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00:06:14 *** NightKhaos [~nightkhao@78-86-111-126.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:08:19 *** Felicitu1 [~Felicitus@idefix.timohummel.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:09:58 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 00:10:07 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [] 00:10:23 <Yexo> Belugas: "I do not have neither the power neither the will to punish you." <- that's most likely not what you wanted to say 00:10:49 <Yexo> I think you're double negation it 00:11:01 <SpComb> "I have neither the power nor the will to ..." 00:11:01 <Yexo> s/on/ng/ 00:11:12 <SpComb> silly germans 00:12:20 *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz 00:15:34 *** OsteHovel^EEE [~OsteHovel@062016205204.customer.alfanett.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:37 <Sacro> SpComb: seconded 00:28:19 <Eddi|zuHause> SpComb: anything specific causing this spontaneous outburst? 00:28:36 <SpComb> the double negations :) 00:29:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what do the germans have to do with those? 00:29:28 <NukeBuster> Belugas isn't German... 00:32:25 <SpComb> oh, I should assume less 00:32:53 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 00:33:16 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74EE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 00:36:17 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:27 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-28-97.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 00:40:32 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has left #openttd [] 00:53:07 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 01:01:17 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:07:37 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:08:11 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:09:36 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:22:16 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-159-250.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:29:26 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e176240038.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Rhabarberbarbarabarbarbarenbartbarbierbierbar] 01:31:44 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.165.63] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:06 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: +++ Out Of Channel Error +++] 01:35:42 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:42:01 *** Yeggzzz [~mind@cpc2-rdng22-2-0-cust533.15-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:42:32 *** Brokkoli [~Brokkoli@e179197104.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. (Thomas Jefferson)] 01:48:04 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:49:18 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:50:38 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 02:09:45 <Belugas> right... 02:10:08 <Belugas> i guess i should have better let that one out 02:10:34 <Belugas> or even better: i think i'll simpy leave out the forums's life for a very long time 02:10:44 <Belugas> it's way too depressing, these days 02:13:51 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:14:17 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 02:30:58 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.41] has joined #openttd 02:46:07 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-184.hor.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 02:48:44 * Belugas goes plaing some chords 02:52:52 *** kd5pbo1 [~kd5pbo@136.242.108.177] has joined #openttd 02:53:19 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep] 02:53:55 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.108.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:37 *** lolman [~lolman@static-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:07:31 *** kd5pbo1 [~kd5pbo@136.242.108.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:08:52 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:09:02 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 03:12:25 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:15:58 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.108.177] has joined #openttd 03:27:02 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.108.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:38:42 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:40:08 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Quit: energetic] 03:42:41 *** TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:50:54 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 04:03:04 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-163-79-187.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 04:03:47 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.35.67] has quit [Quit: I love my HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 04:05:31 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 04:29:35 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@pool-98-109-159-213.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 05:19:08 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm131.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 05:28:48 *** Mark_ [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:29:26 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:29:57 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 05:37:04 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host86-163-79-187.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:44:02 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:45:19 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 06:15:55 *** lstor [~lstor@sos1-1x-dhcp178.studby.uio.no] has joined #openttd 06:33:19 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:35:38 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.108.177] has joined #openttd 06:38:05 *** el_en [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 06:49:07 *** kd5pbo [~kd5pbo@136.242.108.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:00 <el_en> Saturday, the seventh of March, two thousand and nine, Anno Domini. 06:51:09 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 06:59:54 *** Mark_ [~M4rk@5351EC68.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 06:59:57 *** Mark_ is now known as M4rk 06:59:58 *** M4rk is now known as Mark_ 07:12:31 <Alberth> at least for some of us 07:27:53 *** apo [apo@pD9E7DE5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 07:29:38 *** apo_ [apo@pD9E7BD52.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 07:45:49 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FCA3.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 07:54:54 *** Ralphis [~ralphis@216-15-110-27.c3-0.rdl-ubr1.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:02:11 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm131.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:31 *** bubersson [~bubersson@stechovice.eurosignal.cz] has joined #openttd 08:20:20 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 08:20:41 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [] 08:57:24 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F762.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:22:11 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@a82-95-167-159.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 09:26:31 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 09:29:30 *** jpm [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has joined #openttd 09:29:56 *** jpm_ [pekka@kone.suomen4g.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:36:01 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has left #openttd [] 09:36:24 *** energetic [~opera@ip82-139-119-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:03 *** flowOver [~J@S01060016e65abad7.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #openttd 09:38:28 *** flowOver [~J@S01060016e65abad7.gv.shawcable.net] has quit [] 09:44:14 *** Meincfe [~chatzilla@78.151.181.125] has joined #openttd 09:44:20 <Meincfe> hello 09:45:18 <Meincfe> can ne 1 tell me how topacth Open TTD 09:47:38 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:52:10 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@77.163.150.18] has joined #openttd 09:57:56 <Meincfe> hi 09:58:22 *** Meincfe [~chatzilla@78.151.181.125] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]] 09:58:32 <Eddi|zuHause> i have not understood a single word. 10:02:00 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.100.51] has joined #openttd 10:19:11 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has joined #openttd 10:24:18 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:24:34 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 10:25:23 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 10:25:39 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:26:43 <Alberth> He expected people to react very quickly :) 10:27:05 <planetmaker> i guess :P 10:27:20 <planetmaker> oh, and a wonderful good morning to all :) 10:33:35 <Splex> any big upgrades in openttd in the last couple months? 10:33:39 <Splex> and good morning to you 10:33:53 <Splex> or good evening...if you are in asia 10:35:06 <|Japa|> asia? eveming? 10:35:07 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:35:23 <|Japa|> I'm in india, and it's 16:05 10:35:33 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 10:36:35 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@pool-98-109-159-213.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: RS-SM] 10:37:00 <Eddi|zuHause> i guess in japan it's 18:36 10:37:26 <[wito]> more like 19:36, I think 10:38:48 <welshdragon> hmm 10:39:06 * welshdragon has built a single track line. but isn't sure if pbs will break 10:39:41 <Eddi|zuHause> PBS usually works fine with single track 10:39:53 <Eddi|zuHause> as long as you put signals only on the double track sections 10:41:23 <welshdragon> there are 'dynamic' (passing) loops 10:42:04 <Eddi|zuHause> you can put a signal halfway through the single track section, that increases throughput when two trains want to go into the same direction, but reduces overall capacity, because it can block with 3 trains 10:42:23 <Alberth> Splex: we have 0.7-beta 1, we can now download goodies in-game (newgrfs, scenario's, save-games) 10:42:30 <Eddi|zuHause> blocking risk can be reduced with one way signals, but that again reduces throughput 10:44:30 <welshdragon> thanks Eddi|zuHause 10:48:40 <Splex> alberth: cool, hows the progress on the new graphics? 10:49:04 *** JapaMala [~Japa@117.201.97.49] has joined #openttd 10:49:58 <bubersson> Splex: OpenGFX is done in moderate climate ;) 10:50:55 <Darkvater> it's a pity devving is halted on that 10:51:25 <Eddi|zuHause> http://www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Cottbus%20Transport,%207.%20Jan%201931.png <- single track sections are most effective when trains load rather long 10:51:59 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.100.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 10:51:59 *** JapaMala is now known as |Japa| 10:52:50 <Splex> Darkvater, on what? 10:52:57 <Darkvater> opengfx 10:54:18 <Splex> opengfx is drop-in replacement? 10:54:24 <Splex> how about the 32bpp gfx? 10:54:48 <Darkvater> mwa I'm not too fond of 32bpp 10:55:10 <Darkvater> there is no coherent style, no coordination, i don't see it becoming anything in the near future 10:55:16 <Darkvater> especially the BIG-tile version 11:05:09 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 11:05:24 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [] 11:05:48 <|Japa|> I want an OTTD version of the cartoon set from simutrans 11:08:33 <Splex> would be nice if there was a 3d viewer... then all the objects/buildings could begin as simple 3d objects, people could create the upgrades over time. 11:08:43 <Splex> i don't see the reason for going to 32bbp... why not just go 3d 11:10:09 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm going away for probably about a month. 11:10:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B74EE9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:20 <Splex> lol 11:10:31 <Splex> that was abrupt 11:10:44 <Darkvater> don't bother coming back, ey 11:11:37 <Splex> http://simutrans.piranho.de//images/rsgallery/original/simscr00.jpg 11:11:42 <Splex> actually that comic set looks pretty cool 11:11:45 <Splex> easy to see everything 11:12:07 <Splex> does simutrans aim to compete with openttd? 11:12:40 <|Japa|> no 11:13:35 <Ammler> can't, it would have alreadyl lost ;-) 11:13:50 <Darkvater> both games have their respective strengths 11:16:40 <Darkvater> OMG 11:16:42 <Darkvater> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7925397.stm 11:16:48 <Darkvater> "My bees are in California pollinating almonds," he said. "In the middle of March they are going to be trucked all the way across the United States all the way back to Florida to pollinate oranges then they are trucked another thousand miles north to pollinate apples in Pennsylvania. 11:16:53 <Darkvater> that's fucking sick 11:18:40 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 11:18:48 <[wito]> So who'll be making the newGRF with beehives, apple farms and orange farms? ;D 11:19:36 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 11:23:35 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #openttd 11:24:08 <Splex> they talk about the bees having various ailments... did they ever consider that they need to STOP SPRAYING? 11:24:16 <Splex> like their deaths are natural... hah 11:24:44 <Darkvater> but that would mean less profit 11:25:15 <[wito]> also, animals DO do weird things. :P 11:25:21 <[wito]> Bees are no exception 11:28:25 <Splex> surely not as weird as the animals called humans. 11:28:48 <Splex> Darkvater.... yeah... less profit, they would rather make more profit at the expense of everyone else 11:29:11 <Splex> just like the mountaintop removal coal mining 11:29:53 <Splex> http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/19834/Five_More_Arrested_Protesting_Massey_Energy_Mountaintop_Removal 11:30:05 <Splex> ""Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. said this about the Coal River Valley: âI flew over these mountains and I saw what [the coal companies] were doing and if the American people could see what I saw there would be a revolution in this countryâŠâ"" 11:34:11 *** Paul2 [~Paul@77.75.106.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:34:28 <Alberth> Oh, how much we care about the environment. 11:40:24 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejk128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 11:40:57 *** Paul2 [~Paul@77.75.106.37] has joined #openttd 11:41:17 <Splex> lol.... its funny when people say 'SAVE THE EARTH'.... the earth doesn't need saving... we are nothing but fleas on this earth... its up to us if we want to survive on this earth. 11:43:15 <Splex> brb 11:43:22 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:48:08 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.49] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:35 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 12:04:16 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051130055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 12:05:56 *** MrFrans [~MrFrans@a80-101-158-105.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:07:23 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:08:30 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet701.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 12:09:20 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 12:10:48 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:17:50 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:18 *** NukeBuster [~wouter@80.101.115.82] has joined #openttd 12:28:29 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-184.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 12:28:49 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 12:29:35 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejk128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 12:34:08 <[wito]> anyone know of any newGRFs that adds late-1800s trains? 12:34:45 <Ammler> 2cc/nars2... 12:35:28 <[wito]> I know the Japanese train set goes back to around 1920ish, no? 12:35:32 <[wito]> 2cc? 12:36:07 <Ammler> the feature is a young OpenTTD only thing, so there aren't many sets, yet. 12:37:39 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 12:39:44 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.0.17.13] has joined #openttd 12:39:44 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 12:40:33 <[wito]> what is 2cc? 12:41:08 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm131.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 12:42:42 <[wito]> oh, hah 12:42:43 <[wito]> nm 12:44:34 <[wito]> 2cc only goes back to 1913, tho' 12:51:56 <[wito]> heh 12:52:12 <[wito]> except monorail, which goes all the way back to 1880ish. :P 12:53:22 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:55:03 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:56:05 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:06 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 12:57:29 <Ammler> [wito]: no monorail in 2cc 12:57:44 <[wito]> Ammler: yeah there is 12:57:49 <[wito]> it's used for metro lines 12:58:13 <Ammler> which means, no monorail :P 12:58:25 <petern> i have a version of that that works properly ;) 12:59:02 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 13:01:12 <[wito]> so the tracs are supposed to look like metro tracks, I take it? :P 13:01:39 <Alberth> The C++ compilers nowadays give way too many warnings :P , now I have to make my patch a whole lot bigger. 13:01:46 <Ammler> or using monorail and metro the same time, I guess ;-) 13:03:10 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80D24.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 13:03:23 <Alberth> I like the idea of a monorail running through the city streets and a tram driving 300+ km/h. 13:04:53 *** Brokkoli [~Brokkoli@e179198047.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 13:05:11 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80210.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 13:05:14 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 13:06:22 <[wito]> Alberth: 300km/h+ trams are simply uneconomic 13:06:28 <Alberth> I'd like to extend the WindowDesc data structure with two fields. What would be better, modifying all instances to a constructor call with optional additional fields, or adding "NULL, 0" to each of the instances? 13:06:31 <[wito]> the start-stopping makes it silly. :P 13:07:13 <Alberth> I have seen cities that cover a large part of the map. There it may be useful 13:09:23 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.217.177] has joined #openttd 13:09:55 <[wito]> true 13:12:01 *** Timitry [~Tim@p5B37EEA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:15:38 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:15:38 <Ammler> Alberth: subway :P 13:17:11 <Alberth> you won't need any form of heating in the houses, the air friction of trams driving through the tunnels would generate enough heat probably :) 13:17:50 <Alberth> Blowing people off their feet at the stations :) 13:22:50 *** lolman [~lolman@static-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 13:23:50 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:25:30 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host148-237-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 13:25:40 <Alberth> hello Wolf01 13:25:44 <Wolf01> hello 13:32:48 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:34:39 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:09 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 13:46:52 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 13:46:55 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 13:58:12 *** bubersson [~bubersson@stechovice.eurosignal.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:37 *** bubersson [~bubersson@stechovice.eurosignal.cz] has joined #openttd 13:59:34 <el_en> http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.21150 14:08:55 *** pavel1269 [~quassel@rb5am141.net.upc.cz] has joined #openttd 14:12:47 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:37 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 14:17:50 *** Zuu [~Zuu@c-71fae253.025-58-6e6b702.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #openttd 14:18:26 *** Zuu is now known as Guest1017 14:19:16 *** Guest1017 is now known as Zuu 14:20:56 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 14:24:46 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:25:15 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 14:28:39 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 14:29:13 <[wito]> are self-plopping industries tied to the date? 14:43:38 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 14:43:38 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:27 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-52-118.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd 14:46:59 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.49] has joined #openttd 14:48:36 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:49:20 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 14:51:29 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff60d.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 14:52:27 *** NightKhaos [~nightkhao@78-86-111-126.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:54:53 *** Zahl_ [~Zahl@g227041205.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 14:56:52 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:01:20 *** Zahl [~Zahl@f051130055.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:01:20 *** Zahl_ is now known as Zahl 15:01:38 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 15:03:38 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:49 *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow 15:04:41 *** bubersson [~bubersson@stechovice.eurosignal.cz] has left #openttd [] 15:04:54 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 15:08:16 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [] 15:12:38 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 15:14:04 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 15:16:37 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 15:20:31 <Wolf01> the bananas' signup terms must be updated since now there are scenarios and heightmaps too 15:23:33 *** Splex_ [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 15:23:35 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:38:10 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 15:38:41 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-133-69.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 15:39:30 *** Ralphis [~ralphis@216-15-110-27.c3-0.rdl-ubr1.trpr-rdl.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #openttd 15:48:47 *** Splex_ [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:38 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 15:53:25 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd 15:53:28 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 15:54:36 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 15:55:30 *** DaleStan_ [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 15:55:30 *** DaleStan is now known as Guest1034 15:55:30 *** DaleStan_ is now known as DaleStan 15:56:28 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:27 *** Guest1034 [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:04:06 *** bubersson [~bubersson@stechovice.eurosignal.cz] has joined #openttd 16:10:13 *** bubersson [~bubersson@stechovice.eurosignal.cz] has left #openttd [] 16:11:04 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has joined #openttd 16:11:51 <[wito]> What is the £300 'Other' expense? 16:12:37 <Aali> life insurance 16:13:30 <[wito]> :P 16:13:47 <|Japa|> I was wonderig 16:13:58 <Alberth> or rent for the HQ, we are not sure. 16:14:12 <[wito]> Well, I don't have a HQ yet, so can't be that. :P 16:14:26 <Rubidium> fees for the chamber of commerce ;) 16:14:30 <goodger> Alberth: you already paid to build the sodding HQ, you can't rent it ¬.¬ 16:15:56 <Alberth> Maintenance costs for all the statues then? 16:16:09 <[wito]> Alberth: no statues. :P 16:16:21 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet701.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:16:38 <goodger> humm 16:16:47 <|Japa|> when I start a game and immediateley pay off my loan, there's still a monthly other payment 16:16:48 <goodger> well, the expense is being generated by code 16:17:00 <goodger> it must be possible to find out what it is 16:17:20 <Alberth> goodger: sure, it is just that nobody bothered to find out exactly. 16:17:23 <[wito]> it could be an adjustor to avoid passive companies 16:17:33 <[wito]> designed to do exactly that and nothing else 16:17:56 <goodger> possibly 16:18:15 <Darkvater> |Japa|: don't you know it costs to borrow money? Even if you had it for one day? 16:18:22 <goodger> though it'd take a long time to prevent a passive company with a £300pa cost 16:18:23 <Darkvater> banks are no charity institutions mind you 16:18:41 <goodger> specifically, 334 years before slipping into the read 16:18:42 <goodger> *red 16:19:17 <|Japa|> well, a long as it stays that, I can still watch an AI game 16:19:48 <petern> isn't it £300 a month? 16:19:49 <db48x> salary for the CEO 16:19:55 <petern> oh, no 16:19:58 <petern> hm 16:20:00 <Rubidium> banks are thieves, con artists and a legalised form of gambling 16:21:02 <Darkvater> hehe, frustrated? ;) 16:21:04 <[wito]> goodger: no 16:21:25 <[wito]> because in order to get your expenses as low as possible you'd have to repay all loan 16:21:35 <[wito]> so after the first year you'd be at least -300 16:22:07 <Rubidium> Darkvater: no, I just know too much about how banks actually work 16:22:31 <Darkvater> Rubidium: exactly like you described :) 16:23:00 <Darkvater> it's incredible that you can make so much profits, even percentually for doing nothing more than pushing OTHER people's money around 16:23:07 <Darkvater> something's really fucked up in the world 16:23:18 <Rubidium> like did you know that if you transfer money from one savings account to another that even though it seems to be on the other savings account, withdrawing it the same day will cause debit interest? 16:23:51 <Darkvater> yes...I noticed. I was furious by the way (it was within the same bank even!) 16:24:01 <Darkvater> I called them, gave'em hell and got the money back :) 16:24:10 <Rubidium> for the interest money gets basically withdrawn at 0:00 and money gets added 23:59, i.e. you lose a day of interest 16:24:34 *** Timitry [~Tim@p5B37EEA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com] 16:25:41 <db48x> banks earn money by making loans to businesses 16:25:50 <db48x> you could do that directly, if you wanted 16:26:29 <Darkvater> db48x: hehe, funny. If they really just did that, there would be no worldwide crisis right now 16:27:33 <Rubidium> did you also know that if I open a bank account and put 1 million on it that the bank then may (and will!) lend out several millions? And if they 'rinse' and 'repeat' that they lend out several tens of millions for that single million that is actually in the bank? 16:28:06 <Darkvater> about tenfold, yes 16:28:30 <Rubidium> which is why they get into HUGE problems when everybody withdraws a few percent of their savings OR when a few percent can't repay their loans 16:28:34 <db48x> they can only do that by borrowing the extra from somewhere else thoguh 16:28:48 <db48x> they don't magically create the money 16:28:56 <Rubidium> db48x: THEY DO 16:29:18 <Darkvater> ah, the innocent mind ;), what joyful times those were 16:29:42 <Darkvater> hmm, question: anyone know of an easy, simple and fast rsync program for windows? 16:29:58 <Rubidium> use wubi ;) 16:30:16 <Darkvater> eh, I don't want ubuntu on windows :) 16:30:17 <Alberth> What bothers me big time is that a simple money transfer from Holland to the UK costs 20 euro's just for the transfer. 16:30:37 <Darkvater> the UK should just introduce the EURO 16:31:03 <stillunknown> Alberth: transaction costs? 16:31:10 <Darkvater> hmm, deltacopy looks interesting 16:31:17 <Alberth> stillunknown: yep :( 16:32:56 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:33:48 <stillunknown> Alberth: i thought money transfers within the EEG were free of transaction costs if done proplerly? 16:33:58 <Darkvater> stillunknown: only euro countries 16:34:46 <frosch123> did you know that lehmann paid boni of average 0 000 per staff in 2007 :) 16:34:48 <goodger> yeah, I was once charged £10 to receive a transfer of £26.99 from Germany 16:35:18 <Darkvater> frosch123: did you know that Morgan Stanley paid a few billion in bonuses with government bailout money? 16:35:52 <Rubidium> db48x: you should watch "Money as debt" 16:36:22 <Alberth> I don't know how much money owen gets from main-land Europe, but it may be useful to setup a bank account at the other side of the channel just to avoid these costs. 16:36:25 <frosch123> Darkvater: yes, but those were for the past. 16:36:29 <stillunknown> Darkvater: well, my online banking system says otherwise, the UK is part of the European Economic Space (or whatever it's called) 16:36:54 <Darkvater> yes but with public money paid to prevent MS from going bankrupt? that's just wrong, really, really wrong 16:37:16 <Alberth> stillunknown: do a test, give owen some money, and see how much the transaction costs 16:37:21 <orudge> well 16:37:29 <orudge> I don't know what the transaction costs are on the other side 16:37:37 <Darkvater> I usually pay through paypal though...it never cost me a thing 16:37:39 <orudge> my bank tends to charge me £1 to receive from Europe these day 16:37:40 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Quit: Ð£Ñ ÐŸÐ¶Ñ Ñ ÐŸÑ Ð²Ð°Ñ (xchat 2.4.5 ОлО ÑÑаÑÑе)] 16:37:43 <orudge> (I'm sure they didn't used to, but oh well) 16:37:56 <orudge> as for PayPal, I get charged fees to receive money from anywhere 16:38:09 <orudge> with the separation of my business from my personal stuff though, I will likely get a personal PayPal account, which will be fee-free 16:38:13 <orudge> which would be better for OpenTTD, etc 16:38:16 <Alberth> orudge: would that mean it is cheaper to have you pay the transaction costs? 16:38:23 <orudge> Alberth: I doubt it 16:38:33 <orudge> I get charged the £1 anyway by my bank 16:39:56 <orudge> [16:30:15] <Alberth> What bothers me big time is that a simple money transfer from Holland to the UK costs 20 euro's just for the transfer. <-- â¬20, really? 16:39:59 <orudge> that is a rather silly amount 16:40:14 <orudge> I think most people who transfer money to me from Europe pay very little fees, if anything 16:40:17 <orudge> as in a couple of euros at most 16:40:39 <Alberth> yeah, I thought so too. 15 euro fixed cost, and some small percentage with a minimum of 5 euro :( 16:40:51 <stillunknown> I think it can be fee-less, if you have an IBAN and BIC number. 16:40:54 <orudge> I think it costs me £20 or something to send money to Australia 16:41:02 <orudge> but not to Europe, heh 16:41:05 <orudge> I do of course have an IBAN and BIC 16:41:09 * goodger pays about fifteen quid a time to pay his european royalty-payees 16:41:12 <Alberth> stillunknown: no, i used those 16:41:33 <goodger> fortunately they are contracted to have said amount deducted from said royalties, but nonetheless 16:42:24 <stillunknown> Alberth: which bank? 16:42:59 <Alberth> stillunknown: Postbank, ING nowadays 16:43:24 <stillunknown> Alberth: check the online system, it clearly says there is no fee if done properly 16:43:37 *** Hirundo [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 16:44:00 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:02 *** Hirundo is now known as Swallow 16:45:02 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:03 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 16:55:37 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.49] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The professional IRC Client :D] 16:56:08 <petern> pom te pom 16:59:26 <orudge> you're a pom 16:59:48 <petern> no u 17:04:15 <frosch123> yeah, usually I type "=" instead of "==". Now I managed to do it the other way around \o/ 17:06:17 <goodger> \o/ 17:13:15 *** Mortomes [~mortomes@i15108.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 17:14:20 *** Timitry [~Tim@p5B37EEA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:18:29 <Zuu> In delphi you have := instead of = for assignments and = instead of == for comparsion. That I handle quite fine. But VB(A) is different, there you need to use = for both cases, which comfuses me sometimes :) 17:21:41 *** Timitry [~Tim@p5B37EEA3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:01 <goodger> Zuu: that's because it's a bastardised BASIC, and BASIC was designed to be simple like that 17:23:18 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.49] has joined #openttd 17:30:27 <Alberth> I get a compiler warning in fios.cpp: http://paste.openttd.org/180140 17:31:08 <Alberth> (local copy of clean trunk) 17:31:38 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet701.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 17:35:06 <frosch123> cool attribute, never heard of it :) 17:35:20 <Alberth> me neither 17:36:00 <SmatZ> frosch123: Alberth __attribute__((warn_unused_result)) or so 17:36:16 <SmatZ> I was thinking about use it for MallocT-like functions... 17:36:24 <frosch123> SmatZ: that is also written in the paste :) 17:36:41 <SmatZ> frosch123: right :) 17:36:49 <SmatZ> *using 17:37:15 <frosch123> who would be so stupid to not use the result of malloc? 17:37:42 <SmatZ> frosch123: yeah, that was the reason why I didn't apply that ;) 17:37:49 <SmatZ> though, someone could misuse ReallocT... 17:37:59 <frosch123> :) 17:43:20 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejk128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #openttd 17:47:30 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro] 17:48:24 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:36 *** glx [glx@bny93-6-82-245-156-124.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 17:48:39 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 17:57:23 <Alberth> This looks like a good patch: http://paste.openttd.org/180141 17:58:14 *** lewymati [~lewymati@aejk128.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [] 17:58:35 <Rubidium> nah, it doesn't 17:59:19 <el_en> it certainly doesn't. 18:00:17 <Alberth> ? 18:01:31 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:41 <el_en> misuse of assert. 18:01:42 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 18:02:05 <SmatZ> Alberth: update to most recent revision 18:03:04 <Rubidium> 1) don't treat system responses with asserts because in most cases bad system responses happen when asserts are disabled (as per Murphy's law) 18:03:24 <Alberth> ah, much nicer indeed. 18:04:08 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:04:09 <Rubidium> 2) someone might intentionally create a file where the return value would be 0 thus asserting unneededly for lots of people when it gets distributed via bananas or the forum 18:06:08 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet701.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15634 /trunk/src/fios.cpp: -Fix (r15632): some compilers seem to warn about the return value of fscanf. 18:08:17 <SmatZ> CIA-1: you are late 18:08:38 <el_en> 2.5) assert is for catching conditions that are supposed to be impossible, things that should never happen. an input file containing too few integers *is not* an impossible situation, it *can* happen easily. 18:09:33 <Alberth> right, less assert(), more 'return failed' :) 18:10:25 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet701.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 18:12:02 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has quit [Quit: Caught signal 15, Terminated] 18:12:09 *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@80.247.163.137] has joined #openttd 18:12:45 <Darkvater> el_en: well, we've used this idiom for a very long time; basically: "do not trust the user" 18:13:06 <Darkvater> eg, in the beginning all CMD_ commands were checked using asserts :O 18:13:15 <Darkvater> we used to believe in the good of man 18:13:37 <Alberth> that didn't last long, I suppose :) 18:13:48 <Darkvater> no, not too long 18:15:14 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm131.psi140.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:21:10 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: +++ Out Of Channel Error +++] 18:21:43 <|Japa|> #1 in the list of people I don't trust: me 18:22:14 *** goodger [~ben@host86-148-8-231.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 18:23:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15635 /trunk/src/ (roadveh_cmd.cpp station_base.h): -Fix [FS#2707]: don't allow more than 64 road vehicles to reserve a slot at a single road stop. 255 + 1 gives trouble, but 64 is even more than the roadstop would be able to handle within the slot timeout time. 18:26:12 *** |Japa| [~Japa@117.201.97.49] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <-] 18:31:16 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:47:47 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.9] has joined #openttd 18:49:22 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 18:50:42 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-28-97.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:54:19 *** Swallow [~chatzilla@5355F5FD.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.7/2009021910]] 18:58:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15636 /trunk/src/lang/ (korean.txt unfinished/greek.txt): 18:58:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-07 18:58:32 18:58:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: greek - 211 fixed, 4 changed by hellis (215) 18:58:49 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: korean - 2 changed by dlunch (2) 19:06:15 <Alberth> finished! 19:06:47 <Alberth> (or rather, the let the games begin) 19:12:25 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [] 19:12:58 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 19:23:23 *** energetic is now known as energetic|afk 19:36:03 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-184.hor.ic.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:37:35 <Darkvater> .c 19:37:38 <Darkvater> eh :P 19:38:30 *** wollollo [~martin@dyn1076-82.hor.ic.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 19:38:58 <frosch123> trying to sync a pre c++ patch? 19:39:10 <Sacro> hmm 19:39:12 <frosch123> s/sync/apply/ 19:39:21 <Sacro> if you open an old PBS game will it convert it to YAPP? 19:39:32 <petern> no 19:39:42 <Sacro> :( warum nicht? 19:40:36 <frosch123> the readme says, old savegame should be send to sacro, he would convert them by hand 19:42:11 *** pavel1269 [~quassel@rb5am141.net.upc.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:35 <SmatZ> Sacro: the old-PBS design is very different from YAPP 19:45:44 <Sacro> it should transfer over fine 19:45:59 <Sacro> you can replace YAPP quite easily i'm sure 19:46:22 <SmatZ> how would you like to convert bidir PBS? 19:46:36 <SmatZ> there's no equivalent 19:49:01 <Sacro> i don't recall there ever being bidir PBS 19:49:44 *** RS-SM [~RSCN@pool-98-109-159-213.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 19:50:15 <SmatZ> so go and try r3472 19:50:28 <SmatZ> or rather r3470 19:52:28 <petern> i am so glad i got it removed ;p 19:53:43 <Sacro> hmm 19:53:48 <Sacro> so how did bidir pbs work... 19:54:02 <petern> it didn't work 19:54:03 <petern> it sucked 19:54:11 <SmatZ> 8-) 19:54:35 *** energetic|afk is now known as energetic 20:03:11 *** dvo [~asd@0x3e42e6e6.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:20 <[wito]> any way to upgrade town-built road bridges with tramway? 20:14:35 <frosch123> use the usual tram-build tool and click on the bridgehead 20:14:59 <frosch123> same for tunnels and competitor's stuff 20:18:41 <[wito]> hmm 20:18:49 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet701.bournemouth.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:20:05 <[wito]> worked 20:20:11 <[wito]> dunno why it didn't work before 20:25:25 *** Illegal_Alien [~Illegal_A@77.163.150.18] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 20:25:40 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@resnet701.bournemouth.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 20:38:00 *** DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-104-215.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:40:37 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has joined #openttd 20:40:57 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:48:47 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:16 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has joined #openttd 20:53:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15637 /trunk/src/gfx.cpp: 20:53:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix: when you try to protect something from doing something it shouldn't be 20:53:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: doing, make sure that the actions happening after that, doesn't start doing what 20:53:46 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: it shouldn't be doing. This of course would only happen in rare corner cases. 20:54:43 <Wolf01> 'night 20:54:52 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host148-237-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:55:36 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r15638 /trunk/src/ai/ai_config.cpp: -Fix: there is a time in your life you should stop coding for a project. You know that time is there when you make two huge mistakes in just 10 lines of code. I wish you all the best of luck :) (ps: HUGE mistakes!) 20:58:19 <frosch123> comparing unsigned stuff with zero is also my most favorite mistake :) 21:00:39 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 21:09:33 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd 21:16:58 *** Muxy [~Muxy@smtp.bdelalande.net] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org] 21:18:17 *** Maarten is now known as Guest1085 21:19:10 *** Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has left #openttd [] 21:21:26 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5FCA3.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:31:57 *** stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-228-38.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 21:36:03 <el_en> lolberg 21:36:25 <el_en> seven of nine acting as the doctor 21:36:26 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15639 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt town_cmd.cpp): -Change: When you disable "Towns are allowed to build roads", pressing "Expand" in the town window in the scenario editor will no longer build roads. 21:38:08 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 21:41:28 <el_en> succeeding well in doing so. 21:46:11 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Quit: Ð£Ñ ÐŸÐ¶Ñ Ñ ÐŸÑ Ð²Ð°Ñ (xchat 2.4.5 ОлО ÑÑаÑÑе)] 21:50:39 *** roboboy [3aad2910@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 21:57:15 <petern> doctor who? 21:57:26 <Rubidium> the 11th one 21:57:43 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:58:07 <Rubidium> petern: have you seen FS#2708? 21:58:25 <petern> no 21:58:26 <petern> but 22:03:32 *** Belugas [~jfranc@ip-186.43.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net] has joined #openttd 22:03:35 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 22:06:41 *** Ammler [~Ammler@vs241204.vserver.de] has quit [Quit: gone...] 22:07:28 <Aali> any progress on the raging memleak issue? 22:07:49 <frosch123> IIRC noone could reproduce it 22:08:15 <Aali> I can reproduce FS#2706 22:08:38 <Aali> in r15591 22:10:13 <Rubidium> the major problem is that it's hard to measure 'leaking' against normal building up caches, especially in the first few minutes 22:10:41 <Aali> on fastforward I can see the memory usage going up by the second 22:11:03 <Aali> we'll see if it slows down 22:11:06 <Rubidium> I can't (on Linux!) 22:11:43 <Aali> this is a windows machine, maybe that has something to do with it? 22:12:13 <Rubidium> that's something I've been saying for weeks 22:13:02 <Aali> funny thing 22:13:18 <Aali> if I keep it minimized, it keeps increasing forever 22:13:53 <Aali> open the window, then minimize it again, and mem usage drops by 1-5MB 22:13:56 <Sacro> forever? 22:14:03 <Sacro> that's quite an impossible thing to test 22:14:33 <frosch123> Aali: then try to locate the problem. alternate dedicated server/client, all news/no news, different video/sound drivers (esp. the 'null' ones), ... 22:18:39 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590ff60d.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:19:29 *** Ammler [~ammler@ammler.ch] has joined #openttd 22:20:15 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:27:00 *** lolman [~lolman@static-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:28 *** lolman [~lolman@static-87-102-80-68.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:32:47 *** helb_ [~helb@84.244.90.41] has joined #openttd 22:36:07 *** helb [~helb@84.244.90.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:39:06 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-190-185.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #openttd 22:40:59 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15640 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix [FS#2712]: game crashes when network pools are empty, so always allocate at least one pool block 22:41:21 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has joined #openttd 22:41:25 <heffer> anyone here for some quick debugging? 22:41:56 <heffer> i'll try to get the compile error in english 22:42:04 <PeCeT_full> hey, who has the newest (I mean 0.6.0-0.7.0 versions) version of OpenTTD for PSP? 22:42:37 <Rubidium> PeCeT_full: nobody? 22:42:49 <Rubidium> last I know of is 0.5-ish 22:42:57 <heffer> here we go: 22:42:58 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 22:42:58 <heffer> fileio.cpp: In function 'void ChangeWorkingDirectory(const char*)': 22:42:58 <PeCeT_full> I have only 0.5.3 22:43:06 <heffer> fileio.cpp:810: error: invalid conversion from 'const char*' to 'char*' 22:43:47 <glx> Aali: leaks detection on windows is quite hard 22:44:08 <SmatZ> heffer: update to trunk 22:44:08 <Rubidium> heffer: what're you using? compiler, os, etc? 22:44:08 <glx> heffer:revision? 22:44:25 <Aali> glx: indeed 22:44:33 <heffer> Fedora rawhide (to become Fedora 11) using gcc 4.4 with trunk from a few minutes ago 22:45:02 <heffer> gcc-c++-4.4.0-0.22.x86_64 22:45:51 <SmatZ> heffer: ottd is regularly tested for compilation under variaous versions of gcc ranging from gcc 2.95 to gcc4.4 22:46:22 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:07 *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd 22:47:58 <heffer> well for me it does not seem to work 22:47:59 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:21 <SmatZ> [23:44:17] <SmatZ> heffer: update to trunk 22:48:22 <SmatZ> [23:44:17] <Rubidium> heffer: what're you using? compiler, os, etc? 22:48:24 <SmatZ> [23:44:17] <glx> heffer:revision? 22:48:49 <Yexo> strrchr strikes again 22:48:51 <Rubidium> so what mutilations does fedora do to gccc 22:49:30 <Rubidium> oh... and fedora core 4 sucks 22:49:32 <heffer> well we switched to gcc 4.4 about a week ago and since in fedora it is set to be strict it revealed some bugs 22:49:36 <glx> heffer: "from a few minutes ago" is not a revision ;) 22:50:29 <Rubidium> especially because a few could (with a not-so-liberal view) mean anything between 0 and 5 minutes 22:50:32 <heffer> well if nothing in fileio.cpp changed within the last 20 minutes my revision could be assumed as being 15640 22:50:58 <heffer> but if it helps i could check out the newest trunk right now and try again 22:52:29 <heffer> Rubidium, if you hate FC4 you should try F11 when it's out :P 22:52:49 <heffer> i'm sure it can break your system, too 22:53:06 <Rubidium> that doesn't have the same compiler etc. as FC4 22:53:21 <Rubidium> which is kinda needed to debug FS#2703 22:53:51 *** stuffcor1se [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 22:56:17 <Rubidium> Patch0: gcc44-hack.patch 22:56:41 <Rubidium> that sounds very promising when it's in gcc.spec 22:58:08 <heffer> sure :) 22:59:31 <heffer> should i file a bug or is this something that can be solved quickly? 23:00:04 *** stuffcor1se [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:31 <SmatZ> I wonder where is defined strrchr should return "const char *" 23:01:44 <SmatZ> in what standard 23:02:05 <Rubidium> c++ 23:02:14 <SmatZ> hmm bad :-x 23:02:39 <SmatZ> so there are different definitions for C-like strrchr and C++-like strrchr? 23:02:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15641 /trunk/src/fileio.cpp: -Fix: some gcc compilers seem to be chosing the C++ standard for strrchr, others the C standard... 23:03:33 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has quit [Quit: Getting off stoned server - dircproxy 1.0.5] 23:03:39 *** Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has joined #openttd 23:03:44 <heffer> i'll try that 23:06:08 <SmatZ> const char * strstr ( const char * s1 , const char * s2 ); 23:06:10 <SmatZ> char * strstr ( char * s1 , const char * s2 ); 23:06:36 <Rubidium> char *strstr(const char *s1, const char *s2) <- in C 23:07:04 <SmatZ> char *strrchr(const char *s, int c); 23:07:09 <SmatZ> ............ 23:07:15 <SmatZ> pasted the wrong function, sorry :) 23:07:38 <SmatZ> but it seems if strrchr(char*,int) was used, it would return char* too 23:08:03 <heffer> works 23:09:03 <heffer> ok. i'm off then. thank you for your help. it's much appreciated 23:09:06 <SmatZ> hmm, filename is char*... 23:09:14 <SmatZ> I am failing to understand this behaviour then 23:09:39 <Rubidium> SmatZ: filename? 23:09:58 <SmatZ> ...... 23:10:06 <SmatZ> oh am I failing today! 23:10:23 <SmatZ> indeed it seems to work as expected 23:12:01 *** heffer [~felix@ip-88-152-190-185.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Connection reset by Fedora 10] 23:12:02 * Rubidium is going to break FC4 to the point that it doesn't openttd to crash in it's own libs 23:12:18 <Rubidium> or that the fracking thing does want to find out what packages it can update 23:17:23 *** PeCeT_full [PeCeT_full@host-137-99.jkns.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:29 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-28-97.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: TschÃŒÃ] 23:18:50 <energetic> `how would anyone suggest implementing a goalserver? 23:19:32 <energetic> simply patch ottd? or...? 23:21:52 <Aali> now this is just weird 23:22:17 <Aali> the minimize/maximize trick to kill the memleak works with the console window for a dedicated server 23:24:41 *** stuffcor1se [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 23:25:34 <Rubidium> so what does minimize/maximize of the console window change? 23:25:44 <Aali> who knows 23:27:32 *** Ammler [~ammler@ammler.ch] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:27:44 *** Ammler [~ammler@ammler.ch] has joined #openttd 23:27:53 <SmatZ> so even minimising+maximising console window in Windows fixes the memory problem? 23:27:53 <Rubidium> or rather, what does it trigger in OpenTTD? glx do you got a clue 'bout that? 23:28:01 <glx> none 23:28:11 <Aali> it doesn't "fix" the memory problem 23:28:17 <SmatZ> dihedral's nighly server has the same problem 23:28:31 <Aali> but memory usage drops to "normal" levels 23:28:37 <Aali> and then starts building up again 23:28:45 <Rubidium> SmatZ: that's his VPS that's acting up! 23:28:47 <glx> SmatZ: hmm he can use valgrind 23:29:04 <Aali> it seems the longer you wait, the more it drops 23:29:30 <Aali> if you let it go up to like 50MB, you can drop it to 15 in one go, but around 20-24 nothing happens 23:29:46 *** stuffcor1se [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:58 <Aali> actually, this seems really random 23:31:07 <Aali> ugh 23:31:39 <petern> heh 23:31:57 <petern> i'm fairly sure minimizing putty has absolutely no affect on openttd within screen... 23:32:44 <Aali> this is obviously some stupid windows thing 23:32:55 <Aali> the question is what openttd is doing "wrong" 23:32:56 <petern> the memleak isn't 23:33:28 <Aali> but the window thing "fixing" it is 23:34:20 <SmatZ> Aali: maximising/minimising helps? and what about just giving focus to that window? 23:34:41 <Aali> focus does nothing 23:35:49 <Aali> hmm, can you fastforward with -v null? 23:35:51 *** KritiK [~Maxim@95-24-133-69.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:13 <SmatZ> Aali: it ffs automatically iirc 23:36:42 <Aali> oh, -v null doesn't even work 23:36:44 <Aali> great 23:36:47 <SmatZ> and stops after 1000 ticks I think 23:37:07 <Aali> right, thats what I'm seeing 23:37:19 <Aali> why is that? 23:37:25 <SmatZ> it's only useful for benchmarking 23:38:00 <SmatZ> but if you mass something like -v null:ticks=1000000 23:38:05 <SmatZ> it will run for 1000000 ticks 23:38:07 <SmatZ> apparently 23:39:52 <Aali> .. and now I'm getting desyncs 23:39:54 <Aali> great 23:40:54 <Aali> dedicated server running the save from FS#2706, minus the AIs, connect with a GUI client 23:40:59 <Aali> desyncs every time 23:41:26 <glx> real desync or lost connection? 23:41:29 <SmatZ> yeah, server runs much faster than client... 23:41:42 <Aali> real desync 23:41:53 *** smeding [~smeding@5354BE76.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:53 <Aali> server is not using -v null 23:42:05 <SmatZ> I think you get "desync" if server sends two sync frames during client's connecting procedure 23:42:24 <Aali> its not instant 23:46:44 <Aali> so, anyway, made some progress, the intro screen does not leak as much as that savegame :P 23:47:12 <Aali> perhaps not at all 23:47:47 <SmatZ> Aali: does that happen only in multiplayer? 23:47:53 <Aali> nope 23:48:00 <Aali> leaks in single player all the same 23:48:24 <SmatZ> so SP leaks, but intro doesn't? ... 23:48:31 <SmatZ> and furthermore, those are not leaks 23:48:46 <SmatZ> but something like waiting events or whatever 23:48:50 <Aali> the savegame from 2706 leaks 23:48:52 <Aali> yeah 23:48:59 <Aali> intro does not 23:49:04 <SmatZ> because it gets freed when you deminimise the window... 23:49:14 <Aali> indeed 23:49:57 <Aali> is noai/squirrel throwing around a bunch of exceptions or something? 23:52:16 <glx> yes, suspend/resume is done with exceptions 23:52:46 <Aali> well, no AI's (no pun intended) are running, so that shouldn't happen, right? 23:53:26 <Aali> intro does not leak even when run as a standard SP game 23:54:13 <SmatZ> AI events are created even when no AIs are running... but are not dispatched to anyone :) 23:54:33 <SmatZ> can in theory it has something to do with Squirrel leaking? 23:54:49 <SmatZ> is GC called even when no AIs are running? 23:55:11 *** Vikthor [~Vikthor@161-18-80-78.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:55:14 <Aali> let me start some AI's on the intro game, see what happens 23:55:22 <glx> squirel does nothing if there are no AIs 23:56:23 <Zahl> Aali: just read your flyspray comment, minimizing does the trick here too 23:56:55 <glx> hmm minimizing means no drawing 23:57:11 <Aali> minimizing doesn't stop the leak 23:57:14 *** Ammler [~ammler@ammler.ch] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:57:29 <Aali> nothing stops the leak 23:57:30 <SmatZ> Aali: does minimising start the leak? 23:57:43 <Aali> doubt it 23:57:49 <Aali> lets see 23:58:00 <Zahl> isn't it that windows pages out stuff from applications if you minimize them? so it might be the "dead" memory just goes to the pagefile and won't be taken into account by the taskmanager 23:58:14 <SmatZ> so it starts "leaking" while playing, but when you minimise+unminimise it, it releases memory 23:58:16 <Yexo> <@SmatZ> is GC called even when no AIs are running? <- a seperate vm is created per AI that is running, so the GC can't even run without an AI 23:58:44 <Aali> SmatZ: seems so 23:58:53 <Zahl> or is the memory really _freed_ when you minimize 23:59:02 <SmatZ> Yexo: I see... 23:59:27 *** Ammler [~ammler@ammler.ch] has joined #openttd 23:59:43 <Zahl> because if it is, it might be a gdi issue 23:59:56 <Aali> it happens to dedicated servers