Log for #openttd on 18th July 2009:
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01:32:17  <Akoz> anyone alive? could someone please confirm that this patch is working: ... it works fine for me, but maybe I've got some special settings other people don't? :\
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07:36:06  <Alberth> good morning
07:36:45  <Yrol> hello alberth
07:37:04  <Alberth> hello Yrol
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08:32:40  <Lazesharp> hey guys, having trouble getting a linux server working
08:33:20  <Lazesharp> i have to start it on a different port (due to some weird upstream firewall restriction) and when I connect via the console it gets about 60% through downloading the map before disconnecting - no debug message saying why in the server
08:33:32  <Lazesharp> how do I turn on debug messages in the Windows client?
08:34:11  <frosch123> -d [section] level
08:34:24  <Lazesharp> can't turn it on once in game?
08:35:06  <Rubidium> debug_level in the in-game console
08:35:18  <Lazesharp> I tried that, didn't seem to give me anything
08:35:30  <Lazesharp> ok, turns out -d 10 makes the game un-loadable :P
08:42:21  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16868 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: unify UpdateAll[Station|Waypoint]VirtCoords
08:42:24  <Lazesharp> hmm, problem seems to be when the server saves the game as the client connects...
08:42:26  <Lazesharp> dbg: [misc] [Pool] (Savegame) cleaning pool..
08:42:26  <Lazesharp> dbg: [net] Closed client connection 4
08:42:26  <Lazesharp> *** Player has left the game (connection lost)
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08:47:10  <Rubidium> that's unlikely
08:47:27  <Rubidium> primarily because it always has to save the game before a client joins as it has to send the game state to the client
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08:47:48  <fjb> Hello
08:47:57  <Alberth> hello fjb
08:48:06  <frosch123> moin
08:48:09  <Yrol> hello fjb
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09:07:34  <Lazesharp> Rubidium: ok, any ideas on how I can better debug the problem?
09:09:17  <Rubidium> Lazesharp: no, though it sounds like unstable network connection
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09:23:09  <Yexo> good morning
09:23:13  <yorick> Yexo O+
09:23:16  <yorick> :)
09:23:19  <yorick> moin
09:23:21  <Yexo> hello yorick :)
09:23:33  <frosch123> morning yexo
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09:26:50  <Alberth> good morning yexo
09:27:01  <Yexo> hi frosch123, Alberth ;)
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09:41:36  <yorick> Alberth: is there any documentation on nested widgets?
09:42:34  <Alberth> there is a PDF describing the general idea in a thread of mine, and in FS#1905. Also, there are two pieces of documentation in doxygen
09:42:54  <yorick> ok :)
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09:43:41  <Alberth> Click 'modules' at the left in the doxygen html doc
09:44:55  <DJ-Burtybob> Hi all, last night I was in here with a linker error and then an error with platform SDK. I have now fixed the PSDK problem but I am left with "gfx.obj : error LNK2001: unresolved external symbol _ubidi_openSized_4_0" And I tried rebuild but it didn't work. Would I be right in thinking that this error comes from openttd useful??
09:48:30  <yorick> Alberth: "dy Vertical resize step. 0 means no horizontal resizing. "
09:48:41  <yorick> SetResize ;)
09:48:54  <Alberth> sounds wrong, doesn't it :)
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10:00:50  * Rubidium thinks DJ-Burtybob has mixed two openttd usefuls; one 2.i, i < 3 for the headers and 2.3 for the libraries
10:01:44  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16869 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: make drawing waypoints a tiny bit more like drawing stations
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10:09:39  <yorick> Alberth: could you help me with <-- I want both widgets in the second NWID_HORIZONTAL to resize, but only the first one does
10:11:50  <Alberth> you are converting the NWidget to an old-style widget array?
10:12:15  <Alberth> or do you use the Nwidget tree itself?
10:12:38  <yorick> I'm using the nwidget tree itself
10:12:51  <yorick> need to get the new-newgrf gui to use nested widgets
10:13:06  <Alberth> ok, then what you want is at least supported :)
10:13:35  <Alberth> you mean line 6?
10:14:24  <yorick> I want both widgets in the widget on line 6 to resize equally
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10:16:34  <Alberth> in principle additional resize length is evenly distributed over the members of the containers, so if the 2nd doesn't resize, it cannot do that.
10:16:56  <Alberth> to confirm, you can swap both parts. Then the 2nd should only resize.
10:17:24  * yorick tests
10:18:18  <yorick> Alberth: now the first resizes
10:18:27  <yorick> and not the second, which was previously resizing
10:18:45  <Alberth> in the window constructor you use InitNested() ?
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10:19:21  <yorick> I should? :p
10:19:38  <Alberth> if you "I'm using the nwidget tree itself", yes
10:19:48  <yorick> :-(
10:20:27  <Alberth> otherwise you are converting to old-style widget arrays, which support only 1 widget resize.
10:20:31  <yorick> aha
10:21:12  <Alberth> if you want to have several widgets resizing there, you need to program that in OnResize
10:21:20  * Alberth searches for an example
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10:21:43  <yorick> intro_gui.cpp
10:22:00  <Lazesharp> Rubidium: network connection isn't the problem, happens at almost exactly the same point in the map download every time
10:22:39  <Rubidium> Lazesharp: then what is it? It works fine for thousands of others?
10:23:00  <Lazesharp> i get that, i'm guessing there's a problem either with my client setup or my server setup
10:23:01  <Rubidium> I am at least aware that searching for servers crashes certain DSL/Cable modems
10:23:11  <yorick> Alberth: can I still get widget positions for OnPaint then?
10:23:36  <Lazesharp> wrt the config file, i'm just using the default (with a modified port), that ok?
10:23:59  <Alberth> intro screen is a true nested widget window
10:24:08  <Rubidium> Lazesharp: yes, changing the port doesn't matter
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10:29:19  <Alberth> yorick: ResizeButtons() is used for old-style multi-widget resizing, cannot find a nice example so quickly.
10:30:16  <Alberth> yorick: assuming you are converting to old-style widget array, all the widgets are in this->widget[] after construction, so yeah, you can access/modify the coords there
10:30:33  <yorick> Alberth: I'm trying not to convert ;)
10:31:22  <Alberth> ah. ok, town-directory may also be interesting then
10:32:25  <Alberth> as for OnPaint, for custom rendering of a widget, you get a call in Window::DrawWidget with the coordinates.
10:32:51  <yorick> aha, I should move my drawing to DrawWidget
10:32:53  <yorick> :)
10:34:39  <Alberth> and do nothing else than drawing within the given rectangles :)
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10:40:04  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16870 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp waypoint.cpp): -Codechange: unmagicify road stop/waypoint picker drawing
10:41:27  * _ln is back from .nl/.be/.lu/.fr/.de/.dk/.se
10:43:15  <Alberth> next year .uk
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10:44:27  <_ln> why not
10:47:08  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16871 /trunk/src/ (intro_gui.cpp town_gui.cpp widget.cpp window_gui.h): -Codechange: Generalize GetWidgetContentSize to UpdateWidgetSize for better control over widget size and resize steps.
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10:58:31  <Smallo> heya folks
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11:05:08  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i agree.
11:05:46  <Eddi|zuHause> small-o-patience
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11:09:45  <R0b0t1> I suppose this has been answered somewhere but I couldn't find it handy, where do I get the original game files?
11:11:09  <yorick> on the internets
11:11:13  <yorick> or on your original ttd cd
11:11:37  <R0b0t1> I'm a pirate, I know no CD. Guess I'll try google. :D
11:12:20  <TrueBrain> and what made you join here before trying that yourself?
11:12:35  <Eddi|zuHause> we are legally not allowed to tell you about 3407
11:12:55  <TrueBrain> lol @ Eddi|zuHause :)
11:12:56  <R0b0t1> Argh you have got to be kidding me
11:13:07  <R0b0t1> Right after I join here I find the wiki page that links me to what I'm looking for.
11:13:22  <TrueBrain> yes, that is a joke
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11:16:37  * _ln even visited Waterloo
11:17:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Waterloo is rubbish... visit Leipzig instead...
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11:19:32  <_ln> and btw, the traffic in Brussels is a total chaos
11:19:51  <R0b0t1> Er, hm.
11:19:52  <Eddi|zuHause> is that different in any other major european city?
11:20:06  <_ln> it is..
11:21:35  <R0b0t1> Where do the ttd files go if I've installed openttd via apt-get? I tried searching more this time, all I find is some bugreports.
11:21:57  <Eddi|zuHause> something along the lines of /usr/share/games/openttd
11:21:58  <Alberth> read the do-not-readme file
11:22:07  <_ln> on most cities you don't have six cars next to each other where there are only two lanes.  and as a pedestrian you don't need to worry about getting hit by a car all the time.
11:22:17  <_ln> *in
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11:22:33  <TrueBrain> R0b0t1:
11:22:35  <Eddi|zuHause> _ln: you haven't been in paris then :p
11:22:48  <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: correct
11:23:17  <Sacro> hehe
11:23:19  <_ln> but e.g. in amsterdam mostly the bicycles were what a pedestrian should watch out for.
11:23:21  <Sacro> the arc de triumph
11:23:33  <Sacro> that has roughly 7 lanes
11:23:41  <Sacro> roughly as there are no official markings
11:24:25  <_ln> Sacro: i've heard certain car insurances cover the whole europe except for that particular place in paris.
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11:26:02  <Sacro> _ln: tends to be there and the nurburgring that get mentioned
11:26:07  <R0b0t1> TrueBrain: Thanks, now I have itrunning :)
11:26:23  <Sacro> well, that or "one way only autobahns"
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11:27:10  <_ln> btw, has anyone tried what happens when a stupid pigeon hits the car on Autobahn?
11:27:29  <Eddi|zuHause> the Avus in berlin was a racing track that is used as Autobahn... or the other way round...
11:27:37  <TrueBrain> R0b0t1: enjoy the game
11:27:51  <TrueBrain> R0b0t1: btw, if you don't want to go illegal, try the OpenGFX grf pack
11:28:08  <Sacro> TrueBrain: "illegal"
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11:28:13  <R0b0t1> Heh
11:28:16  <Sacro> it depends what country he is in to the legalities
11:28:20  <R0b0t1> I bet if you asked the guy he wouldn't mind too much.
11:28:34  <Eddi|zuHause> we tried that
11:28:37  <Eddi|zuHause> didn't work
11:28:37  <R0b0t1> Oh.
11:28:39  <Sacro> I don't think he does, but then it's not the graphics guy who can care
11:28:39  <TrueBrain> Sacro: not having an original copy of the original grfs while using them, I consider illegal for the easiness of it all :p
11:28:44  <Sacro> it might be Atari
11:28:54  <Sacro> TrueBrain: it's not illegal in a few european countries
11:28:57  <Sacro> possibly spain
11:29:02  <TrueBrain> Sacro: Netherlands
11:29:03  <TrueBrain> :p
11:29:06  <TrueBrain> (downloading is not illegal)
11:29:28  <Ammler> well, it is illegal, but in some countries, nobody cares.
11:29:30  <Sacro> so long as not for profit
11:29:40  <Sacro> Ammler: no, i think in spain non-profit is fine
11:29:44  <TrueBrain> Ammler: here it is not illegal
11:29:51  <TrueBrain> enough people care
11:29:56  <TrueBrain> but downloading is not illegal; uploading is
11:30:23  <yorick> unless it's downloading of software/films
11:30:41  <Ammler> which ttd is
11:31:02  <TrueBrain> yorick: movies and music for sure are not illegal
11:31:07  <TrueBrain> I need to check on graphics though ..
11:32:38  <TrueBrain> graphics indeed is illegal :p
11:32:47  <TrueBrain> so we will only use Spain in the above :p
11:33:07  <Ammler> I wouldn't trust Sacro in that case. ;-)
11:33:16  <_ln> it's quite impressive that one can have a new mirror installed on a Volkswagen within 30 minutes of hitting a pigeon.
11:33:25  <TrueBrain> I don't care :) It is easier to use OpenGFX and avoid it :p
11:34:05  <Ammler> well, I don't care, someone is downloading the original graphics, either, he should just be aware doing something illegal.
11:34:16  <Ammler> doing illegal stuff isn't always bad.
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11:34:43  <Ammler> but in this case, it is :-D
11:35:28  <TrueBrain> even more if you can avoid it ;)
11:36:08  <TrueBrain> but I guess there is OpenTTD itself to blame, for not giving the idea there is an alternative on most places :) I hope OpenGFX finishes 100% soon ;)
11:36:13  <TrueBrain> (including toyland :p)
11:37:02  <Ammler> well, if it is finished, the 2nd part begins, making it worth to include :-)
11:37:04  <Alberth> Ammler:  right, the people have decided something is bad (through political parties), a law was made by the government, police is enforcing the law, but it is ok to break the law? :p
11:37:24  <Ammler> Alberth: sometimes you have to
11:37:28  <Ammler> eg
11:37:37  <Ammler> e.g. driving faster than allowed :P
11:37:57  * Alberth is waiting on a finished toyland
11:38:02  <Ammler> or staying longer in pub.
11:39:13  <Ammler> well, at least, you don't hurt your eyes anymore.
11:39:39  <Ammler> also snow is much better in opengfx.
11:40:39  <Ammler> Some people don't like the "Zephyris" style. That needs time to get familiar.
11:42:55  <Ammler> python pros:
11:43:22  <Ammler> what does the install tool there, I don't have adduser on my linux box.
11:44:03  <yorick>
11:44:54  <Alberth> Ammler: indeed, snow is less white. Much better.
11:45:52  <DJ-Burtybob> hi all
11:45:54  <yorick> Ammler: it adds a user and then calls options.prefix/share/mercurial-server/init/hginit as that user
11:46:20  <Alberth>
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11:50:36  <Ammler> oh, to this is like sudo in python
11:59:03  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... it is difficult to get 5 tracks exactly the same length...
11:59:34  <Eddi|zuHause> and i am running out of straight pieces, i think...
12:03:44  <Eddi|zuHause> the theory is: for each switch you need either a slightly longer balancing piece on the branching side, or a slightly shorter balancing piece on the straight side... but i have fewer balancing pieces than switches...
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12:10:44  <Ammler> <-- he, if someone asks for a drawing tool :-)
12:10:54  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: attach a switch to a switch
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12:11:23  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: that is the problem, not the solution... i have too many switch-cascades to balance out
12:12:19  <Tekky> Hi everyone. Eddi, are you talking about load balancing of trains?
12:12:31  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: a switch has 1/1 length on the straight path, and 2/3 curve + 1/3 straight on the branching path
12:12:32  <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: no.
12:13:10  <Alberth> can the "slightly shorter balancing piece on the straight side" not be a switch branching side?
12:13:23  <Alberth> Tekky: I don't understand either:)
12:13:36  <yorick> I believe he's talking about real toy trains
12:13:39  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: the problem is that 2/3 curve + 1/3 straight + 1/3 straight + 2/3 curve is shorter than 1/1 straight + 1/1 straight
12:14:04  <Tekky> Alberth: I have only just joined IRC a minute ago, therefore I don't know the topic of the discussion :)
12:14:24  <Eddi|zuHause> so i need 2/3 curve + 1/3 straight + 1/3+eps straight + 2/3 curve or 1/1 straight + 2/3-eps straight + 1/3 straight
12:15:07  <Eddi|zuHause> a switch does not include a balancing piece...
12:15:45  <Alberth> are you building a model railroad?
12:15:52  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
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12:29:10  <Tekky> I am currently looking into the source code of OpenTTD, in order to determine how easy it would be to implement waypoint groups. Such waypoints would be very useful if you have several track lanes. Then the train would take whatever track lane suits him best. Currently, when using waypoints, a waypoint can only be placed on a single track lane.
12:29:32  <glx> Tekky: wait a little :)
12:29:37  <yorick> Tekky: try stations
12:30:01  <Tekky> yorick: Nah, stations are ugly. :)
12:30:41  <Alberth> Tekky: if you read the recent commits, you'll find that waypoints are currently on the move
12:30:52  <Tekky> Yorick: And they have the major disadvantage that they cause a pathfinder penalty when trains pass through them.
12:31:12  <Tekky> Alberth: SVN comments?
12:31:24  <Alberth> or hg comments :)
12:31:49  <Ammler> vcs to be neutral :P
12:32:11  <Alberth> I am not vcs neutral, I don't like git :p
12:32:41  <Ammler> fully agree :-)
12:33:03  <Ammler> well, people, who use git, don't know hg.
12:34:10  <fjb> Or bazaar...
12:34:21  <Alberth> git was earlier
12:34:24  <Tekky> One thing I do not understand is the following: Would it not be simpler to give trains orders to go to individual signals and introduce the possibility of naming signals? I do not see the need for having waypoints at all.
12:34:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r16872 /trunk/src/ (roadveh.h roadveh_cmd.cpp roadveh_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Add RoadVehicle::GetDisplayImageWidth and simplify DrawRoadVehImage.
12:34:57  <Ammler> fjb: that looks like "hg light"
12:35:23  <fjb> Ammler: Then didn't look very close.
12:35:23  <Tekky> Ah, I just noticed, someone on the forum already made that suggestion of using signals as waypoints.
12:35:26  <Rubidium> any idea how many signals there are?
12:35:33  <Ammler> no, just one checkout :-)
12:36:10  <Alberth> Tekky: there are a LOT of signals from A to B. Also, that would knd of hard-code the exact path and make nice load balancing between different lanes difficult at least
12:36:15  <frosch123> @calc 2047*2047*4
12:36:15  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 16760836
12:36:55  <Tekky> Rubidium: Yes, but most of these signals are unnamed. Therefore, the pool of named signals would be very small, similar to the size of the pool of waypoints.
12:37:17  <Alberth> fjb: I like the ability to have several branches in a single repo
12:37:19  <SmatZ> hehe
12:38:22  <fjb> Alberth: And not only that, you can mix a central and distributed repositories.
12:38:42  <Alberth> fjb: hg offers that too
12:38:45  <Tekky> Alberth: As I said before, I was thinking about grouping waypoints. If this idea is applied to signals, it should be possible to group signals, so the train can choose which signal on what track lane it wants to go past.
12:39:41  <Alberth> hmm, a group of signals, each associated with its own block? sounds very complicated
12:40:43  <planetmaker> [14:33]	<Rubidium>	any idea how many signals there are? <-- in OTTD just 5 (well, plus their one-way variant, so 8)
12:40:51  <planetmaker> in reality: way too many.
12:41:23  <planetmaker> oh... nvm
12:41:29  <SmatZ> :)
12:41:31  * frosch123 cannot cast Signal to SignalType
12:41:33  <planetmaker> single signals in a game. Way too many :-P
12:41:39  <Rubidium> oh, and how do you intend to store the 'name' of the signal?
12:41:54  <Alberth> or show which group a signal belongs to?
12:42:28  <planetmaker> <-- I wonder about why there train #3 also crashes...
12:42:30  <frosch123> Rubidium, Alberth: he does not want to store the index in the map, but everytime scan the whole named-signal pool
12:42:53  <Tekky> Rubidium: I was thinking of adding a pool of signal groups. Every signal group has a name and a list of associated signals.
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12:43:52  <Rubidium> Tekky: so for each waypoint order you store the name of the signal and then look up that name?
12:45:22  <Tekky> Rubidium: Ah, well, every signal group should also have an ID. I guess it is more efficient if OpenTTD internally uses DWORD IDs instead of strings.
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12:46:07  <Tekky> Rubidium: So a train order will reference the ID of the signal group.
12:46:23  <Rubidium> yeah, but the map can't store that ID if it has signals on the tile
12:46:35  <Rubidium> 'cause there ain't enough space
12:48:07  <DJ-Burtybob> gfx.obj : error LNK2019: unresolved external symbol _ubidi_close_4_0
12:48:20  <DJ-Burtybob> Have tried rebuild didn't work :(
12:48:35  <Alberth> Tekky: except a StringID is only 16 bit
12:48:38  <Rubidium> DJ-Burtybob: you have mixed old openttd-useful with new openttd-useful
12:48:58  <DJ-Burtybob> Ok thanks
12:49:31  <Rubidium> DJ-Burtybob: the old (2.0-2.2) headers and libraries contain _ubidi_close_4_0. The new headers/libraries use _ubidi_close_4_2
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12:50:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i would like waypoints to be placed on tile edges, so you can place them at any point on a junction or station
12:51:06  <Tekky> Rubidium: I see no reason for the map to reference signal groups. Only the query tool needs to be able to make a list of all signal groups that a certain signal is a member of. Therefore, it would be sufficient to index all signal groups in a hash table, using the map coordinates of the individual signals as the hash key.
12:51:06  <Lazesharp> Rubidium: turns out my server host are running some lame SPI hardware firewall, which I don't want - means I have to use an SSH tunnel to connect >:(
12:51:10  <Lazesharp> thanks for your help though
12:51:36  <Eddi|zuHause> so a waypoint would once again have an advantage over 1-tile-stations
12:51:59  <Tekky> Alberth: I guess all pool items also have a pool ID. Therefore, I guess it would be easiest to use this pool ID.
12:52:16  <Eddi|zuHause> if that is too difficult, allow placing a signal on waypoints
12:52:44  <DJ-Burtybob> So the source I checked out is asking for the "OLD" useful where as I have the "NEW" is that correct?
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12:53:40  <Rubidium> DJ-Burtybob: no, it's something in the headers that causes the _4_0 or _4_2 added
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12:55:06  <Rubidium> Tekky: but then the pathfinder must, for each tile with signals, do a lookup to check whether that signal is in the waypoint signal group you're heading to
12:56:03  <Tekky> Eddi: I can't think of any situation where it would be meaningful to NOT place a waypoint on a signal, at least when using PBS signals. Therefore, I think it would be best to treat the signals themselves as potential waypoints.
12:57:21  <fonsinchen> Smatz, yesterday you stated that I was giving you a hard time with the smallmap zooming patch. Can you elaborate some?
12:58:03  <Tekky> Rubidium: Don't you have the same problem with stations with several platforms? Doesn't the pathfinder have to check whether the current tile is part of a station platform of the destination station?
12:58:39  <Rubidium> Tekky: yes, but that's a simple comparison
12:59:31  <Rubidium> going through list of waypoint tiles that are part of the waypoint you're heading to
12:59:50  <DJ-Burtybob> Rubidum: What would be causing the confusion? As I download the useful straight from and this is a fresh set up. ps thanks for your time
13:00:18  <Rubidium> and the number of signal tiles is, in most games, considerably larger than the number of lookups of stations
13:02:44  <Rubidium> DJ-Burtybob: the on does NOT contain headers that refer to _4_0. So you've got those headers somewhere else installed and MSVC wants to take those headers and the libraries from openttd-useful-2.3
13:04:17  <planetmaker> sorry, my bug report is invalid:
13:05:43  <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: i see too many difference between waypoints and signals to see a meaningful combination
13:06:45  <Tekky> Rubidium: How does the pathfinder work with multi-platform stations? What does it use as an A* heuristic? Does it use the distance to the bounding box of the station as an heuristic, even if the stations are not rectangular?
13:07:38  <Rubidium> Tekky: something like that
13:08:01  <glx> anyway Tekky, wait for current work to be done :)
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13:09:19  <Tekky> Rubidium: Hmmmm, maybe the pathfinder should then also use the bounding box of the waypoint/signal group then..... I must think about that further.
13:10:20  <Tekky> glx: Hehe, what exactly are you currently working on? Do the svn commit notes provide sufficient details?
13:10:32  <Patrick`>
13:12:29  <glx> for me they do, starting at r16859
13:12:58  <glx> at least they give a good indication about what happens :)
13:14:29  <Eddi|zuHause> Patrick`: funnily, i hear a different voice than you do...
13:15:02  <Tekky> Eddi: If it is true what I said before that there are no situations where waypoints should not be placed in the same locations as signals, then it seems meaningful to me for OpenTTD to consider waypoints as extensions to signals.
13:15:30  <Eddi|zuHause> and i don't believe that this is true
13:15:42  <Tekky> glx: Thanks, I will read the svn commit notes.
13:15:53  <Eddi|zuHause> look at all the "i want a one-way signal here that is not a safe stopping location"
13:16:01  <Eddi|zuHause> posts
13:16:31  <Eddi|zuHause> same thing will happen with waypoints
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13:17:03  <Tekky> Hmmmm, yes, maybe you are right.
13:19:18  <Tekky> Rubidium: Maybe it would be best to introduce an additional bit in the map array which tells the pathfinder whether a signal is named or not. That way, the pathfinder does not have to make an expensive hash table lookup for every signal.
13:19:52  <Rubidium> still it's more work than for stations
13:21:00  <Rubidium> assuming HasBit(_m[tile].mX, Y) is as expensive as _m[tile].mX == Y
13:22:12  <Tekky> I guess I should first study the source code about how the pathfinder handles multi-platform stations, since what I want to do is somewhat similar. Anyway, thanks for your advice, Rubidium.
13:23:10  <Rubidium> actually, for stations you only need to do IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) && _m[tile].mX == Y, for signals you need to do IsTileType(tile, MP_RAIL) && IsRailSubtype(tile, SIGNALLED_RAIL) && HasBit(_m[tile].mX, Y) to even know whether it might happen
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13:31:02  <Lazesharp> does the dedicated server pause when there's no one connected? or does it just keep running in the background?
13:31:24  <Tekky> Eddi|zuHause: What is the reason people want to place one-way signals in non-safe waiting locations? Is it to mark track as one-way?  Or are there also other reasons?
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13:32:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Tekky: big station entrances where trains choose paths that block to many other paths
13:32:19  <Eddi|zuHause> to say "use this part of the junction for incoming trains only"
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13:32:53  <Tekky> Eddi: So to mark track as one-way?
13:32:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
13:33:25  <Eddi|zuHause> my suggestion there is usually to completely separate one-way and signal markers
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13:36:10  <Tekky> Eddi: Yes, I pointed out to michi_cc during development of YAPP that there are situations where non-signal "one-way signs" would be useful. However, since I encountered such a situation only one single time, I told him that in my opinion, it may not be worth implementing them.
13:36:59  <Eddi|zuHause> you should test such things with more than your own playing style :p
13:38:18  <Tekky> Hehe :)
13:42:26  <Tekky> Eddi: I'm afraid the map would get too cluttered if it were necessary to place a one-way sign in addition to a signal. However, I would be in favor of the possibility of adding non-signal one-way signs.
13:44:18  <michi_cc> If you check the beginnings of YAPP you'll find that at first there actually was a two-way signal and a one way marker. Then people complained about needing to place two signals everywhere, thus the one-way signal was born.
13:45:23  <Tekky> Yes, I remember that.
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13:46:56  <Tekky> YAPP really has improved OpenTTD, now that is in trunk. Thanks again for your valuable work, michi_cc :)
13:49:12  <Tekky> Does anyone have an idea about whether most users now use block or path signals?
13:50:41  <frosch123> likely most users use no signals at all...
13:51:10  <Tekky> Ah, hehe, yes, I did not think about that. :)
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14:01:57  <SirSquid1ess> Tekky: as a rather casual openTTD player myself, as soon as I noticed these new path signal thingies, I went to find out wtf they were, and immediately started using them probably too much.
14:02:26  *** SirSquid1ess is now known as SirSquidness
14:06:18  <Tekky> SirSquidness: I see no reason to use the old signals anymore, because the new path signals can do everything the old signals can do, only better. That is, unless you do exotic things like priority lines with pre-signals.
14:06:49  <SirSquidness> I dont' see much point using path signals for non-intersections bits
14:07:05  <SirSquidness> I imagine path signals would have increased resource usage over block signals
14:07:17  <SirSquidness> not that it really matters with today's PCs
14:07:20  <SirSquidness> but that's beside the point :p
14:08:21  * Alberth uses plain block signals for all single line stretches and PBS for junctions and stations.
14:09:46  <SirSquidness> PBS are pure awesome.
14:10:49  <Alberth> Yesterday I wanted to show how to setup block signals around a station. I couldn't remember how, I had to look it up and do an experiment :p
14:11:11  <michi_cc> The performance impact of PBS signals on straight lines is actually very minor as reservation up to next first signal/junction can be done without calling the pathfinder at all
14:11:11  <SirSquidness> lol, smooth.
14:11:43  <SirSquidness> ah, thanks for the clarification michi_cc - I now do not feel any guilt in just usign PBS for straight lines :P
14:12:55  <Alberth> michi_cc: why is it allowed to pass a PBS signal in reverse direction? I don't understand why that would be useful.
14:13:15  <SirSquidness> going backwards through it gives a path finding penalty
14:13:36  <SirSquidness> so one use for it I've done is de-prioritise lanes of a station by putting backwards signlas.
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14:13:52  <Alberth> and wreaks havoc on other trains as it messes up a carefully planned idea of train directions ;)
14:13:52  <michi_cc> Alberth:
14:14:21  <SirSquidness> no it doesn't?
14:14:39  <SirSquidness> there's both a one-way-only PBS and a you-can-pass-through-theback-of-me signal
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14:14:47  <Alberth> michi_cc: yes, but why not have a 2-way signal for that?
14:15:07  <SirSquidness> I don't see anywhere in that picture where a two directional PBS signal would be useful
14:15:33  <Alberth> SirSquidness: if trains come from both directions
14:15:35  <SirSquidness> if you had it at the station entrance/exit, the trains would enter in to teh cross bits, blocking up the intersection
14:16:16  <Alberth> no, behind a signal is not a safe stopping position
14:16:34  <SirSquidness> I know
14:16:46  <SirSquidness> I get the feeling I misinterpreted what you meant then.
14:18:03  <Alberth> it is also perfectly possible I use the wrong signals at the wrong place, I do more coding than playing :)
14:18:22  <michi_cc> Alberth: a two-way pbs signal (two-sided would probably be the better word) does not make sense. two tracks opposite each other can't be a safe waiting point at the same time
14:19:06  <Alberth> hmm, yes. good point.
14:19:11  <SirSquidness> michi_cc knows what he/she's talking about
14:19:16  <SirSquidness> yay for concise answers :P
14:19:28  <michi_cc> there are some other nifty things you can do with yapp signals like
14:19:31  <Alberth> being the author of current PBS, I have no doubt about that
14:20:26  <michi_cc> bidirectional single-track that has priority for trains going in the same direction as the train currently on the single track stretch
14:20:39  <Alberth> (michi_cc being the author, not me)
14:22:03  <SirSquidness> indeed
14:22:33  <Alberth> yeah, nice. I would never have figured out such constructs. Then again, my games are very simple. Not many trains or big stations
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14:24:02  <SirSquidness> I'm qutie the opposite, Alberth - I hate the initial phase where it's small networks, and love the gigantic stage where you've got one huge concentrated area where almost every train passes through
14:24:08  <SirSquidness> and it's a nightmare to make work efficiently
14:25:05  <Alberth> how do you get to that point? you simply start connecting industries at random?
14:25:39  <Alberth> I do have a kind of central 'nervous' system where I hook up all industries, but it never gets crowded
14:25:57  <Alberth> maybe I don't play enough, or distribute the trains too much
14:26:07  <Alberth> s/play/play long/
14:27:42  <Alberth> ie
14:33:29  <SirSquidness> I often try and get as many crates/month through a single factory as possible
14:33:43  <SirSquidness> My record without cheating is ~13k
14:34:14  * SirSquidness uploads one of his saves
14:37:35  <SirSquidness>
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14:39:59  <Eddi|zuHause> so... i think i managed to balance my track lengths
14:40:06  <SirSquidness> myself and a mate spent maybe 10-15 hours expanding that. was epic fun.
14:40:21  <Eddi|zuHause> this is what the station is supposed to look like:
14:40:39  <Eddi|zuHause> only i don't have the proper track geometry library for the tracks i own
14:40:55  <SirSquidness> Eddi|zuHause: making a scale model railroad?
14:41:09  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, H0
14:41:18  <SirSquidness> awesome
14:41:28  * SirSquidness woudl love pics when you're done
14:41:38  <Eddi|zuHause> the tracks listed in the picture would cost 200EUR
14:42:01  <SirSquidness> it's not a cheap hobby
14:42:21  <Alberth> SirSquidness: looks great!!
14:42:52  <SirSquidness> I assume you looked down where the big hub around the factory is?
14:42:56  <SirSquidness> (the HQ is right next to it)
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14:43:13  <Alberth> yeah, it's a bit crowded there :)
14:43:28  <Alberth> luckily, we don't measure air pollution in OpenTTD :)
14:43:35  <SirSquidness> aaand... if you have a look at Chuhattan Valley, you'll see a nice use of backwards PBS
14:44:54  <SirSquidness> the ironic thing is..we spent almost no time making the aircraft network, yet it almost makes the same around as the rail network
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14:50:04  <Alberth> SirSquidness: you should set the airplane speed to 1/4 (same as in original ttd), that gives a better balance
14:50:35  <SirSquidness> By the time we bothered with aircraft, we were making enough money to not worry about money
14:50:42  <SirSquidness> so it didn't really matter :p
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14:51:53  <Alberth> :)
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14:56:43  <Patrick`> 13k crates of goods a month?
14:56:47  <Patrick`> I think I can best that, one sec
14:56:58  <TrueBrain> how big is yours?
14:57:02  <TrueBrain> :p
14:57:22  <SirSquidness> It wouldn't be hard to beat it I was to start on another factory with only maglev and vast amounts of money now
14:57:22  <Eddi|zuHause> |<--- about this -->|
14:57:39  <SirSquidness> that 13k uses mostly elec trains to get it's frieght in/out
14:57:45  <Patrick`> 12k
14:57:49  <Patrick`> damn
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14:57:55  <Patrick`> but that's all from a single section of ore mines
14:57:58  <Patrick`> feeding one steel plant
14:58:01  <Patrick`> 17k steel a month
14:58:06  <Patrick`> 10 tracks in each direction :D
14:58:09  <SirSquidness> dayum
14:58:28  <Patrick`> I was gonna make it bigger
14:58:42  <Alberth> now you have an excuse :p
14:58:53  <Patrick`> I have 500 ore trains
14:58:56  <Patrick`> for one station
14:59:13  <Patrick`> it was not fun to make
14:59:31  <TrueBrain> then why did you do it?
14:59:52  <Patrick`> actually
15:00:04  <Patrick`> it was quite fun, and education, but I wouldn't do it again
15:00:14  <Patrick`> I actually had to change the ottd loading algorithm
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15:29:28  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16873 /trunk/src/terraform_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Terraform window and scenario landscape editing window switched to nested widgets.
15:39:09  <yorick> Alberth: if the widgets are not numbered continuously, it crashes in Window::RaiseButtons()
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15:53:59  <yorick> alberth: <-- convert newgrf window to nested widgets ;)
15:56:28  <Ammler> are there still people using the original newgrf gui?
15:57:23  <yorick> Ammler: the new thing needs to be converted to nested widgets
15:57:56  <Ammler> I meant something else, but nvm. :-)
15:58:29  <yorick> Ammler: no I want to know
15:58:32  <yorick> :)
15:59:09  <Ammler> well, I use the newgrf gui from forums whenever possible.
15:59:27  <yorick> mhm
15:59:49  <Ammler> (in pm's patch pack)
16:01:03  <frosch123> so, am is using pm's patch pack
16:01:30  <planetmaker> hm?
16:02:38  <planetmaker> frosch123: the patch "pack" is quite simple currently: the newgrf gui patch and the improved station build Gui patch
16:02:41  <planetmaker> nothing more :-)
16:02:58  <planetmaker> but both is IMO too handy for playing to leave it out :-)
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16:07:49  <Rubidium> oh, those unfinished patches :)
16:08:40  <yorick> what's unfinished?
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16:48:14  <Alberth> yorick: line 34 is wrong, current_y is a length not a position; add pos_y
16:48:44  <Alberth> oh, sorry, it is correct
16:49:00  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: i'm sure everybody you ask will say that they are "well tested" :p
16:49:07  <yorick> just one bug, InitNested needs to go before the resize.step_height
16:52:53  <Alberth> Line 45 seems a good way to make a fragile program.
16:53:26  *** fjb [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
16:54:25  <Eddi|zuHause> that's good news... because you can cut another two letters and you have an agile program
16:54:36  <yorick> Alberth: it was already in :)
16:55:05  <yorick> blame the grf preset patch baker
16:55:11  <Alberth> that doesn't it alright imho.
16:55:52  <Alberth> as for resize.step_height, that is controlled from the tree, and computed from the resize steps
16:56:05  <yorick> but it's put to 0
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16:56:32  <Alberth> then something doesn't resize along.
16:56:51  <yorick> then it's broken
16:57:01  <Alberth> for a horizontal container to resize vertically, all it children must allow vertical resize
16:57:19  <PeterT> in future versions, will there be support for loading a scenario in game by rcon?
16:57:21  <Alberth> and viece versa for a vertical container.
16:57:22  <yorick> but it does resize when setting that step height to 14
16:57:27  <yorick> PeterT: rename it to sav
16:57:36  <PeterT> yorick: NO
16:57:42  <PeterT> :)
16:57:44  <yorick> PeterT: YES
16:57:52  <PeterT> i would have to rename all my scenarios
16:57:52  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: write a patch
16:58:01  <PeterT> i dont know how to write a patch
16:58:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well, you open an editor
16:58:19  <Alberth> lol
16:58:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and modify the appropriate lines
16:58:27  <yorick> PeterT: write a script, write a patch, go to and add a feature request that will never be done
16:58:46  <PeterT> which would the apropriate lines?
16:58:48  <Alberth> Eddi|zuHause: I thought you'd say 'and write a diff' :D
16:58:58  <yorick> PeterT: try looking
16:59:03  <Ammler> loading scenario is already possible, isn't?
16:59:08  <PeterT> with rcon, no
16:59:15  <PeterT> in multiplayer games, no
16:59:15  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: well, that would be a slight step too absurd :p
16:59:16  <Alberth> PeterT: those lines of the code that make the program do what you want it to do
16:59:16  <Ammler> did you try?
16:59:24  <PeterT> yes
16:59:29  <Ammler> hmm
17:00:06  <Alberth> how often?
17:00:31  <yorick> Ammler: don't make it, he'll ask for more ;)
17:00:41  <Ammler> you can load now the tmp file so why not .scn?
17:00:52  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: he'll ask for more anyway :p
17:01:06  *** Singaporekid [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
17:01:20  <yorick> Eddi: because someone will do it anyways
17:01:22  *** Singaporekid [] has joined #openttd
17:01:40  * yorick might be a bit responsible
17:01:53  <Eddi|zuHause> yes... this someone guy is to blame for everything...
17:02:05  <Eddi|zuHause> he should get a life or something...
17:02:27  <PeterT> Alberth: I tried alot
17:02:33  <PeterT> rcon password "ls
17:02:47  <PeterT> shows me the scenarios (if the game was loaded by scenario)
17:02:50  <PeterT> then i tried
17:03:01  <PeterT> rcon password load 1
17:03:06  * yorick thinks about the ironic fact that the one with 49829 lines on #openttd
17:03:14  <yorick> at #2
17:03:14  <PeterT> it loaded the #1 savegame
17:03:18  <yorick> right next to peter1138
17:03:33  <Alberth> PeterT: I meant modifying the source code
17:03:45  <Ammler> PeterT: try to name the explicit scenario with name
17:03:53  <Ammler> load*
17:03:53  *** Singaporekid [] has quit []
17:04:26  <PeterT> Ammler?
17:04:27  <PeterT> what?
17:04:52  <yorick> load "scenname.scn"
17:05:03  <PeterT> tried that too (Yexo)
17:05:15  <PeterT> i have a forum post on this whole thing
17:05:34  <Eddi|zuHause> he has a forum post, and he will use it!!1!
17:05:34  <PeterT> he said they need to intergrate it
17:05:45  <yorick> Eddi: einz?
17:06:04  <Eddi|zuHause> einundelfzich
17:06:07  *** sdafsdf [] has quit [Quit: Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?]
17:06:09  *** LadyHawk [] has joined #openttd
17:06:21  <Eddi|zuHause> -d
17:06:34  <Eddi|zuHause> it's difficult to write incorrectly :p
17:06:36  <Ammler> onyl for Germans :-)
17:06:38  <PeterT> i dont know how to code, so i wouldnt know what to edit
17:06:50  <Ammler> even we can't do that.
17:06:50  <KenjiE20> I managed :)
17:07:03  <PeterT> How?
17:07:10  <KenjiE20> by thinking
17:07:19  <yorick> yes, try thinking
17:07:25  <yorick> I can recommend that
17:07:36  <Eddi|zuHause> the code is self explaining
17:07:43  <Ammler> thinking and openttd on same time?
17:07:48  <Eddi|zuHause> just search for a part that says both "rcon" and "load"
17:07:49  <KenjiE20> I know sod all C++ but by reading and going 'hmm' I could figure out what I needed
17:08:19  <PeterT> ok, rcon load
17:08:19  <Ammler> KenjiE20: you needed to patch the source?
17:08:21  <Eddi|zuHause> and then search for another part that says "load" and "scenario"
17:08:23  <glx> and filenames are explicit too
17:08:29  * yorick started by hammering cluelessly
17:08:31  <Eddi|zuHause> and figure out what the difference is
17:08:41  <KenjiE20> Ammler: my split old vehicle news messages patch thing
17:08:50  <PeterT> once i found them, what then?
17:09:00  <PeterT> i have no idea what to do to them
17:09:34  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it'll not come to you without looking
17:10:11  <yorick> PeterT: try thinking
17:10:24  <PeterT> ok, i might as well dowload the source code now
17:10:41  <KenjiE20> that would help
17:11:08  <yorick> does downloading still work?
17:11:26  <Alberth> PeterT: didn't you compile the code already?
17:12:08  <Alberth> PeterT: next step is to learn C++
17:12:16  <yorick> but start with C
17:12:26  <Akoz> I'd suggest starting with assembly
17:12:30  <yorick> or better, start with assembly
17:12:35  <yorick> Akoz :(
17:12:36  <Akoz> :p
17:12:55  <Eddi|zuHause> i suggest to start with basic expressions and control flow
17:13:05  <Eddi|zuHause> everything else comes with reading the code
17:13:09  <yorick> Akoz: I can not imaginine him understanding basic expressions and control flow
17:13:18  <KenjiE20> punch cards!
17:13:36  <PeterT> :(
17:13:37  <Akoz> maybe if he makes his own operating system first he'll more easily understand how best to write c++ code
17:13:41  <PeterT> i just want to load scenarios
17:13:51  <PeterT> i need to do this later
17:13:53  <PeterT> thanks
17:14:03  <yorick> Akoz: he first needs to know assembly to interface with the BIOS
17:14:05  <PeterT> i have to restore my computer now :(
17:14:11  <Akoz> oh. right
17:14:12  <Akoz> my bad
17:14:13  <yorick> Akoz: then he needs to make a compiler in assembly
17:14:17  <PeterT> or get ready
17:14:19  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: no, he can do that in machine code
17:14:20  <PeterT> to
17:14:20  <yorick> so then he understands C
17:14:36  <yorick> and then he can write a C++ compiler in C
17:14:50  <Eddi|zuHause> he should start with programming a Z3
17:15:02  <yorick> he should start with programming butterflies!
17:15:08  <KenjiE20> lol
17:15:14  <Eddi|zuHause> and then build transistor-based computers
17:15:35  <yorick>
17:15:43  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. we know
17:16:18  <yorick> :)
17:18:59  <Eddi|zuHause> actually, we did once program by generating all possible universes, and then discarding the ones that did not contain the desired program
17:20:03  <TrueBrain> always a good method
17:20:33  <yorick> what did you do with the ones that did not contain the desired reality?
17:23:41  <Eddi|zuHause> the same thing you do with all programs that you do not need...
17:24:05  <yorick> so that explains :)
17:24:13  <Eddi|zuHause> what a silly question...
17:24:13  <yorick> you are evil :-)
17:24:30  <Eddi|zuHause> it's like asking "what happened to the universe from 2 seconds ago?"
17:24:44  <TrueBrain> it still there, just in an alternative reality :p
17:25:20  <Eddi|zuHause> i am not evil... i am just pragmatic
17:25:39  <yorick> you accept realities in which people believe in things that aren't there :)
17:25:53  <yorick> and you choose those
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17:26:30  <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: because it needs O2
17:26:46  <LadyHawk> lol
17:27:03  <LadyHawk> you're not the first to respond to my quit message
17:27:13  <LadyHawk> you do make the most sense out of the answers i got though
17:27:23  <TrueBrain> ;)
17:27:33  <yorick> LadyHaw: the same way squirrels stick to trees
17:27:37  <Eddi|zuHause> that's why glue "dries" faster when you blow at it
17:27:37  <yorick> everyone knows
17:27:47  <TrueBrain> I couldn't find a clever reply, so I thought the real answer would be better ;)
17:27:50  <LadyHawk> someone said the inside of the bottle is covered with a nonstick layer or something.. but that doesn't explain why the glue doesn't dry up in there
17:27:57  <LadyHawk> i cant even remember the other one
17:28:09  <yorick> LadyHawk: the squirrel one?
17:28:11  <Eddi|zuHause> it's in the log files
17:28:21  <Eddi|zuHause> why would you need to remember it?
17:29:13  <LadyHawk> i'm spread over 4 networks, too many logs to search
17:29:41  <yorick> grep
17:29:43  <TrueBrain> you are spread? Haha! That sounds horrible :p
17:30:00  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: what were you mumbling about?
17:30:17  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: the "unfinished" patches
17:30:25  <PeterT> is mingw still the easiest way to compile and patch?
17:30:30  <PeterT> (win32)
17:30:43  <yorick> yes
17:30:47  <yorick> it didn't change much in 2 days
17:30:48  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: all people will tell you that they are "well tested"
17:30:57  <PeterT> yorick: 2days?
17:31:01  <yorick> yes 2 days
17:31:12  <PeterT> why 2 days?
17:31:15  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: lies, I've more than once showns patches saying the were "not tested"
17:31:21  <PeterT> was that the last time i mentioned it?
17:31:22  <yorick> because that's the last time you asked
17:31:25  <KenjiE20> yorick: obviously he's a goldfish
17:31:35  <KenjiE20> which would explain a lot
17:31:37  <KenjiE20> :P
17:31:38  <PeterT> ok
17:31:42  <yorick> KenjiE20: goldfish can remember for more than 2 days
17:32:06  <KenjiE20> oh new research? I thought it was like 5 mins?
17:32:13  <yorick> old research
17:32:17  <TrueBrain> KenjiE20: only in the bullshit world :)
17:32:27  <TrueBrain> to make people feel at ease because you put them in a small bowl :p
17:32:30  <yorick> 1994
17:32:49  <KenjiE20> meh, I never bothered to verify said claim
17:32:54  <yorick> "More recent research by the School of Psychology at the University of Plymouth in 2003[citation needed] demonstrated that goldfish have a memory-span of at least three months and can distinguish between different shapes, colours and sounds."
17:33:00  <yorick> wikipedia :)
17:33:07  <Eddi|zuHause> reminds me of the Koi in the pond of my friend
17:33:08  <KenjiE20> cool
17:33:11  <TrueBrain> KenjiE20: never seen the Mythbusters episode? :p
17:33:14  <KenjiE20> no
17:33:16  <yorick> that too
17:33:22  <yorick> the one with the fish and the maze
17:33:23  <TrueBrain> not that it is any proof ... :p
17:33:25  * KenjiE20 doesn't watch Mythbusters
17:33:29  <Eddi|zuHause> when you walk past the pond without giving him food, he will sprinkle water on you
17:33:30  <yorick> YOU WHAT
17:34:20  <KenjiE20> you heard me
17:35:11  <yorick> the poor thing
17:35:31  <KenjiE20> meh
17:35:38  <yorick> let me lock you in a basement with discovery channel and food
17:35:48  <KenjiE20> ok, I've 'seen' a couple, never hooked me
17:36:17  *** PeterT [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
17:36:22  <yorick> ooh :
17:36:24  <yorick> :)
17:36:25  <Eddi|zuHause> yorick: everyone can write everything at wikipedia and put a [citation needed] at it...
17:37:11  <yorick> Eddi:
17:37:22  *** xenol [] has joined #openttd
17:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> since when do i click random links in a weird irc channel?
17:38:13  <yorick> since they are from google
17:38:17  <yorick> and you can blame me
17:38:26  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. i'll do that...
17:38:30  <Rubidium> since you complained about there being spaces in URLs?
17:38:31  * TrueBrain gives Eddi|zuHause privileges to use @kick ;)
17:38:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r16874 /trunk/src/depot_gui.cpp: -Change: Give the number behind free wagon chains in depots the same meaning as for trains.
17:38:57  <xenol> hello. i am curious. afaik when owning 75% of other companies, you should be able to control them. but whenever i own 75% of company, i simply can't. afaik it was possible in ttd. (talking about single player)
17:39:06  <yorick> no, you need to own 100%
17:39:17  <xenol> then i retake it
17:39:20  <yorick> and if you can't, blame multiplayer
17:39:29  <xenol> and it becomes part of my own company
17:39:32  <Rubidium> xenol: ttd != ttdpatch
17:39:57  <Alberth> xenol: maybe in original ttd? not in ttdx afaik
17:40:25  <Rubidium> Alberth: original ttd == ttdx == ttdlx or whatever other acronym they used
17:40:44  <xenol> Rubidium: Alberth i am not sure in which i don't remember :> though i know about that functionality. is it possible in openttd?
17:41:10  <Alberth> Hmm, original tt I meant.
17:41:38  <Alberth> xenol: only if you take over 100%
17:41:43  <Rubidium> Alberth: ttd can be considered as a superset of tto, most feature wise
17:41:49  <Rubidium> xenol: use the change company cheat
17:41:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Alberth: tto did not have shares
17:42:11  <xenol> Rubidium: i am not a cheater >< but thanks
17:42:38  <Eddi|zuHause> Rubidium: except for the jinty/chippie class ;)
17:43:09  <Alberth> I played a lot of ttdx, and did not see the feature. If it is also not in tto, then ttdpatch would be the only version supporting it.
17:44:03  <Eddi|zuHause> in tto you could only buy out companies if they went bankrupt
17:44:08  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: I know it is not a strict superset in the mathematical sense, but as rule of the thumb: if it ain't in TTD, it wasn't in TTO either holds, especially for features that aren't in TTD but are in TTDP
17:44:35  <xenol> i am not sure, but i remember than i owe 75% and i could switch from my company to the other. i could do everything just like in mine. mine was making money and i was playing other one :)
17:44:53  <yorick> was it miniin?
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17:45:17  <xenol> are you asking me?
17:45:37  <Eddi|zuHause> who else would know what version you played?
17:45:38  <PeterT> after downloading the source, do i have to compile it?
17:45:42  <PeterT> then edit it
17:45:47  <Eddi|zuHause> no
17:45:51  <yorick> PeterT: try thinking?
17:45:51  <PeterT> ok
17:45:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r16875 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files):
17:45:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 46 changes by EraserKing, Gavin
17:45:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: indonesian - 5 changes by prof
17:45:52  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 18 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:45:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: ukrainian - 2 changes by nsergiy
17:45:55  <PeterT> yorick?!
17:45:56  <KenjiE20> yorick: lol
17:45:58  <PeterT> what
17:46:03  <PeterT> how would i know?
17:46:11  <KenjiE20> you like that phrase huh?
17:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but you should compile it just that you know that it works
17:46:18  <xenol> yorick: as i said, i don't remember which version i played, it was very long time ago
17:46:20  <yorick> compiling = source code > something playable
17:46:21  <yorick> ok
17:46:22  <TrueBrain> lol, yorick who says that, this is amuzing :)
17:46:24  <Eddi|zuHause> if it does not compile later, you know it was something you did
17:46:25  <DaleStan> xenol: That is a TTDPatch feature.
17:46:36  <KenjiE20> TB: that was me a little while ago
17:46:38  <yorick> TrueBrain: yes, he even annoys me :)
17:46:47  <TrueBrain> yorick: that is even more amuzing :)
17:46:50  <xenol> DaleStan: ah, thanks. i guess it ain't in openttd? :XD
17:46:52  <xenol> :X
17:47:14  <PeterT> ok
17:47:18  <PeterT> i will compile
17:48:18  <TrueBrain> amusing
17:48:20  <TrueBrain> what ever
17:50:33  <PeterT> if a patch at is not rejected, does that mean that it will be in a trunk at some time?
17:50:40  *** xenol [] has left #openttd []
17:50:50  <yorick> no
17:51:30  <yorick> it means that it is yet to be rejected
17:51:35  <yorick> or accepted
17:51:51  <Eddi|zuHause> hehe... cool... police arrests a "timetraveller" that wanted to fuel his car "Birgit" [which he talks to] with water (because red bull was too expensive)
17:51:51  <KenjiE20> or even looked at :)
17:52:02  <PeterT> but that ones that are already 100% or 50% are accepted?
17:52:05  <glx> note: we don't read the wiki ;)
17:52:10  <PeterT> or even 10%
17:52:55  *** JFBelugas [] has quit [Quit: savIRC - The Cross-Platform IRC Client]
17:53:17  <yorick> PeterT: does it say that anywhere>
17:53:22  <Eddi|zuHause> PeterT: the only place where a patch can be accepted or rejected is the bug tracker
17:53:31  <PeterT>
17:53:35  <yorick> good
17:53:46  <KenjiE20> Eddi; Riot police stormed a man's 30th birthday barbecue for 15 guests because it was advertised as an "all-night" party on Facebook. <-- hehe
17:53:48  <PeterT> well, my msys failed
17:53:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i read that, too ;)
17:54:00  <PeterT> had to add to this computer, cannot find zlib or png
17:54:09  <yorick> my christal sphere doesn't know what happened
17:54:10  <KenjiE20> I thought that was brilliant
17:54:22  <yorick> I think you might not have installed zlib or png
17:54:39  <glx> the easiest setup is msvc express
17:55:10  <PeterT> HERE:
17:55:19  <PeterT> ingame load scenario
17:55:22  <PeterT> should work with rcon too
17:55:25  <yorick> but then, thinking should be left to horses, in dutch, they have much bigger heads
17:55:43  <Eddi|zuHause> KenjiE20: britain is on the best way to become a rutheless police state...
17:55:55  <KenjiE20> indeed :(
17:55:59  <yorick> PeterT: would it?
17:56:04  <PeterT> it should
17:56:07  <yorick> have you looked at other rcon commands?
17:56:07  <glx> install msvc, install august 2007 DX SDK, install latest windows SDK (6.1), extract openttd-useful somewhere, add paths to that somewhere to msvc
17:56:10  <Eddi|zuHause> now they want to make tony blair EU president...
17:56:10  <yorick> are they defined there?
17:56:17  <TrueBrain> yorick: in the magic world, it automaticly works for rcon too
17:56:21  <TrueBrain> you should understand that by now :)
17:56:51  <TrueBrain> it works like this: insert feature A at place Z, and automaticly feature B, C, and D are inserted in secret place S
17:56:51  <yorick> TrueBain: I think that patch would in the best case do nothing
17:57:16  <TrueBrain> it is like the magic mirror of programming
17:57:23  <TrueBrain> an unversal law
17:57:31  <TrueBrain> how else did we program all those functions .. not one by one I hope!
17:57:31  <yorick> PeterT: did you learn C++ yet?
17:57:36  <yorick> did you have a look at the code yet?
17:57:43  <yorick> did you do your homework yet?
17:57:45  <PeterT> you cant just C++, i will look, yes
17:57:51  <PeterT> *cant just learn
17:57:53  <PeterT> takes time
17:57:56  <yorick> yes you can
17:58:00  <yorick> no it doesn't
17:58:02  <PeterT> you guys make it seem like its easy
17:58:05  <yorick> and it is
17:58:15  <PeterT> then make me a patch
17:58:19  <TrueBrain> yorick: you are my new favorite person in this IRC :) (and this time without sarcasm :))
17:58:20  <yorick> no
17:58:21  <KenjiE20> I just C++'d
17:58:35  <yorick> TrueBrain :)
17:58:40  <PeterT> is this ok:
17:58:53  <yorick> how should we know?
17:58:54  <TrueBrain> no
17:58:56  <TrueBrain> the idea alone
17:58:57  <TrueBrain> brrr
17:59:15  <PeterT> yorick: know by clicking the link
17:59:23  <PeterT> and telling me if thats a good start
17:59:24  <yorick> PeterT: why would I click your link
18:00:57  <PeterT> Why not
18:01:49  <yorick> because it might be dangerous, and I would have to do something for it
18:02:05  <yorick> and clicking the link wouldn't do anything
18:02:49  <PeterT> its not dangerous, its the results of a google of "C++"
18:02:55  <KenjiE20> says you
18:03:04  <PeterT> and i bet you've already clicked on it, and you are just annoying me
18:03:14  <LadyHawk> ....
18:03:15  <yorick> I haven't clicked on it
18:03:20  <PeterT> says you
18:03:23  <yorick> again: clicking wouldn't do anything
18:03:41  <LadyHawk> stop argueing about a bloody c++ tutorial already!
18:03:41  <KenjiE20> click,click,clickclickclick, nope nothing happening
18:03:42  <yorick> I'm running irssi and my terminal does not magically find links and makes them clickable
18:03:44  <LadyHawk> what's the fucking point!
18:05:00  <yorick> the results of a google of "C++" could be dangerous
18:05:05  <yorick> google could be a conspiracy
18:05:27  <Akoz> I still think assembly would be the way to go
18:05:30  <PeterT> what does this mean? "ines beginning with a hash sign (#) are directives for the preprocessor. "
18:05:39  <yorick> exactly that
18:05:45  <PeterT> i dont understand
18:05:45  <yorick> but with an l in front
18:05:53  <Akoz> ^^
18:06:03  <LadyHawk> pre-processor
18:06:03  <Akoz> PeterT, something for the road:
18:06:05  <PeterT> what are directives for the preprocessor
18:06:09  <LadyHawk> something that runs before it 'processes' the code?
18:06:28  <PeterT> ok
18:06:54  <LadyHawk> just a guess like........... i dont know c++ but it would make sense
18:06:56  * LadyHawk bangs her head on her desk and alt+tabs out
18:07:07  <KenjiE20> lol
18:07:30  *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@] has joined #openttd
18:07:40  <yorick> oh, it's a her
18:07:56  <PeterT> well, "Lady"hawk
18:08:15  <yorick> how many hers have you seen on irc?
18:08:24  <PeterT> is there a reason the there are "{" between lines?
18:08:29  *** KenjiE20 is now known as LadyKenjiE20
18:08:32  <LadyKenjiE20> but I'm not!
18:08:36  *** LadyKenjiE20 is now known as KenjiE20
18:08:43  <yorick> PeterT: probably
18:08:48  <PeterT> it is?
18:08:51  <TrueBrain> KenjiE20: no, I have seen that picture of you in a dress .. not a pretty sight
18:09:17  <TrueBrain> PeterT: I tell you once again: get a good book (from a store) about C++, and stop asking us all those questions about C++. This is an OpenTTD channel. Not: learn me C++ because I am too darn lezy channel.
18:09:19  <yorick> PeterT: could it be that it is explained later on?
18:09:26  <KenjiE20> >_< damn you google!!!!
18:09:26  <TrueBrain> maybe there is some channel on tihs IRC, but this channel is not that
18:09:49  <Akoz> go to efnet
18:09:51  <Akoz> and to #c++
18:09:54  <welshdragon> yorick: ypu've proved once again how silly you are
18:09:55  <PeterT> i have joined #c++
18:09:59  <Akoz> efnet
18:10:05  <Akoz> ./server -m
18:10:05  <PeterT> #efnet?
18:10:08  <Akoz> sorry.. no
18:10:09  <LadyHawk> ....
18:10:13  <Akoz> ./server
18:10:14  <Akoz> would be better
18:10:16  <Akoz> without the .
18:10:21  <KenjiE20> or the o
18:10:21  <TrueBrain> with the i instead of the o
18:10:23  <yorick> PeterT: also, I'm not your "Learn me C++ because I am too darn lezy channel"
18:10:25  <Akoz> right. with the i
18:10:26  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:10:28  <Akoz> wee
18:10:30  <KenjiE20> lol
18:10:31  <TrueBrain> Akoz: nice job, tnx :)
18:10:34  <Akoz> yw
18:10:35  <TrueBrain> @voice Akoz
18:10:38  *** mode/#openttd [+v Akoz] by DorpsGek
18:10:43  <Akoz> <3
18:10:44  *** PeterT [] has joined #openttd
18:10:51  <frosch123> :o
18:10:53  <Akoz> aww
18:10:55  <yorick> TrueBrain: devoice him again ;)
18:10:59  <Akoz> lol
18:11:02  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
18:11:09  <PeterT> stop please
18:11:16  <PeterT> i will get a book then
18:11:18  <KenjiE20> stop what?
18:11:30  <yorick> I guess he asked in efnet
18:11:42  <yorick> OR DIDNT YOU
18:12:20  <yorick> "I want to learn C++, can anyone teach?" "NO." "bye :("
18:12:24  <yorick> :)
18:12:37  * welshdragon kicks yorick (for the hell of it)
18:12:49  <KenjiE20> hehe
18:12:51  <KenjiE20> food time
18:13:01  <TrueBrain> @kick welshdragon yorick is under my protection; don't try that again
18:13:01  *** welshdragon was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [yorick is under my protection; don't try that again]
18:13:05  *** welshdragon [~welshdrag@] has joined #openttd
18:13:17  <LadyHawk> kinky
18:13:28  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: i felt that
18:13:37  <yorick> :) :)
18:13:41  <welshdragon> also, i was joking
18:13:48  <TrueBrain> like I was all that serious :)
18:14:11  <yorick> TrueBrain kicks for fun, you should know :D
18:14:21  <welshdragon> i do too
18:14:21  <TrueBrain> no, yorick, that you only know ;) :p
18:14:52  <LadyHawk> thanks to 'auto rejoin on kick', kicks are never serious
18:14:54  <PeterT> he kicks for fuN?
18:14:59  <TrueBrain> <- my new opening line .. will it work?
18:15:04  <yorick> kick count 55 :)
18:15:13  <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: reason I do a kickban when I am serious :)
18:15:13  <LadyHawk> rofl
18:15:15  <PeterT> i recall a certain TrueBrain "@kban 1000 do it yourself"
18:15:26  <TrueBrain> PeterT: and yet you didn't learn ...
18:15:28  <TrueBrain> makes me sad ...
18:15:47  * LadyHawk remembers
18:15:51  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: i can see we share a likeness for getting kicks out of kicking innocent people
18:16:03  <TrueBrain> welshdragon: with the only difference, I can do real kicks :) MWHAHAHHAHA
18:16:05  * TrueBrain goes evil
18:16:13  <welshdragon> TrueBrain: so can i
18:16:14  <yorick> you already were
18:16:15  <TrueBrain> why is it so much easier to be evil and hated, than to be good and loved?
18:16:26  * welshdragon is an operator in #ukbus
18:16:37  * yorick is not in #ukbus anymore
18:16:40  <yorick> Jolteons...
18:17:02  <LadyHawk> [18/7][19:16:08] <TrueBrain> why is it so much easier to be evil and hated, than to be good and loved?
18:17:02  * PeterT requested a bus to be in #ukbus
18:17:08  <LadyHawk> simple answer, you need tits to be good and loved
18:17:15  <TrueBrain> good point
18:17:18  <TrueBrain> explains why my ex was evil
18:17:23  <PeterT> hehe
18:17:24  <yorick> heh, fat people!
18:17:24  <TrueBrain> (lol, that was below the belt I guess)
18:17:24  <Akoz> O_o
18:17:28  <LadyHawk> lol
18:17:29  <yorick> food time!
18:17:38  *** Rubidium [] has left #openttd [previous experiences have shown that this works even better than an ignore list]
18:17:50  <yorick> :D
18:17:52  <Akoz> lol
18:17:57  <Akoz> I love this channel
18:18:12  <welshdragon> yorick: i know, he's on a 2 warnings then kick/ban now
18:18:19  <welshdragon> plus he no longer has ops
18:18:48  <PeterT> Akoz: i was wondering, what dose GPL have to do with posting a binary?
18:19:06  <welshdragon> also: lol @ rubidium :D
18:19:38  <Akoz> you'll need to ask DaleStan about that p
18:20:01  <PeterT> because ive seen others post binaries
18:20:13  <PeterT> DaleStan: why can't akoz post a binary?
18:21:16  <PeterT> DaleStan: to the city builder patch
18:21:23  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
18:22:07  <PeterT> ok, i need to go
18:22:10  *** PeterT [] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
18:22:18  <TrueBrain> WHOHO! FREEDOM!
18:22:20  <Akoz> xD
18:22:26  <TrueBrain> so, now some reality ... who is in for a game of scrabble?
18:22:53  <Akoz> did you make an ottd patch to play scrabble with?
18:23:18  <TrueBrain> hmm... there is an idea :)
18:23:48  <Akoz> let me know when its done :)ลก
18:23:52  <TrueBrain> its done
18:23:56  <Akoz> :o
18:24:00  <Akoz> gif patch!
18:24:03  <TrueBrain> but ... how do I compile it?
18:24:06  <Akoz> :p
18:24:14  <TrueBrain> I tried mingw, and it keeps on giving me this error: unknown directory 'openttd'
18:24:16  <TrueBrain> I don't udnerstand
18:24:18  <TrueBrain> can you teach me C++?
18:24:25  <TrueBrain> @kick TrueBrain go f*** yourself or something
18:24:25  *** TrueBrain was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [go f*** yourself or something]
18:24:31  <Akoz> O_o
18:24:36  *** TrueBrain [~truebrain@] has joined #openttd
18:24:47  * TrueBrain feels so much better now
18:25:03  <Akoz> you know there are clinics for that sort of things
18:25:15  <TrueBrain> does it involve sex?
18:25:23  * welshdragon thinks TrueBrain is mad
18:25:36  <TrueBrain> welshdragon: join the club
18:25:39  <Eddi|zuHause> so what?
18:25:48  <welshdragon> and not all clinics are sex orientated
18:25:59  <Eddi|zuHause> every sane person i ever met was mad...
18:26:06  <welshdragon> :P
18:27:04  <TrueBrain> <- /me likes
18:28:48  <Akoz> nice site
18:28:52  <Akoz> <- :p
18:29:30  <TrueBrain> hahahaa :)
18:29:45  <TrueBrain> oh, what a boring day
18:29:49  <TrueBrain> maybe I should do something useful
18:30:33  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, read more xkcd :p
18:32:00  <TrueBrain> failblog is more fun :)
18:36:32  *** R0b0t1 [] has joined #openttd
18:36:39  <TrueBrain> welcome back R0b0t1
18:36:48  <R0b0t1> :)
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18:38:54  <Eddi|zuHause> did you know that the german word "Arbeit" and the russian word "robot" have the same etymological root?
18:39:32  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16876 /trunk/src/ (station.cpp station_base.h station_type.h waypoint.h): -Codechange: add helper functions to cast to Station/Waypoint with some extra checks.
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18:40:52  <Eddi|zuHause> (originally meaning something like "slave", later taking the meaning of "work")
18:42:46  <TrueBrain> sounds reasonable :p
18:42:51  <Akoz> O_o
18:43:04  <Akoz> ftw
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18:55:08  <Eddi|zuHause> even funnier, the french word for "work": "travail" has originally meant "torture" :p
18:55:42  <JFBelugas> yeah ... they are so much related...
18:56:10  <TrueBrain> I can see that, yes
18:56:15  <JFBelugas> and the origin of the word "work" in english is "yurk"
18:56:31  <Eddi|zuHause> they explained it on karambolage ;)
19:06:47  *** Chrill [~chrischri@] has joined #openttd
19:11:55  <JFBelugas> configured network for my dad
19:11:57  <JFBelugas> fun...
19:12:05  <JFBelugas> now, expalin him it all
19:12:08  <JFBelugas> VERY fun..
19:12:13  <JFBelugas> bye bye
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19:12:24  <Akoz> O_o
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19:41:03  <TrueBrain> pompiedom
19:52:42  <glx> <Eddi|zuHause> they explained it on karambolage ;) <-- that's on ARTE IIRC
19:52:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yes
19:53:17  <glx> I like the little quizz at the end "where was this filmed ?"
19:53:27  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
19:54:47  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: smatz * r16877 /trunk/src/ (6 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use Subsidy::IsAwarded() instead of testing subsidy's age
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20:23:57  <yorick> TrueBrain :)
20:25:22  <yorick> you should try FML if you like failblog :)
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20:38:06  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
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20:47:01  <Akoz> yorick: I hope these are made up..
20:47:15  <yorick> Akoz: I guess most are
20:47:17  <Akoz> "Today, I handed my PhD dissertation, which I have spent the past year researching and writing full-time. Last night, my roommate set an autocorrect on Word that changed "neither" to "nigger." I didn't notice until after I handed it in. My professor is black. FML"
20:47:30  <Akoz> lal that would so suck :p
20:48:02  <yorick> :-)
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20:50:39  <Akoz> the rest are mostly about sex and blowjobs
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22:38:29  <Eddi|zuHause>
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22:42:04  <glx> that's a funny translation
22:43:24  <Eddi|zuHause> where's the japanese expert?
22:43:58  <Eddi|zuHause> for some more strange pictures
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22:46:01  <glx> hmm sniper suit in metro should be scary
22:51:28  <Eddi|zuHause> picdump-26 is cool, too ;)
22:54:04  <glx> oh the crazy guy trying to steal the gun
22:56:44  <glx> well indeed picdump-26 is weird
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23:01:15  <_ln> @seen Bjarni
23:01:15  <DorpsGek> _ln: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 3 weeks, 0 days, 23 hours, 25 minutes, and 35 seconds ago: <Bjarni> eventually
23:03:39  <Eddi|zuHause> you do that like every week...
23:04:21  <Akoz> hmm
23:07:16  <_ln> not this week and last week as i was in denmark myself, offline.
23:07:28  <Akoz> has this bug been fixed in rc1: When you build a station(a), delete the station, ctrl+build a second station (b) at the same tile and select to make it a new one, and then ctrl+click somewhere near it to expand it you get the name of the first station (a) you built in that list.
23:07:51  *** Azrael- [] has joined #openttd
23:08:36  <Akoz> (and not the name of station b)
23:08:42  <Akoz> anyone knows? O_o
23:08:46  *** DJ-Burtybob [burtybob@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
23:10:54  <Akoz> oh well. I'll add it
23:11:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i have not heard of this bug before
23:11:19  <Akoz> I just found it
23:11:35  <Akoz>
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23:12:52  <Akoz> Im good at finding bugs.. :)
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