Log for #openttd on 27th March 2009:
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00:46:53  <eMjay88> ok, so say my network admin has somehow set up the router to kick me from the wifi when I use bittorrent
00:47:02  <eMjay88> does anyone know how to get around this?
00:47:36  <glx> don't use bittorrent
00:48:24  <eMjay88> ok, does anyone know how to get around this AND keep using bittorrent?
00:48:37  <thingwath> protocol encryption may help :)
00:48:40  <glx> maybe it's just a bad router
00:48:48  <Rubidium> keep killing the network admin until the problem is fixed?
00:48:54  <eMjay88> I'm pretty sure it's already encrypted
00:49:09  <eMjay88> glx: you mean I'm crashing the router with bt traffic?
00:49:16  <glx> yes
00:49:26  <eMjay88> hmmm
00:49:53  <glx> some routers don't even support openttd traffic on wifi
00:50:01  <eMjay88> dmesg tells me "wlan1: No ProbeResp from current AP 00:13:46:c8:82:62 - assume out of range"
00:50:11  <eMjay88> that could indicate that the router died...
00:51:20  <glx> easy to check if someone else is connected on this router
00:51:39  <SmatZ> the problem can be many new connections in short period of time
00:52:04  <eMjay88> perhaps I can limit the bandwidth, and see if that fixes it...
00:52:14  <glx> half-connections indeed
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00:52:43  <glx> you can limit them if you use a good bt client
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00:53:11  <glx> (one having a setting for that)
00:53:14  <eMjay88> I use deluge atm, it's not fantastic but ok
00:53:22  <eMjay88> it does have bandwidth settings
00:53:42  <glx> it's probably not a bandwith problem
00:54:57  <glx> on µtorrent I just set net.max_half_open to 1 and windows no longer complains about TCP
00:55:25  <glx> maybe you have a similar setting
01:02:38  <eMjay88> I have max half-open connections, it is set to 8 (default)
01:02:58  <eMjay88> tooltip says: "A high value may crash some cheap routers" :P
01:03:23  <glx> try to set it to 1 :)
01:03:24  <thingwath> hm, ktorrent has something like "maximum number of connection setups", set to 50, and I have no idea what is it, possibly the same thing?
01:03:52  <eMjay88> do you think 200 is too high for maximum connections in general?
01:04:14  <glx> established connection != half_open
01:04:28  <eMjay88> i realise that :)
01:05:45  <glx> I have 600 as max and 100 per torrent
01:06:02  <glx> but only 1 halfopen :)
01:06:21  <thingwath> hm, 100 peers for a torrent, that can happen? :)
01:06:29  <glx> yes
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01:21:49  <eMjay88> thingwath: depends how popular your torrents are
01:22:09  <glx> and how old
01:23:54  <eMjay88> how are half open connections used in bt?
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01:24:37  <eMjay88> is it kind of like udp? you send data and it doesn't get ACK'd?
01:25:59  <thingwath> I guess it's a state of the connection before you get the ACK
01:27:32  <eMjay88> w'pedia says it's when one end has closed the connection but not told the other end
01:28:00  <eMjay88> and then goes on to say that the remaining open end may not expect replies, keeping the connection persistently half-open
01:30:14  <eMjay88> anyway, glx, that seems to have worked
01:30:23  <eMjay88> although my speed is way down
01:30:26  <eMjay88> thanks :)
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01:55:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15864 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: add some 'invisible' widgets on company finances window, and use them to determine where to draw strings instead using some magic values
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03:35:22  <sadasdeq234q> anyone here ?
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03:49:25  <eMjay88> sadasdeq234q: hello
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03:57:40  <eMjay88> bye
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04:08:52  <goodger> >.<
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06:37:45  <dihedral> morning
06:37:56  <goodger> morning dihedral
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07:53:25  <planetmaker> good morning
07:54:41  <Pikka> goodbye! D:
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08:00:23  <dihedral> \o/ a planetmaker ^^
08:00:31  <dihedral> make us another earth
08:00:39  <dihedral> one that is not full of garbage
08:00:43  <dihedral> and hurry
08:00:47  <dihedral> and ... ^^
08:00:55  <planetmaker> dihedral: it was destroyed... making place for a galactic highway :(
08:01:06  <dihedral> stupid mice
08:01:37  <petern> always happens
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08:02:02  <dihedral> ^ can we not remove the Singa ^^
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08:02:53  <dihedral> ^ and here s/Com/Peer/ :-P
08:03:07  <petern> ...
08:03:26  <dihedral> <- has a happy-day today
08:03:32  <petern> you can't remove him, he just left
08:03:35  <dihedral> dont ask me why - probably must a bit too tired
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08:07:49  <goodger> planetmaker: however, the recent invention of the Infinite Improbability Drive made all hyperspace bypasses obsolete. DUN DUN DUHHHHH!
08:08:29  <goodger> dihedral: you do seem particularly hyperactive today
08:08:40  <planetmaker> which will give a huge boost to the coffee industry...
08:09:13  <goodger> nah, dihedral _waking up_ gives a huge boost to the coffee industry
08:09:15  <dihedral> me being hyperactive will give a boost to the coffee industry?
08:09:21  <dihedral> ^^
08:09:23  <dihedral> pffft
08:09:30  <dihedral> what i need, is a cup of tea ^^
08:09:39  <dihedral> and a towl
08:09:56  <goodger> a towel!
08:10:01  <dihedral> yes that
08:10:03  <goodger> what a frood you are ~
08:10:16  <goodger> how very hoopy.
08:10:27  <dihedral> hoppy
08:10:29  <dihedral> ^^
08:11:06  <goodger> you are hopping, perhaps
08:12:45  <petern> has orudge actually read it yet?
08:12:51  <petern> orudge lad!
08:13:00  <Sacro_> goodger: are you calling another male a hoopy frood?
08:13:33  <Sacro_> well at least you've not mentioned sassing him
08:13:44  <goodger> Sacro_: although I am gay, I don't believe "hoopy" or "frood" mean sexually attractive. only "sass" was mentioned to mean "have sex with"
08:13:55  <Sacro_> well, meet/be attracted to/have sex with
08:14:18  <goodger> know, be aware of, have sex with
08:14:20  <Sacro_> you are gay? :o
08:14:29  <goodger> yes, aren't you?
08:14:33  <Sacro_> no
08:14:34  <Sacro_> :(
08:14:36  <goodger> ^ standard response
08:14:48  <Sacro_> ^ also standard response
08:14:52  <goodger> XD
08:15:54  <goodger> I wore a suit clumsily constructed from a shirt, tie, formal trousers, blazer and oxford shoes to college recently, just to irritate the staff; people asked me "why are you wearing a suit?"; I'd reply "why aren't you?"
08:16:09  <goodger> that shut them up quite neatly
08:16:14  <Sacro_> hmm, 450 words, not bad
08:16:27  <Sacro_> i might suit up for uni
08:16:27  <goodger> petern: has owen read what?
08:16:42  <petern> hhgttg
08:16:58  <goodger> ah...
08:17:00  <petern> i admit, it is quite inconceivable that someone hasn't
08:17:06  <goodger> yep
08:17:17  <goodger> Sacro_: it irritates the hell out of senior staff members who use it as a status symbol
08:18:43  <petern> i haven't ever worn a suit
08:19:17  <Sacro_> lol
08:19:22  <goodger> wait... why did you :( when asked if you were gay? are you dissatisfied with heterosexuality?
08:19:35  * Forked gets the popcorn
08:19:52  <goodger> a fitted suit is, in theory, the most comfortable clothing a person can wear; it keeps the spine in place, for one thing
08:19:58  <petern> it's just a joke, Sacro_'s raging with the best of them
08:20:08  <goodger> wha?
08:20:35  <goodger> raging >.<
08:21:06  <dihedral> Sacro_, you might want to reconsider your answer to "yes, aren't you [gay]?"
08:21:12  <dihedral> i really thought you were
08:21:20  <dihedral> i am sure Bjarni would also second that
08:21:22  <petern> why?
08:21:23  <petern> who cares?
08:21:30  <goodger> XD
08:21:31  <dihedral> i am just kidding petern
08:21:40  <goodger> commotion /o/
08:21:43  <dihedral> teasing Sacro is a bunch of run
08:21:48  <dihedral> *fun
08:21:56  <petern> at least he's not a christian
08:22:14  <petern> JUST KIDDING!
08:22:18  <goodger> I'm sure a substantially larger proportion than 6% of tt-forums members are gay; it's just not generally relevant
08:22:35  <dihedral> petern, nice one :-D
08:22:37  <dihedral> hihi
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08:23:05  <goodger> however, I find that the best way to deal with a joking insinuation that I'm gay is to say I am; then people tend to become very flustered and embarrassed \o/
08:23:25  <dihedral> goodger, 6% is not that much, when you consider that about 20-25% of the forum users are real idiots
08:23:34  <dihedral> possibly even more ^^
08:23:42  <petern> 99%
08:23:52  <dihedral> uh
08:23:52  <dihedral> ok
08:23:55  <petern> which just proves that 5.9% of idiots are gay
08:23:55  <goodger> well, 6% is the proportion of Britons who'll admit to it on a government form
08:24:02  <petern> STATISTICS ARE GREAT
08:24:22  <goodger> I'm sure that the actual figure is far higher, and that the actual figure is the same worldwide...
08:24:32  <dihedral> if they asked my cousin, he would fail at ticking [ ] male [ ] female
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08:24:44  <petern> dihedral, there are 17000 registered users
08:24:48  <petern> 17910 in fact
08:25:00  <dihedral> would either be [x] male [x] female, or even [ ] male x [ ] female
08:25:02  <goodger> dihedral: admittedly, some people do not self-identify as either of those...
08:25:15  <goodger> gah, /me must go to college now
08:25:21  <petern> 99% leaves ~ 200 non-idiot users
08:25:25  <petern> which sounds about right ;)
08:25:30  <goodger> let us continue this most enlightening conversation later
08:25:38  <dihedral> he's currently in the state of .... 'transforming'
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08:26:06  <petern> transistioning, it is called
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08:26:28  <goodger> byee///
08:26:33  <dihedral> i wanted to be humorous petern
08:26:37  <dihedral> have a nice day goodger
08:26:42  <goodger> I shan't...
08:26:43  <petern> oh yeah, LOL!!L!L!!!1111
08:26:57  <goodger> </reginaldperrinquote>
08:28:22  <petern> ah, i am within the top 200 users, heh
08:28:59  <dihedral> <- HAHA .... too good
08:30:38  <Gekz> lol.
08:30:48  <petern> dihedral is 194th, hah
08:31:11  <petern> okay i guess top 200 posters is not the right condition :p
08:33:11  <dihedral> lol
08:34:59  <dihedral> petern, where do you see that?
08:35:15  <petern> in the userlist, sorted by posts, heh
08:35:34  <petern> "Members"
08:36:55  <Sacro_> Hmm, think I'm about done with this ACW
08:37:04  <Sacro_> less than an hour to get it handed in :(
08:37:17  <Sacro_> need to find a paper wallet
08:40:03  <petern> been up all night finishing it?
08:40:31  <dihedral> <- the pics here are funny ^^
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08:50:11  <petern>
08:50:12  <petern> okay
08:50:16  <petern> that makes me want to throw up :/
08:51:07  <Forked> I'm hungry
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08:59:48  <dihedral>
09:00:41  <dihedral> <- that is awesome!!
09:02:07  <Gekz> Tiles
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09:07:31  <Gekz>
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09:13:25  <dihedral>
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09:37:01  <petern> pom te pom
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09:57:25  <eQualizer> There isn't any way to know in-game which airplanes are suitable for small airfield?
09:57:54  <Aali> yes there is
09:58:26  <Sacro> eQualizer: if they crash and burn then they are too big
09:58:46  <eQualizer> ...besides that.
09:59:36  <Aali> the easiest solution is to set different company colours for small/big aircraft
10:00:19  <Aali> but IIRC, once you've built the airplane you can see it in the vehicle details window
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10:19:50  <Cybertinus> you can have big airplanes on a small airfield?
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10:20:11  <Cybertinus> The chance that they chrash is only a lot bigger, which costs a lot of money :)
10:23:38  <dihedral> a 'required runway length' info when looking at the stats when wanting to buy would be nice :-P
10:26:28  <petern> there's only one h in crash
10:26:50  <dihedral> perhaps he's swiss
10:26:56  <Cybertinus> no, Dutch :)
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10:32:40  <Aali> don't you mean Dhutch?
10:33:39  <Ammler> dihedral: :P
10:33:59  <dihedral> hihi :-)
10:34:11  <dihedral> at least someone got the pun
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11:36:40  <sadsadsadas> anyone here ? I need help, I enabled modifying production cheat but I cannot see any place to actualy modify production at all, using nightly, ecs
11:38:44  <Aali> that won't work with ECS
11:40:38  <Ammler> ECS is easy anyway, no need to cheat ;-)
11:41:04  <Aali> indeed
11:41:10  <Ammler> :-D
11:41:33  <Ammler> just the grf parameters to 15 15
11:44:16  <Ammler> if you have a "strong", you could join the #openttdcoop server and finish the game, nobody else is able to ;-)
11:44:24  <Ammler> client*
11:44:42  <Aali> really?
11:44:46  <Aali> noone can join?
11:44:58  <Ammler> well, not many anymore
11:45:14  <Ammler> looks like ECS almost double the cpu usage
11:46:09  <Aali> well its a big game
11:46:12  <Aali> huge map
11:46:15  <Aali> no wonder
11:46:32  <sadsadsadas> same here
11:46:42  <sadsadsadas> i had to remove ai's
11:47:13  <Aali> I guess you dont have 995 trains though
11:48:32  <sadsadsadas> no, but over 1k buses (removed them), over 100 planes
11:49:09  <sadsadsadas> just cannot figure out how to transport fish from fishing ground, no ship is capable of ransporting fish :////
11:49:30  <Aali> ships suck anyway
11:50:17  <Gekz>
11:50:34  <Ammler> sadsadsadas: old waggons, new vehicels
11:50:38  <Ammler> .grf
11:51:00  <Ammler> or the newships from mb
11:51:38  <sadsadsadas> ships suck, but cargo is precious
11:51:59  <sadsadsadas> I got 2CC ships
11:53:02  <Aali> there's nothing to stop you from moving that precious fish by train
11:53:29  <Ammler> 2cc isn't even in beta state, afaik
11:53:59  <sadsadsadas> trains in the middle of atlantic ocean ? no thanks :P
11:54:05  <dihedral> Gekz, skype has a privacy setting
11:54:23  <dihedral> anybody who does not use it is stupid enough to have deserved such a chat ^^
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11:58:26  <Ammler> sadsadsadas: also possible to use multiple ship sets
11:59:50  <sadsadsadas> i hope yes, because I cannot use multiple train sets anymore :/
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12:00:39  <dihedral> sadsadsadas, settings!
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12:04:09  <sadsadsadas> which settings ?
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12:07:45  <Forked> heya racetrack :)
12:07:50  <racetrack> evening
12:08:16  <Forked> just compiled your latest diff.. posting win32 binary now (I'm just assuming thats fine with you :p)
12:09:18  <racetrack> oh absolutely, the code is out there :) if nothing else it shuts my brother up, who claims to want to try it but would prefer whinging at me to setting up build environment etc
12:09:26  <racetrack> as for me, I wouldn't have a clue - no windows here
12:10:01  <Forked> bah. still can't upload files bigger than 2MB to the forum .. there goes the counter.
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12:13:05  <sadsadsadas> dammit, still not good enough, I am looking for a way to increase production of an industry
12:13:19  <sadsadsadas> what ecs can do is to make resources unlimited and dont close industry
12:13:28  <sadsadsadas> but does not effect the production level
12:16:39  <dihedral> sadsadsadas -> forums ;-)
12:17:06  <Rubidium> ls
12:17:22  <dihedral> wrong window :-P
12:17:48  <Rubidium> no kiddin'
12:19:25  <Forked> so uh.. lots of <cr>'s .. and: "'s password:" .. think he would fall for it? :\
12:19:40  <Forked> spaces perhaps, anyway nevermind
12:19:57  <petern> ls doesn't generally require a password...
12:19:58  <Rubidium> Forked: unlikely
12:20:14  <Forked> uhm no, but a login window might
12:21:07  <Ammler> Forked: forums file limit is bigger then 3.2 MB at least
12:22:09  <Ammler> (my size of a openttd bundle)
12:22:44  <Forked> Ammler: It complains about a setting in php.ini when I try to upload a 3.2(ish)MB zip now
12:23:12  <Ammler> oh, maybe since the update
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12:25:34  <Ammler> orudge: ^
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12:33:20  <Ammler> :-o drive through a depot without slowdown?
12:33:54  <Ammler> (something for Belugas ;-)
12:34:26  <Rubidium> no, but it's realistic for train to pass a depot at 640 km/h
12:42:00  <dihedral> Rubidium, sure, they dont even need to work at conveyor belts anymore :P
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12:43:46  <petern> sirkoz at it again?
12:44:13  <sadsadsadas> dihedral: I tried to search forums for clues but couldn't find anything, any suggestions where to look ?
12:44:14  <racetrack> Ammler: haven't finished it yet, thats next on my list
12:45:12  <Ammler> sadsadsadas: [12:41] <Ammler> just the grf parameters to 15 15
12:45:16  <dihedral> sadsadsadas, yes, behind the 'post reply' button in the ecs thread
12:45:30  <sadsadsadas> Ammler, but parameteres does not alter prouction itself
12:45:45  <Ammler> well, that needs "playing" the game
12:45:52  <Ammler> or do you want just watch it?
12:46:49  <Ammler> maybe you should play "The Transporter.avi" then
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13:54:08  <Belugas> hello
13:55:20  <Sacro> Morning
13:59:42  <dihedral> hi Belugas
13:59:52  <dihedral> your message made me laugh ^^
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14:04:24  <planetmaker> he... Nekomaster-like behaviour seems to spread:
14:05:25  <planetmaker> I shouldn't have read posts of people on my ignore list...
14:05:26  <Belugas> which one dihedral?
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14:07:13  <Forked> "Skillz, I haz it but.." makes no sense :p
14:07:24  *** Dred_furst` [] has joined #openttd
14:12:21  * Belugas guesses it's part of a tentative to look cool
14:12:38  <Belugas> failed miserably, if you ask me
14:15:46  <Forked> planetmaker: he did type please :)
14:22:38  <planetmaker> Forked: fair enough :)
14:27:43  <orudge> Ammler: thanks for the highlight, heh
14:27:46  <orudge> forgot about checking that
14:28:09  <Ammler> it rolled back to the old setting 2MB
14:28:21  <orudge> should be fixed now I hope
14:28:34  <Ammler> what is max?
14:28:58  <Ammler> shouldn't be below 4, imo.
14:29:01  <orudge> 4MB
14:29:05  <Ammler> :-)
14:29:24  <Sacro> should be enough for anyone
14:29:46  <Ammler> noai rised it around 10%
14:30:47  <Ammler> well, you could also remove the language files to drop around 30%
14:31:14  <petern> rised!
14:31:34  <Forked> orudge: thank you :)
14:31:46  <planetmaker> thx, orudge
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14:32:27  <Turnskin> Hi all!
14:32:59  <Ammler> hmm, "have risen"?
14:33:18  <Forked> raised?
14:34:02  <Turnskin> First i would thank every GRF maker here for their exellent work :)
14:34:28  <Ammler> another British American difference?
14:35:27  <Turnskin> 'cause i'm trying to set grf pack properly 4 hours already :) would to have all features included.
14:36:07  <Belugas> [10:35] <Turnskin> First i would thank every GRF maker here for their exellent work :)   <--- yeah... and the devs?? prrrrrt
14:36:11  <Turnskin> My today question is: which is the limit for GRFs for the OTTD 0.7?
14:36:27  <planetmaker> raised, I think, Ammler :)
14:36:35  <Turnskin> Belugas And the Developers too of course!
14:36:53  <glx> number of files?
14:36:58  <Turnskin> Thank you all!
14:37:09  <planetmaker> 64 afaik
14:37:29  <glx> more like 62 :)
14:37:33  <Turnskin> Something but 100
14:37:38  <Turnskin> in my list
14:37:52  <planetmaker> Turnskin: are you sure they all make concurrently sense?
14:37:53  <Belugas> [10:38] <Turnskin> Belugas And the Developers too of course!  <-- Ahhh better :)
14:38:04  <Turnskin> Including nice OpenGFX
14:38:18  <Belugas> yes, only 62 files only
14:38:20  <glx> they are base brfs
14:38:24  <glx> *grfs
14:38:29  <glx> not newgrfs
14:38:41  <planetmaker> something learnt again thanks to Belugas and glx :)
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14:39:40  <Turnskin_> Sorry, VPN errors
14:40:43  <Turnskin_> I would to test and to enjoy all the spectre of vehicles, trains and stations as well as OpenGFX but i can't :(
14:41:20  <planetmaker> yeah, don't use all at the same time.
14:41:44  <planetmaker> Especially vehicle newgrfs tend to produce many unwanted side-effects (cross-talk), if used concurrently
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14:45:45  <Ammler> most sets should be used exclusive in the category they modify
14:46:18  <ameno> is there any way to close the last opened window or the last window you interacted with?
14:46:34  <ameno> i tend to hit esc all the time, but those nasty windows dont vanish :)
14:46:40  <planetmaker> the most notable exception in categories is station sets. They work nicely along eachother
14:46:58  <planetmaker> ameno: del ?
14:47:09  <ameno> del closes all...
14:47:12  <Ammler> that deletes all
14:47:21  <planetmaker> oh, ok :)
14:47:30  <ameno> i noticed, that openttd, does not have a "current" window
14:47:35  <ameno> as most winow managers do
14:47:37  <planetmaker> I usually open a bunch, sticky one and close all :)
14:47:46  <ameno> therefore i asked about the "last opened" one :)
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14:48:10  <Ammler> hmm, didn't zuu patch something like that?
14:48:28  <ameno> yeah... but i thought its quite annoying and wondered if im the only one, that thinks so :)
14:48:31  <petern> ahhh, pepsi max
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14:48:49  <petern> not quite the liquid lunch i was hoping for...
14:49:04  <Turnskin> BTW, i posted my idea in about plugin based code of OTTD.
14:50:15  <Turnskin> It means that anybody can write his own algorythm of pathfinding etc in his preferrable lang and use different versions in low level, simply
14:50:25  <Turnskin> turning the pulgin on and off
14:50:54  <glx> Turnskin: and how can that work on multi platform?
14:51:10  <Turnskin> glx It's another problem :)
14:51:59  <Turnskin> But e.g.i dislike modern situation with the signals at all. 2-way signals are not only the "2-way" but also are pointers to a train as
14:52:15  <Turnskin> "can go but not must"
14:52:19  <Turnskin> .
14:53:40  <Turnskin> But i could write a plugin in Delphi, e.g. getting path scheme with all signals and returning a way to a train must go.
14:53:54  <Turnskin> 'cause i don't know C :(
14:54:19  <SmatZ> what can be done is company-specific pathfinder settings
14:54:20  <Belugas> I Know Delphi too.  At one point, i did not knew C.  I leared
14:54:23  <SmatZ> but not plugins
14:54:25  <Belugas> learned
14:54:44  <Belugas> in fact, i work in Delphi...
14:54:49  <Turnskin> Well, my VPN continues to be crazy... So please repeat, does the 64+- GRF is the limit?
14:54:50  <glx> anyway all clients must do the same thing in multiplayer
14:55:00  <glx> the limit is 62
14:55:08  <SmatZ> like, that "custom" pathfinder is not possible
14:55:16  <Turnskin> glx OK, thanx.
14:55:21  <glx> well 62 open files :)
14:55:32  <glx> but a tar with mutliple grfs count for 1
14:55:49  <Turnskin> glx Ooh, cool!
14:56:21  <Ammler> :-o
14:56:39  <Turnskin> glx Does it understand a .tar as directory (with separate GRFs are exluded in list)?
14:56:40  <petern> you've given Ammler ideas...
14:56:45  <Ammler> hehe
14:57:05  <Ammler> well, my vps has "open files limit" :-)
14:57:08  <Belugas> Ammler? Ideas??
14:57:12  * Belugas runs away!!
14:57:38  <Ammler> I keep my ideas quite down lately...
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14:57:50  <glx> ho and the 62 limit includes basegrf too (that's why I have TTD files in a tar ;) )
14:58:11  <petern> and the 62 limit is arbitrary :D
14:58:16  <glx> true
15:00:02  <Ammler> I once reached that limit, as I made the wwottdgd scenario, but it was lower at that time, somewhere around 50
15:01:01  <petern> it used to be 30, or so
15:01:05  <Belugas> arbitraty?  Isn't it linked to a limit on the IP protocol?  I may be wrong, though
15:01:07  <Turnskin> Hey, another idea :) Does anybody work in many-industries direction? I mean the same GRF understanding by OTTD as it's for vehicles.
15:01:08  <Ammler> or 30, possible
15:01:14  <petern> oh
15:01:20  <petern> hmm
15:01:24  <petern> there's that too
15:01:26  <Ammler> it is quite hard to configure that many newgrfs
15:01:34  <petern> i could do it
15:01:50  <SmatZ> it was lower bevause there were more OTTD grfs than just openttd.grf (now all of them are in openttd.grf)
15:01:53  <Belugas> Turnskin: many-industries? waht do you mean?
15:02:54  <Turnskin> Belugas I mean user could include many industrial GRF together and they will work together. E.g. ECS+New cargoes+Pikka's industries.
15:03:40  <Turnskin> Using same GRF ID internally, but OTTD will use reference table. As for vehicles GRFs.
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15:04:17  <Turnskin> Ha! Another my idea as the gift for you
15:04:18  <petern> no, nobody's working on that
15:04:19  <Turnskin> ^)
15:04:20  <Belugas> Turnskin, i think you do not know how the system works...
15:04:34  <Turnskin> It's XML b
15:04:38  <Turnskin> ased
15:04:39  <glx> hmm I think PNG_SLOT may conflict with grfs
15:04:40  <petern> iirc it already works like that, just theres a limited number of slots
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15:04:47  <Belugas> vehicles and industries are two different beasts
15:04:55  <Turnskin> (Sticky ENTER key :(  )
15:05:11  <petern> eww
15:05:22  <Belugas> XML based what?
15:05:29  <Turnskin> The idea is XML based GRFs, saves and scenarios.
15:05:37  <Turnskin> Packed by free zlib.
15:05:37  <Belugas> no freaking fucking way
15:05:49  <Belugas> forget it, don't even dream on it
15:06:01  <Turnskin> This way anybody could change anything in this.
15:06:04  <Belugas> and don't even ask why, this debate is closed, once and or all
15:06:16  <Rubidium> Turnskin: and then wait half a day just to download a GRF?
15:06:19  <glx> anybody can modify grfs already :)
15:06:22  <Turnskin> Ahhh... I'm not the first :(
15:06:31  <Belugas> God no
15:06:57  <petern> unfortunately, not the last
15:07:02  <SmatZ> neither the last :(
15:07:05  <Belugas> yeah :(
15:07:07  <Turnskin> Rubidium I thought in this - compressed XML is not very large.
15:07:21  <Turnskin> OK, i understand...
15:07:30  <Rubidium> Turnskin: compressed XML with binary crap, but that's just faking the use of XML
15:07:58  <Turnskin> Well, this way: how can i modify saves??
15:08:07  <Belugas> you cannot
15:08:09  <Turnskin> E.g. from old version
15:08:15  <glx> save it as uncompressed
15:08:20  <Rubidium> i.e. how to define a signal?
15:08:24  <Turnskin> Belugas Thus i thought to XML :)
15:08:25  <glx> and use an hex editor
15:08:27  <Belugas> unless you really know what you are doing using a debugger or else
15:08:31  <Ammler> [16:03] <Turnskin> Belugas I mean user could include many industrial GRF together and they will work together. E.g. ECS+New cargoes+Pikka's industries. <-- good idea, as ECS alone is way too few anyway... :-D
15:08:48  <SmatZ> hehe
15:09:02  <Belugas> nowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynowaynoway
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15:09:14  <goodger> *tic*
15:09:20  <glx> Ammler: yes it's too easy to make money with ECS ;)
15:09:30  <Forked> tomorrow it's 10 years since the first futurama episode aired (Space Pilot 3000) :-)
15:09:30  <Rubidium> <signal><type>block</type><direction>north east</direction></signal
15:09:55  <Rubidium> now I add a new type of signal... but the old version doesn't know about it... how to convert?
15:09:58  <petern> Ben Goodger and the Mysterious Ticking Noise
15:10:38  <Rubidium> hmm... lets do a proof of concept kinda thing ;)
15:10:44  <Turnskin> Rubidium You simply open XML editor and set params and atts manually.
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15:10:53  <goodger> petern: tics, not ticks :P
15:11:02  <petern> Ticing Noise?
15:11:03  <petern> :o
15:11:20  <Ammler> Turnskin: try to make a game with one or two vectors of ECS, if that is too less, add another vector...
15:11:24  <petern> the noise of a nervous muscle spasm...
15:11:28  <Turnskin> BTW, there is the parameter of the daylength in OTTD 0.7?
15:11:31  <goodger> well, I am sometimes given to sharp intakes of breath when tic-ing...?
15:11:37  <petern> no
15:11:54  <Rubidium> Turnskin: any idea how big it'd become?
15:12:27  <petern> quick, modify SlObject to use xml!
15:12:36  <Turnskin> Ammler Due to this question i had a situation with simple PIkka's industries and MB's New Cargoes. I would to have electrostation and Fishing grounds together.
15:13:20  <Ammler> mb's new cargo is a experimental grf...
15:13:25  <Rubidium> Turnskin: and you think you can easily find the places where you need to make the changes?
15:13:49  <Turnskin> <sgn type=1 dir=8/>
15:14:13  <glx> signals are not stored as signals :)
15:14:24  <Turnskin> It was an example.
15:14:40  <SmatZ> Turnskin: no no and no
15:14:44  <glx> they are signals because the game read them as signals
15:14:53  <Rubidium> Turnskin: what does 1 mean?
15:14:57  <SmatZ> one could save SlDesc tables in the savegame too
15:15:08  <SmatZ> but still it would be meaningless - there are internal things that are changing
15:15:09  <Turnskin> I mentioned XML 'cause i work with it in databases and find it very nice mechanism.
15:15:10  <Rubidium> what does 8 mean?
15:15:49  <petern> personally i use sql with databases...
15:15:50  <glx> Turnskin: XML is useful for only one thing, passing data from one system to another
15:15:58  <SmatZ> like, how would you convert current games to pre-cargopacket ones?
15:16:00  <Belugas> xml and databases?  what a silly scheme
15:16:29  <Turnskin> But 1 and 8 means "Signal" and "NE" in this version. But "PBS" and "NEE" in later. And one can use XSLT for automatic conversion.
15:16:48  <SmatZ> one can just compile newer OTTD version
15:17:07  <glx> OTTD is smart enough to convert old saves on load
15:17:36  <Rubidium> Turnskin: ofcourse if you would have used PROPER XML instead of BINARY XML you wouldn't need the XSLT in this case
15:17:59  <Turnskin> One must download compiler, source, librares, be well-known in compilling...
15:18:11  <SmatZ> "programming XML dabases" is something different than "programming OTTD in C/C++"
15:18:16  <SmatZ> *ta
15:19:16  <glx> why anybody would want to edit savegames anyway?
15:19:27  <Rubidium> Turnskin: just for 'comparison' I've made a dump of the map array in ASCII with some VERY repetitive headers. Using zlib with maximum compression yields a 690 KiB file.
15:19:48  <Belugas> ask that to Leander, glx :)  he goofed and want to clean it ;)
15:20:07  <Rubidium> the savegame that contains the map AND all vehicles is only 136 KiB
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15:22:41  <Rubidium> discussion reset by pulling out the ethernet cable ;)
15:22:55  <SmatZ> :o) good
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15:35:14  <pavel1269> does any train attitude change with changing debug/relase build?
15:35:50  <glx> should not
15:42:18  <petern> attitude does not mean the same as behaviour
15:44:28  <SmatZ> simply, there shouldn't be a desync between "release" and "debug" builds in MP
15:45:56  <taisteluorava> heh, i played openttd with nokia x5800, works perfectly on 640x360 resolution and touchscreen is very accurate
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15:48:04  <taisteluorava> and its pretty quick to move around map and build with touchscreen
15:48:40  <glx> taisteluorava: some windows are too big for it I guess
15:49:12  <taisteluorava> no, only news take half of screen, but i disabled those, its perfect to play now
15:49:44  <taisteluorava> widescreen ofc
15:50:08  <glx> well 640 and wide ;)
15:50:08  <taisteluorava> and 640x360 resolution is high enought, even toolbar fit perfectly
15:50:21  <glx> yes minimal width is 640
15:51:29  <taisteluorava> also newGRF:s works very well
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16:05:03  <petern> i played it on my e71
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16:05:06  <petern> it's too small :p
16:13:09  <taisteluorava> yeah, e71 have half smaller resolution than 5800
16:13:35  <petern> it's slower as well
16:13:42  <Aali> god I hate writing software for windows
16:14:15  <taisteluorava> and its just way quicker build with touchscreen, no need switch between diffrent angel rails, can use that "all direction" building style easily and accurative
16:14:24  <Aali> still haven't figured out the opengl problem
16:14:52  <Aali> and the only thing I actually know what its doing is my own code
16:15:47  <Aali> the host application for my loadable dll is a black box and the opengl driver is an encrypted black box
16:16:17  <Aali> I've tried moving the whole opengl init sequence to where the problem appears, that just made it worse
16:16:56  <Aali> now its crashing in SetPixelFormat
16:17:17  <Aali> it seems that after a certain point in time, any calls to the opengl driver just crash the entire thing
16:26:56  <pavel1269> why trains stop at each station, the go throught, even there is no such a command ?
16:27:05  <pavel1269> *then
16:27:20  <Aali> use non-stop orders
16:27:51  <pavel1269> well, they don t have that station in orders at all
16:28:07  <Aali> use non-stop orders
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16:29:29  <pavel1269> if i change track layout, that now some trains have to go throught station, i must catch ALL of em and give them orders??
16:29:56  <Aali> use non-stop orders
16:31:28  <Ammler> lol Aali
16:31:34  <pavel1269> hes stuck? :P
16:31:59  <Aali> did you try using non-stop orders?
16:32:15  <Aali> it should be quite obvious how they work once you see them in action
16:32:21  <Ammler> non-stop orders is the "solution" for almost every usage...
16:32:38  <Ammler> you can set it as default btw.
16:34:02  <pavel1269> i am gonna try, and this should explain, why it in 15832 work :P
16:35:06  <pavel1269> okay ... so stupid problem ...
16:35:51  <Aali> wow thats just perfect
16:36:15  <Aali> single-stepping through glGenTextures with a debugger just magically makes it work
16:36:56  <petern> yeah, here's a suggestion
16:36:59  <petern> use non-stop orders
16:37:24  <glx> Aali: maybe a threading problem
16:37:51  <Aali> glx: I'm pretty sure it is, but I have no control over any threads
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16:38:20  <Aali> my dll isn't threaded
16:38:47  <Aali> the opengl driver is, and so is the host app, my guess is that the host app is trashing TLS
16:39:04  <Aali> but if thats the case, I have no way of fixing it
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16:42:26  <Belugas> Aali: use non-stop library
16:42:28  <Belugas> her...
16:42:30  <Belugas> sorry
16:44:05  <Aali> heh
16:47:01  <petern> :D
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17:07:32  <ameno> wtf is wrong, if a train does not load the cargo of an industry thats clearly in range?
17:08:00  <glx> does the station accepts the cargo?
17:08:06  <Vikthor> is it refitted to carry that cargo?
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17:08:27  <yorick> oh look, a 500 Internal Server Error on
17:08:35  <ameno> glx: wrong way, industry supplies the cargo
17:08:48  <Rubidium> town exclusivity?
17:08:53  <yorick> with a Cherokee web server 0.99.8 (UNIX), Port 80 message
17:09:10  <glx> 2 concurrents with better rating than you ?
17:09:16  <ameno> Vikthor yes.. the same train works a few squares north with the same industry type
17:09:23  <ameno> no other players
17:09:49  <glx> only 2 stations can get the cargo anyway
17:10:09  <ameno> only this one in range
17:10:33  <glx> savegame needed I fear
17:10:41  <KenjiE20> maybe you don't cover enough/the right square to get the cargo
17:11:19  <ameno> KenjiE20 its directly adjacent to the station
17:11:36  <ameno> it should cover all of the industry's fields imho
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17:12:00  <KenjiE20> have you checked with the catchment on?
17:13:04  <ameno> when i place them yes
17:13:33  <ameno> hm now it works...
17:13:51  <ameno> i did not really change anything... just rescheduled the train again
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17:14:01  <ameno> but it was correct before im sure
17:14:18  <glx> what industry type?
17:14:21  <ameno> coal
17:14:24  <ameno> mine
17:14:59  <ameno> ill check if i can reproduce it in one of the autosaves
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17:18:05  <ameno> yes i can... and i know what the problem is.. it was set to "non-stop"
17:18:14  <ameno> and i have that patch enabled...
17:18:43  <ameno> forgot about that... non-stop is then interpreted as waypoint iirc?
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17:20:26  <Ammler> [17:32] <Ammler> non-stop orders is the "solution" for almost every usage... <-- ;-)
17:21:08  <ameno> un-solution in this case :)
17:21:34  <Ammler> waypoint "replacement" is via, afaik.
17:21:54  <petern> waypoints are waypoints and have not been replaced
17:22:46  <Ammler> petern: see the """ ;-)
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17:23:38  <ameno>
17:23:41  <ameno> that one
17:24:15  <Ammler> that is just to set the default behavior
17:24:27  <ameno> so if i have that patch enabled, a station set go non-stop + load != work
17:24:32  <ameno> mh
17:24:44  <Ammler> which version do you play?
17:24:48  <ameno> 0.6.2
17:24:57  <ameno> ubuntu binary
17:24:58  <Ammler> ah ok, quite old, then you might need that
17:27:58  <Ammler> ameno: non-stop handling is just to tell the train not stopping on other stations on his way
17:28:27  <Ammler> like if you use stations as waypoints
17:28:58  <petern> well that patch setting is stupid
17:29:18  <Ammler> it is described a little bit odd
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17:31:00  <Ammler> (in the english.lng)
17:31:29  <petern> it makes people thing "non-stop" means "don't stop"
17:31:39  <petern> or rather "don't stop at"
17:31:51  <ameno> well... it seems it works like that in my version
17:32:12  <ameno> the station was set to (go to) non-stop + load
17:32:27  <ameno> and it did not load, but left immediatly
17:32:33  <petern> yeah, because you enabled that patch option
17:32:37  <Ammler> german text is something like "do orders per default without "between"-stops"
17:33:49  <Ammler> petern: because he didn't?
17:34:26  <Ammler> we always played with that enabled...
17:35:05  <glx> well use 0.7.0+ and problem is solved ;)
17:35:54  <Ammler> (or even more confusing...) ;-)
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17:36:24  <glx> depends on translators now :)
17:36:53  <glx> "via" and "go non stop to" are available at the same time
17:37:23  <glx> TTDPatch non-stop handling was one or the other
17:38:07  <Ammler> he, french also changes the font
17:39:15  <glx> because µ for the OSK
17:42:01  <Ammler> isn't "without-stop" english?
17:42:27  <Ammler> maybe better then non-stop
17:42:39  <Aali> it makes no sense but I think I just solved my opengl issues \o/
17:43:52  <Aali> glGenTextures wasn't crashing at all
17:44:05  <Aali> but something really confused the debugger
17:44:28  <Aali> the actual crash came later on, with a bad call to glTexImage2D
17:45:04  <glx> debugger and multi thread can be fun ;)
17:45:09  <Aali> found it by literally commenting out all of my code line-by-line
17:45:56  <Aali> my code is only ever called from the main thread of the host app
17:46:48  <Aali> I think the opengl drivers did some trickery to lose the debugger intentionally
17:49:19  <Sacro> lolman: new servur
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18:16:25  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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18:20:14  <welshdragon> :o a jonty-comp
18:20:19  <jonty-comp> lies
18:21:51  <Sacro> Hmm, where is Large Font used?
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18:23:01  <frosch123> newspaper
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20:36:24  <gass> hello people
20:36:37  <gass> is it usual for openttd to consume 50% of cpu
20:36:56  <gass> with 2048x2048 and 1(one) trail and 2(two) stations?
20:37:05  <gass> in debian lenny
20:37:08  <gass> by the way
20:37:55  <petern> yup
20:38:02  <petern> large map is a lot of work
20:38:03  <gass> version 0.6.3
20:38:20  <gass> but 50%, with one train?
20:38:27  <Belugas> even on 0.6.3
20:38:30  <gass> 55% stable
20:38:46  <petern> well, of course it depends on the cpu in question
20:39:08  <petern> but there's more to (open)ttd than just the train
20:39:17  <Belugas> it's not just about trains.  it could be opponents, industries, even towns.  lots can happen
20:39:35  <gass> well ... it is a modest cpu
20:39:35  <gass> model name	: Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU          420  @ 1.60GHz
20:39:40  <petern> oh well
20:39:47  <petern> think yourself lucky then
20:39:53  <Rubidium> what resolution?
20:40:04  <gass> Belugas, true ... but for now ... its one train  ... obviously ... there is more going on
20:40:20  <glx> 32bpp can help too sometimes
20:40:36  <gass> Rubidium, 2048x2048, the map
20:40:40  <Belugas> and animations, let's not forgtet animation :D
20:41:33  <gass> Belugas, like i said... its one train ... in 2048x2048 we can imagine the number of animations after 10 years
20:41:33  <Belugas> gass, resolution does not mean map size, but the screen dimension ;)
20:41:37  <Rubidium> it's very unlikely that you've got 2048x2048 screen resolution (especially because 0.6.3 doesn't support that resolution)
20:41:41  <gass> 1400 x 1200 ?
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20:42:33  <glx> try with a 32bpp blitter
20:42:59  <Belugas> ingame, you know where is the setting button n the toolbar?
20:43:52  <Belugas> if so, click on it, and keep mouse button down. tell us if Full Animation in checked
20:45:11  <petern> press F1
20:45:14  <petern> then it'll be alright
20:48:15  <Belugas> yeah :)
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23:00:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r15865 /trunk/src/company_gui.cpp: -Codechange: New widgets for company finances windows
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23:15:22  <goodger> ooh, a lovely netsplit
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23:57:58  <gass> are there any new icon/image sets (instead of the original ones?
23:59:01  <Ammler> 32bpp
23:59:16  <Ammler> which is also used in the OpenGFX

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