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00:03:21 *** Plimmer [~Plimmer@x1-6-00-50-7f-bf-a4-d2.k402.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 00:04:40 <Plimmer> Heya, I've been trying to copy planetmakers terminus station from http://www.openttdcoop.org/blog/2008/08/30/under-the-scope-path-based-signals-terminus-2-way-roro-stations/ and he is using some signals I havent got in my version of openttd (nightly), can one of you shed some light on that? It's the signal with a yellow light. 00:05:14 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 00:13:06 <Yexo> it are just different graphics for the pbs signals 00:15:12 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1F4B4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:37 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@BAE822a.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:26:35 <welshdragon> i just lost the game 00:26:55 <SirSquidness> bah 00:27:06 <SirSquidness> thanks 00:27:07 <SirSquidness> :p 00:28:00 <welshdragon> i was hoping Prof_Frink would see that 00:29:07 <SirSquidness> I'm sure he/she will. 00:29:10 <SirSquidness> in good time 00:33:43 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-252-43.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:34:54 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e180228125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 00:45:21 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:57 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-228-175.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:06:05 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:06:05 *** Ridayah [~ridayah@173-19-228-175.client.mchsi.com] has joined #openttd 01:08:24 <SirSquidness> welshdragon: a friend is annoyed. You stole his job. He insists it's his job to make me lose the game. :p 01:11:54 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77DA5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:12:25 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 01:25:52 *** George [~George@212.113.107.216] has joined #openttd 01:26:34 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:843e:c1ee:41fc:9cae] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:33:04 *** George3 [~George@212.113.107.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 01:34:02 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host81-156-5-103.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 01:34:24 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.9.39.188] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- It'll be on slashdot one day...] 01:55:52 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B753D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:04:16 *** Eddi|zuHause2 is now known as Eddi|zuHause 02:04:27 <Eddi|zuHause> somebody stole my internets! 02:17:13 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [] 02:34:25 *** Plimmer [~Plimmer@x1-6-00-50-7f-bf-a4-d2.k402.webspeed.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:41:13 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@12.161.178.130] has joined #openttd 02:41:50 *** Xaroth_ [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has joined #openttd 02:41:50 *** Xaroth [~Xaroth@86.92.135.101] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:44:44 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B753D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:44:59 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B753D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 02:51:18 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host81-156-5-103.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:21 *** reldred [~reldred@wirele5.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #openttd 03:08:34 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:13:00 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:33:20 *** reldred [~reldred@wirele5.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:09 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm113.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #openttd 03:39:15 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:43:12 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 04:05:53 *** Xyzzy [~Albert@dsl-246-221-224.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #openttd 04:18:57 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-139-252.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:33:25 *** db48x [~db48x@64.218.49.85] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.4.0 Virgo] 04:39:27 *** _ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 04:41:49 *** Singaporekid [~notme@cm113.psi148.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Quit: presposterous] 04:50:10 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@12.161.178.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:55:05 <_ln> good morning to you too 05:07:49 *** Chicago_Rail_Authority [user@c-76-100-52-121.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:09:23 *** reldred [~reldred@wirele5.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #openttd 05:09:44 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has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:06:51 <blueleader> hi...who help me with instalation of oepnttd?? 08:08:40 <blueleader> I used openttd 0.7.1 RC3..it worked ok, but after upgrade on openttd 0.7.1 the game faild... 08:09:37 <blueleader> hi...are you here? 08:11:34 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.144.214.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 08:11:39 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 08:12:32 <Rubidium> blueleader: failed in what way? 08:14:43 <blueleader> rubidium: after instalation the game need original set of dos graphics and I donŽt know why?? when I just instal finale version od O.7.1 08:16:08 <Rubidium> is it complaining about *only* TRGT.GRF? 08:17:54 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 08:17:54 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 08:18:10 *** blueleader [~blueleade@radio1.infos.cz] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] 08:18:24 *** blueleader [~blueleade@radio1.infos.cz] has joined #openttd 08:19:20 <blueleader> the original error message is : Failed to select requested grapfics set "origilan_dos" 08:20:15 <Rubidium> go to the install directory of OpenTTD and find orig_dos_de.obg (in data/ directory) and remove that file 08:22:53 <blueleader> I do it now, but:-(...new error game need TGR1.grf and next graphics file from TTD CR-ROM...but i have just "new" windows files... 08:24:07 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@94.80-202-138.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 08:24:14 <Rubidium> then open openttd.cfg (probably in mydocuments/OpenTTD/), find the line with graphicsset = "orig_dos" and remove that 08:26:25 <Rubidium> however you either have created that configuaration file yourself, which means you had the dos graphics with the 0.7.1-RC3 version or you copied the config from someone with the dos graphics 08:28:13 <blueleader> thanks...I go to try it... 08:28:14 *** blueleader [~blueleade@radio1.infos.cz] has quit [Quit: Bye for 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[~fenris@p5B0D6429.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 10:46:35 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16579 /trunk/src/smallmap_gui.cpp: -Codechange: rework smallmap code a bit; remove goto, remove some unneeded variables, return value directly instead of writing it to a variable to later return that 10:47:26 <Rubidium> fonsinchen: sorry ;) 10:48:26 <petern> ? 10:48:46 <Rubidium> oh, I broke one of his patches ;) 10:49:35 <petern> arr 10:49:52 <Rubidium> though this will reduce his patch size 10:54:43 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.254.3] has joined #openttd 10:56:05 <Phazorx> were there some changes in options touching in-a-way stations? as in track depriorising stations (yapf pealty) 10:56:05 *** dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable160.111-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 10:56:31 <Phazorx> trains seem to stop on them now, didn't used to be like that 10:57:13 <Rubidium> changes since when? 10:57:16 <dragonhorseboy> just have one nitpick to say about IS2 if anyone minds .. how come when all three rail sharing options are turned on and the companies enabled there's still no mean to actually join any new company A tracks to existing company B mainline? seem to annoying makes the sharing feature useless if trains can't reach 10:57:52 <dragonhorseboy> (and the player is rarely online so its pointless waiting for them to finally be around to make the junction for you hopefully the way you needed it) 10:57:58 <Yexo> Phazorx: most likely you are not using non-stop orders 10:58:06 <dragonhorseboy> don't mind my ranting there :-> 10:58:28 <Phazorx> Yexo: these trains just pass by, they have no orders for that station at all 10:58:45 <Phazorx> Rubidium: since like a year ago 10:58:46 <petern> dragonhorseboy, actually we do. speak to hirundo on the forums 10:58:54 <Rubidium> default order = stop at all stations you pass 10:58:56 <petern> or, i suppose, here, heh 10:59:13 <Phazorx> Rubidium: is it disableable? 10:59:26 <Rubidium> Phazorx: set "non stop" orders 10:59:30 <dragonhorseboy> petern..heh 10:59:56 <dragonhorseboy> petern..other than that one slight issue at times I actually am having fun sharing airports and planes already :) 10:59:58 <Rubidium> Phazorx: since 0.7 there is a new order system that allows you to both have non-stop and via orders instead of only one 11:00:08 <Phazorx> Rubidium: that's a bit tidious... there can be 100 of them on a big map and that number changes all the time 11:00:32 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.144.214.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 11:00:36 <Rubidium> Phazorx: tedious in what way? 11:00:57 <Phazorx> Rubidium: are you familiar with concept of pathfinder penalty station? 11:01:05 <fonsinchen> oh, nice. Did you just clean up some of the magic in smallmap? 11:01:09 <Rubidium> Phazorx: a bit 11:01:20 <Phazorx> imagine big network with hundreds of them 11:01:26 <Rubidium> yes 11:01:41 <dragonhorseboy> petern I've actually kinda wondered about when jonty resets the map I'll have to try adjust my fee accordingly then try act as a company that only owns tracks alone but contracts out to everyone else to run the actual trains 11:01:48 <dragonhorseboy> but then who knows :P 11:01:53 <Rubidium> whether there is 1 or a million, it doesn't matter for the non-stop order; it ignores ALL stations until it comes to the station in the order 11:02:13 <Rubidium> with the via order it stops at all stations and passes through the station in the order 11:02:24 <Phazorx> scartch that... not even possible actualy - a train on multi track mainline can use some and not use others i can not list them in orders 11:02:26 <Noldo> Rubidium: he seems to be refering to the amount of work needed to change all the orders in his network 11:02:32 <Rubidium> with non-stop via orders it ignores all stations and passes through the station in the order 11:02:56 <Phazorx> Rubidium: that applies to stations thatare in the list corect? 11:03:14 <Rubidium> Noldo: he seems to be thinking that you need to list all stations it must NOT stop at in the order list with non-stop 11:03:22 <Noldo> ah 11:03:37 <Phazorx> say A is origin D is destination, there are multiple tracks a train can choose, one of them has B and C and other track has none 11:03:44 <Phazorx> what the order list should be for that train 11:03:54 <Rubidium> go non stop to D 11:04:01 <Rubidium> and if you want to go back 11:04:06 <Rubidium> go non stop to A 11:04:32 <Phazorx> so non stop applies now to the way before the station rather than to the station itself? 11:04:33 <Rubidium> if D is a waypoint it becomes go non stop via D 11:04:50 <Rubidium> Phazorx: yes and via applies to the station in the order list 11:04:59 <Phazorx> i see so via is old none stop 11:05:08 <Phazorx> and none stop is old option of ttdpatch non stop handling? 11:05:12 <Rubidium> Phazorx: depending on the settings 11:05:40 <Phazorx> i actually havent found in advanced options nothing relevant to non-stop stations 11:05:46 <Rubidium> Phazorx: I get always confused with what non-stop means with ttdpatch non-stop handling turned on/off 11:06:02 <petern> "ttdpatch non stop handling" was a CROCK of BULLSHIT 11:06:04 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.16.17.207] has joined #openttd 11:06:14 <petern> non-stop means non-stop, i.e. don't stop along the way 11:06:22 <Phazorx> petern: nethertheless it was an option in ottd config which i remember 11:06:32 <petern> it was, it was shit 11:06:41 <Rubidium> Phazorx: with emphasis on *was* 11:06:52 <Phazorx> well thanks for clarification 11:06:56 <Rubidium> Phazorx: Vehicle -> "New orders are 'non-stop' by default" 11:06:59 <Phazorx> i didnt get the memo :) 11:07:15 <petern> you got the changelog 11:07:17 <Rubidium> Phazorx: then read the changelog ;) 11:07:20 <Phazorx> Rubidium: and what exactly that option does if i may ask? 11:07:41 <Phazorx> that would be quite a hefty log for 12-14 months 11:07:47 <Phazorx> but i'll do that some day 11:08:10 <Rubidium> Phazorx: what about making new orders 'non-stop' by default? 11:08:41 <Phazorx> Rubidium: that sentence is not clear to me 11:08:49 <Phazorx> at least was not 11:09:07 <Rubidium> i.e. if you make a new order instead of being "go to X" it will be "go non-stop to X" 11:09:19 <Phazorx> gotcha now 11:09:19 *** Splex [~splex@c-24-245-55-70.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:09:46 <Rubidium> so much easier to remember than what ttdp compatible non-stop means 11:13:14 <Phazorx> i rembered it as "click here and it works" 11:13:46 <Rubidium> please explain what it means for someone who doesn't know ttdp ;) 11:14:35 <Phazorx> tyeah... well in my case renaming the option to something more meaningfull would have more sense than changing concept of what the old thing was 11:15:12 <Rubidium> Phazorx: well, renaming wouldn't make non-stop via orders possible 11:15:47 <petern> the system has vastly changed 11:15:50 <petern> it's not just a rename 11:17:07 <Phazorx> petern: i can se that now... can you enlighten me on the gist of the changes? 11:17:37 <Rubidium> 1) making the settings more clear 11:18:13 <Rubidium> 2) making it possible to have non-stop *AND* ttdp compatible non-stop in the same game, in the same order list and in the same order 11:18:31 <Rubidium> 3) making it more clear for newbies 11:18:54 <Rubidium> 4) making non-stop available for waypoints 11:19:03 <Rubidium> 5) making non-stop available for road vehicles 11:19:11 <Phazorx> werent way points non stop by default? 11:19:39 <petern> no reason for it 11:19:46 <Phazorx> and i should try rv non stops... perhaps it can be usefull 11:19:51 <petern> you want to go via that waypoint, doesn't mean you don't want to visit any station before it 11:20:13 <Phazorx> petern: but that would really be "any station" 11:21:11 <Phazorx> btw, anything was changed in aspect of entry/exit/combo signals 11:21:28 <Phazorx> is it possible to do round robin switching or something of that nature now? 11:24:33 <Ammler> Phazorx: set the advanced setting for degault behaviour, before you load a "older" save 11:24:42 <Ammler> ups, forgot to scroll :-) 11:24:57 <petern> presignals have not changed 11:25:07 <petern> but yapp is there and generally much better 11:25:16 <petern> unless you're the freaky sort who likes priority systems 11:25:28 <dragonhorseboy> heh 11:26:07 <dragonhorseboy> I do have to admit I liked the two path signals additional in ottd .. makes it easier to manage the ottd-typical large junctions 11:26:37 <Phazorx> petern: i'm beyond level of freaky 11:26:46 <petern> yes 11:26:51 <petern> you're phazorxy 11:27:04 *** thingwath [~thingwath@wired-78.fi.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 11:27:10 <dragonhorseboy> heh 11:27:13 <Phazorx> i'm glad you see it this way ;o) 11:27:47 <Phazorx> one more thing i'd like to ask since i got dev's attention now 11:28:14 <Phazorx> diagonal speed is still sqrt(2) * regular ? 11:28:43 <Phazorx> and trains still strech when they enter curves? 11:28:44 <Rubidium> it never has been sqrt(2) * regular 11:28:59 <Phazorx> i should rephrase that 11:29:35 <Eddi|zuHause> whatever the behaviour once was, it is probably not going to change 11:29:59 <petern> behaviour hasn't changed 11:30:01 <Eddi|zuHause> because it comes with a big load of secondary changes 11:30:10 <petern> guess what 11:30:14 <petern> i made a patch for it once... 11:30:21 <Eddi|zuHause> :) 11:30:30 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: i sugegst "superficial aproach" that would not require major changes 11:30:35 <Phazorx> trying to find the bug report 11:30:37 <Phazorx> and failing now 11:30:45 <Phazorx> looks like it was not only closed but deleted 11:31:16 <petern> there is no superficial approach 11:31:18 <Rubidium> bug reports aren't delete 11:31:41 <Rubidium> petern: there is; no diagonal rail, but only 90 degree turns 11:31:47 <petern> :D 11:31:52 <Phazorx> that wasnt what i suggested 11:31:59 <Phazorx> i offered different math 11:32:16 <Phazorx> which would affect cost calculated 11:32:19 <petern> the thing with fixing it properly is you break every single newgrf 11:32:32 <petern> but incidentally, you don't break the original graphics 11:32:36 <Phazorx> i understand that and was never suggesting anything of the likes 11:33:02 <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: problem is, not only the speed is wrong, also the length, and changing that will need graphical changes as well 11:33:12 <Phazorx> i'd rather live with cost being off a bit when trains move diagonally than see them strch as they turn 11:33:57 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: yes i/m aware of that but graphical changes will be at engine level 11:34:00 <Eddi|zuHause> you are not making sense 11:34:00 <Phazorx> not the newgrf 11:34:29 <Phazorx> lemme find the damn bug post 11:34:37 <Eddi|zuHause> no, what petern meant that newgrfs abuse the current system to make it "look right" 11:34:40 <petern> cost? what? 11:34:56 <Eddi|zuHause> if you change that, it will "look wrong" 11:34:58 <fonsinchen> Rubidium: Actually I was going to change RemapX and RemapY as they are only called for RemapCoords. So I was going to write a special RemapCoords for smallmap. 11:35:12 <fonsinchen> And remove RemapX and RemapY again. 11:35:40 <Phazorx> Eddi|zuHause: streching trains and different speeds of head and tail of same train does not look wrong to you now? 11:35:52 <petern> it's not different speeds 11:36:03 <petern> hmm 11:36:09 <petern> actually it is, isn't it :) 11:36:12 <petern> hehe 11:36:27 <petern> Phazorx, basically i made a patch 11:36:27 <Rubidium> not having the trains stretch ==> not having too wide graphics for trains ==> changes in graphics ==> requires newgrf changes. Not having to change NewGRF implies that you don't stetch trains 11:36:33 <petern> i tried very hard to make it work 11:36:38 <Phazorx> petern: can i have a lookse? 11:36:42 <petern> but it just wouldn't, without crashing 11:36:47 <Phazorx> ahh.. 11:36:51 <petern> anyway, the movement code got changed after that, so maybe it's possible now 11:36:52 <Rubidium> s/don't stretch/don't change stretching' 11:37:07 <Eddi|zuHause> Phazorx: whatever it is, people are used to it, and changing it will make people upset 11:37:27 <Phazorx> who cares about people this gae is about trains 11:37:34 <petern> lol 11:37:38 <petern> no it's not :) 11:37:49 *** Phazorx was kicked from #openttd by Rubidium [you're not a train! ;)] 11:37:55 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 11:38:45 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.144.214.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 11:39:06 <Rubidium> hmm, did I just break Phazorx? 11:39:42 <fonsinchen> He was thinking he's a train. So your comment induced an existential crisis. 11:39:48 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 11:48:20 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has joined #openttd 11:48:29 <Smoky555> hi all :) 11:49:02 <Smoky555> does anybody know, from what grf pack/file is this trees? http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=83689 11:49:45 <Yexo> the snowy trees are custom and never published I think 11:49:54 <Yexo> the non-snowy versions are stolen trees (by SAC?) 11:50:49 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.144.214.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 11:51:27 <Ammler> Smoky555: you find on the openttdcoop page a tabe with all grfs in the pack, there is also a link to the published snomy stolen tree. 11:51:42 <Ammler> snowy* 11:51:52 *** Operation [Operation@220.79.179.76] has joined #openttd 11:51:58 <Smoky555> Ammler : ok 11:52:06 <Operation> hello.. 11:52:16 <planetmaker> hello 11:52:32 <Operation> i have a question..^^; 11:52:40 <Operation> please teach me 11:52:41 <Yexo> I have questions too 11:52:44 <planetmaker> who would have guessed ;) 11:53:07 <Operation> i want to make goal server. but i don't know that 11:53:16 <Yexo> you have to patch the server yourself 11:53:22 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.144.214.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has joined #openttd 11:53:26 <Operation> patch? 11:53:35 <Yexo> yes, and then compile it 11:53:50 <Operation> where get this patch? ^^;; 11:54:07 <Yexo> where did I say there was an existing patch? 11:54:34 <Yexo> you might find something by searching for OHG, (openttd hard goal), but there site seems to be done 11:54:43 <Operation> oh.. 11:54:48 <Yexo> there repo was still up last time I checked 11:55:14 <Operation> i try join OHG web page. but i can't. permission denied. 11:56:28 <Operation> Yexo thank you ^^; 12:02:17 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f05c:e81:9475:e708] has joined #openttd 12:02:20 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 12:05:21 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 12:10:58 *** LordAzamath [~rightwing@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has joined #openttd 12:15:38 * dragonhorseboy wonders where commcody could be now 12:33:11 *** Operation [Operation@220.79.179.76] has quit [Quit: You will be aided greatly by a person whom you thought to be unimportant.] 12:35:44 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80AE8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:37:57 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80FF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 12:38:00 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 12:45:05 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.114.144.214.plusnet.thn-ag1.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 12:48:22 <dragonhorseboy> heh seem both channels are quite dead now 12:53:17 <Noldo> dead? 12:53:56 <Rubidium> #openttd at freenode is dead 12:54:04 <Rubidium> this channel isn't quite dead yet 12:54:09 *** Chicago_Rail_Authority [user@c-76-100-52-121.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 12:54:11 <dragonhorseboy> noldo..yeah noone seem to be talking at all 12:54:50 <Noldo> that like saying a night club is lame because there is no people in the daytime 12:57:32 *** Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 13:01:18 <dragonhorseboy> so what you doing? 13:03:13 <Rubidium> getting annoyed by pointless smalltalk 13:05:09 * dragonhorseboy pokes rubidium (then why are you on irc?) 13:09:14 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B753D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:33 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B753D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 13:13:35 <Rubidium> asking things related to OpenTTD, like: 13:13:53 <Rubidium> why do we have an extend_vehicle_life option? Does anyone use it? 13:14:29 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:14:35 <Rubidium> can it be removed? why doesn't it prevent overflowing? 13:15:13 <Eddi|zuHause> imho, vehicle lifetime should be reworked 13:15:34 <tokai> extend_vehicle_life, is that the option which stops vehicles from getting old or the one which stops from vehicle types to disappear? I use both of them :) 13:15:45 <Eddi|zuHause> like celestar once proposed: vehicle lifetime should be the time it takes for the vehicle to drop to half reliability 13:16:05 <Belugas> H e l l o 13:16:11 <LordAzamath> oh omg hai 13:16:16 <LordAzamath> :) 13:16:26 <LordAzamath> Hello Belugs 13:16:29 <LordAzamath> eurgh 13:16:30 <tokai> If you play only for the railroad network buildup... then all this timeout stuff can get annoying.:) 13:16:31 <LordAzamath> typos 13:16:44 <Belugas> i kow the feeling LordAzamath ;) 13:16:48 <Belugas> gaa.. +n 13:16:55 <Eddi|zuHause> tokai: i use daylength for that ;) 13:16:56 * Belugas silences now 13:17:01 <LordAzamath> haha 13:17:29 <Rubidium> but with extend_vehicle_life vehicles still get old, only later (or earlier if it overflows) 13:17:39 <Eddi|zuHause> if only there were a trunk-quality daylength patch :( 13:18:01 <planetmaker> go go go, Eddi|zuHause ;) 13:18:05 <LordAzamath> write it :) 13:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: what exactly does that setting do? 13:18:19 <LordAzamath> or get planetbaker to write it :D 13:18:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the name is not very descriptive 13:18:45 <Eddi|zuHause> if you want them to build it for you, press 1? 13:18:51 <tokai> Rubidium: That sounds a bit pointless. Just ON/OFF for this kind of thing is good enough IMHO. No need to spam the game with millions of options. A bit streamlining can't hurt there:) 13:19:19 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: it adds between 0 and 100 years to the vehicle's life 13:19:24 <petern> we have it because ttdpatch has it, i think 13:19:52 <Eddi|zuHause> that doesn't seem to make a lot of sense 13:21:46 <Rubidium> petern: vehicles never expire => persistent engines, but extend vehicle life => ? (I can't find it) 13:22:52 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 13:23:30 <petern> persistent engines again, i believe 13:25:20 <petern> hmm, or not 13:27:55 <LordAzamath> TF2 time :) 13:28:03 <LordAzamath> or no 13:28:08 <LordAzamath> actually Portal perhaps 13:29:36 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 13:31:18 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16580 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: rename Engine::image_index to original_image_index to not confuse it with image_index from *VehInfo. 13:33:14 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] 13:33:20 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE822a.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:14 <Belugas> DeathMole ride again! 13:36:03 <Eddi|zuHause> i can never tell if this is a line from a song or a random outburst of insanity 13:36:23 <Eddi|zuHause> ... or both ;) 13:38:09 *** Spoons [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:40:56 *** LordAzamath [~rightwing@82.131.16.156.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]] 13:45:15 *** Plimmer [~Plimmer@x1-6-00-50-7f-bf-a4-d2.k402.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd 13:47:17 <Belugas> that is my course of action: play DeathMole ;) Thus, DeathMole rides again on my mp3 player! 13:47:17 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.176.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:43 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.161.146] has joined #openttd 13:50:58 *** reldred [~reldred@115.131.212.192] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:50 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514d1d2e.l3.c1.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:31 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16581 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify the access to Engine::lifelength. 14:00:49 <dragonhorseboy> is there no way to make ottd default to full load rather than that 'full load of any cargo' thing? 14:01:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i second that (implicit) request... 14:01:37 <Belugas> the default of one is not the default of the other 14:01:43 <Belugas> proof is... 14:01:46 <Belugas> your request ;) 14:02:08 <Eddi|zuHause> better: allow setting defaults for each of the dropdown boxes in the order window 14:02:11 <dragonhorseboy> belugas..I want my train to be 100% full not what ottd thinks is only 20% which is not *actual* full load 14:02:22 <dragonhorseboy> :) 14:04:10 <Rubidium> the answer on dragonhorseboy's question is no 14:04:44 <dragonhorseboy> so what is the meaning of "full load" if its not even at least 80% of many trains? 14:06:28 <Eddi|zuHause> if your train carries 8 bags of mail and 300 passengers, full load (any) means leave if you have either 8 bags of mail or 300 passengers, full load (all) means leave if you have both 8 bags of mail and 300 passengers 14:06:34 <Rubidium> huh? full load any cargo => if at least one cargo type is fully loaded that requirement passes 14:07:08 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..whats the point of only eight bags when there could had actually been 300 passengers instead? 14:07:21 <blathijs> You might want a full load (passengers) or full load (biggest) then :-) 14:07:24 <dragonhorseboy> (such is the annoyance of so many emus that can't even be refit to pure passenger) 14:07:26 <petern> COULD HAVE BEEN 14:07:29 <dragonhorseboy> neverminding ANY planes 14:08:01 <Eddi|zuHause> planes are special, they always focus on passengers 14:08:05 <Rubidium> planes always full load passengers (some ancient hack) 14:10:46 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 14:11:40 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: feel free to provide an infrastructure (code and gui) to allow full load of a specific cargo... but dropdowns with >7 entries are troublesome (there can be up to 32 cargos) 14:12:16 <Eddi|zuHause> (7 is the number of objects the human brain can track simultaneously) 14:12:44 <dragonhorseboy> hmm or know what, just had a second thought now - 'ttdpatch compactible full load' button in the advanced configuration? 14:12:44 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: but 1 dropdown isn't enough, you might want to have a train with 32 cargos that full loads all except one! 14:13:00 <dragonhorseboy> or something by that name anyhow 14:13:07 <Rubidium> what is 'ttdp compatible full load'? 14:13:25 <dragonhorseboy> so I don't have to keep chasing 30+ trains that refuse to actually load passengers just because they couldn't be refit 14:13:54 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium..same behaviour as the patch? 14:14:01 <Rubidium> which is? 14:14:45 <Rubidium> based on TTDP's manual the full load type that they add is "full load any" 14:15:30 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:15:48 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: you can easily add a newgrf that adds the refit option 14:15:50 <dragonhorseboy> I've always had my train waiting till they were actually full before leaving .. ever since 2.5 beta-1 14:16:16 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: so choose "full load" instead of "full load any" from the dropdown! 14:16:28 <dragonhorseboy> don't recall touching anything (aside to ever-changing town growth..I'm still not sure its right yet) through all version updates 14:17:13 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium..or make it actually the same click as ever since either ttdp or ottd 0.5x? :) 14:18:03 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: that would limit loading to either "full load" or "full load any" game wide, which is restrictive 14:18:14 <dragonhorseboy> (hm which of sometimes the chat line annoying pops up when I hit T wanting to build a tunnel...at least I rarely build any tunnels in ottd anyway so meh don't care) 14:18:50 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why i said, just add an option for the default setting. there is a default setting for non-stop, and one for middle-stop, but not one for full load... 14:18:57 <dragonhorseboy> rubidium..so are you saying you'll prefer a lot of trains to not even have half of their capacity used at all? 14:19:18 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...that what I just thought before too :) 14:19:21 <Rubidium> dragonhorseboy: where did I say that? 14:19:24 <Eddi|zuHause> the problem is, it should be more flexible 14:20:00 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...btw I tried the middle-stop thing for a while but finally just ignored it because when the train stopped in middle it would then run forward to end of platform before turning around .. not sure if its just a bug with IS2 build or not 14:20:03 <Eddi|zuHause> now for something completely different: someone once told me that refits with a capacity of 0 are problematic, is that still the case? 14:20:39 <dragonhorseboy> (and yes the difficulty setting says trains can reverse at stations) 14:20:55 <Eddi|zuHause> like if an engine has 3 different liveries throughout its lifetime, and i want to change the livery without selling/rebuying the engine 14:21:05 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I don't know, I guess you should ask frosch 14:21:18 <Eddi|zuHause> then i would want to have current-date-dependent refit options 14:21:36 <Eddi|zuHause> but the engine should not carry cargo in any case 14:21:38 <dragonhorseboy> eddi hmm you could ask danmack and OZ about it because canset allows you to refit locomotives to different livery and these locomotives have zero cargo capacity (eg EMD F7 in three colours) 14:22:16 <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: the question is, is that refit independent from the attached wagons? 14:22:33 <dragonhorseboy> eddi...ah hmm good question :/ 14:22:41 <Eddi|zuHause> or are actually the wagons refitted, and the engine changes look based on that 14:23:21 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:46 <dragonhorseboy> eddi..in canset the passenger wagons sometimes change to match the engine .. eg if you refit the F7 is VIA then the coaches are blue .. but if its CN instead the coaches become black-white 14:23:56 <dragonhorseboy> but freights are static for most part I think 14:24:42 <Eddi|zuHause> also, i believe they introduce a special hidden cargo type for that 14:25:18 <Eddi|zuHause> but i'm not really sure how that works 14:26:09 <dragonhorseboy> you always could ask either danmack or OZ about it I'm sure 14:27:33 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad38368.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:30:26 *** svip [~svip@v4040.bulk-server.net] has joined #openttd 14:31:08 <planetmaker> <Eddi|zuHause> dragonhorseboy: the question is, is that refit independent from the attached wagons? <--- it can be either or, afaik 14:31:08 <svip> Wait, suggestion of realism is no longer a bannable offence? 14:31:08 <svip> This is an outrage. 14:31:08 <planetmaker> it's a special cargo type. 14:31:08 <dragonhorseboy> anyway I'm going for now ;) 14:31:15 *** dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable160.111-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 14:31:25 <planetmaker> and livery refit could be conditional on the wagons wagons. 14:33:22 <planetmaker> cargotype 0x80000000 or alike is reserved for such intricacies. 14:33:38 <petern> good luck with that 14:33:43 <petern> cargo type is a byte 14:33:47 *** lobstah [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: AS A VAGINA ONCE SAID: <yorick> SOMEONE BAN HIM] 14:34:00 <planetmaker> ah, then it was cargoID :) 14:34:14 <planetmaker> at least that thing for action0, properties 28,29 and 1D 14:34:15 <petern> cargoid is cargo type 14:34:18 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc288.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 14:34:25 <petern> cargo class is a word 14:34:34 <svip> A word? 14:34:37 <petern> yes 14:34:38 <svip> A word does not contain spaces. 14:34:49 <svip> English is a cheating language. 14:34:59 <petern> harr harr 14:35:03 <svip> The only reason it has so many "words", is because anything apparently can be a word. 14:35:21 <planetmaker> yes cargo classes was it. ty 14:35:32 <SpComb> how many bytes in a word? 14:35:39 <planetmaker> 4 14:35:43 <petern> 2 14:35:45 <svip> So I read that the one millionth English word is "Web 2.0". 14:35:46 <SpComb> 8 14:35:47 <planetmaker> uh? 14:35:53 <svip> What? That is not a word! That's a term! 14:36:06 <planetmaker> darn. wrong again. 2, of course ;) 14:36:07 <svip> Since when was word and term synonymous!? 14:36:58 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 14:37:04 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad683d4.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 14:37:08 <SpComb> but in an x86 context, presumeably 2 14:37:35 <petern> well yes, i was taught that a byte is 8 bits and a word is ... whatever 'bit size' the system is 14:38:02 <petern> but the advent of x86 seems to have changed that to 16 bits to a word, 32 bits to a dword... 14:43:24 <Belugas> svip : Web 2.0 is a word (web) associated with a space and a number. it's therefor for a word 14:50:00 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... they canceled primeval... 14:52:40 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad683d4.bb.sky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 14:54:13 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@94.80-202-138.nextgentel.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:56:03 *** theholyduck [~holyduck@94.80-202-138.nextgentel.com] has joined #openttd 14:58:39 <Eddi|zuHause> hm... thunderstorm outside... 14:59:16 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 14:59:53 <svip> Belugas: I am not buying that argument. 14:59:59 <svip> It's a term. 15:00:50 *** Prof_Frink [~proffrink@5ad76678.bb.sky.com] has joined #openttd 15:06:14 <Belugas> mmh... 15:06:18 <Belugas> neither am i 15:07:31 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: anyone ever told you to not be drinking before noon? 15:08:01 *** Yexo [~Yexo@32-88-ftth.onsneteindhoven.nl] has joined #openttd 15:08:31 <frosch123> residual alcohol from yesterday? 15:09:03 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 15:10:55 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 15:14:05 <Belugas> hic 15:14:07 <Belugas> hein? 15:14:46 <Eddi|zuHause> i never figured out what "hein" actually meant... 15:15:33 <Belugas> would be like.. "What?" 15:15:33 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:15:46 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 15:16:13 <Rubidium> but but... a whole conversation can be 'a word' 15:17:00 <frosch123> hypothesis: while belugas is drunken, he produces less typos 15:17:14 <Eddi|zuHause> like welsh people can put the whole history of the town into its name? 15:17:43 <Rubidium> "I want to have a word with you" 15:19:45 <Belugas> 'm not drunk! 15:19:50 <Belugas> I work!!! 15:25:26 <Rubidium> no, you talk on IRC! 15:32:18 <Belugas> me? i though i was writing :P 15:32:41 <Belugas> you mean you do speach recognition?? 15:33:50 *** Chruker [~no@port113.ds1-vj.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 15:34:58 <Rubidium> Belugas: my dictionary says talk means (amongst others) "to convey information or communicate in any way" 15:35:31 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #openttd 15:37:02 <Belugas> right... 15:37:27 * Belugas stops "talking" 15:37:42 <petern> start playing 15:40:07 *** thingwath [~thingwath@wired-78.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Quit: It's all over.] 15:48:14 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E9EE.versanet.de] has joined #openttd 15:50:12 *** _ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has joined #openttd 16:02:04 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.254.3] has joined #openttd 16:03:28 <Phazorx> is it possible to get exact count of paths leading between 2 pathfinder nodes (2 stations for example) 16:03:48 <Phazorx> or in current PF searches arent exhaustive? 16:04:40 <Rubidium> assuming vehicles can get from station 1 to station 2 and back the exact number of paths is infinite 16:05:25 <Rubidium> even so, the pathfinders search for the shortest path, not for all paths 16:05:31 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 16:06:47 <Phazorx> why infinite? 16:06:53 <Phazorx> let's say rails 16:07:10 <Phazorx> if there is single one way line between 2 points - there is only one path 16:07:53 <Rubidium> Phazorx: a->b is one path, a->b->a->b is another path, repeat... 16:07:54 <Phazorx> if that lane splits somewhere and heads to different platforms of same destination station - there are 2 ways 16:09:01 <Phazorx> hmm... let's start with this then - curent pathfinders operate based on final paths? 16:09:19 <Rubidium> what is final? 16:09:36 <Phazorx> a way to get to destination, step by step whole way 16:09:49 <Phazorx> rather than get moving towards destination and calculate rest as getting closer 16:09:54 <Rubidium> some do and some don't 16:10:01 <Phazorx> let's say yapf? 16:10:27 <Yexo> Phazorx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A* <- a good reading 16:10:46 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:10:50 <Phazorx> i'm familiar on subject of what a* is 16:11:12 <Rubidium> yapf and npf are a* 16:11:27 <Rubidium> the rest is not a* 16:11:36 <Phazorx> so final paths ate determined then for yapf and npf 16:11:48 <Phazorx> in that case: if a->b is final path what is a->b->a->b then? 16:12:05 <Yexo> one of the infinite alternative paths 16:12:16 <Rubidium> another possible path, which is NOT the shortest path 16:12:25 <Phazorx> but if destination reached as part of alternative path is there a point? 16:12:32 <Phazorx> ahh.. i see 16:13:21 <Rubidium> if you would know A* you would know that it will never find looped paths 16:13:41 <Phazorx> that was your example 16:13:45 <Rubidium> and that A* does not find all possible paths (because it ignores loops) 16:14:39 <Phazorx> why i asked - is there a way to determine if thre is one or more than one ways to get to destination without reusing same tracks 16:14:40 <Rubidium> Phazorx: you were asking for the exact number of paths, A* only gives an estimate; "none" or "at least one" 16:15:06 <Phazorx> a* gives weighted list i presume 16:15:22 *** andythenorth [~andy@78-86-194-127.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 16:15:26 <Rubidium> a* returns ONLY 1 (or 0) paths 16:15:41 <Phazorx> i meant implementation within openttd 16:15:49 <Phazorx> but you are right i have no idea how it actualy works 16:15:50 <Rubidium> and if you presume things about A* then you don't know A* 16:16:54 <Phazorx> my assumptions was - if it makes decision based on A* and multiple possible routes it has to produce wighted crietria for eachw ay to be able to make that decision 16:16:59 <Rubidium> if you want to know all paths (that do not loop), you'll have to use a simple depth first search 16:17:30 <Yexo> Phazorx: and that assumptionj doesn't hold 16:17:38 <Phazorx> well for my purposes what i want to know if there is zero, one or more 16:17:42 <Yexo> you don't need to know all paths to know that one is best 16:17:43 <Phazorx> Yexo: explain plz 16:17:54 <Phazorx> Yexo: actualy you kinda do 16:18:02 <Phazorx> otherwise you can only know relative weights 16:18:03 <Rubidium> A* doesn't tell whether there is more than one 16:18:08 <Phazorx> like that one is better than the other one 16:18:21 <Rubidium> but it sounds like you have no idea how A* works 16:18:35 <Phazorx> Rubidium: that i already got, but aside of A*, that question in generla context of openttd rail networks 16:18:48 <Yexo> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*#Why_A.2A_is_admissible_and_computationally_optimal that explains why you don't need to know all paths 16:20:02 <Rubidium> A* always finds only one shortest (one with least weight) path. If there are more with the same weight it will still only find the first it encounters. 16:25:30 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE822a.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 16:36:14 *** Splex [~splex@c-24-245-55-70.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 16:37:31 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:54 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 16:39:37 <Phazorx> well unfortunatelly it doesnt really answer my question on wether or not it is possible to find all the paths (all unique paths with at least one different node from any other path, while not including paths that consist of already known path + C) 16:39:58 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 16:40:05 <Rubidium> it is possible, but not with the code in OpenTTD 16:40:27 <frosch123> your problem is ill-formed, or do you consider starting from the same station as two different nodes? 16:42:59 <frosch123> if you can resolve that "ill-formedness", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmonds-Karp_algorithm might help you 16:44:28 *** thingwath [~thingwath@morana.sks2.muni.cz] has joined #openttd 16:44:40 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has joined #openttd 16:45:18 <Phazorx> strating from same station as 2 differnt nodes? 16:46:18 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i guess i'm interested in plain topology rather than weighted paths, like base graph structure of junctions between A and B 16:46:22 <frosch123> and the track right in front of the station? or do you want to use bidirectional stations only? 16:46:40 <Phazorx> frosch123: i really dont get you 16:47:01 <Phazorx> what i ask is slightly abstracted from tracks/station layer 16:47:33 <Rubidium> what you ask isn't calculated in OpenTTD. 16:47:35 *** Spoons [faux@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk] has joined #openttd 16:48:01 <Phazorx> Rubidium: not even as a part of yapf/npf? 16:48:02 <Rubidium> you can write code so OpenTTD calculates it, but that is up to you to do. 16:48:08 <Rubidium> Phazorx: no 16:48:35 <Rubidium> YAPF/NPF are ONLY interested in the shortest path 16:48:52 <Rubidium> not in whether there is another path that is longer 16:48:53 <frosch123> Phazorx: maybe you want to compute a block-articulation tree of your network, but that is again something far from a* 16:50:00 <Phazorx> Rubidium: what is used as comparition criteria for "bad nodes" ? 16:50:16 <Phazorx> i mean h() function (if i recall a*) 16:50:45 <Phazorx> frosch123: close to but even simplier than that 16:50:56 <Rubidium> h() is just manhattan distance times some constant 16:52:31 <frosch123> hmm, I fail to find the good translation for "block", wiki knows about articulations and bridges, but then it describes them as 2-connected-subgraphs :/ 16:52:33 <Rubidium> the cost is made up of signals (incl. their state), and stations etc. 16:53:05 <Rubidium> basically all the pathfinder penalties you can find in openttd.cfg 16:53:21 <Phazorx> Rubidium: yeah, i seen config many times as well as tweaked it for diff needs 16:53:43 *** Splex [~splex@c-24-245-55-70.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:53:48 <frosch123> oh, found it, "block" is also valid for the English term :) 16:54:06 <Phazorx> frosch123: wiki plz? 16:54:43 <Phazorx> Rubidium: basicaly i want to be able to determine such things as "jon before split" in a given network structure 16:54:46 <frosch123> I got those terms only from the graph theory summary page 16:54:57 <Phazorx> having more than one path \ join ebfore split = bad design 16:55:17 <Phazorx> frosch123: ahh, that i have open somewhere then, thanks 16:56:24 <frosch123> there is also some google book if you search for block-articulation-tree 16:57:38 <Rubidium> Phazorx: such an algorithm will complain about ALL station exits because they do join before split (at the next station entrance) 16:58:20 <Phazorx> Rubidium: "given network structure" will include only RR network nodes 16:58:33 <Phazorx> such as these that coopers do 16:58:46 <Rubidium> RR? 16:58:51 <Phazorx> railroad 16:59:08 <Rubidium> and what are railroad network nodes? 16:59:14 <Phazorx> netowk hubs 16:59:50 <Phazorx> i should probably start with concept itself 16:59:58 <Phazorx> but it is quite raw at this stage 17:00:07 <Rubidium> so from massive 4 ways 4 track hub to another 4 ways 4 track hub etc? 17:00:30 <Phazorx> not exactly, a hub has inputs and outputs 17:00:59 <Phazorx> 4 ways 4 track hubs you mentioned in logic sense has 4 directions with 2 track wide lines both ways 17:01:37 <fonsinchen> actually you want to find circles and parallel paths. 17:01:45 <fonsinchen> You only need DFS for that. 17:01:49 <Phazorx> so 2 track wide input and 2 track wide output in evey direction 17:02:19 <Rubidium> and assume that every input track can go to every output track? 17:02:30 <Phazorx> that would be proper BBH 17:02:33 <Phazorx> back bone hub 17:02:52 <Rubidium> then you first need to teach OpenTTD about the concepts of when something is a hub and when it isn't 17:03:03 <Rubidium> which won't be easy (if possible at all) 17:03:16 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i'm trying to avoid that 17:03:27 <Rubidium> but it sounds like you need to do lots of research in the area of graph theory before you can actually solve this puzzle 17:03:31 <Phazorx> by defining "gates" which can be seen as a something similar to a station 17:03:43 <Phazorx> like mention hub would have 4 gates (each direction) 17:03:48 <fonsinchen> OK, you also want to find out about connectedness. But that is also easy with a search algorithm. 17:03:54 <Phazorx> each gate in this case would be 2 tracks in and 2 tracks out 17:04:26 <Rubidium> Phazorx: at OpenTTD level it only knows about single tile junctions; it doesn't know that two parallel tracks are meant to a single 'trunk line' 17:05:49 <Phazorx> Rubidium: i know that but it can see each input individualy and if it is given information which outputs it should connect (by defning some gate properties) based on ability to path to these outputs it would be able to determine if the netwoprk element is working 17:06:40 <Phazorx> i'm trying to abstract from network design to lego pieces that are necessary for determining some criterias that would let the engine determine how close given elements are to what they are intended to be 17:07:33 <Phazorx> like gates i mentioned are essentialy very similar to stations, being able to path from stations platforms to some other platforms is a basic function that ottd does quite well 17:07:53 <Phazorx> what i asked before - is a way to determine if there are no ugly design feats such as join before split 17:08:08 <Phazorx> wich would be represented by more than one path from some input to some output 17:08:21 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host212-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd 17:08:29 <Phazorx> what i gathered so far it is not directly possible to do at the moment 17:08:30 <Wolf01> hello 17:08:45 <Phazorx> which is an answer to my question 17:08:46 <frosch123> then edmonds and karp suits your needs :) 17:08:58 <Phazorx> frosch123: some part of it - yes 17:09:13 <frosch123> which part is missing? 17:09:36 <fonsinchen> Edmonds-Karp doesn't find circles. 17:09:55 <frosch123> fonsinchen: is he searching for them? 17:10:11 <fonsinchen> Yes, he wants to find join before merge. 17:10:20 <fonsinchen> Which is essentially a circle. 17:10:48 <Phazorx> frosch123: there are some ugly fixtures that are used by coopers such as "priority windows" that would be seen as multiple ways even tho trains will not be able to enter them 17:11:20 <Phazorx> fonsinchen: not exactly, but there can be these things that you name as circles as well 17:11:58 <frosch123> so fonsinchen wants to search for the shortest circle 17:12:43 <frosch123> there is also some default path algorithm that can find such 17:12:57 <frosch123> not sure which of them :/ 17:13:12 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:13:57 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: * rr16582 /: 17:14:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: translators * r16582 /trunk/src/lang/ (estonian.txt russian.txt): 17:14:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2009-06-16 17:10:36 17:14:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: estonian - 3 fixed, 47 changed by lible (50) 17:14:00 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: russian - 31 fixed, 225 changed by Lone Wolf (256) 17:16:49 <frosch123> Floyd-Warshall might do 17:17:35 <Phazorx> E-K i a more complex case since it deails with additional characteristics 17:18:32 <Phazorx> aswell as F-W 17:19:10 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 17:19:18 <Phazorx> in case of determining if there is more than one path - there is no weight per say 17:19:35 <Phazorx> basicaly i just need a graph tree with all cells = constant, and conunt branches 17:19:51 <Phazorx> does not even need to count them if already found more than one 17:20:07 <frosch123> if you give each edge capacity one, the maximum flow will tell you the number of disjointed paths 17:20:28 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:21:25 <frosch123> however, note that E-K does not deal with "short" paths in any way 17:21:39 <Phazorx> dont really care about length 17:22:29 <Phazorx> however it would be ncie to make it operate on same basis as pathfinder so it will not run into situation as deeming something differently passable from what trains pathing thinks 17:22:38 <fonsinchen> Edmonds-Karp doesn't explicitly search for the number of paths either. It searches for their overall capacity. You could modify it, but I guess that DFS would be enough. 17:23:00 <Phazorx> looking in BFS at 17:23:05 <frosch123> fonsinchen: edmonds-karp is basically DFS 17:23:39 <frosch123> and you can stop E-K when you reached a flow of two (which is after two DFS) 17:24:06 * Phazorx trying to remember what algo he used when coding mineswapper clone 17 years ago 17:24:55 <fonsinchen> Phazorx: DFS is better for finding circles. 17:25:07 <fonsinchen> and for finding parallel paths. 17:26:00 * frosch123 would not even know how to do that with bfs 17:26:15 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 17:26:45 <fonsinchen> me neither 17:28:19 <Phazorx> i need to determine 2 things, 1) is there a path from source to destiantion 2) is there more than one path 17:28:51 <Phazorx> bfs travers the tree in a very simple way and if it returns a tree - 1 is fulfilled 17:29:40 <Phazorx> if it returns a tree with more than 1 "branch" that is positive answer for 2 17:29:44 <Phazorx> i could be wrong tho :) 17:30:22 <frosch123> yes, as that is not bfs, you never visit a node twice 17:32:06 <fonsinchen> Phazorx: 1, can be done with BFS and DFS - it doesn't matter. 2, can be done with DFS and I woudn't know how to do it with BFS. A 3, find join before split (AKA circle) can also be done with DFS and I wouldn't know how to do it with BFS. 17:32:15 <frosch123> and if you keep the duplicates you get a quite expensive n^2 algorithm 17:33:04 <frosch123> (though the duplicates do not solve your problem either) 17:33:36 <Phazorx> fonsinchen: isnt 2 and 3 are same? 17:34:16 <fonsinchen> no, the paths are directed 17:35:11 <fonsinchen> you may have two stretches of rail joining up at two places without a train being able to go in circles 17:35:53 <Phazorx> err... you mean openttd engine limitations? 17:36:09 <Phazorx> as in sharp turns or soemthing like that? 17:36:14 <fonsinchen> No, nature of rails 17:37:01 <fonsinchen> Track splits in two and joins up again 5 km later. No train can go in circles 17:37:04 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has joined #openttd 17:37:26 <fonsinchen> This doesn't constitute a merge before split situation. 17:37:50 <Phazorx> in context of single network structure it does 17:37:55 <Phazorx> at least by my rules 17:38:31 <fonsinchen> That's a strange definition. I meant that without any junctions in between, just like that: 17:38:47 <fonsinchen> ____________________ 17:38:47 <fonsinchen> \_____________/ 17:39:19 <Phazorx> ahh... sorry i didnt see it as single track spliting and merging later with itself 17:39:22 <Phazorx> my bad 17:39:42 <Phazorx> that is perfectly valid and should not be raising any alarms 17:39:52 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 17:40:10 <fonsinchen> It does constitute a parallel paths situation and you might be interested in that in certain cases. But a circle is worse most times. 17:40:38 <Phazorx> i guess my "simple" scenario fails on that 17:40:55 <Phazorx> since it is seen as multiple paths but still valid in a network flow sense 17:41:19 <fonsinchen> DFS on a directed graph can tell those situations apart. 17:41:40 <Phazorx> i'm looking at c code there atm 17:42:02 <Phazorx> or python as it turns out 17:42:12 <fonsinchen> I had exactly the same problem with cargodist. You might want to have a look at mcf.cpp and the EliminateCycles methods. 17:44:14 <Phazorx> shall do 17:45:58 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:45:58 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 18:10:28 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 18:17:20 *** worldemar [~tsukimiya@81.28.185.251] has joined #openttd 18:19:55 *** z-MaTRiX [~matrix@nude.lesbianbath.com] has joined #openttd 18:20:12 <z-MaTRiX> hey 18:41:21 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:32 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has joined #openttd 18:50:57 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-86-31-55-189.nrth.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 18:54:32 *** maristo [~maristo@host217-114-156-151.pppoe.mark-itt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:56 *** orava1 [~rain@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd 18:58:27 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 18:58:38 *** orava1 [~rain@a88-114-52-67.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has left #openttd [] 18:58:45 <Nite_Owl> Hello all 19:01:52 *** blueleader [~blueleade@radio1.infos.cz] has joined #openttd 19:01:52 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:00 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 19:02:25 <blueleader> Rubidium: Thanks for you advice...tycoon is funcion:) 19:09:50 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514d1d2e.l3.c1.dsl.pol.co.uk] has joined #openttd 19:10:07 *** blueleader [~blueleade@radio1.infos.cz] has left #openttd [] 19:10:36 <Xaroth> wait, Rubidium gives advise? 19:14:48 <dihedral> i have the distinct feeling SX aint gonna reply no more :-( 19:14:54 <dihedral> man - i was so waiting for that :-P 19:16:05 <Yexo> who is SX? 19:16:22 <Rubidium> sirxavius? 19:16:27 <Yexo> ah 19:17:26 * Yexo finally got a (very simple) station newgrf working :) 19:18:07 <Nite_Owl> Given time I am sure he will return in one form or another 19:19:00 *** Benny [~chatzilla@40.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net] has joined #openttd 19:21:13 <Belugas> dihedral, Xavisu is never around during the week 19:21:42 <Belugas> like me, but i'm vanishing on weekends... 19:22:00 <frosch123> is that healthy for you? 19:22:37 <Rubidium> what is healthy nowadays?? 19:25:09 *** TinoM [~Tino@i59F5E9EE.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 19:25:37 <Belugas> beer 19:26:40 <Eoin> cider and beer 19:26:40 <Rubidium> hmm, throwing up is healthy? 19:27:29 * frosch123 decides for coffee 19:27:57 <dihedral> mr. kippling apple pies 19:27:59 <Yexo> is there any way to disable a newgrf station for some rail types? ie only enable it for normal rail, but not for electric/monorail/maglev? 19:28:09 <Markk> Rubidium: not for your teeth 19:28:22 <Rubidium> Yexo: no 19:29:10 <Rubidium> some NewGRF 'god' might suggest using the 'get current railtype' 'feature', but that doesn't exist in OpenTTD (it's desyncish) 19:30:02 <Yexo> ok, thanks 19:30:03 <DaleStan> Even if only enabled for CB 13? 19:31:10 <dihedral> lol - "now with windws 7 home networking is even easier. you can quickly share those documents, picture, ...." spread viruses, grab a copy of what everybody has, ......... 19:32:02 <dihedral> http://www.microsoft.com/germany/windows/windows-7/videos.aspx <- @1.06 - the guy has a different laptop :-P 19:32:49 <frosch123> you remind me about some old zip disk advertisment, which told me they could be used to store music, pictures, texts and even more... 19:33:01 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-208-8.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:34:38 <dihedral> what a load of bollox 19:34:49 * frosch123 things it is healthy to not watch that video, as ff was already annoying enough today 19:34:50 <Rubidium> DaleStan: there are ways to make it work for OpenTTD, only nobody has bothered implementing that 19:35:10 <dihedral> frosch123: go watch it :-) 19:35:14 <dihedral> it's kinda amusing 19:35:30 <dihedral> they have an "i'm a pc" postit on the laptops :-D 19:35:52 <Rubidium> even then, you can't distinguish between monorail/maglev; for TTDP compatability they would need to be mapped to 2 19:36:42 <Rubidium> FS#2901 for anyone who's interested 19:36:53 <Rubidium> uhm.. FS#2091 19:36:57 <frosch123> dihedral: apple is not any better than ms 19:37:46 <frosch123> rephrase: the customers apply focuses on are not any better than those ms focuses on 19:38:33 <dihedral> customers = users ? 19:38:38 <dihedral> at least in most cases 19:40:20 <dihedral> and even if they are developers.... 19:40:42 <dihedral> i have been let down by developers during the last few days - i really thought they had some more senses 19:40:43 <dihedral> but NO 19:40:50 <dihedral> they cannot cope with a change from cvs to svn 19:40:55 <dihedral> my word 19:41:04 <dihedral> a load of poor sods 19:42:08 <frosch123> you are lucky that it was not sccs :) 19:44:48 <frosch123> gnu cssc sounds interesting :o 19:50:55 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 19:56:23 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> How does one go about designating which sprites show in the orientation pictures in the station purchase window? 19:57:30 <Yexo> specify them via action 0 prop 09 19:58:30 <frosch123> action3 cargotype 0xFF 19:58:41 <frosch123> (holds for both vehicles and stations) 19:58:49 <Chicago_Rail_Authority> thx 20:01:10 <frosch123> hmm, no foobar here 20:04:22 *** [com]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:22 *** [alt]buster [~Combuster@82-171-220-59.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd 20:04:26 *** [alt]buster is now known as [com]buster 20:06:27 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has quit [Quit: I have your children] 20:06:55 <Wolf01> 'night 20:06:58 *** Wolf01 [~wolf01@host212-159-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.] 20:06:59 <_ln> night wo 20:09:17 <Hirundo> frosch123: foobar is in the #openttdcoop.devzone channel, you need to speak to him? 20:10:54 <frosch123> I'm just fixing his edits :p 20:14:07 <dihedral> #openttdcoop.devzone? hehe - and i bet Ammler is there with a bunch of stuff he can say :-D 20:14:13 * dihedral hides :-P 20:15:56 *** De_Ghosty [~s@69-196-139-252.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #openttd 20:20:13 *** Ammler [~ammler@ammler.ch] has left #openttd [Konversation terminated!] 20:24:24 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-53-197.cable.quicknet.nl] has joined #openttd 20:27:20 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd 20:30:03 *** Xyzzy [~Albert@dsl-246-221-224.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #openttd [] 20:36:39 <Phazorx> dihedral: care to join that chan uself? 20:37:43 <dihedral> no way ;-) 20:37:54 <Phazorx> i got something to show 20:37:56 <Phazorx> big and ugly 20:38:13 <dihedral> well, then i am here 20:38:29 <Phazorx> there isnt a point of passing A51 link here :) 20:39:11 <_ln> Phazorx: http://www.apostrophe.org.uk/ 20:39:56 *** Benny [~chatzilla@40.81-166-86.customer.lyse.net] has left #openttd [] 20:39:59 <dihedral> ln i dont think anybody really cares that much 20:40:18 <dihedral> only you get a buzz out of annoying others with that stuff, dont you think? 20:40:27 <Belugas> #i don't care anymore! 20:40:30 <Belugas> no more 20:40:31 <Belugas> no more 20:40:32 <dihedral> Phazorx: and there is stuff like /msg ^^ 20:41:13 <Phazorx> you behave like a stubborn russian :) 20:41:29 <_ln> dihedral: i don't think i'm the only one on this channel who has expressed caring about correct spelling. 20:44:12 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has joined #openttd 20:46:57 <Belugas> _ln, how come you've even missed that one ? "[16:41] <Phazorx> i got something to show" <--- I've got! 20:47:05 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc288.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:48 *** lobster [~michielbi@86.89.201.189] has joined #openttd 20:48:41 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-189-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd 20:48:42 <_ln> Belugas: you guys pay me too little to get a 24/7 spell checking service. 20:49:11 <Belugas> come on... you have the same amount on your pay check as on ours... 20:50:09 <Rubidium> yeah, and all that goes to the government as tax! 20:53:57 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Quit: ecke] 20:54:15 *** `Eoin [Eoin@92-233-181-104.cable.ubr08.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 20:55:24 <dihedral> ln: i do think youre at least one of the only ones to care enough to make a fuss 20:55:34 <dihedral> oh - nobody else actually complains as badly as you do 20:55:44 <dihedral> nobody else complaines 20:55:55 *** Eoin [Eoin@92-233-176-246.cable.ubr08.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:56:06 <dihedral> unless youre getting abbreviations such as ppl, thx, etc. 20:56:12 <Belugas> whos' complaines? 20:56:21 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 20:56:22 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [] 21:03:46 *** Phazorx [~pavelkoll@77.239.254.3] has left #openttd [] 21:05:06 <Belugas> tick tock time to go 21:05:09 <Belugas> night night 21:06:10 <Nite_Owl> later Belugas 21:07:12 <Rubidium> night Belugas 21:07:53 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:08:59 <dihedral> same here 21:12:01 *** Chicago_Rail_Authority [user@c-76-100-52-121.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 21:20:15 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:22:47 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has joined #openttd 21:27:58 *** Eoin [Eoin@92-233-181-104.cable.ubr08.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd 21:31:55 *** _ln [~lanurmi@dyn-xdsl-83-150-113-243.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:34:32 *** `Eoin [Eoin@92-233-181-104.cable.ubr08.dund.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:43:30 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:51:02 *** SHRIKEE [~shrikee@84-105-53-197.cable.quicknet.nl] has quit [Quit: SHRIKEE] 21:51:07 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@12.161.178.130] has joined #openttd 21:56:42 *** dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable160.111-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #openttd 21:57:08 <dragonhorseboy> was just talking with someone about a price to pay later and it struck me that there was one thing sorely missing for any multiplayer users.... 21:57:17 <dragonhorseboy> where's a ottd currency conversion chart? :) 21:57:39 <dragonhorseboy> I was playing in Yen and other player is using Pounds .. figured 21:58:36 <Xaroth> isn't it pounds == 0.5, and yen == 1000 ? 21:58:41 <Xaroth> whereas euro/dollar == 1 21:58:48 <Xaroth> something like that 21:58:54 <dragonhorseboy> xaroth..and what about the other currencies too? (especially Francs which is offically dead now) 21:59:03 * Xaroth shrugs 21:59:07 <Yexo> pound = 1 21:59:18 <Xaroth> then euro = 2? 21:59:21 <Yexo> yes 21:59:23 <Rubidium> for the rest, see currency.cpp ;) 21:59:29 <Yexo> http://wiki.openttd.org/Currency 21:59:44 <Xaroth> ah 22:00:35 <z-MaTRiX> h! 22:00:41 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:43 <dragonhorseboy> ah thanks a lot 22:00:59 <z-MaTRiX> yeah currency is an interesting thing 22:01:24 <z-MaTRiX> can barely remember the original changes 22:03:34 *** Nebri [~ryan@dhcp-0-c-6e-26-56-3.cpe.quickclic.net] has joined #openttd 22:04:36 <Nebri> hey guys, I just downloaded openttd, first time I've ever played transport tycoon so I'm loving it. however running at 1680x1050 and the interface is painfully small there (menu bars etc) is there anyway to enlarge it? 22:04:50 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 22:04:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16583 /trunk/src/lang/ (22 files in 2 dirs): 22:04:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: -Update: the order of the language files so it's in sync with english.txt. 22:04:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: Normally WT2 would do this, but only with activity for those languages. Now we'd 22:04:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: like to the order to match so we can more easily spot import bugs while 22:04:50 <CIA-6> OpenTTD: developing WT3. 22:04:56 <z-MaTRiX> hmm 22:04:56 <Rubidium> Nebri: not at the moment 22:04:59 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAE822a.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:48 <Nebri> alright, I'll just lower the resolution then to make them appear large for now :( 22:05:48 <z-MaTRiX> good question, well doubling size is the easiest solution 22:06:03 <Nebri> doubling size? 22:06:10 <z-MaTRiX> (in the code) 22:07:01 <z-MaTRiX> i was meaning "doubling icon sizes in menus" 22:07:13 <Nebri> oh so isnt like an option currently implemented 22:07:20 <z-MaTRiX> no 22:07:28 <Nebri> thats a shame :( 22:07:39 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has joined #openttd 22:09:04 <petern> eek 22:09:12 <petern> spider walking up my wall 22:09:22 <Rubidium> z-MaTRiX: if it's the easiest solution, why haven't you coded it? 22:09:28 <z-MaTRiX> killall spider? 22:09:54 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.161.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:56 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.113.148.12] has quit [] 22:10:21 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.160.68] has joined #openttd 22:12:25 <z-MaTRiX> actually i don't think its a big problem, everything gets smaller at higher resolutions 22:13:00 <z-MaTRiX> Nebri<< how about the signals? 22:14:16 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1FD93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:24 *** UFO64 [~jmurray@12.161.178.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:35 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:19:51 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:44 <Nebri> sorry about that 22:23:47 <Nebri> stepped away from comp 22:23:50 <Nebri> signals? 22:24:18 <Nebri> I've just downloaded the game and I'm playing around with it for the very first time. still lots to learn :) 22:24:38 <Eddi|zuHause> <z-MaTRiX> killall spider? <-- don't, spiders are friends 22:33:04 <z-MaTRiX> [000904] petern eek 22:33:04 <z-MaTRiX> [000912] petern spider walking up my wall 22:33:32 *** dragonhorseboy [~dragonhor@modemcable160.111-57-74.mc.videotron.ca] has left #openttd [] 22:33:51 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [Quit: Bitches.] 22:33:58 <z-MaTRiX> just wanted to say something 22:34:55 *** Nebri [~ryan@dhcp-0-c-6e-26-56-3.cpe.quickclic.net] has left #openttd [] 22:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> i did read the backlog. 22:38:29 <Eddi|zuHause> you don't have to repeat it. 22:40:25 <Muddy> petern: this kind of spider? http://xmb.stuffucanuse.com/xmb/viewthread.php?action=attachment&tid=4827&pid=14586 22:40:56 <petern> fuuuuuuuuuuu 22:41:18 <petern> actually we did have a load of baby spiders 22:41:19 <petern> but 22:41:23 <petern> outside 22:41:27 <petern> where they belong 22:55:58 <glx> that's a monster not a spider 22:58:39 *** Frostregen [~sucks@dslb-084-058-189-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: und weg] 23:01:15 <z-MaTRiX> petern<< is it a deadly spider? 23:12:11 *** kkb110 [~kkb110@c-68-82-181-52.hsd1.de.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 23:12:35 <kkb110> I thought openTTD isn't object oriented at all but 23:13:16 <kkb110> I've just found that Tree_gui has a class :D 23:15:02 <z-MaTRiX> hey kkb 23:15:06 <kkb110> hi 23:15:07 <z-MaTRiX> forexample 23:15:10 <kkb110> :) 23:15:10 <z-MaTRiX> what's up? 23:15:13 <kkb110> good 23:15:27 <kkb110> have you tried Ex's city server? 23:15:41 <z-MaTRiX> not yet, too much work ;< 23:15:47 <kkb110> I see... 23:16:01 <kkb110> it's another interesting server 23:16:25 <kkb110> the goal is to grow a city.. you should specify /claim 'town name' at the beginning 23:16:53 <kkb110> and who gets 10000 first is the winner 23:16:59 <chaos95> only 10000? 23:17:05 <kkb110> yes 10000 23:17:23 <z-MaTRiX> nice population 23:17:29 <kkb110> but it's desert and all the cities are less than 200 at the beginning 23:17:38 <z-MaTRiX> :) 23:17:45 <z-MaTRiX> sounds interesting 23:18:03 <kkb110> it's becoming very popular... I've seen 16 people were there 23:18:13 <z-MaTRiX> yeah that's something new 23:19:32 <z-MaTRiX> were you there when i built a maglev line from a city to HQ-s at mountain? ;>> 23:20:00 <kkb110> I guess I wasn't there :D 23:20:27 <z-MaTRiX> was making money, and 99-100% rating, mail and passengers 23:20:58 <kkb110> lol 23:21:38 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B80FF0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:24:15 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83F3F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:24:18 *** mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ 23:31:03 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:25 *** Eddi|zuHause2 [~johekr@p54B77D4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:35:40 *** CIA-6 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has quit [] 23:40:25 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B753D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:52:24 *** CIA-1 [~CIA@208.69.182.149] has joined #openttd 23:54:45 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-208-8.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:46 *** Dred_furst [~Dred@user-514d1d2e.l3.c1.dsl.pol.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]