasted a lot of effort 00:04:53 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: or the copy-paste patch might work ;) 00:04:56 <Zuu> You can play it on that specific cargodest devrsion. 00:05:02 <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: great idea :) 00:05:14 <Elukka> i wont be playing this particular revision forever 00:05:14 <Zuu> /dversion/version/ 00:05:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Zuu: pattern not found. 00:05:59 <Zuu> /devrsion/version/ 00:06:04 <Zuu> :-) 00:06:17 <Elukka> why does it save things particular to one version in the scenario file/save game? 00:06:47 <SmatZ> in what format should it save the game then? 00:07:13 <Rubidium> .docx? 00:07:17 <SmatZ> if you want 0.4.8 savegame format, create it in OTTD 0.4.8 :-p 00:07:19 <SmatZ> .xml ! 00:07:30 <Elukka> i mean, why is something that amounts to just a map with trees, terrain and buildings particular to any version? 00:07:36 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: backwards compatibility is only maintained for official releases and nightlies, not branches or inofficial builds 00:07:47 <Elukka> this doesnt have forwards compatibility either 00:08:04 <Elukka> i'm just confused as to why having cargodest matters 00:08:16 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want forward-compatible savegames, play TTDPatch 00:08:22 <Rubidium> cargodest adds a few settings to the game 00:08:53 <Zuu> Including changes to the savegame format 00:10:05 <Elukka> :/ 00:10:27 *** OwenS [~OwenS@host86-164-125-149.range86-164.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:00 <el_en> ah, Sternenteile is Star bits in english. 00:25:22 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-98-211-146-65.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 00:27:56 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28C971.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:28:19 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has joined #openttd 00:29:28 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:01 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77758.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:26 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B76D30.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:34:24 *** rortom [~rortom@5aca97e2.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 00:34:28 <rortom> hi all :D 00:35:39 <rortom> update > http://rigsofrods.blogspot.com/ :D 00:37:02 <Sacro> rortom: new version? 00:37:22 * Sacro has quad core and a 9800GTX+ in preperation 00:37:50 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 00:39:11 <rortom> very soon :) 00:39:21 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:39:24 <rortom> 1 - 2 weeks 00:39:29 <rortom> quad core is good 00:39:37 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 00:39:49 <rortom> thats the same machine i developed RoR with :p 00:39:54 <rortom> should work well :) 00:40:45 <Sacro> rortom: what new features? :D 00:40:52 * Sacro loves to break the pysics 00:40:55 <Sacro> *physics 00:41:09 <rortom> ~ 1 a4 page ... 00:42:01 <Rubidium> that doesn't say much about the amount of 'data' 00:42:18 <rortom> haha :p 00:42:25 <rortom> i knew that would come from you ;) 00:42:44 <rortom> let me search a changelog ... 00:44:27 <Sacro> hehe :) 00:45:16 <rortom> also, i saw some people publish code under creativecommons.org licenses 00:45:50 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has left #openttd [] 00:45:53 <rortom> very uncommon i guess 00:45:56 <Rubidium> trunk has ~8 major features, ~75 features and ~50 significant (for 0.6 users) bugfixes since the 0.6 release 00:46:07 <Rubidium> that's ofcourse speaking of OpenTTD 00:46:15 <rortom> wow, nice :D 00:46:34 <rortom> how you track those? flyspray? 00:47:21 <SmatZ> rortom: svn logs 00:47:43 <rortom> ah, thats what i am currently going through ... 00:48:05 <SmatZ> :) 00:48:50 <Rubidium> forgot to mention the 3000 commits ;) 00:49:35 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:50:04 <rortom> quite a bit ;) 00:50:32 <rortom> we are currently at 1873 00:50:48 <rortom> but we tend to merge well cooked features in a large commit 00:54:12 <Rubidium> rortom: you shouldn't say that you're going to release in X weeks as the chances are quite high you won't make it 00:54:43 <Rubidium> just release it when it's done and when people least expect it ;) 00:55:50 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: from __future__ import antigravity] 00:56:45 * Rubidium personally dislikes the concept of roadmaps too. It only makes people think a feature will be in and then they get disappointed when it doesn't make it 00:57:56 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485C3C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:59:58 <rortom> Rubidium: we are done with coding, we are just waiting for the content :) 01:01:00 *** frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba2bbd.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:01:08 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has joined #openttd 01:02:01 * Rubidium is happy we don't have to wait for the NewGRF authors 01:02:15 *** fjb [~frank@p5485E9AD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:02:28 <rortom> hehe ;) 01:08:32 <rortom> writing changelogs is no fun :\ 01:14:19 <glx> svn log does it 01:17:05 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:17:22 <rortom> http://ror1.pastebin.com/d85c4bc5 01:17:35 <rortom> svn logs contain too much info in our case ;) 01:23:20 <rortom> :\ 01:23:39 <rortom> just got my traffic warning, used 906 GB / 1TB this month. 01:24:39 <Sacro> ouch 01:25:51 <rortom> i am really glad we have some mirrors 01:26:20 <rortom> we couldnt do the 4234 GB all in all by ourself 01:26:24 *** rtypo [tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #openttd 01:26:49 <rortom> (btw, someone has spare traffic?) ;) 01:27:10 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 01:30:07 <rortom> btw, how much downloads does openttd have per months? 01:31:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 01:31:42 *** mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ 01:36:26 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-145-11.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:39:55 *** xahodo [~xahodo@xahodo.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: Goodbye.] 01:41:12 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.109.216] has joined #openttd 01:42:35 <SmatZ> rortom: http://www.openttd.org/en/stats :) 01:43:08 <rortom> searched that, thanks :) 01:46:07 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:50 *** rtypo [tux@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:00:07 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:02:30 <TinoDidriksen> rortom, spare traffic for what? 02:12:24 <Eddi|zuHause> why are there more win32 downloads than all other targets together? 02:13:06 <kd5pbo> There are more windows users? 02:13:17 <kd5pbo> Are there more Windows users? 02:13:22 <TinoDidriksen> Of course there are. 02:13:39 <Eddi|zuHause> more users there are windows? 02:15:05 <Sacro> legal windows 02:26:37 *** Elukka [~elukka.el@bb-89-166-45-150.dsl.phnet.fi] has quit [] 02:28:43 *** Netsplit synthon.oftc.net <-> charm.oftc.net quits: ecke, mikl 02:32:03 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:22 <fjb> Non windows users checkout from svn. :-) 02:43:06 *** TinoDid [~projectjj@62.199.74.86] has joined #openttd 02:43:43 <Sacro> I sometimes use svn, sometimes grab a tar.bz2 02:43:48 <Sacro> inw indwos and linux 02:49:28 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:02:57 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.109.216] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:10 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.105.143] has joined #openttd 03:08:30 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:25:19 *** xerxesdaphat [~tom@118-93-243-243.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #openttd 03:27:06 *** xerxesda1hat [~tom@118-92-214-154.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:31:37 *** angelo [~angelo@ppp-94-65-248-156.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:35:45 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:40:03 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #openttd 03:45:59 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 03:55:02 *** rortom [~rortom@5aca97e2.bb.sky.com] has quit [] 03:57:04 *** xerxesda1hat [~tom@118-93-246-106.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #openttd 03:57:41 *** xerxesdaphat [~tom@118-93-243-243.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:00:39 *** Zorn [zorn@e177226248.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 04:06:52 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Quit: Quit] 04:08:03 *** Zorni [zorn@e177230096.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:08:17 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-48.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 04:22:35 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 04:22:35 *** mikl [~mikl@0x57372ee2.mrbnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 04:22:44 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.105.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:29:24 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 04:38:08 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen 04:39:10 *** TinoDid [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 04:42:51 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-48.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 04:46:12 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@62.199.74.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:50:00 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 04:51:50 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:12:01 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest35 05:12:03 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:16:55 *** Guest35 [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:33:04 *** Vish [~vishalagr@d122-105-101-172.mas12.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd 05:33:14 <Vish> hi 05:33:23 <Vish> is there someone who can help me 05:33:56 <Aali> not unless you tell us what the problem is 05:34:49 <Vish> well i got openttd and it was working fine..... i was just fiddling with the resolutions and other settings..... 05:35:34 <Vish> so i must have maybe chosen a lower resolution or something so now the program is runnign witht the music and everything bu ti can see nothing 05:35:50 <Vish> no mouse pointer or anything....the screen is grey 05:36:12 <Vish> i uninstalled the program and reloaded it again but the same proble 05:36:31 <Aali> are you on windows? 05:36:38 <Vish> yeah on vista 05:36:57 <Aali> the config file is stored in your My Documents folder 05:37:25 <Aali> if you delete it, it should work again 05:37:30 <Vish> where would that be ? 05:37:58 <Aali> the My Documents folder or the config file? 05:38:27 <Vish> both 05:38:51 <Vish> oh man ... u are a genius... it works 05:39:08 <Aali> you found it? 05:39:12 <Vish> i found it and deleted openttd in my docs and now the program works 05:39:16 <Vish> thanks a lot 05:39:17 <Vish> i did 05:39:20 <Aali> right :) 05:39:37 <Vish> thank you so much bro 05:40:22 *** Vish [~vishalagr@d122-105-101-172.mas12.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] 06:22:28 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 07:12:25 * dihedral has traffic spare.... 07:12:30 <dihedral> like a few TB 07:12:31 <dihedral> :-D 07:21:46 <Eddi|zuHause> torrents were invented for such problems 07:36:57 *** grahamk [~graham@c-71-230-12-156.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 07:37:45 <grahamk> hello 07:39:25 <grahamk> I was trying to install openTTD through the package manager in ubuntu but received an error message telling me that I needed the original TTD game files. Is this the case? and if so how would I obtain the files? I dont think TTD has been produced for quite some time 07:39:53 <Aali> well, technically, you can use OpenGFX 07:39:57 <Aali> but its not finished 07:40:13 <Aali> so you're better off with the original graphics 07:40:33 <grahamk> is there anywhere i can get them? 07:40:49 <Aali> and well, if you look for them, you'll find them 07:41:10 <Eddi|zuHause> if you build it, he will come 07:44:10 <grahamk> hmmm... i think I might have found them :) 07:50:14 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E765.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:51:00 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CE06.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:53:22 <doc> I'm trying to set up suspended monorail. (to replace tram) but it always comes up as disabled. Anyone got any idea why? 07:53:28 <dihedral> is there no such info in ... say ... /usr/share/docs/openttd? 07:54:23 *** angelo [~angelo@ppp-94-65-248-156.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 07:56:03 <dihedral> doc: are you missing some grf's? 07:56:59 <doc> dihedral: I don't think I should be. I used the download online content interface 07:57:49 <dihedral> well, there surely is info in the forums or on the grf's webpage? 07:58:34 *** angelo [~angelo@ppp-94-65-248-156.home.otenet.gr] has quit [] 08:00:21 <Eddi|zuHause> suspended monorail is a tram replacement, sure you looked in the right place, and have the appropriate vehicles? 08:02:06 <doc> Eddi|zuHause: I used the 'check online content' part of the initial openttd menu 08:02:11 <doc> so if it's wrong, it's wrong there 08:02:59 <doc> and the only thing that's related is http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38413&sid=996a3ef77b70e0c5b4440df9884bae4d&start=20 which hasn't been updated since may 2007 08:03:03 <doc> same error 08:04:57 <dihedral> doc: it does not mean that all required dependencies are in the online content! 08:05:15 <dihedral> grfs can have dependencies to other grfs and some might come from different authors 08:05:30 <doc> and there's no dependency setup even for the ones you can download? 08:05:58 <dihedral> yes, but if the one author does not upload his stuff, then that's missing, and one cannot define a dependency to missing grfs 08:06:22 <dihedral> whats the name of the grf? 08:06:45 <doc> susmon.grf 08:06:54 <dihedral> in bananas!!!! 08:07:08 <doc> ? 08:07:34 <dihedral> bananas.opnettd.org 08:07:45 <dihedral> click on 'NewGRFs' 08:08:05 <doc> Urban Suspended Monorail 08:09:24 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@216-165-16-48.DYNAPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:09:31 <dihedral> do you have any other tram grfs loaded? and what year is it? 08:10:26 <doc> I've unloaded them, and I've tried everything from 1990 to 2200 08:10:41 <doc> and some in between 08:13:56 <dihedral> and the grf is loaded for your game 08:14:08 <doc> loaded but disabled 08:14:40 *** grahamk [~graham@c-71-230-12-156.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 08:15:49 <dihedral> and it sais why it's disabled 08:15:56 <dihedral> why dont you say that right away? 08:16:09 <dihedral> Fatal:Unexpected sprite. 08:17:12 <dihedral> perhaps you want to post that to the forum thread 08:17:36 <doc> I said I was getting the same error as the post 08:18:46 <dihedral> so? 08:18:55 <dihedral> just bump it, say that you are also getting it 08:19:19 <doc> so giving me hassle for not saying it is unfair 08:19:24 <dihedral> thought that it would had been fixed before it got uploaded to the bananas thingy 08:26:07 <dihedral> Rubidium, can you hide "Urban Suspended Monorail" from bananas? it's got an error and gets disabled (Fatal: Unexpected sprite.) 08:49:54 *** xerxesda1hat [~tom@118-93-246-106.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:52:18 *** xerxesdaphat [~tom@118-92-216-8.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has joined #openttd 09:08:55 *** TinoDid is now known as TinoDidriksen 09:13:00 <planetmaker> moin 09:13:35 <planetmaker> dihedral: if it stays the author has more incentive to fix it :P 09:14:11 <dihedral> if it's broken it should not be downloadable! 09:14:37 <planetmaker> why? 09:14:56 <dihedral> because it's broken? 09:15:01 <petern> heheh 09:15:03 <dihedral> and rises user questions 09:15:06 <petern> 118 * 91,. 0C "Sprites for autoroad GUI; no way " 09:15:06 <petern> ,... "to code them yet, included for potential " 09:15:06 <petern> ,... "future versions" 00 09:15:06 <petern> 119 sprites/susmon.pcx 258 792 09 13 20 0 4 09:15:41 <planetmaker> dihedral: why should broken things not be available? There might be people who want to fix it... 09:16:03 <dihedral> pm: via the content downloader? 09:16:10 <dihedral> seriously - that is really silly! 09:16:27 <dihedral> who does that? 09:16:27 <planetmaker> so is the proposal to play newgrf correctness police 09:16:49 <dihedral> pm: the proposal is to avoid user confusion! 09:16:52 <dihedral> wtf 09:16:55 <dihedral> c'mon 09:17:26 <dihedral> what the point would it be to download an osx update if it made your system unstable? 09:17:30 <planetmaker> I don't like to think for other people. And I don't want others to try for me 09:17:42 <dihedral> my word! 09:18:00 <dihedral> users will ask questions if they can download content via that feature and it does not work 09:18:08 <planetmaker> dihedral: exactly. So why stop people from doing nonsense, if they like 09:18:16 <dihedral> to avoid unnessesary stuff like that, you can hide them until they are fixed 09:18:23 <dihedral> besides, bananas is well watched anyway 09:18:30 <planetmaker> yes. they will. It's the grf author who needs to be directed to. 09:18:40 <dihedral> both 09:18:48 <dihedral> those who manage bananas and the author 09:19:05 <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: the aim is to reduce "support" effort 09:19:08 <dihedral> but those who download from bananas will most likely assume things they get from there work 09:19:18 <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: I understand that :) 09:19:27 <Eddi|zuHause> and repeatedly telling "it is broken, do not use" is extremely high and useless effort 09:19:30 <planetmaker> And I see the point in that. 09:19:39 <planetmaker> And still :) 09:19:45 <dihedral> then there is no 'and still' 09:19:52 <dihedral> they can fix it by getting it from the forums 09:20:15 <dihedral> those really interested in working on grf's dont get them from bananas 09:20:28 <dihedral> they just go 'bananas' trying to make the grf's :-D 09:20:31 <Rubidium> so contact the author directly instead of getting questions why it's missing from bananas 09:20:48 <Rubidium> after all... we don't guarantee anything works 09:21:00 <dihedral> right 09:22:11 <dihedral> so you are saying you dont maintain bananas? 09:22:35 <Rubidium> we're not going to fix everything that's broken and put up there 09:22:47 <dihedral> i did never say 'fix' 09:22:56 <dihedral> i said 'hide' so that others cannot download it 09:22:59 <Rubidium> removing it doesn't fix anything 09:23:06 <dihedral> (unless they know the id...) 09:23:31 <dihedral> Rubidium, it avoids 09:23:35 <Rubidium> and that's hard... 09:23:36 <dihedral> unnessesary questions 09:23:48 <Rubidium> heh, I've got this savegame and downloaded X and X doesn't work 09:23:59 <dihedral> happens less often 09:24:53 <dihedral> shame - i thought you were more interested in maintaining the downloadable content of bananas 09:25:18 <dihedral> maintain in a way that would cause less problems 09:25:52 <Rubidium> "cause less trouble" means fixing bugs ourselves 09:26:13 <Rubidium> hmm.. maybe we should remove opengfx and ecs too 09:26:17 <Rubidium> those got bugs too 09:26:17 <dihedral> that is not what i mean and you know that 09:26:18 <planetmaker> dih certainly is right that you could just disable broken content. 09:26:37 <planetmaker> but still, I think, it's rather a grf author's responsibility 09:26:54 <dihedral> Rubidium, bugs != gets disabled on load 09:26:55 <planetmaker> and maybe an annual or bi-annual check 09:27:07 <petern> hey 09:27:07 <Rubidium> I could disable broken stuff, but what is buggy and what isn't? 09:27:26 <petern> at least disabled on load fairly obviously won't cause game problems 09:27:46 <dihedral> Rubidium, Fatal: Unexpected sprite. and then being disabled - i consider that fairly useless, dont you? 09:27:47 <petern> say if LV4 was on there, would we have to disable it because of graphical clitches in tunnels? 09:28:13 <petern> bananas is about providing content, not providing working content :D 09:28:17 <dihedral> petern: it does not rise user support does it now 09:28:37 <petern> raise 09:28:43 <dihedral> thanks 09:34:50 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 09:42:16 <Tefad> up to 11 players? 09:42:24 <Tefad> wtf 11 09:44:41 <planetmaker> up to 255 09:45:07 <Eddi|zuHause> not in the latest release 09:45:36 <Tefad> the number 11 seems arbitrary to me 09:46:00 <planetmaker> read the code, understand network packet sizes and you'll understand :) 09:46:32 <planetmaker> in short: 11 players * player_info_size <= max_network_packet_size 09:46:42 <planetmaker> or something along those lines 09:51:59 <Tefad> yes but now it's 255? 09:52:14 <el_en> good morning, hobbits 09:54:33 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host114-234-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 09:54:38 <Wolf01> hello 09:56:53 <planetmaker> @calc 42*3.1415 09:56:54 <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 131.943 09:57:07 <planetmaker> I can make you a special edition with 131 max, Tefad :P 10:04:28 <Tefad> eh, try (exp(ln(2)*5)+exp(ln(2)*3)+2)*ln(-1)/sqrt(-1) instead. thanks. 10:05:40 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't see why it wouldn't do that, except for the periodicity(?) of complex ln 10:06:20 <Tefad> the answer to that isn't integral, but it is real 10:07:15 <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it is common knowledge that ln(-1) can be calculated via the "world formula": e^(i*pi)+1=0 10:07:34 <Eddi|zuHause> so the i's reduce themselves 10:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> but still, ln(-1) is not one single number, but infinitely many 10:08:19 <Eddi|zuHause> similarly, sqrt(-1) is two numbers 10:08:41 <Tefad> infintely many in the frequency domain but of zero magnitude 10:08:51 <Tefad> eh? 10:09:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i^2 = -1, (-i)^2 = -1, so sqrt(-1) = {i, -i} 10:09:44 <Tefad> depends on what i mean by sqrt() 10:09:51 <petern> just google it ;) 10:09:57 <Tefad> petern has the answer. 10:10:33 <Eddi|zuHause> similarly, e^(2*pi*i)=1, so ln(-1) = {(2*k+1)*pi*i | k \in |Z} 10:11:05 <Tefad> if anyone is familiar with the Unix bc command they'll know its exponent function only takes integral values, however its e-exponential function e() takes floating point 10:11:25 <Eddi|zuHause> so ln(-1)/sqrt(-1) = {(2*k+1)*pi | k \in |Z} 10:12:08 <Tefad> i learned to exploit this to get any power of any base i want via a ^ b = e(l(a)*b) 10:12:20 <Eddi|zuHause> that is basic maths... 10:12:24 <Tefad> yup. 10:12:41 <Eddi|zuHause> for certain definitions of "basic" :p 10:12:45 <Tefad> but it'd been a while and i had no reference material so i dicked around until i found it 10:12:58 <el_en> Integerish Only! 10:13:11 <Tefad> belonging to the integral domain 10:13:45 <Eddi|zuHause> nah... algebraic numbers are great fun ;) 10:14:36 <Tefad> †10:14:36 <Eddi|zuHause> then add e and pi as special constants, and you can express almost all relevant numbers 10:15:00 <Eddi|zuHause> and you are still in a countable subset of |C 10:16:41 <Eddi|zuHause> (Algebraic numbers are those numbers who can be represented as a root of a polynomial expression) 10:17:18 <Eddi|zuHause> as such, i is an algebraic number, because it is root of the polynomial expression x^2+1=0 10:18:16 <Eddi|zuHause> e and pi are not algebraic numbers 10:18:41 <Eddi|zuHause> they are called "transcendent" 10:19:57 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e180234023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 10:25:57 *** ccfreak2k [~ccfreak2k@ip-67-205-67-52.static.privatedns.com] has joined #openttd 10:28:48 <Tefad> transcendental functions 10:28:59 <Tefad> delicious functions.. 10:35:19 *** Yeggstry [~mind@cpc2-rdng14-0-0-cust631.winn.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 11:07:02 <dihedral> Tefad, client names used to be in one of the UDP packets 11:07:35 <dihedral> more than 11 clients would exceed packet size 11:07:44 <dihedral> this part of the udp packet has been removed in the mean time 11:08:00 <dihedral> remember wwottdgd events? 11:08:18 <dihedral> we would do 55 clients, but it meant that we had to disable that part in the udp code 11:08:42 <dihedral> else the game crashed - which was the painful experience for wwottdgd/1 11:22:13 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggs-away 11:26:33 *** PhoenixtheII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:47 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd 11:28:51 *** fawlty [angelo@ppp68-184.adsl.forthnet.gr] has quit [] 11:48:39 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:00:02 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28C971.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:13:45 *** Yeggs-away is now known as Yeggstry 12:28:48 *** Roest [~schurade@p54B9C5AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:30:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffe4a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 12:31:55 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:11 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 12:32:12 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 12:32:19 <Noldo> dihedral: you got that patch through then? 12:32:46 <dihedral> which one? 12:32:53 <dihedral> hae? 12:32:56 <Noldo> the more clients thing 12:33:05 <dihedral> more clients is not by me 12:33:29 <dihedral> i tried had issues 12:33:42 <dihedral> Rubidium did it 12:33:55 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:30 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:36:19 *** davis_ [~iloveme@p5B28F3FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 12:39:03 <el_en> http://www.spotify.com/blog/archives/2009/01/28/some-important-changes-to-the-spotify-music-catalogue/ 12:43:48 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28C971.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:48:47 <Gekz> spotify doesnt even WORK in Australia 12:48:47 <Gekz> so fuck that. 12:49:58 <el_en> well of course it doesn't, 'cause you're using it upside-down. 12:50:10 <Gekz> hilarious. 12:51:17 <dihedral> hihihi 12:53:28 <Gekz> Hey hey hey 13:03:15 *** Roest [~schurade@p54B9C5AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 13:04:41 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:37:28 *** Roest [~schurade@p54B9C5AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:39:30 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 13:41:35 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-60-139.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 13:42:27 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Quit: SHRIKEE] 13:43:04 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 13:44:36 *** Elukka [~elukka.el@bb-89-166-45-150.dsl.phnet.fi] has joined #openttd 13:44:44 <Elukka> ok, so, scenarios 13:44:56 <Elukka> to ensure compatibility with other versions (future trunk, really), what should i make them with? 13:45:02 <Elukka> the latest nightly, the stable version? 13:45:33 <Aali> newer versions always load older savegames 13:45:56 <Aali> older versions newer load newer savegames 13:46:02 <Aali> *never 13:46:33 <Rubidium> Aali: both are wrong 13:46:45 <Aali> sure, whatever 13:46:56 <Rubidium> newer stables load older stables 13:47:07 <Rubidium> that's all 13:47:45 <Rubidium> the rest is just wishfull thinking; yes most nightlies load previous nightlies, but not always 13:47:47 <Aali> that nay be all you can be sure of 13:47:52 <Aali> *may 13:49:07 <Elukka> so i should make them with the newest stable+ 13:49:11 <Elukka> ?* 13:50:23 <frosch123> make a heightmap :p 13:51:12 <Elukka> heightmap doesnt contain the rivers, lakes have to be fixed a lot, not to even mention cities, roads and industries 13:54:53 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.132.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:55:04 <Eddi|zuHause> it's really an oversight that heightmaps were not prepared for non-height information coded into the palette 13:55:06 <petern> if you wanted to use the 'freeform edges' feature you'd need to use a nightly 13:55:16 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, write a patch! 13:56:04 <dihedral> hehehe 13:56:11 <Eddi|zuHause> or, an .ini file with stuff like town locations 13:56:25 <Elukka> a version-proof format for scenarios would be really cool... 13:57:02 <dihedral> ... 13:57:03 <Rubidium> Elukka: use the TTD scenari editor 13:57:19 <petern> it can't be version proof 13:57:27 <Elukka> ok, reasonably version proof 13:57:46 <petern> it is 13:58:35 <Eddi|zuHause> is there an "export as heightmap" functionality in the scenario editor? 13:59:01 <dihedral> nope 13:59:34 <petern> Eddi|zuHause, write a patch! 13:59:45 <Elukka> i made a scenario yesterday, but because i made it with the cargodest branch i cant play it on any other version 13:59:52 <Elukka> even though cargodest doesnt do anything regarding scenarios 13:59:59 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:03 <Rubidium> Elukka: it does 14:00:07 <Elukka> it does? 14:00:13 <Rubidium> settings are part of the scenario 14:00:25 <Rubidium> and thus are the cargodest related settings 14:00:36 <Elukka> why? 14:00:46 <Eddi|zuHause> an alternate storage system was also discussed since the beginning of time... 14:00:54 <Eddi|zuHause> (for settings) 14:01:05 <Aali> a "scenario" is really just a savegame 14:01:48 <Eddi|zuHause> mainly, it would need to save (name,value) pairs 14:02:12 <Elukka> aali, i know 14:02:15 <Elukka> i just dont really understand why 14:02:32 <dihedral> you never will 14:02:33 <Rubidium> 2 save formats == twice the work 14:02:48 <Eddi|zuHause> if that were implemented, many savegame bumps (especially of inofficial patches) could be avoided 14:03:02 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.132.255] has joined #openttd 14:03:12 <Aali> Eddi|zuHause: what about when a setting changes name? 14:03:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: you are screwed 14:03:30 <Elukka> i can appreciat it would be more work 14:03:36 <Elukka> man, i suck at typing today 14:03:54 <dihedral> no... just "you suck" 14:03:56 <dihedral> :-P 14:03:59 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: if you want to introduce a conversion function, it will require a version bump 14:04:44 <Aali> so, basically you use the same system, just separate settings from the actual savegame? 14:05:11 <Elukka> it seems weird to save settings of patches in the scenario, because they dont really have anything to do with it 14:05:13 <Eddi|zuHause> no... you are reading stuff into it... 14:05:15 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: almost all settings that get added to the savegame change the savegame format slightly too, i.e. adding stuff that it didn't know about before. So loading that savegame in an older version must not be done, so the savegame bump doesn't matter anyways 14:05:28 <dihedral> Elukka, scenario = save game 14:05:38 <Elukka> i know this 14:05:47 <dihedral> now, assume you have a save game, where you alloed 90 degree turnes and you built according to that 14:05:55 <petern> please bear in mind it is possible to have a scenario that starts with competitors already set up... stations, vehicles, etc... 14:05:59 <petern> (i think, heh) 14:06:04 <Elukka> thing is, why is it the same thing? 14:06:19 <dihedral> and then you load that save game with previously having set 90 degre turns forbidden 14:06:21 <Elukka> there are no 90 degree turns or cargodest things in the scenario, they only apply when you start to play 14:06:45 <dihedral> no 14:06:48 <Elukka> i understand if you use something like the map edges patch 14:06:50 <dihedral> they apply to the save game 14:07:29 <dihedral> that in fact now only applies to map generation iirc 14:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> but there is an economy, even though there are no industries yet. the available cargos and cargo payment rates and other stuff have already been set up 14:07:39 <Aali> Elukka: a separate scenario format is alot of work, and no-one wants to do it, so unless you're going to write a patch and maintain it forever and ever you'll just have to learn to live with it :P 14:07:52 <Eddi|zuHause> this stuff, that generally happens at world generation, must be stored in the scenario 14:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> no matter if you actually used it or not 14:10:21 <petern> Eddi|zuHause: "varaction2 support for bridges" 14:10:43 <petern> should i rumble through my 'lost patches' directory? :p 14:10:51 <Eddi|zuHause> well... ;) 14:11:26 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 14:12:13 <dihedral> Rubidium, can authors disable their own grf's at bananas? 14:12:37 <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=761321#p761321 14:13:31 <Rubidium> yes; just set the works till version X correctly 14:13:52 <Rubidium> effectively disables them to be shown from newer version of OpenTTD 14:14:03 <Elukka> so the reason is that its a lot of work 14:14:06 <Elukka> thats a sensible reason 14:17:18 <Elukka> i might try another scenario, this time of just the great lakes 14:17:20 <Elukka> however, heightmaps 14:17:31 <Elukka> the srtm plugin in the guide doesnt work, so i have no idea where to get one 14:17:41 *** frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba7bab.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 14:17:42 <dihedral> can you not start a chat with /dev/null? 14:18:33 <Elukka> i'm wondering whether it's just me or if the service doesnt exist anymore 14:18:46 *** frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba7bab.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 14:19:00 <dihedral> it's you 14:19:18 <Eddi|zuHause> an rtfm plugin? where can i get one of those? 14:19:38 <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, requirest tracker? 14:20:06 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: next to the stfu plugin? 14:20:10 <dihedral> http://bestpractical.com/rtfm/ 14:21:28 <Elukka> dihedral, have you tried it? 14:22:06 <dihedral> worcester college of oxford university used to use it, i dont know if they still do 14:22:21 <frosch123> hmm, if something is buggy and inconsistent in ottd, and it is even more buggy and inconsistent in ttdp, should I then just set up my own interpretation of the newgrf specs... 14:23:00 <Eddi|zuHause> dihedral: honestly, that reads like an april's fools version :p 14:23:12 <dihedral> hehe, yes 14:23:17 <dihedral> but it's a serious thing 14:23:22 <dihedral> not so nice to work with 14:23:28 <dihedral> not so nice to set up 14:23:38 <dihedral> rt was a real pain up my fuzzy rear end 14:23:53 <dihedral> rtfm was not as simple as i had assumed either 14:24:34 <petern> frosch123: more inconsistent in ttdp? 14:24:55 <frosch123> yes, and more buggy 14:25:02 <Elukka> ...am i the only one here who deals with heightmaps? 14:25:23 <petern> are you on the engine id thing still? 14:25:39 <petern> possibly, Elukka, i've never loaded one 14:26:20 <frosch123> no, now I am on CB15, CB36 'capacity', 'use first refittable cargo as default cargo' and traditional capacity mulitpliers for refitting when not using cb15 14:26:54 <petern> ah 14:26:56 <frosch123> wrt. the engine id thingie, I guess it is all fine, the change should be documented for var60, and well varc6 was never documented 14:27:00 <dihedral> Elukka, why dont you just open threads in the forums 14:27:22 <Elukka> i feel worse pestering the forums than irc for some reason :P 14:27:28 <Elukka> i was meaning to post 14:28:06 <dihedral> dont you have a poisonous reptile you could play with? 14:28:36 <frosch123> they should use livery refit instead of var c6 if they want reliable behaviour :p 14:28:42 <Elukka> nah, it's not poisonous and it's sleeping 14:28:46 <Elukka> (i do have a reptile) 14:28:59 <dihedral> then talk to that thing instead! 14:29:05 <Elukka> i cant interrupt his sleep! 14:29:16 *** frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba7bab.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 14:29:42 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 14:29:45 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 14:29:54 <Rubidium> that sounds really improbably 14:30:02 *** frederyk [~frank@brln-4dba7bab.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [] 14:30:07 <Rubidium> s/y$/e/ 14:30:51 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CE06.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:16 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CE06.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 14:31:19 <Rubidium> putting it on a flat surface and hitting it with a frying pan should interrupt its sleep 14:31:57 <Gekz> Rubidium: bastard. 14:31:58 <Gekz> lol 14:32:10 <dihedral> Rubidium, i'd rather but Elukka on a flat surface and hit him with a frying pan 14:32:29 <Elukka> that wouldn't be very nice 14:32:57 <dihedral> none of my last 10 lines were very nice 14:33:03 <dihedral> have you piked up on that yet 14:33:17 <dihedral> ok 4 lines 14:33:20 <dihedral> whatever 14:33:58 <Elukka> http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z113/Elucca/what.jpg?t=1233412432 14:34:02 <Elukka> fear, for i will send this after you 14:34:39 <Gekz> aww thats cute 14:34:41 <Roest> cool 14:34:50 <Gekz> iguana? 14:34:54 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e180234023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:35:02 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e180234023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:35:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i thought frying pans are for handling orcs? 14:35:09 <Elukka> green water dragon 14:35:14 <Elukka> smaller than iguanas 14:35:16 <Eddi|zuHause> were? 14:35:27 <Elukka> he doesn't like water that much... 14:35:32 <Eddi|zuHause> english grammar is difficult 14:35:50 <Elukka> try finnish 14:36:03 <Gekz> Elukka: that's cool 14:36:05 <Gekz> what country? 14:36:17 <Eddi|zuHause> try cleaning out the terrarium, i don't think that boots and plastic bags are supposed to be in there 14:36:18 <Elukka> what country what 14:36:28 <Gekz> the lizard is from 14:36:28 <Gekz> and you 14:36:49 <Elukka> naturally they live in southeastern asia, although this one is from sweden and i'm from finland 14:36:54 <Rubidium> Elukka: tihiaiti iisi jiuisiti aididiiinigi ii'si eivieiriyiwihieiriei... ;) 14:37:11 <Gekz> weird 14:37:13 <Gekz> anyway 14:37:15 <Gekz> sleepy time 14:37:19 <Elukka> nights 14:37:21 <Eddi|zuHause> you forgot the ÀÀÀs ;) 14:37:34 <Gekz> haha 14:37:38 <Elukka> yay, umlauts 14:37:41 <Gekz> night 14:37:46 <Eddi|zuHause> finnish is made up to 50% of À ;) 14:37:53 <Elukka> lies 14:38:18 <thingwath> down with the vowels 14:40:42 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i was just googeling for "hÀufigkeit von buchstaben finnisch", and klicked on a link there, and google tells me that this site is probably infected by malware... 14:41:00 <thingwath> google went mad 14:41:09 *** FR^2 [~frquadrat@frquadrat.de] has joined #openttd 14:41:22 <thingwath> http://upload.nanana.name/files/paranoid-google.png 14:41:36 <thingwath> (ah, it's czech, sorry) 14:41:47 <valhalla1w> good to know its a global problem :P 14:44:24 <De_Ghosty> is it me 14:44:27 <De_Ghosty> or is google broke 14:44:41 <Eddi|zuHause> "i'm feeling lucky" today :p 14:44:49 <Elukka> google works 14:45:10 <valhalla1w> its just that the links are broken :P 14:45:11 <De_Ghosty> maybe it's the server cluster i'm conencting to 14:45:13 <Roest> Results 1 - 10 of 33.100.000 for is google broke 14:45:13 <thingwath> only it has finally realised how dangerous the internet is. 14:45:14 <De_Ghosty> o 14:45:16 <De_Ghosty> so it's not me 14:45:41 <Elukka> huh 14:45:47 <Elukka> it says everything has malware 14:45:57 <Elukka> including google :D 14:46:04 <De_Ghosty> that's what u get for worknig with ms 14:46:22 <De_Ghosty> it became goo-ista 14:49:08 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:49:49 *** davis_ [~iloveme@p5B28F3FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:56 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28F3FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:49:56 <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i can't find statistics for finnish... anyway, more than every 6th letter in german is "e" (english: every 8th) 14:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> and every 2500th letter is a "y" (english: every 50th) 14:53:10 <thingwath> there had to be some reason for the qwertz nonsense 14:53:47 <Eddi|zuHause> less common than the "y" are only "x" and "q" 14:54:17 <Rubidium> even looks like that Google's malware diagnostics/faq servers are in denial 14:55:55 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i needed many tries before getting an actual page 15:00:18 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 15:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> hm.. i'm pretty sure i have seen a statistics over the average word length, but i can't find it 15:09:07 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #openttd 15:11:34 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:52 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 15:14:06 <Zr40> what does it take to get patches into svn? 15:15:30 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:36 <Aali> patience 15:15:38 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #openttd 15:15:59 <Aali> Zr40: a commit, usually 15:16:09 *** angelo [~angelo@ppp-94-65-240-222.home.otenet.gr] has joined #openttd 15:16:25 <Zr40> you have to have access for that though 15:16:36 <Aali> of course 15:20:10 <Zr40> well, I mean, what does it take for someone to commit a patch? :) 15:20:51 <petern> firstly, a patch 15:21:19 <Eddi|zuHause> then, a bribe 15:21:35 <Eddi|zuHause> a review, testing, documentation (not necessarily in this order) 15:21:42 <Eddi|zuHause> and another bribe 15:23:38 <Zr40> what kind of reviews, tests and documentation? 15:24:25 <petern> or beer 15:25:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd file that under bribe ;) 15:26:50 <frosch123> Zr40: after it is 'well tested' it can procede like in http://bugs.openttd.org/task/2291 :p 15:29:21 <Zr40> well, I've got this nice patch that works nicely 15:29:32 <SmatZ> hehe 15:29:58 <Zr40> not even a complicated change 15:30:18 <Zr40> but it's just sitting there in bugs.openttd.org since 2006 15:32:50 <Zr40> http://bugs.openttd.org/task/104 15:33:26 <Rubidium> then it's probably not that trivial/uncontroversial as you say it is 15:33:34 <Zr40> didn't say it's trivial 15:33:36 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 15:33:52 <Zr40> it's just not as complex as, say, the one frosch123 linked :) 15:34:16 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 15:34:57 *** davis_ [~iloveme@p5B28F3FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:38:44 <Aali> Zr40: no screenshot? 15:38:52 <Zr40> old screenshot: http://bugs.openttd.org/task/104/getfile/172/finances_screenshot.png 15:38:59 <Zr40> I'll take a fresh one 15:39:41 <Aali> better yet, just upload one to the FS task 15:39:48 <Aali> anyway, that thing makes the finances window (which is already quite large) into a monster window 15:40:30 <petern> the patch is still as ugly as it ever was. sorry. 15:40:33 <Aali> and I don't really see the benefit, you can easily work that out in your head 15:41:04 <Aali> not to mention the calculations are wrong in that screenshot :P 15:41:17 <Zr40> that's been fixed years ago :) 15:41:53 <Zr40> care to elaborate, petern? 15:42:05 *** davis- [~iloveme@p5B28F3FE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:42:25 <Aali> huge block of code with mostly identical lines? yeah that is nasty 15:43:03 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: from __future__ import antigravity] 15:43:06 <Zr40> indeed. But I can't use a nice loop because the order doesn't match 15:43:46 * petern has a go at reworking it somewhat 15:43:51 <Zr40> wait a bit please 15:44:14 <Zr40> just found a bug caused by manually applying the old one 15:44:32 <Zr40> old patch* 15:47:55 <Zr40> ok, I've uploaded the new patch 15:53:41 <Zr40> well, Aali, about the size, I don't think that's avoidable 15:53:48 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d87030a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:53:53 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 15:54:02 <Zr40> the font could perhaps be made smaller, but that would make it an unreadable mess of numbers imho 15:54:16 <Celestar> edeca: you around? :) 15:54:49 *** j-b-r [~j-b-r@ip98-169-72-161.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #openttd 15:58:07 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:00:23 <Celestar> meh 16:00:29 <Celestar> vmware workstation segfaults 16:03:39 <Elukka> hmm... i ought to try a finnish trainset 16:04:07 <Elukka> i dont have any grf related skills, but those can be acquired 16:16:10 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 16:16:14 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@f051084166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:17:23 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d87030a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:19:39 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d858e2a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 16:19:40 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 16:20:07 *** j-b-r [~j-b-r@ip98-169-72-161.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.5/2008120122]] 16:23:06 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-67-90.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 16:23:43 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e180234023.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:23:46 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 16:29:22 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:51 <el_en> hello señor Celestar 16:31:55 <Celestar> oy 16:32:07 <Rubidium> yo 16:32:54 <el_en> λo 16:32:54 <Rubidium> did you know this game is usually played with o and x and in a 3x3 field? ;) 16:33:18 <Celestar> (= 16:36:20 <Eddi|zuHause> _|_|_ 16:36:22 <Eddi|zuHause> _|_|_ 16:36:26 <Eddi|zuHause> | | 16:36:30 <Eddi|zuHause> go ahead ;) 16:36:46 <Celestar> MEH 16:36:48 <petern> Zr40: http://fuzzle.org/~petern/ottd/economy.patch 16:38:02 <petern> Zr40: ^ loops are not the evil you make out in the fs comments... 16:38:38 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-26-67-90.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:41:59 <Celestar> where's edeca when you need him? 16:42:20 <Rubidium> there where you're when he needs you 16:42:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Edeka is 2 roads around the corner 16:43:25 *** Zealotus [~Ping@78-69-54-150-no70.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #openttd 16:45:56 <Celestar> :P 16:47:41 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-27-118-35.bmly.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 16:47:48 <dihedral> Celestar, nice to see you here again, how are you? 16:48:20 <Celestar> fine :D 16:49:30 <dihedral> nice 16:49:35 <dihedral> glad to hear 16:51:24 <Celestar> and you? 16:53:50 <dihedral> well.. not so well :-P 16:53:55 <dihedral> am a wee bit sick 16:54:58 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:55:52 <Celestar> eeks 16:55:54 <Celestar> not good 16:56:02 <Celestar> vmware workstation seems to be a pita 16:56:14 <dihedral> had a fever of 39.5 degrees centegrad yesterday 17:00:01 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 17:06:32 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 17:10:47 *** mode/#openttd [+v Celestar] by ChanServ 17:19:12 <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/doc/capacityadventure.txt <- mhwhahahar 17:20:11 <Celestar> ROFLMAO! 17:20:17 <Celestar> from the win7 download site: 17:20:18 <Celestar> You'll need some technical skills, like knowing how to: 17:20:20 <Celestar> Burn an ISO file to make an install DVD (A good example of what we mean by âtechnicalâ) 17:20:24 <Celestar> VERY technical 17:22:18 <frosch123> "(A good example of what we mean by âtechnicalâ)" <- is that from the site, or did you added that? 17:24:20 <thingwath> isn't it technical skill? if not, then what? artistic? :) 17:24:58 <SmatZ> [18:21:14] <frosch123> http://devs.openttd.org/~frosch/doc/capacityadventure.txt <- mhwhahahar <== impressive 17:25:18 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:56 <Rubidium> frosch123: sounds like a nice reduction of code (unification) to me 17:26:05 <frosch123> now I need food :) 17:26:41 <Rubidium> as in cooking or going to the edeka (or competitor) 17:26:54 <frosch123> hehe, the most lucky part of it is, that it is so broken/inconsistent that we do not really have to stay compatible with anything before :) 17:28:25 <frosch123> as in taking some flour, eggs and milk and but the stuff in a pan (not all at once) 17:28:42 <frosch123> s/but/put/ 17:29:02 <Celestar> I _hate_ recovery CDs 17:29:08 <Rubidium> sounds like making pancakes ;) 17:29:29 <Forked> recovery CDs only recover all the crapware they push on you when you buy a new pre-installed computer :) 17:29:36 <Celestar> yes 17:29:49 <Celestar> and that you, in a vain effort, tried to remove after switching it off the first time 17:30:02 * Celestar is glad he bought his new laptop without software (= 17:30:18 <Forked> first thing I do when I get my hands on a new computer is reinstall it... 17:30:21 * Rubidium doesn't really care about the software on a new laptop 17:30:46 <Celestar> Rubidium: well, not. unless it causes the comp to take 2 minutes to boot 17:30:48 <Rubidium> first thing is inserting the UTP cable in and boot from network to install Linux 17:30:52 <Celestar> yes :D 17:30:59 <thingwath> without software as in "with freedos" or really without anything? 17:31:32 <Celestar> thingwath: unpartitioned HDD 17:31:49 <thingwath> huh, who sells that? 17:31:54 <Celestar> Lenovo ;) 17:32:00 <Celestar> via the academic program 17:32:03 <thingwath> interesting 17:32:24 <Celestar> well, it costs 100 EUR less than with VB/XPPro 17:32:24 <Rubidium> Dell does too, IIRC 17:32:41 <Celestar> but now I seem to have misplaced my XP CD :P 17:35:27 <Elukka> just to make sure: if i do a scenario with the latest stable, will it be usable on future versions? 17:35:38 <dihedral> oh man 17:35:51 <dihedral> read what you were told you earlier 17:36:01 <Celestar> heh. 17:36:15 <Celestar> VMware workstation apparently supports CPU hotplug 17:36:29 <Celestar> I wonder what the guest-XP sais if I "unplug" one of the CPUs? 17:36:44 <Zr40> probably nothing at all 17:36:52 <Celestar> yeah. nothing anymore ... 17:37:13 <Forked> no fun :\ 17:37:17 <SmatZ> hehehe 17:37:31 * Rubidium expected a: your hardware changed, please reactivate Windows 17:37:37 <SmatZ> :-P 17:37:50 <Eddi|zuHause> <Celestar> but now I seem to have misplaced my XP CD :P <- you find it on TPB then :p 17:38:32 <dihedral> Rubidium, only as of 3 components, no? 17:38:52 <Celestar> Eddi|zuHause: TBP? 17:38:55 <Celestar> TPB? 17:39:01 <Eddi|zuHause> nevermind ;) 17:40:40 <Rubidium> Celestar, that's easily googleable: http://www.google.com/search?hl=xx-pirate&q=tpb&btnG=Google+Searrrch 17:41:47 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E765.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Progman] 17:41:55 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E765.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:42:08 <Celestar> uh huh (= 17:42:22 <Celestar> theoretically, if I download that but still have a valid Key/license ... 17:42:24 * Celestar ponders 17:42:40 <Celestar> Rubidium: because TPB are ThinkPad Button for me :P 17:42:55 <SmatZ> software piracy? in my #openttd ? 17:42:56 <Forked> the copy is not illegal as long as you have a license is it? Consider it as backup of your lost cd 17:43:14 <Forked> however sharing it probably is 17:43:23 <Rubidium> SmatZ: downloading it is legal in the NL 17:43:27 <Wolf01> no, the backup should be made with your own cd or it is illegal 17:43:55 <SmatZ> same here, Wolf01 17:44:17 * Rubidium doesn't know whether using it once downloaded is legal though 17:44:23 <Wolf01> but the question is: and when the seller doesn't provide you the cd but only the factory restore dvd? 17:44:25 <SmatZ> hehe 17:44:38 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 17:44:50 <Rubidium> but then, the EULA is fairly pointless in Europe too 17:45:05 <Wolf01> the EULA is not valid in many countries 17:45:22 <SmatZ> Wolf01: I downloaded CD image in case I had valid CD key (but I didn't receive the CD) ... well, it was friend's computer 17:45:38 <SmatZ> valid CD key = that stupid sticked with CD key 17:46:06 <Forked> even if the key it valid doesn't automaticly mean you own the license though? :p 17:46:14 <Rubidium> download: to transfer (as data or files) from a usually large computer to the memory of another device (as a smaller computer) 17:46:55 <thingwath> Wolf01: without valid licence you can't use the software :) 17:47:06 <Rubidium> now what IF I see the CD/DVD player as the 'large computer' and the HDD the 'large computer'... is installing illegal? It's downloading after all 17:47:21 *** Celestar_ [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d858e2a.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 17:47:23 <SmatZ> hehe 17:47:29 <Forked> Rubidium: what if it's a network install? :) 17:47:52 <Rubidium> after all, my CD player's bigger than my HDD and data gets passed directly between them using DMA 17:47:53 <Celestar_> Forked: I haven't _lost_ my CD. it's on my office desk :P 17:48:00 <SmatZ> I would consider a server that fits in 1U rack to be smaller than my computer 17:48:23 <petern> i've never seen a 1U rack 17:48:56 <Celestar_> well, but you have seen 1U servers, aven't you? 17:49:27 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, copying from CD to HDD is illegal, unless permitted by the license 17:49:35 <SmatZ> I failed in transforming my thoughts to English words :-p 17:49:52 * Rubidium always thought those 1U things were the pizza boxes of the admins ;) 17:49:55 <Eddi|zuHause> but copying from CD to RAM (temporarily) in order to execute is not (according to german copyright laws) 17:49:57 <SmatZ> hehe 17:50:30 <Celestar_> bah 17:50:32 <Celestar_> I'm STUPID 17:50:34 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what if the only way to see the license is by copying it first? 17:50:45 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d858e2a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:51:33 <Eddi|zuHause> the word of the german copyright is something like: "temporary copies for technical reasons are permitted without license" 17:52:08 <Wolf01> like "I want to try it... for a year or.. five" 17:52:13 <Celestar_> we have a download service of microsoft products for the uni :) 17:52:18 *** Celestar_ is now known as Celestar 17:52:27 <Rubidium> msdnaa? 17:52:32 <Celestar> yeah 17:52:32 <Rubidium> then you need to hurry 17:52:40 <Celestar> ? 17:52:52 <Rubidium> activation (for me) requires calling MS 17:53:01 <Celestar> not for us. 17:53:10 <Wolf01> Celestar, I want to mess up your roadstops (in case you didn't know it already) do you have any short term projects for them? 17:53:18 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 17:53:23 <Eddi|zuHause> http://bundesrecht.juris.de/urhg/__44a.html 17:53:30 <Rubidium> Celestar: are you sure? It's the experience I've got from using MSDN AA 17:53:31 <Celestar> Wolf01: yes, but I'm not working on them. you wanna fix DTRS? 17:53:42 <Celestar> Rubidium: yes, it depends on the site apparently. 17:53:59 <Roest> Rubidium: i can activate my msdnaa windows just normally over the net 17:54:03 *** sigmund_ [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 17:54:07 <thingwath> I was able to activate MSDNAA XP without calling anywhere. 17:54:13 <Celestar> Rubidium: 3:1 :P 17:54:22 <Wolf01> Celestar, no, I'm only trying to add them the graphics for the slopes, since I already made possible to build stations on slopes 17:54:34 <Celestar> Wolf01: that should work out just fine 17:54:35 * Rubidium slaps the person responisble for that then 17:54:37 <Eddi|zuHause> you may make temporary copies if they are an integral part of an otherwise legal use 17:55:02 <Eddi|zuHause> or if you are just mediating between other parties in a network 17:55:22 <Celestar> at uni, windows is cheaper than SLES :( 17:55:26 <Eddi|zuHause> meaning you can legally run proxy servers ;) 17:55:49 *** sigmund [~sigmund@91.80-202-245.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:56:13 <Roest> which reminds me i have to get everything from msdnaa before i leave the uni next month ^^ 17:56:17 <Celestar> haha 17:56:22 <Celestar> same here in May. 17:56:32 <Celestar> does anyone run XP 64bit btw? does it WORK? 17:56:37 <thingwath> msdnaa software is limited to noncommercial use, I think 17:56:40 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15298 /trunk/src/company_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#2588]: don't start another AI company in MP when there are too many companies 17:56:44 <Celestar> thingwath: it is. 17:56:51 <Celestar> thingwath: my laptop is noncommercial. 17:56:53 <thingwath> :) 17:56:56 <Celestar> since I use XP only for gaming. 17:57:01 <Celestar> which is noncommecrial :P 17:57:03 <Celestar> mostly :P 17:57:33 <Celestar> now, if I would take part in some world championships, which offer prize money, is that non-commercial? 17:57:48 <Eddi|zuHause> when does "commercial" start? 17:58:05 <SmatZ> yes 17:58:11 <Eddi|zuHause> if you write a diploma thesis, and a company pays you during that time? 17:58:15 <Rubidium> if it would be your job, then I'd say yes. In any other case: food for a judge 17:58:33 <Celestar> I've got to head out a bit. dinner time 17:58:35 <Celestar> cu later 17:58:38 <SmatZ> bb Celestar 17:58:41 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@mnch-5d858e2a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:59:06 <Rubidium> heading out for dinner sounds like a sound plan 18:01:03 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 18:02:30 <Eddi|zuHause> if i overview the copyright correctly, the easiest plan to legally download movies is to get a doctor to attest you a disability of going into cinemas ;) 18:03:05 <Aali> and be allergic to DVDs? 18:09:40 <Zr40> petern, could you add your rewrite of my patch to FS? 18:12:33 <frosch123> interesting request, I would have expected a different one :p 18:13:02 <Eddi|zuHause> "could you commit [...]" :p 18:13:43 <Zr40> :D 18:13:49 <RS-SM> hey all 18:21:20 <bandi_zz-sleeps> hey 18:21:40 *** bandi_zz-sleeps is now known as bandi_zz 18:26:04 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1E765.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:48 <dihedral> Rubidium, does it sound like a semi good idea if server admins could specify whether joining clients only join existing companies / spectators, and that way force them to start new companies once they have connected? 18:34:19 <dihedral> would decrease the number of people who join + create a company, and leave as soon as they see the map or some of the settings etc. 18:34:37 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.199.212] has joined #openttd 18:34:52 <dihedral> rephrase - would decrease the number of unused companies created by clients joining and leaving after seeing the map / some of the settings 18:39:48 <Elukka> they get declared bankrupt because of loan interest eventually, but it takes time 18:40:20 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:17 <dihedral> Elukka, that aint the point 18:41:43 <dihedral> there is a feature that allows clients to move between companies in the game 18:43:08 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@88.130.171.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:46:33 <dihedral> and lets them create new ones if they are a spectator 18:46:33 <dihedral> and now that the feature exists, it would perhaps be useful if clients could be made to join as spectator and continue from there 18:46:33 <Eddi|zuHause> means force people to join as spectator, and then create a company if the map/settings/players suit them 18:46:33 <dihedral> aye 18:46:33 <petern> dihedral, .patch or it, er, never happened. 18:46:33 <dihedral> or perhaps also allow them to join already existing companies 18:46:33 <Aali> I was just going to say that 18:46:33 <dihedral> petern, the move thing is already included 18:46:33 <petern> remove "New company" and "Spectate game" and merge them to "Join game" 18:46:33 <dihedral> my question is rather is it interesting 18:46:33 <petern> and "Join game" does the same as what "Spectate game" did 18:46:33 <dihedral> petern: either that, or allow admins to set their servers up individually 18:46:33 <dihedral> i.e. let them chose if it's possible to create company upon join 18:47:10 <petern> "dihedral, .patch or it, er, never happened." 18:47:11 <petern> :p 18:47:41 <dihedral> i will write it if you guys think it's worth it 18:48:37 <petern> only problem i forsee is people joining unpassworded companies instead of spectating 18:48:54 <petern> hmm 18:48:55 <petern> no 18:48:56 <petern> duh 18:49:08 <petern> that's what would happen if you did it the way i suggested 18:49:22 <dihedral> it can happen either way 18:49:47 <Aali> thats not really a problem though, is it? 18:50:08 <dihedral> well, some people (esp on stable games) have fun in destroying games for others 18:50:17 <Aali> doesn't really matter if they're spectating or not as long as they don't start useless companies 18:50:27 <dihedral> they join unprotected companies and waste their money on flooding the map 18:51:16 <Aali> I guess it could get confusing for new players though, spectate tends to imply that you wont be participating in any way 18:51:34 <Aali> so they'll join an existing company instead, which hides the new company button 18:52:41 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why petern's suggestion was to rename the button 18:52:47 <Aali> however, if the only thing you can do is spectate, they'll join and ask for help 18:53:14 <Aali> perhaps only allow directly joining passworded companies as another option? 18:53:19 <Eddi|zuHause> the join message can say "you are currently a spectator, to create a company [...]" 18:54:24 <Aali> well, the ask for help part is a good thing, I've got no problem with that 18:56:21 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:56:44 *** Celestar_ [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 18:57:09 *** Celestar_ [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 18:57:19 <dihedral> welcome message is set by the server 19:00:07 <Aali> I think you should go with a setting with 4 options; new clients can do anything (same as it is now), new clients can join any company, new clients can join passworded and new clients can spectate only 19:00:41 <Aali> that should cover most people's needs :) 19:01:28 <Rubidium> what's the use for 'join any company'? 19:01:44 <Rubidium> and does that imply ignoring passwords? 19:02:23 <frosch123> I guess he did not meant 'join a random company' 19:02:52 <dihedral> hehe 19:03:10 <dihedral> join any random company, even if it's pw protected :-P 19:03:21 <Aali> some people might want to run servers where companies are "free-for-all" (no passwords) and still not allow random clients to create useless companies 19:03:24 <Aali> haha 19:03:34 <Aali> yeah, thats exactly what I meant :P 19:04:00 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:23 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 19:11:18 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.12] has joined #openttd 19:12:34 <Rubidium> dihedral: you've got OSX, right? If so, can you reproduce FS#2585? 19:12:51 * Sacro has OSX 19:14:21 <dihedral> i'll do my best 19:14:32 <frosch123> Sacro: be careful, you might be forced into OSX maintance-slavery 19:14:58 <Rubidium> yeah, lets assign Sacro to FS#1140 19:15:03 <Sacro> frosch123: I can't even compile it 19:15:06 <Sacro> Rubidium: link me 19:15:39 <Rubidium> https://secure.openttd.org/bugs/task/1140?project=1&type[0]=1&sev[0]=&pri[0]=&due[0]=&cat[0]=&status[0]=open&percent[0]=&reported[0]=&order=id&sort=desc (I'm lazy) 19:17:45 <Sacro> invalid cert 19:18:13 <Rubidium> then add the cacert root certificate ;) 19:18:20 <Sacro> ah hrm 19:18:28 * Sacro tries to figure out what he's doing 19:19:06 <Rubidium> we don't fancy paying several hundreds of dollars a year for a SSL certificate that's supported by all major browsers OOTB 19:19:14 <Sacro> qwerty 19:19:21 <Rubidium> azerty 19:19:41 *** Celestar1 [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:19:53 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:21:15 *** Celestar1 is now known as Celestar 19:21:30 <petern> several? £50 max... 19:21:37 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.12] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- IRC with a difference] 19:21:41 <petern> still too much when cacert is available 19:21:43 <Rubidium> petern: not for the kind of certificate we use 19:21:51 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #openttd [] 19:21:53 <petern> oh, wildcard? 19:21:56 <Rubidium> yup 19:22:02 <dihedral> hehe 19:22:41 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 19:27:55 <dihedral> Rubidium, i have no issues with 15297 19:29:13 <dihedral> appart from when the game is windowed but maximised, and i move the mouse down to the hidden dock and back into the game (after the dock appeared), then i have the default osx mouse on top of the openttd mouse, and i can get rid of the osx mouse my very quickly moving the mouse back down to the dock and back up again 19:29:32 <dihedral> but that has been the case for a long time now 19:29:45 <dihedral> fullscreen: no issues at all 19:30:01 <dihedral> and i have a few more apps open than just itunes :-P 19:30:28 <dihedral> though i must add, i have 10.4 19:30:35 <dihedral> the bug report might very well be for 10.5 19:30:38 <Rubidium> so it's kinda confirmed; you can get the osx mouse 19:30:59 <dihedral> i can get the os x mouse 19:31:05 <dihedral> but not in full screen 19:31:09 <petern> 19:29 < dihedral> but that has been the case for a long time now 19:31:14 <petern> IT'S NICE THAT PEOPLE REPORT BUGS ISN'T IT 19:32:11 <dihedral> i told bjarni a few times, just never wrote a bug report 19:33:08 <dihedral> however, i get a nasty mouse behaviour if i am in window mode and the window is smaller than the screen 19:33:19 <dihedral> then the openttd mouse and the osx mouse are at different locations 19:33:21 <Sacro> dihedral: i see that bug 19:33:27 <dihedral> and move simultaneously :-) 19:33:44 <dihedral> what i mentioned or what the fs report mentiones 19:33:45 <Sacro> mine are together 19:34:04 <dihedral> which os x version? 19:34:42 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:30 <Sacro> 10.5.6 19:35:52 <dihedral> i am on 10.4.9 19:36:18 <Sacro> hmmm, I see that fs bug 19:37:36 <Sacro> I seem to scroll off randomly 19:37:43 <Sacro> what is the required result? 19:38:33 <Rubidium> Sacro: talking about FS#1140? Then I've got absolutely no clue. I'd say ask Bjarni :( 19:39:10 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:39:17 <Sacro> Rubidium: i think he's dead or something 19:39:21 <Sacro> @seen Bjarni 19:39:21 <DorpsGek> Sacro: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 1 day, 0 hours, 10 minutes, and 16 seconds ago: <Bjarni> hi Wolf01 19:40:34 <Rubidium> Sacro: so is the OSX port 19:42:08 <dihedral> Rubidium, can you make a change at bugs please? when specifiying os x, perhaps let them (the reporters) choose from 10.3.9 10.4 and 10.5? 19:42:38 <Sacro> Rubidium: hmmm 19:42:44 <Sacro> I don't know OSX coding 19:43:15 <Rubidium> dihedral: that'd mean a lot of work maintaining an enormous list of different versions of OSX, Windows etc. 19:43:45 <Rubidium> (can't specify versions per OS) 19:43:52 <Sacro> Rubidium: hmm, well yes 19:44:13 <Sacro> OSX panther, osx tiger and osx leopard 19:45:04 <dihedral> Rubidium, you dont have to maintain all of them, it just makes it easier when trying to reproduce 19:45:21 <dihedral> if it's 10.5 and the bug does not exist for me, then what can i do to fix it? 19:45:58 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.132.255] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:47:23 <Rubidium> people should just mention the exact version in the details 19:47:34 <Sacro> Rubidium: well we could drop support for 10.3 19:47:45 <Rubidium> Sacro: I rather drop support for 10.5 19:47:46 <Sacro> lets face it, it's a well old version 19:48:40 <dihedral> Sacro: why drop 10.3 now, as long as their are no issues with 10.3? 19:50:02 <Rubidium> 10.3 and 10.4 run faster than 10.5 intel (with a specific GPU driver) 19:51:10 <dihedral> depends on the model of the intel mac :-P 19:51:27 <dihedral> and on the model of the ppc mac 19:51:39 <Roest> hmm would it be possible that scenarios use the KI settings from the main menu, meaning which ones too load? 19:51:44 <Rubidium> dihedral: it actually depends on the GPU driver 19:52:41 <Rubidium> Roest: not really 19:52:51 <Rubidium> only for new scenarios 19:53:44 <Roest> that's saved with the scenario? 19:53:50 <Rubidium> yes 19:53:53 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.132.255] has joined #openttd 19:54:16 <Roest> could thta be overwritten by loading one into the editor and saving again? 19:54:28 <Rubidium> no 19:55:15 <Rubidium> as that would mean breaking any settings made before in the scenario 19:55:54 <Rubidium> it'd also mean some conversion functions (when switching settings) aren't ran making the scenario invalid 19:56:19 <Roest> so in order to play an old scenario with a certain AI i have to delete all the others 19:56:50 <Rubidium> you can't configure them in-game? 19:57:13 <Roest> either i'm blind or i really can't 19:57:31 <Rubidium> ask Yexo about that ;) 19:59:10 <Rubidium> otherwise you can start an ai using start_ai <name> from the in-game console 20:01:06 <Roest> ah ok 20:11:06 *** Gekz [~brendan@123-243-206-102.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:16:18 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 20:16:22 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15299 /trunk/src/ (225 files in 13 dirs): -Cleanup: remove many redundant includes 20:20:57 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 20:24:06 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:22 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 20:26:31 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 20:30:29 <Prof_Frink> Wow, that host's shoutier than KCOM.COM 20:31:01 <Sacro> indeed 20:31:22 <dihedral> .edu? 20:31:30 <Sacro> new york uni 20:31:33 <Sacro> i guess 20:31:37 <Sacro> educational 20:31:39 <dihedral> prob 20:32:09 <dihedral> yes, i know .edu, just never seen anyone here with that 20:32:37 <RS-SM> yeah 20:32:46 <RS-SM> I'm in school 20:33:25 <dihedral> sm is no orientation of yours, is it? 20:33:42 <Rubidium> on a saturday afternoon 'round tea time being at school? 20:34:22 <petern> tea time? bit early for that 20:35:06 <Rubidium> well, he still has to commute to a proper place to drink tea ;) 20:35:14 <dihedral> any time is tea time 20:39:37 <RS-SM> Yeah 20:40:00 <RS-SM> I have my tea here, in the library, my TTD ready, and I'm good 20:40:08 <RS-SM> and wait, are you all English? 20:40:15 <dihedral> nope 20:44:18 <Prof_Frink> I am all English. 20:44:52 <Sacro> me too 20:45:30 <RS-SM> Cool mates 20:45:39 <RS-SM> Grandfather came from one of your colonies 20:45:39 <petern> OH MY GOD WE HAVE A CRITICAL SITUATION IN THE PETERN HOUSEHOLD 20:45:50 <Prof_Frink> petern: </beer>? 20:46:01 <petern> Prof_Frink is a winner 20:46:11 <SmatZ> hehe 20:46:14 * Prof_Frink has Pride. 20:47:10 <petern> i could open the wine... 20:47:13 <petern> but... 20:47:35 <Rubidium> ... the wisky's already opened 20:47:44 <SmatZ> :o) 20:49:16 <Rubidium> or 20:50:36 <Rubidium> ... the brewery is next door, they're still open and sell to end users 20:51:12 <Prof_Frink> Rubidium: Install a pipeline! 20:52:23 <Sacro> we are making a brewery here 20:52:27 <Elukka> make a complicated miniature railway beer transportation network instead 20:52:32 <Elukka> much awesomer than pipelines 20:53:26 <Prof_Frink> Nah, having a set of pumps in the kitchen would be better. 20:54:12 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5CE06.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:01:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15300 /trunk/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Cleanup: remove an unused icon and remove the references to swedish forgotten in r6358. 21:02:52 <Eddi|zuHause> @openttd commit 6358 21:02:52 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: Commit by Darkvater :: r6358 trunk/ottdres.rc (2006-09-03 16:02:15 UTC) 21:02:53 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: -Codechange: update resource file to reflect development tree (0.5.0.0) as file 21:02:54 <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: version, and added revision number. Also remove SWEDISH resources. 21:05:33 <Sacro> oh god 21:10:11 <el_en> what sort of SWEDISH resources? 21:11:02 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ffe4a.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:39 *** Zr40 [~Zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:11 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:13:44 <Eddi|zuHause> i have no idea 21:14:16 <Eddi|zuHause> sounds like the stuff that gets displayed in windows when you click on file properties 21:15:16 <glx> just remember who started openttd :) 21:16:02 <el_en> i do remember. 21:16:47 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:16:49 *** mode/#openttd [+o Celestar] by ChanServ 21:20:40 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has quit [Quit: I'll be back] 21:21:35 <Celestar> hm. 21:21:50 <Celestar> bbl 21:21:51 <Celestar> :P 21:21:52 *** Celestar [~Jadzia_Da@p5B0D9A8D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:22:04 *** Rexxars [~rexxars@62.113.132.255] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:53 *** const86 [~const@tower.mimas.ru] has joined #openttd 21:27:48 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: peter1138 * r15301 /trunk/src/ (5 files in 2 dirs): -Feature [FS#104]: Add option to group and subtotal expenses list in the company finance window. Concept from Zr40. 21:29:36 <Belugas> i don't remember, 21:29:38 <Belugas> i don;t recall 21:29:46 <Belugas> i've got n memory 21:29:49 <Belugas> of anythng at all 21:32:39 <petern> <3 21:33:01 <Belugas> strange is your language 21:33:05 <Belugas> and i have no decoder 21:33:20 <Belugas> what don't you make your intentions clear? 21:33:27 *** masdaskl [6151cd1b@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:34:17 <Belugas> I'm all mixed up, 21:34:17 <masdaskl> hello.. i have a question.. is openttd always going to require the original TTD data 21:34:22 <Belugas> i've got nothing to say 21:34:36 <Rubidium> no 21:34:40 <petern> until somebody makes a replacement sample.cat ... 21:34:45 <Elukka> not once opengfx is done, i think 21:34:51 <Belugas> miaooow 21:34:51 <petern> incidentally, i should finish my catcodec... 21:34:56 <Wolf01> good night 21:35:05 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host114-234-dynamic.21-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 21:35:07 <masdaskl> so.. is it in developement or still concept 21:35:09 <petern> so far it extracts to .wav files (except the corrupt one, heh) 21:35:30 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B806A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 21:35:33 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 21:35:36 <Belugas> masdaskl, search for opengfx on the forums :) 21:35:38 <petern> replacement data has always been possible. we're not making it though. 21:37:19 <masdaskl> is it a goal to move away from the copyrighted material so openTTD can be distributed freely 21:38:43 <Sacro> any manouvre from point a to point b makes point b a goal 21:41:12 <Belugas> masdaskl, why do you think about it? 21:41:23 <Belugas> what... 21:41:26 <Belugas> not why 21:42:41 <masdaskl> Belugas: about what? 21:43:04 <Belugas> about your question... 21:44:40 <masdaskl> i would hope that was the goal.. but petern stated that the openttd wasnt developing the openGFX .. so i thought id ask 21:44:57 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [Quit: On snow, everyone can follow your traces] 21:47:01 <el_en> masdaskl: it's questionable whether the opengfx would be considered not to be a derivative of the original graphics. 21:47:27 <masdaskl> i dont undestand what your saying.. 21:47:55 <masdaskl> to close to the original copyrighted artwork... ?? is that what your saying? 21:48:08 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 21:48:29 <el_en> yes, it is quite close. 21:48:48 <masdaskl> so.. it may be to close to a copyright infringement to use ? 21:49:30 <el_en> possibly. 21:49:47 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 21:49:48 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 21:49:48 <masdaskl> is the plan to dev new GFX work.. or to rework the current openGFX 21:50:27 <masdaskl> wb Belugas 21:50:48 <petern> the developers have no plans for that because none of them are artists 21:51:12 <Belugas> hey... that's so not true!! 21:51:17 <masdaskl> i ask because i was looking at playing the game.. but i dont own a copy of ttd 21:51:18 <petern> graphic artists :D 21:51:20 <Belugas> I'm a great guitarist! 21:51:23 <Belugas> heheh 21:51:26 <Belugas> granted :) 21:51:34 <petern> you can play with opengfx, but it's not made by the developers 21:52:18 <masdaskl> future official support ? 21:52:43 <el_en> i think any new graphics that is created will always be quite close to the original graphics, as long as the graphics needs to be exactly the same size as originally, and have same purpose. 21:53:02 <masdaskl> yeah 21:53:17 <Belugas> mmh... could be, maybe not... let say the game will support alternative base gfx 21:53:18 <masdaskl> thats what i was pondering.. figured they needed to be the same dimension 21:53:24 <petern> the developers provided the ability to use non-original graphics more easily 21:53:49 <petern> just a different set of people work on opengfx 21:53:50 <Belugas> that's waht i wanted to say, but i did it not as brilliantly :S 21:53:53 <masdaskl> do any of yall use the openGFX.. or do yall own the org ttd 21:54:16 <petern> i own a copy of ttd myself 21:54:24 <el_en> what's the license of openGFX? 21:54:33 <petern> i think they settled on gpl 21:54:42 <Sacro> heh 21:54:45 <Sacro> GPL was a bad choice 21:54:52 <masdaskl> what would you of chose ? 21:55:01 <Sacro> cos then you have the whole 'what format' issue 21:55:03 <el_en> hmm, then someone could actually package openttd with opengfx in some distro. 21:55:13 <Sacro> masdaskl: CC by-sa-nc 21:55:18 <petern> el_en, ding 21:55:22 <masdaskl> public domain 21:55:28 <Sacro> no, not PD 21:55:33 <petern> most likely is an opengfx package, and make openttd depend on it 21:55:56 <Sacro> openttd-data or something 21:56:03 <petern> Sacro, shut up, all the license considerations were taken on the forums already 21:56:09 <petern> and no, cc-by-sa-nc is not suitable 21:56:18 <Sacro> but then with banana you don't need to include them 21:56:32 <Sacro> petern: I think LGPL would be better 21:56:53 <el_en> what about the copyright-free midi music that Sacro found? 21:57:36 <petern> who plays with the music on? :p 21:58:14 <el_en> i do, on mac. on linux the music won't play. 21:59:23 <petern> silly linux 21:59:31 <masdaskl> what distro 21:59:39 <Belugas> yall? what the heck does yall mean??? 21:59:53 <masdaskl> you all 22:00:26 <Belugas> oh... ok... and why didn't you wrote it as such in the beginning?? :P 22:00:47 <Belugas> let me guess... you are american? 22:01:01 <masdaskl> yes 22:01:23 * Belugas wins 22:01:34 <el_en> Belugas is from Canada, where they have a 20-hour clock. 22:01:47 <masdaskl> 20 hour clock? 22:01:50 <Belugas> 21, el_en, 21... 22:01:56 <el_en> oh, sorry. 22:02:04 <petern> # I AM IRON MAN 22:02:12 <masdaskl> 21 hour clock really? 22:02:20 <Belugas> of course... 22:02:46 <Belugas> and Obama is thinking about using it, in order to boost productivity 22:02:48 <masdaskl> looking now for some info.. 22:02:53 <masdaskl> really 22:02:55 <Belugas> haven't you heard? 22:03:02 <masdaskl> i havent no 22:03:42 <Eddi|zuHause> everybody knows 22:03:47 <Eddi|zuHause> that the bird is the word 22:04:16 <masdaskl> i cant find any info on a 21 hour clock on google or wikipedia 22:04:47 <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's the opposite of the 28 hour day 22:05:14 <Belugas> yeah... only maericans are still under the 24 hours rule 22:05:29 <masdaskl> says that only qubec use a 12 hour clock 22:05:31 <Belugas> americans... not maericans 22:05:47 <masdaskl> opps i mean 22:05:55 <masdaskl> qubec doesnt use the 12 hour clock 22:06:24 <Belugas> indeed not, we're using the 21 one :) 22:06:27 <Eddi|zuHause> you know, 28 hour days mean you have 6 days per week 22:06:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and 21 hours per day, means you have 8 days per week 22:06:57 <masdaskl> Belugas: do you have a link.. for more info 22:07:06 <petern> thailand has a 6 hour clock 22:07:28 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, they have insanely long weeks 22:07:59 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Quit: ( www.nnscript.com :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: www.regroup-esports.com )] 22:08:14 <Belugas> well... i could send you a photo of my watch, but i'm heavily in debugging stuff for work :P 22:08:15 <el_en> an hour of canadian time has 65 american minutes. 22:09:25 <masdaskl> never heard of such.. hows the economy 22:09:37 <Belugas> better than yours ;) 22:09:58 <petern> at least the bankers can afford their bonuses 22:10:08 <masdaskl> lol 22:11:03 <masdaskl> IMO our economy is about to go down the drain 22:11:16 <masdaskl> crime is .. outrageous right now.. 22:11:22 <masdaskl> no one is working and people cant pay there bills 22:12:16 <petern> # laaaaaaaaa la laaa, la la 22:12:20 <petern> name that tune! 22:12:51 <Sacro> masdaskl: their 22:13:05 <masdaskl> Sacro: Their? 22:13:24 <petern> Sacro: they're thereing their theirs :o 22:13:30 <Sacro> i know :( 22:13:32 <masdaskl> ahh .. their bills 22:13:36 <Sacro> masdaskl: their bills 22:13:45 <masdaskl> pardon me 22:13:51 <petern> # <solo bit> 22:14:07 <Eddi|zuHause> it's weird how the native speakers are always the ones who write worst 22:14:13 <Sacro> petern: don't fear the repear? 22:14:16 <petern> Sacro, yes 22:14:22 * Sacro wins 22:14:23 <Rubidium> petern: the intro of the third Symphony of Nelson? 22:14:27 <el_en> over their people can't pay they're bills, their poor 22:14:28 <petern> Sacro knows of last.fm 22:14:28 <masdaskl> spell check and typing lingo have killed my spelling.. 22:14:34 <Sacro> petern: poo 22:14:36 <masdaskl> not to mention the growing spanglish .. 22:14:47 <Sacro> spanglish? 22:14:59 <masdaskl> spanish and english mixed 22:15:04 * el_en has heard of spanglish before 22:15:07 <petern> like franglais 22:15:10 <Sacro> ahh 22:15:19 <Belugas> joual 22:15:21 <Sacro> petern: ice cream? 22:15:23 <Eddi|zuHause> we only have denglisch hier 22:15:36 <Sacro> heh 22:15:37 <Eddi|zuHause> ice cream, you scream? 22:15:41 <petern> avez vouz heardez mon farts? 22:15:41 <Sacro> we all scream 22:15:49 <el_en> masdaskl: please see this short documentary about the canadian clock (starting at about 0:35): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydw4kj9P90w 22:15:50 <Sacro> petern: si senior 22:16:02 <Sacro> señor even 22:16:14 <petern> si senior < spanglish :D 22:16:18 <Sacro> séñÞr 22:16:22 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 22:16:23 <Mortal> que 22:16:30 <petern> señor ros 22:16:40 <Eddi|zuHause> ¿Qué? 22:16:42 <Mortal> el_en, that description screams rickroll to me 22:16:54 <davis_> barackroll 22:16:56 <el_en> Mortal: negative. 22:17:00 <Sacro> cakeroll 22:17:01 <masdaskl> so.. who thinks the US pulls out of iraq and deploys massive troops to afgan 22:17:23 <Eddi|zuHause> i have never understood this "rickroll" thing... 22:17:38 <davis_> how comes 22:17:42 <xerxesdaphat> I think they should deploy massive Uhl Mail Vans to Truninghill 22:17:45 <el_en> i've never seen this "rickroll" thing, and i think i'm happy this way 22:17:49 <davis_> http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=65I0HNvTDH4 22:18:01 <davis_> barackroll > rickroll anyway 22:18:17 <Mortal> duckroll > barackroll 22:18:25 *** masdaskl [6151cd1b@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 22:18:28 <davis_> do the barrel role 22:18:36 <Eddi|zuHause> breadroll > all 22:18:45 <davis_> :o 22:18:57 <Eddi|zuHause> speaking of which... i need something to eat 22:19:12 <davis_> once in a while. 22:19:37 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: sausageroll > breadroll 22:19:58 <petern> except if it has gristle 22:21:00 <Eddi|zuHause> how do i have to imagine a sausageroll? 22:21:23 <Sacro> well 22:21:28 <Sacro> how do you make a swissroll? 22:21:39 <Eddi|zuHause> what's a swissroll? 22:22:25 <Sacro> sigh 22:22:28 <Sacro> Eddi|zuHause: you know nothing 22:22:33 <Elukka> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_roll 22:22:38 <Elukka> the great oracle of wiki knows everything, though 22:22:55 <davis_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv5qzMtLE60 22:22:58 <davis_> barrel roll 22:23:17 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i do know stuff... but not under their foreignish names 22:23:20 <el_en> i'm not going to click on any of those links. 22:23:36 <Sacro> el_en: good idea 22:23:52 <Sacro> hmm, is this el_en the same as the old ln? 22:24:32 <el_en> could be 22:24:43 <Eddi|zuHause> no, he's the new and improved el_en! 22:24:53 <Eddi|zuHause> now with longer nick! 22:25:11 <Eddi|zuHause> and with English Only! 22:25:46 <el_en> and more e. 22:26:34 <Eddi|zuHause> but! more e violates the english rules 22:27:21 <Eddi|zuHause> only 12,7% of all letters may be "e"s 22:30:27 <el_en> over all text ever written in english? 22:30:58 <thingwath> are non-ascii characters possible in irc nicknames? 22:31:07 <Eddi|zuHause> http://pages.central.edu/emp/LintonT/classes/spring01/cryptography/letterfreq.html 22:31:19 <Eddi|zuHause> The license agreement from Sun for JDK 1.2.1. 22:31:19 <el_en> thingwath: yes and no. 22:31:20 <Eddi|zuHause> The teaching philosophy of a computer science professor from a liberal arts college in Minnesota. 22:31:22 <Eddi|zuHause> A letter of recommendation for a national competition for innovative uses of technology in collegiate teaching. 22:31:53 <Eddi|zuHause> thingwath: yes, the IRC standard does not forbid them. no, most IRC servers forbid them 22:32:03 <thingwath> ah. :-( 22:32:19 <Belugas> i dare you to try and show us how it would go! 22:34:30 <thingwath> no Å, then 22:36:01 <Belugas> ho god.... what a nasty little bitchy bug... 22:36:13 <Belugas> what an ass i can be from time to time :( 22:36:26 <Elukka> hmm... nars2 has company colours 22:36:32 <Elukka> i much preferred the real colours in the older version :/ 22:36:53 <el_en> if you are using an ancient character set called... damn, i forgot what it was called.. then some ASCII characters such as [{}] are actually Àö something. 22:38:05 <el_en> ah, it's ISO646-FI. 22:38:13 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:38:30 <el_en> À = {, ö = |, etc. 22:38:48 <thingwath> À and ö are not very useful for me :) 22:39:59 <Sacro> ö 22:40:01 <Sacro> :o 22:40:03 <Sacro> O; 22:40:08 <Sacro> o: even 22:40:11 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 22:41:25 <Belugas> Elukka, you know why i've suggetsed building time? as an irony. People want SOME part of OPENTTD to be more realistic, but would not ALL the parts of it, 'cause it would not be fun anymore... It was just an exmaple. 22:41:33 <el_en> this is relevant to IRC because i think that charset and those characters have affected the IRC RFC somehow. 22:44:41 <Elukka> belugas, i wouldnt want absolutely everything to be realistic either 22:45:15 <Belugas> that's the situation that irritates me 22:45:22 <Sacro> http://www.b3ta.cr3ation.co.uk/data/jpg/busdog.jpg 22:45:23 <Elukka> in the context of the whole game, it's not a black and white realistic vs. unrealistic case 22:45:24 <Belugas> you wnat a part of it, but not it all 22:45:37 <Elukka> so in your mind, there is no middle ground? 22:45:55 <Elukka> there are things that would be more fun were they to be more realistic, then there are those that would be less fun 22:46:02 <Belugas> middle ground shifts as soon as someone wants a new piece of realism 22:46:35 <Belugas> there are things that would be fun indeed, but some others that are added just to make it alike that will not bring anything more to the game 22:46:37 <Belugas> cost... 22:46:38 <Elukka> sensible costs are one thing that would make the game more fun to play... and why not make them realistic if you're doing it anyway? 22:46:40 <Belugas> frankly... 22:47:03 <Belugas> it would not make the game more fun to play, at all.. only in your mind. 22:47:12 <Belugas> oince you're filthy rich, you can afford everyting 22:47:19 <Belugas> so... it's an illusion 22:47:26 <Elukka> that's a problem to which i don't know a solution 22:47:52 <Sacro> http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=tVde1Bs3MCQ <- XD 22:48:04 <Elukka> as it is, in modern times in ottd you can make the most money with planes 22:48:15 <Elukka> you dont need to do anything at all but plop down airports and buy planes and forget about it 22:48:28 <Elukka> it's not realistic, nor is it as fun as it could be 22:48:54 <Belugas> for you it's not 22:49:00 <Belugas> for some users , it is 22:49:14 <Belugas> nobody is satisfied with what they have 22:49:16 <Elukka> some people find it fun that planes are much, much better from a financial standpoint than any other method? 22:49:17 <Belugas> it's human nature 22:49:30 <Elukka> (while also being easier) 22:49:39 *** Osai is now known as Osai_ 22:49:45 *** Osai_ is now known as Osai 22:49:46 <Belugas> some people (if not most) are using the game as it is, a transport game 22:49:47 <Elukka> real life is a great model to use 22:49:54 <Belugas> any means to get filthy rich is good enouhg 22:49:56 <Elukka> in real life, all methods of transport are viable and used a lot 22:50:12 <thingwath> well, in fact, I usually just use the cheat to get few hundred millions and then not care about money at all 22:50:22 <thingwath> if it were possible, I would just turn money off :) 22:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: that's what happens when you let finns draw up a specification... 22:50:28 <Elukka> trains dont obsolete trucks or buses, planes dont obsolete trains 22:51:01 <Belugas> in real life, it takes years to byuild a bridge. you do not wanted to go there, but saying that real life is a great model, you're doing that, implicitely 22:51:15 <Elukka> again, everything need not be realistic 22:51:26 <Elukka> there's already a kind of middle ground 22:51:30 <Elukka> some things are realistic, the others are not 22:51:37 <Belugas> why? 22:51:40 <Elukka> how can you accept that? 22:51:40 <Belugas> who's to say? 22:51:53 <Elukka> there are real things, there are unrealistic things 22:51:53 <Belugas> woith what criteria? 22:52:06 <Elukka> it's not completely fictional, nor is it a simulator 22:52:16 <Elukka> this implicitly means some things are realistic while some are not 22:52:16 <Belugas> ho? a bridge created in one day is realistic? 22:52:27 <Elukka> nope 22:52:27 *** Osai is now known as Osai_ 22:52:28 *** Osai_ is now known as Osai 22:52:36 <Elukka> all the methods of transport are real, though 22:52:47 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has quit [Quit: ecke] 22:52:49 <Elukka> as are cities growing, industries being built and forests growing 22:52:50 <Belugas> so who is to say what could be realistic as much as openttd is? 22:52:56 <xerxesdaphat> what i want, that would annoy the hell out of all the grand-scale ottdcoop-types, is a shunting system, turntables, with trains that don't magically turn around on a single piece of track 22:53:03 <Sacro> Belugas: l can rattle up a bridge in an afternoon 22:53:07 <Belugas> the cities are growing VERY reaslitaly indeed 22:53:10 <xerxesdaphat> that's what the `advanced settings' is for though 22:53:12 <Elukka> could you reword that? 22:53:23 <Belugas> the industries are prodcing very realiscally 22:53:34 <Elukka> i didnt say everything is 100% realistic 22:53:36 <Elukka> in fact, nothing is 22:53:42 *** petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.6.3 | Website: *.openttd.org (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence 22:53:46 <Elukka> sensible costs wouldnt mean that either 22:53:47 <Belugas> and they do not ask for merchandise, they just accept whatever we throw at them 22:53:51 <Elukka> hey, it's an interesting discussion! 22:53:52 <Belugas> very realistally 22:54:12 <Eddi|zuHause> lucky enough, i only ever talk about "realism" 22:54:22 <Belugas> what about stations? passengers waiting for MONTHS to climb a bus... 22:54:24 <Belugas> come one.... 22:54:49 <Elukka> as openttd is based on real transport industry and has all the same basic things they do and the same methods of transports, realism in there would mean everything would be balanced and every method of transport would be viable 22:55:11 <xerxesdaphat> petern: bwahaha 22:55:29 <Belugas> guess what, the game is not balanced, at all, so it is not as based on real transport as you would like it to be 22:56:04 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly, the main problem is not that the game is not "realistic", but it is not balanced 22:56:06 <Elukka> i'd like balance 22:56:16 <Eddi|zuHause> but balance has nothing to do with "realism" 22:56:18 <Elukka> eddi, i'm suggesting real life is a good basis to balance it on 22:56:21 <Elukka> as real life balances itself 22:56:23 <Belugas> let say thatthe game borrows from reality, instead of being based on 22:57:18 *** Osai is now known as Osai_ 22:57:43 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:57:54 <Elukka> would you not find it fun if trucks, buses, aircraft from small commuters to massive jets, ships of all sizes and all kinds of trains were viable and worked well? 22:58:20 <Belugas> what do you mean? 22:58:34 <Elukka> in real life, all these are used and are financially viable in different situations 22:58:46 <Elukka> thus, if you based the balance on real life, everything would have their uses 22:59:02 *** ctibor [~ctibor@77.48.228.43] has joined #openttd 22:59:02 <Elukka> you could make breaks from reality where it would not be fun 22:59:23 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: it's the right intention, but the wrong argument 22:59:31 <Belugas> let see... planes will have to leave, even if they are not full. Yoi will get bankrupted if you could not service fast enough the stations 22:59:49 <el_en> but not everything is viable in real life either. for example, trains mostly aren't. 22:59:58 <Belugas> planes speeds will have to be adjusted, as well as trucks 23:00:02 <Elukka> there are huge amounts of trains in the world 23:00:13 <Belugas> we would need to lower the time speed too 23:00:24 <Elukka> not necessarily 23:00:36 <Belugas> well... that's the price to pay 23:00:42 <Elukka> that's one thing i see as a good break from reality, it wouldnt be any fun if new vehicles never appeared 23:01:14 <Belugas> you are diverging formthe goal for the same exactly reason i'm not fund of adding realism 23:01:19 <Belugas> it would not be as fun 23:01:28 <Elukka> diverting from what goal? 23:01:46 *** Osai_ is now known as Osai 23:02:01 <Elukka> i was arguing why, in the correct places, realism would in fact be fun 23:02:34 <Elukka> i think it will have to be considered whether any new feature is actually fun 23:03:02 <Elukka> realism and fun are not mutually exclusive 23:03:09 <Belugas> indeed not 23:03:16 <Eddi|zuHause> Elukka: "realism" is not a goal, and most times not even a means, at best it is a side product. 23:03:29 <Belugas> i never said the opposite... that is what it means by adding to the game play 23:03:41 <Elukka> basing the balance on realism would increase realism, but it wouldnt be the main goal 23:06:36 *** lneckel [~lneckel@189.4.116.188] has joined #openttd 23:06:46 <lneckel> hello someone 23:06:49 <Belugas> nope 23:06:51 <Belugas> hello 23:06:52 <lneckel> I need some help 23:06:56 <Belugas> me too 23:07:05 <lneckel> someone speak portuguese here 23:07:08 <lneckel> ? 23:07:16 <Belugas> DigitalFox does 23:07:22 <Belugas> dunno if he's around 23:07:30 <Belugas> nope 23:07:34 <lneckel> hum... 23:07:39 <el_en> true realism would be that you are given a pre-built network of trains, road vehicles and all, which are taking more money than they produce. and your task is to close down lines, sell away vehicles and do whatever necessary to rescue the company. 23:08:55 <lneckel> hey... how can I make my dedicated server write a welcome message when a player join on it? 23:09:17 <Elukka> i think instead of playing a single manager, you're really a weird hivemind amalgamation of all the chairmen of that company ever :D 23:09:24 <thingwath> no fun with the real world, it's already too fucked up. 23:09:24 <Belugas> i think the answer can be found on the wiki 23:09:31 <Elukka> that's another acceptable break from reality 23:09:38 <lneckel> i canÂŽt find... ¬¬ 23:09:51 <Belugas> look for scrip sowmthing 23:10:04 <lneckel> yeah, i've done it 23:10:06 <Belugas> i can't find either, but it's because i do not have the luxury to search 23:10:13 <lneckel> heheheheh 23:10:24 <lneckel> i was searching and trying some stuff 23:10:37 <lneckel> but i couldn't do nothing 23:10:44 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest44 23:10:46 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:11:14 <Elukka> now to make a northeast corridor map 23:11:57 <Eddi|zuHause> lneckel: most likely, by modifying a file in the scripts directory 23:12:14 <lneckel> hum... nice... I'll try it 23:12:16 <lneckel> thanks 23:13:18 <lneckel> ahn... where is it 23:13:19 <lneckel> ? 23:14:29 <Rubidium> what version of OpenTTD are you using? 23:14:39 <lneckel> 0.6.3 23:15:14 <Eddi|zuHause> next to the data directory, where you put your original TTD files 23:15:51 *** Guest44 [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:16:20 <Rubidium> hmm... there isn't a script for 'on-join' it seems 23:17:53 <Rubidium> that basically means that you need to run an autopilot 23:18:01 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest45 23:18:02 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 23:18:26 <Rubidium> hmm, oh... there's no example file 23:18:34 <lneckel> hum... sorry, but... what is an autopilot? 23:18:41 <Rubidium> lneckel: never mind ;) 23:18:46 <lneckel> ok... Oo 23:18:54 <Rubidium> locate your openttd binary (openttd.exe) 23:19:00 <lneckel> ok 23:19:11 <lneckel> easy 23:19:16 <Rubidium> then make a directory named 'scripts' in the same directory where openttd.exe is 23:19:20 <Rubidium> go into that directory 23:19:31 <lneckel> done 23:19:33 <lneckel> ... 23:19:34 <Rubidium> and make a file that is called on_server_connect.scr 23:19:39 <lneckel> ok... 23:19:43 <Rubidium> now open that file 23:20:00 <lneckel> ok 23:20:25 <Rubidium> and add to following to that file: say "Hello client" 23:20:41 <lneckel> hum... 23:20:47 <Rubidium> should say 'hello client' to all clients when someone joins 23:21:15 <lneckel> i've tried this before, but i didn,t read about a "scripts" directories... thanks, I'll try... 23:22:09 <lneckel> OOOOOOO.... it works... thanks, very much! 23:23:52 *** Guest45 [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:25:05 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.130] has joined #openttd 23:25:40 *** Roest [~schurade@p54B9C5AC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:32:01 <lneckel> hey, how can i change the servers language 23:32:16 <lneckel> that little flag that appears on the game... 23:33:12 <Rubidium> http://wiki.openttd.org/wiki/index.php/Openttd.cfg -> server_lang 23:41:20 <lneckel> thanks 23:42:24 *** lneckel [~lneckel@189.4.116.188] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 23:43:48 *** Roujin [~chatzilla@mnch-5d85dafe.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 23:44:24 <Roujin> hi everyone :) 23:45:54 <Elukka> o/ 23:47:02 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:18 *** Mortal [~mortal@0x573a3da2.odnqu1.static.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #openttd 23:48:26 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 23:50:13 <Sacro> uo 23:50:17 <Sacro> ö 23:51:04 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15302 /trunk/bin/scripts/ (3 files): -Add: example file for on_server_connect.scr and document it in the scripts readme 23:53:43 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #openttd 23:54:43 <el_en> CONGRATULATIONS NYU.EDU FOR YOUR CAPS LOCK KEY. 23:55:04 <Tefad> larl 23:55:22 <el_en> or is it "congratulations .. on"? 23:55:53 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-140-66-59.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:56:33 <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say "for" 23:56:59 <Tefad> or 23:57:09 <thingwath> all caps and correct grammar? 23:57:10 <Tefad> 'on your ability to use your..." 23:57:12 <Tefad> penis 23:57:33 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:39 *** DephNet[Paul] [~paul@host86-140-66-59.range86-140.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 23:59:56 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]