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00:00:42 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host81-129-81-193.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 00:00:53 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.20.159.115] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0-rc2] 00:04:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17081 /branches/0.7/ (8 files in 5 dirs): (log message trimmed) 00:04:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: [0.7] -Backport from trunk: 00:04:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Mark house tiles dirty when triggers were triggered (r17047) 00:04:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: [NewGRF] Trigger house trigger 02 only for the north tile [FS#3085] (r17046) 00:04:12 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Graphical glitch with graph key [FS#3083] (r17041) 00:04:13 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: "[bd]ash"-ism in configure [FS#3076] (r17026) 00:04:15 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: - Fix: Infinite recursion in content dependency checking [FS#3075] (r17015) 00:07:25 <Nite_Owl> so exactly how many 0.7.? releases are you planning on 00:07:56 <Rubidium> 4 to 5 I'd say 00:08:11 <Rubidium> like we've done since basically 0.4.5 00:10:19 <Nite_Owl> My history only goes back to around 0.5.0 - I do not seem to remember either 0.5 or 0.6 going to that many but I could be wrong 00:10:44 <Rubidium> 0.4.5-0.4.8 00:10:48 <Rubidium> 0.5.0-0.5.3 00:10:51 <Rubidium> 0.6.0-0.6.3 00:11:04 <Rubidium> excluding betas and RCs 00:12:58 <Nite_Owl> that is about what I remembered 00:13:48 <Rubidium> how release do they have? 00:14:58 <Nite_Owl> yes - 0.5.3 & 0.6.3 - 0.4.8 was before my time here 00:16:03 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DBDF9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Raubgut ist vom Umtausch ausgeschlossen!] 00:17:09 <Rubidium> diff 0.4 -> 0.5: 18 MB, 0.5 -> 0.6: 23 MB, 0.6 -> 0.7: 22 MB, 0.7 -> trunk: 31 MB 00:18:20 <Rubidium> 0.5->0.6 is big(ger) due to the move C++ 00:18:36 <Rubidium> 0.6->0.7 is big(ger) due to adding NoAI 00:19:30 <Rubidium> 0.7->trunk is big(ger) due to the window system rewrite and the string rename/reorder stuff 00:20:47 <Rubidium> so what major stuff would go into 0.8->0.9 to beat the 30 MB, or even reach 20 MB 00:22:52 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:50 <Nite_Owl> a new map array 00:24:52 <Eddi|zuHause> a C# port! 00:25:01 * Nite_Owl runs and hides 00:25:37 <Eddi|zuHause> a new map array doesn't touch that many lines 00:25:39 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:25:46 <Eddi|zuHause> that's why there are map accessors 00:27:27 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:27:29 *** Nite_Owl_ [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 00:27:35 *** Nite_Owl_ is now known as Nite_Owl 00:28:48 *** satyap [~satyap@c-68-58-242-184.hsd1.sc.comcast.net] has left #openttd [] 00:36:00 <Chruker> Does valuables have any effect on towns? Other than banks being build in towns. 00:36:59 <Nite_Owl> but if a new map array included subterranean levels that would cause an increase - no 00:37:47 <Eddi|zuHause> Chruker: no cargo has any effect on towns except food and water 00:38:05 <glx> and passengers 00:38:14 <Eddi|zuHause> only vehicles arriving at stations have an effect, it does not matter if they transport anything 00:39:44 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-5-190.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 01:06:23 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-128-254-175.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:29 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:59bb:d179:443e:c3e] has quit [Quit: bye] 01:28:45 *** Nite_Owl [~Nite_Owl@c-76-109-50-97.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read You Soon] 01:42:07 *** Chruker [~no@0x5da34ce4.vjnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:45 *** KenjiE20|LT [~Kenji@host81-129-81-193.range81-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:20:06 *** DPyro [ad4a9c0c@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 02:27:01 *** DPyro [ad4a9c0c@webchat.mibbit.com] has joined #openttd 02:27:32 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 02:27:32 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:29:20 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:08:47 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:12:26 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:36:14 *** `Fuco`` [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 03:38:40 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:42:41 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 03:43:02 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 03:45:51 *** adam_vollrath [~adam@66-169-84-002.dhcp.ahvl.nc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:05:09 *** DPyroo [~darkpyro@pool-173-74-156-12.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 04:07:44 *** Svish [~Svish@84.20.108.11] has joined #openttd 04:08:10 *** Svish [~Svish@84.20.108.11] has quit [] 04:08:26 *** Svish [~Svish@84.20.108.11] has joined #openttd 04:14:44 *** DPyro [ad4a9c0c@webchat.mibbit.com] has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client] 04:31:55 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 04:38:43 *** `Fuco`` [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 04:39:39 *** `Fuco`` [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 04:42:30 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 05:20:04 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has quit [Quit: Sleep.] 05:35:23 *** R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd 05:38:01 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0EB40.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: http://www.lagerwiki.de - das Wiki rund um's Thema Lager und Logistik] 05:49:20 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #openttd 06:02:16 <R0b0t1> For like, small local circuits, is a maglev actually any better than a monorail? 06:02:30 <R0b0t1> It seems that the extra speed doesn't help too much 06:02:53 <R0b0t1> And it just costs more (I mean, the speed could help you transport more stuff, but the resource generally doesn't "recharge") 06:18:10 <Xaroth> Long circuits generally earn more tho :P 06:23:35 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 06:39:21 *** Zorn [~zorn@e177229177.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 06:41:53 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd 06:42:58 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:44:22 *** stuffcorpse [~rick@121.98.136.241] has joined #openttd 06:48:33 *** `Fuco`` [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 06:50:42 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:17 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 07:04:02 <R0b0t1> "Road Vehicle 9's profit last year was -6" 07:04:08 <R0b0t1> Uh oh, my game is haunted... 07:18:57 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd 07:51:52 <TrueBrain> good morning all 07:55:03 <petern> no 07:55:05 <petern> u 07:59:35 *** reldred [~reldred@115.131.192.78] has joined #openttd 08:18:36 <R0b0t1> Does anyone have a save of a pretty complex train network they wouldn't mind sharing? 08:18:42 <R0b0t1> I need something to compare mine too :D 08:18:44 <TrueBrain> try the forums 08:36:15 *** DJNekkid [~tmsmje@static128-249.adsl.no] has quit [] 08:36:26 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEda72.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 08:41:12 *** ecke_ [~ecke@21.161.broadband7.iol.cz] has joined #openttd 08:45:34 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r17082 /extra/website/ (noai/ settings.py templates/header.html): [website] -Remove: NoAI is no longer a Django website, but is now managed by RedMine 08:46:45 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r17083 /extra/website/urls.py: [website] -Fix r17082: to stay traditional: forgot to remove one reference 08:51:59 <Rubidium> R0b0t1: take a look at the save games/scenarios section on the forum or at openttdcoop.org 08:54:16 <R0b0t1> Ah 08:54:22 <R0b0t1> didn't know there was a section 08:57:49 *** DPyro [~darkpyro@pool-173-74-156-12.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 09:00:02 <Rubidium> petern: please tell me what string would be the best of the ones in http://rbijker.net/openttd/fs3091-possible-strings.txt 09:00:51 <TrueBrain> 2) {VEHICLE} stopped due to ordered refit failure <- that is more readable :) 09:01:12 <TrueBrain> 1) is nice too :) 09:01:28 <TrueBrain> 6) says more than others :p 09:01:35 <planetmaker> 2) read like "vehicle stopped as we ordered a failure" 09:02:43 <planetmaker> 1) needs an addition "t" in refitting. 09:02:57 <Rubidium> lies! 09:03:08 *** DPyroo [~darkpyro@pool-173-74-156-12.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:03:46 <planetmaker> I propse 7) {VEHICLE} stopped due to failure of an ordered refit 09:03:51 <planetmaker> +a 09:03:56 *** Yrol [~Yrol@BAF0436.baf.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 09:04:03 <planetmaker> and +o :-P 09:04:28 <Rubidium> where +o? 09:04:33 <planetmaker> in propose :-) 09:04:37 <TrueBrain> stoopped 09:04:41 <SmatZ> :-D 09:04:49 <TrueBrain> hi SmatZ!! :) 09:04:54 <SmatZ> hello TrueBrain! :-) 09:05:08 <SmatZ> what about "-an" ? 09:05:09 <Rubidium> is it a cloud? is it a plane? no it's SmatZ :) 09:05:13 <SmatZ> :-) 09:05:17 <SmatZ> hello hello :-) 09:05:38 <TrueBrain> how is all with SmatZ? 09:05:39 <SmatZ> I would like to say "I coming to save you", but I'm not :( 09:05:40 <Rubidium> I'll just add more suggestions 09:05:50 <TrueBrain> you are not? Then what are you here for?! 09:06:01 <SmatZ> *BOOH* 09:06:10 <TrueBrain> to scare us? 09:06:11 <Rubidium> it's BOFH! 09:06:11 * SmatZ tries to scare you 09:06:13 <SmatZ> hehe 09:06:43 * TrueBrain is happy SmatZ is back 09:06:55 <SmatZ> :o) 09:10:01 *** C-Otto [~cotto@ip2-169.halifax.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #openttd 09:10:02 <C-Otto> hi there 09:10:29 <C-Otto> i'd like to use openttd to demonstrate some aspects of software verification to young students 09:10:40 <planetmaker> go right ahead :-) 09:10:45 <C-Otto> (by using trains, crashes and signals) 09:11:04 <C-Otto> i found the "ignore signal" button, which is quite useful 09:11:08 <Rubidium> that would be funky ;) 09:11:21 <C-Otto> is there some related option that trains do not wait until the segment is free? 09:11:32 <C-Otto> i want them to go around without stopping (and crashing) as long as nothing disturbs them 09:11:33 <planetmaker> ignore signal button maybe? 09:11:36 * Rubidium would like to see that course 09:11:47 <C-Otto> i need to press that button way more often than i can :) 09:11:53 *** OwenS [~oshepherd@host86-128-254-175.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 09:12:14 <planetmaker> there's no mass-ignore signal afaik 09:12:22 <Rubidium> C-Otto: either don't place signals at all or modify the code a bit so all signals are green 09:12:44 <C-Otto> Rubidium: i like the first idea :) 09:13:21 <Rubidium> you 'just' need to ignore-signal the trains out of their depot 09:13:26 <planetmaker> C-Otto, that's easily done. Just a bit dangerous :-) 09:13:33 <C-Otto> yep, had my first crash... 09:13:51 <C-Otto> okay, the depot is a signal 09:13:52 <C-Otto> good. 09:14:03 * planetmaker wonders how train crashes relate to software engineering 09:14:14 <Rubidium> road crossings are a nice way to demonstrate stuff too; if the train is slow it won't crash through the road vehicle, but if the train is fast it will crash 09:14:29 <Rubidium> planetmaker: I'm thinking about verifying in relation with threaded software 09:14:41 <C-Otto> ah. the train reversed direction! 09:14:42 <C-Otto> bad, crash. 09:14:48 <planetmaker> uh... 09:14:58 <planetmaker> each train a single thread... he. 09:14:59 <C-Otto> planetmaker: this is part of some very basic introduction to theoretic computer science - model checking etc. 09:15:11 <C-Otto> at a later stage we will model the signals using synchrinized automata 09:15:26 <Rubidium> planetmaker: yes, and each track section is a different piece of 'data', which can't be concurrently used 09:15:26 <C-Otto> now all trains died :( 09:17:15 <Yrol> how about setting the penalties for red signals to a real low ( zero? ) value? wouldnt that kinda be a "nonstop ignore red signal"-switch? 09:17:34 <Yrol> or some other pathfindermagic? 09:17:35 <TrueBrain> you clearly don't understand the concept of penalties and how it is related to the game :) Hihi :) 09:17:43 <C-Otto> i don't know the pathfinder options 09:17:56 <Yrol> (TrueBrain) no, i dont °giggles° 09:18:10 <OwenS> Yrol: Setting the penalty to zero will just mean YaPF causes trains to drive up to them rather than finding better routes :p 09:18:13 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: just ignore that suggestion; red lights are red lights 09:18:15 <Rubidium> C-Otto: and neither does Yrol understand the way signals work, so disregard everything he said about signals 09:18:43 <Yrol> uhm... it was not a suggestion. but a question. 09:18:58 <TrueBrain> in that case the asnwer is a hard: NO 09:19:09 <OwenS> Heck; Signals are such it's impossible, at present, for any new kind of block signal to override the "red if train in block" logic 09:19:58 <Yrol> thank you, TrueBrain. 09:19:58 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: can you send us a copy of your class? :p 09:22:42 <OwenS> Writing recursive descent parsers is fun... 09:23:10 <TrueBrain> doing it once, yes 09:23:13 <TrueBrain> after that, it is boring 09:23:27 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: a (small) paper would be nice too; Using OpenTTD to teach software verification ;) 09:23:36 <C-Otto> TrueBrain: of the save games? 09:23:37 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: I agree with Rubidium :) 09:24:02 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: no, I wonder how OpenTTD can ever be set to use in a class, so I would love to see that :) 09:24:15 <C-Otto> easy concept 09:24:17 <C-Otto> 1) play a bit 09:24:34 <C-Otto> 2) let them get the idea that "two trains on the same track is bad" (by crashing them!) 09:24:37 <OwenS> TrueBrain: The "..." was supposed to indicate the "not really" part :P 09:24:39 <C-Otto> 3) introduce signals 09:24:49 <C-Otto> 4) let them figure out, by testing, that the signals actually work 09:24:53 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, the first time I thought it was fun :) 09:24:58 <C-Otto> 5) explain the underlying model (red -> green -> red etc.) 09:25:02 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: we ought to follow that course ;) Got some time in S2 2009/2010? 09:25:09 <C-Otto> 6) use that model to formalize the system using some automata 09:25:10 *** Coco-Banana-Man [~Stephan.D@p5B2DDB27.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 09:25:11 <OwenS> I'd much rather be using Bison if it didn't generate crappy code :p 09:25:18 <C-Otto> 7) synchronize the automata and see that everything works out 09:25:19 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: you think C-Otto would pay for our travel? 09:25:27 <C-Otto> this is no real class, but some introduction for pupils 09:25:35 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: you've got OV, right? 09:25:44 <TrueBrain> OwenS: you lose that idea soon enough, Bison is not as bad as you might think :p 09:25:56 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: still, sounds rather interesting :) 09:25:58 <OwenS> TrueBrain: It is when you want multi-threadedness 09:25:58 <Rubidium> Aachen is like... not far over the border, so it can't be that expensive 09:25:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: not valid in germany :p 09:26:00 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 09:26:12 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: true true 09:26:18 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: so, we will join the introduction, okay? :) 09:26:56 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Fortunately my grammar is rather simple. And I have the awesome re2c building the lexer :p 09:27:08 <TrueBrain> re2c? 09:27:21 <OwenS> http://re2c.org/ 09:27:29 <C-Otto> TrueBrain: how old are you? 09:27:31 <TrueBrain> I build 2 lexers myself, used flex a few more times .. in the end it really doesn't matter :p 09:27:40 <OwenS> Blindingly fast, needs a bit more glue work than flex/bison, but generates nicer code 09:27:44 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: too old for an introduction class, I guess :p 09:27:55 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: OV to Heerlen and then two busses 09:28:19 <OwenS> And it's much nicer to work with IMO :P 09:28:57 <TrueBrain> OwenS: never tried it 09:29:28 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: it takes me 3hours to get in Heerlen :p 09:29:40 <Rubidium> or the train from heerlen 09:29:59 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 09:30:09 <OwenS> Hmm, to support threading my "VM"'s gonna have to switch to a different stack 09:30:28 <TrueBrain> reminds me that we never finished NAIL :( 09:30:56 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: still less that what I need 09:31:26 <OwenS> TrueBrain: As I said, LLVM makes it stupidly easy (And very fast too) 09:31:45 <TrueBrain> OwenS: NAIL has to be lightweighted ... LLVM doesn't fit that bill :p 09:31:58 <OwenS> lol 09:32:37 <OwenS> I'm working on it for an app that has two important conditions: Firstly, very, very fast; Secondly, pre-emptible 09:35:49 <Yrol> i am sure to be bashed again, but... would it not be visually easier to understand, if one uses the blocksignals, which do not revert to red the sec the locomotive has passed them? °puts on helmet° 09:35:50 <C-Otto> btw, openttd rocks on a 30" with 2560x1600 :P 09:36:26 <OwenS> Oh yeah... I have another requirement: Security :p 09:37:32 <TrueBrain> C-Otto: or put a webcam in the class, and send us the result :p 09:37:53 <C-Otto> TrueBrain: the students will make some video presentation on the second day, where they should explain their topic to the other groups 09:38:04 <C-Otto> maybe we get some openttd-video instead of a real one :) 09:38:50 <TrueBrain> either way, we would love to see such videos :) Even more if you allow us to post them on our webpage 09:39:11 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has joined #openttd 09:39:38 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Anyway, my language is somewhere between Python and C :p 09:40:00 <TrueBrain> which says absolutely nothing :) 09:40:21 <TrueBrain> more important are things like: strong typed? weak typed? pointers? string-autocasts? 09:40:37 <OwenS> Weak typed; No pointers; Auto coercion when no data loss 09:40:53 <OwenS> Object oriented, but in the funny "Primitive types are virtual objects" way :p 09:41:13 <TrueBrain> I hate weak typed languages :p 09:41:21 <TrueBrain> (but easier to implement :p) 09:41:28 <OwenS> Well attach type tags to your variables when I implement them :P 09:41:34 <OwenS> var [Int32] myvar; 09:42:08 <TrueBrain> the biggest evil about weak types is that you can't predict function return types (the rest you can determ in most of the cases). I mean like: 09:42:18 <TrueBrain> function () { if (b) return "a"; return 1; } 09:42:33 <TrueBrain> same goes of course for statements like: a = b ? 1 : "a" 09:42:48 <OwenS> def [Int32] x() will probably be the syntax for that :p 09:42:59 <TrueBrain> kills many optimizations, if you don't know the type 09:43:36 <Rubidium> simple solution; only return ints 09:43:57 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: when doing NAIL we already found out that is not what is happening :p 09:44:17 <OwenS> But the compiler will attempt to infer types when it can from given information 09:44:26 <Rubidium> s/return/allow/ 09:44:33 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: ah, yes :p 09:45:14 <TrueBrain> OwenS: either way, if you really want speed (very very fast, as you said), you will need to make it strong typed 09:45:22 <TrueBrain> else the runtime needs to check if c = a + b, is valid 09:45:32 <TrueBrain> (needs to check a is integer, b is integer, ...) 09:45:44 <TrueBrain> just telling you now, so you don't have to find that out later :) We did ... :p 09:46:16 <OwenS> TrueBrain: I need speed to an extent. However, I also need user friendlyness as it's not really going in an app targetted at programmers :p 09:46:42 <Rubidium> pre-emptible, fast and noob-friendly? 09:46:53 <OwenS> It's gotta find a medium between them :p 09:47:26 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 09:47:30 <Rubidium> try Char 09:47:36 <TrueBrain> OwenS: so you don't need very very fast .. you just want speed :) 09:47:56 <OwenS> Yeah. I need to be able to run quite a few of these in between rendering 3D frames :p 09:48:15 <TrueBrain> depends on the framerate you expect :p 09:48:16 <TrueBrain> hehehehe 09:48:30 <TrueBrain> create a JIT, and you might make it :) 09:48:35 <OwenS> LLVM JIT ;-) 09:48:55 <OwenS> But luckily most of the time these will be running when frame rates will be low anyway (I.E. before the scene optimizer has run) 09:49:19 <TrueBrain> good luck ;) 09:49:20 <blathijs> OwenS: Working with LLVM? Nice :-) 09:50:41 <TrueBrain> always a future for NoAI: JIT the code :) :p 09:51:18 <Yrol> i do not get it. why are you so agressive against people who ask a question? a simple "no" or "it doesnt work that way" would have been totally fine. instead of not only implying the asking person is to be totally ignored and not credible, like a slap in the face. sure, you probably get many of weird or silly questions here, but, is this a channel for openttd or for openttd-developers with a masters degree only? it would be nice to have some kind of expl 09:51:19 <OwenS> Well, LLVM does that, at a cost of a big lib :P 09:51:41 <TrueBrain> OwenS: too big, if you ask me :( 09:52:14 <TrueBrain> somehow HelenOS got my attention .. dunno why :) 09:52:22 <blathijs> Yrol: Your message was croppend at "have some kind of expl..." 09:54:51 <Rubidium> Yrol: 1) it sounded very much like you "knew" what you were talking about, basically giving him an idea that for sure is a waste of time to investigate. 09:55:05 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: because of Brianetta? 09:55:10 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: no? 09:55:45 <Rubidium> Yrol: 2) the people bashing you don't have a masters degree (yet) 09:55:58 <Rubidium> Yrol: 3) I dislike people telling stuff that isn't true at all 09:56:27 *** R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:57:04 <Rubidium> Yrol: 4) it is more clear to tell someone you don't have a clue about the signals than sugar coating it with all kinds of stuff. Especially because both are (likely) non-native English speakers 09:57:09 <OwenS> assert(&Parser::parseUnaryExpr && 0); /me likes such expressions to say "I was called in a stupid way" 09:57:48 <TrueBrain> OwenS: euh .. ieuw? 09:57:50 <SmatZ> && 0? 09:58:03 <OwenS> Make the assertion always fail because it's in a branch that shoiuld be unreachable 09:58:11 <Yrol> ( rest of message ) " it would be nice to have some kind of explanation for such behaviour." 09:58:15 <TrueBrain> then use: assert(!"I should never come here") 09:58:29 <OwenS> I should probably use that :P 09:58:42 <TrueBrain> OwenS: but remember asserts can be disabled 09:58:46 <TrueBrain> that is the idea of an assert ;) 09:59:12 <OwenS> Yes. The code should never reach it :P I'm following it with an abort for runtime 09:59:18 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: I rather use NOT_REACHED() ;) 09:59:21 <OwenS> release builds** 09:59:26 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I agree :p 10:00:23 <TrueBrain> OwenS: and given you use C++, why not use 'false' over '0'? 10:00:25 <OwenS> Nice thing about LLVM is that I can make my code generator generate some really unoptimized code... and the optimizer passes will do a brilliant job of cleaning it up :p 10:00:26 <TrueBrain> so much more clear :) 10:00:45 <OwenS> Also a good point on the false =/ 10:00:46 <TrueBrain> isn't that the general idea of an optimizer? :) 10:01:00 <OwenS> I mean I can generate some quite pathologially lazy code :P 10:01:29 <OwenS> Other than type inference (Something beyond LLVM's low level remit :P) I'm not doing any other optimizations 10:01:50 <Rubidium> you mean like int x; while (--x); 10:01:56 <TrueBrain> it btw is nice to at least once in your life write your own optimizer :) 10:03:20 <blathijs> Or look at LLVM's? :-) 10:03:32 <TrueBrain> Yrol: 5) we told you 'no', and we had to make sure you were ignored by C-Otto, as you were confusing C-Otto. You might consider stating your questions in a different form, to avoid such confusion :) (just my 2 pennies) 10:03:36 * blathijs did some work on LLVM's optimizer passes during his internship last year 10:03:56 <TrueBrain> blathijs: looking at it doesn't cut it :) Doing it .. that is nice :p 10:04:17 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Agreed, when you look at it, it looks so simple :-p 10:04:34 <TrueBrain> when I had to write my first optimizer, it really took some time to get my head around it :p 10:04:52 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: will you be posting civ4 specs? :p 10:07:42 <Yrol> (Rubidium) aha. i guess, i totally not understand the meaning of language then either, if a clearly not "suggestive" sentence ( i did not quite said "do that, do this" ) is misunderstood in such a way. oh well... may ESR be praised. ( and thanks, OwenS, for the kind explanation why it wont work ) 10:08:56 <TrueBrain> Yrol: funny, how a 'clearly' sentence was misinterperted by at least 3 people from different nations and inside OpenTTD knowledge. But okay, take it how ever you want :) 10:09:36 <OwenS> I suppose 16bytes/variant isn't so bad for a 64-bit arch (struct { Type* type; union { Object* obj; int64_t int; double dbl; etc }}; 10:09:58 <TrueBrain> blegh @ codestyle of OwenS 10:10:46 *** ecke_ [~ecke@21.161.broadband7.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ecke_] 10:10:52 <OwenS> lol, in what way? :p 10:10:56 <TrueBrain> Type* 10:11:00 <TrueBrain> Type* type, type2 10:11:03 <TrueBrain> what type is 'type2'? 10:11:09 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: yes, but not right now. 10:11:12 <TrueBrain> Type* or Type 10:11:16 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: yippie :) 10:11:18 <OwenS> Type 10:11:26 <TrueBrain> OwenS: so * belongs to type .. write it there :p 10:11:28 <OwenS> I know; thats why I don't define multiple pointer types like that :P 10:11:32 <TrueBrain> (I really dislike that coding style :)) 10:11:44 <TrueBrain> makes code obscure :p 10:11:45 <OwenS> It's my pet peeve with C++ :P 10:11:47 <TrueBrain> but okay :) 10:12:07 <OwenS> I should be saying "Type*" is the type... now define all these vars as "Type*"s :p 10:12:30 <TrueBrain> I think Pascal has a nice thing for that, that you define Type_P and stuff 10:12:35 <TrueBrain> then you have: Type_P type 10:12:44 <TrueBrain> immediatly removes any unclearness about the type :) 10:13:16 <OwenS> I suppose I could typedef Type* TypePtr but thats just ugly :P 10:13:28 <TrueBrain> for C(++) it is 'ugly', yes :) 10:13:33 <petern> lies 10:13:35 <TrueBrain> for Pascal it is the most normal thing there is :) 10:13:40 <petern> this is why you write it was Type *foo 10:13:50 <petern> -w 10:13:54 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd 10:14:08 <TrueBrain> but okay, my likes/dislikes about C++ :) 10:14:34 * OwenS starts defining & building the AST 10:15:26 *** R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has joined #openttd 10:19:29 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:47 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has joined #openttd 10:31:30 <dihedral> trallalla 10:31:53 <TrueBrain> hello dihedral :) 10:32:17 <dihedral> hey ho :-) how are you sir? 10:32:27 <TrueBrain> good good :) Slowly working on WT3.1 again ... 10:32:30 <TrueBrain> but it is so hot here ... 10:34:31 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 10:38:56 *** glx [glx@2a01:e35:2f59:c7c0:a95b:37a2:a8cf:4a17] has joined #openttd 10:38:59 *** mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ 10:49:17 <dihedral> http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=808107#p808107 <- dihedral having a creative mood :-P 10:51:54 * TrueBrain laughs hard at post of dihedral (in a positive way :p) 10:56:10 <OwenS> I do wonder how one would implement signals in tunnels :p 10:56:17 <OwenS> (As in, the matter of placing them :P ) 10:56:32 <TrueBrain> not many people know tunnels are blackholes 10:56:42 <TrueBrain> most think that somehow the rails is really on all those tiles 10:56:48 <OwenS> Wouldn't wormholes be a better term? :p 10:57:01 <TrueBrain> fair enough 10:57:06 <TrueBrain> although I once read that every blackhole has a whitehole 10:57:19 <OwenS> Well thats not accepted scientific theory :P 10:57:28 <TrueBrain> blackholes are neither 10:57:50 <OwenS> Blackholes are commonly accepted to exist and be holding the galaxy together 10:57:58 <TrueBrain> still not proven 10:58:12 <TrueBrain> You got to love astronomy :) 10:58:59 <OwenS> They're accepted theory though and probably will be for a while (I.E. until we develop FTL travel or go to the galactic core and back :P ) 10:59:11 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: we need to think about branching strgen I think? (you wanted to keep a version for 0.7 branch not?) 10:59:46 <petern> huh? 10:59:46 <petern> strgen inside the tree... 10:59:47 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, define 'accepted' :) But okay, I will give you thisone, in general it is assumed there is a blackhole 11:00:12 <OwenS> Accepted: Assumed to be and apparently correct but unproven 11:00:14 <Rubidium> not quite branching, just compiling an ancient enough strgen and marking that with e.g. -0.7 instead of -r12346 11:00:39 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hmm .. tricky 11:00:52 <TrueBrain> (as the strgen branch can only compile HEAD) 11:01:00 <TrueBrain> strgen branch being: /extra/strgen 11:01:30 <petern> ... /tags/0.7.2/src/strgen 11:02:08 <TrueBrain> running 'make' there doesn't really do anything 11:02:16 <TrueBrain> except of course giving an error 11:02:17 <petern> no but that's where the correct source is 11:02:27 <TrueBrain> yes, thank you for that. Now back to the issue .. ;) 11:02:42 <TrueBrain> (it btw also needs a file from table/) 11:02:44 <petern> so the issue is the build system doesn't package up the strgen binary 11:02:57 <TrueBrain> the issue is that /extra/strgen only compiles HEAD 11:03:05 <petern> which should be done at the same time as building openttd 11:03:43 <Rubidium> petern: unless Apple donates us a machine we're not natively compiling strgen on all platforms, making packing it quite tricky 11:03:43 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: maybe add some small magic to that Makefile script, which allows: make TAG=0.7.0 or what ever, which fetches the right revision for the svn:external? 11:04:37 <petern> if you can compile openttd for other platforms, compiling the much simpler strgen shouldn't be a problem 11:04:56 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I think we need to give petern our job :) 11:05:38 <petern> if you decided to remove strgen from the source tree, and make /extra/strgen the official and only place to get it, then i would agree with your viewpoint 11:05:59 <petern> but currently /extra/strgen is just extra confusing unnecessary cruft 11:06:11 <TrueBrain> for you maybe; for us, not so much 11:06:16 <Rubidium> petern: compiling not, automating it without much extra effort is something else 11:07:14 <Rubidium> and we've learned that using svn:externals isn't that favourable in /trunk 11:07:31 <TrueBrain> euhm, no, that was a bad move :) 11:08:05 <Eddi|zuHause> what was actually the problem there? 11:08:12 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: what about REV=XYZ, if unset use HEAD and svn up the externals to that revision? For the 0.7 branch version we just need the right revision 11:08:24 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: hg/git people failing to compile 11:08:33 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hmm .. I now realise a problem: 0.7 is in a branch 11:08:38 <TrueBrain> and svn:external fetches trunk 11:08:44 <TrueBrain> so that only works for 0.7.0 11:09:09 <TrueBrain> or we need to modify 'make' to do the fetching 11:09:13 <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: svn up -r foo doesn't update the externals to the same revision, making binary searches difficult 11:09:34 <petern> well, if you need a branch 11:09:41 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: strgen hasn't changed in /0.7 and is unlikely to significantly change 11:09:56 <petern> just make a normal copy 11:10:05 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: 'significantly' ;) 11:10:17 <TrueBrain> what if in 0.8 you decide it is needed ? :) 11:11:09 <Rubidium> well, add an svn switch option too? 11:11:25 <TrueBrain> hmm .. MSVC of course never calls make :p 11:11:59 <Rubidium> we're not using MSVC to compile the thing, right? 11:12:08 <TrueBrain> no? mingw for windows? 11:13:25 <Rubidium> yup 11:13:32 <TrueBrain> ah 11:13:37 <TrueBrain> so that would be possible 11:13:49 <TrueBrain> although a bit ugly, and consumes unneeded time on the VMs :p 11:14:05 <TrueBrain> hmm .. do the VMs have networking? :p 11:14:07 <Rubidium> needs to be done before it's send to the VMs (no network) 11:14:13 <TrueBrain> hehe :) 11:16:51 *** KenjiE20 [~KenjiE20@92.19.139.119] has joined #openttd 11:17:45 *** R0b0t1 [~Enigma@64-136-216-213.dyn.everestkc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:14 <TrueBrain> k, let me try to call apple first now :) 11:19:33 <blathijs> Call apple? 11:20:14 <TrueBrain> or you know a better way in? 11:24:17 <TrueBrain> redirected 3 times, whoho 11:24:21 <TrueBrain> finally you get an email address ... whoho! 11:26:16 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: http://rbijker.net/openttd/strgen_nastiness.diff (got to go now though, ciao) 11:26:34 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: have fun!! 11:27:02 <TrueBrain> problem with your patch is that it needs to run BEFORE the VMs get the data .. which is tricky :( 11:31:14 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Dunno, what do you want from apple? :-) 11:31:19 <TrueBrain> blathijs: a server 11:31:51 <blathijs> Ah, but probably not to buy one :-) 11:31:58 <TrueBrain> we don't have 3000 euros :p 11:33:48 <planetmaker> 2,3kEUR are sufficient :-P 11:33:55 <blathijs> I'll ask with my study association, IIRC they have had contact with Apple on sponsoring related business before 11:49:56 <TrueBrain> I am out of the office, returning on Monday, August 10th. I will respond to your email as soon as possible upon my return. For urgent matters, please call me on my cell at 11:49:57 <TrueBrain> :( 11:51:33 <petern> TrueBrain, hey loo, planetmaker offered :D 11:51:35 <petern> +k 11:54:54 <fonsinchen> did anyone take a look at my smallmap-zoom-out and zoomlevels patches? 11:55:14 <fonsinchen> FS#54 and FS#3094 12:09:02 *** Yrol [~Yrol@BAF0436.baf.pppool.de] has quit [Quit: MOOOOOOOOOO?????] 12:20:16 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.202.97] has joined #openttd 12:20:43 *** oskari89 [oskari89@88.193.124.243] has quit [Quit: Utm Aœ - Aja 35] 12:27:15 *** HerzogDeXtEr [~Flex@89.246.171.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 12:29:30 *** Baffage [~potetfar@ti0010a380-dhcp2029.bb.online.no] has joined #openttd 12:29:51 <Baffage> Hello fellow openTTD-players! Baffage is back, and this time he needs some advice! 12:30:03 <TrueBrain> what a nice greeting :) 12:30:07 <TrueBrain> what can we do for you? 12:30:32 <Baffage> I'm playing coop with a friend (he joined my company etc), but in the new rail veichles meny, there are no locomotives 12:30:49 <TrueBrain> what year are you at? 12:30:59 <Baffage> 2034. started in 2030 12:31:10 <TrueBrain> you have newgrfs loaded, where engines expire? 12:31:23 <Baffage> .. probably :p how do i find out? 12:31:33 <TrueBrain> there my knowledge stops :) I never play with newgrfs :) 12:33:01 <Baffage> There's... nothing in the newgrf settings 12:33:23 <Baffage> should I download a preset or something? 12:33:25 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17084 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: _age_cargo_skip_counter is common to all vehicle types 12:35:10 <Baffage> .. was that answer for me? :o 12:35:32 <TrueBrain> Baffage: haha, no :) 12:35:41 <Baffage> .. great :] 12:35:44 <TrueBrain> CIA-1 informs us about changes other developers made to the current development code 12:35:55 <Belugas> hello 12:35:56 <Baffage> i see 12:36:19 <glx> Baffage: what kind of rail depot? 12:36:30 <Baffage> just a regular one i guess? 12:36:39 <glx> try monorail or maglev 12:38:00 <Baffage> how? i can only find a regular train depot in the train meny 12:38:35 <TrueBrain> meny = menu I guess? :) 12:38:38 <TrueBrain> at least a consistant typo :) 12:38:56 <Baffage> oh yeah, menu :] 12:39:29 <Baffage> menu is meny in norwegian, it's kindof programmed into my brain to press Y i guess :] 12:39:47 <TrueBrain> haha :) Well, I was wondering, because you did it so consistantly :) 12:40:06 <Baffage> woah, didnt notice 12:40:28 <OwenS> I think I'm gonna ignore nested functions for v0.1; continuations can come later :P 12:41:24 <glx> Baffage: hold mouse button when clicking on "open rail toolbox" button 12:41:58 <glx> you'll see a drop down to select rail type 12:42:14 <glx> same goes for road toolbox 12:43:15 <Baffage> aaaaaaah thanks =D 12:43:21 <TrueBrain> glx: you are GOOOOODDD :) 12:43:37 <TrueBrain> I would never expect that a user doesn't know that :) 12:44:16 <Baffage> Anyway, while we're at it, my friends joined my company through the multiplayer lobby and so on, but when I abandon the game, is there any way to continue where we dropped off? 12:44:16 <glx> TrueBrain: common unknown thing 12:44:21 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17085 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: unify the place where vehicle's cargo ages 12:45:34 <OwenS> Baffage: Save and load the game as normal 12:45:46 <Baffage> Then how does he join me afterwards? 12:45:58 <TrueBrain> when you start a multiplayer game, you can also load a game 12:46:25 <glx> http://www.ie6nomore.com/ <-- I like the idea 12:46:52 <Baffage> aaaah, well that wasn't too hard :] 12:48:22 <TrueBrain> glx: and yet we fully support IE6 :p 12:49:05 <glx> but supporting IE6 is not fun ;) 12:49:15 <TrueBrain> that is true :) 13:44:38 *** reldred [~reldred@115.131.192.78] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:40 <OwenS> TrueBrain: Hmm.. in a language designed to be easy to use... is making assignment an expression rather than a statement a good idea? 13:52:00 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17086 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Cleanup (r16654): remove code used only for debugging 13:53:16 <TrueBrain> OwenS: well, depends I guess :) 13:53:32 <TrueBrain> it always has to be partly an expression if you want to allow: a = b = 1 13:53:40 <TrueBrain> or while (a = func()) { 13:53:56 <OwenS> It's just how many people are gonna go "if(a = b)" and get horribly confused? :p 13:54:06 <TrueBrain> for those things you generate a warning 13:54:36 <TrueBrain> but yes, a statement would reduse that confusion, at the cost of flexibility 13:55:01 <petern> heh 13:55:06 <petern> livejournal is down 13:55:09 <petern> facebook is down 13:55:11 <petern> twitter is down 13:55:30 <TrueBrain> NOOOOoooooo 13:55:32 <TrueBrain> MY LIFE IS GONE! 13:55:39 <OwenS> "file.as:8: Assignment inside a conditional statement - this is normally unintentional. If this is your intention, enclose the assignment in parentheses to supress this warning" 13:55:43 * TrueBrain starts screaming and running around naked 13:55:51 <petern> naked? woohoo! 13:56:12 <TrueBrain> OwenS: exactly 13:56:55 <OwenS> I then just need to put validateCondition() calls everywhere which check if the expr is a BinaryOpNode, and if so, what the operator is :p 13:57:57 <blathijs> Not making assignment an expression might also make the compiler simpler :-) 13:58:47 <blathijs> OwenS: Your warning is quite better that GCC's warning ("Suggest parentheses around truth value") 14:00:09 <OwenS> Isn't it "Suggest parentheses around assignment used as truth value"? 14:00:55 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: to what extent can we manipulate/script the stuff *before* source.tar is made? (CF) 14:01:08 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: hmm 14:01:55 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: there isn't really a prehook 14:02:30 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: as nice hack, strgen/version.sh in projects might be able to take care of it :p 14:02:59 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: as can findversion.sh the extra/strgen, but that is a REALLY ugly hack : 14:03:00 <TrueBrain> p 14:07:21 <TrueBrain> clearly, the CF needs a rewrite :p Ghehe :) 14:09:12 <Rubidium> looks like versions.sh might do the trick 14:09:26 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C0C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 14:09:37 <TrueBrain> for now, that looks like a nice working hack, yes :) 14:10:51 <Rubidium> though I think it needs manual 'work' 14:11:13 <TrueBrain> I will modify the scripts so version.sh knows what the 'release' value is from the project 14:11:16 <TrueBrain> should do the trick, I guess 14:11:27 <TrueBrain> project = schedule 14:11:39 <Rubidium> the schedule doesn't want to run :( 14:11:51 <TrueBrain> what did you do? :p 14:12:55 <Rubidium> nothing, though... it looks like it hasn't attempted to run it for ages 14:13:19 <TrueBrain> haha, again :p 14:13:39 <TrueBrain> it tends to get stuck :p 14:13:49 <TrueBrain> failures! WHOHO! :) 14:14:42 <Rubidium> woepsie ;) 14:14:48 <TrueBrain> ghehe 14:14:54 <TrueBrain> and it looks like one of the VMs now hangs 14:14:58 <TrueBrain> ah, no, it finished 14:15:00 <TrueBrain> weird 14:16:05 <TrueBrain> it is still running :) 14:16:30 <TrueBrain> version updating :) 14:16:31 <TrueBrain> hehe 14:17:13 <blathijs> OwenS: I don't think so, but perhaps it is 14:20:36 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: seems to work! 14:20:55 <Rubidium> yup, though... needs manual work for releases. Not that it really matters much 14:20:56 <TrueBrain> now we just need to compile one for the recent nightly, as finger now gives a wrong version :p 14:22:10 <Rubidium> will do ;) 14:22:22 <Rubidium> 16886 is new enough :) 14:22:30 <TrueBrain> it is the latest, I guess :p 14:22:55 <TrueBrain> now I need to fight strgen with WT3.1 .. 14:23:15 <TrueBrain> I wonder if it isn't easier to put the data I need on finger.openttd.org or whatever :p 14:23:33 <OwenS> blathijs: "warning: suggest brackets around assignment used as truth value" (And thanks for reminding me to turn on -Wall :P ) 14:24:27 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: what data do you need? 14:29:03 <OwenS> Hmm, I suppose I should now build an AST printer :p 14:29:13 <TrueBrain> Rubidium: the -export stuff 14:29:34 <TrueBrain> as it turns out to be pretty tricky to compile stuff from WT3.1 (and keep it up-to-date) 14:30:14 *** HerzogDeXtEr1 [~Flex@89.246.202.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:05 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 14:31:06 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:32:23 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: true-ish, but if you're going to support branches it'll become even trickier 14:32:31 <TrueBrain> exactly 14:32:52 <TrueBrain> so I was thinking, what if we publish the exports on finger.openttd.org/strgen/<release>/ 14:32:56 <Rubidium> also with finger.openttd 14:33:25 <TrueBrain> a post-commit hook in subversion can take care of the updates, I guess 14:33:37 <Rubidium> TrueBrain: release would mean 0.7, trunk etc? 14:33:42 <TrueBrain> yup 14:33:50 <TrueBrain> still leaves my problem that if you commit a strgen update and a language update which uses that at the same time 14:34:01 <TrueBrain> I somehow need to synchronize such data 14:34:15 <Rubidium> that'd mean that the strgen update needs to be done first in the post commit hook 14:34:23 <TrueBrain> post-commit is async 14:34:32 <TrueBrain> (on your request :p) 14:34:38 <Rubidium> and that only after that is succesfully done can the language thingy be started 14:35:01 <Rubidium> although... 14:35:03 <TrueBrain> but I guess it is possible to make those 2 synchronized :) 14:35:32 <Rubidium> what if we make a new post commit script that sequentially does the strgen update and then language update and call that async from the postcommit hook 14:35:50 <Rubidium> prrrroblem solved ;) 14:36:04 <TrueBrain> that is what I meant too, so yes 14:36:09 <Rubidium> though, for each language update it needs to check finger 14:36:25 <TrueBrain> well, in the call to WT3.1 we can then also indicate if there was a strgen update 14:36:52 <TrueBrain> not really pretty though 14:37:14 <Rubidium> separate call that some the strgen data changed? 14:37:21 <TrueBrain> yup 14:37:24 <TrueBrain> synchronized 14:37:27 <TrueBrain> should work 14:37:58 <Rubidium> the only issue: how to cheaply compile them 14:38:34 <TrueBrain> branches are here again an issue, yes 14:46:16 <OwenS> w00t! My AST looks reasonable! 14:46:51 *** Fuco [~dota.keys@ip-105.imafexbb.sk] has joined #openttd 14:47:11 *** bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has joined #openttd 14:51:15 <Eddi|zuHause> TrueBrain: if it said "account successfully created", is it normal that i can't login? 14:59:37 <glx> Eddi|zuHause: on WT3 ? 14:59:46 <Eddi|zuHause> on noaddedsugar 15:01:50 *** worldemar [~tsukimiya@188.122.229.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:52 <Belugas> two sugar and no milk for me, please 15:11:06 <Eddi|zuHause> i am not your coffee maid 15:12:56 <Belugas> hey... I said Please! 15:13:15 <Belugas> what can one man do to have a decent service in here??? 15:14:05 *** Lakie [~Lakie@91.84.251.149] has joined #openttd 15:14:10 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: you should have received an email 15:14:13 <TrueBrain> but I enabled your account 15:14:44 <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, i think the email took a while 15:14:55 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc9a9.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:20:45 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:40 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db109ac.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 15:23:06 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 15:25:16 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:48 *** PhoenixII [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:28:02 *** Phoenix_the_II [ralph@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd 15:53:15 *** Mucht [~Martin@chello080109200215.3.sc-graz.chello.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:55:15 *** Wolle [DrJekyll@p57B0DA59.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 15:57:38 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17087 /extra/strgen/ (Makefile Makefile.sub): [strgen] -Change: rework the makefile a bit so it can be reused more efficiently 16:01:43 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17088 /trunk/src/date.cpp: -Codechange: split IncreaseDate() to more procedures 16:01:43 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:04:13 <fonsinchen> Smatz, are you still interested in smallmap zoom? 16:04:30 <SmatZ> fonsinchen: yeah :) 16:04:48 <fonsinchen> I have split the patch in FS#54 in three parts, as I had announces 16:05:01 <SmatZ> ah, great :) 16:05:09 <fonsinchen> smallmap-zoom-out doesn't contain any code unnecessary for zooming out. 16:05:12 <SmatZ> I got the notice, but haven't read that yet 16:06:10 <fonsinchen> ok, I just wanted to mention that. 16:14:23 <TrueBrain> plopperdeplop 16:14:58 * valhallasw sees TrueBrain doing the kabouterdans 16:15:16 <TrueBrain> saperdeflap! 16:15:48 <TrueBrain> valhallasw: yesterday I tried to find a Windows computer at HL which was XP or newer ... I couldn't :( 16:15:56 <TrueBrain> do you know how much that annoyed me? :) 16:16:14 <valhallasw> TrueBrain: the new computers in the PHYSICS network will be XP 16:16:20 <TrueBrain> WILL be 16:16:22 <TrueBrain> USELESS 16:16:23 <valhallasw> and most non-education computers are XP afaik :P 16:16:32 <TrueBrain> all strw run linux :p 16:16:44 <valhallasw> or win95/98 for measurement computers *grin* 16:17:11 <TrueBrain> and because of the holidays all people who could help me, were out :p 16:17:14 <TrueBrain> I was so annoyed! 16:17:38 <valhallasw> what do you want to do? change your password? :P 16:18:07 <TrueBrain> haha 16:18:23 <TrueBrain> no, a friend of mine wanted to print her thesis 16:18:25 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e180224092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd 16:18:30 <TrueBrain> with a non-normal font 16:18:35 *** C-Otto [~cotto@ip2-169.halifax.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has left #openttd [] 16:18:39 *** |Jeroen| [~jeroen@94-224-31-113.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO] 16:18:51 <TrueBrain> fun fact about passwords: I always use my ssh key to login to strw ... turns out my password is invalidated long ago :p 16:18:58 <TrueBrain> so I couldn't login at the systems via tty :p 16:19:01 <valhallasw> :D 16:19:24 <OwenS> lol 16:19:38 <TrueBrain> downside of always working from home :) 16:20:47 <TrueBrain> passwords .. reminds me I was going to look into ldap authentication for all OpenTTD services 16:22:08 <TrueBrain> "flyspray openttd" gives 10k results in google ... it is one of the suggestions .. lol 16:26:58 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEda72.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:55 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I've recently struggled with LDAP for my server auth, so I might be able to provide some support when you try 16:39:42 <OwenS> Hmm... time to learn how to include some LLVM ASM in my binary :p 16:50:20 <OwenS> I should probably join #llvm :p 16:52:26 <TrueBrain> blathijs: well, I need to know how to connect all the software to it :) 16:52:29 <TrueBrain> and how to create accounts in it :p 16:54:01 <blathijs> TrueBrain: I've been using phpldapadmin for the latter, but it is not quite optimal 16:54:13 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 16:54:17 <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: very clear story, tnx; will see wha tI can do for you :) 16:54:21 <TrueBrain> blathijs: yeah, it has to be automated :) 16:55:40 <TrueBrain> flyspray for sure can used ldap 16:56:08 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Ah, automating is easier :-) 16:56:22 <blathijs> Just generate an LDIF and cram it into ldap_modify 16:56:35 <TrueBrain> ldif? 16:56:40 <blathijs> Or use ldapvi, which I do as well (which supports a LDIF-like format that is slightly more friendly) 16:56:52 <blathijs> TrueBrain: That's the default text mode format for LDAP changes 16:57:00 <blathijs> or LDAP output, for that matter 16:57:06 <TrueBrain> ah :) 16:57:16 <TrueBrain> well, first things first ... I need to know how Django supports LDAP 16:57:40 <TrueBrain> and I wonder if I can link PAM accounts to it 16:57:56 <blathijs> I don't have that setup yet, most of my webapps authenicate against phpbb for me :-) 16:58:09 <blathijs> PAM to LDAP, or Django to PAM? 16:58:14 <TrueBrain> PAM to LDAP 16:58:17 <TrueBrain> for ssh logins 16:58:25 <TrueBrain> that the developers passwords are synced too 16:58:55 <blathijs> Ah, that's not so hard 16:59:23 <blathijs> If you limit to just LDAP, it's really easy, if you want both LDAP and /etc/passwd, it requires slightly more work for graceful fallback 17:00:06 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 17:00:13 <TrueBrain> I guess LDAP groups should work too 17:02:03 *** OwenSX48BD [~oshepherd@host86-129-6-166.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd 17:02:20 <TrueBrain> k, by the looks integrating LDAP with Django is easy enough 17:02:41 *** OwenS is now known as Guest719 17:02:41 *** OwenSX48BD is now known as owens 17:02:44 *** owens is now known as OwenS 17:03:01 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17089 /trunk/src/ (date.cpp vehicle.cpp vehicle_base.h): -Codechange: move RunVehicleDayProc() to vehicle.cpp 17:03:49 <TrueBrain> Redmine can use LDAP just fine .. then it is just a matter of doing this without breaking any system :p 17:03:50 <TrueBrain> haha 17:04:26 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db109ac.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: reboot] 17:04:53 <TrueBrain> (and setting up a LDAP .. which I have never done before :p) 17:05:02 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Have a look at http://git.stderr.nl/gitweb?p=servers.git;a=tree;f=etc;h=882814f3a3f00 17:05:25 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Especially /etc/pam.d/common-* and /etc/*nss* 17:05:41 *** Guest719 [~oshepherd@host86-128-254-175.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:06:00 <TrueBrain> blathijs: looks useful, tnx 17:07:17 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db109ac.pool.einsundeins.de] has joined #openttd 17:07:17 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:07:39 <TrueBrain> blathijs: I will bug you some more next week or something 17:08:25 *** TinoDidriksen [~tino@port432.ds1-od.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #openttd 17:10:12 <Ammler> hmm, would the 2nd company color work for base graphics? 17:10:40 <glx> it's a newgrf feature 17:13:03 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@54.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 17:14:38 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 17:14:46 <Ammler> so you need to code a sprite, just using the 2cc color in the sprite isn't enouh? 17:14:48 <Ammler> g 17:17:15 <Ammler> just asking because Born Acorn used orange for the 2nd color in his opengfx trains, if the company color is orange too, it looks a bit monotone. 17:18:01 <blathijs> TrueBrain: Feel free :-) 17:18:11 <blathijs> Though I'll be away until tuesday, probably 17:18:21 <TrueBrain> I don't expect to start earlier ;) 17:22:26 <glx> Ammler: 2cc usage is set in Action 0 17:22:50 <glx> misc flags 17:24:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17090 /trunk/bin/ai/regression/regression.txt: -Fix (r17089): regression test failed (frosch123) 17:24:27 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:28:34 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #openttd 17:28:51 *** Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.238] has joined #openttd 17:28:54 *** mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ 17:28:57 <Yexo> good evening 17:29:32 <Eddi|zuHause> Ammler: if the 2cc flag is not set, only the 1st cc recolour map is applied 17:33:05 *** Mark [~Mark@94.208.109.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:35:30 *** Baffage [~potetfar@ti0010a380-dhcp2029.bb.online.no] has quit [] 17:35:31 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17091 /trunk/ (bin/ai/regression/regression.txt src/vehicle.cpp): -Fix (r17089)(r17090): regression test was right 17:35:34 <SmatZ> enough shame for today 17:36:12 * Belugas knows the feeling 17:36:12 <petern> haha 17:36:20 <petern> scotland's shame? 17:36:29 <Belugas> hooo.... so tempting! 17:36:48 <Belugas> so.. would it be M or keep on NIN? 17:37:17 <petern> # keep on ninning 17:37:23 <Belugas> indeed... 17:37:30 <Belugas> but... that's becasue no M around 17:37:55 <Belugas> #Keep on Rocking in a free world 17:43:56 <TrueBrain> howdie Yexo 17:43:59 <TrueBrain> noai.openttd.org is all set up 17:44:06 <TrueBrain> Subversion repos are created every hour 17:44:09 <TrueBrain> I believe at :17 17:44:11 <Yexo> hello TrueBrain 17:44:15 <Yexo> thanks, nice work :) 17:44:16 <TrueBrain> so after creating a project you have to wait for a bit :) 17:44:22 <Yexo> that's no problem 17:44:23 <TrueBrain> stupid Redmine requires root priveleges to do so ... 17:44:48 <Yexo> but noai.openttd.org doesn't load currently 17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17092 /trunk/src/lang/ (4 files in 2 dirs): 17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0: 17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 2 changes by Gavin 17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: frisian - 36 changes by huddekul 17:45:27 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: german - 57 changes by Roujin 17:45:29 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: spanish - 48 changes by Terkhen 17:45:43 <TrueBrain> hmm .. long live apache :( 17:46:41 *** fjb_ [~frank@p5485F789.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 17:47:01 <Ammler> TrueBrain: we run redmine with passenger, then it runs with the user the redmine web belongs too. 17:47:05 <OwenS> I'm gonna need to create a series of macros for writing these intrinsics... 17:47:20 <TrueBrain> Ammler: your point being? 17:48:18 <Rubidium> petern: can I get your preference on http://rbijker.net/openttd/fs3091-possible-strings.txt ? 17:48:53 <Ammler> in our case it is the user redmine, you could make sudoers for it, e.g. dunno, what exactly root needs :-) 17:49:38 <TrueBrain> yeah, and for that you really need passenger 17:49:39 <TrueBrain> lol :) 17:49:43 <TrueBrain> but okay, tnx for your 2 cents :) 17:49:52 *** Pygma_ [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 17:50:19 <Ammler> oh, nvm, it doesn't run with the web user, it is like suexec or how that is called. 17:52:07 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: truebrain * r17093 /extra/website/general/views.py: [website] -Fix: wrong render_to_response caused 500 errors 17:52:18 <TrueBrain> anyway ... noai still doesn't load ... no idae why not :( 17:52:35 <Rubidium> try booting lighty? 17:52:39 <TrueBrain> tried 17:52:54 <TrueBrain> 92.241.168.197 - - [06/Aug/2009:17:12:14 +0000] "GET /w00tw00t.at.ISC.SANS.DFind:) HTTP/1.1" 400 375 "-" "-" 17:52:55 <TrueBrain> w00t 17:53:17 <Rubidium> w00t00f 17:53:26 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:26 *** Pygma_ [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:53:36 *** fjb [~frank@p5485B4A9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 17:55:08 <TrueBrain> there we go 17:55:11 <TrueBrain> passenger was hanging 17:55:37 <Rubidium> suicidal application? 17:55:48 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has joined #openttd 17:56:06 <TrueBrain> dunno what went wrong :) I do know it runs again 17:56:24 <frosch123> do we need a forward noai@openttd.org to yexo? :) 17:56:28 <TrueBrain> Yexo: let me know if you need anything else :) 17:56:36 <TrueBrain> frosch123: there already is :p 17:56:41 * OwenS wonders how well LLVM will optimize his binary operation on variant code :p 17:59:07 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C0C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:17 <Yexo> I'd like some advice on how to set up the svn repos, since I've never done that before 18:01:33 <TrueBrain> create the dirs 'tags', 'branches' and 'trunk' ;) 18:01:34 <Yexo> should I just create a directory trunk/ and put main.nut / library.nut in there? 18:01:56 <TrueBrain> I always make r1 the layout commit, and after that the content :) 18:02:44 <frosch123> @openttd commit 1 18:02:44 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Commit by truelight :: r1 / (202 files in 13 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC) 18:02:45 <DorpsGek> frosch123: Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN 18:02:51 <frosch123> ^^ always :) 18:02:55 <TrueBrain> exceptions there ;) 18:03:00 <glx> doesn't count 18:03:03 <TrueBrain> and damn, that was long ago :) 18:03:06 <frosch123> true, it is by truelight 18:03:21 <TrueBrain> I am getting OLD! :( 18:04:59 <Belugas> pffffff 18:05:02 <Belugas> RIGHT! 18:05:34 * TrueBrain hugs Belugas 18:05:47 <Yexo> TrueBrain: what username / password is valid for svn? 18:05:57 <TrueBrain> Yexo: the one you login with to RedMine :) 18:06:06 <TrueBrain> RedMine managed the SVN access 18:06:11 *** Mark [~Mark@5ED06D96.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:06:15 <Yexo> either tha tone doesn't work, or I'm doing something wrong 18:06:20 <TrueBrain> so if you assign a random person as Developer to it, he can commit 18:06:24 <TrueBrain> what URL do you use? 18:06:34 <Yexo> http://noai.openttd.org/svn/lib-binaryheap 18:07:37 *** Biolunar [mahdi@blfd-4db109ac.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Quit: saufen \o/] 18:07:45 <Yexo> the URL* field in Redmine says: "file:///var/repos/svn/lib-binaryheap", but that doesn't help me at all 18:07:52 <TrueBrain> haha, no :p 18:07:55 <TrueBrain> the URL is correct 18:08:01 <TrueBrain> usernames appear case-sensitive 18:08:04 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.2.97] has joined #openttd 18:08:22 <Yexo> I'm using "Yexo", as is my loginname in Redmine 18:08:33 <TrueBrain> yup 18:08:38 <TrueBrain> I get an error with MKACTIVITY 18:08:50 <Yexo> same here, but only after some attempts 18:09:43 <TrueBrain> hmm 18:09:46 <TrueBrain> appears to be https problem 18:10:08 <TrueBrain> and doing https is tricky 18:10:34 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has joined #openttd 18:10:59 *** Svish|eee_ [~Svish@54.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 18:17:27 *** Svish|eee__ [~Svish@54.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has joined #openttd 18:18:15 *** Svish|eee [~Svish@54.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:19:38 *** ecke [~ecke@213.195.202.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:20:47 *** Elton06131 [~Delphi@189.82.166.192] has joined #openttd 18:22:54 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Quit: Flieht, ihr Narren!] 18:23:00 <TrueBrain> Yexo: hmm, it looks like authentication fails in general for the SVN dir .. and I have no clue why :p 18:23:32 <Yexo> if I can help in any way, please let me know 18:23:41 <TrueBrain> fix my problem? :P 18:24:20 *** Svish|eee_ [~Svish@54.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:25:28 <Belugas> yes, you can Yexo: two sugar and no milk for me, please 18:25:33 <Belugas> thanks ;) 18:25:55 <Yexo> as soon as you arrive here your coffee will be ready :) 18:26:03 *** Elton06131 [~Delphi@189.82.166.192] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:26:07 <Belugas> lol 18:26:41 <TrueBrain> nowhere it records WHY it fails :( 18:32:30 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:37 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:39:54 *** TheMask96 [martijn@greed.vhost.ne2000.nl] has joined #openttd 18:41:50 <TrueBrain> hmm .. the URL is a bit fuzzy 18:41:53 <OwenS> OMG YAY 18:42:03 <OwenS> I got my intrinsics to assemble :-D 18:42:28 <TrueBrain> it keeps on thinking it is accessing /svn 18:43:18 <OwenS> It only took 60 lines of LLVM ASM to perform type coercion... :p 18:43:25 *** Svish|eee__ [~Svish@54.242.251.212.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:43:58 <OwenS> "only" 18:45:34 <TrueBrain> Yexo: try commiting now 18:45:54 <Yexo> it worked :) 18:45:56 <TrueBrain> haha 18:45:58 <Yexo> thanks :) 18:45:58 <TrueBrain> very simple problem: 18:46:03 <TrueBrain> you were not a manager of the project 18:46:04 <TrueBrain> :) 18:46:11 <Yexo> haha 18:46:11 <TrueBrain> I assumed Administrators would always be allowed .. but they are not :) 18:46:16 *** forconin [forconin@ttd.bitsex.net] has joined #openttd 18:46:19 <TrueBrain> Yexo: so for next time: add yourself as manager or developer :p 18:46:30 <TrueBrain> Yexo: can I suggest to follow OpenTTD commit style? 18:46:31 <forconin> Hey, can anyone tell me where to config sub-tropical climate in openttd.cfg ? 18:46:33 <TrueBrain> -Add / -Fix / ... 18:46:43 <forconin> On a dedicated server that is. 18:46:59 <TrueBrain> took me 30 minutes to figure this out :s bah .. 18:47:08 *** Jeej [~Karl@5ED4D407.cable.ziggo.nl] has joined #openttd 18:47:26 *** forconin is now known as Forconin 18:47:30 <Jeej> Hello, how replace i simple all the cars i have? 18:47:37 <Forconin> Noone? I would think it is the "landscape"-section. 18:47:42 <frosch123> TrueBrain: can I suggest to use the same pre-commit-hook as for ottd, esp. for whitespace :) 18:47:47 *** thisismynick [~chatzilla@95.72.2.97] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.2/20090729225027]] 18:47:48 <Forconin> But the wiki isn't helping, it just describes the different climates. 18:48:05 <TrueBrain> frosch123: hmm .. good point, but it is not that easy to insert pre/post hooks in this automated situation ... 18:48:07 <OwenS> Hang on... crap... my intrinsics function assumes that a binary operator returns the same type as it takes in... it probably doesn't... 18:48:37 <Yexo> <Forconin> Noone? <- give it some more time, irc isn't "Ask and always get an answer in 2 minutes" 18:48:38 *** Markk [~markk@rikskriminalen.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 18:49:13 <Belugas> Forconin : easy. remove openttd.cfg, start a game in sub trop, save it, close the game. check waht openttd.cfg now contains ^_^ 18:49:33 <Forconin> Can't 18:49:35 <Yexo> Forconin: it's 'landscape' under [game_creation] 18:49:36 <Forconin> dedicated linux-server 18:49:39 <Forconin> no GUI 18:49:48 <Forconin> Yexo: Thought so, any idea what it should say? 18:49:55 <Forconin> tried with "tropical" and "sub-tropical" 18:49:57 <Forconin> no go 18:50:18 <TrueBrain> clearly you can test it, which means you have a GUI somewhere 18:50:28 <TrueBrain> so Belugas is the most safe way to approach your problem 18:50:45 <Yexo> temperate|arctic|tropic|toyland 18:50:57 <Forconin> Thank you very much :) 18:51:08 <TrueBrain> now edit the wiki page and add that :p 18:51:15 <TrueBrain> Jeej: auto replace? 18:51:17 <Yexo> since you have searched the wiki and haven't found this information, can you please add it to the wiki page you'd expect it? 18:51:20 <Forconin> Give me a minute =) 18:51:25 <Forconin> and yes of course. 18:51:57 <Jeej> TrueBrain: with auto replace you are not able to replace a car of the same type 18:52:18 <TrueBrain> then I wouldn't know :) 18:52:18 <Yexo> Jeej: use autorenew 18:52:37 <Yexo> but then cars will only be replaced when they get old 18:52:40 <Belugas> why running on a dedicated server withouth better experience??? this is runing for trouble 18:52:43 <Yexo> it's either that or autoreplace 18:52:53 <Jeej> Where can i find autorenew? 18:52:54 * Belugas shakes his head, a bit disapointed 18:53:13 <Yexo> Jeej: somewhere under "Advanced settings" 18:54:23 <Jeej> Yexo: thank you, found it 18:54:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v Belugas] by ChanServ 18:54:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v petern] by ChanServ 18:54:37 *** mode/#openttd [+v Rubidium] by ChanServ 18:54:40 *** mode/#openttd [+v orudge] by ChanServ 18:55:48 *** Jeej [~Karl@5ED4D407.cable.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: Jeej] 18:55:56 <Forconin> There, added to wiki. 18:55:59 <Forconin> Thanks for the help. :) 18:56:57 <Yexo> Forconin: where did you add it? no change of you show up on Special:Recentchanges 18:58:28 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEda72.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 18:58:33 <Forconin> Oh [[Climate]] 18:58:49 <Forconin> there 18:58:54 <Forconin> Didnt notice the CAPTCHA 18:59:38 <Forconin> Registered a account at the wiki for next time. 19:04:53 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-5-190.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has joined #openttd 19:10:17 *** fjb_ is now known as fjb 19:11:11 <OwenS> Hmm.. Typeof, operator or builtin function? :p 19:12:08 <frosch123> how could typeof and siizeof be functions? 19:12:17 <OwenS> In the language I'm developing :p 19:12:58 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 19:14:22 <frosch123> in that case what is the difference of functions and operators? 19:14:32 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.74.135] has joined #openttd 19:14:53 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.74.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:04 <OwenS> Syntax mainly: typeof(x) vs typeof x 19:15:42 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.74.135] has joined #openttd 19:17:39 <blathijs> OwenS: I'd go for operator, since a function is really something else (mostly runtime vs compiletime) 19:18:16 <OwenS> Not in a scripting language :p 19:18:37 <TrueBrain> even in a scripting language 19:18:51 <TrueBrain> runtime means that even after JIT it needs to be evaluated every time it comes past that function 19:18:57 <TrueBrain> where compiletime means it is done just once 19:19:12 <OwenS> Aah true, I can in some cases optimize away typeofs :p 19:19:18 <blathijs> TrueBrain: For an dynamically typed language, typeof might still be runtime 19:19:34 <TrueBrain> blathijs: true 19:19:40 <TrueBrain> but yeah, it allows optimizing 19:19:44 *** Azrael- [~azraeluk@cpc4-papw2-0-0-cust778.cmbg.cable.ntl.com] has joined #openttd 19:19:52 <TrueBrain> typeof, instanceof, ... you want that to be part of your language 19:20:12 <blathijs> OwenS: OTOH, in LLVM the typeof thing will probably become a function again :-) 19:20:45 <Prof_Frink> Sacro: Fail. 19:20:46 <OwenS> blathijs: Depends :p 19:20:54 <Sacro> ? 19:21:00 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: wha? 19:21:10 <Prof_Frink> See over there <-- 19:21:10 <blathijs> OwenS: Are there any other options? 19:21:14 <OwenS> TrueBrain: instanceof? Nah. if typeof(x) == Integer is better :P 19:21:22 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: wha? 19:21:30 <Prof_Frink> window 2. 19:21:33 <blathijs> OwenS: Intrinsics perhaps, but those are really functions as well 19:21:37 <OwenS> blathijs: Yes. If my front end can deduce that the variable is of a type at compile time :p 19:21:43 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: window to is #freeside on irc.freeside.co.uk 19:21:46 <blathijs> OwenS: How will that handle inheritance? 19:21:47 <Sacro> 2 i mean 19:21:55 <OwenS> I.E. if you do "typeof 2" I know it's an Integer :p 19:21:58 <Prof_Frink> Lies. 19:22:03 <Sacro> nope, truth 19:22:16 <Prof_Frink> 2 is a bad place. 19:22:16 <blathijs> OwenS: Right, but in that case, the typeof will disappear alltogether :-) 19:22:36 <OwenS> And if it doesn't dissapear it's just a load of the first member of the variant struct :p 19:22:45 <Sacro> Prof_Frink: oh? 19:23:39 <OwenS> blathijs: Good point. Need instanceof :p 19:24:36 <blathijs> OwenS: Any particular occasion for building this language, or just for sport? 19:25:17 <OwenS> blathijs: To go in an app I'm developing. Nothing matches the mix of speed, ease of use and preemptibility I need 19:25:49 <blathijs> What kind of app? 19:26:01 *** Splex [~splex@121.165.245.76] has joined #openttd 19:26:01 <OwenS> 3D virtual world type thing :p 19:26:07 <blathijs> Ah, nice 19:26:24 <blathijs> Are there any other script language with an LLVM backend that you know of? 19:26:46 <OwenS> No. I know of compiled languages, but not script ones. Other than the "Kaleidoscope" tutorial language :p 19:27:19 <blathijs> And kaleidoscope didn't match your requirements? Weird :-p 19:27:32 <blathijs> Planning on releasing your language separately 19:27:49 <OwenS> Yeah, I'm developing it seperately as AlterScript (The program it's going in is called AlterVerse, so it seems logical :P ) 19:28:28 <blathijs> Both with a free license? 19:28:54 <OwenS> I'm not quite sure about AlterVerse being free (Most probably though), but AlterScript will be at least LGPL 19:30:07 *** Polygon [~Poly@x0581b.wh7.tu-dresden.de] has joined #openttd 19:30:56 <OwenS> LLVM does have a function inlining optimizer right? :P 19:30:56 <blathijs> You might want to take the hint from LLVM and use a BSD license :-) 19:31:05 <blathijs> Yup, it has 19:31:27 <OwenS> :-). I'm gonna need it for my "_as_binop" 'intrinsic' 19:32:01 <blathijs> It should also still have some cool constant propagation optimizers, on which I hacked a year back :-P 19:32:02 <OwenS> (It's the big block of code which vectors binary operators correctly) 19:36:10 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17094 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_changelog.hpp: -Update: AI changelog 19:37:59 <blathijs> I wonder if my commit access still works :-) 19:38:53 <OwenS> I wish C++ protected was more like Java protected though (I.E. accessible from members of your namespace) 19:39:05 <Rubidium> blathijs: quite likely 19:39:57 <OwenS> brb 19:40:14 <OwenS> (Wait crap, wrong window) 19:47:11 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-143-150.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #openttd 19:49:00 * OwenS prepares to embed the LLVM Assembler in his language (To assemble the intrinsics) 19:50:18 <petern> blathijs, it probably will, i don't think you're on "i don't like this person so i'll pretend we disable access after a while" list 19:51:25 <blathijs> OwenS: Can't you just ship with bitcode? 19:51:37 <OwenS> Probably 19:52:03 <blathijs> Should be easy to embed the assembler, though :-) 19:52:04 <OwenS> That would probably be better, just involve more prodding :p 19:52:12 <OwenS> Class LLParser :p 19:52:17 <blathijs> more prodding? 19:52:28 <OwenS> To find the class to use to load bitcode :p 19:52:36 <blathijs> ah :-) 19:52:45 <Yexo> Any suggestions for a directory structure for the ai libraries? See http://paste.openttd.org/186891 for my current thoughts 19:53:04 <blathijs> OwenS: You might want to have a look at the opt source I think 19:53:16 <blathijs> I can't remember how this stuff worked exactly anymore :-) 19:53:24 * blathijs is off for a bit 19:53:43 <OwenS> Linker.h... hmm! :p 19:54:07 <Rubidium> Yexo: what about making bananas scrub license.txt if you don't specify 'custom license'? 19:54:21 <Yexo> that solves one of the problems 19:55:59 <OwenS> Aah! llvm::BitcodeReader 19:56:12 <Rubidium> place the tar in the directory of the makefile, or make a bundle/bundles directory, but that doesn't make much sense as basically everything gets into the tar 19:56:39 <Yexo> thanks, I'll do that 19:58:21 <blathijs> OwenS: Yeah, that was the one :-) 20:03:26 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has quit [Quit: KVIrc Insomnia 4.0.0, revision: , sources date: 20090115, built on: 2009/03/07 00:45:02 UTC http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:04:21 *** tux_mark_5 [~kvirc@lan-84-240-29-163.vln.skynet.lt] has joined #openttd 20:05:05 <Yexo> TrueBrain: can you please implement fs#2954 ? 20:11:16 <TrueBrain> OwenS: instanceof !== typeof, I hope you do realise that 20:11:21 <TrueBrain> typeof(instance) == class 20:11:26 <TrueBrain> instanceof(instance) == "name-of-class" 20:11:35 <TrueBrain> Yexo: tomorrow, if I don't forget 20:11:44 <TrueBrain> (isn't the easiest thing to do :( ) 20:11:44 <Yexo> TrueBrain: bananas misses 0.7.2 as version 20:11:51 <TrueBrain> that too, I will do tomorrow :) 20:12:02 <Yexo> ok ;) 20:12:53 <Yexo> and what's your opinion about removing license.txt from uploaded tar files if you don't specify 'custom license'? 20:12:56 <OwenS> TrueBrain: In my case, a instanceof t = typeof a == t or typeof a == t.base or typeof a == t.base.base ... 20:14:09 <Yexo> OwenS: that looks very wrong, don't you mean "subclass of t" instead of "t.base"? 20:14:31 <OwenS> Sorry, by bases are on the wrong side :p 20:14:37 <OwenS> my** 20:16:31 *** Markk [~markk@rikskriminalen.com] has joined #openttd 20:17:20 <TrueBrain> Yexo: explicit adding license.txt never hurts anyone 20:17:28 <TrueBrain> the idea is simple: if you downloaded the file, you don't know the license 20:17:37 <TrueBrain> so a license.txt is needed to specify that after downloading :) 20:17:44 <Yexo> TrueBrain: that's completely besides the point 20:17:46 <TrueBrain> oh, uploading 20:17:51 <TrueBrain> sorry, read downloading 20:17:52 <Yexo> yes :) 20:17:56 <TrueBrain> at uploading it isn't needed 20:18:01 <TrueBrain> or at least, not the last time I touched the code 20:18:11 <TrueBrain> you only need to supply license.txt when you do a custom license 20:18:26 <Yexo> last time I tested, license.txt if forbidden when uploading when chosing a non-custom license 20:18:54 <TrueBrain> okay, so I guess I didn't understand you again :p 20:19:01 <TrueBrain> this time it is more because of the way you wrote your question ;) 20:19:14 <TrueBrain> I think you mean, that in case someone does supply a license.txt, it should silently be removed? 20:19:20 <Yexo> the problem: I'd like to generate ai library tar files from a makefile. That makefile should include license.txt in the tar file. Now I have to make another tile file to upload to bananas. 20:19:23 <Yexo> yep 20:19:25 <frosch123> pick the language based on an white-space ignoring compare of the uploaded license with the default ones :) 20:19:29 <Rubidium> he wants that if license_selected != custom && license_added != None: license_added = None 20:19:53 <TrueBrain> okay, then I understand what you mean .. took me long enough :p 20:20:07 <TrueBrain> that said, I think it is good that you can't have a license.txt when selecting a non-custom 20:20:23 <TrueBrain> say you have a custom license, you upload, select a license not knowing what it does 20:20:25 <TrueBrain> poef, other license 20:20:29 <Yexo> yes, but see my case above, there are some problems with it 20:20:39 <TrueBrain> so what frosch123 says is an option 20:20:46 <Yexo> that'd work fine :) 20:21:07 <TrueBrain> k .. will put it on my list 20:21:13 <TrueBrain> don't expect it any time soon, as BaNaNaS code is ugly!!! :p 20:21:15 <TrueBrain> haha :) 20:21:36 <TrueBrain> gone for the night 20:21:41 <TrueBrain> bye all :) 20:21:46 <Yexo> gn TrueBrain 20:21:47 <Rubidium> night TrueBrain 20:21:58 <OwenS> night 20:22:05 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17095 /trunk/src/ (strgen/strgen.cpp strings.cpp): -Codechange: make ParseStringChoice a bit safer 20:24:31 *** Progman [~progman@p57A1C0C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:29:24 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17096 /trunk/src/lang/english.txt: -Fix [FS#3091]: news message about ordered refits failing wasn't very clear 20:31:30 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBECF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 20:37:20 <petern> hey tdev, fixed the scripting error yet? :D 20:37:30 <tdev> hi 20:37:34 <tdev> D: 20:37:35 <tdev> no 20:37:47 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-109-114-129.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #openttd 20:37:55 <tdev> presentation at work today, was not able to work on anything else :/ 20:38:14 <petern> oh, you mean you normally work on ror at work? ;) 20:42:24 <Belugas> Is it THAT surprising? heheh 20:46:30 *** frosch123 [~frosch@frnk-590fc9a9.pool.einsundeins.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:55 <Eddi|zuHause> what's weird about my railway is that i am missing (at least) two steam engines and a set of passenger+mail wagons 20:49:00 *** bb10 [~nn@dhcp-077-248-075-030.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 20:49:11 <Eddi|zuHause> i searched all accessible parts of the house, and couldn't find them 20:50:02 <Belugas> the cat swallowed them 20:50:27 <Eddi|zuHause> i don't think so... 20:51:17 <Rubidium> they have been misplaced 20:51:42 <Rubidium> either by you, but you can't remember it, or by someone else, possibly without your consent 20:52:19 <Eddi|zuHause> most likely, the haven't been touched since we moved 20:52:23 <Eddi|zuHause> that was 12 years ago 20:52:25 *** Zr40 [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has joined #openttd 20:52:43 <Eddi|zuHause> +y 20:56:42 <Eddi|zuHause> they could possibly be in places that are not accessible 20:58:43 *** Zr40_ [~zr40@120-12-ftth.onsnetstudenten.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 21:02:17 *** andythenorth [~andy@87.115.74.135] has quit [Quit: andythenorth] 21:16:38 <Belugas> damned... ninjam is TOTALLY empty 21:16:55 <petern> oh 21:17:00 <petern> i'm on our server 21:17:01 <petern> hmm 21:17:09 <petern> although not playing, hehe 21:17:37 * petern moves 21:18:23 <Belugas> they'll be coming like flies over... hem... 21:18:41 <Belugas> like kids on a bag of candies ;) 21:21:40 <Eddi|zuHause> and apparently my desk is not fully horizontal... 21:21:50 <Eddi|zuHause> the wagons roll downhill 21:24:37 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: Isn't that realistic? =P 21:25:05 <Eddi|zuHause> err... yes, but here shouldn't be a "down" 21:26:03 <OwenS> Our fish tank is on a decided slant. It's very obvious when the water level comes lower than the rim arround the top :p 21:26:47 <OwenS> I think the slant is tank induced though (I.E. 0.3tonnes of water on some wood...) 21:27:37 <Belugas> told you, petern :) already 2 flies hem... kids 21:30:23 <petern> yerah 21:34:48 <petern> not working though 21:35:34 *** Svish [~Svish@84.20.108.11] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:37:24 <Eddi|zuHause> who stole my screwdriver? 21:37:38 *** keoz [~keikoz@pha75-8-82-230-2-115.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:57 <Rubidium> you put it with the steam engines 21:38:05 *** Elton04627 [~Delphi@201008145180.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:48 <Belugas> i'm not there... what can you expect ^_^ 21:42:29 <Belugas> Eddi|zuHause ! 21:42:31 <Belugas> [17:27] <Shinaku> oh btw 21:42:31 <Belugas> [17:27] <Shinaku> found your screwdriver 21:42:46 <Eddi|zuHause> haha :P 21:42:58 <Belugas> lol 21:43:35 <Eddi|zuHause> where is this guy so i can sue him for stealing? 21:43:43 <Belugas> #tycoon :D 21:44:02 *** DPyro [~darkpyro@pool-173-74-156-12.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 21:44:23 *** Zahl [~Zahl@e180224092.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: *schiel*] 21:46:38 <Eddi|zuHause> where do i get tiny replacement light bulbs from? 21:46:52 <Eddi|zuHause> i have at least three that are broken 21:48:10 *** Cybertinus [~Cybertinu@tunnel3304.ipv6.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:21 <Belugas> Reno-Depot.. They carray a lot of bulb types 21:48:39 <Belugas> Yui could try Canadian Tires too, but they tend to be expensive 21:49:01 <OwenS> Hmm... Perhaps the reason my compiler isn't compiling is that my front end is only calling the parser... 21:49:20 <glx> seems a valid reason OwenS 21:50:17 <OwenS> Error loading intrinsic bitcode file: Invalid bitcode signature O_o 21:50:48 <OwenS> src/AlterScript/Intrinsics.llo: ELF 64-bit LSB relocatable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped <-- May explain something 21:52:32 <OwenS> I'm passing -emit-llvm; why are you emitting an elf? O_o 21:54:38 <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: i should mention that those are east-german made vehicles, so the companies which made those might not be around anymore 21:55:30 <Belugas> mmh... right 21:55:47 <Belugas> well... if you are looking for originals, might be better to go for ebay 21:56:06 <Belugas> otherwise, all the hobby shops, i'd say 21:56:19 <Belugas> hobby = home, right? let's go home! 21:56:32 <Belugas> NIGHT! 21:57:45 *** Yexo [~Yexo@ip51cca4b5.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has quit [Quit: bye] 22:00:44 <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17097 /trunk/src/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Fix [FS#3092] (r13256): make restart command work again and make the help show how it works and how it doesn't work 22:05:42 <Eddi|zuHause> apparently, they are available on ebay 10 pieces for 5,90EUR + 4,90EUR shipping... 22:09:34 *** Pygma [~quassel@88.151.27.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:52 <glx> not expensive it seems 22:18:11 <Eddi|zuHause> "function untested" 22:18:55 <Eddi|zuHause> this steam engine is weird... the motor is mounted in the tender, not in the engine itself :p 22:19:38 <Eddi|zuHause> my test track is too short... 22:21:56 *** MapperOG [~Leya@p57B2C282.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 22:22:02 <MapperOG> what do you think about simutrans? 22:22:26 <Eddi|zuHause> we absolutely loathe and depise it... what did you think? 22:23:05 *** DPyro [~darkpyro@pool-173-74-156-12.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #openttd 22:23:06 <OwenS> YAAY! MY COMPILER JUST COMPILED IT'S FIRST FUNCTION! 22:23:21 <MapperOG> nah, I was interested in a real answer, no experience with simutrans, just saw a video and noticed that it's quite similar to openttd 22:23:21 <DPyro> but can your compiler compile a compiler? 22:23:28 *** random345 [~random@CPE0013a336f5d6-CM0011aefd44f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #openttd 22:23:55 <OwenS> DPyro: Said function just wastes cycles. It calculates 2 * 4 then discards it :p 22:24:58 <glx> so it's a useful function :) 22:25:13 *** random345 [~random@CPE0013a336f5d6-CM0011aefd44f0.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:25:32 <OwenS> Yeah. I haven't implemented function calls or return yet :p 22:27:13 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #openttd 22:27:20 <PeterT> hey 22:27:27 <PeterT> is TrueBrain here? 22:27:33 <OwenS> No. Hes sleeping 22:27:41 <PeterT> ok 22:28:17 <PeterT> sorry to burden you with this, but when/if he wakes up, could you tell him i ordered a book about c++ 22:29:19 <PeterT> and also, where can i check what revision 0.6.3 was? 22:30:46 <glx> 0.6.3 is 0.6.3 22:31:13 <PeterT> so what is the revision closest to it (lower) 22:31:25 <glx> won't help 22:31:36 <glx> revisions are shared between branches 22:31:36 <Ammler> buy a svn book 22:31:52 <glx> if you want 0.6.3 get tags/0.6.3 22:32:35 <PeterT> no, im trying to figure out if r11047 savegame is compatible with 0.6.3 22:33:03 <Ammler> afaik, stable branches don't make safe bumps 22:33:03 <glx> doesn't matter for savegames :) 22:33:05 <OwenS> tags/0.6.3 will tell you which revision 0.6.3 was 22:33:12 <Ammler> v 22:33:15 <OwenS> But, you need to check 0.6.0 for savegame versions :p 22:33:27 <OwenS> Well, 0.6.0rcX? :P 22:33:52 <glx> btw just try to load it in 0.6.3 and you'll know 22:34:00 <Rubidium> tags/0.6.3 would say that it's current revision in 17097, which isn't quite useful 22:34:55 <PeterT> i must not be following 22:35:05 <PeterT> svn.openttd.org/tags/0.6.3? 22:36:00 <OwenS> OK. Why is casting one double to a pointer working and another not? O_o 22:37:13 <OwenS> Oh, unary operators :P 22:37:14 <Ammler> PeterT: finger.openttd.org might be useful too 22:37:30 <PeterT> thanks 22:39:26 <TrueBrain> the sleeping ghost speaks to you 22:40:35 <PeterT> hello 22:40:39 *** Exl [~myself@cp1224652-a.roemd1.lb.home.nl] has quit [] 22:40:53 <PeterT> do i have to repeat myself or did you read it? 22:41:00 <TrueBrain> I see you double 22:41:07 <TrueBrain> so I think anything you say will be useless 22:41:08 <TrueBrain> hihi 22:41:10 <TrueBrain> night all 22:48:42 <OwenS> Yay! I just compiled a slightly longer useless function 22:48:57 <PeterT> congrats 22:49:34 <OwenS> (Not executable yet because I haven't filled the Type structures with operators :P ) 22:52:16 <PeterT> i will know what that means when i finish my c++ book 22:52:32 <PeterT> is it possible at ALL to patch IS and cargodest together? 22:52:49 <OwenS> I wasn't talking C++ :p 22:52:54 <glx> everything is possible 22:54:18 <Eddi|zuHause> *mental note* do not touch both tracks when 12V DC are attached to it... 22:54:30 *** nicfer [~Usuario@168.226.104.65] has joined #openttd 22:55:01 *** Brianetta [~brian@client-82-20-5-190.brhm.adsl.virgin.net] has quit [Quit: Tsch?ss] 22:55:11 <OwenS> lol. Hurt? :p 22:56:16 <fonsinchen> PeterT: it has been done with earlier revisions; multiple time and with cargodist as well as with cargodest 22:56:23 <fonsinchen> So I guess it's not that hard. 22:57:05 <PeterT> its been done? where can i download it? 22:58:13 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: not hurt in that sense, but it's not exaclty a pleasant feeling 22:58:24 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: like touching a cow fence 22:58:31 <Aali> err 22:58:45 <fonsinchen> Oh, sorry ... that was timetable separation, not infrastructure sharing. 22:59:04 <Aali> How could you even *feel* 12V? 22:59:06 <OwenS> I wish I could say I knew what a cow fence feels like... I think? 22:59:07 <PeterT> oh 22:59:13 <Aali> unless you were licking the rails :P 22:59:16 <fonsinchen> so I guess it hasn't been done. Which suggests it's exceptionally hard. 22:59:18 <Eddi|zuHause> fonsinchen: IS was done, too, afaik 23:00:05 <PeterT> too bad 23:00:21 <fonsinchen> Was it? Perhaps sometime earlier. Just look in the cargodist thread and you might find something. 23:00:39 <PeterT> cargodEst thread 23:01:00 <fonsinchen> well, if you want cargodEst I can't help you 23:01:22 <PeterT> whats the difference, i could never tell? 23:01:41 <fonsinchen> in short: cargodist is still developed, cargodest isn't 23:02:09 <fonsinchen> also they have different concepts on what demand is and how multiple parallel flows are to be handled 23:02:14 <fonsinchen> read it up in the Wiki 23:02:16 <Eddi|zuHause> i'm quite sure that cargodEst and IS was tested 23:02:30 <PeterT> and did it work? 23:03:28 <OwenS> Probably. A long time ago. With a long obsolete nightly 23:03:45 <PeterT> this is really annoying 23:04:02 <Aali> merging IS2.0 and cargodEst is dead simple 23:04:17 <PeterT> how? 23:04:20 <Aali> cargodist I have never tried but I can't imagine it being much worse 23:04:32 <PeterT> how is it dead simple? 23:04:33 <Aali> are you a programmer? 23:04:39 *** KritiK [~Maxim@78-106-143-150.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:04:41 <PeterT> no 23:04:45 <Aali> do you have some insight into the openttd codebase? 23:04:49 <Aali> then it's not simple 23:04:54 <Aali> :) 23:05:01 <PeterT> i have ordered a book on c++ 23:05:11 <PeterT> but tell me your thoughts 23:05:21 <Aali> so you have a few years to go then 23:05:23 <Aali> heh 23:05:41 <Aali> just pick one of the two patches for the time being 23:05:46 <Eddi|zuHause> did i ever tell you watching a 1'D1' engine making its rounds is awesome :) 23:05:48 <fonsinchen> merging two patches can probably be done with less than a few years of experience 23:06:22 <PeterT> how many dollars (euros) would i need to pay you to do it for me? 23:06:34 <Aali> fonsinchen: yes, doing it properly however is another matter :P 23:06:54 <Aali> PeterT: I'm on vacation 23:07:05 <PeterT> :) 23:07:05 <fonsinchen> Forget it. I'm not going to create more diverging versions of cargodist. If you want those, you have to do it yourself. 23:07:23 <OwenS> Aali: The proper way is merge one into OpenTTD trunk, let the second's developer find all the subtle incompatibilities, then merge the second :p 23:07:35 <PeterT> ok, well, im off 23:07:39 <PeterT> goodbye 23:07:44 *** PeterT [~Peter@c-76-19-209-23.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:38 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: the OpenTTD way is "let B merge A's patch, and then watch A throwing a hissy fit and revert B's commit" 23:08:48 <Aali> it's not the subtle incompatibilities I'm worried about 23:09:00 <Aali> everyone breaks the saveload code 23:09:02 <Aali> always 23:09:16 <OwenS> Eddi|zuHause: lol 23:09:32 <Eddi|zuHause> OwenS: well, that actually happened ;) 23:09:34 <OwenS> Aali: Aah true. Everything touches it :P 23:09:57 <Aali> even if they by divine intervention manage to stitch the rest together 23:10:02 <fonsinchen> It's probably impossible not to break the saveload code when merging two patches with savegame versions different from the trunk savegame version. 23:10:13 <Aali> the saveload code simply cannot be stitched together without breaking 23:10:56 <OwenS> Well, it can on rare occasion 23:11:03 <Aali> fonsinchen: you can't make it load everything, obviously 23:11:05 <Eddi|zuHause> i once managed to break my saveload code so far that i could load old versions of a patched savegame into trunk ;) 23:11:16 <fonsinchen> We should make the savegame version an extendable vector, each entry telling about the version of some feature. 23:11:46 <Aali> fonsinchen: no we should not :) 23:11:59 <Eddi|zuHause> there is a minor savegame version that could be used for patches, but nobody had the courage to actually use that one 23:12:05 <fonsinchen> Then I could add a linkgraph feature to the savegame and it wouldn't break compatibility with trunk if something is changed in trunk. 23:12:32 <Eddi|zuHause> (it says "do not use!" 23:12:34 <Eddi|zuHause> ) 23:12:51 <fonsinchen> Furthermore, it's not obvious how the minor version is intended to be used. 23:12:56 <Aali> the minor version was killed for a good reason 23:13:01 <Aali> it should stay dead 23:13:55 <fonsinchen> Aali, do you actually like all patches breaking with each trunk savegame bump? 23:14:41 <Aali> I couldn't care less 23:14:59 <Aali> want to play an old patched game? use the old version that created it 23:15:17 <fonsinchen> On the other hand you do like patches to be well tested before they are accepted, don't you? 23:15:35 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: that is not a good philosophy 23:16:00 <fonsinchen> Being able to load old savegames encourages people to run tests with new versions of the patch. 23:16:50 <fonsinchen> If they aren't able to load their savegames, they'll stick with some old version for playing them. Which is exactly what no one wants. 23:16:50 <Eddi|zuHause> exactly. savegame incompatibility is the main reason why people stay away from patches 23:17:47 <Aali> great, I'll just put down your names on the "Will provide support for all old versions of everything forever"-list then, shall I? :) 23:18:30 <fonsinchen> I will only provide support for old versions of cargodist, provided the infrastructure is there to make that less of a pain than it is now. 23:19:44 <fonsinchen> Other people could do the same with their patches, though. 23:22:14 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: nobody says trunk should be able to load such savegames 23:22:23 *** Elton03575 [~Delphi@201008145180.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #openttd 23:23:19 *** lws1984 [~lws1984@ip68-109-114-129.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:11 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@BAE8b29.bae.pppool.de] has joined #openttd 23:24:49 *** fonsinchen1 [~alve@BAE8b29.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:24 <Aali> you're missing the point 23:25:41 <Eddi|zuHause> yes, because you did not actually mention the point 23:25:55 <Aali> old savegames are as obsolete as the software that created them, _in my opinion_ 23:26:09 <Eddi|zuHause> all you splurt out are subtle implications of a great evil 23:26:22 <Aali> therefore, time spent on making them compatible is time wasted 23:26:27 <OwenS> Aali: The majority of people disagree with you 23:26:55 <Eddi|zuHause> Aali: then why does OpenTTD support loading of 15 year old TTO savegames? 23:26:57 <Aali> I'm aware of that 23:28:21 <Rubidium> then why have loading old savegames at all? 23:28:41 <Eddi|zuHause> and why do people insist on using open standards when they notice that they can't open 10 year old Word documents with their current software? 23:30:01 *** fonsinchen [~alve@BAEda72.bae.pppool.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] 23:30:35 <Eddi|zuHause> what if i get a new operation system and r12160 does not compile anymore? 23:30:48 <Aali> because word documents are usually more important than your little collection of imaginary trains 23:30:51 <Aali> anyway 23:31:05 <Aali> this discussion has been completely derailed 23:31:23 <Eddi|zuHause> maybe i steganographed secrets into my imaginary trains? 23:32:16 <Eddi|zuHause> and in 5 years i urgently need to have access to these blueprints of the nuclear facility? 23:32:48 <Eddi|zuHause> how can you say my savegames are not important? 23:32:53 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77DD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [] 23:33:07 <OwenS> I think he revealed too much information :P 23:33:10 *** Eddi|zuHause [~johekr@p54B77C09.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd 23:33:29 <OwenS> Men in black suits trying to get you? :P 23:34:01 <Eddi|zuHause> they're called "BKA" over here... 23:35:01 <Eddi|zuHause> and they're after filesharemurderterrorists 23:37:22 <Eddi|zuHause> the funny thing is, i had such a nicely timed disconnection in the past already ;) 23:41:19 <OwenS> Even better: My code generator is generating valid cod! :D 23:41:48 <OwenS> (I've just been informed that an invalid operator was invoked :P ) 23:53:47 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B83F80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:54:36 *** tdev [~udev@p508EBECF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: free open source vehicle simulator: http://rigsofrods.com] 23:56:44 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B83F80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 23:57:01 *** tokai|mdlx [~tokai@p54B83F80.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd 23:57:10 *** tokai [~tokai@p54B83F2F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]