Log for #openttd on 27th July 2009:
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05:09:45  <GregVernon> Hey guys, is there a train limit in OpenTTD 0.7.1?  I try to build more than 3 trains and I can't :(
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05:17:29  <Noldo> what is stopping you?
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05:26:04  <GregVernon> I go into the "new vehicle" menu, and can only create cars - no engines
05:28:11  <Noldo> what is stopping you?
05:29:24  <GregVernon> there are no engines in the list
05:30:13  <Noldo> I don't think it has anything to do with a train limit, but you can test that easily by selling few trains
05:30:26  <Noldo> it could be that there simply aren't any available
05:31:44  <GregVernon> well, I only have three
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05:34:19  <GregVernon> so I guess what do you mean by "available" factories can't keep up with demand?
05:35:29  <GregVernon> hmm... I went into what trains I have available... I have 2 electric engines... I try to build one and it says "Can't build railroad vehicle"
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05:38:26  <GregVernon> I just tried to clone one of my trains and it said "Cannot clone train... Vehicle not available"
05:41:11  <GregVernon> I'm starting to think... in 2016, old diesel trains are not available anymore?
05:43:22  <Noldo> propably not
05:44:45  <GregVernon> well... I wouldn't mind updating my rail infastructure to an electrified rail, but that doesn't seem to be available either...
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05:57:09  <aperson> howdy
06:06:57  <Xaroth> GregVernon: Rail vehicle limits are set in the advanced settings window
06:22:55  <GregVernon> whats the rate on how towns grow? i.e. how on until a trainstation/truck station/etc can accept goods or food?
06:26:07  <GregVernon> what variables determine growth?
06:26:39  <Noldo>
06:26:41  <planetmaker> town_growth_speed possibly
06:27:06  <planetmaker> generally it helps a lot to just look at the config file :)
06:27:08  <GregVernon> oh... thats awkward
06:27:10  <GregVernon> :P
06:27:14  <planetmaker> The config options equal the variable names
06:27:37  <GregVernon> thanks though
06:28:07  <planetmaker> up to 5 well serviced stations will help to boost growth
06:29:16  <GregVernon> so, bus stations = growth?
06:29:43  <planetmaker> serviced bus station will help to stimulate growth
06:30:05  <GregVernon> sweet! thanks!
06:30:05  <planetmaker> mind that in tropical or arctic towns will require food and/or water to grow if in snow/desert
06:30:19  <GregVernon> yeah, I just raid that... I'm in a desert map.
06:30:30  <GregVernon> I should probably start working on that water supply
06:30:33  <planetmaker> it needs one delivery per month
06:31:17  <planetmaker> the town info window tells you what (if so) is needed
06:31:56  <GregVernon> is there any way to tell if the delivery makes it every month, i.e. if I have one truck going to two towns, how would I know if it makes deliveries on time?
06:32:06  <planetmaker> no
06:32:38  <planetmaker> at least not easily and reliably.
06:32:52  <planetmaker> you could use autofil timetable for the vehicle for testing purposes
06:34:50  <planetmaker> well: or very easy: open a viewport on a vehicle and just watch.
06:34:54  <planetmaker> that's what I do in case of doubt
06:34:59  <GregVernon> ah, I see
06:35:31  <GregVernon> hmm, what about motor vehicle crashes
06:35:44  <GregVernon> is there any way to avoid those? aside from not building across train tracks?
06:36:33  <planetmaker> build not across train tracks. use bridges/tunnels
06:37:14  <Tefad> good luck telling towns that
06:37:34  <planetmaker> sure: disable town build roads and build yourself :-)
06:38:05  <planetmaker> vehicle I build usually take save routes which I make sure don't hit a train
06:38:25  <planetmaker> even with towns building road on
06:39:53  <GregVernon> I see...
06:40:14  <GregVernon> because I've had two crashes... 42 people dead so far :(
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07:09:17  <GregVernon> ugh
07:09:22  <GregVernon> why do UFOs like my trainstation?!
07:09:32  <Noldo> it's tasty
07:11:19  <GregVernon> I bet it is
07:11:43  <GregVernon> I mean,  rebuild it ever 5 years
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07:25:43  <planetmaker> those old-fashioned and dirty buildings are just not on. They just help you to maintain a modern building.
07:28:04  <GregVernon> which AI would you recommend I download?
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07:33:03  <Rubidium> planetmaker: are OpenGFX's toyland construction stages automatically generated?
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07:33:31  <planetmaker> Rubidium, not automatically. But one person made a web-based generator
07:33:38  <planetmaker> And he made all those wrapping- stages.
07:34:09  <Rubidium> that sounds like automatically to me
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07:34:55  <planetmaker> well. you still have to put in every sprite individually and have it generate the output.
07:35:32  <planetmaker> but yes, it's automatic in a certain sense :-)
07:35:35  <planetmaker> Though I didn't find the interface 100% intuitive :-P
07:36:11  <Rubidium> so the web-based generator is the prefered way of modifying those sprites (at least the wrapping), right?
07:36:24  <planetmaker>
07:36:43  <planetmaker> well... that's the way it has been done now. And the only way.
07:37:05  <planetmaker> So... I guess it's the preferred way to do then :-)
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07:37:50  <Rubidium> so it's something troublesome for GPL 'compatability'
07:37:57  <planetmaker> uh? Why?
07:38:01  <Rubidium> The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for making modifications to it.
07:38:39  <planetmaker> hm... true
07:38:51  <Noldo> and tools to make the 'binary' from the 'source'
07:38:52  <planetmaker> I'll ask him about the php code
07:39:02  <planetmaker> Noldo, that's done. The pcx are there.
07:40:50  <Noldo> for just the wrapping?
07:41:17  <planetmaker> yes. It's a pattern which is taken
07:41:27  <planetmaker> and then skewed over the existing sprite
07:41:40  <planetmaker> and a bit re-shaded to adjust for lightening effects
07:42:45  <planetmaker> The box generator is also GPL2 - by the person who supplied the sprites - so in principle we can add it to the repo.
07:42:51  <planetmaker> Which is a good idea, I have to admit.
07:43:57  <Rubidium> yup
07:44:53  <Rubidium> and add the pattern and a small script that (re)generates the wrapped-toyland-buildings-pcx(es?)
07:45:20  <Rubidium> and just use the pregenerated (stored in the repository) .pcx for the general build
07:45:31  <planetmaker> yes. That'd be handy. I don't entirely understand how he did that. But I'll ask him about exactly that, to submit it to the repo
07:46:01  <planetmaker> uh... ok. That'll be difficult. It's web-based, e.g. you have to upload the sprite afaik
07:46:06  <Rubidium> that way people can both generate the sprites and you don't add a php dependency on building the package
07:46:52  <Rubidium> he did upload and download all those sprites... poor person
07:47:07  <planetmaker> Though, admittedly again, that'd be the best way. But(!) alignment needs doing manually in any case, if the original sprites change.
07:47:17  <planetmaker> So I don't really see how that can be completely don automatically.
07:47:44  <planetmaker> hm... sprite# seems to suffice
07:47:52  <planetmaker> so he gets them somewhere.
07:48:59  <planetmaker> but still it needs generation one by one.
07:53:18  <Alberth> further automagization would be useful :)
07:53:25  <planetmaker> yup, indeed :-)
07:57:23  <Alberth> (09:47:34 AM) planetmaker: So I don't really see how that can be completely don automatically.  <-- you cannot. However, if you can specify in a file how to align each sprite (and the tool knows what to do with the file), that file becomes part of the input-files, and you can do the assembly as part of the daily build.
07:58:16  <planetmaker> Alberth, well... in principle the wrapping need the same alignment as the built house... I guess a copy&paste will do...
07:58:45  <planetmaker> well... there are means to do it automatically. I just sent him an e-mail which basically is an assignment :-P
07:59:03  <planetmaker> though phrased as a nice question :-)
07:59:09  <Alberth> :)
07:59:17  <planetmaker> about possibilities
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08:07:56  <Ammler> afaik, it is just html/javascript
08:08:48  <planetmaker> if that's so, then it's easy to commit as is.
08:08:52  <Ammler> (the html file is the source)
08:09:00  <planetmaker> Having it as a script would then be nicer, though :-)
08:09:29  <Ammler> hmm, I see it more as a tool like gimp
08:10:22  <planetmaker> well... it's a custom tool.
08:10:34  <Alberth> planetmaker:
08:10:56  <planetmaker> nice! :-)
08:11:09  <Alberth> it looks familiar, no doubt :)
08:11:18  <planetmaker> hehe. Indeed.
08:11:58  <planetmaker> Meanwhile I extended it a bit, doing a few changes. Like increasing the probability that PBS features are shown, adding more vehicles
08:12:21  <planetmaker> more obvious use of drive-through road stops
08:12:52  <planetmaker> but all not visible on first glance,  I guess
08:13:32  <planetmaker> I still hope I can supply you with a new and nice title game somewhen :-)
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08:13:58  <planetmaker> (and have a tropical OpenGFX test game at the same time :-) )
08:15:16  <planetmaker> But making a good showcase is much more difficult than one would expect :-)
08:16:14  <Alberth> afaik the current opening screen is also used as a test-bed, namely loading a very old game.
08:16:35  <planetmaker> :-) That's something I cannot provide for sure.
08:18:19  <planetmaker> as "showing all (or at least most) features" is mutually exclusive with "old save".
08:18:34  <Alberth> yeah.
08:19:18  <Alberth> also, it should probably look good both with the current graphics and the OpenGFX set.
08:19:36  <planetmaker> sure. But I think that's not too difficult.
08:19:40  <Alberth> (in case it isn't difficult enough :) )
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08:21:04  <Alberth> maybe we should have a directory with user-supplied saves, or so.
08:21:16  <planetmaker> :-)
08:21:20  <Alberth> (that at least seems one of the simpler approaches)
08:21:52  <planetmaker> he... and then the next idea: a random save is chosen as the title screen - if it is available :-)
08:22:18  <Alberth> but first a bit of gui hacking :)
08:22:22  <planetmaker> :-)
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09:08:10  <dihedral> hehe - there is an issue in the maglev in opengfx
09:08:11  <dihedral> :-D
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09:08:27  <dihedral> look at the diagonal rails in that screenshot Alberth posted ^^
09:09:02  <blathijs> dihedral: You probably mean the connection between diagonal and straight rails?
09:09:04  <dihedral> just 1 pixel on each edge of the tile
09:09:14  <dihedral> nope - between diagonal and diagonal
09:09:40  <dihedral>
09:09:49  <dihedral> left side
09:10:08  <blathijs> Ah, there
09:10:17  <blathijs> I was looking at the vertical one :-)
09:10:21  <dihedral> 1 pixel only
09:11:01  <planetmaker> eh? I don't get what you hint at
09:11:15  <dihedral> planetmaker, have a look at that image
09:11:30  <dihedral> look at the diagonal maglev line at the left
09:11:40  <planetmaker> I do. And...?
09:11:52  <dihedral> look at the join of 2 tiles
09:12:00  <dihedral> it's 1px off
09:12:17  <planetmaker> you mean the lines perpendicular to the track?
09:12:28  <dihedral> aye
09:12:47  <planetmaker> hm... can be considered a bug probably, I guess
09:13:01  <planetmaker> though no-one noticed so far :-P
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09:13:33  <dihedral> bugs dont have to be noticed to be bugs :-P
09:13:42  <Noldo> visual ones do
09:13:48  <planetmaker> :-)
09:14:03  <dihedral> then the entire maglev sprites are a bug :-D
09:14:16  <dihedral> maglev rail sprites
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09:15:54  <dihedral> looks like a ... "fliessband" :-P
09:16:04  <planetmaker> conveyor belt :-)
09:16:17  <dihedral> yes, that
09:16:30  <dihedral> like at an airport... "here comes my case"
09:16:45  <dihedral> hihi
09:17:19  <blathijs> dihedral: Nobody said that things were a bug if you noticed them, that's the other way around :-p
09:17:32  <blathijs> Just that it's not a bug if you don't notice it :-)
09:18:31  <dihedral> nobody noticed some stuff in openttd that could cause crashes, yet they were still bugs :-D
09:18:58  <planetmaker> something which doesn't cause an issue is not a bug.
09:19:06  <dihedral> @seen Yexo
09:19:06  <DorpsGek> dihedral: Yexo was last seen in #openttd 16 hours, 20 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <Yexo> good evening
09:19:29  <dihedral> planetmaker, ok, it does not cause the trains to derail
09:19:50  <planetmaker> I meant the general case.
09:19:59  <planetmaker> If it works, it isn't broken.
09:20:00  <dihedral> i am just being silly ;-)
09:20:16  <Noldo> I remember back in the day when I did my best to reproduce the "lonely wagon" bug
09:20:35  <dihedral> heh
09:22:34  <planetmaker> <-- dihedral
09:23:37  <dihedral> ^^
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09:39:49  <Muxy> Kiss from Goulp !
09:43:05  <Forked> ?\(?_o)/?
09:43:50  <blathijs> Muxy: Interesting hostname
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10:20:10  <Muxy> blathijs: not as yours ;-)
10:20:39  <blathijs> Muxy: It seems rather weird to be running IRC on an smtp server, is what I meant :-)
10:21:01  <Muxy> ah, ok, but as i have only one ip...
10:22:50  <Muxy> but the irc is running on another system than the smtp server...
10:23:10  <blathijs> Ah, your SMTP server is also the gateway :-)
10:23:19  <Muxy> no
10:24:15  <Muxy> this is my router.
10:24:33  <blathijs> Ah, and both are running behind the gateway
10:24:57  <Muxy> that's it.
10:25:07  <blathijs> In that case it's funny that the reverse name is smtp. I guess  :-)
10:26:02  <Muxy> well, as the smtp name is the hostname defined in the domains i own, i set the reverse on it, coz i think it's better to do it like this.
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12:00:09  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16967 /trunk/src/disaster_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#0356]: assert when UFO tried to destroy rail
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12:35:14  <LadyHawk> ufo?
12:35:29  <LadyHawk> in ottd?
12:35:48  <Rubidium> yes, an uncontrolable flying object
12:36:10  <TrueBrain> you never spot them?
12:36:15  <TrueBrain> enable Disasters for once :p
12:36:21  <glx> the small one kills buses, the big one destroy rails
12:38:01  <LadyHawk> lol
12:38:05  <LadyHawk> i don't do disasters
12:43:40  <Belugas> hello
12:43:59  <TrueBrain> Belugas!!!!!!!1111111111111
12:44:14  <Belugas> heeeeek!!!!
12:44:25  <Belugas> What have I done???
12:44:34  <TrueBrain> I am just happy to see you :)
12:45:30  <Belugas> pffffiooouu... i was afraid you wold discover what i did to your bank account...
12:45:44  <TrueBrain> haha, not much to do there .. :p
12:45:49  <Belugas> i'm happy to see you too ;)
12:46:01  <TrueBrain> :) :) :)
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12:47:58  <Rubidium> ghehe... the philosophy of 'seeing' ;)
12:51:50  <Belugas> yup
12:52:03  <Belugas> when oceans are between us :(
12:52:07  <Belugas> sniff sniff
12:58:18  <Sacro> UFOs, in my OpenTTD? It's more common than you think!
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14:11:06  <OwenS> Aah SSH, warning me about my server's SSH certificate changing
14:11:44  <TrueBrain> be glad he does that :)
14:11:52  <TrueBrain> it at least once saved my ass :)
14:11:58  <OwenS> :-)
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14:12:22  <OwenS> Incidentally, I notice my known hosts file is full of crap
14:12:51  <TrueBrain> :) They all are ;)
14:13:10  <OwenS> Like a server which hasn't existed for 2 years :p
14:13:28  <TrueBrain> happy happy designing the new database for WT3 .. pff ...
14:13:47  <OwenS> Incidentally, my server just moved from UML to Xen
14:14:46  <OwenS> (They've offered both for about 6months, it's just I only just got round to putting in a movement ticket)
14:15:18  <OwenS> Or rather, they've offered Xen for 6 months and no longer sell UML to new customers
14:15:48  <TrueBrain> we stopped selling linux-vservers and only sell ESXi nowedays :p
14:16:25  <OwenS> I've had better Xen performance than VMWare, so meh :p
14:16:33  <TrueBrain> VMWare Server, yes
14:16:38  <TrueBrain> ESX(i), doubtful :p
14:16:55  <OwenS> It's just Xen is a royal bitch to configure :p
14:16:57  <TrueBrain> (I spent a good week running all kinds of extensive tests on both :p)
14:17:03  <TrueBrain> oh, that too!
14:17:33  <TrueBrain> ESX(i) works best via iSCSI fileserver .. so we are now happy using that :)
14:17:36  <OwenS> I bet ESXi VPS cost more though :P
14:17:41  <TrueBrain> I doubt that
14:17:48  <TrueBrain> both are free software ;)
14:18:09  <OwenS> I forgot they'd done that now :p
14:18:26  <TrueBrain> well, very soon you want to buy a few packages from them
14:19:05  <TrueBrain> oh, I forgot: I didn't compared Xen with ESXi, I compared Citrix XenServer with ESXi
14:19:23  <TrueBrain> removed the part: bitch to configure ;)
14:21:26  <OwenS> Eurgh! Licorice!
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14:25:26  <OwenS> Note to self: Your deploying a VPS from a system image which is 14 months old. You're gonna have to do an apt-get update first before installing anything
14:25:47  <Rubidium> especially when you used debian-stable ;)
14:25:53  <OwenS> Ubuntu 8.04 LTS
14:26:16  <OwenS> Used to use CentOS but I find Yum too fragile. And slooow
14:26:16  <Rubidium> that shouldn't have that many changes
14:26:38  <OwenS> Rubidium: No it doesn't. But package URLs have still changed because of updates
14:26:54  <Rubidium> that's nasty
14:27:41  <OwenS> Old versions have gone from the repository. Is that a big issue? :P
14:27:52  <TrueBrain> it looks like it is going to rain .. yet I need to go out to do some shopping .. what to do ...
14:28:08  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: don't go and order a pizza
14:28:17  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: considering it :p
14:28:19  <Belugas> # Here comes the Rain!!
14:28:27  <Belugas> # Here she comes again
14:28:38  <Belugas> # RAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIN  yeah yeah
14:28:49  <Rubidium> OwenS: old versions yes, but so many that you need to update before you can install anything is a bad thing; it means that you had a lot of crap to start with
14:28:58  <TrueBrain> buienradar tells me only a minor rainclowd will hit here in the next hour ..
14:29:31  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: the 'nice' feature of that is that it doesn't show clouds that aren't producing percipitation
14:29:43  <TrueBrain> indeed
14:29:49  <TrueBrain> the reason I said: rainclowd ;)
14:30:25  <OwenS> Rubidium: Not really. I had 36 out of date packages, which downloaded in about 2 seconds :P All I needed before I could install stuff though was an update to download package manifests
14:32:36  <Rubidium> oh, that's reasonable, although assuming a server with a fair amount of stuff installed
14:33:00  <OwenS> They deploy a very bare bones system
14:33:01  <Rubidium> (not that it's the 36 packages of a 'empty' install)
14:33:04  <OwenS> Not even a mail server
14:33:15  <Rubidium> hmm, then 36 is quite a lot
14:34:04  <OwenS> They update their images when the distros release new CDs. In the case of 8.04 LTS, they don't make new CDs... so it's an image from April 08
14:37:09  <Rubidium> that sucks
14:37:38  <OwenS> It's the same situation you'd be in on a physical server
14:38:48  <Rubidium> even debian (fairly) regularly releases a new set of CDs
14:39:21  <OwenS> At least I think that's the case. I'm not sure. The image may be newer
14:39:52  <Rubidium> it even updates oldstable images
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14:59:40  <OwenS> I have a slight issue with Solaris zones
14:59:53  <OwenS> The host machine they're running on now has 15 network interfaces
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15:28:01  <TrueBrain> who here uses GetText?
15:28:28  *** tdev [] has joined #openttd
15:28:46  <frosch123> as developer yes; as packager or translator no
15:29:15  <TrueBrain> well .. in Django, gettext files can contain %(variable)s
15:29:24  <TrueBrain> is this normal gettext something, or did Django define that?
15:29:38  <tdev> its a python thing
15:29:47  <frosch123> never saw that :)
15:29:50  <TrueBrain> (designing WT3.1 database, and I wonder why I need to add for GetText support)
15:29:54  <TrueBrain> howdie tdev
15:29:57  <glx> I only saw standard % stuff
15:29:57  <FloSoft> TrueBrain: its a gettext thing
15:30:00  <tdev> print "%(varname)s" % {varname:"value"}
15:30:07  <TrueBrain> mixing signals here :)
15:30:17  <tdev> hi TrueBrain :)
15:30:22  <TrueBrain> tdev: I know it is Python, the syntax, but I wonder if gettext supports anything like it
15:30:30  <tdev> i dont think so ;)
15:30:35  <FloSoft> TrueBrain: you can change position of placeholders, but python added some extra functionality
15:30:53  <TrueBrain> tdev: <- any feedback is welcome ;)
15:31:12  <TrueBrain> I read over the brainstorm page of yours, and I couldn't find anything I didn't already have :p :p
15:31:27  <tdev> TrueBrain: will look later, food now :)
15:31:30  <glx> FloSoft: so it's for "bla %s %s" with inversion in the translation ?
15:31:58  <TrueBrain> PHP uses %s and %d and stuff
15:32:08  <TrueBrain> but is it gettext, or PHP?
15:32:46  <FloSoft> TrueBrain: that are placeholders for sprintf, the order of these can be changed when using gettext
15:32:59  <TrueBrain> how?
15:33:21  <TrueBrain> (I know too little about gettext :p)
15:34:10  <FloSoft> TrueBrain: look into manual of gettext, there it should stand somewhere, never used it by myself
15:34:43  <frosch123> he, the way I understood it, reordering paramters cannot work :)
15:34:52  <TrueBrain> I read several packages that do that
15:34:53  <FloSoft> oh very simple: %1$s %2$s and so on...
15:34:54  <TrueBrain> like quercus
15:35:15  <FloSoft> frosch123: sure, gettext has replacements for most *printf-functions to interpret those commands
15:35:20  <TrueBrain> FloSoft: I read several syntax for that already ... dunno if it is gettext which does it
15:35:37  <FloSoft> you add a number$ between the placeholder
15:35:56  <frosch123> FloSoft: so you have to use sprintf everywhere, when printf is not sufficient
15:36:02  <frosch123> ?
15:36:30  <FloSoft> it has replacements vor sprintf, printf, vprintf and many more variants
15:37:11  <glx>
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15:38:12  <TrueBrain> glx: yeah, just found that ;)
15:38:13  <TrueBrain> tnx
15:38:19  <TrueBrain> it just clearly indicate it only works in printf statements :p
15:38:53  <FloSoft> and all other types of format-specified functions (sprintf, vprintf, as i said) they all use the same type of "engine"
15:39:12  <TrueBrain> FloSoft: you gave me the idea that gettext replaced printf
15:39:15  <TrueBrain> which is not what is happening :)
15:39:52  <TrueBrain> cool, gettext also supports plurals
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15:40:11  <glx> of course it does :)
15:40:33  <z-MaTRiX> hey
15:40:38  <TrueBrain> hello z-MaTRiX
15:40:49  <z-MaTRiX> \o/
15:40:57  <Rubidium> oh... printing 64 bits integers with gettext is going to be fun ;)
15:40:58  <FloSoft> glx: if not it crashes *lol*
15:41:07  <FloSoft> Rubidium: why?
15:41:23  <Rubidium> what's the printf format for 64 bits integers?
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15:41:29  <FloSoft> Rubidium: it only adds a number$ inside the format
15:41:38  <FloSoft> Rubidium: ld or something like that
15:42:10  <glx> Rubidium: depends on the platform/OS
15:42:16  <Rubidium> FloSoft: %lld or %I64d depending on your neighbourhood ;)
15:42:35  <OwenS> The latter is MS is it not? :p
15:42:42  <glx> of course it is :)
15:42:54  <Rubidium> which means 2 translations
15:42:59  <FloSoft> Rubidium: yea okay, but its not the problem? you only write %1$lld
15:43:14  <FloSoft> even msvc accepts lld
15:43:23  <Rubidium> FloSoft: not really...
15:43:26  <glx> but it doesn't work
15:43:37  <FloSoft> oh, okay -.-
15:44:17  <OwenS> Took a while for WINE to implement 64d also
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17:06:16  <TrueBrain> tdev: done with your food? :)
17:06:42  <tdev> yes
17:06:49  <tdev> *looking at your URL*
17:06:52  <TrueBrain> ;)
17:07:51  <tdev> looks good
17:08:10  <tdev> why not host at any common system?
17:08:19  <TrueBrain> what do you mean?
17:08:24  <tdev> google code for example
17:08:34  <TrueBrain> I hate GoogleCode
17:08:41  <TrueBrain> (I hate Google, I don't trust them)
17:08:45  <TrueBrain> and RedMine is a very common system
17:08:57  <tdev> hehe, ok
17:09:07  <tdev> google knows everything about you anyways
17:09:19  <tdev> 'privacy is dead, come over it' <- watch that
17:09:32  <TrueBrain> you have no privacy on the Internet
17:09:35  <TrueBrain> I completely agree with that
17:09:43  <TrueBrain> but in this case ... Google terms of use scare me to dead
17:09:43  <Rubidium> tdev: ever read the "Google owns everything" clauses in their terms of service?
17:10:22  <tdev> yup
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17:11:09  <tdev> gtg, cu later :)
17:11:10  <Rubidium> so you know that if they want they can own your stuff if they want to, right?
17:11:28  <tdev> well, let them i dont care
17:11:30  <TrueBrain> tdev: bah, I was hoping for more feedback :p :p
17:11:45  <tdev> TrueBrain: what should i say to an empty redmine page? :|
17:11:54  <TrueBrain> tdev: the wiki pages I pointed you to?
17:12:06  <TrueBrain> they contain concept and database layout? :)
17:12:15  <tdev> ah, overlooked that ;)
17:12:16  <tdev> *reading*
17:12:18  <Rubidium> tdev: and I hope you're not storing important mail at gmail
17:12:19  <TrueBrain> .... :p
17:13:08  <tdev> yeah, i bought google apps actually ;)
17:14:09  <tdev> TrueBrain: too much web2.0 for me in there :|
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17:14:33  <TrueBrain> in where?
17:14:36  <TrueBrain> in wiki pages?!
17:14:44  <tdev> in your ideas ;)
17:14:49  <tdev> about the authors
17:14:55  <TrueBrain> where in my idea is web2.0, besides the frontend itself?
17:14:56  <tdev> i would want different user levels
17:14:58  <TrueBrain> (which is 10% of WT3.1)
17:15:34  <tdev> also
17:15:46  <tdev> dont coulple it hard to subversion, thats not a good design IMHO
17:15:55  <tdev> write an interface for multiple backends
17:15:58  <TrueBrain> it isn't
17:16:04  <tdev> i would want to store data in sqlite
17:16:08  <TrueBrain> currently it accepts any VCS, but I am even considering removing that
17:16:18  <TrueBrain> did you read all pages? :p
17:16:30  <tdev> half way through
17:16:32  <TrueBrain> ;)
17:16:38  <tdev> and im getting killed if i dont leave
17:16:41  <tdev> will look
17:16:42  <TrueBrain> leave
17:16:44  <TrueBrain> an other time :)
17:16:45  <tdev> later *bookmark*
17:16:46  <tdev> cu
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17:42:02  <Wolf01> hello
17:43:09  <TrueBrain> howdie Wolf01
17:43:36  <Wolf01> fine thank you ;)
17:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: translators * r16968 /trunk/src/lang/ (9 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: danish - 14 changes by silentStatic
17:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: finnish - 1 changes by jpx_
17:45:40  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: greek - 1 changes by kinglee
17:45:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: malay - 26 changes by rionix88
17:45:42  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: persian - 2 changes by 100ra
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17:51:51  * Belugas yawns
17:51:55  <Belugas> again and again
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17:53:48  <Benny> Ooh, Lakie. :)
17:53:59  <Lakie> yes.... ?
17:54:11  <Benny> Never seen you on IRC before.
17:54:20  <Lakie> Been here for a long time
17:54:37  <Benny> Well, I've never SEEN you.
17:54:44  <TrueBrain> you still don't
17:55:06  <Benny> Um, well.. I can at least see his name.
17:55:15  <Benny> Or nickname..
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17:57:47  <buckethead> hello people
17:58:59  <buckethead> too bad lobster and dave arent here
17:59:09  <buckethead> would've been fun
17:59:14  <planetmaker> ...
17:59:27  <planetmaker> I guess go to #tycoon
17:59:56  <buckethead> does your chat window flick on and off??
18:00:03  <buckethead> cos mine does
18:00:13  <buckethead> and it hurts me eyes
18:00:30  <planetmaker> then get a proper client
18:00:46  <planetmaker> or configure it properly. Sure it doesn't here.
18:01:14  <glx> using a real client would be a first step
18:01:16  *** buckethead [] has quit []
18:01:39  <planetmaker> hehe :-)
18:02:07  <glx> This client is a Java application supporting the following CTCP tags : ...
18:02:27  <planetmaker> :-) And now he chats away in #tycoon
18:02:40  <glx> flickering is not surprising with java
18:04:29  <planetmaker> true
18:07:24  <Ammler> WT3.1 useable for newgrfs, too?
18:08:43  <Ammler> Redmine is nice :-)
18:10:06  <Ammler> TrueBrain: which server do you use to run it?
18:10:19  <TrueBrain> Ammler: why?
18:10:22  <TrueBrain> and yes, RedMine is nice
18:10:29  <Ammler> just wondering, I use apache
18:10:35  <TrueBrain> I dunno about NewGRFs, never interested myself in it :p
18:10:37  <TrueBrain> ah, which httpd
18:10:39  <TrueBrain> lighttpd
18:10:54  <Ammler> with fastcgi then, I assume?
18:10:57  <TrueBrain> yup
18:11:41  <Ammler> there are some "special" ror servers
18:12:05  <TrueBrain> yeah ... but I also want 'general' httpd :p
18:12:07  <TrueBrain> ghehe :)
18:12:14  <Ammler> :-)
18:15:11  <TrueBrain> Ammler: but if you are interested in having WT3.1 work for NewGRFs, spend some time on how it works and see the website to see if it ss supported
18:15:17  <OwenS> Hmm... I may have to install Redmine behind nginx =)
18:15:52  <TrueBrain> I like that Redmine is really fast :p
18:15:57  <TrueBrain> just ... too much bloat for my taste
18:16:03  <TrueBrain> I can't remove a few thingies I don't like
18:16:15  <Ammler> planetmaker: might know a lot about translations already in both areas ;-)
18:16:28  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Which do you prefer then, Redmine or Trac? :p
18:16:35  <TrueBrain> OwenS: RedMine over Trac
18:16:37  <TrueBrain> Trac is ... SLOW!
18:16:59  <OwenS> I agree.. And the ram consumption... omg the ram consumption!
18:17:01  <Ammler> so does that mean, python slow, ruby fast?
18:17:05  <TrueBrain> nope
18:17:09  <TrueBrain> Trac slow, RedMine fast
18:17:11  <TrueBrain> that is all you can say
18:17:13  <Ammler> :-9
18:17:17  <OwenS> Python generally is faster than Ruby
18:17:32  <TrueBrain> most benchmarks tend to say that, yes
18:17:38  <Ammler> trac has a bit nicer source viewer.
18:17:47  <OwenS> At least until recently CRuby was slower than JRuby. Thats impressively slow! You can write a faster Ruby interpreter in Java than the C ruby interpreter...
18:18:34  <Ammler> but that might be, because redmine supports all well known vcs'
18:18:54  <OwenS> Yeah. Git support <3
18:19:12  <Ammler> well, not really well,
18:19:15  <TrueBrain> either way, I need people to comment on my database design :p
18:21:17  <OwenS> Erm, OpenVPN, when is your tun adaptor coming up?
18:22:01  <OwenS> When I punch a hole in my firewall. Oops :p
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18:23:10  <TrueBrain> Ammler: do you know how you enable the tree navigation thingy in RedMine? (for the wiki)
18:25:54  <OwenS> Anyone got a clue why a supposedly business router includes firewall hole punchimg options for "Quake III Arena Server"?
18:26:02  <TrueBrain> oeh, found it :)
18:26:13  <TrueBrain> OwenS: because every sane company runs that game!
18:26:33  <OwenS> "Motorhead Server" - I thought Motorhead were a band?!
18:26:35  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: how do you think you keep your sysadmins pleased?
18:26:58  <Rubidium> uhm... more OwenS :)
18:27:44  <Ammler> TrueBrain: you mean sub pages?
18:27:47  <OwenS> Or why said router is loosing my OpenVPN entries from the list?
18:28:04  <TrueBrain> Ammler: nevermind .. Rename contained the Parent function I was looking for :p
18:28:15  <OwenS> Oh right... Theres a unobvious filter by category thing
18:29:58  <Ammler> are you able to make subpage? Didn't work the last time, I tried.
18:31:17  <TrueBrain> <- I meant the crumble path
18:31:42  <Ammler> oh, you run the stable
18:31:46  <OwenS> Yaay! My remote server can ping!
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18:40:32  <TrueBrain> Ammler: do you know how I can make 'Home' direct to a wiki page?
18:41:12  <frosch123> hmm, why is it so annoying to only have one display at home when you are used to two most of the day :(
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18:44:10  * Belugas knows the feeling, frosch123
18:45:02  * frosch123 tries to arrange the windows :/
18:46:23  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Speaking of welsh, have you seen the Dragons?
18:46:32  <TrueBrain> frosch123: reason I have 2 at home :p
18:48:00  <Belugas> TrueBrain, i don't have 2 screends at home but I can record stuff, me :P
18:48:18  <TrueBrain> GRR
18:48:24  <TrueBrain> I still don't have a mic .. it is too sad to be true
18:50:21  <Belugas> one day, one day.  It's just not among your priorities :)
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18:51:59  <Sacro> Prof_Frink: dragons?
18:52:50  <TrueBrain> Belugas: no, I just forget :p
18:52:54  <TrueBrain> WT3.1 is more important now :)
18:53:06  <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Dragons.
18:53:13  <TrueBrain> I love how a page like RedMine can give your project profesionality with a few clicks :p
18:54:26  *** Benny [] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.12/2009070611]]
18:56:07  <Ammler> [20:40] <TrueBrain> Ammler: do you know how I can make 'Home' direct to a wiki page? <-- check routes.rb
18:56:58  <Ammler> in config
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19:02:59  <George> Does anyone know, why FS2673 is closed today, but in in r15592 ?
19:05:17  *** FR^2 [] has joined #openttd
19:05:57  <Belugas> maybe the commiter of 15592 forgot to close FS when commiting?
19:06:22  <Belugas> in that case, it would be frosch123
19:08:50  *** fjb_ is now known as fjb
19:09:17  <frosch123> I did not close it intentionally. the task was started as feature request, later a bug was posted as example. the bug was fixed, the feature remained unsolved
19:12:20  <Belugas> haaa.. good explanation
19:14:09  <frosch123> btw. George: do mb's plans with adding a "oversized" cargo class match with you development?
19:15:22  <George> Sorry, what is Oversized class?
19:15:40  <planetmaker> :-D
19:15:46  <planetmaker> that's an answer in itself
19:15:46  <frosch123> lol
19:16:01  <frosch123> <- mb added lots of imaginary information to both the ecs cargo and usual cargo page
19:16:12  <frosch123> but it does not seem to refer to any actually existing
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19:18:25  <George> Strange. GLAS	Glass	0020 Piece goods; 0400 oversized
19:18:39  <George> I do not know about it
19:18:57  <TrueBrain> I just tried to watch the movie Supernovae ... I turned it off ...
19:18:59  <TrueBrain> omg ...
19:19:07  <George> I also can't understand, what is the profit to have a clas for a single cargo
19:19:19  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: TooMuchIncorrectnessException?
19:19:30  <planetmaker> :-D sounds like
19:19:32  <TrueBrain> in 30 minutes I have seen about 15 things which could not be done
19:19:33  <frosch123> George: Vehicles also have it
19:19:40  <TrueBrain> to start, our sun going supernovae
19:19:49  <Rubidium> hmm, no that can't be it... incorrectness isn't an exception for movies
19:20:16  <George> frosch123: I suppose vehicles is the only cargo to have it
19:20:23  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you can overdo it :)
19:20:24  <George> Glass looks lioke a mistake
19:21:04  <frosch123> hehe, so am I correct that you do not plan to add any oversized-class usage to your vectors?
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19:22:15  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you shouldn't watch anything "movie" or "series" with any expectations w.r.t. any correctness
19:22:31  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I can take a lot
19:22:33  <TrueBrain> but there are limits
19:22:43  <planetmaker> Rubidium: one needn't have an expectation there, but ^^
19:22:47  <George> I do not see a problem to provide any new class, but I would like to understand it first
19:22:57  <TrueBrain> a whole city, but only the hospital loses power because of a solar flare
19:23:03  <TrueBrain> the lights go off for 2 secs
19:23:08  <TrueBrain> and then everything is damaged
19:23:13  <planetmaker> George: I think it means things like wind power rotor blades, etc...
19:23:14  <TrueBrain> .... what kind of crappy hostpital is that?!
19:23:14  <frosch123> <- at least he defined it :)
19:23:23  <planetmaker> anything transported by means of exceptional transportation
19:26:28  <George> frosch123: I thing this is the right way to use classes
19:27:11  <George> I think MB should have a topic to discuss thing like that with other GRF coders. Or does he has one and I missed it?
19:27:12  <frosch123> which way? :o
19:27:35  <George> frosch123: to use a class for one or two cargoes
19:28:05  <frosch123> <- no, there is no topic by mb. there is only mine complaining about him :p
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19:32:14  <GregVernon> hmm, how much do people usually make yearly with buses?
19:32:19  <GregVernon> I mean, like per bus?
19:32:20  <Nite_Owl> Hello all
19:32:20  <OwenS> Oh hell
19:32:23  <George> thank's to pointing it! It would also be cool if you PM me about such a topic ;) when it was created to be sure I see it
19:32:23  <OwenS> Routing does my head in
19:32:35  <planetmaker> due to the limited amount of available classes it would indeed make sense to discuss such introductions, though, beforehand.
19:33:04  <planetmaker> GregVernon: depends very much so on route, cargo, newgrfs, inflation, game date...
19:33:13  <OwenS> I have a feeling I need to change the networking configuration of my zones to make this work..
19:33:42  *** PeterT [~Peter@] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:33:46  <GregVernon> ah, I see...
19:33:57  <GregVernon> btw, theres inflation in the game?
19:34:15  <planetmaker> depends
19:34:18  <Alberth> if you don't turn it off, yes
19:34:56  <GregVernon> well thats awesome
19:35:12  <Alberth> I wouldn't know, I always turn it off :)
19:35:13  <planetmaker> I usually turn it off
19:35:48  <planetmaker> one thing it makes easier though: to reach the 10k income per vehicle in the score chart
19:37:08  <Alberth> I never reach the year 2050 either :)
19:38:09  <planetmaker> hm, no? I frequently do that, though :-)
19:38:09  * frosch123 only reaches it when testing something using fast forward in a tiny window :/
19:38:14  <Wolf01> bye
19:38:19  *** Biolunar [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:38:20  <Alberth> bye
19:38:21  *** Wolf01 [] has quit [Quit: Once again the world is quick to bury me.]
19:38:27  <planetmaker> cu wolf01
19:38:31  <planetmaker> drat
19:38:37  <Alberth> quick enough this time :)
19:38:44  <planetmaker> :-)
19:40:14  <planetmaker> <-- frosch123 you might know the answer :-) - which indeed is interesting IMO
19:40:19  <OwenS> Arg how the hell do I do this?!
19:42:11  <George> frosch123:
19:43:12  <planetmaker> George: to require that a cargo is only member of one class is IMO not logical
19:43:19  <planetmaker> nor required
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19:44:12  <George> I mean value of a mask, not vaule of a bit
19:44:35  <Rubidium>
19:44:50  <planetmaker> you mean: the label should always keep it's cargo classes?
19:45:00  *** |Jeroen| [] has quit [Quit: oO]
19:45:00  <planetmaker> that's something I'd like to agree to, too
19:45:32  <George> For example, FERT	Fertiliser is0070, but never 0010;0020;0040
19:45:45  <George> planetmaker: yes
19:45:46  <frosch123> at least it would keep vehicle refit mask sane :)
19:45:56  <planetmaker> indeed ^
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19:47:13  <planetmaker> but that's now how I understand it. It makes sense to list the respective classes individually on that wiki page
19:47:20  <planetmaker> s/now/not/
19:48:38  <George> planetmaker: do you mean to move them from page to
19:49:47  <planetmaker> no, I don't think. Though I see arguments for doing so.
19:50:49  <planetmaker> I meant a table entry like "	 0020 Piece goods; 0400 oversized " is nicer than "0084 Express, refrigerated " in the cargo class column
19:51:20  <planetmaker> because the first case gives you the numbers which you need to add up, if you code a specific vehicle
19:51:31  <planetmaker> and you might want to give it only one of those numbers :-)
19:58:11  <George> if you mean to write "0004 Express + 0080 refrigerated", than it is fine
19:59:14  <George> but writing "0004 Express; 0080 Refrigerated" is not good, because it can be read as "0004 Express || 0080 Refrigerated", that is very bad
19:59:41  <planetmaker> yes, I meant the first. I never understood it the way ^
19:59:53  <George> I did
20:00:29  <planetmaker> because - correct me if I'm wrong - that's not possible to implement.
20:00:29  <George> after MB changed the page I understood he plans "||"
20:00:47  <planetmaker> a cargo can have several classes assigned.
20:01:05  <planetmaker> And can be transported, if a vehicle offers to transport the classes
20:01:05  <George> It is possible to have 0004 in one implementation of the ECS and 0080 in the other
20:01:23  <George> It kills Vehicle set
20:01:35  <George> (Refit masks)
20:01:41  <planetmaker> having different implementations in different industries, I agree completely with you, yes
20:01:51  <planetmaker> that's a big no-no
20:05:10  <frosch123> hehe, via pm mb also told me that goods shall become piece goods :) (they are only express; the wiki is wrong currently)
20:05:36  <frosch123> chaning ttdp and ottd is even more no-no :)
20:05:44  <planetmaker> :-)
20:06:27  <planetmaker> from this discussion here, it's my impression that he's heading to breaking all vehicle sets by messing with the definition of the cargo classes for existing labels?
20:06:34  <George> frosch123: Then MB should defin PGOD for piece goods
20:06:40  <planetmaker> (and from what I read in the wiki's history and the forums)
20:06:58  <planetmaker> George: indeed
20:07:23  <frosch123> well, so, if anyone is able to find a revert button on ttdp wiki :) I failed
20:07:36  <DaleStan> There's a "rollback" option somewhere.
20:07:53  <Rubidium> haven't you all figured that mb's wishes must be turned into rules by the others yet?
20:08:47  * DaleStan is suddenly tempted to add a feature to TTDPatch that disables a GRF if an official cargo label has classes that don't match what they should.
20:08:49  <OwenS> planetmaker: Does the ttDP wiki not allow you to edit a historical revision?
20:09:07  <planetmaker> OwenS: not that I know. But I didn't look for that.
20:09:13  <planetmaker> But of course it has history.
20:09:51  <planetmaker> DaleStan: that actually sounds like a feature request well worth considering
20:09:54  * DaleStan is also tempted to do similar things to any cargo classed as both "piece" and "bulk".
20:10:25  <OwenS> planetmaker: On MediaWiki, you edit then save a historical revision to revert
20:11:31  <planetmaker> DaleStan: that again is IMO too specific :-) But defining the class definitions by a standard file - why not?
20:11:37  <Rubidium> by stripping \n instead of \r
20:11:58  <OwenS> Rubidium: It was in unix format :p
20:12:35  <DaleStan> Using unix2mac? :p
20:12:49  <OwenS> I assume I caught Alt+M while saving in nano
20:14:03  *** KritiK [] has joined #openttd
20:14:21  <Xaroth> that's a whole lot away from ctrl+x :P
20:15:53  <Xaroth> or ctrl o, for that matter
20:17:25  *** Nite_Owl [] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
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20:17:36  *** Nite_Owl_ is now known as Nite_Owl
20:17:46  *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:f960:b2b9:ce95:9453] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:20:05  <Eddi|zuHause> the keys are right next to each other...
20:23:18  *** Coco-Banana-Man [] has joined #openttd
20:27:00  <OwenS> It's a brilliant typo, I agree..
20:27:30  <Eddi|zuHause> brb
20:28:21  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:33:01  <Xaroth> getting pissed off at this whole LDAP thing
20:34:47  <frosch123> night
20:34:52  *** frosch123 [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:35:27  * TrueBrain gives Xaroth a big hug
20:35:39  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: got dune working yet? :o
20:35:45  <TrueBrain> nope
20:35:48  <TrueBrain> stopped working on it
20:35:52  <Xaroth> o_O
20:35:54  <Xaroth> no Dune 2.0?
20:35:58  <Xaroth> OpenDune
20:36:20  <TrueBrain> maybe in time :)
20:36:23  <Xaroth> woot
20:36:24  <TrueBrain> but those darn vehicles don't want to move
20:36:31  <TrueBrain> and I have NO CLUE why not :(
20:36:46  <Xaroth> give it a week, then look back at it
20:36:49  <Rubidium> after ~20 years they're a bit rusty
20:37:31  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: kind of the problem: time won't change it ..
20:37:34  <TrueBrain> I need to trace it somehow
20:37:38  <Xaroth> yeh
20:37:45  <Xaroth> but yer probably too focussed on it now
20:37:46  <TrueBrain> but okay, now first WT3.1 :)
20:37:52  <TrueBrain> got the interest of Debian translators ... :p
20:37:58  <Xaroth> o_O
20:38:20  <Xaroth> so give it a year or two and 4 more versions of it, and we'll see 3.1 in ubuntu \o/ </sarcasm>
20:38:37  <TrueBrain> haha :)
20:38:52  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
20:39:03  <Xaroth> just like it's still got ottd 6.3 as stable latest
20:39:13  <TrueBrain> there is a difference :)
20:39:19  <TrueBrain> WT3 won't be in the package manager
20:39:25  <TrueBrain> it is a tool to use to translate stuff
20:39:34  <Xaroth> true
20:39:49  <TrueBrain> ubuntu for example uses
20:39:53  <TrueBrain> which, for the record, sucks
20:40:02  <TrueBrain> but is better than what Debian uses now :s
20:40:06  <Xaroth> lol
20:40:29  <Xaroth> yay, php-ldap finally works
20:40:34  <TrueBrain> concratz :)
20:40:51  *** Dred_furst [] has joined #openttd
20:40:57  <Xaroth> now, time to go be lazy and plug smarty into this
20:41:01  <Xaroth> save me from writing my own
20:41:51  <Belugas> plug?  someone said plug?
20:41:59  <Xaroth> not buttplug, PLUG
20:42:21  <Belugas> as in: PLUG THE GUITAR, SAM!
20:42:27  <OwenS> TrueBrain: Launchpad probably sucks but will also probably be improved :p
20:42:41  <Xaroth> Belugas: guitar's unplugged atm.
20:42:54  <TrueBrain> OwenS: ever seen how fucking slow that page is?
20:42:56  <Xaroth> not that it matters i can't even play guitar :P
20:43:03  <Belugas> mine is always pluggued.  just... at home :(
20:43:07  <OwenS> TrueBrain: No. I've never spent much time on Launchpad :p
20:43:08  <TrueBrain> Belugas: poor thing
20:43:15  <TrueBrain> OwenS: you need a lot of time for a simple visit :p
20:43:21  <Belugas> naaa... will be there in a few moments ;)
20:43:30  <TrueBrain> hmm .. dosbox IRC channel is more empty than this channel
20:43:31  <OwenS> Now, if I could figure out why this traffic won't route!
20:44:21  <Belugas> and now...
20:44:22  <Xaroth> Belugas: teach me how to play guitar kthx.
20:44:23  <Belugas> BYE BYE
20:44:32  <Rubidium> night Belugas
20:44:37  <Belugas> Xaroth, sure, got a few weeks to spear?
20:44:37  <Xaroth> nn Belugas.
20:44:45  * Belugas is now gone
20:44:45  <Xaroth> Belugas: do weekends count? :P
20:44:55  <TrueBrain> bye Belugas :)
20:46:12  <Nite_Owl> Belugas is leaving early <gasps>
20:46:23  <OwenS> ROUTE DAMN TRAFFIC ROUTE! :p
20:47:02  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16969 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Normalizing transparency gui widget numbers.
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20:48:29  *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ
20:52:16  <TrueBrain> ah, Gentoo did not compile the 'heavy' debugger for DosBox ..
20:52:19  <TrueBrain> this could be interesting :p
20:53:38  <Rubidium> gentoo and compile? so it's rather you didn't compile DosBox with heavy debugger
20:53:50  <Xaroth> wait, gentooooooooo?
20:53:53  <TrueBrain> for the people who want to read into every word I type:
20:54:16  <TrueBrain> Gentoo ebuild with +debug does not configure dosbox to use the heavy debugger, in result it compiles a version with the normal debugger, which doesn't allow memory breakpoints
20:54:17  <TrueBrain> better Rubidium?
20:54:22  <TrueBrain> or you want a cookie with it?
20:54:44  <Rubidium> only physical cookies, not those 'fake' browser cookies
20:54:54  <TrueBrain> and those you can't have
20:55:37  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: watching Star Trek.. again :P
20:55:44  <TrueBrain> who?
20:55:45  <Xaroth> out of boredom from LDAP >:(
20:55:54  <Rubidium> doctor who!
20:56:01  <TrueBrain> yeah
20:56:18  <TrueBrain> I am overloading my HD with IO :p
20:56:49  <TrueBrain> bah, I had to join freenode for dosbox
20:56:51  <TrueBrain> but nobody is there
20:56:54  <TrueBrain> and freenode annoys me already
20:59:13  <Rubidium> you mean it's less active than this channel?
20:59:26  *** Yexo [] has joined #openttd
21:01:37  <Alberth> they have channels were nothing is said for at least 24 hours, just a few (about 10) people logging on and later off again.
21:02:02  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: there are just a few people there ...
21:02:11  <TrueBrain> 40 people, to be exact
21:02:15  <Rubidium> Alberth: yeah, like #openttd.wt2
21:02:24  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: that channel is removed now, not? :)
21:02:55  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: don't know; I've got no authority to remove it
21:03:05  <TrueBrain> I removed DorpsGek from it
21:03:09  <TrueBrain> and I guess Belugas left by now :p
21:04:02  <Rubidium> yeah, it's empty just not 'killed'
21:04:07  <Alberth> Rubidium: that is to be expected for such a specific program (unlike WT3.1 :) ), I was talking about python-nl. You'd think there are more users for that topic
21:05:45  <glx> #openttd is locked and redirected to ##openttd (which is still not empty :) )
21:06:32  <TrueBrain> hmm .. just figured out the memory I was worried about in dune2, is random in dosbox too .. every run other data :p
21:08:01  *** Azrael- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:08:15  <OwenS> TrueBrain: In other words DosBox doesn't zero it's heap
21:08:36  <TrueBrain> OwenS: no, it is not that ... I think it is related to the timer or something
21:08:54  <OwenS> Aah. Cause if it didn't, I'd be wondering how it acquired it... I mean, the kernel gives out zero'd pages
21:13:07  <TrueBrain> what is very weird, that I have data in my memory at a given location .. and dosbox never touches it :s
21:13:41  <Forked> boink.
21:14:06  <Muxy> zim
21:15:43  <TrueBrain> oeh, someone in #dosbox helped me :)
21:15:45  <TrueBrain> yeah!
21:15:47  <TrueBrain> now I have to leave freenode ..
21:15:57  <OwenS> lol why?
21:16:15  <TrueBrain> because it gives me the creeps!
21:16:17  <glx> because he hate freenode :)
21:16:20  <TrueBrain> I so dislike freenode
21:16:25  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: alberth * r16970 /trunk/src/transparency_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Transparency window uses nested widgets only.
21:16:26  <TrueBrain> within 2 minutes I got spam
21:16:37  <TrueBrain> something about that I NEED to register myself at nickserv
21:16:47  <TrueBrain> really, wtf? And if I dont? Will you punish me?
21:17:11  <TrueBrain> spank me like you mean it?
21:17:43  <OwenS> I was gonna say OFTC did the same to me but it actually complained I was trying to identify against the unregistered nick OwenSX48BD...
21:17:55  <TrueBrain> :p
21:17:58  <Prof_Frink> TrueBrain: Christel might ;)
21:18:19  <TrueBrain> OwenS: OFTC tells me I have a name which is registered, and I should identify if it is me
21:18:21  <TrueBrain> that is acceptable
21:18:31  <TrueBrain> and it does it via a nice notice
21:18:33  <OwenS> I'm waiting until I have two ghosts and have to use OwenSX28AC [<-- Using microcontroller names is fun]
21:18:39  <TrueBrain> not via a message I get in all channels :s
21:19:01  <TrueBrain> Prof_Frink: I like to sound of that, where can I sign up?
21:19:47  <Prof_Frink> Of course, you might get Dave2 instead. That would be bad.
21:20:04  <TrueBrain> yup
21:20:15  <TrueBrain> it seems you hang out too much on freenode
21:20:43  <Prof_Frink> Worse. I hang out in #lugradio.
21:21:53  <Yexo> good night
21:21:58  *** Yexo [] has quit [Quit: bye]
21:23:34  <Nite_Owl> see Prof_Frink you frightened away Yexo with your #lugradio reference
21:25:33  *** Zorni [] has quit [Quit: ( :: NoNameScript 4.2 :: )]
21:27:49  <TrueBrain> haha, I think I found the problem of my memory differences ... :)
21:28:04  <OwenS> :)
21:28:06  <OwenS> I'm kinda disturbed
21:28:08  <OwenS> No spam for 24h
21:28:19  <TrueBrain> from me? :p
21:28:28  <OwenS> No, e-mail
21:28:37  <TrueBrain> bah, and I just started my mail bomber
21:28:39  <TrueBrain> sorry ...
21:28:41  <OwenS> lol
21:29:00  <OwenS> Enabling the SpamHaus Policy Blocklist worked... And it only blocks IP ranges which the owners of say shouldn't be making direct SMTP transactions anyway :p
21:29:34  <TrueBrain> I have programmed my own filtering system
21:29:37  <TrueBrain> works perfectly :)
21:29:45  <OwenS> I.E. it blocks end user DHCP pools, AKA the vast swathes of infected Windows machines =)
21:29:47  <TrueBrain> we offer 99% spam-free mailboxes :)
21:29:51  <TrueBrain> truth is around 99.9%
21:30:15  <Alberth> OwenS: simple but effective
21:30:37  <TrueBrain> 12% is hold by SPF record, 75% by blacklist/blocklist
21:30:49  <TrueBrain> the rest is greylist, SMTP errors, ...
21:30:59  <OwenS> Reminds me to enable SPF in Postfix. And re-add my SPF records
21:31:06  <TrueBrain> SPF is _very_ useful
21:31:16  <TrueBrain> if you want to email me direct, use SPF :p Else you are delayed for at least 5 minutes :)
21:31:28  <TrueBrain> same goes for all mail traffic :p
21:31:45  <TrueBrain> just configure it correctly .. I see too many broken SPF records :p
21:31:47  <OwenS> My SPF record is nice and simple to. "All mail comes from my MX. If it doesn't, it's not from me"
21:31:58  <TrueBrain> it should be like that
21:32:08  <TrueBrain> I see SPF records which say: mail can come from any server
21:32:11  <TrueBrain> yeah .... useful ....
21:32:12  <OwenS> Ouch
21:32:23  <TrueBrain> if you go for softfail, I can understand that
21:32:24  <OwenS> Incidentally, shouldn't MX eventually be replaced by SVR? :p
21:32:27  <TrueBrain> hardfail can be nasty
21:32:30  <TrueBrain> but *?
21:32:37  <TrueBrain> like ever
21:33:01  <OwenS> I mean, everything else is SVR these days...
21:33:10  <TrueBrain> what uses SVR?
21:33:11  <TrueBrain> XMPP
21:33:16  <TrueBrain> that is the only one I know of
21:33:17  <OwenS> Kerberos
21:33:18  <OwenS> LDAP
21:33:46  <TrueBrain> but oaky .. why not put http in SVR?
21:33:51  <TrueBrain> and .. well .. everything in SVR :p
21:34:18  <OwenS> SVR 80 10 heh
21:34:21  <TrueBrain> SIP uses SVR too .. sometimes
21:34:34  <TrueBrain> I mean, SVR redesignes the whole DNS within the DNS protocol
21:34:36  <TrueBrain> I think it is silly
21:35:25  <OwenS> In XMPP/MX type roles it works well
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21:38:07  <Alberth> bye all
21:38:11  <TrueBrain> night Alberth
21:38:37  <OwenS> The purpose of SVR is to allow multiple services on different servers to share a domain :p
21:38:41  *** Alberth [] has left #openttd []
21:40:04  <TrueBrain> OwenS: I guess it could by design also do things like correct Round Robin :p
21:42:20  <OwenS> Random but tangenitally related tangent: I've always wanted to build a massively distributed DHT based caching system
21:43:32  <OwenS> Basically using P2P technology to cache static content at the ISP level
21:43:34  <TrueBrain> DHT? Remind me?
21:43:45  <OwenS> Distributed Hash Table
21:43:51  <TrueBrain> why would you want that?
21:44:15  <OwenS> URL gets fed into cache -> DHT performs lookup, and if it's in the cache somewhere in the world, can grab it without going to the origin
21:44:45  <TrueBrain> ask an ISP if you can do that ;)
21:45:02  *** [1]GregVernon [] has joined #openttd
21:45:05  <TrueBrain> if I was such an ISP, I would let you :)
21:45:15  <OwenS> Need to design it first of course :p
21:45:21  <TrueBrain> oeh, memory problem 'solved' :) I read the wohle EXE file in memory, instead of only the part indicated ;)
21:45:33  <OwenS> Hehe
21:45:58  <glx> overwriting vital part of the memory ?
21:46:07  <TrueBrain> glx: no, it doesn't really matter
21:46:11  <TrueBrain> just comparing was harder
21:46:20  <glx> ha
21:46:36  <TrueBrain> I doubt it fixed my rpoblem
21:46:38  <TrueBrain> but we can check :)
21:46:42  <OwenS> Each 1U unit would probably contain about 256 single chip nodes each of which participates in the cache system
21:47:24  <TrueBrain> OwenS: I once designed a webserver based on RISC CPUs
21:47:32  <TrueBrain> you put N of such chips in a single server
21:47:40  <TrueBrain> and it can host tons of static files
21:47:44  <TrueBrain> for 3W per chip :p
21:48:06  <TrueBrain> nah, dune2 unit movement problems still not fixed :(
21:48:09  <OwenS> These would be special RISC CPUs with useful functions... Like XOR a 128-bit value
21:49:09  <OwenS> Each unit would probably also contain a few "L2 cache" nodes with a blob of SD RAM attached
21:49:37  <Xaroth> OwenS: you're keeping TrueBrain from making OpenDune :P
21:49:45  <OwenS> lol
21:49:49  <TrueBrain> LOL
21:49:57  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: I don't see you contributing
21:50:03  <TrueBrain> :p
21:50:08  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: I'm trying to figure out C/C++ :/
21:50:23  <TrueBrain> fair enough :p
21:50:26  <Xaroth> seeing it's more likely of me learning C/C++ than you learning C# :P
21:50:32  <Xaroth> and that's saying a LOT
21:50:37  <TrueBrain> hehe :)
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21:50:53  <TrueBrain> okay, I have a dosbox cpu dump
21:51:00  <TrueBrain> and a libemu cpu dump (libemu = my emulator)
21:51:05  <TrueBrain> just .. in different formats :p
21:51:21  <OwenS> lol
21:51:40  <TrueBrain> how to compare easily .. hmm ...
21:51:45  <Rubidium> nothing awk/sed shouldn't be able to solve ;)
21:52:03  <TrueBrain> emu_movw(&emu_get_memory16(emu_cs, 0x00,  0x291), emu_dx.x) against mov  cs:[0291],dx               cs:[0291]=0000
21:52:05  <TrueBrain> you tell me :p
21:52:34  <Xaroth> o_O
21:52:36  <TrueBrain> I can correct most things I guess ..
21:52:44  <Xaroth> s/emu_// ?
21:52:45  <TrueBrain> as I am only really interested in register-values
21:54:52  <OwenS> You don't print the value of dx :p
21:55:07  <TrueBrain> no, it prints the current value of cs:[0291]
21:55:14  <OwenS> Aah :p
21:55:43  <OwenS> Value after the insn I assume?
21:55:49  <TrueBrain> nope
21:55:50  <TrueBrain> before
21:55:52  <TrueBrain> the dx value is after it
21:55:59  <TrueBrain> 01F7:00000003  mov  cs:[0291],dx               cs:[0291]=0000         EAX:00000000 EBX:00000000 ECX:000000FF EDX:0000353F ESI:00000000 EDI:00000080 EBP:0000091C ESP:00000080 DS:01E7 ES:01E7 FS:0000 GS:0000 SS:3EEE CF:0 ZF:0 SF:0 OF:0 AF:0 PF:0 IF:1
21:56:01  <TrueBrain> is the full line
21:56:06  <OwenS> Aah
21:56:13  <OwenS> At least REX is illegal in real mode :p
21:56:15  <glx> sane format I'd say
21:56:28  <TrueBrain> yup, very sane format
21:56:43  <OwenS> Why print all the flags seperately rather than just EFLAGS: ? :p
21:56:53  <TrueBrain> because now you know what flags is what
21:56:54  <TrueBrain> dah :p
21:57:27  <glx> cs is a register ?
21:57:33  <TrueBrain> CodeSegment, yes of course
21:57:44  <glx> I don't see it in the dump
21:57:48  <OwenS> 01F7
21:58:02  <glx> of course
21:58:03  <Tefad> CZSOAPI: 0000001
21:58:25  <TrueBrain> Tefad: you were right btw on the memory breakpoint
21:58:37  <Tefad> uh what?
21:58:46  <TrueBrain> you were the one who said that, right?
21:58:50  <TrueBrain> dosbox and memory breakpoint
21:58:52  <TrueBrain> or was it tekky?
21:58:54  <TrueBrain> can't remember
21:58:56  <OwenS> My CPU only has two flags. If I wasn't intending to implement a 16-bit compressed instruction format mode, activated by the LSB of the address, I'd be tempted to stash them in the IP when I push both at once (Mainly interrupts)
21:58:57  <Tefad> probably not me.
21:58:59  <TrueBrain> both starts with Te and is 5 letters long :p
22:00:42  <Rubidium> DaleStan: have you read my IRC PM regarding nforenum and the compile farm?
22:01:24  <TrueBrain> good candidate for a problem: SF:1 in my code, SF:0 in DOSBox code ..
22:01:31  <TrueBrain> just I wish I knew which code it was about .. :p
22:01:34  <OwenS> Aah, sign flag :p
22:03:28  <TrueBrain> happens after an AND statement
22:03:33  <TrueBrain> and wide signextended
22:03:39  <TrueBrain> maybe the sign extension goes wrong ..
22:04:36  <TrueBrain> euhm .. the problem is more hurtful :s
22:05:24  <Xaroth> uh oh
22:05:36  <OwenS> What is it then?
22:05:36  <Xaroth> that sounds like a delay in the release of OD :o
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22:05:51  <TrueBrain> well ... I have a sfw() function and sfb() function
22:05:54  <TrueBrain> one for words, one for bytes
22:05:57  <TrueBrain> in general it is bad to mix those up :p
22:06:13  <glx> and you just did that ?
22:06:14  <Xaroth> hah
22:06:21  <TrueBrain> only for and!
22:06:52  <TrueBrain> not that it changed anything ...
22:06:58  <glx> but and is the most used (with or) I think
22:07:12  <TrueBrain> glx: but the SF flag is rarely checked
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22:07:59  <glx> except by dune2 it seems ;)
22:08:06  <TrueBrain> not to say
22:08:09  <TrueBrain> just a random bug :)
22:08:11  <TrueBrain> I expect more ;)
22:08:16  <DaleStan> Rubidium: Part of it, but I managed to miss the link to the patch.
22:08:21  <DaleStan> Until just now, that is.
22:10:11  *** el[cube] [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:10:16  <TrueBrain> okay, testing now if that changed anything ...
22:11:04  <TrueBrain> nope ... not a thing
22:12:15  <DaleStan> And thanks for your work on this, Rubidium.
22:13:05  <Rubidium> DaleStan: you're fine with the settings?
22:15:02  <DaleStan> They look OK to me, but the "OpenTTD requires the original version of Transport Tycoon Deluxe data files..." paragraph on download-nforenum seems confusing at best.
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22:16:18  <DaleStan> Only thing I know about the PPC problem is that someone (planet maker, maybe?) fixed his problems by using the latest SVN (or whatever) version of gcc.
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22:16:31  <Rubidium> DaleStan: good point ;)
22:19:08  <OwenS> Random question: Is the netx party for r20000 or r25000? :p
22:19:12  <planetmaker> DaleStan: the 4.0.0 version won't compile it with a quite general error along the lines of "error in C-style template" while 4.5 compiles it.
22:19:17  <planetmaker> so yes
22:19:24  <TrueBrain> if you host, 17000 :p
22:19:28  <TrueBrain> (oh, and arrange our travel :p)
22:20:09  <planetmaker> I didn't test 4.4 though
22:20:26  <planetmaker> Later I read that it fixes that problem, too
22:20:34  <planetmaker> iirc
22:20:37  <Rubidium> planetmaker/DaleStan: the compile farm uses the latest (as of 3 months ago) GCC (4.2) that Apple ships
22:21:09  <planetmaker> if it doesn't complain, it's fine.
22:21:39  <Rubidium> planetmaker: it doesn't complain, but it segfaults (at least for you)
22:21:56  <planetmaker> well, that's another error than I had :-)
22:22:25  <planetmaker> but yes.
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22:34:42  <TrueBrain> I open Firefox, press some random button (happened), and it opens a random page .. .. what? :p
22:36:42  <Nite_Owl> need to feed - later all
22:36:45  *** Nite_Owl [] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon]
22:39:46  <OwenS> I want my VPS' network connection =(
22:40:19  <planetmaker> and it still occurs
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22:43:54  <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: your germanophile side coming through? :p
22:44:26  <TrueBrain> where?
22:44:32  <TrueBrain> fuck .. fixed even more flags, still not working :(
22:44:44  <Eddi|zuHause> opening a .de site?
22:44:53  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: ah .. yes .. I guess
22:50:35  <TrueBrain> dosbox always says file 5 ..
22:50:37  <TrueBrain> how annoying
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22:54:55  <Eddi|zuHause2> how very annoying indeed
22:56:58  <TrueBrain> still no luck :'(
22:57:05  <TrueBrain> oh well .. at least fixed a few more errors :)
22:57:06  <TrueBrain> night all!!
22:57:13  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: sorry .. maybe some day :p
22:58:46  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
22:59:46  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: I'm patient :)
22:59:59  <Xaroth> besides, I haven't learnt C yet :)
23:01:38  <OwenS> Night
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23:13:36  <CIA-2> OpenTTD: rubidium * r16971 /extra/website/frontpage/ (templates/frontpage/download.html [Website] -Change: don't show that OpenTTD requires TTD data file for non-OpenTTD downloads
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23:16:36  <Rubidium> DaleStan: now without mentioning that it needs TTD data files
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23:21:53  <Rubidium> if you ever want to redirect to a specific precompiled version use . Human 'raw' searching via (use index.xml for tools). Build logs under <revision>/logs
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23:41:13  <Zuu> Has it been observed that the changelog.txt for last nightly and the one yesterday were zero size?
23:42:36  <Rubidium> not those instances specifically
23:42:44  <Rubidium> but... it's a subversion bug
23:43:15  <Rubidium> it's solved in some newer version of subversion
23:43:46  <Rubidium> but upgrading subversion means upgrading all subversions all over the repository (due to working copy 'upgrades')
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23:46:09  <Rubidium> and because the compile farm consists of about 10 'different' VMs, that'd mean upgrading 10 subversions and their dependencies
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23:54:30  <Zuu> Hmm, I recall now that last time it also was because of subversion. Do you want me to continue to report when it becomes zero size?
23:54:58  <Rubidium> Zuu: there's hardly anything we can do about it 'easily'
23:55:30  <Zuu> Okay, I understand.
23:56:56  <Zuu> I will try to remember that next month or so or whenever it happens again that it is not easily recoverable.
23:58:06  <Rubidium> it should solve itself in a few thousand revisions though ;)
23:58:40  <OwenS> Rubidium: Is the plan currently to stay on Subversion for the forseeable future?
23:59:06  <Rubidium> OwenS: why not?
23:59:22  <OwenS> Just wondering. Lots of projects seem to be migrating away these days
23:59:29  <OwenS> (And I understand why)

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