Log for #openttd on 1st April 2009:
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01:13:08  <welshdragon>  /part openttd hahaha! nobody can get me on April Fools' Day!
01:13:11  <welshdragon> argh
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01:14:00  <glx> lol
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02:02:01  <baldur> omg
02:02:11  <baldur> it's not often that i want to cry
02:02:37  <baldur> but translator2 is breaking all my mental defenses now :'(
02:02:52  <baldur> it is in a _serious_ need for fixing
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02:02:59  <baldur> or the webserver that is running it...
02:04:18  <Rubidium> translator2 has been in need of fixing for basically 5 years
02:04:28  <baldur> hehe, well that's true
02:04:32  <Rubidium> or rather a rewrite from scratch
02:05:04  <baldur> you haven't had an opportunity to try to fix the webserver that is running it?
02:05:08  <glx> what's your problem with it?
02:05:22  <baldur> it is reeeeaaaally slow
02:05:23  <Rubidium> baldur: we're not the developers of the webserver
02:05:33  <baldur> and gives my HTTP 500 errors half of the time
02:05:39  <baldur> so it takes about 20x more time to use it
02:05:42  <baldur> oh, sorry
02:06:11  <baldur> i'm not well into the management of project :p
02:06:29  <Rubidium> but we're trying a new webserver at the moment in the hopes it better than the previous one
02:06:31  <baldur> gives me*
02:07:06  <baldur> as in hardware or software?
02:07:27  <Rubidium> and well... it doesn't quite work out, but the developer of the webserver is working on it which we couldn't say about our previous problem
02:07:34  <Rubidium> software
02:07:47  <baldur> i see
02:08:03  <Rubidium> the previous webserver would sometimes kill half the services because it "leaks" memory
02:08:18  <baldur> heh, fun stuff
02:08:22  <baldur> which one was that?
02:08:23  <Rubidium> where the leaking isn't real leaking but some cache that grows to insane sizes (1+ GB)
02:08:40  <Rubidium> that was lighttpd
02:08:44  <baldur> oh, really
02:08:50  <baldur> i thought it was supposed to be so great
02:09:01  <baldur> with youtube running on it and stuff
02:09:29  <Rubidium> youtube doesn't do "fancy" stuff
02:09:40  <Rubidium> like providing svn via http
02:09:45  <glx> youtube runs on apache
02:11:00  <Sacro> youtube sucks balls
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02:11:26  <baldur> hmm, i could've sworn that i read somwhere that youtube runs on lighttpd
02:11:38  <baldur> but i'm probably wrong
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02:12:22  <Sacro> "I have two 32-bit laptops, can I use them as one 64-bit?"
02:12:25  <Sacro> hehe
02:16:01  <baldur> daddara
02:16:02  <baldur>
02:16:08  <baldur> this list looks pretty valid
02:17:53  <racetrack> $ lynx -head -dump
02:17:54  <racetrack> HTTP/1.1 200 OK
02:17:54  <racetrack> Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 02:17:19 GMT
02:17:54  <racetrack> Server: Apache
02:18:04  <racetrack> of course who knows what frontend/backend business they have in there
02:18:38  <TinoDidriksen> YouTube uses Apache for front-end fancy stuff, and Lighttpd for serving the actual video files.
02:18:48  <racetrack> there you go
02:18:54  <Rubidium> baldur: all nice, but if you hit the 'sweet spot' where it leaks it will leak and be useless
02:19:21  <TinoDidriksen>
02:20:09  <baldur> yeah, i wasn't trying to prove you wrong :)
02:21:37  <racetrack> Server: lighttpd-yt/1.4.18
02:21:38  <racetrack> confirmed
02:21:41  <racetrack> not that I doubted :)
02:28:38  <baldur> yay, 100% icelandic translation \o/
02:28:47  <baldur> just in time for 0.7.0
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02:52:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15908 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Fix: off-by-one in viewport strings/flags; left + width != right
02:58:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15909 /trunk/src/os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h:
02:58:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Fix (r15892): Apple, PLEASE do not fill your API with #if !__LP64__. Especially
02:58:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: when another part of your API depends on whether __LP64__ is defined and thus
02:58:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: making it non-trivial to silence the warnings from the undefinedness of __LP64__
02:58:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: in #if !__LP64__...
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04:22:12  <Forked> "Be nice to SirkoZ" .. nice patch setting for AIs :D
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06:41:02  <dihedral> hi
06:41:13  <Forked> ello
06:41:38  <dihedral> Rubidium, has not TB been working on a rewrite of WT2?
06:43:20  <Rubidium> he hasn't been working on it
06:45:03  <petern> are you suggesting that the huge project that mihamix worked on and couldn't reveal to anyone is... in need of replacement?
06:45:16  <Rubidium> dihedral: does work? And what version does it show?
06:49:30  <dihedral> Rubidium, i dont have my mac with me at work!
06:49:32  <dihedral> :-(
06:49:44  <dihedral> petern, i had the source of it once, miham gave it to me :-)
06:50:19  <dihedral> but then TB said i need not work on a rewrite of it as i would have done it in php and he wanted to do it in python with django
06:50:28  <dihedral> so i deleted it again
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06:51:35  <dihedral> Rubidium, i can test it earliest at like 1800 or 1900
06:51:45  <dihedral> but perhaps planetmaker is awake?
06:52:02  <dihedral> what did you patch it with?
06:52:05  <planetmaker> I'm just downloading it :)
06:52:09  <dihedral> \o/
06:52:25  <planetmaker> and good morning everyone
06:52:33  <Rubidium> oh, some minor things
06:52:45  <dihedral> like?
06:52:59  <Rubidium> new sdk, new compiler, new linker, new libs
06:53:09  <dihedral> minor HAHA
06:53:12  <Rubidium> some extra targets
06:53:38  <dihedral> pm has an intel 10.5 i think
06:53:40  <Rubidium> as in adds x86_64 and ppc64 binaries
06:53:49  <planetmaker> I have intel 10.4
06:53:55  <dihedral> i can test it for g4 10.4 this evening
06:54:12  <dihedral> @note send dihedral
06:54:16  <dihedral> :-(
06:54:18  <dihedral> @whoami
06:54:18  <DorpsGek> dihedral: dih
06:54:22  <dihedral> gnah
06:54:32  <planetmaker> :P wrong bot?
06:54:38  <dihedral> @note send dih
06:54:42  <dihedral> pfft
06:54:52  <dihedral> it's supybot, just does not have the plugin loaded
06:55:28  <Rubidium> blame lighty
06:55:37  <dihedral> eh...?
06:55:44  <dihedral> what does that have to do with lighty?
06:55:48  <planetmaker> well... I cannot run that binary, Rubidium
06:56:04  <planetmaker>  Reason: Incompatible library version: openttd requires version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 5.0.0
06:56:42  <dihedral> did you install that using mac ports or fink, pm?
06:56:43  <Rubidium> hmm, so we really need to link to the 10.4 SDK
06:57:12  <planetmaker> neither. I dl it from the site which maintains it and compiled it myself
06:57:27  <dihedral> ha! :-)
06:57:46  * dihedral wonders, if he installed esx on an apple x-server, if he could install os x in a vm ^^
06:59:21  <petern> just drop apple's shit
06:59:44  <planetmaker> :(
07:00:07  <planetmaker> petern: there are at least three windows binaries, too...
07:02:17  <petern> yeah
07:02:26  <petern> and when did they last get special treatment?
07:02:45  <planetmaker> you don't make _one_ binary for all windows versions ;)
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07:03:59  <planetmaker> petern: 2 days or 9 days ago ;)
07:04:39  <planetmaker> @openttd 15818
07:05:18  <planetmaker> and r15893
07:05:46  <petern> 15893: nothing to do with windows
07:06:00  <planetmaker> win32.cpp isn't special for windows?
07:06:41  <petern> 15818: gcc ain't windows
07:07:57  <petern> mm, okay
07:08:06  <petern> but that's not a work around for the system
07:08:17  <petern> anyway
07:08:22  <petern> my next proposal
07:08:28  <petern> just drop microsoft's shit
07:08:41  <planetmaker> :D
07:09:19  <planetmaker> why should there be more than one system architecture anyway?
07:09:21  <dihedral> petern, when does windows NOT get special treatment?
07:09:37  <dihedral> and planetmaker: there are more than 3 builds for os x ;-)
07:09:51  <dihedral> you just only download one dmg and have one app
07:10:05  <petern> the problem is window's variants span 14 years
07:10:18  <petern> OS X variants are span 0.2 minor versions :p
07:10:22  <petern> -are
07:10:44  <dihedral> ^^
07:11:12  <petern> oh, and two windows variants are basically 32/64 bit
07:11:16  <dihedral> and now check how long ms needs to release a major version
07:11:24  <dihedral> in that time, os x had how many minor versions?
07:11:25  <dihedral> ^^
07:11:46  <petern> correction
07:11:50  <dihedral> + if windows ran on ppc, you'd have more variants for windows too
07:11:54  <petern> in that time, os x had how many incompatible minor versions?
07:12:18  <dihedral> in what way "incompatible"?
07:12:20  <dihedral> ^^
07:12:53  <dihedral> i am sure, you can, in the same way find incompatabilities between 3 windows releases
07:13:10  <dihedral> s/same/similar/
07:13:26  <petern> not really
07:14:31  <petern> just older versions missing features that we use in the newer versions
07:16:24  <planetmaker> 10.3 ... 10.5 = three major versions
07:16:34  <petern> 10 = major
07:16:41  <petern> 0.3 ... 0.5 == three minor versions
07:18:07  <planetmaker> petern: not really
07:18:18  <planetmaker> they just stick to ten as X = 10 = ten
07:18:58  <planetmaker> besides, you should know that versioning is a rather subjective thing ;)
07:20:56  <planetmaker> differences are as big as Win98 -> win NT -> win 2000 -> win xp
07:21:19  <Rubidium> not really
07:21:35  <Rubidium> what works in WinNT does still work in WinXP
07:21:54  <Rubidium> what works in OSX 10.3 does not necessarily work in 10.5
07:22:04  <petern> what works in win 98 usually works in vista
07:22:13  <dihedral> what worked in 98 does not necessarily work in 2k or xp
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07:22:46  <planetmaker> depends on how much compatibility layers you drag around ;)
07:22:55  <dihedral> planetmaker, CLASSIC
07:23:01  <dihedral> :-D
07:23:05  <Yexo> morning
07:23:11  <dihedral> hello Yexo
07:23:12  <planetmaker> morning Yexo
07:23:20  <Rubidium> planetmaker: so EVERY application must make it's own compatability layers?
07:23:38  <planetmaker> doesn't sound like the way to go, Rubidium :)
07:23:47  <Forked> needs some compatability between layer 7 and 8 at least..
07:24:41  <petern> a big spike
07:25:22  <dihedral> Forked, aye
07:28:39  <planetmaker> but at some stage it can IMO be argued that given a big enough version difference, two systems can be considered quite different :)
07:29:00  <Rubidium> yes, but 0.1 release?
07:30:08  <Rubidium> you must deliberately build with an OLDER "platform SDK" to make it work on older releases; building and linking against 10.5 doesn't make it work in 10.4
07:30:12  <planetmaker> from one version to another: I concur, one should be able to continue using user-side programmes
07:30:48  <planetmaker> The latter (you need to use the older SDK) makes somewhat sense to me...
07:32:39  <Rubidium> the latest SDK for windows still makes binaries that work fine on Windows 2000
07:32:50  <planetmaker> and win98?
07:32:52  <dihedral> Rubidium, compared to win, you do know that osx releases a vast amount of 0.0.1 versions
07:33:43  <Rubidium> dihedral: so does Microsoft in essence, only they bundle them as "new" less often
07:34:09  <Rubidium> those 0.0.1 versions are just MS Service Packs Light
07:34:33  <dihedral> well.... call them as you wish
07:36:00  <Rubidium> it's just that apple really likes to exaggerate with their new features
07:36:42  <dihedral> ^^
07:36:52  <dihedral> and windows copies from apples features :-D
07:37:08  <Rubidium> they all copy eachothers features
07:38:14  <planetmaker> IMO the 0.0.1 are the regular updates + security fixes. but the 0.1 are the major versions  - which you pay for. Like any other non-free os
07:39:16  <Rubidium> e.g. bootcamp in Leopard is counted as at least 7 features
07:40:31  <Rubidium> bootcamp, some bootcamp installer, copy files between bootcamps, bootcamp uninstaller, MS signed drivers for bootcamp, bootcamp keyboard mapping, bootcamp shortcut
07:42:12  <Rubidium> wikipedia filtering? wtf?
07:43:04  <Rubidium> hmm... leopard introduced printing? You couldn't print with the versions before?
07:43:32  <Rubidium> :O 6 "features" are new screensavers... good way to keep your feature count up
07:43:43  <dihedral> :-D
07:44:16  <Rubidium> hmm... leopard introduced backing up? You couldn't back up with the versions before?
07:44:36  <Rubidium> damn... MS must have stolen that idea from Apple
07:44:46  <Rubidium> ... back in say 1995
07:45:48  <Rubidium> "Leopard is the first mainstream operating system to completely and seamlessly support both 32-bit and 64-bit applications on the same platform" <- WHAHAHAHAHAH... NOT FOR DEVELOPERS OFCOURSE!
07:46:48  <Forked> so.. what distro should I install at home. (it's the gaming computer, so it needs GUI)
07:47:26  <Rubidium> hmm... then there's this 'ld' application of cctools that... doesn't work with the libraries supplied with the same xcode
07:47:39  <Rubidium> Forked: depends on the kind of games I reckon
07:48:25  <Forked> openttd, x3: reunion (the ported to linux one) and probably whatever else I can find that looks fun :)
07:49:34  <Rubidium> though generally probably something like ubuntu, suse or fedora
07:50:10  <Forked> I was considering ubuntu or fedora.. leaning on ubuntu
07:50:21  <Forked> I still have a grudge against red hat after RH9 (and 5.2)
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07:58:13  <Rubidium> planetmaker: I've uploaded a new zip for you to test on 10.4
07:58:24  <planetmaker> same link?
07:58:28  <Rubidium> yes
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08:04:32  <planetmaker> that works and calls itself r15909M-32-LE
08:05:05  <planetmaker> any particular tests required? It loads a trunk save just fine.
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08:08:20  <petern> Forked, debian, obviously
08:08:42  <Forked> it's not obvious to me
08:09:00  <Forked> but I know for sure I'm not a gentoo person
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08:18:42  <dihedral> gentoo is nice ^^
08:22:18  <petern> no it's not
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08:24:11  <dihedral> to to a windows-clicker no
08:24:23  <dihedral> :-P
08:24:33  <dihedral> but you'd probably consider vista 'nice' and i would not ^^
08:29:30  <petern> ...
08:29:37  <petern> i use linux
08:29:38  <petern> idiot
08:30:16  <Forked> windows is and will always be haunted by crappy drivers and things that do not work all that well together.. and it will all be blamed on MS :)
08:31:29  <Ammler> morning, looks like nice talk here :-)
08:31:29  <petern> of course, vista does work perfectly well for me (on intel)
08:31:39  <Rubidium> planetmaker: for 32-LE there isn't much to test ;)
08:32:18  <planetmaker> Basically trunk, I assume?
08:33:33  <Rubidium> yes
08:33:43  <Rubidium> with some modifications to make 64 bits apple work
08:33:53  <Rubidium> primarily disabling stuff like quicktime
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08:37:25  * planetmaker wonders how much 64 bit 10.4 is... presumably not much
08:39:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r15910 /trunk/src/ai/api/ (ai_company.hpp ai_map.hpp ai_tunnel.hpp): -Fix [FS#2777]: Clarify that TILE_INVALID is part of AIMap make doxygen output some documentation for it.
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08:40:30  <Rubidium> planetmaker: not enough
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08:41:33  <Rubidium> it doesn't have a 64 bits variant of the (I think) most used APIs like Carbon
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08:57:45  <planetmaker> I also think it's true. Most 64 bit support is afaik only added in 10.5. And some might still be even missing there.
08:58:31  <Rubidium> yeah, quicktime doesn't have a 64 bits variant
08:58:40  <Rubidium> and it probably won't have one either
08:58:57  <Rubidium> I'm even wondering whether 10.6 will have quicktime support
08:59:03  <planetmaker> No idea :)
08:59:12  <Rubidium> might be a feature ;)
08:59:14  <planetmaker> But my bet is it will
09:00:10  <planetmaker>
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09:06:11  * planetmaker thinks to get snow leopard, when it gets shipped ;) - but I wonder also, if dual boot is supported...
09:07:40  <Rubidium> isn't that what bootcamp is for?
09:08:31  <planetmaker> maybe :) I never used it as I preferred to use windows in a VM, if needed
09:08:59  <planetmaker> though I thought bootcamp provided mainly support for windows - but may work for other parallel installs, too
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09:11:17  <Rubidium> QuickTime 7.2.1 is intended to support Mac OS X v10.5. As such, this version does not support Mac OS X v10.3.9 and higher; Mac OS X v10.4.9 and higher, or Microsoft Windows. <- me no understand; <= 10.3.8 is supported the rest isn't?
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09:19:24  <Rubidium> oh... Apple "supports" QuickTime for 64 bits
09:19:43  <Rubidium> it just requires using QTKit
09:19:52  <Rubidium> which isn't available at 10.3.9
09:20:42  * Rubidium wonders how many APIs needed to be rewritten to support 64 bits Windows compilation
09:20:51  <Rubidium> s/API/API calls/
09:21:53  <Rubidium> so... who's going to write qtkitmidi?
09:21:58  * planetmaker isn't even sure whether I want to know that...
09:22:17  <planetmaker> (the number of re-written API - calls)
09:23:49  <Rubidium> WHAT???... 64 bits support for windows didn't require the use of different API calls?
09:24:58  <planetmaker> he :) compile for new variable type and be done? ;)
09:25:46  <Rubidium> well, for WIN64 most changes are of the #if defined(WIN32) -> #if defined(WIN32) || defined(WIN64) kind
09:26:08  <petern> how many API call changes were needed for unix-style OSes?
09:26:10  <Rubidium> which I assume is simpler than lets say use another API
09:26:14  <petern> oh, silly question
09:33:12  <Rubidium> hmm, some parts of qtkit are available for 10.3
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09:40:30  <bobo_b> hi
09:40:51  <bobo_b> how do i set the map size for a dedicated server?
09:41:19  <bobo_b> i can't seem to find an option in the config file and the wiki page doesn't say anything about it either
09:42:00  *** KingJ is now known as kingj
09:42:10  <Ammler> bobo_b: let me wiki that for you:
09:44:15  <Ammler> hmm, why does someone add a "stub" template? quite annoying lazy
09:45:23  <Ammler> same like "!connect" signs on our public server ;-)
09:45:34  <bobo_b> oh wow, oops, sorry
09:46:15  <bobo_b> thanks Ammler, i did a (lazy) search for 'size' on the opennttd.cfg page and didn't find it...
09:46:22  <bobo_b> now i know why :)
09:46:47  <Ammler> search for "map" brings you there quite fast
09:48:00  <bobo_b> yep
09:48:08  <bobo_b> didn't think that far i guess
09:48:10  <bobo_b> :/
09:48:22  <Ammler> (stub removed)
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10:08:43  <TrueBrain> Dead all; after a rough week fighting with cherokee we come to the conclusion it is too buggy, and there is too little feedback upstream about what is going on and when something will be fixed; therefor we will be reverting back to lighttpd now
10:11:04  <TrueBrain> k, done; please let me know any webpage glitches
10:15:12  <petern> seems to work
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10:17:24  <Rubidium> :O typo of the day ;)
10:17:34  <petern> hmm?
10:17:44  <Rubidium> "Dead all;"
10:17:54  <TrueBrain> oops :)
10:17:55  <petern> oh
10:17:58  <petern> didn't notice :o
10:18:03  <TrueBrain> well, that was of course a joka, ha ha
10:18:06  <TrueBrain> (euhm)
10:20:13  <petern> :D
10:21:40  <petern> so how quickly does lighttpd exhaust memory?
10:22:02  <petern> is a daily cronjob restart enough to work around it?
10:22:20  <TrueBrain> sometimes
10:22:24  <TrueBrain> depends on how busy things are
10:22:31  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: can you switch 'stats' back to lighttpd please?
10:22:42  <petern> i guess it's request-based rather than time-based
10:22:49  <TrueBrain> exactly :)
10:23:04  <petern> monitor the logs and restart after x-requests ;)
10:23:12  <petern> me so silly
10:23:15  <petern> hmm
10:23:23  <petern> i do have a daily restart for amavis
10:23:28  <petern> though i don't know if it's needed any more
10:25:35  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: done
10:27:50  *** kingj is now known as KingJ
10:42:27  <planetmaker> hehe, petern - nice OpenLoco thing :D
10:43:50  <dihedral> a TrueBrain ^^
10:45:49  <TrueBrain> dihedral: no, check the date, impossible that I am here
10:46:11  <dihedral> i never claimed you were here, did i now ^^
10:53:02  <petern> hmm?
10:53:50  <petern> bah, thunderbird locked up
10:55:02  <TrueBrain> slap it open!
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11:31:13  <Ammler> nice new feature fo opera:
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11:39:36  <dihedral> Ammler, now picture school computer laps in 2 years time!
11:39:44  <dihedral> :-P
11:39:54  <Ammler> :-D
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11:42:56  <Forked> haha
11:47:12  <TrueBrain> I like that you can get youtube in flip mode
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11:47:16  <TrueBrain> even text is flipped :)
11:51:34  <Forked> now combine that with the thing they had last year.. and you get:
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11:55:20  <Sacro> zomg
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12:27:22  <Pikka> JAPES
12:36:58  <dihedral> ?
12:39:01  <Pikka> HIJINKS!
12:39:20  <Pikka> "openloco"
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12:40:49  <Forked> what day is today .. it's nibblers birthday ..
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12:59:00  <dihedral> lookes like it's Pikka's "shout-aloud-day"
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13:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r15911 /trunk/src/lang/ (icelandic.txt unfinished/serbian.txt):
13:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-04-01 13:51:05
13:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: icelandic - 27 fixed, 11 changed by scrooge (38)
13:51:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: serbian - 37 fixed by etran (37)
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14:09:36  <Condac> anyone tested openttd on powerpc?
14:11:29  <petern> do you have a problem with it?
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14:12:23  <Condac> not yet, im installing ubunto on my ps3 to run some snes and stuff on it, and was interested if openttd might work also
14:13:07  <petern> well
14:13:16  <petern> you'd have to try it
14:13:25  <petern> powerpc covers a bit more than ps3...
14:13:43  <petern> morphos, mac os x, linux, etc...
14:13:57  <Condac> i will test it, just have to finnish the installation, it seems to stuck at the moment
14:14:46  <glx> if it compiles, it should work :)
14:15:35  <Rubidium> even then... what powerpc cpu ;)
14:16:14  <Rubidium> there're quite a bit and compiling for the wrong one will make it not working
14:17:51  <Rubidium> openttd 0.6.3 is known to compile on Debian under alpha, amd64, armel, hppa, i386, ia64, mips, mipsel, powerpc, s390 and sparc
14:19:24  <Condac> im just working through the "the installer will hang at 6% for 20mminutes"-bug at the moment will get back with results later
14:19:34  <petern> heh
14:20:09  <bobo_b> i can't seem to open the ingame console, is it not ~?
14:20:28  <Rubidium> it's usually the key below 'escape'
14:20:54  <Condac> try ö if you have swedish board
14:21:00  <Sacro> or § on a macbook
14:21:06  <bobo_b> oh ok, ^ works
14:21:13  <Rubidium> otherwise you can try the right most button of the toolbar; that sub menu has an option to open the console
14:21:13  <bobo_b> though the wiki says 'Open the console with the tilde key (~)'
14:22:31  <Rubidium> then that part of the wiki is uhm... not 100% true
14:25:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15912 /branches/0.7/ (24 files in 7 dirs):
14:25:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk:
14:25:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Update: lots and lots of translations
14:25:07  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Chat completion got called twice causing tab completion to seemingly fail (r15905)
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14:25:16  <Belugas> snes? what is a snes ?
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14:25:36  <el_en> Belugas: super nintendo entertainment system
14:25:38  <Belugas> mmh... conference call about to start.  from bed.. nice
14:25:49  <Belugas> thanks el_en
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14:31:11  <bobo_b> erm
14:31:28  <Forked> hi supernintendo chalmers!
14:31:42  <bobo_b> how can i save the game on my dedicated server, so that i can stop the server and restart it with the saved game?
14:35:05  <planetmaker> bobo_b: join as client, save it locally :)
14:35:16  <planetmaker> or in the console use 'save <gamename>'
14:35:43  *** Yexo_ is now known as Yexo
14:36:07  <bobo_b> well if i save it on the client side, i would have to copy it to the server to restart the server with that savegamge, right?
14:36:11  <Ammler> hmm, exit might be a autopilot command?
14:36:19  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r15913 /tags/0.7.0/ (9 files in 3 dirs): -Release: not the April Fools' edition of OpenTTD.
14:36:24  <bobo_b> well, the save X in the console seems to save it on the client side
14:36:31  <Forked> hah
14:36:45  <Ammler> bobo_b: rcon save ....
14:36:58  <Forked> no announcement on forum yet!?!?1+1+one :p
14:37:39  <Rubidium> you haven't made one yet, right?
14:37:46  <planetmaker> Rubidium: you're making a good joke? :)
14:38:05  <dihedral> Ammler, exit is yes, quit is not ^^
14:38:23  * Forked has not done a thing ..ever :\
14:39:02  <dihedral> Forked, eleven
14:39:26  <HerzogDeXtEr> hey, is it possible to to lock the build key for industries in the szenario editor? so you can build more industries of one type without clicking on build
14:40:10  <dihedral> yes it's possible
14:40:21  <dihedral> if you modify the source a little bit ^^
14:40:23  <Rubidium> enabling the make building tools persistent?
14:40:25  <HerzogDeXtEr> hmm
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15:09:52  *** mode/#openttd [+o petern] by ChanServ
15:09:52  *** petern changed the topic of #openttd to: 0.7.0 | Website: * (BaNaNaS: bananas, Translator: translator2, Gameservers: servers, Nightly-builds: nightly, WIKI: wiki, Dev-docs: docs, Patches & Bug-reports: bugs, Revision log: vcs, Release info: finger) | #openttd.notice for FS + SVN notices | UTF-8 please | No Unauthorised Bots | English only | Discussion of realism is now a quietable offence
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15:42:55  <el_en> btw, what made UK pick the PAL standard for colour tv, which is -- omg -- (almost) the same as in the rest of western europe.
15:48:03  <petern> cos a standard is handy
15:48:15  <petern> albeit standards with differences...
15:48:39  <Pikka> a handard is standy
15:48:50  <petern> TaI!
15:48:58  <Pikka> TaI!
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15:49:26  <Pikka> TaI + evilav8 = planesaren'tmoneyprintingmachines(hopefully) ;)
15:50:13  <Pikka> + newgrfports = o-o
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15:52:36  <glx> el_en: PAL is not standard here
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15:52:45  <Wil^3> I have a question for the devs that is completely unrelated to OpenTTD but related to the Squirrel scripting language I was told is used in OpenTTD. *whistles*
15:53:41  * planetmaker whistles, too
15:54:07  * glx waits
15:54:16  * Pikka whistles three
15:54:33  <Rubidium> you have to whistle harder and longer
15:54:41  * Wil^3 's lungs pop
15:54:41  <petern> red squirrels work better than grey
15:54:55  <Rubidium> *WHISTLE* *WHISTLE* *YEXO* *WHISTLE* *WHISTLE*
15:55:12  <Pikka> petern enjoys a good squirrel every now and then
15:55:14  <Wil^3> Well, I suppose the best place to start is... is it just me or do the squirrel docs really suck? The headers aren't even commented. :(
15:55:29  <Yexo> squirrel docs do suck
15:55:29  <glx> it's not just you :)
15:55:37  <Yexo> and not only the docs, the code too
15:55:37  <glx> squirrel code is worse
15:56:22  <Wil^3> lol
15:56:27  <Wil^3> Why is it used, then?
15:57:03  <Rubidium> it's basically the only one that meets requirements
15:57:05  <glx> because it does what we want
15:57:37  * Wil^3 nods
15:57:56  * Yexo is gone, highlight me if there are specific questions, I'll read them in tonight (like in 5 hours or so)
15:58:25  <Rubidium> Yexo: nice joke :)
15:59:04  <el_en> glx: i know.. i was about to add "most of" somewhere in my sentence, but didn't.
16:00:09  <Wil^3> Okay, so for my actual question... given that the docs are so horrible I can't seem to find any functions, save for the function that can be used in the script, that allows me to wake up a suspended script. What would make most sense is if when I called it again it would automatically wake up, but.. it doesn't. Have any of you worked with squirrels theads/coop (almost complete lack of) features?
16:00:22  <el_en> glx: but whattabout DVDs and digital tv, are those PAL?
16:00:32  <glx> they are
16:00:41  <glx> SECAM is used for broadcasting :)
16:01:19  <el_en> did anyone demand using SECAM on DVDs too?
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16:01:46  <petern> ...
16:02:16  <petern> you know that PAL on DVD refers only to resolution and frame rate, right?
16:02:37  <frosch123> also aspect ratio
16:02:45  <petern> nope
16:02:50  <petern> werll
16:02:52  <frosch123> no? :(
16:03:25  <frosch123> I was told NTSC has rectangular (non-square) pixels
16:03:37  <el_en> petern: yes, so?
16:03:59  <el_en> I thought PAL "has" non-square pixels too.
16:04:09  <petern> SECAM is 625 lines
16:04:12  <petern> PAL is 625 lines...
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16:04:23  <petern> it would be the same
16:04:25  <el_en> "has" in quotes because analogue PAL doesn't really have pixels.
16:04:29  <glx> PAL is B/W on SECAM tv
16:04:30  <petern> non-square has nothing to do with it
16:05:47  <el_en> petern: but the DVD player must output the image as PAL that is more PAL than just resolution and framerate.  why couldn't this output be SECAM as well?
16:05:58  <el_en> technically
16:06:03  <petern> ...
16:06:10  <baldur> the dvd player doesn' t output PAL or SECAM signals
16:06:14  <petern> i've never seen a DVD player with PAL signal
16:06:29  <baldur> it works with RGB over SCART, component etc.
16:06:30  <petern> they're either composite, component or SCART
16:06:46  <Pikka> ehhh... shit :3 I'm stupid...
16:07:01  <petern> lies
16:07:16  <el_en> RGB is an exception, but please explain why composite wouldn't need to be either PAL or NTSC or some other format.
16:07:16  <Pikka> vehicles have no persistent storage... 7D is global... >_>;;;
16:07:37  <petern> var 25 is as close as you get :/
16:07:44  <Pikka> hmm
16:07:49  <petern> feature request!
16:07:49  <Wil^3> Ahh, guess not. :(
16:07:50  <Pikka> var 25!  good point! :o
16:08:06  <Pikka> feature request = var 7C for vehicles tyvm D;
16:08:18  <Pikka> although since you've moved over to openlomo I guess there's not much chance. ;)
16:08:41  <Pikka> var 25 /might/ just do the trick. :o
16:08:48  <gleeb> Openlomo? O.o
16:09:08  <Pikka> erm
16:09:09  <baldur> el_en: as I understand it, the component signal is the same for PAL/SECAM and NTCS, the only difference is the number of lines
16:09:18  <Pikka> property 25, not var 25. :P
16:09:38  <baldur> whereas the broadcasting signal for PAL and SECAM is different, altough they use the same number of lines
16:10:08  <Pikka> gleeb
16:10:19  <el_en> baldur: component might be, but *composite* definitely is not. composite is the most common type of signal that virtually all tvs and monitors can handle.
16:10:34  <baldur> oh, i meant composite :p
16:10:36  <baldur> sorry
16:11:06  <gleeb> ty pikka
16:11:27  <gleeb> Oh, awesome, openlomo. :D
16:11:50  <el_en> baldur: well, ever tried viewing NTSC DVD with a tv that only supports PAL?
16:12:03  <Pikka> *cough*april1*cough*
16:12:04  <petern> it won't work
16:12:08  <petern> because the timings are wrong
16:12:15  <el_en> correct.
16:12:16  <petern> however
16:12:18  <petern> a DVD *player*
16:12:34  <petern> can quite easily output NTSC or PAL or SECAM composite
16:12:41  <el_en> second question; ever tried viewing an NTSC DVD with a tv that only supports PAL, but can sync also to 60 Hz?
16:12:43  <petern> regardless of the actual DVD in use
16:13:08  <gleeb> Pikka: Yeah, I saw the post date. I downloaded it anyway, to see what the joke was.
16:13:44  <el_en> petern: well, as far as i know it is not a very common feature that a DVD *player* would do such a conversion.  the good old Dxr3/H+ card did, which was nice.
16:13:49  <petern> wrong
16:13:54  <baldur> humm, there's a long time since I looked into those things so I can't say...
16:13:57  <petern> DVDs are MPEG
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16:14:19  <petern> output NTSC or PAL 'encoded' video requires faffing
16:14:24  <petern> *outputing
16:14:41  <petern> it's quite common for a DVD to support rescaling
16:14:46  <petern> they have frame buffers you know
16:15:07  <petern> things like anisotropic... zoom... etc...
16:15:35  <petern> it's not like a video tape where the raw signal goes straight from the tape to the telly
16:15:48  <petern> (even then that doesn't happen, heh)
16:16:07  <el_en> petern: ok, well, at least the two of us do agree that the signal on composite _is_ either PAL or NTSC (or theoretically something else), right.
16:16:29  <gleeb> There's no such thing as an NTSC or PAL DVD, just a design specification to specify the output. If you ignore the spec, suddenly, any DVD works anywhere.
16:17:03  <otih> openttd released and in some minutes/hours in gentoo tree ..... for all who wanna test it now:;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild
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16:18:23  <el_en> gleeb: But if your DVD player does not support the conversion, like many don't, you are in a situation where you cannot play back your NTSC DVD with that hardware even if it isn't really-really NTSC.
16:19:00  <gleeb> el_en: Yay for profiteering :D
16:19:32  <el_en> definition of "to play back" = "to see picture with colors, and with synchronization"
16:21:10  <petern> there is no "conversion"
16:21:15  <petern> well
16:21:46  <petern> anyway
16:21:51  <petern> nobody hooks DVD players up with composite
16:22:02  <el_en> gleeb: it's not profiteering.  the result in the end from the user's perspective is the same; some discs can and some cannot be played back with given hardware.  so there are two kinds of discs, labelled "NTSC" and "PAL".
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16:22:09  <petern> all the cheap ones are SCART, and expensive ones you'd use SCART or component
16:22:38  <el_en> err, SCART is a connector, not a signal. one of the signals SCART carries is composite.
16:22:46  <petern> RGB scart
16:23:08  <el_en> yeah.  though not all cheap TVs support RGB.
16:23:12  <petern> all DVD players i've seen have a selector for PAL, PAL-60 and NTSC output on composite
16:23:57  <el_en> petern: btw, my DVD player is hooked to my tv with scart composite :(
16:24:31  <petern> poor you :p
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16:26:17  <el_en> petern: the tv has RGB too, but there's a lot of ghost image stuff on the red channel, so it's not usable.
16:26:54  <petern> tried different cables?
16:27:21  <el_en> i did, and other devices besides the dvd player...
16:27:36  <gleeb> el_en: The NTSC/PAL divide is artifical at best with modern technology. It's maintainence can only be in the name of profit.
16:29:21  <el_en> gleeb: only in the name of profit, and not in the name of conforming to the DVD standard so that earlier players can play today's discs.
16:30:19  <gleeb> Now you're getting it :D
16:30:57  <gleeb> Besides, isn't this the HD era? Aren't we all meant to be on HDDVD and Bluray by now?
16:31:56  <baldur> or youtube and hulu? :p
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16:32:54  <TinoDidriksen> Physical media are outdated in general.
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16:34:38  <petern> well
16:34:46  <petern> we are all meant to buy HD-DVD and then have to switch to Bluray
16:35:20  <glx> HD-DVD is dead :)
16:35:33  <petern> exactly
16:35:41  <petern> s/are/were/
16:35:52  <glx> and the cheaper BRD player is the PS3
16:36:11  <baldur> no way :O
16:36:24  <baldur> so you're telling my my Betamax to HD-DVD Converter is of no use? :(
16:36:28  <baldur>
16:36:54  <petern> heheh
16:37:14  <SmatZ> converting data from one dead technology to another :-p
16:37:37  <glx> betamax was/is used by professionnals
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16:38:18  <glx> anyway now it's all digital
16:39:02  <el_en> but afaik the professional betamax is not very much the same as the betamax marketed to normal consumers in the past.
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17:05:27  <el_en> eh, tried connecting my dvd player with s-video.  if the s-video cable is connected even just to the player, both composite and s-video are b/w on the tv.
17:06:35  *** Bjarni [] has joined #openttd
17:06:38  *** mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ
17:08:15  <el_en> haj, B
17:09:04  <Bjarni> HAJ!!!
17:09:11  * Bjarni gets out of the water
17:10:12  * Belugas is just behind, removing his mask
17:10:23  <Pinchiukas> Is there a way to filter out servers with other versions of ottd than mine?
17:10:44  <glx> why ?
17:11:08  <glx> compatible servers are on top of the list
17:11:17  *** Pikka [] has joined #openttd
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17:11:51  <Belugas> Bjarni, will you please get out of the ladder, i need to climb aboard!
17:11:57  *** Alberth [] has joined #openttd
17:12:06  <Pinchiukas> glx: despite what I sort them by?
17:16:08  * Bjarni climbs up and removes the ladder
17:17:41  * Belugas takes his knife, punches a hole in one of the bladders and checks Bjarni drawning
17:18:09  <Bjarni> ?
17:18:27  <Belugas> check for zodiac ^_^
17:18:46  <Belugas> usualyy that's what we use when we're diving :D
17:18:51  <Bjarni> I don't get drawning :(
17:18:58  <Rubidium> you draw while drowning?
17:19:09  <Rubidium> or drown while drawing
17:19:16  <Belugas> ho...
17:19:18  <Belugas> bummer
17:19:20  <petern> home time
17:19:21  <Belugas> couler!
17:19:33  <Belugas> drowning indeed
17:20:01  <Bjarni> but I'm not in the water. You mean that I'm drowning in mid air?
17:24:03  <otih> Belugas, Rubidium: openttd will get in gentoo tree today night or tomorrow .... i have a ebuild here:;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild
17:24:06  <Belugas> if you were on the water, and you were gettiung out, you must be OR near the border or near a boat
17:24:35  <Belugas> using a ladder would actually means a boat
17:24:48  <Belugas> otih good :)
17:25:00  <Belugas> i guess Rubidium would be happier than me ;)
17:25:18  <otih> hehe, why? ;)
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17:25:59  <Wolf01> hello
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17:27:43  <Rubidium> otih: those scenarios are probably pointless; you can download them from in-game if you want
17:27:59  <Rubidium> furthermore it doesn't allow you to chose between allegro and sdl
17:28:16  <Rubidium> and it doesn't allow you to chose between allegro and timidity
17:28:27  *** Sacro [~ben@static-87-102-39-137.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit [Quit: Sacro]
17:29:38  <Rubidium> also line 113-119 are lies
17:30:02  <Rubidium> 108-109 aren't the complete truth either
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17:30:44  <Rubidium> and where's icu?
17:31:03  <Rubidium> and why only 4 platforms? it should run on much more
17:34:40  <Condac> openttd works without sound on ps3 in ubuntu 8.1, running 0.6.2 that was in the built-in package installer
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17:35:24  <gleeb> OpenTTD on PS3? Ouch.
17:35:52  <gleeb> You could always convert OpenTTD to C#/XNA and get it running on the 360.
17:36:12  <Condac> im updating some alsa packages so sound will hopefully work also soon
17:36:17  <Rubidium> convert?
17:36:53  <Rubidium> you could always convert your Ship to run on rails?
17:36:56  <gleeb> Rubidium: Take the code, throw it away because it's nothing like how XNA works, and rewrite from scrath. You know. 'Convert'
17:37:42  <Rubidium> yeah, with that terminology otih should 'convert' his ebuild
17:38:11  <gleeb> To a deb? :P
17:38:25  <Rubidium> no, to another ebuild
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17:41:48  <petern> dpkg - warning: downgrading openttd from 0.7.0-RC2 to 0.7.0.
17:41:49  <petern> hehe
17:42:11  <Rubidium> woohooo!
17:42:26  <blathijs> petern: That should have been versioned 0.7.0~rc2
17:42:52  <petern> well
17:42:55  <petern> wasn't me who made it ;)
17:43:14  <petern> crap, i don't have all the grfs i use :p
17:43:22  <Bjarni> :p
17:43:37  <Bjarni> you should have them somewhere... if you used them before
17:44:25  <petern> different machine, but yesa
17:44:44  <petern> this content service is nice, however ;)
17:50:15  <Bjarni> <-- interesting article
17:50:52  <petern> just as well you're a wanker, eh?
17:51:00  <petern> hmm
17:51:06  <petern> that sounds a bit harsh :p
17:51:12  *** ctibor__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
17:51:27  <Bjarni> well I guess I better consider it now for health issues
17:52:06  *** ctibor__ [] has joined #openttd
17:55:03  <otih> Rubidium: ok ;) i will fix this
18:02:31  *** Timitry__ [] has joined #openttd
18:04:04  <petern> so, is there any way of having lighttpd proxy without trying to buffer the content?
18:04:33  *** Timitry__ [] has left #openttd []
18:05:30  <otih> Rubidium: ping
18:07:48  *** Yeggstry [] has joined #openttd
18:10:26  * petern redirects it instead
18:11:05  <petern> hmm, that works :D
18:14:35  <el_en> oh my, this Enterprise series depicts the universe in a very primitive stage -- most aliens don't speak English yet.
18:15:12  <baldur> what about the humans?
18:15:20  <baldur> do they speak alianse?
18:15:35  <el_en> a human translator does.
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18:27:37  <Rubidium> otih: pang
18:28:13  <otih>;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild;h=7c52ac846959ce788d53743f1b0f2374d39e568a;hb=10848b0ce1d6d79822a02df6afb83da03e3b9cde
18:28:17  <otih> better?
18:29:30  <Rubidium> yup
18:29:42  <Rubidium> still misses libicu / allegro
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18:31:33  <otih> i dont have media-libs/allegro installed .... waht is it for?
18:32:37  <Rubidium> allegro is basically the same as sdl, just a different implementation
18:32:54  <Rubidium> though it also has a midi implementation
18:32:59  <otih> ok, i can choose between both?
18:33:04  <Rubidium> yes
18:33:19  <otih> and if allegro is installed i dont need alsa?
18:33:29  <otih> öh, forget it ;)
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18:33:47  <Rubidium> why would you need alsa anyways?
18:37:11  <Rubidium> sdl can also use e.g. arts, dsp and esd
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18:39:47  <dihedral> Rubidium, you still need me to test your custom osx build?
18:40:05  <Rubidium> what version + cpu do you have?
18:40:15  <dihedral> 10.4 ppc g4
18:40:32  <dihedral> 10.4.11 to be precise
18:40:51  <Rubidium> that should likely work, but it's untested. So please test
18:41:02  <Rubidium> should get version 32-BE
18:41:36  <dihedral> yep
18:41:45  <dihedral> need me to check anything else?
18:42:07  <Rubidium> not in particular; the rest should work as before
18:42:13  <dihedral> kk
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18:45:11  <bobo_b> hi
18:45:32  <bobo_b> i am trying to run a dedicated server on a mac
18:46:03  <bobo_b> i started it while logged in and it worked just fine, but now that i am logged out and trying to start it over ssh i get a Bus Error
18:46:40  <bobo_b> anyone know why?
18:47:07  <el_en> you've a good time to ask, because Bjarni is here.
18:47:08  <dihedral> how are you starting it?
18:47:11  <el_en> +chosen
18:48:16  <dihedral> bobo_b, how are you starting openttd, which version of openttd, when are you getting the bus error
18:48:28  <bobo_b> 0.6.3
18:48:32  *** jnmbk [~jnmbk@] has joined #openttd
18:48:41  <bobo_b> i did the alias thing that's described in the wiki
18:48:49  <bobo_b> bash-3.2$ openttd-0/ -D
18:48:51  <bobo_b> Bus Error
18:49:04  <bobo_b> actually it's "Bus error" :-)
18:49:06  <petern> get a taxi instead
18:49:12  <dihedral> :-D
18:49:16  <bobo_b> ...?
18:49:19  <dihedral> which version of osx?
18:49:27  <bobo_b> think leopard
18:49:32  <bobo_b> that is 10.5?
18:49:37  <jnmbk> Hi, I couldn't get the sound working in 0.7.0. It works fine in 0.6.3, I'm using linux
18:49:44  <bobo_b> (can i find out from the console?)
18:49:45  <dihedral> bobo_b, think is not good right now
18:49:47  <dihedral> please check
18:50:16  <dihedral> "have you tried turning it off and on again?"
18:50:25  <bobo_b> :-)
18:51:08  <otih> Rubidium: i dont need alsa, right, but i need something like arts, alsa, esd, ....
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18:52:06  <jnmbk> and ideas why the sound went off in 0.7.0?
18:52:12  <bobo_b> dihedral:  System Version: Mac OS X 10.5.6 (9G55)
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18:52:20  <bobo_b> dihedral: Kernel Version: Darwin 9.6.0
18:52:21  <dihedral> bobo_b, you wanna try a newer version of openttd?
18:52:39  <Rubidium> jnmbk: compiled it yourself?
18:52:44  <jnmbk> Rubidium: yep
18:52:50  <bobo_b> well, i can do that
18:52:53  <Rubidium> try openttd -s sdl
18:53:02  <jnmbk> ok
18:53:26  <bobo_b> erm, the new stable was released today?
18:53:26  <bobo_b> nice
18:53:29  <jnmbk> now it works
18:53:43  <Rubidium> then for some reason allegro doesn't give you sound
18:54:19  <Rubidium> I'd say you use ./configure --without-allegro or fix (lib)allegro
18:54:20  <jnmbk> Rubidium: is there a new parameter to make sdl default when compiling? (I'm asking because I'll update the package in my distro)
18:55:39  <bobo_b> what'S your distro? :-)
18:55:53  <jnmbk> Pardus
18:56:32  <otih> Rubidium: what should i use with arts, esd, ....?
18:56:38  <jnmbk> I'm trying --without-allegro ...
18:57:05  <Rubidium> otih: I'm just wondering why gentoo 'requires' you to 'select' one of the dependencies of libsdl
18:58:32  <otih> i have to do such foobar
18:58:34  <otih> myopts="${myopts} --with-midi=/usr/bin/aplaymidi"
18:59:43  <bobo_b> does anyone by any chance know how to create a mac alias using the console?
19:00:19  <TinoDidriksen> An alias or a symlink ?
19:00:40  <bobo_b> well, not an ln -s, but this mac-style Alias thing
19:01:02  <bobo_b> not the alias ll="ls -l" kind of alias either
19:03:41  <Bjarni> that's actually a tricky question
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19:03:48  <TinoDidriksen> Oh, those...they're rather special.
19:03:49  *** Timitry_ [] has left #openttd []
19:04:11  <Bjarni> also I presume you mean you want to make it from terminal, not the console ;)
19:04:27  <bobo_b> looks like this: -rw-r--r--@ :-)
19:04:35  <TinoDidriksen> " AliasRecord in the resource fork (accessed via the key, 'alis') and that has an empty data fork"
19:05:05  <bobo_b> TinoDidriksen: what are you quoting?
19:05:09  <Bjarni> ... resourcefork
19:05:17  <bobo_b> Bjarni: not sure i know the difference right now
19:05:22  <Bjarni> I thought that was a thing of the past
19:05:25  <TinoDidriksen> and
19:05:32  <TinoDidriksen> Alias files are from System 7
19:06:01  <bobo_b> well
19:06:05  <bobo_b> openttd wiki says:
19:06:07  <bobo_b> Make an alias of the /Contents/Resources/data/openttdw.gfr file and put it in /Contents/MacOS/ folder.
19:06:40  <TinoDidriksen> A symlink will do, surely...
19:06:55  <dihedral> yuck.... i would not do that kind of stuff - ln -s is just fine :-P
19:07:37  <glx> but why is this needed?
19:08:08  <bobo_b> i do not know
19:08:10  <petern> wiki is most likely bullshit
19:08:47  <Bjarni> err
19:08:54  <Bjarni> link to that wiki page please
19:08:58  <Bjarni> somebody wrote some bullshit
19:09:04  <bobo_b>
19:09:15  <bobo_b> starting ... > mac os x
19:09:25  <Bjarni> sure it will work, but it's not intended and makes everything way too complex
19:09:58  <frosch123> [21:09] <Bjarni> somebody wrote some bullshit <- at least he did something for once
19:10:11  <el_en>
19:10:14  <dihedral> and at lease he read the wiki :-D
19:10:52  <petern> shame it's crap
19:11:14  <dihedral> who is
19:11:14  <Bjarni> I will try to make it more sane
19:11:25  <el_en> it's someone from the united kingdom of europe.
19:11:52  <Bjarni> who isn't that important
19:12:05  <Bjarni> the point is that it should tell the right thing ^^
19:12:14  <Bjarni> also it shouldn't contain typos in filenames either
19:12:26  <el_en> can't be the king, though.
19:14:22  <bobo_b> Bjarni: how wrong is that information?
19:14:25  <bobo_b> :-)#
19:15:19  <Bjarni> well it might work, but I wouldn't even try it
19:16:04  <bobo_b> oh
19:16:05  <bobo_b> ok
19:16:24  <bobo_b> btw Bjarni, with 0.7.0:
19:16:26  <bobo_b> bash-3.2$ -D
19:16:32  <bobo_b> Bus error
19:16:39  <Bjarni> >.<
19:16:46  * Bjarni hates bus errors
19:16:48  <bobo_b> is this related to the wrong information from the wiki?
19:16:57  <Bjarni> maybe
19:17:02  <Bjarni> not sure right now
19:17:15  <bobo_b> i'll be glad to help
19:17:26  <Bjarni> I'm going to test a bit of stuff and then I will update the wiki with easy to do stuff
19:17:32  <bobo_b> unfortunately i can't give you access to that system
19:17:43  *** tkjacobsen [~tkjacobse@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:17:43  <bobo_b> (not sure if you have a mac at hand=
19:17:46  <bobo_b> )
19:18:16  <dihedral> bobo_b, he does ;-)
19:18:40  <dihedral> a few people in here do, not many though
19:19:16  <bobo_b> ah ok :-)
19:20:26  <bobo_b> anyway, i gotta grab something to eat
19:20:31  <bobo_b> i'll check back later
19:20:39  <bobo_b> bye
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19:27:33  * jnmbk hates bus errors too, a car crashed at the back of the bus this morning and he was 10 mins late to school :P
19:27:55  <Bjarni> bobo_b: refresh the wiki
19:27:58  <baldur> sounds more like a driver problem
19:28:10  <SmatZ> car driver's error
19:29:27  <jnmbk> well, yeah a driver screwing the bus leaded the problem
19:29:37  <Bjarni> jnmbk: I tried that as well. The bus should turn left and waited for traffic going the other way. A car stopped to give room for the bus (it was a narrow road) and while the bus was turning a car showed up at high speed and overtook the bus... but the bus driver didn't notice this and started moving
19:29:57  <Bjarni> the bus wasn't really damanged, but the car couldn't open the door anymore
19:30:28  <Bjarni> but... speeding and overtaking a bus while the bus uses the left turn signal.... that's stupid
19:31:24  <Bjarni> I encountered a real bus error as well. The engine temperature went into the red area and the bus stopped and we had to wait for the next one
19:32:06  <jnmbk> I saw that one, with leaking engine oil following the bus
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19:33:45  <Bjarni> I heard about a bus driver error. He left a few minutes early, noticed this and decided to turn around. The result was that the bus got jammed after turning 100 degrees when he tried to turn 180 degrees. It was one of those "bending busses" so when he reversed, he was completely stock
19:34:34  <Bjarni> and blocked traffic in 3 out of 4 lanes (the road had two lanes in each direction). To make it perfect it was around 8 O'clock in the morning on a normal work day
19:34:51  <frosch123> articulated busses getting stuck on reversing? didn't you tell him to use ottd instead?
19:35:20  <SmatZ> those new busses we got were buggy.. sometimes the doors failed to close - the driver had to restart (shutdown the engine and restart it) to close them
19:35:24  <Bjarni> I wasn't present
19:35:40  <Bjarni> LOL@SmatZ
19:35:44  <SmatZ> Bjarni: you are a present!
19:36:05  <Bjarni> ...
19:36:08  <frosch123> SmatZ: maybe closing all windows and reopening them would also have helped
19:36:10  <SmatZ> Bjarni: :-(
19:36:25  <SmatZ> frosch123: :-)
19:36:25  <Bjarni> SmatZ: you mean that I'm God's gift to you???
19:36:35  <SmatZ> Bjarni: maybe
19:36:43  <el_en> you'll need to present some evidence
19:37:04  <Rubidium> CTRL-ALT-DELETE -> task manager ->select the "doors" process and close it
19:37:13  <SmatZ> hehe
19:37:42  <SmatZ> "killall passenger"
19:38:30  <bobo_b> Bjarni: ok, so i removed the symlink
19:38:36  <bobo_b> still in 0.7.0
19:38:36  <Bjarni> I once encountered a train that had problems. The driver then went to the passenger compartment, opened a closet and pushed some buttons). The train then restarted and we could leave
19:38:45  <bobo_b> bash-3.2$ ./openttd -D
19:38:46  <bobo_b> Bus error
19:39:07  <bobo_b> afk again
19:39:28  <frosch123> Bjarni: the train was too heavy, and he dropped balast
19:39:44  <petern> completely stock?
19:39:45  <Bjarni> balast on an EMU?
19:39:46  <SmatZ> hehe, was it a pendolino? :-p
19:39:52  <frosch123> or he refilled the tank
19:40:17  <Bjarni> sure he refilled the electric tank on the EMU :P
19:40:27  <el_en> pendolino, the gift to the world from Fiat ferroviaria
19:40:48  <SmatZ> our pendolinos were broken because the door lock system at toilets broke (because of low temperature or what) - the pendolino had to be towed by a diesel train :-p
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19:40:52  <petern> pah, based on APT technology
19:41:58  <Bjarni> I like an event in the 1990s. An EMU broke and the train was replaced with the only thing they could find in time
19:42:07  <Bjarni> which turned out to be steam ^^
19:42:39  <SmatZ> hehehe
19:43:07  <el_en> SmatZ: the tilting system malfunctioning is the most common pendolino error here, i've heard.
19:43:21  <Bjarni> I was told that the passengers looked quite funny when the train showed up and it looked somewhat different from what they expected
19:43:57  <SmatZ> :-)
19:44:18  <Prof_Frink> I bet they were well chuffed.
19:44:37  <Bjarni> chuffed?
19:44:49  <Prof_Frink> chuffed.
19:45:01  <Bjarni> define: chuffed
19:45:25  <Bjarni> repeating the word over and over will not make me understand it better since I never heard it before
19:46:04  <petern> however
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19:46:22  <petern> you are, presumably, connected to the internet in such a way that you could look itup
19:46:47  <baldur> #define chuffed
19:46:47  <Bjarni> no I can't
19:46:58  <el_en> SmatZ: like this?
19:47:02  <Bjarni> I don't have an internet connection at this computer
19:47:24  <SmatZ> Bjarni: "70's-speak for the lingering, pleasant feeling of sexual satisfaction"
19:47:31  <SmatZ> el_en: not the very same, but yes :)
19:47:39  <Bjarni> el_en: it would look more interesting if the diesel were a steam locomotive
19:48:11  <Bjarni> but I have seen diesel being hauled by steam
19:48:18  <Bjarni> I have no idea why though
19:48:43  <Bjarni> I never figured out who were driving it so the explanation lacks :(
19:49:19  <el_en> i kind of cheated with that photo, as its description says the pendolino has just arriving from the harbor (and italy), and pulled to the depot for initial maintenance.
19:49:49  <el_en> but similar photos of real break-down situations exist.
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19:50:26  <Prof_Frink> I want a steam-powered maglev.
19:51:25  <petern>
19:51:34  <petern> ^ see, the APT was failing way before your pendolino
19:51:56  <petern> i kind of cheated with that photo, as its description says it's a simulated failure...
19:51:59  <Bjarni> X2000 had a tilting issue too
19:52:03  <Bjarni> it was too good
19:52:17  <Prof_Frink> It fell over?
19:52:26  <Bjarni> people could see the train turning but couldn't feel it enough so the passengers complained about motion sickness
19:52:45  <petern> APT had that too
19:52:52  <Bjarni> then they reduced the turning force compensation by 1/3 and then it's ok
19:53:08  <petern> we did in the 70s, you slow coaches
19:53:42  <el_en> the sad thing is that pendolinos were supposed to be high-speed trains, but due to the condition of the finnish railway network, pendolino doesn't drive any faster than other trains on some routes, but is more expensive.
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19:54:43  <Bjarni> speed tends to be quite expensive and the time gain usually turns out to be minimal
19:55:17  <petern> yeah, you just end up spending longer accelerating instead
19:55:17  <Bjarni> we still have max 75 km/h lines
19:55:43  <el_en> max speed 220 km/h is hardly ever maintained for more than few minutes, and sometimes the railway limits the max allowed speed to 120 km/h.
19:55:54  <Bjarni> and if the track can't handle more for whatever reason the max speed doesn't matter. It's a question of how fast it can reach 75 km/h
19:57:12  <petern> high speed might work in the US were it not for all that uber-slow freight
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20:00:26  <baldur> Bjarni: are you in Denmark?
20:00:41  <Aali> I'm taking an X40 to stockholm on friday
20:00:46  <Aali> max speed is 200km/h
20:01:00  <Aali> the trip will take 1œ hour
20:01:13  <baldur> from where?
20:01:13  <Aali> a car going 110km/h can make the trip in 1:40
20:01:15  <Aali> :/
20:02:59  <Aali> but hey, the seats are comfy
20:03:29  <Aali> and noise levels are acceptable, to say the least
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20:13:34  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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20:54:59  <mizipzor> do openttd have a seperate channel for dev talk?
20:55:31  <Brianetta> no
20:55:33  <Brianetta> here is fine
20:57:20  <mizipzor> kewl... now ive forgot what it was i meant to ask though... doh
21:01:59  <bobo_b> mizipzor: did you want to fix my Bus error when running dedicated on mac os from a remote login?
21:02:16  <bobo_b> (please?)
21:03:07  <Rubidium> lets make a counter question: could you give me a mac to test that on, please?
21:03:20  *** DaleStan [] has joined #openttd
21:06:42  <mizipzor> bobo_b: uh, i think you got me confused with someone else, i just downloaded the source myself
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21:14:04  <Bjarni> bobo_b: you want to give me permission to play with your computer using a remote login? :)
21:14:31  <Bjarni> <baldur> Bjarni: are you in Denmark? <-- no, in reality I'm a Chinese hacker who is hiding behind a Danish DNS :P
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21:33:09  <scarabeus> howdy, so do you have 0.7 ebuild ready or truebrain is no longer working on it? :]
21:34:25  * Rubidium summons otih for scarabeus
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21:35:14  <scarabeus> oh :] cool, i am just too lazy to write something myself :D and i actualy want to put it into the tree :D
21:35:21  <scarabeus> lazyness is quite popular among gnetoo :D
21:43:19  <bobo_b> mizipzor: nah, i was just kidding :-)
21:43:38  <bobo_b> Bjarni: it's a work pc, so, um, i guess... well, nah i can'T
21:43:40  <SmatZ> gentoo for the win!
21:43:58  <helb> :]
21:44:01  <SmatZ> the most popular distro among people I know :)
21:44:26  <Zuu> And I moved on to Debian, because gentoo made me doo to much work.. :)
21:44:27  <bobo_b> which one is gentoo, the compile everything yourself or the user friendly one
21:44:32  <bobo_b> or something else? :-)
21:44:40  *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@] has joined #openttd
21:44:41  <Zuu> Ie I was to lazy for gentoo :)
21:44:52  <welshdragon> grr, 2007alain2007 is really annoying me now :(
21:44:52  <SmatZ> the friendly one where you compile everything :)
21:45:07  <welshdragon> < beging last post
21:45:31  <scarabeus> nah we are use friendly, today we agreed to break kde4 enviroment for example :D
21:45:46  <scarabeus> so anyone knows about some ebuild which i can take look on? :P
21:48:28  <bobo_b> scarabeus: are you connected to gentoo?
21:48:44  <bobo_b> so the gentoo system is kinda like the freebsd ports system?
21:48:49  <SmatZ> scarabeus:;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild - but I haven't tested it :)
21:49:07  <scarabeus> bobo_b: yep
21:49:30  <otih> i tested it :P
21:49:45  <scarabeus> yeah but why you removed the scenarios and other stuff
21:49:46  <scarabeus> :P
21:49:50  <mizipzor> welshdragon: lol, i feel your suffering :p
21:50:01  <otih> you can donwload via game inside
21:50:13  <scarabeus> otih: ok
21:50:14  <bobo_b> scarabeus: yep to what? ^
21:50:16  <bobo_b> ^^
21:50:22  <Bjarni> bobo_b: I don't know why it crashes for you. It works for me :/
21:50:22  <scarabeus> bobo_b: yep to both :D
21:50:22  <welshdragon> petern: nice lock :)
21:50:28  <otih> scarabeus: you're involved in gentoo?
21:50:36  <scarabeus> Bjarni: i am gentoo dev and yes we are based on port system
21:50:41  <scarabeus> Bjarni: sorry
21:50:43  <scarabeus> bobo_b:
21:50:53  <bobo_b> yep, thanks
21:51:08  <Bjarni> for a moment I really wondered what the bus error had to do with gentoo :P
21:51:19  <otih> scarabeus: can you bump in tree?
21:51:27  <bobo_b> Bjarni: how does one debug a bus error?
21:51:35  <bobo_b> (never did much c / c++)
21:51:50  <bobo_b> java and python don't have it ^
21:51:52  <bobo_b> ^^
21:52:02  <SmatZ> bobo_b: for example, misaligned memory access (on some architectures)
21:52:16  <SmatZ> ah...
21:52:21  * SmatZ misread that
21:52:51  <bobo_b> it's kinda like a sigsegv right?
21:53:06  <Bjarni> bobo_b: first of all you install Xcode in order to get a debugger
21:53:17  <scarabeus> otih: that is what i am doing now :D
21:53:26  <bobo_b> that's already installed
21:53:31  <Nite_Owl> I foresee an angry 2007alain2007 in someones future
21:53:54  <bobo_b> weird thing is that it only happens remotely, so can i use Xcode in the terminal?
21:54:19  <otih>;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild
21:54:32  <otih> scarabeus: my ebuild ...
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21:56:36  <scarabeus> yeah already get that from SmatZ
21:56:36  <SmatZ> bobo_b: "remotely" = ssh to server, then run openttd -D?
21:56:40  <scarabeus> and updating right now
21:57:21  <SmatZ> I forgot to mention it's otih's ebuild :)
21:57:27  <Bjarni> bobo_b: ok, then the next thing is to get a debug build. Get the source and run "./configure --enable-debug=3 && make"
21:57:56  <Bjarni> naturally you configure in the directory you get from extracting the source
22:00:12  <Wolf01> 'night
22:00:18  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
22:00:44  <goodger> eight amoral, childish twentysomething men and eight vacuous, out-of-touch women clamber over each other's expensive haircuts, rough-nail-shod, for an overpaid city job with a grotty subsidiary of british sky broadcasting
22:00:51  <goodger> it can only be.... the apprentice!!!!
22:01:00  *** KingJ is now known as kingj
22:01:37  <Bjarni> goodger: ok, that was really random stuff
22:01:46  <Bjarni> how is it related to anything else going on in here?
22:02:17  <goodger> Bjarni: nothing else is going on in here recently
22:02:25  <goodger> and I wanted to say it..?
22:02:36  <otih> scarabeus: hey, could you add my overlay to layman?
22:02:47  <Bjarni> something else is going on and I don't get what you are trying to say
22:03:00  <goodger> Bjarni: perhaps a dictionary?
22:03:24  *** ctibor__ [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:03:29  <Bjarni> I understand the words, but not the collection of words
22:03:49  <goodger> would you prefer "lol the apprentice is a pile of shit"?
22:04:07  <Bjarni> I don't get what you refer to at all
22:04:35  <goodger> it's the BBC's flagship reality television programme. the concept is explained above
22:04:50  <Prof_Frink> "flagship reality television"
22:05:18  <Bjarni> reality TV is no good at all
22:05:32  * Bjarni favours a ban
22:05:58  <scarabeus> otih: i could but do you really thing it is worth of adding to layman? wont be better to push your stuff to the main tree / sunrise?
22:06:04  <Bjarni> it's all about mentally torturing people for the sole purpose of entertaining other people
22:11:11  <bobo_b> kinda like what i do with you... ^^
22:11:27  <scarabeus> otih: btw where you did find the --with-alegrol
22:11:40  <scarabeus> nm find
22:11:57  <Bjarni> bobo_b: so are you making a debug build now or should I stop waiting?
22:12:07  <bobo_b> Bjarni: running
22:12:14  <Bjarni> ok
22:12:19  <bobo_b> but i have to warn you, i gotta leave soon
22:12:23  <Bjarni> let me know when it's done
22:12:25  <bobo_b> ok
22:12:31  <scarabeus> Unknown option --with-allegrol
22:12:34  <Bjarni> it's passed midnight so I guess I will leave as well
22:12:52  <bobo_b> same here
22:13:06  <bobo_b> you got daylight saving time in denmark?
22:13:30  <Bjarni> yeah
22:13:35  <Bjarni> but I don't want it :(
22:13:54  <bobo_b> well, i like when it's still light out when i got out of work...
22:14:53  <Bjarni> we should use the old system: 12:00 is defined as when the sun is at it's highest
22:15:35  <Bjarni> daylight saving hour is actually rather dangerous
22:15:53  <scarabeus> otih: any ideas why it dies out with this option?
22:16:05  <Bjarni> during the first week after changing people are sleepy in the morning and more people are killed in traffic
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22:16:29  <Bjarni> the amount of heart attacks (or strokes, can't remember) increases by 5%
22:16:40  <otih> scarabeus: ./configure --help ;)
22:16:47  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: Yeah, but you've got it wrong.
22:16:55  <bobo_b> well, at the end of it less people will die tho, cause nobody is tired anymore
22:16:58  <scarabeus> otih: the value is there
22:16:59  <Prof_Frink> Don't get rid of summer time, get rid of winter time.
22:17:12  <bobo_b> get  rid of time itself?
22:17:30  <otih> scarabeus: i wanna bump to tree, but i dont have access
22:17:31  <Bjarni> that's an open question. My point is that changing time is a mess
22:17:34  <Bjarni> and a really stupid idea
22:17:44  <otih> so can you add my overlay to layman?
22:17:56  <scarabeus> scarab@arcarius: ~/tmp/openttd-0.7.0 $ ./configure --help |grep "\-\-with-allegrol"
22:17:57  <scarabeus>   --with-allegrol[=allegro-config]
22:18:03  <scarabeus> well open bugs
22:18:11  <Bjarni> I read that Japan isn't using it, but wondered what it would mean so they are doing a test run. They use it in 3 cities, but nowhere else
22:18:11  <scarabeus> or bug on the #gentoo-sunrise channel
22:18:15  <Bjarni> now that's messed up
22:18:16  <Prof_Frink> See, if you wake up at stupid o'clock the day after they change to watch the race, it doesn't affect you.
22:18:50  <Prof_Frink> *And* use the extra light in the evening to be out on the crag for longer
22:19:31  <otih> if i opened a openttd-0.7.0 bug today, someone would "kill" me :P
22:19:39  *** Cybertinus [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:20:03  <Prof_Frink> I don't think there's any ircops here
22:20:04  <Bjarni> otih: I wouldn't kill you
22:20:20  <SmatZ> I wouldn't kill you, you are too far from me
22:20:25  <Bjarni> I would feed you to the crocodiles... but I wouldn't kill you
22:20:29  <Bjarni> you should feel the pain :P
22:20:47  <bobo_b> Bjarni: done
22:21:08  <SmatZ> hehe
22:21:09  <otih> scarabeus: so could you add to layman ... perhaps i get cvs access one day ;)
22:21:11  <Bjarni> bobo_b: "make run-gdb"
22:21:15  <Bjarni> and then "run"
22:21:19  <Bjarni> and it crashes
22:21:42  <Bjarni> and what does bt say (don't copy paste to the channel)
22:21:47  <Bjarni> use
22:21:56  <SmatZ>
22:21:59  <Nite_Owl> have you actually ever been close to a large crocodile or alligator and do not mean 'at the zoo'
22:22:26  <Bjarni> I'm not even sure I have been close to any of those in a zoo
22:22:29  <SmatZ> my parents were :) in florida, there is a crocodile farm or so :)
22:22:59  <bobo_b> now it crashes with the same error it did before, but before i copied my ttd files in
22:23:17  <Nite_Owl> very nasty animals - they will eat you and your dog
22:23:59  <SmatZ> hehe
22:24:09  <Bjarni> my cousin had the idea to travel around USA without spending too much so he planned on sleeping outside in a sleeping bag. He just had to find somewhere where nobody would find him, but the locals told him that the aligators would find him and he would be a packed lunch for them without being able to get out of the sleeping bag in time
22:24:12  <Bjarni> he didn't think of that
22:24:19  <bobo_b>
22:24:26  <SmatZ> 8-) @ Bjarni
22:25:00  <scarabeus> otih: cleaned ebuild :]
22:25:14  <Bjarni> bobo_b: ohh... try "run -D" instead XD
22:25:24  <Bjarni> and agree to restart when it asks you
22:25:30  <Bjarni> restart the app, that is
22:25:53  <otih> scarabeus: diff? ;)
22:25:55  <Bjarni> now that would be a poor debugger... restart the computer every time you want to debug again
22:27:06  <scarabeus> otih:
22:27:35  <bobo_b> same:
22:27:35  <bobo_b>
22:28:20  <Bjarni> it makes complete sense why it only fails over ssh now
22:28:27  <bobo_b> i had that error before though. copying my ttd files in changed it to Bus error
22:28:33  <Bjarni> it tries to open the window for some reason and then it complains that it lacks a display
22:28:47  <SmatZ> maybe it opens a window to complain about missing files?
22:28:51  <Bjarni> copy the files and try "run -D" again
22:29:14  <Bjarni> SmatZ: that's likely. It would be a bug in the window handling then
22:29:17  <Rubidium> it can't create a window, how can adding files fix that?
22:29:23  <otih> scarabeus: use_with sdl is correct ....
22:29:24  <Bjarni> which I think I introduced >.<
22:29:38  <Bjarni> Rubidium: dedicated server
22:29:48  <Bjarni> it shouldn't open any windows
22:30:10  <Rubidium> well RegisterApplication sounds fairly important to me
22:30:10  <scarabeus> otih: well quite possible but if it fails with the other one i preffer sdl more
22:30:11  <otih> you can built without sdl, but with allegro
22:30:23  <scarabeus> well the --with-allegro failed
22:30:47  <otih> hmmm, where is the failure?
22:31:02  <otih> !sdl? ( media-libs/allegro[X] )
22:31:13  <scarabeus> --with-allegrol failed to find the argument
22:31:14  <otih> could deleted, if we just use sdl!
22:32:03  <bobo_b> erm
22:32:07  <SmatZ> use allegro is used by two packages
22:32:11  <bobo_b> that seems quite strange to me:
22:32:14  <bobo_b>
22:32:22  <SmatZ> hmm I am failing to emerge allegro
22:32:33  *** Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
22:32:42  <SmatZ> bobo_b: type "bt"
22:33:12  <scarabeus> anyway we preffer the sdl interface most
22:33:25  <otih> scarabeus: file names are not case sensitive, so Rubidium said ....
22:33:51  <otih> but, ebuild is ok!! ;)
22:34:04  <Rubidium> otih: now don't lie. I said that it wasn't the complete truth
22:34:05  <otih> you commit?
22:34:19  <bobo_b>
22:34:21  <otih> hehe, ok .... what is the truth?
22:34:24  <Bjarni> yeah now it crashed with the NULL pointer thing, which would cause a bus error. Looks like you managed to reproduce the same error again
22:34:38  <scarabeus> otih: i need alowance from games team but i will commit it soon :}
22:34:44  <scarabeus> otih: i am X/kde dev :D
22:34:45  <Rubidium> that both FULL UPPERCASE and full lowercase is checked
22:35:13  <otih> ah ok ....
22:35:17  <bobo_b> Bjarni, SmatZ: does that help you in any way?
22:35:21  <Rubidium> and no CamelCasing
22:35:21  <Bjarni> bobo_b: looks like running OTTD though ssh on OSX is broken right now >.<
22:35:25  <otih> scarabeus: thanks for commit!
22:35:36  <Bjarni> bobo_b: it tells me why it fails.... sort of
22:35:37  <SmatZ> bobo_b: yeah :) was the dedicated server working in the past?
22:35:44  <Bjarni> the display code is buggy
22:35:52  <otih> but, adding my overlay to layman would be nice ;)
22:36:03  <Bjarni> bobo_b: what kind of server did you connect to?
22:36:05  <bobo_b> it's working if i start it sitting at the machine, being logged in
22:36:14  <Bjarni> I mean do you have a display on the remote server?
22:36:16  <scarabeus> otih: could you drop by tomorow on #gentoo-sunrise
22:36:28  <Bjarni> <bobo_b> it's working if i start it sitting at the machine, being logged in <-- that would make sense
22:36:30  <bobo_b> yeah, it's the one i work with every day
22:36:34  <scarabeus> otih: i bet we would rip of your overlay to take the ebuilds to the tree or into the user overlay
22:36:43  <scarabeus> it is the overlay where every user can commit
22:36:51  <Bjarni> bobo_b: so basically it's a server where nobody logged in that you access though ssh right now?
22:36:54  <SmatZ> bobo_b: try "ssh -Y" instead of "ssh" when connecting
22:37:12  <otih> hmmm, i dont understand completly
22:37:23  <bobo_b> Bjarni: nobody should be logged in directly right now
22:37:29  <bobo_b> SmatZ: ok, 1 sec
22:37:44  <Bjarni> I don't think I ever tested that scenario
22:37:51  <Bjarni> didn't think of it for some reason
22:38:07  <scarabeus> otih: imagine the channel where we devs just oversee the ebuilds and users themself commit to some overlay which has official gentoo support
22:38:08  * Rubidium blames linking with carbon and that crap ;)
22:38:22  <Bjarni> didn't think much of dedicated servers at all though. I tested them when I'm logged in and they worked so I didn't do much more
22:38:29  <scarabeus> otih:
22:38:43  <SmatZ> bobo_b: also, configure --enable-dedicated should help :)
22:38:52  <SmatZ> "work around"
22:38:58  <Bjarni> Rubidium: I blame our code. The question is where it goes wrong
22:39:01  <otih> yeah ok, but my overlay has software that should not be in portage
22:39:06  <scarabeus> otih:
22:39:06  <otih> nvidia beta etc
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22:39:20  <scarabeus> hm isnt the beta on roslin overlay?
22:39:29  <scarabeus> the lazy_bums tiny uberlay?
22:39:39  <Bjarni> <SmatZ> bobo_b: try "ssh -Y" instead of "ssh" when connecting <-- OpenTTD doesn't use x11 on OSX so I don't think it will make a difference
22:40:01  <SmatZ> Bjarni: :-(
22:40:01  <bobo_b> it doesn't
22:40:11  <bobo_b> at least with the 0.6.3 version
22:40:14  <SmatZ> I thought OSX is more unix-ish :)
22:40:26  <bobo_b> it doesn't use X tho
22:40:27  <Bjarni> you can use X11 though
22:40:32  <bobo_b> well yes
22:40:39  <otih> scarabeus: could be ;) but why not add my overlay?
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22:40:56  <bobo_b> what does --enable-dedicated do?
22:41:01  <Bjarni> however try to compile with "--enable-dedicated" and see what happens
22:41:06  <Rubidium> it makes a dedicated server
22:41:11  <scarabeus> because you have 5 ebuilds there, it is pointless to have overlays with few ebuilds, it is better to support users to use some already well known overlays
22:41:21  <Bjarni> it should hopefully disable the code that makes the app crash
22:41:54  <Rubidium> nah, it'll just blow on Cocoa ;)
22:42:05  <otih> scarabeus: ok, you're right ;)
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22:43:41  <bobo_b> ok, i'm going for a smoke until make is done
22:43:45  <bobo_b> 5 mins
22:43:48  <scarabeus> otih: but really drop by, i bet we can use some of your ebuilds and force some to the tree :]
22:44:08  <Bjarni> statistically smoking takes 7 minutes
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22:44:39  <otih> scarabeus: you think my ebuilds are ok?
22:45:48  <scarabeus> well we do review usualy so you will learn from us slaping you for them :D
22:46:00  <scarabeus> i just looked on the aircrack one and the dbus looks legitime
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22:46:32  <otih> ok, you talk from bugs.g.o ....
22:48:16  <otih> $(use_with zlib) is twice in ebuild
22:48:17  <otih> ;)
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22:48:42  <scarabeus> ok i hate it
22:48:46  <scarabeus> it wont start by default
22:48:51  <scarabeus> i have to run openttd -v sdl
22:48:54  <scarabeus> :(
22:48:55  <scarabeus> blesmrt
22:49:06  <scarabeus> it could try other v if the other fails
22:49:08  <otih> hmmm, with my ebuild it works :P
22:50:36  <scarabeus> with sdl compiled
22:50:40  <scarabeus> it runs by default
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22:54:34  <otih> scarabeus:;f=games-simulation/openttd/openttd-0.7.0.ebuild;h=0b8ff3b68ff7c43439012d9757bc480eba555dff;hb=38bb434f2330555cd4c99607d25337bf9f4dd162
22:55:33  <bobo_b> re
22:55:54  <Bjarni> that took 12 minutes
22:56:04  <Bjarni> you are 5 minutes late
22:57:26  <bobo_b> had to put the dishes away i cleaned earlier
22:57:34  <bobo_b> got stealing roomates
22:58:03  <Bjarni> you stole some roommates?
22:58:12  <Bjarni> isn't that like kidnapping?
22:58:25  <bobo_b> erm
22:58:31  <bobo_b> more room for me?
22:59:19  <bobo_b>
22:59:21  <bobo_b> :-)
22:59:53  <Bjarni> ok, the problem is fixed for you... for now
23:00:11  <bobo_b> so, do i just copy the bin directory from where i built?
23:00:39  <scarabeus> otih: nice
23:00:53  <bobo_b> (usually there is a make install, so i don't know much about this)
23:01:01  <Bjarni> yes... well it needs the same version of lng and grf files, but if you compiled 0.7.0 and you have 0.7.0 somewhere else, then no problem
23:01:01  <scarabeus> otih: i am going slowly to bed so i will commit the ebuild in the morning if no bugs pop out
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23:01:14  <Bjarni> make install isn't supported on mac
23:01:19  <bobo_b> thought so
23:01:19  <Bjarni> that's a limitation of our makefile
23:01:26  <Bjarni> not make install itself
23:01:36  <Bjarni> we just decided not to code it
23:01:49  <SmatZ> "decided"? not "lazy"?
23:01:58  <bobo_b> well Bjarni, thank you very very much for your support
23:02:21  <Bjarni> SmatZ: it was a design decision
23:02:26  <SmatZ> Bjarni: ok :o)
23:02:30  <bobo_b> now that i works, i'll just go play simcity
23:02:38  <Rubidium> everything for OSX that isn't done is "decided" to be that way (by apple)
23:02:38  <bobo_b> or settlers1
23:02:48  <SmatZ> hehe
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23:02:54  <deghost> SOOOOOOOo
23:02:56  <bobo_b> oooooooooooooor...
23:02:57  <Bjarni> because at the time it wouldn't make sense. Maybe it could be introduced now with the new path handling though
23:03:03  <deghost> when is signal in tunnel comming :D
23:03:13  <Rubidium> never ;)
23:03:14  <Bjarni> but at that time it wouldn't be able to find the data files so it really didn't make sense
23:03:18  <deghost> i knew it!!
23:03:29  <bobo_b> well ok i might give openttd a shot
23:03:37  <Rubidium> though the better answer would be "when it is done"
23:03:45  <bobo_b> Bjarni: did i mention THAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANKS?
23:03:53  <bobo_b> oh, and all the others too of course
23:03:58  <bobo_b> like SmatZ
23:04:09  <bobo_b> because if i didn't...
23:04:15  *** Aali_ is now known as Aali
23:04:17  <bobo_b> i can make it even more troll
23:04:18  <deghost> openttd
23:04:20  <SmatZ> :)
23:04:23  <deghost> is the only tts
23:04:24  <deghost> to play
23:04:26  <deghost> :o
23:04:28  <deghost> ttd*
23:04:29  <bobo_b> TAHAAANX!!!!1111one
23:04:37  <SmatZ> :o)
23:04:42  <bobo_b> ^^
23:04:47  *** Vikthor [] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
23:04:50  <deghost> for more funz
23:04:56  <deghost> in making awsome huge network
23:05:00  <deghost> try @openttdcoop
23:05:04  <Bjarni> bobo_b reminds me of the joke about a boy who gets a 1000 thanks and 0 and he replies that he would have preferred 100 thanks and 00
23:05:05  <deghost> try #openttdcoop
23:05:19  <bobo_b> :-)
23:06:12  <SmatZ> hehe
23:06:35  <bobo_b> i actually thought about giving money to the project (which i don't do usually), but i only started playing (again) a week ago
23:06:46  <bobo_b> but now that you asked for it...
23:06:56  <bobo_b> have one more thanks
23:06:59  <bobo_b> :-)
23:07:09  <Bjarni> hehe
23:07:23  <bobo_b> alright, i gotta get up in 6.x hours
23:07:32  <bobo_b> so i guess i'm gonna hit the bed
23:07:39  <Bjarni> o_O
23:07:42  <SmatZ> :-p
23:07:53  <Bjarni> looks like bobo_b heads for bed to get his 6
23:08:19  <bobo_b> yep
23:09:51  <bobo_b> ok, good night
23:09:54  <bobo_b> and see you
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23:10:08  <Bjarni> you want video chat now?
23:10:18  <Bjarni> I'm not sure I would waste the bandwidth on such a thing
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23:13:13  <bobo_b> erm
23:13:15  <bobo_b> read you?
23:13:49  <bobo_b> i got so much bandwidth i'm video chatting with a tree in sweden 24/7 just to use parts of it...
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23:23:12  <deghost> omg
23:23:14  <deghost> me too
23:23:18  <deghost> can i talk to the tree?
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23:26:33  <Rubidium> videochatting with a tree in Sweden? Shouldn't that be one in the Netherlands?
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23:29:51  <Rubidium> <- she's talking to trees too
23:31:12  <otih> scarabeus: perfect! thanks for your help!
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