Log for #openttd on 8th September 2009:
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00:05:11  <Coco-Banana-Man> pf.yapf.rail_pbs_station_penalty <--- was that the setting for disallowing long trains entering shorter platform?
00:05:45  <Yexo> Coco-Banana-Man: try "list_settings start_of_setting_name" in the openttd console
00:06:29  <Yexo> you probably want pf.yapf.rail_" target="_blank">pf.yapf.rail_shorter_patform_penalty and pf.yapf.rail_" target="_blank">pf.yapf.rail_shorter_patform__per_tile_penalty
00:07:04  <Coco-Banana-Man> oh, yes ^^
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00:09:37  <Coco-Banana-Man> what value do I need to disallow them using a too short platform?
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00:13:05  <Eddi|zuHause> a very high one
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00:13:36  <PeterT> the largest
00:13:44  <PeterT> ^^
00:14:05  <Eddi|zuHause> higher than it could ever be to take a detour to the longer station
00:14:11  <PeterT> yes
00:14:22  <PeterT> think about want a large penalty
00:14:37  <Eddi|zuHause> an occupied long platform has a penalty of 800 per tile
00:15:14  <welshdragon> over 9.000? :P
00:15:15  <Eddi|zuHause> a detour is 100 per tile
00:15:49  <Eddi|zuHause> plus signals, reserved tiles inbetween and stuff
00:20:44  <Coco-Banana-Man> hm, 20000 for "pf.yapf.rail_shorter_platform_penalty" and 2000 "pf.yapf.rail.shorter_platform_per_tile_penalty" seems to be the largest possible values?
00:21:25  <Coco-Banana-Man> ah, 20000 to both I think
00:21:46  <Yexo> use "set setting_name" without a value to get the current/min/max
00:23:41  <Coco-Banana-Man> ok, thank you :)
00:23:54  <petern> who wrote ZeroedMemoryAllocator?
00:23:57  <Coco-Banana-Man> I hope it works now...
00:24:21  <petern> i'm wondering if it's safe to use on classes that have things like std::lists, etc
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00:25:57  <petern> it is only used for 'simple' classes in openttd, which only contain POD members
00:27:12  <Yexo> I'm quite sure it's safe to use, as it only modified the operator new / operator delete functions to use CallocT
00:28:14  <PeterT> my MSYS cant seem to compile the more recent trunks
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00:28:55  <PeterT> i tried compiling the most recent trunk/revision, and it crashes when i try to use "allow building railstations over track"
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00:29:10  <PeterT> and when compiled, I have "OpenTTD r"
00:31:38  <petern> Yexo, yes, i think it is, i just wanted to double check :)
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00:38:31  <Yexo> <PeterT> my MSYS cant seem to compile the more recent trunks <- I have no problems compiling in msys/mingw
00:38:44  <PeterT> gah
00:38:58  <Yexo> I also wonder what you mean by 'and it crashes when i try to use "allow building railstations over track"'
00:39:03  <Yexo> what program crashes?
00:39:07  <PeterT> OpenTTD
00:39:28  <PeterT> gives an error message----> ok---->another error---->crash
00:41:59  <Yexo> what kind of error message?
00:42:18  <PeterT> hold on, I will copy it over to
00:42:44  <PeterT> oh damn it
00:43:06  <PeterT> I just compiled one without the patch and it still compiles as "OpenTTD r"
00:45:19  <glx> you removed some .svn dirs IIRC
00:45:31  <PeterT> this is another
00:45:58  <PeterT> alright, lets try one last time, newest trunkscr
00:47:45  <SmatZ> hmm right
00:47:50  <SmatZ> it crashes for me too
00:48:46  <PeterT> it does?
00:48:51  <SmatZ> yeah
00:49:01  <PeterT> when trying to build station over tracks?
00:49:33  <SmatZ> sometimes
00:50:35  <PeterT> does this command work? cd ~/trunkscr && ./configure && make --bundle
00:51:11  <glx> no
00:51:22  <glx> it's "make bundle"
00:52:43  <PeterT> oh
00:52:53  <PeterT> what does the bundle do?
00:53:12  <glx> prepare a package in bundle dir
00:54:31  <PeterT> .zip?
00:55:26  <glx> .zip is created with "make bundle_zip" and placed in bundles dir
00:56:09  <PeterT> oh
00:56:33  <PeterT> what command gives help with make?
00:56:49  <PeterT> ok, trunk just finished compiling
00:56:54  <PeterT> lets see what it does
00:57:27  <PeterT> it compiled as "OpenTTD r" again
00:58:09  <glx> means svn fails to get the version
01:00:52  <PeterT> how do I fix it?
01:01:11  <glx> what do you get with ./ ?
01:02:39  <PeterT> r               0       r
01:02:57  <glx> do you have svn installed ?
01:03:06  <PeterT> TortoiseSVN
01:03:13  <PeterT> and svn with msys
01:03:22  <PeterT> svn: This client is too old to work with working copy 'src'.  You need
01:03:22  <PeterT> to get a newer Subversion client, or to downgrade this working copy.
01:03:22  <PeterT> See
01:03:22  <PeterT> for details.
01:03:36  <PeterT> it also says that ^, but that hasn't been a problem before
01:03:42  <glx> update your svn client
01:05:03  <PeterT> but I dont use the SVN on msys.
01:05:10  <PeterT> that's why I use tortoisesvn
01:05:15  <glx> you use it when compiling
01:05:15  <PeterT> because of this error
01:05:20  <PeterT> oh?
01:06:05  <glx> doesn't use tortoisesvn
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01:06:48  <PeterT> look at this screenshot for a little bit more info:
01:07:07  <PeterT> Yexo: look at that ^^ for the crash error
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01:12:11  <PeterT> sorry bout that
01:14:07  <PeterT> ok, i'm off for tonight, tell me if you find the problem
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01:27:27  <Yexo> hello Pikka
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01:31:31  <Pikka> hello
01:33:40  <Yexo> This is with default foundations
01:34:32  <Yexo> This is without foundation (for the circled tile), but the ground-sprite has a z-offset of 8 pixels (and is mostly transparant)
01:34:42  <Yexo> basically I don't like either of these solutiosn
01:35:17  <Yexo> do you have ideas on how to solve this?
01:35:37  <glx> can't you use half foundations ?
01:35:51  <Pikka> same way as for industry tiles?  default foundations unless specified otherwise in the grf?
01:36:52  <Yexo> currently I can think of the following: 1. Include the half foundations in the newgrf. 2. Add more return options for callback 0x150 (equivalent of industytile callback 30) so it can also draw halftile foundation
01:37:22  <Pikka> 1
01:38:47  <Yexo> and I'd like a bit more control then callback 3C offers, basically to disallow lowering the north corner of that tile, but allowing all other terraforming
01:39:27  <Pikka> industry tiles action 0D?
01:39:28  <Pikka> erm
01:39:31  <Pikka> property 0D
01:39:34  <Pikka> action 0
01:39:35  <Pikka> ?
01:40:07  <Yexo> that is only per edge, not per corner
01:40:15  <Yexo> at least that's how I read the spec
01:40:52  <Pikka> oh
01:43:26  <Yexo> hmm, I could give property 0D for airport tiles a slightly different meaning
01:43:52  <Yexo> bit 0 = west corner can't be lowered
01:44:02  <Yexo> bit 1 = south corner can't be lowered, etc.
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01:45:15  <Yexo> Pikka: what about ? Should I add information on what's currently implemented or should I create a seperate document for that?
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01:48:03  <Pikka> oh, absolutely @ editing that one. :)
01:48:36  <Pikka> it'll just get confusing if we have multiple spec documents. :)  and it's not like the wiki doesn't keep a history of changes if you want to look back at what it used to say...
01:48:49  <Yexo> ok, just wanted to check :)
01:49:51  <Yexo> another feature I've implemented: before a ground tile is drawn, the 'default' grass sprite is drawn (or desert/snow/rainforest), so you can leave parts of your ground sprite empty to show the underground
01:50:08  <Yexo> is it ok to have this always enabled or should there be a bit in some property for it?
01:52:11  <Pikka> I guess it's okay to always have it enabled
02:01:05  <z-MaTRiX> s?l?l?
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02:09:12  <Yexo> Pikka: the "Allowed Aircraft callback", shouldn't that be a callback for the airport, not for an airport tile?
02:22:02  <Pikka> different aircraft may be buildable in different hangars
02:22:27  <Yexo> in that case maybe specify the hangar num in var10
02:22:40  <Pikka> okay
02:22:47  <Yexo> the main problem with having it for airport tiles is that the related object for airport tiles is an airport, not an aircraft
02:23:11  <Yexo> changing that for a single callback is both inconsistent and a lot more work coding
02:23:39  <Yexo> "11 (w) Noise level" <- I think a byte should be enough
02:27:57  <Yexo> what is a suitable limit for the iteration count?
02:28:08  <Yexo> currently it's 40, but that really is an arbitrary number
02:28:39  <Yexo> is limiting to 15 ok? that way it'll always fit in the high nibble of var18
02:30:01  <Pikka> yeah, should be okay :)
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02:33:10  <Yexo> "Aircraft gain Variable 7C, and an additional property to provide information to the airport state machine. " <- is that really needed?
02:33:13  <Yexo> if so,for what?
02:33:40  <Pikka> the variable 7c, or the additional property?
02:33:50  <Yexo> variable 7C
02:34:10  <Pikka> not for the statemachine, no.  I was hoping to do other things with it. :P
02:34:28  <Yexo> ok :)
02:38:38  <Yexo> wiki page is completely uptodate as for what's implemented and what is not yet
02:43:43  <Pikka> :)
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02:47:49  <Yexo> contains a now complete (including working statemachine) airport
02:47:58  <Yexo> I'll compile a new build tomorrow or so
02:48:04  * Yexo needs sleep
02:49:21  <Yexo> <- source of that grf
02:51:13  <Pikka> :o nice
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05:11:16  <imlost> i think theres a bug with "transfers". i currently have 4 stations. A transfers to B. B transfers to C. C transfer to D(Unloads). For some odd reason, i get negative from 5 to -15. from point B to point C, i see transfer (35,000).
05:12:06  <imlost>  picture to better understand.
05:13:00  <Tefad> imlost: maybe the short run isn't very profitable
05:13:24  <Tefad> the credits from the prior transfer outweight what this one makes
05:13:26  <Tefad> etc.
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05:29:31  <imlost> i took out C and C only holds the item (in this case Coal)
05:29:44  <imlost> i have updated the picture aswell.
05:30:03  <imlost> i still recieve negative funds.
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05:40:10  <imlost>  Here is the sav. mid left side of the map is the location. company: american trans. auth.
05:41:28  <imlost> server im currently on: amron 24/7 (1961-2050)
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05:53:13  <planetmaker> morning
05:53:40  <planetmaker> imlost: I'm pretty sure that your problem is the usual and intended behaviour of transfer orders
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05:58:37  <imlost> i usally get this bug with vehicles but not with trains.
05:59:52  <imlost> what the vehicle did was pick up passengers where i tell it to transfers. takes it back to where its suppose to load then drops them off where they were picked up and i get negative.
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06:02:06  <imlost> maybe B to C then C to D is the problem. Back tracks.
06:05:59  <planetmaker> imlost: yes, that's by design and not a bug
06:06:16  <planetmaker> transfer money assumes the same delivery speed for each leg than the first one
06:07:05  <planetmaker> if you continue with lower speed, less money, sometimes negative will be paid, if already more than the trip is worth was paid to vehicles which transported the carge before.
06:07:16  <planetmaker> ...the overall trip...
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07:16:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17470 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r17460): possible crash when overbuiling rail by station
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07:54:59  <Terkhen> good morning
07:57:11  <Doorslammer> Oh, question about the nightly
07:57:29  <Doorslammer> Erm, which link is the Windows zip?
07:58:48  <planetmaker> the one which has win(dows) in its name
07:59:08  <Doorslammer> Oh, something odd must have just happened
07:59:32  <Doorslammer> Just refreshed and the ton of links have disappeared now, revealing the lone Windows link :/
07:59:33  <planetmaker> actually there are more than one windows build.
07:59:41  <Doorslammer> Very strange
07:59:42  <planetmaker> but naming is quite obvious
08:01:29  <Doorslammer> Oh well, problem solved
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09:47:58  <dihedral> dummdidumm
09:56:56  <petern> you are?
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10:00:59  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, he definitely is ;)
10:04:47  <petern> that's independent verification, that is
10:12:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17471 /trunk/ (10 files in 5 dirs): -Change: when removing a station or waypoint keep the rail unless Ctrl is pressed. This makes the behaviour consistent between the two.
10:14:38  <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds cool
10:14:54  <Eddi|zuHause> now also allow modification of a station while a train is waiting ;)
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10:34:38  <dragonhorseboy> hry
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10:44:23  <Xaroth>  < Eddi|zuHause> now also allow modification of a station while a train is waiting ;) << yes puhlease :o
10:47:57  <dragonhorseboy> hey xaroth and eddi
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11:35:36  <dihedral> well hello Bjarni
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12:22:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17472 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#3182]: industry list was rebuilt too early during industry removal causing the removed industry to be still in the list after removal
12:27:39  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17473 /trunk/src/ (company_base.h company_cmd.cpp graph_gui.cpp): -Codechange: use the post destructor for destroying companies too instead of complicating the graph GUI invalidate code.
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12:32:47  <Bjarni> hello dihedral
12:33:07  <planetmaker> :-O
12:33:12  <planetmaker> Hello Bjarni :-)
12:33:31  <SmatZ> welcome Bjarni
12:34:22  <Bjarni> it's bad that I have to be ill to find time to come here >_<
12:34:44  <planetmaker> -.-
12:35:02  <planetmaker> get well soon, though, despite :-)
12:35:12  <dihedral> no!
12:35:14  <dihedral> dont! :-P
12:35:22  <Bjarni> you want me to die?
12:35:31  <Bjarni> that will not solve anything
12:36:04  <planetmaker> what is the thing which needs solving in the first place? ;-)
12:36:23  <Bjarni> font selection for OSX
12:36:25  <Bjarni> :P
12:36:58  <planetmaker> :-P
12:37:03  <Bjarni> I will be back in 10 minutes (or something)
12:38:12  <Rubidium> I'd say: fix FS#2782 ;)
12:40:04  * Rubidium wonders what illnesses make you want to be on IRC
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13:06:23  <dihedral> the irc deficit syndrome :-P
13:06:28  *** Guest1787 is now known as Mark
13:06:42  <dihedral> "idf" .... aka "i die first"
13:06:47  <dihedral> oh
13:06:48  <dihedral> s
13:06:49  <dihedral> fuck
13:06:55  <dihedral> i die second then :-P
13:07:27  <Bjarni> back
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13:18:17  <Belugas> helloo
13:18:43  <Terkhen> hi Belugas
13:18:43  <Bjarni> hello Belugas
13:21:55  <dihedral> hey ho
13:22:00  <dihedral> pawpaw
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13:32:28  <Belugas> hey hey guys
13:41:12  <Xaroth> lo Belugas
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13:55:32  <mib_y6vk5k> Howdie! OSX 10.5.6 fails with ICU via 'port'. This mostly because config.lib tells --ldflags-libs-only, while port installs icu in /opt/local/lib which is not normally in the lib-search-path
13:56:13  <glx> I had no problems with ICU on 10.4.8
13:56:24  <mib_y6vk5k> and I have with 10.5.6 :p Ghehe :)
13:56:25  <mib_y6vk5k> clean install
13:56:49  <mib_y6vk5k> adding icu-config --ldflags-searchpath
13:56:50  <mib_y6vk5k> fixes
13:57:03  <mib_y6vk5k> +it (darn, typing is hard today)
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13:57:47  <mib_y6vk5k> the rest compiles fine (on a retail system) :) (well, that shouldn't be any real suprise I guess, but okay)
13:57:56  <glx> hmm hidden TB ?
13:58:01  *** mib_y6vk5k is now known as TB
13:58:04  <TB> blame mibbit
13:58:06  <TB> or Eddi|zuHause
13:58:07  <TB> pick one
13:58:20  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, blame me.
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13:58:32  <Rubidium> so... why icu-config doesn't have --ldflags-searchpath?
13:58:33  <TB> either way, bbl, I have a 10.6 system to get functional :)
13:58:39  <Rubidium> s/why/which/
13:58:39  <TB> Rubidium: here it does
13:58:50  <TB> then I don't get your question at all :p
13:59:16  <TB> --ldflags btw does give a bit too much shit :p
13:59:38  <Rubidium> well, given icu's "stability" in API... when did they add that --ldflags-searchpath to icu-config
14:00:03  <TB> I hope at the same time when adding ldflags-libsonly ;)
14:00:31  * glx boots tiger
14:01:01  <TB> either way .. 10.5.8 and 10.6.0 .. bbl :)
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14:05:42  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. tell yourself that often enough and you might believe that. :p
14:09:36  <Belugas> or we might start doubting our current impression :)
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14:26:19  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... what's the easiest way to truncate a file?
14:27:15  <glx> rm ?
14:27:47  <dihedral> echo "" > file
14:27:49  <Eddi|zuHause> i have a file of size A, and want to drop all content behind B
14:28:04  <Eddi|zuHause> so that i have a file of size B now
14:28:18  <Eddi|zuHause> without processing all data until B
14:28:22  <Eddi|zuHause> (big file)
14:29:27  <Rubidium> truncate?
14:29:44  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't have such a command
14:29:56  <glx> oh I know why I don't have problems with icu, it's because libpng or libfreetype adds -L/opt/local/lib
14:30:41  <glx> indeed png and freetype both adds that
14:30:41  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: then use an OS that has them :)
14:30:50  <Rubidium> it's in coreutils
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14:32:07  <Eddi|zuHause> nope...
14:32:30  <Rubidium>
14:33:02  <Rubidium> <- their manpage looks kinda empty
14:34:44  <Rubidium> <- that's a better manual
14:35:29  <Eddi|zuHause> it's definitely not in my coreutils
14:35:40  <Rubidium> get a newer one; it is in mine
14:35:48  <Rubidium> and I am running Debian ;)
14:36:07  <Eddi|zuHause> nor in any other package
14:36:22  <Eddi|zuHause> i have opensuse 11.0
14:36:56  * Rubidium got coreutils 7.5
14:37:04  <Lakie> Isn't 11.1 the latest?
14:37:19  <Lakie> With 11.2 coming out in Nov
14:37:52  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: you need at least coreutils 7.0
14:38:04  <Rubidium> (from 11 months ago)
14:38:19  * Lakie has never had any real problems with opensuse and library / ulity versions unlike when I tried ubuntu...
14:38:48  <Rubidium> poor Eddi. 11.1 still has 6.12
14:38:56  <Eddi|zuHause> i seem to have 6.11
14:40:07  <Eddi|zuHause> so, apparently installing coreutils 7 is not the fastest way
14:41:08  <Rubidium> hexedit $partition_table?
14:42:11  <Eddi|zuHause> i'd like a way that is less likely to horribly screw up :p
14:42:49  <Rubidium> dd if=<file> of=<other_file> bs=1 count=<#bytes>
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14:43:38  <Rubidium> or open in hexedit, go to the location where to truncate and use its truncated feature
14:44:05  <Eddi|zuHause> all hexedits i know try to read the whole file into memory
14:44:07  <Rubidium> tb: <- needed a version bump
14:44:39  <tb> LOL! :)
14:44:49  <tb> so why not .. only add it for 2.2, and allow 2.0 nevertheless?
14:44:54  <glx> [16:29:59] <+glx> oh I know why I don't have problems with icu, it's because libpng or libfreetype adds -L/opt/local/lib
14:44:54  <glx> [16:30:42] <+glx> indeed png and freetype both adds that
14:45:12  <tb> glx: here freetype didn't for sure
14:45:13  <Rubidium> ah well, by now you could've just compiled coreutils 7.5' truncate
14:45:18  <tb> but I don't know who installed freetype and glx :)
14:45:47  <glx> I used macports to get all require libs
14:46:16  <tb> I only installed 'subversion' and 'icu', the rest was already there by then :p
14:46:56  <tb> and indeed, freetype and png are already there .. I guess by xcode
14:47:11  <glx> subversion installs a lot
14:47:45  <tb> yup, but not those 2 for 10.5 at least :)
14:48:08  <glx> I though svn was already installed in 10.5
14:48:14  <Rubidium> tb: not supporting 2.0 is easier and who still uses 2.0? (2.2 is over 7 years old, 2.0 almost 8 years)
14:48:23  <tb> yes: 1.4.4 is :p
14:48:33  <tb> Rubidium: so in that case your patch looks fine ;)
14:48:36  <glx> too old ;)
14:48:52  <tb> libpng is in xcode
14:49:09  <tb> in the 10.5 SDK
14:49:26  <tb> Developer/SDKs/MacOSX10.5.sdk/usr/X11/lib/libpng.dylib <- to be exact
14:49:38  <tb> btw, installing subversion 1.6.4 takes FOR EVER
14:49:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17474 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix: in some cases compilation failed because the search path for ICU wasn't added to the ldflags
14:49:54  <glx> I know :)
14:49:58  <tb> tnx Rubidium
14:50:05  <glx> many packages to build
14:50:18  <tb> and it compiles them all :)
14:50:23  <tb> I got the feeling of Gentoo :p
14:50:44  <tb> but okay .. 10.5.8 also almost up and running
14:51:08  <tb> 10.6.0 doesn't want to boot with my current bootloader .. need to replace it :p
14:52:36  <tb> You can use the same booter partition for both Leopard and the recent Snow Leopard; <- yeah, finally :)
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14:58:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: glx * r17475 /trunk/src/os/windows/ (crashlog_win.cpp -Codechange: show path to crash.log and crash.dmp in crash window. Also tells the user where crash.sav is when saving succeeded.
15:00:22  <Rubidium> woei :)
15:00:46  <Eddi|zuHause> yay. i now successfully installed coreutils 7.0 ;)
15:01:13  <glx> now if they can't find them, we can call them stupid :)
15:08:10  <tb> we do that anyway
15:08:59  <tb> installing zlib .. pff ..
15:09:08  <tb> TAKES LONG! (I love to translate things wrong)
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15:19:37  <planetmaker> hahaha :-) even though in an unusual case the letters, a different colour than usual and abbreviated, it became quite clear who tb might be ;-)
15:19:45  <planetmaker> after only reading 3 lines :-P
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15:37:32  <mib_xjamez> Rubidium: icu-config is fucked here
15:37:35  <mib_xjamez> it doesn't add a space :p
15:37:44  <mib_xjamez> $ icu-config --ldflags-searchpath --ldflags-libsonly -L/opt/local/lib-licui18n -licuuc -licudata
15:37:50  <mib_xjamez> -L/opt/local/lib-licui18n -licuuc -licudata
15:37:54  <mib_xjamez> which of course doesn't compile ;)
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15:37:59  <mib_xjamez> so you need to call icu-config twice :(
15:38:26  <Rubidium> fokkers
15:38:38  <mib_xjamez> I tend to agree
15:39:03  <mib_xjamez> if you btw only compile zlib with 'port', things fail too :p (as zlib doesn't insert search-path)
15:39:11  <mib_xjamez> but okay .. people should just install ICU :p
15:39:19  <mib_xjamez> bbl, going to try to boot to 10.6 now
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15:42:26  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17476 /trunk/config.lib: -Fix (r17475): Some icu-configs have the 'feature' of not adding a space where others do add the space
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15:55:55  <TrueBrain> stupid 10.6 doesn't want to boot
15:56:04  <TrueBrain> a driver crashes p
15:57:56  <TrueBrain> tnx btw Rubidium
16:00:25  <glx> it was 17474 not 17475 ;)
16:03:40  <Rubidium> and you couldn't tell me that when I was writing the commit message?
16:03:55  <TrueBrain> oeh, I know that answer!
16:04:14  <Rubidium> scrap OSX support?
16:04:19  <TrueBrain> no
16:04:31  <TrueBrain> the answer was: no, he couldn't tell you when you were writing the commit message
16:04:33  <TrueBrain> dah! :(
16:05:12  <TrueBrain> k, patched up a few drivers
16:05:16  <TrueBrain> lets try 10.6 again :)
16:11:18  <Bjarni> is there a problem with 10.6 and OpenTTD?
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16:11:39  <Rubidium> it's the eternal problem with OSX and OpenTTD
16:11:55  <Rubidium> doesn't want to be virtualised
16:11:57  <Bjarni> I meant something that's not present in 10.5 :p
16:12:45  <Rubidium> besides them messing with the headers in 10.6?
16:12:52  <Bjarni> ohh
16:12:57  <Bjarni> >_<
16:15:13  <Rubidium> although that's likely solved by messing with the CF and the newer SDK
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16:15:54  <Rubidium> to get a cross-compile to fail in a similar way to so it then can be fixed/hacked around
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16:47:51  <mib_jkbr8c> hmm, I love pizza.
16:47:56  <mib_jkbr8c> That said: 10.6 runs :)
16:48:01  <Rubidium> :)
16:48:04  <mib_jkbr8c> (the 64bit kernel, I believe)
16:48:55  <mib_jkbr8c> lol, installing XCode gives the posibility to install 10.4 SDK, but no longer 10.3.9 SDK :p
16:48:56  <mib_jkbr8c> ghehehehe
16:49:04  <mib_jkbr8c> guess part of the 'Intel only' shit :p
16:49:12  <Rubidium> the 10.4u SDK is used for 10.3.9
16:49:23  <mib_jkbr8c> hmm .. 10.6 really looks very much like 10.5 .. in so many ways :(
16:49:33  <mib_jkbr8c> Rubidium: yeah, but in 10.5 you can explicitly install some 10.3.9 thingy
16:50:20  <Belugas> pizza.. perfect meal for the programmer on the run
16:50:43  <Belugas> coffee.. perfect drink for the programmer on the stale
16:51:17  <Belugas> break.. perfect moment for the programmer on a breakdown
16:51:31  <mib_jkbr8c> crazy .. perfect description for Belugas
16:51:33  * mib_jkbr8c hugs Belugas
16:51:36  <Bjarni> <mib_jkbr8c> lol, installing XCode gives the posibility to install 10.4 SDK, but no longer 10.3.9 SDK :p <-- actually Xcode only contains the "new" SDKs. There is an optional package to install SDKs for older OSes
16:51:36  <Belugas> :)
16:51:51  <Bjarni> you might have to download them for free from Apple though
16:52:03  <Bjarni> iI think you can still get an 10.1 SDK if you like
16:52:32  <mib_jkbr8c> the longer, the better kext I find, the better my system runs :) Now all that remains is my video and my audio .. :p
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16:53:38  <mib_jkbr8c> glx: 10.6 has svn 1.6.2 by default, so that is a lot better :)
16:53:57  <glx> don't forget to update flash ;)
16:54:07  <mib_jkbr8c> there were no udpates .....
16:54:18  <glx> 10.6 comes with an outdated unsecure version
16:54:28  <mib_jkbr8c> nice!
16:54:36  <mib_jkbr8c> png .. zlib .. all default installed
16:55:04  <mib_jkbr8c> no ICU :p
16:57:40  <Rubidium> the real question is: does OSX support languages like Hebrew and Arabic?
16:57:49  <Bjarni> I think so
16:57:51  <Bjarni> checking
16:57:58  <mib_jkbr8c> Rubidium: Korean for sure, I noticed that
16:58:09  <mib_jkbr8c> the 10.5 series on my disk have that language, this 10.6 doesn't .. going to try to install those now :)
16:58:15  <Rubidium> Korean isn't in the same class as Hebrew and Arabic
16:58:35  <mib_jkbr8c> Japanese
16:58:36  <mib_jkbr8c> Chinese
16:58:41  <Rubidium> neither in the same class
16:58:41  <Bjarni> There is a Hebrew keyboard layout
16:58:55  <Rubidium> doesn't list any RTL languages
16:58:56  <Bjarni> Arabic too
16:58:56  <mib_jkbr8c> Rubidium: then: no
16:59:06  <mib_jkbr8c> it isn't in the default installer anyway
17:00:12  <Rubidium> glx: but... OSX is "Highly secure by design"
17:00:24  <mib_jkbr8c> Rubidium: it is in the list of Language selection
17:00:25  <Bjarni> Looks like I can write RTL
17:01:14  <Rubidium> then why a) doesn't it include ICU and b) doesn't it list it on their website?
17:01:34  <Bjarni> ...
17:01:59  <mib_jkbr8c> okay, I am now going to activate a RTL language .. lets see what happens :p
17:02:22  <mib_jkbr8c> oh, 2 processes are still running (ICU install and a new 10.6 install :p)
17:03:11  <mib_jkbr8c> 33 minutes left for the latter .. so in 33 minutes I will be trying that :p
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17:04:50  <Bjarni> <-- read "Bidirectional text"
17:06:56  * Rubidium ponders counting OpenTTD's improvements the Apple way
17:07:59  <Bjarni> I still lack a "this is why YOU should upgrade" text
17:08:05  <Rubidium> where changing a single default means a single improvement
17:08:14  <Rubidium> Bjarni: that's because you're using a PPC mac :)
17:08:29  <Bjarni> actually I sold that one
17:13:41  <mib_jkbr8c> 4 minutes left ..
17:13:44  <mib_jkbr8c> it is like Windows :)
17:13:55  <mib_jkbr8c> well .. in reverse, I guess ;)
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17:21:04  * Belugas is watching over which slr camera to buy. such a boring job... when you think you've got it, there is that little stuff that bugs you to look for another one..
17:21:49  <Belugas> i knwo what i wold like to have, a canon rebel xsi.  but that is the one my wife has.  and she does not want me to have the same :S nor the same brand
17:21:54  <Belugas> like.. that is SOOOOO easy!
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17:25:10  <Wolf01> hello :D
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17:25:26  <mib_6ttome> hmm .. it looks like rtl languages are just shows ltr
17:25:38  <mib_6ttome> the problem is that I can't read what language I really have selected, so I can't be 100% sure if it is rtl
17:25:40  <mib_6ttome> but it looks arabic :p
17:25:47  <mib_6ttome> btw, 10.6 64bit fails to compile OpenTTD :p
17:26:01  <mib_6ttome> :/Volumes/OSX-Shared/OpenTTD/10.6.0/src/strgen/../os/macosx/osx_stdafx.h:30:3: error: #error "Compiling 64 bits without _SQ64 set! (or vice versa)"
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17:27:09  <mib_6ttome> detecting cpu-type... 64 bits .. and that is correct ...
17:27:21  <Eddi|zuHause> arabic looks like this: ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ????? ???????? 23 ?????
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17:27:40  <mib_6ttome> Eddi|zuHause: I know how it looks like .. yet I can't be 100% sure it is arabic I selected, and not some sub-language
17:27:41  <frosch123> [19:23] <Belugas> i knwo what i wold like to have, a canon rebel xsi.  but that is the one my wife has.  and she does not want me to have the same :S nor the same brand <- make her a gift and buy her a new one, then take the old
17:27:45  <mib_6ttome> (which might be ltr, for all I care)
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17:28:36  <mib_6ttome> i686-apple-darwin10-gcc-4.2.1 (GCC) 4.2.1 (Apple Inc. build 5646)
17:29:21  <mib_6ttome> specs show it can produce 64bit
17:29:51  <Eddi|zuHause> (what i pasted is most likely not arabic anyway)
17:29:56  <Eddi|zuHause> (more like farsi)
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17:31:04  <mib_6ttome> for now, lets assume osx_stdafx.h is wrong
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17:31:33  <mib_6ttome> objs/lang/strgen: Mach-O 64-bit executable x86_64 <- clearly the compiler produces 64bit
17:32:20  <Bjarni> Belugas: having the same one could be beneficial. There are two identical phones in my household. They can use the same charger and stuff. The trick is that they have different colours so we can tell them apart
17:32:38  <mib_6ttome> Rubidium: <- I guess that gives something to think about?
17:32:41  <Bjarni> I see no reason why you shouldn't have the same one if you need to have two and you found one you like
17:32:53  <Belugas> hey frosch123: doubtfull she'll be pleased... she just love her current one...
17:33:03  <mib_6ttome> (mostly that seemly the dylib was not static :p)
17:33:13  <mib_6ttome> maybe I should have added --static ...
17:33:42  <Belugas> reason is simple: she does not want that we share the accessoires (read lenses and filters) with the risk of me breaking them
17:33:45  <Belugas> dhu...
17:33:58  <Bjarni> mib_6ttome: so far --static have broken more stuff that it fixed so I haven't used it
17:34:03  <mib_6ttome> <- also special for you Rubidium  :)
17:34:27  <Bjarni> Belugas: so do you have a history of breaking lenses?
17:34:28  <petern> Bjarni, "has"
17:34:42  <mib_6ttome> Bjarni: well, as icu is not on any normal OSX system, I somehow do think there is some kind of static compiling going on .....
17:35:45  <Bjarni> mib_6ttome: you should use the static libs for icu, not static in general
17:35:52  <Bjarni> it shouldn't be too easy :P
17:35:59  <Bjarni> hmm
17:36:16  <Bjarni> or maybe you should try --static and see how it works in your end
17:36:18  <mib_6ttome> Rubidium: 64bit is 1 minute 30 slower in compiling ;)
17:36:32  <mib_6ttome> I rather not check how things are _IN_ my end
17:36:45  <Bjarni> hehe
17:37:08  <mib_6ttome> now lets see what happens when I reboot in 32bit mode ...
17:37:12  <Bjarni> neither would we :P
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17:38:04  <Belugas> Bjarni, no, but she does not want to determine if it is a valid fear or not
17:38:16  <petern> Belugas, let me guess, you're at work?
17:38:19  <Belugas> when yu know the proce of thoses lenses...  you can understand that
17:38:35  <Belugas> at 1:38h pm?  yup
17:38:37  <Belugas> sadly
17:38:38  <Bjarni> heh. I say the ability to share lenses is really a great argument for using the same camera
17:43:04  <TrueBrain> how cool, a 32bit kernel which can run 64bit executables :)
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17:45:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: translators * r17477 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed)
17:45:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: -Update from WebTranslator v3.0:
17:45:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: afrikaans - 36 changes by Maccie123
17:45:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: catalan - 2 changes by arnau
17:45:58  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: simplified_chinese - 1 changes by Gavin
17:46:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: english_US - 115 changes by agenthh
17:46:00  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: french - 2 changes by glx
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17:50:18  <TrueBrain> on a side note: OSX doesn't run with 128 MB RAM :p
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17:51:10  <Bjarni> OSX works with 128 MB RAM, but then you have to use 10.0 or 10.1 or something
17:51:51  <TrueBrain> sometimes ... the inteligence of people still amaze me
17:51:51  <Bjarni> but if you have a CPU, which is new enough to execute Snow Leopard then you should have way more memory than that
17:51:54  <TrueBrain> either way, bubye all :)
17:52:11  <Bjarni> ...
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17:57:01  <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: it's not about the amount of physical ram, it's about defining a maximum size for the VM
17:59:53  *** Zahl [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
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18:04:05  <Belugas> ooouch... Nikon d20... wonderful beast... not so wonderful price :S
18:04:18  *** nicfer [~Usuario@] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
18:05:06  <frosch123> i though you work in the right department for such tasks?
18:05:59  <Eddi|zuHause> :)
18:07:06  <Eddi|zuHause> if name="Belugas" then price/=10;
18:07:40  <Belugas> most of our customers are selling shoes and clothing
18:07:47  <Belugas> NONE are in electronics
18:07:51  <Belugas> nor diving...
18:07:52  <Belugas> nor music
18:07:55  * Belugas cries
18:08:24  <Eddi|zuHause> then buy shoes and resell them ;)
18:08:33  <frosch123> shoes? can you trade the camera with your wife?
18:11:46  <Belugas> buwhahahah!!!!
18:11:49  <Bjarni> lol
18:12:16  <Bjarni> now that's a stereotype to put on somebody's wife, whom you never met :)
18:12:42  <Bjarni> somehow Belugas doesn't strike me as a guy who would marry a shoe fanatic
18:12:55  *** Fuco [~dota.keys@] has joined #openttd
18:13:22  <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: What, he's gay?
18:14:50  <Belugas> yeah, i'm secretely gay and i've married a woman who actually looks like a boy
18:18:40  <Eddi|zuHause> cool, when's the operation?
18:20:40  *** fonsinchen [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
18:24:15  <Belugas> when chicken will grow teeth!
18:26:10  <Yexo>
18:26:43  <Belugas> Norstar00
18:27:12  <Belugas> AlpahBeTaOmega2000
18:27:28  <Belugas> GetTheHellOutOfHereZeor00
18:27:58  <frosch123> the chickens are very fast these days
18:28:28  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... watching a horror movie parody twice is actually fun... you notice some details that you missed
18:28:44  <Eddi|zuHause> like the license plate saying "S-AW 1408"
18:29:10  <frosch123> what move? scary movie IX ?
18:29:30  <Eddi|zuHause> no... pro 7 funny movies
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18:37:21  <Belugas> # Oh Lord, there ain't not heaven!
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18:44:13  <_ln> 19:58:55 <@Rubidium> doesn't list any RTL languages   <--- i suppose that's the list of languages the user interface is available in
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18:48:27  <_ln> hej, Bjarni
18:51:13  <Bjarni> hello _ln
18:52:26  <Bjarni> <Prof_Frink> Bjarni: What, he's gay? <-- are you saying that gay people have no interest in fashion or shoes?
18:52:51  <_ln> Prof_Frink: DON'T ANSWER
18:54:25  *** PeterT [] has joined #openttd
18:54:51  <_ln> Bjarni: du har s?lt din PPC? :(
19:06:55  *** planetmaker is now known as ingo
19:07:04  *** ingo is now known as planetmaker
19:07:35  *** planetmaker is now known as Guest1825
19:07:36  *** Guest1825 is now known as planetmaker
19:12:40  <Belugas> identity crisis ^_^
19:16:48  <Eddi|zuHause> i hate full recompiles
19:17:11  <Eddi|zuHause> especially when they're only because of some osx crap
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19:17:38  <planetmaker> Belugas: new install :-)
19:17:52  <planetmaker> and... inability to get everything right in the  first place.
19:17:57  <planetmaker> And good evening to you ;-)
19:18:52  <_ln> yeah, OS X is the one to blame
19:18:55  <Belugas> samo to you, mister
19:19:38  <planetmaker> _ln: well. maybe. But I guess it's rather system independent as chatzilla behaves the same everywhere.
19:22:29  <zachanima> <blatant copy> alright, I'm going to ask a possibly stupid question. Why are there separate String ID text files (ie. src/lang/esperanto.txt) when they all use (or should use, I think) the same identifiers?
19:22:36  * Belugas kicks the clock big time, frustrated to see it going so slooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
19:23:00  <Belugas> stupid question indeed, zachanima
19:23:06  <Yexo> zachanima: I don't understand your question, all language files use the same identifiers
19:23:12  <planetmaker> zachanima: uhm? Different languages?
19:23:19  <Belugas> they are used for translation
19:23:25  <Belugas> the id is what is commun
19:23:50  <Belugas> and link all languages toguether
19:23:52  <zachanima> oh, wait. That really was a stupid question. My vim buffer wasn't wide enough to show the translations
19:24:03  <zachanima> ignore the above
19:24:06  <zachanima> =D
19:24:07  <Belugas> to late!
19:24:10  <Belugas> too
19:24:30  <zachanima> D=
19:24:51  <glx> next time think a little more before asking ;)
19:26:21  <zachanima> I did think. Quite a bit, indeed. Just not enough to think that more was hidden behind the dark edge of the buffer - after all, all StringIDs were neatly finished and nothing hinted at the lines being longer than that
19:26:28  <zachanima> =(
19:27:09  <planetmaker> except the fact that it wouldn't make sense ;-)
19:27:55  <zachanima> hence my sensing a need to ask. And look, it worked!
19:32:56  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: for the first you probably didn't add the right architectures to the icu lib you compiled. Secondly you're using a 'beta' version of ICU and I haven't been able to cross-compile ICU 4.2 yet. The latter... you're the first to notice that that might need 'the other' cast
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19:33:36  * planetmaker also needs still icu...
19:35:47  <Rubidium> planetmaker: has the libs for the CF; you might need to remove some stuff though
19:36:06  <planetmaker> I need darwin10 ;-)
19:36:18  <planetmaker> and last time I installed icu from the sources which worked fine
19:36:43  <Rubidium> planetmaker: the 9 is just 'bogus'
19:37:07  <planetmaker> :-) Ok, I shall get that then. I guess that has all dependencies of OpenTTD?
19:37:50  <Rubidium> yup, for ppc, 'ppc g5', ppc64, i386 and x64 (or whatever they're called exactly)
19:38:03  <planetmaker> sounds good.
19:38:07  <planetmaker> and like what I want :-)
19:38:34  <planetmaker> adding all that to the 5GB of my ottd folder... I guess it'd double it :-)
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19:40:43  <Rubidium> then bz2 must be awfully impressively good in compressing
19:41:41  <planetmaker> hm... I understand it right, that I can copy the stuff right into the folders like they're named?
19:42:21  <Rubidium> well, for the CF it has to be extracted in /usr/
19:42:38  <planetmaker> and /lib/
19:42:39  <Rubidium> then add /usr/apple-darwin9/bin to the path
19:43:17  <Rubidium> planetmaker: you'll end up with /usr/apple-darwin9/usr/include etc.
19:43:27  <Wolf01> 'night
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19:43:47  <planetmaker> ah, that way you do it.
19:44:06  <Rubidium> at least that's how it's done in the CF to keep it out of the 'normal' gcc
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19:44:45  <planetmaker> making it vice versa sounds the more reasonable approach here :-)
19:46:03  <planetmaker> but if I'm (un)lucky, macports will have half of it already installed while installing mercurial
19:46:32  <Rubidium> the icu in that tarball is a... uhm... very light version; only has 1 of the 4 or so libs
19:47:04  <planetmaker> he...
19:47:06  <Rubidium>
19:48:05  <planetmaker> so the rest is, concerning OpenTTD, quite non-needed...
19:48:52  <planetmaker> at least libiconv is now already done.
19:51:20  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: does fix the cast warning?
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19:52:42  <planetmaker> sounds like the place where I have one, too
19:52:58  <PeterT> !password
19:52:58  *** PeterT was kicked from #openttd by DorpsGek [Wrong channel. Retry in #openttdcoop.]
19:53:10  *** PeterT [] has joined #openttd
19:53:13  <PeterT> gah, i cant read
19:54:39  <planetmaker> do you want that statement commented?
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19:55:04  <Bjarni> planetmaker: no... it's enough to log it for quick reference in the future
19:55:14  <planetmaker> I agree.
19:55:31  <planetmaker> Does Dorpsgek have @quote
19:55:34  <planetmaker> @quote
19:55:40  <planetmaker> hm. no :-)
19:58:15  <Belugas> what happened to you, petern?
19:58:22  <Belugas> oups..
19:58:25  <Belugas> sorry..
19:58:32  <Belugas> what happened to you, PeterT?
19:58:48  <PeterT> what?
19:59:13  *** williham [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
19:59:35  <PeterT> Belugas: what?
20:00:01  *** FR^2 [] has quit [Quit: Der Worte sind genug gewechselt, lasst mich auch endlich Taten sehn!]
20:00:05  <Bjarni> Belugas: there is no reason to write to PeterT. We already know he is unable to read anyway :P
20:00:23  *** Guest1832 [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:00:26  <PeterT> I keep geting #openttd and #openttdcoop mixed up
20:01:46  <Belugas> ho
20:01:56  * Belugas sends you some glasses
20:02:06  <Rubidium> maybe we ought to +q him :)
20:02:21  <Rubidium> well... not we, you... I don't see him anyways :)
20:03:09  <PeterT> what does it matter if I !password, dorpsgek kicks me, I realize what channel I'm in
20:03:53  <PeterT> then I go to the correct one
20:04:40  <Belugas> there is a maximum of 10 kicks.
20:04:46  <Belugas> after that, you're banned
20:05:18  <PeterT> automatically or is that the new rule?
20:05:25  <Yexo> <@Rubidium> maybe we ought to +q him :) <- /me sometimes wishes the forum had that function
20:05:47  <Rubidium> Belugas: then why hasn't he banned yet?
20:05:58  <Belugas> :D
20:06:19  <Belugas> agreed with Yexo
20:06:30  *** Chris_Booth [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
20:10:53  <Eddi|zuHause> i wish the forum had a useful ignore function
20:10:57  *** Chris_Booth [] has joined #openttd
20:11:39  <PeterT> Add Foe
20:12:04  *** th1ngwath is now known as thingwath
20:12:14  <Eddi|zuHause> i know that. and it is useless
20:12:18  <Yexo> PeterT: if you have nothing usefull to say, please don't make a reply at all (for example:
20:12:47  <Eddi|zuHause> brb, screwing up my system. (aka installing kernel)
20:12:57  <Rubidium> Yexo: just report those kinds of posts
20:13:29  <PeterT> Rubidium: I'm fixing it
20:13:41  <PeterT> does rubidium see me when I highlight him?
20:13:43  * Rubidium heards some mods don't like back seat moderation
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20:14:34  <Xaroth> Rubidium: you ignored him didn't you? :P
20:14:36  <Yexo> well, "back seat moderation" is quite vague, and often a small reply from a non-mod helps to keep a topic in shape
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20:19:20  <PeterT> Yexo:
20:19:27  <frosch123> let's do some backseat coding
20:20:02  <Xaroth> PeterT: next time just don't post at all? I recall a certain moment not too long ago giving you that hint.. yet still you do it?
20:20:16  <PeterT> ok, I will delete the post
20:20:31  <Xaroth> you can't 'delete' the post
20:20:34  <Xaroth> just.. don't do it again?
20:21:10  <Xaroth> Making mistakes isn't wrong, not learning from made mistakes, however, is.
20:21:43  <PeterT> ok, I will not do it again
20:22:20  <PeterT> I'm off for now, will be back later
20:22:29  *** Eddi|zuHause [] has joined #openttd
20:22:35  <PeterT> and please, no "THANK GOD HE'S OFF!"
20:22:43  <Xaroth> THANK GOD HE'S OFF!
20:22:46  <Terkhen> :D
20:22:48  <Xaroth> .. you asked for that, really
20:22:49  <planetmaker> thank god
20:22:52  <Yexo> Xaroth: he isn't off yet
20:22:56  <Eddi|zuHause> THANK GOD HE'S OFF!!1!11einself
20:22:57  <Xaroth> Yexo: so?
20:23:22  <Eddi|zuHause> of course the ATI module does not compile for the new kernel!
20:23:27  <Xaroth> heh
20:23:34  <Yexo> nothing really, and he did indeed ask for that :)
20:23:40  <Eddi|zuHause> and i can't update the ati module, because support for my card has been dropped...
20:23:42  <Xaroth> :)
20:23:51  <Xaroth> Eddi|zuHause: sucks to be your kernel then :o
20:23:59  <Xaroth> I sense it getting stabbed some time soon
20:24:24  <Rubidium> Eddi|zuHause: long live ATI/AMD :)
20:24:34  <frosch123> [22:24] <Eddi|zuHause> THANK GOD HE'S OFF!!1!11einself <- hmm, actually does anyone know whether eleventyone originates from lord of the rings, or is it older
20:25:05  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't know... i only heard it in lotr-related contexts
20:25:51  <frosch123> well, i had the book at hand some days ago, and bilbo turns eleventyone at the party
20:26:01  <Eddi|zuHause> but it's very likely that this is an old form of forming numbers
20:26:13  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. that's the place
20:26:34  <Rubidium> <- says eleventy comes from Old English
20:26:47  <Eddi|zuHause> like the french way of saying "eighty" (as "4 times 20")
20:27:17  <Eddi|zuHause> was also used in other places ("6 times 20" being 120, etc.)
20:27:22  <Rubidium> evelenteen is used in the 1600s
20:27:27  <Eddi|zuHause> but that usage disappeared over time
20:27:53  <Eddi|zuHause> Tolkien was a language professor, after all
20:28:12  <Eddi|zuHause> so it makes sense that he refers to such ancient language features
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20:28:24  <Rubidium> yup, fairly sure it's him just using old words
20:28:29  <Eddi|zuHause> like the rohirrim speaking old english
20:29:03  <Eddi|zuHause> some critics say he only wrote the novels so he had a place where his languages could play ;)
20:29:54  <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't actually read the books, nor did i watch the films in english...
20:30:11  <Eddi|zuHause> but some bits and pieces you hear from all sides
20:32:27  <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: i was taught in the university that the rohirrim didn't use any french-originating words (in the books at least).
20:33:16  <Eddi|zuHause> that makes sense, because old-english was spoken before the invasion of 1066
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20:34:27  <Eddi|zuHause> there are a few bits of old english in the movie, and in the sound track
20:34:28  <Rubidium> eleventy comes from old times when there was a base-12 number system
20:34:28  <frosch123> [22:31] <Eddi|zuHause> i didn't actually read the books, nor did i watch the films in english... <- well, it was "einundelfzig", but i generally do not expect translators to come up with such :)
20:34:37  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: smatz * r17478 /trunk/src/ai/api/ai_changelog.hpp: -Document [NoAI]: descibe changes in subsidy logic in AI changelog
20:35:05  <frosch123> [22:35] <Rubidium> eleventy comes from old times when there was a base-12 number system <- so twenty was actually 24 ?
20:35:30  <SmatZ> Terkhen: nice patch ;)
20:35:31  <Rubidium> frosch123: that the etymology dictionary doesn't say
20:35:42  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: no, those are two dozen... it wasn't actually called "twenty" then ;)
20:35:49  *** Fast2 [] has joined #openttd
20:36:06  <Terkhen> thanks :)
20:36:15  <Eddi|zuHause> but yes, the decimal system was not the only system used in history
20:36:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the babylonian system used a base of 60
20:36:37  <Terkhen> I think I got everything right :P
20:36:54  <Xaroth> #openttd is off-topic as usual :P
20:37:09  <Eddi|zuHause> pssst!!! don't jinx it
20:37:10  <frosch123> yeah, i heard of that system, but noone ever knew, whether they had 60 symbols
20:37:23  <Eddi|zuHause> no, they had two symbols, for 10 and 1
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20:37:33  <Eddi|zuHause> the 1 system could be grouped in up to 9
20:37:39  <Eddi|zuHause> and the 10 symbol up to 6
20:37:46  <Chruker> doesnt openttd stand for open-talks-to-dudes?
20:38:16  <Eddi|zuHause> so it would look like "3 times 10 plus 6" for 36
20:38:30  <Terkhen> mmm... no, I didn't
20:39:04  <Belugas> dudes? certainly not
20:39:10  <SmatZ> :(
20:39:22  <Belugas> i hate the use of dudes.
20:39:24  <Chruker> dudettes?
20:39:26  <SmatZ> Terkhen: no compile after applying to trunk
20:39:36  <Belugas> why not friends? pals?
20:39:43  <SmatZ> ah my fault
20:39:57  <Terkhen> ok :)
20:40:06  * SmatZ applies nested_querystring_r17477.diff
20:40:40  <Terkhen> I'm missing a check to set the string to something when there's no more random town names available
20:41:10  <SmatZ> Terkhen: somehow, crash
20:41:15  <Terkhen> :(
20:41:18  <SmatZ> segfault
20:41:37  <Terkhen> okay, I'll get to it :P
20:41:40  <SmatZ>  [07] ./openttd(_ZN15FoundTownWindow14PlaceProc_TownEj+0x14) [0x6b1214]
20:41:42  <Eddi|zuHause> <- babylonian digits
20:42:58  <frosch123> hmm, that raises the question, did they use them as digits, or did they stop counting at 59 :o
20:43:34  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, they used them as digits
20:43:49  * SmatZ wonders how he would write 850
20:44:00  <frosch123> and they could dinstringuish 20 from 610
20:44:10  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, by adding spaces ;)
20:44:16  *** Azrael- [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
20:44:21  <Eddi|zuHause> or using a dot as 0
20:44:29  * Belugas likes the maya system a lot more
20:44:34  <Eddi|zuHause> (which is said to be the origin of the 0 symbol)
20:44:42  <frosch123> SmatZ: <III <
20:45:10  <Eddi|zuHause> frosch123: they even used them to show fractional numbers, but i don't really know how they distinguished them
20:45:29  <SmatZ> frosch123: 13 10 ?
20:45:39  <Eddi|zuHause> i've seen a plate that shows some trigonometric calculation
20:45:39  <frosch123> @calc 13*60 + 10
20:45:39  <DorpsGek> frosch123: 790
20:45:47  <frosch123> oh, i failed :(
20:45:47  <SmatZ> ah
20:46:01  <SmatZ> they used base 60
20:46:06  <SmatZ> interesting
20:46:09  <frosch123> missed a "I"
20:46:30  <frosch123> SmatZ: you don't know the evil 7 ?
20:46:57  <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, 7 is the first number that does not divide 60 ;)
20:47:20  <frosch123> resp. 60 is dividable by any number, except 7 :p
20:47:22  <Chruker> @calc 60/7
20:47:22  <DorpsGek> Chruker: 8.57142857143
20:47:40  <Xaroth> @calc 60/8
20:47:40  <DorpsGek> Xaroth: 7.5
20:47:46  <Xaroth> @calc 60/9
20:47:46  <DorpsGek> Xaroth: 6.66666666667
20:48:18  <frosch123> Xaroth: 2, 2, 3, 5
20:48:27  <Eddi|zuHause> Xaroth: yes, but those are finite fractions in 60-system
20:48:33  <frosch123> @factorise 60
20:48:43  <frosch123> @factorize 60
20:48:56  <frosch123> DorpsGek cannot do the most important tasks :(
20:51:23  <Eddi|zuHause> m9: ``(2)^2*``(3)*``(5)
20:52:11  <SmatZ> frosch123: interesting
20:52:12  <Belugas> mmh... never knew babylonians could do fractions
20:52:16  <Belugas> interesting
20:52:18  <Terkhen> SmatZ: what did you do to make it crash? I recompiled with the attached patches but I don't get any crashes while using it
20:52:39  <SmatZ> Terkhen: several times pressed "Randomize", then placed the town
20:52:41  <SmatZ> boom
20:53:07  <SmatZ> looks reproducible
20:53:24  <SmatZ> I don't even need to randomize new name
20:55:08  <frosch123> night
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20:55:50  <Eddi|zuHause> Belugas: it works like minutes are a fraction of hours, and seconds a fraction of minutes
20:56:12  <Eddi|zuHause> (same way for angles)
20:56:28  <SmatZ> Terkhen: seems you are strdup()ing NULL string
20:56:33  <Belugas> and it's from them that we inherit our time calculations
20:56:36  <SmatZ>
20:56:40  <Terkhen> I can't reproduce it
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20:56:41  <Terkhen> let's see
20:57:03  <SmatZ> maybe windows strdup handles NULL strings
20:57:16  <Eddi|zuHause> the time calculation itself is fairly modern, but it's based on the babylonian system, yes
20:57:57  <Belugas> talking about the time, not the calendar ;)
20:58:49  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, the time as in 22 hours, 58 minutes and 56 seconds
20:59:08  <Terkhen> seems like that... I'll check everything then, it should not be hard to correct
20:59:33  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i was 6 seconds early ;)
21:01:29  <Belugas> night all
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21:07:39  * Terkhen reboots
21:07:40  *** Terkhen [] has quit [Quit: ...]
21:07:41  *** Azrael [] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:07:46  <TrueBrain> [19:57] <Eddi|zuHause> Bjarni: it's not about the amount of physical ram, it's about defining a maximum size for the VM <- thank you for explaining that, I couldn't bring myself to it :)
21:08:11  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, i know that i'm too nice of a person
21:08:27  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't really be a BOFH ;)
21:08:32  <TrueBrain> [21:32] <Rubidium> TrueBrain: for the first you probably didn't add the right architectures to the icu lib you compiled <- on a 64bit (10.6) I tried to run the 10.5 binary; but clearly the icu was not static compiled. 4.2 is btw automaticly via macports
21:09:13  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: I can :)
21:09:15  <TrueBrain> more every day
21:10:08  <TrueBrain> VMWare really can't boot OSX :p
21:11:14  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: all binaries you compile on a 10.6 seem to be 64bit by default. So in this case that is just bad luck :p No idea if you can make macports also compile the i386 version :p
21:11:57  <Eddi|zuHause> hm... i must have installed some font package... everything looks different...
21:12:17  <TrueBrain> hmm .. Local APIC version 0x11, 0x14 or more expected
21:12:19  <TrueBrain> darn :p
21:12:35  <planetmaker> viva la macports? ;-)
21:14:51  <TrueBrain> macports is nice, sort of :)
21:15:05  <TrueBrain> just that it always compiles shit, not so much .. and that it does the latest, not so much :)
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21:16:55  <TrueBrain> what to do to fix that problem .. hmm ..
21:17:37  <Rubidium> replace it with the lib from the compile farm?
21:17:52  <TrueBrain> my APIC problem ;)
21:18:00  <Rubidium> hmm... never mind, that won't work... stupid strict versioning of ICU :(
21:18:03  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: btw, my main problem with ICU was the fact it tried to find the lib in the first place :)
21:18:16  <TrueBrain> I mean ... no normal OSX systems have it installed
21:19:14  <TrueBrain> so I wonder what goes 'wrong' there .. our assumption, or?
21:19:32  <Rubidium> huh?
21:19:40  <TrueBrain> me install OSX retail
21:19:43  <TrueBrain> me no libicu shit
21:19:49  <TrueBrain> me start openttd, openttd tries to find libicu
21:19:52  <TrueBrain> error
21:20:11  <Rubidium> uhm... we compile lib into universal binary (at least on the CF)
21:20:25  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: lib, yes, but do we add that lib?
21:20:44  <TrueBrain> else we need to staticly compile it into OpenTTD, right?
21:20:59  <Rubidium> yes, which is exactly what we do for OSX
21:21:08  <TrueBrain> and that is what I mean, yes
21:21:16  *** worldemar [~woldemar@] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
21:21:39  <Rubidium> for all libs except iconv, because OSX made (AFAIR) a mess of stuff
21:21:55  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: and that is exactly what I was trying to say
21:22:04  <TrueBrain> by default OpenTTD doesn't do it, so I was wondering if I should have added static or what ever
21:22:17  <TrueBrain> of course a certain person immediatly told me I shouldn't, but clearly the CF does :)
21:23:15  <Rubidium> (and has been for as long as I remember)
21:23:50  <Eddi|zuHause> "a certain person"... i wonder who could be meant :p
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21:25:52  <Rubidium> anyhow, does do the trick
21:26:28  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: was just avoiding a HL :)
21:26:51  <Eddi|zuHause> yes, of course you were ;)
21:27:05  <Eddi|zuHause> "Ein Schelm, wer b?ses dabei denkt."
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21:34:02  <_ln> Rubidium's patch doesn't make any semantical difference, does it?
21:35:16  <planetmaker> Rubidium: here it fixes the compile warning
21:37:15  <TrueBrain> I can't find anywhere why my ACPI version would be wrong .. and why 10.6 complains, but 10.5 not (while both need 0x14 :p)
21:38:17  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: I have to reboot to 10.6 to check that
21:38:23  <TrueBrain> first trying out this stupid vbox :p
21:38:29  <TrueBrain> but if planetmaker says it fixes it .. I believe him ;)
21:44:09  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17479 /trunk/src/os/unix/unix.cpp: -Fix: silence compile warning that's only triggered when you're using a broken iconv.
21:44:36  <planetmaker> :-D
21:44:50  * planetmaker breaks together :-P
21:45:09  <planetmaker> and wishes all a good night.
21:45:25  <TrueBrain> night planetmaker
21:45:58  <Eddi|zuHause> gnarf... the open source driver has no acceleration to speak of...
21:46:13  <Rubidium> which of the two?
21:46:15  <Eddi|zuHause> i can't even watch video/tv in full screen
21:46:28  <Eddi|zuHause> hm. the radeon one, i believe
21:47:19  <TrueBrain> what OS?
21:47:31  <Rubidium> linux-ish
21:47:41  <TrueBrain> I can watch 1080i non-accelerated fullscreen just fine :)
21:47:52  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: with what driver exactly?
21:47:57  <TrueBrain> only under windows I needed a real codec :)
21:48:08  <Rubidium> and are you talking about an ATI video card?
21:48:17  <TrueBrain> I am talking about a non-accelerated video-card :p
21:48:25  <TrueBrain> nowedays I got the dri to work :)
21:48:29  <TrueBrain> Intel something
21:48:46  <TrueBrain> I just meant to say my CPU does all the hard work :p
21:49:04  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't exactly have a decent CPU either ;)
21:49:16  <Rubidium> that explains... the Intel drivers are generally good, whereas the ATI drivers are *all* crap in one way or another
21:49:20  <TrueBrain> is it me, or are those recaptcha less and less useable?
21:49:34  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: very true :) But even with the VESA driver loaded my movie playback looks good :)
21:49:46  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: why? I haven't seen spam on the wiki for a *long* time
21:49:49  <Eddi|zuHause> well, the more intelligent machines get, the less efficient CAPTCHAs will be
21:50:02  <TrueBrain> as human I have to press 'new' between 10 and 15 times, before I can enter the right values
21:50:30  <Eddi|zuHause> we should switch to the kitten-captchas ;)
21:51:35  <TrueBrain> STUPID LOCAL APIC! GIVE ME VERSION 0x14! Pff :(
21:54:26  <Eddi|zuHause> <- i wonder if that does any good
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21:56:00  <TrueBrain> <- that would do you very good
21:56:17  <TrueBrain> (warning: random pick from
21:56:24  <Eddi|zuHause> yes. but i'll need a whole new system anyway
21:56:40  <Eddi|zuHause> i don't even have PCIe
21:56:49  <TrueBrain> that is why this is about PCI :)
21:56:53  <TrueBrain> and I am pretty sure you do have that :p
21:57:50  <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'll try that patch first ;)
21:58:10  <TrueBrain>         case 0x03: /* version */
21:58:12  <TrueBrain>             val = 0x11 | ((APIC_LVT_NB - 1) << 16); /* version 0x11 */
21:58:16  <TrueBrain> hardcoded return of version 0x11 .. hmm ..
21:58:28  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: impressive
21:58:37  <TrueBrain> what is?
21:58:41  <SmatZ> I thought last PCI card was some GF5200
21:58:57  <TrueBrain> oh, I have no idea what I gave him in that link :p
21:59:02  <SmatZ> I have 4000MX and it was one of last sold here
21:59:07  <TrueBrain> just browsed a random PCI nVidia chipset :p
21:59:20  <TrueBrain> +with
21:59:24  <SmatZ> :)
21:59:45  <TrueBrain> so ... 10.6 doesn't want to boot with APIC 0x11 .. what to do .. what to do ...
21:59:56  <SmatZ> apart from MATROXes > 500Euro
22:00:58  <_ln> Eddi|zuHause: have you considered buying a Mac?
22:01:18  <Eddi|zuHause> over my dead body.
22:01:29  <SmatZ> hmm found "PowerColor HD2400 Pro 256MB , PCI" for ~30Euro
22:01:30  <TrueBrain> cool, can I have it then?
22:02:43  <Eddi|zuHause> you want my dead body?
22:03:02  <TrueBrain> no, the mac you own by then
22:03:05  <Rubidium> TrueBrain: figure out what's the difference between 0x11 and 0x14, implement whatever is missing and change to 0x14
22:03:13  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: no thank you :)
22:03:22  <TrueBrain> isn't the APIC version in the DSDT?
22:04:22  <SmatZ> TrueBrain: I suppose you had a look into BIOS
22:04:27  <Eddi|zuHause> SmatZ: it's a fairly abundant list
22:04:34  <SmatZ> like, I can change APIC version in BIOS
22:04:45  <TrueBrain> this is VirtualBox .. everything is preset :(
22:04:46  <SmatZ> Eddi|zuHause: nice :)
22:05:37  <TrueBrain> but okay, I can load the DSDT of my real machine into virtualbox ..
22:05:59  <TrueBrain> nope, APIC version is not in the DSDT :)
22:06:26  <TrueBrain> k, time to boot to OSX, and see if I can get my videocard to work :)
22:06:29  <TrueBrain> have a good night all
22:07:39  <Rubidium> can't really find APIC being defined to any value in my dsdt
22:08:04  <Terkhen> SmatZ: I have uploaded a new version, it should work now
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22:22:31  <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i still can't compile fglrx with the patch above...
22:27:26  <_ln> Guten 8.
22:27:47  <TrueBrain> Rubidium: yeah, APIC is not defined via DSDT .. which is too bad, as I can fake thatone :)
22:27:53  <Prof_Frink> _ln: Too busy playing with some big jugs anyway
22:28:09  <TrueBrain> on a fun fact: installing 10.4.8, with 10.2 SDK :p
22:28:24  <TrueBrain> no idea if that will ever boot
22:29:18  *** Progman [] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
22:29:59  <TrueBrain> just downloaded an IRC client, which immediatly told me the trial was over :p
22:30:14  <Xaroth> lol
22:30:29  <TrueBrain> but I love my NX connection, now at least I just can IRC normally :p
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22:33:09  <TrueBrain> permission errors all over the place ... sigh .. sucks ...
22:34:11  <TinoDidriksen> Trying to Hackintosh in VirtualBox ?
22:35:12  <TrueBrain> we are trying that for ages
22:35:17  <TrueBrain> still no luck .. on simple things, mostly
22:35:32  <TinoDidriksen> I don't recall anyone ever getting VirtualBox to work, but VMWare Server has been reported to work.
22:35:51  <TrueBrain> no worries, we know
22:36:23  <TinoDidriksen> Kinda intrigued, 'cause I've been trying to hackintosh my laptop for the past few days, with no luck...
22:36:45  <TrueBrain> I have it running on my local system, no problem
22:37:01  <TrueBrain> the biggest problem of all is getting an OSX on it for the first time .. after that, things are no real issue anymore
22:38:04  <TrueBrain> so try any and all osx86 versions out there :) Leo4all, iDeneb, iPC, ....
22:38:10  <TinoDidriksen> Getting it to boot is my issue. Installing is not an issue, but no matter which magic drivers I choose it panics...
22:38:17  <TrueBrain> 10.5.5 where possible, 10.5.6 if you need to
22:38:27  <TrueBrain> panics on what?
22:38:33  <TrueBrain> (the fact it detects your drive is 90% of the work :p)
22:38:43  <TrueBrain> panics before or after [S0 S1 ...]
22:39:10  <TrueBrain> and what CPU?
22:39:32  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17480 /trunk/src/aircraft_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r17405): fast aircraft could get stuck flyin gin circles trying to reach a certain point
22:39:42  <TrueBrain> Sep  9 00:39:03 osxs-Mac-Pro pkgExtractor[16940]: BomFileError 13: Permission denied - /Volumes/OSX-10.4.8//Library/Preferences/SystemConfiguration/ <- lovely installers ....
22:42:02  <TinoDidriksen> Intel C2D. I tried iPC, which would not install (DVD rebooted over and over), but iDeneb installs just fine, then stops at "MAC Framework successfully initialized, using 16384 buffer headers and 4096 clister IO buffer heads"
22:42:18  <TinoDidriksen> +spelling
22:42:38  <TrueBrain> hehe, a classic point, yes
22:42:44  <TrueBrain> IDeneb 1.5.5 or 1.5.6?
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22:42:56  <TrueBrain> (big difference, 1.5.6 needs DSDT patching, 1.5.5 is a bit easier)
22:43:36  <TinoDidriksen> iDeneb 1.6, OS X 10.5.8, with DSDT patch included.
22:43:46  <TrueBrain> try 1.5.5 :)
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22:44:07  <TrueBrain> if you once can get an OSX running, you can try a vanilla OSX install (you want this, believe me :p)
22:44:23  <TrueBrain> but you need HFS+ access to do that right :)
22:44:57  <TinoDidriksen> I just want XCode to test code and make some dmg distributions.
22:44:59  <TrueBrain> also, try booting with cpus=1, that fixed my initial boot problem :) (included the cpus=1 fix from iDeneb to make it permanent :p)
22:45:11  <TrueBrain> that is all we want it for too ;)
22:45:17  <TrueBrain> yet still no luck in virtualbox :(
22:45:20  <TinoDidriksen> I tried cpus=1 -v -f -x and all those tricks...
22:45:31  <TrueBrain> -f is bullshit, OSX does that kind of automatic
22:46:07  <TrueBrain> Sep  9 00:42:15 osxs-Mac-Pro[961]: Can't create kext cache under / - owner not root. <- what? Owner of / not root? :p
22:46:28  <TinoDidriksen> That should be easy to fix...
22:47:28  <TrueBrain> whoho, 1 hit on google for my error ...
22:47:41  <TrueBrain> Sep  9 00:42:16 osxs-Mac-Pro[961]: Can't load /Volumes/OSX-Shared/VoodooHDA/trunk/tmp/VoodooHDA.kext - validation problems.
22:47:43  <TrueBrain> thatone
22:48:50  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: rubidium * r17481 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r16998): in cases where the northern most tile of an airport-to-build didn't touch the station you wanted it to join, but another part did, it wouldn't join the airport to the existing station
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22:54:23  <TrueBrain> I hate it when people make a forum post: just download the source and compile it for 64bit!
22:54:26  <TrueBrain> when that completely fails :p
23:00:30  <TrueBrain> haha, iTunes: do you want to accept? DECLINE
23:00:34  <TrueBrain> restart, it never asked me again :p
23:01:19  <TrueBrain> yippie, audio works :)
23:01:21  <TinoDidriksen> Interesting legal loophole...
23:01:54  <TrueBrain> I wonder if it also works over my fiber port
23:05:40  <CIA-1> OpenTTD: yexo * r17482 /trunk/src/airport_movement.h: -Fix (r17405): helicopters were not able to land anymore on the intercontinental airport
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23:14:51  <TrueBrain> now .. video ...
23:14:54  <TrueBrain> much more important :p
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23:20:34  <Eddi|zuHause> so... now i have seriously hacked this damn thing around any error...
23:20:42  <Eddi|zuHause> this can't possibly be running :p
23:20:47  <TrueBrain> hehe
23:21:11  <Eddi|zuHause> fglrx: Unknown symbol flush_tlb_page
23:22:17  <TrueBrain> bah bah bah, the video-driver for my card is only available in 32bit ...
23:23:14  <TrueBrain> so, lets boot the 32bit kernel, see where that brings me
23:23:31  <TrueBrain> Eddi|zuHause: it is looking good! :p
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