Log for #openttd on 25th July 2009:
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00:41:19  <Tekky> I need two additional bits in the map array for storing whether a PBS signal is custom or not, for my new project. I need two bits per tile because one tile may contain two signals. Judging from the documentation, it would be appropriate for me to use bits 12 and 13 in m2. That would be ok, wouldn't it? This is the first time I am using the map array, so I guess it is best to ask to make...
00:41:21  <Tekky> ...sure I am not doing something stupid. :)
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01:04:21  <Aali> Tekky: rest assured that *atleast* one of the devs think you're doing something stupid, especially if it involves signals
01:04:27  <Aali> :)
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07:50:12  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16946 /trunk/src/ (strings.cpp strings_func.h): -Doc: Adding docs for some string parameter manipulation functions.
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08:54:31  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16947 /trunk/src/ (13 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: use TileArea instead of train_tile, trainst_w and trainst_h.
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09:55:41  <HackaLittleBit> mornin
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09:56:54  <TrueBrain> howdie
09:59:22  <HackaLittleBit> TrueBrain: pls check lines 1697 1698 and 1703  train_cmd.cpp need some style improvement :)
10:00:03  <HackaLittleBit> (b->vehstatus&VS_HIDDEN)
10:00:04  <TrueBrain> not a core developer, can't help you there :)
10:00:41  <HackaLittleBit> well maybe Rubidium:
10:00:58  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: got OpenDune running yet? :P
10:01:27  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: haha
10:01:29  <TrueBrain> getting there ;)
10:01:45  <Xaroth> woot :P
10:01:48  * Xaroth can't wait
10:01:56  <TrueBrain> hahaha :)
10:02:06  <TrueBrain> if you in the meantime ask WestWood permission for it
10:02:08  <TrueBrain> ;)
10:02:35  <Xaroth> Didn't they merge like 50 times already?
10:02:45  <TrueBrain> good luck?
10:02:46  <TrueBrain> :)
10:02:49  <Xaroth> git
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10:07:05  <Rubidium> HackaLittleBit: I'm sure you can find more places that need style improvement and that you can make a nice diff out of that ;)
10:07:55  <HackaLittleBit> Ok Ill send you in the end of the day :)
10:08:26  <Alberth> submit it to
10:13:18  <HackaLittleBit> Ok Ok, got the message :) See Yah guys
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10:14:36  <TrueBrain> morning OwenS
10:14:38  <TrueBrain> got any sleep?
10:14:49  <OwenS> I decided I'd just turn the machine off :P
10:14:55  <TrueBrain> hahahaha
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10:25:31  <TrueBrain> once every few weeks HackaLittleBit joins and asks that question
10:25:34  <TrueBrain> he gets the same answer every time
10:25:36  <TrueBrain> and leaves :p
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10:38:44  <Alberth> I have a copy of the sources just for collecting doc string changes, maybe we should suggest something along those lines next time :)
10:40:10  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16948 /trunk/src/ (ai/api/ai_order.cpp station_cmd.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: some code reductions and usage of wrapper functions
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10:54:54  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16949 /trunk/src/ (openttd.h table/settings.h toolbar_gui.cpp viewport.cpp): -Codechange: unify the way the DisplayOption enums are written
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10:56:48  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16950 /trunk/src/viewport.cpp: -Codechange: unduplicate waypoint + station sign drawing
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11:02:27  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16951 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt toolbar_gui.cpp): -Change: order the strings in the options dropdown slightly more logical
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11:33:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16952 /trunk/src/town_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Use a label for the world population in the town directory window.
11:51:54  <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: I am still suprised you haven't told your problems with dune2 :p
11:53:07  <Forked> mmmm.. dune2
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11:55:05  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16953 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: Use SetStringParameters() for simple parameterized strings.
11:57:12  <Alberth> TrueBrain: she doesn't want to spoil your fun :)
11:57:32  <TrueBrain> not many people can do that ;)
11:57:35  <TrueBrain> I respect that :)
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12:12:56  <LadyHawk> [25/7][12:51:47] <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: I am still suprised you haven't told your problems with dune2 :p <<< hmm?
12:13:27  <TrueBrain> well, you keep on saying that :)
12:13:35  <LadyHawk> if ur talking bout that bug, it's such a big one it ruins the gameplay if you know about it.. so i wont say it unless someone really wants to know =P
12:14:44  <TrueBrain> that is what I mean :) I respect that, not many people in here can do that :)
12:14:57  <LadyHawk> lol
12:18:11  <LadyHawk> dune2 is one of the best games of its kind.. it deserves credit, not spoilers =)
12:18:27  <TrueBrain> I totally agree
12:28:42  <TrueBrain> SPAM:
12:28:43  <TrueBrain> B10. A harvester, when full and showing the "Awaiting pickup" message,
12:28:45  <TrueBrain> will sometimes take a very long time before it is picked up.
12:28:46  <TrueBrain> ~~~~
12:28:48  <TrueBrain> S10. The answer isn't, as might be expected, to build more Carryalls.  The
12:28:49  <TrueBrain> problem here is that your system is too close to the minimum required
12:28:51  <TrueBrain> memory.  Try exiting and running from a boot disk with no TSRs loaded.
12:28:52  <TrueBrain> I love thisone :)
12:29:36  <LadyHawk> never noticed the long pickup times
12:29:40  <LadyHawk> i always just build 2 carryals
12:29:50  <LadyHawk> 1 to bring a harvester, the other to drop it off
12:30:18  <TrueBrain> I have had those problems in the past
12:30:20  <TrueBrain> not in DosBox :p
12:30:22  <LadyHawk> in early missions you can get carryals too, block a factory off so only a carryal can take the unit out.. do it often enough and carryal stays
12:30:42  <TrueBrain> yeah, always a good trick .. close a building with other buildings ;)
12:31:04  <TrueBrain> I love the detail the game put in it .. that they took care of things like that :)
12:31:06  <LadyHawk> i never completely block a factory off tho.. sometimes no carryal will come
12:31:13  <TrueBrain> but okay .. in the meantime my vehicles still can't move :s
12:31:37  <LadyHawk> lol
12:31:46  <TrueBrain> they rotate to the top left corner, and that is it
12:31:59  <LadyHawk> i cant remember if they move themselves to attack enemies
12:32:06  <LadyHawk> i dont think they do, do they
12:32:11  <TrueBrain> not that I know of
12:33:17  <LadyHawk> which house do you prefer to play with?
12:33:21  <TrueBrain> Red
12:33:25  <LadyHawk> hehe
12:33:27  <TrueBrain> doesn't matter how or what in a game, I like Red :)
12:34:08  <LadyHawk> i like atreides... but the harkonnen are easiest with their devastators
12:34:32  <LadyHawk> first time i played with them i thougth they were useless cuz they're so slow.. i sent them on a suicide mission
12:34:51  <LadyHawk> when i looked again, both of them were dead but they took half the base with em lol
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12:43:25  <LadyHawk> the lack of grouping units in dune2 gives it a nice strategic movement element to it i think.. it's not just build units and brute force your way through like modern games
12:43:26  <LadyHawk> <3
12:43:39  <TrueBrain> I just read you can group units
12:43:43  <TrueBrain> only that it works more often not :p
12:44:02  <LadyHawk> really?
12:44:11  <TrueBrain> yup
12:44:11  <LadyHawk> how? :O
12:44:16  <TrueBrain> by moving a unit to another unit
12:44:23  <TrueBrain> but they say it only works if another unit is already moving
12:44:27  <TrueBrain> and even that is not sure to work :p
12:44:34  <LadyHawk> ahh
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12:44:48  <LadyHawk> as soon as the unit that moves towards another unit stands still.. it'll stop following it
12:47:44  <LadyHawk> and that would include whenever the first unit changes direction.. it stops for a second
12:47:46  <LadyHawk> i never used that
12:47:47  <LadyHawk> lol
12:50:52  <TrueBrain> haha: //Took this from bochs, i seriously hate these weird bcd opcodes
12:50:59  <TrueBrain> DosBox is funny :)
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13:11:38  <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: btw, did you also know that sonic waves go further when you have speed on Fast? I notice that pretty soon .. gives you a nice ... advantage ;)
13:13:13  <LadyHawk> sonic tanks have the same range as rocket tanks
13:13:23  <TrueBrain> not in Fast ;)
13:13:25  <LadyHawk> which is 1 tile longer range than a rocket turret
13:13:52  <LadyHawk> what's their range in fast then?
13:14:01  <TrueBrain> I believe 2 or 3 tiles longer .. can't remember the details
13:14:28  <TrueBrain> darn, opcode 0x66 in dune2 .. that would suck if that would be really true ...
13:14:36  <LadyHawk> ?
13:15:13  <TrueBrain> opcode 0x66 means dword mode
13:15:32  <LadyHawk> sorry, too technical for me
13:15:41  <TrueBrain> 32bit instead of 16bit ;)
13:17:00  <TrueBrain> I like the simple dynamics of the game
13:17:04  <TrueBrain> units move around when standing still
13:17:06  <TrueBrain> flags move
13:17:14  <TrueBrain> and that for a game of that age ...
13:17:23  <TrueBrain> same for TT, I realised a few days ago
13:17:32  <TrueBrain> there was a lot of bitfucking to get things in a map format
13:17:36  <TrueBrain> yet .. there are moving lifts
13:17:41  <TrueBrain> for just a few houses
13:17:43  <TrueBrain> amazing details :)
13:32:10  <LadyHawk> lol
13:32:10  <Tekky> Command & Conquer is based on Dune 2, isn't it?
13:32:31  <LadyHawk> i dunno, i never got into CC till long after dune2's time period
13:33:12  <TrueBrain> it is what followed out of Dune2 yes
13:33:29  <TrueBrain> the concept is identical
13:33:30  <LadyHawk> the only bit of silly graphics in dune2 is when say a tank is turning its head to fire at an enemy, it fires before the barrel is aimed at it
13:33:31  <Tekky> Yes, I also have very fond memories of Dune 2.
13:33:45  <LadyHawk> but that's so minor
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13:34:23  <TrueBrain> hmmm .. status of my units is displayed wrong ..
13:34:28  <TrueBrain> odd ...
13:34:32  <LadyHawk> ?
13:34:38  <Eddi|zuHause> if dune 2 is the first of its kind, what exactly was dune 1 then?
13:34:45  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: a WHOLE other game
13:34:48  <LadyHawk> dune 1 was nothing like dune 2
13:34:55  <TrueBrain> more like KingQuest ;)
13:34:57  <LadyHawk> dune 1 was more of a storybased adventure game
13:35:06  <Eddi|zuHause> i have never seen dune 1
13:35:12  <TrueBrain> look it up
13:35:14  <TrueBrain> it aint bad :)
13:35:20  <TrueBrain> (for that time)
13:35:25  <LadyHawk> yeah
13:35:37  <LadyHawk> it took me multiple attempts to even figure out how dune1 worked though
13:35:55  <Eddi|zuHause> damn... how do i tell civ4 to use a language from the command line?
13:36:05  <TrueBrain> never played Civ4
13:36:07  <TrueBrain> I try to keep it that way ;)
13:36:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i.e. ignore the language from the config file
13:36:37  <LadyHawk> cant just change it in the config file?
13:36:37  <glx> /? maybe
13:37:26  <Eddi|zuHause> LadyHawk: yes, but i'd have to change it back there afterwards
13:37:39  <Tekky> Dune 1:
13:37:41  <Tekky> Dune 2:
13:37:43  <Eddi|zuHause> <- says i can only override the config file
13:38:08  <LadyHawk> make a .bat file to change it, run game, and on exit change it back? (not sure if batch can do that but i'd assume it can)
13:39:12  <TrueBrain> argh, this is annoying! Everything seems to work, including building a harvest and stuff .. just the unit stats (what it is doing) is wrong, and I can't make vheicles move :p
13:41:44  <TrueBrain> it also generated a slightly different map
13:41:50  <TrueBrain> hahaha, the harvster can't move either :)
13:42:19  <fjb> Maybe you need some spice girls to move them.
13:42:40  <TrueBrain> is 72 percent full and heading back
13:42:42  <TrueBrain> NOT!
13:45:02  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe it is a tiberium harvester, and ended up in the wrong game?
13:45:26  <TrueBrain> those darn quantum effects
13:45:29  <TrueBrain> THEY SHOULD BE PUNISHED!
13:46:11  <Eddi|zuHause> damn... this command line isn't working...
13:47:21  <Eddi|zuHause> i should just write a script that autogenerates the missing language entries...
13:47:33  <TrueBrain> that is the spirit!
13:47:55  <Eddi|zuHause> meaning not translate them, just copy the english text
13:49:49  <TrueBrain> I love this channel .. one person talking about dune2, the other about civ4 .. :)
13:59:59  <LadyHawk> lol
14:00:25  <LadyHawk> last few days is the first time i see anyone talk about other games than ottd
14:00:33  <LadyHawk> cuz of your little project TrueBrain
14:00:34  <LadyHawk> lol
14:00:49  <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: I tend to have that effect ;)
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15:11:07  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16954 /trunk/src/ (52 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: make the Game Options window use the nested widget system.
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15:22:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16955 /trunk/src/lang/ (49 files in 2 dirs): -Fix (r16954): removed a few strings too many from the translations
15:39:21  <Eddi|zuHause> after i figured out how to do XML processing, this
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15:43:55  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16956 /trunk/src/lang/ (51 files in 2 dirs): -Update: 'pre' translate some strings that can't be translated, like {BLACK}{STRING}
15:59:00  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frosch * r16957 /trunk/src/ (settings_gui.cpp window.cpp): -Fix: Trigger the same window repositioning after changing font/language as it is done after resizing the main OpenTTD window.
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16:16:49  <Yexo> In total OpenTTD can only have 512 IDs for all active grf files (including non-overridden original tiles). <- From Aren't all original tiles included, also overriden ones?
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16:56:58  <Belugas> Yexo, including original tiles.
16:57:08  <Belugas> if i remember correctly
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17:19:53  <DaleStan> andythenorth (Pounce message): No. Back vehicles may vary based on the engine, but the reverse is not exposed.
17:19:54  <andythenorth> evening
17:21:50  <andythenorth> bloody pixels :|
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17:29:31  <Alberth> too much red?
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17:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r16958 /trunk/src/lang/ (6 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: english_US - 2 changes by agenthh
17:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: frisian - 54 changes by huddekul
17:45:38  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 272 changes by fumantsu
17:45:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: russian - 8 changes by Lone_Wolf
17:45:39  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: serbian - 59 changes by etran
17:55:03  <TrueBrain> why does linux not like 5000 files in 1 dir :(
17:55:25  <Rubidium> because you're using a file system that doesn't like it
17:55:29  <TrueBrain> XFS
17:57:28  <Rubidium> some FSes use a linked list for maintaining a list of files in a directory, others use a balanced tree
18:03:28  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: tried calling westwood, nobody picked up the phone.
18:03:53  <glx> Xaroth: what do you expect on saturday ?
18:03:57  <Xaroth> glx: SHHHH
18:03:59  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: monday again? :)
18:04:15  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I was kind of serious btw :) If they give permission to make a 1-on-1 clone, I will do my atmost to make it happen :)
18:04:29  <Xaroth> and I'll help!
18:04:36  <TrueBrain> I just generated a few megs of C code, to give that a starting idea ;)
18:05:40  <Xaroth> bit of a bad timing though, one of my bosses would probably know how to best deal with them :P
18:05:55  <TrueBrain> then why is it bad timing?
18:07:02  <Xaroth> he.. just left for 2 weeks for vacation.
18:07:16  <TrueBrain> so in 2 weeks, I expect you to motivate him to make that call ;) Ghehehehehe :p
18:07:42  <Xaroth> he'll never make that call
18:07:45  <Xaroth> but he'll have insight
18:08:08  <TrueBrain> I now generated a lot of asm like C code ... will be a bitch to read through all those files analyzing them :p
18:08:18  <TrueBrain> 5000 files so far, and I just loaded a game and pressed Quit :p
18:09:54  <Xaroth> o_O
18:09:59  <Xaroth> decompiling?
18:10:16  <TrueBrain> you didn't pick on that yet? :p
18:10:39  <TrueBrain> if I use the word: clone, I mean really: clone
18:10:46  <TrueBrain> not some half-baked look-alike
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18:16:30  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: in detail, I created an application that runs a 16bit application via a JIT, generating C code, which is compiled, and executed via a emulator layer. The C code is written to disk and can thereafter be compiled as static code, ready for human .. updating to increase readability ;)
18:17:12  *** OwenS [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
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18:20:47  <Xaroth> ah
18:21:58  <TrueBrain> a bit sick :p
18:22:06  <Xaroth> yeh
18:22:22  <TrueBrain> it is okay, you can say that ;)
18:22:38  <Xaroth> yer dutch, i can't blame you :P
18:22:41  <Alberth> TrueBrain: sounds like fun :)
18:22:46  <TrueBrain> fun it is :)
18:22:50  <Xaroth> .. yer also not the only dutchie who's doing something like that
18:22:52  <TrueBrain> if I would manage to fix this bug where I can't move vehicles :s
18:23:05  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: ghehe :) No suprise there, but do tell?
18:23:20  <Xaroth>
18:23:50  <TrueBrain> that was what I meant with half-baked look-alike :p
18:24:06  <Xaroth> yeh
18:24:16  <TrueBrain> although I have great respect for such projects :)
18:24:29  <Xaroth> it's a fun project, i followed it for a while
18:24:35  <Xaroth> but it lacks the dune feel
18:24:44  <TrueBrain> exactly :)
18:25:22  <TrueBrain> if I ever manage to get this stuff to really work, I have 2 projects I will launch based on it, both dune2 alike .. one webbased, the other a very close look-alike
18:25:44  <Xaroth> I'd more prefer it to be something like ottd, as long as it remains the dune feel
18:25:47  <Xaroth> web based?
18:26:05  <TrueBrain> I once made a prototype of it ... doubt I can find it back .. :p
18:26:18  <TrueBrain> yeah, it is on one of my backup disks ... :p
18:26:25  <Xaroth> heh
18:26:43  <TrueBrain> I once made a proof-of-concept more, which showed a dune-like map and moving vehicles. Fully webbased (javascript, AJAX, the usual)
18:27:16  <Alberth> Don Hopkins is doing that too, but with Simcity. I don't really know what to think of web-based games.
18:27:34  <TrueBrain> WT3 is also a web-application
18:27:42  <TrueBrain> only not driven on PHP, which makes it much more robust :)
18:27:53  <TrueBrain> and the front-end is just an optional component
18:28:07  <TrueBrain> I also once considered it for OpenTTD, but it required too much bandwidth :p
18:28:08  <Alberth> Such a thing web-based, ok. But a game?
18:28:26  <TrueBrain> well, if done correctly, you have a choice: download an application and join the game, or use a website
18:28:56  <TrueBrain> I don't believe in Web2.0, but for such things, it is just nice to toy with :)
18:29:19  <Alberth> I rather fight a computer AI in a stand-alone app :)
18:29:20  <TrueBrain> the idea is more: join via the web to get a look and feel, download the game to really enjoy it :p
18:29:58  <TrueBrain> well, the webdune project will be a MMO
18:30:04  <TrueBrain> so no computer AI fights :p
18:30:09  <TrueBrain> but okay :)
18:30:19  <TrueBrain> first there are other challenges :p
18:31:19  <TrueBrain> like finding which of these 5000 functions fucks up ... or at the very least finding a method to figure that out :p
18:31:46  <Tekky> Is anyone there who is familiar with the internals of YAPF/YAPP? I don't understand the following piece of code in src/yapf/yapf_costrail.hpp:
18:31:48  <Tekky> /* Searching for a safe tile? */
18:31:50  <Tekky> if (HasSignalOnTrackdir(cur.tile, && !IsPbsSignal(GetSignalType(cur.tile, TrackdirToTrack( {
18:31:51  <Tekky> 	end_segment_reason |= ESRB_SAFE_TILE;
18:31:53  <Tekky> }
18:31:54  <Tekky> Shouldn't the tile be considered a safe waiting location if the tile HAS a PBS Signal, instead of NOT HAVING a PBS Signal?
18:33:06  <Tekky> This piece of code has been giving me a headache for several hours already. Any help would be appreciated. :-)
18:33:17  <TrueBrain> clearly the answer is: no
18:33:20  <TrueBrain> but why, don't know :)
18:36:58  <Xaroth> hm
18:37:46  <Xaroth> Cryonetworks was working on a dune MMO a few years ago
18:37:58  <TrueBrain> it all died, not?
18:38:02  <TrueBrain> all dune clones too btw
18:38:08  <TrueBrain> there is one that has some form of activity
18:38:13  <Xaroth> yeh
18:38:19  <TrueBrain> moved to googlecode this year
18:38:20  <Xaroth> d2:tm is still 'alive'
18:38:35  <TrueBrain> I believe it was the other one I mean
18:38:57  <TrueBrain> ah, no, d2:tm
18:38:59  <TrueBrain> ;)
18:39:42  <TrueBrain> oeh, even commits today!
18:41:07  <Xaroth> << another clone
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18:44:50  <TrueBrain> even some form of activity :p
18:46:05  <michi_cc> Tekky: the safe tile is the tile *in front of* the pbs signal, not the signal tile itself. for block signals, the path stops at the signal tile itself to work better with two-sided signals.
18:47:07  <Tekky> michi_cc: Ah, thank you very much!
18:47:20  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: wouldn't it more senseful to rebuild something from the ground up, rather than trying to figure out old 16 bit code :P
18:47:51  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I talked that over with a friend of mine. We established it would take 4 days of 8 hours for the two of us to do that (at least, the base-code for it)
18:48:00  <TrueBrain> but it would have one major flaw: the exact specs of dune2 are missing
18:48:07  <TrueBrain> and what I see with all those clones there are now, they all miss that
18:48:16  <Xaroth> true
18:48:22  <TrueBrain> and dune2 is such a crappy game, that you either have to do it identical, or do it compeltely different
18:48:34  <TrueBrain> I mean: right mouse CENTERS the map ... come on!
18:48:45  <TrueBrain> the only reason we accept that, is because it is dune2 :)
18:48:59  <Xaroth> well yeh
18:49:04  <TrueBrain> and you know ... this is more fun ;)
18:49:08  <TrueBrain> looking how they did it :)
18:49:13  <Xaroth> true, but why not combine both?
18:49:24  <TrueBrain> well, maybe that happens in time
18:49:36  <TrueBrain> but IDA fucks up too often to use it as reference .. so this method will be a better reference model :)
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18:51:16  <TrueBrain> the only downside of my method, is that it has more legal problems :p
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18:53:28  <Xaroth> well what you're doing now is a proof-of-concept
18:53:45  <Xaroth> as long as you don't use it, yer home free :P
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18:55:25  <Tekky> michi_cc: Is my understanding correct that in the original implementation of YAPF by KUDr, the YAPF segments were not interrupted by signals, but in order to implement PBS, you split up YAPF segments at signals by introducing ESRB_SAFE_TILE as an end_segment_reason? Or am I mistaken?
18:57:10  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: you're or you are ... yer reads really annoying
18:57:17  <TrueBrain> like a jar, but then different
18:57:21  <Xaroth> heh
18:57:24  <Xaroth> too much time with brits :(
18:57:38  <TrueBrain> no normal human should ever write 'yer'
18:57:57  <Xaroth> brits aren't normal humans.
18:58:00  <TrueBrain> ;)
18:58:11  <TrueBrain> you picked up on that .. hmm .. ;) Hehe :)
18:58:42  <TrueBrain> anyway .. I first need to fix this weird and strange bug I am having, then I will see where this project goes :)
18:58:49  <Xaroth> I wonder how hard it would be to create a D2 clone in C#
18:58:51  <TrueBrain> I most likely write a few routines which make the C code more readable :p
18:58:56  <TrueBrain> why C#?
18:59:03  <Xaroth> saves me months of learning new language, etc
18:59:07  <TrueBrain> well, I would maybe consider it if it wasn't a Microsoft shit thingy
18:59:21  <Xaroth> not for real, as concept thing
18:59:40  <Xaroth> never bothered making games in C#.. heck, never bothered making games period
18:59:54  <TrueBrain> games are much harder than applications
19:00:34  <Xaroth> exactly
19:00:49  <Xaroth> C/C++ is also much harder to learn than C# :P
19:00:49  <TrueBrain> and if you know C#, C is not such a big step
19:00:51  <TrueBrain> only different :p
19:00:58  <Xaroth> its not that hard
19:01:06  <Xaroth> if i look at the ottd code i can understand at least half of it
19:01:10  <TrueBrain> if you know one programming language, you know them all, I always say
19:01:14  <TrueBrain> exactly
19:01:20  <TrueBrain> it only takes time to get to know the syntax
19:01:25  <TrueBrain> and then the language specific shit
19:01:35  <TrueBrain> but you can mostly do without it too :) Just .. it is a bit slower or more ugly :p
19:01:59  <TrueBrain> it is more like if you know how you need to think to put an idea in code, the languag eis no longer important
19:02:21  <Xaroth> yep
19:02:30  <TrueBrain> I can program in like 10 languages .. not that I know them all that good or what ever, but simply because of the principe above
19:03:00  <Xaroth> I can probably manage in 10 languages, as long as it's normal stuff and not fancy stuff :P
19:03:12  <TrueBrain> I can most likely program in C#, never tried it though .. :p :p
19:03:18  <Xaroth> don't bother :)
19:03:23  <TrueBrain> won't :)
19:03:36  <TrueBrain> I once did a few weeks a bit of JAVA .. will try to stay away from that too :p
19:03:42  * Xaroth shudders
19:03:53  <Xaroth> had a course of that at college
19:04:00  <Xaroth> NEVER AGAIN.
19:04:17  <Xaroth> (both the course and the language)
19:04:21  <TrueBrain> the language D is also ... pretty horrible
19:04:28  <TrueBrain> that is: it is much better, but it takes much longer to write anything in
19:05:05  <TrueBrain> (pre and post conditions ...)
19:05:08  <Ammler> D=Dutch?
19:05:14  <TrueBrain> no
19:05:15  <TrueBrain> D
19:05:17  <Ammler> :-)
19:05:17  <TrueBrain> like C
19:05:19  <TrueBrain> just D
19:05:29  <Xaroth> F# .. also a language i'm staying away from
19:05:37  <TrueBrain>
19:06:53  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: Microsoft ....
19:08:02  <Xaroth> yep
19:08:07  <Xaroth> MS Research
19:08:10  <Xaroth> or.. used to at least
19:09:43  <TrueBrain> hmm, it wasn't D that was so horrible
19:09:49  <TrueBrain> D is very C++ alike, just with new features
19:10:02  <TrueBrain> (not for the better)
19:13:15  <Xaroth> what the, i even have visual studio express C++ installed on this machine
19:13:20  *** andythenorth [] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
19:13:43  <TrueBrain> and I can't find the languag eI mean ..
19:13:46  <TrueBrain> I worked with it for a bit ...
19:13:56  <TrueBrain> in every function define you had to say what you expect to go in and out
19:15:49  <Alberth> pascal ?
19:15:54  <TrueBrain> haha, no
19:16:58  <TrueBrain> I thought it was flex
19:17:00  <TrueBrain> but ..
19:17:27  <TrueBrain> can't find a webpage about it :p
19:17:33  <TrueBrain> besides the reference to adobe
19:17:35  <TrueBrain> which is not wha tI meant :p
19:19:05  <TrueBrain> I hate my memory :'(
19:21:35  <Alberth> flex is a scanner generator afaik, has no in or out stuff
19:21:53  <TrueBrain> flex is also a lexer, yes
19:23:28  *** OwenS [] has joined #openttd
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19:23:55  <AdditionalData> Hi
19:23:59  <TrueBrain> hello AdditionalData
19:24:23  <AdditionalData> I see there's a custom bridgeheads branch
19:24:32  <AdditionalData> A new one :D
19:24:51  <AdditionalData> are the developers planning to bring this into trunk at some point? :D
19:25:02  <TrueBrain> maybe
19:25:03  <TrueBrain> maybe not
19:25:05  <TrueBrain> :)
19:25:16  <Yexo> where did ou find this 'new' branch?
19:25:26  <Yexo> the only one I know of is 2 years old
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19:35:40  <glx> [21:13:17] <Xaroth> what the, i even have visual studio express C++ installed on this machine <-- worse I have 2 visual studio express c++ installed :)
19:38:00  *** Nite_Owl [] has joined #openttd
19:38:22  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
19:38:27  <TrueBrain> howdie Nite_Owl
19:38:33  <AdditionalData> sorry
19:38:39  <Nite_Owl> Hello TrueBrain
19:38:44  <AdditionalData> Yexo: On the wiki
19:38:56  <glx> don't trust the wiki :)
19:39:00  <AdditionalData>
19:39:07  <AdditionalData> look at the revision
19:39:36  <TrueBrain> that is Apache WebDAV .. it shows the HEAD revision on ALL pages
19:39:36  <glx> 16958 I guess
19:39:39  <Yexo> AdditionalData: that's the latest revision from the complete repo, custombridgeheads is just a part of that
19:40:07  <TrueBrain>
19:40:07  <Rubidium> 2007-03-11
19:40:09  <TrueBrain> try that url ;)
19:40:12  <Yexo> the latest change in custombridgeheads was r9109
19:41:37  <AdditionalData> oh nuts
19:41:50  <AdditionalData> i failed =[
19:42:00  <TrueBrain> well .. it looks more like we failed to finish that branch :)
19:42:08  <AdditionalData> so what new features are developers interested in/working on?
19:43:44  <Rubidium> is "people who update the wiki" a feature?
19:44:28  <Alberth> is "people who refactor code" a feature?
19:44:41  <TrueBrain> is "people who work on other projects" a feature?
19:45:16  <Rubidium> Alberth: only the results of the refactor
19:45:32  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: that's more a problem, see e.g. custombridgeheads and cargodest
19:45:57  <TrueBrain> true true
19:46:15  * TrueBrain is happy he finished NoAI .. else it would have been in that group ;)
19:46:37  <Yexo> @seen celestar
19:46:37  <DorpsGek> Yexo: celestar was last seen in #openttd 13 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, 48 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <Celestar> morning
19:46:44  <Yexo> :(
19:47:18  <Alberth> Rubidium: that's the next step :p
19:50:19  <Yexo> TrueBrain: did you do any work on nail recently or is is completely dead?
19:50:41  <TrueBrain> Yexo: for now it is dead; in order for it to become functional in NoAI, it needs so many functions
19:50:45  <TrueBrain> I don't even want to think about it
19:50:50  <TrueBrain> (too many people use all the power of Squirrel)
19:51:14  <TrueBrain> but okay .. the whole tree handling of NAIL I reused in my 16bit thingy, but that is of no real use to you :p
19:51:31  <OwenS> Whats wrong with Squirrel anyway?
19:51:37  <TrueBrain> ever looked at the code?
19:51:42  <TrueBrain> and it has bugs
19:51:43  <Yexo> what's not wrong with it?
19:52:18  <OwenS> TrueBrain: No. If I need a scripting language, I usually dig out QtScript. Before Qt was open sourced, I'd dig out Lua :p
19:52:51  <TrueBrain> well, Squirrel is the object oriented variant of lua
19:52:54  <TrueBrain> only less ... pretty :)
19:53:05  <OwenS> Lua can be object oriented pretty easily
19:53:14  <TrueBrain> not in any real way :p
19:53:26  <OwenS> It can. I've done it. Just requires a small ammount of glue code
19:53:53  <TrueBrain> the ways I have seen, can't be considered real :)
19:53:57  <TrueBrain> no overloading, no ..
19:54:01  <TrueBrain> well .. what Squirrel supplies ;)
19:54:11  <OwenS> Overloading is quite easy :-P
19:54:16  <TrueBrain> extended, sorry
19:54:27  <Alberth> @seen Terkhen
19:54:27  <DorpsGek> Alberth: Terkhen was last seen in #openttd 26 weeks, 1 day, 23 hours, 18 minutes, and 13 seconds ago: <Terkhen> good evening people
19:54:56  <Alberth> not a regular :)
19:55:13  <OwenS> x = class(BaseClass); function x:new(args) self.super:new(); blah; end; was my syntax
19:55:28  <TrueBrain> I prefer Squirrel :)
19:55:39  <OwenS> I prefer ECMAScript :P
19:55:58  <OwenS> In spite of it's sucky name
20:00:54  <AdditionalData> so we're going to be waiting a while for custom bridge heads?
20:01:04  <TrueBrain> AdditionalData: or you might feel up to the task?
20:01:21  <AdditionalData> Heh, I wish I was as awesome as that :(
20:01:21  *** ecke [~ecke@] has quit [Quit: ecke]
20:01:33  <TrueBrain> become as Barney, become that awesome!
20:01:42  <TrueBrain> and in the end of the day you just say Legen
20:01:46  <TrueBrain> (WAIT FOR IT!)
20:01:48  <TrueBrain> dary!
20:01:54  <AdditionalData> heh.
20:02:02  <AdditionalData> I've got a book on C
20:02:08  <AdditionalData> but i've not read it much :(
20:02:10  <TrueBrain> "the day I stopped being sad and become awesome!"
20:02:13  <AdditionalData> I really should..
20:02:23  <TrueBrain> C is, after reading a bit, very much just doing
20:02:29  <Yexo> AdditionalData: since (to my knowledge) currently nobody is working on it, you'll have to wait quite a while :p
20:02:30  <AdditionalData> but isn't OpenTTD mostly C++ now?
20:02:36  <TrueBrain> yup
20:02:40  <AdditionalData> Ah
20:02:47  <TrueBrain> C and C++ do not differ that much; just a layer of classes and dirty tricks :)
20:02:51  <OwenS> You need to know C to know C++ :P
20:02:54  <AdditionalData> oh
20:02:59  <AdditionalData> so knowing C will be enough?
20:03:14  <TrueBrain> enough, no, but a good starting step
20:03:18  <AdditionalData> Ah
20:03:21  <AdditionalData> I'll try
20:03:24  <AdditionalData> but it will be a while :)
20:03:26  <Yexo> if you know C pretty well, you can read the OpenTTD code pretty easily
20:03:39  <TrueBrain> we have the time :)
20:04:04  <Yexo> even if you take very long, it's faster then waiting for the mysterious 'somebody' to pick up the work
20:04:07  <AdditionalData> i'll get to grips with C to a good level and then make some small patches to get used to all of this :)
20:04:19  <TrueBrain> that is how most of us start :)
20:04:34  <AdditionalData> then if i know enough i will try to make the custom bridge heads patch :)
20:04:45  <Yexo> hehe, m first patches for openttd were some spelling mistakes in the comments :)
20:04:46  <Nite_Owl> too many jokes missed due to slow typing
20:04:54  <TrueBrain> Nite_Owl: mwhahaha
20:05:16  * Yexo needs a new keyboard, my y doesn't work well :(
20:05:30  <AdditionalData> once you get a new one
20:05:36  <AdditionalData> use the old one to hit things with
20:06:04  <Nite_Owl> There was a 6 million dollar man reference there but I could not get it out fast enough
20:06:05  <TrueBrain> AdditionalData: what is your address? :p :p :p
20:06:15  <glx> Yexo: but you placed it 3 times
20:06:44  <Yexo> yes, it works if I press the key hard, but when I type normally without paying attention to it, I regurarly miss it
20:07:02  <glx> looks like the n on my old keyboard
20:08:07  <AdditionalData> TrueBrain: ;)
20:08:15  <TrueBrain> you should have used ;)
20:08:17  <TrueBrain> but fair enough :)
20:08:25  <AdditionalData> haha
20:08:41  <AdditionalData> what books did you use to start on C truebrain?
20:08:50  <TrueBrain> I never read any book
20:08:58  <AdditionalData> I have a C For Dummies (the really thick version, about 750 pages)
20:09:00  <AdditionalData> willt hat do?
20:09:00  <TrueBrain> when I had to, I refused ... passed that class with a A+
20:09:15  <AdditionalData> ah
20:09:18  <Yexo> AdditionalData: just reading won't get you far, but it's a good start
20:09:22  <TrueBrain> you can read all you want, but in the end you need to do it yourself
20:09:25  <AdditionalData> Yeah
20:09:29  <AdditionalData> It gives you examples
20:09:32  <TrueBrain> write .. write a lot
20:09:35  <AdditionalData> Then it teaches you what the code means
20:09:37  <TrueBrain> if you have the brains, you pick up soon enough
20:09:39  <Yexo> as soon as you have a basic grip about programming, start building some simple programs
20:09:52  <Yexo> even if it's just creating a hello world program yourself instead of reading about it
20:10:00  <AdditionalData> I got the code for an OpenGL program once
20:10:06  <AdditionalData> that made a triangle
20:10:08  <TrueBrain> I only use books (read:, when I want to do something I don't know how :p
20:10:26  <AdditionalData> I modified it to create many triangles :)
20:10:26  <glx> AdditionalData: everything is triangle in 3D world :)
20:10:37  <AdditionalData> i typed in a number
20:10:39  <AdditionalData> e.g 3
20:10:44  <AdditionalData> and it would make that many :)
20:11:33  <AdditionalData> still
20:11:57  <AdditionalData> i'd better get to work ;)
20:12:00  <OwenS> glx: On a Sega Saturn everything is a quad :P
20:12:15  <OwenS> Aww I'm temporarily musicless =(
20:12:26  <TrueBrain> I read muscleless
20:12:27  <AdditionalData> The very early Nvidia cards used quads
20:12:30  <TrueBrain> and wondered how that would be possible
20:12:42  <AdditionalData> like NV1, NV3
20:12:44  <TrueBrain> OwenS: use streaming readio
20:12:45  <OwenS> AdditionalData: And therefore so did the Saturn :P
20:12:46  <TrueBrain> radio
20:13:01  <OwenS> TrueBrain: For now it will have to do =(
20:13:22  * Yexo wonders what is wrong with streaming radio
20:13:34  <glx> TrueBrain: stay in space for too long without doing muscular activities :)
20:13:34  <TrueBrain> Yexo: Caz repeats too many songs too often
20:13:37  <TrueBrain> and the rest talks too much
20:13:44  <TrueBrain> glx: but then how did he type? :p
20:14:00  <AdditionalData> OwenS: Youtube?
20:14:25  <Yexo> TrueBrain: how do you know he typed? Maybe someone types everything for him :p
20:14:32  <TrueBrain> true true
20:14:34  <TrueBrain> k, problem solved
20:15:14  <glx> this chan is insane
20:15:22  <glx> :)
20:15:23  <TrueBrain> glx: and NOW you figure out?
20:15:32  <AdditionalData> what's your preffered compilers on windows guys?
20:15:32  <TrueBrain> how many years have you been here?
20:15:36  <TrueBrain> AdditionalData: linux
20:15:47  <glx> I have no preference
20:15:51  <AdditionalData> what's wrong with windows?
20:15:55  <TrueBrain> Microsoft
20:16:02  <glx> I use g++, msvc 2005 and msvc 2008
20:16:10  <AdditionalData> I keep trying to go back to Ubuntu
20:16:19  <AdditionalData> But ATI drivers are terrible on Linux
20:16:22  <OwenS> AdditionalData: 22.5kHz audio at a stupidly low bitrate is noise, not music
20:16:27  <Yexo> I like the visual studio ide, but gcc/g++ as compiler is fine
20:16:43  <AdditionalData> OwenS: High Quality mode has better sound quality
20:16:45  <glx> AdditionalData: "on Linux" is not needed :)
20:16:49  <TrueBrain> I bought an nVidia to use with Linux
20:16:51  <TrueBrain> yes, ATI sucks ;)
20:17:09  <OwenS> AdditionalData: Yes. it also requires downloading video to go with it. And searching for what to listen to
20:17:33  <AdditionalData> OwenS: It's good for that one song you got stuck in your head.
20:17:50  <AdditionalData> OwenS: There are also playlists availiable
20:18:09  <OwenS> Oh. And it involves the monstrosity called Flash.
20:18:24  <AdditionalData> I guess if you don't like flash
20:18:55  <glx> OwenS: try dailymotion with firefox 3.5, may not require flash :)
20:22:00  <AdditionalData> glx: Seems to need flash
20:22:27  <OwenS> Hmm... can someone quickly spot me the netmask for a /20? :P
20:22:43  <TrueBrain> euh .. /24 =
20:22:45  <TrueBrain> so 4 bits less
20:22:57  <AdditionalData> ...My brain just exploded
20:23:00  <TrueBrain> 0xFF becomes 0xF0
20:23:08  <TrueBrain> 0xFFFFF000 ;)
20:23:14  <AdditionalData> I have a book on assembly too
20:23:19  <AdditionalData> but I haven't read that either :P
20:23:47  <OwenS> Good point... Just shove 0xF0 into speedcrunch
20:23:58  <TrueBrain> :p :p :p
20:24:16  <OwenS> My network runs on the somewhat awkward :p
20:24:24  <TrueBrain> hahaha
20:24:32  <TrueBrain> afraid you will need more than 256 hosts? :p
20:24:37  <TrueBrain> 254, sorry :p
20:24:51  <OwenS> 168.192 is a /16 :P
20:24:57  <TrueBrain> 192.168, yes
20:25:16  <TrueBrain> (at least, if you refer to the private range :p)
20:25:20  <TrueBrain> 10 is a /8
20:25:40  <OwenS> I used to run but I had to change to 172.16 because of a reason which shows why we need IPv6: Conflict with the other end of a VPN tunnel...
20:25:59  <SpComb> quite
20:26:04  <TrueBrain> I use 10.101.4 / 24 ...
20:26:10  <TrueBrain> I doubt that would ever conflict with any VPN :p
20:26:16  <SpComb> maybe
20:26:22  <SpComb> if the VPN uses, for instance
20:26:26  <TrueBrain> true ..
20:26:29  <TrueBrain> I would flame them
20:26:30  <TrueBrain> but possible
20:26:52  <OwenS> I'm soon gonna be fragmenting the 172.16 block anyway for MY VPN tunnels (The IPv4 addresses in them anyway)
20:26:58  <TrueBrain> even then it won't be a real problem SpComb
20:27:07  <TrueBrain> as long as their hosts aren't inside / 24
20:27:27  <TrueBrain> (smaller masks get priority in routing)
20:27:29  <OwenS> Because of poor error reporting from their VPN software the problem went unresolved for quite some time
20:27:54  <TrueBrain> just don't try a two-way VPN :P
20:28:03  <TrueBrain> oeh, this channel found yet another subject :)
20:28:48  <OwenS> When I get my new router, I'm gonna be running a tonne of VLans :p
20:29:06  <TrueBrain> why?
20:29:10  <TrueBrain> you have THAT many computers at home?
20:29:16  <SpComb> but generally, 10.x.y.z only gives you 16 bits of randomness
20:29:24  <TrueBrain> (I use virtualization software, and even I don't reach the 16+ hosts)
20:29:44  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Partly because I don't trust WPA :p
20:29:53  <TrueBrain> hehe
20:29:58  <TrueBrain> fair enough
20:30:03  <TrueBrain> I have a VERY strict filter on my router
20:30:09  <TrueBrain> and a closed off internal network
20:30:38  <TrueBrain> (so wlan devices can use the internet (if I allow them), but never the internal network)
20:30:41  <OwenS> Four VLans: One for servers, one for local machines, one for wireless machines, and one for wireless machines which don't talk WPA+Radius but only WPA-PSK
20:30:50  <glx> AdditionalData: doesn't require a plugin to read videos
20:30:54  <Alberth> OwenS: 0xf0 = 255 - 15 = 240
20:31:03  <TrueBrain> Alberth: really? :p
20:31:18  <TrueBrain> sorry, that should be obvious, not?
20:31:46  <TrueBrain> maybe I have been working too much with bits lately .... :p
20:32:04  <Alberth> maybe it is the time of day, it took me 15 seconds to figure that out :p
20:32:11  <TrueBrain> @base 16 10 f0
20:32:11  <DorpsGek> TrueBrain: 240
20:32:17  <TrueBrain> 5 seconds, if you really need to know ;)
20:32:27  <Alberth> nah, too easy
20:32:32  <TrueBrain> :)
20:34:47  <Alberth> hmm, my viewport widget is not cooperating this evening
20:37:58  <Rubidium> Alberth: slap is really hard :)
20:38:32  <Alberth> I need to shake the whole tree
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20:38:54  <Alberth> but first it should work :)
20:41:52  <TrueBrain> this is weird ... a file is not flushed to the disk before the application segfaults
20:41:56  <TrueBrain> while I tell it: fflush(fp);
20:42:13  <glx> not nice
20:42:36  <glx> especially if you need the last lines to understand the crash
20:43:27  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: fflush doesn't guarantee stuff to be written to the disk
20:43:37  <TrueBrain> clearly ... I assumed it would :(
20:43:43  <Rubidium> you need fsync/fdatasync for that
20:44:46  <TrueBrain> didn't help :(
20:45:52  *** AdditionalData [] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!]
20:46:04  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Wha? Your OS isn't being posixly correct
20:46:17  <TrueBrain> it is also not a nice crash my app experience
20:46:37  <TrueBrain> (complete stack corruption .. in the backtrace are funcitons like 0x04)
20:47:06  <Rubidium> could it be that the fsync/fwhatever isn't called at all?
20:47:13  <OwenS> Or is called but with crap?
20:47:25  <TrueBrain> fsync(fileno(fp))
20:47:28  <TrueBrain> nope, should be fine
20:47:31  <TrueBrain> possible the timer kicks in
20:47:58  <OwenS> sync(3)
20:48:04  <OwenS> (Thats a man reference :P )
20:48:22  <OwenS> You'll know it's occured because your disks will grind :P
20:50:46  * OwenS installs GCC inside his DNS server zone
20:50:59  <TrueBrain> oeh ... buffer overflows
20:51:00  <TrueBrain> YEAH!
20:51:19  <OwenS> Haven't you heard? They're out of fashion :p
20:54:55  <OwenS> "-bash: wget: command not found"
20:55:18  <OwenS> I'm dissapointed that wget isn't in the base zone image and that I have to do a "pkg install SUNWwget"
20:56:09  <TrueBrain> you know
20:56:13  <TrueBrain> I am SO dissapointed
20:56:14  <TrueBrain> I would call them
20:56:17  <TrueBrain> and tell them exactly that
20:56:19  <TrueBrain> :p
20:56:26  * TrueBrain hugs OwenS
20:56:30  <OwenS> lol
20:58:19  <glx> OwenS: and curl is not installed ?
21:04:59  <OwenS> glx: nope
21:13:15  <Xaroth> glx: wtf do you need 2x VSE C++ for?
21:13:57  <Yexo> Xaroth: I use vs200 normally, and vs2005 to load crash dumps
21:14:26  <Yexo> for some reason I can't do that in 2008, no idea if that's my fault or a limitation of the software in some way
21:14:55  <Xaroth> a
21:15:29  <glx> 2008 can load crash dump too
21:16:22  <glx> I have 2005 and 2008 to check openttd-useful :)
21:16:47  <Yexo> hmm, now you mention that, I should update that
21:17:03  <TrueBrain> damn, I can't ifnd the last 2 enemies in snipes :(
21:17:19  <TrueBrain> (too much OpenTTD talk going on in here)
21:17:20  *** FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
21:18:33  <glx> oh I should update too :)
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21:24:25  <OwenS> OK Sun, you really need to work on your packaging. MySQL headers are in package SUNWsfwhea. Completely logical, no?
21:24:52  <TrueBrain> sfwhea ... Sun Fun Wealth Hence Excentric Affective?
21:25:23  <OwenS> Sun FreeWare HEAders apparently
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21:26:31  <OwenS> OMG powerdns configure finished!
21:26:47  <TrueBrain> at least you pick decent software
21:26:59  <OwenS> You use PowerDNS also? =)
21:27:15  <TrueBrain> yup .. all external NS servers run PowerDNS
21:27:27  <OwenS> Excuse me a moment while I bash Solaris for the  "gcc-dev" package not pulling in gmake
21:27:27  <TrueBrain> (internal it is a different story)
21:27:57  <TrueBrain> I rewrote my jump/call/ret system ... but now it tends to switch cs/ip
21:28:00  <OwenS> My external ones run BIND I think. I don't know; I have my VPS provider handle that :P
21:28:29  <TrueBrain> I am a VPS provider :p
21:28:31  <TrueBrain> ghehehe
21:29:02  <OwenS> One who sels VPS space? :P
21:29:09  <TrueBrain> and more, yes
21:29:36  <OwenS> Hail me when you host Solaris VPS's; Linode are nice but Solaris support would rock :P
21:29:47  <TrueBrain> never tried :p
21:30:04  <OwenS> It's possible to run it as both a Xen dom0 and domU
21:30:13  <TrueBrain> ESX virtualization ;)
21:30:27  <OwenS> That works also but I prefer Xen :p
21:30:36  <TrueBrain> Xen has such a poor IO performance
21:30:41  <TrueBrain> that I don't want it on any machine anymore
21:30:47  <TrueBrain> we removed it with such a big slam ...
21:30:57  <Xaroth> ESX ftw
21:31:02  <Alberth> Good night
21:31:05  <TrueBrain> night Alberth
21:31:07  <OwenS> I don't have IO performance issues and my VPS is running Zen
21:31:09  <OwenS> Xen**
21:31:11  <Xaroth> and we use Bind primarily
21:31:13  <TrueBrain> Xen only works 'well' if you install the IO drivers in the VPS itself
21:31:25  <OwenS> ../../ math.h: No such file or directory
21:31:27  <OwenS> OH COME ON
21:31:29  <TrueBrain> if that fails, or when it is not supported, IO performance drops with 50%
21:31:31  <Xaroth> but I configured our bind servers to 'listen' to a MyDNS server we use on an ISPConfig machine for our 'friends' sites.
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21:32:25  <OwenS> pkg install SUNWlibm it is. I do wish ipkg Zones started slightly less minimal :p
21:34:41  <TrueBrain> hmm .. exit(0)
21:34:47  <TrueBrain> I would expect that an application terminates immediatly ..
21:36:17  <Rubidium> nah, it'll at least run at_exit or whatever it's called
21:38:00  <TrueBrain> pff .. too many files .. too much IO ...
21:38:20  <Xaroth> hm, i wonder how easy it would be to get G15 LCD support for ottd :o
21:38:31  <TrueBrain> what is it?
21:38:41  <Xaroth> Logitech G15 keyboard.. has a LCD screen
21:38:42  * Xaroth has a G15
21:38:48  <KenjiE20> Xaroth: why stop there?
21:38:55  <KenjiE20> G19 support, extra viewport :P
21:39:09  <Xaroth> Buy me a G19 then
21:39:21  <KenjiE20> yea, right after I get one :)
21:39:32  <OwenS> Hmm.. Perhaps the reason configure is complaining is because you said libresolve not libresolv
21:47:38  <TrueBrain> bah bah bah bah
21:47:46  <TrueBrain> even my new calling system doesn't make dune2 move those DARN VEHICLES!
21:48:06  <TrueBrain> also map generation is still wrong ..
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21:53:56  * OwenS constructs MySQL zone (To serve up PowerDNS domains & other such stuff)
21:58:00  <OwenS> At least I don't have to compile anything this time!  =P
21:59:21  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
21:59:36  * OwenS ponders why zlogin would let you connect to a nonbooted zone's console
21:59:38  <TrueBrain> I am slowly optimizing the code so it becomes more readable (the code that is exported, that is)
21:59:53  <OwenS> Hehe
22:00:20  <TrueBrain>         emu_int(0x21, 0x000C);
22:00:22  <TrueBrain>         // Most likely jumps to 1000:000C
22:00:23  <TrueBrain> ;)
22:00:37  <OwenS> Haha
22:00:50  <OwenS> Thats not helpful. But without code it never will be :P
22:01:02  <TrueBrain> it is better than nothing :)
22:01:19  <OwenS> And wouldn't the petition for the Dune clone/etc have to go to EA now?
22:01:40  <TrueBrain> oeh ... if you are right, I have a few ways in to EA ...
22:01:52  <OwenS> Well EA hovered up Westwood
22:01:59  <TrueBrain> I haven;t looked into it
22:02:00  <TrueBrain> not at all
22:02:24  <TrueBrain> EALA (Electronic Arts Los Angeles)
22:02:26  <TrueBrain> it is called now
22:02:40  <Xaroth> yeh, one of the EA depts
22:02:52  <OwenS> EALA is an agglomeration of them and other EA depts
22:03:45  <TrueBrain> didn't EA release games as open source?
22:03:59  <Xaroth> they did?
22:04:23  <OwenS> I don't think they did, but can't you now download C&C1 and RA1 legally?
22:04:45  <OwenS> And I know they redirected the C&C1/RA1/TSun/RA2 Westwood Online servers to XWIS
22:06:03  <TrueBrain> ah, no, Id Software did that
22:06:09  <TrueBrain> I shouldn't mix up those 2 companies :p
22:06:19  <OwenS> They're quite different :p
22:06:25  <OwenS> Incidentally, Id recently got bought
22:06:37  <TrueBrain> k .. this week I will write an email to my EA contacts
22:06:39  <TrueBrain> see what they advise
22:07:09  <OwenS> "ZeniMax Media Acquires id Software" Yeah
22:07:25  <OwenS> ZeniMax being the Fallout developers
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22:12:07  <TrueBrain> I am _very_ annoyed by the fact Dune2 doesn't do what it is supposed to do .. and more that I have NO CLUE how to trace the problem :p
22:12:36  <OwenS> Hehe... The worst type of bug. Check more instructions work correctly? :p
22:13:03  <TrueBrain> I doubled checked all of them
22:13:11  <TrueBrain> all tests I did come back positive
22:13:27  <OwenS> As I said, check more instructions :p
22:13:35  <TrueBrain> I have no more instructions to check
22:14:01  <OwenS> You sure?! I know the ridiculous size of the x86 instruction set
22:14:14  <TrueBrain> 252 instructions + a few
22:14:46  <TrueBrain> and a few not implemented
22:14:49  <TrueBrain> so say, 200 real instructions
22:14:55  <TrueBrain> my test-set checks 170 of them
22:15:05  <Xaroth> must be in one of the remaining 30 then :P
22:15:06  <TrueBrain> the last 30 are not testable ;)
22:15:27  <OwenS> They are in some way ;-)
22:15:27  <TrueBrain> well, I guess they are tested, just not directly :p
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22:15:29  <TrueBrain> (prefixes ...)
22:15:34  <OwenS> Aah
22:15:46  <TrueBrain> okay, not completely true .. I don't test all 170
22:15:56  <TrueBrain> inc ax works, so inc <other register> works too :p
22:15:56  <OwenS> I am so glad my architecture doesn't have prefixes
22:16:00  <TrueBrain> (simply because they have to :p)
22:16:49  <TrueBrain> oh, and I didn't test NOP :p
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22:19:19  <TrueBrain> it doesn't happen too often that I simply have no clue :(
22:20:13  <TrueBrain> AlleyCat is also not doing much :p
22:20:24  <OwenS> AlleyCat?
22:20:30  <TrueBrain> yes :)
22:23:36  <Tekky> Is AlleyCat an old DOS game?
22:23:41  <TrueBrain> yup
22:24:15  <Tekky> I think I played that about 20 years ago, the name rings a bell.
22:24:42  <Nite_Owl> How about 'Sword of the Samurai'
22:25:02  <Tekky> I love that game, I have it on my hard disk :)
22:25:15  <Nite_Owl> me too
22:25:16  <Tekky> I used to play that game a lot 15 years ago.
22:26:16  <TrueBrain> haha, for AlleyCat I need to program the PIT .. which is a true bitch :)
22:26:33  <Tekky> My favorite game of all time is UFO: Enemy Unknown (European name)/XCOM: UFO Defense (American Name).
22:26:46  <TrueBrain> never played either (Samurai and UFO)
22:27:16  <Nite_Owl> the individual dueling samurai part of that game was done by a young Sid Meier
22:27:17  <Tekky> Besides OpenTTD, of course. :)
22:28:12  <Nite_Owl> I have XCOM on my hard drive too
22:30:07  <Tekky> I find the melee mode more interesting in Sword of the Samurai.However, what I like most about Sword of the Samurai is the combination of all these game modes: Tactical Duel, Melee and Army mode combined with the overall strategic mode.
22:30:45  <Tekky> Covert Action by Sid Meier is also one of my favorite games.
22:33:55  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
22:35:19  * Nite_Owl will Google it
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22:44:14  <DragoonJett> What is output preservation
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22:45:22  <DragoonJett> Nevermind
22:55:57  <TrueBrain> good night all
22:56:26  <Rubidium> night TrueBrain
22:58:04  <OwenS> night
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23:31:30  <Nite_Owl> I need to feed - later all
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23:41:17  <Aali> now this is funny
23:42:10  <Aali> MSVC is telling me that I don't have msvcr90.dll when I compile my code in debug mode
23:42:26  <Aali> change to the release config and it goes away
23:42:44  <Aali> as far as I can tell, they're identical except for the debugging stuff
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23:58:58  <OwenS> Aali: Theres an msvcr90 debug dll which has, you guessed it, debug code
23:59:25  <Aali> yes, it's called msvcr90d or some such
23:59:29  <Aali> and I'm not using it

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