Log for #openttd on 2nd August 2009:
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00:44:53  <DaleStan> Rubidium: Does your system need -D__CYGWIN__? Mine is fine as long as I have both -DMINGW and -mno-cygwin.
00:45:19  <Rubidium> DaleStan: yes, after I uninstalled gcc4 and installed gcc3
00:45:40  <Rubidium> it fixes the linking issue I was having
00:46:32  <DaleStan> *shrugs* OK. I'll put it in, then.
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00:49:14  <Rubidium> I'll do a final check whether maybe MINGW added enough so __CYGWIN__ isn't needed
00:50:03  <Rubidium> hmm, MINGW does the trick too... odd
00:50:19  <Rubidium> so __CYGWIN__ isn't needed after all
00:50:55  <Rubidium> what does -DMINGW do for magic that it does the same as __CYGWIN__ for linking?
00:51:35  * Rubidium is so happy that he doesn't have to support the windows compilers for OpenTTD ;)
00:51:46  <DaleStan> Well, the code uses MINGW/_MSC_VER/<none-of-the-above> to decide which files to #include; maybe one of them #defines __CYGWIN__?
00:52:03  <Rubidium> that's plausible
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01:11:55  <Rubidium> DaleStan: is there a reason that grfcodec's %.os : %.c rule uses -MD and the %.o : %.c(c) rules use -MMD? Or are they meant to be the same?
01:12:09  <DaleStan> I think they're meant to be the same.
01:14:04  * Rubidium is off trying to get some sleep; night
01:15:02  <DaleStan> The Makefile changes should be committed by the time you get up, then.
01:15:08  <DaleStan> Good night.
01:15:24  <DaleStan> And thanks again for your work, Rubidium.
01:15:48  <Dragoon_Jett> For trains climbing mountains would it be faster for the train to climb two levels at once or  two levels and lets say four sqaures inbeteen each height changes
01:16:29  <DaleStan> I've always been fond of the "try it and see" system. May I recommend it to you?
01:16:43  <Dragoon_Jett> Hmm yes that works too
01:16:58  <Dragoon_Jett> So when I want to see if wood burns should I trust other people or just try it?
01:17:39  <Dragoon_Jett> Ive never seen a gun kill someone should I try it, or trust the news and other peoples knowledge
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01:18:47  <DaleStan> Depends on whether or not you want to know whether or not wood in general burns (Do train climb slopes?) or whether that particular log will burn well. (Which slope is climbed faster?)
01:19:01  <Dragoon_Jett> Which slope is climbed faster
01:19:19  <Dragoon_Jett> For trains climbing mountains would it be faster for the train to climb two levels at once or  two levels and lets say four sqaures inbeteen each height changes
01:19:24  <Dragoon_Jett> climbing mountains would it be faster for the train to climb two levels
01:19:29  <Dragoon_Jett> would it be faster for the train
01:19:32  <Dragoon_Jett> faster
01:20:06  <DaleStan> Then try it and see. I can't tell you if a log I have never seen will burn well, and I can't determine the results of an experiment I've never performed any faster than you can.
01:20:52  <Dragoon_Jett> Thanks, I will ask when a bunch of pricks are not on.
01:21:43  <DaleStan> Or you could try it again when you have a Smart Question:
01:22:48  <Dragoon_Jett> Choose your forum carefully
01:22:58  <Dragoon_Jett> Oh yes well since I am on IRC and dont have a forums account
01:23:03  <Dragoon_Jett> Web and IRC forums directed towards newbies often give the quickest response
01:23:15  <Dragoon_Jett> Oh look the only irc channel I know of for openttd
01:23:30  <Dragoon_Jett> Write in clear, grammatical, correctly-spelled language
01:23:32  <Dragoon_Jett> Did that
01:23:40  <Dragoon_Jett> Describe the problem's symptoms, not your guesses
01:23:42  <Dragoon_Jett> Did that
01:23:49  <Dragoon_Jett> Describe the goal, not the step
01:23:50  <Dragoon_Jett> Did that
01:24:28  <Dragoon_Jett> It would have been quicker to say, hey just level some land between the hight changes or no dont
01:24:36  <Dragoon_Jett> Than trying to prove a stupid point
01:25:44  <DaleStan> It would have been faster for me to start OpenTTD, build two trains, build some track, send them up the track, record the results, and repeat for every possible train length and weight?
01:25:47  <DaleStan> How do you figure?
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01:27:35  <Dragoon_Jett> No...Not really
01:28:20  <Dragoon_Jett> Since I have different weights different trains etc etc going along that track and trying it would well I THOUGHT it would be quicker to just ask some veterns
01:28:34  <Dragoon_Jett> Than disrupt my trains
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06:21:27  <planetmaker> DaleStan: compiling grfcodec: cc1plus: error: -MG may only be used with -M or -MM
06:22:08  <planetmaker> for both, gcc 4.0.1 and gcc 4.5
06:23:20  <planetmaker> on a mac
06:35:30  <DaleStan> If you remove the -MG from Makefile:229, :233, and :252 (But not any of the *.d rules), does that fix things?
06:36:11  <DaleStan> I think that should do the trick, but I don't have gcc 4 installed.
06:36:48  <DaleStan> planetmaker: ^
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07:17:46  <planetmaker> DaleStan: yes, removing it only in that line suffices
07:17:52  <planetmaker> *lines
07:19:36  <DaleStan> Good.
07:21:19  <DaleStan> ... And bother. I failed to audit my changes before committing them. Oh, well. It's not worth the hassle of backing them out.
07:22:30  <planetmaker> hm... I have now (again) a problem with boost...
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07:23:39  <planetmaker> I get "make: *** No rule to make target `boost/date_time/gregorian/gregorian_types.hpp', needed by `readinfo.o'.  Stop."
07:24:07  <planetmaker> but in Makefile.local "BOOST_INCLUDE = /Users/ingo/Download/boost_1_39_0"
07:24:20  <DaleStan> rm readinfo.o.d && make
07:24:35  <planetmaker> shouldn't make clean then do the trick?
07:25:02  <planetmaker> well, but yes, it works :-)
07:25:05  <DaleStan> clean should, but that'll delete all sorts of other things that don't need cleaning.
07:25:09  <planetmaker> thanks
07:25:15  <DaleStan> The new readinfo.o.d shouldn't have any reference to the boost headers.
07:25:33  <planetmaker> no boost anymore?
07:26:27  <planetmaker> he. make clean doesn't delete *.d
07:26:40  <DaleStan> No, I just informed gcc that boost qualifies as a system header, and that system headers aren't to be mentioned.
07:26:43  <planetmaker> ^ that's why make cleanfailed
07:26:45  <planetmaker> I guess
07:27:08  <planetmaker> aeolusreloaded:~/ottd/grfdev/grfcodec ingo$ make clean
07:27:10  <planetmaker> rm -rf *.o *.os *.bin grfcodec grfdiff grfmerge bundle bundles
07:27:33  <DaleStan> Ah. Yes. I was getting annoyed always rebuilding *.o.d when switching between -mcygwin and -mno-cygwin.
07:28:16  <planetmaker> deleting them sounds like a good idea, though :-)
07:28:33  <DaleStan> mrproper will delete *.o.d
07:28:39  <planetmaker> or maybe adding another target like proper... ok
07:29:23  <DaleStan> It will also delete everything else except *.local that's not under version control. Or it should, anyway.
07:30:38  <planetmaker> Just for curiosity: is that distinction between clean and mrproper some kind of standard or convention?
07:31:14  <planetmaker> that said... I still have a lot of files which svn st shows as ? after mrproper
07:31:54  <planetmaker> rm -f *.d .rev version.h grfmrg.c version.h.tmp <-- but I guess that suffices
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07:32:05  <DaleStan> OK, "All files possibly generated by make that are not under version control, including ignored files"
07:32:07  <DaleStan> I copied it from ttdpatch. So probably not.
07:32:36  <planetmaker> ah :-)
07:33:08  <planetmaker> btw, what about an additional target like "install"
07:33:25  <planetmaker> which then installs the binaries in the proper path (set in Makefile.local)?
07:33:56  <planetmaker> I could provide a patch which does that, even with some intelligence concerning paths on mac and linux.
07:34:00  <planetmaker> windows is... difficult
07:34:23  <planetmaker> there's no such thing as a default binary path there.
07:35:03  <DaleStan> C:\windows is always in the path, AFAIK. But I can fiddle with that.
07:35:16  <planetmaker> as every time I built the binaries I usually do a sudo cp <binary> /usr/local/bin
07:41:03  <planetmaker> hm... my OS detection depends on - again - "uname -s".
07:42:18  <planetmaker> I guess $(EXE) could be re-used, though
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07:49:09  <planetmaker> DaleStan: <-- diff for grfcodec
07:50:56  <planetmaker> DaleStan: <-- better that. I forgot to svn up. And the -MG is still in there
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07:54:50  <DaleStan> Then there's the Cygwin and MinGW question: Do I install for Windows, or only for the hosted Linux work-like?
07:55:05  <andythenorth> morning
07:55:47  <planetmaker> morning andythenorth
07:55:49  <DaleStan> I guess I need to see if I can figure out how to access the host with MinGW.
07:55:54  <DaleStan> Morning.
07:56:03  <andythenorth> I am working out a range for ship sizes.
07:56:10  <andythenorth> Smallest useful size?  10t?  20t?
07:56:12  <planetmaker> DaleStan: well... having it accessible in both is best, I guess.
07:56:41  <planetmaker> but I'm using - when in my windows VM - the usual dos command line. And there I just have the usual windows paths (+ mingw / msys)
07:56:59  <DaleStan> Except in the case where Cygwin builds a binary that won't run outside of Cygwin. That case is obvious.
07:57:12  <planetmaker> having it thus in the cygwin / mingw binary path will do as it's then available under windows, too
07:57:26  <planetmaker> ah, ok. I haven't used cygwin. So I didn't know
07:58:13  <OsteHovel> I feel that Mingw is a better way than Cygwin becouse you need the cygwin dll's
07:58:16  <planetmaker> andythenorth: I commited some changes to fish, so that it is sort-of configured
07:58:27  <andythenorth> planetmaker: thanks
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07:58:45  <planetmaker> andythenorth: you could just start to add code to header.pnfo and / or add additional pnfos in ids.pnfo
07:58:58  <planetmaker> It might also need adjustment of the grf name etc
07:59:02  <planetmaker> but that should be obvious
07:59:19  <planetmaker> I just put in something which ... makes a little sense, but not too much ;-)
07:59:51  <Rubidium> morning
08:00:02  <planetmaker> moin Rubidium
08:00:06  <andythenorth> morning
08:00:18  <andythenorth> largest useful ship size?  I am thinking 1200t
08:00:38  <planetmaker> would be huge but for a starter sounds reasonable.
08:00:42  <planetmaker> after all ships are large
08:00:55  <Rubidium> looks like DaleStan committed in time for the compile run
08:01:09  <planetmaker> :-)
08:01:17  <planetmaker> that's about now soon?
08:01:38  <Rubidium> 05:37 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: grfcodec (r2167) completed.
08:01:38  <Rubidium> 06:12 <@DorpsGek> CompileFarm: nforenum (r2168) completed.
08:01:49  <Rubidium> so ~4 hours ago
08:01:56  <planetmaker> ah :-)
08:03:06  <OsteHovel> Can someone be so nice for me and tell me the big diffrence between 0.7 and 0.7.2?
08:03:29  <DaleStan> Have you read the changelog?
08:04:17  <OsteHovel> Nope
08:04:18  <OsteHovel> ;P
08:04:36  <OsteHovel> Are it posible to read it withouth dling the packaes or source?
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08:04:53  <OsteHovel> (im on a mobile connection right now and it aint realy fast...)
08:05:13  <planetmaker> OsteHovel: yes, it is. Go to
08:05:29  <Rubidium> OsteHovel: you never noticed the "changelog" link on the download page?
08:07:57  <OsteHovel> nope i havent, im sorry for asking a so STUPID question
08:08:15  <OsteHovel> (and i forgot that i  just can use "svn changelog" in console(im using linux)
08:08:48  <Rubidium> planetmaker: can you test whether and work with rosetta?
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08:10:25  <planetmaker> both segfault
08:10:33  <OsteHovel> ;( thats a bad thing
08:11:00  <Rubidium> planetmaker: hmm, also with a simple '-h' ?
08:11:19  <planetmaker> have to check. I just unpacked and double clicked the binary
08:11:46  <planetmaker> renum, yes
08:12:00  <Rubidium> planetmaker: does work? (to rule out the compiler)
08:14:30  <planetmaker> Rubidium: that openttd binary successfully loaded one of my savegames
08:15:53  <Rubidium> hmm, guess I need someone with a real PPC proc and OSX to test the grfcodec/nforenum binaries ;)
08:17:30  <planetmaker> he :-P
08:17:36  <Alberth> good morning
08:17:46  <planetmaker> moin Alberth
08:18:28  <Alberth> you replied and my desktop crashed :p
08:18:56  <planetmaker> har har. Damn. Installation of root kit didn't go unnoticed.
08:23:12  <Rubidium> planetmaker: do the PPC nforenum/grfcodec binaries from OTTDcoop work for you?
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08:23:28  <planetmaker> Rubidium: sure. I compiled them
08:23:42  <Rubidium> planetmaker: but they run in rosetta?
08:23:43  <planetmaker> on this computer. But andythenorth told me that they don't work for him
08:24:45  <planetmaker> What was it again how I could tell?
08:25:14  <planetmaker> I mean... why should they, if I'm on an intel machine...
08:26:21  <OsteHovel> If you need to test OSX binaries on a real PPC aint it posible to use a Emualtor?(If noone got a PPC machine)
08:26:28  <OsteHovel> *Emulator
08:26:41  <Rubidium> OsteHovel: OSX doesn't like emulators
08:26:49  <planetmaker> OsteHovel: Rosetta IS the emulator... kind of
08:27:17  <OsteHovel> You got a Intel MAC?
08:27:21  <planetmaker> yes
08:27:27  <Rubidium> so andythenorth ... you're using a PPC Mac?
08:27:41  <andythenorth> ^ no, intel
08:27:50  <planetmaker> I guess it was 10.4 vs .10.5 issue with libraries
08:28:07  <Rubidium> bummer...
08:28:14  <Rubidium> where's Bjarni when you need him
08:28:16  <planetmaker> dihedral: should have one
08:28:44  <planetmaker> a G4 macbook wasn't available with intel processor
08:29:11  <planetmaker> where's dihedral when one could need him? ;-)
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08:32:25  <OsteHovel> Always when you need somebody they not there
08:33:14  <planetmaker> andythenorth: but as you have another system... you might want to try nevertheless. Maybe both, Rubidium and mine, the latest ones.
08:34:14  <andythenorth> I have Leopard 10.5.7 on a 2.5 intel core duo 2 - if that's any help??
08:34:41  <planetmaker> at least I'd like to know whether the dmg might work for you which I produced yesterday
08:34:45  <Rubidium> planetmaker: talking about testing Intel or PPC binaries?
08:34:59  <planetmaker> both :-)
08:35:27  <planetmaker> In the case of your binaries: whether the ppc one works. In case of mine: whether bundle_dmg levies the library issues
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08:35:44  <Rubidium> <- PPC with gcc 4.2, <- PPC with gcc 4.0
08:36:06  <Rubidium> <- Intel with gcc 4.0
08:36:25  <planetmaker> <-- the dmg I produced.
08:41:00  <OsteHovel> Do someone here know how to test IPv6 connectivity becouse i got a server connected directly to internet so it got both a IPv4 and IPv6 adress, how can i test IPv6?
08:41:24  <Rubidium> OsteHovel: step 1) download openttd-trunk
08:41:52  <OsteHovel> thats not hard
08:42:00  <Rubidium> step 2) open the multiplayer window and see if "AutoNightly IPv6 Server / EoD" is there
08:42:04  <OsteHovel> ok ;D
08:42:58  <Rubidium> or whether you see an unresolved IPv6 address in the list
08:44:16  <Rubidium> (I can't connect to it at the moment so for me it shows up as an unresolved IPv6 address)
08:45:01  <Rubidium> oh, another thing is: go to If the logo (the $) says IPv6 next to is you're using IPv6
08:45:24  <Rubidium> or ping6
08:48:39  <OsteHovel> ok
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08:56:59  <OsteHovel> I diddent work ;( with ping6
08:57:17  <Rubidium> then you're likely not using IPv6
08:57:33  <OsteHovel> that was i touth too
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09:12:31  <OsteHovel> Yeee
09:12:35  <OsteHovel> I got it worrking
09:12:50  <OsteHovel> Using Hurricane Electric's free IPv6 Tunneling
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09:17:01  <Rubidium> salut Yexo
09:17:13  <Yexo> morning Rubidium
09:17:52  <planetmaker> moin Yexo
09:19:04  <Yexo> hi planetmaker
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09:38:43  <planetmaker> hm...
09:38:55  <planetmaker> error 404 when I tried to log in into translator
09:39:20  <planetmaker> or rather when I entered my credentials, the next page showing was the 404
09:40:38  <planetmaker> but obviously I entered the correct credentials as the website shows me as logged in and after going to development and then clicking on webtranslator, I don't need to log in
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09:46:06  <TrueBrain> [00:39] <Eddi|zuHause> a friend had an article about reviving graphics cards by putting them into the oven at 100?C for 30 minutes, could that work with mainboards, too? <- omg ... he didn't really say that, did he? :s :p :p
09:46:19  <TrueBrain> planetmaker: known, browser fucking up redirecting .. shit happens :)
09:46:39  <planetmaker> he... ok. I added a FS entry right this moment
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10:24:07  <frosch123> hmm, fireworks at 12:25 :s
10:24:43  <Rubidium> yeah, why not?
10:24:55  <Rubidium> otherwise it wakes the elderly
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10:41:07  <TrueBrain> ARGH! Why does my speaker set pickup a radio station
10:41:09  <TrueBrain> why :(
10:41:13  <TrueBrain> it is fucking annoying
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10:43:04  <LadyHawk> lmao
10:43:14  <LadyHawk> i had that in holland
10:43:27  <LadyHawk> like very quiet music going through your speakers for no reason
10:43:53  <TrueBrain> the reason why is very simple
10:43:56  <TrueBrain> the soluton ... much less
10:44:04  <TrueBrain> I wish they would stop doing analog transmissions :p
10:44:29  <LadyHawk> ah =P
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10:51:15  <valhallasw> TrueBrain: increase the output volume on your computer and decrease it on your speaker set? :P
10:52:11  <TrueBrain> valhallasw: it doesn't depend on the volume of my amp
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10:52:24  <TrueBrain> it runs on its own power :p Stupid airwaves :p
10:52:55  <valhallasw> oh, the pickup happens in the speaker cables?
10:53:26  <valhallasw> sounds reasonable as the input cables are probably shielded :P
10:53:43  <TrueBrain> input is fiber :p
10:54:07  <valhallasw> right :P
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10:59:24  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17031 /extra/ottd_grf/split/ (airports.pcx flags.pcx openttdgui.pcx): [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: warnings about pure white sprites; make them 'unpure' white (FCFCFC)
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11:27:20  <TrueBrain> there is a fly on my screen - oh no, it is my mouse
11:30:42  <frosch123> never smash something on your screen
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11:33:10  <TrueBrain> OsteHovel: can you make up your mind? Staying or not? :)
11:40:12  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17032 /extra/ottd_grf/ (COPYING split/openttd.nfo): [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: make it more clear how the GRFs are licensed (if it would be downloaded as something separate)
11:41:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17033 /extra/ottd_grf/ (Makefile split/shore.nfo):
11:41:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: grfcodec warning about number of sprites (0 instead of X) by using nforenum
11:41:43  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [OTTD_GRF] -Fix: nforenum warning about wrong number of sprites for shores; it's a special-special case, so disable the warning
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11:44:41  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17034 /trunk/bin/data/ (5 files): -Update: openttd[dw].grf from ottd grf.
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12:06:23  <TrueBrain> @kban OsteHovel 60 please come back if you have the intentions to stay; thank you.
12:06:24  *** mode/#openttd [+b *!] by DorpsGek
12:06:24  *** OsteHovel was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [please come back if you have the intentions to stay; thank you.]
12:07:26  *** mode/#openttd [-b *!] by DorpsGek
12:11:33  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: WT3.1 is going to have support for adding cases, right?
12:11:47  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I sure hope so :)
12:11:50  <TrueBrain> oh, I forgot to tell you
12:11:56  <TrueBrain> I redirected a user to you to add him a case
12:12:13  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17035 /trunk/src/lang/turkish.txt: -Add: case to Turkish
12:12:17  <Rubidium> didn't know you redirected him ;)
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12:12:29  <TrueBrain> now you do ;)
12:12:40  <OsteHovel^PDA> Ye i found out the client was useless
12:12:49  <OsteHovel^PDA> using another one now
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12:13:58  <TrueBrain> from 1:09 to 0:44
12:14:06  <TrueBrain> it is getting into an acceptable range, my import :)
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12:17:17  <OsteHovel^PDA> I hope i diddent cause too much damage
12:19:07  <valhallasw> nah, just a dozen joins/parts :p
12:19:25  <valhallasw> parts and/or quits
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12:34:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17036 /trunk/ (6 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: Split price bases from economy.cpp to table/pricebase.h.
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12:37:59  <OsteHovel^Atom> What IRC clients do you guys use? (I use Xchat on windows & Linux, and PocketIRC on Windows Mobile)
12:41:02  <xmakina> OsteHovel^Atom: mIRC
12:41:11  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;D
12:41:23  <TrueBrain> why would one even want to use IRC on its mobile ..
12:41:34  <OsteHovel^Atom> Ooo long time since i update last time, that was back in march
12:42:03  <OsteHovel^Atom> (when you have a pda with keyboard and unlimited data plan you need have something to do sometimes)
12:42:25  <TrueBrain> it is the most useless invention, as your connection drops more often than apples fall from a tree
12:42:30  <OsteHovel^Atom> Hmm
12:42:34  <OsteHovel^Atom> That depend on what client you use
12:42:35  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;p
12:42:50  <OsteHovel^Atom> I was testing out Talkonaut with XMPP gateway IRC ;P
12:42:54  <OsteHovel^Atom> and that dident whent so good
12:43:10  <TrueBrain> next time, test on some other channel, and don't bug us with your endless joins and leaves
12:43:15  <OsteHovel^Atom> true
12:43:20  <OsteHovel^Atom> it will not be a nexttime
12:43:46  <OsteHovel^Atom> the problem what that i coudent see that i even was leaving/joining this channel it was like i was into it all the time
12:44:37  <OsteHovel^Atom> But it was useless anyway so, im back to the good old PocketIRC that never reconnects if it loses its connection but it does not loose its connection often either(only when your battery runs out))
12:45:01  *** andythenorth [~andy@] has quit [Quit: andythenorth]
12:45:33  <OsteHovel^Atom> (compiinging the newest trunk of svn on my sucky laptop that has a 1.6 ghz cpu, and it takes AGES...)
12:45:43  <OsteHovel^Atom> (but its worth it becouse openttd is SOO GOOD)
12:47:44  <OsteHovel^Atom> Do the donated cash only go to hold the servers up and running or do some of it goes to the developer of this GOOD game?
12:48:01  <TrueBrain> for now it is only to keep our services up and running
12:48:12  <planetmaker> OsteHovel^Atom, xchat works here. Stable 24/7
12:48:33  <planetmaker> way more stable than firefox.
12:48:34  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;D xchat has never crashed for me ;D
12:48:37  <planetmaker> Or kde itself actually
12:48:40  <OsteHovel^Atom> hehe
12:48:44  <OsteHovel^Atom> way more stable the opera too
12:48:53  <OsteHovel^Atom> than*
12:49:14  <OsteHovel^Atom> gonna donate some of the cash i got left
12:51:08  <TrueBrain> much appreciated :)
12:51:53  <OsteHovel^Atom> (doante finished)
12:52:30  <planetmaker> I tried twice... I don't use paypal and they don't accept a credit card without registering at that damned company
12:52:38  <planetmaker> And I'll rather go to hell than register with paypal.
12:52:45  <OsteHovel^Atom> hehe
12:53:04  <OsteHovel^Atom> i use paypal and i got my credit card registered (i know its a bad company but it works)
12:53:21  <OsteHovel^Atom> tried Bank transfer ?
12:53:24  <planetmaker> I won't register there. Least with my credit card.
12:53:38  <planetmaker> Owen tried to always talk me into using that...
12:53:57  <planetmaker> ... insisting that it works without paypal account. But I didn't figure.
12:54:09  <xmakina> planetmaker - they can't recklessly steal your money - the most evil thing they do is freeze accounts linked to stolen credit cards
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12:54:14  <OsteHovel^Atom> what country do you live in?
12:54:18  <planetmaker> DE
12:54:21  <OsteHovel^Atom> hmm
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12:54:46  <planetmaker> xmakina, I don't care what they do. If I'm not a customer of them, they cannot do anything.
12:54:54  <OsteHovel^Atom> i did think they accepted withouth registered
12:55:02  <planetmaker> I just read enought that I know that I don't want business of any kind with them.
12:55:05  <OsteHovel^Atom> i only got my credit card(not debet) registered there
12:55:20  <OsteHovel^Atom> so i can get my money back if they even wanna to try to scam me
12:55:26  <planetmaker> OsteHovel^Atom, maybe it's a shortcoming on my part. But then I just didn't figure out how.
12:55:31  <OsteHovel^Atom> hmm
12:55:47  <OsteHovel^Atom> i will try to read on their complicated webpae
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12:57:02  <planetmaker> on the other hand, my bank is bad, too: I cannot do international money transfer online :-(
12:57:17  <planetmaker> I need to go there in person.
12:57:18  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;(
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12:57:57  <OsteHovel^Atom> And for registering your credit card at paypal also takes time
12:57:57  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;p
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12:59:15  <OsteHovel^Atom> its hopeless to find any information on their page
13:01:50  <OsteHovel^Atom> planetmaker: If you nice i found this picture in the screenshots part of the openttd page and since you live in DE i touth you coud transelate the 2 last lines at the bottom right of the picture:
13:02:07  <OsteHovel^Atom> Do it says that openttd has problems with 64-bit?
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13:03:04  <TrueBrain> OsteHovel^Atom: you did notice that the article is about 0.3.4, right?
13:03:09  <OsteHovel^Atom> ye i did
13:03:35  <OsteHovel^Atom> i found out after i said that in the chat
13:04:32  <Eddi|zuHause> and it says the problems are solved
13:04:40  <OsteHovel^Atom> ok ;D
13:05:04  <OsteHovel^Atom> hmm its not so long until r20000 ;D
13:06:28  <OsteHovel^Atom> hmm im gonna try if i can get openttd to join the ipv6 server that woud have been cool ;D
13:06:43  <OsteHovel^Atom> for once in my life use ipv6 for something usefull
13:08:20  <Eddi|zuHause> you could wait 10 years until everybody and his mom uses ipv6 ;)
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13:17:17  <Ammler> I don't get it, why ipv6 isn't downwards compatible
13:17:24  <TrueBrain> it is
13:17:53  <Ammler> oh, hmm, someone said, you can only join ipv6 servers with ipv6
13:17:59  <TrueBrain> yup
13:18:06  <TrueBrain> but what has that to do with downwards compatible? :)
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13:18:44  <TrueBrain> I mean .. you can run 32bit apps on a 64bit system, but on a 32bit system you can't run 64bit apps
13:18:50  <TrueBrain> does this mean it is not downward compatbile?
13:19:03  <Ammler> yes, this is.
13:19:24  <Ammler> so translated it would mean, you can join ipv4 servers with ipv6
13:19:42  <TrueBrain> FFFF::<ipv4> is a valid IPv6
13:20:05  <TrueBrain> (it depends heavily on your network if you can in fact reach the IPv4, but that is another story I guess
13:20:28  <Ammler> [15:18] <TrueBrain> yup <- so this should be no ;-)
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13:20:59  <TrueBrain> no, I agreed with your statement that you can only join IPv6 servers over an IPv6 connection
13:21:12  <TrueBrain> so it should be 'yup', and I know this because I said 'yup'
13:21:14  <Ammler> it isn't mine :-)
13:22:09  <Ammler> so you need for a time both or some ipv6->ipv4 proxies?
13:22:27  <OwenS> :O
13:22:29  <OwenS> <3 Sun
13:22:35  <OwenS> Solaris rm refuses to do rm -rf /
13:23:15  <Ammler> and why is that good?
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13:23:29  <Sacro> iirc you can tell linux not t o
13:23:32  <OwenS> Ammler: Give me one valid reason do do an rm -rf /?
13:24:06  <Rubidium> OwenS: when there are multiple rogue directories of one character in the root
13:24:09  <Ammler> dunno, but if I want do it, why should it refuse?
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13:25:00  <OwenS> Because people rarely intend to do it but scripts often do rm -rf $var/$var2, then end up without var and var2 defined
13:26:27  <Alberth> 'set -u'   to protect against that in bash :)
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13:28:03  <Alberth> is there a simple way to get the AI debug window opened?
13:28:21  <TrueBrain> click on the menu :p
13:28:22  <Ammler> start without ai
13:28:23  <TrueBrain> hehe
13:28:45  <Yexo> start an AI with empty start function
13:29:01  <Yexo> or load a savegame with such an AI
13:29:30  <Rubidium> remove all AIs and start one
13:29:58  <Alberth> price for the best solution goes to Ammler and Rubidium :)
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13:31:40  <Rubidium> hmm, I think I've added the 1905 dependencies in the wrong order :(
13:31:58  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;(
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13:33:11  <Alberth> I can solve them the other way around :)
13:34:23  <OsteHovel^Atom> a good benchmarking tool of cpu is infact to compile openttd ;D
13:35:28  <Rubidium> there, reversed the dependencies ;)
13:35:32  <Alberth> you should take something, like KDE or gcc :p
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13:37:30  <Rubidium> grr... my laptop doesn't like water cooling... stupid rain!
13:37:38  <TrueBrain> rain?
13:37:39  <LadyHawk> lmao!
13:37:48  <LadyHawk> oh wait, that's not funny
13:37:57  <TrueBrain> LadyHawk: yes it is
13:38:01  <LadyHawk> lol
13:41:08  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;P
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13:48:45  <OsteHovel^Atom> Hmm do anyone of you know how to force SDl to use a spesific output mode?
13:49:52  <Rubidium> using environment variables
13:49:53  <OsteHovel^Atom> no worries i found out
13:51:29  <TrueBrain> you have the tendancy to ask a question and have a second later the answer .. maybe you should delay the asking part
13:51:34  <OsteHovel^Atom> true
13:51:35  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;p
13:51:42  <OsteHovel^Atom> or maybe not ask at all and try to ask google insted
13:51:55  <Rubidium> that's still asking
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13:56:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17037 /trunk/src/ (economy.cpp economy_type.h table/pricebase.h): -Fix (r17036): 'Polygonal Capabilities' are a core feature of windows.
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13:58:23  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17038 /trunk/src/network/network_content.cpp: -Fix (r17015): don't download the stuff we already have
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14:02:07  <OsteHovel^Atom> Its sooo cool
14:02:15  <OsteHovel^Atom> ive joined the IPv6 server ;D
14:04:18  <OsteHovel^Atom> What compiler do you use to make the MAC binaries for OpenTTD?
14:05:39  <TrueBrain> gcc
14:10:09  <OwenS> Is there any choice besides GCC and LLVM-GCC? :p
14:11:01  <Rubidium> yes, build your own compiler
14:13:31  <OwenS> I suppose maybe TCC? :p
14:15:48  <Rubidium> unlikely
14:16:58  <OwenS> Now you have made me curious as to whether OpenTTD builds with Open64...
14:17:15  <Rubidium> that's very well untested
14:18:51  <OwenS> AMD Open64, SunCC... I could have a field day of testing with weird compilers :p
14:22:03  <OsteHovel^Atom> someone tested icc (intels compiler)?
14:22:28  <planetmaker> someone did.
14:22:34  <planetmaker> The commit log tells you who :-P
14:26:24  <OsteHovel^Atom> ooo look what i found:
14:26:25  <OsteHovel^Atom> r16298 | rubidium | 2009-05-13 19:46:41 +0200 (on., 13 mai 2009) | 2 lines
14:26:25  <OsteHovel^Atom> -Change: silence some pointless/unsolveable ICC warnings/remarks (multicharacter character literal potential unportable/autovectorised this loop)
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14:28:36  <Rubidium> and it warns again; can't be bothered to fix it though
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14:31:42  <OsteHovel^Atom> hehe
14:31:50  <OsteHovel^Atom> you use ICC as default?
14:32:11  <Rubidium> no
14:33:26  <Rubidium> though over night I run a script that updates gcc-trunk, gcc-4.4, gcc-lto, llvm and after that compiles a few repositories with those compilers
14:34:14  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;D
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14:54:54  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17039 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16988): segfault when removing rail with waypoint remover and vice versa
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15:14:08  <OwenS> Hallelujah for spare routers
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15:28:57  <OwenS> OK
15:29:08  <OwenS> Hallelujah for spare routers, but expect some funny business? O_o
15:30:08  <OwenS> "DownStream Connection Speed	224 kbps" Though I wasn't expecting *that* kind of funny business
15:30:21  <TrueBrain> poor OwenS
15:30:45  <OwenS> I think my connection issues may be explained by the fact that my BT router just died however
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15:57:49  <OsteHovel^Atom> You use BlueTooth for internet?
16:00:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i'm fairly certain he meant "British Telecom"
16:00:27  <OsteHovel^Atom> Aaaa
16:00:27  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;P
16:00:28  <OsteHovel^Atom> Lol
16:00:29  <OsteHovel^Atom> ;P
16:00:33  <OsteHovel^Atom> Im so stupid sometimes
16:00:42  <TrueBrain> I couldn't have said it better myself
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16:04:53  <Ammler> and you aren't alone :-)
16:05:33  <TrueBrain> Ammler: you feel yourself included in that group of stupid people? :)
16:05:45  <Ammler> yes, very much.
16:05:56  <TrueBrain> hihi
16:05:58  <TrueBrain> you are silly
16:06:00  <Ammler> well "sometimes"
16:06:11  <TrueBrain> you sometimes feel yourself included
16:06:15  <TrueBrain> but other times you don't?
16:06:16  <Ammler> :P
16:06:20  <TrueBrain> you can't play both ways
16:08:35  <Eddi|zuHause> so... the HDD works again, but the question is for how long?
16:08:45  <TrueBrain> 5 minutes, 3 seconds and 12 msec
16:08:50  <TrueBrain> give or take
16:08:58  <Eddi|zuHause> there are 425GB on there, and i only have 290GB free on the other devices
16:09:18  <TrueBrain> so time to buy a new HD :p
16:09:28  <TrueBrain> can I suggest a WD 1 TB 32mb cache?
16:09:31  <TrueBrain> external, if you prefer
16:09:32  <Eddi|zuHause> i did that already
16:09:36  <Eddi|zuHause> half a year ago
16:09:53  <Eddi|zuHause> it's already full ;)
16:10:37  <OwenS> TrueBrain: WD? I agree.
16:10:52  <OwenS> By choice I'll always pick WD hard disks
16:10:53  <TrueBrain> all ours servers run on WD .. rarely any problems :)
16:11:09  <Eddi|zuHause> i agree...
16:11:13  <OwenS> I have a many year old 16GB WD here, thats still working fine
16:11:17  <TrueBrain> (and we use the RAID III, so you can expect a bit of quality I guess ;))
16:11:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i'll never buy anything else again
16:11:35  <OwenS> Seagate 80GB has died on me
16:11:36  <Ammler> RAID III doesn't need quality ;-)
16:11:58  <TrueBrain> Ammler: this being one of those moments you feel included, I guess?
16:12:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i have 80MB WD here, but i don't know if it still works ;)
16:12:13  <Ammler> well, you need good disks, if you don't use RAID
16:12:36  <OwenS> You want good disks with RAID anyway
16:12:46  <TrueBrain> Ammler: LOL! Yeah ... maybe for your workstation; besides that, it is a typo of disk WD produces
16:12:51  <Ammler> but that isn't a sign of quality
16:12:55  <TrueBrain> typo = type
16:12:58  <Eddi|zuHause> so... i have about 150GB in unconverted videos and 150GB in uncut videos... i really need get them done...
16:13:03  <Eddi|zuHause> +to
16:13:38  <TrueBrain> Ammler:
16:13:40  <TrueBrain> those to be exact
16:13:44  <TrueBrain> they have a MUCH higher MMTF
16:13:51  <TrueBrain> MTBF
16:13:54  <TrueBrain> sigh, typing is so hard today
16:14:03  <Eddi|zuHause> must be the weather
16:14:38  <OwenS> I love how all hard disk pictures are taken with the cover off
16:14:57  <TrueBrain> last time I opened a HD here to show my roommates how it looked
16:15:00  <TrueBrain> they were more than suprised
16:15:24  <Ammler> my private server runs without RAID since aroud 5 years from time to time, I add a a disk to the LVM
16:15:54  <TrueBrain> Ammler: not using RAID for servers is not an option
16:16:01  <TrueBrain> that is stupid, in a category I don't even want to start talking about :)
16:16:01  <Ammler> agree
16:16:53  * TrueBrain picks up to phone and calls a random customer: "yes, sorry sir, all your data was lost because one disk crashed. Yes, we do have backups, but they are 48 hours old. I hope it is not a problem that you lost 150 very important emails and all your customer orders of the last 48 hours? No? Pfew. Well, good day"
16:16:55  <OwenS> Anyone else wonder what the profit model is for Gravatar? :p
16:16:59  <Ammler> well, the server is just an even older desktop
16:17:29  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17040 /trunk/src/lang/ (45 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3081]: inconsistency between signs of stations and waypoints
16:17:36  <TrueBrain> OwenS: none, I guess?
16:17:41  <Ammler> my backup for those data is the Internet ;-)
16:17:52  <OwenS> TrueBrain: I guess the same :p
16:17:52  <KenjiE20> OwenS: not really, it obviously comes off the back or moveabletype's revenue
16:18:07  <Rubidium> the "1) X, 2) ???, 3) profit"-model
16:18:08  <TrueBrain> obviously, yes
16:18:16  <Eddi|zuHause> i have "backup" as well, but not for the uncut and unconverted recordings
16:18:22  <OwenS> KenjiE20: You mean Automaitc, aka
16:18:27  <KenjiE20> yea them
16:18:41  <KenjiE20> whichever, they pretty closely tied now
16:19:00  <OwenS> Yes. But it's still entirely a loss maker!
16:19:26  <Eddi|zuHause> what's a gravatar and a moveabletype?
16:20:25  <Eddi|zuHause> i feel like i'm getting old and these young people talk about their version of a "computer" (who needs this modern shit anyways?)
16:21:17  <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, my great-grandmother was afraid of washing machines
16:21:48  <OwenS> Movable Type: 1 of the first blogging platforms
16:21:55  <OwenS> Gravatar:
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16:22:22  <Eddi|zuHause> that's what i'm telling... i'm afraid of blogs :p
16:22:42  * KenjiE20 doesn't blog on his blog :P
16:23:51  <KenjiE20> blog is a daft phrase anyway, it's just reverse chornological posts, which is pretty much every site ever
16:24:47  <Eddi|zuHause> well, it needs a fancy 2.0 name
16:24:59  * KenjiE20 wanders back to poking review text into readable-ness
16:24:59  <Eddi|zuHause> else it isn't hip
16:26:25  <OwenS> Out of curiosity... Anyone know of a Linux tool which will listen for RIP advertisements and add them to it's routing table? :p
16:26:57  <andythenorth> grr cargo refits
16:26:59  <Rubidium> why did they use that TLA?
16:29:33  <andythenorth> how can I ensure a vehicle is refittable to *all* cargos?
16:29:48  <andythenorth> I have FF FF for refittable cargo classes
16:30:03  <andythenorth> I have 00 00 for non-refittable classes
16:30:17  <andythenorth> I have 00 00 00 00 for cargo types available for refitting
16:30:24  <andythenorth> I have FF for cargo type
16:30:44  <andythenorth> This seems to work, but I have no quick way of proving it
16:30:54  <andythenorth> (for all sets that define cargos)
16:31:21  <DaleStan> That works for all cargos that are a member of at least one class.
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16:31:49  <DaleStan> Including Pikka's dummy "regearing" cargo.
16:31:56  <andythenorth> hmm
16:32:03  <andythenorth> I have a translation table in this set btw
16:33:03  <Ammler> how long do you keep nightly binaries?
16:35:06  <DaleStan> The translation table does not affect the class-based-refit properties, and since the bitmask makes no changes, any affects the translation table has on it are moot.
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16:36:16  <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: a month or so...
16:36:28  <andythenorth> DaleStan: ok thanks.  FF 03 seems to exclude Pikka's Gear Ratio cargo.  Pikka has explained all of this to me at least  once before, but I simply find refitting baroque :|
16:36:54  <Ammler> more so :-) it looks like the cleanup is a manual taks
16:37:10  <Ammler> or 5 monts
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16:39:57  <andythenorth> 'nother dumb nfo question - when engine pool is active, how does a newgrf disable default TTD vehicles?
16:40:22  <andythenorth> ^^ I never wanted that for HEQS.  Ships are different
16:40:39  <DaleStan> I think it doesn't. Not directly, anyway.
16:40:58  <andythenorth> eGRVTS 'does' but maybe not intentionally.
16:41:09  <Ammler> it does, afaik, but you can enable them again
16:41:13  <Rubidium> just replace all ships
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16:41:23  <Rubidium> (I think)
16:41:28  <Rubidium> otherwise you've got to ask petern
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16:41:45  <Ammler> isn't that the reason for the default engine grf
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16:42:14  <andythenorth> Rubidium: yup if I use ID 01 in my grf, default ship 01 goes that'll do it.
16:45:52  <frosch123> just zero the climate property for all vehicles
16:46:04  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17041 /trunk/src/graph_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#3083] (r14735): graphical glitch with graph key
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16:51:55  <andythenorth> Should modern cargo ships (small coasters and riverboats) be refittable to passengers?
16:52:11  <andythenorth> i.e. what do you guys think?
16:57:03  <Brianetta> I think they should be refittable to restaurants
16:58:09  <planetmaker> andythenorth, why not?
16:58:30  <planetmaker> after all, even the conversion from, say, piece goods to bulk is a similar expensive endeavour
16:59:32  <andythenorth> planetmaker: ok I'll run with it.  Wonder if I need to adjust the capacity though.  1200 passengers on a coaster is a lot...even for people smugglers :0
17:00:14  <planetmaker> andythenorth, well. A refit can change capacity, can't it?
17:00:21  <andythenorth> believe so
17:00:22  <planetmaker> I'd go with 1/3 or so.
17:00:30  <planetmaker> or even less.
17:00:43  <andythenorth> given a choice of default cargos, any preference?  Coal is the usual
17:01:00  <Rubidium> yeah, stacking of passengers isn't as good as stacking coal
17:01:19  <Rubidium> usually only ~2 meter of people can be stacked
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17:05:12  <andythenorth> 'Barge Tow' or 'Barge Train' ?? - this is for tug + n barges
17:05:45  <andythenorth> Actually, I think 'Tow Boat' is my favourite
17:10:59  <Eddi|zuHause> i think there should be "water types" like "rail types", so ocean liners couldn't go through rivers or regular channels, and riverboats would have reduced stability on ocean
17:12:52  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: there are speed properties for canals / open ocean
17:13:20  <andythenorth> if we're inventing new types, I think we could make more use of road types ;)
17:13:32  * KenjiE20 pushes the publish button, that'll do for that review I think
17:13:35  <andythenorth> meanwhile, I can limit the speed of canal boats at sea, and vice versa
17:14:35  <Eddi|zuHause> i presume the introduction of road types does not need to be discussed ;)
17:14:39  <andythenorth> ach, unpopular question.  I'm *pretty* certain that there is still a limit of 15 ships in current trunk, despite having been told otherwise on the forums
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17:14:51  <andythenorth> evidence is that I can't get more than 15 ships to appear in buy menu
17:14:52  <andythenorth> :(
17:15:15  <andythenorth> not complaining, just saying the documentation might be out of sync with the implementation
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17:15:22  <Eddi|zuHause> make a bug report and give a sample grf
17:16:43  <Eddi|zuHause> that's the general rule with grf errors, the authors need to tell about them, the developers can't test every corner case
17:18:10  <andythenorth> still testing, might be something I've done
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17:21:51  <frosch123> there is no such ship limit anymore
17:22:02  <frosch123> and afaik the canal/ocean speed fraction is ttdp only
17:24:14  <andythenorth> ^^ 'ship limit' non-existent.   My fail.
17:24:30  <andythenorth> I can live without the ocean / canal business
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17:36:28  <bb10> Will we be able to install openttd with opengfx straight from the installer? :P
17:37:04  <Rubidium> if opengfx is complete enough that might eventually become reality
17:37:17  <Rubidium> although that depends on what installer you're talking about
17:37:33  <Sacro> ho hum
17:37:41  <bb10> the openttd installer
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17:39:38  <Rubidium> bb10: there are installers (to varying degrees) for different platforms
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17:40:09  <Rubidium> e.g. for Debian and Gentoo
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17:40:43  <Rubidium> and depending on how you install with those systems it might or might not install opengfx
17:40:48  <bb10> win32 and win64 :P
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17:41:57  <keoz> on gentoo, I could install opengfx without problems
17:41:58  <Rubidium> that installer might get the ability to download OpenGFX, but likely not before it's finished
17:42:17  <keoz> (but using the built-in downloader of openttd)
17:42:20  <Rubidium> keoz: it's in emerge?
17:42:49  <keoz> openttd can be installed via emerge, but opengfx has to be installed manually
17:43:05  <keoz> (i mean, I can do it via the built-in resources downloader)
17:43:31  <Rubidium> keoz: that isn't available if you don't have a base graphics set, like the original graphics or OpenGFX
17:44:24  <bb10> ^
17:44:30  <Rubidium> and what bb10 asked was "install openttd with opengfx straight from the installer", not "install openttd with the installer and then manually download opengfx and put it in the right place"
17:45:02  <keoz> oh, sorry, didn't read the entire discussion
17:45:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17042 /trunk/src/lang/ (11 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed)
17:45:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 35 changes by arnaullv
17:45:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: danish - 3 changes by silentStatic
17:45:51  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 30 changes by agenthh
17:45:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frisian - 133 changes by huddekul
17:45:52  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 6 changes by Roujin
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17:58:03  <TrueBrain> # stop this beat is killing me
17:59:04  <Eddi|zuHause> missing interpunctation
17:59:34  <TrueBrain> there are a lot of things missing here
18:00:12  <Rubidium> yup, my cookie for you has gone missing
18:00:43  <Eddi|zuHause> the word you seek is "eaten" :)
18:00:59  <Rubidium> I am not aware that it has been eaten
18:02:38  <TrueBrain> then where is it?!
18:03:03  <Eddi|zuHause> maybe not by yourself?
18:03:22  <Rubidium> it ascended into a higher plane of existence
18:03:28  <TrueBrain> poor thing
18:03:31  <TrueBrain> I feel sad for it
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18:26:45  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17043 /trunk/src/ai/ai_instance.cpp: -Change [NoAI]: Load the API before compiling an AI script so AIs can subclass API classes and use API constants as part of their own constants
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18:55:02  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17044 /trunk/src/ai/ai_gui.cpp: -Codechange: ai windows use nested widget tree.
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19:05:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17045 /trunk/src/train_gui.cpp: -Fix (r16867) [FS#3084]: Also 'p's can be important.
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19:18:55  <andythenorth> nfo...have coded a bunch of ships that will go to a dock, but won't load cargo (which is available).  Can't see anything obviously wrong with my code.  Help?!
19:20:41  <andythenorth>
19:20:58  <Eddi|zuHause> set loading rate to 0?
19:23:33  <andythenorth> Eddi|zuHause: well I've just set loading rate 20, and that seems to solve the problem.  I thought prop 07 would default to 10 for ships?  Anyway, that seems to be the fix.
19:24:10  <Eddi|zuHause> well, about defaults you have to discuss with the devs and the specs ;)
19:24:56  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, once that was a problem with wagon overrides where the defaults were set to 0 instead of that of the original wagon
19:25:45  <andythenorth> well it solved it thanks ;)
19:28:26  <frosch123> andythenorth: if you use ids above the default (i.e. more than 14?), you have to set _all_ properites
19:28:39  <andythenorth> interesting thanks, that's useful
19:28:46  <frosch123> no defaults :)
19:29:22  <andythenorth>
19:29:27  <andythenorth> new ships!!
19:29:41  <andythenorth> 'fraid they are not graphically very interesting :D
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19:34:21  <TrueBrain> # everytime we touch
19:34:35  <Eddi|zuHause> ieehh...
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19:49:03  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17046 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix (r11411) [FS#3085]: Trigger house trigger 02 only for the north tile.
19:49:27  <TrueBrain> but the sun on the south is so much more pretty!
19:49:34  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frosch * r17047 /trunk/src/newgrf_house.cpp: -Fix: Mark house tiles dirty when triggers were triggered.
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20:10:57  <Eddi|zuHause> not during summer
20:11:24  <andythenorth> Just *how* many passengers should a large passenger steamer carry?  1200?  1500?
20:11:36  <andythenorth> Real life says up to about 4,000
20:11:39  <TrueBrain> why *how*"
20:11:42  <TrueBrain> why "*how*"?
20:12:07  <andythenorth> good question.  no idea, seemed right
20:13:51  <Eddi|zuHause> pherhaps he wanted the pattern to also match "showtime"
20:14:33  <Eddi|zuHause> oh how i hate everything today...
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20:17:47  <TrueBrain> ./usr/lib64/python2.5/site-packages/django/db/backends/mysql/ Warning: Field 'revision' doesn't have a default value
20:17:53  <TrueBrain> could it at least tell me WHICH table? :(
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20:21:45  <Eddi|zuHause> no, error messages are not supposed to be readable
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20:52:08  <Eddi|zuHause> so... now i have 100GB that i don't know where to put... that is exactly the same as last time i wanted to send in the HD
21:04:38  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: alberth * r17048 /trunk/src/airport_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Airport toolbar and airport builder window use nested widgets.
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21:07:42  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17049 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_tile.hpp: -Fix [NoAI]: documentation of AITile::LevelTiles was wrong
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21:15:23  <TrueBrain> WT3.1 is getting shape :) Subversion import seems finished :)
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21:17:42  <Yexo> good night
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21:21:12  <Ammler> FastBrain
21:21:46  <Eddi|zuHause> how much would it take to teach wt3.1 the civ4 file format?
21:21:54  <Eddi|zuHause> (aka xml)
21:22:02  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: a simple module, I say
21:22:12  <TrueBrain> I prepared the system for it (without really knowing the format, but okay)
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21:36:35  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I guess some day soon you should make a ticket at with details on the format
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21:45:56  <Xaroth> TrueBrain: Feature idea: make it 'guess' the format design based on a 'sample' format?
21:47:09  <TrueBrain> why would that be useful?
21:47:17  <TrueBrain> would there ever be a case you don't know the format?
21:47:28  <TrueBrain> "oh, I don't know, is this a gettext format, or openttd format"? :p :)
21:48:12  <Xaroth> no, but why make a module if the system can do that for you?
21:48:24  <TrueBrain> 'make a module'?
21:48:33  <Xaroth> TrueBrain]: Eddi|zuHause: a simple module, I say
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21:49:00  <TrueBrain> so you want to make a plugin that 'guesses' what format the civ4 stuff comes in?
21:49:13  <Xaroth> no, not a plugin, the system by default
21:49:16  <TrueBrain> LOL!
21:49:27  <TrueBrain> yeah .. lets make a system that selfadjust magicly given a few settings
21:49:33  <TrueBrain> Xaroth: we are not that far in AI design :)
21:49:40  <Xaroth> it's not AI design
21:49:55  <TrueBrain> sorry Xaroth, no system can 'guess' what format OpenTTD is, without very explicit programming it
21:49:57  <TrueBrain> neither for Gettext
21:50:00  <TrueBrain> neither for civ4
21:50:02  <Eddi|zuHause> let's make it automatically parse a video of me reading the texts!
21:50:27  <TrueBrain> you might be able to make something that autosenses XML .. but I doubt that would work
21:50:28  * Xaroth shrugs
21:50:29  <TrueBrain> too many variables
21:50:31  <Rubidium> and translate flawlessly to all thousands of languages known to the ISO
21:50:57  <TrueBrain> it is like making something that can 'guess' the format of a programming language
21:51:06  <TrueBrain> without ever telling it what they are .. so sorry Xaroth, I don't get your suggestion :(
21:51:11  <TrueBrain> (but that might be me at this late hour :))
21:52:17  <TrueBrain> damn, we have too many languages, takes for ever to do simple manipulations on it :(
21:53:41  <TrueBrain> takes about 1 minute to do a single language from scratch .. 40 minutes to import r7787 :(
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22:13:16  <TrueBrain> good night all
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