Log for #openttd on 1st March 2009:
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00:08:44  <Eddi|zuHause> <DaleStan> That said, thingwath's right. Joe Random doesn't read URLs. Click links and (if you're lucky) search, but read? <- but it would be easier to write out a "random" url and have it point to something actually existing
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00:09:13  <Eddi|zuHause> like in a forum post where someone asks about signals, one could type, and it would be the actual link
00:10:15  <SmatZ> I think Eddi has the point, but I can't do anything with that
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00:35:57  <amixppc> can i wish for something?
00:36:10  <amixppc> like for trams etc
00:36:32  <SmatZ> you may have a wish...
00:36:34  <amixppc> would be nice if there was a button for creating one single track tramtracks
00:37:15  <amixppc> also a button for trams togo back etc
00:37:26  <amixppc> like in japan
00:37:49  <amixppc> they just go to a point and go back again
00:37:57  <amixppc> there are no loops at ends etc
00:38:18  <Aali> just build trains
00:38:33  <amixppc> trains are borring
00:38:39  <amixppc> traintrams are cool
00:38:50  <Belugas> i fail to understand
00:38:59  <Aali> okay, I'm looking forward to your patch :)
00:42:19  <amixppc> hehe
00:42:42  <amixppc>
00:42:45  <amixppc> see
00:43:21  <Brokkoli> u can do that
00:43:30  <amixppc> ;p
00:43:52  <Brokkoli> trams can turn around without big loops
00:49:20  <Belugas> i see lots of lines.
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01:00:30  <amixppc> Belugas: yes
01:00:38  <amixppc> tram there goes fast
01:00:43  <amixppc> 100km/t etc
01:03:06  <SmatZ> 100km/hour? that's amazing
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01:05:59  <nicfer> hey, OTTD is already a city building game!
01:06:42  <nicfer> just build the roads, put some bus stations on them and let them grow!
01:06:46  <thingwath> for a tram, fast means that you can't outrun it.
01:06:46  <SmatZ> :)
01:07:00  <Eddi|zuHause> those are hybrid trams, they count as trains (with signalling and stuff) when going that fast
01:08:07  <thingwath> any other big differences?
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01:11:46  <Eddi|zuHause> what do you mean?
01:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> they don't magically morph into engine and wagons when hitting railway tracks
01:12:30  <thingwath> well, if the difference is only the signalling
01:12:53  <Eddi|zuHause> the difference is the whole law about operating a train line vs. operating a tram line
01:13:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and "only" signalling includes a hell lot of stuff
01:13:09  <thingwath> I mean technical differences
01:13:33  <SmatZ> our trains are allowed to go 50/60 km/h ... and the technical limit is 65 km/h iirc :)
01:13:34  <Eddi|zuHause> like security system for checking if the driver is asleep
01:13:38  <thingwath> even trams can use some basic signalling (Liberec - Jablonec line)
01:13:40  <SmatZ> *trams
01:13:46  <Eddi|zuHause> or security systems when the driver skips a red signal
01:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> plus, on rail lines, the power supply is usually different from a tram line
01:14:30  <Eddi|zuHause> tram lines typically use DC, while rail lines are either diesel or AC
01:14:36  <SmatZ> thingwath: reminds me of tram crash in Ostrava...
01:14:48  <Eddi|zuHause> so there are DC/AC and DC/Diesel hybrid trams
01:15:38  <Nite_Owl> a long tram with a rather high capacity is a good idea - no more 'subway' suggestions
01:15:57  <SmatZ> it's not hard to code such grf ;)
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01:16:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Nite_Owl: that is possible to code already, but why do you think it would stop the requests for subways?
01:17:56  <thingwath> SmatZ: ;simmilar accidents happen even with trains...
01:17:57  <Nite_Owl> the main reason for the subway discussion is the difficulty of getting a high number of inner city passengers around to toher parts of the same city - a role usually reserved for subways
01:18:04  * SmatZ remembers when he used "Metro Cammell DMU" as metro in TTO ;)
01:18:13  <Nite_Owl> *other
01:18:52  <SmatZ> thingwath: "kterÃœ si spletl dny a myslel si, ÅŸe je neděle." sad :( luckily nobody died
01:19:50  <Nite_Owl> Hiroshima Trams had a high capacity tram (450) but it was short lived
01:20:26  <Eddi|zuHause> the tram or the tram set?
01:20:35  <Nite_Owl> tram set
01:20:59  <Nite_Owl> oh sorry - the tram in the set was short lived
01:21:14  <thingwath> hm, two T3 trams in Brno have almost infinite capacity, usually :D
01:21:16  <SmatZ> thingwath: this one is more serious :(
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01:22:57  <Nite_Owl> the next highest capacity I can remember for another tram was around 200 give or take
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01:27:08  <SmatZ> thingwath: :-D I fully understand that "unlimited capacity theorem"
01:27:52  <SmatZ> when there is a space for 200 people, adding one human more is reduces the space for every other by 0.5% ... nobody will notice that :)
01:28:49  <thingwath> somehow, it doesn't work with 13T/14T trams.
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01:29:40  <SmatZ> :(
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01:31:36  <thingwath> and of course, it won't work if the human added is drunk and stinks. :)
01:31:55  <thingwath> which is far too common :-/
01:32:06  <SmatZ> :-x
01:32:15  <Nite_Owl> what if he stinks but is not drunk
01:32:26  <SmatZ> yeah, half of the wagon is full of people
01:32:42  <SmatZ> while in the second half is only one home less person :-p
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01:33:03  <thingwath> Nite_Owl: rare case.
01:33:20  <Nite_Owl> or is drunk but does not stink - a clean, wholesome alcoholic
01:33:31  <thingwath> like me.
01:33:32  <thingwath> :o)
01:34:21  <thingwath> but there are different rules for night buses :)
01:34:44  <SmatZ> :-D
01:35:26  <SmatZ> I wonder how those people can live
01:35:29  <thingwath>
01:35:35  <SmatZ> when I can't stay 1 meter from them...
01:35:41  <SmatZ> because of the smell
01:35:42  <thingwath> buses and buses of drunk people! :-)
01:36:18  <SmatZ> :-)
01:37:49  <SmatZ> I like our anthem ;) but in the version, it doesn't sund that nice :-D
01:40:54  <thingwath> don't drink and sing :)
01:41:35  <thingwath> and it seems, that Nad Tatrou
 part is missing. :o)
01:41:41  <SmatZ> yeah :)
01:42:06  <SmatZ> I missed that part too... though it seems someone was trying to sing it :)
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01:44:11  <SmatZ> eeeeeeeeeej macejko... :)
01:46:03  <SmatZ> and SSSR anthem :-D
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01:49:00  <thingwath> I guess it's line 93 (99 now), others are more conservative, I think :)
01:49:16  <SmatZ> :-D
01:49:35  <thingwath> line 93 ends at halt "Kolejní" ;)
01:50:20  <SmatZ> not surprising at all ;)
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08:25:47  <planetmaker> morning
08:26:39  <db48x> hello planetmaker
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09:29:41  <el_en> h, W
09:29:53  <Wolf01> hello
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09:30:55  <Wolf01> gah, new flash10 videos are not supported by my pda... I can't see any of the new youtube videos :(
09:33:53  <Wolf01> to grf artists: I was looking at speedpaint videos, why not make one showing how do you draw a grf?
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10:43:03  <TSC> !password
10:43:10  <TSC> Bah
10:43:14  <TSC> Wrong place (:
10:43:45  <Eddi|zuHause> where's glx when you need him?
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12:09:01  <el_en> what's the first day of week in germany?
12:09:19  <smeding> monntag
12:09:23  <smeding> or montag, i forget
12:09:36  <smeding> oh wait you mean if it's sunday or monday
12:09:39  <smeding> heh, no clue tbhj
12:09:46  <smeding> you shouldn't ask these things in the morning
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12:09:56  <Eddi|zuHause> tomorrow...
12:09:57  <Eddi|zuHause> ;)
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12:12:55  <el_en> i wonder if glibc localedata for de_DE having "first_weekday 1" is a human error.
12:13:12  <Eddi|zuHause> why?
12:13:19  <Eddi|zuHause> 1 is Monday
12:13:29  <Eddi|zuHause> at least in crontabs
12:13:45  <Eddi|zuHause> 0 or 7 is sunday
12:13:46  <el_en> because 1 means sunday and 2 is monday in that context, but there seems to be confusion about that.
12:14:59  <el_en> (confusion is not surprising)
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12:16:18  <Alberth> it would be too easy to stick to already available conventions, of course
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13:38:28  <maristo> how can i add another town names in game? in what file are they described?
13:40:02  <el_en> existing town name generators cannot be changed.
13:40:24  <maristo> :(
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13:40:44  <Rubidium> maristo:
13:41:52  <kasper> hey there, is it possible to fund towns, just the way industry's can be funded?
13:41:54  <maristo> is it possuble to assign new toen names by adding grf-file?
13:42:05  <maristo> town*
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13:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause> you cannot "extend" an existing town name generator by grf, you can only completely replace it
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13:51:46  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: Can I ask you (once more) to go through the German translation and make a list of strings which need improvement?
13:51:59  <planetmaker> There are certainly things I'll miss :)
13:55:06  <planetmaker> I went through strings ingame, especially the tool tips... but well...
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13:58:17  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_BORDER_FREEFORM                                             :{BLACK}beliebig <- possibly with capital letter? (all other texts around that start with a captial letter)
14:01:04  <planetmaker> All others are a noun ;) But that doesn't really matter in this context, I guess. Yeah
14:01:31  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_0172_SAVE_GAME_ABANDON_GAME                                 :{BLACK}Spiel speichern, Spiel laden, Spiel verlassen, Beenden <- maybe "abbrechen" is better than "verlassen"? it is always a little confusing to me what exactly the difference between "verlassen" and "beenden" is [there must be another entry somewhere for the menu entry]
14:01:48  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_LEAVING                                                     :{LTBLUE}verlassend <-- possibly "Abfahrt" instead?
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14:02:40  <planetmaker> that's a good change, yes
14:02:57  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_HEADING_FOR_TRAIN_DEPOT                                     :{ORANGE}Unterwegs zu {TOWN} Zugdepot <- "zum Depot"? [also following: "im Depot"]
14:03:31  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: in that case... it is an interesting information which depot is headed to, I think
14:03:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean the "zu" -> "zum"
14:03:49  <Eddi|zuHause> "in" -> "im"
14:03:51  <Eddi|zuHause> change
14:03:59  <Eddi|zuHause> the rest was just my laziness ;)
14:04:19  <Brokkoli> zu is better
14:04:22  <planetmaker> hm... Rather: "Unterwegs zum Depot {TOWN}?
14:04:27  <Brokkoli> noo
14:04:30  <Brokkoli> zu
14:04:51  <planetmaker> Unterwegs zum Bonn Zugdepot?
14:04:55  <planetmaker> That's wrong German
14:05:12  <planetmaker> Unterwegs zum Depot Bonn is correct
14:06:13  <Alberth> Unterwegs zum Depot im Bonn ? (sounds better to me)
14:06:43  <Eddi|zuHause> "in", but yes, that could work
14:07:35  <planetmaker> sounds alright
14:07:53  <planetmaker> but then it could also be "...zum Depot bei Bonn"
14:08:26  <Brokkoli> as the depot itself is called "Bonn Zugdepot"
14:08:33  <Brokkoli> it should stay as it is
14:08:40  <Brokkoli> everything else would be confusing
14:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_VEHICLES_TIP                             :{BLACK}Anzahl an Fahrzeugen (Straßenfahrzeuge, ZÃŒge, Schiffe und Flugzeuge/Helikopter) <- "Anzahl der Fahrzeuge"? (and next string)
14:09:29  <Brokkoli> Anzahl an Fahrzeugen is correct
14:10:13  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not about whether it is correct, it is about whether it sounds good.
14:10:20  <Brokkoli> it does
14:10:23  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_PERFORMANCE_DETAIL_LOAN_TIP                                 :{BLACK}Das  von dieser Firma in Anspruch genommene Darlehen <- superfluous space
14:11:08  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_NEWGRF_SETTINGS_BUTTON_TIP                                  :{BLACK}NewGRF Einstellungen anzeigen <- the other strings use "NewGRF-Einstellungen"
14:11:38  <planetmaker> we should use only either "Kredit" or "Darlehen", I think
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14:12:55  <planetmaker> as everything is "Kredit" we can stick with that, I guess
14:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_BORDER_TYPE                                                 :{BLACK}Karten RÀnder: <- ???
14:13:33  <planetmaker> I guess not :)
14:14:27  <Eddi|zuHause> the airport list looks a little odd, but i never use airports...
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14:14:43  <Brokkoli> KartenrÀnder
14:14:47  <Brokkoli> in one word
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14:16:15  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_DATE_TINY                                                   :{STRING}-{STRING}-{NUM} <- where does that appear? and what do the "-" mean there?
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14:17:08  <planetmaker> I've no idea :)
14:17:55  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_AI_SETTINGS_BUTTON                                          :{BLACK}Einstellungen fÃŒr die KI
14:17:56  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_AI_SETTINGS_BUTTON_TIP                                      :{BLACK}Einstellungen fÃŒr KI anzeigen
14:18:10  <Eddi|zuHause> is the "Tipp" some kind of parody on the name? :p
14:18:17  <planetmaker> it's the iso date format
14:18:35  <Eddi|zuHause> no, that's what the STR_DATE_ISO is for
14:18:46  <Eddi|zuHause> (it reverses the order)
14:18:51  <planetmaker> src/strings.cpp:                                buff = FormatTinyOrISODate(buff, GetInt32(&argv), STR_DATE_TINY, last);
14:18:56  <planetmaker> ^^only occurance in the code
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14:19:53  <glx> [15:16:19] <Eddi|zuHause> STR_DATE_TINY                                                   :{STRING}-{STRING}-{NUM} <- where does that appear? and what do the "-" mean there? <-- savegame name
14:20:24  <planetmaker> :) ty. So we shouldn't change it, I think
14:21:05  <Rubidium> planetmaker: unless you want 20022002 to appear as date
14:21:25  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: is that a setting somewhere? my games always used the long date format
14:21:27  <planetmaker> :) No, I just want to sprinkle in a few Umlauts: À Ö ß
14:21:41  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: advanced settings... ui I think
14:21:58  <planetmaker> iso, long, and something else I forgot
14:23:24  <Eddi|zuHause> but still, why the "-"? i am still not sure what appears in that "tiny" date, but "." seems to be more appropriate
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14:23:56  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: filename like blubber Transports 2008-02-13.sav
14:24:09  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: that's the iso format
14:24:18  <planetmaker> uh... no, please no . in filenames.
14:24:46  <planetmaker> at least in places where it doesn't belong
14:25:03  <Eddi|zuHause> 2008-02-13 is a valid date format, but 13-02-2008 is not
14:25:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and the "long" format had "." in it for ages
14:26:21  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONTENT_NO_ZLIB_SUB                                         :{WHITE}... herunterladen von Inhalten nicht möglich! <- missed an "Erweiterungen" change
14:26:26  <planetmaker> true and fair enough.
14:26:34  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONTENT_NAME_CAPTION_TIP                                    :{BLACK}Name des Inhaltes <- here, too
14:27:01  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, plenty more of those
14:28:14  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONTENT_FILTER_TITLE                                        :{BLACK}Tag/name filter: <- 3 words, and so many mistakes in it...
14:28:50  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't even look at this part of the file...
14:28:55  <Eddi|zuHause> it makes me really depressed...
14:29:12  <SmatZ> is this from german.txt?
14:29:20  <planetmaker> STR_CONTENT_DETAIL_TITLE <-- dafÃŒr brauche ich 'mal 'nen guten Vorschlag
14:29:27  <planetmaker> SmatZ: yeah
14:29:35  <Eddi|zuHause> STR_CONTENT_DOWNLOAD_INITIALISE                                 :{WHITE}Dateien anfordernd... <- grrrr...
14:29:43  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: there are several instances with "Inhalt" still. Replacing them
14:29:54  <SmatZ> sometimes it happens english original is used in translation... I don't know why though :)
14:30:04  <SmatZ> most likely translator's fault
14:30:05  <planetmaker> better than "{SILVER}Erweiterungs-Info" needed :)
14:30:21  <planetmaker> SmatZ: if a string is missing in translation
14:30:26  <Eddi|zuHause> "Beschreibung"?
14:30:36  <Eddi|zuHause> "Beschreibung der Erweiterung"?
14:31:06  <planetmaker> I think it's a button. So we don't have huge space
14:32:36  <Eddi|zuHause> when i look at the window, there should be plenty of space
14:32:43  <planetmaker> k
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14:33:06  <Firzen> Hi. May anyone help me getting my dedicated Linux Server work?
14:33:15  <planetmaker> oh, there. Yes. much space
14:33:32  <planetmaker> Beschreibung der Erweiterung it is then.
14:34:30  <Firzen> It says openttd: error while loading shared libraries when I try to run it.
14:35:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Feature request: a difference in icon for things i do not have and things i have older versions of (in the content download window)
14:35:30  <planetmaker> Firzen: that's a problem. You're missing some library. Find out which and install it
14:35:46  <SmatZ> Firzen: or compile ottd yourself
14:35:53  <planetmaker> ^^or that :)
14:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause> another feature request: URLs in the description need some kind of word-wrapping on non-space-characters (e.g. "/", "&", "?")
14:37:24  <planetmaker> also content window: Replace "Sie haben dies noch nicht zum Herunterladen ausgewÀhlt" by "Diese ist noch nicht zum Herunterladen ausgewÀhlt"?
14:38:25  <Firzen> It says:
14:38:39  <Firzen> I use debian
14:38:59  <SmatZ> hmm why does dedicated server need libsdl
14:39:01  <planetmaker> Firzen: that's only used, for the GUI. If you compile yourself with --enable-dedicated you don't need it
14:39:14  <planetmaker> SmatZ: downloads are non-dedicated afaik
14:39:22  <Rubidium> SmatZ: because he didn't compile a dedicated server
14:39:50  <SmatZ> planetmaker: Rubidium: yeah :)
14:39:53  <Firzen> I don't know how to do that <.< I'm not used to Linux.
14:40:09  <Firzen> Proud that I'm able to login. xD
14:40:36  <SmatZ> Firzen:
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14:41:26  <SmatZ> but you can try without SDL libs when you want to run dedicated :)
14:42:12  <planetmaker> hm... what's better: "Gesamtgröße des Downloads" or "Gesamtgröße der Downloads"?
14:42:37  <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: it is probably easier to just install SDL on the server
14:42:42  <Alberth> SmatZ: that only works for a build of a dedicated server, not for his current binary
14:42:45  <SmatZ> hehe :)
14:42:57  <Firzen> Eddi|zuHause: I think so, too ^^
14:42:58  <SmatZ> Alberth: yeah
14:43:52  <SmatZ> planetmaker: can't you use something with 'von'? :)
14:44:01  <Firzen> Eddi|zuHause: You know where I can get the library?
14:44:27  <Eddi|zuHause> in whatever packet manager your system uses
14:44:45  <pound_fool> Well, it's Debian, right? So "apt"
14:44:46  <planetmaker> SmatZ: in this context it doesn't really fit IMO. One could say "Gesamtgröße vom Download", but ...
14:44:51  <Alberth> Firzen: probably something with apt-get, see also Wiki page
14:44:54  <pound_fool> try "man apt-get"
14:45:07  <pound_fool> (to bring up the manual page)
14:45:12  <planetmaker> "...des Downloads" or "...der Downloads" is 'better' German :)
14:45:13  <Eddi|zuHause> out of the blue i'd say "apt-get install libsdl"
14:45:26  <SmatZ> planetmaker: ok :-)
14:45:41  <planetmaker> it's just a question is it one download or several :)
14:45:57  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: i can't really decide... i think "des" is fine
14:46:42  <Eddi|zuHause> or try "Downloadgesamtgröße" :p
14:47:08  <Firzen> "Gesamtgröße der Downloads" sounds best
14:47:27  <SmatZ> english.txt use "Total download size", not "Total downloads size" or so :)
14:47:55  <Firzen> Though... depends on how many files are downloaded
14:48:00  <Firzen> Always one or more=
14:48:04  <Firzen> ?
14:48:12  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: i think it's not a noun in the english version ;)
14:49:03  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: :o) I admire I failed to parse that sentence gramatically
14:50:03  <Firzen> Any way to find out Linux distributen the root uses? I have doubts that it's debian as it doesn't now apt and apt-get
14:50:16  <Firzen> distribution*
14:50:45  <Alberth> Hmm, could it be that the vehicle list code is not handling rtl languages? :D
14:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe something completely different: "Zum herunterladen ausgewÀhlt:"
14:51:03  <Alberth> Firzen: I hope the same as his users
14:51:09  <FauxFaux> Heh.
14:51:18  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: where you want that?
14:51:36  <Eddi|zuHause> instead of "Gesamtgröße"
14:51:43  <planetmaker> instead of "Gesamtgröße des Downloads"? Hm...
14:51:44  <Alberth> Firzen: not in a robust way, different distributions have different ideas about how to do that
14:51:55  <Alberth> Firzen: do you have 'yum' ?
14:52:09  <Firzen> Alberth: I don't know what yum is so... I think no.
14:52:13  <planetmaker> But it would avoid "Download" - which isn't used elsewhere and not a 'proper' German word :)
14:52:32  <planetmaker> well... it is used. In the description
14:52:43  <Alberth> Firzen: type 'yum help'. You should get a page of help text
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14:52:58  <Firzen> We use "Download" in proper German language.
14:52:59  <planetmaker> btw. What do you think of "Schlagworte" for 'tags'?
14:53:03  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm just not entirely sure if it is a "nounified" verb here, and thus would be written with captital letter
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14:53:30  <planetmaker> Firzen: yeah. I think "Gesamtgröße der Downloads" is okay...
14:53:41  <Firzen> planetmaker: It is.
14:54:01  <Firzen> "Zum herunterladen ausgewÀhlt:" means chosen for download
14:54:49  <Firzen> yum help doesn't work. Unknown command.
14:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: does the server have some kind of admin that you could ask?
14:55:41  <Ammler> [15:52] <planetmaker> btw. What do you think of "Schlagworte" for 'tags'? <-- aren't those Stichwörter?
14:56:09  <pound_fool> So I'm new to this and trying to get my GRFs set up. Do I need to pass any specific parameters to the #openttdcoop 7.3 grf package?
14:56:11  <Alberth> Firzen: 'locate apt-get' may give you a location of the program
14:56:13  <planetmaker> Could also be used. I just queried for a proper translation of "Tags" :)
14:56:13  <Firzen> Eddi|zuHause: Admin yes, ask no. He has less knowledge of Linux than me.
14:56:24  <planetmaker> s/Admin/Ammler/ :D
14:56:25  <pound_fool> I'm trying to find if there's info about this on the wiki, but haven't yet.
14:56:34  <planetmaker> nvm
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14:57:00  <Firzen> "locate: /var/lib/locatedb: file or directory not found"
14:57:07  <planetmaker> but "Stichworte" probably is better and more widely used. "Schlagworte" is kind dying out :)
14:57:12  <Alberth> frsh install eh ?
14:57:12  <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: but he must have some kind of knowledge of what was written on the install CD
14:57:42  <Firzen> Eddi|zuHause: It's a strato root server.
14:57:46  <Alberth> s/frsh/fresh/
14:57:50  <Firzen> Eddi|zuHause: He didn't install anything.
14:58:41  <Eddi|zuHause> so, does strato have a website which explains how to install stuff?
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14:58:57  <Firzen> Eddi|zuHause: Maybe. I'll see.
14:59:15  <Alberth> Firzen: try 'ls /sbin/apt*' or 'ls /usr/sbin/apt*' (you may not have sbin in your path)
15:00:03  <SmatZ> Alberth: as a regular user, he probably doesn't
15:00:09  <SmatZ> arrr....
15:00:14  <SmatZ> you just wrote that
15:00:18  <SmatZ> shame on me
15:00:22  * SmatZ out
15:01:36  <Firzen> file or directory not found
15:01:39  <Firzen> in both cases
15:01:45  <Rubidium> Firzen: are you 'root'?
15:01:48  <Firzen> yes
15:01:54  <Rubidium> what does whoami give?
15:02:05  <Firzen> root
15:02:40  <Rubidium> and there's no apt?
15:02:52  <Firzen> seems so
15:03:00  <el_en> Firzen: cat /etc/redhat-release
15:03:44  <Rubidium> is there dpkg and (curl or wget or lynx or links)?
15:03:54  <Firzen> not found
15:04:05  <Eddi|zuHause> is there "rpm"?
15:04:24  <Firzen> Well, I searched now for man, info and help about apt and also apt itself, it seems to be totally unknown
15:04:48  <Firzen> Yes,, there is RPM 4.4.2
15:05:17  <Rubidium> so it isn't a debian-alike one
15:05:28  <el_en> is it even a linux?
15:05:39  <Firzen> Yes.
15:05:47  <Eddi|zuHause> it could be suse, then it would have "yast"
15:06:08  <Firzen> It has yast
15:06:09  * Rubidium wonders why he only say debian in the backlog
15:06:26  <Firzen> Admin said me debian
15:06:27  <Eddi|zuHause> fine, then use yast ;)
15:06:35  <Firzen> k.
15:06:37  <Firzen> How? :D
15:06:51  <Alberth> Firzen: man yast
15:06:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it should have a mildly descriptive menu ;)
15:07:37  <Firzen> yeah.
15:07:39  <Eddi|zuHause> if you find the menu confusing, you could also try to use "zypper"
15:08:03  <Firzen> So I shall install the missing lib now with yast?
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15:08:52  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, yast should be able to install sdl
15:09:29  <glx> and slap admin :)
15:09:54  <Firzen> Yes. xD
15:10:11  <Firzen> Thanks for finding out my Linux distribution. >.<
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15:15:13  <Firzen> I think it crashed ._.
15:21:11  <Alberth> Firzen: many tools do not have progress bars or so, they simply return the prompt when done, and say nothing while they do their work.
15:22:05  <Firzen> But Initialization of the Software Installer needs more than 5 Minutes?
15:22:42  <Alberth> Firzen: you have another terminal? then run 'top' in that one, to see what the system is spending its CPU time on
15:23:08  <Alberth> ('q' to quit top :) )
15:24:09  <Alberth> Firzen: May depend on how slow your network is. Can you see network activity?
15:24:27  <Alberth> (LEDS on your modem/router eg)
15:25:10  <Firzen> It's 2MB/s
15:25:28  <Alberth> Firzen: another possibility is that it detected an ancient system, and is now busy updating to the current versions
15:25:59  <Firzen> It spends about 62% CPU on y2base
15:26:31  <Alberth> Fedora does something like 10MB+/week updates, so after a 'fresh' CD install, I needed to install 200MB+ updates first
15:27:00  <Firzen> k I'll let it initialize ^^
15:27:13  <Firzen> See what happens after 10-30 Minutes
15:27:15  <Alberth> Firzen: no idea what y2base is.
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15:28:45  <Alberth> Firzen: Google thinks: “command line version” of YaST is called y2base
15:28:59  <Alberth> so it's busy :)
15:29:01  <Firzen> k
15:29:22  <Firzen> I'll go take a shower now, then return and tell if soemething happened. :D
15:30:41  <Firzen> And if there is another uncertainness of some german translation you may ask me - I'm german ^^
15:32:41  <Eddi|zuHause> y2base is a module of yast
15:33:31  <glx> Firzen: germans are already talking about that ;)
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15:35:00  <Alberth> Apparently, TB changed his mind about the foreign language to speak today :)
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15:35:39  <Eddi|zuHause> wtf are you talking about?
15:37:44  <Alberth> Last week, he spoke about everybody having to speak a foreign language here, swedish I believe
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15:58:06  <Firzen> It's ready :D
15:58:43  <Alberth> Rubidium: does resizing any chance of working atm (ie with the resize box at the left, and resizing to the left/bottom?)
15:59:18  <Alberth> Firzen: so now you have a long list of updates to apply?
15:59:46  <Alberth> Rubidium: euh in a rtl context
15:59:51  <Firzen> 9 entries
16:00:28  <Rubidium> Alberth: no idea; I guess that needs
16:00:30  <Alberth> Firzen: hmm, so it did some db building most likely the first time
16:00:33  <Rubidium> Alberth: no idea; I guess that needs 'hacks'
16:00:49  <Firzen> But there is a Search function
16:02:10  <Firzen> Will I have to search for or only for SDL?
16:02:28  <Eddi|zuHause> searching for sdl should suffice
16:03:29  <Eddi|zuHause> you can search for "" if you check the "search in 'provides'" field
16:04:05  <Alberth> Rubidium: am busy building a widget array generator, where it is easy to swap left and right. (diff is 41000 bytes). In 'normal' mode, I get the original widget array exactly, in swapped mode, it runs, but window updates make a lot of mess.
16:04:35  <Alberth> Firzen: if you want to build from source, you most likely also need some sdl-development package
16:04:58  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: we decided that he does not want to build from source ;)
16:05:32  <Alberth> We should also decide that he should run OpenTTD server as root ;)
16:05:44  <Alberth> +not (of course)
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16:11:18  <Rubidium> Alberth: you mean that many window update refresh the wrong part of the window or so? Or is it the resizing that doesn't work quite yet?
16:13:42  <glx> Alberth: be sure your generator generates widgets using the right index
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16:28:10  <el_en> Alberth: running openttd as root is recommended.
16:28:55  <Alberth> el_en: sure, getting hacked is also recommended, isn't it?
16:29:21  <el_en> yes, it is.
16:30:14  <Alberth> el_en: normal deamons don't even run as root, why would OpenTTD need root?
16:30:19  <glx> I think we shoud introduce a backdoor in openttd :)
16:31:06  <el_en> Alberth: running as root avoids all sorts of nasty errors about missing permissions, etc.
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16:32:06  <Alberth> el_en: those permissions exist to protect you from yourself.
16:32:19  <el_en> Alberth: I once wrote a patch which would have made OTTD show an error message and exit if run as root.  The patch was rejected.
16:32:38  <el_en> Alberth: Conclusion: Running as root is recommended by the developers.
16:35:11  <el_en> I also wrote a patch which would have shown an error message if _not_ run as root.  It was rejected too.
16:36:50  <petern> ah, el_en-logic
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16:40:40  <Alberth> well, it confirms that you should run OpenTTD as 'nobody' :D
16:41:01  <Alberth> Rubidium: glx:
16:41:33  <Alberth> top one is shot directly after opening, second one after trying to resize
16:42:04  <glx> check the resizing code
16:42:08  <Alberth> glx: index numbers are completely seperate from positions etc, so those are good
16:42:55  <Rubidium> the resizing assumes it goes the other way I reckon, so it keeps the original location, calculated the new size and marks the window dirty from the old 'base' location
16:42:58  <Alberth> glx: I will, but I would not be surprised if this case is not handled properly
16:43:28  <Alberth> At least we need a new resize-box sprite :)
16:43:56  <Rubidium> that's a minor detail I'd say ;)
16:45:53  <Alberth> I'd even consider rtl languages something of the future for now. Let's first get rid of those widget arrays
16:46:27  <Rubidium> well, RTL languages are actually used
16:46:51  <glx> Alberth: StartWindowSizing() is probably whay you need to modify
16:46:57  <glx> *what
16:47:11  <glx> ,..._drag_delta.x = _cursor.pos.x;
16:47:11  <glx> ,..._drag_delta.y = _cursor.pos.y;
16:47:19  <glx> ^^ these lines I think
16:48:04  <glx> or it is in HandleWindowDragging()
16:48:36  <glx> around line 1490
16:48:38  <Alberth> I think it is great to make OpenTTD rtl aware. However, even with something simple like the news history, the news lines get printed at the wrong place, since the drawing code didn't take into accout that the panel widget may be moved.
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16:48:55  <Alberth> There are probably a lot of those things in the code.
16:49:16  <glx> most windows use hardcoded text offsets
16:49:24  <Alberth> glx: tnx, I'll have a look later this week or so
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16:52:00  <kasper> hmmz... :)
16:52:06  <Alberth> glx, Rubidium: I'll make a small doc, then ask you to have a look
16:52:45  <kasper> is there an easy to access parameter that sets the station influence area?
16:53:03  <glx> it's in the source
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16:53:28  <kasper> so it cant be changd?
16:53:50  <kasper> well, not in a few clicks
16:54:46  <Rubidium> Alberth: yes, the text drawing can be a problem, but I've got some ideas for that too (basically handle the location swapping in the drawstring stuff)
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16:55:38  <Alberth> I'd consider that a minor detail for now ;)
16:55:59  <glx> yeah first step is working windows :)
16:56:32  <glx> horizontal scrollbar will be fun too ;)
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17:13:50  <petern> hardcoded pixel offsets is something i've been replacing as and when, heh
17:13:51  <petern> but
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17:18:39  <batti5> can somebody please fix my nfo here , i tried everyway with no succes.
17:18:56  <batti5> ?
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17:19:09  <Firzen> Well, let's go on trying to get this f****** dedicated server work :D
17:19:40  <Forked> ok I might ahve messed this up somewhat. But in 1995 with "vehicles never expires" turned off and using DB Set v0.82 (XL).. are no wagons to transport steel?
17:20:53  <frosch123> batti5: you specified two action 8, and you specified that 8 real sprites follow the action 1, it is up to you to learn how to fix those basic things
17:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Forked: wagonspeedlimits off?
17:21:48  <Forked> Eddi|zuHause: yes
17:21:58  <Eddi|zuHause> i think it's a bug in the DBSet
17:22:19  <Eddi|zuHause> the new "faster" wagons do not appear, but the old ones are still set to disappear
17:22:26  <Forked> oh meh
17:22:31  <Forked> and I can't change that in a game thats already running
17:22:36  <Eddi|zuHause> which was no problem, as long as openttd ignored the wagon lifetime :p
17:22:42  <frosch123> likely because "wagons can expire" was added later :)
17:24:06  <Forked> and no way to change that setting using rcon or anything in a game thats already running? :\ GUI has grayed out the option
17:24:43  <Eddi|zuHause> turn on "vehicles never expire", and do "resetengines"
17:24:50  <frosch123> you should be able to load the game in single player, change the setting and do resetengines
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17:26:48  <Firzen> I downloaded the lib at" target="_blank"> and installed it but it still says "./openttd: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory"
17:28:07  <Eddi|zuHause> did installing through yast not work?
17:28:52  <Firzen> I didn't find it. So I thought before I waste hours searching in yast for it I ask Google.
17:29:15  <Firzen> Installed it with "yast -i SDL-1.2.9-19.5.x86_64.rpm" then.
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17:32:07  <Eddi|zuHause> <- this is when i search for "sdl" with zypper, it should be really easy to install
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17:32:43  <Glade> hi?
17:33:10  <Eddi|zuHause> so simply typing "zypper install sdl" should work
17:33:35  <Ammler> Firzen: if you look for suse packages, try
17:34:16  <Ammler> but you should be fine with repos oss non-oss update and packman
17:34:42  <Eddi|zuHause> "yast -i sdl" should work as well
17:35:01  <Ammler> (if you have the repos ;-)
17:35:09  <Firzen> "zypper info sdl" returns "package not found" for me
17:35:29  <Ammler> nopaste "zypper lr"
17:35:37  <Eddi|zuHause> then try "zypper search sdl"
17:35:53  <Firzen> Trying "yasi -i sdl" atm
17:36:03  <welshdragon> riight
17:36:06  <welshdragon> i need help
17:36:11  <Firzen> This server needs lots of time for reading cache...
17:36:19  <Ammler> Firzen: yast uses the same repos then zypper
17:36:21  <Eddi|zuHause> well, zypper and yast use the same database, so if one fails, the other one should fail, too
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17:36:53  <welshdragon> i have 2 companies that were in a multiplayer game, the first company is now dead, any  way of resetting it?
17:36:59  <Firzen> But why do you find it but I don't?
17:37:33  <Firzen> I thought this would be some kind of online database.
17:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> because maybe your repositories are not set up for the general opensuse repository, but some locally hosted repository that is missing some packages?
17:38:13  <Eddi|zuHause> like ammler said, type in "zypper lr"
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17:38:32  <Firzen> I get a table.
17:38:45  <Ammler>
17:38:52  <Eddi|zuHause> paste the table on
17:38:57  <Ammler> :-)
17:39:01  <Ammler> sorry
17:40:02  <Firzen>
17:40:28  <Firzen> I'm sorry this is in german
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17:41:32  <batti5> at the first sprite how i can declare 4 sprites, if i type 04 renum protests Error (51): Unexpected real sprite found., why?
17:41:39  <batti5> ?
17:42:18  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't find a zypper command that lists the repository details...
17:44:37  <Firzen> So? What should I do? :o
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17:45:14  <batti5> what should i try to 4 sprites?
17:45:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd say add as repository
17:45:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yast -> repository management
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17:46:58  <batti5> #0: define how many sprites are in the file (13 decimal=0D) why not 04 = 4?
17:47:12  <Eddi|zuHause> or first, give us the url that your "SUSE-Linux-10.3-OSS" repository is set to
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17:48:23  <Firzen> too late, added it already ;)
17:48:37  <Eddi|zuHause> tell us anyway ;)
17:48:39  <Firzen>
17:49:06  <Eddi|zuHause> <- the file is definitely there
17:49:51  <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: that url gives me a "no connection" error ;)
17:50:00  <Firzen> lol
17:50:13  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i presume that's internal only
17:50:20  <Firzen> So strato seems to not take care of their customers
17:50:45  <Eddi|zuHause> i presume they stripped the graphical stuff off their server repos
17:51:09  <Firzen> Should i use now the yast search or enter uri directly or what?
17:51:16  <Eddi|zuHause> which a headless server is supposed to not need
17:51:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: when yast is done adding the repository searching should work
17:51:52  <Firzen> Ok.
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17:58:19  <Firzen> lol still not findable
17:58:23  <Ammler> Firzen:
17:59:15  <Firzen> Ammler: It's a yml-file. What's it for?
17:59:39  <Ammler> it adds the needed repos and installs openttd for you
17:59:48  <Ammler> 1-click-install
18:00:10  <Firzen> Just run it on the linux server?
18:00:26  <Ammler> why do you want to install sdl on a server?
18:00:43  <Firzen> Because OpenTTD says it cannot be found.
18:00:54  <Ammler> install a dedicated version
18:01:14  <Ammler> which version do you want?
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18:01:48  <Firzen> stable
18:01:50  <Firzen> 0.6.3
18:01:58  <Ammler> well, are you sure?
18:02:02  <Firzen> No.
18:02:03  <Rubidium> can I have r15594M ?
18:02:32  <Firzen> Beta doesn't sound good. You recommend me a newer than 0.6.3?
18:02:39  <Ammler> nightlies should have dedicated versions
18:03:17  <Rubidium> Ammler: they don't
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18:03:34  <Roujin> greetings
18:03:41  <Ammler> oh, so he didn't add them :-(
18:03:45  <Rubidium> unless TB sneaked that in very lately
18:03:54  <Eddi|zuHause> Firzen: did you actually "enable" the repository?
18:04:16  <Roujin> sorry for not being available since last week, but now finally exam time is over :)
18:04:18  <Ammler> installing sdl just for openttd is quite silly.
18:04:34  <Firzen> Well let's decide what I do <.<
18:04:49  <Rubidium> exams on sunday?
18:04:56  <Firzen> What shall I do with this yml?
18:05:23  <Roujin> I've done the requested changes to the waypoint counter patch Belugas posted in the flyspray task - will upload it in a moment..
18:05:27  <Ammler> it is for desktops, don't know if you can run it from console.
18:06:10  <Firzen> Oh it's ymp xD
18:11:26  <Firzen> Argh I die x_X
18:12:50  <Ammler> openttd devs assume that evey admin should be alble to compile openttd self ;-)
18:13:08  <Firzen> Yeah but not a Linux noob like me.
18:17:20  <Ammler> zypper ar && zypper in openttd
18:17:33  <batti5> //!!Fatal Error (44): Invalid feature byte.
18:17:35  <batti5>     8 * 6	 02 18 06 04 04 00
18:17:37  <batti5> ???
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18:17:59  <Roujin> I have a question regarding savegame version conditional variables: what happens if a version prior to their introduction is loaded? Are they initialized to zero?
18:18:40  <Roujin> Do I have to manually care for them in the loading code?
18:19:22  <Rubidium> stuff on the map might not be 0, stuff in the structs will be 0
18:19:37  <Rubidium> unless it's the settings code, where it'll will have the default value
18:20:14  <Eddi|zuHause> so if it
18:20:31  <Eddi|zuHause> is a setting, you can leave it on the defaults, or handle it specifically
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18:20:58  <Roujin> ok thanks
18:21:03  <Roujin> it's in a struct
18:22:04  <Roujin> and zero is perfectly fine in this case
18:22:43  <Roujin> better than random, at least ^^
18:24:11  <Rubidium> hmm, actually... I tink it's what the default constructor sets it to, but that's something you need to test as I'm not sure of that
18:25:27  <Rubidium> and when the constructor doesn't set it, it'll be 0
18:25:36  <Roujin> okay, will run a quick test..
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18:30:12  <Roujin> according to test, it's set to zero...
18:30:34  <Firzen> Why don't I get this ded server working? :(
18:31:57  <Sacro> surely it won't work
18:32:08  <Eddi|zuHause> if you "think" something is always true, insert an assert ;)
18:32:17  <Sacro> if you initialise them to zero then you handle them
18:32:34  <Sacro> oh right you mean updating the savegame's vesion
18:32:38  <Sacro> increasing it
18:32:41  * Sacro stops talking now
18:34:52  <batti5> //!!Warning (42): Length does not match n-id and num-cid of 01 and 00. (Expected 7 bytes)
18:34:54  <batti5>     9 * 59	 03 00 01 01 00 00 00
18:35:05  <batti5> what this means?
18:35:07  <Roujin> okay, uploaded the new version to flyspray
18:36:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15595 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:36:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-01 18:35:59
18:36:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 39 changed by planetmaker (39)
18:36:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: icelandic - 80 fixed by scrooge (80)
18:36:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: italian - 2 changed by lorenzodv (2)
18:36:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: lithuanian - 116 fixed by Devastator (116)
18:36:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: persian - 219 fixed by ali sattari (219)
18:39:21  <Roujin> +STR_DEPOT_VEHICLE_ORDER_LIST_SHIP_TIP                           :{BLACK}All Schiffe, die diese Werft anfahren, auflisten <--- we have space ships in OpenTTD? ^^
18:39:32  <Roujin> "All Schiffe"
18:40:02  <frosch123> yeah, the translation sucks, the proper name is "Raumschiffe" :p
18:40:16  <Rubidium> Roujin: yes we have space ships
18:41:25  <Roujin> *runs away before planetmaker comes and hits me* ^^
18:41:47  <planetmaker> :)
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18:44:16  <planetmaker> changed
18:45:22  <Rubidium> too late ;)
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18:45:50  <Rubidium> :O powerpc
18:45:55  <Rubidium> running OSX 10.3.9?
18:45:59  <amixppc> no
18:46:08  <amixppc> MorphOS
18:47:04  <Rubidium> have they already switched to a more recent GCC?
18:47:24  <amixppc> hmm, maybe a Aminet alike thing for OpenTTD would be great?
18:47:51  <amixppc> like
18:48:25  <amixppc> thinking of it when seeing Check online content thing in 0.7.0 beta
18:48:33  <Rubidium> well... we used to build morphos binaries once
18:48:44  <glx> batti5: you really need to read nfo docs
18:49:13  <el_en> wtf is this MorphOS thing anyway?
18:49:14  <amixppc> Rubidium: i know. but tokai doesnt have time to do the ports before April
18:49:25  <amixppc> el_en:
18:49:35  <amixppc> PPC based AmigaOS
18:50:04  <el_en> nice. at least the PPC part.
18:50:11  * Rubidium still would like some way to virtualise/emulate morpos on a x86 machine so we can actually build the binaries ourselves instead of relying on others
18:51:08  <amixppc> most morphos people hates x86 :)
18:51:32  <Rubidium> that's fine by me ;)
18:51:49  <Rubidium> as long as there is ONE that makes sure it runs in e.g. pearpc
18:52:45  * el_en owns about four or five PPC processors
18:53:19  * frosch123 owns about 10 atmega processors
18:53:32  <frosch123> :p
18:53:47  * Eddi|zuHause does not remember owning any non-x86-processor-based PC
18:54:32  <thingwath> neither do I, what is it good for?
18:54:59  <amixppc>
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18:55:05  <amixppc> thats morphos
18:55:14  <Rubidium> thingwath: proprietary stuff
18:55:35  <thingwath> ah. so I don't miss anything :)
18:56:12  <thingwath> (we have one old IRIX at school, as a server for students, it's such a crap)
18:56:55  <Eddi|zuHause> not everything that you are not able to handle is automatically crap
18:57:38  <thingwath> :)
18:59:05  <thingwath> it's good for C/C++ courses, students are expected to compile their stuff there, so they see there is not only linux/glibc
19:00:06  <Rubidium> yup, there's also apple/incompatible, unix/libc, windows/nonstandardstandard, etc. ;)
19:00:27  <thingwath> even though we use gcc on it
19:00:54  *** Firzen [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.6/2009011913]]
19:05:00  <DaleStan> <batti5> at the first sprite how i can declare 4 sprites, if i type 04 renum protests, why? <-- That depends entirely on where you put the 04. As for the rest of it, there's a nice file with a paragraph or more on each error message, the causes, and the solutions. Try reading it.
19:06:13  <DaleStan> Failing that, if an offset is specified, find what you think is the offending byte, and change it to something else. Repeat until you find the offending byte. (You'll know because the error message changed/disappeared.) That should provide clue as to why that byte is wrong.
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19:11:08  <amixppc> the openttd gui is such a copy of amigaos v2.05
19:11:18  <amixppc> fun to know
19:11:21  <amixppc> ;p
19:13:55  <Sacro> amigaos?
19:14:14  <amixppc> yes
19:14:17  <Sacro> Ahh Workbench
19:14:27  <amixppc> Workbenc v2.05
19:14:34  <amixppc> a bit lighter
19:14:40  <amixppc> grey tone
19:14:43  <amixppc> as default
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19:14:58  <Sacro> <3 1.3
19:16:44  <Eddi|zuHause> # dîr cuiol ú-'ar nin degi!
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19:20:45  <el_en> Q'apla!
19:21:53  <Eddi|zuHause> wrong language :p
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19:23:19  <Eddi|zuHause> is the drink called "Spezi" known outside of germany? (mix of Fanta and Coke)
19:25:22  <el_en> never heard of it, even inside germany.
19:25:29  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: at least in autria
19:25:48  <Ammler> but not well known here (CH)
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19:26:27  <Ammler> I thought, it is a mix of coke and sinalco
19:26:36  <Ammler> ;-)
19:27:10  <el_en> is it any similar to Mezzo Mix?
19:27:51  <el_en> or hmm, it even is.
19:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> el_en: well, yes, i believe they produced mezzo mix after the drink became popular ;)
19:29:17  <Ammler> afaik, you can't buy it in bottles
19:29:39  <Ammler> you have to mix self
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19:30:50  <el_en> "Most large beverage manufacturers sell similar products, though most of them only in Germany. Examples are Schwip Schwap by PepsiCo or Mezzo Mix by the Coca-Cola Company. Nowadays, these two competitors sell far better than the original Spezi. However, original Spezi, in contrast to is main competitors, is not available in some parts of Germany, particularly in large parts of former East Germany"
19:32:05  <el_en> actually, Lidl is selling something spezish even in Finland.
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20:04:20  <Roujin> Flyspray just gave me "Warning: Unknown: write failed: No space left on device (28) in Unknown on line 0 Warning: Unknown: Failed to write session data (files). Please verify that the current setting of session.save_path is correct (/var/lib/php5) in Unknown on line 0 "
20:04:51  <frosch123> yeah, it fails also for me
20:06:26  <frosch123> so I post it here. Roujin: "+				this->wp->traffic_highest = this->wp->traffic_this_month;" won't work in multiplayer. It only sets the value on a singleclient, and as it stored in savegame elsewise, that is generally a bad idea
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20:07:34  <Roujin> haha, yes, of course
20:08:13  <Roujin> what a silly mistake
20:08:37  <Roujin> changing game state'ish stuff in gui code..
20:10:14  <Roujin> needs a command, plus disabling the button for non-owners of the waypoint, plus checking in the command that it's the owner of the waypoint who wants to reset it
20:10:43  <Roujin> or, removing the "reset" button again :P meh...
20:10:49  <frosch123> that's the price for storing it in the save :)
20:11:25  <petern> needs a save?
20:11:27  <petern> er
20:11:30  <petern> needs a command?
20:11:44  <petern> i suppose if you have a button to reset it or something
20:11:48  <petern> i've not looked :p
20:12:09  <Roujin> yeah, that's it. but I already stated the same some lines above you :P
20:12:31  <petern> i was reading downwards
20:13:26  <frosch123> <- running again :)
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20:33:29  <Thor> hello, is there someone online?
20:33:34  <Rubidium> no
20:33:44  <Rubidium> ;)
20:33:55  <Thor> phew, i was lucky then :D
20:33:59  <Rubidium> @seen someone
20:33:59  <DorpsGek> Rubidium: someone was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 5 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 41 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: * Someone here is gay
20:34:14  <Rubidium> see, he isn't online
20:34:21  <Thor> lol
20:34:35  <Thor> i neither knew such a command existed...
20:34:59  <Thor> uhm am i mistaking or you are one of the coders ?
20:35:11  <Thor> (i'm quite a newbie here ... )
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20:37:12  <glx> if you have a question, just ask :)
20:37:16  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. you are either mistaken or he is a coder.
20:37:36  <Eddi|zuHause> most likely both, though :)
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20:38:33  <Thor> oh well, nobody's perfect i suppose,so being wrong is right :D
20:39:04  <Thor> is there a source of documentations for vectors?
20:39:34  <Eddi|zuHause> what vectors?
20:39:41  <Thor> i have chemicals factories that do not give me money when i give them refined stuff, so i'd like to know if it's me making something wrong or a bug
20:39:48  <Thor> err..chemical i think
20:39:54  <Thor> the one with the factory wich sells dies
20:40:09  <Eddi|zuHause> oh, you mean ECS Vectors, we have nothing to do with those
20:40:36  <Thor> oh
20:40:46  <Roujin> <-- seen this wiki?
20:41:14  <Thor> no, never.. thank you, i'll look immediatly
20:41:30  * Roujin thought about c++ vectors, not ECS Vectors first, heh..
20:41:51  <Thor> lol
20:41:54  <Thor> nope =P
20:43:14  <Thor> talking about pointers is too dangerous after dusk...
20:45:54  <Eddi|zuHause> you don't talk about pointers, you have them.
20:47:44  <Thor> there is nothing about the chemical vector in that wiki ._.
20:48:50  <Roujin> is it not this one?
20:49:28  <Thor> yes, but it's not talking about the plant that does not pay me
20:49:50  <Thor> i bring them stuff and they don't pay me -.- that's no good for business
20:50:15  <Roujin> did you change (add) grfs during the game?
20:50:19  <Brokkoli> maybe the stock is full?
20:51:07  <Thor> no,it was a new game with a recent nightly (so no beta7) / no ,it was a new route to a previously not connected plant
20:51:18  <Thor> (i found a thread on the forums i'll post there too...)
20:51:28  <Roujin> what revision of OpenTTD exactly?
20:51:57  <Thor> r15591
20:52:01  <Roujin> there was a bug recently iirc that messed up payment..
20:52:12  <Thor> :/
20:52:34  <Roujin> hm, no.. r15591 is after the fix for the bug I mentioned
20:53:02  <Thor> ç_ç
20:53:19  <Roujin> okay, another guess: do you have another industry set in addition to ECS?
20:53:54  <Thor> uhm...only a second,i check
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20:54:54  <Thor> in the right order: ecs town, ecs basic, ecs agricult, ecs chemic,planeset 459,old wagons new cargos 1.1 , egrvts
20:55:01  <Thor> so no, no other sets..
20:56:10  <Thor> wow, another one had exactly the same problem as mine
20:58:41  <Roujin> hmm, if you don't find a solution there, you should post your problem there, with a savegame attached. George may be able to help you..
20:59:27  <Thor> i guess i can only wait...the one with the same problem still doesn't have an answer..
20:59:33  <Thor> i guess i'll change the vector meantime
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21:23:32  <energetic> Some players found a really creative way to 'cheat' on other companies - by stationwalking from the town where a sttaue is bought to the loading place.
21:23:49  <energetic> Any creative ideas against it?
21:24:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, reduce station spread
21:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause> 12 should be enough for most purposes
21:25:15  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause: difficult, if you play with TL 15 :)
21:25:21  <Eddi|zuHause> or 5 if you want to be cruel ;)
21:25:34  <planetmaker> :P
21:25:44  <Bjarni> 2!
21:25:50  <planetmaker> 4 is minimum ... or?
21:25:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i think 4 was the limit
21:26:04  <Bjarni> I can't remember
21:26:13  <Bjarni> but 2 would be.... interesting
21:26:16  <Bjarni> and not a game for me
21:26:29  <Bjarni> it would likely be CPU friendly though
21:26:35  <el_en> captain on deck!
21:26:47  <Rubidium> station spread 1 with only ships and aircraft ;)
21:26:48  <Bjarni> HIT THE DECK!
21:26:55  <planetmaker> :D
21:27:05  <planetmaker> On a map 8 x 1024 tiles
21:27:34  <Bjarni> just ships only on that map size would also be interesting
21:27:44  <Aali> station spread 1 with trains only would be "interesting"
21:27:44  <Eddi|zuHause> you can build heliports, but have no hangars ;)
21:28:32  <Eddi|zuHause> with proper newgrfs you can get 4 wagons on 1 tile
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21:29:17  <Eddi|zuHause> or even 5
21:33:01  <el_en> Bjarni: Have you ever built glib on Mac?
21:35:01  <Eddi|zuHause> bahh.... i totally hate that "delete" button on the newgrf window, i always hit it when i want to hit "remove" instead
21:35:25  <Eddi|zuHause> can we have a confirmation window there, please?
21:36:05  <Ammler> Eddi|zuHause: use better newgrf gui ;-)
21:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: get that into trunk then
21:36:46  *** energetic [] has quit [Quit: energetic]
21:37:04  <Ammler> the patch is up2date
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21:38:15  <Bjarni> <el_en> Bjarni: Have you ever built glib on Mac? <--- actually I'm not sure. I built so many things
21:38:16  <Bjarni> why?
21:39:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: that does not suffice
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21:40:02  <Eddi|zuHause> and can we _please_ split terraforming basecosts from foundation base costs?
21:41:10  <el_en> Bjarni: it's quite painful to build an use if it needs to be Universal... as for the why part, i'm interested to hear any tips.
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21:48:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15596 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Change: road vehicles can stop at stops when they own the stop, not when they own the road/tram track.
21:50:11  <el_en> and before Rubidium says anything, glib in general is painful to cross-compile.
21:57:11  <Bjarni> el_en: then build it natively only and then build it for the other CPU afterwards. Last step would then be to glue the results together into universal files
21:58:44  <Wolf01> 'night
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21:59:28  <Bjarni> say you work on an intel x86, then you make the PPC part by typing “CFLAGS="-arch ppc" LDFLAGS="-arch ppc" ./configure“
21:59:53  <Bjarni> it's quite simple and works at least half of the time
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22:00:58  <Bjarni> if you are on 10.4 PPC, then you will need to add the path to the universal SDK to compile for x86 too
22:01:15  <Mark> I'm looking for a tread in tt-forums that had a guide to how to make a heightmap, can't find it now though, anyone know where it is?
22:01:29  <Rubidium> general sticky?
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22:01:47  <Mark> Oh, fund it :D
22:02:01  <Bjarni> you funded it?
22:02:05  <Mark> found*
22:02:05  <Bjarni> sounds interesting :P
22:02:08  <Mark> :D
22:02:47  <Bjarni> are you planning on funding me to write a page about how to place signals too?
22:03:49  <Rubidium> Bjarni: why would you need to build native first? Building an universal binary without OSX adds a nice extra challenge ;)
22:04:26  <el_en> Bjarni: yeah, i've managed building it universally, but it's silly how complicated it was.
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22:05:13  <Bjarni> the reason for building natively first is that if you have a setup issue you want to detect it while building natively so you know you shouldn't blame it on a crosscompiler
22:05:22  <Mark> Bjarni: haha, now you're just mean :p
22:06:06  <el_en> Bjarni: what about... have you encountered a problem with autoconf/Makefile things wanting to link /usr/lib/libiconv.dylib, which doesn't work with universal builds because it's not universal?
22:06:16  *** Yeggstry [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:06:27  <Bjarni> Mark: well if it works one out of 100 times, then I just have to say this 99 more times before I get credit :D
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22:07:54  <Bjarni> el_en: CFLAGS="-isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -arch i386"  <-- this line will make the compiler see the SDK as file root and this should avoid that problem
22:08:15  <Bjarni> however it depends on how the autoconf script is written
22:08:20  <Bjarni> and sometimes it fails
22:08:33  <Bjarni> there is no "do it like this and it always work" solution
22:08:51  <Bjarni> I wouldn't mind such a solution though ;)
22:09:50  <Rubidium> true; many libraries don't even support cross compiling in a proper manner, e.g. libicu
22:11:14  <Bjarni> CFLAGS="-O -g -isysroot /Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.4u.sdk -arch i386 -arch ppc" LDFLAGS="-arch i386 -arch ppc" ./configure --disable-dependency-tracking <-- this work if configure is written as it should be written
22:11:29  <Bjarni> and it will produce a universal binary for 10.4
22:11:29  <Mark> Bjarni: how interested are you in swedish railroads? (Especially 891mm)
22:11:44  <Bjarni> hmm
22:11:51  <Bjarni> somewhat
22:12:24  <Bjarni> I haven't actually been on a Swedish narrowgauge railroad though
22:12:36  <Mark> Okey :p
22:12:52  <Rubidium> isn't 891mm quite wide for a model train?
22:13:29  <Mark> I'm thinking of doing a heightmap of uppland in sweden, where the narrow-gauge Roslagsbanan ( ) in OTTD
22:14:03  <el_en> Bjarni: the damned autoconf shit wants to use the absolute path, and -isysroot doesn't affect absolute paths.
22:14:05  <Mark> It isn't a modeltrain though :)
22:14:57  * Rubidium misses Uppsala
22:15:29  <Aali> Mark: I've seen it, never rode on it though
22:15:44  <Mark> Okay :)
22:15:51  <Bjarni> Mark: 891 mm gauge is a toy gauge though :P
22:16:06  <glx> <@Rubidium> true; many libraries don't even support cross compiling in a proper manner, e.g. libicu <-- even 'native' win32 compilation needs tricks for this one
22:16:23  <el_en> Bjarni: i'm quite convinced using -liconv would solve the problem, but seems to be next to impossible to change the exact linking parameters.
22:16:28  <Mark> I've have lived in Rimbo, where SRJ (former owner of Roslagsbanan) had their formed headstation
22:17:06  <Bjarni> I know Roslagsbanan a little bit, but I have never been anywhere near it
22:17:32  <Mark> And my gf lives about 500m from Stockholm Östra (The headstation now)
22:17:59  <Mark> And her father is very interested in trains too, that's nice, then we have something to talk about :)
22:18:07  <Aali> heh
22:18:12  <Mark> He has alot of books about trains
22:18:12  <Aali> so where do you live now?
22:18:29  <Mark> About 14km from stockholm
22:18:52  <Mark> But most of the time at my gf apartment in stockholm :p
22:20:28  <Bjarni> Roslagsbanan was actually the first railroad to be electrified (1895). Some US railroad opened their electric part later the same year and ever since the US have tried to convince the world that Roslagsbanan is in fact a tram and not a real railroad meaning that the first real electric railroad was in US
22:22:15  <Bjarni> <Mark> Bjarni: how interested are you in swedish railroads? <--- when I first read that question for some reason my first thought was that SJ introduced the compressed air brake in 1920. Don't ask me why that was the first thing that came to my mind, but at least it was about Swedish rails xD
22:22:22  <Mark> lol
22:22:37  <Mark> Haha
22:22:39  <Mark> yeah :P
22:23:47  <Bjarni> so do you have anything interesting to say about Swedish trains?
22:23:56  <Bjarni> I'm actually interested in information on Y6
22:24:06  <Rubidium> they have swedish conductors?
22:24:26  <Rubidium> or isn't that interesting?
22:24:34  <Bjarni> the Swedish conductors operate in Denmark for some reason :s
22:25:06  <Mark> Isn't that for the öresundsbanan just?
22:25:10  <Bjarni> seriously. Take a train from Copenhagen towards the airport or northbound along the coast and odds are that the train crew will be Swedish
22:25:29  <Mark> As I said :)
22:25:50  <Bjarni> <Mark> Isn't that for the öresundsbanan just? <-- no, it's also Kbh-HelsingÞr
22:26:16  <Bjarni> which used to be 100% Danish
22:26:23  <Mark> Mkay :p
22:26:44  <Bjarni> but then the train operator moved from being DSB to being DSB-First and they replaced the Danish crew with Swedish
22:26:44  <Mark> That may be because the swedes gets better paid in denmark then in sweden
22:26:50  <Bjarni> at least it feels like they did
22:27:13  <Bjarni> one Swedish kr is worth 0.65 Danish kr
22:27:40  <Bjarni> meaning it's a very good deal to pay living expenses in Sweden and getting a paycheck in Denmark
22:27:53  <Mark> Yes
22:28:00  <Mark> Hmm
22:28:12  <Rubidium> Bjarni: use the euro... a 1 French euro is worth 1 Dutch euro; makes those calculations much easier
22:28:15  <Bjarni> it's still somewhat wrong that the train crew is unable to speak Danish :S
22:28:22  <Mark> No one got "srtm_40_01"-files from Google Earth?
22:28:34  <Mark> The HTTP and FTPs don't have it it seems like
22:28:36  <Aali> if you're in it for the cash, just go to work in norway
22:28:50  <Mark> Rubidium: :D
22:28:58  <Bjarni> for instance the other day they warned about slippery platforms... or at least we think that is what they said on the speaker
22:29:05  <Mark> Aali: that's a good idea :)
22:29:19  <Bjarni> but nobody knows for sure since it was some Swede trying to speak Danish and nobody understood it
22:29:26  <nicfer> one question, what happens if a company in the title screen game goes bankrupt?
22:29:53  <Aali> friend of mine used to work in norway, came home every other weekend
22:29:54  <Mark> Btw, does danish people have easier too understand swedes from stockholm or north sweden then swedes from Skåne?
22:30:07  <Aali> made boatloads of cash
22:31:25  <Bjarni> Mark: err... people in Skåne can speak weird once in a while so it's not unlikely
22:32:13  <Bjarni> however personally I don't have a huge issue with Swedish. I mean I grew up with stuff being cheaper in Denmark than in Sweden meaning they were everywhere buying a whole lot of stuff
22:32:30  <Bjarni> also I have more Swedish than Danish TV channels
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22:33:09  <Bjarni> I remember that I could see Duck Tales in Swedish when I was around 10 but nobody had translated it to Danish at the time, so I couldn't be picky :)
22:33:58  <Mark> Haha :p
22:34:27  <Mark> Swedes love to buy beer and other alcohol in denmark
22:34:32  <Mark> And in germany too
22:35:00  <Bjarni> hmm
22:35:04  <el_en> not surprising
22:35:14  <Bjarni> I can see 3 Danish TV channels and 13 Swedish ones
22:35:26  <Bjarni> most of the Swedish ones aren't that interesting though
22:36:04  <Mark> Nah, swedish TV sucks :p
22:36:39  <Bjarni> <Mark> Swedes love to buy beer and other alcohol in denmark <-- I think Swedish kr is worth too little today for that to be good
22:36:58  <Bjarni> they used to invade HelsingÞr every Saturday though
22:37:01  <Mark> ^^
22:37:34  <Bjarni> I like this one. A bus from Sweden showed up in HelsingÞr, parked and everybody went to buy alcohol (this was the whole point)
22:37:37  <el_en> in sweden they need to get almost everything from systembolaget.
22:37:54  <Bjarni> when the Swedes returned a big issue had come up. The bus was illegally parked and had been hit by a train
22:39:15  <el_en> .. a train driven by Bjarni
22:40:58  <Bjarni> no
22:41:04  <Bjarni> I have yet to hit anything
22:41:23  <Bjarni> actually I read about this in the newspaper and I haven't been able to figure out who actually drove the train
22:41:51  <Bjarni> nobody wants to tell who drove 15 km/h and failed to avoid a parked bus :P
22:41:55  <Mark> Haha
22:41:55  <Mark> :D
22:45:03  <Bjarni> I did get the name of another guy (I will not tell it here). He starts off by hitting a knocked over tree that blocks the track (not his fault). Then he derails in a switch and after that he hits a shopping cart. He then goes "this appears to be a bad day"
22:45:09  <Bjarni> or something like that
22:46:08  <Bjarni> he was supposed to drive the first morning train but due to all his incidents the first train drove at 10 O'clock or something like that (it was weekend, but still)
22:46:50  <Bjarni> looks like he took all the bad luck for 3-5 years or something and "used" it during a few hours
22:47:10  <Bjarni> so do you have any good stories?
22:48:20  <Bjarni> anybody still reading this?
22:48:42  <Rubidium> no!
22:48:50  <Bjarni> :(
22:48:53  <Eddi|zuHause> never
22:49:01  <Eddi|zuHause> i would not dare
22:49:05  <Bjarni> then I wasted a great part of my life
22:49:12  <Rubidium> don't like your 20 line monologues
22:49:14  <Bjarni> or potientially great part of my life
22:49:24  <Mark> :P
22:49:40  <Bjarni> I will never know what great inventions I could have made if I had spent my time differently
22:49:54  <Bjarni> Mark: what can you tell me about Y6?
22:50:28  <apo_> Hm. How many ticks are approx. a day?
22:51:00  <Mark> Bjarni: not much, what do you want to know?
22:51:08  <Bjarni> everything
22:51:17  <Bjarni> since I just got one
22:52:02  <Bjarni> it's a great technical design, but it would be interesting to get comments from people who have actually seen them in commercial service
22:52:02  <Mark> Eh?
22:52:13  <Mark> I have'nt :p
22:52:17  <Bjarni> :/
22:52:26  <apo_> ah, 74.
22:52:46  <Mark> All lines up here are electrified
22:53:24  <Bjarni> I should have guessed
22:53:25  <Mark> And running with X*/RC*-trains
22:53:42  <Bjarni> I think it's 80% or 85% of Swedish rails that have been electrified
22:53:59  <Mark> Mkay :p
22:54:00  <Bjarni> which is a result of coal shortage during WW1
22:54:18  <Mark> Yep
22:54:23  <Bjarni> coal is imported, but hydropower is local
22:54:40  <Mark> Waterpower?
22:54:46  <Bjarni> yeah
22:54:59  <Bjarni> it's called hydropowerplants in English
22:56:18  <Brokkoli> why is it "plant"?
22:56:18  <Mark> Ah
22:56:19  <Mark> :)
22:57:51  <Bjarni> define: plant
22:57:52  <Bjarni> (botany) a living organism lacking the power of locomotion
22:57:52  <Bjarni> buildings for carrying on industrial labor; "they built a large plant to manufacture automobiles"
22:58:02  <Bjarni> pick one you think suits a building for producing power
22:58:18  <Bjarni> after all it's called a "power plant" ;)
22:58:35  <Brokkoli> yes i know
22:58:59  <Brokkoli> but why did they choose "plant" for factorys ;)
22:59:10  <Brokkoli> or something similar
22:59:27  <Bjarni> I think it has been called power plant ever since the power plant on Pearl Street, which were coal powered and actually fitted the description of a plant
22:59:38  <Eddi|zuHause> why did they choose "Werk" in german?
23:00:02  <Bjarni> well... it has to be called something
23:00:10  <Brokkoli> yes sure
23:00:19  <Brokkoli> but a plant.. a botanic plant.. is so different
23:00:56  <Eddi|zuHause> why? botanic plants are (usually) solar power plants
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23:01:17  <Brokkoli> ok thats an interesting link
23:01:17  <Bjarni> "Werk" is related to work, meaning it's a place where hard work takes place
23:01:20  <Brokkoli> yes
23:01:59  <Bjarni> if I recall correctly then Werk is also used in works where "Mill" is used in English
23:02:06  <Bjarni> like "Steel mill"
23:02:15  <Brokkoli> yes
23:02:28  <Brokkoli> we have a lot of "werk"s here
23:02:51  <Bjarni> English named it after using a water mill to power the plant while German (and Danish too) named it after the work that took place inside
23:03:03  <Brokkoli> yes
23:03:12  <Brokkoli> factory is from the work
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23:03:44  <Bjarni> In Danish it's called "vÊrk" and is pronounced more or less the same way as "Werk" and means the same
23:04:03  <Eddi|zuHause> "Stahlwalzwerk"
23:04:13  <Bjarni> StålvalsevÊrk
23:04:36  <Bjarni> looks like you can learn Danish in a week
23:04:39  <Eddi|zuHause> also similar "SÀgewerk" -> "saw mill"
23:04:44  <Brokkoli> yes
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23:04:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (although i also heard the term "SÀgemÌhle")
23:05:16  <Brokkoli> yes me too
23:05:39  <Brokkoli> but i have never heard "StahlmÃŒhle" ;)
23:05:56  <Bjarni> which would indicate that German decided on naming based on power while English kept the name even when it was steam powered
23:06:02  <Eddi|zuHause> that's also weird, mills are sometimes named after the thing that powers them but also sometimes after what they produce
23:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a "SteinmÃŒhle" here
23:06:46  <Brokkoli> or "WindmÃŒhle"
23:06:47  <Bjarni> I once got a letter from England and it turned out that it was from "Silk mill road"
23:07:00  <Bjarni> I don't think we ever had silk mills here
23:07:47  <Bjarni> <Eddi|zuHause> there used to be a "SteinmÃŒhle" here <-- is that based on construction or is it the stones for the grain that gave the name?
23:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i think i read a plate where it said that they actually cut stone there
23:08:29  <Brokkoli> ah ok
23:08:34  <Bjarni> (botany) a living organism lacking the power of locomotion  <--- I just realised. If you break both legs, will you turn into a plant?
23:08:56  <thingwath> you can still crawl
23:08:57  <Eddi|zuHause> you can still move with your arms
23:09:06  <Brokkoli> lol
23:09:07  <Bjarni> ok, break both legs and arms then
23:09:08  <Eddi|zuHause> and you can still move your mouth
23:09:19  <Eddi|zuHause> or your eye lids
23:09:24  <Bjarni> plants can move too
23:09:24  <thingwath> some snake-like something with torso?
23:09:30  <Eddi|zuHause> or your heart
23:09:36  <Brokkoli> plants can move, too
23:09:48  <Brokkoli> some are moving towards the light
23:09:51  <Bjarni> meat eating plants actually move quite a lot
23:09:53  <Brokkoli> slow but moving
23:09:58  <Brokkoli> yes
23:09:59  <Bjarni> and quite fast too
23:10:07  <Bjarni> trapping bugs inside
23:10:16  <Brokkoli> yes i know them
23:10:20  <Brokkoli> had one here ;)
23:10:35  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the distinction purely on moving is bound to fall into grey areas
23:10:44  <Brokkoli> yes
23:11:24  <Bjarni> and is it is the ability to turn CO2 into O2, then fungus wouldn't be plants
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23:11:28  <Eddi|zuHause> the typical definition of "plant" i know is based on capability of photosynthesis
23:12:05  <Eddi|zuHause> fungus are no plants in that sense
23:12:06  <Bjarni> Eddi|zuHause: you know the mushrooms on your pizza is usually classified as plants, yet they fail your definition
23:12:08  *** glx is now known as Guest128
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23:12:14  <SpComb> mushrooms are mushrooms
23:12:30  * Bjarni agrees with SpComb
23:12:39  <Rubidium> and mushrooms can be lethal
23:12:43  <Brokkoli> mushrooms are not plants
23:12:47  <Rubidium> and can spoil the soils
23:12:48  <SpComb> people might disagree.... indeeed
23:12:49  <db48x> mushrooms are fungus
23:13:13  <Bjarni>  <Brokkoli> mushrooms are not plants <-- are you sure?
23:13:17  *** racetrack [] has joined #openttd
23:13:20  <Brokkoli> yes
23:13:50  <Brokkoli>
23:14:01  <Brokkoli> However, the fungi are now considered a separate kingdom, distinct from both plants and animals, from which they appear to have diverged approximately one billion years ago.
23:14:13  <Eddi|zuHause> it says so on wikipedia, it must be true!
23:14:14  <SpComb> there is no mention of the word "plant" on the wikipedia article for "mushroom"
23:14:23  <tokai> plants with animal cells :)
23:14:27  <Bjarni> Plants are organisms belonging to the kingdom Plantae. They include familiar organisms such as trees, herbs, bushes, grasses, vines, ferns, mosses, and green algae. About 350,000 species of plants, defined as seed plants, bryophytes, ferns and fern allies, are estimated to exist currently <-- that's the definition on wikipedia
23:14:44  <Bjarni> but I say it doesn't really define what it is. It just tells what's included
23:14:55  <Brokkoli> ists hard to define
23:15:06  <Brokkoli> you can do it with genetics
23:15:19  <Brokkoli> all plants have some similar genetic parts
23:15:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i remember that in our biology lessons we had a single-cellular organithm that was both plant and animal
23:15:52  <Bjarni> "Fungi were previously included in the plant kingdom, but are now seen to be more closely related to animals."
23:16:13  <Bjarni> oh dear. Now I will have nightmares of the dangerous hungry fungi chasing me and eating me
23:16:16  <Brokkoli> yes
23:16:18  <Brokkoli> lol
23:16:24  <Brokkoli> All of these plants have eukaryotic cells with cell walls composed of cellulose, and most obtain their energy through photosynthesis, using light and carbon dioxide to synthesize food.
23:16:31  <Brokkoli> thats a good definition
23:16:33  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: we go fungus-hunting every autumn, they must be animals
23:16:52  <Bjarni> I tried that once
23:17:04  <Bjarni> a big group with an instructor
23:17:10  <Bjarni> I ended up with nothing
23:17:14  <tokai> Good that you survived. :)
23:17:27  <tokai> Some who try that don't. :)
23:17:32  <Brokkoli> they ran aray too fast ;)
23:17:38  <Bjarni> the basked was emptied because everything we found was poisonous
23:17:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, yes, we occasionally had years where we found exactly 3 eatable mushrooms
23:17:55  <Bjarni> *were
23:18:15  <De_Ghosty> mushrooms are animals
23:18:17  <De_Ghosty> they eat plants
23:18:21  <De_Ghosty> :o
23:18:33  <tokai> There are plants who eat animals.. so :)
23:18:36  <Brokkoli> plants eat plants, too
23:18:43  <tokai> s/who/which/  rather
23:18:45  <Eddi|zuHause> well, brown on the top and spongy on the bottom, you can't do much wrong with that rule :)
23:18:49  <Bjarni> there is no rule that plants can't eat plants
23:18:52  *** Guest128 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:18:56  <Bjarni> after all animals eats animals all the time
23:18:58  <De_Ghosty> plant can eat plant?
23:19:10  <db48x> and some plants eat animals
23:19:16  <De_Ghosty> name one
23:19:30  <db48x> pitcher plant
23:19:33  <db48x> venus fly trap
23:19:36  <Eddi|zuHause> there are plants that exclusively grow on other plants
23:19:38  <De_Ghosty> one that eat plant
23:19:42  <De_Ghosty> grow on
23:19:45  <Bjarni> I think he meant plants that eats plants
23:19:47  <db48x> ah
23:19:50  <De_Ghosty> mushroom kills the plant
23:19:57  <db48x> kudzu
23:19:58  <De_Ghosty> or eat dead plants
23:19:58  <Brokkoli> De_Ghosty: ivy
23:20:10  <Brokkoli> thy eat living plants
23:20:12  <Brokkoli> as parasites
23:20:17  <Eddi|zuHause> well "grow on" usually means "steal eatable material from"
23:20:26  <tokai> Venus Fly Trap eats Honey Bee eats Flower Stuff... so a plant eats plants by proxy :)
23:20:41  <Bjarni> :)
23:20:51  <Bjarni> proxy eating... never heard that before
23:21:01  <Brokkoli> lol
23:21:12  <Bjarni> does that mean that I can set up a proxy server in the kitchen and then I don't have to leave my bed to go eating?
23:21:36  <Bjarni> or even better. I can eat at uni without making a lunchbox at home first
23:21:45  <tokai> Bjarni: you train yourself a dog who eats in your kitchech... then you eat the dog in your bed:)
23:22:02  <tokai> kitchen even
23:22:06  <Bjarni> ...
23:22:12  <Bjarni> I wouldn't eat a dog
23:22:12  <Brokkoli> or open the window and wait for some animals
23:22:18  <Aali> proxy in the kitchen = wife
23:22:20  <glx> even a hot dog?
23:22:21  <tokai> Bjarni: a cat then. :)
23:22:32  <Bjarni>  <Brokkoli> or open the window and wait for some animals <-- that actually happened for me
23:22:38  <Bjarni> open window = new bird
23:22:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15597 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/ (regression.nut regression.txt): -Fix (r15563): regression wasn't updated after the removal of AIIndustry::GetMaxIndustryID().
23:22:56  <Brokkoli> :)
23:23:13  <tokai> I usually get spiders here :)
23:23:19  <Bjarni> I didn't get a picture though, but once I entered my room and a bird was sitting on the open window looking at the room
23:23:23  <De_Ghosty> lol proxy eating
23:23:36  <Bjarni> didn't like the fact that I showed up though
23:23:44  <Sacro> zomg BJARNI
23:23:52  <Bjarni> so it looked at me instead and flew rather quickly
23:24:01  <Bjarni> zomg SACRO
23:24:22  * Sacro hugs his fellow mac user
23:24:36  <Bjarni> I got a hug....
23:24:44  <Bjarni> Sacro: do you have boobs?
23:25:37  <Sacro> well, sorta
23:25:40  <Brokkoli> everyone has :P
23:25:48  <Bjarni> eek
23:25:57  <Bjarni> I got hugged by somebody with man boobs >.<
23:26:15  <Brokkoli> know fight club?
23:26:21  <Rubidium> Brokkoli: can you show where DorpsGek's boobs are?
23:26:23  <Bjarni> don't talk about it
23:26:23  <Sacro> Brokkoli: know rule 1?
23:26:40  <Bjarni> I hate the concept in that movie
23:28:01  <Bjarni> Sacro: so you want me to give you tips on how to compile on mac too?
23:28:15  <Sacro> nope
23:28:22  <Bjarni> lamer
23:28:28  <Bjarni> don't want to compile then
23:28:30  <Sacro> ./configure --enable-zlib=/usr/locale && make && make bundle
23:28:34  <Sacro> rer
23:28:42  <Sacro> s/le/l/
23:28:55  <Brokkoli> oh i forgot rule 1
23:29:02  <Bjarni> why the enable zlib thing?
23:29:47  <tokai> I tried to compile quickly on MorphOS some days ago.. I was surprised that the stuff I thought would fail actually compiled fine and it broke so far on some much simpler stuff (some function names collide with system function names)... but was too lazy to fix and didn't look further yet ;)
23:30:20  <Bjarni> I think you should fix that before 0.7.0
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23:31:09  <tokai> Depends on how soon you wanna release and what else problems could be in there too.
23:31:51  <tokai> Have only very little time currently on weekends.. and usually I know better things to do than fighting with C++ :P
23:31:53  <Roujin> @Anyone who cares about the waypoint statistics: Got any suggestions on how to improve the looks?
23:32:04  <Bjarni> well... use the rest of the weekend to solve the name clashes (they are really simple to fix) and then you can figure out if there are any other issues
23:32:40  <Eddi|zuHause> Brokkoli: if you forget rule 1, you always have rule 2 as fallback
23:32:46  <Rubidium> tokai: then give us a morphos install in something like pearpc so we can fix it ourselves ;)
23:32:50  <Bjarni> Roujin: cool
23:32:58  <KenjiE20> ^
23:33:09  <tokai> Rubidium: did you actually try it? maybe it just works? :)
23:33:10  <KenjiE20> also is it possible to count unique trains that pass?
23:33:15  <Bjarni> do you have room for storing the number of tons of cargo and passenger count too?
23:33:33  <Sacro> a large bucket!
23:33:40  <Roujin> Solved the network incompatibility in my local copy now by using a new command instead of directly changing the in the gui code :roll:
23:33:59  <Eddi|zuHause> tokai: last release was on 1st april, so you have one month ;)
23:34:22  <Rubidium> tokai: I seem to remember last time we discussed it it didn't work with pearpc for some reason
23:34:32  <Roujin> Bjarni: hmm, that'd be some extra variables..
23:34:55  <Bjarni> Roujin: I know that but the question if is you can find room for them
23:35:05  <Roujin> GUI wise?
23:35:13  <Bjarni> no, in the memory
23:35:22  <Bjarni> changing the window to display this isn't an issue
23:35:52  <tokai> Rubidium: Yes, I don't know the status myself; but we had some more releases in between. Who knows, maybe some stuff has changed. But probably not. :)
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23:36:24  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: waypoints are pool items, there should be found space for that easily
23:36:31  <tokai> Rubidium: I guess the Mac mini/ PPC version which is worked on could actually run fine in some Emulation then
23:36:32  <Roujin> well, the waypoint struct can be given more variables easily
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23:36:41  <Bjarni> good point
23:37:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but imho, the current "waypoints" should be completely removed
23:37:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and replaced by stations which will get a "go via" flag by default
23:37:49  <Bjarni> to get multitile waypoints
23:37:52  <Bjarni> I agree
23:38:51  <Bjarni> the single tile waypoint was due to a communication flaw and ludde didn't get the idea of multi tile waypoints so it will be a waypoint rewrite
23:39:06  <Bjarni> or reusing stations
23:39:22  <Eddi|zuHause> why not reuse stations?
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23:40:13  <Bjarni> I guess it's not that tricky to reuse stations now that we have a 64k limit
23:40:31  <Bjarni> but the limit back then before the station pool was... well you know ;)
23:40:45  <Bjarni> way too low
23:40:46  <Eddi|zuHause> in the station window, you add a checkbox "treat this station as waypoint", and trains will not stop there unless given explicit order to stop
23:41:30  <Bjarni> why being able to change this?
23:41:37  <Bjarni> it could be a parameter when building
23:41:44  <Bjarni> and not changeable
23:41:51  <De_Ghosty> we need more buttons
23:41:57  <De_Ghosty> in the order menu
23:41:59  <Bjarni> and the building price would not be the same
23:42:00  <De_Ghosty> they are too stacked
23:42:08  <De_Ghosty> i have to click so much things to get an order
23:42:25  <De_Ghosty> dislike pull down menus :o
23:42:29  <glx> btw now you can easily use a "don't stop at" order
23:42:30  <Bjarni> we need speech to text to order in the orders window
23:42:36  <Bjarni> so you can just tell it what you want to do
23:43:22  <Eddi|zuHause> glx: yes, but you need to chose that every time. plus, you cannot make "pseudo-waypoint" signs invisible
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23:44:09  <Bjarni> maybe part of the solution is to make a better orders window
23:44:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and i already had cases where i forgot to set the "go via" flag, and my passengers got heavily confused
23:44:16  <Bjarni> meaning it will be easier to set up
23:44:35  <Bjarni> hehe @ Eddi|zuHause's confused passengers
23:44:52  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i was using cargodest ;)
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23:46:16  <Bjarni> I tried being a confused passenger not long ago
23:46:30  <Bjarni> I was supposed to use the 18:42 train
23:46:39  <Bjarni> at 28:46 a train showed up
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23:46:45  <Bjarni> *18:46
23:47:09  <KingJ> I really would be a confused passenger if a 28:46 train turned up
23:47:23  <Bjarni> and at the same time as it stopped at the platform the sign about the next train changed destination and I wondered "where is this train going and can I use this one?"
23:47:49  <Bjarni> the train got delayed because they had to get people out of the train again :S
23:49:34  <Bjarni> <KingJ> I really would be a confused passenger if a 28:46 train turned up <-- well we had interesting cases of this, like when I was in a train that broke down and got more than an hour late. One guy stood on the platform and saw the sign saying 9:20, then he checked his watch that most likely was correct (10:35) and then he looked at the sign and switched like that several times while looking really confused
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23:50:14  <KingJ> heh
23:50:44  <thingwath> is that so unusual?
23:51:00  <SpComb> KingJ: perfectly logical time
23:51:07  <SpComb> 04:46 the next morning
23:51:23  <Bjarni> or this one is even better. Next train as station X as destination (this was correct) and it will not stop between A and B and it wrote A and B incorrectly, so it didn't pass any of those stations and those two stations were not even on the same line
23:51:32  <KingJ> In which case, i'd be a very tired passenger SpComb
23:51:53  <SpComb> I wish trains drove at five in the morning
23:51:56  <SpComb> it would be most convenient
23:52:02  <Eddi|zuHause> the only case mildly similar to bjarnis was that i was waiting on a platform, and the train was so late, they shoved a different train inbetween there on the same platform, so the sign changed to the new train (with accompanying speaker announcement) and later it changed back to the original train
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23:52:23  <Eddi|zuHause> some people were confused enough to try to get into the wrong train ;)
23:52:40  <Bjarni> <SpComb> I wish trains drove at five in the morning <-- if trains didn't stop driving during the night, it would have saved me at least 5 minutes that I wasted telling a guy that he missed the last train
23:53:00  <Roujin> uploaded new version of the waypoint statistics to flyspray that should now also work in multiplayer ;)
23:53:12  <Bjarni> he didn't understand that the northbound diesel train wasn't the southbound EMU that he planned to use
23:53:41  <Bjarni> I don't think this guy was clean
23:54:09  <Bjarni> in a way I hope that he wasn't because if he behaved normally then he would really be a lost cause :X
23:54:27  <SpComb> kernel tainted, support revoked
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23:55:14  <Bjarni> SpComb: you shouldn't let your kernel access the internet. Everybody on the internet ends up being tainted at some point
23:55:36  <Eddi|zuHause> i once missed a train on a sunday, and i thought there was a fallback train that i could use two hours later. but then i realised that the other train would go on every sunday, except this one. because tuesday was a holiday, so the traditional sunday schedule was moved to tuesday, expecting all people to have a free day on monday
23:56:02  <Bjarni> hehe
23:56:08  <Bjarni> sounds complicated
23:56:14  <Bjarni> here Sundays are Sundays
23:56:37  <Bjarni> and national days off are treated as Sundays, but they announce that in advance
23:56:42  <Eddi|zuHause> it's not complicated, the problem was that they didn't want to give me that monday free
23:57:05  <Bjarni> I like Sundays
23:57:12  <Bjarni> lot's of vacant tracks
23:57:41  <Eddi|zuHause> well, they say that in the schedule. "every sunday, except 29th april"
23:57:43  <Bjarni> it's also interesting to drive during the night
23:57:55  <Bjarni> like after the last train
23:57:56  <Eddi|zuHause> "... also 1st may"
23:58:27  <Bjarni> basically you can take as long as you like when you block a station due to switching work
23:58:34  <Bjarni> and you never encounter red signals
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