Log for #openttd on 9th June 2009:
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00:03:19  <Rubidium> you have to do that manually?
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04:00:53  <keikoz> hi
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05:30:11  <keikoz> please, i have a little question: could someone explain me what are the "secondary colors" that can be choosen in the color dialog box for the liveries ? When i change them, nothing seem to happen ...
05:30:43  <keikoz> (if someone's awake ^^ )
05:32:33  <kennobaka> I actually only changed the primary on one game, and never noticed anything weird
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05:37:51  <keikoz> oh it's not a problem. I'm just really curious
05:47:35  <keikoz> oh, i found the anwser: it can only be used with some newgrf
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06:28:41  <petern> and the secondary colour selector is only available if a newgrf with secondary company colours is loaded
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08:54:23  <dihedral> mornings
09:00:19  <Noldo> hi dih
09:01:44  <dihedral> :-)
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09:41:42  <z-MaTRiX> hey-ho
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10:27:21  <Muddy> i'm in a bit of a pickle.. seems like my openttd server disregards the need to have minimum 2 players connected to let the game get unpaused
10:27:30  <Muddy> now it just keeps going and going
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10:30:12  <Rubidium> what version are you using? And have you set min_active_clients?
10:31:52  <dihedral> and is it an unpatched game?
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10:36:03  <Muddy> just upgraded from 0.7.0 to 0.7.1 to see if that did the trick
10:36:37  <Muddy> and have set min_active_clients a while back, just now when i installed it on another server it seems to disregard it
10:38:15  <Muddy> ohh
10:38:21  <Muddy> i only had min_players
10:38:29  <Muddy> ;)
10:38:38  <dihedral> ...
10:38:46  <dihedral> you are welcome :-P
10:38:57  <Muddy> since when did that change? *reminds himself to read changelog more frequently*
10:39:07  <dihedral> before 0.7
10:39:33  <Muddy> guess i skipped that version when it changed then.. :P
10:39:53  <Muddy> suddenly the game had gone to year 2346 with noone playing
10:40:35  <dihedral> what did you run before 0.7?
10:41:05  <Muddy> think i did run 0.6.9
10:41:43  <Muddy> had some server-upgrades though, so don't have the old binaries anymore
10:41:46  <dihedral> interesting
10:41:52  <dihedral> i never knew there was 0.6.9
10:42:21  <dihedral> i think that has something to do with the fact that 0.6.9 does not exists :-P
10:42:23  <dihedral> *exist
10:42:32  <Muddy> lol
10:42:37  <Muddy> 0.6.7 then
10:42:43  <dihedral> nope
10:42:56  <Muddy> oh well. 0.6.x then
10:42:57  <Muddy> :P
10:43:26  <dihedral> that is really cute :-)
10:43:30  <dihedral> you actually have no idea :-D
10:43:38  <Muddy> can't remember
10:43:54  <Muddy> oh wait, perhaps i have the old config
10:44:13  <dihedral> 0.6.3 was the last stable before 0.7.0
10:44:38  <Muddy> i remember now :)
10:44:55  <Muddy> 0.6.1 according to the old openttd.cfg
10:45:10  <Muddy> that might explain a few things ;)
10:45:23  <Muddy> but i thought i upgraded to 0.6.3 too
10:45:31  <Muddy> oh well, that's in the past
10:46:02  <Muddy> btw, loving OpenTTDLib ;)
10:49:52  <Muddy> customizing atm :)
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11:08:41  <dihedral> enjoy :-)
11:08:49  <dihedral> if you need any help you know where to find me ;-)
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11:15:20  <Muddy> that i do :)
11:15:23  <Muddy> thanks
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11:22:02  <LA> good afternoon
11:22:25  <LA> planetbaker around?
11:22:55  *** LA is now known as LordAzamath
11:23:05  <LordAzamath> euh
11:23:08  <LordAzamath> planetmaker around?
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11:37:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: wth is a "WITH!!! Monday"? :p
11:37:41  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you haven't been looking at the forum enough ;)
11:38:00  <Eddi|zuHause> well, i know about the autoreplacement :p
11:38:35  <LordAzamath> whit whit whit
11:38:38  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause:
11:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so, whit monday is what we call "Pfingstmontag" over here?
11:40:45  <Rubidium> likely yes
11:41:09  <Rubidium> (at least, wikipedia says so)
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13:11:55  <dihedral> the nose in that face looks like balls (& more) :-P
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13:13:43  <SmatZ> nasty dihedral :-p
13:13:54  <dihedral> :-P
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13:14:04  <dihedral> it's not MY face :-P
13:14:20  <SmatZ> :-D
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13:14:36  <dihedral> why would anybody not see that? and then use it as an avatar? :-P
13:17:23  <petern> maybe you're just obsessed
13:19:47  <petern> which for Christians is known as WITH!!! Monday.
13:19:49  <petern> bwahhaha
13:19:51  <petern> stupid filter :p
13:20:38  <Belugas> hello
13:20:38  <Muddy> lol
13:20:49  <Belugas> "you got to get in to get out"
13:21:00  <Belugas> so true when talking aobut office...
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13:22:55  <petern> it worked for gabriel
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13:24:33  <Belugas> quite well indeed :)
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13:35:42  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16542 /trunk/src/depend/depend.cpp: -Fix [FS#2971](r16307): depend failed on architectures with unsigned char
13:38:16  <Cryloud> hi guys i want create missed 32bpp with zoom stages and missed 8bpp modells
13:38:42  <Cryloud> where i can find a actually list which buildings missed in 32bpp and 8bbp too
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13:49:53  <Eddi|zuHause> anyone remind me which platforms have signed/unsigned char?
13:50:32  <Rubidium> that's kinda undefined
13:52:17  <Eddi|zuHause> it can only be undefined in the standard, as soon as you have an actual compiler, it must be defined
13:52:59  <Rubidium> well, is 'linux' a platform?
13:53:09  <Rubidium> is 'ppc' a platform?
13:54:02  <Eddi|zuHause> no, but "gcc on XY-linux" is a platform
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13:54:37  <Rubidium> so it's basically 'which instances of compilers have unsigned chars' and 'which instances of compilers have signed chars'
13:54:51  <Rubidium> good luck making a list of that
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14:01:13  <Eddi|zuHause> "youtube, twitter and facebook will merge to form one super-time-wasting website
14:01:19  <Eddi|zuHause> called youtwitface"
14:01:28  <ddfreyne> Hi. Is this the proper channel for gameplay discussion, or is this mostly a developer-oriented channel?
14:01:46  <Eddi|zuHause> no to both, i'm afraid :p
14:01:46  <dihedral> Eddi|zuHause, LOL
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14:02:09  <ddfreyne> ah, a "hang around and be as off-topic as possible" channel? :>
14:02:20  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you're missing
14:02:34  <Rubidium> occasionally yes ;)
14:02:42  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: yes, but Conan o'Brien probably did not know about that one :p
14:02:58  <planetmaker> ddfreyne, depends :P
14:03:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: neither does it have
14:03:21  <planetmaker> It's only one thing not discussed: realizm
14:03:27  <Rubidium> doesn't seem very alive anymore
14:03:42  <Eddi|zuHause> alright then,
14:04:07  <Rubidium> don't bring Bjarni on ideas
14:04:28  <Cryloud> learn to spell bad things lol
14:05:18  <TinoDidriksen> Eddi|zuHause, re un/signed...just use C99 types int32_t uint32_t and family to be sure what you're getting.
14:05:41  <ddfreyne> anyway, if someone finds time between and facebook and icanhascheezburger and whatever... could someone explain me why my trains never make profit? :>
14:06:07  <Eddi|zuHause> ddfreyne: because you use transfer orders when you shouldn't
14:06:10  <ddfreyne> it's a rather good reflection of my real-life management skills at the moment
14:07:01  <ddfreyne> Eddi|zuHause: alright, will give the orders article a good read and check what i'm missing
14:07:38  <dihedral> how the fuck should we know what you are missing in your fridge if we have never seen it's contents??
14:08:55  <Eddi|zuHause> hey, i like flying blind
14:09:05  <Ammler> pizza
14:09:08  <Cryloud> bier
14:09:13  <Cryloud> beer*
14:09:20  <Eddi|zuHause> more often than not it shows that i actually AM psychic ;)
14:09:30  <Ammler> oh, Cryloud found IRC ;-)
14:09:37  <Cryloud> lol found
14:09:42  <Cryloud> i know there is one :d
14:09:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: he was here first
14:10:06  <Cryloud> i was here first day i see this openttd development hrhr
14:10:20  <Cryloud> but not much guys reply to my questions ;o
14:10:21  <Cryloud> ^^
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14:14:00  <Rubidium> Cryloud: then don't ask the wrong people the wrong question at the wrong time ;)
14:14:27  <dihedral> and wait longer than 1 minute for an answer :-P
14:14:37  <Cryloud> hehe
14:14:48  <Cryloud> it was 15 minutes dude ;)
14:14:49  <Rubidium> and don't expect everyone to know everything
14:14:53  <Cryloud> i know
14:15:02  <Cryloud> that was a joke look at my eyes : ^^
14:16:05  <Cryloud> now i start hear = better modelling
14:16:06  <Cryloud> :d
14:16:12  <Rubidium> and asking a question and leaving within a few minutes is.. uhm.. annoying
14:18:08  <dihedral> well can be amusing too :-D
14:18:31  <Eddi|zuHause> only the first 358 times
14:19:24  <Eddi|zuHause> which means it gets boring after 3 weeks
14:22:40  <Cryloud> ^^
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14:47:06  <Muddy> <-- OpenTTDLib implemented, needs a bit work, but i'll get to it ;) easy to fix :D
14:47:38  <Muddy> gonna convert it to use mysql as a backend for serverhostnames and ports
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14:59:15  <dragonhorseboy> just wondering about it but is opengfx generally made up of individual author licenses right?
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15:01:46  <Yexo> he? OpenGFX is released under the gpl license
15:02:26  <dragonhorseboy> ah ok
15:06:46  <Sacro> I don't think all of it is GPL
15:06:52  <Sacro> not sure all of the first people agreed to it
15:07:59  <planetmaker> Sacro, they did. They were asked and those who didn't agree got their contributions removed.
15:08:08  <Sacro> planetmaker: ah right
15:08:16  <Sacro> i know i posted a reply early on about that
15:08:47  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker and yexo thanks :)
15:10:50  <dragonhorseboy> btw if you don't mind me asking, just quite what is 'yexo'? ;)
15:10:59  <Yexo> nothing
15:11:34  <dragonhorseboy> heh just a random name I take it?
15:12:07  <Yexo> exactly
15:12:29  <dragonhorseboy> fair enough
15:12:52  <Cryloud> any suggestions ?
15:13:25  <dragonhorseboy> hm say I came up with a silly idea of your name... You Ever Xeroxed Orudg? :)
15:13:34  <dragonhorseboy> heh I missed an E there
15:14:40  <dragonhorseboy> cryloud...hmm..a bit weathering of the walls and maybe the upper rim of the smokestacks being smoke dirty but otherwise looks nice
15:14:45  <planetmaker> Cryloud, I wonder what the big brick / concrete plate on top of the ground floor is supposed to be...?
15:15:14  <planetmaker> and where do the stairs lead to and how does one access the ground floor?
15:15:27  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..I'll assume the small door to left of stairs? :)
15:15:37  <Cryloud> hmm i dont know
15:15:43  <Cryloud> i can change it lol ^^
15:15:45  <dragonhorseboy> and the stones could be a balacony from a back door access on second floor
15:15:48  <planetmaker> it looks a bit magritte - like to me :P
15:15:53  <dragonhorseboy> (would NEED fences tho)
15:16:08  <Cryloud> fences ? ok no prob
15:16:13  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, a balcony with no fence? hahaa. Nice for children and drunken people.
15:16:17  <Cryloud> the stairs = directly wy to upper stages
15:16:25  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..see what I said, duh? :P
15:16:26  <Cryloud> and the another is an entry to first etage
15:16:31  <Cryloud> sry my english suxx
15:16:44  <dragonhorseboy> cryloud its ok - at least we can comprehend it :)
15:16:48  <Cryloud> there is no balacon
15:16:53  <Cryloud> :p
15:17:01  <dragonhorseboy> cryloud..then what are these stones for?
15:17:27  <Cryloud> was a gimmick i dont now i play a bit with the textures, i can delete it = )
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15:18:10  <planetmaker> Cryloud, it doesn't hurt to have a balcony. But the concrete layer is IMO way too thick
15:18:12  <dragonhorseboy> heh ok
15:18:39  <planetmaker> given the proportions it's about 1.5m or so.
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15:19:53  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker what think of my suggestion on the smokestacks anyway? (oh and I dunno but maybe 2 or just 1 instead of four would seem better, what you think?)
15:20:16  <Cryloud> hmm
15:20:17  <planetmaker> one is sufficient.
15:20:19  <Cryloud> ok mom
15:20:32  <planetmaker> or two at most.
15:20:40  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker yeah
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15:23:45  <Cryloud>
15:23:50  <Cryloud> i hope its better ^^
15:23:57  <Cryloud> i use translator for u guys kik
15:23:59  <Cryloud> lol
15:24:01  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker but anyhow the reason I asked about opengfx license was from wondering about reusing some sprites in another grf .. but its just a thought yet of course
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15:24:47  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, you may - if it's under a GPL license and you credit the contributors of those sprites.
15:25:03  <Sacro> and include the licence and release souce
15:25:17  <Sacro> *source
15:25:17  <dragonhorseboy> release source?
15:25:21  <planetmaker> Sacro, the first: yes. The latter is not required. Only upon request :)
15:25:34  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, all the things which you needed in order to compile the newgrf.
15:25:42  <planetmaker> e.g. nfo files and images. at least
15:25:45  <Cryloud>
15:25:46  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..ah..yeah I'll pass on that
15:26:04  <Yexo> planetmaker: but if you don't publish the source, you have to make a written offer for providing the source
15:26:12  <dragonhorseboy> license..I'll add that to the readme file
15:26:25  <planetmaker> Yexo, sure. And sure I'll ask for the source then :)
15:26:33  <dihedral> Yexo, really?
15:26:41  <dragonhorseboy> hey dihedral
15:26:46  <Yexo> hello dihedral
15:26:48  <dihedral> :-)
15:26:49  <_ln> dihedral, really
15:26:50  <Yexo> dihedral: serious question?
15:27:13  <dihedral> :-)
15:27:34  <dihedral> Cryloud, where is that house supposed to fit? on a 64x64 map?
15:27:49  <Cryloud> i dondt kniow ? u can change the size on the .png ?
15:27:51  <planetmaker> dihedral, it's a one-tile house it seems to me.
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15:27:54  <Cryloud> i dont know it works
15:27:59  <Cryloud> im only a artist = )
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15:28:33  <dihedral> :-)
15:28:40  <planetmaker> and it's hopefully possible to scale it down to 64 pixels width :)
15:28:45  <Cryloud> i want integrate it on 32bpp + zoom and 8bpp, when it would missed in the list
15:28:50  <planetmaker> Cryloud, you may want to try it actually :)
15:29:11  <Cryloud> i dont know how i can try it or test it thats my problem ;)
15:30:01  <Cryloud> yeagh its a 1 tile house
15:30:06  <Cryloud> one*
15:30:37  <Cryloud> i hope it is really missed i showed here
15:31:07  <Cryloud> was 20 minutes of work ) not much but i dont work for useless buildings
15:31:15  <Cryloud> hmm the grammatic its crap right ? :D
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15:35:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Cryloud: the house looks nice, but the projection is not right
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15:38:25  <Cryloud> lol not again :o
15:38:39  <Cryloud> whats wrong. the angle ?
15:38:59  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you can't send in a picture with the wrong projection...
15:39:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, at least the angles are wrong
15:40:19  <planetmaker> Cryloud, the building would IMO also profit, if some of the windows featured flower pots on the outside.
15:41:29  <Cryloud> any props where i can download ? hmm eddi one moment it must fit look here, i have a screenshot with the right angle and it fits
15:42:54  <Cryloud>
15:42:56  <Eddi|zuHause> as much as i like flying blind, can i see the settings dialog which shows which projection you use? i know the all the necessary theory, but i can't explain it to you when i don't know what you are able to set up
15:43:25  <Cryloud> i didnt use a specific projection, i rotate the object to the angles
15:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> it must be a projection... whether you know it or not...
15:44:36  <Cryloud> it is front projection
15:44:41  <Eddi|zuHause> anything showing a 3d object on a flat surface is a projection
15:44:49  <Cryloud> and only i rotate the object with the specific angles
15:45:13  <Cryloud> and render it then
15:45:17  <planetmaker> Cryloud, rotating it is something different than choosing a projection.
15:45:21  <andythenorth> if two pythons are good, are three better?
15:45:58  <planetmaker> a projection is the mathematical method to convert n-dimensional tupels to m-dimensional tupels
15:46:07  <planetmaker> e.g. a 3D coordinate to a 2D coordinate
15:46:57  <Cryloud> hmpf how u know i doesnt fit ? = (
15:47:06  <Noldo> does it have to be linear?
15:47:07  <planetmaker> nether the rotation of the building nor the rendering actually is part of that
15:47:29  <planetmaker> Noldo, a projection does not need to be linear. This one: yes.
15:47:33  <Cryloud> i was asking here and a gu said it is correct now
15:47:35  <Cryloud> hmpf
15:47:39  <Noldo> planetmaker: continuous?
15:47:44  <planetmaker> Noldo, e.g. (x,y,z) -> 0
15:47:49  <Eddi|zuHause> Cryloud: on a close look, it might fit, but i can't tell unless i know exactly what projection is used
15:47:53  <planetmaker> is also a projection. Quite trivial, though
15:48:30  <planetmaker> Noldo, not even that. Who tells you that source and destination are continuous sets?
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15:48:37  <Cryloud> its a front projection i show it to u one moment ...
15:48:38  <planetmaker> could be discrete.
15:48:41  <planetmaker> Like R -> N
15:48:51  <planetmaker> no Q -> N
15:48:55  <planetmaker> works continuously
15:49:11  <planetmaker> at least Q is dense(?)
15:49:25  <planetmaker> in the set of real numbers
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15:50:19  <Eddi|zuHause> dense yes, but not continuous (in the sense that Q has not the cardinality of the continuum)
15:50:48  <planetmaker> well Q is countable, R not, yes.
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15:51:11  <planetmaker> But continuous it is nevertheless.
15:51:19  <Eddi|zuHause> between any two values of Q, there is a value of R between them
15:51:24  <LordAzamath> I can has greet ppl :)
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15:53:42  <Cryloud> here
15:53:43  <planetmaker> Behold folks: Infrastructure sharing patch beta3 has been released and compiled. Thanks for compilation from the compile farm!
15:54:00  <dragonhorseboy> well I'm going for now
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15:54:10  * LordAzamath thanks the compile farm
15:54:27  <_ln> infrastructure sharing.... when will we see it in trunk? it would be about time.
15:55:09  <Yexo> _ln: as always, when it's done
15:55:15  <planetmaker> _ln, not yet. Still needs testing and it's not done yet.
15:55:29  <planetmaker> But you can help it by playing it a lot and testing all the nasty corner cases :)
15:57:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Cryloud: that looks awfully overcomplicated
15:57:46  <Cryloud> XSI is not easy i know
15:57:57  <Cryloud> on the first look
15:58:30  <Cryloud> but in blender u must create a specific angle with ur camera settings
15:58:40  <Cryloud> and thats be 45 and 30 or 26.56
15:58:52  <Cryloud> when i do that with my objects its the same imo
15:58:55  <Cryloud> i mean ;o
15:59:53  <Cryloud> here is a thread i started in the german xsi community = and one of them has show me how i can do it in xsi (this guys use blender)
15:59:54  <Cryloud>
16:00:03  <Rubidium> how long does it take before 'they' understand that no camera angle with get 'the right' angles?
16:00:09  <Cryloud> guys -s
16:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause> not before "they" understand that a parallel projection is not a perspective view
16:01:21  <planetmaker> Cryloud, yup. Read what Rubidium says. It's not a matter of the camera position. It's a matter of the projection. The conversion from 3D to 2D.
16:02:32  <Belugas> [12:01] <Cryloud> but in blender u must create a specific angle with ur camera settings   <---  "U" is a letter, not a word.  "UR" is an ancien middle-eastern city.  Does not fit in your sentence
16:02:39  <Rubidium> what you need is a projection where a cube (with all edges equally long) shows all vertical edges equally long, instead of the further an edge is away from the camera the smaller it looks
16:02:50  <Cryloud> i have no parallel projection, i can ortographic and perspective
16:03:39  <Cryloud> sry belugas my english isnt perfect i know = )
16:03:53  <Cryloud> i learned it only over the www
16:04:09  <Belugas> helping you getting it better ;)
16:04:14  <Cryloud> yep
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16:05:14  <Rubidium> Cryloud: you need the isometric projection
16:05:17  <Cryloud> so you want say rubidium, i havent to rotate my object, only my camery, that quite a bit complicated to bring the camera right on
16:05:25  <Cryloud> isometric doestn fit too
16:05:47  <Cryloud> i have posted one isometric projection in the thread and one guy checked the angles = is too wrong
16:05:48  <planetmaker> It comes close, but doesn't do it quite. Yes.
16:06:21  <planetmaker> DaleStan actually mentioned the right name of the required projection.
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16:07:01  <Cryloud> hmm
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16:12:05  <Cryloud> Orthographic
16:12:16  <Cryloud> Uses an orthographic projection. All camera rays are parallel, and objects do not change size as they change distance from the camera. This projection is useful for architectural and engineering renderings.
16:12:43  <_ln> could also try pornographic projection
16:13:10  <Cryloud> ;o
16:13:15  <Eddi|zuHause> it's actually a really easy mathematical projection you have the basis vectors of your axis x=(1,0,0) (along the back left edge of the tile), y=(0,1,0) (along the back right edge of the tile), and z=(0,0,1) (height of the building. then you have the target vectors of these base vectors in screen coordinates: (1,0,0)->(-2,1), (0,1,0)->(2,1), (0,0,1)->(0,-sqrt(5))
16:13:30  <Eddi|zuHause> from these three vectors, you can construct the transformation matrix
16:13:48  <planetmaker> Cryloud, yes. But the angle of orthogonal ground lines needs to be a special one.
16:14:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i think the game rounds the sqrt(5) to 2, not sure
16:15:09  <Cryloud> omg ^^^
16:15:19  <planetmaker> :)
16:15:24  <Cryloud> hard and heavy this projection ...
16:15:39  <Eddi|zuHause> honestly, this is one of the easiest projections of all ;)
16:15:46  <Cryloud> i do a new track for that rofl
16:15:48  <Cryloud> nah
16:15:56  <Cryloud> isometric is easier
16:16:17  <Cryloud> tell to xsi user that projection he looks like me then lol
16:16:55  <Cryloud> hmm it is that ? :
16:16:55  <Cryloud> Optical Center Shift (inches)
16:17:01  <Eddi|zuHause> isometric is the same as these, only the 2 change into 2*sqrt(3) and the sqrt(5) changes into 2 (i think)
16:17:02  <Cryloud> Controls the offset from the camera2019s optical center in X and Y.
16:17:26  <planetmaker> Cryloud, no other projection will do, though... And a center offset neither.
16:18:48  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, without the 2*, i believe
16:19:29  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e (1,0,0)->(-sqrt(3),1), (0,1,0)->(sqrt(3),1), (0,0,1)->(0,-2)
16:19:58  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the (30?) isometric projection
16:20:17  <petern> dimetric
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16:21:13  <Eddi|zuHause> no, dimetric is something different
16:21:43  <Eddi|zuHause> dimetric has irregular angles, and a scaling factor of 0.5 on the y axis
16:22:25  <petern> no
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16:22:34  <petern> dimetric just means two of the angles are the same
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16:22:47  <Cryloud> thats crap, i cant set any angles like that for the camera
16:23:07  <Cryloud> that projection must have a specific name
16:23:55  <planetmaker> dimetric :)
16:24:04  <Eddi|zuHause> petern: no, isometric means all axises(?) have the same scaling factors, dimetric means there are two different scaling factors, and trimetric means three different scaling factors
16:24:31  <Eddi|zuHause> has nothing to do with the angles
16:26:35  <petern> i'll stick with axonometric then :p
16:27:07  <Cryloud> u said parallel
16:27:16  <planetmaker> eh?
16:27:28  <Belugas> ttd-metric
16:27:31  <planetmaker> axes of a coordinate system must not be parallel.
16:27:48  <petern> arctagent(0.5)
16:28:02  <planetmaker> @calc atan(0.5)
16:28:02  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 0.463647609001
16:28:10  <planetmaker> @calc atan(0.5)*180/3.1415
16:28:10  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 26.5658346714
16:28:15  <Cryloud> oh man is that shitty :d
16:28:25  <Cryloud> 26.5658346714
16:28:28  <Cryloud> thats what i got
16:28:31  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: parallel projection does not mean the axes must be parallel. it means lines that are parallel in the 3d-model are also parallel in the projected model
16:28:45  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, yes, I know that :)
16:29:35  <Rubidium> the beauty of non-extra-zoom graphics is that it's (almost) unnoticable if you're a few degrees off, with those gigantic ones it becomes very noticable
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16:32:02  <petern> hmm, planetmaker rounded pi incorrectly ;p
16:32:18  <petern> 3.1416, if you go to 4 digits
16:32:36  <planetmaker> hehe :)
16:32:40  <planetmaker> I truncated :)
16:32:41  <petern> you know that 0.0001 of a degree makes a big difference ;)
16:32:51  <Eddi|zuHause> 3.1415926535898... everybody knows that...
16:33:01  <planetmaker> petern, depends upon.... your distance :)
16:33:12  <planetmaker> @calc 0.0001 * 3600
16:33:12  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 0.36
16:33:19  * Rubidium wonders when people stop rounding pi
16:33:23  <planetmaker> uh... fraction of an arc second
16:33:43  <petern> @calc atan(0.5)*180/pi
16:33:43  <DorpsGek> petern: 26.5650511771
16:33:52  <planetmaker> oh, works :)
16:34:04  <petern> 0.0008 out, infact!
16:34:11  <planetmaker> oh goodness!
16:34:12  <blathijs> Rubidium: More interestingly, is when will they stop calculation when not rounding pi? :-)
16:34:15  <petern> shocking
16:34:16  <Cryloud> masturbate is easier !
16:34:17  <planetmaker> @calc 0.0008 * 3600
16:34:17  <DorpsGek> planetmaker: 2.88
16:34:21  <Cryloud> :d
16:34:27  <planetmaker> a whole whopping 3 arc seconds.
16:34:40  <petern> best solution: hand draw everything at the correct (i.e. original) size
16:34:44  <Eddi|zuHause> planetmaker: if you are calculating astronomical distances, fraction of a parsec off is still quite some distance ;)
16:34:57  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, I'm well aware of that :P
16:35:12  <petern> Eddi|zuHause, and yet also an acceptable error margin
16:35:22  <Cryloud> wow good work
16:35:27  <frosch123> every good c program needs a "#define PI 3.14" at the top
16:35:31  <Cryloud> i didnt daved my house and have now a failure
16:35:33  <Rubidium> blathijs: in high school I was always allowed to answer pi/2 instead of 1.5.....
16:35:41  <planetmaker> Eddi|zuHause, though at a parsec distance, an arc second difference is "only" 1.5e11 m off :)
16:35:41  <petern> not 3?
16:35:54  <petern> er
16:35:54  <Eddi|zuHause> #define PI 3 /* 1 Kings 7:23 */
16:35:59  <petern> what is 'daving' a house?
16:36:10  <planetmaker> frosch123, that's very, very ugly and insufficient :)
16:36:30  <frosch123> planetmaker: I was talking about good c programs :)
16:36:34  <Cryloud> wow that piss me off now first error because i changed camera settings byebye building roflmao
16:36:38  <Ammler> make target bundle gone?
16:36:55  <planetmaker> uhm... "good" or good, frosch123 ? :P
16:37:09  <frosch123> "c"
16:37:15  <_ln> the fundamental problem with "#define PI 3.14" is that you cannot change the value of pi without recompiling.
16:37:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <frosch123> planetmaker: I was talking about good c programs :) <- you can say lots of stuff about the members of the empty set
16:38:05  <planetmaker> haha :)
16:38:16  <_ln> a modern application would allow chaning it run-time, perhaps fetching the value from some source online.
16:38:29  <_ln> +g
16:38:43  <Ammler> he just forgot to :/configure
16:38:53  <planetmaker> lol :P
16:38:57  <petern> store it in xml!
16:39:23  <planetmaker> _ln, it's no problem to implement a routine to calculate the missing digits :)
16:39:50  <planetmaker> it exists a method to calculate the n-th digit without knowing all previous ones -iirc
16:39:51  <Eddi|zuHause> <real>
16:39:56  <Eddi|zuHause>  <digit>3</digit>
16:39:58  <Eddi|zuHause>  <decimal>
16:40:01  <Eddi|zuHause>  <digit>1</digit>
16:40:03  <Ammler> couldn't make just "reconfigure" in those cases?
16:40:07  <Eddi|zuHause>  <digit>4</digit>
16:40:11  <Eddi|zuHause> [...]
16:40:15  <Eddi|zuHause> </real>
16:40:40  <Eddi|zuHause> damn, must be <decimal/>
16:41:20  <_ln> planetmaker: but if the value of changes to e.g. 5.1415, in that case the online update would be useful.
16:41:49  <petern> pi version 2.1
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16:43:18  <Eddi|zuHause> surely, with the many milennia that humanity calculates with pi, we are at versions way beyond that ;)
16:43:46  <planetmaker> hehe, yes
16:47:50  <Cryloud> im lucky -.-
16:48:01  <Cryloud> xsi has it recovered man man
16:48:10  <Cryloud> so i have found the camera settings
16:48:20  <Cryloud> its 2 dina4 letters long ...
16:48:31  <Cryloud> DIN A4
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16:59:33  <Cryloud> check it pls
16:59:48  <Cryloud> hmm thats wrong
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17:06:22  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: translators * r16543 /trunk/src/lang/russian.txt:
17:06:22  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-09 17:05:46
17:06:22  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: russian - 6 deleted, 276 changed by Lone Wolf (282)
17:07:35  <Cryloud> so o have now a projection with x = 26,5658346714 and y = 45
17:12:21  <Eddi|zuHause> that picture above is definitely not the right projection
17:13:16  <petern> it's not orthographic
17:20:19  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16544 /trunk/src/ (vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: use double-linked list for vehicle position caches in order to improve performance (~5% with many vehicles)
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17:21:08  <planetmaker> hehe. I just read the last output line "performance (~5% with many vehicles)" and my guess right then "that must be SmatZ work" was right again :)
17:21:22  <SmatZ> ;-)
17:22:22  <Cryloud> its not 26,.......
17:22:25  <Cryloud> its 30 !
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17:25:16  <petern> wrong
17:26:14  <planetmaker> Cryloud, certainly not :)
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17:26:20  <planetmaker> just count the pixels.
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17:26:25  <planetmaker> and do the math
17:26:32  <planetmaker> it's really simple actually.
17:26:39  <petern> tosse's off
17:27:25  <planetmaker> whatever you measure anywhere - there's no way around denying that the tiles' borders have an angle of atan(0.5) with the horizontal line
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17:30:38  <petern> or
17:30:45  <petern> arcsin(tan(arctangent(0.5))) = 30 degrees
17:30:49  <petern> *shrug*
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17:35:18  <Eddi|zuHause> tan(arctan(.)) is somewhat redundant :p
17:36:14  <petern> most likely
17:36:32  <petern> just plugging things in in the wikipedia equations
17:37:23  <_ln> wikipedia-based math is somewhat dangerous
17:37:44  <Eddi|zuHause> wikipedia-based anything is dangerous
17:38:06  <Eddi|zuHause> we should petition to unconditionally block access to wikipedia
17:38:28  <Eddi|zuHause> it is proven to contain child porn, after all...
17:38:33  <_ln> yes
17:39:45  <Eddi|zuHause> why is reading from a DVD slower than writing on it?
17:40:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a DVD+RW, which is writable with x4 speed (~5.5MB/s)
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17:40:56  <Eddi|zuHause> when i copy the stuff to the HD, it reads with ~2.1MB/s
17:41:16  <Prof_Frink> Because you need more laser power to write it, which makes it faster.
17:42:00  <SmatZ> when you throw DVD into fire, it will be burned in second
17:42:07  <SmatZ> but nobody ensures it will be readable
17:43:44  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 4700*1024/30/60
17:43:45  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2673.77777778
17:44:46  <Eddi|zuHause> @calc 4700/30/60
17:44:46  <DorpsGek> Eddi|zuHause: 2.61111111111
17:46:03  <FauxFaux> 'cos you've written to it so many times it needs to read about 20 times per sector to get plausibly good data back?
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18:20:29  <Chruker> eddi, are you reading it using the burner or a dvd-rom drive?
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18:25:42  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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18:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> Chruker: it's a burner, but not the same one that was writing the data
18:33:54  <Chruker> hmm, I've had the same problem when I tried reading dvdr's with my dvd-rom drive. But when read with the burner they read normaly
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18:34:55  <Chruker> iirc, it was something about the laser in the dvd-rom not being able to read the disc good enough
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18:50:34  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Hello
18:51:19  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Anyone with station-coding knowledge/experience available to chat for a minute or two?
18:52:03  <Yexo> in general you get more response if you just ask what you want to ask, instead of asking for someone to ask or asking for permission to ask
18:52:18  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Point taken :)
18:53:31  <Noldo> we are salivating to hear what your stationn-coding problem is
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18:53:44  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Don't get your hopes
18:53:50  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> When creating a station layout, is it possible to assign 49 unique sprites to a 7x7 station?  I'm starting over with trying to learn NFO, and am working with the Wiki, Forum searches, and a ridiculously generic *.pcx that I made with 49 numbered sprites...
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18:54:21  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Using GRFMaker, I've managed to get things off the ground, but am not seeing a way to get all 49 squares (I see an odd assortment of about 4 or 5 different tiles)
18:54:54  <frosch123> you are limited to 65536 different sprites per station
18:55:36  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Thanks, frosch!
18:55:39  <frosch123> take a look at callback 14
18:55:57  <frosch123> and station property 09
18:56:27  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Will do
18:57:03  <frosch123> hmm, actually 65536 is slightly wrong, only around 32000
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18:57:38  <Chicago_Rail_Authority> Not to worry - as long as the answer is "something ridiculously greater than 49" that answered my
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20:05:11  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16545 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Cleanup: tunnels have been returning correct SlopeZ since r1
20:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause> that commit message reads weirdly...
20:07:06  <SmatZ> :-(
20:07:46  <Eddi|zuHause> i mean compare SmatZ to SlopeZ ;)
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20:08:09  <SmatZ> :-)
20:08:42  <petern> it does read weirdly :p
20:09:18  <Belugas> hehehe
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20:09:37  <Belugas> so from now on, tunnels will not retunr correct SlopeZ :D
20:09:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't really figure out what was actually changed
20:10:04  <petern> removing a workaround that wasn't needed
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20:20:38  <dragonhorseboy> hm drats..when did anyone see purno?
20:21:01  <Yexo> @seen purno
20:21:01  <DorpsGek> Yexo: purno was last seen in #openttd 42 weeks, 0 days, 5 hours, 13 minutes, and 46 seconds ago: <Purno> ey
20:21:17  <planetmaker> :O
20:21:34  <planetmaker> dragonhorseboy, mail him via forum mail
20:21:52  <dragonhorseboy> oh didn't realize there was a bot in here as well (I was thinking of patchbot :p )
20:22:52  <Nite_Owl> also you might want to ask your PBS question here
20:22:56  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..we'llsee
20:23:04  <dragonhorseboy> nite_owl..its not even the same pbs so? :P
20:23:21  <Nite_Owl> sorry - my bad
20:23:34  <dragonhorseboy> nite_owl..yeah it can be a bit confusing..two different pbs systems
20:24:50  <oskari89> Different PBS?
20:24:58  <oskari89> Hmm, LR PBS?
20:26:15  <Nite_Owl> no - between OpenTTD & TTDP
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20:33:57  <dragonhorseboy> well if anyone here does know about pbs for the patch (rather than ottd's :p ) .. I'm wondering how long the reserved rail sections can be? (I'm sure it can be more than 2 tiles but..well just wondering what the limit actually was)
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20:36:28  <dragonhorseboy> :)
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20:39:07  <dragonhorseboy> nite_owl you ever tried to make and manage a busy city rail station? :)
20:39:26  <Nite_Owl> Yes
20:40:26  <dragonhorseboy> I used to .. crazy without pbs .. re all trains waiting each turn at the underused junction :)
20:43:14  <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: ?
20:43:16  <dragonhorseboy> nite_owl oh I do sometimes still use pbs on these certain mainline crossovers...
20:43:23  <Nite_Owl> either your junction was too big or you did not have enough platforms for the amount of trains or your trains were not spaced out enough
20:43:49  <dragonhorseboy> lets just say the northbount train passes by the southbound trains without any actual signals between the two lines at all :D
20:44:19  <dragonhorseboy> nite_owl.. nah with pbs the junction gets full with almost no trains waiting for long so, go figure with that
20:44:58  <dragonhorseboy> ah 64 tiles .. thats lot more than I thought .. thanks a lot nite_owl :D
20:45:32  <Nite_Owl> thank Rubidium not me
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20:46:29  <dragonhorseboy> hmm 64 .. maybe I could try elborate (right spelling?) crossover&flat junctions into a large station and see how well it works :)
20:46:31  <Eddi|zuHause> two names with same length and same colour... you can get confused ;)
20:47:10  <dragonhorseboy> eddi...sorry I just realized that now..sometimes when the room scrolls by fast I always assume the person I was talking to the most
20:47:17  <planetmaker> I don't see two names with same colour :)
20:47:33  <dragonhorseboy> planetmaker..I only see one single colour in the room .. black ON EVERYONE :D
20:47:38  <dragonhorseboy> heheh
20:48:45  <Nite_Owl> I can not speak for TTDP PBS as I am not familiar with it
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20:52:09  <DaleStan> dragonhorseboy: There are actually two limits: PBS paths may be at most 64 tiles, of which at most 7 may be junction tiles.
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20:53:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds... limited...
20:54:05  <Eddi|zuHause> but maybe i'm just spoiled by YAPP's awesomeness ;)
20:55:43  <Nite_Owl> I was hoping DaleStan would chime in there
20:57:20  <DaleStan> It probably wouldn't be that hard to raise the 7, but raising it too much could cause stack overflow.
20:57:36  <dragonhorseboy> nah dalestan.. 7 is more than plenty
20:57:58  <Belugas> as long as it's not a steak over-burned...
20:57:59  <dragonhorseboy> imagine a junction that is 7x7 tiles large .. I mean who would actually do THAT completely unsignalled? :)
20:58:14  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe TTDP's small maps cause a generally more compact building style, so 7 tiles may be enough, i don't want to judge that
21:02:29  <Belugas> and now...
21:02:31  <Belugas> good night
21:02:45  <Nite_Owl> later Belugas
21:02:56  <planetmaker> night Belugas
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21:03:19  <petern> dragonhorseboy, saying "7x7" implies you've not understood the limits
21:04:25  <Eddi|zuHause> <- i think i have paths with more than 7 crossings here
21:05:19  <Eddi|zuHause> i count 11, anyone beat that?
21:05:44  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, 12 even
21:06:08  <Rubidium> a crossing is a tile with 2 or more rail pieces, right?
21:06:44  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that was my assumption
21:06:56  <Eddi|zuHause> well, two non-parallel rail pieces
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21:07:49  <Ammler> hmm, if I have a lag of around 10 secs, when I push Multiplayer to open the server lobby, is that again a fw issue
21:08:01  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, now i counted one with 15
21:09:02  <Eddi|zuHause> i could make a call-in show out of this, and earn millions...
21:12:43  <Xaroth> Ammler: i have that as well, but only when it tries to re-query the 'last server' entry
21:12:50  <Xaroth> it just hangs for a few seconds, then continue
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21:14:32  <Ammler> Xaroth: in trunk?
21:16:03  <Xaroth> r..whatever ottdc is running
21:17:01  <Xaroth> i have a hunch it's got something to do with querying the server, as before it hangs it has no server info, just the ip, when it's not hanging anymore it has the server details
21:18:08  <dragonhorseboy> hmm yeah I did try a quick station setup (as if it could ever actually support busy large trains .. population is only 716, ha) and it looks possible to make a simple 3-platforms station that only need one enterance and one exit pbs signals for the mainline side
21:18:35  <dragonhorseboy> train only has to clear one tile of track out of platform to make it free for next pbs trains to enter same platform
21:18:59  <dragonhorseboy> I'll have to try make a scenario with a real city to try it out
21:19:03  <dragonhorseboy> (not now tho)
21:19:04  <Ammler> ah, if I have some unreachable servers in my fav list, maybe
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21:20:59  <dragonhorseboy> rubidium want me upload a screenshot?  keeping in mind I just threw it together in only a minute so its not as streamlined as I would had liked it
21:26:22  <dragonhorseboy> eddi that is quite some mess of rails there heh .. is that a ET86 (or did I recall the wrong class?) on the short passenger line there?  I kinda can tell these apart from other emus because they have the odd locomotive cab smacked in middle between two coaches
21:26:56  <Eddi|zuHause> ET-87 i believe it's called
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21:27:08  <dragonhorseboy> (and I only can guess you have four prussia steam locomotives there.. green boilers gives it away)
21:27:10  <dragonhorseboy> ah yeah
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21:27:40  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. the black ones on the freight trains are of the same class
21:27:45  <Eddi|zuHause> just... black ;)
21:27:46  <dragonhorseboy> eddi did you ever build TEE trainsets? (the turbine powered cream/red yeah)
21:28:14  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah... i have a picture like that... wait
21:28:24  <dragonhorseboy> I always seem to build these so often for some reason :P
21:29:32  <dragonhorseboy> I do keep them short (so usually they rarely venture into the large cities unless its in middle of their run) because I find that otherwise they seem to have difficulity keeping up speed over up&down's associated with bridges and slight grades
21:29:49  <dragonhorseboy> usually 3 to 6 carriages I think it was
21:30:25  <dragonhorseboy> larger or more-frequently-stopping trains almost always get some good decidated locomotives of the BR1xx classes :)
21:31:13  <dragonhorseboy> starting with both single and doubleheaded BR112 up to TEE-painted BR160 hauled sets .. usually 11-20 carriages per train as if that tells you how much work they have cut out for them!
21:32:25  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i can't find a picture of them... i only have a locomotive powered TEE set,%2017.%20Okt%201981.png
21:33:06  <Eddi|zuHause> some electric ones as well
21:33:34  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm sure i had the turbine powered in this game, but i don't seem to have a picture
21:33:36  <dragonhorseboy> V200?
21:35:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, that is a V200
21:36:40  <dragonhorseboy> thought so..hard to miss them
21:36:51  <dragonhorseboy> red with gray roof .. and the sides slanting inward at top
21:37:09  <dragonhorseboy> although if you looked for one in real life you can also tell by the Y shaped exhaust ports
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21:38:42  <dragonhorseboy> eddi...oh yeah and somewhere last year (forgot which month exactly) the very last VT-95 (although it wasn't red but anyway) was finally retired from service for good - replaced by road buses somewhat insultingly enough
21:38:58  <dragonhorseboy> 'today's railway: europe' had one article on this
21:40:52  <dragonhorseboy> hm brb to eat
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22:10:20  <dragonhorseboy> back
22:10:30  <dragonhorseboy> just need make a few more trains then I'll show you something eddi ;)
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22:24:21  <dragonhorseboy> you still around eddi?
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22:37:09  <dragonhorseboy> bah guess another time
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22:46:50  <Eddi|zuHause> that's a prime example...
22:46:52  <fjb> Hello
22:47:01  <Eddi|zuHause> a) use tab completition for highlighting people
22:47:26  <Eddi|zuHause> b) just say what you want to say, instead of waiting for people to say that they are listening
22:48:14  <Eddi|zuHause> the kids never learn...
22:48:51  <SmatZ> :o)
22:49:48  * fjb never says that he is is never listening.
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23:12:41  <kkb110> hi, I have a question
23:13:13  <kkb110> does aystar in openttd consider reforming map landscape?
23:13:42  <Yexo> the ai pahtfinder libraries do not consider terraforming at the moment
23:13:50  <kkb110> ok thank you
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23:22:49  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16546 /trunk/src/misc/hashtable.hpp: -Codechange: use array member instead of allocating in costructor and freeing in desctructor
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23:25:31  <Nite_Owl> Need to feed - later all
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23:31:43  <capleton> hello
23:31:56  <capleton> i got an idea, kinda.
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23:33:12  <capleton> why not make a function for switching the view, turn it 90 degrees clockwise or something, i know there are functions to remove buildings, trees etc but i think this would be really cool.
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23:33:27  <capleton> there's probably some work to be done codewise though :P
23:33:46  <capleton> too bad im not that good in C, would be nice too help out
23:35:01  <CIA-3> OpenTTD: smatz * r16547 /trunk/src/map.cpp: -Codechange: make CircularTileSearch a tiny bit faster
23:35:04  <Eddi|zuHause> common suggestion. basically impossible to do.
23:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is not the programming, the problem is the graphics
23:36:27  <Eddi|zuHause> there are no "backside" views of most buildings
23:37:03  <SmatZ> use the "frontside" grphics :)
23:37:32  <Eddi|zuHause> this is not possible for buildings which have rectangular shape
23:37:46  <Eddi|zuHause> e.g. the bank (2x1), or the hotel (1x2)
23:38:14  <SmatZ> you have to "swap tiles" too
23:38:36  <SmatZ> but yes, it will be impossible for irregular shapes like rail stations
23:39:42  <Eddi|zuHause> you would at least have to dynamically calculate a vertically flipped view
23:40:05  <Eddi|zuHause> which might make writings appear in reverse
23:40:18  <SmatZ> :-)
23:41:07  <kkb110> for the bank like 2x1,  I think it can be done just by filliping the graphic left-right isn't it?
23:41:13  <capleton> [01:37] <SmatZ> use the "frontside" grphics :)
23:41:17  <capleton> yeah, like that
23:41:31  <capleton> don't switch the graphics, just switch the viewpoint
23:41:37  <capleton> would work :)
23:41:49  <capleton> allthough maybe awkward
23:41:50  <capleton> hehe
23:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it would not. i explained some of the critical cases
23:42:34  <capleton> yeah i saw
23:42:40  <capleton> damn, too bad.
23:42:41  <Eddi|zuHause> other examples are the airport buildings
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23:42:49  <capleton> a flipped view would be really cool
23:42:53  <SmatZ> or steel mill, for example
23:42:57  <kkb110> oh I see airports right that's a problem
23:43:01  <capleton> yeah i see your point
23:43:57  <capleton> on a complete other subject, anyone of you a hockeyfan?
23:44:11  <Eddi|zuHause> no.
23:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> nobody here is.
23:44:44  <capleton> ah, you're the PR man?
23:44:47  <capleton> ;)
23:44:51  <SmatZ> #openfaceoff ;)
23:45:00  <capleton> haha
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