Log for #openttd on 8th March 2009:
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00:00:01  <SmatZ> Zahl: even if it leaks in dedicated server too?
00:00:07  *** Ammler is now known as Guest1099
00:00:26  <Aali> actually, it seems the intro game is leaking too, just very slowly
00:00:31  <Zahl> SmatZ: oh, didn't see that
00:00:47  * SmatZ wonders why AI::BroadcastNewEvent doesn't use FOR_ALL_COMPANIES
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00:02:00  <SmatZ> it doesn't cause leak though :-/
00:04:04  <Aali> oh and its the actual minimize that does the trick
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00:04:11  <Aali> the maximize does nothing
00:07:00  <glx> intro is stable for me
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00:07:20  <Aali> you sure?
00:07:32  <Aali> load it in SP without grfs, fastforward for a while
00:08:36  <SmatZ> Aali: a while ago you said intro doesn't leak even when loaded in sp
00:08:46  <Aali> and now I see I was wrong
00:08:51  <Aali> its just ALOT slower
00:09:00  <Aali> but it does increase steadily
00:09:57  <Aali> a year goes by in a few seconds while minimized, and the leak is still barely noticeable
00:12:04  <glx> I tried a newgame without AIs nor grnfs
00:12:15  <Aali> this is interesting
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00:12:27  <Aali> intro game with no vehicles leaks very very little
00:12:44  <Aali> not sure if its even leaking at all
00:13:24  <glx> memory is stable (virtual size 59876K, private bytes 14408K)
00:13:58  <glx> of course I built nothing
00:14:15  <SmatZ> Aali: Vista there?
00:14:50  <Aali> SmatZ: xp sp3
00:14:56  <SmatZ> :-x
00:15:06  <SmatZ> hey, I can run WXP too! :)
00:15:50  * SmatZ boots up his noteboook
00:16:00  <Aali> intro game with vehicles is at 15136k private and rising
00:16:24  <Aali> intro game without vehicles is at 12800k private
00:16:54  <Aali> the game without vehicles has been running for much longer
00:17:29  <Aali> with vehicles is in 2070, without is in 2270
00:18:02  <SmatZ> Aali: what revision are you running?
00:18:41  <Aali> r15591
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00:19:04  <Aali> its the only clean trunk I had lying around :P
00:20:31  <Aali> oh snap
00:20:32  <SmatZ> ok, running r15591, intro game in singleplayer, minised, WXP SP3
00:20:48  <Aali> the minimize/maximize thing is bogus
00:20:53  <Aali> that doesn't help at all
00:21:18  <Aali> thats all a swap thing
00:22:12  <SmatZ> now I am lost
00:22:41  <SmatZ> you were looking at "Physical memory usage" instead of "Virtual memory size"?
00:23:22  <Aali> actually I was looking at the task manager
00:23:25  <Aali> big mistake
00:24:10  <sexten> what's the hotkey to close all windows in OTTD?
00:24:15  <Zahl> del
00:24:44  <SmatZ> or shift+del to *really* delete all pinned ones :-p
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00:25:07  <Aali> game with vehicles is now up to 17012k private
00:25:19  <Aali> game without vehicles is at 12836k
00:25:21  <sexten> thx
00:26:25  <Zahl> so what we now by now is that mem usage grows faster when there are more trains.. but is it caused by the trains itself or by all the stations and cargo that is transported etc..?
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00:27:03  <Zahl> i think i'm creating a game with no industries and make lots of trains drive around :-D
00:27:16  <Aali> new industries will spawn
00:27:41  <Aali> its a good idea though, try a game with no stations or anything, just a bunch of vehicles
00:28:57  <[wito]> is YAPP in cargodest?
00:28:59  <Zahl> ok i just learned that you need at least one town to play a scenario =)
00:29:32  <Aali> [wito]: yapp is in trunk..
00:32:03  <Zahl> damn how to cheat money? :-D
00:32:44  <SmatZ> Zahl: air route between two map corners :-p
00:32:59  <SmatZ> or ctrl+alt+c .. or ctrl+1 if you are running in debug mode ;)
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00:38:46  <Aali> so, turning on all news messages and turning off all of the lost/orders/profit warnings didn't do anything
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00:53:12  <Zahl> SmatZ: just posted my config on FS
00:55:29  <SmatZ> Zahl: cache_sprites has been invalid config entry for quite long time now ;)
00:55:41  <Zahl> heh ok
00:57:05  <SmatZ> Zahl: since pre-0.4 :-D
00:57:46  <Zahl> i think i discovered ottd around 0.2.8 or so, so the cfg might actually be that old
00:57:56  <SmatZ> nah, 0.4.0 knows that variable :)
00:58:01  <Aali> so, got a game set up with no cargo moving around whatsoever, one train going around in a circle
00:58:09  <Aali> going to keep it running overnight
00:58:11  <SmatZ> but sometimes in 0.4 series it was lost :)
00:59:06  <Zahl> Aali: i got 300 trains running in circles :-D
00:59:36  <Zahl> and please don't tell me there is a feature like "clone this train 100 times"
00:59:44  <Zahl> because i cloned them one by one :P
01:00:00  <Aali> not in trunk
01:00:36  * Ralphis is away
01:00:48  <SmatZ> @seen Ralphis
01:00:48  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Ralphis was last seen in #openttd 11 seconds ago: * Ralphis is away
01:00:51  <SmatZ> bah
01:01:02  <Aali> Ralphis: next time, please don't announce that in every channel
01:01:17  <Brokkoli> he cannot hear you.. he's away ;)
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01:01:40  <Aali> he can hear me when he gets back
01:01:50  <Ralphis> its cool
01:01:53  <Ralphis> im out
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01:02:25  <SmatZ> Aali: you scared him away :(
01:02:34  <Zahl> seems pretty non-leaky to me so far here
01:02:58  <Aali> SmatZ: how is that a bad thing?
01:03:00  <Aali> :)
01:03:18  <SmatZ> Aali: "only" 114 users here now :)
01:03:33  <Aali> one down, 114 to go..
01:03:33  <SmatZ> but some time ago, there were only ~100 users
01:03:45  <SmatZ> so it seems OTTD is becoming more popular ;)
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01:08:45  <SmatZ> @seen yorick
01:08:45  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: yorick was last seen in #openttd 1 week, 6 days, 6 hours, 30 minutes, and 33 seconds ago: * yorick slaps Maarten- around with a black acer ferrari
01:10:31  <SmatZ> @seen Bjarni
01:10:31  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 4 days, 0 hours, 49 minutes, and 58 seconds ago: <Bjarni> I know I should be, but I slept during the afternoon so...
01:17:12  <SmatZ> @seen Tron
01:17:12  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: Tron was last seen in #openttd 1 year, 3 weeks, 5 days, 11 hours, 53 minutes, and 44 seconds ago: <Tron> gcc 2.95 is plain obsolete (even has several bugs in its C++ part). further at the very least the justifications given are extremely oversimplified.
01:17:30  <SmatZ> @seen ludde
01:17:30  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: ludde was last seen in #openttd 20 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 32 minutes, and 22 seconds ago: <ludde> ;)
01:17:55  <SmatZ> @seen vurlix
01:17:55  <DorpsGek> SmatZ: I have not seen vurlix.
01:17:57  * goodger slaps SmatZ's hand away from the @ key
01:18:37  <goodger> gah
01:20:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15642 /trunk/src/ (road_cmd.cpp saveload/afterload.cpp town.h town_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: use a default parameter value in CalcClosestTownFromTile
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02:07:28  <SmatZ> Zahl: it seems there is something going on... memory increased for ~12MB to ~44MB in ~3 hours...
02:07:32  <SmatZ> in my default config :)
02:08:03  <Zahl> hmhmmm
02:10:11  <Zahl> i tried memory validator in the meantime, but i don't really understand its output :-D
02:15:17  <SmatZ> Zahl: it seems "load game 500trains.sav, abandon game, load game, abandon game,... " many times increases the memory usage
02:15:20  <SmatZ> under windows
02:15:23  <SmatZ> do you agree?
02:15:33  <SmatZ> I am not sure I am measuring the memory correctly though
02:16:25  <SmatZ> I am looking at the "Virtual memory size" in the Task manager
02:18:06  <Zahl> i used the normal memory column... the virtual one actually has a value that is 100k smaller... o.O
02:18:25  <Zahl> but yes, loading the game again and again increases memory usage by about 500k for that savegame every time
02:19:45  <Sacro> i just lost the game :(
02:23:53  <lolman> D:
02:24:37  <thingwath> that is not so hard
02:30:48  <welshdragon> that's what she said
02:31:26  <SmatZ> yes, it is
02:33:43  <thingwath> play 100 years without cargodest and then turn it on, the results are wonderful :)
02:42:31  <Zahl> meh
02:42:44  <welshdragon> thingwath: is there a recent build of cargodest?
02:43:57  <thingwath> hm, not really, just some patch at the forum for ~r15500, but that is enough for me :)
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02:48:43  <SmatZ> Zahl: can it be some imperfect memory manager in windows? like allocating, freeing and then allocating memory makes some memory still marked as "Used virtual memory"?
02:49:48  <Zahl> SmatZ: maybe.. especially as it doesn't seem to happen on some other OSes
02:49:53  <Aali> err
02:49:58  <Aali> it does happen on other OSes
02:50:13  <Aali> and if that were true, every shitty windows app would leak memory
02:50:14  <Zahl> wut?
02:50:16  <Aali> they dont
02:50:20  <Zahl> on the other hand, i believe windows should be quite ok on this secotr since 2000 or XP
02:50:22  <Zahl> ok
02:50:22  <SmatZ> Aali: it does? that load&abandon&load... doesn't happen on my linux :-x
02:50:41  <Zahl> yeah, Rubidium also said he can't reproduce it on linux
02:50:57  <glx> Aali: but on other OS it's "easy" to check memory leaks
02:51:59  <Zahl> but what about the issue peter had with a linux dedicated and virtual memory.. is that related?
02:52:17  <Aali> who knows
02:52:19  <Zahl> i didn't really follow that conversation earlier
02:52:21  <Aali> there's something going on
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02:54:00  <Zahl> i'm running a linux dedicated too, should i check the mem usage? :-D
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03:20:27  <Belugas> who has memory to waste?  being virtual or real?
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03:39:03  <Zahl> nevermore
03:42:15  <Zahl> i'm leaking awakeness, should go to bed
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03:51:16  <Belugas> #thus said the raven
03:51:23  <Belugas> #NEVER MORE!
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06:31:47  <el_en> hello
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06:53:34  <Alberth> good morning
06:54:11  * Alberth is teaching vim some manners
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07:40:14  <lstor> Alberth: Isn't vim well-mannered and respectful enough as it is?
07:40:29  <lstor> It even says "Don't panic" in large, friendly letters if you say :help!
07:40:44  <Alberth> depends on your requirements :)
07:41:22  <Alberth> I code in 2 C++ projects, each with its own code style, and I want vim to switch code style depending on the dir I am in.
07:41:33  <Alberth> I convinced it to do so now.
07:41:56  <Alberth> (try that with most other editors :D )
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09:06:48  <Wolf01> hello
09:14:05  <SmatZ> hello Wolf01
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09:15:46  <Pitel> Why doesn't work? (Ubuntu 8.10, openttd 0.7.0-beta1) Playing gms with aplaymidi itself works.
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09:21:15  <Rubidium> the extmidi command must be set using -m extmidi:cmd=/usr/bin/aplaymidi I think
09:25:10  <Pitel> Rubidium: thanks, it works now :)
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09:59:48  <petern> or set in the config :o
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10:50:24  <taisteluorava> hello, is there any way to get daylenght patch to wotk in 0.7.0 beta?
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11:02:08  <Alberth> taisteluorava: yes, update the patch to the new revision
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11:15:03  <taisteluorava> how i can do that? i have installed 0.7.0beta now
11:15:51  <taisteluorava> you mean Daylength Patch [12/09/2008] Compatibility: r14293   work with 0.7.0?
11:18:30  <Alberth> You take the source of 0.7.0beta, and the latest version of the day-length patch. Merge the patch into the source, and compile the source to a binary. Voila, one 0.7.0beta with daylength patch.
11:19:06  <Alberth> Note that 'patch' here means 'source patch', the original meaning of the word.
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11:19:32  <taisteluorava> i need some kinda programming skills? ^^
11:19:48  <Alberth> at least you need to compile the code.
11:19:58  <taisteluorava> have some1 already done that?
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11:21:04  <Alberth> No idea, I never use that patch. The place to look would be in the Daylength topic in the forums.
11:21:34  <Alberth> Note that such a patched version will not work in multi-player in general
11:21:50  <Alberth> (unless everybody agrees to have that version too)
11:22:14  <Rubidium> also loading other savegames is far from guaranteed then
11:22:50  <taisteluorava> ok, se there is no idea use it now, better wait when it get intergradet with openTTD?
11:22:55  <Alberth> FYI: 0.7.0beta1 is revision 15504
11:24:05  <Alberth> I don't know whether it will ever get integrated. I kind of doubt it given the huge impact. However I am not a dev, so I may be wrong.
11:26:04  <Rubidium> maybe when it's done right it'd have a chance, but not when it totally wrecks the economy
11:27:10  <Alberth> ah, didn't think of that. I was more concerned about multi-player compability.
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11:29:09  <Rubidium> what would be MP incompatibly about it?
11:29:19  <Rubidium> s/y/e/
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11:32:11  <Alberth> Rubidium: different people wanting different speeds.
11:32:41  <Rubidium> that's like different people wanting to play different climates
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11:33:21  <Rubidium> it's something that'll be determined by the server, like ALL other game influencing settings
11:33:22  <Alberth> wouldn't that be fun? :)  But you are right, it should be a server setting
11:33:37  <SmatZ> it definitaly has to be a server setting :-p
11:33:45  <SmatZ> *definitely
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11:35:09  <yorick> it also breaks the gui dayly loops
11:35:25  <yorick> daily*
11:35:28  <taisteluorava> "- Server side setting so it can be used in multiplayer.
11:35:28  <taisteluorava> - Setting can be changed anytime during a game also during multiplayer with rcon command."
11:36:15  <Alberth> yorick: thay may become really 'daily' :P
11:36:42  <taisteluorava> so if i understand correctly, its only server which can change daylenght speed, so clients can not affect to that
11:37:15  <SmatZ> most likely :)
11:37:37  <taisteluorava> but does clients have this patch too?
11:37:40  <SmatZ> it should work this way unless it's broken
11:37:41  <SmatZ> yes
11:38:18  <Alberth> taisteluorava: everybody must use exactly the same version in MP
11:38:30  <taisteluorava> yeah
11:38:54  <SmatZ> apart from client-side patches...
11:39:21  <SmatZ> that don't influence gameplay
11:40:08  <Alberth> Wasn't there a dev recently, that said that all settings influence gameplay? :P
11:41:17  <taisteluorava> and is there "build in" ranking system or it some kinda server addon?
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11:41:35  <yorick> console needs linewrappings :/
11:42:56  <Alberth> taisteluorava: not sure what you are referring to. Is it some MP feature? (I never play MP)
11:43:02  <SmatZ> Alberth: true :) I just can't find the right words for that... maybe ... "patches that change only the feeling from game, but not the internal logic"?
11:43:56  <yorick> SmatZ: patches that do not influence network traffic in any fatal way
11:44:51  <Alberth> SmatZ: we make all windows red for that warm fuzzy feeling :)  But I understand what you mean, all patches that only modify how it looks
11:45:17  <yorick> like the copy-paste patch, you mean
11:45:19  <yorick> :p
11:45:23  <SmatZ> :-)
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12:27:38  <yorick> the connect console command is broken, it checks IsValidCompanyID before connecting to the server
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12:33:58  <Alberth> And we're back, one keyboard down, two to go
12:34:26  <frosch123> coffee? tea?
12:34:39  <Alberth> coffee (black luckily)
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13:36:22  <Bennythen00b> Where does the developers hang  out? Is it here?
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13:37:01  <|Jeroen|> yes
13:37:20  <Bennythen00b> Is there anyone here now?
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13:42:52  <glx> why do people don't ask their questions instead asking if devs are here?
13:43:24  <SmatZ> he doesn't seem to be very smart
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13:43:49  <glx> hehe
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13:48:19  <Zahl> lol
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14:02:55  <Alberth> shh, this is the first time he is so close to the real developers, let him enjoy the moment.
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14:14:12  <smeding> SmatZ, he *did* ask
14:14:19  <smeding> it's just that his question was "what?"
14:14:19  <smeding> :p
14:15:12  <pavel1269> hi
14:16:20  <Singaporekid> hello can i ask a question
14:17:08  <SmatZ> smeding: now it makes sense :-p
14:17:10  <SmatZ> Singaporekid: no
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14:18:03  <frosch123> please direct complains directly to DorpsGek. he has an ear for everyone
14:18:33  <yorick> lol
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14:19:17  <SmatZ> hehe
14:20:10  <pavel1269> wasnt he DorpSek?
14:20:18  <pavel1269> :-)
14:21:19  <yorick> DorpsGek is the village(channel) idiot ;)
14:21:23  <Alberth> SmatZ: the right response was "yes, you just did"
14:21:41  <SmatZ> :-p
14:22:03  <pavel1269> but, he used to DorpSek, i am almost sure :-)
14:22:08  <thingwath> so the correct version is "can I have two questions?"
14:22:31  <yorick> pavel1269: he was never DropSek
14:22:38  <yorick> or DorpSek
14:22:43  <Alberth> anybody that smart will simply start asking the second question :)
14:22:44  <pavel1269> hmm
14:23:07  <yorick> DorpsGek means village idiot in dutch =
14:23:16  <SmatZ> :-x
14:23:44  <yorick> ?
14:23:51  <pavel1269> !vcs
14:23:56  <pavel1269> :-)
14:23:57  <Rubidium> pavel1269: DorpsGek has never been known as DorpSek
14:24:07  <yorick> pavel1269:
14:24:11  <yorick> @vcs
14:24:51  <pavel1269> Rubidium: i am sure, that he had another name :-)
14:25:02  <pavel1269> yorick: ty
14:25:50  <Rubidium> pavel1269: please state the date + time + timezone where the bot was called differently
14:26:08  <pavel1269> i dont have logs :-)
14:26:30  <yorick> @logs
14:26:32  <yorick> !logs
14:26:37  <yorick> meh :/
14:26:53  <yorick>
14:27:50  <Rubidium> my few years of logging only show 3 lines with that name
14:28:10  <Rubidium> of which two are yours and one is mine
14:28:14  <SmatZ> hehe
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14:36:36  <energetic> AlbertH: nice widget explanation
14:37:05  <frosch123> petern: <- any concerns from you?
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14:38:33  <Alberth> energetic: tnx
14:39:48  <Alberth> energetic: at least it is a LOT smaller as first patch than the previous attempt. The route to the final target will however be longer most likely.
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14:42:42  <energetic> one question however (I only skimmed through the pdf atm):
14:43:13  <energetic> I can use nested widgets into new patches only when I combine it with yours, isnt it?
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14:44:15  <Alberth> until it is integrated in trunk, yes.
14:44:45  <energetic> right.
14:44:58  <Alberth> You could use it as a generator though, define it in the nested widget parts, and print out the resulting widget array
14:45:11  <yorick> energetic: you're on the patch tour?
14:45:30  <energetic> somehting bigger :)
14:45:58  <Alberth> energetic: well, I have about 40 windows that need to be nestified :D
14:46:25  <energetic> Kurt anounced to stop his Kurts Hard Goal servers, OHG is a re-creation of his idea (for now:blatant copy of his work using 07 base)
14:46:56  <energetic> The reason I am into widgets/patching ottd code is because I want to add/change competition functionality
14:46:57  <yorick> yay, less competition :p
14:47:35  * yorick is also working on a patch that could be used for recreating the kurt servers
14:47:48  <energetic> So I was busy doing three patches, two finalized, now working on a gamerserver
14:48:08  <energetic> OHG=community effort to accomplish this
14:48:22  <yorick> you know about my chat command implementation?
14:48:33  <energetic>
14:48:34  <energetic> no
14:48:48  <energetic> OHG started just friday
14:48:59  <energetic> Maybe you can add infoonto our wiki?
14:49:11  <energetic> #oopenttd-hg
14:50:06  <JapaMala>
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15:19:18  <energetic> Alberth: I was/am working on the town window
15:19:24  <energetic> adding filter+sorting
15:19:44  <energetic> so that makes it 39 :)
15:20:25  <energetic> --> v
15:20:27  <energetic>
15:20:35  <Alberth> could you please post it at my topic, that way it does not get lost.
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15:21:36  <energetic> sure
15:21:41  <Alberth> oh the town vs city indication isn't it?
15:21:51  <energetic> by the way: you are planning to redesign the interface of ottd using nested widgets...?
15:22:03  <energetic> yes, and I am adding more stuff to it
15:22:22  <energetic> desert/jungle/snow
15:22:39  <Alberth> for now I'd be extremely happy already just to get it in trunk without any external changes.
15:22:47  <energetic> :)
15:23:04  <energetic> I read a bit more of it thouroughly now, it seems well thought
15:23:12  <Alberth> just the nested widget parts array would be sufficient for posting I think
15:23:22  <energetic>  have some small things, i will shoot on you in the topic
15:23:32  <Alberth> k
15:23:40  <energetic> btw, maybe make the pdf into wiki
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15:24:47  <Alberth> first stuff in trunk, until then everything is running ahead
15:25:27  <Alberth> but in the FS are the sources
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15:26:35  <Alberth> not sure whether you can get the pictures out cleanly, but I can generate them again, in many formats (all output formats of xfig :) )
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15:46:59  <planetmaker> g'day
15:47:09  <pavel1269> hi
15:47:40  <|Japa|> heey
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16:10:53  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r15643 /trunk/src/ (10 files): -Fix [FS#2711]: be more strict with zeroing unused map array bits
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16:14:28  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15644 /trunk/src/network/network.cpp: -Fix [FS#2710]: closing a network connection twice in the case that sending packets starts failing while disconnecting
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16:51:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15645 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r12924)[FS#2612]: Add an EngineOverrideManager to give the term 'compatible newgrf' again some sense and to not crash because of trivial changes.
16:53:40  <petern> pah, that's a feature, not a fix
16:55:14  <frosch123> -Feature: Do not crash.
16:55:25  <frosch123> :)
16:56:51  <petern> -Feature: Be lenient on users who do stupid things
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17:07:46  <energetic> It came to my attention that in the future, the so-called sync-check will be changed to be server-side. This is correct?
17:08:43  <petern> pardon?
17:09:30  <yorick> petern: sync seed check at the server, so clients send their seed to the server instead of the opposite
17:10:32  <energetic> right
17:10:34  <petern> is this correct? heh
17:11:01  <energetic> in other words: do plans exist for this
17:11:18  <glx> may I ask why?
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17:11:44  <yorick> because they want to use something similar to that python bot I worked on
17:11:48  * frosch123 senss trouble in #tycoon
17:14:16  <energetic> As i said earlier, we are making a goalserver implamentation. Right now, we are loking into the various ways of how to get this done. One of the solutions mentioned would be a python implementation clientside, which would need to maintain the clientside state, if the syn check would be implemented server-side
17:14:36  <energetic> ie a bot connecting to a server
17:14:44  <petern> < pom te pom, unless there's a better way for those uint32s..
17:15:40  <energetic> if it is indeed the case that the sybc check would go serverside, the ython bot implementation would fail hooribly
17:17:39  <petern> why does it matter where a sync check is? a desync is a desync...
17:17:53  <SpComb> non-official clients would need to maintain a random seed?
17:18:18  <SpComb> or do spectators do sync checks?
17:19:06  <petern> all clients do
17:19:16  <SpComb> would be fun if spectators didn't
17:19:25  <SpComb> then you could introduce random errors and see what interesting things happen
17:19:28  <petern> hilarious fun
17:19:32  <SpComb> rather
17:19:42  <petern> especially now they can switch companies at will
17:19:42  <yorick> people get randomly kicked
17:19:47  <yorick> that's what happens :p
17:19:58  <SpComb> a spectator can't change anything
17:20:21  <yorick> petern: because python can't maintain a sync check
17:20:45  <energetic> (unless you implement the complete state in the bot)
17:21:00  <SpComb> does the game state feed back into the RNG?
17:21:03  <energetic> which is kinda the point in not doing that :)
17:21:09  <SpComb> sync check is only the random seed, no?
17:21:35  <yorick> yes
17:21:46  <Mark> Is there any Grf that allows railroads to be combined with roads? (Like tramways, but with singletrack for railroads)
17:21:55  <michi_cc> petern: if (NeedRailTypeConversion()) { in AfterLoadLabelMaps() was not good enough? :)
17:22:03  <yorick> he spoke!
17:22:38  <yorick> :)
17:22:46  <petern> michi_cc: currently yes
17:22:50  <energetic> Mark -> level crossings :D
17:23:37  <Mark> Yeah, not like that though ;)
17:23:43  <petern> Mark, no.
17:23:56  <Mark> Mkay, thanks anyway :)
17:24:19  <Mark> Is there a Grf for arrow guage then? (891mm)
17:25:13  <petern> yes, although i can't gaurantee it's eactly 891mm
17:25:21  <michi_cc> petern: okay, I don't know what else you've planned, it's just looking a bit strange in that patch
17:25:25  <Mark> Mkay, URL? :)
17:25:26  <petern> yorick: why does python need to maintain a sync check
17:25:33  <petern> Mark:
17:25:53  <yorick> petern: if the sync seed check is moved to the server, clients are expected to send their seed, and a python client can't
17:26:33  <petern> great
17:26:39  <Ammler> Mark, hehe just realized, you stole the nick of an old openttd player. ;-)
17:26:52  <petern> then i'm all for moving it server side, in the interests of extra security
17:27:01  <petern> "Mark" is hardly an obscure name
17:27:03  <SpComb> petern is against OpenTTD as an open platform!
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17:27:23  <petern> SpComb, they're welcome to maintain the game state in python
17:27:26  <Mark> Ammler: hmm, have noticed that :P
17:27:36  <SpComb> petern: easy to say that
17:27:40  <frosch123> petern: why don't you just use CH_ARRAY and read uint32 ?
17:27:48  <Mark> I usually use Markk, but this was a sec. nick and I liked it :)
17:27:58  <petern> frosch123: how?
17:28:13  <Ammler> Mark: I was wondering, why he ask such obvious things.
17:28:28  <frosch123> just like the engine data or newgrf config is stored?
17:28:31  <yorick> 18:26 < SpComb> petern is against OpenTTD as an open platform!
17:28:39  <yorick> spread the word
17:28:42  <petern> into a local variable?
17:28:49  <Rubidium> shouldn't line 49 and 51 of railtypemap2.diff be merged?
17:29:40  <Rubidium> and nice that it mentions road types also ;)
17:30:03  <frosch123> static std::map<EngineID, Engine> _temp_engine; <- just like that?
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17:30:14  <petern> not exactly a local var :o
17:30:21  <petern> but
17:30:51  <frosch123> but a local var should also work
17:31:57  <energetic> so the question remains: is it the planning to eventually implement the sync check server-side?
17:32:11  * petern removes the road type mention, as that's pretty much the only 'code' for it so far ;p
17:32:40  <SmatZ> for a while I thought petern commited his roadtypes / railtypes stuff :-)
17:36:56  <Sacro> :o
17:37:39  <Sacro> sigh, can i be arsed to code a singly linked list
17:38:03  <glx> that's easy
17:38:09  <glx> double linked is harder
17:39:09  <Sacro> Yeah true
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18:08:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r15646 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix: Be lenient on users who do stupid things like loading newgrfs statically, which modify engine names, while dynamic_engines is enabled or the to be modified engine is not (yet) present.
18:08:53  <frosch123> s/Fix/Feature/
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18:10:05  <petern> o_O
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18:21:15  <energetic> Several ways of implementing a "goalserver" are available. Those are: 1. using stdin and stdout (like autopilot) and implement custom commands, 2. patch ottenttd and add functionality to c++ trunk, 3. write a bot that controls a server instance, 4. implement squirrel API commands into trunk and write a serverbot in squirrel. My questions here are: 1. what do you think is the 'best solution' in relation to the openttd codebase, and why, and
18:21:15  <energetic> other ways did I not mention?
18:22:52  <Yexo> How is 3. different from 1. or 2.?
18:23:50  <Yexo> depending on how complex your goals are I think the easiest is to change the c++ code a bit to check for them, and print something to the console if they are reached. (so a combination of 2. and 1.)
18:28:04  <energetic> not really, 3 is a more generic description
18:28:31  <energetic> except 2 is meant to be c++ patches on openttd only
18:28:54  <energetic> 3 is having two apps: openntd fork+server code
18:30:53  <energetic> full user management, full ottd game engine access, webinterface
18:33:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15647 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
18:33:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-03-08 18:32:50
18:33:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: arabic_egypt - 2 fixed, 20 changed by khaloofah (22)
18:33:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 1 fixed by arnaullv (1)
18:33:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: dutch - 4 changed by Yexo (4)
18:33:27  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 3 fixed by WhiteRabbit (3)
18:33:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 fixed, 1 changed by jpx_ (2)
18:38:30  <|Japa|> yay!
18:38:38  <|Japa|> as of 8 minutes ago, I'm 22
18:40:04  <energetic> grtz. -> exact birth time or midnight?
18:41:11  <SpComb> did you know that the Chinese (and other asians) count their age from the time of conception, rather than physical birth?
18:41:29  <Sacro> ooh, squelchy
18:42:25  <Sacro> when they did the nasty in the pasty
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18:44:19  <|Japa|> midnight
18:47:23  <SpComb> it might be a bit more akward to figure out your exact birth-minute with that reckoning
18:47:50  <frosch123> only a matter of a proper diary
18:48:28  <Prof_Frink> SpComb: Depends how regular your milkman is
18:49:28  <Sacro> he can certainly keep a good rhythm going
18:50:11  <thingwath> I would rather count remaining time, not age.
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18:56:43  <energetic>  4. implement squirrel API commands into trunk and write a serverbot in squirrel. -> and add a squirrel mysql plugin. Make squirrel a scripting language for servers so anyone can create their own KHG, OHG, whatever server they have in mind :)
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19:33:45  <petern> KHG? OHG?
19:34:00  <Felicitus> petern: kurt's hard goal and ottd hard goal
19:34:05  <petern> oh
19:34:22  <petern> well nobody else knows or uses your acronyms
19:34:29  <petern> or, indeed, abbreviations
19:34:54  <energetic> yes sorry
19:35:10  <petern> +remember :o
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20:50:19  <el_en> waiter, there's a bjarni in the soup!
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20:58:40  <murr4y> it's for extra spice :)
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21:02:00  <Bjarni> <el_en> waiter, there's a bjarni in the soup! <-- you want a black soup?
21:02:26  <Bjarni> I managed to get sod on my face the other day. I noticed in a mirror hours after it arrived :s
21:03:42  <petern> sod, eh?
21:04:14  <Prof_Frink> Mr S. Baldrick
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21:29:33  <Bjarni> <petern> sod, eh? <-- yeah... I partly opened the fireplace and looked into the chimney
21:29:51  <petern> so
21:29:55  <Bjarni> fixing the issue we had with draft in the chimney
21:30:06  <petern> what is 'sod' in bjarnish?
21:32:09  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni is a small yellow hand puppet.
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21:34:14  <Wolf01> a yellow Elmo
21:35:03  <Bjarni> I have seen the word "sod" being used about the black stuff in chimneys
21:35:14  <Bjarni> however right now I can't even find a name for it in English
21:35:20  <Bjarni> sod or anything else :s
21:35:21  <Wolf01> ash?
21:35:24  <Bjarni> no
21:35:28  <Bjarni> ash is burned stuff
21:35:44  <Bjarni> I'm talking about the unburned sticky powder
21:35:49  <Prof_Frink> Wolf01: No... Sooty.
21:35:53  <Bjarni> which is actually burnable
21:36:03  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: The word is "soot".
21:36:07  <Wolf01> ahahaha
21:36:26  <Bjarni> meaning if you treat your fireplace incorrectly you can put fire on it on the inside of the chimney
21:36:36  <Bjarni> and houses have been burned to the ground due to this
21:36:53  <Prof_Frink> You need Sooty's friend, Sweep.
21:37:56  <Bjarni> actually we had a visit from a chimney sweep like a week ago
21:37:59  <Wolf01> really? the chimney passes through my bedroom... luckily the winter is about to end
21:38:43  <Bjarni> <Wolf01> really? the chimney passes through my bedroom... luckily the winter is about to end <-- hehe. It's not a high risk so I guess I scared you too much
21:39:30  <Bjarni> however you can get issues if you burn incorrectly. This means putting stuff like plastic is not only bad for the environment, it's also dangerous for your house
21:39:53  *** juqisarip [~juqisarip@] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
21:40:08  <Bjarni> but burning pure dried wood at a high temperature with enough air will make this risk close to not there at all
21:40:21  <Bjarni> but you have to get a visit from a chimney sweep once or twice a year
21:41:42  <Bjarni> <-- this is what I get when I searched for soot. I would have grounded that truck right away since either it's not supposed to do that or even worse: the engine has a design flaw
21:43:33  <Bjarni> either way that smoke shouldn't be allowed (and might in fact be illegal)
21:45:36  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: That truck looks american.
21:45:46  <Prof_Frink> So yeah, the engine has a design flaw.
21:49:31  <Bjarni> I wonder about America and diesel engines
21:49:54  <Bjarni> I mean more than once the GM diesel locomotives here have given me a headache
21:50:07  <Bjarni> once one of them made me vomit D:
21:50:36  <Bjarni> it just passed by at high speed but it was a foggy morning and the exhaust was stuck in the air and I ended up vomiting
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21:50:40  <SmatZ> "America" and "diesel truck"?
21:52:44  <Bjarni> however at the same time I didn't even feel bad when I started our Danish designed and built locomotive.... indoor
21:54:16  <Bjarni> I guess I would have died if it were one of those GMs
21:55:28  <MrFrans> Any suggestions on a good tar archiver for windows?
21:55:33  <Sacro> tar?
21:55:37  <Bjarni> (it goes without saying that there were ventilation to get fresh air, but it were somewhat inefficient)
21:55:42  *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
21:55:42  <MrFrans> yes
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21:56:07  <Bjarni> is windows able to handle tar correctly?
21:56:10  <Prof_Frink> MrFrans: 7zip
21:56:18  <MrFrans> Cool thanks.
21:56:32  <Bjarni> I mean can windows even handle tar at all without 3rd party software?
21:56:45  <Prof_Frink> Nope.
21:56:53  <KingJ> Only ZIP
21:57:14  <Prof_Frink> but 7zip seems to handle any archives I throw at it at work
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21:57:32  <Bjarni> I don't think I have a problem with anything except rar before I installed anything 3rd party
21:58:21  <Wolf01> windows is not able to handle filenames which start with . lpt com and aux, how do you can think about a "can windows handle x correctly?" question?
21:58:48  <Bjarni> heh. Good point
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22:00:18  * Rubidium wonders whether wubi qualifies as a tar archiver 'for windows'
22:01:43  <taisteluorava> is there any easy way to play with openGFX graphics without those blackbox, any way to get original graphics over black box's, so both graphics is combinated
22:02:14  *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
22:02:30  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: It's dead.
22:02:38  <Sacro> no, what i meant was, why not use 'tar'
22:03:30  <Yexo> taisteluorava: no, unless you fix those grf files yourself
22:03:57  <taisteluorava> ok
22:04:42  <MrFrans> That worked Prof_Frink, eventhough openttd throws a error about the grf being missing or corrupt, the grf is loaded.
22:05:07  <taisteluorava> will that openGFX get finished someday, or is 32bit graphic coming over it?
22:05:15  <Sacro> *snigger*
22:05:49  <Yexo> taisteluorava: I hope it'll get finished, as you still need valid 8bpp graphics before you can use 32bpp graphics (black boxes are valid though)
22:05:50  <Prof_Frink> Sacro:
22:06:22  <Sacro> OH NOES D:
22:07:06  <Prof_Frink> I loved ilovehorses, best of all the rickroll-esque sites.
22:07:20  <taisteluorava> ok, thx yexo
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22:09:31  <Wolf01> I once found a nice gif with one busty girl shown for 1 second and then Rick Astley singing, I wanted to show it to Sacro but I lost it :(
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22:16:16  <glx> <Prof_Frink> but 7zip seems to handle any archives I throw at it at work <-- 7zip can even open some dmg
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22:20:50  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I was looking into @openttd bugs, and see if Flyspray had its XMLRPC server back already .. but it appears FlySpray is .. well .. a bit dead :d
22:21:32  <Rubidium> I already noticed that
22:21:43  <TrueBrain> I might be a bit late with that conclusion, I know ;)
22:21:57  <Rubidium> but there has been like one commit this year
22:22:33  <TrueBrain> and they do close bugs on their bug-tracker! :p
22:22:59  <Rubidium> with won't fix or so?
22:23:16  <TrueBrain> yup :p
22:23:18  <TrueBrain> not a bug even
22:23:38  <TrueBrain> so it might be a good idea to start looking for any kind of other bugtracker ..
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22:25:17  <NukeBuster> are there known to be compile issues with r15647(today's nightly)
22:25:25  <NukeBuster> ?
22:25:34  <TrueBrain> did the nightly compile for all targets? :p
22:25:36  <Rubidium> yeah, broken compilers create broken code ;)
22:25:57  <Rubidium> but that's with almost all versions of OpenTTD ;)
22:25:58  <NukeBuster> so my compiler is broken :P
22:26:32  <Bjarni> I guess you nuked your compiler then :P
22:26:42  <NukeBuster> what version of gcc should openttd be compiled with then?
22:26:53  <NukeBuster> i have been able to compile openttd before without problems...
22:26:59  <TrueBrain> not < 2.95.3 :p
22:27:19  <Rubidium> not branches/lto
22:27:35  <TrueBrain> not the one with cxx support
22:27:40  <TrueBrain> one = ones
22:28:14  <NukeBuster> hmm, I have 4.1.2
22:29:11  <Rubidium> TrueBrain, about FS: it's working without any problems right now so I don't see a reason to use another tracker and keep this one too to not lose the current 'bugs'
22:30:05  <Rubidium> NukeBuster: what OS etc. are you using?
22:30:33  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: true, I just hope any exploits stay away ;)
22:31:24  <NukeBuster> I'm running CentOS 5.2
22:31:33  <NukeBuster>
22:31:39  <NukeBuster> the errers i'm getting
22:31:43  <NukeBuster> *errors
22:31:57  <Wolf01> 'night
22:32:03  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:32:03  <NukeBuster> night
22:32:16  <Rubidium> ieuw... half-translated error messages
22:32:27  <NukeBuster> sorry
22:32:43  <NukeBuster> fout == error
22:32:59  <TrueBrain> NukeBuster: he knows .. believe me he does :p
22:34:28  <NukeBuster> am I missing a new dependency?
22:34:46  <Rubidium> NukeBuster: looks like your compiler is broken
22:34:58  <Rubidium> _switch_mode REALLY is defined
22:35:05  <NukeBuster> hmm... I haven't had issues with openttd before...
22:35:19  <Rubidium> unless... maybe... your makedepend is acting up
22:35:23  <Rubidium> try a make clean all
22:35:32  <TrueBrain> always the way to success ... ;)
22:35:45  <NukeBuster> ok, i'll try that
22:37:04  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I would like to update trac to 0.11 .. but I am unsure what manual changes we made :p
22:37:14  <TrueBrain> (we really had a lack of documentation there :p)
22:37:55  <Rubidium> powered by leaseweb in some template and the config files were modified
22:38:04  <TrueBrain> also what pages are viewable and shit ..
22:39:07  <Rubidium> that was the config file IIRC
22:39:18  <TrueBrain> and the last question of the day: has there ever be any need to revive the maillist? (patch / dev / user)
22:39:38  * Rubidium hasn't missed it
22:39:51  <Sacro> i have :(
22:40:21  <TrueBrain> of course you have Sacro :p
22:40:38  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I will be trying to install the new trac tomorrow or so .. I have a few idea to check if we modified the source or not ;)
22:40:42  <Bjarni> Sacro: the history goes that whenever somebody used it, nobody replied
22:41:04  <Bjarni> so if we should use it now, we should assign useful people to reply to it
22:41:10  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: good luck and have fun
22:41:16  <TrueBrain> fun ... FUN?! :p
22:41:28  <Bjarni> installing strange software is always great fun
22:41:53  <Rubidium> debugging stuff without access to hardware is even more fun ;)
22:41:59  <glx> indeed :)
22:42:06  <TrueBrain> have a failing network connection is also fun :p
22:42:16  <TrueBrain> although the last few nights it seems to go fine ... :p
22:42:35  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: anyway, I also want to look into updating all the other software (mercurial, git, svn) .. we are getting a bit out-of-date ;)
22:42:38  <glx> having network in pearpc is even more fun
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22:42:57  <TrueBrain> just disable the signals for 10.3.9, and be done :p
22:43:59  <TrueBrain> #ifdef __APPLE__\n#define signal(a) if (MacOSXAtLeast(10, 4, 0)) signal(a)\n#endif
22:44:05  <TrueBrain> problem solved! :p
22:44:33  <TrueBrain> well, maybe 'a' should be 'a, b', but that are just details :p
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22:46:34  <Rubidium> not like that?
22:46:55  <TrueBrain> I can do it in 3 lines :p
22:47:32  <Rubidium> I can do it in 2 lines of which 1 is a whiteline ;)
22:47:46  <TrueBrain> I assumed the #ifdef was required ;)
22:48:04  <Rubidium> wrong assumption for os/macosx/macos.h
22:48:04  <Bjarni> well... I did it quickly to get something to test. Like a proof of concept. I never intended to commit it like that
22:48:24  <Bjarni> it would at least need comments
22:48:35  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: tnx for pointing that out ;)
22:48:44  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: it is just overkill ;)
22:48:56  <TrueBrain> a complete function what an #define can do on its own ;)
22:49:27  <TrueBrain> and in case you need that NULL, make it a ternary ;)
22:50:04  <Bjarni> ternary?
22:50:19  <TrueBrain> MacOSXAtLeast(10, 4, 0) ? signal(a, b) : NULL
22:50:41  <TrueBrain>
22:50:43  <TrueBrain> :p
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22:52:19  <Bjarni> ahh
22:52:41  <Bjarni> that's English for you: there is a word for more or less everything
22:52:51  <Bjarni> the issue is that the users tend not to know all the words
22:53:00  <Rubidium>
22:53:42  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: looks nice :)
22:53:48  <TrueBrain> Bjarni: clearly you haven't been long enough in this channel ... :p
22:54:19  <TrueBrain> I love the comments Rubidium :p
22:54:30  <Bjarni> yeah it's nice comments
22:54:50  <Bjarni> I just wonder what will happen when somebody uses signals for something else
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22:55:17  <Rubidium> then crash handling'll fail for 10.3.9
22:55:22  <TrueBrain> :p
22:55:29  <TrueBrain> that seems obvious :)
22:55:29  <Bjarni> great
22:55:35  <Bjarni> not my problem then :P
22:55:48  <TrueBrain> signals can never be mandatory anyway :)
22:56:37  <Bjarni> unless somebody really wants to use 10.3.9 and pays me for fixing the issue
22:56:49  <TrueBrain> I don't think there is enough money in the world
22:57:04  <Bjarni> there is
22:57:09  <Bjarni> but you don't have them :P
22:57:29  <TrueBrain> no living human has ..
22:57:51  <Bjarni> I disagree
22:57:59  <glx> Bjarni: it's even impossible to compile something for 10.3.9 on 10.3.9 ;)
22:57:59  <TrueBrain> I think you need to patch OSX :p
22:58:01  <TrueBrain> haha
22:58:23  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: why can't signals be mandatory?
22:58:24  <Bjarni> if I get enough money then I can pay Apple to fix OSX if needed
22:58:31  <Rubidium> It's in the C++ specs
22:58:42  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I meant it in the way: that your code depends on SIGABRT or something :p
22:59:00  <TrueBrain> well .. SIGHUP1 might be useful :p
22:59:03  <TrueBrain> does windows understand that? :)
22:59:25  <glx> I guess it's just because we use 10.4u SDK to compile for 10.3.9
22:59:45  <TrueBrain> glx: enough #ifdefs should fix that ;)
23:00:24  <TrueBrain> just ... the version detection would need to be forced to a value I guess ;) :p
23:00:57  <TrueBrain> (when compiling on 10.3.9 of course :p)
23:01:01  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: only SIGABRT, FPE, ILL, INT, SEGV and TERM are defined by the C standard (and thus C++ as it refers explicitly to the C standard for signals)
23:01:11  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: too bad
23:01:20  *** KingJ [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
23:01:29  <TrueBrain> glx: btw, what suprises me, is that there are no bug reports about it .. clearly nobody tries it and expects it to work ;)
23:02:26  <glx> the biggest surprise was a complaint about "broken" nightly on 10.3.9 two months after the commit ;)
23:02:39  <TrueBrain> wasn't 0.7.0-beta1 which triggered the report to be send? :p
23:02:44  <Bjarni> I think it's more like if people know how to compile they wouldn't use 10.3.9 anymore
23:02:47  *** dfox [] has joined #openttd
23:02:54  <TrueBrain> but yeah :) Clearly Apple did a nice job getting 10.3 replaced ;)
23:05:15  *** Yeggstry is now known as Yeggzzz
23:07:05  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15648 /trunk/src/os/macosx/macos.h: -Fix (r14773): hack around an OSX stupidity in < 10.4 w.r.t. signals by not having any signal handling support for OSX < 10.4. Thanks to PearPC and TrueBrain's OSX compiler.
23:07:27  <TrueBrain> cool! I made a OSX compiler! :)
23:07:29  <TrueBrain> tnx nevertheless ;)
23:07:51  *** TinoDid [] has joined #openttd
23:09:16  <TrueBrain> almost 1000 revisions between bug and fix
23:09:18  <TrueBrain> how n ice :p
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23:13:25  <TrueBrain> lobster: +2 (Funny) (quit message)
23:14:15  <lobster> why thank you
23:14:18  <glx> lol, nice one
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